gb news. >> welcome tonight with me, andrew doyle. it's the era of thought crime . police scotland thought crime. police scotland recorded 3800 non—crime hate incidents in one year. is it time to consign orwell's dystopia to the world of fiction as it's revealed a record 2.6 million people are off work because of long terme sickness? is it offensive for bosses to offer running club memberships to their staff? our trans athletes stealing medals from female competitors , biological female competitors, biological men competing in women's sport is an issue that just won't go away. when will the madness end ? away. when will the madness end? and ricky gervais has fallen victim to a woke pile on over the festive season, including from his fellow comics. so what does this say about the state of comedy and society today? and as it's announced , the un have sent it's announced, the un have sent 153 migrants to rwanda despite thwarting britain's own deal and telling us rwanda isn't safe . is telling us rwanda isn't safe. is this hypocrisy of the highest level? all this and more after

the news headlines with severe wenzler . wenzler. >> good evening . wenzler. >> good evening. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb news room. new year's plans have been ruined for thousands of people after eurostar cancelled all trains to and from london, causing travel chaos. the company apologised after a tunnel was flooded, apparently caused by a burst pipe apparently caused by a burst pipe connected to the fire safety system . up to 35,000 safety system. up to 35,000 passengers have been affected, with many left stranded at london's saint pancras station. eurostar says services will be up and running tomorrow after flooding in the tunnel was brought under control, although speed restrictions may lead to some delays . and forecasters are some delays. and forecasters are warning people to take care ahead of new year celebrations as heavy rain and strong winds are expected in many parts of the country, with parts of scotland likely see scotland likely to see significant levels of snow. the met office says yellow alerts

are in place until 3 am. tomorrow. a third man has died following a house fire in south london. emergency services were called to an address on sandy dead road in croydon just before 11:00 last night. two men were pronounced dead at the scene. the met police say a third man, believed to be in his 30s, died later in hospital and another man is in a life threatening condition in hospital, while a fifth person has been discharged and the cause of the fire is still being investigated . still being investigated. ukraine has struck a series of targets in russia , killing 14 targets in russia, killing 14 people and injuring more than 100 others. it comes after russia carried out its most devastating air attack since the invasion began . ukraine says the invasion began. ukraine says the brutality of the strikes, which killed 31 people, shows there can be no talk of a truce with moscow. russia requested a meeting of the united nations security council today, despite most members condemning russia's actions at an emergency gathering last night. the uk's representative, barbara woodward , says russia is deliberately

targeted civilians. these these missiles were aimed at population centres across ukraine, at kyiv, lviv to dnipro, odesa , kharkiv, dnipro, odesa, kharkiv, kilmezsky and many more cities . kilmezsky and many more cities. >> they struck homes, apartment buildings , shopping centres and buildings, shopping centres and metros . a maternity hospital and metros. a maternity hospital and a regional oncology centre have been damaged . a regional oncology centre have been damaged. in a regional oncology centre have been damaged . in short, civil been damaged. in short, civil infrastructure . infrastructure. >> and the british actor tom wilkinson has died . born into a wilkinson has died. born into a farming family in yorkshire, he won fans for his role in the classic comedy the full monty. he was nominated for an academy award twice, and he took home a golden globe in 2009 for his portrayal of benjamin franklin in hbo's acclaimed miniseries john adams. singer will young has paid tribute to him as

british acting royalty tom wilkinson was 75. this is gb news across the uk . on tv, in news across the uk. on tv, in your car, on your digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play. gb news. >> welcome to gb news. tonight with me, andrew doyle. coming up on tonight's show. it's the era of thought crime police scotland recorded 3800 non crime hate incidents in one year. so is it time to make orwell fiction again and it's revealed a record 2.6 million people are off work because of long terme sickness. is it offensive for bosses to offer running club memberships to their staff? and our trans athlete stealing medals from female competitors? that's what former olympic swimmer sharron davies thinks. she'll join me live to call for an end to the madness, including in grassroots sport . ricky gervais has fallen sport. ricky gervais has fallen victim to a woke pile on over

the festive season , including the festive season, including from his fellow comics. so what does this say about the state of comedy and society today? and it's announced that the un has sent 153 migrants to rwanda , sent 153 migrants to rwanda, despite britain's own despite thwarting britain's own deal and telling us that rwanda isn't safe. so is this hypocrisy of the highest level we've got tomorrow's papers at 1030 sharp with full reaction from my brilliant political brilliant panel. political commentator and writer benedict spence , author and journalist spence, author and journalist emma , and former labour emma wolfe, and former labour adviser matthew lhasa. and they'll be telling us their heroes villains from 2023, heroes and villains from 2023, plus , the most important part of plus, the most important part of the show, your views gbviews@gbnews.com do email in and let me know your thoughts . and let me know your thoughts. let's get started with this . you let's get started with this. you might recall a couple of weeks ago, the mp for redditch and deputy chair of the conservative party, rachel mclean, was in the news because she had reposted a tweet which referred to green party candidate melissa poulton

as, quote, a man who wears a wig and calls himself a proud lesbian . and this happened to be lesbian. and this happened to be a statement of fact. but this didn't stop the west mercia police recording this as a non—crime hate incident. many of you might not be aware of what a non—crime hate incident actually is. you might be thinking to yourself, is really the yourself, is it really the police's to be investigating police's job to be investigating non—crime? that would be like your doctor phoning you up and saying, i hear you're really well at the moment. and of course have a point. course you would have a point. so has this come from? so where has all this come from? well, can tell you that it well, i can tell you that it hasn't come from government. hasn't come from the government. in of police in 2014, the college of police sing quango responsible for sing the quango responsible for training police forces in the uk , introduced non—crime hate incidents. they didn't have a mandate for it, they just did. it the idea would be that even if someone hadn't committed a crime, of hate needed to crime, signs of hate needed to be monitored . in case these be monitored. in case these sentiments developed into criminal activity in the future , criminal activity in the future, you might follow the lead of science fiction writer philip k dick, called this kind of science fiction writer philip k

dick, pre—crime this kind of science fiction writer philip k dick, pre—crime .:his kind of science fiction writer philip k dick, pre—crime . its kind of science fiction writer philip k dick, pre—crime . it soundsf science fiction writer philip k dick, pre—crime . it sounds a bit thing pre—crime. it sounds a bit dystopian, doesn't it ? what dystopian, doesn't it? what business does the police have in auditing our private thoughts and emotions? well, in a free society, none whatsoever . how it society, none whatsoever. how it works is this if someone is insulted or feels offended and perceives that the slight is motivated by hate , they can motivated by hate, they can contact the police and the person in question will have a non—crime hate incident recorded by their name . they usually by their name. they usually won't be told about this , and won't be told about this, and there is no evidential threshold required . in other words, the required. in other words, the accuser doesn't have to prove hateful . it'sjust hateful intent. it's just assumed hate is defined as being offensive against one of the five protected characteristics . five protected characteristics. you can find them listed on the websites of the crown prosecution service and the college of policing. these are race, religion, sexual orientation, trans gender identity and disability . and identity and disability. and you'll note that these are different to the list of protected characteristics in the equality act, which also includes sex but features gender reassignment rather than transgender identity . the law transgender identity. the law enforcement agencies are using a

revised list of their own making, and this explains why threats against women for standing up for single—sex spaces tend to be ignored by the police, but people have been arrested for misgender ing, in other words, for exercising their free speech. but you might say, look, no one has been arrested for non—crime hate incidents . and yet there are incidents. and yet there are other implications to consider. there are certain jobs teaching, for instance, in which a dbs or disclosure and barring service check is required . and if you check is required. and if you have a non—crime hate incident against your name, it will show up and you probably won't get that job. and even if that weren't the what about the weren't the case, what about the principles of a liberal democracy? can't only democracy? i can't be the only one it's deeply democracy? i can't be the only one and it's deeply democracy? i can't be the only one and authorities)ly sinister, and authorities britain to have the police recording lists of citizens who have committed wrongthink. it sounds like the stuff of fiction, but it is very much real. in the five years after the college of policing introduced the policy, around 120,000 non—crime hate incidents were recorded in england and wales. estimates now suggest that they'll be knocking on for

a quarter of a million by this point, and rachel mclean isn't even the first mp to have experienced this. in 2017, the then home secretary, amber rudd, had non crime hate incident had a non crime hate incident recorded against her because she referred to migrant workers in a speech at the tory party conference and someone took offence and contacted the police. mostly it's just police. but mostly it's just regular people clobbered regular people getting clobbered by sinister practice and by this sinister practice and man in bedfordshire was slapped with a non—crime hate incident for whistling the theme tune from builder at his from bob the builder at his neighbour, which for some reason was as racist. other was interpreted as racist. other actions that have been recorded as hate incidents by police include a disputed line call in a match, a dog a tennis match, a dog defaecating on someone's lawn , defaecating on someone's lawn, and a man saying that he was campaigning brexit and the campaigning for brexit and the barrister sarah phillimore, who has appeared on my show many times, was recorded as having committed non—crime hate committed a non—crime hate incident posted incident when she posted a satirical tweet which featured a picture of her puppy, along with the caption my dog will call me a nazi for cheese. the point is

that the police have no right to be doing this, and according to the law society gazette, it's not lawful and this has not even lawful and this has been tested in court. in not even lawful and this has been tested in court . in 2019, been tested in court. in 2019, former constable harry miller was contacted by humberside police following a complaint by an offended party about a poem that he had shared on social media, which was deemed to be transphobic. harry being an ex—cop, knew something was amiss . he asked why the unnamed complainant being described was being described as a victim if no crime had actually been committed, and more to the point, he said, why was he being investigated at all? to which came the ominous response we need to check your thinking, thought crime . that's a concept thought crime. that's a concept that readers of george orwell will be familiar with. however, harry miller took the police to the high court with the help of the high court with the help of the free speech union, and in december 2021, the court of appeal ruled quote, the appeal ruled that, quote, the recording of non—crime hate incidents plainly an incidents is plainly an interference with freedom of expression. but by that point the home secretary of the time,

priti patel, had already instructed the police to stop recording , instructed the police to stop recording, adding non—crime hate incidents over hurt feelings . incidents over hurt feelings. that was in april 2021 and then in march of this year, home secretary suella braverman published new guidelines reminding police that this is the case. but the college of policing have merely fudged the language of their guidance and just carried on as before . so just carried on as before. so what does that tell us? well, it would seem that the college of policing has been ideologically captured. now an activist captured. it is now an activist body, and would explain why body, and this would explain why so many officers to so many police officers seem to think their to monitor think it's their job to monitor the citizens , as the speech of uk citizens, as the speech of uk citizens, as the policing has been the college of policing has been told to stop it by successive home secretaries. they've been told it is unethical and unlawful by the high courts , and unlawful by the high courts, and still they persist . and at some still they persist. and at some point it's got to stop. surely it's beyond the point now when the college of policing ought to be abolished and replaced with a service that observes the law rather than the demands of

activists . i would have thought activists. i would have thought that by now, non—crime hate incidents would be a thing of the past. but the activists within of policing within the college of policing are their own within the college of policing are and their own within the college of policing are and they're their own within the college of policing are and they're not heir own within the college of policing are and they're not going vn way, and they're not going to give up without a fight . give this up without a fight. right before we go to my panel, i want to give a bit of a right of reply to the college of policing. so this is a statement they put in june of this they put out in june of this yeah they put out in june of this year. this was chief year. this was the chief constable, new constable, andy marsh said a new code are now in code and guidance are now in place when place for officers when responding non—crime hate responding to non—crime hate incidents. these incidents, incidents. these incidents, incidents should not be recorded where they trivial , where they are trivial, irrational or there is no basis to conclude that an incident was motivated by hostility and yet panel motivated by hostility and yet panel. and yet they did in fact record a non—crime hate incident against rachel mclean when there was no evidence of hostility. and you can see from their wording there they're still going to do they're just going to do it. they're just going to do it. they're just going modify the going to change modify the language. am i the only language. emma, am i the only one who's disturbed by this? >> didn't realise this >> no, and i didn't realise this had introduced by the had been introduced by the

college policing any college of policing without any mandate. deeply, as mandate. i think it's deeply, as you sinister, very you say, deeply sinister, very alarming. is truly the alarming. this is truly the stuff of orwellian kind of nightmares, if not, you know, kind dystopia . um, the fact kind of dystopia. um, the fact that people are, well , that the that people are, well, that the accusers are unnamed and that you don't even know this stuff has been recorded against you. the fact that you're i mean, you're citing people whistling bob the builder. you're citing people whistling bob the builder . yeah, like that bob the builder. yeah, like that is absolutely ludicrous . is absolutely ludicrous. >> you know, we could have non—crime hate incidents against us right now. you have to check. you check the you have to check in with the police. i assume police. i haven't, i assume i have few against my name. exactly. >> you don't actually know? yeah we to be clear about this we have to be clear about this ehhen we have to be clear about this either. mean, either. something i mean, i don't with hate don't agree with all this hate crime anyway either crime stuff. anyway but either it's it's not this it's a crime or it's not this weird of a non—crime weird category of a non—crime hate i that's hate incident. i think that's where and very, very where it's weird and very, very alarming . and as you say, why alarming. and as you say, why are the police wasting time when we the police are so we know the police are so overstretched, underfunded, all this claim ? yes. this stuff that they claim? yes. why investigating this? why are they investigating this? why are they investigating this? why following up? why are they following this up? okay crime to okay when there's real crime to be, if i can ask. >> yeah. if i can have matthew

or ben. does anyone have an opposing view? does anyone here think actually police think that actually the police are within rights to are well within their rights to investigate no . non—crime? no. >> okay, sorry about that. there's a consensus. >> okay, sorry about that. there's a consensus . okay. there's a consensus. okay. there's a consensus. okay. there's a consensus. okay. there's a bit of i come from, you know , you know, from the you know, you know, from the from but from the left of politics. but i think is very worrying. um think it is very worrying. um because it seems because first of all, it seems to me it's a total cop out for the cops rather than investigating real hate crime rather than actually getting things know things right. uh, when, you know , as we've seen with so many cases where they haven't delivered the people within delivered for the people within the five protected characteristics, whichever way that, you know, you take whichever five characteristics you take. yeah. instead you take. yeah. um, and instead it's just this is just ludicrous . i mean, it's judge and jury for a copper at end of a for a copper at the end of a phone. for a copper at the end of a phone . um, who's enforcing phone. um, who's enforcing something that hasn't been decided by parliament? parliament be parliament needs to be sovereign, of sovereign, not the college of policing which a policing, which is which is a quango. it's training college. >> also so vague. have >> it's also so vague. we have a situation police forces situation where police forces are doing different are actually doing different things. doing it, some things. some are doing it, some are doing it, some are are not doing it, some are applying rules different are not doing it, some are applybecause'ules different are not doing it, some are applybecause there different are not doing it, some are applybecause there are fferent are not doing it, some are applybecause there are no ent are not doing it, some are applybecause there are no clear ways because there are no clear

rules about this. benedict i mean, to this point, mean, i come back to this point, why government why won't the government just step in and say this quango is no longer fit purpose? no longer fit for purpose? >> your is as good >> i mean, your guess is as good as mine. this has been theme as mine. this has been the theme of various of of various iterations of the conservatives since came in conservatives since they came in to is that they say, oh, to power is that they say, oh, this very good, and then this isn't very good, and then they don't anything it. they don't do anything about it. they will just they don't do anything about it. they if will just they don't do anything about it. they if you will just they don't do anything about it. they if you say will just they don't do anything about it. they if you say that will just they don't do anything about it. they if you say that it's just they don't do anything about it. they if you say that it's bad. they don't do anything about it. theywhichr say that it's bad. they don't do anything about it. theywhich isay that it's bad. they don't do anything about it. theywhich is aycompletely d. they don't do anything about it. theywhich is aycompletely the um, which is a completely the opposite to labour party, opposite to the labour party, which and says, this is which comes in and says, this is our ideology. and you're sure that make that we're going to make sure that we're going to make sure that through. and that it is forced through. and i think really you think that this really shows you the failure, the betrayal , the failure, the betrayal, frankly, of the conservative party towards its own voters, that they have allowed these things over things to fester for over a decade now . and the best that decade now. and the best that they is oh , it's they can do is go, oh, it's a bit it's not good. bit woke. it's not good. somebody do something somebody should do something about as they're staring about it. as they're staring down a general down the barrel of a general election, sat here election, we're all sat here going, did have going, well, you did have the power. the governor. power. you were the governor. thanks power. you were the governor. thacani power. you were the governor. thacan i come to you next? >> can i come to you next? because really because that's a really interesting it's because that's a really intejust ng it's because that's a really intejust that it's because that's a really intejust that particular it's because that's a really intejust that particular quango. not just that particular quango. the has the civil service also has exactly we've exactly the same problem. we've had recently had a whistleblower recently talking how whatever talking about how whatever immigration policy the government wants to do, the civil members will civil service staff members will

thwart that the home office thwart it, that the home office will serious about immigration. >> weren't behind any of >> they weren't behind any of the a joke, the plans, that it's all a joke, but what does but more seriously, what does this our heads? and it's this do to our heads? and it's not being not even about being conservative voters. it's about the population the the population in general. the rachel , the man a wig rachel mclean, the man in a wig comments . yes, i think it was comments. yes, i think it was really i know it was a couple of weeks ago. i think it's really, really worrying when people can see the evidence of their eyes and they're being told the opposite. it is orwellian because you're being told the opposite can see, opposite of what we can all see, which what 99% of people were which is what 99% of people were saying. man in a wig. which is what 99% of people were sayin look, man in a wig. which is what 99% of people were sayin look, i man in a wig. which is what 99% of people were sayin look, i supportn in a wig. which is what 99% of people were sayin look, i support the a wig. which is what 99% of people were sayin look, i support the right|. now, look, i support the right of every single person to love who they want to dress. how they want exactly as they want to live. exactly as they wish. i think we should do wish. and i think we should do that with love and acceptance. but when you are being told that a who dresses in a wig, a man who dresses in a wig, which absolutely a which is absolutely fine is a woman, we can all see woman, and we can all see that he's they are not a woman. he's that they are not a woman. what? what does that do to people? i think what it does , it people? i think what it does, it starts just to undermine the whole trust in whole fabric of trust in authorities , of society, of laws authorities, of society, of laws of all of this. it just makes

one thing, well, it's just ridiculous. >> yes, that's an interesting point. i want it to point. i want to connect it to being say the opposite point. i want to connect it to bewhat say the opposite point. i want to connect it to bewhat can|y the opposite point. i want to connect it to bewhat can see; opposite point. i want to connect it to bewhat can see. right?;ite of what we can see. right? because, you raised the because, matthew, you raised the spectre hate crime a spectre of hate crime as a concept. that concept. now, the problem that we as emma sort of we have here is, as emma sort of saying here, that actually we have here is, as emma sort of sayingl here, that actually we have here is, as emma sort of sayingl mean, that actually we have here is, as emma sort of sayingl mean, the it actually we have here is, as emma sort of sayingl mean, the idea:ually we have here is, as emma sort of sayingl mean, the idea:ua saying hate. i mean, the idea of saying thatis hate. i mean, the idea of saying that is a in a wig is being that is a man in a wig is being redefined hate . the idea redefined as hate. the idea of women want single—sex women saying, we want single—sex spaces redefined spaces is being redefined as hate. so is even the categorisation of hate crime fit fit for purpose ? if no one can fit for purpose? if no one can agree what hate actually means? >> interesting that >> well, it's interesting that in actual case in these cases, an actual case for hate which would for hate crime, which would actually a court actually go before a court rather copper at rather than before a copper at the, you know, sitting in at the end of a phone line, it would be tested. you we have we tested. so, you know, we have we have crime laws, as you tested. so, you know, we have we have we crime laws, as you tested. so, you know, we have we have we havee laws, as you tested. so, you know, we have we have we have and vs, as you tested. so, you know, we have we have we have and yetas you tested. so, you know, we have we have we have and yet none| tested. so, you know, we have we have we have and yet none of know, we have and yet none of these cases are taken under that because a law, as you because this isn't a law, as you said. a said. so clearly this isn't a law. is a mode of operation law. this is a mode of operation for the police . and what think for the police. and what i think is extraordinary is it's a complete money because complete waste of money because because can be seen here, because as can be seen here, every single police force either has elected mayor or has a directly elected mayor or a police and crime commissioner in and wales, and yet

in england and wales, and yet they don't seem to be seem to be stopping there. tories stopping them there. the tories did at the last police and did well at the last police and crime commissioner elections. did well at the last police and crime of�*nmissioner elections. did well at the last police and crime of�*nmissionetories.ions. did well at the last police and crime of�*nmissionetories. none did well at the last police and crithem �*nmissionetories. none did well at the last police and crithem �*nmissi0|be ories. none did well at the last police and crithem �*nmissi0|be stopping|e this. >> finally, benedict, i just want you about this want to ask you about this because we i mentioned the equality act, which has been sort rewritten college sort of rewritten by the college of to, redefine of policing to, to redefine so that word sex is out of that the word sex is out of their list of protected meristics, even though it is there in the equality act. and this feminists and women this is why feminists and women who are basically standing up for rights, never get for their rights, they never get any when any help from the police when they complain, they when they complain, they're just they're just sort of demonised as demonised and smeared as transphobic or hateful or anything so what can anything like that. so what can we about that? an activist we do about that? an activist presence within such an important body, because it means that the police surely are not serving impartially. you need to marginalise people, you need to sack them. >> to reform them. and >> you need to reform them. and the is that this the problem is that doing this sort branch reform sort of root and branch reform takes time. and that is, i'm afraid. back to the length afraid. i go back to the length of time the conservatives have beenin of time the conservatives have been in power. if you are going to sort of thing to take this sort of thing seriously, need to take it to take this sort of thing se terms, need to take it to take this sort of thing se terms, thisaed to take it to take this sort of thing se terms, this could take it to take this sort of thing se terms, this could take a in terms of this could take a decade to do, it will need decade to do, and it will need to done day and

to be done on day one. and actually, we not had actually, what we have not had is terme is any sort of long terme coherent policy from this government on almost anything, coherent policy from this governm

>> if you're listening to tv news, radio, welcome back to gbn tonight. >> if you need a reason to keep the weight off in the new year, here's a new one for you. job centres and bosses are referring people to running and therapy to keep them fit and healthy. in a bid to tackle long terme sickness. so this is a part of a new work well scheme by ministers that's launching next yeah ministers that's launching next year. people who seem at danger of falling out of the workforce will also be offered work. coaches physiotherapy and mental health support. so joining me now to debate this is a former fat families presenter, steve miller, and author and journalist rebecca reid welcome both to the show. steve, can i come to you first? do you think that this is the way to tackle the problem of people being out of work is to for employers to help and government to help them and the government to help them and the government to help just get healthier? help them to just get healthier? yeah

>> well, i think the actual title of this debate is absolutely bloody ridiculous. frankly i mean, we're talking about a running group, an employer offering , offering the employer offering, offering the word offering to a running group. anyone would think, you know, talking about being offensive. i mean, they're not offering naked leapfrog classes, for god's sake. you know, that may be offensive . they're may be offensive. they're offering something that's positive of something that's healthy, something that's good for your physical health as well as your mental health. so actually , i think it's a great actually, i think it's a great idea. i welcome it, rebecca, do you welcome it? >> do you think this is the way to go? >> i think it depends how you approach it. i think if you get back to work after christmas and karen you karen from hr sidles up to you and listen, and says, listen, we've had a chat and we think you've put on a pounds christmas. so a few pounds over christmas. so we're running we're sending you to the running club. obviously to club. that's obviously going to go . um, employers go down badly. um, employers facilitating people being able to take exercise during the working day. amazing. but realistically , the main thing realistically, the main thing that's getting people work that's getting people off work is that require

is things that require physiotherapy and mental health. and list for and the wait list for physiotherapy on nhs for and physiotherapy on the nhs for and therapy on the nhs is unbelie long like it's three years in some places. so yes, it's a lovely idea, but really having a little bit of a park run outside is not going to fix the massive work crisis that we have. >> yeah, i mean also, isn't >> yeah, but i mean also, isn't it case really this >> yeah, but i mean also, isn't it ofase really this >> yeah, but i mean also, isn't it ofase shouldy this >> yeah, but i mean also, isn't it ofase shouldy tithe kind of thing should be the responsibility each responsibility of each individual human being, rather than employer sort than having your employer sort of pressure on you on you of put pressure on you on you to, run or to take exercise to, to run or to take exercise or to eat differently. steve don't you think really we should just people live the lives just let people live the lives that they want and stop that they want to live and stop interfering ? interfering? >> oh, in many ways, we've become in this become lazy asses in this country. i'm told i can country. frankly i'm told i can say that because we're now at the however, the watershed. um, however, i think it's about balance. i think, yes, we've support think, yes, we've got to support people, i'm all for that. people, and i'm all for that. right? that's absolutely fine. but unfortunately , in the uk, but unfortunately, in the uk, unlike countries like japan, where the individual does take a lot of responsibility, we really have fallen back on that and we prefer often to stain a sofa

with our arse . and that's with our arse. and that's frankly how it's become what, and this measure by the way, actually is something that the japanese do. it's part of something that they do their obesity rate is around 6% in the uk . ours is around 23. that's uk. ours is around 23. that's because we've normalised obesity in the uk. and it's not about steve miller being cruel and fat shaming. it's about being supportive, but also about being direct with people and saying to them , hang on a minute, you've them, hang on a minute, you've got to own your body a bit more. >> but rebecca, it isn't really necessarily about exercise so much, is it? i mean, surely this really comes down to a matter of diet and the choices that we make of nutrition. so make in terms of nutrition. so so yeah, i mean any, any qualified nutritionist will tell you that you can't outrun a bad diet that you can you could diet and that you can you could go a run every day and that go for a run every day and that really make really wouldn't make a difference if you're eating particularly highly processed foods, of sort of very foods, a lot of sort of very seed foods, seed oil based foods, particularly bad , um, and particularly very bad, um, and convenience foods are

particularly bad for you. >> we don't teach how to >> we don't teach you how to cook. people cook. we don't give people necessarily time to be able cook. we don't give people ne cook rily time to be able cook. we don't give people necook nutritiousne to be able cook. we don't give people necook nutritious food. be able cook. we don't give people ne cook nutritious food. it'sable to cook nutritious food. it's a lifestyle issue. and there's a there are a lot reasons why there are a lot of reasons why a lot people this lot of people in this country are overweight, lot are very overweight, but a lot of it's a privilege of it is that it's a privilege to time be to to have the time to be able to cook healthy food and feed yourself that and if you yourself in that way. and if you are , tired, overworked, yourself in that way. and if you are are , tired, overworked, yourself in that way. and if you are are likelyed, overworked, yourself in that way. and if you are are likely to overworked, yourself in that way. and if you are are likely to reach'orked, yourself in that way. and if you are are likely to reach fored, you are likely to reach for very, very high energy food that you can shove in your mouth to give energy. give you a burst of energy. >> a really good >> i think that's a really good point, i to point, steve. i want to bring that to you because surely poorer families, going that to you because surely po gor families, going that to you because surely pogo formilies, going that to you because surely pogo for the es, going that to you because surely pogo for the convenientgoing that to you because surely pogo for the convenient quick. to go for the convenient quick. they've got, you know, they haven't much time. they're haven't got much time. they're working they working all the time. they haven't much some haven't got much money. some of the tend the the cheaper foods tend to be the worst so surely you're worst for you. so surely you're talking the obesity rate talking about the obesity rate increasing. but isn't that inevitable? people's inevitable? when people's choices are limited? >> no, no we're not. i'm not going to allow that to be an excuse. everyone to say excuse. everyone loves to say that, oh, we're all fat because healthy food is too expensive. the institute of economic affairs did a study on this some time ago, and they found out actually cheaper actually, it actually is cheaper to healthily . yes, of course to eat healthily. yes, of course

you look deeply in the you have to look deeply in the supermarkets to find the bargains. i get that , and i do bargains. i get that, and i do think that the supermarket could do more when it comes to promoting eating. affordability of healthy food. but what we what we're lacking in this country in this debate is going down that route, is aspiration , down that route, is aspiration, passion and inspiration to encourage people, no matter what their income in terms of the solution that they can do something about it, that they don't have to live a miserable life, and being paranoid because they're too fat. there is something they can do about it. and that's what i'm all about. >> go on. rebecca wants to be bigger. >> like if you said to any woman i and i. i'm better on i know and i. i'm better on women than i am with men with this any woman i know, if you said to her, would you like two extra lifespan to be extra years of lifespan or to be a size ten for the rest of your life? pick being a size life? she'd pick being a size ten. people be thin. ten. people want to be thin. it's desire. it it's not a lack of desire. if it were easy, everyone would do it, but it's a lack of education. personally, about £40

personally, i lost about £40 after i had my daughter and that was because i worked out that i needed to do intermittent fasting. i have pcos, i am insulin resistant, but that i was a year old woman was a 31 year old woman with two degrees to degrees and access to a nutritionist . but like it, it nutritionist. but like it, it took proper diagnosis to understand what was going on. most have access to most people don't have access to do it's not easy and do that. it's not easy and i think the idea that we can somehow make people feel sad and ashamed , so punish ashamed, so they punish themselves thin just themselves into being thin just doesn't that. >> it's it's not about >> no, it's not it's not about that at all. it's not about that at all. >> greatest and most she and >> the greatest and most she and steve i just ask very steve can i just ask you very specifically about that, steve, before just ask before you go on, can i just ask you think implying >> i think rebecca's implying that, that the shame that, you know, that the shame element perhaps not element here is perhaps not helpful. you do you take a different view or do you understand that shaming someone for shape is just for their body shape is just it's going make matters w0 i'se. woi'se. >> worse. >> shaming them. >> shaming them. >> not i'm not talking >> i'm not i'm not talking about shaming i'm talking about shaming what i'm talking about is giving people solutions and being direct with people about taking get those taking action to get those solutions , rather than what your solutions, rather than what your bodyis

solutions, rather than what your body is doing, solutions, rather than what your body is doing , which solutions, rather than what your body is doing, which is just talk all your all your other guest is talking about is the problems and telling everyone how is . by the way, how difficult it is. by the way, if poor, you're going to how difficult it is. by the way, if fat poor, you're going to how difficult it is. by the way, if fat forever. you're going to how difficult it is. by the way, if fat forever. ythink going to how difficult it is. by the way, if fat forever. ythink rebecca. terrible. >> i'm coming to rebecca now on that one chance to respond there. rebecca. >> yeah, it was all right, i just questioned i'm surprised to hear you saying that you don't believe shaming because hear you saying that you don't beli do shaming because hear you saying that you don't beli do historically|ing because hear you saying that you don't beli do historically haveecause hear you saying that you don't beli do historically have called you do historically have called people fatties people butterballs and fatties and lordosis which and lordosis and things which feels very much like fat shaming. and the best sort of research about, um, maintaining weight comes out of a weight loss comes out of a scandi university , which showed scandi university, which showed that the better your opinion of yourself is, the more likely you are to lose weight and keep it off. hating yourself and off. so hating yourself and particularly nasty nicknames seems to think so. >> wouldn't there be a way, steve, for to sort of steve, for us to sort of inculcate of inculcate the kind of encouragement inculcate the kind of encoura about1t inculcate the kind of encoura about without resorting talking about without resorting to smears or slurs ? to smears or slurs? >> no, it's called having a sense of humour. and it's also about encouraging people through humour . and if you look at the humour. and if you look at the science of humour, you will see that there is a great

correlation between humour and motivation. and that is why you will see a lot of the time why the results that i drive people to achieve are pretty phenomenal. so when people come on and say, oh, you're saying this or you're saying that, i'll come to you in a minute. rebecca, you need to. rebecca, you need to loosen up, darling. honestly. >> okay. rebecca rebecca, is this a case of just one second? steve is it just a case of, uh, as steve says, a sense of humour or as you and i know, uh , every or as you and i know, uh, every bully in the playground uses humour as a weapon. yeah >> i mean, i like a joke as much as the next person, but i don't think that the sort of low level , uh, accessible childhood insults are necessarily the height of wit . but we all have height of wit. but we all have different senses of humour. um, i don't think it's necessarily about loosening up. i think this is very real issue that the, is a very real issue that the, the burden on the state of people able to work people being able to work is massive. the burden of massive. uh, the burden of people being physically

incapacitated by their wages, massive . so don't it's massive. so i don't think it's necessarily about needing to lighten it's about lighten up. i think it's about not taunt people. and not wanting to taunt people. and i be i looked into some of i would be i looked into some of the people who were on steve's program over the last, uh, decade, and the vast, vast, vast majority of all gained back majority of them all gained back all plus some. all of the weight, plus some. and that is very continual and that is a very continual issue with weight loss, one that i'm very aware of as somebody who's weight . um, who's lost a lot of weight. um, so don't think that method so i don't think that the method of shouting insults at people is necessarily working, but let's hope the running clubs might. yeah maybe. >> okay. that's all we've >> okay. well, that's all we've got time for, i'm afraid. but steve and rebecca reid, steve miller and rebecca reid, thank ever much thank you both ever so much for joining and coming up joining me tonight and coming up with panel the of aviva with my panel. the ceo of aviva has been given a damehood . and, has been given a damehood. and, you know, the one i mean, the one that personally vets white male recruits. so is britain rewarding positive discrimination . plus should you discrimination. plus should you be sacked for what you get up to in your sex life ? if you do not in your sex life? if you do not want to miss that story back in

a

radio. welcome back to gbn

tonight with me, andrew doyle. >> you've been getting in touch with some emails, so let's see what you've to say about the what you've got to say about the topics discussing. so topics we've been discussing. so we've from chris. we've got this one from chris. hi, andrew. is it time we cancelled orwell for cancelled george orwell for writing for writing a handbook for authoritarians ? it's an authoritarians? it's an interesting point. and that book, know , published book, you know, was published in at time in the same at the same time in the same year the establishment of year as the establishment of nonh year as the establishment of north christopher north korea. uh, christopher hitchens used out hitchens often used to point out that maybe were using it that maybe they were using it as a but anyway, there's a handbook. but anyway, there's this diane. the police this one from diane. the police will someone for non—hate will arrest someone for non—hate crime, won't deal with crime, but won't deal with shoplifters, etc. shoplifters, burglaries, etc. they seem to have become lazy and want deal real and don't want to deal with real crime love the show andrew. thank you diane i think that's absolutely right. and in fact, i was in new york quite recently and i was told in one particular shop that, uh, they'd locked everything shop that, uh, they'd locked everytlike shampoo, uh, because items like shampoo, uh, because apparently the police will not arrest anyone they steal arrest anyone unless they steal more than worth. so, yeah more than $1,000 worth. so, yeah , this seems to be happening across the board . we've also got across the board. we've also got this uh, shaming

this on the, uh, the fat shaming issue the best issue from gareth. uh, the best way to get some people back to work is give a good kick work is to give them a good kick up i'm saying up the backside. i'm not saying that people, that applies to all people, but quite a few nonetheless. also healthy cheaper than healthy food is cheaper than junk food. maybe. gareth, i'm not sure , but it does feel not so sure, but it does feel like, uh, violence is never the solution. uh, just a tender encouragement what i'd say. encouragement is what i'd say. well, me panel well, still with me are my panel for i've political for tonight. i've got political commentator and writer benedict for tonight. i've got political commerauthornd writer benedict for tonight. i've got political commer author and'riter benedict for tonight. i've got political commer author and journalist dict spence, author and journalist emma and former labour emma wolf, and former labour advisor matthew laza , now the advisor matthew laza, now the aviva boss who told mps that all senior white male recruits had to be personally signed off by her, has been awarded a damehood in the new year's honours list. so this is amanda blanc, which is a kind of an ironic name, has been recognised for services to business, gender equality and net zero. but should this kind of divisive , discriminatory of divisive, discriminatory behaviour be awarded with such high prestige so what does the panel think? matthew, i'm going to come to you first. >> so look, i think it proves

that the honour system is pretty rotten and broken, that we're dishing out gongs for somebody just know, been just for having, you know, been the chief executive of aviva for a years. i mean, a couple of years. i mean, i think there was a sensible, um, policy was policy behind what she was trying to which is to check trying to do, which is to check that a full and diverse recruitment procedure has been gone through. isn't just, gone through. and it isn't just, you know, another white bloke who's been doing it, but it doesn't that it shouldn't who's been doing it, but it do> wouldn't the employer, the people responsible for the recruitment, already recruitment, have already just decided be decided it's going to be a meritocracy just to meritocracy? we're just going to appoint person because appoint the best person because by implication, amanda by implication, what amanda blanc she's blanc is saying is that she's got racists working got a load of racists working for her. >> yeah, i mean, i think it's absolutely and if absolutely cack handed. and if and she's good chief and if she's a good chief executive, she executive, as you say, she should be having, she should be employing who the employing people who do find the best without best person for the job without her having to double check and sign i would sign it off. i would have thought therefore. mean, thought so. therefore. i mean, i think the gong, think so in terms of the gong, i think so in terms of the gong, i think she doesn't think she doesn't. she doesn't really but mean, think she doesn't. she doesn't rejust but mean, think she doesn't. she doesn't rejust reminds but mean, think she doesn't. she doesn't rejust reminds me ut mean, think she doesn't. she doesn't rejust reminds me of mean, think she doesn't. she doesn't rejust reminds me of how an, think she doesn't. she doesn't rejust reminds me of how rotten it just reminds me of how rotten the thing is. okay. the whole thing is. okay. >> she deserve the whole thing is. okay. >> gong? she deserve the whole thing is. okay. >> gong? no she deserve the whole thing is. okay. >> gong? no no, she deserve the whole thing is. okay. >> gong? no no, ishe deserve the whole thing is. okay. >> gong? no no, i thinkzserve the whole thing is. okay. >> gong? no no, i think ierve the whole thing is. okay. >> gong? no no, i think i think the gong? no no, i think i think ultimately a darwinist.

>> when it comes to this. i don't think should don't think we should have anything drives. anything like diversity drives. i about i think it is all about meritocracy and companies that i think it is all about merityappointnd companies that i think it is all about merityappoint the ompanies that i think it is all about merity appoint the ompe people at i think it is all about me the ppoint the ompe people at i think it is all about methe best|t the ompepeople at i think it is all about methe best jobse ompepeople at i think it is all about me the best jobse om; not ople at i think it is all about methe best jobse omjnot do e at for the best jobs will not do as well they'll be well as others. they'll be outcompeted. and that, ultimately, get ultimately, is how you'll get diversity getting best diversity by getting the best people for best job. that people for the best job. that way. the fact way. i think it's the fact that she's services, way. i think it's the fact that shejust services, way. i think it's the fact that she just to services, way. i think it's the fact that shejust to business, services, way. i think it's the fact that shejust to business, salso as, not just to business, but also to also, net zero to diversity. and also, net zero is somebody working an is for somebody working in an in an company . or is for somebody working in an in an company. or do you an insurance company. or do you just of there thinking, just sort of sat there thinking, why on earth are we handing out gongs that? you know, we all gongs for that? you know, we all know that it's a it's a bit of a scam the honour system. know that it's a it's a bit of a scarsince the honour system. know that it's a it's a bit of a scarsince when?a honour system. know that it's a it's a bit of a scarsince when? you nour system. know that it's a it's a bit of a scarsince when? you nour sthe m. but since when? you know the order of net zero. what on earth is yeah, flies. is this about? yeah, it flies. it reality it flies in the face of reality and it . i find it flies in the face of reality and it. i find it very frustrating because i know we all have a bit of a joke about it, zero a sort of it, but net zero is a sort of a strange fantasy twilight zone where even if we to go where even if we decide to go full on towards trying to mitigate human activity and impact on climate change, there is no world in which you can actually zero carbon actually have zero carbon emissions. fantasy . why emissions. it is a fantasy. why on we trying to praise on earth are we trying to praise this raise this and raise this? >> doublethink. it's >> it's doublethink. it's doublespeak. it's thought police zero concept.

doublespeak. it's thought police zero conc do . doublespeak. it's thought police zero conc do you doublespeak. it's thought police zero concdo you think about this? >> what do you think about this? because irrespective because even irrespective of where stand the net zero where you stand on the net zero issue, it feels like these awards these honours are awards are or these honours are effectively i mean, effectively politicised. i mean, we've deeply, you know, we've seen deeply, you know, someone who gave £50,000 to liz truss's suddenly gets period. >> yeah, well, they should have been at this point. >> the liz truss honours list is a badge of is an absolute badge of it ? of shame, isn't it? >> um, but specifically on the case of this aviva. >> yeah, the honours system as, as others have so as the others have said, is so discredited and pointless and crony ridden and just an embarrassment that i actually almost don't care what this woman gets. and also , why on woman gets. and also, why on earth we awarding damehood earth are we awarding a damehood to a former financier, or sorry to a former financier, or sorry to a former financier, or sorry to a successful financier who presumably has her career and her salary to say, well done? yeah. anyone using the word diversity at this point brings me out in a rash as well. so, okay, well, i'm going to i'm hoping a bit of a blank on my part. we're getting a lot of consensus here, so might just consensus here, so i might just have devil's have to start playing devil's advocate in a moment. >> so pop star advocate in a moment. >> lipa so pop star advocate in a moment. >> lipa has so pop star advocate in a moment. >> lipa has cancelledp star advocate in a moment. >> lipa has cancelled onear advocate in a moment. >> lipa has cancelled one of dua lipa has cancelled one of her upcoming music videos as she

wants sensitive of to wants to remain sensitive of to the ongoing israeli hamas war. the unreleased music video reportedly features scenes of explosions , fireworks and crowds explosions, fireworks and crowds fighting , and after a series of fighting, and after a series of emergency meetings with her team, it was decided that it would be insensitive for the video out. despite being video to come out. despite being filmed a month prior to the start the war. this comes start of the war. this comes after the fashion brand zara had to shut stores due to pro—palestine protests over their ad campaign, so okay matthew is dua lipa caving to the council? more before she's been cancelled? >> i'm going to i'm going to defend her here. no, because i think, like think, look, it's a bit like when in and you when you work in tv and you know, been filmed know, things have been filmed six and, you know, know, things have been filmed six a and, you know, know, things have been filmed six a plane and, you know, know, things have been filmed six a plane crash,i, you know, know, things have been filmed six a plane crash, youu know, know, things have been filmed six a plane crash, you don'tn, there's a plane crash, you don't put out the film about the plane crash later. it's crash two days later. it's just, you just it's you know, that's just just it's just sense. i just common sense. so i obviously this obviously haven't seen this this video has been video because it has it has been withdrawn of mere withdrawn from the view of mere mortals if it mortals like us. yes. um, if it was sort if it was full of was sort of if it was full of images of war, nobody saying it's took one side the other. it's took one side or the other. that's the it's took one side or the other. ththe the it's took one side or the other. ththe zara the it's took one side or the other. ththe zara and the the it's took one side or the other. ththe zara and the m&s. the it's took one side or the other.

ththe zara and the m&s. tmean, to the zara and the m&s. i mean, the video wasn't set in israel , the video wasn't set in israel, so it was just we thought, we don't want to put pictures of pictures of fighting at time pictures of fighting at a time of doesn't of war, then that doesn't particularly me being particularly regard me as being a cancellation. particularly regard me as being a suppose.lation. always >> i suppose there's always a war, somewhere, there war, some somewhere, isn't there 7 war, some somewhere, isn't there ? on the other ? but, you know, on the other hand, you hand, as matthew says, you know, there precedents this. hand, as matthew says, you know, therknow,)recedents this. hand, as matthew says, you know, therknow,ifcedents this. hand, as matthew says, you know, therknow, if youents this. hand, as matthew says, you know, therknow, if youents about you know, if you think about dunng you know, if you think about during the bbc during the iraq war, the bbc radio wouldn't play phil collins song tonight because radio wouldn't play phil collins songthought tonight because radio wouldn't play phil collins songthought that night because radio wouldn't play phil collins songthought that might)ecause they thought that might evoke they thought that might evoke the of bombs. the idea of bombs. >> was just good taste . >> that was just good taste. >> that was just good taste. >> they did. and >> and no, they did. and similarly there episode similarly, there was an episode of where filmed of friends where they'd filmed a whole episode had whole episode about which had a joke about bomb at airport. joke about a bomb at an airport. nine happened week, nine over 11 happened that week, and whole thing. and they reshot the whole thing. i that seems i think, actually, that seems reasonable i think, actually, that seems reasc mean, i i think, actually, that seems reascmean, i think i think, actually, that seems reasc mean, i think was >> i mean, 9/11, i think was a particularly visceral moment for the states . and so i can the united states. and so i can understand would understand why they would have been oversensitive. the been very oversensitive. but the bbc, the 1 thing, and phil bbc, the radio 1 thing, and phil collins, actually collins, i think is actually very that somebody very funny. yeah, that somebody actually that and actually went to that extent and thought, no, somebody iraq thought, oh no, somebody in iraq might and rather might hear this. and be rather upset.i might hear this. and be rather upset. i think all of my only understanding of dua lipa, who she is, is that she's a very successful pop star who is very tolerant , very open, very tolerant, very open, very progressive when it comes to the

uk , refugees welcome all uk, refugees welcome here all that diversity is that sort of thing. diversity is our she is from an our strength. but she is from an albanian kosovo background and when is when it comes to that, she is something ethno something of a rabid ethno nationalist. keen nationalist. she's very keen that countries have that other countries should have absolute no, to do in absolute no, nothing to do in the of her particular the affairs of her particular enclave and the balkans. and so there has always been a bit of a double standard whenever double standard there. whenever ihear double standard there. whenever i hear whatever is that i hear about whatever it is that she's when she's talking about, when it comes to israel—palestine specifically, it is an issue that turns perfectly sane, balanced people completely irrational. and we see this with the marches to try to shut down zara because i don't know why zara because i don't know why zara is upset. the pro—palestinians point pro—palestinians at some point you cannot bow things. you cannot bow to these things. you cannot conduct yourself in a way, in the uk because of a foreign war that has nothing to do with us halfway around the world. just because you feel that part of your that it might upset part of your fan they're easily fan base. if they're that easily triggered, they're fan base. if they're that easily trigge to i, they're fan base. if they're that easily trigge to get they're fan base. if they're that easily trigge to get upset they're fan base. if they're that easily trigge to get upset at they're fan base. if they're that easily trigge to get upset at manye fan base. if they're that easily trigge to get upset at many other going to get upset at many other things than terms of things other than in terms of dua politics. dua lipa's politics. >> here to defend >> she's not here to defend herself, . she didn't. herself, you know. she didn't. she's not returning my calls. herself, you know. she didn't. sdon't|ot returning my calls. herself, you know. she didn't. sdon't|ot ret what] my calls. herself, you know. she didn't. sdon't|ot ret what to 1y calls. herself, you know. she didn't. sdon't|ot ret what to 1y (about i don't know what to do about that. uh, to be honest. that. emma uh, to be honest. >> i the people of >> look, i think the people of both palestine have a

both israel and palestine have a lot more their on their minds both israel and palestine have a lot rone their on their minds both israel and palestine have a lot ron theirtheir on their minds both israel and palestine have a lot ron their plates] their minds both israel and palestine have a lot ron their plates to 1eir minds both israel and palestine have a lot ron their plates to dealninds both israel and palestine have a lot ron their plates to deal with and on their plates to deal with right now here or in america. >> the responses of people. >> like the responses of people. >> like the responses of people. >> is ludicrous. we are >> this is ludicrous. we are going to stage where going to get to the stage where we to even open we are frightened to even open our use a single our mouths, to use a single word, to or write or to word, to think or to write or to film anything put a film anything. she put out a very heartfelt and i thought very, um, you know , uh, very, um, you know, uh, thoughtful message on instagram saying that her heart ached for the of israel and the people of israel and palestine. yes. shouldn't that be no be enough? there is no connection between her video from about it from what we've read about it and the and what happened on october was it, you october the 7th, was it, you know because anything know, because anything could trigger someone . trigger someone. >> problem. >> this is the problem. >> this is the problem. >> trigger >> anything could trigger someone. come out someone. oh, i've just come out of relationship. and of a terrible relationship. and then see a film with a with then i see a film with a with a very scene very moving love scene or something. mean, come on, we something. i mean, come on, we need get perspective need to get some perspective here. need to get some perspective herokay. look, up, >> okay. well, look, coming up, i'm showing the i'm going to be showing you the ricky gervais material has ricky gervais material that has left woke a of left the woke left in a bit of a spin. but first is the olympic swimmer sharron davies. right that trans athletes are stealing medals from women. she's going to be joining me live next to make her case. that's not to be .

missed welcome back. you're watching tbn tonight live with me andrew doyle, the think tank policy exchange has said that trans women should be banned from competing against biological females at grassroots sport . the females at grassroots sport. the report pointed to the staggering statistic that at least three parkrun records are held by biological males in may this year , sian longthorpe, who was year, sian longthorpe, who was living as a married man until four years ago, smashed the record in the 45 to 49 age category by a full one minute and 13 seconds. and reacting to the report , former olympic the report, former olympic swimmer sharron davies said trans athletes are stealing medals from from women. i'm delighted to say that sharron davies joins me now. thank you so much forjoining me tonight. so much for joining me tonight. sharon. um, on that point, do sharon. um, on that point, we do

keep seeing these images of male athletes towering over females on the podium. it's not going away. activists always said this is just a one off thing. every now and then. it's not really affecting women's sports . but affecting women's sports. but that's not the case, is it ? no that's not the case, is it? no it's not the case at all. >> i mean, we've seen, you know, many people, including the likes of people like leah thomas, obviously, are 50 obviously, but there are 50 males that we know of at the moment women's football, moment in women's football, just in so the problem is in the uk. um, so the problem is that we know that males are bigger and stronger and faster. in fact, you know, athletics records and swimming records, all of the best women's world records are beatable by 14 year old boys. so puberty makes an absolutely massive difference . absolutely massive difference. but it's also just the biology of being male . you know, even if of being male. you know, even if you gone through you haven't gone through male puberty you puberty, you will be taller. you will bigger bigger will have bigger hands, bigger feet, capacity , feet, uh, bigger lung capacity, stronger bone density, all sorts of different things that will give you an advantage. but what's we're what's important is that we're we're making some headway in elite sport, certainly in the

big like track and field big sports like track and field and and cycling . but and swimming and cycling. but now literally throwing now we are literally throwing all the pathways all the all the pathways and all the young athletes onto, you know , young athletes onto, you know, just saying that they're not worth fair sports. so we've got about 14 million females in this country that participate in sporting , and 99.99% sporting activities, and 99.99% of them do not do elite sport. so about 1000 women in the uk earn their living from sport , earn their living from sport, 11,000 men. so you already have a much smaller piece of the cake. and you mentioned, you know , parkrun there. um, sport know, parkrun there. um, sport england give parkrun about £5 million to discriminate . but at million to discriminate. but at the moment against female athletes and to me that's wrong. so as taxpayers we need to do something about this. this is our money. tell our mps that our money. so tell our mps that we want fair sport for females. we want protected category. we want a protected category. every body must do sport. andrew, you know that . you know andrew, you know that. you know that. for everyone that. i'm keen for everyone to do . i always been, do sport. i always have been, but needs be fair and but it just needs to be fair and it be so we need it needs to be safe. so we need to open categories to either create open categories where people can identify however however,

however they like and however, if they feel comfortable or we need to create extra categories. but sport under but throwing women's sport under the not the answer. the bus is not the answer. >> i really like to >> i really do like to play devil's and and put devil's advocate and try and put express the other opinion, but in case it's very difficult in this case it's very difficult to do that because it seems so blatantly obvious that women that sports should be segregated by sex. and that's what most people believe. so but i would ask you, what do you think is going through the heads of these of these men who participate in women's they aren't of these men who participate in wom even they aren't of these men who participate in wom even slightly they aren't they even slightly ashamed of what doing? don't what they're doing? i don't know, don't know, you know, i don't understand particularly something like parkrun where there plenty of boxes that there are plenty of boxes that you can tick. >> there are boxes >> you know, there are boxes that says, you know, i don't wish announce my gender. wish to announce my gender. i mean, you can run on day mean, you can run on the day however want dress. however you want to dress. however you want to, presenting however to . and i just however you want to. and i just think to tick correct think having to tick the correct box your biology, i mean, box for your biology, i mean, you mentioned three. the fact that we think closer to that we think there's closer to 20 that are held 20 parkrun records that are held by males, and that's just here in , you know, is in the uk, you know, this is happening level of happening at every level of sport across whole . world in

sport across the whole. world in all different types of competition. just last week we were about volleyball were hearing about volleyball scholarships in america that were going to males that were supposed going to females supposed to be going to females protected under nine. protected under title nine. and even in america and even today in america and america and canada do seem to be the worst offenders. they've now just men can self just said that men can self identify boxing . and now in identify into boxing. and now in boxing, males hit 160% harder than females. boxing, males hit 160% harder than females . someone is going than females. someone is going to get killed and it's going to be a female. and to prove the obvious, the fact that we already know. >> yeah . absolutely. and the >> yeah. absolutely. and the thing about this is there is a consensus on this . i think you consensus on this. i think you would struggle to find the average person in the street who would think a good idea to would think it's a good idea to put in women's boxing, so put men in women's boxing, so why the case, given that why is it the case, given that there's an overwhelming there's such an overwhelming consensus is it? consensus on this? how is it? can the case that so many can it be the case that so many sporting bodies seem to the sporting bodies seem to take the view tiny minority of view of this tiny minority of activists ? activists? >> think you touched on >> yeah, i think you touched on it earlier in the program. actually, the equality act has a lot to do with this. so we need

clarity with the equality act. you when written you know, when it was written in 2010, sex, 2010, it used the word sex, a protected characteristic. and everybody it meant everybody knew that it meant biological sex. that now has morphed into meaning. anyone that , you know, a piece of that has, you know, a piece of paper that that female paper that says that female that's not biological sex or biological sex is biology. it is whether you have , you know, whether you have, you know, female gametes. right. and that is it. and it's a very easy thing to screen for. you know, we can do that at olympic level. we used to do it for many, many years. in fact, i've got a little card that says that i'm female as well as three kids. female as well as my three kids. so ways that so there are lots of ways that we this. think, um, we can do this. but i think, um, it's about understanding it's just about understanding that equality for that that we need equality for females in sport. the same way we do in all the, you know, other areas was. biology is other areas was. but biology is very relevant in sport. to very relevant in sport. and to pretend that that's not the case is utterly ridiculous. and as you said, people agree with you said, most people agree with this. i think there's been some bullying. think stonewall have bullying. i think stonewall have misrepresent the law. i think they've threatened to sue they've often threatened to sue when they will not sue because the protect that when they will not sue because the position protect that when they will not sue because

the position. protect that when they will not sue because the position . but'otect that when they will not sue because the position . but they'reiat that position. but they're deaung that position. but they're dealing females who dealing with young females who have into not have been intimidated into not having a voice. and that has a lot to do with it as well. so absolutely, middle aged women like me are coming out and speaking out . um, but it's very speaking out. um, but it's very hard the young ones to come hard for the young ones to come out and speak well come out and speak well and to come together know, together and, you know, to together and, you know, to together for is their power. and that's need to do. that's what they need to do. >> well, thank thank goodness you are sharon davis. thank you so much for joining me tonight. really appreciate it now. and happy new year to everybody. >> just before i go to you. >> just before i go to you. >> thank you . now natalie >> thank you. now natalie washington of the group pride sports called the policy exchange report report quote pseudoscientific political propaganda , adding women in propaganda, adding women in particular want to know that they can turn up and be included in sport, not have to participate onerous participate in onerous and invasive to run invasive sex testing to run around with their friends around a park with their friends . and spokeswoman for parkrun . and a spokeswoman for parkrun said a health charity, it is said as a health charity, it is right continue to right that we continue to prioritise enabling prioritise inclusion, enabling us to positively impact the lives hundreds thousands us to positively impact the livpeoplejndreds thousands us to positively impact the livpeople everyis thousands us to positively impact the liv people every singleiousands us to positively impact the liv people every single weekend us to positively impact the livpeople every single weekend . of people every single weekend. coming up, ricky gervais has fallen for a woke pile on. please don't go anywhere. we're

going discussing in going to be discussing that in just moments. back in a just a few moments. back in a minute warm feeling inside from >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers spot of weather on gb news is . gb news is. >> hello there! welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast i'm craig snell well looking ahead to new year's eve for most of going to end 2023 on of us we're going to end 2023 on a cheery note. and for a fairly cheery note. and for some in the south, it's still going to be pretty blustery. so as saturday we've still as we end saturday we've still got low pressure got this area of low pressure really proceedings as really dominating proceedings as this cold front will continue to spread way eastwards across spread its way eastwards across the . some fairly heavy spread its way eastwards across the on . some fairly heavy spread its way eastwards across the on it . some fairly heavy spread its way eastwards across the on it andsome fairly heavy spread its way eastwards across the on it and somefairly heavy spread its way eastwards across the on it and some strong eavy spread its way eastwards across the on it and some strong and rain on it and some strong and gusty winds. it will become quite slow moving across the very far north of scotland as we go the go through the course of the night. it. night. then behind it. it is a mixture of clear and mixture of clear spells and a scattering of showers. in the clearer skies it will turn quite chilly, but i think most of us frost from scotland frost free away from scotland and so into new year's eve, any overnight rain will quickly clear the far east of england. and for many of us it's a mixture of sunny spells and

scattered showers. some of the showers , especially come the showers, especially come the afternoon, will be heavy and thundery, but the rain across the very far north of scotland, especially for shetland, really just staying there all day. for many it's slightly cooler day than today, but still not doing too badly for the time of year. looking ahead to new year's day for many northern areas, it's a mixture of some bright spells but a scattering of showers once again . further south, a much again. further south, a much dner again. further south, a much drier and brighter day, a brief respite in the weather before unfortunately further rain comes in later . on unfortunately further rain comes in later. on in the day and that sets us up for a fairly unsettled few days as we start 2024. looks like things are heating up . heating up. >> boxt boilers sponsor us of weather on .

gb news. >> welcome back to gbn tonight with me, andrew doyle coming up this hour, ricky gervais has fallen victim to a woke pylon over the festive season, including from his fellow comics. so what does he say about the state of comedy in society today? and it's announced. the un have sent 153 migrants to rwanda , despite migrants to rwanda, despite thwarting britain's own deal and telling us rwanda isn't safe. is this hypocrisy ? we've got this hypocrisy? we've got tomorrow's papers at 10:30 pm. sharp, with full reaction from my brilliant panel. plus their heroes and villains of 2023. all this and more after the news headunes this and more after the news headlines with sophia wenzler. good evening . good evening. >> i'm sophia wenzler in the gb news room. new year's travel plans for thousands of people may be back on course after eurostar announced all of its services will resume tomorrow. the train operator says flooding in tunnels under the river thames was brought under control

. it added there could still be delays though, due to speed restrictions . earlier, the restrictions. earlier, the company apologised after a tunnel was flooded, apparently caused by a burst pipe connected to the fire safety system, leaving trains to and from london cancelled . up to 35,000 london cancelled. up to 35,000 passengers have been affected, with many left stranded at london's saint pancras station . london's saint pancras station. and for pastors are warning people to take care ahead of new year celebrations . heavy rain year celebrations. heavy rain and strong winds are expected in many parts of the country, with parts of scotland likely to see significant levels of snow. the met office says yellow alerts are in place until 3 am. tomorrow. a third man has died following a house fire in south london. emergency services were called to an address at sandestin road in croydon just before 11:00 last night. two men were pronounced dead at the scene. met police say a third man, believed to be in his 30s, died in hospital . another man is died in hospital. another man is in a life threatening condition in a life threatening condition

in hospital, while a fifth person has been discharged and the cause of the fire is being investigated . ukraine has struck investigated. ukraine has struck a series of targets in russia, killing 14 people and injuring more than 100. it comes after russia carried out its most devastating air attack since the invasion began . ukraine says the invasion began. ukraine says the brutality of the strikes, which killed 31 people, shows there can be no talk of a truce with moscow. russia requested a meeting of the united nations security council today, despite most members condemning russia's actions at an emergency gathering last night. actions at an emergency gathering last night . and the gathering last night. and the british actor tom wilkinson has died. born into a farming family in yorkshire, he won fans for his role in the classic comedy the full monty. he was nominated for an academy award twice and he took home a golden globe in 2009 for his portrayal of benjamin franklin in hbo's acclaimed miniseries john adams. full monty co—star robert carlyle paid tribute to him as one of the greats. tom wilkinson

was 75. this is gb news across the uk on tv , in your car, on the uk on tv, in your car, on your digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play . gb smart speaker by saying play. gb news. welcome back. >> coming up this hour , ricky >> coming up this hour, ricky gervais has fallen victim to a pile on over the festive season online, including from some of his fellow comics . so what does his fellow comics. so what does this say about the state of comedy and society today ? and comedy and society today? and it's announced that the un has sent 153 migrants to rwanda , sent 153 migrants to rwanda, despite stopping britain's own deal and telling us that rwanda isn't safe. so is that a hypocritical move? and we've got tomorrow's papers at 10:30 pm. sharp, and there'll be a full reaction from my brilliant panel tonight. i've got political commentator benedict commentator and writer benedict spence, author and journalist emma former labour emma wolf, and former labour adviser matthew laza. and they'll be telling us their heroes and villains from 2023. plus, the most important part of the show your views. so please

do email us at gb views at gb news.com. let's get started . now news.com. let's get started. now dunng news.com. let's get started. now during the holiday season, many of us like to sit down and watch christmas comedy specials. and ricky gervais, his new netflix show armageddon appears to have annoyed all the people. annoyed all the right people. let's look . let's have a look. >> well, i am woke now and i can prove it. there you go. i love illegal immigrants. prove it. there you go. i love illegal immigrants . use the word illegal immigrants. use the word queer used to mean someone who was attracted to the same sex as themselves. a gay man . now the themselves. a gay man. now the word queer . themselves. a gay man. now the word queer. can mean a straight man who wants some attention . man who wants some attention. >> but it turns out some other comics didn't appreciate gervais's stand up, including none other than frankie boyle, ricky gervais . ricky gervais. >> he does maybe 15 minutes where he goes, well, if a trans woman can say that they're a woman can say that they're a woman , i can say that i'm a woman, i can say that i'm a chimpanzee . i'm chimpanzee, chimpanzee. i'm a chimpanzee, and my genuine reaction was, it's not that much weirder than

ricky gervais saying that he's a stand up comedian . stand up comedian. >> so our ricky gervais gags genuinely too offensive. and if so , can we say that comedy is so, can we say that comedy is dead? well, let me know what you think. just email me at gb views at gb news. com first, let's hear from tonight's top panel. political writer political commentator and writer benedict spence. author and journalist wolfe , and journalist emma wolfe, and former advisor matthew former labour advisor matthew laza . going to you laza. i'm going to come to you first. matthew, do make first. matthew, what do you make of. first. matthew, what do you make of the first. matthew, what do you make of. the special? of. have you seen the special? >> seen the whole >> i haven't seen the whole thing. i've the thing. i've. i've seen the clips. outraged. clips. i'm not outraged. i mean, first frankie boyle first of all, frankie boyle criticising anybody good criticising anybody over good over they're in over jokes, whether they're in good not is, you know. good taste or not is, you know. yeah, that's i mean, it's quite something mildly. something to put it mildly. i mean , i think that, you know, mean, i think that, you know, gervais was just, was, just gervais was just, was, was just the they were fine. the right side. they were fine. i'm massive his. i'm not a massive fan of his. they didn't they weren't they didn't wild. they weren't wildly . i mean, wildly offensive. i mean, goodness me, you know, i'm old enough to remember the days of bernard manning and etc. this really territory. really wasn't in that territory. >> to >> it's been very interesting to see the venom and see the extent of the venom and ferocity online. it seems completely disproportionate. i mean , that clip from frankie

mean, that clip from frankie boyle, i mean, he's actually referring to an earlier show by ricky gervais. an older ricky gervais. it's an older clip, resurfaced clip, but that has resurfaced along james along with another clip by james acaster that's resurfaced . um, gervais that's resurfaced. um, but people are just using this to attack. but really, know, to attack. but really, you know, why angry ? what why are they so angry? what i don't benedict, is don't understand, benedict, is if don't a comedian, if i don't like a comedian, i just won't watch show. and if i don't like a comedian, i justproblematch show. and if i don't like a comedian, i justproblem ish show. and if i don't like a comedian, i justproblem is thereby ow. and if i don't like a comedian, i justproblem is thereby solvedd if i don't like a comedian, i justproblem is thereby solved , i the problem is thereby solved, i think. >> i think up comedy is in >> i think stand up comedy is in a of a funk. think it has a bit of a funk. i think it has been for some time, and i think it characterised the it sort of characterised by the fact got fact that you've now got different sort different comedians sort of calling each other and calling each other out and criticising each other part calling each other out and critheir1g each other part calling each other out and critheir1g earoutines, part calling each other out and critheir1g ea routines, which calling each other out and crithethink a routines, which calling each other out and crithethink a don'tes, which calling each other out and crithethink a don't see vhich calling each other out and crithethink a don't see why| don't think i don't see why anybody money to anybody would pay money to go and that, to sort and do that, you know, to sort of settle their own scores when you they've got twitter you know they've got twitter or presumably they can pick up a phone and have conversations that yes, i think that that that way. yes, i think that that is what this is a lot more. what this is about that stand comics about is that stand up comics have become characters, have become sort of characters, you personalities. have become sort of characters, you about personalities. have become sort of characters, you about the sonalities. have become sort of characters, you about the joke. ities. not not about the joke. you're not going somebody tell going to listen to somebody tell funny to funny jokes. you're going to see frankie boyle, you're going to see it's lot see ricky gervais. it's a lot more celebrity. and with more about celebrity. and with that we've that comes as we've been discussing throughout on that comes as we've been discprogram, roughout on that comes as we've been discprogram, roughou having n the program, people having to say the right things. and if part discourse generally part of the discourse generally is getting people to is about getting people to believe black is, in fact

believe that black is, in fact white, going believe that black is, in fact wisee going believe that black is, in fact wisee get going believe that black is, in fact wisee get people, going believe that black is, in fact wisee get people, you going believe that black is, in fact wisee get people, you know, g to see get people, you know, sort coming sort of, uh, you know, coming around sort shared goals . around sort of shared goals. the, the idea of the sort of the high trust society, uh, relies on sort of absolute truths that we can all agree on. well, if you get rid of those, well, you're not going to have those people coming to face people sort of coming to face face with each face or agreeing with each other. then descends other. and so then it descends into comedians into anger rather than comedians shouldn't policing each other's >> i mean, policing each other's jokes . i >> i mean, policing each other's jokes. i mean, of course >> i mean, policing each other's jokes . i mean, of course anyone jokes. i mean, of course anyone has the right to criticise. and to you know, to criticise ricky gervais if want he, he gervais if they want to. he, he himself welcome yeah himself would welcome that. yeah i'm not saying comedians shouldn't be able to. what i'm saying it's weird saying is it's weird. it's weird to that comedians do this to me that comedians do this very to me that comedians do this verbut is now because as i >> but it is now because as i say, are celebrities, say, they are celebrities, they are now what are products. and now what they're doing is they're trying to signal to a certain audience, you with because we you can stick with me because we augn you can stick with me because we align please align with each other. please give me your patronage. >> they they seem >> give me your they they seem quite genuinely angry to me. that's. >> well, that's think it >> well, that's what i think it is about. >> signalling. do you think >> it's signalling. do you think that just >> it's signalling. do you think thatweigh just >> it's signalling. do you think thatweigh into just >> it's signalling. do you think thatweigh into other just >> it's signalling. do you think thatweigh into other comics? st not weigh into other comics? there of solidarity. >> well, you said is stand up comedy me? always comedy dead to me? it's always been think stand up

been dead. i think stand up comedy the least funny thing comedy is the least funny thing in the entire world. maybe you're the right in the entire world. maybe you're ups, the right in the entire world. maybe you're ups, but the right in the entire world. maybe you're ups, but i the right in the entire world. maybe you're ups, but i have the right in the entire world. maybe you're ups, but i have toe right in the entire world. maybe you're ups, but i have to say, ht stand ups, but i have to say, i'm delighted to disagree with my my fellow panellists. my with my fellow panellists. for this evening, for the first time this evening, i that ricky gervais i thought that ricky gervais was, , comic. uh jokes, sorry was, um, comic. uh jokes, sorry 9395 was, um, comic. uh jokes, sorry gags about terminally ill children was really , really children was really, really offensive. i was doing a radio programme that night, and a woman who has two terminally ill children rang up. she was absolutely in pieces. he made this joke about, you know , this joke about, you know, giving a wish to a terminally ill children. and then he said, oh, but, you know, presumably they're just wish not they're just would wish to not be terminally this be terminally ill. and this woman describing seeing her woman was describing seeing her seven year her year seven year old and her 11 year old and daughter , who were old son and daughter, who were both dying of very, very rare conditions. and i'm not to conditions. and i'm not one to get offended . i'm really conditions. and i'm not one to get but offended . i'm really conditions. and i'm not one to get but i offended . i'm really conditions. and i'm not one to get but i justnded . i'm really conditions. and i'm not one to get but i just think i'm really conditions. and i'm not one to get but i just think he's really conditions. and i'm not one to get but i just think he's .zally not. but i just think he's. >> i didn't hear that. that sounds terrible. i didn't hear i only heard the clips of the oh, if you could give a terminally ill child one wish. >> massively overstepped ill child one wish. >> mark. massively overstepped ill child one wish. >> mark. massi'what verstepped ill child one wish. >> mark. massi'what you're)ped the mark. i know what you're going that he does look,

the mark. i know what you're goingglaisyer,�*|at he does look, the mark. i know what you're goingglaisyer, that's does look, the mark. i know what you're goingglaisyer, that's not s look, the mark. i know what you're goingglaisyer, that's not what(, ellie glaisyer, that's not what i'm going to say. >> i'm actually going >> what i'm actually going to say children, it say is that the children, it wasn't even. say is that the children, it wasit'seven. say is that the children, it wasit's not]. say is that the children, it wasit's not even that's >> it's not even funny. that's my comedy, is it funny? my test for comedy, is it funny? >> you're >> the children you're describing, the describing, though, are not the target and i think target of that joke. and i think that's point. that's that's not the point. that's really funny. no, no, >> it's not funny. no, no, no, that's absolutely not the point, andrew. topic that's absolutely not the point, an make topic that's absolutely not the point, an make jokes topic that's absolutely not the point, anmake jokes about, topic that's absolutely not the point, an make jokes about, but opic that's absolutely not the point, anmake jokes about, but some to make jokes about, but some people, frankie people, it's a bit like frankie boyle made boyle when he infamously made his of people in his jokes. a lot of people in the laughed, i know, so the audience laughed, i know, so therefore we can't a therefore we can't have a criteria to be criteria which says it has to be funny acceptable because funny to be acceptable because different find different things. >> w- w thought it >> you ask me what i thought it wasn't funny. >> w- >> it's not a funny topic for conversation to listen to a mother talking about terminally ill children dying is it? it wasn't funny. >> topic conversation >> it's a topic of conversation that approachable any that is approachable for any other though, because other art forms though, because in the previous session don't in the previous session i don't think it. well, previous about it. well, in the previous section about section we were talking about dua know, trying to dua lipa, you know, trying to ward spectres people ward off the spectres of people getting about getting very upset about israel—palestine saying, getting very upset about israel—palestine saying , oh, israel—palestine by saying, oh, my heart goes out of this, that and other. don't want to and the other. i don't want to offend actually. where offend anybody, actually. where do comedy? sort do we draw the wise comedy? sort of to jokes of not allowed to make jokes about but about things, but maybe a painter allowed to paint painter is allowed to paint thing important to thing that's really important to understand, thing that's really important to understand going at it.

people are going to laugh at it. >> we can all agree, >> i think we can all agree, though. gervais not though. ricky gervais does not find he find dying children funny, so he shouldn't about it. shouldn't really clear about it. >> i'm absolutely >> no, i'm sorry, i'm absolutely 100% this. it wasn't funny . 100% on this. it wasn't funny. that's fine. you weren't. >> to criticise >> you were free to criticise and you're free not to watch. but make to joke. >> don't worry. >> don't worry. >> i will never, ever watch a stand comedy or to a stand stand up comedy or go to a stand up comedy club in my life. when these upon these clips were inflicted upon me and i'm asked my opinion. yeah, think he massively yeah, i think he massively overstepped me overstepped the mark. and for me , as i say, that's your fault and you're not very familiar with. i've ever with. i don't think i've ever cancelled anyone in my life. and he's well boxt boiler he's cancelled. well boxt boiler cancellingjust not >> you're just choosing not you're watch. >> you're just choosing not you no, watch. >> you're just choosing not you no, cancelling ch. >> you're just choosing not you no, cancelling him >> no, no, i'm cancelling him out of my life. >> i think i be fair. mean, >> i think i be fair. i mean, i mean, i mean, obviously in the 80s, comedy 80s, when alternative comedy happened it comics happened and it was comics policing because, policing other comics because, you know, the old school were the jokes and people the butt of jokes and people like elton uh , et al, like ben elton and, uh, et al, weren't in sense, weren't they? so in a sense, every of comics has every generation of comics has criticised interesting. but i'm not taking it from frankie boyle. >> people here who seem to think that there should be to that there should be limits to comedy. with comedy. and the problem with that what you're doing is that is what you're doing is you're criticising theatrical you're criticising a theatrical performance you're criticising a theatrical perf0|that ce you're criticising a theatrical perf0|that ricky gervais makes

jokes that ricky gervais makes because inhabiting because he's inhabiting a persona on stage. it's kind of like criticising macbeth for killing a it doesn't killing a king. it doesn't really make sense. >> but because he's not, >> no, but because he's not, he's character. he's not a character. >> it's completely >> he's it's completely different to a theatrical performance this from, let's performance at this from, let's say, the roman catholic perspective, was very perspective, dave allen was very controversial when he was on television for some of the things he used to about the pope. >> and back in ireland, that was verboten. you couldn't these verboten. you couldn't say these sorts came sorts of things, father ted came along later. again sorts of things, father ted came along to later. again sorts of things, father ted came along to poke later. again sorts of things, father ted came along to poke funter. again sorts of things, father ted came along to poke fun at. again sorts of things, father ted came along to poke fun at these] it used to poke fun at these sorts of things and ultimately it eroded away of the it eroded away the sort of the sanctity. perhaps can't sanctity. now, perhaps you can't equate ill children to the roman catholic church, but for some people totems people there are totems and taboos. there are some things that can't it is that you can't touch. it is important you to be important if you wish to be allowed to, know, least allowed to, you know, at least try you get try and see what you can get away with. maybe it doesn't work and the repercussions and you take the repercussions of that, but it and of that, but maybe it does. and i important i think it's important to say that ricky gervais that people like ricky gervais do. key is do. a very important key is trying boundaries, but trying to push boundaries, but you criticised it. you can be criticised for it. >> he not known for delving >> is he not known for delving into those sensitive so into those sensitive areas? so like particular like if i had a particular sensitivity , uh, that i knew i sensitivity, uh, that i knew i would get upset by seeing someone about it. i would

someone joke about it. i would avoid the show and there are so many who do so. many comics who don't do so. >> trigger warnings? >> you want trigger warnings? >> you want trigger warnings? >> a trigger >> no, that's not a trigger warning. basic warning. that's doing some basic research buy ticket. >> it's the thing. >> it's the same thing. >> it's the same thing. >> no, it's not. but andrew >> no, no, it's not. but andrew is different because is slightly different because no one's saying, uh, the this >> no one's saying, uh, the this is what the content of the show is. i think that actually ruins the show. if you're told what the show. if you're told what the the show i the content of the show is, i just know i'm going to just know that if i'm going to get by edgy comedy, i'm get upset by edgy comedy, i'm not ricky gervais. not going to see ricky gervais. i'm not going to see jerry sadowitz, i mean? sadowitz, you know what i mean? i yeah, but the i would, but yeah, but the mother that i spoke to who had two children wouldn't two dying children wouldn't go and was and see ricky gervais, she was just deeply, hurt and she just deeply, deeply hurt and she was pain. just deeply, deeply hurt and she wasand pain. just deeply, deeply hurt and she wasand maybe pain. just deeply, deeply hurt and she wasand maybe it's. just deeply, deeply hurt and she wasand maybe it's that i have a >> and maybe it's that i have a child and you don't. child and you guys don't. i don't but . and i'm not don't know, but. and i'm not trying do special pleading . trying to do special pleading. >> mean, it sounds to >> i'm not. i mean, it sounds to me was painful. me, but it was so painful. >> child , we're talking about so >> child, we're talking about so painful to to her i painful to listen to her that i just afraid didn't even i just i'm afraid i didn't even i can't even countenance why ricky gervais thinks that is a subject for comedy. well, i suppose you'd have to ask him about that, but i think the joke and i. and i haven't the joke i. and i haven't heard the joke ehhen i. and i haven't heard the joke either. but i think what he was

talking about, the make—a—wish foundation and he said, well, presumably , the presumably a child, the terminally would make terminally ill child would make a not terminally ill. >> is that not a joke? >> is that not a joke? >> at the expense of >> actually, at the expense of the no, because >> actually, at the expense of the does no, because >> actually, at the expense of the does the no, because >> actually, at the expense of the does the work no, because >> actually, at the expense of the does the work for no, because >> actually, at the expense of the does the work for them. because he does the work for them. >> valuable work >> he does very valuable work for it just wasn't for the charity. it just wasn't it wasn't a subject for joking. no, no. often there's an element where stand up, where the performer is satirising themselves and their own gaucheness no, no, no, now you're oh no. you're making excuses. oh no. i'm saying inhabits a character. >> you don't go and see stand ups. you don't know much about it. telling there it. but i'm telling you, there is a of theatricality about is a kind of theatricality about it. similar thing with it. we have a similar thing with mike ward. the canadian comedian who make who made a joke about the make the wish foundation. he the make a wish foundation. he ended court that the make a wish foundation. he endeyand court that the make a wish foundation. he endeyand i court that the make a wish foundation. he endeyand i justrrt that the make a wish foundation. he endeyand i just kind that the make a wish foundation. he endeyand i just kind ofthat the make a wish foundation. he endeyand i just kind of think, joke, and i just kind of think, you to give some you know, we've got to give some leeway for the clowns society you know, we've got to give some le

from. another individual, in which case there is no way that a comedian could write a routine if the criteria is no one can be offended. there is no not. offended. there is no i'm not. >> criteria is some topics >> my criteria is some topics are off limits for comedy. >> my criteria is some topics are who imits for comedy. >> my criteria is some topics are who decides comedy. >> my criteria is some topics are who decides on �*nedy. >> my criteria is some topics are who decides on those topics >> my criteria is some topics aroff ho decides on those topics >> my criteria is some topics aroff limits ides on those topics >> my criteria is some topics aroff limits ?es on those topics >> my criteria is some topics aroff limits ? dom those topics >> my criteria is some topics aroff limits ? dom tidecide)ics >> my criteria is some topics aroff limits ? dom tidecide on is off limits? do you decide on those topics? this is . my point. those topics? this is. my point. there are some. >> there are some. i am the kingmaker, but there are some people who are i don't think i don't think there's much holocaust. well, i don't think there's much that's funny about there's much that's funny about the holocaust, about if it's a, it's if it's a jewish it's a what if it's a jewish comic that lived through the holocaust making it of which there were many and actually dying comics make holocaust >> jewish comics make holocaust jokes. it's think jokes. now, it's a very i think that upset if that that would upset me if family mine died in family members of mine died in the who am to the holocaust. but who am i to say what comic joke say what that comic can joke about react to it? >> i mean, i'm not saying, you know, saying i'm not in know, i'm not saying i'm not in favour of cancelling people and saying, say i saying, you can't say this. i am saying, you can't say this. i am saying know, saying it's perfectly, you know, if something if you're going to say something that offensive and that could be offensive and people offensive, then people find it offensive, then you've that you've got to take that up. you've got to soak up the criticism. you've got to soak up the crit okay, matthew, what >> okay, well, matthew, what about this as good solution? about this as a good solution? any whatever

any comic can say whatever they want criticise any comic can say whatever they want for criticise any comic can say whatever they want for saying criticise any comic can say whatever they want for saying it criticise any comic can say whatever they want for saying it theyicise any comic can say whatever they want for saying it they want. them for saying it if they want. that is a good. that works. i think is a good. that's how a free society works, i think. anyway, we've got i think. anyway, look, we've got to on. coming we've to move on. but coming up we've got tomorrow's papers at 1030 with from my with a full reaction from my brilliant panel, plus their heroes villains of 2023. but heroes and villains of 2023. but next, announced, the un next, as it's announced, the un has 153 migrants to rwanda. has sent 153 migrants to rwanda. despite thwarting britain's own deal and telling us rwanda is not safe . is this an instance of not safe. is this an instance of hypocrisy? we'll be discussing that in just a moment

radio. >> welcome back to gb. and tonight with me, andrew doyle. now it's been revealed that the united nations has sent 153 asylum seekers to rwanda , even asylum seekers to rwanda, even though they opposed britain's own scheme to send migrants to the officials in rwanda the country. officials in rwanda let the cat out of bag, let the cat out of the bag, announcing they'd welcomed scores libya scores of people from libya under high under a united nations high commissioner for refugees program. but just three months ago, the un hired a legal team to set out its grave concerns

about the uk's rwanda plan. the home secretary, james cleverly, said the un scheme highlighted rwanda's hospitality capability and commitment to hosting refugees, while tory party deputy chairman lee anderson said it is hypocrisy of the highest level . either rwanda said it is hypocrisy of the highest level. either rwanda is safe or it is not. now matthew laza is still with us to discuss this alongside the political commentator alex armstrong. uh, alex, do you agree with leigh anderson on this one? >> i couldn't agree more with him. >> and i think the want >> and i think the public want to why it's safe for the to know why it's safe for the united nations and why they think safe country think that it's a safe country to refugees to, but to send refugees to, but not safe for the uk to do so. >> it's utterly bonkers. in fact, i saw a tweet today from the from the rwanda refugees own twitter account, which is part of the un, hcr saying that that rwanda is a safe and welcoming country and that people are thriving there . so i'm so i'm thriving there. so i'm so i'm totally lost for words. >> okay, matthew, it is it is true also, isn't it, that the rwandan government is quite offended by the prospect that

it's not a safe country? i mean, this isn't going down particularly yeah particularly well there. yeah well it's not i you know, well it's not i mean, you know, what offensive rwandan government doesn't really interest me very much. >> interests is that we interest me very much. >> the interests is that we interest me very much. >> the migration is that we interest me very much. >> the migration crisis that we interest me very much. >> the migration crisis outt we interest me very much. >> the migration crisis out and saw the migration crisis out and that we treat people fairly. the two things not mutually two things are not mutually contradictory . there is a rwanda contradictory. there is a rwanda has thousands of has tens of thousands of refugees there elsewhere in refugees there from elsewhere in africa . and actually the rwandan africa. and actually the rwandan government has treated them well. are and there well. and there are and there are endless un reports saying that. so this is this is basically an absolutely artifice trial. why are sending. trial. why are you sending. >> because question >> because because the question is they're sending the migrants there because they have there because because they have nowhere else to go. >> this is not people who've appeared on the shores of britain who be processed britain who should be processed in to in britain and sent back to their country um, their original country. um, if they found not not to they if they're found not not to be here. there's a particular issue with the objection for the by the unhcr to what the british government which is government propose, which is that most of the refugees, that of most of the refugees, that of most of the refugees, that we will, of course, let's remind ourselves not a single person has been sent from britain, but people who will britain, but the people who will be from britain are likely be sent from britain are likely to of

to be from a handful of countries, including countries, uh, including adding, uh, and other countries in uh, syria and other countries in the middle east. and what basically happens rwanda is basically happens in rwanda is in system of in the rwandan system of processing people, 97% of people from countries are sent from those countries are sent back, whereas at the moment in britain, 97% of people from those countries are allowed to stay. alarmed stay. and that's what alarmed the unhcr. within the process of reviewing the british ali kadi, isn't that a fair point, that it's actually unsafe when someone fled a country someone has fled a country because they be persecuted because they might be persecuted or whatever, or tortured or whatever, and then back ' 7 m. again? >> maybe that's why is, again? >> this )e that's why again? >> this is that's why again? >> this is the 's why again? >> this is the whole point is, again? >> this is the whole point of is, but this is the whole point of the rwanda deal. >> was establish rules via >> it was to establish rules via the british government and the rwandan government through a deal won't do deal that says, we won't do that. so it doesn't say that it it doesn't say it doesn't it doesn't say it doesn't tell the rwandan government. >> it's got to keep a certain percentage or send a certain percentage or send a certain per> then i think it still goes back the point. why are back to the main point. why are the un sending refugees there? why declare safe

why do they declare it as safe people similar backgrounds, people of similar backgrounds, similar ? why are they similar religions? why are they declaring it as safe? >> almost all people un >> almost all the people the un has are not from has sent there are not from those countries. >> i think if we're looking at the way in which the media and the way in which the media and the and politicians on the the press and politicians on the left described rwanda left have described this rwanda plan an unsafe, rwanda is an plan as an unsafe, rwanda is an unsafe country. people shouldn't go there, refugees shouldn't go there. >> it's completely nobody has ever said under is ever said they were under is unsafe no, not ever said they were under is unseverybody. no, not for everybody. >> lots of labour mps >> there are lots of labour mps have said rwanda is not a safe country. >> w- w— s not a safe country. >> no, it's not a safe country. for . and that is for some people. and that is absolutely true. >> you object to the >> matthew, do you object to the nofion >> matthew, do you object to the notion uh solutions notion of offshore? uh solutions to asylum ? to asylum? >> it depends what we mean by offshore solutions. is the australian system. i'm partly australian. the australian system people were dealt system was people were dealt with australian on with under australian law on what the what was basically the equivalent jersey, rather equivalent of jersey, rather less rich, but islands off the off australian we off the australian coast. we unless stick unless we do want to stick people the isle of people in jersey or the isle of man, tony blair suggested, man, or as tony blair suggested, as week on the as we revealed this week on the isle of mull, as he as he contemplating ago. isle of mull, as he as he conwe're ating ago. isle of mull, as he as he conwe're floating ago. isle of mull, as he as he conwe're floating while >> we're floating this a while ago if offshore processing is what's happen, for what's going to happen, for example deal being

example, the deal that's being done albania , where with the done in albania, where with the italian government, done in albania, where with the italian government , where people italian government, where people are by the italian are processed by the italian system , they are dealt with by system, they are dealt with by italian judges, but they happen to in albania to be sitting in albania just across from italy. across the sea from from italy. >> alarms me less than a >> that alarms me less than a scheme which is about shipping people be dealt with under people to be dealt with under somebody else's and that's people to be dealt with under son difference. 's and that's people to be dealt with under son difference. so and that's people to be dealt with under son difference. so then.nd that's people to be dealt with under sondifference. so then id that's people to be dealt with under sondifference. so then i think's the difference. so then i think that's that's completely goes against sovereignty against the idea of sovereignty and having our government process different process people in a different country. >> i don't agree with that. i think that raises think that that really raises questions about whether we're imposing colonial style. >> how is it imposing colonial system on rwanda if we're putting them over to rwanda? system on rwanda if we're putwe them over to rwanda? system on rwanda if we're putwe have] over to rwanda? system on rwanda if we're putwe have to.'er to rwanda? system on rwanda if we're putwe have to. i'mo rwanda? system on rwanda if we're putwe have to. i'm not/anda? >> we have to. i'm not suggesting we do that rwanda. suggesting we do that in rwanda. >> suggesting we, you >> i'm suggesting that we, you know, other know, do that with any other country world. know, do that with any other couand world. know, do that with any other couand it's world. know, do that with any other couand it's vysame issue, >> and it's the same issue, right? them right? you could send them to germany they're safe germany and say they're not safe in germany xyz reasons. you in germany for xyz reasons. you can them to and say can send them to britain and say they're not safe. jews aren't safe in britain anymore because of on the of what's going on in the streets plenty of streets here. there's plenty of arguments made that arguments to be made that rwanda is not a safe country, but at the the day, the united the end of the day, the united nafions the end of the day, the united nations themselves are sending people that, nations themselves are sending people we're that, nations themselves are sending people we're also that, nations themselves are sending people we're also spending at, andrew, we're also spending millions we are the millions of pounds. we are the fifth contributor. we

fifth biggest contributor. we spend every five spend half $1 billion every five years funding the united nations, only to have their legal slap in face. so. >> but isn't the problem? not necessarily that rwanda necessarily that the rwanda solution fit for purpose? solution isn't fit for purpose? isn't the problem we have isn't the problem that we have a migration maybe if we migration crisis and maybe if we solve that, rather than trying to sort of farm out these people to sort of farm out these people to various other countries. to sort of farm out these people to \well,; other countries. to sort of farm out these people to \well, what r countries. to sort of farm out these people to \well, what how1ntries. to sort of farm out these people to \well, what how doies. to sort of farm out these people to \well, what how do we solve >> well, what how do we solve this crisis? stop this crisis? we can't stop people over the boats. people coming over on the boats. it's see the thing it's clear to see the only thing that's stopping people. >> more do. >> there's a lot more we can do. we can smash the gangs. >> gangs. >> oh, smash the gangs. >> oh, smash the gangs. >> mean, i've heard this this >> i mean, i've heard this this phrase to back. phrase back to back. someone tell labour going to tell me how labour are going to smash matthew. >> interested. >> because i'm interested. because to say that because labour seems to say that they've on they've got the silver bullet on this keep keep this and they keep they keep talking will sort talking about how they will sort this of the small this problem out of the small boat. because they're boat. what is, because they're being between two. >> the two principal of >> the two principal parts of smashing which smashing the gangs, which is one which had 13 which the tories have had 13 years to do it and haven't done it, terrorism it, is use terrorism and anti—terrorism legislation , anti—terrorism legislation, which the which would really help the police and border force and would and would mean that that would and would mean that that would give a real boost to smashing the gangs. and the second one is setting up a new cross border police force. but

the for the tories won't do it for ideological they're ideological reasons. so they're not interested in it. >> not they're not the problem. >> no. >> em- em— 5 other side of the. >> it's the other side of the. >> it's the other side of the. >> exactly, exactly. >> it's the other side of the. >> wanttly, exactly. >> it's the other side of the. >> want us exactly. >> it's the other side of the. >> want us to actly. >> it's the other side of the. >> want us to do .y. >> it's the other side of the. >> want us to do have >> you want us to do have met police in france? >> actually, yes . to have >> yeah. actually, yes. to have it work. >> it doesn't we've >> it doesn't work. we've already funding. >> it doesn't work. we've already we funding. >> it doesn't work. we've already we haven'tng. >> it doesn't work. we've already we haven't been doing >> no, we haven't been doing that. we haven't. we've been that. no, we haven't. we've been writing blank checks to the french government. writing blank checks to the fre|that's/ernment. writing blank checks to the fre|that's/ernitrue. >> that's not true. >> that's not true. >> what would do >> that's not true. >> it? what would do >> that's not true. >> it? because it would do >> that's not true. >> it? because asvould do >> that's not true. >> it? because asvoulrsay, do about it? because as you say, the the problem is in the origin of the problem is in france. are not france. yes. they are not deaung france. yes. they are not dealing with criminal gangs france. yes. they are not dealithere. h criminal gangs france. yes. they are not dealithere. right.:riminal gangs france. yes. they are not dealithere. right. sorinal gangs france. yes. they are not dealithere. right. sorinal garyou over there. right. so how do you deal with them? >> need a strong deterrent. deal with them? >> i need a strong deterrent. deal with them? >> i actually strong deterrent. deal with them? >> i actually strongthat's'rent. deal with them? >> i actually strongthat's what and i actually think that's what parts bill. parts of this bill. i'm not saying the roundabout is perfect, i would perfect, by the way. i would like lot more done like to see a lot more done to it. i do think you see this as a deterrent. yes, it will be, because illegal because if a if illegal immigrants are coming to the country and they're seeing their rights, to rights, you are never going to get are never get citizenship. you are never going to stay going to be allowed to stay in this you will be this country. you will be shipped off. will stop shipped off. they will stop because they will see it as a dead end. because they will see it as a deathere's no evidence for that. >> there's no evidence for that. >> there's no evidence for that. >> semantics. >> well, it's just semantics. it's nature, it's just human nature, isn't it? to go it? you're not going to go somewhere waste your somewhere and waste all your money going somewhere. money and time going somewhere. you be able to stay. >> no, no, because at most, at most are going most a thousand people are going to to at most. to be sent to rwanda at most. >> absolutely at most

>> no, absolutely not. at most a thousand going thousand people are going to be sent what need sent to rwanda. what we need is a system works. you a system that works. so you don't don't don't have people, you don't have up, have applications piling up, which have which is the tories have completely to which completely failed to do, which is so much is why they're spending so much money it's a complete money on hotels. it's a complete failure a horrendous. failure of a system horrendous. and not and rwanda is not. rwanda is not the government and tories >> government and the tories haven't solved it. >> absolutely >> absolutely. it absolutely didn't sorted didn't because we sorted the problem the problem because we got the sangatte camp closed calais, sangatte camp closed in calais, because with because we actually work with our do our european partners to do it. the been taken the tories have just been taken for a ride. >> well, look, it's >> okay, well, look, it's getting heated. don't getting very heated. i don't think agree think we're going to agree tonight, on. but tonight, so let's move on. but coming just a moment, coming up in just a moment, we've got, uh, tomorrow's papers at full reaction at 1030 with a full reaction from uh plus from my brilliant panel. uh plus their heroes and villains of 2023. for the 2023. thank you both for the debate. pleasure. do you not go anywhere

>> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> welcome back to gbn tonight with me, andrew doyle. it is 1030, so it's time to, uh, look at tomorrow's front pages . so at tomorrow's front pages. so we're going to start with the sunday express pm. more tax cuts to come. uh, we've got the

observer here, which is starmer lacks clear sense of purpose. says x policy chief. uh, the . says x policy chief. uh, the. sunday telegraph is leading with a number 10 plan to expose labour debt risks , and the labour debt risks, and the sunday times says they've got starmer beat sunak head to head, say poll . he's been doing that say poll. he's been doing that for a while, hasn't he? let's move on to the next one. this is the sun on sunday emily by be joy the sun on sunday emily by be joy in between a star to have a baby with new love and moving on to the daily star now have we booths year we will down 50 million drinks tonight. apparently speak for yourself. let's get my reaction from my panel here. well, let's start with this. uh, the sunday express rishi saying more tax . express rishi saying more tax. cuts to come. well, this is good news, emma. what do you think? >> well, that's a surprise. yeah. oh >> how many different policies have floating around have we had floating around dangled have we had floating around dangthe past week? it's over the past week? it's that crazy time christmas and crazy time between christmas and new year. yeah. where

politicians to lose the politicians seem to lose the plot completely. starmer was offering us free childcare for everybody early years, everybody in the early years, like a few days yes we like a few days ago. yes then we had the resurgence of, um, slashing inheritance, you know, uh, tax . uh, abolishing inheritance tax. and now we've got more tax cuts to , but not now. some to come, but not now. at some point, he'll off the, the point, he'll get off the, the coke zero or whatever. he's you know, the thing that he dances around drinks 10 downing know, the thing that he dances arouncand drinks 10 downing know, the thing that he dances arouncand they'll 10 downing know, the thing that he dances arouncand they'll come downing know, the thing that he dances arouncand they'll come back|ing know, the thing that he dances arouncand they'll come back to; street and they'll come back to down earth and realise that they've to actually cost they've got to actually cost some policies . some of these policies. >> cuts good for >> but aren't tax cuts good for winning electorate round? winning the electorate round? >> and i should should >> and i should say, i should say quite sceptical say clearly quite sceptical of rishi sceptical. say clearly quite sceptical of rishi all sceptical. say clearly quite sceptical of rishi all politicians,. >> yeah. of all politicians, but particularly the tories. yes. they've budget they've got their spring budget looming. are very clearly looming. they are very clearly both parties on an election footing. labour, especially , footing. labour, especially, really talking up the chances of an early election in which an early election in may, which i probably the i think is probably for the birds. this is just birds. but yeah, so this is just more dangling . birds. but yeah, so this is just mo what|gling . birds. but yeah, so this is just mo what|gli|you think, benedict? >> what do you think, benedict? >> what do you think, benedict? >> is my response >> alhamdulillah is my response to this. it's fantastic news to this. it's a fantastic news and i'll believe it when see and i'll believe it when i see it. right. it's those it. all right. it's one of those things where, you know, as you as saying in as you were saying in conjunction with prospect conjunction with the prospect of an election, you an early general election, you almost are the almost sort of thinking, are the tories massively over

tories going to massively over promise many taxes they're promise how many taxes they're going not necessarily going to cut? not necessarily costing everything go, but costing everything and go, but you these if you you can only have these if you vote us now . it's vote for us right now. it's going really short going to be a really short penod going to be a really short period right period of time because right now all promises and all we've got are promises and ideas. nothing concrete . ideas. there's nothing concrete. >> is there anything that rishi can win this next election? >> i think probably not. but i think of this random think that sort of this random dangung think that sort of this random dangling cuts think that sort of this random da|different cuts think that sort of this random da|different days, cuts think that sort of this random da|different days, which cuts think that sort of this random da|different days, which doesn't on different days, which doesn't happen. absolutely happen. it's absolutely desperate. i mean, we've the inheritance. is inheritance. so this story is about, millions in about, um, helping millions in their packet , which implies their pay packet, which implies that inheritance tax , that it isn't inheritance tax, which therefore means that the dangung which therefore means that the dangling of a tax cut three days ago now being taken away ago is now being taken away again. being dangled ago is now being taken away agaira being dangled ago is now being taken away agaira different being dangled ago is now being taken away agaira different taxeing dangled ago is now being taken away agaira different tax eingbecausei with a different tax cut because they certainly afford they certainly can't afford both, afford both, even if they can afford ehhen both, even if they can afford either. it's all, either. so it's just it's all, it's talk and no delivery. >> what about dangling for everyone . everyone. >> everyone because they were going baubles every. going to give baubles every. >> yeah well you can't that going to give baubles every. >> �*you. well you can't that going to give baubles every. >> �*you. and you can't that going to give baubles every. >> �*you. and the can't that going to give baubles every. >> �*you. and the elderly that going to give baubles every. >> �*you. and the elderly weret going to give baubles every. >> 'y(to and the elderly weret going to give baubles every. >> 'y(to benefitz elderly weret going to give baubles every. >> 'y(to benefitz eldethe weret going to benefit from the inheritance going to benefit from the inhyand nce going to benefit from the inhyandnce the going to benefit from the inhyand nce the young the first >> and also the young the first time they were all going time buyers, they were all going to get homes as well. >> is >> yeah. i think this is a pushback because i think i think >> yeah. i think this is a pusinheritancere i think i think >> yeah. i think this is a pusinheritance taxi think i think >> yeah. i think this is a pusinheritance tax cuts,k i think >> yeah. i think this is a pus inheritance tax cuts, which1k the inheritance tax cuts, which affect of households, affect 5% of, of, of households, um, realised that it may um, they realised that it may have well and save

have done well to try and save the blue but if you're in the blue wall, but if you're in the blue wall, but if you're in the red wall, it meant and it saves 300 million. saves rishi about 300 million. i just, to move to just, i just want to move on to the observer. >> the observer has got this >> now the observer has got this headune >> now the observer has got this headline lacks headline starmer lacks clear sense of purpose says x policy chief. cruddas chief. this is a john cruddas who is a written a book. really, this a plug for his this is a bit of a plug for his book. the observer. this this is a bit of a plug for his b> corbyn really succeeded in making the labour party as middle class as possible. >> exactly. weird. yes exactly. >> don't equate i totally >> so i don't equate i totally agree, i don't equate the left being the representative of the working class. look, i think politics in terms politics has a problem in terms of tune with of people being in tune with that. more working that. we need more working class voices. rayner, you know, voices. angela rayner, you know, with a genuine, you know, workingto sort of, you know, dig

having to sort of, you know, dig out as miner to out a grandfather as a miner to make she gets castigated make it. she gets castigated all the was the time. john cruddas was the policy uh, at policy chief when i was, uh, at the of the labour party. the centre of the labour party. and i like john a lot. so he's a mate? well, he's not a mate mate? well, no, he's not a mate because john a because he's always john takes a slightly cynical and slightly aloof and cynical and analytical this analytical perspective. and this is push book. is obviously to push his book. i mean, course keir would mean, um, of course keir would say working. know, he say he is working. you know, he comes working class comes from a working class background he tells it, background and as he tells it, in he mentions in every speech he mentions his dad factory. yes, dad worked in a factory. yes, absolutely. go absolutely. although he did go into management at the end. um, yeah. didn't he own the factory? no, he certainly didn't own the factory. but he did get promoted to to supervisory to management or to supervisory role halfway through. >> starmer asked >> it wasn't, uh, starmer asked to working class the to define working class the other and really other day, and he really couldn't it. i'm couldn't do it. well i'm the problem every problem is, everybody and every every poll, everybody says they're the middle classes, >> even the middle classes, because we all want to think, >> even the middle classes, becalit's ne all want to think, >> even the middle classes, becalit's as all want to think, >> even the middle classes, becalit's a factory. it to think, well, it's a factory. >> actually captain >> but he was actually a captain of mean, he genuinely wasn't a >> i mean, he genuinely wasn't a captain industry. you captain of industry. but, you know, mean, know, benedict, i mean, you've got image a young got a mental image of a young keir in keir starmer there in knickerbockers his father knickerbockers with his father with looking at all with a top hat, looking at all of how working. of this going, look how working. if of industry, if you were captain of industry, you name your kid keir. you don't name your kid keir. to be you're not you're

be fair, you're not you're not a fan, are you? >> jon cruddas, or >> of starmer, jon cruddas, or is i think keir is it's i think i think keir starmer a brighter politician starmer is a brighter politician than him than a lot of people give him credithink he further the >> i think he is further to the left ideologically lot of left ideologically than a lot of people. credit it left ideologically than a lot of pe because credit it left ideologically than a lot of pe because he credit it left ideologically than a lot of pe because he is credit it left ideologically than a lot of pebecause he is smart: it left ideologically than a lot of pebecause he is smart that it left ideologically than a lot of pebecause he is smart that he is because he is smart that he keeps lot this under wraps. keeps a lot of this under wraps. he was not to prime he was not meant to be a prime minister. he was meant to detoxify the party. in detoxify the labour party. in the corbyn the aftermath of the corbyn years, expecting to years, he was not expecting to be into this situation. years, he was not expecting to be you into this situation. years, he was not expecting to be you sayinto this situation. years, he was not expecting to be you say thatthis situation. years, he was not expecting to be you say that smart:uation. years, he was not expecting to be you say that smart:uatltn. >> you say that smart is. it isn't. isn't better to be isn't. isn't it better to be very of the very smart that all of the politicians what they politicians tell us what they actually than we actually think, rather than we have what have to try and work out what they be ridiculous. >> they what we >> well, they told us what we actually then nobody >> well, they told us what we actualivote then nobody >> well, they told us what we actualivote them. robody would vote for them. >> it's i think we've to >> it's i think we've got to remember very cynical. >> trying to detoxify the >> he is trying to detoxify the party done a very good party and he's done a very good job to things like job when it comes to things like anti—semitism. but there is still, residual still, i think, a residual suspicion, or at least within the aspects. the party, certain aspects. there that parts of there is a fear that parts of the cling on the electorate still cling on to. was corbyn to. what was the corbyn years and trust and don't necessarily trust them. think them. and that's why i think that they being that they are being very cautious of putting cautious in terms of not putting out of particularly out any sort of particularly wild policy. i also think that they understand the economic situation that they're going to inherit through no fault of their to be a their own is going to be a disastrous they will not disastrous and they will not be given same amount

given the same amount of time that given. that the tories have been given. they the same they won't be given the same amount patience. it be amount of patience. it will be a really slog. won't be really hard slog. they won't be able turn around in five able to turn around in five years time. if it's been as bad as it has been and say, well, you gave the tories 13 years, people will well, that's tough. >> i you're saying he's >> i mean, you're saying he's more left leaning than people give this give him credit for, but this book be suggesting that book seems to be suggesting that he's tethered to the he's not really tethered to the traditionalist the traditionalist values of the laboun traditionalist values of the labour, likes labour, the labour party likes to it likes to to fight itself, and it likes to do very dirty. to fight itself, and it likes to do there'sy dirty. to fight itself, and it likes to do there's onety. to fight itself, and it likes to do there's one big about >> there's one big thing about him, actually not him, which is actually he's not that political, which before everybody starts laughing, is most in politics most people in politics spend their you their life in politics. yes. you know, in know, i you know, i've sat in meetings been told meetings where i've been told about where he's not about meetings where he's not known, were cabinet known, people who were cabinet ministers and brown ministers under blair and brown because rather than being a special and special adviser in the blair and brown special adviser in the blair and broypeople around the shadow the people around the shadow cabinet busy cabinet table, he was busy being the prosecutor. he's the chief prosecutor. so he's not. know what cruddas not. yeah, i know what cruddas means, that he's not sort of. he hasn't spent his life in those internal labour battles. >> political . let's >> he's not a political. let's get your on this. that's get your view on this. that's much get your view on this. that's mu do it better than that? >> starmer himself is the >> starmer himself is not the right lead the labour right person to lead the labour party. exactly. is that what you think? >> well, i think he's >> well, to me, i think he's he's to make any

he's failed to make any, any impact at all. and, you know, it's better to make some kind of impression people than impression on people than none. and it's interesting impression on people than none. and john it's interesting impression on people than none. and john cruddasaresting impression on people than none. and john cruddas is sting impression on people than none. and john cruddas is saying. what john cruddas is saying. he's , well, clearly what john cruddas is saying. h decent , well, clearly what john cruddas is saying. h decent principal clearly what john cruddas is saying. h decent principal hearly a decent principal man. he remains leader , remains an elusive leader, difficult and it does difficult to find. and it does feel as though starmer, for all his, you know, probably admirable qualities, just has not made any impression on, on. >> well, that's i think that's interesting because this actually sunday times set out vision. >> he hasn't set out many policies either. >> emma the sunday times headune >> emma the sunday times headline actually has this starmer beat head to head, starmer beat sunak head to head, says poll. >> this is. >> this is. >> but to me 32% prefer the labour leader 20. >> well, 22% that's not >> well, 22% back pm. that's not i mean, you say that he's very much to me is a failure of sunak because he's so unpopular rather than that starmer has in any way impressed people and i would suspect i haven't read it in detail. >> i would suspect that question is do you prefer one or the other? >> isn't that in sunaks own constituency? >> yeah, is bad, which is >> yeah, which is bad, which is very bad. i mean, it's appalling, but this is appalling, but, but, but this is bad for news but i'm

bad for news sunak. but what i'm saying think this is saying is i think this is probably of do you probably a question of do you prefer or sunak. prefer starmer or sunak. >> but he's got 27,000 majority. >> but he won't have that for long. mean is long. i mean but this is not a key target seat . this is this is key target seat. this is this is bizarre because one of the bizarre to me because one of the recent polls sort of found that even of hard tory even the kind of die hard tory voters of old that even they most them now it's a slight most of them now it's a slight majority don't support or majority don't really support or are sceptical about the conservative can't conservative party. they can't even own even keep their own voters onside. benedict is there any hope them? i mean, no, hope for them? i mean, no, they're not really conservative, are they? no. >> but for this general election, this gone election, i think this is gone and going be this sort and it's going to be this sort of the browbeating and the sort of the browbeating and the sort of the browbeating and the sort of the defenestration that comes afterwards. see afterwards. and we might see what emerges from the ashes. but i sense, in one i mean, in the sense, in one sense, jon cruddas sense, actually, jon cruddas is correct. starmer is an correct. uh, keir starmer is an elusive leader. he's so far out of keir starmer that, of sight of keir starmer that, you know, completely elusive and it's that you know, completely elusive and it'shas that you know, completely elusive and it's has no that you know, completely elusive and it'shas no personalityt he has next to no personality but ultimate . what this comes but ultimate. what this comes down to i mean, it is true. >> yeah, it does. >> yeah, it does. >> but ultimately what this comes is not necessarily comes down to is not necessarily about being a character, about being a big character, because through because we've been through the

big cameron , big characters, be it cameron, be it, uh, boris, be it, uh, tony blair, it was all about personality. actually. it hasn't hasn't good track hasn't had a very good track record. they want now is a record. what they want now is a sense of quiet competence. and you say also pushing you have to say by also pushing other forefront , other people to the forefront, be reeves, be it be it rachel reeves, be it especially, i think, wes streeting talks good streeting who talks a very good game given game on the nhs, he's given a sort of a collegiate approach, saying not just me, saying it's not just about me, i'm the man. i can't i'm not the big man. i can't give you personality. i can give you that personality. i can give you that personality. i can give person and i can give you this person and i can give you this person and i can give this. give you this. >> fairness to him, i'm sure >> in fairness to him, i'm sure he does have personality, but >> in fairness to him, i'm sure he (he's have personality, but >> in fairness to him, i'm sure he (he's note personality, but >> in fairness to him, i'm sure he (he's not a personality, but >> in fairness to him, i'm sure he (he's not a performer. :y, but >> in fairness to him, i'm sure he (he's not a performer. you jt but he's not a performer. you know, we this presidential know, we have this presidential style you know, know, we have this presidential style had you know, know, we have this presidential style had that you know, know, we have this presidential style had that since. know, know, we have this presidential style had that since. since we've had that since. since blair, really? blair, since thatcher. really? yeah. and that's what we're used to. just expect, to. i mean, just expect, you know, have know, we may well have the debates up we have a debates coming up if we have a may literally a few may election in literally a few weeks imagine the debates? >> can you imagine the debates? we're know, they're not we're you know, they're not going world alight going to set the world alight between sunak ed davey who we must quick in. must get a quick mention in. >> oh blimey. >> oh blimey. >> know, i mean >> and keir, you know, i mean none whom you even none of whom would you know even their say their best friends would say they're performers the, they're not performers in the, you johnson , blair mould. >> we want we more trump >> so we want we want more trump . say that might . i was going to say that might that suit that might suit that might suit that might suit the it bores everybody.

do think this really >> do you think this is really about at this point about personality at this point in politics? you that in politics? you know that that's we're for i think. >> i think it'll all come down to what voters i think to what tory voters do. i think like so many like me, there are so many decent tories not decent homeless like tories not knowing to put their knowing where to put their votes. might go. going knowing where to put their votyeah, might go. going knowing where to put their votyeah, exactly ight go. going knowing where to put their votyeah, exactly .]hl go. going knowing where to put their votyeah, exactly . many. going knowing where to put their votyeah, exactly . many maybe up to. yeah, exactly. many maybe up to. yeah, exactly. many maybe up to 10% go reform and then we're going to calamitously split the vote. really, really vote. so it's really, really hard to call isn't it. >> although isn't the split vote quite good do they stay home? >> although isn't the split vote qui'i�* good do they stay home? >> although isn't the split vote qui'i�* good! do they stay home? >> although isn't the split vote qui'i�* goodi think hey stay home? >> although isn't the split vote qui'i�* goodi think turnout' home? >> although isn't the split vote qui'i�* good i think turnout willne? >> i think i think turnout will be issue. a massive be a massive issue. a massive sort of decider as well. >> this be good the >> won't this be good for the conservative party in a way, because now they're being punished know. punished at the polls, you know. >> punished >> yes, they're being punished and face up, you and they may well face up, you know, a decade of or know, a decade out of power or never all. never come back at all. >> as william said , >> as william hague said, because landscape because the landscape has shifted think shifted so much. but i think that will the decider rather that will be the decider rather than any former tories rushing to for starmer . to vote for starmer. >> but do we have any time to have a look at one more paper? we've got the daily star happy booths apparently we're booths year. apparently we're going 50 million drinks going to drink 50 million drinks tonight on the wildest new year's eve for a decade. >> is that tomorrow. this >> is that that's tomorrow. this is tomorrow.

>> these are tomorrow's paper. sorry yes. >> these are tomorrow's paper. sor so yes. >> these are tomorrow's paper. sorso unless. >> these are tomorrow's paper. sorso unless unless you do it >> so unless unless you do it every night, i remind everyone this new year's this is new year's eve. >> yes. >> ea“ night. exactly. but you are >> exactly. but if you are drinking tonight, you drinking tonight, then you know, fair tonight. drinking tonight, then you know, fairyeah, tonight. drinking tonight, then you know, fairyeah, just tonight. drinking tonight, then you know, fairyeah, just t0|million free >> yeah, just 49 million free drinking. that's not news, though, it? i mean, don't though, is it? i mean, don't they year's they do this every new year's eve, they do this every new year's eve they they. yeah. they do this every new year's evethey they. yeah. them as in >> they they. yeah. them as in the people that don't work. the people. exactly. i'm at people. yeah, exactly. i'm at work, i can't drink. >> no. what think? >> no, no. so what do you think? >> no, no. so what do you think? >> sounds about >> i think it's sounds about right. mean, how many right. yeah. i mean, how many people the country, people are there in the country, but like saying everybody but that's like saying everybody on their on christmas day on their christmas 7000 calories. >> well , i calories. >> well, i don't calories. >> well , i don't know. they do, >> well, i don't know. they do, do they? some people probably do. >> demonstrably proven that everybody eats 7000. >> is it that bad? >> is it that bad? >> the average christmas dinner? >> the average christmas dinner? >> matter people >> the average christmas dinner? >> night matter people >> the average christmas dinner? >> night anatter people >> the average christmas dinner? >> night a yearer people >> the average christmas dinner? >> night a year that's people >> the average christmas dinner? >> night a year that's peo even one night a year that's not even one night a year that's not even one each, it? one drink each, is it? >> no point. >> no point. >> oh that's that's >> oh that's right, that's right. >> oh that's right, that's rigiwell, for adults because >> well, it's for adults because you've the away >> well, it's for adults because you'v 60 the away >> well, it's for adults because you'v60 million the away >> well, it's for adults because you'v60 million inthe away >> well, it's for adults because you'v60 million in france away >> well, it's for adults because you'v60 million in france orway from 60 million in france or italy. wouldn't a problem. >> this wouldn't be a problem. >> this wouldn't be a problem. >> yeah. no. >> yeah. no. >> even france, three >> even in france, that three year i'm interested. year olds. um, i'm interested. why going why are we going to have a bigger a bigger boozier new bigger, a bigger and boozier new year new than in over year this new year than in over the last few years? bearing in

mind cost living crisis mind the cost of living crisis have britain . have broken britain. >> depressed. >> we're all depressed. >> we're all depressed. >> maybe because of >> maybe that's maybe because of the cost living crisis people the cost of living crisis people are i headlines like this. >> i love headlines like this. i always feel how great i'm going to new day to feel on new year's day morning. well not getting morning. well not really getting up the morning. but up at four in the morning. but anyway. you're not anyway. and because you're not drinking, because i'll be working. yeah. and rubbish working. yeah. and how rubbish they'll and clear they'll feel. how smug and clear headed healthy feel. headed and healthy i'll feel. i'll be fine. >> i'll still be from the >> i'll still be drunk from the night don't plan on night before. i don't plan on going to sleep. >> ultimately the two >> that's ultimately the two different >> that's ultimately the two diffokay, coming up , >> that's ultimately the two diffokay, coming up, more >> okay, well, coming up, more of newspaper front of tomorrow's newspaper front page. of tomorrow's newspaper front page . we've still mail page. we've still got the mail and mirror to look at with and the mirror to look at with some live reaction in the studio from tonight's brilliant panellist . and they'll panellist. and they'll be nominating heroes and nominating their heroes and villains of 2023. see you in a moment .

welcome back to gbn tonight with me, andrew doyle. it's time for some more of tomorrow's front pages. so we've got the mail here and there leading with a

story. five day work from home deals for pampered mandarins. apparently, whitehall civil servants are getting a deal where they can basically work from home five days a week. pretty astonishing stuff. and then the mirror is leading with this one. 150, sorry, 175,000. asked why do the royals exist? this is a poll that the mirror is running, so you'll have to read the mirror if you want to know the result . okay, well, know the result. okay, well, let's have a quick chat about this story about the civil service. is an service. i mean, this is an interesting matthew working interesting one. matthew working for him. this is just in the wake of the pandemic, it? wake of the pandemic, isn't it? people used to people have just got so used to being at home. >> yeah. i mean, i don't know what's happened because we've gone from jacob rees—mogg of this um, this parish going around, um, putting on, on, on empty putting notes on, on, on empty desks saying , you know, we desks saying, you know, we expect to see you back you expect to see you back or you need to do five days a week in the office through to, um, apparently people going to be offered from home offered permanent work from home contracts . i mean, what contracts. i mean, this is what benedict saying earlier. contracts. i mean, this is what beneis ct saying earlier. contracts. i mean, this is what beneis ct tories ng earlier. contracts. i mean, this is what beneis ct tories getting er. this is the tories getting upset. , crying upset. and, you know, crying out the the culture the next item in the culture war, the next woke atrocity,

when charge, they run when they're in charge, they run the service they're the civil service they're signing this off. tory ministers are signing this off. um, well, maybe. are signing this off. um, well, ma'i)e. is it the case that >> i mean, is it the case that civil servants can civil servants benedict can work from home with equal effectiveness, something that actually needs to be borne in mind there isn't the mind is that there isn't the office space for all the civil servants currently servants that we currently have on the rolls that needs to be taken into account. >> obviously that doesn't >> now, obviously that doesn't justify, uh, some people on permanent day work from permanent five day work from home contracts, i'm home contracts, but i'm not necessarily the necessarily opposed to the concept of working home concept of working from home where it work. where you can make it work. i think it is potentially think that it is potentially a very good idea, a good way of if you like, decentralising the concentration of power in westminster in central london, of having people having of just having people having to work very specifically, um, in certain parts of whitehall, if you can people , um, you can get people, um, elsewhere parts of elsewhere in other parts of the country regularly. >> they doing here, >> are they doing that here, though? but think that though? i are, but i think that if this was what we were trying to push forward with and were to push forward with and we were sort i sort of embracing technology, i do think that is part of do think that this is part of the future. >> and think if you if >> and i think that if you if you are able to if you like, spread all your all of spread out all of your all of your options and have people across country if

across the country working, if they work in that they are able to work in that capacity, there are some jobs that but that people can't do, but i don't necessarily don't think it's necessarily a bad idea. i also looked at the fact that, you know, have so fact that, you know, we have so many cities and many towns and cities and villages country that many towns and cities and vill sort country that many towns and cities and vill sort being, yuntry that many towns and cities and vill sort being, uh,y that are sort of being, uh, depopulated because young people are sort of being, uh, depjust ated because young people are sort of being, uh, depjust ated bdragged oung people are sort of being, uh, depjust ated bdragged int0| people are just being dragged into london and manchester and birmingham we birmingham and you think if we can actually, can make it easier, actually, for be more can make it easier, actually, for better be more can make it easier, actually, for better populated'e can make it easier, actually, for better populated with broadly better populated with younger working and, you younger people working and, you know, contributing to those communities , that's not communities, that's not necessarily a bad thing. you look like italy or look at countries like italy or spain, villages spain, where entire villages have just emptied people have just been emptied of people because for because there are no jobs for them. think, we them. they only think, well, we have well, have the technology. well, i think people to stay think to allow people to stay there and keep working. why don't we embrace? >> the >> well, if that were the impulse decision, impulse behind this decision, then maybe be fair then maybe that would be fair enough. then maybe that would be fair enough . i don't think it is, enough. i don't think it is, though. i think something else is happening it? is happening here, isn't it? >> emma and i think the key word in for in this headline, the deals for pampered is pampered. pampered mandarins, is pampered. >> think have remember >> i think we have to remember that is an that working from home is an absolute luxury that many north people that do normal jobs stacking shelves, cleaning our streets, looking after on gb news, presenting, coming into

television , studios, home, we i television, studios, home, we i well, no looking after our elderly looking after our babies. all of that kind of stuff. looking after people in hospital. they can't work from home. they don't have the option of working only of working from home. only yesterday , the headline in i yesterday, the headline in the i can't remember which it can't remember which paper it was about civil servants was was about civil servants being overpromoted in order to in order to bust this pay freeze thing that they've had. so they were overpaid and were being overpaid and overpromoted and um, while still demanding three days a week from home. >> so is it just a culture? >> so is it just a culture? >> we need to decide what we think working from home? >> we need to decide what we thiniskiving working from home? >> we need to decide what we thiniskiving or rking from home? >> we need to decide what we thiniskiving or areg from home? >> we need to decide what we thiniskiving or are you�*m home? is it skiving or are you actually doing your job? is there over these there any control over these people? demanding this? >> well, i mean, that's the deal >> that's what we don't know. but there does but i would say that there does seem culture within the seem to be a culture within the civil service the workers civil service where the workers get they get what they want, when they want, they mean, had want, they want. i mean, we had this as i mentioned, the whistleblower saying whistleblower earlier, saying that that, you know, basically the what policies the staff decide what policies get blob what get approved, the blob and what don't know, we've had talk from the tories for about the tories for years about a bonfire of the quangos , and bonfire of the quangos, and they'll out the civil they'll sort out the civil service reform service there will be reform to

the service. never the civil service. never actually does actually happens does it. >> doesn't, which is >> no, it doesn't, which is which is testimony to the power of the civil servant. >> of course, you've got. >> but of course, you've got. >> but of course, you've got. >> yeah. exactly. >> yeah. well, exactly. it is what is the it's what actually is the state. it's what actually is the state. it's what state. and if you what runs the state. and if you decide you're going to go up against to have against it, you need to have a very, a strong plan. very, you know, a strong plan. you to be very you need to be very sort of vigorous and you need to not go to with your party every to war with your own party every couple of years, because actually, needs be actually, everybody needs to be singing from the same hymn sheet. something that sheet. this is something that does require fundamental root and across many and branch reform across many aspects of it. and the conservatives, as much as they've talked a good game , they've talked a good game, they've talked a good game, they've not been prepared for one the only person, one side. and the only person, the only person, the only person who with who actually came in with a semblance was dominic semblance of a plan was dominic cummings. worst cummings. and he was the worst possible person to try to implement plan because he implement that plan because he alienated absolutely well, it's the tells us that the sunday times tells us that he may be coming back the pm's in secret talks with him. >> that'll story that the >> that'll be the story that the trump and cummings, like . the trump and cummings, like. the duopoly in my life, that will be that will be what's getting the political class talking on their new eve. they'll new year's eve. they'll definitely extra drink definitely need an extra drink

tomorrow night. >> mean, i would say that we >> i mean, i would say that we don't is very don't know that that is very much the moment. it's the sunday times >> it's the sunday times speculation. >> so let's not get too excited. it's is quite serious. >> is quite because >> it is quite serious because when blob the when you have the blob or the civil allegedly blocking civil service allegedly blocking new ideas, new policies and saying , that's not the way we do saying, that's not the way we do things no, that's not the things here. no, that's not the way. know, you end with way. you know, you end up with with you up with with problems, you end up with any government. yeah. hey, they're meant to be impartial, but that does they're meant to be impartial, but up that does they're meant to be impartial, but up with that does they're meant to be impartial, but up with interesting does they're meant to be impartial, but up with interesting ideas they're meant to be impartial, bulevellingth interesting ideas they're meant to be impartial, bulevelling upnteresting ideas they're meant to be impartial, bulevelling up ideasting ideas they're meant to be impartial, bulevelling up ideas or; ideas or levelling up ideas or transport ideas or anything new, you have old hands. they're going , no, you have old hands. they're going, no, that's you have old hands. they're going , no, that's not way we going, no, that's not the way we do and it just gets do it here. and it just gets blocked . do it here. and it just gets blo unbelievable. okay, >> unbelievable. okay, well, we're going to move on because it's time to look at my panels. heroes and villains of 2023. emma, do you want to start with your hero? yeah >> king charles i'm not i'm not a monarchist particularly, but i think that he gave us one single moment in this country to be proud in this, in this proud of in this, in this depressing and defeated and broken . broken britain. >> and that's the coronation assembly. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> okay. not his king's speech on christmas. >> king's speech was good. cop 28 good. been

28 speech was good. i've been proud of pretty much proud of him and pretty much nothing this country. proud of him and pretty much not fair this country. proud of him and pretty much not fair enough this country. proud of him and pretty much not fair enough .1is country. proud of him and pretty much not fair enough . uh, ountry. proud of him and pretty much not fair enough . uh, shally. proud of him and pretty much not fair enough . uh, shall we >> fair enough. uh, shall we move on to yours, benedict? mine is javier milei, the new president of argentina. >> um, who i think is a phenomenal breath of fresh air. don't agree all don't necessarily agree with all of for man don't necessarily agree with all of stand for man don't necessarily agree with all of stand up for man don't necessarily agree with all of stand up on for man don't necessarily agree with all of stand up on stager man don't necessarily agree with all of stand up on stage in man to stand up on stage in argentina and praise margaret thatcher great leader to thatcher as a great leader to and convincingly, and win pretty convincingly, i think that's pretty heroic. >> also with a chainsaw. >> did he? did he did a very different my old different kind of, uh, my old man toolmaker approach man was a toolmaker approach than keir starmer a power than keir starmer had a power tool yes. but, you tool instead. yes. but, you know, he's he's he's he's headunes know, he's he's he's he's headlines with jokes like that. he follows through with his he he follows through with his claims about you know, deregulating, uh, the economy, about cutting different government ministries . about cutting different government ministries. he's not beenin government ministries. he's not been in power for very long, but he's getting on it. we like he's getting on with it. we like gumption kind of in gumption in this kind of in these kind of circles. that's what you want to see. action rather than 13 years of a government going. it would be great somebody yeah. great if somebody changed. yeah. twiddly twiddly that's what keir starmer twiddly twiddly that's what keir sta that guardian him >> that guardian referred to him as a far libertarian, as a far right libertarian, which an oxymoron to me. >> yeah, well, speaks >> yeah, well, that speaks for itself. >> yeah, well, that speaks for itseyeah . >> yeah. >> yeah. >> okay. matthew. >> okay. matthew.

>> mine is the 80s singer >> so mine is the 80s singer feargal sharkey, who's won plaudits this year for crusading against greedy against the greedy water companies who've been poisoning our tory our rivers and the tory environment secretaries who stood while do it. stood by while they do it. >> bless fergal . okay. >> okay. god bless fergal. okay. and let's run through the and let's let's run through the villains . villains. >> is villain elon musk for >> is emma villain elon musk for ruining what was quite a fun place called twitter , renaming place called twitter, renaming it x just making it a it x and just making it a complete nightmare. >> he's ruined it? >> now you think he's ruined it? >> now you think he's ruined it? >> how? >> how? >> how? >> how not fun anymore. >> how so? it's not fun anymore. >> how so? it's not fun anymore. >> get is bombarded with >> how so? it's not fun anymore. >> people is bombarded with >> how so? it's not fun anymore. >> people is bombarded with >> how so? it's not fun anymore. >> people i follow,arded with >> how so? it's not fun anymore. >> people i follow, theyi with ads. people i follow, they don't, i don't don't, people i follow, i don't see tweets because. see their tweets because. because there's an algorithm that these things. that arranges these things. >> you find everyone >> because you find everyone x is nightmare and it's become is a nightmare and it's become nastier and and nastier and more and more and more abusive and divisive and horrible. >> it's just not a fun place to go and hang out anymore . go and hang out anymore. >> okay. what do you think? >> okay. what do you think? >> don't what call >> and i don't know what to call it. can't say i x no one calls it. — it. can't say i x no one calls it. i posted it, i everyone calls twitter. calls it twitter. >> calls it twitter. >> i still calls it twitter. yeah, do i yeah, but what do i do? >> do i think about >> what do i think about twitter? no sorry. >> what do i think about twi your no sorry. >> what do i think about twi your villain, sorry. >> what do i think about twi your villain, my y. >> what do i think about twi your villain, my villain is >> your villain, my villain is yevgeny prigozhin. >> your villain, my villain is yevthey prigozhin. >> your villain, my villain is yevthe latejozhin. >> your villain, my villain is yevthe late yevgeny prigozhin, >> the late yevgeny prigozhin, the former head of the wagner group, because he is quite literally villain. mean, group, because he is quite litereat' villain. mean, group, because he is quite litereat him..lain. mean, group, because he is quite litereat him. that mean, group, because he is quite

litereat him. that is�*nean, group, because he is quite litereat him. that is every bond look at him. that is every bond villain sort of distilled, put into and then put into into a blender and then put into a you even his a mould and, you know, even his way was phenomenal. way of going out was phenomenal. you leading a against you know, leading a coup against vladimir putin. know, it vladimir putin. you know, it actually garnering actually almost garnering sympathy vladimir putin and sympathy for vladimir putin and then failing because that's what sympathy for vladimir putin and thevillains| because that's what sympathy for vladimir putin and thevillains do. :ause that's what sympathy for vladimir putin and thevillains do. and; that's what sympathy for vladimir putin and thevillains do. and then 's what all villains do. and then getting himself blown up in a plane, you've to all the way. >> if you're going do >> if you're going to do something. quickly something. i'm very quickly maths. just oil with >> mine's just stop oil with their crazy campaign of so—called direct action, which has backs of an and has put the backs up of an and destroyed support for the sensible cause. so bad tactic, sensible cause. so bad tactic, sensible cause. so bad tactic, sensible cause making it harder for those of us who want to combat climate change. >> okay, well, thank you all for that. if i have to choose, i think i'll go with you, matthew, with feargal sharkey , just with feargal sharkey, just because derry, but because he's from derry, but also the also because he was in the undertones, a great undertones, who were a great band, also his work band, uh, but also his work as well, campaigning. as well, his campaigning. and as for think for the villain, yes, i think just oil. absolutely just stop oil. absolutely there's a real problem with them, there? because they them, isn't there? because they do alienate the do tend to alienate the very people be trying to people that should be trying to persuade, they keep going persuade, and they keep going after which i after works of art, which i really okay really wish they wouldn't. okay well, for well, thanks ever so much for watching the show. really appreciate around appreciate it. do stick around

for headlining that's for headlining headliners that's coming the paper coming up next. that's the paper preview comedians that preview show with comedians that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . boilers sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hello there . welcome to your >> hello there. welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. i'm craig snell, looking ahead to new year's eve. for most of us we're going to end 2023 on a fairly scary note. and for some in south, it's still going fairly scary note. and for some in be south, it's still going fairly scary note. and for some in be pretty|, it's still going fairly scary note. and for some in be pretty blustery. going fairly scary note. and for some in be pretty blustery. so ing fairly scary note. and for some in be pretty blustery. so as| fairly scary note. and for some in be pretty blustery. so as we to be pretty blustery. so as we end saturday, we've still got this area of low pressure really dominating proceedings. this cold will to cold front will continue to spread way eastwards across spread its way eastwards across the fairly heavy the country, some fairly heavy rain on it and some strong and gusty winds. it will become quite across the quite slow moving across the very far north of scotland as we go course the go through the course of the night. then behind it a night. then behind it is a mixture of spells and mixture of clear spells and a scattering showers . mixture of clear spells and a scattering showers. in mixture of clear spells and a scattering showers . in the scattering of showers. in the clearer skies it will quite clearer skies it will turn quite chilly think of us chilly, but i think most of us frost away from scotland, frost free away from scotland, so into new year's eve any overnight rain will quickly clear the far east of england. and for many of us it's a

mixture of sunny spells and scattered showers. some of the showers , especially come the showers, especially come the afternoon, will be heavy and thundery, but the rain across the very far north of scotland , the very far north of scotland, especially for shetland, really just stay in there all day for many a slightly cooler day then today, but still not doing too badly for the time of year. looking ahead to new year's day . looking ahead to new year's day. for many northern areas it's a mixture of some bright spells, but scattering of showers once but a scattering of showers once again. further south, a much dner again. further south, a much drier and brighter day, a brief respite in the weather before unfortunately further rain comes in later on in the day and that sets us up for a fairly unsettled few days as we start 2024. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news .

good evening. >> i'm sophia wenzler in the gb news room. new year's travel plans for thousands of people may be back on course after eurostar announced all of its services will resume from tomorrow. the train operator says flooding in the tunnels under the river thames was brought under control . it under the river thames was brought under control. it added that there could still be delays though, due to speed restrictions. earlier, the company apologised after a tunnel flooded, apparently tunnel was flooded, apparently caused by a burst pipe connected to fire safety system, to the fire safety system, leaving trains to and from london . up to 35,000 london cancelled. up to 35,000 passengers have been affected, with many left stranded at london. saint pancras station and forecasters are warning people to take care ahead of new year celebrations. heavy rain and strong winds are expected in many parts of the country, with parts of scotland likely to see significant levels of snow. the met office says yellow alerts are in place until 3 am. tomorrow. a third man has died following a house fire in south

london.