>> good afternoon and welcome to gb news on tv online and on digital radio i'm nana akua. and for the next few hours me and my panel will be taking on some of the big topics hitting the headlines. right now. this show is all about opinion. it's mine. it's theirs. and of course it's yours. we'll debating , yours. we'll be debating, discussing and at times will discussing and at times we will disagree. will be disagree. but no one will be cancelled. so joining in the cancelled. so joining me in the next broadcasting next hour, broadcasting journalist danny also journalist danny kelly also broadcaster and author christine hamilton in in a few moments time, we'll be going head to headin time, we'll be going head to head in a clash of minds with the former ukip deputy chair and political commentator suzanne evans, and also former labour mp stephen before we get stephen pound. but before we get started, let's get your latest news sam . news with sam. >> nana thank you very much.

good afternoon. i'm sam francis . good afternoon. i'm sam francis. the headlines at three, the home office insists it has a robust plan for flights to rwanda , plan for flights to rwanda, following reports that airlines are refusing to take part in the government's asylum policy. it comes as the chairman of the erg group says plans are in place for some amendments to the bill. gb news presenter camilla tominey asked mark francois if his opposition to the rwanda plan risked making perfect the enemy of the good. >> if the good doesn't work, then it's not good enough. it needsit then it's not good enough. it needs it needs to be good enough. now, on a positive note, sir bill cash is already talking to government lawyers about trying to come up with an amendment that actually , if you amendment that actually, if you like, would fill those holes . like, would fill those holes. that would be a very positive thing to if anybody can draft that amendment, it's bill. so he and others are talking to the government in a positive way about trying to draft something to make sure that the bill is fit for purpose and that amendment will be tabled in time

for the committee stage, which is probably going to be in the second half of january. >> well, as we've been hearing, there is growing pressure on israel with david cameron joining germany's foreign affairs minister in calling for affairs minister in calling for a ceasefire in gaza . in a joint a ceasefire in gaza. in a joint article for the sunday times, the foreign secretary warned that many civilians have that too many civilians have been killed and that it's time for a sustainable ceasefire. the intervention significant intervention is a significant shift in the government's tone on israel's war against hamas terrorists. however, lord cameron stopped short calling cameron stopped short of calling for ceasefire. his for an immediate ceasefire. his comments come a day after israel admitted mistakenly shooting and killing three hostages as they attempted to flee captivity . attempted to flee captivity. meanwhile israel's prime minister has suggested that fresh talks may be underway aimed at securing the release of more hostages . benjamin more hostages. benjamin netanyahu told reporters . that netanyahu told reporters. that the offensive in gaza had been key to the release of hostages. in november, the labour has accused the government of sending the nhs into the colder months naked. that's amid warnings of a winter crisis. the

health secretary told gb news that some of the funding problems facing the health system are due to excessive red tape. system are due to excessive red tape . wes streeting promised tape. wes streeting promised that labour government would that a labour government would work make gps more accessible. >> i'm just trying to send a message to, uh, to everyone that the public finances are in a mess thanks to this show of a government. money is going to be tight and we've got to make sure that every penny of taxpayers money is well spent and the argument on the nhs can't just be money. it has to be be more money. it has to be reform and modernisation. otherwise i fear that our nhs, as it has been for 75 years, a pubuc as it has been for 75 years, a public service free at the point of use, something i fundamentally believe in will be at risk . at risk. >> baroness michelle mone has admitted that she failed to reveal her links to a company that supplied ppe gowns to the nhs. medpro is currently being investigated by the national crime agency, while the department for health is taking action over a breach of contract contract, she told the bbc that she made an error by not

revealing her links to the company, which led to her husband's trust receiving around company, which led to her husbmillion.1st receiving around company, which led to her husbmillion. butaceiving around company, which led to her husbmillion. but sheling around company, which led to her husbmillion. but she insisted nd £60 million. but she insisted that lying to the media is not a crime . the couple have become crime. the couple have become one of the first same sex partnerships to receive a blessing at a church of england service . the prayers of love and service. the prayers of love and faith, now allowed to be used in general services were given to catherine bond and jane pearce this morning. of this morning. the house of bishops sanctioned the blessings just days ago , but there's been just days ago, but there's been no legislative change. it remains a voluntary decision for ministers and more wet weather is on the way in scotland as the met office issue another amber warning which could cause danger to life in the north west. up to eight inches of rain was forecast for this weekend and more still expected to come. experts say it's likely to cause travel chaos, floods and possible landslides. people are urged to take precautions and avoid avoid flood waters . this avoid avoid flood waters. this is gb news we're across the uk on your tv in your car, on digital radio and of course on

your smart speaker. now though, let's return to . nana. let's return to. nana. >> thank you very much , sam. >> thank you very much, sam. good afternoon. if you've just tuned in, where on earth have you been? well, actually, it's just the start of the show, so it's fine. if you missed anyway. anyway, before we get stuck into the so for the next the debates. so for the next houn the debates. so for the next hour, to head, let me hour, going head to head, let me introduce them. political introduce you to them. political political commentator suzanne evans, labour mp evans, also a former labour mp stephen akua fast stephen pound i'm nana akua fast approaching six minutes after 3:00 way. how do you see 3:00 on the way. how do you see the israel—hamas war ending as lord cameron calls for the sustainable ceasefire in the gaza conflict ? in a joint gaza conflict? in a joint article for the sunday times, the foreign secretary warns that too many civilians have been killed and it's time for a sustainable ceasefire. do you agree? we'll be discussing that. how do you see that war ending then? can rishi sunak survive another by—election defeat? after independent mp and former conservative scott benton was

suspended for 35 days after breaking lobbying rules, the tory party is surely under fire once again. but can rishi sunak survive yet another one? well, he asked, who doesn't he really? frankly then, is the church of england right to bless same sex couples? a couple who have become one of the first same sex partnerships receive partnerships to receive a blessing the church of blessing at the church of england service. but church england service. but the church has come under fire for blessing the union. agree with the union. do you agree with that decision? and stay that decision? and then stay tuned. i'm by tuned. at five, i'm joined by a mr. g guest to talk about their life, their lows and life, their highs, lows and lessons and what comes lessons learnt and what comes next. on the outside, a clue he's generation owner he's a fourth generation owner of a big run business in of a big family run business in the uk. that's the beginning. see if you can guess he's there. his face is slightly sort of hidden. that's on the way in the next hour. tell me what you think on everything we're discussing. email gbviews@gbnews.com or tweet me at . gb news. gbviews@gbnews.com or tweet me at. gb news. right so gbviews@gbnews.com or tweet me at . gb news. right so the at. gb news. right so the foreign secretary, james cameron, i know it feels odd

saying james cameron, he is david. well that's right, he doesn't exist. it's david cameron. it's piling the pressure on israel. sorry, it's in new york, but he's cameron is a film producer. he is, isn't he? you're right there. thank you for that. i'm glad you said that. he it did sound odd. i did say that. yeah, but who the hell is james cameron? >> we can confirm it said that. you can confirm. >> it's not me. it's is. them heads roll, right? heads will roll, right? >> they bring anybody heads will roll, right? >> they they bring anybody heads will roll, right? >> they mightey bring anybody heads will roll, right? >> they might bringig anybody heads will roll, right? >> they might bring james ody back, they might bring james cameron. >> they could do. he did avatar. >> they could do. he did avatar. >> he might betterjob. >> he might do a betterjob. he probably would. >> right. >> yeah, right. >> yeah, right. >> can't that you're on >> can't say that you're on their side. >> well, no she's not, she's not. >> are you really. well that's embarrassing. >> you can't be on their >> you can't really be on their side, you? because frankly, side, can you? because frankly, they're embarrassed they're just embarrassed themselves. david themselves. but anyway, david cameron, talking about cameron, he's talking about a sustainable now, this sustainable ceasefire. now, this represents shift represents a significant shift in the government's stance on israel warned, israel as lord cameron warned, too many civilians are being killed. meanwhile united killed. meanwhile the united states killed. meanwhile the united state out smaller focussed raids carry out smaller focussed raids in phase of the war. so in the next phase of the war. so to go to head before we do to go head to head before we do that, i'm going to be discussing this with professor eugene

kontorovich. director kontorovich. he's a director of international kontorovich. he's a director of interniforum . i hope i said all policy forum. i hope i said all that right. was that okay? did i say that right ? say that right? >> yeah. i'm professor kantorovich at the policy forum. >> nana. >> nana. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. right. so first of all, a lot of people are saying that israel has broken international law. well, i'm that by i'm going to caveat that by saying have clearly broken saying hamas have clearly broken international is international law. so that is absolutely the case. but what about israel? a lot of people saying that. >> , uh, it's hard to say >> so, uh, it's hard to say without talking about what specific international law they're broken. but the basic accusation that the civilian casualties in gaza, um, show that israel has violated international law is completely untrue because civilian casualties are a tragic part of war, which are not in themselves illegal. targeting civilian owns is illegal, but targeting military objectives is legal. even if civilians get killed . even if civilians get killed. 50,000 civilians were killed at least by the us and the uk. in afghanistan and in gaza . what

afghanistan and in gaza. what makes matters much worse is hamas hides in schools in mosques. uh, the tunnel was found the other day under a baby's crib. hamas is designed is strategy is to maximise civilian casualties and the responsibility for those casualties lies on hamas . casualties lies on hamas. >> a lot of people . it's >> a lot of people. it's interesting because when i hear some people talking, it's almost as though they've forgotten the atrocity of the seventh, because if had in country if that had been in any country around world, anywhere in around the world, anywhere in the there would have been the world, there would have been a retaliation. of people a retaliation. a lot of people saying it is, is really saying that it is, is really going too far now, and it's time to stop. i will come to that. but i want to talk to about but i want to talk to you about the criticism that israel are getting now over killing of three israeli hostages who were apparently as apparently waving white flags as an in conflict. so, in an expert in conflict. so, in your view, was that inevitable ? your view, was that inevitable? >> uh, yeah, i think it's inevitable , given hamas's inevitable, given hamas's tactics . uh, this is not the tactics. uh, this is not the franco prussian war, right? this

is not a war between regular armies following the laws of war. hamas has in recent days exploited white flags to surrender , to fake a surrender surrender, to fake a surrender and try to entrap israeli soldiers. they've even reportedly, uh, had loudspeakers or amplifiers play crying babies voices to lead israeli soldiers into traps in other words, they have exploited every humanitarian provision of the law of war. those provisions are white flags wearing uniforms , white flags wearing uniforms, arms separating combatants from civilians are designed to protect innocents like the hostages from the costs of conflict. hamas undermines those and as a result, makes it much more likely that civilians and innocents like the hostages will get killed . get killed. >> um, and in your view , i mean, >> um, and in your view, i mean, you mentioned them. how likely is it that hamas will actually release further hostages ? uh .

certainly. >> uh, the hostages are, uh, hamas's secret weapon. they are their trump card. and now that hamas has its back against the wall, it will likely insist that the price for the release of those hostages be its survival , those hostages be its survival, which is not something israel can agree to because the survival of hamas means the destruction of israel. so israel cannot agree to let hamas and its leadership survive . five uh, its leadership survive. five uh, so i think it's very unlikely that hamas is going to be releasing those , uh, hostages in releasing those, uh, hostages in a deal with israel and of course, a lot of people are now calling for a ceasefire. >> they've seen a lot of death and destruction in gaza. but i will also caveat that by saying the reason you're not the only reason you're not seeing that in israel is because israel invested iron israel invested in the iron dome, missiles are dome, and those missiles are coming repeatedly hamas, coming repeatedly from hamas, consistently, even consistently, in fact, even before so what before the seventh. so what effect the for effect are the calls for ceasefire from the international community having on israel's war effort ? effort? >> um, i think we have never

seen a war of self—defence that has to be fought on a time clock, uh, that has to be fought on a stopwatch . uh, countries on a stopwatch. uh, countries exercising the right of self—defence. uh, don't do so for some period of time. right. you don't get, like, a point in time on the clock. it takes as long as it takes. war is often take much longer than is expected . it's the case of world expected. it's the case of world war two. it's the case of world war two. it's the case of world war one. uh, there should not be any timer on this. and when countries try to impose an artificial clock , i think what artificial clock, i think what it suggests to israelis is that those countries value, uh, let's say, domestic political consideration . um, over israel's consideration. um, over israel's survival because the this war is measured only in its objectives. the removal of the genocidal hamas regime from power. uh and hopefully that won't take so long. but any artificial timetable still plays into

hamas's hands and very finally, briefly, what about the death and destruction , though? and destruction, though? >> a lot of people in gaza are dying and is it is it worth the end result? because and what do you see as that end result being , uh , the deaths of gazan , uh, the deaths of gazan civilians are primarily attributable to hamas, who seeks those deaths and uses those deaths because hamas has one clear goal to attempt to exterminate jews . exterminate jews. >> and when they fight back to hide behind civilians, to save themselves so they can exterminate jews again. um by many accounts, the, uh, ratio of casualties to civil civilian to hamas casualties is actually extremely low and admirable in any urban , uh, context. the any urban, uh, context. the future of gaza has to be one in which there is not armed groups that can threaten israel. like this. again uh, and only israel

can ensure that no outside power can ensure that no outside power can do that. and much like nazi germany had to go through a long penod germany had to go through a long period of de—nazification allied troops stayed in germany for decades. troops stayed in germany for decades . uh, it's, you know, decades. uh, it's, you know, gazais decades. uh, it's, you know, gaza is going to have to go through a similar process. >> professor eugene kontorovich, thank you so much for talking to me. thank you very much . all me. thank you very much. all right. well you heard what he had to say. this is gb news live on tv, online and on digital radio. it's fast approaching 15 minutes after 3:00. well it's time to bring in my head to head. as in a clash of minds. joining me, former ukip deputy chair and political commentator suzanne former labour chair and political commentator suz stephen former labour chair and political commentator suz stephen pound. former labour chair and political commentator suz stephen pound. uh,ier labour chair and political commentator suz stephen pound. uh, so labour chair and political commentator suz stephen pound. uh, so withur mp stephen pound. uh, so with tensions rising in the middle east, how do you see? i'm going to with you, suzanne. how to start with you, suzanne. how do you see this israel hamas conflict well, i'm not conflict ending? well, i'm not sure can predict it as sure anyone can predict it as professor kantorovich just said there, take a lot there, you know, wars take a lot longer anticipated. longer than anticipated. >> we all have >> i'm sure we would all have liked swift resolution to liked a very swift resolution to this but clearly, this conflict. but clearly, while holding while hamas is still holding hostages, not going to

hostages, that's not going to happen. while hamas happen. clearly while hamas still has a stated aim that israel exist and israel should not exist and should from the should be eradicated from the face the planet, not face of the planet, that's not going happen any time soon. going to happen any time soon. and think it's quite and i think it's quite interesting. david cameron's intervention. so unfortunately, gone we could gone are the days when we could hear something david cameron said and said, well, he doesn't matter anymore, does he? but here he is, foreign secretary , here he is, foreign secretary, uh, pontificating again against matters of a very important national security and worldwide interests . national security and worldwide interests. um, national security and worldwide interests . um, what national security and worldwide interests. um, what is a sustainable ceasefire? he's he wants a sustainable peace . well, wants a sustainable peace. well, what is that? what does that look like? how is he going to bnng look like? how is he going to bring that about? let's not forget that palestine has pretty much peace deal much rejected every peace deal that brokered that has been brokered over the past decade . as, um, you know, past decade. as, um, you know, he says there are too many civilian casualties. well, yes, he's but that's what he's right, but that's what happensin he's right, but that's what happens in war. and that's what happens in war. and that's what happens when one side won't give an inch. it's also, course, an inch. it's also, of course, what happened libyan what happened in the libyan conflict, which david cameron played in deposing played his part in deposing colonel . many colonel gaddafi. how many civilians in that? civilians were killed in that? again far too many and a million

people were displaced. it kicked off the whole of small off the whole issue of small boats leaving africa and coming into europe and elsewhere . into europe and elsewhere. >> um, but gaza is tiny, though , >> um, but gaza is tiny, though, isn't it? it's very small. gaza's the people tiny, literally have nowhere to go. >> they don't. and i absolutely believe, you know, that, that israel always acted in israel has not always acted in in the best way when it comes to the two state solution , that i'm the two state solution, that i'm not sure it's going to work myself, but there you are. that's that's what everyone wants. and that's what's talked about. um, israel has it's has to take its fair share of the blame as well. absolutely but you the atrocities on you look at the atrocities on the 7th of october, they came effectively of effectively in the midst of a ceasefire. so i think people who are calling for a ceasefire are now calling for a ceasefire are now calling for a ceasefire are really not being realistic about the prospects for that area . area. >> stephen pound yeah, i thought the professor's comments were sensible and serious in many ways. >> however, i would part company with him when he used the word admirable said that the admirable when he said that the ratio civilian to military ratio of civilian to military casualties in gaza was admirable

i >> -- >> and that's not a word i would use. >> use. >> i'm sorry i think he needs to actually retract that. >> but look. >> but look. >> but look. >> but i think to be fair to him, he's not here to defend himself. but what i think he meant was that in comparison to the amount of bombardment, that's the ratio, that's happened, the ratio, um, you don't you know, and also we don't actually full of actually know the full of course, you've actually. yeah yeah. >> the interesting thing is that, baerbock, that, i mean, annalena baerbock, the minister, the german foreign minister, made statement with made this joint statement with david now question made this joint statement with da isi now question made this joint statement with da is david now question made this joint statement with da is david cameron question made this joint statement with da is david cameron an question made this joint statement with da is david cameron an outlieron is, is david cameron an outlier here, or is this signed off by rishi sunak? is this official government policy? because if it is, we to accept is, i think we have to accept that there no way god's that there is no way on god's green that going to green earth that we're going to actually a proper actually have a proper ceasefire. the moment, hamas ceasefire. at the moment, hamas would it, they'd bite your would take it, they'd bite your arm for it because they arm off for it because they could to and isn't could use it to rearm. and isn't it that even it extraordinary that even today, midst this today, in the midst of this massive which massive bombardment, which is worse than anything, you know, since seen since since we've seen since dresden in know, the in 1945, or the, you know, the city london and the docks city of london and the docks back in in 1942, 1943. they're still firing rockets. they still have the capability and the capacity. >> this is hamas you're talking about incredible, about hamas. it's incredible, isn't still doing

that. >> so if there was a ceasefire, it would be a rearmament opportunity hamas. do you opportunity for hamas. do you think the idf would actually agree? israeli defence force agree? the israeli defence force would ceasefire? would agree a ceasefire? absolutely would agree a ceasefire? absolsoly would agree a ceasefire? absolso what have to have is time. so what we have to have is an force, a third an external force, a third party, to actually broker some sort of a peace discussion. but i think the news that you mentioned the mentioned earlier on about the three soldiers stripped three israeli soldiers stripped to waist so that they to the waist so that they weren't carrying waving weren't carrying bombs, waving a white shot by their own white flag shot by their own people, i think that might be a tipping i think a of tipping point. i think a lot of people would see the israelis as now trigger and now as being trigger happy and out control. out of control. >> but you what he also >> but you heard what he also said, that they do that to lure you in and that they've even played crying played sounds of babies crying and that. i and things like that. i i wouldn't put it past the best will in world if somebody will in the world if somebody comes towards you speaking hebrew, stripped to waist, hebrew, stripped to the waist, carrying flag that you carrying a white flag that you don't see, but don't immediately see, but you're not there, you're not in the middle of the war, you know, when you're in a situation, a situation like that, i can imagine senses are imagine that your senses are heightened. . is, you heightened. everything. is, you know, it's either you or them. you're right. and if you make

the wrong decision, you're gone. >> oh, no. i think the key thing here is that this is not a professional drilled army. these are people who actually not are people who are actually not necessarily conscripted. it's the most the national service. most of the national service. most of the national service. most of the national service. the idf is national service. i'm, i'm fine i'm, you know, i'm fine with that. i've no problem with that. i've got no problem with it. i've been there, you know, but the reality that if but the reality is that if you're trained, skilled you're a trained, skilled soldier, think soldier, you're taught to think twice you fire. twice before you fire. >> i don't know that. so >> i don't know about that. so you have i don't i don't know about that. stephen. i think you have i don't i don't know abotyou at. stephen. i think you have i don't i don't know abotyou are stephen. i think you have i don't i don't know abotyou are talking. i think you have i don't i don't know abotyou are talking from nk you have i don't i don't know abotyou are talking from an that you are talking from an armchair of armchair or the comfort of a studio where you can easily ask, assess information. you've assess the information. you've got that. in the fog got time to do that. in the fog of war, you've got seconds as well. >> i suppose that the fog of war. >> no, no, it would be, because that's in the midst of a war. you imagine you are somewhere where is potentially where everything is potentially a trap, where your life a booby trap, where your life could be in seconds. could be gone in seconds. i don't you'll be thinking twice. >> i think the fact is, they shot a third hostage when he had removed himself from the scene. was lying on the ground speaking removed himself from the scene. was lyincrying1e ground speaking removed himself from the scene. was lyincrying1e gfor1d speaking removed himself from the scene. was lyincrying1e gfor help. eaking hebrew, crying out for help. and they think this was they shot him. i think this was an incident. i agree an appalling incident. i agree with of you. in a sense, with both of you. in a sense, i can see. yes, we are here

talking from armchairs. we don't know what it's like, but at the same time you train defence know what it's like, but at the sameveryz you train defence know what it's like, but at the samevery highly'ain defence know what it's like, but at the samevery highly t0| defence know what it's like, but at the samevery highly to precisely:e force very highly to precisely make no such thing make sure there is no such thing as friendly fire. >> of course, we know it happens, what about. happens, but what about. >> many mistakes >> okay, so how many mistakes have then? oh, umpteen have you made then? oh, umpteen exactly. have you made then? oh, umpteen exa i :ly. sit here have you made then? oh, umpteen exai:ly. sit here all day and >> i could sit here all day and not talk about them, but i don't think anyone. think i've ever killed anyone. >> but in war i hope not anyway. >> not knowingly. >> not knowingly. >> well, not without a good reason. >> in war. oh, i'd have to have a very good reason. >> but listen. no, suzanne, but in war, right? if make in war, right? if you make a mistake, it all costs a life. absolutely. so whilst you know, like you said, you admit yourself. you made mistakes. this mistake. this could be a mistake. but that that is what happens that is the that is what happens in and a mistake. in war. and a mistake. >> and, you know, i think your comment that are here, comment that we are here, armchair commentators is an absolutely armchair commentators is an abswe've' armchair commentators is an abswe've got a nice gb news mug. >> we've got a nice gb news mug. we've got an air condition, we've everything and so we've got everything else and so us here making us sitting here making assessment for somebody the battlefield. >> but fact is that incident >> but the fact is that incident i think to change i think is going to change perception more importantly, perception and more importantly, it's changing perception of the netanyahu the netanyahu government by the

israeli we've got israeli people. so we've got another dimension another political dimension coming heard that? >> where have you heard that? i mean, spoke to uri geller, who mean, i spoke to uri geller, who was in israel, and that's not what was saying. was in israel, and that's not wh.well,nas saying. was in israel, and that's not wh.well,nas �*certainly seen >> well, i've certainly seen several where i mean, several reports where i mean, netanyahu terribly netanyahu was not terribly popular the october the popular before the october the 7th attacks. be i think 7th attacks. to be fair, i think there something about those there was something about those attacks unfortunately, so attacks as unfortunately, so, so often in case, you often happens in this case, you galvanise, around galvanise, you rally around your leader. now, of course, leader. and now, of course, i think the wheels are coming off that incident. >> do you think i'm not so sure, i don't think i mean, i think people would have expected and even you listen there, the even as you listen there, the professor saying actually, even as you listen there, the profeprobably saying actually, even as you listen there, the profeprobably sayingreallyilly, they probably don't really expect any more hostages. expect to get any more hostages. they may even mostly may they may even be mostly they may not even be alive. >> again is why i'm going >> which again is why i'm going back what i said earlier. back to what i said earlier. i don't think calling for a sustainable ceasefire while hamas still holding hamas either is still holding hostage, or perhaps we don't know. never know. those hostages are never going . would be going politically. it. would be impossible for benjamin netanyahu to say that we're giving up on the hostages. >> i mean, last week they were talking bringing talking about actually bringing water mediterranean water in from the mediterranean and tunnels. and and flooding the tunnels. and the well, there's some

the first well, there's some nonsense about would nonsense about this would permeate water permeate the guards and water supply 90% of supply when, you know, 90% of the that they have in the water that they have in gaza, they actually get extraction saline extraction from from saline extraction. did, the extraction. but if they did, the reason they didn't do that was because it might killed the because it might have killed the hostages you cannot give up hostages that you cannot give up on hostages. on the hostages. >> doing the best they >> they're doing the best they can. mistakes will can. and obviously mistakes will happen. horrible happen. it's a horrible situation. we will continue to follow obviously here on gb follow it obviously here on gb news, but if you're tuned follow it obviously here on gb n622, but if you're tuned follow it obviously here on gb n€22 minutes ou're tuned follow it obviously here on gb n€22 minutes after tuned follow it obviously here on gb n€22 minutes after 3:00,jned follow it obviously here on gb n€22 minutes after 3:00, i'mi in 22 minutes after 3:00, i'm nana we're live on tv, nana akua. we're live on tv, onune nana akua. we're live on tv, online on digital radio. online and on digital radio. still to trans ideology. still to come, trans ideology. is becoming a threat after is it becoming a threat after social allegedly social workers are allegedly teaching children trans trans ideology fact

isabel monday to thursdays from. six till 930. >> 26 minutes after 3:00. this is gb news. we are the people's channel. i'm nana akua. we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. it's time to go head to head in a clash of minds. i'm asking can sunak survive another by—election defeat with independent mp scott benton suspended for 35 days a by—election will now be held in his blackpool south seat in a timed sting, the mp was caught offering a lobbed offering to lobby ministers and leak confidential information in return . for £4,000 a month. so return. for £4,000 a month. so there you go. what do you think? can sunak survive yet another by—election defeat to his party? i come, we come to you stephen pound. well blackpool south was a labour seat for a long time. pound. well blackpool south was a l.gordon3at for a long time. pound. well blackpool south was a l.gordon marsden.ong time. pound. well blackpool south was a l.gordon marsden was time. pound. well blackpool south was a l.gordon marsden was thee. pound. well blackpool south was a l.gordon marsden was the mp >> gordon marsden was the mp there and scott benton only won

it time. reality is it last time. the reality is that unlikely that it's most unlikely statistically. look at statistically. if you look at peter power , he's written peter paddy power, he's written it off already. it's a labour gain. got no doubt about gain. we've got no doubt about that. what's what's really that. but what's what's really horrific is not horrific about this is not i mean, scott burton, you know, we're benton. we're just parked scott benton. let's leave him as a let's just leave him as a as a footprint in on the sands of time. but look, this is yet again an image of mps as being greedy, venal, toerags the again an image of mps as being gree no, of course i wouldn't. >> no, of course i wouldn't. >> what he what did is >> what he what he did is clearly wrong. i mean, can sunak survive by—election? survive another by—election? well the answer, well probably is the answer, because lose it. because i think he'll lose it. but he'll lose but he can survive. he'll lose it. mean. yes. it. that's what i mean. yes. yes, sir. thanks for clarifying, stephen. we've stephen. you know, we've had four conservative prime four more conservative prime ministers years. four

ministers in as many years. four leaders the conservative leaders of the conservative party years. don't party and four years. i don't think there's the appetite in the conservative party to have another election, another leadership election, particularly not this close to a potential general election. so, yes, survive. i think he's yes, he'll survive. i think he's a terrible leader myself. i think the tory party is completely split , um, between completely split, um, between between the kind of more right wing and the sort of so—called one nation tories and, uh, it's going to be very, very difficult to pull it together. and rishi is certainly not the man to do that. >> headbangers and snowflakes. >> headbangers and snowflakes. >> is that how you describe it? yes well, i wouldn't put it quite like that. but um. well, no, because you're rather better educated other educated than the other personally . personally. >> be fair, you're >> well, to be fair, you're posh.i >> well, to be fair, you're posh. i am not very you. >> you're quite posh yourself. >> you're quite posh yourself. >> what you are. >> do what you are. >> do what you are. >> definitely not partial . >> definitely not partial. >> definitely not partial. >> well, let's not get into houer >> well, let's not get into holier than thou comprehensive >> well, let's not get into holier �*girl. thou comprehensive school girl. >> me ? >> me? >> me? >> yeah. really? >> yeah. really? >> absolutely. yeah yeah. >> absolutely. yeah. yeah yeah. >> absolutely. yeah. yeah yeah. >> tragically >> it's tragic. tragically i when i went to school, we didn't have comprehensives. they didn't come in till 65 and i was out the door by then. >> well i'm the stuck up one. i went to a private school run by

nuns, privately educated. well, they proper education, they used proper education, proper posh. so what do you think then, keir starmer? they're saying keir starmer they're saying that keir starmer is now taking up the sort of right wing ground and uh, because obviously you're seeing what's to the tory what's happened to the tory party. they've of lost party. they've sort of lost ground completely. you do you ground completely. do you do you think true? has labour think that's true? has labour gone towards the right. think that's true? has labour gor no. wards the right. think that's true? has labour gor no. wmean, e right. think that's true? has labour gor no. wmean, compared the >> no. i mean, compared to the corbyn in 2019, be corbyn manifesto in 2019, to be honestly anything be honestly anything would be a move the right. i don't move towards the right. i don't think it's an issue there. i think it's an issue there. i think his comments about margaret were margaret thatcher were interesting one interesting because on the one hand, that was hand, it seemed that he was actually paying to actually paying credit to somebody who knew what they wanted out and seized wanted and went out and seized it. on the other hand, a lot of people on the far actually people on the far left actually were furious about this. they revile they think that he's revile him. they think that he's actually bigging up margaret thatcher, who's still a hate figure. i mean, you know, it's a tosh. mcdonald >> he was, though, >> well, he was, though, wasn't he? he really was. >> i don't think he was. >> well, i don't think he was. i think in some he was he's think in some ways he was he's not going to be unhappy if he actually infuriates the corbynite you know, corbynite left that, you know, basically an interest basically he's got an interest in but think his point in that. but i think his point was you actually need

was that you actually need a prime minister what prime minister who knows what they is to prepared go they want and is to prepared go and it. i think whatever and get it. and i think whatever you say about margaret thatcher and i campaigned against against her with every breath in my body. the fact you had to body. but the fact is you had to actually have some element of smidgen someone smidgen of respect for someone who they wanted and who knew what they wanted and went got it. went and got it. >> but but keir starmer, unfortunately couldn't even define is. define what working class is. did you hear on lbc when he did you hear him on lbc when he couldn't did you hear him on lbc when he couiin't did you hear him on lbc when he coui don't listen to lbc, who does? >>a does? >> a lot of people actually. well, temporarily. well he made a bit of a fool of a little bit of a fool of himself was it. >> no, because his father was. >> no, because his father was. >> we do clip actually. >> we do have a clip actually. i wonder if we. i don't know whether can up the whether we can rustle up the clip. it's we're playing it later on in the show, but you must stay and have a listen to that most that because that was most entertaining. was almost entertaining. it was almost as bad woman, woman. entertaining. it was almost as bacyes,~oman, woman. entertaining. it was almost as bacyes, i)man, woman. entertaining. it was almost as bacyes, i thought)man. entertaining. it was almost as bacyes, i thought inan. entertaining. it was almost as bacyes, i thought i could see >> yes, i thought i could see that. i could see that coming. >> it coming when he >> you can see it coming when he does that. well, listen, keep your thoughts coming. what are your thoughts coming. what are you then? you think you saying then? do you think that sunak can that perhaps, uh, sunak can survive for another election defeat? he will survive, i suppose, short period suppose, for the short period of time. think they need to

time. do you think they need to call it a general election? perhaps that's what needs perhaps that that's what needs to though, to happen. obviously, though, they probably lose they know they'll probably lose that they know they'll probably lose tha there's elections. >> there's two by elections. yeah, peter bone as well. yeah, but peter bone as well. >> did peter do. remind everybody. >> well he bullied a member of staff. he also was a rather extraordinary. actually extraordinary. if you actually read report on of mr read the report on the of mr when was in on in gibraltar when he was in on in gibraltar with young assistant from with the young assistant from his and apparently he his office and apparently he i can't actually say a sunday can't actually say on a sunday afternoon don't do it, don't do it. his eye out. >> well, listen, but listen what about this? so how would you like win £10,000 cash? uh, like to win a £10,000 cash? uh, brand tech and shopping brand new tech and shopping vouchers. well could be the vouchers. well you could be the winner our very first great winner of our very first great british all the british giveaway. here's all the details you could make details about how you could make those yours if you vote conservative. >> no, don't vote for them. >> no, don't vote for them. >> is your chance to win >> this is your chance to win cash, and tech our cash, treats and tech in our very first great british giveaway, there's totally tax very first great british give £10,0005re's totally tax very first great british give £10,000 cash totally tax very first great british give £10,000 cash up tally tax very first great british give £10,000 cash up for.y tax very first great british give £10,000 cash up for grabs free £10,000 cash up for grabs cash, make 2024 cash, which would help make 2024 a whole lot better. we're also going send you shopping with going to send you shopping with £500 of vouchers spend £500 worth of vouchers to spend in your choice. in the store of your choice. what would be your shopping what would be on your shopping list new iphone? we've list if it's a new iphone? we've also that covered with

also got that covered too, with the iphone 15 pro max, the latest iphone 15 pro max, which you'll receive for which you'll also receive for another chance to win the iphone.the another chance to win the iphone. the vouchers and £10,000 cash gb news in to 84 902. text cost £2 plus one standard network rate message , or post network rate message, or post your name and to number gb news zero one, po box 8690. derby . zero one, po box 8690. derby. dh1 nine uk only entrance must be 18 or over. lines close at 5 pm. on friday the 5th of january. full terms and privacy nofice january. full terms and privacy notice at gbnews.com. forward slash win. good luck . slash win. good luck. >> either of them right. >> either of them right. >> well you're with me. i'm nana akua. this is gb news on tv, onune akua. this is gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. still to come, the church of england has right to bless same sex couples. but first, it's your latest news headlines with sam. >> nana. thank you. good afternoon. the headlines this

houn afternoon. the headlines this hour. the home office insists that it has robust plans for flights to rwanda following reports that airlines are refusing to take part in the government's asylum policy . government's asylum policy. well, it comes as the chairman of the erg group of mps says plans are in place for some amendments to the bill. pressure is growing on israel, with david cameron joining germany's foreign affairs minister in calling for a ceasefire in gaza . calling for a ceasefire in gaza. in a joint article for the sunday times this morning, the foreign secretary warned that too many civilians have been killed and that it's time for a sustainable ceasefire, for the intervention is a significant shift in the government's tone on israel's war against hamas terrorists. however lord cameron stopped short of calling for an immediate ceasefire . north korea immediate ceasefire. north korea has . fired what appears to be a has. fired what appears to be a ballistic missile, as it blamed the us for a show of force that was like nuclear war. japan's coast guard has said that the rocket fell about 20 minutes after launch . officials in tokyo after launch. officials in tokyo and seoul have warned that a nuclear armed rogue state, north

korea, had been pushed preparing rather to fire one of its longest range missiles, all of which are banned by the united nafions. which are banned by the united nations. here in the uk, labour has accused the government of sending the nhs into the colder months naked amid warnings of a winter crisis. the shadow health secretary told gb news that some of the funding problems facing the health system are due to excessive tape and more wet excessive red tape and more wet weather is on the way in scotland , with the met office scotland, with the met office issuing another amber warning which could cause danger to life in the north west. up to eight inches of rain was forecast this weekend, more to come . weekend, with more to come. experts say it's likely to cause travel chaos, floods and possible landslide rides . well, possible landslide rides. well, as ever, you can get more on all of those stories by visiting our website gbnews.com. this is . website gbnews.com. this is. gb news still to come.

>> we're going head to head in a clash of minds is trans ideology becoming a threat in our society

sunday mornings from 930 on gb news . news. >> welcome back. this is a gb news on tv online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua and it's time for head to head. and next on the menu is this one. it's

vulnerable. children are allegedly being taught trans ideology as fact. now this comes as guidance given to social workers reportedly recommends asking children as young as 13 whether they are transgender and what they identify as now. they're also told to ask children about their sexuality, sexual orientation and gender identity . but this sexual orientation and gender identity. but this has led to questions of whether trans ideology is now becoming a threat. well, joining me to go head to head on this one, the clash of minds is the former ukip deputy chair and political commentator, suzanne evans, and also former labour mp stephen pound. suzanne, i'm going to come to you with this one. is trans ideology a threat? >> totally incensed this. >> i'm totally incensed by this. actually. pernicious actually. this is the pernicious influence stonewall. again, actually. this is the pernicious infllknow, stonewall. again, actually. this is the pernicious infllknow, the tonewall. again, actually. this is the pernicious infllknow, the extreme again, actually. this is the pernicious infllknow, the extreme pro—gay you know, the extreme pro—gay pro—trans lobby that has got its fingers all manner of fingers into all manner of pubuc fingers into all manner of public and private institutions. and it seriously and i find it seriously worrying. here we have worrying. so here we have a situation where vulnerable children who've perhaps experienced domestic abuse , drug experienced domestic abuse, drug abuse, perhaps they've been excluded from school because of their family problems, are approached socialworkers

their family problems, are approached social workers , approached by social workers, presumably there to help them and they're asked, oh, your parents have told me you're a girl. agree with that? girl. do you agree with that? and it's like, what the heck? so, um, it's just an appalling thing to do when you when you're talking to an already vulnerable child. now, obviously, if that child. now, obviously, if that child flags up that there is an issue their their issue around their their sexuality their gender sexuality or their gender identity and that is causing conflict within the family, that is totally different issue. is a totally different issue. but to ask children as young as 13, are you sure you're a boy? basically. you like i just basically. would you like i just think it's pernicious and horrible. well, it's probably just puberty because, you know, that's it? that's absurd, isn't it? >> allow me to totally >> would you allow me to totally and disagree with what and entirely disagree with what suzanne said? suzanne just said? >> what you want. >> do what you want. >> do what you want. >> is advice in family >> this is advice in the family courts, you know, anyone courts, and you know, anyone who's had any experience of family it's of family courts and it's one of the most heartbreaking areas you'll get involved you'll ever, ever get involved in. they're is that in. what they're saying is that you the child, your you should ask the child, your parents that you're boy. parents say that you're a boy. do agree? do your parents do you agree? or do your parents say you're a girl? do you agree? because in some cases, the child will say, actually, no, i don't

agree. like my parents agree. i don't like my parents calling boy. i which case calling me a boy. i which case they can that with their they can flag that up with their social because that social worker because that will have ongoing issue for have been an ongoing issue for the opportunity. >> sorry, stephen. no you're wrong. >> p- p" w the family >> when a child is in the family courts and i've been there with people in that situation, they are often are traumatised and very often they've emerged from a situation, scene of utter situation, a scene of utter horror. want horror. i can't even want to talk about chances of their talk about the chances of their issue whether they're a boy issue of whether they're a boy or girl. there are some parents who force an identity who actually force an identity on children, of their on their children, on of their own there are some own choice, and there are some parents you parents who treat their. and you just at the poor, the poor just look at the poor, the poor kid batty, who's kept in this sort cult spain. sort of lunatic cult in spain. some parents who force things on their it's entirely their children. it's entirely legitimate, to their children. it's entirely legi to rate, to their children. it's entirely legito ate, to their children. it's entirely legito a child, to their children. it's entirely legito a child, your to their children. it's entirely legito a child, your mothero say to a child, your mother says, you're a you're a boy. do you agree? and if the boy. actually, no, i'm a girl. i think that's when it comes. you say to draw out. say you've got to draw it out. i think that's when we have to do. you're not saying, would you like to be a boy? would you like to girl? it's actually to be a girl? it's actually saying, think? saying, what do you think? compared with your parents think? >> yeah, but, stephen, this is going a tiny minority of

going to be a tiny minority of children. and asking that children. and by asking that very question as very intrusive question as something most of them very intrusive question as som being most of them very intrusive question as som be self, most of them very intrusive question as som be self, they most of them very intrusive question as som be self, they mc be of them very intrusive question as som be self, they mcbe a them very intrusive question as som be self, they mcbe a boyn will be self, they will be a boy or a girl. end of story. and they will. you know, i imagine that the number of parents trying their boy a trying to turn their boy into a girl vice versa is small. girl and vice versa is small. where this end? so what do where does this end? so what do you do? you have to have a you do? so you have to have a long checklist for you. where did worker did social worker did. >> significant stephen >> it's significant stephen where that from? where did you get that from? >> mean just just look >> because i mean just just look at you talked about at you. you talked about stonewall. talk about mermaids. talk look. talk about the mermaid. look. look statistic that look at the statistic that mermaids produce. >> statistics the >> look at the statistics of the cases children the family cases of children in the family courts actually resent being courts who actually resent being described you know, described in one, you know, could be could it not, could it be could it not, perhaps because of people asking ridiculous like that, ridiculous questions like that, because like because mermaids, again, like stonewall, organisation because mermaids, again, like stone\has organisation because mermaids, again, like stone\has an organisation because mermaids, again, like stone\has an agenda nisation because mermaids, again, like stone\has an agenda to ation because mermaids, again, like stone\has an agenda to it.)n because mermaids, again, like stone\has an agenda to it. i'm which has an agenda to it. i'm not going defend their not going to defend their agenda. i'm very glad agenda. no, i'm very glad to hear that, because think what hear that, because i think what mermaids personally mermaids are doing personally is really dangerous. really very, very dangerous. very indeed. but what very dangerous indeed. but what do supposed a do we have supposed to have a do a your mum a checklist, right? your mum says you're a boy. is that true? your you're your mum says you, you're a christian. is that true or are you a muslim? your mum says you

like playing with cars. is like playing with toy cars. is that i mean, you have this. that i mean, you can have this. could on and on. but could go on and on and on. but it isn't. surely the job of the social worker. >> nobody saying your mum >> nobody is saying your mum says a muslim, are you says you're a muslim, are you a muslim? is saying that. muslim? nobody is saying that. >> about >> it's talking about and identity parents identity and how parents describe children how describe their children and how they bring them up. social workers need to at workers need to look at the whole setup and the whole whole family setup and the whole family and they need family scenario, and they need to out of that. what to extrapolate out of that. what are issues now? accept to extrapolate out of that. what are there .ues now? accept to extrapolate out of that. what are there might w? accept to extrapolate out of that. what are there might be accept to extrapolate out of that. what are there might be times pt to extrapolate out of that. what are there might be times when that there might be times when sexuality and gender come up, but think to force children to but i think to force children to think when actually think about this when actually they've other they've got far more other issues. know, dad issues. you know, my dad sexually me, mum hits sexually abusing me, my mum hits me, it might be, focus me, whatever it might be, focus on issues. focus on on the real issues. focus on what child is telling. i'm what the child is telling. i'm sorry, try and don't try and sorry, not try and don't try and brainwash the child into thinking else. thinking about something else. >> know about the >> you know? you know about the sapphire you know sapphire programme. you know that the metropolitan police investigating that the metropolitan police investigonelg that the metropolitan police investigone of things abuse, one of the things they use little models. and they use is little models. and they actually the child to actually it asks the child to actually, place the actually, you know, place the model the absolutely. model in the absolutely. >> yes. >> yes. >> you know, is that intrusive? no. to ascertain the no. it's trying to ascertain the truth the reality to truth and the reality and to make sure rhiannon jones get

banged because the police are >> that's because the police are already investigating. it's an ongoing it's not ongoing investigation. it's not trying be trying to get children to be something. >> comes a >> very often it comes to a child into into child who goes into into hospital to a&e for a completely different they different issue, and they discover signs of physical discover that signs of physical abuse, sapphire very often. >> so that's involved. often. >> so that's when'ed. often. >> so that's when they wish to >> so that's when they i wish to god didn't know that. god i didn't know that. >> i just think being asked, are you girl? or frankly, if you a girl? or frankly, if somebody said to me, is this an are you a woman? are you sure you're really a man? find you're not really a man? i find that suddenly offensive. >> actually. can >> it's ridiculous actually. can i come back to i just just come back to the real world let's get back to real world and let's get back to the real world? steven. that's youn the real world? steven. that's your. actually saying your. if you are actually saying that an acceptable your. if you are actually saying that then an acceptable your. if you are actually saying that then i'macceptable your. if you are actually saying that then i'm goingable your. if you are actually saying that then i'm going toe your. if you are actually saying that then i'm going to ask you thing, then i'm going to ask you what is a boy a boy is a male child with a penis. >> right? so if you have you're talking to a boy and you're asking boy or girl. >> what you've just said there is a ridiculous. >> yeah. no, no, that's not the question. what saying is question. what they're saying is your you are. do you your parents say you are. do you agree ? agree? >> yeah, but but it's a bear >> yeah, but but but it's a bear in mind what you've just said. yeah, you've defined what yeah, well, you've defined what a boy is. that seems a bit odd

for you then, agree with that sentiment. >> i know a girl who is transitioning at the moment at present time, who was born as a boy. i mean, she should have the opportunity she. >> no, no, no, she was she's a boy. yeah. and who wants boy. yeah. and a boy who wants to like a girl in transition. to be like a girl in transition. yeah, but who wants to be like a girl? but he should still know that. >> is that not a crucial factor? >> is that not a crucial factor? >> is that not a crucial factor? >> i mean, it's what informs every aspect of that woman's life. >> yeah, okay. she technically she's a boy, but she's. >> well, that's the point, isn't it? this is suzanne's point, is >> well, that's the point, isn't it? 'confusion:anne's point, is >> well, that's the point, isn't it? 'confusion thate's point, is >> well, that's the point, isn't it? 'confusion that you're t, is >> well, that's the point, isn't it? 'confusion that you're laying the confusion that you're laying in there. even you sound in place there. even you sound confused it. look if you confused about it. look if you have male genitalia, you are a man or a boy. if you have female genitalia, you are a girl or a female. i don't really see why. >> for the rest of your life though. >> well, you are still that thing biologically. what we're talking. what we're talking about cosmetic surgery. it's about is cosmetic surgery. it's plastic cosmetic it's plastic surgery. cosmetic it's plastic. yes it is. it's to look like something. it's not functioning in the way that the thing because a woman will thing does, because a woman will have all the other bits that

make you a woman , which is how make you a woman, which is how we a woman, a man is. >> afternoon. i just think you have situation here, have a situation here, potentially, you're potentially, where you're talking say, let's say talking to, let's say, let's say a just just for you've got a girl just just for you've got to one or the other is to choose one or the other is being seriously abused. being seriously sexually abused. and of this, you and in the midst of this, you have some ridiculous social worker well, are you worker saying, well, are you sure you're a at so sure you're a girl at all? so therefore can't be therefore maybe you can't be raped a girl raped if you're not a girl saying and they're not saying that, and they're not saying that, and they're not saying that, and they're not saying that i'm sorry. just saying. >> your mother says you're a boy or your father says or a girl. your father says you're you know. you you're a, you know. do you agree? yes or no? move on. next question. well, i think question. well, again, i think it's leading question. it's a leading question. >> it's a leading >> i think it's a leading question. leading question. it's a question. it's a leading question. it's unnecessary for someone who's around going through unnecessary for someone who's around when going through unnecessary for someone who's around when going kind gh unnecessary for someone who's around when going kind of puberty, when you are kind of confused what your gender confused about what your gender identity don't really identity is, you don't really know what i mean. you don't know what the definition of the so—called stereotypical definition boy definition of a boy or stereotypical definition of a girl you girl is, and therefore for you to to ask you to to for someone to ask you to define whether you are one or the other. >> was 13, somebody might >> when i was 13, somebody might have said to me, are you a girl? and i said, no, i quite like

and i said, no, but i quite like to be a boy, because i probably did to be a boy. and i was did want to be a boy. and i was 30. i was a bit of a tomboy. i liked it, you know, they might have you gay or have said, oh, are you gay or straight? i might a bit straight? well, i might be a bit gay because really love my gay because i really love my best friend. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> just it's putting a >> i just think it's putting a whole confusion on whole layer of confusion on whether i'm a boy. >> way, i'm sorry you're >> by the way, i'm sorry you're the by the who? i'm the record by the who? i'm a boy. i'm a boy. but my won't boy. i'm a boy. but my ma won't admit a boy, i'm a boy, admit it. i'm a boy, i'm a boy, i know i am. you not heard that? no. oh, you young, i'm afraid not. of a dinosaur, >> i'm a bit of a dinosaur, aren't i? >> e have p- e have to hear >> well, i don't have to hear what viewers think. and the what the viewers think. and the listeners think that, listeners think about that, because to me, it seems like a leading someone leading question to someone who's very vulnerable, especially going especially if they're going through you're through puberty. whether you're asking confusing asking them this confusing narrative ideology, asking them this confusing narratbiology ideology, asking them this confusing narratbiology i(tology, asking them this confusing narratbiology i(to trump when biology or sex has to trump all, but what's all, that's my view. but what's yours? views gb news. but yours? gb views gb news. com but on to another topic that caught my have become one my eye. a couple have become one of first same of the first same sex partnerships receive partnerships to receive a blessing of blessing at the church of england. jane england. catherine bond and jane pierce prayers of love pierce had the prayers of love and at their this and faith at their ceremony this morning. voluntary morning. due to a voluntary decision has decision from ministers, but has raised concern among some quarters church quarters. asking is the church of england right to bless same sex couples ? stephen pound, i'm

sex couples? stephen pound, i'm going ask you . they're going to ask you. no, they're not to bless same sex not right to bless same sex couples. >> why? look, here's what amazes me this. these two, me about this. these two, they're priests themselves . they're both priests themselves. and were both previously and they were both previously married. children, and they were both previously marthey've children, and they were both previously marthey've decided children, and they were both previously marthey've decided ciloveen, and they were both previously martother. decided ciloveen, and they were both previously martother. fine ded ciloveen, and they were both previously martother. fine and ciloveen, and they were both previously martother. fine and ciiwanti, and they were both previously m.have1er. fine and ciiwanti, and they were both previously m.have ar. fine and ciiwanti, and they were both previously m.have a permanent ciiwanti, and they were both previously m.have a permanent union.ant1, to have a permanent union. absolutely have a civil absolutely fine. have a civil partnership . why go a partnership. why go into a church ? why don't then want church? why don't you then want to seek god's blessing on your relationship in that sense? look, it's a wedding. the marriage in this country is a christian structure , simple as christian structure, simple as that. and so i simply don't understand why people feel that this is an alternative to a civil partnership, which i support . support. >> susan pound i, i couldn't disagree more. i couldn't disagree more. i couldn't disagree more. i couldn't disagree more. excellent. i think this is lovely . i think think this is lovely. i think you have women who have you have two women here who have committed their lives to each other, and they want to do so in the face of their god, whom they both represent and work in both represent and work for in their i think it's the their church. i think it's the most thing. and to most beautiful thing. and to say, oh, they have say, oh, they should have a civil partnership. well no, stephen, people in stephen, for many people in marriage, element marriage, that religious element of the ceremony very of the ceremony is very important and a civil ceremony

simply can't match up to this. and should they be denied a and why should they be denied a service in church? so obviously the situation at the moment is that of england is that the church of england is not marry people. not allowed to marry people. there a specific exemption there was a specific exemption given church of given same sex church of england, same sex, same yes, england, so same sex, same yes, same couples in the in the same sex couples in the in the in the marriage act in that relevant um and so relevant marriage act um and so this for me is something that should been done years ago. should have been done years ago. well i'm sorry, do you think people are going to get married in synagogue and mosques and mandirs and gurdwaras are they simply to happen. simply isn't going to happen. that matter. that's not that doesn't matter. that's not it the question was it it does. the question is, was it was ceremony the right was this ceremony the right thing to happen? no, no. and yes , in my absolutely. , in my view, absolutely. >> gay muslim man or >> if you're a gay muslim man or a muslim woman want a gay muslim woman and you want to get married mosque, to get married in your mosque, you're not going hundred years. but they will see this and they will say, why they saying will say, why are they saying that partnership is that the civil partnership is inferior? when think the civil inferior? when i think the civil partnership should be extend to people of all faiths and all religion, if are person of religion, if you are a person of faith, you want your your relationship to be recognised by that faith. >> w— >> and frankly, you know, i think synagogues, mosques, temples, they should be thinking

about . about doing the same thing. absolutely. not they absolutely. i'm not saying they will, don't think they will. >> do you want suggest that >> do you want to suggest that to them? i happily to them? because i happily now put camera. to them? because i happily now put quiteimera. to them? because i happily now put quite happy to do >> i'm quite happy to do it. yeah. synagogues. think yeah. mosque synagogues. think about it's a about doing this. i think it's a good yeah. good thing. happy yeah. >> week. >> see you next week. >> see you next week. >> that's probably going to >> that's probably not going to happen mosques happen, though. mosques and synagogues. is, synagogues. i don't think it is, but they're strict with but they're quite strict with their gurdwaras their religion and gurdwaras and mandirs. well, they're quite strict about the rules of their religion, and they don't tend to sort veer off the path of sort of veer off the path of what is written in their scriptures. um, the scriptures. but we, um, with the bible to adapt it, and bible seem to adapt it, and i think that's the right thing to do. stephen, surely, you know, people, are being people, more things are being more sorted and love is more accept sorted and love is love isn't it? >> i'm sorry. i believe in received wisdom. received truth. as far as concerned, the as far as i'm concerned, the bible a significance far bible has a significance far beyond of paper with beyond a piece of paper with some it. far as i'm some ink on it. as far as i'm concerned, bible the word some ink on it. as far as i'm co god. ed, bible the word some ink on it. as far as i'm co god. actuallyyible the word some ink on it. as far as i'm co god. actually transmitted vord of god. actually transmitted through agency and i think through human agency and i think we mess with that at our peril. the minute we start changing and chopping and changing and dividing new dividing and coming up with new interpretations. can't interpretations. no you can't actually, we dilute the essential actually, we dilute the essentiaithat way you evolve >> isn't that the way you evolve the religion and keep people? that's churches that's probably why the churches

are now. no one are almost empty now. no one wants to go. >> my church is packed. >> my church is packed. >> yeah, well, 8:00 this morning. how old are they? are they all old people, though? >> well, i'm one of the younger people yes, that's what i mean. >> if you do that, then you need to, you know, to to, you know, you need to bring in you know, in younger people. you know, people and people need to come in. and that's some of that's probably why some of these churches losing their followers. >> think. ithink followers. >> think. i think that's >> i think. i think that's potentially it. but, you know, i'm is case. i'm afraid it is the case. i think don't know what i'm sort think i don't know what i'm sort of assumptions from what of making assumptions from what you said, about you said, stephen, about the kind you to. and kind of church you go to. and i'm probably quite i'm assuming it's probably quite evangelical. you know, it's roman catholic, it's roman catholic. okay. well, then, i don't know. roman don't know. many roman catholics, don't know. many roman catibible literal of the bible is the literal word of god.so the bible is the literal word of god. so i'm surprised to god. so i'm quite surprised to hear that the new hear you say that the new testament. i personally, testament. well, i personally, i call but i call myself a christian, but i can't accept that. i think it's fallible. written by men fallible. it was written by men and know. well, men and women, you know. well, men actually be about actually, let's be honest about it. women , um, and, uh, it. and women, um, and, uh, well, about about the well, stories about about the women. well apocrypha arguably, but yes, but , women. well apocrypha arguably, but yes, but, um, this is a discussion about the apocrypha . discussion about the apocrypha. >> well, listen. >> well, listen. >> well, listen. >> well, no, i don't think we should. no, no, because you're now boring me on this one. i

don't want to do this, but i want to. >> could. we could >> we could. we could bore you even because bore >> no, no, because bore everybody. listen, everybody. well, listen, listen, i um, uh, have i want to actually, um, uh, have a chat with these people. the royal association and, uh, royal naval association and, uh, the and the greenford legion is it stephen? >> yes. we're there. are they there ? there? >> well, there might be. there's a them. they a picture of them. they were there had picture and there and you had a picture and hopefully we're going get hopefully we're going to get a picture there. they are. picture of them there. they are. look, they're look, apparently they're watching the show, although it looks like they've almost finished so maybe finished their meal. so maybe they watching. finished their meal. so maybe the they're watching. finished their meal. so maybe the they're on watching. finished their meal. so maybe the they're on the itching. finished their meal. so maybe the they're on the alcohol course >> they're on the alcohol course are they. >> oh, that's very good. very good. with good. are you familiar with naval you naval traditions? so you were with little bit earlier. >> they were tots. were earlier. >> theourare tots. were earlier. >> the our tots. »ts. were having our tots. >> mean? >> what does that mean? >> what does that mean? >> tot ? >> a tot? >> a tot? >> no. what it mean? >> no. what does it mean? >> no. what does it mean? >> rum dancing, little >> whisky. rum dancing, little glass yeah glass toddy. yeah >> in the royal navy. >> no, a tot in the royal navy. we to have a thing called we used to have a thing called up when allowed up spirits. when you're allowed to of rum , to actually have a glass of rum, it's mostly defend ourselves it's mostly to defend ourselves against cold. against fear of the cold. >> they call it >> and i think they call it a shot these days. >> call it tots up. >> no, we call it tots up. >> no, we call it tots up. >> spirits is sort >> spirits is the sort of a shot, it? shot, though, isn't it? >> in the navy, we >> no, no, but in the navy, we call it a tot. >> yeah, i know, it's like >> yeah, i know, but it's like a shot, it? shot, isn't it? >> well, anyway. >> well, anyway.

>> yeah, yeah, yeah. right. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. all right. shot it well, shot top, whatever it is. well, listen, are thoughts? listen, what are your thoughts? >> on anything. >> we can't agree on anything. >> we can't agree on anything. >> they it >> they can't. can they keep it coming. news tv, coming. this is gb news on tv, onune coming. this is gb news on tv, online and digital radio. online and on digital radio. what are your thoughts on that? keep them coming on the way. i'll monologue . and i'll be doing my monologue. and today my monologue is on tahmima bagan. yes, because she's come back into the news. people are talking about whether she should be coming back to this country because america putting because america are putting pressure on europe and all other countries to take back all the people gone to people who have gone off to places syria, have done places like syria, who have done illegal things or whatever dunng illegal things or whatever during and so on and during those wars. and so on and so so you think? so forth. so what do you think? should we take her back? keep all your thoughts gbviews@gbnews.com. you also gbviews@gbnews.com. you can also tweet at gb news. don't tweet me at gb news. don't forget as well my outside guest who's a politician and a businessman who was a member of the parliament and a the european parliament and a fourth generation salmon fourth generation smoked salmon business owner, sounds a bit fishy to me. oh just had some of his salmon for my christmas present for my friend ross . present for my friend ross. >> well, an up next. >> well, it's an up next. >> well, it's an up next. >> monologue . shamima >> it's my monologue. shamima bagan think should bagan what do you think should she the uk? danny she come back to the uk? danny kelly and christine hamilton will weather.

will be here after the weather. >> outlook with boxt >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsor of weather on . gb news. >> hello there . good afternoon. >> hello there. good afternoon. i'm jonathan vautrey here of your gb news weather forecast provided by the met office. it is quite a windy day out there for many of us. we've seen gusts of 50 to 60mph places. so do of 50 to 60mph in places. so do take travel take care because some travel disruption . the disruption is possible. the persistent rain that we have seen across western scotland this weekend slowly going this weekend is slowly going to be as into be easing out as we head into this evening overnight, but this evening and overnight, but it does mean going be it does mean it's going to be pushing southwards pushing its way southwards into northern ireland, northwest england, quite a england, western wales. quite a damp southeast england, western wales. quite a da england, southeast england, western wales. quite a daengland, holding southeast england, western wales. quite a daengland, holding soutisome of england, holding on to some dner of england, holding on to some drier conditions, but still fairly cloudy here. fairly mild and cloudy here. temperatures of us only temperatures for most of us only up between 9 and 11 c as we head into monday. then it's looking like quite a grey drab, damp day for the vast majority of us, particularly for the vast majority of us, partic see ly for the vast majority of us, partic see outbreaks of rain we'll see outbreaks of rain further towards the east. it will lighter and will be slightly lighter and patchier and actually some brighter push patchier and actually some brighway push patchier and actually some brighway into push patchier and actually some brighway into scotland push patchier and actually some brighway into scotland and ush their way into scotland and northern ireland as we head into

the and the winds the afternoon, and the winds will here touch, will ease down here a touch, but further showers pushing into the far scotland later far northwest of scotland later on again on as well. temperatures again fairly average for the fairly above average for the time ranging between 10 time of year, ranging between 10 and 13 c into tuesday. we've got this next set of fronts. they're going to start pushing their way in across of the in and across the south of the uk. england and uk. and so it's england and wales to bear the wales are going to bear the brunt of the rainfall head brunt of the rainfall as we head into here. quite a wet into the day here. quite a wet rush hour period. off rush hour period. start off the day . quite of spray on day. quite a lot of spray on roads possible . it roads is certainly possible. it will very blustery as will still be very blustery as all this pushes way all of this rain pushes its way off. brighter for off. some brighter spells for scotland. northern still off. some brighter spells for scotla1d. northern still off. some brighter spells for scotla scattering'n still off. some brighter spells for scotla scattering'n showers,ill with a scattering of showers, though will be though some of those will be wintry higher ground. wintry over the higher ground. and theme showers and it's that theme of showers that we that will persist as we head throughout the rest of the week. by throughout the rest of the week. by by, looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. of weather on. gb news. >> hello! thank you for being a big part of gb news. >> we'd like to wish you and your loved ones a christmas season full of comfort and joy , season full of comfort and joy, as well as a peaceful and

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i >> -- >> hello. good afternoon . it's

>> hello. good afternoon. it's fast approaching 4:00. this is gb news on tv online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua . digital radio. i'm nana akua. and for the next two hours, me and my panel will be taking on some of the big topics hitting the headlines right now , this the headlines right now, this show about opinion. it's show is all about opinion. it's mine, it's theirs. and of course it's . we'll be debating, it's yours. we'll be debating, discussing times will discussing and at times we will disagree. one will be disagree. but no one will be cancelled. so joining me today is broadcaster and journalist danny kelly, broadcaster danny kelly, also broadcaster and author christine hamilton . and author christine hamilton. before we get started though, let's get your latest news with polly . polly. >> nana, thank you and good afternoon to you. well, our top story . from the gb newsroom story. from the gb newsroom today is that the home office insists it does have robust plans for flights to rwanda, following that some following reports that some airlines to take airlines are refusing to take part government's asylum part in the government's asylum policy . it comes as man who policy. it comes as the man who led a rebellion against the policy says plans are in place for some amendments to the bill in the new year. gb news

presenter camilla tominey asked mark francois if his opposition to the rwanda plan risked making the perfect the enemy of the good. >> if the good doesn't work , >> if the good doesn't work, then it's not good enough. >> it needs it needs to be good enough. >> it needs it needs to be good enough . now, on a positive note , enough. now, on a positive note, sir, bill cash is already talking to government lawyers about trying to come up with an amendment that actually, if you like, would fill those holes that would be a very positive thing too. if anybody can draft that amendment, it's bill. yes so he and others are talking to the government in a positive way about trying to draft something to make sure that the bill is fit for purpose and that amendment will be tabled in time for the committee stage , which for the committee stage, which is probably going to be in the second half of january. >> mark francois , international >> mark francois, international news and there's been growing pressure on israel , with david pressure on israel, with david cameron joining germany's foreign affairs minister in calling for a ceasefire in gaza .

calling for a ceasefire in gaza. >> in a joint article written for the sunday times newspaper , for the sunday times newspaper, the new foreign secretary warns that too many civilians have been killed and it's time for a sustainable ceasefire . the sustainable ceasefire. the intervention is a significant shift in the government's approach to israel's war against hamas terrorists. >> however, lord cameron stopped short of calling for an immediate ceasefire. >> his comments came a day after israel admitted it had mistakenly shot and killed three hostages, as they'd attempted to flee captivity here at home. labour has accused the government of sending the nhs into the colder months naked amid warnings of a winter crisis. the shadow health secretary told gb news that some of the funding problems facing the health system are due to excessive red tape. wes streeting promised that a labour government would work to make gps more accessible . gps more accessible. >> all i'm just trying to send a message to everyone that the pubuc message to everyone that the public finances are in a mess.

thanks to this shower of a government, money is going to be tight and we've got to make sure that every penny of taxpayers money is well spent. and the argument on the nhs can't just be more money, it has to be reform and modernisation. otherwise i fear that our nhs, as it has been for 75 years, a pubuc as it has been for 75 years, a public service free at the point of use, something i fundamentally believe in will be at risk. >> wes streeting now baroness michelle mone has admitted that she failed to reveal her links to a company that supplied ppe gowns to the nhs during the covid pandemic. >> the company , medpro, is >> the company, medpro, is currently being investigated by the national crime agency , while the national crime agency, while the national crime agency, while the department of health is taking action over a breach of contract act. she told the bbc that she made an error by not revealing her links to the company, which led to her husband's trust receiving around £60 million. but she insists that lying to the media wasn't a

crime . north korea has fired crime. north korea has fired what appears to be a ballistic missile, as it blamed the us for a show of force that was like a nuclear war. japan's coast guard has said. the rocket fell about 20 minutes after launch. officials in tokyo and seoul have warned that the nuclear armed rogue state has been preparing to fire one of its longest range missiles , all of longest range missiles, all of which are banned by the united nafions which are banned by the united nations and a couple have become one of the first same sex partnerships to receive a blessing in a church of england service. the prayers of love and faith , now allowed to be used in faith, now allowed to be used in general. services were given to catherine bond and jane pierce to celebrate their love. this morning , the house of bishops morning, the house of bishops sanctioned the blessings just days ago, but there's been no legislative change. it remains a voluntary decision for ministers and just lastly, wet weather is on the way in scotland . the met

on the way in scotland. the met office has issued an amber weather warning. we understand that means there could be danger to life in the north west. up to eight inches of rain was forecast for this weekend. more is on the way and experts are saying it's likely to cause travel disruption, floods and even landslides. people are being urged to take precautions , being urged to take precautions, avoid flood waters and when possible, to stay at home. that's the news on gb news across the uk on tv , in your across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play your smart speaker by saying play gb news this is britain's news channel . news channel. >> thank you polly . it's fast >> thank you polly. it's fast approaching six minutes after 4:00. this is gb news on tv, onune 4:00. this is gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua shamima begum . nana akua shamima begum. remember her? the 15 year old teenager who fled east london with two of her mates to syria to join isis, islamic state, eight years ago? we haven't

mentioned her for ages, but she could be coming to a place near you . as america mounts pressure you. as america mounts pressure on the uk to take back jihadi bndes on the uk to take back jihadi brides languishing in camps in syria. so sajid javid home secretary number four, i think. but don't quote me on that. i've lost count ages ago. well, since he removed her citizenship on national security grounds, she's been trying to get back here ever since she she argues that she was trafficked by isis , but she was trafficked by isis, but video footage of her appearing unrepentant during her time there and rumours that she was involved in tasks such as making suicide vests have not helped her case. >> there's evidence of her joining the hizb, which is a religious priest. that means that she would have controlled women's having their headscarves on. there's a possibility she sewed a suicide vest. i've sewed a suicide vest. now, i've been stadium where those been to the stadium where those vests were sewn on, and i've been to the stadium where those vests toere sewn on, and i've been to the stadium where those vests to refugee on, and i've been to the stadium where those vests to refugee campsd i've been to the stadium where those vests to refugee camps where the been to refugee camps where the effects of those suicide vests. and if she's guilty of that, no matter she groomed matter whether she was groomed or that. or she did that. >> so you've got to be careful on how well, is guilty

on how far well, she is guilty because she's tried in a because she's been tried in a court they've court of justice where they've proved evidence the proved the evidence, the evidence been presented and evidence has been presented and she's citizenship for it. >> so i'd say it.— >> so i'd say she's it. >> so i'd say she's guilty. well that was andrew drury. >> interviewed her whilst she >> he interviewed her whilst she was in a camp in syria. now, i don't about you , but why don't know about you, but why should should she in should we or why should she in fact be allowed return to fact be allowed to return to a country that she turned her back on join a terror group whose on to join a terror group whose cells have committed atrocities in the uk? why should needs in the uk? why should her needs trump of british trump the safety of british people me who love my people like me who love my country never think country and would never think of doing a thing, at doing such a thing, not even at age 15? >> and you were a really good kid at school. you were, you know, a really nice kid. yeah really quite educated, doing quite well . yeah. never got any quite well. yeah. never got any trouble. just quiet. then all of a sudden you get to the age of 13, 14, 15. they said that you were walking, wearing isis badges school. badges at school. >> was not remember the i'm >> i was not remember the i'm not a monster bbc podcast. >> she did a licence fee payers expense outrage . gorgeous. expense outrage. gorgeous. normal people like you or i

would be lucky to get a look in at the bbc for something of this nature. americans have taken back most of their citizens who fled their country in a similar shamima bagan fashion and prosecuted . them for giving prosecuted. them for giving material support to terrorism. they're putting pressure on other to do the same . other countries to do the same. france have already france and germany have already cracked and taken back some of their nationals , the argument their nationals, the argument being them there . there being leaving them there. there will further radicalised . will be further radicalised. director radicalisation of director of radicalisation of king's college, doctor shiraz maher said the us is known to have exerted pressure on the uk and european countries to repatriate and prosecute the citizens . their view is that we citizens. their view is that we are more than capable of managing the risk exposed by such individuals at home, really , we can't even control and manage criminals in this country. you see the problem with bringing her back to the uk is we, the taxpayer , will have is we, the taxpayer, will have to finance her round the clock security, and we have disproportionately high numbers of people like her. she's in

fact one of at least 20 protecting her and others like her, not only her from us, but also her from others will cost a fortune and who knows whether she's truly repentant . she's truly repentant. >> a message for me. for me to send back to people at home. >> what would it be? >> what would it be? >> i don't have any messages. >> i don't have any messages. >> giving >> i'm like tired of giving messages believed . messages and not being believed. >> what even to your own >> what to even to your own family? yeah, i if i give a message to my family, i want it to be face to face, not okay over the media. >> frankly, i don't .fancy living next door to her. do you . well next door to her. do you. well before we get stuck into the debate, here's what else is coming up today for the great british debate this hour. i'm asking, do you believe mass migration is being used as a weapon in italy? the prime minister's speech described an apocalyptic future for western societies do not get tough societies who do not get tough on . but do you agree on migration. but do you agree with him and do you believe that mass actually being mass migration is actually being used as a weapon? then stay

tuned. at 450 a worldview. i'll be talking about russia with chairman of the national jewish association, . plus association, paul mond. plus we'll to los angeles we'll cross live to los angeles with paul duddridge to get the latest on donald trump. stay tuned at five. it's my outside mystery guest. uh, there a surprise person. they're going to be talking about their life, their highs, lows and lessons learned. that's on the way their highs, lows and lessons learneoftenat's on the way their highs, lows and lessons learneoften as on the way their highs, lows and lessons learneoften as a n the way their highs, lows and lessons learneoften as a clues way their highs, lows and lessons learneoften as a clue .way their highs, lows and lessons learneoften as a clue . some there, often as a clue. some people know them as the salmon king. that's in the next hour. tell me what you think of everything discussing. tell me what you think of everyt gb; discussing. tell me what you think of everyt gb; digb ssing. tell me what you think of everyt gb; digb news. com email gb views at gb news. com or at . gb news. all or tweet me at. gb news. all right, let's get started. let's welcome again to my panel, broadcaster and journalist annie kelly and author kelly also broadcast and author christine hamilton . right. so i christine hamilton. right. so i don't know who to start with. danny's winked at me. it's got to be you, danny. it's gotta be you. >> that wink em. you. >> that wink to just try and >> that wink was to just try and illustrate to the viewers how beautiful look, but oh , beautiful you both look, but oh, you retrieved very you retrieved yourself very quickly . quickly. >> there, there. quickly. beautifully festive and festive

manner is radio. thank you very much. >> f- f— >> what do you want? >> what do you want? >> okay. you can pay her all the compliments you like i don't mind. problem at mind. do you know the problem at the moment with this country? >> like wouldn't >> is that like you, i wouldn't want door to want to live next door to shamima begum. are shamima begum. but there are lots would . and lots of people who would. and that's the problem. there are lots people who have lots of people who have have entrenched themselves in a society which direct society which is in direct conflict for all the values that i think that country, i think that this great country, the western europe, has to display. and that's problem . display. and that's the problem. i my concern is that she's i my only concern is that she's 24 or 25 years of age. she's in a syrian prison camp. so she potentially has got another 70 odd on this planet. we're odd years on this planet. we're not proposing that she lives the next 70 years until she dies in this syrian prison camp. and if you can just humour me with my hypothesis , i'm going to say 70 hypothesis, i'm going to say 70 years is very generous. >> 94. yeah. okay. >> that makes a 94. yeah. okay. >> that makes a 94. yeah. okay. >> was going say, mean, >> i was going to say, i mean, it's innings. i'm on my it's a good innings. i'm on my waybut you the pattern? i'm >> but you see the pattern? i'm trying develop. so let's just trying to develop. so let's just the years. yeah why the next 50, 60 years. yeah why should on the syrians should we put it on the syrians to, for her. when, when to, to pay for her. when, when she's a british citizen of

bangladeshi descent. bangladesh won't have her back. they've already and is already said this. and this is how cancelled her how they cancelled her citizenship. she has citizenship. because she has another country she go another country where she can go and bangladesh said, and live. so bangladesh said, whoa, what you going on whoa, what are you going on about? sajid javid? we don't want her either. she's one of many people who hate this country. believe country. i believe the journalist , country. i believe the journalist, but i don't like the way she was wearing western clothes and baseball caps. that was for television . i was purely for television. i think she's wrapped up in think she's still wrapped up in this media ideology. she hates the west , i'm convinced the west, and i'm not convinced she's repentant. >> you sort of have >> yeah, but you sort of have contradicted yourself in two ways. so saying ways. then. so are you saying that back that she should come back because said that because you initially said that we should be taking care of her, but listen, you but you said, listen, if you commit a crime in america, you will american jail. will go into an american jail. correct? should she correct? so why should she? she committed where she committed her crimes where she is, they probably want to is, and they probably want to punish her there. why should she come back here? >> she's a >> i think she's had a trial in syria. think actually. syria. i think she has actually. >> and and she said was >> and she and she said this was what? >> and she and she said this was wh.| ? know. but andrew >> i don't know. but andrew drury said that she's been sentenced drury said that she's been senand ad drury said that she's been senand that's why unless a >> and that's why unless it's a life meaning life sentence and life meaning life, that life, then obviously that sentence at some point is going to does go

to stop. and where does she go from there ? from there? >> i'm not worried about >> i'm not too worried about where she over there. all where she goes over there. all i'm about if i'm concerned about is if she doesn't back here, okay, doesn't come back here, okay, she was 15, but she has. she was only 15, but she has. she made her bed. she went off, she lay it. then when she she lay on it. she then when she became of consent, etc. became of age of consent, etc. etc, etc. she whether she did or she didn't, there's plenty of evidence . out there that she evidence. out there that she got, shall we say, thoroughly stuck in to the isis way of life. why should we take life. and why should we take the risk as you say, it would cost us a fortune if she's going to live till she's 94. that is going cost merry fortune going to cost us a merry fortune looking after her and protecting her people and her from other people and protecting other people , protecting other people, potentially from her. no, i'm sorry the rest of potentially from her. no, i'm sorrlife the rest of potentially from her. no, i'm sorrlife in the rest of potentially from her. no, i'm sorrlife in syria. the rest of potentially from her. no, i'm sorrlife in syria. that's. rest of potentially from her. no, i'm sorrlife in syria. that's. she of her life in syria. that's. she went there . that's tough. i went there. that's tough. i simply and also, why should the americans tell us what to do? i don't like that jolly well mind their own business. do you remember? >> well, the argument to them. and of course, they've had their own fair share of atrocities and things happening soil. own fair share of atrocities and th that happening soil. own fair share of atrocities and th that people ng soil. own fair share of atrocities and th that people will soil. own fair share of atrocities and th that people will be soil. is that people will be radicalised. those people who radicalised. so those people who are radicalised. are there will be radicalised. there children because there and their children because

some i some of them have children. i think children think there's about 50 children as well. >> i'm sorry, but we can't take everybody in this country who is in radicalised in danger of being radicalised abroad and, well, no, they'll be radicalised there. >> pose, a risk to us. >> us. >> not if we keep them out of this there are this country. but there are thousands of thousands already, maybe tens of thousands already, maybe tens of thousands who are thousands of people who are already security service >> the security service are stretched , but they have stretched thin, but they have people you category people like, you know, category a concern like shamima begum potentially would be. there are probably thousands in london, thousands in birmingham , thousands in birmingham, thousands in birmingham, thousands in birmingham, thousands in the north of england who put this ideology before our western values and the security services have got one more person to look after. and if you if you contextualise it, 20 of them, well, they've got another 20. you 20 to got another 20. so you add 20 to 1000. so maybe they are 1000. so, so maybe they are capable doing they're 1000. so, so maybe they are capabledoinging they're 1000. so, so maybe they are capable doing it. they're 1000. so, so maybe they are capable doing it. there'll're 1000. so, so maybe they are capable doing it. there'll be already doing it. there'll be people monitoring jihadis on the streets of london as we speak, but person every time but every person that every time they take somebody off the streets after that, that streets to mock after that, that that's, that's security taken away from us, the british public and we, we you've seen how the police force and security forces i >> -- >> it's just lam 5mm >> it's just not worth the risk.

and if she comes, she'll want to bnng and if she comes, she'll want to bring her, her, her children. i don't know how many she hasn't got any children. >> they all died. >> they all died. >> they all die. thought she >> they all die. i thought she had was still okay. had one. that was still okay. fine i apologise for that. then had one. that was still okay. fine but ologise for that. then had one. that was still okay. fine but it's;ise for that. then had one. that was still okay. fine but it's not for that. then had one. that was still okay. fine but it's not worth it. then had one. that was still okay. fine but it's not worth the hen had one. that was still okay. fine but it's not worth the risk . um. but it's not worth the risk. i don't think it's fair on the british to allow her british people to allow her to come just if you come back just in case. if you know, anything goes wrong . know, if anything goes wrong. >> well, almost as >> well, it seems almost as though literally do this and though we literally do this and then wait for something to go wrong if. wrong and say, hmm, what if. what about people who would what about some people who would argue been trafficked argue that she's been trafficked ? young. 15 is 15 ? she's very young. 15 is my 15 year wouldn't be that year old. wouldn't be that foolish. wouldn't it. foolish. i wouldn't allow it. but know, kind of did it but you know, she kind of did it under under wraps. people didn't see what she was doing. she went off two others. off with two others. >> it's not that young, is it? she clever enough get she was clever enough to get herself and herself out of the country and do all with her two mates, do all with with her two mates, who the sort who i think were the same sort of age. know, she's she's of age. you know, she's she's obviously stupid year of age. you know, she's she's obvi shel stupid year of age. you know, she's she's obvi she wasn't stupid year of age. you know, she's she's obvi she wasn't stupidin, year old. she wasn't taken in, you know, or anything. know, handcuffs or anything. she went will. went of her own free will. >> there is difference, if i >> there is a difference, if i may suggest , between another 15 may suggest, between another 15 year old and a 15 year old who's been brainwashed by. >> well, that's the point.

>> well, that's the point. >> that's the don't i make. >> that's the don't i make. >> the brainwashing involves an eternity, a life guarantee , need eternity, a life guarantee, need an eternity. once this life on earth finishes. so the difference between shamima begin at 15 and the difference between another kid at 15 that another kid at 15 is that the other kid at doesn't think other kid at 15 doesn't think that they they're that when they die, they're going to to heaven and spend going to go to heaven and spend eternity. know, got eternity. you know, they've got their common eternity. you know, they've got their they've common eternity. you know, they've got their they've got common eternity. you know, they've got their they've got the common eternity. you know, they've got their they've got the feet common sense, they've got the feet on the being the ground. these kids are being brainwashed by jihadis. well, that's the point. well, misinterpretation of islam and that's that's a reason for bringing because shouldn't. >> feeling sorry her. >> you're feeling sorry for her. and fault that she and it wasn't her fault that she went in the first place. she was brainwashed should brainwashed. and we should give her benefit the doubt and her the benefit of the doubt and have her back. >> argument >> that is an argument to bring her at her back here. and at some point, society, we point, british society, we have a system where if you can a prison system where if you can demonstrate that you've repented and a risk, and you're no longer a risk, then allowed out. the and you're no longer a risk, therit's allowed out. the and you're no longer a risk, therit's unlicensedad out. the and you're no longer a risk, therit's unlicensed and it. the and you're no longer a risk, therit's unlicensed and jt.you:he uk, it's unlicensed and if you breach go back breach that licence, you go back into prison now, can't into prison. now, why can't we apply rules this apply the same rules to this woman who's 24? she says woman who's now 24? she says she's whether she's repented whether whether i agree with her or not, we could bnng agree with her or not, we could bring her maybe put her bring her back maybe and put her in a uk law. in a in a uk law. >> but we need to find that guilty as well . the other thing guilty as well. the other thing is actually find her

is you need to actually find her guilty so you'll have guilty of crimes. so you'll have to all the investigating and guilty of crimes. so you'll have to thatl the investigating and guilty of crimes. so you'll have to that kind investigating and guilty of crimes. so you'll have to that kind of/estigating and guilty of crimes. so you'll have to that kind of/estig.as|g and guilty of crimes. so you'll have to that kind of/estig.as well.i all that kind of thing as well. so actually not be so she might actually not be found but found guilty of anything, but she's guilty . yeah. she's been found guilty. yeah. but she's point if she's she's been found guilty. yeah. but found she's point if she's she's been found guilty. yeah. but found guilty; point if she's she's been found guilty. yeah. but found guilty of)int if she's she's been found guilty. yeah. but found guilty of anything,'s not found guilty of anything, then amount of then the police, the amount of protection will be protection she'll need will be very. be difficult . very. it will be difficult. >> this argument, >> but there is this argument, as that she should >> but there is this argument, as back that she should >> but there is this argument, as back here :hat she should >> but there is this argument, as back here and she should >> but there is this argument, as back here and facehould >> but there is this argument, as back here and face british come back here and face british justice. british justice, justice. and if british justice, in have a fair in which i still have a fair degree of faith, despite a few , degree of faith, despite a few, let's leave it at that. the british justice , if they decide british justice, if they decide that she is innocent, then fine . that she is innocent, then fine. but if they don't, then what do we do with her? do we stick her in prison? do we send her back to syria? well, that's just just not risk. to syria? well, that's just just not i risk. to syria? well, that's just just not! think risk. to syria? well, that's just just not! think that'sk. the >> i think that's what the problem faces british problem is, is she faces british justice. she'll be out on justice. then she'll be out on the no time. the streets in no time. yes, exactly. ain't got any room in the anyway. what the prisons anyway. well, what do you think is fast approaching 17 after 4:00? this is 17 minutes after 4:00? this is gb how would 17 minutes after 4:00? this is gb like how would 17 minutes after 4:00? this is gb like win how would 17 minutes after 4:00? this is gb like win £10,0000w would 17 minutes after 4:00? this is gb like win £10,000 cash )uld 17 minutes after 4:00? this is gb like win £10,000 cash ord you like to win £10,000 cash or brand? new tech. and also brand? brand new tech. and also shopping vouchers. well, you could be the winner our very could be the winner of our very first giveaway first great british giveaway here are the details as to how you make that you could make all of that yours. this is your chance to

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slash win. good luck. >> that look good to you? well stay tuned. get in touch. do what you've got to do. but up next it's time for the great british debate this hour. and i'm believe i'm asking, do you believe mass migration is being used as a weapon? i've got pull right weapon? i've got a pull up right now x asking you now on twitter on x asking you that very question. do you believe being believe mass migration is being used ? cast your used as a weapon? cast your vote. now you can send me your thoughts news. thoughts gb views at gb news. com or tweet at .

with me, michael portillo , gb with me, michael portillo, gb news. britain's news channel .

news. britain's news channel. >> it starts approaching 23 minutes after 4:00. this is gb news we are the people's channel. don't forget as well you can download the gb news app and you can check out all the shows live . i'm nana akua and shows live. i'm nana akua and it's shows live. i'm nana akua and wsfime shows live. i'm nana akua and it's time for great it's time now for the great british this hour. and british debate. this hour. and i'm do you believe that i'm asking, do you believe that mass migration is being used as a weapon ? hostile states will a weapon? hostile states will use migration as a weapon to destabilise the west . well, that destabilise the west. well, that is according to our prime minister rishi sunak, speaking in italy yesterday, he warned that western societies face being overwhelmed by growing numbers as our enemies use waves of illegal immigration to weaken britain . to avoid this fate , britain. to avoid this fate, rishi sunak and leaders must be ready to crack down on illegal migration and revamp our asylum laws. what do you think? so, for the great british debate this hour, the great british debate this hour , i'm asking, do you hour, i'm asking, do you actually believe, though, that mass fact being mass migration is in fact being used in this well, joining used in this way? well, joining me to discuss suzanne evans,

me now to discuss suzanne evans, political commentator, stephen pound, former labour mp conor tomlinson, writer and commentator stadlen, commentator matthew stadlen, political commentator. i'm going commentator matthew stadlen, po startl commentator. i'm going commentator matthew stadlen, po start with|mentator. i'm going commentator matthew stadlen, po start with you, tator. i'm going commentator matthew stadlen, po start with you, conor.�*m going commentator matthew stadlen, po start with you, conor. what ng to start with you, conor. what are thoughts this ? are your thoughts on this? conon are your thoughts on this? conor, we're starting with you . conor, we're starting with you. conor, we're starting with you. conoris conor, we're starting with you. conor is he frozen that cold? conon conor is he frozen that cold? conor, can you hear me ? okay, conor, can you hear me? okay, let me let me go with i'm going to start with suzanne because she's nice and close next to me. go on. >> suzanne, i don't think there's any debate about this, really. we've from really. we've known from as early 2015 people are early as 2015 that people are coming are coming coming over. jihadis are coming overin coming over. jihadis are coming over in boats. um, nigel farage warned about this at that time, i remember, and he was slammed down for it. but at the same time, we now know that government advisers were here. yeah, exactly. the same thing. uh, i think i find uh, what i think i find astonishing about this , these astonishing about this, these comments by rishi sunak is that he's italy. why he's made them in italy. why can't say them in his own can't he say them in his own country? is that because he fired home secretary fired his last home secretary who actually had the guts to say this invasion? and that, who actually had the guts to say thicourse, invasion? and that,

who actually had the guts to say thicourse, waslasion? and that, who actually had the guts to say thicourse, was suella and that, who actually had the guts to say thicourse, was suella braverman hmm. >> it's interesting you point you make because there are plenty of people on the left, you make because there are ple|pickingaople on the left, you make because there are ple|picking uple on the left, you make because there are ple|picking up then the left, you make because there are ple|picking up the language of uh, picking up the language of the word invasion when if you look lampedusa, look at places like lampedusa, i think exactly what you'd think that's exactly what you'd describe it as. matthew stadlen . describe it as. matthew stadlen. >> stuff makes me >> now, this stuff makes me really angry. >> but also frustrated. >> but also frustrated. >> the person who is weaponizing immigration is our own . prime minister. >> he's cosying up to the populist, far right prime minister meloni in italy . and he minister meloni in italy. and he is creating these doomsday scenarios for our democracy at the same time as having done absolutely nothing to drive down the numbers and to achieve the goals set by his own government . goals set by his own government. i mean, it was at the beginning of this year that he said he was going to end vote, end the going to end the vote, end the boats. he's going to going to end the vote, end the boatthe he's going to going to end the vote, end the boatthe votes he's going to going to end the vote, end the boatthe votes for1e's going to going to end the vote, end the boatthe votes for the going to going to end the vote, end the boatthe votes for the tories to going to end the vote, end the boatthe votes for the tories as end the votes for the tories as well. course, he was going to well. of course, he was going to end boats this it's end the boats this year. it's december now and he's boasting that down by a that he's brought them down by a third. is a he is he is a third. he is a he is he is a prime minister without vision . prime minister without a vision. he's without he's a prime minister without substance. and he is a prime

minister of a failing governing party. >> but, matthew, there are many , >> but, matthew, there are many, you know, so, for example, the finnish , they complained that finnish, they complained that russia were sending swathes of people who have come across , uh, people who have come across, uh, from african countries into their country to kind of flood their country to kind of flood the system there. he's not alone in making this suggestion, is he? well . what he seems to be he? well. what he seems to be doing is projecting that claim by the finish onto us, and i'm yet to see any evidence of that. >> there are certainly people who do want to come to this country, and is certainly country, and it is certainly true. get a grip on true. we have to get a grip on the but prime the boats. but this prime minister is failing to do that. at the time as sowing the at the same time as sowing the seeds of fear he be seeds of fear where he should be showing right . showing leadership right. >> well, conor tomlinson, what do ? do you think? >> holac nana glad the audio is working now. >> yeah, i'm confused as why >> yeah, i'm confused as to why matthew pejorative far matthew puts the pejorative far right also, which i'm sure he can't really define in the same sentence populist, which sentence as populist, which just means by the people means elected by the people because one chief because the number one chief concern peoples in the uk and

concern of peoples in the uk and across europe is mass migration, because it's changing the character of their communities. it's so that all of it's meaning so that all of their public are their public services are stretched thin they stretched so thin that they can't and so can't access them. and so the question, being used as a w eapon? weapon? >> we have to ask. well, by who i mean, in the daily express a couple ago, was couple of weeks ago, there was a report that four terrorists had snuck into the in the snuck into the country in the home frantically home office, were frantically looking them. looking for them. >> in those 17,000. >> maybe it was in those 17,000. >> maybe it was in those 17,000. >> just can't quite place, >> they just can't quite place, but it has been used at the expense british public as expense of the british public as a by both political a weapon by both political parties to each other. i mean, we nether, we remember andrew nether, speechwriter blair, who once speechwriter for blair, who once said deliberate policy said that the deliberate policy of mass immigration under the labour government was to rob the rights nos and diversity and render arguments render their arguments out of date. you look the date. and if you look at the current conservative government, it's scaffolding it's not only just scaffolding for a dilapidated economic system keep increasing the system to keep increasing the population system to keep increasing the popsortion system to keep increasing the popso low, to increase gdp to are so low, to increase gdp to make it look like they haven't trashed economy . but it's trashed the economy. but it's also back in 2014 when working at policy exchange sunak at policy exchange rishi sunak wrote a really interesting paper called modern called a portrait of modern britain, noted that, for

britain, and he noted that, for example, indians who as of last yean example, indians who as of last year, came the year, 250,000 came into the country voted conservative at ten percentage points higher than any other black and minority group, and at minority ethnic group, and at the time he was interviewed by al jazeera and the front page of the that this the paper notes that this distinction apparent in distinction was was apparent in the he well, the polls. and he said, well, i think pay think politicians should pay attention demographic attention to this demographic data down. so data we've noted down. so i think, frankly, both parties are looking to import a clientele class that is hoping to fudge the numbers in favour at the numbers in their favour at the numbers in their favour at the election. the next election. >> interesting take on the next election. >>interesting. 1teresting take on the next election. >>interesting. suzanne| take on the next election. >>interesting. suzanne evanson it. interesting. suzanne evans yeah, i think i think that's right. >> um, you know, the point is these migrants coming in on boats , we don't know where boats, we don't know where they're coming from. we don't know what their agenda is. they're their they're coming in in their droves. what it, 230, 292 droves. so what was it, 230, 292 just on friday? in any other circumstance that would be classified as an invasion , even classified as an invasion, even if 292 unknown people landed on our shores. i it's just astonishing. frankly . that and

astonishing. frankly. that and what matthew was talking about, uh, saying that it's been used as a as a weapon against migrants . as a as a weapon against migrants. i'm as a as a weapon against migrants . i'm sorry. as a as a weapon against migrants. i'm sorry. is migrants. i'm sorry. that is just true. what bit? just simply not true. what bit? matthew, understand matthew, do you not understand about the fact that islamic state themselves have said they are to use boats to are going to use these boats to bnng are going to use these boats to bring into this bring people into this country to our our system and to weaken our our system and declare on us? declare war on us? >> well, you can answer that . >> well, you can answer that. >> well, you can answer that. >> i find what suzanne is saying truly remarkable. the idea that we are being invaded by people and that we are ourselves with our brave lifeguard guards and coast guards, actually on, on the lifeboats, actually picking them up and saying, we're going to bring you safely as we should be this country so you don't to bring you safely as we should be tat; country so you don't to bring you safely as we should be tat sea. ntry so you don't to bring you safely as we should be tat sea. the so you don't to bring you safely as we should be tat sea. the idea>u don't to bring you safely as we should be tat sea. the idea that n't to bring you safely as we should be tat sea. the idea that that drown at sea. the idea that that is is just insult is an invasion is just an insult to everybody's common sense, who's this channel today. >> so i notice he's not answering my question . isis, the answering my question. isis, the question this , they said question about this, they said they would do it. what makes you not believe them? matthew i'll answer your question about isis. >> if you remember earlier in this conversation, said that >> if you remember earlier in thisgovernment1, said that >> if you remember earlier in thisgovernment does|id that >> if you remember earlier in thisgovernment does needat >> if you remember earlier in thisgovernment does need to get the government does need to get a grip on the boats and is failing do need to

failing to do so. we do need to know coming into this know who's coming into this country do pick country and when we do pick people the boats and people up on the boats and rescue them from those dangerous waters in the channel, we waters in the channel, what we should be doing and what we have been doing up until now is treating humanely and treating them humanely and processing them properly. unfortunately nobody's nobody's saying don't know. saying you don't know. >> no no no. nobody's >> no, no no no no. nobody's saying you don't treat them humanely. we what suzanne is alluding that isis said that alluding to that isis said that they would do this . and what they would do this. and what makes they are makes you think that they are not telling the truth? that's what saying . she's not what she's saying. she's not talking not rescuing talking about not rescuing people . people. >> i don't let me answer the question. doubt for question. i don't doubt for a second would to second that isis would like to do this panel, and do all of us on this panel, and everyone in this country extreme harm. they're death harm. they're an evil death cult. we need to be doing cult. what we need to be doing is grip on our is getting a grip on our borders. that doesn't mean borders. but that doesn't mean throwing our british values throwing away our british values in process . and in the process. and i will remind i'll remind remind suzanne, i'll remind everyone it is sunak who everyone that it is sunak who said he was going to stop the boats year and he's now boats this year and he's now boasting he's stopped boats this year and he's now bo.ating he's stopped boats this year and he's now bo.a third. he's stopped by a third. >> they say they're going to >> they all say they're going to stop none them stop the boats. none of them have uh, stephen pound have done it. uh, stephen pound but we've been here but no, no, we've been here

before, we? before, haven't we? >> sense of deja >> it's a dreadful sense of deja vu again. is vu all over again. this is margaret talk margaret thatcher with her talk about swamped, was about being swamped, which was alarmist about being swamped, which was alarquestion actually you talked the question actually you talked about were the were about were the states were encouraging migrations to encouraging mass migrations to destabilise and destabilise another state. and i think it's interesting that rishi sunak is with giorgia meloni in italy the moment. meloni in italy at the moment. the italians, faced with what's happening in lampedusa, have actually processing actually created processing centres in albania . so they're centres in albania. so they're actually dealing with this issue . where it should be dealt with at the source. but look, the reality is, if you honestly think that anybody in . some think that anybody in. some state that does wishes us harm is importing thousands, if not millions of people from central africa and moving them halfway across the world, and then telling come across telling them to come across it. rubbish. honestly think rubbish. you're honestly think anybody is anybody in, say, russia is actually going to say to people in across saint in togo, stroll across the saint petersburg, cross the border, walk the walk for six months through the hellish end up hellish conditions and end up drowning and it's drowning in the channel and it's for for good. for the good, for our good. why would do that? for the good, for our good. why wotbecause do that? for the good, for our good. why wotbecause they at? for the good, for our good. why wotbecause they wouldn't tell >> because they wouldn't tell them the drowning bit, them about the drowning bit, would they? they that would they? they would say that you and get to england you come over and get to england from , they wouldn't from africa, they wouldn't be safe europe.

from africa, they wouldn't be safe ithen e. from africa, they wouldn't be safe ithen back here. i'm >> and then back here. i'm sorry. for the birds. >> and then back here. i'm sor|well, for the birds. >> and then back here. i'm sor|well, youor the birds. >> and then back here. i'm sor|well, you say1e birds. >> and then back here. i'm sor|well, you say that'sis. >> and then back here. i'm sor|well, you say that's for the >> well, you say that's for the birds, finnish birds, but even the finnish accused doing accused the russians of doing something know, something similar. so, you know, people that people are looking at that internally the russian internally within the russian federation, don't forget. >> similar >> but but it's still a similar tactic, isn't it. >> tactic of actually >> the tactic of actually bringing taking bringing people and taking them across something across appears to be something that be being weaponized. that may be being weaponized. but thank you so much but anyway, thank you so much to, uh, my, uh, control . tutors. to, uh, my, uh, control. tutors. suzanne evans, political commentator stephen pound, former labour mp conor tomlinson, writer and commentator. and matthew staton , commentator. and matthew staton, political commentator. what do you think mass you think? do you think mass migration used as a migration is being used as a weapon? i guess it's true to ask by whom? uh, but i'm saying by other . you're with other states. uh, you're with me. this is gb me. i'm nana akua. this is gb news online and on news on tv, online and on digital continue digital radio. we'll continue with debate. with the great british debate. i'll question. i'll be asking that question. is mass being as mass migration being used as a weapon? you'll hear the weapon? you'll be. hear the thoughts of my panel. christine and danny . thoughts of my panel. christine and danny. but thoughts of my panel. christine and danny . but first, let's get and danny. but first, let's get your latest news headlines with polly. >> the top stories this hour. the home office insists it does have robust plans for flights to

rwanda, following reports that some airlines are refusing to take part in the government's asylum policy. it comes as tory mp mark francois, who led a rebellion against the policy, says plans are in place for some amendments to the bill in the new year . amendments to the bill in the new year. there's been growing pressure on israel with lord david cameron joining germany's foreign affairs minister in calling for a . ceasefire in calling for a. ceasefire in gaza. in a joint article for the sunday times, the foreign secretary warns that too many civilians have been killed and it's for a sustainable it's time for a sustainable ceasefire. the intervention marks . a significant shift in marks. a significant shift in the government's tone on israel's war against hamas terrorists. but lord cameron stopped short of calling for an immediate ceasefire, and labour has accused the government of sending the nhs into the colder months. now naked amid warnings of a winter crisis . the shadow of a winter crisis. the shadow health secretary telling gb news that some of the funding problems facing the health system are due to excessive red

tape , and he promised labour tape, and he promised labour would work to make gps more accessible. while baroness michelle mone has admitted she failed to reveal her links to a company that supplied ppe gowns to the nhs during the pandemic. medpro is currently being investigated by the national crime agency. the department of health is taking action over a breach of contract . she told the breach of contract. she told the bbc that she made an error by not revealing her links to the company, which led to her husband's trust receiving around £60 million as tom lockyer remains in hospital this afternoon after suffering a cardiac arrest during a football game yesterday . the luton town game yesterday. the luton town captain is in a stable condition. we're told he is undergoing tests and scans as the second half of yesterday's premier league match in bournemouth was abandoned after he collapsed on the field. the 29 year old was unresponsive before being taken to hospital . before being taken to hospital. that's the headlines. more on all those stories by heading to our website, gbnews.com .

want to keep you entertained. >> the camilla tominey show sunday mornings from 930 on gb news . news is. >> hello. welcome back. it's fast approaching 39 minutes after 4:00. this is a gb news. i'm nana akua. if you've just tuned in. where have you been? so that's fine. it's good. you've got time, right ? so you've still got time, right? so it's for the great british it's time for the great british debate hour. but before i

debate this hour. but before i do i'm to read do that, i'm going to just read some messages that we've some of the messages that we've got fan some of the messages that we've got far. um, this one is got so far. um, this one is earlier talking about got so far. um, this one is earlier and talking about got so far. um, this one is earlier and transalking about got so far. um, this one is earlier and trans andg about got so far. um, this one is earlier and trans and michael in gender and trans and michael in london you are london says, i believe you are the sex organs the gender of your sex organs and everything is an and everything else is an aberration should not be aberration and should not be encouraged by teachers and social workers . leo on social workers. leo on blessings, says , i have, for the blessings, says, i have, for the first time in my life, agreed. i agree with stephen. no single sex marriage in churches and then on trans. my then another one on trans. my six year old. this is from avril , my six year old grandson says he wants to be a girl and someone in his class is. he wants to be a girl and someone in his class is . we had someone in his class is. we had a about it and he a discussion about it and he said , i don't want to be a girl. said, i don't want to be a girl. he's totally confused. exactly. that's the thing , isn't it? keep that's the thing, isn't it? keep your thoughts coming. gb views that gb we're talking that gb news. com we're talking mass now and it's time mass migration now and it's time for great british debate for the great british debate this asking, this hour. i'm asking, do you believe mass migration been believe mass migration has been used weapon ? hostile states used as a weapon? hostile states apparently as used as a weapon? hostile states a|weaponr as used as a weapon? hostile states a|weapon to as used as a weapon? hostile states a|weapon to destabilise as used as a weapon? hostile states a|weapon to destabilise the as a weapon to destabilise the west. now that is to according our prime minister, rishi sunak. speaking in italy yesterday , speaking in italy yesterday, rishi warned that western society face being overwhelmed

by growing numbers as our enemies use waves of illegal immigration to weaken britain. now to avoid this fate, sunak says that leaders must be ready to crack down on illegal migration and revamp asylum laws so that the great british debate this i'm do you this hour i'm asking, do you believe is believe that mass migration is actually being used as a weapon? well, what my panel well, let's see what my panel make of that. i'm joined by broadcaster and journalist danny kelly broadcaster kelly and also broadcaster and author christina hamilton. i'm going to with going to start with you, christine . christine. >> yes. and if only rishi sunak had wake and had rishi sunak had woken up a bit sooner to the perils that we face because of mass migration, and some of your panellists earlier mentioned this belarus and this business about belarus and the polish border. i mean, that was putin deliberately picking up refugees from places like syria who had gone to, to, to russia and say, well, we don't want them plonk them on into belarus. right on the border with poland, which was a psychological ploy to try and destroy allies. poland, which is a country . so of course

a nato country. so of course it's going to happen. and i mean, just look at the figures. 1 in 30 people in this world, 1 in 30, that's a lot . are in 30, that's a lot. are migrants. there are 280 million migrants. there are 280 million migrants internationally . that migrants internationally. that is 180 million more than they were only in 2020. that's in three years. it's gone up . from three years. it's gone up. from 128 million to 280 million. and thatis 128 million to 280 million. and that is three times what they were in 1970. so yes, the world is on the move and there are millions and millions of people for obvious reasons, who want to better themselves , want a better better themselves, want a better life, and obviously places like the uk and the us and european countries are massive magnet. you can't blame these people, but we can't take everybody and undoubtedly evil people like isis as types etc. will try and destabilise these countries . destabilise these countries. they would like it, no, like nothing better than to have goodness knows how many do you think there there people in this country? but do you think destabilising things , creating destabilising things, creating terror? christine. >> disorders do you think

>> eating disorders do you think they're coordinated they're that coordinated though? they're they're they're not, are they? they're like of different like little cells of different groups all sorts groups that are doing all sorts of things. danny kelly oh, i got sorry. i got it. >> no, no, you're right to highlight who is using it as a weapon that's weapon as well because that's the rishi the great unknown. and rishi sunak rishi sunak sunak the irony of rishi sunak sacking using one sacking braverman for using one type of language. he flies to off uses an identical off italy and uses an identical type it's type of language. yet it's permissible rishi sunak. permissible for rishi sunak. before used mass before putin used mass immigration as a weapon in 2010, colonel gaddafi remember colonel gaddafi? i remember who used to lead a tribal form of politics. and that was before the middle eastern uprisings, which started in tunisia, when all the great and the good of the european union, including david cameron at time, thought a at the time, thought that a western would western type of democracy would work what what once work in what in what was once a tribal form of democracy. look what's happened, colonel gaddafi was the european union was bribing the european union back in 2010. you give me ,5 billion and i will stem the flow of african migrants. but. but so that was used as a weapon back in 2000. >> but that's sort of happening

with turkey on the border of turkey. isn't that right? the european deal with european union have a deal with turkey not allow turkey to sort of not allow people to come across. so trying to in rather clumsy way to get to in a rather clumsy way is that you have people who are very sympathetic to mass, unfettered illegal immigration by saying they're fleeing war zones. >> there were no war zones back in 2010. so colonel gaddafi was stemming the flow of africans. he actually went to say that, you know, europe will be overrun . i'm paraphrasing by by african culture and do and i'm quoting directly , do white christian directly, do white christian europeans want that? that was back in 2010. there were there were no wars at the time. so people were economic migrants as mostly they are today, today. >> and yet there are certain countries who refuse countries in europe who refuse to have i think poland is to have them. i think poland is one. the european union are one. and the european union are trying make everybody take. trying to make everybody take. they us to take certain they wanted us to take certain amount, etc. some countries amount, etc, etc. some countries are rising up and saying no, we're . sovereign states, we're we're. sovereign states, we're not having it. well, it doesn't we schengen zone does it? >> we just just allow them to flood across as well. the flood across as well. well, the schengen flood across as well. well, the

sc! because they can go all because they can go absolutely anywhere completely all because they can go absolutely .but/here completely all because they can go absolutely .but this! completely all because they can go absolutely .but this show)letely all because they can go absolutely .but this show istely unchecked. but this show is nothing you and your nothing without you and your views. a great views. let's welcome a great british voice. is there opportunity the show opportunity to be on the show and us what they think and tell us what they think about the topics we're discussing? should we go? discussing? where should we go? oh, the map, i it, oh, we got the map, i love it, it's great. go to it's great. let's go to northamptonshire to northamptonshire and speak to miranda the miranda richardson, not the miranda richardson, but miranda. >> richardson. >> miranda, you think? >> miranda, what do you think? miranda do you think it's being used? good afternoon. is it a weapon ? weapon? >> do you know what i think? >> do you know what i think? >> i think it's one of those things danny touched on kind of libya turkey and the sudan. libya and turkey and the sudan. >> what happened there, >> and what happened there, where they leveraged their , uh, where they leveraged their, uh, you know, promised, um, compromise help and, uh, compromise to help and, uh, senegal, i think , did it with senegal, i think, did it with spain's money as well . you know, spain's money as well. you know, i think it's one of these things that who i think danny said as well, who is gaining from it. we've got absolutely no idea who is gaining any of this , is gaining from any of this, because one party, you know . because one party, you know. will say that we must stop it and there's too many coming in. and then we're bringing, um, aspects of migrants in, for

aspects of migrants in, um, for work and for prosperity and to help us grow and continue to grow and then we go back to the fight again. oh, there's too many coming in. it'sjust many coming in. it's just non—stop. and again, more nonsense. know , we've nonsense. and, you know, we've got the war on drugs, we've got the on on arms. now we've the war on on arms. now we've got the on migrants. but, got the war on migrants. but, you they just you know, when do they just going waking up going to start waking up like christine said, up and christine said, waking up and start things and looking start doing things and looking at it in a proper way that people want answers to , want people want answers to, want support from and want, you know, want ideas to actually see it instead of just using for instead of just using it for that economic that whole economic and political because political gain. because that doesn't us. doesn't help any of us. >> well, hasn't helped , has >> well, it hasn't helped, has it, though it, really? even though apparently they start apparently when they start working, putting working, they start putting taxes and they become good taxes in and they become good people and people like you, me and everybody else. and that's great. it needs more great. but i think it needs more control. miranda richardson , control. miranda richardson, thank she's our thank you very much. she's our great british voice. what do you think, gb views that gbnews.com is migration as think, gb views that gbnews.com isweapon?gration as think, gb views that gbnews.com isweapon? i'mion as think, gb views that gbnews.com isweapon? i'mion akua as think, gb views that gbnews.com isweapon? i'mion akua . as think, gb views that gbnews.com isweapon? i'mion akua . this is a weapon? i'm nana akua. this is gb news. we're live on tv, onune gb news. we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. coming up at five. i'll be joined by a surprise guest to talk about their life and highs

and lows, lessons learned and what next. the outside, what comes next. on the outside, he's big in politics as he's a big fish in politics as a clue and a fourth generation owner of a family run business in the uk . can you guess who he in the uk. can you guess who he might be? he's on the way out after five, but up next it's world view with gary monde and paul duddridge. let's get some weather paul duddridge. let's get some weatibrighter outlook with boxt >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello there . good evening. >> hello there. good evening. i'm jonathan vautrey here with your gb news weather forecast provided by the met office. there is plenty weather to provided by the met office. thereus plenty weather to provided by the met office. there us occupied weather to provided by the met office. thereus occupied wea the to provided by the met office. thereus occupied wea the course provided by the met office. ththiss occupied wea the course provided by the met office. ththis coming ed wea the course provided by the met office. ththis coming week, athe course provided by the met office. ththis coming week, a thethatrse of this coming week, and that starts off even on sunday evening and this of evening and night. this band of rain across rain spreading its way across parts northern ireland, parts of northern ireland, northern southwest northern england, southwest scotland, even into parts of wales, well . the southeastern wales, as well. the southeastern areas england will hold to on areas of england will hold to on areas of england will hold to on a few clearer spells, and also in the northwest of scotland, will spells will see some clear spells overnight allow overnight that will allow temperatures down temperatures to drop off down into single figures also. into mid single figures also. but stuck but where you are stuck underneath and underneath all that cloud and rain night. rain will be another mild night.

not much lower than 10 to not seeing much lower than 10 to 12 c. that rain will slowly push its way southwards as we head throughout the day, so there will be some early brightness in the but cloud the southeast, but the cloud will up its way the southeast, but the cloud wi here up its way the southeast, but the cloud wi here and up its way the southeast, but the cloud wi here and into up its way the southeast, but the cloud wi here and into the up its way the southeast, but the cloud wi here and into the afternoon. in here and into the afternoon. it's going to parts it's going to be parts of northern ireland, into central areas that to northern ireland, into central areethe that to northern ireland, into central areethe poke that to northern ireland, into central areethe poke itsat to northern ireland, into central areethe poke itsat “and northern ireland, into central areiwinds poke itsat “and northern ireland, into central areiwinds poalsosat “and northern ireland, into central areiwinds poalso be “and northern ireland, into central areiwinds poalso be easing nd the winds will also be easing out in the north, but still quite blustery for england and wales generally, wales once again. generally, temperatures wales once again. generally, temtime ures wales once again. generally, temtime ofes wales once again. generally, temtime of year between 10 and the time of year between 10 and 13 c on tuesday. our the time of year between 10 and 13 c on tuesday . our attention 13 c on tuesday. our attention to this next area of frontal systems that are going to push their way in from the southwest, so it's looking like wales and england bear england that are going to bear the the rainfall on the brunt of the rainfall on tuesday very wet rush the brunt of the rainfall on tues

looks like things are heating up boxt as sponsors of boxt boilers as sponsors of weather on gb news . weather on gb news. >> hello, thank you for being a big part of gb news. >> we'd like to wish you and your loved ones a christmas season full of comfort and joy, as well as a peaceful and prosperous new year from our family to yours, we are proud to be your channel. >> merry christmas , happy >> merry christmas, happy christmas, merry christmas, happy christmas , merry happy christmas, merry christmas, merry christmas , christmas, merry christmas, merry christmas here on gb news the people's channel. >> merry christmas

i >> -- >> hello. good afternoon . 52 >> hello. good afternoon. 52 minutes after 4:00. this is gb news we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua. and on digital radio. i'm nana akua . don't forget as well, you akua. don't forget as well, you can stream everything live on youtube. it's time now for world view and joining me to talk about the war between israel and hamas is the chairman of the national jewish assembly, gary mond. gary. the big thing mond. gary. so the big thing that have talking that people have been talking about is obviously the hostage situation the fact that situation and the fact that three israeli hostages were killed, despite the fact that they were waving white flags and appeared unarmed. >> well, this is an admittedly dated tragedy. and i'm sure it will be investigated fully in due course. what i would say is that.

due course. what i would say is that . the israeli government that. the israeli government needs to carry on with its plans to wipe out hamas, and it should not deviated from those plans not be deviated from those plans by tragic events that have just happened on the one hand, and also by international forces trying to persuade . them to have trying to persuade. them to have a ceasefire on the other, it must be for the israeli government to determine what is in of israel, in the best interests of israel, what best interests of what is in the best interests of israel, believe. they israel, i believe. and they believe, eradicating hamas completely. >> but . in completely. >> but. in doing so, um, you you are, i mean, not you obviously directly, but the israeli army are killing many people in gaza, directly, but the israeli army are ia.ling many people in gaza, directly, but the israeli army are ia lot; many people in gaza, directly, but the israeli army are ia lot of1any people in gaza, directly, but the israeli army are ia lot of people ople in gaza, directly, but the israeli army are ia lot of people are in gaza, directly, but the israeli army are ia lot of people are saying a, and a lot of people are saying now that that is disproportionate to what happened on october 7. disproportionate to what hapthised on october 7. disproportionate to what hapthis ison october 7. disproportionate to what hapthis is al october 7. disproportionate to what hapthis is a war.)ber 7. disproportionate to what hapthis is a war. and 7. disproportionate to what hapthis is a war. and in a war >> this is a war. and in a war and tragically, in a war, civilians get killed. what happened on october 7th was a massacre of unbelievable proportions. biggest ever proportions. the biggest ever extermination of jews since the holocaust . it was just literally holocaust. it was just literally unprecedented . and israel had to unprecedented. and israel had to go to war. it has gone to war. and in a war, just as was the case in the second world war,

when large numbers of german civilians were killed by british bombing. it will be the case bombing. so it will be the case here. there's nothing for it. you either have your objectives to win the war or you don't. and the israeli government does have that the israeli government does have tha but in doing the >> but in doing that and the objectives that you have, and it's understandable . i'm it's totally understandable. i'm not that i fall for not saying that i fall for either side, but i am either side, but what i am saying that there will. are saying is that there will. are you not concerned that you are losing the will and backing of the international community, who initially supported israel? i think what matters most of all is the will of the israeli government and the will of people in israel support the people in israel to support the israeli government in what they're doing. >> fundamental and >> that is most fundamental and most . most important. the. international community would be helpful if they were more supportive and allow benjamin netanyahu government to netanyahu and his government to finish job. finish the job. >> where do you see this ending? when say finish the job, when you say finish the job, what to you? what does that look like to you? >> surrendering completely >> hamas surrendering completely or being eliminated completely ? or being eliminated completely? i also see when they are. i also see no when they are. that's that's not that's not that's not a judgement i can call. that's a judgement i can call. that's a judgement that the israeli army

can call. but what you ask me, how will this finished? think how will this finished? i think that of where that some form of plan where gazais that some form of plan where gaza is divided up among major powers , uh, to ensure that we powers, uh, to ensure that we have the next generations of gazans are not educated to hate jews . uh, mr netanyahu gazans are not educated to hate jews. uh, mr netanyahu said a couple of days ago that he wants to see gaza demilitarised . and i to see gaza demilitarised. and i think that's the first step. the second step will be to work out how to run the gaza and to ensure we don't have further large numbers of young gazans essentially indoctrinated to hate jews and israelis. that's what matters. >> some people have used the word genocide with regard to the bombardment in israel . some bombardment in israel. some people have used that phrase , people have used that phrase, um, gaza was a very small strip . um, gaza was a very small strip. where will the gazans go? just you know, because they've said you know, because they've said you can't they said that you had to move down to the south or was it the north or one side? and now whole appears now the whole thing appears to be would say people use the >> i would say people use the word genocide, don't actually know word means. know what the word means. genocide is an intention to wipe out an entire population, entire

race, like we saw during the second world war and the policies of hitler and the nazis. this, since the nazis. since this, uh, since the war of 1967, the number of gazans living there is probably something like 8 to 10 times what it was at that time. it is completely ridiculous to talk about genocide . about genocide. >> okay, gary eamonn, thank you so much for speaking so passionately. that is gary mond. he's of the national he's the chair of the national jewish well . jewish assembly. right. well. this is worldview. let's head over to america now and speak to the host of the politics people podcast. paul duddridge. paul, right. so here we go. we've got, uh, mug shot. what uh, trump and his mug shot. what happened? what's about ? happened? what's that about? >> so trump's mug shot, uh, which he's now describing as i'll preface this with, he's now describing this mug shot as the most historically significant artefact in american history. >> and he's not going to get an argument out of me. i completely agree. >> it does make lincoln's top hat look like chopped liver, but he's selling squares,

he's now selling squares, patches of that mug shot suit that became famous worldwide. >> the, uh, when he was arraigned in georgia county , uh, arraigned in georgia county, uh, in fulton county, rather, georgia, for the, uh, uh, for the trial . uh, he is selling the trial. uh, he is selling squares of the suit. if you buy 47 donald trump trading cards. now that's going to set you back about $4,600. but if you do , you about $4,600. but if you do, you get a swatch of the suit. and if you're very lucky, uh, they also come . so he's proving come signed. so he's proving again what a great businessman he is. and he's thinking out of the box. he is now selling squares from the suit that he was, uh, wearing in that mug shot. and i know what i want for christmas. >> is it a square of the supreme court? yes he's very entrepreneurial, but that's why he's so good. and that's why he ran america so well. we love him on the. yeah, he did a good job there. people can't take that from . but what about his from him. but what about his former rudy giuliani former lawyer rudy giuliani who now almost $150 now apparently owes almost $150

million smearing the good million for smearing the good names workers names of two georgian workers dunng names of two georgian workers during the election ? during the election? >> yeah, two vote counts in georgia , fulton county. georgia, fulton county. >> uh, they they protested that rudy giuliani basically had said that the election was stolen and that the election was stolen and that trump had won, and that these people had actually, uh , i these people had actually, uh, i don't even want to get into it. but basically, he was accusing them of perhaps falsifying , uh, them of perhaps falsifying, uh, them of perhaps falsifying, uh, the count. and they sued and for defamation . and he has been defamation. and he has been found liable for $148 million. they're a mother and daughter. they're a mother and daughter. the vote counting duo . and they the vote counting duo. and they have been successful in this, uh, case against rudy giuliani . uh, case against rudy giuliani. now, he this week has decided not to speak about it in court about the this was he was found liable a little while ago. this was, uh, this trial this recent heanng was, uh, this trial this recent hearing was to determine the amount that he would have to pay- amount that he would have to pay. the fact of the matter is, this is probably because he's been silent. that's a sign that

he's going to take this to the supreme court , because the first supreme court, because the first amendment really does protect americans from saying the most egregious things sometimes because they have an absolute right to say it. if they believe it's true at the time. so i'm not a legal scholar, but i do think he is going to be ultimately afforded the protection of the first amendment. this up amendment. when this is taken up to the supreme court. but it's definitely a symbolic definitely a it's a symbolic it's definitely symbolic it's definitely a symbolic hearing. just shows again hearing. it's just shows again that the entire judiciary and establishment is against trump. and all his minions. >> yeah, i doubt rudy giuliani is going to end up paying any of that at all. but what about the delay in the january 6th case? apparently been moved till apparently it's been moved till after election. what's the after the election. what's the january 6th case? and what's the implication? what does it mean by it being moved ? by it being moved? >> the january 6th case is the case that's happening in dc. it's hard to keep up, isn't it? there are so many legal cases and lawsuits against donald trump. the 6th case trump. the january the 6th case is the one in washington, dc that that donald

that states that donald trump attempted insurrection. attempted an insurrection. he attempted an insurrection. he attempted an insurrection. he attempted an incited an insurrection and that he was basically using , uh, not using basically using, uh, not using his presidential powers , uh, to his presidential powers, uh, to incite a crowd to overturn, uh, a lawful election. now that trial is very, very serious. it's perhaps not the one that can get him imprisoned, ultimately, but that's what they're trying in washington, dc . appealed old, . he has now appealed old, saying that he was working within his presidential powers and the judge has actually stayed the case for now. this was going to be happening in march, right in the middle of the beginning of the campaign season. and when it was really hotting up for him, campaigning next year in 2024, it now looks like this trial has to be stayed just because of schedules, timetables and to here for the supreme court to hear whether or not he was protected by his presidential powers . it looks presidential powers. it looks like they're going to have to delay it. and it's at this point it's looking like he can't actually be tried for it until after uh , uh, the election

after the, uh, uh, the election in november. so it's very possible he wins in possible that he wins in november and still is going to have to, uh, face this trial. so again , the legal book is being again, the legal book is being thrown at donald trump, but it looks like this. stay of execution is very, very positive for him because it gives him more freedom to campaign freely. a lot of this, if we believe in lawfare, if we believe in lawfare, if we believe in lawfare, they're using it to , lawfare, they're using it to, uh, clip his wings and make it so he's actually prevented from campaigning. >> i thought, though, if he becomes president with his executive orders, he could probably himself . that's probably clear himself. that's what i don't know what i'm thinking. i don't know whether that yes or no, whether is that a yes or no, because won't be until that because it won't be until that wouldn't be until january 25th. because it won't be until that wotthat's)e until january 25th. because it won't be until that wotthat's all. 1til january 25th. >> that's all. >> that's all. >> uh, all interesting. all right. so much. paul right. thank you so much. paul duddridge, host politics duddridge, host of the politics people to people podcast. great to talk to you as ever. is gb news you as ever. this is gb news more in a moment more to come in a moment. >> very many thanks to you , nana

>> very many thanks to you, nana akua and our headlines this houn akua and our headlines this hour. the home office insists it does have robust plans in place for flights to rwanda, following reports that airlines are refusing to take part in the government's asylum policy . see, government's asylum policy. see, it comes as the man who led a rebellion against the policy says plans are in place for some amendments to the bill in the new year . gb amendments to the bill in the new year. gb news presenter camilla tominey asked mark francois if his opposition to the rwanda plan risked making the rwanda plan risked making the perfect . act the enemy of the perfect. act the enemy of the perfect. act the enemy of the good. >> if the good doesn't work, then it's not good enough. >> it needs it needs to be good enough. now, on a positive note, sir bill cash is already talking to government lawyers about trying to come up with an amendment that actually , if you amendment that actually, if you like, would fill those holes . like, would fill those holes. that would be a very positive thing too. if anybody can draft that amendment, it's bill. so he , he and others are talking to the government in a positive way about trying to draft something

to make sure that the bill is fit for purpose. and that amendment will be tabled in time for the committee stage, which is probably going to be in the second half of january. mark francois, now labour, has accused the government of sending the nhs into the colder months. >> naqui did amid warnings of a winter crisis. the shadow health secretary told gb news that some of the funding problems facing the health service are due to excessive red tape . wes excessive red tape. wes streeting promised that a labour government would work to make gps more accessible . gps more accessible. >> i'm just trying to send a message to the to everyone that the public finances are in a mess thanks to this shower of a government money is going to be tight and we've got to make sure that every penny of taxpayers money is well spent and the argument on the nhs can't just be more money. it has to be reform and modernisation. otherwise i fear that our nhs, as it has been for 75 years, a pubuc as it has been for 75 years, a public service free at the point of use, something i fundamentally believe in will be

at risk. we're streeting now. >> baroness michelle mone has admitted that she failed to reveal her links to a company that supplied ppe gowns to the nhs during the covid pandemic. medpro is currently being investigated by the national crime agency, while the department of health is taking action over a breach of contract. she told the bbc that she made an error by not revealing her links to the company, which led to her husband's trust receiving around £60 million of taxpayers money. but she insisted that lying to the media wasn't a crime . the media wasn't a crime. international news and there's been growing pressure on israel, with lord david cameron joining germany's foreign affairs minister in calling for a ceasefire in gaza in a joint article for the sunday times newspaper, the new foreign secretary warned that too many civilians had been killed and it was time for a sustainable ceasefire . the intervention ceasefire. the intervention marks a significant shift in the

government's tone on israel's war against hamas terrorists. however, lord cameron stopped short of calling for an immediate ceasefire. his comments come a day after israel admitted it mistakenly shot and killed three hostages as they attempted to flee captivity. a manager at network rail has resigned after passengers were left stranded for more than three hours outside london. michelle handforth had been managing director for the wales and western region since 2021. her departure comes after hundreds of people were stuck in the dark in carriages after an overhead cable fault caused all trains to be halted just outside paddington station earlier this month. some passengers said they heard no information from rail operators during the delay and couldn't even use the toilet . couldn't even use the toilet. a couple have become one of the first same sex partnerships to receive a blessing in a church of england service, the prayers . of england service, the prayers. of love and faith, now allowed

to be used in general services were given to catherine bond and jane pearce to celebrate their love this morning the house of bishops sanctioned the blessings just days ago, but there's been no change. it no legislative change. it remains a voluntary decision for ministers and an update for you on tom lockyer. he remains in hospital this afternoon after suffering a cardiac arrest dunng suffering a cardiac arrest during a football game yesterday. the luton town captain is, we're told, in a stable condition. he's undergoing tests and scans. the second half of yesterday's premier league match in bournemouth was abandoned after he collapsed on the field. at the time , the 29 year old was the time, the 29 year old was unresponsive before being taken to hospital , and unresponsive before being taken to hospital, and a quick word about the weather before i go wet weather is on the way in increased quantities across scotland , the met office issuing scotland, the met office issuing an amber warning that means there could be a danger to life . there could be a danger to life. up there could be a danger to life. up to eight inches of rain was forecast for this weekend. more is on the way , and experts are is on the way, and experts are saying it's likely to cause

travel chaos, flooding and possible landslides. people are urged to take great care . that's urged to take great care. that's the news on gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news this is britain's news channel . this is britain's news channel. thank you polly, this is a gb news on tv , online and on news on tv, online and on digital radio. >> i'm nana akua for the next hour, >> i'm nana akua for the next hour , me and my panel will be hour, me and my panel will be taking on some of the big topics hitting the headlines right now. this show is all about opinion. it's it's theirs. and of it's mine, it's theirs. and of course yours. we'll course it's yours. we'll be debating and at times debating discussing and at times we disagree. no one we will disagree. but no one will be cancelled . so joining me will be cancelled. so joining me this broadcaster and this hour, broadcaster and journalist kelly and also journalist danny kelly and also broadcaster christine broadcaster and author christine hamilton. now still to come, each sunday at five, i'm joined by celebrity, former mp or by a celebrity, a former mp or someone has had extremely someone who has had an extremely interesting a interesting career to take a look life the job. we look at. life after the job. we talk lows and lessons talk highs, lows and lessons

learned. comes next on on learned. what comes next on on the outside. and today my guest is fourth generation owner of a family run, smoked salmon business in the uk. he's family run, smoked salmon business in the uk . he's often business in the uk. he's often known as the salmon king. he's a former member of the european parliament and in the past, in a past life worked as an accountant at pwc. any ideas? there's no better beef in the corner next to him, bless him. ah, then, for the great british debate this hour, i'm asking, does sir keir starmer know what debate this hour, i'm asking, dcmeans

look at. life after the job. we talk , lows lessons talk highs, lows and lessons learnt next on learnt and what comes next on the now, my guest learnt and what comes next on the appointed)w, my guest learnt and what comes next on the appointed special my guest learnt and what comes next on the appointed special adviserest learnt and what comes next on the appointed special adviser to was appointed special adviser to the trade secretary and elected to the european parliament as a brexit party mep before taking his career in a very different direction, taking over the fourth generation salmon , fourth generation salmon, smoking the family business or smoking the family business or smoking salmon as. smoking the family business or smoking salmon as . you can. is smoking salmon as. you can. is it salmon smoking? i'll ask him. he's born in islington. he was the president of the cambridge union, qualified as chartered union, qualified as a chartered accountant waterhouse union, qualified as a chartered account.and waterhouse union, qualified as a chartered account.and lizvaterhouse union, qualified as a chartered account.and lizvaterhwas�* coopers and said liz truss was right treasury was right and the treasury was wrong. any ideas? yeah yes, you're right. of course. i'm joined by politician and businessman lance foreman. lance nice. thank you. >> delighted to be here. nana. >> delighted to be here. nana. >> it's very good to see you. yeah now, lance, what do you think when you hear an intro like yourself? like that about yourself? >> of almost hardly >> well, i sort of almost hardly recognise introduction . really amazing introduction. >> no. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> i mean, career has been >> i mean, the career has been quite interesting and actually >> i mean, the career has been quitbeenzresting and actually >> i mean, the career has been quitbeen sandwiched,actually >> i mean, the career has been quitbeen sandwiched, iftually >> i mean, the career has been quitbeen sandwiched, if you'll it's been sandwiched, if you'll excuse phrase between smoked excuse the phrase between smoked salmon and politics and back

into business again. >> and i've often said that, you know, dealing with oily fish and politics actually has a lot of similarities. >> i guess it's slippery and smelly. exactly now, um . do you smelly. exactly now, um. do you ever get sick of salmon, though , ever get sick of salmon, though, of interest? no. it's literally the first thing i do every single morning as i go into work. >> i have a little slice of smoked salmon, and i worked out recently that i think i've eaten about weight about four times my body weight in since i've been in smoked salmon since i've been running the business. >> i want to ask you one thing about salmon. people >> i want to ask you one thing about say salmon. people >> i want to ask you one thing about say the salmon. people >> i want to ask you one thing about say the mercury. people often say the mercury levels in the that it's as the fish mean that it's not as healthy as is. that true? >> all sorts of >> people say all sorts of ridiculous >> people say all sorts of ridi it'syus >> people say all sorts of ridi it's actually very >> it's actually very, very good for . yeah. the key thing if for you. yeah. the key thing if i get message across on i get one message across on smoked salmon , is that smoked salmon, is that the reason smoking salmon? reason for smoking salmon? >> been for over >> we've been doing it for over 100 we're the oldest 100 years and we're the oldest in now. in the world now. >> the reason for smoking salmon is preserve the of the is to preserve the taste of the salmon. salmon salmon. it's to not give salmon a so that is the a smoky flavour. so that is the message christmas . smoked message for christmas. smoked salmon should taste of salmon. >> that's that's we've got a

little somebody there little shot of somebody there that's you because . that's not you because. >> well is it you? >> well is it you? >> that was me. i was slicing salmon very afternoon. salmon this very afternoon. we're really busy at the moment, the lead up to christmas. so you get you get down and dirty on the salmon as well. >> you absolutely do. >> you absolutely do. >> taught slice >> i love i was taught to slice smoked like that smoked salmon like that when i was years old. was about six years old. >> probably pass >> it probably wouldn't pass health standards health and safety standards nowadays. my dad and nowadays. by my by my dad and i just love to with the team just love to be with the team carving salmon. it's very therapeutic. could imagine? to >> could you imagine? so talk to me where were me about you then. so where were you and you know, what was you born and you know, what was it like growing up? tell me a little bit more about who you are. i born and are. um well, i was born and bred london. bred in london. >> in london, uh, all my >> lived in london, uh, all my life. um and, uh , i have three life. um and, uh, i have three sisters. very sadly, my dad passed away in the last month . passed away in the last month. oh, sorry. he was he was a holocaust survivor. oh um, and he had a, i mean, a really very difficult start in life. not like me. i was very lucky. um but he never complained, actually. and you know, and made actually. and you know, and made

a success of his life and actually it set such a great example to all of us. you know, it's so easy to complain , but he it's so easy to complain, but he just made the best of everything. and that sort of to some know, some extent, what i, you know, i've tried the same i've tried, tried to do the same myself, know, and fact , myself, you know, and in fact, when i joined our family business in the 90s with in five years, we were stricken with three major crises. we had a flood which literally flooded the whole premises . we had the whole premises. we had a fire which burnt down and then we were compulsorily purchased to make way to build the olympic stadium. it became quite a high profile story and in every single one of those challenges, we always, you know, always sought to, to find the silver cloud under the silver lining, under the cloud and, and, you know, every crisis, there's , know, in every crisis, there's, you know, you know, if you suck your thumb and sort of moan about it, you're not going to sort out. but sort the problem out. but there's, there's there's, you know, there's always crisis . always hope in any crisis. >> so dad, did he come here >> so your dad, did he come here via is that via the kindertransport? is that how he got well or he was . how he got well or he was. >> i mean, in a way, he was lucky, you know, he born in

lucky, you know, he was born in poland. approached his poland. the nazis approached his village. scarpered headed village. they scarpered headed east, russia and were east, got into russia and were taken prisoner by the russians. he ended up as a child in siberia and a siberian prison camp . and then halfway through camp. and then halfway through the war, when germany attacked russia, they were freed. but had to stay within the bounds of russia. so then he was in in uzbekistan . um very traumatic uzbekistan. um very traumatic time. most of his family were wiped out . time. most of his family were wiped out. um, you time. most of his family were wiped out . um, you know, there wiped out. um, you know, there were awful stories of an uncle of his literally shot in the back of the head by the nazis . back of the head by the nazis. and he thought when, when they went back to their old town at the end of the they found the end of the war, they found that literally had that literally every body had been came over to been killed. and he came over to the as an orphan. he wasn't the uk as an orphan. he wasn't an orphan, but it was the only way his parents could get him to safety he was nine at the safety. he he was nine at the time. um and they managed to get out about two years later and met up, but, uh, very traumatic start to life and we're, you

know , say we're all so lucky know, say we're all so lucky when we reflect on that. >> how did he set up his business? >> well, he , he he didn't >> well, he, he he didn't actually he he married my mother . oh i see and the business was started by my mother's grand father back in 1905. um, so . and father back in 1905. um, so. and she was an only child and, uh , she was an only child and, uh, um, when her father passed away, it was just it was a little bit too much. so he ran the business, took it over and ran it for 30 years. and in fact , it for 30 years. and in fact, you know, he was the one that really developed it every top chefin really developed it every top chef in london, many the chef in london, many around the world, foreman, smoked world, uh, new foreman, smoked salmon work that salmon because of the work that my done. my dad had had done. >> isn't it? >> that's incredible, isn't it? you know, and you're you're carrying on with this legacy, sort and family sort of. and your family business. yes. did your other brothers and sisters, did they get it as well? get involved in it as well? >> um i three sisters. >> um, i have three sisters. they sisters some them they sisters, um, some of them were for brief, were involved for very brief, brief moments . um, but no, i was brief moments. um, but no, i was the one that sort of take on the lead, uh, taken the reins for the last 30 odd years, whilst also getting involved. you know,

i am a sort political animal i am a sort of political animal and, you know, always been and, uh, you know, always been engaged in, in politics. well, i think from college, from my college days, i was i was very actively involved. you mentioned i president of the cambridge i was president of the cambridge union. and then indeed, union. um, and then indeed, after my you know, when i left college, i didn't go straight into the business. a lot of family businesses actually go horribly when they just horribly wrong when they just force to straight force the kids to go straight in. qualify as an in. so i qualify as an accountant. then offered accountant. i was then offered a job as peter lily, now lord lily's political advisor, and so i had a bit of time in politics before i then returning to the family business. um, and um , and family business. um, and um, and then it was really , i suppose, then it was really, i suppose, um, i, uh, well, in, in the sort of mid late, uh, you know, um, 20, 20, 1415 as the brexit debate was starting to, to happen, i started to get re—engaged again . i was happen, i started to get re—engaged again. i was a passionate brexiteer . passionate brexiteer. >> i you still a passionate

brexiteer. well, i am i just brexiteer. well, i am ijust feel we've squandered the opportunity. >> uh nana. i think that there was such a great opportunity, but it's there, you know, it's exactly it's done . we just need exactly it's done. we just need to seize that opportunity that it presents. and in fact , at the it presents. and in fact, at the moment, you know, the growth in our economy at the moment is not great. we're actually we're doing a bit better than europe. europe's really you know, in europe's really you know, not in a a healthy situation a not in a healthy situation economically . at all at the economically. at all at the moment. now, you once described jeremy corbyn, uh, as you're on twitter, i think he called him a nazi . nazi. >> i mean, you what was that about? >> um, i might well have done, you know, there's i think i think politics is interesting. you know, people always talk about right wing and left wing , about right wing and left wing, and think there's and actually, i think there's a circle rather than two sort of wings of this sort of long line. and think that, uh, you know , and i think that, uh, you know, right wing fascism is really not that different to left wing fascism. and they're both about

authoritarianism and, and, uh, obviously being jewish, which i was very, very concerned about jeremy corbyn getting into power. i was a member of the brexit party, and i, in the lead up to the very last election, when boris was standing, i resigned from the brexit party because i was so worried about jeremy corbyn and i said to brexiteers, you know, i announced very publicly, you know, if you really do support brexit, um, don't vote for the brexit, um, don't vote for the brexit party , vote for the brexit party, vote for the conservative party um, nigel wasn't terribly happy with me at the time, but we sort of kissed and made up since , um, but it and made up since, um, but it was really important aid to get bonsin was really important aid to get boris in to get brexit over the line , but also keep jeremy line, but also keep jeremy corbyn well of course corbyn out. well of course jeremy's here to defend jeremy's not here to defend himself obviously. himself either, so obviously. >> just something >> but it's just something that you're user on you're quite a prolific user on twitter, so you're quite out there with some of the comments that people might that you make. some people might think understand that you make. some people might think passionaternderstand that you make. some people might think passionaternderyouri you're passionate with your beliefs. understand that beliefs. i also understand that you're you beliefs. i also understand that you�*the you beliefs. i also understand that you�*the way you beliefs. i also understand that you�*the way this you

beliefs. i also understand that you�*the way this country you beliefs. i also understand that you�*the way this country is you see the way this country is going? so after covid, it did feel like a lot of people in terms of the work ethic and the size of involvement with the state all the money that was state and all the money that was pumped into people stay pumped into people to stay at home. feel about home. what do you feel about politics now when you look at it ? >> well, 7- >> well, i ? >> well, i think that was 7 >> well, i think that was a ? >> well, i think that was a huge mistake by by, um, by well, rishi sunak was chancellor at the time . um, but you know, it the time. um, but you know, it discouraged work and uh , you discouraged work and uh, you know, we can talk a lot of, you know, we can talk a lot of, you know, the whole covid inquiry is going on at the moment. yeah, yeah. of course. no one really knew how to handle it at the beginning first beginning. and the first lockdown potentially lockdown was potentially justifiable. it justifiable. but after that it became that there became quite obvious that there was no point in locking down kids, young people. you know, there just wasn't. you were destroying the economy . it cost, destroying the economy. it cost, you know, we spent something in the of, know, 400 to the region of, you know, 400 to £500 million paying people to sit at home and do nothing. it was obvious that wasn't going to be good for economy. it was be good for the economy. it was obvious that was going create

obvious that was going to create inflation. know , it was inflation. and, you know, it was a ridiculous policy. i think the real problem with politics today, though , is that the today, though, is that the political and indeed the political class and indeed the civil service class don't have real experience, and real commercial experience, and they don't really understand the impact of the decisions they make on real businesses. impact of the decisions they make on real businesses . and make on real businesses. and it's small businesses. you know, we're a small business, but it's small ours that small businesses like ours that drive economy. yeah, i think drive the economy. yeah, i think you are. >> i think you're spot on when you say that. now, recently, sir keir was asked what keir starmer was asked what working is. was unable working class is. he was unable to it at all. in your to define it at all. in your view, what is it? we're view, what is it? because we're going later. view, what is it? because we're goirworking later. view, what is it? because we're goirworking class. later. uh, working class. >> you know again it's a >> you know what? again it's a label a ridiculous label and it's a ridiculous label. actually, i go to work every single day. i'm working class . you know, i was there class. you know, i was there slicing salmon. you've just seen it. the video, it. you've seen the video, seen the you know, the evidence. you know, throughout i went to work throughout covid, i went to work every single day because i thought was important running thought it was important running a to lead by a food business to lead by example . so what working, you example. so what is working, you know, about know, does it? who cares about these labels ? it doesn't really these labels? it doesn't really matter. i think work is really important. obviously important. it's obviously important. it's obviously important economy, but

important for the economy, but i think good for think it's just very good for your you self esteem . your own, you know, self esteem. >> so are you up to now? is >> so what are you up to now? is there anything that we should look doing ? is there look out for you doing? is there anything coming up ? anything coming up coming up? >> um, i'm frantic , busy at >> um, well i'm frantic, busy at the moment for the next few days because this is our crazy busy season in the lead up to christmas. obviously next year is a big political year. we've got the election coming up. um, l, got the election coming up. um, i, i do have i do have grave concerns. um you know, everyone talks about , concerns. um you know, everyone talks about, you concerns. um you know, everyone talks about , you know, it's talks about, you know, it's a it's all sewn up by keir starmer. i think it is. well it maybe it is, maybe it isn't. what worries me is that, uh, is that the hard left politically assassinates starmer within a very short space of time . very short space of time. obviously not literally. no, no, no . politically assassinate him. no. politically assassinate him. not not literally not none of that. not not literally not none of that . none of that stuff. no. that. none of that stuff. no. absolutely not. but but but you know, i think that that is a fear. i don't think people see a huge amount of difference between starmer and sunak. i think people are just so disaffected disenchanted

disaffected and disenchanted with all politicians the with all politicians at the moment. i think that moment. and i think that actually mean is actually what that could mean is that either might just that people either might just stay away or they might take a chance on a third party. and i think that reform party has an interesting opportunity going forward . but i think their forward. but i think their strategy is wrong. i think fighting the whole country is silly. i think they should focus on a small number of seats, which might end up giving them the balance of power. >> well, you never know though. you in you saw what happened in argentina, might be argentina, so people might be that they might. that annoyed that they might. i'll sway you. never that annoyed that they might. i'll listen.'ay you. never that annoyed that they might. i'll listen. absolutely.'er that annoyed that they might. i'll listen. absolutely. lance know. listen. absolutely. lance is to talk to is such a pleasure to talk to you. so much you. thank you so much for joining today. that of joining me today. that is, of course, lance course, businessman lance foreman, as the foreman, otherwise known as the salmon king. right it's coming up to 22 minutes after 5:00. this is gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua. and on digital radio. i'm nana akua . uh, coming up, it's time akua. uh, coming up, it's time for the great british debate this. and i'm asking you, what does mean to be working does it mean to be working class?

with me. michael portillo, gb news. >> britain's new news . >> britain's new news. channel. >> britain's new news. channel. >> it'sjust >> britain's new news. channel. >> it's just gone 25 minutes after 5:00. this is a gbilliono twos if you've just tuned in. welcome on board. i'm nana akua. we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. it's time now for the great british debate. this hour. the great british debate. this hour . and i'm the great british debate. this hour. and i'm asking, does sir keir starmer understand the working class in the ongoing debate about social class, it's crucial to differentiate between the working and middle classes , the working and middle classes, a task that sir keir starmer has

seemed to struggle with. let's have a listen to what he thinks working class means. >> yourself is working class, sir keir. >> define working class as working is families that, working class is families that, um, you know, work for their living, earn their money through going out to work every day, not through other middle classes. do that well, working class families have the ordinary hope to get on in life . i mean, this to get on in life. i mean, this has been the story of ipsis have that. of course they do. >> of course they do. >> of course they do. >> so, but i distinction i was i was addressing , um, a particular was addressing, um, a particular thing i think with working class families, which is this sense that. so i talked about the nagging voice that many families have that this isn't for you. this isn't for me. have that this isn't for you. this isn't for me . and i think this isn't for me. and i think that holds people back . but i that holds people back. but i do, because people will say to me, well, look here, you know, um, you have come a long way. you're state school. yeah. but that that is.

>> yeah, but he's still not quite answered the question. i see. mean , that's quite see. i mean, that's quite interesting , isn't it? i was interesting, isn't it? i was expecting that when you did the woman thing, but you didn't do that. but was the that. um, but that was the labour leader, sir keir starmer, speaking class. speaking on the working class. but convinced but are you really convinced that knows or that keir starmer knows or understands of understands the meaning of working class? well, i'm joined now by benedict spence, political commentator peter spencer , former political spencer, former sky political correspondent and jess gill, political commentator . i'm correspondent and jess gill, political commentator. i'm going to with you, benedict to start with you, benedict spence you make of his spence. what do you make of his definition of working class people to work ? people who go to work? >> um, i mean, that's rather amusing. >> i was at university with people who look like me. >> sound like me, and were convinced that they were working class they voted class because they voted labour and jobs . and they had jobs. >> know, it's >> so, you know, it's understandable . lots of people understandable. lots of people seem fall this trap. seem to fall into this trap. >> i would rather >> i would say it's rather harder nowadays define what harder nowadays to define what it is working class from what it once was. >> um, you know, i think it's easier in many ways to move between the working and, and various stages of middle class ,

various stages of middle class, um, if you like. it's still obviously rather hard to get into the, uh, into the upper classes, unless you're, uh, david cameron as nadine dorries will tell us but, you know, will tell us all. but, you know, it's, suppose, difficult will tell us all. but, you know, it's, su it'sse, difficult will tell us all. but, you know, it's, su it'sse, longert will tell us all. but, you know, it's, suit'sse, longer simply will tell us all. but, you know, it's, su it'sse, longer simply a because it's no longer simply a three tier system. you've got it's fractured along all kinds of different lines. it's a lot more regional than i think it used to be. um, and of course, labour has to try to pick off at a lot of these because these are groups or groups that can go tory or laboun groups that can go tory or labour. they vote labour. you know, they vote brexit, they're white. van man. they're blair was they're things that blair was able to win, but they're also the was able the people that boris was able to win. so i think people to win. so i think saying people that of trying that work is his way of trying to make as broad as possible, to make it as broad as possible, trying many trying to say as to as many people as possible, you're people as possible, yes, you're natural home labour natural home is the labour party. fooled by the party. don't be fooled by the ghost thatcher ghost of margaret thatcher and the curtain. the stories behind the curtain. but that is concerning. >> seeing the labour party >> seeing as the labour party kind what was kind of represented what was deemed many years as working class, actually class, if you can't actually come with with some sort come through with with some sort of concrete definition, peter spencer well, i mean, when you think about it all mps, because

they earn the best part, just as a backbencher, the best part of 90,000 a year, they're all slightly susceptible to that glorious parody of the red flag. >> the working class can kiss my world. you know where i've got the job at last. now, the foreman's job at last. now, when we come to keir starmer specifically. okay you know, he lives in a fancy part of london. he's got the knighthood. he's bells and whistles, blah, blah, blah, but go back little blah, but go back a little further . man actually further. the man actually was brought in a in a pebble brought up in a in a pebble dashed semi. he actually did have to share a bedroom with his brother until he went to university. there were times when they couldn't , when they when they couldn't, when they when they couldn't, when they when they couldn't, when they when they had the phone cut off because they couldn't actually afford to pay it. his dad afford to pay it. and his dad actually was a toolmaker. oh, and by the way, the posh school , and by the way, the posh school, um, he got he passed 11 plus and then got a bursary and indeed he was the first member of his family go to uni. so family ever to go to uni. so i suspect that he's got a very fair handle. in fact, i would

suspect he's also got a fair few fairly slightly traumatising memories . fairly slightly traumatising memories. his dad had a had a had a thingy on his , a chip on had a thingy on his, a chip on his shoulder. i get there in the end a chip on his shoulder about the fact that, you know, people looked him he looked down on him because he was toolmaker . so i suspect, was a toolmaker. so i suspect, as i that , that starmer has as i say, that, that starmer has got much a handle on it. got a very much a handle on it. oh, final quickly, oh, and one final thing quickly, he's now he's an arsenal supporter . he's now he's an arsenal supporter. right. my case rests . supporter. right. my case rests. and right. >> all right jess gill, what do you think? >> um, i don't think keir starmer represents the working class because no party is really discussing really tackling the main issue which the working party working class really cares about , which party working class really cares about, which is immigration. >> this is why they have to use this socialist rhetoric , this socialist rhetoric, claiming that they're for the working class . well, they don't working class. well, they don't actually believe that. they actually believe in that. they want talk about this old want to talk about this old school economic which school economic policy, which isn't representative of isn't really representative of current . and they're current economics. and they're really ignoring the main thing

that most working class people, most british people, genuinely care about, which is immigration. immigration is soaring and no political party has the guts to really deal with that. hmm >> perhaps that's because there's so isolated from the effects of it. they don't really realise. but i'll give you a definition then. working class, a social group consisting primarily people who are primarily of people who are employed unskilled or employed in unskilled or semi—skilled manual or industrial work. and that's the definition , the dictionary definition, the dictionary definition, the dictionary definition, which i think if on the opposite english language dictionary, have dictionary, he could have perhaps himself. perhaps read and helped himself. thank you very much to benedict spence. peter spencer and also jess gill. lovely to talk to you. thanks to your so you. thanks to your thoughts. so what do think? does sir what do you think? does sir keir starmer working starmer understand the working class? or class? gb views gb news. com or tweet but how tweet me at gb news. but how would you like to win £10,000 in cash? new tech and cash? brand new tech and shopping vouchers? well, you could the winner of our very could be the winner of our very first great british giveaway here. the details of how you here. all the details of how you can the those prizes yours . can make the those prizes yours. >> you really could be the winner of the very first great

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good luck. >> all right. what do you think sounds good. well why not. but you're with me. i'm nana akua. this is gb news on tv, online and radio. coming up, and on digital radio. coming up, we'll great we'll continue with the great british debate this hour. i'm asking, sir keir starmer asking, does sir keir starmer understand the working class? you'll thoughts you'll hear the thoughts of my panel , danny you'll hear the thoughts of my panel, danny kelly and also christine first christine hamilton. but first let's get latest news with let's get your latest news with polly . polly. >> the headlines this hour, the home office insists it does have robust plans for flights to rwanda , following reports that rwanda, following reports that airlines are refusing to take part in the government's asylum policy and that comes as the tory mp mark francois, who led a rebellion against the rwanda bill, told gb news that plans are in place for amendments to be tabled to the bill next year. labour has accused the government of sending the nhs into the colder months of this yean into the colder months of this year, naked, amid warnings of a winter crisis. the shadow health secretary told gb news that some of the funding problems facing

the health system are due to excessive red tape. wes streeting promised that a labour government would work to make mps accessible , while mps more accessible, while baroness michelle mone has admitted she failed to reveal her links to a company that suppued her links to a company that supplied ppe gowns to the nhs dunng supplied ppe gowns to the nhs during the covid pandemic. medpro . is currently being medpro. is currently being investigated by the national crime agency and the department of health is taking action over a breach of contract, told a breach of contract, she told the bbc that she made an error by not revealing her links to the company , which led her the company, which led to her husband's receiving around husband's trust receiving around £60 million of taxpayers money. but she insisted that lying to the media wasn't a crime , and the media wasn't a crime, and the media wasn't a crime, and the northernmost point of the shetland islands has become home to the uk's first licensed space spaceport. it's already , spaceport. it's already, apparently for vertical rocket launches as the first take offs from saxavord are due next year. after the civil aviation authority gave the go ahead . the authority gave the go ahead. the privately owned site will host

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channel. >> at 38 minutes after 5:00, this is gb news. i'm nana akua. we're live on tv , online and on we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. it's time for the great british debate. this hour . great british debate. this hour. and i'm asking, does sir keir starmer, under stand working starmer, under stand the working class ongoing debate class in the ongoing debate about it's crucial about social class? it's crucial to differentiate the to differentiate between the working and middle classes, a task that sir keir starmer has seemed to struggle with. let's have a listen to what he thinks working class means. >> as you describe yourself as working class, sir keir define working class, sir keir define working class. >> no working class is, um, families that, um, you know, work for their living, earn their money through going out to work every day , not through work every day, not through other middle classes. do that. well, working class families have the ordinary hope to get on in life . i mean, have the ordinary hope to get on in life. i mean, this has have the ordinary hope to get on in life . i mean, this has been in life. i mean, this has been the story of this. have that. of course they do. of course they do . so, but i distinction i was do. so, but i distinction i was i was addressing , um, a

i was addressing, um, a particular thing i think, oh dear! particular thing i think, oh dear i love it, i love it. >>— dear i love it, i love it. >> what does the middle class do that as well. so basically he says go work that says people who go to work that was keir starmer speaking on lbc, so. so for lbc, a while back or so. so for the great british debate this houn the great british debate this hour, does keir hour, i'm asking does sir keir starmer understand the working class? after that's kind of class? after all, that's kind of who party were meant who the labour party were meant to . let's see what my to represent. let's see what my panel make that. i'm joined panel make of that. i'm joined by broadcaster journalist by broadcaster and journalist danny broadcaster danny kelly and also broadcaster and christine hamilton. and author christine hamilton. well, we couldn't stop well, i mean, we couldn't stop laughing because broadcasting gold, wasn't it almost as good as does he know what a woman is? >> he the woman? >> he the woman? >> what do you think, christine? >> what do you think, christine? >> well, i think it's a totally outdated concept, isn't . it? outdated concept, isn't. it? working class. we all know what it used to mean. it's, you know, the people who worked in the steel mills and etc, etc. all steel mills and etc, etc. we all know working class used to know what working class used to mean, but it doesn't any longer. it concept, it is an outdated concept, obviously. i mean, keir starmer's definition, mean, starmer's definition, i mean, that's all three of us, for goodness sake. we go out to

work. you know, some people work from but from home, of course, but basically all working basically we're all working class. and what keir starmer is, is he is the political elite and the division now is between the ordinary people and the elite . ordinary people and the elite. and keir starmer is definitely the elite, the woke liberal elite. he doesn't understand ordinary people, which is why he took the view that he did over brexit. he didn't. and that's why the establishment was so horrified when brexit happened, because they were so of because they were so out of touch with ordinary people touch with what ordinary people felt mean, you imagine felt. i mean, can you imagine keir starmer working keir starmer down at a working men's he's a sort of men's club? no, he's a sort of guy who would just try and be down the lads. he would down with the lads. he would order a beer, but he'd half order a beer, but he'd have half a might argue that a pint. but he might argue that he in a working he grew up in a very working class household, so mind. class household, so in his mind. but doesn't him but that doesn't make him working class. think working class. and i think people , people just people, people who just observers , who watch people like observers, who watch people like him trying hang on his him trying to hang on to his parents they don't parents roots, they don't respect that the people they respect that the people they respect are people like jacob rees—mogg , who is working rees—mogg, who is not working class, makes no attempt to class, who makes no attempt to hide what he is. and people

respect him for that. >> well, i don't think he'd get away with it if he tried. >> no, but but but starmer tries and he's trying to hang to and he's trying to hang on to his working upbringing. he his working class upbringing. he is way starmer working is no way is starmer working class. not. class. he's not. >> but but you sort of said you started saying that there's no sort definition it. but sort of definition for it. but now that he now you've said that he definitely class. okay. all right. >> all right. caught on my own petard. but mean, it used to petard. but i mean, it used to be my vintage knows be anybody of my vintage knows exactly class used exactly what working class used to be. it doesn't . is somebody to be. it doesn't. is somebody who works in mcdonald's serving burgers are they working class? not necessarily . me. no. i mean, not necessarily. me. no. i mean, it's a concept. i just think it's a concept. i just think it's an outdated concept. now >> bannau kelly, i think you can more clearly define it by your your income nowadays. i think , your income nowadays. i think, and you can almost geographically see parochially you can define it by a location. so if you live in a on a council estate in the west midlands and you're earning and i'm just going pluck a figure from going to pluck a figure from thin air, but if you're if you're a husband and wife and you're a husband and wife and you're earning, 23 you're both earning, say, 23 grand you live on a grand each and you live on a

council the west council estate in the west midlands you're buying midlands and maybe you're buying the think the council proper, i think you're working class. i think i once was working class and but i don't think i am working class anymore based on that definition. um, i have my own business outside of the bbc. >> oh the bbc, oh, here we go. >> oh the bbc, oh, here we go. >> i don't work for them anymore. i my own business. anymore. i have my own business. i do my broadcasting as well, so i do my broadcasting as well, so i i'm working class. i don't think i'm working class. but i was definitely at one point without point working class without i was a chef working 60 hours a week at a hotel, earning a pittance , and i was living with pittance, and i was living with my dad and would say my mum and dad. and i would say that was working that at that point i was working class. because of my success class. now because of my success and hard work and toil, i have taken that class taken myself out of that class and i definitely don't live in and i definitely don't live in an which i described. an area which i just described. well, a very would preclude well, it's a very would preclude me from that , well, it's a very would preclude me from that, but it's very fluid now . fluid now. >> it used to be absolutely obvious. you working class, obvious. you were working class, middle class, upper class. now the very, very the boundaries are very, very fluid. and the sort of fluid. and yes, the sort of person described , um, person you've described, um, would be working class. would possibly be working class. i just think it's an outdated concept. well, don't think it concept. well, i don't think it is . is. >> i don't think any concept

because the dictionary because i'll read the dictionary definition, social group, definition, the social group, considering primarily considering consisting primarily of people employed in of people who are employed in unskilled or semi—skilled manual or industrial work. now, there are still people who do unskilled, semi—skilled or manual or industrial work and that does exist as a category, i believe . and it's like the blue believe. and it's like the blue collar, white collar workers, that sort of thing. and i think he should have been able to come up of definition up with some sort of definition that more realistic. and that was more realistic. and i think that's the crux of why he doesn't connect with his grassroots, party, grassroots, of his party, because he doesn't it because he doesn't know what it is what stood for to begin because he doesn't know what it is ihat stood for to begin because he doesn't know what it is i think stood for to begin because he doesn't know what it is i think he'sj for to begin because he doesn't know what it is i think he's almost begin with. i think he's almost confused, but may i just address what said? confused, but may i just address wh.| said? confused, but may i just address wh.| think said? confused, but may i just address wh.| think you've the nail >> i think you've hit the nail on because the one on the head because the one thing want say was on the head because the one thinword want say was on the head because the one thinword unskilled,t say was on the head because the one thinword unskilled, because nas on the head because the one thinword unskilled, because as. the word unskilled, because as one man's unskilled definition is another man's definition of being highly skilled. so an unskilled, let's just say semi—skilled. can be a cook semi—skilled. you can be a cook in a school and you could be classed as unskilled or semi—skilled. a keir semi—skilled. now for a sir keir starmer a knight of the realm to disparage you demographically by calling you semi—skilled or skilled, you would say, hang on,

keir. although i'm a cook, i am highly skilled. that's what highly skilled. and that's what he say. well i, i he didn't want to say. well i, i absolutely agree because he. >> well how is going to >> yeah, well how is he going to run not going run a country if he's not going to honest straightforward to be honest and straightforward because that is what the working class people like you and class and people like you and i are waiting for. >> he's going to keep >> and if he's going to keep dancing the edges and i'm dancing around the edges and i'm afraid he can dance but afraid he can dance off. but this nothing without this show is nothing without you and views. that's welcome, and your views. that's welcome, our voices our great british voices onto the their opportunity the show. their opportunity to tell about the show. their opportunity to telltopics about the show. their opportunity to telltopics we're about the show. their opportunity to telltopics we're discussing.jt the topics we're discussing. i've you. i'm going the topics we're discussing. i'vstart you. i'm going the topics we're discussing. i'vstart with you. i'm going the topics we're discussing. i'vstart with adrianu. i'm going the topics we're discussing. i'v start with adrian gell1 going the topics we're discussing. i'v start with adrian gell in oing to start with adrian gell in shropshire. adrian gell, what do you sir keir you think about sir keir starmer? he's people who work , starmer? he's people who work, people who work well. >> i mean like all champagne socialists , um, i doubt he has socialists, um, i doubt he has anyidea socialists, um, i doubt he has any idea any more of what the what the proper working class is . uh, so how can it be? i mean, the class system is now so different to what it was in 1945. yeah, he was grammar school educated . uh, he went to school educated. uh, he went to university before the socialist governments brought in, uh, tuition fees in 1998. so he's

got no debt to have to pay off. um, as a result, reportedly, he's worth 7.5 million plus. and with that, how can he possibly consider himself as being working class, especially under the definition that you've just quoted as being working class? he is part of the of the liberal elite and but he should be. >> but if he knows that if he's asked a simple question like that, though, he should be able to give some sort definition to give some sort of definition as to um, may mean to a as to what, um, it may mean to a lot of people because we haven't given up on the definition. david barbe watford, david barbe in watford, the definition i was a member of working middle and upper class was, uh, john cleese renee barker, ronnie corbett. >> got etc. the exact >> i got down, etc. the exact definition is anyone that's working is working class, but unfortunately , keir starmer and unfortunately, keir starmer and the liberal elite have actually forgotten all about what the man up north, as they say , thinks up north, as they say, thinks they are not interested in half

they are not interested in half the things that they're talking about, what they're interested in is who's going to deal with immigration, who actually in is who's going to deal with immigto:ion, who actually in is who's going to deal with immigto make ho actually in is who's going to deal with immigto make things ctually in is who's going to deal with immigto make things happen. going to make things happen. people keir people can't forget that keir starmer value starmer still doesn't value what people for in the people voted for in the referendum. so how can anyone think he values their whole inputis think he values their whole input is that he's a fence sitter who's getting more and more splintered, trying to avoid the truth. >> yeah. all right, let's go to philip hoy hertfordshire . philip hoy in hertfordshire. >> hi, nana. >> hi, nana. >> um, can't hear you. >> um, can't hear you. >> sorry, nana. >> sorry, nana. >> people have to remember. >> people have to remember. >> sorry . carry on. philip okay. >> sorry. carry on. philip okay. thank you. yeah >> um, what people have to remember is that the working class have lost interest in the labour party because they've realised that it's the labour party's interest to keep them low paid because as long as they're low paid, they've got aspirations. >> scuse the voice. i'm sorry. >>— >> scuse the voice. i'm sorry. >> i've got a terrible cold. >> i've got a terrible cold. >> uh, they've got aspirations to move up, which is obviously what the tories always said. and margaret thatcher actually did that. she took lots of people out of working class and out of the working class and they had aspirations to become

middle they had aspirations to become micsoe they had aspirations to become micso now the problem is because >> so now the problem is because labour have lost some they they've caught on the working class , have caught on to the class, have caught on to the labour lie. so now that's the reason they want to bring so many immigrants in because they haven't on yet. and as haven't caught on yet. and as long as can do a vote, keir long as they can do a vote, keir starmer will be happy. >> think i well i think >> hmm. i think i well i think he's he's lost touch with the people who are working class. and there are many of the people who themselves who would class themselves as working class in particular, many who say many up north, who would say that. he's that. and that's why he's probably red and probably lost the red wall and the blue as well. david the blue wall as well. david barham, thank you very much. in watford, hoy in watford, philip hoy in hertfordshire adrian hertfordshire and also adrian gell. you think, gell. so what do you think, do you what you think he understands what it means working class? means to be a working class? keep thoughts coming gb keep your thoughts coming gb views gb news. tweet views out gb news. com or tweet me news. right. on me at gb news. right. moving on to caught to another story that caught my eye are prince and eye today are prince harry and meghan looking to patch meghan markle looking to patch up relationship up their royal relationship ahead of christmas? two hopes bob and no hope. the royal bob hope and no hope. the royal family spend christmas at sandringham house but as it stands, the duke of sussex and his family aren't included on those so prince harry's

those plans. so prince harry's had this week been awarded £140,000 in damages following a phone hacking lawsuit against mirror group newspapers . the mirror group newspapers. the high court ruled that there was extensive hacking. but what do you think? is he trying to sort of claw his way back? uh, let's start with you, danny kelly. >> that he won the >> i made up that he won the phone hacking. fair enough. i really am . um, i am, i just want really am. um, i am, ijust want to say that as well, looking at things , there's no things objectively, there's no way the royal family are going to let that lad cross the threshold. no way . after what threshold. no way. after what he's done to them . okay. and i'm he's done to them. okay. and i'm looking at things objectively again. there is no way he's betrayed them unless he comes with a mere culpa and his hand out as an apology. and then a father will shake their hand, kiss him on the cheek, and welcome him back the fold. kiss him on the cheek, and wel

law, catherine. well, no, that was in scobie's book. >> he didn't actually say that, but he hasn't distanced himself from said from it, has he? but you said him he said that. from it, has he? but you said hinall he said that. from it, has he? but you said hinall right. said that. from it, has he? but you said hinall right. okay. said that. from it, has he? but you said hinall right. okay. he! that. from it, has he? but you said hinall right. okay. he hasn't >> all right. okay. he hasn't distanced it. and distanced himself from it. and if somebody had accused me of making an accusation like that against my sister in law, etc, etc. i would instantly said, hang moment. didn't hang on a moment. i didn't authorise not true . authorise that. that's not true. he hasn't. omission , an he hasn't. so by omission, an one can only assume that he thinks that right? but no. i mean, imagine what's her mean, can you imagine what's her name? meghan. enjoying sort name? meghan. enjoying the sort of the royal family of humour that the royal family have? the queen have? i mean, the queen apparently was given some marigold washing up gloves by princess anne one year, which great gift to give the queen. i just can't um, meghan , you just can't see. um, meghan, you know, getting down with all that sort stuff. i'm with you. it sort of stuff. i'm with you. it ain't happen. ain't going to happen. >> with you on that. well, >> i'm with you on that. well, as soon as just tuned in. as soon as you're just tuned in. welcome near the end of the show, joining show, though, for joining me, broadcaster and journalist danny kelly author broadcaster and journalist danny kelly hamilton, author broadcaster and journalist danny kelly hamilton, it's author christine hamilton, it's time for sunday, where my for supplements sunday, where my panel and i discuss some of the news stories that caught their eye. going start eye. danny, i'm going to start with

eye. danny, i'm going to start witiyeah, sad like >> yeah, very sad news. like a lot addicts, like a lot lot of drug addicts, like a lot of alcoholics, they lie to themselves, they lie to their friends matthew friends and family. matthew perry, the friend star, was never he lied his never clean. he lied about his sobriety. tragic star's friend claims after autopsy revealed actor died of a ketamine overdose. enough ketamine in his system to knock out a horse, apparently , he had been telling apparently, he had been telling people he hadn't touched it for 18 months. and this is unfortunately symptomatic of people drug problems and people with drug problems and alcohol . they just lie alcohol problems. they just lie to themselves and they lie to their families. to themselves and they lie to theirfamilies. it's to themselves and they lie to their families. it's such a shame. >> very sad, very sad. >> very sad, very sad. >> well on a much >> christine. well on a much happier my supplement is happier note, my supplement is all about one of us on this panel and it's you and it's panel and it's not you and it's not , it's nana. yes you. not me, it's nana. no. yes you. you know this story, but you perhaps didn't know i was going to say so. you rocked up at the house of lords the other day by invitation and you were given an award. your contribution the award. your contribution to the media as part the of media as part of the house of lords. commonwealth business awards. >> it's amazing. i had not i had no idea. >> no idea. you've >> no idea. you've >> yeah. >> yeah. >> that's me there you are.

>> that's me there you are. >> i had no idea that you were going to talk about that. oh i just carry it with me all the time. >> look, look at that. >> look, look at that. >> don't drop it on your foot. >> don't drop it on your foot. >> commonwealth business >> the commonwealth business awards, for awards, in recognition for excellent to the excellent contribution to the media. wow. thank you. >> well done. and i think it's thoroughly deserved. >> so do i. >>- >> so do i. >> thank you. yeah. >> thank you. yeah. >> applause our >> round of applause for our newest fun. >> w- w— well. >> here by merit. >> here by merit. >> oh thank you. yeah. true, true. >> a lot of people cast doubt on that. but you're here by merit. absolutely right. >> and now my supplement. >> and now for my supplement. you this you know, i couldn't let this go. is growing on the go. pressure is growing on the bbc take action. and finally bbc to take action. and finally remove their remove gary lineker from their from presenting line—up. from their presenting line—up. after repeatedly making political posts on social media only this week, the incoming chair of the corporation suggested that the match of the day broke their day presenter broke their guidelines wonder guidelines, as many wonder if lineker's at beeb is lineker's time at the beeb is coming end . and so i think coming to an end. and so i think ihave coming to an end. and so i think i have to come to you, danny, immediately, because you worked at the bbc? >> listen, i love lineker, >> yeah, listen, i love lineker, the he played the footballer. he played for everton. in everton. he scored 40 goals in

one he needs to be one season. he needs to be reminded how unpop suella he is amongst bbc staff because he is doing damage to the future doing more damage to the future of the licence single of the licence fee, single handedly than defund bbc handedly than any defund the bbc organisation . i wish for one organisation. i wish for one second he'd look at the bigger picture lot of people picture because a lot of people hate what he's doing politically. on twitter. that's what that's the truth of the bbc staff . staff. >> briefly to you, chris, it's all gone to his head, hasn't it. the bbc have okay, brilliant footballer. the have footballer. but the bbc have made is now with his made him what he is now with his massive following. i have this theory the bbc useful theory that he's the bbc useful idiot he goes out there idiot and he goes out there saying the things that they'd quite like to say, no, his quite like to say, but no, his days numbered. he will be days are numbered. he will be gone. like to by gone. i'd like to say, by christmas, doubt he christmas, but i doubt it. he will be gone. >> according our twitter >> according to our twitter poll, show i've poll, throughout the show i've been do believe mass been asking, do you believe mass migration a migration is being used as a weapon? according twitter weapon? according to our twitter poll, now poll, 91% of you say yes. now i'm sad if you say no. thank you so my broadcaster so much to my panel. broadcaster and danny kelly, and journalist danny kelly, broadcaster of broadcaster and author of christine thank christine hamilton. and thank you your company. you to you for your company. i will you next week. will see you next week. same time, place. 3:00 on saturday. >> it looks like things are

heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. of weather on. gb news. >> hello there. good evening. i'm jonathan vautrey here with your gb news weather forecast provided by the met office . provided by the met office. there is plenty weather to there is plenty of weather to keep over course keep us occupied over the course of week , and that of this coming week, and that starts off even on sunday evening of evening and night. this band of rain spreading its way across parts of northern ireland, northern england, southwest scotland, of scotland, even into parts of wales as the southeastern wales as well. the southeastern areas of england will hold on to wales as well. the southeastern a|few of england will hold on to wales as well. the southeastern a|few clearerand will hold on to wales as well. the southeastern a|few clearer spells,l hold on to wales as well. the southeastern a|few clearer spells, and d on to wales as well. the southeastern a|few clearer spells, and also to a few clearer spells, and also in of scotland a few clearer spells, and also in see of scotland a few clearer spells, and also in see some of scotland a few clearer spells, and also in see some clearscotland a few clearer spells, and also in see some clear spells|d will see some clear spells overnight that will allow temperatures drop down overnight that will allow tem|mid ures drop down overnight that will allow tem|mid single drop down overnight that will allow tem|mid single figures down overnight that will allow tem|mid single figures also./n overnight that will allow tem whereingle figures also. in overnight that will allow tem where youe figures also. in overnight that will allow tem where you are ures also. in overnight that will allow tem where you are stuck lso. in but where you are stuck underneath all that cloud and rain another mild night, rain will be another mild night, not much than 10 to not seeing much lower than 10 to 12 c. rain will slowly push 12 c. that rain will slowly push its way southwards as we head throughout the day, so there will be some early brightness in the cloud the southeast, but the cloud will up way will tend to thicken up its way in afternoon. in here and into the afternoon. it's parts of it's going to be parts of northern ireland, into central areas to areas of scotland that start to see its way and see the sun poke its way in, and the winds will also easing the winds will also be easing out north, but still out in the north, but still quite for england quite blustery for england and

wales once again. generally, temperatures for temperatures above average for the time of year between 10 and 13 c on tuesday. our the time of year between 10 and 13 c on tuesday . our attention 13 c on tuesday. our attention to this next area of frontal systems that are going to push their in from the southwest, their way in from the southwest, so like wales and so it's looking like wales and england that going to bear england that are going to bear the the rainfall the brunt of the rainfall on tuesday rush tuesday could be a very wet rush hour period. first thing on the day. of spray on the roads day. lots of spray on the roads when travelling. that day. lots of spray on the roads wheieventually'avelling. that day. lots of spray on the roads wheieventually clear ng. that day. lots of spray on the roads wheieventually clear ng. wayt will eventually clear its way off, behind you'll see off, and behind that you'll see those sunny spells pushing in from but also from the northwest, but also with some scattered showers. they could over the they could be wintry over the higher ground areas of scotland. it's that of sunshine and it's that theme of sunshine and showers continue into showers that will continue into the second half of the week, with winds still with some strong winds still around but by around at times as well. but by that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsor of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello! thank you for being a big part of gb news >> we'd like to wish you and your loved ones a christmas season full of comfort and joy, as well as a peaceful and prosperous new year. >> from our family to yours, we

are proud to be your channel. >> merry christmas , happy >> merry christmas, happy christmas, merry christmas , christmas, merry christmas, happy christmas, merry christmas, merry christmas, merry christmas here on gb news the people's channel. >> merry christmas

when i was a boy, i quite enjoyed school. you know, maths, latin, english. but there was one subject that made me anxious is religion. i was told that someone in the old testament drove his chariot furiously at, and that another danced delicately, and i wanted to say, and your point is. delicately, and i wanted to say, and your point is . and there was

and your point is. and there was this chap called jesus who