called for him to be clarke called for him to be replaced. but how much damage has this lone wolf attempt done to the tories .7 i'll be asking to the tories.7 i'll be asking the former justice secretary, sir robert buckland, for his thoughts on the sentencing of the nottingham killer. valdo calocane did he get away with murder.7 i'll be speaking to kemi badenoch, the woman tipped to be the next tory leadership leader, live in the studio and after holocaust memorial day yesterday, i'll be joined by the former chair of the jewish labour movement , ivor former chair of the jewish labour movement, ivor kaplan. does labour still have an anti—semitism issue? i'll also be grilling former mep and boris johnson backer david campbell bannerman about his right wing splinter group, the conservative democratic organisation is this the vehicle for a cincinnatus style blonde comeback and talking of blonde comebacks, donald trump has stormed to victory in the second primary in new hampshire this week. i'll be asking his former press secretary, stephanie grisham , if secretary, stephanie grisham, if he can make america great again.

well before we get into all of that, and as you can see, it's a jam packed show, very much looking forward to kemi coming into the studio. a little later, but let's go through the papers first all with michael first of all with michael portillo, defence portillo, former defence secretary, fellow gb secretary, and my fellow gb news presenter, be with presenter, he'll be with you from michael lovely to see from 11. michael lovely to see you morning. what busy you this morning. what a busy morning you're prepping morning for you. you're prepping a you're doing paper review. >> couldn't be more delighted. >> i couldn't be more delighted. it's lovely to be with you. >> lovely to be with you. and let's story. first of let's pick a story. first of all, that is very much well down your street. as a former defence secretary again, got secretary once again, we've got headunes secretary once again, we've got headlines the sunday headlines in the sunday telegraph, uk warships telegraph, this time uk warships lack to take out lack firepower to take out houthi um, there's this houthi bases. um, there's this constant of stories , constant string of stories, isn't there, about us being under defended. um, we had grant shapps on last week. he was talking about how defence spending is now creeping up to 2.25% of gdp . ben wallace, his

2.25% of gdp. ben wallace, his predecessor , suggested it should predecessor, suggested it should be 3. we hear that we've got the smallest army, i think, since the napoleonic wars. numbers are down. there's a question as to whether we can staff frigates in the red sea. why haven't we sent aircraft carriers ? what's your aircraft carriers? what's your impression situation ? impression of the situation? >> well, i don't think it matters how much spend. it's matters how much you spend. it's how you spend how effectively you spend it. and spend very ineffective and we spend it very ineffective . poorly. lots of . poorly. we have lots of scandals about defence spending, and partly because of and i think partly because of the monopoly position of some of our defence suppliers, we don't get good value and we don't get reliability. this latest story in the telegraph is that hms diamond, which is our ship, which is out there defending the red sea, doesn't have the capability of firing a missile from the ship to the land, so it can't participate in the attacks on the houthis. so in order that we can participate in the attacks , we are flying raf attacks, we are flying raf aircraft from cyprus, which is a very long way away. um, when i was defence secretary, i ordered , um, cruise missiles for our

nuclear powered, but not nuclear armed submarines. and i think we have six or possibly seven of those, but last autumn it was reported that five of those were out of commission. were not available. uh we have about 21 aggressive surface ships, so we've got two aircraft carriers, then we've got frigates and we've got destroyers . but at any we've got destroyers. but at any one time you can count on about half of those not being available because they're under refit or whatever . so we have refit or whatever. so we have a minimal surface fleet now and for whatever reason, it doesn't seem that we're able to deploy a submarine to the area that can fire cruise missiles. our two aircraft carriers built at enormous expense, are sitting in portsmouth, which seems to most people ludicrous. >> well, at least with what's going it doesn't going on, it doesn't seem ludicrous i've ludicrous to me because i've always thought aircraft always thought these aircraft carriers a vanity project. >> really , aircraft carrier >> really, an aircraft carrier is enormous target yes. and is an enormous target. yes. and if of these were hit and if one of these were hit and sunk, we would know, sunk, we would lose, you know, £3 worth of ship, £2 £3 billion worth of ship, £2 billion worth of aircraft and 2000 personnel. we're never

2000 personnel. and we're never going that . the going to risk doing that. the aircraft carriers are huge things they need to be defended. we have ships to we don't have the ships to defend them. >> so then it begs the question, why them? mean, why have them? okay, i mean, you're pretty you're painting a pretty appalling picture. >> picture is indeed >> the picture is indeed appalling and there's no point having the aircraft carriers , having the aircraft carriers, um, the aircraft carriers could only conjunction with only operate in conjunction with allies. we need allies to defend them. that there is some question as to whether the aircraft carrier now out of question as to whether the aircrebecause' now out of question as to whether the aircrebecause of now out of question as to whether the aircrebecause of thev out of question as to whether the aircrebecause of the advance in date because of the advance in ballistic technology and ballistic missile technology and we're learning a lot from from the ukraine war, for example, we're learning how even quite the ukraine war, for example, we're powers| how even quite the ukraine war, for example, we're powers with even quite the ukraine war, for example, we're powers with sortn quite the ukraine war, for example, we're powers with sort of|uite small powers with sort of improvised weaponry can take out big ships. the ukrainians have been successful . they been very successful. they don't even a to speak of. even have a navy to speak of. they're successful against even have a navy to speak of. the russian successful against even have a navy to speak of. the russian navy cessful against even have a navy to speak of. the russian navy .essful against even have a navy to speak of. the russian navy . um,l against even have a navy to speak of. the russian navy . um, sogainst even have a navy to speak of. the russian navy . um, sogethink the russian navy. um, so i think we're invested , you know, in the we're invested, you know, in the wrong things . and our kit is wrong things. and our kit is unreliable or not available. and not equipped for purpose. >> how worried are you about what's been going on in the middle east and beyond with regard to where we might lie in this whole conflict, because

we've warnings that we we've also had warnings that we might with russia in might be at war with russia in 20 time. 20 years time. >> i'm hugely worried. and i think the other thing that hugely is there's hugely worries me is there's virtually political reaction virtually no political reaction in yes i mean, in this country. yes i mean, despite all things that are despite all the things that are happening, you know, the invasion ukraine then invasion of ukraine and then everything around gaza and israel the red there's israel and the red sea, there's still sent a shockwave still it hasn't sent a shockwave through the political system in britain. have britain. we don't have a government right, all government saying, right, all bets going to bets are off. we're now going to have our defence have to rethink our defence policy. the posture of policy. indeed, the posture of grant is, oh, no, i'm not grant shapps is, oh, no, i'm not going to rethink my defence policy. so i mean, that's i think most me think what most, most worries me that politicians want to pretend to the public that nothing has changed. fear lots has changed. >> um, we could talk about that all morning, but let's move on to the next story. there's a really interesting investigation by the insight team on the sunday times suggesting that foreign getting foreign students are getting a secret route to top universities. don't to universities. they don't need to get grades as uk get as high a grades as uk students wanting to get into russell group institutions. students wanting to get into rusthe group institutions. students wanting to get into rusthe thing�* institutions. students wanting to get into rusthe thing thatitutions. students wanting to get into rusthe thing that depresses me >> the thing that depresses me about story is that yet about this story is that yet another institution is another british institution is shown not to be working, and

until recently, the universities used to be a great source of pride for britain. we're we're very close to the top of the league tables in the for world universities. what's universities. but what's happening the amount happening is that the amount that the universities can charge british students has hardly risen since david cameron became prime minister. so it's a maximum of nine two, £50,000, £9,250 at. and so the universities are turning to foreign students who pay up to 38,000. but it turns out that these foreign students don't even have to be properly qualified. they can come through a back door route whereby they can come in with minimal qualifications . owens or i can come in with minimal qualifications. owens or i mean really minimal qualifications and they get in and the universities get 38,000. by the way, the universities are paying huge commissions to bring these people in. they're paying agencies. and so on. of agencies. and so on. and of course, brings down the course, it brings down the standard achievement of standard of achievement of the university and may well impact the experience of the other students. the experience of the other studseminars with students who and seminars with students who are not to it, no, are simply not up to it, no, then of course the course is

going to be slowed down or british students are going to have more on their own have to rely more on their own resources. so sure that it resources. so i'm sure that it is depressing the quality of british is depressing the quality of brit if1 is depressing the quality of brit if in this great experiment >> if in this great experiment of social mobility that was trying to more children to trying to send more children to university blair's university back in blair's day, and you have a comprehensively educated child who's done really well at school, they then get the three a's or the three stars, whatever it is that they need to get into. russell group. they then found that they've they then found out that they've missed place because missed out on a place because somebody's imported from somebody's been imported from overseas c's rather overseas with three c's rather than a's. how is that fair ? >> and 7 >> and then ? >> and then they may find their lecturers anyway . lecturers are on strike anyway. well, um, no, it's an indictment. it's another miserable situation. >> it is to , uh, tories torn >> it is to, uh, tories torn apart is the headline we've put on the next section. we've got dan in the mail dan hodges writing in the mail on sunday rishi having to on sunday about rishi having to call of rebels, just call the bluff of rebels, just like john major did . does he like john major did. does he know ? know? >> i think there's a bit of a journalism. i mean, what john major did was very interesting. i didn't think it was advisable, but two years before the

election 1995, he said, i'm election in 1995, he said, i'm stepping down as leader and immediately presenting myself as candidate again, calling the bluff the rebels. so in fact, bluff of the rebels. so in fact, what happened was , um, uh, i've what happened was, um, uh, i've forgotten his name now. john. what's his name? redwood redwood. i couldn't couldn't get his name right. john redwood stood against him, but, um. but major the victor, so, um, so major was the victor, so, um, so major was the victor, so, um, so major established then that he was the leader, and he wasn't going to be challenged in the next two years after the election. we're now an election yeah election. we're now an election year. yeah. rishi can't do the same thing. year. yeah. rishi can't do the santhen ng. year. yeah. rishi can't do the santhen the idea of deposing >> then the idea of deposing rishi the birds? rishi now, is it for the birds? >> completely for the birds? >> completely for the birds? >> what if it gets even worse? the budget doesn't down very the budget doesn't go down very well, move the dial. well, doesn't move the dial. farage retaking farage announces his retaking the and that the helm of reform. and at that point, you see reform and the conservatives both polling at 20. well the tories in my view, are stuck with rishi. >> and if they decide to have a leadership election, in my view , leadership election, in my view, they would do even worse than sticking with rishi. >> about my who's >> what about my guess who's coming on later in the show? kemi badenoch takes the reins. i

mean, said that she doesn't mean, she said that she doesn't want there's few briefings want to. there's a few briefings that going her. that i'm going to put to her. >> well, of course, of course she doesn't want to because she doesn't want to lead the tories to but can't to defeat. but i can't understand lead understand her wanting to lead the after defeat either. the tories after defeat either. for matter, because, well, for that matter, because, well, if are reduced to if the tories are reduced to a rump, won't be back the rump, they won't be back at the following election. they won't be within five years. be back within five years. they'll ten years. they'll be out for ten years. they'll be out for ten years. the who to be the the minimum. who wants to be the leader the conservative party leader of the conservative party after this defeat? it will be in opposition. it will be a rump and no one wants to and irrelevant. no one wants to listen that the leader listen to a word that the leader says, that leader will lose says, and that leader will lose the following election. my the following election. in my view, it's not view, and therefore it's not a position anyone want position that anyone should want to speak with to hold. but you speak with wisdom experience there wisdom and experience there because mad because there are these mad tory mps are oh, maybe we mps who are saying, oh, maybe we need a period in opposition and ikeep need a period in opposition and i keep on thinking, what are you talking about? i keep on thinking, what are you taliwell,bout? i keep on thinking, what are you taliwell, they're going >> well, they're going to have a penod >> well, they're going to have a period in opposition, but they need recognise that need to recognise that it probably be years. probably won't be five years. >> it would more and it won't >> it would be more and it won't be fun either, and it won't be much fun either, and it won't be much fun either, and it won't be fun. be any fun. >> having said that, badenoch sacking henry staunton as the

chairman post office. chairman of the post office. i mean, that he left by mean, they said that he left by mutual i think mutual agreement, but i think we've know what's mutual agreement, but i think we've yes. know what's mutual agreement, but i think we've yes. i know what's mutual agreement, but i think we've yes. i mean,r what's mutual agreement, but i think we've yes. i mean, isn'tt's happened. yes. i mean, isn't that a little bit of manoeuvring? isn't that trying to send message public to send a message to the public that tough and that that she's quite tough and that she take difficult decisions? >> it may be. i mean, it seems to be shrouded in mystery as to what's they what's happened. they seem possibly been row possibly to have been a row about who should be the lead independent director on the post office board. what i think is worth noting is that royal assent given to the post assent was given to the post office horizon compensation bill the means that the other day, which means that that underway. don't that is underway. now. i don't know the of the know whether the chairman of the post plays any part now post office plays any part now in government scheme, in the government backed scheme, which compensate the which is going to compensate the postmasters. which is going to compensate the postn hopefully before the year, hopefully before the general election. um, so there may have been a of may have been a bit of grandstanding here. don't grandstanding here. i don't know, what said know, but um, but what she said on this morning on other channels this morning was that she'd given him a chance he wasn't the man for chance and he wasn't the man for the no. the job. no. >> well, push a little >> well, we'll push a little further on that for more further on that for some more detail. appreciate the detail. finally i appreciate the story today's papers, story isn't in today's papers, but it has been running all week and this row over. um, the and it's this row over. um, the use of nitrogen hypoxia to kill this death row

this man who was on death row in, alabama , in alabama. in, in, um, alabama, in alabama. and it's linked back to and it's been linked back to you. i wanted you you. and i wanted to ask you about this is about it because this is intriguing, because you did a television show back in 2015 where for you, believe, tested where for you, i believe, tested this execution on. this method of execution on. just tell me briefly about it, michael. what happened? >> i didn't test this method of execution, and it was a bit longer ago that. but what i longer ago than that. but what i did was test hypoxia. so for did do was test hypoxia. so for i various ways in which i tested various ways in which people are in the united people are killed in the united states and, and ask the question as to whether there was a more humane way of doing it. so i was put into hypoxic situations, for example, into a chamber run by the netherlands air force, which simulated what happens if you're in an aircraft at 30,000ft and suddenly the windows blow out . suddenly the windows blow out. and what happened to me was that i was almost instantly rendered incapable as an experiment . i incapable as an experiment. i was trying to play with children's toys, putting triangle shapes into triangle spaces, and i was quickly unable to do that. i was asked , what is to do that. i was asked, what is nine minus five? and i said

five, and then the officer who was with me, the air force officer who was wearing an oxygen mask, said to me, michael, put your mask on or you will die. and i was incapable of putting my own mask on. now this suggested that hypoxia was very fast acting and that you had obviously i was in no pain or anything like that. i was just completely unaware. by the way, this is why if you're on an aircraft and it depressurise , aircraft and it depressurise, you must your own mask on you must put your own mask on first because you will soon be incapable anybody first because you will soon be incapbute anybody first because you will soon be incap but of anybody first because you will soon be incapbut of course anybody first because you will soon be incapbut of course i anybody first because you will soon be incapbut of course i can't.»dy else. but of course i can't. i can't go on and draw conclusions. no, we did not experiment with nitrogen . but experiment with nitrogen. but what i can say is it was it was evident to me that hypoxia renders you incapable almost instantaneously. >> so there's been this furore over the way that this man has been executed. but actually, in comparison to lethal injection or other methods, it well be or other methods, it may well be more humane or i know you don't believe the death penalty believe in the death penalty anyway, things, one anyway, one of the things, one of that the programme of the things that the programme found out was that the lethal

injection had been invented by someone unqualified someone who was unqualified to invent had invent it, and no research had been done before it was introduced. >> so seriously, if the state of oklahoma, which is where the story came about, the state of oklahoma was prepared to switch to they'd seen to hypoxia because they'd seen a bbc programme with me. yes, that would be another complete lack of evidence and science. i know i did, in order to introduce a new death penalty stretch. >> you'll be with >> michael, you'll be back with us at 11:00 am. lovely to see you this morning. thank you very much sparing the much indeed for sparing the time. go anywhere time. now, don't go anywhere because joined because we're going to be joined by lord chancellor by the former lord chancellor and secretary, sir and justice secretary, sir robert buckland. all that after and justice secretary, sir robweather, and. all that after and justice secretary, sir robweather, a brighteriat after and justice secretary, sir robweather, a brighter outlook the weather, a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> good morning. welcome to your latest gb news, weather forecast. i'm craig snell . we're forecast. i'm craig snell. we're looking ahead to today. most of us should see some sunshine at times for all it will be times and for all it will be feeling mild so we start feeling very mild so we start the day actually with a touch of frost in the east. but here

we'll see bright skies from the word elsewhere. a fair amount word go elsewhere. a fair amount of cloud around and maybe the odd and spot rain. but odd spit and spot of rain. but most this cloud will tend to most of this cloud will tend to break up a little bit as we go into the afternoon, allowing some but up some spells of sunshine, but up towards northern towards parts of northern ireland, scotland we towards parts of northern irela see scotland we towards parts of northern irela see this scotland we towards parts of northern irela see this band cotland we towards parts of northern irelasee this band of land we towards parts of northern irelasee this band of rain we towards parts of northern irelasee this band of rain move will see this band of rain move in during afternoon, and in during the afternoon, and that accompanied by some that will be accompanied by some very strong winds. but with the winds the south, winds coming in from the south, it's a very mild it's going to be a very mild day. actually, some parts of northern wales could highs northern wales could see highs reaching degrees reaching 16 to 17 degrees into the . the rain to slowly the evening. the rain to slowly moves its south eastwards the evening. the rain to slowly moves parts south eastwards the evening. the rain to slowly moves parts of south eastwards the evening. the rain to slowly moves parts of scotland twards the evening. the rain to slowly moves parts of scotland and is across parts of scotland and eventually moving into northern northern england and the far northern england and the far north of wales later on in the night. but to the south of it it remains mild but rather cloudy, could just see touch of frost could just see a touch of frost as rain clears up the as the rain clears up across the far north scotland . so monday far north of scotland. so monday morning we start off rather grey, but mild in the south. this rain actually becomes quite slow moving across parts of southern scotland, northern england, wales and northern ireland. so quite a grey wet day

to come here. but to the north of it actually it does start to cheer up and we will see some spells of sunshine, but also some blustery showers. temperatures the north cooler temperatures in the north cooler than on sunday but still mild in the south. >> looks like things are heating up. box spoilers. sponsors of weather on gb news . welcome back weather on gb news. welcome back to the camilla tominey show. >> sir robert buckland, the former justice secretary and the mp for south swindon, joins me now. thank you for coming in. sir robert, lovely to see you. look, been very difficult look, it's been a very difficult week been. yeah week hasn't it been. yeah subjected to frankly the angst and agony of the families of the victims of waldo calocane. and there are questions to be answered here in this case. my first question to you as a former justice secretary is how how was this guy free to roam the streets? we understand he was under an arrest warrant from september 2022. the police

couldn't find him, even though the victim's family say that he had a registered address in nottingham for six months before he was evicted on june the 11th, carried out the killings on june the 13th. um he wasn't taking his anti psychotic medication and apparently was being unmonitored . and while he was unmonitored. and while he was doing it, how do cases like this happen? >> yes . well, there are two >> yes. well, there are two things there. there's the nhs and the involvement of local services in monitoring this person for his mental health condition . and then the warrant condition. and then the warrant that had been issued some months before, by, by, for, for the police to, to collect him and bnng police to, to collect him and bring him in. and it does seem that from the time that he was in a secure hospital back in 2020 from his release, there doesn't seem to have been an intermediary to deal with intermediary way to deal with this individual. medication this individual. no medication given. uh, clearly unrwa had serious mental health issues, i'm afraid. i've described this person. by the time we get to june as a killing machine. yeah,

he was going to kill and hurt people. well, and it's an unutterable tragedy that two young, beautiful lives have been lost. a public servant caretaker murdered and three people having life changing injuries. all that has to add up to a very serious set of questions about why it is that individuals like this, it's not the first time there have beenin not the first time there have been in a position to kill. remember, christopher clunis all those years ago and jane zito and her amazing campaign ? and her amazing campaign? >> um, emma webber, who's barnaby webber's has barnaby webber's mother, has said she believes that rob said that she believes that rob griffin, who is the assistant chief um constable of nottinghamshire police, has got blood on his hands and should resign. it's hard to disagree with that, isn't it? >> well, look, i think mrs. webber has been incredibly dignified and reading her account out of her experiences and her husband's experiences, i brought, i think , brought tears, brought, i think, brought tears, brought, i think, brought tears, brought tears to all our eyes. look, i think that accountability is important. i think that we need to explore

precisely why it was that these this set of circumstances happened, and also why it was that the families weren't told at an earlier stage about this issue of mental health. it seems that mrs. webber has been clear about this, that that it was a complete shock to them. in november when this person is coming for in his plea hearing in the in the crown court, that the issue of diminished responsibility, which is the terms in law for mental health, defence is was raised for the first time that that amazed me frankly. >> do you know what? i'll ask you about that in just a minute, because obviously there has been the suggestion that he should have been tried murder and have been tried for murder and put a jury, rather than put before a jury, rather than being able to rely on that diminished responsibility defence. to this defence. but just back to this police chief and indeed leicestershire have leicestershire police have now faced why they faced questions about why they did calocane on a did not arrest calocane on a number of occasions. so we've got police forces here who got two police forces here who haven't acted on a man who you've described as a killing machine. surely heads need to

roll . otherwise, where is the roll. otherwise, where is the accountability in the responsibility for these sorts of cases? parents like me look at this case of barnaby and grace. you know that could be any of our children. it could be my kids in coats. that could be anybody's granddad. exactly. um surely responsibility . needs to surely responsibility. needs to be taken. and i would suggest that rob griffin, if described by one of the victims mothers as having blood on his hands, i know that sounds emotive, but she with a huge she backed it up with a huge amount of evidence of how the police had let them down. police force had let them down. in case, why shouldn't he in this case, why shouldn't he have to resign? >> um, there are processes >> um, look, there are processes for this. my frustration with the the independent police the iopc, the independent police complaints that it complaints authority, is that it does take a long time and i think we need to make sure that any complaint, any, uh, issue of accountability is dealt with quickly because this isn't just relevant for this horrendous case.it relevant for this horrendous case. it is wider application, let's put it like this. >> should he be considering his position? well, look , i think position? well, look, i think everybody concerned with the monitoring of this case needs to look at themselves and say,

could i, could i have done more? >> point >> i'm not going to point a finger at individuals. but mrs. webb of that police webb is in charge of that police force. mrs. webber's points are very powerful, think we very powerful, and i think we ignore them our peril, ignore them at our peril, because it be you. it because it could be you. it could be me in that position . could be me in that position. >> um, with regard to this diminished response ability defence, clearly defence, i mean, clearly a doctor say in court that he doctor did say in court that he would committed these would not have committed these acts he wasn't in the midst acts if he wasn't in the midst of a psychosis, as i think we can from the outside in. can look from the outside in. i wasn't in court case. wasn't in the court case. i wasn't in the court case. i wasn't following every day of the trial . but there is perhaps the trial. but there is perhaps an argument. and i think the families this, that he families made this, that he seemed have been premeditated seemed to have been premeditated in doing, that he in what he was doing, that he had of weapons on him, had a cache of weapons on him, that in the that he was waiting in the shadows some before he shadows for some hours before he pounced in the middle of the night. that would therefore night. um that would therefore negate, a negate, one would imagine, a diminished responsibility, a defence, mean, talking about defence, i mean, talking about him getting away with murder. that's because he wasn't tried for murder by a jury of 12 men and women. good. and true, who could have made an analysis of whether mad, bad or both?

whether he was mad, bad or both? yeah. i've been in these >> look, i've been in these positions myself as as a barrister, prosecuting and defending. to defending. you have to make difficult decisions the difficult decisions based on the evidence. what think has also, evidence. what i think has also, um, you know, caused a little bit of a contradiction here is, of course, the pleas of guilty to attempted murder . yes. which to attempted murder. yes. which there's no defence of the three victims who have been left with life changing injuries. there's no defence of diminished responsibility available for that. an to that. you need an intent to kill. yes. and intent kill. yes. and murderous intent has proved. he admitted has to be proved. he admitted that. you fully that. so you get that fully reflected there. but with regard to the diminished responsibility case, obviously the prosecution have to look at their evidence. there were, in the end, there were, i think, in the end, four reports from experian, consultant psychiatrist , consultant psychiatrist, clinical, uh, forensic psychiatrist who , uh, said came psychiatrist who, uh, said came to the conclusion that there was enough evidence for diminished responsibility. i'm not going to get into the warp and woof of how these decisions are made . or how these decisions are made. or in this particular case, but there is no doubt that in cases like this , um, where you've got like this, um, where you've got this limited defence available,

it is very difficult for all of us. let alone the families, to come to terms with how this person had behaved, what he'd prepared to do , and then the prepared to do, and then the outcome. and no amount of justice and no amount of the formal justice system will ever compensate for what happened here. >> although obviously the attorney general has now said that she is looking at the sentence, hasn't confirmed that she will refer it to the court of appeal judges. three judges could whether it's too could decide whether it's too lenient. you think she lenient. yes. do you think she should refer it to the court of appeal? >> i've been there many times. i was solicitor general for years. i hundreds of these cases, i did hundreds of these cases, doing myself. yes or no doing them myself. so yes or no in case. look, i haven't in this case. look, i haven't seen what i do seen the evidence. what i do know, there's question. know, there's one question. i think she be looking think that she will be looking at whether or was at is whether or not it was right for the judge. just to impose a hospital order with restrictions, rather than the opfion restrictions, rather than the option the person to option of sending the person to prison. he'd got better, prison. if he'd got better, because could have done the because he could have done the hybnd because he could have done the hybrid he could have hybrid order and he could have the 40. the section 40. >> see it now. this man is >> we see it now. this man is just going to remain in the hospital rather ever be in hospital rather than ever be in a he does. a prison. he does. >> judge does address that

>> the judge does address that in to be fair to in his remarks. to be fair to him, does address it. so the him, he does address it. so the attorney will have to look very carefully as carefully and judge this as a lawyer. she'll get advice from other lawyers, and within other senior lawyers, and within 28 to a decision. 28 days come to a decision. >> would you be minded? >> um, would you be minded? perhaps attorney perhaps to ask the attorney general house of commons general in the house of commons a about why the cps a question about why the cps pursued the manslaughter plea, rather the a murder trial ? rather than the a murder trial? is that something you should ask the attorney general? >> certainly think um, >> i certainly think that, um, the fullest explanation would be appropriate. always appropriate. i've always conscious of the fact that as a politician, it's not me to politician, it's not for me to interfere an independent interfere in an independent process. and as a former process. yes. and as a former law officer, very careful law officer, i was very careful about how i approached things as about how i approached things as a opposed to a a lawyer, as opposed to a politician, because it is important that get these important that we get these things on the evidence. >> so questions to be answered. and there seem to be a significant does once significant amount does once again way a public again point its way to a public inquiry exactly what inquiry into exactly what happened case, star has happened in this case, star has called for that. would you call for too? for that too? >> i certainly that , first >> i certainly think that, first of there's one thing that's of all, there's one thing that's happening now. the nhs to happening now. the nhs have to order independent inquiry

order an independent inquiry that's been done, so they've got to look at all the whys and wherefores of what happened with this appears that this man. if it appears that we're getting sufficient we're not getting sufficient depth breadth to this, then depth and breadth to this, then i having inquiry with i think having an inquiry with all the powers that that brings would extremely advantageous. would be extremely advantageous. what i don't is some long what i don't want is some long winded inquiry that will take years by which time other people will have been put at risk, and maybe other lives have lost. we know the problems here. know what the problems are here. camilla on camilla laws being passed on this is all making this this is all about making sure on ground we implement sure on the ground we implement a the highest degree of monitoring in order to ensure the safety of the public has care in the community failed . care in the community failed. >> i mean, it seems oxymoronic to say that it's care in the community, in this case. we know that number of psychiatric that the number of psychiatric care beds has been slashed from 52,000 back in 2001 to 24,000. now i've anecdotally, because i wrote my column about this in the telegraph yesterday, received quite a lot of correspondence from people saying situation with care saying the situation with care in the community dire. people in the community is dire. people aren't adequately in the community is dire. people aren't waszquately in the community is dire. people aren't wasquately

in the community is dire. people aren't wasqua mistake to monitored. was it a mistake to close down all of those mental institutions? >> i don't think we should go back to that. those days when we had those appalling institutions where lock people away where we just lock people away and about them, and not and forget about them, and not just mental people, but just mental health people, but autistic disabled autistic people and disabled people. way treat people. horrific way to treat individuals. know, individuals. and, you know, i campaign on that a lot. i know, however, i think if we move into a more community based a more, more community based approach , which can be really approach, which can be really good many, many people who good for many, many people who are spectrum and on that are on the spectrum and on that scale of mental health, we have are on the spectrum and on that sc.remembertal health, we have are on the spectrum and on that sc.remember there alth, we have are on the spectrum and on that sc.remember there will we have are on the spectrum and on that sc.remember there will bee have to remember there will be a small but significant number who will continue to pose a danger. okay. and that's why monitoring is so important. and just discharging into the community isn't good enough. >> quick question kemeys coming in a little later. should she replace rishi sunak? apparently a in the sunday the sun on a poll in the sunday the sun on sunday has suggested that she's got a better chance of winning the has. the election than he has. >> oh another change of >> oh look, another change of leader. i don't that would leader. i don't think that would be thing to we've be the right thing to do. we've got work to do. getting got a job of work to do. getting the economy right and sticking to that rishi sunak

to the plan that rishi sunak has. that's what we should all do if the plan isn't working has. that's what we should all do if therobert,;n't working has. that's what we should all do if therobert, that'syrking has. that's what we should all do if therobert, that's the g though, robert, that's the trouble. look, let's let's trouble. well, look, let's let's not about opinion not worry about the opinion polls look at the

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. so much more to come in the next hour. we've got kemi badenoch in the studio and the man backing a boris comeback. but first, here's the

news addison . news with ray addison. >> thanks, camilla. it's exactly 10 am. i'm ray addison in the gb newsroom. our top stories this hour. the king has spent his second night in hospital following a procedure for an enlarged prostate. the queen visited the london clinic yesterday day and spent three hours with her husband as he recuperates . king charles is recuperates. king charles is said to be doing well after the procedure. the princess of wales is also at the same hospital following abdominal surgery. charles rea, former royal correspondent for the sun, told gb news the support that the royal family are showing each other is comforting . other is comforting. >> only we don't see royals turn up at a hospital when one of them is in hospital. apart from occasionally, the queen visited prince philip in one of his longest stays in hospital, but it's nice to see that they are are behaving as they always are, like normal people. they are .

like normal people. they are. and i think this is showing, um, the way the royal family is now. and isn't it great to see a unhed and isn't it great to see a united royal family instead of the bickering that's been going on behind the scenes involving prince andrew, the united nafions prince andrew, the united nations has fired nine members of staff following allegations that they were involved in the hamas october 7th attacks on israel . israel. >> un secretary—general antonio guterres says he will hold to account any un employee involved in acts of terror. 12 staffers have been implicated so far. another is confirmed dead. the identities of two are still being clarified . gutierrez is being clarified. gutierrez is urging countries to continue supporting the un refugee agency for palestinians after nine governments, including the uk, paused funding . miri eisin is paused funding. miri eisin is from the international institute for counter—terrorism . she told for counter—terrorism. she told us it's a complicated situation . us it's a complicated situation. >> the bulk of the employees are the palestinian refugees themselves and as such it's very

challenging to understand that difference that we have there, that they participate and are part of the palestinian people inside the gaza strip and in this case, israel transferred hardcore evidence of the actual participation of 12 employees in the attack . the attack. >> the government has reportedly granted refugee status to four rwandans, despite attempting to pass a new law declaring it as a safe country. the observer newspaper says. the rwandan citizens were handed asylum after their fears of persecution were ruled to be well—founded . were ruled to be well—founded. one, a supporter of rwanda's opposition party, was granted asylum just a day after the home office told the supreme court that the country was safe. the news comes ahead of a crucial week for the rwanda bill as it gets debated in the house of lords . this is gb news across lords. this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on

digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. now let's get back to . camilla now let's get back to. camilla >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. lots more still to come in just a minute. i'll be speaking to former labour minister and chair of jewish minister and chair of the jewish labour movement, ivor caplan, following holocaust memorial day yesterday. make yesterday. will rishi sunak make it next election ? i'll be it to the next election? i'll be asking kemi badenoch that question more. david question and more. david campbell—bannerman will join me to discuss the prospect of a bofis to discuss the prospect of a boris johnson, nigel farage dream ticket. would you believe? i'll also be joined by stephanie grisham, trump's former white house press secretary? can the donald fight his way back to the white house? we'll find out that and more a little later. first of all, though, let's speak to ivor caplan. he's the former labour minister and former chair of jewish labour movement. of the jewish labour movement. lovely to see this morning, lovely to see you this morning, ivor. much indeed ivor. thank you very much indeed for me. for joining me. >> morning to forjoining me. >> morning to you, camilla. >> good morning to you, camilla. >> good morning to you, camilla. >> now, anti—semitism once

>> um, now, anti—semitism once again on the rise. we've had some quite startling statistics from the campaign for anti—semitism . we hear from anti—semitism. we hear from jewish people all the time that they're feeling safe the they're not feeling safe on the streets london beyond. streets of london and beyond. one needs to ask the question , one needs to ask the question, has this rise in anti—semitism ? has this rise in anti—semitism? i know, of course, fuelled by what's going on in middle what's going on in the middle east. from a labour east. but from a labour perspective, all started perspective, it all started with jeremy corbyn in recent times, didn't ? didn't it? >> well, it did, of course , in >> well, it did, of course, in those, uh, quite awful five year penod those, uh, quite awful five year period that corbyn was leader of the labour party. i think it's fair to say that since 2020, uh, that has been addressed by, by keir starmer and the whole team in to order try and make it clear to people that what had happened previously was unacceptable . and i think part unacceptable. and i think part of the problem today is what we see almost every saturday now in london. for people demonstrating about some sort of idea that they should be supporting , uh, they should be supporting, uh, hamas. hamas is a is a terrible

organisation . it's not even organisation. it's not even supported across the palestinian people in, in both the west bank and, and in that, that part of where they are so, so dominating. but yet at the same time, it's clear that what we have to do, unless the, the hostages who they have taken , hostages who they have taken, which is now 140 people are let free, then there cannot be any, any way of taking this matter forward . forward. >> i mean, you say that labour has cleaned up its act, and i think we can say that it partially, but at the same time, we've had only this week to hear ali, who's a labour mp , having ali, who's a labour mp, having to apologise for saying that rishi had quotes the blood rishi sunak had quotes the blood of thousands of innocent people on his hands. we've had kate osamor having to apologise for being critical of israel while at the same time signing a holocaust memorial book. we've also had the prospect of a spannen also had the prospect of a spanner. begum, another labour

mp , she had supported the mp, she had supported the palestinian solidarity campaign, which protests outside the israeli embassy . literally israeli embassy. literally within hours of the october the 7th attacks. she's also been signing holocaust memorial books. these labour mps should be stripped of the whip, shouldn't they? >> i cannot really believe that they still are in the whip of they still are in the whip of the labour party . i think this the labour party. i think this is absolutely a something they should never have done. there are ways of making sure, as a member of parliament, that you can have comment to with and within your own organisation of the labour party . those comments the labour party. those comments can be private. i i heard earlier, uh, you know, um, uh , earlier, uh, you know, um, uh, kemi talking about that in respect of the conservative party on, on laura's show. so you know, there are ways of, of heanng you know, there are ways of, of hearing what you want to know and what you want to say. and there's a sensible way of doing it. but far too many think that

they have to be public. and sometimes that's just the wrong thing to do. >> i mean, if you're going to be accusing israel genocide in accusing israel of genocide in one then signing one breath and then signing a holocaust memorial book in another, you're just giant another, you're just a giant hypocrite, you ? hypocrite, aren't you? >> to some extent , yes. is >> uh, to some extent, yes. is the answer to that . camilla, the answer to that. camilla, there's no reason at all for, uh. i mean, even in the in the un, the south africa case has really been sidelined because it didn't come to what south africa wanted, which was to stop the whole thing and, and have some form of, of a stoppage in, in, in the fighting as they say. uh, the problem is that, that, that that's not possible because you have to come to an agreement with hamas and that's not possible because hamas are not an organisation who you can debate matters with. >> no. let's move on to other matters. ivor. um, we had keir starmer in the week accusing the tories of stoking the woke wars and some on the right have said,

well, hang on a minute. weren't you the one who took the knee back in the day with angela rayner? i mean, was he wrong, in retrospect, to have taken the knee? >> uh, look, i think this is all, very trivial. and all, uh, very, very trivial. and i don't think it's something that will at the centrepiece that will be at the centrepiece of, uh, of the general election campaigns coming up pretty soon. you know, look, these are things that happen and their comments, let's just let's just move on and go from there . and go from there. >> but don't you think that the culture wars do matter to labour voters, not least in the red wall? i mean, people do get irritated with what they see as sort of institutionalised wokery , i.e. of the issuing, sort of institutionalised wokery , i.e. of the issuing , for , i.e. of the issuing, for instance, of trigger warnings, of taking the knee, of being forced kowtow to sort of forced to kowtow to sort of different trends . they're different trends. they're worried as well about the kind of wokery being able to of wokery and not being able to criticise certain things, such as obsession with as the obsession with transgenderism . transgenderism in schools. >> well, i think there are there are lots and lots of issues that

that, uh, come into that category of, of comment, if you like . but i think at category of, of comment, if you like. but i think at the heart of a general election, it's a different set of comments. and those will be the kind of comments that we've heard constantly about the state of the country, about the state of what people want in the health service, about the state of education. these are all the critical areas that have consistently been part of general election campaigns . as general election campaigns. as long as you want to go back. and i and i think that will be the case when we get there . case when we get there. >> let's talk about defence briefly , because you were once briefly, because you were once a defence minister either. and i wondered what you made of the comments that were made in the week by general sir patrick sanders britain should sanders that britain should train ready train a citizen army ready to fight war on land in the fight a war on land in the future . um, would you fight if future. um, would you fight if asked what did you make of that statement ? statement? >> well, i when i was a minister, i actually went down to iraq for 36 hours and it was pretty much , uh, being there was

pretty much, uh, being there was , was was quite an experience , i , was was quite an experience, i have to say. and something i will never, ever forget. uh, with the, with the troops. but just to be clear about this, there is no way that the united kingdom should ever consider conscription . conscription conscription. conscription hasn't worked. uh around the world. and it works just about in 3 or 4 countries. uh, israel, russia , uh, and, and north russia, uh, and, and north korea. so i don't think conscription is the answer. the answer is we need a better and bigger army. we had a better and bigger army. we had a better and bigger army. we had a better and bigger army. and in the last ten years that has been reduced by over 20,000. uh military operations operators. so we have a situation where it's just too small. now, if there is the need for our armed forces to be, uh , for our armed forces to be, uh, you know, taken, taken around the world finally, then, should that be shadow defence secretary john healey ?

john healey? >> priority grow the army , give >> priority grow the army, give it more numbers and maybe increase defence spending should labour come into power ? labour come into power? >> uh, well, that all depends on what the money is. and i think that's an interesting area of policy, both for the labour party and i think more for the general public. but at the same time , what you you have to do is time, what you you have to do is you can't actually make these decisions now because the labor party needs to actually look at the real books. okay. and then know and then know what they can and can't do . and can't do. >> ivor caplin, thank you very much indeed forjoining me this much indeed for joining me this morning. lovely to speak to you. >> thank you . >> pleasure. thank you. >> pleasure. thank you. >> well, do not move a muscle because in just a minute i'll be speaking to the business secretary, badenoch, secretary, kemi badenoch, about the tory party and the future of the tory party and whether the future leader whether she's the future leader that is talking about. that everybody is talking about. stay tuned

on gb news the people's channel, britain's news channel . welcome britain's news channel. welcome back to the camilla tominey show on gb news i'm delighted to be joined now by the secretary of state for business and trade, kemi badenoch. lovely to see you , minister. thank for coming , minister. thank you for coming in flesh. always best to in in the flesh. always best to do an interview. this is my first uh, in the gb news studio. >> i'm very honoured you've chosen me. >> thank you very much. and you're the woman of you're very much the woman of the moment because you're featuring in quite lot of featuring in quite a lot of newspaper today. we'll newspaper coverage today. we'll get that in just a minute. get on to that in just a minute. first of all, let's talk about post chairman post office chairman henry staunton. him or staunton. did you fire him or was by mutual consent?

was it by mutual consent? >> it was by mutual consent. >> uh, it was by mutual consent. uh, i explained him why uh, but i explained to him why we needed new leadership when i first became business secretary, there were three things i realised immediately. one, there were three things i realised immediately . one, that realised immediately. one, that we needed to get money out of the door immediately. yes uh, the door immediately. yes uh, the second was just making sure that it was done properly that it was all done properly and fairly and the third, just looking at the post office, its governance, how run . it's governance, how it's run. it's a very odd organisation . it's in very odd organisation. it's in the public sector, but not quite. and it fulfils a unique role. and they've been having difficulties on the board. and when i looked at it, i decided that given everything that's happened, given the renewed interest the new interest in interest or the new interest in some cases into the horizon scandal, we just needed someone different. >> when you say about getting that money out of the door, i note that alan mr bates, note that alan bates, mr bates, who's obviously been the champion the victims champion of all of the victims in written to your in this, has written to your colleague kevin hollinrake, saying, we need this compensation expedited as compensation to be expedited as soon possible. are you going soon as possible. are you going to meet that august 2024 deadune? to meet that august 2024 deadline? do you think , to

deadline? do you think, to compensate everybody? >> so the intention is if i could get it all out tomorrow, i would do so. uh, we have not set a deadline because we don't want to create a hostage to fortune. our priority is looking after all those people who have been wronged . and kevin hollinrake wronged. and kevin hollinrake has been a brilliant and brilliant minister. he was doing the job before i became business secretary. and he told me everything. i just trusted everything. and i just trusted him. i said, you know what you're doing? on top of you're doing? you're on top of all detail. let me know what all the detail. let me know what senior approval but he senior approval you need. but he has to alan bates on has spoken to alan bates on multiple occasions . unlike, uh, multiple occasions. unlike, uh, lib dem ministers. uh ed davey. who told him told him to go away. we are going to do everything we can. we want people to trust us that there is a here that really cares , a team here that really cares, but they can't be too much but they can't be left too much longer. delayed is justice >> no justice delayed is justice applied. absolutely. and at the moment it seems like very few of them have actually got that full amount compensation. amount of planned compensation. >> have given about two >> so we have given about two thirds the people who who thirds of the people who who should have got compensation .

should have got compensation. we've we've got the money, uh, the, the difficulty area has been around the convictions . we been around the convictions. we wanted to see convictions overturned. we are now pushing that through. the legal precedent is new. uh, that was an argument that was very difficult. but we finally won it. so now that we've got that, uh, we've got the agreement there, there will be a process and we're going to move as quickly and swiftly as we can. i've tasked officials to work on it. it's all hands on deck to get that cash out. >> there's many subjects to >> there's so many subjects to ask let's just ask you about, so let's just move the retained eu law move on to the retained eu law bill, sometimes bill, because sometimes i mention to of the mention your name to some of the righties, of the kind of righties, some of the kind of maastricht lot in your party, and they kind of roll their eyes and they kind of roll their eyes and haven't done and say that you haven't done enough eu laws. how enough to scrap eu laws. how many laws actually been scrapped? >> uh, about 2000 have been revoked reformed. so out of revoked or reformed. so out of how many? >> uh, probably out of about 4 or 5000, but less than half. >> yes, but we have to remember, just because something was done >> yes, but we have to remember, just bwe use something was done >> yes, but we have to remember, just bwe were)mething was done >> yes, but we have to remember, just bwe were in ething was done >> yes, but we have to remember, just bwe were in the ng was done >> yes, but we have to remember, just bwe were in the eu nas done >> yes, but we have to remember, just bwe were in the eu doesn'ta while we were in the eu doesn't mean it's bad. i mean, if there's eu i mean, i'm

there's an eu law, i mean, i'm just, you know, just speaking hypothetically, if there's eu hypothetically, if there's an eu law you know, we don't law that says you know, we don't want create want you have to create a product this way so that children don't joke. i'm not going to scrap it just because it the eu. there it came from the eu. so there are many things that were fine. the reason why we left wasn't just remove everything . uh, just to remove everything. uh, that being that was eu. it was about being able choose what we able to pick and choose what we want that's what, uh, want to do. and that's what, uh, that's what over 2000 that we have done, either revoked or have done, uh, either revoked or reformed , uh, relate to. and one reformed, uh, relate to. and one of the things that i don't think a of people understand is a lot of people understand is that you want to that sometimes if you want to change need change something, you need to keep first edit it, keep it first and then edit it, rather than just delete it, because then you have to start from people who from scratch. so people who don't that process don't understand that process just a big bonfire. the just wanted a big bonfire. the big change i uh, which , big change i made, uh, which, you know, the people you mentioned were upset about was about, removing the bonfire about, uh, removing the bonfire of regulations making it transparent. they just wanted everything to go. let's not worry about what they were. i think people should know what we're doing. made it clear we're doing. so i made it clear this is all that's been found so

far. it wouldn't have mattered whether not. whether i changed that or not. the number of eu laws would the same number of eu laws would have gone. uh, we've added a few more since then, and we're doing a good what people a really good job. what people need understand is that there need to understand is that there is plan on, uh, to take is a plan on, uh, to take advantage of brexit. that is what doing . i wasn't an mp what we're doing. i wasn't an mp when we voted to leave the eu , when we voted to leave the eu, and one of the things i found shocking becoming an mp was all the arguments we were having going round and round, because the plan wasn't there. rishi's got it's very clear it's got a plan. it's very clear it's not going to be everything on day one. but every day there will be something new that we find make better. find that we can make better. and because the and that's because of the changes most changes we made most importantly, ending the oversight of the european court of justice, not the other one. the court of justice that now has no , uh, interpretive has no, uh, interpretive oversight of what we do. what about the other one? >> britain, the echr i mean, there's been lots of calls for us to leave. what do you think? >> uh, i think a lot of the calls that people are making are response to what we're seeing on

immigration. people are exploiting our country. they think that they can do what they like. and lefty lawyer from somewhere help them somewhere is going to help them out them to stay here. out and help them to stay here. and they usually use the human rights act, which is on rights act, which is based on the european human the european court of human rights. i say people rights. and what i say to people is this something that is that this is something that we not ruled out. it's not we have not ruled out. it's not the first thing that we want to do. we other plans first, do. we have other plans first, because are many good because there are many good things are the human things that are in the human rights act and there are many rights we have, which we rights which we have, which we don't just, uh, make go don't want to just, uh, make go away. we have to think about a plan to keep what's good and remove bad. we remove what's what's bad. so we have very have to think about it very carefully. but i wouldn't rule it out. but we're not there yet. >> and when comes legal >> and when it comes to legal migration, because obviously a lot's been said about stopping the mean, these levels the boats. i mean, these levels that we're currently seeing, you know, nearly, know, 700, 800,000 nearly, that's it? that's too high, isn't it? i mean, like to see mean, would you like to see a cap in future on legal migration into this country? >> is absolutely too >> uh, it is absolutely too high. i was i'm not going to lie, camilla. i was astounded when figures. and it when i saw those figures. and it is, uh, it is one of the things

that i think make feel that i think make people feel less trusting of less trust. trusting of politicians, said politicians, because we said that going to control that we were going to control immigration. we've immigration. i think that we've always a cap , uh, always talked about a cap, uh, when cameron was prime when david cameron was prime minister used to about minister he used to talk about net being in the tens net migration, being in the tens of would like to of thousands. would you like to see return that? um, i so see return to that? um, i so what? i don't to do is set what? i don't want to do is set a figure because as business secretary, i see the other side of it. people demanding, people demanding. >> a figure isn't set, >> think if a figure isn't set, then is never met. then a figure is never met. >> this is so. that is right. but i'm not the person set but i'm not the person to set that to be the that figure. it has to be the home secretary, and it has to be given home secretary to perhaps put it, i don't know, two 200,000. regular 200,000. i i have regular conversations the, with the conversations with the, with the home secretary, but getting fixated figure, fixated on a particular figure, if say 200,000 people say, if you say 200,000 people say, well, 195 or, and well, why not 195 or, and i don't want us to have that conversation 700,000 was too high. and one of the reasons why i think that, um, we ended up there was because there was so much the government much distracting the government of day, know , boris of the day, you know, boris johnson was prime minister then. every time he was at the despatch people were asking despatch box, people were asking him questions partygate.

him questions about partygate. they should have been asking him questions immigration. and questions about immigration. and it's because we spend lot of it's because we spend a lot of time on trivia. >> was asleep at the >> johnson was asleep at the wheel immigration. wheel on immigration. >> distract and he was >> i said, distract and he was in charge at that time. the person fixing it wasn't person who's fixing it wasn't he? have to he? well well, he'll have to speak himself. the person speak for himself. the person who cracking on it is who is cracking down on it is rishi okay, that's. and rishi sunak. okay, that's. and that's i you to that's what i want you to remember, borne in the in remember, borne out in the in the numbers yet. no, but those numbers that come out were numbers that have come out were under okay. we will see. under boris. okay. we will see. we what the numbers we will see what the numbers are reduction. we will see what the numbers are reductio we. >> will we. >> will we. >> yes. we'll yeah i think >> yes. we'll see. yeah i think that will i think that we will. >> another, um, criticism that's been made of your department is the with tata steel, been made of your department is thesomebody with tata steel, been made of your department is thesomebody put tata steel, been made of your department is thesomebody put itata steel, been made of your department is thesomebody put it to steel, been made of your department is thesomebody put it to me,el, been made of your department is thesomebody put it to me, why as somebody put it to me, why did department give them did your department give them a half a billion with no strings attached? and now we've seen these closed attached? and now we've seen these of closed attached? and now we've seen these of time. closed ahead of time. >> well, we actually announced this. and the whole in this. and the whole plan in september, very september, so i was very surprised i saw the unions surprised when i saw the unions coming out and labour being opportunistic, jumping on, on this. know exactly what the this. they know exactly what the plan is. tata steel is losing £1.5 million a day. steel is not a profitable industry , uh,

a profitable industry, uh, because the chinese are over supplying . so we need to think supplying. so we need to think about how we run that industry. if they walk away, we'll have to spend £2 billion and about 20,000 people will lose. all you know will lose their jobs. 8000in the company, probably another 12,000 or more in the supply chain. so rather than have that, we gave them some money. they're still going to spend 1.5 billion investing in portugal. but they're going to turn area around, regenerate turn the area around, regenerate . some will go because the . some jobs will go because the new type of furnaces don't aren't going to need those skills. but we've saved 5000 jobs. so it isn't about the job losses. it's about the job saved. it would have been this 5000 or 4 zero. and that's that's that's the real story. and it's so annoying when you see labour who've got no plan. they've got no plan at all talking about, oh 28 billion and we're just going to do a green transition. they don't have any idea how they would do this. we're the ones who've got a plan and we're we're sticking to it and we're we're sticking to it and going to work. and and it is going to work. and it'll deliver the people of

it'll deliver for the people of south wales. >> move on to a different >> let's move on to a different topic entirely transgenderism in schools. familiar, schools. you'll be familiar, because schools. you'll be familiar, be

carrots. every single carrots. uh for every single meal need to be able to allow meal we need to be able to allow children be children without children to be children without out a lot of out pandering to a lot of ideology that has no place, certainly not. not in primary school. >> and what do you say to the accusation that's been made of you many, many times that you're a terf, that you're a transphobic person, that you're not standing for the rights, not standing up for the rights, not standing up for the rights, not just of, you people not just of, you know, people who don't as different who don't identify as different genders, of transgender people. >> well, that they're >> well, the fact that they're resorting to abuse rather than making argument what making the argument shows what those we those those people are like. we want sure that genuine want to make sure that genuine trans people are able to live their lives with dignity and in privacy and for, you know, to have a community be kind to them. what is happening is you have a lot of other people with a different agenda to piggybacking it, and, a different agenda to piggybacking it, and, and, piggybacking on it, and, and, and making life more and actually making life more difficult those genuine difficult for those genuine trans people. we to be able trans people. we need to be able to explain what it means. we didn't have this problem 20 years when speak to years ago. and when i speak to people been transgender people who have been transgender for decades, they say that our lives were until people lives were fine until people decided to take us up as a cause

i >> -- >> uh, do lam >> uh, do you think it's been a trend, particularly among younger people, to identify as a different gender there? >> there's certainly social contagion. so i have come across cases where some children feel that they're being bullied and they need a label to protect themselves. and they they feel that if they if they say they're trans, then people will treat them differently. so we should be dealing with the underlying cause bullying. uh, we see a lot of co—morbidities that means other, being other, other issues being present as well as children claiming that they're gender questioning, claiming that they're gender questioning , such claiming that they're gender questioning, such as being autistic, for example . there's a autistic, for example. there's a lot that's going on in this space and it is still quite new. and what we shouldn't be doing is putting children on a pathway to making irreversible decisions. because if you start telling a four year old that they're girl, not a boy, they're a girl, not a boy, they're a girl, not a boy, they're going to take that with them they're and, uh, possibly. >> would you like to puberty >> would you like to see puberty blockers stopped? um, being prescribed unless , prescribed to children unless, you know, perhaps they're intersex or they're medical intersex or they're a medical explanations would you

explanations for it. would you rather not see puberty blockers prescribed? >> i don't think they should be the first port of call. if somebody is presenting as gender questioning . so there is an questioning. so there is an affirmation, uh, pathway where someone comes to you and says there are different, there are different gender. and you immediately start giving them drugs should not be drugs that should not be happening. blockers happening. puberty blockers actually good actually have some very good uses.i actually have some very good uses. i know of case of a five uses. i know of a case of a five year old boy who was starting puberty just and medical cases. yes, that's what that's what it's there for. it shouldn't be there uh, for lifestyle there for, uh, for lifestyle presentation , varne or anything presentation, varne or anything like that. this is a very serious thing. is . it like that. this is a very serious thing. is. it is a serious thing. it is. it is a medical. it something that medical. it is something that requires medical diagnosis, gender dysphoria. and we should treat that, not as a treat it like that, not as a social, uh, a social change in and of itself. >> um, i know that you're going to say that you're backing the prime that of prime minister and that all of this talk leadership is for this talk of leadership is for the but the same time, the birds. but at the same time, i need to address some of the i do need to address some of the stories have emerged in stories that have emerged in papers in recent times. so, first of um, somebody first of all, um, somebody quoted somebody quoting

quoted somebody as quoting you in in the in a piece by andrew marr in the new statesman suggesting that you want to go for the you didn't want to go for the leadership now because, quote, you didn't want to go for the leachavep now because, quote, you didn't want to go for the leachavep n0\rishiause, quote, you didn't want to go for the leachavep n0\rishi has, quote, you didn't want to go for the leachavep n0\rishi has got ote, you have said rishi has got to own defeat. is that something you've own defeat. is that something you no. and also the fact that we >> no. and also the fact that we can't even say who said these things. it's always anonymous things. it's always an anonymous person said they overheard someone about someone else talking about these things and, uh, with the people who are causing trouble when they're asked, they say, oh, nothing to do with us. must nothing to do with us. it must be pointing it's be kemi pointing that it's distraction tactics. i do support the prime minister if people to know whether or people want to know whether or not him, should not i support him, they should look actions. liz look at my actions. when liz truss , uh, resigned the truss, uh, resigned from the premiership, the first thing i did was come out and say rishi should be prime minister and should be the prime minister and i reasons i have backed i gave the reasons i have backed him consistently every time because how difficult his because i know how difficult his job i see him working so job is. i see him working so hard. no one works than hard. no one works harder than that man he is. >> then people say you're more charismatic, you're clearer in an ideological perspective on what you're saying. you've been really clear in this interview what you're saying. you've been realimorningn this interview what you're saying. you've been realimorningn thiractually�*w this morning that actually there's polling the sun there's even polling in the sun on sunday today to suggest that if in charge the

if you were in charge of the party, you might be more likely to win the next general election. that must be compelling take a kind of compelling if you take a kind of for country view, opposed for the country view, as opposed to party view. to for the party view. >> it isn't compelling >> no, it isn't compelling because is not popularity because this is not a popularity contest. it is not about is this we are not celebrities . there is we are not celebrities. there is a job to be done and he can do that job. and also i think it's really important that the public see that when somebody is in place as prime minister, we don't disposing them. don't just keep disposing them. oh, the polls don't look so great. well, try somebody great. well, let's try somebody else serious . that great. well, let's try somebody else serious. that is else that's not serious. that is not how would know not serious. how would i know that be disposed of? that i wouldn't be disposed of? uh a couple of weeks later, you read the language that people use. people about use. people talking about installing prime installing kemi as prime minister, like i'm instead of windows these people don't talk windows. these people don't talk to me. don't talk to me. to me. they don't talk to me. but the time, it must be but at the same time, it must be quite flattering to yourself quite flattering to see yourself at the top the grassroots at the top of the grassroots poll comic con their poll on comic con home as their favourite to replace him. >> time ever come. i >> should the time ever come. i mean, presumably you at mean, presumably you look at that occasion, your that poll on occasion, or your advisers do. >> double edged sword. so >> it's a double edged sword. so yes, i do look at it. it's nice,

of course. of course we of course we see it. but when you have you also have have that, you also have a target on your back. lots of people decide, well, that's people decide, oh, well, that's the we need to take the person that we need to take out or that's the person who we can blame. and so on. well, that's it's very distracting for me doing my job as business secretary which i actually love. this great job. this is a great job. >> is of interest to the gb >> this is of interest to the gb news audience. worth me news audience. so it's worth me asking questions while asking you these questions while i privilege of your i have the privilege of your company um, the company in the studio. um, the other line on you from other attack line on you from colleagues is that you are too close gove and bias close to michael gove and bias association. smith , who association. dougie smith, who of course has been pinpointed by nadine dorries as the man at the centre of the plot to unseat bofis centre of the plot to unseat boris johnson. are you close to michael gove and dougie smith? are you too close, in fact? >> all right, so i will start. there are several things i need to say one, almost everything in nadine's book. pardon me, almost everything in nadine dorries bookis everything in nadine dorries book is nonsense. it is, i hear it. one of my constituents bought the book and told me, i

know this isn't true because i was there at your selection. what is described there as nonsense you are the chosen nonsense that you are the chosen one. there somebody from one. there was somebody from number all knew was the number 10. we all knew was the person we were expected to pick. so there are a lot of lies there. do i know michael gove? yes. he was my secretary of state. worked very well together. >> people say he's very close adviser of yours. this is. listen of course is listen to him. of course this is what they say. >> do you know why they say it? because look me and they because they look at me and they look what i and they look at what i say, and they think, oh, she couldn't possibly have of that herself. have thought of that herself. some somewhere must some man from somewhere must have her. have it have put her. must have put it in well, there really in her brain. well, there really saying. i've had this from saying. and i've had this from labour who claim labour mps as well, who claim that speeches i about that the speeches i make about race uh, attacking black race and, uh, attacking black lives matter, the no black person a white person would say that a white person would say that a white person written that person must have written that speech for her. this is nonsense. they're doing nonsense. what they're doing is really insulting my really insulting me and my intelligence that i couldn't possibly decisions possibly be making decisions without these. people without these. these people telling michael telling me what to do. michael gove my secretary of state. gove is my secretary of state. we were good friends, we were very good friends, slightly now. we still slightly less so now. we still have good professional have a good professional working relationship. dougie relationship. i know dougie smith's wife, munira, well.

smith's wife, munira, very well. she mayor for london she was deputy mayor for london under johnson was she was deputy mayor for london unyassemblyohnson was she was deputy mayor for london unyassembly member. was she was deputy mayor for london unyassembly member. so was she was deputy mayor for london unyassembly member. so these are an assembly member. so these are people you know, and just people that you know, and just because, you people doesn't because, you know people doesn't mean they're mean that they're they're controlling all controlling you. it is all nonsense. glad nonsense. and i'm really glad that because it gives that you asked because it gives me opportunity to your me an opportunity to tell your viewers that it is nonsense. >> then at the same time, >> but then at the same time, you know, clarke's you know, simon clarke's intervention not intervention in the week. not helpful, not helpful. i called him helpful. what's wrong him out is helpful. what's wrong with conservatives? with the conservatives? why can't along? can't they all just get along? we well, we there 350 of us. >> us. >> but if you have a one nation group at the throats of the so—called five families, the rwanda bill, no, they're not people. to do what people. people have to do what is in their conscience and actually , what is really actually, what is really interesting is that having disagreements about, uh, what we should do on a bill is seen as a sign of a party infighting, when actually we're thinking people have different views. we have a vote, and the collective view is presented . people should be more presented. people should be more worried about labour. they haven't got a plan. they don't know they want do know what they want to do because doesn't because they're quiet doesn't mean all getting mean that they're all getting along they're minds are

along because they're minds are empty. are empty party empty. they are an empty party protagonist, apparently. empty. they are an empty party proon)nist, apparently. empty. they are an empty party proon stoking parently. wars. >> on stoking the woke wars. what's response to that? what's your response to that? >> keir starmer? >> who's that? keir starmer? yes. man who took yes. uh, this is a man who took the knee for black matter. the knee for black lives matter. of course shouldn't have done of course he shouldn't have done it was a passing fad. it was utterly there are utterly ridiculous. there are all false statistics utterly ridiculous. there are all how false statistics utterly ridiculous. there are all how racist statistics utterly ridiculous. there are all how racist thisistics utterly ridiculous. there are all how racist this country about how racist this country is. it isn't. because if it was, i wouldn't be sitting here as business secretary talking to you certainly wouldn't you and we certainly wouldn't have rishi sunak as prime minister who will minister this is a man who will bend to anything that comes along who is blm? the is blm. the we're doing now, the thing we're doing now, let's all knee. everybody all take the knee. everybody and that will as prime that is what he will do as prime minister people should be warned. would also to warned. and i would say also to your viewers, those of them who are thinking about voting reform, get reform, you vote reform, you get a landslide. okay. yeah a labour landslide. okay. yeah >> note, as we can't >> on that note, as we can't turn this into a party political broadcast. you. so but broadcast. thank you. so but thank you for your time thank you so much for your time on a sunday morning. lovely to see the first on gb see you for the first time on gb news. you, thank you kemi. see you for the first time on gb neinext you, thank you kemi. see you for the first time on gb neinext is you, thank you kemi. see you for the first time on gb neinext is david , thank you kemi. up next is david campbell—bannerman, the chairman of conservative democratic of the conservative democratic organisation. is organisation. what exactly is this wing splinter this new right wing splinter group that kemi suggests doesn't

suggest that the tories are all at each other's throats, but are they? there a secret plan to they? is there a secret plan to bnng they? is there a secret plan to bring boris will be bring back boris or will be revealed next? just .

you company right through until 7:00. this evening. gb news the people's . channel. people's. channel. >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. lovely to have your company here on a sunday on gb news. don't forget that later on i'm going to speaking to a

on i'm going to be speaking to a trump to get their take trump expert to get their take on whether can make a on whether he can make a tremendous to white tremendous return to the white house. but first, i'm joined in the by david the studio by david campbell—bannerman. call campbell—bannerman. i call him dcb, short, as everyone dcb, just for short, as everyone does conservative does. he's a former conservative mep and chairman of the conservative democratic organisation dcb . lovely to see organisation dcb. lovely to see you this morning. now tell us, um, did you catch kemi badenoch interview just then? did you catch. yeah a little bit. you find her impressive. what do you think about her? >> i think, i mean, i think kemi is very gutsy and she's doing a great job on the trade front. i mean, i suppose the question that you ask is like control that you ask is like the control of gove control of michael gove alleged control of michael gove alleged control of being very of michael gove and being very close. resigned as head of close. she resigned as head of candidates conservative candidates for conservative party 2019. so party to back him in 2019. so why is this alliance with michael gove so problematic for so many tories ? i, i think a lot so many tories? i, i think a lot of tory mps don't trust mr gove , of tory mps don't trust mr gove, i'm afraid, although mr gove is not here to defend himself. >> no he's not. such allegations and he has been a great minister and he has been a great minister and trust him because of the knifing presumably. knifing of boris, presumably. >> well, that all. that's

>> well, that was all. that's all part of it. but it's a complex picture. like like all of these things are. but all i can is that that is an issue can say is that that is an issue that has been raised with me . that has been raised with me. >> okay. so that's an >> all right. okay. so that's an issue. closeness gove issue. her closeness to gove potentially. yeah. do you agree with former minister with one former cabinet minister who said this week we know rishi is absolutely useless, but replacing him would be an replacing him now would be an extraordinary sabotage. >> ha! i don't agree actually. i mean, i think there's time to turn things around and with a new leader. yes, i do . i mean, new leader. yes, i do. i mean, remember boris took over in june 2019. i know, but are you still lighting a candle for boris johnson? >> is johnson? >>isthb johnson? >> is this realistic? it's not about boris. >> i mean, boris could be part of a team. by the way. i think i would make him vice chairman if he wants it to campaign in the red wall as part of a new leadership team. but he's not an mp. it's really realistic to mp. it's not really realistic to bnng mp. it's not really realistic to bring him back at this point. >> who would head a >> okay, so who would head up a new leadership then? if new leadership team then? if not? well i look suella braverman. >> i think she has been brave in the country. is she? well,

remember, maggie thatcher wasn't very she says remember, maggie thatcher wasn't verof she says remember, maggie thatcher wasn't verof gutsy she says remember, maggie thatcher wasn't verof gutsy things. she says lot of gutsy things. >> suella the next thatcher. i mean, actually people today in the papers have cited kemi as being thatcher. she's being the next thatcher. she's very ideologically . very clear ideologically. >> know, she's >> she, she, you know, she's black and white. she makes some, you decisions. kemi, you know, tough decisions. kemi, which admire . and there is which i do admire. and there is that characteristic isn't suella just marmite uh, to some just so marmite uh, to some extent , as just so marmite uh, to some extent, as again as thatcher was . but i mean also jacob pretty patel, you know, there's a number of yes, jacob rees—mogg. >> jacob goes down well on the council of states of the uk, funnily enough . funnily enough. >> i think he does in a kind of farage he's quite popular farage way. he's quite popular with builders, decorators , with with builders, decorators, with taxi drivers, you know , um, i taxi drivers, you know, um, i mean, maybe let's not write him off on gb news, but not necessarily as prime minister. well well, i think much as i'm fond of , to be honest, you know, fond of, to be honest, you know, i believe in the strength of polling. kind of polling. you have to kind of look at the polling and see how he plays. speaking of polling, i'm your response he plays. speaking of polling, i'nthis. your response to this. >> we have that poll in the telegraph, which yougov telegraph, which was a yougov

poll that was carried out an poll that was carried out by an organisation the organisation called the conservative alliance. organisation called the conservatihas alliance. organisation called the conservatihas been alliance. organisation called the conservatihas been linked ce. organisation called the conservatihas been linked to now, this has been linked to peter cruddas, who is a donor of the cdo. peter cruddas, who is a donor of the cd0. the organisation of which you're chairman. so is there a link up with the conservative britain alliance? who are these people? >> made it clear. asked >> no, he made it clear. i asked him directly . >> no, he made it clear. i asked him directly. he said it's nothing to with him and he nothing to do with him and he hasn't put any money in. so it's not well, people are not him. well, people are thrashing around to try and find out. number thrash around out. number 10 thrash around trying out . trying to find out. >> will try is a former rishi sunak adviser who's gone across to organisation. to this organisation. ian i know seems want unseat the seems to want to unseat the prime minister. who else might be ? be involved? >> there are theories >> well, there are some theories about a group of advisers, former advisers being mentioned. i don't know if dominic cummings is in there. i'm not saying i'm not saying he is or not, but he is a former adviser. lord frost has been linked to this polling . has been linked to this polling. >> so, i mean, is lord frost somebody that you would as somebody that you would back as a leader? a future leader? >> i think i know him very well, but but, but he's i don't think he wrote you know, i don't think

he's running this outfit. i think he just wrote the op ed that went with it actually . that went with it actually. really commenting on the poll . really commenting on the poll. um, it's not his outfit. i have discussed it briefly with him . discussed it briefly with him. um, no, it's a mystery , um, no, it's a mystery, actually, but there may be some disaffected donors out there . disaffected donors out there. there's quite a few, i'm afraid at the moment. uh, behind it. but i think the message is very clear. this poll is seven times normal size of a poll, and it says we're heading for a cliff . says we're heading for a cliff. you know, it's catastrophe time. and, you know, i praise simon clarke for being brave enough to say that he made it. >> i do. he didn't embarrass himself a bit last week. i mean, maybe he wanted to take others over the top and he just looked like lone no it's not. >> he didn't do it for that point of view. it's i think this is a bit like a volcano. there's an awful lot going on underneath the and you a few the surface. and you get a few explosions here there, like explosions here and there, like the clarke article, the simon clarke article, which is didn't is unexpected. and i didn't expect um, this not expect that. um, is this not just because you don't really like just because you don't really uke sunak just because you don't really like sunak and never like rishi sunak and you never wanted him to be prime minister

because he wasn't the grassroots choice. not personal >> it's not personal to him. >> it's not personal to him. >> ceos is that no >> i mean, ceos view is that no one elected him. i mean, the members didn't elect him and mps didn't him. um, it was didn't elect him. um, so it was a an appointment, really. a bit of an appointment, really. and that help when it and that doesn't help when it comes these storms. know, comes to these storms. you know, you roots . it's not you have shallow roots. it's not personal to him. there is a lack of democracy by mps, but obviously it didn't go to the country, so to speak. >> it didn't go the >> it didn't go to the membership at that point. for the time round, after the second time round, after he lost but yeah, lost to liz truss. but yeah, i mean, other argument, of mean, the other argument, of course, is, is that, yes, the tories are, according to the pollsters, certain pollsters, facing almost certain electoral even electoral defeat, maybe even such electoral drubbing such a bad electoral drubbing that we go back to the days of 1997 therefore, if you 1997 and therefore, if you listen to the campaign director isaac levido , it's quite isaac levido, it's quite compelling for him to say, well, it's a case of unite or die and there's the cd0, your group, and there's the cd0, your group, and there's all these caucuses there's all these other caucuses trying unseat the prime trying to unseat the prime minister when the minister at a time when the party's already vulnerable. you might actually be pushing it further extinction. further towards extinction. >> don't think so , because >> i don't think so, because we've be realistic. these we've got to be realistic. these are not rogue polls. you know,

we're stuck on 20. we're 24% we're now stuck on 20. we're 24% roughly behind labour. um, this is wipe out territory. and of course, reform form has gone up four times since boris was in power. >> but aren't you also making that worse then? i mean, you're propelling reform forward. you're effectively just being a wrecker here. i mean, no, you know, your your money on suella who else is? >> well, suella and others, you know, there's a number of who else but. well, as say, jacob else but. well, as i say, jacob and pretty i think more centre right? no, i tell you what, the way look at it, i'm way i look at it, i'm a marketing man. we are missing conservative . they're conservative voters. they're on strike. look at those last strike. you look at those last four by elections , it wasn't a four by elections, it wasn't a swing to labour. one of them actually went against labour. mid i think was. but you mid beds i think it was. but you had missing tories and had 20,000 missing tories and every single one of those by action. well, not apathy. i think was a conservatives think it was a conservatives show their disapproval by not turning up right now . if you had turning up right now. if you had the right leader that appealed to that sensibility, with the right policies . to that sensibility, with the right policies. i mean, even when sunak and hunt talk about

cutting , they're not now cutting taxes, they're not now believed because for months ago they were saying it wasn't possible. >> so let's see what's put in the budget. final question that helps the best people to helps are the best people to lead organisation the lead this organisation on the right, right. sort of right, right. um, a sort of dream ticket of boris johnson and nigel farage. >> i'd like to see nigel come back to the conservative party. he was beckenham conservatives and he is tory. he's and he is a tory. he's a thatcherite tory. >> um, him and boris teaming up be an ideal situation for people in the city? >> well, the polls they >> well, the polls show they would. boris isn't an mp , would. but boris isn't an mp, nigel. not an mp either. but so i think you can get them involved. i think what i'd like to see is a strong eurosceptic team that wins back the brexit voters that have gone missing. >> okay, so you're going to carry on the fight against the prime minister effectively. that's what i'm getting from you this morning. >> well, i'm afraid so. it's not a pretty thing to do. but actually for the good the actually for the good of the country and party, we do not country and the party, we do not want ten years labour. that's want ten years of labour. that's an disaster. and an utter disaster. and that's

where heading. and where we're heading. and i remember that as candidate in remember that as a candidate in 2001, got one net tory mp gain. >> david campbell—bannerman, thank you very much indeed for joining me morning. well, thank you very much indeed for joinin going morning. well, thank you very much indeed for joinin going to morning. well, thank you very much indeed for joinin going to be orning. well, thank you very much indeed for joinin going to be speakingall, thank you very much indeed for joinin going to be speaking about we're going to be speaking about trump just moment. but trump in just a moment. but first, the weather. first, here's the weather. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news . news. >> good morning. welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast i'm craig snell. we're looking ahead to today. i'm craig snell. we're looking ahead to today . most of us ahead to today. most of us should see some sunshine at times and for all it will be feeling very mild. so we start the day actually with a touch of frost in the east. but here we'll see bright skies from the word go elsewhere. a fair amount of cloud around maybe the of cloud around and maybe the odd and spot of rain. but odd spit and spot of rain. but most of this cloud will tend to break up a little bit as we go into the afternoon, allowing some but up some spells of sunshine, but up towards northern towards parts of northern ireland, scotland we ireland, western scotland we will see this band of move will see this band of rain move in afternoon, in during the afternoon, and that accompanied by some that will be accompanied by some very with the

very strong winds. but with the winds coming in from south, winds coming in from the south, it's be a very mild it's going to be a very mild day. actually, parts day. actually, some parts of northern wales highs northern wales could see highs reaching 17 degrees into reaching 16 to 17 degrees into the evening . the rain to slowly the evening. the rain to slowly moves its way south eastwards the evening. the rain to slowly moves partsay south eastwards the evening. the rain to slowly moves parts of south eastwards the evening. the rain to slowly moves parts of scotland twards the evening. the rain to slowly moves parts of scotland and is across parts of scotland and eventually moving into northern northern england and the far northern england and the far north of wales later on in the night. but to the south of it it remains but rather cloudy, remains mild but rather cloudy, could see touch of frost could just see a touch of frost as rain clears up across the as the rain clears up across the far north of scotland . so monday far north of scotland. so monday morning we start off rather grey but mild in the south. this rain actually becomes quite slow moving across parts of southern scotland, northern england , scotland, northern england, wales and northern ireland. so quite a grey wet day to come here. but to the north of it actually it does start to cheer up and we will see some spells actually it does start to cheer upsunshine,rill see some spells actually it does start to cheer upsunshine, but;ee some spells actually it does start to cheer upsunshine, but also>me spells actually it does start to cheer upsunshine, but also some)ells of sunshine, but also some blustery showers. temperatures in north cooler than on in the north cooler than on sunday, but still mild in the south. >> looks like things are heating up. boxed boilers. sponsors of weather on gb news .

weather on gb news. >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. well after my interview with kemi badenoch earlier, lots of you have been getting in touch. so let's see what saying. graham says what you're saying. graham says badenoch that chair badenoch saying that the chair of office was removed of the post office was removed by consent is so weak he by mutual consent is so weak he should have been sacked on the spot with pension. jackie spot with no pension. jackie says badenoch sounds like says kemi badenoch sounds like she excuses to stay in she is making excuses to stay in the eu or she was a brexiteer, so i'm not sure that quite holds water. jan from runcorn, says kemi badenoch on gb news this morning is exceptional. straight talking, straight answers so refreshing . kemi for future refreshing. kemi for future leader of the conservative party please great stuff. all right, well we're going to have her glad to have her in the studio and glad to have more ministers in the studio as time goes on. i think moving to westminster has been move for this been a great move for this particular show, because it means people means we're seeing more people in i'm joined now by in the flesh. i'm joined now by greg chair of greg swensen, chair of the republicans overseas uk. greg, we're here to talk about donald trump the latest with the trump and the latest with the donald this

donald with regard to this litigate litigation he's litigate litigation case. he's lost against e jean lost this case against e jean carroll carroll, he had carroll carroll, who he had accused lying . he's now down accused of lying. he's now down we think, $83.3 million. my question is , greg, does this question is, greg, does this case and some of the other litigation that's going on actually stand a chance of stopping him getting to the white house >> i don't think so. camilla it's really helped him, if anything, in the last nine months or so, you've seen a huge upfick months or so, you've seen a huge uptick for trump's numbers. president trump's numbers after the first indictment, the alvin bragg indictment, you know, he went up 15 points. most of that came from ron desantis. so that's a 30 point swing from the indictments. i think this one will probably help him more in the nomination. the problem is what it does in a general election, that's yet be election, and that's yet to be seen election, and that's yet to be seei if some states say >> i mean, if some states say no, he can't stand here, that poses a significant and unprecedented problem. doesn't it? >> yeah, absolutely it does. and you know, look, this is this is the democrats claiming to want to preserve democracy by by

violating the constitution and violating the constitution and violating democratic norms. so it's kind of ironic that those attempts to block him from the ballot, first of all, they're going to fail. but they they also help him in terms of the nomination support that he's getting, because, again, it just shows weaponization of the shows the weaponization of the system by the democrats . so he's system by the democrats. so he's really benefiting from from this and other those types of attempts by the democrats . attempts by the democrats. >> i mean, i understand the argument that you're making that the more he's attacked, the more popular he becomes. but you're talking the democrats popular he becomes. but you're talkin against the democrats popular he becomes. but you're talkin against the constitution . being against the constitution. come on, greg, january the 6th. i mean, there are great many people who might have supported trump past who saw what trump in the past who saw what happened capitol happened during the capitol riots completely riots and have been completely turned off. >> oh, camilla, it's a good point. look i mean, his behaviour was disgraceful. on january 6th. i'm not sure it's as as much or as bad as as the democrats are making it out to be, you know, calling it an insurrection and having this, you know, the january 6th, let's call it a show trial. um, in

washington . but that is going to washington. but that is going to affect it. and i think this is why president trump is only polling at 80. and when i say only, it's because incumbent presidents and he is, you know, a quasi incumbent, they usually poll at 90 or better. and if they poll below 90, they have real challenges in the general election. hope election. the best hope for president trump winning in president trump in winning in spite of, you know, some of the hiccups, like january sixth, like his his tendency to be unfiltered. um, the best, the best part of the system for him is joe biden , who's polling even is joe biden, who's polling even lower than donald trump. so you have two, two candidates that are polling at 40. biden, slightly lower than that. he's polling at 31 on the economy, 33 on foreign on foreign policy and 18 on on the border, 18% on president biden is polling at the border. so he is a very weak candidate . and that is creating candidate. and that is creating a binary choice. and i think at this point, it looks like a lot

of voters will support president trump, even if he never gets back to 45. you know, let's look at let's look at trump's other rival for the republican nomination, nikki haley. >> i mean, obviously come >> i mean, obviously he's come out both iowa and new out on top in both iowa and new hampshire. but she's saying the race is only just begun. it isn't i mean, is she isn't over yet. i mean, is she deluding herself? >> i don't think so. i mean, look , there's not a great chance look, there's not a great chance that she's going to win. there's obviously trump has got all the momentum. he's he's did very well in iowa. not quite as well in new hampshire as as his campaign had hoped. but i think there's merit to her staying in because a very unusual because this is a very unusual election. can happen. election. anything can happen. you've got rather elderly you've got two rather elderly candidates. think it's candidates. so i think it's probably worth sticking around just in case. number two, you know, is elevated to number one. she is winning delegates obviously she's not winning as many as trump, but she got nine delegates in new hampshire . delegates in new hampshire. president trump got 12. so you know he's a vulnerable. he has some vulnerabilities. so i was hoping ron desantis would stick around i was supporting

around too. i was supporting governor desantis and disappointed that he dropped out. >> you think he did drop >> why do you think he did drop out? i mean, obviously saw that his numbers are well behind trump, been able trump, but he hasn't been able to magic his to recreate the magic of his florida, florida governorship, has sort appeared on has he? he's sort of appeared on telly seemed bit stilted telly and seemed a bit stilted and himself . and unsure of himself. >> well, look, he's the same personality that he had when he ran re—election in florida ran for re—election in florida in 22. so never really bought in 22. so i never really bought into personality argument into the personality argument because didn't change. what because it didn't change. what did change was, was the indictment of president trump. and if you look at the polls before the raid in on mar—a—lago in august of 22, it was trump plus nine. the week after the raid, trump plus 39. same thing last year when they were basically in a dead heat. and cnn had desantis up two points. and then when the indictment started, you know, 15 points for president trump, that all came from desantis. so i think that the governor had to drop out because was in the same lane because he was in the same lane as president trump , and he as president trump, and he saw no path to the election. whereas mrs. haley is she's getting the

nevertrumpers , she's getting the nevertrumpers, she's getting the moderates, she's getting the independents really independents. that that really will probably never vote for president trump. so i don't think governor desantis had a chance. so it was probably the right thing. and he's effectively out of money as well, really. >> briefly, greg, because we're running out time. if it is running out of time. if it is trump versus who wins , trump versus biden who wins, unless something changes, it will be trump. >> but it will be very close. this won't be easy for president trump. all right. >> greg swanson, thank you very much indeed forjoining me this much indeed for joining me this morning. certainly certainly one to watch, isn't it? what a year 2024 is shaping up to both 2024 is shaping up to be both with the and us elections with the uk and us elections seeming at least promote very seeming to at least promote very many for people like many headlines for people like me. well, thank you very much for today. of for joining me today. i'll of course, be next sunday at course, be back next sunday at 930. next is my paper 930. up next is my paper reviewer extraordinaire, michael portillo, with a jam packed show . if any of you missed any of today's show, don't forget some of don't this, but we of you don't know this, but we do highlights at p.m. of you don't know this, but we do highlights at pm. on do play highlights at 6 pm. on gb news. so if you've missed a bit, tune from

sunday well. >> good morning and welcome to sunday with michael portillo . sunday with michael portillo. january is coming to a close , january is coming to a close, but as the wintry weather shows, no sign of waning. let us warm

up our minds with world affairs , up our minds with world affairs, arts, culture and politics. my politics panel will discuss how scotland will impact on this year's general election. the performance of the snp leader , performance of the snp leader, humza yousaf, is widely held as lamentable evidence taken at the covid inquiry in scotland suggested that the policy during the pandemic was often made for reasons of politics, not public health. the police inquiry into party funds that led to the arrest of nicola sturgeon and her husband is not yet concluded. and so, whilst the yougov mrp poll of earlier this month showed the snp declining from 48 westminster seats to 25, might, things turn out still worse for scotland's governing party this weekend? the world marks holocaust memorial day on the 74th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz. during the week , i had the great the week, i had the great fortune and honour to interview ruth posner, the dancer, choreographer and actress . she's choreographer and actress. she's also a holocaust survivor whose parents were murdered by the nazis in the treblinka death

camp. her