d0 do you think you'll be going into christmas high fiving himself, thinking he's done a great job or not.7 and today sees the release finally . i mean, the release finally. i mean, we've only been waiting since 2018, but anyway , release for 2018, but anyway, release for schools now who have so—called gender questioning children. i can tell you now, opinion is divided on much of it, not least as to who has the final say on some of this stuff. should it be the kid, the schools or the parents and get this right.7 everybody civil servants were paid about £150 million in so—called golden goodbyes last yeah so—called golden goodbyes last year. do you reckon? now there should be a cap on how much people can receive in severance pall-7 people can receive in severance pay?if people can receive in severance pay? if so, what would that cap be? and esther rantzen has said

that she is considering assisted dying of her cancer treatment, fails . i can dying of her cancer treatment, fails. i can tell you now her comments have reignited that passionate debate about whether or not this should be legal in this country, should it ? you this country, should it? you tell me . we're going to debate tell me. we're going to debate all of that and more of this next hour. but before we get stuck into that, let's cross live to polly middlehurst for tonight's latest news headlines . tonight's latest news headlines. michelle thank you and good evening to you. >> will the top story from the newsroom tonight is that the foreign secretary says the uk will not tolerate attacks on shipping in the red sea . britain shipping in the red sea. britain is joining an international maritime coalition dubbed operation security guardian to protect ships in the area after a recent spate of attacks by houthi militants in yemen. allied with the hamas terror group . the government says much

group. the government says much of the uk's supply of liquefied natural gas is imported via these vital shipping routes, confirming that the royal navy destroyer hms diamond will be joining the new task force. lord cameron says the royal navy's president xi presence will send a strong message to those who've been targeting commercial shipping. this maritime task force that is being set up is looking for partners to help to allow that to happen , and allow that to happen, and britain is going to be one of those partners and i think italy is going to be one of those partners, too, for our selves. >> we'll be lending some of our ships to that , um, to that task. ships to that, um, to that task. and i think it's very important that there's a very clear message to the houthis in yemen who've been launching all these attacks that, you know, these attacks that, you know, these attacks will not be tolerated, and we will defend ourselves against them. and it's very important that shipping keeps moving. >> the foreign secretary now, the scottish government has announced a new tax bracket for

higher earners. it's among a package of measures set out by deputy first minister shona robison in her first scottish budget . the new 45% tax band budget. the new 45% tax band will affect those earning between £75,000 and £125,000 a yeah between £75,000 and £125,000 a year. meanwhile those earning more than that will pay 48% tax. the changes are set to raise around £15 billion for scotland s finances next year. around £15 billion for scotland s finances next year . schools s finances next year. schools are being advised to inform parents if children say they'd like to change their identity under new guidance. there's no obugafion under new guidance. there's no obligation for parents or teachers to allow students to transition their gender or to provide gender neutral facilities . the stonewall facilities. the stonewall charity has objected, saying it's legally unworkable and not in the best interests of children, but equalities minister kemi badenoch says it is fundamentally disagree with

stonewall's analysis. >> we fundamentally disagree with their facts . the cass with their facts. the cass review has shown that social transitioning is not a neutral act. it puts children on a medical pathway that can lead to irreversible medical decisions . irreversible medical decisions. the use of puberty blockers, and so on, but also something that's really important to emphasise is that just because a child doesn't conform to gender stereotypes mean that stereotypes doesn't mean that they the opposite sex. we they are the opposite sex. we shouldn't that because shouldn't assume that because a boy pink or a girl likes boy likes pink or a girl likes football, that they are of the opposite sex. >> kemi badenoch now ukraine's president has taken to the stage at his end of year news conference as his country's war with russia nears a two year mark. volodymyr zelenskyy expressing gratitude to ukraine's allies for providing financial backing and thanking his soldiers as well for their continued fighting to get ukrainian territory back . it ukrainian territory back. it comes after a top ukrainian general warned the military operation were being scaled back due to a drop off in foreign

aid. he said russia had failed in securing victory and he welcomed the decision to open eu membership talks with ukraine. >> the great path for some it may take decades . for us. mr may take decades. for us. mr well, time is nothing . well, time is nothing. >> we are sacrificing a lot . >> we are sacrificing a lot. >> we are sacrificing a lot. >> we are fighting for our independence. we are fighting for our country, for our future, the future that we choose by ourselves and not the future thatis ourselves and not the future that is chosen by the russian federation. >> an zelenskyy here, michael gove has put council planning departments on notice, saying slow approvals will not be tolerated . in a speech on tolerated. in a speech on planning reform , the housing planning reform, the housing secretary said there is resistance to some new developments in many parts of the country and he's cracking down on overly lengthy applications , with some councils applications, with some councils to be given three months to

improve or risk having their powers stripped away from them. >> where there is and has been consistent underperformance. i will act. so today i'm taking steps to deal with underperformers in the planning system, and there is no greater failure than the failure to actually have a plan in place. i am prepared to act wherever there is failure. i expect all other authorities to make sure that they have a timetable for an up to date plan in place within the same time frame, with a provided my department. >> michael gove now iceland's met office, is warning of possible gas pollution later tonight or tomorrow after a large volcano in the south—west of the country erupted last night . let's show you live night. let's show you live pictures coming to us from the reykjanes peninsula. if you're watching on television, hopefully you can see those. i don't know if we're going to be able to get them to you. sorry. the problem with them at the moment, but we have showing moment, but we have been showing you the lava you throughout the day, lava continuing that continuing to spew out of that two and a half mile long crack in earth's surface.

in the earth's surface. iceland's it iceland's government saying it doesn't pose a threat to life, but of course, naturally there are delays curious are flight delays and curious sightseers warned to sightseers are being warned to keep well away. we'll you keep well away. we'll show you those in the next hour. keep well away. we'll show you th> thanks for that, polly. well, i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company till 7:00 tonight alongside me, the journalist and author harriet sergeant and the political commentator joe phillips. sergeant and the political commentatorjoe phillips. good evening to both you . a little evening to both of you. a little bit of a ladies night tonight , bit of a ladies night tonight, isn't it? yes. rather nice. am i identify as a fella and 7:00, to balance it all up a bit, i might be michael or something. just get a little bit of a male perspective in there anyway. hello, everybody. we are with you till 7:00 tonight and you know drill. don't you? it's know the drill. don't you? it's not about us. is very not just about us. it is very much about you guys at home as

well. what's on your mind tonight ? well. what's on your mind tonight? want well. what's on your mind tonight ? want talk to well. what's on your mind tonight? want talk to you tonight? i want to talk to you about a of tonight. about a lot of things tonight. i want look back on sunak. uh want to look back on sunak. uh 2023. d0 want to look back on sunak. uh 2023. do you think ? is that a 2023. do you think? is that a good one not? and i also want good one or not? and i also want to to about the topic to talk to you about the topic that i know you will that i know many of you will have strong opinions on have very strong opinions on assisted dying, whether or not that should in this that should be legal in this country not. and of course, country or not. and of course, golden goodbyes. people get paid an sometimes golden goodbyes. people get paid an way sometimes golden goodbyes. people get paid an way out, sometimes golden goodbyes. people get paid an way out, don't sometimes golden goodbyes. people get paid an way out, don't they?etimes golden goodbyes. people get paid an way out, don't they? andes the way out, don't they? and often, i can't help often, by the way, i can't help but notice have done a terrible job whilst they were in there in the first it time now the first place. is it time now to caps then on public to put caps then on public sector pay or not? so sector severance pay or not? so all that coming your way and all of that coming your way and lots more. but for now, shall we kick off rishi sunak? at kick off rishi sunak? he is at his grilling of the year his final grilling of the year at liaison many at the liaison committee. many people call kind of like people will call it kind of like a super committee. made a super committee. it's made up of all the select committee chairpersons. uh, they get to grill i think there's grill him. i think there's a couple of times and couple of times a year. and as i said, is his last one said, this is his last one before christmas. i bet his breathing a massive sigh of relief. then it's got me wondering, well, let's remind ourselves, his five

ourselves, shall we, of his five point plan. and let's ask you a very simple question. 2023. has point plan. and let's ask you a vebeennple question. 2023. has point plan. and let's ask you a vebeen ale question. 2023. has point plan. and let's ask you a vebeen a goodestion. 2023. has point plan. and let's ask you a vebeen a goodesti0|for�*023. has point plan. and let's ask you a vebeen a goodesti0|for him has point plan. and let's ask you a vebeen a goodesti0|for him or|s it been a good year for him or not? so his five priorities do you them off top of you all know them off the top of your head by now? i hope so, uh, halving inflation, growing the economy, cut economy, reducing debt, cut waiting small budgets. waiting lists and small budgets. uh, five. pesky uh, that number five. pesky number bird, number five, that small bird, one. that one, isn't it? number five, that small bird, one thatt one, isn't it? number five, that small bird, one that really one, isn't it? number five, that small bird, one that really does, isn't it? number five, that small bird, one that really does seem it? number five, that small bird, one that really does seem to uh, that really does seem to trip him a lot. he was asked trip him up a lot. he was asked about that. certainly today. let's have a listen. >> there isn't a date >> there isn't a firm date on this because always been this because i've always been clear beginning. i said clear from the beginning. i said you'd going to the boat. you'd going to stop the boat. >> just want know we >> so i just want to know we will going until we do. will keep going until we do. >> but this is not one of these things where there's a precise date estimate date. date estimate a date. >> precise date on >> well, not a precise date on when that's going to actually happen.then when that's going to actually happen. then uh, you think happen. then uh, do you think he's good job point he's done a good job on point five the small boats? well five at the small boats? well i think it's i it's a heap think it's i think it's a heap of deceit because, okay, he has done and he said that, um, at the committee, pointed the select committee, he pointed out he's actually done out that he's actually done quite good job with the quite a good job with the albanians he's managed albanians because he's managed to albanians. to return some albanians. >> been >> and that has been a deterrent. and albanians coming here, has fallen by here, i think has fallen by about 80. so have to give

about 80. so we have to give him that. but at the actual small boats, he's desperately trying to find the equivalent deterrent and he's definitely trying to discover rwanda's as the answer. but again, as i think that lady pointed out that he can't even get he can't even get a plane at the moment. no planes will actually fly, so he can't even get a plane to take them back . get a plane to take them back. and the other point that was made in in the select committee questioning of him was they i think it was it was, uh , diana think it was it was, uh, diana johnson, dame diana johnson was going on and on about bringing down the asylum backlog . now, down the asylum backlog. now, this is something that both labour and the conservatives keep telling us is a great thing to do. but civil servants not noficed to do. but civil servants not noticed for being anti—immigrant , asian or putting their heads on the block. actually, earlier this week said came out and said that cutting the asylum backlog means that all they're doing is

just letting people just come in.then just letting people just come in. then they've suspended the face to face interview and they've replaced that with a ten page questionnaire. so you can imagine just how how how successful that is with terrorists. and serious criminals as the civil servants said joe. well, to go back to your original question about has rishi sunak succeeded? >> i have to confess to you that harriet and i, before we came on, we had check what the on, we had to check what the five were. five pages were. >> we did we gb news n i know and you know, call myself a political commentator. >> it's appalling, isn't it? um. and could remember and we could have remember the boats. have remember and we could have remember the boaeconomy have remember and we could have remember the boa economy or have remember and we could have remember the boa economy or inflation1ember and we could have remember the boa economy or inflation1emlwe the economy or inflation and we could remember waiting list. could remember nhs waiting list. well, going to go through well, i'm going to go through most of them. >> with the >> okay. all right. with the small the small boats small boat. so the small boats we're going to work our way through them. >> okay. you've got you've got a cunning i think i think cunning plan. um i think i think he's i think he was foolish. anybody foolish anybody would have been foolish to am going to stop this

to say i am going to stop this because the one thing that is guaranteed is that if the weather is favourable , all weather is favourable, all people will still try and cross the channel regardless . needless the channel regardless. needless of the deterrents and everything else, the biggest single deterrent is bad weather. um, and so that's why you get a penod and so that's why you get a period when there's no boats and some boats . and to go to some boats. and to go to harriet's point about clearing the backlog of asylum seekers , the backlog of asylum seekers, some of these people have been waiting for over two years. um, you know, they're costing the british taxpayer an absolute fortune, something like 85% of them are grant asylum. so actually , if the if the backlog actually, if the if the backlog hadnt actually, if the if the backlog hadn't been able , hadn't been hadn't been able, hadn't been building up to such high levels, those people could have been integrated into the community working , paying taxes, doing working, paying taxes, doing stuff instead of sitting there twiddling their thumbs and costing the public a fortune. so i think the backlog has been important, and the government has known about it and has watched it increase and increase

. um, so i think that's a slight red herring on this. but, you know, whether or not he can stop the boats, i don't think rwanda is going to be the great deterrent. >> i reached quite a regretful conclusion. it brings me no pleasure in suggesting this, but, um, the more i think about this, the more i talk to people about this, the i sit and about this, the more i sit and listen to different people's ideas and rest of it. ideas and all the rest of it. i actually have now concluded that i think there's only one real way that ever be able way that you would ever be able to properly those boats on to properly stop those boats on an ongoing basis, and would an ongoing basis, and that would be try deploy some be to try and deploy some so—called pushback, turn back operation, because if you if people genuinely understood, if you get on that boat, it doesn't matter who you are, doesn't matter who you are, doesn't matter what your story is or where you've come from. if you get on their qatar quickly, 100, there is no way at all you will be taken to or make it halfway or whatever it is , and end up on or whatever it is, and end up on uk shores . so it's not going to uk shores. so it's not going to happen. it's not going to

happen. it's not going to happen. well, why would you then give your money to these traffickers? >> well, the traffickers are telling you lies and i mean, they are the people that are they're telling lies. they're not telling you lies. >> these >> because when these traffickers the money, traffickers take the money, that's because most of them do get to the shores. get to the uk shores. >> they and you've >> they get in and you've just said, know, the said, you know, 85. but the point is, the one country those people, those are people are people, those are people who are seeking asylum. >> necessarily people >> that's not necessarily people who boats. well, who arrived on the boats. well, the is people seeking asylum. >> but the one country that has, i think it's actually quite used to one country that to look at the one country that has succeeded more or less has succeeded in more or less stopping migration, and that has been australia and the only way that it could do this. and i, i find it quite extra ordinary that we would have to contemplate this . but the only contemplate this. but the only way they could do this is by dropping out of all the sort of human rights legislation , the un human rights legislation, the un convention, all of that, which is what australia did , and that is what australia did, and that is what australia did, and that is the only way that you can control who comes into your country, which in itself is madness. >> well, australia did start

doing a lot of things and then dropped the more extreme things. i mean, we've had bonkers ideas from priti patel when she was home secretary about putting wave that would, you wave machines that would, you know, coming to know, repel people coming to this country. i don't know what it to the cross—channel it would do to the cross—channel ferry traffic, but i don't think it would be hugely helpful. um and lots lots of and there are lots and lots of things, but you've got to stop the leaving the french and the boats leaving the french and belgian in the first belgian coast in the first place. the problem. place. and that is the problem. >> um, but not happening. >> um, but that's not happening. doesn't how doesn't matter how many millions, many millions, how many, how many millions, how many, how many millions have we poured into france? >> how many millions, how many millions and of pounds millions and millions of pounds have in while the have we poured in while the french make the point, which i have to say, have certain have to say, i have a certain sympathy for that. >> are inviting people in. we >> we are inviting people in. we have turned ourselves such have turned ourselves into such a mean, all, um, a lure. i mean, after all, um, the these people are paying quite lot money to leave quite a lot of money to leave france to come to us. they're not staying in france. i mean, that's another thing we could look reason is, as a look at. and the reason is, as a number of french friends have told me, is because they have we have thriving market. have a thriving black market. but in france it's very difficult illegally . so

difficult to work illegally. so that's not that they want to come here and work and they want to make money. i mean, that's the whole point of coming to the uk. well, one of the things you touched upon, um, when it comes touched upon, um, when it comes to this rwanda situation, is whether not there would be whether or not there would be the available and willing the planes available and willing the planes available and willing the organisations willing to actually these flights. actually make these flights. >> that >> this is something that rishi sunak about today. sunak was asked about today. let's listen. >> w- e that no airline >> i understand that no airline is willing to actually contract with to people with government to remove people to rwanda because of reputational . is that reputational damage. is that correct? there isn't an airline that you've got lined up to remove people. i think are, remove people. i think we are, in terms timing, i'd i in terms of timing, i'd say i want get flights off as soon want to get flights off as soon as practically possible . you as practically possible. you need planes to do that. we need some planes to do that. we do, also need to be able do, but we also need to be able to pass the legislation through parliament first on the plane point, asking you point, which i'm asking you specifically about. have specifically about. do you have an airline ready go? specifically about. do you have an confident?y go? specifically about. do you have an confident? we go? specifically about. do you have an confident? we will the >> confident? we will have the ability send to ability to send people to rwanda? but there are many steps . you wouldn't expect me . again, you wouldn't expect me to commercial to comment on commercial conversations that are necessarily private.

>> what do you think to that? do you think airlines should be willing? um, of course, if everything's passed to take people to rwanda, well , i think people to rwanda, well, i think that's part of a bigger problem in this the uk, which is that in this in the uk, which is that it's that immigration. >> , illegal immigration, >> um, illegal immigration, asylum seekers is all seen as a good thing that we should all welcome them. and it's you're a nasty person. if you stand up against it and the airlines are saying, to according that, that it's reputational damage that they are going to suffer. but why should it be reputational damage ? i mean, that's so, so damage? i mean, that's so, so sad that people consider it reputational damage to actually decide who comes into the country . country. >> well, it won't be the airlines deciding who the airlines deciding who the airline country is. >> mean, they're >> it's not i mean, they're making sensible making a perfectly sensible commercial decision. this the rwanda bill has now got to go through the lords and through the committee stages. the various committee stages. i think they're being quite sensible think, sensible to sort of think, okay, well, see where it well, well let's see where it gets to before it actually becomes ohm's law. and any flights can take off. >> john says , michelle, are you >> john says, michelle, are you having even suggesting

having a laugh? even suggesting that sunak has had a good that rishi sunak has had a good year? he's achieved nothing, says are still says john. the boats are still going , uh, says john. the boats are still going, uh, inflation? says john. the boats are still going , uh, inflation? yes. it's going, uh, inflation? yes. it's gone down. but you're saying not because of anything that rishi sunak done. talking sunak has done. you're talking about the waiting list in the nhs. sky uh, you're nhs. still sky high. uh, you're saying is useless, although you do caveat and say, but the alternative is no better. um, roger says michelle, hang on, we vote for the tories. based on their 2019 manifesto, not on some random unelected pm's five pledges. please can people not forget that point? uh, ronnie says he's done an awful job. um, he says we live in herp of common sense . uh, do you, do you common sense. uh, do you, do you do you think that you're going to get common sense any time soon from anybody? it feels like, quite frankly, that is in very short supply, doesn't it? uh, graham says sunak got no uh, graham says sunak has got no intention at all of stopping mass migration . intention at all of stopping mass migration. uh, blake intention at all of stopping mass migration . uh, blake says mass migration. uh, blake says i blame a lot of this on the benefits that people receive when they get into the country. that's why, he says, people are

getting is it getting onto those boats. is it quite as simple that? i'm not quite as simple as that? i'm not sure it is. want to talk sure that it is. i want to talk to next, then about to you next, then about inflation as well. i want to ask you, you think he's done a you, do you think he's done a good job? yes. of course. inflation has halved. but what ronnie, ronnie you ronnie, was it ronnie as you said. uh, actually was that the responsibility of rishi's actions not? what actions directly or not? what about waiting list the about the waiting list in the nhs? let's it, they're nhs? let's face it, they're an absolute one of absolute mess. are you one of those millions people that those millions of people that are waiting be do you are waiting to be seen? do you sit there and feel like the nhs is getting better, or it is getting any better, or is it all frankly, mess? let's all quite frankly, a mess? let's not mention dentist . we not even mention dentist. we don't even get started on that one. to pick up on the one. so i want to pick up on the rest of those points. on his five plan. tell me in five point plan. you tell me in 2023 good year for sunak or 2023 a good year for sunak or not. i'll see you in two.

>> you're listening to gb news radio . on patrick christys radio. on patrick christys tonight, 9 to 11 pm. >> i've got a cracking show for you. after the alleged anti—white racism storm, bbc five live presenter neil arthur nick hewer has snapped back ,

nick hewer has snapped back, saying that he will never stay quiet . but saying that he will never stay quiet. but should he just shut up? plus dame esther rantzen has signed up for dignitas, but does she actually have her family support? dame esther's daughter will join me live. i'll also speak exclusively to the bloke flogging churchill's barge and we've got the liveliest paper of you anywhere on telly. patrick christys tonight, nine till 11 pm. be there . p.m. be there. >> hi there, michelle dewberry with you till seven. journalist and author harriet sergeant alongside me, political commentator to jo phillips. i'm asking you 2023. good year for sunak or not, the whole inflation thing popping up. of course i don't know. i mean, i don't think anyone out there really thinks anything to do with sunak has helped change that, have you? i've got to say. would you have wanted to be rishi sunak in 2023? because things haven't really easy things haven't really been easy when things outside things haven't really been easy withis things outside things haven't really been easy withis government's 1gs outside things haven't really been easy withis government's control,ide of this government's control, has uh, david says michelle has it? uh, david says michelle can't believe you've even just been talking about pushbacks in the he it's

the channel one. he says it's against maritime two. who against maritime law. two. who on earth would it? uh, the on earth would do it? uh, the navy, example, said that navy, for example, said that they wouldn't, and he says three push channel would push back in the channel would cause and drowning. cause deaths and drowning. essentially, thinksthat's essentially, he thinks that's a stupid i get the sense stupid idea. i get the sense from david there. well, the only way to truly stop, uh, deaths and drownings, of course, which is people want stop, is is what people want to stop, is by people getting in by stopping people getting in those boats in the first place. have got better idea of an have you got a better idea of an idea, david? you tell me what you think it would be. let's talk then. you on that talk nhs then. are you on that waiting list? what you think? waiting list? what do you think? has done a good job? has rishi sunak done a good job? in to him in fact, let's listen to him being questioned about this being questioned about it this afternoon lists. afternoon on on waiting lists. >> that the longest >> i'm pleased that the longest wait uh, that we have wait is, uh, that we have successfully eliminated the number people waiting two number of people waiting two years and one and a half years virtually, uh, which is good progress. overall, waiting virtually, uh, which is good prog|obviously»verall, waiting virtually, uh, which is good prog|obviously areall, waiting virtually, uh, which is good prog|obviously are impacted] virtually, uh, which is good prog|obviously are impacted by lists obviously are impacted by industrial action. >> you know what? i think you're only really, truly appreciate the mess the is the mess that the nhs is currently if you're someone currently in. if you're someone who's there, i don't who's sitting there, i don't know, around agony who's sitting there, i don't know, you around agony who's sitting there, i don't know, you needund agony who's sitting there, i don't know, you need a d agony who's sitting there, i don't know, you need a hip agony because you need a hip replacement or you've a bad replacement or you've got a bad back you're desperately

back and you're desperately waiting, think you're waiting, i think if you're in the luxurious position to be able private care, able to afford private care, this perhaps isn't that much of an but there are an issue for you. but there are millions of people still that have care that they have not had the care that they need. unacceptable . why do need. it's unacceptable. why do you think is doing job? >> no, not all. and i think >> no, not at all. and i think it's absolute shocking that, as you say, there are people in pain for years. there are people dying on await, you know, nhs waiting nothing waiting lists and nothing seems to about it. i mean, we to be done about it. i mean, we have sort of mass have one sort of mass reorganisation of the nhs after another huge amounts of money. i mean, we're fast becoming a state sort of attached to a health service. huge amounts of money put into the nhs and getting very little out of it. and it is time to really look at the nhs from the bottom up and work out what's going on in going wrong. i mean, which i have to say to his credit, uh , have to say to his credit, uh, les wes streeting is sort of making those noises because, you know, everybody complains , oh,

know, everybody complains, oh, it's going to lead to privatisation of the nhs. but at the moment there's so many people who are so desperate that they're raising money, they're borrowing money, families are coming together in order to get that hip replacement for their old mother or whatever . so it's old mother or whatever. so it's almost turning into a privatised being forced into it. >> so yeah, i think it's an utter shambles. and i agree with harriet. i think wes streeting, the labour shadow health secretary, has been brave enough to about something which to talk about something which the labour party has. it's always traditionally you always been traditionally you mustn't criticise nhs. mustn't criticise the nhs. nobody's criticising nobody's actually criticising the who work in the nhs . the people who work in the nhs. but you got to say it's no but you have got to say it's no good. just keep pumping billions and billions of pounds in it. if you can't get an appointment to see your gp or everything is online, how is that early stage cancer going to be diagnosed? how is that other underlying thing that you don't mention until you go out of the door going to be diagnosed ? it's going to be diagnosed? it's absolute root and branch reform , absolute root and branch reform, but we've also got to make the

country well. country healthier as well. people need to, you know, obesity is one of the biggest, biggest drains on the health service. we've got to make it easier for people and encourage people to live better , healthier lives. >> let me ask you a harsh question. be honest. i won't tell anyone the answer. do you look after yourself properly? do you do everything that you can to yourself as to keep yourself as healthy as possible ? do you the right possible? do you eat the right foods the right quantities? foods at the right quantities? do too much ? do you do you drink too much? do you smoke? i don't know. you smoke? perhaps i don't know. you get in and me, you get in touch and tell me, do you help? what you can to relieve help? do what you can to relieve the strain from the nhs. i'm interested to hear what you say about know about that. now, uh, you know what we've only been waiting since mean , uh, the day since 2018. i mean, uh, the day has happened. you've has finally happened. if you've got children, grandchildren. i would actually, you would argue, actually, if you care and care about basic reality and truth , then this is an issue truth, then this is an issue which would concern you because finally, schools have received some guidance about what on earth to do when it comes to what they're now calling gender questioning children . let me questioning children. let me just pop up on the screen just a

statement, a graphic that outlines the approach that the government would say that they have actually taken when it comes to this matter, what they would is they want to would say is they want to safeguard welfare of safeguard the welfare of children cautious children with a cautious approach, ensure that parents are involved in decisions about their children's lives, protect single—sex spaces such as toilets, showers and changing rooms. biological rooms. confirm that biological sex is fundamentally important when it comes to fairness and competitive sport , and confirm competitive sport, and confirm that is no general duty to that there is no general duty to allow a child to socially transition. that last one, if you ask me, is a very key one. uh, harriet, where are you on this? >> well, i'm absolutely for this. i mean, finally, now, this isn't law. it's just guidelines. but finally, got some but finally, we've got some compassionate common sense. uh advice to schools. but what's so extraordinary to me is that we have needed to get compassionate and common sense advice. and that this seems to be the position that became so extreme in schools that we've had to have this . i mean, it was so have this. i mean, it was so extreme that the idea that

parents should be involved in decisions that were going to have a long terme impact on their children's physical and emotional and mental well—being, was thought bizarre, that the idea that that children, that boys who've gone through puberty should be playing sport with young, with girls was thought young, with girls was thought you know, that was thought bizarre . if you were against bizarre. if you were against that and i think we have to remember in all of this that we're dealing with teenagers and teenagers love to try different things out. they love to experiment , things out. they love to experiment, and they things out. they love to experiment , and they love experiment, and they love sometimes to experiment to dangerously and be too wild . but dangerously and be too wild. but as adults, our job is to make as adults, ourjob is to make sure that they experiment safely. so that, for example, we don't allow young people to dnnk don't allow young people to drink or go into nightclubs until they're 18. we don't allow them to have sex till they're 16. so why are we allowing them to take these extraordinary decisions that are going to have such impact for the rest of

their life without a lot of thought and safeguarding? joe >> well, i can't really see why this, um , guidance has been this, um, guidance has been delayed for such a long time because it's pretty much common sense, and most of it is what good schools are doing anyway. good um, school leaders will be having a conversation with their pupils and when appropriate , pupils and when appropriate, with the parents. now, they may, you know, there are extreme cases where the child might be at risk for whatever reason. um, and no teacher is going to put a child at risk by doing that. but, you know, we send our children to school for a large chunk of their lives. we are giving teachers that in loco parentis. we are basically handing over the responsibility from us as parents to the teachers. so i think we need to respect and trust teachers and actually accept that most teachers and most schools do a good job and most teachers would

want to say , okay, so harriet, want to say, okay, so harriet, you want to be called harry and la la la. let's talk to mum and dad about it or whatever . la la la. let's talk to mum and dad about it or whatever. um, it's a sort of stating the bleeding obvious in a way. this thing, um, but in a way it's good clarification for teachers who are worried that they're going to be criticised or worse, pr list. um, if you give out the guidelines, it's it sort of makes it a little bit clearer for everybody, which has got to be a good thing. >> well, i can tell you now, there's a lot of people that are quite unhappy about this. for example, they example, stonewall, uh, they say this not the interests this does not put the interests of children first. it's not fit for purpose. they're saying that trans children are all a trans children are all of a sudden it as contested sudden regard it as a contested belief. they liken it to section 28, which many of you perhaps will be familiar with when it was basically said that you can't encourage. i put that in, uh , in quotes, uh, people being uh, in quotes, uh, people being gay essentially. now to join me to have this conversation, peter

tatchell, human rights campaigner, joins me. good evening to you. what do you think to this guidance that's been, uh, shared today? >> the first thing to state is that overwhelming that in the overwhelming majority cases, um, teachers , majority of cases, um, teachers, teachers, parents and children work together to discuss these issues. nearly always when a child is socially transitioning, they do so with the support of their parents and their parents, consult with the school , and the consult with the school, and the school consults with the parents. so this is a bit of a storm in a teacup over a very tiny minority of cases . the tiny minority of cases. the other point to make is that social transitioning, which is what these guidelines are talking about, does not involve hormones or surgery . it simply hormones or surgery. it simply someone adopting a preferred trans nato um, and pronoun. and maybe dressing in their trans identity. that's all. it's all reversible. it's all changeable. it's nothing that's going to affect the person for the rest of their life. and as we've heard, young people do

experiment. they try something for a few weeks or a few months. if they don't like it, they revert back. yeah but would you concede, though, if concede, though, that if a child's, michelle suddenly child's, um, michelle suddenly decides they want to be decides that they want to be called michael? decides that they want to be calium viichael? decides that they want to be calium ,ichael? decides that they want to be calium , butel? decides that they want to be calium , but they want to do all >> um, but they want to do all these to the way that these things to the way that they be called him and they appear to be called him and all it. do you all the rest of it. do you consider that that is, uh, perhaps first onto perhaps the first step onto a pathway would then be pathway that would then be medicalized? >> could be, but not >> well, it could be, but not necessarily. you know, there's plenty of examples of young people who have for a period , people who have for a period, socially transitioned . and then socially transitioned. and then after a time decided, no, it's not for them . uh, i always not for them. uh, i always believe that young people should believe that young people should be spoken to, should be questioned, that they should be counselled and supported to determine whether their feelings are genuine and whether they're sincere. but i think we should always assume that they are initially. but there's nothing wrong with asking young people and consulting with parents and i think most parents, in my experience , the trans kids, i experience, the trans kids, i know, they're parents are fully

behind them and have been liaising with the school from the get go . the get go. >> do you think they should ever be though, where be a scenario though, where a child, for example, does decide that they are uh, the that they are not? uh, the circle gender that they think they want be they are? they want to be something you think something else. do you think they be allowed to they should ever be allowed to do without parent knowledge? >> well, i think in extreme cases, if parents are far cases, if their parents are far right extremists or religious fundamentalists may subject fundamentalists who may subject their to a emotional, their child to a emotional, psychological or even physical abuse, then it would be wrong for the school to inform the parents. and there have been a small number of cases where that has happened, where young kids have been horribly abused by their parents and in some cases even attempted to take their own lives because of parental abuse . lives because of parental abuse. the parents have not accepted them as being trans. and i think in those circumstances, the school has to be cautious . and school has to be cautious. and that's what the guidelines say. the say in the guidelines do say that in these extreme circumstances , the these extreme circumstances, the child's comes first and child's welfare comes first and thatis child's welfare comes first and that is the right approach . indeed. >> i just want to ask you

quickly, because i do need to just for time reasons, i need to move on. i'm interested though. your first response there is if their parent right. their parent is far right. i mean, days, if you have mean, these days, if you have the audacity to say that you want controlled immigration, you're right. so you're deemed as far right. so the you the first notion that you present back me is if your present back to me is if your parents right, yeah, parents far right, then yeah, let's keep it a secret from them. i would actually push back on far right notion on that. this far right notion is completely and is completely overused, and i would it's complete would say it's complete nonsense. in the cases. nonsense. in most of the cases. >> may be, but again, >> well, it may be, but again, i have of examples of have heard of examples of parents have extreme parents who have quite extreme right wing views, quite intolerant, um, who have given their an absolute intolerant, um, who have given theirand an absolute intolerant, um, who have given theirand actually an absolute intolerant, um, who have given theirand actually causedisolute intolerant, um, who have given theirand actually caused the jte hell and actually caused the child great psychological and emotional damage and in one case, physically beaten case, actually physically beaten their child to try and beat out their child to try and beat out the trans from them . and that the trans from them. and that thatis the trans from them. and that that is a form of child abuse. and it's not acceptable even if the parents object to it, they don't have a right to beat their children subject them to children or subject them to psychological emotional psychological and emotional abuse. not saying that abuse. but i'm not saying that all people are like all right wing people are like that. i'm not saying that. >> okay. right. well,

>> good. okay. all right. well, we that no we completely agree that no parent absolutely um, parent should absolutely be, um, be their be battering or abusing their child so on child for any reason. so on that, thank you for your time. that's peter tatchell there. what do you guys make to that topic get in touch and topic at home? get in touch and let me know. talk shall let me know. let's talk shall we? goodbyes after the we? golden goodbyes after the break. amount of money that break. the amount of money that people service get people in the public service get paid way out the door, paid on their way out the door, often they've done often when they've done a terrible while they've been terrible job while they've been inside, quite a lot of inside, it's quite a lot of money. is time now we money. is it time now that we cap these

radio. >> hello . that michelle dewberry >> hello. that michelle dewberry till seven. harriet. sergeant joe phillips remain alongside, but let's talk gold and goodbye severance pay, shall we? uh, civil this . civil servants get this. everyone paid about £150 everyone were paid about £150 million in those gold and goodbyes last year. one particular gold and goodbye. you can give me this gold and goodbye day of the week. goodbye any day of the week. quite frankly, nearly £400,000. i mean , that's not bad. that's i mean, that's not bad. that's not bad at all, is it? if you

can get it. 238 apparently former staff received exit packages as well. over £100,000. should these , uh, goodbyes, should these, uh, goodbyes, these payments be capped? >> joe phillips i think they all need to be looked at within the context of the contracts and things. the one you're things. the one that you're referring to was a senior civil servant at the treasury who was sacked by by the briefly chancellor , kwasi kwarteng. um, chancellor, kwasi kwarteng. um, and some summarily sacked. so you know, there's anybody has got every right. they're protected their employment rights. they will have a contract , they will have contract, they will have redundancy pay. they will have, you know, payment in lieu of holidays and things like that. um, i mean, you know, i don't think know it's out of the think i know it's out of the pubuc think i know it's out of the public i don't feel as public purse. i don't feel as cross about that i do about cross about that as i do about the people who are rewarded for failure . like, you the failure. like, you know, the woman who is running the post office when all those suppose masters and mistresses were wrong , accused and sent to wrong, accused and sent to prison and prosecuted and lives ruined , who walked away with an ruined, who walked away with an honour and a pay off the water

company bosses who walk away with absolute bonuses . the with absolute bonuses. the people who screw up are, um , people who screw up are, um, health authorities and trusts who walk away and then turn up at another place. there are worse people who are rewarded for failure . so i don't think for failure. so i don't think it's as simple as saying we should put a cap on it that isn't a me. that doesn't mean anything . harriet. anything. harriet. >> i entirely agree. i mean, i think these the these people are exactly as joe said, are being rewarded for failure. they're getting a large amount of money. um, but the whole thing, i think about both civil service arts and a lot of these people who run quangos and whatever there is, they get this large amount of i'm all for people of money. and i'm all for people being paid large of being paid large amounts of money if earn it, if it's money if they earn it, if it's quite transparent why they have been successful and at the moment with civil servants, just to take an example, we have no idea. uh if they've earned that money, whether they actually have been complete failures, what they've done. and i would

like to see that kind of laid out. so we can say, yeah, he did this. they did that. let's reward them. >> it's very difficult , reward them. >> it's very difficult, isn't it, to measure the success of civil servants. but i would say if you talk about, let's say, housing, we've had something like 16 housing ministers in the last decade . so actually, if the last decade. so actually, if the civil servants have managed to keep the whole thing rolling on, they've probably done a better job than the politicians who we don't hold to account on their performance related pay and just, you know, to put it in context, they're about to get a seven and a half, 7% pay rise. >> well, there was talk about whether or not there should be this consultation on putting a kapsis if anyone in the government wants to start consulting, on consulting, uh, consulting on civil severance pay, i civil servants severance pay, i would say to them, you need to have a long look in the mirror, because one of the things that infuriates i can tell you infuriates me, i can tell you now, is when someone has a ministerial position and then they that ministerial they leave that ministerial position and they can get severance think it's

severance pay. i think it's about a quarter. and i sit there and i think when you look at how many we've had in the many ministers we've had in the last, i don't know, of last, i don't know, a couple of years, ask me years, don't even ask me to don't even to add them don't even ask me to add them all up. but when you're looking at going to be at you're then going to be paying at you're then going to be paying people a quarter. and i remember there was a row, um, with about whether with one of them about whether or would give money or not she would give the money to because got to charity because she'd got thousands of pounds after being in a job approximately in a for job approximately five minutes and, and liz truss, minutes and, and, and liz truss, you minister for 49 days. >> um, tank the economy and days. >> unawayk the economy and days. >> un away with economy and days. >> un away with accessny and days. >> un away with access to and days. >> un away with access to former walks away with access to former prime minister allowances. yeah >> so i just i do think sometimes because i know civil servants have been in touch with me before and said, michelle, why is it always us that get the kicking? why is always us kicking? why is it always us that the spotlight seems to go on to be up for the on to be held up for the accountability and the failures that going that perhaps are going on elsewhere? so yeah, that minister be minister one, that would be something would be something that i would be certainly at if i was certainly looking at if i was even certainly looking at if i was ever. i'm never ever. luckily for you, i'm never going be your prime minister. going to be your prime minister. but perhaps i'd have but if i was, perhaps i'd have that in my side. so i would neveri that in my side. so i would never i wouldn't inflict that on

the don't the population. joe, i don't know, election next year. no it's not. no, you're all safe. you're all i'm not going it's not. no, you're all safe. yo run all i'm not going it's not. no, you're all safe. yo run for i'm not going it's not. no, you're all safe. yo run for officei'm not going it's not. no, you're all safe. yo run for office again. going it's not. no, you're all safe. yo run for office again. uh,ng to run for office again. uh, after the break, there's something to talk to you. something i want to talk to you. and know we have very divided and i know we have very divided opinions, on this. i know opinions, uh, on this. i know people at are strong people at home are very strong opinions. assisted dying. should it in country or it be legal in this country or not? tell me

hello there. michelle dewberry . hello there. michelle dewberry. channel seven journalist and author harriet sergeant . author harriet sergeant. alongside me is the political commentator joe phillips. alongside me is the political commentatorjoe phillips. i want to talk to you about a subject that i know many of you will have very strong opinions on. we're asking this question. it's about dying because the about assisted dying because the founder of childline, esther rantzen, you'll be familiar with her. she said she's considering a assisted suicide if her cancer treatment fails. you know, i think this is a really sad and emotional topic. it's one that divides many. do you think it

should be legal in this country, joe? >> yes, i do, and i think, you know, good for esther rantzen, for speaking out about it. we heard very recently about dame diana rigg through her daughter rachel stirling, actor who'd rachel stirling, the actor who'd asked, you know, basically i've had enough push me over the edge. now, esther rantzen's got stage four lung cancer and she's perfectly all wits about perfectly got all her wits about her. she's well known and well loved and respected . you know, loved and respected. you know, across the country . she she across the country. she she knows what she wants. and she's in a perfectly sensible position to say when i get to the stage, when the treatment isn't doing any good, i want to be able to make that decision. it's interesting because kit malthouse, who's a government minister, um, was. malthouse, who's a government minister, um, was . talking minister, um, was. talking earlier 2000, 2015 was the last time there was a vote in the commons on assisted dying. and he was saying how much things have moved on. and i think it is time that we stopped criminalising people . people, criminalising people. people, um, and allowed people who have,

you know, who are fully compos mentis to make a decision about the treatment they want and the way they want to end their lives as a totally agree. >> i mean, i actually sat with my old tutor from university and add on an nhs ward and watch him die. i stayed with him for three nights and three days and watched him die and all i can say is i wouldn't want my dog to die like that . he was in pain. die like that. he was in pain. uh, the staff didn't come and help him. i had to go and get the staff. and even then it was very difficult. and it was a really distressing and awful thing to watch . and when i wrote thing to watch. and when i wrote about this, i got so many letters from people saying that their, you know, their loved one or their elderly relative had been through the same thing. and that it been through the same thing. and thatitis been through the same thing. and that it is absolutely time that people had a choice how they're going to die . especially because going to die. especially because when you talk to people who are actually against assisted dying,

they think there's this sort of happy death when we're in a hospice and it's all going to be lovely. well, i want to tell them that's just not true, because very i think it's only about a third of people who need hospices. actually get into it. it is just not true. and we need to face how grim death can be in this country. well, and i think we need to have and good for esther rantzen and the late diana rigg, because it means we can discuss it on programs like this. >> and i think important >> and i think it's important that discuss it with that people discuss it with their they make their their families. they make their wishes and you know, wishes very clear, and you know, you should. we do have a living will. now, you should be able to say, you know, i don't want treatment. you know, if i get to such and such a stage, i have a had a very dear friend who she was , um, diagnosed with an was, um, diagnosed with an incurable disease. she took herself off to dignitas, and she wasn't even 50, but she chose the way she wanted to go and she didn't want. this is this is one of the things that's come up in the conversation today about

whether or not a loved, if a loved one then went to dignitas, would they then potentially be prosecuted when they come home? would they then potentially be pro graham when they come home? would they then potentially be pro graham says. they come home? would they then potentially be pro graham says. michelle,3 home? would they then potentially be pro graham says. michelle, myme? >> graham says. michelle, my wife bound for five wife was bed bound for five years , um, in years until her death, um, in november year. i'm sorry to november this year. i'm sorry to hear of passing of your wife hear of the passing of your wife , i nursed her for , but he says i nursed her for this and neither of us this period, and neither of us ever of suicide. bill ever thought of suicide. bill says , um, you know, i appreciate says, um, you know, i appreciate this is very difficult, especially for people experiencing severe pain , he experiencing severe pain, he says. but ultimately, it is only god who can decide when on death essentially should come to a person . i mean, again, there's person. i mean, again, there's lots of you getting in touch and telling me some of your stories. dave, i've just read yours about your mum and the life that dave's explaining his mum has. she's quite elderly , um, in she's quite elderly, um, in a lot of pain , very low quality of lot of pain, very low quality of life . and he's just saying you life. and he's just saying you wouldn't let many people saying you just would not let pets suffer in this way. terry says, yes, of course you should be able to choose how and when you

die. what you say though, if you're diagnosed with a terminal illness, say, and this is the interesting point, what would the parameters be and who would decide those parameters? >> i think if you're doing what esther rantzen done, i mean, esther rantzen has done, i mean, she was diagnosed with a terminal or terminal illness, um, a year or maybe a bit longer ago , and maybe a bit longer ago, and she's made it absolutely clear that, you know, if she if the treatment becomes too, too intrusive, too painful or whatever, i mean, she's obviously not going to get better, but all the time she can carry on. that's not the same as saying, oh, as soon i've been saying, oh, as soon as i've been diagnosed terminal diagnosed with a terminal illness, i want to pop off to switzerland. it's about a switzerland. it's about having a conversation and about controlling. what stage you controlling. at what stage you want to say, i've had enough. >> well, also, curating your own death. i mean, i've, i have a lovely vision . i'd like to die lovely vision. i'd like to die in my bed with my beloved people that i love round me and my pets on the bed with me. that's my idea of how i want to die . and idea of how i want to die. and why on earth should i not be

allowed to have that? >> richard says a completely disagree with everyone, saying it should be legal because it would leave people open to would leave weak people open to pressure manipulation, pressure and manipulation, especially me. um, he says for financial reasons, people trying to get their mitts. uh, so i don't think you can have doctors because you can. >> you know, you've still got safeguards just in the same way as you have for a legal power of attorney for health and welfare decisions. you know, there are decisions. you know, there are decisions that we are taking every single day about ourselves or about our loved ones, whether it's about , or about our loved ones, whether it's about, you or about our loved ones, whether it's about , you know, do not it's about, you know, do not resuscitate , which isn't as lots resuscitate, which isn't as lots of people think, oh, don't keep them alive. it's about actually do you jump on somebody's sternum and break their ribs when they're 97? and the chances of recovery are not very good? >> i have power of attorney over very aged parents. so i know about this. and there's a you know, my gp is forever saying, well you can do this, but you can't do that. exactly. so you could have two doctors. i mean, it's already quite, quite

strictly looked . strictly looked. >> you see it is a topic. i mean it comes around so often doesn't it. there's many prompts that will conversation will create this conversation and again , i'm not and this debate again, i'm not sure where any favour for howard in moving towards a conclusion in moving towards a conclusion in this country like i say, so many people massively divide on this and i can see, uh, both parts, i must admit. but i personally would certainly like the choice. and for me it's about choice. give people a choice and it's up to them . but choice and it's up to them. but also share that concern about also i share that concern about people perhaps being manipulated. started the manipulated. look, i started the programme asking you, do you reckon had reckon rishi sunak has had a good not? i'll summarise good 2023 or not? i'll summarise the thought process at home. shall i? in essence, most of you that have responded to that have said no, you don't. you think it's had a bit of a shocker. anyway hey, look, joe, harry, that's got for. that's all i've got time for. thank you for your company at home. fantastic evening. home. have a fantastic evening. and you tomorrow. and i will see you tomorrow. nigel farage up next. tonight's a with boxt a brighter outlook with boxt solar , sponsors of weather on .

solar, sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hello. welcome to your latest gb news weather update from the met office . rain will continue met office. rain will continue to clear through this evening, bringing many of us clearer skies overnight tonight . that's skies overnight tonight. that's because we've seen a cold front sweep south eastwards across the country that's clearing off tonight. and behind it we see this north westerly wind this brisk north westerly wind direction developing for the rest of the week. that will bnng rest of the week. that will bring a swathe of showers to parts of northern ireland, much of scotland and into northern england and north wales. by the end these could end of the night, these could fall as snow the hills of fall as snow over the hills of scotland for a time. further east, though it will stay dry and clear for much night, and clear for much of the night, and clear for much of the night, and will temperatures and that will allow temperatures to will be a colder to fall away, will be a colder night night here, with night than last night here, with a of grass frost by a risk of grass frost by tomorrow morning and across eastern areas the morning will be than be much brighter than this morning. however , the morning. tomorrow, however, the cloud thicken towards cloud will thicken towards lunchtime as the warm front arrives from northwest . that arrives from the northwest. that will quite a lot of will introduce quite a lot of persistent drizzly to persistent drizzly rain to western as well as hills western areas as well as hills and some quite dull cloud

temperatures will rise as a result though, so it will be a milder afternoon tomorrow afternoon. however, the winds will strengthen as well, so it will strengthen as well, so it will turn quite windy. the winds strengthen even more on wednesday and is wednesday night and there is a wind warning out for many northern areas of the country through of thursday, we through much of thursday, we could gusts in excess could see wind gusts in excess of 70mph, as well as some quite blustery showers pushing in from the north and west. as a continued risk of some snow showers in the north. but for many of us, it's likely to stay quite unsettled in the run up to christmas by like things christmas by looks like things are heating up boxt boilers as sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> good evening . a major speech

>> good evening. a major speech today by michael gove on housing. no mention of migration and rising numbers of people, and rising numbers of people, and the appearance that all housing targets have now been scrapped. dentistry is back in the news as over 80% of the population cannot get an nhs dentist . is population cannot get an nhs dentist. is this population cannot get an nhs dentist . is this potentially dentist. is this potentially good news for the labour party and president biden's loathing of the united kingdom now means that any prospect of a trade deal under his presidency has now been sunk beneath the waves, along with his own approval rating, which is now down to 34. all of that and much more over the course of the next hour. but first, let's get the news with polly middlehurst . polly middlehurst. >> nigel, thank you. good evening. well, the top story tonight, the foreign secretary says the uk will not tolerate attacks on shipping lanes in the red sea. britain is joining an international maritime coalition

dubbed operation