acheson said that if britain votes him in essentially our country will become like venezuela for the next 20 years. do you agree with that? harsh or true and get this everybody. mps could be set for a massive 7.1% pay could be set for a massive 7.1% pay rise, taking their pay. are you sitting comfortably to . you sitting comfortably to. 92,731 pence? get tell me this. do you think that is too much money? just shy of £93,000. too much or too little ? ah. does it

much or too little? ah. does it doesit much or too little? ah. does it does it encourage the right calibre of mps to join our politics or not? and speaking of politics, do you remember the new immigration policy which would basically mean that £38,700 would be what you have to earn if you want to bring your loved ones to the country, if you want to come and live here, looks now, though, like legal action will be taken against that policy by people claiming cruel. is it? claiming it's cruel. is it? i also want to to you about also want to talk to you about so—called non—suspicious. stop and search. section 60. should this practice be banned , or is this practice be banned, or is it an essential tool to help us this practice be banned, or is it an people al tool to help us this practice be banned, or is it an people safeol to help us this practice be banned, or is it an people safe .. to help us this practice be banned, or is it an people safe . yeah, lp us this practice be banned, or is it an people safe . yeah, i'mis keep people safe. yeah, i'm going to have some robust debate on all of those topics. ben habib and doctor richard johnson keeping me company tonight . but keeping me company tonight. but before we get stuck in, let's cross live for tonight's latest headunes. headlines. >> thanks, michelle. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom , a

wenzler in the gb newsroom, a body that was found in the river wensum in norwich has been formally identified. 55 year old gaynor lord disappeared after leaving work in the city centre on the 8th of december. police say the cause of death appears to be consistent with drowning and there are no indications of any third party involvement at russell. brand has been questioned by police. a second time over alleged sexual offences. the actor and comedian was interviewed under caution last week over six allegations after being questioned last month over three other claims. the 48 year old has been accused of rape, assault and emotional . of rape, assault and emotional. abuse between 2006 and 2013 following a joint investigation by the sunday times. the times and channel 4 dispatches. he strongly denies the claims . strongly denies the claims. baroness michelle mone has hit out at the prime minister after he said he takes the scandal surrounding her involvement with a ppe firm incredibly seriously . a ppe firm incredibly seriously. it's after she admitted she's

set to benefit from a contract between ppe firm medpro and the government , which generated government, which generated a £60 million profit. posting on social media, lady mone said i was honest with the cabinet office and the nhs in my deaungs office and the nhs in my dealings with them. yesterday she told the bbc she contacted michael gove at the start of the pandemic after he made a call to arms for massive quantities of personal protective equipment. rishi sunak says the government has launched a legal case against the company. >> in this whole situation is subject to an ongoing criminal investigation, but also the government is taking action. legal action against a company involved. so there's a limit to what i can say other than to say we take all these things incredibly seriously . and that's incredibly seriously. and that's why i say the government is taking legal action. and because there's criminal investigation there's a criminal investigation ongoing, can't any further. >> labour leader sir keir starmer described the scandal as a shocking disgrace from top to bottom. >> every day he goes past, bottom. >> every day he goes past , there >> every day he goes past, there are more questions that need to

be answered. there's now suggestions there was early private contact with members of the cabinet that may have started this unhappy story in the first place, so the government needs to come clean. it needs to make a statement about that. this needs to be about that. but this needs to be seen in context. under this seen in its context. under this government, £7 billion was lost in dunng government, £7 billion was lost in during covid. that's in fraud during covid. that's tax payers money and if there were a labour government, we'd want that money back. junior doctors in wales will stage a 72 hour strike in the new year. >> they'll walk out from january. the 15th after voting overwhelmingly in favour of industrial action in a dispute over pay. that's as the government and british medical association reached an agreement on reforms for specialist doctors. the offer, which will be put to members , proposes an be put to members, proposes an additional pay rise of between 6.1 and 9.22. meanwhile labour is calling on the government to fund more overtime for doctors and nurses to help clear the nhs

backlog . sir keir starmer says backlog. sir keir starmer says his party would end the non—dom tax status as a way to fund it. if it wins the next general election. during a hospital visit in leeds, the labour leader also promised a reduction in wait times for nhs appointments as two men have been arrested by counter—terror police after a ulez camera was damaged in a blast. met police says a low sophistication improvised explosive device was used in south—east london on the 6th of december. no one was injured when the ied was detonated in sidcup, but vehicles and a residential property were damaged and police say a six year old man from the area is being questioned, along with a 61 year old who was arrested in horsham in west sussex . bp has paused oil sussex. bp has paused oil shipments through the red sea because of the deteriorating security situation there. houthi rebels have been targeting vessels launching drone attacks over the past week . the over the past week. the pro—hamas group says it's trying to disrupt ships travelling to

israel , to disrupt ships travelling to israel, while a number of other firms, including maersk, have also suspended traffic through the region . a new menopause drug the region. a new menopause drug to treat hot flushes has been given the green light in the uk . given the green light in the uk. the daily pill, called vjosa, alleviates symptoms by regulating body temperature . up regulating body temperature. up to 80% of women going through the menopause are affected by the menopause are affected by the symptoms, which also include disruptive sleep patterns , disruptive sleep patterns, changes to their mood and energy levels . this changes to their mood and energy levels. this is gb news changes to their mood and energy levels . this is gb news across levels. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car , on the uk on tv, in your car, on your digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now it's back to . michelle. news now it's back to. michelle. >> thanks for that. while i'm michelle dewberry keeping you company till 7:00 tonight alongside i've got a corker of a panel if i say so myself. the deputy leader of reform uk, ben habib, alongside me as his senior lecturer at queen mary university, richard johnson on

not just any lecturer, senior lecturer. i'm getting on in age. that's what we like. that's what we like. on dewbs & co writes. we like. on dewbs& co writes. you know the drill, don't you? it's not just about us three. it is very much about you guys at home well. is on your home as well. what is on your mind tonight? gb views at gb news. com is how you reach me. or you can tweet me at gb news. were paying attention to my were you paying attention to my intro? i mentioned intro? because i mentioned didn't getting didn't i? the mps getting a potential rise of 7.1. potential pay rise of 7.1. i said to you didn't i? 92,731 i'm sure i said pence in the intro. i didn't mean pence, obviously. i didn't mean pence, obviously. i meant pounds, but just shy of £93,000. that is what has got you guys talking tonight. do you think that's a fair salary for mp5? think that's a fair salary for mps? too much, too little or what? one of my viewers, paddy, says they should be paid half £1 million per year, and that way we might get some quality in parliament. they say richard says double our wages , but half says double our wages, but half the number of mps. i'll be coming on to that conversation shortly, but for now, get your

thoughts on that topic and the rest coming in. i want to talk to you, though, tonight about lady. to you, though, tonight about lady . that's very much been in lady. that's very much been in the headlines today . michelle the headlines today. michelle moran, course, she has been moran, of course, she has been under fire. we're familiar with the is all about the story by now. is all about the story by now. is all about the ppe contracts the procurement of ppe contracts dunng the procurement of ppe contracts during the circle , vip during covid. the circle, vip lanes, etc. you might have seen the youtube documentary that was put out , documentary analysis put out, documentary analysis investigation on call it what you will also , of course, was you will also, of course, was the interview as well at the weekend. wasn't there lots of people speaking out, keir starmer saying that she now shouldn't be in the house of lords. let's take listen to lords. let's take a listen to that. lords. let's take a listen to that . oh well . whilst we're that. oh well. whilst we're waiting for keir starmer and what he what his hot take is on the matter, ben habib, what do you make to it michelle mone? you make to it of michelle mone? >> i think she's >> yes. well i think she's entirely discredited herself. you know, who lies is for you know, anyone who lies is for any reason whatsoever can never be trusted again because the next time they open their mouth, you don't know whether they're telling you the truth or a lie. so she's so fundamentally, she's undermined in both

undermined her position in both in house of lords as well as in the house of lords as well as in the house of lords as well as in with her own family in society with her own family and with, frankly, anyone who interviews her on any subject. but as to the point about, you know, whether she should lose her peerage or not, i think there's another peer in the house lords who has some house of lords who has some questions answer about questions to answer about lobbying that he was doing dunng lobbying that he was doing during the pandemic. on a related very similar kind of related but very similar kind of issue. you know , for the issue. you know, for the provision of coronavirus loans to greensill, a company of which he was a director and from which he was a director and from which he would have benefited greatly if those loans had been made. and an activity. lobbying is a former prime minister, an activity had said activity that he had said himself. i'm talking about, david. unacceptable well, i'm just i want to see if viewers know who i'm talking about. but this man has just been elevated having during having been castigated during the greensill scandal for want of a better word, he's been elevated to the house of lords , elevated to the house of lords, put above the mps and given one of the highest offices in the country. so when sunak says he

takes michelle mone incredibly seriously, i have to doubt him. why would you elevate david cameron to the house of lords when he himself has some really serious questions to answer about his behaviour during lockdowns , and this is lockdowns, and this is symptomatic of the conservative party. michelle mone is one example. i think matt hancock had a shareholding in a company that was providing ppe . perhaps that was providing ppe. perhaps richard knows more detail about that than i do, but they're all seemingly at it and but should michelle mone lose her peerage , michelle mone lose her peerage, i don't think we'll see her in the house of lords again. i think shame will prohibit her. well, you say that visiting that, rishi sunak. that, you say rishi sunak. >> um , takes michelle mone >> um, takes michelle mone seriously . what? you're meaning seriously. what? you're meaning there he apparently is saying there is he apparently is saying that he takes the scandal seriously. michelle mone basically responded back basically responded and hit back on to that, saying what on twitter to that, saying what is sunak talking about? i is rishi sunak talking about? i was honest with the cabinet office, government and the office, the government and the nhs with them. nhs in my dealings with them. they all knew about my involvement from the very beginning. very beginning. she's been very active today. she's active on twitter today. she's

saying does rishi saying things like does rishi sunak profit from the sunak stand to profit from the moderna covid vaccine during the pandemic? >> you can't believe a thing, she says now all it goes. >> let's listen to keir starmer there. let's uh, because to your point let's listen. point there, let's listen. >> i think this is a shock. fing disgrace from top to bottom . but disgrace from top to bottom. but this needs to be seen in its context, not under this government. £7 billion was lost in fraud during covid. i don't think she should be in the lords. i think the government should be held to account for this. who started the conversations with her in the first place is a question that the government now needs to answer . answer. >> like richard , your thoughts? >> like richard, your thoughts? >> like richard, your thoughts? >> well, i think that the words that clement attlee said to the academic harold laski, a period of silence on your part, would be welcome . it's one that i be welcome. it's one that i think should apply to michelle mone. i thought her interview was was pretty politically catastrophic in terms of the substantive points. i think there are two issues here. one is about what what happened dunng is about what what happened during covid in terms of

procurement government procurement and government contracts and, and to take to take one on the sympathetic side. for one moment, the government was faced with the choice between speed and due diligence. now it should it should try to do as much due diligence as it can in that question of speed. but if we had a system that was had so much red tape that the government wasn't acting quick enough, we'd also the also have criticism of the government that's the government there. that's the kind thing that the covid kind of thing that the covid inquiry really should be unpicking. not clear me unpicking. it's not clear to me that that's really what that that's exactly really what the inquiry is focusing the covid inquiry is focusing on. it doing a good on. but if it was doing a good job, that's the kind of thing it would look at. as michelle would look at. as for michelle mone's be in mone's case, should she be in the or not? it's the lords or not? it's interesting to me how our interesting to me how how our our standards have changed. perhaps a way for the perhaps in a in a way for the better. sense of better. a stronger sense of standards . back better. a stronger sense of standards. back in better. a stronger sense of standards . back in there standards. back in 2009, there was the cash for influence scandal in the house of lords, with lord taylor of blackburn and lord truscott , who were and lord truscott, who were accused in the case of lord taylor of um. this was a sting from the sunday times, but

soliciting £100,000 to ask questions in the house of lords and lord truscott was accused of soliciting £70,000 to ease the way for lobbyists . now, in that way for lobbyists. now, in that case, those two members of the house of lords were only suspended for six months and then went back to their jobs. lord truscott is still a member of house of lords today. of the house of lords today. lord has passed away and lord taylor has passed away and even you had peers even in 2009, you had peers saying that that was too harsh a punishment. they should be allowed not speak. allowed to attend but not speak. was was the was the argument. so our standards have changed. we're tougher now on our we're a bit tougher now on our politicians. probably as a result those of expenses result of those kind of expenses scandals. that's not scandals. and maybe that's not so a thing. so bad a thing. >> well, michelle mone apparently made million. it apparently made 66 million. it leaves 100,000 looks, you know , leaves 100,000 looks, you know, decidedly unambitious. >> hold on. because she she would say that she didn't make i mean, there's no flies on me. i've watched the documentary on the interview. she would say if she was sitting here today, that she was sitting here today, that she didn't directly make anything at all. this trust that was up, is in her

was set up, which is in her husband's name, got around about £60 million and she indirectly , £60 million and she indirectly, if he passes away or gets divorced or whatever it was, she would then indirectly benefit. that's what she would say if she was. do you believe her, michelle? >> because she has admitted she's a liar. do you believe that declaration ? that declaration? >> well, i don't know the ins and outs of the formations that she's got set up and the financial affairs and all the rest of it. somebody needs to be asking serious questions to asking some serious questions to get the bottom of that. um, get to the bottom of that. um, but at the end of the day, um, you do make profit you know, people do make profit in business. oh absolutely. and people made an astronomical amount of profit off the back of covid. so, for example, i cannot help but think of companies like pfizer. i mean, the billions that they made in profit off the back of the vaccine. and i am not suggesting wrongdoing before anyone gets upset. i'm merely suggesting that there were a lot of people testing companies. you had so many people that were making a small fortune . so then

making a small fortune. so then for me, there is a question of is it immoral to make profit off a problem? >> well, i don't think making profit is immoral. whether you're if you're profit hearing at the expense dramatic expense of a vulnerable entity, in this case, the british state during a time of need, then you've got to do some very serious introspection about your own moral compass. um, but michelle mone denied the fact that she had any relationship with medpro, that her husband had any relationship with medpro and that's my problem with michelle mone is she has now admitted that she lied. so you can't believe anything else she says. and i just want to come back to the point that actually keir starmer i was going starmer made sorry, i was going to it to richard. to attribute it to you, richard. but he made a very good point, which i'd forgotten that lord agnew a agnew resigned. he did as a minister the treasury in minister of the treasury in early because obvious early 2022 because the obvious this fraudulent abuse of the coronavirus loan scheme , he was coronavirus loan scheme, he was calling it like schoolboy errors and stuff like that. >> he was saying about and the

ineffectiveness and the seeming lack of appetite , uh, to try and lack of appetite, uh, to try and kind of get on top of that. and can i just say one more thing before we go? we keep hearing we go before we bring richard back in. >> we keep hearing jeremy hunt hasn't got enough latitude to make tax cuts, but they spend money like billyo, like it's being i mean, they being printed. i mean, they do actually just the actually print it just for the sake spending but, you sake of spending it. but, you know, 500 million to the french for the borders. for not doing the borders. another 200 million last year, 300 to rwanda, billions 300 million to rwanda, billions in and could go on and in cop 28. and i could go on and on. >> it could go on and on. we'd still be sitting here a 7:15 with him, reeling out all of the, uh, spending. >> anyway, richard, i just >> but anyway, richard, i just just quickly, i mean, the just to say quickly, i mean, the reality is michelle and reality is that michelle and michelle particular michelle mone's particular case, her shot. michelle mone's particular case, her traditionallyt. michelle mone's particular case, her traditionally the house >> and traditionally the house of lords was a was a self—regulating body before the 2009 scandal, i believe the last time that a member of the house of lords was suspended was dunng of lords was suspended was during the english civil war, and so normally it was seen that members of the house of lords had a bit of self—respect and

dignity and would remove themselves from proceedings. now one might say she taken one might say she has taken a leave absence from the house leave of absence from the house of she may want to of lords. she may want to consider making a permanent of lords. she may want to consicof making a permanent of lords. she may want to consicof absence a permanent of lords. she may want to consicof absence thata permanent of lords. she may want to consicof absence that is)ermanent of lords. she may want to consicof absence that is nowanent of lords. she may want to consicof absence that is now nowt leave of absence that is now now a of the house of lords. a reform of the house of lords. that's happened the last that's happened in the last decade so, when people decade or so, when people can actually leave before, once actually just leave before, once you're in, it's like hotel california. you in, california. once you were in, you never leave. now you you could never leave. now you can. i think she should can. and i think she should consider her position. >> you felt that you'd >> but if you felt that you'd done nothing wrong, i'm just i'm playing devil's advocate, putting if you putting the other side. if you felt if you michelle mone, felt if you as michelle mone, you done nothing you felt you'd done nothing wrong were determined wrong and you were determined and to. i mean, because i'm looking at social and and to. i mean, because i'm loo thei at social and and to. i mean, because i'm loo the rest social and and to. i mean, because i'm loo the rest of social and and to. i mean, because i'm loothe rest of it)cial and and to. i mean, because i'm loothe rest of it and and and to. i mean, because i'm loothe rest of it and she's and all the rest of it and she's really kind of going for it, she's after years of she's decided after years of being silent, she's decided the woman is silent no more. so she obviously thinks she's innocent. she her name so she wants to clear her name so she'll sitting there she'll be sitting there thinking, should thinking, well, why should i resign? thinking, well, why should i resii n? thinking, well, why should i resii mean, if she genuinely >> i mean, if she genuinely believes knows that did believes and knows that she did nothing wrong and she feels that believes and knows that she did notiname rong and she feels that believes and knows that she did notiname can and she feels that believes and knows that she did notiname can be d she feels that believes and knows that she did notiname can be truly feels that her name can be truly vindicated, then that might be. >> might be >> that might be a consideration. on on the consideration. but on on the other i kind of other hand, i think kind of hanging around, thought the

hanging around, i thought the way conducted the way that she conducted the interview, i over the weekend, you her, defiance , um, you know, her, her defiance, um, bordered on having a clothier really is not beneficial to her reputation. it's certainly not beneficial to the reputation of the upper chamber as well. >> well, i'll give you guys the final say on that. if you were accused, by the way, though, of making money from the making all this money from the taxpayer, you taxpayer, would you do documentaries, pr interviews taxpayer, would you do dwhatever ries, pr interviews taxpayer, would you do dwhatever people pr interviews taxpayer, would you do dwhatever people want nterviews taxpayer, would you do dwhatever people want toerviews taxpayer, would you do dwhatever people want to callrvs , whatever people want to call them, head toe in them, dressed head to toe in designer gear in huge mansion. designer gear in a huge mansion. um, i don't know. sometimes i think people do it. perhaps help themselves. anyway. look, speaking of of lords, speaking of the house of lords, uh, , everyone there uh, get this, everyone there could see there daily allowance rise from £342 to £366. these peers, if they're planned 7.1% pay peers, if they're planned 7.1% pay rises. go ahead . mps pay rises. go ahead. mps potentially getting a 93% sorry, 93% pay rise chance would be a fine thing and £93,000 pay after their 70. uh, well, you fine thing and £93,000 pay after their 70. uh, well , you know their 70. uh, well, you know what? i'm just asking a simple

question. do mps get paid enough 7 question. do mps get paid enough ? do they need more? if so , how ? do they need more? if so, how much more? and also if keir starmer gets elected, do you think that the uk is going to be like venezuela? basically for 20 years? really tell me

winston churchill. you're listening to gb news radio show. >> hello. thank you for being a big part of gb news >> we'd like to wish you and your loved ones a christmas season full of comfort and joy, as well as a peaceful and prosperous new year. >> from our family to yours, we are proud to be your channel. >> merry christmas, happy christmas , merry christmas, christmas, merry christmas, happy christmas, merry christmas , merry christmas, merry christmas here on gb news the people's channel. >> merry christmas . oh yes merry >> merry christmas. oh yes merry christmas i'm in the christmas spirit. >> are you. are you excited about the festive season or not? i am michelle dewberry with you

till 7:00 tonight. deputy leader of the reform uk party, ben habib alongside me and senior lecturer at queen mary university, richard johnson. lots.i university, richard johnson. lots. i want to get into with you guys tonight. i also imminently this is the thing that you guys really are getting in touch with me tonight. mps page do you think it should be increased now? 7.1% is the figure it would take their salary up to just shy of £93,000. good value, enough money, not enough. you get in touch and you tell me you're not holding back. i can tell you i'll come to that in a second. but speaking about michelle moran, basically who yvonne says perhaps basically to perhaps it's time basically to get the whole house of get rid of the whole house of lords. really off the back of michelle mone, really ? and what michelle mone, really? and what was your second chamber be? uh, get in touch, yvonne, and tell me, says, basically me, john says, basically the government they government have panicked. they just nilly . just bought stuff willy nilly. uh, just there and she uh, she was just there and she took um, the face of took advantage. um, the face of vip greed says richard sackur. i doubt that she will be the last.

david says there's many peers who are corrupt , david says there's many peers who are corrupt, but. david says there's many peers who are corrupt , but. oh, not who are corrupt, but. oh, not much love for the house of lords. now, i can tell you, jordan peterson, many of you will be familiar with him. i quite like him. i've got to confess, if you're not familiar with him, you're thinking who she's is the she's talking about is the canadian psychologist. very canadian psychologist. how very high this country, high profile in this country, i have to say. anyway, he's been speaking he did? um speaking out. he did? um interview and interview with the telegraph and he's if we he's basically saying if we elect starmer in the next elect keir starmer in the next election, britain basically will be track to be venezuela for be on track to be venezuela for the next 20 years. you know , a the next 20 years. you know, a thing or two, um, about the labour party. in fact, uh, you've got a book coming out imminently about the labour party. what do you think to this, uh, suggestion? >> i thought these comments were absurd . absurd. >> and, i mean, if you look at keir starmer, keir starmer is trying to approximate as close as he can the playbook of the new labour years. and tony blair, he won't even touch policies that ed miliband was willing to entertain. like a

mansion tax. his thoughts on the top rate of tax is not to even restore it to what it was under gordon brown, or to explore reintroducing a banker's bonus tax. the idea that keir starmer is some kind of far left leader for is for the birds. he's a pretty moderate social democrat at best, and he's imposing on his shadow cabinet very strict spending rules through his shadow chancellor rachel reeves, and so this is not going to be a particularly economically radical government. and i think that this whatever jordan peterson might know about about psychology, i think it shows he doesn't know a great deal about british politics. >> ooh, harsh . harsh. do you >> ooh, harsh. harsh. do you agree with him, ben? well i don't, i'm afraid. >> i think richard is an incredibly , um, cerebral and incredibly, um, cerebral and well articulated young man . but well articulated young man. but i think you're completely wrong about keir starmer, because keir starmer is . is he? he has no

starmer is. is he? he has no yardsticks by which he is. but ideologically driven. keir starmer is reacting just like rishi sunak , to every 24 hour rishi sunak, to every 24 hour news cycle in order to try and promote his own popularity . and promote his own popularity. and i would say the only criticism i've got of jordan peterson is that he thinks that we need a labour party in order for the country to become like venezuela. actually the tories have done unbeliev damage in the last years. look at the last 13 years. look at the symptoms of socialism. what are they ? they are very large state they? they are very large state borrowing . we've got that very borrowing. we've got that very high taxes . we've got that post high taxes. we've got that post world war ii high inflation out of control, where we kind of had that that isn't that an economy that isn't growing , our economy isn't growing, our economy isn't growing, our economy isn't growing on gdp per capita growing on a gdp per capita basis. actually shrinking . basis. it's actually shrinking. uh, nation state in turmoil, uh, a nation state in turmoil, pubuc uh, a nation state in turmoil, public sector not working. the labour market is broken . 6 labour market is broken. 6 million people unemployed on benefits. what we've had since tony blair took office is 25 years of progressive socialism,

hollowing out the nation state, not making policies for british national interest, not promoting aspiration over dependency , and aspiration over dependency, and instead going for wealth redistribution over wealth creation . we've had 25 years of creation. we've had 25 years of it and most of government spending has been sustained through borrowing. so so now, for example , we spend twice as for example, we spend twice as much on serving our government's interest bill than we do on our military defence spending . this military defence spending. this country is careering into an existential . country is careering into an existential. um, uh exisng racial threat, which is going to result in the end , as suella result in the end, as suella braverman put it, of the united kingdom. we're already heading in that direction. we need a significant change in economic, social, uh, cultural policy from the government if we are to save the government if we are to save the united kingdom. and there's only one party that can deliver that, and that is reform uk gets it in there is plug. >> come on richard.

>> come on richard. >> very good. look the reality is that what we have had since actually even before the 90s i would say going back since the 70s is a series of governments that aren't willing to take industrial strategy seriously and actually one of the benefits of leaving the european union is that the tools of making industrial strategy now rest with the british government and my encouragement to keir starmer would be to be bolder on those issues. >> and what that means really is for keir starmer to think about how to use public procurement in a way that promotes economic growth in different parts of the country perhaps providing, uh, country, perhaps providing, uh, tax incentives for businesses to expand or invest in, say, you know, the wirral or doncaster, rather than clumping in the south east. if you get that kind of industrial strategy correct, you will not only help to resolve some of the cost of living and living standards crisis that we face in this country, but also the housing crisis, because part of the problem we have is that the

south housing crisis is south east's housing crisis is the side of the rest of the the flip side of the rest of the country's crisis . and if country's jobs crisis. and if you good, stable and you get good, stable and attractive outside of attractive employment outside of the south east, then that will help to rebalance economy. help to rebalance the economy. but you need an active but you need you need an active government to do that. >> do you think we've got an active you tell active government? you tell me at uh, we need a pay at home, uh, do we need a pay rise for is that the thing rise for mps? is that the thing that we need to fix some of the words in this country? right. get this. everybody um. it's been suggested today that mps could potentially get a 7.1% pay rise. that would see them. are you sitting down? are you sitting comfortably? everyone. it could push their earnings up. ready? 9 to £2731. lodz. we're talking about michelle michelle mahon. earlier on those guys could see their daily allowance rise from £342 to 366. what do you make to this. >> well um , just going back to >> well um, just going back to the one of the emails that you got at the outset, which you read at the outset of the show about someone would double the

salaries of mps. so we got good mps in principle. i agree with that. if you pay peanuts , you that. if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. and at the moment we have a parliament infested with monkeys . but when you've with monkeys. but when you've got monkeys , what you don't do got monkeys, what you don't do is give them a stonking wage rise and i did a quick 80 odd grand a year in peanuts. >> i did it, i did it. >> is it what about the salary that mps were talking about? the principle i was talking about the principle of doubling salaries in order to attract really calibre people. really high calibre people. but i did quick bit googling i did a quick bit of googling before i came on in 2010. the average mp salary was £67,000 a yeah average mp salary was £67,000 a year. the average salary now is going to be 92,000. that's a 41% increase in wages since 2010. since this conservative government came to office, a band five nurse is wages has gone up from 27,000 to 35,000. that's a 25% increase. so the mps are way ahead of a band.

five nurses is a nurse who's had seven years experience and so experienced nurses have had much less increment in their wages than the bunch of monkeys who've delivered this country to the point of existential threat that we were discussing in the last segment. and i wouldn't give this lot a penny in pay rise. i would eject all of them from parliament. >> hang on, because i don't mean to be rude, but you ran for election. yeah so then if you was elected, you would be part of this kind of monkey low rent. well, i would be the exception . well, i would be the exception. >> would be the exception. >> i would be the exception. they say that. >> i would be the exception. theand say that. >> i would be the exception. theand trustthat. >> i would be the exception. theand trust me, richard, where >> and trust me, richard, where are you on it? uh, i mean, i don't think that mps need a pay increase, and i very much sympathise with the point that we've living we've had a cost of living crisis where wages have stagnated rest the country. >> but there are two issues here. so one is that the reason this is happening is because mps have own on have tied their own hands on this. the expenses this. after the expenses scandal, set up ipso, scandal, they they set up ipso, which sets the salaries for mps and so in effect, this was meant to depoliticise mps pay. it's

not actually resolved that issue at all. and so i think maybe they need to think about whether they need to think about whether the system they set up works. the second thing i'd say is that while i don't think mps need to be paid more, i think that their staff be paid more and staff should be paid more and i think mps should have more staff. we look other staff. if we look at other legislatures around the world, our mps offices are quite small in terms of the number of staff they have and the staff who are working, including for mps both in their constituencies and in london, quite london, are actually quite poorly that means poorly paid. and that means people don't stay in those roles. people don't build experience and it's usually just a i mean, there are some people who do stay, but it's in spite of the pay, because of it. of the pay, not because of it. and the people who and they're the people who actually the constituents. and they're the people who act|wey the constituents. and they're the people who act|we can't the constituents. and they're the people who act|we can't be he constituents. and they're the people who act|we can't be that»nstituents. and they're the people who act|we can't be that bad:uents. and they're the people who act|we can't be that bad because, >> we can't be that bad because, uh, used to be the case that uh, it used to be the case that so many people that were elected, you know, they couldn't wait families in wait to get their families in there some of these and there in some of these jobs and all of it. so it can't all the rest of it. so it can't be as bad. >> used to employ their wives and their sisters and their nieces. yeah.

>> also they would often say >> but also they would often say that was because were there that was because they were there for example, their were for example, their spouses were the be the only people who would be willing for those hours the only people who would be wilthat for those hours the only people who would be wilthat pay. for those hours on that pay. >> yeah, it's a bit convenient. >> yeah, it's a bit convenient. >> do you agree with that? >> do you agree with that? >> i don't don't think >> no, i don't i don't think i don't think it's right. that kind of nepotism just never. i'm not defending system. not defending that system. >> i'm saying you >> but what i'm saying is if you don't pay staff properly, don't pay mps staff properly, then the kind of then that's the kind of incentive that's created. then that's the kind of inc

single individual or even a small team around them to get around that number of people. >> i want to bring you guys into this conversation. so many of you have been in touch you tonight have been in touch with one. uh, ken with me on this one. uh, ken says you're increase their says yes, you're increase their pay says yes, you're increase their pay considerably, but scrap their and expenses . pay considerably, but scrap their and expenses. um, their perks and expenses. um, peter says pay mps on achievement only. he says no salary at all. uh, but incentivise them instead on their achievements. he says, also, while you're at it, half the number of mps and scrap the house of lords. uh, well, you're certainly radical in your thoughts. i give you that. thoughts. i will give you that. and what we need is and sometimes what we need is indeed radical thinking. but is that solution? performance that the solution? performance related ? uh, tina related pay for mps? uh, tina again, them the pay rise, again, give them the pay rise, but get rid of all of their allowances. nicky why is allowances. nicky says. why is no one focusing on their massive pensions? get they pensions? uh, that they get they do a pay rise. you guys do not need a pay rise. you guys have got a lot to say on that topic. i can tell you. i'll bnng topic. i can tell you. i'll bring you in again after the break, but i also want to ask you, what do you think this, um, proposed now new rule where

£38,700. that's what you'd have to earn if you want to come and live here and bring your loved one. is it fair, harsh or cruel? you me

moment. i mean, of course there is of course ways to make it happen through raf flights . happen through raf flights. >> hi there michelle dewberry with it all seven ben habib remains alongside me, as does richard johnson . an um, you guys richard johnson. an um, you guys are really talking tonight about the mps potential pay rise, taking them up to, uh, just shy of 93 grand a year. eric says if you're going to start tweaking things, can we suggest a rule that no mp should be allowed in under the age of 45? what do you think to that? he's saying you should have experienced life and have all the have achievements and all the rest of it under your belt before you get in? um, lots of people are saying this suggestion as well. performance related pay that coming related pay that is coming through thick fast . but what through thick and fast. but what about fact essentially about the fact that essentially they could lose their job in five time they don't do five years time if they don't do a job? is that enough for

a good job? is that enough for you or not? if not, then tell me what would you do? how would you measure them? who get to measure them? who would get to decide kind of decide what those kind of yardsticks like? get yardsticks would look like? get in and me your in touch and give me your thoughts that. now thoughts on that. now as i speak, there a protest taking speak, there is a protest taking place. let's be honest, when is there protest these days there not a protest these days about this about something? anyway, this one is outside of the home office. stop the hate protest. apparently called , um, apparently it's called, um, arguing apparently the arguing that apparently the immigration rhetoric in this country is too hateful. is it? it's one of the reasons that they're talking about this is because you'll be familiar now with fact that if you want with the fact that if you want to bring your loved ones into the , you'd have to be the country, you'd have to be earning £38,700. is this cruel or is it fair ? or is it fair? >> it's absolutely right. it's a bafic >> it's absolutely right. it's a basic minimum. why should you be entitled to bring your loved one to the united kingdom? because you seek work here. if you seek work here and you know that you're not entitled to bring your loved one, well, you make that decision knowing what the outcome going be. there outcome is going to be. there

are , millions of are thousands, millions of people the globe who people across the globe who emigrate for work , leave emigrate purely for work, leave their entire family where where it is they emigrate from, and send money back to their family. it's their choice. we've got to stop infantilizing people . all stop infantilizing people. all we've got to allow people to make their own decisions. if they choose to come to this country. and these are our rules, and they're made for very good reason, we've got good reason, because we've got pressure our infrastructure, pressure on our infrastructure, we've got difficult. ortiz providing care , providing medical care, education, housing, all the rest of it. um, why why why should we somehow bend over backwards to welcome their loved ones? it's their choice . it's. they don't their choice. it's. they don't have to come and work here. what about if you made that choice? >> uh, with the rules as they was now. and now you've got this new higher earnings limit and your visas perhaps for your visas perhaps up for renewal because there's renewal again, because there's still a question mark about whether not those people whether or not those people would by this. would be impacted by this. >> visa is up for >> well, if your visa is up for renewal, then you're to renewal, then you're subject to the and you would

the new rules. and you would have to either go home and be with you or stay with the one you love, or stay here and continue to earn the wages that you were. you were earning. but don't. don't wages that you were. you were earnirthisyut don't. don't wages that you were. you were earnirthis rule don't. don't wages that you were. you were earnirthis rule applies don't wages that you were. you were earnirthis rule applies to n't think this rule applies to people who are already here under regime. it's under an existing regime. it's only new visas or only for new visas or potentially renewal of visas. >> so it's basically a choice, says ben habib. do you agree? well there's been well i think there's been a peculiar of british peculiar kind of british exceptionalism the discussion exceptionalism in the discussion about requirements about what about requirements for visas. for spousal visas. >> very common around the >> it's very common around the world countries to set some world for countries to set some kind of set of set of restrictions is often to do with the earnings . so if you go to if the earnings. so if you go to if you're a non eu citizen moving to germany, there are salary restrictions. you move to restrictions. if you move to australia or canada or the united states, there are salary restrictions. other countries put kinds of extra put all kinds of extra restrictions we don't. restrictions that we don't. denmark are integration denmark there are integration requirements , danish language requirements, danish language requirements. to sign requirements. you have to sign a form saying you'll raise your children danish language. >> good for the danes, good for the danes. >> good for the danes, good for the so nes.just this in >> so i'm just putting this in comparative perspective and just saying it's not saying that this is it's not unusual for countries to say there is salary threshold for

there is a salary threshold for spouses. now, the next question is government have is should the government have the right to set that? because at the moment we're hearing campaign ers and charities taking this to the european court of human rights, to say that this the government should not be allowed to set set this. i think that's i think that's probably incorrect . but then the probably incorrect. but then the question is on this specific threshold , is the amount too threshold, is the amount too high. and that's a political question. but i think that if i'm to read the politics of this, to a certain extent, it seems to me that the government was recently stung by these record high net immigration figures . and this is a way for figures. and this is a way for the government to look like it's acting tough and sounding tough, and it will be tough in some circumstance. but there are also huge exemptions that the government is likely to carve out of this of the final program here. and so whether this actually makes that much of a difference in the overall numbers is quite a different

matter. and so again, this i think is rather could be rather performative of this government, which would sum up, i think its general approach to, to immigration policy. >> well, if they do push ahead with these legal challenges, of course it will be that sentence that you hear often about the right to family life. uh, from the echr , potentially there'll the echr, potentially there'll be exploration under that about whether or not i mean, that's extraordinary. >> that is extraordinary that people can even think this is a breach of human rights. it's entirely within the individual's decision making power to decide not to come to the united kingdom, to stay with their loved ones. it's not an inalienable human right to come to the united kingdom and work here. that's a choice. and if you make that you you make that choice, you have to rules. i'm to live with our rules. i'm afraid. but can i just. you made afraid. but can i just. you made a very good point in the previous segment levelling previous segment on levelling up strategy industrial strategy strategy and industrial strategy that government to that the government needs to have perhaps for have tax breaks, perhaps for areas tax to areas which need tax breaks to attract investment . um, the same

attract investment. um, the same appues attract investment. um, the same applies to the labour market. we don't have joined up thinking on the labour market. the median wage in this country is 33 £34,000 a year. the fact that the minimum wage to get a visa was struck at £26,000 a year, 25% below the median wage , was 25% below the median wage, was undermining the british worker, was putting the british worker into competition with cheap, unskilled old imports. that is no way to promote british national interest. >> and that's one of the things that's really struck me as odd, because one of the key things that labour said as well, in terms of skills, uh, shortage list when you hire people at list when you can hire people at a discounted rate, came a discounted rate, labour came straight they? straight out, didn't they? said we'd rid of we'd immediately get rid of that, never really that, which i've never really understood. why would tories have it policy for such have had it as a policy for such a time? anyway? what do you a long time? anyway? what do you make to it all our immigration policy. is it inhumane? is it cruel basically cruel or is it basically a choice? and you it, choice? and if you like it, come. and if you don't, don't. where do you stand it all? where do you stand on it all? get in touch and let me know after the break. i want to talk to you about use of stop and

to you about the use of stop and search without suspicion section 60 it title. you 60 to give it its title. do you think it's to do think basically, it's time to do away that practice? is it away with that practice? is it discriminating people , discriminating against people, or is it basically trying to keep you tell me

hello there. michelle dewberry till seven. deputy leader of reform uk ben habib, alongside my senior lecturer at queen mary university, richard johnson . university, richard johnson. there too, tony says michelle, my grandson, has fallen in love with a brazilian girl and they plan to marry next year. this salary increase, the immigration policy could mean that their lives together would be ruined . lives together would be ruined. >> and i don't think that's right. if her son is a british citizen and he marries a brazilian girl, i think she'd have a right to a british passport, she? his passport, wouldn't she? as his spouse? the spouse? well no, this is the point, isn't it? >> if you're not well. yeah, actually, i hear what you're saying. if you live here already . you go. you see, . well, there you go. you see, these all the of

these are all the kind of technicalities, uh, that need to be what be ironed out. molina says. what a panel got a fantastic panel you've got tonight. she says, uh, the uk's my country ashes. but i have to say, cannot believe how much say, i cannot believe how much it has changed. she goes on to say, it's so sad and tragic . um, say, it's so sad and tragic. um, do you agree with that synopsis ? do you agree with that synopsis? let me know. let's talk, stop and search, though, shall we? because a police watchdog now has basically refused to back the use of what they call section 60. basically uh, other people call it kind of non—suspicious stop and search. a lot of people are saying that it basically discriminate s, uh, against black people because apparently black people are 12 times more likely to be stopped and searched without suspicion. uh, what do you think to that , uh, what do you think to that, ben? need to scrap these ben? do we need to scrap these section 60s? >> i mean, my being is against it, you know, authoritarian kind of approach to any form of governance, including law enforcement . but i think on this enforcement. but i think on this one issue, um , we've seen crime one issue, um, we've seen crime rise. so dramatically across the united kingdom , um, particularly

united kingdom, um, particularly in urban areas , and violent in urban areas, and violent crime, knife crime , grievous crime, knife crime, grievous bodily harm and so on. burglaries i do think that there is a place now for the police to actually have the right, and they should be supported in it to stop people . i mean, no to stop people. i mean, no policeman is actually going to stop you unless they've got a suspicion they're stopping you because they think there's something going or you're in something going on or you're in a the vicinity a crime a in the vicinity of a crime that's taken place. that's just taken place. >> authorises >> session 60 authorises police to people and to stop and search people and vehicles suspicion for vehicles without suspicion for offensive instruments offensive weapons or instruments considered a considered dangerous in a specific neighbourhood. for a set period. where are you on it? yes and i think this is the key thing that the this section 60 was, is from legislation from 1994, which was designed really to address the specific issue about , uh, raves to address the specific issue about, uh, raves and parties and large and large gatherings . large and large gatherings. >> and there's concern that this power has now extended much further. i mean, there's one thing, you know, there's the difference , i think, between if difference, i think, between if

someone is if police are in pursuit of, uh, suspected criminal after there's been some kind of mugging or serious crime and someone fits that profile, it seems reasonable that they should be able to stop and search someone who fits that profile. but when it becomes a much greater blanket approach, in effect, a kind of citizen shakedown, then that i think can raise some serious concerns, particularly as we know that in this country we, uh, as in other countries , but in this country countries, but in this country historically, going back to the early 80s with the brixton riots and toxteth, that there was a sense that this kind of authority for the police could be abused . so when it's used, it be abused. so when it's used, it has to be, i think, in a much clearer and targeted way. and part of the problem is they're using that wasn't using legislation that wasn't really intended for this purpose . so they want to keep . and so if they want to keep using power, think the using this power, i think the legislation should clarified. legislation should be clarified. >> i must say that, you know , >> i must say that, you know, when you hear about all the knife crimes and stuff like that, that go on in this country , um, then do actually support

, um, then i do actually support the concept of stopping and searching but have the concept of stopping and searcitng but have the concept of stopping and searcit happen but have the concept of stopping and searcit happen quitet have the concept of stopping and searcit happen quite a have the concept of stopping and searcit happen quite a lotve the concept of stopping and searcit happen quite a lot ,5 the concept of stopping and searcit happen quite a lot, and seen it happen quite a lot, and i always feel like quite, um, sorry for the person that's been stopped and searched in the respect of there's no real dignity around this, this happensin dignity around this, this happens in front of absolutely everyone . and if i put myself everyone. and if i put myself into that position , i'll just into that position, i'll just wandering around, minding my own business. then this cop had business. and then this cop had just in front just grabbed hold of me in front of like , i can't even of everybody, like, i can't even cope when, you know, you go through and someone cope when, you know, you go througyou and someone cope when, you know, you go througyou and and someone cope when, you know, you go througyou and they and someone cope when, you know, you go througyou and they start;omeone stops you and they start rummaging through your your suitcase everyone. suitcase in front of everyone. i find mortifying and find that mortifying and a breach my privacy. so to have breach of my privacy. so to have that to me when i know that happen to me when i know that happen to me when i know that i've done nothing wrong, but to, don't but i just happen to, i don't know, blonde hair or be know, have blonde hair or be white or whatever the profile is of looking for. so white or whatever the profile is of must looking for. so white or whatever the profile is of must be looking for. so white or whatever the profile is of must be better,|g for. so white or whatever the profile is of must be better, uh,»r. so white or whatever the profile is of must be better, uh, more there must be better, uh, more respectful ways of doing it. >> well, mean, whole issue >> well, i mean, the whole issue of why crime is increased needs to have a holistic analysis and response to you know, we response to it. you know, we tend to knee jerk reaction and kind of come up with dictatorial responses on the whole, which is

why i said initially, i said, you know, my being would be against this because it's not the way i think. but given that knife crime is up so dramatically , uh, you know, dramatically, uh, you know, serious crime up so dramatically, something needs to be done about it. of course, the holistic response is much broader and requires an approach through the schools, through local community policing, through economic betterment, through economic betterment, through instilling in society aspiration , which has been aspiration, which has been dumbed out of it by successive governments, a whole, a whole array of policies. >> people need a sense of hope. and i think that in a lot of communities, people haven't felt that degree of hope for a very long time. and that's a lot of those points that you mentioned about education and economic opportunity . and i think that opportunity. and i think that that's something that really this kind of approach comes far too late in the process. um, and doesn't actually , uh, make us doesn't actually, uh, make us that much safer. >> mark says stop and search is a valuable tool when used

properly. i've used it for 30 years in merseyside. lots of offenders apprehended and crimes prevented as result. no crimes prevented as a result. no crimes of discrimination or anything else when done properly. uh when you say done properly, do you mean that find something? um mean that you find something? um are people called to just be randomly stopped? david says as a retired i can tell a retired officer, i can tell you, uh, there is absolutely a must using stop and search and the against crime . um, the drive against crime. um, there you go. you say about people needing help. one of my viewers has got in touch saying is ben habib issuing a 24, uh, 2024 calendar or what are you . 2024 calendar or what are you. what? yes. no >> are we off? are we off? the show's about. >> the answer, sadly, is no. >> the answer, sadly, is no. >> well, that was the viewer. there was paul. you just call. >> oh my goodness, paul, you have just quashed the herp . have just quashed the herp. >> probably not just of paul, but of a nation. i can hear all of those hearts breaking no. 2024 calendar from ben habib. what a bum. notes when that on uh. look, thank you very much, richard, for your company, ben. for guys. get what?

for yours too, guys. get what? guess the legend nigel guess what the legend nigel farage up next. do not go anywhere near knights. >> brighter outlook with boxt >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hi there. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast, it is going to turn increasingly wet in the south overnight. clearer skies developing further north, albeit with blustery showers and we've got colder air coming in as well from the northwest. but before that happens, a number of weather fronts will linger across the southern half of the uk, bringing extensive cloud and increasingly persistent rain. initially for southwest england and wales. that rain moving into the midlands , east anglia and the midlands, east anglia and the midlands, east anglia and the south and south east of england by the early hours. so a wet night to come for many, but further north we've got clear spells, especially for central and scotland where and northern scotland and where that of frost is that happens, touch of frost is possible of the wind now possible out of the wind now into the start of tuesday, we've got outbreaks of rain or showers

moving into the north and west of scotland as well as northern ireland. it's cold enough for these showers to be falling as snow the hills further snow over the hills further south. the day, south. a mild start to the day, but a wet one with outbreaks of persistent rain through the morning, eventually by morning, eventually clearing by the afternoon from the end of the afternoon from the end of the afternoon from the clear then the southeast. clear spells then follow some decent spells follow with some decent spells of sunshine for the central and southwestern the uk, southwestern parts of the uk, but showers continue but blustery showers continue further north, with those. showers also affect the northeast of scotland into wednesday. elsewhere increasing cloud and outbreaks of rain moving in the most damp weather affecting the northwest once again. brightest further southeast after a chilly start at thursday, sees very strong winds from the northwest . gales winds from the northwest. gales widely and some heavy showers . widely and some heavy showers. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> good evening. my jungle adventure is fully over. i'm back. i'm recovered. the show is back. i'm recovered. the show is back on from 7 pm. every night andifs back on from 7 pm. every night and it's from our brand new westminster studio . now. westminster studio. now. baroness michelle mone is all over the front pages today. there it is. it's a huge scandal and yet, is that the real ppe scandal? because i don't think it is . i've got to ask tonight. it is. i've got to ask tonight. also, whilst i was away, david cameron , now lord cameron, cameron, now lord cameron, became foreign secretary. but given his track record , is he given his track record, is he really fit for the job and this studio that i'm broadcasting from is named after veteran legendary broadcaster alistair stewart . so who better to join stewart. so who better to join me for talking pints than alistair himself ? all of that alistair himself? all of that after the news with sophia wenzler