pip. >> good afternoon britain. it's 1:00 on tuesday, the 10th of january. post or pressure? >> ministers are scrambling to piece together a solution to quash the convictions of hundreds of wrongly convicted postmasters . postmasters. >> mr nobody, the labour leader, accuses rishi sunak of flip flopping over the government's rwanda plan ahead of next week's dramatic showdown . the prime dramatic showdown. the prime minister hit back , accusing sir minister hit back, accusing sir keir starmer of priority missing people smugglers ahead of the british people . british people. >> meanwhile, sir keir starmer has accused rishi sunak of being mr nobody and of course, rishi sunak hit back. but that's not

at all. winter weather warning the met office is of course, warning that freezing temperatures will be across the united kingdom , warning more united kingdom, warning more than ice , snow and slippery than ice, snow and slippery conditions . conditions. but of course, the big story that has broken within the last houris that has broken within the last hour is that compensate an announcement . for subpostmasters announcement. for subpostmasters £600,000 is the starting amount that they will now be entitled to, or they'll have to do is sign a declaration saying they were wrongly convicted. >> now what we've heard in the last hour is that the prime minister has announced new legislation which will quash the convictions of hundreds of postmasters. and in the last few minutes , the post office minutes, the post office minister, kevin hollinrake, has

been speaking , minister, kevin hollinrake, has been speaking, and he minister, kevin hollinrake, has been speaking , and he says that been speaking, and he says that this move is an exceptional step in exceptional circumstances and what postmasters will now have to do is sign a statement, sign a piece of paper. >> he says that is not foolproof. there could be some guilty really guilty people caught up in this. it's not foolproof, but it is proportionate. and there is a need to act quickly and decisively here. >> and the idea of this piece of paperis >> and the idea of this piece of paper is that this is a piece or a line of truth. and if any postmaster has lied about that, who actually did commit fraud , who actually did commit fraud, well, they will be liable to then be charged, investigated , then be charged, investigated, and potentially sent to prison off the basis of that. it's a safety mechanism . safety mechanism. >> but what's an incredible move in the last hour and all because a drama has galvanised the pubuc a drama has galvanised the public and has galvanised the

government . let's get your government. let's get your latest headlines. here's sam francis . francis. >> pip and tom, thank you very much. good afternoon. from the gb news room i'm sam francis. the headlines at one. well our top story is of course that the government is offering an up front payment of £75,000, which will be made available to hundreds of post office staff. more than 700 subpostmaster were jailed or bankrupted as a result of the flawed horizon. computer software. the postal services minister, kevin hollinrake, has said. in the last few minutes that an exceptional step of introducing new legislation is also needed to make sure that victims get the justice they deserve . deserve. >> i intend to bring forward legislation as soon as we to can overturn the convictions of all those convicted in england or wales on the basis of post office evidence given during the honzon office evidence given during the horizon scandal, office evidence given during the horizon scandal , the government

horizon scandal, the government will, in the coming days, consider whether to include the small number of cases that have already been considered by the appeal court and the convictions upheld well, meanwhile , the upheld well, meanwhile, the labour leader, sir keir starmer, has said that rishi sunak has been caught red handed opposing his own rwanda plan. >> it comes as the prime minister is bracing for a common showdown over his flagship scheme, after being warned by some conservative mps that it won't work unless it's significantly strengthened dunng significantly strengthened during the first prime minister's questions of 2024, starmer referenced reports that rishi sunak wanted to scale back the government's rwanda scheme when he was chancellor . when he was chancellor. >> £400 million of taxpayer money down the drain. no one sent to rwanda , small boats sent to rwanda, small boats still coming. it's hardly a surprise, he wanted to scrap the scheme when he was trying to sneak in as tory leader, but he's been caught red handed opposing the very thing that he's now made. his flagship policy ? yes. which member should

policy? yes. which member should we listen to? the one before us today , or the one who used to today, or the one who used to believe in something but in response, the prime minister accused labour of being against any deterrent . you do need to any deterrent. you do need to have an effective deterrence to finally solve this problem. in fact, the national crime agency agree that you need, in their words, an effective removals and deterrence and that's deterrence agreement. and that's why, becoming prime why, after becoming prime minister, negotiated a new minister, i negotiated a new deal albania. thanks to deal with albania. thanks to which seen . a 93% drop which we have seen. a 93% drop in illegal arrivals from albania. that's how australia stopped the boats. that's why italy, germany and austria are all looking at similar schemes. he's the only one who's opposed to a proper deterrent . to a proper deterrent. >> well, in other news, a nottinghamshire police constable has been found to be under criminal investigation for possible driving offences. that's following the death of an 80 year old, a retired photographer, trevor bartlett, was hit by a police van, uh,

dunng was hit by a police van, uh, during a pedestrian crossing in nottinghamshire in december. the constable , who was driving the constable, who was driving the van has been accused of causing death by dangerous driving and careless and inconsiderate driving . the officer has also driving. the officer has also served a gross misconduct notice for potential breaches of the policing standards. professional behaviour . policing standards. professional behaviour. that's the policing standards. professional behaviour . that's the latest behaviour. that's the latest from the gb newsroom . i'm sam from the gb newsroom. i'm sam francis, i'll be back with you at the top of the hour for now though . back to tom and . pip though. back to tom and. pip >> good afternoon britain . it is >> good afternoon britain. it is 1:06 and we're talking about the biggest story that has dominated the week , the post office the week, the post office scandal of course, where in the last hour , the prime minister last hour, the prime minister and then the post office minister has announced an extraordinary compensation scheme. >> yeah, this is a big development. in the last hour,

there is going to be a new law which will exonerate , after many which will exonerate, after many years , hundreds of subpostmaster years, hundreds of subpostmaster masters and then the post office minister, kevin hollinrake has has answered an urgent question in the house of commons about how it is all going to work and how it is all going to work and how this compensation issue is going to work. it is, he says, an exception step in exceptional circumstances. what you're looking at there is the former boss of the post office, paula vennell, who we know yesterday returned , earned her cbe. well, returned, earned her cbe. well, let's talk to our political correspondent katherine forster. good afternoon to you, catherine. there is a lot to go through here and it is very complicated. but let's start with with the headline, first of all, which is that the prime minister has announced that the law is going to change so that hundreds of post masters can have their convictions quashed . have their convictions quashed. yes yes.

>> this is fabulous news, isn't it? for those hundreds of people wrongly convicted of fraud, of stealing, of cooking the books, when in fact they did no such thing? and some people paid with their lives , others had their their lives, others had their lives ruined. this is a scandal that has been going on for so long. but finally, finally , it long. but finally, finally, it seems like some resolution is in sight. so rishi sunak , the prime sight. so rishi sunak, the prime minister began, prime minister's questions by announcing that new legislation is going to be brought forward , which will brought forward, which will effectively quash all of the convictions of these postmasters. and it will also go speed up the compensation that they've so long needed. and so long deserved. now, i was in a lobby briefing with journalists, with the prime minister's spokesman talking to us immediately after the prime minister's questions , and we minister's questions, and we asked how long this would take. he said that the legislation, they hope will be brought before parliament within weeks , and

parliament within weeks, and their thinking is that all of these convictions should be quashed at some point this year. now there have been some concerns raised about the possibility that a tiny , tiny possibility that a tiny, tiny number of people might indeed have been guilty of fraud . so have been guilty of fraud. so they are going to build into this legislation some sort of safeguards to ensure that if it later transpired that any of these postmasters were guilty , these postmasters were guilty, they could then be held to account at a later date. compensation to for the glo postmasters . that's the group postmasters. that's the group litigation orders . basically, litigation orders. basically, postmasters alan bates that didn't have a criminal conviction, but nevertheless had horrendous experiences and potentially many, many thousand pounds out of pocket. this legislation will apply across england and northern ireland and wales . it's going to be wales. it's going to be different in scotland. they will have a different system. there there and the prime minister's

spokesman also asked about that. fujitsu and if they should be held to account . and he said held to account. and he said that he wasn't going to prejudge the public inquiry that's going on, but did say they where culpability is established, people will be held to account including companies. so certainly leaving the door open for potential action against this big japanese tech firm that put this faulty computer software into postmasters offices, which has caused such terrible, terrible problems . terrible, terrible problems. >> catherine, thank you so much for clearing that up. we were listening to some of these numbers flying around 70,000, 600,000. it seems that those who were convicted and potentially sent to prison, or at least convicted , can get claims convicted, can get claims starting at £600,000. but those who were not convicted will get claims starting at £70,000, and they can appeal for more .

they can appeal for more. >> yes, that's right, 600,000 is the figure that we expect to be given ultimately to everyone who was convicted . a lot of money, was convicted. a lot of money, of course, no amount of money can undo the damage . caniba can undo the damage. caniba i don't think there'll be many people that will think that these people don't deserve love. that's ultimately who fits that's now ultimately who fits the bill. we don't know . i the bill. we don't know. i suspect that the government will pay suspect that the government will pay in the first instance, that it may well be that down the line after the public inquiry finishes, perhaps they might try to claw back of that money to claw back some of that money from fujitsu . so it's difficult, from fujitsu. so it's difficult, of course, because the company has got dozens and dozens of government contracts. it's completely sort of embedded in our systems . so it's not that our systems. so it's not that easy. but certainly they're very profitable and they make many millions from the taxpayer every year. millions from the taxpayer every year . and also, paula vennells , year. and also, paula vennells, she has, of course, given back her cbe. she was boss of the post office when this was coming to delight, delight , though the

to delight, delight, though the post office was still very much in denial for many years. post office was still very much in denial for many years . she's in denial for many years. she's given that award back . back. um, given that award back. back. um, lots of demands now for her to give the bonuses back as well that she earned in that period, amounting to several million pounds. amounting to several million pounds . um, amounting to several million pounds. um, again, amounting to several million pounds . um, again, the prime pounds. um, again, the prime minister's spokesman wouldn't be pushed on that, but let us see what happens. so a really very good day for campaign . but what happens. so a really very good day for campaign. but i just think incredible, isn't it really that despite the years of campaigning, the years of suffering, the hundreds of articles in the paper documents on the telly, it has taken an itv docu drama to finally galvani eyes the government, the powers that be into action and something interesting that stephen flynn, the leader of the snp, said basically , he listed snp, said basically, he listed not just this , but a catalogue not just this, but a catalogue of failures of state at grenfell tower . of failures of state at grenfell tower. hillsborough tainted blood, etc. where victims,

decades on still have not had justice. >> and indeed catherine. and also, as we know, this whole scandal involving tvs, um, all the political parties and at the top of pmqs today , lee anderson, top of pmqs today, lee anderson, uh, asked about sir ed davey, the leader of the lib dems and, um, well, effectively, he called for his resignation . ed davey for his resignation. ed davey was post office minister, wasn't he? under under the liberal democrat conservative coalition. now was ed davey in parliament and also did rishi sunak answer the question in any shape or form? i don't think he even referenced it. did he ? i think referenced it. did he? i think you're quite right, pip. >> no , indeed he didn't. no, >> no, indeed he didn't. no, sir. ed davey was not in house of commons today. he apparently had originally had a question , had originally had a question, um, tabled, but he has had to withdraw that question for

personal reasons. that i am not privy to, but certainly a lot of discussion about his role in all this. he was post office . this. he was post office. minister from 2010 to 20,012. of course, there's been over a dozen post office ministers dunng dozen post office ministers during the period that this scandal has been going for. on he's by no means the only one, but he is the most high profile as the leader a party. now, as the leader of a party. now, again , the prime minister's again, the prime minister's spokesman asked if the prime spokesman was asked if the prime minister thought that sir ed davey resign and would davey should resign and would not be drawn on that. but of course, it has been pointed out by many people that ed davey is generally very quick when there is any whiff of wrongdoing generally very quick when there is a thathiff of wrongdoing generally very quick when there is a that people vrongdoing generally very quick when there is athat people shoulding generally very quick when there is athat people should resign say that people should resign and that perhaps he ought to take, um, his own advice. he, of course, is saying that he's absolutely not going to nor is he going to go back , give back he going to go back, give back his knighthood . um, but, you his knighthood. um, but, you know, he would say that, wouldn't he? so difficult questions for him. but i mean, only one of many people that

there's difficult questions and still questions about why this cbe was ever given to paula vennells in the first place, given that the issues with the honzon given that the issues with the horizon software were known by that time? mhm. >> well, catherine, thank you so much for opening up the murky world of the lobby and how those questions to the prime ministers spokesman work after prime minister's questions, getting a view there of all those behind the scenes goings on katherine forster our political correspondent . correspondent. >> uh, we also want to bring you a statement from fujitsu . who, a statement from fujitsu. who, who is was behind that faulty it system . they've released these system. they've released these words as their response to its part in the scandal. the current post office horizon. it statutory inquiry is examining complex events stretching back more than 20 years. fujitsu has apologised for its role in there, suffering well coming up we'll have the latest on those attacks in the red sea after it emerged that royal naval vessel

hms diamond had done her part in repelling houthi attacks . repelling houthi attacks. >> should the uk be getting involved in this conflict? this is good afternoon britain on

sunday mornings from 930 on . gb news. >> good afternoon britain and welcome back. the crisis in the red sea is heating up as the uk and us repel the largest ever

attack by iranian backed houthi rebels, posting on social media, defence secretary grant shapps says that the royal navy air defence destroyer hms diamond shot down multiple attack drones heading for commercial vessels . heading for commercial vessels. >> luckily, there were no injuries or damage to the diamond or her crew. joining us with more on this is our security editor, mark white. >> good afternoon mark. now all this has happened and just hours ahead of the un security council potentially voting to condemn these rebel attacks on commercial vessels in the red sea. >> yeah, there have been including this attack last night, 26 separate attacks by iranian backed houthi rebels in yemen targeting , according to yemen targeting, according to the houthis, ships that are unked the houthis, ships that are linked to israel transiting through the red sea and the suez

canal. now, this is according to the houthi rebels . but i canal. now, this is according to the houthi rebels. but i think some of the links to israel are tenuous at best, and we know that this attack last night involved eight been attacked , involved eight been attacked, drones and three missiles that were fired towards commercial shipping and towards, it seems hms diamond, that type 45 air defence destroyer out there as part of that sort of maritime policing role in the red sea as well . policing role in the red sea as well. diamond policing role in the red sea as well . diamond itself, we were well. diamond itself, we were given some still images from the ministry of defence showing the situation from the bridge, with those members of the bridge crew in their anti flash, uh, gear as the missiles sea viper missiles were fired towards these attack drones . and we're told that drones. and we're told that seven attack drones were taken

out by hms diamond. the uss um dwight d eisenhower, the supercarrier was in the red sea as well, along with three other us naval vessels that also part in the operation to take those attack drones and those missiles out of action. now, you were mentioning there the defence secretary, grant shapps , he has secretary, grant shapps, he has been speaking in the last hour, and he again then issued a warning to those houthi rebels . warning to those houthi rebels. >> you have, i'm afraid, failed to heed the warnings issued on the 3rd of january. we seem to see a drop off after that by a number of different countries, including the uk and the us. for them to stop and to cease action. but i'm afraid last night proved they really are not listening. if this doesn't stop, then action will be taken. so i'm afraid i suppose the simplest thing is to say watch this . space. well the

simplest thing is to say watch this. space. well the uk is bolstering its defence in that area in the red sea. >> hms richmond, a type 23 frigate, is en route to the red sea as we speak to help reinforce hms lancaster and other type 23 frigate and hms diamond , and who are out there diamond, and who are out there at the moment. >> but mark, it's impossible to overstate how important the red sea shipping route is, how important the suez canal is. we can all remember how many goods were obstructed just for a couple of days when the ever given blocked the suez canal in march 2021. if ships have to reroute and can't go through the suez canal, have to go all the way around africa to get from the far to east the uk and europe , that has significant europe, that has significant cost of living effects for people living in this country. yeah yeah it does. >> i mean, it's a key route, as

you say, transit route from asia to the west through the suez canal there. and if they have to go around africa, the horn of africa, then it adds about ten days to the trip on average. and that then has the potential net consequence of increasing prices as, uh, you've got the likes of oil prices and gas prices that will increase. you've also got supermarket prices that will be affected by this as well. and then there's the issue , of then there's the issue, of course, of a wider conflict in that region . you've got what's that region. you've got what's happening out of yemen. they say , in support of palestinians in gaza. but you've also got what hezbollah are doing in the south of lebanon , uh, targeting israel of lebanon, uh, targeting israel . uh, you've got also , uh, iran . uh, you've got also, uh, iran backed groups in iraq and in syria . uh, so all the while,

syria. uh, so all the while, real concern about the potential for this conflict widening. and that's why , um, we've got antony that's why, um, we've got antony blinken, the us secretary of state on a visit to the region at the moment and a big part of thatis at the moment and a big part of that is trying to look for a way forward and looking for some kind of, uh, route that allows a de—escalation in gaza. and the hope being that a de—escalation of israel's military operation in gaza , gaza will then reduce in gaza, gaza will then reduce the tensions. but you're not going to get israel . so going to get israel. so de—escalating in gaza until they believe that the job is done in terms of completely , uh, terms of completely, uh, eradicating the threat from hamas, which they certainly haven't done at the moment. and this un security council vote that's happening later today. >> marc, how significant is it? will it have any effect in reality? >> i don't think so. not really.

as far as the houthi rebels in yemen are concerned, they'll continue to, uh, to do what they do. you know, with the tacit backing of, uh, iran. so so, um, so they'll continue to i think the next big, big, uh, question mark really is what this coalition of about a dozen countries, including the us and the uk, do . so far, it's just the uk, do. so far, it's just been , uh, defensive , um, been, uh, defensive, um, engagement with the drones and the missiles that are being fired from these, uh, houthi rebels will they now, after more than a week of warnings , uh, than a week of warnings, uh, because there was a specific threat from the us and the uk just over a week ago, uh, saying that if the houthis continue , that if the houthis continue, dude, with their hostile actions, then they risk military engagement. uh, from , um, the, engagement. uh, from, um, the, these western coalition powers.

so i guess we're looking to see what the next step will be. there was a warning again from grant shapps today, but no signage yet of any impending military action. >> well, mark, thank you so much for bringing us all the latest around that concerning situation, a situation that the royal navy has now engaged with. uh, well, rishi sunak. royal navy has now engaged with. uh, well, rishi sunak . announced uh, well, rishi sunak. announced in the last hour new legislation to exonerate post office victims as the prime minister uh, said that people wrongly convicted in the horizon scandal are swiftly exonerated and compensated. he stressed the importance of that, as he called the scandal of one. he called the scandal one of the greatest miscarriages of justice in our nation's history. >> now it all comes as the former post office boss, paula vennells, bowed to huge public pressure. that 1.2 million plus signature petition to give up her cbe yesterday. but she is

also facing calls to return some £3 million in bonuses as well. >> joining us now is vijay parekh, a victim of the post office scandal. and vijay, thank you for making the time for us. first of all, uh , your reaction first of all, uh, your reaction to this announcement of a new law of a blanket exoneration. and for those that were convicted , automatic convicted, automatic compensation starts now at £600,000. >> yeah . um, £600,000. >> yeah. um, glad £600,000. >> yeah . um, glad that they've >> yeah. um, glad that they've announced it, but it's, uh, of this, uh, law . but that £600,000 this, uh, law. but that £600,000 they're talking about is not a it's just the, uh , if you don't it's just the, uh, if you don't want to go through the process of , uh, you know, want to go through the process of, uh, you know, going through all your losses, etc, and that's where the £600,000 they're talking about. and that's the max they would give . but there's max they would give. but there's people who have lost more than

just £600,000. their livelihood , just £600,000. their livelihood, etc. that is going to take time . etc. that is going to take time. >> and vijay, i think it's important to explain , if you important to explain, if you wouldn't mind, to our viewers and listeners, what happened to you and how much money you think you and how much money you think you have lost over the years . i you have lost over the years. i was coming to court, uh , the was coming to court, uh, the rough calculation is going . to rough calculation is going. to seven figures. >> wow . >> wow. >> wow. >> just remember your name. >> just remember your name. >> so that's an extra ordinary amount of money. vijay but i suppose it's not just the monetary sum , the fiscal sum. monetary sum, the fiscal sum. it's also the human toll. could you tell us a bit about the effect that this scandal has had on you, your your life , your on you, your your life, your family, your business? >> well, uh , for me, i've, uh, >> well, uh, for me, i've, uh, lost everything as i was saying on the, uh, building mortgage, the house to the as much as i

can, but had to move out to the area at the dignity i had in that area . and the whole family, that area. and the whole family, they had is gone from all this scandal. now now i'm in a different area, but it's going to take time to recover from this . this. >> of course it is. and you must be, you know, very, very traumatised. vijay as well. and just rewinding a little bit, what were you charged and convicted of ? convicted of? >> uh, charged , uh, theft ? uh, >> uh, charged, uh, theft? uh, and given 18 months, but that was spend six years in prison. >> vijay . >> vijay. >> vijay. >> yes, i did . >> yes, i did. >> yes, i did. >> and how was that? those months that you had to spend in jail behind bars , convicted of jail behind bars, convicted of something that you simply did not do ? not do? >> horrifying. because, uh , of >> horrifying. because, uh, of the amount of people are there and you don't know what they

have done , who you're with, and have done, who you're with, and what situation they've been put into prison for. and you, just like a criminal with them at the same time. um it's horrific. >> words can't begin to describe what that must have been like. uh, but for you, does today's announcement in parliament start to put an end to this ordeal, this ordeal that's lasted now for, for some people, two decades? uh or is there more that you'd like to see the government do ? government do? >> quicken up the process of giving the compensation to everyone concerned ? because it's everyone concerned? because it's just taking too long for people to get compensated and even after you put your application in, it's going to take longer because it's doesn't finish until august. because it's doesn't finish until august . this horizon until august. this horizon inquiry three um, and when is after the inquiry? they start making the, uh , amount, you know

making the, uh, amount, you know , tallying up . that's uh, going , tallying up. that's uh, going to cause even longer delays after august . after august. >> and what what would it take? a no doubt it's more than money for you to find some sort of, um, well, to find some sort of justice, it will need more than money, won't it? what else do you want to see happen here? >> all the people who are involved in this get the same treatment we have had all this , treatment we have had all this, uh, convicted , uh, postmasters uh, convicted, uh, postmasters and let them feel how we felt. >> would you like to see people imprisoned? vijay for what has happened ? happened? >> yes. i mean , we've done >> yes. i mean, we've done nothing, and we've been imprisoned. they have done something. so they need to be imprisoned for the reason. what they've done . um

they've done. um >> well, vijay, thank you so much for talking us through and going over again that that horrific experience that you have faced . and i hope that have faced. and i hope that today has offered a start of some solace and some compensation for you. >> thank you very much, vijay parekh there, a victim of the post office scandal. >> how do you ever get past the fact that you were jailed for 18 months, knowing that you'd done absolutely nothing wrong? i don't know how to move out of your area. >> the sort of the difference in how people treat you in your own local area. well, you become a pariah, don't you? >> your own community. >> in your own community. >> in your own community. >> well, coming up, we'll be joined by panel to dig joined by our panel to dig deeper horizon. it deeper into this horizon. it scandal, prime minister scandal, as the prime minister has pledged compensation. but before that, it's your headlines with sam . with sam. >> tom, pip. thank you very much. good afternoon . from the much. good afternoon. from the gb newsroom, i'm sam francis. the headlines at just after half

past one. well our top story this hour. the government is offering an upfront payment of £75,000, which will be made available to hundreds of post office staff. as we've been heanng office staff. as we've been hearing more than 700 subpostmasters were jailed , subpostmasters were jailed, bankrupted or imprisoned as part of a flawed computer system error. postal service minister kevin hollinrake says an exceptional step of introducing new legislation is also needed to make sure that victims get the justice they deserve . the justice they deserve. >> i intend to bring forward legislation as soon as we can to overturn the convictions of all those convicted in england or wales on the basis of post office evidence given during the honzon office evidence given during the horizon scandal . the government horizon scandal. the government will, in the coming days, consider whether to include the small number of cases that have already been considered by the appeal court and the convictions upheld . upheld. >> meanwhile, the defence secretary says the uk has helped to repel the largest ever attack

by iranian backed houthi rebels in the red sea. overnight, hms diamond, along with the us, successfully destroyed multiple attack drones . no crew on that attack drones. no crew on that warship have been injured and they haven't suffered any damage, grant shapps says . the damage, grant shapps says. the attacks are completely unacceptable and warned there will be consequences as the yemeni militants have been targeting ships in support of hamas . a nottinghamshire police hamas. a nottinghamshire police constable is under criminal investigation for possible driving offences following the death of an eight old, death of an eight year old, a retired photographer, trevor bartlett, was hit by a police van on a pedestrian crossing in nottingham december . the nottingham in december. the constable, who was driving the van, has been accused of causing death by dangerous, and death by dangerous, careless and inconsiderate driving. the officer has also been served with a gross misconduct notice for potential breaches of police standards for professional behaviour. the estimated cost of building hs2 between london and birmingham has soared to as much

as £66.6 billion, the chairman of the project, sir john thompson, told mps the increase is due to the original budgets being too low. changes to the scope of the project, poor delivery and inflation. in 2013, hs2 was estimated . to cost 37.5 hs2 was estimated. to cost 37.5 billion for the entire planned network that had included the now scrapped sections from birmingham to manchester and leeds , and as ever, you can get leeds, and as ever, you can get more on all of those stories by visiting our website, gbnews.com i >> -- >> fora >> for a valuable legacy, your family can own gold coins will always shine bright. rosalind gold proudly sponsors the gb news financial report , and news financial report, and here's a look at the markets this afternoon. >> the pound will buy you $1.2733 and ,1.1629. the price of gold is £1,596, and £0.95 per

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isabel monday to thursdays from . isabel monday to thursdays from. six till 930. >> pretty good afternoon britain. it's 20 minutes to two and we're discussing the enormous story that has broken

in the last hour and a half. the announcement of emergency legislation to exonerate hundreds of wrongly convicted postmasters . postmasters. >> of course, we want your views and thoughts on this, alan. good afternoon. you say how can we be sure that people guilty of being involved in these cases don't get to use post office lawyers or legal aid to defend themselves ? themselves? >> and that's always been a risk that amongst the hundreds of innocent people, might be innocent people, there might be 1 or 2 people that are getting exonerated despite having done wrong, marion says that i earnestly hope that the families of postmasters that have died because of this injustice and are now proved innocent , will be are now proved innocent, will be included in today's decision . absolutely. >> i'm sure many people endorse that. marion anthony says it's clear that the government intends to claw back the compensation from those who were to blame. but what will be the source of the compensation ? source of the compensation? pubuc source of the compensation? public money, presumably either directly or indirectly , and directly or indirectly, and there's no such thing as public

money, only taxpayers money. and howard, uh, well, he's having a p0p howard, uh, well, he's having a pop at us journalists saying, where were all you journalists while this was going on for 20 years? well i actually addressed this yesterday on the show and i said, i think we are all accountable. i think public, the media, the government, i think we're all guilty of not asking searching enough questions and not being persistent and not making a big enough noise about all this. quite frankly, although from 2019 we did see a good number of interventions, particularly from local mps, but also from journalists, every newspaper and every tv channel has covered this cut through. it didn't gather momentum . um, and didn't gather momentum. um, and even you say 2019, this happened a good few years before that. that's certainly true. >> that's certainly true. should we widen discussion out we widen this discussion out now? us on the sofas are now? joining us on the sofas are the journalist and author michael the former michael crick and the former labour minister, denis macshane. michael why did it take this long to have a blanket

exoneration? and is a blanket exoneration? and is a blanket exoneration really the right path? >> well, why did it take so i'm not sure i can answer that question about why it took so long. >> i remember reading private eye fortnight after fortnight after fortnight in the early teens ten years ago. um, and it had the scandal already been going for a long time even then and thinking why, why, why is this going on? >> why is nobody in government ? >> why is nobody in government? there are people in whitehall never the back pages of never read the back pages of private eye. know the prince, private eye. i know the prince, very but i mean and very small, but i mean and there's nobody sort of saying to there's nobody sort of saying to the minister, isn't there something badly wrong going here? maybe journalists here? and maybe journalists thought it was complicated. it isn't actually that complicated a itv have shown last a story, as itv have shown last week in their absolutely brilliant . i mean, there brilliant drama. i mean, there are much more complicated scandal this, like scandal stories than this, like the scandal, is an the libor scandal, which is an even just as big, in my view, about libor city traders who went to jail totally unjustifiably . um, but so unjustifiably. um, but so i think , uh, it's just everybody

think, uh, it's just everybody is at fault in this, including including myself. actually, i should have said when i was reading all this private eye stuff, i should be going to channel 4 news or newsnight wherever i was at the time. and, and, you kicking up a fuss and, you know, kicking up a fuss and, you know, kicking up a fuss and we should doing this , and say we should be doing this, but was political but because i was a political journalist, i just felt i couldn't three weeks off to couldn't take three weeks off to do a story wasn't really on do a story that wasn't really on my well, it my patch. and i felt, well, it was private story might be was private eye's story might be accused of stealing their story , accused of stealing their story, but everybody should have kicked up course, up a fuss. and of course, there were goodies this . i were some goodies in this. i mean, like james mean, people like james arbuthnot, farron , you arbuthnot, um, tim farron, you know, david davis, priti patel , know, david davis, priti patel, zahawi. yeah, even him, even him, even even though he's got stuff in his background that he, he had the honour of playing himself in that television . i himself in that television. i thought that was actually a bit tawdry. personally >> dodi should we widen this, um, to you, do you think there was an element that a lot of people in politics thought, oh, this do with computers? this is to do with computers? i don't quite understand it. >> classic example of >> it's a classic example of what in the 19th century has called the thing. >> the thing that runs britain,

the factual word today is the blob . and this was an example of blob. and this was an example of how the blob covers up for itself, just judges didn't do anything great journalists are michael crick didn't do anything wrong. ex—mps like me did absolutely be all, uh, acting mps didn't do much. it was a bit complicated. it wasn't suddenly going to prison for wrongfully accused of killing someone. it was a few thousands of pounds. but that's very lot. they're not well off. people come. we know subpostmasters and it's to the shame of britain that our politics cannot deal with what i hate to use the word, the ordinary man and woman, but the slightly below the exciting level of political problems and no justice was done . no justice was done. >> michael, far be it for me to sound cynical, but is there any significance in the fact that we are in an election year? yes we've had the itv drama, but we're in an election year and

suddenly we've got, oh, we can do this emergency legislation. >> i think there is an element. yeah, i think if there hadn't been the urgency about it and the government wanted to clear the government wanted to clear the decks , as it were, for, you the decks, as it were, for, you know, just in case they think it's idea to go for an it's a good idea to go for an election in may, which personally would be personally i think would be bonkers suicidal. but uh, bonkers and suicidal. but uh, they to get these things they want to get these things out and drama , out of the way. and that drama, i mean, i can't think of a drama as powerful that since. since as powerful as that since. since cathy come home, which was well before either of you were born. from 1960s, from dennis's time in the 1960s, about the appalling housing crisis the way it's affected crisis and the way it's affected pubuc crisis and the way it's affected public opinion, even though the number was only about number of viewers was only about 4 million. i think night it's 4 million. i think at night it's everybody's about it . is everybody's talking about it. is it more than that now? 9 million? seven? 7 million or certainly. they're certainly. or maybe they're catching know, everybody's certainly. or maybe they're cathcatching know, everybody's certainly. or maybe they're cathcatching upiow, everybody's certainly. or maybe they're cathcatching up and, everybody's certainly. or maybe they're cathcatching up and, um, body's certainly. or maybe they're cathcatching up and, um, it»dy's certainly. or maybe they're cathcatching up and, um, it is 's now catching up and, um, it is you know, and it's again and every day the papers have got more than they had the previous day. it's amazing the way these stories so stories taken off so much injustice. so much. and the way injustice. so much. and the way in which watching those programmes, your blood boiled in which watching those progyou've s, your blood boiled in which watching those progyou've got. ur blood boiled

in which watching those progyou've got. and.ood boiled in which watching those progyou've got. and then)oiled in which watching those progyou've got. and then theni and you've got. and then then there were emotional moments when got and when they all got together and you know, tears just you know, i was in tears just seeing all, clubbing seeing them all, all clubbing together actually doing together and actually doing something it. so i think, something about it. so i think, but the politics of it, yes. if there was an election, the election wasn't going to be for another three years. there would be another wouldn't be another inquiry, wouldn't there ? they it. there? and they delay it. >> well, it's is interesting, isn't it, that that knew isn't it, that that that we knew that definitive that this was definitive a scandal in 2019. that's when the ruling came out that the computer had messed up . uh, and computer had messed up. uh, and we can talk about the 20 years before that till the cows come home. but at that point, really, there should have been swift action. and there, there just wasn't. with five years on from that ruling now, i mean, i think one of the problems is that the turnover of ministers in government , and if turnover of ministers in government, and if you'd had somebody who'd been postal affairs minister, say, for five years, instead of 18 months or two which is the sort of two years, which is the sort of the general maybe the general ration, maybe somebody would have got more of a grip on this. >> somebody in downing >> and somebody in downing street should have got grip on street should have got a grip on it. the trouble, of course,

it. but the trouble, of course, is were with is that they were coping with huge, large, immediate problems like brexit. and of course, like brexit. and then of course, covid and they're actually go in and actually i also and say, well, actually i also think need to deal the think we need to deal with the subpostmasters. think we need to deal with the subposno, |sters. think we need to deal with the subpos no, |sters. well going, no, okay, well we can leave that one. and anyway, this inquiry whatever hasn't, inquiry or that whatever hasn't, hasn't to hasn't reported yet. but as to whether question whether your question about whether your question about whether way, whether it's right, by the way, to exonerate everybody, i think it is right. you ask that the it is right. you ask that at the beginning because you can't start messing around saying, well guy actually well, this guy here may actually have stolen money. really? there are i mean, the criminal justice system is full of examples, full of places and cases where people get the benefit of the doubt and they are not prosecuted or they're they're acquitted and in this case, i think you've got to acquit them all. uh, even if it does involve 1 or 2 wrong'uns. >> well, i think the post office minister it's not minister has said it's not foolproof, but is proportionate. >> well, there's a very famous legal dictum, better. that one guilty man goes free, or ten guilty man goes free, or ten guilty men go free, than one innocent man goes to prison . and

innocent man goes to prison. and that, i think, applies here. but another aspect of it, look at the people who are appointed as ceos of fujitsu or chairman , all ceos of fujitsu or chairman, all politically connected people . so politically connected people. so this is the way the political class of blob, particularly since 2010, just bungs nice chairmanships and positions to its friends and its family members. >> well, the education secretary, gillian keegan's husband , held a position at husband, held a position at fujitsu , and there are others. fujitsu, and there are others. >> i'm not saying he knew nothing about this. >> no , absolutely. >> no, absolutely. >> no, absolutely. >> he denies any wrongdoing, which seems a bit odd to me, but l, which seems a bit odd to me, but i, i suppose that the, the, the, the service fujitsu applied to the service fujitsu applied to the post office in the 90s is probably quite a small part of that business's own overrule. >> uh, well , that's because >> uh, well, that's because they've got so many other government contracts . government contracts. >> that is very the focus is now i don't me that i mean, don't tell me that a politically ambitious family and it's a very rising, successful political couple there. >> and i'm not getting into it because her labour people involved . well, they

involved as well. well, they don't read private eye , they don't read private eye, they don't read private eye, they don't read private eye, they don't read the papers. come on. i mean, i can't believe there wasn't a single breakfast in that particular household where the missus said to the hubby, uh , danny, are you going into work today? have a sniff around about fujitsu and the post office, will you? >> it does seem extraordinary that there are certain positions that there are certain positions that trinkets that almost guarantee trinkets and medals. simply for having held the position . paula held the position. paula vennells got her cbe now handed back, of course, although i'm given to understand you, she's returning . hand it back. returning. hand it back. >> but unless the monarch says no, it's only the king that can decide that basically she still haswell, she post it back if >> well, she can post it back if she wants, but, um, but paula vennells was she seemed to have done something amazing at the time. or was this an automatic honour? just by holding a big pubuc honour? just by holding a big public position? >> and also, that in the >> and also, who's that in the picture paula vennells picture with paula vennells as well ? um, picture with paula vennells as well? um, there's all these people that are in these pictures with her that i think are connected or part of the

post office, and that she's become a bit of a scapegoat and she's become a bit a she's become a bit of a scapegoat. >> the people, i think, also deserve focus. first deserve some focus. well, first of think sunak should of all, i think the sunak should insist that the ceo of fujitsu worldwide come to london and explain himself and explain why the government should carry on giving fujitsu any contracts whatsoever. for a start , and whatsoever. for a start, and then and demand and how much he's going to contribute his company is going to contribute to the compensation. but second, i think the focus should be also on the non—executive directors of this company. some of whom are distinguished people are quite distinguished people and, um, non—executive directors are independent people from outside and put in there by the government to keep an eye on the company on the on the post office, not fujitsu , the post office, not fujitsu, the post office. were they asking did they not read private eye? did they not read private eye? did they not read private eye? did they not go to board meetings and say, look, these articles week after week after week in private eye? >> surely you know what ian hislop's going to be very happy about the publicity. he's getting afternoon.

getting this afternoon. >> because they, >> rightly too, because they, you deserve really you know, they deserve really good this good company medals for this computer there computer weekly got there slightly before, i think, but it took five years. but took them about five years. but i the drama fewer people i suppose the drama fewer people sitting cabinet table sitting around the cabinet table or non—executive or indeed the non—executive director the of the director table of the of the post probably post office probably read computer , i would computer weekly, i would imagine. but private eye and somebody should be pointing it out them. um and you know, out to them. um and you know, i think applies to a lot of think this applies to a lot of the scandals that go on, you know, of, know, in the health service of, for we're getting know, in the health service of, for afterne're getting know, in the health service of, for after scandaltting know, in the health service of, for after scandal after scandal after scandal after scandal after scandal after scandal . what are scandal. what are the non—executive directors those non—executive directors of those trusts did they have an trusts doing? did they have an inkung trusts doing? did they have an inkling scandal going on, inkling of the scandal going on, or ask the right or did they not ask the right questions? um, there's there are ways in which this can all be improved, and governance can be improved. let's that to dennis. >> what should we learn from this ? how can actually this? how can we actually improve the structure how improve the structure of how things are done in this country, so that we don't get appalling scandals like this? and feels scandals like this? and it feels like had many of these like we've had so many of these scandals. in the last 20, 30 scandals. uh in the last 20, 30 years, personally , i would say years, personally, i would say you must devolve down to a lower

level. >> a lot of the sort of supervision of these bodies, because in the local areas, they will know what's going on. but the sitting in glass the guy sitting in a glass skyscraper city hasn't skyscraper in the city hasn't the faintest uh in the faintest idea. uh in general, a much better press . i general, a much better press. i contrast the literally the more bland qabbani , more bland bland qabbani, more bland mountain high articles on on on people arriving on little rubber boats, a tiny number that have obsessed us for the last 2 or 3 years. and we've done terminal damage almost to many ministers, to mr sunak and the tiny amount of coverage for this, which is a genuine human scandal involving british citizens . and it's when british citizens. and it's when you hear what how their lives have been impacted. >> it's not just that the prison sentence , it's the their sentence, it's the their livelihoods are absolutely destroyed. i mean, the gentleman we were just talking to a few minutes ago reckons he's lost what he said. seven figures,

seven figures he had to move out of the area prison, down the street without people. >> i mean postmasters, kids being bullied at school, their kids because these people kids being because these people subpostmasters pillars of subpostmasters are pillars of the are known by the community, are known by everybody looked up to by everybody looked up to by everybody and they've had to take their children out of schools move school and all schools and move school and all dreadful things happen , which is dreadful things happen, which is unquantifiable in financial terms. i think the other thing that we need to put even more thought into in this country is how we it, how we take how we make it, how we take whistleblowers more seriously and how we make the mechanism. because whistleblowers don't often because often come forwards because often come forwards because often they end up losing their jobs or having reprisals against them . and there must have been them. and there must have been people inside the post office and fujitsu who could have come forward and didn't. >> well, we'll be talking more about hour. about this in the next hour. michael denis macshane, michael crick denis macshane, thanks joining us here on michael crick denis macshane, tha|sofas. joining us here on michael crick denis macshane, tha|sofas. muchg us here on michael crick denis macshane, tha|sofas. much more1ere on michael crick denis macshane, tha|sofas. much more1er1come michael crick denis macshane, tha|son.;. much more1er1come michael crick denis macshane, tha|son. goodzh more1er1come michael crick denis macshane, tha|son. good afternoonwcome here on. good afternoon britain. that's after this . that's after this. >> it looks like things are heating up. boxt boiler as

sponsors of whether on gb news . sponsors of whether on gb news. >> hi there. it's aidan magee here from the met office with the gb news forecast dry for many of us today. sunniest in the south, a lot of cloud elsewhere and it will continue to feel cold, especially in the south where we've got this easterly wind at and cold air imported from the continent. further north, lighter winds with high pressure nearby , but a with high pressure nearby, but a lot of cloud coming into northern and eastern scotland. southern scotland as well northern and eastern england . northern and eastern england. and here there will be some showers, rain at lower levels, some snow over the hills but mostly these showers are light. 1 or 2 showers for wales as well, but otherwise western scotland, southern and south—east england seeing the best any sunshine and best of any sunshine and wherever are it will feel wherever you are it will feel cold. five six celsius at best. some places staying at 1 to 3 celsius with that biting in wind from the east affecting southern areas. and we'll continue to see that overnight . clear skies in

that overnight. clear skies in the south leading to a widespread frost once again, temperatures dipping to minus one minus celsius fairly one or minus two celsius fairly widely. western scotland also seeing a touch of frost because of clear skies here. but elsewhere, where we've got the cloud , well, it's to stay cloud, well, it's going to stay frost free across parts of east wales into northern and eastern england, eastern scotland as well fewer showers around on thursday. in fact , after1 or thursday. in fact, after 1 or 2 showers, first thing mostly becomes dry by the afternoon. increasing amounts of sunshine across much of scotland and less sunshine. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boiler as sponsors of

>> good afternoon britain . it's >> good afternoon britain. it's 2:00 on wednesday the 10th of january. justice at last the prime minister announces a new law will swiftly exonerate and compensate hundreds of postmasters wrongly convicted in britain's greatest miscarriage of justice. >> but how soon will it come? mr >> but how soon will it come? mr >> to nobody. the labour leader accuses rishi sunak of flip flopping over the government's rwanda plan ahead of next week's dramatic showdown. the prime minister hit back, accusing sir keir of priority missing people smugglers ahead of the british people. we'll speak to a tory mp and the arctic blast beds in

this cold weather is not over yet. >> more snow, frost and freezing temperatures are expected into next week with the met office warning of wintry hazards ahead. now we were mentioning of course, we've mentioned ad nauseam , paula vennells, the nauseam, paula vennells, the former boss of the post office, who of course handed back the ceo, but who's the chap next to her? yes we have been asking this question because we've shown this picture so much. that is tim parker, multi—millionaire former chairman of the post office, who resigned a week before the inquiry into the honzon before the inquiry into the horizon scandal opened. and i think it's important to mention, because every time we see that photograph, we talk about paula vennells. but there are so many questions to be asked of other people, too. >> indeed, people who might have

conveniently resigned and at particularly convenient . particularly convenient. moments. this scandal goes on and on, and we'll be getting to all of that. rwanda and indeed the weather. but all of that is to come after your latest headunes to come after your latest headlines with sam . headlines with sam. >> tom, thank you very much. good afternoon from the gb newsroom . the headlines at two. newsroom. the headlines at two. well our top story this hour. the post office workers caught in the horizon. it scandal will have their convictions overturned just by signing one document postal services minister kevin hollinrake says the new emergency legislation may take some weeks to deliver , may take some weeks to deliver, but he insists it is a priority for the government. we're heanng for the government. we're hearing there'll also be an up front payment of £75,000 to compensate the subpostmasters , compensate the subpostmasters, who were jailed or bankrupted as a result of the flawed. it computer software. mr hollinrake says the victims will get the

justice they deserve . justice they deserve. >> i intend to bring forward legislation as soon as we can to overturn the convictions of all those convicted in england or wales on the basis of post office evidence given during the honzon office evidence given during the horizon scandal . the government horizon scandal. the government will, in the coming days, consider whether to include the small number of cases that have already been considered by the appeal court and the convictions upheld . upheld. >> well . meanwhile, the labour >> well. meanwhile, the labour leader, sir keir starmer, has said that rishi sunak has been caught red handed opposing his own rwanda plan . it comes as the own rwanda plan. it comes as the prime minister is braced for a common showdown over his flagship scheme, after being warned by some conservative mps that it won't work unless it's significantly strengthened dunng significantly strengthened during the first prime minister's questions of 2024, keir starmer referenced reports that rishi sunak wanted to scale back the government's rwanda scheme when he was chancellor . scheme when he was chancellor. >> £400 million of taxpayer money down the drain. no one

sent to rwanda small boats still coming. it's hardly a surprise , coming. it's hardly a surprise, guys. he wanted to scrap the scheme when he was trying to sneak in as tory leader , but sneak in as tory leader, but he's been caught red handed opposing the very thing that he's now made . opposing the very thing that he's now made. his opposing the very thing that he's now made . his flagship he's now made. his flagship policy. yes which member should we listen to? the one before us today , or the one who used to today, or the one who used to believe in something? >> well, in response, the prime minister accused labour of being against any deterrent . you do against any deterrent. you do need to have an effective deterrence to finally solve this problem. >> in fact, the national crime agency agree that you need , in agency agree that you need, in their words, an effective removals and deterrence agreement. and that's why , after agreement. and that's why, after becoming prime minister, i negotiated a new with negotiated a new deal with albania. thanks to which we have seen a 93% drop in illegal arrivals from albania. that's how australia stopped the boats. that's why italy, germany and austria are all looking at similar schemes. he's the only one who's opposed to a proper

deterrent. >> well , today we've learned >> well, today we've learned that the uk has helped to repel the largest ever attack by iranian backed houthi rebels in the red sea. overnight, hms diamond, along with the us, successfully destroyed multiple attack drones . no crew on that attack drones. no crew on that warship have been injured and they haven't suffered any damage. the justice defence secretary, rather grant shapps, says the attacks are completely unacceptable and he's warned there will be consequences as there will be consequences as the yemeni militants have been targeting ships in the region in support of hamas in its war with israel. here in the uk, half of child sexual abuse cases reported to police in 2022 were crimes committed by children . crimes committed by children. that's according to data gathered by police in england and wales . gathered by police in england and wales. half of the gathered by police in england and wales . half of the offences and wales. half of the offences involved a child aged 10 to 17, as either a suspect or perpetrator in what the force called a growing and concerning trend. the figures are up from a third in 2013. the estimated

cost of building hs2 between london and birmingham has soared to as much as £66.6 billion. the chairman of the project, sir john thompson, told mps the increase is due to original budgets being too low and changes to the scope of the project . poor delivery and project. poor delivery and inflation. in 2013, hs2 was estimated to cost 37.5 billion. that was for the entire planned network, including the now scrapped sections from birmingham to manchester and leeds. birmingham to manchester and leeds . well, the world's first leeds. well, the world's first ever pothole preventing robot is set to hit the roads in hertfordshire after a successful test rollout . the machines are test rollout. the machines are called eris. prevent and can identify and classify potholes using artificial intelligence. it can then automatically fill in the holes to keep out water, which would otherwise seep through the surface, causing more damage . if successful, the more damage. if successful, the machine could save time and money to identify potholes and reduce the disruption they caused to motorists and the

princess royal has been welcomed to sri lanka with a traditional dance display. princess anne is visiting south asia with her husband to mark, 75 years of diplomatic relations with the country during the three day visit, the princess will meet the country's president and first lady, and she will also undertake engagements and meet local communities and faith groups in the capital, colombo . groups in the capital, colombo. that's the latest from the gb newsroom. for more, we're on tv, digital radio and on our smart speaken digital radio and on our smart speaker. your smart speaker. rather just say play gb news now though, it's back to tom and . pip. >> good afternoon britain. it's 2:07 and will be returning to our lead story on the horizon. it scandal as sunak says new legislation will be introduced to exonerate victims. but first, let's talk about another issue covered during prime minister's

questions, which is of course , questions, which is of course, sunak's flagship. rwanda bill, due to be debated next week for two days in the house of commons as well. >> joining us now is conservative mp for stoke on trent north, jonathan gullies. good afternoon to you jonathan. uh so keir starmer uh really went for rishi sunak at pmqs over this rwanda scheme , calling over this rwanda scheme, calling him mr nobody who is scared of his own mps. is rishi sunak scared of you ? i think sir keir scared of you? i think sir keir starmer was actually busy talking about himself. >> and as for the idea of flip flopping, i couldn't believe the irony when heard that this irony when i heard that this is sir , the man who sir keir starmer, the man who campaigned on ten to be campaigned on ten pledges to be leader labour party, then leader of the labour party, then ditched every single one of them since the since becoming that leader. the man corbyn a man who called jeremy corbyn a friend now trying friend who's now trying to pretend never were a pretend that they never were a man that was man who has said that he was surrender our borders to his buddies move it buddies in brussels and move it to mediterranean . allow to the mediterranean. allow 100,000 illegal migrants 100,000 plus illegal migrants who to the through the

who have come to the through the mediterranean into the uk, putting pressure on school putting more pressure on school places pressure nhs places, more pressure on the nhs and cost even more to put people in. even more people in hotels that man is a charlatan and that man is clearly just saying things try and grab man is clearly just saying ticheap try and grab man is clearly just saying ticheap headline.try and grab man is clearly just saying ticheap headline. the nd grab man is clearly just saying ticheap headline. the prime b a cheap headline. the prime minister working minister has been working diligently sure that we diligently to make sure that we do everything can stop the do everything we can to stop the boats, and has had huge success with the albanian 93% with the albanian scheme and 93% drop albanians, we've seen drop in albanians, we've seen a drop in albanians, we've seen a drop of third actual drop of a third of actual arrivals over 2023. of arrivals over 2023. but of course want make sure that course i want to make sure that this important piece of legislation we legislation does work. we suggested that legislation does work. we sugthinkd that legislation does work. we sugthink are that legislation does work. we sugthink are within that legislation does work. we sugthink are within scope that legislation does work. we sugthink are within scope of that legislation does work. we sugthink are within scope of the at we think are within scope of the red lines the prime minister laid. that will mean the rwandan government away from government won't run away from the will be within the the deal that will be within the scope of international law and the can deliver on that the means we can deliver on that important pledge to stop the boats. conservative party is boats. the conservative party is the party in parliament the only party in parliament thatis the only party in parliament that is serious about stopping them jonathan, true them now, jonathan, it's true that starmer had, of that sir keir starmer had, of course, abandoned those ten pledges on which he stood to be leader. >> but you mentioned there a number 100,000 migrants, the labour party, very much strong ,

labour party, very much strong, deny that that is their policy. it seems to be a number that conservative campaign headquarters has come up with. the labour party has never committed to a number of illegal migrants. it would want to take in. torfaen i'm talking about the comments that sir keir starmer gave as he was touring round europe with his best buddy yvette cooper, who, as know yvette cooper, who, as we know is very keen to see small boats arrivals. >> when holding up a >> when she was holding up a sign refugees welcome, sign saying refugees welcome, this is the reality of what we're here, he was we're facing here, that he was willing a deal in an eu willing to do a deal in an eu quota, sharing that quota, sharing scheme. that means as part of means we would have, as part of that to take people into that deal, to take people into this other parts of this country from other parts of europe on europe who have arrived on european illegally . those european shores illegally. those are just facts that sir keir starmer can't run from. and starmer can't run away from. and ultimately, making ultimately, what we're making very that it's the very clear is that it's the conservative party who, as say very clear is that it's the cwith rvative party who, as say very clear is that it's the cwith workingarty who, as say very clear is that it's the cwith working with nho, as say very clear is that it's the cwith working with the as say very clear is that it's the cwith working with the french|y , with working with the french in part with obviously the albania with obviously albania deal with obviously this rwanda legislation are doing everything that they can. and i know this firsthand because the prime minister has worked with me that our me to make sure that one of our hotels in stoke on trent is one

of the first that will see it of the first 50 that will see it closed. that means that be closed. that means that we'll be able back to its able to get it back to its proper directly opposite our proper use directly opposite our railway station, a gateway to our city, as our great city, as well as obviously taking financial pressures local pressures off our local authority a particular time authority at a particular time when budgets are squeezed. this authority at a particular time withe budgets are squeezed. this authority at a particular time withe reality.. are squeezed. this authority at a particular time withe reality.. are as ueezed. this authority at a particular time withe reality.. are as iaezed. this authority at a particular time withe reality.. are as i say,i this is the reality. but as i say, the amendments that we've laid is the reality. but as i say, the arthinknents that we've laid is the reality. but as i say, the arthink it'sts that we've laid is the reality. but as i say, the arthink it's importantve laid and i think it's important to stress the two central stress that the two central tenants our amendments to tenants of our amendments are to make position to make it the default position to ignore these pyjama injunctions, these and to these rule 39 orders, and to stop the merry go round of individual claims by agreeing with minister with the prime minister that the rwanda is safe, saying that rwanda is safe, but saying that individual will not be individual rules will not be able claim that they able to claim that they personally not be in personally would not be safe in rwanda. about rwanda. and it's simply about whether is fit to whether or not someone is fit to fly. those fly. if we can get those amendments agreed by the government, we will get lots of people off the ground in the uk over deliver this over to rwanda, deliver this partnership, set the bar for the world and i'm sure we'll see many other safe third countries come wishing take many other safe third countries comiin wishing take many other safe third countries comiin the wishing take many other safe third countries comiin the scheme. ng take many other safe third countries comiin the scheme. but take many other safe third countries comiin the scheme. but the ke part in the scheme. but the reality is, is there's not going to that people who end to be that many people who end up going to rwanda on these flights. >> and what i also want to just ask you is if you're

unsuccessful in these amendments , how tempted are you to then side with labour to actually defeat the whole bill? >> so to your original question , >> so to your original question, if i may, at the first one, let's be honest, we are talking about scaling up how many people will be able to send to rwanda and again, the rest of the world is this rwanda is looking at this rwanda partnership, and there are deals to be done other safe third to be done with other safe third country parts the country in other parts of the world. can make this world. if we can make this scheme work. so no doubt world. if we can make this schewe'llork. so no doubt world. if we can make this schewe'll be so no doubt world. if we can make this schewe'll be able no doubt world. if we can make this schewe'll be able to no doubt world. if we can make this schewe'll be able to very) doubt that we'll be able to very quickly scale once we can quickly scale up once we can demonstrate doing in demonstrate what we're doing in terms vote, i'll be terms of how i'll vote, i'll be perfectly obviously, i'm perfectly frank. obviously, i'm working with working day and night now with my colleagues danny kruger, miriam excellent my colleagues danny kruger, miriam the excellent my colleagues danny kruger, miriam the exceliconservatives co—chairs, the new conservatives , as as, uh, simon clark , as well as, uh, simon clark and jenrick and suella and robert jenrick and suella braverman get the government braverman to get the government to adopt amendments. to adopt these amendments. and we're have over 30 we're delighted to have over 30 people we hope people so far sign it. we hope we'll names in the we'll see more names in the coming ahead, so that we coming days ahead, so that we can have really can show that we have a really big number, a big feeling on the backbenches conservative backbenches of the conservative party. then once those party. and then once those amendments, gone through

amendments, we've gone through committee stage, we've gone through stage, we see through report stage, we see what bill looks like by the what the bill looks like by the time third reading. time it comes to third reading. that when have to make that is when i will have to make a but only will a decision, but only then will i make decision i see make that decision when i see the bill in that state. >> so is there a chance you could side with labour to defeat the ultimately the whole bill? ultimately >> i'm making it very clear that i promise you all options are on the table i will wait to see the table and i will wait to see what the bill looks like as and when returns for third when it returns for third reading. gone through reading. once it's gone through the stage. the committee and report stage. >> is stark. just >> wow, that is stark. and just finally, jonathan gullies, are you at all concerned about what the government has said the rwanda government has said about this bill putting warnings , frankly, before members of parliament, that if the bill goes much further and becomes more ambiguous with regards to how it interacts with international obligations, the rwandan side of this could face pulling out of this deal altogether . is that pulling out of this deal altogether. is that a pulling out of this deal altogether . is that a concern altogether. is that a concern for you ? for you? >> well, you'll appreciate that. i was probably quite sceptical

when i heard this comment made, but of i want to make but of course i want to make sure we take that threat as sure that we take that threat as it to seem to others it may be seen to seem to others seriously. so what we've done in drafting these amendments is had legal lawyers help legal experts and lawyers help us that we have got us draft them, that we have got legal from high legal advice from a very high esteeming kc, a former attorney general of northern ireland, who has said that he believes that the amendments are within the scope of international law . they scope of international law. they are also, therefore not going to spook the rwandan government and because the arguments of around international law are there. but we're keen to also have this debate international debate about international law. to frank as well, to be perfectly frank as well, because mind , it should because to my mind, it should not be that international law supersedes the sovereignty of our parliament when to our parliament when it comes to the that as mps here the fact that we as mps are here to serve british people have to serve the british people have control of our borders, and as well as making sure that we have the security heart. the nation's security at heart. but think seeing but and i think we're seeing many nations across europe have that and that very same debate and discussion we're very discussion too. so we're very confident that is within discussion too. so we're very con' scope that is within discussion too. so we're very con' scope of it is within discussion too. so we're very con' scope of internationalin the scope of international law. it's minister's it's met the prime minister's red he's set for us. red lines that he's set for us. we hope that he can

we therefore hope that he can send rwandan send that to the rwandan government. the amendments that we've that are public to we've laid that are public to see views are on it see what their views are on it and that back us. but and feed that back to us. but ultimately, i believe they should will should adopt these. this will not will not harm that deal. and we will be i say, to get people be able, as i say, to get people off the ground as soon as possible. >> well, jonathan gullis, it's shaping impressive shaping up to be an impressive showdown look showdown next week. we look forward to seeing that debate , forward to seeing that debate, that on the green that healthy debate on the green benches. that healthy debate on the green benches . thank very much for benches. thank you very much for sharing your plans with us here on gb news . on gb news. >> now let's return to our top story. the horizon it scandal. after the prime minister announced within the last couple of hours a new law which will exonerate post office victims and quash their convictions, the prime minister said people wrongly convicted in the horizon scandal will be swiftly exonerated and compensating , exonerated and compensating, calling the scandal one of the greatest miscarriages of justice in our nation's history. it comes as the former post office boss, paula vennells , bows to

boss, paula vennells, bows to huge public pressure to give up her cbe. she is standing there with tim parker, who is former chairman of the post office . she chairman of the post office. she is now facing calls to return £3 million in bonuses as well . million in bonuses as well. >> let's cross to downing street and speak to our political correspondent katherine forster and catherine, break down precisely what the government has announced today. >> yes. so first of all, they are bringing forward legislation. it will be brought to parliament in the coming weeks and add twofold what it's going to do. first of all, it's going to do. first of all, it's going to do. first of all, it's going to quash these hundreds of wrongful convictions of subpostmasters and the other thing it's going to do is it's going to speed up the compensation process . now, the compensation process. now, the government have said that they hope that the intention all of the convictions to be quashed this year and in terms of compensation, those that have

been convicted looking at about £600,000 and the glo group, that's the group litigation orders cohort . that was the orders cohort. that was the group of postman eaters led by alan bates that really played such a crucial role in bringing this scandal to light. they didn't have convictions , but didn't have convictions, but they were still out of pockets and had terrible experiences . and had terrible experiences. they are to be given an upfront payment of £75,000 now. there has been some concern that there might be a tiny number of these postmasters that actually are guilty, and the government has said that they accept that possibility. they're going to ask people to sign a piece of paper , you know, pledging that paper, you know, pledging that they are that they haven't committed these these alleged crimes. and leaving the way open to possible charges at a later date. if it turns out that they are some postmasters had wanted , are some postmasters had wanted, um, their cases dealt with

individually, the government has simply said that that is not possible . they've been fighting possible. they've been fighting for justice for many years. this way it means that those convictions can finally be quashed. payments can finally be made. now in terms of who is going to pay the bill, that is not clear. but what is clear is the government have clearly said there's a public inquiry. if fujitsu , the providers of this fujitsu, the providers of this software tech, are ultimately found to be culpable, it sounds like the government is leaving the way open to pursue them, to pay the way open to pursue them, to pay the costs . pay the costs. >> well, catherine, thank you very much for talking us through what has been announced in a pretty extraordinary day in the house of commons. >> let's talk to a victim of the post office scandal . really post office scandal. really grateful to pauline stone house, who's going this afternoon ? who's going this afternoon? soon.thank who's going this afternoon? soon. thank you. pauline for your time. now from what i understand, you lost your home after being wrongfully convicted. just tell us what

happened. >> yeah, i was a suspended after an investigation in two thousand and seven. >> uh, convicted in 2008. uh, and the consequences of that was that i, uh, was made bankrupt, lost my business, uh, and made homeless with two children. like a really tough time that that you've had. >> but i suppose this is one of the, one of the worst things is how many people have gone through such similar experiences. what was your reaction in listening to the words of kevin hollinrake at the post office, minister announced , post office, minister announced, saying that finally there will be this this blanket exoneration i >> -- >> um,iwas >> um , i was surprised, but also >> um, i was surprised, but also really happy about it, uh, because because the more of us will get our convictions overturned, the better. >> and if this is a quicker way of doing it, uh, by doing it all in one go, then that will speed the process up. yes mhm.

>> and your conviction , as >> and your conviction, as i understand it, pauline was overturned in 2022. how much if any compensation have you had so far . far. >> it was overturned in 2021 actually. >> um november. um and as for compensation i haven't received all of it yet . all of it yet. >> i've received some, but not not the main part of it. no. >> um, are you at all concerned ? >> um, are you at all concerned? >> um, are you at all concerned? >> and with one of the concerns that people have been raising this week , particularly about this week, particularly about the measure of blanket, uh, exoneration when you, of course, had your case in individually looked at, exonerated, uh, under scrutiny. there is some concern that there might be by doing this blanket measure, as opposed to looking at cases individually as yours has been looked at. people might slip through the net and potentially there might be amongst the many hundreds of wrongfully accused people, some bad apples as.

>> yes, of course, that is that is potential for that to happen. uh, because not everybody is innocent , uh, because not everybody is innocent, um, or guilty. should i say , um, but i think that's a i say, um, but i think that's a risk that they've got to take. i think because the process otherwise will take so long individually that it's got to be donein individually that it's got to be done in a fairer way. >> uh, but i think kevin hollinrake said it was not foolproof , this, this new foolproof, this, this new system, but it was proportionate . will anything ever make up for .will anything ever make up for what you've gone through, pauune what you've gone through, pauline ? i mean, what impact has pauline? i mean, what impact has it had on your on your life , on it had on your on your life, on your health? >> uh, i don't think any amount of money or any amount of apologies or any amount of prosecutions that may come on the back of this , uh, to find the back of this, uh, to find out who's responsible . um, out who's responsible. um, because cause my health, i don't think, will ever be the same. um, they say stress brings out can bring out, uh, and cause

many things . um, i myself have many things. um, i myself have been through breast cancer in the last five years. how do i know the stress of it all hasn't brought that on. um i lost my parents in the process of all of this, and they never saw my innocence being proved. oh, dear . uh, i don't think anything will ever, um, make up for that. it'll never. it'll always be in the back of my mind, no matter. doesit the back of my mind, no matter. does it matter that i've been found innocent and had my conviction quashed because the damage has been done already. >> pauline, when you were >> and, pauline, when you were watching the itv docudrama that must have been very triggering for you. in a way, yes. you're pleased that the story has now been told. the true story has been told. the true story has been told. the true story has been told to millions of people. but what effect did it have on you watching it? >> um, my husband and i watched them all in one go on the first night. we watched all four episodes. um um, i found it very distressing. it brought back loads of bad memories. i was

reliving sitting in my own post office, checking and rechecking everything. uh, yeah , it's. the everything. uh, yeah, it's. the storylines were so similar to mine. uh, yeah. i cried and i screamed and i shouted and left the room on a few occasions because i was so upset and didn't want to show how upset i was to my husband. uh, so yeah, it's brought back too many bad memories and subsequently, because of that, and the follow up to it , it's because of that, and the follow up to it, it's been difficult to sleep . um, because i'm thinking sleep. um, because i'm thinking about it all the time. >> of course you are. of course you are. and if there's one question you could ask now, what would it . be? would it. be? >> i don't know, to be honest. i think, um , i think for ministers think, um, i think for ministers and especially for the prime minister as well, is that, uh, is that he does what he says he's going to do? and can he honestly do it quickly enough to, um, to solve to solve it all

and put us in a better position again ? well we'll keep a keen again? well we'll keep a keen eye on the on the progress of this legislation emerging kc legislation. >> the government says it wants to deliver as soon as is possible, but for now , pauline possible, but for now, pauline stonehouse, thank you so much for sharing your story with us and talking through this , this and talking through this, this big, big day in the course of this scandal. >> ah you're welcome. thank you . >> ah you're welcome. thank you. >> ah you're welcome. thank you. >> i wish pauline all the very best. hopefully she is now starting to see the wheels of justice turn finally . justice turn finally. >> well, coming up, we'll have the latest on the red sea crisis , asking can the uk stop these iran backed houthi raids on our goods, trying to get to the uk? well, this is good afternoon britain on

monday to thursdays from six till 930. >> welcome back. the crisis in the red sea is deepening as the uk and us repel the largest ever attack by iranian backed houthi rebels . rebels. >> well, posting on social media, the defence secretary grant shapps, says that royal naval air defence destroyer hms diamond shot down multiple attack drones heading for commercial oil vessels. luckily there were no injuries or damage

to the diamond or her crew . to the diamond or her crew. >> well, joining us with more on this is our security editor , this is our security editor, mark white. how significant then, mark, is this latest development here? >> what does note that this is a worrying escalation. as you mentioned in the introduction, this single biggest launch . i this single biggest launch. i agree with that. uh in months since the it was started firing these drones and missiles on, uh, toward tom moore echr commercial ships. they the home office blob. nothing to israel and they say that. but i think some of the vessels that have been linked to israel are very tenuous links indeed. so so some real concern , uh, going forward real concern, uh, going forward about just how this might escalate . we've got a warning escalate. we've got a warning from the us and the uk last week saying that there would be potentially military action

against the houthi rebels if they continued with those missile and drone strikes . well, missile and drone strikes. well, there's apart from a slight lull over the weekend in which there were a few, uh, smaller, lower level attacks, um, it seems now that we've got this very significant, uh, attack , uh, significant, uh, attack, uh, grant shapps is warning that if they continue, then there will be action. this is what he said a little earlier. >> you have, i'm afraid , failed >> you have, i'm afraid, failed to heed the warnings issued on the 3rd of january. we seem to see a drop off after that by a number of different countries, including the uk and the us. for them to stop and to cease action. uh, but i'm afraid, uh, last night proved they really are not listening. >> if this doesn't stop, then action will be taken. >> so i'm afraid i suppose the simplest thing is to say watch this space. >> well, of course , worryingly >> well, of course, worryingly for the british and other naval assets out in that area, it

wasn't just, it seems commercial shipping that was targeted. according to the defence secretary , some of those attack secretary, some of those attack drones were headed straight for hms diamond. it took out seven of the 18 attack drones, three missiles were also launched as well and participate , fighting well and participate, fighting alongside hms diamond was the us aircraft carrier dwight d eisenhower , as well as three eisenhower, as well as three other us vessels. so we are waiting to see what will happen in light of this fresh warning. now from grant shapps. no indication yet that there is an imminent attack on houthi uh, positions that are planned , but positions that are planned, but it's probably unlikely that we would get any indication beforehand. they'll strike when they deem the time is right and when they've had enough of what they see as the houthi escalations . escalations. >> mark, if these houthi rebels,

these iran backed houthi rebels have fired their drones directly at british royal naval vessels , at british royal naval vessels, is that not an act of war? well, yeah. >> i mean, there's no doubt it is a very significant escalation andifs is a very significant escalation and it's not the first strike that has at the very least, uh , that has at the very least, uh, been aimed in the vicinity of other coalition vessels, us vessels , vessels have come vessels, vessels have come unden vessels, vessels have come under, they say , uh, direct line under, they say, uh, direct line of fire from these drones and missiles as well. and they've taken their defensive measures to take out these, uh, drones and these missiles with a view to also, of course, protecting the commercial shipping there . the commercial shipping there. so, yes, it's an escalation . and so, yes, it's an escalation. and the houthi rebels are continuing knowing that it is a flagrant escalation here. the ball is now in the court, if you like, of the us, the uk and other

coalition partners. in the words of grant shapps, though, watch this space where we're watching . this space where we're watching. >> wow, really , really stark. >> wow, really, really stark. could we be dragged into yet another war in the middle east? isuppose another war in the middle east? i suppose that's the question on everyone's lips. uh, mark white, thank you very much for bringing us all the very latest in a concerning developments in the red sea. >> plenty more to come, including the news that london, including the news that london, in a study , has been found to be in a study, has been found to be the slowest city in the world. how slow is it where you live? that's to all come after your headunes that's to all come after your headlines with sam . pip and tom. headlines with sam. pip and tom. >> thank you very much. good afternoon. from the gb newsroom, i'm sam francis. the headlines at just after half past two post office workers have been caught up in the horizon scandal. but they will have their convictions overturned just by signing one document. postal services minister kevin hollinrake says

new emergency legislation may take some weeks to deliver , but take some weeks to deliver, but he insists it is a priority for the government. there'll also be an up front payment of £75,000 to compensate the subpostmasters , who were jailed or bankrupted as a result of the flawed computer software. vijay parekh was a victim of the scandal. >> all the people who are involved in this get the same treatment. we have had all this, uh, convicted , uh, postmasters uh, convicted, uh, postmasters and let them feel how we felt. we've done nothing and we've been imprisoned. they have done something. so they need to be imprisoned for the reason. what they've done . they've done. >> meanwhile, the defence secretary says the uk has helped repel the largest ever attack by iranian backed houthi rebels in the red sea . overnight, hms the red sea. overnight, hms diamond, along with the us, successfully destroyed multiple attack drones. no crew on the warship have been injured and they haven't suffered any damage

, grant shapps says. the attacks are completely unacceptable and he warned there will be consequences . the yemeni consequences. the yemeni militants have been targeting ships in support of hamas in its war with israel . and violence is war with israel. and violence is erupting on the streets of ecuador with police checkpoints and helicopters patrolling major cities. ecuador s president daniel noboa has declared a state of emergency following the prison escape of one of the country's most notorious drug gang bosses yesterday , hooded gang bosses yesterday, hooded gunmen burst into a live television studio waving guns and wearing masks. police say they have arrested 13 people so far . here in they have arrested 13 people so far. here in the uk. the estimated cost of building hs2 between london and birmingham has soared to as much as £66.6 billion, the chairman of the project, sirjohn billion, the chairman of the project, sir john thompson, told mps the increase is due to original budgets being too low . original budgets being too low. changes to the scope of the

project, poor delivery and inflation. in 2013, hs2 was estimated to cost £375 inflation. in 2013, hs2 was estimated to cost £37.5 billion. that was for the entire planned network, including the now scrapped sections from birmingham to manchester and leeds. birmingham to manchester and leeds . for more on all of those leeds. for more on all of those stories and many more, you can visit our website . visit our website. gbillionews.com.

sunday mornings from 930 on gb

news is. welcome back to good afternoon britain. >> now lots of you have been getting in touch about the biggest story of the day, which is of course , that extraordinary is of course, that extraordinary blanket compensation and update it to exoneration that was announced by the post office minister this afternoon. >> elizabeth. good afternoon . >> elizabeth. good afternoon. you say for me those who were in positions of power and those in fujitsu should be hit in the pocket hard, losing all pension rights, any opportunity to get jobs in other organisations so that they feel real financial deprivation . ian. deprivation. ian. >> yeah, there's a bit of a lust for, for retribution, for vengeance, which is understandable. eye for an eye. uh, peter has written in to say that mr bates gave over 20 years of his life , also his wife to

of his life, also his wife to campaign against misjudged by the post office should be he should be put forward for knighthood. >> he was offered an obe. i think it was certainly an honour and he refused to take it because paula vennells was given a cbe at the time and he refused to accept it. but maybe that will changes now that she's returning it. >> yes, or at least has attempted to return it. dave has written in to say that paula vennells should also be d defrocked. now paula vennells is an ordained anglican priest. but she stepped back from any major role in 2021. but i suppose she could still be defrocked if, uh, if archbishop welby wants to get involved. >> well, it's come out in the last 24 hours or so that she was in the running to be bishop of london. gosh. uh, so that's all interesting because i do wonder you know, how how i'll just be really interested to know about how religious faith around all

this with what she's allegedly responsible for. interesting to get into that one, michael. >> i absolutely right. >> i absolutely right. >> michael crick sorry . the >> michael crick sorry. the journalist and author, she was apparently, according to the story yesterday, she was in the last three to be the bishop of london, which is what number? >> the third most important position in the church of england. uh, bishops of london often to archbishop of often go on to be archbishop of canterbury, were fast canterbury, and they were fast tracking the time, um, tracking women at the time, um, women had distinguished women who'd had distinguished careers somewhere else have become ordained and would get moving on faster in the church of they would, would be of england. they would, would be they were a small pool within which fish. but i think which to fish. but i think you're absolutely right. i mean, if she is really a committed christian, um, and a moral person and i, you know, one has to take a take that at face value, i think then she should be really she should spend the rest of her life. i think , rest of her life. i think, making up for this, you know, she should , uh, sell her. no she should, uh, sell her. no doubt. large house, return her bonuses as well. no use the

bonus. use what wealth she has accumulated, what savings she has , uh, beyond, you know, has, uh, beyond, you know, a minimum to live on and spend the rest of her life trying to correct the wrongs that have occurred in this scandal. and there are wrongs in this scandal that cannot be corrected . uh, that cannot be corrected. uh, very easily, such as the, you know, the distress to people's families and the family breakdown down the mental illness . uh, you know, she illness. uh, you know, she should she should go around the country meeting every single one of those, uh, but not just her. >> surely, surely . former labour >> surely, surely. former labour mp denis macshane. good afternoon to you. surely there would be a whole busload of people going around the country doing what michael crick suggested . suggested. >> ministers. i'm not really not going names. i can the going to do names. i can the ministers, the judges who sent them to prison, who are the judges supposed to examine these things independently? the whole establishment rolled over a steamroller, crushing the little people, because that is what the engush people, because that is what the english anglican , tory, liberal english anglican, tory, liberal democrat and yes, labour

establishment does. we live in a country where it's so difficult to get wrongs righted , and the to get wrongs righted, and the mechanism for doing it, especially with the press we have today, it's more and more difficult. i'm not quite into the sackcloth and ashes and poor miss venables or whatever she's got. john profumo did know john john profumo was a very, very rich man. and yes , he went and rich man. and yes, he went and then worked in a charity in east east, east london. did it set an example ? did a single minister example? did a single minister after him start telling the truth , all the truth and nothing truth, all the truth and nothing but truth to the house of commons? >> come on mike, no , i think it >> come on mike, no, i think it did set an example actually, in terms of decent behaviour, it showed genuine contrition on his part, and i haven't seen i mean, she's made statements as paula vennells about how she's deeply sorry about this , but i think sorry about this, but i think she can do more that. and she can do more than that. and actually how she behaves and handing is the handing back the cbe is the least of it. um, it's she should basically the gains she's made

as a human being financially in other ways. she should change her lifestyle and be humble and go round and show she's genuine in her apologies and also contribute to all future discussions about how institutions should be run. as for the knighthood , they just for the knighthood, they just say it at the moment . say it at the moment. >> at the moment she's saying she will not comment publicly on anything until the end of the inquiry . inquiry. >> well, i think that's absurd. i other people are i mean, other people are commenting. it's not as if this judge be influenced judge is going to be influenced in it's not like it's in any way. it's not like it's a, you know, a criminal trial andifs a, you know, a criminal trial and it's subjudice. of and it's all subjudice. um, of course can comment it's course she can comment and it's that itself is that that in itself is interesting. and i'd also be interesting. and i'd also be interesting to know whether she's drama. by she's watched the drama. by the way, alan bates, alan way, as for alan bates, alan bates, the real alan bates, not toby jones, the actor. uh he did an interview for channel 4 news earlier in the week, and he was asked about this. the ministers and whether they should, you know, they should, know, whether they should, whether his whether ed davey should lose his job. actually, he said no, job. and actually, he said no, he ed davey had he he felt that ed davey had been been in all the ministers

have been given a bum steer , i have been given a bum steer, i think was the phrase he used and i thought that is there is a genuine decent person. he's not angry . he i genuine decent person. he's not angry. he i mean, obviously inside he there is a, you know, a horror as to what's happened . a horror as to what's happened. um, but he is, has shown, uh , he um, but he is, has shown, uh, he hasn't overreacted , perhaps in hasn't overreacted, perhaps in the way that i am actually, uh, and i thought there's a really he shouldn't just he should actually him the house of actually put him in the house of lords. would be to have lords. it would be good to have somebody like that in the house of that could comment of lords that could comment on things time things like this from time to time, but a peerage. >> macshane, can you run >> denis macshane, can you run up that she joined the order of bath , member the royal bath, a member of the royal family >> he's married one of them making all this woman one of his. i mean, let's be a bit realistic . i would, for example, realistic. i would, for example, be more concerned about the way everybody took the decision to import contaminated aids blood from the united states and a cheap rate to in to order provide blood transfusions. some of which ended up with people

being very ill and die. no one's been held to account for that. there are other . been held to account for that. there are other. examples one one can give . it is a real one can give. it is a real problem . we do not know how to problem. we do not know how to hold to account how to make good. who's been held to account for grenfell . when hundreds of for grenfell. when hundreds of people were burned to. >> this will surely go denies these other campaigns . now it these other campaigns. now it will, it will and also i mean the reason why i think somebody like alan should be like alan bates should be brought house of lords brought into the house of lords is that he he can the is that he will he can ask the right questions to often in this world we're frightened of being of asking what other people will denounce as a stupid question . denounce as a stupid question. >> and so often and often it's the stupid questions that actually asked get actually should be asked and get to it. to the bottom of it. >> were talking about >> and we were talking about this sort of rotating cast of people who become heads of big pubuc people who become heads of big public bishops public bodies, and then bishops of london or whatever else it might be. those are exactly the same rotating cast of people who've from politics to who've gone from politics to a pubuc who've gone from politics to a public body to the clergy to

whatever else it is who end up in the house as a former president of the national union of a of journalists, not a distinguished one like michael, of journalists, not a diveryiuished one like michael, of journalists, not a divery undistinguished,/iichael, of journalists, not a divery undistinguished, ichael, of journalists, not a divery undistinguished, i was l, a very undistinguished, i was never president. >> i an ordinary member. >> i was i was the president. political is our journalism political job is our journalism in this country completely above reproach when reporting or magnet or making journalists decide to make something into a pubuc decide to make something into a public issue . they've done it public issue. they've done it endlessly on on boats . i'm not endlessly on on boats. i'm not saying i'm not criticising anybody for that, but when you spend all your attention on chasing a few albanians from, you know, how to hire russians and you don't have any energy to pick up the little people. the subpostmasters . that's a problem subpostmasters. that's a problem for michael and i think quite a few people would say that the pressures felt by illegal migration, the hotels that are taken over, it's not the ritz, it's the small people that very often feel the biggest impact of illegal migration to the country. >> i'm sure that's probably an argument that many journalists

have highlighted . i'm not have highlighted. i'm not against issue highlighting. >> it'sjust against issue highlighting. >> it's just more generally with so many problems. i mean, britain is broken. i've just come back from a few days in a country called switzerland where everything works quite well. it's consent . asus. there's a it's consent. asus. there's a slogan in switzerland saying if it's not forbidden , it's it's not forbidden, it's compulsory. so much consensus that they don't even have a prime minister. >> indeed, indeed . >> indeed, indeed. >> indeed, indeed. >> you should go. >> you should go. >> you should go. >> you should go and live there, dennis. let's let's. instead of talking about switzerland, let's let's move to on the red sea because, um , this story about because, um, this story about this houthi attack in the red sea , uh, which was repelled by sea, uh, which was repelled by us and uk warships, there's a deepening crisis going on there, michael . michael. >> there is. and it's frightening. i mean , uh, iran is frightening. i mean, uh, iran is not far off. uh getting nuclear weapons . it doesn't appear to weapons. it doesn't appear to have them now, but but, um, the it could be a few years down the

road, and i don't know what the answer is, because we can't just stand by and allow these rebels to attack commercial shipping or indeed our own naval vessels . indeed our own naval vessels. indeed. and we are economically , indeed. and we are economically, hugely dependent on the ships going through the red sea. >> and this is what we need to make clear to people about why this matters. it's not a case of, oh, this is going on over there the red sea. this there in the red sea. this really does impact on us, dennis. >> it can very directly, for example , where everyone is example, where everyone is pleased inflation is coming down a bit. not so much for food inflation, but it's going in the right direction given so much of what buy in terms of food or what we buy in terms of food or finished products from china, all comes through the red sea andifs all comes through the red sea and it's got the potential to make prices for everything in the whole of europe, not just the whole of europe, not just the uk . say it's been running as the uk. say it's been running as a story. the french navy's been involved bumping these, shooting down these drones for 2 or 3 months. the us big time and actually attacking the boats. royal navy seems to be involved

in a little bit. i was very worried to read last week that we're selling ten frigates. we now royal navy now have the smallest royal navy since napoleonic times. that worries me deeply because nobody's taking defence seriously in this country or indeed this continent or indeed to a large extent in this continent. indeed so those these are devout, if i may use that phrase. we talk a lot about religion this afternoon. islamist belief. religion this afternoon. islamist belief . others who want islamist belief. others who want to see the elimination of jews from the face of the earth. we're not taking that seriously . we're not taking that seriously. and we've got a huge cauldron in the middle east. we've got no working democracy. i okay, there are elections in israel. i don't think bibi netanyahu conforms to anybody's idea of a democratic prime minister and all of this spills over. it's dividing our own streets. the anger in the streets from different communities and everywhere else in europe. and we're not finding solutions, but what is the solution? >> since 1945, we've we've assumed that commercial vessels can go about without military

escorts . are we now reversing escorts. are we now reversing back to undoing that that post—war settlement that we've enjoyed and that's made us prosperous, clear ? prosperous, clear? >> we've always had boat kidnapping . we've always had kidnapping. we've always had particularly oil tankers taken over just by people who people who arrive on the same kind of boats across the channel, backed by petrostate with by an enormous petrostate with without, without the sophisticated missiles being delivered by iran . iran is delivered by iran. iran is unquestionably a rogue state. now, i don't know how you somebody i think said in the 18th century, i don't know to how declare a whole people guilty of something. i don't know that you can just cut iran off and the chinese would go straight in and make them one of their little friends . so there their little friends. so there is we've allowed we've we're very good at starting conflicts . very good at starting conflicts. iraq's and afghanistan's and david cameron intervening in libya and syria were absolutely rubbish at shutting them down.

we've got to start closing down. and that may mean holding our nose and accepting things that the ultra liberal writers and bjarne paulson , the people who bjarne paulson, the people who have this angelic world view, the world is not not a host of angels. there's a very nasty people out there. we have to get a lot tougher and work with partners against them. i don't want to get into any other questions, but when britain isolates itself from the rest of the world, as it did in the 19305, the world, as it did in the 1930s, bad things start happening. >> but when it comes to the crisis at the heart of the middle east, jews against arabs, israel, palestine , you know, for israel, palestine, you know, for years, for decades, we'd all sit around and say, well, obviously the solution is a two state solution, but we are now so far removed from it. the possibility of a two state solution. >> do you think that is dead in the water? do you really think that's an impossibility? >> to you >> very difficult to see how you can all the israeli can remove all the israeli settlers from from the west bank? i mean, carol did it.

bank? uh i mean, carol did it. well in a small, much smaller numbers than would would be required. it's a much, much harder thing for a political leader in what is, you know, they still have elections in israel at pretty regular intervals in some ways, israel's problems is because they're too democratic. but the, the it's so much the idea of a two state solution is so much harder to envisage than it was 10 or 20 years. >> the tragedy of this all was that we were in a space before the events of october, where the saudis were about to recognise israel . saudis were about to recognise israel. things were moving in a good direction. the abraham accords of that. there's accords and all of that. there's so much more to talk about, but i'm afraid we've run out of time. thank you much for time. thank you so much for joining us on good afternoon britain. of britain. we'll be back, of course, from 12 martin course, tomorrow from 12 martin daubney. oh yes. >> martin daubney is up next. bye bye. a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello again. it's aidan magee

ivan here from the met office with the gb news forecast. it's feeling cold out there today. there are some sunny skies around, otherwise lot of around, but otherwise a lot of cloud is covering the country , cloud is covering the country, especially across northeastern parts. high pressure currently driving east to northeasterly winds in across the uk. feeling cold in that wind despite the sunshine in the south and a lot of cloud elsewhere , will bring of cloud elsewhere, will bring some spots of rain and drizzle to wales, northern and eastern england , southern scotland that england, southern scotland that will tend to fade through the night. clear skies in the south will lead a frost in many will lead to a frost in many places, although there will be some patchy cover some patchy cloud cover developing —1 to —2 celsius in the south. a frost also likely for western scotland under clear spells, but elsewhere, where we've the cloud, it's going we've got the cloud, it's going to a frost free start to to be a frost free start to thursday. temperatures of 4 to 6 celsius across east wales into the midlands, eastern england, southern and eastern scotland . southern and eastern scotland. we've got less of a wind on thursday so perhaps not feeling quite as cold in the south. we've got a sunny start in the

south, but increasingly the cloud builds from the northeast, keeping the sunshine towards the far southwest, increasing sunshine and sunshine across central and western scotland. otherwise a lot of cloud, but fewer showers around with today into around compared with today into friday. a frosty start for scotland and northern ireland. clear skies here, generally cloudy elsewhere there and into the weekend . a big change in the the weekend. a big change in the weather comes along as arctic winds arrive with snow showers for scotland . for scotland. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers as sponsors of weather on gb news

away. >> good afternoon. >> good afternoon. >> it's 3 pm. >> welcome to the martin daubney show on gb news broadcasting live from the heart of westminster. all across the uk. today as the prime minister promises to bring in a new law to exonerate hundreds of post office branch managers wrongly convicted in a few minutes , i'll convicted in a few minutes, i'll be joined by a man who was hired to investigate complaints about the faulty horizon system. but but astonishingly, when he found that there were in fact problems with it, the post office simply got rid of him . next up, rishi got rid of him. next up, rishi sunakis got rid of him. next up, rishi sunak is getting ready for a battle with tory mps once again over the rwanda bill, with one influential former minister saying the plan simply doesn't work and there's news of a dramatic night in the red sea,

where the royal navy