ceasefire. now ceasefire. >> now the demonstrators were urging christmas shoppers to boycott what they say are pro—israel brands . pro—israel brands. >> traffic on oxford street was brought to a standstill as crowds chanted don't find fund genocide . security guards genocide. security guards blocked the entrance to fashion shop zara, while dozens of officers followed the march . officers followed the march. police say there were no arrests . meanwhile, today's been dubbed super saturday tipped to be the busiest in—store shopping day of the year. last year, shoppers were said to have spent over £i.5 were said to have spent over £1.5 million buying last minute christmas gifts . the great christmas gifts. the great christmas gifts. the great christmas getaway is well and truly underway this says it's the busiest day of the pre—christmas period, with an expected 16.5 million extra cars on the road. travellers have been facing delays by road and by rail, with train passengers deaung by rail, with train passengers dealing with cancellations . more dealing with cancellations. more disruption is expected tomorrow as london's king's cross and paddington stations close for engineering works . travel expert

engineering works. travel expert simon calder says people really need to plan their journeys carefully . carefully. >> so let's start at london paddington because we know that all the trains are going to stop as from late tonight. there won't be any until the 28th of december. we are seeing train cancellations to bristol , to cancellations to bristol, to cardiff and coming back in the opposite direction due to shortage of train crew. the nonh shortage of train crew. the north of england is going to be even worse. northern trains has said do not travel on some of our key routes. we won't have any trains, we can't get the staff to run them . staff to run them. >> police have arrested a man on suspicion of theft after the removal of a banksy in south east london. the piece , a stop east london. the piece, a stop sign covered with three aircrafts that look like military drones, was discovered at an intersection in peckham yesterday, less than an hour after the artist confirmed the installation was genuine . installation was genuine. witnesses saw it being removed by a man with bolt cutters . the by a man with bolt cutters. the met police say they have since

arrested a man who remains in custody. we . the father of custody. we. the father of a four year old boy who was stabbed in east london, has paid tribute to his son koby. maria dooley was found with knife injuries at a home in hackney on wednesday and later died in hospital. his dad says he'll be dearly missed and that the joy and laughter he brought to the world was taken too soon. his mother, keziah macharia, has been charged with his murder and is to appear in court on is due to appear in court on thursday . bells rang out across thursday. bells rang out across the czech republic and flags are flying at half mast as the nafion flying at half mast as the nation holds a day of mourning for the victims of a mass shooting. a service was set up a day . a service was held at saint day. a service was held at saint vitus cathedral at the prague castle , ahead of a minute of castle, ahead of a minute of silence at charles university, where a gunman killed 14 people. the country's president, along with members of the public, have been lighting candles and paying their respects at a memorial.

police are still working to establish a motive for the attack . history has been made attack. history has been made with rebecca welch becoming the first woman to referee a premier league match. the 40 year old took charge of this afternoon's fulham burnley game. she began refereeing in 2010 and in january became the first female to officiate a men's champions ukip match. burnley won the game two nil. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on your digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news . news. >> welcome to the saturday night showdown. so the other day there was a striking headline in the metro, britain's most circulated freesheet tabloid newspaper singer arrested over vile remarks made on gb news this sounds dramatic, doesn't it .7 and sounds dramatic, doesn't it.7 and reading the article, i soon realised this was an interview

that took place on my show free speech nation. hang on, i thought to myself. vile remarks , thought to myself. vile remarks, i don't remember, that doesn't really fit with the tone of my show. if a guest were to show. and if a guest were to have made vile remarks, i would have made vile remarks, i would have challenged them have surely challenged them on it. was an interview it. well, this was an interview with singer louise distras, who has faced cancellation in the music industry because she had the temerity express her the temerity to express her opinions. let's hear what she opinions. so let's hear what she had say. prepare yourself. had to say. prepare yourself. this is going to be vile. >> talking about my music and talking about my own life meant being able to talk about being a woman . and nowadays everyone's woman. and nowadays everyone's asking well, what a woman? asking, well, what is a woman? and uh, everything in my life starts with me being a woman and being a woman's an adult human female. right. um stated female. right. um so i stated this radical biological fact in an interview in may this year. and since then, the music industry has just shut its doors on me. well there must be some mistake, because there were no vile remarks there. >> and i rewatched the whole interview to just check that i hadnt interview to just check that i hadn't temporarily slipped into another missed the

another dimension and missed the bit where started bit where louise started spouting hate and vitriol. but no, was nothing that any no, there was nothing that any honest person could possibly classify as vile, stated during the whole course of that interview . so what is the metro interview. so what is the metro playing at? why make a palpably false claim in the headline? now, i'm not going to comment on louise's arrest by police because i don't know the full details, but i am interested in the way that her perfectly reasonable views being reasonable views are being misrepresented in the media, and why the metro in particular, has used this as an opportunity to bash gb news, even its own article doesn't quote any so—called vile remarks , it just so—called vile remarks, it just makes this bold and inaccurate assertion in the headline and this is meant to be a news story. remember not an opinion piece. now my feeling is that it was probably the subeditor was doing because journalists rarely write the headlines themselves. but course it does reveal but of course it does reveal something about the editorial bias publication and how bias of the publication and how it has been so ideologically captured. by way of example, let's take a look at this opinion piece by cameron clarke,

head platforms , social and head of platforms, social and communities at metro from april of this year . communities at metro from april of this year. the article shamelessly smears graham linehan and jk rowling by misrepresenting their views in a way that makes it clear that clarke hasn't taken the time to read what they've actually said. ed clarke states that linehan and rowling are allied with, quote, anti—trans men's groups, which is an outright lie, and describes their views as extreme, claiming they've both been radicalised . ed, what are been radicalised. ed, what are these extreme views ? well, these extreme views? well, they're pretty much in line with they're pretty much in line with the views of louise distras that there are two sexes that the recognition of biological sex is important to maintain the rights of women and gay people, and that and autistic and gender that gay and autistic and gender non—conforming children shouldn't be medicalized and put on pathway to surgical on a pathway to surgical correction. are the views correction. these are the views that the overwhelming majority of people hold. so really , who of people hold. so really, who has been radicalised here? graham linehan and jk rowling , graham linehan and jk rowling, who are expressing the views held by most people in the country and who maintain a

decent liberal stance on human rights or self—proclaimed progressive activists who believe that women don't deserve single—sex spaces and that gay people should be shamed for their sexual orientation. i think we can all see what's going on here. if you want to know what true, radicalised looks like, look no further than the columns of the metro the opinion columns of the metro . so i'm joined tonight by three brilliant comedians cressida wetton, steve n allen and jonathan cogan. uh, cressida , i jonathan cogan. uh, cressida, i want to come to you first. what do you make of all this? so, louise, distrust appears on my show. she makes some very standard nothing standard comments. nothing controversial she was controversial about what she was saying. she's subsequently arrested for circumstances we can't speculate about . but the can't speculate about. but the metro she made these metro says she made these remarks. but not only that, they put it in the headline. so they made it look like they wanted to make out that news was make out that gb news was basically of making basically full of people making vile statements. gb news shaming, it? vile statements. gb news shaof1g, it? vile statements. gb news shaof course it? vile statements. gb news shaof course itt? vile statements. gb news shaof course it is. i think >> of course it is. i think you're exactly right. when you

said they're they're opinion pieces than journalism. pieces rather than journalism. yes. i guess the metro yes. um yeah. i guess the metro has been captured, hasn't it? >> louise, >> but also shaming louise, distrust those views, you distrust for those views, you know, by putting this know, by putting out this message know, message and trying to, you know, well, it, isn't it? well, that's it, isn't it? >> and i mean, i don't think louise is vile at all. neither were her remarks. i think it's totally and just totally unfair. and it's just it's just so sabotaging, isn't it, will the it, because people will read the headune headline and not necessarily go and watch the whole interview? >> very desperately unfair. >> yeah. unfair is the word. steve, do you make of this? steve, what do you make of this? because, don't know because, you know, i don't know if metro reader. if you're a metro reader. i mean, it's free. that's mean, it's free. you that's true. you know, a lot of people read it just because it's free andifs read it just because it's free and it's at the station. and even when they it and even when they open it and realise that the quality is quite sort of it quite low, they just sort of it gives you something to do, doesn't why be doesn't it? but this why, why be so why not just say, so dishonest? why not just say, you know, person expresses views that we at the metro don't agree with? >> well, firstly, that's not pithy that pithy enough, but that is exactly happening. the exactly what's happening. the new they've new version of they've expressed an view we don't agree an a view that we don't agree with vile hatred. should with is vile hatred. they should never to speak again. never be allowed to speak again. and everywhere. we and that's everywhere. so we can't just metro for

can't just blame the metro for it either. everyone's form of debate say thing debate is to say this thing i disagree with is abhorrent and shouldn't be allowed to be said so. 50. >> so. >> and it's also the clickbait thing. >> t- t— @ yes. and i suppose >> yeah. oh yes. and i suppose there's there there's another question there which my head which i can't get my head around. now? because if the around. why now? because if the metro wanted to call those comments vile, could do 15 comments vile, you could do 15 stories a day from what gb news says, normally your says, you can normally set your clock saying, well, clock by someone saying, well, biological sex. well, it's been another on another show, so why pick on steve? >> we have to keep saying that that scientific because so that scientific fact, because so many seem to many media outlets seem to ignore fact or many media outlets seem to ignorit. fact or deny it. >> but interesting that >> but it's interesting that they just find that interview was one that they call vile. was the one that they call vile. i don't know why, and that one i really get my around. really can't get my head around. i can understand the i think i can understand the method debate now is about method of debate now is about cancellation, but i can't stand why. been said. so cancellation, but i can't stand why. times. been said. so cancellation, but i can't stand why. times. but been said. so cancellation, but i can't stand why. times. but foreen said. so cancellation, but i can't stand why. times. but for someid. so cancellation, but i can't stand why. times. but for some reason many times. but for some reason they found it worse when it was. >> might bit of a target. >> might be a bit of a target. might be louise is a target. >> a target as well, >> you're a target as well, though, you? >> you're a target as well, tho what, you? >> you're a target as well, tho what, me?you? >> you're a target as well, tho what, me? yeah well, you >> what, me? yeah well, you think they're after me as think they're going after me as well? no, surprised they're well? no, i'm surprised they're not. that they should. >> i feel that they should. i keep writing.

>> has been kicked out of >> andrew has been kicked out of the music industry for good. i don't his solo are don't have his solo records are ever going be released. ever going to be released. >> you know, my synth pop >> and, you know, my synth pop is legendary. >> your peruvian throat singing. it's can do. it's astonishing what i can do. the goat, no contact and the throat goat, no contact and i can beatbox. >> right now. if you >> i can do it right now. if you want. mean, i don't want. yeah, i mean, i don't know, i better not okay. >> for the break. >> for the break. >> it's not very festive. >> it's not very festive. >> post—watershed. >> post—watershed. >> what do what you make >> what do you what do you make of story? of this story? >> well, think the metro is >> well, i think the metro is a pretend newspaper. i often like. apparently, quality the apparently, the quality of the writing you look at terrible. so you look at the adverts. is that i've adverts. is that right? i've heard that my friend greg told me that in year eight, and i've. i ever since. well, i believed it ever since. well, i believed it ever since. well, i that's probably true. i believed it ever since. well, i articless probably true. i believed it ever since. well, i articles are obably true. i believed it ever since. well, i articles are sonbly true. i believed it ever since. well, i articles are so bad.rue. i believed it ever since. well, i articles are so bad. you the articles are so bad. you just look the horrible just look at the horrible adverts system works adverts and the system works like going. yes. like it's still going. yes. and you okay, i to ask you know, okay, i want to ask you know, okay, i want to ask you all this idea though, you all about this idea though, in cameron clarke's opinion you all about this idea though, in carforon clarke's opinion you all about this idea though, in carfor the larke's opinion you all about this idea though, in carfor the metro. opinion piece for the metro. >> i know this, he wrote it >> and i know this, he wrote it back so it's i'm back in april, so it's not i'm making this a as an making i'm using this as a as an example. that jk example. uh, but he says that jk rowling radicalised rowling has been radicalised onune rowling has been radicalised online now. classic rejection that i think that is i think i think projection is what's going on here been here because who has really been

radicalised guy who's throwing >> well, the guy who's throwing radicalisation around. but but you a that was you know for a view that was held i suggest most of the held by i suggest most of the country for you know, since popular existed popular culture existed and then, only really then, you know, it's only really over ten years had this over the last ten years had this kind of prick mainstream kind of prick the mainstream consciousness and saying that to hold was, you know, consciousness and saying that to holdthe was, you know, consciousness and saying that to holdthe default was, you know, consciousness and saying that to holdthe default foras, you know, consciousness and saying that to holdthe default for many| know, consciousness and saying that to holdthe default for many years ', the, the default for many years is radicalised. crazy. >> el e’- y to this? cressida why >> why go to this? cressida why why not just again? not why not just say again? why not just disagree this just say i disagree with this point why do you point of view? why? why do you have say this person has been have to say this person has been radicalised into believing this view? if have a proper >> because if you have a proper debate this, there's debate about this, there's a chance that you might be wrong. yeah. don't these yeah. and i don't think these people of opportunity. >> they want radical to me. cressida yeah. >> been radicalised >> you've been radicalised online. it steve online. i am is it is it steve also a technique by which you can kind affiliate likes can kind of affiliate the likes of and jk rowling of graham linehan and jk rowling with right? of graham linehan and jk rowling witibecause right? of graham linehan and jk rowling witibecause when we think of >> because when we think of radicalisation, typically >> because when we think of radiceof ation, typically >> because when we think of radiceof the n, typically >> because when we think of radiceof the far typically >> because when we think of radiceof the far right, cally >> because when we think of radiceof the far right, don't think of the far right, don't we? islamism we? or extreme islamism or something and we something of that kind. and we don't. if we were being don't. i mean, if we were being honest, think honest, we don't normally think of feminists want their of just feminists who want their own owi'i spaces. >> own spaces. >> yeah, it's a it's >> no. and yeah, it's a it's actually really good actually a really good technique, it technique, isn't it, because it works words works if you have words that carry some negative weight with them associate them with the

them and associate them with the people you're disagreeing with, you argue the you don't have to argue the point. the person and point. you argue the person and from of view, come from your point of view, come across winning. across as winning. >> mean, from across as winning. >> you're mean, from across as winning. >> you're describing,in, from across as winning. >> you're describing, it from what you're describing, it sounds that's self sounds like that's a self conscious part conscious decision on the part of opinion columnist. of this opinion columnist. do you maybe genuinely you think maybe he genuinely believes you think maybe believes it? do you think maybe he thinks that he genuinely thinks that scientific hate ? is it scientific fact is hate? is it possible that he actually does think that? >> i don't think it >> but. well, i don't think it would for to would be possible for him to have that sentence have that. that sentence representing the thought that he have that. that sentence reprebutting the thought that he have that. that sentence reprebutting sure :hought that he have that. that sentence reprebutting sure there's that he have that. that sentence reprebutting sure there's anit he has. but i'm sure there's an emotional to his emotional response to his perception of what those words are yes, going to get are doing. yes, i'm going to get are doing. yes, i'm going to get a wordy flimflam there. it's a bit wordy flimflam there. it's going to it gets difficult going to it gets too difficult to no, i don't think to stand. but no, i don't think those words in order that those words in that order that he he he thinks he believes. but he he thinks there's happening. he believes. but he he thinks ther> done same >> you've just done the same thing. because you

thing. it's horrible because you don't it's not don't like it. maybe it's not a conscious. saying it's conscious. you're saying it's a conscious. you're saying it's a conscious because conscious decision because he's trying his down trying to keep his head down below parapet, therefore below the parapet, and therefore you know, you don't with you know, you don't agree with his through. you know, you don't agree with his he's through. you know, you don't agree with his he's just through. you know, you don't agree with his he's just sort'ough. you know, you don't agree with his he's just sort'ou�*acting out >> he's just sort of acting out of like, i'm on the of fear, like, oh, i'm on the good i'm the side. good side. i'm on the good side. you're dismissing that. >> it without >> maybe he believes it without necessarily thinking all necessarily thinking round all the the. i mean, does necessarily thinking round all the believe he. i mean, does necessarily thinking round all the believe have mean, does necessarily thinking round all the believe have they|, does necessarily thinking round all the believe have they not es anyone believe have they not just. >> well, no, i haven't thought it i there are some people >> i think there are some people who believe that we all have who do believe that we all have a gendered soul, and a kind of gendered soul, and that that it doesn't necessarily match our body. and, you know, we ridiculous if we can say that's ridiculous if we can say that's ridiculous if we but there are people we like, but there are people who believe that think who believe that you think disproportionately who believe that you think disproportioiwrite and people who write articles and blogs. those blogs. um, i think that those kind of people attracted to kind of people are attracted to that job. okay uh, that kind of job. okay uh, because is there does seem because there is there does seem to correlation between to be a correlation between that belief narcissism. to be a correlation between that belieokay. narcissism. to be a correlation between that belieokay. again, narcissism. to be a correlation between that belieokay. again, that'sissism. to be a correlation between that belieokay. again, that's i'm.m. yes. okay. again, that's i'm doing i'm not meant to doing the thing i'm not meant to do, but but i'm doing it do, but i'm but i'm doing it self—consciously. i'm being quite here. self—consciously. i'm being qui'self here. self—consciously. i'm being qui'self consciously not self >> self consciously not self conscious i'm criticising. >> nice. yeah, yeah. you know it's mean i like to it's like art i mean i like to think that everything i do is art. you agree with art. yeah. would you agree with that me some that jonathan. you show me some interesting on i did. that jonathan. you show me some inteyeah.gon i did. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> what's the called again?

>> what's the guy called again? >> what's the guy called again? >> tom of finland. >> tom of finland. up. >> tom of finland. look him up. >> tom of finland. look him up. >> don't that, kids >> no, don't don't do that, kids . search off. . uh, they've search off. >> it's. >> it's. >> thanks for that, jonathan. okay now then, do have , okay uh, now then, we do have, uh, three amazing prizes that are guaranteed to be won by one of our lucky viewers in our great british giveaway. £10,000 cash, uh, tech and vouchers. and if you haven't entered yet , why if you haven't entered yet, why on earth not? what are you thinking ? it is so easy. here thinking? it is so easy. here are all the details . are all the details. >> this is your chance to win cash, treats and tech in our very first great british giveaway, there's a totally tax free £10,000 cash up for grabs. cash which would help make 2024 a whole lot better. we're also going to send you shopping with £500 worth of vouchers to spend in the store of your choice. what would be on your shopping list? if it's a new iphone? we've also got that covered too, with the latest iphone 15 pro max, which you'll also receive for another chance to win the iphone.the for another chance to win the iphone. the vouchers and £10,000 cash next gb news in to 84 902.

text cost £2 plus one standard network rate message , or post network rate message, or post your name and to number gb news zero one, po box 8690. derby de19, double t, uk . only de19, double t, uk. only entrants must be 18 or over. lines close at 5 pm. on friday. the 5th of january. full terms and privacy notice at gbnews.com. forward slash win good luck . good luck. >> next on the show we're going to be looking at some big names from the week's news and determine whether they are cursed or blessed . and this week cursed or blessed. and this week we're going to be putting donald trump, some guy trump, banksy and some guy called santa claus the called santa claus under the microscope . so don't go away

listening to gb news radio show? >> welcome back to the saturday night showdown . regular host leo

night showdown. regular host leo kearse may be off, but we can still look at some big figures from the week and decide who is cursed or blessed. so who deserves to spend their christmas enjoying fine food, wonderful companionship and maybe a tipple or two? and who deserves some louis schaefer merchandise ? guys. so let's merchandise? guys. so let's start with, uh, former president donald trump . trump hopes to be donald trump. trump hopes to be the president of the future , but the president of the future, but that was dealt a blow that plan was dealt a blow this week when colorado's top court ruled that he appear on ruled that he cannot appear on the as the state's ballot as a republican presidential candidate . the colorado court candidate. the colorado court said clear evidence said it had found clear evidence that trump engaged in that president trump engaged in insurrection with regard to the capitol riots of 2021, when trump supporters attacked the government building in washington. the colorado ruling is likely to end up in the supreme court. adding further spice an already charged spice to an already charged election. that donald election. cressida that donald trump or blessed? trump cursed or blessed? >> well, he's both, isn't he? in extremes, there's people who absolutely will become more and more devoted to him, and there's people who vile , people who think he's vile, whatever he does. >> but does his whole >> yeah, but he does his whole shtick he is basically

shtick is that he is basically a martyr. there's deep state martyr. there's the deep state is against him. and then colorado him colorado trying to prevent him from running feeds into from running kind of feeds into that narrative perfectly. >> he's going to end up blessed, doesn't that's what's going doesn't he? that's what's going to happen. >> approval already >> his approval ratings already soaring >> his approval ratings already soa this i yeah >> this yeah i don't yeah i don't understand don't don't understand i don't understand could understand how anybody could have go any differently. yeah. no steve you're >> yeah. no steve you're not a trump fan. true. i think trump fan. i'm true. i think it's fair to say the man and the concept. yes, yes. okay so what do make because it is do you make of it? because it is true like that when went true like that when they went for for for the impeachment, for instance, popularity instance, his popularity soared whenever they raided whenever when they raided mar—a—lago, his popularity soared. any time they do something , it does something like this, it does kind of give him up, isn't kind of give him a leg up, isn't it? don't they learn their it? just don't they learn their lesson? >> no. it's amazing that they don't. think as we don't. although i think as we talked about in the earlier topic, you drink that topic, that if you drink that kool—aid, believe that kool—aid, you believe that actually do, actually whatever you do, however it's however you stop trump, it's worthwhile. why they worthwhile. so that's why they have court cases against worthwhile. so that's why they have whatever�*urt cases against worthwhile. so that's why they have whatever without s against him. whatever without actually doing of realising doing the analysis of realising maybe two court cases maybe there's two court cases that run up to an that matter on the run up to an election christie, election and chris christie, who's also running and also a republican, but makes a really good point. you need donald trump lose an election,

trump to lose an election, not lose court case. absolutely. lose a court case. absolutely. it's not going to make any difference. i mean, even if he loses election, he might loses an election, he might pretend if he pretend he hasn't. but if he gets stopped case, gets stopped by a court case, then course he can have the then of course he can have the narrative that he have won narrative that he would have won if for the unfair ruling. >> so, jonathan, i mean, this is an because an interesting one because a lot of haters, i think that's of trump haters, i think that's the word kids use. uh, they the word the kids use. uh, they have out and don't have come out and said, we don't want happen. like, this have come out and said, we don't w¢not happen. like, this have come out and said, we don't w¢not popularappen. like, this have come out and said, we don't w¢not popular on en. like, this have come out and said, we don't w¢not popular on eithere, this have come out and said, we don't w¢not popular on either side,s is not popular on either side, partly because it's just clearly unconstitutional. it's clearly not and not going to work right. and most already. most people know that already. it's to the supreme it's not going to the supreme court, mostly court, which is mostly republican way. republican nominees, by the way. they're pass they're never going to pass this. what they thinking ? this. what are they thinking? >> mean, and it >> of course, i mean, and it does, you say, it fits the does, like you say, it fits the narrative. almost as if narrative. it's almost as if it's done boost it's purposefully done to boost him much possible. it him as much as possible. is it some 4d chess? some really clever 4d chess? because something because every time something like feeds into like this happens, it feeds into the narrative, he the master narrative, and he just gets more, you know, just gets a bit more, you know, ammo they're ammo like, oh, they're coming for in. like, for me, better vote me in. like, yeah, yeah, it's weird one isn't it? >> is trump derangement syndrome a thing? what do guys think a thing? what do you guys think we've harris down line. >> he i $- % sam i was line. >> he i sam i was listening today. >> i know he's great. but you

know i mean people do hate him to extreme degrees, don't they? >> they really do. i think he sort of embodies everything a lot of people hate whether or not he actually does or they're just projecting that onto him. >> what do you think, steve? >> what do you think, steve? >> well, i was going say to >> well, i was going to say to just pushback, which >> well, i was going to say to just i pushback, which >> well, i was going to say to just i can pushback, which >> well, i was going to say to just i can have back, which >> well, i was going to say to just i can have an k, which >> well, i was going to say to just i can have an enjoyable means i can have an enjoyable evening of hatred twitter. evening of hatred on twitter. yes if they yes that legally they, if they have in constitution, have it in the constitution, that they have that there is a rule they have to rule, otherwise to uphold the rule, otherwise the rule disappears. yes, it's their is based their court system is based on precedent. so you could forevermore have an insurrectionist stand, uh, as uh, a candidate for uh, as a candidate for president. that's true. that's true. the phrasing of it, the reason why there's some legal issue there is that in that amendment section or amendment 14, section three, or whatever they say anyone whatever it is, they say anyone who comfort to our who is given comfort to our enemies. so not necessarily enemies. so it's not necessarily about having to hold a pitchfork yourself. if you have supported insurrectionists , then you are insurrectionists, then you are seemed to be no longer valid to stand primary . they've stand for their primary. they've not looked at it in terms of the problem with that. >> steve, no serious >> steve, is that no serious legal has suggested that >> steve, is that no serious legalhe has suggested that >> steve, is that no serious legalhe amounted sted that >> steve, is that no serious legalhe amounted told that what he said amounted to incitement and therefore he

can't be accused of that. yeah, because he's not legally been found guilty of being linked to the insurrection. so actually, he yeah, well, he wasn't there. yeah, well, he actually home. yeah. >> you don't have to there to >> you don't have to be there to give comfort to. that's the unfortunate phrasing when they phrase it, though. >> i'm interested. what >> i mean, i'm interested. what is he gave is the argument that he gave comfort because comfort to them because i've, i've things he i've read all the things he said, couldn't see any said, and i couldn't see any evidence it. well can't evidence of it. well i can't think of quotes that they think of the quotes that they use now. use right now. >> saying that's why >> i'm just saying that's why it's that to be it's an issue that needs to be looked into. even looked into. yes and even i agree, when you actually do read through the quotes of things he said have whipped up said that might have whipped up or doesn't. it's or fomented it, it doesn't. it's no smoking it's what or fomented it, it doesn't. it's no sshouldi it's what or fomented it, it doesn't. it's no sshouldi is it's what or fomented it, it doesn't. it's no sshouldi is head what or fomented it, it doesn't. it's no sshouldi is head down it or fomented it, it doesn't. it's no sshouldi is head down there you should do is head down there and up. agree with and smash that up. i agree with that. actually what they need that. so actually what they need to do is the ducks to do is get the ducks in the right legally, out right order legally, work out whether in any way linked whether he's in any way linked to he is, to insurrection and if he is, then a think about whether then have a think about whether that article that means you trigger article amendment that means you trigger article amendm

they get somebody else, then then that's somebody else will win, won't they? neither win, won't they? because neither of popular. of them are actually popular. you en masse, like with you know, en masse, like with everybody just sensible everybody just get a sensible politician on side and then politician on one side and then rejoin as well. >> if they the back tax >> if they paid the back tax that us, i think we that they owed us, i think we could them back or could accept them back or aboush could accept them back or abolish all governments or aboush abolish all governments or abolish all governments or abolish all governments. >> go for an anarchist state. i like >> go for an anarchist state. i uke good >> go for an anarchist state. i like good one jonathan chris like it. good one jonathan chris skudder. what did you say? cursed or blessed? >> i think blessed. oh, blessed. >> okay, there we go. uh, next up, we've got mysterious up, we've got the mysterious artist who has seen his artist banksy, who has seen his latest creation taken down within hours of it being verified as his own piece. so apparently it's the piece is an anti—war statement which appeared on a street in south london. however, half an hour after he'd verified on social media that it was one of his works, was taken down. works, the piece was taken down. you see piece in you can see the piece there in the image. taken down the image. it's taken down by bolt and the police bolt cutters. and now the police are that they're are there saying that they're waiting anyone reports waiting to see if anyone reports a isn't it isn't it a crime. um, isn't it isn't it just a form of art just a, you know, a form of art criticism to take down what is quite objectionably bad art? >> can start doing that

>> can we start doing that in galleries? might galleries? because i might make tracey unmade i tracey emin's unmade bed, i could it's been burned. could well, it's been burned. >> it was. it was destroyed. >> it was. it was destroyed. >> wasn't it good criticism burning that but i suppose. >> yeah. what i really >> yeah. well, what i really love idea of kid on love is the idea of some kid on christmas morning unwrapping a giant having no giant stop sign and having no idea been given that giant stop sign and having no ide christmas. been given that for christmas. >> yeah, it would be quite >> yeah, well, it would be quite valuable >> yeah, well, it would be quite val|that's also, because >> that's true also, because was it up illegally, does that it put up illegally, does that mean it? sort of. mean you can steal it? sort of. everything banksy is everything that banksy does is slightly, around slightly, um, dodgy around the law, it's either graffiti >> because it's either graffiti or. so. so if you do take it. >> yeah. is that fine. what's the rules? >> well, i don't know as far as you're litter picking. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> i mean it's rude is it >> i mean it's how rude is it situationist i suppose it's situationist art, i suppose it's kind yeah, whole kind of like. yeah, the whole thing isn't it? thing is performative, isn't it? of got nicked. it's of course it got nicked. it's like, isn't that all part of it? >> yeah. probably. >> yeah. he probably. yeah, maybe to. maybe he wanted it to. >> work. that isn't >> banksy work. that isn't going to nicked. >> banksy work. that isn't going to now,cked. >> banksy work. that isn't going to now, thei. >> banksy work. that isn't going to now, the thing we don't >> now, the thing is, we don't know right is that know who he is. right is that right? we still don't know who he who do you know he is. who do we? do you know who is? who he is? >> from bristol, and there's >> i'm from bristol, and there's loads that they >> i'm from bristol, and there's loa know that they >> i'm from bristol, and there's loa know who that they >> i'm from bristol, and there's loa know who is, at they >> i'm from bristol, and there's loa know who is, at okay. >> i'm from bristol, and there's loaknow who is, at okay. i do know who it is, mind. okay. i personally him. personally don't know him. >> gyles brandreth. >> i think it's gyles brandreth. >> i think it's gyles brandreth. >> could up >> anyway, he could reach up there so there was

there i steve. so there was earlier in the year, there was one painted a wall earlier in the year, there was on dover, painted a wall earlier in the year, there was on dover, and painted a wall earlier in the year, there was on dover, and that ed a wall earlier in the year, there was on dover, and that ed whipped earlier in the year, there was on do�*withind that ed whipped earlier in the year, there was on do�*within athat ed whipped earlier in the year, there was on do�*within athat so maybe were just doing >> so maybe they were just doing a steve, you >> so maybe they were just doing a his steve, you >> so maybe they were just doing a his art? steve, you >> so maybe they were just doing a his art? i steve, you >> so maybe they were just doing a his art? i am,teve, you >> so maybe they were just doing a his art? i am, i'm, you like his art? i am, i'm in general not by art. general not moved by any art. >> science involved >> no times, no science involved in but i think in it. so. but no, i do think now we've got to the stage of it's even less to do art it's even less to do with art than was the first place. than it was in the first place. >> well, beryl is >> well, he's no beryl cook, is he, cressida? >> i mean i've got >> no, but i mean i've got he's no years i went to no tom from years ago. i went to one exhibitions and it one of his exhibitions and it was interesting stuff was full of interesting stuff and sculptures and. yeah, uh, i'm not interesting conceptually. >> the coolest conceptually. >> sixth the coolest conceptually. >> sixth form. the coolest guy in sixth form. >> the end. >> and that's the end. >> and that's the end. >> so is he cursed or >> okay, so is he cursed or blessed? do we have make blessed? do we have to make a decision? i don't know the rules here. one hour has stolen. >> would that's cursed. >> i would say that's cursed. >> i would say that's cursed. >> we're >> cursed? yeah. we're going with very, with cursed. okay. very, very good. next he's good. okay so next up, he's always headlines always in the headlines this time father christmas, always in the headlines this time known 1er christmas, always in the headlines this time known 1er santa mas, always in the headlines this time known 1er santa claus .

otherwise known as santa claus. what kind person has what kind of person has a pseudonym like that? makes pseudonym like that? that makes me mistrustful . while me very mistrustful. and while other pop characters other pop culture characters come from the come and go from the imagination, guy keeps imagination, this guy just keeps trucking hear trucking along. you don't hear about him january to about him from january to november, come december and november, but come december and it's santa that. and it's santa, this santa that. and we lucky enough to have him we were lucky enough to have him on on gb news this on with us on gb news this morning. jonathan. yes, morning. um, jonathan. yes, santa claus curse or blessed? >> i think he is. he's blessed. he's, you know, immortal. he can travel speeds nearing the speed of light, and he's incredibly generous. i think he's he's blessed. but at the same time, he has to do a lot of work. so there's a bit of. but i feel like it's a burden to him. like it's not a burden to him. he enjoys it. >> difficult, though, isn't it? because in latin america, the tradition baby jesus tradition is that the baby jesus helps deliver the gifts, helps santa deliver the gifts, which of labour, which is a form of child labour, laboun which is a form of child labour, labour, so that's labour, child labour. so that's what we're talking about here. that's character what we're talking about here. that's is. character what we're talking about here. that's is. what character what we're talking about here. that's is. what d0|aracter what we're talking about here. that's is. what do you ter what we're talking about here. that's is. what do you think? this guy is. what do you think? i'd blessed i'd say technically blessed because other name, saint nick. >> yeah. so if you're a saint, you've been blessed. and i think i've just worked the system. >> sorry. interesting. it >> sorry. interesting. is it true that father christmas true that that father christmas was popularised by coca cola?

like the way in which we think of him now? the red outfit, uh, the obesity that this was sort of invented by coca cola . that's of invented by coca cola. that's what they generate obesity. >> f�*- w�*— e there's also some >> i've heard there's also some not even being silly here. some like native tribal traditions of not even being silly here. some li kind tive tribal traditions of not even being silly here. some li kind ofe tribal traditions of not even being silly here. some li kind of shaman:raditions of not even being silly here. some li kind of shaman comings of not even being silly here. some li kind of shaman coming down the a kind of shaman coming down the like the i want to say, like a tepee in red and giving tepee thing in red and giving presents . that's apparently presents. that's apparently also part are being part of the yeah, you are being silly. part of silly. no, that's part part of the making up. silly. no, that's part part of the no, making up. silly. no, that's part part of the no, no, making up. silly. no, that's part part of the no, no, no.:ing up. >> no, no, no. >> worldly is would as well >> worldly man is would as well take from everybody >> worldly man is would as well tak over from everybody >> worldly man is would as well tak over the from everybody >> worldly man is would as well tak over the world.1 everybody all over the world. >> suppose he would. all over the world. >> i suppose he would. all over the world. >> i mean, ;e he would. all over the world. >> i mean, yous would. all over the world. >> i mean, you know,i. all over the world. >> i mean, you know, we always worry and worry about the breaking and entering and also the entering aspect and also the fact that, you know, would fact that, you know, what would happen. what happens happen. you know, what happens if santa claus comes down the chimney know, one chimney and, you know, one of the wakes up, sees an the parents wakes up, sees an intruder, doesn't who it intruder, doesn't know who it is, got they're is, and they've got they're out, they've baseball bat is, and they've got they're out, th that from? santa claus. >> this that from? santa claus. >> this a that from? santa claus. >> this a song|at from? santa claus. >> this a song my rom? santa claus. >> this a song my troubled >> this is a song my troubled childhood years. >> this is a song my troubled chi|so3od years. >> this is a song my troubled chi|so .)d years. >> so. >> so. >> yeah. and also he tends to be a hypersexualized figure these days, know? yeah days, you know? yeah >> you think mariah carey gets hold of it when mariah carey. >> seen the video? hold of it when mariah carey. >> carey seen the video? hold of it when mariah carey. >> carey rolling1e video? hold of it when mariah carey. >> carey rolling in video? hold of it when mariah carey. >> carey rolling in vide snow mariah carey rolling in the snow with . eartha kitt

with tentacles. eartha kitt singing baby, and there's singing santa baby, and there's an of i'm an x rated version of that. i'm not to you about not going to talk to you about that i saw him in the that one, but i saw him in the westgate shopping centre in stevenage looking stevenage and he wasn't looking too so pay £15 to visit him as well? >> yes. do you think? i mean, it's good though, have it's good though, to have a you call a plus sized role model call him a plus sized role model . um, you know, if we're going down the road of body positivity, he's a great role model because sort of model because he's sort of saying going to diet. model because he's sort of say he's going to diet. model because he's sort of say he's doing g to diet. model because he's sort of say he's doing that diet. model because he's sort of say he's doing that a et. model because he's sort of say he's doing that a long >> he's been doing that a long time, into time, hasn't he? he's been into that was cool. that way before. it was cool. >> yeah, but it's a bit like the joke superman joke about, um, superman pretending out of a pretending he falls out of a window gets someone window and gets someone to follow he follow him because obviously he doesn't die. this guy is immortal a that's immortal and has a bmi that's about 45. yes. what? getting other people to eat the same way. all of a sudden way. and then all of a sudden they yeah they die early? yeah >> very dodgy. and of >> no, it's very dodgy. and of course treatment course the treatment of the reindeers kind of i reindeers i think is kind of i think they like it. you think it's okay. >> they're into yeah. >> they're into it. yeah. they're happy and singing. and which the red hose. >> nose. >> rudolph. >> rudolph. >> uh. jemmy. >> uh. jemmy. >> no no, no it's rudolph. >> no no, no it's rudolph. >> there were some bullying >> no no, no it's rudolph. >> butere were some bullying >> no no, no it's rudolph. >> but i; were some bullying >> no no, no it's rudolph. >> but i think some bullying >> no no, no it's rudolph. >> but i think i;ome bullying >> no no, no it's rudolph. >> but i think i think3ullying >> no no, no it's rudolph. >> but i think i think in.lying issues, but i think i think in this day and age, is he joining the game? it's not bullying

this day and age, is he joining the ganandt's not bullying this day and age, is he joining the ganand out.)t bullying alcohol and out. >> all it is. look, >> that's all it is. okay, look, uh, next the uh, coming up next on the saturday night showdown, wham! have number have finally made it to number one christmas charts . uh, one in the christmas charts. uh, only the was only 39 years after the song was originally they originally released. they get there so we're going there in the end. so we're going to celebrate with discussion to celebrate with a discussion of and my panel of christmas music. and my panel are about to their are about to reveal their festive favourite s. let us know if you agree and don't go anywhere

radio. welcome back to the saturday night showdown . saturday night showdown. >> it's time for culture corner. uh, but what could be more cultural at this time of year than festive music ? uh, so last than festive music? uh, so last christmas by wham i has been christmas by wham! has been declared this year's christmas number one, 39 years after it was denied the top by band was denied the top spot by band aid . oh evil people. uh, aid. oh evil people. uh, jonathan cogan has gone even further back for his christmas pick. so let's have a listen . i

pick. so let's have a listen. i i'm dreaming of a white, white christmas . just like the ones christmas. just like the ones i used to know . where the treetops used to know. where the treetops glisten and children listen to hear sleigh bells in the snow . hear sleigh bells in the snow. i'll okay bing crosby. hear sleigh bells in the snow. i'll okay bing crosby . jonathan, i'll okay bing crosby. jonathan, why did you pick that? >> it's beautiful , isn't it? >> it's beautiful, isn't it? it's just the classic christmas . it's just the classic christmas. it's just the classic christmas. it's got that warmth that it generates. it'sjust it's got that warmth that it generates. it's just a very traditional. i mean, the actual songi traditional. i mean, the actual song i wanted to do, i wasn't allowed to do because it's a bit rude. >> so i went, okay, so you went that. yeah it just strikes me as very sentimental. >> it really is. very sentimental. >> buteally is. very sentimental. >> buteallyi s. very sentimental. >> buteallyi didn't know you very sentimental. >> b so allyi didn't know you very sentimental. >> b so sincere. in't know you were so sincere. >> real sentimental. >> i'm a real sentimental. >> i'm a real sentimental. >> all more kind a black >> all more as a kind of a black hearted, kind of. hearted, you know, kind of. >> i have my moments, but it depends me. depends who crosses me. but

yeah, the yeah, at the same time, at the same time, i also associate it with which i'm sure with home alone, which i'm sure we'll get into later. but there's version. there's like a modern version. macaulay getting macaulay culkin is getting ready. a shower. used ready. just had a shower. i used to back in to base myself on him back in the right. yeah. it's, uh. >> well, let's ha- h into that >> well, let's not get into that now because we are going to talk about later. about christmas movies later. any song? any thoughts on that song? the bing crosby racist. bing crosby song racist. >> that >> can't believe you picked that white christmas. chris, you've been radicalised. >> you've been radicalised. >> you've been radicalised. >> ? >> radicalised? >> radicalised? >> because you're a >> well, yeah, because you're a musician. you ever covered it? >> well, emu h musician. >> well, he is a musician. >> well, he is a musician. >> a christmas ep >> we did do a christmas ep once. we a few songs . we did once. we did a few songs. we did a number ones that were number one christmas weren't one at christmas that weren't christmas um, christmas related. really. um, it was it, uh, i remember , but it was it, uh, i remember, but carry on. yeah. >> we'll carry on talking while you do because it's not you do that, because it's not great tv. >> no, i mean, it's quite interesting that christmas songs >> no, i mean, it's quite irthey;ting that christmas songs >> no, i mean, it's quite irthey are] that christmas songs >> no, i mean, it's quite irthey are] tha of hristmas songs >> no, i mean, it's quite irthey are] tha of perennial;ongs , they are sort of perennial everyone, they always do. >> just released >> well, cher has just released a christmas album of new a christmas album full of new songs. a christmas album full of new songs . some a christmas album full of new songs. some them are a christmas album full of new songs . some them are covers, songs. some of them are covers, but of them are she's but some of them are new. she's 77. still wow , i 77. i mean, she's still wow, i won't doing that one. won't won't be doing that one. i won't be alive say it. be alive when you say it. >> living crisis. i bet be alive when you say it. >> thoughtiving crisis. i bet be alive when you say it. >> thought she| crisis. i bet be alive when you say it. >> thought she could. i bet be alive when you say it. >> thought she could retire: be alive when you say it. >> thought she could retire by how. >> now. >> yeah, maybe. maybe that's what it is. >> out another album. what it is. >> yeah, out another album. what it is.

>> yeah, > yeah, > donnie >> oh. donnie darko. >> oh. donnie darko. >> from film. >> yeah, it's from that film. >> yeah, it's from that film. >> that's was. >> yeah, that's what it was. yeah, definitely yeah, well, there was definitely in let's in that film. anyway, let's let's what cressida chose let's see what cressida chose for her ever christmas song i >> -- >> god rest ye merry, gentlemen, let nothing you dismay for jesus christ , our let nothing you dismay for jesus christ, our saviour was let nothing you dismay for jesus christ , our saviour was born let nothing you dismay for jesus christ, our saviour was born on christmas day to save us all from satan's powers. >> when we were gone astray . let >> when we were gone astray. let tidings, of course , comfort and tidings, of course, comfort and joy - jov- >> annie lennox joy- >> annie lennox is jov- >> annie lennox is great, isn't she? >> is that all we're gonna. that's oh, my goodness, that's very misleading. that's oh, my goodness, that's very misleading . why? because very misleading. why? because the drop, it drops, it starts, and they're all marching through the forest. >> it's not choral all the way through. >> oh, it's like a it's like a festival um sorry.

festival song. um sorry. >> well, the clip we chose maybe didn't reflect. i'm sorry. well, i recommend go i would recommend everyone go and i would recommend everyone go ancit's very cool. she's an >> it's very cool. she's got an amazing isn't amazing voice, isn't it? >> jonathan thought she was enya. well she look enya. well she doesn't look at all the same to me. >> it's not a panpipe in it. absolutely. >> and actually, enya does brilliant and brilliant christmas songs and she album for she hasn't done an album for eight she hasn't done an album for eigioh, on it, enya. >> oh, get on with it, enya. >> oh, get on with it, enya. >> yeah, goodness sake, >> yeah, for goodness sake, paul >> yeah, for goodness sake, paul, you're out. paul, you're in. you're out. that's interesting that that's an interesting one that annie lennox has done, though. i like this idea of covering old christmas and giving christmas songs and giving it a new flavour. think that's the new flavour. i think that's the way go, it? think way to go, isn't it? i think that's i don't know. >> yeah. there's sexy santas >> yeah. there's no sexy santas in that , though, there? in that, though, is there? >> there be >> no. well, there might be because didn't the rest because we didn't see the rest of that happens? >> is that what happens? >> is that what happens? >> sexy santas >> there could be sexy santas later on. okay, well, let's move on choice. did on to steve's choice. what did steve best steve choose as the best christmas time ? bah, christmas song of all time? bah, humbug. well, that's too strong because it is my favourite holiday. >> but all this year it's been a busy blur. don't think i have the energy to add to my already mad rush just cause it's. tis the season . the perfect gift for the season. the perfect gift for me. would be completions and connections left from last year.

skis shop and counting. most interesting had his number but never the time most of anyone pass along those lines. so deck those halls, trim those trees, raise up . raise up. >> okay steve, look . yeah, it's >> okay steve, look. yeah, it's a song that always annoyed me, if i'm honest. but but maybe it's because i always i was more familiar with the spice girls version. oh is that is that an abomination? >> i used to have respect for you sometimes, but like the spice girls version of it is the biggest problem with that song. it didn't need to be recovered. it's one of that just it's one of those that just crops every year. yes, and crops up every year. yes, and my back with is that i back story with it is that i used work more in used to like work more in commercial various commercial radio on various little stations , and that commercial radio on various little is stations , and that commercial radio on various little is brilliant>ns , and that commercial radio on various little is brilliant because that commercial radio on various little is brilliant because it'st commercial radio on various little is brilliant because it's a song is brilliant because it's a story song . it's one of those story song. it's one of those where she is miserable. she didn't like christmas through every single verse near the last one, little of magic one, a little bit of magic happens you're running happens and if you're running late news, have late for the news, you have to fade it's fade it early and it's just a miserable song. i've missed the bit. >> yeah, that's like turning off before scene old before the last scene of old yeller, avoid the yeller, just so you avoid the nasty bit. yeah, that's what you do . the waitresses though, now

do. the waitresses though, now they , they hadn't done i they, they hadn't done other, i don't know , any of other don't know, any of their other songs. they in america don't know, any of their other songs. at1ey in america don't know, any of their other songs. at1ey timein america don't know, any of their other songs. at1ey time when erica don't know, any of their other songs. at1ey time when they touring at the time when they recorded that and it was i think it august or july. recorded that and it was i think it were august or july. recorded that and it was i think it were in august or july. recorded that and it was i think it were in onert or july. recorded that and it was i think it were in one of or july. recorded that and it was i think it were in one of the uly. recorded that and it was i think it were in one of the states they were in one of the states that has a desert and the recording studio where they recorded desert, recorded it was in a desert, right? were baking right? so they were baking dunng right? so they were baking during that, and just loved during that, and i just loved the them writing that the idea of them writing that song and recording, trying to sound yes, the sound all festive. yes, in the middle sound all festive. yes, in the micdesert. great. that is good. >> desert. great. that is good. that's a whole new that's given me a whole new found for. would found respect for. would you like one, cressida? found respect for. would you like it one, cressida? found respect for. would you like it remindscressida? found respect for. would you like it reminds me sida? found respect for. would you like it reminds me of a? found respect for. would you like it reminds me of panic buying >> it reminds me of panic buying dresses christmas dresses for christmas dos in december. dresses for christmas dos in dec me jer. yeah, dresses for christmas dos in decmejer. yeah, and jonathan >> me too. yeah, and jonathan honestly the honestly never heard the song before . before. >> never that song? >> you've never heard that song? >> you've never heard that song? >> heard that. >> e— e is actually quite >> yeah, that is actually quite remarkable yeah. know remarkable. yeah. i don't know how through life how you can go through life without it's without hearing because it's always sort of there. >> i never learned do my >> i never learned to do my shoelaces properly. true. yeah. >> e"- en" >> oh, the wiping coming along. >> oh, the wiping coming along. >> not get that . all >> let's not get into that. all right. finally, this is the thing that chose. let's have a thing that i chose. let's have a look at this one. what about tuc

? >> 7- >> devo? 7 >> devo? terry—thomas sorry. take . out, take a docesna . take. out, take a docesna. charles x mary admission. it's got . take out. it's got a take charles x mary admission. it's got. take out. it's got a take a dose. got. take out. it's got a take a dose . it's not xmas dodi al dose. it's not xmas dodi al fayed. now the reason i chose thatis fayed. now the reason i chose that is i think there aren't enough christmas pop songs that are in latin that is my view on that. >> oh yes , it means rejoice ye >> oh yes, it means rejoice ye wow . wow. >> wow. >> yeah. very cool. it's an old medieval christmas song. >> it sounds like medieval monks, but with fatboy slim involved. >> yeah, well, it's erasure, it's erasure doing it, you know? so i think synthpop and latin, we had enough of that fusion. >> i think if anything , you can >> i think if anything, you can blame the romans. yes, they did a lot of things, but they really didn't nail the synth pop. >> they didn't. >> they didn't. >> he really didn't. that's a problem right there. >> he really didn't. that's a pro yeah,right there. >> he really didn't. that's a pro yeah,right a1ere. >> he really didn't. that's a pro yeah,right a problem. do you >> yeah, it is a problem. do you like of, uh, like that sort of, uh, blend that quite a curious mix. that was quite a curious mix. >> terrifying. >> it's quite terrifying. music video doctor . video as well. quite doctor. >> cabinet of caligari. yeah. they've gone dark with that,

which i thought was quite interesting. >> not heard that one either, but i've heard that one ehhen >> maybe it's cause jewish. ehhen >wasn't)e it's cause jewish. ehhen >wasn't allowed use jewish. ehhen >wasn't allowed uselistenewish. i wasn't allowed to listen to christmas music. maybe. >> very much >> and that's very much a christian kind of music. yeah. latin some latin thing. i've got some hanukkah latin thing. i've got some harhave�*i latin thing. i've got some harhave you? yeah. >> have you? yeah. >> have you? yeah. >> should have brought >> you should have brought them with look, with you. okay, well, look, those christmas those are our christmas songs. that's a good rate for the loan. >> that's christmas song. that's a good rate for the loan. >> what; christmas song. that's a good rate for the loan. >> what; what?:mas song. that's a good rate for the loan. >> what; what? has song. that's a good rate for the loan. >> what; what? i didn't1g. that's a good rate for the loan. >> what; what? i didn't even >> what did what? i didn't even hear that move. >> what did what? i didn't even heastraight ove. >> what did what? i didn't even heastraight one. >> what did what? i didn't even heastraight on or apologise for >> straight on or apologise for it. >> it's one it. — >> it's one of it. >> it's one of those it. — >> it's one of those i it. >> it's one of those i don't. >> going to apologise >> i'm going to just apologise just just just just in case. uh just just just on of taste . i don't on a matter of taste. i don't know he was doing there know what he was doing there anyway, to anyway, up next, we're going to be the aviva who be discussing the aviva boss who hit the headlines earlier this month for saying that any senior white hire had to be run past her first. see you shortly . she .

welcome back to this saturday night showdown with me. andrew

doyle. so amanda blanc, the chief executive of insurance company aviva, has been in the news of late. she's revealed that no white males can be recruited to senior posts without her say so under new diversity, equity and inclusion guidance . alcazar cuthbert is guidance. alcazar cuthbert is director of campaign group don't divide us. she has written about this and joins me now. alka welcome to the show. do you want to give us initial thoughts to give us your initial thoughts on this? when you first heard about this policy , uh, what did about this policy, uh, what did you of it ? you make of it? >> uh , i was horrified . you make of it? >> uh , i was horrified. um, i >> uh, i was horrified. um, i was really quite horrified. recently we've seen on our streets the kind of logic of this kind of identity politics played out in terms of decolonisation . um, and i think decolonisation. um, and i think in the hands of a chief executive like amanda blank, we see what this what this same ideology , how this plays out in ideology, how this plays out in the workforce , which is i mean, the workforce, which is i mean, she's basically she's saying you don't need to read between any lines. she's very explicit. it's

not you're a problem. because if you say anything wrong or if you speak incorrectly or you're rude, you are a problem. if you are white and if you are male, you're, you know, you you're very existence is such that you do merit another , another kind do merit another, another kind of hoop to jump through . i can't of hoop to jump through. i can't see how that's not discrimination on. i can't see how that doesn't go against the equality act. presumably amanda blank or people who agree with this kind of approach would argue that they are effectively providing a remedy for past discrimination. >> as ibram x kendi writes, the only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. what do you make of that idea ? of that idea? >> it's nonsensical . the past >> it's nonsensical. the past discrimination is past. if you want to look at current discrimination, that's a different thing altogether. let's look at it . let's see the let's look at it. let's see the evidence. let's have some proper, um, proper scrutiny for any , um, where there is

any, um, where there is discrimination and if there is discrimination and if there is discrimination in a workplace , discrimination in a workplace, in a company like aviva , which in a company like aviva, which to be honest, i would start off from a fairly sceptical position because, you know , our society because, you know, our society has moved on. there are now hr practices in every major company that would make make it difficult to discriminate. i'm not saying it's impossible able, but fine. i'm not. and i'm you know, i'm not saying don't do anything about it, but you do something, you know, how is amanda blanc having a final say? so on applicants who are male and white going to help anybody facing discrimination in the workplace. it's a non—sequitur. this is not about that. it's about imposing a new set of beliefs . really. beliefs. really. >> i mean, there are some activists who would say that the idea of a meritocracy is in itself a racist idea . the, uh, itself a racist idea. the, uh, what kind of message do you think that sends to people of colour ? colour? >> well, look , meritocracy on >> well, look, meritocracy on a social level , you know, is social level, you know, is limited, right? depends on major

macro level economics and a whole host of things. but meritocracy within an individual institution or an individual organisation is possible is much more possible than, you know, in society at large . and so if society at large. and so if you're if you know this idea that, um , you know, you need to that, um, you know, you need to protection of edi beliefs and everybody acting according to edi policies to get on if you're not white is frankly patronising. it's patronising for non—white people . um, and for non—white people. um, and it's also authority korean for all of us, really. i mean , it's, all of us, really. i mean, it's, it's really what it's saying is that, you know, if you disagree , that, you know, if you disagree, shut up. because if you if you speak out, um, if you speak out against this , you know, this is against this, you know, this is good. no question. no criticism allowed . and so if you're if allowed. and so if you're if you're for not this, then you can only be not good. >> but but it's a horrible, horrible trap. do you accept though , that a lot of these

though, that a lot of these kinds of policies are well intentioned, that they're coming from a good place ? from a good place? >> you know, andrew, maybe a year ago i would have said yes. and i'm sure i'm not saying everybody that supports this, um, is conspiratorial or is conniving or, you know, sort of bad intentions . and, but it is bad intentions. and, but it is becoming clearer and clearer as time goes on. we see so many, you know, this isn't just, you know , my political belief versus know, my political belief versus theirs . this is a whole swathe theirs. this is a whole swathe of ordinary employees that don't necessarily get onto the news of the media who are who are actually being discriminated against and facing quite horrible practices in their workplaces every day because they fall foul of this , you they fall foul of this, you know, undemocratically imposed new ideology and set of beliefs. so um, i'm finding it more and more difficult to give good faith to that , to, to that faith to that, to, to that argument. i would have done, you know, like i said, i would have

done a year ago. i'm less inclined to that now, but but a lot of the activists will say, and devil's and again, i'm playing devil's advocate and again, i'm playing devil's advimportant that a lot the it's important that a lot of the people who implement ideas people who implement these ideas would say, well, you know, you people who implement these ideas woulcyou'verell, you know, you people who implement these ideas woulcyou've saidyou know, you people who implement these ideas woulcyou've saidyou kncshowu alka, you've said on my show before, you have experienced racism and that all racism yourself and that all these people are saying is that they're address racism. >> f- e that their racism. >> that their belief >> it's just that their belief is is something that is that racism is something that is that racism is something that is embedded and is deeply embedded and structural , and therefore the structural, and therefore the only you can it is only way you can address it is with, uh, dei policies . with, uh, dei policies. >> well, i think you need to look very carefully at i think , look very carefully at i think, and we need to think a bit harder about what dei is and what it represents. right? yes i have suffered racism in the past , but on an individual level, a philosophical individual level, ihave philosophical individual level, i have not let that define me. other people may choose different, may choose to respond in a different way. that's on that level. it's an individual choice . but if the kind of, um, choice. but if the kind of, um, if the kind of everyday multicultural ethos and the attempts to combat racism that

most of us believe in, that we've had in place for the best part of the post war period , if part of the post war period, if they had, if they had to work and they have worked generally they've been quite successful. we have made progress. then there are important preconditions. and three of those pre conditions are that freedom of speech is protected and that none of the public institutions who want to support celebrating different cultures and make trying to make non—white people or minorities feel welcome, that none of those bodies enforce it or impose it upon individuals. bodies enforce it or impose it upon individuals . and the third upon individuals. and the third one is that, you know, they need to be democratically accountable . and you can see, you know , all . and you can see, you know, all three of those conditions are really weak today. if they exist at all in some places now , in at all in some places now, in that context , um, you have to that context, um, you have to look at, you know , it is day look at, you know, it is day after day policies going to help any who are they helping ? you any who are they helping? you know, they're not helping the,

um, anybody who is an ordinary worker , black or white or brown, worker, black or white or brown, um, who may who may , who may um, who may who may, who may want, who may be suffering discrimination and they will find themselves in a workplace. just think about it. if i wanted if i was facing , if i was if i was facing, if i was unsure, i think, am i being is that person being racist ? am that person being racist? am i being discriminated against? if i were in a workplace, i would find it really difficult to speak because as soon as speak out because as soon as i speak out because as soon as i speak out, i will be put in a box as a victim and i will kind of lose control over my own narrative, over my own sense of , narrative, over my own sense of, you know, this is, you know , you know, this is, you know, that's going to happen because all the policies are in place. so there's no space for good faith conversation for people to address problems where they may exist. that's why it's so, you know, it feels such a kind of choking culture when you're when you're in it. um and that, you know, i can't see how anything good can come out of that. well alka sehgal, cuthbert, thank you so much forjoining us tonight so much for joining us tonight on the show. >> appreciate it . so

>> really appreciate it. so i should say that alka is the director of don't divide us , director of don't divide us, which is a group that's an anti—racist group in the traditional sense of the word, trying to resolve some of these issues and some of the divisions that caused by kind of that are caused by these kind of dei policies. check them out dei policies. so check them out at, uh, don't divide us now on twitter. plenty more to twitter. there is plenty more to come. uh, on saturday come. uh, still on saturday night showdown, we've discussed our favourite christmas songs already and i'm just about to reveal my favourite christmas movies , and we're going to see movies, and we're going to see if my panel agree with me. this could get quite controversial , could get quite controversial, so stick with us. so do stick around with us. looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb. >> news . >> news. >> news. >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather. i'm ellie glaisyer looking towards christmas and it's looking like it's staying cloudy and damp for most of us, with temperatures generally above average for the time of year , low pressure time of year, low pressure continues out towards the continues to sit out towards the northwest, bringing northwest, slowly bringing frontal systems across the uk

through the rest of the weekend and towards christmas and in towards the christmas period. rain that's been period. heavy rain that's been across parts of western scotland gradually ease, but gradually starts to ease, but turns heavier across western parts wales we could see up parts of wales we could see up to 18mm here, and generally quite cloudy picture for much quite a cloudy picture for much of england wales. some of england and wales. some clearer spells further north, but blustery showers pushing in from west and feeling from the west and feeling a little chillier here. little bit chillier here. however will milder however it will be much milder further south with perhaps 11 or 12 degrees, so a very mild, cloudy and damp start for much of england and wales on christmas eve. rain continues to spread its way eastwards as we head into towards afternoon. head into towards the afternoon. some sunshine across parts of northern ireland, northern england scotland, plenty england and scotland, but plenty of blustery showers around and some very strong winds across north england , perhaps north northeast england, perhaps up to miles an hour. up to 70 miles an hour. temperatures still above average across board , perhaps 13 or across the board, perhaps 13 or 14 degrees to start on christmas day. another wet and cloudy picture for much of england and wales. heavy rain spreads in from the west, slowly clearing its way eastwards as we go

through the day further north there will be some brighter spells, but another band rain spells, but another band of rain pushes northwards into spells, but another band of rain pusheof northwards into spells, but another band of rain pusheof scotland, thwards into spells, but another band of rain pusheof scotland, perhaps into parts of scotland, perhaps bringing to some high bringing some snow to some high ground. looking drier and brighter day. but brighter on boxing day. but further wet and windy weather on the . the way. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on .

gb news. way. welcome back. >> still to come on the saturday night showdown , i'm about to night showdown, i'm about to count down my favourite christmas movies and we'll see if my panel agrees with my picks. the government have unveiled their trans guidance for children this week, and we're going to be discussing their plans and i will ask my panel what they think makes a perfect christmas . this is your perfect christmas. this is your saturday night showdown .

so join us in a moment. but first, let's get the news headunes first, let's get the news headlines from sophia . headlines from sophia. >> good evening. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. hundreds of pro—palestinian protesters have been rallying in central . london spire now central. london spire now ceasefire, now ceasefire now . ceasefire, now ceasefire now. the demonstrators were urging christmas shoppers to boycott what they say are pro—israel brands. traffic on oxford street was brought to a standstill as crowds chanted don't fund genocide. security guards blocked the entrance to fashion shop zara, while dozens of officers followed the march. police say there were no arrests

. meanwhile, today's been dubbed super saturday, tipped to be the busiest in—store shopping day of the year . busiest in—store shopping day of the year. last year, shoppers were said to have spent over £1.5 million buying last minute christmas gifts . the great christmas gifts. the great christmas gifts. the great christmas getaway is well and truly underway , the aa says. truly underway, the aa says. it's the busiest day of the pre—christmas period, with an expected 16.5 million extra cars on the road . travellers have on the road. travellers have been facing delays by road and rail, with train passengers deaung rail, with train passengers dealing with cancellations. more disruption is expected tomorrow as london's king's cross and paddington stations close for engineering works . this travel engineering works. this travel expert, simon calder , says expert, simon calder, says people really need to plan their journeys carefully . journeys carefully. >> so let's start at london paddington because we know that all the trains are going to stop as from late tonight. there won't be any until the 28th of december. we are seeing train cancellations to bristol , to cancellations to bristol, to cardiff and coming back in the opposite direction due to shortage of train crew. the

nonh shortage of train crew. the north of england is going to be even worse . northern trains has even worse. northern trains has said. do not travel on some of our key routes. we won't have any trains, we can't get the staff to run them . staff to run them. >> police have arrested a man on suspicion of theft after the removal of a banksy in south east london. the piece , a stop east london. the piece, a stop sign covered with three aircrafts that look like military drones, was discovered at an intersection in peckham yesterday. less than an hour after the artist confirmed the installation was genuine. witnesses saw it being removed by a man with bolt cutters. the met police say they have since arrested a man who remains in custody and history has been made, with rebecca welch becoming the first woman to referee a premier league match. the 40 year old took charge of this afternoon's fulham burnley game. she began refereeing in 2010 and in january became the first female to officiate a men's championship match. burnley won the game two nil. this is gb news across the uk on

tv, in your car, on your digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now it's back to . andrew. welcome back to back to. andrew. welcome back to the saturday night showdown with me , andrew doyle. me, andrew doyle. >> so over the christmas period, we'll have plenty of time to we'll all have plenty of time to watch tv as a means to avoid conversation with the family. but what to watch? well, i thought give some thought i'd give you some suggestions by compiling my top ten christmas movies ten favourite christmas movies of all time. now, i should warn you, definition a you, my definition of a christmas might differ christmas movie might differ from as far as i'm from yours. as far as i'm concerned, is set concerned, any film that is set at christmas qualifies as a christmas film, even if it's not actually about christmas. so with that caveat out of the way, let's start. so you've got mail was the first dvd i ever bought dvd. that's how old and primitive i am . and i really primitive i am. and i really love you've got mail, although it's often unfairly dismissed as a poor man's sleeping in seattle

, i think it's actually better than sleeping in seattle. you know, i think the script is stronger. think the chemistry stronger. i think the chemistry between tom hanks and ryan between tom hanks and meg ryan is sparkier . and given that most is sparkier. and given that most relationships now begin online, uh, between avatars who uh, usually between avatars who are in no way resemble their owners, this film feel owners, this film does feel prescient. so at number nine, we have this eyes wide shut. so what better way to celebrate the festive season than with this creepy erotic psycho drama? it was the last film by stanley kubnck was the last film by stanley kubrick and starred tom cruise and nicole kidman in a dysfunctional marriage. i wonder how they managed to pull that off. it includes scenes of infidelity, depraved orgies with masked strangers, and scenes of psychological intimidation . so psychological intimidation. so fun for all the family. psychological intimidation. so fun for all the family . and next fun for all the family. and next up, we have die hard. this usually tops people's favourite christmas films of all time . christmas films of all time. late 80s action films tend to be the best because this was just before cgi kicked in and everything started looking vaguely like a cartoon . it means vaguely like a cartoon. it means the action sequences feel

authentic. there's a sense of jeopardy! and bruce willis is obviously brilliant, and alan rickman is rather wonderful as the villain, as well. so let's move on to the next one. uh, this rocky for four. now, if this is rocky for four. now, if some of you are getting annoyed that choosing films that that i keep choosing films that are christmas but aren't are set at christmas but aren't really one really about christmas, this one will because will really bother you because there's remotely there's nothing remotely christmassy rocky other christmassy about rocky other than fact that he sounds than the fact that he sounds a bit drunk. but the final fight between rocky and dolph lundgren takes place in the soviet union on christmas day. you see? so there's lots of opportunities for extended montages of training in the snow. great stuff like that. very festive, i think. and uh, this one is another film directed and co—written by nora ephron, who was also responsible for you've got mail . uh, this is mixed nuts got mail. uh, this is mixed nuts , and it might not be the best of her films, but got an of her films, but it's got an incredible cast and i think steve martin is a genius. this film last film has one of the last performances ever by madeline kahn, to my mind, one of kahn, who is to my mind, one of the best comedic who the best comedic actors who ever lived. watching lived. so it's worth watching just her moving on to batman

just for her moving on to batman returns. so there's a really memorable fight scene in batman returns where michelle pfeiffer, as the catwoman licks batman's face under the mistletoe. now, i'm not a big fan of tim burton, by the way, but this is one of his best. and unlike the ponderous batman films by christopher nolan, it really doesn't take itself too seriously . let's not forget seriously. let's not forget that, about that, really, it's all about a grown man around in a grown man jumping around in a stupid it's not citizen stupid cape. it's not citizen kane. stupid cape. it's not citizen kane . let's move on to this film kane. let's move on to this film now . this is a kane. let's move on to this film now. this is a wonderful christmas film called the long kiss now whenever i kiss goodnight. now whenever i hear about how groundbreaking it is to see films like captain marvel a female action marvel with a female action hero, think about all hero, i just think about all those female action stars of the past completely past who are being completely overlooked sigourney weaver, linda hamilton, pam grier, uma thurman, kathleen turner i mean , thurman, kathleen turner i mean, there have so many . it's there have been so many. it's just that we didn't use to obsess identity politics so obsess over identity politics so much didn't really notice. much so we didn't really notice. now the long kiss now geena davis in the long kiss goodnight is basically he's one of the best action movie heroes of the best action movie heroes of and set at of either sex, and it's set at christmas as well. and got christmas as well. and it's got samuel jackson in a supporting

samuel ljackson in a supporting role. so what's not to um, role. so what's not to like? um, next this film , next up, we've got this film, trading now, i think trading places. now, i think eddie murphy there eddie murphy is right up there with madeline kahn as of the with madeline kahn as one of the very comedic of very best comedic actors of all time. coming to time. and before coming to america , he collaborated america, he collaborated with director landis on this director john landis on this film two corrupt film about two corrupt businessmen who have a bet to see if they can reverse the fortunes of a homeless man. played murphy, and one played by eddie murphy, and one of their affluent corporate employees , played by dan employees, played by dan aykroyd. brilliant aykroyd. and it's a brilliant concept, it's a witty script, and very funny and and it's very, very funny and this one you've all seen, surely scrooged and scrooge is probably the, uh , the first on this list the, uh, the first on this list thatis the, uh, the first on this list that is actually, indisputably a christmas film. it's based on a christmas film. it's based on a christmas carol by charles dickens. can't get much more christmassy than and it's christmassy than that. and it's bill murray at his best, and it's got a really standout bill murray at his best, and it's got a rea by standout bill murray at his best, and it's got a rea by carolout bill murray at his best, and it's got a rea by carol kane as the performance by carol kane as the ghost of christmas present. it's dark. consistently funny. dark. it's consistently funny. the ending cheesy as hell, the ending is cheesy as hell, but you know, it's christmas , so but you know, it's christmas, so we can forgive a touch of mawkishness. and i think the best christmas film all time best christmas film of all time is obviously gremlins. it's

obvious it's a satire of the kind of schmaltzy , sentimental kind of schmaltzy, sentimental films we like to watch at christmas . it's silly films we like to watch at christmas. it's silly and violent, and it's a lot of fun. and i think the gremlins themselves are a fitting metaphor for social justice activists, because they started off all cute and cuddly and then they turned into ravenous monsters with an unappeasable bloodlust . so if you haven't bloodlust. so if you haven't seen gremlins, please do try that on christmas day. maybe that out on christmas day. maybe just king's speech and just after the king's speech and those let's see those are my top ten. let's see what panel think. i'm here what my panel think. i'm here with brilliant comedians with the brilliant comedians chris with the brilliant comedians chns and with the brilliant comedians chris and steve allen, chris de wet and steve allen, and jonathan kogan. cressida, do you like those picks? do you think them think i'm right? lots of them look think i'm right? lots of them loo quite of violence in >> quite a lot of violence in there, i noticed. >> that's light motif of >> that's the light motif of those are you suggesting those films. are you suggesting that's something about my psychology ? psychology? >> i think it might be. i wouldn't i wouldn't associate boxing christmas. you boxing with christmas. but you did to see did explain that i want to see the one, the nuts one. what makes mixed nuts. makes nuts mixed nuts. >> it's very, very good. it's great, great, it's great. >> it's very, very good. it's greéwhat great, it's great. >> it's very, very good. it's greéwhat ijreat, it's great. >> it's very, very good. it's greéwhat i mean, t's great. >> it's very, very good. it's greéwhat i mean, like,eat. >> it's very, very good. it's greéwhat i mean, like,eithink but what i mean, like, i think i was a similar was making a similar point, a serious long serious point about the long kiss that, you kiss goodnight in that, you know. oh, yeah. >> absolutely.

know. oh, yeah. >> absonealy. know. oh, yeah. >> absonealythe >> it's one of the most i watched it again recently and it is really brilliant, stupid is a really brilliant, stupid action that really doesn't action film that really doesn't take itself seriously. >> trained assassin >> secret trained assassin doesn't yeah. doesn't know. yeah. >> so she's a mother. >> she's so she's a mother. she's like part of the pta . and she's like part of the pta. and she. she dresses up as santa and make kids . make bakes cookies for the kids. but what happened was it was super yeah but she was an super speed. yeah but she was an assassin, right? who knocked her head forgot she head and then forgot that she was in the film , was an assassin. so in the film, she suddenly realises that she can. she's got an incredible fighting and gun skills. >> i actually watched 20 minutes of this at a cambodian bus station when i was travelling on 19, and it was the first time i'd ever taken, and only time i'd ever taken, and only time i'd xanax. and i'd ever taken xanax. and i remember being extremely confused the sound confused because the sound wasn't watching wasn't on. yeah, just watching and i was and chop up a carrot. i was like, on? this is and chop up a carrot. i was likeweirdest on? this is and chop up a carrot. i was likeweirdest cooking? this is and chop up a carrot. i was likeweirdest cooking show. is and chop up a carrot. i was likeweirdest cooking show i've the weirdest cooking show i've ever seen. but now i you ever seen. but now i now you know, it's really watching ever seen. but now i now you krisv, it's really watching ever seen. but now i now you krisv, it'sviolent. watching it is very violent. >> okay, i will say that all christmas basically the bourne identity. >> but before the bourne identity it might be. identity it might well be. >> although wasn't the >> yes. although wasn't the bourne on bourne identity based on a novel, probably predates novel, which probably predates the goodnight? the long kiss goodnight? >> who the >> so now we know who nicked the idea. suggesting

idea. well, i'm not suggesting plagiarism by any means , plagiarism by any by any means, but let's just let's just get down to brass tacks here. >> is it controversial for me to suggest gremlins is the suggest that gremlins is the best christmas film of all time ? best christmas film of all time? >> it at christmas? >> is it set at christmas? >> is it set at christmas? >> yeah, much so. i mean, >> yeah, very much so. i mean, there's i mean, someone dies under tree one point. >> okay. yeah, that's pretty good. missed good. i mean, you have missed out. wonderful life. good. i mean, you have missed omean, wonderful life. good. i mean, you have missed omean, i wonderful life. good. i mean, you have missed omean, i havewonderful life. good. i mean, you have missed omean, i havewonderfout.fe. i mean, i have missed out. >> a wonderful life. >> it's a wonderful life. >> it's a wonderful life. >> enough i don't know. >> no. yeah no one, there's >> no. yeah no one, uh, there's no bazookas, no one throws a knife someone. uh no one gets knife at someone. uh no one gets crushed a christmas tree. crushed under a christmas tree. no one gets eaten death no one gets eaten to death by beasts. is effectively >> but it is effectively an alternate film. it's alternate reality film. it's a multiverse . so it is just multiverse film. so it is just getting around to doing it. and it's a wonderful life basically did it first. it's a wonderful life basically did and'st. it's a wonderful life basically did and also it's a wonderful >> and also it's a wonderful life. a bit life. i think it's a bit too obvious, , it's too obvious, you know, and it's too happy. obvious, you know, and it's too happy . and i think we have to happy. and i think we have to kind accept that kind of just accept that christmas lot of people is christmas for a lot of people is a miserable time of year. >> well, this is why i, like, die much. i'm not die hard so much. i'm not sure your . if it's your definition. if it's somewhere in december, it's a christmas it's weak, christmas film. it's a bit weak, but no , no, all those but no, no, no, all of those films actually on films are actually set on christmas day. so, uh, for me,

die does resonate die hard actually does resonate with of christmas with the feeling of christmas because around christmas, a lot of cause harm to of us want to cause harm to people in offices. yes that's true. i've been to one of those parties like, oh, only parties like, oh, if only someone up gruber someone would turn up and gruber this did forget about this place. we did forget about die which is also set this place. we did forget about di> i haven't watched a film since 1991, watching all those films. >> w- w a small child. >> when you were a small child. why yeah some of them why not? yeah some of them looked unsavoury no , looked unsavoury and. no, no, some not around some of them were not around when small to when i was a small child, to be fair, was shown fair, um, die hard two was shown on itv and they used to put the news the middle. news in the middle. >> they they bleeped out the key word. they they word. yes, they did, but they didn't do rest of it.

didn't do the rest of it. >> the yippee >> yeah, the yippee k father christmas mother father or whatever, whatever he says. any other films that i've missed out of that? home alone, home alone . of that? home alone, home alone. now? it's interesting. i actually prefer two. actually prefer home alone two. okay. set at okay. which is also set at christmas with boy rob. christmas with your boy rob. >> schneider is in there. >> rob schneider is in there. >> rob schneider is in there. >> absolutely. >> rob schneider is in there. >> bell lutely. >> rob schneider is in there. >> bell boy ly. >> rob schneider is in there. >> bell boy bell. >> rob schneider is in there. >> yes. boy bell. >> rob schneider is in there. >> yes. and,bell. >> rob schneider is in there. >> yes. and, uh,. >> rob schneider is in there. >> yes. and, uh, tim curry tim curry, fantastic actor. >> rip . >> rip. >> rip. >> yes. no, he's still alive. >> yes. no, he's still alive. >> know, there's a >> i know, but there's like a rumour the internet. >> no, he's still alive. very much still alive. um, yeah. and >> no, he's still alive. very mucschneider,a. um, yeah. and >> no, he's still alive. very mucschneider,a. lyou yeah. and >> no, he's still alive. very mucschneider,a. lyou say,. and >> no, he's still alive. very mucschneider,a. lyou say, and, rob schneider, as you say, and, um, trump. yes makes an um, donald trump. yes makes an appearance in home alone two. come appearance in home alone two. con right? >> right? no. >> right? no. >> there some activists >> so there were some activists trying directors to trying to get the directors to make without donald make a recut without donald trump macaulay culkin trump and macaulay culkin tweeting saying, i would be tweeting and saying, i would be for all that. so he's a revisionist. he's a stalinist. uh, who knew eras tour. yes, absolutely. >> so it's more surely he realises that if they do an edit, it gets shown , he gets a edit, it gets shown, he gets a little bit of kickback in the residuals. think what residuals. you think that's what it yeah. residuals. you think that's what it yethe's worth billion. >> no, he's worth £1 billion. >> no, he's worth £1 billion. >> culkin yeah, my hero. >> one more. >> one more. >> okay. have you seen home alone three? no, i refused because macaulay culkin is not in i'm a purist. you're the

>> and i'm a purist. you're the purist, he says. >> how can the same beep happen to no, to the same? no, actually, no, that's alone. no, that's not the home alone. no, no, other one. no, that's the other one. >> say in third >> he should say it in the third one. should but say, how >> he should say it in the third one.the should but say, how >> he should say it in the third one.the samejld but say, how >> he should say it in the third one.the same thing but say, how >> he should say it in the third one.the same thing happen', how >> he should say it in the third one.the same thing happen to ow can the same thing happen to the same but for some same guy thrice? but for some reason, don't that works reason, i don't think that works because don't the because people don't use the word no. and by word thrice enough. no. and by the fifth version of die the fifth version of the die hard. word that? no. >> by then he should be. >> but by then he should be. yeah, to me. yeah, yeah, this happens to me. he just worked he should have just worked it out by now. >> well, think we've >> okay, well, i think we've covered the movies. what about christmas mean, there christmas tv? i mean, is there anything that people particularly watch? particularly like to watch? i mean, king's speech mean, there's the king's speech obviously, mean, there's the king's speech obv going uh, what else? >> my brother always watch the three three amigos? >> the three amigos? >> the three amigos? >> go to think >> the three amigos? >appreciate go to think >> the three amigos? >appreciate it's go to think >> the three amigos? >appreciate it's not» to think >> the three amigos? >appreciate it's not set think >> the three amigos? >appreciate it's not set at hink i appreciate it's not set at christmas and it's not christmassy, but it's always on at christmas. set at christmas. no, it's set at summer think. summer in mexico, i think. >> it's >> yes, yes, annoyingly, it's a way martin way better steve martin enjoyable film mixed nuts. enjoyable film than mixed nuts. >> for that. it's >> no offence for that. it's no, no agree that i agree that >> no, i agree that i agree that that nuts isn't the that that mixed nuts isn't the best of steve martin's films. i just think it's festive and i really like madeline kahn. i really like madeline kahn. so i think was all i was getting think that was all i was getting out but not have out there. but let's not have a row it. steve, i don't row about it. steve, i don't think know christmas. i

think you know christmas. i mean, three amigos is a wonderful film, just not festive. it's strange that that has sort festive has become your sort of festive choice . choice. >> yeah, well, i think it's a light hearted bit of fun. it's a childhood film that didn't disappoint me when watched it disappoint me when i watched it as an adult. yeah, those are rare. hold up, but rare. not to hold up, but actually it actually there's jokes in it that don't get you're that you don't get when you're little. yeah, come around for adulthood. those are very rare. >> interesting that >> isn't it interesting that that's your christmas that's like your christmas tradition? because i find often whenever other whenever i stay at some other family for christmas, they've always traditions that family for christmas, they've a don't traditions that family for christmas, they've a don't understand aditions that family for christmas, they've adon't understand what's; that family for christmas, they've adon't understand what's going i don't understand what's going on. i feel like i'm going slightly that not slightly insane. does that not happen guys of course. happen to you guys? of course. >> every family has own >> every family has its own wacky mom , wacky old things. yeah, my mom, was she, like, she'd get like, a hot teaspoon, make really hot teaspoon, make it really hot, then put on hot, and then just put it on me and not to be and tell me not to be ungrateful. that's ungrateful. ah. because that's just what do in your just what you do in your household just what you do in your h0landyld when they to >> and it's when they do it to the guests think, yeah, the guests that i think, yeah, people complain. >> remembered snowman people complain. >that's remembered snowman people complain. >that's aremembered snowman people complain. >that's a great1bered snowman people complain. >that's a great movie. snowman people complain. >that's a great movie. when)wman people complain. >that's a great movie. when he nan . that's a great movie. when he melts that's that's melts at the end, that's that's so snowman. absolutely. >> the snowman. yes, absolutely. >> the snowman. yes, absolutely. >> then the same, uh, >> yeah. but then the same, uh, writer raymond williams, wasn't it christmas show ? it the christmas tv show? >> yeah. no, i'm thinking of the, blows, the, um. when the wind blows, which elderly which was about an elderly couple in a nuclear couple who die in a nuclear holocaust. yeah so he didn't do.

and watched as a kid and i watched that as a kid melting. i yeah, i loved the melting. no, i yeah, i loved the snowman so i snowman as a kid. so then i watched when the wind blows and then elderly couple, they then the elderly couple, they make shelter, think make a shelter, and you think they're and they're going to be okay and they're going to be okay and they die. they. they just die. they. >> they mattress against >> they just mattress against the don't see the >> they just mattress against the coming, don't see the >> they just mattress against the coming, but)n't see the >> they just mattress against the coming, but why;ee theyou death coming, but why would you let neutron ? let up the neutron? >> extreme >> i think watching extreme violence as a child is much better for you than watching that of psychological that kind of psychological torture. and i don't know why i'm pointing at you like it's your fault. cressida i'm pointing at you like it's youwell,t. cressida i'm pointing at you like it's youwell, you're;ida i'm pointing at you like it's youwell, you're right, didn't >> well, you're right, i didn't watch violence at all watch very much violence at all as i'm weak. look. watch very much violence at all as look i'm weak. look. watch very much violence at all as look at i'm weak. look. watch very much violence at all as look at you weak. look. watch very much violence at all as look at you now. look. >> look at you now. >> look at you now. >> radicalised me, whereas >> yeah. radicalised me, whereas look at me. >> barely and butch and >> i'm barely and butch and should have been in the territorial army. >> terrifying. >> terrifying. >> yeah, absolutely. okay well, i pretty much i think we've pretty much covered for covered the entertainments for this do have, this year. uh, but we do have, uh, three amazing prizes that are guaranteed to be won by one lucky viewer in our great british giveaway. very exciting. £10,000 cash and vouchers . and £10,000 cash and vouchers. and if you haven't entered yet, why on earth not? it's so easy and here's how you go about it. you

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good luck. and next on the saturday night showdown , we'll saturday night showdown, we'll be discussing a passion of mine free speech. >> baroness claire fox will be here to discuss where we are and what can be done to protect free speech in 2024. please do not go anywhere

to gb news radio. late ? to gb news radio. late? >> get up this christmas eve and christmas day. wake up with gb news for the finest festive start to your christmas for you and the whole family christmas breakfast on news christmas breakfast on gb news christmas eve and christmas day from 6 am. i got you this. eve and christmas day from 6 am. i got you this . oh good. am. i got you this. oh good. okay. um i got you a little something . oh something. oh >> ah, sure. it's nice .

>> ah, sure. it's nice. >> welcome back to the saturday night showdown. as you may or may not know, i present a show on gb news every sunday called free speech nation. we're having a for off christmas, so a week for off christmas, so i wanted use this to wanted to use this chance to catch of my catch up with one of my favourite guests, baroness claire fox, see what she is claire fox, and see what she is hoping to in good hoping to see in 2024. good evening claire, thanks so much for joining me. i want to ask forjoining me. i want to ask you specifically about free speech. been such a speech. you've been such a champion of free speech over the years and now you continue to do so from the of lords. um, so from the house of lords. um, but tell us, where are at but tell us, where are we at with free speech at the moment? because every then because every now and then i feel that we're making progress. and sometimes i we're and sometimes i feel we're regressing. think, regressing. do you think, do you think caused to think i've caused to be optimistic? generally . optimistic? generally. >> so i want to say that we should be optimistic because in some ways, many of the issues that you and i would have worried about, where we thought that people didn't notice , that that people didn't notice, that there was a clampdown on free speech, for example, around the issues of gender or sex or indeed things that were

happening on campus have almost spilt out onto the streets , and spilt out onto the streets, and therefore more people have seen them . you know, whether that was them. you know, whether that was dunng them. you know, whether that was during the black lives matter them. you know, whether that was during the black of'es matter them. you know, whether that was during the black of decolonise , period, the issue of decolonise, which seemed like one of those tiny little things that suddenly become a massive issue because of relation of what's happening in relation to gaza and on, to israel and gaza and so on, and , you could say and therefore, you could say more people know about it and more people know about it and more people know about it and more people will be up in arms. however, this is the downside. the downside is, is that these days, if you say to somebody that censorship, they say, so what? you know , there is no what? you know, there is no longer an assumption that being for free speech is a positive value in society. even in a democracy . so i think that we democracy. so i think that we have to be on our guard. and even, i mean, i, i know you were on a panel that i chaired on the culture wars and whether the culture wars and whether the culture wars and whether the culture wars is an irrelevance . culture wars is an irrelevance. so a discussion we had at the battle festival, so so a discussion we had at the battle people festival, so so a discussion we had at the battle people say�*stival, so so a discussion we had at the battle people say to val, so so a discussion we had at the battle people say to me,so so a discussion we had at the battle people say to me, oh, you many people say to me, oh, you know, the thing is, the culture wars is just superficial . you wars is just superficial. you know, it's bound to fizzle out. it's going away . um, it's

it's going to go away. um, it's overblown. we've seen the end of it, actually. if anything, it's becoming more entrenched deeper and more sinister. and so, although i'm optimistic about the fact that more people realise there's a crisis of free speech, i'm not as optimistic that we can be completely out unless we have shows like yours. organisations like my own, the academy of ideas and we're constantly on the lookout for ways of explaining to a new generation why free speech is so important to them. >> i think that's one of the concerns i have, is that i always like to stick up for the younger generation and say that they're censorious they're not as censorious and authoritarian as everyone thinks, these surveys thinks, but then these surveys keep that show that keep coming out that show that a lot of the younger generation do support censorship, particularly on university campus . support censorship, particularly on university campus. um, do you think that's the problem really, that that people universities that that people at universities are being told that censorship is a good thing ? is a good thing? >> well, it's starting much earlier, i'm afraid. i mean, i think that schools have become

responsible for, on the one hand, um, pander often to young people. you know, if , you know, people. you know, if, you know, there's a crisis of adult authorities in many ways , um, authorities in many ways, um, young people can have always been thought that they knew it all. and but the role of adults was to say, no, you don't, or to at least challenge them and not to affirm every single, you know, bit of ignorance that they come out with these days , it's come out with these days, it's become more fashionable for adults to kind of think, oh, well, what do we know? this is a new generation of radicals that was insightful and they was so insightful and they understand the massive world of onune understand the massive world of online issues. understand the massive world of online issues . and what how can online issues. and what how can we say anything ? and that's one we say anything? and that's one of the problems, you know, that that if you look in schools ever earlier than even university , earlier than even university, see, you'll find that teachers are intimidated by pupils who'll say we should decolonise the curriculum . and instead of curriculum. and instead of saying, what are you talking about ? i'm here on the about? i'm here to pass on the best known and thought. about? i'm here to pass on the bestthey known and thought. about? i'm here to pass on the bestthey sortown and thought. about? i'm here to pass on the bestthey sort ofn and thought. about? i'm here to pass on the bestthey sort of go,|d thought. about? i'm here to pass on the bestthey sort of go, oh hought. about? i'm here to pass on the bestthey sort of go, oh ,ought. about? i'm here to pass on the bestthey sort of go, oh , maybe and they sort of go, oh, maybe i'm old fashioned and i'm a bit old fashioned and traditional . so think that

traditional. so i think that crisis is one that generation crisis is one that my generation and, and younger generations have made, and the very young generations are suffering the consequence of a failure for us to in some ways face down their ignorance . um, you know that ignorance. um, you know that there are some worrying aspects of this that are not just because sometimes people say to me, oh, you know, claire, you're always going on about free speech, but it sounds so abstract. you know , there's a abstract. you know, there's a cost of living crisis. people have lots. there's wars have got lots. there's wars going on. what about climate have got lots. there's wars going 0 and hat about climate have got lots. there's wars going oand so: about climate have got lots. there's wars going 0 and so on. out climate have got lots. there's wars going oand so on. but:limate have got lots. there's wars going oand so on. but:lithink change and so on. but i think that in a very that we can see in a very visible way in relation to what's happened with israel and gaza , that, you know, you there gaza, that, you know, you there are consequences to these things, right? and this is you're asking what i think about 2024. one of my major dilemmas at the moment is the absolute rotting, uh , you know, vicious rotting, uh, you know, vicious anti semitism that we've seen over openly expressed in western countries in the uk, all in the name by the way of

decolonisation . and i, i decolonisation. and i, i immediately want to say sack that person, you know, clamp down on that phrase ban that demonstration. because i'm so concerned to myself at what we're seeing , which is explicit we're seeing, which is explicit racism on the street. and yet we've got to hold our nerve , we've got to hold our nerve, because actually, the reason we know that anti—semitism exists is precisely because people have been to free talk about it , been to free talk about it, exhibit their bigotry. so that we can confront them. but it's based that bigotry often on a very, uh, ill informed understanding of what's happening in the middle east, let alone historically , the let alone historically, the significance of , um, what significance of, um, what anti—semitism means. i mean , i anti—semitism means. i mean, i saw today, i you're all looking christmassy, and i've been discussing christmasy films. i've got a very dull background because i put my laptop away for christmas . because i put my laptop away for christmas. but then i because i put my laptop away for christmas . but then i decided it christmas. but then i decided it was more important to go out at christmas . was more important to go out at christmas. uh, bedlam happening downstairs. but but people were out christmas shopping today , out christmas shopping today, and the next minute there's an

attempt at shouting and screaming . ming at zara. the screaming. ming at zara. the clothes shop, on the basis that somehow this is associated with somebody who has been pro—israel. i mean, if you had a sense of historical, uh, specificity, you would know that trying to close down shops on the basis that it's got some association with jews isn't a good look, you know? so with a very dark period in history shouting the word genocide at anything and everything, shouting the word genocide at anything and everything , that's anything and everything, that's anything and everything, that's a nasty war, a vicious war, but calling it a genocide. all of these terms have very specific, historic meaning. and i know that you are a great supporter of encouraging people to understand history , where these understand history, where these things come from . um, so that things come from. um, so that you might at least pause when you might at least pause when you kind of casually wander into an anti—semitic, uh , you know, an anti—semitic, uh, you know, trope so that that's something that i think is very interesting. >> i think a lot of us have been tested, uh, in recent weeks , uh, tested, uh, in recent weeks, uh, in terms of our commitment to

liberal values, because as you say, there are people there trying to shut down shops. there are there are authoritarians. and i've been a little bit troubled that a lot of the people on free speech side people on the free speech side have have almost abandoned some of principles and of their principles and said, well, solution to well, the only solution to authoritarianism another authoritarianism is another form of . in other of authoritarianism. in other words, sack, uh, university lecturers who are supportive of , lecturers who are supportive of, of israel or palestine or whichever way you want to go. so how do we, uh, retain our resolve when it comes to, as you say, seeing these awful declarations that none of us really want to see in the public square? >> well, i think that i've taken some heart from an american organisation. so i just want to make sure i get it right, which is fire and it stands for the foundation for individual rights and expression. um and they're a fantastic, uh, free speech organisation in, in america who have really held their nerve in relation to those , those, um, relation to those, those, um, instances of university leaders

who, if you remember, suddenly discovered that they were interested in free speech. when asked if the, you know, calling for the genocide, um, of , uh, for the genocide, um, of, uh, jews, uh , might be a problem. jews, uh, might be a problem. right. and they kind of all started to say, well, we believe in free speech. and of course , in free speech. and of course, we were all screaming. lots of screaming, absolute hypocrisy , screaming, absolute hypocrisy, because these people have been the most censorious, uh , in the most censorious, uh, in terms of american university campuses , the people who have campuses, the people who have suddenly discovered free speech as a virtue, for example , you as a virtue, for example, you know, the university union, which been trying to close down gender critical feminist academics for some time. but suddenly, when it comes to israel—palestine, say how dare you? and so on and so forth , you? and so on and so forth, it's very frustrating to see that double standard, but on the other hand, think of the consequences of those of us who know that the importance of an open mind and free expression in being able to argue things out in a rational way. if we become

in a rational way. if we become in doses of giving the authorities the right to close things down on the basis that speech is dangerous , and we have speech is dangerous, and we have to be very clear on that. now, that doesn't mean , for example, that doesn't mean, for example, that doesn't mean, for example, that the, you know, that the state shouldn't have their eye on people who are explicitly supporting islamism . um, i wish supporting islamism. um, i wish that the police would clamp down where there's anti—semitic has and abuse, which is different by the way, to free speech. but to just simply say that a slogan itself should mean that you're arrested, or that any demonstration should be stopped. i am nervous of where on that demonstration somebody is climbing all over. you know , climbing all over. you know, pubuc climbing all over. you know, public buildings. then you know , public buildings. then you know, take them away. right. that's fine me . that in a way, is fine with me. that in a way, is a public order problem. it's not the same as speech prime. and i think we've seen , you know, think we've seen, you know, we're looking ahead, but one of the things is going to happen in 2024. could happen would be the

island would bring in this absolute, incredibly draconian hate speech legislation, which actually, i'm hoping might get kicked down the road. it's in the equivalent of the irish lords in their senate , and they lords in their senate, and they keep putting it off a bit . lords in their senate, and they keep putting it off a bit. but i mean, that gives the authorities incredible power to police your phones , your whatsapp messages, phones, your whatsapp messages, your even if somebody sends you a message which is considered to be hateful, you can be arrested for that. all of these sorts of things are happening in the name of clamping down on hate speech . of clamping down on hate speech. so even when i hear hate speech , so even when i hear hate speech, ihave so even when i hear hate speech, i have to remember that ultimately, the best way to deal with so—called hate speech , with so—called hate speech, which is open to interpretation because i'm accused of hate speech, you're accused of hate speech. uh you know, we're accused of being transphobic or because we don't go along with critical race theory. you might be accused being racist. be accused of being racist. all of things are are of these things are are accusations levelled at us. we have to remember that giving the state or the authorities the power to label things as hate

and then clamp down on them , and then clamp down on them, will mean that we're all silenced . and that's a very silenced. and that's a very dangerous situation . dangerous situation. >> uh, absolutely. excellent point , >> uh, absolutely. excellent point, clare. thank you ever so much for joining point, clare. thank you ever so much forjoining us on the show. much for joining us on the show. really happy christmas. >> i am having a good time. really yeah. >> merry christmas to you too. really yeah. >> some christmas to you too. really yeah. >> some decorations) you too. really yeah. >> some decorations up)u too. really yeah. >> some decorations up .1 too. really yeah. >> some decorations up . so 0. really yeah. >> some decorations up . so very get some decorations up. so very interesting points raised by clare there. i mean, i think she's right to mention is specifically the irish hate crime bill hate speech bill, which i think is absolutely terrifying. i mean, they're talking about, you know, they can confiscate your, your phones and if you might and your computers if you might have material that could be used to stir up hatred. >> i was listening to that thinking about what i might text jonathan if it came in here. and i could get people. that's astonishing, isn't it? >> keep clothes this time. >> could say . i could, of >> i could say. i could, of course. that much trouble . it course. that much trouble. it just seems absolutely bonkers . just seems absolutely bonkers. >> right. hadn't >> that's right. i hadn't thought way. thought of it that way. you could all did it could actually, if we all did it , they'd have. could actually, if we all did it , ththereiave. could actually, if we all did it , ththere comes a point where it >> there comes a point where it wouldn't anything anymore. >> there comes a point where it wouldnbe anything anymore. >> there comes a point where it wouldnbe busy/thing anymore. >> there comes a point where it wouldnbe busy/thing toymore. they'd be so busy trying to arrest they'd be so busy trying to arrethe problem is that the, you

>> the problem is that the, you know, the politicians in ireland are there's no know, the politicians in ireland are this there's no know, the politicians in ireland are this is there's no know, the politicians in ireland are this is going there's no know, the politicians in ireland are this is going to ere's no way this is going to be weaponized common will weaponized. common sense will prevail. course. prevail. they yeah, of course. >> heard before? >> have we heard that before? they've concept they've they've put the concept of and they've legislated it. >> it's on the statute book or they want to put it on the statute books. when asked what they want to put it on the stythea books. when asked what they want to put it on the stythe definitionihen asked what they want to put it on the stythe definition of n asked what they want to put it on the stythe definition of hatred, what is the definition of hatred, they oh, it's anything they say, oh, it's anything that is sort is hateful. they use this sort of weird circular. yeah, complete circular definition. so active is are bound to weaponize it aren't they, steve. >> yeah. and it's, it's wrong to be in this world where we're having the dichotomy of hate versus free speech, because that's not what the argument should about. the should be about. yeah the in fact, best reason to fact, one of the best reason to attack speech is because attack free speech is because it's as excuse by people it's used as an excuse by people who are trying to some hate. who are trying to do some hate. yes, that's not good yes, but that's not a good enough remember was enough excuse. i remember i was just sat there thinking the first did of free first episode you did of free speech the speech nation. i had the pleasure on indeed, pleasure of being on indeed, the week a like a week before when we did a like a test launch. >> rehearsal. yeah test launch. >> and rehearsal. yeah test launch. >> and back earsal. yeah test launch. >> and back then, . yeah test launch. >> and back then, naive! test launch. >> and back then, naive steve, i think saying. yeah, think i was just saying. yeah, free really good. it's free speech is really good. it's just absolutely great. the reason value now just absolutely great. the re because value now just absolutely great. the re because no value now just absolutely great. the re because no seemse now is because no one seems to remember it's like to have

remember what it's like to have the kind of clampdown on the other kind of clampdown on free speech, the one that free speech, not the one that you of you think is getting rid of some hate, that actually you think is getting rid of some hate, that that actually you think is getting rid of some hate, that you at actually you think is getting rid of some hate, that you can't:ually good means that you can't have good stuff the stuff on tv. absolutely. the mary stuff, the mary whitehouse stuff, the church can't, church telling you you can't, you can't think that about round earth's that kind of clampdown you can't think that about round earth':reason ind of clampdown you can't think that about round earth':reason ind cyouampdown you can't think that about round earth':reason ind cyou need)wn you can't think that about round earth':reason ind (you need free is the reason that you need free speech. there's nothing speech. but there's no nothing fuelling that part the fuelling that part of the argument anymore . argument anymore. >> right. i think we >> absolutely right. i think we free speech is just so fundamental. jonathan i don't want you speak. sorry now, want you to speak. sorry now, next saturday night next on the saturday night showdown this week, the government released their guidance on school children who want transition . and we're want to transition. and we're going to discuss what they came up is saturday up with. this is the saturday night showdown . don't go away

radio. welcome back to the saturday night showdown on teachers in england. >> have been told they do not have to address pupils in their chosen pronouns under new government guidance on how to best support transgender students, the draft document,

released by department of released by the department of education states in the absence of preferred pronouns, the child's preferred name should be used schools having a duty used with schools having a duty to bullying is never to ensure bullying is never tolerated. so to discuss this development, i'm joined by the journalist and author helen joyce. helen thanks so much for joining this guidance is joining us. this guidance is long overdue , isn't it? and it's long overdue, isn't it? and it's absolutely necessary . we us this absolutely necessary. we us this guidance has been under development since 2017. >> it was originally tasked to the equality and human rights commission, under its previous management , commission, under its previous management, which was very, very trans activist and very connected with stonewall . and connected with stonewall. and there was a leaked document that really totally misrepresented the law and suggested that children could really change sex, and that if a child said they were a member of the opposite was opposite sex, it was the school's duty along school's legal duty to go along with that, was with that, and that was withdrawn never actually withdrawn and never actually published formally. and since then, been a hot potato then, that's been a hot potato in westminster. been in westminster. it's been bounced around and it went back to the department for education. we several we went through several ministers, the equalities

minister, who's minister, kemi badenoch, who's the who pushed it. the person who was pushed it. number and gone in number 10 has come and gone in different and different positions on it. and finally , finally, more than six finally, finally, more than six years later, this document has come out. and in the meantime , come out. and in the meantime, of course, lots and lots of children have been transitioned at school and the trans sort of social epidemic has spread for six years unchecked. and the people who have misrepresented the law teachers have been the law to teachers have been free do so. so to it's free to do so. so to say it's long overdue really long overdue doesn't even really capture problem . capture the problem. >> how watertight is the >> now, how watertight is the guidance? because, for instance, the lawyer robin moira wright was was on gb news saying that it was unlawful and that actually schools have no effectively saying schools have no responsibility to provide, for instance, single—sex spaces such as toilets and the like . is such as toilets and the like. is that incorrect ? that incorrect? >> robin moira white yeah. so there's a lot of misrepresentation , misrepresentation, misrepresentations in what white says. i'm sorry to say. it's non—statutory guidance. so that's the first thing. but the second thing to say is that it goes through the legal basis for

the points that it makes and so a teacher or a school that decides to ignore that legal basis, even though it's non—statutory guidance, will be ignonng non—statutory guidance, will be ignoring statutory duties. so, for example , there is, despite for example, there is, despite what white says, a legal duty to provide single sex toilets from age eight english schools and age eight in english schools and changing rooms and showers if those offered at all single those are offered at all single sex from 11, and there's no sex from age 11, and there's no wiggle on that. children wiggle room on that. children under a gender under 18 can't get a gender recognition certificate, so their is in all their legal sex is in all circumstances, the same as their biological sex. >> so have schools understood that for records? that for the records? >> have schools because >> i mean, have schools because they need to write ? honestly, they need to write? honestly, lobby groups have been going around telling them that the protected characteristic of gender reassignment, is gender reassignment, which is something different, something completely different, it's you want to it's thinking that you want to be a member of the opposite sex in that's not in some respect. like that's not the wording . they've been in some respect. like that's not the that nording . they've been in some respect. like that's not the that if rding . they've been in some respect. like that's not the that if a ing . they've been in some respect. like that's not the that if a child they've been in some respect. like that's not the that if a child has've been in some respect. like that's not the that if a child has thateen saying that if a child has that protected you protected characteristic, you must them as they're must treat them as if they're the sex. and you the opposite sex. and you absolutely mustn't. many absolutely mustn't. there's many , many statutory duties on schools them to pay schools that require them to pay attention to children's sex. >> now, you mentioned social,

the idea of a social contagion . the idea of a social contagion. and i want to ask you specifically about that because some people, for instance, the interim cass review , suggested interim cass review, suggested that social transitioning as in using the preferred pronouns and the preferred names of children that it's not a neutral act . so that it's not a neutral act. so that it's not a neutral act. so that being the case, should schools should this have gone further? should the guidance have said that there shouldn't be any social transitioning whatsoever, because that would just add to this idea of a contagion . contagion. >> so sex matters, the organisation that i work for has done a full analysis of the various laws and duties that bind on schools , because they go bind on schools, because they go a beyond the equality act . a lot beyond the equality act. they include safeguarding principles. for example, every education has education professional has a legal duty to safeguard children . and we think that if you take in round all the laws and in the round all the laws and regulations that bind on schools, can never pretend schools, they can never pretend that a child is a member of the opposite sex. that is not the interpret version of the expensive lawyers that the government turned to. as far as

we can tell from the leaks. but i those lawyers were, you i think those lawyers were, you know, looking just at know, myopically looking just at equality , and they don't equality law, and they don't understand anything about how you school. so what you run a school. so what they've with they've ended up with is a strange of muddle . there's strange sort of muddle. there's really in there, but really good stuff in there, but they've muddle they've got this weird muddle where understand that you where they understand that you must school rules , with no must have school rules, with no exception, in cyst that exception, that in cyst that only girls can use the girls spaces, and only boys can use the boys spaces, not one the boys spaces, and not one child whole britain child and the whole of britain in circumstances , should be in any circumstances, should be thought of as a member of the opposite sex. and that's legally sound. and they that in sound. and then they say that in some might some circumstances you might refer as a member refer to a child as a member of the opposite sex. well, you may have school rules have noticed that school rules are . so how can are written in words. so how can you a school rule that says you have a school rule that says to a boy, you're not allowed into the girls toilets, but by the a special sort the way, you're a special sort of that we call a girl. this of boy that we call a girl. this is just coherent, we is just not coherent, and we hope to tighten it up in the process of consultation. hope to tighten it up in the proless of consultation. hope to tighten it up in the pro! mean, onsultation. hope to tighten it up in the pro! mean, you've|tion. hope to tighten it up in the pro! mean, you've got. feel >> i mean, you've got to feel sorry for teachers in all of sorry for the teachers in all of this lot this this because a lot of this guidance to make guidance was surely to make lives easier for them. right >> for school leaders, it's >> and for school leaders, it's school leaders who carry the

legal responsibility here. it's been a gross dereliction of duty by the department for education not put this out a lot not to put this out a lot earlier. left around 30,000 earlier. it's left around 30,000 schools around britain trying to make in this complex make decisions in this complex area pressure from area under pressure from teachers, activists , some teachers, activists, some activist teachers as well , and activist teachers as well, and making those decisions in a space where they know they're quite get sued by quite likely to get sued by people sides, by parents people on both sides, by parents who to who want their children to transition. their boy transition. they want their boy to a girl, or vice to be treated as a girl, or vice versa parents saying versa, and other parents saying under circumstances do this. under no circumstances do this. i should say i really am impressed that kemi badenoch got it to this point. i understand that who has made it as that it's her who has made it as tough as and clear as it is. i think that in the end, we're going to have get the going to have to get to the point that we say, no boy can be a girl and you're going to have point that we say, no boy can be a girl ithatyou're going to have point that we say, no boy can be a girl that in|'re going to have point that we say, no boy can be a girl that in youroing to have point that we say, no boy can be a girl that in your language.ye point that we say, no boy can be a girl that in your language. if to say that in your language. if people want to change their names, but you people want to change their namepretend but you people want to change their namepretend boys but you people want to change their namepretend boys orrt you people want to change their namepretend boys or girls| people want to change their namepretend boys or girls or can't pretend boys or girls or girls or boys and keep all children the children safe. and that is the primary schools. primary duty of schools. >> so finally on that, how will that achieved? already that be achieved? i've already said lawyers are said that some lawyers are saying that this is unlawful guidance. some are suggesting saying that this is unlawful guidby:e. some are suggesting

saying that this is unlawful guid by the ome are suggesting saying that this is unlawful guid by the end are suggesting saying that this is unlawful guid by the end arythe ggesting that by the end of the consultation period, will consultation period, it will change watered change and it will be watered down. stonewall has come out and then they're not happy at all with guidance. so there's with this guidance. so there's a lot of powerful lobbying groups and groups are and activist groups who are determined and activist groups who are detepulled apart and that it and pulled apart and that it won't be applied. so how do you deal with that? how do we ensure that actually it does go through and as it needs and is as rigorous as it needs to be? >> i mean, the stuff about spaces and sports having to be single sex is so clearly worked, andifs single sex is so clearly worked, and it's so obviously based on statutory responsibilities on schools that it's amazing to me that that was ever ignored in the first place. >> i think all these teachers who mouthing under who were mouthing off under anonymous twitter anonymous accounts on twitter saying that they're not going to follow guidance , like once follow this guidance, like once they into their mind that they get into their mind that actually going to actually that's going to have them before the professional them up before the professional bodies on fitness to practice and that they're going to lose their think that's their jobs. i think that that's just, know, that's saturday just, you know, that's saturday night bravado, so night bravado, isn't it? so i think it's that i think it's the fact that it gives its legal workings and, you know, the trans activist groups, they've

really very well the really worked very well in the shadows . they've to shadows. they've managed to present all these misrepresentations when nobody was and now that it's was looking. and now that it's out cold of day and out in the cold light of day and it's i think all it's written down, i think all these people are really going to have second and third thoughts. and finally, i would say and also, finally, i would say that leaders are often that school leaders are often much than the much less activist than the activist teachers. they're quite sensible people generally, activist teachers. they're quite sensible theyyle generally, activist teachers. they're quite sensible they tend enerally, activist teachers. they're quite sensible they tend to rally, activist teachers. they're quite sensible they tend to rallthe because they tend to be the people who get the people who have to get the insurance policy talk insurance policy and who talk to the about what the the legal counsel about what the school doing. i think that school is doing. i think that this actually will stick pretty well. well helen, thanks so much for taking us through that. >> it's very complicated. i really appreciate it. have a really appreciate it. have a really by the really great christmas, by the way andrew? way, are you too, andrew? >> having me on. >> thanks for having me on. i think it is really important that this guidance has now come out and it is long overdue, isn't it, cressida? >> because i've spoken to teachers who are so confused and they've for years they've been confused for years as luckily, i as this stuff. luckily, when i was teacher, this was was a teacher, none of this was there. it has happened there. you know, it has happened very there. you know, it has happened venlt be horrendous for >> it must be horrendous for teachers to walk this teachers trying to walk this tightrope of upsetting people. >> yeah, exactly what i really like about this is that the

government years government spent six years writing guidance , and their writing this guidance, and their conclusion should conclusion was he should teachers kids their teachers should call kids their names. teachers should call kids their naryeah. >> yeah. >> em e is effectively it. >> six years however much money. but an issue but jonathan there is an issue here actually like if a pupil here is actually like if a pupil is threatening to cause harm to themselves use the themselves if you don't use the pronouns want use , pronouns that they want to use, if being compelled to if you end up being compelled to do this, you know, this becomes a safeguarding issue for the child. >> of course, it's a safeguarding issue. but, you know, to face know, teachers do have to face this on daily basis. >> they've not gone far enough in that. yes the conclusion is you call by you should call children by their names, but if actually you make by their make it, call them by their surnames, schools . surnames, like old schools. that's a pronoun. that's a really need a pronoun. you need a preferred name. you don't need a preferred name. jenkins you've got it sorted. >> is actually brilliant >> that is actually a brilliant idea. used idea. although they never used to girls, did they? idea. although they never used to they girls, did they? idea. although they never used to they did girls, did they? idea. although they never used to they did at girls, did they? idea. although they never used to they did at mine. did they? idea. although they never used to they did at mine. oh they? idea. although they never used to they did at mine. oh didy? they? >> we had this one math teacher, mr really? used mr hey, really? yeah. he used to make alphabetical make us sit in alphabetical order, and had to sit next to order, and i had to sit next to my friend russ he'd my friend russ white, and he'd say, white, say, miss whetton, mr white, we're smile . say, miss whetton, mr white, we'we're smile . say, miss whetton, mr white, we'we're not smile . say, miss whetton, mr white, we'we're not here ;mile . say, miss whetton, mr white, we'we're not here to le . say, miss whetton, mr white, we'we're not here to smile. >> we're not here to smile. >> we're not here to smile. >> that's his catchphrase . yeah. >> that's his catchphrase. yeah. >> that's his catchphrase. yeah. >> what a miserable man. >> what a miserable man. >> that's very funny. well

anyway, thank you, whetton. i really appreciate that . okay, really appreciate that. okay, so, still to come on the so, anyway, still to come on the saturday night showdown, i will ask how they would ask my panel how they would spend christmas spend their perfect christmas and what they're actually doing. see you moment

welcome back to the saturday night showdown. we're almost done for the evening, but there's plenty of time left to ask my wonderful panel what makes christmas? in makes the perfect christmas? in their difficult makes the perfect christmas? in theirisn't difficult makes the perfect christmas? in theirisn't because fficult makes the perfect christmas? in theirisn't because fficlall one, isn't it? because we all have needs and have different needs and objectives at this time of year. >> keep classic. >> i say keep it classic. really? what's that? try and freestyle? get close to freestyle? well, get as close to a john lewis advert as you can, although probably haven't although you probably haven't got that many beautiful friends. but i don't got that many beautiful friends. but i i don't got that many beautiful friends. but i certainly i don't know, i certainly have. >> go for that. >> well, yeah, go for that. and relatives because they share my dna. will be doing dna. yes what will you be doing for cressida dna. yes what will you be doing for i'll cressida dna. yes what will you be doing for i'll withcressida dna. yes what will you be doing for i'll with family.| dna. yes what will you be doing for i'll with family. i'll be >> i'll be with family. i'll be in opening in bristol. okay. opening presents and eating and doing what? you know, classic . what? you know, the classic. >> the classic of thing. >> the classic sort of thing. you any strange you don't have any strange tradition family?

tradition in your family? >> for walk. >> no. we go for a walk. >> no. we go for a walk. >> that's quite nice >> oh, that's quite nice and normal, yeah, normal, isn't it? yeah, yeah, that's quite good. but christmas is about kids, it? is all about the kids, isn't it? do you have any regrets around kids? >> around ? um. >> around? um. >> around? um. >> so that's even better. >> around? um. >> so tha have en better. >> around? um. >> so tha have to better. >> around? um. >> so tha have to use er. >> around? um. >> so tha have to use alcohol >> so we have to use alcohol as a substitute. >> wrong with that. >> oh, nothing wrong with that. what's your tipple? >> what's available ? uh, >> uh, what's available? uh, port. um, probably yeah. port. um, port. probably yeah. i mean, it's christmas day, isn't it? >> well, i think you can't beat a creme de month a good creme de month at christmas . a good creme de month at christmas. no, no. is that vulgar ? vulgar? >> well, once upon a time, i was given milkshake of ice given a milkshake made of ice cream and creme de month . um, cream and creme de month. um, same friend, actually. russ white, funnily enough, that sounds yes, was . sounds grotesque. yes, it was. >> yeah. okay, we'll say no more sounds grotesque. yes, it was. >>that.|. okay, we'll say no more of that. >> we weren't there to smile. wetton so no , no, your wetton so no, no, no, your friend been radicalised. friend has been radicalised. >> so steve, what friend has been radicalised. >> you so steve, what friend has been radicalised. >> you going so steve, what friend has been radicalised. >> you going to so steve, what friend has been radicalised. >> you going to do steve, what friend has been radicalised. >> you going to do foreve, what christmas? >> i think you're totally wrong about this. it's not about tradition. the tradition. traditions are the problem with christmas. really? why? where the stress problem with christmas. really? why? from. where the stress problem with christmas. really? why? from. and'e the stress problem with christmas. really? why? from. and then stress problem with christmas. really? why? from. and then that's; comes from. and then that's where are. was i where the problems are. i was i was the other day and where the problems are. i was i viwas the other day and where the problems are. i was i viwas behind. the other day and where the problems are. i was i viwas behind. ihe other day and where the problems are. i was i viwas behind. i hadther day and where the problems are. i was i viwas behind. i hadthelistenand where the problems are. i was i viwas behind. i hadthelisten to! i was behind. i had to listen to the conversation the person had when they being served. the conversation the person had wherishey being served. the conversation the person had wherishey self—scan served. the conversation the person had wherishey self—scan se better. this is why self—scan is better. move on. yes, but she was she move it on. yes, but she was she was the cashier and

was talking to the cashier and she i've to and get she said, i've got to go and get twiglets because my twiglets after this because my daughter said, it's not christmas without twiglets. it is . but you've christmas without twiglets. it is. but you've given is. but now you've given yourself pressure to find twiglets don't them. twiglets if you don't find them. that's religion started. that's how religion started. exactly. yes, that's right. you get think, oh, i've get people who think, oh, i've got get the sprouts right, or got to get the sprouts right, or i'll christmas. no, i'll have ruined christmas. no, you crying i'll have ruined christmas. no, you sprouts crying i'll have ruined christmas. no, you sprouts in crying i'll have ruined christmas. no, you sprouts in the crying i'll have ruined christmas. no, you sprouts in the kitchen about sprouts in the kitchen again. i'm going into my again. maybe i'm going into my no. i backstory about that . no. i like backstory about that. >> like framework. then i >> i like the framework. then i know to yeah that's right. >> if you fail at that, all >> if you fail at that, then all of it's a big deal. do of a sudden it's a big deal. do you like the non—attachment idea? like to not idea? you like to not be attached and just go with the flow. attached and just go with the fl0\i totally with the >> i totally agree with the marks spencer advert this marks and spencer advert this yeah marks and spencer advert this year. there's year. that's about if there's a tradition don't they tradition you don't like. they they christmas they destroy all the christmas cards and the cakes and the cards and the cakes and the cards . cards. >> it's outrageous. oh my goodness, brave thing to goodness, it's a brave thing to do you're shop makes do when you're a shop that makes a big chunk of its money from selling stuff and they selling christmas stuff and they went, if you don't like it, don't it's for the boycott don't think it's for the boycott that's happening in oxford circusare you, jonathan? what do what are you, jonathan? what do you christmas? you you do for christmas? do you celebrate you do for christmas? do you celeldo,e like day. >> i do, i do like any day. i get up around sort of ten ish, have a two hour thai massage, generally. i generally. that's just how i like my day. yeah, like to start my day. yeah, yeah. it if possible.

yeah. and end it if possible. if budget yeah, budget permits. but yeah, i'm going my, go to my going to go to my, um, go to my family's well, actually, family's place. well, actually, my brother law's place and my brother in law's place and we're my parents and we're all going. my parents and everything, we're going everything, and we're going to be there. my little nephew's there. lots of there. he's three and lots of presents. oh, presents. he's so sweet. oh, that nice. that would be nice. >> then have a >> okay, so then you'll have a nice christmas? >> okay, so then you'll have a nic> okay, so then you'll have a nic> okay, so then you'll have a nic> okay, so then you'll have a nic> okay, so then you'll have a nic> it'd be very, very careful with rouse. people >> it'd be very, very careful with rouse. really people >> it'd be very, very careful with rouse. really peofall out. >> are you good? i can imagine you're good. you're pretty good. >> at it. but >> i'm pretty good at it. but i've known to flip i've been known to flip the board. in board. oh, okay. yeah. in certain circumstances, particularly had particularly when i've had a few months. right. months. oh. all right. so i mean, not ideal all. no. mean, no, not ideal at all. no. okay well, but what we're all talking the one thing talking about our the one thing we've conspicuously not mentioned of jesus mentioned is the birth of jesus christ. mentioned is the birth of jesus chrit's mentioned is the birth of jesus chr it's already happened. mentioned is the birth of jesus chrit's already happened. we >> it's already happened. we can't do that this time. can't do that again this time. oh,okay, i forgot forgot >> okay, i forgot i forgot that's been done. you know. that's been done. but you know. but argument, isn't but there is an argument, isn't there, true meaning of there, that the true meaning of christmas uh, christmas has been, uh, basically overshadowed with commercialism basically overshadowed with comm

other day because we did a story on it. there no connection on it. there is no connection between and between black friday and anything commercial. anything other than commercial. all that right? all stuff. is that right? christmas? correct. all stuff. is that right? chrah, as? correct. all stuff. is that right? chrah, as? easter correct. all stuff. is that right? chrah, as? easter suddenly >> ah, but easter suddenly became about that thing , became about that rabbit thing, and there's no way that he was there on calvary. no. well, i've worked out, though, is that if we celebrated the birth of jesus near birth , which was near the actual birth, which was in shops wouldn't near the actual birth, which was in busy shops wouldn't near the actual birth, which was in busy because tops wouldn't near the actual birth, which was in busy because christmasin't near the actual birth, which was in busy because christmas has be busy because christmas has already so solved it. yeah, already gone so solved it. yeah, well, steve solves everything. that's why we have him here. that's why we have him here. that for the saturday that is it for the saturday night showdown. but, uh, keep here, please . because ben leo is here, please. because ben leo is next with tonight live. he's got plenty of festive fun lined up. thanks so much for watching. and a christmas all a very merry christmas to all our news viewers. our wonderful gb news viewers. god bless us every one are. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news . weather on gb news. >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather. i'm ellie glaisyer looking towards

christmas and it's looking like it's staying cloudy and damp for most of us with temperatures generally above average for the time year as low pressure time of year as low pressure continues sit out towards the continues to sit out towards the northwest, slowly bringing frontal across uk frontal systems across the uk through the rest of the weekend and in towards the christmas period, that's been period, heavy rain that's been across parts of western scotland gradually starts to ease, but turns across western turns heavier across western parts of wales. we could see up to 18mm here and generally quite a picture for much of a cloudy picture for much of england and wales. some clearer spells but spells further north, but blustery in from blustery showers pushing in from the west and feeling a little bit chillier however, bit chillier here. however, it will much milder further will be much milder further south, with perhaps 11 or 12 degrees, so a very mild, cloudy and start for much of and damp start for much of england and wales on christmas eve . rain continues to spread eve. rain continues to spread its eastwards as we head its way eastwards as we head into afternoon . some into towards the afternoon. some sunshine across parts of northern ireland, northern england scotland, but plenty england and scotland, but plenty of around and of blustery showers around and some very strong winds across nonh some very strong winds across north northeast england, perhaps up to 70 miles an hour. temperatures still above average across board, perhaps 13 or

across the board, perhaps 13 or 14 degrees to start on christmas day. another wet and cloudy picture for much of england and wales. heavy rain spreads in from the west slowly clearing its way eastwards as we go through the day. further north, there some brighter there will be some brighter spells, another of rain spells, but another band of rain pushes northwards into pushes its way northwards into parts , perhaps parts of scotland, perhaps bringing to some high bringing some snow to some high ground. drier and ground. looking drier and brighter on boxing day, but further and windy weather on further wet and windy weather on the way . the way. >> a brighter outlook with box solar, sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> good evening, i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom . i'm wenzler in the gb newsroom. i'm hundreds of pro—palestine protesters have been rallying in central london to demonstrate . central london to demonstrate. the tories fire. no ceasefire now the demonstrators were urging christmas shoppers to

boycott what they say are pro—israel brands. traffic on oxford street was brought to a standstill as crowds chanted don't fund genocide . security don't fund genocide. security guards blocked the entrance to fashion shop zara, while dozens of officers followed the march. police say there were no arrests . meanwhile today's been dubbed super saturday, tipped to be the busiest in—store shopping day of the year. last year , shoppers the year. last year, shoppers were said to have spent over £1.5 million buying last minute christmas gifts. the great christmas gifts. the great christmas getaway is well and truly underway, the aa says. it's the busiest day of the pre—christmas period , with an pre—christmas period, with an expected 16.5 million extra cars on the road today. expected 16.5 million extra cars on the road today . travellers on the road today. travellers have been facing delays by road and rail, with train passengers deaung and rail, with train passengers dealing with cancellations, and there's more disruption expected tomorrow as london's king's cross and paddington stations closed for engineering works . closed for engineering works. travel expert simon calder says people really need to plan their journeys carefully . journeys carefully. >> so let's start at london paddington because we know that

that all the trains are going to stop as from late tonight. there won't be any until the 28th of december. we are seeing train cancellations to bristol to cardiff and coming back in the opposite direction due to shortage of train crew. the nonh shortage of train crew. the north of england is going to be even worse . northern trains has even worse. northern trains has said. do not travel on some of our key routes. we won't have any trains, we can't get the staff to run them . staff to run them. >> police in florida say multiple people have been injured after a shooting at paddock mall in ocala. it is understood the suspect is believed to have fled a curler. police say the mall is being evacuated and are asking people to avoid the area. as the investigation continues , police investigation continues, police have arrested a man on suspicion of theft after the removal of a banksy in south east london. the piece, a stop sign covered with three aircrafts that look like military drones, was discovered at an intersection in peckham yesterday. less than an hour after the artist confirmed the