people they might just convince people they might just be a way back for the conservative party.7 under his leadership? but conservative party? under his leadership? but all of that comes after the news with polly middlehurst . middlehurst. >> nigel, thank. middlehurst. >> nigel, thank . you and good >> nigel, thank. you and good evening to you. well, the top story from the newsroom tonight is that a former labour mp who, seeking re—election, has been administratively suspended from the labour party pending an investigation anti—semitic investigation over anti—semitic remarks he had allegedly made at a party meeting . the jewish a party meeting. the jewish labour movement has strongly condemned comments, graham jones reportedly made about british israeli jews, saying they were appalling and unacceptable . and appalling and unacceptable. and that comes after sir keir starmer withdrew his party support for another candidate, azhar ali, who was recorded suggesting israel had used the hamas attack of october the 7th as a pretext to invade gaza. sir

keir insists his party has changed under his leadership . changed under his leadership. >> well, those comments were appalling and that is why we took decisive action. it is virtually unprecedented to withdraw support for a candidate in the way that i withdrew support for this candidate yesterday. that's what a changed labour party is all about. and of course , any allegation will of course, any allegation will be fully investigated by the party. but the important thing is the decisive action that's been taken to make it absolutely clear that this is a changed labour party . labour party. >> sir keir starmer, but concerned minister grant shapps says labour have no justification for allegations of anti—semitism in their party. >> i think starmer has been taking the public for fools. he's supported and promoted a candidate who has expressed the most atrocious racism against jewish people and starmer hasn't acted out of some sort of principle. he's acted out of

really political expediency now and just said, okay, well, we're going to drop him, but only once the media pressure became too much. shapps now the government's looking closely at the option of bringing injured children from gaza to the uk for medical treatment. >> lord cameron has revealed there is the possibility of transferring some children to british hospitals, including great ormond street. however the foreign secretary reiterated to the house of lords earlier on today that initial efforts are focussed on providing medical assistance to palestinians in the region itself . employers and the region itself. employers and landlords who allow illegal migrants to work for them or rent their properties will face much tougher penalties from today. much tougher penalties from today . the fines for such today. the fines for such actions have risen to a maximum of £45,000 per year. worker for a first breach. landlords also now face increased penalties of £5,000 per lodger and £10,000 per occupier for a first breach.

ministers believe the crackdown will help reduce the incentives for illegal migrants crossing into the uk , and the incredibly into the uk, and the incredibly sad news today that the veteran bbc broadcaster steve wright, who presented on radio 1 and radio two for more than four decades, has died at the age of 69. the bbc director—general, tim davie, described him as a truly wonderful broadcaster and the ultimate professional. online tributes have also flooded in from fellow djs sara cox, simon mayo, ken bruce and tony blackburn and the impressionist rory bremner said it was an awful shock but saluted steve steve's energy and professionalism from steve wright, who died today at the age of 69. for the very latest stories, do sign up for gb news alerts . scan the qr code on your alerts. scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts . well last night on

slash alerts. well last night on this show, i said i found it extraordinary that azhar ali still had the confidence and support of the labour party. >> i couldn't imagine any other party keeping somebody who'd said said . let's said what he'd said. let's remind what he said. remind ourselves what he said. in october to the lancashire labour party . and this was from labour party. and this was from the daily mail. >> the egyptians are saying that they warned israel ten days earlier. right. two weeks earlier, americans warned them two weeks before due date. a day before there's something. something's happening . right. something's happening. right. netanyahu right. deliberately. he was in political trouble. he's in, you know. right. he's in political trouble. he cashed it. they deliberately. i believe that, and i'll say it, i've said it publicly. they deliberately took the security off. they allowed the massacre . and it was allowed the massacre. and it was allowed the massacre. and it was a massacre of 1200. innocent people. right? they allowed that massacre. and that gives that gives them the green light to do whatever they want . whatever they want. >> well, there you are . i mean,

>> well, there you are. i mean, the idea that the israeli government would allow a massacre of their own people is, is quite beyond the realms. but there we are. was what he there we are. that was what he said initially, the labour party supported daily supported him, but the daily mail went starmer yesterday mail went to starmer yesterday with more from speech. with yet more from that speech. what the what was extraordinary was the lack protest in that labour lack of protest in that labour party meeting to what he said. and to that little and we'll come to that a little bit later on. but today starmer decided, well, in fact, last night. but today starmer said this . this. >> well, those comments were appalling. and that is why we took decisive action. it is virtually unprecedented to withdraw support for a candidate in the way that i withdrew support for this candidate yesterday. that's what a changed labour party is all about. yesterday. that's what a changed labour party is all about . and labour party is all about. and of course, any allegation will be fully investigated by the party. but the important thing is the decisive action that's been taken to make it absolutely clear that this is a changed labour party, this is a changed labour party, this is a changed labour party. >> but that's not what rishi sunak thought when he spoke to

gb news people's forum last night . night. >> labour party hasn't changed. it's not changed. it's a con right ? and that's what you have right? and that's what you have to remember. a vote for anyone who's not me, who's not your conservative candidate is a vote to put him with his values and his party in power. well i have to say, i think to be honest, and i've said this for a long time, that i do believe that starmer's main achievement has been to try to neutralise and drive out the very, very hard left labour party left to make the labour party far less scary. >> and goodness me, it began , of >> and goodness me, it began, of course, with jeremy corbyn, who can't as a candidate. can't stand as a candidate. diane abbott was suspended for saying people , jews and saying irish people, jews and travellers not experience travellers did not experience racism and the list goes on and on. kate osamor and there was another one this afternoon and we'll come to that in a moment. but has the labour party changed? well, you know what? it has changed a bit, but it can't afford to change completely because my view is if they were to suspend get rid of to suspend and get rid of everybody that was deeply

critical israel, i think critical of israel, i think there wouldn't be almost anybody left the modern day labour left in the modern day labour party. love to hear your party. but i'd love to hear your views. farage at gbnews.com. well, i'm joined matthew well, i'm joined by matthew lars, former senior adviser to lars, a former senior adviser to the labour party leader the former labour party leader ed miliband, and max young , ed miliband, and max young, reporter the guido fawkes reporter at the guido fawkes news website who've been very involved with a story today about the labour party. i now think that this by—election in rochdale is one of the most extreme, ordinary and fascinating by elections. it happens at the end of this month and yes, of course we've got two by elections coming this week and there's a fair bit of focus on wellingborough in particular. but i somehow now think rochdale could very big clue to the could be a very big clue to the future. matthew laza for the labour party candidate will still appear on the ballot paper as the labour party candidate . as the labour party candidate. some people have already voted for him on post, which is unfortunate . yes, i'm very unfortunate. yes, i'm very unfortunate, but knowing that the party have withdrawn support, potential labour voters start to look to go elsewhere.

where might they go? >> well, i think they'll split, nigel. >> i mean, i think that i'm afraid it will be a fairly a an election along fairly racial lines in rochdale, which is a town that's had racial conflict before, as has nearby old. >> and there were riots there back in the north. yeah, absolutely. so i mean, i think what will happen is, is that the white working vote white working class vote will splinter simon danczuk, splinter off to simon danczuk, who's labour mp who's who's the former labour mp who's standing reform? left standing for reform? um who left the because of the labour party because of a little scandal? if we little personal scandal? if we just of add some texting just sort of add some texting somebody who shouldn't. yes absolutely. but he was a fierce critic, jeremy critic, of course, of jeremy corbyn. simon very corbyn. so i've known simon very much during the young socialists together. so i mean, i think therefore what will have is therefore what he will have is an to kind of an appeal to a kind of traditional white working class vote, muslim vote vote, and then the muslim vote will between galloway and will split between galloway and the now suspended labour candidate. yeah. >> you look at the >> i mean, if you look at the literature that galloway has been gaza, been putting out, it's gaza, gaza, yeah if look at gaza, gaza. yeah if you look at what danczuk saying today, what danczuk is saying today, it's i will put rochdale ahead of it's a fascinating of gaza. it's a fascinating contest. i wondered, i wondered, max, what your thought on this

was rochdale as a by—election >> well, i think it's going to be fireworks to come. uh, simon's whole pivot towards let's talk about rochdale, not gaza. will i think, go down very well. galloway is racing up when it comes to the bookies, and labour are not the favourites anymore as so that's anymore as of today, so that's interesting to see that. indeed i think, i think, i think that everything could change. um, in the next two weeks and it's all to play for. >> it is. and of course, if galloway was to win, if he was to win, the longer time implications labour are implications for labour are quite serious. >> think actually the >> well, i think actually the i mean, the thing about rochdale is he the bradford is he won the bradford by—election uh, i by—election uh, when i was working 2012. yeah when working for 12, 2012. yeah when i was, know, in the ed i was, uh, you know, in the ed miliband era, um, that was miliband era, um, but that was a constituency which i was constituency which i think was either majority kind either majority muslim or kind of 40 odd percent ish. yeah, something like this something like that. this is less is less less than that. this is less than that. absolutely yeah. and there's a couple of there there's also a couple of there are a of posh bits of are a couple of posh bits of rochdale which are the rochdale which are in the constituency which still constituency which might still vote there's a bit, vote tory. and there's a bit, there's a bit sort of more boho, a more public service

there's a bit sort of more boho, a mcwho jbllc service there's a bit sort of more boho, a mcwho mightarvice there's a bit sort of more boho, a mcwho might think, what workers who might think, what on earth i do? i don't want to earth do i do? i don't want to vote it's not vote for simon because it's not my labour. will they my kind of labour. will they splinter? will they? few of them vote lib dem because the lib dems of course, just have half of the half of used to be of the half of it used to be in a a lib dem seat. so i mean, a in a lib dem seat. so i mean, rochdale of was rochdale of course, was the first election. first ever television election. it in the it was the first election in the 50s where the count it was the first election in the 50s televised.nhere the count it was the first election in the 50s televised. ludovice count it was the first election in the 50s televised. ludovic kennedy was televised. ludovic kennedy was televised. ludovic kennedy was um, and was the candidate. um, and i think it's going to have as much attention did attention this time as it did when the first insight when it was the first insight that at got through there. >> thought a there. >> thought a fair bit >> i thought i knew a fair bit about history, but about political history, but i got say, matthew lawson, got to say, matthew lawson, you've got me on that i'm you've got me on that one. i'm very, very pleased to hear it right for legal right now i have to, for legal reasons. tell all of reasons. now tell you, all of the candidates are standing the candidates that are standing in the upcoming rochdale by—election azhar ali, still on the paper as the labour party without endorsed the paper as the labour party witho coleman. endorsed the paper as the labour party witho coleman. independenti mark coleman. independent simon reform liberal reform uk ian donaldson, liberal democrat paul ellison, conservative. george galloway, democrat paul ellison, conserva party seorge galloway, democrat paul ellison, conserva party sec britain loway, democrat paul ellison, conservapartysecbritain michael workers party of britain michael howarth, william howarth, independent william howarth, independent william howarth, independent. guy otten for the party, who i for the green party, who i understand has also lost the support green party . support of the green party. raven rodent sebby's corner official monster raving loony party and david tully ,

party and david tully, independent. and i have to do that, folks. i'm sorry if it's boring, but for legal reasons i do. now the broader debate and the guido fawkes story that you have broken today. >> well, that , uh, meeting >> yes. well, that, uh, meeting on the october 31st last year has proved to be quite the disaster for keir starmer. has proved to be quite the disaster for keir starmer . we disaster for keir starmer. we obtained the full hour long recording of the meeting and we've obviously got azhar ali, who went further on the statements that were reported by the mail, saying that he said it publicly. he'll say it publicly again he thinks netanyahu again that he thinks netanyahu let the barriers the let the barriers down, let the massacre happen, to then retaliate against gaza. but president, also at the meeting, as we discovered , was graham as we discovered, was graham jones, is former labour mp jones, who is former labour mp for hyndburn , 20 miles north of for hyndburn, 20 miles north of rochdale , north west. um uh, he rochdale, north west. um uh, he was mp there from 2010 to 2019 when he was booted out by the tories. but he's currently the prospective parliamentary candidate for labour yet again this year . so candidate for labour yet again this year. so what he said at this year. so what he said at this meeting is that, um , the um this meeting is that, um, the um

, um , terribly sorry he said , um, terribly sorry he said that these the brits who go to israel to fight with the israeli defence forces should be locked up and that. i'm terribly sorry for pre—watershed you get me sacked and, uh, effing israel has, um. well he said effing israel twice , essentially. so israel twice, essentially. so what we see here is the same sort of sentiment that's been festering in local labour constituency party meetings for quite some time. and you've got to remember, it was four years ago that starmer took the helm on the ticket of get in, let's purge corbynites and we're purge the corbynites and we're now two days out from two by elections, two weeks out from a crucial by—election in rochdale. and we've got a candidate getting deselected for this . getting deselected for this. >> and the lack of objection to what said at meeting in what was said at that meeting in a room full of party a room full of labour party members found members was what i found astonishing, pure assent. that's what found. what i found. >> there's >> absolutely. so there's two things. every things. first of all, every single person was in that single person who was in that room, obviously, it

room, apart from obviously, it might who recorded it, might reveal who recorded it, but suspended but it should be suspended instantly. need to labour instantly. so we need to labour party meetings. you only have to sign in a minute the sign in a minute for the minutes. and, and they minutes. um, and, and they should be suspended straight away don't stand away because if you don't stand up, the truth truth. you up, the truth is the truth. you know. just say what is know. but can i just say what is even more interesting even even more interesting about nigel? and frankly, even more worrying him worrying worrying about him is that graham. sorry. he that he is a graham. sorry. he is decent graham i always is a decent graham i always thought was a decent bloke. he's one of very few working one of the very few working class to print class labour mps used to print the evening he the manchester evening news. he was and was very critical of my boss and let jeremy he's let alone jeremy corbyn. he's on the labour party. the right of the labour party. he he was he doesn't believe it. he was saying into the room saying it to play into the room because we don't know exactly. when see when i first heard, i see this was a of general of was a kind of general meeting of lancashire this to lancashire councillors. this to me was a meeting me sounds like it was a meeting exclusively labour exclusively of muslim labour members would been members. it would have been community famous community leaders that famous phrase, people have phrase, and people would have been to the gallery. um, been playing to the gallery. um, um graham would have been playing to the gallery to try and playing to the gallery to try anchu've almost admitted >> you've almost just admitted it. can't it. the labour party can't really much, it? really change too much, can it? well, it relies on well, i mean, it relies on muslim a large degree. >> i think what's happened is, is that the of left is that the sort of left antisemite ism that corbyn represented, which tends to be

from white of no religion. um um, lefties. that has actually been really clamped down on it was very obvious people were tweeting away about it. and that's those people have that's and those people have left droves , partly because left in droves, partly because of because of anti—semitism, because they've been kicked out, but also they've also had enough. but to stop the but what we need to stop in the labour is kind of labour party now is this kind of bartering of community politics. we should to the muslim we should talk to the muslim voters. should engage with voters. we should engage with the muslim voters. we've got voters. we should engage with th> problem. >> do. but let me just give problem. >> another but let me just give problem. >> another but let nlt'slst give problem. >> another but let nlt's notiive you another example. it's not only that does only the labour party that does it. there's a tory mp in peterborough. paul peterborough. um uh, paul bristow, he's employed bristow, who has he's employed

somebody in his office who the labour party kicked out for anti—semitism. been anti—semitism. that's been as reported jewish reported by the jewish chronicle. said he wasn't chronicle. and he said he wasn't going know going to sack him. i don't know if in the last few if he sacked him in the last few weeks, but this was when was reported. >> we get him on the programme. um, folks, >> we get him on the programme. um, been folks, >> we get him on the programme. um, been this folks, >> we get him on the programme. um, been this two folks, >> we get him on the programme. um, been this two and;s, i've been doing this two and a half years. we've never had a word like that it used word like that used. it was used in i'm sorry if any in error. and i'm sorry if any of watching or of your kids watching it are or you offended in a moment, you are offended by in a moment, you'll never guess the prime minister to build lots minister is going to build lots of houses on brownfield sites. i think i've heard that at every general election for the last 20 years. is there any particular reason to believe that time reason to believe that this time it really is going to happen .

radio. >> so how's the labour party changed? i don't doubt actually. honestly the keir starmer has tried to change it, but it doesn't look very to changed me. some of your reactions, gary

says this isn't a changed labour party . this is a party says this isn't a changed labour party. this is a party where the usual big mouths have been silenced pre—election. you just wait and see what happens. if they win . another says same old, they win. another says same old, same old. for labour it was inevitable. john says labour has not changed. starmer has tried to hide and keep a lid on anti—semitism, but he's failed. john, to be fair to keir starmer, you know, he has actually kicked people out of the party. he stopped jeremy corbyn standing he corbyn from standing again. he might have dithered a bit. he might have dithered a bit. he might dithered for a day might have dithered for a day or so it came to the so when it came to the by—election in rochdale. but in the act. has the end he did act. he has actually i mean, be to actually i mean, to be fair to him, think he's actually him, i think he's actually tried. i just think this stuff is rooted within the is so deep rooted within the labour party. and think their labour party. and i think their reliance what been that reliance on what has been that bloc muslim vote. and i say that because something like 85% of muslim voters have been voting laboun muslim voters have been voting labour, their reliance on it is so great that i think they're going to find it very difficult. and if they want to kick people out critical of out who are deeply critical of

israel their behaviour, i'm israel and their behaviour, i'm not in some of the inner not sure in some of the inner city they'll anybody city areas they'll have anybody left. now, when it comes to left. now now, when it comes to housing, i remember in 2015 when i was a party leader the i was a party leader in the general debates , general election debates, housing coming up and i raised the issue. did anybody think that the massive rise in population due to immigration had perhaps contributed to the housing problem? oh no , they all housing problem? oh no, they all said got nothing to do with it . said got nothing to do with it. we're building enough we're not building enough houses. know what? houses. well, you know what? even immigration, we even without immigration, we might struggling build might be struggling to build enough with immigration enough houses with immigration running at current levels, it is impossible. but sunak has got this target of 300,000 houses a yeah this target of 300,000 houses a year. i'm not sure this year it'll be even more than 200,000 houses that are built. according to developers that i've spoken to. but now a big pledge to build on brownfield sites . well, build on brownfield sites. well, folks, we hear this at every election . i think when it comes election. i think when it comes to building houses , it'll be to building houses, it'll be difficult to tell the difference, frankly, between labour and the conservatives. but will it actually happen? labour and the conservatives. but wi'mt actually happen? labour and the conservatives. but wi'm joinedlly happen? labour and the conservatives. but wi'm joined by happen? labour and the conservatives. but wi'm joined by james]? labour and the conservatives. but wi'm joined by james ijal , well, i'm joined by james ijal, external manager for

external affairs manager for pficed external affairs manager for priced out. tell us, james, what pnced priced out. tell us, james, what priced out is so priced out is britain's largest campaign for making housing affordable again . making housing affordable again. >> and the way we do this simply put, is to liberalise the planning system. as has been promised. time and time again by politicians and to build some more bloody houses. yep >> yeah. having trouble language tonight with everybody. but that's all just allow you that's all just about allow you that's all just about allow you that yeah . but we keep that one. um, yeah. but we keep heanng that one. um, yeah. but we keep hearing this, don't we? we keep heanng hearing this, don't we? we keep hearing housing targets that hearing of housing targets that have met. i've been have not been met. i've been told again and again that a series of eu directives on nitrates, for example. but other things make it so difficult, so expensive to build new houses, particularly in country areas. and anything that's within what's seen as a catchment area of a river suddenly becomes very difficult, very expensive to build. and yes, of course, we want to have environmental concerns, you know, then you've got , you know, local councils of got, you know, local councils of objecting, uh, people call it nimbyism, but hey, people don't want a huge number of houses

built in their backyard. is that why i sunak is now settled on brownfield development? >> well, i think a lot of it has to do with, um , the labour to do with, um, the labour party's recent talk about it. you know, there's been a lot of talk from the labour party and some really quite positive some of it really quite positive about, pledging about, you know, pledging to build about build more houses, about bulldozing, , nimbys out bulldozing, you know, nimbys out of way and actually getting of the way and actually getting some houses built. now, obviously we need see the obviously we need to see the details and need to see this details and we need to see this actually happen before any of us can bit too ahead of can get a bit too ahead of ourselves. but yeah, can. ourselves. but yeah, i can. i can that the can safely say that the conservative increased conservative party's increased volume been a direct result volume has been a direct result of the labour party's right. >> so it is. yeah, it's for tat. it's election time . what about it's election time. what about importantly , the feasibility of importantly, the feasibility of brownfield development because a lot of brownfield sites would have been industrial sites. they might have been chemical plants. it's not straightforward , is it? it's not straightforward, is it? >> no. um, brownfield is notoriously really difficult to actually build on. um, and i don't think there's anything wrong with necessarily a brownfield first policy, but i

think the issue comes into play when people start talking about a brownfield only policy , a brownfield only policy, because the situation is at the moment . you know, we've got what moment. you know, we've got what we greenfield. like moment. you know, we've got what we say greenfield. like moment. you know, we've got what we say thatenfield. like moment. you know, we've got what we say that greenfield like moment. you know, we've got what wesay that greenfield is like to say that greenfield is probably the best marketing trick of the 20th century, because what it's convinced people greenfield is people is that greenfield is just this illustrious, beautiful , green british countryside when the reality is actually a vast quantity is, um , rundown petrol quantity is, um, rundown petrol stations , it's abandoned farms. stations, it's abandoned farms. it is really just urban decay that you've never seen before. and, you know, siobhan macdonald from the labour party is under an job at highlighting an excellent job at highlighting that. the reality is, you that. and the reality is, you know, say, oh, that. and the reality is, you know, say, oh, let's know, when people say, oh, let's start building greenfield, that doesn't mean we start building on want doesn't mean we start building on start want doesn't mean we start building on start building want doesn't mean we start building on start building where want doesn't mean we start building on start building where we want doesn't mean we start building on start building where we can. nt to start building where we can. >> yeah . i mean, one of the >> yeah. i mean, one of the arguments that's been put is that post 1945, one of the solutions, obviously was a huge amount of rebuilding needed to be 30% of london's housing stock severely damaged, prefabs severely damaged, etc. prefabs of course, were actually quite effective . i'm not suggesting we effective. i'm not suggesting we go them, but they were

go back to them, but they were quite the concept quite effective. but the concept of towns, know , the of new towns, you know, the crawlies, etc. leading on later on to the milton keynes is perhaps the answer to start thinking about new towns . thinking about new towns. >> sure. well, there's been a lot of talk about new towns. >> labour have talked it >> labour have talked about it for sure. >> of conservative mps >> a lot of conservative mps really well. really like the idea as well. they to poundbury they look to poundbury is a really example that, and they look to poundbury is a r

may be. could the answer in london and some of our cities and yes, brownfield is part of it, answer to build up, it, is the answer to build up, you building up is you know what building up is absolutely fantastic. >> people are >> you know, a lot of people are calling for mansards to be built, really, really built, which are really, really fantastic it fantastic things because it keeps with, know , keeps it in line with, you know, community, character and all that, know , that, which is, you know, probably of the nimby probably number one of the nimby excuses we shouldn't be excuses as why we shouldn't be building x, y, z. and so, building x, y, and z. and so, you know, we really can build beautifully. really good beautifully. and a really good example of that is create streets. and they're who streets. and they're a group who will, um , regularly out, you will, um, regularly put out, you know, fantastic ideas and know, just fantastic ideas and fantastic of ways that we fantastic plans of ways that we can build beautifully in london and the east. and that's and the south east. and that's where be where we really need to be building london, building in london, the south east, most east, those are the most unaffordable this is unaffordable areas. and this is a demand problem, as a supply and demand problem, as i'm . i'm sure you'll know. >> of that actually going >> is any of that actually going to james god, i wish to happen? james god, i wish i could give could you could give you i could give you a answer. could give you i could give you a i answer. could give you i could give you a i wish swer. could give you i could give you a i wish iver. could give you i could give you a i wish i could give you >> i wish i could give you a good answer, but i think you've actually given the actually given me the answer i wanted tonight. >> rishi sunak has said. wanted tonight. >> thank shi sunak has said. wanted tonight. >> thank yousunak has said. wanted tonight. >> thank you forak has said. wanted tonight. >> thank you forjoining;aid. and thank you for joining me on the programme. i think what james very james said there was very insightful that insightful indeed that the big brownfield push we're getting

from is in direct from rishi sunak is in direct response to what's been said by keir starmer and the labour party. and, folks, you will see just much more of this just so much more of this between now and the general election, where they to election, where they try to match other. in fact, match each other. in fact, it might get point might even get to the point where you literally can't tell them apart on policy in a moment , we'll have a look at the law of consequences. , we'll have a look at the law of piece consequences. , we'll have a look at the law of piece ofconsequences. , we'll have a look at the law of piece of legislationes. tough piece of legislation pushed through by suella braverman as home secretary has actually left us now with 22,000 migrants totally in limbo and a daily for bill hotels .

sunak was kind of the earlier on gb news radio show . gb news radio show. >> we are going to do something. yes, we are going to pass legislation. the 7th of march 2023. the prime minister stood up and said, we're going to put forward the illegal migration bill, which in july of that year became the illegal migration act. and after that, if you come into this country , you will be

into this country, you will be detained, you will deported , detained, you will be deported, and you will not be able to stay . it all sounded tough and . it all sounded very tough and very strong. and suella braverman was home secretary very strong. and suella bravejobin was home secretary very strong. and suella bravejobin weto home secretary very strong. and suella bravejobin weto pilot)me secretary very strong. and suella bravejobin weto pilot this secretary . her job was to pilot this through parliament, but sometimes tough talk and legislation can lead to an outcome quite unlike that that was planned at the beginning, because it would seem that those that came between the 7th of march 2023 and the passing of the legislation on 20th of july, some, like 22,000 people, came, 11,000 of them across the engush 11,000 of them across the english channel. another 11,000 with poor documentation or with reasons that they shouldn't really be coming into the country. and it turns out that they are now stuck in some sort of legal limbo . haaland costing of legal limbo. haaland costing us £1.5 million a year. they can't really apply for asylum. we can't really get rid of them. it seems we're in a bit of a legal mess, at least . richard legal mess, at least. richard bartrem, senior immigration solicitor i think that's the position. >> well, it is, um , to a degree, >> well, it is, um, to a degree, the whole rwanda thing was a

little bit of a distraction. that was all about your asylum case is going to be processed in rwanda. what this is about is that your asylum case won't be processed at all and you will be removed, you only to go removed, but you only have to go three sections see that, three sections in to see that, because on the first page. because it's on the first page. um, so , so how that's going to um, so, so how that's going to work in practice is we don't know yet because the section three, we can change the dates. any of those dates at any time by statutory instruments . but by statutory instruments. but um, the home office are in a bit of a bind because they are. well, they're waiting for, i suppose the, the political to , suppose the, the political to, will to, um, start deeming cases inadmissible. and that's where the bus fight starts between the judges, the lawyers , the home judges, the lawyers, the home office, the politicians . but, office, the politicians. but, um, the legal migration act, office, the politicians. but, um, the legal migration act , the um, the legal migration act, the purpose is to deter illegal migration. but it also goes on to the whole point being, to provide the safe and legal

routes. now, if in in the, in the act and it's not it's actually in the act. the secretary of state must not should could would must um pubush should could would must um publish the legal routes access to legal routes, etc. so at the same time as people are who have come over in small boats, are have their claims deemed inadmissible or removed, one should expect that if all the provisions of the act are are implemented equally well, that provision is implemented. it's law as it is, um, we may expect it. i don't know the kind of afghan windrush flights sailing out of karachi with 5000 asylum seekers on it. well they won't be. there'll be asylum grants, presumably by uk border force in pakistan . yeah, yeah, but we pakistan. yeah, yeah, but we don't know anything about that . don't know anything about that. but the two go in hand in hand. they're the yin and the yang here. um, so where we end up. well for the moment, the home office are, you know, we have the, um, tactical surge team throwing out decisions left, right and centre to bring that backlog down. and then there's

always there's always wriggle room in legislation, special circumstances. was this sort of do you think this was rushed legislation that wasn't very well thought through? um, i certainly don't think it came out of the home office . um, and out of the home office. um, and i know with respect to the home office, i do have some respect for the for senior, um, for the for their senior, um, caseworkers uh, and caseworkers and, uh, and presenting officers. they know what i thought it was not fit for purpose. >> uh, well, um , i they can only >> uh, well, um, i they can only work with the tools given to them. >> and this is the tool that they've been given. so even with this tool, the illegal migration act, the guidance actually takes a step back and looks at reasonable excuses for not claiming asylum in a third country. that's before . we even country. that's before. we even get to the ins and outs of decades of legislation. literally decades of legislation on safe third countries. so so . on safe third countries. so so. there is there are some good things in here, some things that i might personally disagree with. the grant, the creation of

safe and legal routes has never been done, never been tried. it's actually extraordinary. and if it works, it's an absolute game changer. >> what would it reduce? numbers or increase numbers? >> well , it or increase numbers? >> well, it would put us in control of numbers. yeah. um, because there's that provision as well. and it would allow us to target at the places where, you know, the near borders where refugees are coming from, rather than who's got the to money pay $10,000 to a trafficker to bring them over. i have to say i'm sceptical . sceptical. >> i'm sceptical that numbers would come down. uh, but but who knows? yeah. who knows? as it is the other fascination with with this piece legislation is this piece of legislation is there was a home affairs committee meeting or 3 weeks committee meeting 2 or 3 weeks ago. james cleverly was there, and a couple of senior civil servants were with him. ryecroft you know, very, very senior was with him . and the question was with him. and the question was asked by tim loughton , tory mp asked by tim loughton, tory mp for . he said, you know for worthing. he said, you know what has happened to all the people who've come since the passing of the illegal migration

act, namely, what has happened to those across the to all those that across the channel july 20th? channel since july the 20th? and rycroft that nearly all rycroft admitted that nearly all of them are claiming asylum. it's as if we've passed a piece of legislation, but nothing's changed. well, you he's correct . changed. well, you he's correct. >> um, at the end of the day, i suppose it's going to be a political decision as much as a legal decision when to push the button yes. and button on this. yes. and political will, which you mentioned earlier when mentioned earlier on. and when push comes, i'm going to use this when push comes to shove. but do we have ferries ? no. but do we have the ferries? no. to people. do you have to remove people. do you have the planes? no. and the reality is that the human traffickers already own all the dinghies. so where are going that ? where are we going with that? >> political will, we >> but with political will, we could. you never know. just about move mountains. richard bartrem. thank you for coming in.thank bartrem. thank you for coming in. thank you. dear. a in. thank you. oh dear. what a complete and utter mess. it all is. despite the fine that is. despite the fine words that we a prime we were hearing from a prime minister and indeed from home minister and indeed from a home secretary. now, the the secretary. now, the what? the farage moment today really does come . do you remember the first come. do you remember the first protest that we saw in london,

the first palestinian protest we saw in london, and we saw three women wearing these paraglider images on their backs? this was very shortly after the horrendous offences that had been committed by paragliders at that youth and music festival that youth and music festival that took place in israel, and it caused outrage. well, they have, i'm pleased to say, been in court and they have by a jury, in court and they have by a jury, been found guilty of a terror offence. that terror offence being supporting a banned organisation, namely hamas and yet, as the trio lowered their heads and wept in the dock as the verdict was read out, they were spared jail after the judge decided their lesson had been well learned and gave them a 12 month conditional discharge . it almost seems to me discharge. it almost seems to me that we have a judge here who's gone against the guilty verdict of the jury. maybe i've made a

controversial comment. maybe i'll be slammed for saying it. but that's how it looks to me, and i don't feel comfortable about it at all. now now, a thought today for a fellow broadcaster and really , i think broadcaster and really, i think quite a legendary broadcaster. steve wright had been at the bbc since the 1970s, one of those voices around forever. over 40 years on radio 1, on radio two, for the last few years, nearly 20 years, it had been steve wright in the afternoon on radio two. and i think all of us at some point had listened to it. he presenting a sunday he also was presenting a sunday morning show, which he was still doing. and steve wright has doing. um, and steve wright has died today at the age of 69. we don't know what the cause of death was. and you know, too often the word is used. somebody was good at this or great at that. but actually , tell you that. but actually, tell you what, i appeared a few times on that steve wright show. i was interviewed by him, and that combination of doing live light

entertainment and music, but also adding in thoughtful current affairs is not an easy combination to get right. steve wright really did do it superbly . radio two, which you know has been for many, many years now. the most listened to radio station across the whole of europe and one of the most listened to in the world, believe it or not. but steve wright being shoved out of the afternoon slot, ken bruce being removed with his popmaster quiz from the mid—morning slot, has seen them lose an awful , awful seen them lose an awful, awful lot of listeners as having said that , if you lot of listeners as having said that, if you want lot of listeners as having said that , if you want current that, if you want current affairs gb news radio now in some parts of the country is beating all the others when it comes to current affairs, you haven't just got to watch us. you can listen to us in your car or wherever are with a dab or wherever you are with a dab radio. now. after i came off air last night, rishi sunak was there up in the north—east of england, taking on an audience in the people's forum . in

in the people's forum. in a moment we're going to do a bit of post—match analysis. i'll be joined by the editor of the express online, david maddox . express online, david maddox. did he perform well? did he do enough? and is that 25 point, you know, trail in the polls? is it even possible he can turn it around. did last night begin a positive process on patrick christys tonight , 9 to 11 pm? christys tonight, 9 to 11 pm? >> why are the people who are in charge who told us all to do the right thing , have left us all right thing, have left us all tied up ? the vaccine injured? tied up? the vaccine injured? are still being demonised. the victim that won't be silenced. john. what joins me in a tv exclusive . plus, after the azhar exclusive. plus, after the azhar ali chaos in rochdale, i interviewed shamima begum, lawyer who is standing against a labour mp on a pro—palestine ticket and is the pm right that a vote for reform is a vote for sir keir starmer? nigel farage is live responding that's patrick christie's tonight. it's 9 to 11 pm. be there

well gb news has branded itself the election channel and that is exactly what we intend to be on. >> what is going to be an incredibly busy year and a very long general election campaign. we're becoming rather like america, where the campaign sort of lasts for almost up to year of lasts for almost up to a year . so thought night's . so i thought last night's event , the people's forum, with event, the people's forum, with the prime minister, was a great idea for salvation. the polling company were used to find an audience of 100 people who were undecided , and it was very undecided, and it was very interesting. after the programme, after the show , you programme, after the show, you know, chris hope stood there. our political editor , and he our political editor, and he must have interviewed ten, 20 people coming out. and it was clear gone in clear most of them had gone in there genuinely un undecided there as genuinely un undecided voters. so i think as a piece of television, it actually worked incredibly well because it did exactly what it said on the tin.

i also think it's a good thing, because why would any other party leader be scared of coming on to a gb news people forum, knowing that actually we're doing it by the book and making it as fair as we possibly can? rishi sunak wasn't challenged, particularly in the sense that the people asked the questions. they didn't get the chance to come back. i was disappointed we didn't get debate on legal immigration, on the population explosion, but many other issues were discussed. interestingly vaccine harms seem to bring the most passion out of the audience and put the prime minister in an the most difficult position . but the most difficult position. but whilst he's absolutely competent at doing this and was no doubt and he's in control and he comes across as being perfectly polite and perfectly reasonable, it's all pretty robotic. and you've heard all the answers before and the tactic is just to keep repeating the same lines over and over again. did it do enough

to convince people and given that in the last 48 hours we've had two opinion polls, one in putting the conservatives on 22% of the national vote share and another putting them on 21% of the vote share. goodness gracious me. i actually think he needs something spectacular to turn around . well, david turn this around. well, david maddox, political editor of the express online, is a seasoned observer of these things . i observer of these things. i mean, the five pledges, it would appear that is the sort of centrepiece of his pitch, isn't it? well it is unfortunately. >> i mean , we may be going >> i mean, we may be going backwards on the five pledges this week . we await the this week. we await the inflation figures , the whether inflation figures, the whether we're going into recession. um, the nhs stuff, as was touched on twice , i think last night, uh, twice, i think last night, uh, is clearly concerning people as well . and, and of course we well. and, and of course we didn't get a question on immigration but, but you know, the small boats have not been stopped . stopped. >> well the reminder did come up, but but but but but but the sheer number of people coming

into the country didn't. what about , we can come back about i mean, we can come back to some detail, and i will, because jacob's here as well. um of what he mentioned. but what about we about his style? you know, we are an when are living in an age when television image, when how you look on twitter or x or whatever it may be, you know , how you it may be, you know, how you come across, whether you look and sound like a leader matters. let's look at rishi sunak and sound like a leader matters. le'action look at rishi sunak and sound like a leader matters. le'action lastook at rishi sunak and sound like a leader matters. le'action last night. rishi sunak in action last night. >> inflation has been more than halved from 11. when i got this job, to around 4. now the economy's outperformed expectations . debt is on track expectations. debt is on track to fall and because of all of that, we've been able to start cutting taxes. the number of illegal migrants crossing the channelis illegal migrants crossing the channel is down a third. last channel is down by a third. last year. channel is down by a third. last year . and although of course, year. and although of course, there are challenges in the nhs, we've the longest we've eliminated the longest waits people waiting two years or a year and a half and that is progress . progress. >> so he's very good. i mean, he's good at putting a spin on things, isn't he? but is that inspiring? it's competent, but

is it inspiring? i thought that format worked quite well for him. >> it was good for him. it was good for him. he looked personable. the audience clearly warmed to him and we saw that in the, the result of the the, you know, the result of the polling audience polling of the audience afterwards and he did well, very. it brought out the strengths in him because that's what he's a competent, what he is. he's a competent, personable individual who's actually pleasant to talk actually very pleasant to talk to on a 1 to 1 basis. and that kind of gave you the impression of 1 rishi. if you of his 1 to 1 rishi. if you like. i think he was clearly very nervous. and, you know , i very nervous. and, you know, i picked up in my analysis piece afterwards, you know, the number of times he said, right, as a. is a kind of . is a kind of. >> and did you know his mum was a chemist? did you know that? no, no , i mean but but but no, no, i mean but but but i mean, of course, you know , it's mean, of course, you know, it's as old as time that politicians will repeat the same lines which work you know, it's like labour has no plan. >> you know, they know that's working as an attack line. jacob will know that better than i because he's been at the

forefront of it. uh, you know, you have to pick the lines which work , but what? work, but what? >> the knock out line? >> where was the knock out line? where was where was the thing that said last night that that was said last night that would have them talking in the offices when they offices this morning when they all work? all arrived for work? >> issue with it, is >> that's my issue with it, is that they are behind that that they are so far behind that , uh, was something like that won't have done him any harm, and it will have done them a bit of uh, it's not the big, of good. uh, it's not the big, uh, thing that's going to turn things around. they need to do something much more dramatic, much more . more, uh, much more much more. more, uh, much more of a flourish , really. i mean, of a flourish, really. i mean, one, one some of his mps, some of your colleagues, jacob, were suggesting that he brought you a membership card that, you know, as this , you know, as before, this, you know, dustin, he's not going to do that. he's not going to do that . that. he's not going to do that. no. but but no. but he's like, but but you know something know, just something to change the narrative of and you know , the narrative of and you know, at the moment they're relying on uh, labour imploding. i think. >> yeah i was interesting jacob wasn't it. you know that that we got the five pledges and stop the boats has now become fewer

people came last he he puts people came last and he he puts a everything. and a spin on everything. and i guess everybody guess you could argue everybody in politics a certain in politics does to a certain extent . right. but it's almost extent. right. but it's almost as if there is sort of a grid that's been established. this is how we're going to fight the general election on, know, general election on, you know, labour to labour will take us back to square one. are making square one. we are making progress. sounds a bit like progress. this sounds a bit like cameron 2015, actually, in cameron in 2015, actually, in some is he really a some ways. but is he really a leader ? leader? >> but you've got the message, haven't you ? labour will take us haven't you? labour will take us back to square one. labour hasn't got a plan. >> i want to back to square >> i want to go back to square one. don't waleses all. one. i don't waleses all. everything's . everything's going wrong. >> um, i think people are crying out competence. i think out for competence. i think that is important. that is his, is important. and that is his, um, . vintage. and we see um, advice. vintage. and we see labourin um, advice. vintage. and we see labour in a complete mess over the last few days . the last few days. >> parliamentary parties not. >> parliamentary parties not. >> oh, but the labour party was trying to the election by trying to win the election by doing nothing . doing absolutely nothing. complete inertia and thinking we'll be fine because the tories aren't very popular. if in the next six months rishi sunak can show. look, i'm competent, i'm listening , i can actually meet listening, i can actually meet

voters and make reasonable points and be understood by them and relate to them, which i thought he did very well last night. and is dealing night. and starmer is dealing with another anti—semitic row, which was slow answer. which he was slow to answer. looked like the corbyn days of laboun looked like the corbyn days of labour. then suddenly, labour's strategy of just sitting there like a fat buddha ceases to work. >> the one slight problem with all you know, going >> the one slight problem with al|build you know, going >> the one slight problem with al|build housesknow, going >> the one slight problem with al|build houses and/, going >> the one slight problem with al|build houses and i'm goingg >> the one slight problem with al|build houses and i'm going to to build houses and i'm going to reduce i'm going reduce immigration and i'm going to and z is you've been to do x, y and z is you've been promising election after promising this at election after election 14 years. election for the last 14 years. if done it yet, if you haven't done it yet, why should believe now ? should we believe you now? >> in terms of house >> because in terms of house building, some >> because in terms of house buildiwhen some >> because in terms of house buildiwhen we've some >> because in terms of house buildiwhen we've achievedome years when we've achieved significant . so significant house building. so it's it's always been it's not as if it's always been bad. it's been difficult in the last years coming out last couple of years coming out of covid. it's been very slow . of covid. it's been very slow. so we haven't had the reform of the planning system that would the planning system that i would like mean, think the like to see. i mean, i think the 1947 town country act 1947 town country planning act is you should never is a reason why you should never vote labour. classic vote labour. it is classic socialist planning. yeah, it doesn't work. >> i'm not sure. 1947 is very high many people's but high in many people's minds, but , maybe is jacob. , you know, maybe it is jacob. maybe it but point i'm maybe it is. but the point i'm

making is, you know, when whether it's housing or whatever it i think people are now it is, i think people are now out there and i tried in 2015 to make a connection between a rapidly rising population and a problem with public services and houses. and i now think the british public have got that message. going to david message. i'm just going to david on know, seems to on that. you know, it seems to me between me the connection between housing, gp appointments and a population that's 10 million higher than labour to higher than when labour came to power . people know this power. people know this now, don't they they don't they? yes they do, they do. and why immigration is >> and that's why immigration is such issue. i mean, such a big issue. i mean, it's clearly why immigration, you clearly why immigration, if you live in london or one of the cities, uh, you'll certainly live in my part of london in east end. uh, it's an enormous issue because, you know, most people will have a street, a house on their street which has 20 people living in it, and things like that. they won't be able to get a gp appointment and won't be able to, you know, they've been told go and wait they've been told to go and wait for five hours a day and e, you they've been told to go and wait for fivforours a day and e, you they've been told to go and wait for fiv for something and e, you they've been told to go and wait for fiv for something minor you they've been told to go and wait for fiv for something minor and know, for something minor and it's ridiculous. >> you know, 20, ten, >> the 20, you know, 20, ten, 2015, 2017 when all those

manifestos said we will reduce net migration to tens of thousands by 2019, manifesto was worded slightly differently. but but the wording was very clear that immigration numbers were going to come down. they have exploded. jacob, isn't that the one thing where it's very , very one thing where it's very, very difficult to believe anything rishi says? >> actually, no . i think you're >> actually, no. i think you're very unfair to him. >> actually, no. i think you're very unfairto him. really >> actually, no. i think you're very unfair to him. really yes. he took the decision late last year to reduce legal migration and to make it much more difficult against very heavy pressure from the treasury mandarins and the obr. i'm afraid to say, if you want to blame the rise in migration, legal migration, the candidate you've got to point the finger at is my old friend boris johnson. it's not rishi sunak on this occasion . no, rishi is this occasion. no, rishi is putting right. no, i would putting it right. no, i would like go further because like him to go further because i think legal migration is the big problem. >> so do you think so? do you actually think legal migration in 2024 will be the tens of in 2024 will be in the tens of thousands? no, nor do i thousands? no, no, nor do i know. that's the point. but know. and that's the point. but was 1.4 million over the two years to the middle of 2023.

>> it has got to come down massively from that level. and we've got to tighten it up. part of our productivity problem is that we have been using the drug of cheap overseas labour, and it's been disastrous for us. >> every economist jacob told us that actually this would increase our productivity, which is nonsense. and if you look at it in particular, it since 2004, in particular, we're actually an excess of cheap foreign labour has done nothing for our productivity. whatever jacob, what's your main focus tonight? >> we're to be talking >> we're going to be talking about labour. its anti—semitism problem. what's with problem. um, what's gone on with their ali and their candidate, with mr ali and how they fail to act for so long? >> nightmare day for sama. >> nightmare day for sama. >> ten day actually , if by some >> ten day actually, if by some miracle, the conservatives do win the next election, i think we can date the beginning of the end for the labour party in october 7, when hamas attacked israel, because it's really said that party into a spin. >> it really has. well, as i said earlier on on this show, i think the rochdale by—election

that comes up at the end of this month going be absolute, month is going to be absolute, truly fascinating. i'm with truly fascinating. i'm back with you night, here at you tomorrow night, live here at 7:00 the studio before all of 7:00 in the studio before all of that, a look and see that, let's have a look and see what the weather has got in store for us. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers spot of weather on gb news is . on gb news is. >> hello again . very good >> hello again. very good evening to you alex burkill here with your latest gb news, weather forecast . yes across weather forecast. yes across scotland it is going to be a chilly night with some frost likely. us it's likely. but for most of us it's a cloudy , wet and mild story a cloudy, wet and mild story because of a weather system that pushed its way in earlier today and has already brought a fair amount of rain across many parts of england and wales. staying cloudy across many parts cloudy and wet across many parts through night and rain also through the night and rain also pushing into northern ireland too as we go through the early hours of tomorrow morning. however, scotland however, across much of scotland , clear here and with that , clear skies here and with that then temperatures taking a bit of a drop, few degrees of a drop, falling a few degrees below freezing . so fairly

below freezing. so a fairly harsh here, but much harsh frost here, but much milder elsewhere where we have those cloudy skies as we go through itself. then through tomorrow itself. then another grey gloomy day for most of us. further outbreaks of rain could heavy, could turn could be heavy, could turn persistent for a time in the south and some persistent rain pushing across of pushing in then across parts of scotland snow over the scotland with some snow over the highest ground. greatest chance of seeing any sunshine tomorrow will in the far north of will be in the far north of scotland, where it's scotland, but here's where it's also going chilliest also going to be. chilliest elsewhere day with elsewhere a pretty mild day with highs of around 14 or 15 celsius. mild for most on thursday. could be even milder than on wednesday, but again , than on wednesday, but again, cloudy with further outbreaks of rain and these could be pretty heavy at times. could see some localised impacts . notice some localised impacts. notice some heavier pushing into the heavier rain pushing into the south go into the south as we go into the afternoon . at moment afternoon. at the moment friday does look like it will be drier with some brighter or sunny spells, the rain spells, but then the rain returns in time for saturday. bye bye. i'll see you again sooi'i. 500“. >> soon. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> hello, good evening, it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nafion jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation tonight. first of all, it's a pleasure to be back. i thought rishi sunak was an admirable stand in, but as the labour party withdraws its support rochdale support for the rochdale by—election azhar by—election candide azhar ali after a longer recording appeared to reveal him blaming jewish the media. jewish people in the media. another labour mps suspension of parliamentary candidate graham jones , has come after comments jones, has come after comments he made at the same meeting. does this suggest antisemitism is alive and well in the labour party's organisation ? the party's organisation? the defence secretary, grant shapps, has promised to overrule the ministry of defence's to ministry of defence's plans to lower security standards in the name of boosting. yes you guessed equity and guessed diversity, equity and inclusion. meanwhile, new figures show 40% of violent shoplifter crimes are not being attended by the police in spite of claims that progress is being