these mp5 rwanda vote. without these mps on board, the bill will surely fail. we'll bring you the verdict this very hour. >> boris under the bus . verdict this very hour. >> boris under the bus. has verdict this very hour. >> boris under the bus . has the >> boris under the bus. has the prime minister thrown his predecessor under the proverbial bus? predecessor under the proverbial bus.7 well, predecessor under the proverbial bus? well, rishi sunak is facing a grilling from the covid inquiry today , and he's been inquiry today, and he's been talking about that first lockdown. we'll have the very latest as sunak allegedly claims that boris johnson was the ultimate sole decision maker regarding covid policy . regarding covid policy. >> and what's for next nige after taking the bronze in the jungle, gb news is nigel farage hints of a return to frontline politics, launching scathing attacks on both the leadership of the conservatives and the labour party. could he launch a third comeback . third comeback. and of course, as we speak, that meeting of those five different groups represent getting 100

conservative backbench members described to be perhaps on the right of the party. >> these include groups like the european research group, the growth group and edx and the new conservatives group as well. common sense, the common sense group as well. but crucially, we're going to hear their verdict this hour in terms of whether or not these groups will all act as one. no doubt there'll be some people that take different views, but the leadership of these groups really matters comes to really matters when it comes to tomorrow's vote. could it could it undermine the entire process or might they be playing a longer game? >> yes. and they've got this group of lawyers who have been looking at the legislation line by line, deciding whether it is watertight enough and whether it will deal with the issue of stopping the boats. it seems as though they're saying that it won't. but that doesn't mean the mps won't still vote through this legislation , but they will this legislation, but they will be deciding today ahead of tomorrow's vote. >> absolutely. and there is a third a middle option here,

third way, a middle option here, not to vote against it or not just to vote against it or vote for it. they could abstain or they could have sought assurance from the government to vote for it at what's known as second reading and then change it when it gets to committee stage report stage in the house of commons. could they tighten it after the vote? so much to it up after the vote? so much to discuss there and we'll be live in parliament with the verdict of all of these groups this very houn >> and of course, rishi sunak, he's busy in the covid inquiry while all of this is going on behind his back. while all of this is going on behind his back . and this could behind his back. and this could behind his back. and this could be crunch time, not only for rwanda, but for his premiership. >> well, we'll get to all of that after your bulletins with . tamsin >> tom, thank you and good afternoon from the gb newsroom. it's 12:02. the prime minister it's12:02. the prime minister has defended what he called vigorous debate among senior government figures during the pandemic , saying it was pandemic, saying it was appropriate when undertake such

consequential decisions . rishi consequential decisions. rishi sunak began giving evidence at the covid inquiry with an apology to those who lost loved ones. however, he played down suggestions by hugo keith kc that severe, inefficient cases in downing street had led to a chaotic style of governance . chaotic style of governance. >> were you aware , sir, that his >> were you aware, sir, that his closest advisers had seemingly unanimously taken the view that there was a lack of efficiency ? there was a lack of efficiency? the has described privately as brutal and useless or criminally incompetent or operationally chaotic? >> the fact that there was debate and that people were passionate about it and they had different points of view is, i think, a unsurprising and be good because it would be worse if we were having this conversation and all the commentary was, well , there was commentary was, well, there was no debate about any of this whatsoever, and it was all just signed off straightforward. someone paper ,

someone put a piece of paper, someone checked, was someone checked, and that was the it. think someone checked, and that was the would it. think someone checked, and that was the would actually it. think someone checked, and that was the would actually be think someone checked, and that was the would actually be farhink that would actually be far worse, frankly. it's worse, quite frankly. so it's good that was debate about good that there was debate about these . these things. >> gb news understands five groups of tory backbenchers will give their verdict shortly on the government's plan to send migrants to rwanda. that is the bill heads for a crunch vote tomorrow in what's set to be an important week for the prime minister, gary lineker is among several high profile personnel cities who've signed a letter describing the policy as uncaring, chaotic and costly. defence secretary grant shapps says he should stick to football i >> -- >> what is moral about allowing criminal gangs to put people's lives at risk for large sums of money by trafficking and trafficking them across the engush trafficking them across the english channel? what on earth has got into anyone's minds to think that we shouldn't challenge or tackle that disgusting trade in human misery and so again, unless he, labour or anyone else have got a better

plan, at least we're putting plans in place which are starting to have success slashed by a third and would do more in the future. >> parents and teachers say the regulation of schools should be more transparent and less high stakes according to a new report. it found that 42% of parents support more transparency in how ofsted judges schools with respondents also in favour of more frequent inspections. the report by policy consultancy public first comes after a coroner found that an ofsted inspection likely contributed to the death of headteacher ruth perry . the headteacher ruth perry. the united nations is experiencing one of its worst funding shortfalls in years , after just shortfalls in years, after just over a third of its required food aid budget was provided last year. humana sectarian cnses last year. humana sectarian crises were estimated to cost around $57 billion over the last 12 months, as conflicts in gaza and ukraine worsened . however, and ukraine worsened. however,

after receiving just a fraction of that amount, after receiving just a fraction of that amount , the un is now of that amount, the un is now lowering its expectation for the year ahead . with today's appeal year ahead. with today's appeal for $46 billion. aid chiefs say it's difficult to decrease aid budgets amid intensifying global conflicts while staying realistic about what's needed . realistic about what's needed. meanwhile israel's war against hamas is pressing ahead amid warnings that conditions in gaza are worsening . the world health are worsening. the world health organisation says the catastrophic humanitarian situation in gaza is becoming almost impossible to resolve. officials say the un is likely to vote tomorrow on a draft resolution that would demand a ceasefire . taxes have soared to ceasefire. taxes have soared to the highest rate on record , the highest rate on record, raising concerns over britain's ability to attract business and investment . mint new data shows investment. mint new data shows property taxes are among the highest across the developed world, with the office for budget responsibility signalling

further hikes to come . a further hikes to come. a spokesperson for the treasury insists the uk remains competitive . iv but labour says competitive. iv but labour says taxpayers are being punished for the government's economic failures . the government's economic failures. dengue the government's economic failures . dengue fever could failures. dengue fever could become a national domestic disease in england by 2060 because of climate change. government health experts say warmer conditions are to blame for the spread of the asian tiger mosquito , known for its tiger mosquito, known for its potential of the spread of the disease. the uk health security agency warns the mosquito could become commonplace across england over the next 2 to 3 decades. officials say warmer weather brings a higher risk of several diseases and more pandemics . several diseases and more pandemics. now, if you're driving home for christmas, experts say you'd better plan ahead. experts say you'd better plan ahead . with christmas falling on ahead. with christmas falling on ahead. with christmas falling on a monday this year, the aa predicts friday, the 27 and saturday, the 23rd to be the busiest days for traffic around

16.1 million car journeys busiest days for traffic around 16.1 million carjourneys are expected to take place across the uk during the festive weekend this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car on digital radio and on your smart speaker . just say play gb news speaker. just say play gb news now . now back to tom speaker. just say play gb news now. now back to tom and . emily now. now back to tom and. emily >> well, as we were discussing , >> well, as we were discussing, as the prime minister gives evidence at the covid inquiry pressure is building from his own mps over the controversial rwanda plan. >> yes, rishi sunak faces a crunch vote in parliament tomorrow where both the left and indeed the right wings of his own party have threatened to derail this vote. >> huge amounts going on. let's get the very latest from our political editor, christopher hope, who is live from westminster . christopher. great westminster. christopher. great to see you. can you bring us the latest? you've been documenting who are going who which tory mps are going into this meeting to decide to decide what to do when it comes

to this legislation ? ian to this legislation? ian >> yeah, that's back here for this for this bulletin, for your show . tom and emily yeah , sir. show. tom and emily yeah, sir. bill cash arrived with a with a manilla folder which is covered up from the cameras and peeping toms like me, which in there contains the 12 page or ten page assessment of the so—called star chamber group of tory mps, right wing tory mps . they are working wing tory mps. they are working out whether this rwanda bill can stop the boats. mark francois . stop the boats. mark francois. told gb news earlier today that if he can't stop the boats and that's an absolute position, not reduce by stop them reduce them by 30, stop them then very hard to how then it's very hard to see how then it's very hard to see how the support following the mps can support it following him to him was mark francois. the mps can support it following him to him was mark francois . as him to him was mark francois. as i said, he's a chairman of the european research group of tory mps. richard drax mp, first in there from the right. 100 there from the right. around 100 mps be meeting there. mps are due to be meeting there. we're a statement on we're expecting a statement on camera at 12:45 pm, which of course will bring to you as soon as we can on gb news. if not then or at 1:00 and no question rishi sunak the pm is in the

wrong place today. he's in paddington discussing his time as chancellor when he was trying to deal with the pandemic and eat out to help out the furlough scheme, keeping lots of lots of businesses ticking over while they were putting into hibernation during that dreadful time for so many people . but time for so many people. but really future has been being really his future has been being decided not at the inquiry , but decided not at the inquiry, but right now in westminster , where right now in westminster, where mps, if enough vote against this tomorrow, more than 28, it will be the first government defeat on second reading a bill in on second reading at a bill in in nearly 30 years. more likely is abstentions and amending right now. this lunchtime policy exchange , a right wing think exchange, a right wing think tank, has published a list of amendments that could be made to make rwanda the rwanda bill work . i think mps will be looking at very the why. very closely the reason why. finally, they've finally, tom and emily, they've decided right now come out decided right now to come out with verdict. the right decided right now to come out with is verdict. the right decided right now to come out with is they rdict. the right decided right now to come out with is they want the right decided right now to come out with is they want 363 right decided right now to come out with is they want 36 hours to wing is they want 36 hours to negotiate it with the government. the vote is tomorrow night, p.m, government. the vote is tomorrow night, pm, the next 36 hours night, 7 pm, the next 36 hours are crucial for the immediate future of this government . future of this government. >> but it's fascinating to look

at what's happening over the last two days. a frantic ring round operation from tory whips and these two new migrant ministers in the home office . s ministers in the home office. s christopher, what's your understanding in terms of what the government has been saying to these 100 or so mps ? who to these 100 or so mps? who could be the difference between this bill passing and it failing ? what are they offering . ? what are they offering. >> well, tom, yeah, it's not just these 100 right wingers, but it's the 100 on the left of the party. the tory party divided into three left, right and in the middle about 100 each or the tonight or so. the 100 tonight are meeting. called the one meeting. they're called the one nafion meeting. they're called the one nation caucus . now they're nation caucus. now they're concerned goes too far. the concerned it goes too far. the other away from the other way, moving away from the protection of the echr and human rights. let's leave that for later on. no but right now, the right that's right. right wingers. that's right. they've been offered no doubt. i mean , this is what will have mean, this is what will have happened. i don't know for sure, mean, this is what will have hap typically don't know for sure, mean, this is what will have hap typically offered ow for sure, mean, this is what will have hap typically offered preferment but typically offered preferment in in future if there are reshuffle future jobs come up. chancellor there may be a knighthood. if you're a senior

mp leaving parliament a damehood for the female tory mps leaving parliament just to show loyalty. there's of in the there's all sorts of in the bottom drawer of the whips , tom bottom drawer of the whips, tom and emily. are all sorts and emily. there are all sorts of presents they can offer out. it is christmas all, but it is christmas after all, but the they want to is the what they want to get is a big number, a big number supporting this bill. because as you know, tom, you're a student of politics like i am without a massive majority supporting it. a second reading appears in the house of lords. we haven't even discussed them. they will feel emboldened to amend this change, this bill, water it down as much as they can. the government needs a massive majority tomorrow to make it work , and tomorrow to make it work, and it's even at this stage. >> it's slightly unfortunate for the prime minister that he's stuck at the covid inquiry. surely he should be out schmoozing backbench mps to schmoozing his backbench mps to try and make sure that they vote with tomorrow . with him tomorrow. >> well, there's no question he'll be watching your report at 1:00 today on our channel trying to find out what happened. what are about it? what are we saying about it? what next? should be here and

next? he should be here and wants to be here, but he can't be. to respect the be. he's got to respect the covid inquiry. of course, him appearing today is right because bofis appearing today is right because boris johnson appeared on the last two sitting days of inquiry wednesday , thursday last week. wednesday, thursday last week. it's quite natural that sunak is the next one because was he the next one because he was he was chancellor to boris. pm was the chancellor to boris. pm dunng was the chancellor to boris. pm during the pandemic. so quite normal that this should happen. of course the government chooses when it has a vote itself. the government had government could have had this published this bill. could they ? published this bill. could they? three weeks ago when that supreme ruling came out supreme court ruling came out instead they instead they weren't. they appeared to be caught, caught, surprised by and they've surprised by that. and they've waited weeks more , more, waited three weeks more, more, more time ticking. and the deaduneis more time ticking. and the deadline is may next year when the pm has told us repeatedly thatis the pm has told us repeatedly that is when these planes will take off with rwandan asylum seekers , as there is not a lot seekers, as there is not a lot of time left . they're going to of time left. they're going to go through the amendment stage in then the in the new year. then it's the house there's all house of lords. then there's all sorts , whether sorts of recesses, whether whether there's time or not. we'll whether there's time or not. we'well, chris, we'll let you >> well, chris, we'll let you scurry quickly back to portcullis house on the

parliamentary estate to press your ear against that door to the committee room and hear what's going on. we'll also be live there in parliament in around half an hour's time for the verdict . it's all happening the verdict. it's all happening here. for chris, now, thank here. but for chris, now, thank you joining us and you so much forjoining us and updating us. yes >> we're now joined by the political correspondent for the spectator magazine, james hale. james, thank you very much for joining us. you just what joining us. you just heard what christopher had to you christopher hope had to say. you know movers and shakers know all the movers and shakers in . what have you in westminster. what have you heard? does it look like they're leaning towards of leaning towards this group of 100 odd are they leaning 100 odd mps? are they leaning towards legislation towards backing this legislation down? well i think what's really indicative is what chris was saying there about the policy exchange report, which actually does recommend amending the bill, but backing it tomorrow at second reading. >> and i think that's the conversation that's currently going chris they're going on. as chris said, they're no government has been defeated on a second reading of a bill since 1986. that was the only time working majority time where the working majority in century that was on in the 20th century that was on sunday favourite

sunday trading. tom's favourite basically. that suggests that i think the hope is try and get it through the next week, try and get second get it through the second reading after reading and then come back after christmas after a long break. much needed break some of much needed break for some of those they those tory troops and they can try there are two try and amend it. there are two bits of news have just occurred to 20 minutes or to me in the past 20 minutes or so. is that rishi sunak is so. one is that rishi sunak is expected a number 10. expected to hold a number 10. salman salmon charm salman smoked salmon charm offensive for some of his mps tomorrow. that was what you'd expect tuesday morning, just tomorrow. that was what you'd expec'hoursjesday morning, just tomorrow. that was what you'd expec'hours ahead morning, just tomorrow. that was what you'd expec'hours ahead of)rning, just tomorrow. that was what you'd expec'hours ahead of that g, just tomorrow. that was what you'd expec'hours ahead of that vote ;t a few hours ahead of that vote in the second in the evening. and the second piece of news is that the government expecting government is now expecting to pubush government is now expecting to publish later publish its legal advice later today. unusual today. that's an unusual step, but willing but it shows just how willing number 10 is to try and calm some of those fears. and the tory right about how strong this legislation is and actually that it's going to work because there's been of talk. will there's been a lot of talk. will it the bill won't it work? will the bill won't work legal work by publishing this legal advice, to advice, the government will to hope the waverers that hope convince the waverers that actually along actually they should go along with that the erg star with them and that the erg star chamber isn't the be end all. >> it's a huge and unusual step for the government to publish this legal advice. i remember many, many rows over, many

pieces of legal advice on many different policy areas where the government's stock line will be legal advice confidential. legal advice is confidential. we don't this . this is a big don't share this. this is a big step government not to step for the government not to be taking. are they worried ? be taking. are they worried? >> well, quite. and i think what's really overhanging all of this debate is the uncertainty because we are in such novel, constitute waters here. i think actually , although there were a actually, although there were a lot of lawyers that were critical government's critical of the government's plans they out plans when they were set out last wednesday, the legal migration changes, actually, a lot were saying, frankly migration changes, actually, a l

24, 36 hours are helpful ones and mps are lining up to back their bill rather than turn against it. >> thank >> well, thank you very much indeed. there. indeed. james hill there. political correspondent for the spectator . i believe we're going spectator. i believe we're going straight christopher straight back to christopher hope, who's hope, our political editor who's in for christopher. in westminster for christopher. what you for us? what have you got for us? >> yeah, emily, tom, the morning lobby meeting is broken up. that's the spokesman for the prime minister. briefs mps in westminster . the government's westminster. the government's disclosed that this afternoon. they are publishing the legal advice underlying its rwanda bill. they're going to try and take go toe to toe with tory mps on the right of the party with its star chamber verdict. that's lawyers. its verdict on whether rwanda works. they're going to put out there their countering legal advice so the two documents can be compared side by this is absolute in the by side. this is absolute in the world of westminster, a degree of warfare breaking out between the two lawyers on different sides. ahead of tomorrow. it really is a beefing up to be quite a big afternoon, i think, in politics today . in politics today. >> it is worth underlining

>> and it is worth underlining this point. i remember that geoffrey legal advice over geoffrey cox, legal advice over the , the rails, the the brexit deal, the rails, the weeks of consternation about whether or not that should be published the government in published and the government in the end doing this half house sort of doing summary sort of doing the summary publishing, is it your understanding the government is not publish not going to just publish a summary advice, but the summary of this advice, but the advice full? that would be advice in full? that would be a very remarkably unusual step , very remarkably unusual step, and that's not happening for that reason. >> tom that never happens really . we get summaries even . >> tom that never happens really . we get summaries even. i'm an old enough to remember the iraq war in 2003. that was a summary of legal advice, and that went through lots iterations with through lots of iterations with freedom of information battles. but this very happens. but this very rarely happens. viewers understand this viewers should understand this almost . you see it almost never happens. you see it dunng almost never happens. you see it during the brexit battles. you saw the iraq war on big, massive issues for the government when they want to win round recalcitrant mps, they do this. this is a very rare moment, but it shows to me the seriousness with which they're taking the risk of losing tomorrow. that's what's happening here. this is a

government , a government going government, a government going to win. emily tom wouldn't to win. emily and tom wouldn't be yes. and we'll be speaking to >> yes. and we'll be speaking to a lawyer later in the show, i believe, because it's so believe, to see, because it's so hard which is the hard to know which is the correct interpretation of this legislation. will it stop the boats? much boats? thank you very much indeed. our gb indeed. christopher hope, our gb news editor. news political editor. >> we should underline, >> and we should underline, it's less half now less than half an hour now until we live outside that we will be live outside that committee room in parliament with the verdict of these five groups of conservative mps. stay with us. it's an electric day in westminster today. >> yes . and of course, the covid >> yes. and of course, the covid inquiry continues. the prime minister hot seat minister is taking the hot seat today formally, of course, the chancellor the time, rishi chancellor at the time, rishi sunak, has been giving advice throughout morning. throughout the morning. >> reporter ray >> well, our reporter ray addison us outside addison is live for us outside the inquiry. and ray, what have we ? we learned? >> well, rishi sunak started off this morning by saying he wanted to make a brief opening statement expressing how deeply sorry that he was for those who had lost loved ones or suffered dunng had lost loved ones or suffered during the pandemic. he said he'd thought about it a lot over

the last two years, and he said that today he would be giving his evidence in the spirit of constructive candour. now, of course, with a questioning actually started with the issue of the prime minister's missing whatsapp messages. he had been asked to provide whatsapp messages from his various mobile phones during the time period and hadn't been able to do so. he this was all dealt with actually fairly quickly . he actually fairly quickly. he explained that he wasn't actually a prolific user of whatsapp any way and he hadn't actually sent many during the pandemic. he also said he changed his phone multiple times and he just didn't have the messages backed up. he also pointed out that notes were formerly recorded during the meeting. so mr sunak said it didn't really matter that he didn't really matter that he didn't messages. now, didn't have those messages. now, he pressed on he wasn't massively pressed on this, although he was asked by the kc leading the inquiry there whether he had ever received any advice or been told by any government officials that he should preserve those messages . should preserve those messages. and he said he did not recall

being given that information. now, one of the key issues that he was answering questions on today was the impact of decision making on the economy and public health. of course, we know that he's faced accusations in the past. he's been criticised for prioritising the economy over the health of the population. the eat out to help out scheme as well being a key element of that. as well being a key element of that . he said as well being a key element of that. he said that most of the discussion about impacts on the economy actually happened after the first lockdown as they had more data to look at and review and that actually increased over time. he said it was his constitutional responsibility to provide advice to the prime minister on the financial impact and that was where he would keep his focus during that advice . his focus during that advice. and he also said it was very hard to correctly predict any impact before that first lockdown, but they had a lot more to go on afterwards . so

more to go on afterwards. so some some people might say the biggest mistakes were made in that bumpy period around the second half lockdown and the third lockdown. >> no doubt there'll be more on this afternoon. but this later this afternoon. but for now, ray, thank you so much for now, ray, thank you so much for latest for bringing us the very latest there the covid there from outside the covid inquiry. yes. >> the w.- >> now after the break, we'll bnng >> now after the break, we'll bring you more on the rwanda scheme. the minister's scheme. the prime minister's party whether party stand divided on whether they back flagship they should back the flagship bill in tomorrow's vote. what's going .

isabel monday to thursdays from

six till 930 . six till 930. >> welcome back. >> welcome back. >> and as promised, with all the noise surrounding the rwanda plan, we want to know what's going legally with this going on legally with this policy. going to ask what policy. we're going to ask what parts of the legislation this emergency legislation on rwanda are causing the legal problems for the government. well, to help answer that question is the barrister and writer stephen barrett and stephen, welcome back to the program. >> and i'm fascinated here because, course , we've heard because, of course, we've heard the verdict of this so—called star chamber of lawyers from these five groups of conservative mps . they're conservative mps. they're deliberating on that. we'll learn their own verdict on the legal advice in the next 20 minutes so. but on the other minutes or so. but on the other hand, we are now going to get this legal advice or a summary of it published by the government, suppose the government, which i suppose the argument will argue says makes this legislation work, makes it reduce the ability to appeal and

all the rest of it . i suppose all the rest of it. i suppose this is the fundamental feature of law. you get different interpretation options and there isn't always necessarily one easily arrival at truth . easily arrival at truth. >> no, that that's a very fair comment to say. >> no, that that's a very fair comment to say . and we've got comment to say. and we've got about 30 minutes before potentially look very silly and a bunch of people disagree with me. >> i've taken i've taken the line. i have with a degree of confidence that i'm right . and confidence that i'm right. and we've just had a very apposite heanng we've just had a very apposite hearing because it's not connect to the rwanda plan. but the government has been trying to set up what's called an immigration exemption to gdpr rules for a number of years. and it got the first attempt wrong and then it went away and it drafted a second attempt. and the court of appeal has just confirmed that got wrong confirmed that it got that wrong , too. doubt when the , too. so no doubt when the government went to those hearings, the government had received advice which the government may well publish in this instance, saying, oh, no ,

this instance, saying, oh, no, no, our legal advice is absolutely right. analysis no, our legal advice is atcorrect. right. analysis no, our legal advice is atcorrect. but1t. analysis no, our legal advice is atcorrect. but they analysis no, our legal advice is atcorrect. but they do nalysis no, our legal advice is atcorrect. but they do get sis is correct. but they do get things wrong. that's it's things wrong. and that's it's very to focus on that very important to focus on that because this an emergency because this is an emergency situation , ian, and you'd think situation, ian, and you'd think that there would more that there would be more collaboration than there is instead of sort of asking for help or taking a points on board or simply saying, oh, look, you know, we've had these legal comments. obviously we'll review them, we'll think about them. we've very defensive line we've had a very defensive line from government that from the government and that is inherently . you know, inherently curious. you know, i'm absolutely public. i have no position on this rwanda plan at all. all i've done is highlight some major concerns with it. concerns within uk law. and the obvious concern, the concern is so obvious with the european court of human rights that you'd need to ask the government, well, why are you restricting their ability to issue an injunction if you're not worried about them? and if you're worried about their ability to issue injunction , why you worried about their ability to issuworried unction , why you worried about their ability to issuworried about1 , why you worried about their ability to issuworried about their|y you worried about their ability to issuworried about their ability ou not worried about their ability to something after trial? to do something after a trial? and the point , you're and the final point, you're obviously be worried and the final point, you're obviotthem be worried and the final point, you're obviotthem . be worried and the final point, you're obviotthem . and be worried and the final point, you're obviotthem . and then vorried and the final point, you're obviotthem . and then the ed and the final point, you're

obviotthem . and then the prime about them. and then the prime minister speech minister went and gave a speech saying, do saying, well, if they do something , i'll act, then i will something, i'll act, then i will act now. >> i mean, stephen, the key the key here, what we all want to know is whether this legislation will stop. will end the merry go round, so—called of legal challenges. do you believe that? it has hoped that it can do that not as drafted , no, because it not as drafted, no, because it needs to change. >> stephen. >> stephen. >> stephen, what needs to change? >> they need to get rid of section four. section four gives individuals the right to say, oh, actually, i know rwanda's technically safe, but it's not safe for me. and then they can invent some complicated, convoluted reason why rwanda is not safe for them and that that is a massive problem. that's what i call the death by a thousand cuts problem. you think the echr would be a foreign court , you know, effectively court, you know, effectively coming in as a bigger power and saying and this this is just saying no, and this this is just procedural. will clog up procedural. this will clog up the existing processes . the existing processes. >> stephen, the government says to this , of course, that it

to this, of course, is that it would affect 0.5% of cases, would only affect 0.5% of cases, i.e. 99.5% of appeals would be rejected on the grounds of this legislation. that a number legislation. is that a number you ? you recognise? >> as no, and i think we're at the stage where we're just making numbers, making up numbers, which is never particularly helpful in law have been here on law and we have been here on other issues where numbers are suddenly just plucked out of the air, even if 99.5% of the appeals under section four are rejected, you still clogged up the system by having them. but it won't be. i mean, i think that's just a ludicrous figure. and it certainly doesn't reflect on our current acceptance rate. this country has a far higher acceptance rate than than comparator countries in western europe. so we are obviously letting things that letting more things through that . other countries do not let through. we are not rejecting people. would people. other countries would reject . so idea we're reject. so the idea that we're suddenly start suddenly going to start rejecting 99.5, i think that's just i think it's not it's an assertion that that is very difficult to find any evidence

for. so stephen, you believe we're bound to see many , many we're bound to see many, many legal challenges on the basis of this, on the basis of clause four, which allows individuals to appeal if there is in quotes, compelling evidence relating specifically to a person's individual circumstances . individual circumstances. >> and you think that will open up plenty of legal challenges, yes, that's the death by a thousand cuts, one, then we will see challenge very likely to see challenged the european court challenged in the european court of possibly of human rights, possibly potentially challenge potentially see challenge in the european justice and european court of justice and potentially see a major challenge to this because the drafting enough . drafting is not tight enough. >> mean want make it very >> mean want to make it very clear in agreement with clear that i'm in agreement with lord sumption wolfson lord sumption and lord wolfson that clauses work . that that ouster clauses work. but we've known since we started talking about ouster clauses that they have to be really well drafted. >> it's interesting because because lord sumption has said he believes that this bill would work. but you disagree there. you think that it might if it's tightened up, would you think that it might if it's tightened up , would therefore tightened up, would therefore the would therefore the conclusion of that be committee

stage, i.e. if the boat passes tomorrow at committee stage, there could be some amendments that actually make this bill, in your view , work potentially, your view, work potentially, although you wouldn't committee won't deal with the european court of human rights and it won't deal with the european court of justice. >> it's a policy >> but and it's a policy decision get rid of section decision to get rid of section four they need. four that they would need. i think beyond mere think that's beyond mere committee but if you committee drafting. but if you like, i've identified seven problems, four of them can be solved at committee stage and three of them can't. and that's the problem. >> that we see some >> it may be that we see some compromises changes compromises and changes on this bill. much bill. thank you very much indeed, barrett, indeed, stephen barrett, barrister and writer. thank you for time, always for your time, stephen. always appreciate it when we return, we will on faraj's exit will have more on faraj's exit from jungle and will he step from the jungle and will he step back into frontline politics? first, though, the news with townsend . townsend. >> thanks, emily. here are the headunes >> thanks, emily. here are the headlines at 1233. the prime minister has defended what he called a vigorous debate among senior government figures during

the pandemic. he said it was appropriate when making such significant decisions . as significant decisions. as earlier rishi sunak began his evidence at the covid inquiry with an apology to those who'd lost loved ones. however he played down suggestions by hugo keith, kc that severe inefficiencies in downing street had led to a chaotic style of governance . governance. >> were you governance. >> were you aware , governance. >> were you aware , sir, that his >> were you aware, sir, that his closest advisers had seemingly unanimously taken the view that there was a lack of efficiency ? there was a lack of efficiency? the administration has described privately as brutal and useless or criminally incompetent or operationally chaotic? >> the fact that there was debate and that people were passionate about it and they had different points of view is, i think, a unsurprising and be good because it would be worse if we were having this conversation and all the commentary was, well, there was no debate about any of this

whatsoever either. it was all just signed off, straightforward. someone put a piece paper, checked, piece of paper, someone checked, and last we heard and that was the last we heard of i that would of it. i think that would actually far worse. quite actually be far worse. quite frankly. that there actually be far worse. quite fran debate that there actually be far worse. quite fran debate about that there actually be far worse. quite fran debate about theset there actually be far worse. quite fran debate about these things . was debate about these things. >> government is expected to >> the government is expected to pubush >> the government is expected to publish legal advice on its plan to send migrants to rwanda in what's seen as an attempt to kerb dissent among tory mps. the unusual move comes as five groups of tory backbenchers prepare to give their verdict on the controversial policy soon. mps are expected to vote on the bill tomorrow . the united bill tomorrow. the united nafionsis bill tomorrow. the united nations is experience being one of its worst funding shortfalls in years amid worsening global conflicts . humanitarian crises conflicts. humanitarian crises were estimated to cost around $57 billion over the last 12 months. however after receiving just a fraction of that amount, the un is now lowering its expectation for the year ahead . expectation for the year ahead. well, those are the headlines and you can, of course get more

on all of those stories. just visit our website, gb news dot com . com. >> stay with us here on. good afternoon, britain. next up, can the hospitality sector ever forgive the government , the forgive the government, the economic damage they suffered dunng economic damage they suffered during the pandemic? we'll be speaking to one industry leader who has her doubts

sunday mornings from 930 on . gb

news. >> welcome back. i think it's time for some views, don't you? absolutely and lots of you have been getting in touch about our main top story, really of main story, top story, really of today, that's the rwanda today, and that's the rwanda plan, crunch, it's crunch today, and that's the rwanda plan, thisrnch, it's crunch today, and that's the rwanda plan, this legislationunch today, and that's the rwanda plan, this legislation ,1ch today, and that's the rwanda plan, this legislation , which time for this legislation, which is going to be voted on tomorrow . has written in. she . caroline has written in. she says, in my says, as i keep saying in my emails you , this government emails to you, this government keeps jerk reactions keeps making knee jerk reactions and that possibly will and policies that possibly will not stand up in court. who on earth with earth is providing them with legal advice? you think legal advice? you would think the crop legal the cream of the crop legal teams the prime teams work with the prime minister to ensure their policy ideas be fulfilled . ideas can actually be fulfilled. i mean, that's a good point. but as we were discussing before, interpretation of the law, that's what it's about . that's what it's about. >> i don't know if they were if they were spending millions and millions very millions of pounds on the very best world, best lawyers in the world, perhaps a of perhaps that would be a point of complaint well. has complaint as well. alex has written rwanda written in to say there rwanda plan distraction from plan is just a distraction from the approximately 2 million visas. the government issued visas. the government has issued in the last two years. well,

alex, i suppose the government would say, too, that they've now got ministers , one got to migration ministers, one for illegal and one for legal migration . two, that's a change migration. two, that's a change from about last week. >> yes, it was in the papers also today that number of also today that the number of student visas international student visas international student visas, almost 800,000 last year, which apparently the home office was comfortable with. so there you go . with. so there you go. >> well, joan has written in to say, our government slash parliament. you don't have to do any rwanda scheme. these people in invaded our country illegally . they must be thrown out of our country and deported . well, country and deported. well, joan, i think one of the issues is you need legal backing in to order deport people. so order deport people. and so that's why the government would argue that the legislation is required. yes. and also, you need somewhere to deport them, too. there are lots of human rights allows people rights law that allows people to appeal stewart says. >> gl g is no one says. >> is no one highlighting >> why is no one highlighting the fact that people are sent the fact that if people are sent to the cost to us will to rwanda, the cost to us will not stop. we will have to pay for their every living need in

rwanda is and never will be rwanda is not and never will be an answer to our immigration crisis. i wonder what proportion of the public are behind this policy now after all of the obstacles, after all of the long wait that we've had? well, you know what? >> we've seen different polls saying different things so often in polling, how you phrase the question , one can get completely question, one can get completely different . one of my different answers. one of my favourite examples of is favourite examples of this is actually about the voting age. if should we enable 16 if you ask, should we enable 16 and 17? should we give 16 and 17 year olds the right to vote ? year olds the right to vote? there's a majority in favour, but if you say should we lower the voting age to 16, you get a majority against. and it's entirely down to how you phrase the question sometimes are you calling the great british public silly? >> no , i'm saying that questions >> no, i'm saying that questions can be leading that leading questions , and it's very questions, and it's very important to get neutral questions when you ask these sorts of things. >> and sometimes on rwanda , you >> and sometimes on rwanda, you see what's known as push polling i >> -- >> yes, well, that's very interesting indeed. and just one nice from david. he says

nice one from david. he says he's our show . he's really enjoying our show. he his favourite. he says it's his favourite. well, watching and tell well, keep watching and tell your your friends and family. >> and remember, write in yourself if you have views or thoughts on anything we're discussing. gb views at gbnews.com is the address . gbnews.com is the address. >> yes. so prime minister >> yes. so the prime minister faces questioning today the covid rumbles on, covid inquiry rumbles on, starting off the inquiry with an apology to those who lost loved ones. >> the former chancellor also allegedly called dr. death . the allegedly called dr. death. the chancellor by some scientists, is being challenged over his much criticised eat out to help out scheme. >> this came as the uk's >> yes, this came as the uk's hospitality was hospitality industry was severely impacted forced severely impacted by forced closures the pandemic. of closures during the pandemic. of course joining is the course it was. joining us is the chief executive of uk hospitality, kate . nicholls. hospitality, kate. nicholls. kate thank you very much. thank you very much for joining us. a lot of focus in the evidence session today on the eat out to help out scheme. lots of people criticising could criticising it, saying it could have more covid and have led to more covid cases and potentially more lives lost. but

it was a bit of a lifeline for many ailing businesses, was it not? >> absolutely right. >> absolutely right. >> i think you have to put yourself back into the time that we were in and the pandemic. >> these businesses were impacted by lockdowns, but they also saw a drop off in footfall ahead of lockdowns. >> so for hospital city in the uk, they started to see a loss of earnings from february ahead of earnings from february ahead of the lockdown in march. >> and let's not forget, we had a week where the prime minister said do not go to pubs and restaurants before we into restaurants before we got into lockdown. so these businesses were closed for five months, unable to trade . when they unable to trade. when they reopened, they reopened with such tough trading restrictions that they could only operate at about 50% capacity and therefore operating at or below break even. so this scheme, together with the other support measures that the chancellor put in place to make sure that the hospitality sector survived was a vital shot in the arm. and let's not forget , the sector is let's not forget, the sector is the third largest private sector

employer in the uk, 3.5 million people depended on the sector for their jobs and livelihood, and it generates large amounts of tax and revenue for the exchequer. so really important that it got started again . and that it got started again. and it's not unfair to say that without that scheme we would have seen many tens of thousands of businesses fail and millions of businesses fail and millions ofjobs of businesses fail and millions of jobs lost . of jobs lost. >> do you think, though, that this was the best use of potentially billions of pounds of taxpayer money? the money could have gone in a more targeted way. it didn't have to subsidise people's eating . subsidise people's eating. didn't we see that as soon as lockdowns ended, perhaps the year afterwards, people didn't need subsidies to go back out and go to fantastic restaurants , and go to fantastic restaurants, bars, pubs and all the rest of it. people really wanted to go to those things. perhaps it was an unnecessary scheme . an unnecessary scheme. >> i wouldn't suggest that it was unnecessary at all. i think, again, you have to put yourself back in the mindset of july 2020, august 20th, 20, where we

didn't know we were going to go back into two more lockdowns tiers and restrictions. we didn't know we were going to have two years worth of covid where these businesses weren't trading and we were needing to get people back to being confident to go back out, not just into hospitality , but into just into hospitality, but into the high street, into town centres. retail also benefited and people were cautious and even with the schemes in place, you still only saw half of all people come back out before we went into lockdown again in november . so went into lockdown again in november. so it was went into lockdown again in november . so it was needed to be november. so it was needed to be able to get the economy restarted and to try and get growth going again. and it costs the exchequer it was anticipated to cost half a billion. it actually cost 800 million at the end of the scheme coming to an end of the scheme coming to an end . so it was a relatively end. so it was a relatively small proportion of the 39 billion put in to keep the economy going through that penod. economy going through that period . and there is no clear period. and there is no clear evidence at all to suggest that those 12 days in august when the

scheme was operating led to any increase in infection ons or cases being directly attributable to hospitality as soon as you reopen the economy, cases will tick up. but there's no evidence that those 12 days led to any large or sustained substantial increase . substantial increase. >> kate it's sometimes hard to take cast your mind back to that time with all the changing restrictions and all the different restrictions placed upon the hospitality industry . upon the hospitality industry. three from your experience and from speaking to people within the sector, what was the most nonsensical slash frustrating policy restriction at the time ? policy restriction at the time? >> well, there were many , but >> well, there were many, but some of them you could understand why they were put in place. the most nonsensical one was that you could sit and outside with a pork pie. you could drink or a scotch egg you could drink or a scotch egg you could drink, but you couldn't if you were not eating. and the substantial rule regulation was nonsensical. also the 9:00 curfew, the idea that if you

closed everything down at 9:00, you wouldn't have an impact on on case numbers. those two seem to have little evidence at least the eat out to help out scheme had the merits of being economically beneficial still, yes, it was a an odd time when government policy advisers seemed to believe that covid was nocturnal and only came out after after 9 pm. and very, very curious . very curious. >> scotch egg gate failed to understand that if you closed something down at 9:00, everyone would leave. >> everybody would be trying to get on the tube. well, sorry, we're going to have to cut it to cut it short there. >> but thank you very much indeed. nicholls, chief indeed. kate nicholls, chief executive of uk hospitality, thank time. thank you for your time. >> bonkers >> there were some bonkers rules, absolutely bonkers. my local tape over the local park put tape over the benches so you couldn't sit down on bench and on little on a bench and on those little outdoor workout centres, you know, if, you know a bit of know, as if, you know a bit of exercise we need exercise isn't what we all need anyway do what anyway. do you know what i think? it shouldn't have been eat help out. should eat out to help out. it should have been eat outside to help out rishi sunak out as well. rishi sunak advocated this policy walking

through like we knew that it was a airborne virus. by this point, if we'd have just encouraged people to go to their favourite pubs restaurants and pubs and restaurants and everything else but eat outside, probably would have been much, much better. >> i remember shiver ing in a park a takeaway once , park with a takeaway pint once, you times. you know, good times. >> in the winter made >> anyway, in the winter we made people outside in the cold >> anyway, in the winter we made pe0|in outside in the cold >> anyway, in the winter we made pe0|in the outside in the cold >> anyway, in the winter we made pe0|in the blazing in the cold >> anyway, in the winter we made pe0|in the blazing hot1e cold >> anyway, in the winter we made pe0|in the blazing hot summer. and in the blazing hot summer. we inside. yeah. we said, all go inside. yeah. >> know, we could have, >> you know, we could have, could have got on well that way anyway, it wasn't quite the outcome. hoped for. outcome. many had hoped for. nigel farage has ended his time in the jungle in third place nigel farage has ended his time in th> i'm already beginning to miss the sounds of the jungle. all the sounds of the jungle. all the crickets, the kookaburra , the crickets, the kookaburra, the crickets, the kookaburra, the cuckoos, the owls , the howls the cuckoos, the owls, the howls of creatures we've never heard from. to be honest, i spent 23 nights in there , and i loved nights in there, and i loved every single minute of it. it's

been the most unbelievable experience. and i would not for one moment say that i regret a single moment of it. great to be out , but i single moment of it. great to be out, but i really had a fantastic time. >> we spoke to biggins a few moments ago who said, for politicians, it's really, really hard, if not impossible, to win. so coming third is probably the best any politician really could hope for. do you feel disappointed or do you feel like third is actually, you know, quite achievement ? quite an achievement? >> do you know what i mean? look, if you said to me before this started that i'd make the final i'd go for the final bushtucker trial . i'd be buried bushtucker trial. i'd be buried underground with 20 snakes all over me that i come outwith, with, i hope, some degree of dignity . and come third, i'd dignity. and come third, i'd have bitten your arm off. so i'm delighted with the way that it turned out, thrilled that i got through to the last round, and i was the outsider the other 11 people that went in there were either professional sportsmen or people from pop music or popular

culture. i was the only one from the other side of the line that came from politics and current affairs . and i think to get affairs. and i think to get through and come third, i think for me it's been a real, real achievement. i am thrilled with it, delighted and want to thank everybody, particularly gb news, who i know and i've learnt now backed me all the way . so thank backed me all the way. so thank you everybody that supported me, that voted for me. i'm very, very grateful , very flattered very grateful, very flattered and very honoured . and very honoured. >> well, how are you going to consolidate that goodwill and turn it into two votes ? turn it into two votes? >> hahaha. >> hahaha. >> oh eamonn, you never give up do you ? the first thing i'm do you? the first thing i'm going to do is go out for dinner because i'm starving . because i'm starving. >> have you lost weight living on rice and beans for a couple of weeks? >> so i'm going to go out for dinner. and as for where life goes from here, i don't know. i

mean, i've almost for a month been away from the news. from what i can see. see, the so—called conservative government , i say so—called, government, i say so—called, because they're not in the least bit conservative, are in a state of total shambles, rudderless , of total shambles, rudderless, leaderless, utterly useless, headed for catastrophe . be at headed for catastrophe. be at the next election . deservedly so the next election. deservedly so . and that's not to say labour will be any more competent, but . will be any more competent, but. but somehow to think that i'm going to walk out of a jungle after 23 nights and announce a relaunch in british politics, frankly , is for the birds. frankly, is for the birds. >> it's a lot has happened whilst you've been in there. suella braverman's been sacked. your old nemesis, lord cameron, has into fold. lord now has come into the fold. lord now foreign secretary, we've also had net migration at three quarters of a million. so, so much for you digest there. much for you to digest there. but chatter and i'm but all the chatter and i'm getting impression from what getting the impression from what you've nonsense. getting the impression from what you've the nonsense. getting the impression from what you've the chatternonsense. getting the impression from what you've the chatter isnsense. getting the impression from what you've the chatter is that;e. getting the impression from what you've the chatter is that you but all the chatter is that you and boris could create some sort of pact to restore the chances

of pact to restore the chances of the conservatives. now, you and i have spoken about this in the past, and you felt quite wronged by boris in the past that he reneged on deal with that he reneged on a deal with you. does that it's never you. does that mean it's never going to happen again? no >> never say never , never say >> never say never, never say never.i >> never say never, never say never . i you know, i can't never. i you know, i can't predict right now what will happen or what i do think is that our country is being appal knowingly led, that there is no proper opposition party and that we're living through a population crisis . and that population crisis. and that really has little to do with the small boats offensive though that is, it's due to the fact that is, it's due to the fact that over 17 million people voted for lower immigration, voted for lower immigration, voted for lower immigration, voted for more border controls . voted for more border controls. and what they've got is a conservative party in hock to giant multinational businesses who want as much foreign labour as they possibly can. and if you want a gp appointment, you want to get a house for your kids.

you want to drive anywhere without being stuck in a, you know, on a terrible traffic jam. you frankly go to hell . you can frankly go to hell. >> i love how nigel says, never say never when he's asked about his political ambitions. >> yeah, keep your powder dry. it's always the always the way to go, isn't it? >> well, yeah, exactly. keep us. keep tenterhooks. yes keep us on tenterhooks. yes >> there you go. >> there you go. >> but no, it's fascinating . >> but no, it's fascinating. bill has written to say , well bill has written in to say, well done, nigel. in the jungle. you're a star. but whatever you do, do not join the conservatives saying that they're surrounded by enemies. brackets remain , as i thought. brackets remain, as i thought. we're not beyond the remainer leaver dichotomy yet. >> well, i've had a little look in the inbox and there are lots of you saying that's the last thing should the thing he should do is join the conservatives . but as nigel conservatives. but as nigel said, say never. knows said, never say never. who knows what's next? what's coming next? >> what's up >> well, i know what's coming up next program . coming up next on this program. coming up in houn next on this program. coming up in hour, wing in the next hour, right wing tory delivered their tory mps have delivered their verdict on the government's emergency rwanda legislation. we'll bring you that live from westminster after this . westminster after this. >> looks like things are heating

up. boxed boilers, sponsors of weather on . gb news afternoon . weather on. gb news afternoon. >> i'm alex deakin. this is your latest weather update from the met office for gb news after a fine monday for most of us, we're back to some heavy downpours tomorrow and some gusty starting to gusty winds also starting to head into northern ireland through this evening. ahead of that, we've had a few showers today scotland. today over eastern scotland. they'll keep going, for they'll keep going, but for many, evening . here many, it's a fine evening. here comes rain, though, could comes the rain, though, could cause problems in northern comes the rain, though, could cause as problems in northern comes the rain, though, could cause as itproblems in northern comes the rain, though, could cause as it lingers|s in northern comes the rain, though, could cause as it lingers for1 northern comes the rain, though, could cause as it lingers for most hern ireland as it lingers for most of the night. potential for a bit so we do have a bit of flooding. so we do have a met office warning in met office yellow warning in place. will move place. the rain will move through wales through across england, wales and into scotland . a and into southern scotland. a mild tonight in the south, mild night tonight in the south, but pretty chilly across northern scotland. touch of frost, about possible. that frost, just about possible. that rain then spread into parts rain will then spread into parts of southeast scotland , northeast of southeast scotland, northeast england tomorrow where again likely to linger. because likely to linger. and because it's been so wet, it could cause some further issues in the south. heavy showers likely

tomorrow. potential for some thunder storms, even hailstones likely for many. it's a cloudy day with rain on and off, some dner day with rain on and off, some drier and brighter spell. it's quite mild in the south, double digits , maybe even into the digits, maybe even into the teens, but chilly again. further north, such a frost on wednesday morning across scotland and northern ireland, further outbreaks of rain, but not as heavy these eastern areas heavy across these eastern areas dunng heavy across these eastern areas during wednesday. so quite a grey day for eastern england, but elsewhere it's actually turning drier and brighter through the course of wednesday. this weather front will bring a bit of on wednesday bit of rain in on wednesday night. at this, high night. but look at this, high pressure from midweek pressure moving in from midweek onwards should start to onwards and that should start to dry things out. onwards and that should start to dry things out . that warm dry things out. that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on .

gb news wake up to the headlines with headliners every morning at 5 am. we treat you to the day's biggest stories. >> before anyone else. >> before anyone else. >> seven days a week you can catch up on everything you need to know before you've even had your . your kippers. >> headliners every morning >> mhm. headliners every morning at 5 am. >> only on gb news the people's channel >> only on gb news the people's channel, britain's news channel . channel, britain's news channel. >> good afternoon, britain. it is monday, the 11th of december. december still to come, rwanda crunch time. >> it's a race against time for the prime minister as more and

more of his own mps look set to reject or at least abstain on the rwanda bill. tomorrow, we'll have the very latest on which names have joined this burgeoning tory revolt . burgeoning tory revolt. >> has rishi sunak thrown his old boss under the bus? the prime minister said he is deeply sorry to all of those who lost loved ones during the pandemic. the former chancellor says whilst facing a grilling the whilst facing a grilling at the covid inquiry today, bring covid inquiry today, we'll bring you latest . you the latest. >> what's next for nige? >> and what's next for nige? well, after taking the bronze in the jungle, gb news very own nigel farage hints at a return to frontline politics, launching scathing attacks on both the leadership of the tories and the labour party. could he launch a third comeback . third comeback. >> and while rishi sunak is, of course, at the covid inquiry being asked all sorts of questions about his time as

chancellor and the role he played during the pandemic , this played during the pandemic, this revolt is brewing and one of the things he's going to do according to our political ednonis according to our political editor, is launch a smoke salmon charm offensive. editor, is launch a smoke salmon chathat'sznsive. editor, is launch a smoke salmon chathat's rights. editor, is launch a smoke salmon chathat's right. editor, is launch a smoke salmon chathat's right . tomorrow >> that's right. tomorrow morning, apparently, number 10 >> that's right. tomorrow mor|be;, apparently, number 10 >> that's right. tomorrow mor|be tryingarently, number 10 >> that's right. tomorrow mor|be trying to 1tly, number 10 >> that's right. tomorrow mor|be trying to butteerber 10 >> that's right. tomorrow mor|be trying to butter up,er 10 will be trying to butter up, well, not just the bellinis with the smoked salmon on them, but the smoked salmon on them, but the mps that they're given to and perhaps watered down any revolt. the big question will be what is decided about when the revolt plays out? will they try and keep their powder dry and go for putting amendments in a later stage of the bill's passage through parliament? the report stage or or will they vote against it? tomorrow we'll be speaking to our political editor imminently on what these five groups of tory mps have said in a meeting that broke up just a couple of minutes ago . just a couple of minutes ago. >> but first, let's get the headunes. headlines. >> thanks very much , emily. good

>> thanks very much, emily. good afternoon from the gb newsroom . afternoon from the gb newsroom. it's 1:02. the prime afternoon from the gb newsroom. it's1:02. the prime minister has defended what he called a vigorous debate among senior government figures during the pandemic . he government figures during the pandemic. he said it was appropriate when making such significant decisions . earlier, significant decisions. earlier, rishi sunak began his evidence at the covid inquiry with an apology to those who had lost loved ones. however, he played down suggestions by hugo keith kc that severe inefficiencies in downing street had led to a chaotic style of governance . chaotic style of governance. >> s were you aware that his closest advisers had seemingly unanimously taken the view that there was a lack of efficiency ? there was a lack of efficiency? the administration's described privately as brutal and useless or criminally incompetent or operationally chaotic ? operationally chaotic? >> the fact that there was debate and that people were passionate about it and they had different points of view is, i think, a unsurprising thing. and

be good because it would be worse if we were having this conversation and all the commentary was, well, there was no debate about any of this whatsoever. it was all just signed straightforward . signed off, straightforward. someone put a piece of paper, someone that was someone checked, and that was the heard i think the last we heard of it. i think that would actually be far worse, so it's worse, quite frankly. so it's good there was debate about good that there was debate about these well the prime these things. well the prime minister also blamed government borrowing during lockdown for record high taxes. >> he told the inquiry that the impact of having to pay it back only comes after everyone forgets why it was necessary . it forgets why it was necessary. it comes as new data shows property taxes are among the highest across the developed world, with the office for budget responsibility signalling further hikes to come . some further hikes to come. some breaking news now. the government wants rwanda legislation provides a partial and incomplete solution . that's and incomplete solution. that's according to the so—called star chamber of lawyers , the tory mps chamber of lawyers, the tory mps team of advisers says the plan may be the toughest laws yet,

but it doesn't go far enough to achieve . the prime minister's achieve. the prime minister's stated aim of stopping the boats. the bill heads for a crunch vote tomorrow in what's set to be an important week for the prime minister, gary lineker is among several high profile personalities who've signed a letter describing the policy as uncaring, chaotic and costly. defence secretary grant shapps says he should stick to football. >> what is moral rule about allowing criminal gangs to put people's lives at risk ? ask for people's lives at risk? ask for large sums of money by traffickers trafficking them across the english channel? what on earth has got into anyone's minds to think that we shouldn't challenge or tackle that disgusting trade in human misery 7 disgusting trade in human misery ? marie and so again , unless he ? marie and so again, unless he labour or anyone else have got a better plan , at least we're better plan, at least we're putting plans in place which are starting to have success slashed by a third and would do more in the future for parents and

teachers, say the regulation of schools should be more transparent and less high stakes. >> according to a new report, it found that 42% of parents support more transparency in how ofsted judges schools with respondents also in favour of more frequent inspections. the report by policy consultancy pubuc report by policy consultancy public first comes after a coroner found that an ofsted inspection likely contributed to the death of headteacher ruth perry . the united the death of headteacher ruth perry. the united nations is experiencing one of its worst funding shortfalls in years, after just over a third of its required aid budget was provided last year. humanitarian crises were estimated to cost around $57 billion over the last 12 months, as conflicts in gaza and ukraine worsened . however, after ukraine worsened. however, after receiving just a fraction of that amount, the un is now lowering its expectation for the year ahead. with today's appeal for $46 billion. aid chief says

it's difficult to decrease aid budgets amid intensifying global conflicts while staying realistic about what's needed . realistic about what's needed. dengue fever could become a national domestic disease in england by 2060 because of climate change. government health experts say warmer conditions are to blame for the spread of the asian tiger mosquito, known for its potential spread of the disease. the uk health security agency warns the mosquito could become commonplace across england over the next 2 to 3 decades. officials say warmer weather bnngs officials say warmer weather brings a higher risk of disease and pandemics . now if you're and pandemics. now if you're driving home for christmas , driving home for christmas, experts say you'd better plan ahead. with christmas falling on ahead. with christmas falling on a monday this year, the aa predicts friday, the 22nd, and saturday. the 23rd to be the busiest days for traffic around 16.1 million car journeys busiest days for traffic around 16.1 million carjourneys are expected to take place across

the uk during the festive weekend . that's all from me for weekend. that's all from me for now . this is gb news weekend. that's all from me for now. this is gb news across weekend. that's all from me for now . this is gb news across the now. this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car on digital radio and on your smart speaker. just say play gb news now back to tom and . emily to tom and. emily >> so while the prime minister is giving evidence that the covid inquiry his party are making their decision over this controversial rwanda plan , yes, controversial rwanda plan, yes, rishi sunak faces a crunch vote in parliament tomorrow when both the left and the right wings of his party have threatened to derail that vote. >> but many of their decisions are being made today. >> there's only one man we can go to. our political editor, christopher hope , who is in christopher hope, who is in westminster. chris can you bring us the latest on this? i understand you have some breaking for news us. >> well, yeah, the latest news is this. this is the summary

pages of this european research group of tory mps, legal advisory committee known as the star chamber. that's five different groups of tory mps on the right. they are saying very clearly this rwanda bill provides a partial and incomplete solution to the problems of legal challenges to the uk. what they're saying here essentially is what's happened before in the past 18 months since they unveiled this rwanda plan, will carry on again. more lawyers will be able to challenge anyone being challenge and stop anyone being taken from this country to rwanda they rwanda for processing if they arrive legally in small arrive here legally in small boats, will change, is boats, nothing will change, is what they're saying . the what they're saying. the challenge overnight now to the pm is to say quite clearly , pm is to say quite clearly, change it, harden it up overnight and we'll support it more likely is they're going to abstain on it. the government will find it hard to win. it won't be clear they're winning until the very last amendment tomorrow and come back the tomorrow and come back in the new and amend it. new year to try and amend it. but rishi sunak day at covid but rishi sunak day at the covid inquiry. if he's this inquiry. if he's watching this now, will it's a lot now, will know it's got a lot worse now, it is worse now, chris, it is important , this distinction

important, this distinction between voting against and abstaining. >> the government could with withstand perhaps more than 50 mps abstain on this legislation, but it would only take what is it, around 25 for them to lose their majority if they voted against it. but the abstaining, the abstentions matter here in terms of how the lords then responds , that's what the magic responds, that's what the magic number is. >> 28. if more than 28 tory mps vote against the bill falls at the first hurdle. and then there's a complete chaos in the government , frankly, on government, frankly, on abstention options. it's basically if you remove yourself from supporting, it's more like 56, 57 required to abstain . but 56, 57 required to abstain. but we are where we are in that ballpark because 100 or so on the right of the party, 100 or so on the left of the party meet tonight. but you only need a quarter those numbers to quarter of those numbers to inflict a defeat by not supporting the government. so yeah , a big deal. even if the yeah, a big deal. even if the government squeaks through low tens tomorrow night when it's

voted on in the house of commons, as that's also bad for the government because they need a big support the second a big support at the second reading to force lords reading stage to force the lords to without amending it to let it go without amending it heavily. if it's seen to heavily. if it's if it's seen to be in commons be contested in the commons for the use that and the lords will use that and allow to try and allow themselves to try and amend change water it amend it, change it, water it down further , threatening the down further, threatening the prospect of this bill either working or even allowing planes to take off in may. as the pm has said, it's getting worse for the pm as the day goes on, not better. tomorrow morning though, he'll be back. charming mps , we he'll be back. charming mps, we understand reported today. understand that reported today. he'll be having breakfast meetings with tory mps. i think you mentioned smoked salmon. it might and eggs. might be cold bacon and eggs. emily more than salmon, emily more than smoked salmon, but be a nice way to but it might be a nice way to start the day. >> might be christopherjust >> it might be christopherjust lastly, right wing tory lastly, these right wing tory mps this bill to be mps want this bill to be toughened up. what might that look like? what does toughening up mean ? up mean? >> well, i'm trying to go through the details in the report in my hand. they're concerned that there's only limited disapplication of the

human rights act. it may be to require that the more of a kind of broad blush blanket removal of broad blush blanket removal of these human rights element, it's to legal challenges to make sure it works . because the sure it works. because the problem is if have a migrant problem is if you have a migrant arriving, can make particular cases to say, maybe i might have ptsd if i go back to rwanda or other reasons , that can be other reasons, that can be enough to stop it. so lawyers will take each case individually and find a single reason to ensure that the hra human rights act can apply in those cases and it will see it thrown out. so i think a of think they want a more of a broad, broad brush approach from the make work. the government to make it work. but pm, mr but don't forget the pm, mr sunak told us in press sunak told us in that press conference thursday that conference last thursday that he's gone as far as can he's gone as far as he can in any risk collapsing the any further risk collapsing the whole he knows he's whole treaty. he knows he's walking a very fine line and the left won't be happy it goes left won't be happy if it goes further, further more further, further it becomes more hardline so it's a hardline overnight. so it's a very, very difficult place right now for the pm. >> and chris, just to with >> and chris, just to stick with you raising those you for a moment, raising those mps on the left of the party, those those groups that are meeting tonight , what is the

meeting tonight, what is the risk that if rishi sunak makes concessions to the erg types , concessions to the erg types, those one nation tory mps are more likely to rebel themselves as or not even rebel ? as or not even rebel? >> tom abstain. i mean, you only you only need 25 or so from the one nation group 2530 or so from the red right wing lot for the government to be defeated because you remove 60 or so tory mps that the majority has lost for the government. so you're absolutely right. i mean, that's why it's a very, very difficult position be in. it felt very position to be in. it felt very much like the brexit wars you and covered in day and i covered back in the day outside end room in outside this grim end room in the house in the portcullis house just now, all the hacks , house just now, all the hacks, all the journalists squeezed in there trying bits of there, trying to grab bits of papen there, trying to grab bits of paper, run around with them and ask i it ask them questions. i mean, it did degree of chaos. did feel like a degree of chaos. you do forget sometimes this government has got a majority of working majority, well over 50. it feels it does feel quite

existential, frankly , very, very difficult. >> balancing act for rishi sunak. and of course, he is at the covid inquiry as we speak. thank you very much indeed. christopher hope, political editor from westminster. editor for us from westminster. >> well, mentioning that covid inquiry in a wonderful segway that of course, is continuing with prime minister taking with the prime minister taking the seat formally. of the hot seat formally. of course, the chancellor at the time , rishi sunak, time, rishi sunak, has been giving throughout the giving evidence throughout the morning what he had morning and here's what he had to government's to say about the government's implementation . often of advice implementation. often of advice from sage and this this is interesting sunak interesting because rishi sunak really blasted through to a narrative that has started to set hold. i think that this is really compelling evidence. let's have a listen. you know, my strong recollection of those few weeks in march was that advice was put to the government, to the prime minister from sage, and advice was followed pretty much imminently on the same day. >> in most cases, if not all cases during that period , the cases during that period, the advice changed from sage during that period. but that

government, when the advice changed, the government acted. the prime minister didn't say, i'm going to do this and then i'm going to do this and then i'm were i'm going to change. we were sitting the advice sitting there, we got the advice about implement about when we should implement self isolation, household isolation , originally not to isolation, originally not to close schools , not to ban mass close schools, not to ban mass events, things change, particularly on the 16th of march. that's when the advice from changed considerably from sage changed considerably about speed about the speed of implementation . but again, prime implementation. but again, prime minister reacted and schools were closed on. i think that was announced on the 18th because that was put before the committee at the time . and committee at the time. and again, that was just acted on immediately , i think the same immediately, i think the same day, both on the 16th and the 18th, i think prime minister 18th, i think the prime minister stood up the same day and announced decisions. and announced those decisions. and again, think again, even up to about, i think the march, the view the 19th or of march, the view from sage, the view from the chief medical officer was that the existing measures that had been announced, if there was in their words, 75% compliance, they should do the trick. well there you go. >> rishi sunak setting out how, yes, the government has been accused of wobbling all over the

place on what rules it implemented . but actually implemented. but actually looking at the advice coming from the scientists that that's what was changing and he's right. i've got before me some sage minutes from . the 13th of sage minutes from. the 13th of march 2020, well into that penod march 2020, well into that period of covid where they say sage was unanimous. this is a direct quote. sage was unanimous that measures seeking to completely suppress the spread of covid 19 will cause a second peak. it then goes on to criticise countries that have done so—called heavy suppression in what we now know as lockdown measures. so as late as the 13th of march, the official scientific advice was don't do what was later to be known as a lockdown. and this is forgotten. there's this foundational myth that the scientists are all saying lockdown. the politicians were trying to push against that , and that's not the case at all. really not the case. all. that's really not the case. >> ultimately, the >> but ultimately, the politicians decision . politicians made the decision. so let's speak to ray addison, who live for now give who is live for us now to give us latest on the inquiry.

us the latest on the inquiry. tom has picked out that that moment where rishi sunak said the government was given this different advice and when the advice changed initially they changed the policy . ray, what changed the policy. ray, what have you got for us? yeah rishi sunak's been very clear that throughout the whole process of the pandemic, the decisions were made which very much followed the advice of the scientists. >> of course , it's i might point >> of course, it's i might point out to you that just behind me, covid campaign, various covid campaigners have been calling for politicians to face consequences for misconduct in pubuc consequences for misconduct in public office. they believe that the pandemic was handled very badly. rishi sunak very keen to point out that they were following that advice . of following that advice. of course, one of those key areas thatis course, one of those key areas that is being focussed on is the process of decision making and whether there was any dysfunction in that process within downing street. now, rishi sunak earlier on was absolutely clear that he denied that boris johnson was easily

swayed in decision making. now that might be because it's been suggested and rishi sunak has acknowledged that he did have bilateral meetings with the then prime minister, boris johnson, at the time, bilateral as the two of them on their own, sometimes this would just be informally in the garden because they happen to share the garden space behind downing street. and so he had an opportunity to really give his views. it was also pointed out that between meetings and after meetings , meetings and after meetings, sometimes there would be one perception of a of a particular direction in which the government was going to travel. and rishi would and however, then rishi would then johnson then speak to mrjohnson and then speak to mrjohnson and then those decisions then perhaps those decisions would later change. mr sunak very clear to say that the cabinet was not sidelined by the pm, he would have had a number of bilateral meetings with other ministers as well. it wasn't just him , he's saying. and so just him, he's saying. and so there was a range of views and it wasn't just normally that decisions would made. after decisions would be made. after one would be

one meeting, there would be a series of meetings. that was how bons series of meetings. that was how boris liked johnson liked boris liked to. mrjohnson liked to to those decisions. he'd to come to those decisions. he'd have meetings and have a series of meetings and then make his final decision often. now, within the last hour or so, mr sunak has been asked about the impact of this so—called fear narrative, as he has put it in the past on the public. he admitted that he was concerned by the pace of that narrative and on how it affected the public's return to normal life and how that would then therefore affect the economy, particularly , he says, particularly, he says, hospitality, leisure , tourism hospitality, leisure, tourism and retail. why because mr sunak's words , that's these are sunak's words, that's these are sectors that often employ some of our most vulnerable in society , he said. at the time society, he said. at the time there was polling which suggest that there was great reticence in the uk to for the public to properly return to normal life. and he wrote a note at the time saying that unless the uk was reopened at a faster speed, we risk being placed at a

competitive disadvantage. however it was then pointed out by kc that the government's scientific advisers did warn that the reopening schedule planned by the government was that the riskier end of the spectrum. so these are all things topics that have been discussed so far. we haven't had a key focus on the eat out to help out scheme. i feel that's coming towards the end of the day . day. >> i'm saving that till last. perhaps thank you very much, ray addison outside the covid inquiry, our reporter there. he'll be keeping his ear very much open to find out all the all the best bits. it's very difficult, though, isn't it, all the best bits. it's very difficult, though, isn't it , to difficult, though, isn't it, to have an assessment when you're heanng have an assessment when you're hearing from all of these different people. they have different people. they all have different people. they all have different know, assumptions different you know, assumptions on wasn't happening. >> clearly it was an >> but clearly it was an incredibly difficult period. and no how initially to no one knew how initially to respond . the measures that we respond. the measures that we eventually were eventually ended up doing were measures before measures never taken before in the of this country. i the history of this country. i think extent you've got think to some extent you've got to bit of slack to people to give a bit of slack to people that scientists, that had no idea scientists, politicians , industry leaders, politicians, industry leaders,

everyone else how to how to respond. and as rishi sunak said this morning, up until the ninth, 9th of march, that's almost the end of march, scientists were still saying voluntary measures if three quarters of people follow these measures, then we'll be fine. and they only change their minds after point. and was and they only change their minds afte scientists nt. and was and they only change their minds afte scientists ,:. and was and they only change their minds afte scientists , not|d was and they only change their minds afte scientists , not the was politicians. >> and this is where we disagree because i, i wish they'd remained voluntary, but there we go. coming up, we'll be finding out why northern ireland is hosting talks with political leaders stay with .

the camilla tominey show sunday mornings from 930 on gb news is . mornings from 930 on gb news is. good afternoon, britain. >> now the northern ireland secretary, chris heaton—harris is hosting fresh talks in northern ireland today, talking to political leaders as he seeks to political leaders as he seeks to get the executive of their back in motion . back in motion. >> yes. joining us now from hillsborough castle is our northern ireland reporter dougie beattie t dougie, bring us the latest, please . well he says latest, please. well he says it's about trying to get the northern ireland assembly up and running again. >> and i suppose in a roundabout way, he probably is. but it's more finance finance more about finance and finance has a real problem here in has been a real problem here in northern ireland. >> if you go back to about 2010, wales had said that the barnett formula is weren't addressing need rather than a head count

and they ran a thing alongside the barnett consequentials called the holtham formula, which basically puts a floor, a fiscal floor in place that makes which basically puts a floor, a fiscathat)r in place that makes which basically puts a floor, a fiscathat)r in plsectorat makes which basically puts a floor, a fiscathat)r in pl sectorat ipaid s which basically puts a floor, a fiscepaid )r in pl sectorat ipaid s which basically puts a floor, a fiscepaid )r ia pl sectorat ipaid s which basically puts a floor, a fiscepaid )r ia pl secwage,paid s and paid at a good wage, etcetera. >> exactly what's >> and that's exactly what's happening as happening behind us here as politicians are gathering , the politicians are gathering, the unions are striking . so unions here are striking. so northern ireland is about 300 million underfunded now. and if that continues on to 2025, that will look at about 1.2 billion. so politics. so this morning, the secretary of state has met with the head of the civil service in northern ireland. and just about now the politicians are to go in there and are arriving to go in there and have a chat with them. and he is going to try and this as going to try and address this as a financial package of some a new financial package of some sort. but of course, it's not. it's what they've been arguing for last eight, 13 years or for the last eight, 13 years or so that they can have that headroom. if you like, financial headroom. if you like, financial headroom in to order address the problems with pay in the public sector . so this

problems with pay in the public sector. so this morning he came out, he spoke for about 20s wouldn't take questions and disappeared off again. but and that was probably because some of us had realised that this is exactly what this is about. there is no doubt that they will try and push the dup and unionists back into government. but what's happening inside the rwanda is going to affect rwanda deal is going to affect northern ireland in a big way because of course northern ireland has no borders with the eu. there is no border on the island of ireland between the repubuc island of ireland between the republic of ireland and northern ireland and immigrants would come in to the south of ireland , come in to the south of ireland, will just travel across a borderless border straight into the uk and as i said to you, tom, this time last year, that it will eventually get to the point where you will have the ridiculous situation where british will have to british citizens will have to show british passports to get back into britain. otherwise you're closing the front door into britain and leaving the back door wide open . so all back door wide open. so all these things have to be addressed . and as well as that, addressed. and as well as that, there's also the issues around

northern ireland. manager facturers here. they're still having to manufacture two eu specifications , even though 70% specifications, even though 70% of our market is with the uk and that will well, it will give it a financial hook i suppose, on those companies in the uk and very much disadvantaged those inside northern ireland. so those are all things that are going on in the main talks at this minute in time. going on in the main talks at this minute in time . and it has this minute in time. and it has to said they have very to be said they have got very close, but this minute in close, but at this minute in time stalled there close, but at this minute in time to stalled there close, but at this minute in time to be stalled there close, but at this minute in time to be no stalled there close, but at this minute in time to be no wayed there close, but at this minute in time to be no way forward there seems to be no way forward because the government , i seems to be no way forward because the government, i think, are very much focussed on what is happening with the rwanda deal >> goodness me, stalled talks around northern ireland politics. it's twas ever thus. i suppose to some extent just dougie quickly, there's a big group of protesters, it seems, behind you. what's their grievance . grievance. >> well, these are all health workers, teachers, etcetera , to workers, teachers, etcetera, to that have been on strike through northern ireland, as they have

across the rest of the uk. but some of the health workers here, wages, they are not linked with those mainland uk and those in the mainland uk and they are paid substantially less in some cases than than their counterparts in the rest of the uk and that is because we're going back to this very much this fiscal or this fiscal floor that must be brought into place. and even if even if the assembly was up and running tomorrow , was up and running tomorrow, they would have no money to pay these people because, of course, it goes back to the barnett consequentials and the whole thumb formulas that are there thatis thumb formulas that are there that is based on need rather than a head count of where we are. goodness me. >> well, i think it's the first time seen people time that we've seen people arguing for the wages that nurses are paid in england, scotland and wales. after all, a lot of nurses unions have been quite upset by that. but clearly even an issue in even more of an issue in northern ireland. >> thank you very much indeed. dougie beattie northern dougie beattie our northern ireland. reporter there ireland. ireland reporter there outside castle . and outside hillsborough castle. and we're going to be looking ahead, of looking of course, we're still looking ahead, that vote ahead, of course, to that vote

tomorrow on emergency tomorrow on this emergency rwanda legislation. things are heating up. >> yes. and a press conference to be held very, very shortly by the representatives of those five groups, mainly the erg. but also, as we've been hearing , the also, as we've been hearing, the new conservatives, the conservative growth group , many conservative growth group, many other groups as well, representing 100 tory mps. they haven't yet decided how to vote yes. >> they want the bill to be toughened up, hardened up, in their words . i believe that's their words. i believe that's what christopher hope was saying i >> -- >> yes. but in terms of how they do that, do they do that by trying to vote down the bill and then bring it back later or do they sort of abstain , hope it they sort of abstain, hope it goes through and amended it, committee stage. but if they do that and doesn't pass with that and it doesn't pass with a big majority, does the of big majority, does the house of lords no lords then say, look, there's no mandate for this bill? your mandate for this bill? even your mps, many of your don't mps, even many of your mps don't want to block it want it. we're going to block it now. that's the real risk. >> you've been a >> now, tom, you've been a political for quite political reporter for quite a while yeah what is your while now. yeah what is your verdict or your what do you think's going to happen? do you

think's going to happen? do you think this bill will get through in watered down in some kind of watered down way, you think will way, or do you think it will be toughened as it will pass as toughened up as it will pass as written tomorrow? >> that's my prediction. and i might myself for might be setting myself up for a big, fall here because, of big, big fall here because, of course, lot can change. course, a lot can change. tonight. we're to be tonight. we're going to be heanng tonight. we're going to be hearing at 6 this hearing a meeting at 6 pm. this evening. in terms of how evening. now in terms of how these right conservatives these right wing conservatives will decide but also will decide to vote, but also the one nation left wing group of conservative mps meeting tonight so things could shift in the next 12 hours fairly substantially . but i the next 12 hours fairly substantially. but i think my central prediction now is this bill will pass . but then the bill will pass. but then the government itself will sponsor amendments and toughen things up amendments and toughen things up a bit later down the track . a bit later down the track. >> well, because there is this issue that rwanda might be the ones to pull out of this treaty, well, they're worried that if we disapply too many elements of international law, they'll look bad international stage. bad on the international stage. >> and so they're saying, well, this we can go. but this is as far as we can go. but i this is as far as we can go. but | , this is as far as we can go. but i , we were just talking i mean, we were just talking a second ago that £800 million was spent on eat out to help out

over 12 days in the august of 2020. we've spent 200 odd million on rwanda. so far. so that's only that's only a quarter of eat out to help out. >> yes. but it's reportedly going to cost a more than going to cost a lot more than that years. but that that over the years. but that depends what it is . depends on what shape it is. >> money can sort of grease the wheels these things. >> money can sort of grease the wh> money can sort of grease the wh> money can sort of grease the wh> money can sort of grease the whevlatest updates] you the >> money can sort of grease the whevlatest updates] ycthate very latest updates on that story and continue to discuss it with our wonderful panel who will be joining us very soon indeed. will be joining us very soon indeed . but let's get the news indeed. but let's get the news with tamsin . first with tamsin. first >> thanks, emily. here are the headunes >> thanks, emily. here are the headlines at 131. the government's rwanda legislation provides a partial and incomplete solution. according to the so—called star chamber of lawyers , as a legal team for the lawyers, as a legal team for the group of tory mps says the plan may be the toughest action yet, but it doesn't go far enough to achieve. the prime minister's stated aim of stopping the boats . the bill heads for a crunch vote tomorrow in what's said to

be an important week for the prime minister for meanwhile , prime minister for meanwhile, while rishi sunak has defended what he called a vigorous debate among senior government figures dunng among senior government figures during the pandemic , he said it during the pandemic, he said it was appropriate when making such significant decisions . earlier, significant decisions. earlier, the prime minister began his evidence at the covid inquiry with an apology to those who'd lost loved ones. speaking in the last hour, family members of some of those who died said his words don't go far enough off day. >> what the prime minister should now take credit for was releasing a new wave of death and disease. rishi sunak one man mission to torpedo lockdown to gain a competitive advantage resulted in the false economy of sacrificing tens of thousands of lives to save the economy. today, the covid bereaved do not accept his empty words of sorrow and it is of note that the prime minister has failed to utter one word of apology . word of apology. >> well , the prime minister has

>> well, the prime minister has also blamed government borrowing dunng also blamed government borrowing during lockdown for record high taxes . taxes. >> he told the inquiry the economic impact of paying it backis economic impact of paying it back is only now being felt by taxpayers . it comes as new data taxpayers. it comes as new data shows property taxes are among the highest across the developed world, with the office for budget responsibility signalling further hikes to come . those are further hikes to come. those are the headlines. you can, of course , get more on all of those course, get more on all of those stories . just visit our website, stories. just visit our website, gbnews.com . all right. gb news.com. all right. >> gbnews.com. all right. >> well, let's have a look at what's in the gb views. i think we've got a couple right here on the rwanda scheme. steve says even if the echr is removed from the illegal immigration approach, the lefty lawyers will then the equality then start using the equality act. there you go. goodness. >> well , it's goodness. >> well, it's a view paul says goodness. >> well , it's a view paul says. >> well, it's a view paul says. let's hope they vote against it . let's hope they vote against it. stop wasting taxpayers money. but paul , i stop wasting taxpayers money. but paul, i suppose the argument

is without anywhere to deport people to, they're stuck in hotels in the uk. yeah. and that's more expensive . that's more expensive. >> yes, more expensive. and we've heard that it's going to be potentially hundreds and hundreds millions in just hundreds of millions in just a few years that's going to be spent on this particular crisis that government facing that the government is facing while facing . while the country is facing. >> but emily, i hear that it's all to be solved. oh, how? all going to be solved. oh, how? because there's been an intervention from a significant cultural figure. intervention from a significant cultwho figure. intervention from a significant cultwho could that be? >> who could that be? >> who could that be? >> right . gary >> who could that be? >> right. gary lineker >> that's right. gary lineker has in. surprise, has weighed in. surprise, surprise. gary lineker has weighed into debate. will weighed into this debate. will be talking about just how much influence the football pundit has on british politics. this after this

monday to thursdays from six till 930 . till 930. >> good afternoon. >> good afternoon. >> britain has the rwanda conundrum been sold ? and after a conundrum been sold? and after a big thinker weighed in on the debate ? that's right. gary debate? that's right. gary lineker has written a letter so clearly we can all pack up now and go home. let's discuss his intervention now and some of the other big stories of the day with the former of the with the former editor of the sunday express, townsend, sunday express, martin townsend, and former labour mp simon and the former labour mp simon danczuk . danczuk. >> the great intellect, the great intellect. gary lineker has waded in once again. simon, what do you make of this? >> well, i think he should stay out of it, to be quite honest. why? very little why? well, i know very little about . about football. >> a lot about politics >> i know a lot about politics and government policy . and doing government and policy. >> he knows very little about

government and doing policy. >> should stick to football. >> he should stick to football. the is that i actually the reality is that i actually think it's uncaring and unchristian to support the people traffickers, bringing people traffickers, bringing people over here actually. and that's where he's placing himself. i think he's got it completely wrong. it's unclear an uncaring to support the people traffickers who are actually drowning people in the channel. that's the reality of it . it. >> and martin, we've been talking about the legal migration to this country for a couple of weeks now in great detail . well, a significant detail. well, a significant proportion of which includes hundreds of thousands of ukrainians , hong kongers, ukrainians, hong kongers, afghans , all of these groups afghans, all of these groups that we've taken in as legal refugees . i find it very that we've taken in as legal refugees. i find it very hard to understand how anyone could say that this is an uncaring policy. the numbers that we've taken in have been significant . have been significant. >> i don't think it's an uncaring policy. i think it's a terrible policy, if i'm honest, because completely because i think it's completely impractical . i don't think it's

impractical. i don't think it's ever going to work even even if we actually got to the stage where we were sending people to rwanda, i can see endless problems in rwanda itself. i can see it being a field day for newspapers that will be out there every single there talking to every single immigrant that person they there talking to every single imnfindnt that person they there talking to every single imnfind about person they there talking to every single imnfind about conditions they there talking to every single imnfind about conditions within can find about conditions within the centre. et cetera . et the centre. et cetera. et cetera. rwanda has got a dreadful record on on on looking after people like that. anyway, at the home, i just i just see it as a totally impractical and unworkable system. that's my objection to it. and actually picking up on a point. >> simon just made there, what i don't understand is if we can bust these huge drug gangs in europe through collaboration across europe , the police across europe, the police forces, et cetera. >> why on earth can't we crack the traffic traffic traffickers? >> i do disagree with you. there martin. i think the rwanda policy is the right one. i think it discourages people from paying it discourages people from paying the money to people paying all the money to people traffickers to come over here because they know if they land here, they could well end up in

rwanda and or rwanda. very well. ihave rwanda and or rwanda. very well. i have a home there. my wife is rwandan . it's a very safe rwandan. it's a very safe country. the united nations uses rwanda to send refugees and asylum seekers there. all ready. it's got a very good reputation . it's got a very good reputation. it's got a very good reputation. it's exceptionally safe. this is a i think it's a good policy. and the sooner the government get it implemented, the better. >> so, martin, you're you're on team gary lineker. i'm not on team gary lineker. i'm not on team gary lineker at all. >> and i think is >> and i think lineker is completely wrong have spoken >> and i think lineker is cononetely wrong have spoken >> and i think lineker is cononetely issue] have spoken >> and i think lineker is cononetely issue because spoken >> and i think lineker is cononetely issue because he oken out on this issue because he works bbc and he's paid works for the bbc and he's paid very and should be very well and he should be completely unbiased, in view. very well and he should be cthinketely unbiased, in view. very well and he should be cthink it's unbiased, in view. very well and he should be cthink it's ainbiased, in view. very well and he should be cthink it's a misuse , in view. i think it's a misuse of his position. i completely disagree with able to speak with him being able to speak out. i'm speaking out on practicalities. i think the tories have made a huge mistake nailing their pretty much their their kind of election promise, if you like, to this particular mast. they're never going to get this through legally over the next many weeks and next however many weeks and months. it'sjust next however many weeks and months. it's just it's just not going to happen. in the meantime, we've got a cost of

living crisis going we've living crisis going on. we've got all kinds problems got all kinds of other problems going world. and we've going on in the world. and we've got that doesn't got a labour party that doesn't have policies . have any ideas or any policies. they attacking the they should be attacking the labour , they be labour party, they should be trying to , you know, get across trying to, you know, get across the fact that they've that rishi sunak has done quite a lot in terms of stabilising the economy, getting, trying to get things track . things back on track. >> he's done some good work there. >> a lot of this is now being undone by what people see as this endless legal argument over rwanda . rwanda. >> but isn't one of the major problems, simon that there problems, too. simon that there seems front when seems to be no united front when it the conservative it comes to the conservative government tory government if all of the tory mps were behind this policy and were desperate to make it work and prove the naysayers wrong, perhaps it would stand a greater chance of success. >> oh yeah, no, absolutely . i >> oh yeah, no, absolutely. i think the conservative mps are in disarray and i was just reading, so i'm sorry, i'm just going you. going to interrupt you. >> live to the >> we're going to go live to the erg speaking in erg who are speaking in westminster their votes westminster on their votes tomorrow . tomorrow. >> again, to reiterate the bottom line conclusion of the

star chambers report. >> this is taken from the report , and that report is now available for anyone in this country to read via the lawyers for britain website site. the summary was, i quote, the bill provides a partial and incomplete solution to the problem of legal challenges in the uk courts being used as stratagems to delay or defeat the removal of illegal migrants to rwanda . i'll just add the to rwanda. i'll just add the common sense group are now hosting a further meeting at 6 pm. this evening, which is also going to be addressed by robert jenrick. so if you like, they've come to us and at 6% we're all going over to theirs. if i can put it like that. so that's where things currently sit at. who would like to ask the first question . thanks the king of

question. thanks the king of spain ? well, we discussed this spain? well, we discussed this for about a well, a good hour and a half. beth and i'm not sure that final decisions will be taken even today because of the importance of the issue . but the importance of the issue. but one thing that most of the members of that meeting that i chaired were clear about . it members of that meeting that i chaired were clear about. it was coming back to the bill overall provides a partial and incomplete solution . the feeling incomplete solution. the feeling very much in the meeting is that the government will be best advised to pull the bill and to come up with a revised version that works better than this one, which has so many holes in it. and as much as there was a consensus, beth, that was the consensus, beth, that was the

consensusis consensus, beth, that was the consensus is this a bill can be . consensus is this a bill can be. fixed by de—banking andy lound bibas family torn up and started again in some respect, right? the i'll ask david in a moment to comment on that as well. what the star chamber have done in great detail is lay out sorry , great detail is lay out sorry, just pausing for the whips office there. they've they hang on. they've laid out in great detail all where they believe the weaknesses are . it might be the weaknesses are. it might be better to start again with a fresh bill that is written on a different basis . but david's a different basis. but david's a member of the star. >> yeah. i think that that's that's right. >> i don't think that the bill is easily amendable and really , is easily amendable and really, i think that the government needs to review it and maybe consider a completely new piece of legislation because this leaves so many gaps in the legislation and so many ways that people could actually evade

the legislation if they wanted to remain in this country. okay please. so we assume that if there are any changes to the bill to say that if i were you, i wouldn't assume anything until at least there's been a further meeting at 6 pm. this evening. >> that's the logical assumption, isn't it? >> well . we if you like, drop >> well. we if you like, drop the government abroad. >> hint we'll see how the government reply. now who? sorry, beth, who hasn't had a go? the government say they've already gone as far as. >> is it in countries. coming out of the btec . well we all out of the btec. well we all want to stop the boats . want to stop the boats. >> there have been two legislative attempts at this already. the nationalities and borders act that didn't quite

work. the illegal immigration, an act that didn't quite work out. so this is kind of three strikes and you're out, isn't it? so what is really important is if we're going to put a bill through to parliament have a piece of legislation which is fit for purpose , as the bill is fit for purpose, as the bill is currently drafted and it isn't . currently drafted and it isn't. beth, do you want the last word . beth, do you want the last word. this is karen. >> beth . >> beth. >> beth. >> beth. >> beth , you're good at your >> beth, you're good at your job, but i'm not going to get into hypotheticals. let's for the moment, just focus on the legislation . this legislation, legislation. this legislation, through the very foundations. i think, beth, you can ask the prime minister that one. ladies and gentlemen , thank you very and gentlemen, thank you very much say much for your time. i'd say there'll a further meeting at there'll be a further meeting at 6 thank you 6 pm. this evening. thank you very coming. thank you 6 pm. this evening. thank you very well. coming. thank you very well. >> e have em-

>> there we have it. the chairman european chairman of the european research group of conservative mps, francois, accompanied mps, mark francois, accompanied by deputy chairman, by the deputy chairman, david jones , giving their verdict the jones, giving their verdict the result of that meeting that took place at midday today, saying that in their view, the bill in its current form is not fit for purpose, adding that the government would be best advised to pull the legislation, rework it , and then reintroduce it at it, and then reintroduce it at a later date. however, they also added that mps have not decided in this meeting, which way they will vote tomorrow . there will will vote tomorrow. there will be a further meeting at 6 pm. and mark francois said some mps in the groups that were represented by that meeting earlier today , some of those mps earlier today, some of those mps will not decide until tomorrow. so a long process still . let's so a long process still. let's let's join now one mp who whose vote, of course will be crucial as all conservative mps votes will be. paul bristow is the conservative mp for peterborough and paul , conservative mp for peterborough and paul, listening there to

what mark francois said , having what mark francois said, having digested the star chambers analysis, have you made up your mind how you'll be voting ? mind how you'll be voting? >> well, hello, tom. well i'm still waiting for reassurances from the government. i'm hoping that they will strengthen this bill further . that they will strengthen this bill further. it's that they will strengthen this bill further . it's clear what bill further. it's clear what this bill does. >> it takes us beyond the objections , perhaps, of the objections, perhaps, of the supreme court, the reasons it was rejected earlier . was rejected earlier. >> but we know what these lawyers are like. >> they'll use the elasticity of the human rights legislation to find any way to try and frustrate our efforts to ensure that this government, the elected british government have the power to determine who comes to this country and in what circum stances and the flagship policy that is of course, rwanda. >> they will frustrate this at every turn and that's why we need a watertight bill to ensure that it's this government who decides policy. that it's this government who dec paul policy. that it's this government who dec paul for policy. that it's this government who dec paul for the policy. that it's this government who dec paul for the british policy. that it's this government who decpaul for the british publicy. >> paul for the british public watching this all go on, it's

rather tiresome watching conservative mps and the infighting , fighting, would it infighting, fighting, would it not be better for conservative mps to stand behind this policy, stand behind this bill and have a unite front? this constant briefing of different tory mps views on this legislation an can be tiresome for many people . be tiresome for many people. >> well, i stand 100% behind the prime minister and his plan and pledge to stop the boats. >> that's why we've got to make this legislation as water tight as possible . let's just as possible. let's just understand who we're up against. yes, we've got the people smugglers. we've got the human rights advocates, we've got the labour party . let's not forget labour party. let's not forget them. they will frustrate this at every turn. they want to see them. they will frustrate this at sign' turn. they want to see them. they will frustrate this at sign uprn. they want to see them. they will frustrate this at sign up to they want to see them. they will frustrate this at sign up to everywant to see them. they will frustrate this at sign up to every human see them. they will frustrate this at sign up to every human rights us sign up to every human rights law, and they want an open border we're border policy. but we're up against people in against all these people in order to ensure that it's the british government determine british government who determine who country and in who comes to this country and in what circumstance. i don't understand what controversial understand what is controversial about that. to have our own

immigration policy decided by the by the elected government of this country . and that's why we this country. and that's why we need to ensure that this bill is as watertight as possible. so look, i'm looking forward the look, i'm looking forward to the government their government publishing their legal later . government publishing their legal later. i'm legal advice a bit later. i'm looking more meetings looking forward to more meetings with colleagues. and hoping with colleagues. and i'm hoping the comes the government, when it comes to committee , will committee and report stage, will go that one step further. >> tighten this legislation and make sure that these people won't be able to frustrate the will of the british people. >> it's quite hard to keep track of everything that's going on. >> a very frenetic in >> a very frenetic day in westminster. heard westminster. people have heard of of different of of lots of different groups of conservative mps meeting, five of them at 12:00. there are two meetings later, one for the sort of common sense group and one for the one nation group. it's sort starting to seem like sort of starting to seem like there conservative there isn't one conservative party. about party. there are about 15 conservative parties on this issue, but i suppose the question to you, paul, is who will you most be listening to? what will the different sort of arguments, which ones will you weight most heavily ? and most weight most heavily? and most crucially of all, will you be

attending this smoked salmon breakfast with the prime minister tomorrow morning . minister tomorrow morning. >> well, look, i mean, i understand how it can be confusing with different groups and different different parts within the conservative party, but we're all coalitions aren't we? >> the conservative party is a coalition on right coalition of voices on the right of british politics. and the same goes for the labour party on the left of british politics and i guess what this is all about ensuring about is this ensuring that this bill best possible bill is in the best possible shape because this is the last chance at moment. the chance saloon at the moment. the british people really do expect us to get control and to get to gnps us to get control and to get to grips with our immigration policy. and of course , on our policy. and of course, on our borders. that's not borders. and that's not unreasonable. it should be for the british government, as i say, the british say, elected by the british people who comes to people to determine who comes to this country and on what circumstance . but that is not circumstance. but that is not controversial , but it's just controversial, but it's just being blocked by courts, people using human rights laws to infer all sorts of different things, the same human rights laws, by the same human rights laws, by the way, that ensure that prisoners have access to pornography prison . and the

pornography in prison. and the people drew up these human people who drew up these human rights the echr in 1952, rights laws, the echr in 1952, must be turning in their graves to think that been used for to think that it's been used for things this. what things like this. this is what we to overcome. this we have to overcome. and this is why complicated and why it's so complicated and sometimes frustrating . as for sometimes so frustrating. as for your question about will i be attending meeting tomorrow attending the meeting tomorrow morning, actually, been morning, actually, i have been ianed morning, actually, i have been invited desperately morning, actually, i have been invited try desperately morning, actually, i have been invited try andiesperately morning, actually, i have been invited try and make ately morning, actually, i have been invited try and make itely morning, actually, i have been invited try and make it work. going to try and make it work. >> got find someone going to try and make it work. >> pick got find someone going to try and make it work. >> pick up, find someone going to try and make it work. >> pick up, fiimyomeone going to try and make it work. >> pick up, fiimyomeytoe else to pick up, take my kids to school . school. >> well, thank you very much indeed, bristow, indeed, paul bristow, conservative peterborough conservative mp for peterborough there mean, there in westminster. i mean, i don't know how you can talk about united party when about a united party when different are getting different groups are getting different groups are getting different on different legal advice on the government's own policy. it is if you think about it, it is rather ridiculous . but anyway, rather ridiculous. but anyway, no, and it does it does remind us all of those brexit years, we had all of these different groups of mps popping up and sort of briefing against each other it does generate this other and it does generate this perhaps a lack of perhaps sense of a lack of control, which for a government which still a significant which still has a significant majority in the house of commons, frankly, it doesn't feel a majority feel like they have a majority at all. no, it's to be at all. no, it's hard to be confident the government's

confident in the government's policy when there are different groups, within the groups, as we said, within the conservative having groups, as we said, within the cons< separate having groups, as we said, within the cons> well, we'll get to that and so much more. thank so much so much more. thank you so much to we'll back with so much more. thank you so much to of we'll back with so much more. thank you so much to of course,le'll back with so much more. thank you so much to of course, next back with so much more. thank you so much to of course, next hour. :k with you, of course, next hour. and more come after this. more to come after this. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news is . afternoon. >> i'm alex deakin. this is your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. after a fine monday for most of us, we're back to some heavy downpours tomorrow and some gusty winds also starting to head into northern ireland through this evening. ahead of that, we've had a few showers today over eastern scotland. they'll for they'll keep going, but for many, fine evening. here many, it's a fine evening. here comes rain, though , could comes the rain, though, could cause problems in northern cause some problems in northern ireland as it lingers for most of night. potentially of the night. potentially for a bit flooding. have bit of flooding. so we do have a met yellow warning in met office yellow warning in place. rain will move place. the rain will move through england, wales through across england, wales and scotland . a and into southern scotland. a mild in the south, mild night tonight in the south, but pretty chilly across northern scotland. touch of frost, just about possible that

rain spread into parts rain will then spread into parts of south—east scotland, north—east england tomorrow where again likely to linger. and because it's been so wet, it could cause some further issues in south. heavy showers in the south. heavy showers likely tomorrow, potential for some thunderstorm storms, even hailstones likely for many. it's a cloudy day with rain on and off, some drier and brighter spells, quite mild in the south, double digits, maybe even into the teens, but chilly again, further north, such a frost on wednesday morning across scotland and northern ireland, further outbreaks of rain, but not as heavy across these eastern areas during wednesday. so quite dry day day for so quite a dry day day for eastern england, elsewhere eastern england, but elsewhere it's turning drier and it's actually turning drier and brighter through the course of wednesday . this weather front wednesday. this weather front will of rain in on will bring a bit of rain in on wednesday but look wednesday night. but look at this, pressure moving in this, high pressure moving in from midweek onwards. and that should to dry things out . should start to dry things out. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers as sponsors of weather on .

gb news away. >> good afternoon, britain. it's monday , the 11th of december. monday, the 11th of december. still to come today, rwanda crunch time. >> the chair of the erg has said in the last few minutes that the government should pull the bill as it has too many holes in it. but the erg did stop short of formally opposing the legislation. could they still backit

legislation. could they still back it come tomorrow and what concessions might be brought about it? >> and a busy day for the prime minister as he faces the covid inquiry. the former chancellor says he doesn't recall an email saying measures were at the riskier end of the spectrum. an xl bully attack more bad press for owners of the xl bully dog after another troubling scene was witnessed by terrified commuters at london's stratford station . station. >> what did you make of what mark francois had to say? tom i think i think i think there is more nuance than some of the headunes more nuance than some of the headlines suggest. >> yes, he did say ideally the bill would be pulled. they wouldn't be voting on it at all tomorrow . no. wouldn't be voting on it at all tomorrow. no. and something stronger would be put forward at a later date . the thing is, a later date. the thing is, that's just not going to happen, is it? i find it very, very unlikely the government will pull so erg

unlikely the government will pulla so erg unlikely the government will pulla decision so erg unlikely the government will pulla decision to so erg unlikely the government will pulla decision to make erg unlikely the government will pulla decision to make . erg unlikely the government will pulla decision to make . dog unlikely the government will pulla decision to make . do they has a decision to make. do they vote something in perfect as vote for something in perfect as it might be and try and tighten it might be and try and tighten it up report stage ? or do it up at report stage? or do they decide to blow up the whole process, which is a weighty decision and if the bill fails, does that make it more or less likely that tougher legislation will come about? because it's not just about groups like not just about the groups like the are voting here the erg that are voting here tonight. the left of the conservative party meets to decide all of this . and then decide all of this. and then even it does pass through the even if it does pass through the house of commons, there's always the of lords. the house of lords. >> i just think for everyone looking at this situation, watching this situation , even at watching this situation, even at the heart of government, it just looks like such mess . and yes, looks like such a mess. and yes, you can argue that it is a good thing that there are more eyes on legislation, on digging, on this legislation, on digging, digging through the legal ramifications and potential legal challenges and trying to make work. but make the legislation work. but equally be equally. it just looks like a party fighting with itself . itself. >> it looks completely chaotic and these were the scenes we saw

in 2019 when the conservative party didn't have a majority. but let's now cross to chris hope, who is with the chairman of the erg, mark francois. now . of the erg, mark francois. now. yeah, tom, emily, i'm with mark francois, who is the chairman of the european research group of tory mps . tory mps. >> mark francois, you've said just now this bill should be pulled up. that is a disaster for your government . why are you for your government. why are you saying that? >> well, because the star chamber legal experts chaired chamber of legal experts chaired by sir bill cash, spent nearly a week scrubbing this bill. forgive me. and they concluded this is in summary, the bill overall provides a partial and incomplete solution to the problem of legal challenges in the uk courts being used as stratagems to delay or defeat the removal of illegal migrants to rwanda , a partial and to rwanda, a partial and incomplete solution. so the bill, as drafted, is not really fit for purpose. so the consensus of a meeting of five

different backbench groups that i've just finished chairing was that the government, rather than plough on regardless , would be plough on regardless, would be better to pull the bill and to come back with a better draft that doesn't have all these holes in it. >> but pulling the bill means a new treaty, a new treaty means delay, delay, delay . is that delay, delay, delay. is that what you want? >> it doesn't necessarily mean a new treaty, but it does mean a bill that uses language that wouldn't allow individuals to have endless appeals in the courts . it's the way and the courts. it's the way and the star chamber have given chapter and verse on this , and it's all and verse on this, and it's all now up on the lawyers for britain website. so any of your viewers, any citizen of the uk can read it for themselves . can read it for themselves. we've published it deliberately as a public service. this bill means that individuals can keep tying the government up in legal knots. that's why it needs to be redraughted. >> it says in the small print of your your legal review today

that it needs very significant amendments which would change the character of the bill and is outside of the title's scope. that means any offering of amendments you might get overnight from the whips ain't going to work, right? >> well, the bill, because of the shape of it , because of its the shape of it, because of its style, if you like , its legal style, if you like, its legal structure , would be quite structure, would be quite difficult to amend. it would be far better to withdraw the bill and come up with something which is much better written right from the word go. >> we told this to the whips. are they aware of your feelings and rishi sunak in the covid inquiry? what would be your message him now ? message to him right now? >> well, i mean the prime minister very with minister will be very busy with the realise the covid inquiry. we realise that. the whips will. that. i'm sure the whips will. i was a whip once jumper. i'm sure the will have up on the whips will have picked up on the whips will have picked up on the outcome of that meeting. i should another should add there's another meeting this evening at 6 pm. of the new conservative. so they were at our meeting. they issued an open invite to any of those five backbench groups to go to their meeting at 6 pm. the

additional thing i think to mention on their behalf that mention on their behalf is that robert jenrick, who resigned over this bill on a point of honoun over this bill on a point of honour, he will be addressing that 6:00 meeting. >> a man behind us >> there's a man behind us holding up sign saying talking holding up a sign saying talking about and jesus and about hell and jesus saves and hell. there's a hell. do you think there's a snowball of snowball health in chance of this through this measure getting through tomorrow commons ? tomorrow in the commons? >> chopper. i'm >> i'm a politician chopper. i'm not. i'm not a priest. so i will i'm not going to venture on on questions of heaven or hell. >> this could be a confidence vote in the government now, couldn't it? if they can't get this through tomorrow, this government surely could. called an election. >> think now that the star >> i think now that the star chamber, who i think most people accept no their business, they've been through it with a fine tooth comb. a forensic analysis . they've concluded analysis. they've concluded that the bill isn't really fit for purpose . i very much hope that purpose. i very much hope that rather than plough on and damn the torpedoes , the government the torpedoes, the government will . exercise common will listen. exercise common sense , pull the legislation and sense, pull the legislation and come back with something that is fit for purpose . fit for purpose. >> what matters more, though, maybe a bill which sort of might

work or collapsing the government and i don't think it's an either or choice. >> chris, if i may, we've had two previous legislative attempts at this. the nationalities and borders bill that didn't quite work. the illegal immigration bill that didn't quite work. this really is last chance . so the is the last chance. so the government be well advised government would be well advised to get right. to get it right. >> francois , thank you. >> mark francois, thank you. well, you heard there from mark francois, chairman of the francois, the chairman of the european research group of tory mps he's this bill mps. he's saying this bill hasn't chance and the hasn't got a chance and the government should pull it . government should pull it. frankly, where takes us frankly, where this takes us next, we're not quite sure. back to the studio. to you in the studio. >> really fascinating stuff there, seems that there, chris. it seems that mark francois like a man who francois sounds like a man who wants against this bill, wants to vote against this bill, although, there although, of course, there are other the erg who other members of the erg who haven't made their minds. other members of the erg who haven areiade their minds. other members of the erg who haven are voting their minds. other members of the erg who haven are voting forair minds. other members of the erg who haven are voting for it minds. other members of the erg who haven are voting for it .ninds. other members of the erg who haven are voting for it. iinds. some are voting for it. i suppose question, suppose there's a question, chris, the erg will vote chris, whether the erg will vote as one bloc on this. chris, whether the erg will vote as one bloc on this . yes as one bloc on this. yes >> they didn't vote on how to vote in the meeting. if you forgive my tautology there in the meeting just now, they're going to meet again tonight at

six. i understand another meeting for tomorrow . meeting is planned for tomorrow. robert jenrick. the immigration minister them tonight. minister addresses them tonight. we're a very topsy turvy we're into a very topsy turvy roller coaster , 36 hours here in roller coaster, 36 hours here in westminster, which could result in an unprecedented historic defeat for the government, which could result in rac at an early election. i'll leave that thought. there >> high stakes indeed. leave us on that one. >> thank you very much, christopher hope, our political ednon christopher hope, our political editor. thank you for grabbing mark francois for us so soon after that was after his statement. that was great hear from the boss of great to hear from the boss of the erg, mark francois . he never the erg, mark francois. he never shies away from a debate. does he, mark? >> no punchy stuff there, punchy stuff. and again, saying that the bill should pulled, the bill should be pulled, whether or not the government acquiesces that demand acquiesces to that demand remains be seen. and it is remains to be seen. and it is worth noting that there are some members erg who have said members of the erg who have said that they will be voting for the legislation. fabricant legislation. michael fabricant has in the last ten minutes released a statement saying that he, of the erg , will he, as a member of the erg, will be voting for the legislation as the only way to get things done.

so perhaps not a uniform view there. >> well, we spoke to michael fabncant >> well, we spoke to michael fabricant week, didn't we? fabricant last week, didn't we? so perhaps can get him back so perhaps we can get him back to decision, to on understand his decision, why he's taken this decision . why he's taken this decision. but the infighting continues . but the infighting continues. the competing briefings continue to legal and otherwise . we shall to legal and otherwise. we shall wait for crunch time tomorrow when the vote actually takes place and see how many do vote with the government. but something else that is continuing and continuing, of course, is the covid inquiry with the prime minister taking the hot seat today. >> of course, he was the chancellor at the time of the pandemic. rishi sunak has been giving throughout this giving evidence throughout this morning and indeed this afternoon . and this piece of afternoon. and this piece of evidence really caught my eye because there has been a narrative formed that the scientists were saying one uniform thing and the politicians, these dastardly politicians, these dastardly politicians were sometimes going against the scientists . perhaps against the scientists. perhaps it wasn't quite that way. let's listen to what the prime minister on advice from minister said on the advice from sage. >> you know, my strong

recollection of those few weeks in march was that advice put in march was that advice was put to the government, to the prime minister from sage and advice was followed pretty much imminently on the same day in most cases, if not all cases dunng most cases, if not all cases during that period, the advice changed from sage during that penod changed from sage during that period that the government, when the advice changed, the government acted. the prime minister didn't say, i'm going to do this and then i'm going to change. we were sitting there, we when we we got the advice about when we should isolation, should implement self isolation, household , originally household isolation, originally not to close schools , not to ban not to close schools, not to ban mass events, things change, particularly on the 16th of march. that's when the advice from considerably march. that's when the advice from the considerably march. that's when the advice from the speed considerably march. that's when the advice from the speed of considerably about the speed of implementation. but again , the implementation. but again, the prime minister reacted . schools prime minister reacted. schools were closed on, i think that was announced on the 18th because that was put before the committee at the time . and committee at the time. and again, that was just acted on immediately , i think the same immediately, i think the same day, both on the 16th and the 18th. i think the prime minister stood same stood up the same day and announced those decisions and again, up to about, i again, even up to about, i think, 19th or of march. the

think, the 19th or of march. the view from sage , the view from view from sage, the view from the chief medical officer was that the existing measures that had been announced, if there was, words, 75% was, in their words, 75% compliance, they should do the trick. >> you know what my takeaway from that is, tom, because i know you have your views , but know you have your views, but mine is that the scientists were fallible, just as politicians were. get things wrong, fallible, just as politicians were. get things wrong , get were. get things wrong, get things right, have different interpretations of the data of the science, and mistakes are made . made. >> yes. and we can't forget that scientists changed their minds on the advice of masks, on the advice of whether or not this was surface transmission or airborne transmission. so many different piece pieces of knowledge were learnt and unlearnt throughout that period. but the most fascinating thing for me is that there is this weird narrative that the scientists were saying sort of from january that we should all lock down when they weren't. they were advising precisely the opposite start . and right opposite at the start. and right up until the 19th of march, they were voluntary measures. were saying voluntary measures.

the that were already the measures that were already announced suffice. they announced would suffice. they changed their mind. and then the government changed policy. >> sometimes like >> it did sometimes feel like decisions were made on whim as decisions were made on a whim as well. to hear from decisions were made on a whim as well. sunak to hear from decisions were made on a whim as well. sunak on to hear from decisions were made on a whim as well. sunak on how 1ear from decisions were made on a whim as well. sunak on how the from decisions were made on a whim as well. sunak on how the decisions rishi sunak on how the decisions were made for lockdown and to what extent the economy was taken into account. that was, after all, his brief . but we'll after all, his brief. but we'll also hear about the eat out to help been help out scheme, which has been characterised well very characterised as well very negatively some parties, negatively by some parties, although kate nicholls from the hospitality sector earlier said although kate nicholls from the h

colleagues throughout the day and digesting the ergs report before making a decision ahead of the vote tomorrow . of the vote tomorrow. >> this single issue has by far and large, been the single biggest issue of concern for my constituents over the last few years. and i'm concerned with the bill as it stands and if it doesn't do what we all want to see in terms of stopping the boats and ensuring that those who come here illegally , we can who come here illegally, we can no longer stay, then frankly, the bill isn't fit for purpose. and extremely concerned with and i'm extremely concerned with the initial feedback i've heard from the erg this morning and i will be speaking to colleagues ahead of a vote tomorrow before making a final decision. but frankly, if a bill doesn't do what has been sold to us, then what has been sold to us, then what is the point of proceeding with it at this stage? that's my concern at the moment . concern at the moment. >> scott. it's interesting that the erg, whilst saying that the bill should be pulled, hasn't yet made its mind up on whether or not it will advise mps to vote for or against the

legislation . an i suppose you legislation. an i suppose you could view this sort of in an ideal world you wouldn't be starting from this place. but i suppose is as written suppose the bill is as written there. it's been drafted up, it's got all this legal advice behind and the of behind it and all the rest of it. appearing you it. it's appearing before you tomorrow. given that that's the starting point, we can almost ignore the ideal world scenarios and you sort of almost have a binary choice here. well, perhaps a three way choice for against or abstain. do you believe that it's possible the bill could be tightened up at a later stage after being passed in second reading? could it be tightened up at report stage, in your view? well those are the questions which colleagues are currently discussing at present. >> tom. there would be potentially an opportunity to tighten the bill up and to eliminate the possibility of further legal challenges. and this these vexatious cycle of complaints from those who we should be deporting . and those should be deporting. and those questions could be reviewed at the committee stage . but i am

the committee stage. but i am concerned about some suggestions potentially that they may not in fact be in scope of the bill. and i think speaking to some erg colleagues over the last few moments, that is a position of some of those colleagues that if those possible amendments were not in scope at committee stage , not in scope at committee stage, then frankly, that begs the question as to whether or not the bill could or arguably should be pulled at this stage before the committee stage. then proceeds. clearly, every single concern lviv colleague will have to make a judgement call on this issue. but i'm listening to my constituents and if this doesn't do what we all want to see in terms of stopping the boats and in those endless cycles of lexus and vexatious litigations , then and vexatious litigations, then frankly, we will be back at square one with months to go later on next year to a general election, having not solved this single issue, which of course the prime minister has made one of his top five pledges, scott,

it's very difficult . it's very difficult. >> lots of our viewers and listeners are writing in who may well have been supportive of the rwanda plan initially and they're fed up. they're starting to think this isn't the right plan for stopping the boats. it's coming up against legal challenge after legal challenge . challenge after legal challenge. the government hasn't stopped a single boat, hasn't hasn't sent a single flight to rwanda . is it a single flight to rwanda. is it time for a plan b? actually, you've got the erg saying that this isn't going to stop the legal challenges. it's getting . legal challenges. it's getting. it's getting rather frustrating . it's getting rather frustrating. and well, this is a plan b, obviously, if we had have seen a different result with the court processes over the last few months, then we wouldn't be in this position. >> this is the prime minister's plan b and colleagues now have a decision as to whether or not they are going to support this bill tomorrow and then try and amend this potentially through the committee stage in the early

new year or frankly , see whether new year or frankly, see whether or not they don't think it's fit for purpose at this stage and they will potentially vote against it tomorrow. my concern , against it tomorrow. my concern, stuents and millions of people are in this country are sick and tired of the position. we now find ourselves in. we've had to signify acts of parliament which have gone through this building over the last few years. and on both of those occasions we were led up the hill as mps. we were told the bills were fit for purpose. we were told they would be good enough to stop the small boats and frankly they weren't. and i'm quite upset that some of the comments and suggestions made as those bills were going through parliament about potential notwithstanding clauses around the echr and our international obligations , those international obligations, those weren't listened to because if they were, i suspect those pieces of legislation would have beenin pieces of legislation would have been in a better position to actually stop the boats. but unfortunately we are where we are not an issue of getting

legislation on the book is sometimes a bit messy , but what sometimes a bit messy, but what i would appeal to the british pubucis i would appeal to the british public is bear with us. let's see what happens with this piece of legislation and then . i'm of legislation and then. i'm sorry, scott, is there not is there not an issue here with regard to the notwithstanding clauses ? clauses? >> because, of course, if you want to deport people from the united kingdom , you need to united kingdom, you need to deport them to somewhere now for better or worse, the country that the government has decided to do the deal with is rwanda. there's nowhere else that we would unless we did returns agreements with all 196 countries of the world, which i think is probably unlikely. you need a place to deport people to rwanda itself is saying that if there are these blanket notwithstanding clauses in the legislation, they would not support the deal . doesn't that support the deal. doesn't that create an almost impossible bind for the government ? i i create an almost impossible bind for the government? i i think

you've hit the nail on the head as far as the prime minister's position , tom, the prime position, tom, the prime minister's been quite clear over the few days saying this is the last few days saying this is the last few days saying this is the deal and the the best possible deal and the best possible option which rwanda would have signed off on, and that's why he's brought the deal and the plan before us, which we will now vote upon tomorrow. >> clearly, in terms of the last few years, i think we've left ourselves now in a position with very, very limited time before the next general election to try and get legislation on the books and get legislation on the books and deal conclusively with this issue. the british people will be watching closely and of course, they will judge us on our ability at the next election as to whether or not we have actually stopped the the actually stopped the boats. the pm says this is the best deal he's possibly got and that now presents colleagues with a decision whether or not decision about whether or not they support and then they support this and then possibly tighten this up at committee stage in the early new year. committee stage in the early new year . i'm committee stage in the early new year. i'm probably likely to support the bill tomorrow. i will be in meetings with

colleagues later , but colleagues later, but unfortunately we are now left in a position where essentially this is a take it or leave it piece of legislation . and if we piece of legislation. and if we want to have any chance whatsoever of trying to stop the boats and make sure we can get these planes off the ground to rwanda, then we need to see legislation go through . and legislation go through. and that's probably why i'm minded to support the bill. >> thank you very much. scott benton. thank you for your time. independent for blackpool independent mp for blackpool south. so likely to support the bill remain regardless of what the star chamber lawyers have said . but of course more said. but of course more meetings and more meetings at 6 pm. so it's going to be really fascinating if the bill passes at all, by what degree it passes , which can of

>> we've got this merry go round of prime ministers and of chancellors of the exchequer, huge instable party in the government. we seem to be back to that position now with the latest conservative prime minister's authority shredded once again and it really is time to give the british people their say rather than having a government in office where frankly its only purpose is trying to secure its own survival really isn't in the interests of the country . i interests of the country. i think it is for the british people to have their say as soon as possible. and that, frankly, is what the prime minister should be doing rather than just continuing in this way, causing damage to the country , which is

damage to the country, which is what's happening. >> how will you be voting on the bill tomorrow and how will your party, you speak labour party, when you speak for labour as ? as well tomorrow? >> well, we won't be supporting the rwanda plan. we believe it is a an unworkable failed , is a an unworkable failed, astronomically expensive scheme. so far the government has spent £290 million and that at the moment has produce travel to and from rwanda for three conservative home secretaries. and frankly , the government is and frankly, the government is just continuing to throw good money after bad on this scheme when actually what they should be doing is the difficult, painstaking work that's required to stop people crossing the channelin to stop people crossing the channel in these very vulnerable small boats . and first and small boats. and first and foremost, i would suggest redirect that money to a new cross border policing unit

within the national crime agency that can bust the criminal smuggler . that can bust the criminal smuggler. gangs get a grip of the asylum system . here in the the asylum system. here in the uk, 165,000 people at the moment are stuck in it,

>> welcome back. well, earlier , >> welcome back. well, earlier, mark francois from the european research group said the government should pull the rwanda bill because it has too

many holes in it. he says, but he did not say how he and his colleagues erg would colleagues in the erg would vote. the comes before vote. when the bill comes before the tomorrow. the commons tomorrow. >> it's interest thing. >> yes, it's an interest thing. conundrum. will the erg speak as one voice? will these five different groups of various right wing factions of the conservative party vote together? or might their coalition crumble under the pressure of the whips ? well, pressure of the whips? well, let's to olivia utley now let's speak to olivia utley now for the latest analysis and olivia, the whips must have been having a very, very busy time keeping not track of not just over 350 mps, but dozens and dozens of groups of them . dozens of groups of them. >> well, absolutely. life has been very, very difficult for the whips . the whips. >> and in the last sort of half hour or so, the government has really hit back against mark francois and the erg. >> the government has said that reiterated , i should say, that reiterated, i should say, that the bill as it stands, only makes very , very narrow makes very, very narrow provisions for people to potentially not be deported to

rwanda . in short, the erg rwanda. in short, the erg problem with the bill is that it isn't tough enough in that individual migrants would be able , hypothetically to complain able, hypothetically to complain that it was for illegal them specifically to be deported to rwanda. the bill would rule that rwanda. the bill would rule that rwanda is a safe country, but individual migrants could, in theory claim mitigating circumstances . now, the circumstances. now, the government has said this morning that it would be very, very difficult, in fact, for individuals to claim mitigating circumstance aces. it's admitted that isn't possible for that it isn't possible for parliament to rule that rwanda would safe for all possible would be safe for all possible individuals who might be deported there. but it suggests that the only possible way that a migrant could get out of being deported to rwanda would be, say, if it was unsafe them say, if it was unsafe for them to in the later stages of to fly in the later stages of pregnancy or if they had some sort of illness, complicated illness that be impossible illness that would be impossible to treat in rwanda . essentially, to treat in rwanda. essentially, it's a reiteration of what rishi sunak said about a week ago , sunak said about a week ago, which government's which was that the government's position and the position position and the erg position are only about an inch apart.

but it just shows what a big clash we're heading for tomorrow . the government has essentially dug its heels in this morning, says it's not going to seriously amend the bill. there might be little tweaks, but it doesn't sound like any serious amendments from the government side likely at all. and side are likely at all. and the erg said that essentially erg has said that essentially the government need to pull the bill and rewrite it bill bill and rewrite it completely. as you say , tom, the completely. as you say, tom, the erg actually said that it erg hasn't actually said that it will vote against the bill at this stage. they're going to be talking it more tonight, talking about it more tonight, etcetera. saying that etcetera. but after saying that it be pulled completely, it should be pulled completely, it's how it's very difficult to see how they then go on and vote they could then go on and vote for tomorrow . so we are for it tomorrow. so we are heading for a pretty huge clash. >> even if an individual >> also, even if an individual migrant fails to challenge their deportation in the domestic courts, they can refer their case still to strasbourg, to the echr. that's another level , echr. that's another level, isn't it? that's a potential potential for more legal challenges. and this is what the erg is so worried about.

challenges. and this is what the erg is so worried about . well absolutely. >> and that's why the erg and suella braverman wanted to go for a full fat option where by no one could under any circumstances go to the courts and say that it was unsafe for them personally to be deported to rwanda . the government says to rwanda. the government says that's just not possible. there will be a few people and the government maintains that it will be very, very few people who it is not safe for them to go to rwanda. and the bill has to leave some wiggle room for those exceptional individuals . those exceptional individuals. that's the government's stance. but as you say, the erg has said over and over again that there are just too many holes in this bill. so it's all to play for tomorrow. the other factor, of course, is whether the left wing mps in the conservative party the one nation, as they call themselves , are going to fall. themselves, are going to fall. it's thought that they will probably fall in line behind the bill, but i've heard a few of them say that they would be prepared vote with and prepared to vote with labour and definitely more would definitely a few more would

abstain. is still quite abstain. so it is still quite possible that rishi sunak cannot get this bill through parliament. and where on earth does that leave his premiership ? does that leave his premiership? >> i just >> thank goodness me. i just want say spencer's written want to say spencer's written in something. , olivia. something. thank you, olivia. appreciate on this. he appreciate your time on this. he says the tory party is so fragmented that it's like five smaller parties joined as one. what technically have is a what we technically have is a coalition government does feel like that when it comes to this particular policy, that's for sure. >> well, twas ever thus. to a certain extent, parties certain extent, all parties are coalition ers. and i suppose what first past the post does is sort force into two big sort of force them into two big blocs, or less . the labour blocs, more or less. the labour party has lots of factions as well. i suppose just sometimes they're much visible they're much more visible than at times they're not at other times they're not fighting so much in the labour party at the moment at least. maybe it's because so many of those have the those that would have done the fighting out . i fighting have been booted out. i don't you go. don't know. there you go. >> go . restore order. actually >> hang on, hang on. i say that, but i'm completely wrong . we but i'm completely wrong. we just the last mass just had the last mass resignation from the from the shadow frontbench that we've

seen since the last prime minister was toppled . yes. minister was toppled. yes. i mean, i mean, it's not all harmony on the labour. on the labour side. i did, i did think harmony on the labour. on the laboas side. i did, i did think harmony on the labour. on the laboas soon i did, i did think harmony on the labour. on the laboas soon asid, i did think harmony on the labour. on the labo as soon as thoseid think harmony on the labour. on the labo as soon as those wordsk harmony on the labour. on the labo as soon as those words left that as soon as those words left my thought i'd my mouth, but i thought i'd leave you , it correct us. leave it to you, it correct us. it is interesting though, isn't it? party it? you know, the tory party tells media tells itself apart and media focuses on it, i suppose, because government. because it is the government. but party has been but the labour party has been tearing apart over gaza . tearing itself apart over gaza. you've had the scottish labour party voting differently from the english the leadership of the english labour the rest of labour party, all the rest of it. not getting much it. it's not getting as much airtime. here go . our leaders it. it's not getting as much airnot�*. here go . our leaders it. it's not getting as much airnot havere go . our leaders it. it's not getting as much airnot have the go . our leaders it. it's not getting as much air not have the authorityr leaders it. it's not getting as much air not have the authority theyiers do not have the authority they once perhaps. or was it once had, perhaps. or was it ever thus? yeah. >> maybe it's just sort of >> well, maybe it's just sort of 24 hour news and social media and all the rest of it. that is exposes the divisions in a in a greater way than i mean, churchill never had to deal with this stuff, did it? >> well, if you're going >> well, i mean, if you're going to press statements outside to have press statements outside portcullis house to discuss legislation portcullis house to discuss legislati0|that creates a media tomorrow that creates a media storm, does it not? but coming up, have our panel in up, we will have our panel in the studio. they'll be helping us react to rishi sunak us to react to rishi sunak breaking about his breaking revelations about his eat out to help out scheme . but

eat out to help out scheme. but first, it's your news headlines . first, it's your news headlines. >> thanks, emily. here are the headunes >> thanks, emily. here are the headlines at 232. the government's rwanda legislation provides a partial and incomplete solution. according to the so—called star chamber of lawyers, a legal team for the erg group of tory mps says the plan may be the toughest action yet, but it doesn't go far enough to achieve. the prime minister's stated aim of stopping the boats . mps are due stopping the boats. mps are due to vote on the bill tomorrow, but erg chairman mark francois says a complete rewrite might be the only option. we all want to stop the boats . stop the boats. >> there have been two legislative attempts at this already. the nationalities and borders act that didn't quite work. the illegal immigration act that didn't quite work. so this is kind of three strikes and you're out, isn't it? so what is really important is if

we're going to put a bill through parliament to have a piece of legislation which is fit for purpose , as the bill is fit for purpose, as the bill is currently drafted, it isn't . currently drafted, it isn't. >> the prime minister has defended what he called vigorous debate among senior government figures during the pandemic. he said disagreements were appropriate when making such significant decisions. earlier. rishi sunak began his evidence at the covid inquiry with an apology to those who'd lost loved ones . speaking outside the loved ones. speaking outside the inquiry , family members of those inquiry, family members of those who died during the pandemic said the prime minister's words weren't enough to address the damage caused day. >> what the prime minister should now take credit for was releasing a new wave of death and disease . rishi sunak's one and disease. rishi sunak's one man mission to torpedo lockdown to gain a competitive advantage resulted in the false economy of sacrificing tens of thousands of lives to save the economy. today

the covid bereaved do not accept that his empty words of sorrow and it is of note that the prime minister has failed to utter one word of apology . now word of apology. now >> so if you're hoping for a white christmas , you may have to white christmas, you may have to settle for a wet one. 44 flood warnings are in place across england with heavy rain and high winds expected . yellow warnings winds expected. yellow warnings for rain have also been issued for rain have also been issued for eastern scotland from tomorrow morning until the early hours of wednesday. it follows a weekend of washout with storms sweeping across the country . sweeping across the country. those are the top stories. and you can, of course , get more on you can, of course, get more on each of those. just visit our website at gbnews.com . for website at gbnews.com. for a valuable legacy your family can own. >> gold coins will always shine bright. rosalind gold proudly sponsors the gb news financial report is a quick look at

today's markets. >> the pound will buy you 1.257, $8 at ,1.1688. the price of gold is £1,585.33 per ounce. and the ftse 100 is . at 7569 points. ftse 100 is. at 7569 points. >> rosalind gold proudly sponsors the gb news financial report . report. >> well, emily, you'll never guess what's happened. what the moment the nation has been waiting for. we've all sat on on tenterhooks for this very moment at the covid inquiry. rishi sunak has finally been asked about eat out to help out. >> goodness me, you won't want to miss this . what is he going to miss this. what is he going to miss this. what is he going to say? we'll be back

sunday mornings from 930 on gb news is . right now. news is. right now. >> we promised you the very latest on rishi sunak in the covid inquiry with regards to the eat out to help out scheme, which now has become very controversial. our reporter ray addison is live to give us the latest . ray, what is the latest? latest. ray, what is the latest? what's happened? what's rishi sunak said about the eat out to help out scheme . help out scheme. >> good afternoon to you both. well rishi sunak facing a bit of a grilling this afternoon. let's say things have heated up no say things have heated up and no mistake here at the covid inquiry , of course, eat out to inquiry, of course, eat out to help out rishi sunak scheme from the treasury introduced after

the treasury introduced after the first lockdown in august of 2020 and a quite a defence of rishi sunak facing questions from kc hugo keefe, the inquiry's lead counsel. rishi saying that the scheme was very successful, very popular . but of successful, very popular. but of course now there are concerns that it did fuel a spike in infection and deaths. now rishi sunak saying that he believed it was the right thing to do at the time and he still believes that it was the right thing to do . it was the right thing to do. the then pushed back, the kc then pushed back, pointing this concept, pointing out that this concept, the was never put in the scheme was never put in front of the government's chief medical officer and other scientists . rishi responded by scientists. rishi responded by saying that he didn't believe it was a risk and there was never any concerns raised , raised with any concerns raised, raised with him and there was about a month, just under a month between the scheme actually being announced and the implementation of eat out to help out. he says his primary concern was to protect

millions of jobs. around 2 millions of jobs. around 2 million jobs of vulnerable people who work within the hospitality sector. he also pointed out that those hospitality restrictions , many hospitality restrictions, many of them were being lifted anyway , and therefore this scheme was just in addition to that. now we know that at the time the chief medical officer, chris whitty , medical officer, chris whitty, subsequently branded the policy eat out to help out the virus . eat out to help out the virus. angela mclean . she's now the angela mclean. she's now the uk's chief scientific adviser. she branded rishi sunak dr. death and now since the pandemic itself , there's been one itself, there's been one scientific study that has found that areas with a higher take up of this scheme did in the subsequent weeks see an increase in people testing positive for covid and then a decrease once the scheme actually ended . the scheme actually ended. although there is much debate about the validity and significance of that study. now, the kc asked the prime minister if the scheme was so good, so safe, so successful, why was it

actually not extended and at a later date and mr sunak said it was designed just purely to get a temporary response . he denied a temporary response. he denied that there were subsequent concerns about the infection rates, and that's despite that former health secretary matt hancock telling the inquiry that he later expressed concerns to the treasury about the increased risk of transmission. mr sunak saying he never heard that. he also says that mr hancock has subsequently said that too much emphasis has been put on that comment and that created quite a fiery response from the kc himself, who said it's for this inquiry to decide what issues we focus on, not you , prime focus on, not you, prime minister. well ray, thank you so much for bringing us. >> that sounds like a testy exchange there between the prime minister hugo keith kc, minister and hugo keith kc, thanks bringing us that live thanks for bringing us that live outside covid inquiry well, outside the covid inquiry well, joining us to discuss exactly what's going on in that inquiry ,

what's going on in that inquiry, but also some of the other big stories of the day is the former editor sunday editor of the sunday express, martin and the former martin townsend, and the former labour mp simon danczuk. martin townsend, and the former labour mp simon danczuk . martin, labour mp simon danczuk. martin, let's start with you, because ray there referenced the eat out to help out scheme. now controversial . well, i suppose controversial. well, i suppose it is interesting that they didn't revive it the following summer. does that mean perhaps people in government thought it was unnecessary? >> i think i think probably that people in government always have a look at the cost and it probably was costing a lot of money and some sort of, you know, equation was done and they decided not to continue with it. >> think it had anything >> i don't think it had anything to it. suggestion to do with it. any suggestion that was spreading virus that it was spreading the virus and reading and i don't remember reading anything that. i think anything about that. and i think richie, scientist, i think richie, for a scientist, i think it a scientist to label it was a scientist to label rishi dr. death when rishi sunak dr. death when scientists were continually giving complete inaccurate modelling. i mean, it's extraordinary to me in this covid inquiry that the scientists seem to have be being completely ignored and the politicians are having their

whatsapp. you know, there was a whole argument morning whole argument this morning about whatsapp about where's this whatsapp message, where's that whatsapp message, where's that whatsapp message ? message? >> seems to be using >> hugo keith seems to be using it an as of witch hunt it as an as a kind of witch hunt against tories and against it as an as a kind of witch hunt aga governmentzs and against it as an as a kind of witch hunt aga government rather against it as an as a kind of witch hunt aga government rather than|st the government rather than trying to get to the truth of it and it is it was pandemic. >> nobody could predict anything. we've seen the anything. we've seen that the scientists continue scientists would continue predicting it all wrong . predicting it all wrong. >> politicians responsible politicians like rishi sunak and i believe boris johnson at the time were trying to do the right thing and follow the science, which was frequently wrong . which was frequently wrong. >> you know, this this this inquiry . for >> you know, this this this inquiry. for me, it's >> you know, this this this inquiry . for me, it's necessary inquiry. for me, it's necessary because we want to know what we need do next round. need to do next time round. >> they're about it >> but they're going about it entirely wrong way. entirely the wrong way. >> out why that >> let's find out why that modelling was wrong. how can we put in future and put it right in the future and how can we in any way predict how can we in any way predict how a virus is going to react? we don't even know really whether it's crowded rooms or it's outside in the air where this things travels the most. >> think we know that sort >> i think we do know that sort of two years of data, we of after two years of data, we can pretty, pretty say that can pretty, pretty well say that

if having dinner outside if you're having dinner outside in the big fresh air and everything's going everywhere . everything's going everywhere. if you're martin raises a very good point there that the covid modelling hasn't been under as much well, hasn't been under the spotlight as politicians spotlight as much as politicians whatsapps and messages. >> and what i would say is that, you know, there's a disagreement here between rishi sunak and what patrick vallance and chris whitty had to say. chris whitty and vallance said they weren't asked the eat out to help asked about the eat out to help out scheme and whether it would be spreading the virus. be bad for spreading the virus. and sunak says oh well and rishi sunak says oh well they had every opportunity that they had every opportunity that they could to raise any concerns if they'd had them about the scheme. i mean who to believe . scheme. i mean who to believe. >> well, that's a good question, but i think we believe but i think we should believe the small businesses in hospitality who say this did a lot of good. it really saved their businesses . lot of good. it really saved their businesses. i think it was a smart, imaginative , creative a smart, imaginative, creative policy solution at the time in exceptional circumstances. i thought it was a good move at the time, and i think it even reflecting on it now, i think it

was a smart move by the government. i think they had to take some action of some kind. and this this happened to work. >> saw the >> but simon, we saw the following summer when restrictions were removed, people to these people flooded back to these businesses. they didn't need an £800 million from the taxpayer to do so. >> well, you can say that now, and in reflection. but and that's in reflection. but but people did appreciate the offer there . and i offer that was there. and i think of morale at this think in terms of morale at this time, forget it was like time, we forget what it was like dunng time, we forget what it was like during pandemic. it was the during the pandemic. it was the mindset different. during the pandemic. it was the mirthet different. during the pandemic. it was the mirthe following rent. people >> the following year, people were more the lockdown were more tired of the lockdown measures we had. the vaccine. people were braver. we had the vaccine time of eat out vaccine at the time of eat out to help out. if remember to help out. if i remember correctly , quite now. correctly, it's quite hard now. people more cautious. people were far more cautious. so was perhaps was more so what was perhaps was more needed at that time? >> the flip side of that is we did this sort of august sugar rush, got people crowded into rooms, declaring the rooms, whatever, declaring the pandemic year and a half pandemic over a year and a half before it was actually over. might it have been the case that if we sort of more if we were sort of more cautious, then we wouldn't have had restrict lviv tiers

had such restrict lviv tiers that then came in in september ? that then came in in september? could we have had fewer restrictions later by being rather than this sugar rush, then restrict option? if we were more steady throughout it, we should have had a more sophisticated approach to the lockdown. >> my view. should lockdown. >> lockedy view. should lockdown. >> lockedyviewthe should lockdown. >> lockedy viewthe vulnerable have locked down the vulnerable and to make and allowed people to make up their own about whether their own minds about whether they whether they are vulnerable, whether they are vulnerable, whether they restrict their they need to restrict their actions , etcetera. we should actions, etcetera. we should have trusted the public more. >> i agree with that. and i also think we have to bear in mind that on in some that life had to go on in some way, shape or form after the pandemic and to allow loads of to your point, simon, about to allow loads of small businesses to go down, loads of restaurants to go down, loads of restaurants to be ruined. >> people's lose their jobs, etcetera, etcetera, life had to go on after covid. >> and we've now actually, >> and we've seen now actually, you know, the repercussions from covid are going to go on for years and years and years. >> so it's right remember >> so it's right to remember that thankfully we were able to continue working from home and were able to do our jobs from home for a lot of people, they

lost huge amounts of work and of course the self—employed didn't receive much way of receive as much in the way of money from the government. shall we shocking , sorry, we move on to a shocking, sorry, shocking video that we saw this morning showing xl bully dogs or what appears to be xl bully dogs. we don't know for sure if they are xl bullies , but a bit they are xl bullies, but a bit of fight out at of a fight breaking out at stratford station in london. well here's the images now and it seems like these dogs have just gone berserk. >> unmuzzled as they are, and it really does sort of highlight the issue of these powerful dogs very hard to control. you can see the way that one is just jumping after a man, pulling him to the ground . and it's very, to the ground. and it's very, very hard for people to control these powerful dogs that can turn on a moment's notice and sort of have this base instinct to attack because simon, i suppose what many people say and the reason the ban has been brought in is that some dogs have traits . all dogs have

have traits. all dogs have traits, retrievers retrieve pointers , point and dogs that pointers, point and dogs that came from dogs that were bred specifically for fighting have this instinct to fight. >> yeah. and what people will find most worrying about this is a very public place. it's on a train station, a woman with two dogs that she quite clearly can't control . and it could have can't control. and it could have easily killed the gentleman that's that's been attacked . and that's that's been attacked. and the solution has to be twofold . the solution has to be twofold. we have to get rid of dogs that are that have been bred in that way. i'm sorry to say, but they have to be got and then have to be got rid of. and then we have have more we have to have much more stringent against stringent legislation against the owners of such dogs. i mean, it's the owners. there should really face the full throttle of the law. >> martin one of our gb news presenters, pip tomson, is. she's a lover of dogs, and she's absolutely adamant that this is down to the owners themselves and not the dogs. where do you stand in the debate about, you know, can a dog be bad or is it

always the owner that's bad? >> well, i mean, i think simon's right about certain dogs are bred to do certain things. these dogs are huge, powerful . i mean, dogs are huge, powerful. i mean, i don't know what they weigh, but they're more like small bears are dogs. bears than they are dogs. i think for something like that to happen at a railway station is people. >> it's very lucky somebody wasn't killed there. >> it looked a moment >> so it looked for a moment there like one of the dogs was going somebody going to drag somebody underneath train, which underneath the train, which i think underneath the train, which i tigrew up on a i grew up on i grew up on a i grew up on a council of fairly rough council estate in north london. and in the 60s we had packs of dogs wandering around in the streets. and i remember being chased when i was kid, being chased on my i was a kid, being chased on my bike remember people bike by dogs. i remember people in being bitten by in the street being bitten by dogs. a terrifying thing dogs. it's a terrifying thing when turns you. i've when a dog turns on you. i've i've got a little dog. i'm a dog owner and everything. but when a dog turns around, it's absolutely terrifying. >> you, >> when the dog turns on you, that has the capability of killing you. >> w >> these are weapons. and i think the law should react think that the law should react to these in the same way that they would to knives or guns. if

you're if you've got a dog like that and you're out it's out of control streets and control on the streets and you're control you're supposed to be in control of as well of it, you may as well be carrying or gun carrying a knife or a gun because could child because it could kill a child very easily. we've had six people in year. people killed in a year. >> crazy. you >> yeah, it's crazy. you can have have a lifelong have you can have a lifelong fear. as you were fear. yes if as a child you were chased a dog or harmed by chased by a dog or harmed by a dog, i remember my brother running across the entirety of a park , it seemed, because park, it seemed, because there was chasing him. and i was a dog chasing him. and i don't the dog meant any don't think the dog meant any harm. can give you harm. but it really can give you a for many years to come. a fear for many years to come. it's terrifying. >> martin, right >> but martin, you're so right that some that people i think to some extent, that it's extent, the argument that it's the owner comes because there's a type of individual who a certain type of individual who will most aggressive dog will buy the most aggressive dog and the most aggressive looking dog, as well as a status symbol. if they can't own a gun, they'll have as an attack as have this as an attack dog, as a guard dog, they clip the guard dog, and they clip the ears. something that's illegal. but these dogs but so many of these dogs have cupped but so many of these dogs have clipped ears to even more clipped ears to look even more aggressive i think aggressive and evil. and i think that to some extent, sometimes bad people own these dogs. but there's also something in the dna of these dogs that is more aggressive . but it's fascinating

aggressive. but it's fascinating , controversial that lots of people would disagree with you, although i tend to agree. >> yeah. have for >> yeah. do we have time for nigel farage? >> we might because. >> i think we might because. >> i think we might because. >> yes, let's have look . oh, >> yes, let's have a look. oh, well, we don't have a clip there. sorry. got that one wrong, but we want to discuss . wrong, but we want to discuss. sorry, tom. we want to discuss whether nigel farage would make a good conservative leader because it seems he's saying never say never when it comes to rejoining politics. >> yes, i think he's going to play >> yes, i think he's going to play a significant part in politics going forward . that's politics going forward. that's my prediction. think there's my prediction. i think there's going to be a shift to the right in this country and a lot of it relates to immigration. there's going be a shift to the going to be a shift to the right, creates a real right, and that creates a real opportunity for nigel to shine in some way. >> fascinating. >> it's fascinating. martin, because had not because nigel farage has had not one sort of career, but almost. he's he's already had another comeback, he he he got comeback, right? he he he got ukip from nothing to winning the european . and then european elections. and then from scratch, he built the brexit the brexit party, which then won the european elections . could he do european elections. could he do it time? european elections. could he do it i time? european elections. could he do it i thinkime? european elections. could he do it i think her? european elections. could he do it i think he could . >> i think he could. >> i think he could. >> i think he could. >> i mean, one of the

interesting things that watching >> i mean, one of the interest i'mthings that watching >> i mean, one of the interest i'm a ings that watching >> i mean, one of the interesti'm a celebrity watching >> i mean, one of the interesti'm a celebrity isitching >> i mean, one of the interesti'm a celebrity is the ng him on i'm a celebrity is the way that quietly kept pushing way that he quietly kept pushing the people the idea of people having different opinions , being able different opinions, being able to debate in a fair way when he when was kind being goaded when he was kind of being goaded into about into having arguments about brexit by some of the other campmates, he'd make the point, look, i completely your opinion. >> i hope you would >> i, i would hope you would respect opinion . there respect my opinion. there was somebody didn't somebody in there that didn't even worked in europe. even know he'd worked in europe. you it as an mp in europe you know, it as an mp in europe for years. so he was on for many years. so he was on a sort of mission really to show himself of fairness himself as the face of fairness and democracy, i think in and democracy, which i think in many is this country. many ways he is in this country. i think he much, much better outside the conservative party, especially at the moment. >> better actually >> he's much better actually working with the reform party. >> i would say this time around. and yes, he definitely has a very good future in politics on that. >> it's worth it's worth saying that nigel farage was scathing of both conservative of both the conservative leadership and that of the labour party . so it doesn't look labour party. so it doesn't look like he's going swooping like he's going to be swooping in but who knows? in any time soon. but who knows? never never. in any time soon. but who knows? ne\well never. in any time soon. but who knows? ne\well , never. in any time soon. but who knows? ne\well , i|ever. in any time soon. but who knows? ne\well , i suppose that's all we >> well, i suppose that's all we have time for. thank you so

much, simon. and indeed , martin, much, simon. and indeed, martin, for joining and talking forjoining us and talking through big stories. and through those big stories. and thank for home watching thank you at for home watching along. we'll be back, course, along. we'll be back, of course, tomorrow from but up tomorrow from midday. but up next, it's martin daubney. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers spot answers of up. boxt boilers spot answers of weather on gb news . afternoon. weather on gb news. afternoon. >> i'm alex deakin. this is your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. after a fine monday . met office for gb news. after a fine monday. for most of us, we're back to some heavy downpours tomorrow and some gusty also start to head gusty winds also start to head into northern ireland through this evening. ahead of that, we've had a few showers today over eastern scotland. they'll we've had a few showers today over going,i scotland. they'll we've had a few showers today over going,i scotla|many,ey'll we've had a few showers today over going,i scotla|many, it's keep going, but for many, it's a fine evening . here comes the fine evening. here comes the rain, though, could some rain, though, could cause some problems ireland problems in northern ireland as it most of the it lingers for most of the night. potential for a bit of flooding. do met flooding. so we do have a met office yellow warning in place. the will move through the rain will move through across england, wales and into southern . and a mild southern scotland. and a mild night tonight in the south, but pretty chilly across northern scotland . touch frost, just scotland. a touch of frost, just

about possible . that rain will about possible. that rain will then spread parts of then spread into parts of south—east scotland, north—east england where again, england tomorrow, where again, likely to linger. and because it's so wet , it could it's been so wet, it could cause some issues in the some further issues in the south. heavy showers likely tomorrow. potential for some thunderstorms, even hail stones likely for many. it's a cloudy day with rain on and off, some dner day with rain on and off, some drier and brighter spells, quite mild in the south, double digits, maybe even into the teens, but chilly again. further north, such a frost on wednesday morning across scotland and northern ireland, further outbreaks , but not as outbreaks of rain, but not as heavy, course , these eastern heavy, of course, these eastern areas. during wednesday . so areas. during wednesday. so quite day for eastern quite a grey day for eastern england, but elsewhere it's actually drier actually turning drier and brighter through the course of wednesday. this weather front will bring a bit of rain in on wednesday but look at wednesday night. but look at this moving this high pressure moving in from and that from midweek onwards and that should start to dry. things out. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boiler as sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> good afternoon. 3:00. >> good afternoon. 3:00. >> i'm martin daubney. it's monday. this is gb news. welcome to the show. i'm here for the next three hours. we're going to have top story have a stonking show top story today. have a stonking show top story today . rishi is rwanda now today. rishi is rwanda now nightmare. we called it on thursday on this show. first, this bill is not fit for purpose. today, the tory star

chamber put 13 holes in this . chamber put 13 holes in this. they say it's not going to do the job either. now, the next step is this could there be a commons rebellion tomorrow to soft for the tory right to hard for the tory wets? is sunak going to be sunk by rwanda? he's fresh out of the jungle, but not short of a word or two. listen to this is a total shambles. rudderless leaderless, utterly useless and headed for catastrophe at the next general election. apart from that, farage was full of praise for the conservative party. but people are saying, is it time for the king of the jungle to have a tory comeback and a golden ticket of farage? and bons golden ticket of farage? and boris can they save the beleaguered conservative party? and he probably fancied a day off from all of the nightmare about rwanda. covid inquiry today. rishi sunak was there facing questions about eat out to help out and also just like

prime minister boris johnson,