cancelled. so one will be cancelled. so joining me in an hour's time broadcast writer and journalist danny kelly, and also broadcaster and author christine hamilton. in a few moments, we'll be heading head to head in the clash of minds with peter edwards, former editor of the labourlist, and lord daniel moylan , conservative peer and moylan, conservative peer and but before we do that, let's get your latest news with tatiana . nana. >> thank you. your top stories from the newsroom. gb news understands tomorrow , tory mps understands tomorrow, tory mps will give their verdict on whether the rwanda bill is workable . all conservative mps, workable. all conservative mps, sir bill cash, will present the findings ahead of the crunch second vote on tuesday . the second vote on tuesday. the prime minister has come under pressure after it was discovered he paid £240 million towards the plan without a single flight taking off. tory sources say the mps will decide whether to support the legislation tomorrow or if necessary, hold a second meeting ahead of the vote at the

labour leader will warn the tories can no longer govern the country because warring camps are, as he describes, fighting like rats in a sack in a speech on the same day as the scheduled vote on the government's rwanda policy , he'll claim it's labour policy, he'll claim it's labour that shares britain's values. shadow work pensions shadow work and pensions secretary liz kendall told broadcast hours labour would scrap the rwanda plan in favour of new scheme , including an of a new scheme, including an elite cross border force to stop illegal migration. despite the pressures over the £290 million policy that's been marred by legal challenges, the prime minister called on labour to back his emergency legislation . back his emergency legislation. israeli tanks are battling to reach gaza's main southern city after ordering civilians to evacuate khan younis was hit by heavy bombardment overnight as the israel defence forces advanced. israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu says international calls to end the war are inconsistent . but war are inconsistent. but briefing his cabinet, he told the leaders of france, germany and other countries, you cannot

on the one hand support the elimination of hamas and on the other pressure us to end the war, which would stop the elimination of the terror group . elimination of the terror group. a mother has been charged with manslaughter after her two sets of twins died in a house fire in south london in 2021. the children , aged three and four, children, aged three and four, were home when the ground floor of the house became engulfed in flames. they were treated at the scene before being taken to two south london hospitals where they were pronounced dead. police say 29 year old devika rose is also charged with child abandoned aunt and she's expected to appear in court tomorrow . the mayor of london tomorrow. the mayor of london says the met police is chronically underfunded in a letter to the home secretary. sadiq khan says london faces unique pressures as a capital city. he's urging the home office to boost the force's finances , as he says the finances, as he says the underfunding is highlighting by the challenge of the policing protests over the conflict in gaza and israel. mr khan warns

the funding gap could now be as high as £240 million. the funding gap could now be as high as £240 million . baroness high as £240 million. baroness michelle mone says she made an error in publicly denying her links to the ppe firm medpro. it was awarded government contracts worth more than £200 million to supply personal protective equipment after she recommended it to ministers. the national crime agency is investigating the firm and its connection to the firm and its connection to the conservative peer. lady mone argues she's being used as a scapegoat by the government for its own covid failings . a judge its own covid failings. a judge has ordered the bbc to release emails related to martin bashir's controversial 1995 interview with princess diana. mr bashir officially stepped down from his job at the broadcaster in 2021 after it emerged he had secured the interview through deception and faking documents. judge brian kennedy said the corporation had been inconsistent and unreliable

, able in the way it dealt with the initial request to release material under the freedom of information act . the material information act. the material related to how the broadcaster handled the scandal when it came to light . in handled the scandal when it came to light. in 2020 and handled the scandal when it came to light . in 2020 and fresh, to light. in 2020 and fresh, whether warnings have been issued as storm fergus sweeps across the country. yellow warnings for rain have been issued for the north—east of england, south—east and scotland and north western scotland . a and north western scotland. a yellow rain warning covering carlisle to sheffield is in place from 5:00 this afternoon until 3:00 tomorrow morning . until 3:00 tomorrow morning. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on your digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. now back to . nana by saying play gb news. now back to. nana thank by saying play gb news. now back to . nana thank you by saying play gb news. now back to. nana thank you , by saying play gb news. now back to . nana thank you , tatiana. to. nana thank you, tatiana. >> it's fast approaching. six minutes after 3:00. this is a gb news on tv online and on digital radio. now, before we get stuck into our head to head over the

next hour, let me introduce you to my panel. so joining me today is former editor of the labourlist, peter edwards, and also conservative and also conservative peer and former johnson, former adviser to boris johnson, lord daniel moylan. so lord daniel moylan. right. so here's what's coming up in head to head. could the tories be wiped out at the next general election? as professor john curtice says, the tories could be reduced to as little as 130 seats. is there any hope left for them? and then is rishi sunak's new bill doomed to fail as the star chamber of right wing mps say that the plan isn't watertight ? could this be the watertight? could this be the bill that sinks sunak? of course we're referring to rwanda. and then could boris johnson return as prime minister alongside nigel farage? many want him back as one as the one man who could perhaps beat sir keir starmer and if he partnered with nigel farage. well, could that be a dream ticket? and is it end game for end game as scobie or scooby—doo as some people call him? his book flops in the us,

it's little italy at the bottom of the list. i think it's on about 700 and something on the amazon list. but could this signal the end of the road for harry and meghan as their star power finally runs out? all of that coming up in the next hour. tell me what you think on everything we're discussing. email gb views at gbnews.com or tweet me at . gb news. so first tweet me at. gb news. so first up, rishi sunak. tweet me at. gb news. so first up, rishi sunak . conservatives up, rishi sunak. conservatives could record the worst outcome in the party's history at the next election by collapsing to as few as 130 seats as the issue of immigration threatens to destroy the party. so john curtice of the university of strathclyde has said that the immediately prior to the announcement of the new policies on immigration last week, the tories were still on just 26% in the polls , with labour enjoying the polls, with labour enjoying a 17 point lead. he said that if these patents were to be replicated in a general election, the outcome for the

conservatives could be bleak . conservatives could be bleak. indeed, maybe as few as 130 seats. now this would be the worst outcome in the party's history. so joining me now is sir john curtice, professor of politics at the university of strathclyde. so this is a somewhat worrying moment for the conservative party what are the main things that have impacted? i mean, there's been a lot going on, but i thought rishi sunak had a few moments where he sort of bounced up a bit. so for example, the move with the 30, 20, 35 for gas boilers and also electric cars . electric cars. >> i hate to tell you, nana, but the truth is that if you go all the truth is that if you go all the way back to where the conservative party stood in the opinion polls before those announcements to which you have just referred , the conservatives just referred, the conservatives were at 26 points in the opinion polls, 18 points behind labour in the polling that was done before the announcements on immigration last week . the immigration last week. the conservatives were still on 26,

although they were now just 17 points behind labour because labour was a point down on the middle of last september. meanwhile, we have had three opinion polls conducted so far since the announced points last week on immigration and one of them shows no change. the other shows conservatives down one, and the last one show the conservatives is down three. so, so far , at least, it looks so far, at least, it looks unlikely that the announcement on immigration, both legal and illegal, is going to move the polls any more than have the various other announcements and attempted resets during the course of the autumn . and the course of the autumn. and the truth is that the conservative party under rishi sunak is finding it extremely difficult to recover from the pretty dire inheritance that mr sunak took on from liz truss. the party's position has never been that much better in the polls than there was after ms truss departed , and that's just departed, and that's just seemingly been underlined by the

way in which repeated attempts to try and seize the initiative haven't seemingly moved the dial. >> well, what about where were they when boris was in charge? because they must rue the day that they got rid of him, because usually you get rid of a leader to do better. >> well, the truth is that by the time boris johnson was leaving downing street at the back end of august, the conservatives at that point were around between eight and ten points behind in the polls. so you are right, things are not as bad now as they were then. and you certainly might want to argue that the conservatives will rue the day that they decided to make liz truss, his successor because that was the event at liz truss's fiscal event at liz truss's fiscal event and the associated reaction, the financial markets that resulted in labour having the kind of double digit lead they've had for the last for the last year or so . but the truth last year or so. but the truth

is that partygate was the moment and the first revelations about partygate at the beginning of december 2021 was was the moment when for the first time the conservatives fell behind labour in the polls . and, you know, in the polls. and, you know, part of the legacy that the conservatives are now trying to deal with, yes. is liz truss. but the other half of the legacy they're trying to deal with and they're trying to deal with and the damage that was done is indeed johnson. the indeed boris johnson. the revelations partygate were revelations about partygate were the , as it the first moment when, as it were, the conservatives fell behind in the polls for the first time, something from which they've never recovered. >> argue some of >> but you could argue some of these are way off the these polls are way off the mark. experience, does mark. in your experience, does this feel like this poll could be way off the mark? >> well , look, be way off the mark? >> well, look, i'm not looking at one poll here. this is taking an average actually. we're typically getting 9 typically now getting 8 or 9 polls a week. i will be the first one in tiley to admit to you that it may well be that the polls are exaggerating. labour's position. but let's put it like this as if the polls on average

have labour 1717 ahead, even if we were to think the worst possible error, maybe labour are only ten points ahead. that's still not going to be enough for the conservative party to form the conservative party to form the next administration. the honest truth is the conservative party does really need to turn things around. now the point behind the projection i did in the sunday telegraph today saying that perhaps at the moment conservatives are heading for 130 seats was really , for 130 seats was really, frankly, just to point out some arithmetic inevitability. if indeed and i accept it's if the conservatives were to fall to 26% in the polls, and that's what we're perhaps looking for, an immediate general election. there are 66 constituencies in which the fall in the conservative vote since 2019. that's the 26% implies, i.e. 19 points couldn't happen because the conservatives didn't get 19% of the vote in these constituencies in 2019. in other words , if the conservative vote

words, if the conservative vote falls on the scale to which the polls are currently pointing, they are going to end up losing votes. more heavily in seats that they are trying to defend than the 19 point drop in the national polls. and i can show you one large mega poll that suggests that's indeed what's going on. or if you look at the results of last may's local elections, again, it was clear that the conservatives were losing ground more heavily in places they were places where they were previously strongest, and that's how you potentially end up with an outcome of 130 seats. and in an outcome of 130 seats. and in a sense , what i was primarily a sense, what i was primarily trying to suggest to conservative mps is that if indeed there is a risk that you're going to rock the rishi sunak boat so substantially that you might end up perhaps accidentally precipitating an early general action that perhaps is a fate that you really do need to avoid, because at the moment, at least you need to be aware of the risks that indeed the party could be heading for its worst ever

defeat in an early election. >> crikey. well sirjohn defeat in an early election. >> crikey. well sir john curtis, thank you so much for talking to us. great piece, by the way. you're welcome. enjoyed that. thank you. that was , of course, thank you. that was, of course, sir john curtis is the professor of university of of politics at the university of strathclyde. right so let me welcome again head to head welcome again to my head to head as edwards, former editor as peter edwards, former editor of the labourlist and also lord daniel former adviser to daniel moylan, former adviser to bofis daniel moylan, former adviser to boris johnson. daniel, going borisjohnson. daniel, i'm going to start with you. oh, your thoughts on this then, because the polls say that the conservative party are really heading for a landslide defeat. in your view, is there any way you think they could perhaps resurrect this ? resurrect this? >> oh, i think it's going to be extremely difficult. >> i mean, the polls have been consistently , as sir john curtis consistently, as sir john curtis said , have been consistently said, have been consistently more or less the same since rishi became prime minister. >> and he's tried to turn things round without success. >> the polls remain more or less where they are. >> i don't know the complicated calculations by which those percentages get turned into

seats. i mean, i'd leave that to an expert like sirjohn. whether an expert like sir john. whether that's going to be somewhere between anywhere between 100 and 200 seats, i wouldn't know . if 200 seats, i wouldn't know. if he says 130, i'll go with that . he says 130, i'll go with that. but certainly a prospect but that's certainly a prospect at . it i'm not sure at the moment. it i'm not sure that i at the moment. it i'm not sure thati can at the moment. it i'm not sure that i can see what is going to make it better. and one of the things that worries me is i think people stop listening to the conservative party in some way so it doesn't what way so it doesn't matter what they what we say, they they say, what we say, they they're not really listening to us anymore. but i do think that if we don't get the small boats issue sorted, then we're certainly toast because it's not only is it an immigration issue , only is it an immigration issue, it's a competence issue. you know, it's one of your five pledges, one of rishi sunaks five pledges you promised you'd deliver on it. >> and it's visible . >> and it's visible. >> and it's visible. >> we can see it . >> we can see it. >> the other pledges are a little bit more fuzzy. not quite so visible, but we can see this. are people still landing in small boats and if you don't

actually sort it out, then i think you are in a very, very difficult position indeed. >> madness for him to say that he was going to stop them. i don't know what he was thinking. peter edwards well, labour won't be complacent. >> to take it for >> they'll be mad to take it for granted. they've been granted. well they've been complacent of this complacent for a lot of this though, they? though, haven't they? >> they haven't to >> i mean, they haven't had to do anything, mean, do anything, frankly. i mean, i don't blame them, but labour have not been complied. >> time talk to labour >> every time you talk to labour activists, party staffer, an >> every time you talk to labour acti\they're party staffer, an >> every time you talk to labour acti\they're they're affer, an >> every time you talk to labour acti\they're they're superan >> every time you talk to labour acti\they're they're super risk mp, they're they're super risk averse. >> they take nothing for granted in lifetime. know, in my lifetime. you know, labour's lost a lot of elections, so curtis is elections, so john curtis is obviously hugely knowledgeable, highly notable that he caveated >> it's notable that he caveated what quite carefully. >> so there's one scenario where tories 130 seats, but tories go down 130 seats, but sir john curtis didn't predict sirjohn curtis didn't predict that. he said if x, y and that. he just said if x, y and z happens and that could be one outcome. say a couple of outcome. let me say a couple of other things. first of all, the starting for labour, starting point for labour, daniel's have daniel's right. labour have a consistent poll lead which moves around. starting point consistent poll lead which moves armuch starting point consistent poll lead which moves ar much than rting point consistent poll lead which moves armuch than in1g point consistent poll lead which moves armuch than in 1997 int consistent poll lead which moves ar much than in 1997 when is much worse than in 1997 when tony blair got a majority of 179. the last general election under corbyn, labour went

backwards to the starting point is much worse . i think the worry is much worse. i think the worry for rishi sunak would be that what his advisers call moments, key moments have not made a difference. so the party conference speech, the budget, the cabinet reshuffle, these moments haven't really delivered much of a change the polls . much of a change in the polls. so that i think what will worry rishi sunaks team, because i don't see them really i can't imagine what they can do to change things up. >> in particular, the fact >> and in particular, the fact that sunak appear that rishi sunak didn't appear to his advisors with to listen to his advisors with grant to rwanda to sort of tighten up that policy. we'll be talking about that in a little a little while. but who do you think is mopping up a lot of these votes then? because if we do see a huge landslide , do you do see a huge landslide, do you get the sense that people will go to reform or do you get the sense just go for labour? >> well, clearly, people, >> well, clearly, some people, according some according to the polls, some people to the reform people are going to the reform party, is up on around 10, party, which is up on around 10, which large for that party. which is large for that party. >> call it reform , call it >> call it reform, call it brexit party, call it ukip for a general election. >> that's quite a large number

for them. and clearly people are moving in that direction . moving in that direction. >> i think quite a lot of conservative voters moving conservative voters are moving to at home. to stay at home. >> i think a lot of people who won't actually go and vote , won't actually go and vote, whereas i think i imagine the labour vote will be quite strong. >> i mean, people who want labour will will turn out because they'll feel this is their chance get a labour their chance to get a labour government that they want . government that they want. >> so i don't know quite where they're all going, but some are going to reform and some are staying at home. >> i think a lot of people have slightly up on of this slightly given up on all of this because was a moment where because there was a moment where the and the the labour party and the conservative party seemed to be literally thing literally the same thing and there very little there are very little differences the two differences between the two parties. what are the main parties. well, what are the main differences in policy for the main policies? so for example, rwanda pizza, because i'm still at a to understand what the at a loss to understand what the labour party are planning do labour party are planning to do about that. well i've spent most of adult life the labour of my adult life in the labour party to me, labour and party and to me, labour and tories have never looked the same. >> but i do understand some people disenchanted with people are disenchanted with politics. take view and

politics. do take that view and it's the job of the it's kind of the job of the parliamentary party sort of parliamentary party and sort of low like me to try low grade people like me to try and persuade otherwise. on and persuade them otherwise. on rwanda, would rwanda, labour's said they would not with and they'd not go ahead with it and they'd use money, which seems to be use the money, which seems to be rising every month in setting use the money, which seems to be ri newevery month in setting use the money, which seems to be ri new directorateh in setting use the money, which seems to be ri new directorate withintting use the money, which seems to be ri new directorate within the| a new directorate within the national agency to tackle national crime agency to tackle some issues around some of these issues around illegal migration. >> with us. >> well, listen, stay with us. we've loads more to discuss. we've got loads more to discuss. thank that, peter. it's thank you for that, peter. it's just up to 19 minutes just coming up to 19 minutes after 3:00. is gb news on after 3:00. this is gb news on tv, and on digital radio. tv, online and on digital radio. i who are you going to i mean, who are you going to vote for? do you do you trust any the parties? are you any of the parties? are you going for someone going to go for someone completely different? will it be like where we find like argentina, where we find a brand new party literally emerging? so coming up, though, what think this? could what do you think of this? could bofis what do you think of this? could boris prime minister boris return as prime minister some hoping that some tories mps are hoping that he'll nigel farage. he'll team up with nigel farage. could that potentially save them at election ? next, at the next election? next, though, as the star chamber finds rishi sunak's rwanda plans are not scratch. could are not up to scratch. could this bill sink sunak's time

isabel monday to thursdays from. six till 930 . to 23 minutes six till 930. to 23 minutes after three. >> welcome aboard. if you've just tuned in, this is gb news. we are the people's channel. i'm nana akua and we're going head to head and doing that this hour is former editor of the is the former editor of the labourlist, peter edwards. also conservative daniel conservative peer, lord daniel moylan. so the next topic is star chamber of conservative lawyers have concluded that rishi sunak's rwanda deportation plans are not fit for purpose. now the group made up of right

wing mps from the european research group, the new conservative and the common sense group came to the conclusion that the bill will fail in its objectives to provide the legal protection needed to allow deportation flights to take off for rwanda . flights to take off for rwanda. peter daniel, what do you think? i'm going to start with you, peter . peter. >> i don't think it's morally the right thing to do because i think it's outsourcing our responsibilities. but on a purely practical level, it seems like to happen. like it's not going to happen. i'm saying it's dead, it i'm not saying it's dead, but it seems unlikely. the seems unlikely. and if the proverbial alien landed from proverbial alien had landed from mars say, the mars and you say, well, the british government do british government tried to do something involving sending people 2021, and it people to rwanda in 2021, and it wasn't successful, they tried again 2022 and it wasn't again in 2022 and it wasn't successful. they tried again in 2023 and it wasn't successful. you know, it just seems very unlikely to work . we're spending unlikely to work. we're spending more money and i think my other concern is really that it eats up air time in the tory party who are still the governing party and there's about 26 to 28,000 people crossed the channel this year in small

boats. even if the rwanda policy is successful, which i hope it won't be, it would only be to send a few hundred. so it's a minuscule proportion. >> but the argument is that the few hundred won't prepared to few hundred won't be prepared to be hundred. if be the first few hundred. so if you're spend 510 grand you're going to spend 510 grand getting on a dinghy to go across the channel and you know that plan operating and you know plan is operating and you know that one of first, that you'll be one of the first, then you're going to want to then you're not going to want to do that. and the was to do that. and the idea was to break the smugglers so break the smugglers model. so that break the smugglers model. so tha well, that's my i'll be >> well, that's my i'll be interested to hear daniel's thoughts, but i suspect people interested to hear daniel's thou are ;, but i suspect people interested to hear daniel's thou are desperate;pect people interested to hear daniel's thou are desperate enough ople interested to hear daniel's thou are desperate enough to e who are desperate enough to embark on such a journey aren't. and this not meant to and this is not meant to be sarcastic, just not sarcastic, just are not following going in following what's going on in british politics. they're not following they're british politics. they're not foll�*following they're british politics. they're not foll�*following house hey're not following the house of lords. they have immediate lords. they have more immediate concerns. deterrent concerns. so the deterrent factor, i think, fades away. >> succinctly >> peter, just very succinctly told doesn't want to hear told me he doesn't want to hear what i have to say. daniel, i absolutely disagree about the approach. >> fact is that >> i think the fact is that if you were to spend just say you were going to spend just say you're to spend £10,000 or you're going to spend £10,000 or £5000 or something on a canbbean £5000 or something on a caribbean and you were caribbean cruise, and you were told was reasonable told there was a reasonable chance wouldn't be

chance that you wouldn't be going caribbean cruise, going on the caribbean cruise, you'd fortnight you'd be spending a fortnight locked up clacton . you'd and locked up in clacton. you'd and you wouldn't get your money back. you'd think very, very carefully before you actually spend that money. and that's not a you know, people might a very you know, people might say it's a frivolous, frivolous comparison, that sort comparison, but it's that sort of and i think don't of thing. and i think you don't need to a lot of them in need to spend a lot of them in order that deterrent order to have that deterrent effect. people do know effect. and people do know what's and course, what's happening. and of course, it's government's it's our job, the government's job sure they know job to make sure they know what's happening because they're sitting on other side sitting there on the other side of channel. i mean, they can of the channel. i mean, they can have leaflets, have have leaflets, they can have messages distributed to them telling what's telling them this is what's happening. they want to see newspapers if they want to see it. they've mobile it. they've all got mobile phones. they're watching what's happening so happening on the news. so i think think the approach is think i think the approach is right, i but i think it's right, i think but i think it's possible to overhype what's actually at moment actually happening at the moment in conservative party. in the conservative party. so i haven't the detailed. haven't read the detailed. i don't think anyone's even seen the detailed opinion the detailed legal opinion that's produced by this that's been produced by this so—called star chamber. but it appears from the newspaper reports that they're saying that the bill is sort of 90% okay,

but has left a few loopholes open, which through amendments, could be changed. now, that isn't a reason for voting. the bill down on tuesday, which is second reading, that would kill the bill completely. that's a reason for letting it through . reason for letting it through. tabling amendments in the tabling the amendments in the new year when the bill is in its committee stage and report stage and then seeing if they get through then and taking a view at point. the same, you at that point. and the same, you know, nation group, know, the one nation group, i think they have, they they do accept, i think , most of them, accept, i think, most of them, that this policy of rwanda is the government's policy. and is the government's policy. and is the policy they're signed up to. their concern about, again, their marginal type, their issues about does it just go too far in a certain direction, whereas the others is it going quite far enough? so it's a gap rather than a great clash of principle . so i in a way think principle. so i in a way think that there's quite a good chance that, you know, is this the rishi moment where he loses the vote? that's possible on tuesday. but i don't think

that's really what we're heading for. >> but could it not be blocked by the house of lords? >> but then it will absolutely be blocked. i'm sure it will be blocked by the house of lords. and there's nothing the government can do on current timetables. advised to get timetables. i'm advised to get it through house of lords, it through the house of lords, even end the even though in the end the commons can always force its will on the house of lords, there is a process for doing that. very rarely used, but through the parliament acts. but there are timetables built into there are timetables built into the parliament act, which i think i understand. it's now very difficult, if not impossible , for the government impossible, for the government to achieve before either a general election. so so , so the general election. so so, so the lords i think will almost certainly block the bill as it stands because they're right up, you know, they've got this thing about rule of law, which is their conception of rule of law, which is a modern european conception that isn't british at all, but they're foisting on everybody . everybody. >> but is saying that it's

>> but peter is saying that it's immoral we're immoral and that we're outsourcing our responsibility. why? why is that immoral? where would you put you know, if you have a lot of people coming rather than sort of encouraging others to come across, you have to do something about that to deter so what would the deter people. so what would the labour party do then ? labour party do then? >> well, first on the first point, why is it immoral so i've i've been to rwanda and i'm conscious that many people with some the this is not some of the most this is not a jibe at daniel, but some of the people were the most strident opinions have knowledge opinions have no knowledge of rwanda. i don't believe rwanda after has the after a genocide, has the infrastructure to deal with this. >> well, there was a genocide. i mean, the germans, there was a genocide in germany. we've forgiven still we're forgiven that. and still we're moving with the moving and working with the germans. wasn't long germans. and it wasn't long after that we carried on after that that we carried on working with them. >> genocide, >> well, the rwandan genocide, as as it was, was lot as horrific as it was, was a lot more recent, sadly, than the second war. anyway sorry, second world war. anyway sorry, but but that's but those but that's but that's but those sort aren't we were sort of things, aren't we were probably with germany sort of things, aren't we were proba quickly with germany sort of things, aren't we were proba quickly aftervith germany sort of things, aren't we were proba quickly after the germany sort of things, aren't we were proba quickly after the genocide i >> -- >> that's 5mm em >> that's what i'm saying. so even now you're going, even though now you're going, oh, a long time ago.

oh, well it was a long time ago. yeah what period time did yeah but what period of time did it to start working with it take us to start working with germany after the genocide? so that's saying here. germany after the genocide? so tha well, saying here. germany after the genocide? so tha well, britain, aying here. germany after the genocide? so tha well, britain, iling here. germany after the genocide? so tha well, britain, i mean, re. >> well, britain, i mean, britain, obviously the number of people in the second people lost both in the second world the holocaust world war and in the holocaust were horrific . britain was were truly horrific. britain was involved in reconstruction even within germany, fairly early on, and there was a british presence in germany for many years afterward . but that was about afterward. but that was about reconstructing a kind of a shattered germany. so i think it's a very different scenario to, well, we are in a sense, going in and building something in rwanda prisoners, for in rwanda for our prisoners, for people prisoners, but people in rwanda for our prisoners, for pethave prisoners, but people in rwanda for our prisoners, for pethave come)ners, but people in rwanda for our prisoners, for pethave come to rs, but people in rwanda for our prisoners, for pethave come to this ut people in rwanda for our prisoners, for pethave come to this country.e who have come to this country via the channel what many will deem as illegally. >> and they are they're being processed. i can't see us working with them. there's no any different to us. working with germany a couple of years after, you know, like you're saying, it's moral grounds. so i'm just challenging your grounds morality. grounds for morality. >> because >> completely different because this is not britain saying we're going to invest in rwanda because we need to support them, although british, although to be fair, british,

they are have have done that. they done. they are have have done that. theyes, done. they are have have done that. theyes, part)ne. they are have have done that. theyes, part of�*. they are have have done that. theyes, part of the commonwealth >> yes, part of the commonwealth as we have been as well. so we have been investing that. as well. so we have been inv> yes, i think it would. and i'm not comfortable with the idea. >> that's more interesting idea outsourcing. >> it's not outsourcing if it's to british or another island. i mean, lee anderson, a presenter

on this channel and a conservative, i think he's a backbenchen conservative, i think he's a backbencher, chairman, backbencher, he's vice chairman, talked sending talked briefly about sending illegal to a british illegal immigrants to a british island somewhere in the island like somewhere in the outer hebrides or in the shetlands. i mean, i'm very dubious about that as well. i think the concept of putting people on an island because the state doesn't is not equipped to deal with them is they're not meant to. >> but that that is where the state would deal with them. that is where they could be processed. and processed and returned from there. whereas at the moment that doesn't happen and there's not a dumping ground. >> why can't is a dumping ground? >> it's a processing area. >> it's a processing area. >> well, britain, why is it if it's in one part of britain or another, why does it matter? >> at least you'd have a processing area where they could be processed and sent away. >> okay. why does it matter >> okay. so why does it matter why i'm against i think, why i'm against it? i think, one, because it's demeaning to individuals. two, individuals. i think two, because the british state because it's the british state failing fill duties. failing to fill its duties. three expensive and four three is very expensive and four is not working. remember, labour had quote we sent more home

had this quote we sent more home secretaries to rwanda than illegal migrants. >> yeah, well, that's of >> yeah, well, that's because of all challenges. all the legal challenges. >> a rwanda >> that's that is a rwanda issue. i'm really interested issue. but i'm really interested in why you'd object to doing this in a place that was under british control where you wouldn't have the issues about rwanda and all the questions of genocide . and you understand, we genocide. and you understand, we raise why you would object to doing that? >> yes, i have answered that. but i'm happy to answer it again, which is i don't believe in the idea of a dumping ground was you decide decided it's a dumping ground. >> be there very long. >> i think it would be treating human beings like that. and also, daniel's giving me also, i mean, daniel's giving me also, i mean, daniel's giving me a quizzical look, but a very quizzical look, but plenty have had plenty of other people have had the objections, including plenty of other people have had the archbishop tions, including plenty of other people have had the archbishop tioicanterburyg the archbishop of canterbury, who's not aligned. >> well, look, i don't necessarily a lot of people don't with either. and don't agree with him either. and perhaps like to house some perhaps you'd like to house some of that of them in the churches that he's well, stay with he's in. well, listen, stay with us. this is gb news, 33 minutes after 3:00. nana akua coming after 3:00. i'm nana akua coming up, boris make a surprise up, could boris make a surprise comeback as prime minister? many conservatives think that he is the man who save them

the only man who can save them from starmer. but first, from keir starmer. but first, let's your latest news with let's get your latest news with sophia . sophia. >> thank you, nana. i'm sophia wenzler in the newsroom. gb news understands. tomorrow, tory mps will give their verdict on whether the rwanda bill is workable. conserve lviv mp sir bill cash will present the findings ahead of the crunch. second vote on tuesday. the prime minister has come under pressure after it was discovered he paid £240 million towards the rwanda plan without a single flight taking off. tory sources say the mps will decide whether to support the legislation tomorrow or if necessary , hold tomorrow or if necessary, hold a second meeting ahead of the vote that evening . the labour leader that evening. the labour leader will warn the tories can no longer govern the country because warring camps are, as he describes, fighting like rats in a sack in a speech on the same day as the scheduled vote on the government's rwanda policy , government's rwanda policy, he'll claim it's labour that shares britain's values. despite the pressures over the £240

million policy. that's been marred by legal challenges , the marred by legal challenges, the prime minister called on labour to back his emergency legislation on baron jess. michelle mone says she made an error in publicly denying her links to the ppe firm medpro . it links to the ppe firm medpro. it was awarded government contracts worth more than £200 million to supply personal protective equipment after she recommended it to ministers. the national crime agency is investigating the firm and its connection to the firm and its connection to the conservative peer lady mone argues she is being used as a scapegoat by the government for its own covid failings . its own covid failings. mcdonnell has apologised after footage posted on social media showed a security guard mopping the floor where a homeless man was sitting. the video was taken on victoria street in london last night and shows the man trying to move his sleeping bag and duvet away from the water as it seeped underneath in the video he says, leave me alone before security kicks before one security guard kicks a blanket out of the way and

splashes more water along the pavement. macdonald said it was shocked and saddened by the footage . and you can get more on footage. and you can get more on all those stories by visiting our website at gbnews.com. and now it's back to . nana now it's back to. nana >> oh, that poor guy will stay with us. coming up, you'll hear my monologue on nigel farage as the nation waits to see if he'll be crowned king of the jungle. tonight, let's make sure he is making sure you download the i'm a celeb app and cast your five free votes and votes remain to keep nigel in the .

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sunday mornings from 930 on. gb news is . welcome back this is gb news. >> we are the people's channel. don't forget as well you can download the gb news app for free and you can see all the programmes on the channel. i'm nana akua. just coming up nana akua. it's just coming up to 40 minutes after 3:00. we're going head to head a clash of going head to head in a clash of minds this is next next minds and this is the next next topic. johnson could topic. boris johnson could return minister under return as prime minister under astonishing plans being hatched by tory mps with a dream ticket. leadership tie up with nigel farage even being considered . farage even being considered. and conservative mps reportedly believe that bringing back the former prime minister is the only way to save the party from

electoral oblivion. with even nigel farage hopefully soon to be king of the jungle, i'd opt to be his partner on the dream ticket. but i don't know whether that's madness or not. so joining me to discuss, peter edwards and daniel moylan. daniel, what you think? daniel, what do you think? >> i think it's first of >> well, i think it's first of all, somebody from nigel farage has camp. i mean, nigel, of course, doesn't know anything about this, apparently, because i cut off in the i understand he's cut off in the jungle. somebody from nigel jungle. but somebody from nigel farage has camp has said a joint leadership with boris johnson would end in tears in five minutes. and i think that's absolutely right. i don't think you have big beasts like you can have two big beasts like that jointly leading anything . that jointly leading anything. and i think it would collapse very quickly. that's a different matter from asking the question , matter from asking the question, why should boris, you know , what why should boris, you know, what would the result be if boris were somehow leader of the conservative party today? and i've no doubt it would be better, partly because boris hasn't got the issues about legitimacy that have arisen in relation to rishi sunak and

indeed to liz. less so to liz truss in that, you know, he was actually the leader of the party when it achieved this. the very large majority which constitute its this parliament and, and he's not there anymore and he's not there because he's been forced out by largely by his own side . so i think there is side. so i think there is something to be said for that. is there a role for nigel farage in the conservative party i think it's difficult. and nigel has to sort of make his mind up. but the policy at the moment of reform, which is, i believe life president or something, he president of or something, so he isn't totally disconnected from the reform party, even though he's actively campaigning . he's not actively campaigning. the policy of the reform party is the conservative is to destroy the conservative party in the elections. so i don't see how you can be, you know, the leader of a part leadership, part of the leadership, part of the leadership of the party which says we want to destroy the conservative and at the conservative party. and at the same say, i'd like to be same time say, i'd like to be joint leader of it. it it lacks a a clarity, a a sort of a clarity, a compelling message to say , but compelling message to say, but they probably conservative now

would anything. would probably do anything. >> like they're >> it's almost like they're thinking, we think thinking, well, if we i think it's quite interesting. >> don't the >> i don't think the conservatives anything. conservatives would do anything. i think if i take a of i think if i take a couple of probably too long, the first thing you notice is that i think it's already 75. mps have said they're stand at they're not going to stand at they're not going to stand at the election because the next election because everyone says, you know, the conservative party, when they're looking the they looking defeat in the face, they will anything will do anything to save themselves . 75 have already said themselves. 75 have already said they're at the next they're not standing at the next election. number, election. and that number, there's than there there's more than 75. but there are know they're not are people who know they're not standing haven't yet made standing but haven't yet made that announcement. so there will be, the part. be, you know, the best part. those are interested those people are not interested in the conservative party in saving the conservative party anymore. are votes the anymore. they are votes for the status quo. they're votes an status quo. they're votes for an easy because they're out of easy life because they're out of it. they're not looking save it. they're not looking to save their seats. they're gone. and so whole idea that, you so this whole idea that, you know, the tory party masse is know, the tory party en masse is going move and take action, going to move and take action, it's not it's becoming more and more lethargic and more resigned . yeah, more resigned to these issues because a lot of people that's not quite true. there are mps standing down for other

reasons because they've reached a certain age and or for health reasons or whatever. but some of them are standing down, i suspect, because they decided they're going to win. and they're not going to win. and what's game of what's this for a game of soldiers? that large soldiers? so that large number is effectively a vote for the status quo. it's a vote for doing nothing. that's what i'm trying to say. and so the idea that the conservative party is going spring into action and going to spring into action and resolve everything is , i think, resolve everything is, i think, a little bit overstated . they're a little bit overstated. they're punch drunk and lethargic. >> peter edwards i think the chances of boris and nigel farage teaming up in ending up being the conservative party around the government are pretty much close to zero. >> neither of them are mps. you know, boris johnson was forced from office not by the electorate, by his own party. sadly, people that him sadly, the people that knew him best decided they didn't want him. the house him. then when the house of commons privileges committee found the found against him over the downing street party scandal, rather than staying in fighting his corner, he quit. when he stood election after david stood for election after david cameron quit to be leader of the

tory party he quit that there was a great hullabaloo a few months after he left 10 downing street that he might stand again and he published a picture of him on the telephone by union jack and he quit that that unofficial as well. he's unofficial race as well. he's got a record not making it to got a record of not making it to the starting and the way the starting line. and the way you guarantee your own you can guarantee your own failure by resigning failure is by resigning your seat the house of commons, seat in the house of commons, which done. seat in the house of commons, whiwell, done. seat in the house of commons, whiwell, think ne. seat in the house of commons, whiwell, think that's little >> well, i think that's a little bit unfair because the reason he quit on most of those instances is knew he'd be is because he knew he'd be pushed so might as well pushed out, so he might as well go. mean by own go. i mean that by his own party. own. by his own party. by his own. by his own party. by his own. by his own party. well a lot of them, you know, i'm not don't even get me started on keir starmer and beergate a of things beergate and a lot of things that under the that may have gone under the radar was investigated radar that was investigated by the cleared. the police and cleared. >> that's opposite. >> so that's the opposite. >> so that's the opposite. >> staying under the radar. well, not so much because, well, there stories appeared there were stories that appeared to example, angela to be told. for example, angela rayner wasn't there and she rayner wasn't there and then she was it was only impromptu was it was only an impromptu gathering cleared gathering which was cleared by the do you accept the outcome? >> do you accept the outcome? >> do you accept the outcome? >> the outcome is the >> well, the outcome is the outcome, don't it. outcome, but i don't accept it. no, think was i think it's

no, i think it was i think it's i think he did just as badly as bofis i think he did just as badly as boris on that. if i think if you're going to penalise boris for that, i think if you evidence think if you're going evidence i think if you're going to what he to penalise boris for what he supposedly then think supposedly did, then i think that that balance that you should, on that balance then penalise starmer then also penalise keir starmer because i see very little difference. there's no evidence at all. there evidence. at all. there is evidence. i mean, i mean, mean, look, look, i mean, i don't to get too much don't want to get too much involved in that, let's be involved in that, but let's be honest. that keir honest. we know that keir starmer when he said that starmer lied when he said that angela rayner wasn't there because she's force angela rayner wasn't there be nature. she's force angela rayner wasn't there be nature. wouldn't force angela rayner wasn't there be nature. wouldn't not rce of nature. you wouldn't not nofice of nature. you wouldn't not notice that it was notice her. he said that it was an gathering an impromptu gathering and it turns there memo turns out there was a memo there. there only there. he said there were only a few then it turned out few people. then it turned out there were some. i don't know, 19 something. and that's 19 or something. and that's only because with because he was found out with a bill showed there were because he was found out with a bill £2001owed there were because he was found out with a bill £200 spent. there were because he was found out with a bill £200 spent. i there were because he was found out with a bill £200 spent. i think re were over £200 spent. i think personally they are if personally that they are if you're have at you're going to have a go at bofis you're going to have a go at boris about this, should you're going to have a go at borisbeiout this, should you're going to have a go at borisbe havings, should you're going to have a go at borisbe havings, go should you're going to have a go at borisbe havings, go atiould you're going to have a go at borisbe havings, go at keiri also be having a go at keir starmer go anyone starmer can have a go at anyone and you've platform to do that. >> to e- that. >> to say keir starmer lied that. >> he's say keir starmer lied that. >> he's say keinvestigated ed that. >> he's say keinvestigated by when he's being investigated by the completely the police is completely well. i've facts. i've just given you the facts. >> information >> he gave some information that wasn't true. was angela wasn't true. it was angela rayner have investigated. okay. i'm about rayner have investigated. okay. i'm police about rayner have investigated. okay. i'm police investigation, about rayner have investigated. okay. i'm police investigation, butyut rayner have investigated. okay. i'm not ce investigation, butyut rayner have investigated. okay. i'm not goingastigation, butyut rayner have investigated. okay. i'm not goingastirepeat butyut rayner have investigated. okay. i'm not goingastirepeat this. ut rayner have investigated. okay. i'm police.ngastirepeat this. ut rayner have investigated. okay. i'm police. i'llstirepeat this. ut rayner have investigated. okay. i'm police. i'll saypeat this. ut rayner have investigated. okay. i'm police. i'll say it.1t this. ut rayner have investigated. okay. i'm police. i'll say it. okay. ut rayner have investigated. okay.

i'ndid lice. i'll say it. okay. ut rayner have investigated. okay. i'ndid keir i'll say it. okay. ut rayner have investigated. okay. i'ndid keir starmert. okay. ut rayner have investigated. okay. i'ndid keir starmer say kay. ut rayner have investigated. okay. i'n did keir starmer say that?t so did keir starmer say that? angela rayner was at party angela rayner was at the party or what he remember? or not? what did he remember? but. told but. well, i've just told you. okay, on. okay, hold on, hold on, hold on. stop. lied stop. stop talking. so he lied because rayner stop. stop talking. so he lied becausthere rayner stop. stop talking. so he lied becausthere and rayner stop. stop talking. so he lied becausthere and she rayner stop. stop talking. so he lied becausthere and she was. ayner stop. stop talking. so he lied becausthere and she was. what wasn't there and she was. what would that be? what would you call you're your >> i think you're digging your grave legally. >> call that? >> what would you call that? >> what would you call that? >> your grave >> you're digging your grave legally. think he lied >> you're digging your grave legallhe think he lied >> you're digging your grave legallhe itthink he lied >> you're digging your grave legallhe it wasn'te lied >> you're digging your grave legallhe it wasn'te lieyby >> you're digging your grave leg'police it wasn'te lieyby >> you're digging your grave leg'police who: wasn'te lieyby >> you're digging your grave leg'police who: wasn'tyfoundy >> you're digging your grave leg'police who: wasn'tyfound he lied. >> well, well, was it true that angela rayner was there or wasn't? >> i can't remember. but >> i can't remember. but >> no evidence she >> well, i can. no evidence she was he said he was. was there. and he said he was. >> lied. >> there's no evidence he lied. >> there's no evidence he lied. >> you call that? >> so what would you call that? >> an error. >> an error. >> right. that's error. >> oh right. that's a big error. okay right. that's okay all right. well, that's fair enough you're saying? fair enough then. you're saying? >> you haven't offered fair enough then. you're saying? >> evidence you haven't offered fair enough then. you're saying? >> evidence yo supportt offered fair enough then. you're saying? >> evidence yo support that. red fair enough then. you're saying? >> i'vejence yo support that. red fair enough then. you're saying? >> i've justa yo support that. red fair enough then. you're saying? >> i've just givenrpport that. red fair enough then. you're saying? >> i've just given yourt that. red >> i've just given you the evidence. given you a few evidence. i've given you a few instances that were not instances that were simply not true. i've just told you them. so that's why i'm saying that i think and boris. i think think both he and boris. i think if going to give , put if you're going to give, put bofisin if you're going to give, put boris in trouble for that, then i should also be in i think he should also be in trouble well. don't to trouble as well. i don't need to spend any more time on this because there. because the facts are there. >> starmer was cleared. >> he and i have no >> he was fine, and i have no idea that would be the case. idea why that would be the case. world think should world apart. i think they should have you're world apart. i think they should have to you're world apart. i think they should have to anybody you're world apart. i think they should have to anybody or'ou're world apart. i think they should have to anybody or'ou'rat all. >> even the police >> even if the police

investigated, someone, >> even if the police investibreak. someone, >> even if the police investibreak. law,omeone, >> even if the police investibreak. law, you me, >> even if the police investibreak. law, you still didn't break the law, you still want them fined. >> presenting? >> who's presenting? who's interviewing? is it you or me? well, something. >> it's very inappropriate. >> it's very inappropriate. >> something >> but i've said something that's true, asked daniel. >> not true keir >> it's not true that keir starmer not true that starmer lied. it's not true that keir lied. keir starmer lied. >> be the judge >> i'm not going to be the judge in not very in this. that's not very interesting . the fact that interesting. the fact is that the way in which the police . we the way in which the police. we need to go back to the whole bafis need to go back to the whole basis of the lockdown. i mean, i remember seeing in the house of lords the laws that we had to approve statutory instrument s that changed the lockdown at different points when the when the rules changed, there'd be a change law documents that change in the law documents that thick which were almost unreadable , specify with unreadable, specify with detailed specifications. and i remember saying in the house of lords that this is not these these decisions are not suitable for legislation . nobody can for legislation. nobody can enforce this. the it's almost impossible to enforce these regulations fairly. nobody can even read or understand them from day to day . and ordinary

from day to day. and ordinary people , i don't mean shopkeepers people, i don't mean shopkeepers or people who have an investment in a business that they have to keep running. but ordinary people like you and me, we have noidea people like you and me, we have no idea what the law actually is. up being reduced to is. it ended up being reduced to a guidance , followed by a bit of guidance, followed by being reduced to three word slogans. that's what we were face to face. whatever bumps of daisy that we had to remember at a particular time. and nobody actually what law actually knew what the law exactly it was very exactly was. and it was very different workplaces where different in workplaces where people were allowed to go . people were allowed to go. people were not prohibited from going workplace in going to their workplace in certain , and certain circumstances, and everyone accepts that going into work at number 10 was was illegal and proper. there was a law having a party law against having a party there. there was well, law against having a party there.was there was well, law against having a party there.was no. re was well, law against having a party there.was no. let/as well, law against having a party there.was no. let me well, law against having a party there.was no. let me finish l, law against having a party there.was no. let me finish the there was no. let me finish the word party. never appeared in that legislation. >> social gathering. >> social gathering. >> the word party never appeared in that legislation. for example, non—essential social gathering. i don't know what appeared in the legislation with the word never did. so the word party. never did. so there law against having there was no law against having a there were there were a party there were there were laws against there were laws

against gatherings. and the question is whether you were sitting in an office. there was never a law against drinking alcohol . that was never in the alcohol. that was never in the legislation . and if you're legislation. and if you're sitting in an office working and then one minute and then the next minute you're in next minute you're sitting in office working glass of office working with a glass of wine whether you've office working with a glass of wine the whether you've office working with a glass of wine the why|ether you've office working with a glass of wine the why have you've office working with a glass of wine the why have you 've broken the law, why have you broken the law, why have you broken the law, why have you broken the law? now, i accept bofis broken the law? now, i accept boris got a fine. i'm not saying he a fine, he didn't get a fine, but all i'm saying is almost impossible for to know in good faith for anyone to know in good faith at a lot of the time. whether they were breaking the law or not. >> i totally agree with you. >> i totally agree with you. >> i totally agree with you. >> i was. i remember being sitting in hyde park for a moment. down. for moment. i sat down. i went for a long was allowed to long walk. i was allowed to walk. was allowed out once a walk. i was allowed out once a day for in hyde day going for a walk in hyde park, resting my weary bones for five on a bench and five minutes on a bench and being politely moved on by a mounted police lady. i mean, i'm of course i complied and i. but i wasn't allowed to sit on the bench. all of sudden. bench. all of a sudden. what? why? was all that about? why? what was all that about? well, invented that . i said well, i invented that. i said nothing law about it. nothing in the law about it. said law about said nothing in the law about

sitting on benches. >> you can't. that was not prohibited. you could go to the office where appropriate. well, i went to the office within the rules. >> but some people might argue at your desk and drink all day if wanted . if you wanted. >> i too busy, you were >> and i was too busy, you were probably do that. probably too to do that. >> were >> you were probably. you were probably i grant you. probably too busy. i grant you. but you could have done you but you could have done and you would not have been breaking the law have law because it would not have been a party. >> i would been drinking. been a party. >> there d been drinking. been a party. >> there was been drinking. been a party. >> there was bhypothetical scenario. >> you said is to have scenario. >> office you said is to have scenario. >> office youto said is to have scenario. >> office youto yourself. to have an office all to yourself. >> he just said is >> well, what he just said is there no actual anything there was no actual anything saying actual party. so i hear you. look, i think a lot of people confused about rules. >> $- f was a nonsense. >> everything was a nonsense. >> everything was a nonsense. >> it was a bit nonsense. it became a lot became silly at the end. a lot of confused about of people were confused about the bubble when the rules. your bubble when you're at work and this that you're at work and this and that could you drink? it was confusing let's honest. confusing. let's be honest. >> could drink. they >> you could always drink. they never prohibited never ever prohibited drink. yeah so. >> but but. but to me i still think that, you know, if you're going put out fines for going to put out fines for people doing that, then think people doing that, then i think they should have also fined keir starmer. . but starmer. that's my view. but what's yours, by the way? lots of touch what's yours, by the way? lots of nigel touch what's yours, by the way? lots of nigel farage. touch what's yours, by the way? lots of nigel farage. stella touch what's yours, by the way? lots of nigel farage. stella saysrch on nigel farage. stella says the tories need nigel farage, but he doesn't them . oh, better tories need nigel farage, but he doe red them . oh, better

tories need nigel farage, but he doe red wall them . oh, better tories need nigel farage, but he doe red wall andm . oh, better tories need nigel farage, but he doe red wall and right h, better tories need nigel farage, but he doe red wall and right wingtter tories need nigel farage, but he doe red wall and right wing tory the red wall and right wing tory mps reform uk to gain mps joined reform uk to gain support from sides on support from all sides on conservatives, martin says i think all boris's problems were generated by the far left that now controls civil service now controls the civil service liz truss. his problems were a game generated the left and game generated by the left and the england dumping the bank of england dumping bonds everyone bonds onto the market. everyone seems to forget this. the problems date back to problems we had date back to blair when he gave much blair when he gave too much power the civil service. now power to the civil service. now they want give it back they don't want to give it back right ? well, stay keep right? well, stay with us. keep them great, great them coming. great, great messages, by the way. but on to this scobie or this one, omid scobie or scooby—doo people call scooby—doo or some people call him his latest work him scobie's. his latest work end released ten ago end game, released ten days ago and already fallen out of and has already fallen out of the amazon top ten best sellers list. i think it's somewhere in the something. list. i think it's somewhere in the many something. list. i think it's somewhere in the many believe something. list. i think it's somewhere in the many believe thatnething. list. i think it's somewhere in the many believe that the ing. list. i think it's somewhere in the many believe that the book now, many believe that the book has bombed in the states and in the of harry and the uk because of harry and meghan's has meghan's star power, which has fallen comes as fallen dramatically. it comes as the family today the royal family has today released christmas card released their christmas card designs, and queen and designs, the king and queen and camilla shared photo of them camilla shared a photo of them wearing robes and crowns . wearing their robes and crowns. and buckingham palace's throne room the coronation. so room for the coronation. so meanwhile, prince and meanwhile, the prince and princess of wales have released a of their a lovely photograph of their

family . so peter and danielle , family. so peter and danielle, what do you think, peter? are you tempted to read obe scobie's book? >> no, i don't think so. i'm too not bothered by how many books he sells to a sequel. it's not really my area of interest, but i think, you know, i believe in balance. i think prince harry and his wife meghan, i think they took a decision after the first book. they going to first book. they were going to kind of try and quiet for kind of try and go quiet for a bit. had a lot negative bit. they had a lot of negative pubuchy bit. they had a lot of negative publicity run in publicity over a bit of a run in with american police where they live. they , in terms live. so i think they, in terms of took a tactical of media, took a tactical decision to go quiet. >> out well. >> well, that worked out well. daniel >> i've never i mean, daniel >> i've neveri mean, i daniel >> i've never i mean, i wish great happiness to the duke and duchess beyond that, i take very little interest in their affairs and activities. i've never read and activities. i've never read a book about them. so i wasn't proposing to read this one. i do have a view on on the christmas cards, though. >> lovely, isn't it? >> yeah. lovely, isn't it? >> yeah. lovely, isn't it? >> choice. >> yeah. we'll give it a choice. i you i know i mean, you know, i don't know if readers your viewers if your readers can your viewers can see christmas can actually see the christmas cards, go for the if cards, but i would go for the if i were if i were a member of the royal definitely i were if i were a member of the royal up definitely

i were if i were a member of the royal up and definitely i were if i were a member of the royal up and wearefinitely i were if i were a member of the royal up and wear the itely i were if i were a member of the royal up and wear the robes and dress up and wear the robes and the crowns. >> okay. >> okay. >> that's cute. the other one here, i'm not i'm not entirely convinced this is conveying convinced what this is conveying to the family, except that they have very good, very good laundry operation and that the shirts are brilliant . white shirts are brilliant. white well, that's good. and that's good, but it's not really telling me much about. well, except that there are family. that's lovely. >> i it's lovely. they're >> i think it's lovely. they're united. listen, stay with united. well, listen, stay with us. there's more here on us. there's loads more here on gb to come, the gb news. still to come, the great i'll be asking, is great debate. i'll be asking, is the a gimmick ? i'll the rwanda plan a gimmick? i'll bnng the rwanda plan a gimmick? i'll bring weather. don't bring you some weather. don't forget tuned my forget to stay tuned for my monologue, up next on monologue, which is up next on a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> good afternoon. welcome to your latest gb news weather. i'm ellie glaisyer low pressure still very much in charge of our weather over the next couple of days , bringing some unsettled days, bringing us some unsettled conditions some wet conditions and some wet and windy way. storm windy weather on the way. storm fergus named by met eireann slowly continues to move way

slowly continues to move its way towards the uk through rest towards the uk through the rest of into monday. this of sunday and into monday. this will bring rain spreading its way across of scotland. way across parts of scotland. and already falling and this rain already falling on some saturated ground some very saturated ground with further across further rain pushing across northern parts of england through hours of through the early hours of monday very strong monday morning. some very strong winds, particularly across winds, too, particularly across western parts of wales and through bristol channel, through the bristol channel, where could see those gusts through the bristol channel, whyto could see those gusts through the bristol channel, whyto miles see those gusts through the bristol channel, whyto miles se

scotland. again, already falling on that very saturated ground . on that very saturated ground. so some localised flooding here that sets us up for further rain through the rest of tuesday and into wednesday . but perhaps through the rest of tuesday and into lofinesday . but perhaps through the rest of tuesday and into \.of something ut perhaps through the rest of tuesday and into \.of something utlittleaps through the rest of tuesday and into \.of something utlittle more hints of something a little more settled on the way through the latter of week . latter half of next week. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boiler as sponsors of weather on . gb news. so welcome aboard. >> this is gb news. now there's loads more to come. in the next houn loads more to come. in the next hour. my monologue is on nigel in the jungle and anthony dec's hypocrisy stay tuned. i've got a couple more emails to read though. about though. we were talking about the candidacy and reform and nigel farage ranger says i would vote for reform uk, but there isn't a candidate in my constituency . when is reform constituency. when is reform getting together and getting its act together and giving us candidate we can giving us a candidate we can actually ? and then john actually vote for? and then john says boris's return. he says no to boris's return. he did job on brexit, a did a great job on brexit, but a rubbish everything rubbish job on everything else, especially the economy. it would rubbish job on everything else, espe be .ly the economy. it would rubbish job on everything else, espe be a the economy. it would rubbish job on everything else, espe be a bige economy. it would rubbish job on everything else, espe be a big disasteriy. it would rubbish job on everything else, espe be a big disaster if it would rubbish job on everything else, espe be a big disaster if nigeljld also be a big disaster if nigel were team up with him . well,

were to team up with him. well, listen, stay my monologue listen, stay tuned. my monologue is on way. next .

good afternoon and welcome to gb news on tv online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua for the next few hours. me and my panel will be taking on some of the big topics hitting the headlines right now. this show is all about opinion. it's mine, it's theirs. and course , it's theirs. and of course, it's yours. we'll be debating, discussing , and at we will discussing, and at times we will disagree. but no will be disagree. but no one will be cancelled . so joining me today, cancelled. so joining me today, it's broadcast from journalist danny kelly and also broadcaster and author christine hamilton . and author christine hamilton. before we get started, let's get your latest news with sophia . your latest news with sophia. >> thank you, nana. good afternoon . it's 4:00. i'm sophia afternoon. it's 4:00. i'm sophia wenzler in the newsroom . some wenzler in the newsroom. some breaking news in the last hour met. police say two teenage girls have been arrested on suspicion of the robbery of a jewish woman in north london. a

warning these images might be distressing . footage of the distressing. footage of the attack has been circulating on social media of the 20 year old jewish woman walking in stamford hill on thursday afternoon . two hill on thursday afternoon. two women approached her from behind as she tried to evade them by crossing the road. the crossing the road. when the assailants the assailants pull her to the ground kicking punching ground, kicking and punching her. the met police says it's keeping open mind about the keeping an open mind about the motive but are motive for the attack, but are treating as a possible hate treating it as a possible hate crime . gb news understands crime. gb news understands tomorrow, tory mps will give their verdict on whether the rwanda bill is workable. conserve lviv mp sir bill cash will present the findings ahead of the crunch. second vote on tuesday. the prime minister has come under pressure after it was discovered he paid £240 million towards the rwanda plan without a single flight taking off. tory sources say the mps will decide whether to support the legislation tomorrow or if necessary, hold a second meeting ahead of the vote . an israeli ahead of the vote. an israeli tanks are battling to reach gaza's main southern city after ordering civilians to evacuate.

khan younis was hit by heavy bombardment through the night as the israel defence forces advanced. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu says international calls to end the war are inconsistent. briefing his cabinet, netanyahu told the leaders of france, germany and other countries, you cannot on the one hand, support the elimination of hamas and on the other pressure us to end the war, which would stop the elimination of the terror group . elimination of the terror group. a mother has been charged with the manslaughter after her two sets of twins died in a south london house fire in 2020. one. the children, aged three and four, were home when the ground floor of the house became engulfed in flames. they were treated at the scene before being taken to two south london hospitals where they were pronounced dead . police say 29 pronounced dead. police say 29 year old devika rose is also charged with the child abandonment and is expected to appear at croydon magistrates court tomorrow . the mayor of court tomorrow. the mayor of london says the met police is

chronically underfunded in a letter to the home secretary. sadiq khan says london faces unique pressures as a capital city and urges the home office to boost the force's finances . to boost the force's finances. as he says, the underfunding is highlighted by the challenge of policing the protests over the conflict in gaza and israel . mr conflict in gaza and israel. mr khan warns the funding gap could now be as . khan warns the funding gap could now be as. high as £240 million. baroness michelle mone says she made an error in publicly denying her links to the ppe firm medpro . it was awarded firm medpro. it was awarded government contracts worth more than £200 million to supply personal protective equipment after she recommended it to ministers. the national crime agency is investigating the firm and its connection to the conservative peer . lady mone conservative peer. lady mone argues she is being used as a scapegoat by the government for its own covid failings . a judge its own covid failings. a judge has ordered the bbc to release emails related to martin bashir's controversial 1995

interview with princess diana . a interview with princess diana. a warning the following video has flashing images. mr bashir officially stepped down from his job at the broadcaster in 2021 after it emerged he had secured the interview through deception and faking documents . judge and faking documents. judge bnan and faking documents. judge brian kennedy said the corporation had been inconsistent and unreliable in the way it dealt with the initial inquest to release material under the freedom of information act . the material information act. the material related to how the broadcaster handled the scandal when it came to light in 2020. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on your digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. now it's back to . nana back to. nana >> thank you, sophia. good afternoon . if you just tuned in, afternoon. if you just tuned in, i'm nana akua fast approaching six minutes after 4:00. this is gb news news. i don't wish to be

churlish, but i'm going to be. itv must be spitting feathers that gb news is nigel farage is in the final three of i'm a celebrity. you see, when the show started, a few weeks ago and they offered nigel what was widely rumoured as £1.5 million, i genuinely believe that they thought that it would be a bad move for him and i say this because of the political snipes by ant and dec early on in the show about being on the right and the general insults directed at gb news disguised as humour. our apparent three viewers keith, linda and the dog which we took with good humour because every time they mentioned us it was free advertising that many in the commercial breaks would have killed for. the thing is, many who had a negative opinion of nigel had never met him. in fact, i suspect most got their view of him , like nella rose view of him, like nella rose from the internet . so we're from the internet. so we're going to get everything out in the open. let's get everything out of there. right. so when all

the tears coming out now. so basically . basically. >> but this is what i was saying. >> apparently your anti immigrants and who told you that? oh, the internet told. >> oh well there we are then. it must be true. it must be true. it it must be true. it must be. it must be true. >> okay. but then why don't black people like you? >> amazed . they do. >> you'd be amazed. they do. you'd , nigel, if you you'd be amazed, nigel, if you came with me. if you came with me . if you came. if you came me. if you came. if you came with me through south london, you'd be astonished. wow >> in south >> what were you doing in south london? nigel >> well, i'm there every day. >> well, i'm there every day. >> south. wait. sorry. >> you're in south. wait. sorry. i'm so to shot. i'm so sorry to be shot. what are doing? sorry are you doing? sorry >> he's from south london. >> he's from south london. >> south london. so? >> so? >> so? >> so? >> so everyone m >> so everyone hates you for no reason. well, no, no. not reason. well, no, no, no. not that everyone hates. that so that everyone hates. that was so bad but, you, can you can bad. but, like you, can you can disagree with somebody . disagree with somebody. >> but to chuck around the accusations , the way that accusations, the way that they've around they've been chucked around is grossly the grossly unfair. the anti—immigrant, no. anti—immigrant, right? no no. all i've said we cannot go on all i've said is we cannot go on with the numbers coming to britain coming. britain that are coming. do you know ? i'm one of the know why? i'm one of the numbers, right. so that's it

then. so should it be 5 million a year? 10 million? question no, you don't seem to understand. nigel. hang on, hang nigel. hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. >> immigrants, on, hang >> immigrants, you hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. >> been in power. >> they've been in power. >> they've been in power. >> a bit later about immigrants . >> a bit later about immigrants. >> a bit later about immigrants. >> yes. well, when she was booted out from the jungle very early on after demonstrating an astonishing level of intolerance , all she could say was that she liked nigel, but she didn't like his views . she called it a his views. she called it a sticky one. and dec brought up the topic of cultural appropriate ation when it all went , which appropriate ation when it all went, which was when it all went wrong for them . but perhaps she wrong for them. but perhaps she should take a look at her hosts. i mean, there are no stranger to cultural appropriation , nella cultural appropriation, nella said. use someone's said. you can't use someone's culture as a fancy dress. really well, here they are , your well, here they are, your friendly hosts on tv dressed as mexicans. but it's okay because it's ant and dec or maybe just dec . okay, well, here are your dec. okay, well, here are your friendly hosts undercover on tv

in blackface. in 2003, they apologised to, of course, after the backlash, but pot kettle nigel like most of us, are all walking on eggshells, scared to offend people like you. nigel speaks for many of us who are confused as to what we can and can't say to this wallflower generation captured by the ideology woke a sticky one. ideology of woke a sticky one. you call it. well, maybe look it up and look up your hosts on the internet . there was that snipe internet. there was that snipe directed at nigel from nicey nicey lorraine kelly about getting the face you deserve of what, 59? >> he's got plenty of years ahead of him if he wants to get going again . he's the only 59. going again. he's the only 59. >> i thought he was a hell of a lot than that. >> i thought he was a hell of a lot that's han that. >> i thought he was a hell of a lot that's astonishing . >> that's astonishing. >> that's astonishing. >> he shows you. you get >> he just shows you. you get the deserve. yeah. the face you deserve. yeah. frankly may i suggest she looks in the mirror and not to the newspaper rag. >> they couldn't help themselves either . it even appeared that either. it even appeared that nigel was being edited out of the shows as there were only glimpses of him at the start. it. but nigel just carried on being nigel smashing the being nigel smashing all the tasks genuinely gutted.

being nigel smashing all the ta he genuinely gutted. being nigel smashing all the ta he was genuinely gutted. being nigel smashing all the ta he was unable nuinely gutted. being nigel smashing all the ta he was unable toinely gutted. being nigel smashing all the ta he was unable to bringgutted. being nigel smashing all the ta he was unable to bring backi. if he was unable to bring back stars for the team . stars for the team. unfortunately for those that wanted to see the fall of nigel farage, i'm a celebrity has enabled the public to see the man that those who work with him and have actually met him see a consummate professional and an intelligent gentleman. so tonight is the final. i urge you tonight is the final. i urge you to vote for nigel and crown him king of the jungle, if only to see the look on ant and dec's faces . so before we get stuck faces. so before we get stuck into the debate, here's what else is coming up today for the great british debate. this hour, i'm asking, is rwanda a gimmick after star chamber after the tories star chamber rejects rwanda flights rejects sunak rwanda flights plan as not watertight ? is the plan as not watertight? is the scheme doomed ? then stay tuned scheme doomed? then stay tuned at 450. it's worldview . we'll at 450. it's worldview. we'll cross live to los angeles with paul duddridge and get the latest trump's domination latest from trump's domination of the republican primary. and we'll get the latest from israel as well. as biden calls for the two solution at five, it's

two state solution at five, it's my outside guest . my mystery my outside guest. my mystery guest will be a revealing all about the life behind bars and how 15 years of prison made him reform to become an ambassador for peace . but who is he? for peace. but who is he? a giant question mark. that's coming up in the next hour. tell me what you think on everything we're discussing. email gbviews@gbnews.com or tweet me at . gb news. all gbviews@gbnews.com or tweet me at. gb news. all right. gbviews@gbnews.com or tweet me at . gb news. all right. let's at. gb news. all right. let's welcome my panel again. let's get started . joining me, get started. joining me, broadcaster and journalist danny kelly and also broadcaster and author christine hamilton . author christine hamilton. right. so i'm going to start with you, danny, because you said you always watch i'm a celebrity. >> i do . well, yeah, i've >> i do. well, yeah, i've definitely watched every episode this year because our nige is in and i find it hilarious that so many people who have pathologic well, almost an illness with with nigel farage and how they feel about him they are imploding. >> they are going to have some sort of psychological breakdown if he's going win.

if he's going to win. >> fact, think they're >> in fact, i think they're already the breakdowns, >> in fact, i think they're alre mental the breakdowns, >> in fact, i think they're alre mental breakdowns, (downs, the mental breakdowns, because he's don't he's in the final three. i don't understand this understand the rules with this cultural appropriation. and you're highlight you're right to highlight the double dec double standards of ant and dec as for example, as well. for example, fred sirieix , who's a frenchman, sirieix, who's a frenchman, everyone taking the mickey everyone was taking the mickey out now, as soon out of his accent. now, as soon as someone goes water or whatever it this sort of whatever it was in this sort of south—east london patois type, west indian mix of english. >> and i think it's a very ugly voice and a very ugly accent that that that comment nation bnngs >> but it's okay for people might say that about your. well they they example they may do they may for example i bristolian i think josie's bristolian accent i think that's ugly as well i'm not picking on well so i'm not just picking on someone the colour of someone because of the colour of the just picking on the skin, i'm just picking on the skin, i'm just picking on the come that the sounds that come out of that woman's mouth. >> okay for people to do >> so it's okay for people to do the voice, but can't the french voice, but you can't do the patois. west indian voice why the double standards? >> well, that's what nigel was saying, if he said water, saying, that if he said water, then wouldn't be then it might he wouldn't be able because she able to do that because she said, not? it's a song. so said, why not? it's a song. so even hypocrisy even her argument was hypocrisy there. it was really confusing. it is confusing. >> she's confused when i say i

don't want him to win. and i love gb news and i think nigel is a great guy. i want tony bellew to win because i'm a massive his. he's an massive fan of his. he's an everton me. he's everton fan like me. he's a scouser i think his true scouser and i think his true personality is coming out. it just lovely guy , but i just seems a lovely guy, but i don't either of them are don't think either of them are going sam going to win. i think that's sam is unfortunately is going to win. unfortunately >> christine hamilton is going to win. unfortunately >> think|ristine hamilton is going to win. unfortunately >> think you're hamilton is going to win. unfortunately >> think you're hamilto to don't think you're allowed to work gb news unless you're work on gb news unless you're supporting. get it. supporting. let's get rid of it. so know you, so it's been nice to know you, danny. >> i must say this. it amazing how quickly you forget until i saw those clips. i've completely forgotten about nella—rose and how ignorant she was and how stupid and how unable to argue and if she's typical of that generation , then i mean god, generation, then i mean god, although she's not here to defend herself and you know, she's young, she's young, she's i although i would say at i mean, although i would say at 26, i knew i just had chance 26, i knew i just had her chance to corner. we've just to put her corner. we've just seen and she seen it all again. and she didn't very well. anyway, didn't do very well. anyway, moving swiftly on, think moving swiftly on, i think nigel has an absolute blinder has played an absolute blinder and he's knocked spots off itv. >> i wore the jacket , especially >> i wore the jacket, especially as i'm sure you're 100% right.

as i'm sure you're100% right. >> they did not expect him to do so well. he's been absolutely brilliant. he's just he's just quietly he hasn't done anything sensational. he's done no big histrionics, nothing like that. he's just got on with the channel and challenges . channel and challenges. >> he's done them all. he's been kind , he's been nice, a little kind, he's been nice, a little bit about tidying the bit obsessive about tidying the camp, bit obsessive about tidying the can but him bit obsessive about tidying the canbut him . >> but that's him. >> but that's him. >> him. tony >> that's him. no. tony blackburn . i was in the first blackburn. i was in the first one. tony blackburn and one one. tony blackburn won. and one of the that endeared him of the things that endeared him to . he was to the viewers was logs. he was obsessive collecting logs, obsessive about collecting logs, logs, log that can go one way or other. >> i thought you meant the dunny i >> -- >> no, no, no. he for goodness sake, not that type of log. >> no . so i think he's done >> no. so i think he's done whether wins or not, he's whether he wins or not, he's going win to get third is going to win to get third is he's done absolutely brilliantly. he's done himself. nothing but good. nobody who dislikes him can. if they don't like him a bit. now, they never were going to he hasn't turned anybody off who did like him. and as say , i mean itv and as you say, i mean itv laughing all the way not to the bank given it laughing all the way not to the bartonight given it laughing all the way not to the bartonight . given it all tonight. >> well, they because >> well, they thought because

you could hear it their, you you could hear it in their, you know, mimicking and taking the mickey gb news and how mickey out of gb news and how there's hardly viewers there's hardly any viewers and so those so on. and so forth. well, those few have helped to push few viewers have helped to push nigel up the top there to be in the final three. and dec, i didn't really like it. put me off when they were being well and know most of it's and do you know most of it's canned laughter they're not even jokes they're so pure out there remarks oh behind the cameras that stage. remarks oh behind the cameras tha laughter >> laughter stage. >> laughter stage. >> laughter stage. >> laughter somebody presses the button. it's . >> oh, it's. »- >> oh, it's. >> was. thought they >> no, it was. i thought they were real people behind were real people laughing behind the be, but were there. >> you were the jungle. were >> you were in the jungle. were there people there when you came >> you were in the jungle. were thereoh,yple there when you came >> you were in the jungle. were thereoh, well, 1ere when you came >> you were in the jungle. were thereoh, well, 1ercourse, you came >> you were in the jungle. were thereoh, well, 1ercourse, whename out? oh, well, of course, when you there's cameramen. you come out, there's cameramen. >> think when i >> there's oh, i think when i did it, we're talking about 22 years ago. >> there were about 350 crew. now now there'll be way over thousand. >> i really an awful lot of people. it wasn't yours the one with was it? nigel, ben, nigel, ben. oh, my god. that was so funny. and there was the race row. the race row. there was the religion row. the race row. there was the reli there was the god row. >> there was the god row. >> there was the god row. >> there was the god row. >> there was the chicken breast row. great. row. oh, it was great. >> but you should chop the

chicken before cooking . chicken breast before cooking. always been always features. and it's been great fun to see how cooking is featured one. featured in this one. >> about him being >> you're right about him being a as well. >> you're right about him being a oh, as well. >> you're right about him being a oh, he's as well. >> you're right about him being a oh, he's a as well. >> you're right about him being a oh, he's a gentleman. as well. >> you're right about him being a and he's a gentleman. as well. >> you're right about him being a and thata gentleman. as well. >> you're right about him being a and that comes eman. as well. >> you're right about him being a and that comes across.as well. >> and that comes across. i think he comes across incredibly well. a massive of well. look, i'm a massive fan of his , but he's not most his, but he's not the most charismatic individual, in my opinion. >> this is the last ever appearance on gb news. >> but the great thing about this platform that allow >> but the great thing about thisopinionn that allow >> but the great thing about thisopinion and that allow >> but the great thing about thisopinion and whether allow >> but the great thing about thisopinion and whether sometimes my opinion and whether sometimes it's against the company narrative , you still invite narrative, you still invite me back week . he's great back every week. he's a great guy ' back every week. he's a great guy , but i don't think he's got guy, but i don't think he's got the charisma for the neutral, for the impartial viewer to think. do you know what i think ? think. do you know what i think? i'll objectively take politics out of it. i'm going to give it to nigel. i don't he's got to nigel. i don't think he's got that to nigel. i don't think he's got tha well, always two to nigel. i don't think he's got tha'things. always two two things. >> one, know whether >> one, i want to know whether the green speedos were good or bad for nigel in the eyes of the viewers. i wonder. i mean, they were but it's were pretty amazing, but it's always the nice ones win. i always the nice ones who win. i wasn't nice enough to win. i came well. came third as well. >> tony blackburn won. >> tony blackburn won. >> he incredibly nice . nice. you >> he incredibly nice. nice. you know, the female footballer.

>> what's the name? >> what's the name? >> jo jo jo you know, i'm not into women's football . into women's football. >> oh, on. >> oh, come on. >> the jill >> the lioness. jill >> the lioness. jill >> well, she was. it's always a really nice not into women's. >> it was so denigrating. >> it was so denigrating. >> sorry . >> sorry. >> sorry. >> no, it was so dismissive. it really was. i'm not into women's football . well, as if it's football. well, as if it's something bad . so i. something bad. so i. >> it pains me to say it, but i don't think he'll win. >> i think it'll be he's going to win. >> that's some tony or sam. >> that's some tony or sam. >> sam's too irritating . he is. >> like an is. like an annoying is. >> like an annoying fly. >> it's like an annoying fly. >> it's like an annoying fly. >> irritating. and i love it when nigel, he was. was in when nigel, he was. he was in the place where they and the place where they go and talk. place called? talk. what's that place called? where they into jungle. where they go into the jungle. >> telegraph. where they go into the jungle. >> the telegraph. where they go into the jungle. >> the bush telegraph. in >> the bush telegraph. he was in there saying , oh, i there and he was saying, oh, i think something think he said something like, you but every you know, he's lovely, but every now him just now and again i find him just immensely irritating , something immensely irritating, something like that, he said. but he's right about sam . i think he right about sam. i think he speaks for most of us. he would irritate me. he would irritate the out of me. irritate me. he would irritate the and out of me. irritate me. he would irritate the and how of me. irritate me. he would irritate the and how tonya. irritate me. he would irritate the and how tony puts up with >> and how tony puts up with that sort of puppy adoration i >>i -- >> i don't know. oh, no. >>— >> i don't know. oh, no. >> i don't know. oh, no. >> i think on the on the

>> i think he's on the on the bnnk >> i think he's on the on the brink of snapping with him a lot >> i think he's on the on the byou of snapping with him a lot >> i think he's on the on the byou can napping with him a lot >> i think he's on the on the byou can see)ing with him a lot >> i think he's on the on the byou can see him with him a lot >> i think he's on the on the byou can see him sort him a lot >> i think he's on the on the byou can see him sort ofn a lot >> i think he's on the on the byou can see him sort of having . you can see him sort of having to composure. good. . you can see him sort of having to tony, composure. good. . you can see him sort of having to tony, if composure. good. . you can see him sort of having to tony, if you mposure. good. . you can see him sort of having to tony, if you wanture. good. . you can see him sort of having to tony, if you want him good. . you can see him sort of having to tony, if you want him toyd. so, tony, if you want him to win, him to. so, tony, if you want him to winyeah.him to. so, tony, if you want him to winyeah. yeah o. so, tony, if you want him to winyeah. yeah yeah. you >> yeah. yeah yeah. but, you know, point know, that's the whole point about . we see about an hour about that. we see about an hour or an hour and a half, but they are together 24 over seven. and if sam keeps that up 24 over seven, i mean, he would have been me. absolutely. been driving me. absolutely. >> see the bit where he >> did you see the bit where he tickled tony's belly? he said they would rockabye baby on a tree. i'd be like, oh, yeah, but nigel's done really well to keep his cool with all those people because they wouldn't have been his natural bosom buddies. >> a lot of them. let's pick his natural bosom buddies. >> anyt of them. let's pick his natural bosom buddies. >> any names m. let's pick his natural bosom buddies. >> any names ,1. let's pick his natural bosom buddies. >> any names , but�*t's pick his natural bosom buddies. >> any names , but he's pick his natural bosom buddies. >> any names , but he's donek out any names, but he's done very, very well and gb news has played a blinder, i think, and whoever wrote the contract for nigel farage, every time he's introduced on the little news gb nigel farage, every time he's introdi:ed on the little news gb nigel farage, every time he's introdi mean the little news gb nigel farage, every time he's introdi mean ,:he little news gb nigel farage, every time he's introdi mean , thisittle news gb nigel farage, every time he's introdi mean , this station ns gb nigel farage, every time he's introdi mean , this station hasb news i mean, this station has played a blinder and also you've kept your dignity well . kept your dignity as well. >> all these little snidey pops, all the time, you know, dignity in those green speedos. >> well, maybe not nigel's, but the station . i was like, what?

the station. i was like, what? >> no, it's really. it's really bad. but that's nigel. he's great and i think a lot of people didn't anticipate that he's a gentleman. and he's a gentleman. yeah. and that's the thing, you know, all his crew, people who work with him, everyone says that. >> player and they've >> and a team player and they've all realised that now. >> they know that. >> and they now know that. snipes at nigel don't work and actually against what i actually work against what i think they want, which is one of the others to win and not him, which i is just final thing. >> t- thing. >> nigel farage does >> 10s okay. nigel farage does look i'll look older than 59, and i'll tell don't think he tell you why i don't think he does. think does does. well, i think he does because years because he's spent 40 years smoking. smoker's smoking. he's got a smoker's face. it face. when you smoke it prematurely ages your body. so i disagree with lorraine about the face think quite face because i think he's quite a handsome man. but unfortunately , his body, his unfortunately, his body, his face does older 59, in face does look older than 59, in my opinion . my opinion. >> but but her insult wasn't necessarily . necessarily. >> no, it was completely it was just you imagine if a man just snidey you imagine if a man had that about a woman? had said that about a woman? >> heavens, have been >> my heavens, they'd have been drummed . we got drummed out of court. we got away with it, .of course. well, yeah, she's got away yeah, she's sort of got away with pretty distasteful. >> she should apologise. that's what what what i think. but yeah. what do you reckon should. you think? i reckon she should. listen, news after listen, this is gb news 19 after

4:00. akua . we're live 4:00. i'm nana akua. we're live on tv online and on digital radio. coming up on the way worldview. we'll cross live to los israel los angeles and also to israel to get the latest on what's going there. but up next, going on there. but up next, it's for the great british it's time for the great british debate i'm debate this hour. and i'm asking, rwanda plan a asking, is the rwanda plan a gimmick i've to pull up gimmick i've got to pull up right twitter asking you right now on twitter asking you that very question. is the rwanda plan a gimmick? send me your thoughts. email gb views at gb com and tell me what gb news. com and tell me what you think. cast your vote now

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britain's new. channel >> good afternoon . it's fast >> good afternoon. it's fast approaching. 24 minutes after 4:00. this is gb news. don't forget you can download the gb news app or why not stream the show live on youtube? i'm nana akua. show live on youtube? i'm nana akua . and it's time now for the akua. and it's time now for the great british debate this hour. and is the rwanda and i'm asking is the rwanda plan a gimmick with an important vote on tuesday, rishi sunak continues to come under fire after the prime minister paid £240 million towards the rwanda plan without a single asylum seeker yet to be relocated, there . now, ahead of an there. now, ahead of an important vote on tuesday , important vote on tuesday, murmurs within the tory party are beginning to grow. gb news has been exclusively told that four groups of backbenchers will meet tomorrow to decide whether or not rwanda will actually work and they're back under and if they're back under pressure. prime minister rishi sunak the vote . so for the sunak in the vote. so for the great british debate this hour, i'm is the rwanda plan a i'm asking is the rwanda plan a gimmick? well, joining me now is

conservative lord moylan , conservative peer lord moylan, former chief immigration officer at the uk border force, kevin saunders , also former liberal saunders, also former liberal democrat norman baker. democrat minister norman baker. all right. i'm going all right. well, i'm going to start you, daniel. what do start with you, daniel. what do you think the whole purpose of this starts from recognising that the people who are arriving on the french coast and coming overin on the french coast and coming over in boats are actually being transported sorted here by very large businesses? >> these are large corporate entities. they're illegal and their networks, you can't track down their accounts or look them up like that. but they're very large they're run large businesses and they're run to make out of people who to make money out of people who are suffering. and the best way of disrupting this whole process is to stop their business model working. and that's been the thought behind all of this. so it's not a question of saying all of the illegal immigrants have arrived are going to be moved to rwanda . it's making it moved to rwanda. it's making it making it the case that if you as a refugee are paying thousands of pounds in order to

get across the channel and land up in kent or wherever, you will not be staying here, you will be going somewhere else . so you going somewhere else. so you will think twice before you actually buy that, that travel agents that travel ticket, so to speak, that they are selling you illegally and exploiting you in. and bear in mind , these people and bear in mind, these people are not just paying money. some of them aren't paying money. they're effectively going into bonded selling bonded labour. they're selling themselves practically into slavery . so it's right. they're slavery. so it's right. they're not to be able to stay not going to be able to stay here. that disrupt the here. that will disrupt the business that's the business model. and that's the plan . plan. >> all right. kevin saunders , >> all right. kevin saunders, hello . what do you think is this hello. what do you think is this whole thing a gimmick? rwanda will it actually ever work? >> it's not a gimmick. >> it's not a gimmick. >> it's not a gimmick. >> it's a very serious thing. the trouble is where the government made the mistake was announcing that this this was going to happen. >> two years ago , uh, the boris >> two years ago, uh, the boris announced it at lydd airport. >> and we've have as you said in

the beginning, no , nothing has the beginning, no, nothing has happenedin the beginning, no, nothing has happened in two years. and this is manna from heaven for the people smugglers who are telling the people, look , you've got the people, look, you've got nothing to worry about. >> the british government aren't going to do anything. >> it's all talk. going to do anything. >> it's all bluster and that helps business model . but helps the business model. but no, this is not a gimmick. >> and if we can finally get it through the courts and it happens, it will have a deterrent effect . deterrent effect. >> because you hear a lot of politicians saying that it's a ludicrous scheme and i suspect it could potentially work. norman, what do you think ? norman, what do you think? >> well, i wouldn't call it ludicrous, but what i would say is that those who are concerned about migration ought to be more concerned than are more concerned than are more concerned the fact that concerned about the fact that there are 750,000 people coming in net migration legally into this country. >> and the number who are coming by small boats, which has been given a huge amount of prominence, is actually quite a small proportion of that

750,000. the second thing is that the prime minister has composed, completely mishandled this and he's managed to upset people on both sides of the conservative party there was on the right who want to see the european convention on human rights abandoned and those on the left of the conservative party who are horrified by the idea of international law being broken . and we've now got to the broken. and we've now got to the ludicrous situation where the prime minister said he go prime minister said he can't go further because rwanda won't countenance breaking international law . the country international law. the country is by the supreme court is deemed by the supreme court to . to be unsafe. >> well, yeah. i mean , they're >> well, yeah. i mean, they're saying that and we get that. but but ultimately, it is a plan . but ultimately, it is a plan. and, you know, as lord moylan said, it, it could work. and, you know , people are taking it you know, people are taking it seriously. so i'm just wondering whether you think that the plan then is a gimmick in your view? norman i think it's i think it's a bit of rod for his own back. >> and i think it's been blown out of proportion in terms of the numbers compared to the issue migration. rwanda

the numbers compared to the issue is migration. rwanda the numbers compared to the issue is going migration. rwanda the numbers compared to the issue is going mi takeyn. rwanda itself is going to take hundreds, not thousands or tens of thousands hundreds of thousands or hundreds of thousands, only thousands, hundreds only of people . if plan people. and if this plan actually succeeds, that's to use our unfortunate phrase, a drop in the ocean . in the ocean. >> daniel, you seem to think that's just because it's hundreds. it shouldn't really matter. it would still potentially work. >> well, think it comes >> well, i think when it comes to a decision whether you're going savings going to spend your life savings on to take you to on a ticket to take you to england and you think there's a reasonable chance it's actually going take you to rwanda , going to take you to rwanda, then potentially quite then that has potentially quite a deterrent effect. it doesn't even have to be certain. just even have to be certain. it just has you know, there's a has to be, you know, there's a 1 in chance i could end up in 10 chance i could end up in rwanda . is that something rwanda. is that something you're going your on? going to spend your money on? i think the difference i appreciate norman's point that the numbers are smaller than legal migration , which is legal migration, which is a serious issue. and even to go beyond norman and say that he said 750,000 the year before last, that in fact it was 1.2 million the year before last came in. but of course, 600 and

600,000 roughly left. so that's where you get the 750 from. that's 1.2 where you get the 750 from. that's1.2 million new people coming from outside this country . and nobody seriously thinks that that can continue. but there is a difference. and that is that those people are coming in legally with our permission , in legally with our permission, and they're coming in in nearly all cases in connection with a job or studies which they are funded for. and they're not falling as a charge immediately on the state. whereas what british people feel is that there's something unfair and wrong about jumping the queue coming in over small boats on a on a small boat over the channel and it shows that the government has lost control of its borders. the fact that the government hasn't resolved it, despite saying two years ago it was going to address it goes to the question of the competence of the government and finally, of course, the people who are arriving are in immediate charge on the state who have to be

accommodated and looked after by the state at public expense from day one. so it's a very different thing. i think it strikes people as a form of cheating rather than anything else. it's not just the numbers business. >> final word to you, kevin. you've got about 30s . you've got about 30s. >> yes . i you've got about 30s. >> yes. i mean, we shouldn't confuse legal migration with illegal migration. >> i mean, there are lots of arguments with the legal migration, for a start. >> you've got to take out of the figures . figures. >> ukraine, hong kong and afghanistan. then you've got to look at what's left . and in look at what's left. and in fact, nobody would disagree that we need overseas students because the overseas students contribute so much to the economy. but with the illegal migration, the trouble is with illegal migration and we've had this since . since 2000 and under this since. since 2000 and under both labour, conservative and coalitia tions, the governments

keep changing their minds and doing something different. if they actually left it to the professionals to get on with, we could solve this problem almost overnight . overnight. >> wow. i bet they'd love that. crikey. well, why wish you would. right. well, let's . let's would. right. well, let's. let's get a final thought then. norman baken get a final thought then. norman baker. is this rwanda plan a gimmick, yes or no ? gimmick, yes or no? >> i wouldn't call it a gimmick, but what i would say is that it's the right forward. it's not the right way forward. the one the government has the one thing the government has done which is sensible is reaching a deal albania to reaching a deal with albania to try people coming try to hive off people coming from the reason is from albania. and the reason is small gone small boats numbers have gone down of that down recently is because of that deal albania. cooperation deal with albania. cooperation with other european countries is a reduce these numbers a way to reduce these numbers not barmy . plans involving not barmy. plans involving rwanda . rwanda. >> all right. kevin saunders, yes or no, is it a gimmick? no it's not a gimmick. >> it'll work. it will work. but we mustn't confuse this with negotiating with our european friends because our european friends because our european

friends haven't negotiated with us since 2000. so that's just a no no. [10 110. >> no no. >> and finally to you, daniel, yes or no gimmick? >> well, we do already cooperate with the french it's not with the french and it's not doing deal . with the french and it's not doing deal. mean, doing a great deal. i mean, it is something , doing a great deal. i mean, it is something, but it's not is doing something, but it's not doing much needs to do. doing as much as it needs to do. so gimmick. i think so it's not a gimmick. i think it can be made work. but the it can be made to work. but the point the government now is point for the government now is they've got make and they've got to make it work and they've got to make it work and they haven't time. they haven't got much time. >> to make it >> well, they've got to make it work, toast. work, otherwise they're toast. kevin saunders, thank you very much. officer much. chief, immigration officer for lord daniel for uk border force lord daniel moylan conservative and moylan, conservative peer, and also , former lib moylan, conservative peer, and also minister. , former lib moylan, conservative peer, and also minister. thank former lib moylan, conservative peer, and also minister. thank yourer lib moylan, conservative peer, and also minister. thank you so lib moylan, conservative peer, and also minister. thank you so much dem minister. thank you so much for your thoughts. what you for your thoughts. what do you think at home? you're with me. i'm nana this is gb on i'm nana akua this is gb news on tv online and on digital radio. coming up , tv online and on digital radio. coming up, we'll continue with the great british this coming up, we'll continue with the g i'm british this coming up, we'll continue with the g i'm asking, this coming up, we'll continue with the g i'm asking, is this coming up, we'll continue with the g i'm asking, is the this coming up, we'll continue with the g i'm asking, is the rwanda hour. i'm asking, is the rwanda plan a gimmick? you'll hear the thoughts danny thoughts of my panel. danny kelly christine hamilton. kelly and christine hamilton. and don't and still to come, don't forget this outside . my mystery this week's outside. my mystery guest speaks about his transformation after 15 years behind who do you think he behind bars. who do you think he is? but first, let's get your latest news sophia . thank

latest news with sophia. thank you, nana. >> it's 433. i'm sophia wenzler in the newsroom . some breaking in the newsroom. some breaking news met police say two teenage girls have been arrested on suspicion of robbery after a woman was attacked in london. a warning this video shows distressing images. footage of the attack has been circulating on social media showing the 20 year old walking in stamford hill and then being robbed and beaten . the woman, who is from beaten. the woman, who is from an orthodox jewish community was reportedly left bruised but did not need to go to hospital , met. not need to go to hospital, met. police say it's keeping an open mind about the motive the mind about the motive for the attack treating a attack but are treating it as a possible . gb news possible hate crime. gb news understands tomorrow tory mps will give their verdict on whether the rwanda bill is workable. conservative mp sir bill cash will present the findings ahead of the crunch second vote on tuesday . the second vote on tuesday. the prime minister has come under pressure after it was discovered he paid £240 million towards a

rwanda plan without a single flight taking off tory sources say the mps will decide whether to support the legislation tomorrow or if necessary, hold a second meeting ahead of the vote that evening . the labour leader that evening. the labour leader will warn the tories can no longer govern the country because warring camps are, as he describes , fighting like rats in describes, fighting like rats in a sack . in a speech on the same a sack. in a speech on the same day as the scheduled vote on the government's rwanda policy, he'll claim it's labour that shares britain's values. he'll claim it's labour that shares britain's values . despite shares britain's values. despite the pressures of over £240 million policy that's been marred by legal challenges. the prime minister called on labour to back his emergency legislation . baroness michelle legislation. baroness michelle mone says she made an error in publicly denying her links to the ppe firm medpro. it was awarded government contracts worth more than £200 million to supply personal protective equipment after she recommended it to ministers. the national

crime agency is investigating the firm and its connection to the firm and its connection to the conservative peer . lady mone the conservative peer. lady mone argues she is being used as a scapegoat by the government for its own covid failings . its own covid failings. mcdonald's has apologised after footage posted on social media showed a security guard mopping the floor where a homeless man was sitting. the video was taken on victoria street in london last night and shows the man trying to move his sleeping bag and duvet away from the water as it seeped underneath. in the video he says, leave me alone before one security guard kicks a blanket out of the way and splashes more water along the pavement. mick donald said it was shocked and saddened by the footage . and you can get more on footage. and you can get more on all those stories by visiting our website at gbnews.com . now our website at gbnews.com. now it's back to . nana thank you. it's back to. nana thank you. >> sophia 36. after four nana akua. coming up, it's world view will cross live to los angeles

and get the latest from paul duddridge, host of the politics people podcast . but next, it's people podcast. but next, it's time the great british time for the great british debate. this hour, i'm asking is the rwanda plan a gimmick? i've got to pull right on got to pull up right now on twitter asking that very twitter asking you that very question the rwanda plan question is the rwanda plan a gimmick ? send me your thoughts. gimmick? send me your thoughts. email gbviews@gbnews.com or tweet me at .

mornings from 930 on. >> gb news as .

>> gb news as. it's 40 minutes after 4:00. >> this is gb news. we are the people's channel. i'm nana a queer welcome on board. if you've just tuned in, where the hell have you been? well it's time for the great british time now for the great british debate i'm debate this hour. and i'm asking, rwanda a asking, is the rwanda plan a gimmick important vote gimmick with an important vote on sunak on tuesday, rishi sunak continues to come under fire after the prime minister paid £240 million towards the rwanda plan without a single asylum seeker yet to be relocated, there . so murmurs within the there. so murmurs within the tory party are growing, with four groups of backbenchers meeting tomorrow to decide if it's actually workable and whether or not they'll back the prime minister so for the great british debate this hour, i'm asking, is the rwanda plan a gimmick? let's see what my panel make of that. i'm joined by author and broadcaster , author and broadcaster, broadcaster and journalist danny kelly, also broadcaster and author hamilton. author christine hamilton. christine i've got to start with

you.the christine i've got to start with you. the rwanda plan, in your view, you think it's a view, do you think it's a gimmick ? oh, no. gimmick? oh, no. >> to answer the direct question, it's not a gimmick question, no, it's not a gimmick . i think question, no, it's not a gimmick . ithink theory question, no, it's not a gimmick . i think theory it it could . i think in theory it it could and it should work . if they'd and it should work. if they'd managed to get it off the ground and however many years ago it was first talked about, then i think it could have been successful. so far, they've managed to send at least two, is it not? or three home secretaries to rwanda , but not a secretaries to rwanda, but not a single immigrant. so no, it's not a gimmick, but it hasn't got a hope in hell of becoming law. it will never . look, look at the it will never. look, look at the commons. the commons. the tory party is literally riven asunder in so many ways, but in particular by this it won't get through the commons. if it did miraculously get through the commons, it wouldn't get through the lords. they running out the lords. they are running out of got what's the of time. they've got what's the date today? they've got just over a i they've over a i think they've got a year and week or something year and a week or something before they would to before they would have to call an latest. so an election at the latest. so realistically they've got way under a year before there's an election. simply isn't

election. there simply isn't time. not single person will time. not a single person will be on a plane to rwanda except possibly another home secretary so it is completely and utterly doomed because the tory party haven't their together haven't got their act together soon enough. it's not soon enough. but no, it's not a gimmick , but in theory should gimmick, but in theory it should work. it sounds like a work. but it sounds like a gimmick they even want gimmick if they don't even want to themselves. gimmick if they don't even want to danny themselves. gimmick if they don't even want to danny ithemselves. gimmick if they don't even want to danny i disagree.ys. gimmick if they don't even want to danny i disagree. i. gimmick if they don't even want to danny i disagree. i think >> danny i disagree. i think it's definition of a it's the definition of a gimmick. gimmick is an gimmick. a gimmick is an idea designed to attract attention. gimmick. a gimmick is an idea desi thisi to attract attention. gimmick. a gimmick is an idea desi this is» attract attention. gimmick. a gimmick is an idea desi this is an tract attention. gimmick. a gimmick is an idea desi this is an idea attention. gimmick. a gimmick is an idea desi this is an idea designed to and this is an idea designed to attract attention. it's designed to attention of the to attract the attention of the immigrants of the financial. what are they called the not the illegal immigrants , the economic illegal immigrants, the economic migrants? forgive me . okay. and migrants? forgive me. okay. and there's a difference in opinion about what defines them . but i about what defines them. but i think a gimmick is something designed to attract attention. and that's what it's got. now, separately, whether the plane is going to take off is something else that discuss . and i else that we can discuss. and i agree. i don't think the planes are going to take off. i think the planes take the planes need to take off. there fabulous fabulous the planes need to take off. there of fabulous fabulous the planes need to take off. there of journalism is fabulous the planes need to take off. there of journalism by fabulous the planes need to take off. there of journalism by mark ous piece of journalism by mark whyte, gb news foreign affairs guy who's a security editor,

home security. he's a real credit to this station. he really is. and he went to the other side of the channel and he interviewed i think interviewed like, i think either people or he people smugglers or he interviewed migrants, interviewed economic migrants, stroke illegals, whatever you want and he said stroke illegals, whatever you wantthey're and he said stroke illegals, whatever you wantthey're laughing.d he said stroke illegals, whatever you wantthey're laughing. they'red that they're laughing. they're openly laughing the british openly laughing at the british government it was a fabulous piece original investigative piece of original investigative journalism. i think people on journalism. so i think people on the other side of the channel, i think they think of it as a gimmick. but but the light hearted definition of it, that's just a gimmick. it's never going to . to work. >> i think think it's >> i think they think it's a joke. mean , let's dance joke. i mean, let's not dance around definition of around on the definition of gimmick. i think they think it's a the plan, it's a joke. the rwanda plan, it's a joke. think mean, it joke. but i think i mean, it could it's could have worked. it's a perfectly feasible plan. it could worked if it had been could have worked if it had been executed more quickly and properly. but it's absolutely had it now. >> i think the pace of it is the issue here, because if you think about it , the internal about it, the internal challenges and struggles are coming from within the same party. and then also you've got the legal profession as well, who are i mean, the waiting to pounce. the daily mail did

pounce. well, the daily mail did a expose. i mean, that pounce. well, the daily mail did a incredible ose. i mean, that pounce. well, the daily mail did a incredible where mean, that pounce. well, the daily mail did a incredible where they , that was incredible where they uncovered the whole business with a lot of lawyers who were actually advantage actually just taking advantage of you've got of the system. so you've got that to with. so the whole that to deal with. so the whole thing an industry people thing is an industry of people who to perpetuate this who want to perpetuate this system . and any little challenge system. and any little challenge or gap . and i think this is or gap. and i think this is where jenrick and suella where robert jenrick and suella braverman absolutely on the braverman were absolutely on the money. if you don't close those loopholes, it's a gimmick because nothing's going to happen. >> i mean, it's become a gimmick, but don't think gimmick, but i don't think the actual to start with was actual idea to start with was a gimmick. we're dancing on a pin, aren't we? >> well, question it >> well, the question is, is it a gimmick? i'm just using the definition gimmick is. definition of what a gimmick is. i'll you what was great in i'll tell you what was great in pmqs rishi sunak pmqs on wednesday. rishi sunak having a pop at keir starmer having a pop at sir keir starmer . sir keir starmer is an arsenal fan and they are sponsored by the rwandan government. visit rwanda on their left arm. no, really? yes. it's so embarrassing. it's humiliating. he's saying that. he's saying it's an country , that it's an unsafe country, that they're to sent back to they're going to be sent back to places potential torture. yet places of potential torture. yet arsenal football club are

sponsored by visit rwanda by the rwanda tourist board club keir starmer supports arsenal football club rishi sunak put him back in his box. >> well, do you see the thing is though, i find it quite when people say, oh, but it's got a history of genocide and all this. think myself, well, this. i think to myself, well, well, minute. how soon this. i think to myself, well, well, we minute. how soon this. i think to myself, well, well, we tradingminute. how soon this. i think to myself, well, well, we trading with te. how soon this. i think to myself, well, well, we trading with germany oon this. i think to myself, well, well, we trading with germany and were we trading with germany and other countries ? bad histories? other countries? bad histories? how soon will we trading with them? so what is actually behind this? and i there is an this? and i think there is an element in there. element of racism in there. i have to very much so, so so have to very much so, so much so because all black people. so it's country. it's in a african country. oh, they're as they're not as civilised as us and genocides will be and all their genocides will be different ones. we'll different to our our ones. we'll accept the one happened accept the one that happened with in with the german german in germany and we're happy to do business only few business with them. only a few years talking years later. but we're talking about saying , years later. but we're talking abo many saying, years later. but we're talking abo many ago saying , years later. but we're talking abo many ago hadying , oh, many years ago they had a genocide. and it's like, well, they're not it so you they're not doing it now. so you have you have to carry on have to you have to carry on with life. i think too many people, when they think of rwanda they of you rwanda, they think of do you remember rwanda remember that film, hotel rwanda , about the genocide? >> but heard it was >> but i've heard it was horrific . and i think people horrific. and i think people think, rwanda. that's

think, gosh, rwanda. and that's what their minds. what they have in their minds. aranda changed out all aranda has changed out of all recognition then, and recognition since then, and i don't see any problem with sending finally closer to >> and just finally closer to home, northern ireland's good friday that, friday agreement prior to that, buildings blown up, buildings were being blown up, soldiers assassinated soldiers were being assassinated , and open warfare , armoured , and open warfare, armoured personnel carriers, little mini tanks rolling on the streets of belfast . belfast. >> it's just an excuse to kind of as if it's a point to say they're not as civilised because they're not as civilised because they're black. >> i think you're absolutely >> and i think you're absolutely right. i think you're right as a black think that . black person think that. >> rwanda actually the >> and rwanda is actually the jewel in africa's crown. that's what but listen, what they call it. but listen, this you this shows nothing without you and welcome and your views. let's welcome our great british their our great british voices, their opportunity show opportunity to be on the show and they think and tell us what they think about the topics we're discussing, we discussing, where should we go to go to you go to now? oh, let's go to you go to now? oh, let's go to you go to northamptonshire . should we to northamptonshire. should we speak miranda? miranda speak to miranda? miranda richardson . the miranda richardson. not the miranda richardson, gb news richardson, but gb news is miranda . miranda. miranda richardson. miranda. >> miranda. miranda. richardson >> miranda. miranda. richardson >> miranda. miranda. richardson >> miranda. richardson what do you think of afternoon, everybody ? everybody? >> how are we today? >> how are we today? >> fine, thank you. you look fabulous. by the way. what's your view on this?

>> thank very much . >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> i think it's >> do you know what i think it's right with what everybody said that actually started out that actually what started out could have been something really positive has of snowballed positive has kind of snowballed into something where everybody has kind of jumped in, had their little go on the bandwagon and unfortunately has made it, you know , like danny says, look, know, like danny says, look, like that gimmick , if you're like that gimmick, if you're going use that phrase and going to use that phrase and think, you know, the premise was a great idea. but in how they've run with it as quite often happens, it just doesn't , you happens, it just doesn't, you know, gather any speed. it just goes off in a hundred different directions with everybody wanting a piece of a piece of the pie and actually missing the aspect that we're all concerned about the first place. and i about in the first place. and i think that's made it think that that's what's made it , you know, look like this , you , you know, look like this, you know, vision of they don't need it. and like you say, you know, we have to say is that that racist aspect that well, you know, we don't need to help them for one reason. one reason or another. and it's such a shame because, you know, if we'd have

got it right and we'd dealt with it right, it could have been a very story . very different story. >> start just >> they need to start just getting on actually putting getting on with actually putting policy through that of arguing with other playing with each other and then playing politics trying be i'll politics and trying to be i'll be the one that leads now. i mean, they are one party. we vote a party, not an vote for a party, not an individual. should on individual. so should get on with miranda richardson, with it. miranda richardson, thank much . she's a great thank you so much. she's a great british welcome british voice. welcome northampton. and she looks fabulous, miranda, fabulous, isn't she? miranda, lovely . so what lovely to speak to you. so what do think then? your thoughts do you think then? your thoughts on this one. lots of you've been getting with your getting in touch with your views. read of views. i'll read some of those in if you've in just a moment. but if you've just up to just tuned in, it's coming up to 49 4:00. i'm nana 49 minutes after 4:00. i'm nana akua. my outside akua. coming up now, my outside guest , he's akua. coming up now, my outside guest, he's amazing guest, he's an amazing person right me let me give right now. let me let me give you clues. you've got to you some clues. you've got to work he tells work out who he is now. he tells of his journey from of of his journey from one of britain's most wanted gang members . yes. having members. yes. to having spent jail time with some of the uk's most prolific criminals, including charles bronson. you can just see a peek of his curly hair behind the question mark. who do you think it is? send me your gb views. your thoughts. gb views. gbnews.com your thoughts. gb views. gb news.com let's your thoughts. gb views. gbnews.com let's get gbnews.com but first, let's get an your weather.

an update with your weather. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar our sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> good afternoon. welcome to your latest gb news weather. i'm ellie glaisyer low pressure still very much in charge of our weather over the next couple of days, bringing us some unsettled conditions some and conditions and some wet and windy weather the way. storm windy weather on the way. storm fergus named by eireann fergus named by met eireann slowly to move its way slowly continues to move its way towards the uk through the rest of and into monday. this of sunday and into monday. this will its will bring rain spreading its way across parts of scotland. and already falling on way across parts of scotland. and very already falling on way across parts of scotland. and very saturated falling on way across parts of scotland. and very saturated ground on way across parts of scotland. and very saturated ground with some very saturated ground with further rain pushing across northern of england northern parts of england through early of through the early hours of monday very strong monday morning. some very strong winds , too, particularly winds, too, particularly across western wales and western parts of wales and through bristol channel, through the bristol channel, where we could see gusts where we could see those gusts up an hour. up to 60 miles an hour. temperatures across the south around or degrees. but around 7 or 8 degrees. but across of scotland , we across parts of scotland, we could down minus one or could see down to minus one or minus some icy minus two with some icy stretches, particularly for southwest southwest scotland through the early hours of monday . elsewhere, monday morning. elsewhere, though, generally starts though, monday generally starts a drier and brighter day for

most of sunshine a drier and brighter day for mcwe of sunshine a drier and brighter day for mcwe head of sunshine a drier and brighter day for mcwe head throughyf sunshine a drier and brighter day for mcwe head through the nshine a drier and brighter day for mcwe head through the afternoon as we head through the afternoon , perhaps few showers skirting as we head through the afternoon , pacrossy few showers skirting as we head through the afternoon , pacross northern|owers skirting as we head through the afternoon , pacross northern parts. skirting as we head through the afternoon , pacross northern parts of:irting in across northern parts of england eastern scotland , as england and eastern scotland, as well those showers well as seeing those showers continue the continue to push in from the coast. lighter coast. but with those lighter winds with some sunshine, winds and with some sunshine, perhaps feeling more perhaps feeling a little more pleasant days , pleasant than recent days, around the south around 12 degrees in the south and generally around average, further north as tuesday starts a cloudy and wet picture again as rain continues to push northwards into parts of scotland. again, already falling on very saturated ground . on that very saturated ground. so some localised flooding here that sets us up for further rain through the rest of tuesday and into wednesday perhaps into wednesday. but perhaps hints little more hints of something a little more settled way through the settled on the way through the latter of next week . latter half of next week. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers as sponsors of weather on .

gb news this is gb views. >> we are the people's channel. i'm nana akua. welcome if you've just tuned in, it's just coming up to five minutes to 5:00. we are live on tv, online and on digital radio. and it's time now for world view. let's travel over to america and speak to the host of the politics people podcast, duddridge , and get podcast, paul duddridge, and get the latest on what's going on in the latest on what's going on in the trump. paul, good the world of trump. paul, good to talk to you. so lots of things happening. donald trump, he's leading the opposition. what's going on? >> he's leading in all polls and

i know that this gets said all the time . and you should listen the time. and you should listen to polls. shouldn't listen the time. and you should listen to polls. but shouldn't listen the time. and you should listen to polls. but what's n't listen to polls. but what's significant, he's leading in polls stage in polls that at this stage in 2016, obviously he went on 2016, when obviously he went on to glorious victory , he is to glorious victory, he is leading in polls that he wasn't leading. he's now 60, 60% support. for example , with the support. for example, with the republican party. he was at like 35% support at this stage with the republican party in the in 2015, leading up to 2016. so he is way ahead. even cnn are now reporting that he is in a stronger position now than he was when he went on to win in 2016. so his opposition , these 2016. so his opposition, these four other candidates that are seeking to be the candidate for the republican party, the nominee for the republican party , they're polling at like 15. nikki haley now has gone into the lead of the four trail. the four trailing him. she's at 15. and they get excited about that. he's at 59, 60. so everybody,

even the left wing, establish is acknowledging that he is leading by all metrics and now leading against biden . four points against biden. four points again, for the very first time, serious pollsters and journalists and publications are acknowledging that he is leading biden. and they've been very reluctant to do so. they've been very reluctant to do that. >> though, has taken very reluctant to do that. >> another though, has taken very reluctant to do that. >> another wholejh, has taken very reluctant to do that. >> another whole new as taken very reluctant to do that. >> another whole new lookzen very reluctant to do that. >> another whole new look that, on another whole new look that, wow, his hair looks it's hilarious what's going on with it? it looks like at the top of a car . now, it? it looks like at the top of a car. now, you mentioned biden. what about hunting? doesn't it sort of like ringing up like that? like it looks like he's left the colonel can't a left the colonel can't have a go at people's hair. >> at me. what's >> look at me. what's this? actually to be honest, this isn't real. actually to be honest, this isn'well, real. actually to be honest, this isn'well, iteal. actually to be honest, this isn'well, it is.. paid it, >> well, it is. i paid for it, but actually , you know, but it's not actually, you know, it's sitting on my head. what about biden, then? it's sitting on my head. what about hunterden, then? it's sitting on my head. what about hunter has then? it's sitting on my head. what about hunter has been? it's sitting on my head. what about hunter has been hit with because hunter has been hit with criminal at last criminal tax charges at last something's happened to him that he's actually trouble he's actually got in trouble for some he's been some of the things he's been doing some of the things he's been doiial last. exactly. yes. some >> at last. exactly. yes. some of the partying that we've seen from the hunter biden laptop has

finally coming home to roost. people are you know, the tax officials are actually looking at the spending that he's obviously spent on having quite a jolly time by the look of it and saying, well, where did this money come from? you haven't paid tax on it. and so that's turning tax turning into a criminal tax avoidance case. and it's very, very serious. hunter biden's hunter biden's attorneys are on tv this week saying this is unfair . tv this week saying this is unfair. nobody else tv this week saying this is unfair . nobody else should be unfair. nobody else should be treated like this . nobody else treated like this. nobody else would be treated so unfairly . would be treated so unfairly. and like trump's in court and it's like trump's in court again. and it's like this is just political , do you think? just political, do you think? yes, of the judiciary yes, the whole of the judiciary has turned political . so has been turned political. so hunter now is now this is hunter biden now is now this is great and jolly. however it is serious for joe biden great and jolly. however it is serious forjoe biden because the financial and the tax avoidance criminal charges begin an unravelling and maybe shining light on perhaps shining light on business connections between dean hunter and joe. it's more and more looking forward to

2016. sorry, 2024 is looking more and more likely that joe biden is going to be brought down by his own side, by his own judiciary before we even get to the election. i think that we are beginning to see the end of the biden administration and the parachute candidate being brought in ready for the next election, because this this hunter biden case will it anyway? it depends which side you take, but it is going to start exposing ing connections between hunter and joe. >> it does feel like that his numbers coming up now joe biden and very briefly, you've got about 30s on this. there's a criminal charges threatened in texas for an abortion case. what's about ? well, look , what's that about? well, look, you and i were the only ones talking in the midterm elections. >> there was going to be a red wave. trump was going to beat all. absolutely not all. and we said absolutely not going the going to happen because of the roe abortion. they've now roe v wade abortion. they've now done case in texas. done a criminal case in texas. some and she's some poor woman, and she's had to to court. it is such a bad to go to court. it is such a bad look. i think that this is the thing that defines the 24

election. i think it it election. i think it makes it very, difficult trump very, very difficult for trump to because you've got to win because you've got republicans criminalising abortion . and there's a case in abortion. and there's a case in texas right now the attorney texas right now and the attorney general will general saying that he will prosecute perform prosecute doctors who perform late term abortions. i think it's really difficult for the republicans wear this well. republicans to wear this well. >> well, listen, it's always a pleasure. thank you so for pleasure. thank you so much for joining us. that's paul duddridge, of politics duddridge, host of the politics people podcast. that was worldview . you and some you worldview. you and some of you have in touch. have been getting in touch. i'll read on read some of your messages on nigel farage potentially joining conservative steve says conservative party steve says nigel ship would nigel farage jumping ship would be the worst move he make be the worst move he could make and those who are presently and also those who are presently politically more politically homeless feel more isolated than ever. well, listen, all your thoughts listen, keep all your thoughts coming. you're watching and listening gb on listening to gb news on tv, onune listening to gb news on tv, online digital radio. online and on digital radio. lots more still to come in the next hour . next hour. >> this is sophia wenzler in the newsroom. gb news understands

tomorrow tory mps will give their verdict on whether the rwanda bill is lawful . concert rwanda bill is lawful. concert lviv mp sir bill cash will present the findings ahead of the crunch. second vote on tuesday. the prime minister has come under pressure after it was discovered he paid £240 million towards rwanda. plan without a single flight taking off. if tory sources say the mps will decide whether to support the legislation tomorrow or if necessary , hold a second meeting necessary, hold a second meeting ahead of the vote . israeli tanks ahead of the vote. israeli tanks are battling to reach gaza's main southern city after ordering civilians to evacuate . ordering civilians to evacuate. khan younis was hit by heavy bombardment through the night as the israel defence force advanced . but israeli prime advanced. but israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu says international calls to end the war are inconsistent . at war are inconsistent. at briefing his cabinet, netanyahu told the leaders of france, germany and other countries , you germany and other countries, you cannot on the one hand, support

the elimination of hamas and on the elimination of hamas and on the other pressure us to end the war, which would stop the elimination of the terror group . elimination of the terror group. matt police say two teenage girls have been arrested on suspicion of robbery after a woman was attacked in london. a warning this video shows distressing images and footage of the attack has been circulating on social media showing the 20 year old walking in stamford hill and then being robbed and beaten . the woman who robbed and beaten. the woman who is from the orthodox jewish community reportedly left community was reportedly left bruised but did not need any , bruised but did not need any, did not need to go to hospital . did not need to go to hospital. matt, police say it's keeping an open mind about the motive for the attack and are treating it as possible hate crime . a as a possible hate crime. a mother has been charged with manslaughter after her two sets of twins died in a south london house fire in 2020. one. the children, aged three and four, were home when the ground floor of the house became engulfed in flames . they were treated at the flames. they were treated at the scene before being taken to two south london hospitals where

they were pronounced dead. police say 29 year old devika rose is also charged with child abandonment and is expected to appear at croydon. magistrate court tomorrow . the mayor of court tomorrow. the mayor of london says the met police is chronically underfunded . in chronically underfunded. in a letter to the home secretary, sadiq khan says london faces unique pressures as the capital city and urges the home office to boost the force's finances . to boost the force's finances. as he says, the underfunding is highlighted by the challenge of policing the protests over the conflict in gaza and israel. mr khan warns the funding gap could now be as . khan warns the funding gap could now be as. high as £240 million. baroness michelle mone says she made an error in publicly denying her links to the ppe firm medpro. it was awarded government contracts worth more than £200 million to supply personal protective equipment after she recommended it to ministers . the national crime ministers. the national crime agency is investigating the firm and its connection to the

concerns of peer lady mone argues she is being used as a scapegoat by the government for its own covid failings . as its own covid failings. as a judge has ordered the bbc to release emails related to martin bashir's controversial 1995 interview with princess diana . a interview with princess diana. a warning the following video has some flashing images. mr warning the following video has some flashing images . mr bashir some flashing images. mr bashir officially stepped down from his job at the broadcaster in 2021 after it emerged he had secured the interview through deception and faking documents. judge bnan and faking documents. judge brian kennedy said the corporation had been inconsistent and unreliable in the way it dealt with the initial request to release material under the freedom of information act. the material related to how the broadcaster handled the scandal when it came to light in 2020 for fresh weather warnings have been issued as storm fergus sweeps across the country. yellow weather warnings and over 40 flood warnings have been issued across england and scotland . across england and scotland. gale force winds are likely to hit south wales and areas around

the bristol channel, while homes and cars in lightroom village in ireland were seriously damaged after a possible tornado hit the area . emergency services were area. emergency services were called after high winds from storm met. irene flattened , storm met. irene flattened, trees ripped off rooftops and buildings and left debris scattered on a street . this is scattered on a street. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on your digital radio, and on your smart speaker. by saying play gb news now it's back to . nana back to. nana >> thank you, sophia . this is gb >> thank you, sophia. this is gb news on tv , online and on news on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua and for the next hour, me and my panel will be taking on some of the big topics hitting the headunes the big topics hitting the headlines right now. this show is all about opinion. it's mine. it's theirs . and of course, it's it's theirs. and of course, it's yours. we'll be debating, discussing, times we will discussing, and at times we will disagree, be disagree, but no one will be cancelled . and so joining me cancelled. and so joining me today is broadcaster and journalist danny kelly, also

broadcaster and author christine hamilton. to come, each hamilton. still to come, each sunday at five, i'm joined by a celebrity, a former mp or someone who has extremely someone who has had an extremely interesting career to take a look at life after the job. we talk lessons learnt talk highs, lows, lessons learnt and next on the and what comes next on the outside. and today guest outside. and today my guest tells britain's tells his story from britain's most wanted gang member to meeting charles bronson while sentenced to 15 years imprisonment to an advocate for better lives as an ambassador for peace with his own autobiography. but who on earth could those curls belong to behind the question mark? then for the great british debate this hour, i'm asking is the onune this hour, i'm asking is the online appointment booking system fit for purpose? as thousands struggle to get appointments, is the nhs technology failing us all in particular those who are of the older generation ? and as ever, older generation? and as ever, you can get in touch. email gbviews@gbnews.com or tweet me at . gb news. so it's fast

at. gb news. so it's fast approaching seven minutes after 5:00. and as ever, each sunday, just after five, i'm joined by a celebrity, a former mp or someone who's had an extremely interesting career . we take a interesting career. we take a look at life after the job. we talk highs lows and lessons talk highs and lows and lessons learnt what comes next on learnt and what comes next on the today special the outside and today my special guest is life story is nothing short of extraordinary from one of the uk's most wanted london gang members to spending 15 years as a category a prisoner, he's walked through the darkest corridors of life, but today he's a successful ceo , author he's a successful ceo, author and tv personality . now he's and tv personality. now he's shared his tale in a tell all book from demons of childhood to the shadows of crime. his autobiography unveils the journey inside some of the uk's darkest and most dangerous prisons. i would say what it was called , but then i would give called, but then i would give you his name. it was released in 2003, and guest is not just 2003, and my guest is not just turning a new leaf, but helping others avoid the path that he once . can you any once walked. can you guess? any ideas? i'm pleased to say ideas? well i'm pleased to say i'm joined by gangster turned i'm joined by ex gangster turned

ceo, stephen gillen. stephen, welcome . welcome. >> hi. hi. how are you doing? i'm loving the question mark. >> do you like the question mark? little curl to give mark? just a little curl to give away tiny clue. oh, is it? away a tiny clue. oh, is it? it's stephen gillen. stephen talk to me about your life then. what what like what was what was it like growing and what kind of growing up and what kind of background you have? background did you have? what did yeah did your parents do? yeah there's no there's no excuses. >> of course . no, no, but. but >> of course. no, no, but. but the fact is, some of us are positioned for tough starts . you positioned for tough starts. you know, mine was mine was like that. i was actually born here. i was taken over to belfast, you know , as a as a small baby, six know, as a as a small baby, six months old. this was in in the early 70s when, you know, the war was over there. there was some some bad, bad times over there for everyone . and i stayed there for everyone. and i stayed there for everyone. and i stayed there until i was nine. so that was the start for me. >> so you say that it was nine, so you would presumably be there around the troubles and everything? yeah and then so, so

what happened then? after nine years did and years old, where did you go and what what transpired? >> , i see, you know, >> well, i see, you know, horrendous things, you know, that human beings do do to each other. in the middle that other. in the middle of that over you know, over there in ireland, you know, so already conditioned in so i was already conditioned in a although behind the door a way, although behind the door and family was very and my family was very religious. there was a very kind so i had i had a good foundation there. but of course, outside was, you know, was chaos . my was, you know, was chaos. my surrogate mother died of cancer. and, you know, when i was aged nine. so it was deemed i must go back to england. so i was the little child. >> and so when you say surrogate mother, she carried but mother, she carried you, but she wasn't mother. mother, she carried you, but she waswell, mother. mother, she carried you, but she waswell, was ther. mother, she carried you, but she waswell, was left my mother >> well, i was left my mother left me ireland when i was a left me in ireland when i was a child to come back to england to try and try and make a better life us. but, you know, life for us. but, you know, i didn't them didn't see her for all them years. so surrogate years. so. so my surrogate mother my aunt . mother was was really my aunt. no, your aunt. >> okay. and so what? so she died then? did you back to died then? did you go back to your mother? >> she of cancer. your mother? >> so, she of cancer. your mother? >> so, you of cancer. your mother? >> so, you know, )f cancer. your mother? >> so, you know, i cancer. your mother? >> so, you know, i canci'. your mother? >> so, you know, i canci was >> so, you know, i was. i was a young the boat, you young child on the boat, you know, with nothing going over to

this alien place, this alien people . was her at people. and i was with her at the start for. for a little bit , the start for. for a little bit, but i. i ended up in, in foster homes and children's homes, you know, succession of , of bad know, succession of, of bad places after that. so it kind of went downhill really when i come back very, very quickly. >> oh no . so when did you find >> oh no. so when did you find yourself sort of in a life of crime that transpire ? >> 7. >>i ? >> i think the conditioning 7 >> i think the conditioning is very important as we know. you know, and you know , the know, and you know, the environment, it definitely triggers. i mean , we've got a triggers. i mean, we've got a lot of a lot science behind lot of a lot of science behind this that explains this this nowadays that explains this . so we to be accountable . . so we have to be accountable. but there are explanations here of the roadmap of why it was so it was so conducive. you know, for me. and i was so open to be groomed into that, into that kind life . i was, you know, kind of a life. i was, you know, i was feral , feral little i was your feral, feral little kid on the street really in the east end, right? the east end, right? that's the bottom line. you little young bottom line. you a little young man . yeah, but survival. man. yeah, but survival. survival is the thing here. you

know, you have to say it as it is. and, you know, once you do, you know, you buy yourself , you know, you buy yourself, you're carrying a lot of trauma. you have right you don't have the right guidance, the right instruction. you right you haven't got that right comfort around you and all that. you're you know, you're an accident and waiting to happen you're you know, you're an acymany and waiting to happen you're you know, you're an acymany ways. raiting to happen you're you know, you're an acymany ways. and g to happen you're you know, you're an acymany ways. and ofo happen you're you know, you're an acymany ways. and of course,en in many ways. and of course, that did, you know, very quickly i >> -- >> so you stumbled into what then of what age then and kind of at what age were sort of were you when you sort of stumbled into a life of crime? >> was very young. nana >> well, i was very young. nana you started you know, it started it started early because there a lot of early because there was a lot of a brutality in some a lot of brutality in some of the i in. so you the homes that i was in. so you know, it was trying to protect some the younger , younger some of the younger, younger onesin some of the younger, younger ones in but i myself was ones in there. but i myself was only a tiny kid. you know, it's quite brutal , to honest. quite brutal, to be honest. they should manner of things should do all manner of things in there. so there was more violence and, you so we violence and, you know, so we used away and all this used to run away and all this stuff we'd stuff that stuff and we'd do stuff and that was it. it was was the start of it. it was petty went to petty crime then, which went to on serious organised crime. very, quickly. very, very quickly. >> how get into >> how did you get into organised crime and what sort of things you found yourself in a gang and, and you know, how old were you and you know, did you

have an initiation process ? what have an initiation process? what did you have to do to get into that gang ? that gang? >> well, starts early. it's >> well, it starts early. it's a little bit more than that, you know, of course, we're know, because, of course, we're looking for a family. we're looking for a family. we're looking right. you looking to belong. right. you know, you're really open that know, you're really open to that process know, process because, oh, you know, we're family . we've always we're your family. we've always got back and this stuff got your back and all this stuff and what and of course, this is what you're for as a young you're screaming for as a young child that protection and child that that protection and that , that, you know, that belonging, that, you know, being part of something. so it was really young from 13, 14, i mean, you know, the truth of it is dark as it is. you know, there was firearms and all this stuff around us by the age of 15, 15, 16. and i was, you know, ran some of the real unfortunately, some of the real hardcore people was the only kind of role models i, i kind of had back then. >> and you were first imprisoned when you were 14 for few when you were 14 for a few months. did you do? months. what did you do? >> this was this was a fight and it was a gang fight, you know, and someone, got hurt in and someone, someone got hurt in there. it gbh really ? there. it was gbh really? >> yeah. that's terrible. it is.

and how the victim. okay. yeah >> yeah, the victim's. okay. this was the life that we was. we was involved in. i mean, there's no excuses here. i'm not. i'm not the excuses guy, you know? and have be you know? and you have to be accountable. but, you know, the way way to change this like way. the way to change this like i now get messaging i do now and get the messaging across. now say it across. now, now is say how it was was. but you know how people need to be because this is not a glamorise life. there's no good endings in this. glamorise life. there's no good endings in this . you know, i endings in this. you know, i have to just say that. endings in this. you know, i havsoo just say that. endings in this. you know, i havsoo jusspentthat. endings in this. you know, i havso o jusspent then endings in this. you know, i havsoo jusspent then in 1991, so >> so you spent then in 1991, so you were 22, is that right? you were in you were in prison for 17 as well? yeah. what did 17 years as well? yeah. what did you do to end up in prison for that? >> it was it was armed robbery. i mean, the truth of it was i was you i was in that was you know, i was in that life. i'd been positioned in that life. of course , i you that life. of course, i you know, i had the choices. i didn't know anything else. i was i was very engineered to be that person that i was at that time. and um, you know, it's they, you know, they lock you in. but, you know, they lock you in. but, you know, they lock you in. but, you know, the other thing as well , i know, the other thing as well, i have to say is some of the people in that life, do they

have good parts of themselves? are course are they talented? of course they are, because they you they are, because they are you know, been know, they could have been anything else. >> just happened, >> but just so happened, what was robbed and you was it that you robbed and you know, must have bad know, it must have been bad for you time in there. >> yeah, it was armed robbery. you , and flying you know, and the flying squad was involved , you know, and was involved, you know, and there an operation of over a there was an operation of over a couple so was couple of years. so there was all of thing. and all this kind of thing. and there were shots fired, unfortunately, on the on the, you know, that robbery where you know, on that robbery where where finally, finally where i was finally, finally arrested. it was already i, you know, they call it, which is like a police ambush. nana you know, and that was that was the end of that. i went to the end of that. and i went to the old bailey there, you know , and old bailey there, you know, and that was the start of it. >> what were you thinking >> well, what were you thinking then as were sentencing >> well, what were you thinking then as obviously,3ntencing >> well, what were you thinking then as obviously, what's1g you? and obviously, what's it like head being like in your head to being caught something that, you caught doing something that, you know, shouldn't be doing? know, you shouldn't be doing? and the thoughts that go and then the thoughts that go through mind when you're through your mind when you're then was nana when >> the truth was nana when i look back at the person i had become then i was something i was never meant to be, you know? you know. and that darkness had

really come in, you know, i had ran with that. but you know, there's a lot of trauma, a lot of different stuff in there. so, you know, you're in a good you know, you're not in a good place. obviously but when i stood bailey that time, stood in the bailey that time, it was really strange. it's like serendipity in a way. i kind serendipity in a bad way. i kind of knew that i was always going to that, course, is to get that, which of course, is bizarre. right >> yeah. so you went down. you went years. did you went down for 17 years. did you serve all of that 17 or serve all of that 17 years or did let out early? did they let you out early? >> i've done 11 years and nine months a category is months as a category a, which is quite it's quite rare quite rare. it's quite rare because you're to come because you're meant to come down, c , d, down, say from a, b, c, d, being, being, being open prison. so i didn't get any of that. and then you from there on, did you go back into prison or was it at that point that you turned your life around and started doing things ? i things to help others? i actually what happened is i actually what happened is i actually you know, i come out i was institutional ized. you know, i was still carrying a lot of trauma and, you know, i went back to the street as it were, in the east end. and, you know, i still wasn't in a good place ,

i still wasn't in a good place, you know, of all the stuff i'd been that sentence. been through in that sentence. if you think of years, really if you think of 12 years, really even coping with normal society, i just wasn't there. nana right. you know , there was a lot of you know, there was a lot of stuff going on. i was arrested again with firearm which which again with a firearm which which i for protection because i had for protection because cause of all the stuff that was going on. so was pulled back going on. so i was pulled back into i went to prison, into it. so i went to prison, you know, for five years for that, for possession. i had done half of that. but when i come out that, you know, i'd out after that, you know, i'd seen through life seen through that life for a long time and i'd want it out. >> what was it that specific made you? so you did this second prison term, served half of prison term, you served half of it, there must have been it, but there must have been a moment then you thought, moment then that you thought, all done all right, that's it, i'm done with this. what was there anything put anything specific you could put your anything specific you could put youthere anything specific you could put you there were anything specific you could put youthere were many moments, >> there were many moments, you know, right? know, through that, right? you know, when i knew, you know, when wrong and you see when it was wrong and you see through you see through through that, you see through that for me , that. and, um. but for me, internally, i, you know, i got to the point. i couldn't hurt people no more. i, you know, i couldn't hurt the people i loved , else for , you know, or anyone else for that you just that matter. you know, i just

couldn't way , you know, couldn't be the way, you know, that i was, the way i felt , you that i was, the way i felt, you know, about myself, know, or know, about myself, you know, or even looking on me . even people looking down on me. like, you know, when i knew i was worth much more, right? so to be honest with you. >> first start >> so what was the first start of of turning things of you sort of turning things around? the first thing around? what was the first thing that around? what was the first thing tha well , i remember a kind and >> well, i remember a kind and you know , at the start of this you know, at the start of this and i never forget him, he said to me, steven, you only need to change one thing. i said, what's that? everything but that? he said, everything but was so true, right? yeah. you know i the intellectual know, i had the intellectual understanding of that, of course. know, penny course. but, you know, the penny dropping know, as dropping, you know, for us as human beings a different dropping, you know, for us as h|different ngs a different dropping, you know, for us as h|different ngs so a different dropping, you know, for us as h|different ngs so i'veiifferent dropping, you know, for us as h|different ngs so i've done nt a different thing. so i've done a different thing. so i've done a lot of voluntary work . you a lot of voluntary work. you know, i helped a lot of the homeless. used the homeless. i used to wash the floors, beds , you know, floors, make the beds, you know, do tea. i love that. had do the tea. i love that. i had to humanity i went to get my humanity back. i went to get my humanity back. i went to university. you know, i passed with honours. i got a business degree . i was kind of i business degree. i was kind of i was kind of lucky in a way, because my family had a you know, building at know, had a building business at the . but, you know, the time. but, you know, i didn't get favours . i mean, didn't get any favours. i mean, i worse, right? you know,

i got it worse, right? you know, i got it worse, right? you know, i so i started at the i you know, so i started at the bottom know, know, bottom, you know, i, you know, i had my way by, you know, had to work my way by, you know, all the way through. but within 18 had you know, 18 months, i had you know, worked my all the way worked my way all the way through started my own through that. and started my own my first business. that's my own first business. so that's the that's middle bit. the that's the middle bit. >> your first >> and what was your first business in? >> um, my family used to do groundwork, so it was building roads basically really, really hard stuff and all. weathers you know, that's where we started . know, that's where we started. but my first company was a refurbishment refurb business. i wanted to go inside . wanted to go inside. >> so yeah, don't blame you. i'd be wanting to work in doors as well . i be wanting to work in doors as well. i mean, i'm not doing any more roads. roads where we're going. don't any roads. more roads. roads where we're going.the don't any roads. more roads. roads where we're going. the film. any roads. name the film. >> no roads where we're going. >> no roads where we're going. >> we don't need roads. >> we don't need roads. >> you need what? >> you need what? >> what film is that ? >> what film is that? >> what film is that? >> i don't know which delorean . >> i don't know which delorean. >> i don't know which delorean. >> back to the future. when takes off. back to the future. i love that film. i love all that. it's such old one. it's such it's such an old one. it's such a though. they a good one, though. they don't make anymore. so a good one, though. they don't makyyou're anymore. so a good one, though. they don't makyyou're reformed anymore. so a good one, though. they don't makyyou're reformed .|nymore. so a good one, though. they don't makyyou're reformed . you'vee. so now you're reformed. you've turned you've turned your life around. you've got . are you a

got businesses. are you a millionaire? rich ? millionaire? are you a rich? >> i have to work very >> i still have to work very hard. and you know, like you are to maintain what we what we have . i'm a very grateful person. i'm a very boots on the ground person. life is life is really given me a real depth. so, you know, i, i keep at it, you know, and i'm just just very privileged for, for, for everything that comes. i embrace it all. yeah. >> and your mission again, is it to help others as well, to sway them away from the past because i you talk about that a i know you you talk about that a lot . lot. >> it's definitely there. mean >> it's definitely there. i mean , i do you know, i do tours, pubuc , i do you know, i do tours, public speaking tours. you know , public speaking tours. you know, i've do a lot of work now. i won't mention who it is, but it's a major a major broadcaster. so you know, i do tv series's. i'm you know, you can tell us. well, it's all a lot of work with sky, right ? lot of work with sky, right? >> you know, perhaps not then, but yeah. yeah. >> you know, perhaps not then, but no, h. yeah. >> you know, perhaps not then, but no, h. yeéyou know, it is >> no, well, you know, it is what is. yeah. what it is. yeah. >> great. that's >> that's great. that's great. you the you know, i mean, i'm in the middle know, middle of a of, you know, i've just some work with ross just done some work with ross kemp, you know, amazing guy .

kemp, you know, an amazing guy. >> professional. >> really, really professional. he's translating dark he's translating the dark corners , as it were. right. as corners, as it were. right. as we do as well. just we do as well. so i've just signed a two book deal as well. my next book, which was the first book, is actually called extraordinary. stephen killing the search for a life worth living . you know, when you said living. you know, when you said extraordinary earlier . but living. you know, when you said extraordinary earlier. but this is out early next year at is coming out early next year at the the year. you know, the start of the year. you know, there's behind there's a there's a film behind that. you know, stuff like that. and you know, stuff like that. and you know, stuff like that. so it's amazing. i'm very i'm very grateful for all this stuff. >> and finally, i always wonder whether your reality has sort of exceeded your dreams . so right exceeded your dreams. so right now, it hasn't exceeded what you thought you would be. >> oh, absolutely. i mean, you know , if you go back to the dark know, if you go back to the dark days and you just said, hey, right. know, in right. you know, in you know, in 20 years or whatever you're going to have, i would have said, know, taking said, well, you know, you taking . right. what saying ? but, . right. what i'm saying? but, you know, it is about the work, you know, it is about the work, you know, it is about the work, you know, and one of the things that my that i really love about my journey it really shows journey is that it really shows that look , you know, we can turn

that look, you know, we can turn things around and this is about choices. ownership choices. it is about ownership of what doing. and this is of what we're doing. and this is about right about getting the right people around really around you. it is about really working at you know, to be working at it, you know, to be more, you know , you know, then more, you know, you know, then you can help other people be more. and if we all do that, you know, wonderful, know, we have a wonderful, wonderful environment everyone. >> so then briefly, a pearl of wisdom that you would pass on to those to somebody else listening. now um, i always say just to always do the next right thing. >> i mean, there's one thing that, you know, i've got something wonderful coming up which is flow coin, which is , which is flow coin, which is, you know, it's a decentralised currency, but, you know, apart from that, i'm the brand ambassador for this charity and they're putting a lot of a lot of money into this on their way to be to be regulated. but what this means for the inner cities you know for boxing, boxing clubs, for women's shelters, for all these wonderful charities that don't have money, is we're going to be able to do a lot of work with them. i'm super work with them. so i'm super

excited about that, i have to say. >> so $- $ is a charitable >> so this is a charitable thing. if people want to find out there out more about that, is there somewhere find somewhere they can go to find out well, coin. >> well, it's flow coin. >> well, it's flow coin. >> know, there's >> and look, you know, there's going to be lot out about going to be a lot out about this. yeah, yeah. this. yeah, yeah, yeah. in january. you this. yeah, yeah, yeah. in januari. you this. yeah, yeah, yeah. in januari want you this. yeah, yeah, yeah. in januari want to you this. yeah, yeah, yeah. in januari want to focus you this. yeah, yeah, yeah. in januari want to focus on you this. yeah, yeah, yeah. in januari want to focus on the know, i want to focus on the good but good stuff here. okay but. but this, is to empower people, this, this is to empower people, and need that. right? we need and we need that. right? we need to this is the thing that we to do this is the thing that we need to , to help us change as need to, to help us change as well. so >> well, steven, thank you so much for joining it's much forjoining me. it's a pleasure you. pleasure to meet you. >> pleasure to meet you, >> it's a pleasure to meet you, too. really is. thank you . too. it really is. thank you. >> that, course, the >> that, of course, is the inspirational stephen gillen. he's turned ceo and he's a gangster turned ceo and a very successful man to interesting. we will look forward i'll be looking out forward to. i'll be looking out forward to. i'll be looking out for this flow thing. for this flow coin thing. it sounds or just sounds great. or if you just join it's minutes after join me, it's 22 minutes after 5:00. up, i'll be joined 5:00. coming up, i'll be joined by lots of other people . we'll by lots of other people. we'll be doing british debate be doing great. british debate this be discussing this hour. we'll be discussing whether online appointment booking systems are fit for purpose. you'll probably know whether you've called up your gp and all you've struggled find and all you've struggled to find out how to get in touch and get your appointment. me .

with me, michael portillo, gb news, britain's news channel . will. >> good afternoon. this is gb news 26. after 5:00. it's time now for the great british debate. this hour. if now for the great british debate. this hour . if you've debate. this hour. if you've just joined me, i'm nana akua and i'm asking is the online gp appointment booking system fit for purpose ? now the for purpose? now the effectiveness of the online gp appointment system is

appointment booking system is under as health under scrutiny as health officials accusations of officials face accusations of neglecting the obligation for patients to have multiple ways to schedule appointments, including by phone or face to face. now research from the campaign group silver voices revealed one 1 in 6 revealed that one 1 in 6 practices flagrantly breached the terms of the gp contract, requiring all bookings to be made exclusively online. now, this situation leaves vulnerable individuals, particularly those without tech or internet access, excluded from healthcare access. but despite nhs england explicitly stating that patients have the right to book appointments over the phone, health officials seem quite unresponsive to the feedback. but as gp appointment waiting times soar and as we enter the winter months, this issue could get much worse. so for the great british debate this hour, i'm asking is the online gp appointment system fit for purpose? well, joining me now, dr. laurence gerlis, a gp in central london, peter spencer, political commentator , lewis political commentator, lewis perry, commentator and perry, social commentator and cop26 director. and dr. anita

rajah, who is a gp. well, i'm going to start with you, anita. if you wouldn't. so i'm presuming you're a gp. what are your thoughts on this ? a lot of your thoughts on this? a lot of older people in particular are complaining about this online booking systems . booking systems. >> i mean, you're absolutely right. it's a complete faff for older people to you know, go onune older people to you know, go online and book an appointment when they are not tech savvy. and it's so ever, so difficult for them to go online and do that because they don't know how to google, the internet . to use google, the internet. they an they probably don't have an account. don't account. and some of them don't even have smartphones. so certainly i think that if we are talking the elderly talking about the elderly population, then an population, then it is an inconven audience most inconven audience and most practices still have the you know, they still have the ability to book an appointments via the telephone. but then again, you need to ask the government. they've spent £240 million on cloud telephone , a million on cloud telephone, a system which they think is going to tackle the health care problem, the crisis. the gp appointment crisis, and certainly mean there's splurging money right left centre into the

wrong areas. we need to i mean we certainly need to address this and yes , you're right. i this and yes, you're right. i mean, it's a big problem and we see this all the time. >> dr. laurence gerlis yeah, what you my view on this, i think it's wrong to insist that all appointments have to be made online. >> i'm a great fan of technology , and i think technology is a great advance . you have to great advance. you have to remember that this system replaces the old atm queuing where people had to phone up at 8 am. getting a telephone queue, and by the time they got through at 845, all the appointments had gone. so this is an improved on that system where and up until recently that was the only way you could get an appointment with a gp. i think you have to be flexible. i've heard stories quite hilarious stories of patients going into a surgery trying to bookin going into a surgery trying to book in front of the receptionist and receptionist saying, no, i can't book an appointment. you have to stand there and email me from your phone , which is clearly phone, which is clearly a nonsense. and you've got to be

flexible and you've got to be patient, friendly . we i'm in the patient, friendly. we i'm in the private sector, so it's different for us. we answer phone calls within 2 or 3 rings andifs phone calls within 2 or 3 rings and it's amazing how many patients not just the elderly, but young people say , isn't it but young people say, isn't it nice to talk to a human being because people sometimes the simple question they want to ask about your availability about their situation, they don't need to go online and book an appointment or even send an enquiry which may not be answered until later that day answered until later in that day . so ideally should do both . . so ideally you should do both. i understand the pressures in the , but most of our the nhs, but most of our patients to speak to patients prefer to speak to a human being most of the time i'm. >> well, it's totally peter spencer well, i mean i think behind all this there is a reality that 1 in 10 gp practices have closed down in the last ten years. >> millions of people who actually do manage to do the 8:00 nonsense. they then got to wait a fortnight for their appointment anyway. so i would

suggest that anything that speeds up the process is got to be a help . i'd also add actually be a help. i'd also add actually that during the pandemic a great many older people got a lot more tech savvy because they had to anyway . they were going to get anyway. they were going to get anyway. they were going to get any face time with their rellies was to actually see was was was to figure out how to work a computer and look down a screen. so i think that on balance this is more helpful than unhelpful . is more helpful than unhelpful. of course stuff can go wrong and i entirely take the last speaker's point about the private sector is under so much less pressure , but so be it. the less pressure, but so be it. the nhs is up against it and i have to say that health care a little bit like politics, is the art of the possible. >> yeah, but it's such a pain, isn't it? like it's too complex. all the things that you have to do to and that do to try and get that appointment. perry all appointment. lois perry all right, well , appointment. lois perry all right, well, i would argue appointment. lois perry all right, well , i would argue that right, well, i would argue that it's the nhs that's not fit for purpose. >> i mean, there's lots and lots

of of making the work of ways of making the work better, breaking it down into component parts without privatising it. >> in israel, privatising it. >> in israel , for example, they >> in israel, for example, they have four competing state funded health providers and israel has got one of the best health care systems in the world. >> so, you know , but the thing >> so, you know, but the thing that i would also say it's all very what the doctor before very well what the doctor before me , you know, me said, how, however, you know, my nan is extremely tech savvy. you know, she orders stuff online, she can facetime. but if especially if she was ill, she would struggle to use the she's 87 and she would struggle to use the online booking service. and she's very fortunate because where she is, you ring, they answer and it's nhs and they actually came out to see her recently when she was very unwell. so you know, and the other thing as well with regards to video consult , other thing as well with regards to video consult, you other thing as well with regards to video consult , you know, to video consult, you know, where you actually see the doctor , i've spoken to a very doctor, i've spoken to a very good friend of mine who's a gp and don't know if the other and i don't know if the other doctors with me, doctors on this agree with me, but who've doctors on this agree with me, but early who've doctors on this agree with me, but early cancer who've doctors on this agree with me, but early cancer havey've doctors on this agree with me, but early cancer have a e got early stage cancer have a

particular smile . well, i know particular smile. well, i know it sounds terrible, but that's what he said. and he said that he would not be able to do that on a video diagnosis , you know. on a video diagnosis, you know. so i just thought that there are lots of there are lots of strengths, you know, sort of things that don't work online. >> fine. but i just want to quickly then come to you all first. i'll come to lawrence. so is the gp online booking service fit for purpose in your eyes, yes or no ? yes or no? >> no, not of its exclusive. so the answer is no. you have to have a range, a choice of systems to access the gp. >> peter spencer. peter spencer. same to you, i'd say yes it is, although i do take that last point. >> of course the nhs say you're supposed to have a choice and you jolly well should. >> lois perry yes or no? yeah >> lois perry yes or no? yeah >> no, no, not at all. >>— >> no, no, not at all. >> and anita raja. dr. anita raja i would say that it depends who we're talking about. >> if it's for the elderly patients who are not tech savvy, then definitely no. but for the young ones who can't use the

internet, it definitely is . internet, it definitely is. >> well, thank very much for >> well, thank you very much for your lois peter your thoughts. lois perry, peter spencen your thoughts. lois perry, peter spencer, lois gerlis and dr. spencer, dr. lois gerlis and dr. anita raja. i just think the whole online thing, it's just such a pain in the backside. i can't i can't bear it. having to book like that. it feels like you have to sort time you have to take sort of time out concentrate but out to concentrate to do it. but you're akua you're with me. i'm nana akua this news will continue on this is gb news will continue on the way. great british the way. our great british debate this hour i'm asking is the online appointment booking system you'll system fit for purpose? you'll hear the thoughts panel, hear the thoughts of my panel, broadcaster danny broadcaster and journalist danny kelly, also author and broadcaster christine hamilton. but your latest but first, let's get your latest news sophia . thank you , nana. >> it's 533. i'm sophia wenzler in the newsroom . gb news in the newsroom. gb news understands. tomorrow tory mps will give their verdict on whether the rwanda bill is workable . conservative mp sir workable. conservative mp sir bill cash will present the findings ahead of the crunch second vote on tuesday . the second vote on tuesday. the prime minister has come under pressure after it was discovered he paid £240 million towards the

rwanda plan without a single flight taking off tory sources say the mps will decide whether to support the legislation tomorrow or if necessary, hold a second meeting ahead of the vote that evening . met police say two that evening. met police say two teenage girls have been arrested on suspicion of robbery after a woman was attacked in london. a warning this video shows distressing images. footage of the attack has been circulating on social media showing the 20 year old walking in stamford hill and then being robbed and beaten on. the woman who is from the orthodox jewish community was reportedly left bruised but did not need to go to hospital . did not need to go to hospital. met. police say it's keeping an open mind about the motive for the attack, but are treating it as a possible hate crime . as a possible hate crime. baroness michelle mone says she made an error in publicly denying her links to the ppe firm medpro . it was awarded firm medpro. it was awarded government contracts worth more than £200 million to supply personal protective equipment

after she recommended it to ministers. the national crime agency is investigating the firm and its connection to the conservative peer. lady mone argues she is being used as a scapegoat by the government for its own covid failings . its own covid failings. mcdonnell has apologised after footage posted on social media showed a security guard mopping the floor where a homeless man was sitting. the video was taken on victoria street in london last night and shows the man trying to move his sleeping bag and duvet away from the water as it seeped underneath. in the video he says, leave me alone before one security guard kicks a blanket out of the way and splashes more water along the pavement . macdonald said it was pavement. macdonald said it was shocked and saddened by the footage . and you can get more on footage. and you can get more on all those stories by visiting our website at gbnews.com. now it's back to . nana it's back to. nana >> thank you, sophia. coming up,

could we see a return from former prime minister boris johnson ? some conservative mps johnson? some conservative mps are reportedly contemplating an extraordinary plan to bring back bofis extraordinary plan to bring back boris and alongside nigel farage with boris johnson and boris and alongside nigel farage with borisjohnson and nigel with boris johnson and nigel farage be the dream ticket . but farage be the dream ticket. but next, we'll continue with the great british debate this hour. and asking is the online gp and i'm asking is the online gp appointment fit appointment booking system fit for me let me know for purpose? let me let me know your thoughts. vaiews@gbnews.uk. com .

this evening. gb news the

people's . channel people's. channel >> good afternoon. it's 40 minutes after 5:00. if you just tuned in, you've come in at the end of show. one? don't end of the show. what one? don't worry , though. we've worry, though. we've got 20 minutes nana akua . we minutes to go. i'm nana akua. we are online and on are live on tv online and on digital radio. this is gb news. i don't forget. make sure you download the i'm a celebrity app and your five free votes and cast your five free votes for nigel. let us make him king of the jungle. they will hate that, won't they? just hate it. they didn't want him to do it so come we'll qr code come on, we'll put the qr code on the screen there. it's right there. you to do is there. all you need to do is just photograph of that just take a photograph of that and then you can click on it and go imacelebrity go straight to the imacelebrity app. ifs go straight to the imacelebrity app. it's now for app. right. it's time now for the this the great british debate this houn the great british debate this hour. i'm asking hour. and i'm asking is the onune hour. and i'm asking is the online gp appointment booking system for purpose ? the system fit for purpose? the effectiveness of the system is under scrutiny as health officials face accusations of neglecting their obligation for patients to have multiple ways to make appointments. it's research from the campaign group

silver voices revealed that 1 in 6 practices flagrantly breached the terms of the gp contract, requiring bookings to be made exclusively online. and of course , leaving vulnerable course, leaving vulnerable people without access to health care. so what's it like for you? because we know that waiting times are soaring. we know there's an issue with a lot of there's an issue with a lot of the gp surgeries. people can't there's an issue with a lot of the appointments. ’eople can't there's an issue with a lot of the appointments. what can't there's an issue with a lot of the appointments. what are1't there's an issue with a lot of the appointments. what are your get appointments. what are your thoughts? great thoughts? so for the great british hour, i'm british debate, this hour, i'm asking is the online gp appointment booking system fit for purpose? well, let's see what panel mega that i'm what my panel mega that i'm joined and joined by broadcaster and journalist danny kelly and also broadcast christine broadcast on author christine hamilton . broadcast on author christine hamilton. danny broadcast on author christine hamilton . danny kelly, i'm broadcast on author christine hamilton. danny kelly, i'm going to you're a fit man. >> you never need to go to the gp. fit or fat? gp. did you say fit or fat? normally i normally i said it in between. >> you said fit is a fat man. >> you said fit is a fat man. >> well, i think look, i think if so many people over a certain age are finding it difficult to get a face to face appointment and if it's online only if you have go through this triage have to go through this triage system you system almost before you actually triaged , actually get medically triaged, then it can't be fit for purpose.

>> there'll who aren't >> there'll be people who aren't comfortable with technology. we need to we need to accept and understand that there'll be people younger people who are who are younger than way, it worries me than. by the way, it worries me that silver surfers is what they call surfers . they that silver surfers is what they call after surfers . they that silver surfers is what they call after people urfers . they that silver surfers is what they call after people who s . they that silver surfers is what they call after people who are 'hey that silver surfers is what they call after people who are over look after people who are over 60. god, rapidly 60. oh my god, we're rapidly approaching 60 and i'm part of a silver surfer lucky type of guy who usually described because of the colour of their hair. >> think you're safe. >> so i think you're safe. >> so i think you're safe. >> i see. i think fat bald >> oh, i see. i think fat bald man well as so it can't be man as well as so it can't be fit for purpose. >> i have look, i'm not going to go through my medical conditions live on air. oh, do i've got a pimple on my with you. >> everything ? yes. >> everything? yes. >> everything? yes. >> i've got a nasal condition. >> i've got a nasal condition. >> no, we're only joking. we'll go on. >> i've got a nasal condition and i think it's the cats at home cause it . and i. home that cause it. and i. >> your nose is allergic to cats. >> e- e—n %—- cats. >>your nose it going this cats. >>your nose ? going this cats. >>your nose ? ali ng this cats. >>your nose ? ali kadi. this in your nose? ali kadi. >> i have constantly a blocked nose to cats. yeah. nose allergic to cats. yeah. it's like a sinusitis type thing. >> he gets runny eyes. he has to leave the room or the cat has to go. >> i can message my doctor. you

can't get through to your doctor nowadays you can't. you nowadays. no, you can't. you can't him. you have to can't speak to him. you have to go or go through reception or secretaries can secretaries or whatever. i can message through nhs app. my message through the nhs app. my doctor. so last week doctor. i did so last week saying, thanks the saying, doctor, thanks for the prescription . still clogged nose prescription. still clogged nose or whatever . next another or whatever. next day, another prescription and then i go to boots and pick it up. so for me, that aspect of modern technology and gp appointment works fabulously . but if older people fabulously. but if older people forget the old thing, but if people can't get through, then it's fit for purpose . it's not fit for purpose. >> the trouble can't >> the trouble is, you can't forget the old thing because who goes to the doctor most regularly? older people older and you as i know and the older you get. as i know as i'm not approaching 60 way past the older you get , the more past the older you get, the more problems you and it's i problems you have. and it's i think insult for think it's a gross insult for any practice to think that everybody has access to technology and can use it . everybody has access to technology and can use it. i'm very our surgery is very lucky. our surgery is they're very good, they're well organised and they've got practice managers, they've got farmers there. everything is we're lucky. you do we're very, very lucky. you do still have to go through hate this word triage, but you

obviously you have to say why you want to see the doctor. i mean, my father was a gp and the number of time wasters who would come because such come in because he was such a darling they would darling man, they would just come chat to come in and have a chat to the doctor them ten doctor and it took them ten minutes so minutes to get what were so obviously you to that, obviously you have to do that, but any practice is but any practice that is breaking gp contract breaking their gp contract should be pulled up and made to give people all the various opfions give people all the various options for booking an appointment. >> it's almost like when you go to those websites where they never tell you the number, never tell you the phone number, so and look. so you have to go and look. look. how feels look. that's how it feels when you're doing that, because i actually an online actually tried to do an online sort appointment, which ended sort of appointment, which ended up a face to face, but up being not a face to face, but like know, like like a sort of, you know, like a consultation, but online. but i had to book it and i went online and i couldn't out what and i couldn't work out what they meant because the way the navigation was actually quite awkward. so i was like, well , do awkward. so i was like, well, do i press that one or that one? and i did that one. and it went back there and i spent about two hours and this is no joke, back there and i spent about two hours tod this is no joke, back there and i spent about two hours to work is no joke, back there and i spent about two hours to work out,o joke, back there and i spent about two hours to work out, navigate the trying to work out, navigate the site eventually site itself and eventually i called up and they said, called them up and they said, oh, have you got your online? called them up and they said, oh, h i ve you got your online? called them up and they said, oh, the you go your online?

called them up and they said, oh, the you go and' online? called them up and they said, oh, the you go and theyne? called them up and they said, oh, the you go and they guided then i had to go and they guided me thing me through the thing and i thought, god, you know, if thought, oh my god, you know, if i infirm , i was older and more infirm, exactly why quite old. but exactly why i'm quite old. but if i older you know, if i was older and, you know, it's harder and they you a it's harder and they ask you a question, know , is the question, you know, is the answer no? answer yes or 110? >> answer yes or no? >> think, well, actually >> and you think, well, actually it's neither nor it's it's neither yes nor no. it's in between. talk between. i need to talk to somebody. box where somebody. i need a box where i can explain. i mean, of course we've got to move with the times and i mean the nhs app is absolutely brilliant. you just go on there and click the go on there and you click the things prescribed. things you want re prescribed. and get them or and as the older you get them or there are and it happens and it's should do, it's what hospitals should do, hospitals to what is the hospitals need to what is the word not mechanise modernised, modern, well modernised. but it's for internet eyes. it's a word for internet eyes. whatever is . and more and whatever it is. and more and more surgeries. but dies. i mean a well managed a well a well managed surgery that uses their budget carefully and sensibly. there is no should be no problem , apart from the fact that there are population is increasing so massively that every surgery has more people to cope with. >> it's a bit like a covid hangover where they really hangover where they don't really

want see you. so want to sort of see you. so they've of got hooked on they've sort of got hooked on this face face but this not face to face thing, but well, see what our viewers well, let's see what our viewers at home think of that, because, of course, this show is nothing without and view. so without you and your view. so let's our great british without you and your view. so let's their our great british without you and your view. so let's their opportunity british without you and your view. so let's their opportunity bri be| without you and your view. so let the their opportunity bri be| without you and your view. so let the show opportunity bri be| without you and your view. so let the show and ortunity bri be| without you and your view. so let the show and tell1ity bri be| without you and your view. so letthe show and tell us bribe| on the show and tell us what they topics they think about the topics we're today they think about the topics we'rgot today they think about the topics we'rgot . today they think about the topics we'rgot . four today they think about the topics we'rgot . four three today they think about the topics we'rgot . four three of today they think about the topics we'rgot . four three of you,)day i've got. four three of you, david powell. we'll start with you, david. >> and then and so i've got to things i can talk about first is our surgery is brilliant . our surgery is brilliant. >> you can use online if you want, but you can't. >> you have to go through a triage. >> no problem. last year after the marathon, this year, i hurt my back and i was advised to go to the musculoskeletal clinic and i had to fill an online consultation . and on that online consultation. and on that online consultation. and on that online consultation you have to mark where you hurt. >> but he couldn't mark where it hurt. >> and so then i got a phone call that didn't actually understand what the problem was until i explained she couldn't mark on the thing where the pain was because it was four was because it was in four different places . different places. >> oh, we better get you to come

in. >> they could have avoided all that by fricking phone call. >> it's true, isn't it? it's so. >>— >> it's true, isn't it? it's so. >> it's true, isn't it? it's so. >> it works occasionally . >> it works occasionally. >> it works occasionally. >> it works occasionally. >> it like everything . >> it like everything. >> it like everything. >> good signs and bad signs. >> good signs and bad signs. >> i'm very lucky with our surgery. they're great. >> and i am one of the old people. >> i am a silver surfer. and trust me , i have trouble. trust me, i have trouble. >> so no problem . >> so no problem. >> so no problem. >> well, silver surfer >> well, your silver surfer without silver hair, so that's not a bad. it's got a silver beard, all. adrian gel . beard, that's all. adrian gel. >> yeah , i'm actually quite >> yeah, i'm actually quite impressed that christine can get onune impressed that christine can get online and even tick some boxes . online and even tick some boxes. um the cheek of it . um the cheek of it. >> adrian , at the doctor's >> adrian, at the doctor's surgery here, i've got a telephone , and i've held in a telephone, and i've held in a queue and. >> and if i'm lucky, i might get to see the doctor within, within two weeks as for going online and getting an appointment, don't even think we have that system in our surgery here.

well, i've thought of it so i do rather like as i mentioned last week, the bloated, civil service. i think that the nhs has got is bloated with with management . and far too many management. and far too many layers . layers. >> listen. >> listen. >> well, listen. that's a discussion for another day. but i think most people would agree with you philip hoy hi with you there. philip hoy hi nana well, we do have the system where you can do online booking, but but unfortunately, what i found with it is that it's best for younger people who have got not particularly medical emergency or something like that i >> -- >> they 5mm >> they may want injections because you will always have a long time to wait. >> you can never get a quick appointment , >> you can never get a quick appointment, number one, and quite often if you do get an appointment, then it's quickly cancelled because somebody is not going to be there. what i do is i not going to be there. what i do isi phone not going to be there. what i do is i phone up, i use the 8:00 the morning appointment. >> i fight with everybody else

to on. and, you know, you to get on. and, you know, you phone at five seconds to eight andifs phone at five seconds to eight and it's not online. then you phone again at one second past eight and you suddenly eight in the queue, which i've never understood, but you go. understood, but there you go. well, um, i have well, that's, um, that's, i have to what do do to admit that, um, what we do do is we, we phone up. you have a, i'm going to say a triage system where you can phone up in the afternoon at and say, i wish to speak to a doctor. and at some point a doctor will phone you back. well, the thing is, having described so but it's random. described so but it's so random. >> it ? the whole thing described so but it's so random. >> it? the whole thing is so >> is it? the whole thing is so random. works, another random. one works, another one doesn't. enough. doesn't. it's not good enough. david watford, you doesn't. it's not good enough. daviymuch. watford, you doesn't. it's not good enough. daviymuch. philiptford, you doesn't. it's not good enough. daviymuch. philip hoy, you very much. philip hoy in hertfordshire and adrian gell, thank that's thank you so much. well, that's our thoughts. i'm going to thank anne so much anne mulhern. thank you so much for bringing that story to my attention. went attention. by the way, she went on and on my little facebook group and told , and i told me all about it, and i think we needed to talk about it. thank you so for it. so thank you so much for that. you send me that. i love it when you send me something about something and we talk about it. so this that so right. well, this story that caught amidst caught my eye today amidst concerns tory concerns over declining tory support and party rise , support and reform party rise, some conservative mps are reportedly an

reportedly contemplating an extraordinary plan bring back extraordinary plan to bring back bofis extraordinary plan to bring back boris johnson as prime minister in leadership tie up with boris johnson as prime minister in lyfarage. p tie up with boris johnson as prime minister in lyfarage. ofie up with boris johnson as prime minister in lyfarage. of course'ith boris johnson as prime minister in lyfarage. of course ,:h boris johnson as prime minister in lyfarage. of course , nigel nigel farage. of course, nigel hopefully crowning be crowned king of the jungle. of course, rishi sunak faces loads of challenges over rwanda and everything else. pretty much. so what do you think? could you see the return to power for our former minister, former prime minister, boris johnson with farage johnson, with nigel farage in tow is the dream ticket. i'm going to ask you , first of all, going to ask you, first of all, christine, . well, the christine, briefly. well, the two enormous egos aren't they, nigel and boris and i. >> i can't remember the question, but no, the answer's no. i cannot see those two working together. no i think nigel has the upper hand politically now. >> i think boris johnson is damaged goods. >> boris has been. >> boris has been. >> yeah. and that that >> yeah. and i think that that would be counterproductive . i would be counterproductive. i think if the tories can get farage on board, i think that's a but think a good thing. but i think johnson's by johnson's damaged goods. and by the toe the way, you can tip toe yourself around technology of course can. course you can. >> course you can. >> right. listen, now, course you can. >>course1ht. listen, now, course you can. >>course1hcan. listen, now, of course i can. >> you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> it's now time for >> right. but it's now time for supplements this is supplements sunday. the this is a where talk a part of the show where we talk about have about the stories that have caught we'll caught our eye. well, we'll start with christine hamilton.

now, yours about 21 million now, yours is about 21 million suffering injuries, preparing for christmas. so this is a piece that's elf and safety. 21 million suffer injuries preparing for christmas. yeah well, this i mean this i find quite extraordinary. >> as you said, 21 million people. that's i can't work it out. i'm never quite sure what the population is. we've only got anyway . well, got about 30s anyway. well, anyway, 21 million. that's a huge percentage of the population themselves , population injure themselves, either putting up the tree or the so the decorations or whatever. so be out there, okay? be careful out there, okay? >> do you have one for us? >> do you have one for us? >> what have you got? yes i have woke madness as scottish woke police madness as scottish cops wall of honour cops get rid of wall of honour because has many men on because it has too many men on it. in a police it. basically in a police headquarters, a wall of headquarters, there's a wall of honour with all the police chiefs. the portraits , the chiefs. the portraits, the photographs. it's been. it's been removed because they're all white . and there's no white men. and there's no diversity . but this is an diversity. but this is an historic fact that the police chiefs have all been white blokes and they've been told to strip them off the wall because

there's no diversity. someone thrown the misogyny card at him , thrown the misogyny card at him, sir, the white blokes off the wall. >> that's absurd. >> that's absurd. >> strip them off the wall. >> strip them off the wall. >> the paintings, the photographs, portraits. well, listen. >> well, listen . well. all i >> well, listen. well. all i want to say for my supplement is don't forget to download the i'm a celebrity and vote for a celebrity app and vote for nigel farage, because i'd love to see the faces of ant and dec if he should win of the if he should win king of the jungle. you think? if he should win king of the jun i.e. you think? if he should win king of the jun i.e. they you think? if he should win king of the jun i.e. they arej think? if he should win king of the jun i.e. they are already >> i think they are already goodness knows what the expression is, but they will be honoured , amazed, astonished and honoured, amazed, astonished and horrified that he's got as far as he's got . as he's got. >> no, i can't wait for the lorraine interview because itv contractually have to interview all of the all of the evictees. icannot all of the all of the evictees. i cannot wait farage are you going to tear a strip off her? >> well, she should. >> well, she should. >> no, he won't. he won't. he'll be. will. >> no, he won't. he won't. he'll be. but will. >> no, he won't. he won't. he'll be. but he'llill. >> no, he won't. he won't. he'll be. but he'll bring up the fat, >> but he'll bring up the fat, not the fat. shame that's me. he'll up shaming . he'll bring up the age shaming. yeah, wasn't it. yeah, that wasn't it. >> won't a strip >> but he won't tear a strip off her. that. well, her. no, not with that. well, he's not like that. >> polite, you >> he's very polite, as you know, as you can see on the jungle. make sure watch jungle. make sure you watch him tonight because you need to vote for needs to win. it'll

for him. he needs to win. it'll be hilarious to a on be hilarious to see a look on their today's their faces. but on today's show, the show, we've been asking, is the rwanda ? rwanda scheme a gimmick? according to our twitter poll, 83.9% of say yes , i'm with 83.9% of you say yes, i'm with you because they've not done anything with it . no, it's 16.1% anything with it. no, it's16.1% put 4.9 and 0.1, the 0.1 of you say, no, it isn't . well, i'm say, no, it isn't. well, i'm going to say a huge thank you to my panel. christine hamilton, author and broadcaster. thank my panel. christine hamilton, autiso and broadcaster. thank my panel. christine hamilton, autiso much,oadcaster. thank my panel. christine hamilton, autiso much, christine. thank you so much, christine. pleasure. that's danny pleasure. that that's danny actually . yes. and also thank actually. yes. and also thank you to you, danny kelly as well . you to you, danny kelly as well. and of course, thank you to you at home for your company. i'll leave you with the weather. see you on saturday at three. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsor shares up. boxt boilers sponsor shares of weather on gb news as. >> hello . >> hello. >> hello. >> welcome to your latest gb news weather. i'm ellie glaisyer unset. news weather. i'm ellie glaisyer unset . cold weather continues as unset. cold weather continues as low pressure remains very much in charge of our weather over the next couple of days . storm the next couple of days. storm fergus situated out to the west, slowly moves its way towards us

through sunday evening and into the start bringing the start of monday, bringing with very heavy with it some very heavy rainfall, particularly to northern parts of england where the already the ground is already very saturated. see some saturated. so we could see some localised flooding through the early monday morning. localised flooding through the early strong monday morning. localised flooding through the early strong windsjay morning. localised flooding through the early strong winds too,norning. some strong winds too, particularly across western wales and through the bristol channel, where see channel, where we could see gusts to 60 miles an hour. gusts up to 60 miles an hour. temperatures south temperatures in the south generally 7 or 8 degrees, generally around 7 or 8 degrees, but a much colder night across northern scotland where but a much colder night across norcould scotland where but a much colder night across norcould see scotland where but a much colder night across norcould see some:otland where but a much colder night across norcould see some icyand where but a much colder night across norcould see some icy conditions we could see some icy conditions , particularly across the south—west scotland through south—west of scotland through monday morning . a cloudy start monday morning. a cloudy start across the northern half of the uk on monday. some showers continuing along those eastern coast but generally coast of scotland, but generally monday a much more monday will be a much more settled day for of us. settled day for most of us. plenty sunshine as head settled day for most of us. plenty the nshine as head settled day for most of us. plenty the afternoon head settled day for most of us. plenty the afternoon and|ead settled day for most of us. plenty the afternoon and with through the afternoon and with some temperatures some lighter winds, temperatures around 10 to 12 degrees across the south. it'll be feeling a little more pleasant we've little more pleasant than we've seen . tuesday seen over recent days. tuesday starts a much cloudier picture, though. rain continues to push its way northwards through tuesday morning. again, bringing us very heavy rainfall to us some very heavy rainfall to eastern parts of scotland where again, we could see some

localised flooding that localised flooding due to that saturated . further south saturated ground. further south are be plenty of heavy showers pushing from southwest pushing in from the southwest and a blustery feeling day and quite a blustery feeling day to remaining unsettled through tuesday and wednesday. but hints of little more of something a little more settled horizon settled are on the horizon through thursday and friday. that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> who is it? we're here for the show . welcome to the dinosaur show. welcome to the dinosaur hour with me, john cleese . haha, hour with me, john cleese. haha, that was married to a therapist and you survived. i thought we were getting hugh laurie. second best man. at least you interviewed saddam hussein . interviewed saddam hussein. what's that like? i was terrified. >> i'm playing strip poker with these three. oh, no, thank you. >> my cds need to be put in alphabetical order. >> are you going to be problematic again? the dinosaur

hour. houn >> sundays on gb news is

almost any time that people talk about woke the question of gender issues arises. so i thought it might be best if i could speak to perhaps the most famous transgender person in the world, caitlyn jenner . world, caitlyn jenner. >> john, it's a pleasure to be here. >> it's so nice of you. thank you so much. yeah. i want to know what you really feel about woke . woke. >> i hate it . woke. >> i hate it. i am so against

it. you have to realise .