right to remove the whip , he was right to remove the whip, he couldn't say whether it would be returned . returned. >> is going to be allowed >> is he going to be allowed back into the conservative party if back into the conservative party it shows more contrition .7 if he shows more contrition.7 well that's a matter for the chief whip. >> but we've set out the reasons why the whip withdrawn was that failure to apologise .7 that's m atter. >> matter. >> you can't rule out him returning, having the whip returned. he may have the whip returned. he may have the whip returned. will he.7 if returned. he may have the whip returned. will he? if he apologises? >> i certainly i, i certainly i certainly wouldn't rule that out but that's a matter for the chief whip. >> another debate on gaza will be held in the commons after the chaotic vote on wednesday. the snp says it will take up the speaken snp says it will take up the speaker. sir lindsay hoyle's offer of a meaningful debate on a new ceasefire motion. there was uproar after he allowed mps to vote on a labour amendment leading to calls for his resignation. snp westminster leader steven flynn says his party will seek to move the debate forward . that will push debate forward. that will push parliament to support what he describes as concrete action, as

. migrants have been intercepted trying to cross the channel for the first time in a week. 290 people were found on six small boats. today and were taken to the border force, processed centre in dover. the latest arrivals mean more than 2000 migrants have crossed the channel so far this year , and a channel so far this year, and a local action group has won its fight over plans to house asylum seekers in cumbria. despite a severe housing shortage in the millom area. eight properties were earmarked for 40 migrants. it sparked backlash in the community, with police forced to increase patrols after one house was vandalised . in a letter seen was vandalised. in a letter seen by gb news, the home office has now ruled the site is not fit for asylum seekers as dean myers, from millom communication action group told us it's a huge relief . relief. >> the community has just been totally confused . we didn't know totally confused. we didn't know who was actually coming into the hmos. no one consulted us and it just sparked a bit of anger. i

think . think. >> and finally , long serving >> and finally, long serving conservative mp lord cormack has died at the age of 84. he served as an mp from 1970 to 2010 and was elected ten times, most recently for the constituency of south staffordshire. the archbishop of canterbury, justin welby , described him as a vivid welby, described him as a vivid character who was unfailingly kind . for all the latest kind. for all the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen, or you can code on your screen, or you can 90 code on your screen, or you can go to gb news comment alerts . go to gb news comment alerts. >> elon musk is nominated for a nobel peace prize. lawyers appeal against julian assange's extradition and liz truss has a warning about the deep state. this is free speech nation . this is free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. this is

the show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics. and of course, we'll have latest from those have the latest from those lovable warriors we keep lovable culture warriors we keep up date with what they're up to date with what they're trying so you don't trying to cancel, so you don't have coming on the show have to. coming up on the show tonight, assange waits to tonight, julian assange waits to learn fate after his appeal learn his fate after his appeal against extradition to the united states was heard this week , and myers from week, and fraser myers from spiked will be here to discuss that case. transgender cyclist emily bridges is planning to take british cycling to the european court of human rights over his ban from the sport, and we're going to hear from fiona mckenna from fair play for women on that subject. and we'll hear from the teacher who went viral after he used critical thinking techniques to disprove a student's contention that j.k. rowling was transphobic. and of course , myself and my wonderful course, myself and my wonderful panel will be to here answer questions from our studio audience and my comedian panellists this evening are bruce devlin and paul cox . and bruce devlin and paul cox. and paul bruce devlin and paul cox. and paul. of course, you've been branded the people's gammon i

am. >> yeah , i'm the people's >> yeah, i'm the people's gammon. yeah. good afternoon and evening to my little rashers. >> it's very strange though, because whenever you about because whenever you post about the show, lots of people throw images of pigs, right? the show, lots of people throw imeso; of pigs, right? the show, lots of people throw imeso atf pigs, right? the show, lots of people throw imeso at you.;, right? >> so at you. >> so at you. >> so at you. >> so my timeline is full of pig images, i could do without, frankly. >> yeah. do you know what i suddenly realised that when i tagged in this, usually tagged you in this, usually i would say, look, i'm on free speech nation. it's a wonderful show. and you'd show. tag you in and you'd retweet it, but i've noticed since become the people's since i've become the people's gammon and it's just endless pigs. i could pigs. pig. you're like, i could do without it. i could do without it. no, it can't be bothered. >> but are you a pig fan? >> but are you a pig fan? >> yes. yeah i know that means something your something different in your subculture. >> hey hey hey hey, i'm a snorter like anyone else. okay >> interesting. get. >> very interesting. let's get. we've lovely studio >> very interesting. let's get. we've so vely studio >> very interesting. let's get. we've so let's;tudio >> very interesting. let's get. we've so let's getio >> very interesting. let's get. we've so let's get some audience, so let's get some questions them. our questions from them. and our first is coming mike. first one is coming from mike. where's hello where's mike? hi. hello >> hi, andrew. is elon musk a hero of free speech? >> ah, yeah. mike, i don't know. i mean, obviously he took over twitter and his whole point of doing that was to try and

preserve free speech. um, but he's now emerged as a contender for peace prize. what for the nobel peace prize. what do of this? in fact, do you make of this? in fact, it's just one norwegian politics has that's it has nominated him. that's all it takes , apparently. takes, apparently. >> and this is because he's an arbiter of free speech. well, because something to because he's done something to make a, you know, to actually try and restore free speech to the cyber sphere. >> i suppose. >> i suppose. >> it hasn't, though. we >> well, it hasn't, though. we were discussing before were discussing this before hand. most of the people i know on x now are victims of algorithms and yeah, algorithms and being. yeah, they're allowed say they're not allowed to say what they're not allowed to say what they want and actually they want to say. and actually his has said that she his new ceo has said that she they restrict stuff that is legal. >> but just not very nice. well who's to say what's nice? >> well, this is it. not me, that's for sure. no no, but i'm sorry. i thought you were just appointed me. >> no, i mean, i think i do think it's better. i mean, i know a lot of people who got kicked off twitter simply for, um, using, well, accurately sexing people, you know, saying he about a man or a she, a woman that was enough to get you booted the old days. uh, booted off in the old days. uh,

certainly. satirical accounts got new voting conservative. >> have got you banned all >> would have got you banned all that stuff. that kind of stuff. >> think musk made >> so i think musk has made a difference in that respect. but there problems with there are still problems with twitter. are still twitter. there are still problems with the algorithm, and there are still people being deboosted good reason deboosted for no good reason other than a couple of people at twitter. them. twitter. don't like them. >> i think it's >> yeah, and i think it's because algorithm, because of the algorithm, because of the algorithm, because lumbering because it's such a lumbering beast that is unmanageable by humans that you've got rely beast that is unmanageable by hwthis; that you've got rely beast that is unmanageable by hu|this computerve got rely beast that is unmanageable by hu|this computer program rely beast that is unmanageable by hu|this computer program to ly on this computer program to filter things through, and it's going to get it wrong because it's going to misunderstand some things it things because, believe it or not, , yes, are not better not, robots, yes, are not better than humans . than humans. >> well, don't get nuance. >> well, they don't get nuance. they don't get nuance. no, they don't sarcas , um, either. they don't get nuance. no, they don definitely as , um, either. they don't get nuance. no, they don definitely not.|m, either. they don't get nuance. no, they don definitely not. i'vezither. they don't get nuance. no, they don definitely not. i've fallen no. definitely not. i've fallen foul of that myself . foul of that myself. >> and it's very annoying because sometimes the algorithms , you can't share , for instance, you can't share substack posts because has substack posts because elon has a particular issue with substack is that right? so whenever i post a new substack article, i can't the word substack . can't mention the word substack. i say, go and click on i have to say, go and click on that thing that i wrote online very, very annoying. >> what's a substack? >> what's a substack? >> what's it's i don't have

>> it's what's it's i don't have time it now. time to explain it now. >> don't you my >> why don't you go to my substack page and have a look at my articles, you'll get too my articles, and you'll get too busy. he's, of course, he's too busy. he's, of course, he's too busy. million things do. okay busy. he's, of course, he's too busy.move)n things do. okay busy. he's, of course, he's too busy.move onthings do. okay busy. he's, of course, he's too busy.move on t01gs do. okay busy. he's, of course, he's too busy.move on to another). okay let's move on to another question from peter. where's question now from peter. where's peter? hi. good evening. so has >> yes, hi. good evening. so has i woke? i gone woke? >> yeah. and i know what this is about. the i. gemini. gemini the gemini bot, which is the google thing you don't thing right now. if you don't know, don't if people know, i don't know if people watching this, but watching are aware of this, but basically created its own basically google created its own ai creating in other ai creating software. in other words, a prompt and words, you put in a prompt and you image. they but you get an image. but they but they basically revised they were basically revised history. they were put in, history. so they were put in, for instance, medieval night and all images that came were all the images that came up were women. actually, would women. well actually, i would suggest medieval england women. well actually, i would sugge was medieval england women. well actually, i would sugge was a medieval england women. well actually, i would sugge was a patriarchy.il england women. well actually, i would sugge was a patriarchy. there.and was a was a patriarchy. there weren't female knights at weren't many female knights at the the vikings the time. similarly, the vikings are black. um, there there's are all black. um, there there's are all black. um, there there's a really odd there's some images. there's a medieval knight for you. doesn't look much like sir lancelot to be honest. um, the very, very strange. like some of the actual revision , the revisionism. revision, the revisionism. i mean, what do you make of this?

>> mike just made me laugh so much. i put up my chair. >> i mean, it is quite funny, isn't it? what about you? >> yeah, it is, it's delicious, isn't it? it's got it's so woke now that you were to ask it now that if you were to ask it to depict a nazi, it would come back with a gay black man. back with like a gay black man. do have the image of the do you have the image of the founding fathers? >> when you put in >> i know that when you put in the image of the founding fathers, they came up in such a way that they didn't resemble the actual founding fathers. i think looking think someone's looking for that. we get a look of that. now. if we get a look of that, we'll show you that, we'll we'll show you there. is famous. mean, there. he is famous. i mean, look, we've got to be historically don't we, bruce? >>i bruce? >> i think so, i think i saw >> i think so, but i think i saw something where they'd done elon musk his face? musk eyes. what's his face? um, barack i don't know if barack obama. oh i don't know if that's the same thing or whether i actually or happened i was actually sober or happened or. was scrolling or. no no, no, i was scrolling i was scrolling , yes. was scrolling, yes. >> but this is the problem with this stuff. mean, like, this stuff. i mean, like, i think does actually suggest think it does actually suggest an history that an odd version of history that isn't to the truth, and isn't close to the truth, and it's not even good for marginal sized is it? because sized groups, is it? because it sort of suggesting there never really problem? no it's really was a problem? no it's entirely factual.

really was a problem? no it's entirely that's l. really was a problem? no it's entirely that's the problem with >> and that's the problem with all things that we stop all these things that we stop being progressive. about ten years ago, went mental years ago, we then went mental and it on in some in and carried it on in some in some crazy way. and we've ended up this. and the reason up with this. and the reason we've this nazi we've ended up with this nazi soldier. absolutely. we've ended up with this nazi soldcan absolutely. we've ended up with this nazi soldcan imagine, olutely. we've ended up with this nazi soldcan imagine, they ly. we've ended up with this nazi soldcan imagine, they were very, you can imagine, they were very, very diverse. >> the nazis very chiselled. >> the nazis very chiselled. >> yeah. very >> oh, actually. yeah. very chiselled, chiselled . chiselled, very chiselled. >> good point. >> that's a good point. >> that's a good point. >> all about the >> but it's all about the algorithm. old algorithm. again it's our old friend, the algorithm, isn't it? because it's written by a guy who crying who openly admitted to crying when tears of joy? yes. when he wrote tears of joy? yes. when he voted for joe when he wrote tears of joy? yes. when he voted forjoe biden. is that yeah, absolutely. that right? yeah, absolutely. there's out there that's there's a tweet out there that's a not tears of regret. a regret, not tears of regret. it was happy and it was and it was very happy and it was and but, you know, and that's fine. but very clear but that gives you a very clear indication of where he sits politically. and he's designing the that answers the base program that answers all the questions. >> same has happened for >> the same has happened for things alexa. so you things like alexa. right. so you know, was a point where know, there was a point where you or chat gtp you would ask alexa or chat gtp where you would ask this ai software to write a joke about, say, trump , and it would say, donald trump, and it would produce a joke about donald trump. then say, write trump. and then you say, write a joke about kamala harris or joe

joke about kamala harris orjoe biden. say, and they give biden. they say, and they give you saying you a lecture saying you shouldn't about them. shouldn't be joking about them. they're people. they're really decent people. and a problem. and this is a problem. basically, is investing in basically, i is investing in taking all of the taking on board all of the politics of its creators. >> then who's inputting >> but then who's inputting that? i've discussed that with you before because people are people programming people are programming the ai. ai just thing. ai isn't just a thing. >> just exactly so, so, >> no, it's just exactly so, so, so there's people in shadows so there's people in the shadows . people in the . there are people in the shadows yes, always shadows always in a yes, always yes. okay, let's move on. because i worry about where that will us. let's go on to will take us. let's go on to allen. allen hello, allen. >> hello, andrew. is liz truss correct about the deep state? yes. >> so she was speaking at cpac, cpac, which is the conservative party well i can't remember what it's called. it's basically the republican in america. and we actually clip what actually have the clip of what she let's have a look. she said. let's have a look. >> these are the friends of the bureaucratic establishment. they are of the deep are the friends of the deep state. and they work together with bureaucrats, of which we've got many more in britain than you have here in the united states. to keep things the same .

states. to keep things the same. and people in britain aren't happy about that. they want . change >> okay. and that's her next to steve bannon, which is not a sight i would have expected. yeah but it's interesting, isn't it, though she's effectively saying as conservative saying that as conservative prime she was not able prime minister she was not able to conservative to implement conservative policies. happened policies. we saw what happened with with with her economic policy with kwasi kwarteng and she's saying that reason for is what that the reason for this is what she the deep state, she describes as the deep state, which i think is maybe too conspiratorial sounding a phrase. think she's phrase. i think what she's really saying, really or should be saying, perhaps, is that even the conservative party has become so infected leftist ideas that infected with leftist ideas that it's impossible to advance a conservative agenda. paul, do you think she's about this ? >> well, 7_ >> well, she's ? >> well, she's she she's right that the blob, the deep state exists to some extent, like you say, to say it's completely in control would make it a conspiracy theory that most people probably wouldn't believe. >> however, the phrase no, because when people it's too tokenistic, they're always talking like, honestly, there are people who i've who i know who believe that there's this secret battle that run

secret satanic battle that run the entire globe and they're frankly bonkers . and they use frankly bonkers. and they use phrases like deep state. >> me . >> that's me. >> that's me. >> i know that's you, paul. >> i know that's you, paul. >> right. okay. sorry no, you're right. give. right. they're just to give. just give an example. um, just to give an example. um, margaret god rest her margaret thatcher, god rest her soul. andrew. she, she soul. andrew. she she, uh, she was power seven years before was in power seven years before she to through her she was able to get through her union reforms because she understood blob , this deep understood this blob, this deep state existed. and you can't go at these , okay? you can't go at at these, okay? you can't go at these things too quickly. it's my point. and she went at them far too quickly and went for this flash bang politics that this flash to bang politics that just backfired terribly. >> i don't this is deep >> i don't think this is deep state. i think this is intransigent civil servants, by and large. if you take and large. i mean, if you take what kemi badenoch has said about this, know, she tried about this, you know, she tried to do certain things. civil servants you servants would say, no, you can't can't do can't do that. you can't do this. we've even had a whistleblower the civil whistleblower from the civil service whenever service saying that whenever migration policies are attempted by office, are by the home office, there are staff members say, no, we're staff members who say, no, we're not because don't not doing that because we don't agree. that's not the role agree. and that's not the role of the civil service, isn't that the problem, the the problem, really? the impartiality civil impartiality of the civil

service? to be preserved? >> i would say yes. but what >> i would say so, yes. but what happened with the pork markets? do you not remember? that was a big for a there was big thing for a while. there was something with liz truss. yes. >> there something with >> yes, there was something with the that's what the pork market. that's not what we her we remember her for. >> that's what i remember. >> well, that's what i remember. listen, i represent some people at you much. at home. thank you very much. >> enough. i'm glad you >> no fair enough. i'm glad you mentioned because paul is here. >> so, like, she also said something about cheese. think something about cheese. i think she that she thought that brexit. >> something cheese. >> say something about cheese. >> say something about cheese. >> what did she say about cheese? love cheese, i cheese? i love cheese, yeah, i think just saying how think she was just saying how much loved cheese. much she loved cheese. >> oh, i can't stand her. >> oh, i can't stand her. >> to thaw. no >> i'm beginning to thaw. no maybe she's in the shadows. >> maybe is. i feel a bit >> maybe she is. i feel a bit bad for, you know, being prime minister was minister for just what was it, 49 days? >> te- e does she te— >> i don't what does she get a year now? 50 grand for free life. >> once you've been prime minister, you can. you can charge a it's a lot of pork. it's a lot of pork. let's move charge a it's a lot of pork. it"on lot of pork. let's move charge a it's a lot of pork. it"on loquestion. let's move charge a it's a lot of pork. it"on loquestion from, move charge a it's a lot of pork. it"on loquestion from, uh,ve to on a question from, uh, jenna. hi, jenna. jenna. jenna yes. hi, jenna. >> should shamima >> hello. um should shamima begum allowed return to begum be allowed to return to the shamima begum, because >> yeah, shamima begum, because i've been in the press awful i've been in the press an awful lot this week. lost her appeal against the removal of her

british citizenship. but of course, she ran off course, paul, when she ran off to syria to join illegal to syria to join an illegal death 15. death cult, she was 15. she shouldn't be let that go. >> well, there is argument >> well, there is an argument that should actually. that we should actually. and there that it's there is an argument that it's just that make just one person that can make that home that decision, the home secretary. there's lot to secretary. there's a lot to unpack shamima begum. this secretary. there's a lot to urnotk shamima begum. this secretary. there's a lot to urnot just shamima begum. this secretary. there's a lot to urnot just a shamima begum. this secretary. there's a lot to urnot just a simple, a begum. this secretary. there's a lot to urnot just a simple, uh,agum. this secretary. there's a lot to urnot just a simple, uh, this]. this is not just a simple, uh, this girl decided to be a terrorist and now she's a terrorist. and we should never back in we should never let her back in because, mean, those are because, i mean, those are essentially the facts. however, she is the symptom of a much wider problem . um, and we are wider problem. um, and we are making her the scapegoat, i fear. now i'm not suggesting that she should back in when you were knew that beheading were 15, you knew that beheading people wrong. people was wrong. >> and wouldn't go off >> well, and you wouldn't go off and marry someone who did, would you? >> e- e— @ don't know about the >> well, i don't know about the last. might have no, i last. i might have done. no, i wouldn't no, it does. wouldn't have done. no, it does. it old it does depend how old they were. that's the point. were. no, that's not the point. i'm making the point i'm making is that we. there's chance of i'm making the point i'm making is tito we. there's chance of i'm making the point i'm making is tito we. “anye's chance of i'm making the point i'm making is tito we. “any success.ance of i'm making the point i'm making is tito we. “any success. she's»f her to have any success. she's been made. she's been made stateless. was stateless. now she. she was essentially until stateless. now she. she was essewaslly until stateless. now she. she was essewas 21. until stateless. now she. she was essewas 21. because until stateless. now she. she was essewas 21. because that'stil stateless. now she. she was essewas 21. because that's the she was 21. because that's the law in bangladesh, because her parents were bangladeshi. uh, she she's no longer a uk

she was she's no longer a uk citizen and she just lives in some northern part of syria in a detention camp. and i'm not sure what this says about us as nation. >> so do you think we ought to take responsibility when our citizens break the law? we should , i think, i think to say should, i think, i think to say that she's unredeemable is wrong, right? >> however, if she was allowed back in, she should absolutely serve prison time for everything that she's done. >> okay. what do you make of this no. this one? oh, no. >> agree with you. i think >> i agree with you. i think there is a dichotomy here because obviously we believe in rehabilitate because obviously we believe in rehabilitwe were discussing it on do. and we were discussing it on the show yesterday and she was under legal age for making a decision like that. whatever. but i agree with you. i think you must have known some of what you must have known some of what you were getting into wasn't exactly pleasant , shall we say? exactly pleasant, shall we say? oh, absolutely. >> of the problem, >> and part of the problem, isn't it, bruce, that when she came back, didn't seem very repentant? >> but then you think >> no. but then if you think about well. and i'm not about it as well. and i'm not making for so making excuses for her, so please scream online please don't scream at me online or studio. thank you. but or in the studio. thank you. but the is, she the fact of the matter is, she must be just in a state shock

must be just in a state of shock . i'm not saying it's not self—induced like . i'm not saying it's not self—butrced like . i'm not saying it's not self—butrc mean, like . i'm not saying it's not self—butrcmean,you're like . i'm not saying it's not self—butrc mean, you're not e that, but i mean, you're not exactly living your best life, are you? >> she. are you? >> she made some serious errors of she'd done some of judgement. she'd done some really understating really bad things, understating it bit. really bad things, understating it this bit. really bad things, understating it this is)it. really bad things, understating it this is a . really bad things, understating it this is a medieval death >> this is a medieval death cult, so absolutely did . cult, so she absolutely did. >> and she she celebrated what happenedin >> and she she celebrated what happened in manchester. she celebrated other terrorist attacks. she's lost three children. doesn't seem to be too disappointed by that . there are disappointed by that. there are lots things about her that lots of things about her that make someone unlikeable make her someone very unlikeable . what i feel uncomfortable with is what we do with have we just abandoned now because she abandoned her now because she was british citizen? was a british citizen? >> bruce final >> finally, bruce final thought she's paying for the legal costs. >> $- @ this yesterday >> i asked this yesterday because someone said it was because someone had said it was legal she's legal aid, but if she's not a british citizen, who's paying. well, crowdfunding? well, i is she crowdfunding? >> don't know, she did have a >> i don't know, she did have a makeover, didn't on the makeover, didn't she? on the front the times front cover of the times magazine, she? well, that magazine, did she? well, that wasthey've westernised >> they've westernised there, aren't that the >> yeah, yeah, that was the point there. english. point there. she's english. >> yeah i think, i think i'm having a circular argument myself now. okay well look there's unpack there there's a lot to unpack there and to get to and we're not going to get to the of it tonight. the heart of it tonight. >> but interesting topic

nonetheless. next, coming >> but interesting topic nonjulianss. next, coming >> but interesting topic nonjulian assange ext, coming >> but interesting topic nonjulian assange ext, cctoing >> but interesting topic nonjuaboutssange ext, cctoing >> but interesting topic nonju about his1ge ext, cctoing >> but interesting topic nonju about his1ge e: aftertoing >> but interesting topic nonju about his1ge e: after hisg learn about his fate after his appeal against extradition to the united states . and fraser the united states. and fraser myers from spiked going to be myers from spiked is going to be here why this case here to discuss why this case has huge implications for has such huge implications for free speech. don't go anywhere .

you're listening to gb news radio show . radio show. >> welcome back to free speech nation. >> wikileaks founder julian assange is awaiting a decision on his fate after a two day appeal hearing was held. this week challenging his extradition to us. julian assange could face 17 charges of espionage and one of computer misuse after he published classified us military documents 14 years ago. assange could be sentenced to up to 175 years in jail if convicted. but his lawyers say the authorities in the us are seeking to punish him for exposing the illegal actions of their own government, including torture and killings.

the judges who heard the appeal say it will take time to come to a decision and a verdict is not expected until early march, if not later . so here to discuss not later. so here to discuss this, i'm joined by deputy editor of spiked, fraser myers . editor of spiked, fraser myers. thanks for coming on, fraser. >> thanks for having me. >> thanks for having me. >> julian assange case >> now, the julian assange case is really covered in is often not really covered in the media, and partly partly because complicated. because it's quite complicated. yes. want to talk us yes. do you want to talk us through what's happened here? >> julian >> yeah. i mean, so julian assange very controversial assange is a very controversial figure. have figure. people will have disagreements methods. disagreements about his methods. you know, publishing large amounts of classified documents rather than writing stories, you know, writing articles as many journalists might do. people will also disagree with the way he responded rape charges he responded to the rape charges levelled against him from sweden . you know, when he absconded to the ecuadorian embassy. but what this case is really about is about press freedom. he is really being punished for publishing things that are true that the us government and various people did not want him to publish. >> okay, but this has been embarrassing both for the

republicans and the republicans for and the democrats. i we the democrats. i mean, we had the hillary clinton emails, for instance. hillary clinton emails, for instanceso it's interesting, um, >> yes. so it's interesting, um, you know, the way how you know that this is actually about publishing the obama publishing is because the obama administration publishing is because the obama admi in.tration publishing is because the obama admi in 2013,n publishing is because the obama admi in 2013, their department back in 2013, their department of justice said, if we go after assange, then we have to go after the new york times, the guardian, all the other newspapers that publish the stories came from his stories that came from his leaks. yes uh, the trump administration took a very different view. um essentially, uh, the head of trump's, uh , he uh, the head of trump's, uh, he trump's head of, uh, uh, the head of trump's, uh, he trump's head of , uh, state trump's head of, uh, state department was also the cia director previously . yes. and, director previously. yes. and, uh, assange massively embarrassed the cia with a load of leaks called vault seven. now, these revealed were these kind of secret hacking techniques the cia were using, how they were able to, for instance, turn your smartphone into listening device and then into a listening device and then that changed suddenly, you know, the security state flips. the us security state flips. they declared all out war on assange. said that assange. they said that wikileaks longer wikileaks was no longer a publisher . wikileaks was no longer a publisher. it's a, you wikileaks was no longer a publisher . it's a, you know, publisher. it's a, you know, a spying agency, a non—hostile, a

non—state hostile actor. um, but also they embarrassed the democrats in 2016 because people might remember the stories about hillary clinton's emails that was actually to do with wikileaks. wikileaks were able to tranche of emails to publish a tranche of emails from john podesta, who is the chair of the hillary clinton campaign. and this revealed all kinds of things about what was going of course. uh, going on. yes. of course. uh, behind the scenes. >> that's point, isn't >> but that's the point, isn't it? you know, part of a journalist's job is to say the things that people power things that people in power don't to say. yeah, don't want you to say. yeah, but to things are to reveal those things that are in interest, is it in the public interest, is it not case that a lot of the, not the case that a lot of the, the, the things that assange ended revealing these the, the things that assange endedwere avealing these the, the things that assange endedwere actually these the, the things that assange endedwere actually important ese leaks were actually important for know? leaks were actually important for absolutely.? leaks were actually important for absolutely. i mean, you >> absolutely. i mean, if you think revealing things think they were revealing things like iraq, you like war crimes in iraq, you know, earliest know, one of the earliest wikileaks , uh, it was it wikileaks stories, uh, it was it was essentially about a plane or, sorry, a helicopter attack, a helicopter attacking civilian us. two reuters journalists died in this attack, and it's on film. there were hundreds and hundreds thousands of files hundreds of thousands of files from from the from the iraq war, from the afghanistan various afghanistan war, from various conflicts, you know, revealing, like, dodgy things, like, lots of dodgy things,

torture extraordinary torture, extraordinary rendition, all kinds of things that, you know, obviously the us and west more broadly wanted and the west more broadly wanted to keep hidden. >> then would you make >> but then what would you make of i mean, of the argument? i mean, the counterargument is really but he put lives at risk. he put people's lives at risk. he put people's lives at risk. he put undercover agents lives at risk through revealing this stuff . stuff. >> so this is said quite a lot. but think needs to be taken but i think it needs to be taken on. it's a bit of a myth, actually. originally wikileaks did names did not publish the names of various happened various agents. what happened was there was a security breach later on wikileaks has later on at wikileaks has actually accused the guardian of being fault this. i don't being at fault for this. i don't know is the case. know whether that is the case. yes. and so it was yes. um, and it was so it was never actually wikileaks intention publish the names. intention to publish the names. they publish willy they didn't publish things willy nilly that they are nilly in the way that they are often of thought of. often accused of or thought of. they publish reams of , they did publish large reams of, of information, classified information . um, that was, you information. um, that was, you know, not presented with an editorial slant. you could say. but they did actually redact some things . so i don't think some things. so i don't think it's fair to , you put that it's fair to, you know, put that on julian assange. and actually it's fair to, you know, put that on onean assange. and actually it's fair to, you know, put that on one hasssange. and actually it's fair to, you know, put that on one has come. and actually it's fair to, you know, put that on one has come up nd actually it's fair to, you know, put that on one has come up with:tually it's fair to, you know, put that on one has come up with any ly no one has come up with any specific cases. there's, you know, case has been in know, assange's case has been in court time again, and

know, assange's case has been in couthey time again, and know, assange's case has been in couthey haven'time again, and know, assange's case has been in couthey haven't actuallyn, and know, assange's case has been in couthey haven't actually named yet they haven't actually named anyone who could say has anyone who they could say has been from . been killed from. >> you know, a lot of >> but but, you know, a lot of americans, a of politicians americans, a lot of politicians in say that he's in america would say that he's a traitor. actually their traitor. that actually their security have security services need to have secrets order operate in secrets in order to operate in order to deal with this new cold war we're going war that we're we're going through. there through. i mean, isn't there a point that? well, security point to that? well, security services to have secrets. i think that's n secrets. i think that's i think >> i think that's right. i think that, know, there's that, you know, there's a reasonable to be had that, you know, there's a reasorwhat to be had that, you know, there's a reasorwhat what to be had that, you know, there's a reasorwhat what d0) be had that, you know, there's a reasorwhat what do you had that, you know, there's a reasorwhat what do you harwith about what what do you do with whistleblowers? but julian assange wasn't whistleblower. assange wasn't a whistleblower. so think so you could say, i think i don't it's outrageous to don't think it's outrageous to say chelsea manning or say that chelsea manning or bradley manning at the time should of should face some kind of punishment for revealing secrets that entrusted him . that were entrusted to him. right. um, and he went to prison for seven years for. >> i think that's reasonable, because he had agreed as part of his actually part of the job is, you know, your to keep you know, yourjob is to keep those things secret. >> that, you >> i'm not saying that, you know, the punishment is know, maybe the punishment is too whatever, but too harsh or whatever, but i think completely think it's a completely different, we're different, uh, thing we're talking what? assange is talking about what? assange is being is being punished for, and this is what unique about it. is what is unique about it. this is the that spying the first time that spying charges levelled charges have been levelled

against publishing, against someone for publishing, you know, journalists publish secrets all the time, but usually it's not, you know, they're not the ones doing the taking . they're not doing the taking. they're not doing the hacking or whatever into a system. they're okay. >> it were to be >> but if it were to be discovered that was involved discovered that he was involved in the actual hacking part of it, would change this it, that would change this slightly. would would it, that would change this slightly one vould would it, that would change this slightly one ofrld would it, that would change this slightly one of the would it, that would change this slightly one of the counts, change one of the counts, i think. >> t- t think it would. >> but i don't think it would. it would the of 18 it would warrant the sort of 18 charges against him, charges levelled against him, adding 175 years in prison. >> and it's a bit of a vendetta, isn't it, from various american politicians. just politicians. and they are just embarrassed, you know, we because they you know, if we really about security really care about our security services, we want hold them services, we want to hold them to standards. yes, to the highest standards. yes, torture to and that kind of thing. >> it's the kind thing that >> it's the kind of thing that we to happen. and >> it's the kind of thing that we embarrassed.iappen. and >> it's the kind of thing that we embarrassed. both 1. and >> it's the kind of thing that we embarrassed. both parties he's embarrassed. both parties in the us, he's you know, he's embarrassed politicians in the uk as well, embarrassed , you uk as well, embarrassed, you know, the entire know, embarrassed the entire west with many leaks of diplomatic . but really, diplomatic cables. but really, you know, this is about our right to know what is going on as members of the public really interesting in terms, i mean, you know, the you mentioned, you know, the guardian published a lot of this

information as well, but they should so. should be able to do so. >> i mean, there are >> right? i mean, there are ramifications for ramifications here for journalists broadly , aren't there? >> absolutely. i mean, i think there will be a hugely , uh, huge there will be a hugely, uh, huge chilling effect journalism if chilling effect on journalism if this forward . i mean, this is to go forward. i mean, another factor we have to remember a us remember is he is not a us citizen . um, he didn't commit citizen. um, he didn't commit his alleged crimes in us, so his alleged crimes in the us, so what kind of precedent does it set that the us can essentially say, well, we want this person who's that's who's published something that's embarrassing know, you embarrassing and, you know, you just send him up to us, send him to us to be in prison. that's very dangerous. to us to be in prison. that's very cthere ous. to us to be in prison. that's very cthere is s. to us to be in prison. that's very cthere is it possible for >> is there is it possible for him a fair trial? him to get a fair trial? >> i don't think so. because there is. you know, such a deep seated hostility the seated hostility to him in the us. mean , if you think about us. i mean, if you think about the it was revealed and, the cia, it was revealed and, you know, at high levels of the trump administration well, trump administration as well, were openly talking about when he the ecuadorean he was still in the ecuadorean embassy, can we kidnap him he was still in the ecuadorean embkill', can we kidnap him he was still in the ecuadorean embkill him can we kidnap him he was still in the ecuadorean embkill him like1 we kidnap him he was still in the ecuadorean embkill him like thee kidnap him he was still in the ecuadorean embkill him like the that1ap him he was still in the ecuadorean embkill him like the that was1im and kill him like the that was that's it's this is a known fact that's it's this is a known fact that agents discussed and actually ordered different plans and scenarios for how that might be done. so for to be able to

say, you know, for people to be able to say he'll get a fair trial those circumstances trial under those circumstances when know that state when we know that the us state has considered assassinating him. don't think that's so. him. i don't think that's so. >> surely this should affect the high but we high court's ruling. but we don't it's going don't know what it's going to be, do we? >> don't know. and i don't >> we don't know. and i don't think on our on think it looks good on our on our , to honest. our side, to be honest. you know, i think he again what he's been charged only with skipping know, i think he again what he's beerinharged only with skipping know, i think he again what he's beerin the ed only with skipping know, i think he again what he's beerin the uk only with skipping know, i think he again what he's beerin the uk and with skipping know, i think he again what he's beerin the uk and yet] skipping know, i think he again what he's beerin the uk and yet he's)ping know, i think he again what he's beerin the uk and yet he's been bail in the uk and yet he's been put belmarsh which usually put in belmarsh which is usually a we reserve for a prison. we reserve for terrorists and you know, serial killers. yes. the high court wants, um, essentially allowed him to delay extradition, but that was purely on the grounds of his ill health. uh, no. court in the uk , including the supreme in the uk, including the supreme court, actually has ever recognised his defence, his right to free speech or the importance of press freedom. so i'm actually very pessimistic about where this is going. >> very interesting. we're going to keep some tabs on this one. fraser myers, thanks so much for joining us. and still to come on free speech nation tonight , a free speech nation tonight, a transgender cyclist threatens to take legal action against

british cycling and we're going to be discussing this week's chaotic scenes in the house of commons. uh, but next, me and my brilliant panel will get more questions from this lovely studio audience. don't go anywhere

>> you're listening to gb news radio . welcome back radio. welcome back to free speech nation. >> later in the show i'll be turning agony uncle with the help of my panel, bruce devlin and cox, the people's and paul cox, the people's gammon. we're going to help you deal unfiltered deal with your unfiltered dilemmas. email gb dilemmas. so just email us at gb views at news. com and we views at gb news. com and we will our best to answer all will do our best to answer all of problems. now of your personal problems. now let's get some more questions from audience . our first from the audience. our first question comes from tamsin west. tamsin. hello. hello, hello. >> is birmingham becoming a cultural wasteland ? cultural wasteland? >> goodness me, well done. >> goodness me, well done. >> well done. i know you work in the creative industries in birmingham are really worried because of council cuts, and they think it's going to have a

huge impact. >> this was earlier this week. the said that they're the council said that they're basically they've basically bankrupt. they've cut certain as certain things such as birmingham heritage week. they've it by 100, which they've cut cut it by 100, which i believe is just getting rid of it. >> yeah . >> yeah. >> yeah. >> it's not good for birmingham. i mean, it's a second city, right? you think that right? so you would think that it needs investment. >> to avoid saying, >> yeah. i want to avoid saying, oh it's a labour council oh because it's a labour council because labour council because it is a labour council and they're very bad it. and they're very bad at it. didn't so didn't to didn't you. so i didn't want to say but i've said that, say that, but i've said that, um, it's outstanding because you cannot you cannot lose that amount of money on such a consistent without poor consistent basis without poor financial you're financial management. so you're basically saying they're not very at jobs. they're very good at their jobs. they're not. is, they not. well the thing is, they live. kind of pie in the live. it's kind of pie in the sky stuff. this why most sky stuff. this is why most people, they even if people, even if they even if they socialist , yes, they they are socialist, yes, they believe in conservative economics. the reason they do is because you can't have socialism without good economics. you just you just simply can't. you can't, you can't share it around if you ain't got it. no. >> fair enough. breezy you're a fan of birmingham . fan of birmingham. >> i feel sorry for them . not >> i feel sorry for them. not not like that. but i feel sorry

for what they're through for what they're going through because to be going because they do seem to be going through a lot, and a lot is being from them. yes being taken from them. yes >> they've snubbed being taken from them. yes >>the they've snubbed being taken from them. yes >>the kind ey've snubbed being taken from them. yes >>the kind ofve snubbed being taken from them. yes >>the kind of the snubbed being taken from them. yes >>the kind of the city snubbed being taken from them. yes >>the kind of the city that'sibed as the kind of the city that's not, not important as london. not, not as important as london. >> exactly. >> so you know exactly. and they've alison hammond, they've given us alison hammond, beverley knight, lenny henry. i mean do you want. mean what more do you want. >> a very point. >> that's a very good point. okay let's get another question now adriana. adriana. now from, uh, adriana. adriana. hi adriana. >> andrina. yes. >> andrina. yes. >> andrina. yes. >> andrina . >> andrina. >> andrina. >> um, my question is, should the menopause be classed as disability? >> so . so, andrina i'm going to >> so. so, andrina i'm going to come to you in a second on this. so the equalities watchdog says employers could be sued for disability discrimination if they do not make reasonable adjustments menopausal adjustments for menopausal women. would include, women. and that would include, you being allowed work you know, being allowed to work from home, um, changing the office that kind of office temperature, that kind of thing. , i think thing. now, andrina, i think you're more qualified to talk than i am. i'm i'm this isn't going to me. do you think going to affect me. do you think that women do need more that this women do need more protections workplace that this women do need more protethisis workplace that this women do need more protethis kind workplace that this women do need more protethis kind of workplace that this women do need more protethis kind of stuff?)lace with this kind of stuff? >> yeah, definitely 100. i think with the menopause , believe it with the menopause, believe it or not, i'm probably like early

menopausal myself. i don't , you menopausal myself. i don't, you know, look as yeah , and you know, look as yeah, and you asking us to judge. >> no no no i'm not i'm not going to i get told all the time i don't look my age. >> no, no double that. >> no, no double that. >> fantastic. but that's off the point. um my point is. point. um so my point is. >> yeah, i think that it depends on how debilitating it is for the person. >> yeah. i mean, it's a tricky one, isn't it? because. no, i think that's absolutely right. i think that's absolutely right. i think that, like, employers have a responsibility to make sure that everyone's kind of comfortable. this comfortable. and, you know, this is have is something that does have although you haven't you know, you're not there yet. it does although you haven't you know, you'r> thought was >> he thought it was like a unique cycle. >> but we should .

>> but we should. >> but we should. >> but we should, shouldn't we? i mean, should looking i mean, i should be looking after various. after people for their various. >> completely. after people for their various. >> that's:ompletely. after people for their various. >> that's something that all women going to go through. >> that's something that all worlook, going to go through. >> that's something that all worlook, ofgoing to go through. >> that's something that all worlook, of all|g to go through. >> that's something that all worlook, of all|g tc nonsense gh. >> look, of all the nonsense that and to undermine that and i hate to undermine everything, of all everything, but of all the nonsense we've spoken about nonsense that we've spoken about in the last ten years, this is actually good policy, i actually a very good policy, i believe, why wouldn't believe, because why wouldn't you take consideration that you take into consideration that a woman's body changes so dramatically at one point in her life, and we can't put a time on it? could be, you know, from it? it could be, you know, from what i understand, it could be months. be years. so of months. it could be years. so of course, should accommodate months. it could be years. so of course, whyould accommodate months. it could be years. so of course, whyould accowe?>date for that. why wouldn't we? >> point. okay, let's >> yeah. good point. okay, let's get from tatiana. hi, get a question from tatiana. hi, tatiana. get a question from tatiana. hi, tatihia. get a question from tatiana. hi, tatihi . so my question is, do you >> hi. so my question is, do you believe that sanctions against average russians are counterproductive, i.e. they might isolate russians? okay now i'm detecting your accent . i'm detecting your accent. >> a certain russian quality . >> a certain russian quality. >> a certain russian quality. >> are you russian? that's right. well you know, i'm a product of soviet union, so , you product of soviet union, so, you know, but i grew up in moscow, so saying. so what you're saying. >> when the west puts >> so when the west puts sanctions on putin, they're effectively ending up punishing the people. and that is it. your

view that that then generates more putin? more support for putin? >> well , more support for putin? >> well, basically it puts people position that being people in a position that being of quite isolated , because one of quite isolated, because one of quite isolated, because one of the strategy of the state is to say, look , they don't like to say, look, they don't like you in the west anyway , of you in the west anyway, of course. and that's exactly what's happening, you know, because when, say , tennis because when, say, tennis players not allowed to play players are not allowed to play in wimbledon people are not in wimbledon or people are not allowed to travel, you know, then that becomes that, okay, so what do we do? even if we dig into putin's hands by doing that? well, potentially that definitely one point view. definitely one point of view. >> really interesting . uh, paul, >> really interesting. uh, paul, what do you think about this? because difficult because because it is difficult because on hand, people on the other hand, people do feel governments feel the western governments feel they have to do something. yeah, but, as yeah, but but but, uh, as tatiana says, this can backfire . tatiana says, this can backfire. >> can i just check? tatiana, you haven't come all the way from moscow to this question. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> because feel a >> because i feel under a tremendous of pressure. >> because i feel under a treryeah, us of pressure. >> because i feel under a treryeah, us people, pressure. >> because i feel under a treryeah, us people, some|re. >> yeah, some people, some people i might people are saying i might be an agent, lived. agent, but i have lived. >> i'm. i'm a british citizen. despite how i sound. >> tatiana definitely not a secret agent. so. so everyone

calm down. i okay, even though tatiana is in the room and i still don't believe her. >> um, i would say i think there isn't much evidence to say sanctions work right ? putin sanctions work right? putin doesn't seem to be too worried about it. it carries on and it plays right into his. i've always , always thought about always, always thought about sanctions. we seem to well, they don't work when the when the when the when against tyrants because they don't work against despots. >> because they don't really care happens to the people. >> that they don't >> so we're told that they don't care the people, when care about the people, but when we this them, they just we do this to them, they just turn their people say, turn to their people and say, look, about you. look, they don't care about you. i'm one who's going to i'm the only one who's going to care about you. i don't see i don't see how it works. >> it seems like an intractable problem. think, problem. what do you think, bruce? well don't really think bruce? well i don't really think much with much to be quite honest with you. was walking to the >> and when i was walking to the studios today, i saw you could get of putin and one of get a mask of putin and one of lorraine kelly and which would you both. you prefer? both. >> that if >> i would suggest that if lorraine in charge of lorraine kelly was in charge of russia, have of russia, we wouldn't have any of these russia, we wouldn't have any of the i; russia, we wouldn't have any of thei completely agree, actually. >> i completely agree, actually. you know, got no you know, she's got that no nonsense friendly. >>

wm e f“— >> can i just go on record and say, putin, top guy? um, you can if to. if you want to. >> tatiana is horrified by that. >> it's just i've got a balcony. >> it's just i've got a balcony. >> okay, there we go. let's move on. now to another question. who's our next question from? it's from andy. andy, where are you? >> i'm. >> i'm. >> oh, a microphone is quite far from andy. >> the talking stick is not with you. >> i know, but be the first time. >> andy, tell me what your question might be. >> good evening . do we need some >> good evening. do we need some dickensian discipline for kids? >> . >> yes. >> yes. >> dickensian discipline. this has come out of this, uh, school in brighton called the dorothy stringer. dorothy dorothy stringer. the dorothy dorothy stringer. the dorothy dorothy stringer school. and they have set up what it's been called a dickensian approach. and the idea that pupils get rewarded idea is that pupils get rewarded for good behaviour by getting nearer the front of the food queue during lunch time. bruce that strikes me as quite a good idea because i tell you what, i used to teach in a boarding school and food is the thing that about. the that the kids care about. the most. absolutely. a most. absolutely. without a doubt. because kids doubt. well, yeah, because kids are and doubt. well, yeah, because kids are train and doubt. well, yeah, because kids are train them and doubt. well, yeah, because kids are train them with and doubt. well, yeah, because kids are train them with food. and you train them with food. >> that's exactly what you

>> so that's exactly what you would do. i don't necessarily would do. so i don't necessarily think dickensian. i think would do. so i don't necessarily ththey're dickensian. i think would do. so i don't necessarily ththey're dickertonn. i think would do. so i don't necessarily ththey're dickertonn. little< if they're going to be little bleeders blighters , bleeders or little blighters, send to the back. in fact, send them to the back. in fact, give nothing. well, yeah, give them nothing. well, yeah, but was absolutely flop. >> there was a parent who complained school saying complained to the school saying that coming that her daughter keeps coming home the time her home hungry, and by the time her group into the canteen, group gets into the canteen, everything's almost gone. maybe your better behaved. >> and maybe that's your fault anyway. >> paul. >> paul. >> well , i was >> paul. >> well, i was a very good boy, so i just hung around at the school buffet. but now, of course, i mean, there is a fine line. some of this, some of this is just a product of our times, isn't it? you're absolutely right. you're a teacher. you hate children, so you . we are hate children, so you. we are we're not we're not going to get we're not we're not going to get we're not we're not going to get we're not going get sensible we're not going to get sensible answers. one thing that is answers. but one thing that is true is aren't disciplined true is kids aren't disciplined in way. i know this. in the same way. i know this. i've a teenage daughter. i've got a teenage daughter. i try to discipline her. she doesn't me. then doesn't listen to me. and then i carry just buying her carry on just buying her expensive we bring carry on just buying her expe|corporal we bring carry on just buying her expe|corporal punishment? ng back corporal punishment? >> yes . oh, yes. so batter them. >> batter . >> batter. >> batter. >> now, look, when i was at a

convent school, i was beaten, thrashed by a nun. the headmistress . um. and thrashed by a nun. the headmistress. um. and i thrashed by a nun. the headmistress . um. and i wasn't headmistress. um. and i wasn't happy about that. and i've never forgotten it. and i've never given the catholic church for it ehhen given the catholic church for it either, i think either, so. okay, well, i think that horrendous thing. either, so. okay, well, i think tha i horrendous thing. either, so. okay, well, i think tha i we'veendous thing. either, so. okay, well, i think tha i we've gones thing. either, so. okay, well, i think thai we've gone offing. either, so. okay, well, i think thai we've gone off topic, >> i think we've gone off topic, but . it was funny because i had but. it was funny because i had an incident on the elizabeth line. i won't it, but line. i won't go into it, but suffice say i won. you suffice to say i won. thank you and it was the guy who was on the and said, do you the door and he said, do you know problem people know the problem with people nowadays? hit nowadays? no one's getting hit enough. there's enough. and i thought, there's something because something in there, because if people in the something in there, because if peopii'm in the something in there, because if peopii'm not in the something in there, because if peopii'm not pro—violence, n the something in there, because if peopii'm not pro—violence, byhe face, i'm not pro—violence, by the way, but some people deserve it. you just punch them, it. and if you just punch them, they'd from they'd maybe stay away from you. i say punching i mean, i would say punching children the face is an issue. >> yeah, yeah. >> yeah, yeah. >> if you're asking me, agree. >> if you're asking me, i agree. >> if you're asking me, i agree. >> maybe, maybe >> yeah. but maybe, maybe there's something to it. i mean, it is the case that a lot of teachers they enforce teachers feel they can't enforce discipline because the kids know there's nothing do. no. there's nothing you can do. no. >> we live. do there's nothing you can do. no. >> in we live. do there's nothing you can do. no. >> in a we live. do there's nothing you can do. no. >> in a world live. do there's nothing you can do. no. >> in a world now ive. do there's nothing you can do. no. >> in a world now where do live in a world now where children can get away with with murder. literally. >> food queue idea >> i think the food queue idea is brilliant. yeah it's is actually brilliant. yeah it's not but not physical violence. it's but it they're it will work because they're greedy. >> mental torture >> yeah, it's mental torture though. that's good. though. so that's good. >> i mental is

>> i think mental torture is fine. yeah. >> okay. so next on free speech nafion >> okay. so next on free speech nation transgender cyclist emily bridges is planning to take british cycling to the european court human rights because court of human rights because he's not allowed to play in the sport anymore. >> and mackinnon from fair >> and fiona mackinnon from fair play women be to play for women will be here to discuss that. do not go discuss that. please do not go anywhere

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle, transgender cyclist emily bridges says he is willing to take the sport's governing body in the uk to the european court of human rights in strasbourg over their decision not to allow him to compete against females. last year. cycling authorities, both nationally and internationally, ruled that men who identify female are who identify as female are ineligible to compete in women's events , and bridges says he may events, and bridges says he may not compete at the elite level again. himself but wants to contest the ruling for the benefit of future generations,

and says he admitted had and says he admitted that he had lost competing again at lost hope of competing again at an level . okay, so to an elite level. okay, so to discuss this very interesting topic, i'm joined by fiona mckinnon, director of sport at fair play for women. fiona welcome to the show. >> thank you so emily bridges is a biological male. >> why should he be able to participate in female sport? well we don't think he should because we don't think identity matters at all in sport. >> emily bridges should be welcome in an open cycling which used to be called men's cycling and in fact, at university, emily did compete very successfully in his university psych team cycling team and won a medal at the british championships. >> so this is someone who was actually a champion even within the men's category . so that's the men's category. so that's going someone who huge going to be someone who has huge advantage women by virtue advantage over women by virtue of going through male puberty, for one thing. yeah. >> so bridges was a gb junior champion at 25 miles, was in the academy and ended up leaving the british cycling academy . british cycling academy. >> sorry, fiona, just giving you

a handheld mic because there's a problem with the tech there. >> bridges left the junior >> so bridges left the junior academy quite make the academy didn't quite make the grade, but course , um, a male grade, but of course, um, a male body on a bike is very fast compared to female. and so . so, compared to female. and so. so, um, even being not quite good enough team, enough for the men's team, bndges enough for the men's team, bridges still be good bridges could still be good enough to be in the women's team if allowed. and if that were allowed. and clearly grossly unfair. >> so to give the counterargument , you know, emily counterargument, you know, emily bridges this is bridges has said that this is very, upsetting, very, very upsetting, distressing the that the distressing the idea that the bodyin distressing the idea that the body in charge of cycling is saying no, we have strict categories based on biological sex, not based on gender identity . so do understand identity. so do you understand that sport people generally that for sport people generally who's vocal passion is their chosen sport , that this be chosen sport, that this can be quite a distressing thing . yeah, indeed. >> and that's certainly the case for british women for all the british women who were with the prospect of were faced with the prospect of losing their place the gb losing their place in the gb team because young team because a young male had decided that that's where he wanted to be. so i think that there's no doubt that it's very distressing. if you've put your life and soul into training for sport someone male sport and then someone male comes along thinks that they

comes along and thinks that they can displace you from your team, very to itv , emily >> now, speaking to itv, emily bridges said following ban bridges said the following a ban is a ban. you can say you can compete in the open category, but women. should but we're women. we should be able the women's able to race in the women's category. it's incredibly category. it's an incredibly scary be trans. at the scary time to be trans. at the moment you leave the house and you're thinking, i'm not going to someone to come home because someone doesn't it seems doesn't like who i am. it seems to that people are to me, fiona, that people are different different different using different definitions woman. different using different de1for:ions woman. different using different de1for:ions of woman. different using different de1for:ions of us, woman. different using different de1for:ions of us, it's woman. different using different de1for:ions of us, it's awoman. so for 99% of us, it's a biological category. certain biological category. for certain activists, an identity activists, it's an identity category. am i reading that right, do you think? >> i think you're exactly right. but i think sad that but i think it's very sad that bndges but i think it's very sad that bridges would say those things, because is a very because this is a very safe country your country to live in. if your trans identifying, i'm not aware of problems that of any particular problems that that bridges has faced and it's frightens young people to tell them that they could be under attack for their identity. i really think that's the case. >> now. a fair play for women has just produced report. has just produced this report. how in sports how inclusion in sports is harming and girls. there harming women and girls. there it is right there . this is it is right there. this is available to download from the fair play for women website. this broadens out. is

this broadens this out. this is not just about emily bridges. this principle this is about the principle isn't it? could tell us a isn't it? could you tell us a bit this report? isn't it? could you tell us a bit yeah. this report? isn't it? could you tell us a bit yeah. sos report? isn't it? could you tell us a bit yeah. so we port? isn't it? could you tell us a bit yeah. so we wanted to collate >> yeah. so we wanted to collate the evidence to say this is not just a few, as you say, a few examples like emily bridges and we know that people are afraid to talk about it. they've been silenced. been silenced. women have been threatened that they'd be dropped or dropped from their team or kicked out of their club. and in fact, and so fact, that has happened. and so we've collating personal we've been collating personal testimony dozens and dozens testimony from dozens and dozens of women and girls across 25 different sports. and that's what's in our report. and we're making case that if you have making the case that if you have a male female category in a male and female category in your you've done for your sport, you've done that for a that sex a reason. you know that sex matters sport . and if that's matters in sport. and if that's the case, then the female category has to for be those born female. otherwise you've got categories and got two men's categories and that's that's not fair. just to come back to the human rights point. it wouldn't a bad point. so it wouldn't be a bad thing if emily bridges took the point. so it wouldn't be a bad thingto emily bridges took the point. so it wouldn't be a bad thingto the ly bridges took the point. so it wouldn't be a bad thingto the european; took the point. so it wouldn't be a bad thingto the european court the point. so it wouldn't be a bad thingto the european court of; case to the european court of human rights, because there is no to choose what no human right to choose what category go into in sport. category you go into in sport. you isn't even a you know, uh, there isn't even a human right to sport, but there

are laws, international laws against sex discrimination. and so i wouldn't be unhappy to see that tested court. that being tested in court. >> course, lot of this >> and of course, a lot of this is fairness, lot of is about fairness, but a lot of your critics would say, but, you know, isn't an epidemic of know, there isn't an epidemic of trans winning the trans athletes winning all the medals. what do you medals. what do you what do you say that? medals. what do you what do you saywell, at? of us win >> well, most of us don't win medals. we? mean, there are medals. do we? i mean, there are 18 women and girls in 18 million women and girls in the uk doing sports. mostly. we don't we all for don't win, but we all hope for fair um, and if fair competition. um, and if there is a male, then they're going to be 10% faster. they're going to be 10% faster. they're going to be 30 to 50% stronger for and we know already that young women and girls are being put off because because they feel it's not fair. put off because because they feel it's not fair . sometimes feel it's not fair. sometimes it's not safe. we've seen some huge problems in football with safety . just one trans safety. just one trans identifying male player can create safety risks . and it's create safety risks. and it's not necessarily their fault, except that they're there, but they create safety problems they can create safety problems for the other women in in, for all the other women in in, in the team. so it's a big problem. >> and fiona am i right in thinking a lot of girls are a bit nervous to speak out about this, they feel that it

this, even if they feel that it is. unjust because of is. it is unjust because of the stigma. see stigma. you know, they see people transphobe people called transphobe and bigot right just for bigot and far right just for raising these concerns. am i right about that? raising these concerns. am i rigiyou'reit that? raising these concerns. am i rigiyou're right:? that. and >> you're right about that. and in sports councils in fact, the sports councils produced report on this in produced a report on this in 2021 when they put out their new guidance that it is not guidance saying that it is not possible to balance trans inclusion in the female category with fairness and safety for women and girls, they they reported then how people talk to them in fear . so these are them in fear. so these are independent consultants appointed by the sports councils of great britain. and they found in interviews that people were crying . they were afraid they crying. they were afraid they would only speak if they were guaranteed anonymity because they were afraid of losing they were so afraid of losing their or losing their place their jobs or losing their place in a team. >> and as you say, it's not just about fairness. it's there's physical consider physical safety to consider here, there? here, isn't there? >> yes. >> yes. >> mean, sports, um, >> i mean, in some sports, um, particularly team sports, football, , ice hockey, football, cricket, ice hockey, you can get really badly hurt. and the sheer physicality of a male means that, um, for example , in football, people have told us they just they can't even

tackle a man when they're playing football because he's just shrug them off and they just shrug them off and they just end up afraid of being hurt. yes. so rugby made fair rules for couple of years rules for this a couple of years ago world level, the uk rugby ago at world level, the uk rugby federations didn't catch up until one year ago even. they finally saw sense and now we're slowly seeing we're seeing other sports catch up. but a lot of them are afraid of being sued. and bridges making and that's why bridges is making this think because this threat. i think because people really don't want the time and distraction of time and the distraction of having to court. having to go to court. >> i mean, a lot of people were watching this thinking how did we seems we get to this point? it seems like brainer that obviously like a no brainer that obviously we by biological like a no brainer that obviously we and by biological like a no brainer that obviously we and that by biological like a no brainer that obviously we and that by lstayjical like a no brainer that obviously we and that by lstay that sex, and that should stay that way. do you think this has happened? >> well, i there was guidance from the sports councils previously that said basically there were not many trans identifying people and so they should accommodated they should be accommodated and they made without made those rules without thinking properly the thinking properly about the impact on women girls, impact on women and girls, because, you know, as we know, one male impacts a lot of women and seeing the and girls. we're seeing the pendulum back, swing pendulum swing back, swing back now. i think there's still

now. but i think there's still a lot of fear about being called names, being called bigoted , and names, being called bigoted, and there's a lot of pressure on girls, kind , girls, particularly to be kind, to be accommodating, to make way. you know, and, and, you know, bridges cycled in the, in the men's team . um, those guys the men's team. um, those guys were quite happy with bridges as a team—mate. that's how it should all trans should be for all trans identifying absolutely identifying males. absolutely >> it doesn't >> it's funny because it doesn't seem kind for him to seem very kind for him to compete against don't compete against women who don't stand compete against women who don't sta|well, i totally agree with >> well, i totally agree with you there. >> right. >> right. >> well, can you just finally, fiona, us where we fiona, tell us just where can we find more information fair find more information about fair play find more information about fair play report? play for women and this report? >> play women.com. >> so fair play for women.com. >> so fair play for women.com. >> download a pdf of >> and you can download a pdf of the would the report. and i would encourage people it to encourage people to send it to their send it to their sport their mp, send it to their sport governing body. if they are involved in sport. governing body. if they are inv fiona. thanks so much for joining me. really appreciate it. you. there's it. pleasure. thank you. there's plenty still to come on free speech nation tonight, including the teacher who won over a j.k. rowling critic and her reflections on a chaotic week in the house of commons. but next up, i'm going to be rejoined by my panel for more questions from

our lovely studio audience. that's devlin and paul that's bruce devlin and paul cox, so please don't go anywhere i >> -- >>a >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello there. i'm jonathan vautrey here of your gb news weather forecast provided by the met office. fabric is continuing on its reasonably unsettled picture , and it has been a very picture, and it has been a very wet to weekend many wet end to the weekend for many southern of england. we've southern areas of england. we've got band rain continuing got this band of rain continuing to eastwards, to sweep its way eastwards, particularly for south eastern england, the england, overnight and into the early hours of tomorrow morning. some rainfall some very persistent rainfall could disruption could provide some disruption and localised in and localised flooding in places. do continue to places. so do continue to take care further north. there will be clear overnight , be some clear spells overnight, some showers falling on frozen surfaces patchy surfaces where we see patchy frost across parts frost developing across parts of scotland, see scotland, so we might see some icy stretches thing icy stretches first thing on monday morning . otherwise there monday morning. otherwise there will some sunny intervals for will be some sunny intervals for

many but this rain the many of us, but this rain in the far southeast just take a far southeast will just take a little of eventually little bit of time to eventually clear quite a brisk clear its way off. quite a brisk north breeze coming north easterly breeze coming in off north is going off the north sea and is going to feel quite cold and to make it feel quite cold and crisp. some showers just filtering for north filtering in on that for north eastern england eastern eastern england and eastern scotland well. temperatures scotland as well. temperatures will we'd expect will be around where we'd expect them of year. them to be for the time of year. but i said, that cold breeze but as i said, that cold breeze could certainly feel could certainly make it feel a little into tuesday . little bit bitter into tuesday. this ridge of high pressure that has brought fine has brought us the fine conditions monday slowly conditions on monday will slowly slip southwards, slip its way southwards, allowing this cold front to then move way in from the move its way in from the north—west. increasingly north—west. so increasingly turning for turning wet and windy for scotland and northern ireland. first that first thing, we'll watch as that front its way front slowly pushes its way south during the day south eastwards during the day it tend fizzle out, it will tend to fizzle out, turning lighter patchier, so turning lighter and patchier, so certainly south—east turning lighter and patchier, so certtstay south—east turning lighter and patchier, so certtstay dry south—east turning lighter and patchier, so certtstay dry for south—east turning lighter and patchier, so certtstay dry for a)uth—east turning lighter and patchier, so certtstay dry for a good east turning lighter and patchier, so certtstay dry for a good portion will stay dry for a good portion of day. we continue to see of the day. we continue to see though further bands of rain and showers moving their way in throughout the second half of the enjoy the rest of the week, but enjoy the rest of your by warm your evening by that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on .

gb news way. and there's plenty more still to come on free speech nafion still to come on free speech nation this week, including the teacher who went viral with a critical thinking masterclass , critical thinking masterclass, plus some unfiltered dilemmas and some more audience questions i >> -- >> but let's get a news update first from tatiana sanchez . first from tatiana sanchez. >> andrew, thank you very much. your top stories from the gb newsroom. labour is demanding assurances that suspended tory mp lee anderson will not have the whip returned today . the the whip returned today. the former deputy chair still refused to apologise for saying the london mayor was controlled by islamists. the london mayor was controlled by islamists . shadow cabinet by islamists. shadow cabinet office minister jonathan office ministerjonathan ashworth has written to the prime minister to confirm he won't be allowed back into the party. deputy prime minister oliver dowden says it was right to remove the whip from mr

anderson . anderson. >> i do not believe that lee anderson is an islamophobe, but words matter and the choice of words matter and the choice of words that he used , the choice words that he used, the choice of words that he used, was not appropriate . he was given the appropriate. he was given the opportunity to apologise . lies opportunity to apologise. lies didn't take that opportunity and therefore the chief whip took therefore the chief whip took the decision to remove the whip from him . from him. >> another debate on gaza will be held in the commons after the chaotic vote on wednesday . the chaotic vote on wednesday. the snp says it will take up the speaken snp says it will take up the speaker, sir lindsay hoyle, offer of a meaningful debate on a new ceasefire motion. there was uproar after he allowed mps to vote on a labour amendment leading to calls for his resignation. snp westminster leader stephen flynn says his party will seek to move the debate forward. that will push parliament to support what he describes as concrete actions migrants have been intercepted trying to cross the channel for the first time in one week. 290 people were found on six small boats. today, they were taken to

the border force processing centre in dover. the latest arrivals mean more than 2000 migrants have crossed the channel so far this year. a local action group has won its fight over plans to house asylum seekers in cumbria , despite a seekers in cumbria, despite a severe housing shortage in the milan area. eight properties were earmarked for 40 migrants. it sparked backlash in the community, with police forced to increase patrols after one house was vandalised . in a letter seen was vandalised. in a letter seen by gb news, the home office has now ruled that the site is not fit for asylum seekers. dean myers , from millom communication myers, from millom communication action group, told us it's a huge relief . huge relief. >> the community has just been totally confused. we didn't know who was actually coming into the hmos. no one consulted us and it just sparked a bit of anger. i think . think. >> and long serving conservative mp lord cormack has died at the age of 84. he served as an mp

from 1970 to 2010, was elected ten times, most recently for the constituency of south staffordshire. the archbishop of canterbury, justin welby, described him as a vivid character who was unfailingly kind . and for the latest stories kind. and for the latest stories , you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen. or you can go to gb news. carmelites . gb news. carmelites. >> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me , andrew doyle. nation with me, andrew doyle. >> so let's get some more questions from our lovely studio audience here. our first question comes david, where question comes from david, where is david? david. hi. is david? hi, david. hi. >> evening, andrew. >> evening, andrew. >> the met police said no offence had committed by offence had been committed by project seeing the onto parliament. the anti semitic trope from the river to the sea as it depended on context . do as it depended on context. do you have any idea what context

that might be? >> okay, so we saw images circulating on social media, protesters projecting the phrase from the river to the sea onto the side of big ben. i don't know if we've got the imagery, but if we have, we'll certainly show it. um, paul, what do you make of this? because obviously the river to the make of this? because obviously the is river to the make of this? because obviously the is one, river to the make of this? because obviously the is one, as river to the make of this? because obviously the is one, as we river to the make of this? because obviously the is one, as we can ver to the make of this? because obviously the is one, as we can see to the make of this? because obviously the is one, as we can see on:he make of this? because obviously the is one, as we can see on the sea is one, as we can see on the screen right now, is one that is interpreted widely as being anti semitic, kind of for semitic, a kind of call for genocide semitic, a kind of call for gerwell, the reason is, is >> well, the reason is, is because it's from the river jordan mediterranean sea. jordan to the mediterranean sea. >> would you already >> and it would you already know more of the people more than a lot of the people saying more than a lot of the people sayyeah maybe. more than a lot of the people sayyeah.maybe. more than a lot of the people sayyeah. and)e. more than a lot of the people sayyeah. and they're saying >> yeah. and they're saying within that space, if you can imagine it, there is no for space jewish people who already live there, by the so, so live there, by the way. so, so the chant is saying, all of the people that space people living in that space should that they claim. >> it's not saying that. so the protesters say what they're talking peace and talking about is peace and equality people and equality forjewish people and muslim people throughout the area . but of course, if, if, uh, area. but of course, if, if, uh, if hamas is in charge, it's probably not to happen, is it? >> no, it's just so naive. yeah. okay and it adds heat to the

debate as well. there's no i mean, they are not projecting that onto big ben to calm things down. they are doing that in order to provoke more reaction. yes. and sadly, as much as they love protesting, none of those protests are going to help anyone whatsoever. let's just say they all win and parliament go. you all win. we agree to a ceasefire. what we're going to do , turn around to hamas and do, turn around to hamas and israel and say, there you go. and they're going to go. we didn't even know what you're on about. see you later. i don't think hamas or the israeli government care what the uk, of course, they say about this. >> hamas have said >> but also hamas have said explicitly to do explicitly they're going to do october over and over october the 7th over and over again. they're committed to again. so they're committed to genocide. let's be honest. that's what they've said. >> they have that >> they have said that explicitly. know, explicitly. yeah. so, you know, uh, bruce? uh, any thoughts, bruce? >> understand twitch. >> why don't understand twitch. that's bit of a theme for that's a bit of a theme for tonight is if you're not allowed tonight is if you're not allowed to say it, why are you allowed to project it? >> so the question are >> so the question you are allowed now this is this allowed to say now this is this is people is one thing a lot of people have said should be arresting have said we should be arresting

people the phrase have said we should be arresting peop the the phrase have said we should be arresting peop the river the phrase have said we should be arresting peop the river to the phrase have said we should be arresting peop the river to the sea. ase have said we should be arresting peop the river to the sea. i'm from the river to the sea. i'm a free speech advocate. i don't from the river to the sea. i'm a free s|with1 advocate. i don't from the river to the sea. i'm a free s|with that.ycate. i don't from the river to the sea. i'm a free s|with that. late. i don't from the river to the sea. i'm a free s|with that. i think don't from the river to the sea. i'm a free s|with that. i think ityn't from the river to the sea. i'm a free s|with that. i think it ist agree with that. i think it is an inflammatory phrase. i think people should be criticised for saying it. i'm for saying it. i'm all for counter—protests, but i really draw the line at arresting people for it, that's people for saying it, and that's just this. but you just my view on this. but you might a different i might take a different view. i don't is inflammatory don't know, it is inflammatory though, it? mean, don't know, it is inflammatory thclearly it? mean, don't know, it is inflammatory thclearly is. it? mean, it clearly is. >> yeah. ah, but yeah, but the question then comes down to the legality of it. legality of saying it. >> yeah. i totally agree legality of saying it. >> yyou. i totally agree legality of saying it. >> yyou. i'm i totally agree legality of saying it. >> yyou. i'm alsoally agree legality of saying it. >> yyou. i'm also a.y agree legality of saying it. >> yyou. i'm also a free ree legality of saying it. >> yyou. i'm also a free speech with you. i'm also a free speech advocate. be allowed advocate. you should be allowed to this. my would to hear this. my point would be the honest. so the debate should be honest. so on we should be on both sides we should be honest it. you can't just honest about it. you can't just you can't just say you can't call everybody else racist . and call everybody else racist. and then say something as then when you say something as equally meaning equally bad, change the meaning to suit you, okay. >> yeah . that seems to be one of >> yeah. that seems to be one of >> problems: seems to be one of >> yeah. that seems to be one of >> problems here.1s to be one of >> yeah. that seems to be one of >> problems here. okay. e one of >> yeah. that seems to be one of >> problems here. okay. we've of >> yeah. that seems to be one of >> a'oblems here. okay. we've of >> yeah. that seems to be one of >> a question|ere. okay. we've of >> yeah. that seems to be one of >> a question from )kay. we've of >> yeah. that seems to be one of >> a question from catherine.aof got a question from catherine. hi, catherine. hello. >> andrew. why is the bbc >> hi, andrew. why is the bbc promoting male breastfeeding ? promoting male breastfeeding? >> a very good question. i wrote an article about this on my substack this week because i found this quite incredible . um, found this quite incredible. um, there was effectively a letter from the university of sussex

hospitals trust and this, this letter emerged which suggested that men who take drugs after transitional surgery to stimulate lactation are able to produce milk that is comparable to that produced of a mother. and then the bbc invited , uh, and then the bbc invited, uh, kate luxton, who is an an activist and research fellow at university college london. uh, she's called a lactation consultant trainee this is what, uh, luxian had to say on the interview. >> and when we look at the research that's been done specifically about trans women, um, there's a case study that was done and published last year where they actually found that the nutritional value was either at or above the nutritional value of. then the meta analysis referenced that it used . so referenced that it used. so using the example of kind of a larger sample of what we look for in breast milk , it was seen for in breast milk, it was seen to be at least if not higher quality . quality. >> now, if anyone's confused about this, uh, you're not alone

. uh, there's a really good article about this on substack by someone called millie hill, who? she's been on this show before, and she really breaks down, uh, the flaws with all of this and the fact that the bbc should challenged should have challenged this because lux their is because, um, lux in their is just alluding to one particular study just one study which involved just one trans identifying male. and that's all that this is based on. now, bear in mind that women who are pregnant are told, you know, they're not to smoke. they're not drink. they're they're not to drink. they're not spicy food. but not even to eat spicy food. but apparently administer , apparently you can administer, uh, milk been produced uh, milk that has been produced artificially through drugs to a baby, even though the manufacturer of that drug that stimulates lactation has said there is risk of heart trouble to the baby. so what? they're effectively doing, paul, i think, they're prioritising think, is they're prioritising the trans, the feelings of trans, identifying individuals over the health of a baby. that's how far this has gone. >> yeah. so if you take if you take it right back to the beginning, the intentions are probably good. what you've got is person wants to is a trans person who wants to simulate okay. and simulate motherhood, okay. and they they've managed to get hold

of a baby. we don't know how, but they've got one. and the and they want to be able to breastfeed this baby. up to this point kind of on when point i'm kind of on board when they well know , i'm they talk. well you know, i'm not board, i get not entirely on board, but i get where they're coming from when they talking about it they start talking about it being i'm off board they start talking about it being they i'm off board they start talking about it being they start i'm off board they start talking about it being they start saying off board they start talking about it being they start saying itf board they start talking about it being they start saying it isyoard when they start saying it is better some way. i want to better in some way. i want to know if their mental health is okay. >> i mean, it's just definitely it's clearly not right. you know, is dangerous. know, this is dangerous. >> so whole is >> so the whole thing is simulated. you have breast simulated. you have breast simulated , uh, taking simulated through, uh, taking drugs your your breast drugs for your your breast tissue to grow as a man. and then you take drugs to simulate , then you take drugs to simulate, um, lactation, and then you take drugs to turn that simulated lactation into something that might be, um, edible by a baby. and you're thinking, well, why don't you just give baby don't you just give it baby formula ? formula? >> this is my point about this. because you know, i'm because i'm, you know, i'm a liberal. i believe should liberal. i believe anyone should be whatever want be able to do whatever they want with their bodies. i think if you want transition, you you want to transition, you should to do that. you should be able to do that. you should be able to do that. you should be able to do that. you should be able to have the surgery but this is surgery you want, but this is a baby isn't making these baby who isn't making these choices and endangering

choices and you're endangering that choices and you're endangering tha i if that is the case, >> i mean, if that is the case, the babies are being harmed. then someone has to look into it. as we are always told, it. and as we are always told, it's organic. it's better to buy organic. >> yeah, that as well. >> of course, this is just but i have this is part of have to say this is part of a broader trend because and i mentioned this on the show last week, research week, that there was a research team sociologists year team of sociologists last year who a million who are paid half a million pounds a subsidiary a non pounds by a subsidiary of a non departmental public of the departmental public body of the british and they were british government and they were recommending changes to the nhs guidelines. are recommending changes to the nhs guirmedically are recommending changes to the nhs guirmedically qualified are recommending changes to the nhs guirmedically qualified by are recommending changes to the nhs guirmedically qualified by the are not medically qualified by the way, were that way, and they were saying that mothers identify as male mothers who identify as male should taking should carry on taking testosterone should carry on taking testosteror because their sense of pregnancy because their sense of gender be gender identity should be prioritised over the baby . and prioritised over the baby. and they actually said it should be prioritised over normal foetal outcomes. in other words, a baby who is born deformed as a result shouldn't matter so much as the feelings of the trans identified individual who is the parent. that's what we're dealing with here, right? and that is a that is a group that a sociology. it's not medics. that activist on bbc are not medically on the bbc are not medically qualified. right >> employed as a comedian

>> so i'm employed as a comedian and can't anything amusing and i can't say anything amusing about you were talking about this. as you were talking then, my, my stomach turned the, then, my, my stomach turned the, the whole idea that you could take the health of the baby and throw it in the bin and entirely dismiss it for what is essentially a vanity project on the outside, is an abomination . the outside, is an abomination. >> okay, well, we're going to move on now to a question from tim. where is tim? hi, tim. >> um, is the cost of living crisis saving marriages okay, so divorces have hit their lowest level since 1971. >> uh , i mean, tim, can i ask >> uh, i mean, tim, can i ask you, are you suggesting that they. that is the case, that actually the cost of living crisis is making us stay together? >> uh, no, i'm not suggesting anything because my wife's sitting next to me, so . so sitting next to me, so. so that's a very good answer. >> uh , what do you think of this >> uh, what do you think of this one, bruce? do you think this is likely? i mean, it's good news, isn't it? >> i think it is more than likely, because of likely, because most of the people i know are

people that i know that are married hate each other, but they want to compromise they don't want to compromise their living. right? they don't want to compromise their that's living. right? they don't want to compromise their that's true..iving. right? they don't want to compromise their that's true. no,g. right? they don't want to compromise their that's true. no, it's ght? yeah. that's true. no, it's true. of have true. and a lot of them have just had extensions. i've been reading diary, know, reading my diary, you know, dunng during the lockdown a lot divorce up because divorce rate went up because of course, married course, a lot of married couples, they sort depend on couples, they sort of depend on a bit of space. >> if you have to spend all your time you have to time with someone, you have to think couples think about the married couples that having that were actively having affairs weren't able to do affairs and weren't able to do that during lockdown. affairs and weren't able to do that durin are ckdown. affairs and weren't able to do that durin are ckd(real victims. >> those are the real victims. that's what brought the marriages to a head. >> yeah, right. but >> yeah, yeah, that's right. but it good thing, isn't it? it is a good thing, isn't it? >> know that divorces aren't >> you know that divorces aren't happening as much. maybe probably if you if you read the full are full story, the statistics are that marriage more that a marriage is much more likely to last 13 now. likely to last 13 years now. >> point they're >> so at some point they're going to get divorced. >> great. they just >> they're just great. they just they choose 2023. >> they're just great. they just the and choose 2023. >> they're just great. they just the and reason ose 2023. >> they're just great. they just the and reason 2023023. >> they're just great. they just the and reason 2023 figures >> and the reason 2023 figures look is because nobody look better is because nobody could 2020. only could get divorced in 2020. only some in 2021. some could get divorced in 2021. and filtered out to a and it just filtered out to a point. it's all about statistics i >> -- >> but is 5mm >> but is this what is this what they like, they do now in marriage? like, do up and say, i take do you go up and say, i take this woman to have and to hold for because, for 13 years because, because i think, if you're think, i think if you're sensible and honest, yeah, you should that. should do that. >> i two friends that are

>> i have two friends that are currently divorced. currently getting divorced. right. and the sticking point, i kid they're fighting right. and the sticking point, i kid avios they're fighting right. and the sticking point, i kid avios thynectarjhting right. and the sticking point, i kid avios thynectar points, over avios and nectar points, which i think is brilliant. right? >> are you gonna get a judge? >> are you gonna get a judge? >> nine of them from a budget because of them to me, because one of them said to me, do something? i've even do you know something? i've even downgraded delivery downgraded the wine delivery because and because i'm economising and the seriously , are making this seriously, are you making this up? no , they're called kevin up? no, no, they're called kevin and brian. can't believe you and brian. i can't believe you actually named them. >> there you >> yeah, there you go. >> yeah, there you go. >> got no discretion. >> it's got no discretion. >> it's got no discretion. >> so the lesson here, don't be friends with bruce devlin because he will humiliate you on live let's get live tv. okay? let's get a question from luke. question now from luke. >> luke? question now from luke. >> andrew. .e? question now from luke. >> andrew. is the art of >> hi, andrew. is the art of small talk dying out? yeah apparently, uh, about 49% of british adults avoid engaging with strangers because they don't want small talk. >> uh, i mean, i think , luke, do >> uh, i mean, i think, luke, do you think. are you good? are you a good small talker? >> be, yes, but >> i tend to be, yes, but i think the problem is a lot of people they don't even people just. they don't even talk on street talk to each other on the street anymore. it'sjust talk to each other on the street anymore. it's just heads down on their and it. their phone and. and ignore it. >> that's absolutely >> no, that's absolutely right. i of people are i think a lot of people are terrified. do you find this bruce like. mean, you're bruce like. i mean, you're obviously down

obviously you come down from scotland, in scotland, but when you're in london, when you're on the tube, no at other. no one's looking at each other. they're not talking they're certainly not talking to each is not each other. small talk is not a thing that we do down here. >> that's true on the >> well, that's not true on the elizabeth but i'm not elizabeth line, but i'm not prepared go into story prepared to go into that story because legal because it's currently a legal case. that's true. case. i'm i know that's true. actually it's to do with ba actually it's to do with the ba flight. talk later. flight. we'll talk later. anyway, there are other airlines. talking airlines. no, we were talking about very good about that that we're very good at but i don't at small talk, but i don't really want to speak to anyone. i'm like, leave i'm not interested. like, leave me i don't want talk to >> i don't want to talk to strangers about nothing. no. >> what they to >> well, what can they do to help me? that's why i was booked first on train. first class on the train. because get seat to because you get a seat to yourself. other approach. >> well, the other approach. i don't hurt. yeah, but don't get hurt. yeah, but the other. other approach, of other. the other approach, of course, go full on course, is that you go full on when meet strangers with course, is that you go full on wheiof meet strangers with course, is that you go full on wheiof deepaet strangers with course, is that you go full on wheiof deep metaphysicalivith discussions. >> absolutely. discussions. >> as absolutely. discussions. >> as they're itely. discussions. >> as they're coming down the bus. middle of the bus. bus. yeah. middle of the bus. you the seat you go, come here, tap the seat next then start next to you and then start talking about. yeah. then talking to about. yeah. then just immediately talking just start immediately talking about ideology. about trans ideology. >> way to >> that's a good way to guarantee own guarantee your own seat. >> i don't it's about >> i don't think it's about small. don't think it's small. i really don't think it's about talk. no. because about small talk. no. because i can small talk till the cows come i don't want

come home. but i don't want to do you it depends on do it, you know, it depends on the um if none us the situation. um if none of us know here, i don't know each other here, i don't think we do. afterwards um, don't now. that's don't talk to me now. that's not. i mean, i mean, afterwards, if were to chat. that's if we were to chat. that's great. environment's great. this environment's fine, you have chat. but you know? let's have a chat. but if on the bus or if it's if it's on the bus or you're just walking or you're just walking to work or whatever be, well, whatever it might be, well, leave me alone. >> can't be bothered. >> you just can't be bothered. >> you just can't be bothered. >> sometimes you're knackered or hung not speaking hung over. i mean, not speaking personally, what? personally, but, you know what? >> depressed. >> a wee bit depressed. >> a wee bit depressed. >> you don't want >> depressed and you don't want to comes as to hear and it comes across as rude, doesn't it? >> no, that's thing. >> no, but that's the thing. because someone says to me, because if someone says to me, how and i'm how are you? and i say, i'm really depressed. we've lost a lot people in the family lot of people in the family recently, know recently, and i don't know if i can cope. they don't want to talk you after that. that's a talk to you after that. that's a really of deflecting it. >> okay, well, let's get one more question this section more question in this section from, where's jen? from, uh, jen, where's jen? >> hello, angie. should the >> hello, angie. uh, should the world's its world's oldest dog have lost its title? >> i feel really bad for this dog. i. no, i should dog. this i. no, no, i should say, way, the dog isn't say, by the way, the dog isn't alive, the dog alive, right? the dog. the dog isn't anymore. so the isn't alive anymore. so the dog doesn't that it's its doesn't know that it's lost its title. a dog who title. but this is a dog who was, according the guinness title. but this is a dog who was, arecords, the guinness title. but this is a dog who was, a records, the 1e guinness title. but this is a dog who was, a records, the oldest|ness world records, the oldest dog. it was called bo bobby. and, um.

>> there's an image the >> but there's an image of the dog and bobby a century dog and bobby broke a century old record , become the record old record, become the record holder . holder. >> oldest dog. uh, because he was 30. but then apparently this is a portuguese dog, and apparently they've looked into it and they don't have sufficient evidence to say that bobby was 30. so they've stripped the dog of the. it strikes me as cruel. >> well , there is that. there's >> well, there is that. there's also how time do you have also how much time do you have on your investigate on your hands to investigate a dead no offence to the dog. dead dog? no offence to the dog. and lie about their age and people lie about their age all time. drag race all the time. i watch drag race regularly. people are sent home just that. why just saying that. so why shouldn't translate shouldn't it translate to the canine world? >> at least the dog >> i mean, at least the dog doesn't realise it's its doesn't realise it's lost its record because have record because it didn't have this clear. >> didn't had the >> it didn't know it had the record. there >> no, you don't know that. >> no, you don't know that. >> so no point was bobby. >> so at no point was bobby. bobby, rest in peace . did it bobby, rest in peace. did it ever was it ever concerned by this record. this was purely for the owners. and of course, this is the guinness book of record. the that worries me now, the thing that worries me now, when the story, is when you read the story, is they're going take off they're going to take bits off they're going to take bits off

the dog measure, like they're the to dog measure, like they're going to carbon the bloody going to carbon date the bloody thing. it thing. they're going to cut it in count the rings. in half and count the rings. >> yes, it's interesting because in half and count the rings. >> discussediteresting because in half and count the rings. >> discussed this sting because in half and count the rings. >> discussed this stingother use we discussed this the other night headlines. we discussed this the other nig what headlines. we discussed this the other nig what occursies. we discussed this the other nig what occurs to. we discussed this the other nig what occurs to me we discussed this the other nigwhat occurs to me is we discussed this the other nig what occurs to me is we're >> what occurs to me is we're spending lot of time spending an awful lot of time discussing this dead dog. >> i mean, maybe >> yeah. i mean, maybe we shouldn't bothered. >> yeah. i mean, maybe we shoanyway, bothered. >> yeah. i mean, maybe we shoanyway, nextothered. >> yeah. i mean, maybe we shoanyway, next on ered. >> yeah. i mean, maybe we shoanyway, next on free speech >> anyway, next on free speech nation. is parliament being dictated the dictated to by the mob. the house of commons into house of commons descends into chaos week, and journalist chaos this week, and journalist ross joining me to ross clark will be joining me to analyse fallout. don't go analyse the fallout. don't go anywhere .

>> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> welcome back to free speech nation. the speaker of the house of commons, sir lindsay hoyle, broke with parliamentary convention this week by accepting a labour amendment on an snp vote calling for a ceasefire in gaza , and the ceasefire in gaza, and the decision led to chaotic scenes in westminster as mps left the chamber rather than voting . chamber rather than voting. hoyle said he made the unprecedented move due to concerns that mps might be physically attacked if he

didn't. let's a listen . didn't. let's have a listen. >> i will defend every member in this house. every member matters to me in this house and it has been said , yes, sir. both sides . been said, yes, sir. both sides. ineven been said, yes, sir. both sides. i never, ever want to go through a situation where i pick up a phone to find a friend of whatever side has been murdered by terrorist and author and journalist ross clark has been writing about this story, and he joins me now . joins me now. >> ross, thanks very much for joining me on free speech nation . hi ross. can you hear me? >> i can hear you. yes. can you hear me? >> ross, can i ask you first? >> ross, can i ask you first? >> before we begin? i just want to ask about this issue of potential collusion here. um, there accusations there have been accusations or suggestions keir starmer suggestions that keir starmer was had had been told that he would need to fix the speaker. in other words, he went in and had a bit of a showdown with lindsay and end of lindsay hoyle and at the end of it occurred. do you think

it this occurred. do you think that there are there are discussions to about discussions to be had about whether or not starmer put pressure on the speaker here? >> well, if that's what did happen , i mean, the person happen, i mean, the person should be resigning is not sir lindsay hoyle, but yes, starmer. um if keir starmer really did nobble the speaker in that way and i'm not sure that he did, but, um, if he did, then he's the one who should be resigning, not sir lindsay hoyle . not sir lindsay hoyle. >> well, okay. well that's perhaps one issue, but then there's also the issue of what lindsay hoyle said in that that apology speech, which is that there was a risk of actual threats against mps. is it the case that the speaker of the house should be changing parliamentary convention on the bafis parliamentary convention on the basis of threats ? basis of threats? >> no. he absolutely should not. i mean, we have robust democracy , um, democratic debate in this country. it gets heated sometimes. but what we don't do is, um, take our cue from

bullies and thugs and terrorists. and if , bullies and thugs and terrorists. and if, um, sir lindsay hoyle really did sort of change the parliamentary debate in relate to threats by, um, you know, people who are threatening mps, then that is a very serious matter . of course, some, mps, then that is a very serious matter. of course, some, you know , the whoever's i mean , he know, the whoever's i mean, he was a bit sort of, um, you know, a bit sort of, uh, avoiding the sort of, uh, didn't tell us exactly very much of it sort of veiled in his of accusations of, you know , he said threats have you know, he said threats have been put against mps. he didn't say who by and what they consist of, but we know that, um, you know, mobs have been gathering outside 1 or 2 mps houses and sort of demanding that they sort of vote for or call for an unconditional ceasefire in gaza. and i mean, that is totally unacceptable behaviour in a democracy. we can, you know, if you want to protest protests outside parliament, not outside mps houses. and, um, if lindsay hoyle really did say that , um,

hoyle really did say that, um, react to those threats and by, um , re—organising a debate um, re—organising a debate breaking with some parliamentary convention, then. well, that's an extremely sad day and extremely concerning . i mean, if extremely concerning. i mean, if mps need greater security , then mps need greater security, then they should have greater security . but ah, no, never security. but ah, no, never should should, um, thugs, terrorists or anybody else dictate what um, mps can talk aboutin dictate what um, mps can talk about in the commons ? about in the commons? >> can i ask you, ross, about the vagueness of the language? it looks like the word he was failing to use was islamist, that he alluded to the death of david uh, and obviously david amess. uh, and obviously that was a man who was killed by an isis sympathiser. after an isis sympathiser. but after david amess death, we had parliament just debating about whether down on whether we should crack down on mean online rather than mean tweets online rather than addressing the obvious issue thatis addressing the obvious issue that is right in front of our face, that the problem here? face, is that the problem here? >> well, it was very much a problem with sir david amess death. >> he, you know, for a few weeks we were sort of led to believe that it some of random that it was some sort of random individual who'd been, uh, worked up into a frenzy by, you

know , normal stuff being talked know, normal stuff being talked about on twitter and, um, no, it turned out that he was an islamist terrorist . and, um, you islamist terrorist. and, um, you know, when, um, joe cox was sadly murdered, the labour mp murdered in her yorkshire constituency. i mean, it nobody had any trouble within hours of saying this was a murder by a right wing extremist and we had a huge debate and, um. oh, you know, it was sort of blamed on the sort of brexit debate, things people had said in the brexit debate. um well, with the david amess case, that was all sort of, you know, the sort of true nature of that , um, that true nature of that, um, that crime was covered up. i mean, it was eventually aired in, in the court case and the guy was jailed, but, um , you know, we jailed, but, um, you know, we should we should be treating things evenly here. and, um , i things evenly here. and, um, i think you get this idea from the prevent program as well. the prevent program as well. the prevent program as well. the prevent program was set up to deal principally to deal with islamist terrorism. and over the

years, it sort of slightly changed its emphasis and sort of focusing now on the far right. well, you know, there are people on the far right who are a threat, but, um, they are not in the same league as the sort of islamist threat that we've been facing ever since the. well, since the london tube bombings in 2005 and the sort of numerous attacks we've had since then . attacks we've had since then. >> so is it a case that the politicians and the political class generally is just too intimidated to talk openly about this problem , or is it the case this problem, or is it the case that it could be a kind of soft form of racism ? you know, this form of racism? you know, this idea that they see the islamic community as uniquely combustible and they better not say anything about this, because that strikes me as very patronising thing. uh, to the vast majority british vast majority of british muslims who abhor this kind of who also abhor this kind of violence . violence. >> well, well, absolutely. >> well, well, absolutely. >> i think there's an element of that. and of you know, that. and of course, you know, one must absolutely distinguish between islamists and ordinary muslims . i between islamists and ordinary muslims. i mean, islamists are

extreme , um, political activists extreme, um, political activists who claim to be acting on behalf of islam but don't really represent the vast majority of muslims as you say. um, but i you know, generally, i think mps have been quite robust over this and, um, i don't sort of notice too many mps , some pulling their too many mps, some pulling their punches, but there was this lindsay hoyle was is the, um, you know, the issue. he was the only one who was sort of calling that. and i think, well, does he really think that was he really reacting to what he said? he was reacting to what he said? he was reacting to, or was it a bit of an excuse to, um, get out when he knew he'd made a cock up and he knew he'd made a cock up and he was introducing this issue to, um, you know , in order to to, um, you know, in order to sort of, uh , excuse his sort of, uh, excuse his behaviour . sort of, uh, excuse his behaviour. i'm not quite sure what his genuine reasons were on wednesday for doing what he did and, uh, accepting a labour amendment on a snp opposition, which, of course , but, i mean, which, of course, but, i mean, i'd like to take him at face

value because if he's saying that he was concerned about threats, if he's saying that he's going to completely upend parliamentary convention the parliamentary convention on the bafis parliamentary convention on the basis threats, basis of threats, he's effectively saying that terrorism works . terrorism works. >> and, uh, it you know, our liberal democracy and the values of our liberal democracy can be damned. to me is damned. i mean, that to me is even even worse, isn't it? >> well, that's what yes , exactly. >> that's what he would be saying. i mean, know, one saying. i mean, you know, one has to add that, you know, what happened last wednesday was extremely sort of born in happened last wednesday was e)way. ely sort of born in happened last wednesday was e)way. ily sort of born in happened last wednesday was e)way. i mean, of born in happened last wednesday was e)way. i mean, who rn in happened last wednesday was e)way. i mean, who cares in happened last wednesday was e)way. i mean, who cares about a way. i mean, who cares about opposition day motion even less when they're the snp ones. but, um, you know , this thing sort of um, you know, this thing sort of erupted really because of the reasons that sir lindsay hoyle gave for, um, accepting the labour amendment and, um , you labour amendment and, um, you know, otherwise, i thought it would have just died away . but, would have just died away. but, you know, the other the other side to it is to which it's what extent was keir starmer involved 7 extent was keir starmer involved ? and did he did he really nobble the, um , the speaker, as

nobble the, um, the speaker, as some are alleging to do? because if he did, i'd say, you know, it's him who should be in trouble, not sir lindsay hoyle. >> so then, is this really a question about the necessity of having is having a speaker who is impartial ? i having a speaker who is impartial? i mean, i note that some people in the house of commons were calling for a return bercow, most return of john bercow, the most politically partisan speaker we've had , which is not the we've ever had, which is not the way to this problem . so way to fix this problem. so is it the case uh, you it just the case that, uh, you know, lindsay hoyle has failed to maintain his impartiality ? to maintain his impartiality? >> um, well , i to maintain his impartiality? >> um, well, i as i say, i don't know his genuine reasons for what he did on wednesday , but, what he did on wednesday, but, um, i think the irony is that john bercow was a had been a conservative mp and of course, the speaker, when he becomes speaker is neutral, becomes a party all of himself. but, um , party all of himself. but, um, you know, john bercow was often favouring labour and he was a former conservative mp. now we've got a former labour mp in the chair and um, he seemed to be favouring labour as well . so, be favouring labour as well. so, um, don't know. do we get um, i don't know. do we ever get a speaker who favours the, the um, conservatives but, um, i

mean, obviously it's a very , mean, obviously it's a very, very difficult job because, um , very difficult job because, um, you know, when you get amendments put down, the speaker has choose which amendments has to choose which amendments to accept and you know, which amendments you accept, of course, is a very strong political issue. and um, you know, you can't really win if you're the speaker. you've got a list of ten amendments. you've got time to accept three of them. well, um, you know, what bafis them. well, um, you know, what basis do you you choose those three. so i think whatever decision you make as a speaker, you're going to be in trouble. but, um, absolutely. >> well, maybe, uh, maybe we just get an eye robot speaker, something ross clark, something like that. ross clark, thanks much for joining something like that. ross clark, thaion much for joining something like that. ross clark, thaion free much for joining something like that. ross clark, thaion free speech h for joining something like that. ross clark, thaion free speech nationining something like that. ross clark, thaion free speech nation .iing something like that. ross clark, thaion free speech nation . and me on free speech nation. and next up, we're going to be joined by the teacher who's brilliant critical thinking masterclass on jk rowling has gone viral online. so please do not go anywhere

>> you're listening to gb news radio .

radio. >> welcome back to free speech nation, a video of an american teacher and student having a discussion about whether or not harry potter author jk discussion about whether or not harry potter authorjk rowling harry potter author jk rowling really is transphobic has recently gone viral . warren recently gone viral. warren smith encourages students to employ critical thinking to make up their own minds and not follow the crowd. when it comes to contentious issues and debates. let's have a look at a clip of the video in question . clip of the video in question. >> had a pretty >> she's she's had a pretty controversial . i just want >> she's she's had a pretty co know, 'sial . i just want >> she's she's had a pretty co know, like, . i just want >> she's she's had a pretty co know, like, what i just want >> she's she's had a pretty co know, like, what are st want >> she's she's had a pretty co know, like, what are your nt to know, like, what are your thoughts and like, do you to know, like, what are your thoulike and like, do you to know, like, what are your thoulike her and like, do you to know, like, what are your thoulike her work|d like, do you to know, like, what are your thoulike her work despite to you to know, like, what are your thoulike her work despite her,yu still like her work despite her, uh, bigoted opinions? >> when you when you say bigoted opinions, she had a history opinions, she has had a history of being extremely transphobic . of being extremely transphobic. >> heard, like you >> like i've heard, like you said the beginning of this said at the beginning of this conversation, given the conversation, you said given the fact rowling is fact that jk rowling is transphobic, how do you feel about harry now? retro about harry potter now? retro actively looking at that statement, do you think that that was the best way to phrase it? >> no , i feel like an idiot now. >> no, i feel like an idiot now. >> no, i feel like an idiot now. >> and i'm delighted to be joined now by warren smith

himself. good evening warren, thanks joining me . himself. good evening warren, thanks joining me. i'm thanks forjoining me. i'm fascinated by this video. um, i, i often get into arguments with people online about people who claim that, jk rowling is transphobic. and then whenever i ask for some evidence of this, a quotation , often they can never quotation, often they can never produce them because don't produce them because they don't exist. actually exist. but you were actually able capture this kind of able to capture this kind of revelation this young person revelation for this young person on film . is this something that on film. is this something that you do a lot ? you do a lot? >> yes. i mean, this was not that unusual of a conversation. there just happened to be a camera there at this instance. but yeah , we have conversations but yeah, we have conversations like this the time. students like this all the time. students ask questions, is ask questions, what is socialism? what is fascism? and that's our job as teachers. >> so is your emphasis here on asking a students to effectively produce evidence for the contentions that they hold , contentions that they hold, rather than just relying on what other people have told them what to think? >> yes, it's essentially presuppositions. whenever someone just comes to a conclusion, the best way to allow them to see whether or not that conclusion is valid is

through questions. because questions allow the other person to speak in their own words . to speak in their own words. it's much less effective if i, as a teacher, telling as a teacher, am telling them information many people information which many people think what teaching but think is what teaching is. but when you ask questions, they're now running through their own now go running through their own thoughts and presenting their own words and of course, it's not just about young people. >> i mean a lot of adults and a lot of mainstream commentators have made the claim that jk rowling although have made the claim that jk rowlirlook although have made the claim that jk rowlirlook into although have made the claim that jk rowlirlook into it although have made the claim that jk rowlirlook into it for although have made the claim that jk rowlirlook into it for about ough if you look into it for about ten minutes, evidence ten minutes, there's no evidence of so why is of that whatsoever. so why is it, do you think, that people tend along with what the tend to go along with what the herd are saying is true , rather herd are saying is true, rather than making the effort to think for themselves as because it feels good and they want to go along with what their group thinks, it's that tribal mentality. >> it's a social. it's a social dilemma. so whether you're at work, whether you are a teacher , work, whether you are a teacher, you don't want to disagree , you you don't want to disagree, you don't want to say the wrong thing because then you become

ostracised. we've seen the consequences of that the consequences of that and the consequences of that and the consequences dire . consequences can be dire. >> now. your video was circulated online by lots of people, including elon musk, as it happened. so he's had a lot of traction. also know of traction. but i also know that a lot of the activists who really despise jk rowling, the kind send her threats kind who send her threats every day, very happy day, they won't be very happy with have you had with you. i wonder, have you had any for this ? any flak for this? >> there was some activity on x after i did a follow up video examining some of this evidence. doing another critical thinking exercise , i saw some unusual exercise, i saw some unusual activity on x and they were just listing my employer over and oven listing my employer over and over. a group of people just trying to flood the college where i work with messages. and i did receive a very supportive message , though, yesterday from message, though, yesterday from the college , which really meant the college, which really meant a lot, saying our social media team detected this online and we've been flooded with activity . we just want to reach out and make sure you're doing okay. let

us know if there's anything we can do. and that meant a lot . can do. and that meant a lot. >> it's very interesting, isn't it, of the activist it, that a lot of the activist tactics get you tactics is to try and get you fired, than for example, fired, rather than for example, putting counter argument . putting up a counter argument. but you think that is ? but why do you think that is? >> well, i invited them to. i said, anyone who would like to call will have call in, i will have a conversation with you. we do call in, i will have a coonzrsation with you. we do call in, i will have a coon camera with you. we do call in, i will have a coon camera ,iith you. we do call in, i will have a coon camera , on you. we do call in, i will have a coon camera , or we u. we do call in, i will have a coon camera , or we cane do call in, i will have a coon camera , or we can just do it on camera, or we can just have a conversation . no one has have a conversation. no one has taken me up on that offer yet. they to. they seem to they seem to. they seem to prefer intimidation . they seem to. they seem to pre'anditimidation . they seem to. they seem to pre'and itiwould on . they seem to. they seem to pre'anditiwould put it to you, >> and i would put it to you, warren, might be warren, that that might be because they would because they know they would lose argument, but lose that argument, but nevertheless, it's interesting that to embed that you've decided to embed critical thinking into all of your teaching. is this something that you think teachers could be doing more often, irrespective of what the subject is? >> , critical thinking >> yes, i do, critical thinking is the ability to arrive at arrive at the best decision to move forward , and we encounter move forward, and we encounter these decisions in day to day life. just going about your day every day and it's being able to take in all of the data and think in terms of the larger implications. the long terme not

necessarily the immediate now and what feels good and what that pursuit of happiness. but thinking about what's actually going to be the most benefit in the long terme. and that's a skill . skill. >> it a skill and it's a >> it is a skill and it's a skill that of people don't skill that a lot of people don't have. but might it be that there's quite there's something quite comforting about having certainty in the world and that actually, once you start challenging your views and challenging your own views and realising all wrong realising that we're all wrong about all sorts of things, that actually that can be quite a psychologically destabilising sensation , well, the true sensation, well, the true essence of wisdom from socrates said himself was realising that you know, nothing , and to you know, nothing, and to embrace that and to embrace the pursuit of truth in the face of not knowing anything. >> so . so, you know, don't shy >> so. so, you know, don't shy away from it. their certainty is it feels it. we keep going back to that word feeling. it feels very good. and it, it it's a very good. and it, it it's a very strange feeling when we encounter one of our presuppositions dissolving before us, which is why it's so

rare to see. and i think that's why that video resonated. it's a very rare thing, but when it does happen, it's a beautiful thing. >> and it's very interesting that video, young that in the video, the young person realised they had person realised that they had been promoting what was essentially a lie and reflected on that and said that they feel like a fool. activists don't do that. don't that. they get angry, don't they? very different they? it's a very different response. isn't that response. but isn't that gratifying people, gratifying that young people, for the way people for all the way that people dismiss snowflakes dismiss them as being snowflakes and intransigent and unwilling to it, your video would to debate it, your video would seem counter that, wouldn't seem to counter that, wouldn't it? yes >> that's why i enjoy working with young students so much, because they have this innocence about them that they haven't been closed off by by. once been just closed off by by. once you get into the college level, that age group, that's when they really start getting into that word. use indoctrination and word. we use indoctrination and that group thing, really. it really hammers in in a different direction. but the students at that age, there's just an innocence about them and an open mindedness and grace you mindedness and a grace that you saw in that video. >> so in other words, let's teach them critical thinking

before they university and before they go to university and it ruined. it all gets ruined. >> i think so. that's the solution. >> warrant. could you let anyone know they find more know where they might find more videos what doing? videos of what you're doing? because just because of course, it's not just about you about about jk rowling. you talk about all issues . all sorts of issues. >> you can find me on exit >> yeah, you can find me on exit smith 17. you can find the youtube channel where the video is originally posted. warren smith secret scholar society fantastic . fantastic. >> well, warren smith, thanks for all that you do. and thanks for all that you do. and thanks for joining me tonight. thank forjoining me tonight. thank you much for having me . and you very much for having me. and next on free speech nation, a jewish bystander is asked to remove a star of david so he doesn't trigger protest letters. and the labour party has a little fun at rishi sunak's expense , and a device which expense, and a device which might genuinely transform your life. it's almost time for social sensations. please do not go anywhere

i >> -- >> on -_ >> on mark dolan tonight night,

in my big opinion, the bbc director—general admits we're woke by saying the organisation is proudly progressive . is proudly progressive. >> that'll come as no surprise to its many viewers and listeners in my take. often, lee anderson may have used clumsy language and crossed a line, but the message is an important one. britain is in grip of britain is now in the grip of dangerous extremism , and killing dangerous extremism, and killing the won't make the the messenger won't make the problem go away. we're live at nine. welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. >> it's near the end of the show, so it's time for social sensations. and that's the part where look at what's been where we look at what's been going week social going viral this week on social media. turbid media. in those evil, turbid waters the digital space. waters of the digital space. first up is this video taken at a pro—palestine rally in edinburgh , where a police edinburgh, where a police officer asked a jewish bystander to his star of david in to hide his star of david in fear that it would trigger the protesters. take a look. thank you . you've got you're not doing

you. you've got you're not doing anything wrong, okay? >> you're not doing anything illegal, is that if people will see your star, which i appreciate that you've hinckley with, um , they will just get with, um, they will just get very, very angry . with, um, they will just get very, very angry. i'm with, um, they will just get very, very angry . i'm only. with, um, they will just get very, very angry. i'm only. i'm going to ask that you don't have to. would you mind stopping your star behind your jumper? >> i do actually, yes. do you mind that? yeah. okay. yeah >> i don't plan to engage with anyone here. okay. and if someone triggered, i think someone is triggered, i think they need to learn how to control emotions . control their emotions. >> i just find that so depressing. i understand the argument are argument that the police are there peace. there to keep the peace. in other to sure to other words, to make sure to protect safety. but have we protect his safety. but have we really point the really reached the point in the uk where can't wear uk where someone can't wear a star without fear of star of david without fear of violence depressing violence that is so depressing to paul. yeah i think it to me? paul. yeah i think it actually back the actually goes back to the previous story when we were talking about critical thinking that thinking that police officer was thinking very moment. very much in the moment. >> course, his >> now, of course, his intentions were probably good. he might attack, he thought the mob might attack, which says about mob , which says a lot about the mob, doesn't because we keep we doesn't it? because we keep we keep how friendly doesn't it? because we keep we keep are. how friendly doesn't it? because we keep we keep are. they how friendly doesn't it? because we keep we keep are. they didn't friendly doesn't it? because we keep we keep are. they didn't look dly they are. they didn't look particularly friendly there. to me, picture me, however, the wider picture

is start, that's it is if you start, that's where it starts, it? as you starts, isn't it? as soon as you censor somebody, jewellery which is sacred to them, likely, then you end up censoring hundreds of thousands of other people for , thousands of other people for, for much less. and you end up with silence . with silence. >> well, it's like when the police dragging guy police were dragging that guy away a sign away for holding up a sign saying are terrorists, saying hamas are terrorists, which they but he doing which they are. but he was doing that pro—palestine rally . that at a pro—palestine rally. but problem. but he's not the problem. >> there . no, absolutely. but he's not the problem. >> ande . no, absolutely. but he's not the problem. >> and if. no, absolutely. but he's not the problem. >> and if you absolutely. but he's not the problem. >> and if you the ;olutely. but he's not the problem. >> and if you the thing.y. but he's not the problem. >> and if you the thing that was most egregious about that, that particular it was quite particular video is it was quite aggressive removed from the situation. right. he situation. yes. that's right. he started going with them. but they continued to push they but they continued to push and hassle him. >> now this is edinburgh. this is where you live. so i know i wasn't i wasn't there, wasn't no i wasn't there, i didn't organise anything. >> i'm not saying it's your fault. >> no i was here all weekend but you edinburgh the, you you know edinburgh is the, you know, of hume and the know, the home of hume and the home the enlightenment. know, the home of hume and the horso the enlightenment. know, the home of hume and the horso tigreat,ghtenment. know, the home of hume and the horso tigreat,ghtit,ment. know, the home of hume and the horso tigreat,ghtit, when >> so not great, is it, when people know. people have to know. >> but it's a bit like that. who was woman was seeing was the woman that was seeing the on oxford was the woman that was seeing the and on oxford was the woman that was seeing the and that on oxford was the woman that was seeing the and that police )xford was the woman that was seeing the and that police officer was the woman that was seeing the wasn't that police officer was the woman that was seeing the wasn't really)olice officer was the woman that was seeing the wasn't really even officer was the woman that was seeing the wasn't really even opolice who wasn't really even a police officer. she was an unpaid uniform wearer. uh, hashtag just saying. know that.

saying. but you know that that. yeah, similar , yeah, that's kind of similar, but it's not right, is it, that. no, completely agree. you no, i completely agree. you know, you be to wear know, you should be able to wear the if wants to the star if he wants to. way to start. he very docile and start. he looked very docile and very yeah. and very peaceful. yeah. and a lovely beard. >> a nice beard actually. >> it was a nice beard actually. looked clean. okay. so. and beards they. beards aren't always are they. >> other yeah there's >> no other monkey. yeah there's a beard. a lot living in a beard. beard oil. >> waste of time that oil. waste of time that is. >> what a waste of time that is. oh, i disagree oh, you think it's good? >> ford, >> tom ford, all the way. really? yeah. >> we'll talk after the >> well, we'll talk after the show. well, you learn something every show. well, you learn something eve uh, next the >> uh, next up, the conservatives video conservatives posted a video of rishi being rishi sunak apparently being distracted part distracted by his phone as part of for mobiles being of a crackdown for mobiles being used schools. labour used in schools. and labour spotted chance a bit spotted a chance to make a bit of mischief. >> one of the biggest issues . >> one of the biggest issues. >> one of the biggest issues. >> is . the habit. >> is. the habit. >> is. the habit. >> is. the habit. >> i can't see what's on that screen. >> no is the impact of. screen. >> no is the impact of . okay >> no is the impact of. okay keeps going . on keeps going. on >> okay, miss call from liz

truss messages saying that the tories are terrible. that's the joke . joke. >> it's a joke. >> it's a joke. >> modified the video haven't they. yeah. >> that's funny. there we go. >> that's funny. there we go. >> labour party . >> the labour party. >> the labour party. >> yeah it's unbelievable isn't it. yeah. you know well starmer didn't with did didn't come up with that did he. >> no. >> em- 5 know who did. come on >> do you know who did. come on emily you think emily thornberry, do you think you at night you can imagine late at night i undo a club chair undo bannau and a club chair with a load of crisps going . do with a load of crisps going. do you know what i'm going to do ? you know what i'm going to do? >> i think probably right about that. >> i really like her. i think she's funny. i that lannoy. she's funny. i know that lannoy. a of people. i think a lot of people. but no, i think she good value. i'd hang she seems good value. i'd hang out her. out with her. >> should, i should emphasise >> i should, i should emphasise that very in the that remains very much in the world speculation. not world of speculation. we're not saying. saying. saying. we're not saying. >> my thoughts. >> these are just my thoughts. >> these are just my thoughts. >> not that emily >> we're not saying that emily thornberry >> we're not saying that emily thornbeiyou know, it's not >> but, you know, it's not entirely of character. entirely out of character. >> come on. >>- >> come on. >> imagine asians in in >> can you imagine asians in in a bag of twiglets? >> anyway, finally, more on mobile phones. >> and for those of you who enjoy a scroll before bed but have encountered problems holding onto your device, this new invention will probably solve all your problems. let's

have a look . have a look. on the thing is, it looks quite an elaborate device for such a small problem. >> i think the problem is not holding it above your head. yeah, the phone down. if yeah, i put the phone down. if you're down or lie you're going to lie down or lie on side . on your side. >> i that's never happened >> i mean, that's never happened to you i don't to me, but i, you know, i don't hold above my head, but hold it above my head, but normally reading in normally i'm reading a book in bed anyway. >> really? yes naughty. andrew bed anyway. >> re kwasi’es naughty. andrew bed anyway. >> re kwasi . s naughty. andrew bed anyway. >> re kwasi . wow. ghty. andrew doyle kwasi. wow. >> thornberry >> emily thornberry is. >> emily thornberry is. >> with emily. >> you're obsessed with emily. >> you're obsessed with emily. >> i i'm to go and >> i am. i'm going to go and find her tonight. >> um, paul, do you hold your phone above your. >> he was >> not like that. i mean, he was holding it quite some height as well, wasn't don't know well, wasn't he? i don't know what him. i think what was wrong with him. i think he optician. he needed to see an optician. >> anyone going to sleep in >> is anyone going to sleep in that thing? >> just. no, just on the off chance might chance that they might drop their say their phone. let's not say nobody will know. >> will. okay. fair >> someone will. okay. fair enough. look, the enough. well, look, this is the part show where we talk part of the show where we talk through unfiltered

through your unfiltered dilemmas. much dilemmas. thank you all so much for writing your for writing in with your personal uh, first personal problems. uh, our first dilemma comes in from dilemma this week comes in from eleanor. was eleanor. and eleanor says, i was shopping in marks spencer's shopping in marks and spencer's when i found a discarded discount i put it on discount sticker. so i put it on my chicken caesar wrap my £4, 50 chicken caesar wrap when i scanned it, the price was 162. think i was just being 162. i think i was just being thrifty, my friends thrifty, but my friends have said thief, which is it? said i'm a thief, which is it? um, i'm afraid to say, um, well, i'm afraid to say, yeah, you'll burn in hell. >> yeah. you really ? well, >> yeah. you really? well, outright theft, isn't it? >> can't just swap the tags >> you can't just swap the tags around a better price. >> that's absolutely outrageous. price. >> also,; absolutely outrageous. price. >> also, it's solutely outrageous. price. >> also, it's a lutely outrageous. price. >> also, it's a lie. ly outrageous. price. >> also, it's a lie. theytrageous. price. >> also, it's a lie. they do |eous. price. >> also, it's a lie. they do not s. >> also, it's a lie. they do not discard yellow labels. they are very, very . they're like very, very. they're like gold dust. to people dust. particularly to people that work in this channel. and you find them over the road. >> fences rest. >> yeah. fences over the rest. yeah. yeah. yeah. yeah yeah. >> clarification . >> good clarification. >> good clarification. >> yeah. so no i think what was her name? eleanor. leonora. yeah. know, honestly, yeah. emma. you know, honestly, you're getting nothing for christmas . no. christmas. no, no. >> you think emma's thief? >> do you think emma's a thief? >> do you think emma's a thief? >> technically >> well, it is technically thieving, isn't it? yeah, but i thieving. but there's some entrepreneurship ism i quite like about it. oh, really? but then i grow up on a council estate. >> okay, well, i would advise no

one to do that. i think that's outrageous. our next dilemma now comes jack and jack says comes in from jack and jack says it's 30th it's my boyfriend's 30th birthday getting birthday soon. so i'm getting him of them him 30 presents. some of them will small rubbish, but will be small and rubbish, but i wanted get him something wanted to get him something great well. should get great as well. what should i get him showstopper, bentley? >> i'm a new boyfriend. >> i'm a new boyfriend. >> if that's your attitude. >> if that's your attitude. >> really? >> really? >> he will want something decent with receipt. a load of with a receipt. not a load of old from the pound shop. old rubbish from the pound shop. but if you're courageous, bruce, if you're to gifts, if you're going to get 30 gifts, can what some of can you imagine what some of it's going to be like? a putin mask, a lorraine mask, mask, a lorraine kelly mask, a signed photo eleanor signed photo of eleanor thornberry . signed photo of eleanor thornberry. i'm yellow signed photo of eleanor thornberry . i'm yellow label thornberry. i'm a yellow label from marks and spencer's wish list . list. >> that's all this is. >> that's all this is. >> i think that's i wouldn't do the 30 and it's a gimmicky thing to i wouldn't go with that. >> e coming e— e coming to me after >> you keep coming to me after after. >> bruce has been extremely funny, which making really funny, which is making it really tncky funny, which is making it really tricky because he's a tricky for me because he's a rarity for me as well. >> do. rarity for me as well. >> you're superbly, bruce . >> you're doing superbly, bruce. >> you're doing superbly, bruce. >> difficult to follow. i will say , uh, well, what do you what say, uh, well, what do you what do you the person you don't do you buy the person you don't buy if they buy them. because what if they stay together they're 80? stay together till they're 80? >> it's going to get

>> i mean, it's going to get really, really expensive. >> i mean, it's going to get really, reiisy expensive. >> i mean, it's going to get really, reiis that?ensive.on. >> what is that? hang on. >> what is that? hang on. >> when someone in a new >> when someone is in a new relationship they buy relationship and they buy lots of yes. that? of gifts. yes. what's that? what's called ? what's that time called? >> daddy? >> sugar daddy? >> sugar daddy? >> sugar daddy . bruce >> no, not sugar daddy. bruce >> no, not sugar daddy. bruce >> oh, yeah? yeah. who isn't ? >> oh, yeah? yeah. who isn't? >> oh, yeah? yeah. who isn't? >> look, we've got time, i think, for one more dilemma. this is from helen. helen says i went on a first date with a guy. congratulations it was all going swimmingly asked out of swimmingly until he asked out of the whether i an anti the blue whether i had an anti ageing in ageing skincare routine in place. i'm 22. he's asked to see me again. how should i respond ? me again. how should i respond? bruce, you're the relationship guru. >> okay , so what i would say is >> okay, so what i would say is i'm off for tear trough filler and botox and i will meet you in two weeks. when it's settled down. we don't know what she looks like, but surely helen, you can be 22 all you like, but isn't it quite rude if you're on a date for someone to say, you know, maybe you should think about anti—aging regime. it's know, maybe you should think airude anti—aging regime. it's know, maybe you should think airude world.—aging regime. it's know, maybe you should think airude world. you ng regime. it's know, maybe you should think airude world. you justegime. it's know, maybe you should think airude world. you just have. it's know, maybe you should think airude world. you just have to :'s a rude world. you just have to deal honestly. deal with it. honestly. >> as well get >> you might as well get yourself love yourself a treadmill. love >> but you know, go on >> but you know, are we to go on the maybe that'll the plane? yeah, maybe that'll happen. don't know. happen. we don't know. >> i'm sorry. i think this

>> paul. i'm sorry. i think this is just clearly wasn't into is just clearly he wasn't into her, if that's what you're saying. a first date, then saying. on a first date, then it's to go anywhere, it's not going to go anywhere, is it? >> obviously getting >> he's obviously getting more dates have done. dates than i would have done. i'd have just been glad she was talking to start talking to me. i want to start asking about her ageing asking her about her ageing process. i've been. process. unless i've just been. thanks being here. oh, do process. unless i've just been. thaithink being here. oh, do process. unless i've just been. thaithink be brutal'e. oh, do process. unless i've just been. thaithink be brutal honesty) process. unless i've just been. thaithink be brutal honesty is you think the brutal honesty is actually sign actually quite a good sign if she's going this honest she's going to be this honest early on in the relationship? 20 no ageing 22. no one's ageing at 22. >> some of are, believe >> oh, some of them are, believe me, believe you don't need me, believe me, you don't need botox 22. botox at 22. >> but botox at 22. >> i'm sorry, but people are getting 22. >> i'm sorry, but people are get oh, 22. >> i'm sorry, but people are get oh, theyf. >> i'm sorry, but people are get oh, they are, but i think >> oh, they are, but i think it's an absolute tragedy. >> uh, you so >> listen, uh, thank you so much. of time. thanks much. we are out of time. thanks so for joining for free so much for joining me for free speech was the week so much for joining me for free speeca was the week so much for joining me for free speeca jewish was the week so much for joining me for free speeca jewish man was the week so much for joining me for free speeca jewish man was told week so much for joining me for free speeca jewish man was told byek when a jewish man was told by police to keep his faith hidden. the speaker house of the speaker of the house of commons threw convention in commons threw out convention in the threats, and the face of violent threats, and the face of violent threats, and the his the world's oldest dog lost his title. my panel, title. but thanks to my panel, bruce to all my great bruce and paul, to all my great guests this evening. by the guests this evening. and by the way, want to join us, way, if you want to join us, live in the studio and be part of audience, you can easily of our audience, you can easily do that. just go sro do that. just go to sro audiences .com. it's right there on for on the screen. stay tuned for the mark tonight the brilliant mark dolan tonight

that's next. don't that's coming up next. and don't forget is on every forget headline news is on every night 11:00. that late night at 11:00. that is the late night at 11:00. that is the late night paper preview show, where comedian through comedian take you through the next stories. next day's top news stories. thank you. ever so much for watching free speech with watching free speech nation with me see you me andrew doyle. i'll see you next . next week. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsor of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello there! i'm jonathan vautrey here of your gb news weather forecast provided by the met office . february is met office. february is continuing on its reasonably unsettled picture and it has been a very wet end to the weekend for many southern areas of england. we've got this band of england. we've got this band of continuing to sweep of rain continuing to sweep its way for way eastwards, particularly for southeastern england, overnight way eastwards, particularly for southeasthe england, overnight way eastwards, particularly for southeasthe earlyand, overnight way eastwards, particularly for southeasthe early hours/ernight way eastwards, particularly for southeasthe early hours ofnight and into the early hours of tomorrow morning. some very persistent rainfall could provide some disruption and localised in places, so localised flooding in places, so do continue take care further do continue to take care further north. be some clear

north. there will be some clear spells out, some spells overnight out, some showers frozen showers falling on frozen surfaces where we see a patchy frost developing parts frost developing across parts of scotland, see some frost developing across parts of sco stretches see some frost developing across parts of sco stretches first see some frost developing across parts of sco stretches first thingsee some frost developing across parts of sco stretches first thing on some icy stretches first thing on monday morning. otherwise there will intervals for will be some sunny intervals for many us, but this rain in the many of us, but this rain in the far just take a far south—east will just take a little of time eventually little bit of time to eventually clear quite a brisk clear its way off. quite a brisk north breeze coming north easterly breeze coming in off north sea, and is going off the north sea, and is going to quite and to make it feel quite cold and crisp. some just crisp. some showers just filtering for north filtering in on that for north eastern england eastern eastern england and eastern scotland as well. temperatures will where we'd expect will be around where we'd expect them to be for time of year, them to be for the time of year, but i said, cold breeze but as i said, that cold breeze could certainly make it feel a little bitter into little bit bitter even into tuesday, of high tuesday, this ridge of high pressure has brought us the pressure that has brought us the fine conditions on monday will slowly southwards, slowly slip its way southwards, allowing cold to allowing this cold front to then move from the move its way in from the northwest. so increasingly turning for turning wet and windy for scotland ireland. scotland and northern ireland. first as that first thing, we'll watch as that front pushes way first thing, we'll watch as that front eastwardshes way first thing, we'll watch as that front eastwards during way first thing, we'll watch as that front eastwards during the day south eastwards during the day it will tend to fizzle out, turning lighter and patchier, so certainly south—east certainly the far south—east will for a good portion will stay dry for a good portion of day. we continue to see of the day. we continue to see though further bands of rain and showers moving their way in throughout second of

showers moving their way in thro week, t second of showers moving their way in throweek,t enjoynd of showers moving their way in throweek,t enjoynd restyf showers moving their way in throweek,t enjoynd rest of the week, but enjoy the rest of your evening by. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers spot answers of weather on gb news as

well -- well . good evening. well. good evening. >> it's 9:00 on television, on radio and online in the united kingdom and across the world. this is mark dolan tonight in my big opinion. the bbc director—general admits we are woke by saying the organisation is proudly progressive, that will come as no surprise to its long suffering viewers and listeners . as my mark meets listeners. as my mark meets guest is the inventor of the tesco clubcard card, the biggest and most successful loyalty card scheme in the world, and edwina dunn obe tells her extraordinary business story shortly