we've been joined by a specialist dive team who are in the water now and they're supporting the search in terms of getting into those deeper parts of the river wensum, which then obviously supports all of then obviously supports all of the search work that we've already done here at the river politics now. >> and tory infighting was a big focus of today's christmas themed prime minister's questions. the final session of the year , 38 rebel conservative the year, 38 rebel conservative mps chose to abstain last night from a vote on the safety of rwanda bill, but it still passed with a majority of 44. the labour leader , sir keir starmer, labour leader, sir keir starmer, took aim, accusing the government of being in meltdown. but rishi sunak hit back, saying the numbers on migration and the economy speak for themselves . economy speak for themselves. >> votes down by a third. and crucially, as we heard from my honourable friend, tax cuts coming to help working families in the new year , mr speaker, he in the new year, mr speaker, he can spin it all he likes, but the whole country can see that yet again. >> the tory party is in meltdown

and everyone else is paying the price . right now. he's kicked price. right now. he's kicked the can. he kicked the can down the can. he kicked the can down the road . but in the last week the road. but in the last week his his mps, his mps have said of him he's not capable enough. he's inexperienced, he's arrogant and a really bad politician. >> sir keir starmer , now a man >> sir keir starmer, now a man who strangled a pensioner to death and then went on a spending spree with her savings, has been jailed for at least 31 years. 71 year old susan haughey was tortured in her north—west london home in september last year by sir howard, who forced to her give up her bank card and pin number. hours later, the 24 year old and his girlfriend , year old and his girlfriend, chelsea grant, spent £13,000 of her money on luxury goods. grant was also jailed for 15 years . was also jailed for 15 years. greater manchester has decided to scrap a controversial scheme

for a clean air zone . the mayor, for a clean air zone. the mayor, andy burnham, is promising drivers won't have to pay to use roads. he's unveiled alternative plans to control air pollution in the city. instead, leaders say investment in buses and taxis will bring clean air to the region much faster than charging drivers just over £50 million is earmarked for electric buses and £30 million in grants for cleaner taxis . in grants for cleaner taxis. city leaders have pledged to achieve air pollution targets by 2025. that's a year earlier than planned . that's the news on gb planned. that's the news on gb news across the uk, on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. this is britain's news channel all . and a very news channel all. and a very good evening. >> welcome to farage here on gb news. well the day after the

night before excuse me. and you might wonder what was all the fuss about. there was all that great noise. the five families coming out and pontificating and yet the vote passed. 44, you might say that's quite comfortable. i think many would feel that it was, and i suspect that the prime minister, rishi sunak , slept a lot more soundly sunak, slept a lot more soundly than had been feared last night. so of saying, so now we're sort of saying, well, what's the impact of all of to of that? how long is it going to take to get this legislation through? take to get this legislation ththrough.7 they say they will. it through? they say they will. many others question on that. and , will it make any and actually, will it make any difference whatsoever? what will be the extent of the claims that are put forward ? and will those are put forward? and will those claims go all the way through the court of appeal to the supreme court and of course, to the echr , which of course, the echr, which of course, stopped that in the process? well, we'll be debating all of that. and my question to you on this, of course , is, i mean, the

this, of course, is, i mean, the prime minister says very convincingly this is his this is the big deterrent . this will the big deterrent. this will stop the boats. he's absolutely. nailed his colours to that mast. so my question to you, viewers and listeners is, do you believe the prime minister is this a deterrent? is it going to work? that's the big question . then. that's the big question. then. they've spent hundreds of millions of pounds on it. do you think it's a deterrent? is it going to work? well, i suspect maybe the prime minister had a bit more sleep last night than my first guest on the show. you may recognise him because actually it's his show. nigel, a very warm welcome back to your show, back to these shores . show, back to these shores. fantastic to have you back. it must be a bit of almost like a culture shock. >> well, it is. and to be a guest on my own show is quite novel. i mean, anybody saying, of course, would have got got back from australia and gone to bed. that's why here bed. but that's why i'm here now. i couldn't resist it. and there is just so much to talk

about, there ? amazing. about, isn't there? amazing. i mean , i like mark francois as mean, i like mark francois as a person, the erg boss, but like the grand old duke of york , you the grand old duke of york, you know, he's marched the troops up to the top of the hill and then he's marched them down again. >> exactly as you predicted. let's just remind ourselves what nigel said on on monday, on this show when he was in australia . show when he was in australia. >> will the backbenchers have the guts to vote it down? well, normally they march up to the top of the hill and they march back down again. most of them are a pretty spineless bunch . i are a pretty spineless bunch. i hope that i'm proved wrong. what is certain is that sunak is is for certain is that sunak is on course to lead the conservative party to their worst election result in modern times. and frankly , i think they times. and frankly, i think they deserve pretty much everything that's coming to them . that's coming to them. >> so there you are. but the prime minister the home secretary, they'll be feeling a bit more, a bit more confident, a bit more comfortable. well,

confident , confident. confident, confident. >> they've got the party under control . feel confident that the control. feel confident that the rebels, frankly, haven't got the courage of their own convictions. i mean, how how can you one day argue that what's being done will make no blooming difference and then the next day effectively go along with it by just sitting on the benches, abstaining and allowing the government the really government to win? the really big question here, as you say, is will this make any difference anyway? and answer is anyway? okay. and the answer is absolutely number one, it absolutely not. number one, it won't stop any of the of the individual legal claims. won't stop any of the of the individual legal claims . and we individual legal claims. and we know just how long that whole process and the big process takes. and the big picture, this is all fiddling while rome burns. the big picture. and we saw this when that first flight couldn't leave for rwanda, when a nameless judge probably not somebody even trained in law . i know it sounds trained in law. i know it sounds bonkers, but these are the so—called jurists that sit in strasbourg on the echr court. all the while, that court is there. we are not in control of

policy . we're not in control of policy. we're not in control of deportations . and so, frankly, deportations. and so, frankly, it doesn't matter what sunak says, you know, for successive tory leaders have promised us they'll deal with illegal immigration and we're no closer. >> now, the prime minister has been saying a lot recently as has his his cabinet members, that actually the are that actually the numbers are down this year when in the down 30% this year when in the mediterranean they're up by well over 50. so that's his line of argument . but this deterrent argument. but this deterrent point is key . argument. but this deterrent point is key. now argument. but this deterrent point is key . now whilst you're point is key. now whilst you're away, mark white was in northern france and he did a really interesting report for gb news. he spoke to some of the migrants. i think we got a clip here of actually what one of the migrants was saying to mark white about the deterrent effect , mentioned rwanda and the people here in the camps just laugh. >> it's become a bit of a joke. the threat hasn't put them off because no one here thinks for a second they're heading back to rwanda. if they make it to the uk. so that's the key point. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and once again, once again, mark doing fantastic work

mark white doing fantastic work for us here at gb news. it is no deterrent. it . deterrent. everyone knows it. and whilst the numbers are down, if i'd said to you five years ago that you know, 30,000 young men would cross the english channelin men would cross the english channel in dinghies and be allowed to stay, i mean, you'd have thought i'd been smoking something. so the fact the numbers are not as bad as last yean numbers are not as bad as last year, you know, to hang year, frankly, you know, to hang on really cold on to that is really cold comfort farm. >> and also we've learned in the last week that their place in the government is placing contract the contract for managing the arrivals and manston up arrivals in dover and manston up until 2030, about £700 million worth of contracts . but as you worth of contracts. but as you say, all of this in a sense is modest, although signify isn't compared to the other big news. when you away the lawful immigration numbers increased by 20% in 22 to 745,000. >> i mean, nobody did more to try and highlight the cross—channel problem than me going out repeated into the channel asking why our mainstream channels were not covering this issue. so i've sort of in some senses owned

this from the beginning, and yet i am going to admit now it is very small beer compared to legal migration into britain. and these richard , are arguments and these richard, are arguments i've been making publicly for well over a decade that we simply cannot deal with the numbers. and whether that is having any hope of getting a gp appointment , having any hope of getting a gp appointment, any having any hope of getting a gp appointment , any prospect of appointment, any prospect of your kids or grandkids ever getting themselves onto the housing ladder, the near impossible reality as christmas approaches of driving around our motorways to go and visit family, our quality of life is diminishing directly. as a result of a population crisis caused by a government that frankly isn't concerned about the numbers. you know why? because they're in hock to big businesses. >> that's right. and of course, to the universities. and later in the show, we're going to actually be talking about what i think is an abuse of the international visa scheme. but before that, down the line, we've got james johnson, who's the co—founder of the jlp

partners, former special adviser to the former prime minister theresa may, ran number 10 polling strategy. james, a very good evening. thank you for joining us on farage here on gb news. so you're polling all the time. i just want to touch first, please, james, on a poll that i think was done by someone else than yourself with regard to the percentage of the population who think actually this is going to have any deterrent effect at all. i think it was yougov suggested it might only be 1% of the population . only be 1% of the population. can it really be that low ? can it really be that low? >> well , i'll can it really be that low? >> well, i'll certainly at the moment the public's view is that the flights aren't going to rwanda, which is which is the truth. so therefore, like just in your mark whyte piece there, people don't believe it's going to happen and they don't believe it's going to have any effect. now, if that were to change and actually started to take actually flights started to take off, then i think the scheme pubuc off, then i think the scheme public may well change their minds but at the minds on the scheme. but at the moment looking at this

moment they are looking at this and they're looking at, you know, the government's disarray. and sunak, i and if i were rishi sunak, i wouldn't much heart from wouldn't take much heart from the yesterday. the vote result yesterday. it bought of time, but bought them a bit of time, but this have been an easy, this should have been an easy, straightforward for him. to straightforward vote for him. to the voters, this just shows chaos nearer in chaos and getting no nearer in their to a solution. their mind to a solution. >> you think the >> do you think with the government's confidence from government's confidence now from last 44 vote victory last night, that 44 vote victory , do you think in a sense that the prime minister might actually convince the electorate actually convince the electorate a bit more over the next couple of that actually it's on of weeks that actually it's on track ? he's in control. he's track? he's in control. he's going to get it through the house lords. get the house of lords. he'll get the support his his mps and that support of his his mps and that maybe in the new year those polling numbers might improve for him in terms of convincing people it's a deterrent . people it's a deterrent. >> well, look, faith in the conservatives is so low, both going back to the fall of boris johnson when liz truss's mini—budget and what they see as a lack of action from rishi sunak that the only way that rishi sunak is going to convince them is not through confidence or parliamentary numbers or good messaging, going to be

messaging, it's going to be through results. so rishi through results. so if rishi sunak can, you know, show that the economy is growing and we saw results today showing that it wasn't if rishi sunak can prove that nhs waiting lists are falling, if rishi sunak can prove that he is stopping the boats and that doesn't mean a 30% reduction, that means what he set out do, which is he has set out to do, which is stopping the boats. >> my key question >> that's my key question actually, that 30% actually, james. that 30% reduction are there reduction that they are there talking that up really quite strongly . i mean, do you think strongly. i mean, do you think that's not good enough for voters relative to stopping the boats ? boats? >> no, it's not. and it goes back to the point, nigel farage made there that compared to a few years ago, these are still stratospheric numbers . and stratospheric numbers. and crucially, the prime minister said he's going stop them. said he's going to stop them. now if he can that now if he can deliver that promise, he can stop them or promise, if he can stop them or get to negligible get them down to negligible numbers, anyone's numbers, i don't think anyone's expecting necessarily a complete literal again but, literal never, ever again. but, you them down you know, getting them down to negligible or negligible numbers is or stopping entirely. then stopping them entirely. then i think will say, okay, think voters will say, okay, fair play. he's done it. but

thatis fair play. he's done it. but that is a huge task. now for the prime minister and he's running out of time as well. >> meanwhile, you , james, have >> meanwhile, you, james, have been doing polling on the been doing some polling on the public's to nigel public's reaction to nigel himself during the during the show, during his time in the jungle, getting to the final . jungle, getting to the final. and quite interesting results you've discovered there in terms of the popularity rating coming out of the jungle compared to going into the jungle. yeah >> yeah. >> yeah. >> so we ran two polls. we all run before one ran one before nigel farage went in and with conservative 2019 voters. so those people that voted for bofis those people that voted for boris johnson and the tories in 2019, absolutely key to the next election for both labour and the tories before he went into the jungle, nigel farage had a net rating of plus one with those voters. so 37% said they had a positive view , 36% a negative positive view, 36% a negative view. we ran the poll again this weekend after nigel came out and that has really transformed .

that has really transformed. he's now got a net rating of plus 18. that's a seven point swing, 46% say they're positive , swing, 46% say they're positive, only 28% negative. now now that's a big shift in polling terms and rishi sunak with those same voters. and remember, these are voters that voted for the conservative party in 2019. rishi sunak is on a rating of minus three. so although nigel farage might not have been crowned king of the jungle, he certainly seems to be at the moment at least in conservative 2019, eyes, if you'll 2019, voters eyes, if you'll pardon the cringe. king pardon the cringe. richard king of the political jungle, king of the political jungle. >> james johnson, thank you so much those thoughts. much indeed for those thoughts. there nigel finalist there you are, nigel finalist nearly king of the jungle, but maybe the political one. how do you those poll you feel about those poll numbers you went you numbers when you went in, you said to reach said you wanted to reach a broader audience. >> a lot of people said to me, don't do it. you know, it'll be a disaster. demean a disaster. it'll demean you. people will never look at you seriously again . and i said to seriously again. and i said to them all, don't be such stuffed shirts. you know, i mean , i shirts. you know, i mean, i think is worth the gamble. think it is worth the gamble. and people will see who i really

am as opposed to who they think perhaps am. stunned by the perhaps i am. i'm stunned by the numbers. i mean, is an numbers. i mean, that is an extra ordinary shift in polling terms. to here and think terms. and to sit here and think i'm 21% more popular with conservative 2019 voters than the conservative prime minister, and i've not even been a member of their party since 1992. it's remarkable, bill. so i'm flattered by it. it shows partly just how much trouble they're in. and i think what it also shows is people want political figures, thought leaders to be approachable human beings, you know, with all their flaws. and i've got a couple of those. but as opposed to this sort of political class of almost nonentities. >> yeah, well , nonentities. >> yeah, well, i mean, it's an extraordinary process being watched by cameras 24 over seven. you can't hide. you can't hide anything. well, that is absolutely. >> no, i mean, richard, i'm thrilled. and it absolutely backs up my decision to go and do it. so, no, i'm delighted.

>> absolutely fantastic . well, >> absolutely fantastic. well, listeners and viewers, nigel is back, course, next week. back, of course, next week. farage at large in birmingham . farage at large in birmingham. next thursday. you can apply through the website, i suspect tickets may be in hot demand . tickets may be in hot demand. nigel is going to stay with me through the next because through the next segment because there's important part there's a really important part of lawful visa debate, which of the lawful visa debate, which is the quantity of international student visa numbers. and i've discovered something quite extraordinary. don't go anywhere. it's . gb news on state anywhere. it's. gb news on state of the nation tonight at 8:00, a cop cop out the new deal to end fossil fuels passes without very much scrutiny. >> but what do we risk by ridding the world of affordable energy? a new poll shows nigel farage is more popular than rishi sunak among conservative voters with the tories do better with nigel for a fifth of uk adults support another lockdown. when will this project fear madness end ? and is the sussex madness end? and is the sussex halo finally slipping as the

duke and duchess charity sees significant drops in donations? or are we just too harsh on the runaway royals? tune in tonight . runaway royals? tune in tonight. at 8:00

not necessarily the successful. they don't like the idea of deporting people from here to protest in rwanda . well come protest in rwanda. well come back to farage with me, richard tice and my special guest on his own show, nigel farage, is still with us. >> we need to talk about international student visas because they are a huge part of the dramatic increase in the lawful immigration in numbers. and i've got a graph hopefully that will just show that coming up on the screen until about 2019. the sort of numbers of international students coming in was about 200,000 every year that number has now increased in the last 12 months to 500,000 students. and you can see it

there. that's just the students over the last about decade. and then on top of that, there was another 150,000 dependents, the government tell us they're going to deal with the dependents, but they're very proud of the student numbers. and many might say, well, what's wrong with that? well the rules are that having done a degree here or a master's here, you can then stay for two years on a graduate working visa and that qualifies you to do then get a five year you to do a then get a five year skilled worker you're skilled worker visa. you're basically now , basically there for life now, the immigration the home office immigration rules are quite clear rules are quite, quite clear with regard to international student visas. it says , is that student visas. it says, is that the university that you are going to is essentially a sponsor and the rules of sponsorship are this, that the course of study must take place on the premises of the student sponsor and less, for example, a temporary relief. if you're going on a field trip or something. and the home office requires the sponsors to comply

with this as set out in the sponsor guidance . this is sponsor guidance. this is really, really important point because what we've discovered actually is that that is not happening now. you can understand it during covid when everybody was at home or having to be online. but since then, since then , a number of separate since then, a number of separate studies have shown that actually the vast majority of courses now a significant percentage or indeed up to 100% is either still on line or actually you can do it online. so you don't have to go to any seminars. you don't have to go to any lectures whatsoever . and there's an whatsoever. and there's an entity called the hepi student academic experience survey 2023, which has just been published , which has just been published, shows that 75% of students stated that between 10% and 100% of their lectures were online 60% said that the same figure up

to 100% of seminars were online. so do you see what's happening here? the very premise of the home office student visa obugafion home office student visa obligation is clearly be being breached. in fact, you barely need to come at all. you get your visa and you can be somewhere else in the world. well, i'm delighted to be joined by my first guest to discuss this, dr. jones of this, dr. mike jones of migrationwatch. oh, a very migrationwatch. oh, mike, a very good evening. for this. good evening. thanks for this. this is really significant because believe that knowingly because i believe that knowingly the universities and the home office are basically turning a blind eye to this blatant abuse of the rules and regulations . of the rules and regulations. >> oh, absolutely . i agree. >> oh, absolutely. i agree. i mean, the promise of brexit was to take back control . but to take back control. but essentially what's happened is the home office has outsourced lost control of the student visa system to the university fees, which is like putting count dracula in charge of the blood

transfusion service. i mean, essentially the department for education has no interest in enforcing these rules and regulations , and the regulations, and the universities are quite happy to take advantage of this bureaucratic indifference . bureaucratic indifference. >> it's extraordinary. now, some will say, and many in the government say and elsewhere. well this is fantastic international education. it's a great export port. and we should the more the merrier. and what's wrong with doing online? what are your thoughts to that, mike, to those who take that approach, which. well don't get me wrong , which. well don't get me wrong, many of the international students deserve to be here. >> i'm glad they are here. they study at elite universities. they contribute to campus culture and the research community. but there's a point of diminishing returns here. you know, as you pointed out, richard , the number of student richard, the number of student visas is just shy of 500,000. when i graduated in 2005, that

number was about 200,000. many of these students, i'm afraid to say, are propping up some standard institutions that offer mickey mouse courses and that in itself is really significant . itself is really significant. >> should we be should we really worry about this or actually do we just take the view? the more money, the better? or actually is the floor? mike, if , for is the floor? mike, if, for example, you didn't automatically qualify for a graduate working visa to stay here after the degree , we then here after the degree, we then actually maybe it would be much less of a problem . less of a problem. >> yeah, that would certainly make a difference. but at the end of the day you need a cap on student visas. you've got to remember that the higher education sector , there are a education sector, there are a vested interest group universities will keep the pedal to the metal on the numbers because it enriches their coffers. but of course the costs of immigration are dispersed in terms of higher house prices, higher rents , pressure on public

higher rents, pressure on public infrastructure and transport pubuc infrastructure and transport public services. >> exactly which nigel mentioned earlier. mike, thank you so much indeed for your thoughts on that. now, we did approach the government for a comment on this . a government spokesman said dunng . a government spokesman said during pandemic concessions during the pandemic concessions were allow visas to were made to allow visas to be granted to overseas students undertaking remote learning in circum circumstances. are we are updating our policy in this area and we'll provide further information in due course. well, i should keep a very close eye on what due courses we did also ask the student sort of application service called acas for a comment on this. application service called acas for a comment on this . they for a comment on this. they declined. we asked universities uk for a comment on this. declined. we asked universities uk for a comment on this . they uk for a comment on this. they haven't responded and the office for students also declined to comment. well, nigel, your thoughts on this? am i right on this or actually, is the government right saying it's a great export? what's the problem? >> well , first things first. >> well, first things first. great piece of work. you know, you've exposed that the rules are not being applied, that no one seems to really care. and i

find the context interesting because a number of senior labour and conservative figures have been arguing now for a couple of years that we should actually take student numbers out of the immigration figures completely , which is very, very completely, which is very, very interesting. you made the dependence point very quickly. i'm sorry, i'm not sure why any student be allowed to student should be allowed to bnng student should be allowed to bring dependence to come and bring any dependence to come and permanently settle in britain. i didn't take hat off. didn't take my hat off. >> take my girlfriend >> i didn't take my girlfriend up manchester when i went. up to manchester when i went. >> mean, you might have >> i mean, well, you might have done, but but but mean, that done, but but but i mean, that is absolutely radical. julius. no, something no, you've uncovered something here. once here. and as you say, once they've graduated, for they've graduated, you stay for a couple of years. you get a job, you then get permanent leave to remain. look our universities appear to be obsessed by money, whether it's money coming from foreign students, from chinese students, grants from chinese companies linked directly to the chinese government, there's too much of it going on. yes, in many ways it is a great export for us. it does bring money into the country , but effectively the country, but effectively it's becoming a backdoor route to immigration. to mass immigration. >> actually, my suggestion,

>> so actually, my suggestion, if government said, well, if the government said, well, we're going to stop graduate we're going to stop the graduate working visa an automatic working visa as an automatic right post degree or post masters , then actually you could masters, then actually you could say online courses is an even better export around the world. if our universities are that good. >> yeah, well, i mean, you know, they could sign up for a british course and do it from wherever they live in the world, couldn't they? so, you know, of course s you know, we want, we want people spend money in our people to spend money in our country. i think this country. but i just think this is abused wholesale. and is being abused wholesale. and the got that sort of the fact you've got that sort of weasel the weasel answer from the government, know, they've government, you know, they've only because you've only said that because you've exposed fact actually exposed the fact that actually a coach is being driven coach and horses is being driven through but it's at every through this. but it's at every level. and i think what we have to understand is that those in london the home office london that run the home office in elite universities, in in our elite universities, as in our government and opposition , our government and opposition, they be unconcerned they are entirely be unconcerned by the exploding population in britain completely. the impact of that on people's lives is not just being felt, but i think increased slowly. this is going

to be the issue that dominates this, not just the next general election, but years to come. and of course, whilst you're away, the government came up with a new five point plan on reducing the numbers . the numbers. >> they said they were going to reduce them by 300,000. so that's their stance. they feel . that's their stance. they feel. >> i'm sorry. i'm sorry. the 2010 manifesto will reduce net migration to tens of thousands a yeah migration to tens of thousands a year. they said it again in 2015, again in 2017, they paid lip service to it in 2019 and you actually realise is they never ever meant any of it. they've been getting away with telling the british public what they think the public wants to hear without ever intending to deliver it. i mean, it's not very far away from lying to people. >> it'll be very interesting what the latest polling numbers say on that. nigel great to see you in the you. thank you for allowing me to share. you in the you. thank you for all(no,g me to share. you in the you. thank you for all(no, i'me to share. you in the you. thank you for all(no, i'm delighted. i'm >> no, i'm delighted. i'm delighted. i'll back delighted. and i'll be back where are on monday evening where you are on monday evening at 7:00. >> been it's been really >> it's been it's been really good fun. and you've done so well. fantastic. so well. absolutely fantastic. so

coming after the coming up, folks, after the break, yes, they've reached a deal. break, yes, they've reached a deal . cop 28, 70,000 of them deal. cop 28, 70,000 of them down in dubai enjoying themselves. we'll be talking about that. what are they actually said? and will it make actually said? and will it make a blind bit of difference? don't go anywhere. it's gb news earlier with eamonn and isabel. our top story this morning, the prime minister has survived a possible rebellion over his rwanda bill last night. >> the legislation comfort ably passed with a majority of 44. but there will be further votes in the new year. >> well, let's speak to our political editor for christopher hope, who joins us this morning. >> the pm won the battle last night with his with his plan for rwanda, but will he win the war? >> government become >> government has become absolutely fixated on rwanda , as absolutely fixated on rwanda, as if you like, the silver bullet that's going the boats. that's going to stop the boats. it's not this scheme is unethical, unworthy , able and unethical, unworthy, able and unaffordable . unaffordable. >> what we saw over the weekend was indicative of the weak leadership that we have from rishi sunak and the total chaos

that there is in this government i >> -- >> every morning it's breakfast from 6 am. hope you can join

they're great. they're great sort of things. gifts to buy for your pets. >> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> welcome back. my friends, to farage here on gb news. well, whilst we've been talking about rwanda and illegal boat crossings, there's been i thought it was 70,000 delegates down in dubai talking about climate change. i was wrong . climate change. i was wrong. it's nearly 100,000, some 90,000 plus. heaven knows what they've all been talking about. this is the 28th cop summit. it seems to get bigger and bigger. i guess at some point you might think, well, when are they actually going to sort of if you're worried about this, when are they going to sort it? i've got a graph here that's quite interesting because what it seems show , this graph shows seems to show, this graph shows that and from from the very first cop, some 20 plus years ago , this is the line there, the

ago, this is the line there, the orange line going up that that's the total co2 emissions in the world going up and up and up as there are more and more cops. so it seems to me there's a bit of a contradiction in terms here. maybe if they stopped if this was the last cop, then maybe the line might start to go down. do you see what i'm saying? anyway, this i mean, 90,000 people, i reckon it's about . a £500 reckon it's about. a £500 million summit. well my next guest actually, i think, was not there. tom burke, chairman of there. tom burke, chairman of the climate think tank e3 . very the climate think tank e3. very good evening to you. good to see you.so good evening to you. good to see you. so evening, richard. they've reached a conclusion the extent it always seems to go on an extra day, whilst there's all sorts of stress and people start crying with joy or fear and they've they've reached a conclusion that we're going to transit away from fossil fuels in a just orderly and equitable manner. so as to achieve net zero by 2050. in keeping with

the science are you satisfied? are you a happy man or are you just regretful you weren't there? tom actually, i was at there? tom actually, i was at the first cop in berlin in 28 years ago. >> a long time ago. so is it your fault that it hasn't made any progress? it's entirely my fault. and i saw in your nice graph that got a bit graph there that we've got a bit of anyway from covid of help anyway from covid because you get that covid, because you get that dip covid, which from covid. which was a bit from covid. >> talk to me about >> don't talk to me about climate lockdowns, folks. otherwise anyway. but look, is this of cop this just another sort of cop out to coin a phrase? >> good heavens, not bad. you know, you won't be first know, but you won't be the first to that one. i tell you. to upload that one. i tell you. no, it's and it's quite no, it's not. and it's quite important respect in important in one respect in particular, which is at least we're now all pointing in the same direction. we're not exactly road, as exactly moving down the road, as your , we're not your graph showed, we're not exactly moving the as exactly moving down the road as fast as need to be, but we're fast as we need to be, but we're just not to be even pointing in the same direction. and we can only problem by only solve this problem by stopping fuels. stopping burning fossil fuels. really proposition, actually. >> well, you that, but >> well, look, you say that, but actually fuels has been actually fossil fuels has been i mean, it's led to cheaper energy

leading to billions of people leaving longer, happier lives, greater agricultural productivity. the world is, i think, some sort of 6 or 7 or 8% greener than it was 40 years ago. we might even have a graph that that shows that. so i mean, some might say actually cheap energy, more productivity . energy, more productivity. that's been a good thing. well up until we discovered what the other side of that equation, that balance sheet was, it was a good thing . good thing. >> no doubt that we wouldn't be as well off as we are now if we hadnt as well off as we are now if we hadn't burnt fossil fuels. it's absolutely true. if we go on burning fossil fuels, we'll end up in the caves. up back in the caves. >> you say that, but >> well, you say that, but actually, stop, i mean, actually, if we stop, i mean, some people will literally want to using fossil fuels very to stop using fossil fuels very quickly. stop using we quickly. if we stop using we even on last even bob ward, who had on last night, admitted that if we night, he admitted that if we stop too quickly, we'd be back in but here's my in the caves. but here's my point. how did the climate how did world warm previously, did the world warm previously, before fossil before man was burning fossil fuels? maybe it's all just natural. i wish i tell you natural. well, i wish i tell you i'd be much. >> well, it did for billions of years.

>> it warmed and cooled and warmed and cooled. >> you're exactly right. it did it billions of years and it it for billions of years and it did it over thousands of years. it for billions of years and it did iall/er thousands of years. it for billions of years and it did iall we've usands of years. it for billions of years and it did iall we've doneis of years. it for billions of years and it did iall we've done isof years. it for billions of years and it did iall we've done is addears. and all we've done is add a catalyst in the carbon in the atmosphere the atmosphere that speeded the whole when people whole thing up. so when people say this is a natural thing, change, they're right. it's just not natural the at not natural that the speed at which changes. which this changes. >> the evidence? where's >> where's the evidence? where's the that if you the evidence, tom, that if you stop using fossil fuels, if you get to net zero, where's the evidence that that's going to stop climate that's gone stop climate change that's gone on billions years? stop climate change that's gone on well, lions years? stop climate change that's gone on well, that's years? stop climate change that's gone on well, that's physics’ stop climate change that's gone on well, that's physics . >> well, that's physics. >> well, that's physics. >> it's real. what do you mean physics? >> well, it's really simple. what affecting why what is affecting us and why this matters because the this matters is because the physics in the physics of carbon in the atmosphere determines what the temperature is . so that addition temperature is. so that addition to the temperature we've got and what that does is drive the whole of the rest of the system. >> so there's natural co2, there's natural carbon which has dnven there's natural carbon which has driven possibly driven climate change possibly potentially. so why is it potentially. so so why is it that if we reduce and stop manmade co2 emissions, why isn't the earth going to keep warming in its natural cycle using

natural emissions? let's get it. >> that cycle goes on and we've tracked that cycle . and you can tracked that cycle. and you can tracked that cycle. and you can track climate change won't stop . track climate change won't stop. sorry let me finish. climate change that's being driven by burning fossil fuels. change that's being driven by burning fossil fuels . first of burning fossil fuels. first of all, will stop if we stop burning fossil fuels. in other words, we won't stop making it worse. but you won't get better over night if we stop doing that, because we've changed the climate, you're not going to change it back. you can't change it back. and i say, just said, richard, you know, doing things over hundreds thousands of over hundreds of thousands of years is one thing. doing them over a century is another. i wouldn't worry about it except for the fact i like civilisation. i like the fact that civilisation keeps me in this studio. for instance , my this studio. for instance, my issue is that, look, we all want cleaner air. >> we all care about the environment. my issue is that actually as now the equivalent of the ons in norway has said, there's no evidence that actually reducing man made co2 emissions will lead to will lead to a stopping climate. indeed,

the ipcc itself says that even if you got to net zero tomorrow, it would take between 200 and 1000 years to stop sea level rise. >> yeah, well, he's right about. that's why it's such a problem. you can't you know, we think of change because most of us have changes in our life and we think things change and then you try changes in our life and we think thin change ge and then you try changes in our life and we think thin change your d then you try changes in our life and we think thin change your back n you try changes in our life and we think thin change your back or'ou try changes in our life and we think thin change your back or you ry changes in our life and we think thin change your back or you just and change your back or you just change and go forward, right? you can't change this one back. this irrevocable. know, this is irrevocable. you know, we're we that like we're humans. we say that like a irrevocable thing. >> we're going keep talking >> we're going to keep talking about tom. is against about this, tom. time is against us, have you back us, but we will have you back because is an ongoing because this is an ongoing debate. after all, they've had 28 in cop various 28 of these in cop various places the they places around the world. they seem now. big seem to get bigger now. big announcement wales is that announcement in wales is that mark drakeford, the first minister for exactly five years, mark drakeford, the first min announced|ctly five years, mark drakeford, the first min announced his five years, mark drakeford, the first min announced his resignation. has announced his resignation. interestingly he quite rare for a politician when he said when he was appointed exactly five years ago that he would for stand five years. and he's actually stuck to his word. and for that, all credit to him. delight to be joined by sam

rowlands, who was a member of the senate for the conservative party in north wales. sam thanks for joining us so did you expect forjoining us so did you expect this, first of to for all, mark drakeford, keep to his word? drakeford, to keep to his word? and what's going to be his legacy, good or bad? >> well, it's good to join you this evening, richard. and as you say , mark drakeford laid out you say, mark drakeford laid out fairly early on that he was in this post for a fixed term in his mind , he didn't want to his mind, he didn't want to extend beyond that. >> and he's continued to indications that within this existing parliamentary term, he would be looking to step down. i think came with a surprise at today. was the day he chose. and as you said, it's an interesting date to consider. it's bang on five years since he was elected as first minister here in in wales. and but a slight, slight surprise there and have a huge amount of respect for anybody who stands for position in politics, especially as positions of leadership and our policies and our our ideas may be very different. but for somebody to put themselves out in front of public, i think

takes a huge amount of courage sometimes. and a huge amount of respect for him . and but in respect for him. and but in terms of his legacy and there's a number of question marks there, i suppose. and we continue to see in wales , sadly, continue to see in wales, sadly, a health service which is the worst performing across the uk. we have an economy which is the worst performing across the uk. we have an education system which is the worst in the uk , so which is the worst in the uk, so that's a pretty bad legacy. >> it sounds like even the prime minister referred to that in prime minister's questions today i >> -- >> well, it's certainly not idealis >> well, it's certainly not ideal is it? and we'd want to see things much, much better here in wales. and i guess it's also a legacy of 25 years of labour here in wales. what about socialism does to our services what about things slowing down with his 20 mile an hour limit that some 25% of welsh adults are calling for a petition to lift it back to 30? >> i mean, that's that's a slowing legacy, isn't it ? yeah slowing legacy, isn't it? yeah 20mph as a default speed limit

in wales is. >> yeah . causing a huge amount >> yeah. causing a huge amount of upsets here and rightfully so . and as you say, huge numbers of people who think it's completely bonkers. and so that's not what we want to see here in wales as conservatives, we've said we would remove that 20 mile default if we were elected here in 2026. but it does give an indication, doesn't it? it does give an indication as to what might happen across the uk if labour came into power in westminster. >> let's see. »- >> let's see. >> blueprint for the uk . >> blueprint for the uk. >> blueprint for the uk. >> let's see what happens with that. sam rowlands, thank you so much indeed for your thoughts on the announcement today that mark drakeford is going to stick to his word. five years ago and resign as leader of the welsh labour party in the senate coming up, he's back making a noise on social media. yes the one and only gary lineker. is it a breach or is it not? i don't go anywhere. it's . news on

go anywhere. it's. news on patrick christys tonight. >> nine till 11 pm. nigel farage is back in britain . the farage is back in britain. the jungle hero returns and he means business and his popularity is soaring above rishi sunak. would you vote for nigel to be prime minister? plus, i'll be joined by influential tory rebel sir john hayes. did the five families bottle it last night in the rwanda vote ? angela levin the rwanda vote? angela levin has the latest . harry and meghan has the latest. harry and meghan drama. they've been named the biggest losers in hollywood and we'll bring you the most exciting paper of you anywhere on the telly patrick christys tonight nine till 11 pm. be

>> welcome back to me. richard tice here on farage and gb news. well, no surprise at all. one. gary lineker. yes he is match of the day on bbc. he's been busy again tweeting away on social media as he likes to do and has

done for many, many years. well it seems as though we've got a picture of a recent tweet he's just done about grant shapps. obviously a conservative mp and cabinet minister so we've now got an incoming chairman in new chairman arriving shortly at the bbc. doctor samir shah, and he is was at a confirmation hearing today , say at the house of today, say at the house of commons. and he said actually that mr lineker may be in breach of the guidelines. absolutely fascinating join now down the line by david elstein, former chief executive of channel five and producer at the bbc. david, were you surprised by this news today ? do you think this changes today? do you think this changes anything or or or will the incoming chairman have his knuckles rapped ? knuckles rapped? >> i actually think sam said gary was in breach , not that he gary was in breach, not that he appeared to be, but that he was

in breach. and he obviously is. look, there's no question the guidelines apply to gary . he's guidelines apply to gary. he's named in them . there are eight named in them. there are eight do's and don'ts in the guidelines and his breach , six guidelines and his breach, six of them. so that looks pretty comprehensive to me. he's just basically thumbing his nose at the bbc. >> do you think, therefore, that essentially gary is almost deliberately trying to test it with a view to leaving fairly soon? is this moving towards end game ? game? >> i don't think he expects to leave. >> i think he expects to stay. he shouldn't stay. and obviously , if the bbc had more spine, it would fire him . and look, we all would fire him. and look, we all have to pay for the bbc if we want to watch television . we all want to watch television. we all chip in £0.05 towards gary's large salary. i regret that. >> and frankly, if he takes the

bbc shilling, which is actually our shilling, he has to comply with the guidelines. >> he can earn a living anywhere he likes. he doesn't have to work at bbc exactly, but he's basically saying to the bbc, are you going to fire me or not? >> absolutely. fascinating. he's laying down the gauntlet. thank you for that . you very much indeed for that. david your clear david elstein for your clear view. now, delighted. just before the of the show, view. now, delighted. just beforebenton, of the show, view. now, delighted. just beforebenton, independent', view. now, delighted. just beforebenton, independent mp for scott benton, independent mp for blackpool south, has joined us in the studio to explain. scott so you voted in the rwanda vote last night for the bill. were you in any doubt and why did you support the prime minister in this? >> i was hugely conflicted, richard. ahead of the vote, to tell you the truth, i was in a plethora of meetings with those so—called five conservative families. we heard a range of different views from colleagues about why the bill is difficult, point about how it doesn't get us to where we want to be. but to be fair to the prime minister it takes us one step further to the goal. both you and i want to

see, which is stopping the boats. so the bill isn't perfect , but in fact it's far from that. but voting it down at the first hurdle when we weren't guaranteed anything else and scotland is obviously there's lots more hurdles . lots more hurdles. >> so we've got a slide here which shows how much more it's got to go. hopefully this will come up on screen in terms of the steps required in the house of commons. there you've got it's got committee stage report, stage third reading, then it's got to go to the house of lords, where there's another five stages. it's quite a complex process. this this is democracy . process. this this is democracy. you've got the house of lords, you've got another five stages and then a final two stages, including the royal assent. how long think this is going long do you think this is going to take? >> scott i mean, it's going to be difficult, to be very difficult, richard, to get the statute book get this on the statute book before the next election. the lords could could frustrate the process months it process for months on end. it will to the will then come back to the committee stage in the house of commons. >> just, just, just before the next which many people

>> just, just, just before the nextwill which many people >> just, just, just before the nextwill be which many people >> just, just, just before the nextwill be next1ich many people >> just, just, just before the nextwill be next autumn.y people say will be next autumn. >> well, saying this >> well, you're saying this could for the whole could drag on for the whole through the next summer whilst the coming? the boats keep coming? >> the minister's >> the prime minister's aspiration this on aspiration is he wants this on the before next summer. aspiration is he wants this on the you before next summer. aspiration is he wants this on the you and fore next summer. aspiration is he wants this on the you and lyre next summer. aspiration is he wants this on the you and i both ext summer. aspiration is he wants this on the you and i both knownmer. aspiration is he wants this on the you and i both know thisr. but you and i both know this problem has been around for but you and i both know this probl> my view is firm. i don't think the bill is fit for purpose at stage. my purpose at this stage. my aspiration it can be beefed aspiration is it can be beefed up committee stage and up during committee stage and then come back to third. >> and trust him to do that >> and you trust him to do that despite what he's hearing from the one in rwanda the one nation in rwanda threatening to pull from it. >> i think the prime minister is going that. going to have to do that. >> but he said he couldn't go another inch, the prime minister. >> well, we will see, richard. i don't fit for purpose don't think it's fit for purpose at this stage. the conservative right, the so—called rebels have been unless are been clear. unless there are

significant changes. many mps in that vote against significant changes. many mps in that at vote against significant changes. many mps in that at third vote against significant changes. many mps in that at third week. e against this at third week. >> would you dare to vote against a third reading? >> this bill >> absolutely. if this bill isn't purpose and it isn't fit for purpose and it doesn't stop the boats, then what is the point? it needs amending brilliant. amending and it's brilliant. >> fantastic. you've >> absolutely fantastic. you've heard vote heard it here. he would vote against it's not beefed against it if it's not beefed up. coming it's jacob up. coming up, it's jacob rees—mogg. all, rees—mogg. but first of all, it's the weather looks like things heating up . things are heating up. >> boxt boilers spot hours of weather on gb news is hello there. >> i'm greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest news forecast. turning chilly for a time this evening, but then mild air spreads back in overnight as cloud and rain moves in from the atlantic. this weather front pushes south eastwards as we head through tonight and into thursday. and then a north—south split into the weekend. high pressure keeping it dry in the south this evening, turning quite chilly. some frost out there. overnight we see there. but overnight we see cloud and rain moving in from the atlantic. this slowly pushing its way eastwards. pushing its way south eastwards. so temperatures rising as the

night goes on. taking us into thursday morning. most places frost free generally between two and eight celsius, but it does mean a cloudy, damp start for many, particularly across england and wales, where we do have rain slowly have outbreaks of rain slowly pushing southeast was brighter. northern scotland northern ireland and scotland with in the far with blustery showers in the far north. and then through the day the cloud and the rain slowly pushes eastwards, becoming pushes south eastwards, becoming confined south—east confined to the far south—east for the afternoon, most places becoming bright. plenty becoming dry and bright. plenty of spells , still some of sunny spells, still some blustery showers scotland blustery showers across scotland . near average for . temperatures near average for the year, 7 to 11 the time of year, 7 to 11 celsius, maybe just slightly above for some western parts on friday itself, some mist and fog and frost to start the morning and frost to start the morning and then plenty of dry weather across and wales. across england and wales. variable cloud cloudy variable amounts of cloud cloudy skies, for northern skies, though, for northern ireland, scotland, the risk of some rain as we move through the day here in a mild day for everyone into the weekend , it everyone into the weekend, it generally quite cloudy generally stays quite cloudy and temperatures remain above average of year. average for the time of year. see you soon. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> hello . good evening. it's me, >> hello. good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation. tonight cop cop out the

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