stop now. >> russian authorities have been accused of doing everything they can to avoid handing over alexei navalny's body to his family yesterday , the 69 year old yesterday, the 69 year old mother of president putin's most vocal critic visited the remote penal colony where he died. she says. penal colony where he died. she says . she was told his body penal colony where he died. she says. she was told his body had been taken to a nearby morgue. but when she arrived, it was closed . meanwhile, in london, closed. meanwhile, in london, tributes are continuing today outside the russian embassy as people lay flowers and messages . people lay flowers and messages. navalny's spokespeople claim his death was orchestrated murder by putin. that's rejected putin. but that's been rejected by kremlin . two people have by the kremlin. two people have been charged by police and will appearin been charged by police and will appear in court after a pro—palestine demonstration in central london yesterday . 134 central london yesterday. 134 year old lucia whittaker de abrew, has been charged . with abrew, has been charged. with failing to remove a face

covering . the other 48 year old covering. the other 48 year old martin prady is accused of obstructing a police constable . obstructing a police constable. it comes after tens of thousands of protesters marched through the irish, scottish and english capitals major demonstrations capitals in major demonstrations against gaza and against the war in gaza and finally the prince of wales is attending the bafta film awards . attending the bafta film awards. tonight. his first high profile . tonight. his first high profile. royal engagement since his wife's operation. william, who is president of the arts charity, stopped to take selfies with members of the public as he made his way down the red carpet. the zone of interest by british glazer carpet. the zone of interest by britiwon glazer carpet. the zone of interest by britiwon bafta glazer carpet. the zone of interest by britiwon bafta for glazer carpet. the zone of interest by britiwon bafta for a glazer carpet. the zone of interest by britiwon bafta for a film er carpet. the zone of interest by britiwon bafta for a film not has won the bafta for a film not in the english language. robert downey won best downey jr has won best supporting actor for his role in oppenheimer da'vine joy oppenheimer and ed da'vine joy randolph supporting oppenheimer and ed da'vine joy randoljbafta supporting oppenheimer and ed da'vine joy randoljbafta her supporting oppenheimer and ed da'vine joy randoljbafta her surin»rting actress bafta for her role in the holdovers . well, for the the holdovers. well, for the latest stories, why not sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen right now, or go to gb news. com slash alerts. now time for free speech

nafion alerts. now time for free speech nation . nation. >> the royal society of literature fails to stand up for free speech. a man is arrested for pointing out that hamas are terrorists, and hotels are urged to build wider corridors to accommodate fatter guests . this accommodate fatter guests. this is free speech nation . welcome is free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. this is the show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics. and of course, we'll have the latest from those lovable culture warriors who this week decided a classic video game needs trigger warning needs a trigger warning for racism . more on that a little racism. more on that a little later. also coming up on the show tonight, professor eric kaufmann here to tell us why kaufmann is here to tell us why he's launching first public he's launching the first public onune he's launching the first public online on woke, prize online course on woke, prize winning miranda seymour winning author miranda seymour joins the gender joins us to discuss the gender censoring row caused censoring row that's caused a revolt among members of the royal society of literature and

campaigners against the proposed hate speech law in ireland will be here to tell us why, if adopted, it could be one of the worst violations of free speech the has ever seen. and of the west has ever seen. and of course, myself and my wonderful panel will be answering questions from our studio audience and comedian audience and my comedian panellists. this evening are cressida leo kearse . cressida wetton and leo kearse. welcome both. welcome >> how are you.7 >> how are you? >> yeah. good thanks. >> yeah. good thanks. >> now leo, you often performed at comedy unleash my monthly comedy a night. at comedy unleash my monthly comedy a night . we've had comedy a night. we've had complaints about the show last week, which has been quite funny . they've been tweeted out, we've explained we don't give refunds. if you're offended, that's a you problem. um, uh, you've thing you've had this kind of thing quite a lot as well, haven't you? >> yeah. who goes to some like comedy unleashed, you know, and then offended. whole then gets offended. the whole point it's supposed to, point of it is it's supposed to, you know, anything goes, you're going offended. but going to get offended. but yeah, i performing a top secret. i was performing a top secret. i was just telling the audience i was performing a top secret. i was juwealling the audience i was performing a top secret. i was juwe started,e audience i was performing a top secret. i was juwe started, um,dience i was performing a top secret. i was juwe started, um, sonce i was performing a top secret. i was juwe started, um, so i:e i was performing a top secret. i was juwe started, um, so i used before we started, um, so i used to do a solo show there every month, and somebody wrote in a complaint saying, i can't complaint email saying, i can't see in june. and

see leo kearse show in june. and he horrific. offensive he was horrific. and offensive and racist and and misogynist and racist and transphobic the rest of transphobic and all the rest of it. yeah, i was, because those things are all funny, but the they said and we can't see him again in october and he's still horrifically offensive. he's like, there's a solution here. you're not looking at i think it's great. >> they're giving you the benefit of the doubt, you know, coming back and just just verifying whether they were right. you're mean, seen right. you're i mean, i've seen your consider not. your act. consider you're not. so controversial leo kearse. so controversial as leo kearse. i well think i don't think well i think you've your but not you've got your moments. but not quite. you had any problems quite. have you had any problems with kind satellite? with this kind satellite? >> but i'm hoping i >> no, no, but i'm hoping i don't have to email them again next see you know, next time i see you know, exactly one more chance. let's get questions this get some questions from this rather audience. >> question comes from >> our first question comes from rogen >> our first question comes from roger. roger. roger. hi roger. >> hello. uh why people >> hello. uh why are people being punished for holding placards and having political opinions? >> this is a >> yeah, roger, this is a problem i'm, i'm really problem that i'm, i'm really grappling with because it's happening now. 12 happening more and more now. 12 people arrested for placard people were arrested for placard related offences. that was dunng related offences. that was during pro—palestine during yesterday's pro—palestine march in london. that's happening every weekend. of course, now. and, uh, the

arrests protesters arrests followed protesters using threatening using abusive, threatening words, displaying material deemed likely to stir up racial hatred . that's the that's the hatred. that's the that's the phrase they use, isn't it, leo? but one guy seemed to be, uh, get in trouble because he had a placard saying hamas were terrorists. >> yeah. which obviously just >> yeah. which is obviously just a fact . hamas a statement of fact. hamas wouldn't deny that themselves. they'd yeah, know they'd be like, yeah, you know what? we love what? we are terrorists. we love it. love terror . it. we love terror. >> i think hamas are gutted like the them the bbc won't call them terrorists they're terrorists because they're trying their damnedest, aren't they? but i think the mistake >> but i think the mistake people make thinking that the people make is thinking that the police of police are there to sort of enforce law, and they're enforce the law, and they're there the peace. so if there to keep the peace. so if there's somebody if you've got a mob 250,000 woke people and mob of 250,000 woke people and islamists are there to, you islamists who are there to, you know, to sort of, uh, hate on israel, a lot of them . um, and israel, a lot of them. um, and you have somebody there who says, actually, hamas are bad , says, actually, hamas are bad, then they're going to arrest that person to, to protect him, to protect him and make the situation peaceful. >> just saw the image >> well, we just saw the image on the screen of the guy being dragged away roughly. dragged away quite roughly. i

have this have to say. but cressida, this is a good point, that there is again, um, but one thing i've always thought about these pro—palestine if you always thought about these proprolestine if you always thought about these propro palestine, if you always thought about these propro palestine, surely if you always thought about these propro palestine, surely the you are pro palestine, surely the first thing you should criticise is what you should be is hamas. what you should be saying are terrible saying is hamas are terrible for the people. are the palestinian people. they are responsible for deaths that responsible for the deaths that are in palestine now. are occurring in palestine now. um, why don't they stand up um, so why don't they stand up and one guy does? and do that when one guy does? so off by the so he gets dragged off by the police? i completely agree police? well, i completely agree with you, if you're going to with you, but if you're going to criticise hamas, got to criticise hamas, you've got to do very carefully, do it very, very carefully, haven't you? >> right. you don't to do a >> right. you don't want to do a lord trouble at lord austin. he's in trouble at the criticising the moment for criticising hamas. offensively he he hamas. uh, offensively he he didn't nicely. why do we didn't do it nicely. why do we have to protect hamas's feelings? >> i don't know if you've got to be very careful if you're be very, very careful if you're going do it. going to do it. >> austin, so now this >> so lord austin, so now this was guy he was representing was the guy he was representing a charity called what was it called? midland. midland. >> called midland. midland. >> called midland. midland. >> midland heart. and they've asked to back because asked him to step back because he know the he tweeted out you know the details. >> did details. » did >> we did a sort of leo kerr style joke didn't he. >> he said he basically said like before you go to like go down before you go to sleep tonight. >> down to your basement and

>> go down to your basement and check aren't any check there aren't any terrorists down there because it's because it's easily missed, because basically to the basically it's referring to the fact effort fact that the un relief effort charity the charity in palestine and the gaza strip, uh, had, uh, harboured terrorists, employed terrorists, harboured terrorists, employed terr0| payroll. harboured terrorists, employed terr0|payroll. was right. their payroll. it was right. yeah if it's not there, yeah yeah. if it's not there, i'm probably get sued. i'm probably going to get sued. but did. they had they had but they did. they had they had to a lot of countries suspended funding fire funding and they had to fire these employees you these employees because, you know, oh, it says know, they're like, oh, it says here and your cv. uh, yeah 1993 to 2023, you're in hamas and you've been killing people. so yeah, i mean, it just shows how how the united nations charities, these global organisations , these woke organisations, these woke organisations, these woke organisations are often just hand glove with the worst , hand in glove with the worst, the worst terrorist the absolute worst terrorist organisations in the world. >> i understand why >> i don't understand why pointing tunnel, pointing out that this tunnel, these tunnel networks exist, the fact when hamas gets aid fact that when hamas gets aid money country, for the money for the country, for the palestinian they spend palestinian people, they spend it of thing. yeah. it on this kind of thing. yeah. and for him to get in trouble for out that they are for pointing out that they are islamist, that's the correct word. feels like. word. it feels like. >> yeah, think people don't >> yeah, i think people don't separate from just >> yeah, i think people don't separa'do from just >> yeah, i think people don't separa'do they? from just islam, do they? >> like there's some kind >> it's like there's some kind of very sensitive to muslim

people. absolutely. of very sensitive to muslim peoand absolutely. of very sensitive to muslim peoand abso goes 1. to of very sensitive to muslim peoand abso goesr. to your >> and that goes back to your point. why aren't they, uh, why isn't everybody condemning point. why aren't they, uh, why isn't eveofody condemning point. why aren't they, uh, why isn't eveofody conothering point. why aren't they, uh, why isn't eveofody conother than hamas? of course, other than hamas? of course, other than hamas? should your >> well, that should be your first call, shouldn't first port of call, shouldn't it? >> okay, i'm not saying you can't criticise israel on the israeli government's approach, but to with hamas but you have to start with hamas and pogrom that they and the pogrom that they committed the 7th, committed on october the 7th, surely. anyway, let's get a question shirley. hi question now from shirley. hi shirley. hello. >> is a debate on gender >> um, is a debate on gender really a right far right. >> i'm so bored of that phrase. you know what i mean? like anyone who talks about anyone who acknowledges there are who acknowledges that there are two suddenly far right, two sexes is suddenly far right, because that's what that's what hitler were hitler and mussolini were all about. this this question about. um, this this question from shirley is, course, from shirley is, of course, about they've been about labour. they've been accused undemocratic accused of being undemocratic because pub because they pressured a pub into cancelling debate . and into cancelling a debate. and this debate features kelly j. keane who's been on this show a couple of times , and she's a couple of times, and she's a campaigner, and she was just on the panel and, uh, and this was an event at a pub hosted by the tottenham conservative association to go ahead association meant to go ahead yesterday got yesterday and then they got a letter saying that they couldn't do because kelly keane do it because kelly j. keane apparently attracts far right

groups. tried this apparently attracts far right grou|before, tried this apparently attracts far right grou|before, but tried this apparently attracts far right grou|before, but because d this apparently attracts far right grou|before, but because some trick before, but because some awful, ghastly neo—nazi types turned up near to an event that she was holding in australia, they kind of tried to blame that on her and suggest that the two were the same thing. they weren't that was an opportunistic group turning up to. they're not neo—nazi, aren't pro—feminist, they're not pro. an event called let women speak. that's just ridiculous. yeah yeah. >> and this only seems to go in one direction. i mean, if you go , uh, to any sort of left wing march, you're going to get the craziest cranks and the most, you know, left you you know, far left mouse. you see know, literally see people, you know, literally waving communist flag, waving the communist flag, which is the of is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of people. i fortunately, most of i mean, fortunately, most of those were communist, so those people were communist, so it's a good thing. but it's, you know, i just think there needs to be some parity and some of the, some of the, uh, of the, some of the, uh, some of the, some of the, uh, some of the criticism keane, the criticism of kelly keane, like zealand's tv , blurred like new zealand's tv, blurred her, uh, touching her zip because they said that her touching her zip was a far right , uh, dog whistle because she's, she's making that symbol when

she's making that symbol when she wasn't making the symbols, just adjusting her zip. and also, this isn't a far right symbol. >> okay. >> okay. >> or i might masturbate later. that's, you know, this. yeah. >> i mean, that's that was incredible because she obviously wasn't symbol. wasn't making that symbol. anyway. would just adjusting wasn't making that symbol. anytop. would just adjusting wasn't making that symbol. anytop. but would just adjusting wasn't making that symbol. anytop. but this|ld just adjusting wasn't making that symbol. anytop. but this new st adjusting wasn't making that symbol. anytop. but this new zealanding wasn't making that symbol. anytop. but this new zealand ,|g her top. but this new zealand, uh, news channel blurred out the hand so they could pretend hand so that they could pretend that was some horrible, ghastly. >> i mean, this is the finger swastika. >> she's talked about having voted labour in the past. she's so not far right. but also, even if were right wing, which if she were right wing, which she they be she isn't, why would they be banning panel there's banning a panel where there's a discussion about one of the most important issues day? important issues of our day? >> a labour playing out here. >> they're anti —democratic, aren't >> they're anti—democratic, aren't they? they just kind of playing a mole with things playing whack a mole with things they like. think maybe playing whack a mole with things the write like. think maybe playing whack a mole with things the write lthe think maybe playing whack a mole with things the write lthe pub nk maybe playing whack a mole with things the write lthe pub and1aybe playing whack a mole with things the write lthe pub and say,3 playing whack a mole with things the write lthe pub and say, i i'll write to the pub and say, i do want to see kelly j. keane there. >> yeah, but they won't listen to you. >> no they e no they won't, to you. >> no they won't, they won't. >> cause you've got the unfashionable opinion. >> well, on unfashionable >> well, on the unfashionable workplace. um, no. yeah, exactly. >> just nightmare. exactly. >> let's st nightmare. exactly. >> let's move ightmare. exactly. >> let's move ontmare. exactly. >> let's move on tmare we've anyway, let's move on now. we've got a question from maureen. hi,

maureen. yeah. >> hi. andrew. >> hi. andrew. >> second cousin of >> who is a second cousin of mine. should i am indeed, yes. mine. i should i am indeed, yes. >> very proud to be second >> very proud to be a second cousin yours. yes. well, cousin of yours. yes. well, thank you very few. ah, thank you. >> thank em- you. >> thank for that. yeah. >> thank you for that. yeah. >> thank you for that. yeah. >> thank you for that. yeah. >> thank you. and my question is, only be arrested is, should you only be arrested if singing? voice bad. if you're singing? voice is bad. yeah >> it's good mn- >> it's a good question. so there police officer there was a met police officer who was seen threatening a christian preacher on with arrest because of the grounds arrest because of on the grounds of hate crime. and this is of a hate crime. and this is just weeks after a gospel singer was threatened with arrest for singing uh, and singing religious songs. uh, and the evangelist could be heard protesting their innocence in a video to youtube. i think video posted to youtube. i think we can show you a clip of that video. >> space protection order is the legislation. documented by legislation. it's documented by the local council . uh, and for the local council. uh, and for example , it's against public example, it's against public space protection order to amplify the speech with a, with amplify the speech with a, with a speaker and with a microphone. >> but obviously, a crime has been committed. we need to investigate. okay or do you want a fine? because you a £100 fine? because if you don't that, we can deal don't want that, we can deal with in custody. with it in custody. >> i'm not trying to be rude. i just want to ask one question.

>> sir, trying to be >> you are sir, trying to be rude. >> e- $- e ask you a question. >> i wanna ask you a question. thank you, you. officer, thank you, thank you. officer, can ask you the question? i'm can i ask you the question? i'm not. i'm not asking you the question. okay? >> okay. but you're aware that i can fine you for that. >> and talking not >> and i'm talking not a question. second, one question. one second, one second. you are. one second. second. who you are. one second. >> you do not one second, you >> if you do not one second, you for one second, one second. >> i know you say that >> now, leo, i know you say that the there to protect. >> now, leo, i know you say that the keep there to protect. >> now, leo, i know you say that the keep the there to protect. >> now, leo, i know you say that the keep the peace. to protect. >> now, leo, i know you say that the keep the peace. yeah.»tect. >> now, leo, i know you say that the keep the peace. yeah. iact. >> now, leo, i know you say that the keep the peace. yeah. i don't >> keep the peace. yeah. i don't see how bad singing is really going to affect the peace. well, i it affects. i suppose it affects. >> it's annoying. and also, it might be nice singing. >> it's annoying. and also, it might ididn'te singing. >> it's annoying. and also, it might ididn't even.ng. >> it's annoying. and also, it might ididn't even. we didn't >> it's annoying. and also, it migh hearin't even. we didn't >> it's annoying. and also, it migh hear the even. we didn't >> it's annoying. and also, it migh hear the singing. didn't >> it's annoying. and also, it migh hear the singing. uh,�*|'t >> it's annoying. and also, it migh hear the singing. uh, but. even hear the singing. uh, but. yeah, singing, uh, yeah, because he's singing, uh, you verses i guess, you know, bible verses i guess, you know, bible verses i guess, you and sadiq khan's you know, and sadiq khan's london as, uh, as london that seen as, uh, as inflammatory or not woke enough or something like that, but i bet they do this with bet they wouldn't do this with a religion christianity. >> well, need to do >> well, they need to do is rewrite bible accordance rewrite the bible in accordance with intersectional ideas. yeah, that's the way why that's the way to do it. why not do that? that's the way to do it. why not do well, i saw more of that clip >> well, i saw more of that clip earlier, and he specifically talked about gay people, and he said, saved by said, everybody can be saved by jesus. and ran list of

jesus. and he ran off a list of people and he said, gay people. >> that was one of his gay people are included. >> yes, that's what he said. so whether changed his tune when whether he changed his tune when the don't the police turned up, i don't know. idea that he'd know. but this idea that he'd been of homophobia, been accused of homophobia, it wasn't say. wasn't what i heard him say. >> even if i mean, i'm >> but even if i mean, i'm sorry, i've walked past street protests, people on the streets screaming, know, gay people screaming, you know, gay people are burn in hell. are going to burn in hell. you're find it you're all evil. i find it hilarious. know? hilarious. you know? i don't want arrested. want them arrested. >> i'll tell you what else. >> i look at that clip and i think, god, i never want to join the police. doesn't look the police. doesn't it just look so boring? yeah, kind so wobbly and boring? yeah, kind of another bad so wobbly and boring? yeah, kind of for another bad so wobbly and boring? yeah, kind of for the another bad so wobbly and boring? yeah, kind of for the police. nother bad so wobbly and boring? yeah, kind of for the police. and er bad so wobbly and boring? yeah, kind of for the police. and also d look for the police. and also also the police look like the ideologues. >> they're coming ideologues. >> they're ey're coming ideologues. >> they're ey're morality along. they're the morality police. they're saying, oh, no, these you can't you these opinions. you can't you can't loud can't voice them out loud in london. >> e they should go to >> yeah, yeah, they should go to iran they morality iran where they have morality police. should police. that's what they should do. our final question police. that's what they should do. the our final question police. that's what they should do. the momentinal question police. that's what they should do. the moment comesestion police. that's what they should do. the moment comes from ryan. from the moment comes from ryan. ryan welcome back. >> good evening. uh can >> hi. good evening. uh can tiktok influencers deter migrants? tiktok influencers deter migrarthere are claims is that >> so there are claims is that the home office has a budget of about to pay overseas about £30,000 to pay overseas influencers to deter illegal migration. a short list of migration. uh a short list of influencers. influencers in

albania supposedly includes a rapper , two comedians, lifestyle rapper, two comedians, lifestyle bloggers , tv personalities, a bloggers, tv personalities, a travel writer . it's quite a good idea. >> i suppose it's fantastic and i no doubt leo will be going to albania for his next holiday to make some videos , some context. make some videos, some context. >> i mean, why give away the budget ? that's the first mistake. >> it's true though. >> it's true though. >> it's true though. >> i mean, these are claims at the moment. well, we the moment. well, i well, we don't know for sure, we. the moment. well, i well, we doryeah. w for sure, we. the moment. well, i well, we doryeah. no, r sure, we. the moment. well, i well, we doryeah. no, r mean, we. the moment. well, i well, we doryeah. no, r mean, this. the moment. well, i well, we doryeah. no, r mean, this does >> yeah. no, i mean, this does make sense to, to, to an extent because lot the migration because a lot of the migration is social media. so because a lot of the migration is know, social media. so because a lot of the migration is know, when ial media. so because a lot of the migration is know, when albanians so because a lot of the migration is know, when albanians were you know, when albanians were getting here or other other migrants they migrants were getting here, they weren't , you know, weren't always having, you know, the they'd been the time that they'd been promised but they want promised, but they didn't want to reveal to people back home that know, tougher that it was, you know, tougher than so. than they'd heard. so. so they're posting videos of they're all posting videos of them in their, in their state, paid for hotels, you know , doing paid for hotels, you know, doing the cheap versions of mtv's cribs. >> yeah, yeah . >> yeah, yeah. >> yeah, yeah. >> shifting off the £10 notes that, you know, they've made washing cars or whatever. >> the problem with all this, >> the problem with all of this, you these are being you know, these people are being exploited by people traffickers and i think the

and gangsters. i don't think the solution pay tiktok solution is to pay some tiktok influencer to deter people. >> i think the is >> i think the solution is deaung >> i think the solution is dealing with the criminals. >> yeah, well. but >> well, yeah, that as well. but i know, advertising i mean, you know, advertising stuff to people stuff on tiktok to young people that works . that works. >> the criminals, the criminals are another country. i are in another country. so i mean, really much mean, we don't really have much jurisdiction over, france jurisdiction over, over france or turkey. >> luckily, french police >> luckily, the french police are good job to are really doing a good job to deal with them, aren't they? well, they've got no incentive how. >> now. >> france no incentive >> france has got no incentive to stop them. no, eu wants to stop them. no, the eu wants to stop them. no, the eu wants to leaving. to punish britain for leaving. so know, basically so you know, they're basically saying yeah , not saying like, yeah, we're not going them coming through. >> well look, that's >> all right. well look, that's what time for in this what we got time for in this section. but coming up, campaigners the proposed section. but coming up, camrspeechi the proposed section. but coming up, camrspeech law the proposed section. but coming up, camrspeech law ireland'oposed section. but coming up, camrspeech law ireland will;ed hate speech law in ireland will be tell us why. if it's be here to tell us why. if it's adopted, it will be one of the worst speech worst violations of free speech that seen. you're that we've ever seen. you're watching to free watching and listening to free speech nation on .

to gb news radio. >> welcome back to free speech

nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle, ireland's controversial criminal justice bill is currently at committee stage, but it's already causing uproar. >> both at home abroad. the >> both at home and abroad. the country's department of justice says the bill's purpose is to protect those who are most vulnerable to crime . it vulnerable to hate crime. it will higher sentences will allow for higher sentences if someone is convicted of assaulting a person on the basis of for protected of hatred for protected characteristics, including race, religion, gender and disability. but critics, including elon musk, say the proposed legislation excessively encroaches upon freedom of expression , often with little expression, often with little clarity on what defines incitement to hatred . so to incitement to hatred. so to discuss this, i'm delighted to say i'm joined by free speech commentator and campaigner lois mcclatchey . so critics will say mcclatchey. so critics will say what critics of yours might say. but this is against hate. it's against stirring up hatred. why are you supporting that? >> sure, this could actually be one of the furthest reaching censorial bills that we've ever seen in western europe. now, the bill bans hate speech and you

might think, well, well, good. nobody likes to be insulted. nobody likes to be insulted. nobody likes to be insulted. nobody likes to be offended. but here's bill here's the thing the bill doesn't speech doesn't clarify what hate speech actually gives the actually is. so it gives the government the free gambit to define what they don't like as material has to be censored material that has to be censored in the country of ireland . in the country of ireland. >> this is a major problem across europe. whenever you see these enacted, these hate speech laws enacted, no a standard no one seems to have a standard definition hatred means definition of what hatred means in fact, i believe the irish government's was government's definition was a circular went back circular one. it went back to hatred, isn't helpful, is it? >> well, that's exactly right. and instead of taking heed of the warning that they must define it, they've said they want to future proof the law and allow that openness for new things that can come into society, that they want to define as hate in the future. >> sort thing, >> so this sort of thing, though, can't be weaponized though, can't this be weaponized by with an agenda? by people with an agenda? i mean, just the government mean, not just the government criminalising but for criticises them, but for example, are gender example, people who are gender critical feminists, for instance , are often attacked as being hateful when all they doing hateful when all they are doing is expressing perfectly legitimate views that most people absolutely . people hold well, absolutely. >> international, we've

>> and adf international, we've been against these been campaigning against these hate speech across the hate speech laws across the world. seen what world. so we've seen what happens they are put into happens when they are put into place now finland recently we place now in finland recently we had a big case a had a big case where a politician grandmother was politician and a grandmother was put through two criminal trials on the basis that she had tweeted a bible verse and questioned her church's decision to sponsor the pride event in helsinki. now she obviously has one of persuasion one outfit, a christian one, but because the government found that this was offensive , she was dragged offensive, she was dragged through two criminal trials and has been appealed to the supreme court mexico . similarly, court in mexico. similarly, we had , we supported the defence had um, we supported the defence of quadri, a politician there, who had tweeted about his gender critical views. and because because the government there, the court found him to be offensive. he was not only placed on an offenders register , placed on an offenders register, he has been forced to tweet an apology on twitter on x every day for 15 days, twice a day, because of his words, of your humiliation on this is insane, unbelievable, unbelievable . and unbelievable, unbelievable. and these hate speech laws are just

spreading from country to country. and we need learn spreading from country to countthese d we need learn spreading from country to countthese examplesi learn spreading from country to countthese examples thatearn spreading from country to countthese examples that freedom from these examples that freedom of really important, of speech is really important, but will say, yes, but but people will say, yes, but the irish government know the irish government will know not and can not to go that far and we can trust them, we? trust them, can't we? >> can we? yeah. i'm not so sure. >> but that's the point, isn't it, that we've seen examples of where governments go too far on this. >> exactly. and it depends on the government's standards the government's own standards of consider to be of what they consider to be so—called hate speech. so it puts conversations on in the real world, but also online about abortion , gender, about abortion, gender, marriage, of the things that marriage, all of the things that are political topics. are hot political topics. but really important society. it really important to society. it will on will chill conversations on those topics . issues. those topics. issues. >> now, international has >> now, adf international has made raise awareness made a video to raise awareness of campaign . i made a video to raise awareness of campaign. i think we of this campaign. i think we have a clip of that . have a clip of that. >> where you on x ? >> where are you on x? >> where are you on x? >> no who you are, where >> no matter who you are, where you're from, or what your beliefs are, you're probably here for the same us here for the same reason as us to share views and your opinions. >> in finland , i was criminally >> in finland, i was criminally charged and put on trial twice over four years for my bible verse tweet state prosecute has

appealed my case to the supreme court. >> a mexican court forced me to delete my posts and to post an apology on x two times a day for 15 days. >> and you can see this full video if you go to the twitter account of adf international, it's the pinned tweet up there so you can have a look at that. of course, we're not meant to call it twitter anymore. it's x x formerly known as twitter, formerly as twitter. but formerly known as twitter. but lois, you know you make this point those people point about some of those people perfectly been people who have been criminalised, dragged through people who have been crincourts. d, dragged through people who have been crincourts. ofiragged through people who have been crincourts. of course, through people who have been crincourts. of course, sometimes the courts. of course, sometimes some people the courts. of course, sometimes somihave people the courts. of course, sometimes somihave some people the courts. of course, sometimes somihave some unpleasant�*ple the courts. of course, sometimes somihave some unpleasant things who have some unpleasant things to taken to court. to say also get taken to court. but we have to protect free speech for them well, don't we? >> that's right. and it will actually impact all of us outside of ireland as well, because people don't because what many people don't know is that x twitter is headquarters for europe. middle east and africa are in dublin. so this law could actually make the management and the directors

of culpable for of x personally culpable for hate speech that they platform on their on on x, so that affects what all of us get to tweet and to discuss online. so this is much bigger than just evenin this is much bigger than just even in ireland. and that's why elon musk has been looking at this bill with with great concern. and he has pledged to back legal defence of those back the legal defence of those who have been affected by the bill and to challenge the bill himself, which is excellent. but i what video i think what this video has done, a great job of done, such a great job of showing is that around the world, we appalled by this world, we are appalled by this and we all need to stand up against censorship see against censorship where we see it. a lot of people will >> i think a lot of people will be really baffled that this has happened. i would happened. you know, i would say roughly years we had roughly 15, 20 years ago, we had reached of consensus in reached a kind of consensus in this country yes, free this country that, yes, free speech we stand up speech is the thing we stand up for. we don't need to debate the legitimacy of that anymore. what's ? what's happened? >> i suppose >> cancel culture, i suppose it's a move towards anyone who says the wrong thing or falls out of line with the dominant religion of our day is , you religion of our day is, you know, excommunicated from our society . it's actually not a new society. it's actually not a new idea. it's a very, very old

idea. it's a very, very old idea. somehow kind of idea. but somehow it's kind of come back into society and those of us who realise the importance of us who realise the importance of able to of everybody being able to engage conversations even engage in conversations, even if we but finding those we disagree, but finding those ways come towards truth or to ways to come towards truth or to even settle our disagreements amicably is the pinnacle of a flourishing society and close to home. >> we also have problems in in your country, in scotland we do. >> we always do . >> we always do. >> we always do. >> they're a bit step ahead of ireland . ireland. >> i think they've already implemented bill. >> passed our hate speech law >> we passed our hate speech law in 2021, but police have in 2021, but the police have actually in 2021, but the police have actltoly in 2021, but the police have actlto implement it yet because not to implement it yet because they don't feel that they have they don't feel that they have the resources to around the resources to be going around managing essentially managing squabbles. essentially as that law was as soon as that law was implemented, they huge implemented, they had a huge spike about spike in complaints about tweets, things that people had said that were deemed nasty onune said that were deemed nasty online or just inappropriate or online orjust inappropriate or whatever it was offensive. and so they said, well, we simply can't this. we've also can't manage this. we've also got you know, police got to, you know, police robberies, etc. um, so have robberies, etc. um, so they have asked for the delay. now, i do believe that there are motions to try and get that law in this year as they are running out of

time. >> ? worry is, ? worry is, mean, >> well, the worry is, i mean, humza he was humza yousaf, when he was justice he justice secretary, he was instrumental the instrumental in the implementation bill. and implementation of this bill. and one of the things that he put in the bill or the snp put in the bill, was that you could be criminalised something criminalised for something offensive your offensive. you've said in your own this is how own home. yes. so this is how draconian is. and i don't draconian this is. and i don't see any signs that snp, see any signs that the snp, uh, want down in any way. >> that's right. i mean, they obviously have faced a lot of resistance, but you're right, that law with, that law passed with, uh, a scenario . it could be that you scenario. it could be that you are sitting with your family dinner and you say something, perhaps critical perhaps about gender critical theory whatever the hot topic theory or whatever the hot topic of day if your kids of the day is. if your kids report their teacher report you to their teacher and the teacher reports you to the authorities, means that you authorities, that means that you could punishment your authorities, that means that you coulspeech. punishment your free speech. >> well, it's as we >> well, it's as though we haven't history. >> well, it's as though we havin't history. >> well, it's as though we havi mean, history. >> well, it's as though we havi mean, the history. >> well, it's as though we havi mean, the idea history. >> well, it's as though we havi mean, the idea of story. >> well, it's as though we havi mean, the idea of children >> i mean, the idea of children informing on their parents, that's it's that's not a new thing. it's happened pretty grim happened in some pretty grim totalitarian societies not that long that long ago. totalitarian societies not that lon exactly, that long ago. totalitarian societies not that lon exactly, exactly long ago. totalitarian societies not that lon exactly, exactly .>ng ago. >> exactly, exactly. >> exactly, exactly. >> so what we actually do >> so what can we actually do and can your average person and what can your average person do back. and what can your average person do back . against what's do to push back. against what's happening in all of these

governments, not just ireland, i think. >> well, if you're in ireland, you can write to your mp and if you're here, you can write to your think the your mp as well. i think the political action this and political action on this and raising the alarm showing raising the alarm and showing that resistance that there is public resistance against censorship can go a long, way. would long, long way. so i would encourage anyone is in encourage anyone who is in ireland or in scotland or wherever speech laws ireland or in scotland or wheoccurring speech laws ireland or in scotland or wheoccurring , speech laws ireland or in scotland or wheoccurring , um, speech laws ireland or in scotland or wheoccurring , um, to peech laws ireland or in scotland or wheoccurring , um, to get:h laws ireland or in scotland or wheoccurring , um, to get inlaws are occurring, um, to get in touch with their leaders touch with their local leaders and politicians that and politicians and make that really your free really clear and use your free speech. speak out against censorship whatever censorship on x, on whatever platform you are in real life platform you are on in real life to louise mccarthy, thanks ever so much joining me. so much forjoining me. >> so much. >> thank you so much. >> thank you so much. >> and next on free speech nation, my panel will be answering some more questions from our lovely studio audience , from our lovely studio audience, including, i'm told, one about a classic video game which is depicting old fashioned racist stereotypes. >> you won't want to miss that this is free speech nation on . this is free speech nation on. gb news on mark dolan tonight, in my big opinion. >> why are the conservative is losing? because they're not

concerned anymore. my mark meets guest is legendary former labour mp and celebrated diarist. guest is legendary former labour mp and celebrated diarist . chris mp and celebrated diarist. chris mullin. and in my take at ten, john lewis are in hot water for launching a magazine which recommends breast binders for young girls . when did they give young girls. when did they give up selling electronic . goods and up selling electronic. goods and the latest fashions? we're live at nine.

listening to gb news radio . listening to gb news radio. >> welcome back to free speech nation. later in the show, i'm going to be turning agony uncle with the help of my panel, cressida wetton and leo kearse. we're going help you deal we're going to help you deal with unfiltered dilemmas. we're going to help you deal with you've1filtered dilemmas. we're going to help you deal with you've gotzred dilemmas. we're going to help you deal with you've got any dilemmas. we're going to help you deal with you've got any personals. so if you've got any personal problems email why problems, just email us. why wouldn't ? gb views gb news. wouldn't you? gb views gb news. com we're going to do our best to sort your life out. anyway, let's get more questions let's get some more questions from audience. first from the audience. first question mike. hello mike. question from mike. hello mike. >> hi, andrew. would you rather ride the elizabeth or the

lioness line? that's a good question . question. >> so the six as i understand it, six new overground lines , it, six new overground lines, uh, £6 million. >> they cost . that's a million >> they cost. that's a million a line. that's not bad at. and they are called the lioness line. the mildmay or mildmay. >> mildmay, mildmay line, which is named after a hospital, i believe, the windrush line. >> the weaver line, which is named afterjackie >> the weaver line, which is named after jackie weaver, who went viral couple years went viral a couple of years ago. suffragette ago. the suffragette line and the line. and each line the liberty line. and each line obviously own colour. obviously has its own colour. uh, these for uh, do you like these names for these lines? they seem quite, um, progressive , leo. um, progressive, leo. >> we think they're progressive, but they spent £6 million but they they spent £6 million renaming these lines and like, bearin renaming these lines and like, bear in mind, you know, tfl has got this enormous black hole in its it's why have its budget. it's like, why have they money? they could they got spare money? they could have asked the public. have just asked the public. >> public built the lines >> the public built the lines for no, no no, no. the for no, no, no, no no, no. the lines . that's how cost lines. that's how much it cost to maintain you. could you couldn't. you get seat. to maintain you. could you couyout. you get seat. to maintain you. could you couyout. yobuild get seat. to maintain you. could you couyout. yobuild gilike seat. to maintain you. could you couyout. yobuild gilike a, at. >> you can build a like a, a tube carriage for 6 million. i could have renamed them for tennen >> we could. yeah. we could have doneit >> we could. yeah. we could have done it for could it just

done it for free. could it just ask public and they'd be ask the public and they'd be like, call chubby tube like, call it chubby tube face and . how did they spend 6 and saw. how did they spend 6 million? >> em- em— e how would you even >> rename it. how would you even do like brewster's do that? it's like brewster's millions. you millions. i don't know how you would do it. >> yeah, basically you've got >> so yeah, basically you've got to an expensive branding agency. >> they've got to do it. six month consultation, speaking to users lines and then and users of the lines and then and also they talk about you know, london. there's mention of london. there's no mention of any cockney in there . any sort of cockney in there. they they should have a, they should they should have a, you and line you know a jack and danny line or something that . or something like that. >> we've >> no, no. traditionally we've got of royalty. so where's got lots of royalty. so where's the line ? where's the the harry line? where's the meghan line? there meghan markle line? yeah, there should meghan markle line. should be meghan markle line. that's like should be meghan markle line. tichas like should be meghan markle line. tichas dave like should be meghan markle line. tichas dave line. like a chas and dave line. >> about that? like don't >> what about that? like i don't understand why they haven't. that's incredible. like honestly a twitter would sorted a twitter poll would have sorted that like like that wouldn't it. like like 6 million for this. >> i think you start by telling the budget the consultants what the budget is. how that is. i think that's how that works. okay >> but then okay, so the suffragette and then the, >> but then okay, so the suffwhat's and then the, >> but then okay, so the suffwhat's the and then the, >> but then okay, so the suffwhat's the otherthen the, >> but then okay, so the suffwhat's the other one?the, >> but then okay, so the suffwhat's the other one? the uh, what's the other one? the uh, what's the other one? the uh, lioness that's uh, lioness line. well, that's to the football team, to do with the football team, isn't to do with the football team, isn'something to do with >> something to do with football. i've got football. you know, i've got sport blindness. >> yes >> you do? yes yes. >> but yeah, i guess we're all

very the lionesses, very happy about the lionesses, aren't done then. no aren't we? well done then. no david beckham line. no there should suppose. david beckham line. no there shobut suppose. david beckham line. no there sho but the suppose. david beckham line. no there sho but the lioness|ppose. david beckham line. no there sho but the lioness line ;e. david beckham line. no there sho but the lioness line that's >> but the lioness line that's a gendered word. >> actress. so surely >> it's like actress. so surely that's unwoke. that's going to be unwoke. that's criminal that's going to be a criminal offence in about three weeks. you lioness? yeah. i think you see, lioness? yeah. i think there probably will be. >> you can never anticipate how crazy going to be. crazy it's going to be. uh, let's on to a question . let's move on now to a question. uh, gavin. >> oh, andrew. >> oh, andrew. >> hi. >> hi. >> my question is, i take my glasses . off surely varne fuji glasses. off surely varne fuji can spend their time more practically . than sitting practically. than sitting through the climate change courses? >> yeah, it's an interesting one.the >> yeah, it's an interesting one. the royal navy is considering introducing compulsory change compulsory climate change courses all sailors , with courses for all sailors, with suggestions that the online classes focus impact classes will focus on the impact of climate change on defence. and this has come from a leaked document. a document. do you think it's a waste money, waste of money, leo? >> it's a complete waste of >> oh, it's a complete waste of money. i mean, especially right >> oh, it's a complete waste of mon when nean, especially right >> oh, it's a complete waste of monwhen putin'sspecially right >> oh, it's a complete waste of monwhen putin's literally right now when putin's literally invading some invading europe. there's some more to deal more pressing concerns to deal with oh, what's with than like, oh, what's a carbon we we carbon footprint? we need, we

need to soft play need let's go to the soft play area have a, a, you area and have a, have a, you know, carbon footprint know, that carbon footprint shrinking anyway because there's know, that carbon footprint shrinkand anyway because there's know, that carbon footprint shrinkand fewery because there's know, that carbon footprint shrinkand fewer of ecause there's know, that carbon footprint shrinkand fewer of theme there's fewer and fewer of them. >> they should have it into >> they should have put it into the budget. the recruitment budget. >> i tanks released >> i mean tanks released quite a lot believe. they lot of carbon i believe. so they should volvos or should use like volvos or something instead shouldn't they. >> electric tanks. yeah. >> electric tanks. yeah. >> just plenty of >> just are there plenty of charging points. >> just are there plenty of chayeah points. there are >> yeah i think there are charging points. >> yeah i think there are cha excellent. :s. >> yeah i think there are cha excellent. just of >> excellent. just a couple of teslas. >> excellent. just a couple of tes yeah, few armoured >> excellent. just a couple of tesyeah, few armoured teslas here. >> and there. >> and there. >> the army is actually the >> but the army is actually the most carbon friendly, climate friendly the entire friendly part of the entire pubuc friendly part of the entire public sector because when they shoot people, they reduce their carbon footprint to zero. >> that is a good point. >> that is a good point. >> we need more wars and that's why they've been do why they've been set up to do that. >> okay. very interesting. let's get another question now. this one's joanna? >> hi, joanna. hello. >> hi, joanna. hi. hello. >> hi, joanna. hi. hello. >> evening . >> hi, joanna. hi. hello. >> evening. hi. >> good evening. hi. >> good evening. hi. >> should hotel hallways be >> um, should hotel hallways be widened to accommodate fat people? if you can say that. >> well, no. okay. no you're perfectly allowed to say that, joanna. >> but do you think it's a reasonable request to extend the corridors ? corridors? >> think if it >> well, i think if it encroaches the square encroaches onto the square metres rooms, they're metres in the rooms, they're still to complain anyway,

still going to complain anyway, aren't still going to complain anyway, areiwell, that's good >> well, that's a very good point you widen the point. you can't widen the buildings and, know, new buildings and, you know, new buildings and, you know, new buildings . buildings. >> it's a real thing that's happened. >> so this is apparently this lifestyle travel guru jalen cheneyi lifestyle travel guru jalen cheney i don't know if i'm pronouncing that right. >> jalen cheney has said her aim is to make travel industry is to make the travel industry more inclusive. more accepting, more inclusive. and she thinks, is and part of this, she thinks, is that plus size holiday goers, as she puts it, should have. and there is. whoa oh, god. there she is. whoa oh, god. yeah, she's very attractive , but yeah, she's very attractive, but there's no reason to do that. she's stunning. >> she is stunning by her leo. >> she is stunning by her leo. >> she is she is. >> she is stunning by her leo. >> she is she is . man. she could >> she is she is. man. she could be described in the guardian as stunning and brave. >> that is. that is leo. >> you should not be objectifying individuals. she's making a point i didn't making a point that i didn't object to fire. >> she made herself an >> she. she made herself an object . she made herself an object. she made herself an immovable object . immovable object. >> cressida, this is fat shaming . so i'm going to come to you for balance . for balance. >> i'm not going to get any balance for me as somebody that lives on a narrow boat, she can jog i lives on a narrow boat, she can jog i mean, problem is jog on. i mean, the problem is she can't jog on. >> okay.

>> okay. >> sorry, sorry. how insensitive . i think it's . yeah. no, i think it's absolutely mad. i think fat activism is on its way out because a lot of them are losing their lives very they get their lives very early. they get to 40 and keel over. sadly no, but say there's absolutely but they say there's absolutely no problems related to no health problems related to obesity . obesity. >> no whatsoever. >> no whatsoever. >> they until they're 40 >> no whatsoever. >> “then until they're 40 >> no whatsoever. >> “then they until they're 40 >> no whatsoever. >> “then they don't they're 40 >> no whatsoever. >> “then they don't say('re 40 >> no whatsoever. >> “then they don't say ite 40 and then they don't say it anymore. i mean, it's unfortunately what happens when the doctor. >> but the doctor said me >> but the doctor said to me once, you lose a bit of once, you need to lose a bit of weight, should i have said, you're shaming doctor? you're fat shaming me, doctor? should the man? should i have sued the man? >> possibly. yeah. >> possibly. yeah. >> what a lot of >> i mean, that's what a lot of people would do. and they say, you know, fat, fat shaming doctors, doesn't doctors, uh, doesn't help, doesn't help obese people or whatever. like sophie whatever. and even like sophie hagan, who's a fat hagan, who's a, who's a fat activist. when fat activist. and when i say fat activist, i mean fat activist, i mean a really fat activist. she, called cancer activist. she, uh, called cancer research like this , directed research like this, directed this tirade of abuse at cancer research naughty word, research a very naughty word, a word can't on this show. word we can't use on this show. yeah. uh , you know, yeah. and, uh, you know, basically because the, the, the spoke some scientific truth, which obese, which is if you're obese, you're, risk of you're, you're at more risk of cancer research, put up posters on the saying, you know, on the tube saying, you know, that at risk of cancer

that you are at risk of cancer if you you are if you are if you if you are if you are morbidly obese. >> they correct. >> and they were correct. yeah and attacked and to be attacked and brutalised fat activist is brutalised by a fat activist is just, know, it's really just, you know, it's really grim, yeah. yeah any grim, i think. yeah. yeah any thoughts on that one? grim, i think. yeah. yeah any tho i'mts on that one? grim, i think. yeah. yeah any tho i'm laughing one? grim, i think. yeah. yeah any tho i'm laughing onbeing >> i'm laughing at being attacked activist. attacked by a fat activist. sorry thoughts . i just sorry no. no thoughts. i just have no sympathy for this particular cause. i think it's really harmful . yeah, absolutely. >> okay, well, let's get another question we're >> okay, well, let's get another que going we're >> okay, well, let's get another que going to we're >> okay, well, let's get another que going to narrow we're >> okay, well, let's get another que going to narrow hotelre're >> okay, well, let's get another que going to narrow hotel or'e not going to narrow hotel or widen hallways . widen hotel hallways. >> we should narrow them . yeah, >> we should narrow them. yeah, that would be a good incentive. >> turnstile isn't it? >> turnstile isn't it? >> yeah, that would be a good incentive. >> at least the one to the canteen. yeah. >> just . leo is on a roll. >> just. leo is on a roll. » .— >> just. leo is on a roll. >> i know this is going to get cupped >> i know this is going to get clipped by our enemies. i don't care. >> let's get a question. >> let's get a question. >> if i'm on a roll, i hope a fat activist doesn't eat me. >> okay, caroline , is tomb >> okay, caroline, is tomb raider racist ? it's >> okay, caroline, is tomb raider racist? it's tomb raider racist, right ? so raider racist? it's tomb raider racist, right? so this is that game with lara croft. was that her name? yep. yeah uh, and it was an old game. and they've remastered the games very close

to the original game, but they've now had to slap it with a trigger warning because they say there are racist say that there are racist stereotypes. the stereotypes. this is from the 1990s, way . it's very 1990s, by the way. it's very funny to me when these things from, like yesterday are basically problematised um, and basically problematised. um, and apparently who apparently there are tribes who are played are cannibals. i never played this game. i was into sonic the hedgehog. um this and hedgehog. um but this is. and there's nothing with sonic there's nothing wrong with sonic there's nothing wrong with sonic the don't you can't the hedgehog. i don't you can't problematise you? problematise that, can you? i hope anyway, i think we've problematise that, can you? i hope clip.anyway, i think we've problematise that, can you? i hope clip.anywawe think we've problematise that, can you? i hope clip.anywawe got|k we've problematise that, can you? i hope clip.anywawe got|k clip'e got a clip. have we got a clip of the of the tomb raider ? of the of the tomb raider? >> yes. well, for me, fast in this day you make plenty good flesh . flesh. >> but you forget i might be quite hungry myself. famished actually . why did your ancestors actually. why did your ancestors flee from antarctica so suddenly? oh coma. >> coma . bad place. plenty >> coma. bad place. plenty flesh. but for the price . flesh. but for the price. >> okay. is that offensively ? >> okay. is that offensively? um, no. >> i think it's providing representation on this is, you know , for cannibals. know, for cannibals. >> yeah. you can't you can't make people happy .

make people happy. >> it's like if you put representation in the game, they're unhappy. if you if you if didn't have it, if it was if you didn't have it, if it was a was white, uh, papua a if it was a white, uh, papua guinean tribesman then they'd a if it was a white, uh, papua gu unhappyesman then they'd a if it was a white, uh, papua gu unhappy about| then they'd a if it was a white, uh, papua gu unhappy about thaten they'd a if it was a white, uh, papua gu unhappy about that .1they'd be unhappy about that. >> like, i don't think the games were to suggest any were trying to suggest any connection between cannibalism and i don't know, and black people. i don't know, i and black people. i don't know, l guy and black people. i don't know, i guy doesn't eat anything. >> if anybody should upset anything. >> if tombdy should upset anything. >> if tomb raider, ld upset anything. >> if tomb raider, it upset anything. >> if tomb raider, it shouldat about tomb raider, it should be the dinosaur community because, you she shoots t—rex you know, she she shoots a t—rex that's her. that's trying to attack her. there's in the history of there's never in the history of human humankind being an attack by on humans. by a t—rex on humans. >> no, there hasn't, which is. yeah decent creatures. brilliant. think brilliant. what do you think about cresta? thing about, um, cresta? the thing about, um, cresta? the thing about i've even seen, about this is i've even seen, um, lara croft problematise saying she's she's curvy. saying she's she's too curvy. she's too idealised. >> she's she's very idealised. yeah. >> she should look more like that activist saw that activist that we saw earlier. so you know, maybe something in between i. >> yeah . >> yeah. >> yeah. >> have enough for a banquet for those cannibals, wouldn't they ? those cannibals, wouldn't they? >> uh, yes. yes let's bring back lara croft as a fat activist. yeah, yeah. people used to get really upset about her that they didn't. >> they did. >> they did. >> she was promoting eating

disorders and body dysmorphia and on. and so on. >> they redesigned her >> i think they redesigned her to look a bit more frumpy. i think they the backflips think they did the backflips weren't impressive, weren't as impressive, but. right. but there was positive right. no but there was positive representations. that's the important okay, look , uh, important thing. okay, look, uh, now crystal dynamics have released this image of the trigger warning . uh oh. trigger warning. uh oh. apparently we don't have the image. image. image. we've lost the image. it's offensive. i'm sorry it's too offensive. i'm sorry about that. we did have it momentarily. we anymore . momentarily. we don't anymore. well, anyway, that's all we've got time for in this section, so please go anywhere .

for. me. welcome back to free speech nafion me. welcome back to free speech nation with me. andrew doyle, the country's leading literary society , is facing a crisis. society, is facing a crisis. fellows at the royal society of literature are in revolt against what they see as its high handed autocrat leadership. so to tell us more, i'm delighted to welcome prize winning author welcome the prize winning author and society fellow , and former royal society fellow, miranda seymour. thank you ,

miranda seymour. thank you, thank you. >> now you resigned from the royal society of literature in november, i believe. >> do you want to tell us why i, i would say that when i was made a fellow of the royal society of literature, which quite literature, which is quite different from the society of authors, which is for all writers, the society of writers, but the society of literature is something that you work towards. >> you get made a fellow only when you've written two books at a reckoned or more, that are meant to be really well thought of by other fellows . and then of by other fellows. and then they nominate you, and i think, like of other people. well, like lots of other people. well, like lots of other people. well, like i thought it like all fellows, i thought it was day of my life. was the proudest day of my life. i was absolutely thrilled. so to resign was very hard for me . and resign was very hard for me. and i resigned because i'd been feeling increasing that the society was not doing what it should in terms of defending people and standing up for writers and freedom of speech. and i went in november to the agm, which used to be held with a rather jolly party in the

summer , and has now been moved summer, and has now been moved to a very secretive, difficult, inaccessible location. in the middle of november. not not a fun thing to do . so hardly fun thing to do. so hardly anybody there , which i sort of anybody there, which i sort of felt was what they wanted . and felt was what they wanted. and really they were asked by, um, people from the audience, a very small audience who could defend the fact that the royal society of literature had failed . they of literature had failed. they were the only society, i think , were the only society, i think, which failed to write a letter of support for salman rushdie. after that appalling knife attack on him . attack on him. >> this is so important, isn't it, because we didn't realise until last week when dame marina warner, of warner, a former president of the society , came out and said the society, came out and said no, there's been infighting . no, there's been infighting. they'd the leadership they'd said that the leadership of the society had said, we won't put out a statement to defend salman rushdie's right to free because would free speech because that would be would be controversial. it would cause offence. incredible of that. >> well, i wrote down something which is pretty amazing because this is what the royal society of literature has said in the past. we do not condone violence

towards authors . we believe that towards authors. we believe that authors should be free of harm when expressing their views and that's practically their motto. it ought to be up there on their website. we stand for the right of writers , us to express their of writers, us to express their views . views. >> and yet the current president this week on the guardian wrote an article saying we don't get involved political disputes. involved in political disputes. and of course, salman rushdie pointed this is pointed out, you know, this is something be. and let something you should be. and let me just give you a lot of backtracking going on lot. backtracking going on a lot. well, good. but there well, good. but then there was also kate clanchy, also the case of kate clanchy, the poet who treated the poet who was treated appallingly on social media, accused of all of things . accused of all sorts of things. that not true that was absolutely not true racism, story, and no racism, a horrible story, and no defence from the royal society. they threw her under the bus and even more surprisingly, the director . director. >> the current director had actually been to two of these schools where kate clanchy worked with children. most of us would great difficulty would have great difficulty with from the least privileged parts of the world, and she was beloved by her pupils. molly rosenberg went along to two of

those classes and then apparently directed that the royal society of literature should not defend her, and she resigned. how could she not? >> i find that incredible. and of course, in that case, as you say, her pupils, who were the subject of the book she had written, thought it was written, they thought it was wonderful no wonderful that they had no problem the all. it problem with the book at all. it was people. it was almost was other people. it was almost as, royal society of as, say, the royal society of literature had sided against her. >> that's what >> and that's what feels so awful to me both and awful to me about both that and salman awful to me about both that and salwhy is this, do you think, >> why is this, do you think, why are many people who are why are so many people who are meant side with meant to side with authors that's d'etre? why that's their raison d'etre? why are they failing to do this? can you you have do you have any you can you have do you have any idea? seems to have begun out idea? it seems to have begun out of that they could be of a fear that they could be censored themselves, which is . censored themselves, which is. a very poor spirit. >> i mean, tom stoppard said, i think in december that if anything is the thing that writers should stand for, it's freedom of expression. the royal society of literature called such a grand name , should, above

such a grand name, should, above all these societies , defend all these societies, defend writers in their right to say anything. so i mean, if we'd beenin anything. so i mean, if we'd been in the time of, i'd know bunyan or blake or anybody like that. jonathan swift, the royal society of literature now would be saying, no, we can't possibly say anything . say anything. >> this the idea that >> but i find this the idea that knife wielding maniacs need to be protected from offence doesn't make any sense to me, but is it the case that we have, as a culture, as a society, been failing on this issue? perhaps since the original fatwa against salman in 1989, where salman rushdie in 1989, where instead a robust collected instead of a robust collected view , you know, saying, we will view, you know, saying, we will not stand for this, we will not have a foreign power threaten one writers. one of our greatest writers. instead of that, we had endless debates on television about whether it himself debates on television about viifelhei’ it himself debates on television about vlif forer it himself debates on television about vlif for let's it himself debates on television about vlif for let's not it himself debates on television about vlif for let's not forget himself , if for let's not forget writing yeah, and what writing a book. yeah, and what can we do about this? it's quite extraordinary. >> i wonder how many people i believe the ayatollah didn't ever actually even read the book. >> of course not. >> no, no, i actually did read it and find it very difficult to see what what the damage was,

really. anyway, i'll take really. but anyway, i'll take that as accepted. >> but it's easy to be offended by something if you don't bother reading it, i suppose. very easy indeed. >> but to go back the point >> but to go back to the point that here for which is that that i'm here for which is that i believe, and that's why i resigned society resigned the royal society of literature duty literature has above all, a duty to defend writers, what to defend writers, to say what they want to say. and if they can't that , that they can't do that, that they shouldn't exist. >> do you think following >> do you think that following the criticism we've seen this >> do you think that following the crfrom n we've seen this >> do you think that following the crfrom various seen this >> do you think that following the crfrom various sources, s >> do you think that following the crfrom various sources, that week from various sources, that the royal society of literature at this point might reflect, you know, they might to what know, they might listen to what you're tonight ? you're saying tonight? hopefully. and they hopefully. i hope so. and they might change their might they might change their direction . direction on this. >> they i mean, they've been going for 200 years. walter scott it. and most scott started it. and for most of that time they've done a wonderful job and they've been very well regarded, supported people . it's very recent. i people. it's very recent. i think it's a product of i know , think it's a product of i know, cancel culture or a very conscientious culture, whatever we call it, that they are just running scared and i think what needs to happen is at the

moment, actually, they've become so opaque themselves that to approach the board of three who run it, you have to post a pubuc run it, you have to post a public note on their website and you will get an answer after eight weeks. it's quite a small . society. >> yes. well, i hope they do listen to what you've got to say. and before you go, miranda, can you just tell us about the kind of books that you write and the work you've done? the kind of work you've done? >> well, it's probably why i feel strongly about this. my feel so strongly about this. my passion been finding passion in life has been finding women been neglected or women who have been neglected or undervalued or misrepresented and writing about them. so one was about a wonderful racing driver who was dissed as a collaborator later, and actually, she hadn't collaborated at all. one was byron's wife, who was incredibly annoying , but also wonderful and annoying, but also wonderful and brave and courageous. and it's sort of fun to bring them back into prominence and get them looked at again. yes, i love doing that. >> absolutely. and that, of course, is the power of the written word, which is something that the royal societies appear

to as well. to be forgetting as well. hopefully can done to be forgetting as well. hopefithis can done to be forgetting as well. hopefithis now, can done to be forgetting as well. hopefithis now, and can done to be forgetting as well. hopefithis now, and hopefullyone about this now, and hopefully they they backtrack they will. they will backtrack a little bit. let's so. little bit. let's hope so. yeah well miranda seymour, little bit. let's hope so. yeah well you miranda seymour, little bit. let's hope so. yeah well you ever nda seymour, little bit. let's hope so. yeah well you ever nda seynforr, thank you ever so much for joining today. really, joining me today. really, really appreciate it. >> been an honour, andrew. >> it's been an honour, andrew. thank you. >> now it is . it is absolutely >> now it is. it is absolutely worth you checking out the guardian article by bernardine evaristo which who is the current president of the royal society of literature. and she effectively wrote that, effectively wrote to say that, of course, she believes in free speech. course the royal speech. of course the royal society this principle, society defends this principle, but that they just don't want to get involved seem to be get involved or seem to be politically partisan. that seems to issue here. and of to be the issue here. and of course, when it comes salman course, when it comes to salman rushdie, we all saw what happened with horrific happened with that horrific knife new york at knife attack in new york at the event. as says, event. and as miranda says, first is you have first port of call is you have to stand up say, no, this is to stand up and say, no, this is not acceptable. i happen to have read satanic i've read the satanic verses. i've read the satanic verses. i've read most of salman rushdie's read the satanic verses. i've read rit's: of salman rushdie's read the satanic verses. i've read rit's ayf salman rushdie's read the satanic verses. i've read rit's a brilliant] rushdie's read the satanic verses. i've read rit's a brilliant piece die's read the satanic verses. i've read rit's a brilliant piece ofe's work. it's a brilliant piece of work. it's a brilliant piece of work. it's a brilliant piece of work. i think the first thing that do is be that we should all do is be promoting that book and promoting that book and promoting work and standing promoting that book and

prohim.1g work and standing promoting that book and prohim. i] work and standing promoting that book and prohim. i find work and standing promoting that book and prohim. i find itork and standing promoting that book and prohim. i find it genuinelyanding by him. i find it genuinely disturbing people disturbing that so many people who better are who should know better are failing do so. but we're failing to do so. but we're seeing this absolutely across the work the board saying that the work is it caused is offensive and that it caused offence, and therefore he effectively deserve effectively didn't deserve to have police protection, didn't deserve money have police protection, didn't deserve after money have police protection, didn't deserve after him. money have police protection, didn't deserve after him. i money have police protection, didn't deserve after him. i find money have police protection, didn't deserve after him. i find this oney looking after him. i find this absolutely and absolutely abhorrent. and hopefully can do something hopefully we can do something about that's rant about it. anyway, that's my rant over. about it. anyway, that's my rant over . is the about it. anyway, that's my rant over. is the end of the over. that is the end of the first hour here on free speech anywhere, anywhere. first hour here on free speech anywhere, art0/here. first hour here on free speech anywhere, arto come between now plenty more to come between now and i'll seeing you and 9:00. i'll be seeing you shortly . shortly. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar , sponsors of weather on . solar, sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hello, i'm marco petagna. here's your latest weather update from the met office. we'll hold on to rather mixed conditions weather wise across the uk during the week ahead. conditions weather wise across the of( during the week ahead. conditions weather wise across the of us jring the week ahead. conditions weather wise across the of us seeingie week ahead. conditions weather wise across the of us seeing some k ahead. conditions weather wise across the of us seeing some k ah ati all of us seeing some rain at times and turning colder from the later on. we've the north later on. we've got a small ridge of high pressure moving the tonight moving in from the west tonight quietening weather down, but quietening the weather down, but nofice notice weather fronts gathering out north—west and

out towards the north—west and they'll further unsettled out towards the north—west and they'll duringrther unsettled out towards the north—west and they'll during ther unsettled out towards the north—west and they'll during ther unsettle days weather during the next few days . so as into the evening . so as we go into the evening and the overnight and during the overnight period, much fine . we'll much of the uk set fine. we'll see some clear spells allowing much of the uk set fine. we'll see miste clear spells allowing much of the uk set fine. we'll see mist and ar spells allowing much of the uk set fine. we'll see mist and fog)ells allowing much of the uk set fine. we'll see mist and fog patchesowing much of the uk set fine. we'll see mist and fog patches to ng few mist and fog patches to form, particularly wales form, particularly across wales and england. and the south—west of england. but worked but outbreaks of rain worked their the north—west their way in for the north—west across northern across scotland and northern ireland, england by the morning north of england by the morning with blustery showers towards the north—west. mild the north—west. later a mild night frost problems night so no frost problems tonight. and we go into tonight. and as we go into monday, band monday, that band of rain continues journey south continues its journey south eastwards becoming and eastwards, becoming light and patchy the patchy as it reaches the south—east during course of south—east during the course of the and then fizzling the morning and then fizzling out to give brighter out to give much brighter weather heading weather across the uk heading into some showers weather across the uk heading intotowards some showers weather across the uk heading intotowards the some showers weather across the uk heading intotowards the north—west owers weather across the uk heading intotowards the north—west quite out towards the north—west quite blustery here with further rain moving the west of moving in across the west of scotland in the day. it's scotland later in the day. it's a pretty mild day once again. temperatures double temperatures generally in double figures in the figures, peaking at ten in the north near 13 or 14 degrees north and near 13 or 14 degrees down towards the south—east. as for tuesday, we'll abandoned wet and windy weather will move its way eastwards across many way south eastwards across many northern uk towards northern parts of the uk towards the south and east. it stays mostly with bright mostly fine, with a few bright spells staying spells at times and staying quite mild again for the quite mild once again for the time with temperatures

time of year, with temperatures into low teens in a into the low teens celsius in a few but stays pretty few spots, but stays pretty unsettled into unsettled as we go into wednesday . with wednesday and thursday. with further around and further wet weather around and turning colder the north turning colder from the north later too. that warm feeling later on too. that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers . inside from boxt boilers. sponsor of weather on gb news

>> there's plenty more still to come on free speech nation this week, but let's get a news update first from ray allison . update first from ray allison. >> many thanks. our top stories tonight. avon and somerset police have referred themselves to the independent police watchdog after arresting a 42 year old woman on suspicion of murder following the deaths of three children in bristol. officers attended a concern for

welfare. call in blaise walk in sea mills this afternoon. they say the suspect is currently in police custody at a hospital. one local woman says the family had two boys, aged around eight and six months, and a girl aged around four. the force said it was contacting the iopc due to pnor was contacting the iopc due to prior police contact . sukh keir prior police contact. sukh keir starmer has called for a permanent ceasefire in gaza dunng permanent ceasefire in gaza during a speech at the scottish labour conference it's a change to his previous stance of a pause in the fighting , saying pause in the fighting, saying instead the war must stop now. but he says the ceasefire can't be one sided. he's calling on hamas to release all of its remaining hostages. he also said a two state solution must be back on the table , an end to the fighting. >> not just now and not just for a pause , but permanently. a pause, but permanently. a ceasefire that lasts . ceasefire that lasts. conference. that is what must happen now. the fighting must

stop now . now well . russian stop now. now well. russian authorities have been accused of doing everything they can to avoid handing over alexei navalny's to his family navalny's body to his family yesterday , the 69 year old yesterday, the 69 year old mother of president putin's most vocal critic visited the remote penal colony where he died . penal colony where he died. >> she says she was told his body had been taken to a nearby morgue, but when she arrived, it was closed . meanwhile, in was closed. meanwhile, in london, tributes have been pounng london, tributes have been pouring in outside the russian embassy as people lay flowers and messages. navalny's spokespeople claim his death was orchestrated murder by putin, but that's been rejected by the kremlin . two people have been kremlin. two people have been charged by police and will appearin charged by police and will appear in court after a pro—palestine demonstration in central london yesterday, 134 year old lucia whittaker. debris has been charged with failing to remove a face covering the other

48 year old martin brady is accused of obstructing a police constable. it comes after tens of thousands of protesters marched through the irish, scottish and english capitals in major demonstrations against the war in gaza and finally the prince of wales has been attending the bafta film awards tonight. his first high profile royal engagement since his wife's operation . will liam, who wife's operation. will liam, who is president of the arts charity, stop to take selfies with members of the public as he made his way down red made his way down the red carpet, oppenheimer has won baftas best film , best baftas for best film, best director, actor and best director, best actor and best supporting actor whilst emma stone has won best actress for her role in poor things. meanwhile, the zone of interest has won outstanding british film . for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts. now back to free speech nation.

welcome back to the second hour of free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. >> we have a wonderful studio audience here. so let's get some more questions from our more questions from them. our first osheen. hi first question from osheen. hi osheen . hello, andrew. osheen. hello, andrew. >> my question is, um, should >> so my question is, um, should a 90 year old charity volunteer be expected to be aware of personal pronouns? >> yeah, this is this was >> yeah, this is a this was a big this week. so the big story this week. so the national multiple sclerosis society and i should say that is the american, uh, charity. uh has defended its fired this 90 year old volunteer. she's been working with the, with the charity for 60 years. she had an email saying can you please add your pronouns to your your email signature? and she replied saying, i don't really understand what that means. i don't pronouns are . don't know what pronouns are. her fran etcoff and her name is fran etcoff and volunteering for 60 years, and they've said that, you know, she doesn't satisfy our diversity

and inclusion criteria . and inclusion criteria. >> it's classic, classic diversity and inclusion. >> they're like, uh, sorry, this is a diverse organisation and we're inclusive. so you have to get out. >> yeah. you know , i mean that's >> yeah. you know, i mean that's not being inclusive. that's literally throwing a 90 year old woman out in the street . woman out in the street. >> and they've actually doubled down on they've down on this. they've had a backlash. that, backlash. but they've said that, you know, they've they've dealt with correct way. with this in the correct way. they haven't have they. >> not. mean, >> absolutely not. i mean, if she's really her i'm so she's really in her 90s, i'm so impressed she's sending impressed that she's sending emails done. yeah sorry. emails. well done. yeah sorry. that's age. well so well, that's my age. well so well, they actually said in their statement as an organisation, we are in a continued conversation about ensuring that our diversity, equity and inclusion policies evolve in service of our mission and will reach out to fran in service of this goal. >> well done. that's the least you can do. isn't it incredible. and you know this obviously national multiple sclerosis society, an important society, that's an important charity. important charity. it's an important cause. they're just shooting themselves this themselves in the foot over this stuff. if you're saying stuff. and also if you're saying to someone you have to declare your well, of us

your pronouns, well, 99% of us don't a thing called don't believe in a thing called gender may gender identity. yeah. you may as people announce as well ask people to announce the their aura, and the colour of their aura, and it's so removed. >> so removed from the sort >> it's so removed from the sort of actual core purpose of the multiple sclerosis society because those people who are trans gender get multiple sclerosis . and people who reject sclerosis. and people who reject the whole gender identity nonsense get multiple sclerosis . nonsense get multiple sclerosis. >> so they shouldn't be bringing this into, you know, making this a core part part of the a core part of their part of the thing. say like, oh, thing. and they say like, oh, it's a conversation. we're keen to have a conversation. no they're never keen they're not, they're never keen to conversation. their to have a conversation. their keen out dissent or keen to stamp out any dissent or anybody who even asks a question about like fran did. about it, like, like fran did. and just to they want and they just want to they want to their rigid , to enforce their rigid, intolerant, inflexible view on everybody. >> absolutely. it really is shocking stuff. okay. we're going to move on to a question from sue. hi, sue. >> hello, andrew. um, is pontins racist pontins? >> so this is, you know, pontins, the holiday camp operator. so the ehrc has said

that they committed flagrant breaches of the equality act because they discriminated. they drew up basically pontins drew up a list of what they called undesirable irish surnames arms. i do hope that, um . i do hope i do hope that, um. i do hope that doyle wasn't on there. um but apparently they'd also asked their call centre staff to listen for irish accents and then and then decline or cancel then and then decline or cancel the bookings . then and then decline or cancel the bookings. i mean, it's a bit dodgy, isn't it? this one. >> unbelievable . i mean, can you >> unbelievable. i mean, can you imagine if it was a different ethnic group? i don't think that would go down. well. it's not going down very well anyway. >> it's definitely not going down. >> no. absolutely outrageous. >> no. absolutely outrageous. >> to fair, >> no. although to be fair, a lot family are drunk. so lot of my family are drunk. so i mean, fair enough. maybe. mean, it's fair enough. maybe. >> what pontins don't you want to alcohol if you're, if to sell alcohol if you're, if you're watching. >> mean that. and >> mum, i didn't mean that. and the don't mean the audience. no, i don't mean anything. so don't get anything. i say so don't get upset about it. >> i think pontins made >> no, i think pontins are made a huge mistake. >> you want the drunks, you want the going the people who are going to spend behind. spend the money behind.

>> of course you do. >> of course you do. >> absolutely. bad news >> absolutely. this is bad news for everyone. >> absolutely. this is bad news for butyone. >> absolutely. this is bad news for but lone. >> absolutely. this is bad news for but i mean. they would >> but i mean. but they would say proportionately they say that proportionately they have people with have problems with people with surnames kind. is that surnames of this kind. is that a fair defence? surnames of this kind. is that a fairyeah.|ce? they're targeting, >> yeah. no, they're targeting, uh, you uh, irish travellers. and, you know, be might be know, it might be it might be racist. be racist. it might be discriminatory target them. discriminatory to target them. is inaccurate? is it, is it is it inaccurate? is it, you is it. you know, is it. >> knew you'd take this. i >> i knew you'd take this. i knew you'd defend them. >> take it from >> i'm gonna take it from an evidence point of point of evidence based point of point of view . uh, you know, point well, view. uh, you know, point well, ..1. all right, point 1% of the population is, uh , is, uh, irish population is, uh, is, uh, irish traveller or roma gypsy or whatever. yes, but 5% of the prison population is. so that suggests a huge overrepresent in, uh, in criminal activity. and. >> yeah, but you can't that's kind of like a collective punishment thing, isn't it? then you're just discriminating because behaviour of because of the behaviour of certain don't certain people, which i don't think . think it's fair. >> well, i mean , it's not fair. >> well, i mean, it's not fair. it's enough. >> i mean, you're saying that, but you don't don't but you don't you don't run a hotel. i mean, why don't you. >> why don't you open up your garden to travellers and, garden to irish travellers and, uh, why don't you? garden to irish travellers and, uh, it's why don't you? garden to irish travellers and, uh, it's not. why don't you? garden to irish travellers and, uh, it's not. it's/hy don't you? garden to irish travellers and, uh, it's not. it's easy )n't you? garden to irish travellers and, uh, it's not. it's easy tot you? garden to irish travellers and, uh, it's not. it's easy to be. u? >> it's not. it's easy to be. it's easy generous with

it's easy to be generous with somebody it's easy to be generous with sonwell,y it's easy to be generous with sonwell, we've heard both sides >> well, we've heard both sides of that argument. there so let's move joel. joel oh, move on now to joel. joel oh, hi, oh, john. hi, joel. oh, john. >> john is drugging juice milk from transgender women. i do food for infants. >> yeah . so this is pretty dodgy >> yeah. so this is pretty dodgy . so, yeah. drug induced milk from transgender women. in other words, people who are born male in other words, not milk. uh well, this nhs trust is basically saying this is as good as a mother's, uh, breast milk. this is a leaked letter. it came from the medical doctor, a director of a university hospital, sussex nhs foundation trust , and it describes both as trust, and it describes both as human milk. it says that they are ideal food for infants. both the sort of fabricated milk and now there was also an academic study where they were talking about how we shouldn't be concerned feeding babies. concerned about feeding babies. this form fabricated this um, this form of fabricated , uh, hormone ingested milk because they said even if it causes medical problems to the baby , uh, that shouldn't be the baby, uh, that shouldn't be the priority when it comes to people's trans identity. i'm not joking . so. and that, by the

joking. so. and that, by the way, is not the trust that's another academic paper. but what i'm there is, um, i'm saying is that there is, um, a emerging here where a trend emerging here where actually child actually the health of the child is not prioritised over the, uh , is not prioritised over the, uh, isuppose is not prioritised over the, uh, i suppose the mental health of the trans identifying individual in question . this is dodgy as in question. this is dodgy as hell . hell. >> yeah, absolutely. yet another milk that isn't milk. um no, it's. you're absolutely right . it's. you're absolutely right. if the paper was saying there are some arguments for it in terms of bonding or just anything, that was child focussed, i might listen. but as you say, it's got nothing to do with the child and everything to do with the trans mother. it's just unbelievable that that that a parent would not put the baby first. i mean, isn't that. >> yeah, that is step one parenting. i think that's pretty scary stuff. leo, do you have any on this one? any thoughts on this one? >> yeah, i think this >> yeah, i think like this is going the next esoteric going to be the next esoteric hipster milk. going to be the next esoteric hipster milk . you they hipster milk. you know, they moved cow and then moved on from cow milk and then there's almond milk, oat milk. now it's going to be, uh, can i have a latte with with transgender mother milk, please?

i mean, that's going to be the i mean, i actually think in hackney. >> i think that's probably right. i think i can absolutely believe that. >> i'd rather hipsters drank it than than babies. it just seems, >> i'd rather hipsters drank it tha|like|n babies. it just seems, >> i'd rather hipsters drank it tha|like whatiies. it just seems, >> i'd rather hipsters drank it tha|like whatiies. it justwhen s, uh, like what is wrong? when is the asteroid going to just wipe out civilisation? out human civilisation? this is disgusting. you force out human civilisation? this is dibaby ing. you force out human civilisation? this is dibaby t0|. you force out human civilisation? this is dibaby to suck you force out human civilisation? this is dibaby to suck on you force out human civilisation? this is dibaby to suck on the you force out human civilisation? this is dibaby to suck on the hairyforce a baby to suck on the hairy chest somebody who's born chest of somebody who's born male to get some? >> it's not even a debate, is it? it's not even a debate. >> and you can get formula milk. so this is this is just somebody , you going through, like , you know, going through, like using as a prop in using the baby as a prop in their own, uh, own sort of their own, uh, their own sort of expressive weirdness . expressive weirdness. >> i just i just find this. yeah. please jesus. come. yeah. come now. come back. we need you. >> bring. bring the asteroid. absolutely. i feel like that every on this you every week on this show, you know, with not because know, with it. not because i hate show, but because of hate the show, but because of all stuff we cover. you just all the stuff we cover. you just think some point, armageddon think at some point, armageddon feels a sweet relief. uh, feels like a sweet relief. uh, let's a question now from, let's go to a question now from, um , from rob. hi, rob . hi, andrew. >> john lewis needs to review its internal magazine . its internal magazine. >> yeah, i've seen john lewis,

uh, trending all week about this. so they've been accused of, um, being contemptuously dismissive. dismissive of staff. they've launched an in—house magazine offering tips from mermaids , which is a very mermaids, which is a very controversial , uh, trans controversial, uh, trans children's charity. uh, that's what they call themselves. and they publish this. so john lewis group published this internal magazine called identity, which was supposed to coincide with the beginning of lgbtq batus plus history month. and the articles were giving advice to parents on chest binders . articles were giving advice to parents on chest binders. uh, and there's a calendar with pansexual and pan romantic visibility. and, like , what's visibility. and, like, what's going on, leo? >> yeah . >> yeah. >> yeah. >> please explain this to me. why why do we get this from john lewis? >> yeah, this seems weird. >> yeah, this seems weird. >> this is a magazine that went out to all staff, all 70,000 staff to sort of celebrate whatever month it is. it's always a month. and, uh, yeah , always a month. and, uh, yeah, it basically says it's got this advice, you know, how to to advice, you know, how to how to how to bind your child, how to chest bind your child, which a very dispute kid which is a very dispute kid thing. >> really

t“ thing. >> really for them. >> it's really bad for them. it's. it's like it's like it's. yeah. it's like it's like something that, you know, tribespeople something that, you know, tribespe know, the ones who had >> you know, the ones who had the head to make the planks on their head to make their head a funny shape. it's their head a funny shape. it's the same kind of the same. it's the same kind of kind thing. it's just kind of thing. it's just we've got a new ideology, we've got a new religion, new child sacrifices have to made. new religion, new child sacrso.as have to made. new religion, new child sacrso. so have to made. new religion, new child sacrso. so yeah,ave to made. new religion, new child sacrso. so yeah, they» made. new religion, new child sacrso. so yeah, they havenade. new religion, new child sacrso. so yeah, they have that. uh, so. so yeah, they have that and all these, uh, all and they have all these, uh, all the, all the trans staff, you know, this is, you know, know, saying this is, you know, this identity. this is my identity. >> see also. is >> see also. mermaids is currently by >> see also. mermaids is currcharity by >> see also. mermaids is currcharity commission. by the charity commission. you know, forums, the charity commission. you know, forums. forums, the charity commission. you know, forums. they forums, the charity commission. you know, forums. they were jms, the charity commission. you know, forums. they were caught, online forums. they were caught, uh, chest uh, giving advice on chest binders underage individuals binders to underage individuals without parents consent. you know , this is what being know, this is what they're being investigated for why earth investigated for. why on earth would lewis be endorsing would john lewis be endorsing this kind nonsense? and this kind of nonsense? and stonewall well? this kind of nonsense? and sto stonewallwell? this kind of nonsense? and sto stonewall is, l? know, now >> stonewall is, you know, now a contentious organisation . they contentious organisation. they run of mafia racket run this sort of mafia racket where if you if you give them money, you can put the stonewall badge on your and you get more diversity points, which means you can funding from you can get esg funding from blackrock and vanguard and all the of yeah, i mean, the rest of it. so yeah, i mean, the rest of it. so yeah, i mean, the , uh, the rest of it. so yeah, i mean, the , uh, the the whole thing is, uh, the whole thing's pretty, pretty the whole thing is, uh, the whole yeah.'s pretty, pretty the whole thing is, uh, the wholeyeah.'s pr i mean, stonewall week >> i mean, stonewall this week are that. this is

are posting about that. this is are posting about that. this is a national aromantic week. yeah. okay. that's people who don't particularly feel any romantic attachment to other people. if any of those people are watching, want to watching, i just want you to know oppressed, okay? know you're not oppressed, okay? just deal with it. um right. i think fact that they've got think the fact that they've got to shows how to john lewis really shows how powerful these people are. >> because john lewis, i mean, it's your nan's favourite brand, isn't it? >> e anymore. >> well not anymore. >> well not anymore. >> anymore, but it's >> well not anymore, but it's not sort of trendy not a sort of trendy woke product. know, lewis is. >> no, it's fallen is.— >> no, it's fallen . is. >> no, it's fallen . and i can't >> no, it's fallen. and i can't go to waitrose anymore because it's the same there you it's the same group. there you go. terrible. i'll have it's the same group. there you go go terrible. i'll have it's the same group. there you go go to terrible. i'll have it's the same group. there you go go to lidl. terrible. i'll have it's the same group. there you go go to lidl. i'mble. i'll have it's the same group. there you go go to lidl. i'm gonna. have it's the same group. there you go go to lidl. i'm gonna havee it's the same group. there you go go to lidl. i'm gonna have to to go to lidl. i'm gonna have to slum well welcome, andrew. slum it. well welcome, andrew. >> it's >> yeah, well, no, it's absolutely ridiculous. >> yeah, well, no, it's absanyway,idiculous. >> yeah, well, no, it's absanyway,idic have. >> yeah, well, no, it's absanyway,idic have got >> anyway, we have got a statement. however, in the interests this interests of balance, this is from lewis. says from john lewis. john lewis says we partnership to be a we want the partnership to be a place people or place where people can work or shop confidence, shop with confidence, irrespective of their backgrounds. studies, irrespective of their backgrourthose studies, irrespective of their backgrourthose from studies, including those from the government, show that trans people risk of people are at higher risk of hate crimes and discrimination. and was by and this magazine was created by our plus network to our lgbtqia plus network to champion understanding and support. it has been positively received by the huge majority of our partners . must correct them

our partners. must correct them on that. however, trans on that. however, because trans people, according to the research, one of the research, are in fact one of the safest demographics in the country. but never mind. >> if any, if any >> and also if any, if any people that received the magazine had out and be magazine had spoken out and be like, don't agree with this, like, i don't agree with this, they'd been like the they'd have been fired like the women ms society. women from the ms society. >> point, >> well, this is the point, isn't you're an employee and >> if you're an employee and you're this stuff shoved you're having this stuff shoved down you don't down your throat, you don't really to go really have a choice but to go along it. there's of along with it. there's a kind of coercion there, there? coercion there, isn't there? it's problematic to use coercion there, isn't there? it's phrasenatic to use coercion there, isn't there? it's phrasenaticthey to use coercion there, isn't there? it's phrase naticthey love. se coercion there, isn't there? it's phrasenaticthey love. next, the phrase that they love. next, on speech nation, professor on free speech nation, professor eric kaufmann is here to tell us why the first why he's launched the first pubuc public online course on wokeness. go anywhere

listening to gb news radio show. >> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. >> last october professor eric kaufmann . resigned his post at kaufmann. resigned his post at birkbeck university after two decades of service, citing political differences. he is a specialist on nationalism and political and religious demography, demography , and has

demography, demography, and has authored and edited multiple books on these subjects . but he books on these subjects. but he didn't like the direction of the teaching, so he left. now he's launched the first public online course woke at a western course on woke at a western university based at the university of buckingham and professor eric kaufmann joins me now. welcome to the show. great to be. >> so you left birkbeck university. >> what was your, uh, reasons for this ? well, yeah. for this? well, yeah. >> so there were basically what we have in terms of the crisis of the university now is two things. one, you've got pressure from the administration on you to that might discipline you, punish you for speech or for things you write. yeah. >> for the wrong opinions, for the wrong opinions. >> but but i think more insidious than that is the kind of peer pressures that operate. so other people who may think you're don't you're radioactive and don't want to around they want to be around you, but they also hire you, also may not want to hire you, promote publish so you promote you, publish you. so you are so dependent in a collegiate profession colleagues profession on your colleagues and and and not pissing them off and being side of them. being on the right side of them. that you have views that are that if you have views that are heterodox, which you in that if you have views that are h

a in a profession where it's 9 to 1, left to right, yes. and you don't fit the nine, then you know, there's an issue there. so you're have watch you're going to have to watch your step. >> used w" >> it didn't used to be the case, i mean, if you go case, did you? i mean, if you go back few decades in back a few decades in universities, just universities, it was just considered that you considered the norm that you would various would have people of various viewpoints was just the viewpoints that was just the accepted and standard. right? viewpoints that was just the accepted that's:andard. right? viewpoints that was just the accepted that's right.d. right? viewpoints that was just the accepted that's right.d. mean, >> well, that's right. i mean, a couple happened. couple of things have happened. one is, you know, in mid one is, you know, in the mid 60s, was maybe two and 60s, it was maybe two and a half, 1, left to right, not half, 3 to 1, left to right, not 9 to yes. and in the elite 9 to 1. yes. and in the elite universities mean universities now, i mean harvard, to right. so harvard, it's 82 to 1. right. so we're about the extreme we're talking about the extreme monoculture formed. monoculture that's formed. and also is more moralistic also the left is more moralistic and absolutist, morally absolutist than it used to be. so cocktail and so that's quite a cocktail. and so i kind of thought, you know, in have to get out and in a way, i have to get out and find space. find a free space. >> part of course that >> so part of this course that you've devised is to kind of explain, least teach explain, or at least teach people about particular phenomenon. >> exactly. i mean, woke >> well, exactly. i mean, woke is something that's surged in the press. it's covered very widely. and yet silence from universities of universities in terms of studying dispassionately . studying this dispassionately. >> well, because they >> well, that's because they embody >> well, that's because they em right? >> right? >> right? >> right. yeah, exactly. >> right. yeah, exactly. >> it's being a good >> they think it's being a good person ideology,

person rather than an ideology, just fascism communism just like fascism or communism or anything else. it needs to or anything else. so it needs to be studied so that's what be studied and so that's what the is doing, is the course is doing, which is open. to the open. it's online, open to the public. know, please do open. it's online, open to the publup know, please do open. it's online, open to the publup . know, please do open. it's online, open to the publup . um, know, please do open. it's online, open to the publup . um, also, w, please do open. it's online, open to the publup . um, also, of please do open. it's online, open to the publup . um, also, of course do sign up. um, also, of course there is week i'm going to there is this week i'm going to be launching the new centre for heterodox social science at the university of buckingham. and i should say the course is also based at the university of buckingham, which is aspiring now to be the only free viewpoint diverse university me out of 181 institutions in britain. um, so within that this new centre is going to be a place where non—progressive or not anti—progressive, but non progressive will have progressive views will have a critical can critical mass. and so we can explore questions that are difficult impossible to difficult or impossible to explore in a regular university. i mean, it's so sad to see that often some of the most elite universities seem to have these problems. >> oxford and cambridge are particularly plagued with i particularly plagued with it. i mean, the case that we're mean, is it the case that we're just to have to to new just going to have to go to new institutions? i mean, buckingham just going to have to go to new instiprivate? i mean, buckingham just going to have to go to new instiprivate university, uckingham is a private university, dates back so it's back to the 70s. yes. so it's relatively new. is it just that we're going to have students

relatively new. is it just that we'r> i mean, the centre is a research centre, but it will have teaching and it's got to grow. so we're looking sort grow. so we're looking to sort of and recruit of fundraise and recruit students grow

students so that we can grow and hire . yes. but yeah, hire more people. yes. but yeah, i course woke you i mean, my course on woke you know, on my twitter, you can see on tweet how to sign on the pinned tweet how to sign up different options. up various different options. but beginning up various different options. but we beginning up various different options. but we want beginning up various different options. but we want to eginning up various different options. but we want to study ng because we want to study subjects that been ignored. subjects that have been ignored. and mentioned and one of them i mentioned obviously the far left, the woke left, are things that left, these are things that need to be objectively, dispassionately to be objectively, dispa are nately to be objectively, dispa are alsoy to be objectively, dispa are also a whole range of there are also a whole range of other topics . i don't know if other topics. i don't know if you saw roland fryer , the you saw roland fryer, the harvard economist, who who had a video up on free press, where he talked about being having police protection for 30 or 40 days for just publishing and finding that black americans were not disproportionately targeted in police shootings. and for that, he essentially had to go into hiding . hiding. >> but that's an incredible story, isn't it? you know, i mean, he's dealing with statistics. he's dealing with facts, how have we facts, analysis. how have we reached the point where someone like be demonised like that would be demonised simply reaching simply for reaching the unfashionable, true unfashionable, but true conclusion? well exactly. >> and don't forget, this happenedin >> and don't forget, this happened in 2016. prior to the george floyd stuff. so if actually you had an open climate

of opinion, people might have been a little bit less credulous when some of the claims around thousands of young, unarmed black men being killed by. the police instead of 10 or 12. yes. and they might not have overreacted to this. so it could have saved thousands of lives, millions, billions dollars. millions, billions of dollars. >> ask about why is >> can i ask you about why is there a propensity among academics for this kind of groupthink? because i had joe phoenix on the show last week, who through a campaign who has been through a campaign of harassment over number of harassment over a number of years from academics, from her colleagues at the open university recently university and a judge recently found those people who found against those people who had been harassing her. but nonetheless, lot. nonetheless, that's a lot. she got diagnosed with ptsd. it was a terrible case. why and a terrible case. why is it? and i've been in scraps online with academics. tend to be the academics. they tend to be the most truculent. they tend most truculent. they they tend to behave like teenagers. but why the smartest why is it that the smartest people behave like the stupidest? >> right ? >> right? >> right? >> well, yeah, i think what is what it is, is a couple of things. i mean, one is you have this moral absolutism on the this new moral absolutism on the left, doesn't matter if left, and it doesn't matter if you're in the arts or in academia or elsewhere, you're going attitude going to get this attitude

inflexible attitude. but the other think, is this other thing is, i think, is this monarchy so once you're monarchy culture. so once you're at 1, to right, at 10 to 1, left to right, reality drift . drift reality starts to drift. drift away from you and the centre line becomes biased . and so line becomes left biased. and so you start to and people riff off each other and they push each other towards the extreme. so that happen . uh, the other that can happen. uh, the other thing that happens, course, thing that happens, of course, is it's 10 to 1, left to is when it's 10 to 1, left to right, the left and the right, and the left and the right, and the left and the right, even if they're discriminated other discriminated against each other equally, the equally, which they don't by the way. if they did, the way. but even if they did, the impact of discrimination impact of that discrimination ideology is 10 to 1 on whoever's the dissenter. now the dissenter. so we've now got a situation where that discrimination hits so hard because it's multiplied by their advantage . advantage. >> i mean, it's always been the case, that right case, hasn't it, that the right have tended view the left as have tended to view the left as just a bit naive, but the left have the writers have tended to view the writers as evil. as not just wrong, but evil. i mean, think that's really the mean, i think that's really the problem here. this gets exacerbated when there are the kinds so kinds of when it's skewed so much against particular much against a particular viewpoint. i mean, you're >> well, yeah. i mean, you're right, i think all of that's right, but i think all of that's gotten worse. i mean, so studies, of studies, for example, of especially young university educated people, 18 year olds in

2000 versus an 18 year old in 2016. same question in the in 2016. same question in the in 2016. that 18 year old is a lot more intolerant. and so even if you're a leftist, yes , in 2000 you're a leftist, yes, in 2000 versus 2016, i mean, they've just become a lot more absolutist and less morally relativist. they used to be a bit more morally relative, relativist , and it's now moral relativist, and it's now moral absolutism that's really dominant. >> do you think that there maybe there's a of academics there there's a lot of academics there who maybe have heterodox who do maybe have heterodox views, they just keep them views, but they just keep them to because they want to themselves because they want to themselves because they want to promoted and they to to get promoted and they want to get tenure or whatever it might be. think there are more be. yeah i think there are more academics with heterodox views than about, but i also than you hear about, but i also wouldn't want to exaggerate because oh, because some people think, oh, it's scared. it's just people are scared. >> they spoke up, you it's just people are scared. >> sanityey spoke up, you it's just people are scared. >> sanity would (e up, you it's just people are scared. >> sanity would prevail.)u it's just people are scared. >> sanity would prevail. but know, sanity would prevail. but actually it's not entirely the case. so, for example, most academics oppose cancel culture, but roughly by a 2 to 1 ratio. they would support, for example, mandatory diversity statements. more would support more of them would support quotas race gender quotas quotas, race and gender quotas on lists , would on reading lists, then would oppose it by about 45 to 30. so

yes, there are silence , people yes, there are silence, people who are scared. but there's a lot of people who kind of believe what's on the top of the tin, and they don't really look under what dei under the surface of what dei means find out just how means to find out just how illiberal is , which is why illiberal it is, which is why you a centre to study it you need a centre to study it and expose it exactly . it's the and expose it exactly. it's the really only the only way we can sort create this alternative sort of create this alternative knowledge these alternative knowledge in these alternative networks, to networks, i think, is going to be to start something new and then the then hope to influence the mainstream. that's that's goal >> just finally just remind >> so just finally just remind us, how do they find out more information about this. >> so go to my twitter which is at ufm . um, go the to at epc, ufm. um, go to the to the tweet . and you can find the pin tweet. and you can find all the information there. >> fantastic. eric kaufmann thanks. so much forjoining. thanks, andrew. thank you. okay and coming up on the show , and coming up on the show, doctor alka sehgal, cuthbert will join me to tell tell us why she thinks labour was new. race equality act is just an attempt to play identity politics. to play woke identity politics. this speech on gb this is free speech nation on gb

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radio. on mark dolan tonight, in my big opinion. >> why are the conservatives losing? because they're not concerned anymore. my guest is legendary former labour mp and celebrated diarist chris mullin . celebrated diarist chris mullin. and in my take at ten, john lewis are in hot water for launching a magazine which recommends breast binders for young girls. when did they give up selling electronic goods and

the latest fashions? we're live at nine. welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation shadow equality secretary anneliese dodds . said this week. anneliese dodds. said this week. >> labour's new race equality act will represent significant change. the party argues it will enshrine in law the right to equal pay for black, asian and ethnic minority people . so here ethnic minority people. so here to join me to discuss this is alka sehgal cuthbert from the campaign group don't divide us. alka, welcome to the show . i was alka, welcome to the show. i was under the impression that it's been illegal to pay people differently on the basis of skin colour for five decades or so. am i wrong about this? >> no, no, you're not wrong. um, i think what the. what the act, um, is, is attempting to do. part of it is , um, to do things part of it is, um, to do things like make mandatory reporting ,

like make mandatory reporting, um, necessary for all employers on racial disparities and, and, um, to also, uh , uh, sort of um, to also, uh, uh, sort of make it introduce the same thing that was introduced through athena swan, which is to make work, um, rather than like a two people doing the same job. it's like comparing work, which sounds sensible, like for, like, jobs , but actually it's much jobs, but actually it's much more complicated than that. you know, you could be in a classroom and have a teaching assistant and a teacher and you'd look at it and on the surface of it , from observation, surface of it, from observation, it might seem that they're doing the same work. and the teaching assistant might that he or assistant might think that he or she is doing the same work , but she is doing the same work, but actually the jobs are very different . the prior experience, different. the prior experience, pnor different. the prior experience, prior qualification is are very different. >> but there pay . >> but is there a racial pay. gap? because that's what labour seems to be claiming. and if thatis seems to be claiming. and if that is the case, is that because of systemic racism in various companies , or is it various companies, or is it because of something else ?

because of something else? >> well, i think that's a it's a really important question to ask of this act. is it addressing a real and well understood problem and i think the answer is it's really hard to tell because the way it's being presented by anneliese dodds and keir starmer is in a very politicised way. you know, it's making grand generalisations in weeping statements that are encouraging us to believe that a disparity must be discrimination and of course, we know that it isn't . course, we know that it isn't. if you actually look at the statistics, official statistics will see a much more complicated picture, you know. so, for example , if we're looking at example, if we're looking at household incomes as when you're looking at the person in the household with the highest income , you'll see that it's income, you'll see that it's indian, chinese and white. um ethnic groups that come out, that come out best, you know, they have the highest, highest household income . if you're household income. if you're looking at a different set of criteria, then it is true that

black african or black british employees earn less median gross salary than the white employees . salary than the white employees. but and this is a really frustrating thing, because the race equality act, as it's presented and conceived of at the moment, will not address this. if you look at the country of birth , um, then you see that of birth, um, then you see that it's actually uk born black african, caribbean and black british people earn more than white people . now, to me that white people. now, to me that would suggest that something worth looking at. it's worth investigating. it probably has something to do with migration . something to do with migration. and if you're looking at migration, then you're also looking at other people from east europe that are coming in and you'd be looking at language , be at family , you'd be looking at family support networks, but none support networks, etc. but none of this is being looked at. said we're having this very blunt instrument that is really an example of, um, the way starmer and anneliese dodds and the section of the labour party are really going quite dark. they're unable to withstand and ask

questions face of, you know , questions face of, you know, so—called anti—racist activists , so—called anti —racist activists, i so—called anti—racist activists, i would say their new racist , i would say their new racist, their racialized everything. and it's to the detriment of actually tackling with tackling real problems . and we do have real problems. and we do have this, uh, phenomenon cropping up again and again, don't we? >> when we had the commission for racial and ethnic disparities report, and they were looking into schools in particular, and they made the point that there's no evidence of systemic racism in the education system. and in fact, if look very closely the if you look very closely at the statistics, that statistics, you'll find that although, um, black children from caribbean background from a caribbean background aren't as aren't performing as well as white children, black children from african background are from an african background are performing white performing better than white children. in other words, if it is systemic racism, it's a of an oddly kind . but they oddly targeted kind. but they were criticised by the runnymede trust and others because they they failed to find the answer that it is. yes it is must be systemic racism . is that just systemic racism. is that just the problem now is sort of

determination from campaigners and activists to put everything down to systemic racism . down to systemic racism. >> it is a it is down to systemic racism. >>itisaitisa down to systemic racism. >> it is a it is a real problem. um, i mean that that the, you know, the promotion of the ideas that these activists and these charity groups are promoting very vigorously is a real problem for anyone that believes in truth . anyone that actually in truth. anyone that actually wants to understand and society as complex people are complex, that you need a good, robust social science methodology, not just quick qualitative reports , just quick qualitative reports, but you go out and interview people or you just look at one set of statistics and you need you need . the really chilling you need. the really chilling thing is that the kind of the way they're promoting this revealed belief almost, that you kind of you look at us, you look at a dispatch city and racism is revealed . that's all you need. revealed. that's all you need. it's silly face you need for free speech to actually investigate this properly . so investigate this properly. so they're actually, you know,

doing a disservice to the very people they claim they want to help. but they are, of course, being very well funded . get a being very well funded. get a lot of, you know, cultural and moral kudos for, for, um, promoting this very divisive narrative . narrative. >> yes. and of course, that's why don't divide us exists to address this, this narrative that we all must be divided. where can people find out more about group ? about the group? >> please do come to our website . don't divide us .com. if you like what we're doing, please support us, subscribe us and support us, subscribe to us and watch out for us because we are serious about this. this is a serious about this. this is a serious problem. it needs tackling . tackling. >> and alex cuthbert, thanks very much for joining >> and alex cuthbert, thanks very much forjoining me. >> and alex cuthbert, thanks very much forjoining me . and of very much forjoining me. and of course, what don't divide us do is that they attempt to, uh, thank you, counter this narrative that that we are an inherently backward, evil, racist society. they say that we have more in common. uh, and, you know , that seems to me you know, that seems to me a very positive thing. but of course, they're attacked for

doing so. well, i, i love what she's looking at she's saying about looking at the a problem. the detail of a problem. >> you fail to ask the right >> if you fail to ask the right questions and just lazily questions and you just lazily say, oh, the country's racist, you're at you're not helping people at all. not achieving anything. >> it's why labour, why >> it's so why does labour, why is party so is the labour party so determined to paint us as a racist country? >> oh, because gives them >> oh, because it gives them control people . control and power over people. >> diversity, and >> diversity, equity and inclusion . uh, it's, uh, it's inclusion. uh, it's, uh, it's a it's a way of organising society . and interestingly, a lot of , a . and interestingly, a lot of, a lot of far right people, a lot of, uh, you know, old school racists , like genuine racist racists, like genuine racist think that diversity , equity and think that diversity, equity and inclusion is fantastic because it divides people by racial groups. exactly. >> well, i think that's the point of don't divide us anyway. next on free speech nation, a 60 year old cyclist takes on a 60 foot lorry, and that means it's time for social sensations. please don't go anywhere. you're watching free speech nation

welcome back to free speech nation. now it's time for social sensations. that's the part of the show where we look at what's been going viral this week on social media. so first up, we've got this video from the german football league, where a game was a couple of was interrupted by a couple of remote controlled cars going rogue a look. rogue. let's have a look. >> it's half the number of goals that, uh, glatzel has that, uh, robert glatzel has scored on his own in bundesliga two. >> so two cars entered the pitch after ten minutes, uh, emitting

blue and white smoke. after a brief delay, stewards kicked the cars into touch. so the game could restart. uh, there are conflicting claims. the cars were driven onto the pitch in protest. again a proposed deal to sell a stake in football rights to overseas investor . rights to overseas investor. there's, um, the issue of, uh, funding . oh, no. sorry, i was funding. oh, no. sorry, i was going to ask you first about this. what do you think? >> yeah, i was i was thinking it might be a protest about funding for ukraine. >> i mean, it could because >> i mean, it could be because blue. >> fi ? it was $— >> and if it was yellow, if it was yellow, have. was yellow, it would have. >> it shouldn't protesters >> but it shouldn't protesters be is be clear about what it is they're protesting? >> protesters >> and shouldn't protesters protesting about something that matters instead of like a football stadium getting to football stadium getting sold to like an investor? >> i mean, doesn't that matter? >> i mean, doesn't that matter? >> doesn't even matter to >> no. it doesn't even matter to the you're not the world if you're not a football fan, are you? no i'm not. mean, this is this not. no no, i mean, this is this is the first interesting thing that's ever happened. >> is that the point? >> i mean, is that the point? >> i mean, is that the point? >> it's actually a bit >> it's actually made it a bit more watching car. >> well, we're talking about it, aren't >> well, we're talking about it, areiwe are talking about it. >> we are talking about it. >> we are talking about it. >> great form of protest. a lot of i want hear the benny >> great form of protest. a lot of musicant hear the benny >> great form of protest. a lot of music playediear the benny

>> great form of protest. a lot of music played over. re benny >> great form of protest. a lot of music played over. exactly.' hill music played over. exactly. watching the guys chasing. >> think better >> well, i think it's better than just oil people than the just stop oil people throwing stuff van gogh and throwing stuff on van gogh and stuff like that. be a stuff like that. i can't be a lot that. lot better than that. >> although this gives >> yeah, although this gives them a idea, doesn't it? them a new idea, doesn't it? let's what they're going let's see what they're going to do flares remote do with flares on remote control. oh, maybe. >> it's only >> but like you say, it's only football. that's probably the most thing i've football. that's probably the mosttonight thing i've football. that's probably the mosttonight anyway.iing i've football. that's probably the mosttonight anyway. so i've football. that's probably the mosttonight anyway. so thee said tonight anyway. so the issue for ukraine is said tonight anyway. so the isthorny for ukraine is said tonight anyway. so the isthorny one for ukraine is said tonight anyway. so the isthorny one in for ukraine is said tonight anyway. so the isthorny one in the ukraine is said tonight anyway. so the isthorny one in the us.aine is said tonight anyway. so the isthorny one in the us. so; is said tonight anyway. so the isthorny one in the us. so when a thorny one in the us. so when lord david cameron tried get lord david cameron tried to get involved met with involved this week, he met with a response from staunch a frosty response from a staunch republican have a frosty response from a staunch r> likened you m likened you to an >> well, he likened you to an appeaser hitler in not voting appeaser to hitler in not voting for funding for ukraine. are you an appeaser think an appeaser for putin? i think that , um, i an appeaser for putin? i think that, um, i really don't care what david cameron has to say. >> i think that's rude name calling and i don't appreciate that type of language . that type of language. >> and david cameron needs to worry about his own country. and frankly, can kiss my ass. but frankly, he can kiss my ass. but ouch. okay that was a us representative, marjorie taylor green, telling david cameron to keep his nose out of american politics in a particularly colourful way, and lord cameron has called on the us congress to greenlight a new funding package

for ukraine, likening those who oppose it to appeasers of hitler thoughts. >> leo, you're the worst than appeasers of hitler. >> that appeasers of putin and uh, yeah, i think these americans need to remember whose country they're really in. we still own that country. yeah, we let you win first war of let you win that first war of independence, there's no independence, but there's no saying going have saying we're not going to have another watch another one. so you better watch out . out. >> so you're angry on david cameron's yeah. cameron's behalf? yeah. >> no, honestly, is, uh, >> no, honestly, this is, uh, probably moment where i probably a rare moment where i agree with david cameron. i think doing good thing. i think he's doing a good thing. i think, think the the think, uh, i think the way the west just abandoned ukraine west is just abandoned ukraine and amount and the eu as well. the amount of funding is absolutely paltry. and it's not as if we give the money to ukraine. what happens is we spend the money in own is we spend the money in our own countries to build weapons to give to ukraine. so it can defend itself. and for some reason, uh, the, the right wing, who used to be, you know, staunchly nationalist and staunchly nationalist and staunchly defend, you know, western liberty and freedom and democracy. have completely democracy. we have completely flipped they're they're flipped and now they're they're like owen jones. they're like,

oh, no, ukraine's got nazis and all sort of stuff. and it's all this sort of stuff. and it's like, i just it blows my mind. >> if donald trump >> you know, if donald trump gets in, though, he says he'll end overnight. not end this overnight. he's not going well going to help ukraine. well interestingly, his interestingly, late in his first, first turm, first, uh, in his first turm, donald funded ukraine, donald trump funded ukraine, armed uh, you did armed ukraine, uh, you know, did everything right everything you'd expect a right wing leader to do. >> but now that it's become this sort of, uh, this tribal thing where the democrats are seen as supporting oh, we supporting ukraine, so. oh, we can't, you know, we've got to can't, you know, so we've got to be it's can be contrarian. it's weird. can there thing that there just be one thing that everybody agrees on and that thing be like driving putin out of showing , you know, of europe and showing, you know, all the all strong men all the all the strong men around the world, all these autocratic that you autocratic leaders that if you invade you invade invade taiwan, if you invade moldova, baltics , or moldova, the baltics, or wherever it is, then you will get this solid, staunch response from and we will unite, from the west and we will unite, you know, isn't that something we should should we should we should we should say, kearse alienating his >> leo kearse alienating his right wing fan base there. quite interestingly, make interestingly, what do you make of president xi would to >> president xi would love to have leo and discuss have dinner with leo and discuss it i we're always it further. i think we're always calling politicians to say calling for politicians to say what they really mean, she what they really mean, and she

did a great job, didn't she? just off the cuff. i've just straight off the cuff. i've had of this week . had enough of this this week. >> but mean, should >> yeah, but i mean, should politicians kind >> yeah, but i mean, should po language? kind of language? >> i mind. i'm not >> i don't mind. i'm not offended that all. it offended by that at all. no it gives pointers for how gives me some pointers for how to some of my to deal with some of my colleagues. talking colleagues. i'm not talking about schaefer. i about louis schaefer. i am talking louis schaefer. about louis schaefer. i am taliof] louis schaefer. about louis schaefer. i am taliof course louis schaefer. about louis schaefer. i am taliof course you're schaefer. about louis schaefer. i am taliof course you're talkingr. >> of course you're talking about schaefer. okay about louis schaefer. okay finally, should give way finally, uh, who should give way when foot long lorry comes when a 60 foot long lorry comes face to face with a 60 year old cyclist on a narrow lane cyclist on a narrow country lane 7 cyclist on a narrow country lane ? it's the old problem. let's have a look . have a look. >> you could just. >> you could just. >> sorry . where am i meant to go? >> to a wide bit. >> to a wide bit. >> there's a. i can see a wide bit. just three like you think it's easier for me to reverse. i'm 60 foot long and the same width of this road, as you can see by the fact i'm in the hedge. both sides go back because surely it's easier for you to go back as a pushbike than it is for me as a 60 foot lorry. >> so who are we siding with in that little dispute? cressida do you have a particular view? >> i do, i'm glad i don't live in the countryside anymore. i

really love london. um, do i have a view? god, i mean, it would be easier for the cyclist to go back. that's true. but who's the person filming this? it's they a it's almost as if they had a plan. why they filmed? plan. why are they filmed? >> oh, well, it's the person in the lorry. this is, by the way, is but is in hampshire. um, but but basically cyclist them basically the cyclist wants them to go the wide bit. to go back to the wide bit. yeah. like is yeah. doesn't look like there is a wide bit. >> well, no that's true. you don't get passing places very often. also reversing 60 don't get passing places very ofte|lorry also reversing 60 don't get passing places very ofte|lorry in lso reversing 60 don't get passing places very ofte|lorry in lso countryside 50 foot lorry in the countryside is dangerous, isn't it? >> yes. there could be hedgehogs about all sorts of things. >> your bike. >> yeah. get on your bike. >> yeah. get on your bike. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> i just love how you got two female and they're female road users and they're calling instead calling it the wide bit instead of, a layby or a of, instead of a layby or a passing place. >> fair, i would i would >> to be fair, i would i would have called the wide bit. have called it the wide bit. >> like, what's that >> it's like, what's that lorry you blue you know you got a blue one, you know what i mean. but, but but what would who do you would you i mean, who do you side with there, leo? >> of two, think the >> out of those two, i think the lorry. know why the lorry. i don't know why the lorry. i don't know why the lorry just barrel over lorry stopped. just barrel over that, you know, like, our pedant? >> what's our pedant? >> what's our pedant? >> a cyclist. >> obviously it's a cyclist. that's of pedant that's what sort of pedant is saying. like oh, no, you reverse, you jack—knife your lorry. can, know.

lorry. yeah. so i can, you know. >> wasn't there, >> yeah, i mean, i wasn't there, i know full situation, i don't know the full situation, but would say just but i would say that just looking from looking at that from the evidence, would surely the evidence, i would say surely the cyclist should just move out of the between the way. they could duck between the way. they could duck between the hedges, couldn't they? >> cyclists bit >> cyclists are a bit smug, aren't they? yeah, yeah. >> woman to reverse >> asking a woman to reverse in a is a big ask. a car is a big ask. >> asking her to do an articulating. >> and now leo is alienating all the viewers. doing the female viewers. doing a great job. >> leo. >> leo. >> goodness me, we're going to get complaints after get so many complaints after this now is the this show anyway. now is the part of the show where we're going to talk through your unfiltered dilemmas. i'm really very grateful for that. you email of your email in with all of your problems, think that problems, and you think that we're going to make a difference, do week difference, but you do it week on every single week. we get them has come in from them this one has come in from noah noah says. girlfriend noah. noah says. my girlfriend wished me a happy birthday on instagram . um, but i don't want instagram. um, but i don't want the whole world seeing my private if i repost then private life. if i repost then privacy goes out the window . if privacy goes out the window. if i she thinks i'm hiding i don't, she thinks i'm hiding something . what should do? something. what should i do? i mean, depends. i mean, does something. what should i do? i mearthatiepends. i mean, does something. what should i do? i mearthat reveals. i mean, does something. what should i do? i mearthat reveal your1ean, does something. what should i do? i mearthat reveal your birth does does that reveal your birth date? i mean, is the issue? noah there that you're worried about?

um, identity stolen um, having your identity stolen by fraudsters? what's the by by fraudsters? what's the issue there ? by by fraudsters? what's the isleell, re ? by by fraudsters? what's the isleell, everyone's obsessed >> well, everyone's obsessed with . why we with birthdays. why can't we be just grieve alone ? you just left to grieve alone? you know, to just have know, i like to just have a private birthday off private. i took my birthday off facebook few years ago, and, facebook a few years ago, and, well, meant put it well, you're not meant to put it up because people can get up there because people can get you. >> people can get the date, and then bad for security. >> people can get the date, and the okay, bad for security. >> people can get the date, and the okay, well, for security. >> people can get the date, and the okay, well, there's urity. >> people can get the date, and the okay, well, there's that too. >> people can get the date, and the also well, there's that too. >> people can get the date, and the also you l, there's that too. >> people can get the date, and the also you don'tre's that too. >> people can get the date, and the'also you don't have1at too. >> people can get the date, and the'also you don't have1at like but also you don't have to like you don't to acknowledge you don't have to acknowledge it. just have a nice it. you can just have a nice normal mean, are you normal day. i mean, are you against birthdays because against birthdays just because you're to death? against birthdays just because youit's to death? against birthdays just because youit's a to death? against birthdays just because youit's a kind to death? against birthdays just because youit's a kind of. to death? against birthdays just because youit's a kind of. it'so death? against birthdays just because youit's a kind of. it's adeath? against birthdays just because youit's a kind of. it's a it's:h? against birthdays just because youit's a kind of. it's a it's a? >> it's a kind of. it's a it's a morbid thing. you should be mourning it. the sweet relief. morbid thing. you should be mo no.1g it. the sweet relief. morbid thing. you should be mo no.1g it no,e sweet relief. morbid thing. you should be mo no.1g it no,e don't relief. morbid thing. you should be mo no.1g it no,e don't know. >> no. um no, i don't know. i just i just don't like a fuss. you don't like a fuss? i think he should be allowed to. and what's he worried that what? she worried he's hiding own worried that he's hiding his own birthday? i don't think he >> i don't i don't think he probably has an obligation, doesn't he, to repost instagram posts from his girlfriend, doesn't he? yeah posts from his girlfriend, doe but he? yeah posts from his girlfriend, doe but then yeah posts from his girlfriend, doe but then ifah posts from his girlfriend, doe but then if you repost this >> but then if you repost this post then post from his girlfriend, then his to find out. his wife is going to find out. yeah, that's a good point. yeah, yeah, that's a good point. >> girlfriend. yeah, yeah, that's a good point. >> girlfriethe problem with the >> that's the problem with the digital world, isn't it? it's very be very difficult to be a polygamist. yeah. these days. um, that with all um, anyway, i say that with all my there watching my wives out there watching

tonight. to. anyway, i hope tonight. nice to. anyway, i hope you're all well. um, now, our second dilemma comes in from greg, and greg says on a recent trip to kitzbuhel is that you pronounce it kitzbuhel . pronounce it kitzbuhel. kitzbuhel. there we go . i took kitzbuhel. there we go. i took a friend's really nice ski jacket that he'd left behind at the hotel bar. he spent the last two days of the trip freezing cold. i bought the jacket home and can now only wear it around the house in case he sees me in it. should i just flog it on ebay? oh wow. well well, firstly, you're a thief . um, that's not you're a thief. um, that's not justifiable, is it, leo? >> no . and like, why did he >> no. and like, why did he steal his mate's jacket? >> that's weird. this is why i dress like this. nobody steals my clothes. >> where is kitzbuhel? >> where is kitzbuhel? >> i don't know, austria . is it right? >> okay. is it one of those posh sort of ski resorts like gstaad? yeah. what do you make of this one, cressida? i'm with leo. >> what are you doing? nicking your mate's clothes. that's dawn, is it? maybe give it dawn, is it? uh, maybe give it to charity shop. that's to a charity shop. that's a

happy medium. >> it back to the >> well, give it back to the friend . is one suggesting friend. why is no one suggesting this? you've taken this? if you're. if you've taken someone's back someone's jacket, give it back to the who the to the person who owns the jacket. only one on jacket. am i the only one on this panel with a moral compass? unbelievable on, people, unbelievable come on, people, step up. right. we've got a final dilemma this week. this is coming from leanne. leanne says , coming from leanne. leanne says, is it just me or are prawn cocktail flavoured quavers just plain wrong? i mean , that's not plain wrong? i mean, that's not not so much a dilemma, is it? that's more just a complaint. i mean, i, i don't have an issue, i'm a vegetarian and actually, apparently you can eat prawn cocktail flavoured quavers even if you're a vegetarian. it doesn't have prawn it. doesn't have real prawn in it. no are harmed in the no prawns are harmed in the making those crisps. do you making of those crisps. do you think are particularly objectionable? >> leo and prawns aren't really animals either. they're like insects that live in the sea . so insects that live in the sea. so this is easy bugs. but we're already doing it. yeah, but prawn cocktail flavour. it just tastes wrong. it's like weird. it's like sweet. >> yeah. and sort of a bit fishy. >> yeah . >> yeah. >> yeah. >> you should stick to cheese and onion.

>> yeah. or a really solid. why mess with the natural flavour, man? >> come on. no. >>— >> come on. no. >> too much flavour and salt and vinegar. have a particular >> did you have a particular issue with prawn cocktail flavoured quavers? >> andrew um, to your >> i don't andrew um, to your earlier point, do you know frazzles vegan as well? frazzles are vegan as well? >> yeah, they are these meat >> yeah, they are all these meat flavoured not flavoured things. they're not actually in actually they've got no meat in them have to them stuff. you have to go to them stuff. you have to go to the posh crisps, you know, like the posh crisps, you know, like the crisps, like the kettle crisps, stuff like that. they've got real. they have of actual animal in have bits of actual animal in there, but otherwise they don't have bits of actual animal in therfrazzles herwise they don't have bits of actual animal in therfrazzles hervgreatiey don't like frazzles are great for vegetarians. frazzles did vegetarians. i love frazzles did you that animals are you know that more animals are killed vegetarian killed to provide vegetarian food than than or lamb? food than than beef or lamb? >> are you just making that up ? >> are you just making that up? absolutely not. i'm just grazes on the ground. >> it doesn't. nothing gets killed apart from the lamb eventually gets killed. but uh, if eat something that's made if you eat something that's made out then they're out of wheat, then they're killing the. they're killing all the. they're putting poison down. they're putting. they're , uh, probably jack they're using, uh, probably jack russells rabbits . uh, russells to catch rabbits. uh, there's that going on. there's all that going on. >> this. >> i refuse to believe this. >> i refuse to believe this. >> i'm vegetarian, and i'm not >> i'm a vegetarian, and i'm not responsible deaths of responsible for the deaths of these cows. >> dormouse nests get >> all the dormouse nests get caught combine. don't caught in the combine. i don't care dormice. care about dormice. >> thank you for joining

>> anyway. thank you for joining us for free speech this us for free speech nation. this was when a man was the week when a man was arrested for criticising hamas. a woman was sacked a 90 year old woman was sacked for about for being confused about pronouns the irish hate pronouns and the irish hate crime bill edged ever closer to reality. thank you ever so much to panel, cressida wetton and to my panel, cressida wetton and leo kearse and also guests leo kearse and also to my guests lois mcclatchy, miranda seymour, professor eric kaufmann and doctor alka sahgal . cuthbert. doctor alka sahgal. cuthbert. and by the way, if you want to join us live and in this join us live and be in this studio and of our wonderful studio and part of our wonderful audience, you can easily do that. go to wsroc that. just go to wsroc audiences.com. the address is there on the screen. stay tuned , there on the screen. stay tuned, by the way, because mark dolan tonight is coming up right in a moment. don't forget moment. and don't forget headliners on every at headliners is on every night at 11:00. late night 11:00. that's the late night paper preview where paper preview show where comedians take you through the next top news stories. next day's top news stories. thanks much for watching thanks ever so much for watching free nation . i'll you free speech nation. i'll see you next week . for a brighter next week. for a brighter outlook with boxt solar . outlook with boxt solar. >> sponsors of weather on . gb

>> sponsors of weather on. gb news. hello i'm marco petagna. >> here's your latest weather update from the met office. we'll hold on to rather mixed conditions weather wise across the during the week ahead. the uk during the week ahead. all of us seeing at all of us seeing some rain at times and turning colder from the later on. got the north later on. we've got a small pressure small ridge of high pressure moving the west tonight. moving in from the west tonight. quietening down, but quietening the weather down, but nofice quietening the weather down, but notice weather gathering notice weather fronts gathering out north—west out towards the north—west and they'll bring further unsettled weather during the next few days. into the days. so as we go into the evening the overnight evening and during the overnight period, the uk set fine. period, much of the uk set fine. we'll spells, we'll see some clear spells, allowing and fog allowing a few mist and fog patches to form, particularly across and the south—west across wales and the south—west of outbreaks of england. but outbreaks of rain their for the rain worked their way in for the north—west across and north—west across scotland and northern north—west across scotland and northe|the of england by wales, the north of england by the with blustery the morning with blustery showers towards the north—west. later so no frost later a mild night so no frost problems tonight. and we go problems tonight. and as we go into that band of rain into monday, that band of rain continues journey south continues its journey south eastwards, light eastwards, becoming light and patchy the patchy as it reaches the south—east. during course of south—east. during the course of the and fizzling the morning and then fizzling out much brighter out to give much brighter weather uk heading weather across the uk heading into . some into the afternoon. some showers out north—west. out towards the north—west. quite here with further out towards the north—west. quit moving here with further out towards the north—west. quit moving in here with further out towards the north—west. quit moving in acrossith further out towards the north—west. quit moving in across the urther out towards the north—west. quit moving in across the westr rain moving in across the west of scotland later in the day.

it's pretty mild day once it's a pretty mild day once again. temperatures generally in double figures, ten double figures, peaking at ten in near 13 or 14 in the north and near 13 or 14 degrees towards the degrees down towards the south—east for tuesday, south—east as for tuesday, we'll abandon and windy weather abandon wet and windy weather will move way will move its way south eastwards across many northern parts . towards the parts of the uk. towards the south and east. it stays mostly fine with a few bright spells at times and staying quite mild once of year, once again for the time of year, with into the low. with temperatures into the low. teens celsius in a few spots, but stays pretty unsettled we but stays pretty unsettled as we go wednesday and thursday. go into wednesday and thursday. further and further wet weather around and turning colder from the north later on to that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers . inside from boxt boilers. >> sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> on mark dolan tonight in my big opinion, why are the conservatives losing? because they're not conservative anymore. my guest is legendary former labour mp and celebrated diarist chris mullin . and in my diarist chris mullin. and in my take at ten, john lewis are in hot water for launching a

magazine which recommends breast binders for young girls . when binders for young girls. when did they give up selling electronic goods and the latest fashions? we're live at nine.

>> hello , i'm ray anderson in >> hello, i'm ray anderson in the gb news room. headliners is up next. but first our top

stories . 215 year old boys have stories. 215 year old boys have been charged with murder. that's after 16 year old darian williams died after being stabbed in a park in bristol on wednesday . stabbed in a park in bristol on wednesday. in a stabbed in a park in bristol on wednesday . in a statement, avon wednesday. in a statement, avon and somerset police said darian died after being attacked in rawnsley park in the eastern area of the city. the boys have also been charged with possessing a knife in a public place, and they currently remain in custody. they will appear at bristol youth court tomorrow as well . avon and somerset police well. avon and somerset police has referred itself to the independent police watchdog after arresting a 42 year old woman on suspicion of murder following the deaths of three children in bristol. following the deaths of three children in bristol . all children in bristol. all officers attended . a concern for officers attended. a concern for welfare. call in blaise walk in sea mills this afternoon. they say the suspect is currently in police custody at a hospital. one local woman says the family had two boys, aged around eight and six months and a girl aged around four. the force said it was contacting the iopc due to

pnor was contacting the iopc due to prior police contact