her cbe. the us and hand back her cbe. the us and the uk have launched strikes against houthi rebels in yemen as they continue attack as they continue to attack shipping in the red sea. and there's another row brewing on there's another row brewing on the benches with mps set to the tory benches with mps set to debate and vote on the amendments to the government's rwanda next week. we've rwanda bill next week. we've got a expert guests to a whole host of expert guests to talk us through all of it. i'll be joined by the defence minister, james cartlidge. what's government right to what's the government right to approve those on the approve those strikes on the houthi this week .7 and houthi rebels this week? and does military have does the uk military even have the capability to be a real player in the middle east anymore? the man hoping to be the uk's next health secretary wes streeting, me the wes streeting, joins me in the studio after revealed studio after labour revealed this that they want to this week that they want to bnng this week that they want to bring supervised tooth bring in supervised tooth brushing for primary aged children . i'll be asking brushing for primary aged children. i'll be asking him whether this is nanny state politics. i'll get the thoughts of the mayor of the west midlands, andy street, on the post office scandal after south africa brought genocide charges against israeli government against the israeli government at the international criminal court week , i'll be joined court this week, i'll be joined by israel's spokesman , alon by israel's spokesman, alon levi, and i'll be joined by

labour mp liam byrne . he labour mp liam byrne. he famously wrote that note there's no money left when he left government in 2010. does he regret it now? let's get straight into the newspapers now with nigel nelson , gb news senior political commentator. he's also the former political editor of the sunday people and the sunday mirror. good morning nigel. good morning you. let's talk about morning to you. let's talk about the red standoff then we've the red sea standoff then we've got sunday telegraph. lord got the sunday telegraph. lord cameron's written for the newspaper. we've sent an unambiguous message to the houthis. have to houthis. your attacks have to stop . he seems to be threatening stop. he seems to be threatening further action. >> nigel, i think it's explicit . >> nigel, i think it's explicit. he's saying that if they don't stop that , he certainly will. we stop that, he certainly will. we certainly will authorise further action. uh, president biden said the same thing. so really, the whole the ball is now in the houthis court. if whole the ball is now in the

houthis court . if they stop, houthis court. if they stop, then we stop . if they don't, then we stop. if they don't, then we stop. if they don't, then these attacks are going to carry on. >> but it is divisive, isn't it? we've seen a number of labour mps, including jeremy corbyn, of course , disagree with the taking course, disagree with the taking of military sunday of this military action. sunday telegraph , page five. telegraph, page five. pro—palestinian marches back houthi rebels now i find this quite unbelievable. got people over here living with the freedoms of the western world, living in london, enjoying life in a democracy, supporting houthi rebels. do these people understand who the houthis are? perhaps you can explain for us, nigel, whether these people are progressive , free thinkers, progressive, free thinkers, because i don't think they are . because i don't think they are. >> no, i don't think the sort of liberal democrats or anything like that. no. um, they they're there 20,000 strong shia there are 20,000 strong shia militia . um, that's the fighting militia. um, that's the fighting side of it. they seem to have quite a bit of support in yemen, but the kind of, um, ideology that they support is that sort of espoused by isis, by hamas. so they're not sort of very cuddly. however they're they're

not a proscribed terrorist organisation in this country. should they be? well, i mean, i would imagine that we'll be looking at that. um from now, in the future, but they're not at the future, but they're not at the moment. so of course, if the protesters are actually backing the they won't the houthis, they they won't face arrest in the same way they would have done if they'd backed hamas. >> how does keir starmer handle this one? asking you with your former sort of mirroring people hat because, he's hat on nigel, because, um, he's said in the past that he wouldn't support any military action without a parliamentary vote. obviously there wasn't one this week. uh, the speaker of the house of commons, lindsay hoyle, consult and he hoyle, was consult did and he did that he would happily did say that he would happily recall necessary . recall parliament if necessary. that happened. the that hasn't happened. the defence secretary, grant shapps, said it was ludicrous for the likes of corbyn and others to call for a parliamentary vote or discussion in advance of the attacks, of that attacks, because of course that would the that they would warn the houthis that they were coming where you think were coming. where do you think keir starmer in this keir starmer lies in this debate? how does he play to debate? how does he play it to keep both of the labour keep both sides of the labour party happy? >> well , um,

party happy? >> well, um, first, first of all, i think the houthis knew were coming because we kept saying didn't stop, saying so if they didn't stop, um, ships as far as um, attacking ships as far as the labour party is concerned and what starmer said is and what keir starmer said is he's happy for, um, he's perfectly happy for, um, going to war on the basis of the royal prerogative, which is which means that, um, part it doesn't have to be consulted about it. it the problem. i think and i think this is for the left is that, um, the convention about consulting parliaments all over the place . parliaments all over the place. so there was a vote in parliament for invading iraq in 2003. n0 parliament for invading iraq in 2003. no no vote for sending troops to helmand in 2006. vote on syria on bombing syria in in 2013, which the government lost and therefore didn't go ahead with it. and then we bombed syria in 2018 without a vote. so at the moment, syria in 2018 without a vote. so at the moment , the one thing i at the moment, the one thing i think they've got to do is actually work out what this convention should be. my own view is that there should be a

vote in parliament if there is likely to be a significant loss of british lives , sending four of british lives, sending four planes to bomb two targets probably doesn't qualify for that. >> yeah. oh, so i'll be asking james cartlidge, the defence minister, later on the show, whether we have got the military capabilities for this because there's also been concerns about there's also been concerns about the staffing of our frigates and support vessels in the red sea. let's move on to the next biggest story in the papers. it's running and running, biggest story in the papers. it's it, running and running, biggest story in the papers. it's it, nigel?ig and running, biggest story in the papers. it's it, nigel? we're running, biggest story in the papers. it's it, nigel? we're calling], isn't it, nigel? we're calling it a first class crisis. it's the office scandal . the the post office scandal. the express front page minister on jail post office bullies. this is coming from kevin hollinrake. there's also been a call from sir david davis that some of those implicated in the post office scandal should actually face criminal charges themselves . what do you think of that, nigel? >> well, i mean, this is the post office minister who's making that point. david davies sort of it out by saying sort of fleshes it out by saying what them with what you could charge them with is course of is perverting the course of justice, which which would look like to actually get them

like a way to actually get them into court . my own view like a way to actually get them into court. my own view is that i think we wait till the end of the public inquiry. it should report by the towards the end of this year . i report by the towards the end of this year. i think you need to see the evidence there. there's a bit of a knee jerk reaction going on. um, people are under absolutely furious now. they've realised the full scandal of the post office, but at the moment, not to actually go gung ho and try and take people's bonuses away and put them in jail or things like that . um, the answer things like that. um, the answer is, see what the public inquiry comes up with. prosecutions may well follow, although there are yet more revelations this morning. >> there's a story about having tony blair having signed off horizon, even though there were concerns about fujitsu and that it program actually worked, that it might have had bugs in the system, he signed it off. apparently suggesting that if he didn't, there would be problems with relations with japan. meanwhile, we also hear from the

times sunday the times, the sunday times, the front headline reads vinos front page headline reads vinos given cbe. despite horizon fears. so this is theresa may apparently waving through this honoun apparently waving through this honour, even though some said actually, is this the right thing to do? and we've got this scandal ongoing. well it was it was actually the honours committee at the time who waved it through. >> the e the ones who it through. >> face the ones who it through. >> face the the ones who it through. >> face the criticism. who it through. >> face the criticism. and who would face the criticism. and they were warned about it. there was somebody on the honours committee happy committee who was not happy about given in. about the honour being given in. there clean hands in there are no clean hands in this, as you say. you've mentioned tony he was mentioned tony blair. he was prime when the the prime minister when the this the honzon prime minister when the this the horizon introduced. horizon system was introduced. just knowing were just knowing that there were things with it that a lot things wrong with it that a lot of postmasters that stage of postmasters in at that stage back in 1999 saying, look, back in 1999 was saying, look, this is not working properly. um, so if you if you look all the way through, there are a number of ministers, prime ministers all who've had their hands on it . ministers all who've had their hands on it. uh, theresa may becomes the latest one. um, so i think it's very difficult to this goes back to what i was saying about let's not have a witch hunt. let's not scapegoat

too early till we actually know who who is responsible . who who is responsible. >> the other big story of this week is going to be rwanda. obviously, we've had this tragic news of four people having been killed trying to cross the channelin killed trying to cross the channel in the early hours of this morning, nigel, we've got a joint opinion piece written by danny kruger, john hayes and mark francois saying why the bill fails to give ministers the powers needed to stop the boats. on the other side of the argument, we've got the one nafion argument, we've got the one nation group saying that they won't vote it if won't continue to vote for it if it amended, if it is it is amended, if it is toughened up. so rishi sunak has got a headache his this got a headache on his hands this week, hasn't it? >> yeah. mean, that. it's >> oh yeah. i mean, that. it's an absolute nightmare. um i mean, all is 30 mps, mean, all it takes is 30 mps, uh, from 30 tory mps. mean, all it takes is 30 mps, uh, from 30 tory mps . and this uh, from 30 tory mps. and this bill will fall. now, um, we've got the collapse of three of the five families who are writing there are these mafia references. >> we asked mark francois this before christmas whether he was some kind of mafia don seemed to be enjoying that label. >> he seems to be enjoying the whole when him

whole thing. when you see him walking the house of walking around the house of commons moment, um, what commons at the moment, um, what what they're the bill what they're saying is the bill needs tightened needs to be tightened up. they're these rule they're saying that these rule 39 pyjama injunctions that stop the flights at the last minute , the flights at the last minute, that, um, that needs to be dealt with. i mean, rishi sunak says he would ignore one of those. they want something a bit harder than that . also, they want to than that. also, they want to try and stop individual appeals. now, all of this, then we nudge closer and closer to breaking international law. the one nafion international law. the one nation group, which is a much bigger group, more than 100 mps in the tory party are saying, no, no, we don't want that. this bill goes as far as it can possibly go , so we'll vote for possibly go, so we'll vote for it, provided it's not not amended. um my guess is next week that the tories will think, hmm, do we really want to bring down our government at the moment? because a vote of no confidence would certainly follow if the bill disappeared and probably the bill will go through as stands. >> i mean, it's difficult for

some tories who might be facing electoral wipe—out . there's been electoral wipe—out. there's been some polling and conducted over the weekend which says that 9 in 10 constituents are concerned about immigration, not just illegal but also legal. uh, the headune illegal but also legal. uh, the headline in the mail is quite stark rishi rwanda plan will be pred stark rishi rwanda plan will be ripped to pieces. um interestingly, glenn owen of the mail on sunday, he went out to ukraine with rishi sunak over the weekend, and he got an interview with the prime minister. and the prime minister is basically saying, no, the bill does what it does say it does what it says on the tin. it's going be it's it's going to be okay. it's going to stop these legal challenges. you believe him, nigel? >> well, we'll have to. we'll have see. >> well, we'll have to. we'll have see i >> well, we'll have to. we'll have see. i mean, personally, have to see. i mean, personally, i think rwanda a complete i think rwanda is a complete gimmick certainly should gimmick and certainly should neven gimmick and certainly should never, have been never, never have been introduced first place. never, never have been intrbut:ed first place. never, never have been intrbut itj first place. never, never have been intrbut it should first place. never, never have been intrbut it should firsaslace. >> but it should act as a deterrent, not least with news of these four deaths in the channel. i don't think channel. well, i don't think that's the point. >> no evidence at all. >> there is no evidence at all. it act as a deterrent. i it will act as a deterrent. i mean, the senior official the mean, the senior official at the home office wouldn't even sign it value for money it off as value for money

because there evidence because there was no evidence that would have a deterrent that it would have a deterrent value. we've come much. value. but we've come much. we've come further than that. i mean, the issue now is whether or not, as constructed by rishi sunak, this bill gets through . sunak, this bill gets through. >> think we're going to >> i think we're going to witness of suella witness a resurgence of suella braverman jenrick in braverman and robert jenrick in the week. so we'll stay tuned to hear them this coming hear lots of them this coming week. >> i would imagine so. >> i would imagine so. >> just finally have >> and let's just finally have a look at some of the royal revelations that are in mail revelations that are in the mail on sunday. robert hardman, on sunday. so robert hardman, who, coming who, funnily enough is coming on my next to discuss my show next week to discuss this and it's a great book. this book and it's a great book. i sometimes we have royal i mean, sometimes we have royal books that come with books that don't come up with much. a cut job. we've much. they're a cut job. we've heard all before. what robert heard it all before. what robert hardman pieced together hardman done is pieced together the final days of the the final days and hours of the queen's life, he speaks to queen's life, and he speaks to the that was discussed the fact that it was discussed at point. of at one point. the idea of perhaps prince perhaps appointing prince charles, was then known as charles, as he was then known as a prince regent should the queen's health become so, failing wasn't able failing that she wasn't able to reign. presumably, a reign. this presumably, is a reflection, the fact reflection, nigel, of the fact that queen, the late queen, that the queen, the late queen, would abdicated, would never have abdicated, abdicate her abdicate was a dirty word in her vocabulary following vocabulary. following the behaviour edward the eighth,

behaviour of edward the eighth, who i think she blamed for her own father, george vi. premature death. but it's an death. but it's quite an interesting isn't interesting insight that, isn't it? it is. >> it would have been the first time that that we'd regent time that that we'd had a regent since george the since 1820, when george the third. the modern terms third. i think the modern terms would mental issue , would be had some mental issue, some mental issues. would be had some mental issue, some mental issues . and his son some mental issues. and his son took over as regent . and by the took over as regent. and by the sound of robert harman's book, um, that prince charles at the time was not terribly keen on, on on the role he wanted to see the queen go all the way through. >> indeed. so i'll be looking forward to speaking to robert hardman next week, and i very much enjoyed you much enjoyed speaking to you this thank you this morning, nigel, thank you very thank you. well, very much. thank you. well, don't anywhere because we're don't go anywhere because we're going by defence going to be joined by defence minister cartlidge after going to be joined by defence miniweather cartlidge after going to be joined by defence miniweather bulletin,ige after this weather bulletin, a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hello there. i'm jonathan vautrey who of your gb news weather forecast provided by the met office? it is going to be quite a blustery, windy day for

the vast majority of us. some very tightly spaced isobars across the providing across much of the uk providing gale strength winds places gale strength winds in places that going to be that it's also going to be a very wet day for western areas of with trailing of scotland with this trailing weather has weather system that has essentially across this essentially stalled across this region and will provide heavy and the and persistent rainfall to the highlands, , argyll highlands, isle of skye, argyll and take care and amber and bute. do take care and amber weather warning is in force. significant disruption is possible from flooding and even landslides elsewhere. it be landslides elsewhere. it will be a day. the cloud wants a drier day. the cloud wants to break way into the break its way up into the afternoon, the afternoon, particularly the north—east ground, so north—east of higher ground, so the best of sunny breaks through central england. central eastern england. parts of as well, of northeast scotland as well, where temperatures of northeast scotland as well, where to temperatures of northeast scotland as well, where to of amperatures of northeast scotland as well, where to of 13 c. ratures of northeast scotland as well, where to of 13 c. the'es of northeast scotland as well, where to of 13 c. the rain climb to highs of 13 c. the rain will eventually ease its way off for western scotland as we head into the overnight period, but it's its way it's going to push its way southwards a result, southwards as a result, spreading northern spreading across northern ireland, into ireland, northwest england into the of wales, as well the far north of wales, as well far southeast, holding on to a dner far southeast, holding on to a drier still a mild one drier night. still a mild one here. degrees here. lows of nine degrees celsius, some drier and celsius, but some drier and clearer spells pushing way clearer spells pushing their way into northwest scotland. as we start monday. generally a start off monday. so generally a better day here. elsewhere, though, to be though, monday looks to be rather drab, dreary and damp,

with outbreaks rain and with outbreaks of rain and drizzle quite murky in places. hill fog across the pennines , hill fog across the pennines, the cheviots still blustery across areas of england and wales , but the winds easing out wales, but the winds easing out for northern ireland. central areas of scotland . further rain areas of scotland. further rain is on the cards as we head towards tuesday and wednesday as well, so keep up to date with the forecast by looks like things are heating up boxt boiler hours. >> sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. lovely to have your company this morning. nigel nelson's remaining with me while we for james cartlidge, the we wait for james cartlidge, the defence be ready. defence minister, to be ready. um they're in a difficult situation, aren't they, at the ministry defence because ministry of defence because the criticism of all criticism from labour of all people is that we are under defended. i mean, i do find this positioning quite intriguing from shadow defence secretary john said , um, john healey. he said, um, because britain's aircraft carriers are not ready to be sent to the red sea because of a recruitment crisis effectively

engulfing all the armed forces, but particularly the royal navy. john healey has said that the conservative government has hollowed out the armed forces . hollowed out the armed forces. quotes. our navy support ships are spending less time at sea and ministers have failed to get to grips with the growing recruitment crisis. obviously i'm going this to the i'm going to put this to the minister, but what's your reaction that? the reaction to that? because the labour party aren't historically associate with putting more money defences , are they? >> well, this is a different labour party the one. is it labour party from the one. is it nigel? the one we've had before? >> to jeremy corbyn >> according to jeremy corbyn and supporting the and those supporting the hutu rebels ? rebels? >> w— >> certainly not according to jeremy i think it jeremy corbyn. but i think it would according keir would be, according to keir starmer. and so there a starmer. and so there is a commitment maintain our 2.5% commitment to maintain our 2.5% contribution to the, to defence. um, i think labour would actually do that, but absolutely right that we, that we haven't got enough sailors. the recruitment crisis is quite serious . when these actions serious. when these actions happen , we have to go on the happen, we have to go on the coattails of the american uns. and you look at the that and if you look at the that first strike, the americans hit

a total of 60 targets. we hit two and only sent sent four planes. that's probably about what we can manage. so um, but isn't that quite embarrassing ? isn't that quite embarrassing? uh, well, i mean, i think we're giving the moral support. bear in mind, we were the only other country that actually went into action with the americans. so we've got the french and the germans and the italians sort of sitting on the fence on this bit. yeah. i mean, they're supporting basically they're supporting basically they're supporting it, but they're not actually sending any hardware into the region to go and do something. what i think, in fairness, that we actually did something, we sent our, um, uh, the air force into combat, but we were supporting the americans , all part of the special relationship that we talk about rather more than america does. um, but when the americans go to war, we are there. and i think that shows that we remain their strongest ally. >> how worried are you, nigel, about sort of retaliatory attacks from, um. well, iran

and, um, from others who have not got our best interest to heart. um, i think people watching and listening to this program will be worried about the threat of terrorism resurging on the streets of london and elsewhere. >> yeah, i mean that obviously there is a greater risk from this. um, my own view is iran doesn't want to get involved if they possibly can, they'll use their proxies . uh, the houthis, their proxies. uh, the houthis, hezbollah , hamas to do do their hezbollah, hamas to do do their dirty work for them. so i don't think iran wants to see the war spread knowing that if it did, the americans would hit would hit them in the same way that they hit iraq. but of course, there's always a danger. we know that the opposition tv channel, iran international, had to leave london because the police here couldn't guarantee the safety of journalists on the basis that, um, iran and revolutionary guard were after them . so, yes, there were after them. so, yes, there is a danger , i think, that one is a danger, i think, that one shouldn't overplay it . um, it is shouldn't overplay it. um, it is a small danger at the moment.

but again, as we know from all wars , they can escalate. wars, they can escalate. >> and there's an irony here, isn't there? because we've in this period iran where the this period in iran where the resistance movement is actually gaining some momentum, we've seen particularly going seen women particularly going and challenging the ayatollah, challenging the system that's beenin challenging the system that's been in place there that sees young women whipped or even killed for removing hijab . so on killed for removing hijab. so on one hand, in iran , we've got a one hand, in iran, we've got a different set of circumstances where the people are really trying to rise up against what they see as a sort of return to a degree of medievalism. yet at the same time, on the streets of london and elsewhere, we're seeing people support fighting houthi rebels who are propped up by this more . medieval and by this more. medieval and barbaric regime. it doesn't make any sense, nigel. well i would tend to agree with you. >> i wouldn't be be out there protesting for, uh, for the houthis or for iran. iran remains a dangerous country. it wants to see the end of israel just as the houthis do. um so no, they're not they're not

people you'd really want to support it. but at the moment, let's keep our fingers crossed that iran just stays out of it. um as a state actor , even if um as a state actor, even if they support hezbollah , the they support hezbollah, the hamas and the houthis, what do you make of the politics of lord cameron being front and centre, seemingly of these strikes? >> and he's the one who's writing the op ed for the sunday telegraph this morning. we've not heard much from grant shapps this was always going to be the dangen this was always going to be the danger. wasn't it, of bringing in prime into in a former prime minister into cabinet, threatening to cabinet, not only threatening to overshadow some overshadow rishi sunak on some of also the of these issues, but also the defence secretary? >> yeah, i mean, i rather like the way he introduces his op ed today in the telegraph, where he says he didn't think he'd says that he didn't think he'd be watching another prime minister sending our forces into action. >> thank you much for that, >> thank you very much for that, nigel. james cartlidge, nigel. now, james cartlidge, i believe , is with us now is the believe, is with us now is the minister state defence minister of state for defence procurement. mp procurement. he's also the mp for suffolk. mr cartlidge, for south suffolk. mr cartlidge, hopefully can hear me now . hopefully you can hear me now. um, this question to um, i had put this question to my guest, nigel nelson earlier. we've john healey, your

we've had john healey, your labour counterpart. speak, labour counterpart. so to speak, uh, talking about the fact that our forces been our armed forces have been hollowed out, fact that we hollowed out, the fact that we can't deploy hms queen elizabeth to the red sea does suggest that our defences are woefully underfunded and under—resourced. we're not in a great position, are we, to be involving ourselves in these affairs in the middle east? >> well, thanks for camilla. it's a pleasure to be on your programme and just to be absolutely clear, there is no truth whatsoever in the suggestion we cannot deploy suggestion that we cannot deploy the pleased the carrier. i'm pleased to confirm that both our carriers are in portsmouth. they are at readiness and they are available to be deployed if needed. if the operational decision is that thatis operational decision is that that is the appropriate response . um, just just to highlight because i appreciate there has been some coverage at this point. um, uh, queen elizabeth, one of the carriers returned only eight weeks ago from a 13,000 nautical mile mission to the north sea and the baltic sea . um, so, uh, it's not true that we couldn't deploy them. i think

what it is focussed on is the fact that one of the support ships is about to go into an upgrade. that's very common. it's in liverpool. maintenance of the ship. and but we have other ships available. other support ships available. >> do you envisage >> okay. um, do you envisage that there will be more strikes that there will be more strikes that there will be more strikes that the uk will support in the near future ? near future? >> um, i think the key, the key point is this, um, the we have to get the correct characterisation of the military effort undertaken so far, which was a very specific targeted strike, proportionate, justified under international law. of course, we don't rule out further action if it was justified and what is going to be the impact on the british people? >> i speak of course, in terms of prices going up. we know how strategic and import that shipping lane is to the western world. 12% of global trade passes through that area. inevitably are we going to be seeing prices go up again? is this going to hamper rishi sunak's target for keeping inflation down? what's the impact and what the government are going to do to help people

in the uk? well it's a very good question. >> as you know, we've made huge progress on the plan to cut inflation. we halved it by the end of the year. as the prime minister promised. so obviously we see that being we don't want to see that being reversed. that's it's so reversed. that's why it's so important that we've undertaken the we the military action that we have. were attacking have. the houthis were attacking international shipping from many countries . they've doing so countries. they've been doing so since november, wholly unjustified , indiscriminate unjustified, indiscriminate attacks lives at risk attacks which put lives at risk for, let alone the economic consequences. and, of course, ultimately they attacked a british naval vessel, hms diamond, which . put us in diamond, which. put us in a position where the prime minister concluded concluded that he had no choice but to act in the manner that he did. >> were you disappointed that our european partners, france, germany and italy didn't join this meant to be this action? they're meant to be in coalition with us, but they've sat their hands, they've sat on their hands, haven't ? haven't they? >> think that those countries >> i think that those countries have of the have issued condemnation of the attacks on shipping in the red sea, and of course, many countries ships were affected, but we had support from bahrain ,

but we had support from bahrain, from canada, australia, the netherlands and germany. and i think that there is a wide consensus that we cannot allow this to go on. and but of course, it was a british naval ship that was attacked as american vessels were. and so we as partners decided under self—defence, which is a right under the un charter, article 51, that we therefore it was necessary to take these these strikes . they were very strikes. they were very proportionate, targeted and act of self—defence. um and now the key is we continue to patrol in the red sea under operation prosperity. guardian and very much keeping a watching eye with our allies what happens next. our allies on what happens next. >> um, let's just return to domestic matters, mr cartlidge, you probably seen the you probably have seen the headunes you probably have seen the headlines morning talking headlines this morning talking about rishi sunak's rwanda bill threatened torn to pieces threatened to be torn to pieces by mps . you've got some on one by mps. you've got some on one side of your party, the likes of mark francois , um, and danny mark francois, um, and danny kruger and others threatening that they will not vote for this bill unless it is strengthened, unless key amendments are added to it, and then you've got the

one nation group saying that they won't vote for it if it is amended. so the prime minister is stuck between and a is stuck between a rock and a hard meanwhile, robert hard place. meanwhile, robert jenrick braverman, jenrick and suella braverman, who in the who were involved in the drafting of the legislation, say it isn't enough. not it isn't strong enough. it's not going the boats, so it's going to stop the boats, so it's a disaster, isn't it? well of course, it's a hugely important issue made enormous issue where we've made enormous progress . progress. >> you know, small boat >> as you know, small boat crossings down third last year crossings down a third last year when many european countries, when in many european countries, um, seen sort of asylum um, you've seen sort of asylum numbers surging . i think um, you've seen sort of asylum numbers surging. i think in europe, 80% increase. s um, the point is, before second reading, which was before christmas, we heard this sort of talk about, um, the situation in parliament and of course it passed very comfortably. that's not to say we won't be engaging as a government with backbenchers from, you know, with a wide range of views. i think that's absolutely right. but the key message is this this is a very robust piece of legislation. it will enable us to create a deterrent so that we actually get people on the planes to rwanda . we think that will send

rwanda. we think that will send a very strong message, because we've seen only today the terrible, of terrible, tragic consequences of this horrific trade in human beings . and it's why we have to beings. and it's why we have to get this legislation through and why i'm bound to say where we have a clear to deal with have a clear plan to deal with small our opponents have small boats. our opponents have no plan take us back no plan and would take us back to square one have opposed to square one and have opposed all measures. so yes, it's all these measures. so yes, it's going busy week in parliament. >> it will be a busy week in parliament. james cartlidge, thank very much indeed for thank you very much indeed for joining this morning. joining us this morning. well, lots today's lots more to come on today's show. labour's wes streeting will be me in just will be with me in just a minute. don't go anywhere. i'll be very .

soon >>i soon >> i think the most exciting bit for me is talking to people. people who i think are ignored, often by the major news channels. >> we're going to give news they want to hear. there's a voice there that needs to be heard. i think there's a chance here for a diversity opinion to be a diversity of opinion to be expressed, you don't find expressed, which you don't find elsewhere. it's really exciting. we don't back. we don't hold back. >> free say how >> we're free to say how decisions that are taken here affect all around the affect us all around the country. >> only on gb news, the people's channel >> only on gb news, the people's channel, britain's news channel . channel, britain's news channel. >> welcome back. so much more to come in the next hour i'll be interviewing the mayor of the west midlands, andy street. shadow health secretary wes

streeting, an israeli government spokesperson, ellen levy. all that after the news with aaron armstrong . armstrong. >> hi there it is 10:00. i'm aaron armstrong in the gb newsroom. at least four migrants have died trying to cross the engush have died trying to cross the english channel overnight. a small boat carrying dozens of people got into difficulties just off a french beach north of the port of boulogne. a huge rescue effort took place with french maritime vessels, a helicopter and emergency services combing the beach area at wimereux . a further two at wimereux. a further two migrant boats arrived safely in uk waters early this morning . at uk waters early this morning. at least 100 people have been taken to dover. the foreign secretary has warned. the houthis of further strikes in yemen if attacks in the red sea continue. lord cameron says the uk has sent an unambiguous message but will continue to back words with action. writing in the telegraph

, he says disruption in the red sea threatens vital supply chains, which could force up pnces chains, which could force up prices in britain. president joe biden has issued a similar warning to iran, which backs the militant group . thousands of militant group. thousands of people are gathering in central london for a rally which will mark the 100 day anniversary since the october 7th attack on israel. the cross party supports is also expected to attend the eventin is also expected to attend the event in central london, and a show of solidarity over 100 hostages are still being held by the terrorist group hamas . it's the terrorist group hamas. it's after thousands of pro—palestinian protesters took to major cities yesterday calling for a permanent ceasefire in gaza. the hamas run health ministry says almost 24,000 palestinians have been killed by israel in gaza , now killed by israel in gaza, now a record 420,000 patients had to wait more than 12 hours in a&e last year. the latest nhs england figures show. 1 in 15 patients faced so—called trolley waits, which have been linked to

excess deaths and increased harm to patients. they also reflect a 20% increase on 2022. the lib dem leader, sir ed davey, is accusing the prime minister of driving the health service into the ground . it's likely to snow the ground. it's likely to snow in parts of scotland today with freezing temperatures expected further south this week. a yellow weather warning for snow andiceisin yellow weather warning for snow and ice is in place until tomorrow, covering areas including the highlands, the orkney and shetland islands, as well . between 5 and 10cm of snow well. between 5 and 10cm of snow is expected in parts of scotland, scotland , therefore scotland, scotland, therefore causing disruption on the roads and railways. the cold snap, expected to affect the south of the country later in the week . the country later in the week. this is gb news. we're live across the uk on tv, on digital radio and on your smart speaker. two now it's back to . camilla two now it's back to. camilla >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. still lots more to come on. just a minute. i'm going to be joined by the mayor

of the west midlands, andy street. streeting shadow street. wes streeting shadow health going be health secretary is going to be joining too, and i'm going to joining me too, and i'm going to be to alon levy, the be speaking to alon levy, the israel spokesman, and israel government spokesman, and liam mp and liam byrne, the labour mp and chair the business select chair of the business select committee, be committee, is going to be joining to discuss his new joining me to discuss his new book. first of let's book. but first of all, let's speak to andy street, now conservative of west conservative mayor of the west midlands, former boss of john lewis. lovely lewis. of course. andy, lovely to see you this morning. thank you much joining me. you very much for joining me. can we get started on the post office you got office because you have got a unique perspective on this, having the head of major having been the head of a major company the same time a company and at the same time a politician now and obviously mayor west midlands, now you mayor of west midlands, now you got a cbe. i remember some time ago for your service to business and other matters. some people are looking at paula vennells and she's given the cbe , cbe and she's given the cbe, cbe back and they're saying to themselves, should ceos actually get cbes already very well rewarded. obviously there's been a scandal in her case. um, do you think that she was rewarded effectively for failure? and is it right at all that people who

are very well remunerated should get these honours in the first place? so good morning camilla. >> be here. it's a lot >> lovely to be here. it's a lot in that question. but you're right, it's interesting to view the office scandal through the post office scandal through the post office scandal through the lens of led john the lens of having led john lewis ten years. lewis for ten years. and yes, i think you understand in that think you do understand in that ceo role, the whole point about trust. and there's clearly been an breach trust an incredible breach of trust here. people must be held to here. and people must be held to account for that. but to come to the cbe question and the honours system, my personal view is that honours incredibly good for honours are incredibly good for people who do normal jobs and then do something extraordinary for society and actually get rewarded. i was with a chap who runs a series of community centres in birmingham just this week, and he just been to westminster to windsor to get his award, and felt so made his award, and he felt so made up. so let's not trash the system overall. but to your point about people doing their well—paid senior job and just well—paid seniorjob and just doing their job, i well—paid seniorjob and just doing theirjob, i don't well—paid seniorjob and just doing their job, i don't believe doing theirjob, i don't believe that they should equally be rewarded for that because frankly, they're remunerated for

it appropriately. so that's the difference, i think. >> did you feel that you got your honour for doing more than just job? just your job? >> i well, it was very clear because i actually chaired the local partnership for local enterprise partnership for birmingham solihull and birmingham and solihull and in the was the citation, that's what was called actually, it wasn't called out actually, it wasn't just for doing journalist job. >> in contrast, vennells was >> so in contrast, vennells was given this award for services to the post office. >> it looks that way. and whether you be, frankly, a permanent secretary of a department, a ceo of a company, if you are paid really well for doing an important job, not taking away from that, taking anything away from that, i believe that you need an i don't believe that you need an honour well. you're honour as well. you're remunerated that covers it. yeah. >> there's been talk about her perhaps the golden perhaps losing the golden handshake that she received . she handshake that she received. she got £3 million when she left. do you think that's too complicated to start clawing back money? or do you actually maybe that do you actually think maybe that is that the is an approach that the government take? is an approach that the govwell,3nt take? is an approach that the govwell, i|t take? is an approach that the govwell, i think take? is an approach that the govwell, i think there's? >> well, i think there's a danger of prejudging you danger of prejudging here. you know, we've i it's very know, we've got i it's very clear she did not exercise clear that she did not exercise control of her organisation . control of her organisation. that's right. because you must

the ceo you must know what's going on in your organisation. i'm pretty sure that if we'd had when i was in john cleese, if we'd had 58 successful appeals against us in a court of law, i would have known about it as the boss. so i assume they knew about it. so you have to assume they didn't choose to act upon it. but we would be wrong to prejudge that and take cash away. needs proper away. there needs to be proper inquiry to what's gone on inquiry as to what's gone on here. then, course, here. and then, of course, action follow. let's action must follow. but let's not prejudge. action must follow. but let's notand udge. action must follow. but let's not and what's your business >> and what's your business minded sort intuition on on minded sort of intuition on on fujitsu because again , there's fujitsu because again, there's been the suggestion that they knew there were bugs in knew that there were bugs in this system and on it went. and then went on to then of course, they went on to be billions in further be rewarded billions in further government contracts. >> it's really same >> so it's really the same answer as the post office part of leadership in business is you know, you're in a really responsible position. people are relying on you. that notion of trust, we're obsessed with that. in john lewis. and if a ceo of an it supplier, you know, it is

doing wrong, you have a moral responsibility to turn around and do something about it. so exactly the same . but i do exactly the same. but i do again, i'm quite careful not to sort of slam all business. you know , be very easy, just as in know, be very easy, just as in zero eight to say business is bad. i'm also huge believer bad. i'm also a huge believer that good business is an incredible good the incredible force for good in the country, and we've just got to be careful about judgement country, and we've just got to bethis. ful about judgement country, and we've just got to bethis. let'syout judgement country, and we've just got to bethis. let's talk judgement country, and we've just got to bethis. let's talk aboutdgement in this. let's talk about birmingham then. >> what on earth has gone on with now with birmingham council now declared bankrupt, the labour run council saying run council is saying that people's tax bills will people's council tax bills will have to go up i think, have to go up by, i think, 10% to what's happened. to compensate what's happened. >> so it's 10% this year, it's 10% next year. so they've announced 20% cumulatively. and you whatever's happened you know, whatever's happened with the politics, you have to think, about think, first of all about hard pressed taxpayers pressed council taxpayers across the was on doorsteps in the city. i was on doorsteps in northfield only yesterday morning. is morning. and this this is hurting people on the ground. so let's remember that. but what's happened? very happened? it's really very straightforward. they straightforward. it's that they have both on under lying budget and also some one off issues. got this equal pay claim that has come since 2017. three

quarters of £1 billion. it was an enormous amount of money in equal pay pay claims that they face. so they simply cannot balance their budget. hence the declaring effective bankruptcy and then of course, they have to get back into financial security. and that's why council tax is going up directly as a result of this. >> i mean, presumably you support the idea of women being paid equally to men , but this paid equally to men, but this has been mismanaged, has it? of coui'se. >> course. >> i mean, every organisation in the country, not just local authorities, that's sort of enshrined, isn't it? so and the sort of depressing thing about birmingham, you could use the word the scandalous thing actually, is that there was an equal pay claim before that was settled in 2014, effectively be settled in 2014, effectively be settled by the then leader of the council swiftly. and then a new claim has come since 2017, andifs new claim has come since 2017, and it's utterly depressing that, you know, the same thing has happened twice, and citizens in birmingham are left paying the bill. >> i mean, obviously the council

would push back on what you're saying and say that actually it hasn't mismanaged funds and it's doing by doing its best by its constituent speak. but constituent s, so to speak. but let's about something let's talk about something different your role in different involving your role in birmingham the idea that you birmingham and the idea that you have huge success have had huge success with housing meeting housing housing and meeting housing targets. now, tell us, andy, how have you managed to do this? because the conservative government been criticised government has been criticised for building enough houses. for not building enough houses. that's been a criticism also made of the previous made by the way, of the previous coalition and indeed labour administrations. but what are you right you can you doing right that you can tell sunak to do in order tell rishi sunak to do in order to build more housing? >> so first thing, it's not just about me and it's not just about birmingham. this is a west midlands region number, actually. ask actually. and the reason you ask the just so viewers the question, just so viewers understand are the understand this, is we are the only region the country which only region in the country which is its housing target . is achieved its housing target. how how. yeah. so three things i'd call out. first of all, all our local authorities working together this sort of together in this sort of technical duty to cooperate, to have a target number and then have a target number and then have plan to actually achieve have a plan to actually achieve them. very pro—growth policies with with developers who come

forward. so our councils naturally are inclined to support them. and then, critically, our role is to find funding , public funding to close funding, public funding to close those. the viability gap in private schemes that wouldn't otherwise be viable, particularly in brownfield remediation. so the thing that i'm so pleased about is we're achieving our numbers, an average of about 16,000 homes per year in the last six years, whilst protecting all of our green belts. so we're bringing old industrial, disused place back into use for housing, and it's all those things together that give us that great position. >> do you think there's too much nimby ism? not in my backyard ism in the tory party, because this is a huge electoral issue, isn't it? there are people now who saying need more who are saying we need more housing. might have housing. they might have previously but previously been opposed, but now they're their they're looking at their children and their grandchildren, their grandchildren, even their great grandchildren. afford grandchildren. they can't afford to nearby . so housing grandchildren. they can't afford to nearby. so housing is to live nearby. so housing is the key. you'll have people like simon clarke singing from this hymn sheet. yet at the same time, there are other tories like theresa villiers and others

who to want block housing. >> yeah, it's a great question. i think it's really important to my party and it's and it's offer to people coming up. i'm very much simon view of much in the simon clarke view of this that actually we have to find a way that we build those homes affordable homes include affordable homes. i'm our i'm very pleased that our percentage of affordable is going and one thing i would going up, and one thing i would definitely not done definitely not have done is remove the target of that. we have for each area, because that definitely has driven this collaborative behaviour across the west midlands. so i want that target and i want actually my party to demonstrate that it can deliver on the ground. just one thing though, because the journalists very easy journalists make this very easy for party. if you for the labour party. if you actually at what has been actually look at what has been produced the year produced in the last year centrally across a whole country, it's nearly double what was last year of the was done in the last year of the last labour government. so let's just many lessons just not take too many lessons on that. >> andy, i don't like to make life for either or life easy for either tory or labour politicians. can assure labour politicians. i can assure you. talk about hs2 you. can we talk about hs2 briefly? did threaten to briefly? and you did threaten to resign birmingham to resign if that. birmingham to manchester leg was scrapped? it was why you

resign? >> so let's be very clear about this. people suggested i should resign. threatened the resign. i never threatened the prime weren't. prime minister. you weren't. i wasn't happy , i wasn't and wasn't happy, i wasn't happy and no beating the bush. i did no beating about the bush. i did consider why didn't consider about it. why didn't i resign? there were many consider about it. why didn't i resigrissues there were many consider about it. why didn't i resigrissues to there were many consider about it. why didn't i resigrissues to fight'e were many consider about it. why didn't i resigrissues to fight for,are many other issues to fight for, particularly . you know, the particularly. you know, the party's bigger than one simple thing, to party's bigger than one simple thin tell to party's bigger than one simple thin tell you to party's bigger than one simple thin tell you what's to party's bigger than one simple thin tell you what's gone to party's bigger than one simple thin tell you what's gone on to just tell you what's gone on since. the prime since. so since the prime minister actually, he made his speech and he said in that speech, welcome proposals speech, i will welcome proposals from for improved from andy street for improved connectivity birmingham connectivity between birmingham and manchester. as he said . and and manchester. as he said. and the news is working with the good news is working with andy burnham. now andy burnham. we have now commissioned private sector commissioned the private sector to with those proposals to come up with those proposals and government is really very welcoming of that work at the moment. so we have not given up the idea of much improved connectivity between the west midlands and greater manchester. >> andy, i mean, hs2 is a project now we've read in the week that actually the trains are be slower not are going to be slower and not be take as many people be able to take as many people as they thought. they're not going to all the way into going to come all the way into euston. this rail project euston. this whole rail project is a disastrous bit is a disastrous that last bit about right.

about euston isn't right. >> the work still >> actually, the work is still it's not going to be happening in for another seven in houston for another seven years. in houston for another seven yeathat's but i mean, >> that's correct. but i mean, what's the of is he's what's the point of it is he's going go to houston and he's going to go to houston and he's going to go to houston and he's going to go all the way to the it isn't opening to birmingham until about seven years time. it isn't opening to birmingham untactually, even years time. it isn't opening to birmingham untactually, evenis ears time. it isn't opening to birmingham untactually,evenis a rs time. it isn't opening to birmingham untactually,evenis a bitime. it isn't opening to birmingham untactually,evenis a bit ofe. it isn't opening to birmingham untactually,evenis a bit of a >> actually, this is a bit of a white elephant. >> not true. that's >> no, that's not true. that's cost millions billions cost millions and billions and actually isn't delivering its actually isn't delivering on its original pledge. >> so let's be clear. is >> so let's be clear. uh, it is overspent hs2 overspent the execution of hs2 has i am not here has not been good. i am not here to defend hs2 limited, and the fact are significantly over fact they are significantly over budget, the principle of a budget, but the principle of a new london new connectivity between london and north and birmingham and the north that to be held on to and it that has to be held on to and it will within seven will open within about seven years. street gives years. two curzon street gives us incredible opportunity. us an incredible opportunity. >> patient man, andy >> you're a patient man, andy street, years time. all street, seven years time. all right. enough. you so right. fair enough. thank you so much joining this much for joining me this morning. lovely see you. morning. lovely to see you. thank lots more still thank you. well, lots more still to the show. don't go to come on the show. don't go anywhere after the break anywhere because after the break i'm going to be speaking wes i'm going to be speaking to wes streeting. health streeting. the shadow health secretary. just a jiffy .

on gb news. the people's channel on gb news. the people's channel, britain's news channel . channel, britain's news channel. welcome back to the camilla tominey show. delighted to be joined in the studio by wes streeting, shadow health secretary mp for secretary and labour mp for ilford north. wes, if i may call you that. how are you? lovely. i've been called worse. lovely to see. >> very nice. >> very nice. >> it's slick, isn't it? first day here? absolutely. very good to see you in studio and in the flesh, rather than down the

line, to speak. let's line, so to speak. right. let's talk about strike the talk about this strike on the houthis, i'm intrigued talk about this strike on the ho the 5, i'm intrigued talk about this strike on the ho the division i'm intrigued talk about this strike on the ho the division ini'm intrigued talk about this strike on the ho the division in the intrigued talk about this strike on the ho the division in the labour d by the division in the labour party over this issue. we've had by the division in the labour partylabouriis issue. we've had by the division in the labour party labour colleague ve've had by the division in the labour partylabour colleague asve had by the division in the labour party labour colleague as bannau your labour colleague as bannau begum labelling by begum labelling the strikes by britain and america as dangerously . i mean, dangerously provocative. i mean, is she familiar with who the houthis are and what they're capable ? there still some capable of? there are still some fruitcakes labour party, fruitcakes in the labour party, aren't there? >> well, provocation is >> well, the provocation is obviously part of the obviously on the part of the houthis. the that houthis. they are the ones that chose to commercial chose to attack commercial shipping even more shipping and perhaps even more seriously , chose to attack hms seriously, chose to attack hms diamond, one our own vessels diamond, one of our own vessels carrying personnel diamond, one of our own vessels carrthere personnel diamond, one of our own vessels carrthere to personnel diamond, one of our own vessels carrthere to protect'sonnel diamond, one of our own vessels carrthere to protect britain, are there to protect britain, keep us out of harm's way and i think the action the government's taken is the right action. it's the same action keir starmer would have taken if he were in number 10. and keir starmer has been clear about that. and i think by the way, keir being no doubt is keir starmer being no doubt is speaking behalf the vast speaking on behalf of the vast majority of the labour party. there are 1 or 2 colleagues who've criticised. but should she speaks for the she lose, starmer speaks for the labour party. >> particularly >> it's not particularly befitting, an elective befitting, is it, of an elective representative to, in some way

seem to be supporting the houthis against british in houthis against the british in this? shouldn't begum lose the whip? >> well it's decision for >> well, it's the decision for keir starmer and the and the chief whip. well, i just think, you know, we're a democracy. we're going to disagree from time the important time to time. the important thing vast majority thing is that the vast majority of labour keir of the labour party, keir starmer, john healey, our shadow defence secretary, are absolutely clear, having been briefed on the government on the nature the threat well as nature of the threat as well as the information that i is the information that i think is in domain, which i'm in the public domain, which i'm surprised those comments. surprised by those comments. it's the houthis that have been provocative. it's the houthis that have been proyjust:ive. it's the houthis that have been proyjust british personnel and not just british personnel and a british ship , but they've british ship, but they've attacked british interests and we should be in no doubt whatsoever , particularly against whatsoever, particularly against the economic backdrop this country the their actions country faces. the their actions in the red sea are threatening the world economy as well as threatening the. >> starmer had previously said that he wouldn't ever support military action unless there was a parliamentary vote. so how does he square that circle? >> well, to be fair to kieran, he was interviewed this morning. the has been, i think, very the keir has been, i think, very clear about the fact that you

would want to have a vote in parliament before military action place, particularly action takes place, particularly when the deployment when it comes to the deployment of troops. there will always be circumstances in which government to quickly government has to act quickly and decisively and without reference to parliament, and that's why starmer would that's why keir starmer would have made exactly same have made exactly the same decision . in these decision. in these circumstances, the government did. to be fair to them , brief did. to be fair to them, brief the opposition before action took place, as well as the speaker of the house of commons and the prime minister's coming to the house of commons on monday. so while we criticise the prime minister many the prime minister for many aspects domestic record, aspects of his domestic record, well, not. and look, well, no, we're not. and look, we're don't out of we're not, we don't go out of our to disagree with the our way to disagree with the government the sake of it, government for the sake of it, especially comes to especially when it comes to foreign want try foreign policy. you want to try and speak with one voice as the country is keir starmer a hypocrite, though ask you this hypocrite, though i ask you this because intrigued this because i was intrigued by this story covered in the story that we covered in the week the telegraph that week on the telegraph that starmer taken qatari starmer had taken a qatari funded private jet to cop 28. >> it's his latest >> it's in his latest declaration financial declaration of financial interests . it shows the trip for interests. it shows the trip for

him, and three staffers cost £25,000. hang on a minute. wasn't this the same keir starmer who said he wouldn't travel out qatar for the travel out to qatar for the world cup because of the human rights record? well i'd say draw two distinctions. >> one is this meeting with the emir of qatar was about the crisis in gaza and the crucial role that qatar is playing in terms of hostage release and trying to see a diplomatic exit point from this terrible war as well as other areas of shared mutual interests . and it's right mutual interests. and it's right that we engage with world leaders. and there was an opportunity for keir to do that around the clock on the around the five grand fund private jet there, though we know his views on environmental issues, let alone his views on qatar's human rights record. >> yeah. well taking private jets should never be the norm , jets should never be the norm, particularly domestic flights, which the prime minister has been busy doing. >> there opportunity that >> there was an opportunity that arose keir to the emir arose for keir to meet the emir of qatar . but hang on a second of qatar. but hang on a second in terms of in terms of being

able to meet the emir of qatar on the timings were on the timings that were available to seize that available and to seize that opportunity. while keir opportunity. we while keir was in he that in dubai, he took that opportunity because keir is opportunity because if keir is the prime minister of the country, general country, after the next general election, we want to be able to work and influence chance with partners around the world, with other countries around the world, national world, in britain's national self—interest , but also in terms self—interest, but also in terms of sort of collective global interests as well, and criticism. qatar is playing a critical role at moment. in critical role at the moment. in the middle east. >> mean, i appreciate they >> i mean, i appreciate they have played a critical role in the release of hostages. we've have played a critical role in the rgot|se of hostages. we've have played a critical role in the rgot links hostages. we've have played a critical role in the rgot links to stages. we've have played a critical role in the rgot links to hamas we've have played a critical role in the rgot links to hamas housing, also got links to hamas housing, hamas qatar, and it hamas leader in qatar, and it could be a case of keep your friends close and your enemies closer. just show closer. however, this just show poor judgement, doesn't it? >> think, i it's i >> no, i think, i think it's i think it's even more important to engage. and whether people think it's even more important to eour ge. and whether people think it's even more important to eour allies d whether people think it's even more important to eour allies orrvhether people think it's even more important to eour allies or our her people are our allies or our adversaries or somewhere in between having a britain that is engaged on the global stage, trying use our influence and trying to use our influence and leverage to both in terms of our own national self—interest , but own national self—interest, but also in terms of the values that

britain holds on the international stage. it is important to engage . okay. important to engage. okay. >> i mean, some people might think a 25 grand private jet trip isn't exactly man of the people, but let's move on. let's talk about the green prosperity plan, is it an plan, that £28 billion. is it an ambition or a target? i'm getting confused because it was a and now it's been a target and now it's been watered ambition. watered down into an ambition. >> the target is for clean >> well, the target is for clean power and what labour power by 2030. and what labour has been setting out on energy policy i think, is an approach that delivers all sorts of benefits, lower bills for the consumer, which is really important. the cost of living crisis, more jobs, particularly in areas of our country that have suffered massive deindustrialisation over decades with the loss of older industries . with the loss of older industries. this the industries. this is the opportunity right, opportunity to put that right, okay, to give britain its energy security when it's, you security back when it's, you know, want to be prone know, we don't want to be prone to the whims of tyrants and dictators around the world when to the whims of tyrants and di comes around the world when to the whims of tyrants and di comes to>und the world when to the whims of tyrants and di comes to ouri the world when to the whims of tyrants and di comes to our energyyrld when to the whims of tyrants and di comes to our energy supply. n it comes to our energy supply. yes. said and what yes. what we have said and what has continued to be difficult for last couple of for us in the last couple of years since that commitment was initially made, is the state of

the economy and public finances and we're absolutely clear. keir starmer rachel reeves the entire shadow cabinet, the fiscal rules and sound management of the pubuc and sound management of the public finances come first. >> but are you going to replace those 32 gas fired plants, or are you going to retrofit them? and if you are, how much is that going to cost? and can you do it in the seven years? in the next seven years? >> we'll spell that out in >> well, we'll spell that out in our manifesto the at the our manifesto at the at the general election, be general election, which will be fully and funded. fully costed and fully funded. we get to clean power by we want to get to clean power by 2030. we to do so in a way 2030. we want to do so in a way that brings real benefits to consumers, not hikes up the cost because i think that's where the sweet spot of green transition is that there is. we unquestionably a cost to us in the longer terms of failing to act. but i think in the short to medium terms, we can deliver those benefits for consumers of lower bills as more and better paid jobs, and giving britain our security back . our energy security back. >> on >> quick question on toothbrushing before get on toothbrushing before we get on to what you want to talk about today, which is mental health, particularly among men,

toothbrushing and children, having tooth having to be taught tooth brushing schools, at brushing in primary schools, at what you around what point do you turn around and is also the result and say this is also the result of parenting? of bad parenting? >> is unquestionably. i >> well, it is unquestionably. i mean, from the mean, i'd say that from the outset, was very criticised outset, daly was very criticised for about won't use for talking about i won't use the on a sunday morning, the word on a sunday morning, but parenting, he was criticised. >> the left rounded on him and said, how dare you stigmatise these parents? but actually there that these parents? but actually theibad. that these parents? but actually theibad. why that these parents? but actually theibad. why don't that these parents? but actually theibad. why don't you that these parents? but actually theibad. why don't you teach hat these parents? but actually theibad. why don't you teach the are bad. why don't you teach the parents how to teach the children to brush their teeth, rather than lumbering teachers children to brush their teeth, rather thjob?imbering teachers with the job? >> there's doubt that >> well, there's no doubt that health can and do play >> well, there's no doubt that h> well, there's no doubt that h> well, there's no doubt that h> well, there's no doubt that h

you know, so we are acting in has work as with so has proven to work as with so many the policies many of the health policies we're setting we're taking we're setting out, we're taking things that are tried and tested and okay, how do and thinking, okay, well, how do we up and roll it we scale that up and roll it out? me tell you, out? because let me tell you, the has got more pilots than the nhs has got more pilots than the nhs has got more pilots than the raf. what they're not so good at adopting good good at is adopting good practice out everywhere. >> how do we adopt better good practice when comes to mental practice when it comes to mental health? know you're really health? i know you're really concerned health? i know you're really conc> biggest killer. it's >> it's the biggest killer. it's the biggest killer. should we do? men? do? of young men? >> of people say that care >> lots of people say that care in community worked well. >> i think a few things. one is we've commitment to have we've got a commitment to have dedicated health dedicated mental health support in and secondary in every primary and secondary school country. can you school in the country. can you start community? mental? yes. community. in community. mental health hubs in every community. 8500 every community. and 8500 extra mental who will mental health workers who will be specifically trained on self—harm, also big self—harm, which is also a big issue. it's a fully costed, fully will it fully funded policy. will it cost 300 three quarters of £1 billion? which alongside billion? wow. which alongside the that we've the wider invest that we've earmarked nhs fully earmarked for the nhs fully costed, this costed, fully funded in this case abolishing tax case by abolishing the tax breaks private breaks enjoyed by private schools private equity, schools and private equity, because would be a

because we think that would be a fairer question fairer way of question on private schools, your private schools, because your colleague phillipson colleague bridget phillipson wasn't to this as wasn't able to answer this as brief be. brief as you can be. >> are you going to do with >> what are you going to do with those children who probably when, get into in when, if you get into power in the autumn, may have left their schools already because their parents afford or parents can't afford them, or indeed schools indeed little schools have closed because can't closed down because people can't afford the fees. you're going to have of new children have thousands of new children in the state system. how are you going accommodate on going to accommodate them? on day answer well , day one? brief answer well, let's at the increase in let's look at the increase in private over more private school fees over more than a decade. >> no no no , i'm not buying >> no no no, i'm not buying these. hang a minute. these. no, hang on a minute. i'm not these crocodile not buying these crocodile tears from schools. hike from private schools. they hike their fees year after year their fees up year after year after year. >> councillors talked about there being 40,000 kids in the system. >> if this happens, well, they would say that. >> wouldn't they? say if it's 5000, why do they hang on a minute? >> because i think this needs to be called out. they hike up their year after we their fees year after year. we don't drops numbers as don't see drops in numbers as michael don't tell michael michael know. don't tell michael gove, is not a man. gove, who is not a man. i normally agree with, gave the best i've seen this best argument i've seen on this in the when funny in the times when he was funny

enough, in enough, when he wasn't in government and said why government and he said why should subsidise the should we subsidise the education oligarchs rather should we subsidise the educ put1 oligarchs rather should we subsidise the educ put the oligarchs rather should we subsidise the educ put the money 1s rather should we subsidise the educ put the money into ther should we subsidise the educ put the money into our than put the money into our state thousands of state schools? and thousands of children know what's going children don't know what's going to them in limbo? no to happen to them in limbo? no don't the crocodile tears of don't buy the crocodile tears of the schools. don't so gullible. >> thank you very much, wes streeting, here this streeting, for coming here this morning. joins morning. michael portillo joins me defence me now. former defence secretary, gb news presenter. he's 11 am. i just he's on from 11 am. i just wanted get quick wanted to get your quick reaction. michael to the airstrikes houthi rebels. reaction. michael to the airryoues houthi rebels. reaction. michael to the airryou think houthi rebels. reaction. michael to the airryou think there'llthi rebels. reaction. michael to the airryou think there'll be rebels. reaction. michael to the airryou think there'll be more.. do you think there'll be more strikes? was a good strikes? and was this a good idea the uk to support the idea for the uk to support the us in this endeavour? >> good idea is a funny >> well, a good idea is a funny way of putting it. i mean, i have i've read carefully have i've read very carefully what foreign secretary has what the foreign secretary has written newspaper today, written in the newspaper today, and agree with argument and i agree with his argument for necessary, but for why it was necessary, but i approached in very sombre approached this in a very sombre way. think we're at a very way. i think we're at a very dangerous moment. way. i think we're at a very dangerous moment . and the dangerous moment. and the dangerous moment. and the dangerous moment. and the dangerous moment is that there could escalation in the could be an escalation in the theatre of war that is, say, in theatre of war that is, say, in the middle east, or there could be reprisals taken against us here at home. so these decisions are not taken lightly. and i'm struck by the way, that david cameron, in his newspaper

article morning goes article this morning goes through way in which members through the way in which members of cabinet were consulted or of the cabinet were consulted or the were brought the departments were brought on board. was very board. i thought it was very interesting in your interview just have confirmation interesting in your interview just the have confirmation interesting in your interview just the oppositionynfirmation interesting in your interview just the opposition wasnation interesting in your interview just the opposition was alson that the opposition was also briefed. so i don't think there should be tone of gung ho should be any tone of gung ho ness about this. i think there will be further strikes. i think they are right thing to do. they are the right thing to do. but i also that we are at but i also think that we are at a very perilous moment. >> briefly, michael , what have >> briefly, michael, what have you the show at 11? >> um, i'm very interested in the post office situation. one of the things i'm very interested in is that despite all the journalism and despite all the journalism and despite all the journalism and despite all the parliamentary activity, what actually convinced the government that it could bring justice was a tv drama. why was that? so i'm going to be investigating that question . i'm investigating that question. i'm going to be talking to a northern ireland journalist who was sued for defamation by an ira bomber, a man who put a bomb in the old bailey and served time. and the journalist was sued for defamation of

character. the case was kicked out, but is sinn fein using defamation suits as a way of silencing criticism? and i'll be talking about a man called mike sadler , who's just died at the sadler, who's just died at the age of 103. you'll using the stars. he guided british forces across the desert in north africa so that they could attack german air bases with enormous effect . effect. >> sounds like another fascinating show. we'll stay tuned at 11 for that. thank you very much , michael portillo. now very much, michael portillo. now don't move a muscle because after the break, i'm going to be interviewing israeli interviewing the israeli government ellen interviewing the israeli gover after|t ellen interviewing the israeli gover after the ellen interviewing the israeli goverafter the break. ellen interviewing the israeli goverafter the break. now.len interviewing the israeli goverafter the break. now back .

i'm keeping you company right through until 7:00 this evening. p news, the people's . channel. p news, the people's. channel. welcome back to the camilla tominey show. >> now, elianne levy joins me in the studio. he's the spokesman for the israeli government. lovely to see you in the flesh. good to be here in the studio. i know you've had a very, very busy three months. let's talk about cameron and what he about lord cameron and what he said about the conflict the said about the conflict in the middle this week. i middle east this week. am i worried israel taken worried that israel has taken action be in breach action that might be in breach of international law, because this premises this particular premises has been whatever? of been bombed or whatever? yes of course. the foreign secretary course. is the foreign secretary in israel ? are you in support of israel? are you worried about what he's saying about breaching about you breaching international potentially international law, potentially the foreign secretary and the british government absolutely stand they said stand behind what they said immediately the massacre. immediately after the massacre.

>> houses of parliament >> when the houses of parliament and 10 downing street were lit up in the colours of the israeli flag, that is britain wants flag, and that is britain wants israel to win this war. and we saw just before those remarks by lord cameron, which were taken out the press, he out of context by the press, he said after consulting foreign office no reason office lawyers, he has no reason to are violations of to think there are violations of international law and he was very clear in that very interesting wrote with very clear in that very inte german wrote with very clear in that very inte german foreign wrote with very clear in that very inte german foreign minister with very clear in that very integerman foreign minister that the german foreign minister that hamas must lay down its arms. there no future for hamas there can be no future for hamas in a post—war gaza. and we know that the united kingdom still stands shoulder to shoulder with us as we fight to bring back the hostages bring to justice hostages and bring to justice the terror regime that perpetrated those unspeakable atrocity ago. atrocity a hundred days ago. >> are worried, though, that >> are you worried, though, that uk us support is slightly uk and us support is slightly wavering? these concerns wavering? i mean, these concerns about whether you have or haven't breached international law, i take your point about this perhaps being taken out of context, but there is this sense to which the western world and the international community are keeping their eyes closely on israel and israel's behaviour,

which wouldn't suggest that they have full support, that everything is doing everything that israel is doing is to say? i think is that fair to say? i think britain, states and britain, the united states and the the western world the rest of the western world understand that we are fighting for humanity the front lines for humanity on the front lines of humanity. >> em- e that after >> they understand that after hamas israel on october hamas invaded israel on october seventh, massacred 1200 people, abducted 250 people. anything short of a total israeli victory over hamas would send a message to terrorists and violent extremists all around the world that you can massacre people, and democratic societies have no right to fight back. and let's be clear, that is what the protests on the streets of london yesterday, the pro—hamas march, is calling for. they are calling to save hamas from the consequences of its actions. and we know that britain stands shoulder with us shoulder to shoulder with us because as we see, you know, even on the streets of even people on the streets of london yesterday calling for houthi attacks against british ships, they understand that we're side. we're on the same side. >> marchers will say we're >> some marchers will say we're not pro hamas, we're pro—palestinians. they would say that, they'll worried pro—palestinians. they would say that, thethey'll worried pro—palestinians. they would say that, the growing worried pro—palestinians. they would say that, the growing worrtoll in about the growing death toll in the , of course. the gaza strip, of course. >> if they truly

>> but if they were truly concerned about palestinian civilians, would for civilians, they would call for an to the fighting that sees an end to the fighting that sees hamas surrender. >> when, when, will >> well, when, when, when will the end? when the fighting end? is that when gaza when every gaza is destroyed or when every hamas terrorist killed ? or is hamas terrorist is killed? or is it actually when the us and the uk and others say, okay, enough's enough , we're enough's enough, we're in a fight for our lives now, there will be no end to the fighting that leaves the hostage in gaza and hamas still in power, because the first thing that hamas did after burning, beheading and raping so many people, abducting all those hostages was to tell us that it wants to do it again and again. >> and 1st october seventh was not enough. we want to end this war, but we want to end this war in a way that makes sure hamas cannot attack us again, because thatis cannot attack us again, because that is its reason existing that is its reason for existing in wage a never ending in order to wage a never ending war against our war and jihad against our people. if anyone thinks people. and so if anyone thinks we're going abandon we're going to abandon the vulnerable hostages in the hamas terror dungeons, they're sorely mistaken. >> but how do you assess the sort of victory for israel in this? because as it could be a case of numbers, we know that

key targets, key hamas leaders have already been taken out. >> over 8000 hamas terrorists. >> but many need to be taken >> but how many need to be taken out for this end ? out for this to end? >> goals in every single >> and our goals in every single one? >> and how what does that look like in practice and how long might that take? do think might that take? do you think our goals this war are to our goals in this war are to bnng our goals in this war are to bring back all the hostages? our goals in this war are to brirtherek all the hostages? our goals in this war are to brirthere will the hostages? our goals in this war are to brirthere will be the hostages? our goals in this war are to brirthere will be no; hostages? our goals in this war are to brirthere will be no; hosleftes? >> there will be no one left behind. we do not intend to abandon them there. to abandon them there. and to destroy. governing and destroy. hamas is governing and military infrastructure. and by the against the way, our fight against hamas is similar to the fight is very similar to the fight that britain and 85 other nafions that britain and 85 other nations had against isis a decade ago. they understood that they can't defeat an idea. no one thought they were going to destroy islamic extremism for all. you can remove it from all. but you can remove it from power. and joined power. and britain joined together with nations to power. and britain joined togeisis with nations to power. and britain joined togeisis cannot nations to power. and britain joined togeisis cannot have ations to power. and britain joined togeisis cannot have territory say isis cannot have territory from which conduct attacks from which to conduct attacks against the rest of the world. and our fight is very similar, with one small difference this isn't thousand miles away. isn't a thousand miles away. this literally backyard. this is literally our backyard. some people's homes in israel are away the are only metres away from the hamas terror regime. that is telling us it wants to burn whole families again , and we

whole families again, and we need our people to be able to go home, go to the homes that home, to go to the homes that were burned to a cinder on october sleep safely october 7th and to sleep safely in their beds. and for that to happen, the hamas terror regime can longer be their neighbour. >> and of those who accuse >> and what of those who accuse israel committing a genocide? israel of committing a genocide? you'll familiar with the you'll have be familiar with the scenes the hague , south scenes at the hague, south africa. of all nations, bringing a claim of genocide against the israelis . i was interested to israelis. i was interested to see former labour leader jeremy corbyn pop up at that hearing. i don't know what your response was to the hearing, but also his presence at it, defending israel at that case was the expert who literally wrote the textbook on international law. >> and on the other side was jeremy corbyn. camilla on october 7th, it was hamas that perpetrated an act of genocide . perpetrated an act of genocide. it sent its death squads with a mission to burn, behead, rape , mission to burn, behead, rape, torture, mutilate and abduct as many as possible. we many people as possible. and we are fighting to bring the are fighting to bring back the hostages and to bring hamas to justice. and we think it is outrageous that south africa has

decided to act as the legal arm of because what south of hamas, because what south africa trying to do at the africa is trying to do at the hague to give hamas stay of hague is to give hamas a stay of execution, intervene, to save execution, to intervene, to save hamas's skin shield it from hamas's skin and shield it from the consequences of the bloody massacre of jews since the holocaust. >> south africa will be saying that it's trying to stand up for the people of gaza, not necessarily hamas as a regime. >> south africa on october eighth blamed israel for the massacre. south africa is a country that has aligned itself diplomatically with iran and russia and hamas, and we think it's tragic that a country that once had a reputation of so proudly fighting against racism is now fighting pro bono on the side of the biggest racist of all and trying to save hamas from the consequences of that. and by the way, the uk has also said south africa's case. we say it's absurd. the uk says completely unjustified and two different things, couldn't it, you know, on one hand you're saying that they launching saying that they are launching this this hearing this campaign, this hearing against israel .

against israel. >> it could just be that they're launching it in support of the people of gaza, because there are legitimate concerns about the civilian the number of civilian casualties legitimate. casualties. they are legitimate. those concerns , aren't they? casualties. they are legitimate. thothereicerns , aren't they? casualties. they are legitimate. thothere are 1s , aren't they? casualties. they are legitimate. thothere are definitely they? casualties. they are legitimate. thothere are definitely reasons >> there are definitely reasons to be fearful for the safety of civilians. but the answer to thatis civilians. but the answer to that is to demand the surrender of to demand that of hamas to demand that the terror that perpetrated terror regime that perpetrated those down its those atrocities lay down its arms, release the hostages, and hand over its war criminals for a tribunal not to leave them on their feet , free to again their feet, free to fight again when they telling us they when they are telling us they want commit repeated acts of want to commit repeated acts of genocide. if you think you're standing genocide, standing up against genocide, you to save the you don't intervene to save the skin of terror regime that skin of the terror regime that is telling us 1st october seventh was not enough. it wants to commit more and more atrocities and that is why we are committed to fight both hamas these absurd hamas and to fight these absurd proceedings united proceedings that the united states said meritless states has said are meritless and galling , and particularly galling, because the people bringing those proceedings are those committed to further acts of genocide against our people. >> i mean, we've talked about the houthis. how the strikes on the houthis. how concerned are you about full

scale war breaking out with iran 7 scale war breaking out with iran ? i mean, so far, iran seems to have been hiding behind some of its proxies . but at the same its proxies. but at the same time, you'll understand that people listening to people watching and listening to this very worried about this show are very worried about britain's involvement in the escalating in the red escalating situation in the red sea. >> and by the way, the escalation is a reminder of the importance the uk israel importance of the uk israel alliance because on the one hand, you the rapists of hand, you have the rapists of hamas pirates of the houthis hamas and pirates of the houthis who allies on the other who are allies on the other side, the uk and israel are allies. and clear that we allies. and it's clear that we are the same side fighting allies. and it's clear that we are international side fighting allies. and it's clear that we are international peace ghting allies. and it's clear that we are international peace and 1g for international peace and security. we do not want to security. now we do not want to see an escalation. we have been warning since october 7th. we are after october are going after the october 7th. monsters. don't want to see monsters. we don't want to see this escalating un. unfortunately, hezbollah, the iranian proxy in lebanon , iranian proxy in lebanon, decided to join this war on the side of hamas. it's fired over 2000 rockets into israel . it's 2000 rockets into israel. it's led to 80,000 displaced israelis who have not been in their homes for three months and can't go back to their homes because hezbollah is shelling them. and we are warning them enough is

enough. desist and back away from the border as un security council resolutions require to back off, or we will have to push you away because our people need to return to their homes in peace and security. we don't think it's very much ask for. think it's very much to ask for. we there to be a peaceful we want there to be a peaceful diplomatic resolution, but if that does not happen, we are prepared to fight to get our people home to safety. >> ellen levy, thank you very much indeed forjoining this much indeed for joining me this morning. more to come, morning. lots more to come, including an interview with labour mp liam byrne. remember him? he famously wrote that there's no money left. note when he left government in 2010. does he left government in 2010. does he regret it now? but first, here's the weather. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello there , i'm jonathan >> hello there, i'm jonathan vautrey who of your gb news weather forecast provided by the met office? it is going to be quite a blustery, windy day for the vast majority of us, some

very tightly spaced isobars across the providing across much of the uk, providing gale places gale strength winds in places that going to be a that it's also going to be a very day for areas very wet day for western areas of scotland, with this trailing weather that has weather system that has essentially stalled across this region provide heavy essentially stalled across this regi

damp, with outbreaks of rain and drizzle quite murky in places. hill fog across ed davey the pennines. the cheviots still blustery across areas of england and wales, but the winds easing out for northern ireland, central areas of scotland. further rain is on the cards as we head towards tuesday and wednesday as well, so keep up to date with the forecast for by. >> looks like things are heating up. box spoilers, sponsors of weather on gb news . weather on gb news. >> welcome back liam byrne is with me now. he's the labour mp for birmingham hodge hill. he's also chair of the business select committee. he's the former chief secretary of the treasury. and he's written this book, the inequality of wealth. why it matters how to fix it why it matters and how to fix it , available at all good bookshops. liam lovely to see you. and i'm going to get on to the note in just a moment, because you are famous for the note that you left when you were, and these are the notes i wish i'd left. indeed. well, let's talk this book. why let's talk about this book. why write it? what's all about?

write it? what's it all about? >> so it's true. >> so it's true. >> i the note in the >> i left the note in the treasury. it's a traditional note. the traditional leaving note. the traditional leaving note to another to note from one team to another to say things were a little bit tight. what was the precise wording, please? >> , i'm afraid there is no money. >> yes. >> yes. >> now, course, the national >> now, of course, the national debt has doubled. living standards have basically not moved pretty everybody moved for pretty much everybody in country. but there is one in the country. but there is one group pretty well, group that's done pretty well, actually, britain. actually, the top 1% in britain. frankly never had it frankly have never had it so good. we've got lucky three car sales, private yacht sales, private sales an time high. >> is there anything wrong with that, mean, presumably that, though? i mean, presumably they're of people they're employing lots of people and money and and making lots of money and paying and making lots of money and paying tax. yes yes. paying a lot of tax. yes yes. >> but the real issue is what do you do about the other 99? >> so if you believe in aspiration opportunity, aspiration and opportunity, and if in i believe if you believe in what i believe in, which is building a wealth owning democracy, we've to owning democracy, we've got to grapple with the fact that right now, wealth is not being fairly shared. and it's davos this week and there are . some figures that and there are. some figures that i'm putting out today that basically show if current trends continue, the top 1% will grow

91 times richer than everybody else over the next few years. so you've got people doing 1% you've got some people doing 1% does of the tax, does pay most of the tax, doesn't it? >> doesn't actually, no it >> it doesn't actually, no it doesn't. no. there was a statistic to say that the top 1% in this country about 28% in this country paid about 28% of tax. of the tax. >> if you look at the income tax, be true. tax, that may be true. >> but you look at all taxes, >> but if you look at all taxes, vat, national insurance, that kind thing, actually you've kind of thing, actually you've got where got a situation right now where the society may the very luckiest in society may only 20% tax when 1 in only pay 20% tax when 1 in 5 people are paying 40% tax. why is that? because they're getting their investment is that? because they're getting their where investment is that? because they're getting their where iiisastment is that? because they're getting their where lils much1t is that? because they're getting their where lils much lower. income. where tax is much lower. so question we've got to so the question we've got to confront as a country is at a time when people can't afford a home of their own or the education they need for the future, or a pension for their golden how make sure golden age, how do you make sure that everybody gets the chance to build the wealth that they that everybody gets the chance to buil(beie wealth that they that everybody gets the chance to buil(beie we toh that they that everybody gets the chance to buil(beie we to build they that everybody gets the chance to buil(beie we to build tha' should be able to build in a country like we believe in country like ours? we believe in social mobility in this country. country like ours? we believe in socibelieve lity in this country. country like ours? we believe in socibelieve in/ in this country. country like ours? we believe in socibelieve in somethinantry. country like ours? we believe in socibelieve in something called we believe in something called the democracy. the property owning democracy. right a reality right now, that's not a reality for most people in our country, and we've got fix it now. and and we've got to fix it now. and the book's big ideas the book's got some big ideas about how you do that. >> and you to tell me

>> and i'd like you to tell me a couple of them in just a moment. i mean, the labour party, perhaps could perhaps even this book could stand accused of sort of perpetrating the politics of envy. you talk about the envy. i mean, you talk about the absurdity affluence in this absurdity of affluence in this book, that book, and you point out that jeff musk have jeff bezos and elon musk have both pursuing these both been pursuing these slightly selfish, slightly sort of selfish, aggrandising with spacex aggrandising plans with spacex rockets all of it. rockets and all the rest of it. i mean, of all, it's to i mean, first of all, it's up to them how spend their vast them how they spend their vast wealth. both employing wealth. they're both employing huge numbers people huge numbers of people and second all, when you talk second of all, when you talk about mobility, mean, second of all, when you talk ab0|could mobility, mean, second of all, when you talk ab0|could argue 3ility, mean, second of all, when you talk ab0|could argue what mean, second of all, when you talk ab0|could argue what bettern, second of all, when you talk ab0|could argue what better way you could argue what better way to your child above your to elevate your child above your own than work very own status than to work very hard, for them to go to hard, pay for them to go to private school, let them flourish, perhaps flourish, and perhaps be educated your own educated beyond your own education, and have them go to university and prosper. and yet, at the same time, labour seems to be wanting those to be wanting to hold those parents idea of parents back with this idea of slapping about on school fees. >> i'm not a big >> well, i'm not a big subscriber to the politics of envy. believe envy. i do believe in the politics empowerment. was politics of empowerment. i was an entrepreneur, tech an entrepreneur, a tech entrepreneur went from entrepreneur who went from a failing school in failing comprehensive school in essex the harvard business essex to the harvard business school on a fulbright scholarship and started a business came business before i came into politics, the book i

politics, the first book i wrote, actually, a book wrote, actually, was a book about history our about the history of our country, through the lives country, told through the lives of great entrepreneurs, and of ten great entrepreneurs, and it point that it makes a point that entrepreneurs history entrepreneurs make history by inventing but right inventing the future. but right now, we've got a lot of businesses britain that businesses in britain that actually value businesses in britain that act people. value businesses in britain that act people. just value businesses in britain that act people. just creating. for people. they just creating. they're extracting wealth. they're just extracting wealth. and the problem that you've got, when countries with high when you get countries with high levels of inequality, is those countries corrupt they countries become corrupt, they become and become become poor, and they become stagnant. that's not stagnant. and that's not a future that any of us want for britain. we want a country, i think, where young people are able to get a home to call their own. we want a place where, you know, people can have a pension for golden years. we want for their golden years. we want people able to train people to be able to train and retrain was magic bullet. retrain was the magic bullet. >> there probably isn't >> i mean, there probably isn't one for this, i mean, one for this, but i mean, i think everybody watching and listening would agree listening to this would agree that it would great to be that it would be great to be paid it'd be great for paid more. it'd be great for housing to more affordable. housing to be more affordable. but the economy is but the way that the economy is right mean, house prices right now, i mean, house prices aren't to down aren't going to come down any time soon. have others time soon. you'll have others worried we don't worried about that. we don't want crash to make want a housing crash to make sure that people can afford to get the ladder. equally, i

get on the ladder. equally, i think people might be legitimately particular think people might be le labourely particular think people might be lelabourely into particular think people might be lelabourely into particiand if labour come into power and we've what sadiq khan has we've seen what sadiq khan has just done rmt who just done for rmt workers, who some are already well paid. some say are already well paid. i drivers earn more i mean, train drivers earn more than of the national than half again of the national national living that if national living wage is that if you many public sector you give to many public sector workers pay rises, it's to workers pay rises, it's going to be inflationary end up be inflationary and end up clobbering rest of us. clobbering the rest of us. >> there's a couple of big >> so there's a couple of big things that we can do. and these are not novel, radical ideas. theideas are not novel, radical ideas. the ideas the book are all the ideas in the book are all ideas worked somewhere ideas that have worked somewhere in so we could get in the world. so we could get british pension funds actually investing business investing in british business right now. that doesn't happen. why up our pension why don't we roll up our pension funds like canada funds into something like canada and invest in and australia and invest in british for business the long terme? how create terme? that's how you create good businesses the long tum terme? that's how you create goochave nesses the long tum terme? that's how you create goochave got;es the long tum terme? that's how you create gooc have got the the long tum terme? that's how you create gooc have got the money ong tum terme? that's how you create gooc have got the money tog tum terme? that's how you create gooc have got the money to pay.n that have got the money to pay. well, we should make sure that young have got a deposit young people have got a deposit for home. only 4% of young for a home. only 4% of young people don't their people who don't own their home have and the have both the deposit and the earnings for a home. so i propose £10,000 dividend that propose a £10,000 dividend that goes a tax break or a goes in as a tax break or a savings match new savings match from a new sovereign wealth we had sovereign wealth fund. if we had not rid of all the north sea not got rid of all the north sea oil, we'd have a sovereign

wealth like 80 countries wealth fund like 80 countries around the world. >> lot money. i mean, how >> a lot of money. i mean, how much think? i think much do you think? well i think you you probably need you you you probably need a couple of hundred billion pounds for sovereign wealth fund, for a sovereign wealth fund, a bit the norwegians. bit like the norwegians. >> that you >> but the point is that you could to build something could afford to build something like slowly, like that carefully, slowly, over if you restore over time, if you restore fairness to tax system. fairness to the tax system. rishi sunak published his rishi sunak has published his tax returns. >> fairness to tax system. >> fairness to the tax system. well, because people being fiscally dragged into the top rate, exactly. fiscally dragged into the top rateand exactly. fiscally dragged into the top rateand 52 exactly. fiscally dragged into the top rateand 52 grandy. fiscally dragged into the top rateand 52 grand isn't fair, is it? >> i'll give you a really good example. >> exactly. so rishi sunak published his tax return a couple that was couple of years ago. that was a good thing for him to do. he declares an income of about £2 million a year. what he also million a year. but what he also declared that he only pays declared is that he only pays 21% that. now at a time 21% tax on that. now at a time when 5 people are paying when 1 in 5 people are paying 40% it doesn't seem right 40% tax, it doesn't seem right that who are doing really, that those who are doing really, really half the really well are paying half the rate of tax for everybody else. now there's lots of different ways restore ways that you can restore fairness the system. fairness to the tax system. the book into of them, but book goes into some of them, but the point is just restoring fairness. >> i mean, just putting taxes up for who better off. for people who are better off. >> no, it means that those with

the shoulders should the broadest shoulders should should bit more. should pay a little bit more. >> do you want to bring that >> but do you want to bring that 40% tax rate down or change the threshold that people who are threshold so that people who are on 52 which are your on 52 grand, which are your teachers, senior and teachers, senior teachers and royalty might royalty head teachers might be a police might the police officers, might be the so—called middle? so—called squeeze middle? doesn't it? doesn't seem right, does it? this that they're this fiscal drag that they're facing. so then you must be advocating bringing down advocating bringing taxes down for i would like to see taxes on >> i would like to see taxes on working come down, i working people come down, but i would to couple that with would like to couple that with a way in which we give young people a flying start in life. everybody to call everybody wants a home to call their own right now. that is simply for most simply not affordable for most young the is, young people. and the point is, this fix itself. this isn't going to fix itself. that's the big message of the book. and if we take book. and if we don't take action this wealth action now, this wealth inequality to get worse inequality is going to get worse and worse and worse, and we will end in a country of haves and end up in a country of haves and have and have yachts. i have nots and have yachts. and i don't think this country don't think in this country we're comfortable don't think in this country we're land comfortable don't think in this country we're land where:omfortable don't think in this country we're land where sometable don't think in this country we're land where some people with a land where some people are more equal than others. >> move to the post >> let's move on to the post office, you've office, because i know you've got important role this got a very important role this week in your capacity as chair of the business day on tuesday. yeah, tell tell us what's

happening. >> tuesday we're bringing >> so on tuesday we're bringing fujitsu and the post to fujitsu and the post office to the coming in the stand. they're coming in front house of commons front of the house of commons select business and select committee on business and trade morning. we'll trade on tuesday morning. we'll be hearing from mr bates and we are of are bringing together lots of evidence from subpostmasters around the country, because the key thing that really worries me is that we're 3 or 4 is that we're sort of 3 or 4 years from landmark trial years on from the landmark trial now only 15% of the now for but only 15% of the convictions been overturned convictions have been overturned and 4% the payments have and only 4% of the payments have been settled in full and final way. >> seems extraordinary. i know you've in the you've written about this in the sunday wrong. you're sunday express. wrong. you're saying is saying justice delayed is justice and also there's justice denied. and also there's a discrepancy between what kevin hollinrake which is hollinrake wants to do, which is compensate of compensate people by the end of august. heard rishi august. then we heard rishi sunak by the end of the yeah >> yeah. >> yeah. >> so we've got, you know, we've had a week of debate about this in the house of commons and there these big there are still these big questions unanswered. and of course, of those questions course, one of those questions is should fujitsu is what, frankly, should fujitsu that this failing system that built this failing system contribute compensation. contribute to the compensation. >> they should >> do you think they should contribute because the taxpayer will 480 will be looking at this with 480 million? least we're million? well, at least we're a major share in post office.

major share in the post office. >> why should we end up having to the for the post to pay the price for the post office? and indeed fujitsu's mistake. saying you mistake. so are you saying you think should stomach think fujitsu should stomach this entire bill of compensation? >> well, think it's clear that >> well, i think it's clear that their system went wrong they their system went wrong and they surely must at the very least surely we must at the very least have obligation to help have a moral obligation to help contribute to that whacking great bill, great compensation bill, because, as you say, why should taxpayers have front up half taxpayers have to front up half £1 billion for a system that when especially now, we don't know this, it's true that know this, but if it's true that somebody in fujitsu was waving a red flag or they knew that something was going wrong, did they stay silent when innocent people were going to prison? although on that subject, profit before people did your former labour colleague tony blair stay silent when there were false about the horizon system that he was made aware of? >> we've seen him made a little note on a piece of paper that was handed to him by jeremy heywood, then the head of the civil service and actually they didn't put a halt on the horizon project being rolled out because they were worried about

offending the japanese, as has tony questions to tony blair. got questions to answer. should be answer. maybe he should be hauled front your hauled in front of your committee, hauled in front of your conwell,e, hauled in front of your conwell, so there is a judicial >> well, so there is a judicial inquiry underway which going >> well, so there is a judicial inrgoy underway which going >> well, so there is a judicial inrgo into derway which going >> well, so there is a judicial inrgo into the way which going >> well, so there is a judicial inrgo into the deep1ich going >> well, so there is a judicial inrgo into the deep historygoing >> well, so there is a judicial inrgo into the deep history ofng to go into the deep history of who knew what and when. but i think the question for us on tuesday do we make sure tuesday is, how do we make sure that is delayed no that justice is delayed no longer? i think, is longer? parliament i think, is of a clear view that these convictions need to be overturned settlements overturned and settlements need to we need to know to be made. so we need to know how fast is that going to happen? when is the new legislation to arrive? and legislation going to arrive? and crucially, is going crucially, who the hell is going to for it? to pay for it? >> question, which i would >> quick question, which i would require no answer to require a yes or no answer to please. you regret that note? please. do you regret that note? >> of course. so that's a straight yes . but these are straight yes. but these are these are the notes i wish i'd left. well, indeed. >> so all right. so let's have a look at the notes. this is liam's book. am i handing in? which a.m. liam's book. am i handing in? which am. i? camera five. which 1 am. i? camera five. there are. we are. the there we are. there we are. the inequality of wealth. this is liam and it's liam byrne's new book, and it's available from all good bookshops. much available from all good bocjoining. much available from all good bocjoining me much available from all good bocjoining me this much available from all good bocjoining me this morning.nuch forjoining me this morning. lovely to see you. don't forget i'm to be here in i'm going to be back here in this new studio from 930

this shiny new studio from 930 next but first, it's of next week. but up first, it's of course, michael portillo from 11. a lovely day .

>> good morning and welcome to sunday with michael portillo. a cover to cover caper through culture, arts, politics and world affairs. it's been a seismic start to the year for britain on both the domestic and foreign fronts . the scandal of foreign fronts. the scandal of injustice against hundreds of the country's subpostmasters gathers pace following the heart rending drama on itv, dragging yet more of this country's institute into the mire of disrepute. will any heads roll? does the british establishment ever take responsibility for anything ? rishi sunak has anything? rishi sunak has authorised british involvement in airstrikes against the houthi rebels in yemen to degrade their ability to attack international shipping, are we leading the world into a minefield ? my world into a minefield? my political panel will join me in the studio very shortly . our the studio very shortly. our prime minister also flew to ukraine this week to pledge £2.5 billion of aid to the country and security guarantees to help

it to counter the