of bills . i will presentation of bills. i will allow those who wish to leave to do so . do so. as quickly and quietly as possible . possible. >> resignation speech. there in parliament. hugely anticipated laying down the gauntlet. really the strongest comment at the end . it is now or never. the conservative party faces electoral oblivion if we introduce another bill that does not work. a five point plan. thank you for joining not work. a five point plan. thank you forjoining me. i'm thank you for joining me. i'm martin daubney. here thank you for joining me. i'm martin daubney . here between thank you for joining me. i'm martin daubney. here between 3 and 6 pm. cutting into the show live now braverman basically breaking ranks. rishi sunak

avoided facing the speech . he avoided facing the speech. he claimed to have a g7 avoided facing the speech. he claimed to have a 67 meeting on israel and hamas. how convenient . some might say the tories seem to be manoeuvring , that's for to be manoeuvring, that's for sure. meetings later this evening of the common sense group , the european research group, the european research group and the new conservatives. >> rumours of no confidence letters being giving in given in also on rishi sunak are we seeing the beginnings of an implosion of a tory revolt now .7 implosion of a tory revolt now.7 >> if implosion of a tory revolt now? >> if that happens, some might say about time . say about time. >> well, i'm joined now by a political editor, christopher hope. >> chris, dramatic stuff there . >> chris, dramatic stuff there. chris from suella braverman in chamber no punches being pulled whatsoever . for whatsoever. for >> yes, martin, totally. that was the end. there was what we were waiting for from suella braverman. she says that it's now or never. the tory party

faces electoral oblivion in a matter of months. if we introduce yet another bill which is destined to fail, do we fight for sovereignty or let our party die? that is extraordinary. remarks there from the former home secretary from on the floor of the house of commons. i know that senior figures in the home office agree with her that if this new rwanda bill, which we are expecting within 24 hours, doesn't do the job and ensure that these people arriving here illegally can be transferred to rwanda for to be processed, then it will be a real problem here. and this is why i think that it is now a moment of choice here for many in the tory party . for many in the tory party. early we heard we heard from kemi badenoch gave quite a strong statement there about transgender issues . and the transgender issues. and the feeling isn't her that that these so—called possible leaders from the right wing of the party are starting to show the mps what they've got in them. i think that suella braverman of those speeches is perfectly timed because we are expecting

this rwanda bill to drop very soon. and when that happens, tory mps from the erg, the common sense group, new conservatives , have formed a conservatives, have formed a group called the star chamber to go over it line by line for many, it's a test on whether rigid sunak understands the need to deal with this issue or is just merely going to pay lip service to he a service to it. he talks a big game. sunak , notably on the game. mr sunak, notably on the visit to dubai last week. cop 28. when i was lucky enough to be with him. can he deliver, though, on the ground? can he actually take on the left in his party or concerned about ignonng party or concerned about ignoring elements of the ignoring elements of echr the rumours overnight are that he's been got at by david cameron, lord cameron of chipping norton, the new foreign secretary . he the new foreign secretary. he told yesterday that told the lords yesterday that when he was at pm he was able to get ban on on, on. i'm get round a ban on on, on. i'm sorry, get round giving the echr saying you must give votes to prisoners by merely ignoring it. eventually and he won. the feeling is that maybe mr cameron's moderate view of

conservatism has now got at mr sunak , and that's why the right sunak, and that's why the right wing of the party is so concerned. they've got no one at the top of government now. they would say, representing representing interests. would say, representing repr

year after year. >> many come from safe countries, many are not genuine refugees , but economic migrants. refugees, but economic migrants. >> all pay a criminal gang. thousands of pounds to break into britain . strong words. but into britain. strong words. but these aren't extreme views. these are actually, what, millions and millions of people agree with. braverman is making agree with. braverman is making a play here. is she for a future leadership campaign ? leadership campaign? >> oh, no question. but she is staying on topic to be fair to her. there was talk earlier from the mp allies told me they expected it could be a geoffrey howe moment, the moment when, of course, geoffrey howe in 1990. lichen. lichen and margaret thatcher to a cricket captain who broke the bat of a batsman going out to face hostile deliveries on the cricket square. well, that hasn't happened. it's it's been happened. it's been it's been merely ms brave and making very clear her position on the price that the pm needs to enact to get her support. the pm may not worry about that. he's on a g7 phone call right now with world leaders discussing matters of

state big, important matters of state. the war, the war in in gaza, the battle with hamas , gaza, the battle with hamas, with israel. that's the world stage. that's what the pm should do. that's the day job. but this is the this is the suella braverman reminding him that he's got to take some tough choices will he have the choices here. will he have the will the almost the will he have the almost the cojones to take on the left in his cabinet, to take on those who worry about cocking a snook at the european courts and saying, no, we are going to have sovereignty here. if someone arrives here legally, we'll take them to rwanda for processing because the tories tell me they think a chance here because the tories tell me they thidrive a chance here because the tories tell me they thidrive the a chance here because the tories tell me they thidrive the party's chance here because the tories tell me they thidrive the party's polls:e here because the tories tell me they thidrive the party's polls upiere to drive the party's polls up against labour because labour's answer is pretty weak. they simply say that if they became into government they would then work more closely with foreign immigration staff and officers and do more deals to try and bnng and do more deals to try and bring down migration. that way . bring down migration. that way. certainly on the legal side, it's less clear what they do on the net. net net legal net

immigration side. but so there's a chance here if it's going to be immigration election as be an immigration election as richard , the reform party richard tice, the reform party leader chancellor , if leader says, the chancellor, if the win back those the tories to win back those people reform, if people going towards reform, if mrs. de sunak takes the measures which are necessary to get this over the line. but this bill is published hinckley it was not discussed yesterday in cabinet. i that as of this morning i know that as of this morning it signed off yet, so we it wasn't signed off yet, so we should be seeing it at some point. as i say , within the next point. as i say, within the next 24 hours. and what that says will be so important, i think , will be so important, i think, to and his party's to mr sunaks and his party's immediate future . immediate future. >> and chris, a clear torpedo being fired around. again, this word not withstanding and this, of course , is about the ability of course, is about the ability of course, is about the ability of uk law to be sovereign and supreme over the echr and we'll have to wait the details of what of what this bill is. but suella is clearly indicating here that this bill will still fall foul of the same old allies , the same of the same old allies, the same old enemies. and she talked here

in very strong terms about the insanities that the public would scarcely not believe . foreign scarcely not believe. foreign terrorists. we can't deport because of their human rights terrorists. we have to let back in because of their human rights, foreign rapists and paedophiles who should have been removed but are released back into our communities and their reoffend . yes, because of their reoffend. yes, because of their human rights. this is strong stuff. it's very spicy . but i stuff. it's very spicy. but i say once again , chris, millions say once again, chris, millions of people will agree with this and millions of people will be saying, this is what i voted for . this is the kind of conservative party i want . conservative party i want. >> well, the vote in 2016 was for control of our borders and our laws. and this is this is a test almost for this tory government . but there's no government. but there's no question there's a feeling at the very top of the home office have it on very good authority. they feel that rishi sunak the team in downing don't team in 10 downing street don't understand what they're seeing day to they coming up day to day. they are coming up against people . the immigration

against people. the immigration issue , criminals, the rest of issue, criminals, the rest of it. they are seeing it in in plain light of day what many communities feel . they feel communities feel. they feel they're at one with those feelings that you describe . feelings that you describe. they're communities they're in communities feeling a feeling public feeling that their public services are being they can't get on, get access to them because of the numbers of migrants . so the home office migrants. so the home office feel they can see it. why can't they with this they be stronger with this legislation because feeling they be stronger with this le itslation because feeling they be stronger with this le it won't because feeling they be stronger with this le it won't be because feeling they be stronger with this le it won't be as:ause feeling they be stronger with this le it won't be as strong feeling they be stronger with this le it won't be as strong asfeeling is it won't be as strong as acquired reports overnight. it's been quite a lot acquired reports overnight. it's beerthat quite a lot acquired reports overnight. it's beerthat could quite a lot acquired reports overnight. it's beerthat could lead quite a lot acquired reports overnight. it's beerthat could lead to ite a lot acquired reports overnight. it's beerthat could lead to someot and that could lead to some resignations. jenrick , resignations. robert jenrick, which immigration minister which the immigration minister has clear he's has made very clear that he's keen tough line on this. if keen on a tough line on this. if it doesn't happen , he may be it doesn't happen, he may be resigning. and i think that's why such big week for the why it's such a big week for the tory get this right in tory party to get this right in terms of helping the party's lamentable poll ratings and also taking action to finally deliver on this rwanda plan. since it was first announced a year, five months and 21 days ago. martin around 64,000 people have arrived across our southern border by small boats. i think

three home secretary secretaries have been to rwanda, and that's it. and that is not a successful policy. the idea is not working. labour say they would repeal it if they win power in the election now expected towards the end of next year. so the government has got a chance here to say to voters next year, vote for us, stick with this plan. it might work because labour will repeal there's a chance might work because labour will repeabut there's a chance might work because labour will repeabut ifhere's a chance might work because labour will repea but if this s a chance might work because labour will repeabut if this ifa chance might work because labour will repea but if this if thisance might work because labour will repeabut if this if this plan here, but if this if this plan is holed below the waterline, when it's published imminently , when it's published imminently, there'll be real problems for there'll be real problems for the tory party and indeed for mr sunak himself. >> and chris, there's an inference here, a clear inference here, a clear inference of the labour party mentioned what the labour party do in her speech. suella said violent criminals pulled off deportation flights with the help of labour mps. i should add , free to wander our streets and commit further horrific crimes, including murder. she is, of course referring to that flight in 2020 with criminals bound for jamaica and indeed sir keir starmer signed that letter. and did diane abbott and many other

labour top brass, do you think an actual fact this could help rishi in a way, because clearly here we have the tory party stand for this. the labour party are standing dead against it. we're the only people who can get a grip on this. do you think in a strange sense, suella braverman may have just done the tories a huge boost at well , she tories a huge boost at well, she would say she is, and indeed may be the case that if her warnings listen to it could help them in the polls. >> i mean, the tory party, the tories are still languishing 20 points behind the polls, haven't budged. i mean, despite rishi sunak, he did really well in pre pmqs. prime minister's questions today taking on keir starmer, some good jokes about starmer's claims to accept elements of thatcherism in the weekend newspapers . and i thought also newspapers. and i thought also i was lucky enough to be with him in cop 28 last week. he has got a real energy about him. he's had his weetabix in that sense. i mean, he's defending the government's record. he's got a good, good story to tell. he

thinks on foreign policy and the good, good story to tell. he thinkl on foreign policy and the good, good story to tell. he thinkl justoreign policy and the good, good story to tell. he thinkl just ireign policy and the good, good story to tell. he thinkl just i jusli policy and the good, good story to tell. he thinkl just i just don'ty and the good, good story to tell. he thinkl just i just don't think the like. i just i just don't think that that passion is ever really comes properly for comes across properly for voters. it's not really seen enough , and that help enough, and that might help them. think also with them. but i think also with passion action and they passion comes action and they haven't yet seen the action required to deliver on this promise. on stopping the boats. there still is the government's ambition is to stop them. the first boat, the first planes take off to rwanda in the spring, may next year, spring, in may next year, we assume them, there's way assume them, but there's no way this happen before the this can happen before the election, the volume of election, given the volume of numbers across. the numbers coming across. the hoping it might break the model, but they won't stop the boats by the election. but they've the next election. but they've got story tell than got a better story to tell than the labour party, and that's why i think it's so important. there's here to there's a real chance here to try on what they're try and deliver on what they're saying. cynical, saying. people are so cynical, aren't with aren't they, out there with politicians always saying one thing delivering ? thing and then never delivering? well, chance they well, here's a chance they can do but people like suella do it. but people like suella braverman and at home braverman and others at the home office feel it's a chance that may well be begging , and may well be going begging, and that's be regretted for the that's to be regretted for the tory . that's to be regretted for the tonwell, . hope suella ended

>> well, chris hope suella ended on a typical flourish. it is now or never the conservative party faces electoral oblivion in a matter of months. if we introduce yet another bill destined to fail. introduce yet another bill destined to fail . do we fight destined to fail. do we fight for sovereignty or let our party die ? chris hope, thanks for die? chris hope, thanks for joining us on this. this story. a huge moment in domestic politics, will of course, be returning throughout the show. but the other big story today, of course, is boris johnson giving evidence at the covid inquiry i'm joined now by pip tomson who's been there for us all day. pip, good afternoon to you. thanks for joining all day. pip, good afternoon to you. thanks forjoining us on you. thanks for joining us on the show. a dramatic day, but bofis the show. a dramatic day, but boris , i've watched it from the boris, i've watched it from the start . it seems to be start. it seems to be a masterclass in him saying absolutely nothing . okay. absolutely nothing. okay. >> very good afternoon to you, martin. well, this afternoon , he martin. well, this afternoon, he has been explaining his decision to order the country to lock down on monday , march the 23rd, down on monday, march the 23rd, 2020. he kept saying repeatedly

that we'd run out of time and we'd run out of wriggle room. he said the thing as in the virus was too big and the curve was too aggressive. he said that locking down was our best shot at protecting the nhs and saving lives . what was interesting was lives. what was interesting was lady hallett, the chair of the inquiry . she, she she actually inquiry. she, she she actually intervened at this point and she asked boris johnson if he ever considered the argument against lockdown . this is what he had to lockdown. this is what he had to say. there >> i did . and i mean , i didn't. >> i did. and i mean, i didn't. i i'm afraid to say at that stage i gave it pretty short shrift because i thought that my job was to protect . shrift because i thought that my job was to protect. human shrift because i thought that my job was to protect . human life. job was to protect. human life. and that is the number one duty of government . and i thought of government. and i thought that if the nhs was overwhelmed , that if the nhs was overwhelmed, then the risk of truly tragic

scenes in the uk of the kind we'd seen in in lombardy was very real and thank heavens that did not happen . thanks to the did not happen. thanks to the amazing work of the of the nhs. and as i said at the right at the beginning, hundreds of thousands of people. but i felt i had to, to do what i could to give them the best possible chance and i had no other i had no other tool literally nothing else . else. >> the inquiry's lawyer , hugo >> the inquiry's lawyer, hugo keith, kc, also asked mr johnson, is if the government had acted sooner and woken up to the true nature of the crisis earlier and had posed impose social distancing measures earlier , then could that stay at earlier, then could that stay at home order have been avoided and bofis home order have been avoided and boris johnson replied and said , boris johnson replied and said, i doubt it, but i don't know. i'm not certain we would have been able to have avoided extreme action by acting a few days earlier. it's been quite a

long day for him so far. he's due to give evidence again tomorrow. what was interesting ring a little earlier as well was that he did appear to be getting emotional when he talked about the pandemic, the many, many lives that were lost in 2020. just watch this and see what you think . what you think. >> we have to be realistic about 2020, the whole year , that 2020, the whole year, that a whole tragic, tragic year. we did lockdown . but then it did lockdown. but then it bounced back after we'd unlocked i >> -- >> the inquiry has just resumed after a 15 minute break. we can take you to it now . exactly take you to it now. exactly >> exacerbated the economic impact of the lockdown in your . impact of the lockdown in your. in in your communications with your colleagues on this subject .

your colleagues on this subject. did you in july say this. your colleagues on this subject. did you in july say this . in did you in july say this. in july 2021? looking back to 2020? yes. i arguably cocked it up last time with finger wagging to everyone to get on and do some work. do you recall saying that expressing regret a year later that you had got the work from home? if you can, but go to work if you can't work from home? message wrong . message wrong. >> i think that it was a very difficult time as we came out of the whole thing was unbelievably difficult. but as we came out of lockdown in the in the summer of early summer of 2020, for the first time, that some areas remained under a lot of restrictive measures , i felt restrictive measures, i felt strongly that the people who made such a sacrifice to get the r down that we must try to allow

people some some freedom. and i wanted i wanted the you know, the benefits of the exertion, as it were, the effort to get the r down to be felt throughout the country and for people to be able to do things again. and i think it's probably true that i wanted to see people back in the back at work and i think that psychologically and emotionally people a lot of people were in a very different place and they felt that they'd seen a terrifying pandemic. they were still very apprehensive and they didn't want government lecturing them about about what to do. and so that's probably what i'm getting at, was the speed of the release very hard to gauge, very in. >> sir patrick vallance dowries 273901 at page 66 he describes you as being very bullish and wanting everything to be released sooner and more extremely than we would by we he

means the scientists and then . means the scientists and then. on page 92 . in means the scientists and then. on page 92. in the means the scientists and then. on page 92 . in the context of a on page 92. in the context of a meeting with the prime minister, actually having a discussion about letting it rip 6 to 4 on the 12th of july, prime minister still wants to push opening too fast. still wants to push opening too fast . and if you just pause fast. and if you just pause there , then on 94215, which is a there, then on 94215, which is a whatsapp group extract between yourself and mr hancock in the top team group on the 15th of july, you say, i was calling because i'm very worried about winter. we've gone fast on releasing lockdown. i'm getting no traction on doing what's needed to protect the nhs cases and track and trace is starting to rise . of course, that's dated to rise. of course, that's dated the 15th of july, by which time

the 15th of july, by which time the nhs track and trace system was up and running. so may we presume from from these messages that it was very difficult to decide whether you were going too fast , whether you were too fast, whether you were wanting to reopen , let it rip, wanting to reopen, let it rip, to use your words or whether or not you, in fact you were going too fast and then becoming overly concerned or concerned about the winter and the rise in cases. yes >> well, so first of all, on this , the whatsapps with with this, the whatsapps with with matt here, i think you've got to remember that this is a cabinet minister also thinking about his budget . but minister also thinking about his budget. but if you read that carefully, you can see that what he's really saying is he needs more money, which is what all secretaries of rightly do secretaries of state rightly do in their in their messages. so that's part the conversation . that's part of the conversation. charleton clearly , the issue charleton but clearly, the issue was that i think i always realised and certainly nobody

disagreed with me, that when we came out of, of lockdown, when we when we went into lockdown as , as patrick said, in, in that first important press conference on on march the 12th, you can pushit on on march the 12th, you can push it down. but but with an unimmunised population, it will bounce back. and so i always knew that throughout the summer we were basically in remission , we were basically in remission, as it were, and that the thing would come back and it was it was a very it was a very, very difficult judgement to make. >> you said that the last whatsapp in the top ten group there the page or on the there on the page or on the screen may be reflective of a secretary of state being concerned with money. isn't that your wording have we misread your wording or have we misread this? this is you saying i'm very worried about winter and him saying what's the evidence on rising new cases or is it the other way around? we can't tell

from the you . from the you. >> i, i may be totally wrong about this, but i read that as being matt matt in the green to me. all right. saying we can take a risk on reducing lockdown or we can take a risk on not building up the nhs this winter. and what he's really saying like all of state all good secretaries of state for is give us the money for health, is give us the money and i that's what i understood partly. but also what he's saying is the case is arising at and that's you know and that was no particular surprise to me the question in in in in the in the in the summer autumn is what's the what's the tactics, the objective is to protect the nhs, save lives . what's what do we save lives. what's what do we have ? do we have any new tactics have? do we have any new tactics now ? now? >> and it was apparent to the government and to you personally, of course, that cases started going up at a

relatively early stage. they plateaued out. of course, they came right down after the lockdown. then they plateaued for a while, but they started to go for a while, but they started to 9° up for a while, but they started to go up in july. so well in advance, in fact, of the eat out to help out eat out to help out scheme well in advance of september . october. september. october. >> that's exactly right. and contrary to that, our our hopes in the early phases certainly by the end of may, beginning of june, there is the a very small percentage of the population has antibodies. so you're looking at antibodies. so you're looking at a huge number of people who are still potential covid victims . still potential covid victims. and that's very, very difficult . and that's very, very difficult. >> and in fact, the percentage of the population that had been immunised by virtue of infection was very, very low. it was around about 6 or 7. that's exactly right. all right. and that, of course, was therefore

dispositive of the arguments about herd immunity. correct because, in fact, very few people were immunised by virtue of infection. you've got it as it happened. all right. now now, to divert to a completely different subject, the devolved administrations , please. in your administrations, please. in your statement, you say that the interests of the devolved administrations did not always augn administrations did not always align with england's or the united kingdom's interests . united kingdom's interests. that's an inevitable part of a devolved system . yes. was that devolved system. yes. was that a nod to the fact that that the united kingdom were constrained by public health legislation and the coronavirus act? public health act controlled diseases act, but on the ground, this pubuc act, but on the ground, this public health crisis was a devolved issue because it was for each devolved nation to determine its own course in terms of the public health measures it took . did it matter? measures it took. did it matter? ultimately there has been a great deal of evidence given

about differences of approach in terms of presentation debates about whether or . not about whether or. not politically one or more devolved administrations took a different route for or took a different route for or took a different route for or took a different route for political reasons. also, whether or not when they attended meetings, they were simply informed of what the position would be. rather than being encouraged to genuinely debate the decision overall . did debate the decision overall. did the constituent parts of the united kingdom generally work well in the face of this crisis? >> yes. i hope what many of your respondents will also have said is that overwhelmingly the collaboration was excellent and the governments of the of the da's , you know , there was far, da's, you know, there was far, far more that united us and divide us. i know that sounds trite, but it's got to be said. and it was really a big uk

effort and the country really pulled together. i was making a much more limited point and it is no disrespect to the first minister of scotland or anybody else . chief minister, northern else. chief minister, northern ireland, wales . they under ireland, wales. they under understandably were looking to talk directly to their own electorates. they were going to be times when they they differed from , from the main uk from, from the main uk government message and i thought that was sometimes at risk of being confusing at a time when we really needed to land messages simply and i could see and people were endlessly playing back, oh, but scotland says this , england, england says says this, england, england says this. you know, wales is doing a firebreak, a circuit breaker, and so you didn't , i think and so you didn't, i think perhaps help yourself, though ,

perhaps help yourself, though, mr johnson, in this debate, because emails between mr cummings and helen macnamara show that mr cummings said the pm's view and mine on cobra, this was in the context of debate about who should attend cobra is there hopeless as decision making entities and actively cause trouble for communications because some attendees at cobra and mr cummings had in mind the devolved administrations leak immediately afterwards . immediately afterwards. >> was that your view ? >> was that your view? >> was that your view? >> i think that sometimes that was the case and that was a that was, in my view, a problem . was, in my view, a problem. perhaps we could have found a better way to manage it. but it that was that was certainly one of the problems . of the problems. >> this the system was . and >> this the system was. and understood not to be working

particularly well in terms of the government's structures, the systemic structures and the top and in relation to the relationship, the da's because there was the series of the four ministerial implementation groups between march and may, and they were then done away with and replaced by covid and covid 0h, with and replaced by covid and covid oh, you directed following advice from your cabinet secretary that there should be a new rhythm of meetings . the 9 new rhythm of meetings. the 9 am. meetings to which the da's a.m. meetings to which the da's were not invited . and you you were not invited. and you you directed that consideration should be given to using something called the joint ministerial committee . but the ministerial committee. but the joint ministerial committee was never used. was it? for the purposes of meeting with the da's ? da's? >> i think that the so first of all, i think the cobras had the

problems that we've we've we've identified. there was there was a problem with with messaging . a problem with with messaging. and i think that was a serious problem . i think that . in in problem. i think that. in in future there has to be some way of having a joined up a uk pandemic response and how you how you get to that. i've got an open mind. i see a lot of my colleagues are against the civil contingencies act. i am happy to defer to them on that point. i wonder whether you could amend the 1984 public health act. so as to have an exemption for pandemics. it just seems to me that something needs to be done to fix this. whilst taking account of the legitimate concerns of the da's, their legitimate desire to be involved and to and to and to contribute . and to and to and to contribute. but we need to find a better way

to get a single message . to get a single message. >> there was a body called the review of intergovernmental relations , i think it reported relations, i think it reported in january 22nd. so just at the end of the pandemic. in january 22nd. so just at the end of the pandemic . yes, just end of the pandemic. yes, just the end of the crisis, which recommended that the prime minister of the united kingdom should meet with the heads of the devolved governments on a regular basis. but that came later , either during the crisis , later, either during the crisis, as you ordered, that michael gove , the chancellor of the gove, the chancellor of the duchy of lancaster, should chair regular meetings with the devolved administrations . but devolved administrations. but but there were difficulties , but there were difficulties, whether not in setting up that structure, it took time for those meetings to be arranged. do you recall that? >> i don't recall the delay, but i do remember asking michael to do it. i think he was ideally placed to do it. i think he did a very, very good job of working with the with the da's that didn't stop some of the

raggedness that i've i've talked about. raggedness that i've i've talked about . if i had my raggedness that i've i've talked about. if i had my time again with hindsight, i think it's an area where i would have tried, even though it was i was very pushed for time. i would have tried to spend more time with with the da's and really try to bnng with the da's and really try to bring them with me. but i i'm afraid it may just be that i'm overstating my ability to get a consensus. i think there was always the risk of divergence. well you may with respect be misrepresenting your true views because in your statement you said it is optically wrong in the first place for the united kingdom prime minister to hold regular meetings with the other da first ministers. well, i think that's i think i happen to think that's i think i happen to think that's i think i happen to think that's also true . i, think that's also true. i, i think that's also true. i, i think they can't they can't both be right. well, i think that it well, sometimes you can do things that you think are , you

things that you think are, you know, constitutionally a bit weird if it will help the general cause of fighting the pandemic . you know i let me let pandemic. you know i let me let me summarise. i think that there's an issue. it's not a huge , huge issue. nothing like huge, huge issue. nothing like as big as many of the other issues that . the inquiry needs issues that. the inquiry needs to look at. but we do need to sort it out. we need to we need a better way to get a unified message for the uk. >> mrjohnson message for the uk. >> mr johnson you message for the uk. >> mrjohnson you didn't try >> mr johnson you didn't try very hard to use your words to bnng very hard to use your words to bring the da's with you because as you took the view that optically it was wrong to be seen to be meeting with their first ministers because it might look like a kind of, to use your words, mini eu . you ask the words, mini eu. you ask the chancellor duchy of lancaster, michael gove , to chair the

michael gove, to chair the meetings instead , and you made meetings instead, and you made it quite plain to the first minister that the devolved administration that you had you had taken the view that they were prone to leaking from the cobra meetings and also prone to taking decisions in this public health crisis for nakedly political reasons . political reasons. >> well, i'm not certain that i said that to them in so many words, but maybe , maybe, maybe, words, but maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe i maybe you've got some evidence that i, i did. i certainly thought that that was a risk. and from time to time, |, a risk. and from time to time, i, i, i felt that the coherence of the uk message was being undermined. and there's got to be a way to fix it. i thought michael did an excellent job. i sometimes wonder whether i could have done more in that respect

myself, but i frankly , i doubt it. >> there were obviously divergences of approach both in relation to the substantive responses to the crisis . tears, responses to the crisis. tears, firebreak as circuit breakers and what was done in relation to schools and so on. and there were also differences, were there not, in relation to public communications . so the message communications. so the message is messaging across the united kingdom wasn't always pointing in the same direction and ultimately did it matter that there were those differences of approach epidemiologically , or approach epidemiologically, or that in terms of communication in you were not all singing from the same hymn sheet ? the same hymn sheet? >> i think it did matter. i think that clarity in and unity of message was was very important . of message was was very important. data of message was was very important . data data of message was was very important. data data . important. data data. >> plainly the united kingdom government was was where it could taking decisions in relation to what should be happening in each of the four

nafions happening in each of the four nations of the united kingdom. as i say , not directly in public as i say, not directly in public health terms, but but obviously it was trying to apply an allied unanimous approach . did you feel unanimous approach. did you feel that you, as the prime minister of the united kingdom government, had sufficient data , government, had sufficient data, sufficient scientific advice as to what the position was on the ground in each of the other nations? epidemiologically >> well, i think that when the pandemic broke out, we were short of data about many things. we didn't even know the number. i think i said in my statement, we didn't even know the number of the and it took of beds in the nhs. and it took a long time relevant a long time to extract relevant data . data. >> there was a general continuing concern raised with you because ms sturgeon wrote to you because ms sturgeon wrote to you in september 2020 about whether or not the devolved administrations were receiving enough financial support. but in

order to be able to enable them to put into place the public health measures that they had ordained, in essence , because ordained, in essence, because they are devolved nations , they they are devolved nations, they don't have access to the same levers of fiscal power as the united kingdom government. how was resolved or did was that issue resolved or did it continue throughout the crisis ? crisis? >> i think that the issue of financial support was obviously allied with the issue of or of divergence of approach, because clearly we if it was open to a da to take a for instance, a much more precautionary approach or or to say that they wanted to do x, y, z policy, that we would be more expensive with them , be more expensive with them, then that was something that we were going to the whole of the uk exchequer was going to have

to cover . now that it wasn't to cover. now that it wasn't that. to cover. now that it wasn't that . i wanted unity of message that. i wanted unity of message for that reason, but that was that was certainly an extra complication in his statement . complication in his statement. >> michael gove says in the early stages of the response, there were occasions when insufficient notice was given to the devolved administrations of decisions that were likely to be taken and in witness taken and in her witness statement, sturgeon says, statement, ms sturgeon says, i believe both that communication should have been better and more importantly, that the devolved administration should have been integral that decision integral to that decision making. you accept that making. would you accept that perhaps with hindsight that the decision making process , insofar decision making process, insofar as it involved the da, was not as it involved the da, was not as good as it might have been ? as good as it might have been? >> i think . some some form of >> i think. some some form of integrated decision making that doesn't leak is what you're after .

after. >> local government . it would >> local government. it would seem that . in march 2020 there seem that. in march 2020 there was a deliberate decision within downing street not to invite the mayor of london to meetings . mayor of london to meetings. until the 16th of march. he says that he made repeated requests to attend and he requested to attend cobra on the second, ninth and 12th of march. but was not permitted to do so . did you not permitted to do so. did you know that or do you agree with that ? that? >> certainly london was very, very much in the in the forefront in the early stages of the pandemic. and i know that the pandemic. and i know that the mayor of london was repeatedly consulted by my advisers in in number 10. i'm sure that there was a lot of traffic between them and sadiq khan.i traffic between them and sadiq khan. i think that he was ianed khan. i think that he was invited to a meeting on the from memory on the 16th. i may have that wrong, but i certainly

spoke to him pretty early on. but as you said, right at the end of the last session , we end of the last session, we began by thinking we might do london first, but then we drop that idea . that idea. >> the mayor of london was not ianed >> the mayor of london was not invited to the government's formal crisis machinery cobra until after the first national measures had been imposed by the united kingdom government. is that correct? >> and that is because we didn't in the end do london first measures. and there was some sensitivity about . other metro sensitivity about. other metro mayors. i think, in relation to the metro mayors , save on one the metro mayors, save on one occasion the 12th of october when the mayor of liverpool, andy rotherham, attended no metro mayor was invited to attend cobra at any time . attend cobra at any time. >> right, right. the

attend cobra at any time. >> right, right . the evidence >> right, right. the evidence from sadiq khan , from mr burnham from sadiq khan, from mr burnham and mr rotherham is to the effect that there was generally insufficient information given to local leaders. and in the comments that mr johnson of the local restrictions in the summer of 2020 and of course the tier system in october and december of 2020, that that was a very significant failing was it not? >> well , i first of all, significant failing was it not? >> well, i first of all, i'm grateful to miss rotherham, to andy burnham, to mr khan , all andy burnham, to mr khan, all the all the all the mayors for the all the all the mayors for the work that they they did and the work that they they did and the leadership they they gave to their own communities. the leadership they they gave to their own communities . and, you their own communities. and, you know, you talk about andy burnham , you know, there were burnham, you know, there were there were parts of the country that barely came out of measures for the whole of the year.

manchester exactly. and they had a very, very tough time. and . we a very, very tough time. and. we did our best to offer support. and to engage with them and to help . but . and to engage with them and to help . but. some of the help. but. some of the negotiations , as i'm sure, will negotiations, as i'm sure, will come to , were were extremely come to, were were extremely difficult . difficult. >> one of sir patrick vallance's entries appears to suggest that in relation to manchester and mr burnham , a covid s meeting which burnham, a covid s meeting which you were present openly , drew you were present openly, drew a distinction between the support . distinction between the support. and measures that would be given to manchester for as opposed to liverpool for nakedly political reasons . would you agree ? reasons. would you agree? >> did that happen ? are you >> did that happen? are you saying that i'm not i'm not

certain that there there's a conservative mayor of liverpool. >> it's a view was >> no, it's that a view was taken upon the nature of the local in manchester local leadership in manchester and a view was taken about how cooperate it was. i see. and cooperate if it was. i see. and therefore manchester would be treated differently to liverpool i >>i -- >> i don't remember that at all. i think that liverpool certainly was the people there were the people who were heroic in trying to get mass testing going and again, the there was terrific hardship because of the of the lockdowns, but they made a they were vital to the to the campaign to get mass testing going . going. >> another separate issue, please the consideration of vulnerable and at risk groups and you'll appreciate mrjohnson and you'll appreciate mr johnson that on account of your position as prime minister many of these issues would only, perhaps fleetingly have come to your

attention and of course, only at the highest possible level, and therefore there is a distinct restriction on the detail into which we can go in debating them . helen macnamara in her statement, makes this general point that across the advice and discussion in the cabinet office and in the heart of government, there was a striking absence of humanity or perspective about how people or families actually lived . and her sense was that lived. and her sense was that the group of people in your inner katrien in the cabinet were a most homogenous group of people, and were taking decisions that probably called for a much broader representation across society . representation across society. would you agree with that general proposition ? general proposition? >> i, i think that there is some force in that. and i mean , but force in that. and i mean, but so some force in the description

of the of the people in in and around those meetings that some of those key times i don't accept what helen says about the measures that we that we took but it is certainly and she said some things i think and i pay tribute to helen. she did an amazing job. but i think that it is not right or fair to say that polly kc was conceived and dnven polly kc was conceived and driven forward without regard to the particular needs of women. for instance, the, the a huge amount of thought went into the question of hidden harms of domestic violence . there was the domestic violence. there was the access to abortion to drugs as necessary . the we put money into necessary. the we put money into who had a domestic violence bill as you may remember, in i think march 2020, which goes through

the commons very fast. we put money into it and it was we set up a helpline. we have system whereby victims of domestic violence can . can identify violence can. can identify themselves without risk of exposure by going to certain premises . we were very , very premises. we were very, very alive and i was personally very alive and i was personally very alive to this issue. so i was i was i was surprised when she when she said that, because i know how much she she cared about it . and i believe that we about it. and i believe that we did a lot on that on on the broader question about about leaving aside the issue of gendenl leaving aside the issue of gender, i think there was a and this needs flipping the other way round now i think sometimes we didn't think hard enough about about the impact of lockdown on different groups and

sometimes frankly it was easy or much easier . sometimes frankly it was easy or much easier. for people with professional jobs to sit out the lockdown than it was for others , lockdown than it was for others, whether in the hospitality sector or or whatever. and they and a lot of people who , you and a lot of people who, you know , were on lower incomes know, were on lower incomes really had a pretty a pretty tough time of it. and so and i think that it was vital to focus on on those people and to do everything we could to help them through the lockdown, but also to realise that lockdown was hitting those groups particularly hard . and for me, particularly hard. and for me, that was a reason why you had to be so , so careful about going be so, so careful about going back into an national lockdown

in in october, november. >> it's necessary to distinguish between september the first lockdown and the second one. of course, melody asked you earlier to what extent did you consider the economic arguments against lockdown? and you said you had to give them short shrift. may we take it that on account of the speed with which the government act that government had to act in that week of 16th and of week of the 16th and 23rd of march, little march, relatively little consideration was given by the government to the impact of lockdown . similarly, i think lockdown. similarly, i think a huge amount of consideration. >> i think a huge amount of consideration was given by the government to the impact of both lockdowns. thought about government to the impact of both lo extensively thought about government to the impact of both lo extensively , thought about government to the impact of both loextensively , i thought about government to the impact of both loextensively , i think)ught about government to the impact of both loextensively , i think not|t about government to the impact of both lo extensively , i think not the out it extensively, i think not the general impact . general impact. >> mr johnson general impact. >> mrjohnson but by reference to your earlier answer. to the needs of individual sectorial groups , for example, by no means groups, for example, by no means limited to black people or or bame sectors, it's so it wasn't something that was at the

forefront of the government's consideration in that week . consideration in that week. >> so both lockdowns were at the forefront of our consideration in in their diverse impact act, but also covid was a subject of consideration because of what appeared to be its diverse impact and as i'm sure you know, we commissioned a lot of work into the way covid seemed at first to be striking particular communities harder, but that wasn't apparent till april at the 16th and the 23rd of march. >> and there was great consideration given, of course , consideration given, of course, to shielding and to clinical impact. yes, but there was relatively little , if any, relatively little, if any, consideration given to social impact upon the disproportionate , passionate way in which a national lockdown might impose itself or might impact upon various sectors in society. that's correct, isn't it ? where

that's correct, isn't it? where in the where in the notes and the minutes that you've been shown to, is there open debate about the likely impact effect on the vulnerable and at risk of the national lockdown that was imposed on the 23rd of march? >> i think that you can find. well, i couldn't point you off the top of my head to any particular text, but what i can tell you is that the whole time we were thinking, look who gets hit when you close non—essential retail and you close hospitality and you you stop people moving around the relatively affluent professional classes are probably going to be better placed to cope with this than than than others. and you will find that there are large numbers of black minority ethnic community members represented in

those sectors , those who were those sectors, those who were particularly disadvantaged by the by the lockdowns . yes. and the by the lockdowns. yes. and so, you know , whether or not you so, you know, whether or not you can find any mention of this in the in the in the material that you've looked at. i know that this was one thing that we were thinking about it as a as an as a particular reason for being anxious about the effect of lockdowns. >> there was a general consideration at a generic level of the impact of lockdown. there was a clinical and financial consideration of those who needed to shield . there was a needed to shield. there was a broad understanding that if the r rate could be brought below one and prevalence reduce that, that would be for the greater benefit of all. but it wasn't until april . and the first few until april. and the first few weeks of may that the information started to come to light. that that members of the

black and minority ethnic community were suffering more, that the lockdown was having a greater and disproportion impact upon them. that's correct, isn't it? >> i don't remember exactly when it came to light, but it was intuitively obvious that it was going to happen . and it was one going to happen. and it was one of the reasons that we were i was very cautious about going back into a national lockdown . back into a national lockdown. >> that's later, of course, at and to be fair, you as one of the reasons you put it, the other way around is one of the reasons i was keen to see if we could get moving again. and you instituted review . heard instituted a review. we've heard evidence kemi badenoch evidence that that kemi badenoch mp carried out a very extensive review over a number of years. i think over two years there were perhaps maybe a year there were four quarterly reports right? you were i think , less you were i think, less sympathetic to the needs of those persons suffering from long term sequelae, that is to say, suffering from the condition known as long covid.

you you question for quite some time whether or not that condition truly existed. and you equated it to gulf war syndrome. repeat heatedly. is that fair ? repeat heatedly. is that fair? >> not really, no . but can i can >> not really, no. but can i can i just come back on, on, on, on that and say , first of all, the that and say, first of all, the words that i scribbled in the margins of submissions about long covid obviously been now publicised and i'm sure that they have caused and hurt and offence to a huge numbers of people who who do indeed suffer from that syndrome. and i, i regret very much using that language and should have thought about , about the, the about, about the, the possibility of future a future publication and i regret it very, very much. and what i was trying to do was to get to the

to the heart of the matter, get to the heart of the matter, get to the heart of the matter, get to the truth of the matter. and to the truth of the matter. and to try to get my officials to explain to me exactly what the syndrome was . and it actually syndrome was. and it actually took quite a long time before i got a proper paper on it. i think it wasn't until i'd get this wrong, but i think it wasn't until until 2021, summer of 2021, before i actually got a paper on on long covid. but i did, as you say, ask repeatedly to get some information . and to get some information. and that was so i could explain to people what we were doing and, and, and what the, the issue was. mr >> johnson the point is that in october of 2020, you scribbled these remarks on a on a report to you about the funding from

the nih for into long covid survey . you continued to make survey. you continued to make disparaging references to whether or not this was gulf war syndrome stuff. in february 20th one inches the context of an update given to you on the 21st of february. and then on still later in june 21st. so nine months or so later, you were still questioning whether or not long covid was to be equated with gulf war syndrome. so it's not that it's not that the challenge against you is you you took a position on long covid in the absence of a proper clinical understanding or advice from your advisors. it is that not withstanding repeated and the repeated placing of reports before you, you carried on questioning long covid until many months later.

>> well, i'm not certain that's correct, because i don't think i got a full explanation of or a full paper on it for until until the summer of the full paper was on the 1st of june 2021. >> that's correct . and you >> that's correct. and you responded by saying thanks. so it's not exactly gulf war syndrome . and that was your take syndrome. and that was your take on the long covid condition. >> but let's sorry, it's no disrespect to long covid patients. and i saw in the victim impact videos some of the victims of long covid. and i can imagine what a dreadful thing it is. but there are also with gulf war syndrome , many people who war syndrome, many people who have terrible symptoms for a very long time. there are also people who think they may be suffering. i think this is the accepted from something associated with the gulf war,

but who are not, in fact, suffering from something associated with the gulf war. so what i was trying to say was . what i was trying to say was. where is the where is the line? and please can someone explain to me what this this is because i was getting , you know, i was getting, you know, anecdotal accounts of people who were suffering from it and i wanted to be able to say what we understood. it to be and what we were doing about it and what we were doing about it and what we were doing about it and what we were doing about it is fighting covid because the way to stop long covid is to is to stop covid. >> one final topic in relation to the broad overarching issue of, of disparity . you indeed of, of disparity. you indeed commissioned , as you've said, mr commissioned, as you've said, mr johnson, the report by kemi badenoch , who led a significant badenoch, who led a significant cross—government exercise on the disproportion impact of covid on ethnic minorities. i think following a report from public

health england in june 2020, do you happen to know why it was that that report , that work done that that report, that work done by kemi badenoch did not cover disabled persons? it's a technical question. >> it's a it's a very not clear why it didn't. it's a very good question. mr keith. i will make sure that the inquiry gets an answer, but i can't i can't give it to you off the top of my head i >> maybe then now turn back to it doesn't mean that the interests of the disabled were not looked at in some other indeed format, and i'm sure they were now returning to the chronology and having just for the moment put put to one side those overarching but general issues . mark sedwill . you said issues. mark sedwill. you said earlier that . mark now lord earlier that. mark now lord sedwill suggested he should move on and you agreed could we have?

well, no, i don't think we need to put it up in his witness statement. martin reynolds, your private secretary, talks about the meeting that he had arranged for you to meet with mark sedwill. yes. on the 14th of may. and your diary shows a meeting with him on the 14th of may. i identified a slot on the 14th of may for me to run the prime minister through the findings of the review. you'll recall that helen macnamara had produced report and mark produced a report and mark sedwill a sedwill had himself produced a report . the prime sedwill had himself produced a report. the prime minister decided instead to use this slot for a 1 to 1 conversation with mark sedwill, where he told him that he had lost confidence in him . so which is it? is it that him. so which is it? is it that you lost confidence in him? which is the question i asked you earlier, or is it that mark sedwill told you he wanted to move on and you agreed? well mark sedwill did an outstanding job for this country for a long time, and he was a very

distinguished . private distinguished. private secretary, i think, at the home office . office. >> he was a national security adviser. he has done everything and i was and remain hugely grateful to his service. he wanted to move on the evidence from . from. >> okay. and that is, of course , >> okay. and that is, of course, is boris johnson at the covid inquiry. thanks for joining is boris johnson at the covid inquiry. thanks forjoining me. martin daubney on gb news here till 6:00. and i'm joined now by gb news senior political commentator nigel nelson. nigel, good afternoon to you. so people joining us at this hour who haven't been watching the covid inquiry with boris johnson all day, like as sad political obsessives , the day started with obsessives, the day started with an apology . there were jeers for an apology. there were jeers for people removed from the gallery. there were tears later on as bofis there were tears later on as boris broke down. what were your standout moments from boris's evidence today? nigel well, i think one of the one of the things i was surprised about was

his honesty. >> some might say uncharacteristic honesty . he uncharacteristic honesty. he seems to accept that he didn't do enough early on. he didn't realise the serious ness of the pandemic that was about to hit us. he seems to accept that his government was pretty dysfunctional all along the way. some standout things there. also, the difficult job that he had to face. and he described it as an appalling balancing act between the needs of public health and the necessities for the economy . and he was the one the economy. and he was the one who finally had to make those decisions. so i think that what he's done today is given us some kind of context of what it's like to be a prime minister in the middle of a national emergency . emergency. >> and he did say a standout line for me was the scenes in italy rattled me. i should have acted sooner. i should have twigged sooner. and of course, there nigel, he's referring to there nigel, he's referring to the lockdown in italy. we remember that from the early days of covid, where they locked

people in their houses in italy , people in their houses in italy, it became worldwide news and the world was watching. but the world was watching. but the world sat on its hands. and bofis world sat on its hands. and boris conceding today, maybe he should have acted sooner . should have acted sooner. >> yes, that's right. i mean, the point basically is he admits all the way along the line that he made mistakes . all the way along the line that he made mistakes. i all the way along the line that he made mistakes . i mean, we can he made mistakes. i mean, we can all remember some of that horrific footage we were seeing in italian hospitals as the whole began to break down whole system began to break down there. and obviously , you could there. and obviously, you could you could see that this was coming our way. and certainly bofis coming our way. and certainly boris johnson says he should have actually accepted that much earlier and then done things that would have saved more lives. so i think that the that one of the important things and certainly the standout for me is his admission of all the mistakes that were made. that's what this inquiry is about, is to ensure that the same mistakes aren't made again . aren't made again. >> okay. thank you, for nigel, that quick update when it comes back, live now to the covid inquiry for boris johnson's

remaining evidence. nigel will be joining us later on throughout the show. but let's for to boris johnson for now go back to boris johnson at covid inquiry and at the covid inquiry and i decided on balance that at a very difficult time for the country , i'd rather have country, i'd rather have a number 10 where people challenge goodideas number 10 where people challenge good ideas and where people brought new ideas and where people felt free to say things. >> then a number 10 where everybody he tried to pretend that all was continuously well because all was patently not well with the country and we needed to we needed to fix it. >> so may we be clear about this, mrjohnson , if your this, mrjohnson, if your concern was that there had been a civil service unease as about the challenging approach of some of your special advisers, and you plainly mean . mr cummings you plainly mean. mr cummings there your response was not to support the civil service and deal with mr cummings you say sidelined your cabinet secretary

and kept mr cummings well, that's your way of well, is that not what you did? >> i certainly see let me get back to sir mark. he he decided he wanted to move on. that's what he that's what he told me on on the issue of . my breast of on on the issue of. my breast of my team at and the culture in number 10. yes it was it was occasionally argumentative but i think that was no bad thing. and . we needed , frankly, to have . we needed, frankly, to have a an atmosphere in which people felt able to say things that were going to be controversial at the time. >> mrjohnson at the time. >> mr johnson without at the time. >> mrjohnson without labouring >> mr johnson without labouring the point a great deal of evidence has been given to the effect that there were systemic

problems in number 10 and the cabinet office wrong. people in the room, wrong people in the wrong jobs, people talking over each other. god complex leadership issues , toxicity, leadership issues, toxicity, misogyny , perpetual internecine misogyny, perpetual internecine warfare . either you were aware warfare. either you were aware of all that , in which case, why of all that, in which case, why did you not act? or if you were not, why were you not aware? so none of those things was put to me in the terms that you've just done. >> first of all, nobody came to me and said, you know, this is people have got complexes and internecine warfare going on here. what i saw was a country that needed continuous, urgent it action, and it needed solutions to be found. and what i wanted were meeting rooms in which people could speak their minds without fear of being

embarrassed or being seen to say something foolish . and that's something foolish. and that's one of the reasons, by the way , one of the reasons, by the way, why i sometimes spoke bluntly and freely in meetings. i wanted to give everybody cover to do the same . i wanted people to the same. i wanted people to feel that they could , if they feel that they could, if they had an an idea, then i wanted to hear it. so sir, can i just interrupt? >> i'm sorry, mr keith. i appreciate. can you hold that train of thought? whatever it was ? mr johnson, one of the was? mr johnson, one of the reasons i've been interested in the culture in number 10 is whether or not, if there had been in been different structures in place then this kind of culture place, then this kind of culture may not have arisen and that might have provided you with a better framework for decision making and seeking advice . and making and seeking advice. and so i was looking for example, we were looking at how initially the ministerial implementation groups , they didn't really work. groups, they didn't really work. and so until eventually you got

the covid and covid and they did work and i was just wondering if you had a kind of structure whereby something like covid covid s whatever swept into operation the minute the prime minister said, right, this is, this is a dire emergency, a pandemic . so, so might that help ? >> 7- >> look, i 7 >> look, i think that you've put your finger on it and that the problem , frankly, was that . the problem, frankly, was that. the system , the cabinet office the system, the cabinet office the ministerial, the migs , it was ministerial, the migs, it was all too diffuse and things in my view, only really started to come together when we had a rhythm of morning meetings where everybody could say their piece and that would set the agenda for the day. that wasn't necessarily a decision taking meeting, but but what i would submit is that it for future

pandemics, there needs to there needs to be a more clarity about which of the debating the discussion meetings and which of the decision making meetings, because what would what would happenis because what would what would happen is that i would be presented with a problem and then. presented with a problem and then . within the space of half then. within the space of half an hour, we would have got to the solution solution, and then we'd have to do it all again in a in a in a in a separate format or, or through the cabinet or, or, or through the cabinet or, or whatever. and i think that some work i mean, it's a it's a microscopic issue by comparison with with much of what we've been talking about. but some work needs to be done on on those procedures so that the prime minister has as a when he goes into some meetings , knowing goes into some meetings, knowing that these are decision taking

meetings and is given all the evidence on both sides of the argument , because that was not argument, because that was not happening. what was happening was we were having a meeting, we'd say this is the here's the problem . the are is taking off problem. the are is taking off the tears aren't working. what do we do now ? and i would try to do we do now? and i would try to come to an answer, but it i felt that the structures were we had the difference between covid and covid s but to be absolutely frank , i don't think if i was frank, i don't think if i was sitting in a covid o frank, i don't think if i was sitting in a covid 0 or a covid 5, sitting in a covid 0 or a covid s, i could have told you at any given moment whether it was a covid 0 or covid s. i was just sitting in meeting after meeting, trying to deal with the problem. now that was the most effective way to do it. you needed to be. you needed to be sitting permanently on the bndge sitting permanently on the bridge trying to deal with it all. and you know, back to the

to the culture. i had to make a decision about and i knew that some people were were difficult . some people were were difficult. i didn't know how difficult they were. clearly but i thought it was better on the whole for the country to have a disputatious culture for in number 10 than one that was quietly acquiescent to whatever i or the scientists , said. >> mr johnson , said. >> mrjohnson , in a whatsapp to >> mrjohnson, in a whatsapp to mr cummings you described him and you and your administration as having indulged in an orgy of narcissism that that's not disputatious culture, is it? >> i think with i think with respect that whatsapp was sent at the end of the year when i think things were becoming some of the things that were not obvious to me had become more

obvious. >> 48313 . page 17 is a whatsapp >> 48313. page 17 is a whatsapp in may, in fact. so earlier in the summer , whatsapp from mr the summer, whatsapp from mr cummings to you . i think it's a cummings to you. i think it's a screenshot from mr cummings witness statement . if we could witness statement. if we could scroll into the top of the page . scroll into the top of the page. if hancock texts really coming to meetings, number 10, please just ignore. we urgently need to have meetings without him. that's. cummings. have meetings without him. that's. cummings . and then that's. mr cummings. and then this all too recognisable. we need to rebuild the government from top to bottom . we need to from top to bottom. we need to take over the cabinet office and run the whole thing. >> this is me on the left, is it? >> well , that was my question. >> well, that was my question. the top right is obviously mr cummings, because. yes, he's asking you to ignore mr hancock's texts , which says hancock's texts, which says perhaps something about the

system. >> so this is just a moment. >> so this is just a moment. >> is it, mr cummings or are you who says we need to rebuild the government from top to bottom, take over the cabinet office and run the whole thing so what i'm what i'm getting here and what i'm getting at here and what i'm getting at here and what this is, this is a reference is this in may? it is the 13th of may. >> yeah. so this is this is a reference to a plan that we hatched to try to have a massive data driven revolution in in government and to use covid and the this moment when . we were the this moment when. we were finding out so much about people's propensities to illness of all kinds to try to run a much more effective government. and we and we opened a big office in 70 whitehall, a big open plan a bit like this actually , where the idea was

actually, where the idea was that we would assemble data and we would we would try and do things in a different way. i have to tell you, it was not success. >> success. >> and mr johnson, success. >> and mrjohnson, it is well >> and mr johnson, it is well known that in new data system was set up the ten ds system. yes it's called ten data system or 10 downing street. whatever your preference . and there was a your preference. and there was a greater provision of data throughout the summer of 2020, particularly from april , may particularly from april, may onwards. but but this message does not refer to data, does it? it doesn't refer to setting up a new data stream. it talks about rebuilding the government from top to bottom and taking over the cabinet office. yes. which wasn't, of course, itself responsible for data. it had multiple various functions. not one of which was the provision of data to central government. >> but but sorry, what i meant the office that we were that we created was in the cabinet office. it was in what is it was in 70 whitehall and so that was what i was talking about. i, i,

i agreed that that things needed to change and i wanted a data, a data driven reform of government i >> -- >> two ema: >> two further points on this topic , please. firstly, mr cases topic, please. firstly, mr cases whatsapp messages with his predecessor , mark sedwill 303 predecessor, mark sedwill 303 245 page one and i don't want to go through this line by line. mr johnson, but if you just scroll your scroll your eyes down the page, you'll see multiple references to the behaviour in downing street and in essence , downing street and in essence, mark sedwill saying, i've agreed to stay on for now, subject to various conditions about behaviour and systems . the fact behaviour and systems. the fact that he says, well , i've agreed that he says, well, i've agreed to stay on may say something about his departure, but there

are references on this page to not willing to agree to do any job in the version of the centre without guarantees. on his conversations with the prime minister behaviours . conversations with the prime minister behaviours. i minister about behaviours. i will work for you and the prime minister where is this? you'll see that in the middle of the page. yes. there we go . 18 0508 page. yes. there we go. 18 0508 29 so that that passage i'll not support any version of number 10 that undermines any cabinet secretary , let alone you. i'll secretary, let alone you. i'll do my utmost to support a prime minister but i'm very, very cautious about walking back into this as there is then a reference to the conversation with you about behaviours at 1805 . 2008 59 1547 i don't want 1805. 2008 59 1547 i don't want to go near these people unless there are guarantees about behaviour for 1805, 20, 22, 50, 32 i'm here from everyone that

you've made the prime minister see sense and the only thing thatis see sense and the only thing that is happening is creation of a covid job. i'm almost more appalled that the prime minister has and that's has done all of this and that's completely put me off my stride . completely put me off my stride. there has done all of this damage when all he really wanted was a point person for covid 1805, 20, 22, 29, 46. i hammered the game playing covid now lead the game playing covid now lead the work fine. if it sticks, i'm not sure he that's you saw sense. he just gave in when i made clear how angry i was at the behaviour at and so on and so forth , if they made made it so forth, if they made made it absolutely plain to you that there were very real problems in there were very real problems in the operation of number 10, in part because of the behaviour of mr cummings in part because of your own approach to leadership and the decision making and in part because you had effectively sacked. mark sedwill. well

several things . several things. >> i don't remember any conversations about behaviour with either of these these people . i don't remember. the people. i don't remember. the any particular complaints being raised by, by simon case about anybody's behaviour . yeah. i anybody's behaviour. yeah. i think that . you know, you should think that. you know, you should take these points up with the current cabinet secretary. i understand he , he can't, they've understand he, he can't, they've been taken up . been taken up. >> they have been taken up with mark sedwill, who has been a witness in this inquiry. mr johnson well . all right. johnson well. all right. >> that's good. but finally, what i what i would say is that i don't think it was a bad thing to have people who were willing

to have people who were willing to challenge the consensus and get things done and whatever you may say about the government, it did get an awful lot of things done. and i think that's what the country needed at the time. >> and a lot of things were not done as well as they might otherwise have been is otherwise have been done. is that equally possible ? that not equally possible? >> think it's i think what is >> i think it's i think what is certainly always true , certainly that's always true, but i don't happen to think that when it came to the management of the pandemic and this is, i think, the crucial thing when it came to the management of the of the pandemic, the any any kind of differences , feuding or of differences, feuding or whatever between officials, which i'm sad to say are just what happens in places like number 10. i don't think any of that made the slightest difference to our processes and our decision making. >> you could have stopped it. if we look at we, i think we

probably need to move on. well, there's one there's one final point, which is a matter which which lady intervened to ask a question about when the evidence was given. i'm stopping you asking you a question i wanted. >> okay. >> right. okay. >> right. okay. >> yes . >> yes. >> yes. >> the inquiry was shown a whatsapp from mr cummings, which was particularly offensive about helen macnamara . it was sent to helen macnamara. it was sent to you and others in your whatsapp group , but. you and others in your whatsapp group, but. but you maintained a silence and you never spoke up to say that is unacceptable and, and it cannot be allowed to go on, on my watch . on, on my watch. >> i, i did see that and i, i don't remember it now, but i don't remember it now, but i don't remember it now, but i don't remember seeing it at the time. but i must have seen it because i was on the, on the group . you were. i've rung helen group. you were. i've rung helen macnamara to apologise to her for not having called it out .

for not having called it out. and you know , so if you've if and you know, so if you've if you've done that, i would i've apologised to her finally this afternoon , the dhsc . and mr afternoon, the dhsc. and mr hancock . hancock. >> a considerable amount of evidence has been given to the inquiry that the lead government department model may not have been appropriate for a whole system crisis like covid. you understand what the lead government department model is and it will plainly function well at the beginning. it may function less well when the whole of government is engaged and perhaps too much pressure is placed on the lead. it can't accommodate the weight of the whole system response . there is whole system response. there is considerable material in sir patrick vallance diaries and in the witness statement of mr cummings to the effect that

there was a high degree of chaos in the dhsc , that there was in the dhsc, that there was operating inefficiency. sir patrick vallance talks about this all the way through to may 2021. were you aware that competent, very senior advisers in your administration held the view that the dhsc had been overwhelmed and was operating inefficient ? inefficient? >> i was certainly aware that . >> i was certainly aware that. the department of health and matt hancock were coming under fire and but i want to go back to the high level point i made earlier about what all this signifies and the ways in which it should be read and understood . first of all, it's the kind of stuff that would never have previously come out from any administration because it's now on instant social messaging of

the kind that previous ministers , previous governments didn't have. this is this is this is instant chit chat between people who would normally have said this to each other's face wherever in the corridors or wherever. i'm so sorry . wherever. i'm so sorry. >> mrjohnson. will you allow me? i'm so sorry to interrupt. you may have misunderstood my question . forgive me. the question. forgive me. the material consists not just of whatsapps in the evening notes, but also witness statements which talk about a high level of operational inefficiency or chaos. however, so in the in the dhs , i'm not talking about the dhs, i'm not talking about the more personal or internecine remarks in the whatsapp. >> totally , totally understand. >> totally, totally understand. >> totally, totally understand. >> were you aware that that view was taken generally of the gchq? >> i was aware , yes. certainly >> i was aware, yes. certainly i was certainly i was aware that the dhs was under fire from loads of people, but that was hardly surprising because the country was going through a

horrific pandemic. and i just want to say what i should have got quickly , more quickly to the got quickly, more quickly to the point. the point is you've got a lot of very talented sometimes super confident, sometimes egotistical people who are crushed with anxiety about what is happening to their country , is happening to their country, who are wracked secretly with self doubt and self criticism , self doubt and self criticism, and who externalise that by criticising others. and it's human nature. and one of when you're the leader in those circumstances , your job is to circumstances, your job is to work out what is justified and what is people sounding off and what is people sounding off and what is people sounding off and what is political nonsense and my judgement was that matt was on the whole doing a good job in very difficult circumstances and there was no advantage in in moving him as i was being urged to do. that was my judgement.

and on the lead department point, i think that yes , i think point, i think that yes, i think it was a huge burden on the department of health to be the lead for department a while. but that rapidly morphed into the centre running everything. and, and that was inevitable . and that was inevitable. >> why were you suggest in response to my question that these criticisms were made because people were crushed with anxiety and secretly with self doubt and self criticism . doubt and self criticism. whatever the psychology and mood of sir patrick vallance . mr i'm of sir patrick vallance. mr i'm not sorry. >> i don't wish to attribute that psychological state to any individual, but no, no, no. >> we'll wait for the question. please whatever states they were in and even if they were in a state of being crushed by self criticism and self doubt , that criticism and self doubt, that hardly explains why a significant number of witnesses describe objectively early chaos

inside the dhsc well, i think it goes. >> i think the reason is that you've got a once in a century pandemic for which , sadly , the pandemic for which, sadly, the there was no proper preparation in the country because we didn't know how to deal with a highly contagious coronavirus pandemic at and all the pressure initially was on good hardworking department of health officials who of course felt under huge , huge personal and under huge, huge personal and professional obligation to get things right and who naturally were in a in a in a state of great anxiety and i just get back to my point the my job was

to decide whether the that problem , which i think was problem, which i think was inevitable, could be solved by moving people or whether we had to forge on. and i thought it was better to forge on regardless of the state of the individuals in the dhsc and acknowledged the remarkable and extraordinary efforts made by so many people individually, within and without government to respond . respond. >> it was part of your function as prime minister to ensure that the lead government department or the dhsc was responding and deaung or the dhsc was responding and dealing with the crisis as best it could. you were obliged charged to ensure that your government was operating properly. system hinckley you knew who that other adviser was, senior advisers in your administration were telling you that the dhsc was not operating well. it was chaotic and dysfunctional and there were very real concerns being

expressed about its secretary of state. why did you not take a grip on that issue? >> because because because, first of all, i thought that the permanent secretary at the department of health, chris wormald, was outstanding. and i secondly , for the reason secondly, for the reason i repeat what i have said, i thought in the circumstances that matt hancock was doing a good job. he's extremely ably he's intellectually able. he was on top of a the subject and whatever his failings may or may not have been, i didn't see any advantage to the country at a critical time , to the country in critical time, to the country in moving him in exchange for someone else. when i couldn't be sure that that we were

necessarily going to be trading up and i thought it was i thought that i did think about it. of course i thought about it. of course i thought about it. but but i thought that was the best thing to do. but what we what we also did was we took control and the management of the pandemic was was basically centralised in number 10. so is this the nub of it throughout april, may, june, july , you were april, may, june, july, you were aware that a number of senior advisers and civil servants were highly critical of mr hancock . highly critical of mr hancock. >> you were told by mark sedwill around the 2nd of july that you should sack him . you were aware should sack him. you were aware that he had a tendency to over promise because you debated long and hard with mr cummings the merits of what you were being told about testing . and there told about testing. and there was a general lack of confidence that what he told you was accurate , but that you stuck by accurate, but that you stuck by him for good or ill.

>> i didn't stick by him for you know, any any reason other than that i thought on the whole an incredibly difficult circumstances. he was doing a good job, that it was not obvious to me that that the trade that the moving him would be worth the disruption. and i also thought, which is true , also thought, which is true, that in any political environment, at some stage somebody is always telling you to sack somebody . and that is to sack somebody. and that is just it's just i'm afraid what happensin just it's just i'm afraid what happens in politics. and so i had to aim off. >> and the last question , >> and the last question, please, on this, in his witness statement, mr cummings says in the summer of 2020, mrjohnson the summer of 2020, mr johnson refused to replace mr hancock , refused to replace mr hancock, despite repeated requests from me , both cabinet secretaries and me, both cabinet secretaries and many others. and being told repeatedly that leaving him there guaranteed further disasters and deaths in the

autumn . his political secretary autumn. his political secretary told me the prime minister wanted to keep mr hancock as the sacrifice for the inquiry . now sacrifice for the inquiry. now that is, of course you may say, a piece of double hearsay , but a piece of double hearsay, but mr cummings has it in his witness statement and therefore you need to answer it . you need to answer it. >> sure. well, i don't remember that at all. and i'd and it's nonsense . it's. that at all. and i'd and it's nonsense . it's . the my thinking nonsense. it's. the my thinking was very straightforward . i had was very straightforward. i had a health secretary who was able who was a good public communicator in my view . i felt communicator in my view. i felt that whatever his defects, i wasn't clear that we were going to trade up by by doing a swap. i thought it was a very, very difficult time to do that. and i wasn't persuaded by the

arguments and i don't by the way, remember , he says both way, remember, he says both cabinet secretary , i don't cabinet secretary, i don't remember either of them specifically saying this, but, you know, maybe , maybe i you know, maybe, maybe i certainly remember. i certainly remember there was . there was remember there was. there was anti department of health militating , that's for sure. militating, that's for sure. >> on the 2nd of july, mark said, well, whatsapp simon case and says, i told the prime minister to sack hancock to save lives and protect the nhs . lives and protect the nhs. right. but you don't think he did? >> did you ask him about that? >> did you ask him about that? >> indeed . >> indeed. >> indeed. >> right. i mean, i'm not i don't i don't remember him saying that in so many words. >> there we are , milady. is that >> there we are, milady. is that a convenient moment? >> it is. thank you very much . a >> it is. thank you very much. a very long day for you, mr johnson. i'm afraid. another long tomorrow. but that will long day tomorrow. but that will be we'll finish tomorrow. be it. we'll finish tomorrow. thank you so , at 10:00 tomorrow, thank you so, at 10:00 tomorrow, please. thank you . please. thank you. >> okay . there we go. so, boris

>> okay. there we go. so, boris johnson's evidence that the covid inquiry, which so far has cost the taxpayer £100 million, is wrapping up. he started at 10:00 this morning. that concludes the first day's evidence. and of course, boris will be back tomorrow. so for some reaction to what was said today, i'm joined by gb news today, i'm now joined by gb news senior political commentator nigel again, nigel nelson. hello again, nigel. so boris started the day by saying i am deeply sorry for the pain and loss and suffering . the pain and loss and suffering. how do you think he performed and more to the point, do you think those kind of apologies will be accepted by his many critics? he's the turn at a critics? he's the star turn at a long running inquiry. how do you think he did ? think he did? >> well, i mean , as i said, >> well, i mean, as i said, i said to you earlier, martin, that i thought he was displaying a certain honesty , which i a certain honesty, which i hadnt a certain honesty, which i hadn't really seen before , in hadn't really seen before, in the sense that he did admit all the sense that he did admit all the way through that he'd made mistakes . mistakes. >> acas i think right at the end of the evidence he gave today, we still don't have any real answers about matt hancock. i mean, whether or not people did

advise boris johnson that matt hancock needed to go as health secretary or not. but so i think we've been left we've been left with a bit of a cliff—hanger for tomorrow morning. so in that sense, it's almost getting better than i'm a celebrity dressing because he commended matt hancock as doing a good job in difficult circumstance because he called him competent when some of the fireworks, the criticism of dominic cummings was put to boris earlier in the day didn't take the bait on that ehhen >> do you think boris has been expertly schooled in kind of not saying a great deal trying to get through this without causing controversy and then he can get on with the rest of his life? i just kind of felt that a lot of the time it lacked teeth . the time it lacked teeth. >> yes. i mean, there there are a number of areas where i think he should have actually given sort of more straightforward answers than he actually did not in the sense that he wasn't telling the truth about what he

did say. so simply that we wanted to know an awful lot more . we a lot wanted to know an awful lot more . evidence we a lot wanted to know an awful lot more . evidence there ve a lot wanted to know an awful lot more . evidence there about a lot wanted to know an awful lot more . evidence there about how ot of evidence there about how dysfunction all government was dunng dysfunction all government was during the whole covid crisis . during the whole covid crisis. bofis during the whole covid crisis. boris johnson seemed to be saying, well, look, this is normal in politics. this well, this wasn't a normal time the country was facing the worst emergency probably since the second world war. and what you want want is people who are prepared to actually step up to the plate and have the skills to do so. now, clearly, that didn't exist in government . and so the exist in government. and so the idea that this was actually just a normal thing that people are criticising people all the time, the idea that a number of people were saying and boris johnson seems to have a memory lapse here about whether he was told this by two cabinet secretaries to sack matt hancock . at a time to sack matt hancock. at a time like that, you've got to make some difficult decisions now. bofis some difficult decisions now. boris johnson says, look, he thinks the best thing to do at

the time was not to cause that kind of disruption. he says he wasn't be trading up wasn't sure he'd be trading up if got rid of the health if he got rid of the health secretary and the best way forward was to forge ahead . now forward was to forge ahead. now it'll be up to the inquiry to actually say in its final report whether that decision was right . whether that decision was right. >> there was some drama , nigel, >> there was some drama, nigel, when he recalled 2020 and boris actually was choking back the tears. he called it that tragic, tragic year. we did lockdown, but we did bounce back. and of course, on march the 27th that yean course, on march the 27th that year, that was when boris himself contracted covid. there were rare moments of emotion like that. he did say sorry and he did say , i take he did say, i take responsibility for all of the decisions, which if you think about it, is in stark contrast to previous evidence givers who've been playing the blame game . and so far it has been the game. and so far it has been the bash, the boris inquiry. so in that sense, boris was magnanimous. >> yes, i think so. and you're

absolutely right. he didn't take the bait to have a go at dominic cummings. he's obviously obviously , he and dominic obviously, he and dominic cummings have fallen out. so badly that you'd think that he would have have certainly a go at his chief adviser. and if anything , at his chief adviser. and if anything, boris johnson seemed to to protect the to be trying to protect the people around him rather than apportion blame , as they've been apportion blame, as they've been doing, doing for him. so from that point that that is the point of view, i think that where where boris johnson appeared to be behaving honestly , he by saying, yes, look, i was the man in charge. i took the final decisions. i take the blame for what went wrong. the important thing, i think, especially for the inquiry as it decides what is the lessons to be learned from this , is he does be learned from this, is he does admit that admit to those mistakes. and that allows the inquiry to move on to how we can actually deal with these things better in the future. >> okay, nigel nelson, thanks for joining us. and of course will be with us throughout the rest the i'm now rest of the show. i'm joined now by haslam , who was john

by jonathan haslam, who was john major's director of communications he was prime communications when he was prime minister. thanks for joining communications when he was prime minister. thanks forjoining us, jonathan. always a pleasure. i just touched upon something there with nigel nelson, and we've gone over some of the detail of what boris said today. i wanted to talk to you about his delivery . and seemed to his delivery. and it seemed to me you would know much more me and you would know much more about having been a about this than i having been a director of communications for a prime seems prime minister for boris seems to well schooled, to have been very well schooled, very drilled in, dare i say very well drilled in, dare i say it, not saying an awful lot in a sense . he gave a great sense. he gave a great performance . he was magnanimous. performance. he was magnanimous. he didn't blame others. he didn't rise to any of the criticism of him from other people who've given evidence, such as dominic cummings and matt hancock . in that sense, how matt hancock. in that sense, how do you rate his performance ? do you rate his performance? >> it's fascinating to watch this because we need to go back a little bit and consider the fact that there's been an awful lot of advance briefing of his side of the story and that's come out in a couple of our heavier newspapers . and we've

heavier newspapers. and we've seen a little bit more of it from his so—called friends. seen a little bit more of it from his so—called friends . but from his so—called friends. but now on the day, what do we see? we see a boris johnson who yes , we see a boris johnson who yes, he is very well schooled and he's a very , very good media he's a very, very good media performer. we shouldn't forget he's got bags of experience in that respect. surprised that respect. i'm surprised because his appearance is the typical shambolic johnson. he's got a lot more hair than i have, but at least he could do is to comb it actually, to and look smart. >> and that would be a matter of being respectful to the members of the audience who clearly have lost family members . lost family members. >> and i think it's kind of unfortunate that they a bit unfortunate that they made a bit of noise at the start of of a noise at the start of proceedings and had to be put down by baroness hallett. but nonetheless, boris is saying quite a lot of things . he is quite a lot of things. he is taking very great care to control his temper. i found it interesting that his emotions got the better of him and we shouldn't underestimate the fact that these are incredibly

stressful occasions for the individual . stressful occasions for the individual. so yes, it's a good, interesting performance . there interesting performance. there is a big question about his memory. there's also a question about his whatsapp messages . and about his whatsapp messages. and i think there's also a wider question on about the extent to which our king's counsel is looking at to a certain extent , looking at to a certain extent, digging through the ephemera thatis digging through the ephemera that is the relationships with dominic cummings, the language that's been used, misogyny and suchlike and yes, these attract an awful lot of attention. but as nigel was saying just a moment ago, really what we've got to get to is there were mistakes made . how do we avoid mistakes made. how do we avoid them in the future and how do we deal with things differently? and yes, okay, it's important to understand that there was a year of chaos . we know that from all of chaos. we know that from all the documentation that we have . the documentation that we have. and i would rather that the kc moved on to more positive territory for the country . about

territory for the country. about you've had this experience . it you've had this experience. it wasn't great. how do you do it better next time? well that's the pertinent question. >> jonathan. and what was fascinating about the evidence before today , a lot of people before today, a lot of people who believed that boris was more libertarian in his approach, maybe favoured a more swedish style approach, protect the vulnerable , protect the elderly vulnerable, protect the elderly and allow the economy to function pretty much as normal. yet today we heard a different picture. boris, he claims , was picture. boris, he claims, was the one pushing for earlier lockdowns and it was those around him who were more resistant. was very resistant. that was very, very surprising . surprising. >> it was surprise . and we've >> it was surprise. and we've got to look back again at other things. he has admitted that he was still off the mark. i think it's rather odd when he said to the inquiry we should have tweaked earlier . the inquiry we should have tweaked earlier. i mean, the question there why was the question there is why was the government not on high alert when it had heard and has all the intelligence about the difficulties that china was facing the time and seen some facing at the time and seen some of our european countries

involved in, you know, desperate circumstances ? italy comes circumstances? italy comes particularly to mind and why there was such great slowness in closing down our barriers . so closing down our barriers. so there was a degree there where we have to think why is it that governments not on high alert when you hear about these stories of things coming from china and that you have a new disease, were they complaining because sars , a predecessor and because sars, a predecessor and other diseases, hadn't really taken off for us and yet in a globalised world, you know that we can be in china in nine hours by plane. we should be much, much more alert to that. and that just points to a problem within government . and i think within government. and i think you'll probably find it's exacerbated by boris johnson's rather cavalier way of dealing with meetings . we just had an with meetings. we just had an explanation, a little while ago in the live commentary that he was finding it difficult to understand which meeting he was in. well, there is to be a lot more clarity, and i think that

comes back to a wider point , comes back to a wider point, which i bang on about as an ex civil servant of the demarcation lines between politicians and then the political side and the civil service and understanding where you get the best decision making coming for it. and if bofis making coming for it. and if boris johnson found himself confused in which meeting he was actually sitting and chairing, that indicates there's a real problem of control and understanding and the machinery of government . and it's not just of government. and it's not just the civil service there are two, three parts to this politician , three parts to this politician, as they should give the lead civil servants need to feed the machine and then take action on its behalf with political direction and the discombobulate factor is the political aids and the spin doctors who have too much influence and therefore, i think dominic cummings has quite a lot to answer for in an individual capacity for what he was doing within government. >> okay, jonathan haslam, former john major , director of john major, director of communications, thank you very

much for joining communications, thank you very much forjoining us. and i'm joined now by pip who's joined now by pip tomson, who's been the covid inquiry all been at the covid inquiry all day . a dramatic day , pip. it day. a dramatic day, pip. it started with some jeers from protesters. there was even some tears from boris johnson. what were the highlights for you when bofis were the highlights for you when boris johnson was the prime minister? >> good afternoon, martin. well there could be another highlight in just a moment because we are expecting boris johnson to emerge from the building any moment now. there is a wall of media waiting for him as well as many people representing the bereaved . boris johnson avoided bereaved. boris johnson avoided them at 7:00 this morning when he arrived , but he's not going he arrived, but he's not going to be able to dodge them, i don't think when he leaves from the front the building any the front of the building any minute now, he gave . some six minute now, he gave. some six hours of evidence to the inquiry today and in the last hour or so , as i think you've just been talking about, he was questioned by inquiry lawyer hugo keith kc about the culture in number 10.

and he's very much tried to defend it, saying it was occasionally argumentative, but that was no bad thing and they needed to be an atmosphere where people felt able to say controversial things , he said controversial things, he said these claims of toxicity , dodi, these claims of toxicity, dodi, misogyny , god complex , none of misogyny, god complex, none of those things were put to him in the way that hugo keith did. just listen to this exchange , just listen to this exchange, judge, and nobody came to me and said, you know, this is people have got complexes and internecine warfare going on here. >> what i saw was , was a country >> what i saw was, was a country that needed continuous urgent action and it needed solutions to be found . and what i wanted to be found. and what i wanted were meetings in which people could speak their minds without without fear of being embarrassed or being seen to say

something foolish and that's one of the reasons, by the way , why of the reasons, by the way, why i sometimes spoke bluntly and freely in meetings . i sometimes spoke bluntly and freely in meetings. i i sometimes spoke bluntly and freely in meetings . i wanted to freely in meetings. i wanted to give everybody cover to do the same . i wanted people to feel same. i wanted people to feel that they could , if they had that they could, if they had a an idea, then i wanted to hear it . it. >> concerns before the inquiry wraps up for the day. he was also pushed on the former health secretary matt hancock, and he was asked about all those people warning and urging him to sack him in summer 2020. and he was asked about why he wanted to keep him and borisjohnson very keep him and boris johnson very clearly said that matt hancock , clearly said that matt hancock, he believed, was doing a good job in very difficult circumstances and there was no advantage to moving him as he was urged to do . he's also been was urged to do. he's also been talking about the timing of lockdown and he says that when the decision was finally made

and he was out of time , out of and he was out of time, out of there was no wriggle room left. so that stay at home order, home order came in on monday, march the 23rd. and as you alluded to, martin, he did get a little bit emotional this morning when he was talking about the many , many was talking about the many, many lives lost during the pandemic. visibly so he had to pause to compose himself and watching on were in the inquiry room. families of the bereaved, several of them had to be ejected first thing this morning when boris johnson apologised to the inquiry and said he was deeply sorry for the pain and the loss of suffering of the victims and their families. i've been speaking to a few during today. are they convinced that anything the former prime minister had to say? just take a listen . listen. >> how these unfortunately , we >> how these unfortunately, we couldn't get in there and there's not enough seats for all there's not enough seats for all the families that should be sent to stage. >> so we're really not happy

about that. but what's been said and stuff we've seen on our phones is just talking a load of mumbo jumbo like he normally does, saying he can't remember these, can't remember that he these, he can't remember that he doesn't with the figures doesn't agree with the figures of people that of the amount of people that died. know, where is he died. you know, where is he getting these figures from ? and getting these figures from? and it's only what i expected, be it's only what i expected, to be honest, lied all honest, because he's lied all the and he'll lie in the way through and he'll lie in there his way there and try and talk his way out it like he always does . out of it like he always does. >> it seems to say, i can't remember . >> it seems to say, i can't remember. it's easy to say , remember. it's easy to say, let's blame it on somebody else, because that's what it's been so far. everybody's passing the buck. far. everybody's passing the buck . dodi far. everybody's passing the buck. dodi ukip is matt hancock saying? well, he told the prime minister this and he told the prime minister that and now you've got boris johnson in there who can't remember half there who can't remember half the things that he's supposed to have said or he's passing it on to somebody else. now obviously there is a very, very so many of there is a very, very so many of the people here remain

unconvinced by what he has said to the inquiry during today. >> not impressed by his answers. but i have to say, martin, watching him for all these hours today, he was a lot less combative and punchy, really than i expected. and there was quite a few times where he did say he he couldn't remember there will be more from the former prime minister tomorrow. and we'll bring it you here, of course , on gb news. course, on gb news. >> okay, pip johnson, thank you for that. superb update. and we'll have much more reaction to bofis we'll have much more reaction to boris johnson's comments throughout the show. of course. and the day's other and we'll have the day's other top too, including some top stories, too, including some very words suella very strong words from suella braverman. daubney on braverman. i'm martin daubney on gb and we are the

isabel monday to thursdays from six till 930 . six till 930. >> welcome back . 451you're >> welcome back. 451 you're watching or listening to me martin daubney on gb news now bofis martin daubney on gb news now boris johnson has admitted the government underestimated the threat posed by the coronavirus in the early days of the pandemic . and let's bring you pandemic. and let's bring you some dramatic breaking news now. the has published the government has published that emergency legislation to deem rwanda a safe destination nafion deem rwanda a safe destination nation that has just been published. legislation has deemed rwanda a safe destination just not being published. the bill is set to be rushed through the commons and comes after home secretary james cleverly signed the new deal in kigali amid efforts to remedy the concerns

of the uk's highest court. and the news broke a couple of hours after some damning comments from the former home secretary suella braverman on the migrant crisis en mass on controlled illegal immigration. >> ian, we are all here familiar with the problem. tens of thousands of mostly young men , thousands of mostly young men, many with values and social mores, at odds with our own pounng mores, at odds with our own pouring into our country day after day, month after month, year after year. men come from safe countries . many are not safe countries. many are not refugee us, but are economic migrant . refugee us, but are economic migrant. it's all have paid thousands of pounds to criminal gangs to break into britain . all gangs to break into britain. all have come from a safe country. france guess who? let's face it, should be doing so much more to stop them . this is putting stop them. this is putting unsustainable pressure on our

pubuc unsustainable pressure on our public finances and our public services. it is straining community cohesion , jeopardising community cohesion, jeopardising national security and harming pubuc national security and harming public safety . we . a dramatic public safety. we. a dramatic speech that culminated in the rallying call. >> it is now or never. the conservative party faces electoral oblivion in a matter of months. if we introduce yet another bill that is destined to fail, do we fight for sovereignty or let our party die 7 sovereignty or let our party die ? and another dramatic breaking news line in about 7 or 8 minutes time at 5:00, rishi sunak will face the 1922 committee he faced that committee, bearing in mind we just broke moments ago that the rwanda to bill legislation has now been published. so no doubt rishi will present that to the 1922 committee. straight hotfooted after suella braverman speech. will it be enough ? will speech. will it be enough? will it satiate the tory revolt? the

european research group, the star chamber , the new star chamber, the new conservatives all rallying around suella braverman overnight . the evidence will be overnight. the evidence will be presented to the 1922 committee. very very shortly. we'll have all of that news on a dramatic day in politics. and of course, bofis day in politics. and of course, boris johnson's evidence at the covid inquiry and the dramatic line that raf scampton will accept . 2000 asylum seekers. a accept. 2000 asylum seekers. a high court ruling today that a kick in the teeth for locals will have that right after this. i'm martin daubney. will have that right after this. i'm martin daubney . stay with i'm martin daubney. stay with us. we've got all the latest on the boris covid inquiry. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hi there. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office. with the gb news forecast. but it's been a cold. but for many bright day. however big changes take place overnight as increasingly wet and windy weather arrives from the west atlantic . areas of

from the west atlantic. areas of low pressure are moving in from the west, bringing weather fronts, bringing strengthening winds, bringing increasingly wet, but also in places mild conditions. we start off with an early frost in the east, but as the cloud increases overnight, temperatures will actually rise through the night and we'll see that rain spread in as that rain bumps into the colder air. there'll be some hill snow over northern england . parts of northern england. parts of scotland well could affect scotland as well could affect some thing some higher routes first thing thursday. quickly thursday. but quite quickly through seen through the day, having seen some patches and some snow some icy patches and some snow over hills , we'll see the over the hills, we'll see the mild air sweep in across the uk. turning the rain to rain at all levels and actually it is going to be a soggy day for most of us with that rain heaviest in the west, strengthening winds, risk of gales for western scotland andifs of gales for western scotland and it's not going to feel very pleasant with temperatures of 5 to 7 celsius in the east, although double figures for the west as that milder air takes a hold . friday is west as that milder air takes a hold. friday is a similar day with low pressure close by spiralling bands of rain or

showers circulating around it. the wettest weather once again in but those showers in the west, but those showers spreading most parts through in the west, but those showers spreafternoon.1ost parts through in the west, but those showers spre afternoon. gustyarts through in the west, but those showers spre afternoon. gusty winds'ough in the west, but those showers spreafternoon. gusty winds buth the afternoon. gusty winds but feeling a bit milder in places as well. the weekend brings further spells of rain and showers. also some drier interludes at times that warm feeling inside from boxt boiler as sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> good afternoon. it's 5:00. this is gb news and i'm martin daubney keeping you company for the next hour. we've got loads and loads of packing to the next houn and loads of packing to the next hour. and of course today boris johnson at the covid johnson was at the covid inquiry. six hours of evidence. he said, deeply sorry for he said, i'm deeply sorry for the the loss and the the pain. the loss and the suffering. they were jeers from the crowd and even tears from boris. we'll have a full update on that dramatic day in case you're just catching up next. in the last 15 minutes, the rwanda scampton scampton is the house 2000 asylum seekers this is despite locals saying we don't want it. they've been over . want it. they've been over. they've been overruled. 2000 asylum seekers will go to raf scampton in lincolnshire , of scampton in lincolnshire, of course, the home of the historic dambusters. and that story, as i said, just about 15 minutes ago, the rwanda bill has been

published. the full detail now can be analysed and this follows hot on the heels of suella braverman's dramatic resignation speech when she said it is now or never. the tory party faces electoral wipe—out unless we act and write about just now. rishi sunakis and write about just now. rishi sunak is facing the 1922 committee to put his plan forward. will it bear muster or is there a tory revolt going on? we'll have all of the latest . we'll have all of the latest. and of course, nigel survived another knockout tournament last night. french fred got the boots following hot on the heels of nelly. the two biggest critics of mr brexit have got the boot. could it be a remainers nightmare? could mr brexit be crowned king of the jungle? that's all coming up in the next hour.i that's all coming up in the next hour . i want that's all coming up in the next hour. i want to know your thoughts. vaiews@gbnews.com. do you believe of rishi? do you think his plan for rwanda will be enough? do you back suella blistering words, positioning herself as a future leader who

gets your vote? where do you stand? and raf scampton. i mean, what do you think about that? a lot of people think it's absolutely scandalous. 2000 asylum seekers being put into the of the historic the home of the historic dambusters. me all your dambusters. send me all of your views of that after views, but all of that after your news headlines with your latest news headlines with polly . martin thank polly middlehurst. martin thank you and good afternoon to you. >> well, boris johnson, as you've been seeing, has admitted mistakes were made during the pandemic under his watch. >> the former prime minister telling the covid inquiry things should have been done differently and that he took full responsibility for the government's decisions at the time . mrjohnson apologised as time. mrjohnson apologised as well for the suffering caused, saying he should have twigged much sooner when the pandemic took hold in italy in february 2020. >> i am deeply sorry for the pain and the loss and the suffering of those victims and

their families. suffering of those victims and theirfamilies. i look at suffering of those victims and their families. i look at all this stuff in which we seem so oblivious with horror now. i mean, we should have we should have tweaked, we should collectively have tweaked much soonen collectively have tweaked much sooner. i should have tweaked . sooner. i should have tweaked. well outside the inquiry. >> families of those who died dunng >> families of those who died during the pandemic gave their views just talking a load of mumbo jumbo like he normally does, saying he can't remember these, he can't remember that he doesn't agree with the figures of the amount of people that died. >> you know, where's he getting these from ? and it's these figures from? and it's only expected to be only what i expected to be honest, because he's lied all the through and he'll lie in the way through and he'll lie in there and and talk his way there and try and talk his way out always does. out of it like he always does. >> seems to say, i can't >> it seems to say, i can't remember . >> it seems to say, i can't remember. it's easy to say , hey, remember. it's easy to say, hey, let's blame it on somebody else, because that's what it's been so far. everyone is passing the buck now . buck now. >> the former home secretary was warned the conservatives face

electoral oblivion if the party introduces a bill that's destined to fail. introduces a bill that's destined to fail . suella destined to fail. suella braverman statement was made before the government published emergency legislation to revive the rwanda deportation scheme . the rwanda deportation scheme. ms braverman saying the uk needs to leave the foreign courts and it's now or never to fix the issue of illegal migration. >> the conservative party faces electoral oblivion in a matter of months. if we introduce yet another bill destined to fail . another bill destined to fail. do we fight for sovereignty or do we let our party die ? now, do we let our party die? now, i may not have always found the right words in the past, madam deputy speaker, but i refuse . i deputy speaker, but i refuse. i refuse to sit by and allow us to fail . fail. >> suella braverman well, the emergency legislation on rwanda was published within the last houn was published within the last hour, making it clear that the country is now safe to accommodate migrants who come to the uk illegally. the safety of rwanda bill is set to be rushed

through the commons as it was today after being introduced into parliament. earlier, the prime minister told mps it'll make people think twice about crossing the channel illegally . crossing the channel illegally. >> this is the crucial point that the honourable gentleman doesn't understand. deterrence is critical. even the national crime agency have said that you need an effective removals and deterrence agreement if you truly want to break the cycle of tragedy that we see. >> well, sir keir starmer described the policy as a gimmick and said the new deal means some rwandan refugees will come to the uk. >> article 99 of the treaty says the parties shall make arrangements for the united kingdom to resettle a portion of rwanda's most vulnerable refugees in the united kingdom . refugees in the united kingdom. so how many refugees from rwanda will be coming here to the uk under the treaty ? under the treaty? >> now a murder investigation

has been launched by the metropolitan police after a woman named as leanne gordon died and two others were injured in a shooting in east london last night . a 20 year old man last night. a 20 year old man and a 16 year old boy were taken to hospital. officer are investigating whether the shooting is linked to a separate incident where shots were fired on the same road a few days beforehand. arrests have been beforehand. no arrests have been made. chief made. detective chief superintendent james conway said the police will restore justice on the streets . on the streets. >> a murder investigation has been launched by homicide detectives from from the met's specialist crime command. >> they are being supported by local and specialist officers from my team here in hackney and tower hamlets . tower hamlets. >> i want to assure everyone , >> i want to assure everyone, one, that this will be a painstaking investigation . painstaking investigation. >> we are determined to bring those responsible to . justice those responsible to. justice >> and veteran tv executive dr. samir shah is the government's preferred candidate to be the

chairman of the bbc. the culture secretary saying dr. shah has over 40 years experience in journalism and will provide the support and scrutiny the bbc needs. he support and scrutiny the bbc needs . he is support and scrutiny the bbc needs. he is set to support and scrutiny the bbc needs . he is set to follow needs. he is set to follow richard sharp after he resigned earlier this year. sharp was found to have breached rules on pubuc found to have breached rules on public appointments in connection to a secret £800,000 loan made to boris johnson . he's loan made to boris johnson. he's since been replaced by acting bbc chairwoman dame elan closs stephens as that rounds off this s gb news bulletin, we're here across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. this is britain's news channel. >> thank you, pauline. now, there's only one place to start. bofis there's only one place to start. boris johnson told the covid inquiry that that this government had underestimated the posed by the covid in the threat posed by the covid in the threat posed by the covid in the early days of the pandemic . the early days of the pandemic. the former prime minister apologised to victims and their

families. he also said his government was frazzled as covid kept coming . and he explained kept coming. and he explained that the argumentative culture within the government wasn't a bad thing. well, i'm joined now by pip tomson, who's been there for us all day, pip. and i understand boris has just left the covid inquiry . literally. the covid inquiry. literally. >> martin, in the last minute. he has just departed. there was a lot of people waiting for him . a lot of people waiting for him. yes, the media, but also families of the bereaved as well , just waiting in the corner. it is quite a scene here this evening as the former prime minister wraps up his first day of giving evidence . he gave some of giving evidence. he gave some six hours of evidence today and he goes again tomorrow . there he goes again tomorrow. there were some jeers. i could hear as he came out . people have been he came out. people have been here all day , some forced to here all day, some forced to wait outside because there's not enough room in the in the inquiry itself. and they wanted answers. they wanted answers

from the prime minister who presided over the pandemic. from the prime minister who presided over the pandemic . and presided over the pandemic. and ihave presided over the pandemic. and i have to say that he was a lot less combative and a lot less punchy than i expected today. and there was also quite a few apologies as well . it came at apologies as well. it came at the very beginning of the heanng the very beginning of the hearing where he said he was deeply sorry for the pain and the loss of the suffering of the victims and their families. well, that wasn't good enough for people who who stood for several people who who stood up holding photographs of their loved ones. they refused to sit down and they were ejected from the room . now, in the last hour the room. now, in the last hour or so, we heard a lot about what we've heard a lot about already, but even more so today from bofis but even more so today from boris johnson about the culture within number 10 claims that it was it was full of misogyny. it was it was full of misogyny. it was toxic. and boris johnson was asked how aware he was of this. he made the point that the culture was occasionally argumentative, but that wasn't a bad thing and an atmosphere was

needed where people felt like they were able to save controversy . special things. controversy. special things. have a listen to this. >> and nobody came to me and said, you know , this is people said, you know, this is people have got complexes and internecine warfare going on here. what i saw was a culture tree that needed continuous urgent action. and it needed solutions to be found . and what solutions to be found. and what i wanted were meetings in which people could speak their minds without fear of being embarrassed or being seen to say something foolish . and that's something foolish. and that's one of the reasons, by the way , one of the reasons, by the way, why i sometimes spoke bluntly and freely in meetings. i wanted to give everybody cover to do the same . i wanted people to the same. i wanted people to feel that they could, if they had a an idea, then i wanted to

hearit. hear it. >> now, this afternoon , boris >> now, this afternoon, boris johnson was also questioned by inquiry lawyer hugo keith, kc about the former health secretary, matt hancock . we've secretary, matt hancock. we've heard already, haven't we, about the numerous times that boris johnson was urged to replace to sack him, one of those people urging him to do it was dominic cummings , his former most senior cummings, his former most senior adviser . and cummings, his former most senior adviser. and there was that claim from dominic cummings that bofis claim from dominic cummings that boris johnson wanted to keep him in position as the sacrifice of the inquiry diary. now, boris johnson flatly denied this. he said that matt hancock was doing a good job in very difficult circumstances and there was no advantage to moving him as he was urged to do. he was also quizzed , as you would expect, quizzed, as you would expect, about his decision to lock down on monday, march the 23rd, when people were ordered to stay at home. and he said by that time we'd run out of wriggle room . we

we'd run out of wriggle room. we had run out of time and baroness hallett actually asked him, she's she's chairing the inquiry . she actually asked him about whether he was persuaded by any argument against lockdown, and he said that he gave it short shrift. and then a little earlier today, boris johnson did appear to get tearful and emotional when talking about the many thousands of tragedies dunng many thousands of tragedies during this pandemic. just listen to this. we have to be realistic about 2020, the whole year , that whole tragic, tragic year, that whole tragic, tragic year, that whole tragic, tragic year , we did lockdown , but then year, we did lockdown, but then it bounced back after we'd unlocked . now as i've already unlocked. now as i've already said, there has been a families of the bereaved. there's been

wives , daughters, sons, all here wives, daughters, sons, all here today listening to what he had today listening to what he had to say. i've been speaking to them and i asked them about what they made of his apology and whether they were convinced by any of his answers. >> unfortunately , we couldn't >> unfortunately, we couldn't get in there and there's not enough seats for the families that should be centre stage . so that should be centre stage. so we're really not happy about that. we're really not happy about that . but what's been we're really not happy about that. but what's been said and stuff we've seen on our phones is just talking a load of mumbo jumbo. like he normally does, saying can't remember these, saying he can't remember these, he remember that he he can't remember that he doesn't agree with figures doesn't agree with the figures of amount that's of the amount of people that's died. and, know, where is he died. and, you know, where is he getting these from? and getting these figures from? and it's i expected be it's only what i expected to be honest, all honest, because he's lied all the through and he'll lie in the way through and he'll lie in there try and talk his way there and try and talk his way out like always does . out of it like he always does. >> it seems to say, i can't remember . >> it seems to say, i can't remember. it's easy to say , remember. it's easy to say, let's blame it on somebody else, because that's what it's been. so far. everybody's passing the

book. dodi ukip is matt hancock saying, well, he told the prime minister this and he told the prime minister that and now you've got boris johnson in there who can't remember half there who can't remember half the things that he supposed to have said or he's passing it on to somebody else. now so as you would expect, some very strong feelings here today. >> but the purpose of this inquiry is to not apportion blame. it is to learn lessons for the future . for boris. for the future. for boris. johnson continues to give evidence tomorrow we'll be here for gb news as and thanks for that update. >> pip tomson, you've been there all day. superb as ever. now i'm joined by gb news, a senior political commentator. nigel nelson. nigel, hello again to the day started with an apology. i'm deeply sorry for the pain and the loss and the suffering, said jeers for said boris. there were jeers for people were removed from the gallery. there were gallery. later on there were

tears talked about that tears as boris talked about that tragic, tragic year of 2020. nigel as somebody who's normally quite critical of boris, how do you think he did today? >> well, you're absolutely right. >> i am quite critical of him, i think. i don't think he was well, i think it was actually a pretty useless prime minister and it was unfortunate. we had him for the pandemic. him for the for the pandemic. but however, i do think that what he was saying today seemed to come from the heart. he seemed to be be being honest about about things which is often not been in the past . but often not been in the past. but so he was admitting the fact that he'd made mistakes that if he'd acted earlier, if he'd taken it more seriously, when he should have done it is possible that could been that lives could have been saved. from that point of saved. so from that point of view, i was actually quite, quite encouraged by the evidence bofis quite encouraged by the evidence boris johnson has given . and boris johnson has given. and again, it's important to know exactly what the decision making process was at the heart of downing street, because that's as pip has just said, is what the inquiry is about. it's about learning lessons rather than

blaming anybody for what went wrong. >> it's interesting, nigel, how those of us who watched it all day noticed that boris was quite restrained . in fact, when some restrained. in fact, when some of the biggest criticisms were put to him from people like dominic cummings and matt hancock, he didn't take the bait. it's almost like he's either magnanimous or he's been well versed in not saying a lot. do you think that's what's going on? he's almost trying to get through this without any controversy just move controversy and then just move on rest of his life . i on with the rest of his life. i think he's actually a very experienced politician, so he can handle things like that . can handle things like that. >> i'm not sure whether he's been schooled as such, but i do believe he's been rehearsing an awful lot, probably in the mirror to see how he might come across. as you can understand that he's given sort of 200 pages written evidence . s now pages of written evidence. s now he's to give the oral he's got to give the oral evidence without prompting . evidence without any prompting. so, yes, i'm sure that he's gone through in mind everything through in his mind everything he likely to be asked. and he was likely to be asked. and also gone through the answers he

would actually give. but yes, you're right. he was quite restrained and he was trying to explain what went on. my only criticism , i think, is a lot of criticism, i think, is a lot of it lacks detail and it's detail that we need to know how best to actually deal with a pandemic if we're unfortunate to face another one in the future . another one in the future. >> okay, nigel nelson, thanks for all your comments on that. superb. okay. we'll have lots more reaction, of course, to bofis more reaction, of course, to boris johnson's comments a little hour. and little later in this hour. and you can get lots more on that story on website, right. story on our website, right. thanks is the thanks to you. gbnews.com is the fastest national news fastest growing national news website in country. it's got website in the country. it's got breaking news and all the brilliant analysis you've come to gb news. so to expect from gb news. so thanks of you for making thanks to all of you for making that now story we that happen. now to the story we broke in this last half hour , broke in this last half hour, and that's this. the government has published emergency legislation to deem rwanda a safe destination. that report has just been published. the bill will be introduced tomorrow and is set to be rushed through the commons and it comes after home secretary james cleverly signed the new treaty in rwanda

amid efforts to remedy the concerns of the uk's highest court . however, suella braverman court. however, suella braverman is not impressed with this new legislation. a source close suella braverman said this bill doesn't come close to meeting suella tests. the prime minister has kept the ability for every single illegal migrant to make individual human rights claims against their removal and to then appeal those claims if they don't succeed. at first it is fatally flawed. it will be bogged down in the courts for months and months and it won't stop the boats . it is a further stop the boats. it is a further betrayal of tory voters and the decent, patriotic majority who want to see this insanity brought to an end. wow. suella is really not mincing her words today. now we've got a big gb news exclusive here. a rotherham grooming gang survivor has won a major legal battle over one of her abusers . and in the last few

her abusers. and in the last few minutes, boris johnson has left the covid inquiry after giving evidence all day. there's boris leaving that inquiry. i'm martin daubney on gb news and this is britain's news channel

had dup zinko weeknights from . six >> welcome back. it's 522. you're watching or listening to me? martin daubney on gb news and i'll tell you how you can

help nigel farage be crowned the king of the jungle. now to a gb news exclusive of a rotherham grooming gang survivor has won a major legal battle over one of her abusers with the high court granting her the power to sell his home in a £450,000 victory. we well , gb his home in a £450,000 victory. we well, gb news his home in a £450,000 victory. we well , gb news reporter we well, gb news reporter charlie peters has the exclusive and he joins me now in the studio. charlie fantastic news. and it seems at last common sense has been served and justice has been done. that's right. >> i mean, i've been working with this survivor for a number of years now. >> she's supported much the >> she's supported much of the channel's campaigning work. >> documentary earlier >> and our documentary earlier this year on grooming gangs , this year on grooming gangs, britain's shame this news is britain's shame and this news is fantastic , but her story is fantastic, but her story is tragic. >> just to give you a brief timeline for our viewers and listeners, liz was abused in a flat held there for ten weeks when she was just 14 in rotherham, the south yorkshire town, which was the centre of this appalling national scandal, where over 1500 sorry, 1500

girls were abused from 1997 to 2013. an appalling expose since when she got out of that flat, rescued eventually by a local campaign group in the south yorkshire town, she started to rebuild her life. but in essence, so much of her happiness and her childhood had been stolen. and it took until 2018 for her abuser , ashgar 2018 for her abuser, ashgar boston, to be jailed . he was boston, to be jailed. he was jailed for just boston, to be jailed. he was jailed forjust nine years, jailed for just nine years, which elizabeth told me felt like a slap in the face. but the scandal continued in 2020. she found out, and the ministry of justice apologised after her abuser was moved to an open prison without her being informed. and two years later, informed. and two years later, in 2022, he was released. having served just half of his sentence. this is a rapist of a child being in prison for under five years, but elizabeth says that she's finally got the justice that she deserves with this ground breaking legal case. a civil action against her rapists . in march, she secured

rapists. in march, she secured £425,000 of damages against mr boston. and now many months later, she has secured a charging order on his assets, forcing him to sell his home. that's going to come next. we understand that's the legal team's next plan. so she took away he took away her happiness, her childhood and her freedom . her childhood and her freedom. she now, some two decades later, has turned around and said, well, i'll have your house and i'll have also £450,000, because since march , when this when this since march, when this when this legal order came through at the high court, it's also accrued some interest. so an extra 25 grand will go in very nicely indeed. >> charlie peters , fantastic >> charlie peters, fantastic story. and it's one of those stories that just makes you think there is a god . you know, think there is a god. you know, it's one of those things where you just think, you know, i've spoken elizabeth, i know what spoken to elizabeth, i know what she's nothing can she's been through. nothing can bnng she's been through. nothing can bring innocence. her bring back her innocence. her life or repay what she's been through. but this is the first story of its kind and it's a fantastic result for the survivors of grooming gangs. and

it's fantastic result for it's a fantastic result for british justice. thank you, charlie. peter, superb stuff . charlie. peter, superb stuff. now, moving former home now, moving on, former home secretary suella braverman has warned the conservative party it faces electoral oblivion if it introduces a bill that's destined to fail. introduces a bill that's destined to fail . ms braverman destined to fail. ms braverman says the uk needs to leave the foreign courts and it's now or never to fix the issue of illegal migration. >> and from my time as home secretary i can say that the same human rights framework is producing insanities that the pubuc producing insanities that the public would scarce believe foreign terrorists . we can't foreign terrorists. we can't deport because of their human rights. terrorists we have to let back in because of their human rights. let foreign rapists and paedophiles who should have been removed but are released back into the community only to reoffend . yep. because only to reoffend. yep. because of their human rights. violent

criminals are pulled off deportation flights at the last minute. thanks to the help of labour mps free to wander the streets and commit further horrific crimes, including murder protesters are let off the hook for tearing down statues and gluing themselves to roads and our brave military veterans harassed through the courts some 40 years after their service . service. >> well, that was suella steaming in earlier on today in the commons. joining me now to go over this is broadcaster michael crick. michael, thanks for joining us on show. for joining us on the show. always a pleasure. it's now or neven always a pleasure. it's now or never. conservative party never. the conservative party faces oblivion in a faces electoral oblivion in a matter of months if we introduce yet another bill destined to fail . and as we speak, michael, fail. and as we speak, michael, that bill is being presented to the 1922 committee. the tories are revolting . you must be are revolting. you must be delighted . delighted. >> well , it's not for

delighted. >> well, it's not for me to be delighted or not on that particular matter, but i think she exaggerates a bit when she says the conservatives face electoral oblivion. >> but certainly i think a lot rests on this in terms of the next election . and you could see next election. and you could see the conservatives reduced to 100, 150 seats if they don't really if they don't get a grip on this because they promise to get a grip on it and the public were also promised that brexit would mean that immigration levels would come down. and of course, overall, immigration levels have soared into this country in the last year or two. and are the most of the british pubuc and are the most of the british public are very, very unhappy about that. and they are at a level in immigration levels which frankly are services. our housing cannot sustain in the long term. but whether these things can be tackled in a matter of months rather doubt, i suspect that it despite the

treaty agreed with rwanda yesterday and the legislation the government's bringing in, that it may again be blocked by the supreme court and that probably by the time of the election, even if the election is this time next year, which it may well be hardly anybody will have been flown to off rwanda. and that is serious for news rishi sunak, who promised to stop the boats . there's no way stop the boats. there's no way the boats are going to be stopped in the next 12 months, even if they get do get flights to rwanda, even if a few thousand people have flown out there, there will still be boats crossing the channel maybe fewer of them. but he won't stop the boats altogether . boats altogether. >> now, even the most optimistic conservatives are preparing themselves, bracing themselves for a painful electoral result. how much do you think today was suella braverman put putting herself forward as a potential future leader . i herself forward as a potential future leader. i think michael can't hear us. we'll get back to michael in a minute, but i'm

interested to learn from michael what the situation is with bravermans leadership campaign, because when i spoke to christopher hope earlier, there's much a feeling that there's very much a feeling that there's very much a feeling that the facing oblivion the tories are facing oblivion and she knows the facing of oblivion and she is placing herself as a potential future leader and if the leader for when and if the tories actually finally become conservative. well, there's lots more still to come between now and 6:00. and there's bad news for fighting to stop for campaigners fighting to stop migrants housed at the migrants being housed at the home of the dambusters . but home of the dambusters. but first, here's your latest news headunes first, here's your latest news headlines with polly middlehurst i >> -- >> martin thank you. the top stories this hour, emergency legislation has been published, as you've been hearing, declaring rwanda a safe country as the government pushes to revive its migrant plan . revive its migrant plan. however, a source close to suella braverman described it as fatally flawed , saying it won't fatally flawed, saying it won't stop the boats . as the former stop the boats. as the former

home secretary earlier warned, the conservative party faces electoral oblivion if it introduced a bill that's destined to fail. introduced a bill that's destined to fail . the safety of destined to fail. the safety of rwanda bill was rushed through the commons today after being introduced into parliament. but bofis introduced into parliament. but boris johnson has admitted mistakes were made during the pandemic. under his watch, the former prime minister telling the covid inquiry today that things should have been done differently and that he took full responsibility for the government's decisions . as mr government's decisions. as mr johnson for the johnson apologised for the suffering caused, saying he should have twigged earlier when the pandemic rather took hold in italy in february 2020. let's just bring you a breaking news development coming to us from south wales. we can tell you there's been an arrest . 28 year there's been an arrest. 28 year old daniel popescu has been charged with attempted murder following the stabbing of that 29 year old woman in aberfan yesterday. south wales police saying he will appear in court tomorrow. the pregnant woman was injured during the incident and is a stable condition in

hospital and a murder investigation has been launched after a woman died and two others were injured in a shooting in east london last night. leanne gordon , described night. leanne gordon, described by neighbours as being community spirited, died while a 20 year old man and a 16 year old boy were taken to hospital. the met police says it is considering the possibility the incident was gang linked and the shooting was gang linked and the shooting was gang related. no arrests been made so far. more on all those stories by heading to our website, gbnews.com . website, gbnews.com. >> for a valuable legacy, your family can own gold coins will always shine bright . rosalind always shine bright. rosalind gold proudly sponsors the gb news financial report . on news financial report. on >> let's take you through the markets then for today and the pound buying you 1.2584 usd and ,1.1664. the price of gold is

£1,611.94 an ounce and the ftse 100 has closed for the day. todayit 100 has closed for the day. today it stood at 7515 points when it closed . when it closed. >> rosalind gold proudly sponsors the gb news financial report . report. >> thank you, polly. now there's been lots of breaking news today, and christopher hope has got even more for us. christopher, what's the latest ? christopher, what's the latest? >> well, right now , the pm, >> well, right now, the pm, rishi sunak, is meeting with mps on the 1922 committee in the house of commons. i've been with him waiting , house of commons. i've been with him waiting, watching as he went in there, didn't speak to reporters for a long period as he waited to go in about 2 or 3 minutes of heaven waiting in silence knows silence because he knows this meeting really, meeting with his mps is really, really important. as we come on air right now, suella braverman, really important. as we come on air iformeryw, suella braverman, really important. as we come on air iformer homeella braverman, really important. as we come on air iformer home secretary'man, really important. as we come on air iformer home secretary who. the former home secretary who gave a resignation, should gave a resignation, i should say, personal statement speech say, a personal statement speech today says that today in the commons, says that this rwanda plan this this new rwanda plan published an hour ago from

published about an hour ago from the government come published about an hour ago from the g

a really, really important meeting happening right now between the prime minister, mr sunak, and his backbenchers to try and convince them that this is the action he is promised enough words. he knows that he's talked for a long time about the frustration about small boats crossing, not being not being deau crossing, not being not being dealt with. this is the action he has promised mps, already he has promised mps, but already suella braverman is saying it's not good enough and it won't stop the boats . the government stop the boats. the government will say to us they are. the ambition is to see the first flights taking off with people who arrived here illegally by boat to to be be boat to rwanda to to be be processed . but the word at the processed. but the word at the moment is not clear. and some ministers are on resignation. watch back to you in the studio. chris this is absolute bedlam . chris this is absolute bedlam. >> this is basically suella braverman and reiterating her concerns now verified , having concerns now verified, having looked at the actual bill in question, quite clearly , she question, quite clearly, she believes it does not muster up to passing british sovereignty. it does not muster up to british

law being supreme. it still leaves this plan very much at the mercy of the european court of human rights and the lords and the lawyers and everybody else. and the 1922 committee. this is now an open , huge revolt this is now an open, huge revolt in the party. chris well, it's not yet. >> there's only one remark from suella braverman , according to suella braverman, according to people who have read the detail of this and our lawyers, they're saying that the problem that mr jenrick might have with it against speculation, but the problem critics might have with this document is that section problem critics might have with thismecument is that section problem critics might have with thisme means is that section problem critics might have with thisme means that|at section problem critics might have with thisme means that it section problem critics might have with thisme means that it mayion problem critics might have with thisme means that it may be for me means that it may be possible to use particular individual circumstances to fight a deportation. and if that's the case, we're back to square one. we are not going to be seeing these flights taking off. i know i often say on your program, we've got a pint of beer resting on the counter. this bet between me and pm really that pint of beer really sunak. that pint of beer looks safer now it did looks safer now than it did before this was published. looks safer now than it did befypossibly was published. looks safer now than it did befy possibly crazy|s published. looks safer now than it did befy possibly crazy stuff. lished. looks safer now than it did befy possibly crazy stuff. crazyi. >> possibly crazy stuff. crazy stuff. and she talks very openly about the insane cities of

international human rights laws. in her resignation speech. chris, foreign terrorists. we can't deport because of their human rights terrorists. we have to let back in because of their human rights, foreign rapists and files who should and paedophiles files who should have been removed but are released into our released back into our communities and reoffend communities and they reoffend because of their human rights. astonishing stuff. chris, thank you for that breaking news line. we'll come back to you, of course, later in the show. now, moving on. there's bad news for campaigners fighting to stop migrants being housed at the raf air base used by the dambusters west lindsey district council has lost its high court appeal against the decision , which against the decision, which means 2000 asylum seekers are set to move into raf scampton. well our east midlands reporter will hollis is outside raf scampton . will, thanks for scampton. will, thanks for beanng scampton. will, thanks for bearing with us. it's been a lot of breaking news today. this will come as a huge kick in the teeth to the locals and especially campaigners especially me, the campaigners who so tirelessly to

who fought so tirelessly to resist this decision . resist this decision. >> yes, well, it's since march that the people of scampton , that the people of scampton, local people from lincolnshire and people from across the country have been coming and standing out front of these raf scampton gates to protest the decision by the government to use force. the famous dambusters base, to house up to 2000 asylum seekers . and it's a story we've seekers. and it's a story we've been coming back to over and over on gb news. but today we have the result from the judicial review. >> if you remember a month ago we had a two day hearing where west lindsey district council from here in lincolnshire and braintree district council from essex, as well as a local resident from braintree, went to the high court to challenge the home office on the use of scampton and whether field for housing asylum seekers . housing asylum seekers. >> and today we've heard from mrs. justice thorton, thornton , mrs. justice thorton, thornton, who dismissed the council's claims that the home office was

acting unlawfully . now, acting unlawfully. now, essentially what the claims were that this was not an emergency kc that the class q provision to use these sorts of bases for emergency measures was not unlawful? mrs. justice thornton said that the secretary of state was entitled to use raf scampton and wethersfield under those class. q measures. >> however, the mrs. justice said that the development proposed caused significant risk of community tension . of community tension. >> well, we've seen that community tension even before asylum seekers have moved into raf scampton from west lindsey district council . we've heard district council. we've heard today that it says they are disappointed and it remains firmly of the view that the site of raf scampton is not suitable for accommodating 2000 single aduu for accommodating 2000 single adult asylum seekers from braintree . we've heard that they braintree. we've heard that they are going to try to appeal the

decision. that's their intention. they've asked the high court if that's something that they can do, but ultimately the local people who've been protesting here, the local people that live on scampton camp, they're incredibly disappointed too. and one of the loudest voices is sarah carter from the save scampton campaign. and i've been hearing her reaction to the news today . reaction to the news today. >> well, the section q, which was what the court court case was what the court court case was over, would have only taken them until april. >> so they were always going to apply >> so they were always going to apply for an sdo to move forward, to use the site for three years anyway. >> the were always >> so the plans were always there to you fight that there to, you know, fight that there to, you know, fight that the west lindsey district council are going to appeal the decision. >> meantime, >> but in the meantime, we're going with lobbying the going to start with lobbying the mps was them that are mps because it was them that are going to have to vote on whether we whether the home office can use special development order. use a special development order. >> martin ann, i don't think that this is the end of the story, is getting into really cold temperatures.

>> it's winter now. >> it's winter now. >> you might be able to see in the background there is still a makeshift camp behind me where people have been spending around the six sleeping the last six months sleeping overnight is now subzero temperatures and people that i've been speaking to who are going to be sleeping here throughout winter say they're not going anywhere , although not going anywhere, although today is an incredible disappointment, particularly when thinking about the memories of the people who gave their lives . flying out from raf lives. flying out from raf scampton 75 years ago, 80 years ago, the men of the dambuster raids , it's something that is raids, it's something that is really upsetting local people and i don't think this is going to be the last time we'll be talking about it. >> martin you know, will, i think you've you've hit the nail on head there. on the head there. >> i think they've got this so wrong because not just it's wrong because it's not just it's not place. not just a space. it's a place. it's a place with historic significance. it's place that significance. it's a place that matters british people . and matters to british people. and well, it's certainly a place that matters to the local residents. what kind of things

have they been saying? what kind of words? i'd imagine big on that list will be words like betrayal . betrayal. >> well, the word that i heard most is disappoint . and i think most is disappoint. and i think that for a long time, people have had high hopes . some of the have had high hopes. some of the things that i've been hearing from people is that after that heanng from people is that after that hearing , they thought this hearing, they thought this is a done deal. we're going to win this. after listening to the arguments the home office arguments of the home office after listening the arguments after listening to the arguments of councils , people felt of the councils, people felt very upbeat about how this was going to go . but today it really going to go. but today it really is that disappointment that they have lost this part of the judicial review that the home office has acted lawfully in the eyes of the law and scampton in wethersfield can legally be used to house up to 2000 asylum seekers at each individual base. >> there will hollis , thank you >> there will hollis, thank you for that update outside raf scampton that would be a decision that's a complete kick in the teeth. we've been following this story for many,

many weeks and months. and of course as linton news and the danger first then danger is first scampton, then wethersfield , then linton on wethersfield, then linton on ouse and where next? now nigel farage lives to fight another day in the i'm a celebrity contest down under. but will the king of brexit become the king of the jungle? i'm martin daubney on gb news and this is britain's news channel.

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with me. >> john cleese sundays on .

>> john cleese sundays on. gb news. >> welcome back . it's 547. time >> welcome back. it's 547. time for a bit of fun . you're for a bit of fun. you're watching or listening to me. martin daubney on gb news. now you have noticed my you may have noticed my colleague nigel farage is of course starring i'm course currently starring in i'm a celebrity and the king of brexit wants to become the king of jungle. got of the jungle. he's got a special message for you. i'm asking you to vote. >> remain. no, seriously , vote >> remain. no, seriously, vote for to remain in the jungle for me to remain in the jungle now. >> the easiest way to do it is to get the imaceleb pretty app that gives you five free votes . that gives you five free votes. or you can phone or text right now if you want to register to vote for nigel farage, you'll need to grab your phone and scan that qr code. >> you can see there on your screen and download the i'm a celebrity app. and as nigel just said, you can vote for him five times day. go on. you know, times per day. go on. you know, it makes sense. your country needs you. mr brexit could become the king of the jungle and the remainers worst nightmare. join me now is

nightmare. well, join me now is showbiz journalist rebecca twomey. thanks for joining showbiz journalist rebecca twomey. thanks forjoining us on twomey. thanks for joining us on the another great night the show. another great night for nigel last night. in fact, his two biggest critics on the show, ben sent packing first, nellie and now french fred. fred fred got the chop and nigel lives to on fight another day . i lives to on fight another day. i know. who'd have thought it ? know. who'd have thought it? >> it's so funny how i'm really pleased how well he's coming across because i think actually in this series we've managed to separate politics from the separate the politics from the person wasn't achievable person which wasn't achievable in last year's series with matt hancock. but i think for good reason. whereas farage has sort of had rough ride in of had too rough a ride in there, and even like you said, he's too sort of main critics. >> nella—rose um, she's an onune >> nella—rose um, she's an online youtuber, very popular >> nella—rose um, she's an onlirthe)utuber, very popular >> nella—rose um, she's an onlirthe youngervery popular >> nella—rose um, she's an onlirthe younger kind popular >> nella—rose um, she's an onlirthe younger kind of)ular with the younger kind of audience members. >> then fred sirieix, he's a >> and then fred sirieix, he's a restauranteur. he's on channel four's first date. >> they were the two characters that he predominantly butted heads but farage being heads with, but farage being farage, he had himself so well in these debates. >> he didn't try and justify his

politics or his opinions. >> he just wanted he was curious to know how other people think . to know how other people think. >> and i think that's why he's done so well. in addition to flashing his behind in the shower , as you would and also shower, as you would and also last night he did a bit of last night, he also did a bit of a rendition i'm sexy for a rendition of i'm too sexy for and undid his shirt a bit. so he sort of played the entire game. >> uh, yeah . >> uh, yeah. >> uh, yeah. >> we can see pictures on screen now of nigel wooing the crowd with a kind of unorthodox, peeung with a kind of unorthodox, peeling back of his personality. he starts to sing, right? said fred's. i'm too sexy . and there fred's. i'm too sexy. and there he goes. he's tugging his. he's whipping the buttons undone. i think he's done that before. in fact, i know he's done that before i've seen do before because i've seen him do it sherbets. he's it after a few sherbets. he's getting top off there. look getting his top off there. look and he's going and and he's going for it. and i wonder, if nigel's wonder, rebecca, if nigel's playing his joker card. there it look. woof he's getting, he's getting torso out. he's not getting his torso out. he's not in bad shape for a fella his age. be said. and age. got to be said. and i wonder if this is a secret weapon. first, he's shown his down twice, now he's down under twice, and now he's being with being very upfront with the viewers. yeah. viewers. yeah yeah. >> and do you know what? that's

the fun part, is that he's shown that even if people don't agree with his politics, which i think a people do, just a lot of people do, they just don't say publicly that don't want to say publicly that they fact that he's they do. but the fact that he's just showing that he is a person, he a nice guy, he is person, he is a nice guy, he is charismatic, and he's really charismatic, and he's got really stuck into a celebrity stuck into i'm a celebrity rather than wanting to try and win younger members and voters and audience members to his sort of ideology. he's actually just, i think, been himself and been quite fun. and that's what we want. it's an entertainer tainment show. i'm a celebrity has been around for two decades and people want to be entertained. and that's exactly what nigel done . and i think what nigel has done. and i think a lot of people will be quite resentful of that not like resentful of that and not like the he's the fact that actually he's quite guy, don't you think? >> and you reckon that those >> and do you reckon that those pictures of nigel getting his kit off and tap dancing around and singing are they the kind of thing that will that will make him more popular or could they come back to bite him on the bum if he tries to get a serious political career going again ?

political career going again? >> i mean, ijust think i don't think it's deliberate. >> i think now is so much reality tv audience. audiences are very savvy when someone is faking it , are very savvy when someone is faking it, when someone is trying to win people over, not being sincere and genuine. i think more so than ever, particularly in tv, it's so transparent. and with nigel, i think what you're seeing is what you i think that was you get. i don't think that was a people over. a ploy to win people over. i think was just him messing think that was just him messing around, wants around, being he wants to be. it's not like he jeopardised any of political beliefs or of his political beliefs or embarrassed himself. he actually showed laugh embarrassed himself. he actually sh thed laugh embarrassed himself. he actually sh the right laugh embarrassed himself. he actually sh the right time. laugh embarrassed himself. he actually sh the right time. and laugh embarrassed himself. he actually sh the right time. and that'saugh at the right time. and that's what i think people want to see the human side of him. so i think from an entertainment perspective, he's been brilliant. and from a political perspective it matter perspective, why does it matter when what some of our when we look at what some of our politicians did partying during lockdowns? allowed lockdowns? i think we're allowed you know, nigel might have a foray after foray back into politics after i'm celebrity and i think, you i'm a celebrity and i think, you know, why not? >> okay. rebecca twomey, thanks for the and for joining us on the show. and it's time of day when it's that time of day when michelle dewberry hove interviewed seems to be interviewed always seems to be that come into view when that you come into view when nigel something

inappropriate. because i'm desperate >> it's because i'm desperate to just repeat glimpse of just see any repeat glimpse of the skin of nigel farage. >> i'll give it five minutes when he's out the jungle before he starts selling renditions of him singing i'm too sexy as a ringtone for people to be able to download. going to download. it's going to happen. hasn't that happen. if he hasn't had that idea yet, have it for idea yet, he can have it for free from me. that's what i say. but good. i very pleased but good. i was very pleased when got kept in the jungle when he got kept in the jungle last night. i've never voted in a show in all my a reality tv show in all of my life, like fastest life, but i'm like fastest finger first with on my app. with five free votes, i just with my five free votes, i just want him to win. i think it'd be hilarious. all many hilarious. really annoy all many , many people. actually. i was going people, going to say, all people, but just people. will annoy, just many people. it will annoy, i'm sure. anyway, there's been so on today , hasn't so much going on today, hasn't there? managed stay awake . there? i managed to stay awake. the covid didn't send me the covid inquiry didn't send me to sleep. a bit dull. >> i thought. i thought boris was expert saying not lot. >> well , i lot. >> well, i think you're either into these kind of things or you're not. and if you're not, don't you worry . we've got the don't you worry. we've got the best bits we'll be looking at whether or not these whole

things are pointless. will things are pointless. what will be are they be the outcome of it? are they even asking the right questions? because there's so much because to me, there's so much assumption because to me, there's so much assumpticthing the right lockdown thing was the right approach need approach anyway, to me, you need to rewind a little bit to kind of rewind a little bit and digging deeper into the and be digging deeper into the concept of was locked down the right i don't care right thing because i don't care about tittle about all the tittle tattle between. this and he between. he said this and he used language and toxic used that language and toxic that bothered. want to that bothered. what i want to know there's a pandemic know is if there's a pandemic going would lockdown going forward, would lockdown even going forward, would lockdown ever, ever, ever be permissible ' 7 m. again? >> and i was a bit disappointed because a lot of people thought bofis because a lot of people thought boris was going to come out today as like a libertarian that wanted a swedish style wanted a more swedish style approach. was approach. but actually he was saying sooner. >> soonen >> well, yeah. soonen >> hell, yeah. soonen >> i mean, ah. soonen >> i mean, i1. soonen >> i mean, i mean, how do you even know what's believed? because whatsapps because after the whatsapps mysteriously , we're mysteriously and whatnot, we're not there. but anyway, not even there. but anyway, i want get into that also, want to get into that also, james to take james cleverly is about to take to feet in parliament as to his feet in parliament as well and talk his new well and talk about his new emergency legislation. emergency rwanda legislation. so i to unpick that course. i want to unpick that course. suella giving her speech today, i mean, very damning stuff from suella, so i want to explore that as well. she's got some goodideas that as well. she's got some good ideas about these makeshift

detention facilities the detention facilities and all the rest think people will rest of it. i think people will really like it. and i also like the she's coming out and the fact she's coming out and saying like over saying stuff like work over christmas, these things christmas, get these things done, christmas. done, work over christmas. i also this, also want to explore this, a poll interesting , very poll very interesting, very controversial. say, controversial. i've got to say, many young people are saying that actually freedom that hamas are actually freedom fighters terror ists who fighters are not terror ists who i want to unpick that one as well. and by the way, are you happy? yes good. there's a survey out looking how happy survey out looking at how happy and content we all survey out looking at how happy and so content we all survey out looking at how happy and so i'll content we all survey out looking at how happy and so i'll be content we all survey out looking at how happy and so i'll be sprinklingt we all survey out looking at how happy and so i'll be sprinkling ave all are. so i'll be sprinkling a little bit of happiness in my program as well. >> lots program as well. >> okay. there'll be lots of happiness & co coming happiness on dewbs& co coming right after the break. be right after the break. i'll be back tomorrow. thanks for joining martin joining us. i'm ben martin daubney. dewberry joining us. i'm ben martin daubney. co dewberry joining us. i'm ben martin daubney. co . dewberry joining us. i'm ben martin daubney. co . a dewberry joining us. i'm ben martin daubney. co . a brighterewberry joining us. i'm ben martin daubney. co . a brighter outlook on dewbs& co. a brighter outlook with box solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello again. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast. it's cold out there. at first this afternoon, but it does turn wetter from the west through the evening and overnight winds will increase.

those coming from the those winds coming from the atlantic bringing milder but also more unsettled weather over the next few days. low pressure returning from the west and the rain is already setting in across parts of northern ireland, western fringes of england, wales and western scotland. now, as that rain bumps into the colder air, further east, there will be some hill snow over the pennines and more especially the grampians where centimetres of snow where a few centimetres of snow could cause issues could cause some issues over some of the higher routes of scotland. at lower levels scotland. but at lower levels it's because we're seeing it's rain because we're seeing milder air pile from the milder air pile in from the west. 2 to 4 degrees by the end of in the east, 8 to of the night. in the east, 8 to 10 for the west for march . 10 for the west for march. temperature contrast still the chance patches for chance of some icy patches for scotland and northern england first thursday. but by the first thing thursday. but by the time we get to the afternoon, it's grey and wet in many places. the winds picking up showers for the northern isles and actually for east anglia and the south—east. dry the far south—east. it stays dry until later in the afternoon. but it's heavy, but elsewhere it's heavy, persistent rain moving through 11 to 13 degrees in the far south—west. staying chilly,

though, 5 to 7 further north. and east with that rain setting in, friday is another unsettled day. we've got an area of low pressure and spiralling bands of rain or showers, circular around it. blustery winds on it. also blustery winds on friday with the chance of some strong gusts in the west. similar conditions lasting through the weekend that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on .

her resignation speech today. i can tell you she did not hold back. she had suggestions, for example , and things like example, and things like building makeshift detention centres for migrants. and regarding all of these stupid legal challenge roundabouts, whatever we want to call them, she asked a very prominent question who governs britain ? question who governs britain? and speaking of legal challenges , the government got the go ahead to use bases like raf scampton to house around 2000 migrants. do you agree with that decision? and over in the covid inquiry, boris johnson was in

the hot seat there with you.