has arrived too, and it's rain has arrived too, and it's going to get a whole lot worse tonight. this is the ninth named storm of the season, and what makes this one unique is that it's going to affect the whole of the uk. the met office saying, make sure that everything in your garden is secure and fixed down. the risk from flying debris is very , very from flying debris is very, very real indeed. avoid coastal paths and avoid rural paths to the best thing you can do is to stay indoors, cut off flights coming into london's heathrow airport are experienced some shaky landings. >> the windy conditions are creating frightening conditions for many passengers, with several flights spotted looking unsteady as they descended into britain's main airport. some flights have now been cancelled . flights have now been cancelled. the duchess of york has been diagnosed with skin cancer just months after being treated for breast cancer. the diagnosis comes after she had several moles removed with one of those identified as being cancerous . a

identified as being cancerous. a spokesman for sarah, duchess of york, confirmed she's been diagnosed with malignant melanoma. she said to be undergoing further investigations to ensure it's been caught in the early stages . been caught in the early stages. the duchess is said to be in good spirits, despite the fact another cancer diagnosis so soon after the last one has been distressing . labour says the distressing. labour says the government's rwanda bill won't act as a deterrent to migrants entering britain illegally. the plan would see asylum seekers arriving in the uk sent to rwanda to have their claims processed . speaking to gb news processed. speaking to gb news presenter camilla tominey shadow immigration minister stephen kinnock said tackling the crisis depends upon international cooperation . cooperation. >> there's no way that shipping perhaps 1% of the number of people that come across the channel on small boats to rwanda is ever going to act as a deterrent . you're dealing with deterrent. you're dealing with people who are fleeing violence and persecution by stopping, wasting so much time on rwanda, which just a gimmick that is

which is just a gimmick that is doomed to failure. let's plough much more resource and time and energy into doing some of the things that have like things that have worked, like the we fully the albania deal. we fully support albania deal. how support the albania deal. how many countries that has many other countries that has worked deterrent? worked as a deterrent? >> or just a little bit of breaking news for you that we've been receiving in the last few minutes. a 36 year old woman and a 45 year old man found dead at a 45 year old man found dead at a house on friday in norfolk, both died from stab wounds to the neck . that's a statement the neck. that's a statement coming to us from norfolk constabulary earlier , norfolk constabulary earlier, norfolk police has referred itself to the independent watchdog after failing to respond to a999 call from a home where bodies were found. post—mortem examinations are currently underway . this is are currently underway. this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker. just say play on your smart speaker. just say play gb news. now it's over to free speech nation . free speech nation. >> nicola sturgeon deletes her

whatsapp messages a debate kicks off over prayer in schools , and off over prayer in schools, and a man who runs a rape crisis centre in scotland thinks that women who want single sex services are bigots. this is free speech nation judith raanan . welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. this is the show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics. and of course we will have the latest from those loveable, delightful, cute little warriors. little culture warriors. and as usual, provided usual, they've kindly provided usual, they've kindly provided us material all us with plenty of material all coming up on the show tonight. i'm speaking to i'm going to be speaking to director brown about his director travis brown about his important documentary, important new documentary, uncomfortable truths. the reality identity, reality of gender identity, ideology . doctor jan mcvarish ideology. doctorjan mcvarish from the speech union will from the free speech union will be here. she's going to be telling us about the state of free speech in northern ireland, as upcoming event in as well as an upcoming event in belfast. and author belfast. and lawyer and author luke here to luke gittoes will be here to tell us about plans to make hate crime and hate speech among the

most eu . most serious crimes in the eu. maybe it's lucky that we left. and course, myself and my and of course, myself and my fantastic panel will be answering questions from our rather beautiful audience rather beautiful studio audience and guests this and my comedian guests this evening cogan and evening are jonathan cogan and leo kearse, who . welcome both. leo kearse, who. welcome both. >> hello. hello how are you jonathan? >> doing good. you were out till 5 am. last night. you dirty, dirty stop out. >> i'm a bit snoozy today. >> i'm a bit snoozy today. >> yeah, you look a bit rough. >> yeah, you look a bit rough. >> we were slinging d all over town. we had a great time. >> what a slinging d mean? >> what a slinging d mean? >> don't worry. we went out. we went out drinking with some comedians, with the fellas. it was great. >> yeah. was great. mean >> yeah. okay. what about you, leo? been well. you've leo? you've been well. you've been been working. >> i'm also tired. but for >> so i'm also tired. but for more wholesome reasons. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> legitimate and have >> yeah. >.smalltimate and have >> yeah. >.small babye >> yeah. >.small baby as and have >> yeah. >.small baby as well?1d have >> yeah. >.small baby as well? yeah. have >> yeah. >.small baby as well? yeah. you'e a small baby as well? yeah. you know, got no time for know, you've got no time for this kind of gallivanting. no, not at it's outrageous. not at all. it's outrageous. let's get some questions. we've got really fantastic studio got a really fantastic studio audience uh, we've audience tonight. uh, we've got our first question coming from daniel. how daniel. daniel. hi, annie. how are good good. and how is are you? good good. and how is your brother? >> complain.

your brother? >> good.complain. your brother? >> good. wonderful okay, twins. what is your question? so my question should prayer question is that should prayer be in schools? should be banned in schools? should prayer school? this be banned in schools? should praye course school? this be banned in schools? should praye course been school? this be banned in schools? should praye course been a school? this be banned in schools? should praye course been a majorl? this be banned in schools? should praye course been a major storys is, of course been a major story this week because of katharine birbalsingh school. the michaela community school, which i have visited. a fantastic visited. it's a fantastic school. facing high school. they're facing a high court challenge from a muslim pupil like pupil because she doesn't like the prayer the fact that there is no prayer allowed community allowed at michaela community school. ban is there school. i mean, the ban is there because it is a secular school and various religious groups make sacrifices. so make various sacrifices. so they've parents they've had christian parents complaining can't, complaining that they can't, that revision that they're doing revision sessions have sessions on a sunday. they have jehovah's parents jehovah's witness parents complaining that they're studying that's complaining that they're stm allowed, that's complaining that they're stmallowed, because that's complaining that they're stmallowed, because got at's not allowed, because it's got witches they're upset witches in it. so they're upset about that. it's a great play, mind you. um, is right that a mind you. um, is it right that a high court should be looking into no, of course not. and if you send your kids to >> and if you send your kids to a school because the system there amazing results there gets such amazing results and it does get amazing results. ofsted number out ofsted ranked at number one out of thousands and thousands of schools . so you schools for improving. so if you send kids this school to send your kids to this school to benefit this system, you benefit from this system, you can't in and be like, can't go in there and be like, well, actually, we need to change system my kids change the system and my kids need to be to five need to be able to pray five

times day and all that sort of times a day and all that sort of stuff. i think there should be. there should be. i think if any parent this because it's parent says this because it's coming the parents, coming from the parents, obviously should forced obviously they should be forced to and i think to be scientologists and i think no one should endure that kind of have of punishment because you'd have to tom cruise all to hang out with tom cruise all the find out, you the bean cans, find out, you know, that personality test. know, do that personality test. >> love the test. >> i'd love to do the test. i want to know how many demonic auens want to know how many demonic aliens spirits i've got inside me. yeah apparently cost quite a bit of them, but bit to get rid of them, but i just want to know if i've got a personality. yeah, you personality. yeah, well, you know, tell you that leo, know, i can tell you that leo, the test comes back negative. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> what do you by the >> what do you think, by the way? say that the way? we should say that the daily uh, just daily mail, uh, have just reported that the school girl who the action was who has taken the action was actually, um. i think she was suspended last year for trying to another girl. really? suspended last year for trying to so another girl. really? suspended last year for trying to so let's:her girl. really? suspended last year for trying to so let's justgirl. really? suspended last year for trying to so let's just say really? suspended last year for trying to so let's just say the lly? suspended last year for trying to so let's just say the plot thickens. >> um, now her behaviour is improving. >> yeah, clearly, we should >> yeah, clearly, what we should say what what we say to suing. what what what we should say. jonathan about the michaela school. think it is michaela school. i think it is really that people really important that people understand this a understand this. this is a school this school for inner city kids. this is for underprivileged is a school for underprivileged kids. they get incredible

results. when there, results. and when i went there, i surprised. i was genuinely surprised. there's the there's no talking in the corridors. you get detention if you your pen. the you forget your pen. the discipline is really, really severe. but result of that severe. but as a result of that gb it is. i mean, we're gb news it is. i mean, we're quite we're quite stringent. you're let you're never going to let that 90, you're never going to let that go, you, um but the go, are you, leo? um but the point is that it does work. now, i i have always been of i think i have always been of the that children need to the belief that children need to be effectively. be socialised effectively. discipline important. discipline is really important. look what happened to me. >> well, exactly. >> well, exactly. >> went to posh >> you you went to a posh private you private school where you could do you want. private school where you could do everyone you want. private school where you could do everyone assumes. private school where you could do everyone assumes i to >> everyone assumes i went to private didn't, you private school. i didn't, you know, it was posh other know, it was a posh other school. wasn't, but it was school. it wasn't, but it was a posh posh school, yeah. >> and you turned out terribly. you have no discipline at all? >> no, a mess. yeah you're you have no discipline at all? >> absolutea mess. yeah you're you have no discipline at all? >> absolute mess. ;. yeah you're you have no discipline at all? >> absolute mess. i'm ah you're you have no discipline at all? >> absolute mess. i'm ah hunge an absolute mess. i'm so hung oven an absolute mess. i'm so hung over. i shouldn't even on over. i shouldn't even be on television that's television right now. but that's fine. through television right now. but that's finebut through television right now. but that's finebut don't through television right now. but that's finebut don't you through television right now. but that's finebut don't you think jgh television right now. but that's finebut don't you think that >> but don't you think that you would benefited would have been benefited from going to a school tequila? going to a school like tequila? >> so. i think going to a school like tequila? >> definitely, ithink going to a school like tequila? >> definitely, um,ink going to a school like tequila? >> definitely, um, lots of there's definitely, um, lots of advantages read advantages to that. i read through of the rules that through some of the rules that the they the school has, like they sit you six, you can't you in groups of six, you can't sit whoever you want. yeah, sit with whoever you want. yeah, a been great a lunch would have been great because have because then i would have had some the same some friends. but at the same time, same it that

time, at the same time, it that kind of authority for me. i don't think that have don't think that would have worked. push back. worked. i have to push back. >> to. worked. i have to push back. >> but to. worked. i have to push back. >> but also to. worked. i have to push back. >> but also appreciate >> but i also appreciate that trying and it does trying something new and it does getwell, the is >> well, one of the ideas is that people religious that people have religious groups. roughly 50% of groups. i mean, roughly 50% of the but there the pupils are muslim, but there are other religious faiths there, and they don't want people they don't people to segregate. they don't want in want all the muslims sitting in one place and all the sikhs sitting and they sitting in another. and they don't want that. they want people the people to mix. and that was the idea in the idea of going vegetarian in the cafeteria sits cafeteria so that everyone sits together and talks together. >> valuable. >> that's very valuable. yeah >> that's very valuable. yeah >> question >> and it's too weak to question any well, well >> yeah. well, exactly. well that's have incredible >> but i have some incredible upper don't upper body strength, and i don't eat meat. do you want an arm wrestle? want that wrestle? do you want to do that right now? do it right now. >> your shirts off. >> i'll take your shirts off. >> i'll take your shirts off. >> no, i don't actually want to do shirt do that. i'm not taking my shirt off. maybe later. okay, let's off. maybe later. okay, so let's move question. now move on to another question. now we've henry. we've got a question from henry. where is henry? henry. where is henry? hello, henry. >> hello. do you regularly delete your whatsapp messages? do deleted one. >> g because g-n >> no. okay. because you've got nothing to hide, i believe you, uh, is actually, course, nothing to hide, i believe you, uireferenceactually, course, nothing to hide, i believe you, uireference to ually, course, nothing to hide, i believe you, uireference to nicola course, nothing to hide, i believe you, uireference to nicola sturgeon . a reference to nicola sturgeon. >> and is a hearing of >> um, and this is a hearing of the this was in the covid inquiry. this was in edinburgh this week has found the covid inquiry. this was in edirthat|h this week has found the covid inquiry. this was in edirthat nicola week has found the covid inquiry. this was in edirthat nicola sturgeon, found the covid inquiry. this was in edirthat nicola sturgeon, thed out that nicola sturgeon, the former first minister, has not retained any of her whatsapp messages. now it's interesting, leo, you will, i'm sure, have a

lot to say this as a huge lot to say about this as a huge nicola sturgeon fan, i know you've a of your you've got a bust of her in your living room. various posters, but is , uh, but what i would say is, uh, some of her critics are saying that actually is not that actually this is not necessarily lawful. that's the claim they're making, because these relating to these are documents relating to these are documents relating to the inquiry that were the inquiry that people were told in advance would to be told in advance would have to be retained. do you think that now, look, we don't for sure look, we don't know for sure whether that's right or not, but what all this. yeah. no quhe yeah. no quite it's quite >> no it's quite it's quite a serious if, it does serious breach. if, if it does transpire here that she deleted whatsapp are documents that told these are documents that are, you know, were in the discovery phase the inquiry. discovery phase of the inquiry. so we're going we're going to need no no, not at need those. no no, not at all. uh, , uh, people went uh, boris, uh, people went through whatsapp, so maybe through his whatsapp, so maybe after they saw what happened when through boris's when people went through boris's whatsapps, why, you know, whatsapps, that's why, you know, people their people are now deleting their whatsapp. yeah, but this is yeah, quite yeah, this is this is quite a serious, uh, thing. on the serious, uh, thing. so on the downside, know, shows downside, you know, it shows that the scottish government lies and know , is in lies and, and you know, is in contempt of court, possibly . but contempt of court, possibly. but on the plus side, nobody's going to see the horrible dick pics that were in those messages. >> okay. just just like to apologise . just like apologise. just like to

apologise. just like to apologise language apologise for that language or sorry anyone sorry about that. if anyone was offended remember offended by that. leo remember this pre—watershed show . this is a pre—watershed show. um, make of this um, but what do you make of this point about nicola sturgeon? potentially, because sometimes you set your whatsapp to delete, don't ? like? i think don't you? like? i think sometimes it sometimes you have it automatically maybe automatically deleted. maybe it's mistake. automatically deleted. maybe it's yeah stake. automatically deleted. maybe it's yeah , ake. automatically deleted. maybe it's yeah , ike. automatically deleted. maybe it's yeah , i mean possibly, but >> yeah, i mean possibly, but i think she , she set that up after think she, she set that up after , you know, after being told and also i think if you're, you know, if you're using whatsapp also i think if you're, you knial, if you're using whatsapp also i think if you're, you knia communication whatsapp also i think if you're, you knia communication whait'srp as a communication tool, it's part of the, the evidence trail for decisions made in government. you've got to government. so you've got to you've got to preserve that . you've got to preserve that. >> feel giving her >> i just feel like giving her the benefit of the doubt on this one a little bit. may well. no. well booed . jury well oh i'm getting booed. jury getting booed my own show. getting booed on my own show. well this is ridiculous. i think you people are right. next case. this about free speech this is about free speech and different . unbelievable. different ideas. unbelievable. and i like you siding with and i don't like you siding with leo do leo anyway. jonathan, what do you of this? you make of this? >> strikes me kind >> she strikes me as a kind of person who accidentally wipes her a month. her phone about once a month. do you it a you think? yeah, it was a fumble. no no. accidentally. i think know how think she just doesn't know how to so it might be to upgrade. yeah, so it might be an yeah. well, i >> exactly. yeah. well, look, i think a lot people are think a lot of people are annoyed this because , annoyed about this because,

well, a string of well, she has had a string of failures hasn't she? know, failures, hasn't she? you know, across board . i think across the board. and i think people sick people are just getting sick and tired wasn't tired of haircut. well, i wasn't talking haircut . i talking about the haircut. i think i think she think she looks i think she looks out. looks perfectly well turned out. let's a question let's move on to a question for marcus . where's marcus? hi marcus. where's marcus? hi there. . there. hi, marcus. >> worried >> um, should we be worried about snp's new conversion about the snp's new conversion therapy legislation ? therapy legislation? >> okay, well, this is an interesting one. uh, it's a bit complicated. the snp is trying . complicated. the snp is trying. to ban what they call conversion therapy. we've had a lot of discussions about discussions on this show about the uk government talking about a conversion therapy. um, a ban on conversion therapy. um, but it's a bit complicated because when we think of conversion therapy, we think about in the 70s or 60s about back in the 70s or 60s when they would wire . gay when they would put wire. gay men up to electrodes and try and convert them away from their sexual that's sexual orientation. that's not what that sexual orientation. that's not what go that sexual orientation. that's not what go anymore. that sexual orientation. that's not what go anymore. they'ret doesn't go on anymore. they're talking about the idea that if a young goes to a gender young person goes to a gender clinic, feels uncomfortable, maybe symptoms maybe experiencing symptoms of gender , and then the gender dysphoria, and then the doctor well, let's doctor says, well, let's talk about this. let's examine where these feelings might come about this. let's examine where these activists might come about this. let's examine where these activists are ht come about this. let's examine where these activists are saying come about this. let's examine where these activists are saying that1e from. activists are saying that thatis from. activists are saying that that is a conversion that is a form of conversion therapy because you're trying to

move their move them away from their authentic self, though authentic self, even though studies have shown that the majority of those kids are likely turn out gay , might likely to turn out gay, might have internalised homophobia , have internalised homophobia, oftentimes are autistic . so oftentimes are autistic. so there are other reasons why you might want explore this. now, might want to explore this. now, this is an interesting story because said that it because the snp has said that it is talking to an adviser board in order to get an impartial view of all the rest of it. that advisory board, according to a website called wings over scotland , they found out that scotland, they found out that this the information has actually from actually just disappeared from the snp's website wings over scotland looked into it, apparently 15 of the 15 members of the advisory panel are all trans activists or gender ideologues, so not looking to impartial to me? >> no, not at all. and uh, yeah, as you said, the conversion therapy thing is actually so the banning conversion therapy now is actually, uh, allowing conversion therapy therapy to happen because you can see, you know, the trans ideologists, they see, you know, they've got this hammer. so everything looks

like nail to them. so, you like a nail to them. so, you know, gay, you know, if a kid's gay, which, you know, if a kid's gay, which, you know, report other know, the cast report and other research has shown that, you know, are know, most trans kids are actually actually gay . so actually actually gay. so they're transitioning gay gay kids, so they're converting gay kids, so they're converting gay kids to being, you know, the other the other gender. >> that's i mean, that's exactly right . is that, you know, when right. is that, you know, when people say want ban on people say we want a ban on trans conversion therapy, what they mean is they want legalised gay mean, gay conversion therapy. i mean, this happening. this is really what's happening. in there's book in fact, there's a book by hannah time hannah barnes called time to think, between hannah barnes called time to thi and between hannah barnes called time to thi and 90% between hannah barnes called time to thi and 90% of between hannah barnes called time to thi and 90% of adolescentsween hannah barnes called time to thi and 90% of adolescents wh0| 80 and 90% of adolescents who were referred to tavistock were referred to the tavistock paediatric clinic were in fact same sex attracted. so we are in a situation where people are just fixing heterosexual izing gay kids , and they're calling it gay kids, and they're calling it progress. and the scottish government to government seems to me to be complicit this . complicit in this. >> sounds absolutely >> no, that sounds absolutely insane. what's really worrying to the fact that these to me is the fact that these kids you know, kids are obviously you know, they're suffering. they're they're suffering. they're they're their they're questioning their identity. for the identity. and then for the doctors not to actually be able to conversation about it to have a conversation about it and punished that. and get punished for that. that's that's the fear. >> also it is a worry. why that's that's the fear. snp that's that's the fear. snp saying, >> and a that's that's the fear. snp saying, well, >> and a that's that's the fear. snp saying, well, on >> and a is the snp not saying, well, on this expert advisory group, why

don't experts who don't we have some experts who might think conversion might think that gay conversion therapy a thing? why not therapy is a bad thing? why not do that ? you know, have do that? you know, just have a few that would do that? you know, just have a fevgreat. that would do that? you know, just have a fevgreat. some that would do that? you know, just have a fevgreat. some balance,ld be great. show some balance, a bit . you know, bit of balance. you know, have some the some actual progressives on the advisory group. that be advisory group. that might be a good that's just good idea anyway. that's just my thoughts. bashing good idea anyway. that's just my th0|snp.. bashing good idea anyway. that's just my th0|snp tonight, bashing good idea anyway. that's just my th0|snp tonight, but bashing good idea anyway. that's just my th0|snp tonight, but goodness] the snp tonight, but goodness knows it. anyway, knows they deserve it. anyway, we're going to move on to a question armin. hi, question now from armin. hi, armin, welcome back. you were here last week. >> evening. fan >> yeah. good evening. fan >> yeah. good evening. fan >> um mo >> good evening gentlemen. um mo mowlam. . um, are the mowlam. thank you. um, are the german pro testing farmers fuelling the far right now? >> armin, i know you have some views on this because we've spoken about this before. the protests in germany of the farmers , as there was an article farmers, as there was an article in the guardian. i think it just came actually, where came out today, actually, where they about how they were talking about how the guardians farmers they were talking about how the guefuelling farmers they were talking about how the guefuelling the farmers they were talking about how the guefuelling the right. farmers they were talking about how the guefuelling the right. if'mers are fuelling the far right. if they're not far right themselves. going on themselves. what's going on there, armin? do you think i think at the moment the media seem of seem to be putting every type of protest from innocent people who are about their jobs are protesting about theirjobs into the far right . into the far right. >> yeah. category. >> yeah. category. >> can you explain in a nutshell what you think the farmers are

actually about? what you think the farmers are actually the about? what you think the farmers are actually the germans»ut? the >> well, the germans are the german farmers protesting german farmers are protesting against all these make believe green . they want to they green stuff. they want to they want to put basically solar panels all over their land. they want to cut down on food production, which at the long run, everyone's going to end up paying run, everyone's going to end up paying food. paying more for food. >> so this to do with their >> so this is to do with their livelihoods, really? livelihoods, of course. really? absolutely and leo, i mean, this is trend . i that's is an odd trend. i think that's happening. i've spoken happening. you know, i've spoken before canadian before about the canadian truckers who were told who were told fascist , told that they were fascist, that they were right, and of that they were far right, and of course, a dog whistle. >> that stuff. >> that stuff. >> yeah. no, that's right. >> yeah. no, no. that's right. so honk apparently so honk, honk was apparently interpreted h.h, interpreted as meaning h.h, which means heil hitler. yeah. and that was that sounds like i'm making it up. that was an actual canadian actual thing that a canadian politician said, not just some rando on twitter. that was an actual politician . now, look, actual politician. now, look, the thing about that is, people that to covid that was due to covid restrictions, but really was restrictions, but really it was about again, restrictions, but really it was about effect again, restrictions, but really it was about effect on again, restrictions, but really it was about effect on their again, like the effect on their livelihood. why is it that across whenever working across europe, whenever working people, normally working class people, normally working class people, , they're being people, protest, they're being dismissed as far right by a bunch posh bureaucrats?

bunch of posh bureaucrats? what's going on? bunch of posh bureaucrats? wh i:'s going on? bunch of posh bureaucrats? wh i:'s got0| on? bunch of posh bureaucrats? wh i:'s goto sound like a >> i hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist because it's >> i hate to sound like a conspof cy theorist because it's >> i hate to sound like a conspof a theorist because it's >> i hate to sound like a conspof a spoilert because it's >> i hate to sound like a conspof a spoiler alert,use it's >> i hate to sound like a conspof a spoiler alert, but it's more of a spoiler alert, but we've got a globalist establishment across the west that wants to control us and wants to subject us to all these rules. so net zero is one of them. and so cutting emissions for net zero is incredibly important to them. so they want to farms . uh, important to them. so they want to farms. uh, so we're to cut back farms. uh, so we're seeing this in the netherlands and various places. and, and it's bizarre because the eu was set up, one of the main reasons was to provide , uh, an abundance was to provide, uh, an abundance of know , the post—war of food, you know, the post—war we realised we needed to have access food . uh, but this is access to food. uh, but this is really about control and really sort of about control and also about moving these farms from being family owned to being corporate because the corporate owned, because the corporations are funding and driving of this, a lot of driving a lot of this, a lot of the politics behind this . the politics behind this. >> though, >> isn't it strange, though, that officials don't that elected officials don't side people? i mean, side with the people? i mean, this i mean, to play this is i mean, but just to play devil's a moment this is i mean, but just to play deviwhen, a moment this is i mean, but just to play deviwhen, uh,| moment this is i mean, but just to play deviwhen, uh,| mo know, and when, when, uh, you know, the do rebel when the the people do rebel when the people to cast their people decide to cast their votes for another party like the afd for example, who are, you know, they're castigated as

this, this evil, know, they're castigated as this, this evil , far right party. >> they're pulling at 25. and the german system that's way higher than other other parties . higher than other other parties. and so they're looking to ban the afd. they're looking to ban the afd. they're looking to ban the most popular political party in don't think that in germany. i don't think that banning parties has banning political parties has a terrible precedent germany. terrible precedent in germany. >> i think that's >> i think i think that's absolutely . but there is an absolutely fine. but there is an issue, isn't there? there are some between some links between certain members the afd with the far members of the afd with the far right. that's an right. that's not that's an absolute not the absolute truth. is it not the case just to play devil's advocate sometimes the case just to play devil's adv right�* sometimes the case just to play devil's advright�* attach sometimes the case just to play devil's advright�* attach themselvesthe far right do attach themselves to these populist movements? does ? does that not happen? >> well, i this a lot. you >> well, i hear this a lot. you know, saying that, uh, know, people saying that, uh, you as you know, using populist as a, as if it's, know, as a slur, as if it's, you know, how awful, gauche, how how awful, how gauche, appealing politician would appealing politician would appeal want . appealing politician would appeal want. but appeal to what people want. but also, you know, never met also, you know, i've never met anybody who's, uh, you know, on the, on the far left or the far right, who is just right, who actually is just holding in a populist holding a position in a populist position to appeal to people and get votes. they always believe in country, they're in their country, think they're doing thing for their doing the right thing for their country in that country and believe in that thing think it's country and believe in that thinright think it's country and believe in that thin right thing think it's country and believe in that thinright thing do hink it's country and believe in that thinright thing do . nk it's country and believe in that thinright thing do . and:'s

country and believe in that thinright thing do . and the the right thing to do. and the thing same the afd. the right thing to do. and the thingmaybe same the afd. the right thing to do. and the thingmaybe they've the afd. the right thing to do. and the thingmaybe they've gotthe afd. the right thing to do. and the thingmaybe they've got some d. the right thing to do. and the thingmaybe they've got some ideas and maybe they've got some ideas that should to, and that we should listen to, and maybe mainstream maybe the mainstream parties should those should take on some of those ideas. what sometimes should take on some of those ideas. is what sometimes should take on some of those ideas. is vwhen ometimes should take on some of those ideas. is vwhen certain es happens is that when certain people's legitimate concerns are ignored , far right groups and ignored, far right groups and groups i, you know, some groups that i, you know, some dodgy groups of latch on to dodgy groups sort of latch on to them they're the only them because they're the only ones who talk them. ones who will talk about them. and think helps anyone. >> a voice because they're not worried they're worried about because they're already the mainstream. they outside of the mainstream. they can we'll can just be like, yeah, we'll write no, write exactly for you. yeah. no, i can definitely see. i can definitely see that. >> think should >> do you think we should be supporting or supporting the farmers, or do you think that they. >> got to support >> i think you've got to support you've farmers. you've got to support farmers. are bedrock have it are the bedrock and they have it so know , so bad as well. you know, there's really high suicide rates within farmers like crazy working yeah yeah i working conditions. yeah yeah i didn't yeah. you didn't know that. yeah. you know, worked with all know, they had worked with all those animals. it's tough job. >> that's just your >> now that's just your particular jonathan. don't >> now that's just your particyour jonathan. don't >> now that's just your particyour problemsthan. don't >> now that's just your particyour problems onto don't >> now that's just your particyour problems onto the 't bring your problems onto the show. told you about this show. i've told you about this before. them well at home before. keep them well at home because they're very disturbing. we're on now we're going to move on now because we're actually out of time for this section. it's flown by. uh, but later on, i'm going to speaking to director going to be speaking to director travis about his important travis brown about his important new documentary , uncomfortable

new documentary, uncomfortable truths the reality of gender identity, ideology . please do identity, ideology. please do not go anywhere

>> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. welcome back to free speech nation with me . speech nation with me. >> andrew doyle travis browne is a writer, director and editor whose new documentary is called uncomfortable truth the reality of gender identity ideology. the series is designed to help people better understand what it describes as the trans movement , describes as the trans movement, and outlines what can be done to help people who may have been negatively impact by such an ideology. here's a little clip first. >> these people are pushing this right , and >> these people are pushing this right, and these >> these people are pushing this right , and these people are right, and these people are pushing against this. and calling us weirdos and freaks and everything that i had hoped that would never happen again. but now, because of this, those people have ammunition to again

call us freaks and weirdos and that we're doing this to children . we're literally giving children. we're literally giving them the ammunition to set us back in our rights and where we are always living a comfortable life. so we're my trans life. so we're all my trans friends now. we're teaching kids that they're not boys and girls . that they're not boys and girls. how do you think that's going to translate to the rest of the world? it's going to make people think we are insane and that we are in indoctrinating children into belief system that is not into a belief system that is not . real >> and the director of uncomfortable truths , travis uncomfortable truths, travis browne, joins me now . welcome to. >> i'm really grateful for you coming on. >> i think this is a very interesting topic. and the clip that featured buck that we just saw featured buck angel is that we just saw featured buck angel, is a trans man, in angel, who is a trans man, in other words, was born female, right? but lives as a man. um, it is very interesting to hear buck angel talking about how trans activism , um, has actually trans activism, um, has actually done more harm than good for trans people . that's something

trans people. that's something we often don't talk about. what's what's going on do what's what's going on there, do you yeah well, so buck >> totally. yeah well, so buck transitioned about 30 years ago. so buck was kind of almost like a guinea pig in this. he lived in california and i'd figured out what worked best for him. and and, you know, then we had this new kind of contingent of trans people or people that identify as trans come along with this ideology to, to suggest that you don't even need surgery anymore. you don't need to do any of these hormones or any of these treatments. you can just into this. and just identify into this. and they've just become very puritanical and cult like. and anyone who doesn't agree with them , you know, is a bigot. and them, you know, is a bigot. and you transition your you need to transition your children as they children as soon as they identify way. so identify this way. and so i think, buck is really think, you know, buck is really a advocate for not a passionate advocate for not transitioning and for transitioning children. and for just waiting and seeing, you know how somebody and know, how somebody develops and whether not, you know, this whether or not, you know, this is a good path for someone to go down. >> i mean, it's very interesting that you say that because, you know, lot trans know, there are a lot of trans people it people have made this point. it isn't through what

isn't easy going through what they've gone through. you know, that there are that they you know, there are a very minority of people that they you know, there are a very for minority of people that they you know, there are a very for whateverty of people that they you know, there are a very for whateverty of pe(have who, for whatever reason, have to present as the other sex, whether surgery whether that is through surgery or presentation or whatever. and they have this, this, this issue, problem . um, but you issue, this problem. um, but you have a lot of people now saying that of is necessary. that none of that is necessary. you declare you can just declare just self—identification. yeah, but i mean, would you have sympathy with those people who that with those people who feel that they . they have to present as. >> absolutely. i'm not sure >> oh, absolutely. i'm not sure i'm convinced of after i'm convinced of that. after speaking with therapists speaking with many therapists and doing all the interviews and the research i've done, i think it's possible that perhaps everyone could you know, alleviate their gender distress with the right treatment. i think that's certainly possible . think that's certainly possible. that's not that's something that's not discussed enough. however, discussed often enough. however, i . you know, i have no problem. you know, buck as an adult wants to do that. and is not influenced by this cultish ideology. it this cultish ideology. but it just this is best just feels like this is the best path for think people path for buck. i think people should do that, and should be free to do that, and we've lot of people sort should be free to do that, and wesuggest lot of people sort should be free to do that, and we suggest thatt of people sort should be free to do that, and we suggest that the people sort of suggest that the self—identification is all that's a this week self—identification is all that's a a this week self—identification is all that's a spanish this week self—identification is all that's a spanish thiwho ek about a spanish soldier who says he's going to make no effort to change appearance or change his appearance or anything, access to anything, but once access to women's changing rooms. right.

this be getting this is this seems to be getting this is something happening more something that's happening more and more, and i don't think this reflects is reflects well on on if there is a trans community on that community. >> , right. yeah. whether >> right, right. yeah. whether or there's a trans community or not there's a trans community is but certainly is debateable, but certainly onune is debateable, but certainly online certain online and in certain contingents especially in the contingents of especially in the united states, like in portland, where to live there, where i used to live there, there are , you know, there's there are, you know, there's what trans depher , what they call trans depher, which trans mixed which is antifa and trans mixed together . together. >> should antifa is >> we should say that antifa is a the a group. there based on the phrase and the way phrase anti—fascism and the way that prove their that they prove their anti—fascism is to go around beating don't beating up people who don't agree beating up people who don't angorrect? very interesting. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> so antifa this is a trans. yeah >> yeah yeah yeah. >> yeah yeah yeah. >> andy noah's covered this quite, quite a lot. but no it's clearly not doing. the people who are distressed about their gender these people gender any good for these people to pushing on kids to be pushing this on kids pushing this on ultimately parents suffer a lot from this as well because , you know, as as well because, you know, as your last week was talking your guest last week was talking aboutin your guest last week was talking about in scotland, they're going to you know, to criminalise not you know, affirming your child, which is this where things go a bit far? >> because when children

>> because i think when children are involved, people are going to more . they're not to say, no more. they're not going right ? going to stand for that right? >> yeah. >> e- em— >> i mean, you'd hope so. certainly a people are certainly a lot of people are waking up for lack of waking up for the lack of a better phrase to this problem, especially younger and especially because younger and younger kids are being pushed into using puberty blockers and taking hormones and taking cross—sex hormones and even now we have even surgeries. and now we have data komodo did data on this. komodo health did a study on insurance claims , and a study on insurance claims, and it shows the numbers in the united . how many kids united states. how many kids are now assigned this this, now being assigned this this, you dis order gender, you know, dis order gender, gender dysphoria as well as all these kids, little children below 18 that are getting double mastectomies that are taking cross—sex hormones are cross—sex hormones that are being sterilised for life. so we have the numbers this, but have the numbers on this, but unfortunately a lot of people will still double down, especially if it's parent who especially if it's a parent who believes they believes in the ideology. they think, kid is trans. think, oh, my kid is trans. therefore i mean, those people are the most are the craziest activists. do you think that a lot of this is to with lot of this is to do with the way are informed this stuff? >> mean , in this country with >> i mean, in this country with the video where the bbc, put out a video where someone saying there someone was saying that there are 100 genders and they

are over 100 genders and they were saying two children to were saying this two children to a children that's a group of children that's coming right ? a group of children that's coming right? yeah. so, broadcaster, right? yeah. so, you know, why can't children be taught that? no human being has ever changed sex? nobody is born in the wrong body, but that a very small minority of people do suffer a thing that we suffer from a thing that we call gender , because is gender dysphoria, because is that extent to blame for that to some extent to blame for the contagion the social contagion we're seeing ? seeing? >> absolutely. number >> absolutely. there's a number of . and tiktok and of factors. and tiktok and youtube is contributing to it as well. but in the united states, it's also though the case that kids are being taught , you know, kids are being taught, you know, there expansive there are these gender expansive lesson they lesson plans for kids. they don't about this don't need to learn about this at never talked about at all. i never talked about genden at all. i never talked about gender, thought it i gender, thought about it when i was . most people i was growing up. most people i mean, don't think the average was growing up. most people i me.needs)n't think the average was growing up. most people i me.needs tot think the average was growing up. most people i me.needs to learn( the average was growing up. most people i me.needs to learn about|verage was growing up. most people i me.needs to learn about thisge was growing up. most people i me.needs to learn about this at kid needs to learn about this at all. do learn about it, all. if they do learn about it, they should have a balanced viewpoint say, know, viewpoint and say, you know, the parents should inform them that this that's sort of this is something that's sort of on so they kind on the horizon so they can kind of for it. but most kids of prepare for it. but most kids , know, of this. , as we know, grow out of this. and it's what do you make of this? >> i mean, found it would >> i mean, i've found it would seem that a lot of the research is that animosity

is suggesting that animosity towards the gay community is on the rise as a result of this nofion the rise as a result of this notion that there an lgbtqia notion that there is an lgbtqia plus community that all of plus community and that all of them are trying to effectively indoctrinate children into this strange new religion. >> yeah, that acronym now includes numbers. it's ever expanding to us as well, right? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> yeah, there's gays against groomers who are constantly see, it's a group, you know, a group of gays and lesbians that are pushing back against this because don't want children because they don't want children to be, know, groomed . and so to be, you know, groomed. and so there are some people that are pushing back against that. but, yeah , there's this almost joke yeah, there's this almost joke about trans being the gateway that apparently told to that was apparently told to tavistock. marcus tavistock. i interviewed marcus and evans, blew the and sue evans, who blew the whistle on tavistock and it's just it's devastating to think that, you know, these, these poor young kids who are likely to going to turn out to be gay are getting these, you know, surgeries and these hormones and these things that will really ruin their lives. >> feels very >> it just feels very regressive, doesn't it? >> so you mentioned regressive, doesn't it? >> spoke so you mentioned regressive, doesn't it? >> spoke to so you mentioned regressive, doesn't it? >> spoke to a so you mentioned regressive, doesn't it? >> spoke to a couple mentioned regressive, doesn't it?

>> spoke to a couple metheined you spoke to a couple of the whistleblowers you spoke to a couple of the whistlebl> else is featuring >> yeah. who else is featuring in that you've made ? in the film that you've made? >> so yeah, in addition to buck angel >> so yeah, in addition to buck angel, joyce angel, i interviewed helen joyce . she's an author of the book trans when ideology meets reality. fantastic . she reality. she was fantastic. she ianed reality. she was fantastic. she invited me to a conference on gender and ireland. and so got gender and ireland. and so i got to interview stella o'malley, the founder of gen spect. sasha ayad , who's the therapist . i've ayad, who's the therapist. i've done 20 plus interviews and they're all just amazing people. >> and have you been able to talk to any trans people? >> you know, i've tried. >> a few you know, i've tried. i've also tried to reach to >> a few you know, i've tried. i've peopleied to reach to >> a few you know, i've tried. i've people who3 reach to >> a few you know, i've tried. i've people who are ach to >> a few you know, i've tried. i've people who are pro to >> a few you know, i've tried. i've people who are pro gender the people who are pro gender affirming care, in other words, that know, affirm a that want to you know, affirm a child's gender. um, at the first sign, however, most . of those sign, however, most. of those people don't want to talk to me. they don't want to talk and put their views there, which their own views out there, which i unfortunate i find really unfortunate because you think that they would promote what would want to promote what they're doing, but they don't even don't want to even they don't even want to talk to me. >> this is problem >> well, this is the problem i faced show. always faced on this show. i've always ianed invited people of that kind of that to that belief, because i want to hear they've to hear what they've got to say. totally. and but, but activists

hear what they've got to say. totalas and but, but activists hear what they've got to say. total as stonewall�*ut activists hear what they've got to say. total as stonewall havetivists hear what they've got to say. total as stonewall have always hear what they've got to say. total we stonewall have always hear what they've got to say. total we stonev have ave always hear what they've got to say. total we stonev have av debate s said, we won't have a debate on this. either this. you either. you either agree going to talk agree or we're not going to talk to not going to you. well, you're not going to you. well, you're not going to anyone, you? to persuade anyone, are you? right? finally travis, could you tell people where people can see uncomfortable ? your documentary. >> yeah, totally. so i have a locals and you can sign up . it's locals and you can sign up. it's travis brownite locals.com . the travis brownite locals.com. the first episode is on on first episode is out on on there. and then i have youtube, which i out a lot of stuff which i put out a lot of stuff on youtube, which is become on youtube, which is at become the signal. the signal at become the signal. >> . travis browne, >> fantastic. travis browne, thank thank thank you for joining us. thank you . and coming up next on free you. and coming up next on free speech nation, jonathan kogan and leo kearse will be back and we'll be tackling some more questions lovely questions from this lovely studio audience. please do not go anywhere .

>> you're listening to news. radio on mark dolan tonight, in my big opinion. a top cellist says rule britannia should be axed from last night of the proms when did it become a bad thing to love your country ? in

thing to love your country? in my take ten, threatening my take at ten, threatening attacks on the bbc's biggest star are a disgrace. but be clear, gary lineker is no victim and as he stands down as leader of ukip , neil hamilton reflects of ukip, neil hamilton reflects on 60 years in politics and his hopes for the future of british conservatism. we're live at nine. >> welcome back to free speech nation. let's get some more questions from this audience. so our first question comes from angelica . where's angela? hi, angelica. where's angela? hi, angelica. where's angela? hi, angelica . angelica. >> hi. uh, jc rowling is a known transphobe . transphobe. >> blimey, that's a wasps nest. well, this is a twitter account called discussing film . and they called discussing film. and they issued a tweet basically saying that jk rowling was a transfer . that jk rowling was a transfer. but i think we've got the image of the tweet this is what it says. known jk says. known transphobe jk rowling to be an rowling is now reported to be an active producer on the active executive producer on the harry potter series, where she

will be involved in the show's decision making. forbid, decision making. god forbid, given that she wrote the books , given that she wrote the books, she might have the right to be involved somehow. now i'm fascinated by this because that's outright libel . it's not that's outright libel. it's not true, leo. it's false. she's never said anything transphobic. whenever you get into arguments on twitter with people about this, i always say, look, just quote, transphobic quote, quote, the transphobic thing, and never thing, she said. and they never can. oh , can. so rather than saying, oh, well, not well, maybe she's not transphobic, doubled down transphobic, they doubled down and but we know what's and they say, but we know what's going now. going on in her mind now. i would this tested in would love to see this tested in court because what court if she sues because what are they going to do? >> yeah, exactly. i mean, it might be difficult. difficult because is in another because this blog is in another country. it's in country. i believe it's in america. but know, jk america. but you know, jk rowling's got the means to sort of deal with that. but of to, to deal with that. but yes, it's defamatory . it's been yes, it's defamatory. it's been seen was just seen by jonathan was just telling seen by 26 telling me it's been seen by 26 million that's lot . million people. so that's a lot. that's lot people that's that's a lot of people who seen this who have seen this false statement. >> understanding of >> my understanding of defamation that the more defamation law is that the more people see it, the more liable you are. and this account has 1.3, 1.3 you are. and this account has 1.3,1.3 million you are. and this account has 1.3, 1.3 million followers. so

she should sue, right? i think so, i think it'd be pretty funny . i mean, the thing about this is, i mean, people often say, well, if you're for free speech, then you shouldn't be for libel laws. disagree with laws. i actually disagree with that people say that because when people say they're free speech, they're they're for free speech, they're not doesn't that not free. that doesn't mean that we be we agree that you should be able to someone damage to lie about someone to damage and reputation and destroy their reputation and career. i think that's a different it's like, >> yeah, yeah, it's like, i believe you should be believe that you should be allowed that allowed to eat meat, but that doesn't right allowed to eat meat, but that do eatt right allowed to eat meat, but that do eat somebody's right allowed to eat meat, but that do eat somebody's cat. right to eat somebody's cat. >> yeah. that's right. to eat somebody's cat. >> yeah. that's right . you you >> yeah. that's right. you you definitely yeah. don't definitely don't. yeah. so don't don't do that, leo. >> jk rowling might just be grateful for for the the advertising. i mean the advertising. this is i mean the same thing with our computer game and it way more copies. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> and it has to be said her books are selling ever books are selling more than ever before. know, before. so you know you know, keep activists. keep on going activists. you're just the just shooting yourself in the foot. let's move on to a question steve, where question from steve, where steve. hi, steve. hi. what's your question? >> should channel migrants have the right to work? >> this was a big story >> yeah. this was a big story this is a new home this week. this is a new home office scheme grants office scheme that grants channel migrants right channel migrants the right to work in sectors care, work in sectors such as care, construction , agriculture and construction, agriculture and apparently nearly 16,000 asylum

seekers have been allowed to work in the year. lots people work in the year. lots of people are this . i saw are upset about this. i saw camilla to grant camilla tominey talking to grant shapps this earlier. shapps about this earlier. he wouldn't really answer the question . ian, because isn't the question. ian, because isn't the issue if they're issue here that if they're trying to have this rwanda scheme deterrent? but scheme as a deterrent? yeah, but then they're saying, but, but we'll everyone jobs. the we'll give everyone jobs. the deterrent undervalued, isn't it. >> well, you could say that. but then could also say, you >> well, you could say that. but then by could also say, you >> well, you could say that. but then by puttinglso say, you >> well, you could say that. but then by putting these 1, you >> well, you could say that. but then by putting these people in know, by putting these people in care and them white care homes and making them white people's , that's people's bums, that's an additional . but no, it additional deterrent. but no, it does sort of expose the lie that you know, the government's like, oh, we want to we want to stop the when oh, we want to we want to stop th

non—binary. um, and one particular, um, man , james s, particular, um, man, james s, who's been on this show before . who's been on this show before. uh, his cat, it was asked about this, and i've actually got him on the line. i think james s are you there ? you there? >> hi, andrew. yes, i am . >> hi, andrew. yes, i am. >> hi, andrew. yes, i am. >> hi, james. now, do you have your non binary cat with you tonight ? tonight? >> i do andrew and in fact he was so excited to be on your show that he's promptly fallen asleep to me . oh no. asleep next to me. oh no. >> well i think wake him up i think. is . leo, the think. oh there he is. leo, the non—binary cat. how are you, leo? oh he's not he's not having it. oh sorry. they me sorry them. sure. whatever yeah. um. james. so what can you just tell us briefly what happened here? >> yeah. so look , i've, i mean, >> yeah. so look, i've, i mean, i've only had leo about ten days, but everyone was messaging me, telling know how me, telling me, you know how beautiful is, beautiful he is because he is, um. and so people said might beautiful he is because he is, umaand so people said might beautiful he is because he is, uma bit so people said might beautiful he is because he is, uma bit of» people said might beautiful he is because he is, uma bit of catople said might beautiful he is because he is, uma bit of cat advertising might beautiful he is because he is, uma bit of cat advertising ,might beautiful he is because he is, uma bit of cat advertising , aight do a bit of cat advertising, a bit of cat modelling. um, so i was signing him up to this website, the main website, kind of one of the main agencies , and i was agencies in the uk, and i was just filling through the form,

putting his age and then i came colour, his age and then i came across a tick box for gender and i had a double take because it wasn't my gender they were asking, it was the cat's gender and there an for and there was an option for non—binary or gender neutral. >> fair , james, >> now, to be fair, james, i think the agency has said that it was a mistake and they meant to but we to just ask the owners, but we have seen this kind of thing. i mean, , the animal rights mean, peter, the animal rights activist out a tweet, activist group, put out a tweet, i yean activist group, put out a tweet, i year, maybe the i think last year, or maybe the year before talking about how we shouldn't misgender pigeons or we shouldn't assume the gender of or other animals. of pigeons or other animals. indeed. i mean, is this just the logical end point of this kind of ideology ? of ideology? >> well , you know, everyone >> well, you know, everyone said, oh, it's so ridiculous . of said, oh, it's so ridiculous. of course it must be a typo. but as you say , it the logical you say, it is the logical endpoint. got endpoint. i mean, we've got we've got students in we've got young students in schools identifying cats. schools identifying as cats. okay um, and then, you know, similarly, we've got parents deciding to raise their babies gender neutral. um, we've got parents of young toddlers coming out and saying that they are trans simply because of some

perceived behaviour on the part of the parents. you know, these those babies , those toddlers those babies, those toddlers don't have the capacity to think about things or vocalise about these things or vocalise them. the parents are essentially imposing this idea of gender identity upon them. so if babies, why not cats? >> why not? indeed well, thank you for joining >> why not? indeed well, thank you forjoining us and best of luck to leo in their journey, uh, or whatever . thank you uh, or whatever. thank you james. really appreciate it . james. really appreciate it. >> he just whispered to me, andrew there, he actually says he's come out officially as gender critical tonight. what? >> has god. god bless. yeah. >> leo has god. god bless. yeah. oh, god bless them . okay. thanks oh, god bless them. okay. thanks very much. any final thoughts on that, leo? yeah. >> well, i mean, you see, like, you know, parents with trans kids and, you know , the ideas kids and, you know, the ideas come from the parent. it's the same with with pets, you know , i same with with pets, you know, i mean, the cat kind of exists mean, if the cat kind of exists between not female between not male, not female kind of exist in two states, was that a schrodinger cat? that like a schrodinger cat? >> very good, very good. jonathan. we jonathan. you see, that's why we have smart for have him for the smart that for seven have him for the smart that for sevwell , look, next this evening >> well, look, next this evening we've got doctor jan mcvarish from speech union.

from the free speech union. >> going to be here >> she's going to be here to tell the of free tell us about the state of free speech and speech in northern ireland, and also event in also an upcoming event in belfast. please don't go anywhere

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation . so, uh, free speech in nation. so, uh, free speech in northern ireland is currently being put to the test in two important cases . in one of them, important cases. in one of them, a group of people at a bar in belfast were service, belfast were denied service, apparently they'd apparently because they'd attended speak event attended a let women speak event that another , sarah that day. and in another, sarah morrison says she was discriminated against by her employer. the belfast film festival , her because festival, in her case because she let women speak she spoke at the let women speak gathering. here i am. joined gathering. so here i am. joined tonight to discuss this jan tonight to discuss this by jan mcvarish. the education and events director the free events director of the free speech . now, jan . we've speech union. now, jan. we've talked a lot about the case of free speech in the uk on this program . in northern ireland program. in northern ireland there many, many problems,

program. in northern ireland therfirst, many, many problems, program. in northern ireland therfirst, manjtalkany problems, program. in northern ireland therfirst, manjtalk about»blems, program. in northern ireland therfirst, manjtalk about this ns, but first, let's talk about this event programming belfast. >> so our members in. >> yes. so our members in. northern ireland asked us to go over there. we have we hold events the country , events all around the country, but we haven't northern but we haven't been to northern ireland . so we thought in ireland so far. so we thought in 2024 we'd off by going to 2024 we'd kick off by going to belfast and in superb belfast and we're in a superb location , the titanic hotel, location, the titanic hotel, next friday evening. we've got over 150 people booked in now, which is that's one of our biggest events regionally, which i think is an indication of the problem that people see occurring when it comes to their free speech. >> but there are still >> yes, but there are still places available. if people absolutely. >> we've plenty of space and >> we've got plenty of space and would people came along. >> so why is it in northern ireland a ireland that there is a particular perceived ireland that there is a particulawith perceived ireland that there is a particulawith speech:eived ireland that there is a particulawith speech:eivthe problem with free speech at the moment? well i think that the big issue , which seems have big issue, which seems to have alerted lots of people to the problem , is the trans issue, problem, is the trans issue, which has been described as the canary in the coal mine. >> i was to talking stella o'malley yesterday. she's one of >> i was to talking stella o'n speakers terday. she's one of >> i was to talking stella o'nspeakers atday. she's one of >> i was to talking stella o'n speakers at the she's one of >> i was to talking stella o'n speakers at the event one of >> i was to talking stella o'n speakers at the event . ne of >> i was to talking stella o'n speakers at the event . thef our speakers at the event. the psychotherapist from southern ireland , and she describes the ireland, and she describes the trans issue as as the canary in

the coal because it's the the coal mine because it's the one that's kind of changed all the rules on public discourse. and you you and those two cases that you you alluded beginning , alluded to at the beginning, they about which . women, not they are about which. women, not just women, but people who want to have very sensible conversations about gender identity and the implications of the adoption of that idea. yes. um the implications for women's spaces , for prisons, for rape spaces, for prisons, for rape crisis centres, all of those things that we hear about lot . things that we hear about a lot. but practice the but in practice and on the ground , the women's ability to but in practice and on the grourthosee women's ability to but in practice and on the grourthose conversations lity to but in practice and on the grourthose conversations isy to have those conversations is continually shut down. so the example you gave, first of all, of the pub where people who'd been to the rally, um, this is the let women. yeah, it's posey parker went to belfast last yeanl parker went to belfast last year, i think just after she'd been to new zealand, where she was and the was attacked. um, and the a bunch women and others were bunch of women and others were in a pub in central belfast, and some of them were wearing, uh, woman, adult human, female t shirts, a t shirt. i've got one. lots of people wear them. what's the dictionary definition? it's not dictionary definition .

not a dictionary definition. yes. was wearing yes. and one man was wearing a man. adult human male t shirt. and the women were refused service on the basis of those t shirts , which is really shirts, which is really extraordinary because it's sort of echoes those rules that of echoes of those rules that would apply to football fans when they post—match be when they might post—match be wearing sectarian t shirts. >> i mean, that is absolutely astonishing, isn't it? to be refused service the of refused service on the basis of a protected belief , one a legally protected belief, one that yes exactly. >> so there are there's a group of 23 individuals who have come together to bring a legal case against the pub. >> well, we might be able to talk to one of the lawyers involved with that, simon chambers. i think we have him on the you there, simon? >> evening, andre. hello >> evening, andre. hello >> hello. so you're involved in this in this particular case, can you just talk through can you just talk us through exactly happening exactly what's happening with this ? this? >> well, as jan said, they both the incident arose out of. they were let women speak event in belfast after the event, which was well policed. so everybody got a chance to speak at the event despite the

counter—protesters making as much noise as possible. but. they were kept apart. everybody then decided, well, what they usually is go for a drink. it usually do is go for a drink. it was a sunday afternoon. it was a nice day, so they picked a nice city centre bar, well known, uh, robinson's belfast and robinson's bar in belfast and spent maybe 90 having spent maybe 90 minutes having a couple drinks , having lunch, couple of drinks, having lunch, just having a chat and getting on and catching up with a lot of people other. people who knew each other. i think twitter was where x as it is now, was, uh, ablaze with uh, the news of this rally going on and it got it got to the bar staff and who were generally young bar staff, and they decided to stop serving drink to the to the members of the group. they told various members differing reasons, such as you , differing reasons, such as you, i believe we're having some technical difficulties there with simon. >> simon, hear me ? >> simon, can you hear me? i think . sorry. go on. think you're back. sorry. go on. you were saying that the bar staff came up with various reasons why wouldn't serve reasons why they wouldn't serve them . them. >> yes. we have these video.

they were said we're a trans positive bar. we're not a transphobic bar and refused service . and then whenever one service. and then whenever one of the bar staff was explaining to another gentleman , an elderly to another gentleman, an elderly gentleman, was being gentleman, why he was being served, and gentleman . served, and the gentleman. i think we've lost simon again. >> there . i'm think we've lost simon again. >> there. i'm going to i'm going to come back to jan on that because he was about to mention a hear a gentleman leaned in to hear better weren't being better why they weren't being served and was actually physically at that physically assaulted at that point. what i've point. yes, that's what i've heard, the was heard, that the chap was headbutted . headbutted. >> and yes, in fact, now, now . >> and yes, in fact, now, now. >> so why is this going on? why is such animosity? why is is there such animosity? why is there a determination to there such a determination to silence people , to not serve silence people, to not serve them to treat them pariahs? >> well, think pariahs? >>well, think this >> well, i think in this particular issue too, the dial has shifted and there's been has has shifted and there's been a kind of very active attempts by activists to change what pubuc by activists to change what public discourse is and the rules of which it can, under which it can take place. and so the kind of slogan, no debate . the kind of slogan, no debate. our identity is not up for

debate. our existence is not up for debate, has had an incredible, chilling effect. yes. and an awful lot of people have now learnt that rule, whether they agree with whether or not they agree with it. and so therefore those people who break that rule are then become as extremists then become cast as extremists and are seen as people. well, why would you why would you do such a thing? why would you cause such offence by wearing such shirt or whatever? or. such a t shirt or whatever? or. yes, and one of other guests yes, and one of the other guests you've at the event yes, and one of the other guests yo david at the event yes, and one of the other guests yo david quinn, at the event is david quinn, who's a journalist from dublin, he's is david quinn, who's a journ.ont from dublin, he's is david quinn, who's a journ.on thism dublin, he's is david quinn, who's a journ.on this show3lin, he's is david quinn, who's a journ.on this show3lirtalk he's is david quinn, who's a journ.on this show3lirtalk about is david quinn, who's a jourproblemsshow3lirtalk about is david quinn, who's a jourproblemssthouthern about the problems in southern ireland as be a broader >> there seems to be a broader problem introducing hate problem there. introducing hate speech the speech legislation where the kinds of you're kinds of people you're describing, people who want to make call make these, what you'd call gender statements , this gender critical statements, this law weaponized against law could be weaponized against them, too, couldn't it? >> we undertook, um, a, >> yes. and we undertook, um, a, a survey back in 2022 relating to the hate crime legislation that's being proposed in the north. and we found that 81% of people felt that their freedom of expression was was less free than it had been ten years ago. and over half of the people that we surveyed thought that they

themselves may well fall, subject and fall foul of hate crime legislation as it was being proposed by the department of justice. so that was something that was really very important to highlight. and we'll discussing that at much we'll be discussing that at much greater length on friday. >> fantastic. >> fantastic. >> and the free >> and of course, the free speech many >> and of course, the free speech who many >> and of course, the free speech who who many >> and of course, the free speech who who have many >> and of course, the free speech who who have gone many >> and of course, the free speech who who have gone through women who who have gone through this problem of people trying to silence them for these perfectly legitimate views, haven't you? >> it's 39% of our >> absolutely. it's 39% of our cases relate gender cases now relate to gender identity . identity. >> yeah. absolutely. >> yeah. absolutely. >> incredible. so finally, >> incredible. so just finally, before jan, um, there before we finish jan, um, there are some tickets available. 150 already there's already gone, so there's not many but can people already gone, so there's not m.belfast but can people already gone, so there's not m.belfast , but can people already gone, so there's not m.belfast , ifut can people already gone, so there's not m.belfast , if they're can people already gone, so there's not m.belfast , if they're there, )eople in belfast, if they're there, how can they find out more? and come along? >> yeah. long you can get >> yeah. as long as you can get to friday evening >> yeah. as long as you can get to go friday evening >> yeah. as long as you can get to go to friday evening >> yeah. as long as you can get to go to go zriday evening >> yeah. as long as you can get to go to go zrida search ng fsu then go to go and search for fsu belfast speakeasy and the first thing that should come up will be the ticket page for the event and just who the speakers on and just who are the speakers on on event? uh, david quinn, on the event? uh, david quinn, as journalists, as you mentioned, journalists, uh o'malley, uh, stella o'malley, psychotherapist , jeffrey psychotherapist, jeffrey dudgeon, fascinating , uh, dudgeon, fascinating, uh, campaigner for gay rights and unionist politician in in belfast , ella whelan from the

belfast, ella whelan from the battle of ideas festival who are partnering with us on the event and young, my boss and and toby young, my boss and general of the free general secretary of the free speech union. >> it sounds absolutely >> well, it sounds absolutely fantastic . >> well, it sounds absolutely fantastic. i'm >> well, it sounds absolutely fantastic . i'm sorry >> well, it sounds absolutely fantastic. i'm sorry i can't be there, but i hope people come there, but i hope people do come along thanks along and support you. thanks jan thanks . and thanks jan mcvarish thanks. and thanks also to simon chambers. of course. unfortunately we had a few difficult technical difficulties so we couldn't go back to him. but thank you very much, simon, for joining back to him. but thank you very much, simon, forjoining us. there is plenty more to come on free speech nation tonight , free speech nation tonight, including an eu crackdown on hate crime, an australian academic who says he was sacked over a tweet. and of course , over a tweet. and of course, some more questions from this absolutely fantastic studio audience. so please do not go anywhere . a brighter outlook anywhere. a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news.

weather on. gb news. >> good evening. welcome . to >> good evening. welcome. to your latest gb news weather. i'm ellie glaisyer storm isha will bnng ellie glaisyer storm isha will bring some very heavy rain . and bring some very heavy rain. and some strong winds across the uk overnight tonight and into monday as it pushes its monday morning as it pushes its way north and eastwards across western this western parts of scotland. this evening , bringing you very evening, bringing you some very heavy particularly to evening, bringing you some very heavy western rticularly to evening, bringing you some very heavy western rticuleof' to evening, bringing you some very heavy western rticuleof the evening, bringing you some very heavywestern rticuleof the uk . those western parts of the uk. that continue to push that rain will continue to push its north and eastwards its way north and eastwards through and through the evening and overnight , it's through overnight, and it's through the early morning early hours of monday morning that to that those winds really start to pick . gusts of 60 to 75 miles pick up. gusts of 60 to 75 miles an hour across those western coasts, perhaps as high as 90 across of scotland. and it across parts of scotland. and it will mild night as will be a very mild night as well, compared well, particularly compared to what recently maybe well, particularly compared to w or: recently maybe well, particularly compared to w or: degrees recently maybe well, particularly compared to w or: degrees across1tly maybe well, particularly compared to wor: degrees across the maybe well, particularly compared to wor: degrees across the south e 8 or 9 degrees across the south east, a very windy start to the day on monday , though those day on monday, though those winds will ease a touch through the early hours the morning. the early hours of the morning. but still remaining very blustery the uk into blustery across the uk into monday afternoon . showers quite monday afternoon. showers quite widely in from the west widely pushing in from the west into monday afternoon as well , into monday afternoon as well, perhaps wintry perhaps turning wintry across the high ground of

the very high ground of scotland. will be some scotland. there will be some sunshine very far sunshine across the very far southeast . temperatures here, southeast. temperatures here, maybe degrees, and maybe 10 or 11 degrees, and elsewhere around the mid single figures . tuesday will start figures. tuesday will start a little bit drier for some, particularly along eastern parts of doesn't of england, but that doesn't last long. this next system last very long. this next system pushing in from the west as we go through tuesday afternoon, bringing heavy bringing some further heavy rain, particularly western bringing some further heavy rain, jofticularly western bringing some further heavy rain, jof scotland, western bringing some further heavy rain, jof scotland, north—west parts of scotland, north—west england and into wales as well, and some strong winds associated with that. something a little dner with that. something a little drier wednesday, further drier on wednesday, but further wet and windy weather later in the week. >> warm feeling inside from >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boiler as sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> 2024 a battleground year. >> 2024 a battleground year. >> the year the nation decides as party's gear up their as the party's gear up their campaigns the next general campaigns for the next general election, who will be left standing when the british people make biggest make one of the biggest decisions their lives? decisions of their lives? >> who will rise and who will fall? >> let's find out together. >> let's find out together.

>> for every moment, the highs , >> for every moment, the highs, the lows, the twists and turns , the lows, the twists and turns, we'll be with you for every step of this journey. in 2024. g gb news is britain's election

channel. there's plenty . more still to there's plenty. more still to come on free speech nation this week, including a debate on donald trump's dominant win in iowa and more questions for myself, jonathan and leo from our lovely studio audience. >> but let's get a news update first tamzin . andrew thanks first from tamzin. andrew thanks very much and good evening from the gb newsroom. >> a 17 year old boy who was stabbed to death in birmingham city centre on saturday has been named as mohammed hassan ali west midlands police say officers were called to victoria square after the 17 year old was

found seriously injured. he was rushed to hospital but later died. anyone who may have taken pictures in the area around the river statue on saturday afternoon is being urged to contact police . the met office contact police. the met office says 90mph winds have hit parts of wales this evening as storm ayesha hits britain. forecasters say there's a danger to life in some areas, warning of falling trees, power cuts and possible flooding. a so—called tornado watch zone was issued for northern ireland as well as parts of scotland and northern england. speed restrictions are in place across network rail and scotrail expects all services to be suspended tomorrow morning . be suspended tomorrow morning. our south west england reporter , our south west england reporter, jeff moody, says conditions are expected to get worse throughout the . the evening. >> really beginning >> storms really beginning to take now. the wind is take effect now. the wind is really beginning to pick up. the rain too, and it's rain has arrived too, and it's going get a whole lot worse going to get a whole lot worse tonight. this is the ninth named

storm the season, and what storm of the season, and what makes this one unique is that it's going to affect the whole of the uk. the met office saying, make sure that everything in your garden is secure and fixed down. the risk from very , very from flying debris is very, very real indeed. avoid coastal paths and avoid rural paths to the best thing you can do is to stay indoors . indoors. >> no more flights coming into london's heathrow airport have been experience some shaky landings . the windy conditions landings. the windy conditions are creating frightening conditions for passengers with several flights spotted looking unsteady as they descended into britain's main airport. some flights have now been cancelled . flights have now been cancelled. and a man and a woman have been found dead at a house near norwich. both died from stab wounds . we've learned this wounds. we've learned this evening comes as four people, evening it comes as four people, including two young children, were dead in costessey on were found dead in costessey on friday. post—mortem examinations for two young girls will be carried out on wednesday. norfolk police has referred

itself to the independent watchdog after failing to respond to a999 call from a home where the bodies were found . the where the bodies were found. the duchess of york has been diagnosed with skin cancer just months after being treated for breast cancer. the diagnosis comes after she had several moles removed with one of those identified as being cancerous. a spokesperson for sarah, duchess of york confirmed she's been diagnosed with malignant melanoma. she is said to be undergoing further investigations to ensure it's been caught in the early stages . been caught in the early stages. the duchess is said to be in good spirits, despite the fact another cancer diagnosis so soon after the last one has been distressing for this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car , on digital radio and on your smart speaker. just say play gb news. now it's back to andrew and free speech nation.

welcome back to free speech nation. >> so let's get some more questions from our lovely studio audience. our first question from norman where's norman? >> we are. >> here we are. >> hi, norman. >> hi, norman. >> hiya is trump too >> hiya. is donald trump too dangerous for tv ? dangerous for tv? >> okay. thank you. norman, um, this is a fascinating story because, uh, as we all know, donald trump romped to victory in the iowa caucuses this week. but on msnbc, when he took to the stage, uh, rachel maddow, who was reporting at the time on msnbc, said that they weren't going cut to president going to cut to president trump's speech. let's hear what she say . she had to say. >> there is a reason that we and other organisations have other news organisations have generally stopped an generally stopped giving an unfiltered platform to unfiltered live platform to remarks by former president trump. it is not out of spite . trump. it is not out of spite. it is not a decision that . we it is not a decision that. we relish. it is a decision that we regularly revisit it. um, and honestly , earnestly. it is not honestly, earnestly. it is not an easy decision . varne, but

an easy decision. varne, but there is a cost to us as a news organisation of knowingly broadcasting untrue things . that broadcasting untrue things. that is a fundamental truth of our business and who we are. and so his remarks tonight will not air here live. we will monitor them and let you know about any news that he makes. >> and i should say that in the past two minutes, some breaking news for you, according to bloomberg. rhonda santos is bloomberg. um, rhonda santos is on cusp dropping out and on the cusp of dropping out and endorsing in his race for endorsing trump in his race for the white house so that's big news there. very interesting. uh, leo, from rachel maddow . i uh, leo, from rachel maddow. i would have thought that the republican front runner for their presidential candidacy, i would that what would have thought that what he's newsworthy . he's got to say is newsworthy. yeah. what do you think? >> when trump says, look, the train steal the election from me, the establishment works against me. >> he's not a crazy conspiracy theorist. you can see it happening right in front of you here. denied a platform. here. he's denied a platform. he's voice on this, uh, he's denied a voice on this, uh, mainstream news, news show. >> i find it bizarre.

>> i find it bizarre. >> i find it bizarre. >> i mean, we're not talking about strange blogger or about some strange blogger or something where, you know, we're talking about the former president of the united states who running and who is running again and may very win . what are they very well win. what are they going to do if he he wins? going to do if he if he wins? are to are they just never going to mention what is going are they just never going to m> that's what they did last time. >> they they him off >> they they kicked him off twitter was when he was twitter when he was when he was still . still president. >> jonathan, >> insane. jonathan, any thoughts that? thoughts about that? >> of me is >> i mean, part of me is disappointed get disappointed they didn't get a trump puppet and recreate trump puppet and just recreate the okay. that have >> yeah, okay. that would have been had that advantage. have had that advantage. but come is not serious come on, this is not serious journalism , is it? journalism, is it? >> incredibly biased , >> it's so incredibly biased, biased and what's the worry that he's going to say something, uh, fake or fallacious? >> i love the idea that msnbc think that if they don't platform him, no one will know what . there isn't a what trump said. there isn't a thing the internet or thing called the internet or proper news channels that people can consult. >> you know, we're not doing it out of spite. >> yeah, i know, know, >> yeah, i know, i know, it's unbelievable for those who didn't did didn't see jonathan did a theatrical pantomime at theatrical pantomime wink at the audience were on audience there, but we were on an trump, so it was an image on trump, so it was wasted . wasted. >> um, about what do you

>> um, what about what do you think mean, like, >> um, what about what do you think on, mean, like, >> um, what about what do you think on, at mean, like, >> um, what about what do you think on, at this mean, like, >> um, what about what do you think on, at this pointean, like, >> um, what about what do you think on, at this point with ike, >> um, what about what do you think on, at this point with ron come on, at this point with ron desantis of the race desantis may be out of the race at this point. yeah. what do you think trump's chances are your money on? yeah. money on? yeah, yeah. >> money on? >> who is your money on? >> who is your money on? >> with trump >> i mean, the thing with trump is i'd say, is i mean, normally i'd say, yeah, got a really yeah, he's got he's got a really good chances. he didn't even win the time round. the iowa caucus last time round. and he still he still and you know he still he still won uh but but won the presidency. uh but but there's a lot of things against him. he is getting on just like biden. uh a of biden. uh he has a lot of lawsuits against him. and also, uh, you know, somebody could decide that it's for him to decide that it's time for him to commit a suicide. >> or he could be in >> well, or he could be in prison. yeah. mean , if these. prison. yeah. i mean, if these. although can run although apparently you can run from america. i didn't from prison in america. i didn't know from prison in america. i didn't knoyou also suicide >> you can also commit suicide in , uh, as our friend. in prison as, uh, as our friend. uh, i think i think your obsession is not obsession with suicide is not really helpful for a lot of people who are enemies. let's move on to jonathan here. >> um, it's another reason why hillary clinton going >> um, it's another reason why hiliright. nton going >> um, it's another reason why hiliright. nton not)ing >> um, it's another reason why hiliright. nton not talk about >> right. let's not talk about hillary do you think hillary. um, do you think i mean, come on, i would have thought that if ron desantis were run against biden, biden were to run against biden, biden would toast . let's be would be toast. let's be absolutely honest about this,

because absolutely honest about this, becalwho speak. yes. and there who can speak. yes. and one who can't. but what do you think about the idea that they're with trump, think about the idea that they is with trump, think about the idea that they is a with trump, think about the idea that they is a divisiveth trump, think about the idea that they is a divisive figure np, think about the idea that they actuallya divisive figure np, think about the idea that they actually surelyve figure np, think about the idea that they actually surely if figure np, that actually surely if the republicans had any sense, they'd go with someone like desantis? >> totally see your >> yeah, i can totally see your point think trump has point there. i think trump has so many devotees and it's such a sort of, uh, cult of character that i think there are people who are just dyed in the wool for trump, and they want to get these for trump, and they want to get the well, there there >> well, there are, but there are just are also people who just absolutely cannot stand him. and i thought sensible. absolutely cannot stand him. and i personally, sensible. absolutely cannot stand him. and i personally, more ble. well, personally, just more sensible approach would have been to go for desantis. but if he's out of the race then he's out race. out of the race. >> and both out of the race. >> and out of the race. >> democrats both and out of the race. >> democrats shouldh and out of the race. >> democrats shouldh picked the democrats should have picked somebody other than biden and kamala they're the most >> yeah, they're the most unpopular . >> yeah, they're the most unfdon't r . >> yeah, they're the most unfdon't r. like >> yeah, they're the most unfdon't r . like know, >> don't even like biden know, like there's a lot people who like there's a lot of people who like there's a lot of people who like don't like trump and well, don't you think jonathan? >> impression >> i mean, i get the impression that be that biden doesn't want to be running because running again. it's just because he the midterms, and he did well in the midterms, and now know now he feels like he has to know that doesn't that he's doing that. he doesn't know illegal. >> pure >> it's pure ego. and also people around still want people around him who still want to power. somebody people around him who still want to came power. somebody people around him who still want to came power.wouldn'tody people around him who still want to came power. wouldn't be! new came in, they wouldn't be part him. part of the team around him. so it's him who it's the people around him who are pushing. >> say i wouldn't vote are pushing. >> either say i wouldn't vote are pushing. >> either of say i wouldn't vote are pushing. >> either of them. wouldn't vote are pushing. >> either of them. i ouldn't vote are pushing. >> either of them. i wouldn't)te for either of them. i wouldn't vote for trump. i wouldn't vote

for think, that for biden. i just think, is that the do? the best that you can do? america yeah, really? you've just against each other. come on, perot. >> come on, perot. >>— >> come on, perot. >> put words into >> yeah. i don't put words into my . i don't who my mouth. i don't know who i would neither of would vote for, but neither of them. but then politically them. but then i'm politically homeless as well. so homeless in the uk as well. so anyway, move on to another anyway, let's move on to another question. from question. this one's from angela. where's angela? hi, angela. where's angela? hi, angela. why is a man running a rape crisis centre for women? this is a good question, angela. um this is the edinburgh rape crisis centre. it does feel incredible. and i think there's been a lot of talk about this this week. i should perhaps explain. there was a report this week women's rights group week by the women's rights group sex matters . uh, the report week by the women's rights group seaboutters . uh, the report week by the women's rights group seabout rape uh, the report week by the women's rights group seabout rape crisis the report week by the women's rights group se about rape crisis centres'eport week by the women's rights group se about rape crisis centres andt is about rape crisis centres and how they're being hampered in their gender identity their work by gender identity ideology. this report also highlights evidence that women are seek help are reluctant to seek help because they don't want to risk being counselled man in being counselled by a man in those circumstances . and there's those circumstances. and there's been by sex matters been a survey by sex matters that reveals that 84% of british people say that women who have been victims sexual been the victims of rape, sexual assault domestic violence assault or domestic violence should access to female should have access to female only services . that seems

only services. that seems perfectly reasonable to me now , perfectly reasonable to me now, this is a prominent example. this is the edinburgh centre. it's by riddell wadhwa , uh, it's run by riddell wadhwa, uh, who was born male. so this is a man running the rape crisis centre now on the guilty feminist feminist podcast, wadhwa said. and this is a direct one second. this is directly a quotation said sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well . and so, you people as well. and so, you know, it is not a discerning crime. but these spaces are also for you . but if you bring for you. but if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature , we discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. but please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices. so just think about that for a moment. the idea that a woman who has experienced sexual assault comes to this place expecting single sex service and is told you're a bigot and we need to challenge you. now, what we're also went on survivors on to say that survivors of rape and should work and sexual violence should work to, quote, reframe their trauma, adding , to, quote, reframe their trauma, adding, quote, you should. you also have to rethink your

relationship with prejudice . now relationship with prejudice. now this is coming to a head because this is coming to a head because this week there's an employment tribunal involving a former member staff at the edinburgh member of staff at the edinburgh rape centre . this is roz rape crisis centre. this is roz adams , a support counsellor who adams, a support counsellor who is claiming constructive dismissal. now she was accused of transphobia because she advised her colleagues that they ought to inform a victim of sexual that of sexual assault, that one of their workers was, quote, their advice workers was, quote, a birth that now a woman at birth that now identifies as non—binary . she identifies as non—binary. she now details from the tribunal are being live, tweeted every day at the moment from a twitter account called tribunal tweets. one witness has claimed that when wadhwa, who runs the centre , was asked what to do if staff weren't sure about the trans inclusive policies, wilder apparently replied fire them . apparently replied fire them. and as reported in the scotsman on the first day of the tribunal, quote , roz adams told tribunal, quote, roz adams told of a woman who was refused support from the centre because she asked if the service was women only. she explained that the woman in her 60s had wanted a female only group therapy. context. on being told that the

centre was trans inclusive, the woman asked is that women only and later received an email saying she was not suitable to use its service. in other words, people are being turned away for wanting women . single sex wanting women. single sex spaces, even after a sexual assault. so the scotsman also reported that the edinburgh centre refuses to refer women to bira's place . now this is the bira's place. now this is the female only sexual support service set up by the authorjk rowling a year ago, and even though they've closed the waiting list for the advocacy services, they're not referring people on to place. maybe people on to bira's place. maybe because they presume that it's transphobic to have women's only spaces. now, roz adams now works at place and has at bira's place and has testified that the edinburgh centre refer to centre will not refer victims to their services. i think this is a big story, leo. i also don't think it's unreasonable for women who've been through sexual assault, to assault, sexual assault to expect or request to not have expect or to request to not have men around . like, i think that's reasonable. >> i think these women have to understand that patriarchy understand that the patriarchy is back. you might have had , you

is back. you might have had, you know, decades of know, a brief few decades of equality and single—sex spaces and stuff like that. but now you're firmly in the handmaid's tale and you're going to have , tale and you're going to have, you know, these hulking big blokes with, uh, you know, hairy penises in your single—sex spaces. >> but surely, i mean, it sounds like the stuff of fiction, right? i mean, the fact that jk rowling had to set up bira's place to up because rowling had to set up bira's place was to up because rowling had to set up bira's place was no. up because there was no. >> well, she is a known transphobe well, that's what they say. >> transphobe exactly. >> known transphobe exactly. for protecting >> known transphobe exactly. for protec' is g >> known transphobe exactly. for protec'is absolutely incredible. to me is absolutely incredible. there were no, uh , single sex there were no, uh, single sex services scotland for rape services in scotland for rape victims, right? so, i mean , victims, right? so, i mean, look, i just don't i don't see why . why, for a start, i don't why. why, for a start, i don't see why a man got the job as head this centre. don't see head of this centre. i don't see why role that . why that wasn't a role that. look, you know, i'm not saying that discrimination is good. i would the would have thought in the case of crisis centre, of a rape crisis centre, actually, discrimination is necessary. >> but is that so? take, for example, roles of like example, the roles of like counsellor know, just counsellor or, you know, just working in the centre, presumably men can be equally as qualified, though, and i understand what you're saying,

but a woman's been subjected but if a woman's been subjected to then , you to sexual violence, then, you know, want be know, she might not want to be confronted with a man. >> i think that's the >> i think well, that's the point, it, man? point, isn't it, man? >> yeah, obviously. but like, if it's when you go it's a doctor, when, when you go see you can have see a doctor, you can have preferences. but male preferences. but you get male and right. and female doctors, right. >> can though um, >> you can though request, um, a doctor who is of your own sex, particularly if it's an intimate doctor who is of your own sex, parti of arly if it's an intimate doctor who is of your own sex, parti of treatment. an intimate doctor who is of your own sex, parti of treatment. however, e type of treatment. however, it's interesting you say because interesting you say that because some or activists some nhs activists or activists within now saying within the nhs are now saying you shouldn't be to do you shouldn't be able to do that and identifies and that if someone identifies as , that should be sufficient. >> i always prefer a female doctor. >> well that's you, jonathan. but come your but again, we come back to your particular , your particular issues, your particular issues, your particular problems . particular problems. >> the mansplaining story does kind think that the kind of make me think that the wrong won in the battle wrong side won in the battle with isis. i think, know , if with isis. i think, you know, if they to seize power across western europe, then, you know, at least we'd be able to resolve this stuff a bit more simply . this stuff a bit more simply. >> well, we know where we stood. >> well, we know where we stood. >> wouldn't people who >> we wouldn't have people who claim to be progressive, sort of undoing all basic civil undoing all of the basic civil rights experienced . rights that we've experienced. it's a interesting point. it's a really interesting point. you make, leo, about the patriarchy, just finding a new disguise . yeah, almost. it's

disguise. yeah, almost. it's like, oh, we've lost . so we'll like, oh, we've lost. so we'll have another way. have to find another way. >> time to be alive. have to find another way. >> if time to be alive. have to find another way. >> if you time to be alive. have to find another way. >> if you are time to be alive. have to find another way. >> if you are atime to be alive. have to find another way. >> if you are a misogynist,|live. have to find another way. >> if you are a misogynist, you know what i mean. you can become, you get get become, you know, you get get a job and then the job like this, and then the guardian readers, i'll cheer you on. you're so on. it's like, wow, you're so brave. progressive. on. it's like, wow, you're so bravcan progressive. on. it's like, wow, you're so bravcan jobrogressive. on. it's like, wow, you're so bravcan job asressive. on. it's like, wow, you're so bravcan job as assive. on. it's like, wow, you're so bravcan job as a asle. on. it's like, wow, you're so bravcan job as a as a. you can get a job as a as a female boxer and female female female boxer and female sports and like, push women out. >> women up and be >> you can beat women up and be cheered it. their bones. cheered for it. their bones. >> everyone's whoa, >> and everyone's like, whoa, you're so brave. you're so stunning. look at your big man smashing these the smashing these women in the face. you go girl. face. on you go girl. >> absolutely incredible >> it's absolutely incredible and kind of horrific , and kind of horrific, unfortunately. let's move on now to a question from shirley. where's shirley ? where's shirley? >> should we just abolish female changing rooms in the name of inclusive civility? >> very interesting . do you have >> very interesting. do you have a thought on that, shirley? >> uh, just keep females in female changing rooms. i think that seems very reasonable to me i >> -- >> um, so, km w >> um, so, shirley, i know that you're mentioning this because there was a story week there was a story this week that i earlier about i did mention earlier about the spanish in the spanish soldier soldier in the spanish soldier soldier in the spanish army basically has spanish army is basically has said he to female said he wants to use female changing rooms. i think we've said he wants to use female cha a|ing rooms. i think we've said he wants to use female cha a photooms. i think we've said he wants to use female cha a photo of s. i think we've said he wants to use female cha a photo of him.�*|ink we've said he wants to use female cha a photo of him. 1ink we ve said he wants to use female cha a photo of him. 1ink we just got a photo of him. can we just have a look at this? okay isn't

she thing is she beautiful? now, the thing is , he's actually said he's going. he's absolutely has no intention of differently or of presenting differently or having surgery or anything. not that that's point. but that that's the point. but that's the guy. he's i mean, bit. >> right. sure. sorry. you you think this is a troll? >> yeah . to say that i'm not >> yeah. to say that i'm not going to do any of the things. i'm just going to do it. he must be ad absurdum. i'm just going to do it. he must be testingrdum. i'm just going to do it. he must be testing then. i'm just going to do it. he must be testing the room mates . >> testing the room mates. >> testing the room mates. >> well, mean, because >> well, maybe. i mean, because we. we had in we. burt we had that case in canada teacher who wore canada of the teacher who wore those prosthetic breasts. those huge prosthetic breasts. massive, like ridiculous . it's massive, like ridiculous. it's obviously a fetish. um, and but then some people were saying, well, maybe he's testing the limits of the policy. turns out probably real, actually, which is real, which is. yeah. no, the breasts weren't real. the conceit was real. that he actually did because i think he was photographed in other areas wearing ridic , jealous wearing the same ridic, jealous breasts. yeah, a teacher breasts. yeah, i was a teacher and we were told quite explicitly, can't wear explicitly, you can't wear fetish gear the classroom. fetish gear in the classroom. nothing more than a b—cup. so some gutted by some people are very gutted by that. do you make of that. um, so what do you make of this, just i mean, this, though? just i mean, i know you've an issue

know you've got an issue politically people politically with people who don't politically with people who doryeah, well, that's the thing. >> yeah, well, that's the thing. >> yeah, well, that's the thing. >> problem, >> yeah, well, that's the thing. >think. problem, >> yeah, well, that's the thing. >think. and problem, >> yeah, well, that's the thing. >think. and is problem, >> yeah, well, that's the thing. >think. and is who's'oblem, >> yeah, well, that's the thing. >think. and is who's who's, i think. and this is who's who's getting affected as getting affected by it as well. like transgender women getting affected by it as well. like put transgender women getting affected by it as well. like put the transgender women getting affected by it as well. like put the effortgender women getting affected by it as well. like put the effort in1der women getting affected by it as well. like put the effort in and women getting affected by it as well. like put the effort in and looken who put the effort in and look like women, like, if blaire white went a women's white went into a women's changing nobody's going white went into a women's chilike,g nobody's going white went into a women's chilike, whoa, nobody's going white went into a women's chilike, whoa, where dy's going white went into a women's chilike, whoa, where dy'syou1g be like, whoa, where are you going looks a going? because it looks like a woman. you know? mean, woman. you know? i mean, but this look like. this doesn't look like. >> but surely like a woman. >> but surely like a woman. >> dundee, >> maybe. maybe in dundee, i don't know, but, you know, surely we have to have a hard and fast rule where it's biological sex, no matter what and fast rule where it's biollookl sex, no matter what and fast rule where it's biollook like.. no matter what you look like. >> have thought . no, i >> i would have thought. no, i know don't so. know you don't think so. you think whoever's hot think it should be whoever's hot enough. so by your standards, let's enough. so by your standards, let'that's ridiculous. >> that's ridiculous. >> that's ridiculous. >> there are single >> there are. there are single sex for people that sex cubicles for people in that position, trans position, you know, but trans people you know? but people find a way, you know? but it's we. i think it's not as though we. i think biological sex should be the determining factor, and i don't agree that. determining factor, and i don't agrbut. that. >> but. >> em- em" emu-— >> well, i don't think we should get female changing get rid of female changing rooms. this documentary rooms. i saw this documentary called chaps called porky's, where the chaps are looking through the wall. and, you know, we don't want to lose that heritage. >> oh, why do i invite him on? >> oh, why do i invite him on? >> okay , let's get a final >> okay, let's get a final question from daniel. daniel, where's. where are you? hi, daniel . hi.

where's. where are you? hi, dargoodhi. where's. where are you? hi, dargood evening. do >> good evening. gentlemen. do ragdoll make better husbands than ? than men? >> well, i hope you're not speaking from experience, daniel, but i hope so. yeah. this is a brazilian woman again. it sounds like i made this up. this brazilian woman is married to ragdoll . um, now she's now to a ragdoll. um, now she's now saying family is saying that family life is becoming because becoming complicated because she's . uh, now that she's had twins. uh, now that there's twins , um, and so there's the twins, um, and so there's the twins, um, and so the couple, the couple now live with their three ragdoll children . um, with their three ragdoll children. um, this is a with their three ragdoll children . um, this is a i with their three ragdoll children. um, this is a i mean, this this was in the tabloids this this was in the tabloids this week, but it's a joke, right? i mean, there's no because either that's serious mental illness or . because either that's serious mental illness or. she's just having a laugh. i would suggest she's having a laugh. right? >> so. yeah. of >> oh, you'd hope so. yeah. of course, old world, course, in this crazy old world, i'm know, i'm not sure. i don't know, i actually a girl who actually used to date a girl who was a ragdoll in bed. it was very boring. anyway i've heard of girls. of those ragdoll girls. >> they have other names. >> they have other names. >> yeah . oh, the blow up. >> yeah, yeah. oh, the blow up. >> yeah, yeah. oh, the blow up. >> no, didn't that . jonathan. >> what? on no. >> starfish. what? on no. >> starfish. what? on no. >> leo. >> i'm confused. leo. >> i'm confused. leo. >> leo. >> i'm confused. leo. >> let's move on you. >> i'm confused. leo. >> let's move on you. >> i'm confused. leo. >> i feel�*nove on you. >> i'm confused. leo. >> i feel thee on you. >> i'm confused. leo. >> i feel the same you. >> i'm confused. leo. >> i feel the same about you. >> i'm confused. leo. >> i fe. l the same about you. >> i'm confused. leo. >> i fe. uh,3 same about you. >> i'm confused. leo. >> i fe. uh, doll1e about you. >> i'm confused. leo. >> i fe. uh, doll sexbout you. >> i'm confused. leo.

>> i fe. uh, doll sex dolls.ou. >> i'm confused. leo. >> i fe. uh, doll sex dolls. rag >> no. uh, doll sex dolls. rag dolls , whatever. as i about dolls, whatever. as i do about trans , it's like if trans women, it's like if they're enough , if they're convincing enough, if you've transition you've done the transition enough me a rough enough to convince me a rough glance after three pints of been glance after three pints of beer. yeah well, some of those sex dolls are very convincing. >> are they? oh, they've got real. >> these ones weren't. >> these ones weren't. >> i mean , they don't. look, >> i mean, they don't. look, that's a very niche taste. yeah, if real, i do happen to if it's real, i do happen to think that she's having laugh. think that she's having a laugh. to luck think that she's having a laugh. to her, luck think that she's having a laugh. to her, because luck think that she's having a laugh. to her, because we luck think that she's having a laugh. to her, because we need luck think that she's having a laugh. to her, because we need more( on her, because we need more humour the world. don't we? humour in the world. don't we? next speech nation. next on free speech nation. lawyer and author luke gittoes will to here tell us about will be to here tell us about plans crime and plans to make hate crime and hate speech the worst hate speech among the worst serious crimes in the eu . so serious crimes in the eu. so please do not go anywhere

>> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. so on thursday , the european on thursday, the european parliament passed a resolution which called for the extension of the eu crime list to include

hate speech and hate crimes. the vote passed overwhelmingly with 397 for 121 against and 26 abstentions. these crimes could now be added to the eu's list of particularly serious crimes that have impact beyond national borders , which means all member borders, which means all member states would have to introduce binding minimum penalties. states would have to introduce binding minimum penalties . so binding minimum penalties. so here to discuss this, i have the lawyer and author luke gittoes . lawyer and author luke gittoes. welcome to the show, luke . so welcome to the show, luke. so talk us through this because i was already under the impression that there are hate speech laws across any case, in across europe. in any case, in individual why is individual countries. why is thisyeah , there >> yeah, there are. >> yeah, there are. >> change really is that >> so the change really is that the european union have a set of minimum standards for what has to be illegal in member states in order to remain a member state of the european union . so state of the european union. so they have minimum standards that say, look, you have to make this illegal. can't illegal. otherwise you can't be a state. a member state. >> yes. >> yes. >> and those are called euro crimes, sometimes abbreviated to euro normally they euro crimes. and normally they were terrorism , were things like terrorism, human trafficking. and you think, , fair enough. you

think, well, fair enough. you know, want those know, you want to make those things keep things illegal and keep them illegal. perfectly illegal. and it's perfectly reasonable minimum reasonable to set minimum standards kind. the standards of that kind. yes. the euro, this development means that hate speech will be added to that list. okay. now of course that becomes a lot more problematic for a lot of people because speech can mean because hate speech can mean different things to different people. you've spoken people. i mean, you've spoken about your show about this a lot on your show and effectively this and effectively what this development would do is a development would do is pass a lot to brussels to lot of power to brussels to decide what is and is not hate speech , and it's right to see speech, and it's right to see this , if i can briefly, without this, if i can briefly, without sending audience to sleep, sending your audience to sleep, talk a little bit more about eu law, which i know is a difficult thing to know, but it's important thing to know, but it's imfso ant thing to know, but it's imfso yeah . >> so yeah. >> so yeah. >> so yeah. >> so there's a thing called the digital came >> so there's a thing called the digunder came >> so there's a thing called the digunder a came >> so there's a thing called the digunder a big came >> so there's a thing called the digunder a big part came >> so there's a thing called the digunder a big part of came >> so there's a thing called the digunder a big part of ursula1e in under a big part of ursula von der leyen, who the von der leyen, who is the president european president of the european commission under her policy platform and von der leyen was very much behind the digital services act, which effectively would introduce across the eu new powers for the commission to punish digital service providers. people like x or twitter if they fail to crack

down on illegal speech. yes. and now. so this development kind of tailgates at the end, you know, following that and so what we're really seeing is the emergence of this new legal framework to allow the european commission and, and the eu to be more involved in censorship. i mean, that's what we're seeing, the unfolding of a, of of unfolding of a, of a, of a legislative framework will legislative framework that will expand reach into more expand their reach into more censorship . this, you know, more censorship. this, you know, more censorious activity. and they've been quite explicit about that. you know, they had a very explicit sit and spat with explicit sit and open spat with elon musk in the course of the last two years, where they've effectively accused him of propagating and propagating disinfo and misinformation. they threatened legal action, they threatened to shut down twitter's operation across the eu, which , if you across the eu, which, if you think completely think about it, is completely extraordinary that would think about it, is completely extra

law is pretty boring , but it's law is pretty boring, but it's all quite scary because , all can be quite scary because, as you know, the european commission elected. it's commission is not elected. it's appointed , and the european appointed, and the european parliament is elected, but it functions with what we call, you know, there is a democratic deficit, meaning that we most of us don't know who our european member of parliament is. no, none of us vote for the european commission. so there is this gap between the public and the and the law making the european the eu law making the european commission is just like commission is not just like the civil service or something. >> you know, have far, far >> you know, they have far, far more than that. more power than that. >> set the >> yeah they do. they set the legislative >> yeah they do. they set the legislativiunion , and then the european union, and then the european union, and then the european can vote on european parliament can vote on what european commission what the european commission proposes their as their policies i >> -- >> has the european commission made define what made any effort to define what they mean speech? they mean by hate speech? >> they have and it's of >> yeah, they have and it's of course broad. >> yeah, they have and it's of couso broad. >> yeah, they have and it's of couso what, broad. >> yeah, they have and it's of couso what, whatiroad. >> yeah, they have and it's of couso what, what onei. >> yeah, they have and it's of couso what, what one thing they >> so what, what one thing they actually mirror in relation to uk hate speech laws is that they take their lead from how a victim experiences what is said. so there are, you know, there's lots of definitions and one thing that's pretty consistent within the eu is actually finding exactly what they

finding out exactly what they mean. difficult mean. it's very difficult because everything is in different directives and different directives and different broadly different policies. but broadly they , if something they say, look, if something undermines someone's sense of identity or someone's rights, then that can constitute hate speech. >> so if someone's offended, in other words, mean, other words, i mean, it. >> could see >> yeah. you could you could see it going that direction, it going in that direction, couldn't in this couldn't you. and in this country, we've seen country, you know, we've seen hate speech laws fairly frequently used to punish things like gender critical ideology. you know, it's been it's been very involved in the discussion around gender with people being arrested and interviewed by the police for , for saying things police for, for saying things which are perceived to be transphobic. for example , and transphobic. for example, and jokes, in fact, jokes, of jokes, in fact, and jokes, of course yeah, absolutely. so course. yeah, absolutely. so i think the worrying thing is that when you take your definition of hate speech to be, well, hate speech as to be, well, whatever experiences as whatever someone experiences as hate speech, yes , then really hate speech, yes, then really there no limit on what can be criminalised. >> and when you add to that that this is being implemented by a body that has not been elected and be voted out, then and cannot be voted out, then you've basically the you've got basically the

ingredients for a kind of authoritarianism, haven't you? >> well, think very >> well, i think at the very least it makes it gives grist to the mill of those who are sceptical of the eu. >> mean, to leave the >> i mean, i voted to leave the european , and i so european union, and i did so because believe in national because i believe in national sovereignty. an issue sovereignty. and on an issue like speech, you know, on what we should free to say, you we should be free to say, you might think hate speech laws are a idea. might think a good idea. you might think they're i think they're a bad idea, but i think if you should they're a bad idea, but i think if that you should they're a bad idea, but i think if that should'ou should they're a bad idea, but i think if that should be should think that they should be elected by the elected and voted for by the public. they be public. and they should be critiqued public, and the critiqued by the public, and the pubuc critiqued by the public, and the public have complete public should have complete control over is and is not control over what is and is not illegal to say yes, that seems to me an absolute foundational issue for a democracy. so no matter what you think of the laws, you're right to say that the fact that the people introducing potentially very censorious laws not being elected, think is a real issue. >> will eu member states be able to opt out of this ? to opt out of this? >> uh, well, as everything within the eu there is politics involved here. and i think what we have to see, uh, you know, there is a cultural within the eu moment. we're eu at the moment. we're currently approaching a very

serious within the european serious vote within the european parliament, which may see hungary taking the leadership of very, very important meetings. hungary taking the leadership of very ofary important meetings. hungary taking the leadership of very ofary imp(that'smeetings. hungary taking the leadership of very ofary imp(that's causings. and of course, that's causing some consternation some serious consternation because hungary is often seen as an within the yes, an outlier within the eu. yes, there countries that there are other countries that seek similarly refuse to seek similarly just refuse to toe the line on particular issues , particularly around kind issues, particularly around kind of war style politics. of culture war style politics. so countries his, um, can opt out. but that has consequences. whenever you break the rules of the eu, there are consequences. and that can mean certain restrictions in how you participate . so the reality is participate. so the reality is that the eu often exercises soft power . it's not like they have power. it's not like they have legal power to change the rules or laws that a particular government passes. they don't have that kind of power, but they they are influential. they can. they are influential. and the fact that membership is contingent on passing certain laws or not is influential . laws or not is influential. >> well, yes, but you mentioned this , this attack on free speech this, this attack on free speech via the internet and particularly the run ins that the eu has had with elon musk over this. >> w- w- e on the other over this. >> on the other hand, >> but then on the other hand,

in we have left the eu. in britain, we have left the eu. so we are not subject to these ideas. just ideas. however, we've just passed the online safety bill, which sounds an awful lot like it's doing the thing. in it's doing the same thing. in other to big tech other words, saying to big tech platforms , you have to be platforms, you have to be responsible for what appears on your site and if misinformation appears there, you are liable. yeah, . so really we yeah, exactly. so really we haven't the haven't we're doing the same thing, aren't we? no. >> exactly. one thing >> exactly. and the one thing that the, the right like to do in this country is blame the eu for pretend that for everything and pretend that all of these are eu specific problems. course, problems. but of course, national legislatures, our government, our parliament are just as free to pass censorious legislation they continue to legislation and they continue to do as point out, the do so. as you point out, the online safety bill is an extremely serious threat to the way we conduct ourselves way that we conduct ourselves online. always open to online. so it's always open to governments to, to to, go as far and further than the eu in their attempts to kerb freedom of speech. >> is it not the case that we're losing this? know, the eu losing this? you know, the eu are we've had island are doing this. we've had island are doing this. we've had island are introducing incredibly are introducing this incredibly draconian which can't legislation which they can't even don't even even define. they don't even attempt other attempt to define hatred. other

than via a circular definition that brings back hatred. that brings you back to hatred. whatever that means. the scotland government of scotland scottish government of course. criminalising things course. uh criminalising things that you say in your own home. now, moving in the wrong now, are we moving in the wrong direction broadly speaking, across europe on this issue of hate speech? i think the answer is probably yes. >> i mean , it's important to >> i mean, it's important to emphasise people in case people aren't familiar with what the real problem with hate speech law is . you know, it it might law is. you know, it it might seem to people to be easy to be against hatred, but of course, often what we're talking about here, when we talk about these laws power to the laws is passing power to the police and to the authorities to decide what and not decide what is and is not acceptable to say. so. one thing i've seen in my own practice as a lawyer know, a criminal lawyer is, you know, i actually attend the i have to actually attend the police deal with police station and deal with these people these allegations when people are hauled up by the police, called in for interview or called in for an interview or called in for an interview or called station to called into a police station to account for what they've said in the course of a private conversation. now of course, often go often these cases don't go anywhere . they're discontinued anywhere. they're discontinued before or, before they're prosecuted or, you know, they just don't

proceed . and but the point is proceed. and but the point is that has real chilling that this has a real chilling effect on the that effect on people. the fact that there out which there is a law out there which could criminalise could be used to criminalise someone they say it someone for what they say it gives the impression that there is of opinion is one accepted body of opinion on particular issues. and i think that's the real risk of these laws is that it creates this where people this environment where people are afraid say what they are afraid to say what they really afraid to really think, they're afraid to debate and discuss issues in an open and informed way, and people are worried to express their true opinions. and although we do see prosecutions in this country and, and, and, and elsewhere for what people say, we see people going to prison for what i mean, i think we remember count dankula in scotland going prison for what? >> p— @ go to prison but >> he said he'd go to prison but was fine. was found guilty and fine. >> fined >> sure. found guilty and fined for what said. for what? he for what he said. um you don't see that very often. but what i think you do see, and i've seen it myself, is people being hauled into the police station and questioned , police station and questioned, and inevitably has and that inevitably has a chilling effect on the way people talk about particular topics. >> one of the i mean, i've spoken many feminists spoken to many feminists in particular visited

particular who have been visited by the or dragged in what by the police or dragged in what they experience they say is that the experience that is the that the process is the punishment, experience punishment, that the experience itself is so off putting. and this explain why we this might explain why we haven't been able to haven't really been able to have a conversation about a sensible conversation about this issue for so this very important issue for so long in this country, because everyone's terrified to say anything. >> yeah, quite. >> yeah, quite. >> then, know, the >> and then, uh, you know, the kind of cultural impact of that is extremely know, is extremely serious. you know, we be free to debate we have to be free to debate these topics. the law is a blunt instrument. an instrument. you know, it's an old saying, it's a good one instrument. you know, it's an ol

much forjoining me. and next on free speech nation, donald trump claimed a record breaking victory in the iowa caucuses . victory in the iowa caucuses. can anything stop him reclaiming the us presidency? i'll be discussing that with two great guests. don't go anywhere

>> you're listening to news. radio >> welcome back to free speech nation, former president donald trump is facing a host of criminal charges, and some states are actually trying to disqualify him from their ballots for the republican presidential primaries. >> but that did not stop him securing record breaking win securing a record breaking win in the iowa caucuses last week, taking over 50% of the vote to remain firmly on course to win the republican nomination for the republican nomination for the third time in a row. so is trump on to beat joe trump on course to beat joe biden and reclaim the presidency ? and what would that mean for america ? here discuss this, ? and what would that mean for am

weiner, a democratic strategist and former spokesperson for the clinton and bush administrations. robert, can i come to you first? how do you feel about trump's huge success in the iowa caucuses ? in the iowa caucuses? >> it's so blown out of all proportion, andrew, and thank you for having me again. it's been since april, since we last talked. so good to you and talked. so good to see you and hello the audience. saw hello to the audience. i saw a picture audience, so picture of your audience, so it's all it's blown out of all proportion. uh, you've got 50% of the vote, half of the people in iowa, half of the republican in iowa, half of the republican in iowa, half of the republican in iowa voted against him. and 31% of the entrance poll said that they would not vote for someone who was convicted in a felony . so what's he got? we got felony. so what's he got? we got a lot to work with. and, uh, you take the fact that the, uh, lagging indicators of the economy, biden stopped a recession. we stopped a recession. we stopped a recession that everyone said was going to come. and he , uh, and going to come. and he, uh, and you have all these judges that are going to do excoriating rulings and the juries about

trump very shortly in the e jean carroll case and the business case that start, for starters, let the filegate and the let alone the filegate and the rigging of elections, when those judges rulings come down, it's going like the january 6th going to be like the january 6th heanngs going to be like the january 6th hearings that dropped trump ten points polls. so we i'm points in the polls. so we i'm telling my democratic colleagues, don't panic. the best is yet to be. >> well, errol, what do you think about that? are we reading too much into this iowa win to some degree, iowa is not the bellwether that it used to be. >> uh, demographic wise. but, you know, as much as i respect what robert's saying, obviously he has to spin what a very he has to spin what was a very positive event for mr trump into a negative light let's in a negative light. let's keep in mind largest margin mind this is the largest margin of victory for non—incumbent . of victory for a non—incumbent. donald trump the donald trump is not the incumbent presidency. we don't have system where have an oligarchic system where we just anoint people . we had we just anoint people. we had a proper primary and just some breaking news. by the way, ron desantis just dropped the desantis just dropped out of the primaries just now. within the last five minutes. and so that's what that was. that was a referendum consolidate of

referendum on his consolidate of power party . power in the republican party. now, granted, desantis did well with nikki haley came in with 21. nikki haley came in a third with 19. they didn't vote against trump as much as some people. obviously have anti—trump sentiments, there was anti—trump sentiments, there was a lot of ballots changing at the at the, uh, what was that? the polling stations, i think one county went for. mrs. uh, mrs. haley. so donald trump, you know, galvanised the base. he know, he galvanised the base. he did $10 million of ad did about $10 million of ad spend being the spend without being on the ground as much as the other candidates, been candidates, because he's been deaung candidates, because he's been dealing with scurrilous, dealing with these scurrilous, you frivolous trials you know, frivolous trials around and so , around the country. and so, despite that, came in, despite all of that, he came in, proved his point, did exactly what he was going to do, what he said he was going to do, and with the victory. >> can i come to you on this, robert? because it does. a lot of argued every of people have argued that every time trump , of people have argued that every time trump, you time people attack trump, you know, when they try to take him off ballot , for instance, off the ballot, for instance, that does wonders that actually that does wonders for his message. his message for his message. and his message is they're all out to get me. the is going to the deep state is going to resort anything rid of resort to anything to get rid of me. that kind of me. doesn't that these kind of tactics confirm that ? tactics just confirm that? >> well , no. tactics just confirm that? >> well, no. uh, because , uh,

>> well, no. uh, because, uh, the judges haven't spoken . and the judges haven't spoken. and of course, trump is going to say that i would like to know which part of what i said that was. fact errol says, is spin . fact errol says, is spin. >> well, that's an interesting question. >> i'll put it straight to errol. which part of what robert said spin the spin was was it said is spin the spin was was it was insinuating simply that the republican party is not behind donald trump and that 50% of our party voted against him in a primary. >> we have different opinions , >> we have different opinions, but once we pick our candidate, the idea that those people are not people spin . make not trump people is spin. make it an easy answer. >> okay, well, those were those were big words, they were big words, but they didn't answer you answer my question. so thank you for the question. >> okay, robert, can i ask you specifically the question >> okay, robert, can i ask you specifi> okay, robert, can i ask you specifi> okay, robert, can i ask you specifi

bans and a short abortion terme that the republicans lose ten points every time they got the abortion issue. >> so he had a lot going against him. haley is a bigger challenge , to honest. , to be honest. >> do you have any concerns >> but do you have any concerns about in i mean, a lot of about biden in i mean, a lot of people in the democrat party don't think should run again . don't think he should run again. they don't kamala they certainly don't want kamala harris to run again. what do you have concerns whatsoever ? have any concerns whatsoever? >> biden has been so under sold, andrew i met him back in when we were both in our 20s, and he had me come to his house after i organised a youth for him organised a youth vote for him for democratic national for the democratic national committee. we've been friends forever. known forever. he he has been known forever. he he has been known for making gaffes. he's been known for speaking too long. so was bill clinton. then he got elected president. so biden is being biden, and they're calling it age. what he did to the republicans in the in the state of union and them in of the union and box them in against cuts social security . against cuts in social security. what he did with the press, what he democracy speech, he did in his democracy speech, just a week ago. he is phenomenal on these issues, and it's pure ageism . and age is

it's pure ageism. and age is just number. and when it's just a number. and when it's a choice between trump and biden and egotist, he's and trump is the egotist, he's the narcissist . and trump is the egotist, he's the narcissist. he's and trump is the egotist, he's the narcissist . he's the the narcissist. he's the pro—russian three pro—russian with charging three times as much to the russians and getting the money for his condos florida and all that. condos in florida and all that. and towers , all the and the trump towers, all the things that did , uh, and, things that trump did, uh, and, and the rigging of the elections . find me 11,780 votes when all that comes out again and when it'll be, as i said, like the january 6th hearing, which dropped trump ten points in the polls the facts the polls when the facts the evidence the people come evidence and the people come out. , errol, i'm out. and finally, errol, i'm just give you last just going to give you the last word . word there. >> what's your prediction for how all going to go? how this is all going to go? >> to go >> well, this is going to go exactly as the donald trump story always goes. it's the rise. it's the fall . it's the rise. it's the fall. it's the redemption. teflon don. redemption. he's a teflon don. he's going to cruise through this . he's going this primary. he's going to get to general election. and the to the general election. and the real question is, is joe biden going to get there? if he actually is dragged by actually is dragged there by his handlers and his wife and somehow is actually the candidate, donald trump will be our president. candidate, donald trump will be our president . that doesn't candidate, donald trump will be our prthatent . that doesn't candidate, donald trump will be our prthat it. that doesn't candidate, donald trump will be our prthat i believe hat doesn't candidate, donald trump will be

our prthat i believe hat cjoe n't mean that i believe that joe biden to the biden is going to be the ultimate out ultimate president. he's out of his internationally. ultimate president. he's out of his of internationally. ultimate president. he's out of his of his internationally. ultimate president. he's out of his of his depth ationally. ultimate president. he's out of his of his depth domestically. out of his depth domestically. he's than ever. he's polling worse than ever. the american people seeing the american people are seeing the failure the complete failure economically socially economically and socially in this country, and yearn for this country, and they yearn for the economic and political and social success of a donald trump presidency. so we're excited to see that look. >> thank you both coming on, >> thank you both for coming on, robert . robert. >> we are robert. >> i'm so sorry we are out of time. will time. but listen, i will i will definitely you both back on definitely want you both back on because this an absolutely because this is an absolutely fascinating on and being you for being on and being so candid and on free speech candid. and next on free speech nation, i'm going to be meeting doctor andrew timing, who says he job at an australian he lost his job at an australian university of a tweet he university because of a tweet he sent december 2022, plus sent back in december 2022, plus some social sensations and our usual unfiltered dilemmas do not go anywhere .

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle, australia . an academic, andrew

australia. an academic, andrew timming claims he was sacked from his job just before christmas because of a tweet he sent back in december of 2022. reacting to an online spat between influencer andrew tate and climate activist greta thunberg, timming wrote demeaning sexual jokes when directed from a woman to a man alongside a smiley emoji and demeaning sexual jokes when directed from a woman , from directed from a woman, from a man to a woman next to a bomb, and crossbones emoji . and skull and crossbones emoji. so here to tell us what happened early monday morning in early on a monday morning in melbourne, andrew melbourne, it's professor andrew timming. thanks so much for joining us. can ask joining us. andrew, can i ask you? that tweet. you? we've just seen that tweet. uh, particularly uh, it doesn't look particularly offensive. it looks like an opinion that you're expressing. what happened . and . what exactly happened. and. >> i'm still trying to figure out what exactly happened. uh, i've been told that i have all this white male privilege, uh, and i'm still looking for it because, um, you know, i've been sacked by the university , sacked by the university, essentially, for, as you say, expressing an opinion. i didn't think there was anything particularly controversial about that tweet. and even if there

were something controversial about that tweet, academics in australia have a right to be shocking and offensive. um and i don't think it approaches anything along those lines. i've published previously on the metoo movement. so i have every right as an academic to comment publicly on issue . uh, but publicly on this issue. uh, but when it essentially motivated , when it essentially motivated, uh, greta's woke army of social justice warriors to make a whole series of complaints to the university , they simply university, they simply identified me as someone that could no longer be sustained in the role, despite the fact that ihave the role, despite the fact that i have tenure and a permanent contract. they just pushed me out. >> i mean, it's perfectly clear that outlining that you're outlining the double standards you perceive it standards as you perceive it between andrew tate said between what andrew tate said and what greta thunberg said . and what greta thunberg said. um, idea that would be um, the idea that that would be a i most a sackable offence, i think most would as would strike most of us as ridiculous when you first ridiculous. when did you first hear university about hear from the university about this ? this? >> uh, i heard about the university city essentially a couple of days after the tweet, i was brought into a series of,

um, pre—disciplinary meetings. you could call them and threatened with disciplinary action over the tweet . the action over the tweet. the universities in australia are probably similar in the uk are quite clever. so they they would very rarely, uh , sack someone very rarely, uh, sack someone over a tweet . their preferred over a tweet. their preferred mode of action is to essentially create a hostile work environment for as long as possible . uh, in order to possible. uh, in order to convince , uh, the target to convince, uh, the target to essentially jump voluntarily in quotations . uh, that didn't quotations. uh, that didn't happen with me . they tried as happen with me. they tried as hard as they could to get rid of me by creating a toxic environment. i held on with the help of the free speech union . help of the free speech union. i've been represented by the free speech union of australia here throughout whole here throughout this whole debacle. uh, and in the end , debacle. uh, and in the end, they they realised it wasn't working . and so they just they working. and so they just they just me . just sacked me. >> you describe what >> so can you just describe what kind hostile environment did kind of hostile environment did they did that they create and how did that manifest ? manifest itself? >> uh, i mean, that's a good question. how do you destroy or obliterate the employment

relationship? well you start with confidence in the with trust and confidence in the employment relationship . they employment relationship. they did all kinds of things. they tampered my deleted tampered with my email, deleted emails and meeting invitations, claimed that meetings that i attended didn't take place acas. uh, they stood me down for health reasons, despite the fact that the day before they stood me down, uh, they had a letter from my gp stating that i was perfectly fit for work . um, you perfectly fit for work. um, you know, they sacked me from my deputy dean. and deputy dean. research and innovation role. they withdrew sponsorship of my security clearance because i work with the department of defence or i guessi the department of defence or i guess i should say, i used to work department work with the department of defence. uh, they withdrew sponsorship of my security clearance, that clearance, so i couldn't do that . was basically . uh, it was basically a non—stop barrage of bullying . non—stop barrage of bullying. >> but now that they have actually sacked you and they are saying this for saying they've done this for a tweet, you must have tweet, surely you must have legal recourse. i mean, that can't be something that they can do, it ? do, can it? >> well, what they're saying is that the reason i was sacked is for not doing , uh, work that was

for not doing, uh, work that was allocated to me . now, here's the allocated to me. now, here's the situation. as a result of the enterprise agreement containing a clause that allows academics to dispute that workload code, i was able to initiate that process. and rather than let that process unfold , they just that process unfold, they just decided to get me out . uh, decided to get me out. uh, because essentially five days earlier, i had submitted an ibac. this is the sort of anti—corruption watchdog here in victoria. an ibac complaint. so as i said, they looked for any reason possible to sack me . reason possible to sack me. there's no possible way that any court could look at the situation and say that he should be sacked for not doing work when follow . when he was legitimately follow. doing the enterprise agreements procedures to dispute that work. so the end, i will win and so in the end, i will win and i know i will win because it's an open closed case. open and closed case. >> well, it all sounds very underhand . professor underhand. uh, professor timming, of time, but timming, we're out of time, but i'd love you to come back the i'd love you to come back on the show give us update when show and give us an update when you okay. show and give us an update when you you okay. show and give us an update when you you ever okay. show and give us an update when you you ever much (ay. show and give us an update when you you ever much for thank you ever so much for joining to . okay.

joining us. happy to. okay. we've just got time at the end of the show to talk through our unfiltered dilemmas. thanks for emailing usual. we've got emailing in as usual. we've got a dilemma in from jenny. jenny has said date night, the sacred once a week escape from our lovely offspring. i hinted at a romantic dinner, but my husband's idea of quality time was on the driving range . to my was on the driving range. to my amazement, into me amazement, it turned into me being the audience while hit being the audience while he hit a load of balls. should i tee off on him? not quite sure what you mean by that, emma, but it seems quite rude to me . seems quite rude to me. >> what do you think? >> what do you think? >> yeah, that's not much of a date night unless she's got some sort which has sort of golf fetish, which has never happened. >> his wife is a four, so. yeah. >>— >> his wife is a four, so. yeah. >> what does that mean, jonathan? >> a four out of ten. i understand, but what would you do in that sort situation? do in that sort of situation? i can understand he's of can understand why he's proud of his golf, and he wants her to see know, see the golf. and you know, i think reasonable . but think that's reasonable. but then hand, get then on the other hand, you get your parents jump your parents to watch you jump into like, watch me do dive. >> and it is a bit childish, i suppose. >> but, you know, maybe they should >> but, you know, maybe they

sh something that before >> but, you know, maybe they sh s> but, you know, maybe they sh s> but, you know, maybe they sh ssoas,1ithink. that before >> but, you know, maybe they sh ssoas,1i th not that before >> but, you know, maybe they shssoas,1ithnot tgoodefore >> so that's not a good date night. you want to to that night. you want to go to that party we were talking about earlier, the let's not mention the jonathan, the details of that, jonathan, because for television. >> so what should emma do? very finally split with finally, we, uh, split up with your husband . your husband. >> do it now. >> do it now. >> give us a call. >>— >> give us a call. >> i mean, do it while you're angry. >> i think some of the advice angry. >> iyomk some of the advice angry. >> iyou hearne of the advice angry. >> iyou hear on of the advice angry. >> iyou hear on of tr show ice angry. >> iyou hear on of tr show can that you hear on this show can be among the worst advice of all time. you for time. so, uh, thank you for writing please don't writing in, but please don't take say take anything that we say seriously. thanks so much for joining us for free speech nation. this was the week when nicola went on a nicola sturgeon went on a deletion spree. the american media decided to censor the front runner for the republican party's presidential race, and a woman twin ragdolls. thanks woman had twin ragdolls. thanks ever so much to my panel, jonathan kogan and leo kearse and to all of my guests this evening the if you evening. and by the way, if you want live in want to join us, live in the studio of our studio and be part of our wonderful audience, can wonderful audience, you can easily do can apply at easily do that. you can apply at sro audiences.com, the website is right there on the screen . do is right there on the screen. do stay tuned. mark dolan tonight is coming up next. and don't forget headliners is on every night at 11:00. that's the late

night at 11:00. that's the late night paper preview show where comedian talk you through the next top news stories. next day's top news stories. thank so much for watching thank ever so much for watching free speech nation . i'll see you free speech nation. i'll see you next . next week. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsor of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather. i'm ellie glaisyer storm isha will bnng ellie glaisyer storm isha will bring some very heavy rain and some strong winds across the uk overnight tonight and into monday morning. it pushes its way north and eastwards across western parts of scotland this evening, bringing some very heavy rain, particularly to those western parts of the uk. that rain will continue to push its way north and eastwards through evening through the evening and overnight, and it's through the early of monday morning early hours of monday morning that really start to that those winds really start to pick gusts of 60 to 75 miles pick up. gusts of 60 to 75 miles an hour across those western coasts, perhaps as high as 90 across scotland . it

across parts of scotland. it will be very mild night as will be a very mild night as well, particularly compared to what , maybe what we've seen recently, maybe 8 across the 8 or 9 degrees across the south—east a very windy start to the day on monday, though those winds will ease a touch through the early hours of the morning, winds will ease a touch through the still' hours of the morning, winds will ease a touch through the still remaining:he morning, winds will ease a touch through the still remaining very|orning, but still remaining very blustery across the uk into monday afternoon. showers quite widely pushing in from the west into monday afternoon as well, perhaps wintry across perhaps turning wintry across the ground of the very high ground of scotland. there will be some sunshine across the very far southeast. here may southeast. temperatures here may be 10 or degrees, and be 10 or 11 degrees, and elsewhere the mid single elsewhere around the mid single figures. tuesday will start a little bit drier for some, particularly along eastern parts of that doesn't of england, but that doesn't last this next last very long. this next system, pushing in from the west as we go through tuesday afternoon, bringing some further heavy rain, particularly to western scotland, western parts of scotland, north—west england and into wales well, and some strong wales as well, and some strong winds associated with that . winds associated with that. something drier on something a little drier on wednesday wet and wednesday, but further wet and windy in the week . windy weather later in the week. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers as sponsors of

weather on .

gb news. hello good evening from the gb newsroom. >> i'm tamsin roberts with the top stories throughout . top stories throughout. thousands of households are without power tonight as storm isha sweeps across the uk. winds of up to 90mph have hit wales with forecasters warning of danger to life in some areas of britain. the met office says a tornado could hit northern ireland. parts of scotland and northern england and that tornado watch zones have been issued. network rail has suspended its services and scotrail has cancelled its monday morning rush hour services. flights have also been disrupted, with some cancellations. gb news news, northern ireland reporter dougie beattie has this update. storm isha has most definitely made landfall in northern ireland.

>> the small town of portstewart is now being battered by very high winds. >> there has been power outages in county down and fallen trees in county down and fallen trees in hollywood . in hollywood. >> this storm is only going to get worse as the night goes on. >> ron desantis has dropped out of the us presidential race and endorsed donald trump. his surprise video announcement comes ahead of this week's new hampshire . republican primary, hampshire. republican primary, where mr desantis was polling in the single digits. his departure leaves haley as mr trump's leaves nikki haley as mr trump's only significant rival . only significant rival. detectives investigate rating the deaths of four people in norwich on friday say two adults died of stab wounds. the man and woman, along with two young children, were found dead in a house in kc, post—mortal. examinations for two girls will be carried out on wednesday. norfolk police has referred itself to the independent watchdog after failing to

respond to a 999 call from the