through it all and to ask us through it all and to ask what we can expect from the new year i've a jam year ahead. i've got a jam packed for you as packed show for you as ever, full great guests. i'm going full of great guests. i'm going to be joined by secretary to be joined by chief secretary to be joined by chief secretary to the treasury laura trott. it's another tough week for to the treasury laura trott. it's government r tough week for to the treasury laura trott. it's government with gh week for to the treasury laura trott. it's government with another for to the treasury laura trott. it's government with another tory the government with another tory mp, skidmore , resigning. mp, chris skidmore, resigning. what make of it all.7 what does she make of it all.7 we'll what does she make of it all? we'll also get the labour view from bridget phillipson. she's the vying to become the the woman vying to become the next education secretary. i'll be grilling two tory backbenchers on different wings of party. the right winger of the party. the right winger liam fox, and chair of the one nafion liam fox, and chair of the one nation group tory mps , damian nation group of tory mps, damian green. do they make of the green. what do they make of the mounting threat from the reform party prospect of party and the prospect of a resurgent nigel farage? as resurgent nigel farage? and as we kick off 2024, we'll get some analysis of all the latest polling from matt goodwin. let's get the show started, as even let's get the show started, as ever, with the papers. john sergeant, the former bbc and itn political correspondent, joins

me this morning. john, lovely to see you. thank you for your company. let's have a look at the newspapers which are dominated one story. dominated really by one story. and office and that's this post office scandal. it interesting , scandal. i find it interesting, john, that we've known about this having affected subpostmasters across the country for years and yet it's this itv documentary , mr bates this itv documentary, mr bates versus the post office that's brought this all to light. let's have a look at some of the stories the sunday times has got a huge spread lost in the post. um, the sunday express is talking about more post office victims emerged 70 more since the documentary has gone out. and then we've had jeremy hunt, the chancellor, in the week, saying that he's going to get the compensation for victims moving. clearly all hands on moving. so clearly all hands on deck. moving. so clearly all hands on deck . one interesting aspect of deck. one interesting aspect of this scandal that, um, has shone out to me this morning in some of the coverage is the role of the liberal democrats, of all people, because, of course, liberal democrat leader ed davey was in charge of postal services for the coalition government dunng for the coalition government during the period that this

honzon during the period that this horizon problem occurred. so is he now in dicey water? john, what do you think? >> well, i think he'll come up time and time again. the role that he played, because not only was he the minister directly responsible , but alan bates , who responsible, but alan bates, who we see in the in the programme being played by toby jones. right wrote to him the moment he was appointed satellite of a meeting and ed davey replied i didn't think he didn't think that would be useful. >> yes . >> yes. >> yes. >> and so alan bates then thought, how disappointing . and thought, how disappointing. and then for then , on the next five then for then, on the next five years, years of coalition you've got not just ed davey there, but you've got the two other ministers , vince cable, sir ministers, vince cable, sir vince cable and jo swinson. yes who are responsible for post office oversight. yeah. so it's not sort of. oh, it's a bit of argy bargy. these people were really were responsible . really were responsible. >> that's three liberal democrat

leaders at the end of the day. and also mr bates says in his reply to ed davey that he actually found the dismissive way that he was dealt with offensive, offensive. and editor davies trying to say davies basically trying to say this is not a government matter, it's post office matter. but it's a post office matter. but hang if the hang on a minute. if the government vicariously government can't vicariously take responsibility and obviously it must obviously it's conceded it must because jeremy hunt because we've got jeremy hunt talking , then talking about compensation, then what earth was it? i mean , what on earth was it? i mean, could politically could this be politically damaging davey ? on one damaging to ed davey? on one hand, not got that much of hand, he's not got that much of a recognition factor, and we'll get on to that, because that may be why reform doing well be why reform is doing well against lib dems. but on the against the lib dems. but on the other hand, he's now splashed all the newspapers all over the newspapers and people be thinking people are going to be thinking about wrong context people are going to be thinking abc him wrong context people are going to be thinking abc him politically, 'rong context people are going to be thinking abc him politically, saying,ntext for him politically, saying, as long as you're with me, well, of course was to with him. course it was to do with him. >> and as you say, once the government admit they've got to pay government admit they've got to pay and that's now pay compensation and that's now completely no completely agreed, there's no there's no argued about it anymore. well, davis anymore. well, then ed davis position completely crumbles. yes when he says, oh, well, we were trying to keep the post office at arm's length. yeah.

because they were trying to commercialise post office commercialise the post office and give the impression that and not give the impression that the government there all the the government win there all the time. even it time. yeah, but even so, when it came to it , of time. yeah, but even so, when it came to it, of course the government responsible also , government are responsible also, i the headline on the i love the headline on the sunday times. >> they've to bates >> they've spoken to mr bates and basically says, you and mr bates basically says, you know, i was asking for 36 grand. this scandal has ended up costing 2 billion, potentially . costing 2 billion, potentially. so actually, in the scheme of things, why on earth weren't these subpostmaster treated with a more respect ? of course, a lot more respect? of course, we must that of we must remember that one of them their own life over them took their own life over this scandal. i think the public is enraged by it. and 600,000 people, have now signed a people, john, have now signed a petition calling on the government to strip paula vennells , who was the former vennells, who was the former post ceo of her cbe. do post office ceo of her cbe. do you support that ? you support that? >> think there's >> well, i think there's a strong case for that strong strong case for that very strong case. they it sometimes and case. they do it sometimes and the that, oh, nobody the feeling that, oh, nobody gets blamed. they all sort of wander off. yeah um, i think really upsets people . definitely. >> and also kind of reward for failure in this idea that she's got the cbe, she's now clear of

the scandal. meanwhile we've got people who've worked for the post for years still post office for years still putting lives back putting their lives back together. hugely out together. people are hugely out of and this woman of pocket. and here's this woman sort in the glory sort of basking in the glory of an honour. >> agree, and of the >> i agree, and one of the columnists is saying, >> i agree, and one of the columnists is saying , well, >> i agree, and one of the columnists is saying, well, this will to people how cynical will prove to people how cynical the whole thing is. but that's a bit of an obscure argument. people want, they want, they want someone to be held responsible and if not, the ceo of the post office at the time, then who else? >> let's move to on sunak. he's given an interview in the sunday telegraph. look, not said telegraph. look, he's not said that much, john. talked that much, john. he's talked about uh, reform about how a vote for, uh, reform is a vote for starmer. he's is just a vote for starmer. he's sort of suggesting he wants to kerb taxes , is kerb benefits and cut taxes, is obviously not committing to any policies in the forthcoming budget . in policies in the forthcoming budget. in march, uh, there's been talk of them scrapping iht inheritance tax. let's wait and see. um you've got an interesting theory on this suggestion that he's going to hold the election in the second half of this year. you think he'd better to go to the he'd be better to go to the polls in spring? >> well, sad thing for him

>> well, the sad thing for him is this is virtually an is that this is virtually an admission that couldn't win admission that he couldn't win in the spring. so this is quite a big moment. so although you can say, oh, well, he's just saying it's at the moment he's thinking of the second of thinking of the second half of the but he's saying the year, but he's saying something more than that. he's saying, look, there are lots of things would by an things which would benefit by an early election getting across the immigration problem . i'm the immigration problem. i'm getting across by elections, all sorts of other things that have come up. um, migration in coming across the channel in the summer. yeah >> going to leave a whole >> he's going to leave a whole summer for more people coming over mean, you could over on boats. i mean, you could argue that if they came up with argue that if they came up with a really punchy budget in march and captured imagination, i and captured the imagination, i don't slashing income tax, don't know, slashing income tax, even that suggestion even with that coming suggestion of raising the threshold from 52,000 to 100,000. just imagine , 52,000 to 100,000. just imagine, john, and scrapping iht , they john, and scrapping iht, they might actually get things back on track . but how radical do you on track. but how radical do you think is willing to be? think sunak is willing to be? >> but made it quite >> well, but he's made it quite clear the moment he's clear at the moment he's thinking no. well that is that is a white flag being put up and

it's not the time for overcaution. >> he's got nothing to lose . >> he's got nothing to lose. >> he's got nothing to lose. >> he's got nothing to lose. >> he's we've now got a working assumption in he does not assumption in that he does not think win another think he could win another election, which is quite, a quite a moment, quite an admission. >> let's talk about flooding >> let's talk about the flooding farrago. are watching farrago. um, people are watching this fact, will be affected farrago. um, people are watching thi these ct, will be affected farrago. um, people are watching thi these floods. be affected farrago. um, people are watching thi these floods. they've ted farrago. um, people are watching thi these floods. they've taken by these floods. they've taken hold particularly of hold particularly in areas of gloucestershire and beyond . um, gloucestershire and beyond. um, but from a report but we understand from a report in the mail on sunday that the environment agency that's been very criticised for kind of promoting rewilding and refusing to dredge rivers, has been sitting . on £300 million that sitting. on £300 million that was earmarked for flood defences . does the ea have questions to answer? whenever i do a story on flooding, there's always intense criticism of the environment agency's handling of this situation . situation. >> it is just shocking. i mean, they took a gamble that there wouldn't be floods . what at a wouldn't be floods. what at a time like at this time of year? yeah. hold on. >> but how? they don't have a crystal ball. what are they thinking? >> what are they thinking? and even if they could maybe just

halve that but 300 million. so as the mail says, the people in nottinghamshire are furious and rightly so, particularly people swishing about in their kitchens , the wellington boots on, thinking our lives will never be the same again . the same again. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> i mean, and actually you just think the environment agency should be doing its job. john. sergeant, thank very much sergeant, thank you very much indeed joining me this indeed for joining me this morning. see you. indeed for joining me this mornidon't see you. indeed for joining me this mornidon't go see you. indeed for joining me this mornidon't go anywhereou. indeed for joining me this mornidon't go anywhere because well, don't go anywhere because we're getting the we're going to be getting the view from the right of the tory party mp liam fox in party and from mp liam fox in just a moment. he's also a former defence secretary. so we'll be covering issues like the in middle east the situation in the middle east and ukraine as well. of and in ukraine as well. of course, all that come course, all that still to come right after the weather, a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors on . gb news. sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> good morning . sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> good morning. i'm greg dewhurst i'm welcome to your latest gb news weather. it's cold start this morning across the country. some frost fog and icy stretches in places but it

will be largely dry. plenty of sunny spells as we go through the day . we will have this area the day. we will have this area of cloud though, bringing some showers in across northeast england and snow england could be sleet and snow over the higher ground here, and also some wintry showers affecting through the day, affecting kent through the day, but should ease as we move but they should ease as we move through the afternoon. but through into the afternoon. but for sunshine , for many, plenty of sunshine, few fog patches perhaps lingering southern scotland, northern ireland but mostly clearing and temperatures on the cold side. 2 to 5 celsius for many, perhaps 6 or 7 around a few coastal stretches and then as we move into the evening time, temperatures fall away quickly. we'll see. well below freezing across northern and western areas, thicker clouds still moving in from the north sea, affecting parts of northern england, stretching into england, perhaps stretching into wales, the midlands and south—east england . at times, south—east england. at times, 1 or wintry showers possible or 2 wintry showers possible from this icy stretches developing widely again due to the wet ground as temperatures fall close to or below freezing. some fog patches once more to take us into monday morning. another cold start , a widespread another cold start, a widespread frost and then through the day,

largely plenty of sunny largely dry. plenty of sunny spells developing once mist and fog patches clear. a few wintry showers possible in the easterly breeze, which does pick up as the goes on, turning quite the day goes on, turning quite brisk quite cold. brisk so feeling quite cold. temperatures are generally below average 4 or celsius, but average 4 or 5 celsius, but feeling nearer to freezing. see you soon! >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news . welcome back weather on gb news. welcome back to the camilla tominey show. >> lovely to have your company this sunday morning. now joining me the studio is doctor me in the studio is doctor saleem fox, conservative mp for nonh saleem fox, conservative mp for north somerset, former defence secretary conservative party secretary and conservative party chairman. i say doctor sir liam fox, because you were knighted very recently, weren't you? yes, indeed. >> new year's honours list. >> new year's honours list. >> happy that. >> very happy about that. i would imagine. >> of course. it's nice . um, but >> of course. it's nice. um, but i like to think it's particularly because the, the particularly because of the, the work with down work i was doing with down syndrome the role that syndrome and the role that i took through and the and the charity time i run charity give us time that i run that uh, holidays to that gives, uh, holidays to service families. um, so i like

to think it's not just for me, it's for them. no good, good stuff. >> well, huge congratulations . >> well, huge congratulations. let's into tory let's get stuck into tory politics now, because obviously it's be a seminal it's going to be a seminal year for conservative party. for the conservative party. chris skidmore announcing his resignation. um, it seems to me that he's handed a pass to labour on this. he was the energy minister, the government has said that actually it wants to renew more oil and gas licences into the future because there's an acceptance that we still have a reliance on fossil fuels, despite the approach to net zero. and yet at the same time, he said, well, no, sorry, this isn't good enough me this isn't good enough for me and to be siding with and it seems to be siding with keir starmer this issue keir starmer about this issue and once again is and therefore, once again is undermined. the prime minister, we've got three by elections still come. your still to come. what's your reaction to that? >> well, first all, i think >> well, first of all, i think he's wrong on substance and energy security for country energy security for the country is ensuring that we've got is about ensuring that we've got sufficient in the sufficient variety in the sources of our energy. we're going to have to use oil and gas for a long time, even if we decarbonise our economy. yes.

um, and it therefore makes sense to have security of supply, not be dependent on someone else to supply it to us, but to have it for ourselves. i think that is good governance. i think the prime minister is right on that. then! prime minister is right on that. then i think there's the second issue. is being issue. if your seat is being abolished the boundary abolished in the boundary changes, skidmore is changes, which chris skidmore is and you cause an unnecessary by—election then not only by—election then it's not only costing taxpayers money, it's a slap in the to face your own party workers who've loyally tried you elected over tried to get you elected over the years to your parliamentary colleagues and the party. colleagues and the wider party. and think self—indulgent, and i think it's self—indulgent, and ifs and i think it's self—indulgent, and it's disloyal. and i think it's disloyal. >> okay. fair enough . i think >> okay. fair enough. i think chris skidmore obviously isn't here to defend himself. at here to defend himself. but at the time, there is this the same time, there is this question what next for question of what comes next for rishi do you think, rishi sunak. how do you think, as a former party chairman, this election is going to pan out? what's reaction, first of what's your reaction, first of all, that we all, to the announcement that we should autumn rather should have an autumn rather than a spring election. you might sargeant might have caught jon sargeant there, a seasoned pro there, who was a seasoned pro professional it comes professional when it comes to watching matters. he's watching such matters. and he's making point. why not in making the point. why not go in the spring, really strong

the spring, have a really strong budget march, take the budget in march, take the country early, show country to the polls early, show confidence in your own policies rather leaving the summer rather than leaving the summer to happen more . no doubt, small to happen more. no doubt, small boats arrivals across the channel that could destabilise the conservatives position when it comes to the autumn. >> well, of course , all the >> well, of course, all the opfions >> well, of course, all the options remain open to a prime minister especially that minister uh, especially now that we the five year we got rid of the five year parliament act. but of course, you need to look the other you need to look at the other way if inflation way as well. if inflation continues people feel continues to fall, people feel more their pockets. more money in their pockets. they've cut with they've just had a tax cut with the in national insurance the cut in national insurance this week, will begin to this week, people will begin to feel and it's all feel better off. and it's all often about expectations in an election. the government needs to its story to start to tell its story better. however, yes . um, so if better. however, yes. um, so if you back this government you think back this government began back um, with began way back in 2010, um, with the chief secretary, the outgoing labour chief secretary, saying there's no money left. and indeed the government deficit was at 11. then which was a record high in peacetime . was a record high in peacetime. we got that down to 2, under 2% by 2019, which was just as well, because the pandemic hit us, because the pandemic hit us, because we'd had fixed those

pubuc because we'd had fixed those public finances, we were able to spend 400 billion on the pandemic. rishi sunak was able to launch his furlough scheme, which protected 11.7 million jobs. had we not done that, we wouldn't have our economy growing faster, been thanked for furlough, though, has he? >> i mean, the conservatives never get thanked giving never get thanked for giving people this the people money. this is the trouble. and he's already, trouble. and so he's already, you know, the conservatives you'll still have this narrative of years of rule 14. now of 13 years of tory rule 14. now we can say because in we can say because we're in 2024. liam and at the end of the day, you've got reform. um, and the prospect of a nigel farage resurgence threatening resurgence really threatening the party isn't it? simply because rishi sunak and his cabinet are too wet? they're more left wing than you are. the conservatives just aren't conservatives just aren't conservative enough. and that's why reform are coming in. >> no, i think i think to finish what i was saying, i think it's partly that we're not telling this story as a, as a, as a whole narrative. if we hadn't, if we hadn't had the furlough, if we hadn't had the furlough, if kept the economy if we hadn't kept the economy afloat, wouldn't growing afloat, we wouldn't be growing faster germany. faster than france or germany. after pandemic. that after the pandemic. that wouldn't us to

wouldn't have allowed us to spend 78 billion. after the russian of ukraine, russian invasion of ukraine, when prices went up. and sometimes think that , um, sometimes i think that, um, politicians, especially when a party been for party has been in office for a while, they forget that they have tell a whole story. it's have to tell a whole story. it's not delivery . that's not just about delivery. that's what ocado does. it's about the vision have for the country . vision we have for the country. we believe in a in a smaller state, we believe in lower tax. we believe that we should give people greater freedom to make . people greater freedom to make. >> you can only tell that story. you can only tell the story of sort of thatcherite polity that you believe in lower tax and spend, that you believe in enabung spend, that you believe in enabling to enabling businesses to be deregulated and have freedom to succeed and employ more people. if actually doing it. the if you're actually doing it. the perception the conservative perception of the conservative government right now they're government right now is they're doing opposite of doing the opposite of what thatcher did. well, actually , thatcher did. well, actually, high high spend . high tax, we're high spend. businesses are being tied up in unnecessary bureaucratic knots . unnecessary bureaucratic knots. i mean, would you start a business in the uk today, liam. >> yes, as lots of businesses do start start ups with start ups start ups with corporation tax, 6% higher than it was start don't stop it was start ups don't stop businesses up. don't

businesses starting up. don't pay businesses starting up. don't pay corporation tax. um, mrs. thatcher wasn't faced with a global pandemic , but she was global pandemic, but she was faced. >> she's faced with a winter of discontent in the 70s. >> well , that was before she >> well, that was before she came to office. >> i know, she the >> i know, so she the foundations weren't great and she grew the economy. >> so because remember , we took >> so because remember, we took that government deficit down from that phenomenal number that labour left behind, which they would again, back would do again, back down to only that enabled us to be only 2. that enabled us to be able to spend the money on the pandemic. we hadn't had pandemic. now, if we hadn't had the we'd have been in the pandemic, we'd have been in a great position. yeah to reduce taxes. that all taxes. i appreciate that and all of and it's because of that. and it's only because of that. and it's only because of success in controlling of our success in controlling pubuc of our success in controlling public finances and rebalancing of our success in controlling publi

osborne hadn't, as chancellor got those, uh, public finances back in balance. >> but what would you like to see in the budget in march? because there's been talk about scrapping iht. would you support that? >> i would rather see that we got our thresholds back under control, and took people out control, and we took people out of i think that if your of tax. and i think that if your message that people have had message is that people have had to because we faced to pay more tax because we faced the and, the the pandemic and, and the consequences of putin's invasion of ukraine and people understood that we had to get our balance back after that. if the message was that ordinary people to was that ordinary people have to pay get was that ordinary people have to pay get us over that pay more tax to get us over that hump, once we're past it, hump, then once we're past it, our priorities got to be to get that tax back down again. not not iht, which is an inheritance tax , doesn't affect that very tax, doesn't affect that very many tax, doesn't affect that very ma and so when you talk about >> and so when you talk about the thresholds, are you worried about people about this fiscal drag of people into top rate now £52,000. into the top rate now £52,000. we even that sunak we even heard that rishi sunak had um , dominic had met with, um, dominic cummings. cummings had suggested raising that threshold from 52,000 is that the 52,000 to 100,000. is that the kind of radical move that the chancellor is going to have to come up with? well we should do

what we can to get taxes down. >> um, but our public >> um, but not put our public finances at risk again. and we've made a lot of progress. um, had this terrible problem um, we had this terrible problem with the public finances during the pandemic. we've got past that now. we need to do what conservatives well, which is conservatives do. well, which is sound sensible, predictable sound and sensible, predictable economic management so that people and businesses can plan for the future with much less uncertainty than they've had. >> how worried are you about the threat reform currently threat from reform currently polling about 10% in some polling at about 10% in some polls, polling above the liberal democrats? polls, polling above the liberal derwell, s? polls, polling above the liberal derwell, s'think that says more >> well, i think that says more about the liberal democrats than anything about the liberal democrats than any iting about the liberal democrats than any it says lot about the >> it says a lot about the tories, doesn't it? tories, though, doesn't it? >> i think you'll i >> well, i think you'll see i think you'll the think you'll see the conservatives recover. >> um, as, as governments often do. think that and i think do. i do think that and i think i look at elections like 92, you know, right up until know, when we are right up until polling day, people said had polling day, people said we had no winning. we no chance of winning. we actually an overall actually won with an overall majority. think the majority. if you think of the years even to 1987, where years even up to 1987, where mrs. thatcher had horrible years in and 86, but the government in 85 and 86, but the government recovered because it's when you get to an election, it's not an

opinion poll. it's a choice and it won't be whether you actually like the or not, but it like the tories or not, but it will it's whether you will be whether it's whether you think tories will be think the tories will be a better government. >> it would be problematic >> but it would be problematic if the helm if nigel farage takes the helm of won't it? of reform, won't it? >> well, we managed the >> well, we managed to win the elections when was at the elections when he was at the helm of ukip and of course that actually damaged labour least helm of ukip and of course that actmuch,iamaged labour least helm of ukip and of course that actmuch, i maged labour least helm of ukip and of course that actmuch, i think,i labour least helm of ukip and of course that actmuch, i think, as|bour least helm of ukip and of course that actmuch, i think, as it)ur least helm of ukip and of course that actmuch, i think, as it damaged;t as much, i think, as it damaged the conservatives and the liberal democrats are a particular you would particular problem. you would have have have expected them to have recovered in the recovered much more in the current circumstances. they've not recovered uh, and not recovered at all. uh, and that leaves a bit of a vacuum on that. >> very briefly. do you think david's got questions to answer on post scandal? on this post office scandal? yeah i do, i think that, um, if was it credible that you had an outbreak of criminality dodi amongst subpostmasters , um, amongst subpostmasters, um, without questioning that. >> and i think part of the problem is this, uh, if it's if the choice between people and it you presume that the it is correct and not the people. yeah. um and that's a that's a modern day. >> so the liberal democrat

leader should do what explain himself in the house commons. himself in the house of commons. i have to explain i think he will have to explain in the house of commons the decisions he at the time decisions he took at the time or the decisions didn't take at the decisions he didn't take at the decisions he didn't take at the and why he thought the time, and why he thought that you know, this was if officials you that there's officials tell you that there's a criminality, a big outbreak of criminality, you that . you simply accept that. >> i ask you a quick yes >> and can i ask you a quick yes or no question? um, paula vennells, paula vennells and her cbe she be stripped of it? >> i don't know. um, i think that's always a difficult question because , uh, people question because, uh, people make mistakes. what else have they done to get that award ? they done to get that award? that's not for me to say. >> okay, um, let's move on to foreign affairs with your former defence secretary hat on. liam, i know you're hugely concerned about situation in the about the situation in the middle east. uh, iran particularly, there's a growing sense, isn't there? i think that the west has sort of been sleepwalking into this disaster. we've now got these houthi rebels threatening different offensives in the sea that could, at the end of the day , could, at the end of the day, hugely affect all of the goods

coming across the world. um, and meanwhile, we've got seemingly no solution in sight either in ukraine or indeed in israel. >> well, when iran then is a malignant force in the world, andifs malignant force in the world, and it's when i saw the saudi crown prince on fox news in america saying, every day we're getting closer to israel, i thought iran will react to that. iran does not want, uh, the arab world to get closer to israel because iran doesn't believe israel should exist at all. yes. and i thought, israel should exist at all. yes. and i thought , how will israel should exist at all. yes. and i thought, how will iran do this in the end, it was through their, uh, proxies , uh, hamas, their, uh, proxies, uh, hamas, who are funded and armed by iran. we also had trouble from hezbollah funded and armed by iran. and now we have the houthis, uh, funded and armed by iran. i mean, how long does it take us, uh, to join the dots here? and iran wants to destabilise the global economy. it wants to destabilise the west and by interrupting shipping

flows through the red sea, that's one of the ways in which they will attempt what should they will attempt what should the west do about iran? we need first all, we freedom of first of all, we need freedom of navigation the red we navigation in the red sea. we need to together the sort of need to put together the sort of coalition we had against piracy in somalia. we how to do in somalia. we know how to do that. did it before. it was that. we did it before. it was a successful coalition. we need to do again. and we need to do that again. and we need to recognise if the houthis are going to be a threat to shipping. they need to be dealt with militarily. how worried were you by a report in the telegraph? >> um, in recent days, talking about fact that not about the fact that we do not have enough military personnel to staff some of our new class of frigates in the royal navy, that a couple of them may need to be decommissioned due to staff shortages. >> well, there been >> well, there have been problems recruitment . problems with recruitment. >> think particularly in >> um, i think particularly in the navy . uh, >> um, i think particularly in the navy. uh, and we >> um, i think particularly in the navy . uh, and we need to try the navy. uh, and we need to try to find ways to make that a more attractive career. and in an economy where we still have very low unemployment by historical standards, it's always difficult in those circumstances to

attract new people into the armed forces. so we've got to find new ways to make those careers attractive . nice. some careers attractive. nice. some parts of the armed forces are being successful in being very successful in attracting young people, especially those parts with technical skills that they can then take to, to private. are then take on to, to private. are you worried? >> defended. >> we're under defended. >> we're under defended. >> last week that >> i read last week that vladimir setting aside vladimir putin is setting aside 6% gdp to fund his military. 6% of gdp to fund his military. we're only setting aside 2, approaching 3. are we under defended against not just the threat from you've said iran , threat from you've said iran, russia, but also china. >> we need to be investing in the right sorts of defences, and not all our defences are ones we can see. >> and that's quite a big challenge, i think, culturally for because lot of the for us, because a lot of the threats face will in threats we face will come in places cyberspace . they'll places like cyberspace. they'll come in space and in satellite technology as we see more technology. and as we see more warming of our seas, you'll see more threats from the high north. >> for example, although as we've seen in ukraine, i mean, there is still a place for sort

of on the ground warfare. if there's an invasion, it's soldiers on the ground. do we actually have enough military personnel to defend this country? >> w- country? >> to not defend this country. >> there's a question around nato roles that other nato and the roles that other countries we providing countries have. we are providing to nato our nuclear deterrent, which 30% of our which is about 30% of our defence , and your nuclear defence budget, and your nuclear submarines, strike submarines, our carrier strike capability with our two new carrier which are second carrier ers, which are second only americans in the only to the americans in the world able to carry the american f—355 world able to carry the american f—35s and we've got considerable cyber defences , and we've got a cyber defences, and we've got a new space programme now, we can't be expected to do all of that and provide the land defences for european countries. so i think there are questions around nato about what countries are doing with their defence budget and whether we're playing an role , given the an appropriate role, given the total inside nato. >> would a second time for biden or another for terme, for donald trump be the best solution for the us president election this year? when it comes to maintaining peace in the western world? >> well, i think it's actually more going to be about congress

with due respect than the presidency, because the problem at the moment is getting congress to focus on foreign affairs. you've got people standing election in america standing for election in america this year saying, if i'm elected, i'll burn my passport and just be about and it will just be about america. we need america to be back the reagan era, which is back in the reagan era, which is engagedin back in the reagan era, which is engaged in the rest of the world, recognising that american values the world for values can shape the world for the better. what we've had in recent since the recent years, really, since the obama presidency, america obama presidency, is america becoming more inward focussed, less concerned about foreign affairs and we've got at the moment uncertainty. but if you had to pick biden or trump, um , had to pick biden or trump, um, uh, or hobson's choice , i would uh, or hobson's choice, i would i'd be looking for a candidate who would reflect that wider mainstream republican. so neither well , if i would have to neither well, if i would have to vote for one if they became the candidate. but i think we're actually quite a long way from them being the candidates. i think there's a

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. much more to come. now in the next hour, i'm going to be interviewing laura trott, the chief secretary to the treasury. bridget phillipson, shadow secretary and shadow education secretary and the the one nation the chair of the one nation caucus tory damian green. caucus of tory mps damian green. all that's still to come after the news with pip tomson .

the news with pip tomson. >> good morning. it is exactly 10:00. i'm pip tomson in the gb news room. the environment agency is warning that flooding will continue to during the next week as river levels remain high. more than 1800 properties have already flooded, with residents around the river's trent, severn and thames still at high risk. nearly 200 flood warnings remain in place in england this morning, with possible travel disruption in the south yorkshire and the humber communities secretary michael gove and environment secretary steve barclay have announced funding and tax relief for those communities affected. labour's attack the government's response saying it's been asleep at the wheel . the prime minister at the wheel. the prime minister has denied having hesitations about the government's scheme to send asylum seekers to rwanda when he was chancellor. the bbc claims to have seen documents where rishi sunak expressed scepticism about the plan, stating that the deterrent won't work . the documents also show he work. the documents also show he wanted to pursue smaller volumes

, initially flying 500 people to rwanda in the first year of the scheme instead of the proposed 1500. but speaking a little earlier, the prime minister said it was his job to ask, probing questions about every policy that came across his desk . the that came across his desk. the pensions minister's whip is under threat over claims that he charged taxpayers over £100,000 for campaign materials for the conservative party paul maynard has been referred to the expenses watchdog after a report revealed that donors to the party had to deposit contributions to his personal account and staff , rather than account and staff, rather than the local constituency association. the sunday times also claims that mr maynard claimed rent for an office that doubles up as his local tory association headquarters. the lib dems are urging the prime minister to remove him as minister, while the allegations are investigated . the blackpool are investigated. the blackpool nonh are investigated. the blackpool north and cleveleys mp denies the claims . dozens

north and cleveleys mp denies the claims. dozens. of planes have been grounded in america after a window and part of the fuselage blew out of an alaska airlines plane in mid—air. fuselage blew out of an alaska airlines plane in mid—air . the airlines plane in mid—air. the alaska airlines aircraft was forced to make an emergency landing after a hole appeared where the emergency exit had been. 177 people were on board, but no one's been hurt. the us airline regulator has ordered inspections of 171 airline regulator has ordered inspections of 17! boeing 737 max nine jets, the uk's civil aviation authority have confirmed that the aircraft are not registered in the uk . this not registered in the uk. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. now it's back to . camilla. >> thank you . pip welcome back. >> thank you. pip welcome back. now still lots more to come in. just a minute. i'm going to be joined by the chair of the one nafion joined by the chair of the one nation group of tory mps, damian

green, trott, chief green, laura trott, the chief secretary treasury, will secretary to the treasury, will also speaking to me and i'll also be speaking to me and i'll be discussing all things education with bridget phillipson. she's the shadow education also phillipson. she's the shadow educa ton also phillipson. she's the shadow educa to be also phillipson. she's the shadow educa to be joined also phillipson. she's the shadow educa to be joined by also phillipson. she's the shadow educa to be joined by polling going to be joined by polling expert matt goodwin, who's going to to us through to be on hand to talk us through where the polls are as we enter 2024. first of all, let's bring damian into the damian green into the conversation the conversation now. he's the conservative mp for ashford. he's of the one nation he's chair of the one nation caucus mps , former de caucus of tory mps, former de facto minister facto deputy prime minister and policing minister damian. lovely to morning. let's to see you this morning. let's talk your one nation talk about your one nation group. many on the right blame you because they say that you're too soft as tories. you're too much like lib dems. too soft as tories. you're too much like lib dems . you're the much like lib dems. you're the ones are heralding in this ones that are heralding in this reform resurgence with the possibility now of nigel farage re—entering the political fray, is that fair criticism? >> no. >> no. >> every bit of that is wrong. why because we're not. liberal democrats were conservatives. >> you're soft tories. >> you're soft tories. >> we're a conservative tradition that goes back for as long as the conservative party has existed as an organisation. yes, actually believing in patriotism and the rule of law

sound finance, the sort of traditional conservative virtues, seems to me a very good kind of conservative ism. >> net zero. >> net zero. >> is that a traditional conservative give well policy. >> net zero is a policy that was passed by a conservative government and promoted by the conservative prime minister it was theresa may's government that passed the net zero obligation, the prime minister that has followed it. most enthusiast was johnson, enthusiast was boris johnson, who last time i looked wouldn't necessarily be regarded as a soft, although many on the right felt that that the main in felt that that was the main in his armour. well, people can disagree with net zero if they like, but it is conserving like, but but it is conserving the planet. it is a basic duty of people who believe in conserving our own country. the best of our traditions , ones best of our traditions, ones that actually concevoir ation in the widest sense is a lot of what conservatism is about . what conservatism is about. >> but at the same time, you've incurred the wrath of the grassroots. you had this situation where you were deselected . what was that all deselected. what was that all about? if it wasn't about

somebody, that was about people who objected to system of who objected to the system of having mp, having an having an mp, having an automatic right to my constituency was cut in half and i've been selected for the other half of it. >> so it was reported at the time as some, some great political coup. um but it wasn't. yeah, some might wonder, having served for 26 years why you're wanting to run again if the tories are for facing what many pollsters predict as a sort of electoral oblivion ? well, of electoral oblivion? well, because i don't think we are . i because i don't think we are. i think there is a chance we've now seen the economy, uh, begin to turn. we've seen success on inflation. and in the end, that that old bill clinton era cliche of it's the economy, stupid is by and large, true. and i think we will have, over the course of this year, a good economic story to tell , i think not just on to tell, i think not just on inflation. i think it's very likely all the signals are that we will see a significant tax cuts. would you like to see that? >> what would you like to see

cut. there's been talk about cutting inheritance tax. there's been talk about raising the threshold 52,000 to something higher. dominic cummings in his meetings with rishi sunak has suggested it be raised to £100,000. what's your reaction to that idea? >> well , i to that idea? >> well, i want to that idea? >> well , i want the chancellor >> well, i want the chancellor to do much as he can to do as much as he can responsibly afford to do so. >> we've seen happens when >> we've seen what happens when you and do tax cuts that you try and do tax cuts that people be afforded. people think can't be afforded. so much as possible and aimed so as much as possible and aimed at as many people as possible . at as many people as possible. so i think that it's got to be seen. to be fair, it's got to be putting their own money back in the hands of as as many hard working people as possible . working people as possible. >> so, i mean, is it fair to tax people on inheritance? >> well, in an ideal world, you wouldn't. >> so would you scrap iht? >> so would you scrap iht? >> well, not well , i don't know >> well, not well, i don't know what the chancellor's but i mean just a personal opinion. but you know, i would make the point that the i think the chancellor should concentrate um, possibly on, on income tax measures first. >> okay . so is it fair for

>> okay. so is it fair for people but also the other point i would make is that's got lost in this discussion is that i think an essential part of both a healthy society and actually a society that is, is, if you like, more conservative is home ownership . ownership. >> and i would very much like to see the chancellor do something in the budget to promote people onto the housing ladder for the first time, to help young people become homeowners. because i think young is think helping young people is really for the party. really important for the party. we've, we've lost a lot we've, we've we've lost a lot of support from people and support from young people and also home is a long also home ownership is a long run virtue in this country. and i want to see conservative governments promote that. >> when it comes to fair >> but when it comes to fair policies, it fair that policies, is it fair that somebody on £52,000 a year pays 40% tax? >> well, i think, you know, i would like to see everyone at every level paying less tax to do you need to take tough do that. you need to take tough decisions about public spending. and you can't just go for tax cuts without saying, you know, we've got to get the public finances in shape first. and i very much agree with what liam fox has just been talking to

you, you about that. you, saying to you about that. >> saying you're hopeful you, saying to you about that. >> the saying you're hopeful you, saying to you about that. >> the next1g you're hopeful you, saying to you about that. >> the next generals hopeful you, saying to you about that. >> the next general election, about the next general election, whenever probably whenever that may be. probably the second half of this year, if the second half of this year, if the prime is to be the prime minister is to be believed. at the same time, believed. but at the same time, it's caucus is a thorn it's your caucus that is a thorn in his side when comes to in his side when it comes to this plan. because on one this rwanda plan. because on one hand, you're saying that you won't it if it's won't vote for it if it's amended. and on the other hand, you've got i don't know, you've got the i don't know, they're calling them the sort of five families of other tory caucuses. they won't caucuses. he's saying they won't vote for it unless amended. vote for it unless it's amended. so again, even though rishi so once again, even though rishi sunak facing the toughest sunak is facing the toughest electoral life, if electoral test of his life, if we've your tories arguing we've got your tories arguing with tories in party. with other tories in the party. yeah but fact missed yeah but the fact you've missed out that if my toys, out of that is that if my toys, if you want describe that one if you want to describe that one nafion if you want to describe that one nation voted with nation conservatives voted with the prime minister, supported the prime minister, supported the my the prime minister and my friends colleagues, friends and colleagues, so you support him again. if the legislation is amended, we have said we said no, no, we've said that we want want what the government want we want what the government has reservations about it >> we have reservations about it of course, and individuals will have different reservations, but nevertheless know, partly nevertheless, you know, partly because can accept it. it because we can accept it. it doesn't break the law, it doesn't break the law, it doesn't break the law, it doesn't break our international

obugafions doesn't break our international obligations , but also because we obligations, but also because we are team players. we have got behind the prime minister. >> but you won't be team players if francois has his way if mark francois has his way wrong. >> bill cash p“ >> so if bill cash and mark francois their and francois have their way and amend the legislation, you won't vote so only team vote for it. so your only team players, if team agrees players, if your team agrees with the legislation? >> i would ask bill cash >> well, i would ask bill cash and mark francois stop trying and mark francois to stop trying to legislation, get to amend the legislation, get behind prime minister behind the prime minister >> saying not >> well, they're saying it's not going effective at being going to be effective at being a deterrent deport to deterrent to deport people to rwanda. still not deported rwanda. we're still not deported anyone course anyone to rwanda of course we haven't. anyone to rwanda of course we havand why the government >> and that's why the government is forward this bill. is putting forward this bill. but happy to support the. >> do you want to see anyone deported to rwanda? do i want to see yeah. well want see anyone? yeah. well i want the stop. but do you the boats to stop. but do you want to see anyone deported to rwanda? >> if it works, the government says it's going to act as a deterrent. happy to accept. deterrent. i'm happy to accept. uh, think it will work on uh, do you think it will work on that? it will act as a that? i think it will act as a deterrent. but you think deterrent. yeah but do you think it actually work? it will actually work? >> do you think we're going to see people deported to rwanda? >> i think so. yeah. >> yeah, i think so. yeah. >> yeah, i think so. yeah. >> and you're okay with that?

>> and you're okay with that? >> as long as as long as >> yeah. as long as as long as we our international we meet our international obligations. we meet our international obligawhat's really important. that's what's really important. this stuff about taking away the idea you take away any idea that you can take away any individual to appeal individual rights to appeal on any case, quite any court case, that's quite dangerous someone dangerous if you send someone back be in danger back who would be in danger there, then that's the right thing. >> but don't you think that illegal immigrants are just giving the government the complete aren't giving the government the complefrustrated aren't giving the government the complefrustrated as aren't giving the government the complefrustrated as anybodyan't giving the government the complefrustrated as anybody on you as frustrated as anybody on the wherever at the right or wherever else at some these people who are some of these people who are clinging their clinging on to their human rights, even though some of them have crimes in this have committed crimes in this country, deported? have committed crimes in this couit's, deported? have committed crimes in this couit's a deported? have committed crimes in this couit's a scandal,ieported? have committed crimes in this couit's a scandal, isn'tted? have committed crimes in this couit's a scandal, isn't it?? >> it's a scandal, isn't it? >> it's a scandal, isn't it? >> it's a scandal, isn't it? >> it's well, it's a failure of the law as it currently stands . the law as it currently stands. yes, yes. and so , you know, it yes, yes. and so, you know, it is up to parliament if it wants to, uh, to change the law. but i think we need to change the law. so, uh, when we do as we do all the time, what parliament does in a responsible way, that that meets international meets our international obugafions meets our international obligations and accepts that for britain to join russia and belarus being outside the echr , belarus being outside the echr, for example, the european convention on human rights would be a strange position for

britain to be in as well as the effects on things like the good friday agreement. >> ask you a couple of >> i want to ask you a couple of questions about policing. so very reaction to very briefly, your reaction to chris his chris skidmore announcing his resignation, standing down? >> appalled that. >> i'm pretty appalled by that. are i'm disappointed that are you i'm disappointed that chris that. he was he chris has done that. he was he was his seats abolished. he was standing anyway . this is a standing down anyway. this is a wholly by—election. standing down anyway. this is a vllhink by—election. standing down anyway. this is a vllhink he's by—election. standing down anyway. this is a vllhink he's being by—election. standing down anyway. this is a vllhink he's being because ection. standing down anyway. this is a vllhink he's being because he)n. i think he's being because he betrayed the prime minister. yeah, i think i mean, i think the prime minister will be entirely justified to feel very, very cross about this and all his, constituents, workers his, his constituents, workers who supported him for who presumably supported him for years. >> um, can i talk to you in your capacity as a former policing minister about a couple of things. first of all, the police are now investigating the post office. your of office. what's your view of paula vennells? should she have a away? a cbe taken away? >> the committee that >> well, the committee that looks the looks at that has asked the government opinion government but personal opinion damian. oh personal opinion i personally would personally think that it would it do credit if she it would do her credit if she voluntarily had. >> back. i mean 600,000 have >> yes back. i mean 600,000 have now petition . i now signed a petition. i appreciate that people are now more scandal more familiar with this scandal because documentary ,

because of the itv documentary, but any but nobody's taken any responsibility for this all. responsibility for this at all. should davey take some responsibility? >> i think ed davey has got a lot of questions to answer. it's as you know, ex—ministers will. i was thinking, well, what would i was thinking, well, what would i done? like to think i have done? and i like to think that i'd been told i'd that if i'd been told i'd hundreds subpostmasters have hundreds of subpostmasters have suddenly criminals , i suddenly become criminals, i would have asked questions about that all my experience that because all my experience of subpostmasters is that they are the definition of pillars of the community, and so the idea that hundreds of them suddenly were indulging in fraud and criminality was always an extraordinary accusation. >> yeah. ed davey replies to mr bates and says, no, we shouldn't have a meeting. this isn't of interest. yeah, exactly. >> and that's why i think ed davey has got very serious questions to answer this. questions to answer on this. i think he's in big trouble. >> let's talk about very, very >> let's talk about a very, very tragic the death of harry tragic story. the death of harry pitman. we be careful pitman. we have to be careful because proceedings are active. pitman. we have to be careful bectin;e proceedings are active. pitman. we have to be careful bectin general,dings are active. pitman. we have to be careful bectin general, i ngs are active. pitman. we have to be careful bectin general, i mean,e active. pitman. we have to be careful bectin general, i mean, as:tive. pitman. we have to be careful bectin general, i mean, as ave. but in general, i mean, as a mother, a 13 year old mother, i've got a 13 year old son. he sometimes to go to son. he sometimes likes to go to camden his mates near where camden with his mates near where this incident happened on new

year's eve. i think parents are frightened their at frightened for their children at the crime has the moment. knife crime has increased 40% capital. increased by 40% in the capital. what's to this what's the solution to this problem? it more stop problem? damian is it more stop and search? >> i think there are two >> i think i think there are two solutions. there's the government solution and a police operational solution, which is obviously that's independent obviously that's an independent decision constables. decision for chief constables. and in this case, the commissioner of the met, the government's contribution has to be to make sure that you have enough police officers . and enough police officers. and that's a commitment that we've met. in 2019, we said we would have 20,000 extra police officers. and i know in my part officers. and i know in my part of the world in kent, there are more police out there than we've ever had. now that's good that is not. is what it's not. >> the perception of your constituents, is it? constituents, though, is it? >> isn't. and because and >> no it isn't. and because and it is true, people haven't yet noficed it is true, people haven't yet noticed that. and that brings me on to the other point, which is operational. those police need to deployed doing the things to be deployed doing the things that that my constituents and the general public more widely want to see happen. and that will absolutely be london will absolutely be in london tackling knife crime all around

the country , making sure that the country, making sure that every burglary, every housebreaking is properly investigated as soon as possible. people want the police to be doing that rather than some of the other things that that they're criticised for doing . and that, as i say, it is doing. and that, as i say, it is not for politicians to tell any individual police officer, go and investigate that crime rather than this crime, but that is the job of chief constable's. so i hope that around the country, chief constables will take the message that they need to be policing the streets. they've now got the resources to do it. should be policing do it. they should be policing the streets the that the the streets in the way that the general want to see them general public want to see them policed. >> but i interview politicians. i ask to ask one i always ask to like to ask one question with just a yes or no answer. if you're capable, how often they ever do that? often do they ever do that? very, very i've got to very, very rarely. i've got to be honest. you that the be honest. do you think that the prime was right to have prime minister was right to have met with dominic cummings as prime twice last year? prime minister twice last year? um, yes. or no? >> uh, i wouldn't have done so.

>> uh, i wouldn't have done so. >> so that's a no, thank you very much. damian green , for very much. damian green, for joining me this morning. lovely to speak to you, listening in to all that was michael portillo, my fellow gb news host who's got his show coming up at 11:00. just a brief word, because i've challenged damian there on this nofion challenged damian there on this notion of some of the more left wing conservatives at war with some of the more wing some of the more right wing conservatives. is this a problem moving the party? i moving forward for the party? i mean, it's ever been a problem, hasn't course is. hasn't it? of course it is. >> mean, said that this >> i mean, damian said that this was long tradition. the one was a long tradition. the one nafion was a long tradition. the one nation group in the conservative party and he could have added that been very successful that it's been a very successful tradition, know, often that it's been a very successful tradconservativesw, often that it's been a very successful tradconservatives have often that it's been a very successful tradconservatives have governed the conservatives have governed from centre ground, you from the centre ground, you know, macmillan know, from disraeli to macmillan . and we still believe, . and i think we still believe, by and large, that general elections are won on the centre ground . however, in the ground. however, in the circumstances of this election, it looks as though many conservative voters are extremely worried about the immigration policy. extremely worried about the immigration policy . and i think immigration policy. and i think the issue with the one nation position is that it gives the impression that there is

something that the conservative government could do more to stop immigration and the boats than it is willing to do, and that damian has expressed that his concern is about remaining within the international law framework. but there may be some voters who say, well, i'm not concerned that . i want to concerned about that. i want to break that framework because the boats most important boats are the most important thing think, you thing to me. so i think, you know , although damian says know, although what damian says about the one nation groups long and distinguished tradition and indeed successful tradition at the moment, i think that tradition may be costing the conservatives votes and that is where, know, part the where, you know, part of the threat from reform is coming. >> damian, very response threat from reform is coming. >>that. ian, very response to that. >> i think the danger is assuming that if the conservative party got tough on immigration, you would simply add reform vote to the add the reform vote to the conservative because conservative vote, because actually , the vote i'm most actually, the vote that i'm most worried about the labour vote worried about is the labour vote and possibly the lib dem vote. because if you if you move too far to right, you lose votes far to the right, you lose votes in the centre. so every in a first past the post electoral system , you need to assemble system, you need to assemble a

broad and it's not broad coalition. and it's not easy. but that's the task of the prime minister but as has been said , planes and birds need two said, planes and birds need two wings to fly. you need to reflect the best of all traditions within a conservative family. >> um , i had your, uh, successor >> um, i had your, uh, successor as defence secretary, liam fox , as defence secretary, liam fox, on earlier talking about whether the navy was adequately defended. we've had a story in the telegraph by my colleague daniel sheridan, talking about the fact that two frigates have had to be decommissioned because of staff. does that of a lack of staff. does that worry michael? worry you, michael? >> worries very much >> it worries me very much indeed. that indeed. to two frigates that have gone through an have just gone through an enormously refit. so enormously expensive refit. so obviously this was not planned for this was not foreseen. they cannot recruit crew. um, i'm going to be talking to rear admiral retired chris parry on my programme. he thinks that the recruitment policy, the recruitment policy, the recruitment problem for the royal navy is not just a sort of, you know, run of the mill thing. if they can't quite get enough chaps. he thinks there's been a change in society and that there simply aren't enough people. he argue who

people. he will argue who believe nation, who believe in the nation, who believe in the nation, who believe the nation, believe in the nation, who beliethink the nation, believe in the nation, who beliethink that the nation, believe in the nation, who beliethink that it's the nation, believe in the nation, who beliethink that it's worth nation, who think that it's worth spending months months at spending months and months at sea order to defend the sea in order to defend the nation. so he thinks it's actually a change in the national attitude, which is reflected in failure to reflected in a failure to recruit enough people to do these jobs. so that will be an interesting point. really fascinating on my program interview who else interview coming up, who else have on your programme, have you got on your programme, michael? we're going to be michael? well, we're going to be talking broadcasting to talking about broadcasting to some the some extent. we've got the former minister to former polish prime minister to on about the action of the on talk about the action of the new polish minister new polish prime minister in sacking at the sacking all the people at the national broadcaster and effectively down. effectively closing it down. i guess we're also going to be talking about national talking about our national broadcaster because latest broadcaster because the latest in the martin bashir case, uh, he who got princess diana has given an interview on false pretences is that the bbc have now come forward in a very dilatory fashion with a whole lot of emails which have been requested under freedom of information, but they're going to heavily redacted. so we to be heavily redacted. so we are debating are going to be debating national . good stuff. >> really looking forward to it. at 11, michael portillo's show,

we'll be back with a bang in 2024. now don't go anywhere because we've still got more to come on my show after the break. i'm going to be speaking to laura chalk, chief secretary laura chalk, the chief secretary to treasury, labour's to the treasury, and labour's bridget the shadow bridget phillipson, the shadow education all to education secretary all that to come, anywhere

on gb news, the people's channel on gb news, the people's channel, britain's news channel . channel, britain's news channel. welcome back to the camilla tominey show lovely to have your

company. i'm delighted to say that bridget phillipson, the shadow education secretary, joins me now. she's also the labour for houghton and labour mp for houghton and sunderland nice see sunderland south. nice to see you, phillipson . thank you you, miss phillipson. thank you very much for joining this very much for joining me this morning. now you've said that you rishi to you want rishi sunak to come clean about rwanda. you're calling for publication of calling for the publication of documents seem to indicate documents which seem to indicate that minister isn't that the prime minister isn't exactly by his own exactly in fused by his own central immigration plan. although my question to labour would be how on earth does that help solve the crisis involving illegal immigrants coming to this their droves ? this country in their droves? yeah the prime minister this morning again refused to answer questions on this. >> i think it was far from clear about why his position has changed. it's because it's all about what conservative about what the conservative party, about internal party, it's about internal management there. it's not actually serious actually about getting serious about dealing with the cross—border smuggling gangs, about sure we are about making sure we are effective at tackling that, that we're cutting the backlog where it comes to asylum cases and stopping the use of inappropriate hotels. that's what labour's involves what labour's plan involves

getting on the gangs and getting tough on the gangs and making sure we're clearing that backlog. >> but if you don't support the rwanda plan, what i'd like to know is labour does come into know is if labour does come into power people have sent power and people have been sent to what would you then to kigali, what would you then do those bring them do with those people? bring them . home. >> well, it's far from clear whether the plan will have sent anyone to rwanda because you know, we've sent more home secretaries to rwanda than we have asylum seekers . but if it have asylum seekers. but if it does, even if rwanda were to be an effective intervention, well, even if it were to be effective, you're talking about between 100 to 200 asylum seekers. it's1% to 200 asylum seekers. it's 1% of the backlog of claims that we're facing at the moment. so it's just not the answer. it's a gimmick. what we need to have is a as labour are a serious plan. as labour are set around tackling those set out around tackling those cases, backlog cases, that huge backlog of cases, that huge backlog of cases and ending the use of inappropriate accommodation such as . as hotels. >> let's get on to your patch now and education. i saw the interview that you this interview that you did this morning the sunday times. morning with the sunday times. i know you're speaking at the csj this week, the centre for social justice. out

justice. they've just come out with report about missing with a report about missing children. they've done a lot of reports missing children reports on the missing children of particularly , and of lockdown, particularly, and they've this they've come up with this stunning suggest stunning statistic to suggest that 1 in 4 stunning statistic to suggest that! in 4 parents are pretty casual about not they casual about whether or not they send children to school. i send their children to school. i mean, are these parents bad parents? miss phillipson , it's parents? miss phillipson, it's deeply concerning the levels of persistent absenteeism that we're seeing. >> i mean, my message to parents is that it's vital that children are in school every day at school counts . it has an impact school counts. it has an impact not just on their kids life chances, but also on the learning and opportunities for everyone in the because everyone in the class. because what hear from teachers is what i hear from teachers is that is disruptive. if you've that it is disruptive. if you've got school and they're got people in school and they're not school, i this is a not in school, i know this is a complex issue that we're facing, and a long and it does require a long terme plan . that's what i'll be plan. that's what i'll be setting out this week in the speech i'm giving. speech that i'm giving. but we've get serious about we've got to get serious about it. has to be urgency it. there has to be an urgency and that i'm setting and the plans that i'm setting out provide support for out will provide support for parents are parents and families who are struggling. so health struggling. so mental health counsellors in secondary counsellors in our secondary schools, health, open schools, mental health, open access , mental health hubs in

access, mental health hubs in our communities because it's about doing their bit, about parents doing their bit, but government doing our but about government doing our bit as well. and that's what an incoming government would do. >> do. but an incoming labour >> okay. but an incoming labour government is also going to put vat private school the vat on private school fees. the independent council independent schools council predicts that this could cause 40,000 pupils to leave the private sector, and then need to be educated in the public sector. how on earth is the labour party going to be able to produce enough classrooms , and produce enough classrooms, and indeed teachers to indeed enough teachers to educate the children that can no longer be educated private longer be educated in private schools ? schools? >> i believe that children in our state schools deserve urgent access to mental health support more than private schools need tax breaks, and that's just a straightforward question of political priorities. by ending the tax breaks that private schools deliver schools enjoy will deliver better mental health, support more our more teachers into our classrooms , and improved access classrooms, and improved access to our youngest to help for our youngest children well. that's children as well. that's what drives me. that is my priority and i simply don't accept a lot of what's being said from the independent schools council and

my focus will be on driving the life chances of the vast majority of children in our country state country who attend state schools, of kids in our schools, and 93% of kids in our country . country. >> okay, let's just say a >> okay, so let's just say a conservative estimate that the isc overexaggerate started isc is overexaggerate started the exodus. that happen as the exodus. that could happen as a of your flagship, a result of your flagship, frankly, policy . and frankly, education policy. and only 20,000 private school pupils leave and need to be educated in a state schools practically . how on earth are practically. how on earth are you going to educate them? where are they going to be accommodated ? you're the one accommodated? you're the one that's been banging on since you've post that we you've been in post that we don't you've been in post that we dont enough you've been in post that we don't enough teachers and don't have enough teachers and that full. so that classrooms are too full. so how are you physically going to educate these children whose parents can no longer the parents can no longer afford the fees ? because if you look at the fees? because if you look at the work from the institute for fiscal studies, the independent body that's considered all of this, they're clear that our policy would raise between !.3 to £15 policy would raise between !.3 to £!.5 billion net. >> so taking account of all of that, that's a considerable sum of money that we could invest. i would say alongside that private schools have year after put

schools have year after year put up way beyond up their fees way beyond inflation, well beyond the means of most parents, including middle class parents who might have considered have in the past considered sending to sending their children to private school. but in addition to that, what we're also seeing is a demographic shift. that means, sadly, we're in the position at the moment where schools are merging and closing because falling numbers because of the falling numbers of we're seeing in of children that we're seeing in our country of school i'm our country of school age. i'm sorry, but you're still not addressing the question i'm asking practical terms. asking you in practical terms. >> have >> are you going to have makeshift classrooms set up because said that because keir starmer said that you're expediting this policy, you're expediting this policy, you're going any you're not going to waste any time. so people could already pre—emptively be thinking, i'm going pull out of going to pull my kids out of school come september. going to pull my kids out of school come september . we've got school come september. we've got an you're an autumn election. you're 20 points polls . points ahead in the polls. labour are going to get in. i won't be able to afford it. so how are you going to accommodate as soon you get into office? as soon as you get into office? three children in three thousands more children in the state system . the state system. >> as i say, i simply don't accept that some of the rhetoric from the independent schools council, but what we are seeing at the moment is what we're

seeing at the moment in terms of a demographic shift within our schools, are schools, means that we are seeing fewer children seeing fewer and fewer children of age coming through the of school age coming through the system. in system. actually, we're in a position where, you know, in many parts of the country, schools are starting merge or schools are starting to merge or to of that shift. to close because of that shift. so i i just don't so but i just i just don't accept the rationale. sorry so but i just i just don't acce it the rationale. sorry so but i just i just don't accei would |tionale. sorry so but i just i just don't accei would say ale. sorry so but i just i just don't accei would say saying sorry so but i just i just don't accei would say saying youry that i would say saying you don't accept decisions. private schools choices they schools have got choices they can make. >> minister. >> shadow minister. >> shadow minister. >> sorry that can make >> i'm sorry that they can make to you know, that's not to in the you know, that's not a practical answer to my question. >> and equally we've got a number much smaller number of much smaller independent saying that independent schools saying that they . so you've they face closure. so you've got a whammy parents a double whammy of parents pulling children out of pulling their children out of private some private private schools and some private schools you're schools closing. you're advocating that is advocating a policy that is closing schools down. what is going to happen , in a practical going to happen, in a practical sense, to those pupils when labour gets into power? you could be into power one month after the new school terme and have a load of pupils with no class room to attend. what's going to happen to them ? going to happen to them? >> well , in terms of

going to happen to them? >> well, in terms of what private schools have been seeing, one private school last week was saying that they wouldn't pass on any vat fees to parents, that they would absorb that cost and they would make it work. >> i think there are cost savings that private schools could they've put their could make. they've put up their fees 20% above inflation in recent . it is way beyond recent years. it is way beyond the of most of your the means of most of your viewers to send their children to school, more to private school, 15.5 more than !5, to private school, 15.5 more than 15, £16,000 to private school, 15.5 more than !5, £16,000 a year on average , for one child is beyond average, for one child is beyond most of the people that i represent. and i imagine it's beyond most of your viewers. and that's why i want to focus on delivering a brilliant state education for the vast majority of our children this country of our children in this country who schools. that's who go to state schools. that's my priority. >> so. so far as i can tell, >> so. so as far as i can tell, we're going have possibly we're going to have possibly thousands of children without school in september, school places in september, potentially. anyway, potentially. but anyway, ampleforth eton ampleforth could afford it. eton can lots of much can afford it. lots of much smaller schools told the smaller schools have told the isc they'll to close down. isc they'll have to close down. isc they'll have to close down. i to ask everybody this i like to ask everybody on this show. first show of the a show. first show of the year a yes no question. you don't yes no question. if you don't mind. miss phillipson, chris skidmore, he's abandoned the

tories. would you like see tories. would you like to see him cross floor? would you him cross the floor? would you take chris skidmore into the labour party? yes no ? labour party? yes or no? >> uh , i'm not i'm not >> uh, i'm not i'm not especially interested in that. no, to be honest, i'm more interested in winning the by—election in kingswood that are about to have. that's what i'm most interested in. and we'll be fighting a really tough campaign there. >> right. enough. thank >> all right. fair enough. thank you for speaking me you very much for speaking to me this morning. bridget phillipson. don't phillipson. thank you. now don't go anywhere in just a go anywhere because in just a minute going to speaking minute i'm going to be speaking to laura trott. don't

7:00. this evening. gb news the people's . channel. people's. channel. well come back to the camilla tominey show. >> we're just waiting for laura trott, the chief secretary to the treasury , to be prepared for the treasury, to be prepared for our interview. the meantime, our interview. in the meantime, i'm to bring matt goodwin our interview. in the meantime, i'm ask:o bring matt goodwin our interview. in the meantime, i'm ask youing matt goodwin our interview. in the meantime, i'm ask you ag matt goodwin our interview. in the meantime, i'm ask you a littlet goodwin our interview. in the meantime, i'm ask you a little bit)odwin in and ask you a little bit about what going to talk to about what i'm going to talk to laura about. matt's a laura trott about. matt's a professor in politics and pollster at does lot of pollster at does a lot of polling us at gb so polling for us at gb news. so thank you very much for that, matt. come back matt. we're going to come back to bit later in the show, to you a bit later in the show, but just give me a taster because i found it interesting to morning that the to see this morning that the prime is doubling down prime minister is doubling down on point he says on his five point plan. he says the plan is working, and i'm going to stick the plan. going to stick with the plan. the isn't working, though, the plan isn't working, though, is it? no it isn't. >> if you look at the polling, the latest polling that's come out over last few days, out over the last few days, we've done this with gb news. um, conservatives in um, the conservatives are in deep flatlining um, the conservatives are in deep 23, flatlining um, the conservatives are in deep 23, 24% flatlining um, the conservatives are in deep 23, 24% range flatlining um, the conservatives are in deep 23, 24% range ofatlining um, the conservatives are in deep 23, 24% range of the ing in the 23, 24% range of the national vote. we've just had damian green in the studio saying, well, hope voters

damian green in the studio say goingall, hope voters damian green in the studio say goingall,feel hope voters damian green in the studio say going all,feel ho big'oters are going to feel the big economic recovery. know economic recovery. we know they're you ask voters they're not. if you ask voters today, are things getting better or more than half or worse for you? more than half the country say things are getting worse. thirds say getting worse. two thirds say they see change they want to see change in westminster. they're they're very the cost very pessimistic about the cost of living crisis. but also, as we saw that exchange between of living crisis. but also, as we saw portillo exchange between of living crisis. but also, as we saw portillo and nge between of living crisis. but also, as we saw portillo and damian veen michael portillo and damian green, um, immigration, if you look at those 20!9 conservative voters, boris johnson's voters, the top issue for all those voters is not the cost of living crisis . it's voters is not the cost of living crisis. it's stopping the voters is not the cost of living crisis . it's stopping the boats. crisis. it's stopping the boats. the number one priority. so rishi sunak, he can say, look , rishi sunak, he can say, look, we're sticking to the plan. but as far as voters out there are concerned, it's not cutting through. they're not feeling the decline in inflation. they're not seeing progress on the small boats. and generally they feel that britain is moving in the wrong direction. >> that's interesting because damian green was quoting the clinton aide who said it's about the economy, stupid . and that the economy, stupid. and that seems to be going against the grain of what you're saying and what you're finding in your survey timing is survey is also the timing is interesting, it? because

interesting, isn't it? because we john sergeant the we had john sergeant on at the beginning the show saying, beginning of the show saying, wouldn't it have been better for them to plump a spring them to plump for a spring election they don't have election then they don't have another small boat another summer of small boat arrivals upsetting the apple cart the polls in cart if they go to the polls in the autumn? >> there's no good date >> well, there's no good date for the conservative party let me i was running me tell you. i was running a focus group stoke on trent focus group in stoke on trent recently. one word recently. there's one word that's define this that's going to define this election security . this is what election security. this is what voters are wanting. they're wanting economic security from the living crisis. the cost of living crisis. they're wanting physical security collapsing nhs security from the collapsing nhs . and also, the way, . and also, by the way, increasing crime. they're wanting national security from the small boats and spiralling immigration and they're wanting cultural security from this very oppressive political correctness or the woke ideology stuff . or the woke ideology stuff. whoever taps into that word security is going to win this election. and rishi sunak problem is that he's gone into the casino of british politics, and he's put all of his chips on this five point plan. but so much of that plan is outside of his control. yes, the global

economic winds , the small boats, economic winds, the small boats, the international legal obugafions the international legal obligations that we have. and so i think he's going into 24. camilla in a very, very weak position, actually . and i say if position, actually. and i say if you look at the polling numbers, we'll come back and talk about them in more detail. we're looking at not just a heavy defeat for the conservative party, historic defeat for party, but a historic defeat for the conservative party. this the conservative party. and this is the issue. so i think is the real issue. so i think number !0 is the real issue. so i think number 10 going to be number !0 are going to be increasingly panicking as they go through the few weeks go through the next few weeks and months. go through the next few weeks ancwe're hs. go through the next few weeks ancwe're going on to when >> we're going to get on to when you back with me talking you come back with me talking about talking about about reform, talking about whether the helm about reform, talking about wireform the helm about reform, talking about wireform will the helm about reform, talking about wireform will improve the helm about reform, talking about wireform will improve things. elm of reform will improve things. i'd like you to talk me through those later. those numbers a little later. what you of the news what did you make of the news that rishi sunak had to of that rishi sunak had turn to of all people, dominic cummings for electoral advice? mean, electoral advice? i mean, i'm not surprised that that that meeting held. meeting was held. >> consider that rishi >> when you consider that rishi sunak also advised by james sunak is also advised by james forsyth, who was at the spectator , where dominic spectator, where dominic cummings, it's all very cosy , a cummings, it's all very cosy, a very connection going on very insular connection going on there. i mean, um , we all there. look, i mean, um, we all have different views about dominic my is, is

dominic cummings. my view is, is you know, a fruitcake could have won a 2019 general election because people were fed up because people were so fed up they brexit done. they wanted brexit done. >> it just happened to corbyn. >> just happened to be boris >> it just happened to be boris johnson and cummings just happened never happened to be there. i've never bought this kind of bought into this kind of narrative that he's an election genius. think some of genius. um, and i think some of the things that he's been talking changed talking about, how he changed britain sort of you britain around a sort of you know, high tech, um, know, uh, high tech, um, technocracy, civil technocracy, reforming civil service. not where service. well, that's not where voters okay. um, voters are right now. okay. um, to go back to it's the economy. stupid. actually today it's the culture. stupid yes. not culture. stupid yes. it's not just the cost of living crisis. it's a sense out there in the country that the institutions aren't representing the values and the voice of the british people, the elites aren't representing the values and the voice of the british people and the corridors of power are steadily further and steadily moving further and further from the average further away from the average voter. and think , you know, i, voter. and i think, you know, i, one of my colleagues this week, john curtice, someone i really get on with really respect, john made the good point. he said , made the good point. he said, look, are look, the conservatives are under now on two sides.

under attack now on two sides. reform and labour. i would add to that i think they're under attack on sides. the attack on three sides. the reform party, labour party and apathy. i think lots of people out there are just not going to bother voting at all. and i think the apathy is the enemy. conservatives are saying, look, we turned to boris johnson because we wanted a revolution in wasn't just in this country. wasn't just about brexit changing immigration skill. um immigration in high skill. um high wage immigration, new australia style policy. we wanted the institutions reformed, we wanted levelling up to be a success. we didn't want london getting everything . we london getting everything. we wanted brexit to really mean brexit to have real divergence. we wanted a different political economy in this country that works everybody, not just works for everybody, not just the top 5. and i think because the top 5. and i think because the conservative then struggle and i would argue failed to really deliver that , that really deliver on that, that revolution that people were asking of them in asking for. so many of them in my focus groups now are saying, well, not going to vote well, i'm just not going to vote at all because i see labour as a continuation of the status quo . continuation of the status quo. i see the conservative parliamentary party not parliamentary party is not

really in really being interested in shaking up the status quo. they don't yet know enough don't really yet know enough about tice about reform. yes richard tice is well. they're up to !0, is doing well. they're up to !0, 11% the national polls. 11% in the national polls. i would argue. kamila reform should on 25. yes i mean, in should be on 25. yes i mean, in the current context of these, that issues. leadership that might be issues. leadership election , the biggest cost of election, the biggest cost of living crisis for 50 years. i think reform should be on 24, although you could say that. think reform should be on 24, altho mean, u could say that. think reform should be on 24, althomean, i could say that. think reform should be on 24, althomean, i know say that. think reform should be on 24, althomean, i know the that. think reform should be on 24, althomean, i know the labour >> i mean, i know the labour party ahead, but they party are well ahead, but they could be further ahead. could even be further ahead. you're that you're talking about apathy that also suggests that it's not like !997, where you've got a load of tories at actively right now planning to defect to labour because they're going, yeah, keir starmer as prime minister. they're clearly that they're clearly not saying that in way that they did in the same way that they did with tony blair. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> look at the polling >> so if you look at the polling numbers today, all of those numbers today, take all of those bofis numbers today, take all of those boris johnson voters from 2019. where they now? um, where are they going now? um, we've got about 40% staying with the we've we've got about 40% staying with the about we've we've got about 40% staying with the about !5% we've we've got about 40% staying with the about !5% going we've we've got about 40% staying with the about !5% going to we've we've got about 40% staying with the about !5% going to labour. got about !5% going to labour. we've got nearly ! in 4 got about !5% going to labour. we've got nearly! in 4 going to reform about 20 to 20, 23. a larger number, by the way, are

saying i don't know who to vote for. i'm not going to vote. i refuse to answer your question. so we've got a lot of conservatives out there who are telling me, as a pollster, chances are i'm going to stick at home, right? chances are i'm not even going to participate in the this is a big the election. and this is a big problem the problem for sunak. where's the big narrative? big motivational narrative? where's the big inspirational story about how he's going to change britain, how he's going to completely reshape the country? big, country? where's that big, compelling get off sofa at compelling get off your sofa at home and come out and vote conservative, because voters are clearly feeling it now. keir clearly not feeling it now. keir starmer certainly isn't setting the country fire. his the country on fire. his leadership ratings pretty leadership ratings are pretty flat. old saying flat. but as the old saying goes, governments, uh goes, right, governments, um, uh , oppositions don't need to win elections , governments lose elections, governments lose elections. and is basically elections. and this is basically where we're at with with british politics at the moment, no widespread burning enthusiasm politics at the moment, no wideitherid burning enthusiasm politics at the moment, no wideither left|rning enthusiasm politics at the moment, no wideither left or ng enthusiasm politics at the moment, no wideither left or right.thusiasm politics at the moment, no wideither left or right. lots asm for either left or right. lots of voters crying out for change. our first past the post system makes that very difficult. and this, i think, is where we are today. >> i'm about to speak to laura trott, the chief secretary to the treasury, ask her

the treasury, and we'll ask her whether going to be whether they're going to be planning radical or planning any radical or bold moves in the forthcoming budget, which we're expecting, think moves in the forthcoming budget, wh march re expecting, think moves in the forthcoming budget, wh march the xpecting, think moves in the forthcoming budget, wh march the 8th, ting, think moves in the forthcoming budget, wh march the 8th, ing, think moves in the forthcoming budget, wh march the 8th, in general, on march the 8th, in general, a tax cuts attractive to the electorate. >> matt. so look, i think the conservatives routinely overestimate the importance of tax cuts. >> the reason i say that nationally, if you say to voters, what do you want to do with tax and spend about a third, okay, matt, hold that thought because i'm coming back to after this. to you after this. >> and laura trott's ready now , >> and laura trott's ready now, uh, the chief secretary to the treasury joins me. lovely to see you this morning. she's the you this morning. she's also the conservative sevenoaks. conservative mp for sevenoaks. hello, minister. nice to see you. the prime you. um, look, the prime minister has this morning minister has said this morning he's stick with he's going to stick with this five point because the plan five point plan because the plan is the only problem is working. the only problem with of course, is that with that, of course, is that the plan isn't working. i've just from matt goodwin, just heard from matt goodwin, who's a lot polling to who's done a lot of polling to suggest hasn't shifted the suggest he hasn't shifted the dial with electorate. dial at all with the electorate. and he's brought and equally, yes, he's brought down but other down inflation, but the other four remain to be four points remain to be fulfilled. and already a fulfilled. and it's already a new . new year. >> well, what we've seen in >> well, look what we've seen in the year since rishi became

the last year since rishi became prime minister is that the economy has turned a corner. you know, the year. and a bit ago know, in the year. and a bit ago when over, were when he took over, we were forecast have the biggest forecast to have the biggest recession we've seen in recession that we've seen in !00 years. was over 11. years. inflation was over 11. you know, we've now seen growth in the economy , you know, albeit in the economy, you know, albeit small. and we want it to be more. and also we've seen inflation come down. that's really important. and it's really important. and it's really important. and it's really important for people at home. is working i know home. so it is working i know you're raise with you're going to raise with me nhs rightly nhs waiting list quite rightly because have seen a really because we have seen a really big impact result of the big impact as a result of the strikes. but what we've seen is where we haven't had those strikes. we are starting to make progress on the waiting list, so we hope that can get resolved and we continue on with and we can continue on with that. then on stopping the that. and then on stopping the boats, obviously numbers boats, obviously the numbers have illegal have come down of illegal migration by over a migration over here by over a third year time when third last year at a time when it's going up by 80% in countries like italy. but we countries like italy. um, but we want to go further. we know we need more. and that's why need to do more. and that's why we've legislation we've introduced the legislation into commons to into the house of commons to stop so we really are stop the boats. so we really are seeing progress. i know there's more be done. and that's the

more to be done. and that's the argument to argument that we're going to be making the year. making over the next year. >> okay. i mean, we'll come on to the boats in just a moment. but can't be happy with the but you can't be happy with the growth forecasts. i mean, they're flatlining isn't they're flatlining growth isn't growing. not growing. i mean, there's not increased growing. i mean, there's not incrnexti growing. i mean, there's not incrnext five years as though the next five years as though it's basically this that's not something you can be happy with. >> i totally get what you're saying. what i would point out is that economy has had is that the economy has had a really time over the really difficult time over the past few years. people have home, have had really home, have had a really difficult the difficult time. we've had the after then after effects of covid, and then we've had energy price we've had the energy price shock. as i said, just over a year ago, we were forecast to have biggest recession in have the biggest recession in 100 have the biggest recession in !00 years. last year we've managed avoid that. now you managed to avoid that. now you are absolutely that are absolutely right that we want more to encourage want to do more to encourage growth. why the autumn growth. that's why at the autumn state, we number of state, we took a number of measures, the biggest state, we took a number of measurfor the biggest state, we took a number of measurfor business the biggest state, we took a number of measurfor business everbiggest state, we took a number of measurfor business ever in|gest tax cut for business ever in terms of full expensing. you know, the have said that know, the obr have said that the measure took over the measure that we took over the last increase growth last year will increase growth significantly by the biggest amount a of amount ever as a result of fiscal events. so we're doing all we can to growth all that we can to boost growth because know how important it because we know how important it is the economy. is for the economy.

>> i mean, you've talked about the boats plan, the stopping the boats plan, which know one rishi which we know is one of rishi sunak points his five point sunak points in his five point plan. having said that, the bbc has there are has discovered that there are documents that he documents which suggest that he doesn't actually support the rwanda he sceptical rwanda plan. he was sceptical about he didn't even about the cost. he didn't even think would act as think it would act as a deterrent. minister deterrent. so the prime minister doesn't does he? doesn't believe really, does he? in of the government's in one of the government's flagship no that's not true. >> i think when you're in the treasury, you know, my job at the moment, i'm chief secretary of the treasury. i am literally sceptical about most aspects of government will sit government spending. i will sit there, look at i will there, i will look at it. i will assess for value money on assess its for value money on every single aspect. so i am sure that he was asking a lot of questions about the policy. but look actions. look what look at his actions. look what he's you know he's he's done. you know he's introduced illegal migration introduced the illegal migration bill into the house of commons. the which will the rwanda bill, which will introduce to this country introduce rwanda to this country and will mean that we overturn the issues that were raised by the issues that were raised by the court of appeal. it will mean that flights can take off to rwanda, which we think is incredibly important because we

know works. we've know deterrence works. we've seen what happened with the albania deal, they get albania deal, where they do get returned country of returned to their country of origin and numbers of albanians coming as by coming over here as reduced by 90. so this is why it's so important that we get the rwanda bill through. >> but at the same time, >> i know, but at the same time, labour now asking the labour are now asking the government to publish some of this mean, you this paperwork. i mean, will you do that? it's not really do that? because it's not really necessarily about him looking at the finer details. it was basically view that basically expressing a view that you didn't think the would you didn't think the plan would actually actually he's actually work. and actually he's been vindicated in hasn't been vindicated in that, hasn't he? mean, have sent more he? i mean, you have sent more home secretaries rwanda home secretaries to rwanda than you deportees . you have deportees. >> well, mean , labour will do >> well, i mean, labour will do literally anything to avoid talking about what their actual plan is, and that's because they don't have one on a legal migration as we do. that's why we're the rwanda bill we're putting the rwanda bill through house. it's through the house. it's obviously running obviously not up and running yet, is why we haven't yet, which is why we haven't seen people sent over there, but we it passes the house very we hope it passes the house very soon and then we can get these flights taking off. >> you think that the >> do you think that the chancellor should scrap inheritance in the next inheritance tax in the next budget? i know you're going to

say can't predict what the say i can't predict what the chancellor to do in the chancellor is going to do in the next but i'd like next budget, but what i'd like from laura trott, is a from you, um, laura trott, is a personal opinion to whether personal opinion as to whether you think is fair to. you think iht is fair to. >> no, i don't think it's a fair tax, but i think, you know , i tax, but i think, you know, i don't like a lot of other taxes as well. um, and we what we want to do as a government is bring taxation down, but in a fair way and in a way which is fiscally responsible when it is appropriate to do so, we will not risk fuelling inflation again. and that is what we've seen in other countries across europe. we've seen inflation come down and then start going back up again. that is absolutely not something we're prepared to as government. >> what's the fairest way to deal tax increases deal with income tax increases then? we're going to see then? because we're going to see 3 million people dragged 3 million more people dragged fiscally, the fiscally, dragged over the next five into upper five years into that upper bracket it fair for people bracket. is it fair for people on 52 grand a year to be taxed 40? >> look, i'm a conservative. i believe in low taxes, but i also believe in low taxes, but i also believe in low taxes, but i also believe in paying back our

debts. and we have to take some really difficult decisions to pay really difficult decisions to pay our covid debts. we pay back our covid debts. we spent £400 billion during covid. we spent £!00 billion on helping people with their energy bills. those i think, the right those were, i think, the right decisions , but they've got to be decisions, but they've got to be paid you know, that the paid back. you know, that is the difference between and labour difference between us and labour now starting do that now. we're starting to do that now. we're starting to do that now starting as i said, to now we're starting as i said, to see the economy turning a corner, which is why we're able to talk about tax cuts. but i don't away from fact don't shy away from the fact that to take some really that we have to take some really difficult the difficult decisions in the interim. >> um, had a couple tory >> um, i've had a couple of tory mps this morning talking mps on this morning talking about skidmore stands down about chris skidmore stands down resigning, about chris skidmore stands down resign ofi, about chris skidmore stands down resign of a betrayal of rishi guilty of a betrayal of rishi sunak. do you agree with that? >> look, i mean, chris was a colleague, but i fundamentally disagree with him. i think he's just plain wrong in what he says. you know, we and everybody knows that actually, when it comes to 2050, when we come to net zero, we're still going to be using some fossil fuels, right? that is accepted by every expert committee. um, and it is obviously better that where those fossil fuels do have to be

used, then they are produced domestically because we know that in lower emissions. that results in lower emissions. so right from our carbon so it's right from our carbon emission and it's right emission targets. and it's right for our energy security that we produce things domestically . and produce things domestically. and i think most people at home would understand that. >> and a final thought, if you wouldn't laura trott on wouldn't mind, laura trott on the office scandal. we've the post office scandal. we've got of the police got talk of the police investigating. your investigating. i know your colleague talking colleague jeremy hunt is talking about compensation. listen, we've 600,000 now we've got 600,000 people now supporting petition to have supporting a petition to have paula vennells the former ceo of the post office, stripped of her cbe. presumably you support that i >> -- >> look, the post office have clearly behaved abysmally throughout all of this. this has been an enormous miscarriage of justice and i'm glad to see it's getting the attention that it rightly deserves. paula vennells the individuals, there's a process for that. there's another . process for that. there's another. yeah. so, so in terms of individuals turning to a specific question, there's a there's a process in there's a process of that in terms honours committee to terms of an honours committee to look forfeiture. there's also look at forfeiture. there's also an so it an inquiry going on. so it wouldn't right for me wouldn't be right for me to

comment on individual. >> thank very >> laura trott. thank you very much for your time this much indeed for your time this morning. goodwin still morning. um, matt goodwin still with me, matt, your reaction to that? we have ministers that? i mean, we have ministers on. have be singing from on. they have to be singing from rishi sunak hymn even rishi sunak hymn sheet, even though the plan clearly isn't working . let's talk briefly working. let's talk briefly before we have to go about reform and nigel farage you're talking about those numbers and saying they should be at 25. could they be at 25% if nigel was at the helm? >> well, if you look at the polling data, we've had some stuff from yougov recently that suggested vote would stuff from yougov recently that sugfrom 3d vote would stuff from yougov recently that sugfrom about vote would stuff from yougov recently that sugfrom about !0% vote would stuff from yougov recently that sugfrom about !0% to vote would stuff from yougov recently that sugfrom about !0% to about/ould stuff from yougov recently that sugfrom about !0% to about !5,.d go from about !0% to about !5, with nigel farage at the top of the party. >> my instinct is it could go a bit higher. when you look at these issues around small boats and migration. by the and also legal migration. by the way, is enormous issue way, which is an enormous issue for well. um so for voters as well. um so there's lots of potential for reform , as we know they're under reform, as we know they're under a the post system. a first past the post system. it's going to be hard for them to translate that kind of support into seats. so 2015 being big example being the big example of this ukip about 13% being the big example of this ukip about !3% and ukip polling about !3% and walking away seat. so walking away with one seat. so that's challenge. the one

that's a challenge. the one thing i just wanted to add to this is i don't think the conservatives understand the scale defeat that scale of the defeat that they're looking look at scale of the defeat that they're looinumbers look at scale of the defeat that they're looinumbers this look at scale of the defeat that they're looinumbers this morning at scale of the defeat that they're looinumbers this morning and i the numbers this morning and i ran them before coming to this show, you're looking the show, you're looking at the conservative party walking away at the election with around at the next election with around 150 this at the next election with around !50 this is a problem. !50 seats. this is a problem. >> low now? >> is it that low now? >> is it that low now? >> this is a performance in the region of 97 and 200!. this is every red wall seat going back to the labour party. this is a labour party making enormous gains in scotland, people gains in scotland, which people have about . scotland have forgotten about. scotland is to be big story at is going to be the big story at the watch labour the election. you watch labour making gains, sweeping making all those gains, sweeping the wall and the the red wall and the conservatives because conservatives really, because they've committed to either they've not committed to either of these flanks , they've not of these flanks, they've not committed blue committed to the blue wall, they've not committed to the red wall. i think moment wall. i think at the moment that's getting that's why they're getting squeezed on both sides. reform, picking ! in 4 2019 picking up nearly! in 4 2019 conservative gives labour eating into those conservative voters. but also many of those voters staying at home. this is the big problem for sunak. never problem for sunak. they never really decided on a strategy. and so they've been squeezed

down as a consequence of that . down as a consequence of that. >> um, final question very, very briefly , max, we're running out briefly, max, we're running out of time. um, does it need to come out just something so come out with just something so bold that some of your apathetic tories will just on to it? tories will just latch on to it? i'd massive income tax cuts, i don't know, some other policy on immigration. i mean, is it time to large or go home very briefly? >> mean, i would i think he's >> i mean, i would i think he's been trying do that through been trying to do that through the around rwanda and the things around rwanda and muting some of these suggested tax changes. >> think conservative >> but i think the conservative brand, has to brand, camilla has come to a point i think after !3 point where i think after !3 years, i think voters have just said tuning in said we're not even tuning in anymore. no to what they're saying. conservative saying. the conservative party needs they are, needs to decide who they are, what they believe and who they want to vote for. >> them. want to vote for. >> we�*m. forward to that. >> we look forward to that. well, thank you very for well, thank you very much for joining me today. what a show for the for 2024. so excited about the rest year. i'm going to rest of the year. i'm going to be back at next sunday. up be back at 9.30 next sunday. up next it's michael portillo. have a day. thank you . thanks a great day. thank you. thanks very much matt. thank you

a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> good morning. i'm greg dewhurst . i'm welcome to your dewhurst. i'm welcome to your latest gb news weather. it's cold. start this morning across the country. some frost , fog and

the country. some frost, fog and icy stretches in places, but it will be largely dry . plenty of will be largely dry. plenty of sunny spells as we go through the day. we will have this area of looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> good morning and welcome to sunday with michael portillo as we've reeled into 2024, let us resolve to relish the coming !2 months. reflecting weekly on the latest politics, world affairs , latest politics, world affairs, arts, often with a wry smile, the election race has begun , the election race has begun, albeit unofficially. we retreated to competing new year's messages from the prime minister, the leader of the opposition and the insurgent reform party , all of which

reform party, all of which i found pretty pathetically unconvincing. meanwhile ed davey, leader of the lib dems, is really reeling after the publication of letters showing that as a minister, he was indifferent to the injustices done to the subpostmasters . what done to the subpostmasters. what does my political panel think ? does my political panel think? they'll join me at the top of the programme in poland, a furious debate is raging after the new prime minister and the brexiteers bete noire donald tusk, placed the state tv channel into insolvency after it was accused of bias towards the ousted conservatives . i'm very ousted conservatives. i'm very pleased that the former prime minister of poland, matteo morawiecki, will be joining me live from moorsel , where a huge live from moorsel, where a huge protest against the move is planned. how has our state broadcaster handling the scandal of martin bashir's panorama interview with princess diana this week? it was revealed that the bbc will redact hundreds of emails relevant to the controversy , which had been controversy, which had been requested via freedom of information act application . are information act application. are we speaking to the former bbc news broadcaster nicholas owen?

finally in this first hour, as the conflict in the middle east continues, the conduct of each side is routinely denounced as a war crime. but israel has broken the habit of decades and decided to defend itself in the international court of justice against a charge of genocide brought by south africa. a barrister and director of uk lawyers for israel will join me to explain the legal complexities. all of that to come. but first, your news headunes come. but first, your news headlines with pip tomson . headlines with pip tomson. >> very good morning . it's just >> very good morning. it's just after !!:00. i'm pip tomson in the gb news room . the prime the gb news room. the prime minister has denied having hesitations about the government's scheme to send asylum seekers to rwanda when he was chancellor the bbc claims to have seen documents where rishi sunak expressed scepticism about the plan, stating that the deterrent won't work. the documents also show that he wanted to pursue smaller

volumes, initially flying