contracts worth more government contracts worth more than £200 million to supply personal protective equipment after she recommended it to ministers. the national crime agency is investigating the firm and its connection to the conservative peer lady mone argues she is being used as a scapegoat by the government for its own covid failings . a judge its own covid failings. a judge has ordered the bbc to release emails related to martin bashir's controversial 1995 interview with princess diana . a interview with princess diana. a warning the following video has some flashing images. mr warning the following video has some flashing images . mr bashir some flashing images. mr bashir officially stepped down from his job at the broadcaster in 2021 after it emerged he had secured the interview through deception and faking documents. judge bnan and faking documents. judge brian kennedy said the corporation had been inconsistent and unreliable in the way it dealt with the initial inquest to release material under the freedom of information act. the material related to how the broadcaster handled the scandal when it came to light in 2020. fresh weather

warnings have been issued as storm fergus sweeps across the country . leitrim village in country. leitrim village in ireland has been hit by a possible tornado as homes and cars are seriously damaged. emergency services were called after high winds from storm mairin flattened trees ripped a roof off a building and left debns roof off a building and left debris scattered on the street . debris scattered on the street. yellow weather warnings are in place and over 40 flood warnings have been issued across england and scotland . gale force winds and scotland. gale force winds are likely to hit south wales and areas of the bristol. channel this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car , on the uk on tv in your car, on your digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now it's back to the free speech nation . on ivy league speech nation. on ivy league universities under fire for anti—semitism. >> joey barton vows to end women's involvement in men's football and the media are calling male rapists. female

again, this is free speech nafion again, this is free speech nation . welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation. with me , andrew doyle. nation. with me, andrew doyle. this is the show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics. and of course, we'll have the latest from those lovable culture warriors who this week are responsible for the alarming increase in the number prisoners. but number of female prisoners. but coming up on the show tonight, should trans inmates allowed should trans inmates be allowed to in female to work and party in female prisons .7 i'll be talking to kate prisons? i'll be talking to kate coleman from prisons, coleman from keep prisons, single dennis kavanagh single sex, dennis kavanagh joins me to discuss whether trans ideology is a threat to gay kids and spiked editor tom slater will discuss a new danish law that prohibits the burning of religious books. and of course, myself and my fantastic panel will be answering questions from our rather beautiful audience . but beautiful studio audience. but i've got to introduce my panellists first. i have the comedians, josh comedians, bruce devlin and josh howie , who are you both? well, howie, who are you both? well,

you're looking very funereal, the pair of you. you're all in black and you're black. tie. what's going on? >> this is . oh, that was a sale >> this is. oh, that was a sale at tk max. >> it was a salad, tk max , i >> it was a salad, tk max, i thought you were mourning for the world. i thought you were going to be quite poetic about it. >> my bank balance? >> my bank balance? >> yeah. for your bank balance. quite >> yeah. i'm kind of in mourning because an audience with because it's an audience with kylie itv tonight and i'm here. >> oh, that's what it's about. okay. is very okay. and black is very slimming, so, you know, just called me fat. >> didn't enjoy the show. >> no, it didn't enjoy the show. absolutely not. >> i meant bruce devlin. >> what i meant bruce devlin. what anyway let's get what a start. anyway let's get our audience. our questions from our audience. so question from so our first question is from alan. alan, where are you? hi, alan. >> hi, guys. after showing really pretty poor judgement this week , can the top us this week, can the top us college leaders ever be trusted ' 7 m. again? >> this was my favourite story of the week. well, i say favourite. it's pretty shocking stuff. so this is the leaders, presidents of harvard and mit and penn. you might have seen that they appeared in that they all appeared in congress and they had to answer these about of these questions about some of these questions about some of the more unsavoury things that

are said by student are being said by student protesters campus now , let's protesters on campus now, let's have look at what was said in have a look at what was said in the clip. >> oh, he's calling for the genocide violate mit's genocide of jews violate mit's code of conduct or rules regarding bullying and harassment . harassment. >> i have not heard calling for the genocide for jews on >> i have not heard calling for the genocide forjews on our the genocide for jews on our campus, but heard chants campus, but you've heard chants for intifada . i've heard chants for intifada. i've heard chants which can be anti—semitic depending on the context when calling for the elimination of the jewish people at penn, does calling for the genocide of jews via late penn's rules or code of conduct is if the yes or no, if the speech becomes conduct, it can be harassment . can be harassment. >> yes, conduct meaning committing the act of genocide . committing the act of genocide. the speech is not harassment . the speech is not harassment. this is unacceptable. ms mcgill and dr. gay at harvard does calling for the genocide of jews violate harvard's rules of bullying and harassment ? yes or no? >> it can be, depending on the context that is quite an

incredible clip, isn't it? >> there are there is an easy answer to the question on whether calling for the genocide of jews violates your conduct. the answer probably i the answer is probably yes. i would thought . you would would have thought. you would hope josh, do you hope anyway. josh, what do you make of this? >> well, an issue that >> well, this is an issue that i've personally known about a long time. people have long time. jewish people have known have been known about and have been calling it . and it is calling out about it. and it is now now we're the now now we're seeing the leadership institutions leadership of these institutions the educational. well, the highest educational. well, these top universities these are the top universities really, arguably the world. really, arguably in the world. you we've oxford and you know, we've got oxford and cambridge but and cambridge and whatnot. but and you see that the problem is you can see that the problem is at and we've seen these at the top. and we've seen these marches . it's just been over marches. it's not just been over the months. this the last couple of months. this stuff on for stuff has been going on for years and it's not just in years now. and it's not just in america. it's been in the uk. we had an academic in bristol who came with some unbelievably came out with some unbelievably like and backed like crazy stuff and got backed by hundreds of academics across the country . and this stuff is the country. and this stuff is embedded and none of these institutions are actually have taken a stand. and this is why. well, no, here's a question. >> i mean, so a of people >> i mean, so a lot of people are raising the free speech

argument here, which would be a lot convincing these lot more convincing if these universities hadn't so universities hadn't been so quick people, throw quick to punish people, throw them micro aggressions them out for micro aggressions for slightest perceived them out for micro aggressions for where st perceived them out for micro aggressions for where there ceived them out for micro aggressions for where there wasn't even offence where there wasn't even an offence, calling the an offence, but calling for the genocide jews . that's okay, genocide of jews. that's okay, right? this is the thing. it's an incredible double standard. >> it's >> it's an unbelievable, it's unbelievable not that unbelievable hypocrisy. not that it's is the first it's not like this is the first time that the woke the far time that the woke or the far left are being a hypocrite. of course not. that is course not. no. but that is that's like a defining that's almost like a defining characteristic what it is to characteristic of what it is to be woke. >> so this is the question, because the woke have this idea that there are hierarchies of privilege and they've put jews at the top that higher. at the top of that higher. they say privileged say they're the most privileged and so therefore they're not to be protected. that's the implication this implication of this. but this sort suggests i mean, had sort of suggests how i mean, had they calling for the death they been calling for the death of other ethnic group, could of any other ethnic group, could those have no, those presidents have said no, we're fine, we're with. we're fine, we're fine with. >> about context and >> well, it's about context and this no, course this and that? no, of course not. yeah. i mean, it was a disgraceful has disgraceful display. one has since resigned and. and this is the thing is that has the other thing is that one has resigned and there's for resigned and there's calls for others resign. all this others to resign. but all this does the gristle

does is it's meat to the gristle for anti—semites because they 90, for anti—semites because they go, oh look, this person's resigning. be resigning. so jews must be powerful. no, this powerful. it's like, no, this person being held accountable person is being held accountable for words actions. for their words and actions. >> was talking to peter >> well, i was talking to peter bogosian he made bogosian about this, and he made the people should stop the case that people should stop giving money to their universities. universities universities. the universities are place s as when are not the same place s as when you university, right? you went to university, right? they an they are now captured by an ideology. and you're feeding ideology. and so you're feeding money a that money into a system that effectively this kind effectively promotes this kind of. but they're getting that money instead. money from qatar instead. >> the difference is >> so that's the difference is billions been pumped billions has been pumped in from qatar. following this qatar. so they're following this ideology. course, ideology. qatar, of course, housing hamas, leadership of housing hamas, the leadership of hamas, and putting housing hamas, the leadership of hanout and putting housing hamas, the leadership of hanout there. and putting housing hamas, the leadership of hanout there. so and putting housing hamas, the leadership of hanout there. so andcan ting housing hamas, the leadership of hanout there. so andcan pull this out there. so you can pull the back. and there the funds back. and there are people have their people who have taken their funds back. but the question for them, they're going, oh, well, am have billion am i going to have a billion here a hundred here or a hundred million? >> for free speech on on >> i'm all for free speech on on campus. bruce but, know, it campus. bruce but, you know, it has to be applied consistently. and looks as though to me it and it looks as though to me it absolutely isn't here. >> well, yeah, no , i see what >> well, yeah, no, i see what you're saying there. i mean, obviously what they've said in terms the whole context thing terms of the whole context thing was like, know what context was like, you know what context would make that acceptable?

exactly i'm really sure. exactly i'm really not sure. i think that's i mean, a lot of people are saying, well, they weren't question weren't the people in question weren't the people in question weren't genocide weren't calling for the genocide of that's your misinterpretation >> that's your misinterpretation of that. but i have heard people saying explicit saying very explicit anti—semitic and anti—semitic things. and certainly people on certainly i've heard people on campus terrorist campus supporting terrorist acts. the case, saying acts. that's the case, saying here's the context, the context is coming from the far is if it's coming from the far right, like, right, there would be like, that's terrible. right, there would be like, that's trif'ible. right, there would be like, that's trif'iblecoming from their >> but if it's coming from their political alignment and the far left, then suddenly it's acceptable excuses can be made. >> do think i mean, just >> do you think i mean, just watching that clip, it seemed to me that those presidents, the three in question, three presidents in question, looked they looked very nervous. they were grinning smiling almost, but grinning or smiling almost, but it nervous smile. it looked like a nervous smile. it's like they were it's almost like they were thinking, get out of thinking, how can i get out of this? can i get out of this this? how can i get out of this without upsetting the crazy students to students who are going to protest demand protest and demand my resignation? imagining that resignation? am i imagining that that's looked like to me? >> no, no, no, no. i completely agree with you. >> yeah. what do you think? >> yeah. what do you think? >> yeah. what do you think? >> yeah. no mean, the woman in >> yeah. no i mean, the woman in the middle was, like, grinning. >> yeah. no i mean, the woman in the coulda was, like, grinning. >> yeah. no i mean, the woman in the coulda wa�*of.ike, grinning. >> yeah. no i mean, the woman in the coulda wa�*of say grinning. >> yeah. no i mean, the woman in the coulda wa�*of say g|you're. you could sort of say if you're being generous. yes, it was nervousness, but it was a sort

of there sort of of smirk. like there was sort of out super clever within out being super clever within the and lawyery speak for the system and lawyery speak for what clear moral position. what is a clear moral position. >> the president of harvard >> and the president of harvard has apologised since. but one suspects to do with the suspects that's to do with the threats of funding being withdrawn. people withdrawn. a lot of rich people are saying now, well, we don't want fund anymore and want to fund you anymore and that's enough. they want to fund you anymore and thatdo enough. they want to fund you anymore and that do what enough. they want to fund you anymore and that do what they nough. they want to fund you anymore and that do what they want1. they want to fund you anymore and that do what they want with ay want to fund you anymore and that do what they want with their can do what they want with their money. okay. we're going move money. okay. we're going to move to question from tommy. to on a question from tommy. where's hello, tommy. where's tommy? hello, tommy. hi, abby. well, of you abby. hi uh, well, both of you go on. >> uh, why do scotland want to make it easier for kids to change gender? yeah. >> have the >> yeah, you always have the good questions. you, too. i think is. i think this is a think this is. i think this is a very old one, so a court has found in favour of the uk government blocking scotland's landmark government blocking scotland's landm remember this government blocking scotland's landmremember this story you'll remember this story because covered it before. because we covered it before. this was basically happened because we covered it before. this withe asically happened because we covered it before. this withe government happened because we covered it before. this withe government in appened is that the government in scotland lodged a court case scotland had lodged a court case against westminster because westminster had used a section 35 order to block its gender recognition reform bill. now, josh, the snp were told, weren't they ? if you try and challenge they? if you try and challenge this, you will lose. but they were also told before the bill

had passed that this was a bad idea, that you didn't have the support of the majority of people in scotland as it happened. >> no, it didn't. but and they've wasted whole of they've wasted a whole load of scottish taxpayers scottish money, taxpayers money on and there's already on this. and there's already a deficit there. they have 21 days, i believe , to call it in, days, i believe, to call it in, to protest or whatever. >> but let me ask the scottish person on the panel, because you are representative of the nation tonight. so, bruce , why would tonight. so, bruce, why would they go for this? why would they bother personally? >> i think so. we've just had a leadership contest in scotland because nicola had somewhere else to go. she was busy. >> she was she was doing her hair. >> she's got an electric car now. but more of that later. and but the fact of the matter is, the three main contenders weren't particularly pro lgbtq+ so and i'm speaking this is conjecture on my part. yes was it the case then, because they suffered some bad press by virtue of perhaps not turning up to vote on things? kate forbes

was very vocal on the fact that although she's nothing against gay couples and all that kind of stuff, she couldn't in all conscience support them. >> i'm not because of her religious beliefs. >> because her. >> yes, because of her. apparently, won't hang apparently, she won't hang washing on a sunday. i don't washing out on a sunday. i don't know got the bigger know who's got the bigger problem. though, problem. that's just me, though, so that either. so i won't do that either. >> be fair, i don't do my own washing. >> no. the fact of the matter is, think it might have been is, i think it might have been something and it might have been a pr thing whatever. a pr thing or whatever. interesting. a lot of people interesting. but a lot of people are saying it's affront to are saying it's an affront to scottish democracy. and then scottish democracy. kc and then a people are saying, a lot of people are saying, well, have had well, we shouldn't have had devolution beginning devolution in the beginning because seem because it just doesn't seem to have that's have worked well, that's that's the way a lot of politicians within the snp are spinning it and saying, know, and they're saying, you know, this proves are this just proves that we are beholden westminster beholden to westminster and that this is a terrible situation. >> but josh, there were so many problems bill. i mean, problems with that bill. i mean, there amendments there were amendments tabled, people to people tried to get them to change so same sex change it. so that same sex wards in hospitals could be protected, that women's wards in hospitals could be protectecouldthat women's wards in hospitals could be protectecould bet women's wards in hospitals could be protectecould be protected and prisons could be protected and wouldn't have rapists wouldn't have male rapists installed that sex

installed in them so that sex criminals on trial couldn't suddenly as women suddenly identify as women and apply all of this apply for a grc. so all of this stuff was there was by stuff was there was rejected by the that's why the bill was the snp. that's why the bill was bad. surely no. no. yeah. >> ignored. this this >> it was ignored. this this direct evidence of the stuff that we saw immediately bear fruit. having isla bryson being sent female jail happened sent to a female jail happened immediately. were immediately. and then they were like, hadn't considered like, oh, we hadn't considered this stuff except for fact this stuff except for the fact that experts told them that the experts had told them directly, is what's going directly, this is what's going to and the acquisition of >> and also the acquisition of gender a grc, gender reform gender of a grc, a gender reform certificate or a recognition certificate or a recognition certificate be certificate that would then be applicable other parts of the uk. >> well, that's why that was the whole they the whole reason they called in the whole reason they called in the whole 35 because whole section 35 thing, because it's different you're just it's different if you're just deaung it's different if you're just dealing scottish laws and dealing with scottish laws and scottish in of scottish people in terms of getting subscriptions getting free subscriptions or something affect something that doesn't affect the country. but the rest of the country. but this would change the law effectively for the of the effectively for the rest of the country , which is why they call country, which is why they call it into question. and that's why it into question. and that's why it didn't. it got it got cancelled. >> okay. well, let's move on now to question from mark acas. to a question from mark acas. have marcus? yeah, hello. have we got marcus? yeah, hello. >> isjoey have we got marcus? yeah, hello. >> is joey barton wrong to criticise female pundits working in men's football? criticise female pundits working

in rwell, football? criticise female pundits working in rwell, okay,3ll? criticise female pundits working in rwell, okay, so’ criticise female pundits working in rwell, okay, so bar joey >> well, okay, so bar and joey barton, huge barton, he's provoked this huge backlash when he posted this series of tweets or exes or whatever to call whatever we're meant to call them and he said them at the moment. and he said women be with women shouldn't be talking with any authority in any kind of authority in football because it's a man's game. then he doubled down. game. and then he doubled down. he interview with piers he had an interview with piers morgan on morgan and he doubled down on this. lot about joey this. you know, a lot about joey barton. you've been looking into this. what do you think, bruce? >> this a who faked >> well, this is a man who faked a say something a french accent to say something about finger about a mongoose, a finger buffet, and during a press conference, so is he are you sure you're not dreaming that that sounds surreal me. sure you're not dreaming that tha didjnds surreal me. sure you're not dreaming that tha did that surreal me. sure you're not dreaming that tha did that not �*eal me. sure you're not dreaming that tha did that not happen?e. >> did that not happen? >> did that not happen? >> joey barton not the one >> is joey barton not the one that starts speaking french? >> is joey barton not the one tha hearts speaking french? >> is joey barton not the one tha he did, speaking french? >> is joey barton not the one tha he did, yeah. ng french? >> is joey barton not the one tha he did, yeah. no, french? >> is joey barton not the one tha he did, yeah. no, he rench? >> is joey barton not the one tha he did, yeah. no, he did]? >> he did, yeah. no, he did. they're me he did. yes. they're telling me he did. yes. >> you. not you, but. >> thank you. not you, but. okay, so i'm just a bit like it was like the other day. i was going through instagram and a woman telling me about woman was telling me about erectile dysfunction disorder. woman was telling me about erec'ile dysfunction disorder. woman was telling me about erec'i thought|ction disorder. woman was telling me about erec'i thought|ction diitirder. woman was telling me about erec'i thought|ction diit was. and i thought even if it was applicable to which it's applicable to me, which it's not, was like, why is she not, i was like, why is she telling me this? so i don't know. he have point? does know. does he have a point? does he i mean, you know me he not? i mean, you know me football or he just trying to football or is he just trying to gain himself? gain attention for himself? >> don't know.

>> maybe. i don't know. >> maybe. i don't know. >> he then just speaking >> could he then just speaking of accent. yeah, exactly. of german accent. yeah, exactly. >> good at accents. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> yeah. yeah good for him. what do you make of this, do do you make of this, josh? do you women be you think women should be involved punditry? involved in football punditry? >> issue here is >> it's a wider issue here is can critics in general, which is punditry of criticism punditry is a form of criticism come can you to them come um, can you listen to them when they haven't got expertise doing actual thing that doing the actual thing that they're critiquing? >> interesting. >> interesting. >> well, a lot of comedy critics have failed comedians. well, that's have failed comedians. well, tha but at least they've done it. >> but at least they've done it. yes. so whether you can of yes. so whether you can sort of listen to word or it's like listen to the word or it's like i tv criticism as well. yes, i do tv criticism as well. yes, i've television not just i've made television not just here, like i can here, but so i feel like i can at least call attention to some of these things. having been inside the system. yeah. the question is, are female ex—footballers how relevant are they game? that's they to the male game? that's his is that the male his argument. is that the male game is different enough. but why should matter? why should it matter? >> you could do it >> like because you could do it vice versa, couldn't you vice versa, couldn't you? you could have female footballer could have a female footballer or female footballer or an ex female footballer commenting on a men's game. i that would sense to me. that would make sense to me. >> that's what he's saying >> well, that's what he's saying is have a female ex is can you have a female ex footballer? >> well, they do it in tennis

all the time. they do it in tennis. >> but again, there are people who that there there who might say that there there are different they are tennis. i would arguably even more. are different they are tennis. i wotlt's arguably even more. are different they are tennis. i wotlt's a arguably even more. are different they are tennis. i wotlt's a very jably even more. are different they are tennis. i wotlt's a very differentn more. are different they are tennis. i wotlt's a very different gamee. so. it's a very different game between female game and the between the female game and the male game is much male game. the male game is much more about power. it's about the serve, female serve, you know, whereas female is much more about the court. so there is argument to be made there is an argument to be made there. not saying that that there. i'm not saying that that makes but i think it makes him right, but i think it goes a argument of goes to a wider argument of whether anybody who doesn't do that specifically that thing specifically can then their or not. their opinion is valid or not. >> very interesting. okay. >> okay. very interesting. okay. let's question. let's get another question. this one is from ryan. >> good evening. is the national anthem offensive? >> mean the german ones? >> well, yeah, terms of the >> well, yeah, in terms of the sound of it, the melody, do you mean? >> i personally, i don't think it is. but i think in terms of the lyrics, well, this is bristol university, so they dropped the national from bristol university, so they drograduation ational from bristol university, so they drograduation ceremonies. from its graduation ceremonies. >> said it's the >> they said it's got the potential to offence. what potential to cause offence. what do that, josh? do you think of that, josh? i mean, is it just one of these other things where, you know, a couple of people say, you know, this is a small story that we're blowing proportion is blowing out of proportion or is there something significant?

blowing out of proportion or is the no,)mething significant? blowing out of proportion or is the no, itiething significant? blowing out of proportion or is the no, it ishing significant? blowing out of proportion or is the no, it is massivelyicant? >> no, it is massively significant. and it's significant. is it? and it's endemic of we've seen of endemic of what we've seen of this reason for this show. i think it's absolutely think it's an absolutely disgusting the idea disgusting decision. the idea that find the that someone could find the national anthem anthem offensive. cater offensive. and we have to cater to their needs. that's that's the problem, isn't it? >> it's disgusting. i mean, bruce, that is that the there bruce, that is that is the there is something changing in our culture whereby we are prioritising the feelings of people who offended by people who are offended by things, whereas sometimes it's to it's fine being to okay say it's fine being offended , but not going to offended, but we're not going to change you because change anything for you because the world revolve around you. no, completely agree. i do >> no, i completely agree. i do not understand. it's not understand. and again, it's a word came with earlier a word you came with earlier with arrogance to do with just stop people know, stop oil. people you know, why is offence more is your offence so much more important anything else ? important than anything else? you individual. and i'm you is one individual. and i'm not that people shouldn't not saying that people shouldn't have reply or their have the right to reply or their opinions offended even. opinions or to be offended even. >> wrong with being >> nothing wrong with being offended, have offended, but you have to be offended, but you have to be offended time. offended all the time. >> can not just kind of >> can you not just kind of think, do you know what i don't like baked beans. i'm not going to eat them. >> it's so exhausting being offended i find this. >> i have friends who are

knackered. honestly, of course, just whole time. just whining the whole time. i mean, so funny. mean, it's so funny. >> like when i put a tweet out and someone underneath complains about, oh, i'll never watch this, this, me so this, this, it makes me so angry. i just think calm down, it's fine. you have to tell everyone that upset about it's fine. you have to tell eveerust that upset about it's fine. you have to tell eveerust don't upset about it's fine. you have to tell eveerust don't watch upset about it's fine. you have to tell eveerust don't watch it.;et about it's fine. you have to tell eveerust don't watch it. and )0ul this. just don't watch it. and no to care. no one's going to care. >> specifically being offended by the national anthem. yeah, this is dreary, this is this is quite dreary, isn't it? have problems isn't it? we have problems in this is this country, but this is a great country. and the idea that someone's going to be offend by it. you can just go. it. i'm sorry, you can just go. >> wow. it. i'm sorry, you can just go. >> sorry. i feel i feel very strongly very, very strongly is getting very, very militant this. militant on this. >> no, i like militant. josh, we want more of that. >> do we know if the person that complained initially complained about this initially is country or not? is from this country or not? >> way? >> by the way? >> by the way? >> anymore. oh, no. >> by the way? >> well, nymore. oh, no. >> by the way? >> well, look, re. oh, no. >> by the way? >> well, look, on oh, no. >> by the way? >> well, look, on that|o. >> by the way? >> well, look, on that note, next on free speech nation, will the row over the elgin marbles between greece and the uk ever be resolved? >> don't anywhere

>> you're listening to gb news radio .

radio. >> welcome back to free speech nation. the argument over whether the uk should return the elgin marbles to greece broke out again last month after rishi sunak accused the greek prime minister of trying to grandstand over the parthenon sculptures. sunak defended cancelling a meeting with the greek pm and said it had become clear the meeting was not to discuss substantive issues for the future. well will there ever be an end to this dispute? i'm delighted to be joined by writer and author tiffany jenkins . and author tiffany jenkins. welcome to the show, tiffany . welcome to the show, tiffany. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> now, tiffany has written this fantastic book, and i read this recently and i would urge everyone to read it. this is called keeping their marbles, but it's a book that's not just about the elgin marbles. you also all sorts of other also cover all sorts of other aspects repati creation for aspects of repati creation for museums . but aspects of repati creation for museums. but let's just start with the elgin marbles. elgin took or brought them. they took these or brought them. they are now in the british museum. they've been there ever since. what's the background to this? why? because was always why? because it was always controversial, wasn't it? >> the acropolis and the

>> the acropolis itself and the parthenon was controversial when it was first built by pericles in 432 bc. >> so this goes way back. >> so this goes way back. >> really? yes a long history to it. i mean, it was controversial at the time because it was a very flamboyant expensive very flamboyant and expensive project. it would have been project. and it would have been a kind of a knock back to the persians who they'd just had a war with. it was it was a sort of trophy after a war. yes come the 19th century, we greece wasn't a state at that stage. it wasn't a state at that stage. it was under the ottoman empire. so many travellers hadn't been able to get there . the turks were to get there. the turks were having wars with venice . but having wars with venice. but finally sort of come the 1800s, late 17 century, late 1700s, early 1800s, you have a kind of opening up and you also have a particular moment where people began to get interested in antiquity up until that point, they weren't really that interested . and, you know, when interested. and, you know, when the museum was first the british museum was first opened, full objects opened, it was full of objects and artefacts from the voyages of there was no

of discovery. there was no antiquity yes at that very antiquity in yes at that very moment. it was also used as a garrison by the turks. and there was a mosque in there in the parthenon. in the parthenon . it parthenon. in the parthenon. it was ruined. yes. i mean, it was just a ruin. and people were taking bricks and parts of it for their houses and grinding it up and all the rest of it. yes. so it's not at what we recognise today as this sort of an archaeological site. >> that's very interesting because you mentioned in the book, i didn't before book, and i didn't know before reading that even at reading your book that even at the lord elgin wasn't sure the time lord elgin wasn't sure about taking the marbles, but he decided to preserve decided to do so to preserve them. he felt they were actually in to be they remained in danger to be if they remained in danger to be if they remained in they were in danger. in athens, they were in danger. >> were also >> and the french were also eyeing up, as were eyeing them up, as were the germans . yes. he may have germans. yes. so he may have kind it may have been for kind of it may have been for sort of self—aggrandisement it was originally for his home. yes. then it kind of they yes. but then it kind of they just became overcome by the beauty it. and they they beauty of it. and they they started it not just not started taking it not just not just sort of drawings and casts. they did take a few from the from the building. >> and one of the things you

trace your book is impact trace in your book is the impact of marbles in of the parthenon marbles in london on the artistic community. you know, on the very idea of aesthetics. you know, it's very, very important that they i suppose, and they were there, i suppose, and they were there, i suppose, and they did preserve them. >> definitely preserved >> they definitely preserved them. the interesting them. i think the interesting thing about when they arrived in london were initially london and they were initially at in park lane is that at his home in park lane is that people wrote about what they were actually like because they had this idea of what they were like. but when they actually saw the real things , in a way they the real things, in a way they were disappointed. oh, really? yes. hadn't they yes. because they hadn't they had a you know, those roman sculptures that they've got all their arms. they're really poised. they're really white. and then these battered greek sculptures with half an arm kind of left on the floor somewhere , of left on the floor somewhere, they're much more dynamic and vibrant as sculptures. yes so there's a big row over them as to whether they're any good or not. there was a discussion about actually restoring them and sanding down and all and sanding them down and all the of it. the rest of it. >> yes. didn't they clean them

in a very bad way? >> that was 1930. that was later. but come moment, later. so but come this moment, you shift. you have you have this shift. you have this taste away from this shift in taste away from rome, all the collectors rome, which all the collectors are obsessed with, towards towards athens. and this towards ancient athens. and this sort romantic sort of much more romantic feeling. byron felt it was >> now, byron felt it was vandalism to take these . vandalism to take these. >> he did. and there was that sort of keeping with that sort of in keeping with that kind romantic ideal, sort of in keeping with that kind romantic ideal , there kind of romantic ideal, there was that actually they was a sense that actually they should be just allowed to crumble further. didn't crumble further. byron didn't want go into the want them to go into the acropolis or anything want them to go into the acrothat, or anything want them to go into the acrothat, which or anything want them to go into the acrothat, which obviously hing like that, which obviously didn't he wanted to didn't exist. he wanted them to just right. okay. eroded just decay right. okay. eroded by time. >> dispute has been >> so this dispute has been going a long time. there have going on a long time. there have been arguments from the very moment brought moment that elgin brought them back rowing back and we're still rowing about it's become about it today. and it's become about it today. and it's become a politicised idea. now, i a very politicised idea. now, i have also read have to say, i also read christopher hitchens books on book on the parthenon book on the on the parthenon marbles marbles, marbles or the elgin marbles, even call them is even what you call them is contentious. and i have to contentious. yes. and i have to say i was persuaded i was reading it and i was persuaded. i thought, okay, particularly aesthetically, been the aesthetically, i've been to the acropolis museum. seen the acropolis museum. i've seen the remaining i did remaining marbles. and i did think myself how wonderful it

think to myself how wonderful it would have in one would be to have them all in one place view of the place with the view of the parthenon, the acropolis, parthenon, of the acropolis, over way that persuade over the way that did persuade me. but then reading your book over the way that did persuade me. lyut then reading your book over the way that did persuade me. i was1en reading your book over the way that did persuade me. i was persuaded| your book over the way that did persuade me. i was persuaded to>ur book over the way that did persuade me. i was persuaded to your)ok and i was persuaded to your point view. so i'm very point of view. so i'm very undecided issue. so undecided on this issue. so could summarise what is your could you summarise what is your argument for keeping the marbles in uk? in the uk? >> i mean, i think it's reasonable to be persuaded either way. go back and forth. i was in athens over the summer and museum, the acropolis and the museum, the acropolis museum elegant and there you museum is elegant and there you do see the acropolis itself. yes. and it makes sense of the acropolis. it does. it also makes sense of that kind of particular moment of the parthenon sculptures , because parthenon sculptures, because you see the sculptures that came before it, they're really static and kind stiff and almost and kind of stiff and almost like kind of dolls or like kind of robot dolls or something . and then something. and then the parthenon sculptures and parthenon sculptures come up and they around and horses they leaping around and horses have pulsing veins on their long nose and all the rest of it. so you do get a particular sense of place and origin there. but in the british museum, you get a different story that is complementary and i think you see it if you walk into the

british museum, you you kind of walk the egyptian walk through the egyptian galleries, the persian galleries, the persian galleries, you know, the assyrians and the of the assyrians and the kind of the kind enemy of athens. and you kind of enemy of athens. and you see through through comparison how distinctive the parthenon . how distinctive the parthenon. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> yes. so does it better help us to better understand the parthenon in the british museum ? parthenon in the british museum? without question, it does in a way that it can't. at the acropolis museum and vice versa, you know, so it's complementary. >> but i suppose a lot of the debate been reduced this debate has been reduced to this idea museums are idea that museums are effectively driving imperialism. idea that museums are effecyou.y driving imperialism. idea that museums are effecyou.y drivithe mperialism. idea that museums are effecyou.y drivithe argumentn. idea that museums are effecyou.y drivithe argument in now you make the argument in your that they benefited your book that they benefited from they your book that they benefited from drive they your book that they benefited from drive it. they your book that they benefited from drive it. is they your book that they benefited from drive it. is reductive didn't drive it. is it reductive to say that museums are effectively centres where we present the spoils of conquest and that we should therefore send them back ? send them back? >> i don't. i think we have to look at what museums actually do do, which is help us understand particular cultures and their particular cultures and their particular moments through comparison . they take us out of comparison. they take us out of our ordinary lives when we go in to see them and almost act like

a time machine , you know, they a time machine, you know, they can actually teach us a little bit about imperialism and colonialism. yes. although it has be said, it was the has to be said, it was the ottomans in the case of greece. well, right . and well, that's right. and obviously parthenon itself obviously the parthenon itself was built not just when athens was built not just when athens was at its most democratic , but was at its most democratic, but as its most imperial. was at its most democratic, but as its most imperial . yes. and as its most imperial. yes. and elgin sort of built it and all the rest of it. >> so it's morally complicated. it's morally complicated. and in elgin, seek permission from the ottomans. yes >> and he got it. he got a firman. but you know, permission today is very different when you have kind contracts the have kind of contracts the size of elephant. of course. of an elephant. yes, of course. everything and all the re st. rest. >> so what you make of this >> so what do you make of this argument? you know, because museums around world are museums around the world are facing at the facing this reckoning at the moment. we return everything moment. do we return everything and feel that and if because do you feel that museums become essentially museums have become essentially politicised moment? politicised at the moment? >> it's important >> i think it's important to note culture always note that culture has always been political. when you had the vision that we have of the acropolis. today is a 19th century vision with the bavarian monarchy seeking to show that the new greek state was actually

not just a kind of new invention. it kind of it it it went back centuries equally, when britain acquired the marbles, there was a sense that it would restore some sort of democratic ideal within britain. so there's politics around. but now in a way, there's kind of it's all instrument and there's no understanding of ancient athens. i mean, the interesting thing about this discussion recently with the greek prime minister and rishi sunak was that it had absolutely nothing to do with the parthenon. you learned nothing. and i think we need to get back to a situation where actually museums can tell us about about the past, not moralise or lecture us, which is what they're doing now, and which i don't think anybody really likes. whatever side of the political spectrum you're on. >> but hasn't that argument been lost in a way, because i can't go to a museum these days without being lectured by these little by little placards that appear by various even various artefacts or even artworks, how artworks, just telling me how evil was , you know, evil the artist was, you know, and wrong you to look at

it. >> it's a it.- >> it's a it's it.— >> it's a it's a very it. >> it's a it's a very serious problem. it's something that's beenin problem. it's something that's been in the making for probably about 40 years. yes i think what's to what's really important to understand about the repatriation that repatriation argument is that in many those calling for many cases, those calling for repatriation most loudly and most passionately are actually western curators, right? they're not, you know, active archivists or indigenous groups or whatever . it's sort of there's this kind of let's chuck them out of the doom of let's chuck them out of the door, which is one of the things you're having at the moment with the benin bronzes. so there's this sort internal crisis . this sort of internal crisis. yes, yes. they haven't been captured. almost internal. are you are you suggesting >> are you are you suggesting that social justice activists like to speak on other people's behalf? outrageous like to speak on other people's behalf? outricertainly do. but >> yes, they certainly do. but my is it's come from my point is, is it's come from within. they i don't think they've been captured. i think they've been captured. i think they of they've birthed it. they sort of they've birthed it. yes. a way, they've yes. i mean, in a way, they've created activists from created the activists from without. yes and there's a wonderful story about an anthropologist in america returning some human remains, which have also been subject to great controversy, to a tribe

and the person who's receiving them is interviewed . and he them is interviewed. and he says, well, we didn't really want them, but it would be rude not to because this guy was so kind of enthusiastic . and so kind of enthusiastic. and so there's this sort of that dynamic is very strong, profound. but i think the reassuring thing is if you want to kind of my perspective on whether we should be optimistic or pessimistic is that i think the majority of audience voices do not like it . and the objects do not like it. and the objects themselves still speak . so if themselves still speak. so if you go to the duveen galleries and look at the elgin marbles, they will still you they will still tell you something athens . you something about athens. you know, 2500 years ago, regardless of the social justice absolute right. >> tiffany jenkins, thank you so much for joining >> tiffany jenkins, thank you so much forjoining me tonight. much for joining me tonight. thank you . and next on free thank you. and next on free speech nation should trans inmates in prisons be allowed to work? and party in the female estate ? don't go anywhere .

i was, you know, i was your

feral, feral little kid on the street, really in the east end . street, really in the east end. welcome back to free speech nation. >> with me, andrew doyle. later in the show, i'll be turning agony. uncle with the help of my wonderful panel, bruce devlin and howie and we're going and josh howie and we're going to help deal with your to help you deal with your unfiltered dilemmas if you've got problems at all, then got any problems at all, then just email at gb views just email us at gb views gbnews.com our best gbnews.com and we'll do our best to answer your problems a new scottish service policy scottish prison service policy will mostly keep trans inmates with a history of violence against women out of female scottish jails. but to according a new report, the inmates could still allowed to mingle with still be allowed to mingle with female the report female prisoners. the report says transgender people in custody be provided. the custody should be provided. the opportunity supported opportunity and supported to work towards being accommodated in that aligns with in an estate that aligns with their affirmed gender. so that on release to the community they have had the opportunity to live with their with those who share their affirmed gender. those trans prisoners deemed too dangerous to be given a permanent swap

into the female estate could also offered visitation also be offered visitation rights women's jails to allow rights to women's jails to allow them mingle with female them to mingle with female inmates . them to mingle with female inmates. here's them to mingle with female inmates . here's another inmates. here's another quotation an individualised approach was also seen to offer flex ability to the management of transgender individuals in prison. while it may be necessary to accommodate transgender individuals in a prison which does not align with their gender, there may their affirmed gender, there may be ways supporting be other ways of supporting their gender identity. for example, access to work, example, through access to work, parties, activities or even programs with others of their gender identity. by participating in activities and programs in that estate. while remained housing in the estate which aligns with their gender assigned birth, where it is assigned at birth, where it is deemed safe to do so. for the individual and for others. now prison leaders in scotland have also accused secrecy prison leaders in scotland have also rulingccused secrecy prison leaders in scotland have also rulingccusethey secrecy prison leaders in scotland have also rulingccusethey willacy prison leaders in scotland have also rulingccusethey will no after ruling that they will no longer confirm the number of male bodied transgender inmates serving sentences in women's jails . the director of keep jails. the director of keep pfisons jails. the director of keep prisons single sex, kate coleman, joins me now . welcome coleman, joins me now. welcome to show, kate . okay there's to the show, kate. okay there's a lot to get through here, but it sounds like the authorities

in scotland are saying that to a degree, we need to accommodate people according to their beliefs about they are as beliefs about who they are as opposed the biologic reality opposed to the biologic reality of they are. that a fair assessment? >> i mean, i think it goes further than that, actually . if further than that, actually. if you start unpicking what's actually with this actually happening with this policy . and i think the first policy. and i think the first thing to say is that the policy document itself is extremely light there's light on details. there's nothing of substance to it. you only uncover the reality of what's going on. if you read the supplementary documentation, the equality and human rights impact assessment and the data protection impact assessment . so protection impact assessment. so what is that reality? it's hidden. reality that hidden. so the reality is that at heart this is at the heart of this policy is the presumption in that this group of men and i'm going to call them men because they are men who assume a trans gender identity , we should be identity, we should be facilitated and as much as possible to the highest degree as possible to being allowed to go into the female estate and where where that will enable them to be transferred there.

thatis them to be transferred there. that is what should happen. and even for that very small number of prisoners that the scottish pfison of prisoners that the scottish prison service will deem to be posing an unacceptable level of risk to women in prison, that it appears that they should still be allowed to go there, you know, for day release, for activity . as for programs penned activity. as for programs penned for release in order that they can practice being, women can i ask it's just i'm disgusted . ask it's just i'm disgusted. >> have the women in these prisons being consulted about what they think about it because it just sounds to me like you're prioritising their or they are prioritising their or they are prioritising their or they are prioritising the feelings of those . my those individuals. my understanding that a lot of understanding is that a lot of the women prisons are the women in prisons are particularly vulnerable. a lot of experienced of them have experienced domestic violence of them have experienced don hands violence of them have experienced don hands of violence of them have experienced donhands of men violence of them have experienced donhands of men . violence of them have experienced donhands of men . bluntnce of them have experienced donhands of men . blunt force the hands of men. blunt force trauma to the head, all sorts of horrendous things. and there's a reason why they don't want to be around men. yes, well, exactly. >> i mean, it's not rocket science. there's a reason why prisons are segregated by sex or, you know , they're not. but or, you know, they're not. but there's a reason why on the face

of it, they are segregated by sex. it's not rocket science. we know why that is as a society. but you're quite right where you have the preferences, the feelings, the desire , ears of feelings, the desire, ears of this particular group of men . it this particular group of men. it seems that the scottish prison service is willing to bend over backwards to accommodate it. and i think what we can contrast this with is the ministry of justice. they also released a revised policy back in march and they take a very, very different perspective . and they've had a perspective. and they've had a very radical shift where they're now placing the safety of women right at the heart of the policy. is it perfect ? no, it's policy. is it perfect? no, it's not. will it see no men being in women's prisons says it's unlikely, but it is still a dramatic shift. so for that policy , we see that any man with policy, we see that any man with any conviction for a violent or sexual offence, not just against women, cannot be accommodated in the female estate separately to that and separately from any

consideration of conviction, any man who has intact male genhaua man who has intact male genitalia cannot be accommodated in the female estate exceptions to that can only ever be considered if there is the very highest degree of confidence in only the very lowest level of risk to women in prison. and then it has to be signed off by then it has to be signed off by the director of hmp, his majesty's prison, and probation service. and then it has to go to the minister for sign off so you have more restrictions. you have the safety of women at its heart and you have that level of a personal accountable entity. whereas with the scottish prison service, the starting presumption is, well, no , we presumption is, well, no, we should be facilitating these men to go into women's prisons. and if they're not safe enough to be housed there on a permanent basis, then we should still let them access activities. and you know , to use, as you say, know, to use, as you say, vulnerable women in prison as props , as non—consensual props props, as non—consensual props in order that this group of men can practice being women is it's

obscene. i think a lot of people watching will be surprised . watching will be surprised. >> and, you know, whenever we cover this on the show, as we do a lot , a lot of people comment a lot, a lot of people comment and they had no idea this and say they had no idea this was going on because, you know, you take case adam you take the case of adam graham, who double rapist who graham, who a double rapist who decided identify as isla decided to identify as isla bryson housed in a bryson and then was housed in a female prison they were female prison while they were making a risk assessment. what risk assessment do you need more than the fact that he's a man with a double conviction for r ape? rape? >> well, exactly. exactly. it shouldn't even be a question. >> so why is it happening? >> so why is it happening? >> why is it happening? well, that's an excellent question , that's an excellent question, isn't i mean, you know, isn't it? i mean, you know, scotland , as you know, scotland has, as you know, pardoned many scottish people in the but it pretty the audience, but it has pretty much the dogs, hasn't much gone to the dogs, hasn't it? know, in terms of these it? you know, in terms of these issues, in terms of this issue, a lot scottish people a lot of scottish people would agree to has agree with you to be fair, has gone to the dogs. i think. i mean, we know going back to when the first scottish prison service policy on this was was put in place in two 2014, in the

run up to that, there was very much a concerted effort to get this past in prisons because, you know, as you say, you know, prisons, it's very hidden. you don't know what's going on. you know, the isla bryson splashed across the front page are a rarity . yes. and, you know , rarity. yes. and, you know, unfortunately, most people in the general public, they don't care about prisoners and they don't care about women in prison . you know. so that might be an easy win. it's an easy win. and if you can make it work in in a prison, then you can set that precedent and you can start rolling it out to the sectors and the services where people might care more . so schools and might care more. so schools and hospitals, nursing homes, you know, sports centres , you know, know, sports centres, you know, those kind of areas you can go, well, we've got this precedent. it works in prison . you know, it works in prison. you know, the reason why it works in prison is because, you know , the prison is because, you know, the reports aren't coming out . and reports aren't coming out. and as you quite rightly said, you know , the scottish prison

know, the scottish prison service has now changed their policy on data reporting and they will no longer be publishing the number of male prisoners held in the female estate. so we won't be able to track this. we will not know what impact this new policy has and we will not be able to find out how many of the ones who are deemed not safe enough to be housed in the female estate are still being allowed over for , still being allowed over for, you know, work parties. you know, what ever it is that they're doing. >> so what can we do about this? i mean, surely we need these authorities to record data accurately. that's clearly something that matters. >> matters. it matters >> it matters. it matters a great deal . i >> it matters. it matters a great deal. i think at the moment . i mean, this this policy moment. i mean, this this policy is live now , but it will be is live now, but it will be fully implemented in february of next year . so, you know, we've next year. so, you know, we've got a 2 or 3 month window of opportunity to apply as much political pressure as possible to get this changed. yeah well, good luck with it.

>> kate comber thank you so much for joining me tonight. >> kate comber thank you so much for joining me tonight . and forjoining me tonight. and coming up next on free speech nation, it'll be time for our monthly culture roundup with historian and writer david oldroyd bolt . see you in oldroyd bolt. see you in a couple of minutes .

welcome back to free speech nation. it's time now for our monthly look at culture and the arts with historian and writer david oldroyd bolt, who . so, david oldroyd bolt, who. so, david, welcome back . always david, welcome back. always a pleasure to talk to you. what's been happening this month? >> well, the poet benjamin zephaniah has died aged 65 very shortly after being diagnosed with a brain tumour. and zephaniah is probably most zephaniah is probably the most important black poet and writer in britain of the past half century. mean, really century. i mean, he really brought poetry, performance poetry public poetry into public consciousness. he was a fascinating story. he was born

in birmingham and he was one of eight children in an abusive family. when his mother escaped, he was the only child to go with her. his mother had been beaten often by his father, and they had to essentially go from place to place to escape his father. he was involved in crime as a child, went to borstal and then was to prison was later sentenced to prison for burglary and was functionally illiterate until he was in his early 20s. incredible from childhood, had begun writing poetry in his head and he once said that being a poet in birmingham as an 11 year old black kid at that time was as difficult as coming out as gay and when you found another poet, it was something he would talk about a sort something about and a sort of something that he would say, you know, show me mine. i'll show you yours, as it were. and there was one his lines, which is i one of his lines, which is i used think nurses were women. used to think nurses were women. i think police were men. i used to think police were men. i used to think police were men. iused i used to think police were men. i used to think police were men. i used to poets were i used to think police were men. i used until poets were i used to think police were men. i used until i poets were i used to think police were men. i used until i became nere i used to think police were men. i used until i became one of boring until i became one of them. think shows there them. yes i think shows there was cultural clash within was that cultural clash within himself about it. >> was one of those poets

>> he was one of those poets that you would always on that you would always see on mainstream was mainstream television. he was very he did. very visible about it. he did. he lot of good for the he did a lot of good for the idea of poetry, which became very, you say, people thought very, as you say, people thought it boring even himself. it was boring even himself. >> bringing young black >> and for bringing young black men into the idea of literacy and engagement literacy, he and engagement with literacy, he wrote novels specifically and engagement with literacy, he wrappeal novels specifically and engagement with literacy, he wr appeal to yvels specifically and engagement with literacy, he wr appeal to that specifically and engagement with literacy, he wr appeal to that audience.ly to appeal to that audience. yes. and he himself, as and because he himself, as i say, been functionally say, had been functionally illiterate his early 20s, illiterate until his early 20s, when and went when he moved to london and went to school in to night school in newham in east london. very east london. he was very concerned with the fact that poor boys, particularly poor black much more black boys, were much more likely be illiterate much likely to be illiterate and much more to be more likely, therefore to be disengaged generally. a very sad loss. what >> yes, a very sad loss. what else has been happening this month you're particularly month that you're particularly interested in? >> again, talking interested in? >>identity again, talking interested in? >>identity in again, talking interested in? >>identity in the again, talking interested in? >>identity in the arts,1, talking of identity in the arts, there is a film about to be released on netflix called maestro about the consequential figure in the most consequential figure in american music. leonard bernstein bernstein bernstein and leonard bernstein was or a composer, a was a conductor or a composer, a pianist. i'm sure your viewers will know his works, particularly west side story. yes, of course. was an yes, of course. which was an enormous hit. and he also wrote on the waterfront and on the town and candide and the chichester psalms and the age of

anxiety on and on at anxiety. it goes on and on at every point in american history. after was there at after the war, he was there at the funeral jfk. conducted the funeral of jfk. he conducted mahler's symphony. mahler's resurrection symphony. yes in israel after the six—day war, conducted in berlin war, he conducted in berlin after the fall of the berlin wall. was there. he was this wall. he was there. he was this enormous figure. >> of those composers >> he's one of those composers who of cross the who can really sort of cross the boundanes who can really sort of cross the boundaries between real high art and popular culture. mean, and popular culture. i mean, west story, we all west side story, we can all hum the tunes, there's the tunes, but there's incredibly complex. similarly the tunes, but there's increcandide,1plex. similarly the tunes, but there's increcandide, exceptionalarly the tunes, but there's increcandide, exceptional music . with candide, exceptional music. >> i mean, it is music of the very highest artistic standard. he was pilloried by some because they selling they thought he was selling himself actually what himself out. but actually what he bringing truly he was doing was bringing truly great music to people everywhere . i mean, the film of west side story must have been seen by, i don't know, a billion, 2 billion people now since its release. >> and of course, a new version by steven spielberg as well. very much so. what what has been the controversy the latest the controversy with the latest film? it hasn't gone film? because it hasn't gone smoothly, it? smoothly, has it? >> there has been some idea. >> no, there has been some idea. bradley stars as bradley cooper, the who stars as bernstein director, bernstein and is the director, decided was going to decided that he was going to wear a prosthetic nose to make

himself like bernstein himself look more like bernstein , look at photos , who, if you look at the photos of him, a very large nose. of him, had a very large nose. yes. but there are some particularly jewish people who have decided that this was akin to blackface. they've called it jew face. so tracy oberman, jew face. so tracy ann oberman, the and the editor of the actor here and the editor of the actor here and the editor of the jewish chronicle, jake wallis have both said wallis simons, have both said that they thought that this was unnecessary, he should have unnecessary, that he should have acted as bernstein without needing . however, needing to wear it. however, others, bernstein , others, including bernstein, three children, have said that they this part they thought that this was part of becoming the character. they had no problem it at all, had no problem with it at all, and they didn't consider it a sort of racist thing. >> i mean, i understand both sides of the argument in that respect, but but think when respect, but but i do think when it things like that, it comes to things like that, it's to me that the it's quite clear to me that the actor was doing his utmost to look and to resemble as closely as i mean, as possible. bernstein i mean, i think can agree he wasn't think we can all agree he wasn't going out his cause offence. >> yes. he wasn't doing what old productions of the merchant of venice portraying venice did and portraying shylock this enormous, shylock with this enormous, grotesque obviously grotesque and obviously caricatured was caricatured nose. yes, this was not jewish not some general jewish character. signify character. the nose signify jewishness. likeness

character. the nose signify je\ashness. likeness character. the nose signify je\a man.s. likeness character. the nose signify je\a man who likeness character. the nose signify je\a man who existed likeness character. the nose signify je\a man who existed andzness character. the nose signify je\a man who existed and looked of a man who existed and looked like this. and i think, therefore, there the artistic therefore, there is the artistic case being case for it. of course, being aware sensitivities. but the aware of sensitivities. but the fact that bernstein's own children who are jewish have given imprimatur, given it their imprimatur, i think shows that it's fine. there's of charleton that there's a lot of charleton that we have these debates surrounding particularly works of culture when the of popular culture when the movies, instance, things movies, for instance, things like that. >> do you think that this detracts from these works of art? i we get into these debates, it can overshadow it. >> and the other thing that's been criticised about the film by people have praised it in by people who have praised it in general is that concentrates general is that it concentrates too bernstein's private too much on bernstein's private life. an absolutely life. he was an absolutely flagrantly and his wife flagrantly bisexual and his wife was very much hurt by this, as opposed to concentrating on the enormous effect of his music making and his educational programs and so on. >> it is a biopic, isn't it? >> but it is a biopic, isn't it? >> but it is a biopic, isn't it? >> this is a story for the >> yeah, this is a story for the cinema, think it is, from what cinema, i think it is, from what i've seen far. obviously it's i've seen so far. obviously it's not out yet. it's out on december, the 20th on netflix. it to his story, but it is faithful to his story, but there some human there has to be some human interest, it were. it can't

interest, as it were. it can't just be a documentary because they already. absolutely. just be a documentary because the david already. absolutely. just be a documentary because the david oldroyd absolutely. just be a documentary because the david oldroyd bolt, lutely. a >> david oldroyd bolt, always a pleasure. thank you . pleasure. thank you. thank you. so this is the end of the first hour on free speech nation. very sad. but don't go anywhere because there is a lot more to come between now and 9:00, including barrister dennis kavanagh, who joins me to discuss trans ideology discuss whether trans ideology is a threat to gay kids. discuss whether trans ideology is a threat to gay kids . and is a threat to gay kids. and also the editor of spiked magazine, tom slater, who's going to be discussing new going to be discussing a new danish law that prohibits the burning of religious books. see you shortly . a brighter outlook you shortly. a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello, welcome to your latest gb news weather. >> i'm ellie glaisyer. gb news weather. >> i'm ellie glaisyer . unsettled >> i'm ellie glaisyer. unsettled weather continues as low pressure remains very much in charge of our weather over the next couple of days. storm fergus situated out to the west, slowly moves its way towards us through evening and into through sunday evening and into the start of monday, bringing with very with it some very heavy rainfall, particularly to

northern of england where northern parts of england where the ground is already very saturated. could some saturated. so we could see some localised flooding through the early monday morning. early hours of monday morning. some winds some strong winds too, particularly across western wales through the bristol wales and through the bristol channel wales and through the bristol channel, see channel, where we could see gusts miles an hour. gusts up to 60 miles an hour. temperatures in the south generally around 7 or 8 degrees. but a much colder night across northern parts of scotland where we see icy we could see some icy conditions, particularly across we could see some icy con southwest rticularly across we could see some icy con southwest of ularly across we could see some icy con southwest of scotland oss the southwest of scotland through morning . a cloudy through monday morning. a cloudy start across the northern half of the uk on monday. some showers continuing along those eastern coast of scotland, but generally will be a much generally monday will be a much more most of us. more settled day for most of us. plenty sunshine head plenty of sunshine as we head through afternoon and with through the afternoon and with some lighter winds, temperatures around degrees across around 10 to 12 degrees across the feeling the south. it'll be feeling a little more pleasant we've the south. it'll be feeling a little over; pleasant we've the south. it'll be feeling a little over recent ant we've the south. it'll be feeling a little over recent days we've the south. it'll be feeling a little over recent days . we've the south. it'll be feeling a little over recent days . tuesday seen over recent days. tuesday starts a much cloudier picture, though. rain continues to push its way northwards through tuesday morning, again bringing us some very heavy rainfall to eastern parts of scotland where, again, we could see some localised flooding to that localised flooding due to that saturated further south, saturated ground. further south, obe, of heavy showers

obe, plenty of heavy showers pushing in from the southwest and a blustery feeling day and quite a blustery feeling day to remaining unsettled through tuesday and wednesday. but hints of something a little more settled on horizon settled are on the horizon through and friday. through thursday and friday. that a warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> there is plenty more still to come on free speech nation tonight, the media are calling male rapists female again, dennis kavanagh joins me to discuss whether trans ideology is a threat to gay kids. spiked editor tom slater will discuss a new danish law that prohibits the burning of religious books. but first, let's get a news update from sophia .

update from sophia. >> good evening. i'm sophia wenzler in the newsroom. gb news understands. tomorrow tory mps will give their verdict on whether the rwanda bill is workable. can servative mp sir bill cash will present the findings ahead of the crunch. second vote on tuesday. the prime minister has come under pressure after it was discovered he paid £240 million towards the rwanda plan without a single flight taking off. tory sources say the mps will decide whether to support the legislation tomorrow or if necessary, hold a second meeting ahead of the vote . met police say two teenage girls have been arrested on suspicion of robbery after a woman was attacked in london. a warning this video shows distressing images. footage of the attack has been circulating on social media showing the 20 year old walking in stamford hill and then being robbed and beaten. the woman who is from the orthodox jewish community was reportedly left bruised but didn't need to go to hospital .

didn't need to go to hospital. met. police say it's keeping an open mind about the motive for the attack, are treating it the attack, but are treating it as possible hate crime . as a possible hate crime. mcdonald's has apologised after footage posted on social media showed a security guard mopping the floor where a homeless man was sitting . the video was taken was sitting. the video was taken on victoria street in london last night and shows the man trying to move his sleeping bag and duvet away from the water as it seeped underneath . in the it seeped underneath. in the video, he says , leave me alone video, he says, leave me alone before one security guard kicks a blanket out of the way and splashes more water along the pavement . mcdonald's said it was pavement. mcdonald's said it was shocked and saddened by the footage . baroness michelle mone footage. baroness michelle mone says she made an error in publicly denying her links to the ppe firm medpro . it was the ppe firm medpro. it was awarded government contracts worth more than £200 million to supply personal protective equipment after she recommended it to ministers. the national crime agency is investigating the firm and its connection to the firm and its connection to the conservative peer lady mone

argues she is