will be introduced within wales will be introduced within weeks. there'll also be an up front payment of £75,000 to compensate those who were jailed or bankrupted as a result of flawed computer software which wrongly showed money was missing , mr hollinrake says victims will get the justice they deserve . deserve. >> i intend to bring forward legislation as soon as we can to overturn the convictions of all those convicted in england or wales on the basis of post office evidence given during the honzon office evidence given during the horizon scandal . the government horizon scandal. the government will, in the coming days, consider whether to include the small number of cases that have already been considered by the appeal court and the convictions upheld . upheld. >> one of the victims of that scandal, vijay parekh, told gb news. earlier, more needs to be done. >> all the people who are involved in this get the same treatment . we have had all this , treatment. we have had all this, uh, convicted , uh, postmasters

uh, convicted, uh, postmasters and let them feel how we felt. we've done nothing and we've been imprisoned. they have done something. so they need to be imprisoned for the reason, what they've done . they've done. >> now, in other news, today , a >> now, in other news, today, a joint uk us military operation has fought off the biggest ever maritime attack on international shipping in the red sea . the shipping in the red sea. the defence secretary said today the royal navy's hms diamond destroyer successfully took out multiple attack drones deployed by houthi rebels attacking commercial shipping in support of hamas grant shapps described the attacks as completely unacceptable and warned there would be further consequences here at home. the pressure of returning to the office after working from home is proving a little too much for some, with around six working days lost last year per worker due to stress. a survey of 1000 people found that noise , distraction found that noise, distraction and worries about being on show

with the main causes of anxiety in the office. respondents also said their anxiety had become worse in recent months after the trend to work from home during the pandemic came to an end . the pandemic came to an end. that's the news on gb news across the uk on tv, in your car , on digital radio and on your smart speaker. this is britain's news channel . news channel. >> good evening. well, it was pretty obvious yesterday that the government was going to say something about this terrible scandal that affected 736 people and that at the moment, scandal that affected 736 people and that at the moment , to do it and that at the moment, to do it was, of course , prime minister's was, of course, prime minister's questions when the country was watching the media were watching. in fact, much of the world watched as pmqs and this is what our prime minister rishi sunak, had to say. >> today i can announce that we will introduce new primary legislation to make sure that those convicted as a result of the horizon scandal are swiftly

exonerated and compensated . we exonerated and compensated. we will also introduce a new up front payment of £75,000 for the vital glow group of postmasters. we will make sure that the truth comes to light. we right the wrongs of the past and the victims get the justice they deserve . deserve. >> well, joining me on all of this is gb news political edhon this is gb news political editor, chris hope, and the member of parliament for north west leicestershire, andrew bridgen. but before i get to them, i'm not surprised that sunak chose pmqs to make this statement. i have to say he could have done it with a bit more panache. he could have done it with a bit more certitude, and i'm not sure that short terme compensation of £75,000 pending, perhaps a very lengthy process, is frankly enough, and i say that because imagine you'd effectively been bankrupted by this 20 years ago, had to sell your house, been renting somewhere for the last 20 years to £75,000, cover even a fraction of your financial

shortfall? i don't think so. and by the time we go through this case by case, many of those who do deserve compensation will probably have died. so i don't think this is enough. probably have died. so i don't think this is enough . when you think this is enough. when you think this is enough. when you think that fujitsu have benefited by government contract . of £3.6 billion, why have they not been called in to number 10? why is the british government not said no more contracts for you guys unless you cough up some compensation . and again some compensation. and again it's sunak leadership style. it's a style of management, not one of firm leadership . that's one of firm leadership. that's my view. but you tell me , am my view. but you tell me, am i wrong? is it enough ? farage at wrong? is it enough? farage at gbnews.com chris hope . um, i gbnews.com chris hope. um, i have to say what was interesting, i thought, you know , and i made my comment about about rishi. what was interesting was here, we've got one of the biggest public scandals. we one of the most

angry moments. and we were talking about this earlier where ordinary folk against the establishment. well, i mean, i think for me it's got shades of brexit in the sense that you've got these multinationals , these got these multinationals, these garlanded people, cbs and the rest knights of the realm ignored being the little people stamping down on the little people, ignoring , frankly, local people, ignoring, frankly, local pillars of the community who are so who often they pay out weekly pensions to old people . pensions to old people. >> they sometimes might look after someone's direct debit card. so in case you lose it, you know, they are people with respect in the community. and that their word was that was their word was not enough. and the people who run this across all three this country across all three parties, lib dems , tories and parties, lib dems, tories and labour initially chose to believe, i think computers over people and the reckoning is started. >> it's very, very strong. and keir starmer today , not wanting keir starmer today, not wanting at pmqs to discuss the issue at all, moving on as rapidly as he

could to rwanda . and i can could to rwanda. and i can understand why he wants to expose divisions within the tory party. but but what was interesting was later on, backbench tory mp david jones made this comment, posed this question to now. the postal services minister, kevin hollinrake. >> could my honourable friend say if the convictions to be quashed under the process he has announced today, will include not only those where the prosecuting authority was the post office itself, but also those where the authority was the crown prosecution service. and in terms of the latter, will the ministry of justice be carrying out a review of the decision making process prior to the prior to the decision to prosecute? >> so, yes, is the answer, and it's only right that we look at what happened . and i say my what happened. and i say my right honourable friend, the lord, the lord chancellor, is looking at the whole issue of private prosecutions , for

private prosecutions, for example, and how those cases were put together and therefore how they were prosecuted . how they were prosecuted. >> so i've been pushing this since monday morning. um david jones looked to be quite near the mark there, didn't he? >> well, you heard there from kevin the postal kevin hollinrake, the postal affairs minister. the affairs minister. now, the important tonight, affairs minister. now, the important tonight , the important thing is tonight, the cps revealed that 11 cases cps has revealed that 11 cases involve horizon , were carried involve horizon, were carried out by the cps , so not the out by the cps, so not the prosecuting authority. wasn't the post office limited, but the cps . three of those cases were cps. three of those cases were on sir keir starmer's watch. now what kevin hollinrake is saying there to david jones, a senior lawyer , a solicitor, but also lawyer, a solicitor, but also someone who knows what i went to, how to ask a question in parliament. he was being very clear. we will look at the choices made, the decisions made and point all week on this and your point all week on this channel against some hostile attacks on twitter, i should say. and nigel farage is that if they find a smoking gun going back to the top of the cps when he was the dpp , it won't just be

he was the dpp, it won't just be ed davey on the hook for some of these choices made. it's keir starmer too. >> absolutely. talking of sir ed davey, he wasn't there. >> he wasn't there. >> he wasn't there. >> the leader of the liberal democrats who get up democrats who loves to get up and at pmqs, he wasn't. >> no, he's got his own commitments. he obviously got a complicated family issues with caring and the of it. so he caring and the rest of it. so he couldn't be. he couldn't be there. he will be there in the future. um, there was a change uk um petition put down to yesterday, more than 7000 people have signed it saying that he should give back his knighthood . should give back his knighthood. now his knighthood was given for his political service. of course he was post office minister from 2010 to 2012. he got it in 2015 on not for not just for the role on not for not just for the role on the post office, but i think i think it's a gathering. but steam behind this for a lot of these politicians is for all parties. i think party parties. i think the tory party equally has a question to answer. sit on it so answer. why sit on it for so long, nigel? and you're not the only blame. you're only one not to blame. you're not in government, are you? >> i'm very pleased.

>> once. no. i'm very pleased. government opposition, government and opposition, chris. brilliant. now one mp who's this ever since who's been on this ever since 2010 has very insistent 2010 and has been very insistent on this issue, andrew bridgen on this issue, is andrew bridgen , an independent member of parliament for north west leicestershire. andrew, you were on this almost as soon as you were elected, you? were elected, weren't you? >> a few weeks of >> i was within a few weeks of being elected. i was, um, at a surgery and two of my constituents came me with constituents came to see me with an story . mr and an unbelievable story. mr and mrs. rudkin, michael rudkin had been given the honour of representing all the subpostmasters in the uk . his subpostmasters in the uk. his wife had taken over running, maintaining the post office at ibstock , and he'd uncovered what ibstock, and he'd uncovered what fujitsu were doing with the accounts back in 2008, and he felt he'd been targeted deliberately with a loss immediately after his discovery and fortunately , susan, we and fortunately, susan, we managed to get her. she was one of the first nine to be cleared criminally. i think it was a december 2020, but they still haven't had all their compensation. and that's all these years. there's 75,000. you're absolutely right. it's a soft just to make it go away for

a bit until the election. >> andrew's passion this a bit until the election. >> beenkndrew's passion this a bit until the election. >> been very w's passion this a bit until the election. >> been very clearassion this a bit until the election. >> been very clear here. this a bit until the election. >> been very clear here. he this a bit until the election. >> been very clear here. he was has been very clear here. he was in the house of commons earlier. >> welcome . announcement >> welcome. the announcement that all convictions of subpostmasters based on the flawed horizon evidence will be overturned . but could i ask the overturned. but could i ask the minister why, when the material facts of these cases have not changed, many of them have been known for over a decade. why does he think it's taken the airing of a tv docudrama and the pubuc airing of a tv docudrama and the public outcry associated with it to force this government and indeed this whole house to do , indeed this whole house to do, belatedly, the right thing for innocent victims of a huge miscarriage of justice. what doesit miscarriage of justice. what does it say about our democracy and about our judicial system? and can you think of any other issues which perhaps could benefit from the same level of scrutiny by the media minister? >> well , i do scrutiny by the media minister? >> well, i do thank him for his work. >> he's been a constant campaign on behalf of his constituents , on behalf of his constituents, and he contributes to every debate seen in this

debate i've seen in this particular issue . um, must particular issue. um, i must say, i think he challenges a little bit unfair here. we have worked . he knows i've worked on worked. he knows i've worked on this as a backbencher as well, has been my number one priority as a minister the last 15 as a minister for the last 15 months. this is not something we've just picked up . we've just picked up. >> it was really interesting. andrew i wonder, does chris hope have a point? is this a bit like brexit? is this the massed ranks of the establishment with their cbes and the knighthoods against the little people? is that why they be treated with such contempt for so long? >> i think they've just seen as collateral damage to people's political careers. political and business careers. yes, i've got the yes, i think and i've got the greatest respect for minister hollinrake. i was hollinrake. but i mean, i was campaigning five years campaigning on this five years before an mp . before he was an mp. >> yeah. it's just you and kevin jones, it? labour jones, isn't it? the labour mp there of us originally. >> there were only two of us still the. he's now in the lords. >> yeah, yeah. arbuthnott did a lot but he's been in the lot but he's now been in the house commons. you're the house of commons. you're the last of that committee. last two of that committee. that first this. do you first looked into this. do you feel fight has been feel andrew, the fight has been

worth a lot worth it. now or is there a lot further go? further to go? >> it's a lot further to go. and this is the of the iceberg this is the tip of the iceberg and quite fujitsu and you're quite right. fujitsu have profited hugely from government outs. and government contract outs. and i will be raising in the house tomorrow concerns about another contract. they've got. good. >> the people whose >> now one of the people whose name cropped up this is name has cropped up this week is chris was the youngest chris head. he was the youngest postmaster kingdom postmaster in the united kingdom and kate osborne, his local mp , and kate osborne, his local mp, raised some points about him earlier this week. >> i want to thank the minister for this statement and for recognising the work that i and others have done to highlight this scandal over many years. of course, the recognition should go to the many subpostmasters , go to the many subpostmasters, including my constituent chris head, one of the 555, for their tireless campaign in um, and also to constituent chris head, who is a regular contributor to me on twitter about different things on this, which i read , things on this, which i read, uh, all the time . uh, all the time. >> so he gets his message across very effectively as well. >> chris head joins me down the line. submaster from newcastle affected by the horizon scandal being talked about in

parliament. this week. chris, do you feel we've made some real progress this week ? progress this week? >> um , well, i think today >> um, well, i think today obviously we've made progress on those convictions. of all the 900 people that obviously it's going to clear them and unlock the door compensation, but in the door to compensation, but in terms you were saying terms of what you were saying earlier £75,000, earlier about the £75,000, it seems be, it's a little bit seems to be, it's a little bit of a grey area because rishi sunak said it was an upfront payment when it as kevin hollinrake, minister, hollinrake, the minister, said, it's a take it or leave it offer for the people in the so for the people in the 555. so yes, well , as for the people in the 555. so yes, well, as as you say , that yes, well, as as you say, that needs clarity is it sunak, is it hollinrake ? hollinrake? >> who is right about that? but if it was a £75,000, take it or leave it offer. if that was the case, then a lot of people would finish up very badly out of pocket, wouldn't they? >> hugely . i mean, it's not >> hugely. i mean, it's not going to even come a fraction of what, what people have lost. like, you said earlier about people's homes, they lost their businesses. they've got their loss even loss of earnings, doesn't even cover the reputational damage.

the distress , anything like the distress, anything like that. it's not even close. so that. so it's not even close. so we do need to nail that down and find what, what the find out what's what, what the truth it. truth is behind it. >> very fair point. >> no, it's a very fair point. and chris, when you were going through ordeal, you through this ordeal, were you aware of just how many other people affected and or were people this affected and or were you told was it intimated to you that it was pretty much you and nobody else ? nobody else? >> yeah, that was it. i mean, you'd had i think by then in 2014, there was a maybe one other, a couple of other cases there, but because poster there, but because the poster was portrayed, the only was portrayed, you were the only one you, you believed in, one that you, you believed in, that maybe there was something wrong in that particular office, you it's, uh, when you know, so it's, uh, but when you know, so it's, uh, but when you realise obviously when there was the 555 came together and then we've won the court then since we've won the court cases in 2019 and you've actually found that posters have ran this historical shortfall scheme i think it's scheme and it's now i think it's now climbed 2800. don't now climbed to 2800. i don't think we'll ever know the true scale damage that's been scale of the damage that's been done, really. and how much damage would you say, chris, this done to your life ? well, this is done to your life? well, i mean, i took i started a work at the branch when i was 12

years old, uh, delivering newspapers, worked the newspapers, and i worked all the way until i bought it when way up until i bought it when i was then since was 18. and um, and then since i had the, i sold the business for a loss after being terminated in 2015. been a battle 2015. and it's been a battle ever since. here we are in 2024. and i still haven't been compensated for it. >> well, chris, all i can say is it's been a long, painful fight for . but actually, as has for you. but actually, as has been pointed out, both by chris andindeed been pointed out, both by chris and indeed you know, by our conservative member of parliament here as well, andrew, um, the tide's turning the pubuc um, the tide's turning the public are with you, and you are going to win whatever confusion may have come from today. chris head, gentlemen , thank you for head, gentlemen, thank you for joining me in a moment. we're going to be joined by conservative member of parliament who says the party may obliteration may be headed for obliteration unless it can get its rwanda policy . right. but are they policy. right. but are they still dancing around handbags when the real answer is just to leave the echr .

>> choose your listening to gb news radio . so what's the offer news radio. so what's the offer that was made today by the prime minister at pmqs? >> enough. i don't think it was. and i asked you to give me some of your thoughts. diane says, nigel, thank you for covering this . 75 k is absolutely not this. 75 k is absolutely not enough. it's disgusting, says diane. phil says . £75,000 diane. phil says. £75,000 compared to the millions paid to those responsible. peanuts and this is very much capturing the mood of what chris hope was saying. a moment ago. this is sort of almost this brexit feeling that there is this, this sort of class of people with their knighthood and their honours, their money, and the little people get ignored . and little people get ignored. and mel it's nowhere near mel says, no, it's nowhere near enough.the mel says, no, it's nowhere near enough. the companies enough. the tech companies should be sued for every penny. well, mel, i made the point that fujitsu have benefited by £3.6 billion from government contracts . why has rishi sunak contracts. why has rishi sunak not called them in to number 10

and demanded and said to them there'll be nothing more guys, nothing at all, unless you pay out some compensation as i understand it, that has not happened. now i'm joined by a member of parliament, danny kruger . he's member of parliament, danny kruger. he's a member of parliament, danny kruger . he's a conservative kruger. he's a conservative member from devizes and i think at the weekend he was speaking at the weekend he was speaking at a private function. but there's no such thing as private when you're elected as a member of parliament. danny. and you said that after 13 years of tory rule , at least i believe you rule, at least i believe you said this . we leave the country said this. we leave the country so sadder, less united and less conservative. and unless we do something, we face obliteration . something, we face obliteration. >> well, let me explain all that, nigel. it was the comments were made some months ago at party conference that what i thought was a gathering of friends, somebody , somebody friends, but somebody, somebody recorded it. it turns out not be the case. um but no, as you say, everything is public and that's fine. and what i actually said was if we don't change course, we face obliteration. and if we

lose the election year, we face obliteration. and if we lose thiszlection year, we face obliteration. and if we lose this year,)n year, we face obliteration. and if we lose this year, we year, we face obliteration. and if we lose this year, we willlear, we face obliteration. and if we lose this year, we will have now, this year, we will have left the country less divided and less conservative. and that's my great regret. and i think it's what the public feel over all those who voted for us in these in 2010, 2015, all these elections voted for conservatism. there are very conservatism. and there are very good so good reasons why it's been so difficult. acknowledge the difficult. let's acknowledge the state of the finances, the pubuc state of the finances, the public that public finances that we inherited, of problems inherited, all of the problems that happened over the last that have happened over the last 14 i still think we have 14 years. i still think we have the chance to demonstrate to the country that we are the party that they put into power, that we for their values and we stand for their values and their co—chair their interests. and i co—chair in group that we in parliament, a group that we call new call ourselves the new conservatives, were conservatives, because we were all elected since 2016, since that the that great moment when the pubuc that great moment when the public told the politicians they wanted country back wanted their country back and they the government they wanted the government to vote them, it vote to govern for them, it happened again in 2019 when i was elected. and great statement by of what they was elected. and great statement by their of what they was elected. and great statement by their politiciansthey was elected. and great statement by their politicians to y was elected. and great statement by their politicians to do, wanted their politicians to do, again, reasons we can again, for reasons that we can understand and explain, it's been deliver been really difficult to deliver for i still think we for them. but i still think we can it. what's going can do it. what's going on in parliament moment over parliament at the moment over migration is a really important example of that. we've got

example of that. but we've got to got to demonstrate to to we've got to demonstrate to the that we're their side. >> we can argue, look, we can argue deficits and argue about deficits and national debt, let's not do national debt, but let's not do that stick with one that now. let's stick with one very issue. is very important issue. there is little head that it little doubt in my head that it was getting back control of our borders . that was the key issue borders. that was the key issue in getting brexit the line. in getting brexit over the line. and you would agree and i'm sure you would agree with that. you probably saw that yourself out campaigning. with that. you probably saw that yourse what campaigning. with that. you probably saw that yourse what is|mpaigning. with that. you probably saw that yourse what is drivingiing. with that. you probably saw that yourse what is driving people to mean, what is driving people to distraction of the distraction is, of course, the cross—channel boats and indeed the legal levels of migration reaching levels. we couldn't have even dreamt of in tony blair's day. both party leaders have put great store by stopping the boats. really interesting that today sir keir starmer did not want to discuss the post office, just not wanted to talk about rwanda, rwanda, rwanda, because what i think he was doing well, partly deflecting away perhaps from his role as director of public prosecutions , director of public prosecutions, but to build the but looking to build the conservative splits in parliament. now, it just explain to our audience today. parliament. now, it just explain to our audience today . today to our audience today. today there have been a number of amendments . it's put down to the

amendments. it's put down to the rwanda legislation from your side of the argument, what is it you're trying to achieve with this legislation? so the first thing to is the bill is thing to say is the bill is a good one overall. >> does a set of really >> it does a set of really important things. we should have done before. they're done them before. they're disapplying human disapplying parts of the human rights you rights act explaining that you can't spurious human can't use lots of spurious human rights stop a removal, rights claims to stop a removal, but it doesn't go quite far enough. there's a small number of tweaks that we think the bill needs order ensure that it needs in order to ensure that it works, boats, works, to stop the boats, because way stop the because the only way to stop the boats to ensure that if you boats is to ensure that if you cross channel you cross the channel illegally, you are swiftly detained and removed, your removed, either back to your home to a safe third home country or to a safe third country like rwanda. what we're suggesting bill suggesting is that the bill needs in needs to be tightened in a couple key respects. further couple of key respects. further disapplications the disapplications of parts of the human we need to human rights act. and we need to signal clearly in law that signal very clearly in law that the european court of human rights has no jurisdiction to stop a policy passed by the british parliament, the prime minister has said that he believes which really believes that which is really welcome. see it in welcome. we want to see it in black in the law. black and white, in the law. >> this before. >> i've heard of this before. i've this before. this i've heard all this before. this is a replay arguments

is a replay of the arguments around our membership of the european conservative around our membership of the europinsisting conservative around our membership of the europinsisting , conservative around our membership of the europinsisting , as conservative around our membership of the europinsisting , as they 1servative around our membership of the europinsisting , as they were ative party insisting, as they were for years, we should stay part of the european union . and we of the european union. and we can this and we can do that, can do this and we can do that, and it won't be a problem. and time that time again, it proved that through european court of through the european court of justice it was problem. and through the european court of just going nas problem. and through the european court of just going ivas putyroblem. and through the european court of just going nasput this em. and through the european court of just going nasput this to . and through the european court of just going nasput this to youd through the european court of just going nasput this to you for i'm going to put this to you for a second. i understand your intentions don't want a intentions that you don't want a court strasbourg . some one court in strasbourg. some one individual at 10 pm. at night to overrule the decision of the british government. i get what you're trying to do. but isn't the truth of this that we've signed an international treaty? we're a law abiding country. we accept rules of clubs that accept the rules of clubs that we we leave them , and we join or we leave them, and that actually the echr has supremacy over british parliament acts that is a question for us whether we accept that or not. >> nigel, parliament is sovereign. nobody disputes that. it is up to us whether we accept the rulings of the european court and the problem is that for the last 20 years, since tony government, the tony blair's government, the consensus in whitehall has been we the we should accept what the european us. we

european court tells us. we don't need to do that. don't think we need to do that. by don't think we need to do that. by way, leave the echr by the way, i leave the echr tomorrow. think it served tomorrow. i think it served you would would leave would leave. i would leave personally, i think it's a great document, statement personally, i think it's a great do principles. statement personally, i think it's a great do principles. yeah statement personally, i think it's a great do principles. yeah it atement personally, i think it's a great do principles. yeah it doesn't: 75 principles. yeah it doesn't work now. not because there's anything with text, anything wrong with the text, but courts in but because the way courts in strasbourg and i'm afraid, say in uk , they apply those the in the uk, they apply those the convention in. so i would leave. but practice we don't have to but in practice we don't have to do that order to get this do that in order to get this policy to work. ensure policy to work. we can ensure that the, the flights take off to can the to rwanda. we can stop the boats. belief by boats. it is my belief by ensuring that this works ensuring that this bill works by disapplying rights ensuring that this bill works by disa|which1 rights ensuring that this bill works by disa|which brings rights ensuring that this bill works by disa|which brings the rights ensuring that this bill works by disa|which brings the echr1ts ensuring that this bill works by disa|which brings the echr into renee. >> it's not going to happen, mate. >> i appreciate your that. you would like to simpler. i know you'd like a simpler, bigger all before. haven't before. well, no, you haven't seen this before. seen this case before. >> i've seen. i've seen the arguments whose law was arguments over whose law was supreme before. here's the supreme before. and here's the problem. here's the. and i don't doubt sincerity this doubt you're sincerity on this for i believe you for one moment. i believe you when say what you say. when you say what you say. here's the problem. number one. do actually believe that do you actually believe that rishi sunak would go against a judgement of the ec? he has said so. 50. >> so. >> so this is what this is why

we need to put it into black and white, that that's what he will do. because in a sense, and you're nigel, you you're all, nigel, you understand this. there is an establishment at work in our country. government legal country. the government legal service, the whitehall machine, which gives enormously powerful. it has enormous power because of the advice that it gives to the to government. we to to the government. we need to specify every home specify explicitly to every home office every lawyer , office official, every lawyer, every court that that what parliament wishes is that people who are arrive here illegally shall be removed. and then there is opportunity ministers is no opportunity for ministers to believe the to overrule that. i believe the prime minister says that prime minister when he says that he overrule the european he would overrule the european court, very court, because he said so very clearly to ensure clearly, and we need to ensure not just he, but any subsequent leader that we need to govern for the long terme , we need to for the long terme, we need to future this bill. it future proof this bill. it should not be the case that a judge in strasbourg can overrule the british government that needs law. needs to be put into law. >> that's the treaty that we've signed is what signed up to, and that is what the says should the treaty says we should respect rights. respect human rights. >> we did that >> we can do that. we did that before. can do that now. before. we can do that now. >> what do think our judges >> what do you think our judges are well, if it's are going to do? well, if it's clear unambiguous in law,

clear and unambiguous in law, the have no option but to the judges have no option but to follow it. >> is the >> that is the glory of the parliamentary judges parliamentary supremacy. judges don't this don't make the law in this country shouldn't. and country or they shouldn't. and we that point. we need to reiterate that point. judges clearly. >> no, you're quite right, judges the law, but judges don't make the law, but they to international they can refer to international treaties them a higher order. >> well, that's why we need to specify in this case. and specify that in this case. and the question migration, the question of migration, they should not do so. >> and when will the boats stop? >> and when will the boats stop? >> if bill passes the >> well, if this bill passes the flights taking off in flights can start taking off in the spring. and if enough flights don't flights take off because i don't think, by the way, that just, you aeroplane load you know, one aeroplane load going will sufficient. going will be sufficient. we need to ensure that the likelihood cross the likelihood is if you cross the channel illegally, you're quickly . then if quickly off to rwanda. then if we enough flights taking we get enough flights taking off, and is why we need off, and which is why we need the bill, then the toughest possible bill, then i boats to stop i would expect the boats to stop pretty quickly as they did remember sharp they they remember they sharp they they dramatically there dramatically stopped when there was expectation among the was an expectation among the criminal that we criminal smuggling gangs that we were going to be able to swiftly remove people. the court stopped that boats have started that and the boats have started generally, they generally stop when wind blows and, you when the wind blows and, you know, can't really call know, we can't really call 30,000 people a great victory.

>> indeed . >> no, no, indeed. >> no, no, indeed. >> but there has been >> well, no, but there has been good give the good progress. so let's give the government for it. government the credit for it. >> you know, i'm going to give them credit. >> you know, i'm going to give the well, credit. >> you know, i'm going to give the well, givet. >> you know, i'm going to give the well, give them the credit >> well, give them the credit for reducing by for reducing the boats by a third. nothing. third. that's not nothing. that's important. that's that's important. but it's unless we it's not enough. and unless we completely on the completely deliver on the promise, we've to stop completely deliver on the prorboats.re've to stop completely deliver on the prorboats. well, to stop completely deliver on the prorboats. well, do to stop completely deliver on the prorboats. well, do know:op the boats. well, do you know what? good enough. what? it's not good enough. >> succeed, you may well >> if you succeed, you may well not face obliteration. well nigel, going to play a role >> you're going to play a role in that. >> need to be supporting >> you need to be supporting those conservatives who are standing for the proper standing up for the proper principles that principles and the values that the public not it's not the public want, not it's not splitting encouraging splitting our vote, encouraging and alternative and encouraging alternative candidates. you know, to bring labour candidates. you know, to bring labyou have no vote. you have no >> you have no vote. you have no divine as the divine right. as the conservative party agree with that no and that to anything. no and frankly, and i'm not going to get too political here, but frankly, there are millions of people there are people out there and there are people out there and there are people watching this now who feel very, very badly. >> i to you, >> and i want to thank you, nigel, speak. nigel, because i want to speak. the conservative should be the conservative party should be speaking people. it's speaking for those people. it's absolutely right. and the comments reporting comments that you're reporting that an that i made were an acknowledgement deeply acknowledgement of how deeply dismayed people feel dismayed so many people feel about the country dismayed so many people feel aborwhat's the country dismayed so many people feel aborwhat's happenede country dismayed so many people feel aborwhat's happened under:ry dismayed so many people feel aborwhat's happened under 14 and what's happened under 14 years of conservative

government. we have to acknowledge think can acknowledge that. i think we can make legitimate explanations of that, only once we've that, but only once we've acknowledged problem. acknowledged the problem. but the you are, i'm the problem that you are, i'm afraid, with your afraid, presenting with your colleagues reform at the next colleagues in reform at the next election you election is that you are presenting an alternative, conservative, small c conservative, small c conservative to a party to, conservative vote to a party to, to those voters. >> and i've heard this for 30 blimmin years. i know litvinenko don't vote. it's true. and if you hadn't voted ukip, we'd still be members of the european union. you lot would never have got independence got our independence back. it would happened. would never have happened. that has happened now. >> we've achieved that. well, has happened now. >> \.we've achieved that. well, has happened now. >> \.we've achievedthat. well, has happened now. >> \.we've achieved that well, has happened now. >> \.we've achieved that now. now we've achieved that now. now you're fighting you're now you're fighting on other now what we've other battles. now what we've got to do now, we've got to do is support that. >> we've got to get rid of conservative candidates. we've got given broken got you've given us broken britain. us alternatives. >> what are you going to give us? labour? >> no. complete reform of the whole system. the whole political system. the house lords been house of lords has been the greens, we have to greens, the pinks. we have to have election. well, greens, the pinks. we have to have of election. well, greens, the pinks. we have to have of greension. well, greens, the pinks. we have to have of greens are well, greens, the pinks. we have to have of greens are inall, greens, the pinks. we have to have of greens are in your most of the greens are in your party many of in your party or many of them in your cabinet. back another time. cabinet. come back another time. we'll that in we'll talk about that in a moment. to moment. i'm going to talk to a former paratrooper reservist

former idf paratrooper reservist who there on october the 7th who was there on october the 7th in israel. i'm going to talk to him about the war against hamas , him about the war against hamas, but i'm doing that in the light of what lord cameron had to say yesterday , when even natural yesterday, when even natural supporters israel supporters of israel are beginning get pretty beginning to get pretty squeamish about the death toll in gaza

gb news radio. >> well, the events of the 7th of october last year in israel were truly horrendous. and of course it has provoked a response from israel. one that is totally understand able in every regard. but what i've noficed every regard. but what i've noticed over the course of the last couple of months is even those people who are naturally very supportive of israel are beginning to get very nervous about where this war against hamas is going, and indeed, whether it's winnable . well, one whether it's winnable. well, one man who saw the events of the 7th of october and has been involved in the fighting over there, is shia, a former idf

paratroop reservist in southern israel . and thank you for israel. and thank you for joining me here on gb news. you saw a fair bit of what happened on the 7th of october. >> i did, yeah. >> i did, yeah. >> and then you were engaged . >> and then you were engaged. i'd relatively quickly , as i'd relatively quickly, as i understand it, in the battle against hamas. understand it, in the battle against hamas . and indeed, i against hamas. and indeed, i understand you were injured in that process when you first went into this . did you see it as a into this. did you see it as a battle of soldier against soldier? did you understand yourself how very difficult it was going to be for the civilian population in, in gaza ? population in, in gaza? >> i think at the beginning, no one really knew what it was going to be like at the beginning, it was a big chaos going on inside of israel. after having experienced the most

horrific day in jewish history since the holocaust. after seeing these atrocities, these raped women and beheaded and burned kids in the hundreds. um in the same day, in the most peaceful places in israel . when peaceful places in israel. when we went into it, we knew that we have one option in, and this opfion have one option in, and this option is to ensure the future of the jewish people in israel and the state of israel. and the only way to do it is to make sure this never happens again. and must forget that when and we must not forget that when we into gaza, it was after we went into gaza, it was after the leaders of hamas kept saying that october 7th was only the beginning . yes, it was the beginning. yes, it was just the first step. so no, i remembered my grandparents , who are my grandparents, who are holocaust survivors. i remember my father who fought in the yom kippur war , and it felt like kippur war, and it felt like this is our generation's fight. when ask about the civilian when you ask about the civilian population, i will tell you at the beginning that , you know, the beginning that, you know, for us, we are heartbroken for any uninvolved civilian that is being killed. but who do we get

the numbers from? from hamas ruled ministry of health. the same one that reported five minutes after the hospital bombing at the beginning of the war, that over 500 palestinians died in israel did it. and neither of these things were true. who is a civilian in gaza? most terrorists there are not counted as terrorists by this hamas ruled ministry of health. so we try to minimise that in a way that no other western military force has done in history . when we opened this history. when we opened this humanitarian corridor to help civilians move to safety and when we had to protect it from hamas to kill his own people for not having a human shield as they needed. when we share a map of the war with 2000 mini zones of the war with 2000 mini zones of gaza telling people where is safe and where isn't, we also tell it to the enemy, to the hamas terrorists. when we make tens of thousands of phone calls and when we throw hundreds of thousands of flyers before we bomb , we minimise civilian bomb, we minimise civilian casualties . so you bomb, we minimise civilian casualties. so you make bomb, we minimise civilian casualties . so you make the casualties. so you make the arguments , you make the

arguments, you make the argument. >> shahab very, very powerfully and with great emotion. and i fully understand that . but the fully understand that. but the international community seems to be losing patience. but i just wonder, how can you actually beat hamas? you can maybe neutralise them militarily, but can you beat hamas if it's actually an ideology ? actually an ideology? >> so that's a great question. i think physically we can beat hamas, but as you said , this hamas, but as you said, this ideology, it's bigger than israel and hamas , this radical israel and hamas, this radical jihadist ideology is everywhere right now. it's in europe . it's right now. it's in europe. it's in america. we hear it in different names. some people call it isis or hezbollah or al—qaeda or hamas. it's the same radical jihadist ideology that its goal is to destroy the western civilisation and build the great islamic state on top of it. they don't hide it. this is what they say. israel is just their first goal because we're their first goal because we're the closest ones. it's the easiest. if we had been in europe, trust me, there would be

a different country that would have attacked. but we are right there in the middle east, a small beacon of peace , small beacon of peace, surrounded by so many of these jihadists that their ideology is so much stronger . jihadists that their ideology is so much stronger. and jihadists that their ideology is so much stronger . and they're so much stronger. and they're just one organisation. so i believe we can defeat hamas. but this ideology is not just israel's fight. i think the western civilisation need to wake up. it's too late and come together. >> i think that's the point. sure. thank you . thank you for sure. thank you. thank you for coming on and sharing your experiences, your thoughts and your views . experiences, your thoughts and your views. thank experiences, your thoughts and your views . thank you, your views. thank you, i appreciate you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> now the what? the farage moment is quite extraordinary . a moment is quite extraordinary. a king's college counter—terror course for uk civil servants saw anna stanley , who at the time anna stanley, who at the time was working at the foreign office, attending an anna joins me down the line and anna, i've been reading the notes . it been reading the notes. it sounds like a sort of almost like an indoctrination course . like an indoctrination course. what on earth were they telling you ? you? >> well, firstly, thank you so much for having me. i'm also

speaking to you from israel. i mean, i think it's quite interesting that i'm coming off after your previous speaker because he's talking about what some on the news some people forget on the news to mention, which is that hamas is being ideologically motivated and unfortunately , that, uh, and unfortunately, that, uh, understanding of extremism and terrorism , i believe, is really terrorism, i believe, is really lacking in the uk. um, i terrorism, i believe, is really lacking in the uk . um, i think lacking in the uk. um, i think there are people , um, in the uk there are people, um, in the uk who are realising the importance of that. um, like the commissioner for countering extremism and william shawcross , extremism and william shawcross, who just wrote the review for prevent . um, but the course prevent. um, but the course i went on at king's college, um, really just didn't place ideology , um, at the heart of ideology, um, at the heart of many problems that we currently face. unfortunately no. >> and it's almost as if we have parts of the british establishment that find it difficult to condemn certain types of terrorism . um yeah, types of terrorism. um yeah, absolutely . absolutely. >> i think there's a real issue in the west in general, a real

lack of wanting to say there might be some, uh, cultures that might be some, uh, cultures that might be some, uh, cultures that might be morally superior to others . and that was something others. and that was something that was really lacking in the course. we were taught something about the adage that said, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, but unfortunately amounts to unfortunately that amounts to cultural apathy . um, from moral cultural apathy. um, from moral relativism . and we're living in relativism. and we're living in a time now where moral relativism is becoming dangerous , relativism is becoming dangerous i , relativism is becoming dangerous , i think. >> mm. no i listen, i worry about it enormously . and do you about it enormously. and do you sort of get the feeling, anna, from your time in the foreign office, that somehow all these departments don't really believe in our country anymore ? i in our country anymore? i definitely see, um, and i think that's one of the reasons they don't like to say our culture, western values , western belief western values, western belief systems might be better than other such ones. >> is definitely a resistance to that. >> is definitely a resistance to that . um, in >> is definitely a resistance to that. um, in the course that i was on, i said in the article that there was a real sense of irony to being with a load of civil servants who kind of hate

the concept the state, uh, in the concept of the state, uh, in the concept of the state, uh, in the sense that they're so resistant to, um, actually tackling problems of extremism. um, and that's something that, as you know, so well, um, the uk has really suffering from and yeah, i think it's, it's quite a scary place, to be honest . scary place, to be honest. >> anna stanley, thank you for your witness testimony . your witness testimony. depressing though it is now , the depressing though it is now, the government have responded to all of this by saying civil servants attend a variety of training courses in order to learn as is required by the civil service code and as the public rightly expects, all civil servants must act impartially. yes until it comes to brexit and things like that. um, quick thought on hs2. it's been a hobby horse of mine right from the very beginning . i right from the very beginning. i always thought this project would be an absolute fiasco and let's remember the initial projected cost of hs2 and this

was with the line going not just from london to birmingham , but from london to birmingham, but up to manchester and across to leeds was £37.5 billion. we're now told today that just the london birmingham stretch is going to cost over £66 billion. and i'll bet you folks , before and i'll bet you folks, before it's finished, it's 100 billion it's finished, it's100 billion or more just for that one little bit . is it any wonder there's bit. is it any wonder there's not a penny? and i mean not a penny of private sector money going into hs2? no, it's all your money now , in a moment i'm your money now, in a moment i'm going to tell you about the royal navy once again engaged in military action. barely any comment on this in the british press . and this happening at press. and this happening at a time when we can't recruit enough people to stay in the royal navy to keep all of our frigates afloat. and when some are saying we may not have the naval capability to enable the royal marines to do their job,

what the hell is going on and how are we going to try and fix it ? it? >> on patrick christys tonight, 9 to 11 with me, mark dolan . the 9 to 11 with me, mark dolan. the snp's stephen flynn says that subpostmasters never stood a chance against westminster. is he right? lee anderson joins me live in the studio. fresh from calling for sir ed davey to resign and after new claims prince andrew paid virginia giuffre $15,000 for sex, could these allegations destroy the british monarchy ? patrick british monarchy? patrick christys tonight with me, mark dolan 9 to 11 on gb news

>> we discussed this a couple of weeks ago. the fact that the royal navy had for the first time, actually had to stop

projectiles that were heading in its direction. well, it's happened again, this time an attempted multiple drone strike on a royal naval vessel, an and hms diamond was having none of it and used whatever means it had to blow these drones out of the sky. the drones weren't there just to take pictures. the drones would have been carrying explosives . of that, there is explosives. of that, there is very little doubt. and, you know, okay, this is the houthi rebels that are doing it. it's not state b state, which is perhaps why it's not on the front pages of our newspapers. and yet it feels pretty important to me, and i don't think we're i don't think we're talking enough . i'm talking about it enough. i'm joined by gater part owner joined by james gater part owner at project partners and at special project partners and at special project partners and a former special adviser to the royal navy's head of comms. and of course, yourself a former naval officer. it's a very long time ago your navy was engaged. >> well , that's not strictly >> well, that's not strictly true. royal navy last engaged in aerial target inbound to a ship in 1991, when hms gloucester were engaged. a i believe it was

a silkworm missile in the northern arabian gulf. but it is true that hms diamond latest last night taking part in the downing of 21 projectiles aimed at her and indeed the remainder of the us task group there in the red sea in action. yet again on our behalf. yeah yeah, but not much conversation about this. well, not as much conversation as really. there should be not not least because of the fact that right now , 24 of the fact that right now, 24 hours a day, we have men and women of the royal navy protecting our interests in the red sea , a choke point through red sea, a choke point through which 12% of the world's trade channels itself and you know, where the houthis are making a difference to the price that your viewers pay at the pump and for their goods . for their goods. >> yeah. no, no, it's very real, isn't it? if if, if, if oil and other cargoes are forced to go around the whole of africa, it's around the whole of africa, it's a 4500 mile dive version and james, all this happening, you know, naval resource being sent

to the red sea and quite rightly , in my view, to be there alongside our american allies and others . and yet back at and others. and yet back at home, we're hearing that royal naval vessels are having to be mothballed. there is a crisis of recruitment at at a level where we probably haven't seen since, since the days of the press gangs, but i'm not suggesting that for a moment we're even being told there might not be the naval military hardware to support amphibious landings by the royal marines. i mean, this whole situation is unthinkable. it does this take us back to the 1990s, when suddenly we ratings and officers were being made redundant ? and officers were being made redundant? is that where and officers were being made redundant ? is that where the redundant? is that where the problem with recruitment started? >> no. the royal navy has had issues with recruitment for a very long time. you wanted to talk about morale and obviously that's . a significant component that's. a significant component of the current circumstances. i'd venture to say that morale

in hms diamond right now, notwithstanding what she's up to, is at an all time high because this is what people joined up to do. i get that, but in the wider navy, morale is absolutely not in that situation . an and fundamental to this. let's start with the armed forces. uh continuous attitude survey, the latest , uh, survey, the latest, uh, iteration of which it makes for dire reading when it comes to pay ' dire reading when it comes to pay , for example. and now , uh, pay, for example. and now, uh, you know, on the, on the subject of pay, you know, it's oft quoted, but let's just think for a minute, right. those men and women driving hms diamond right now on our behalf, shooting down missiles with 30 minutes notice. they get paid a small group that drive the ship £47,000 a year. right. which might seem quite a lot to some of your viewers, but let's contrast that with with, for example, those in the operations room paid significantly . and let's significantly less. and let's think about some of the other people driving things on behalf

of the state, like tube drivers, or maybe the gentleman driving the express to edinburgh on 60,000 plus, we have got to a rather unusual place when it comes to public salaries and something needs to be done about that.in something needs to be done about that. in the first instance. but really that is not the half of it. the bigger problem really is recruitment , retention and the recruitment, retention and the status of personnel generation z versus the conditions of service that people are expected to follow in the service . follow in the service. >> are you saying gen z won't do it? >> no . it has become very , very >> no. it has become very, very popular from certain armchair admirals and maybe even some actual admirals to suggest that we should bring back national service at and implement things , service at and implement things, because that's how it was in my day. well, that really isn't how things are now . that's not what things are now. that's not what people will do. let's just think that the royal navy recruits

from the same pool of intelligent personnel that every other organisation does in this country and, and that means that the navy has to alter its offer to meet the needs of those personnel. >> and that's partly money. but it's not just money, is it? >> absolutely correct. which is why i moved on to this money is part of it. but really it's the offer. so in terms of shortfall, some is saying that some reporting is saying that royal navy recruitment is down 20% year on year. and it is true to say that voluntary outflow, which is the naval terms for people leaving. yeah um, is in excess of, of recruitment. but these things wax and wane. but as you mentioned earlier on, the very fact that we are laying up vessels and maybe even information being released in advance of it being formally announced, is the system , um, announced, is the system, um, creaking and saying that it's really reaching that inflection point. >> someone's got to get a grip, james gater someone's got to get a grip . jacob rees—mogg. quite

a grip. jacob rees—mogg. quite depressing. what james is saying, isn't it? i mean, yes , i saying, isn't it? i mean, yes, i mean service and here mean our senior service and here we are. we really need them in the red sea right now. um, you know, it used to be considered that conservative governments were the ones that were really pro forces is not really pro the forces is not really working now , is it? working right now, is it? >> well, i think we're more pro the labour, maybe, the forces than labour, maybe, but you're absolutely right. the royal navy has saved britain over centuries. it is a service of which we should be immeasurably proud. that piece of the 19th century was created by by the royal navy and it's doing its historic role of keeping the trade routes open. this is what allowed the british empire to take place, allowed the pax traditional role, isn't it? it's a very traditional role. yeah, it's really important and we need to be able to recruit and that we to recruit and ensure that we have an effective navy. >> absolutely . and also let's >> absolutely. and also let's not forget, folks, it was the royal navy, the west africa squadron that helped to drive out of slavery, out the curse of slavery, something we're going to return to in the next few days . something we're going to return to in the next few days. i'm done now. let's have a look

done for now. let's have a look at the weather. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boiler. as sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hi there , it's aidan mcgivern >> hi there, it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office . with here from the met office. with the gb news forecast clear skies in the south overnight . cold and in the south overnight. cold and frosty in places, but actually a lot of cloud is covering the uk and that cloud is being carried from the east and northeast by an area of high pressure sitting to the north. now the high pressure is generally keeping things settled at the moment, although seen some although we have seen some drizzly showers places where drizzly showers in places where the has been enough, the cloud has been low enough, especially eastern and especially for eastern and northeastern england . we keep northeastern england. we keep that going through the night. the ten it tends to become drier for many, however , and with for many, however, and with clear skies in the south as well as for western scotland, there will frost places. so will be a frost in places. so a chilly start to the day. frost free for the north sea coast. but here we've got that easterly or northeast wind so feeling

cold there'll be fewer showers across northern england, southern scotland, wales compared with wednesday, actually plenty of dry weather. best of any sunshine will be limited to the southwest of england, southwest wales and increasingly central and western scotland. otherwise, a lot of cloud building through the day and that cloud by friday morning is sitting across england and wales predominantly so frost free, but grey skies to begin things. some fog around as well. scotland and northern ireland. brighter skies but a chilly start with a widespread frost and then colder conditions arrive from the north on saturday and into sunday. colder f for frequent snow showers in the far north by by a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on .

gb news way. >> hello. good evening . it's me, >> hello. good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nafion jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation . tonight the government's nation. tonight the government's rwanda bill is in danger of being utterly ineffective if the government doesn't consider amending points to the bill. i'll be debating this shortly. as announced today in prime minister's questions, that the victims the office victims of the post office scandal to be compensated scandal are to be compensated with legislation . we finally with new legislation. we finally neanng with new legislation. we finally nearing justice for the hundreds of innocent victims and the scottish parents. beware that you could face time behind bars for not allowing your child to wear a tutu. the scottish government is reportedly worried that this could cause physical or psychological harm to children, and while over in south korea, history is being made with legislation to ban the centuries old dog meat industry closer to home, ah , iconic closer to home, ah, iconic bearskin hats worn by the king's guards. the next tradition to be abolished under animal activist attacks. state of the nation starts now