times we will disagree. but no one will be cancelled . joining one will be cancelled. joining me the next hour, broadcaster me in the next hour, broadcaster and journalist danny kelly, and also broadcaster and author christine hamilton in a few moments time we will be clashed in a head to head in a clash of minds. joining me to do that , minds. joining me to do that, former labour mp simon danczuk and also chairman of the national jewish assembly, gary mond. they'll be going head to head. but before we get started , head. but before we get started, let's get your latest news headunes. headlines. >> good afternoon. coming up to 3:01, i'm ray addison in the gb newsroom. our top stories a murder probe has been launched after two teenage boys died following a stabbing attack in bristol . the 15 and 16 year olds bristol. the 15 and 16 year olds were attacked in the south of the city yesterday morning . avon the city yesterday morning. avon and somerset police say a group of people fled the scene by car . of people fled the scene by car. both boys died in hospital in

the early hours of this morning. the 44 year old man and a 15 year old boy have been arrested and they remain in custody . and they remain in custody. defence secretary grant shapps says the uk remains undaunted by yesterday's illegal attack on hms diamond. the mod confirmed that the warship successfully repelled a houthi drone in the red sea . the vessel used her red sea. the vessel used her it's counter defence system to destroy the drone , avoiding any destroy the drone, avoiding any images, injuries or damage. it's the third such attempted attack on a royal naval vessel in recent weeks , the queen has recent weeks, the queen has visited the king as he spends his third day in hospital following a procedure for an enlarged prostate . it's her enlarged prostate. it's her third visit since they arrived at the private clinic together on friday morning. king charles is said to be doing well after the procedure. the princess of wales is also at the same hospital following abdominal surgery. charles rea, former royal correspondent for the sun, told us the support that the royal family are showing to each

other is comforting. only we don't see royals turn up at a hospital when one of them is in hospital. >> apart from occasionally, the queen visited prince philip in one of his longer stays in hospital, but it's nice to see that they are behaving as they always are, like normal people there. and i think this is showing, um, the way the royal family is now. and isn't it great to see a united royal family instead of the bickering that's been going on behind the scenes involving prince andrew, kemi badenoch has told gb news that she asked the chairman of the post office to resign after she realised that there were problems with the board. >> henry staunton stepped down in the wake of the horizon it scandal. the business secretary said that the decision was by mutual consent after she explained to him why she wanted new leadership. they've been having difficulties on the board and when i looked at it, i decided that given everything

that's happened, given the renewed interest or the new interest in some cases into the honzon interest in some cases into the horizon scandal, we just needed someone different. the united nafions someone different. the united nations has fired nine members of staff following allegations that they were involved in the hamas october 7th attacks on israel . un secretary—general israel. un secretary—general antonio guterres says he will hold to account any un employee involved in acts of terror. 12 staffers have been implicated so far. one is confirmed to be dead and the identities of two others are still being clarified. guterres is urging countries to continue supporting the un refugee agency for palestinian , refugee agency for palestinian, after nine governments, including the uk , paused their including the uk, paused their funding. miri eisin is from the international institute for counter—terrorism. she told gb news. it's complicated . news. it's complicated. >> the bulk of the employees are the palestinian refugees themselves and as such it's very challenging to understand that

difference that we have there , difference that we have there, that they participate and are part of the palestinian people in inside the gaza strip and in this case, israel transferred hard core evidence of the actual participation of 12 employees in the attack . the attack. >> the government has reportedly granted refugee status to four rwandans, despite attempting to pass a new law declaring it as a safe country. the observer says that the rwandan citizens were handed asylum after their fears of persecution were ruled to be well—founded. one, a supporter of rwanda's opposition party, was granted asylum just a day after the home office told the supreme court that the country was safe. the news comes ahead of a crucial week for the rwanda bill as it gets debated in the house of lords. bill as it gets debated in the house of lords . two people have house of lords. two people have been arrested after protesters threw soup at the mona lisa in the louvre museum in paris. two women wearing shirts with the

slogan food response crossed the security boundary and began shouting our farming system is sick! the incident came after days of protests by french farmers over low profits and red tape. the leonardo da vinci painting, widely considered to be a masterpiece, is set behind three inches of protective glass and was therefore unharmed , and and was therefore unharmed, and two officers rescued camels and zebras and a miniature horse as well from a circus trailer blaze in the us state of indiana, a caravan of long trucks were transporting the circus animals when a vehicle caught fire in the middle of the highway. police responding to the incident freed the animals, and they helped to keep them calm. as emergency services fought the flames through the night, grant county sheriff's office says there was no harm to our furry friends and applauded the officers for their compassion. oh this is gb news across the uk

on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. now let's get straight back to . nana. >> thank you ray . it's fast >> thank you ray. it's fast approaching seven minutes after 3:00. this is gb news. we are the people's channel. i'm nana okay here. now, before we get stuck into the clash, let me introduce you to my panel. joining me is former labour mp simon danczuk and also the chairman of the national jewish assembly , gary mond. don't look assembly, gary mond. don't look so gary. right here's so scared gary. right here's what else is coming up. can we badenoch. was she right to ask the post office chairman and who else should be in the firing line.7 that's what we want to know. and then , as the business know. and then, as the business secretary called for a change in leadership post office, leadership at the post office, do heads need to roll .7 or do more heads need to roll.7 or should king have to pay should greene king have to pay reparations? is, of course, reparations? that is, of course, the pub chain the caribbean nafion the pub chain the caribbean nation of saint kitts and nevis is set to demand slavery

reparations from the british brewer. but should they have to be pay this, surely then be made to pay this, surely then does labour have a problem does labour still have a problem with anti—semitism? in the same week as holocaust memorial day , week as holocaust memorial day, a labour mp said the government has blood on its hands over gaza. so does the labour party still to have a struggle still have to have a struggle with anti—semitism and is the reliance of universities and foreign students destroying our education system , after it education system, after it revealed that the british universities are offering places to overseas students for lower grades in order to get more cash.is grades in order to get more cash. is the reliance on foreign students destroying them and then finally, this hour, should then finally, this hour, should the royal family be more careful about their charity connections ? about their charity connections? after video emerged after a shocking video emerged of a leading king sponsored anti—violence campaigner allegedly assaulting an assistant , was allegedly assaulting an assistant, was king charles right to sponsor such a controversial person? i mean, it's not his fault he didn't know this guy was like this, but hey, that's coming up in the next hour. tell me what you think on everything we're discussing. email

gbviews@gbnews.uk at gbviews@gbnews.uk or tweet me at . gb news. so welcome on board to the clash. if you just tuned in, i'm nana akua just coming up to nine minutes after now, to nine minutes after 3:00. now, after weeks of scandal business secretary kemi badenoch has said that there is a need for new leadership at the post office as the outgoing chairman steps down. speaking to gb news earlier, she had this to say they've been having difficulties on the board and when i looked at it, i decided that given everything that's happened, given the renewed interest or the new interest in some cases into the horizon scandal, we just needed someone different . just needed someone different. so that was her early on. camilla tominey show government officials say that an internal interim will be appointed shortly , and a recruitment shortly, and a recruitment process for the new chairman will be launched in the due course in accordance with the governance code the public governance code for the public appointments. so what's kemi badenoch this and badenoch right to do this and who else should be in the firing

line ? well, let's see what my line? well, let's see what my clash make of former clash does make of that. former mp , labour mp simon danczuk also mp, labour mp simon danczuk also chairman of the national jewish assembly , gary mond. simon, i'm assembly, gary mond. simon, i'm going start with you. was going to start with you. was she right? needs to go? right? and who else needs to go? >> yeah, i was very impressed. i watched the interview this morning badenoch watched the interview this mor it's| badenoch watched the interview this morit's made badenoch watched the interview this mor it's made the badenoch watched the interview this morit's made the newspapers�*noch watched the interview this morit's made the newspapers as:h and it's made the newspapers as well. she's got rid of the chair, of the post chair, chairman of the post office . how refreshing that? office. how refreshing is that? because many ministers, i have to particularly in public to say, particularly in public services, accept mediocre services, just accept mediocre in terms of these arm's length organisations. so they're a bit distant , like the post office distant, like the post office from government , distant, like the post office from government, but distant, like the post office from government , but they have from government, but they have an important role to play and they have a board and they are stuffed with people very often who just aren't very good at performing. and she's quite clear from this interview that she did this morning. she didn't think he was up to the job, and she's got rid of him. and i wish more ministers would do that. >> well , i would >> okay. gary mond well, i would start mentioned start by saying you mentioned it's been weeks of scandal. >> it's it's decades of >> it's not it's been decades of scandal. got situation scandal. we've got a situation

where subpostmaster have where so many subpostmaster have had their lives ruined by what has happened. we've had a suicide. we've had people sent to jail, we've had horrendous fines being imposed, totally unjust lately. and when you've got a situation where this guy has been the current now ex—chairman , has been in place ex—chairman, has been in place for 13 months or so, and yet we don't seem to have progress. we don't seem to have progress. we don't actually have a full blown maya from the post maya culpa from the post office. it is right that new people are brought in who are independent from the crisis completely, and who sort out the mess and in particular sort out considerable recompense for those who have suffered . suffered. >> and what about ed davey, though? because he was one of the post office ministers during 2010 and 2012, now obviously there were quite a few post office ministers, so he's not the one. but specifically the only one. but specifically him, especially after he called for so people to resign and for so many people to resign and also the fact that, um , um, he also the fact that, um, um, he was actually approached actually by what's his name, um, mr bates, specifically with regard

to it. so and he turned him away. >> postmasters. yeah, that's absolutely right. and the biggest part of that scandal with ed davey, and i think he will have to go eventually, and this is going haunt him until this is going to haunt him until election . and i think he election day. and i think he will have stand as will have to stand down as leader liberal democrats. leader of the liberal democrats. and because not and quite rightly, because not only was he a minister responsible for the post office, but after that he then went to work for a law firm that was representing the post office and prosecuting the subpostmasters. wow. now how do you go from that position? no other post office minister has gone on to do a similar job minister has gone on to do a similarjob and get paid a quarter of £1 million for it. that's some coincidence, isn't it, to go to then go to work for the out of all the hundreds of law firms in the uk, it goes to work for the one that's prosecuting the sub postmasters. >> obviously, there's no indication that he had anything to do with any of that. correct >> absolutely, it's just >> but absolutely, it's just a coincidence, perhaps. but nevertheless , yes, i think he nevertheless, yes, i think he has to consider his position. i think it looks absolutely terrible liberal

terrible for the liberal democrats. think they'll democrats. and i think they'll struggle he. struggle until he. >> clinging on to >> why are they clinging on to him? anything, gary , him? nobody said anything, gary, do that ed davey him? nobody said anything, gary, do be that ed davey him? nobody said anything, gary, do be anothered davey him? nobody said anything, gary, do be another one avey him? nobody said anything, gary, do be another one that needs should be another one that needs to public? should be another one that needs to this|blic? should be another one that needs to this isic? should be another one that needs to this is all about impressions >> this is all about impressions that the public that you create on the public and while the minutia of actually what ed davey did or didn't do might not be fully known, there's no question that his image now in the public domain has now been, i think, irrevocably shattered. i'm amazed that he hasn't gone already. uh, and i actually think that the liberal democrats are going to suffer badly at the national level because of him. well, i think you're right. >> and the thing is, there were 34 occasions when he called for resignations. i think 18 of those were for boris johnson . those were for boris johnson. and, um, he called for it's called rishi sunak to go . he's called rishi sunak to go. he's called rishi sunak to go. he's called for so many people to go and now there's a, a point where it is legitimate to ask him to consider his position. he's defiant. >> yeah, absolutely. and he's avoiding doing any media, but he can't do that up, up to election day. and gary's right. i mean, in the opinion polls , the course

in the opinion polls, the course in the opinion polls, the course in around 10, they've in the longer around 10, they've been overtaken by, uh, the reform uk significantly . and i reform uk significantly. and i think they're going to stay either where they are or even dip further . dip further. >> i think i think they've lost the poll. he's another one would you say anybody else should be the poll. he's another one would yo the y anybody else should be the poll. he's another one would yo the firing)ody else should be the poll. he's another one would yo the firing line else should be the poll. he's another one would yo the firing line fore should be the poll. he's another one would yo the firing line fore shinld be in the firing line for the in terms of that scandal? >> there needs to some >> there needs to be some prosecutions. of prosecutions. right. in terms of some involved. and some of the people involved. and i think should i don't think the public should be people are be satisfied until people are prosecuted for it. it's one of the biggest british scandals in a very long time. >> i think, gary, i think that the public not. agree the public will not. i agree completely that completely with simon on that last i think that the last point, but i think that the pubuc last point, but i think that the public will also want to see substantial compensation the substantial compensation to the victims and that whereas there's lots of criticism of how government spends its money, that one where that will be one area where there won't criticism that there won't be criticism that will wholly accepted. well, will be wholly accepted. well, the office are trying to the post office are trying to bnng the post office are trying to bring days aren't they? bring down the days aren't they? >> so they have to do >> so they don't have to do seven a week. they're seven days a week. they're trying the trying to get rid of the saturday mail. but you think saturday mail. but do you think people boycotting mail people are boycotting royal mail because like, um, because it does feel like, um, they're losing a bit of leverage

and people are i mean, or do you think is a legitimate think royal mail is a legitimate service need keep service that we need to keep going? think that people going? i do think that people are alternatives, are looking for alternatives, without a doubt. >> business has >> certainly my business has been! >> certainly my business has been i run a financial trading business, and the past we use business, and in the past we use royal all the time now. now royal mail all the time now. now we do everything as much as we can email we have to can via email and if we have to send something a hard copy of something, we'll use couriers. uh, obviously use the uh, and obviously use the independent couriers to um, so i do think that that's perhaps independent of the ed davey situation that's independent of the presence, but it is very much on the downturn connection to it, that there is a connection, royal mail and thinking, don't want thinking, actually, i don't want to give them my business. they it factor, but it is certainly a factor, but it's only one. yeah, it's not the only one. yeah, yeah. >> post office, royal mail. they are traditional british institutions , a bit like the institutions, a bit like the bbc, but they, they it comes to a point where they are a thing of the past, almost, you know, a point where they are a thing of the where almost, you know, a point where they are a thing of the where everybody's know, a point where they are a thing of the where everybody's moved on where where everybody's moved on from them using courier services and everything else. you know. and some of that's because they've been overly unionised .

they've been overly unionised. they've been propped up by the pubuc they've been propped up by the public sector, by the public purse, and they've become unsustainable. i'm afraid , unsustainable. i'm afraid, unsustainable. i'm afraid, unsustainable ineffective . unsustainable and ineffective. >> although a lot of small businesses would argue that they are lifeblood of their are the lifeblood of their business. think? business. but what do you think? gb gbnews.com tweet gb views gbnews.com or tweet me at gb news. uh, don't forget, you can also stream the show live so you can watch it on youtube. don't fancy youtube. if you don't fancy watching your tv. but watching it on your tv. but moving our next head to moving on to our next head to head now, this one got me because i'm so sick and tired because i. i'm so sick and tired of hearing reparations for the canbbean of hearing reparations for the caribbean of kitts caribbean nation of saint kitts and nevis is said to demand slavery reparations greene slavery reparations from greene king. this is obviously king. now this is obviously a british brewer . they're a pub british brewer. they're a pub chain. you may have visited one of their pubs before the islands were once the home of slave owned by the brewery founder , owned by the brewery founder, benjamin greene, who's 21st century successor acknowledged the company's links to slave labourin the company's links to slave labour in 2020. so that's when he acknowledged that they weren't still doing it. then officials in saint kitts and nevis are set to demand reparations from greene king,

and talks with the brewery and pub chain company have been arranged . so should king arranged. so should greene king be forced to pay reparations? well joining me for the clash, a former labour mp, simon danczuk anneliese, the chairman of the national jewish assembly, gary monde, what do you monde, gary monde, what do you think i think wokery gone think i think it's wokery gone mad , frankly, in a nutshell, mad, frankly, in a nutshell, these are events that happened 250 to 300 years ago and, and to try to make the present generations liable for the crimes of what happened centuries ago. bear in mind that that was a legitimate business. so we see it as a crime. but years gone by, the slave trade was a trade, an official trade. i'm just saying we see it as a crime. we know it's a crime. but then it was legitimate to ask for reparations. >> reparations? this would be the of slippery the beginning of a slippery slope they actually slope, because if they actually did make reparations, would did make reparations, we would start see a rash of claims start to see a rash of claims going around the world in respect of what happened with regard to slavery. 250, 300

years ago. i mean, is there so focussed on slavery? >> i don't understand why they don't just focus on the actual slavery going now . slavery that's going on now. >> that very, very valid. >> i have to declare an interest. i have been known to, uh, the odd greene king uh, pop into the odd greene king pobail al at greene king as a brand and a pub chain. so? so i enjoy it, and i wouldn't be very keen on some of my money. paid for a pint going to reparations ehheni for a pint going to reparations either. i agree with gary on this. i think it's a retrograde retrograde step . i think they retrograde step. i think they shouldn't have any truck with it actually. >> but what about people who would argue that? well, actually the slave trade had a big effect on, uh , many people of african on, uh, many people of african and caribbean origin. they would argue that perhaps some people are disadvantaged still, as a result of it. and there was a narrative of inferior pity towards the black race. people might argue that. and they had a handin might argue that. and they had a hand in that. >> well, i absolutely agree that there's appalling there's been some appalling treatment . i mean, treatment of people. i mean, even is an understatement, even that is an understatement, but i think we should also acknowledge that there's been,

uh, have been uh, white people have been pushed as well. we pushed into slavery as well. we hardly ever talk about that . hardly ever talk about that. there's been various kinds of slavery in lots of different on lots of on, on every continent, practically , uh, people being practically, uh, people being treated appalling . but i just treated appalling. but i just don't think you can go down this road of reparation . i just think road of reparation. i just think it opens a door. and where does it opens a door. and where does it end? >> but do you think that this country is a bit of a soft touch? because if you can imagine asking vladimir putin or even, my if we're even, in my view, if we're talking reparations, talking about reparations, i'd be reparations be asking china for reparations on regard to covid. and on with regard to covid. and that's that's happened, that's a thing that's happened, and here and and we're all still here and nobody's focusing on but nobody's focusing on that. but i'm angry that virus i'm pretty angry that that virus came, know from china. we came, as we know from china. we know that now, right? there's not it's undisputed. and we ended up having to buy ppe from china. so that's why i think we're backwards when yet we're going backwards when yet what things that have what about things that have happened we could happened here where we could actually get some sort of recompense? >> can i just take you to >> can i just take you back to the point made briefly the point you made briefly earlier? present earlier? um, the present generation, great generation, the great, great great grandchildren of slaves . i great grandchildren of slaves. i

don't accept that they have suffered in their lives today because their great great great grandfathers were slaves . it may grandfathers were slaves. it may well be. there are other factors that to them that might lead to them suffering, there suffering, but there are perfectly people , uh, perfectly many, many people, uh, who are black or of other minorities who have done exceptionally well in life even though their ancestors were slaves. >> but their argument is the economic factors. so, for example , it would have taken example, it would have taken them to become landowners them longer to become landowners and that, you know and things like that, you know what i mean? so that's that. would taken them would it may have taken them longer become landowners, but would it may have taken them lme landowners, but would it may have taken them l> no, i don't accept that. no. >> i, you look , i >> and i, you know, look, i can't because i don't can't defend it because i don't want defend it because want to defend it because frankly, we agreement. frankly, i, we are in agreement. but there are people like laura trevelyan there sort trevelyan who are out there sort of trying to create some sort of historical where people, historical thing where people, lots people put money lots of rich people put money in. you think it's more in. do you think it's more people paying? reparations people paying? these reparations are slightly are kind of almost slightly patronising and of actually patronising and sort of actually inflicting a sense of more, uh ,

inflicting a sense of more, uh, superiority by saying, oh, we're going to pay you, you poor things. we've harmed you. we're going i almost i perpetuates going to i almost i perpetuates it, think they're doing it it, i think they're doing it because they want publicity for themselves seen to be themselves to be seen to be champions of the woke, of the woke , uh, groupings that it's my woke, uh, groupings that it's my feeling that they want to have the publicity. >> that's why they're doing it. it's not so much because of any benefit it could possibly do. >> well , so what do benefit it could possibly do. >> well, so what do you think? gb views gb news. com or tweet me at gb news. should the greene king pub have to pay reparations for to slavery in the for links to slavery in the past, when yet there is current slavery happening right here, right now? and also so i would be looking for reparations from people like china if we're going to go down that route. with regard covid, if they regard to covid, that's if they want their energy. want to focus their energy. that's but do that's where i'd be. but what do you also, china you think? and also, does china have the uyghur muslims and they're they're doing something there not focusing on things they're they're doing something thereareiot focusing on things they're they're doing something ther

com or tweet me at gb news coming as the big times coming up as the big times expose that british expose reveals that british universities are allowing foreign students to attend with lower grades , is the reliance on lower grades, is the reliance on foreign students destroying our universities? but up next, as a labour mp accuses the government of being in genocide of being complicit in genocide in gaza, is the labour party still having trouble with anti—semitism

monday to thursdays from six till 930. >> good afternoon. welcome aboard. if you're just tuned in,

it's just coming up to 25 minutes after 3:00. this is gb news. we are the people's channel. i'm nana akua and it is, of course, the clash. now this week saw holocaust memorial day, but labour mp tahir ali sparked fury when he accused the government . of being complicit government. of being complicit in genocide over the ongoing israel—gaza war. here's what he had to say and therefore, is it now not the time for the prime minister to admit that he has the blood of thousands of innocent people on his hands? >> and for him to commit to demanding an immediate ceasefire and an ending of uk's arms trade with israel . will with israel. will >> mr speaker, that's the face of the changed labour party relationship . relationship. >> so we kind of accused rishi sunak of having the blood of thousands of innocent people on his hands. the incident has

reignited debate over the labour party's battle to stamp out anti—semitism. so let's welcome again to my clashes . i've got again to my clashes. i've got simon danczuk and the chairman of the national jewish assembly, gary mond. right. so does labour have a problem with anti—semitism? i'm going to come to you , simon, because you are to you, simon, because you are an ex—labour man. >> yeah, yeah, i was described by the financial times as, uh, jeremy corbyn's fiercest critic when i, when i was a labour mp and i was critical of him, not least because of the anti—semitism that existed in the party in which, in effect, he fuelled it. but it hasn't gone away completely , as we've gone away completely, as we've just seen there. with that piece about tahir ali. there are people within the labour party , people within the labour party, in the parliamentary labour party , labour mps who have party, labour mps who have a particular view of the jewish community and particularly in terms of israel. and the sooner starmer takes some decisive action in relation to these people, the better, because because it is allowing them to

apologise and stay within the parliamentary labour party . and parliamentary labour party. and it's not going to get any better for him. it needs to be more decisive , i'm afraid. decisive, i'm afraid. >> yeah, there isn't any real excuse anti—semitism, excuse for anti—semitism, although jeremy corbyn has denied such allegations that denied any such allegations that he . but he has appeared at he is. but he has appeared at pro—palestinian rallies and spoken at those things. gary monde i think that it's fundamental to being jewish for the overwhelming majority of jews that israel is central to the core of our beliefs and the existence and prosperity of the state of israel is fundamentally we don't we're not asking people to be massive supporters of benjamin netanyahu. to be massive supporters of berwe|in netanyahu. to be massive supporters of berwe areletanyahu. to be massive supporters of berwe are asking hu. to be massive supporters of berwe are asking them to accept >> we are asking them to accept that to jews are the legitimacy of the state of israel is at the core. and for those who cannot accept the legitimacy of the state of israel and who want to see it destroyed, which sadly , see it destroyed, which sadly, as simon was saying, applies to quite a number of members of parliament in the labour party, nobody said they want to see israel destroyed. >> i think that's a bit extreme. >> i think that's a bit extreme.

>> think it's >> no, i don't think it's extreme. think that although extreme. i think that although they're not actually saying so explicit , what they're generally explicit, what they're generally wanting to see about bring about is the destruction of the state of israel. and it goes actually a parliament. a lot deeper than parliament. you argue that you also, they'd argue that they're for ceasefire you also, they'd argue that theyae for ceasefire you also, they'd argue that theya ceasefire.)r ceasefire and a ceasefire. >> i think will amount to that in end , because i doubt in the end, because i doubt hamas will stop firing. but they're a ceasefire they're calling for a ceasefire and will stop firing for and hamas will stop firing for a few weeks. and hamas will stop firing for a few perhaps and hamas will stop firing for a fewperhaps if and hamas will stop firing for a few perhaps if there was and hamas will stop firing for a fewperhaps if there was a >> perhaps if there was a ceasefire, the problem there is that hamas will survive and it will eventually start flourishing again , and it will flourishing again, and it will eventually repeat what it did on october the 7th. the only way to stop that is the complete and total destruction of hamas , total destruction of hamas, which can only be achieved if the war is seen to the conclusion that the israeli government it seen to. government want it seen to. which is what which is the elimination of hamas, of strategically and militarily . strategically and militarily. and then after they have been eliminated to actually see that future generations of gazan children are not indoctrinated to hate jews and israel.

>> well, because of so many people have died. some people are calling calling this a genocide, which , you know, this genocide, which, you know, this is what people are saying. simon, what what is your view on on that? >> well, particularly on the on the situation. keir starmer has got a real problem here. he's got a real problem here. he's got people within the parliamentary labour party who are anti israel. and are very much anti israel. and we saw that with hear ali's comments at prime minister's questions this week. but there's a good few of them there. now he's trying to walk a tightrope . he's trying to walk a tightrope. he doesn't want to upset the muslim vote in britain. he relies a lot on on uh pakistan for pakistani , uh, people. for pakistani, uh, people. bangladeshis people from that part of the world and ethnic origin is from there , uh, the origin is from there, uh, the muslim and is relying on those votes. and he's worried about losing them. so he's trying to walk a tightrope. he's trying to keep these far left mps in the party because they speak to that audience. but at the same time, it's trying to look moderate and on the side of israel . but he

on the side of israel. but he can't do both things. that's for sure. he's going to struggle as time goes on. >> there's a very interesting parallel between the behaviour of and the of sir keir starmer and the behaviour joe behaviour of president joe biden. in a similar biden. he's in a similar situation. he's terrified he's going to lose vast numbers of votes, not to donald trump , but votes, not to donald trump, but to who stop voting. the to people who stop voting. the democrat doesn't democrat party. if he doesn't come down on the side of the palestinians , is, uh, and it's palestinians, is, uh, and it's interesting to see the parallel around the world. it's not just in this country. >> and if you look at it in more detail, we've got a by—election coming rochdale , all coming up in rochdale, all right, i know very well . right, which i know very well. it's they've chosen the, the labour candidates, as are ali, uh, relatively local guy, uh, obviously muslim . um, uh, but obviously muslim. um, uh, but the interesting point here is that we've got george galloway announcing that he's going to stand in the by—election that will put a lot of pressure on the labour vote, because there will be people in the muslim community in rochdale, and it's sizeable . who will vote for

sizeable. who will vote for george galloway instead? oh, absolutely . george. george absolutely. george. george i mean, i'm sure i'm sure gary will tell us more, but he's very popular in the muslim, uh, community. he talks very passionate about palestine. he's very anti—israel. as george galloway. he will take a lot of votes . votes. >> he's not suspend himself. he's he's been he's he definitely anti—israel . just definitely anti—israel. just he's just pro—palestine, but not. >> well, perhaps or both. yeah i mean, i've shared a platform with him in rochdale talking about the middle east situation in years gone by. and he's very eloquent. he'll take a lot of votes labour in russia. votes from labour in russia. >> understanding is he's also >> my understanding is he's also planning for mayor of planning to stand for mayor of london and will take a of london and will take a lot of votes sadiq as well. votes from sadiq khan as well. well, let susan hall in well, i could let susan hall in and this is the challenge that keir starmer has. >> this challenge. keir >> this is the challenge. keir >> this is the challenge. keir >> think that the >> so do you think that the labour party still have a problem with anti—semitism? problem then with anti—semitism? would problem then with anti—semitism? w0|oh yeah. no. conclusion, >> oh yeah. no. in conclusion, without and keir has to without a doubt and keir has to be addressing it and be seen to be addressing it and he the moment and it he isn't at the moment and it goes beyond just the parliamentary labour party. >> you have look the

>> you have to look at the constituency, parties constituency, labour parties around to around the country. you have to look this around the country. you have to lo endemic this around the country. you have to lo endemic it's this around the country. you have to lo endemic it's fairly this around the country. you have to lo endemic it's fairly deep. is endemic and it's fairly deep. my is endemic and it's fairly deep. my understanding , and certainly my understanding, and certainly people i know in labour are saying this, it's fairly deep. well listen, what are your thoughts? >> does labour problem >> does labour have a problem with views with anti—semitism? gb views gbnews.com or tweet me at gb news as you're with me, i'm nana akua. news as you're with me, i'm nana akua . this gb news. we're akua. this is gb news. we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. up next, as it's revealed , the british revealed, the british universities are offering cash for courses in order to take advantage of higher for advantage of higher fees for overseas students . is the overseas students. is the reliance on foreign students destroying our universities? but first, let's get your latest news headlines . news headlines. >> good afternoon. it's 332. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. a murder probe has been launched after two teenage boys died following a stabbing attack in bristol . the 15 and 16 attack in bristol. the 15 and 16 year olds were attacked in the south of the city yesterday morning . avon and somerset morning. avon and somerset police say a group of people

fled the scene by car . both boys fled the scene by car. both boys died in hospital in the early hours of this morning. a 44 year old man and a 15 year old boy have been arrested and remain in custody . defence secretary grant custody. defence secretary grant shapps says the uk remains under entered by yesterday's illegal attack on hms diamond. ministry of defence confirmed the warship successfully repelled a houthi drone in the red sea. the vessel used her counter defence system to destroy the drone, avoiding any injuries or damage . this is any injuries or damage. this is the third attempted attack on the third attempted attack on the navy vessel. the queen has left the london clinic after spending the afternoon with the king. it's the third day his majesty has spent recovering in hospital following a procedure for an enlarged prostate. king charles is said to be doing well after the treatment at the princess of wales is also at the same hospital, following abdominal surgery . two people abdominal surgery. two people have been arrested after protesters threw soup at the mona lisa in the louvre museum in paris. two women wearing

shirts with the slogan food response crossed the security boundary and began shouting our farming system is sick! the incident came after days of protests by french farmers over low profits and red tape . the low profits and red tape. the leonardo da vinci painting , leonardo da vinci painting, widely considered a masterpiece , widely considered a masterpiece, is set behind three inches of protective glass and was unharmed , and you can get more unharmed, and you can get more on all those stories by visiting our website at gbnews.com now it's back to . nana. it's back to. nana. >> coming up as an ambassador for the kings anti—violence charity is caught on video allegedly assaulting an assistant should the royals be more careful who they support . more careful who they support. but .

sunday mornings from 930 on gb news is in 2024. >> gb news is britain's election channel. come and join me this thursday in scunthorpe. >> live by scanning the qr code or going on gbillionews.com to get your ticket for the event, we'll be discussing things like why the green agenda is risking jobs in places like scunthorpe . jobs in places like scunthorpe. >> good afternoon. it's 39 minutes after 3:00. if you've just tuned in. welcome on board. this is a gb news. we are the people's channel. i'm nana akua. it's time for the clash and up

next foreign students are able to buy their way on to competitive degree courses as top universities are paying middlemen in to recruit overseas students . courses that require students. courses that require a or a star grades from british students have accepted foreign students have accepted foreign students with a c grades at gcse . international students pay much higher fees than british ones and are gaining places on courses through the back door routes. so is the reliance on foreign students destroying our universities as well? joining me going head to head in the clash of minds is former labour mp simon danczuk and also chairman of the national jewish assembly , of the national jewish assembly, gary mond, right gary mond, what do you think about this ? do you think about this? >> my first reaction is to try to put myself in the mind of a british student who just fails to get his a star. aa narrowly fails and loses his place. just feel, i think , how he or she feel, i think, how he or she would feel to hear that foreign students are taking that place with grades of ccd , and it will

with grades of ccd, and it will be absolutely galling. and i'm sure there must be many british students around the country who, heanng students around the country who, hearing this, will be horrified . hearing this, will be horrified. >> well, it also brings down the standard, doesn't it really, if that's if you're going to admit people money, which people based on money, which is what become. people based on money, which is thwell, become. people based on money, which is thwell, there's come. people based on money, which is thwell, there's no 1e. people based on money, which is thwell, there's no question >> well, there's no question that's is that's right. however, there is an on the other side an argument on the other side that needs to be made. well, no one seems be it, but one seems to be making it, but the let's look the argument. let's look at it from position the from the position of the universities. the universities. they need the money they're thinking to money and they're thinking to themselves, to themselves, how are we going to get money? instead of get the extra money? instead of getting to getting £9,000, we're going to getting £9,000, we're going to get £38,000. and this brings into debate a much bigger issue about the whole funding of universities and maybe, just maybe , perhaps we've got too maybe, perhaps we've got too many universities . many universities. >> do you think so? >> do you think so? >> well, i credit to the sunday times for doing this expose. >> that is a big expose , isn't it? >> it's a it's in— >> it's a it's a it? >> it's a it's a disgraceful situation and i'm not on the side of universities. i think they get they've become far too big. i mean the churn in students out. um, if money is an

issue then cut back on, you know, cut back on the number of lecturers, you know, uh, run a tighter ship, uh, you know, run a smarter business, but don't just start recruiting students who clearly aren't up to it into the russell group of universities , which are our top universities, which are our top universities, which are our top universities accepting people. who leads , as it says in the who leads, as it says in the report, are accepting people. we are d at a level, uh, whereas british students have to get triple a's to get into that university . that can't be university. that can't be acceptable. british universities primarily are there to serve british people , and that's not british people, and that's not what's happening with this. and it's a disgrace. >> yeah, i think that's right. >> yeah, i think that's right. >> i think that's right. but i wondered what do you think about the possibility of having fewer universities . universities. >> oh well i think there has to be some rationalisation. and i think the whole, the whole , the think the whole, the whole, the whole setup in terms of er education needs to be examined in detail by government. yes, absolutely .

absolutely. >> hmm. interesting stuff. well i mean, what do you think gb views gb news. com i'm wondering if we can get some emails in here, get in touch with us. what do think? what your do you think? what are your thoughts one? loads thoughts on this one? adds loads more still to come on the way. are we doing my monologue? i'm talking about a whether a black actor churchill. what actor can play churchill. what do it acceptable? do you think? is it acceptable? would would would you think that that would work? well, ask these two work? well, i'll ask these two actually think a black actor actually do think a black actor garamond could actually do think a black actor garaichurchill could actually do think a black actor garaichurchill a could actually do think a black actor garaichurchill a simple ould actually do think a black actor garaichurchill a simple word? play churchill in a simple word? >> no. i think that because churchill was figure churchill was a figure in history and everybody knows he was white, i think audiences would expect him, the actor, to be white. on the other hand, if you had a fictional story, uh, something that never really happened, i'd be far more relaxed. uh, as to the colour of the skin or anything else, frankly, about the actual actress question . actress in question. >> i'm looking forward to your monologue uh, my monologue on it, but, uh, my view no, i mean, it's view is that. no, i mean, it's just black just absurd to have a black actor playing winston churchill. if anybody knows what that a prime minister looks like, it's. people know what winston churchill looked like and he's a

chubby old guy with a cigar, uh, chubby old guy with a cigar, uh, chubby old guy with a cigar, uh, chubby old white guy with a cigar. >> but do you think that's relevant, though? >> you know, some people might argue well what? argue that. well so what? they're can they're acting, it can be anything acting. they're acting, it can be any no, g acting. they're acting, it can be any no, because acting. they're acting, it can be any no, because itacting. they're acting, it can be any no, because it sets g. they're acting, it can be any no, because it sets the >> no, because it sets the context as doesn't it? you context as well, doesn't it? you know, he would have context as well, doesn't it? you know, in he would have context as well, doesn't it? you know, in the he would have context as well, doesn't it? you know, in the way he would have context as well, doesn't it? you know, in the way that vould have context as well, doesn't it? you know, in the way that held have context as well, doesn't it? you know, in the way that he didiave context as well, doesn't it? you know, in the way that he did as; acted in the way that he did as acted in the way that he did as a minister is outlook on a prime minister is outlook on life framed his by life was all framed by his by his his culture and by his ethnicity. uh, by the fact that he was a white old guy that did frame how he acted and the decisions he made. and i think by having a black actor play him , uh, it dilutes that it causes confusion and makes the, the whole telling of history ridiculous . ridiculous. >> but it is happening to some extent already . we're seeing extent already. we're seeing i went to the theatre to see best of enemies, and one of the american politicians who was known to be blatantly racist and anti—black, , actually was anti—black, uh, actually was played by a black man . to me. played by a black man. to me. i thought it was ridiculous . thought it was ridiculous. >> i don't know why they're doing this as some sort of diversity inclusion diversity and inclusion or exclusion of the reality that's going i think it's going on here, but i think it's the irony of this is that it

sort of doesn't work the other way could never way around. so you could never have, a black actor playing have, say, a black actor playing martin, actor playing martin, a white actor playing martin, a white actor playing martin luther hahaha. martin luther king. hahaha. hilarious, ? that sort of hilarious, right? that sort of almost be a comedy, wouldn't it? wouldn't well, but wouldn't work out well, but let's tuned in 44 let's if you just tuned in 44 minutes after 3:00, uh, it is a clash. although they seem to be agreeing, which is most infuriating, but this one might get you. here's ambassador get you. here's an ambassador for now. an ambassador for for now. he's an ambassador for the anti—violence charity the kings anti—violence charity and, uh, have a look at what he's doing. and for those on radio, i'll slightly over radio, i'll slightly talk over it you an idea what he it to give you an idea what he will be. >> does he library with him? go ahead. >> i. >> now, i i-- >> now, now, i i-_ >> now, now, for i. >> now, now, for those on radio. apologies for that because i was hoping to talk over so you could

hear what was going on. we'll try and play it again for you now and we'll talk over it. hopefully, we can that. hopefully, if we can get that. but there but what was happening there was, the guy who is was, uh, well, the guy who is the charity was the anti—violence charity was just ten bells of just beating ten bells out of this on this other person caught on camera. caught camera. camera. it's caught on camera. um, guy in the black um, he's the guy in the black with what like shoe in with what looks like a shoe in his or something, he's his hand or something, and he's hitting. chatting he's hitting. he's chatting. he's negotiating gentleman , negotiating with a gentleman, and then he's picked up something . and it is now something. and it is now starting lambasting him with it. quite a few times now he's dragged him by the hair and has pulled him and now pulled him to the floor and is now hitting him on back and on the back of on the back and on the back of his head with what appears to be some of shoe some sort his head with what appears to be so implement.hoe some sort his head with what appears to be so implement. you some sort his head with what appears to be so implement. you can'tne sort his head with what appears to be so implement. you can't quitet of implement. you can't quite make out what that is. he is the king's anti—violence. uh, he's an for an an ambassador for an anti—violence . he is the anti—violence charity. he is the one in the black shirt. shocking footage , um, showing a pakistani footage, um, showing a pakistani folk singer, rahat fateh ali khan. that's his name . the khan. that's his name. the ambassador for the kings. british asian trust, which tackles domestic violence,

attacking a backing singer on a us tour . british asian trust us tour. british asian trust said we all we take all accusations of abuse seriously and we will look into this urgently . all right, so simon urgently. all right, so simon danczuk, i see the best placed person to be dealing with that. >> no, i think the king's going to have to drop him, isn't he? you've got this pakistani folk singer who is world renowned by all accounts . uh, but it shows all accounts. uh, but it shows him quite clearly beating , him quite clearly beating, beating up one of his backing singers . uh, beating up one of his backing singers. uh, he can't beating up one of his backing singers . uh, he can't surely singers. uh, he can't surely hold any position in the british asian trust. and, uh , he'll have asian trust. and, uh, he'll have to be dropped from it. i mean, it looks pretty clear to me. it looks pretty evident that hmm'hmm darimont i think the nub of the issue is that when your private life behaviour is in direct conflict with your public status, as is the case here, he's got to resign. >> if your private life, however bad it may be, has got nothing whatsoever to do with what you do in public life , then it

do in public life, then it becomes more debateable. but this is an absolute open and shut case of his private life and his public life being in conflict. he's got to go . conflict. he's got to go. >> yeah, well, yeah, it does seem a bit odd, doesn't it, that the i feel sorry for the royal family in terms of some of the people that they pick to do certain and then those certain jobs, and then those people out to be bit people turn out to be a bit dodgy. this guy certainly shouldn't doing role he shouldn't be doing the role he is, is just incredible is, but it is just incredible that this guy's actually caught on role is on camera and his role is anti—violence , is domestic anti—violence, is domestic abuse, and he's the issue that's, well, not that. the that's, well, not just that. the issue. even if he was doing something different, but was something different, but he was caught that and still caught doing that and still working king charles. working with with king charles. i think we'd have a problem with it but what do you it as well. but what do you think home? think at home? vaiews@gbnews.com me vaiews@gbnews.com or tweet me at gb news. lot of you have at gb news. a lot of you have been touch with your been getting in touch with your views. coming . we've views. keep them coming. we've got much still to come the got so much still to come on the program. discussing, got so much still to come on the progorm. discussing, got so much still to come on the progor with discussing, got so much still to come on the progor with regard discussing, got so much still to come on the progor with regard to ;cussing, got so much still to come on the progor with regard to obviously uh, or with regard to obviously my monologue, i'm looking my monologue, which i'm looking forward and forward to bringing you and danny kelly and christine hamilton live in the hamilton will be live in the studio as well. but your thoughts always welcome. gb

thoughts are always welcome. gb views at gb news.com . so what do views at gb news.com. so what do you make of the tory party i want to talk to you about the tory party now, simon danczuk, because, um, obviously they are trying to win votes win trying to win votes or win something . um, they are talking something. um, they are talking about changing leader. do you think that will make any difference whatsoever? >> no , i don't think i don't >> no, i don't think i don't think will change leader. >> no, i don't think i don't thinthere will change leader. >> no, i don't think i don't thinthere is'ill change leader. >> no, i don't think i don't thinthere is lotshange leader. >> no, i don't think i don't thinthere is lots of1ge leader. >> no, i don't think i don't thinthere is lots of talkeader. >> no, i don't think i don't thinthere is lots of talk about but there is lots of talk about it there. uh, but i just it isn't there. uh, but i just can't. i can't believe that they would go before the public having changed leader again . having changed leader yet again. it would be the fourth time. i think i'm right in saying in this, in this last, uh, 4 or 5 year tum of a government. so they are in a difficult position . varne no doubt about it. rishi sunakis . varne no doubt about it. rishi sunak is struggling to cut through . uh, is not managing to through. uh, is not managing to get to move the opinion polls in any further up. i think the 20 odd points behind the labour party now, uh , he's not getting party now, uh, he's not getting cut through whether that changes in the next few months, i don't know. but the other problem he's got is that he's got reform uk. uh chomping at heels and

uh chomping at his heels and that's going to be a problem for him. >> gary mond well, i'm a lifelong conservative. >> i stood for parliament twice and i was a councillor for six years. i'm extremely years. and i'm extremely disappointed the present disappointed in the present situation i think the rebels situation. i do think the rebels are going to get their 52 letters in to graham brady. uh, but i think that when they have the vote on confidence, sunak will overwhelmingly , uh, will win it overwhelmingly, uh, and that will stop the rebellion. he will the rebellion. and he will be the leader at time of the next leader at the time of the next general election. >> who want the job >> who would want the job anyway? want anyway? like, why would you want the at the helm of anyway? like, why would you want tiship at the helm of anyway? like, why would you want tiship that at the helm of anyway? like, why would you want tiship that is at the helm of anyway? like, why would you want tiship that is sinkinge helm of anyway? like, why would you want tiship that is sinking fast lm of anyway? like, why would you want tiship that is sinking fast ?1 of a ship that is sinking fast? >> that's a very good question. um, i, i find that it it must be tremendously , uh, depressing. tremendously, uh, depressing. and at times even traumatic to have that role. being prime minister at any time is a very demanding position. however successful and however well you're doing in the polls , it you're doing in the polls, it takes a lot out of anyone. but when you've also got a situation where you're 27 points behind in the polls or whatever it is, it must be particularly galling.

>> some people would say it serves him right. i mean, he did stab johnson in the back. stab boris johnson in the back. he did have his suntan ready for rishi for taking rishi cream, ready for taking over and some people will say that he's getting his just desserts. >> yeah. no, i think that's a strong argument. and people have never forgiven him. uh for having sort attitude and having that sort of attitude and approach. have to say . kemi approach. i have to say. kemi badenoch morning gb news badenoch this morning on gb news in the interview, breath of fresh air, i followed for politics over 30 years and she was just very honest, very straight, very direct in how she handled she's handled the post office situation . uh, i think office situation. uh, i think she , uh, will be somebody to she, uh, will be somebody to watch for sure. uh, once the conservatives have lost the next general election. >> but if do you think that she's very inexperienced now, she's very inexperienced now, she's great. but when you haven't got the pressure and all the other things going on, it's easy look good in the easy to look good in the background. but then when the pressure is on, do you think that handle that she could handle it? >> i get sense. >> oh, well, i get that sense. she's held she's in the cabinet. she's held she's in the cabinet. she's doing some senior jobs and she's doing some seniorjobs and she's positions. she's held various positions.

she's relatively young woman, but she's but nevertheless she's impressive. that's my point. >> refreshing . she's getting >> refreshing. she's getting more day and more experience by the day and her of experience is her level of experience is probably at least as great as that of margaret thatcher in 1975, became leader 1975, when she became leader of the . the opposition. >> well, that's, uh, that's what they let's let's we've they think. let's let's we've been loads things. been discussing loads of things. and the way, the allegations and by the way, the allegations put that, guy put towards that, uh, that guy who appeared to be punching put towards that, uh, that guy who a|up,ared to be punching put towards that, uh, that guy who a|up, we, to be punching put towards that, uh, that guy who a|up, we, you e punching put towards that, uh, that guy who a|up, we, you know, :hing put towards that, uh, that guy who a|up, we, you know, he g somebody up, we, you know, he i don't think he's denied it. we've had a statement. we're still waiting to find out. uh, the full story, but let's have a look at you've been saying. look at what you've been saying. uh, terry says this. we've been talking students . talking about foreign students. yes. he sees foreign yes. uh, he says sees foreign students, sees are probably the equivalent of our a. do you think ? i think so, i think a think? i think so, i think a c is a c and a is think? i think so, i think a c isacandaisana.i think? i think so, i think a c is a c and a is an a. i mean, if you're going to admit people on with sort of shifting criteria and different values, then it doesn't work. barry doesn't really work. uh, barry says universities are not says the universities are not just grades to overseas just lowering grades to overseas students to get in the quality of the courses are lowered to help the low grade foreign students get degrees . exactly.

students get degrees. exactly. how can you take any of the degrees seriously it's always degrees seriously if it's always if suddenly you've lessened the criteria ? yeah. and it's easier criteria? yeah. and it's easier to do . well, ian says, i don't to do. well, ian says, i don't think the same. the same people who are promoting a black churchill will be so enthusiastic for a white martin luther king, which is exactly my point . i luther king, which is exactly my point. i mean, it would be a comedy, wouldn't it, if you had a white guy playing martin luther king. >> i think the whole situation, it's ridic. this might be is not too a word. actually. too strong a word. actually. ridiculous right ridiculous is the right the right as the right way? as i say, the difference is whether it's historical fact when you should. if you've got a white winston church black martin luther church and a black martin luther king. that's correct. or something. story something. that's a story or fiction where less, uh, fiction or where it's less, uh, less less decisive. >> mhm . >> mhm. >> mhm. >> i went to see the new movie colour purple last night with my wife. >> and did they change it to green? >> well, exactly. but could you imagine if all the main characters were played by white people? it would just make the whole the whole whole story, the whole ridiculous , wouldn't it? ridiculous, wouldn't it? >> do you think that there's a

lot of this sort of is kind of racism on steroids? so diversity and gone mad and inclusion sort of gone mad with people. >> people are >> and i think people are rallying against people rallying against it. people want to some normality to get back to some normality around we around these, and i think we will i we will. will i think we will. >> think. >> do you think. >> do you think. >> yeah, we'll do even after >> do you think. >> yeaseen 'll do even after >> do you think. >> yeaseen people ven after >> do you think. >> yeaseen people doingter ins you've seen people doing die ins and stuff like that. >> it's a trend the moment. >> it's a trend at the moment. nana it's going to be reversed. yeah >> well let's hope some people see sense. a of those in see sense. and a lot of those in the in particular, some see sense. and a lot of those in timean, in particular, some see sense. and a lot of those in timean, it in particular, some see sense. and a lot of those in timean, it was articular, some see sense. and a lot of those in timean, it was aticular, some see sense. and a lot of those in timean, it was a veryar, some see sense. and a lot of those in timean, it was a very leftyme see sense. and a lot of those in timean, it was a very left wing i mean, it was a very left wing media, uh, left wing media landscape until gb news came along. hopefully along. so hopefully we've balanced we're not. balanced it out. but we're not. so not completely we a lot so we're not completely we a lot of say, it's really of people say, oh, it's really right it right wing. i actually call it common do think? common sense. what do you think? gb views. get in gb news gb views. com get in touch as ever on the way the fabulous christine hamilton will be me as well. i've be joining me as well. i've forgotten his name now. how could i forget christine hamilton, kelly? they'll hamilton, danny kelly? they'll be on my panel later on. thank you so much to gary monde and also simon danczuk for joining you so much to gary monde and also they'll danczuk for joining you so much to gary monde and also they'll darjoining r joining you so much to gary monde and also they'll darjoining me ning you so much to gary monde and also they'll darjoining me forg me. they'll be joining me for the next, uh, half hour. this is gb news. the people's gb news. we are the people's channel. monologue is on channel. my monologue is on the way. talking the way. i'll be talking about the black playing white black actors playing white

characters. first, let's get characters. but first, let's get an update your weather, a an update with your weather, a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hello there and greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest eb news weather. we've got rain pushing across central areas through the next 24 hours, which could be heavy at times. the winds starting to ease a little bit. looking at the bigger picture, it's this area of low pressure which will bring the heavy parts wales, heavy rain to parts of wales, northern we move northern england. as we move through monday . northern england. as we move through monday. but it northern england. as we move through monday . but it does through into monday. but it does clear tuesday for the clear into tuesday for the rest of sunday. clearer skies across scotland after a windy day and exceptions , temperatures record exceptions, temperatures record breaking. in fact , close to 20 breaking. in fact, close to 20 celsius here overnight. we can see that rain across parts of wales, northern england, setting into the south of this fairly mild 678 degrees. a touch of frost under the clear skies for scotland , where we will be scotland, where we will be greeted by some sunshine . start greeted by some sunshine. start the day but parts of wales into

northern england it's going to be a grey, dull day . outbreaks be a grey, dull day. outbreaks of rain, which will only turn heavy as we move through into the afternoon . some localised the afternoon. some localised flooding possible , some wet flooding is possible, some wet snow over the high ground to cloudy south of this cloudy to the south of this mild. of celsius. sunny mild. highs of 14 celsius. sunny northern ireland and scotland here temperatures near average for the time of year 6 or 7. monday's rain will eventually clear through tuesday morning, but leaves a legacy of cloud across england and wales. sunny skies for northern ireland and scotland, and the wind picking up across the northwest later on.and up across the northwest later on. and here temperatures near average for the time of year still fairly mild under the cloud further south, turning wet and windy in the north as we head into wednesday . looks like head into wednesday. looks like things are heating up . things are heating up. >> boxt boilers spot of weather on gb news as . on gb news as. >> if you just tune in. welcome on board. this is gb news on tv onune on board. this is gb news on tv online and on digital radio. danny kelly and christine

hamilton will be with me next if

good afternoon. hello and welcome to gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua and for the next two hours, me and my panel will be taking on some of the big topics hitting the headlines right now. this show is all about opinion .

this show is all about opinion. it's mine, it's theirs. and of course yours . we'll be course it's yours. we'll be debating, at debating, discussing and at times disagree. but no times we will disagree. but no one will be cancelled . so one will be cancelled. so joining me today, author and broadcast christine hamilton also broadcaster and journalist danny kelly. but before we get started, let's get your latest news headlines . news headlines. >> thanks, nana. good afternoon . >> thanks, nana. good afternoon. it's 4:00. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. a murder probe has been launched after two teenage boys died following a stabbing attack in bristol. the 15 and 16 year olds were attacked in the south of the city yesterday morning. avon and somerset police say a group of people fled the scene by car. both boys died in hospital in the early hours of this morning. a 44 year old man and a 15 year old boy have been arrested and remain in custody . defence remain in custody. defence secretary grant shapps says the uk remains undaunted by yesterday's illegal attack on hms diamond . ministry of defence

hms diamond. ministry of defence confirms a warship successfully repelled a houthi drone in the red sea. the vessel used her counter defence system to destroy the drone, avoiding any injuries or damage. this is the third attempted attack on the naval vessel . third attempted attack on the naval vessel. in third attempted attack on the naval vessel . in other news, the naval vessel. in other news, the queen has left the london clinic after spending the afternoon with the king. it's the third day his majesty has spent recovering in hospital, following a procedure for an enlarged prostate. king charles is said to be doing well after the treatment . the princess of the treatment. the princess of wales is also at the same hospital following abdominal surgery. rea former surgery. charles rea former royal correspondent for the sun , royal correspondent for the sun, told gb news the support the royal family are showing each other is comforting. >> normally we don't see royals turn up at a hospital when one of them is in hospital. apart from occasionally the queen visited prince philip in one of his longest stays in hospital. but it's nice to see that they are behaving as they always are, like normal people there. and i

think this is showing, um, the way the royal family is now. and isn't it great to see a united royal family instead of the bickering that's been going on behind the scenes involving prince . andrew prince. andrew >> now kemi badenoch has told gb news, she asked the chairman of the post office to resign after she realised there were problems with the board. henry staunton stepped in the wake of the stepped down in the wake of the honzon stepped down in the wake of the horizon it scandal. stepped down in the wake of the horizon it scandal . the stepped down in the wake of the horizon it scandal. the business secretary the decision was secretary said the decision was by mutual consent after she explained to him why they needed new leadership. >> they've been having difficulties on board and difficulties on the board and when i looked at it, i decided that everything that's that given everything that's happened, given the renewed interest the new interest, in interest or the new interest, in some cases into horizon some cases into the horizon scandal , we some cases into the horizon scandal, we just some cases into the horizon scandal , we just needed someone scandal, we just needed someone different . different. >> business secretary kemi badenoch speaking there. now the united nations has fired nine members of staff following allegations that they were involved in the hamas. october seventh attacks on israel. us un secretary general antonio gutierrez says he will hold to account any un employee involved

in acts of terror . 12 staffers in acts of terror. 12 staffers have been implicated so far. another is confirmed dead and the identities of two are still being clarified . ed gutierrez is being clarified. ed gutierrez is urging countries to continue supporting the un refugee agency for palestinians after nine governments, including the uk , governments, including the uk, paused funding miri eisin aiden is from the international institute for counter—terrorism. she told gb news it's a complicated situation given the bulk of the employees are the palestinian refugees themselves , palestinian refugees themselves, and as such it's very challenging to understand that difference that we have there that they participate and are part of the palestinian people inside of the gaza strip and in this case, israel transferred hard core evidence of the actual participation of 12 employees in the attack . the attack. >> the government has reportedly granted refugee status to four rwandans, despite attempting to

pass a new law declaring it as a safe country. >> the observer says the rwandan citizens were handed asylum after their fears of persecution were ruled to be well—founded , were ruled to be well—founded, and one, a supporter of rwanda's opposition party, was granted asylum just a day after the home office told the supreme court the country was safe. the news comes ahead of a crucial week for the rwanda bill as it gets debated in the house of lords , debated in the house of lords, and two people have been arrested after protesters threw soup at the mona lisa in the louvre museum in paris. two women wearing shirts with the slogan food response crossed the security boundary and began shouting are farming system is sick. the incident came after days of protests by french farmers over low profits and red tape. farmers over low profits and red tape . the leonardo da vinci tape. the leonardo da vinci painting , tape. the leonardo da vinci painting, widely considered a masterpiece , is set behind three masterpiece, is set behind three inches of protected glass and was unharmed . this is gb news, was unharmed. this is gb news, across the uk on tv, in your car , on your digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now it's back to .

play gb news now it's back to. nana. good afternoon. >> it'sjust nana. good afternoon. >> it's just fast approaching. six minutes after 4:00. this is gb news. we are the people's channel. i'm nana akua . look, channel. i'm nana akua. look, i'm all for being colour blind, which to me means that i will treat everyone equally irrespective of the colour of their skin and will not make judgements based upon it. but if i were, say, casting a play and looking for someone to play the role of martin luther king, i wouldn't be looking for a white 9”!!- wouldn't be looking for a white guy. i got thinking about this earlier after reading a piece on danny sapani , a black actor who danny sapani, a black actor who is about to play king lear at the almeida. you may remember him from killing eve not something i watched, but he's a talented heavyweight british actor . he was talented heavyweight british actor. he was asked talented heavyweight british actor . he was asked whether it actor. he was asked whether it was okay for a black actor to play was okay for a black actor to play churchill . now, winston play churchill. now, winston churchill of course, was an inspirational statesman who led

britain to victory in the second world war and twice served as the conservative prime minister the conservative prime minister the first time in 1940 and then from 1951 to 1955. he was a rotund old white guy, so in my view, the very least requirement of anyone playing him would be that a rotund white guy . of anyone playing him would be that a rotund white guy. hang on, danny could do it. now, this is not a race issue, but one of accuracy i cannot envisage a situation where it would be seen as acceptable by most black people if nelson mandela, malcolm x, barack obama were played by white guys no more than it would be for churchill to be played by black actor and attempting to do so smacks of some sort of virtue signalling, or going too far to try to prove a non—racist agenda. when this isn't about that, it's about accuracy. i mean, could you imagine barack obama as a white guy? hahaha. diversity and inclusion on steroids . take the inclusion on steroids. take the crown based on the royal family.

it wouldn't make any sense if princess diana was played by a black actress. it would be ludicrous . princess diana was ludicrous. princess diana was white and blonde, so the best person for the role would be someone who looks a little bit like her and is the best actress there seems to be some sort of confusion with those on the woke left that anyone could do anything, and to me, that just isn't true. the reality is that some people are better placed than others to do a job, and when it comes to playing churchill, part of the criteria, in my view, is resemblance. but if we are going to go down this route, has to work both route, then it has to work both ways. remember the blackout performance of tambo and bones at stratford east theatre, at the stratford east theatre, where they had a black only performance only just for one night, but that would never have been at the other way been allowed at the other way round . being colour—blind round. being colour—blind doesn't mean you don't acknowledge colour, but in my view that you see them just as that a colour and no colour is better than another . but before

better than another. but before we get stuck into the debate, here's what else is coming up today for the great british debate this hour. i'm asking , debate this hour. i'm asking, does britain need to prioritise spending on defence? us navy secretary carlos del toro has suggested that britain should re—evaluate the size of its armed forces in response to the crisis in the middle east and threats from russia and china. but do we really have the firepower to do so? then, at 450, it's world view. we'll cross live to los angeles with paul duddridge, host of the politics people podcast, get politics people podcast, to get the latest president trump politics people podcast, to get the his st president trump politics people podcast, to get the his st ito sident trump politics people podcast, to get the his st ito appeal'rump politics people podcast, to get the his st ito appeal after and his plans to appeal after the new york jury order him to pay the new york jury order him to pay $83.3 million. plus, nikki haley is still hanging in the presidential race despite calls to drop out. and with trump threatening to permanently ban her financial backers from the maga camp, all your thoughts on donald trump ? then stay tuned at donald trump? then stay tuned at 5:00 as this week's outside . my

5:00 as this week's outside. my guest is a former towie star described as a firecracker and known for his outspoken personality . but who do you personality. but who do you think he is that's coming up in the next hour as ever? tell me about everything. what you think on everything we're discussing? email gb views gbnews.com or tweet me at . gb news. all right, tweet me at. gb news. all right, let's get started . let's welcome let's get started. let's welcome again to my panel, author and broadcaster christine hamilton, and also broadcaster and journalist danny kelly. right . journalist danny kelly. right. >> that was very i mean , what >> that was very i mean, what a dig at danny. >> well , well dig at danny. >> well, well you could play churchill couldn't you . churchill couldn't you. >> well, i'm more qualified to play >> well, i'm more qualified to play churchill than the other lad. >> yes. >> yes. >> aren't i. >> aren't i. >> well yeah. well i think i mean people oh you mean people will say, oh you mean people will say, oh you mean racist. i don't think so. i think if watching it think that if i'm watching it and churchill turns and winston churchill turns out to svelte, really to be some svelte, really hot looking black guy, i'd like, looking black guy, i'd be like, no, doesn't the whole looking black guy, i'd be like, no, d

nonsense on stilts. >> and it is to make white people feel guilty because they are black man are objecting to a black man doing anything. >> mean, it is, as >> basically. i mean, it is, as you you need to you said, you need to play martin luther or of the martin luther king or any of the great heroes. obama great black heroes. obama goodness white guy, goodness knows, for a white guy, would utterly . unacceptable. would be utterly. unacceptable. i mean, how, for example , it i mean, how, for example, it isn't just colour either. how, for example . would you make the for example. would you make the stephen hawking movie? >> i can't remember what it was called. eddie redmayne got an oscar for it. uh if you had to have a guy with motor neurone disease in a wheelchair , it disease in a wheelchair, it couldn't be done. so it isn't just colour that's up for grabs in these things, and they're now saying that can only have saying that you can only have a deaf playing a deaf person deaf actor playing a deaf person and all that sort of thing. it is a nonsense. acting. is a nonsense. it is acting. it's acting. >> danny sapani actually said that as long as that yes, it be okay as long as it would ways round. it would work both ways round. so he's actually not okay. i'm saying not okay. saying no, it's not okay. it's not okay. but i'm. but i'm agreeing with second part, agreeing with the second part, that are going to do that if you are going to do that, have to it that, then it does have to be it can't just be a white person, a

black can play a white black person can play a white person, it can't be the person, but it can't be the other way it's not okay other way around. it's not okay either think either way. i think it's historically either way. i think it's histit's ally either way. i think it's histit's ridiculous. >> it's ridiculous. >> it's ridiculous. >> you're >> and when you're using a figure such as winston churchill, going to churchill, who i'm not going to i'm going to say this casually but handedly, is but single handedly, and that is a generalisation. it a casual generalisation. but it was his leadership was this man and his leadership that single handedly, quote unquote, that single handedly, quote unqu0'and you're it nazis. and when you're using it to push a narrative, an ideological woke narrative, almost ideological woke narrative, almvast majority the country the vast majority of the country who sick to the back teeth who are sick to the back teeth of and as soon as of all of this. and as soon as you object, then, as christine just pointed i think just pointed out, then i think what it's a constant what it is, it's a constant reminder of our white privilege. yeah. christine and my white privilege. object to privilege. and if we object to it, say, why are you it, they would say, why are you objecting? wrong objecting? yes. what's wrong with playing a white with a black lad playing a white lad? but okay, lad? and i would say, but okay, but important to you? but why is it important to you? it's to you. why it's important to you. so why are you doing it? so you answer that question first and then i'll as to why i get fed i'll respond as to why i get fed up you're because they're >> you're because they're doing it for a reason. >> it's absolutely. >> it's absolutely. >> it's absolutely. >> it's why . enough, you know, >> it's why. enough, you know, screw faces is white screw into our faces is white privilege. privilege? i privilege. white privilege? i mean, day, a black mean, the other day, a black a hypothetical situation, by the way, insisted that way, nobody's insisted that a black it. but the other

black guy play it. but the other the other day, a white i can't remember her name, but a white. i'm sorry, a black actress actually the part actually took the part of richard the now, richard richard the third. now, richard the person . he the third was a person. he lived, he was white. lived, he existed. he was white. so how on earth can he be? if it's a story, a fiction, it doesn't really matter. i mean, eartha kitt played batman. she was a woman black and batman was a woman and black and batman apparently was white. but that's apparently was white. but that's a fictional character. if it's an historical character, you have to stick to the truth and the facts . the facts. >> why not have a woman in a hijab, woman in hijab, a disabled woman in a wheelchair, hijab, wheelchair, wearing a hijab, playing but wheelchair, wearing a hijab, play not? but wheelchair, wearing a hijab, play not? sounds but wheelchair, wearing a hijab, play not? sounds ridiculous,: why not? it sounds ridiculous, but it's on the same side of the street. it's on that side of the street, the same side of the street, the same side of the street that they're pushing. so i could say to them, okay, well have a black lad playing churchill, but i'd like to suggest, don't have suggest, why don't you have a woman hijab, in a woman in a hijab, in a wheelchair winston wheelchair playing winston churchill? would say, churchill? and they would say, that's i'd say, that's ridiculous. and i'd say, well, ridiculous. you're well, it's ridiculous. you're doing the black lad. exactly. it's same of the street. >> the whole world knows what winston churchill looks like. >> the whole world knows what winzwholelurchill looks like. >> the whole world knows what winzwhole world. looks like. >> the whole world knows what winzwhole world. ityoks like. >> the whole world knows what winzwhole world. ityoknotze. >> the whole world knows what winzwhole world. ityoknot the the whole world. it is not the

whole you know what whole world. you know what i mean? it isn't just british mean? it isn't just a british thing. he known throughout thing. he is known throughout the said, the world for. for as you said, a white. was the word you a white. what was the word you used? rotund. rotund? like daddy. >> i do a great winston churchill. >> i do a great winston chlit'sll. >> i do a great winston chlit's a visual don't >> it's a visual one. i don't know if. okay it's really quite blunt and it's. >> you're not the other way round. >> no. winston churchill, for the benefit of those listening on the radio. no i'm not. >> there are some iconic photographs of winston churchill, the victory churchill, given the victory sign the wrong way. the wrong way round. so it would be the offensive way round. but now it's that way round. >> you hang on. >> you hang on. >> i know i stuck historically, i was accurate, which is what we're talking about . i was accurate, which is what we're talking about. no, no it's a that's what winston churchill used to do. >> he didn't . used to do. >> he didn't. no no he did it that way. >> no he didn't. he flicked the v's the wrong way round. i'll prove it. >> no i'm not saying that that's wrong. but if you do flick the v's the wrong way around. it is still swearing . no, i'm talking still swearing. no, i'm talking about. >> you're in trouble. just accept it . you're in trouble.

accept it. you're in trouble. >> no, my whole point is about being historically accurate . being historically accurate. >> no. >> no. >> i'm gonna find a photograph of it. >> that's a good point, though, i you. yeah. all i'm saying i hear you. yeah. all i'm saying is you can be. but you are still swearing doing it. is you can be. but you are still swel'mig doing it. is you can be. but you are still swel'm being doing it. is you can be. but you are still swel'm being historically ng it. >> i'm being historically accurate, which is. >> what all agree with. >> well, i agree, mean, but >> well, i agree, i mean, but that's why i'm apologising. >> you're still swearing that's why i'm apologising. >> other you're still swearing that's why i'm apologising. >> other yother still swearing that's why i'm apologising. >> other yotherstillotherring the other the other the other slightly is slightly related subject is there a of controversy there was a lot of controversy when mirren played golda when helen mirren played golda meir jewish. meir because she's not jewish. >> know if anybody seen >> i don't know if anybody seen the completely the film. golda it is completely brilliant. it is. helen mirren the film. golda it is completely bra iant. it is. helen mirren the film. golda it is completely bra astonishingielen mirren the film. golda it is completely bra astonishing it's1 mirren the film. golda it is completely bra astonishing it's the rren the film. golda it is completely bra astonishing it's the best is a astonishing it's the best transformation is a astonishing it's the best transfo and:ion is a astonishing it's the best transfo and margaret thatcher. is a astonishing it's the best transfo anynotargaret thatcher. is a astonishing it's the best transfo anynot she'st thatcher. is a astonishing it's the best transfo anynot she's not atcher. is a astonishing it's the best transfo anynot she's not jewish. but she's not she's not jewish. so there was huge uproar. why so there was a huge uproar. why should her? she's an should she play her? she's an actress it actress and she played it brilliantly. and i defy anybody else to better. else to do it better. >> i want you your >> i just want to bring you your point so about point earlier, though, so about having actor playing having a disabled actor playing a you a disabled character, um, you were they should or were saying that they should or they shouldn't? >> just saying i'm >> no, i was just saying i'm taking an example, which >> no, i was just saying i'm taki|stephen example, which >> no, i was just saying i'm taki|stephen hawkins,mple, which >> no, i was just saying i'm taki|stephen hawkins,mplehadich was stephen hawkins, who had motor he was motor neurone disease. he was incredibly disabled towards the end. had stephen end. an actor who had stephen hawking, his disabilities couldn't have played the film because he couldn't have done the whole sort life the whole his whole sort of life journey. so is, you know,

journey. so there is, you know, there's limit. and yes, of there's a limit. and yes, of course, i understand that, that if in if you've got somebody in a wheelchair plot, in the wheelchair in the plot, in the script, better have script, it's better to have someone wheelchair someone who is in a wheelchair playing that. you can you playing that. but you can you can stretch that elastic too far. and a black winston churchill, far. and a black winston chldoill, far. and a black winston chldo you just just briefly, if >> do you just just briefly, if i may. do you know the oscars right. whoever nominates him, they got the of whoever on they got the board of whoever on they got the board of whoever on the they won't allow the oscars. they won't allow a best picture be best picture movie to be nominated unless it fulfils a certain criteria of diversity. nominated unless it fulfils a ceryes. criteria of diversity. nominated unless it fulfils a ceryes. critforget diversity. nominated unless it fulfils a ceryes. crit forget historical so yes. so forget historical accuracies or inaccuracies . if accuracies or inaccuracies. if there's a movie about churchill, a blockbuster hollywood movie about churchill and it about winston churchill and it doesn't this criteria doesn't meet this criteria of having so many hispanics, so many , so many having so many hispanics, so many then , so many having so many hispanics, so many then it , so many having so many hispanics, so many then it won't , so many having so many hispanics, so many then it won't get so many blacks, then it won't get nominated for an award. >> it's difficult. it's >> no. it's difficult. it's difficult because there was a point where there was point where i think there was a necessity to have sort necessity to have some sort of insistence you try and insistence that you try and broaden the pool of those people who are coming to the table to be part of your organisation or whatever, that that that whatever, but that that that point now and, you point has passed. now and, you know, it was understandable. i think , at the very beginning. think, at the very beginning. but i do feel that that point has passed. now, there are

people black who own people who black people who own things, people, things, black white people, muslims, from muslims, this that people from all you can be all walks of life. you can be you can be, can do well you can be, you can do well irrespective of. there's no disadvantage doing disadvantage to me for doing anything dark anything because i'm dark skinned. in fact, if anything, i've got more of an advantage on you guys because there are things i can do that you things that i can do that you there are a lot things that there are a lot of things that i could do. >> oh, you don't you couldn't come the black only come to the black only performance and performance of tambo and bones on that night. >> want to go. no, >> i wouldn't want to go. no, but you me i've answered. >> but people often think i look like. greek man. >> like a greek man. >> like a greek man. >> i've got a certain hue to my skin. i'm not as. i'm not as pale for example. pale as christine, for example. in , john, the security in fact, john, the security guard, the mixed race lad , he guard, the mixed race lad, he said to me, are you mixed race as well? so really he did . as well? so i really he did. that's after i'd spent a week in the sun. >> oh, i see you don't look mixed race now. >> i don't know, ijust mixed race now. >> i don't know, i just look like guy, a fat greek like a greek guy, a fat greek bloke . bloke. >> don't. you look like >> you don't. you look like a british bloke, do i? >> think i'm mediterranean. >> no, you look well. come on. what think? what do people think? >> going to your point, i >> going back to your point, i wouldn't either.

wouldn't go either. >> do you know, we've >> i wouldn't do you know, we've come a long, way when i was come a long, long way when i was growing main saturday growing up, the main saturday night, night night, the main saturday night entertainment on television, the whole entertainment on television, the wh(what the and white >> what was the black and white minstrels now? people now would be beyond about be horrified beyond belief about that. moved a hell that. so we've moved a hell of a long way. but there's no need to go the pendulum far in the other. the i think you just >> go to the i think you just there's a level of realism that you maintain. i don't you want to maintain. i don't think anything think there's anything any problem. mean, a problem. i mean, look, if a black guy wants play and problem. i mean, look, if a bléappearsvants play and problem. i mean, look, if a bléappears t01ts play and problem. i mean, look, if a bléappears to be play and problem. i mean, look, if a bléappears to be the .ay and problem. i mean, look, if a bléappears to be the best and problem. i mean, look, if a blé appears to be the best actor, he appears to be the best actor, and he's quite happy sort and he's i'm quite happy to sort of suspend disbelief it's of suspend my disbelief if it's nothing but reality, the nothing but but in reality, the truth rather see truth is, i'd rather see somebody who kind of looks like exactly somebody who kind of looks like exaand an historical >> and if it's an historical character, they must the character, they must be the colour in history. >> well, what do you think? gb views and news. we views and gb news. com are we wrong? can you the white guy wrong? can you can the white guy play wrong? can you can the white guy play obama and play barack obama and malcolm x and mandela? do you and nelson mandela? what do you think gb news tv, think this is? gb news on tv, onune think this is? gb news on tv, online digital radio. online and on digital radio. coming worldview i'll be coming up, worldview two i'll be crossing to los angeles to crossing live to los angeles to get the latest from what's going on up next, it's on in the us. but up next, it's time the great british time for the great british debate. this hour i'm asking, does need prioritise does britain need to prioritise spending defence? i've got to

spending on defence? i've got to pull up right now on twitter asking very question. asking you that very question. does britain need to prioritise spending on defence? semi your thoughts ? email gb views at gb thoughts? email gb views at gb news. com or tweet me at gb news. com or tweet me at gb news. your vote now

with me, michael portillo, gb news. >> britain's new . >> britain's new. channel. >> britain's new. channel. >> good afternoon. if you've just tuned in where have you

been. it's fine. it's all right i don't buy it. not without a good reason. 22 minutes after 4:00, i'm nana akua . we are the 4:00, i'm nana akua. we are the people's channel. we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. it's time now for the great british debate. hour i'm british debate. this hour i'm asking, need asking, does britain need to prioritise on defence? prioritise spending on defence? us navy secretary carlos del toro has suggested that britain should revise the size of its armed forces in response to the crisis in the middle east, and threats from russia and china. now we emphasise the importance of the uk investing more in its navy and reinforcing the army , navy and reinforcing the army, especially in the face of current global threats. while the uk and the us are currently engagedin the uk and the us are currently engaged in a bombing campaign against the houthis in yemen and to be fair, it's in response , as to be fair, it's in response, as a in response to the houthis firing at them, del toro indicated that there was no immediate need for britain to increase its contribution and all of this, of course, comes as the head of the british army recently warned that it is too

small to fight an all out war without conscription , prompting without conscription, prompting discussions about the need for a reassessment of the uk's military capabilities and spending priorities . so the spending priorities. so the great british debate this hour, i'm asking, does britain need to prioritise spending on defence? well, i'm joined now by simon danczuk former labour mp gary mond, chairman of the national jewish gewolb , a jewish assembly, roger gewolb, a former adviser to the uk treasury, and james marlow, foreign affairs and defence analyst. okay well i'm going to come straight to you, james marlow, what are your thoughts? >> well, one of the ways to obtain the money, which we desperately need in this country is to look at where some of the money is going to overseas. >> and one of those organisations is the united nafions organisations is the united nations works and relief agency , nations works and relief agency, which of course is the was set up its first operational in may 1950. and it was up the objective clearly was actually to look at the palestinian

refugees and the united nations reckoned that there was about 650,000 of them that fled after the 1948 war. and this united nafions the 1948 war. and this united nations relief organisation , its nations relief organisation, its objective was to keep them as refugees, specifically in the gaza. now, let me just give you a couple of examples. for example, right now we're hearing quite a lot of the jabalia refugee camp, and there are several others. these palestinians are born in gaza, and they're still known as and yet they're still known as refugees. the original 650,000 refugees. the original 650,000 refugees are many of them are no longer with us. but it's their sons, their grandsons that goes on for eight generations. >> so can you make your point? >> so can you make your point? >> the point is that that is where because britain, america , where because britain, america, france. but we're specifically talking about britain . britain talking about britain. britain gives millions and millions per year to this organisation , and year to this organisation, and it's simply just perpetuating the actual problem of palestinian refugees. so that is one way that you can actually grab back that money and that is the starter. and just if i can

just finish the point on the united nations unrwa organisation that this is going to be a way to actually slowly start to disembark from this organisation because it is there specifically to keep palestinian refugees as refugees and as a weapon against israel. so that's one way that you can get back some money. >> some people might argue that putting money into places putting money into those places actually, helps actually, uh, sort of helps those and stops the mass those areas and stops the mass migration of to this migration of people to this country and those of country and all those sort of things. that's plus, some people might argue that needs to might argue that money needs to be but ultimately, should be there, but ultimately, should they defence. they be prioritised defence. james, if you could just say yes or no so i can move on. or 110 50 i can move on. or no so i can move on. >> well, yes, you should be prioritising prioritising defence. that defence. yes. but you need that money that's the money and that's one of the places where can get the places where you can get the money from roger gewolb. >> think there are two points. >> i think there are two points. >> i think there are two points. >> we can all see very >> i think we can all see very clearly do . if we look clearly what cuts do. if we look at the nhs , police and crime, at the nhs, police and crime, education etc. i think the defence cuts, reducing our military to one half of where it

should be. according to the experts who have spoken recently, was a mistake . and recently, was a mistake. and i think it needs to be beefed up as soon as possible. i don't know about option a, conscription. the second point is i've just come back from the states where i spoke with president trump and a number of his people. i didn't get to meet biden, but i spoke with his people, and in them i spoke to some very top geopolitical experts and both sides . they all experts and both sides. they all agree now that putin is behind all of this , he's pulling the all of this, he's pulling the strings with iran . he's pulling strings with iran. he's pulling the strings with china , hamas, the strings with china, hamas, hezbollah and the rest . and hezbollah and the rest. and we're not even sure what they're playbook is. the attacks that we're making in retaliate to the houthis are said these experts, exactly what they want us to do. it's pretty scary stuff. so, yes, i think we need to beef up our military as quickly as possible. >> all right. um, uh, gary mond, i completely agree.

>> i was horrified to read that the royal navy lacked the missiles to fire against the houthis on land in yemen . and if houthis on land in yemen. and if we can't do that , we become a we can't do that, we become a joke internationally . we to joke internationally. we to actually have major warships in the red sea, which lack the firepower we need to spend a lot more on defence, without a doubt, not just for now , but doubt, not just for now, but going forward. and we need , as going forward. and we need, as james marlow was saying at the start, to look at areas where we should cut on spending. and for me , net zero is one of the main me, net zero is one of the main areas when we talk, when keir starmer was talking about £28 billion, james was talking about millions. talking about millions. i'd be talking about billions millions. i'd be talking about billsimon yes, we need to >> simon danczuk yes, we need to increase defence spending , increase defence spending, especially at this time. everybody agrees that the world is a more dangerous place, whether it's the red sea and the houthi terrorists there , whether houthi terrorists there, whether it's the middle east, ukraine situation, china and taiwan , the situation, china and taiwan, the world is becoming increasingly , world is becoming increasingly, uh, it's difficult . and so we uh, it's difficult. and so we need a much stronger defence

force. and i think we spend about 2.25% gdp at the moment that has to get up to 3% of gdp. if we're going to be able to defend ourselves effectively. >> well , it's defend ourselves effectively. >> well, it's i think it's currently 2.3% of gdp at the moment . but currently 2.3% of gdp at the moment. but in the currently 2.3% of gdp at the moment . but in the 80s, we were moment. but in the 80s, we were spending over 5% of our gdp. 5.5% actually in 1984, which is considerable. but if you look at other countries like norway and also sweden, who actually have got a compulsory national service, they only spend about 2.1% and 2.3, respectively . so 2.1% and 2.3, respectively. so it is quite interesting. do you think that perhaps there's a case for us to bring back things like national service? because i've that been i've been saying that i've been touting along. james touting it all along. uh, james marlow , do you think that we marlow, do you think that we should bring back national should maybe bring back national service? >> we! service? >> a report when i was >> i heard a report when i was driving in over here on one of the stations that had the radio stations that had actually that, it actually said that, i think it was 40 45% of people would was 40 or 45% of people would refuse to national service if refuse to do national service if indeed government indeed the government implemented that. so the general feeling government feeling is that the government will not implement that no matter government matter what government comes

into . but into power in the future. but nevertheless, there is a good argument to say, not just to join the army and fight for britain, but actually it's good discipline to learn some basic skills. you can get that from the army, where we see that a lot of young people today seem to learn all their skills from tiktok places like tiktok and other places like that, the place that, and that's not the place where you're actually going to be able to develop yourself, your self—development. be able to develop yourself, youit's lf—development. be able to develop yourself, you it's terrible lopment. be able to develop yourself, youit's terrible .ypment. be able to develop yourself, youit's terrible . but,nt. be able to develop yourself, youit's terrible . but, you know, >> it's terrible. but, you know, because all of this, all this anti—semitic ism that we've been seeing , there's all seeing on tiktok, there's all these from the river to the seas, as if they're doing some sort dance. and it's like, sort of dance. and it's like, hang this serious. so hang on, this is serious. so a lot of people don't what lot of people don't know what they're looking they're talking about. looking through so it's not through tiktok. so it's not the best roger gewolb do through tiktok. so it's not the bestthink? roger gewolb do through tiktok. so it's not the bestthink? ro you gewolb do through tiktok. so it's not the bestthink? royou thinkb do through tiktok. so it's not the bestthink? royou think perhapso you think? do you think perhaps there's national there's a place for national service, apparently service, even though apparently 45% the people do it? >> yes, i think there well could be in the future. um, as somebody said on another program, i was on on gb news yesterday. uh, our parents fought in the war. um this generation has been fortunate in

that, sure, there have been skirmishes and small wars all over the place, but nothing like what our parents lived through. and uh, our kids might have to fight again. so the last thing we want to do is be unprepared. and there has to be perhaps some sort of conscription . if this sort of conscription. if this escalates to a certain point in the near future . and yeah, there the near future. and yeah, there has to be some way to bring in some of that 45. but we've got to beef up our military. some of that 45. but we've got to beef up our military . yes. to beef up our military. yes. >> yeah. so in terms of and briefly, gary, because we're running out of time. um, so gary, a lot of people would argue that say more money should go to the nhs or other things rather than, uh, national rather than national service and military things . would you what military things. would you what would you say to that national service should never have been stopped place. stopped in the first place. >> this country going to >> how is this country going to react this react when possibly later this yean react when possibly later this year, the new president year, emily, the new president of decides to of argentina, decides to re—invade the falklands ? re—invade the falklands? >> well, he might not. you don't know whether he will or not. don't know. he not. he don't know. he will not. he might not.

>> he's certainly very nationalist that regard. >> he's certainly very natand.ist that regard. >> he's certainly very natand simon hat regard. >> he's certainly very natand simon danczuk.i. >> and simon danczuk. >> and simon danczuk. >> i've always been a >> yeah, i've always been a supporter conscription, supporter of conscription, actually. you devise actually. i think you can devise actually. i think you can devise a really smart, uh, approach which allows young people to either go into the military or to go into voluntary service, spend 12 months or two years, 18 months, uh, doing conscription. and i think that will for be the benefit of the country. actually. >> would you make it compulsory? >> would you make it compulsory? >> well, i would make it compulsory. we have to re—establish patriotism in this country. we have build pride country. we have to build pride back into this country. and i think would be a significant think it would be a significant part of doing that. >> right. so, so i'm >> all right. so, so, so i'm going to ask you questions going to ask you two questions then. is um, then. so the first one is um, simon danczuk, should we, um, should prioritise defence and should we prioritise defence and would make national service would you make national service compulsory ? yes, yes. so both compulsory? yes, yes. so both uh, gary eamonn same question. yes and yes. yes and yes. crikey. roger gewolb same to you. >> yes and yes. wow >> yes and yes. wow >> uh, james marley. >> uh, james marley. >> well , therefore i have to say >> well, therefore i have to say yes. and, um, yes, yes, yeah. >> oh, some people would say no, but nobody this panel. but but nobody on this panel. but what you think? oh, maybe

what do you think? oh, maybe somebody at home thinks it's a no gb views at gb news. no and no. gb views at gb news. com tweet me now. i'd love to hear your thoughts. thank you so much. gary hammond much. simon danczuk gary hammond roger marlow. much. simon danczuk gary hammond rogthis marlow. much. simon danczuk gary hammond rogthis is marlow. much. simon danczuk gary hammond rogthis is gb marlow. much. simon danczuk gary hammond rogthis is gb news marlow. much. simon danczuk gary hammond rogthis is gb news oniarlow. much. simon danczuk gary hammond rogthis is gb news on tvow. so this is gb news live on tv onune so this is gb news live on tv online and on digital radio coming up. it's time for the great debate this great british debate this hour. i'm , does britain to i'm asking, does britain need to prioritise spending on defence? you'll thoughts of my you'll hear the thoughts of my panel you'll hear the thoughts of my panel, broadcaster and journalist kelly and journalist danny kelly and author broadcaster christine author and broadcaster christine hamilton . still to come at five, hamilton. still to come at five, my outside guests . i'll give you my outside guests. i'll give you some clues. they're former some clues. they're a former towie star who revealed a secret family tragedy . is that all i've family tragedy. is that all i've got? i'll try and give you some more. take a guess. who do you think first though? let's get your news headlines . good afternoon. >> it's 433. i'm sofia wenzler in the gb newsroom . a murder in the gb newsroom. a murder probe has been launched after two teenage boys died following a stabbing attack in bristol. the 15 and 16 year olds were attacked in the south of the city yesterday morning. avon and

somerset police say a group of people fled the scene by car. both boys died in hospital in the early hours of this morning. a 44 year old man and a 15 year old boy have been arrested and remain in custody . defence remain in custody. defence secretary grant shapps says the uk remains undaunted by yesterday's illegal attack on hms diamond . ministry of defence hms diamond. ministry of defence confirmed the warship successfully repelled a houthi drone in the red sea. the vessel used her counter defence system to destroy the drone, avoiding any injuries or damage. this. is the third attempt to attack on the third attempt to attack on the naval vessel. the queen has left the london clinic after spending the afternoon with the king. it's the third day his majesty has spent recovering in hospital following a procedure for an enlarged prostate. king charles is said to be doing well after the treatment. the princess of also at the princess of wales is also at the same following same hospital following abdominal surgery , and two abdominal surgery, and two people have been arrested after protesters threw soup at the mona lisa in the louvre museum

in paris. two women wearing shirts with the slogan food response crossed the security boundary and began shouting our farming system is sick! the incident came after days of protest by french farmers over low profits and red tape. the leonardo da vinci painting, widely considered a masterpiece, is set behind three inches of protective glass and was unharmed , and you can get more unharmed, and you can get more on all those stories by visiting our website at gbnews.com. now it's back to . nana. it's back to. nana. >> thank you sofia . just coming >> thank you sofia. just coming up to 35 minutes after 4:00 if you just tuned in. welcome on board. coming up. it's time for world view. we'll cross live to los angeles to get the latest from what's going on in the united states . but up it's united states. but up next, it's time for the great british debate hour. i'm debate this hour. and i'm asking, need asking, does britain need to prioritise on defence? prioritise spending on defence? i've got to pull up right now on x asking you that very question. send me your thoughts, email gbviews@gbnews.uk or tweet me at

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sunday mornings from 930 on gb news in 2024. >> gb news is britain's election channel. come and join me this thursday in scunthorpe live by scanning the qr code or going on gb news comm to get your ticket for the event, we'll be discussing things like why the green agenda is risking jobs in places like scunthorpe .

places like scunthorpe. >> good afternoon . if you just >> good afternoon. if you just tuned in. welcome. this is gb news. we are the people's channel i'm nana akua. it's coming up to 39 minutes after 4:00. we're live on tv , online 4:00. we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. it's time now for the great british debate. this hour. and i'm asking, does britain need to prioritise spending on defence? the us navy secretary, carlos del toro, has suggested that the uk should reassess its armed forces size in light of the middle east crisis, and threats from russia and china . he from russia and china. he highlighted importance of highlighted the importance of increased investment in the navy, the army to navy, strengthening the army to address the current global threats. all of this amid the ongoing campaigns . of course, ongoing campaigns. of course, we've got the attacks from the houthis in yemen . uh, del toro houthis in yemen. uh, del toro noted that the immediate additional contributions from britain may not be necessary , britain may not be necessary, but the discussions stem from the british army's recent warning about the size of inadequacy for an all out war against without conscription, and this is quite a serious

thing. our army is depleting, and a lot of people don't want to do national service. so for the great british debate this houn the great british debate this hour, asking , does britain hour, i'm asking, does britain need prioritise spending on need to prioritise spending on defence? or let's see what my panel of that. i'm joined panel make of that. i'm joined by author broadcaster by author and broadcaster christine and also christine hamilton and also broadcaster journalist danny broadcaster and journalist danny kelly. don't look up, christine. don't worry. you're okay. >> sorry . >> i'm so sorry. >> did you know that this was happening? yes i was just happening? yes i do, i was just looking my. looking at my. >> i've got rather a lot of notes about defence. i was just wondering which ones look wondering which ones to look at. >> well, you've >> all right. well, well, you've got i'll start with christine. >> start with. no, start with danny. >> that'll teach you. >> that'll teach you. >> you didn't go. >> yes. well, you didn't go. >> yes. well, you didn't go. >> went first last time? >> who went first last time? >> who went first last time? >> goes first. danny. go on. >> i would listen to our american friends, our american generals, he the generals, the former. was he the current the us army or current head of the us army or the head of the army? the former head of the us army? look i am concerned about potential and potential escalation, and i really military really am. and if military leaders say that we may have to turn some of turn to some sort of conscription, that conscription, then that reinforces concern. now, reinforces my concern. now, putin apparently spending 40% reinforces my concern. now, pu gdp pparently spending 40% reinforces my concern. now, pugdp onirently spending 40% reinforces my concern. now, pugdp on defence. spending 40% reinforces my concern. now, pugdp on defence. wow. ing 40% reinforces my concern. now, pugdp on defence. wow. now,3% reinforces my concern. now, pugdp on defence. wow. now, ix) of gdp on defence. wow. now, i thought, is that just a bit of

propaganda? how do we know that's true? but then if you just think about it, he's having to billions pounds on to spend billions of pounds on this so that money has this war. and so that money has to from now, if to come from somewhere. now, if there's a shortfall so 40. so where's the shortfall going to come it's going to come come from? it's going to come from education, russian education, care. from education, russian edu> well, that's that's what we're to spending.

we're meant to be spending. so we're meant to be spending. so we're spending on we're spending 4.3% of gdp on basically defence, 2% to nato and two point no. >> well , i'm and two point no. >> well, i'm not sure. no, i think i don't think it's as big as that. no >> so the 2.3 includes the two. >> so the 2.3 includes the two. >> i think if it does get alex. >> i think if it does get alex. >> so that means we're just spending 0.3. >> so the umbrella okay. so >> so the nato umbrella okay. so i it amounts to the same i think it amounts to the same thing spending more than our europe meets. >> meets neighbours. >> yeah. meets neighbours. yeah. yeah. on nato. >> and whenever i hear an ex squaddie or an ex general or an ex major, they say that we're depleting our own forces . and depleting our own forces. and i defer to them. who am i to say they are wrong? >> the last time that our recruitment goals were met was in 2010, and now in a few years time, we're going to have is it 75,000 people in the army ? an 75,000 people in the army? an army? the definition of an army is people. so we haven't is 100,000 people. so we haven't even by definition . even got an army by definition. right? yeah. i mean, it's appalling and when i was growing up, the cold war came to an end and the berlin wall came down and the berlin wall came down and we all thought everything was fine. a combination of

thatcher reagan . um, thatcher and reagan. um, gorbachev, gorbachev , gorbachev, gorbachev, pro—western. yeah, exactly. and we all thought, phew, we can breathe again. there isn't going to be another ghastly war all all that has changed. and people might think, well, we're miles away russian border, might think, well, we're miles awawe're russian border, might think, well, we're miles awawe're part russian border, might think, well, we're miles awawe're part ofissian border, might think, well, we're miles awawe're part ofissian lander, might think, well, we're miles awawe're part ofissian [and if but we're part of nato. and if this conflict at the moment the ukrainians are dying on our behalf , they are defending the we st. west. >> well, you say that are >> well, you say that they are well , no, no, you say that. but well, no, no, you say that. but that's necessarily true. that's not necessarily true. i mean, they're dying because they didn't once. we don't know what putin intentions but they putin intentions are, but they are fighting western ideals putin intentions are, but they are 'they ng western ideals putin intentions are, but they are 'they are western ideals putin intentions are, but they are 'they are on alestern ideals putin intentions are, but they are 'they are on the em ideals putin intentions are, but they are 'they are on the frontieals putin intentions are, but they are 'they are on the front line. and they are on the front line. >> and if putin steps over that line into a nato line and into a nato neighbouring country like finland somewhere, are neighbouring country like finla boundomewhere, are neighbouring country like finla bound t0|ewhere, are neighbouring country like finla bound to go here, are neighbouring country like finla bound to go and. are neighbouring country like finla bound to go and helpare duty bound to go and help finland because we're members of nato. >> just to ea" >> and just to confirm and clarify, it's 2.3, including including, yes, i'm going say including, yes, i'm going to say this 4. >> if we were spending on our >> if we were spending 4% on our defence, would defence, that would be wonderful. 84. wonderful. we'd have 84. >> were spending 5.5, i know, >> we were spending 5.5, i know, but that's what i and a tory government has, has allowed this to slip down and down and down. >> and the first duty of any

government is defence. and you know, i mean we've know, we've got i mean we've got, we've got battleships with no we've got an no guns and we've got an unbelievable aircraft unbelievable an aircraft carriers aircraft. we carriers with no aircraft. we can't inland targets. can't even bomb inland targets. and . in in the can't even bomb inland targets. and. in in the for the can't even bomb inland targets. and . in in the for the gaza and. in in the for the gaza conflict because we haven't got the guns on the ships. >> look at the situation we're in. we've got the nhs on its knees. you know, there are so knees. uh you know, there are so many public services that are messed up. there's more money in there. >> running a country is like running business. so if there running a business. so if there is no threat, if there's no potential war the corner, potential war around the corner, if running the country, if i was running the country, well but your guard well. ah, but you let your guard down. okay, so running a country is a business. you is like running a business. you can actually, uh, take money from pump it from the defence and pump it into because there into the nhs because there is no immediate threat. but then you have you land in a situation have to. you land in a situation which puts a precarious which puts you in a precarious position, potentially we position, like potentially we are you to sort of are so you have to like, sort of be soothsayer and try and be a soothsayer and try and predict what's going to happen in future. bearing in in the future. and bearing in mind nato , you could mind we're in nato, you could say, well, i'll tell you what, we've got many allies, we'll we've got so many allies, we'll put of billion pounds we've got so many allies, we'll put defence of billion pounds we've got so many allies, we'll put defence of billi nhs. unds

from defence to the nhs. >> no, even you're >> no, but even if you're running business, you still running a business, you still need and that's need your insurance and that's what i would say your army is. so insurance so you would pay insurance anyway. say that so you would pay insurance anyvis'. say that so you would pay insurance anyvis a say that so you would pay insurance anyvis a fixed say that so you would pay insurance anyvis a fixed cost say that so you would pay insurance anyvis a fixed cost thaty that so you would pay insurance anyvis a fixed cost that yourt that is a fixed cost that you should continue to do, irrespective of whether you believe or believe there is a threat or not. anyway, a threat is not. and anyway, a threat is not. and anyway, a threat is not. you don't know that not. you don't know what that threat a war is threat is. an army is a war is usually often one that is almost by mean, saw by surprise. i mean, you saw putin's borders putin's troops on the borders of ukraine. appear that ukraine. it didn't appear that they going to go in and they were going to go in and they were going to go in and they did. you know they did. so you don't know whether you threat or not. >> but the only way you defeat your enemies is by strength, strength. it comes through strength, we strength, not weakness. and we have shown that we are incredibly with incredibly weak with conventional forces. i mean, putin laughing all putin must be laughing all the way whatever, um, way to the to the whatever, um, and allow our defences to and to allow our defences to have run down to quite such a level when we've got now, level when all we've got now, we've as secretary of we've got shapps as secretary of state, that shapps and no ships. i mean, which would you rather have ships or shapps? >> many defences we >> how many defences have we had now? may i just once now? may i, may i just once against that russia are against say that russia are going to test nato ? going to test nato? >> of course. >> of course. >> of course are. >> of course they are. >> of course they are. >> to they >> that's they all go to they are to nato country are going to test a nato country to respond

accordingly. >> they are going to look at us. they're going to think, well, the brits do anything the brits won't do anything about unless they about it unless they unless they will retaliate. oh i've got your finished. >> i know, but we've got to get the very important point to make the very important point to make the welcome the great british voices. had plenty of time voices. you had plenty of time to do it the show. the to do it on the show. the opportunity to be show opportunity to be on the show and what they think and tell us what they think about topics we're about the topics we're discussing. let's to discussing. and let's go to miranda the miranda richardson, not the miranda richardson, not the miranda our miranda richardson, but our miranda richardson, but our miranda there miranda richardson. she's there in sorry had in northamptonshire. sorry i had to she to cut christine off. she had a serious point to but serious point to make, but this is into your time. is she's eating into your time. miranda. did. honestly, miranda. she did. honestly, do you what nana? you know what nana? >> coming at this from >> i'm coming at this from a little different little bit of a different angle. >> our forces, you know, we >> so our forces, you know, we were pride of the world. our were the pride of the world. our forces . but not only were we forces. but not only were we strong as an army, what we also then gave was all those soldiers. >> a career after they left the army , you know, they were army, you know, they were mechanics , they were engineers, mechanics, they were engineers, they were doctors , they were they were doctors, they were nurses. so i think we need to increase that spend to actually help develop people as they go on, as well .

on, as well. >> and as they leave the forces to actually then strengthen our own nation. >> you know, we're now a nation that don't know how to do anything except create tiktoks and influence people. you know, we need to put money into this so that people can come out with careers with with aims to help create and develop and keep our country . uh, you know, one of country. uh, you know, one of the four leaders in what we can do, we know we're struggling now with steel. so we can't make anything anymore. so what we need to is look at the people need to do is look at the people and support that and our and the support in that and our network, not have network, whether or not we have a war and they have to a threat of war and they have to go war, know, that's part go to war, you know, that's part of the job, isn't it? that and they all recognise that and should recognise but should recognise that. but actually should recognise that. but actua and that learning, you tools and all that learning, you know, something touched know, and something we touched on day national on the other day about national service it's giving service, you know, it's giving them boundaries and those them those boundaries and those tools make our nation, you tools to make our nation, you know, one that the know, certainly one that the rest of the world can still be, you know, looking at us with envy instead of looking at us

and thinking, well, they're giving away everything, and now they're , their defence. >> yeah. i don't think anyone's looking kingdom. looking at the united kingdom. sadly of envy when sadly with any form of envy when it to our forces. it comes to our armed forces. that's pretty especially that's pretty sad. especially the our, uh , the way we treat our, uh, soldiers afterwards. but, miranda, thank you so much. that's miranda richardson . she's that's miranda richardson. she's a great british voice wow. this is gb news. welcome on board. if you're just tuned in, we've got loads still to come. uh, my outside guest is a former towie star. he spoke out about the lack role models for lack of positive role models for gay and muslim teenagers gay asian and muslim teenagers and he is a journalist, a graduate and ex bank manager and the ideas who he is. but first, let's get some weather a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hello there and greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news weather. we've got rain pushing across central areas through the next 24 hours, which could be heavy at times , so

could be heavy at times, so winds starting to ease a little bit. looking at the bigger picture, it's this of low picture, it's this area of low pressure will bring the pressure which will bring the heavy rain to parts of wales, northern england. we move northern england. as we move through does through into monday. but it does clear for the clear into tuesday for the rest of clear skies across of sunday. clear skies across scotland after a windy day and exceptional temperatures record breaking. in fact , close to 20 breaking. in fact, close to 20 celsius here overnight. we can see that rain across parts of wales, northern england, setting into the south of this fairly mild 678 degrees. a touch of frost under the clear skies for scotland , where we will be scotland, where we will be greeted by some sunshine to start the day. but parts of wales into northern england it's going to be a grey, dull day. outbreaks of rain, which will only turn heavy as we move through into the afternoon. some localised is possible , localised flooding is possible, some wet snow over the high ground to cloudy to the south of this mild. highs of 14 celsius. sunny northern ireland and scotland here temperatures near average time of year average for the time of year 6 or 7. monday's rain will eventually clear through tuesday morning but leaves a legacy of cloud across england and wales.

sunny for northern ireland sunny skies for northern ireland and scotland , and the wind and scotland, and the wind picking up across the north—west later on. and here temperatures near average for the time of year still fairly mild under the cloud further south, turning wet and windy in the north as we head into wednesday . head into wednesday. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers . sponsors of up boxt boilers. sponsors of weather on gb news . weather on gb news. >> good afternoon. this is gb news. i'm nana akua. there's still loads more to come on the way in the next hour i have my outside guest but also the great british debate i'm asking is the death penalty ever? okay, but paul duddridge is on the way next with worldview . we'll get next with worldview. we'll get an update on what's going on in the us .

good afternoon. it's time now for world view. and as president biden has a lot to say on his campaign rally, have a listen . campaign rally, have a listen. don't mess . with them in america don't mess. with them in america unless you want to get the benefit. yes, well, that was an interesting clip, but that wasn't the one i was after. but we'll show you another one in a bit. let's have a chat with bit. but let's have a chat with the of the politics people the host of the politics people podcast, the host of the politics people podcout what's going on the find out what's going on in the states. paul duddridge, states. hello paul duddridge,

nice you. right. so talk nice to see you. right. so talk to president trump. he's to me, president trump. he's planning the, planning to appeal after the, uh, him . to pay 83.3 uh, ordered him. to pay 83.3 million, $83.3 million to the 83 point when they only asked for 24 million. >> that's all she was demanding was 24 million. >> but he went, was 24 million. >> but he went , now it's was 24 million. >> but he went, now it's trump. let's make it 83.3. >> so yeah , the witch hunt is in >> so yeah, the witch hunt is in full swing and we're starting to see some huge developments like, uh , amazing set. uh, amazing set. >> it's like 80. >> it's like 80. >> now. the thing is yes, he's going to appeal, but the fact is he still will have to put some money into court whilst the appeals are being heard. >> he's going to have to leverage properties, etc. >> this is definitely an exercise tie his even exercise to tie his hands even further this campaign 5965011. >> season. >> so he'll probably never end up paying a penny , but he will up paying a penny, but he will have to put money aside or into court whilst his appeals are being heard. >> what's interesting is, uh, georgia this week the prosecutor

and the attorney general in georgia are found to have possibly been in a personal relationship . relationship. >> and there's going to be a heanng >> and there's going to be a hearing about this . hearing about this. >> so this is going to take so long in georgia, this georgia is the only place that can actually prosecute him. >> uh, because it's not a federal case. um, looks like federal case. um, it looks like that georgia case now , if he that georgia case now, if he wins the presidency , you you wins the presidency, you you actually can't prosecute a sitting president . so if he can sitting president. so if he can kick that into the long grass because because of the shenanigans between the alleged shenanigans between the alleged shenanigans between the alleged shenanigans between . the uh, shenanigans between. the uh, attorney general and the special prosecutor there, we might never see that coming to fruition . see that coming to fruition. >> mhm. yeah. because i thought the limit was only 10 million, actually. and they were asking for a lower amounts. actually. and they were asking for a lower amounts . that was for a lower amounts. that was the limit wasn't it. so i don't get why it suddenly went to 83 million. they're basically trying to bankrupt him aren't they. sounds they. that's what it sounds like. he probably like. would that be he probably the public to pay it though wouldn't he. probably >> oh yeah. i would start a

crowdfunder for that on day one. >> 100. yes. it's about tying up his. it's about tying up any of his. it's about tying up any of his assets and is making it unable for him to leverage any of his property empire to pay for any of his, uh, campaign funding. but yes, the public would support him. his supporters are rabid like myself, and so there's no way that would come to fruition. it's about about cornering him, tying his hands. it's not only that. used limited at that. it used to be limited at $10 it's that until $10 million. it's that until 2019, 2020, there was a statute of limitations . they changed the of limitations. they changed the law in new york for e jean carroll to even be able to bring the first case and remember this 83 million, this 83 million is not about the case itself . it's not about the case itself. it's not about the case itself. it's not about the allegations of assault, but it is about the fact that he then subsequently called her liar and still said called her a liar and still said he'd never met her. that's what this 83 million is about. >> it's absurd. it's absurd. and what one? this is what about this one? this is interesting. cnn and msn , nbc interesting. cnn and msn, nbc mute his mic during the new hampshire victory speech. this is absurd, right?

>> right. so you just showed a clip inadvertently of biden. so biden just talks absolute nonsense all day. okay trump. trump in his in his, uh , new trump in his in his, uh, new hampshire victory speech said this is the third time we've won new hampshire or whatever. they then cut away , muted him. they then cut away, muted him. they said, oh no, he's lying . he said, oh no, he's lying. he never won in the general election. that's so they feel election. so that's so they feel they feel that they can the mainstream commentators, the mainstream commentators, the mainstream media in this country feel it's appropriate to be able to cut away from a victory speech in new hampshire. if nikki haley had won, they would. but they cut away with such contempt for the public, not just for donald trump, that they decide what you can hear when you can hear yeah, cnn and you can hear it. yeah, cnn and msnbc both cut away and just started editorialising his speech. it's not even entitled to make a victory. quite extraordinary . extraordinary. >> it's interesting because as you talk about your mike's clipping up and down as well, the ghost of trump. and then

what about nikki haley as well? why on earth is she hanging on? we're of so we're running out of time. so you got about 30s. why is she hanging on? >> because she's being funded by the democrats. basically, she she is the democrats best option at taking trump down. a lot of her funding is coming from major democratic supporters. there's a claim she made. she she got 46% of the vote in new hampshire. she only got 19. if you only count republicans. the rest of her votes came from democrat voters switched sides voters who switched sides because you're allowed to in those caucuses and primaries at the . so that's the reason the moment. so that's the reason she she is basically the stealth hillary clinton for the, um, the new hillary clinton for the democrat party. that's how they view her. >> what a simple duddridge. always a pleasure. good to speak to you. that's paul duddridge, this is gb news more to come in the next hour. it's 5:00. if you've just tuned in. welcome.

i'm nana akua. this is a gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua for the next hour , me and my panel will next hour, me and my panel will be taking on some of the big topics hitting the headlines right coming today's right now. coming up, today's outside guest, he's a former towie star known for his fiery personality and family tragedy . personality and family tragedy. he's spoken out about the lack of positive role models for gay asian and muslim teenagers and is a journalist graduate, next bank manager and has had a career as a model. any ideas? can you guess ? gb views at gb can you guess? gb views at gb news. com then the great british debate this hour i'm asking is the death penalty ever? okay, but first let's get your latest news headlines . news headlines. >> thanks, nana. good afternoon. it's 5:00. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. a murder probe has been launched after two teenage boys died following a stabbing attack in bristol. the 15 and 16 year olds were attacked in the south of the

city centre yesterday morning . city centre yesterday morning. avon and somerset police say a group of people fled the scene by car . both boys group of people fled the scene by car. both boys died in hospital in the early hours of this morning. hospital in the early hours of this morning . a 44 year old man this morning. a 44 year old man and a 15 year old boy have been arrested and remain in custody. bristol commander superintendent mark runacres says they investigated has already begun . an >> a murder inquiry has been launched by the major crime investigation team and two people have already been arrested and are currently in police custody . police custody. >> i'd like to reassure people we will leave no stone unturned in our efforts to catch those responsible for this reprehensible attack and provide answers to the victims families . answers to the victims families. we're in the early stages of our enquiry. we've already identified a number of witnesses who we will be taking statements from . there is anyone who has from. there is anyone who has information on who hasn't yet spoken to us. we'd urge them to contact us or crime stoppers anonymously. police are investigating the cause of a

huge fire in liverpool city centre. >> it's after a major incident was declared yesterday amid fears a four storey building on fox street could collapse. it was downgraded after 12 engines helped to tackle the blaze, which had been mostly extinguished by 5:00 yesterday. that's according to merseyside fire and rescue service . fire and rescue service. merseyside police confirmed on today that there were no casualties reported in the incident . defence secretary incident. defence secretary grant shapps says the uk remains undaunted by yesterday's illegal attack on hms diamond. ministry of defence confirmed the warship successfully repelled a houthi drone in the red sea. the vessel used her counter defence system to destroy the drone, avoiding any injuries or damage. this is the third attempted attack on the third attempted attack on the naval vessel. in other news, the naval vessel. in other news, the queen has left the london clinic after spending the afternoon with the king. it's the third day his majesty has spent recovering hospital spent recovering in hospital following for an following a procedure for an enlarged prostate. king charles is said to be doing well after the princess of

the treatment. the princess of wales is also at the same hospital following abdominal surgery. charles rea, former royal correspondent for the sun, told gb news the support the royal family are showing each other is comforting. only we don't see royals turning up at a hospital when one of them is in hospital. >> apart from occasionally the queen visiting prince philip in one of his longest stays in hospital. but it's nice to see that they are behaving as they always are, like normal people there, and i think this is showing , um, the way the royal showing, um, the way the royal family is now. and isn't it great to see a united royal family instead of the bickering that's been going on behind the scenes involving prince . andrew scenes involving prince. andrew >> now, kemi badenoch has told gb news, she asked the chairman of the post office to resign after she realised there were problems with the board. henry staunton stepped down in the wake it scandal. wake of the horizon. it scandal. the business secretary said the decision was by mutual consent after she explained to him why

we needed a new leadership. >> they've been having difficulties on the board and when i looked at it, i decided that given everything that's happened, the renewed happened, given the renewed interest interest in interest or the new interest in some into the horizon some cases into the horizon scandal, we just needed someone different . different. >> two people have been arrested after protesters threw soup at the mona lisa in the louvre in paris . two women wearing shirts paris. two women wearing shirts with the slogan food response crossed the security boundary and began shouting our farming system is sick! the incident came after days of protests by french farmers over low profits and red tape . the leonardo da and red tape. the leonardo da vinci painting , widely vinci painting, widely considered a masterpiece , is set considered a masterpiece, is set behind three inches of protective glass and was unharmed . and two officers unharmed. and two officers rescued camels and zebras and a miniature horse from a circus trailer blaze in the us state of indiana . a caravan of long indiana. a caravan of long trucks was transporting circus animals . when a vehicle caught animals. when a vehicle caught fire in the middle of a highway. police responding to the incident freed the animals and

helped to keep them calm. as emergency services fought, the flames throughout the night. grant county sheriff's office says there was no harm . to our says there was no harm. to our furry friends and applauded the officers for their compassion. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on your digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. it's by saying play gb news. now it's back to . nana. back to. nana. >> thank you . welcome on board. >> thank you. welcome on board. this is gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua and for the next hour , me akua and for the next hour, me and my panel will be taking on some of the big topics hitting the headlines right now. this show about opinion. it's show is all about opinion. it's mine, it's and course mine, it's theirs, and of course it's be debating, it's yours. we'll be debating, discussing we will discussing and at times we will disagree, one will be disagree, but no one will be cancelled . so joining today cancelled. so joining me today is broadcaster and journalist danny kelly. i also broadcaster and author christine hamilton . and author christine hamilton. still to come, each sunday at five, i'm joined by a celebrity,

a former mp or someone who's had an extremely interesting career to take a look life after to take a look at. life after the job. we talk highs, lows and lessons what comes lessons learned and what comes next outside. today i'm next on the outside. today i'm joined by our former towie star, who revealed a secret family tragedy . he spoke out about the tragedy. he spoke out about the lack of positive role models for gay, asian muslim teenagers gay, asian and muslim teenagers and journalist, gay, asian and muslim teenagers and journalist , graduate and he's a journalist, graduate and he's a journalist, graduate and ex—bank manager. any ideas? vaiews@gbnews.uk time then for the great british debate. this hour i'm asking is the death penalty ever okay, it's a 32 year old valdo calocane fatally stabbed nottingham. nottingham students barnaby webber and grace kumar and school caterer ian coates last june . the family ian coates last june. the family say justice has not been served as ever. you can email gb views at gb news. com or tweet me at. gb news. so it's just gone seven minutes after 5:00. and of course it's time for this week's outside, where we take a look at

life after the job. i speak to someone who's very interesting, who's had a very interesting career. we talk highs , lows and career. we talk highs, lows and lessons and comes lessons learnt. and what comes next the outside. and today next on the outside. and today my guest uh, had to jump my guest has, uh, had to jump through hurdles to get to where he is today . through hurdles to get to where he is today. he's a former towie star who was disowned by his family after coming out as gay. he's now, though , a major name he's now, though, a major name in the show biz and a role model for people from the lgbt, q plus, muslim and pakistani community. i'm joined now by ex—towie starjunaid community. i'm joined now by ex—towie star junaid ahmed community. i'm joined now by ex—towie starjunaid ahmed . ex—towie star junaid ahmed. junaid, thank you very much. if i said your name correctly, you have not. >> not many get it right, >> not many people get it right, but you did. >> thank what bright teeth >> thank you. what bright teeth you have, i know. >> i they were real like >> i wish they were real like half face. >> i wish they were real like hal nothinge. >> i wish they were real like hal nothing is real but i'm here >> nothing is real but i'm here for it. >> i love it. no. that's great. >> i love it. no. that's great. >> no, that's a of >> no, that's quite a lot of surgery >> no, that's quite a lot of surghave what have you had >> have you. what have you had done? >> nose, chin, hair >> nose, chin, teeth, hair transplant, laser eye surgery. >> nose, chin, teeth, hair traryeah.t, laser eye surgery. >> nose, chin, teeth, hair traryeah.t, lase|all.3 surgery. >> yeah. had it all. >> yeah. had it all. >> really love it though. >> really love it though. >> so confident. >> well. so confident. >> well. so confident. >> you. for good you. >> good for you. for good you. let's talk to me a bit. a bit

about background then. let's talk to me a bit. a bit about a background then. let's talk to me a bit. a bit about a lotckground then. let's talk to me a bit. a bit about a lot ofjround then. let's talk to me a bit. a bit about a lot of people hen. let's talk to me a bit. a bit about a lot of people will because a lot of people will know you from yes. know you from towie. yes. >> still towie, going >> still on towie, going back to film two weeks very film in two weeks time. very very excited . yeah, i mean very excited. and yeah, i mean pnor very excited. and yeah, i mean prior towie was very prior to towie was a very different growing up different life like growing up obviously i'm not obviously originally i'm not even essex i'm even from essex, i'm from a place called peterborough , i place called peterborough, i know yes, not the best of know it, yes, not the best of places, not really. i obviously ventured out and obviously moved to essex when i was 18. but you know what? growing kind know what? growing up was kind of like very of normal for me. like very normal. come from a pakistani normal. i come from a pakistani muslim background. i'm practising muslim myself. so yeah, it's just a very normal background obviously went background and obviously went through school and stuff, obviously realised that am obviously realised that i am a bit different in a very, um , bit different in a very, um, predominantly asian area and kind of just kept that quiet and just kind of got through school and whatnot, as you do when you're confused. you're young, you're confused. you what's you're young, you're confused. you on. what's you're young, you're confused. you on. and what's you're young, you're confused. you on. and then what's you're young, you're confused. you on. and then yeah,at's going on. and then yeah, obviously , sadly, my obviously, sadly, my relationship my family relationship with my family broke come as broke down when i come out as 18, moved essex. 18, moved to essex. >> did say then? you >> what did they say then? you said come out to said how did you come out to them and tell them? i mean, i do for personally because to be for me personally because to be someone just someone who's gay is gay just doesn't anything. so

doesn't really mean anything. so they're who they're just normal people who may a different sexual may have a different sexual preference, but then so what? that's my business. so that's none of my business. so if somebody they're if somebody tells me they're gay, i'm like, well, why have you me i'm not really you told me i'm not really interested. care. interested. i don't really care. yeah, from your yeah, but the reaction from your parents what was parents wasn't that. what was their obviously me, >> yeah, obviously for me, unfortunately, wasn't the unfortunately, it wasn't the best reaction and it was something couldn't something my family couldn't accept. i'm not accept. but saying that i'm not the only person that has happened no, sharing happened to no, no, no sharing my like, much as it's my story. like, as much as it's hard someone comes out, hard whenever someone comes out, the very the reaction can be very positive very negative. the reaction can be very posbut�* very negative. the reaction can be very pos but whatery negative. the reaction can be very pos but whatery ryoutive. the reaction can be very posbut whatery ryou do? did you >> but what did you do? did you actually them down and tell actually sit them down and tell them, yeah, we just had an honest open conversation honest and open conversation and that that, that was that, was that, um, obviously of obviously wasn't the best of terms. very young at the time. >> i was very young at the time. 18 anything, 18 didn't really have anything, to had nothing. um, to be honest. i had nothing. um, but i always sit there and say it was a lesson that i learnt, and it made me who the person i am today. and fast forward nearly ten years, my family relationship is very different. so they to you now. now so they talk to you now. we now speak. have a great relationship. >> when did they start talking to started to you again? we started speaking recently about about four ago. speaking recently about about fou so ago. speaking recently about about fou so when ago. speaking recently about about fou so when they saw you on towie >> so when they saw you on towie and things. >> yeah. when, you finally

>> yeah. when, when you finally made them i did made it without them i did it without we talk to without you. oh we can talk to him because he's famous and him now because he's famous and well we, you know, he well actually we, you know, he might to help us out in might be able to help us out in the the of it. the future. the cheek of it. >> i mean, do know very >> i mean, do you know what very different. are very different. my family are very private i respect private people and i respect them for it. i mean, they've made themselves made their lives for themselves and they live a very lovely life. enjoy going life. and i enjoy going back home and it's nice be home now. and it's nice to be cooked so myself, cooked and look after so myself, how brothers and sisters how many brothers and sisters have got? i've got two have you got? so i've got two younger little younger brothers and a little sister normal sister and just a very normal family. not able to family. and were you not able to talk to them either when you were sort of out from the were sort of cast out from the family a way, or did they. family in a way, or did they. they're quite they're quite younger we younger than me. so, yeah, we didn't didn't really didn't really they didn't really understand going on understand what was going on nehhen understand what was going on neither. what is. neither. so it is what it is. you know mean? i i think you know what i mean? i i think for years i've always been like, it's so sad what's happened to me. but now i use it as a positive help inspire other positive to help inspire other people. and i'm just so here for it. i've been through it. listen, i've been through absolutely everything, but i'm smiling it. you smiling at the end of it. you know what mean? smiling at the end of it. you knoyou hat mean? smiling at the end of it. you knoyou think �*nean? smiling at the end of it. you knoyou think people have got >> you think people have got past know, the past that though? you know, the fact need to come fact that people need to come out and the fact that was ten years so i think, i think

years ago. so i think, i think things changed right? things have changed now. right? i in your view. i like changed in your view. >> i've had since >> i mean, i've had since obviously appearing on and obviously appearing on tv and being the last three being on tv for the last three years, had thousands years, i've had thousands of messages from people that have been such an been like, you are such an inspiration. there's no one out there like you, that's there like you, and that's a massive do massive thing of what i do today. i do feel it as a massive diversity issue in world diversity issue in the world of tv. of tv. there's a lack of representation of so many people and break them. and i'm here to break them. barriers stereotypes. and i'm here to break them. bar how stereotypes. and i'm here to break them. barhow did stereotypes. and i'm here to break them. barhow did the reotypes. and i'm here to break them. barhow did the towiees. and i'm here to break them. barhow did the towie thing come >> how did the towie thing come along? you were bank manager? >> 5 manager? >> a pretty face. >> yes, not just a pretty face. nana beautiful and nana no beautiful face and beautiful well. beautiful brains as well. >> rare combo. >> such a rare combo. >> such a rare combo. >> yeah, so i think for me i was quite lucky . i i to quite lucky. i mean, i went to university, i studied journalism quite lucky. i mean, i went to univgraduated. died journalism quite lucky. i mean, i went to univgraduated. died jouthat'sn and graduated. anyone that's been , which you been a journalist, which you probably know as getting probably know as well, getting work journalism was work in journalism back then was very, hard . so obviously very, very hard. so obviously i needed left university, needed a job. i left university, i living in essex, had i was living in essex, had nothing , needed the job. nothing, needed the job. so i started working in a and it started working in a bank and it took me four years and i worked my a branch manager. my way up to a branch manager. very i worked very good. so i really worked hard that and i absolutely hard for that and i absolutely love it. it was a pinnacle moment for me in my career in banking. i always knew it was somewhere, i wanted to

somewhere, something i wanted to do. people, do. i wanted to prove to people, you beautiful like me, you can be beautiful like me, and can be bank and you can also be a bank manager. so that is what i want you to do. and that's what did. >> and you did that. how did >> and you did that. but how did towie along? towie come along? >> so working the bank, i was >> so working in the bank, i was then contacted on social media and towie casting. and it was from towie casting. never just coming bank never just coming into the bank and at the bank. well and seeing you at the bank. well no, social media. no, it's on social media. they saw media. i was saw me on social media. i was friends the cast members. >> and then did you want to do that? so you started making friends with people there? >> i'll honest, from >> it was. i'll be honest, from a it . a very calculated it. >> this is all a plan. he's got a chessboard dominic cummings. i'm much like, manifest >> i'm very much like, manifest what want in your life and what you want in your life and you will it. i manifested you will get it. i manifested zahawi the age of i've zahawi from the age of 18. i've gotten was 27, so i've gotten it when i was 27, so i've been on it for two years now and gotten it when i was 27, so i've blove)n it for two years now and gotten it when i was 27, so i've blove it.it for two years now and gotten it when i was 27, so i've blove it. changed years now and gotten it when i was 27, so i've blove it. changed my rs now and gotten it when i was 27, so i've blove it. changed my whole and life. >> now, terry, i don't watch it anymore . anymore. >> why not watching it? >> why are you not watching it? >> why are you not watching it? >> actually >> you know, because i actually think idea that they think it's my idea that they stole i was. i am stole because i was. i am a genuine essex girl because i was born in newcastle . i'm a born in newcastle. i'm a geordie, but i'm geordie cross essex ghanaian and i, me essex cross ghanaian and i, me and my friend and i penny. we

used out drinking all the used to go out drinking all the time essex. we wrote time in essex. yeah and we wrote down can have our programme down we can have our programme about birthdays. about essex birthdays. so we wrote thing down and then a wrote this thing down and then a couple years later there it couple of years later there it arrived couple of years later there it arri lovely. >> lovely. >> lovely. >> that's why believe itv. >> so that's why i believe itv. no, i think i wrote it and somebody heard me. a bit somebody heard me. it's a bit like time i was on the tube like one time i was on the tube and i was chewing gum and it used to clear my nose and i said, only they chewing said, if only they had chewing gum like, so gum with the thing in like, so they can clear your sinuses and then came then airways came along. >> people are stealing >> see, people are stealing your ideas. on? ideas. nana what's going on? well, this i do, well, trademark this stuff i do, i you you're zahawi how. >> now. >> yes. um, for you. and i wanted to ask you because wanted to ask you this because it's political, but then it's more political, but then your and brains. so your beauty and brains. so you'll be able to answer. what your beauty and brains. so yoyour)e able to answer. what your beauty and brains. so yoyour thoughts answer. what your beauty and brains. so yoyour thoughts answe whole: is your thoughts on the whole hamas—israel have is your thoughts on the whole h.thoughtrael have is your thoughts on the whole h.thought on. have is your thoughts on the whole h.thought on that? have a thought on that? >> know what i tend to >> do you know what i tend to kind of. i have opinion and i've realised opinion realised being so opinion weighted sometimes doesn't always favour . so always work in your favour. so i think now i'm very diplomatic. sukh are i have opinions sukh are you? i have opinions and sometimes not. and sometimes they're not. they're hearing , i they're not worth hearing, i think. quite obviously think. listen, quite obviously it's a very sad situation . on it's a very sad situation. on what's going on on both parts at and for me, obviously it's just

like i've you see it all and you just see the sadness in what's happening. and i just feel so sad whole situation. sad with the whole situation. and day it can be and hopefully one day it can be rectified they rectified and hopefully they can find yes find peace. yes >> and hopefully you'll live journalistic response there from me, and me, very diplomatic. beauty and brains are wise to dodge brains are very wise to dodge that. yeah. so what are you up to next. and a lot of people ask with regard to how, with regard to towie how, um, realistic is it? >> everything is real. >> everything is real. >> no, it's these are set up situations. >> so the best way i describe it is like we've got a job, you know, your location of where you're working and where go you're working and where you go to work. like us, they tell us the before we're the day before where we're filming and the location and that walk in. we that is that we walk in. we obviously get miked and obviously get miked up and whatnot, into the whatnot, and we go into the scene. we don't know what's going on, that truth going on, and that is the truth of and say so of it. i sit there and say so many times, the things that have come my mouth, i wish come out of my mouth, i wish someone them someone told me to say them things, unfortunately things, but unfortunately my mouth with mouth just goes away with itself. so. >> so you just make up stuff as your chatting. your as you're chatting. >> it's not really make >> i mean it's not really make up.

>> the what's your up. the what's your latest >> what's the what's your latest line what. you line then or what. how did you leave you're leave it by. because you're going in a few weeks to film. >> yes. and i think i'm going back and wiser. back older, mature and wiser. i'm not here for the drama anymore. entertained the anymore. i've entertained the nafion anymore. i've entertained the nation two years, giving nation for two years, giving them dramatics them all the dramatics i possibly need possibly can. i think i need a bit a break from the bit of a break from the dramatics now. i'm going from a boss b no, actually i was a bad 13, boss b no, actually i was a bad b, a boss b and b, but i'm going to a boss b and where you yourself in say where do you see yourself in say five time? i um, great five years time? i um, great question. i see myself obviously doing more reality shows. i love reality tv. yeah, yeah love it. i want to do the jungle one i do want to do the jungle one day then i won't be able to cope. >> oh no. do you don't need to clean do you. just put. clean them do you. just put. well i mean i brush them three times a day. >> i'd to think so, >> yeah i'd like to think so, but, yeah, i mean, very but, um. yeah, i mean, i'm very i'm driven and i'm very career driven and i'd love of go into love to kind of go into presenting going forward, do some reality just some more reality stuff and just be household name that i am. be the household name that i am. >> could could have a >> you could you could have a quiz or something quiz show or something on i know, who knows, might be know, who knows, i might be doing tipping soon. doing tipping point soon. >> to be so >> yeah, i used to be so addicted yeah, just addicted to that. yeah, i just love i'm really grateful and love it. i'm really grateful and i'll i from

i'll be honest, i come from absolutely nothing and i've worked so hard to where am worked so hard to where i am today platform worked so hard to where i am tod me. platform worked so hard to where i am tod me. i've platform worked so hard to where i am tod me. i've run platform worked so hard to where i am tod me. i've run two platform worked so hard to where i am tod me. i've run two businesses. for me. i've run two businesses. they've got my skincare line, got media management got my social media management skills. have. yeah. so skills. yes you have. yeah. so i'm and this is my i'm not. and this is my whole point don't point to people is you don't just be reality star. just have to be a reality star. i'm a reality star, but i'm also a business person and i work my i so hard. i work so hard. >> what was in your view? i work so hard. >> would was in your view? i work so hard. >> would was say our view? i work so hard. >> would was say would w? i work so hard. >> would was say would be your what would you say would be your highest and obviously highest moment? and obviously there's still further go, there's still further to go, but so last last year so far, i'd say last last year tory won best reality show at the reality tv awards. >> and i think for me there was a huge moment because i went on stage to take the award and give a for someone that's a speech for someone that's quite only the show quite that's only done the show for years. i think that was for two years. i think that was a massive point for me because i've loved the show, and a massive point for me because i've show loved the show, and a massive point for me because i've show is loved the show, and a massive point for me because i've show is such! the show, and a massive point for me because i've show is such ahe show, and a massive point for me because i've show is such a huge )w, and a massive point for me because i've show is such a huge hit and a massive point for me because i've show is such a huge hit on! the show is such a huge hit on itv and you don't really realise that when you're in much. that when you're in it so much. but the public but when you see the public reaction the reaction to it and what the pubuc reaction to it and what the public say, you realise, oh my gosh, huge. the gosh, this is huge. and the people people enjoy it. >> yeah, and a pearl of wisdom, word advice give to word of advice that you give to somebody watching and somebody who's watching and looking at you thinking, i want

to do. to be just like you do. >> knock back stop >> don't let the knock back stop you because i've been knocked back 100 occasions i back on 100 occasions and i finally yes. so finally got that. yes. so whatever throws you, whatever life throws at you, work hard, be persistent, and you'll in work hard, be persistent, and you end. in the end. >> you only fail if you give up. >> you only fail if you give up. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> thank you so much. lovely to talk to and you. thank you talk to you. and you. thank you very is junaid ahmed. very much. that is junaid ahmed. he a towie star. he'll be on he is a towie star. he'll be on towie a couple towie on our screens in a couple of if you're just towie on our screens in a couple of in. if you're just towie on our screens in a couple of in. welcome! j're just towie on our screens in a couple of in. welcome! thisust towie on our screens in a couple of in. welcome! this is: towie on our screens in a couple of in. welcome! this is gb tuned in. welcome! this is gb news on tv, online and on digital fast digital radio. it's fast approaching 18 minutes after 5:00. akua. tuned 5:00. i'm nana akua. stay tuned for sunday. you'll 5:00. i'm nana akua. stay tuned for the sunday. you'll 5:00. i'm nana akua. stay tuned for the stories sunday. you'll 5:00. i'm nana akua. stay tuned for the stories sunday. y

with me, michael portillo, gb news. >> britain's news channel . >> britain's news channel. >> britain's news channel. >> good afternoon . if you just >> good afternoon. if you just joined us, welcome on board. you've got us. so we've only got about 40 minutes left of the show. but that's fine because we've got loads still to come. and a lot of you may be and i think a lot of you may be up this question. i'm nana up for this question. i'm nana akua. we're live on tv, online and digital radio. it's time and on digital radio. it's time now for the great british debate. asking, is debate. this hour i'm asking, is the penalty ever? okay, debate. this hour i'm asking, is the a penalty ever? okay, debate. this hour i'm asking, is the a 32 penalty ever? okay, debate. this hour i'm asking, is the a 32 year|alty ever? okay, debate. this hour i'm asking, is the a 32 year old. ever? okay, debate. this hour i'm asking, is the a 32 year old. it's r? okay, debate. this hour i'm asking, is the a 32 year old. it's a okay, debate. this hour i'm asking, is the a 32 year old. it's a 32 ay, it's a 32 year old. it's a 32 year old. waldo calocane fatally stabbed nottingham students barnaby webber and grace kumar. and also he killed a school caretaker, ian coates, last june. now, their families say that justice was not served . but that justice was not served. but would a custodial sentence even,

uh, be good enough for him? because that's what he's got. i mean , he was basically sentenced mean, he was basically sentenced to a manslaughter and to be held in a secure unit like a hospital because he's a paranoid schizophrenic . so he suffers schizophrenic. so he suffers with mental illness . so that's with mental illness. so that's why asking. they have why i'm asking. they have complained that the sentence is too lenient . and i'm asking, in too lenient. and i'm asking, in your the death penalty your view, is the death penalty ever are there any cases ever okay? are there any cases that you would consider it okay. so joining me now to discuss norman baker, former home office minister femi nylander, the political commentator matt whitlock historian, stephen whitlock, historian, and stephen barrett, writer and barrister, all right. well, i'm going to start with you, stephen, to start with you, stephen, just to give us some sort of context with regard to the death penalty and also to give a bit more and also to give us a bit more around a of people around because a lot of people are calling for harsher punishment for calocane. but what are your thoughts in terms of the death penalty? give us some background . some background. >> the important thing is >> and so the important thing is that lawyers don't come on as lawyers and tell everybody their political opinions and then tell them that they can't have an opposite one. >> on the penalty, all

>> so on the death penalty, all iever >> so on the death penalty, all i ever really like to say is that is for the public. that it is for the public. >> the public want a death >> if the public want a death penalty, they one. penalty, then they can have one. >> we made international >> we have made international human commitments . human rights law commitments. those be . changed or got rid of. >> again, if the public wants that to happen. >> but assuming that they stay in place even they allow for a death penalty . and maybe if death penalty. and maybe if i just read out article two on the right to life, everyone's right to life shall be protected by law. >> no one shall be deprived of his life intentionally. >> and that word intentionally is really important. >> it means intentionally by the state saving the execution of save. >> so except in the execution of a court following a sentence of a court following his conviction for a crime for which provided, which the penalty is provided, so the european convention on human rights the right to life article itself imagines that you might have a death penalty. >> so the idea of having a death penalty is something that legal systems have. and whether you want or not is your personal want it or not is your personal political position. i mean, i have child nana, so i do

have a child nana, so i do understand these things. i mean, for all my, you know, i sit here in a, in a, you know, relative veneers of civility. i'm relatively well educated, you know, relatively professional. and . hurt my child, and if somebody. hurt my child, i don't know whether i knew those veneers would survive . mm those veneers would survive. mm hmm. i just i those veneers would survive. mm hmm. ijust i don't those veneers would survive. mm hmm. i just i don't think that's good. >> yeah, that's the thing . all >> yeah, that's the thing. all right. thank you very much for that, stephen. it's good to get some background and find out some background and to find out about i didn't know that about that. i didn't know that about that. i didn't know that about human rights about the human rights convention. norman baker and then i afternoon you. then i good afternoon to you. >> me give you four reasons >> let me give you four reasons why wrong have why it's always wrong to have a death penalty . first of all, um, death penalty. first of all, um, if you have a situation where someone being grotesquely someone is being grotesquely murdered, as in this case in nottingham , it's a hideous nottingham, it's a hideous crime. and the state rightly takes a strong view that it's wrong for someone to kill someone it's then someone else. so it's then bizarre for the state to then say, well, the penalty for that is for us kill that person. is for us to kill that person. killing life must be wrong always. we've been very always. secondly we've been very strong internationally in the last years since we abolished last 60 years since we abolished the this the death penalty in this country, to us take

country, enabling to us take a moral position elsewhere and lead other countries into abolishing the death penalty. as well, because other countries use death penalty in political , use death penalty in political, cynical ways. in iran, you could be executed for if you're a woman , for not dressing properly woman, for not dressing properly in tibet, you're executed for having a picture of the dalai lama . the death penalty must lama. the death penalty must always be wrong . thirdly, um, we always be wrong. thirdly, um, we know of cases in this country and elsewhere where people have been executed and they have been subsequently proven to be innocent. and you can think of those convicted of ira terrorism in the 1990s, who then subsequent dna evidence came out to show they were not guilty. had they had the death penalty applied, they would undoubtedly have been executed. and fourthly , the speakers are former home office minister here. that's fine. death penalty is not a deterrent . um, this guy in deterrent. um, this guy in nottingham would not have been deterred had the death penalty existed. and if you take an inverted commas normal murder, the deterrent effect comes from the deterrent effect comes from

the likelihood of being successfully captured and prosecuted , not from the length prosecuted, not from the length of penalty itself . of penalty itself. >> interesting. well, it's interesting that your first one was it's bizarre because that depends on where your standpoint is. not everyone would think that bizarre. and as for that it's bizarre. and as for morality singers, we put a moral position on things as therefore we really make moral we can't really make moral judgements. we can. i don't see why. and then you also mentioned iran and tibet. why. and then you also mentioned iran and tibet . well, i hear iran and tibet. well, i hear you, but but at the end of the day, i appreciate the mistakes can be made. but in the case of, say, someone like the guy in nottingham , we that did nottingham, we know that he did it. my view that would be it. and in my view that would be when applied . and when it would be applied. and i don't how work out don't see how you can work out whether it is or it isn't a deterrent. uh, in states, deterrent. uh, in the states, in places like states, because places like the states, because i think you can actually i don't think you can actually feasibly out . but feasibly work that out. but let's to, um , matt with let's let's go to, um, matt with matt . matt whitlock . matt. matt whitlock. >> okay. well i'd agree with what the previous speaker said, but with some additions. >> first of all, as a christian, i believe life is sacred.

>> that means that all life has i believe life is sacred. >>be|at means that all life has i believe life is sacred. >>be handleds that all life has i believe life is sacred. >>be handled carefully. life has to be handled carefully. >> there's no possibility of writing justice writing a miscarriage of justice if execute somebody, you if you execute somebody, you cannot get them back . cannot get them back. >> as christian, there's no >> as a christian, there's no possible get them back. >> i mean, but let's be honest, if you executed somebody, if they're innocent and if there's a justice, you let's go with, let's go with the let's just go with the fact that somebody we know they've done it. let's know they've done it. so let's say let's a case that it say let's take a case that it would be somebody caught would be somebody who's caught on . they've done it. we on cctv. they've done it. we know they have . for example, in know they have. for example, in the case this guy nottingham, the case of this guy nottingham, he's we're he's not the person we're talking about. but i'm giving an example where, know, example of where, you know, someone's done let's , someone's done it. so let's, let's if you know someone's done it right, i would still say no because as a christian there's no possibility of repentance . no possibility of repentance. >> if you bring in execution , >> if you bring in execution, the state has to have somebody else do the killing for them. >> do you want to do the killing? >> would other people want to do the killing? of us i yes. the killing? most of us i yes. >> okay. yes. job and it was >> okay. yes. my job and it was a law and somebody was meant to

be because they've done be executed because they've done wrong a problem wrong. i wouldn't have a problem if my job to do it. so, if that was my job to do it. so, you know, so you've asked me, i'm and would be i'm answering and that would be because because because it's a law. because because it's a law. because because it's a law. because because it would be acceptable and because that would be my job. i wouldn't have a problem doing it. femi nylander um, hi. >> i think the two main things to address here. >> one is that if we look at the uk, um, um, kind of justice system as it is, it's already hugely in unequal, um, insofar as it , but hugely in unequal, um, insofar as it, but poorer people in jail as it, but poorer people in jail a lot more rich people. it a lot more than rich people. it puts people in jail a lot puts black people in jail a lot more than white people. so when you in execution, more than white people. so when y0lyou in execution, more than white people. so when y0lyou start in execution, more than white people. so when y0lyou start doing n execution, more than white people. so when y0lyou start doing n

me just let me just let me just quickly let me just quickly go on in order for a death penalty to work, it is based on the idea that the state is a good, good, a good judge of who gets to live and to die. and me and who gets to die. and me personally, i would not trust a state that is currently greenlighting the mass murder of children in another place and supporting another state, which is mass murdering children to decide gets to live who decide who gets to live and who die. whereas the state which has just killed ten. with green light. with green light, with green lighted with green, lighted and supported another state as is bomb 10,000 state as it is bomb 10,000 children death in the past children to death in the past few months. so how are we? good having this as who gets to live and who to our leaders and who gets to die. our leaders will respect our morality. >> you talking about are you >> are you talking about are you talking and talking about palestine and you're talking about israel and hamas? >> i'm just giving that as an example. i'm giving that as an example. i'm giving that as an example of where the i mean, example of where the uk, i mean, terrible who terrible judge on who gets to live , gets die. live, who gets to die. >> yeah, but talking about somebody. >> it's genocide. it'sjust somebody. >> it's genocide. it's just been just as it's just been seen as it's just

been, it's been it's in the icj as genocide war. includes as genocide war. war includes two nonetheless, two states. but nonetheless, let's distracted. well, let's not get distracted. well, you're one doing the distracting. >> we're not talking about that. >> we're not talking about that. >> mean, fair enough, but >> no, i mean, fair enough, but it was was a parallel. it was it was it was a parallel. i'm that the uk really i'm saying that the uk really a parallel because i it. parallel because i see it. >> about as i see >> i'm talking about as i see the uk government is not a good harbinger of who gets live harbinger of who gets to live and because and who gets to die, because death death, it's the death is death, whether it's the death is death, whether it's the death you death penalty and you get executed the electric chair, executed by the electric chair, or bomb on you, or whether a bomb drops on you, because supports it. >> when our government decides to kill someone, decides to to kill someone, it decides to kill someone. and our government , our current government is an awful of gets live awful judge of who gets to live and gets to. yeah, what awful judge of who gets to live and kids?ets to. yeah, what kills kids? >> but would be it. would it >> but you would be it. would it be government making be the government that making the this the judgement? remember this would court of law with would be in a court of law with evidence you it's not evidence. um, you know, it's not it's the state going, it's not just the state going, oh, we'll just kill that oh, well, we'll just kill that person. it's like that. you person. it's not like that. you know that. it's a court of law where judicial where you have the judicial branch the three branch is one of the three branches government . right. branches of government. right. listen, me finish talking listen, let me finish talking and talk after. and then you can talk after. that's but it is that's fine. um, but it is a court of law. so i just think the parallels that you're

drawing, they're really drawing, they're not really parallels, are they? they're not, parallels, are they? they're not but they're three. they're >> but they're three. they're three branches. three three branches. there's three branches of government. and one of a judicial branch. branches of government. and one of so a judicial branch. branches of government. and one of so the a judicial branch. branches of government. and one of so the courtsial branch. branches of government. and one of so the courts do branch. branches of government. and one of so the courts do form h. branches of government. and one of so the courts do form in a and so the courts do form in a sense , the part of the sense, the part of the government, but they're not in that court. >> they're sitting the >> they're not sitting in the court listening evidence court listening to the evidence and the and determining what the judgement what judgement should be. that's what i'm talking about i'm saying. you're talking about war. a different issue altogether. >> where does does the >> where does where does the where bills? who where does the bills? who creates where do where creates bills? where do where do the then the bills that the judges then 6my up the bills that the judges then apply up in parliament the bills that the judges then ap|politicians up in parliament the bills that the judges then ap|politicians. up in parliament by politicians. >> but but again, again, the mps are not sitting there in the court of law making the decision. but you're jurors , decision. but you're jurors, you've got 12 jurors, the jurors are judging their decisions and you've you've got 12 jurors, you've got you've got 12 jurors, a that the government has a judge that the government has drawn up. if we talk at the same time, i don't think anyone will hear anything. so stop. hear anything. so i'll stop. and then so as i then you go on. yeah. so as i was you've got jurors was saying, you've got 12 jurors and you've got a judge and and then you've got a judge and that is made there. i'm that decision is made there. i'm asking whether there is ever a for case the death penalty. what are for for are your thoughts for me, for the penalty. the death penalty. >> as say, i don't trust >> as as i say, i don't trust our court system. i don't trust

our court system. i don't trust our politicians. i think this is i think i think and i don't trust them to kill people. to be honest. also, i think honest. and also, i think they've a lot of what they've done a lot of what they've done a lot of what they've point points, they've point to, the points, they've point to, the points, the have been made the points that have been made earlier very strong earlier are very, very strong points. points don't points. the points that we don't need to kill and the need to kill people. and the argument well, if we argument that, oh, well, if we don't people, we're don't kill people, then we're paying don't kill people, then we're paying them in paying for them to be in prisons. loads prisons. we can have loads less people by people in prisons just by funding services, better funding social services, better funding social services, better funding mental health, better having unequal having a more, less unequal society. want less people society. if you want less people in that stuff. in prisons, do all that stuff. you to start killing you don't need to start killing you. want less. >> you m- m that, but it less. >> you that, but it doesn't. >> you say that, but it doesn't. well, you're saying that as though up to it, though that will add up to it, but doesn't necessarily work but it doesn't necessarily work like but me just ask like that. but let me just ask you or no? i'll start you then, yes or no? i'll start with norman is it with you, norman baker. is it ever have a to have ever okay to have a to have a death penalty, yes or no? no no. um, i'm not going to ask you, stephen, because i know you can't a decision. so can't make a decision. so i appreciate i respect you have given us a nice view as , um, uh, given us a nice view as, um, uh, matt whittock is it ever okay? >> no . let life be life. let us >> no. let life be life. let us life sentence be a life sentence. but no, do not degrade

by killing and femi nylander, is it ever okay? >> yes or no ? >> yes or no? >>— >> yes or no? >> no. the state really is not trustworthy in that regard . trustworthy in that regard. >> okay. well, lovely. thank you so much for your thoughts. much appreciate it. norman baker, former minister former home office minister femi nylander, commentator former home office minister femi nyla|whitaker, commentator former home office minister femi nyla|whitaker, historian, entator former home office minister femi nyla|whitaker, historian, and tor matt whitaker, historian, and stephen barrett, a writer and barrister. so what are your thoughts? is it ever okay to have a death penalty? 33 after five? this news tv, five? this is gb news on tv, onune five? this is gb news on tv, online digital radio. i'm online and on digital radio. i'm asking the great british debate this ever okay, this hour. is it ever okay, you'll hear the thoughts of my panel you'll hear the thoughts of my panel. christine panel. danny kelly and christine hamilton. but first, let's get your latest news with sophia . your latest news with sophia. thanks nana. >> it's 533. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom . a murder in the gb newsroom. a murder probe has been launched after two teenage boys died following a stabbing attack in bristol. the 15 and 16 year olds were attacked in the south of the city yesterday morning . avon and city yesterday morning. avon and somerset police say a group of people fled the scene by car. both boys died in hospital in

the early hours of this morning. a 44 year old man and a 15 year old boy have been arrested and remain in custody. bristol commander superintendent mark acas says the investigation has already begun collecting statements . police are statements. police are investigating the cause of a huge fire in liverpool city centre. it's after a major incident was declared yesterday amid fears a four storey building on fox street could collapse. it was downgraded after 12 engines helped to tackle the blaze, which had mostly been extinguished by 5:00 pm. that's according to merseyside fire and rescue services , as merseyside police services, as merseyside police confirmed on today that there were no casualties reported in the incident . defence secretary the incident. defence secretary grant shapps says the uk remains undaunted by yesterday's illegal attack on hms diamond. minister of defence confirmed the warship successfully repelled a houthi drone in the red sea . the vessel drone in the red sea. the vessel used her counter defence system to destroy the drone, avoiding any injury or damage. this is the third attempt to attack on

the third attempt to attack on the naval vessel , and the queen the naval vessel, and the queen has left the london clinic after spending the afternoon with the king. it's the third day his majesty has spent recovering in hospital following a procedure for enlarged prostate . king for an enlarged prostate. king charles to be doing well charles is said to be doing well . after the treatment. the princess of wales is also at the same following same hospital following abdominal surgery , and you can abdominal surgery, and you can get more on all those stories by visiting our website at gb news.com. now it's back to . nana. >> so coming up, would we halt foreign? should we fold up? should we hold foreign aid? i'll get there in the end . as the uk get there in the end. as the uk suspends funding from the united nafions suspends funding from the united nations aid agency for palestinian refugees after 12 of its employees were accused of taking part in the october 7th attacks on israel . what do you attacks on israel. what do you think? but up next, it's time for the great british debate this hour. i'm asking, is the death ever

7:00. this evening. gb news the people's channel in 2024. >> gb news is britain's election channel. come and join me this thursday in scunthorpe live by scanning the qr code or going on gb news comm to get your ticket for the event that we'll be discussing things like why the green agenda is risking jobs in places like scunthorpe .

places like scunthorpe. good afternoon. >> if you're just tuned in, where have you been? it's only 20 minutes left. sorry i'm done real quick. this is gp news. we are the people's channel. we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. it's time now for the british debate this the great british debate this houn the great british debate this hour. and i'm asking, is the death ever ? okay, now death penalty ever? okay, now this is a 32 year old valdo calocane fatally stabbed nottingham. nottingham students barnaby webber and grace kumar and a school caretaker, ian coates, last june. their families say justice was not served . um, he was given served. um, he was given a manslaughter charge and will be held in a secure hospital and i think if he does get better, then he'll end up in prison anyway. but they say justice wasn't served. do you think a custodial prison sentence is enough for these people or what do you think? what would you do? ruthless killers. although let's be fair, he had mental health issues. uh, but that's why i'm asking. is the death penalty ever okay, well, let's see what my panel maker there joining me now, broadcaster and journalist danny and danny kelly and author and broadcaster hamilton, broadcaster christine hamilton, christine hamilton is it ever

okay? >> well, i'm very conflicted about this. i think it's a it's barbaric in a way for the state to take life on the other hand, there are people who, frankly, forfeited their life. and that fellow is one of them. and it's all well to say he's all very well to say he's mentally deficient or however they but is. they phrased it, but he is. other said in his other people have said in his case that the experts said he knew what he was doing. he knew exactly what he was doing . so on exactly what he was doing. so on the one hand and on the other, but bad or one case but bad cases or one case doesn't good laws. and doesn't make good laws. and i agree with you. it's obvious he did it. we saw him do it, etcetera, etcetera. so is a cut and dried, but there have been miscarriages of justice over the years. and, know, timothy years. and, you know, timothy evans, was a derek evans, in 1950, he was a derek bentley . stefan kisko very bentley. stefan kisko very recently . well, you say yes. recently. well, you say yes. yes. but stefan kisko was 1976, a very know very i was exactly what i was going on to say nowadays that all those people were , were not not derek bentley

were, were not not derek bentley , but stefan kisko was dna innocent. they with the dna , innocent. they with the dna, they proved that it couldn't have been him. so now it's much easier to know exactly whether somebody did it or they didn't. and six, and there's the birmingham six, for would have for example. they would have swung to use a colloquial expression. >> not necessarily. >> not necessarily. >> yes, they would, because they were imprisonment were convicted life imprisonment . they would all we'd had the . they would all if we'd had the death , they and death penalty, they would, and they then subsequently they were then subsequently proved innocent. so i, i proved to be innocent. so i, i don't like it. i understand the strong emotions and somebody who's done all that, frankly, doesn't deserve to live. that's my view. but that is different from saying the state should sanction taking of life. i just it's a step too far. i don't think so. at all. i know you don't. >> absolutely don't think so . >> absolutely don't think so. and that's not to be cruel. i just think actually it's crueller to people crueller to keep people like this for longer. there this alive for longer. and there was the case in america. they tried they used tried nitrogen. they used nitrogen for the first time. i don't know whether you heard about that case 22 minutes or 22 minutes. about that case 22 minutes or 22 mirhees. about that case 22 minutes or 22 mirhe was unconscious >> he was unconscious very quickly. you know, he quickly. yeah, but you know, he was writhing around and

everyone's saying, oh, it's terrible, it's terrible. >> want anybody >> listen, i don't want anybody to in any way, shape or to suffer in any way, shape or form, but i have to be honest and that i don't really and say that i don't really care. would be care. you know, it would be better somebody who is better to kill somebody who is on quicker. on death row quicker. >> guillotine is about >> um, the guillotine is about the anyway, so the most effective anyway, so i don't think it really matters. >> not going to bring don't think it really matters. >> the not going to bring don't think it really matters. >> the guillotine? to bring don't think it really matters. >> didn'trillotine? to bring don't think it really matters. >> didn't saytine? to bring don't think it really matters. >> didn't say ine? to bring don't think it really matters. >> didn't say ine? ttl'm ng >> i didn't say i was. i'm just saying if we're talking about methods, guillotine instant. methods, the guillotine instant. yeah, instantaneous. >> you've a >> all right, but you've got a whole towards but. whole prelude towards it. but. okay. i mistook that. okay. sorry. i mistook that. >> i am not wanting the guillotine back. please. honestly, i just want the guillotine. twitter guillotine. calm down. twitter i'm conflicted to does it does is the death penalty. >> don't sit on the fence. you'll break it now. >> does it work with something? >> does it work with something? >> does it work with something? >> does it? work as a >> does it? does it work as a deterrent? argue it deterrent? i would argue it doesn't. lots lots doesn't. there's lots of lots of places . well, america is full places. well, america is full of death row prisoners. >> might be full of >> yeah, but it might be full of if there death penalty , if there was no death penalty, there might be even more nana. >> , people say the >> well, people say that the firearms, people firearms, neither do you people taking firearms. firearms, neither do you people takinwouldrms. body of >> i would say the body of evidence it's not evidence suggests that it's not a there's a deterrent because there's thousands of people on death row, people . row, people. >> give you someone like

>> let me give you someone like qatar . i'm >> let me give you someone like qatar. i'm pretty >> let me give you someone like qatar . i'm pretty sure >> let me give you someone like qatar. i'm pretty sure there's a death do you know qatar. i'm pretty sure there's a death crime do you know qatar. i'm pretty sure there's a death crime rate do you know qatar. i'm pretty sure there's a death crime rate is)o you know qatar. i'm pretty sure there's a death crime rate is so you know qatar. i'm pretty sure there's a death crime rate is so low? now qatar. i'm pretty sure there's a death crime rate is so low? dot how the crime rate is so low? do you know when they chop your hand exactly hand off for thieving? exactly because it seriously. because they take it seriously. when british went there for when the british went there for the world cup, noticed that the world cup, you noticed that none british people ended none of the british people ended up prison. up in prison. >> there's no booze allowed. >> there's no booze allowed. >> but. you could >> yeah, but. but you could have had were had booze if you. if you were going to know. >> a it's a dry >> it's a dry it's a dry tournament. but there were places tournament. but there were pla but you could have got away >> but you could have got away with it some people probably tried it, they tried to do it, but they wouldn't they knew wouldn't because they knew that they'd punished they'd be punished properly. >> why biggest >> well, that's why the biggest issue deterrent. your issue is a deterrent. your biggest deterrent the biggest deterrent is fear of the biggest deterrent is fear of being your being caught. okay. sorry your turn secular turn in western secular democracies, western secular democracies, in western secular democracies, in western secular democracies, i would argue it's not deterrent. >> would suggest is it >> and i would suggest is it only deterrent? >> we are all >> in the west, we are all because we're not. >> yes. but we're >> we're not. yes. but we're talking secular rather talking about secular rather than , uh, governments. than religious, uh, governments. so is a religious so qatar is a religious government i think. so what though, so they're deeply though, so that they're deeply islamic and they have sharia law. you caught law. and if you get caught shoplifting, hand, shoplifting, you lose your hand, but just proved it, that but you've just proved it, that those a deterrent, though. >> yes. whatever you are, those things are deterrent. if you

6my things are deterrent. if you apply correctly , then apply punishment correctly, then people will be deterred from doing crime. there'll be doing the crime. there'll be some who it anyway, but some who will do it anyway, but we're would you we're talking. well, would you take stop shoplifters? >> precisely the question. i was going to ask is not committed by, um, serial killers. >> they committed. >> they committed. >> danny and i have a joint question . we both thought of it. question. we both thought of it. >> i'm together. question. we both thought of it. >> i'm tog> i'm too together. all right. two, three. frightened two, three. i'm too frightened to would you chop off the to ask. would you chop off the hand shoplifter this country? >> what's that got to do with the death penalty? >> what's that got to do with the because enalty? >> what's that got to do with the because you're using as >> because you're using it as supporting that supporting evidence to say that that that that capital punishment that that that capital punish let 1t that that that capital punish let me ask. would stop >> so let me ask. it would stop people shoplifting to answer. yes. >> well, okay, let me be very clear on rack. as i said, it clear on the rack. as i said, it is deterrent. in countries is a deterrent. so in countries where strict, harsh where they have strict, harsh punishments, they work as a deterrent. relate it to punishments, they work as a det

>> so you've been a strong advocate the death penalty. advocate for the death penalty. surely would advocate surely you would be an advocate for people's hands off. for chopping people's hands off. >> no i'm not. >> no i'm not. >> well you can't i'm not. >> well you can't i'm not. >> i am is an advocate of >> what i am is an advocate of if a rule, that if you apply a rule, then that rule applied rule should be applied correctly. country, correctly. and in this country, if something like if someone does something like this obviously it's this guy calocane obviously it's not about him, but something this guy calocane obviously it's not thatt him, but something this guy calocane obviously it's not that where but something this guy calocane obviously it's not that where you something this guy calocane obviously it's not that where you know,ting like that where you know, they've view, the they've done it. in my view, the death would. death penalty would. >> your question. >> let me answer your question. >> let me answer your question. >> no. >> no. >> can i? >> can i? >> asked me at the >> you asked me at the beginning. >> next. >> next. >> am i a fan of the death penalty? >> on. christine. no, you >> go on. christine. no, you answered. said not. answered. you said he's not. >> no, i conflicted, >> no, i said i was conflicted, but both bits but after listening to both bits of evidence, i know i now a of evidence, i know i now have a conclusion to my mind. >> what would you like to say? >> what would you like to say? >> don't the death penalty. >> oh, right. so the two of you. yeah. on. christian um, we're yeah. go on. christian um, we're talking about deterrence. >> can't give figures >> i can't give you the figures because it's something that because it's not something that i've heard i've looked at, but. but i heard people saying people a few days ago saying that, when what was it that, um, the when what was it when do firearms when somebody do with firearms anyway, that fewer people anyway, that far fewer people now. now. sorry. now. far more people now. sorry. carry is really carry firearms is really supporting your case to an act of criminal act because they're not so because they know there's

going to be no death penalty . i going to be no death penalty. i can't it exactly. so can't even say it exactly. so look, but i if listen . look, but i if you listen. >> so if you know there's a death penalty, there's a lot of i think what people i don't think that's what people who probably would who've kind of are perfectly sane, that of who are perfectly sane, that probably it probably wouldn't have done it if know there'd been a if they'd know there'd been a deterrent. think know i deterrent. and i think i know i do. i don't think it's a deterrent. i think so. and deterrent. so i think so. and i think a lot people wouldn't think a lot of people wouldn't consider whereas i think think a lot of people wouldn't consithings whereas i think think a lot of people wouldn't consithings like reas i think think a lot of people wouldn't consithings like ,3as i think think a lot of people wouldn't consithings like , um, think think a lot of people wouldn't consithings like , um, well, hang with things like, um, well, hang on, prison is a pretty on, life in prison is a pretty ghastly prospect. >> life goes to >> if it meant life goes to prison. they don't, but prison. i know they don't, but that's should do. life that's what they should do. life is if you kill someone is if you if you kill someone with a with a weapon like a gun, i think it's a i think it's a minimum of 25 years. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> that's quite deterrent. >> yeah. >> that's q|deterrent. rrent. >> yeah. >> that's q|deterrent. butt. >> yeah. >> that's q|deterrent. but it >> that's a deterrent. but it doesn't people using guns >> that's a deterrent. but it doesn't they)eople using guns >> that's a deterrent. but it doesn't they don'te using guns >> that's a deterrent. but it doesn't they don't think] guns >> that's a deterrent. but it doesn't they don't think they're because they don't think they're going to get caught. because they don't think they're goitthat'siet caught. because they don't think they're goitthat's the aught. because they don't think they're goitthat's the problem >> that's the problem because they they're going they don't think they're going to so absolutely. >> so absolutely. >> so absolutely. >> punishment won't >> so capital punishment won't work either. >> we need to we >> you think well we need to we need improve the rest of our need to improve the rest of our systems well. ijust need to improve the rest of our systems well. i just don't systems as well. i just don't think i think like that. but i do believe that need to start believe that we need to start considering don't think considering that. i don't think a civilised country should commit state commit institutionalised state murder. i believe that that is a

measure at measure of civility at all. at all. think actually, in some all. i think actually, in some cases people argue it's cases people might argue it's more lock someone more barbaric to lock someone up for a long, long time. >> can't christine >> i can't believe christine wants reintroduce wants to reintroduce the guillotine. not want to guillotine. i do not want to reintroduce guillotine . reintroduce the guillotine. >> okay, let's out what >> okay, let's find out what they shows they think. because it shows nothing views. nothing without your views. let's great british let's welcome our great british voices be let's welcome our great british voithe be let's welcome our great british voithe show be let's welcome our great british voithe show and be let's welcome our great british voithe show and tell be let's welcome our great british voithe show and tell us be let's welcome our great british voithe show and tell us what on the show and tell us what they think about the topics we're discussing. i've four we're discussing. i've got four of of of you. julie ford, oh, three of you, ford. i'm going to you, julie ford. i'm going to start death start with you. the death penalty. it ever okay? penalty. is it ever okay? >> um, i think it is. okay. but as already as your panel have already said, you sure that these you need to make sure that these people genuinely committed people have genuinely committed the isn't any the crime. there isn't any possibility probability that possibility of probability that i'm it. i'm the one that said it. >> julie. of them said it. >> julie. none of them said it. they wouldn't have it. >> apologies . >> apologies. >> apologies. >> think looking at the >> but i think looking at the figures as well, practically, we've just over 87,000 we've got just over 87,000 prisoners at prisoners in prison at the moment , 7000 of those are moment, 7000 of those are lifers. but only 71 people have got life sentences with no possibility of parole . those possibility of parole. those would be the people open to the death penalty that would only free up 71 places in prison . is

free up 71 places in prison. is that really a deterrent? well you say that. >> well, you say that, but then there might be fewer people going to prison if they know that there's potential a that there's a potential of a death because i think it death penalty because i think it would quite a few of them. would deter quite a few of them. john of this is the john reid, none of this is the topic i know an awful lot about. >> and for once, i disagree with you. nana i don't think there is ever a case for the death penalty. >> and that because i've >> and i say that because i've sat prison people sat in prison with people convicted , i've spoken convicted of murder, i've spoken to them at length , and these to them at length, and these people do it for a reason, and they do it because either it's their job or they've got a grudge or whatever the reason is . at the end of the day , we . at the end of the day, we shouldn't be disposed of people's lives. >> we should be dealing with them in a better way. >> a long prison sentence is the answer. is there going to be a deterrent in anything we do? no, i don't think so . deterrent in anything we do? no, i don't think so. i deterrent in anything we do? no, i don't think so . i don't think i don't think so. i don't think they are. i think , or we better they are. i think, or we better not do this because we might get locked up. >> so i'm not in favour of the death penalty . i am in favour of death penalty. i am in favour of good prison holding them afterwards . afterwards. >> i think prisons, whilst you

say that a lot of people don't think prisons that bad, david balme in watford. yeah, i've actually do believe. >> but within certain parameters. exactly. so we have take the case of forget the guy in nottingham, but we take the case of the gangsters in liverpool who walked into a pub at christmas and shot it up, or the ones that raced down the street charged into someone's house to try and kill somebody else. that's premeditated murder on a wig , not on a whim because on a wig, not on a whim because they upset somebody else. we have jails full of albanian hitmen who basically are going to get deported back. so if they value life so little that they're prepared to take somebody else's life for them and they're not worried about being imprisoned because, hey , being imprisoned because, hey, that's part of the job, then i'm very sorry . death penalty comes very sorry. death penalty comes with a job, but only where it is approved . in fact, you can't approved. in fact, you can't denyian approved. in fact, you can't deny ian huntley. why should he be allowed ? be allowed? >> and exactly. >> and exactly. >> it's proven he committed it.

so sorry. rid of them . so sorry. get rid of them. >> yeah, i'm with you on that. there you go. so finally, somebody, a man after my own heart. thank you very much, julie. david heart. thank you very much, julie. fabulous david heart. thank you very much, julie. fabulous. david heart. thank you very much, julie. fabulous . all david heart. thank you very much, julie. fabulous . all right. so, baum, fabulous. all right. so, yes. what do you think is the death okay, we'll yes. what do you think is the dea'if okay, we'll yes. what do you think is the dea'if we okay, we'll yes. what do you think is the dea'if we can okay, we'll yes. what do you think is the dea'if we can get okay, we'll yes. what do you think is the dea'if we can get someay, we'll yes. what do you think is the dea'if we can get some of we'll yes. what do you think is the dea'if we can get some of your see if we can get some of your emails up. but it's time for emails up. but it's now time for supplements we're supplements sunday when we're panel and i discuss some of the news stories that caught their eye. start with eye. uh, i'm going to start with you, danny. what have you got? >> trust the man >> okay. do you trust the man with um, conservative with a beard? um, conservative mps told there having mps have been told there having a beard. facial hair is a turn off of the general off ahead of the general election. and the daily mail has done the sunday done a great story. the sunday mail, where you had, uh, hair today and gone tomorrow the today and gone tomorrow or the other whatever, other way round or whatever, whatever it brings whatever it is. and it brings into whether have whatever it is. and it brings into hair whether have whatever it is. and it brings into hair because ter have whatever it is. and it brings into hair because they're have facial hair because they're untrustworthy, as untrustworthy, so they use it as a so a barrier. so it's a psychological thing. and that's what i was always told when i was working car dealerships. was working for car dealerships. never beard because never had a beard because apparently your integrity. >> is it? >> is it? >> yeah . >> yeah. >> yeah. >> you trust man with a beard? >> you trust a man with a beard? christine car ? christine selling you a car? you've got more more hair on his face. on his head. >> uh, i wouldn't i would not, i

would never make a judgement about something. as soon official as facial hair because it's today . gone tomorrow. it's here today. gone tomorrow. no i mean, neil grew a beard dunng no i mean, neil grew a beard during covid. loads of people did because it was just easier. you weren't going out. yeah you weren't. you weren't going out. so bother? why bother to so why bother? why bother to shave? would never make shave? so no, i would never make a decision about some of my great friends have got beards and lots of men. they they're here today and gone tomorrow. the yeah. the beards, not the men. yeah. by the death penalty by the way, the death penalty will ever back in. will never, ever come back in. that's think, christine. >> no, i can that in >> no, i you can drop that in now. not asking that now. but we're not asking that you that. no i thought i'd you that. no i just thought i'd put in. you that. no i just thought i'd put my in. you that. no i just thought i'd put my supplement is utterly, >> my supplement is utterly, utterly of utterly ludicrous. eight out of ten enjoy the television ten dogs enjoy the television just as much as you do. apparently they watching apparently they like watching the television . they like in the television. they like in particular watching programmes about other dogs. it or about other dogs. believe it or not, sports and ice not, winter sports and ice skating were amongst the least favourite because that'll make them cold. i mean, isn't them feel cold. i mean, isn't it? ridiculous, isn't it? it? it's ridiculous, isn't it? and that dogs and the ten shows that the dogs like i'm going to like best are. i'm not going to read out . um, read them all out. um, gogglebox. the great british bake off , etc. i won't go

gogglebox. the great british bake off, etc. i won't go on anymore. there's ten of these utterly, utterly ridiculous . um, utterly, utterly ridiculous. um, well, one bone every minute . well, one bone every minute. heel or no heel, fleabag is the best. fleabag. yes, i know the name. >> um, there we go. >> um, there we go. >> so your dog loves telly . we >> so your dog loves telly. we have a friend who? it's my turn now. okay. >> crikey , we have a friend. >> crikey, we have a friend. >> crikey, we have a friend. >> well, it's still about dogs, but you've got your own. no, no, i'll lose my. well, he he runs a kennels for dogs, etc. etc. frightfully up—market. all frightfully up—market. and all the dogs have own rooms. the dogs have their own rooms. they have and they they they have settees and they all to keep all have televisions to keep them quiet. yeah, right. well listen, today's i've listen, on today's show, i've been asking , does britain need been asking, does britain need to spending on defence? >> and according to our twitter poll, 80% of you say yes and 20% of you say no . poll, 80% of you say yes and 20% of you say no. i'm poll, 80% of you say yes and 20% of you say no . i'm agreeing with of you say no. i'm agreeing with them. i've got to say a huge thank you to my kennel. broadcaster and journalist danny kelly. >> my kennel. i thought you said no. 110. >> no. >> danny kennel, i did actually, you said kennel and kennel. hamilton. thanks so much, christine. pleasure. and as even christine. pleasure. and as ever, to you at ever, a huge thank you to you at home company .

ever, a huge thank you to you at home company. it's home for your company. it's always pleasure. thank you so always a pleasure. thank you so much way next, stay much. uh, on the way next, stay tuned because later on we've got some great shows here on gb news i'll see you on saturday. same time, same place. enjoy . time, same place. enjoy. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers spot of weather up. boxt boilers spot of weather on gb news is . on gb news is. >> hello there. and greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest eb news weather. we've got rain pushing across central areas through the next 24 hours, which could be heavy at times, the winds starting to ease a little bit. looking at the bigger picture, it's this area of low pressure which will bring the heavy rain to parts of wales, northern england. as we move into monday. but it move through into monday. but it does clear into tuesday for the rest sunday. clearer skies rest of sunday. clearer skies across scotland after windy across scotland after a windy day and exceptional temperatures record breaking. in fact, close to 20 celsius here. overni we can see that rain across parts of wales, northern england,

setting into the south of this fairly mild 678 degrees. a touch of frost under the clear skies for scotland, where we will be greeted by some sunshine to start the day. but parts of wales into northern england, it's going to be a grey, dull day. outbreaks of rain, which will only turn heavy as we move through into the afternoon. some localised flooding possible . localised flooding is possible. some wet snow over the high ground . cloudy the south ground. too cloudy to the south of mild . highs ground. too cloudy to the south of mild. highs 14 of this mild. highs of 14 celsius. some in northern ireland and scotland . here ireland and scotland. here temperatures near average for the time of year 6 or 7. monday's rain will eventually be clear through tuesday morning, but leaves a legacy of cloud across england and wales. sunny skies for northern ireland and scotland , and the wind picking scotland, and the wind picking up across the north—west later on.and up across the north—west later on. and here temperatures near average for the time of year still fairly mild under the cloud further south, turning wet and windy in the north as we head into wednesday. that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news .

a murder probe has been launched

after two teenage boys died following a stabbing attack in bristol. the 15 and 16 year olds were attacked in the south of the city yesterday morning . avon the city yesterday morning. avon and somerset police say a group of people fled the scene by car. both boys died in hospital in the early hours of this morning. a 44 year old man and a 15 year old boy have been arrested and remain in custody . bristol remain in custody. bristol commander, superintendent mark runacres says the investigation has already begun collecting statements . statements. >> a murder inquiry has been launched by the major crime investigation team , and two investigation team, and two people have already been arrested and are currently in police custody. i'd like to reassure people we will leave no stone unturned in our efforts to catch those responsible for this reprehensible attack and provide answers to the victims families . answers to the victims families. we're in the early stages of our enquiry that we've already identified a number of witnesses who we will be taking statements from. there is anyone who has information who hasn't yet