the issue of the day and about the issue of the day and after that, it's a free for all likely to be more explosive than a the last sausage a debate over the last sausage roll at a greggs gateshead. roll at a greggs in gateshead. we're just here to talk we're not just here to talk amongst ourselves, though. we want send your want your input. send your thoughts your thoughts and probably your complaints to gbviews@gbnews.com. let's see if you can outdo our panellists in the opinion stakes. but you can outdo our panellists in the opinion stakes . but before the opinion stakes. but before we let the dogs out , it's over we let the dogs out, it's over to sam francis for your saturday night . news darren, thank you night. news darren, thank you very much. >> good evening. i'm sam francis in the gb news room. the headunes in the gb news room. the headlines at seven. well first to some breaking news. it's being reported that rishi sunak's new pensions minister is being investigated for breaching expenses rules. according to the times , paul maynard used more times, paul maynard used more than £100,000 of taxpayers money to promote the conservative party and his own re—election. the amount that appears to have been spent includes printing, stationery and on rent . the

stationery and on rent. the allegations came to light after allegations came to light after a local conservative activist raised concerns . the mp for raised concerns. the mp for blackpool north has denied any wrongdoing . flood hit households wrongdoing. flood hit households affected by storm hank are being offered thousands of pounds in government support . people in government support. people in eligible areas can apply for up to £500 to help with immediate costs, and there's also an offer of up to £5,000 in grants for some homes and businesses, 210 flood warnings are still in place across the country, with exceptionally high and in some cases record river levels. great western railway is urging passengers to check for cancellations as several lines are closed due to the floods . 16 are closed due to the floods. 16 year old boy has been remanded in custody charged with the murder of harry pitman, who was stabbed in london on new year's eve. the teenager died following what police say was an altercation as crowds gathered on primrose hill to watch the fireworks. the suspect, who cannot be named, has also been charged with possessing an offensive weapon. harry's sister

has paid tribute to saying has paid tribute to him, saying he heart of gold and he had a heart of gold and wouldn't be involved in violence . prince andrew had daily massages during weeks that he spent at jeffrey epstein's home in florida . that's according to in florida. that's according to the convicted paedophiles housekeeper, newly released court documents in the us include her testimony from 2009, which says both the prince and his then wife, sarah, the duchess of york, were friends with epstein and the now convicted convict sex trafficker ghislaine maxwell . the unsealed ghislaine maxwell. the unsealed files were part of a civil lawsuit against maxwell, files were part of a civil lawsuit against maxwell , who files were part of a civil lawsuit against maxwell, who is serving a 20 year prison sentence for recruiting underage girls for epstein. prince andrew strongly denies any wrongdoing . strongly denies any wrongdoing. well, here in the uk, rishi sunakis well, here in the uk, rishi sunak is facing a growing battle over his rwanda plan as his former immigration minister is threatening to vote it down unless changes are made. the bill has passed its second reading in the commons, but robert jenrick abstained from that vote , claiming it wouldn't that vote, claiming it wouldn't succeed its current form. it

succeed in its current form. it follows reports that the prime minister had doubts that minister also had doubts that the scheme wouldn't be able to send migrants to rwanda and wouldn't crossings. wouldn't stop channel crossings. that chancellor that was when he was chancellor mr proposed a smaller mr sunak also proposed a smaller initial volume, with 500 flown initial volume, with 500 flown in the first year of the scheme, instead of the initially proposed 1500. well meanwhile, the chancellor says that he's not sure if the government can afford to offer voters any more tax cuts before the next election. a 2% reduction in national insurance comes into force today, which jeremy hunt claims will benefit . 27 million claims will benefit. 27 million people and save the average family. with two earners nearly £1,000. this year, however, the government has frozen the income tax threshold , pushing many into tax threshold, pushing many into higher brackets , which offsets higher brackets, which offsets the of that national the benefit of that national insurance cut. the chancellor admits further cuts are unlikely i >> -- >> it was lam >> it was right to support families through covid and through the cost of living crisis. and yes, taxes had to go up in that period. but we are a

conservative government that wants to bring down taxes because we recognise that families are finding life really tough. it's the start of a process . as chancellor, if i can process. as chancellor, if i can afford to go further, i will. i don't yet know if i can, but we want to do this because it helps families and it also helps to grow the economy as well. >> we've been learning today that russia has used north korean ballistic missiles in ukraine for the first time. that's according to an independent weapons expert . the independent weapons expert. the united states has described it as a significant and concerning escalation in the cooperation between the two countries. dutch researcher joost olympians, who was among those to examine the debris, says russia is violating international law. russia should be adhering to the sanctions on nonh be adhering to the sanctions on north korea. >> uh , even more so when it's in >> uh, even more so when it's in the case of, uh, highly significant type of weapon system like, uh, this , uh, uh, system like, uh, this, uh, uh, short range ballistic missile systems that we're now seeing. so that's a really a very gross violation . uh, it's just that

violation. uh, it's just that there's no, uh , physical there's no, uh, physical mechanism in place to , uh, mechanism in place to, uh, prevent russia from importing, uh, clandestine only even, even very obviously , clandestinely very obviously, clandestinely importing , very obviously, clandestinely importing, uh, very obviously, clandestinely importing , uh, weapons systems importing, uh, weapons systems if they choose to do so . if they choose to do so. >> almost 700 afghans that were promised sanctuary here in the uk still haven't been relocated. two thirds of those who were eligible who supported british efforts during the war are yet to be resettled . that's more to be resettled. that's more than two years after the taliban's takeover. some 1500 are still stuck in third countries like iran and pakistan . the foreign secretary, david cameron , says plans, though, are cameron, says plans, though, are in place to bring those refugees to the uk. but that it's difficult to predict just how quickly people in afghanistan can be brought to safety . and can be brought to safety. and america's aviation agency has grounded more than 170 boeing 737 max nine aircraft after a window and part of the fuselage blew out of a plane in mid—air.

the alaskan airlines aircraft was forced to an emergency landing shortly after take off from the us state of oregon. on social media, footage here shows a large hole in the plane where the emergency exit had previously been. 177 people were on board, but luckily no one was hurt. an investigation has since been launched . this is gb news. been launched. this is gb news. we're across the uk on tv, on digital, radio and of course on our website gbnews.com . our website gbnews.com. >> it's saturday night and you're with the saturday five. i'm darren grimes and we're about to start 2024 with a bang. poor belinda deluise to my right here will be refereeing in a debate that promises to be rowdier than a hen night in blackpool. so let's crack on, shall we.7 with blackpool. so let's crack on, shall we? with the first debate. >> oh god help me. darren is going to kick us off. what have you got for us tonight, darren? >> belinda, you all >> well, belinda, i want you all at to imagine the gut at home to imagine the gut

wrenching loneliness of being told words . no one else is told these words. no one else is having this problem. that's the cruel echo that was in the ears of those trapped in the post office scandal. a scandal not just of words, but of life shattering consequences . there shattering consequences. there were forced suicides. there were bankruptcies. there was a pregnant mother put in jail. it's a real life horror show laid bare by itv's drama mr. bates versus the post office . bates versus the post office. and now the latest twist is that the post office are embroiled in the post office are embroiled in the horizon accountant scandal and now face criminal investigation for potential fraud. yet paula vennells , the fraud. yet paula vennells, the ex ceo , clutches on to her cbe ex ceo, clutches on to her cbe for unbelievably served , says to for unbelievably served, says to the post office server mrs. to the post office server mrs. to the post office for what the biggest stitch up since the biothum tapestry . nearly biothum tapestry. nearly a million people are clamouring for vennells to lose her cbe. it's a number that keeps climbing this petition. it's a

thunderous demand for justice. this isn't just a petition, this is a roar from the public. fed up with injustice. enter alan bates, the unsung hero of this dark tale, who actually turned down an obe in protest. his actions aren't just noble , actions aren't just noble, they're a stark, shining contrast to the murky depths of this scandal. bates isn't just a hero, if you ask me. he's a sort of chap. we desperately need more of within the political arena. let's cut to the chase here, though . vennells stint at here, though. vennells stint at the post office was a catastrophic cocktail of failed leadership, and frankly , moral leadership, and frankly, moral bankruptcy, which might strike you as odd given that she was a church of england priest for heaven's sake, if there's a flicker of integrity left in this woman , she'd hand back that this woman, she'd hand back that cbe . not tomorrow. now this cbe. not tomorrow. now this sorry saga will be forever etched in the annals of history for its unprecedented negligence and, frankly, its heartlessness .

and, frankly, its heartlessness. it's right . i and, frankly, its heartlessness. it's right. i mean, i don't know to where start on that. belinda, do you think actually. and i spoke to you slightly about this backstage that actually the losing holy orders, i think the church of england should say that she should never be able to practice as a priest in the church of england ever again. >> i think that's too harsh. i think actually, as part of the christian faith , forgiveness is christian faith, forgiveness is a huge, huge part of it. and i think if she apologises earnestly and profusely from her heart , then i think that's then heart, then i think that's then up to the victims to forgive her. i also feel like the one, uh, area that's not getting much attention is actually the it behind it all. it's fujitsu , i behind it all. it's fujitsu, i believe. um, they're not being held to account. they have absolutely caused all this trouble. well, if anything, they're getting more taxpayer money. >> they're getting more taxpayers money. >> they're getting more taxjandrs money. >> they're getting more taxjand what ney. >> they're getting more taxjand what lay. >> they're getting more taxjand what i think horrifies me >> and what i think horrifies me is that not only are they getting away with it, they should ones paying,

should be the ones paying, i think in compensation think millions in compensation to the victims because to all the victims because vennells did go to vennells has said she did go to them and again, saying, them again and again, saying, you know, there are these concerns being forward. concerns being putting forward. and assured after and she was assured time after time that there was absolutely nothing the system. nothing wrong with the system. i'm defending her, just i'm not defending her, i'm just playing here. playing devil's advocate here. um, the attention should be um, that the attention should be very much on them as well to provide huge amounts of compensation . the it has been compensation. the it has been a crime that's committed to these innocent people. i was reading a story about of the women story about one of the women being from her two being separated from her two children, being put in a drug infested prison cell and having to do three months of, i think it was a nine month sentence, completely innocent. the kind of mental health problems that can affect the rest of your affect you for the rest of your life, your reputation in tatters, the humiliation that these people been these innocent people have been put is crime, put through it is a crime, and someone pay. but i hope someone needs to pay. but i hope everyone equally who that everyone pays equally who that was, involved. was, that was involved. >> i benjamin, do you >> i mean, benjamin, do you think a problem this think we have a problem in this country with rewards for failure? and it's not just failure. know, this is failure. you know, this is negligence extreme. negligence in the extreme. >> mean, i think if she

>> yeah. i mean, i think if she had a moral compass, she would understand that even if, you know, or whatever , were know, fujitsu or whatever, were telling her at the time that these mistakes weren't borne out, understand and out, she would understand and that one of the ways in which these people who had their lives totally destroyed could feel like there is some justice would be her to give up this be for her to give up this honoun be for her to give up this honour. i actually although honour. but i actually although itv evidently a huge itv has evidently brought a huge amount to this, it amount of attention to this, it is notable that it wasn't just the woman who was ceo of the post office. there was also the ceo of the royal mail who was at the centre of stopping these people , getting the truth. and people, getting the truth. and he isn't in itv drama. why he isn't in the itv drama. why why? because he left to be ceo of itv . and if that doesn't tell of itv. and if that doesn't tell you that we have a culture of cover up and of rewarding failure in this country, that even the drama trying to highlight these decent people's fight covers up part of the story. i think that tells you all you need to know. >> alex. >> alex. >> yeah, i mean, i couldn't agree more with benjamin. it's shocking, isn't it? we keep

seeing these very self—righteous and very highly rewarded ceos . i and very highly rewarded ceos. i mean, to mind mean, natwest comes to mind immediately who quite frankly don't the public's best don't have the public's best interests at heart . they're interests at heart. they're earning millions and millions of pounds awarded high pounds being awarded high honours the british empire. honours of the british empire. and yet they go against everything that appeals to british values. we're talking about christianity here and quite frankly , she's showing no quite frankly, she's showing no remorse. i feel like the only time she's going to show any remorse is when she's forced to, which doesn't buy it very well for her, in my opinion. >> alby, do you think actually, there are questions and should >> alby, do you think actually, thequestionsestions and should >> alby, do you think actually, thequestionsesticpoliticians»uld >> alby, do you think actually, thequestionsesticpoliticians who >> alby, do you think actually, theqlin.tionsesticpoliticians who >> alby, do you think actually, theqlintionses at politicians who >> alby, do you think actually, theqlintionses at the :icians who >> alby, do you think actually, theqlintionses at the time? who were in power at the time? you know, the coalition government, the office minister was ed the post office minister was ed davey, was now sir ed davey davey, who was now sir ed davey and the liberal and leader of the liberal democrats. think actually and leader of the liberal demoneeds think actually and leader of the liberal demo needs to think actually and leader of the liberal demo needs to it's nk actually and leader of the liberal demo needs to it's notictually and leader of the liberal demo needs to it's not just lly there needs to be it's not just paula vennells do they need to be broader ramifications, as i think we've got to at think we've got to look at what's happened to the . post what's happened to the. post office and royal mail since 2010. >> there's been a pretty wild, wild panned failure of a privatisation which has gone on that implemented a lib

that was implemented by a lib dem coalition government dem tory coalition government trying save money in certain trying to save money in certain places. failed. places. it's totally failed. it's expensive to send it's really expensive to send post whole horizons scheme post this whole horizons scheme has blown up because they were looking cut corners and do looking to cut corners and do things more cheaply by implementing an it system, which failed. course do think failed. so of course i do think there that there are questions that politicians answer. there are questions that phaveians answer. there are questions that phave to s answer. there are questions that phave to say answer. there are questions that phave to say i answer. there are questions that phave to say i don'tnswer. there are questions that phave to say i don't really i have to say i don't really care about the honour i care about the criminal investigation, which is now ongoing, and that justice is served through criminal through sorry, the criminal sorry, through the criminal justice rather justice system, rather than something virtue something a bit virtue signalling, like getting rid of an honour. signalling, like getting rid of an honotl. signalling, like getting rid of an honotl agree yeah. >> yeah i agree yeah. >> yeah i agree yeah. >> benjamin, it does strike >> and benjamin, it does strike me that actually because you mentioned fact that it was mentioned the fact that it was an itv that sort of an itv drama that sort of brought it to nation's brought it to the nation's attention big way, attention in a really big way, because millions of people will have watched series. have watched that drama series. but actually a damning but is it actually a damning indictment on the media as well, that it's taken so long for it to get mainstream ? to get this mainstream? >> well, to be honest, i don't think that's true because, you know, i'd read about this for many years, particularly in the daily times. they many years, particularly in the dai|a times. they many years, particularly in the dai|a lot times. they many years, particularly in the dai|a lot on times. they many years, particularly in the dai|a lot on it. times. they many years, particularly in the dai|a lot on it. and times. they many years, particularly in the dai|a lot on it. and imes. they many years, particularly in the dai|a lot on it. and i suspectey did a lot on it. and i suspect if they hadn't picked up these

stories, then you would have never point. i just never got to this point. i just think there is sort of, you know, level of cynicism that know, a level of cynicism that people know, probably didn't people you know, probably didn't really believe the stories that were it was were being told until it was laid it has laid out as clearly as it has been this drama. but i'd also been in this drama. but i'd also point out the failure of the privatisation of the post office. know, had the office. you know, you had the controversy nigel farage controversy with nigel farage and entitlement to a bank account. no account. the reason you no longer entitlement longer have a legal entitlement to account is because to a bank account is because that was guaranteed by post that was guaranteed by the post office, but now that's privatised, so they don't have to it. so it's caused so many to do it. so it's caused so many problems, but worth saying horizon. >> implementing >> they started implementing that what, 1999. so you that from what, 1999. so you know, that's and fujitsu has 100 pubuc know, that's and fujitsu has 100 public contracts at the moment. >> w- w— e better own up >> yeah. so they better own up and exactly what's gone and explain exactly what's gone on and they don't they on here. and if they don't they should start losing contracts. all right. >> we're going more from alby. >> now alby what have you got for us this week? >> i'm going to be talking about our wayward prince. no, not prince andrew, prince harry. prince andrew, forget and meghan prince harry. prince andrew, forgjust and meghan prince harry. prince andrew, forgjust one and meghan prince harry. prince andrew, forgjust one week. and meghan prince harry. prince andrew, forgjust one week. because|han prince harry. prince andrew, forgjust one week. because this for just one week. because this week, there is another prince who been causing absolute who has been causing absolute mayhem the royal our

mayhem for the royal family. our wayward duke of this week wayward duke of york. this week in evidence , which unsealed in evidence, which was unsealed by a us court, is alleged by a woman known only as jane doe three to who who is saying she's had sexual relations with prince andrew in london in ghislaine maxwell flat , also in new york, maxwell flat, also in new york, and also in the us virgin islands. also further evidence has come out that prince andrew enjoyed daily massages whilst on jeffrey epstein's island . i say jeffrey epstein's island. i say enoughis jeffrey epstein's island. i say enough is enough . our wayward enough is enough. our wayward prince andrew has simply gone too far this time. now he might say that he's not done anything wrong, but it totally stinks to me. could you imagine an any other situation if there were allegations laid against you or me that we would be treated like this, treated like virginia roberts giuffre was just given a payoff of a multi—million pound payout back in 2022 to shut up and go away because no wrongdoing was done whatsoever , wrongdoing was done whatsoever, or that the metropolitan police wouldn't even look into the claims which had been laid against prince andrew back in

2021, when virginia roberts giuffre alleged that she was raped by the prince at ghislaine maxwell's flat in london. in the met police didn't even contact virginia roberts giuffre during that investigation session. or could you imagine a world where we weren't extradited for any crimes that were alleged that we committed abroad? it just wouldn't happen . it's one rule wouldn't happen. it's one rule for them, another rule for us, andifs for them, another rule for us, and it's got to stop here. the king i know this is the king's brother, prince charles. king charles's brother, prince andrew has gone too far this time. he's got to have his titles stripped. the duke of york title has got to go. he's got to stop his funding of his security. and he's got to stop appearing at royal events. once and for all. the met investigation has also got to be reopened into prince andrew, and we've got to get a conclusion to this because the damage that prince andrew has done to the reputation of the royal family and reputation royal family and the reputation of is too much, of this country, is too much, and we've got to clean up this mess for all. what do

mess once and for all. what do you make of this, belinda ? i you make of this, belinda? i know you are a strident royalist . when you read about what we have read about prince andrew. this week, what do you make of what's been said? >> i'm. i'm gutted for the royal family. obviously but look, the great ancient institution of our monarchy is much bigger than any of the individuals involved . and of the individuals involved. and in fact, historically, over centuries, we've had many a bad playboy, dodgy prince going right back through the years. we even had dirty bertie, edward the seventh, that's queen victoria's son, a bit of a womaniser. he had george the fourth, who was a drunkard and a gluttonous man . we had henry the gluttonous man. we had henry the eighth, who killed two, two of his wives, and charles the second, who has at least who had at least 12 illegitimate children. so it's not like we've had royal family since had a saintly royal family since time they've been time began. they've always been the bad apples. and actually today's royal family in comparison. you know, still isn't as bad as what we've had

in past. it'sjust isn't as bad as what we've had in past. it's just everyone in the past. it's just everyone knows everything and knows about everything now and they make happened they just make what's happened any absolutely any better. absolutely not. but what no, no, what i'm saying is no, no, no, what i'm saying is no, no, no, what saying is now our royal what i'm saying is now our royal family is so much bigger than prince andrew, andrew prince andrew, and prince andrew needs serve king and country, needs to serve king and country, and he needs to disappear from royal life . toot sweet. royal public life. toot sweet. it's a sacrifice. it may seem unfair because he has not actually been found guilty of anything yet, but the accusations, the reputational damage he has done to the monarchy is enough to i think, require him to take a step back and have some humility about it and have some humility about it and say, what's the best for the monarchy in its longevity? take us back, seat . he should be us back, seat. he should be doing that instead of trying to get back. >> and believe innocent get back. >> a provenlieve innocent get back. >> a proven guilty. innocent get back. >> a proven guilty. darren.1t until proven guilty. darren. but the didn't the met police didn't even contact roberts giuffre contact virginia roberts giuffre for the allegations that she made that she was made against him that she was raped ghislaine maxwell raped in ghislaine maxwell flat. i it's one thing to say i mean, it's one thing to say innocent until proven guilty. it's thing if you, like it's another thing if you, like me, think the investigation wasn't done properly. >> but i mean , i guess the >> yes, but i mean, i guess the question though, i'll

question would be, though, i'll be like, what evidence would there at point? like there be at this point? like what her word against his , um, what her word against his, um, and at that point, what did the metropolitan police do? you know, i think i think there's a real problem here with the fact that one that obviously in and of itself, rape is a bloody awful thing. and obviously should be investigated. but but when it comes to the other charges that are put against him , from all i can work out, it strikes me that a bit like steptoe and son, we have to say this is a dirty old man, you know, you dirty old man. >> and it's very good. darren and i just think we've got to be careful here that we. >> i think there is there are grounds to be the morality police and say, well , you know, police and say, well, you know, he's a filthy old perv or whatever, but i don't think you can go back and say, well, you know, or you ought to be in prison. you ought to be in the slammer. not if there's not any evidence criminality. evidence of criminality. but i think can benjamin think you can say, benjamin butterworth, that king charles was have prince andrew

was wrong to have prince andrew walking with him at sandringham over christmas like nothing was wrong, that this wrong, knowing that this evidence was being unsealed just a couple of weeks later. >> i mean, yes, but i think prince andrew is so arrogant and entitled and forceful that i doubt, you know , in a sense that doubt, you know, in a sense that there's much choice, you know, there's much choice, you know, the family occasion like that. that's not necessarily a public one. i dare say that he probably pushes himself into those positions . what the king needs positions. what the king needs to and it's worth noting to do, and it's worth noting that age that there's 12 years age difference between charles and andrew. so they're not that close. they didn't grow up together , really, together as children, really, because, charles because, you know, charles had left home by time andrew was left home by the time andrew was six. fact is that royal six. and the fact is that royal lodge , which he is, uh , lodge, which he is, uh, basically claiming squatter's rights to stay in, he needs to be kicked out of that straight away. he needs to pay for himself. he needs to go elsewhere . but also, you know, elsewhere. but also, you know, the claims, which, you know, again, that he denies everything. also says everything. it also says that sarah was a close sarah ferguson was a close friend epstein , even though friend of epstein, even though we know what kind of an

abhorrent person he is. we mentioned moment ago. she mentioned itv a moment ago. she is the darling of itv at the moment. sat there moment. she's sat there reviewing papers on this reviewing the papers on this morning. she's a panellist on loose becoming loose women. she is becoming this daytime luvvie and yet no one is asking her what do you know about this incredibly serious situation ? and now it's serious situation? and now it's alex. she was friends too. >> does this mean there's something crook something fundamentally crook kid about the british establishment ? itv the royal establishment? itv the royal family , the government? family, the government? >> no, i don't think you can blame the entire royal family on one man's actions. what i do think i mean, first of all, he's an absolute disgrace to the royal disgrace to royal family and a disgrace to this let's be clear this country. so let's be clear about that. i don't think he does any good for us whatsoever. and should chucked out of and he should be chucked out of the royal at earliest the royal family at the earliest opportunity. think this opportunity. i do think this makes case for a slimmed down, makes a case for a slimmed down, more royal family that more efficient royal family that can in in time where can operate in a in a time where the media is all over you, no matter where you are. you know, we've got prince harry and meghan off in california saying whatever want about the whatever they want about the royal family, but they're still

technically they technically royals, so they represent country represent this country in some form so strip form or another. so strip everyone. that's not a working royal or an immediate royal of those titles, and we will see a much more functional and popular royal family >> do think , though, that >> do you think, though, that just getting rid of titles of harry and meghan would stop the media interest in it? no, no, i don't think the or don't think that the prince or duke or duchess, no, i think the immediate think the immediate line, i think the immediate line, i think the immediate line, i think the immediate line underneath the king the, uh, or the future king or the, uh, or the future king, that that immediate line should be where draw the should be where we draw the royalty from all right. >> there are too many, too >> there are too many, way too many. outgoing queen >> the outgoing danish queen stripped grandkids of any stripped her grandkids of any titles. we should have titles. maybe we should have that. maybe. titles. maybe we should have tha right. be. titles. maybe we should have tha right. still come tonight. >> right. still to come tonight. alex is going to have alex armstrong is going to have his on khan's grip on his say on sadiq khan's grip on knife crime and actually the country at large. and belinda deluise going to give her deluise is going to give her take prisoners music take on prisoners making music behind . but first of all, behind bars. but first of all, how easy is it to buy a house? natwest boss sir howard davies says it's a piece of cake. we'll find benjamin butterworth find out if benjamin butterworth agrees. with the saturday agrees. you're with the saturday five live on gb news

horror at the 28 billion that they want to borrow for this net zero nonsense. welcome back to the saturday five, as always. cheers very much for your emails about tonight's topics. mark's written in and mark says i normally agree with much of what beunda normally agree with much of what belinda says , but she is so belinda says, but she is so wrong about vennells people went to prison, people lost everything. people their everything. people took their own things that own lives. there are things that can't be forgiven . um. now, can't be forgiven. um. now, chris says the question now is where has the money gone? who knows ? someone must know . there knows? someone must know. there are hundreds and thousands involved . and that is an involved. and that is an interesting question . now, interesting question. now, though, it's time for our next debate . it up next, it's debate. it up next, it's benjamin. benjamin. what have you got for us today? well, tonight i'm discussing the chairman of natwest. >> you remember the guy , the one >> you remember the guy, the one that defended alison rose dame

alison rose against nigel farage in the de—banking scandal. well sir howard davies is back in the news and back putting his foot in it. he was on the bbc radio four today programme the other day when he said that. it's really not that difficult to buy a house now. i was pretty shocked by that, given that i live in the real world and don't earn £750,000 for a retirement gig , as sir earn £750,000 for a retirement gig, as sir howard earn £750,000 for a retirement gig , as sir howard davies does gig, as sir howard davies does now. i've had run ins with howard davies before when i was an undergraduate at the london school of economics. i held a candlelit vigil for him as he left after he was sacked for taking £1.5 million from the gaddafi family. you'd think that would say something about his judgement howard judgement, but no. so howard davies great advantage in life is that he was born in the 1950s because when he was getting on the housing ladder, the average home in this country cost four times the average income. so if he had a wife at the time,

that's a pretty good deal. how much do you think it is today? well, in most of the country it's 8 or 9 times the average income for a house in a city like london, it's 12 times times the average salary. but to put that in context , it the average salary. but to put that in context, it is as difficult now for the average earner to buy a house as it was in the 1870s. that is how far back we've got. and yet you still hear people, old boomers , still hear people, old boomers, rich boomers like sir howard davies saying that if only you forfeited that netflix account or you didn't have that cheeky latte, then you'd be on the housing ladder. the truth is that our housing market is totally broken. we need to build millions more houses. people need to accept that their house price can't go up 300% as it has in the last 20 years, and i'm sorry, but if you're 80 and have a five bedroom home, you need to downsize. frankly if you don't, are not willing to do that . and are not willing to do that. and if howard davies doesn't understand that, then he

shouldn't be running a bank at . shouldn't be running a bank at. all now. belinda. oh my gosh, benjamin, you live in a very fancy house. what do you make of this? i think you need to stop this? i think you need to stop this relentless attack on old people who've worked hard their whole lives under the laws they were given. >> it's not their fault they were able to buy a house. it's just generational luck. and i tell you what. not every generation luck. >> a fix. >> it's a fix. »- >> it's a fix. >> not every generation has this kind of luck. in fact, most generations to to the generations have to adapt to the time they're i would time they're born in. i would not liked to have been an not have liked to have been an 18 year old in 1914 or 1939. that sucked for teenagers. >> been this bad since 1870. >> i'm just saying at young people, i'm really sorry. you are right. but it's time to adapt and you can still buy properties, just not the fancy pants london ones that you all want your first property. want as your first property. lower your is. >> should not have a job but >> you should not have a job but have a flat in milan. >> no, but there are so many >> no, no, but there are so many places around the country beautiful coastal places like scarborough . i actually was scarborough. i actually was would be very happy to live

there if it was the first house i could get on the property ladder and then redo it up, sell it on, make a little profit. you know can get three bedroom know you can get three bedroom house in shildon county house in shildon in county durham for £80,000. you can get a three bedroom house in scarborough for £100,000. scarborough for £100,000. scarborough stunning. scarborough is stunning. >> belinda, let me just just to give context to that give some context to that comment 5% of the country comment only 5% of the country has price of has an average house price of £100,000 so this a £100,000 or lower. so this is a tiny the world. and if tiny part of the world. and if everyone on london salaries decent london salaries that can't buy here were to buy in those places, the people that live scarborough wouldn't be live in scarborough wouldn't be able live in scarborough wouldn't be abl i'm not saying it's right or >> i'm not saying it's right or wrong, i'm saying that people need sucks, but people need to. it sucks, but people need to. it sucks, but people need start buying need to adapt and start buying property in cheaper areas. need to adapt and start buying pro do ty in cheaper areas. need to adapt and start buying pro do you cheaper areas. need to adapt and start buying pro do you know»er areas. need to adapt and start buying pro do you know whatzas. need to adapt and start buying pro do you know what as. need to adapt and start buying pro do you know what as well, >> do you know what as well, though, he's saying, you know, if everyone moved the if everyone moved up to the northeast, for example, the house prices would end up going up we shipped half the bloody up if we shipped half the bloody third world this country, third world to this country, the house up. and house prices would go up. and that's exactly he wants to happen. >> just to be clear, i'm never going a in the going to buy a home in the northeast because i don't want to be that close you. to be that close to you. >> well, you've got to stop

being obsessed with london. >> belinda. i think >> i agree with belinda. i think you a horrible vendetta you have a horrible vendetta against think you against old people. i think you actually callous bone actually have some callous bone in your body really, really in your body that really, really hates i find it, hates old people. and i find it, frankly, staggering and really concerning. >> trying shock them. >> he's trying to shock them. >> he's trying to shock them. >> a generation of >> we have a generation of people that their home people who think that their home going being 100,000 going from being worth 100,000 to was to £1 million, was an accomplishment. wasn't. accomplishment. it wasn't. it was luck. have to was luck. and you have to account the fact that when account for the fact that when you're getting those very expensive houses you have expensive houses and you have all that you can all that money that you can maybe it, that the maybe pass on it, is that the consequence of other people's politics of envy? >> yes. but you're >> yeah. well, yes. but you're not engaging with the point of it i will, i will. it is making i will, i will. there fewer mortgage there were fewer mortgage products 1979 when products right back in 1979 when these were taken out, these mortgages were taken out, that speak of. were that you speak of. there were obviously massive variations in salaries. they certainly even adjusted for inflation. they weren't on salaries that we enjoy today. >> but that's what i said in that point in the 70s. it was four the average salary. four times the average salary. today it's between 8 and 12 times. yeah. there you go. that is clearly no, no , no. a system is clearly no, no, no. a system thatis is clearly no, no, no. a system that is making it harder for

hard working people to get security. >> this country was a socialist basket case in the 70s. people weren't living in this land of milk. a house and able to well, they had a house, but they had to work for it. you make it sound like it just fell into their laps, that they saw interest . benjamin, you interest rates. benjamin, you talk about those interest rates were actually margaret were actually 17% when margaret thatcher over in 1979. thatcher took over in 1979. imagine taking out a mortgage with a 17% interest rate. you have a housing shortage of about 4 million because in you and benjamin , no notion of mass benjamin, no notion of mass migration . migration. >> don't say talk about your migrant, your migrant nonsense. okay, let's talk about what the problem is in this country. we have too much immigration. have had too much immigration. we've not built the infrastructure with infrastructure to keep up with it. we have a planning system, which means we don't get anything built that need in anything built that we need in this that's this country, whether that's railways, that's railways, whether or not that's housing. scourge of housing. we have the scourge of nimbyism, mostly propagated by boomers from boomers stopping anything from being built. so instead of having at benjamin having a go at benjamin for having a go at benjamin for having older having a vendetta against older people , why do we actually people, why do we actually engage with fundamental engage with the fundamental issues stopping us issues which are stopping us

building the infrastructure that we but the albee, albee, we need? but the albee, albee, you can't you can't ignore the fact that this country's population has gone up by millions. did i not mention immigration in my argument? >> is a absolutely >> but it is a absolutely massive factor we're massive factor when we're talking affordability and talking about affordability and cities. sadiq built cities. with sadiq khan built two april and june two homes between april and june last. not affordable last. not enough affordable homes. so we have got homes. and so we have got a problem with the planning system, but we also have a problem with politicians looking at termism do at the short termism we do always looking at their next election not actually election cycle and not actually caring people need caring about the people who need to who aren't going to buy houses who aren't going to buy houses who aren't going to them. the tories to vote for them. and the tories are pretty bad at this. are actually pretty bad at this. they're only worrying about building homes in areas to building homes in rural areas to suit voters. and suit their their voters. and actually, be actually, what we need to be doing is building a affordable homes people homes in cities so young people not prioritising for asylum not prioritising them for asylum seekers we need not prioritising them for asylum se�*be rs we need not prioritising them for asylum se�*be prioritising we need not prioritising them for asylum se�*be prioritising for we need not prioritising them for asylum se�*be prioritising for people�* need to be prioritising for people who in this country and as citizens. >> young people need to stop voting for parties that want to open our borders and support hyper immigration. they hyper mass immigration. if they want the housing want to get on the housing ladder not why we have >> that's not why we have a housing city. we've built half as many houses in the last 30

years as france has. we have not built enough. and we've also seen in people seen an explosion in people buying to buying a second home to be covered concrete. thank you. covered in concrete. thank you. benjamin, a house should not be your it should your pension. it should be somewhere people live. somewhere for people to live. and that's massive effect somewhere for people to live. an�*the at's massive effect somewhere for people to live. an�*the supply massive effect somewhere for people to live. an�*the supply and massive effect somewhere for people to live. an�*the supply and demand effect somewhere for people to live. an�*the supply and demand ofect somewhere for people to live. an�*the supply and demand of our on the supply and demand of our houses last 20 years. houses in the last 20 years. >> all right. hope he >> all right. let's hope he never gets anywhere near to power. still ahead tonight power. but still ahead tonight our soft crime alex our labour soft on crime alex armstrong is going give us armstrong is going to give us his but pensioners his verdict. but next pensioners are used in taxpayer cash to pensioners. even. pensioners. prisoners even. okay i'm stuck on benjamin i'm getting stuck on benjamin song now belinda deluise's going to us what she thinks about to tell us what she thinks about prisoners. and prisoners. not pensioners and hopefully us quick rap hopefully give us a quick rap herself. you're with the saturday five live on .

this. it's frightening how many kids carry knives . on mark dolan kids carry knives. on mark dolan tonight, in my opinion , tonight, in my opinion, footballer joey barton says there's no place for female commentators in the men's game. >> i'll be sharing my first on air views of a row which has gnpped

air views of a row which has gripped the beautiful game in my take a ten. it's game over for the playboy prince. it's time for king charles to give andrew his marching orders. plus a world renowned reader. world renowned mind reader. tomorrow's and the green tomorrow's papers and the green goddess herself. tv legend diana moran. we're live from nine. >> welcome back to the saturday five. it's time now for our next debate. up next, it's the beautiful belinda deluise. so belinda, what have you got for us? >> well, it was reported this week that prisoners in scotland were receiving free hip hop courses while in the clink, these eight week long courses are being gifted to these crims by, yes, yours truly. the taxpayer, in a bid to help prisoners with their self—esteem and to give these poor criminals and to give these poor criminals a voice or give me a break. pfison a voice or give me a break. prison isn't supposed to be a therapy retreat . it isn't therapy retreat. it isn't supposed to be nice . it's not supposed to be nice. it's not some holiday camp where one gets

to indulge in one's hobbies. it's main purpose must be to punish , protect the public and punish, protect the public and act as a deterrent. it must be a place that is feared that is so uncomfortable that violent criminals who have caused much harm and devastation to others , harm and devastation to others, never want to step foot in it again . and yes, this can go again. and yes, this can go alongside important rehabilitation schemes . but rehabilitation schemes. but please spare me this constant lib left desire to mollycoddle excuse and empathise with violent criminals because they've had a tough life . they've had a tough life. millions have had a tough life, have been through trauma, have struggled financially and don't choose to go and rob local shops, mug , kill or rape shops, mug, kill or rape someone. and what dimwit thought hip hop was an appropriate genre for crims to be immersing themselves in any way? it's literally the worst kind of music for criminals wanting to change their ways. lyrics glamorising guns, drugs, popping cops and gangsters. it's the opposite of rehabilitation. the best punishment and rehab combo for violent criminals is not to

throw more taxpayers money at frivolous courses, but to dress them up in orange boiler suits, chain their ankles together and let's see them in rows picking up litter, fixing our potholes, removing graffiti and saving the taxpayer loads of money while giving back to the community that they've held in a grip of fear and often helped to destroy. >> so i mean, well, said belinda. but if benjamin gets his way, he'll have the pensioners doing all you'll have all the pensioners chained up, won't you? >> doing all the graffiti removal. >> you know, i think a 19th century workhouse is missing. its matron based on that , my first. >> i take that as a compliment. >> i take that as a compliment. >> my first question is what's popping >> my first question is what's popping cops? >> oh, you know pop, pop it. you know is that your rap? know that. is that your rap? >> gonna rap like it's >> you're gonna rap like it's hard, you know, from snoop dogg. i think they're talking about poppingr i think they're talking about popping, you. i love popping, but thank you. i love hip but it really isn't hip hop, but it really isn't the best habilitation. hip hop, but it really isn't the best think habilitation. hip hop, but it really isn't the best think you ilitation. hip hop, but it really isn't the best think you are tion. hip hop, but it really isn't the best think you are so,|. hip hop, but it really isn't the best think you are so, so >> i think you are so, so mistaken. clearly prison should be a punishment. and the idea of being away in a small being locked away in a small room for 16 hours a day and not

being able to see your loved onesis being able to see your loved ones is obviously an incredible punishment. as people have punishment. as people that have been generally been to prison would generally tell the fact is that tell you. but the fact is that it is meant to rehabilitate them, so are capable of them, so they are capable of leading a normal, life on leading a normal, stable life on their two feet when they their own two feet when they come and watched come out and i watched a documentary recently , uh, which documentary recently, uh, which found think something found that i think something like a third of prison bars are illiterate, male prisoners are illiterate, male prisoners are illiterate . and so things like illiterate. and so things like rap can be a fantastic way for them to help develop their vocabulary, help develop their understanding of the english language. really engaging language. it's a really engaging way their skills, and way to develop their skills, and if don't all you if they don't do that, all you have a scenario where you've have is a scenario where you've locked them up rightly for something appalling. come something appalling. they come out later and they out four years later and they have skills to anything. have no skills to do anything. >> to much hip >> benjamin's listen to much hip hop they speak hop because they don't speak very those songs. what very well in those songs. what i'd this is, is very i'd say to this is, is very clear. there's got to be something to break up something in prison to break up the day. but biggest concern the day. but my biggest concern is lot of are is that a lot of people are leaving prison completely radicalised , massive. there's radicalised, massive. there's massive numbers of people leaving prison, converting to islam, becoming islam, and then becoming

extremely on the streets extremely radical on the streets . plenty . there's plenty of documentaries the documentaries on it for the audience to look out for there, so much rather see the so i'd much rather see the pfison so i'd much rather see the prison service young prison service educate young people, but also instilling british like british values and like you said, helping fill said, get them out. helping fill potholes the community, potholes back to the community, show communities that show the communities that they've they're they've damaged, that they're useful street. useful on the street. >> what a great idea, >> prison. what a great idea, alex. >> hopefully not free are they? they're be chained up . they're going to be chained up. >> and secondly, since when does hip hop. yes of course they're they're prison. they're in prison. >> it's off. >> you think they have of >> you think they have sort of something around their ankle like they should if they were to albee. >> what do >> albee. what do you think? do you hip courses, eight you think hip hop courses, eight week courses being paid for week long courses being paid for by the taxpayer lottery, by the taxpayer and lottery, national lottery funded is a good taxpayers money to good use of taxpayers money to help well, help rehabilitate? well, the first say is that first thing i would say is that everything that goes a everything that goes on in a prison is paid for by the taxpayer. >> so if your argument is that we shouldn't be spending taxpayer money on prisoners, then that was then i would say that was a stupid i agree with what stupid one. i agree with what alex armstrong actually said, that there's be something that there's got to be something to for these to break up the day for these prisoners. also with what prisoners. and also with what benjamin is that hip

benjamin said, which is that hip hop might not be an hop and rap, it might not be an art form that appreciate, art form that you appreciate, but art form that but it's an art form that millions the world millions across the world appreciate, it can be at appreciate, and it can be at times very poetic, very witty, very with language. and it very good with language. and it might a good way to these might be a good way to get these people disillusioned people who are disillusioned with literature with other forms of literature to enjoy to understand and enjoy literature. how is it going to get help them a job? get help them get a job? >> that's whole point. get help them get a job? >> well,; whole point. get help them get a job? >> well, if whole point. get help them get a job? >> well, if it'svhole point. get help them get a job? >> well, if it's going ooint. >> well, if it's going to increase their then increase their literacy, then that's help them get that's going to help them get a job, isn't it? they learn literacy and hip hop, have you not it's english not learning? well, it's english isn't the problem? isn't it? the problem? >> you're learning english. i mean, how much mean, i don't know how much you've to. you've listened to. >> you're deeply >> i think you're deeply condescending, you condescending, belinda. you think because you know that form of which basically of poetry, which it basically is, you and your is, is one that you and your fancy house as class, you've fancy house as a class, you've got you need. got a little you need. >> you really? >> do you really? >> do you really? >> do you mean jealousy? >> do you mean jealousy? >> down on these people, >> look down on these people, don't >> look down on these people, dori: >> look down on these people, dori totally look on >> i totally look down on rapists, murderers. >> i know the left don't. >> i know the left don't. >> and the left like murder them. >> rapist and murderers aren't going getting out anytime. going to be getting out anytime. >> really sorry, people, >> i'm really sorry, but people, these criminals destroy lives. people fear. they have people live in fear. they have their criminals. their lives ruined by criminals.

and excuse them time. >> they're going to come out of prison some point. prison at some point. >> aren't they society's fault? what a stupid, foolish, naive argument. >> not at all. you think that because something because they did something utterly puts them utterly appalling that puts them in they therefore in prison, that they therefore shouldn't ability shouldn't have the ability to build where they don't build a life where they don't repeat appalling. repeat that appalling. >> what your attitude >> listen to what your attitude would and more >> more murderers and more rapists streets. rapists on the streets. >> to what? >> to what? >> because they've got nothing else do. else to do. >> right, yappi, listen to >> all right, yappi, listen to what said. that they what i said. i said that they should be out there giving back to community, how should be out there giving back to build)mmunity, how should be out there giving back to build)mmurlearning how1ow should be out there giving back to build)mmurlearning how tor to build walls, learning how to fill that's work fill in potholes. that's work ethic that rebuild ethic for them that will rebuild them give the them and give back to the community. you're too soft on criminals there's criminals and that's why there's so them. criminals and that's why there's so we them. criminals and that's why there's so we need:hem. criminals and that's why there's so we need tom. criminals and that's why there's so we need to give back now to >> we need to give back now to our advertisers. so still to come. that issue come. sticking with that issue of country has real of crime, the country has a real problem crime. problem with knife crime. it's up last years. up 76% in the last ten years. after break,

news. welcome back to the saturday five. no murder took place dunng five. no murder took place during the break. you'll be happy to learn now. as always,

thank you very much for your emails about tonight's topics. we're going to get to some of those sack now those in a sack right now though. to out though. we're going to go out on a high with alex. what have you got alex. >> well a new epidemic >> well there's a new epidemic sweeping country . and i'm >> well there's a new epidemic swetalking country . and i'm >> well there's a new epidemic swetalking aboutntry . and i'm >> well there's a new epidemic swetalking about ary . and i'm >> well there's a new epidemic swetalking about a newrnd i'm >> well there's a new epidemic swetalking about a new covid i'm not talking about a new covid variant. i'm talking knife variant. i'm talking about knife crime 76% over ten years. crime up 76% over ten years. what a shocking number. there's an utter failure across this country to tackle one of the most serious issues. country to tackle one of the most serious issues . and just up most serious issues. and just up 19% in the last year alone. so what's what are what are mayors and local authorities doing about this? well, clearly, absolutely nothing. so in just the last few days, as we've seen, the terrible news about harry pitman in london, eight more stabbings have occurred , more stabbings have occurred, eight more stabbings. it's utterly horrendous. news and yet, whilst the fireworks blared on behind the mayor and he patted himself on the back for his extremely terrible mismanagement of this country, of this capital. well, he had nothing to say about it. all he said was that he's doing some

work on arresting people who are thieves with mobile, going around trying to steal mobile phones, it was pretty phones, and it was pretty appalling that labour across this have been this country have been completely soft on this issue. we'll get to the tories at the end, but let's talk about labour specifically, shall we? seven of the top ten worst places in britain for knife crime are labour run pcs and local authorities. just remember that in a few months time this country is going to sleepwalk into a labour government who are more than likely going to replicate this soft policy that has allowed criminals to run wild across the streets of our nation's great capitals and cities. now if we're looking at what to do next, well, you'd think sadiq khan would come out and say that there's a big, bold statement we can we can do something about this. we can fix it. but no, khan is out there

now ripping up parts of the corbyn manifesto and is planning to give free wi—fi to londoners. oh well, thank you so much, sadiq. while our cities crumble, lay our mayors, labour crime commissioners are doing nothing to tackle the issue and it's a real shame that this country is going to sleepwalk into a labour government. >> albie amankona some viewers would be saying no, but your lot have been in power for 14 years. well, if we look at the overall crime figures, actually the crime figures, actually the crime survey for england and wales has actually that wales has actually found that crime overall by 50% crime has fallen overall by 50% since 2010. >> but in labour run areas, alex is absolutely right to say knife crime has gone up and it's a problem which we need to get a grasp of. >> thing is, albie, is that >> the thing is, albie, is that this of a national this is also part of a national discussion. and course, discussion. and of course, labour worse. labour areas are worse. as i said, and a lot of said, and there's a lot of responsibility local responsibility on local authorities but authorities to address this. but the tories also responsible the tories are also responsible here, they've had here, aren't they? they've had 14 sort out knife crime. >> crime's down 50% since 2010. >> crime's down 50% since 2010. >> i mentioned. >> as i mentioned. >> as i mentioned. >> but crime knife >> but knife crime is knife crime 76% over ten years. >> and let's deal with the fact

the knife crime statistics are simply good and simply not good enough, and a lot it's to. okay lot more so it's to. okay crime is down, knife is down, but knife and i actually think i actually think we need more stop and search. actually think i actually think we fatal more stop and search. actually think i actually think we fatal stabbings and search. actually think i actually think we fatal stabbings are search. actually think i actually think we fatal stabbings are up.irch. actually think i actually think we fatal stabbings are up. abby. >> fatal stabbings are up. abby. >> fatal stabbings are up. abby. >> need more stop and search. >> fatal stabbings are up. abby. >> so, need more stop and search. >> fatal stabbings are up. abby. >> so, benjamin, stop and search. >> fatal stabbings are up. abby. >> so, benjamin, do»p and search. >> fatal stabbings are up. abby. >> so, benjamin, do yourd search. >> fatal stabbings are up. abby. >> so, benjamin, do you accept:h. >> so, benjamin, do you accept alex's premise saying alex's premise and saying basically people going basically more people are going to all are in to die once you all are in power? i think that's an ugly characterisation. >> look, the fact knife >> look, the fact that knife crime most common areas crime that the most common areas with crime is higher is with knife crime is higher is because in because labour tends to be in government cities, and those government in cities, and those are places where has are the places where that has always think the always happened. i think the fact sacking 20,000 police fact is, sacking 20,000 police officers theresa did, officers as theresa may did, didn't help. you have didn't help. but also you have to understand that a lot of this crime is within these communities. it's not that likely. you know, if we walk down the street in london, we're pretty unlikely to be a consequence of not consequence of this. not impossible, but unlikely. it's among postcode among communities and postcode wars. and think a lot of help wars. and i think a lot of help has be done those has to be done to get those teenagers of the rut of teenagers out of the rut of a life. that means they start carrying knife. carrying a knife. >> it's interesting, >> i mean, it's interesting, belinda, that sorry, alex, but it's that albee it's interesting that, uh, albee brought need for greater brought up a need for greater stop and search as someone that lives in london, i imagine

you're crying out for it as well. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> that's what worries me about a they're >> that's what worries me about a steeped they're >> that's what worries me about a steeped in they're >> that's what worries me about a steeped in identity they're >> that's what worries me about a steeped in identity politics,e so steeped in identity politics, things like stop and search won't be encouraged, won't be increased, and it really needs to. in fact, it's the mums in the community. if i was living in a community where children were killing children, i'd be begging for as much, stop and search as possible. and i just don't if climate labour search as possible. and i just don'create if climate labour search as possible. and i just don'create is climate labour search as possible. and i just don'create is one climate labour search as possible. and i just don'create is one thatate labour search as possible. and i just don'create is one that willabour will create is one that will encourage those kind of stop and searches to have two times more like government that cut, stop and search. >> not a labour. you also fan of the labour government expanded stop and search and a conservative it now. conservative cut it now. >> i think it's the most effective measure, but it was >> i think it's the most effetoriesneasure, but it was >> i think it's the most effetoriesneasldid but it was >> i think it's the most effetoriesneasldid that. was the tories that did that. >> do you really think keir starmer the man to solve the starmer is the man to solve the knife epidemic? knife crime epidemic? >> former >> yes, i do think the former director prosecutions, director of public prosecutions, well he wasn't understands. >> wasn't good >> well he wasn't very good at it a woman it was like better than a woman who minister and home who was prime minister and home secretary years. well, i secretary for six years. well, i think better saying think much better than saying you have it. you haven't got to have it. >> we're not going to be a nest of on that point. of singing birds on that point. but very much to our

but thank you very much to our non singing of birds for, non singing nest of birds for, for joining today. final for joining me today. one final email there. can email joanne says hi there. can you benjamin you please tell benjamin butterworth has butterworth that movember has long or would he a long gone, or would he like a matchbox keep his caterpillar matchbox to keep his caterpillar in? are. gosh. in? well, there we are. gosh. now it's the now next up, it's the brilliantly aukus with the saturday showdown. cheers brilliantly aukus with the satu much showdown. cheers brilliantly aukus with the satu much for showdown. cheers brilliantly aukus with the satu much for watching in. cheers brilliantly aukus with the satu much for watching and heers brilliantly aukus with the satu much for watching and we'll very much for watching and we'll see you again next week. yes we will. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. hello there! on. gb news. hello there! >> i'm greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news, weather. looking at the next 24 hours or so, it's going to remain cold for us to nice tonight. some fog patches again as well and then fairly dry and bright through sunday. it's itself. and that's because high pressure is going to dominate into next week. it starts to draw in colder air from east and we're all from the east and we're all noficed from the east and we're all noticed that. but for this evening and overnight it generally still a westie split across the country. clear skies across the country. clear skies across scotland, northern ireland, parts wales and the ireland, parts of wales and the south—west some fog

south—west some frost, fog and ice forming here, icy stretches elsewhere as well, temperatures hovering close to freezing, falling well below freezing in the glens of scotland down to around minus 7 or 8, possibly a little lower in 1 or 2 spots, but it means a sunny start here. any fog patches will be slow to clear across the north—west of the uk, but they will eventually lift and break to allow sunny spells elsewhere generally spells and elsewhere generally dry spells . scattered dry with sunny spells. scattered showers on a showers though on a brisk northeast breeze across southeast england and some feeding in off the north for feeding in off the north sea for northern england and northern england too, and temperatures on the cold side generally 5 celsius. add on generally 3 to 5 celsius. add on the strength of that wind. it will feel colder than the numbers suggest . near freezing numbers suggest. near freezing and start monday and another icy start monday morning. plenty of dry weather, a brisk easterly wind developing across england and wales in particular. it could blow in a few wintry showers, but most places dry and bright and it stays largely dry through tuesday and into wednesday as well. and staying on the cold side, it looks like things are heating up. >> box spoilers, sponsors of

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>> hi there. coming up on the saturday night show down martin luther king said we should judge people in the content of their character, not the colour of their skin. so why are hr departments discriminating against men? a white man against white men? a white man has won a half £1 million compensation after being unfairly dismissed by lloyds bank. does this case show that diversity , equity and inclusion diversity, equity and inclusion has got to go? and joey barton has got to go? and joey barton has made an early start on his campaign to be sports personality of the year for 2024. we'll tell you how he's getting on and if you fancy a cbe for a post office boss, paula vennells shows you how you can get one. simply be in charge of an organisation that commits

one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in british history. the post office horizon scandal gets my stamp of disapproval . gets my stamp of disapproval. this is your saturday night showdown discussing all tonight's topics, my brilliant panel joining me tonight are diane spencer, andrew eborn and frances foster. but first, let's get your latest news headlines from sam . good evening. >> i'm sam francis in the gb newsroom. the headlines at eight flood hit households affected by storm henke are being offered thousands of pounds in government support . people in government support. people in eligible areas can apply for up

to £500 to help with immediate costs , and there's also an offer costs, and there's also an offer of up to £5,000 in grants for some homes and businesses. rs 210 flood warnings remain in place across england, with exceptionally high and in some cases record river levels. great western railway is urging passengers to check for cancellations as several lines are closed due to flooding . are closed due to flooding. newly released court documents suggest. prince andrew had daily massages during weeks that he spent at jeffrey epstein's home in florida. testimony from epstein's housekeeper says that both the prince and his then wife, sarah, duchess of york, were friends with the convicted paedophile and ghislaine maxwell. the unsealed files were part of a civil lawsuit against maxwell, who is serving a 20 year prison sentence for recruiting underage girls for epstein. prince andrew strongly denies any wrongdoing . here in denies any wrongdoing. here in the uk, it's being reported that rishi sunak's new pensions minister is being investigated for breaching expenses rules,

according to the times, paul maynard