prime minister warning from the prime minister on friday that democracy is being threatened by a rise in extremism . the seven year old extremism. the seven year old girl has died after a migrant boat carrying 16 people capsized in the english channel. she had been travelling with her pregnant mother, her father and three siblings when the boat got into difficulty in the early hours of this morning . videos hours of this morning. videos filmed inside prisons are to be banned as the government moves to crack down on harmful content being posted online. the move will close a loophole in which it's only a crime for inmates to post prison footage. the new laws would criminalise the posting of video, photos and audio recordings taken in jail. filming of staff will also be banned, as well as content captured by drones. anyone found breaching the laws could be liable for an unlimited fine . liable for an unlimited fine. two women have been charged after pouring porridge and jam on a bust of queen victoria at a scottish art museum. sorsha nevaton and hannah taylor also

spray painted an expletive on the plinth at the kelvingrove gallery and museum in glasgow . gallery and museum in glasgow. the pair, from the campaign group this is rigged, reportedly glued themselves to the bust. the group says it carried out the vandalism to protest against increasing food insecurity . increasing food insecurity. donald trump could take another step towards a november election rematch with joe biden later. a voting is underway in washington dc , with mr trump hoping to dc, with mr trump hoping to continue his clean sweep of states in the race to become the republican party's presidential candidate. he's now won six states after victories in missouri, michigan and idaho. last night. however, he made a number of false claims at campaign events , including campaign events, including allegations that joe biden is smuggling people across the border . and smuggling people across the border. and he again confused the current president with barack obama . let me get the barack obama. let me get the latest on all of our stories with our gb news alerts. scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts. now it's back to free speech

nafion now it's back to free speech nation . nation. >> the canadian government wants to arrest people for precrime. a man gets two years in jail for putting up stickers . and some of putting up stickers. and some of the world's leading leading scientists can't agree on whether sex is binary or not. this is free speech. nation . this is free speech. nation. welcome to free speech nation. with me , andrew doyle. this is with me, andrew doyle. this is the show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics. and of course, we'll have latest from those have the latest from those lovable culture warriors. they've usual they've been up to their usual tncks they've been up to their usual tricks week, cancelling tricks this week, cancelling comedians shocking crime comedians for the shocking crime of telling jokes. so coming up on the show tonight, amy gallagher and carol sherwood will be in the studio to discuss amy's important new documentary, heresies how psychology went mad and carol's campaign to restore sanhy and carol's campaign to restore sanity to mental health care. we will hear about a story which

has major implications for free speech. as police in bristol backed after attempting to backed down after attempting to silence a christian street preacher from criticising other religions and atheism, and what is the correct way to use preferred pronouns or should you not use them at all.7 i preferred pronouns or should you not use them at all? i will be debating this with cara dansky and sarah fillmore, and of course myself and my fantastic panel will be here to answer questions from our delightful studio audience. comedian studio audience. my comedian panellists this evening are cressida wetton and lewis schaffer, who . are both looking schaffer, who. are both looking very, very well. how are you, cressida? >> yeah, i'm fabulous, thank you. you're always here these days, aren't you? i live at gb news. >> you live at gb news? yes. which are you still living on the boat? yes >> yes yes, yes. that's why i like it here. so much. you've got lighting, electricity, the floor doesn't move exactly. >> it's fantastic. very good. what about you, lewis? how are you? not talking it. >> we're not talking about it. oh, for goodness sake. >> is, is. i've >> what? that is, is. i've noficed >> what? that is, is. i've noticed wearing noticed that lewis is wearing a ring he wasn't wearing

ring that he wasn't wearing previously, so this presumably means is it? just jewellery means what is it? just jewellery for are you for the sake of it. are you going all mafiosa or it going all mafiosa or is it actually something to do with a relationship lewis? relationship with lewis? no, he's not speaking. he's not having we're just having it. okay. we're just going to have to guess. i'll leave that for you home to leave that for you at home to speculate what earth going speculate what on earth is going on remember that on there. but do remember that lewis quite, quite mad. lewis is quite, quite mad. now let's get questions from let's get some questions from the audience. our first question let's get some questions from the aqurome. our first question let's get some questions from the aqurom elliott. rst question let's get some questions from the aqurom elliott. elliott.stion comes from elliott. elliott. hello. hello. hi >> canada now an >> is canada now an authoritarian state? >> elliott i think it's been an authoritarian state for a while. i mean, under trudeau, this is a new thing now. and this is coming from the justice minister who has arif virani and he has defended this new power for their online harms bill that sounds familiar. we've got something quite similar. and they're they can they're saying they can now impose house arrest someone impose house arrest on someone who they think might commit a hate crime in the future . you're hate crime in the future. you're right. that's scary stuff, isn't it? >> well, obviously i work with lewis, so it's got some advantages, hasn't it? it looks attractive on the outside, doesn't it? i know what you're like. you're going to do it

again. get indoors. however where obviously very again. get indoors. however wherside obviously very again. get indoors. however wherside to obviously very again. get indoors. however wher side to this/iously very again. get indoors. however wher side to this because very again. get indoors. however wher side to this because you dark side to this because you can't in my opinion, you shouldn't be able to imprison somebody before they've done anything. >> shouldn't. and >> no, you shouldn't. and i don't the canadian don't trust the canadian government. on this kind of thing. have form. they do, thing. they have form. they do, don't remember, don't they? if you remember, the truckers they truckers protests where they seized their bank accounts. yeah. and people trying to donate to truckers . well, donate to the truckers. well, not only that, the people who are donated the truckers, the are donated to the truckers, the government going to government said we're going to redistribute charities government said we're going to redichoosing. charities government said we're going to redichoosing. whatarities government said we're going to redichoosing. what are es government said we're going to redichoosing. what are you our choosing. what are you talking your talking about? it's not your money. it's i mean, that's money. like it's i mean, that's the definition of authoritarianism, right? well, it canada know you in it is canada and i know you in this country kind of kind of respect canada as a country. >> america even know it >> america didn't even know it was a country until recently. and i think that's what they're trying they're trying to trying to do. they're trying to show to different show themselves to be different than america. >> think has >> i think america has a responsibility to invade. you know do? you know, you're kidding. >> but it may come down to this or this may just be a it may be. >> well, i just think it's ridiculous that the idea of arresting someone, i mean, our government's enough, and government's bad enough, and the

scottish government is out of control. the government's control. the irish government's out they're all out of control. they're all talking i mean, irish talking about. i mean, the irish government's got a new hate crimes where they're crimes bill where they're talking about they can seize your phone they suspect your phone if they suspect you might that might have some material that could up could potentially stir up hatred. for god's sake, hatred. i mean, for god's sake, what does that mean? your phone's kind of. phone's full of that kind of. yeah well, the government knows that. >> yeah, but. you're right. >> yeah, but. but you're right. but has to do with the bigger but it has to do with the bigger picture, which is canada has sucked on big team sucked itself in on the big team world's. i'm going say world's. sorry. i'm going to say it. world and what it. it's big team world and what they're they're doing. this they're what they're doing. this is not even a free speech issue. this is just about silencing dissent against dissent. well, against the canadian government. it has nothing with openness and nothing to do with openness and talk like saying, talk whatever. it's like saying, we want these people to we don't want these people to spread opinions , opinions, spread their opinions, opinions, dangerous opinions. >> speech codes and >> that's what speech codes and hate speech laws always do . hate speech laws always do. >> always means that >> and it always means that rather hearing the rather than hearing all the opinions, as citizen opinions, myself as a citizen and making up my own mind, somebody policing what somebody else is policing what i get hear and it's of paternalistic. >> is it the government basically saying, to basically saying, we want to make sure that you're you're protected from offence? my real worry hate speech worry about these hate speech

laws is that essentially what's going they're all going to happen is they're all so don't so nebulous. they don't define what means. you look at what hate means. if you look at the government's hate the irish government's hate speech is not speech bill, and this is not a joke, it defines hatred as hatred. that's helpful. so basically they don't know what it means. and of course, what happens if a future government says consider it hateful to says we consider it hateful to criticise government? what criticise the government? what happens mean , it's scary happens then? i mean, it's scary stuff. move on to stuff. we're going to move on to another now from anita. another question now from anita. where's anita. where's anita? hi, anita. hi. hi. >> uh, em— >> uh, should we listen? scientists, when it comes to gender and sex. >> yeah, it's a good question because, seen because, you know, we've seen a lot discussed on this show lot we've discussed on this show before of scientists before that a lot of scientists are saying that sex isn't are now saying that sex isn't binary. a spectrum , um, binary. it's on a spectrum, um, stuff every child knows is stuff that every child knows is not true. and there was just this survey this week of 200 top scientists at british university. this was by the telegraph and a group called censuswide, and 58% of these top scientists think that sex is binary. 58. quite a few, not sure it's a lot left out there. i mean, that's a worry, isn't it? i know that the medical, um, profession has , like every other

profession has, like every other institution, become ideologic captured by this kind of nonsense. but that's scary. if i'm going to treated , i want i'm going to get treated, i want the to understand the doctor to understand that i'm particularly it's i'm male, particularly if it's something. well, won't into something. well, i won't go into detail, you what mean. >> it's not that again. um, but it doesn't. don't know if it doesn't. i don't know if they've specified what kind of scientists, and wonder whether scientists, and i wonder whether this has happened in academia. and people along and some people are going along to are just maybe to get along and are just maybe not engaging this not not engaging with this because want any trouble. >> i'm not sure it could be. it could i mean, i know yeah, could be. i mean, i know yeah, let's hope these aren't biologists. well, yeah. >> exactly. biologists. well, yeah. >> that exactly. biologists. well, yeah. >> that would :ly. biologists. well, yeah. >> that would be good if they said it was. >> it was a survey of biologist, but extremely concerned. but i'd be extremely concerned. >> i think >> but yeah, but i think just scientists . should know that scientists. should know that there are two sexes in a sexual dimorphic species. right. >> , would that >> well, you would say that i would, but i just did. yeah. you just did. but other people, it is a contentious issue . is a contentious issue. >> no it's not lewis. >> no it's not lewis. >> i don't think it is. but for the sake of marital happiness, i will say that it. >> okay. so we're going to come back to this point now. from

from now on, lewis cannot express his opinions honestly because engaged. is is because he's engaged. is that is that what we're that basically what what we're getting think that's getting here? i think that's what getting to. getting here? i think that's whtl getting to. getting here? i think that's whtl think etting to. getting here? i think that's whtl think this g to. getting here? i think that's whtl think this isto. getting here? i think that's whtl think this is my last time >> i think this is my last time on show. yeah, well, you on the show. yeah, well, you know what, lewis? >> you brought this on yourself. >> you brought this on yourself. >> and i shouldn't have >> i did, and i shouldn't have done made a mistake. done it. and i made a mistake. but was crying. done it. and i made a mistake. buti'm was crying. done it. and i made a mistake. buti'm hoping.'ing. done it. and i made a mistake. buti'm hoping. look, lewis, am >> i'm hoping. look, lewis, am i right in thinking she doesn't watch the show right? >> i think she's in the audience right but agree. right now. no, but i agree. i the first of all, here's the question. the question is, who are scientists? there are are these scientists? there are only of them. like the only 200 of them. it's like the same where they said same thing where they said the consensus that there's consensus says that there's climate and you climate change, and then you find actual study that find out the actual study that they done. and had they had done. and they had basically whittled it down to just the, the 97 people who just the, the, the 97 people who believed in. we don't know whether it's real or not. of coui'se. >> course. >> you know, it's real. it's a question that a look it's a baseline question that scientists it's like asking a farmer. is there any difference between a sheep and a goat? if the farmer know that i the farmer doesn't know that i don't want them to farming don't want them to be farming animals, but they're animals, but if they're producing animal at producing the right animal at the what do you care

the right time, what do you care what they're thinking? oh, completely me. what they're thinking? oh, conyeah. ly me. what they're thinking? oh, conyeah. analogies there is no >> yeah. analogies there is no logic to lewis. >> is a logic. >> there is a logic. >> there is a logic. >> well, there is a logic, but it's not one that anyone else can going can understand what's going on in brains right now, in people's brains right now, does match what we think it does it match what we think it should ? should? >> but that doesn't mean it has any harmful the day any harmful effect. on the day to day. i don't believe that the denial of a biological reality does on people on a does have harm on people on a day day basis. day to day basis. >> of course it does. anyway let's move now to a question let's move on now to a question from simon. is simone? simone from simon. is it simone? simone or yes. thank you. sorry or simone? yes. thank you. sorry >> have the church of england run critical race theory run the critical race theory kool aid. >> well , potentially. so the >> well, potentially. so the church of england have hired a deconstructing whiteness officer to combat racial injustice. this is 36 grand a year. that's not bad. >> fantastic . >> fantastic. >> fantastic. >> to deconstruct whiteness, to deconstruct how do you do that, by the way? >> i've got absolutely no idea. but for 36 grand a year, i'd give it a go. yeah, i could, i could come up with some criteria for some. >> why does the church need to

deconstruct why? >> that's a question, >> that's a great question, andrew. would that we andrew. you would think that we were made in god's image and were all made in god's image and that really be that they wouldn't really be that they wouldn't really be that with colour. yeah that they wouldn't really be thatwould with colour. yeah that they wouldn't really be thatwould think/ith colour. yeah that they wouldn't really be thatwould think so. colour. yeah that they wouldn't really be thatwould think so. but»ur. yeah you would think so. but apparently they are. yeah, certainly. apparently they are. yeah, cenl inly. the church of >> i mean, the church of england, which is very closely affiliated anglican affiliated with lots of anglican churches africa and, you churches across africa and, you know, assume they know, you would assume they don't problem. don't have a race problem. >> that's what i assume. >> that's exactly what i assume. i personally don't know of any cases of anybody up to cases of anybody turning up to the and being turned away the church and being turned away based really don't based on their they really don't do not something do that. it's not something i'm aware almost as aware of. so it's almost as though it wasn't the church's idea. i wonder if some activists are involved. idea. i wonder if some activists are well, led. idea. i wonder if some activists are well, maybe, but this is what idea. i wonder if some activists amean. , maybe, but this is what idea. i wonder if some activists amean. louis. be, but this is what idea. i wonder if some activists amean. louis. everything's; what idea. i wonder if some activists amean. louis. everything's been: i mean. louis. everything's been captured you captured by this stuff. do you want to deconstruct your whiteness? >> i don't consider myself white. >> no, i forgot about that. sorry. yes, you forgot about that. >> e raised as jews >> we were raised as jews in new york. there white people, york. there were white people, but lived across the bay in but they lived across the bay in manhasset. consider ourselves manhasset. we consider ourselves black. sorry. black. really? uh i'm sorry. >> wait a minute. i can make my peace you saying, well, i'm peace with you saying, well, i'm jewish, necessarily jewish, so i don't necessarily concern myself, to say you concern myself, but to say you consider after consider yourself black after question sorry. question that. lewis. sorry. yeah. sounds shocking. yeah. no it sounds shocking. >> you know. that's what. that's

why you say obviously >> you know. that's what. that's why black, you say obviously >> you know. that's what. that's why black, allu say obviously >> you know. that's what. that's why black, all these )bviously they're black, all these questions nuances . we questions have such nuances. we were black. we weren't black like slave black. but we took the side of the black people. we were we thought we were just going to be as we were , as going to be as we were, as oppressed as black people . and oppressed as black people. and we knew who the white people were . were. >> you're like, you're saying you're steve in the you're like steve martin in the jerk. you know, was raised by you're like steve martin in the jeblacku know, was raised by you're like steve martin in the jeblack family, was raised by you're like steve martin in the je black family and was raised by you're like steve martin in the je black family and thoughted by you're like steve martin in the je black family and thought he )y a black family and thought he was black until the fateful day when adopted says, when his adopted mother says, sorry, you're not. is that what you're about? you're talking about? >> know what? when >> but you know what? even when your you're not, your mother says you're not, that it's going to that doesn't mean it's going to change entire lifetime of change your entire lifetime of thinking. i know it's shocking to believe, like, right now, to believe, but like, right now, because are with because white jews are with white people, they're associated with white people. back in with white people. but back in the weren't. okay, okay, the day, we weren't. okay, okay, louis, move on louis, i've got to move on because, know, you've just because, you know, you've just outed yourself as black. because, you know, you've just out so yourself as black. because, you know, you've just out so it's'self as black. because, you know, you've just out so it's importantick. because, you know, you've just out so it's important that we >> so it's important that we keep this in some level of order. let's on a order. let's move on to a question peter. where's question from peter. where's peter? peter. peter? hi, peter. >> you go to prison >> um, should you go to prison for putting up stickers? really >> question. this is >> good question. so this is the, of samuel the, uh, prosecution of samuel

melia found guilty melia, uh, who was found guilty of inciting racial hatred after a series of stickering incidents. now have you read about this? this is an interesting one, because, as, um, samuel melia is, uh, part of a far right group. um, they were disseminate stickers saying things like , uh, second things like, uh, second generation, third, fourth, you have to go back so unpleasant, deeply unpleasant, uh, sentiments on these stickers. i really get nervous about this idea that someone who puts stickers up should go to prison for it. i don't care if i thoroughly disapprove of what they're what they're thinking or saying, which i do in this case. i just don't think it should be a matter for the law to get involved with. >> right. well, that's that's really interesting, it? really interesting, isn't it? whether be done whether it should be done because used to hearing because we're so used to hearing far right. and usually you think, oh this is an think, oh yeah, this is an example of, as you very, example of, as you say, very, very disturbing, ideas. very disturbing, hateful ideas. and things that this and one of the things that this guy defence was that guy said in his defence was that he trying to start he was trying to start conversations, which is conversations, really, which is well, yeah, well, look , point

well, yeah, well, look, my point is when comes to free is that when it comes to free speech, just defend speech, you can't just defend the speech that you like. >> you have to be able to you have to be able to defend the speech that you hate as well. and hate yes, but and i hate racism, yes, but i have to defend the rights of racists to say whatever they want. unfortunately want. well, yes, unfortunately youand if you want to, >> and i guess if you want to, you can set up your own counter stickers and go and put them up like festival. i've like edinburgh festival. i've already their posters already putting their posters on each other's. yes um, yeah, i don't i'm not comfortable with him imprisoned. don't i'm not comfortable with him verynprisoned. don't i'm not comfortable with him very tricky, red. don't i'm not comfortable with him very tricky, isn't it, >> it's very tricky, isn't it, lewis? because you always get this with free speech advocates is they they is that, you know, they they stand stuff they stand up for the stuff they agree and then they of agree with and then they sort of stop i think if you stop short. and i think if you if you're for free speech, you have to for be everyone's speech. >> uh, come on, lewis, you're gonna come up with a gonna have to come up with a contrary position, because i know you're you're fishing. >> i'm not fishing for it. i just think, stickering. i have. you to get a sticker off you tried to get a sticker off of some things. it's like impossible. it's such a mess. it causes and he's causes a mess. and he's advocating basically the destruction advocating basically the des so :tion advocating basically the desso this is a vandalism issue. >> so this is a vandalism issue. it is a vandal.

>> so he's advocating vandalism. should be illegal? the should that be illegal? the answer is don't think answer is i don't think advocates should advocates of vandalism should be legal. you legal. can i can i ask you though, lewis, seriously, on a free speech issue, are there any lines you? i am a free lines for you? i am a free speech well, speech absolutist. until well, it me. speech absolutist. until well, it there me. speech absolutist. until well, it there we. speech absolutist. until well, it there we go. so so. >> there we go. so so. >> and i think everybody you can do what you want as long as you don't criticise. lewis schaffer do what you want as long as you dam criticise. lewis schaffer do what you want as long as you dam and cise. lewis schaffer do what you want as long as you dam and i se. lewis schaffer do what you want as long as you dam and i think wis schaffer do what you want as long as you dam and i think whatchaffer do what you want as long as you dam and i think what thiser do what you want as long as you dam and i think what this guy i am and i think what this guy for to put in jail for for him to be put in jail for this, you notice he's a right wing extremist. they just are looking like right looking for like right wing extremists there's extremists because there's so many put many stickers being put up around everywhere go around town. everywhere i go there stickers being put up there are stickers being put up around and nobody's around town and nobody's being prosecuted very hateful things. >> you just have to be >> i think you just have to be consistent about this. you know, i've some the preachers i've seen some of the preachers on screaming about on the street screaming about how gay people are evil and should be arrested all the should be arrested and all the rest i don't want rest of it, like, i don't want those people arrested. i don't like they're but like what they're saying, but i'm with i'm more uncomfortable with empowering the state to lock up whoever want whatever whoever they want for whatever they me, is more they say. that, to me, is more of a threat. they say. that, to me, is more of (absolutely. because you can't >> absolutely. because you can't guarantee what state guarantee that what the state are think of what you are going to think of what you think one day. well, you want a

fair that be fair system that will be consistent time. yeah. consistent over time. yeah. >> pretty stuff. >> it's pretty scary stuff. anyway, we're going to move on to from armin. to a question now from armin. uh, good evening. uh, hi, armin. good evening. >> um, good evening andrew. and everybody um, lee anderson, everybody was, um, lee anderson, right sadiq khan of right to accuse sadiq khan of what done to london? what he's done to london? i mean, what do you think? >> i'm going to come straight back you about that? well back to you about that? well i have to say that i don't see london it used be. london how it used to be. >> you i used to love >> you know, i used to love coming into london and even going on the underground. it's not clean anymore not that clean anymore and things that. i've things like that. and i've noficed noticed a real change. >> so think khan is an >> so you think khan is an ineffective mayor? absolutely >> and i also think that his congestion, he's congestion, where he's he's trying to put the bicycle lanes, is caused more is actually caused more congestion. the ltns congestion. and the ltn ltns he's put everywhere it's created a lot of. >> but isn't that question of whether he's an effective mayor on a kind governmental level on a kind of governmental level different the comments different to the comments that he , uh, different to the comments that he , uh, the lee he made regarding, uh, the lee anderson , rather, these, these anderson, rather, these, these accusations against sadiq khan? i mean, that's a different issue, isn't it? what do you think are those. >> well, i think lee anderson's

probably asking the question, what lot of people are what a lot of people are thinking. and i think lee anderson losing his job was basically what a high a lot of majority of the country were thinking, particularly over london. well, i mean, well, let's bring krista in on this because, you know, one of the criticisms that a lot of people have said, i mean, the way it was phrased by lee anderson about that keep about this idea that we keep heanng about this idea that we keep hearing language hearing about the language that islamists in of islamists are in control of sadiq khan, i don't think sadiq khan, which i don't think is what he meant to say. is quite what he meant to say. >> think what he was trying to >> i think what he was trying to suggest is that that he was letting them get away with murder. >> he's referring to what we hear tier policing. hear of as two tier policing. yeah. so we've just about yeah. so we've just heard about the guy imprisoned the sticker guy being imprisoned and would say, well, and some people would say, well, why allowed chant why are you allowed to chant from the to the sea, etc? from the river to the sea, etc? these slogans apparently not these slogans and apparently not face any consequences? >> well, there've people >> well, there've been people calling right? >> so, so lee anderson is >> so, so, so lee anderson is speaking for in some speaking for people in some sense, that he's expressing sense, in that he's expressing a frustration feel. frustration that people feel. yes. which an old yes. which is like an old classic, it? classic, isn't it? >> what i mean, what do you >> and what i mean, what do you think, louis? because, you know,

speaking as a jewish person in the when the middle of london, when there's people there's a lot of people gathering, um, and i would say that the majority of those people have animosity people don't have animosity towards but there towards the jews, but there are certainly who certainly people there who do. and seen open evidence and i've seen some open evidence of openly anti—semitic, um, of some openly anti—semitic, um, protestors saying, protesting protestors or saying, protesting things. but like i say i'm for things. but i like i say i'm for peaceful protest , and things. but i like i say i'm for peaceful protest, and i don't think i wouldn't want to smear all of the people at those protests that but protests with that brush. but how you feel about it? well how do you feel about it? well i think they're blaming sadiq khan for . for this. >> and the fact is, is that this is the city that he's the mayor of. is the city that he's the mayor of has is the city that he's the mayor of. has he been controlled? i don't think he's controlled old. i don't think it's like, is he just at his job? no, he's just bad at his job? no, he's not his job. he's doing not bad at his job. he's doing a great job for the people of london. >> well, what about what amin was saying about the state was just saying about the state of the tube and these basic sort of the tube and these basic sort of everyday things matter of everyday things that matter to london? >> another question. to london? >> he's)ther question. to london? >> he's good.|uestion. to london? >> he's good. buttion. to london? >> he's good. but in1. to london? >> he's good. but in terms whether he's good. but in terms of the, ideology of providing the, the ideology for the people, l he's, the for the people, l he's, he's the man the he's not man of the people. he's not under control. he is, he under their control. he is, he is. and the question is whether this is i've lived in this

this city is i've lived in this city for years. it's for many city for 24 years. it's for many people think it's way better than to be. i mean, the than it used to be. i mean, the fact that i'm living here is an improvement. fact that i'm living here is an imfthatnent. fact that i'm living here is an imfthatnean improvement. there >> that is an improvement. there is. will back you up on that. is. i will back you up on that. now, on free nation, now, next on free speech nation, amy carol sherwood amy gallagher and carol sherwood will studio to discuss will be in the studio to discuss amy's important documentary, amy's important new documentary, heresies how psychology went mad, carol is going to be mad, and carol is going to be talking about her campaign to restore sanity to mental health care. please don't go anywhere

we' re -- we're not. we're not done. >> we're not done. and welcome back to free speech nation, an important new documentary premiered last week, part of the new culture forum heresies series. >> it's called trans racist and woke how psychology went mad . woke how psychology went mad. let's take a look more and more of us are looking out at our culture and society and feel like we are observed in a psychiatric ward. >> male rapists in women's prisons, racial segregation in schools, the censorship of books and the rewriting of history. the world's gone mad. many of us cw the world's gone mad. many of us cry . but do we the world's gone mad. many of us cry. but do we even the world's gone mad. many of us cry . but do we even know what cry. but do we even know what madness is anymore ? have our madness is anymore? have our mental health professionals got our best interests at heart ? is our best interests at heart? is sanity still the goal ? or sanity still the goal? or instead, as the psychiatric profession become a battleground for warring versions of reality , for warring versions of reality, with the patients sacrificed and made a casualty of the cause .

made a casualty of the cause. now that film was written and presented by amy gallagher, who joins me now, i'm also joined by doctor carol sherwood, who is about to launch her save mental health campaign. >> welcome to amy and carol, who eamonn . let's start with you. eamonn. let's start with you. um, now you presented this film, you this film, but you you wrote this film, but you have an interesting backstory now. have been on this show now. you have been on this show to but perhaps you to explain it, but perhaps you could again. were could explain it again. you were training psychotherapist. yeah. >> so i'm a mental health nurse and training as a psycho and i was training as a psycho therapist tavistock and therapist at the tavistock and portman. i was in my final years of psycho of training as a psycho therapist, essentially what therapist, and essentially what i they were i saw was that they were teaching critical race theory as if was fact. so they sent if it was a fact. so they sent round lecture titled whiteness round a lecture titled whiteness from of our time. um, from a problem of our time. um, and in they made lots of and in it they made lots of generalised about people and in it they made lots of genereonad about people and in it they made lots of genereon their about people and in it they made lots of genereon their skin about people and in it they made lots of genereon their skin colour. 3eople and in it they made lots of genereon their skin colour. so ple based on their skin colour. so i disagreed with this, and i said that there be an that there needed to be an alternative opinion. and what followed, i could never have predicted, but was two predicted, but it was like two years of bullying, victimisation, telling me that i'd inappropriate, i

i'd been inappropriate, that i shouldn't enter the profession, and stopped and eventually they stopped me from my clinical work. so i'm still kind essentially still kind of essentially cancelled profession . cancelled from the profession. >> quite astonishing. >> and that's quite astonishing. i mean were one point, i mean, they were at one point, correct if i'm wrong, correct me if i'm wrong, but they effectively saying they were effectively saying that a white that unless you as a white person, admit that you are racist, you can't be a psychotherapist. well, there actually that can't actually saying that you can't disagree race disagree with critical race theory, you've described. >> so i was advocating the >> so i was advocating for the colour—blind approach race, colour—blind approach to race, which not judging which is that not judging a person by the colour their person by the colour of their skin and treating everyone equally. said that that equally. and they said that that was outdated was discredited and outdated and that be on board that i needed to be on board with, with their ideas. um, and what ensued just what ensued was just essentially, what ensued was just ess

>> it is frightening . andrew and >> it is frightening. andrew and my freedom of information survey that i did of uk clinical psychology courses a couple of years ago, showed that this worldview has been adopted. it's widespread in clinical training programs and in the nhs more generally , and so it's a real generally, and so it's a real concern that the future generation of therapists are being trained . and to see the being trained. and to see the world through identity politics. >> now, how would that affect a patient if they're talking about privilege and obsessing about privilege and obsessing about privilege someone a patient, privilege and someone a patient, say, a patient is white and they encourage them to focus on that when all when they're suffering from all these other forms of trauma that's entirely that's getting it entirely backwards, that's getting it entirely backwarcand it's completely >> it is. and it's completely unethical . but >> it is. and it's completely unethical. but this is what is going to happen. we know this because it's actually happening in states . yes. so you will in the states. yes. so you will be a straight white man going for perhaps you're really for help perhaps you're really depressed and anxious about losing job and what you losing your job and what you will be is, well , what can

will be told is, well, what can you expect? you are a straight white man. you are at the root of your own problems. you're patriarch bill and you're a racist . how is that ethical? racist. how is that ethical? i mean , this is unbelievable. mean, this is unbelievable. >> so i mean, the idea that it's so deeply embedded that they're going to promote this divisive idea within the nhs, just idea within the nhs, i just think shocking. think is absolutely shocking. um, defence for um, what is their defence for this, what are they this, amy? what are they suggesting, suggesting what's their the story? suggesting, suggesting what's the well, the story? suggesting, suggesting what's the well, as the story? suggesting, suggesting what's the well, as i he story? suggesting, suggesting what's the well, as i explore ? suggesting, suggesting what's the well, as i explore in the >> well, as i explore in the documentary, what happened many, many ago was that there many years ago was that there was fusion psychoanalytic was a fusion of psychoanalytic ideas with critical theory, which marxist project. which is a marxist project. >> so what we've seen is that there's been a politicisation of psychology in general. so they really believe this. they believe that the answer to all of our problems is a kind of a communist . um, that communist revolution. um, that the believers in that the true believers in that sense, and there's no arguing with otherwise. so they, with them otherwise. so they, they would they believe in things like unconscious so things like unconscious bias. so if disagree , for example, if you disagree, for example, i disagreed concept of disagreed with the concept of white would white privilege. so they would argue that i'm disagreeing because because of a psychological defence mechanism,

that means that i don't want to admit my own racism, that that that's the kind of argument that we see with people like robin d'angelo critical social d'angelo or critical social justice or justice psychologists or psychotherapists that if you disagree with an idea, it's not because you thought it because you thought about it rationally logically, rationally and logically, and you've evidence you've looked at the evidence and to a conclusion, and you've come to a conclusion, it's because your unconscious doesn't to admit certain doesn't want to admit certain things. is things. so what we're seeing is a weaponization of psychology and concepts more and psychological concepts more broadly for political gain. essentially, that's how i see it. >> and, carol, i ..._ >> and, carol, i mean, it. >> and, carol, i mean, that the way that that's been outlined is, is, is, is absolutely chilling because we see this now in all areas of life where you are expected to be a politically in lockstep to whatever the authority any authority figures within any given can believe. given institution can believe. what happened to diversity? what happened to living in a plural society in a liberal society? >> exactly . and what we're >> exactly. and what we're finding certainly with training courses , is that the trainees courses, is that the trainees are expected to conform to this worldview. if any of them try to speak up their silence and

they're told they have privilege and they must shut up and so they're not actually getting a proper training, they're actually downgrading expertise . actually downgrading expertise. they're told we are going to be non—exec . that's lived non—exec. that's lived experience of mental health is considered more important, a quality to have in order to work with people with mental health problems than having expertise. well, you wouldn't want to go and see a surgeon, would you? who actually to well , who actually said to you, well, um, actually, i don't aim to be an expert. it has consequences. >> it's an equivalent, isn't it? absolutely. it is. so. so, amy, you thought of making this documentary and where how did this come about? yeah. >> i, i mean, i did an >> so i, i mean, i did an interview with new cultural forum what happened forum about what happened to me in legal over a year in my legal case over a year ago. now and i've sort of been involved them going involved with them going forward. offered me forward. um, and they offered me the a documentary, the chance to do a documentary, i guess what i wanted to pose as a question was how in the last ten years, we've seen more and more increasing conversations about mental health. we're always therapy always we see a kind of therapy speak culture.

speak dominating our culture. we're about we're always talking about psychological concepts so psychological concepts and so on. we see we don't seem on. and yet we see we don't seem to be getting happier. if to be getting happier. and if anything, society seems anything, the our society seems to be getting bit madder. to be getting a bit madder. i mean, we're seeing, you know, in terms it's terms of free speech, it's something you care about something i know you care about strongly. of strongly. we're seeing kind of weaponized of psychology weaponized ation of psychology where disagree with where if you disagree with someone, will told that someone, you will be told that you've caused some trauma or you've caused some trauma or you've they need safe you've caused they need a safe space their for space for their for psychological harm, or that they need trigger warnings to prevent themselves from experiencing psychological . this goes psychological harm. this goes against the ethics of and all that, the evidence of psychology which would which which would teach resilience need to resilience that you need to expose to different expose yourself to different ideas and different, you know, things you're scared of in things that you're scared of in order to strengthen yourself. >> this is fundamentally anti—scientific. >> it's anti —scientific anti—scientific. >> it's anti—scientific anti therapeutic . um, >> it's anti—scientific anti therapeutic. um, and as i say in therapeutic. um, and as i say in the documentary, what's happened is increasing is there's been an increasing amount ideology into amount of ideology entering into psychology. there's a history to that. but we've seen it most sharply with the medical scandal happening at the tavistock. yes um, which you know, people are saying we've got all this

awareness of mental health. how could this happen in and my documentary to explain could this happen in and my docuessentially to explain could this happen in and my docuessentially i to explain could this happen in and my docuessentially i understand that essentially i understand now, carol, so you're starting your own campaign. >> your save mental >> this is your save mental health campaign, which is obviously these obviously related to these issues. tell us a issues. can you tell us just a little about that? yes, indeed. >> it's an alliance of psychologists and psychotherapists, researchers and , and we're all and academics, and we're all sharing our concern about the madness that we're seeing in our professions . and we want to professions. and we want to actually restore some sanity to mental health care. and so we want to actually make public our concerns . we have some really concerns. we have some really troubling stories , uh, of what troubling stories, uh, of what is happening in the professions. so we want to make those public. we also want to put pressure on government , on politicians. government, on politicians. we're actually working with the free speech union because we're concerned about the effects of cancel culture on people's mental health. and so they're hoping that we can do some research with them about that. >> fantastic. well, where can people find out about this ? people find out more about this? >> website, which is >> go to our website, which is save mental uk. and if

save mental health uk. and if you are on ecs and you want to follow us on ecs, we're at save mh uk. >> thank you very much. and amy, very finally, could you just tell can we your documentary? >> so my documentary is on youtube. it's called trans racist woke. how psychology racist and woke. how psychology went is with cultural went mad is with new cultural forum you can find more forum and you can find more about my legal case at gofundme . about my legal case at gofundme. forward up to woke . forward slash stand up to woke. >> but they go to the new >> but if they go to the new culture forum website on youtube, right there. youtube, it'll be right there. yep yeah, yep that's right. yeah, fantastic. and carol, thank fantastic. amy and carol, thank you both so much. and next on free speech nation , i'm going to free speech nation, i'm going to be talking about how a well—meaning but ill informed mps seem to want to set gay rights back by decades. so you shortly

good. ten 10s 10s. yeah. yeah. good. ten 10s10s. yeah. yeah. foun good. ten 10s10s. yeah. yeah. four. three. >> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. on friday, there was a heated debate in the house of commons about conversion therapy. emotions ran high and few were more impassioned than the conservative mp alicia kearns, who berated alba mp neale hanvey for appealing on behalf of the lgb community. so here's how that exchange went . that exchange went. >> people in the lgbt community are often referred to as bigots and trans phobes and other slurs. just because we have concerns about legislation such as this, and we want to make

sure that young lgbt people are protected and trans people . does protected and trans people. does she agree with me that that must apply? that rule must apply to all sides of any debate and not just one side that she favours is absolutely right . is absolutely right. >> but there was one one digit messaging from his lgb , lgbt. we messaging from his lgb, lgbt. we do not divide the lgbt community in this place. you can say that you have concerns about what we're doing, but by removing the t, you are suggesting that transgender people do not exist. you are suggesting that they are lesser than other lgb people, and will not stand for that, and i will not stand for that, because it was trans people who stood with people at stood with gay people at stonewall. trans people stonewall. it was trans people who alongside for lgbt who fought alongside for lgbt rights. when you say lgbt, rights. so when you say lgbt, you suggest when you remove the t, you suggest that they are lesser . lesser. >> now it's clear to me that alicia kearns is well—intentioned and sincere, and i mean no disrespect when i say that this is a subject about which she clearly knows very little, and that is dangerous, because if she gets her way on

this issue, will set back gay this issue, it will set back gay rights by decades. let's rights by decades. so let's address some of the key misconceptions. so firstly, kearns that hanvey was kearns claimed that hanvey was suggesting that transgender people exist, and at no people don't exist, and at no point did he make such a claim sexual orientation and the belief in gender identity are totally unrelated concepts. kearns seems to be suggesting that gay people have no right to campaign for their interests unless they simultaneously campaign for trans people. but why? groups such as mermaids campaign solely for trans rights. are they therefore homophobes phobic? perhaps alicia kearns would like to berate them in parliament. i look forward to seeing that kearns went on to say that it was trans people who stood with the gays at stonewall. trans people fought together for lgbt rights , did they? i mean, there rights, did they? i mean, there were some trans people involved in the struggle for gay rights, certainly, but not all that many. the activists who changed history for the better were predominantly lesbians and gay men at the stonewall inn, it was mostly gay men with some

lesbians and drag queens who were in the riots, were involved in the riots, and it was likely a lesbian storme delarverie, who sparked the whole thing . after police whole thing. after the police raided the she was being raided the bar, she was being forcibly and is said to forcibly arrested and is said to have shouted to the crowd, aren't going to do something aren't you going to do something now? trans activists have now? some trans activists have since attempted to rewrite history, claiming that a trans woman called marsha p johnson threw the first brick at the stonewall inn . the trouble is, stonewall inn. the trouble is, marsha p johnson wasn't trans. he was a drag queen and he wasn't even there when the rioting started. now if alicia kearns wants to know about the actual history of stonewall, not the revisionist fabrications of activists , she could read activists, she could read stonewall the riots that sparked the gay revolution by david carter, or she could talk to someone who was actually there, such as the gay rights veteran fred sargeant . now, let's talk fred sargeant. now, let's talk about the confusion that's at the heart of this parliamentary debate . what exactly debate. what exactly is conversion therapy? a yougov poll last year revealed that 65% of voters believe that gay

conversion therapy ought to be banned , and 62% feel the same banned, and 62% feel the same about trans conversion therapy. and this would suggest that most voters do not recognise the difference between the two, and nor do many politicians. now this photograph was taken in westminster hall. a cross party collective of dozens of mps , collective of dozens of mps, with a placard that reads i support a trans inclusive ban on and the image was posted on twitter by labour mp for nottingham east, nadia whittome. in truth , and without realising in truth, and without realising it, these politicians are supporting a new form of gay conversion therapy, something that most of us thought would be consigned to the history books by this point. when we hear that phrase conversion therapy, most of our minds to a variety of our minds leap to a variety of our minds leap to a variety of horrific practices. so in america, christian fundamentalists have established programs to address the problem of homosexuality . there are of homosexuality. there are camps young people can camps where young people can pray gay away , which i pray the gay away, which i suppose is at least a step forward from brain surgery. castration and the kind of electric shock treatment

favoured by scientific practitioners in the 20th century, or the corrective rape of lesbians to cure them of homosexual tendencies . that homosexual tendencies. that still goes on in some countries. such practices are, of course , such practices are, of course, already illegal in the uk. so why the need for a conversion therapy ban? well what's happening is there is a conflation of sexual orientation and gender identity. and this is why so many are confused in her book time to think, hannah barnes revealed that between 80 to 90% of adolescents who were referred to the tavistock paediatric gender clinic with same sex attracted . we've known same sex attracted. we've known for a long time there's a strong correlation between gender nonconformity and youth and being gay in adult life, members of the tavistock itself joked that soon there would be no gay people left . whistleblowers people left. whistleblowers revealed that homophobia was endemic. in other words, child men who are likely to grow up gay are being fixed by medical practitioners to better conform with stereotypical heterosexual paradigms. barnes research shows

that the tavistock clinic and this is a quote ignored evidence that 97.5% of children seek sex changes had autism , depression changes had autism, depression or other problems that might have explained their unhappiness . there are only 2% of the country's children that suffer from an autistic spectrum disorder . so why from an autistic spectrum disorder. so why is it that from an autistic spectrum disorder . so why is it that 35% disorder. so why is it that 35% of referrals to the tavistock fit into that category in almost all instances, children who are prescribed puberty blockers go on to cross—sex hormones, which in some cases leads to irreversible surgery . we're irreversible surgery. we're deaung irreversible surgery. we're dealing here overwhelmingly with gay and autistic children , fast gay and autistic children, fast tracked onto a pathway to sterilisation. this is what mps such as lloyd russell—moyle and alicia kearns and keir starmer are supporting, alicia kearns and keir starmer are supporting , whether they are supporting, whether they realise it or not. now, thankfully, more and more people are waking up to the scale of this problem, so recently the equalities minister, kemi badenoch, wrote to the commons women equalities select women and equalities select committee about her discussions

with former clinicians at the tavistock and the conclusion so—called gender affirmative care among its to what she described as conversion therapy for gay kids and, crucially , she for gay kids and, crucially, she cited a survey of detransitioners these are people who have been pressurised into transitioning and they later regret it, in which 23% of respondents put their determination to transition down to experiences of homophobia. badenoch quoted a gender clinic in germany . they said it must be in germany. they said it must be understood that early hormone therapy may interfere with the patient's development as a homosexual. this may not be in the interests of patients who, as a result of hormone therapy, can no longer have the decisive experiences that enable them to establish a homosexual identity . establish a homosexual identity. it is profoundly disturbing that starmer's labour party is now officially supporting gay conversion therapy in the form of a ban on trans inclusive conversion therapy, and that he is gaining cross—party support

now. a charitable interpretation is that starmer, cairns russell—moyle whitham, all the other mps who are supporting this simply do not understand that they are advancing dangerously anti—gay proposals. they are supporting the new section 28 and all the while they think they're doing the precise opposite . if any of precise opposite. if any of these politicians would like to come on to this show and discuss these issues, i would be delighted them consider delighted to have them consider it invitation . in the it an open invitation. in the meantime, i'd like to remind parliament that homosexuality was removed from the world health organisation's list of psychiatric disorders back in 1993. being gay is not a medical condition that requires treatment . unfortunately, treatment. unfortunately, activists have been remarkably successful in confusing the issues through semantic ambiguities and the redefinition of terms . and so, though it's of terms. and so, though it's although it sounds desperately countering intuitive, the truth is that in order to oppose gay conversion therapy, one must be opposed to a ban on trans

conversion therapy . so next on conversion therapy. so next on free speech nation, we're going to be hearing a story which has major implications for free speech. as police in bristol back down attempting to back down after attempting to silence a christian street preacher from criticising other religions and even atheism. don't go anywhere .

for. welcome back to free speech nation. avon and somerset police backed down this week in a story which has significant implications for free speech, particularly in the present climate. the force have announced they were announced that they were disproportionate in their attempts prevent bristol attempts to prevent a bristol based moodley , based preacher, dia moodley, from criticising other religions and atheists . so to discuss and atheists. so to discuss this, i'm joined barrister this, i'm joined by barrister and legal counsel for adf uk , and legal counsel for adf uk, lorcan price. lorcan, welcome to the show. >> thank you andrew. can you tell a bit about this? tell us a bit about this? >> because the that someone >> because the idea that someone wouldn't able to criticise wouldn't be able to criticise religion criticise an religion or to criticise an atheist, a bit atheist, even it sounds a bit mad, is that, certainly. mad, it is that, certainly. >> and think police >> and i think the police eventually that and eventually recognised that and that's they settled the that's why they settled the case. but what happened was essentially they gave a conditional warning or a caution to dia saying that if you were going to preach, you had to get their and consent their approval and their consent beforehand. wanted beforehand. so they wanted a situation where situation essentially where almost had to run his almost you had to run his remarks by them. and he was expressly forbidden for expressly forbidden then for criticising and criticising other religions and even . so what the even atheism. so what what the police are trying to do in this

circumstance is very difficult. to kind of really get to the bottom is that they're trying bottom of is that they're trying to essentially create zone in to essentially create a zone in pubuc to essentially create a zone in public anything that might public where anything that might be possible be upsetting to any possible person censored, is it person is censored, or is it that just simply don't like that they just simply don't like to christian in public? >> well, some people going >> well, some people are going to confused because we to be a bit confused because we did have hizb ut—tahrir standing on of london calling did have hizb ut—tahrir standing on jihad of london calling did have hizb ut—tahrir standing on jihad and of london calling did have hizb ut—tahrir standing on jihad and the london calling did have hizb ut—tahrir standing on jihad and the police| calling did have hizb ut—tahrir standing on jihad and the police put ling did have hizb ut—tahrir standing on jihad and the police put out forjihad and the police put out a tweet saying, well, you know, jihad is not that it can jihad is not that bad. it can mean all sorts of lovely things. i so this idea of two tier i mean, so this idea of two tier policing, phrase you policing, which is a phrase you hear lot, it does have hear an awful lot, it does have some doesn't it? some validity, doesn't it? >> does. i mean, >> it certainly does. i mean, we've looking at these we've been looking at these cases over the last number of years. just example. years. diaz is just one example. we von spruce, who we have isabel von spruce, who was arrested by five police officers praying silently officers for praying silently in her a slightly her head. uh, that's a slightly different under public different law under public spaces order, we have spaces protection order, we have another connor. another man, adam smith. connor. again who again down in bournemouth, who was praying was arrested for praying silently in his head. so it's hard say that there's not hard to say that there's not a clear kind of clear emerging kind of distinction between islam and christianity. these distinction between islam and chri in anity. these distinction between islam and chri in those these distinction between islam and chri in those cases, these distinction between islam and chri in those cases, that'sthese distinction between islam and chri in those cases, that's about say in those cases, that's about violating the exclusion zones around clinics .

around the abortion clinics. >> any merit to that? >> is there any merit to that? >> is there any merit to that? >> well, look at how one >> well, if you look at how one of the exclusion zones was designed, expressly forbid designed, it expressly forbid christian crossing christian the bible crossing yourself prayers . yourself or christian prayers. so clearly an example so that's clearly an example of something targeted at something that is targeted at one over another. one religion over another. >> know, are >> but, you know, we are entitled criticise entitled to criticise christianity and the tenets of the bible as much the bible just as much as we should able criticise any should be able to criticise any belief system or no belief system, in the case of dia system, as in the case of dia moodley criticising atheism . i moodley criticising atheism. i mean, seems like an atheist mean, this seems like an atheist is not a protected characteristic under equality law, right? >> well, your belief is the >> well, your belief is and the problem have is that i problem we have here is that i think authorities , uh, think the authorities, uh, council officials and police seem to feel that the purpose of policing public space now is policing the public space now is to anything might to erase anything that might upset and that instinct upset anybody. and that instinct towards censorship, i think, is coming the top, from coming from the very top, from the and sadly, from the home office and sadly, from government as well, government ministers as well, where sense we where there's a sense that we have control being have to control what's being said public for fear that it said in public for fear that it might instability might create instability or upset in doing upset anybody. but in doing that, you really cripple a democracy where you should be heanng democracy where you should be hearing you hearing challenging views. you should that you should hear things that make you ask questions why you ask questions about why you believe incitement believe things incitement to violence very different

violence is a very different category, seen category, and sadly, we've seen some protests in some of that in protests in recent months in the streets of our cities. when it comes to our cities. but when it comes to raising criticising, raising questions, criticising, debating, those debating, censoring those things, which is something, again, we're seeing officials things, which is something, agaipolice'e seeing officials things, which is something, agaipolice officers] officials things, which is something, agaipolice officers feelcials things, which is something, agaipolice officers feel that and police officers feel that they to really leaves us they need to do really leaves us with very truncated and with a very truncated and anaemic democracy. >> my understanding of >> but my understanding of equality equality act equality law or the equality act is you have protected is that you have protected beliefs, as in you can hold and express beliefs, but that isn't a protection from criticism . a protection from criticism. >> not. no. and >> i'm certainly not. no. and how could it be? i mean, if you have a situation where people are i cannot exposed are saying i cannot be exposed to view questions my to any view that questions my fundamental then you're to any view that questions my fu|a amental then you're to any view that questions my fu|a situation then you're to any view that questions my fu|a situation where then you're to any view that questions my fu|a situation where you n you're to any view that questions my fu|a situation where you can't 're in a situation where you can't raise anything about climate for change can't change example, or you can't criticise , uh, transgender criticise, uh, transgender ideology even other ideology or even other religions. and so, again , how do religions. and so, again, how do you or even discuss you challenge or even discuss some of the biggest issues in our society, if that was the case, very much as case, it feels very much as though just the police, though not just the police, but the governments the various governments are focusing particular focusing their ire on particular groups and excusing others. >> and ireland we have this >> and in ireland we have this terrible hate speech bill which is going through, and that sounds draconian.

sounds particularly draconian. i know into know you've been looking into this, haven't you? >> yes. i'm discussing this with a of different a number of different politicians dublin politicians in dublin at the moment. a really extreme moment. it's a really extreme example trend we've seen example of a trend we've seen across again, the across europe, where again, the instinct trying instinct is towards trying to shut views that might shut down any views that might be seen as undermining the prevailing of orthodoxy or prevailing kind of orthodoxy or the views are held the popular views that are held by political and by the political and institutional so the institutional elite. so the irish much further. irish law goes much further. it creates undefined gender identity categories. it doesn't define hate and it define what hate is, and it creates a situation where even possessing with the intent to supply memes or jokes or books can be a crime. in and of itself. >> but if the bill, as it does, defines hatred as hatred, because i've read it myself, you know, and this going to know, then and this is going to be bill. this is a form of be a bill. this is a form of legislation that enables the state and incarcerate state to arrest and incarcerate its . shouldn't it be its citizens. shouldn't it be more specific about the wording of legislation? more specific about the wording of le absolutely. it's a more specific about the wording of leabsolutely. it's a long >> well, absolutely. it's a long standing principle of the law that you're going to that if you're going to criminalise something, people should what should know precisely what the criminal should know precisely what the cnrhave should know precisely what the crirhave a recursive definition we have a recursive definition that own that relies on its own definition to justify it. so it's absurd . but it's it's absolutely absurd. but it's

part a trend that we've part of a trend that we've discussed before with cases in europe country europe and in this country as well. effect well. it's the chilling effect of never knowing whether or not what you're saying might be a crime. so i'd better not say it then not say then i'd better not say something controversial fear something controversial for fear that arrested, or the that i'd be arrested, or the police will knock on police will arrive and knock on my and that seems my door. and that seems to be really institutionally and really what institutionally and at is at a governmental level, is being in europe, which is being pushed in europe, which is don't the big don't criticise the big questions society. know questions in society. we know better. say something better. and if you say something thatis better. and if you say something that is critical or problematic, the police will come calling at your the police will come calling at youokay, the police will come calling at you okay, well, the police will come calling at youokay, well, lorcan , this is >> okay, well, lorcan, this is all chilling stuff. is all very chilling stuff. is there people can there any way that people can find about your find more about your organisation? sure. organisation? yeah, sure. >> a website, adf uk. >> we have a website, adf uk. co.uk. so check it out there where we kind of keep people updated some the cases updated on some of the cases we're working at. but there is hope we can challenge these things. and you know, still things. and you know, we still have a lot of strong human rights principles to rely on, and we're going to continue to fight those. fight with those. >> lorcan price, thank you ever so andrew. and so much. thank you andrew. and there's lots more to come between now and 9:00, including when or if it is right to use preferred pronouns and news of

some cancelled comedians. we're going to also have some more questions from this fantastic studio audience. see you shortly i >> -- >>a >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello there and greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news weather. it's quite a cold night tonight. some frost and dense fog patches once more and then all eyes to the west as the next area of low pressure moves in. but it's going to take its time. western areas seeing outbreaks of rain through monday. northern and eastern areas weather areas holding on to dry weather until this evening. though until later this evening. though skies clearing and skies are clearing and temperatures are starting to fall away overnight. we'll see quite a widespread frost developing where winds are light, will see some mist and fog patches forming freezing fog patches as temperatures fall below freezing in the countryside. so there could be some tricky travelling

conditions. first thing, particularly across central southern of the uk. southern parts of the uk. further west, however, the winds start to increase . outbreaks of start to increase. outbreaks of rain start to push in and then this slowly moves north and eastwards through the day. on monday , some heavier bursts in monday, some heavier bursts in there possible , though parts of there possible, though parts of scotland, northern and eastern parts of england will stay dry for much of the day. plenty of sunny spells here and the winds coming in the south, coming in from the south, temperatures lifting a little higher than the weekend . highs higher than the weekend. highs around celsius in the best of around 12 celsius in the best of any brighter weather in the south, then into tuesday, weather systems start to clear away. we're left with a legacy of showers across some western areas, but there'll be plenty of sunny spells through the day. 1 or 2 of the showers could be on the heavy side the next few days. it will largely remains dry. there'll some bright or dry. there'll be some bright or sunny spells times. sunny spells at times. temperatures average . temperatures above average. >> warm feeling inside died >> that warm feeling inside died from boxt boilers . sponsors of from boxt boilers. sponsors of weather on .

gb news. away. >> and there's lots more to come between now and 9:00. we're going to be speaking to a pair of comedians who've had gigs cancelled, and we're going to get more questions from get some more questions from this studio audience. get some more questions from this let's studio audience. get some more questions from this let's get studio audience. get some more questions from this let's get the udio audience. get some more questions from this let's get the newsiudience. get some more questions from this let's get the news headlines but let's get the news headlines first from aaron armstrong . first from aaron armstrong. >> very good evening to you. i'm

aaron armstrong in the gb newsroom . tax cuts may be newsroom. tax cuts may be unlikely in this week's budget, with the chancellor promising a prudent spending plan . the prudent spending plan. the office for budget responsibility has predicted there's around £2 billion less to spend than previously thought. that's after britain was confirmed to have supped britain was confirmed to have slipped into recession at the end of last year. speaking to gb news , jeremy said news earlier, jeremy hunt said his will deliver better his budget will deliver better value taxpayers. it is wrong value for taxpayers. it is wrong to say that we should be putting more money into the public sector, fewer civil servants to be more productive, correct ? be more productive, correct? >> yes. you want fewer people to do more. >> i think we've got to stop always looking the inputs and always looking at the inputs and always looking at the inputs and always the to always saying that the way to get better services is to get better public services is to spend more and actually ask if we could be more efficient . we could be more efficient. aren't >> now, those who preach hate could be blocked from entering britain. uh, it understood that reports claim the government is planning to identify and add dangerous extremists to a visa warning list. they would be automatically refused entry to the . more that story

the uk. more on that story a little later . our rail fares the uk. more on that story a little later. our rail fares in england and wales have risen by almost 5. that's an increase above the rate of inflation on, and that's despite some of the highest numbers of train cancellations . uh, for a decade cancellations. uh, for a decade amid strikes, bad weather and faulty infrastructure, public transport campaigners say passengers are being punished by the increases , which could add the increases, which could add hundreds of pounds to annual travel costs for some commuters . travel costs for some commuters. now two women have been charged after pouring porridge and jam on a bust of queen victoria at a scottish art museum . saussure, scottish art museum. saussure, neymar , 18, scottish art museum. saussure, neymar ,18, and hannah taylor neymar,18, and hannah taylor also spray painted an expletive on the plinth at the kelvingrove gallery and museum. i'll come to that in a moment. this picture you're looking at regards the almost 5% rise in travel costs that have come into effect in the uk today . as i mentioned, an the uk today. as i mentioned, an increase above the rate of inflation. let's hear from some

commuters who could have hundreds of pounds added to their annual costs. >> i would be quite happy for the rail fares to go up if they invested the profits in the infrastructure, so that the rail network and the rolling carriage was consistently good, standard , was consistently good, standard, and that the trains ran on time . and that the trains ran on time. >> it's a bit much. that's just sort of like come out of the blue. that took me off key there. >> nothing's really changed on the trains. so it's not really fair to raise the prices. i think if there's a change and more trains are put on and stuff like that, maybe then, but not right now. let's get you up to date with those two women who've been charged for vandalising a bust of queen victoria at a scottish art museum . scottish art museum. >> sorcha ni varne and hannah taylor spray painted an expletive on the plinth as well. at the gallery in glasgow. the pair , from the campaign group pair, from the campaign group this is rigged. they reportedly glued to the bust . glued themselves to the bust. the group says it carried out the vandalism protest against

the vandalism to protest against increasing insecurity . increasing food insecurity. donald trump could take another step towards a november election rematch , with joe biden, later rematch, with joe biden, later voting is underway in washington dc, with voting is underway in washington dc, with mr trump hoping to continue his clean sweep of states in the race to become the republican party's presidential candidate . he's now won six candidate. he's now won six states after victories in missouri, michigan and idaho. last night , missouri, michigan and idaho. last night, he made a number of false claims at campaign events in including allegations that joe biden is smuggling people across the border, and he once again confused the current president with barack obama much more. in all of our stories is available on our gb news alerts . available on our gb news alerts. you can scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts. now back to free speech nation . speech nation. welcome back to free speech

nation. >> so let's get some more questions from this lovely studio audience. we've got a question from zach. hello zach. hi. >> um, does the phrase trans woman. in other words, males pass bbc impartiality guidelines? >> yeah . so i don't know if you >> yeah. so i don't know if you saw this this week. the today presenter justin webb , uh, saw this this week. the today presenterjustin webb , uh, had a presenterjustin webb, uh, had a complaint upheld against him by the bbc. uh, because he'd said trans women are males. and a listener complained and said that this was a breach of the impartiality rules. so let me get this straight on the bbc. you're not allowed to state biological facts. now, that's the deal, right? >> it sounds right. it's another fantastic example of the bbc being absolutely step with being absolutely in step with the opinions. the nation's opinions. >> yeah, but i mean, >> yeah, clearly. but i mean, what make? i that what do you make? i mean that the be able to say the bbc should be able to say that this is legitimate thing that this is a legitimate thing for him to say. and they're for him to say. and if they're saying is about saying this is about impartiality, sounds impartiality, well, this sounds like much taking a like they're very much taking a particular side in the culture war. exactly. that's exactly >> yes, exactly. that's exactly it. they can't say. they can say >> yes, exactly. that's exactly it. don't:an't say. they can say >> yes, exactly. that's exactly it. don't:an't :this.'hey can say >> yes, exactly. that's exactly it. don't:an't :this. they an say >> yes, exactly. that's exactly it. don't:an't :this. they canay we don't want this. they can have a policy, they, have a policy, couldn't they, that believe in this that we don't believe in this and won't have anybody our

and we won't have anybody in our staff but they can't staff saying it, but they can't say about impartiality. say it's about impartiality. >> i know you're a fan of >> no, i know you're a fan of the bbc, lewis. what do you want to say about this? well well, if someone that a trans someone had said that a trans woman woman. someone had said that a trans woryeah, woman. someone had said that a trans woryeah, rightyman. someone had said that a trans woryeah, right .1an. >> yeah, right. >> yeah, right. >> they would have been fine with that. >> that would be fine. so >> yes, that would be fine. so it so it's double it is so, so it's double standards, right ? standards, right? >> if allowed to say >> if you're allowed to say that, aren't allowed to that, why aren't you allowed to say woman is a man? say a trans woman is a man? >> it's a double standard. yeah. the is that the bbc is the fact is, is that the bbc is the propaganda network and the state propaganda network and has place in a democratic country. >> you're always so extreme, louis. i don't that . louis. i don't agree with that. yeah, i think because because you quality and someday you are bbc quality and someday you'll have your own show on the bbc. >> oh i see, totally respect. so i'm just protecting my own interests by being i have no chance of ever going on the bbc. so i can screw those people. as much as i want to. >> you might end up on the bbc, but for the reason that you but not for the reason that you think. i think in a news think. i think maybe in a news report with a blanket over your head a van. all head going into a van. all right, let's get question now right, let's get a question now from tim? hi, tim. hi. >> evening. uh, is it a

microaggression to give jobs to qualified people? >> yeah . >> yeah. >> yeah. >> um, yeah. this is a claim that's being made by some of britain's top universities that if you say that the most qualified person should get a job, that's a microaggression , job, that's a microaggression, then this is coming from the russell group of universities. >> absolutely. i mean, look, as a know, i don't want a woman, you know, i don't want the person the the right person getting the job. the i know, i'm job. i want the i know, i'm kidding. i know this really offends me. i hate dei, i think it undoes all the good work of people in the protected, looked after groups, but also how how doesit after groups, but also how how does it look after you if they're saying being good at the does it look after you if thejdoesn't ng being good at the does it look after you if thejdoesn't matterg good at the does it look after you if thejdoesn't matter anymore, the does it look after you if thejdoesn't matter anymore, what job doesn't matter anymore, what does matter then? >> ticking various other boxes. >> that's what you're left to think, isn't it? and that's why if you do get the job you if you do get the job and you happen the best person for happen to be the best person for the you happen to be in the job, and you happen to be in a now now you don't get a box, now you now you don't get the credit for it because everybody thinks you got there because ticked a box. you because you ticked a box. you see, i'm worried that the see, now i'm worried that the only i got this job is only reason i got this job is ticking a i didn't want to ticking a box. i didn't want to say andrew.

ticking a box. i didn't want to saywell,3w. ticking a box. i didn't want to saywell, you know, maybe you're >> well, you know, maybe you're ticking boxes. not. not ticking a few boxes. not. not the we would expect or the ones that we would expect or desire. um. desire. even um. >> yeah. this a it's a good >> yeah. this is a it's a good question. if a university wants basically they're really basically they're not really asking terme is just i asking this terme is just an i don't know to explain it. don't know how to explain it. you you're good with the you know, you're good with the words. about it's words. yeah, but it's about it's about who's on our side about seeing who's on our side and on our side. so and who isn't on our side. so it's a test. it's test. right. it's a test. it's a test. right. and they're saying is we and what they're saying is we want want people who want we don't want people who who think what that means. we want people who think the other thing. right yes. okay. and if it's a university, a private university , they should be university, they should be allowed to decide who they want to have. why are we involved in okay a university, it's not a private that's why. private university, that's why. >> mean mean, this is >> well, i mean i mean, this is the russell group universities. these universities that these are universities that anyone can apply to. right. and these are universities that any

they do whatever they want they can do whatever they want to you want of a to do. if you want of a university that supports that kind is all kind of ideology, which is all of lewis. yes, this the >> lewis. yes, this is the problem, isn't it's basically all them at the moment. and all of them at the moment. and so we have now set up new so we have to now set up new universities like they're doing in austin in in the university of austin in texas. yes. >> buckingham, got >> and buckingham, they've got their well what's it their new anti. well what's it called. in woke or called. studies in woke or something. eric kaufman's something. yeah eric kaufman's running plug running that. yeah. good plug chris. there's chris. yeah so there's greenshoots there. on chris. yeah so there's gre

beautiful. you you're a beautiful. you you're a beautiful woman . that's that's beautiful woman. that's that's all. that's all men want. >> okay, so lewis schaffer there, who now , lewis, you're there, who now, lewis, you're gonna have to tell us this story. you've effectively had a gig pulled . gig pulled. >> i've had lots of gigs pulled. yeah but i've. this is the first one that was so obviously pulled. >> and it was pulled because they said you were, what? homophobic and transphobic that little clip didn't give the lewis schaffer brilliant lewis schaffer is a brilliant stand comedian. lewis schaffer is a brilliant sta|ii comedian. lewis schaffer is a brilliant sta|i knowomedian. lewis schaffer is a brilliant sta|i know you dian. lewis schaffer is a brilliant sta|i know you might not know it >> i know you might not know it here, he's one of the best here, but he's one of the best stands. and what basically what i saying little skit i was saying in this little skit that do , which is that men are that i do, which is that men are not told we're beautiful, we're rarely told we're beautiful, and we just want to be told we're beautiful. and that some men are willing become , um, women in willing to become, um, women in order little love order to get a little love directed their way. that's how bad it is for men. >> i understand, lewis, that the clip doesn't do it justice. you have watch full set. but have to watch the full set. but the is, it was that clip the point is, it was that clip that these people cancel

that got these people to cancel your gig, is which is. your gig, which is which is. >> not going to mention who >> i'm not going to mention who it was. i'm not going mention it was. i'm not going to mention the i'm not going to the pub and i'm not going to because we doing benefit because we were doing a benefit for i'm not going to mention who we were doing a benefit for. i'm glad you're full the detail. glad you're full of the detail. yeah. because need yeah. no because i don't need to. they this to. but basically they saw this and said, lewis schaefer and they said, lewis schaefer based this doesn't in based on this doesn't fit in their pub, was my local their pub, which was my local and the one that go to and it's the one that i go to quite. we've we've done dozens and it's the one that i go to qu shows. ve we've done dozens and it's the one that i go to qu shows. okaye've done dozens of shows. okay >> but this is cressida. can i ask you about this? you're a stand up comedian, you know. you know idea that a venue, a know the idea that a venue, a promoter would see a clip that you've done online tweet you've done online or a tweet that and say that you've done and say actually your type of humour is offensive a offensive to us. isn't this a bit coming from. bit odd coming from. >> no, it's i mean, it's commonplace now, isn't it? i don't think it's right. i don't think appropriate. i mean, think it's appropriate. i mean, i'm not trying to lewis's i'm not trying to defend lewis's act, arguably act, obviously. he arguably appalling. but there should act, obviously. he arguably ap|space|. but there should act, obviously. he arguably ap|space for but there should act, obviously. he arguably ap|space for all but there should act, obviously. he arguably ap|space for all the there should act, obviously. he arguably ap|space for all the appallinngd be space for all the appalling acts. one of acts. you know, that's one of the things about the arts, the great things about the arts, isn't it. >> well, know, it's >> well, you know, it's interesting happened >> well, you know, it's intythis ing happened >> well, you know, it's intythis day, happened >> well, you know, it's intythis day, lewis, happened >> well, you know, it's intythis day, lewis, because ied on this day, lewis, because another comedian lost a gig on the very same day. and that's

scott capurro, often on scott capurro, who is often on gb as well. he had a show gb news as well. he had a show cancelled dublin and he's now cancelled in dublin and he's now being child killing being branded a child killing zionist. let's have look at zionist. let's have a look at what posted. just prior what he posted. just prior to the gig . the cancelled gig. >> so tonight i've been asked to not talk about, you know, palestine in the middle east because the irish are so on the side of palestine because it's a victim thing. but, you victim culture thing. but, you know, they're told that know, until they're told that hamas illegitimate and this hamas is illegitimate and this war they've created is war that they've created is going to be won by one side and one side only get used to it. i don't think they know. so see what the laughter lounge and see what's going to happen. >> and scott can join us down the line. good evening scott . the line. good evening scott. >> hello. >> hello. >> thanks for joining >> hello. >> thanks forjoining us. so you put out that clip . it was just a put out that clip. it was just a little joke what you were little joke about what you were going talking at the going to be talking about at the club. what happened . club. and then what happened. >> um, that image of me looks horrible. i look dead , uh, the, horrible. i look dead, uh, the, um , the, uh, the club owner um, the, uh, the club owner called. i was just doing a little social media. i'm

obviously bad at it. banter um, excited about the show that night and the friday night show the night before in dublin had gone very well. um, but i've been told to kind of lay off the palestinian material. i thought, well, that's like a bone to a dog. i can't resist it. and then i was just chatting on twitter and the club owner who's seen that video and one other criticised us, called me in the accommodation i was staying and fired had already fired me and had already replaced me before the conversation even happened . he conversation even happened. he he sounded like he wanted to crawl through and crawl through the phone and throttle me. he was so angry , throttle me. he was so angry, but he started to yell at me that i didn't understand irish politics. how similar was to what's on in palestine. what's going on in palestine. i said, as a jew, i have to tell you, that's quite offensive. and he know about he said, you know nothing about belfast. said, well, in belfast. i said, well, i'm in dublin. said, they're dublin. he said, they're the same . and well, you same. and i'm like, well, you might to learn. anyway, he might want to learn. anyway, he was of on a tangent and was kind of off on a tangent and disagreed what was disagreed with what i was talking a twitter feed. talking about in a twitter feed. so he me. i've known him so he canned me. i've known him for . i've been working at for years. i've been working at that a very long time. that club for a very long time. i really shocked, but lovely

i was really shocked, but lovely room i to the room and i want to say the quality of room. quality of the room. >> i've seen your act many times and sometimes you take the contrary position on stage. sometimes think the sometimes i don't think the audience knows what you audience really knows what you think audience really knows what you thin often like needle you often just like to needle them. would anyone and them. so why would anyone and people what they're getting people know what they're getting into when they go and see one of your shows? goodness sake. your shows? for goodness sake. so this promoter so why would this promoter suddenly that's that's the suddenly say that's that's the red that's thing that red line. that's the thing that we're to cancel we're going to have to cancel your booking hamas your booking for because hamas is and, um, is popular in ireland and, um, the irish have a great affinity for the palestinians . for the palestinians. >> think they understand >> they think they understand the but they don't. >> they think they understand the um, but they don't. >> they think they understand the um, theyyut they don't. >> they think they understand the um, they ,t they don't. >> they think they understand the um, they , theyy don't. >> they think they understand the um, they , they want't. >> they think they understand the um, they , they want to, and, um, they, they want to, i think, stick it to americans and the british. and the only way they know how, and that is to side with palestine in this issue. yeah but this is claiming what's going on in the middle east. understand about >> i don't understand about this. not talking about this. we're not talking about a political dispute. you weren't going give political going to give a political speech. were going tell speech. you were going to tell jokes. i don't get jokes. that's what i don't get about this. >> don't get >> that's what i don't get enhen >> that's what i don't get ehheni >> that's what i don't get either. i mean, i was going to do what i always do. and i said

to this guy, look, i'm always contrarian, you know, that i'm confrontational. this is how i am. telling you, it's am. but i'm telling you, it's such a huge issue ireland. such a huge issue in ireland. it's thing. the abuse it's such a thing. the abuse i've had online about this, i mean, people have mean, a lot of people have joined and said, we like your joined in and said, we like your act. a lot of the audience who was there enjoyed evening. was there enjoyed the evening. i did on the saturday at did two shows on the saturday at a i found other a different club. i found other shows were great too, but shows they were great too, but there is a huge, uh, amount of there is a huge, uh, amount of the irish population who just will hear of it. they have will not hear of it. they have decided what's going on in the middle east and they won't even hear jokes. they have no time hearjokes. they have no time for they're incredibly woke for it. they're incredibly woke about the subject they they about the subject and they they don't it all. don't want to discuss it at all. but it's conversation. but it's a conversation. >> just an irish thing, >> it's not just an irish thing, though, scott, as you know, um, our unleashed show last our comedy unleashed show last year edinburgh year in edinburgh with graham linehan cancelled by two linehan was cancelled by two venues. having to venues. he ended up having to perform outside perform on a platform outside the parliament. the scottish parliament. we've had pulled had jerry sadowitz show pulled roy chubby brown's show pulled. we had no one on this show. he had a show pulled. mary burke's had a show pulled. mary burke's had show pulled, andrew had a show pulled, uh, andrew lawrence, williams , i lawrence, alastair williams, i mean, list goes on and on

mean, the list goes on and on and are comedians who and on. there are comedians who are all their are having all their shows pulled because promoters are worried being worried about people being offended. thought comedy offended. well, i thought comedy was some times about was about some times about pushing boundaries. >> he was worried about what i might say. that's what scares me. i mean, i was likely to do the same set i'd done the night before, worked, but he before, which had worked, but he was what might was worried about what i might express, what might come out of my mouth. thing also, you my mouth. the thing is also, you know, know what i know, again, they know what i do. and they brought me over many hadn't asked do. and they brought me over marmy hadn't asked do. and they brought me over marmy politics hadn't asked do. and they brought me over marmy politics in hadn't asked do. and they brought me over marmy politics in any adn't asked do. and they brought me over marmy politics in any part asked do. and they brought me over marmy politics in any part of;ked me my politics in any part of the conversation. and you're right, people generally don't know. to sort mince know. i like to sort of mince about both sides. about and play both sides. that's joy of the comedy for that's the joy of the comedy for me. and that would have been the fun it that night, too. and fun of it that night, too. and again, audience and before fun of it that night, too. and againi audience and before fun of it that night, too. and againi spoke dience and before fun of it that night, too. and againi spoke toence and before fun of it that night, too. and againi spoke to you and before fun of it that night, too. and againi spoke to you afterwards'e that, i spoke to you afterwards seemed to enjoy themselves. it was his and his head, his mom. but club and he can do but it's his club and he can do what he you know, we'll what he wants. you know, we'll see if i get paid. who knows? >> a lot of the abuse >> i've seen a lot of the abuse you're getting, but you're a you're getting, but you're a you're winding them up even more by i'm very by responding, which i'm very much seem to be much enjoying. you seem to be enjoying nato connor asked

herself, kind of herself, who needs this kind of garbage? >> you know, i mean, poor oscar garbage? >> yolheiow, i mean, poor oscar garbage? >> yol he would nean, poor oscar garbage? >> yol he would have poor oscar garbage? >> yol he would have neveroscar garbage? >> yol he would have never had r wilde, he would have never had an they don't an actor. now they they don't want hear any of it, you know. >> well, scott, keep needling them. >> i'm sure you will. thanks so much for joining hi >> i'm sure you will. thanks so much forjoining hi can much forjoining me. hi can i come back to you, lewis? scott's a controversial comic, isn't he? well all comedy is controversial i >>i >> i mean, the problem with scott is he has lot of jokes scott is he has a lot of jokes and, uh, and he's and he's and he's funny. and sometimes those jokes are a little bit too true. we're very. here's my point. my point is we are in difficult times and they haven't. and there's no such thing as go to a comedy club and see comedy. it's not as simple as that anymore. now they know people are now they have to know people are afraid hear things and afraid to hear the things and let them be afraid. what's the problem is, is the rudeness of it all. like for scott to be the guy, to call him the day before and even to give scott and not even to give scott a chance to try to. but every single is it just you americans won't shut up. >> i mean, there's an element to that here. oh, is the two of you, isn't it? they've gone after you now. no, the thing

after you now. but no, the thing is that i think it's very odd. you scott and i have to say, you and scott and i have to say, are both brilliant comedians. and think that. so, you and i do think that. so, you know, say your bad, know, i normally say your bad, but brilliant. but you are brilliant. and i think you're you're both think you're both you're both known on the circuit as being just, you know, of the just, you know, veterans of the people much admired people who are very much admired within industry. you're within the industry. and you're not right? that's not safe anymore. right? that's what culture has created. >> i'm not safe. i don't think i was ever saved. i don't think any comedian is safe. and this is what we we go and do is what we got. we go and do these shows as go up on these shows as we go up on stage. people are not stage. the people are not automatically me. automatically going to like me. they're going to like scott. they're not going to like scott. they're not going to like scott. they're not going to like scott. they're not going to like anybody. but you know what's so sad occasionally sad is that occasionally somebody often somebody well, quite often people be people are going to be absolutely they absolutely thrilled because they don't the scott don't get to see the scott capurro the louis capurro thing and the louis schaefer thing on. >> well, on telly basically is where going this. yes where i'm going with this. yes and on telly, as you and you were on telly, as you mentioned may not mentioned earlier, you may not be bbc any time soon, be on the bbc any time soon, louis, and it's you know, it's horrible people don't louis, and it's you know, it's hor|ale people don't louis, and it's you know, it's hor|a chance people don't louis, and it's you know, it's hor|a chance to people don't louis, and it's you know, it's hor|a chance to see ople don't louis, and it's you know, it's hor|a chance to see these on't get a chance to see these really, outrageous comics, really, uh, outrageous comics, which, you know, that's the exciting live exciting thing about live comedy. exactly. supposed

exciting thing about live comedjyou exactly. supposed exciting thing about live comedjyou and (actly. supposed exciting thing about live comedjyou and you y. supposed exciting thing about live comedjyou and you don'typosed exciting thing about live comedjyou and you don't have! to test you and you don't have to test you and you don't have to after thing after to go after this thing after this cools down, people this thing cools down, people are to say, we want to see are going to say, we want to see this again. >> right we're in a super >> right now, we're in a super sensitive thing. the thing that bothers me about all this is that super that these people who are super sensitive totally rude by sensitive are totally rude by denying the audience the chance to mind. to make up their own mind. >> the audience is >> right. and the audience is such a good judge, because if you're a club and you say you're in a club and you say something inappropriate, stone dead really dead silence. that's a really powerful yeah, dead silence. that's a really pov1audience yeah, dead silence. that's a really pov1audience the yeah, dead silence. that's a really pov1audience the jury. yeah, dead silence. that's a really pov1audience the jury. right, the audience is the jury. right i mean, yeah, yeah. >> so isn't the solution if people don't to go and see people don't want to go and see scott want to go scott or they don't want to go and louis is not buy and see louis is not buy a ticket to see scott or louis, that sort of solves the problem. well, that does solve i would well, that does solve or i would say go. >> and, you know, yeah, i guess you're right. don't in you're right. don't go in the first place. >> than get show and >> rather than get the show and not it. not enjoy it. >> right. >> right. >> i mean, that's always possible. absolutely but, uh, anyway, people anyway, louis, when can people actually see perform? when actually see you perform? when you're up? you're doing stand up? >> rescheduling this >> well, we're rescheduling this thing, monday. thing, right? um monday. okay >> details. >> louis there with the details. as you're going to have as usual. you're going to have to it yourself. i'm sorry to google it yourself. i'm sorry about that. anyway, next on

about that. but anyway, next on free nation, the free speech nation, the documentary christ piracy has free speech nation, the do

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. a new documentary film gets its premiere in london this week, and christ, christ spiracy claims to uncover a 2000 year old cover up regarding how the teachings of the bible and other religious books have been doctored over the years to the benefit of the farming and

animal products industry . while animal products industry. while making acclaimed making the movie, acclaimed filmmaker kip anderson and cameron waters found themselves stalked for four months and then had their camera equipment and memory stolen. let's take memory cards stolen. let's take a quick look at a trailer for the film. >> is there any threat or danger making a film like this? >> yeah , you just wait and see. >> yeah, you just wait and see. >> yeah, you just wait and see. >> you're just wait and . see. >> you're just wait and. see. they will stop at nothing to keep this truth from getting out i >> -- >> is there a spiritual way to kill an animal? um, i'll put it this way . how kill an animal? um, i'll put it this way. how would jesus kill an animal? >> is there a peaceful way to kill an . animal? kill an. animal? >> i think we need to wrap things up. >> looks very intriguing,

doesn't it? i've got the co—director, cameron waters, with me now. welcome to the show .thank with me now. welcome to the show . thank you so much for having me so you've huge success me so you've had huge success with your previous films, which were netflix . you ran into were on netflix. you ran into a few problems when it came to conspiracy, you? conspiracy, didn't you? >> exactly when to >> yeah, exactly. when we got to the moment where we presented our first edit, there was a number of things that were a little the edgy side that little bit on the edgy side that it a conversation. hey, it creates a conversation. hey, some of these things might some of these things we might want back and kit, want to pull back and kit, my co—director, had a really co—director, and i had a really tough conversation and we decided had to go the decided that we had to go the renegade route essentially renegade route and essentially buy for the buy our rights back for the film. release the film on film. and release the film on our own. have a lot of our own. we have a lot of respect for netflix. still, it was an amicable thing, but we respect for netflix. still, it was athat|icable thing, but we respect for netflix. still, it was athat we ole thing, but we respect for netflix. still, it was athat we needed], but we respect for netflix. still, it was athat we needed], ltell/e respect for netflix. still, it was athat we needed], ltell the knew that we needed to tell the story way that it needed to story the way that it needed to be told. >> so effectively, people won't be this on be able to watch this on netflix, but they'll able netflix, but they'll be able to watch through other channels, watch it through other channels, other that gave you other ways. and that gave you the artistic freedom you the artistic freedom that you needed thing. needed for this thing. >> fact, what >> exactly. and in fact, what we're right now that we we're doing right now that we would have never able to do we're doing right now that we w

i've come the pond over i've come across the pond over here premiere the here to actually premiere the film on march 20th, one night only. it's going be in only. it's going to be in theatres the uk here. theatres in the uk here. >> exciting. now i don't >> very exciting. now i don't want reveal too much about want to reveal too much about the what can you tell us the film. what can you tell us about on here? about what's going on here? because an mystery that because it's an old mystery that you're attempting solve, right? >> f yeah. it's a 2000 year >> right. yeah. it's a 2000 year cover what i would cover up. and what i would say, you know, andrew, or you know, to you, andrew, or anyone who watches this program, free the of free speech nation, the name of it is that the speech of jesus christ himself has been suppressed and altered over the last key last 2000 years. one key statement on palm statement coming up on palm sunday as we're going into holy week, something week, there was something that was the temple. we all was said in the temple. we all know it the den of thieves. know it as the den of thieves. correct called the den correct jesus called it the den of there was something of thieves. there was something else that was said. can't give else that was said. i can't give away is on this program away what it is on this program here you have to go here right now. you have to go see theatre. but it's see it in the theatre. but it's much worse and it's much more condemning than what he actually said, well, said, because we think, well, because that because what you see in that trailer is various religious figures bulking a little bit at some questioning you some of the questioning and you did effort to go and did make an effort to go and speak to all sorts of religious figures, did,

figures, didn't you? we did, we did. we over to oxford did. so we came over to oxford here and talked to some of the top theologians. but beyond christianity, we talked to experts buddhism, christianity, we talked to expertsuh, buddhism, christianity, we talked to experts uh, across sm, christianity, we talked to expertsuh, across the islam. uh, we went across the board, in board, but especially in christianity through christianity, the through line of film, got oxford of the film, we've got oxford professors, biblical archaeology artists, biblical artists, professors of biblical hermeneutics that are confirming these and this is to these findings. and this is to do with the slaughter of animals these findings. and this is to do vthe the slaughter of animals these findings. and this is to do vthe treatment iter of animals these findings. and this is to do vthe treatment of' of animals these findings. and this is to do vthe treatment of animals.als and the treatment of animals. >> you us any more >> can you give us any more detail, or should we leave that for people to the film? for people to see the film? >> yeah. i mean, just >> well, yeah. i mean, just backing for story. i'm backing up for my story. i'm a born again christian. i was baptised, raised. a gospel baptised, raised. i was a gospel musician wrote gospel music baptised, raised. i was a gospel musony wrote gospel music baptised, raised. i was a gospel musony records. te gospel music baptised, raised. i was a gospel musony records. butospel music baptised, raised. i was a gospel musony records. but i;pel music baptised, raised. i was a gospel musony records. but i started sic for sony records. but i started to ask questions when i to ask these questions when i learned that 90 billion animals are single year. are killed every single year. farm animals on on the land. if you the fish, we're you include the fish, we're talking single talking trillions every single yean talking trillions every single year, 99% of that is factory farming. and we all know, i think and agree that factory farming conditions are some of the horrific around the most horrific around the world. it's essentially modern day these animals. day slavery for these animals. and as a child, i grew up, i have a bracelet that i wear. what would jesus do is popular in america, a question that we

ask ourselves, what jesus ask ourselves, what would jesus do comes to moral and do when it comes to moral and ethical dilemmas? for me, ethical dilemmas? and for me, this a huge it this felt like a huge one. it felt one of the biggest. felt like one of the biggest. and had find out what was. and i had to find out what was. the answer a better way the answer is there a better way that can do this as humanity? that we can do this as humanity? >> is there a sense in which there are some people who would rather these rather you didn't explore these issues, mentioned, rather you didn't explore these isswe, mentioned, rather you didn't explore these isswe know mentioned, rather you didn't explore these isswe know that mentioned, rather you didn't explore these isswe know that you mentioned, rather you didn't explore these isswe know that you were oned, rather you didn't explore these isswe know that you were stalked or we know that you were stalked dunng or we know that you were stalked during the process. you had equipment stolen. can tell equipment stolen. can you tell us more about that? us a bit more about that? >> actually, kip was in >> yes. so actually, kip was in san francisco at the time, my co—director. entire co—director. he had his entire place filed a place ransacked. he filed a police four days later. police report four days later. i had my van. i was living out of my at the time. that's for my van at the time. that's for the last seven years. to be able to make this film that i've dedicated my life and my blood, sweat tears to. i had to sweat and tears to. i had to live van to make it live out of a van to make it happen. my van was ransacked when we were out filming. we came and had footage came back and we had footage from israel we had filmed from israel that we had filmed and everything, was gone. and everything, and it was gone. it taken with the it was taken with with the camera well you've made other >> wow. well you've made other films cowspiracy and seaspiracy. there are. what that there are. what is it that attracts certain topics attracts you to certain topics to in kind of

to address in this kind of documentary format? >> right, right. well know, >> right, right. well you know, kip, he was the kip, my co—director, he was the one that cowspiracy one that made cowspiracy and what health. then i was what the health. and then i was a of seaspiracy because a part of seaspiracy because i was making but what was making this. but what attracted personally like was making this. but what asaid,ed personally like was making this. but what asaid, ii personally like was making this. but what asaid, i came)ersonally like was making this. but what asaid, i came from|ally like i said, i came from a judeo—christian background and i've god. my i've been devoted to god. my whole um, you know, whole life. and, um, you know, i see animals as god's creatures and when i learned and started to understand of to understand the kind of atrocities are happening in atrocities that are happening in these cities these slaughterhouse cities around different around the world, the different types lot of types of methods and a lot of suffering, um, it definitely was something heavy something that weighed heavy on my see in the my heart. and as you see in the trailer, it led to the moment trailer, it led up to the moment of actually meeting kip of me actually meeting kip because it was so hard for me to ask these questions to my own peers when i asked ask these questions to my own peers a when i asked ask these questions to my own peers a question, vhen i asked ask these questions to my own peers a question, isen i asked ask these questions to my own peers a question, is there sked ask these questions to my own peers a question, is there aed them a question, is there a spiritual or ethical way to kill an or let me be more an animal? or let me be more blunt, how would jesus kill an animal? they kind would animal? they kind of would tighten up. it's an uncomfortable conversation to have, wanted to have, but i really wanted to find way as a good, find the right way as a good, god christian. i wanted god fearing christian. i wanted to there way to to know, is there a right way to do so that led me up do this? and so that led me up to the moment meeting kip and to the moment of meeting kip and deciding to make this film together, to find there together, to find out if there is a way.

>> and some of clips look a >> and some of the clips look a little uncomfortable >> and some of the clips look a little of uncomfortable >> and some of the clips look a little of the omfortable >> and some of the clips look a little of the individuals some of the individuals that you're to. i mean, when you're talking to. i mean, when you're talking to. i mean, when you that of you approach that kind of interview, give the interview, do you give the interviewee do you interview, do you give the intethese�*e do you interview, do you give the intethese�*e the do you interview, do you give the intethese�*e the kind do you interview, do you give the intethese�*e the kind of)o you interview, do you give the intethese�*e the kind of things say these are the kind of things we're talk about, or we're going to talk about, or are get that kind are you trying to get that kind of reaction in the of legitimate reaction in the moment? right, right. >> some >> well, yeah, some of the interviews that end up uncomfortable, we uncomfortable, i mean, we go into learn into it really wanting to learn as always film is as we always say, this film is all questions. it's all about asking questions. it's not coming with not about coming with any answers. about trying not about coming with any an make about trying not about coming with any an make uncomfortable. to make anyone uncomfortable. it's our society it's just by nature. our society has wall around this has put a wall around this conversation. literally. the slaughterhouse doesn't you slaughterhouse doesn't have, you know, slaughterhouse doesn't have, you kn0\glass walls, everybody slaughterhouse doesn't have, you knoveatingralls, everybody slaughterhouse doesn't have, you kn0\yeating animals. ybody slaughterhouse doesn't have, you kn0\yeating animals. ybocit's stop eating animals. and it's true, something stop eating animals. and it's true, talks something stop eating animals. and it's true, talks about.|ething stop eating animals. and it's true, talks about. s0|ing stop eating animals. and it's true, talks about. so it's that no one talks about. so it's like big in like the big elephant in the room, so sense, when room, right? so in a sense, when certain people are pressed on certain people are pressed on certain questions becomes certain questions yet becomes uncomfortable, do you consider yourself just yourself a kind of activist just using your uh using this as your medium? uh i'm, i don't know. do you think i'm, i don't know. do you think i'm an activist? what are you. >> well, no, i wouldn't want to put words into your mouth, but, you know, it feels like you're trying message out trying to get a message out there. it feels like there. you know, it feels like you some of you want to affect some kind of change. yeah, well, no. >> back from >> to me again. coming back from my trying to my heritage, i'm trying to get the of christ there. the message of christ out there. it's not my message. it's

something talked something that's been talked about 2000 years. and you'll about for 2000 years. and you'll see everyone who see in the film, everyone who watches, this message watches, uh, this this message could transform could literally transform history . it's already been history. it's already been transformed the worse transformed for the worse because message has been because this message has been suppressed . so i'm that suppressed. so i'm hoping that the is released. the true message is released. >> i do love the way you're tantalisingly us with tantalisingly teasing us with with could but with what it could be, but the revelation definitely revelation should definitely be saved film. revelation should definitely be sav of film. revelation should definitely be sav of course. film. revelation should definitely be sav of course. absolutely. you >> of course. absolutely. you have where can have a website where people can find information. think find more information. i think you've out, you've got a new trailer out, have you've got a new trailer out, haerah, dropping >> yeah, we're dropping a new trailer actually, trailer tomorrow, actually, throughout all of our social media. yes , our website is media. but yes, our website is christ christ spirits, not christ christ spirits, not christ piracy. a lot of people get it wrong. yeah, christ seaspiracy.com. and you go to get tickets and right now in the uk tickets are selling fast. we've theatre sold out, we've got theatre sold out, basically sold out in oxford and milton keynes and theatres are selling out fast. and it's one night only. march 20th. >> so march 20th, march 20th here in the uk. >> yeah. it's also in for >> yeah. and it's also in for the people the pond the people in across the pond who chance . we who are watching by chance. we have the 20th and the 24th on sunday america, and the 24th sunday in america, and the 24th is sunday, which is the big

is palm sunday, which is the big day that jesus said, what he said that we're going to reveal and kind of reaction are and what kind of reaction are you anticipating? i hope a really good one. i mean, i'm sure there's going to be a lot of people that are challenged and cry heresy and all and want to cry heresy and all of these kind of things, but, you know, we're just you know, we just we're just asking questions. and so we hope to conversation . to just start a conversation. this really only scratches this film really only scratches the of this the surface of this conversation, be honest, conversation, to be honest, because a long because 90 minutes isn't a long time go through five time to go through five different and into different religions and dig into this , but a pretty this issue, but it does a pretty great job at scratching the surface, to hope keep the surface, and we to hope keep the conversation great. surface, and we to hope keep the conso sation great. surface, and we to hope keep the conso christ great. surface, and we to hope keep the conso christ rac great. surface, and we to hope keep the conso christ rac remind:. >> so christ rac remind us of the website again christ the website address again christ spiracy.com and you go click get tickets. fantastic. cameron waters, thanks so much for joining me. thank you. appreciate it. thank you . and appreciate it. thank you. and next on free speech nation. what is the correct way to use preferred pronouns or should you not use them at all? i'm going to be debating that with kara dansky and sarah phillimore. don't go anywhere

welcome back to free speech nation, a slightly contentious issue in the feminist world at the moment is preferred. pronouns when is it correct to use them ? should you use them at use them? should you use them at all? should you use them rarely, but allowing occasional but allowing for occasional exceptions and to discuss this, i'm joined by the family law barrister sarah phillimore and the author reckoning how the author of the reckoning how the author of the reckoning how the democrats the left the democrats and the left betrayed girls. kara betrayed women and girls. kara dansky. you both for dansky. thank you both for joining i want to come to joining me. i want to come to you first, because you you first, sarah, because you published recently in published an article recently in the magazine about the critic magazine about a trans identified judge, and you'd that you would use you'd said that you would use the preferred pronouns of that individual, you received individual, and you received a bit of flack for that. could you just talk to bit about just talk talk to us a bit about that article your reasoning ? that article and your reasoning? >> yeah , it was an article, >> yeah, it was an article, i thought, with a very important point about a judge who behaved in a way that was contrary to

the judicial oath. a judge who made public pronouncements which were discriminatory and frankly, a bit bonkers, saying gender identity was a biological characteristic . and more characteristic. and more importantly for me , a judge who importantly for me, a judge who contacted me personally via linkedin using a profile that led no doubt that they were a serving judge. so i wrote an article about that. i thought it was something that was very important, and i had people after written it saying, after i'd written it saying, well, i'm not going to read that because full of lies. because it's full of lies. you've pronouns. you've lied about the pronouns. what going to lie what else are you going to lie about ? then saying, about? and then someone saying, well, read it because well, i couldn't read it because it so confusing , even it was just so confusing, even though i had said in the first or second paragraph, this judge is man. is only one way is a man. there is only one way to be female. that's to be born female and live to 18. so i'm afraid i just don't accept that someone couldn't get through 900 words. um without getting totally confused and i used preferred pronouns because i wanted people to read the article. my audience, not women who know sex appeal . and it who know sex appeal. and it matters. my audience was all

those, particularly lawyers who've stayed out of the debate out of fear or apathy. who've stayed out of the debate out of fear or apathy . and i out of fear or apathy. and i felt if i went in guns blazing, saying, heeheeheehee , i reduced saying, heeheeheehee, i reduced the potential audience for that article. i wasn't lying , it just article. i wasn't lying, it just the reaction really disturbed me. well kara dansky, can i bnng me. well kara dansky, can i bring you in here? >> what's wrong with what sarah is saying? why? why wouldn't that sensible, strategic that be a sensible, strategic thing to do? if you want to get people read article? people to read the article? well, . well, yes. >> thanks for having me and sarah. i did it. i want you sarah. i did read it. i want you to , um, understand the to know, um, so i understand the point that air is making when she says she was very clear up front judge was male, front that the judge was male, and that there's only one way to be admitted . i get what she's be admitted. i get what she's saying um, think, though, saying. um, i think, though, that at least in states, the that at least in the states, the argument that we need to use so—called preferred pronouns to persuade people is misguided. and i think that because wd did some polling last fall that

showed that in the us , four out showed that in the us, four out of five voters across the political spectrum understand that the statement a woman is an aduu that the statement a woman is an adult human, female is true. so we don't need to persuade them of that fact. almost everybody knows that the emperor has no clothes and so from my view, what needs to happen now is we need to persuade people to say out loud that the emperor has no clothes and in my view, using opposite sex pronouns undermines that goal . that goal. >> kara, can i just ask you on that , though? what about the that, though? what about the situation where you have a close friend who is trans identified ? friend who is trans identified? you're talking private . this you're talking in private. this is someone you've known for a long time. it's you're not long time. it's not. you're not talking ideologue or talking to a gender ideologue or anything that. and it's anything like that. and it's just something that make just something that would make them , uh, more welcome. them feel, uh, more welcome. even in those circumstances. would you say it's wrong to use those pronouns ? those pronouns? >> so i am at the point that it's not even possible for me to use an empathetic pronoun. i couldn't do it if i tried. if i were in the presence. calls herself or himself, and at a

minimum, what i would do is i would, using the person's name when i referred to the person in the third person. but typically you know, when we're with people , we're not using third person, right ? we're interacting and right? we're interacting and we're using first and second person. so i don't think that situation will arise all that frequently. >> sarah, can i ask you about this? because some of the reaction that i've online reaction that i've seen online from a small handful of feminists are very, very feminists who are very, very angry about people , even in angry about people, even in exceptional circumstances, using preferred pronouns , is that preferred pronouns, is that they've resorted to lies , they've resorted to lies, defamation, just mudslinging insults. i don't think that's a persuasive tactic. i think a lot of us are open to persuasion, but maybe that isn't the way to go about it. would you say i'm right about that or wrong? >> of course you're right. this isn't a debate about pronouns. i don't care about pronouns. they're . they don't they're not magic. they don't confer sex on anybody. this is about , um, confer sex on anybody. this is about, um, the apparent inability , what i hope is just inability, what i hope is just quite a vicious and vocal

minority to accept any disagreement or deviation from their own way of thinking. if we're going to talk strategy, which i'm not, i'm not a general with an army. i'm an individual, and i will do always and only what i think is the right thing to do. if you are, however, wanting to talk in wider terms of strategy, you need to tell me what is your goal and the goal of a lot of these people appears to be to remove trans people entirely from public life, which i don't accept as a goal. but once you've clarified your goal, you tell me this strategy of you tell me if this strategy of insulting, defaming and threatening people who disagree with you is a good strategy , i with you is a good strategy, i think it's a very poor one. that certainly got me riled up . certainly got me riled up. >> yeah. so, kara, can i ask you about that specifically? i mean, i mentioned on this on a on a tweet very casually that in the past, when i've been speaking to friends or about close friends, i their preferred i have used their preferred pronouns . and called pronouns. and i got called a misogynist , a grifter, an evil, misogynist, a grifter, an evil, all kinds of things. and some

things i can't even mention on this program . um, is that really this program. um, is that really the way to go about things? i mean, shouldn't we, as sarah say, be making our own decisions about things ? about these things? >> so it's clear that i am not doing that right, like i am here to have a genuine, sincere conversation about strategy. and in terms of the goal. so, so my goal and the goal of women's declaration international globally and in the united states is to protect women and girls as a sex class. and so that's the goal that we are advancing. and in my view , if advancing. and in my view, if thatis advancing. and in my view, if that is the goal, then it is, uh, undermined by the use of opposite sex, uh, pronouns. but i'm not coming after either of you or calling you names or yelling at you . i don't agree yelling at you. i don't agree with that as a strategy . and i with that as a strategy. and i will also say with respect to your article, sarah, you know , your article, sarah, you know, it was very obvious to me that even though you and i have a difference of a difference of opinion on the use of opposite sex hormone a pronouns, i'm very

well aware that you wrote the article that you wrote having come to your own conclusion and i know that you know all of the issues. and so i don't want to i don't want to argue with you about your use of opposite sex pronouns in your article. i'm more interested in a general conversation about about the strategy, the most effective strategies for protecting women and girls as a sex class , which and girls as a sex class, which in my view, includes the eradication of gender identity ideology, which is to say nothing about individuals who claim to identify as the opposite sex or no sex at all, or some mysterious third sex that doesn't exist. so this is an interesting point. >> sarah is, i think, a lot of these debates are about to what extent the language that we extent does the language that we use influence what happens in real life? i get very agitated by reporters and journalists calling male criminals. she when they're clearly men. and i think that's effectively misleading the public, which is why i never do that. um, but do you think

that these decisions that are made about personal pronoun use have real world implications that are that go beyond each individual case? >> oh, of course they do . it >> oh, of course they do. it depends entirely on context . depends entirely on context. what the bbc did was scarlet blake was wrong. that was a lie that was deliberately obfuscate . that was deliberately obfuscate. and i completely understand people's anger about that. what they should have said was , this they should have said was, this person is a man who adopted a female identity. the name is. and then we'll use so and so pronouns. i the bbc dodged pronouns. i mean, the bbc dodged it effectively. it really effectively. talking about , um, just by about tiffany scott, um, just by using the name scott. so that's one way of doing it. i completely accept things like journalism, police recording of crimes. there can be no mucking about. you've got to use the right pronoun the right sex, right pronoun for the right sex, because people be because otherwise people can be misled . but i'm talking because otherwise people can be misled. but i'm talking about people me who were very people like me who were very clear i doing . people clear what i was doing. people who are to friends, who are talking to friends, people they love. the example i give, example , is if i have give, for example, is if i have a distressed client who a distressed teenage client who wants called a certain

wants to be called a certain name pronoun, i am not in name or pronoun, i am not in that moment going to start lecturing them about gender politics. i will do what i think is right for my client. now, i don't think kara and i have any quarrel at all. we want the same thing . the problem this thing. the problem is this pronoun , this ridiculous pronoun, this ridiculous distraction has opened up a range of fear for me that this inability to debate or to allow any disagreement is not something i naively thought was on one side only. and i've just seen so many ugly and ludicrous examples of people who effectively don't understand what freedom of speech is. yes, i think clarity and language is important. but you know what's more important is allowing people to use the language they choose. now that is the hill i'm going to die on. and if victory is only secured in the gender wars by compelling or crushing the freedom of speech of others, i don't want it. it's not my victory and you're on your own. i won't be supporting anyone who

goes down that road. i'm not saying, of course, that kara is, but i think for those who are very that pronouns are so very insist that pronouns are so important , they do need to have important, they do need to have an eye on what some people in their camp are doing because it's destructive and it's hugely destructive and actively dangerous , and i think actively dangerous, and i think most of them are just enjoying the, you know, the chance to have at someone, but it's have a pop at someone, but it's got to be confronted. you have to allow people that freedom, that personal choice . i use the that personal choice. i use the pronouns i think appropriate in the circumstances , but of course the circumstances, but of course i agree. journalists need to be clear, and the reporting on scarlett blake was not clear. many people did not know that scarlett blake was a man, because the way that was dealt with and finally kara just your final word on that final thought before we wrap up . before we wrap up. >> thanks. yeah, i just think that the extent that this is a political movement to protect girls a sex class and in my girls as a sex class and in my view, is i think it's time to move over to nato in the states. i do my best not to comment on things happening outside my own

country, at this point, it's country, but at this point, it's time to move the overton window and really encourage people who are waking up to this to are just waking up to this to let them that it's let them know that it's perfectly to call a a perfectly fine to call a man a man. we have had a lot of man. and we have had a lot of success in this. we have, for example, like example, persuaded people like wiley gaines, started out wiley gaines, who started out using opposite sex pronouns. we've her to stop we've persuaded her to stop doing that. we've had a lot of success in the federal legislature, and we've had tremendous success before the federal judiciary by always maintaining adherence to correct sex pronouns . and i just think sex pronouns. and i just think it's important as a policy matter. it's time. it's time to move the overton window. and i can do it. >> thank you very much, karen . >> thank you very much, karen. sarah, thanks so much for joining me tonight. really appreciate . thank you. >> and next on free speech nafion >> and next on free speech nation donald trump waves to some migrants, visitors to a willy wonka experience get less than they bargained for. >> and a man gets confronted by a stranger for ordering a happy meal. time for meal. it's almost time for social sensations . don't go social sensations. don't go

anywhere

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation and it's time for social sensations, which is when we look at what's been going viral this week on the dreaded social media. so the country was gnpped media. so the country was gripped wonka gate gripped this week by wonka gate as into as dreams turned into a nightmare glasgow willy nightmare at a glasgow willy wonka experience warehouse . wonka experience warehouse. >> page 45. the ticket for this smell expected castle and world. and i bet we have to pay for that fit over there . uh these that fit over there. uh these are like, um , the photo books . are like, um, the photo books. they are . what a waste of money. they are. what a waste of money. >> what is that , cressida? >> what is that, cressida? >> what is that, cressida? >> i thought it was a banksy installation . installation. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> dismal land again. >> dismal land again. >> it's not an avant garde art piece . piece. >> no, it's the children's entertainment option . oh, entertainment option. oh, apparently it's £35 a ticket. what? well i think they were let down by suppliers or down by some suppliers or something, i don't know. yeah. wow children wow disappointed children thought they were going to disneyland thought they were going to disneylardo think about that, lewis? >> it's like of

mm swows >> it's like one of my shows. yeah people feel yeah lots of people feel disappoint , yeah lots of people feel disappoint, haunted and cheated of money. of their money. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> less sugar than they thought. >> less sugar than they thought. >> yeah, yeah, absolutely. okay, well, let's have a look at well, and let's have a look at this fancy this one. if you ever fancy a happy you want to happy meal, you may want to think to this think twice. according to this lady, have links lady, it means you have links to epstein's . what do think epstein's island. what do think you're doing ? you're doing? >> excuse not your business. i mean, my lunch , that's a happy mean, my lunch, that's a happy meal . yeah, i'm not very happy meal. yeah, i'm not very happy now . thank meal. yeah, i'm not very happy now. thank you. what's your point ? why? sorry point? why? sorry >> why are you getting kids meal ? >> 7- >> it's the 7 >> it's the cheapest thing on the menu, but it's not really any of your business, is it? i'm trying to have my lunch. sorry >> children ? >> where are your children? okay. you read the papers onune? >> okay, but what? you can read onune >> okay, but what? you can read online is a weird island. >> is that something you tell your parents you're talking about? >> epstein. >> epstein. >> wow . louis >> wow. louis >> wow. louis >> i mean, does she have a point? well it is a bit. >> you know what? she does have a point. >> i knew you'd say that. >> i knew you'd say that. >> every single one of us have thought about buying a happy

meal for ourselves. want meal just for ourselves. we want a we a small little snack, but we don't because we're going don't do it because we're going to be thought we that. but to be thought we know that. but then woman like then again, to have a woman like that she's looking then again, to have a woman like th.it, she's looking then again, to have a woman like th.it, saying, she's looking then again, to have a woman like th.it, saying, she'would ng then again, to have a woman like th.itever saying, she'would ng then again, to have a woman like th.itever ordering, she'would ng then again, to have a woman like th.itever order something)uld ng then again, to have a woman like th.itever order something small? you ever order something small? i'm maintaining my 2 i'm maintaining my type 2 diabetes and i write cressida . diabetes and i write cressida. >> but video is a lot like what happensin >> but video is a lot like what happens in this studio if you bnngin happens in this studio if you bring in anything with carbohydrate in it . he carbohydrate in it. he interrogates you about what you're eating . yeah, exactly. you're eating. yeah, exactly. different very different topic, but very similar format. different topic, but very simyeah.ormat. is why you >> yeah. which is why you support her in this. that's why. because you are her. because you're. you are her. >> yeah, i have been >> i'm in. yeah, i have been her. and i might be her again if i watch my happy meal menus. >> i mean , i think there's >> i mean, i think there's anything wrong with ordering a happy meal, if i'm honest. >> mean, i haven't >> i mean, i haven't done it myself, you knock myself, but, you know, knock yourself okay? is the yourself out, okay? this is the part show where part of the show where we talk through unfiltered dilemmas through your unfiltered dilemmas and first dilemma came and our first dilemma came in this craig this week from craig. craig says, the says, how do i broach the subject with my subject of a threesome with my wife and her friend craig? why would you want to do ? i mean, would you want to do? i mean, look, i'm no relationship counsellor, but that doesn't sound like you're in a good place 9:00.

place there for 9:00. >> craig. yeah? how do you , uh. >> craig. yeah? how do you, uh. i've got no answer . >> craig. yeah? how do you, uh. i've got no answer. i >> craig. yeah? how do you, uh. i've got no answer . i feel i've got no answer. i feel i don't think i have lots of wine and then it'll go much more smoothly. >> yeah, well, what about. >> yeah, well, what about. >> just don't do it at all. how about that? >> i think that's the right answer. don't all. answer. don't do it at all. i remember got married for remember when i got married for the time, and i thought to the first time, and i thought to myself, wow, my, my wife, myself, wow, my, my future wife, wife. loves me. she wife. she like, loves me. she she'd anything . and then, you she'd do anything. and then, you know, later on you realise that's a really bad idea. >> i just think that no matter how much a woman loves you and a woman can love, they're the most unbelievably loving. >> but >> they. there's a line. but i won't that. won't do that. >> yeah, that's from the >> but yeah, that's from the meatloaf song. yeah. you learn a lot meatloaf. now, our next lot from meatloaf. now, our next dilemma robert. dilemma comes in from robert. robert i stop going dilemma comes in from robert. romy i stop going dilemma comes in from robert. romy local i stop going dilemma comes in from robert. romy local pub i stop going dilemma comes in from robert. romy local pub where op going dilemma comes in from robert. romy local pub where folk,»ing to my local pub where folk, including our mp, enjoyed challenging conversations, albeit in good humour? well, i don't see what's wrong with that. why is that a dilemma i don't understand? >> is he scared of giving his rigorous in public? rigorous opinions in public? >> i maybe that's what it is. i'm actually finding it hard to decipher that dilemma. look,

decipher that dilemma. but look, i don't control what people email with email in. what's wrong with going where an mp is going to a pub where an mp is having chat? going to a pub where an mp is hath, chat? going to a pub where an mp is hath, because people going to a pub where an mp is hav uh, because people maybe >> uh, because people maybe are recording to recording it. they're going to recording it. they're going to record and record the mp, maybe for and you'll be, you know, you can't say anything anymore. i know how you can. >> you can. >> you can. >> you can. >> you say whatever the hell you like, don't you? >> i do, and i get cancelled. yeah. >> well, you had your show cancelled. >> i wish you had more of a filter. i'm. you know, i'm siding councillors filter. i'm. you know, i'm sidin okay? councillors filter. i'm. you know, i'm sidinokay?i councillors filter. i'm. you know, i'm sidinokay? i thinkincillors filter. i'm. you know, i'm sidinokay? i thinkincillneed to this. okay? i think you need to be schaefer. be stopped. louis schaefer. anyway, ever so anyway, look, thank you ever so much for free much for joining us for free speech the week much for joining us for free speecthe the week much for joining us for free speecthe bbc the week much for joining us for free speecthe bbc said the week much for joining us for free speecthe bbc said you the week much for joining us for free speecthe bbc said you can'tweek when the bbc said you can't state biological facts. willy state biological facts. a willy wonka experience reduced children to tears, and the nafion children to tears, and the nation as after years nation celebrated as after years of trying his best, louis schaefer finally cancelled. schaefer finally got cancelled. but you to my panel. louis but thank you to my panel. louis and cressida wetton, and to and cressida wetton, and also to all of my brilliant guests this evening. and the way, if you evening. and by the way, if you want us live the want to join us live in the studio and be part of our audience, just go to sro audience, just go to sro audience . com don't go anywhere audience. com don't go anywhere because it's time for mark dolan tonight and join me again next week for free speech nation. farewell .

farewell. >> that warm feeling inside and from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello there! and greg dewhurst, and welcome to your latest gb news. weather. it's quite a cold night tonight. some frost and dense fog patches once more and then all eyes to the west as the next area of low pressure moves in. but it's going to take its time. western areas outbreaks of rain areas seeing outbreaks of rain through monday. northern and eastern to dry eastern areas holding on to dry weather later this weather until later this evening, skies are evening, though skies are clearing and temperatures are starting to fall away overnight , starting to fall away overnight, we'll see quite a widespread frost developing where winds are light will see some mist and fog patches forming freezing fog patches forming freezing fog patches temperatures fall patches as temperatures fall below freezing in the countryside , so there could be countryside, so there could be some tricky travelling conditions. first thing, particularly across central southern parts of the uk. further west , however, the winds further west, however, the winds start to increase . outbreaks of

start to increase. outbreaks of rain start to push in and then this slowly moves north and eastwards through the day. on monday , some heavier bursts in monday, some heavier bursts in there possible , though parts of there possible, though parts of scotland , northern and eastern scotland, northern and eastern parts of england will stay dry for much of day . plenty of for much of the day. plenty of sunny spells here and the winds coming in from the south, temperatures lifting little temperatures lifting a little higher weekend . highs higher than the weekend. highs around in the best of around 12 celsius in the best of any brighter weather in the south, then into tuesday, weather systems start to clear away. we're left with a legacy of showers across some western areas, but there'll be plenty of sunny spells through the day. 1 or 2 of the showers could be on the heavy side. the next few days. largely remains days. it will largely remains dry. some bright or dry. there'll be some bright or sunny times. sunny spells at times. temperatures average , temperatures above average, which looks like things are heating up . heating up. >> boxt boilers spot answers of weather on gb news as