away. >> good afternoon. >> good afternoon. >> it's 3 pm. >> welcome to the martin daubney show on gb news broadcasting live from the heart of westminster. all across the uk. today as the prime minister promises to bring in a new law to exonerate hundreds of post office branch managers wrongly convicted in a few minutes , i'll convicted in a few minutes, i'll be joined by a man who was hired to investigate complaints about the faulty horizon system. but but astonishingly, when he found that there were in fact problems with it, the post office simply got rid of him . next up, rishi got rid of him. next up, rishi sunakis got rid of him. next up, rishi sunak is getting ready for a battle with tory mps once again over the rwanda bill, with one influential former minister saying the plan simply doesn't work and there's news of a dramatic night in the red sea,

where the royal navy destroyed multiple attack drones from iranian backed houthis . and the iranian backed houthis. and the uk continues to be in the grip of a cold snap . while many of a cold snap. while many places are still being affected , places are still being affected, of course, by floods . and that's of course, by floods. and that's all coming next in your next hour. all coming next in your next hour . as all coming next in your next hour. as usual. i won't say if you're simply astonishing interview coming up with ian henderson, hired by the post office to look into horizon . but office to look into horizon. but when he came up with the wrong information , they simply gave information, they simply gave him chop. this scandal rolls him the chop. this scandal rolls on and on and on. i was in pmqs earlier today, a political solution seems to be in place , solution seems to be in place, but i want to hear from you as even but i want to hear from you as ever, email me your views gbviews@gbnews.com. what do you make of this scandal .7 is it the make of this scandal? is it the worst thing you've ever seen in british political history? but now time for the news now it's time for the news headunes now it's time for the news headlines with sam francis .

headlines with sam francis. >> martin, thank you very much. good afternoon from the gb newsroom i'm sam francis . the newsroom i'm sam francis. the headunes newsroom i'm sam francis. the headlines at three post office workers caught up in the horizon. it scandal could have their names cleared by the end of this year. postal services minister kevin hollinrake says new legislation to exonerate subpostmasters in england and wales will be introduced within weeks. there'll also be an up front payment of £75,000 to compensate those who were jailed or bankrupted as a result of flawed computer software for mr hollinrake says the victims will get the justice they deserve . get the justice they deserve. >> i intend to bring forward legislation as soon as we can to overturn the convictions of all those convicted in england or wales on the basis of post office evidence given during the honzon office evidence given during the horizon scandal . the government horizon scandal. the government will, in the coming days, consider whether to include the small number of cases that have already been considered by the

appeal court and the convictions upheld earlier, vijay parekh spoke to gb news. >> he's one of the victims of the post office scandal. >> all the people who are involved in this get the same treatment. we have had all this, uh , convicted, uh, postman uh, convicted, uh, postman masters and let them feel how we felt. we've done nothing and we've been imprisoned . they have we've been imprisoned. they have done something so they need to be imprisoned for the reason. what they've done . what they've done. >> meanwhile, the labour leader , >> meanwhile, the labour leader, sir keir starmer, says that rishi sunak has been caught red handed opposing his own rwanda plan . it comes as the prime plan. it comes as the prime minister is bracing for a common showdown over his flagship scheme, after being warned by some conservative mps that it won't work unless it's significantly strengthened dunng significantly strengthened during the first prime minister's questions of 2024, keir starmer referenced reports that rishi sunak had wanted to scale back the government's rwanda scheme when he was chancellor

>> £400 million of taxpayer money down the drain. no one sent to rwanda , small boats sent to rwanda, small boats still coming . it's hardly a still coming. it's hardly a surprise he wanted to scrap the scheme when he was trying to sneak in as tory leader, but he's been caught red handed opposing the very thing that he's now made. his flagship policy ? yes. which member should policy? yes. which member should we listen to? the one before us today ? or the one who used to today? or the one who used to believe in something but the prime minister fought back and accused labour of being against any deterrent. >> you do need to have an effective deterrence to finally solve this problem. >> in fact, the national crime agency agree that you need in their words, an effective removals and deterrence agreement. and that's after agreement. and that's why after becoming prime minister, i negotiated a new with negotiated a new deal with albania thanks to which have albania thanks to which we have seen a 93% drop in illegal arrivals from albania. that's how australia stopped the boats. that's why italy, germany and austria are all looking at similar schemes. he's the only

one who is opposed to a proper deterrent. >> well, today we've heard that half of child sexual abuse cases reported to police in 2022 were crimes committed by children. that's according to data gathered by police in england and wales . gathered by police in england and wales. half of the gathered by police in england and wales . half of the offences and wales. half of the offences involved a child aged 10 to 17 as a suspect or perpetrator in what the force is calling a growing and concerning trend. the figures are up from a third in 2013. elsewhere violence is erupting on the streets of ecuadon erupting on the streets of ecuador, with police checkpoints and helicopters patrolling major cities as . ecuador's president cities as. ecuador's president daniel noboa, has declared a state of emergency following the prison escape of one of the country's most notorious gang bosses yesterday , hooded gunmen bosses yesterday, hooded gunmen burst into a live television studio. they were waving guns and wearing masks. police have so far confirmed they've arrested 13 men here in the uk.

the estimated cost of building hs2 between london and birmingham has soared to as much as £66.6 billion, the chairman of the project, sir john thompson, has told mps the increase is due to original budgets being too low . changes budgets being too low. changes to the scope in the project , to the scope in the project, poor delivery and inflation. in 2013, the project was estimated to cost £375 2013, the project was estimated to cost £37.5 billion for the entire planned network, including the now scrapped sections from birmingham to manchester and leeds . well, the manchester and leeds. well, the words world's first ever pothole preventing robot is set to hit the roads in hertfordshire after a successful test rollout . the a successful test rollout. the machine, called eris, prevent , machine, called eris, prevent, can identify and classify potholes using artificial intelligence , since it can then intelligence, since it can then automatically fill them up to keep water out, which would otherwise sweep through the surface, causing more damage for drivers. if successful, the

machine could save time and money to identify the potholes and cause the disruption that we court that are caused to motorists . it's an court that are caused to motorists. it's an and a drawing of queen victoria is just one of among over 1700 missing objects from museums across england. the list of misplaced items has been collated by galleries and museums over the last 20 years. the national portrait gallery says it has 45 missing items, while the victoria and albert museum says it has more than 180 missing artefacts . that's the missing artefacts. that's the latest from the gb news room. for more, we're on tv, on digital radio and on your smart speaken digital radio and on your smart speaker. just say play gb news now, though, it's back to martin in westminster. >> thank you sam. now we start with the latest dramatic developments in the post office scandal and there's great news for the hundreds of people who were wrongly convicted. rishi

sunak acc has confirmed the government will bring in a new law to exonerate the branch managers caught in managers caught up in the honzon managers caught up in the horizon . it scandal. i'm joined horizon. it scandal. i'm joined now in our westminster studio by our political editor, christopher hope. chris, a lively pmqs today, but, um, rishi sunak appears to have done the right thing as you predicted yesterday, in this very studio. >> yeah, we got wind at gb news that there was going to be some form of legislation to quash these convictions mean, these convictions. i mean, the numbers interesting. numbers are quite interesting. they're now 10% they're coming out now just 10% of postmasters convicted of the postmasters convicted have their convictions have had their convictions quashed. have had their convictions quashed . eight, 980, 93 quashed. quashed. eight, 980, 93 quashed. so 1 in 10. and that's just too slow, i think, um, for politics, the inquiry ongoing into this scandal was meant to report back in 2022. it's now 2024. and i think in a sense politics has just bubbled up and they can't really wait any longer for this inquiry, which was due to report just well over a year ago . now, just well over a year ago. now, um, the pm said in pmqs, didn't he just then that the people

will will be swiftly exonerated and compensated and £75,000 each for those who took action against post office limited? he called it one of the greatest miscarriage of justice of justice in our nation's history, which is saying something in parliament. um, there's a risk here to government because here to the government because they're going exonerate all they're going to exonerate all of convicted post office, of the convicted post office, uh, office subpostmasters . now, uh, office subpostmasters. now, kevin hollinrake, who's . the uh, kevin hollinrake, who's. the uh, the post office minister, he said there will be an unknown number of people who were in that should be convicted. that who should be convicted. but the government's going to get a piece of get everyone to sign a piece of paper i did not take any paper to say, i did not take any money illegally. and if it's found event they found after the event that they did money illegally, found after the event that they did they money illegally, found after the event that they did they cannoney illegally, found after the event that they did they can be 1ey illegally, found after the event that they did they can be prosecutedr, found after the event that they did they can be prosecuted for then they can be prosecuted for fraud. the kind fraud. so that's the kind of cover securing and cover for securing and protecting public money. cover for securing and protectinitially.ic money. cover for securing and protectinitially there'lley. cover for securing and protectinitially there'll be a >> so initially there'll be a blanket exoneration . but what blanket exoneration. but what then will they have to go through each case on a case by case basis to to, check? >> no, i think you're just straight off the board. all exonerated. but if evidence came to light after the event that pritt an investigator, pritt stick was an investigator, look back and say, well, you've

signed paper evidence look back and say, well, you've signed you paper evidence look back and say, well, you've signed you takeer evidence look back and say, well, you've signed you take money. 1ce look back and say, well, you've signeitake ou take money. 1ce look back and say, well, you've signeitake action.take money. 1ce look back and say, well, you've signeitake action. soe money. 1ce look back and say, well, you've signeitake action. so it's)ney. 1ce we'll take action. so it's a it's a good result because one would imagine it would be three quarters of those. more than that that that far more than that probably. innocent . but, probably. who are innocent. but, duncan, former, um , a duncan, you're a former, um, a subpostmaster , aren't you? you subpostmaster, aren't you? you know all about the issue here. yeah. >> i mean, i've followed this now . how. >> now. >> it's extraordinary, what, ten or so days since drama or so days since the itv drama aired in almost disbelief . aired in almost disbelief. >> but of course, ever since i was elected in 2019 have been campaigning endlessly on this because it has a very personal meaning was meaning to me. i was a subpostmaster from 2014 to 2019, and in 2015, um, the branch that i was a subpostmaster of budgens of aylsham was post office of the year. >> can you believe so? >> can you believe so? >> this has been a very personal mission. obviously i've had a constituents caught up with this as well . but you know, we are as well. but you know, we are finally, as i said at the post office question just before i came over here, one of the things we still don't know is how much money was taken by the

post office unlawfully from all of these people. we're now think that there are well over 3000 people, nearly 4000 people. >> well, even on an average figure of sort of 15,000 each, we're talking millions and millions and millions of pounds, which was taken unlawfully. and i've asked the minister to actually go back to the post office. let's publish that number so people can see on an industrial scale how big that number is. >> one thing we do know, duncan , >> one thing we do know, duncan, in terms of the numbers, is that fujitsu worth almost £24 fujitsu is worth almost £24 billion. and over the past decade it's been awarded almost 200 . to the 200 public contracts. to the approximate value of £6.7 billion. they've got deep pockets. they're still in the employment of the government. surely they are the ones to foot the bill for any compensation claims . claims. >> six times i have in parliament said we need to do more to investigate fujitsu six times and thankfully now we are heanng times and thankfully now we are hearing all about this, that they will be looked at. >> i mean, that scene when in

the second episode of the drama, when a subpostmaster union official went into this sort of underground dungeon in fujitsu and was told, oh yes, we can totally change the branch balances for subpostmasters . and balances for subpostmasters. and they never know that we've been into their accounts was absolutely shocking and that you know, that has just totally blown the doors off this whole issue. >> we just you can't place any reliance at all on what we're now told by the post office. >> is there argument for >> is there an argument for terminating contracts terminating their contracts or, you know, at least postponing them, until you sort this them, saying until you sort this out, then, i mean, look, i try and make it simple, like if you're a fish chip shop and you're a fish and chip shop and your supplier is giving your potatoes supplier is giving your potatoes supplier is giving you potatoes, get you ross and potatoes, you get rid them, but can rid of them, sure, but you can go potatoes, go and buy your potatoes, probably supplier, probably from another supplier, reasonably easily. >> the difficulty with this we are talking multi billion are talking about multi billion pound, it companies there pound, um it companies there aren't many of those around. >> and so the special isms to be able to write the software and i agree entirely with you. >> that's why i've been saying they should be investigated. and

i think have to realise i think we just have to realise how intricate and how specialist they the company is and how they are. the company is and how you can't just necessarily cancel contracts left, right and centre they they are centre because they are they are part of sort of so many systems around the country, let alone the world. >> duncan chris. stick >> okay. duncan chris. stick around. let's speak now to a around. um, let's speak now to a man who told the post office that there were issues with their horizon system many years ago, i'm joined now by ian ago, and i'm joined now by ian henderson, who's the co—founder of second sight, which is a forensic accountants company. thanks for joining forensic accountants company. thanks forjoining us on gb thanks for joining us on gb news. ian your story is astonishing . can you please talk astonishing. can you please talk us through it? >> yeah, we were appointed by, um, a group of mps in 2012 to independently investigate concerns about bt horizon. >> um , and we issued our report, >> um, and we issued our report, which i think shocked many people , shocked mps and led to people, shocked mps and led to the formation of a mediation working group because we were deaung working group because we were

dealing with applications from about 140 sub postmasters who felt that their concerns had not been properly um or been taken seriously . uh, been properly um or been taken seriously. uh, and it was that mediation sort of working group that was the first step in getting some form of redress for individual subpostmasters . individual subpostmasters. >> and you came up with the information which the post office didn't like. you raised concerns they didn't like the sound of those concerns, and they simply terminated your employment. is that correct ? employment. is that correct? >> they terminated our contract and they also terminated their support for the media sort of working group . um, so it was it working group. um, so it was it was a bit of a double whammy, which was unfortunate, uh, for, for subpostmasters and ultimately probably for not in the best interests of post office either. >> and this was in 2015. it's now 2023, eight years. it started in 2012. >> we continued working for post

office and on behalf of um, well , we were appointed by members of parliament, um, and we worked for about sort of three years and matters all came to a head in 2015. and by then we had substantially issued about 140 reports on individual cases affecting subpostmaster owners. >> so 140 clear cases of evidence eight years ago. so the post office got the information which they'd asked for. they'd paid for, they'd employed you to provide when you gave it. they didn't like what they heard. and so they got rid you. this is so they got rid of you. this is utterly scandalous . utterly scandalous. >> i think that was the view of many mps, and certainly many of the participants in the mediation working group. i remember talking to alan bates at the time, who who formed the justice for sub postmasters alliance, and he he regarded that the inevitable consequence of the withdrawal of post office

from supporting that scheme was he had no option then but to head for litigation and he rapidly moved over a period of 2 or 3 years towards the group litigation order, which was a civil claim on behalf of i think it was 555 former subpostmaster against post office . against post office. >> and so mr henderson, having uncovered your irregular parties in horizon, which of course is a product of fujitsu , now we move product of fujitsu, now we move towards what should have been happening years ago. if your evidence had been heeded, at any rate, and is looking to rate, and that is looking to restore good names, the restore the good names, the good, good law and also good, the good law and also heading towards compensation for those affected, do you think that bill should be footed by the fujitsu ? the fujitsu? >> i think that's a question for post office to answer. i mean certainly, um, you know, post office may well be considered their own position and their relationship with, with fujitsu .

relationship with, with fujitsu. uh, i wasn't i wasn't aware of in detail of the contractual relationships and i can't really sort of comment on potential liabilities. >> but in terms of your experience of working with with the post office, i mean, they're already been pulled out of any right to take part in any of the consultation in terms of the legal issues moving forward from what you're saying, that they're they're kind of good faith, their good name that would stand up. they can't be trusted. well post office resisted us from from day one. >> they they , they in effect had >> they they, they in effect had our appointed imposed upon them by members of parliament. thank goodness for um, strong willed , goodness for um, strong willed, independently minded members of parliament. um, like like um james uh arbuthnot . uh, theresa. james uh arbuthnot. uh, theresa. uh, and, um. yeah and nadhim zahawi and others who really challenged , um, uh, post office challenged, um, uh, post office

and um, um, and did a great deal to to, move this forward and have you had any i mean, you've been watching this scandal unroll since the itv drama . unroll since the itv drama. >> you obviously know about this from your own involvement . has from your own involvement. has this just seem to you like an accident in slow motion? did you know this was coming? you sense this was coming. you saw the injustice from inside the system. it's taken so long to come to the public mind. now, how are you feeling about this very, very pregnant pause between your findings and this actual resolution. now, eight whole years later, after you presented . presented. >> yes. i mean, it was the second site has lived with this for certainly the last ten years. um, and, and despite um representations to members of parliament and so on, um, it is quite astonished seeing the impact that, um , the mr bates impact that, um, the mr bates fee , the post office um written fee, the post office um written by gwyneth hughes, the drama , by gwyneth hughes, the drama,

the impact has been absolutely astonishing. i don't think anybody could have could have predicted that the drama could have had the effect that it has. it's totally changed. um, the position of government , position position of government, position of post office. i think it's probably the most dramatic , um, probably the most dramatic, um, drama , uh, that i've ever come drama, uh, that i've ever come across. i hope they win a bafta and very quickly , ian, i think and very quickly, ian, i think more than a bafta. >> what about a knighthood for alan bates? we're seeing we're seeing we're seeing a knighthoods and cbes potentially being stripped away from people. what knighthood for mr what about a knighthood for mr bates? surely that would get a huge , public vote . huge, huge public vote. >> i'm sure. >> i'm sure. >> i'm sure it would. i mean, alan bates has been absolutely outstanding and amazing throughout. we've had the privilege of working quite closely with him. certainly he was a stalwart on the mediation sort of working group. if anybody deserves a public award and recognition for this work, it must be alan bates, and he'd

certainly have the support of second sight. >> thank you very much. ian henderson, the co—founder of second sight, for joining us. i'm joining the studio by i'm still joining the studio by duncan and chris duncan. what's your reaction astonishing your reaction to astonishing revelations that they knew about this for over eight years? did nothing. yes. >> it is extraordinary . i >> well, it is extraordinary. i mean, just sounds as though mean, it just sounds as though give the and then give us the answer. and then when got it, they decided when they got it, they decided to it. you saw a lot to dismiss it. and you saw a lot of play out in the drama of that play out in the drama over the over the last over the last, over the last four days when it was on television . um, absolutely incredible. >> and i think that goes very much heart of the inquiry much to the heart of the inquiry that's still going on. >> and the end of it, of >> and at the end of it, of course, we've not really talking about it a lot at the moment, but met has decided press but the met has decided to press into criminal investigation i >> -- >> those who knew what within fujitsu the post office fujitsu and also the post office and those investigations . so as and those investigations. so as i've said just now in parliament before i came here, we are probably only halfway through the what a half the journey. and what a half we've already had there going we've already had there is going to awful lot more to go to be an awful lot more to go with this. >> and when start find >> and when we start to find out, actually

out, you know, people actually being prosecuted and investigated what knew, investigated for what they knew, why it, what why they lied about it, what they covered up, mr henderson they covered up, as mr henderson has basically just alluded to, it is going to get even deeper. >> stone we are turning, >> every stone we are turning, we finding more and more. we are finding more and more. >> chris, um, just a mind blowing saga , but do you think blowing saga, but do you think the conservatives have been swift this? i mean , swift to act on this? i mean, rishi sunak today this rishi sunak today pledged this this quickly this exoneration pretty quickly in the whole huge, sprawling magnitude of this case, at least as we approach this kind of resolution stage , the acted resolution stage, the acted swiftly. well, there have been i mean, i in government, the mean, i think in government, the problem they've got in government is all sorts of problems that could be dealing with. the rac concrete >> look at the rac concrete last, summer. now that went last, last summer. now that went through three decades not through three decades of not being replaced the aerated concrete until there's a problem with last summer with the school last summer suddenly , suddenly the took suddenly, suddenly the took action i think to fair to action i think to be fair to ministers, they have they have got they've only got limited things the time things they can do in the time allowed and the rest allowed financially and the rest of it. and i think this program last people to put last week allowed people to put yourself side of the yourself on the side of the subpostmasters see in their subpostmasters and see in their real how it was for them. but

real in how it was for them. but duncan, you met some of the key figures, you met paula vennells, didn't did you find didn't you? and how did you find her her? now her when you met her? she now lost losing her cbe, i lost her, losing her cbe, i should say she's handing it back i >> -- >> yes, i'd called for that over the last few days and very pleased to see that that's happened. that was the right pleased to see that that's happeto d. that was the right pleased to see that that's happeto d. tyeah,1s the right pleased to see that that's happeto d. tyeah, i the right pleased to see that that's happeto d. tyeah, i met right pleased to see that that's happeto d. tyeah, i met hert pleased to see that that's happeto d. tyeah, i met her in thing to do. yeah, i met her in 2016 subpostmasters 2016 on a subpostmasters training course. >> seen >> somewhat ironically seen as a bit of up for the post bit of a pin up for the post office because we were running a subpost office and a post office in the back of a budgens store . in the back of a budgens store. it wonderful sort of . it it was a wonderful sort of. it was large budgens store, so we was a large budgens store, so we were seeing a real were seeing as a real professional corporate operators were seeing as a real profesrpostl corporate operators were seeing as a real profesrpost office irate operators were seeing as a real profesrpost office just operators were seeing as a real profesrpost office just what|tors of the post office just what paula vennells wanted to see. and i got the impression just at that that actually they that meeting that actually they weren't interested the little weren't interested in the little people, little people, you know, the little post offices attached to a cafe. exactly what saw exactly what you saw joe hamilton having . and that goes hamilton having. and that goes to the heart of this doesn't it? the little people, they weren't interested in. okay. >> stuff. duncan baker, >> superb stuff. duncan baker, conservative >> superb stuff. duncan baker, consenpostmaster thanks for former postmaster thanks for your insight, chris. hope always former postmaster thanks for y(pleasure.:, chris. hope always former postmaster thanks for y(pleasure.:, cihaveiope always former postmaster thanks for y(pleasure. :, cihave to e always former postmaster thanks for y(pleasure.:, cihave to move |ys former postmaster thanks for y(pleasure.:, cihave to move on a pleasure. we have to move on now. as we said, it was the

first prime minister's questions of and that took place of the year and that took place this lunchtime. in fact , was this lunchtime. in fact, i was there lee anderson the there and lee anderson asked the first question and you'd first question and as you'd expect, the session expect, he made sure the session started with bang, with a started with a bang, with a question about about sir ed davey. >> this is the same liberal democrat leader who in the past has called for the resignation of over 30 prominent people in this country who have made mistakes in their job. >> so the minister >> so does the prime minister agree the leader of agree with me that the leader of the lib dems should take his own advice start clearing advice and start by clearing his desk, his diary clear desk, clear his diary and clear off his . off his. >> yeah, about settles brick to the face and we'll have lots more on this huge story throughout the show. and there's plenty of coverage on our website gbnews.com and you've helped to make it the fastest growing national news website in the country. thank you very the country. so thank you very much . now, the controversial much. now, the controversial rwanda bill is back in the commons next tuesday, and rishi sunakis commons next tuesday, and rishi sunak is braced for yet another battle with the right wing of his party. and the other one i would expect . i'm his party. and the other one i would expect. i'm martin daubney on gb news, britain's news

channel.

>> the camilla tominey show sunday mornings from 930 on gb news . news. >> welcome back . it's 327. >> welcome back. it's 327. you're watching or listening to martin daubney on gb news. now. later this hour we'll get reaction to donald trump's threat that there will be bedlam if he's not given immunity from prosecution . i think there'll be

prosecution. i think there'll be bedlam. whatever happens. anyway. rishi sunak is braced for a commons showdown over his rwanda plan after being warned by tory mps that the proposal won't work unless it's significant . beefed up a large significant. beefed up a large number of right wing conservatives are backing amendments to the bill, aimed at effectively ignoring international law. well, let's cross now to downing street and speak to our political correspondent, katherine forster. catherine, welcome to the show. i gave you a little wave earlier on in pmqs. it's quite lively, wasn't it? and in fact , this very topic came up. fact, this very topic came up. starmer was steaming into rishi, um, digging up dirt about his former life where he opposed he says, rwanda as chancellor. what happened. says, rwanda as chancellor. what happened . next happened. next >> yes, he did. um, it was happened. next >> yes, he did . um, it was quite >> yes, he did. um, it was quite clever, actually , wasn't it, clever, actually, wasn't it, because keir starmer began by talking about an mp who'd had reservations about rwanda, who thought it was a gimmick that

worried about the costs, that thought it didn't work , and thought it didn't work, and said, you know, who is this mp? and of course, it was a allegedly, um, rishi sunak, the now prime minister, when as chancellor, he according to the papers now downing street , are papers now downing street, are saying they haven't seen these dodgy comments. but plenty of people have revealed that . when people have revealed that. when he was chancellor he had all these doubts and reservations about the row and the scheme. so sir keir starmer used this , um sir keir starmer used this, um to great effect in prime minister's questions, didn't he? rishi sunak saying no, no, no i absolutely realise that this is important. this is how we're going to do it. um, but of course it does raise doubts , course it does raise doubts, doesn't it? and he's going to have a battle on his hands next week because the safety of rwanda coming back to rwanda bill is coming back to parliament the second time parliament for the second time next and wednesday, and next tuesday and wednesday, and there's going to be another row. we had a row before christmas. in the end, all the rebels stood down. nobody actively voted against the bill. but will that happen this time ? because

happen this time? because overnight about 30 te tory mps on the right of the party have published these amendments, which, as you say, are to toughen up the bill and to make it explicit that there'll be no sort of pyjama injunctions from european courts that they won't be able to block us doing what we want. also to tighten who might be able to appeal against going , um, to might be able to appeal against going, um, to basically people who are unfit to fly, like heavily pregnant women . now, heavily pregnant women. now, people like danny kruger , like people like danny kruger, like iain duncan smith, like bill cash, like robert jenrick , the cash, like robert jenrick, the former immigration minister, feel that these adjustments are absolute critical. if this bill is to have a chance of succeeding . however, on the succeeding. however, on the other side of the party, about 101 nation mps on the left of the tory party and they feel that they can just about live with the bill as it is. but if it goes an inch further , that it goes an inch further, that will be an inch too far. so, um, so robert buckland with former

justice secretary this morning saying that these new amendments being proposed have gone too far and that as it is, he's not that happy about the existing bill as it stands. so no real problems ahead next week for rishi sunak. they need to try to find a way through this to get it through the commons , to get it through the commons, to get it through the commons, to get it through the lords, where, let's face it, it's to have an almighty it's going to have an almighty battle hopefully to get battle and then hopefully to get people flights to rwanda in people on flights to rwanda in the spring. that's all. always still what rishi sunak is pinning his hopes on. but, um, real doubts as to whether it will ever happen . will ever happen. >> okay, katherine forster live from down the street. here we go again. it's like brexit. it's two too lame for the right and too beefy for the left. it's the same old story now. there's lots more still to come between now and 4:00. i'll have the full story from a dramatic night in the red sea, where hms diamond destroyed multiple attack drones the red sea, where hms diamond destriranianultiple attack drones the red sea, where hms diamond destriranian backedittack drones the red sea, where hms diamond destriranian backed houthi rones from iranian backed houthi rebels. but first, here's your

latest news headlines with sam francis . francis. >> martin thank you. good afternoon from the gb newsroom i'm sam francis. the headlines at 330. >> all the people who are involved in this get the same treatment . we have had all this , treatment. we have had all this, uh, convicted , uh, postmasters uh, convicted, uh, postmasters and let them feel how we felt. we've done nothing. and we've been imprisoned. they have done something. so they need to be imprisoned for the reason . what imprisoned for the reason. what they've done . they've done. >> well, that was one of the victims speaking there from the post office scandal. he was caught up in that horizon it scandal among many others who will have their convictions overturned . and just by signing overturned. and just by signing one document that comes as the postal services minister, kevin hollinrake, says that new emergency legislation may take some weeks to deliver. but he insists it is a priority for the

government . there will also be government. there will also be an up front payment of £75,000 to compensate the subpostmasters, who were jailed or bankrupted as a result of flawed computer software . flawed computer software. meanwhile, the defence secretary says the uk has helped to repel the largest ever attack by iranian backed houthi rebels in the red sea overnight . hms the red sea overnight. hms diamond, along with the us , diamond, along with the us, successfully destroyed multiple attack drones. no crew on the warship have been injured and they haven't suffered any damage , grant shapps says. the attacks are completely unacceptable and warned there will be consequences. the yemeni militants have been targeting ships in support of hamas in its war with israel . and violence is war with israel. and violence is erupting on the streets of ecuador with police checkpoints and helicopters patrolling major cities. ecuador s president daniel noboa has declared a state of emergency following the

prison escape of one of the country's most notorious drug gang bosses yesterday , hooded gang bosses yesterday, hooded gunmen burst live into a television studio, waving guns and wearing masks. police say they have arrested 13 so far . they have arrested 13 so far. and the estimated cost of building two here in the uk, the route between london and birmingham has soared to as much as £66.6 billion. the chairman of the project, sir john thompson, told mps the increase is due to the original budget being too low . changes to the being too low. changes to the scope of the project , poor scope of the project, poor delivery and . inflation and for delivery and. inflation and for more you can get lots of stories on our website gbnews.com . on our website gbnews.com. >> for stunning gold and silver coins, you'll always value the rosalind gold proudly sponsors the gb news financial report ,

the gb news financial report, and here's a quick snapshot of today's markets . today's markets. >> the pound will buy you $1.2723 and ,1.1626. the price of gold is £1,593.82 per ounce, and the ftse 100 is at 7656 points. >> rosalind gold proudly sponsors the gb news financial report . report. >> maggie sam now donald trump has warned there will be bedlam in the united states if he's not given legal immunity from prosecution. the former president was in an appeals court yesterday over claims that he is immune from criminal charges for trying to overturn the 2020 presidential election result, and trump has warned that he might prosecute joe biden if he beats him in this november's presidential election. so chaos as usual in

american politics and to discuss this, i'm joined by the us political journalist laurie laird. laurie, welcome to the show. always a pleasure, an astonishing scene yesterday. just when you think it can't get any more insane in american politics, trump goes nuclear this time . his attorney this time. his attorney yesterday making the case that he couldn't be prosecuted even as president if he ordered the murder of an opponent by the military . what can you try and military. what can you try and make us make sense of this, please, laurie ? please, laurie? >> in short , i don't think i >> in short, i don't think i can. >> it is so crazy. we're actually losing the language to discuss what is happening in american politics. we started with all of these trump cases saying this is historic and remember when he would drive down to the courthouse when he was in new york and there were drones following him? historic we are losing language. clearly the us constitution was not

prepared for donald trump, but this is an interesting legal question . can you be prosecuted question. can you be prosecuted when you are holding the office of the presidency and i think it is important that judges consider this question. now, this was a three person judicial panel that will consider this . panel that will consider this. order only courts can take a while to issue a judgement. the judges will be aware there judges will be aware that there is of urgency to this, is a degree of urgency to this, but we don't know when the ruling will come down. you can guarantee whichever side loses this one. there will be an appeal. so we won't see the answer to this for some months yet. >> and laurie , this has been >> and laurie, this has been called a for tat . the called a for tat. the prosecution's case is quite simply, they're trying to stop trump any which way they can via the courts. even being on the republican primary ticket. so this is trump basically saying, well, i can play at that game too. and if i win, i'm going to come for you. presumably that's to try and stop them doing this. but will it work or will it

inflame tensions even further? >> look at the moment. every time trump is accused of something, every time there is a court case, it helps his ratings. it also helps his his pursuit of money. now a lot of the big donors have deserted donald trump and nikki haley , donald trump and nikki haley, who is a rival for the republican nomination , is republican nomination, is bringing in some big donors. but in terms of retail politics, every time trump is before a court, small donations from his fan base , maybe a smaller fan fan base, maybe a smaller fan base or diminishing fan base, but donald trump fans are very deep , very enthusiastic about deep, very enthusiastic about their support. and this does bnngin their support. and this does bring in some money. one thing that surprises me, though, as well as donald trump does every time he's in front of a courthouse, he is still spending a lot of money and a lot of time in iowa. the iowa caucuses are less than a week away. they take place next monday and for a man who has such a big lead, i am surprised at how much time and

money donald trump is throwing into iowa. he's doing a town hall meeting there tonight. uh nikki haley and ron desantis are also are doing a debate tonight. remember donald trump has not engaged any debate with his engaged in any debate with his rivals. but donald trump, for all his lead , spending a lot all of his lead, spending a lot of time in iowa. >> and it's interesting because none seems to have any none of this seems to have any impact on his on his polling. in fact , it seems to go impact on his on his polling. in fact, it seems to go up and it makes you wonder, you know, is the definition insanity the definition of insanity repeating same thing and repeating the same thing and expecting outcome? expecting a different outcome? when will the biden camp realise it simply pings off his armour ? it simply pings off his armour? >> well, i do think something was different about this hearing yesterday. there were fewer trump supporters around, fewer crowds, and in fact, the coverage was much different than when we first started to see donald trump in a courtroom. so i think that the magic of donald trump as someone being persecuted by the courts, i think that is starting to wear off a bit. i think that he's probably going to have to do a little bit more than present

himself as a victim, as we go forward. but, you know, one thing we talk about over and overis thing we talk about over and over is talk about this over is we talk about this rematch of trump versus biden. i think that's probable matchup. think that's a probable matchup. but i don't think that we should rule out neither of these men being on the ticket. donald trump, because of all of his legal problems. there's a chance that he may not be able to take up the nomination. i do think the nomination is his for the asking. and joe biden, the obvious problems where he could not be on the ticket either . so not be on the ticket either. so i think we have to start thinking about this. it's likely you trump, but you will see trump, biden, but it's foregone conclusion. you will see trump, biden, but it's okay. foregone conclusion. you will see trump, biden, but it's okay. well,)ne conclusion. you will see trump, biden, but it's okay. well, that onclusion. you will see trump, biden, but it's okay. well, that .nclusion. you will see trump, biden, but it's okay. well, that . election, >> okay. well, that. election, the greatest show on earth, is november the 5th, which is in britain of course, is fireworks night. and it certainly will be fireworks. it's going one fireworks. it's going to be one to watch. laird, us to watch. laurie laird, us political journalist. you political journalist. thank you for gb news. forjoining us on gb news. superb . i think american superb stuff. i think american politics absolutely politics is absolutely fascinating. one of the few fascinating. it's one of the few things on earth makes things on earth that makes british politics look sane. now the office has issued the met office has issued an amber cold health alert for the

south—west of england , and south—west of england, and that's not the only part of the uk that's been hit by a cold snap.i uk that's been hit by a cold snap. i fell asleep last night with my electric blanket on. i'm martin daubney news, martin daubney on gb news, britain's channel .

me. michael portillo, gb news. >> britain's news channel . >> britain's news channel. >> britain's news channel. >> welcome back . it's 344. >> welcome back. it's 344. you're watching or listening to martin daubney on gb news a

4:00. i'll have some great news for hundreds of victims of the post office scandal, but now what's happening in the red sea? it's all heating up after the uk and the us fought back against the largest ever attack by iranian backed houthi rebels , iranian backed houthi rebels, defence secretary grant shapps says the royal navy air defence destroyer hms diamond shot down multiple attack drones heading for commercial vessels . well, for commercial vessels. well, joining me now is our home and security editor, mark white. mark, tensions rising in the red sea . um, this is this mark, tensions rising in the red sea. um, this is this brittle and getting dragged inexorably into a war in the middle east. >> i think it certainly looks increasingly likely that there will be some kind of military action at some point against these houthi rebels in yemen itself . so far, what we've seen itself. so far, what we've seen are defensive actions that are taking place out in the red sea to protect both commercial shipping and those naval assets

themselves from attacks from these drones and missiles . now, these drones and missiles. now, it was a very significant attack that was launched last night . uh that was launched last night. uh 18 attack drones that were launched by houthi rebels as well as three missiles. and they were launched in the direction not just of commercial shipping out in the red sea , but off hms out in the red sea, but off hms diamond itself. that type 45 air defence destroyer. it had to take out seven of these , uh, take out seven of these, uh, attack drones , other attack attack drones, other attack drones and missiles were taken out by f, a 18 fighter jets from um the uss dwight d eisenhower. the supercarrier for the us out in the red sea. and three of the supporting vessels , uh, in that supporting vessels, uh, in that carrier strike group that were involved in taking out, uh, these attack drones and these

missiles. we've been hearing from the defence secretary , from the defence secretary, grant shapps martin, who has issued another warning to the houthi rebels, suggests that action will take place if they persist . persist. >> have, i'm afraid , failed to >> have, i'm afraid, failed to heed the warnings issued on the 3rd of january. we seem to see a drop off after that by a number of different countries, including the uk and the us, for them to stop and to cease action. but i'm afraid last night proved they really are not listening. >> if this doesn't stop , then >> if this doesn't stop, then action will be taken. >> so i'm afraid i suppose the simplest thing is to say watch this . space this. space >> now. quite what that action will be, and when it will take place. we don't know. we probably won't know until will any of these strikes have actually happened. in terms of our capability to help the us, for instance , in launching

for instance, in launching strikes, will those ships, those three naval vessels that are going to be in the red sea, we've got hms richmond, a type 23 frigate that's just left gibraltar this afternoon, heading for the red sea. we've got hms lancaster, another type 23 frigate in the red sea , along 23 frigate in the red sea, along with hms diamond . none of these with hms diamond. none of these ships really have land attack capability . ships really have land attack capability. i mean, ships really have land attack capability . i mean, they can do capability. i mean, they can do it , uh, to an extent capability. i mean, they can do it, uh, to an extent via their on board helicopters . and on board helicopters. and they've got naval guns . uh, but they've got naval guns. uh, but that's not what they would employ. it would be missile strikes that you're looking at, uh, going after the houthi launching infrastructure. so it might be that they have to call on the services of a british naval attack submarine that have these, uh, tomahawk cruise missiles. that would be land attack missiles or indeed, they could call on the services of the raf, the typhoons that are

based , uh, normally up in cyprus based, uh, normally up in cyprus , there could be moved down to the likes of djibouti, near yemen, to assist the americans. if they decide to do that. as i say, no firm decision that we're aware of has been made as yet. but grant shapps , they are but grant shapps, they are saying, watch this space, this . saying, watch this space, this. >> we'll say it's a hugely significant and important shipping channel. the red sea, um, millions and millions of pounds worth of goods coming towards the uk from that area. and of course, if that's crippled back then , of course crippled back then, of course we're going to see more spiral ing costs adding to inflation. so this economically is a significant strategic thing we must get involved in. >> yeah , i mean it's easy for >> yeah, i mean it's easy for people of course in the uk perhaps to lose sight of events taking place. uh, out in the red sea, the suez canal, not really think that that's something that should concern them too much, but it absolutely does. it hikes

up the prices of course , oil and up the prices of course, oil and gas, but also those consumer goods that you buy in the supermarkets and the department stores as well, because those that route, uh , for uh, massive that route, uh, for uh, massive amounts of cargo, uh, from asia to the west is normally up through , uh, the suez canal to through, uh, the suez canal to go down through the, uh , the go down through the, uh, the south of the continent of africa, around the cape of good hope adds about another ten days to the journey. and as you say, martin, quite rightly, that then has a direct impact on the pnces has a direct impact on the prices that the everyday consumer in this country and other western countries will have to face. >> okay. thank you for that update. mark white at home and security editor now , as brits security editor now, as brits are known for our love of weather talk, and this week there's definitely lots of that chat about it because the met office have issued an amber cold

health alert for the southwest of england following storm hank last week . over 100 flood last week. over 100 flood warnings are currently in place, and an arctic blast is set to make the country even colder. let's cross now to tewkesbury in gloucestershire in west and our west midlands reporter jack jack carson. jack, you're out there once again freezing your whatsits off. what's the latest out ? out? >> yeah, well, my cheeks are certainly feeling it this afternoon, martin. but as you can probably see behind me, the thing here about tewkesbury, of course, when it flooded last week, in the past couple of weeks, a lot of that flood water is still really being quite stubborn . now we know the stubborn. now we know the environment agency warned that that flood water after the aftermath storm hank would aftermath of storm hank would be around for some around in some places for some time, you can certainly see time, and you can certainly see from behind me with car from behind me with this car park still very much park here. it's still very much flooded, level flooded, and that water level not really reducing at a significant pace. of course, tewkesbury did really feel the impact of the flooding . parts of impact of the flooding. parts of the river severn also then joined the river avon. here joined with the river avon. here which is why there's such both

those big volumes of water coming together meant that there was no other option that, no was no other option for that, no other that water to go other place for that water to go which put a lot this place which put a lot of this place underwater as well. now there are still flood warnings in place here for parts of the river severn in tewkesbury, but also still in also 93 flood warnings still in place across the country. you then combine that with the cold snap and you can certainly feel how a lot of those households who have been struggling with how a lot of those households who iwateraen struggling with how a lot of those households who iwateraen now|gling with how a lot of those households who iwateraen now facing nith flood water are now facing another problem. i mean, just an example what the of the example of what the kind of the mix is. when was mix of those two is. when i was here this morning, you could see that a very layer that there was a very thin layer of over top of the of ice over the top of the of some of flood water, which some of the flood water, which of course is making, um , you of course is making, um, you know, that clean up know, some of that clean up operation even harder. the operation even harder. and the cold snap certainly still looks like it's very much still going to be on the way, because we do have this kind of band of high pressure , this unsettled weather pressure, this unsettled weather coming from the south over the course of the next seven days. now, temperatures here in gloucestershire are already below average. the met office

say for this time of year. and so that band of high pressure coming in, joining obviously with that pressure that's coming down from the north as well , down from the north as well, could mean that this time next week we see around five centimetres of snow here down south. the met office say there could be up to ten centimetres of snow further north as well. so of the people here are so of course the people here are hoping they back hoping that they can get back their lives to with their lives back to normal with their lives back to normal with the flooding. the impact of this flooding. but more and snow could more disruption and snow could well way. well be on the way. >> okay. jack coulson once again up neck it. your up to your neck in it. got your waders there in tewkesbury. waders on there in tewkesbury. thanks joining now thanks forjoining us. now quickly. have quickly. lots of you have been getting in touch with your thoughts office thoughts on the post office scandal. simon says this fujitsu is the world's largest it is the world's sixth largest it provider . with 125,000 employees provider. with 125,000 employees and a turnover in the billions each year. they have made mistakes with the horizon system and should be made to pay all of the costs and compensation in relation to this scandal . so now relation to this scandal. so now a lot of people, a lot of people will agree with that. and in

fact, those are the conversations that were raised today at prime minister's question time. those are the questions we're going to continue on gb continue to raise here on gb news this afternoon, holding people account. it's people to account. it's astonishing. it's taken all these years for this to come to account. we spoke to a guest earlier on who said this was known about for many, many years. but last we approach some form of resolution. okay. stick with us. i'm martin daubney on gb news. britain's news channel. and as i said, we will carry on the pressure on the post office scandal after this. speaking to more mps asking for them why were they asleep at the wheel as this scandal rolled on? i'm martin daubney on gb news. a brighter outlook with boxt solar , sponsors of weather on gb news i >> -- >> hello again. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast. it's feeling cold out

there today. there are some sunny skies around, but otherwise a lot of cloud is covering the country , especially covering the country, especially across northeastern parts. high pressure currently driving east to northeasterly winds in across the uk. feeling cold in that wind despite the sunshine in the south and a lot of cloud elsewhere, will bring some spots of rain and drizzle to wales, northern and eastern england , northern and eastern england, southern scotland that will tend to through the night. clear to fade through the night. clear skies south will to to fade through the night. clear sifrost south will to to fade through the night. clear sifrost in south will to to fade through the night. clear sifrost in manyith will to to fade through the night. clear sifrost in many places, to to fade through the night. clear sifrost in many places, although a frost in many places, although there will be some patchy cloud cover developing —1 to —2 celsius in the south. a frost also likely for western scotland under clear spells, but elsewhere, we've the elsewhere, where we've got the cloud, it's going to be a frost free start to thursday. temperatures of 4 to 6 celsius across east wales into the midlands, eastern england, southern and eastern scotland . southern and eastern scotland. we've got less of a wind on thursday so perhaps not feeling quite as cold in the south. we've got a sunny start in the south, but increasingly the cloud builds from the northeast, keeping the sunshine towards the

far , increasing far southwest, increasing sunshine and sunshine across central and western scotland. otherwise a lot of cloud, but fewer showers around with today into around compared with today into friday. a frosty start for scotland and northern ireland. clear skies here. generally cloudy elsewhere and into the weekend . a big change in the weekend. a big change in the weather comes along as arctic winds arrive with snow showers for scotland . for scotland. >> looks like things are heating up. boxed boilers, sponsors of weather on gb news .

>> good afternoon. it's 4 pm. and welcome to the martin daubney show on gb news broadcasting live from the heart of westminster. all across the uk, there's great news today uk, now there's great news today for hundreds of post office branch managers wrongly convicted because prime convicted because the prime minister's promise to bring in a new law to exonerate them. as chris hope said on this show yesterday , rishi sunak is yesterday, rishi sunak is getting ready for a battle with tory mps over the rwanda bill, with one influential former minister saying the plan, quote, simply doesn't work and the home office halted plans to house hundreds of migrants in luxury apartments in farnborough. and we'll be speaking to a resident and that's all coming up in your next hour . so, as

and that's all coming up in your next hour. so, as usual, i want to hear from you. email me your views gb views at gb news. com we've had hundreds of comments in already on post office in already on the post office scandal and the interview will have shortly with the resident in farnborough of the local mp says that the luxury apartments for asylum seekers has been, quote, we're quote, paused. but we're not heanng quote, paused. but we're not hearing that from our sources on the ground that's coming up in your next hour . but before that, your next hour. but before that, it's your news it's time for your latest news headunes it's time for your latest news headlines with polly middlehurst . martin thank you and hello to you. >> well, the top story as you've been hearing, post office workers caught up in the horizon . it scandal could have their names cleared by the end of this yeah names cleared by the end of this year. postal services minister kevin hollinrake said today. >> new legislation to exonerate support postmasters and mistresses in england and wales will be introduced within weeks. there'll also be an up front

payment of £75,000 to compensate the subpostmasters and mistresses who were jailed or bankrupted as a result of the flawed computer software that made it look like money had been missing . mr hollinrake said missing. mr hollinrake said victims will get the justice they deserve . they deserve. >> i intend to bring forward legislation as soon as we can to overturn the convictions of all those convicted in england or wales on the basis of post office evidence given during the honzon office evidence given during the horizon scandal . the government horizon scandal. the government will, in the coming days, consider whether to include the small number of cases that have already been considered by the appeal court and the convictions upheld , and lord arbuthnot , who upheld, and lord arbuthnot, who is an mp at the time of the scandal, says he is delighted with the result. >> very pleased indeed . the >> very pleased indeed. the government has moved very quickly and the drama has had a galvanising effect . i quickly and the drama has had a galvanising effect. i am delighted both because it means

that convictions are going to be overturned, which otherwise simply wouldn't have been . and simply wouldn't have been. and because it looks as though there's going to be a usefully speeded up way of dealing with compensation . or as we must now compensation. or as we must now call it, redress. so i'm delighted . delighted. >> but vijay parekh , one of the >> but vijay parekh, one of the victims of the post office scandal , spoke to victims of the post office scandal, spoke to gb victims of the post office scandal , spoke to gb news scandal, spoke to gb news earlier. he said he wants more to be done . to be done. >> all the people who are involved in this get the same treatment. we have had all this, uh, convicted , uh, postmasters uh, convicted, uh, postmasters and let them feel how we felt. we've done nothing and we've been imprisoned. they have done something. so they need to be imprisoned for the reason. what they've done . they've done. >> well, in other news today, the defence secretary says the uk has helped to repel the largest ever attack by iranian backed houthi rebels in the red sea. >> overnight, hms diamond of the

royal navy, along with the united states, successfully destroyed multiple attack drones. no crew on the warship were injured. they haven't suffered any damage either. grant shapps , saying the attacks grant shapps, saying the attacks were completely unaware , were completely unaware, acceptable and warned. there will be consequences . the yemeni will be consequences. the yemeni militants have been targeting ships in internal waters in support of hamas in its war with israel . now violence is once israel. now violence is once again erupting on the streets of ecuadorin again erupting on the streets of ecuador in central america, with police checkpoints , boats and police checkpoints, boats and helicopters patrolling major cities. ecuador's president daniel noboa declared a state of emergency yesterday following the prison escape of one of the country's most notorious drug lords yesterday , hooded gunmen lords yesterday, hooded gunmen burst into a live television studio waving guns and wearing masks. police confirmed 13 arrests were made . here at home. arrests were made. here at home. the estimated cost of building hs2 between london and birmingham has soared to as much

as 66 point £6,000,000,000 billion, the chairman of the project , sir john thompson, told project, sir john thompson, told mps the increase is due to original budgets being too low. changes to what he called scope poor air delivery and . inflation poor air delivery and. inflation in 2013, hsz poor air delivery and. inflation in 2013, hs2 was estimated to have a total cost of 37.5 billion for the entire plan network. that included the now scrapped sections from birmingham to manchester and leeds. birmingham to manchester and leeds . the world's first ever leeds. the world's first ever pothole preventing robot is set to hit the british roads in hertfordshire after a successful pilot . the machine, called pilot. the machine, called arrest prevent, can identify and classify potholes using ai artificial intelligence. it can then automatically fill them in to keep out water, which would otherwise seep through the surface, causing more damage. if successful, the machine could save time and money to identify potholes and reduce the disruption they cause to

motorists . it's and disruption they cause to motorists. it's and a drawing of queen victoria is among over 1700 missing objects from museums in england. the list of misplaced items has been collated by galleries and museums over the last 20 years. the national portrait gallery says it has 45 items missing , says it has 45 items missing, while the victoria and albert museum say they have more than 180 missing artefacts . and 180 missing artefacts. and finally, the princess royal has been welcomed to sri lanka with a traditional dance display. princess anne is visiting the south asian country with her husband to mark 75 years of diplomatic relations. during the three day visit, the princess is due to meet the country's president and first lady. she'll also undertake engagements and meet local communities as well as faith groups in the capital, colombo. that's the news on gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker. this is britain's news channel .

britain's news channel. >> thank you polly. now we start with the latest dramatic developments in the post office scandal. and there's great news for the hundreds of people who were wrongly because were wrongly convicted because rishi sunak has confirmed the government will bring in a new law to exonerate the branch managers caught up in the horizon. it scandal. i'm joined now by our political editor , now by our political editor, christopher hope. chris, this time yesterday you broke the story that rishi was planning this law to exonerate the postmasters. today he did it. well done. have you got any lottery numbers? >> we're just beyond lottery numbers. this had a certain inevitability about it. martin didn't it? because this problem has been going around for years. i've written about it many times in previous work at the telegraph . i used to work, but telegraph. i used to work, but i think it was this drama , um, think it was this drama, um, which put the viewer in the eyes of the subpostmaster that you could really understand the gross unfairness of it and the

desperation to find ten thousands of pounds. that desperation to find ten thousands of pounds . that wasn't thousands of pounds. that wasn't your fault. you were told the computer was right. it's been a wake up call for the entire political class. this is erupted on the tory watch and mr sunak rishi sunak is getting ahead of it. there will be a new law in which will exonerate, expunge these convictions, those numbers again, 988 980 supposed master convicted 93 of those overturn one. only 1 convicted 93 of those overturn one. only1 in convicted 93 of those overturn one. only 1 in 10 overturned. going far too slowly. an official inquiry independent mental report back in 2022 is 2024. i think the frankly, the politics couldn't wait any longer. they were trying to wait until the end of that inquiry and then then do something like this. had to on with it this. they had to get on with it quickly and have so. quickly and have done so. there's course, there's a risk, of course, because as kevin hollinrake, the post made post office minister, has made very that might post office minister, has made verletting that might post office minister, has made verletting off that might post office minister, has made verletting off some might be letting off some subpostmasters who did take money, who were guilty, but they feel it's not it's not foolproof, but a proportion

response. >> and they'll all sign a document saying they're claiming that their, their their innocence . and if that's proven innocence. and if that's proven to be untrue, then they will be culpable. the amount of money is eye—watering at stake here? um, a full pardon, full exoneration and moving towards fines , full and moving towards fines, full compensation potentially some numbers saying £600,000 each. it could be that by the end of the yeah could be that by the end of the year. well that is an eye—watering sum of money. the big question is who's going to pay big question is who's going to pay that bill? >> well , yes, the taxpayer >> well, yes, the taxpayer will pay >> well, yes, the taxpayer will pay that bill, but we'll come to who that? else who might pay that? who else might it? moment, might pay it? in a moment, £75,000 announced today on top of payments given out, of the other payments given out, 148 million so far, paid out to subpostmasters 150 million gone subpostmasters150 million gone on legal fees. subpostmasters150 million gone on legal fees . martin. so the on legal fees. martin. so the lawyers are benefiting from this, have benefited so far . it this, have benefited so far. it might be that with this, um, this kind of blanket, um annuls of the convictions, the lawyers have less of a role because each one, each case won't need more lawyers. and it might mean that legal bills come down and more

money is available the money is available for the victims subpostmasters. victims of subpostmasters. but who's bill? well, we who's paying that bill? well, we are that fujitsu, of are sure that fujitsu, of course, company behind course, the company behind the honzon course, the company behind the horizon ryzen horizon scheme, the ryzen computer went computer program which went wrong, question which wrong, that is a question which will for many days to come. >> a lot of people are saying that that should be the case. now, here's a company valued at the end of £24 billion. the thick end of £24 billion. um, has government contracts the thick end of £24 billion. urthis has government contracts the thick end of £24 billion. urthis datejovernment contracts the thick end of £24 billion. urthis date overnment contracts the thick end of £24 billion. urthis date over 2001t contracts the thick end of £24 billion. urthis date over 200 contracts:s to this date over 200 contracts worth approximately £6.7 billion per year. but i guess it's not quite as simple as we heard earlier on. it's not quite as simple as just kicking them out, because who could do the job if they weren't still in place? nevertheless, government nevertheless, the government has significant and significant leverage to try and extract the payment from them because, after all, you know, we've seen that they are entirely culpable every time that fujitsu get a contract going forward for a number of years, this will be brought up. >> why is this happening? it's a reward for failure over this contract. raise this with contract. i raise this with senior figures number 10 this senior figures in number 10 this week, told me for gb week, and they told me for gb news they said the problem is we are fujitsu. if we

are so reliant on fujitsu. if we just them a bit like just just remove them a bit like huawei, the chinese telecoms firm, from the government infrastructure, from government work will damage the way we do. government work. it will damage other government. they other parts of government. they can't but no can't afford to. but no question, political question, there's a political risk now this company until risk now to this company until they can show that they've dealt with this and seen it properly through. wondering with this and seen it properly throuhappened wondering with this and seen it properly throu happened here.»ndering with this and seen it properly throu happened here. whying with this and seen it properly throu happened here. why did what happened here. why did ministers, officials believe computers against people are , computers against people are, you know, upstanding people in communities ? at the time all communities? at the time all this happened in the late 2000, the government was cutting back the government was cutting back the network of post post offices from 14,000 to 11.5 thousand. that was pat hewitt, who was the post office minister, the dti minister. there's lots of battling there with the subpostmasters who didn't want to be shut down against royal mail and government. i think at the time there was lots anger the time there was lots of anger about there's tension in the about and there's tension in the network against the companies and but and that may have helped it, but there's question there's no question there's a wake here for official wake up call here for official civil servants, ministers. why didn't they believe the people

against computers ? against computers? >> there a case there? you >> is there a case there? you make that this was a useful scandal in a sense. if they wanted trim back the postal wanted to trim back the postal service, it was like, well, here comes a scandal. let's utilise that. the case, and that. if that's the case, and we've seen we spoke a guest we've seen we spoke to a guest earlier, we'll a clip of earlier, we'll have a clip of him in a minute. henderson, him in a minute. ian henderson, who worked for the, um, a company that was brought in to audh company that was brought in to audit and help with the dodgy software with horizon when he when he proved that this was the case, fired him . case, they fired him. >> yeah, because it was the wrong answer, wasn't because wrong answer, wasn't it? because when consultants, when you bring in consultants, you want to give them the answer you want to give them the answer you anyway. anyone you want to have anyway. anyone who that who runs a company knows that i think. yeah, there was there was tension subpostmasters, think. yeah, there was there was tenrnetwork subpostmasters, think. yeah, there was there was tenrnetwork againubpostmasters, think. yeah, there was there was tenrnetwork again based masters, think. yeah, there was there was tenrnetwork again based posters, the network again based post office central and then office limited, central and then the government about the closure plan. i think that may have meant that people may have thought, well, they're always moaning something now moaning about something and now it's but it's money going missing. but of course a huge issue, it's money going missing. but of corwe a huge issue, it's money going missing. but of corwe saw a huge issue, it's money going missing. but of corwe saw in a huge issue, it's money going missing. but of corwe saw in that a huge issue, it's money going missing. but of corwe saw in that investigation.a, as we saw in that investigation. and home to roost . and it's now come home to roost. >> we've seen, um, vandals stripped of a talk about ed

stripped of a cbe talk about ed davey , um, in the firing line as davey, um, in the firing line as well. his knighthood. nobody's come out of this particularly well or smelling of roses, have they. well or smelling of roses, have they . um, but credit to rishi they. um, but credit to rishi sunak today, do you think? i mean, he's acted swiftly, considering it's taken many, many years to get to this point. but game, the resolution but the end game, the resolution towards comes towards justice when it comes has pretty swift. towards justice when it comes hasit's pretty swift. towards justice when it comes hasit's preverynift. i think >> it's been very swift. i think credit sunak . i >> it's been very swift. i think credit sunak. i mean, credit to rishi sunak. i mean, what could have done? what else could he have done? labour earlier our new pmqs labour earlier on our new pmqs live , anneliese dodds live programme, anneliese dodds said look the said they will look at the detail proposed detail of what's being proposed before support it but before they can support it, but it's they'll it's almost certain they'll support elements of this support it or elements of this to make it happen very, very quickly. but ed davey a knighthood, he won't hand it back, he told news yesterday. back, he told gb news yesterday. he got when he was over the he got that when he was over the penod he got that when he was over the period he was post office minister, questioned for him going forward. >> let's look at that >> okay, well let's look at that clip about because clip now. i spoke about because earlier chopper, earlier in the show, chopper, i spoke henderson. he's spoke to ian henderson. he's the co—founder second co—founder of second sight, which forensic which is the forensic accountants company , and they accountants company, and they found problems with post found problems with the post office horizon it system. many many years before the supposed masters convictions started to

be quashed. >> yeah , we were pointed by, um, >> yeah, we were pointed by, um, a group of mps in 2012 to independent to investigate concerns about horizon . um, and concerns about horizon. um, and we issued our report, which i think shocked many people, shocked mps and led to the formation of a mediation working group because we were dealing with applications from about 140 subpostmasters who felt that their concerns had not been properly um or been taken seriously . uh, properly um or been taken seriously. uh, and it was that mediation sort of working group that was the first step in getting some form of redress for individual subpostmaster actors. >> and you came up with the information which the post office didn't like. you raised concerns . they didn't like the concerns. they didn't like the sound of those concerns , and sound of those concerns, and they simply terminated your employment. is that correct ? employment. is that correct? >> they terminated our contract and they also terminated their support for the mediation sort

of working group. um, so it was it was a bit of a double whammy, which was unfortunate, uh, for for, subpostmasters and ultimately probably not for the in the best interests of the post office either . post office either. >> and this was in 2015. it's now 2023, eight years work starts . starts. >> it started in 2012. we continued working for post office and uh, on behalf of, uh, well, we were appointed by members of parliament, um, and we worked for about sort of three years and matters all came to a head in 2015. and by then we had substantially issued about 140 reports on individual cases affecting sub postmasters. so 140 clear cases of evidence, eight years ago, the post office got the information which they'd asked for, they'd paid for, they'd employed you to provide when you gave it. >> they didn't like what they

heard and so they got rid of you. this is utterly scandalous. >> i think that was the view of many mps and certainly many of the participants in the mediation working group. i remember talking to alan bates at the time, who who formed the justice for subpostmasters alliance , and he he regarded alliance, and he he regarded that the inevitable consequence of the withdrawal of post office from supporting that scheme was he had no option then but to head for, for litigation, and he rapidly moved over a period of 2 or 3 years towards the group litigation order, which was a civil claim on behalf of, i think it was 555 former subpostmasters against post office . office. >> yeah . chris, when i spoke to >> yeah. chris, when i spoke to ian henderson earlier in the show, i couldn't believe what he was saying. watching it back , i was saying. watching it back, i really can't believe what he was saying. he provided the evidence they wanted eight years ago and they wanted eight years ago and they simply brushed him to one side. this could have been

sorted out so many years ago. >> again, it goes back to the point of why do people believe computers over people? computers over over people? why do we have a mistrust of what the subpostmaster was saying? the final upstanding people in our they weren't our communities, they weren't trusted the by the of the trusted by the by the of the company who providing the services that horizon horizon software and the post office. it's disgrace . it's a complete disgrace. >> does this go? >> but what where does this go? because okay, today we've seen we've seen we've seen an for action exoneration from rishi sunak talk of compensation. but fujitsu heads must roll. >> well there's a policing investigation. we have to leave that there. let that take its course. but there's no question i think, that a wake up i think, that there's a wake up call any big company call here for any big company providing to the to the providing services to the to the government . if you if you've got government. if you if you've got a problem with your software, make it clear very early on and make it clear very early on and make stop people going to make make stop people going to prison for mistakes. prison for your mistakes. >> piece in your paper >> there's a piece in your paper today, the telegraph, saying this scandal proves this post office scandal proves that britain is ran by cronyism and big money and contracts and

it's like money tucked away and little people don't matter. and politicians are impotent or don't act until they're forced to. do you think that will this just reinforces that, that feeling of impotence? the british public have. and that's why the outpouring of rage over this and anger has been so voluminous . that's right. voluminous. that's right. >> and you've likened it to brexit, didn't the show brexit, didn't you, on the show yesterday? response has been yesterday? the response has been such. does feel like this is such. it does feel like this is everyone's stake a everyone's got a stake in a local post office. everyone goes there send there to buy stamps, send letters. the letters. you know, the subpostmasters think that person is many of is being criminalised. many of them, when they're innocent them, um, when they're innocent is i think it does is outrageous. i think it does strike at the heart of what? of fair play and the fact that we seem to have lost, lost sight of what's important communities, seem to have lost, lost sight of whawe'reportant communities, seem to have lost, lost sight of whawe're taking communities, seem to have lost, lost sight of wha we're taking the :ommunities, seem to have lost, lost sight of wha we're taking the word unities, seem to have lost, lost sight of wha we're taking the word again;, and we're taking the word again of computers , of systems of faulty computers, of systems against those of upstanding individuals . it does at individuals. it does strike at the heart everything think individuals. it does strike at the hebeing everything think individuals. it does strike at the hebeing british. ng think individuals. it does strike at the hebeing british. and think individuals. it does strike at the hebeing british. and tithink about being british. and i think finally we it's being listened to. have been raising for to. mps have been raising for years to and finally years journalists to and finally the officials the government that runs the show have got it. >> that you've been >> i know that you've been banging the drum this one banging the drum on this one a long yourself there, chris,

long time yourself there, chris, i going roll and roll i this is going to roll and roll and roll, i think every day now chris, know, fresh details , chris, you know, fresh details, fresh in senses are fresh horrors in many senses are just keep emerging. just going to keep emerging. >> many ways it's >> yeah, many many ways it's been often issues in been there are often issues in government bubbling government that are bubbling under concrete . last under the rack concrete. last september the government finally got across after got got across that after 30 years. here's another case in point. think government point. often i think government is about keeping plates spinning. our priorities is about keeping plates spinn now? our priorities is about keeping plates spinn now? well, our priorities is about keeping plates spinn now? well, othink)rities is about keeping plates spinn now? well, othink there's right now? well, i think there's tv programme week made this tv programme last week made this the focus of the government's work this week. and we're not really talking about rwanda just yet, the immigration plan. >> we'll have that later >> we'll have more of that later in though. and anybody in the show, though. and anybody out must agree. you out there must agree. you know, we give alan bates we need to give alan bates a knighthood, sir alan bates, for the work he's done. the cbe has been stripped out. there's talk of knighthoods being stripped. that the very that fella surely is the very best of british. on the same topic, the first prime minister's questions of the year took place this lunchtime . in took place this lunchtime. in fact, i was there and lee anderson had the first question of the year. and as you'd expect, he made sure that the session with a bang by

session started with a bang by asking about sir ed davey. >> this is the same liberal democrat leader who in the past has called for the resignation of over 30 prominent people in this country who have made mistakes in their job. so does mistakes in theirjob. so does the prime minister agree with me that leader of the lib dems that the leader of the lib dems should advice and should take his own advice and start by clearing desk, start by clearing his desk, clear clear off. clear his diary and clear off. >> there you go. he started the new year with a bang, a battle subtle as a house, brick to the head. but nevertheless entertaining indeed, you entertaining and indeed, you know davey will he know where is ed davey will he have questions to answer ? have those questions to answer? and this is a topic that's really, really motivated you today because lots of you have been touch with your been getting in touch with your thoughts big story. judy thoughts on this big story. judy says this. i'm getting very cross this government. how cross with this government. how can they make up a law just like this in days? however where they can't pass one on other? just as important issues? this proves it can be done if they want to. well, judy, i'll counter with that. was saying, well, fair play that. was saying, well, fair play to them . it's taken years play to them. it's taken years and years to get to this point, but when they've had to act

quickly, only. but quickly, they have if only. but i agree, they do things like this on other matters. for example , as laura beddow said, example, as laura beddow said, rwanda john says this i have two points. all the convictions were based on false evidence. so should be quashed if there were guilty people involved and they should be retired with proper evidence . many of the evidence. many of the postmasters paid money they didn't owe to try and avoid prosecution. how much was this and who will pay this back? it was in effect stolen an by the post office. john that is an excellent point. a superb point. they were paying money to make this go away . they were taking this go away. they were taking legal wraps. they were being convicted to make it go away, to avoid jail. they were doing plea bargains which they were not guilty of, coughing up money they didn't owe just to try and make this all go away. and that's one of the terrible things about this injustice. ordinary hardworking pillars of the to feel like the community made to feel like they bad when they the community made to feel like they not. bad when they the community made to feel like they not. bhave when they the community made to feel like they not. bhave lots1en they the community made to feel like they not. bhave lots more ey were not. we'll have lots more on this massive story at 5:00,

and there's plenty of coverage on our website, gbnews.com and you've helped to make it the fastest growing national news website in the country . so thank website in the country. so thank you very much . now, the you very much. now, the controversial rwanda bill is back in the commons next tuesday . it's the right wing of the tory party going to scupper rishi sunaks hopes of making it law. what about the other side? i think they too. i'm i think they will too. i'm martin daubney on gb

isabel monday to thursdays from. six till 930 2020 for a battleground year is the year

the nation decides as the parties gear up their campaigns for the next general election. >> who will be left standing when the british people make one of the biggest decisions of their lives? >> who will rise and who will fall? >> let's find out together . >> let's find out together. >> let's find out together. >> for every moment, the highs , >> for every moment, the highs, the lows, the twists and turns . the lows, the twists and turns. >> we'll be with you for every step of this journey. in 2024. >> gb news is britain's election . channel >> welcome back. it's 426. you're watching or listening to martin daubney on gb news. later this hour across the farnborough after the home office backed down over its controversial plan to house 300 asylum seekers in luxury flats and the locals were not happy. we'll speak to one shortly. now rishi sunak is braced for a commons showdown once again over his rwanda plan after being warned by tory mps that the proposal will not work unless it is significantly

beefed up . a large number of beefed up. a large number of right wing conservatives are backing amendments to the bill, aimed at effectively ignoring international law, and robert jenrick, who quit as immigration minister, if you recall over the bill, has warned that the plan , bill, has warned that the plan, quote, simply doesn't work in its current form . well, to its current form. well, to discuss this further, i'm now joined by immigration lawyer hardeep sin bangle . welcome to hardeep sin bangle. welcome to the show. it's always a pleasure . are we there? hello so good afternoon and a happy new year. i think it's the first time we spoken this year. here we go again. ground hog day once again. it's ground hog day once again. it's ground hog day once again , the tory left say the again, the tory left say the plan is too strong. the tory right say it's too weak . um, are right say it's too weak. um, are you expecting any beefed up legislation, particularly removing the uk's adherence to echr law , which is what the tory echr law, which is what the tory right want. they want to block

the echr from grounding flights, block legal immigrants from lodging individual claims , stop lodging individual claims, stop echr um, blocking deportations . echr um, blocking deportations. they kind of turning their guns on the echr. are you expecting any of that legislation to have any of that legislation to have any chance of getting through ? any chance of getting through? >> i don't think so . >> i don't think so. >> i don't think so. >> i don't think so. >> i mean, um, the number of rebels is not enough unless labour vote with them. so if labour vote with them. so if labour don't vote with them, then it won't be enough to bring then it won't be enough to bring the changes about. and also rishi sunak is very carefully poised because he's got to look at the fact that rwanda have indicated, look, that if this is going international going to break any international laws, we're not going to laws, then we're not going to cooperate. remember , we've cooperate. and remember, we've already rwanda and it's already paid rwanda and it's a non—refundable amount. so there's . already 300 million. so there's. already 300 million. so i think that the rebels, as much as the noise that they're creating, i don't think that they really have as much , um, they really have as much, um, sort of chance on this . and sort of chance on this. and they're probably there'll be some talks they might have 1 or 2 sort of concessions by rishi

sunak, but, um, he sort of carefully poised as to not, um, let the whole deal get out of hand because this is one of his flagship sort of promises. and whole. um, i don't need any excuse to bring up brexit, but it does feel like brexit again. it feels like the two, the two sides of the tory party arguing about something which neither side thinks is sufficient , side thinks is sufficient, strong enough or lame enough . strong enough or lame enough. however you want to look at it . however you want to look at it. and never the twain shall meet . and never the twain shall meet. and never the twain shall meet. and yet, of course, it still has to pass through the lords. and when we had kate hoey on the show last year, she called it the house of remainers. and she should know she's one of them. and therein the rub. if and therein lies the rub. if they try and beef it up, it will get voted down anyway, won't it ? get voted down anyway, won't it? well, it can be sent back, but ultimately it can be pushed through. but i think what they've got to take into consideration what the consideration is what the uk supreme said and that, you supreme court said and that, you know, as we can satisfy supreme court said and that, you knovor as we can satisfy supreme court said and that, you knovor the as we can satisfy supreme court said and that, you knovor the government�*n satisfy supreme court said and that, you knovor the government cantisfy that or the government can satisfy that, they'll get this bill through. but this is not a good look for the party in an

election which should be, election year, which should be, um, already um, united and it's already suffering polls. and once suffering in the polls. and once again, the public, again, it's showing the public, is this a party fit to govern ? is this a party fit to govern? >> i mean, you've got they can't even with each other on even agree with each other on simple bits. >> not just one bit. it's >> it's not just one bit. it's not just rwanda it's not just a rwanda scheme. it's also policies. cannot also other policies. they cannot seem on this . it's seem to unite on this. it's a party divided. and i think the pubucis party divided. and i think the public is seeing that. and it's saying, well, hold on, this is a party not back its party that does not back its leader. a party that leader. this is a party that cannot agree. it's had multiple leaders the past few years. leaders in the past few years. we've had multiple home secretaries . in fact, the fact secretaries. in fact, the fact is we've more home is we've had more home secretaries to rwanda than secretaries go to rwanda than actually seekers . are actually asylum seekers. are they and i think they fit to govern? and i think that will tell at polls. that will tell at the polls. this definitely a good this is definitely not a good look conservative party look for the conservative party they need to sort this they really need to sort this out election and out in an election year. and that's rishi sunak going out in an election year. and that's as rishi sunak going out in an election year. and that's as longi sunak going out in an election year. and that's as long aanak going out in an election year. and that's as long as hek going out in an election year. and that's as long as he can going out in an election year. and that's as long as he can andg to take as long as he can and leave it to as late as he can to actually get the election. yeah no, think you're absolutely no, i think you're absolutely right. this and the right. i think with this and the improving they try improving economy, they will try and as long terme as they and go as long terme as they can. immigration lawyer hojjat singh bango. thank you for

joining on the show. it's joining us on the show. it's always a pleasure. you always a pleasure. thank you very much . now there's lots more very much. now there's lots more still come between now and still to come between now and 5:00 the of england 5:00 as the bank of england governor is grilled by the treasury committee, could interest finally start to interest rates finally start to come down again? well, here's hoping, but first, here's your latest news headlines with polly middlehurst . middlehurst. >> the headlines this hour, the post office workers caught up in the horizon. it scandal will have their convictions overturned by signing to their innocence on a single document. postal services minister kevin hollinrake says new emergency legislation to exonerate the workers may take some weeks, but insists it is a priority for the government. they'll also be an up front payment of £75,000 for each victim to compensate them for being pilloried , jailed or for being pilloried, jailed or bankrupted as a result of flawed computer software which wrongly indicated they'd been stealing

post office money. vijay parekh was a victim of the scandal. he says those responsible must be held accountable. all . the held accountable. all. the people who are involved in this get the same treatment . get the same treatment. >> we have had all this , uh, >> we have had all this, uh, convicted , uh, postmasters and convicted, uh, postmasters and let them feel how we felt. we've done nothing and we've been imprisoned. they have done something. so they need to be imprisoned for the reason, what they've done . they've done. >> in other news today, the defence secretary says the uk has helped to fight off the largest ever attack by iranian backed houthi rebels in international shipping lanes. the royal navy's hms diamond, supported by the united states military, successfully destroyed multiple drone attacks swarming over container shipping in the red sea, grant shapps says the attacks were completely unacceptable and warned there would be further consequences. yemeni militants have been targeting commercial shipping in support of hamas and its war with israel . there's still

with israel. there's still uncertainty and violence on the streets of ecuador in central america today . police america today. police checkpoints are in place and helicopters are patrolling major cities . after a sudden grapple cities. after a sudden grapple for power between state and drug cartels , the president, daniel cartels, the president, daniel nemo sook, declared a state of emergency following the prison escape of one of the country's most notorious drug lords. and last night , most notorious drug lords. and last night, gunmen took control of a live tv studio , taking of a live tv studio, taking hostages and making threats. of a live tv studio, taking hostages and making threats . the hostages and making threats. the military were deployed to the streets to take back control, and police rounded up and arrested suspects . the estimated arrested suspects. the estimated cost building hs2 between cost of building hs2 between london and birmingham has soared to as much as £66.6 billion, the chairman of the project, sir john thompson, told mps the increase was due to original budgets being too low and changes to scope poor delivery and inflation in 2013, hs2 was estimated to cost 37.5 billion for the entire planned network.

that included the now scrapped sections from birmingham to manchester and leeds . those are manchester and leeds. those are the headlines . more manchester and leeds. those are the headlines. more on all manchester and leeds. those are the headlines . more on all those the headlines. more on all those stories by heading to our website, gbnews.com . i'm website, gb news.com. i'm >> website, gbnews.com. i'm >> thank you polly . now, the >> thank you polly. now, the bank of england governor, andrew bailey, says he hopes that the recent fall in the cost of mortgages would continue. and don't we all? bailey appeared before the treasury committee today and facing questions about interest rates ahead of the bank's decision . on the 1st of bank's decision. on the 1st of february, what do we know is liam halligan gb news, business and economics editor with on the money . liam andrew bailey um, in money. liam andrew bailey um, in in a rare positive mood. >> good to be with you, martin. um, so, yeah, the governor of the bank of england appeared before the treasury select committee, cross—party group of mps . he was a bit poker faced,

mps. he was a bit poker faced, though, as you'd expect from a governor of the bank of england. but, be but, you know, let's be completely clear. >> i'm getting stopped on the street days street all the time these days by asking me, liam, by people asking me, liam, where's rates going where's interest rates going to go ? go? >> e go? >> a mortgage. my kids >> i've got a mortgage. my kids got mortgage. they got a mortgage. should they stick? they should stick? should they twist, should they they for they fix, should they go for a variable rate? >> what is going to happen with interest rates? let's have a look at bank of england interest rates. >> now this graphic we can >> now in this graphic we can see here that back in 2017 interest rates were ultra low. they went up to about 1. they then went to just a quarter of 1% during lockdown. and since then we've had those 14 successive rate rises all the way to where we are now at 5.25. but look, the vast majority of people, certainly in financial markets, think that the next move in interest rates will be down because inflation is coming down. the question is when? now the bank of england is insisting it's not going to lower interest rates for a long time , certainly rates for a long time, certainly not before the summer. probably in the autumn. i'm not buying

that whatsoever . i think the that whatsoever. i think the bank of england will raise will lower interest rates in the spring. that's because the federal reserve in the us will probably lower interest rates in the spring. and it's not me the spring. and it's not just me that thinks that. it's also the mortgage that's why mortgage companies. that's why the mortgage now are the mortgage companies now are offering that are below offering rates that are below the bank of england base rate, because a five because it thinks over a five year period for as long as you fix the offering, like about 4, the average interest rate during that period will be below 4% because it will come down heavily from five and a quarter. now now, the bank of england governor andrew bailey, he told mps , just let me just flesh out mps, just let me just flesh out that quote that gave. that quote that you gave. obviously we have had a big change in market interest rates, the mortgage rates that are offered, the rates that the markets charge governments to borrow at. obviously, we've had a big change in market interest rates, says andrew bailey in the last few months. and so the cost of mortgages is now coming down. he see that he said he wants to see that continue. he thinks that that he

wants the reduction in mortgage costs to carry on. and so say all of us, because a lot of households now they've been hammered because they've come off low fixed rate mortgages, they've had to remortgage at much, much higher interest rates. perhaps they will soon be some relief in sight and liam, i know you've been saying for a long, long time that the, the, the high interest rates is just making people sit on their hands. >> people are being hammered at both ends on their mortgages, on any loans . they businesses any loans. they have businesses too, course, at those base too, of course, at those base rates. and so they're nervous. they're flighty spending they're flighty about spending money, even the money, investing. even the supermarket . so unlocking the supermarket. so unlocking the economy you've you've maintained for many, many months interest rates being cut. that's the way out of the gloom. >> i think it is the way out, the gloom. as long you don't the gloom. as long as you don't provoke does provoke inflation and it does look as inflationary look as if inflationary pressures receding, pressures are receding, prices are still up . but lower are still going up. but lower inflation means that they're going at a lower rate . you've going up at a lower rate. you've got some saying that got some people saying that inflation will hit its 2% target sometime over the spring and

summer, and i'm increasingly coming to that view as well. inflation could probably overshoot going below 2, particularly because as those 14 interest rate rises we've had, martin, they take a long time to have an impact. a lot of that monetary tightening is still in the tank. that's why i think it's absolutely absurd that three members of the nine economists on the monetary policy committee , just before policy committee, just before christmas, they were still voting to raise interest rates. it's crazy. i mean , i don't know it's crazy. i mean, i don't know if these people understand the most basic aspects of economics. and i say that with some regret. look i do think interest rates are going to come down soon. thatis are going to come down soon. that is my base case. but there is a kind of blot on the landscape, if you like. and again , you and me have talked again, you and me have talked about it and i maintain it. i'm talking about geopolitical whizz bangs. >> that's the red sea. if we get big conflict in the middle east, if we big escalation in if we get big escalation in russia, ukraine, these are energy centres.

>> this will really roil financial markets . energy prices financial markets. energy prices could shoot up again , inflation could shoot up again, inflation could shoot up again, inflation could shoot up again. and then when it comes to interest rates, all bets are off. but my base case is that rates are coming down. relief in the pipeline for households with variable rate mortgages and the relief in the pipeline. >> liam, politically, we talked earlier about rwanda . um, the earlier about rwanda. um, the longer the election is , is longer the election is, is called more chance of flights taking off the long the later the election more chance of these green shoots coming through and maybe convincing voters the tories know what they're doing with the economy. well again, i've been writing in my column for at least my telegraph column for at least three the tories three months that the tories would play the long game when it comes the election, because comes to the election, because they want the benefits of these lower better lower interest rates better consumer lower interest rates better conwe1er lower interest rates better conwe are starting to see signs >> we are starting to see signs of that now, amidst the gloom , of that now, amidst the gloom, to try and impact to and try and generate even the most feeble of feel good factors by the time of the summer and the autumn. they won't want to wait too far

beyond september. october no one wants an election in the run up to christmas. certainly not an election in early 2025. and sunak has actually all but ruled that out . so i'm thinking that out. so i'm thinking increasingly it's going to be a september or an october election. one side or the other of the conservative party conference this autumn, if indeed there is a conservative party conference, they may yet end up cancelling it. you heard it here first. >> well, that's another big line there, always the there, liam. always on the money. liam halligan superb stuff great to have you money. liam halligan superb stlthe great to have you money. liam halligan superb stlthe studio. great to have you money. liam halligan superb stlthe studio. thanks» have you in the studio. thanks for joining moving on. many joining us. now moving on. many local residents farnborough local residents in farnborough are relieved after plans to house asylum seekers in luxury flats have been halted. more than that after this, i've got a superb interview with a local. i'm martin daubney on gb news,

sunday mornings from 930 on gb news news. >> welcome back. it's 444. you're watching or listening to martin daubney on gb news. now let's get more on a story that's on this show that's been following closely over the last few days , and it's a victory for few days, and it's a victory for residents in farnborough who were fighting plans to house almost 350 asylum seekers in luxury apartments in the town and the new block of over 100 flats were available for rent at £1,400 per month before it suddenly taken over by the home office. but after an outcry from many locals, the plan has

allegedly been paused with immediate effect and i'm joined now by local resident gemma lyons. gemma, welcome to the show. it's fantastic to have you on gb news so gemma, i wanted to get a locals perspective on this because we, we hear about the sensation , we hear about the sensation, we hear about the headlines, you live very locally . you're a headlines, you live very locally .you're a mum. um, what is it about this development that concerns you? gemma . i i think concerns you? gemma. i i think i mean , there's a lot of concerns mean, there's a lot of concerns and there's a lot of worries. >> um , i think any group 300, >> um, i think any group 300, 350 people strong , um, sort of 350 people strong, um, sort of dumped in one place. um from any war torn country where all they've experienced is violence. >> um, is going to be a worry. >> um, is going to be a worry. >> um, is going to be a worry. >> um , we don't know who these >> um, we don't know who these people are. we don't know what trauma they've got from what they've seen. we don't know if

they've seen. we don't know if they are , you know, here for, they are, you know, here for, for to sort of embrace our culture. um and from what i've seen , living in temporary seen, living in temporary accommodation myself , if i have accommodation myself, if i have to say, i was really, really quite taken back by actually how many of them were just middle aged men? um, probably about 4 or 5 of them in individual single rooms . or 5 of them in individual single rooms. um so i or 5 of them in individual single rooms . um so i struggle single rooms. um so i struggle to believe that when they're saying, actually, these , um, saying, actually, these, um, refugees are the majority are women and family. i'm not sure how much i believe that, um, i actually attended farnborough tech college . um, i still do, tech college. um, i still do, which is directly opposite. and, um , last year i my course was in um, last year i my course was in the evening. now now, as a woman, as a young woman , um, woman, as a young woman, um, walking past a group of men , um, walking past a group of men, um, knowing that they respect and value the same , um, the same, um

value the same, um, the same, um , values and respect that women the way we do is, is that's intimidating in itself. so to walk past a group of people at that time of evening, personally , i wouldn't feel safe . um, and , i wouldn't feel safe. um, and it's a difficult one, isn't it? because i think we all understand that, um, these people, you know , women and people, you know, women and children, they do need somewhere to don't think that to go. but i don't think that the strategies have been put in place um, been addressed place. um, it's been addressed to the community by the council in a way that i see it sort of, you know, them being able to integrate well into our community. i think it's a case of , um, we've community. i think it's a case of, um, we've got to be seen to be doing something. let's plonk them there and forget about it . them there and forget about it. 300 people in a place where i'm sorry, not many of us are welcoming them. it's already going to cause a lot of friction and i worry that it's going to be a case of us and them, um, um, you know, they're not. it's

>> yeah. yeah. i mean, so , >> yeah. yeah. i mean, so, gemma, um, of course it's important. not to be too jubilant. of course , about, um, jubilant. of course, about, um, this plan not going ahead. it only has been temporarily paused . of course. and that could mean it could still go ahead. so it's important to keep shining a light on it. but the local mp , light on it. but the local mp, uh, mr dodi, um , claimed it's uh, mr dodi, um, claimed it's the wrong place altogether. but people in response have been saying, well, that's nimbyism, and you've already said that these people need to live somewhere . do you think the somewhere. do you think the people saying that you're just a nimby, do they have a point or they don't understand your locality ? locality? >> i mean , yeah, i mean, my >> i mean, yeah, i mean, my family, um, five generations of my family have lived and worked and put money into the economy , and put money into the economy, um, surrounding this area . um, surrounding this area. >> the you're talking this this place is located in the middle of a fully functioning community. you've got an all girls school up the road, you've

got an all boys school down the road , privately funded. you've road, privately funded. you've got the college across the road, you know, not do. i think it's just unfair on us? um, but actually on them as well. why would you. why would i mean, they're being set up probably not in the best way for them to settle. and um. do do what they've got to do. i don't really understand . and, you really understand. and, you know, another what what they'll be doing on to day basis. be doing on a day to day basis. um, we know i know from friends and family that a universal credit pay pay packet, um, people are struggling to, um, for them to see go from month to month with that. i mean, so these people no doubt will probably be running out of money. they'll be bored, uh, in the middle of a, you know, fully functioning community. so i just think it was it was quite shocking how quickly the council made such a rash decision without informing or, um,

consulting anyone in the community. and for that reason alone, i find it worrying because there has to be a strategy . there has to be a strategy. there has to be a plan. you know, the people there's a lot of people who i know, are welcoming of know, you know, are welcoming of them. these are the people them. well these are the people that sort of get behind that need to sort of get behind them you are we them and come, you know, are we going we going to have going to are we going to have some sort course, to some sort of course, to integrate them into our community, them the community, to teach them the engush is community, to teach them the english is going to be english way or is it going to be a of us having to conform a case of us having to conform to their ways? and you know, when their children go school when their children go to school , schools and it can't , to our schools and it can't just be done overnight, you know, that's my worry. and it's made me lose a lot of trust in the local council. um, and, you know, it's worrying really worrying that they can make such a big decision for somewhere that they've probably not grown up um, which can really up in, um, which can really affect the dynamic of our community. >> um, thank you very much for speaking to us on gb news today. um, gemma lyons , a local mum who um, gemma lyons, a local mum who lives a stone's throw from that block of luxury flats in

farnborough, um, which has been temporarily paused, apparently , temporarily paused, apparently, but it's one we will certainly be keeping an eye on on gb news. now we have a home office spokesperson response and they said this. we have always been upfront the unprecedented upfront about the unprecedented pressure being put on our asylum system brought about by significant increase in dangerous and illegal journeys into the country over recent years. the home office has a duty to provide safe and secure housing for asylum seekers. the site in farnborough will house otherwise destitute families and single adult females while they await their final asylum decisions . we are continuing to decisions. we are continuing to work closely with rushmoor council, as well as the local nhs and police services , to nhs and police services, to manage any impact in the area and address the local communities concerns . okay, communities concerns. okay, moving on a whopping 8.5 million brits have pledged to go sober for dry january. well tim martin, of course, the founder of the pub chain wetherspoons , of the pub chain wetherspoons, has called dry january a cult

and with recent studies showing supermarkets have increased the price of low and non—alcoholic booze by 22% since last month . booze by 22% since last month. what impact is this all having on our hospitality industry? well, joining me now is michael kill ceo of the night time industries . and welcome to the industries. and welcome to the show, michael. i know you've been campaigning on these issues for many, many years and including fighting very , very including fighting very, very hard for the night time industries during lockdowns and covid. you're an absolute pioneer during that . and here we pioneer during that. and here we are again, dry january tim martin is calling it a cult. what does it do to the night time industries? michael well , time industries? michael well, it's another year and another challenge as you can appreciate. >> i mean, we've had for years of a very, very tough trading period. this again is a huge period. uh, this again is a huge challenge. we're not only contending with the cost of, uh, operating crisis . um, but we're operating crisis. um, but we're also contending with the

customer behaviour changes . and, customer behaviour changes. and, you know, this, uh , sober month you know, this, uh, sober month or sobriety month is a challenge. but let's be honest about it. there is this movement towards , uh, no. and low alcohol towards, uh, no. and low alcohol products . uh, people are still products. uh, people are still coming out because those social environments and those experiences, particularly cultural experiences, are really important. you know , the important. but, you know, the one message that i would push alongside my colleagues is to go out support hospitality and, out and support hospitality and, uh, and venues and all of uh, clubs and venues and all of these amazing sort of hospitality and cultural spaces that are really the backbone of many of the communities around the country. >> for me, it's just >> so for me, it's just continued to support whether you come out drink no and come out and you drink no and low, which is in respects low, which is in some respects something been taken up, something that's been taken up, uh, changed alongside things uh, and changed alongside things like premiumization . and so it's like premiumization. and so it's just important to support which is the important bit. but, uh, yes, does present some yes, it does present some challenges and there's maybe some good for news you quickly, because they're looking at a 23% highest hike, beg because they're looking at a 23% high

coming out to your places more often. michael, very quickly, if we could. often. michael, very quickly, if we well,. often. michael, very quickly, if we well, as you can appreciate, >> well, as you can appreciate, i mean, it's always been a challenge between supermarket and and coming out and home drinking and coming out to and bars. to the pubs and bars. >> uh, within the high street. and your local. so for us, it's , and your local. so for us, it's, you know, it's really important that we support those, those you know, it's really important that \businesses, hose, those you know, it's really important that \businesses, something local businesses, something that, uh, it's been a challenge for years but, uh for for, many years now. but, uh , yes, as you know, we're trying to contend with the pricing, uh , to contend with the pricing, uh, challenge challenges, the costs that we're trying to weather. um okay, michael kill, we have to leave it there. >> and of luck in the new >> and best of luck in the new yeah >> and best of luck in the new year. sunak confirmed year. rishi sunak has confirmed the bring the government will bring in a plan exonerate post office plan to exonerate post office scandal victims. have more scandal victims. we'll have more on after this. i'm martin on that after this. i'm martin daubney on news. daubney on gb news. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar of weather on . gb news. >> hello again! it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast. it's feeling cold out there today. there are some

sunny skies around, but otherwise a lot of cloud is covering the country, especially across northern northeastern parts. high pressure currently driving east to northeast easterly winds in across the uk . easterly winds in across the uk. feeling cold in that wind despite the sunshine in the south and a lot of cloud elsewhere, will bring some spots of rain and drizzle to wales , of rain and drizzle to wales, northern and eastern england, southern scotland that will tend to fade through the night clear skies south will lead to skies in the south will lead to a many places, although a frost in many places, although there will patchy cloud there will be some patchy cloud cover developing —1 to —2 celsius the south. a frost celsius in the south. a frost also likely for western scotland under clear spells, but elsewhere where we've got the cloud, it's going to be a frost free start to thursday, with temperatures of 6 celsius temperatures of 4 to 6 celsius across east wales into the midlands, eastern england, southern and eastern scotland . southern and eastern scotland. we've got less of a wind on thursday, so perhaps not feeling quite as cold in the south. we've got a sunny start in the south, but increasingly the cloud builds from the northeast, keeping the sunshine towards the far increasing far southwest, increasing

sunshine across central and western scotland. otherwise a lot of cloud, fewer showers lot of cloud, but fewer showers around with today into around compared with today into friday. a frosty start for scotland and northern ireland. clear skies here generally cloudy elsewhere and into the weekend. a big change in the weather comes along as arctic winds arrive with snow showers for scotland . for scotland. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsor of weather on .

gb news way. >> good afternoon , it's 5 pm. >> good afternoon, it's 5 pm. welcome to the martin daubney show on gb news broadcasting live from the heart of westminster and all across the uk. now there's some great news today for hundreds of post office branch managers wrongly convicted. the prime minister's promised to bring in a new law to exonerate them. rishi sunak is getting ready for a battle with tory mps over the rwanda bill, with one influential former minister saying the plan, quote, simply doesn't work and congrats to sadiq khan. he's turned london into the slowest city in the world. that's all coming in your next hour. city in the world. that's all coming in your next hour . and as coming in your next hour. and as usual, i'd like to hear from you. imam, please

gbviews@gbnews.com what next for the post office scandal? is it time for fujitsu to get their big wallets out? £27 billion. the company is worth. they've got deep pockets . is it time for got deep pockets. is it time for them to get some compensation in moving for the postmasters ? what moving for the postmasters? what about sadiq khan? your favourite mayor? the world's slowest city and other bad news all coming up of course. aslef for your latest news headlines with polly middlehurst . martin. middlehurst. martin. >> thank you. well, the top stories this hour post office workers caught up in the horizon . it scandal could have their names cleared by the end of this yeah names cleared by the end of this year. postal services minister kevin hollinrake says new legislation to exonerate subpostmasters and mistresses in england and wales will be introduced within weeks. there'll also be an up front payment of £75,000 to compensate those who were jailed or bankrupted as a result of flawed

computer software, which wrongly showed money was missing. mr hollinrake says victims will get the justice they deserve. i intend to bring forward legislation as soon as we can to overturn the convictions of all those convicted in england or wales on the basis of post office evidence given during the honzon office evidence given during the horizon scandal . horizon scandal. >> the government will, in the coming days, consider whether to include the small number of cases that have already been considered by the appeal court and the convictions upheld . and the convictions upheld. >> well, lord arbuthnot, who is an mp at the time of the scandal, is pleased with the result. >> very pleased indeed. the government has moved very quickly and the drama has had a galvanising effect. i am delighted both because it means that convictions are going to be overturned, which otherwise are simply wouldn't have been. and because as it looks as though

there's going to be a usefully speeded up way of dealing with compensation, or as we must now call it, redress , um, but what call it, redress, um, but what are the victims of the post office scandal? >> vijay parekh spoke to gb news earlier. he said more should be done. >> all the people who are involved in this get the same treatment. we have had all this, uh, convicted , uh, postmasters uh, convicted, uh, postmasters and we let them feel how we felt. we've done nothing and we've been imprisoned. they have done something. so they need to be imprisoned for the reason, what they've done . what they've done. >> in other news, today, the uk has helped fight off the largest ever attack by houthi rebels of international shipping in the red sea. the defence secretary says the royal navy's destroyer hms diamond, along with us military support, successfully destroyed multiple attack drones. grant shapps described the attacks as completely unacceptable and warned there

would be further consequence as hms diamond, amongst a number of other us ships, were involved in shooting down a whole barrage of missiles and drones. >> hms diamond herself shot down seven drones as remember, this is not usual. it was over three decades until a couple of weeks ago that the royal navy had not fired anything down in anger, and we cannot have a situation where a major sea route, a major ability to move goods around the world, is being cut off by terrorists and thugs. and we therefore must act . therefore must act. >> police say half of all child sexual abuse cases reported to police in 2022 were crimes committed by minors . that's committed by minors. that's according to data gathered by police in england and wales. half of the offences involved a child aged 10 to 17, as a suspect or perpetrator in what the force called a growing and concerning trend. the figures are up from a third in 2013,

when a nottinghamshire police constable is under investigation for possible driving offences following the death of an eight year old, a retired photographer, trevor bartlett, was hit by a police van on a pedestrian crossing in nottingham in december. the constable, who was driving the van, has been accused of causing death dangerous and careless, death by dangerous and careless, inconsiderate driving . the inconsiderate driving. the officer has also been served with a gross misconduct notice for potential breaches of police standards for professional behaviour in central america , behaviour in central america, violence erupted on the streets of ecuador yesterday, with police checkpoints and helicopters patrolling major cities after drug cartels took on the state. ecuador's president daniel noboa, declared a state of emergency following the prison escape of one of the country's most notorious drug lords. and yesterday, gunmen burst into a live tv studio waving guns and wearing masks while holding the crew hostage . while holding the crew hostage. the military were deployed onto the streets and police confirmed suspects had been detained and arrests made . here the estimated

arrests made. here the estimated cost of building the zone two rail link between london and birmingham has soared to £666 birmingham has soared to £66.6 billion. the chairman of the project, sirjohn billion. the chairman of the project, sir john thompson, told mps the increase was due to the original budget estimates being too low , poor standards of too low, poor standards of delivery and inflation. in 2013, hs2 was estimated . to cost £375 hs2 was estimated. to cost £37.5 billion. that's for the entire planned network that included the now scrapped sections from birmingham to manchester and leeds , and the princess royal leeds, and the princess royal has been welcomed to sri lanka with a traditional dance display. princess anne is visiting the south asian country with her husband to mark 75 years of diplomatic relations. dufing years of diplomatic relations. during the three day visit, the princess will meet the country's president and first lady. she'll also meet local community leaders and faith groups in the capital colombo . that's the news

capital colombo. that's the news on gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker. this is britain's news channel . is britain's news channel. >> thank you polly. now we start with the latest dramatic developments in the post office scandal. and there's great news for the hundreds of people who were wrongly convicted. rishi sunak has confirmed the government will bring in a new law to exonerate the branch managers caught up in the honzon managers caught up in the horizon . it scandal. i'm joined horizon. it scandal. i'm joined by our political editor, christopher hope. chris, you called this yesterday . today you called this yesterday. today you broke the news. rishi was going to this new law, this new to pass this new law, this new bill to exonerate those hundreds of postmasters and postmistresses . that's indeed postmistresses. that's indeed happened today at prime minister's question time. >> yeah, kind of no surprise , >> yeah, kind of no surprise, but to say it's quite a dramatic moment. it's almost historic to have parliament to publish a bill as some legislation to overrule what's happened in the courts, because technically,

parliament is a court and courts don't like to clash with other courts, if you see what i mean. so it's dramatic, but it needs to happen because the inquiry into this miscarriage of justice was meant to finish in 2022. that hasn't hasn't happened. no sign it ending any time soon. sign of it ending any time soon. i think the politics simply boiled up below the inquiry and it's gone straight through the back door and out the front door to with this problem to deal with this problem straight away. 980 subpostmasters are convicted . subpostmasters are convicted. just 93 overturned, 1 in 10. thatis just 93 overturned, 1 in 10. that is going far too slow. some have died, of course, as we know , don't we? the announcement today from the prime minister, £75,000 up front, um, many more. thousands of pounds to come for these people, these poor people affected . he called it affected by this. he called it one the greatest miscarriages one of the greatest miscarriages of our nation's of justice in our nation's history. um, he said it's very clear that these this needs to get on with it and get on fast. now, what will happen going forward is this bill will be published in few weeks time. published in a few weeks time. should labour but should get labour support. but labour's chairman, anneliese dodds told us on our show today,

pmqs live, that they'll wait and see the detail of what's in there, but the idea behind it is supported by the leaders of all the main parties, those who, who, who are working . victor who, who are working. victor will be asked to sign a piece of paper to say, i never took any money legally from the post office. mean all the office. that will mean all the convictions are expunged, but if they're to they're found after the event to have taken money by the police or whoever they can be prosecuted fraud. so this is prosecuted for fraud. so this is why it with a why they think it ties it with a nice deal with the problem. nice bow deal with the problem. this is the beginning of a long scandal . we haven't yet seen scandal. we haven't yet seen what happen fujitsu , what will happen with fujitsu, the behind it. the the company behind it. the honzon the company behind it. the horizon software that went so wrong for these people, the cost of payments to the, um, the of the payments to the, um, the subpostmasters. who pays that? is that fujitsu or not? or the taxpayer as currently seen . and taxpayer as currently seen. and of course there's a political fallout because there might well be emails , some some notes be some emails, some some notes from ministers at the time who who didn't want to meet alan bates , who didn't want to see bates, who didn't want to see him or, or raise her concerns

but were too credulous in believing what the post office was saying. we'll see that played . played out. >> let's talk first about >> but let's talk first about the finance sums involved the finance bill. sums involved could be eye—watering, astonishing amounts of money. um, it's set in some of the literature today. could be as much as potentially £600,000 each for some of the postmasters, it might depend on the age of the subpostmaster. >> often these payments are settled on what that person would have earned if they hadn't received , um, a conviction. they received, um, a conviction. they weren't meant to get. so a very young suppose master might say, well, my entire life has been ruined. my life of earnings and the money will replace those earnings. older subpostmasters might get less but £600,000 sounds like an average , so some sounds like an average, so some figures will be a lot more than that, and some are a lot less than that. >> and some of course, sadly died their lives. i died and took their lives. i wonder they get wonder if they will get compensation their relatives. compensation or their relatives. they justice they if there are any justice they be tied to they should that will be tied to caring costs. >> so if that person was a carer and wasn't around to care for somebody cost

somebody else, the cost of providing will be providing that care will be paid for the state. that's for by the state. so that's where that comes from where that comes comes from eye—watering where that comes comes from eye but itering where that comes comes from eye but then; where that comes comes from eye but then again, where that comes comes from eyebut then again, jitsu >> but then again, jiu jitsu fujitsu your have fujitsu beg your pardon. have very pockets 24 billion. very deep pockets 24 billion. they're at and indeed they're valued at and indeed they still benefit from very handsome government contracts . handsome government contracts. 200 public contracts were 200 public contracts indeed were worth the thick end of £7 billion. they're not short of a bob or two. should the bob or two. why should the taxpayer up bill? taxpayer pick up this bill? >> will come from >> well, that will come out from the inquiry. the inquiry the inquiry. now, if the inquiry finds the fujitsu were finds that the fujitsu were on the for and should pay the hook for this and should pay out, be very hard out, then that'll be very hard for to resist that. now, of for them to resist that. now, of course, are heavily course, fujitsu are heavily involved in all sorts of government contracts and we've been 10 say been pressing number 10 to say why a stay on all new why it put a stay on all new contracts given to fujitsu, maybe even stripped them out of the government infrastructure. that's say, that's very hard, they say, because would because in fact it would mean that services that some government services would affected. so they would be badly affected. so they are with this supplier. are stuck with this supplier. but forward , any new but going forward, any new contracts, let's let's fujitsu could look like a reward for failure because of their behaviour over the post office scandal. >> okay. now earlier on, chris, ispoke >> okay. now earlier on, chris, i spoke to ian henderson. he's the co—founder of second sight,

which is a forensic accountants company. they found problems with the post office horizon it system many years before the subpostmasters convictions even started to be quashed . started to be quashed. >> yeah, we were pointed by, um , >> yeah, we were pointed by, um, a group of mps in 2000 and 12 to independent investigate concerns about horizon . um, and we issued about horizon. um, and we issued our report, which i think shocked many people, shocked mps and led to the formation of a mediation working group because we were dealing with applications from about 140 subpostmasters who felt that their concerns had not been properly um or been taken seriously . uh, properly um or been taken seriously. uh, and it was that mediation sort of working group that was the first step in getting some form of redress for individual subpostmasters . individual subpostmasters. >> and you came up with the information which the post office didn't like. you raised

concerns . they didn't like the concerns. they didn't like the sound of those concerns , and sound of those concerns, and they simply terminated your employment. is that correct ? employment. is that correct? >> they terminated our contracts and they also terminated their support for the mediation sort of working group. um, so it was it was a bit of a double whammy, which was unfortunate for for, subpostmasters and ultimately probably not for the in the best interests of the post office either . ehheh >> and this was in 2015. it's now 2023, eight years. it started in 2012. >> we continued working for post office and on behalf of um, well, we were appointed by members of parliament, um, and we worked for about sort of three years and matters all came to a head in 2000, 15. and by then we had substantially issued about 140 reports on individual cases affecting sub postmasters. so 140 clear cases of evidence,

eight years ago, the post office got the information which they'd asked for, they'd paid for, they'd employed you to provide when you gave it. >> they didn't like what they heard, and so they got rid of you. this is utterly scandalous. >> i think that was a view of many mps and certainly many of the participants in the mediation working group. i remember talking to alan bates at the time , who who formed the at the time, who who formed the justice for subpostmasters alliance , and he he regarded alliance, and he he regarded that the inevitable consequence of the withdrawal of post office from supporting that scheme was he had no option then but to head for for, litigation, and he rapidly moved over a period of 2 or 3 years towards the group litigation order, which was a civil claim on behalf of, i think it was 555 former subpostmasters against post office . christian i at the time office. christian i at the time i did that interview with ian henderson, i couldn't believe

what he was saying. >> watching it back, i just find it astonishing that here's it just astonishing that here's a company that was brought in to paid asked to perform a full paid and asked to perform a full audh paid and asked to perform a full audit on horizon within the post office. they did that over three years. they presented their evidence eight years ago in 2015. and when the post office saw the evidence, they fired them because they didn't get the answers didn't want answers they wanted, didn't want to to what was happening . to listen to what was happening. >> goes back to the heart of >> it goes back to the heart of this it's so this story and why it's so damaging politically. i think because officials, because it had officials, ministers. ed davey will ministers. sir ed davey will come to him shortly. post office minister 2010 2012. they preferred to believe computers against people . now that is a against people. now that is a politically a disaster idea. the computer can't can't mislead and in fact, paula vennells um the cbe to be removed by the king shortly was given that honour by the tory government in 2019 after dozens of these convictions were quashed. even when the evidence was there, they were being quashed. he still got her honour. >> and do you think, chris, that the public outrage over this

case is a rage not just against the injustice that the individuals suffered, but a rage, a feeling of impotence? the public don't count pillars of the community, the post office masters and mistresses, you know , standard public you know, standard public servants, the first interface of officialdom for, for, for millions and millions, particularly of pensioners, people they respect been trampled on. and yet years and years, successive governments , years, successive governments, every political party, none of them have come out smelling of roses . roses. >> well, that's one of the journalists who broke the mp expenses scandal back in 2009. and this is this is a bit like that. yeah. not in the same scale , but there's a sense that scale, but there's a sense that the country united the whole country is united behind in a behind this injustice. and in a sense, back in the mp expenses scandal is a feeling that they're lying their they're all lying in their pockets and pockets at our expense. and that, , was dealing that, of course, was dealing with a whole political class and that, of course, was dealing wi'led whole political class and that, of course, was dealing wi'led whole |out ical class and that, of course, was dealing wi'led whole |out of l class and that, of course, was dealing wi'led whole |out of parliament to led a clear out of parliament the resignation of the speaker of house commons at the of the house of commons at the time. that kind anger, of the house of commons at the timyas that kind anger, of the house of commons at the timyas extreme,;ind anger, of the house of commons at the timyas extreme, but anger, of the house of commons at the timyas extreme, but that1ger, of the house of commons at the timyas extreme, but that kind of not as extreme, but that kind of angehis not as extreme, but that kind of anger, is what seeing in our anger, is what i'm seeing in our emails at gb and from

emails here at gb news and from viewers listeners . and just viewers and listeners. and just a to this. and is a reaction to this. and this is why i think it's the beginning a reaction to this. and this is wia i think it's the beginning a reaction to this. and this is wia wake k it's the beginning a reaction to this. and this is wia wake up:'s the beginning a reaction to this. and this is wia wake up callie beginning a reaction to this. and this is wia wake up call foreginning a reaction to this. and this is wia wake up call for the|ning of a wake up call for the establishment to listen to people don't trust machines, listen and these aren't listen to and these aren't people. these are these are pillars of the community, these subpostmasters, deserve subpostmasters, they deserve the respect none of respect that they got. none of it. reckoning for it. and now is a reckoning for our political class . our political class. >> rishi tried to make >> rishi sunak tried to make that good today and went a great deal towards doing that by introducing this new bill. but of as i said, you know, of course, as i said, you know, political parties of all stripes haven't done well this. haven't done well out of this. you talks about ed davey and let's look at that now, because the minister's the first prime minister's questions took place questions of the year took place this lunchtime. in fact, i was there and lee anderson had the first question. and as you'd expect , he made sure the session expect, he made sure the session started with a bang by asking about sir davey. this is the about sir ed davey. this is the same liberal democrat leader who in the past has called for the resignation of over 30 prominent people in this country who have made mistakes in their job. made mistakes in theirjob. >> so does the prime minister agree with me that the leader of

the lib dems should take his own advice and clearing his advice and start by clearing his desk, clear his diary and clear off usual, chris lee off as usual, chris lee anderson, about as subtle as a house brick to the head, but does he have a point? >> davey was the post >> ed davey was the post minister at the time, or are they trying to deflect from they just trying to deflect from their incompetence? they just trying to deflect from the i incompetence? they just trying to deflect from the i think ncompetence? they just trying to deflect from the! think heympetence? they just trying to deflect from the! think he hasetence? they just trying to deflect from the! think he has got:e? they just trying to deflect from the! think he has got a? they just trying to deflect from the! think he has got a point. >> i think he has got a point. there is anger about, uh, sir ed davey sir ed davey he got his knighthood for political and pubuc knighthood for political and public 2015. he was public service in 2015. he was post office minister from 2010 to 2012. lee anderson, not for the first time, has got his finger on the pulse of public opinion. i would argue there is a petition put down today by a change.org . over 7200 change.org. over 7200 signatures. there's 5667 signed today demanding that he return his knighthood over the post office scandal. now we revealed yesterday how sir davey is saying he won't hand back his knighthood. he blames being misled by the post office . at misled by the post office. at the believed them and the time he believed them and the time he believed them and the rest of it, but i think

there political reckoning, there was a political reckoning, i but yes, for sir ed i think. but yes, for sir ed davey he was that was back in 2010, 2012 for this tory government. been in government. they've been in power for 14 years. they've allowed get allowed that no one to get punished or dealt with. inquiry was laid to be set up. there are questions for this government . questions for this government. and forget the labour and also don't forget the labour government that brought in the honzon government that brought in the horizon programme in the first place. these place. it's across all of these people concrete people like the rac concrete with with schools. when the rules are caving in, it's a plague on all their houses. martin >> yeah, a lot of them could have done something about it. and indeed keir starmer was being yesterday. and indeed keir starmer was being charge yesterday. and indeed keir starmer was being charge of yesterday. and indeed keir starmer was being charge of the esterday. and indeed keir starmer was being charge of the director. he was in charge of the director of prosecutions the of public prosecutions at the time. he involved time. why didn't he get involved . and the they, they . and indeed the they, they actually went about a actually went after about a dozen postmasters themselves , dozen postmasters themselves, the dpp. dozen postmasters themselves, the yeah we think yeah , a low >> yeah we think yeah, a low dozens, maybe 12 or a few more than that. now mostly these are private prosecutions by the post office . they lose their office. they may lose their right prosecute in future, right to prosecute in future, but a small number were done by the crown prosecution service. what did sir keir starmer know? nigel has talking nigel farage has been talking about course , on his

about that. of course, on his programme. tory mps again today raised that in house of commons and yesterday it's been made clear the government the cps clear by the government the cps could have stepped in and stopped these inquiries if they felt evidence to . they felt they had evidence to. they didn't. they ? so keir didn't. why didn't they? so keir starmer would have been aware of the coverage in newspapers and elsewhere. why didn't he step in? are questions for all in? there are questions for all politicians . sir keir starmer is politicians. sir keir starmer is no exception . no exception. >> and lee anderson's >> yeah, and lee anderson's comments have provoked a reaction from daisy cooper , who reaction from daisy cooper, who of course is the deputy leader of course is the deputy leader of the lib dems. she said this tory lee anderson trying to score political points over the honzon score political points over the horizon scandal at pmqs, is beneath even standards . beneath even his low standards. everyone can see this for what it is an attempt by the tories to distract from their own terrible failures. lee, of course, has nibbled back , saying course, has nibbled back, saying and yet certain people are just waiting to take sir ed's job. ring any bells ? ring any bells? >> well, she's got a point , >> well, she's got a point, frankly. daisy. daisy has that i mean, she. yes, of course it's not. i think all politicians are

panicking about where the blame might lie. they're trying to point fingers at ed davey. of course. he ran the show in the post office. minister 2010 to 2012. the since then have been tories in those posts. what were they doing? so i think daisy cooper can say that and lee anderson can say that. but i think viewers will think people and viewers will see through as see through it all as politicians about politicians panicking about where of blame might where the finger of blame might point next, frankly. >> and chris, i think a lot of people out there will echo your sentiment. a moment ago, a plague on all houses. plague on all their houses. chris thank very much. chris hope, thank you very much. always now, always a pleasure. now, the controversial bill is controversial rwanda bill is back in commons next tuesday back in the commons next tuesday and rishi sunak is braced for yet another tory revolt. a battle with the right wing of his party and, i would say the left wing to i'm martin daubney on gb news britain's

that i knew had dewbs& co weeknights from six. >> welcome back. >> welcome back. >> it's 525. you're watching or listening to martin daubney on gb news later this hour. we'll look ahead to next week's commons debate on the rwanda bill. just how many tory mps are going to revolt and give rishi sunak another tough time ? while sunak another tough time? while sadiq khan never tires of telling us that london is the greatest city in the world and thanks to the mayor, the capital is a world beater. but on this front, london is now the world's slowest city to drive in thanks

to cons. cons 20 mile per hour speed limit . it takes more than speed limit. it takes more than 37 minutes to drive ten kilometres, or just over six miles in central london last yeah miles in central london last year, and dublin is in second place now that news broke in the same week that khan extended his free school meals for all kids for another year. the trouble is, those free school meals aren't free at all. they actually cost £140 million for the taxpayer was. and while it's emerged that tube drivers want an inflation busting 12% pay rise after khan found the cash to stop this week's tube strikes , the aslef union says the mayor has found, quote, the magic money tree and our members expect to share the fruits. well, joining me now is former labour adviser and friend of the show, paul richards . paul, show, paul richards. paul, welcome to the show. so sadiq khan getting a triple whammy. and i note paul, even the

evening standard in london normally sadiq khan's almost fan sheet very very critical of the aversion of strike action. £30 million to stop the tube strikes and now aslef demanding even more. is this a taste of what could come under a labour government ? and is it proof that government? and is it proof that sadiq khan is bowing to the unions? >> well, it's a taste of the fact it's a general election year and it's a london election year and it's a london election year and it's a london election year and everything's heating up. i mean, first of all, it would have cost london about £50 million if the strikes had gone ahead. just in the hospitality sector . sector. >> um, never mind all the other businesses that rely on the transport system working. >> should first of all, we >> so should first of all, we should applauding the mayor should be applauding the mayor for city working for keeping the city working this week. >> and avoid a crippling >> and to avoid a crippling strike well done on that strike so. well done on that front. >> um , putting food in the >> um, putting food in the bellies of kids. >> we all know that means they learn more. >> they have better chances

>> they have better life chances . and, it helps them get . um, and, uh, it helps them get to school on time as well. in a week when we learn that there are millions of kids gone missing from school. so that's a good also, um, these good thing. also, um, these are things being up things that are being racked up as successes labour m ayor. mayor. >> i would argue. >> i would argue. >> there's no such >> well, but there's no such thing a lunch. although thing as a free lunch. although that stop jamie oliver, that didn't stop jamie oliver, uh, rushing to applaud sadiq khan yesterday because the fact of the matter is, these free lunches cost london taxpayers £140 million. i thought the capital was broke . no doubt capital was broke. no doubt people would welcome, for example , many more police example, many more police officers . officers. >> they're free at the point of need , aren't they? need, aren't they? >> they. >> they. >> i mean the kids don't pay for them. um, same as the nhs is not free in the sense that there's no money involved. >> free those that >> but it's free to those that are service when >> but it's free to those that are need service when they need it. >> and it the fact that >> and it goes the fact that it's wide, every kid it's capital wide, every kid gets it. >> i think is a really good thing because we all know that, you that is you know, a child that is hungry, learn and is hungry, cannot learn and is badly classes. >> and kids that are well >> and the kids that are well fed are there on time and are

more likely to have a good day at yes, would also at school. yes, we would also like the streets like more police on the streets too. mean, that's you know, too. i mean, that's you know, that's same argument that's not the same argument though, it is because because >> well, it is because because sadiq a is the de facto sadiq khan is a is the de facto police and crime commissioner for have a terrible for london. we have a terrible problem with knife crime in london. one problem with knife crime in londopeople one problem with knife crime in londo people talk one problem with knife crime in londo people talk about one problem with knife crime in londopeople talk about onme. thing people talk about to me. all the time, and yet no money seems to come from khan for that. to again. that. and i put it to you again. the neediest and the poorest children in london already get free school and that's free school meals. and that's the correct thing to do. my mrs. as a teacher, many parents don't need free school meals, but khan's plan gives it away to all parents, including middle class parents, including middle class parents can afford meals . parents who can afford meals. and that is picked and my point is that is picked up and my point is that is picked ”p by and my point is that is picked up by the taxpayer. there is no such as a free lunch . such thing as a free lunch. >> i suppose the point there would be that it reduces the stigma of being on free school meals. >> uh, you know, for people, even grown ups can remember that stigma of being marked out as a poor kid that couldn't afford their own food. >> if you give it to everybody, everyone's in the same boat. they sit together, you

they can all sit together, you know great about know, the great thing about london different social london is the different social classes in the schools . classes mix in the schools. >> you know, people from rich backgrounds, poor backgrounds and removing that stigma. i think is a really positive thing, as well all the other thing, as well as all the other outcomes positive. outcomes that are positive. >> say about better >> like i say about better learning and better behaviour and time as so and time keeping as well. so it's thing. it's a positive thing. >> other countries >> that's why other countries and other within the uk and other cities within the uk are looking at this as being a really positive know, really positive idea, you know, not something pooh poohed, not something to be pooh poohed, but actually something be but actually something to be emulated and copied. so, you know, pat on know, let's give him a pat on the back, okay, paul, something that's be emulated or copied. >> it's something that to >> it's something that is to be pooh you'd have pooh poohed. surely you'd have to now the to agree. london is now the world's city. no, no world's slowest city. no, no thanks in part to low traffic neighbourhoods, endless 20 mile an hour limits. you get nicked for doing 22. an immediate fine, low traffic neighbourhoods, endless bus lanes, speed cameras , ultra low emission zones and um, just areas that are just slowing london down to a walking pace. slowing london down to a walking pace . that's not the sign of a pace. that's not the sign of a progressive city. that's a sign of a city going back to the victorian era .

victorian era. >> well, those numbers relate to driving cars around london, and it is pretty horrific. i get lots of black cabs. i'm a great supporter of the great black cab trade in london, and i hear the complaints every day that i do that. >> but there are lots of alternatives to that. and uh, you know, most of the city is very, very walkable. >> um, and you know, the great thing about london is that you don't need to go the tube don't need to go on the tube or even you walk even the bus. you can walk between most of the places you need to get to, certainly in the centre. secondly, we have a pretty system and it's pretty good bus system and it's the cheapest in the uk. you go out london, people can't the cheapest in the uk. you go out lhow n, people can't the cheapest in the uk. you go out lhow muchyple can't the cheapest in the uk. you go out lhow much the can't the cheapest in the uk. you go out lhow much the buses are . believe how much the buses are. >> uh, so what is it? believe how much the buses are. >> 175 so what is it? believe how much the buses are. >> 175 i;o what is it? believe how much the buses are. >> 175 i thinkit is it? believe how much the buses are. >> 175 i think on; it? believe how much the buses are. >> 175 i think on at? believe how much the buses are. >> 175 i think on a london bus >>175 i think on a london bus now. so, you know, that's pretty good value. we've got the river. um, unbelievably um, and the tube is unbelievably efficient know, we efficient. you know, i know we get frustrated when it's delayed, know, you delayed, but, you know, you stand the next one is stand there and the next one is in three minutes time. >> think that's a long time >> we think that's a long time to wait. >> 5 countries. >> go to other countries. >> go to other countries. >> you it's a lot, lot worse. >> so should count our >> so we should count our blessings should get out blessings and we should get out of cars. of our cars. >> is the answer. >> is the answer. >> okay, paul richards, if only

>> is the answer. >> okkhan,ul richards, if only >> is the answer. >> okkhan, we're hards, if only >> is the answer. >> okkhan, we're going if only >> is the answer. >> okkhan, we're going to>nly >> is the answer. >> okkhan, we're going to have sadiq khan, we're going to have his £300,000 rover onto sadiq khan, we're going to have his £3(transport. rover onto sadiq khan, we're going to have his £3(transport. thanksr onto sadiq khan, we're going to have his £3(transport. thanks for onto public transport. thanks for joining show, paul joining us on the show, paul richards. now richards. always a pleasure. now there's come there's lots more still to come between now 6:00. i'll between now and 6:00. i'll discuss claim that discuss stephen fry's claim that the caps worn by the king's guards at buckingham palace should be from fake fur. should be made from fake fur. but your latest news but first, your latest news headunes but first, your latest news headlines polly middlehurst headlines with polly middlehurst i >> -- >> thanks, martin. the top stories this hour. post office workers caught up in the horizon. it scandal will have their convictions overturned by signing to their innocence on a single document. postal services minister kevin hollinrake said today. the new emergency legislation to exonerate the workers may take weeks, but insists it is a government priority . there'll also be an up priority. there'll also be an up front compensation payment of £75,000 to compensate them for being pilloried , jailed or being pilloried, jailed or bankrupted as a result of flawed computer software, which wrongly indicated they'd been stealing

post office money. vijay parekh was one of the victims of the scandal . he said those scandal. he said those responsible must be held accountable. >> all the people who are involved in this get the same treatment . we have had all this , treatment. we have had all this, uh, convicted , uh, postmasters uh, convicted, uh, postmasters and let them feel how we felt. we've done nothing and we've been imprisoned. they have done something. so they need to be imprisoned for the reason, what they've done . they've done. >> the defence secretary says the uk has helped fight off the largest ever attack by iranian backed houthi rebels in international shipping lanes over night, the royal navy's destroyer hms diamond, supported by the united states military, successfully destroyed multiple attack drones swarming over container shipping in the red sea, grant shapps said the attacks were completely unacceptable and warned there would be further consequences as yemeni militants have been targeting commercial shipping in support of hamas and its war

with israel . the estimated cost with israel. the estimated cost of building hs2 between london and birmingham has soared to as much as 66. £6 billion, the chairman of the project told mps. the increase is due to original estimates being too low. poor delivery standards and inflation. in 2013, hs2 is estimated to cost £375 inflation. in 2013, hs2 is estimated to cost £37.5 billion for the entire planned network, which included the now scrapped sections from birmingham to manchester and leeds . those are manchester and leeds. those are the headlines more detail on all those stories by heading to our website, gbnews.com . for website, gbnews.com. for a valuable legacy your family can own. >> gold coins will always shine bright. rosalind gold proudly sponsors the gb news financial report , a quick snapshot for you report, a quick snapshot for you of today's markets and the pound buying . you $1.2727, that is,

buying. you $1.2727, that is, and ,1.1608. >> the price of gold is £1,593, and £0.36 an ounce. and the ftse 100 has closed the day to day . 100 has closed the day to day. at 7651 points. rosalind gold proudly sponsors the gb news financial report . financial report. >> thank you polly and joining me now once again for my favourite part of the show. and i really do mean it. it's michelle juby of course, dewbs& co coming up after this 6 or 7 jobs, what's on your menu? hello. >> of course. how we not? we >> of course. how can we not? we are course, looking at the are of course, looking at the post scandal and post office horizon scandal and that is development there. that list is development there. >> whether it's the right >> whether or not it's the right step is it a little bit step forward, is it a little bit too little? been looking at too little? i've been looking at some subpostmasters some of the subpostmasters reactions found that reactions to that. found that very interesting. also as well . very interesting. also as well. the ten depressing towns the ten most depressing towns have been named. so i'm really interested to see if any of my

viewers live in the places mentioned. or do they live in a really depressing town that they think should be on the list? but it didn't quite make the grade? and really importantly, i want to earth do you to debate how on earth do you kind those of towns kind of turn those kind of towns around? also as well, martin, around? i also as well, martin, i want to ask free school i want to ask about free school meals. course, meals. sadiq khan, of course, has rolled across london. has rolled it out across london. jamie oliver is piped up now. he says that whole scheme should be rolled out nationwide and last but not least, i want to ask why 7 why? but not least, i want to ask why ? why? um, a rural voters now seemingly turning to labour. what's going on there ? yeah, yeah. >> jobs. you know, there's free school meals thing. it's kind of really got me going because there's no such thing as a free lunch. think that, um, that lunch. you think that, um, that jamie oliver might understand that actually £140 million that it's actually £140 million that's paid for by london taxpayers and london's poorest kids? my missus is a teacher. they already get free school meals, and that's a good thing . meals, and that's a good thing. do you think this is just con buying votes? >> we'll have to wait for dewbs &

co. >> and i'll tell you exactly what i think to that. uh annunciator. mark as well. she's joining me as is matthew stadlen. so we've got lots of different opinions on this one, but i do find it quite interesting if somebody is wealthy. and let's face they wealthy. and let's face it, they can afford to feed their own kids. people that are on kids. should people that are on lower incomes not as wealthy , lower incomes not as wealthy, have for that meal have to pay for that meal because like you say, there is literally no such thing as a free lunch . martin. free lunch. martin. >> superb. a tasty menu, tasty treats coming up on dewbs& co i think it should be a parent's job to feed your kids unless you really need it and don't rely on the state. that's just me. jubes and co and panel no doubt and co and her panel no doubt will much more to say. will have much more to say. superb. coming superb. that's coming up straight their p.m. see straight after their 6 pm. see you the supermarket you soon. now the supermarket chain morrisons has unveiled a new to fight the new weapon to fight the shoplifting epidemic. it's called cameras . they're called robocop cameras. they're designed to stop people nicking expensive booze on martin daubney on gb news, britain's news

only on gb news, the people's channel only on gb news, the people's channel, britain's news channel . channel, britain's news channel. >> welcome back. it's 541. you're watching or listening to martin daubney on gb news now. it's one of those classic london images. the sight of the kingsguard wearing magnificent bearskin caps while guarding buckingham palace. but now there are renewed calls for them to stop using real fur. the actor and writer stephen fry has backed a campaign by animal rights group peta . a film says rights group peta. a film says bears are mercilessly killed by

trophy hunters and is calling for fake fur to be used instead . for fake fur to be used instead. and to discuss this, i'm now joined by jennifer white from peta , who is calling for that peta, who is calling for that ban. jennifer, welcome to the show . so, um, it's a fantastic show. so, um, it's a fantastic british tradition, a noble and long standing one for hundreds of years. the bearskin hat. gayle guarding the palace. tell us why you think that tradition should come to an end . should come to an end. >> well, the investigation footage speaks for itself. >> it's so disturbing. >> it's so disturbing. >> you're seeing bears being shot. disembowel and dismembered by canadian hunters. um, which, of course , you know, is the of course, you know, is the origin of these bearskin caps and the footage shows these bears being baited by hunters with cookies and bagels, and then these poor , unsuspecting then these poor, unsuspecting animals are shot, sometimes with crossbows , which are actually crossbows, which are actually illegal here in the uk. and then we know that these pelts often end up at auction houses where

the cap makers buy the fur. to make these ceremony caps. and it is just absolutely unacceptable that the british government is supporting the slaughter of black bears. when we know that there is a humane, viable faux fur alternative ready to be rolled out . rolled out. >> um, some of the defences for this is that the bear skin can be replicated in fake fur. it keeps its shape superbly well. a fake fur alternative doesn't do that. it's waterproof , it's that. it's waterproof, it's warm. it's close fitting. however other similar moves have been made against leopard skin . been made against leopard skin. of course, it was used by drummers and now there is no real leopard skin. do you think the winds of change are on your side and we will see a ban on abc lutely. >> we will get there. the tide is definitely turning. we know that the british public has turned their back on fur , with turned their back on fur, with 95% of them rejecting it, and the claims that the faux fur cap isn't meeting the standards is just complete nonsense , because

just complete nonsense, because the ministry of defence hasn't even seen so much as a faux fur sample. but the faux fur has been independently tested at an mod accredited laboratory , and mod accredited laboratory, and it actually showed that it outperformed the real bear fur. and of course , the aesthetic of and of course, the aesthetic of the cap is going to be absolutely identical to the original. and we need to remember that this is a ceremonial . ceremonial headdress. >> um, it's interesting because i'm stephen fry, so tradition is never an excuse for cruelty , and never an excuse for cruelty, and few would disagree with that . few would disagree with that. but it is a cherished part of the fabric . it's an iconic piece the fabric. it's an iconic piece of headwear. what do you say to people who say, you know, you're just poking your nose and looking for trouble? go and bark up different tree . up a different tree. >> well, at first, tell them to watch the investigation . um, but watch the investigation. um, but the look of the cap will remain that traditional, um, iconic look that the caps have. but the material itself is irrelevant . material itself is irrelevant. and we know that the faux fur alternative is waterproof. it's the exact same length as bear

fur . it's water resistant, and fur. it's water resistant, and it's also lighter, which actually enhances the user experience for the guards because the current fur is incredibly heavy , which is why incredibly heavy, which is why we see so many of them fainting when there's a heatwave. >> okay, jennifer white from peta, thank you for giving us food for thought. baskin hats. should they be a thing of the past now? rishi sunak is braced for a commons showdown over his rwanda plan once again after being warned by tory mps that the proposal will not work unless it is significantly beefed up . a large number of beefed up. a large number of right wing tories are backing amendments to the bill, aimed at effectively ignoring international law and robert jenrick who quit as immigration minister over the bill. if you recall, has warned that the plan simply doesn't work in its current form. well, joining me now is former conservative mp and leader of the ukip party, neil hamilton. neil, thank you for joining us on the show. always a pleasure . here we are always a pleasure. here we are again. it's like brexit all over

again. it's like brexit all over again. groundhog day on rwanda. the right thing. it's too weak. the right thing. it's too weak. the left think it's too strong. never the twain shall meet. will this bill ever get through . this bill ever get through. >> oh well of course um, the right are absolutely correct. >> this bill simply can't work because sunak is apparently allergic to leaving the european convention on human rights and the un refugee convention and the un refugee convention and the amendments which are going to be put down to this bill, will not actually make it workable, because you can't by means of a bill in the house of commons, actually leave the echr or the un refugee convention. that's because they're treaties and the government has formally to denounce them as the technical terms, which they're technical term s, which they're not technical terms, which they're not going to do . not going to do. >> is a dead cat >> so this is a dead cat distraction . actually. distraction. actually. >> we know that the bill is not going there's going to work. there's less than 12 of hopeless 12 months of this hopeless government left. and sunak knows that this is a distraction from the real issue, which is uncontrolled mass immigration, legal immigration, as much as and even more so than illegal

immigration. and whilst we're talking about rwanda , we're not talking about rwanda, we're not talking about rwanda, we're not talking about rwanda, we're not talking about what really m atters. matters. >> you know 750,000 people added to our population last year through migration alone. and those are the ones we know about. and we know there are lots more that we don't know about. >> so, you know, i'm sadly, you know, this is yet another dead duck as well as a dead cat. >> bill. >> bill. >> and again , neil, with echoes >> and again, neil, with echoes of brecht , what do you think? of brecht, what do you think? any attempts to beef this up? will will surely fall down in the lords. and then the courts. well, of course, and of course , well, of course, and of course, one of the clauses in the bill gives migrants a right to seek an exception from the, uh the main purpose of the bill. >> so, of course, hundreds of thousands of people, uh , thousands of people, uh, potentially could take advantage of those. and we've got a court system which is completely clogged at the minute, like everything else in this country, the courts don't work as they should the whole public

should do. um, the whole public sector meltdown . sector seems to be in meltdown. um, so the system will just um, and so the system will just clog up and the sunak and his unlamented tory government will be long gone before any of these cases is actually heard . cases is actually heard. >> and, neil, we've seen hundreds of millions of pounds thrown at this scheme already. do you think we'll see a single flight leaving the uk for rwanda before a general election? well, ihope before a general election? well, i hope so. >> i think i'd like to put most of the house of commons on it, and then we might start to make some progress. yes >> yeah. well that, that is a novel solution. i think a lot of people would probably like that. they would like the idea of just putting all the politicians on a flight trying to let the flight and trying to let the sort grown if you like, sort of grown ups, if you like, run the country. is this sign ? run the country. is this a sign? >> um, start a petition . >> um, start a petition. >> um, start a petition. >> i'm sure people would like it. is this a sign , though, it. is this a sign, though, neil? back to brexit and briefly if we could of a of a party totally divided on immigration,

totally divided on immigration, totally divided on rwanda , just totally divided on rwanda, just like it was with brexit, and therefore we need to hard reset. we need a cruel reckoning at the general elections, try and get the party back to basics . the party back to basics. >> well, that probably 60 or 70 tory mps in parliament, the rest of them are just social democrats, and this is as a result of cameron, uh, wrecking the candidates election procedure . procedure. >> uh, in the tory party because he wanted more people like him who don't have any recognisable political views, but they just want to climb the greasy pole of politics and have the ministerial cars and hobnob with other like minded individuals to international panjandrums around the world, whilst actually betraying the interests of the british people. and just as cameron fought tooth and nail to avoid having a referendum until he was forced into having one and then fought as hard as he possibly could to win the referendum campaign . referendum campaign. >> uh, they are doing exactly the same on immigration, an they

never had the slightest intention of controlling migration . migration. >> boris johnson, after all, wanted when he was mayor of london, to have an amnesty for illegal immigrants. and he himself relaxed the qualifications for income and so on. if to get work visas in when he was prime minister and so that has led to the ballooning of the migration statistic that we've seen in the last couple of years . we've added 1.3 million years. we've added 1.3 million people to our population in two years. >> that's a city the size of birmingham, added to our population every two years. >> know, we've got to wise >> you know, we've got to wise up here. >> okay. superb. we're going to have to leave it there. um, neil hamilton, leader ukip hamilton, leader of the ukip party. fantastic. party. ukip, indeed. fantastic. thanks for joining party. ukip, indeed. fantastic. thanks forjoining on the thanks for joining us on the show. always pleasure. show. it's always a pleasure. now, often talked about now, we've often talked about the to take the police failing to take shoplifting seriously, but now the chain morrisons the supermarket chain morrisons is doing something about it themselves. it's this. it's themselves. and it's this. it's using robocop cameras in aisles to stop customers from stealing. well, i'm joined now by former maths detective peter bleksley ,

maths detective peter bleksley, who joins us on the show. maths detective peter bleksley, who joins us on the show . peter, who joins us on the show. peter, this is an astonishing story. it follows the course earlier this yeah follows the course earlier this year, the co—op group was saying that eight out of ten calls to the old for bill shoplifting aren't even answered. and now these whopping cameras these whopping great cameras have been put by the booze aisles to people in aisles to film people caught in the . is this a sign? the act. is this a sign? a symptom of the fact that shoplifting is now basically legal ? legal? >> yes. unfortunately we are in the midst of a shoplifter epidemic, and these cameras, which have previously been used overnight on building sites and such, like to stop people breaking in and taking valuable equipment used in the building of houses and factories . of houses and factories. >> they're now being deployed by morrisons in the booze aisle and quite frankly, i do not criticise them for that. >> although there is a lot more they themselves could be doing. >> i've got some concerns if these , uh, video cameras, these

these, uh, video cameras, these robots , cameras spot somebody robots, cameras spot somebody stealing something, it can let out a siren noise which goes up to 120db. >> cells now , i'd be concerned >> cells now, i'd be concerned for elderly people who were perhaps shopping might be holding a bottle of wine or whisky and looking at it. contemplate buying it. all of a sudden , a huge, great siren goes sudden, a huge, great siren goes off, deafening a bottle of alcohol gets dropped on the floor and broken our morrison's going to be any better off. >> yeah, i mean , certainly if >> yeah, i mean, certainly if 120db blew off in my logo . 120db blew off in my logo. peter, i probably fancy a stiff dnnk peter, i probably fancy a stiff drink after that. but joking aside, um, supermarkets increasing early, um, are having to take action themselves on they and it's this kind of downgrading of crime. what police will call low grade crime at peace. you know better than anybody these so—called low grade crimes really affect people's of life . people's quality of life. >> oh they do, and let's look at other crimes that the police have dismissively called low

level theft of a phone, theft of a bicycle , theft of a car, a bicycle, theft of a car, a house being burgled, some a shoplifter thing, of course, and somebody becoming a victim of fraud. >> and there are millions of those victims every year. >> the police have essentially turned their backs on victims of those types of crimes, and they've realised that they've become utterly irrelevant to millions of victims of crime and therefore they do not command therefore they do not command the respect of victims of crime , the respect of victims of crime, especially because they almost subcontract the investigation of those offences back out to the victims, which is deeply offensive. in other words , do offensive. in other words, do you know who did it? have you got cctv of any chance of forensics at your house? well, why don't you? the police turn up and find out. so the police respect has tanked. and of course, so has trust and confidence. which are the words the police keep using. there is a very kind of simplistic way in

which this epidemic of shoplifting could be tackled . shoplifting could be tackled. four kind of factors to it. number one, the retailer is train your security staff in restraint techniques and self defence. and if need be, give them cable ties or handcuffs. that's the first thing. and ditch any non—intervention policy . get them catching these policy. get them catching these people. get them detaining them. number two, the police could turn up. that would be really helpful , helpful turn up. that would be really helpful, helpful and arresting. i'm afraid i'm going to have to interject there. >> you're only halfway through your monologue , but we're simply your monologue, but we're simply run out of time. i've been martin daubney the break. martin daubney after the break. dewbs& co i'll see you tomorrow, three six. cheers three till six. cheers >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello again. it's aidan magee ivan here from the met office with the gb news forecast. it's

feeling cold out there today. there are some sunny skies around, otherwise a lot of around, but otherwise a lot of cloud covering the country, cloud is covering the country, especially across northern eastern parts. high pressure currently driving east to northeasterly winds in across the uk. feeling cold in that wind despite the sunshine in the south and a lot of cloud elsewhere , will bring some spots elsewhere, will bring some spots of rain and drizzle to wales, northern and eastern england , northern and eastern england, southern scotland that will tend to fade through the night. clear skies in south will lead to skies in the south will lead to a frost in many places, although there some patchy cloud there will be some patchy cloud cover one to cover developing minus one to minus two celsius in the south. a frost also likely for western scotland clear spells, but scotland under clear spells, but elsewhere got cloud. elsewhere we've got the cloud. it's going to be a frost free start to thursday. temperatures of 4 to 6 celsius across east wales into the midlands, eastern england, southern and eastern scotland . we've got less of a scotland. we've got less of a wind on thursday so perhaps not feeling quite as cold in the south. we've got a sunny start in the south, but increasing the cloud builds from the northeast, keeping the sunshine towards the

far southwest , increasing far southwest, increasing sunshine and sunshine across central and western scotland. otherwise a lot but fewer showers lot of cloud, but fewer showers around compared with today into friday. a frosty start for scotland and northern ireland. clear skies here, generally cloudy elsewhere and into the weekend. a big change in the weather comes along as arctic winds arrive with snow showers for scotland . for scotland. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsor of weather on .

is fantastic. it's a great move, but is it enough? and how has it actually been received? what else needs to happen? and also tonight a new poll is highlighting the uk's and i quote most soul destroying towns places that apparently are home to bland, boring , soul to bland, boring, soul destroying mediocrity with a gaping cultural void . blimey, is gaping cultural void. blimey, is your town on this list? we'll

take a