parliament for the returned to parliament for the first time in almost two years after charges were dropped against him following a lengthy investigation by the met police. and stanley johnson will be to here tell us how he has been following in the footsteps of marco polo and giving us his thoughts on current state of thoughts on the current state of the since they booted out the tories since they booted out his son. are they in need of a bojo comeback? make yourself a cuppa and settle in for what promises to once again be the mother of political shows mother of all political shows. right, let's get straight stuck into the sunday morning papers with my fellow gb news presenter and former defence secretary michael portillo, who, don't forget, is going to be on straight my show. 11 straight after my show. 11 michael, to see this michael, lovely to see you this morning. coming morning. thank you for coming in. >> you have children. >> you have three children. happy sunday. happy mothering sunday. thank you so much. >> e much, now >> thank you very much, now let's started .

let's get kick started. extremism is a big theme of the sunday papers. we've got michael gove interviewed in the sunday telegraph. the quote for that story is it's not right. my jewish friends don't feel safe in london i think in central london on. i think the looking to the government is looking to redefine extremism is. and redefine what extremism is. and we've also had this extraordinary scene. michael, i know you had a look at the video of this iranian protester going to the pro—palestinian march yesterday. okay. he's carrying a poster that others aren't a poster that others aren't a poster hamas a terrorist. poster saying hamas a terrorist. and then he gets strong armed by the police. >> yes, course, the official >> yes, of course, the official position of britain that position of britain is that hamas a terrorist hamas is a terrorist organisation . yes. and organisation. yes. and the government that government would say that the attack israel on october the attack on israel on october the 7th was a terrorist attack. and so that much is clear. so apparently what this man's poster is, you know, the poster said is, you know, the official position of our country , of course the video is not complete. we don't know what happenedin complete. we don't know what happened in between . there's a happened in between. there's a moment where protesters are trying the banner off trying to take the banner off him. moment him. there's another moment where strong arm to the where he is strong arm to the ground policemen using a good ground by policemen using a good amount force. i don't know amount of force. i don't know whether right amount of

whether it's the right amount of force, certainly a lot of force, but certainly a lot of force. that's pretty force. so that's all pretty disturbing . back to the kind of disturbing. back to the kind of extremism this extremism debate. i mean, this bothers me because one of the reasons that michael gove is getting into this is that the previous definition of extremism getting into this is that the prev actuallyinition of extremism getting into this is that the prev actually been| of extremism has actually been counterproductive . so what is counterproductive. so what is happening is that a lot of the governments, agencies have reacted to the definition in ways that the government didn't predict. i mean, for example , predict. i mean, for example, the anti—terrorist program has spent a lot of time investigating, far right groups. yes, instead of islamist groups. so a minority of its time is spent investigating islamist groups . it spent investigating islamist groups. it lists spent investigating islamist groups . it lists people like groups. it lists people like jacob rees—mogg . it talks about jacob rees—mogg. it talks about brexit as though brexit were an extremist position. it was actually the majority position of the british people. what worries me is that gove, instead of trying to sort out government agencies which are behaving in these perverse ways , is seeking these perverse ways, is seeking to redefine terror, extremism . to redefine terror, extremism. yes. now, the next definition of

extremism will give us a new set of problems. and some of them might kerb free speech. so i think there's going to be a lot of debate about that. what he almost does in the interview is to define islamism . he doesn't to define islamism. he doesn't quite get there. now, i think that would be a very useful definition if we could define islamism. i mean, he says it's about promoting sharia law and about promoting sharia law and about promoting sharia law and about promoting an islamic state. he doesn't explicitly say in britain, although i assume that's what he means. but let us define things which are simpler than extremism . i have a feeling than extremism. i have a feeling that he will find again that if he redefines that word , it's he redefines that word, it's going to to more going to lead to more counterproductive activity . what counterproductive activity. what he needs to get hold of are the organs of state, which are behaving in a perverse way. >> was your instinct be at this stage? i know james cleverly, the home secretary, said , all the home secretary, said, all right, well, you've made your point these marches point to stop these marches from taking now i think taking place. now i think certainly how they

certainly to consider how they take place. >> so possibly to make them static, to review the rules around them, we have this quote from john mann who's coming on your programme later. he he leads for the government on the question anti—semitism. he is question of anti—semitism. he is clearly very disturbed about the role demonstrations . and role of the demonstrations. and we're talking about things. we're talking about the way these spread. for these things spread. so, for example , think mann today example, i think john mann today is about the way is talking about the way in which jewish children in which a jewish children in schools are being upon schools are being picked upon by other children , and, you know, other children, and, you know, being described as baby killers and all this sort of thing. and the fear then, that you have a sort of segregation where jewish children are going to feel they can mix with can only mix with jewish children and possibly, know, children and possibly, you know, that there can that muslim children there can only muslim children, only mix with muslim children, which society is which in our society is a desperate consideration. >> asking lord mann all about that a little later in the show, let's move on to the other theme of the papers this morning. i'm afraid familiar one. you afraid it's a familiar one. you may be getting a sense of deja vu, yet more talk vu, but there's yet more talk about back boris now. about bringing back boris now. the intriguing in the first intriguing stories in the sunday times that johnson

flew for secret with auto flew for secret talks with auto crate, maduro in venezuela . and crate, maduro in venezuela. and thatis crate, maduro in venezuela. and that is obviously very interesting because he seems to be freelancing on the side, although tell the foreign although he did tell the foreign secretary, cameron, secretary, david cameron, that he for these he was going there for these sort channel talks, sort of back channel talks, we've in the mail on we've got talk in the mail on sunday about a new plot to oust rishi, they boris to rishi, and they want boris to take wrote a piece about take over. i wrote a piece about the henley plot yesterday the the henley plot yesterday in the telegraph, has up telegraph, which has picked up a little traction, then little bit of traction, and then a in the mail on a leader column in the mail on sunday, perhaps is the sunday, which perhaps is the point. know you point. i don't know whether you agree premise . boris agree with this premise. boris can tories, but he can help save the tories, but he doesn't to be leader. doesn't have to be leader. michael boris help or hindrance ? michael boris help or hindrance? >> well, he's a great election winner. i just have to remind myself he was twice mayor of london, heaven's sake. as london, for heaven's sake. as well prime minister, well as becoming prime minister, he won the referendum as well. by he won the referendum as well. by he is an enormous by the way, he is an enormous election winner. so great election winner. so the great conundrum do you connect conundrum is how do you connect this election winner to a party conundrum is how do you connect thiwhichtion winner to a party conundrum is how do you connect thiwhich he'sninner to a party conundrum is how do you connect thiwhich he's no 1er to a party conundrum is how do you connect thiwhich he's no longer) party conundrum is how do you connect thiwhich he's no longer a)arty conundrum is how do you connect thiwhich he's no longer a part in which he's no longer a part of the parliamentary group, i think he could only campaign for the tories in the general

election with any conviction, any credibility. if he were a candidate at the election. so the point that you were making in your article about the candidate there stepping aside for boris, i think that is a very interesting one, whether, rishi is going to be magnanimous enough to allow boris to do campaigning, i think is a enough to allow boris to do campaigning , i think is a big campaigning, i think is a big question. but i mean, the tories have to be realistic . it looks have to be realistic. it looks very much as though they're going to big if boris going to lose big time. if boris comes in, it might mean that they less big time. >> and also that makes the prospect of whoever takes over from rishi sunak should the time come of maybe thinking it might be labour time than be one labour time rather than two, makes the two, and then that makes the prospect conservatism in the prospect of conservatism in the future appetising. if future a bit more appetising. if it's electoral oblivion, if it's total you know, like total wipe—out, you know, like tories left sort of completely dangling, facing an existential crisis. and i suppose that's a different set of situations to a footnote on boris one. >> he could still be a member of parliament if he contested the uxbndge

parliament if he contested the uxbridge by—election. two if you think he was a bad, disorganised prime ministerjust think he was a bad, disorganised prime minister just wait until you see him as leader of the opposition because you know, at least if you're prime minister, you're sustained by the machinery government in machinery of government in opposition. wheeling. >> indeed, let's also speak about the defence budget. i thought it was interesting that i had jeremy hunt in the studio where you're sitting last week, and sort of him about and i sort of asked him about whether going to increase whether he was going to increase defence kept defence spending, and he kept on talking the government defence spending, and he kept on talkin prudentthe government defence spending, and he kept on talkin prudent andjovernment defence spending, and he kept on talkin prudent and responsible. being prudent and responsible. we budget on we then get the budget on wednesday. money we then get the budget on we defence. money we then get the budget on we defence. got money we then get the budget on we defence. got tom money for defence. we've got tom tugendhat and anne—marie tugendhat now and anne—marie trevelyan, the former defence secretary, for that secretary, calling for that spending to go up. do you agree with ? with them? >> i don't think i do, particularly because i know how well i know how badly the ministry of defence spends the money ? i mean, you know, i money right? i mean, you know, i fear pouring a good money fear it's pouring a good money after the way, think fear it's pouring a good money afte same the way, think fear it's pouring a good money aftesame aboute way, think fear it's pouring a good money aftesame about the ay, think fear it's pouring a good money aftesame about the national; the same about the national health i'm health service. yes. i'm astonished the that the astonished that the that the chancellor more into chancellor pours more money into the health service at the national health service at some got to get some point. we've got to get away thinking more away from thinking that more money equals, you know, more, more better , better

more soldiers, better, better productivity or better services in the national health service . in the national health service. there's really almost no connection the of connection between the amount of money into something and money you put into something and what you get out the other end, because know , government because you know, government kind money kind of destroys money somehow. government loses money along the way. >> money, it wastes money. it procures badly. >> and so, you know, it is quite puzzling when you and i and i think everyone in government knows that this is the case, we still talk about give more money, give more money as though that were a virtuous thing. so i'm not at all sure that if i were chancellor, even if i cared i'm not at all sure that if i wlot chancellor, even if i cared i'm not at all sure that if i wlot aboutallor, even if i cared i'm not at all sure that if i wlot about the ', even if i cared i'm not at all sure that if i wlot about the defence i cared i'm not at all sure that if i wlot about the defence of:ared i'm not at all sure that if i wlot about the defence of thei a lot about the defence of the country, which i'm jeremy country, which i'm sure jeremy hunt sure that hunt does, i'm not sure that i would convinced that giving would be convinced that giving them money was the thing. would be convinced that giving the let's money was the thing. would be convinced that giving the let's have)ney was the thing. would be convinced that giving the let's have aey was the thing. would be convinced that giving the let's have a veryas the thing. would be convinced that giving the let's have a very quick thing. >> let's have a very quick look now to finalise the paper review. michael review. with what, michael o'leary, the ryanair boss, has been saying to the sunday times magazine talking about magazine he's talking about brexit. it i brexit. he's described it and i quote, shall try and temper quote, i shall try and temper this slightly. the dumbest effing in history delivered effing idea in history delivered by the dumbest politicians in history, boris johnson and nigel farage are lunatic halfwits. he goes on to say that the over 70s

who voted for brexit will, quote, die out in the next 10 to 15 years, which is a good thing. the younger people will change things, so people and things, so people watching and listening show , who listening to this show, who might who voted might be pensioners who voted for it's a good thing for brexit, it's a good thing that they die because then michael o'leary and his cronies can have more integration with the reaction , michael? the eu. your reaction, michael? >> well, it's a fantastic way to talk about some of your passengers. was ryanair passengers. i was a ryanair passengers. i was a ryanair passenger yesterday actually. i mean two to the point, brexit, it was not about the convenience of ryanair or even about air passengers . it was about the passengers. it was about the sovereignty of this country. it was making sure that the was about making sure that the decisions that affect our daily lives are taken by people that we can for vote we can vote for and vote against, and those decisions being made at the level of the european union that did not happen. i speak as someone who spends time in the spends much of my time in the continent of europe. i have two passports. them a passports. one of them is a european union passport. i know passports. one of them is a euro the] union passport. i know passports. one of them is a euro the diversity assport. i know passports. one of them is a euro the diversity of;port. i know passports. one of them is a euro the diversity of thet. i know that the diversity of the political cultures of europe means that we cannot be governed

in common. the ambition of the european union is that we should be governed in common, that be governed in common, and that comes expense, comes at an enormous expense, which lack of which is a lack of accountability. so that was why we european it we left the european union. it has nothing to do with ryanair and i. i'm afraid that the michael o'leary, although he absolutely knows how to run an airline, doesn't know very much about in politics indeed. >> so thank you very much, michael. you're now going to quickly scoot off to paddington so present your show so you can present your show from 11. from there. we look forward you then. forward to seeing you then. thank having me. thank you so much for having me. thank you so much for having me. thank much. the people thank you very much. the people panel katherine forster panel is back. katherine forster is reading catherine. i'm is in reading catherine. i'm intrigued, as to intrigued, particularly as to what the panel might have made of the budget announcement and what to ask my what they'd like me to ask my special morning . special guest this morning. >> yes. good morning, camilla, and welcome to the danata cafe here in reading. and welcome to the danata cafe here in reading . we've been here in reading. we've been talking about the budget. we've been talking about the nhs . of been talking about the nhs. of course, you know, the nhs is top of many of our priorities and the budget will affect all of

us. so let's meet our panel now. charles, i'm going to come to you first. you're retired now. but you worked in the city. and what are your questions for our politicians today? >> like ask the secretary >> i'd like to ask the secretary of for health, what's she of state for health, what's she going stopping the going to do about stopping the exodus english trained exodus of english trained doctors canada and doctors and nurses to canada and australia , where obviously the australia, where obviously the conditions are better? and for kwasi kwarteng , i admire the way kwasi kwarteng, i admire the way he thinks outside the box. is there deep state? was there there some deep state? was there some deep state, act to get rid of him and liz truss, does he think thank you. >> liz truss certainly seems to think so , john, you are a think so, john, you are a retired management consultant. you worked with the nhs. what's your question today? >> my question is about the nhs, and it goes like this. given the massive growth in uk population and the state of government finances, what is the conservative plan over the next parliamentary tum to solve the national crisis in adult and children's dental care? the collapse in the provision of gp

services and the nhs, rationing of surgery and urgent treatment through nhs waiting lists. what is the plan? what is the plan? >> and finally, nicola. nicola, you're a self—employed interviewer in the finance sector and can we have your question please very quickly. >> so for victoria atkins again i would like to ask why within a matter of weeks, the uk government will be signing over some of our health, sovereignty and autonomy to the world health organisation in terms signing organisation in terms of signing the pandemic treaty, why has there been no open debate about this, when 156,000 people have signed a petition calling for a debate in parliament, and if there are benefits , let's hear there are benefits, let's hear about them. they should be shouting them from the rooftops. you know what is there to hide? >> thank for that. and one >> thank you for that. and one comment, bit comment, just a little bit earlier the budget is earlier about the budget was is it sweets today and teeth it some sweets today and teeth out tomorrow . back to you now in out tomorrow. back to you now in the studio camilla. >> oh very good questions from the people panel in reading. thank you very much for that, particularly for victoria atkins

who to be on the show a who is going to be on the show a little now, miss little later. now, don't miss a muscles because as i say, i'm going to joined by the health going to be joined by the health secretary. also to secretary. i'm also going to be joined the former chancellor, secretary. i'm also going to be joined kwarteng, mer chancellor, secretary. i'm also going to be joined kwarteng, to er chancellor, secretary. i'm also going to be joined kwarteng, to er ch.outllor, secretary. i'm also going to be joined kwarteng, toer ch.out what kwasi kwarteng, to find out what he made his replacements.

welcome back to gb news. you're watching the camilla tominey show. lovely to have your company this sunday morning. i'm delighted be joined. now delighted to be joined. now by former the former chancellor of the exchequer for spelthorne, exchequer and mp for spelthorne, kwasi kwarteng. lovely to see you morning. kwasi kwarteng. lovely to see you you rning. kwasi kwarteng. lovely to see you you always. good to see >> see you always. good to see you. weren't in the budget >> why weren't you in the budget then. was watching, was then. why i was watching, i was watching my office. then. why i was watching, i was watright. my office. then. why i was watching, i was watright. and my office. then. why i was watching, i was watright. and the |y office. then. why i was watching, i was watright. and the reasonz. not >> right. and the reason i'm not in chamber that, you in the chamber is that, you know, don't want know, people i don't want to sort people to up my sort of people to pick up my reactions measures. reactions to certain measures. >> you liz >> so suggestion you and liz truss running scared? truss were running scared? >> no, i was scared of what >> no, no, i was scared of what i didn't understand that your own economic principles being sacrificed on the altar of a what i thought was a very labour light budget . well, it was very

light budget. well, it was very centrist and very careful budget . yeah, but i'm not sure for now. well, it's odd that having seen the budget, the polls don't seem to have moved at all. no. and i think there's going to have to be something different in the run up to an election, which is not going to take place in i think the idea that, in may. i think the idea that, you 28, 25 points you know, if we're 28, 25 points behind according some behind us, according to some polls, we're to press polls, that we're going to press the trigger a general the trigger on a general election. think that's election. do you think that's for i don't believe that. >> so what do think? there's >> so what do you think? there's going be another fiscal event going to be another fiscal event 7 going to be another fiscal event ? know the election. ? i don't know the election. >> i'm not sure. >> i'm not quite sure. it depends about timing. depends all about the timing. obviously, this obviously, if it's in may, this will last fiscal will be the last fiscal event and the election will have to be called weeks. i can't called in two weeks. i can't see that i mean, that happening. i mean, it's a fiscal fizzle out, isn't it? >> we're i mean, >> we're waiting. i mean, i don't >> we're waiting. i mean, i dont you >> we're waiting. i mean, i don't you me, don't know if you like me, were sort said, sort of watching. and he said, okay, to raise okay, so i'm now going to raise the vat registration threshold for businesses. i thought, for businesses. and i thought, my going to do my goodness, he's going to do something he's to something radical. he's going to raise grand. something radical. he's going to rais no grand. something radical. he's going to rais no , grand. something radical. he's going to rais no , 90 grand. something radical. he's going to rais no , 90 bygrand. something radical. he's going to rais no , 90 by fivei. something radical. he's going to rais no , 90 by five grand. >> no, 90 by five grand. >> no, 90 by five grand. >> oh, and then he >> that's right. oh, and then he goes, and we're all being doubly taxed because we're paying

income tax and national insurance. so and i thought, my god, to scrap god, he's going to scrap national oh no. national insurance. oh no. >> don't think going >> well i don't think he's going to measures. the to do bold measures. i mean, the way the inside, way i've been on the inside, a lot this will be driven by lot of this will be driven by officials, face it. and officials, let's face it. and the will the people the officials will be the people who'll regardless who'll be there with regardless of happens the general of what happens in the general election. well then that election. so. well then that bnngs election. so. well then that brings back, actually, one election. so. well then that brithe back, actually, one election. so. well then that brithe people's, actually, one election. so. well then that brithe people's panellists one of the people's panellists asking , i of the people's panellists asking, i mean, is the officialdom is the treasury just acting against anyone that's chancellor that wants to be doing something radical? >> the question was, do you think deep state acted think that the deep state acted to get rid of you? >> so i'm not a deep state conspiracy theory guy. mean, conspiracy theory guy. i mean, i'm historian. generally i'm a historian. so generally i believe not believe in cock up, not conspiracy . fair play, but conspiracy. fair play, but i think, you know, that doesn't mean weren't acting mean that people weren't acting against government against what the government was trying don't it trying to do. i don't think it was particularly coordinated. but resistance. there's but there is resistance. there's often to things that often resistance to things that the government is proposing. but that's the job of the ministers to bring people along with with them. mean, when i was them. i mean, when i was secretary state, i worked secretary of state, i worked very officials. yeah, very well with officials. yeah, because clear set of purposes. >> how about the role of the

office for budget responsibility in all this? because obviously that was set up to sort of that body was set up to sort of act as a check and balance to a budget that might go slightly off rails. to be fair, off the rails. to be fair, you didn't the obr, and that didn't consult the obr, and that might have why budget might have been why your budget went rails. sure. but went off the rails. sure. but are now, sort of having are the obr now, sort of having far much influence on the far too much influence on the contents of the budget? >> think they're very >> so i think they're very powerful organisation. and the reason they're more powerful reason why they're more powerful now is that we try to cut them out. liz truss and i tried to cut them out. >> why did you decide to do that? >> i think the feeling was that we on with we just wanted to get on with things. the prime things. i think the prime minister very keen to press minister was very keen to press her program, she that her program, and she knew that if she went through the obr, a lot things she wanted to lot of the things she wanted to achieve would have been prevented, essentially. >> there's an agreement that >> so there's an agreement that the abr has become all too powerful. powerful. i mean, >> it's very powerful. i mean, there's that too there's no question that too powerful. a it really powerful. it's a it really constrains us what what chancellors can do. >> saying too powerful? >> are you saying too powerful? >> are you saying too powerful? >> that think it's >> i'm saying that i think it's got much, force . and i got way too much, force. and i can understand why chancellors

and the civil service look to the obr. but the other thing about the obr is that its predictions are almost always wrong. and i was very clear when i said this to the prime minister the time minister at the time that they're 72 billion black hole that they they predicted, i said by the new year that would close because high and by the new year that would close becameant high and by the new year that would close beca meant fiscal high and by the new year that would close becameant fiscal drag1igh and by the new year that would close beca meant fiscal drag would|d that meant fiscal drag would mean that taxes were going to were go up as, as is were going to go up as, as is exactly what happened. i mean, the wasn't nearly as the black hole wasn't nearly as big on fiscal big as they suggested on fiscal drag , shouldn't he have unfrozen drag, shouldn't he have unfrozen the thresholds? because when we did of our calculations for did all of our calculations for the telegraph, you can put your earnings tool and find earnings into a tool and find out if you're more well off or better, off less well better, better off or less well off years off in five years time. everyone's well because everyone's less well off because of freezing of the tax. of the freezing of the tax. >> that's where the abs >> and that's where the abs numbers important, numbers are really important, because if he were to lift the thresholds according to the obrs arithmetic, he'd have to raise money in other areas to make the thing balance. and that's why it's very difficult with the obr to reduce taxes, because essentially they force you if you're going to reduce taxes,

they force you to either, you know, raise taxes elsewhere for or borrow the money, which creates its own problems on another level. >> isn't it a good idea for them to have shot labour's foxes when it came to say, the scrapping of non—dom? i was of the other measures? >> well, the problem with that, i mean, it sounds clever and it's triangulation, you know, the of thing we saw 20 the sort of thing we saw 20 years ago. but risk of that is years ago. but a risk of that is that if you're essentially taking you're taking labour policies, you're endorsing labour. yeah. and the electorate will say, well, you're doing labour policies anyway . why we why anyway. why don't we vote? why don't vote for labour. don't we just vote for labour. yeah. think they should don't we just vote for labour. yeah.been think they should don't we just vote for labour. yeah.been a think they should don't we just vote for labour. yeah.been a bitink they should don't we just vote for labour. yeah.been a bit moreey should don't we just vote for labour. yeah.been a bit more reform|ld don't we just vote for labour. yeah.been a bit more reform ish? have been a bit more reform ish? well think , and actually well look, i think, and actually if was here early, if michael was here early, michael used to michael portillo and he used to have a phrase which i remember from in day, clear blue from back in the day, clear blue water, want some distinction water, you want some distinction between what you're offering and what the opposition is offering. and essentially doing and if you're essentially doing a imitation of what they a pale imitation of what they want do , you're essentially want to do, you're essentially endorsing their platform, and people will ask themselves, well, why don't we just vote for labour?

>> well, talk about clear blue water and the water between starmer and the tories to that tories is the answer to that question to bring back boris. >> look, i think i've said here on show, yes, that boris is on this show, yes, that boris is arguably arguably. on this show, yes, that boris is athinkly arguably. on this show, yes, that boris is athink incontestably, arguably. on this show, yes, that boris is athink incontestably, thejuably. on this show, yes, that boris is athink incontestably, the besty. i think incontestably, the best campaigner in the party, has. he's won more elections than anyone else in the party, certainly more than the current prime minister. he'd a prime minister. and he'd be a great the party. but great force for the party. but that's a question for the party leaders. yeah, and for boris. i'm not sure that boris himself. well particularly i think last time you were here, you were sort of saying that rishi needed to give to swallow his pride and give bofis to swallow his pride and give boris there'd boris a call, because there'd been suggestion boris been the suggestion from boris people that he would accept a call not make call. call but not make a call. >> written yesterday the >> i've written yesterday in the telegraph, may telegraph, which you may or may not read. did read this not have read. i did read this this the henley plot this piece about the henley plot and he's installed and the idea that he's installed and the idea that he's installed a close friend, caroline newton, to does to be the parliamentary. does she know about the candidate? well, i think she might be aware of because comment on of it because she did comment on the boris the possibility of a boris comeback year. so he needs comeback last year. so he needs to elected, doesn't he? as an to be elected, doesn't he? as an mp ? yeah. mp? yeah. >> look, i think this. >> look, i think this. >> could lead the party

>> could he lead the party again? you think again? do you think so? >> i certainly think could >> so i certainly think he could lead again after the lead the party again after the election lead the party again after the ele�*yeah. >> yeah. >> 5 never him >> i would never rule him out. people that the people have done that all the time. they've generally had time. and they've generally had 999 time. and they've generally had egg but i think egg on their face, but i think that this election very that for this election it's very unlikely. firstly that he'll be a candidate and secondly, that i don't think he'll necessarily be that enthused about campaigning for he feels were the for people who he feels were the ones who got rid of him. >> do you see david cameron as a competitor? nobody's talking about they're about cameron. they're talking about cameron. they're talking about morden kemi badenoch. >> a couple of things >> and so a couple of things have for david cameron have to happen for david cameron to back. has to get back. he has to essentially renounce his peerage, which he might do, and then get back the commons . then get back into the commons. and you'll to find a seat. and you'll have to find a seat. but know, if we look at but you know, the if we look at the last eight years, nothing is impossible. sorts of impossible. i mean, all sorts of things happened. impossible. i mean, all sorts of thirso happened. impossible. i mean, all sorts of thirso we happened. impossible. i mean, all sorts of thirso we could pened. impossible. i mean, all sorts of thirso we could be ed. impossible. i mean, all sorts of thirso we could be facing some >> so we could be facing some kind cameron. well kind of boris cameron. well redux. will be like redux. imagine that will be like deja i'm not sure deja vu. honestly i'm not sure how likely that is, but but but anything is possible. you had a reaction to the tugendhat and trevelyan intervention on defence spending. they've said to chancellor that they

to the chancellor that they think that the chancellor should have earmarked money. have earmarked more money. >> think of it? >> what do you think of it? i think very bizarre about that. >> i everything >> i mean, i'm with everything michael said i agree michael portillo said i agree with. to get away from michael portillo said i agree withidea to get away from michael portillo said i agree withidea that to get away from michael portillo said i agree withidea that weo get away from michael portillo said i agree withidea that we just, away from michael portillo said i agree withidea that we just, youy from this idea that we just, you know, by spending money, everything's going to be solved. we've look how we've got to look at how the money spent. think that's money is spent. i think that's really i was really important. i was surprised to see ministers serving ministers serving government ministers bound by collective responsibility , essentially responsibility, essentially freelance, and write their own article . article. >> i mean, there's nothing new there. i mean, well, no, that's pretty bold. >> i mean, you'd have to go back a long way to see something as blatant being disloyal to blatant as being disloyal to rishi you know, blatant as being disloyal to rish never you know, blatant as being disloyal to rish never heard you know, blatant as being disloyal to rish never heard of (ou know, blatant as being disloyal to rish never heard of au know, blatant as being disloyal to rish never heard of a situation i've never heard of a situation where, backbenchers. where, i mean a backbenchers. that's are that's fine. backbenchers are not part of the government, but actual saying actual serving ministers saying no, but maybe they're taking the chances they're that worried about threat from china, about the threat from china, russia and beyond. >> enough. but >> that's fair enough. but generally old days we generally in the old days we would would voice those would you would voice those concerns doors. concerns behind closed doors. >> you'd speak to the chancellor, but maybe they'd spoken to the chancellor and then nowhere. the that then nowhere. but the idea that you the newspaper you just write in the newspaper or media, think is a or social media, i think is a new should we talk

new development should we talk about michael o'leary's intervention? >> the ryanair boss talking about brexit, saying it was the dumbest idea in history , dumbest effing idea in history, delivered by the dumbest politicians delivered by the dumbest poli'johnson , and basically and johnson, and basically saying we need to wait for the over 70s to die which is, over 70s to die out, which is, quote, a thing because quote, a good thing because younger will change younger people will change things . things. >> i that pretty >> i find that pretty extraordinary. as extraordinary. i mean, as michael portillo, michael said michael portillo, i mean, of his clients, his mean, a lot of his clients, his customers are older people. >> yeah, it's a two fingered salute. >> he doesn't understand what he's a businessman. >> doesn't really understand >> he doesn't really understand about democracy or care about sovereignty issues sovereignty or any of the issues really , in brexit. i mean, really, in brexit. i mean, i understand where he's coming from from a very narrow perspective. but actually, as michael said, it's not michael portillo said, it's not just about his his company brexit. it's a much wider question about sovereignty , question about sovereignty, about legal settlement economically. >> you voted to leave , lots of >> you voted to leave, lots of debate over whether brexit has been economically calamitous, whether covid's been more calamitous. i mean , what's your calamitous. i mean, what's your take on it? >> so look, the thing i don't understand is the fact that germany and france are

essentially recession . essentially in recession. >> their economies are doing they're not doing better than ours. doing worse. if ours. they're doing worse. if anything, particularly germany. so these so the idea that and these are the biggest economies far the two biggest economies by far in the eu. the idea that if in the eu. so the idea that if we'd , we'd somehow be we'd stayed, we'd somehow be doing much better seems bizarre to me, given that the two biggest economies in the eu are doing worse than we are at the moment. i've never really understood that argument. i think of think there's a lot of sentiment, a emotion, and sentiment, a lot of emotion, and i understand that. but but practically, when you look at the economy, it the german economy, where it is now and look the french now and you look at the french economy look at the economy and you look at the eurozone whole, it's as eurozone as a whole, it's not as if they're growing 5. and we if they're growing at 5. and we are are. yes they're are where we are. yes they're basically doing the same or worse. i don't understand worse. no. so i don't understand how staying in it would have improved performance . improved our performance. >> kwasi kwarteng, thank you very much indeed forjoining me this analysis of this morning. great analysis of the budget on wednesday. now lots to in next lots more to come in the next houn lots more to come in the next hour. to speaking hour. i'm going to be speaking to secretary state for to the secretary of state for health care, victoria health and social care, victoria atkins. government atkins. can the government really waiting really get the nhs waiting list down? anywhere

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. still lots more to come in. just a minute. i'm going to be joined by the secretary of for state health and social care, victoria atkins. has once again atkins. the nhs has once again received a cash injection atkins. the nhs has once again recetreasury. sh injection atkins. the nhs has once again recetreasury. but1jection atkins. the nhs has once again recetreasury. but can:ion atkins. the nhs has once again recetreasury. but can itn atkins. the nhs has once again recetreasury. but can it be the treasury. but can it be reformed to be more value for money? in an exclusive first interview since his return to parliament after a four year investigation against him was dropped police, i'm dropped by the met police, i'm going to be joined by the conservative for romford, conservative mp for romford, andrew . he's had andrew rosindell. he's had quite an stay for an ordeal so stay tuned for that. lord john man, the government's independent adviser on antisemitism, will be reacting to the idea that london has a no go zone forjews has become a no go zone forjews because of the pro—palestinian marches and stanley johnson will be here to talk about his latest adventure following in the footsteps marco polo. and of footsteps of marco polo. and of course, asking him

course, i will be asking him what he makes of a recent documentary at the rise documentary looking at the rise and fall of boris johnson. but first, let's now welcome into the studio, andrew rosindell. he's quite an he's been through quite an ordeal because he's been the subject of a four year police investigation into allegations against he's just returned against him. he's just returned to parliament, and those claims and those allegations have been dropped. so he's now resuming his role fully throated for the conservative mp for romford. lovely to see you this morning andrew. look i know you haven't really spoken about this to anyone. so i'm grateful for your candour morning. the candour this morning. the complaint was first received in 2020, you were then arrested in may 2022 on suspicion of indecent assault, sexual assault, rape, abuse of position of trust and misconduct in pubuc of trust and misconduct in public office. you then were the subject of this investigation , subject of this investigation, which is only now been dropped in 2024. so this dark cloud hanging over you for four years, only to end up having no action taken against you whatsoever? i

know only under arrest, never actually charged. what's that been like ? been like? >> first of all, can i say i'm pleased to be back on gb news and i'm pleased to be back doing my role fully as a member of parliament. i was elected to do a job. my concern is that anybody in public life can now be accused of something and be simply knocked out, removed from doing the job that they were elected to do. any mp could now be a target, and i think that something has to change because we have an election coming up . we have an election coming up. but apart from that, constitutionally, how is it right that an elected member of parliament cannot be in parliament cannot be in parliament to do their job in full? so it's not a nice thing to go through, but i am determined to ensure that in future other mps are not subjected to the same thing that i've had to go through. mps need protection. we need protection in so many ways. you know we're

abused online. the vile things that on social media, that are said on social media, we are also under threat of violence. yes, i've lost two very close friends through violence who are members of parliament. one was murdered by terrorism and another was murdered at his surgery. sir david amess by a fanatic with so many risks now for members of parliament. and i say to you, camilla, i say to the british people, do you want mps to be able to do a job to and represent the people in a democratic way, if we're going to live in fear false to live in fear of false allegations potential allegations of potential violence and perpetual abuse on social media, it's not really a good advert for encouraging people to stand for parliament. so something has to change, for legal and other reasons, we're not going to go into the details of this entire ordeal that you've suffered for four years, suffice to say that you of suffice to say that you do, of course , support the idea of mps course, support the idea of mps being investigated. if complaints are made against

them, and that's only right, isn't it ? we know that some mps isn't it? we know that some mps have been found guilty of wrongdoing, it's absolutely wrongdoing, and it's absolutely correct they should correct that they should face the of the law. at the the long arm of the law. at the same time, i think you're concerned about the manner in which mps are investigated. if complaints made, it's often complaints are made, it's often are they said you said type situation and as you say, you're then completely removed from the parliamentary scene . you don't parliamentary scene. you don't really know what's going on with the investigation . a degree of the investigation. a degree of opaqueness in the process is also problem right? also a problem right? >> absolutely. i think >> yes, absolutely. and i think the thing, lots of bad the worst thing, lots of bad things about all of this. but the worst thing, i think , is the worst thing, i think, is that if you're representing a constituency people have constituency and people have voted for you because they have confidence in you vote on confidence in you to vote on their if you're suddenly their behalf, if you're suddenly not there doing that job, constituents are rightly concerned that the person they have confidence in are elected to do a job. is not they doing it? and so how can it be right that any mp should not be able to vote on legislation, speak on matters that important matters that are important to their constituents ? yes, because

their constituents? yes, because you just need one person. you just need one person to make an accusation a malicious way, accusation in a malicious way, and that will knock an mp out. it be right that has to be it can't be right that has to be a change to the system. >> the if system's >> what's the if the system's changed, are going to changed, what are you going to be anonymity for be calling for? anonymity for those who are accused of wrongdoing? >> camilla i believe that everyone in this country should be unfil everyone in this country should be until proven guilty. be innocent until proven guilty. that is, that's the foundation of our laws and our justice system. and i'm worried that now the process becomes the punishment, that a process can go on and on and on for years, potentially at great expense to the person who's being accused, because they have to obviously engage lawyers and legal advice and all the rest of it. >> i mean, has it cost you a lot financially? >> you as you can imagine, i don't want to make this about me. i want to make this about ensuring that we have a fair system forward and that no system going forward and that no member public member of parliament, no public figure , has to go through the figure, has to go through the same kind of process again , same kind of process again, there needs to be a way of doing

this, which of course, you're right . if someone committed right. if someone has committed a whether they're an mp a crime, whether they're an mp or an ordinary member of the public, whoever they are, that has investigated. but has to be investigated. but there has to a way of doing there has to be a way of doing it, takes into account, it, which takes into account, particularly you're an particularly if you're an elected . just elected parliamentarian. just imagine before an election, if a number potential candidates number of potential candidates or mps are accused just before an election, and that knocks them out of being able to stand, well, that also raises the sort of suggestion that perhaps mps are being targeted just before i move on to that question about the sort of personal cost for you financially, has this cost you financially, has this cost you a lot of money? >> you've obviously had to take lawyer or take action, lawyer or take legal action, consult course consult lawyers over the course of have cost of four years, must have cost a fortune , inevitably, you know fortune, inevitably, you know how much lawyers cost . but, how much lawyers cost. but, look, it has to be done, and you have to bear that cost out. at the end of the day, what matters is that you get people to represent you. when you're in that of situation. that kind of situation. >> into savings . >> you have to eat into savings. have you to remortgage houses?

>> that's a matter for to >> that's a matter for me to resolve . but yes, you, of resolve. but yes, you, of course, you're significantly resolve. but yes, you, of co pocketiu're significantly resolve. but yes, you, of co pocket because |ificantly resolve. but yes, you, of co pocket because|ifi> but are you saying that you think mps are more uniquely at threat from malicious, malicious allegations ? i mean, i suppose allegations? i mean, i suppose they could be fuelled by, political ideology. it could be fuelled by the idea that actually mps don't naturally garner much sympathy with the public. you know, politicians, their reputations are up there

with estate agents and indeed journalists. right. so therefore, if you're accused, therefore, if you're accused, the impetus very much is sort of to say, oh, well, he must be wrong. and, you know, and you then have to disappear. >> i say to people watching this brilliant program. and by the way, throughout that period, i was watching you every sunday. >> you very much. was watching you every sunday. >> thank you very much. was watching you every sunday. >> thank you fory much. was watching you every sunday. >> thank you for helping keeping me but me going during that period. but the the public the reality is that the public need to just pause when they hear an accusation or hear of an accusation or allegation, when they hear something bad about a member of parliament, they should pause, check the facts , just see if check the facts, just see if there's any validity to it. i look at social media, not just people write about myself, but other mps . the vile, horrible, other mps. the vile, horrible, wicked things that are said. i mean most people. how can they cope when you're being abused in that way? we have to have a thick, thick skin. i've developed a thick skin over the years, we all do. the years, but we all do. but the pubuc years, but we all do. but the public should realise is that we're all human beings and that to say nasty things and to make

up stories or to exaggerate some small rumour which turns out to be untrue, the hurt that causes us and other people, i think, wouldn't be able to cope with it. i got through it because it. and i got through it because i knew day one that that, i knew from day one that that, you , it was all and you know, it was all unfair and malicious. but other people, i think, would have a great difficulty getting through it. so the public should be careful about what they say. i mean, you say you've developed thick skin. >> tell us about the personal cost this, because you >> tell us about the personal cost have this, because you >> tell us about the personal cost have had because you >> tell us about the personal cost have had pretty se you >> tell us about the personal cost have had pretty lowou >> tell us about the personal cost have had pretty low moments must have had pretty low moments dunng must have had pretty low moments during of the last during the course of the last four years. >> i've wonderful friends >> i've got wonderful friends and and people that were and family and people that were there for me. my constituents were wonderful all the way through, i. i carried on working throughout. carried on doing throughout. i carried on doing all my work in the constituency and available people and being available for people attending events, that kept attending events, and that kept me , because i knew me going really, because i knew that at the end of the day , you that at the end of the day, you know, things do happen in life, which are not good, and you just have to fight back and, and carry on. i believe very much in the, the keep calm and carry on

philosophy . and that's what i philosophy. and that's what i did throughout. but it just took too long. >> must have taken its toll. i mean, how were during this mean, how were you during this penod mean, how were you during this period , well, i was actually period, well, i was actually more concerned about people more concerned about the people around . i think my staff had around me. i think my staff had to cope, know, they were to cope, you know, they were incredibly loyal. they they stayed with supported stayed with me and supported me throughout . but stayed with me and supported me throughout. but i couldn't go and see them. i couldn't go to the office to do daily work. so they had to come and meet me in coffee shops things of that coffee shops and things of that kind come to my kind or come to romford, my constituency , and yes, people constituency, and yes, people around me were distraught and upset because it affected their lives as well. it affected all my staff . it affected all my former staff. it affected all the people that worked with in the people that i worked with in a broad spectrum of areas. as an mp, i'm involved in so many different things, but pretty much everyone stuck by me and said, look, we don't believe this and we know you and we support you and we want you back . and that kept me going. at no point did i feel so low that i was about to throw in the towel.

i just wanted to get it over. but it shouldn't have taken the long as long as it did for it to take four years, right? so this isn't quite right. i don't it wasn't four years, it was 21 months. okay, from arrest to exoneration. i don't know what happened before that, but certainly from that 21 month period. >> yeah, that's long enough. >> yeah, that's long enough. >> it's long enough. but i kept busy. you know, i did all my i did all my emails. they do all my constituency work. went to my constituency work. i went to events, on as normal. events, i carried on as normal. but forward day but looking forward to the day when this would be over. >> you that there >> but did you feel that there was feet dragging going on? was some feet dragging going on? i is extraordinary i mean, that is an extraordinary penod i mean, that is an extraordinary period out that period of time to find out that allegations malicious. allegations are malicious. >> like to >> i don't know, i'd like to thank the metropolitan police for everything they did. i know that would have done that they would have done everything to expedite everything possible to expedite the inquiry. i had no doubt from word go that it was going to be fair and that they were going to do it properly, and they did. i thank them for that. but from from their point of view as well, not only the point of well, not only from the point of

view accused person. view of an accused person. there's a quicker way there's got to be a quicker way of with yes, 21 of dealing with this. yes, 21 months is too long. >> the pendulum might >> maybe the pendulum might have swung of swung too far in favour of believing complainant. i can believing the complainant. i can understand why the authorities andindeed understand why the authorities and indeed the mayor and police forces have to take complaints seriously. of course they do, because if people are claiming to be the victims of wrongdoing andindeed to be the victims of wrongdoing and indeed of actual crimes, it must thoroughly investigated . must be thoroughly investigated. but perhaps since the so—called pestminster scandal, there , the pestminster scandal, there, the pendulum has swung too far in the favour of complainants against the mps who are accused . against the mps who are accused. >> i think that there has to be some serious evidence before a very long inquiry started, and i think that's where they need to be. they need to make sure not not just mps, but in all cases , not just mps, but in all cases, look, the police are stretched. there's so many things going on they deal with. they need to deal with. what they need to deal with. what they to they don't need is to go on a wild goose chase with lots of inquiries because of malicious, particularly politically motivated accusations. so there has better process in has to be a better process in terms of the way the police handle it from day one to ensure

that they're not spending time on dealing with things that are vexatious. rather than actually deaung vexatious. rather than actually dealing with real crime that's going on in our country today. you say you were lucky enough to have of the good have the support of the good people indeed people of romford and indeed parliamentary people of romford and indeed parliiwondered, has prime >> i wondered, has the prime minister touch with minister got back in touch with you returned you since you've returned to parliament? you since you've returned to parliame|i've in touch with >> well, i've got in touch with him. two questions at him. i've had two questions at pmqs, got in pmqs, but he hasn't got in contact with you. >> to him >> i haven't spoken to him personally. spoken to personally. i haven't spoken to disappointing from rishi sunak. >> hear from him. >> i'd be nice to hear from him. he text me if wishes. but he can text me if he wishes. but look, i put two questions to him in chamber and answered. in the chamber and he answered. and come and he's promised to come to romford. him promise that romford. i made him promise that in chamber , and he said, in the chamber, and he said, he's to it. let's he's going to do it. so let's hold him that. hold him to that. >> know you don't want >> well, i know you don't want to defined by this incident >> well, i know you don't want to de you'vey this incident >> well, i know you don't want to de you've been incident >> well, i know you don't want to de you've been arcident >> well, i know you don't want to de you've been a politician >> well, i know you don't want to a deyou've been a politician >> well, i know you don't want to a long)u've been a politician >> well, i know you don't want to a long time,3een a politician >> well, i know you don't want to a long time, and a politician >> well, i know you don't want to a long time, and aknowician for a long time, and i know you've got some very strong beliefs and policy ideas. so let's of beliefs and policy ideas. so let" m atter of beliefs and policy ideas. so let"matter now, of beliefs and policy ideas. so let"matter now, your of beliefs and policy ideas. so let"matter now, your majority the matter now, your majority there in romford is 17,893, so you should all right . you're you should be all right. you're confident of re—election because obviously the obviously we've seen what the tories doing in the polls. tories are doing in the polls. you can't have missed that over the last months. the sort of the last 21 months. the sort of rapid of tory in

rapid decline of tory support in this country. what's your reaction yes. this country. what's your reaiwell, yes. this country. what's your reaiwell, i've yes. this country. what's your reaiwell, i've obviously watched, >> well, i've obviously watched, all kinds of incredible things happenin all kinds of incredible things happen in the last two years. different prime ministers coming and going. and the sad passing of her majesty the queen. and, you i miss some of the you know, i miss some of the events that i would have loved to there for . you to have been there for. you know, the lying in state of her majesty. have been majesty. i'd love to have been there and, know, majesty. i'd love to have been th

back boris. >> look, i spoke in the budget debate other day . i want to debate the other day. i want to get back to proper conservative vision for the country, which means small state, low taxes and get the state out of people's lives and the budget needed to reflect that more. and i said that there hopefully there'll be another autumn, an autumn statement later in year when statement later in the year when they rather more than they can do rather more than they can do rather more than they managed to time. they managed to do this time. i don't think that it's realistic to bring boris back the to bring boris back at the moment. he's not a member of parliament. >> i think should he be brought back don't he back to camp? i don't think he should have gone the first place. >> by the way, supported >> by the way, i supported him. i think should have i don't think he should have been of office. been pushed out of office. i supported my constituents supported him, my constituents voted he had an 80 seat voted for him. he had an 80 seat majority, the biggest majority of prime minister on the of any prime minister on the conservative side since margaret thatcher. he was turfed thatcher. and yet he was turfed out of office. >> i disagreed with, say, not unjustifiably partygate, you know, misleading parliament general, disorganised nation, better at campaigning, less good at governing. having said all that, he's a proven campaigner ,

that, he's a proven campaigner, isn't he? there should be a reaching out from downing street to boris johnson just to campaign because, as you've said , this budget hasn't moved the dial for hunt and sunak has it. >> boris johnson is a huge asset to the conservative and to the conservative party and i'd to see him back in some i'd love to see him back in some kind of role. clearly he's not a member of parliament at the moment, become moment, so he couldn't become leader but it leader of the party. but it would be great news for the conservative party if he were to come help win the election. >> has the government failed the pubuc >> has the government failed the public immigration, do you public on immigration, do you think? know have think? andrew, i know you have got strong opinions about got very strong opinions about it, particularly australian it, particularly the australian points . we've now points based system. we've now got the obr baking into the budget, a forecast for immigration to be around 300,000 per year. that's too high, isn't it? >> yes it is, and i'm afraid we have failed the country on immigration, but all parties have done so. margaret thatcher was very strong on immigration, and knew was and she knew that it was important control important to control immigration. i think really at the time mr blair taking the time of mr blair taking office, everything seemed to have been loosened up. >> can't blame it all on >> but we can't blame it all on blair. we can't, can i mean,

blair. we can't, can we? i mean, 745,000 last year, so much 745,000 in last year, so much for the tens of thousand pledge. you say successive governments. it's 14 years of tory rule unsustainable. >> it cannot go on at the levels it's at at the moment. and i've made that clear that we need to be true to what we've said at every election to control immigration. we haven't done so. the public out there demand that we do. so if it carries on the way it is, we're talking about colossal additional people coming into our country. it's unsustainable. so our government needs to take action to do that. ihave needs to take action to do that. i have no confidence that the labour party will the only party that will have any hope of controlling immigration will be the conservative party, being a brexiteer and a righty and somebody who talks about small state and low tax and indeed about lower immigration, you would a perfect candidate, would be a perfect candidate, wouldn't a crossing of wouldn't you, for a crossing of the floor to reform. have you been tapped up by farage or tice because they're boasting of speaking conservatives . speaking to many conservatives. and i just think you might fit that mould. what's your

reaction? >> have been approached, >> i have not been approached, and any other and nor would i join any other party the party other than the conservative you conservative party so you can forget fair enough. forget that. fair enough. i'm not an not going to make an announcement on but did announcement on that. but i did see widdecombe other see ann widdecombe the other evening, friend evening, who's a personal friend of with lady amiss. of mine with lady amiss. actually, to southend actually, we went to southend and a lovely catch up, and we had a lovely catch up, and we had a lovely catch up, and lot of what and i agree with a lot of what reforms stand for. but look, if the right divided , the winner the right is divided, the winner will be the labour party and that will be a catastrophe . so that will be a catastrophe. so i do say to people thinking about voting reform, if you vote conservative, you may not be happy us on everything. happy with us on everything. yes, you on yes, we have let you down on certain the last certain areas, but the last thing is a massive thing we want is a massive majority. for keir starmer, that would catastrophe . would be a catastrophe. >> but you can't blame conservatives because you're one of them for being completely disenfranchised of them for being completely disenfra|t0|ised of them for being completely disenfra|to be d of them for being completely disenfra|to be a very centrist appears to be a very centrist administration, a non—tory tory party at the moment, led by a couple of people who wouldn't look of place in new labour. look out of place in new labour. >> you to romford, >> if you come to romford, camilla to camilla and you're welcome to come you'll find that come any time, you'll find that constituents will say constituents of mine will say exactly doorstep . exactly that on the doorstep. they're they voted for they're not happy they voted for a thought were going a party they thought were going to do a of things, and we

to do a lot of things, and we haven't managed achieve all haven't managed to achieve all of did get of those things. we did get brexit brexit brexit done. brexit was finalised . we that was put finalised. we that was put through at the start of boris's turn . but they are disappointed turn. but they are disappointed on immigration, on high levels of and on various other of tax and on various other things. so we need to get back to core conservative principles again, right? >> andrew rosindell, thank you very for telling us your very much for telling us your story. thank you very much. lovely back in lovely to see you back in parliament and back in the studio. you very studio. well, thank you very much just minute studio. well, thank you very much going just minute studio. well, thank you very much going speakingminute studio. well, thank you very much going speaking to 1ute , i'm going to be speaking to the state for the secretary of state for health care, victoria health and social care, victoria atkins nhs fit for atkins is the nhs fit for purpose, and one of the tories going to come up with a plan for social care, tuned

welcome back to the camilla tominey show on gb news now, i was hoping to speak to the health secretary, victoria atkins. appears have atkins. she appears to have gone awol so going bring awol, so i'm going to bring

andrew back the andrew rosindell back into the conversation. speak conversation. i'm going to speak to victoria i hope about to victoria atkins. i hope about the have noted in the the nhs you'll have noted in the budget yet more spending for the health service. no spending, i noted, as i sure you did on defence, is this idea of pouring yet more money into the nhs ? i yet more money into the nhs? i think it's an extra 5 billion for a digitisation project going to help win votes on the doorstep . doorstep. >> camilla, i'm never going to criticise money that's spent on health care because it's important to the british people. i do worry that we keep shovelling money into public services and it's going into a big black hole. i don't know where and what i want where it's going and what i want to see is an efficiently run national health service, so throwing money at something isn't simple answer to the isn't the simple answer to the problem. the problem is also running an organisation that actually delivers, and i do fear that every government promises more and more and more money for the service . and yet we the health service. and yet we don't really always see the benefits of that. so it's also about organisation and management and spending money efficiently. and that's not what

we've very much of. we've seen very much of. >> i mean, i feel that the government has missed a trick, particularly when it comes to pensioners, course, pensioners, because of course, the long the tories have long been promising this care plan. promising this social care plan. i'd the pensioners in i'd imagine the pensioners in romford are in desperate need of some clarity adult social some clarity about adult social care . if they go into care care. if they go into care homes, do they need to sell their we had that talk, their homes? we had that talk, didn't dilnot didn't we? after the dilnot reforms on social care. reforms of a cap on social care. is that something that voters talk to you a lot about? very much so, yes. >> it's one of things that >> it's one of the things that people of most about people are afraid of most about what will happen latter what will happen in the latter years. and owning their own homes and wanting to leave their property as they rightly should, to their to their children, and then finding they can't do so because going in, because it's all going in, paying because it's all going in, paying care . no paying for social care. no government has got a grip of this problem , and it is a this problem, and it is a serious issue that needs to be addressed now in terms of sort of and greater london. of london and greater london. >> talked earlier about >> we've talked earlier about the idea of perhaps the tories facing some kind of electoral wipe—out. it does look as if london going to be lost by london is going to be lost by

the blues. do you have faith in the blues. do you have faith in the tory candidate, susan hall, to beat sadiq khan? because there's a contradiction here, isn't there? the london mayor is never been more unpopular. obviously schemes like ulez , low obviously schemes like ulez, low traffic neighbourhoods and other sort of net zero, motivated policies have proved really unpopular with people in the caphal unpopular with people in the capital. we've then got the issue of the pro—palestinian marches and how they're making jews feel in london. and yet i don't susan hall at the don't think susan hall at the moment is looking like she can topple the london mayor. do you? >> i hope susan does. i think she's a great candidate . i think she's a great candidate. i think she's a great candidate. i think she's a great candidate. i think she's a genuine person. she's come from grassroots as come up from the grassroots as a councillor in harrow, and i think deserves support think that she deserves support and don't write her off, because if you remember last time shaun bailey way behind. but in bailey was way behind. but in the closing of the closing days of the election, he actually got a lot closer than people expected. what tell you, camilla is what i can tell you, camilla is in romford. people are voting for her massively. >> thank you very much, andrew. i think we are joined by the

i think we now are joined by the secretary state for health i think we now are joined by the sechocial state for health i think we now are joined by the sechocial care, e for health i think we now are joined by the sechocial care, victoria alth i think we now are joined by the sechocial care, victoria atkins and social care, victoria atkins , the mp for louth and horncastle. hello. lovely to see you minister. horncastle. hello. lovely to see you you minister. horncastle. hello. lovely to see you you joining|ister. horncastle. hello. lovely to see you you joining me.'. horncastle. hello. lovely to see you you joining me. we've thank you for joining me. we've been talking this morning. i've had kwasi kwarteng in the studio and others talking about whether the too labour the budget was a bit too labour light, according to the sunday telegraph, the public telegraph, half the public don't think any think it will make any difference to their finances. it's endorsement it's not a ringing endorsement of what the chancellor announced on it ? on wednesday, is it? >> well, look, this is a budget that delivered a tax cut. the second consecutive tax cut over the last two fiscal events for 29 million people who are working. that is a significant, tax cut for them. we know that for the average worker on some £35,400, they will see an overall tax cut of £900 for my nurses , my hospital porters, my nurses, my hospital porters, my receptionist and many others who work in the nhs. receptionist and many others who work in the nhs . that will be work in the nhs. that will be a very significant addition to their pay packet. but we've also managed to achieve through this

budget not just that tax cut. we've also been able to help half a million families with child benefit. we know there have been difficulties at the very top end of the threshold for child benefit. half a million about to million families are about to see benefits of up to £1,200 from those changes. and in addition to that, the chancellor was able to protect day to day spending for my department and for the nhs, but importantly, also to prepare the nhs for the future. with our £3.4 billion productivity package, which is a really great news. this plan is going to really help prepare the nhs for the future health secretary, i can understand why you're happy the budget you're happy with the budget because get because obviously you did get that for health care. >> gl g is an argument, however >> there is an argument, however , to say, know, how long , to say, you know, how long does go on does the government go on pounng does the government go on pouring money into the nhs if it needs reformed and it needs to be reformed and it needs to be reformed and it needs to be more value for money and it needs to cut waste? >> well, camilla, and i are >> well, camilla, you and i are as one on that in that we know we're spending record amounts on the nhs. we have more doctors

and nurses than ever before. thatis and nurses than ever before. that is fantastic news. but we also know that in the ten years between 2010 and 2020, the productivity productivity rate of the nhs was higher than it is today. now look, we had a very difficult time during the pandemic and it is taking time to recover from the pandemic, which is why, for example, we have fully funded recovery plans for emergency services for elective operations and so on and for primary care. but we want to go further. and this productivity plan that is fully funded, by the way, means that we will be using technology and ai we will be using technology and al to not only improve the working lives of doctors and nurses, so they're spending more time with patients than they are with paperwork, but also critically using state critically getting using state of the art scanners and other technology to make sure that when patients go in for their diagnoses, they are getting the best and the quickest service they possibly can. patients who need to get in for those diagnoses , don't they? and fairer. >> okay. but patients actually

have to get through the door. and there are waiting lists now they're approaching 8 million people will rightly be asking themselves, this money, themselves, how does this money, how does the digitisation project get the waiting list down? so tell us unequivocally, when will the waiting list come down, how will they down, and how much will they come say , by the end of come down by, say, by the end of next year? so, so we have already seen the last three months. >> we have seen waiting lists decrease and that is despite industrial action. so a huge amount of energy, between well november, november to january, it's about 150, 160,000. we've got the cumulative figures. it's you know, it is the start of what i want to see our recovery across these drop in the ocean isn't it. >> compared to 8 million. well yeah. >> and you are right. absolutely. to you know we are absolutely right to focus on this. we have had industrial action. we know that's had an impact. so for example for the

12 months from december last yean 12 months from december last year, saw some 1.4 million year, we saw some 1.4 million appointments cancelled. there will be listeners and viewers at home watching this who have had their own appointments cancelled. but despite that, we've been able to make some progress. i am determined that we further than this, and we go further than this, and this is why the investment that we heard the budget is so we heard at the budget is so significant, not only significant, because not only will the foot on the will we keep the foot on the accelerator when it comes to electives, to those waiting lists, but also i want to help clinicians spend more time looking at patients , as i say, looking at patients, as i say, than looking at computer screens. we know from looking around the world some of these computer systems, they can help free up a quarter of a free up to a quarter of a clinicians time in a single appointment. and that's how we're improve productivity. >> had productivity. >> the nhs has had problems in the past with computer system rollouts, but nevertheless one of people's panellists was of our people's panellists was asking how you stop the exodus of good doctors and nurses to the likes of australia, canada and zealand. i mean, you've and new zealand. i mean, you've got the junior doctors and

others calling for higher wages . others calling for higher wages. that's what's going to stop them, otherwise, if them, isn't it? otherwise, if they better off in they feel they're better off in other and indeed other countries and indeed they're less pressure, they're under less pressure, they're under less pressure, they're away . they're going to move away. >> well, actually we have more doctors and more nurses today than we have ever had. to put that into context. we've something like 250 more doctors each month, and something like 400 nurses each month for every month . we have been in power month. we have been in power since 2010. but you are right to say to challenge me on, you know, what are we doing? both to recruit but also to retain doctors and nurses. and is doctors and nurses. and this is why this week i was really pleased that i've been able to find a settlement with consultants, which they're putting their members. i hope putting to their members. i hope their consultants will feel able to support it. that will help ensure that we bring an end to industrial action for consultants junior doctors. consultants with junior doctors. ihave consultants with junior doctors. i have said to them, i want to do a deal. you know, they have already had a pay increase of up to 10.3% this year, but i want to 10.3% this year, but i want to do a deal. it is a great shame. i think, that they walked

away from those negotiations last year, but if they come back to with reasonable to the table with reasonable expectations , i want to do expectations, i want to do a deal expectations, i want to do a deal. and what is more, i'm not just at pay. i to just looking at pay. i want to act on of the concerns i act on some of the concerns i have heard from not just doctors, but nurses other doctors, but nurses and other people working in the nhs about their working conditions. you know, nhs cares for know, i think the nhs cares for us the nhs should care us and the nhs should also care for staff . and so i'm for its staff. and so i'm determined not just to look at pay determined not just to look at pay but look at working pay but also to look at working conditions as well. >> question. health >> just a final question. health secretary on anti—semitism in health care. know been health care. i know you've been investigating one particular doctor who was suspended from the register for the medical register for a utany the medical register for a litany of anti—semitic, racist and sexist messages. but then he may be back in his post. this doctor darky's he may be back in his post in three months time. should doctors who are being anti—semitic, racist and sexist ever their jobs back ? ever get their jobs back? >> so i hope you'll understand. camilla, i can't comment on

individual cases, but what i can tell your audience is that some months ago i wrote to both nhs england and to the regulators across health care to underline our expectation that their members and staff working in the nhs will adhere to the values of the nhs and that any incidents of language or , views that do of language or, views that do not sit in accordance with those views, that they will be challenged and dealt with by oh, forgive me, i'm going to fly without my earpiece that they will be dealt with, appropriately and accordingly. and i do, you know, everybody in the nhs , everybody in the the nhs, everybody in the regulators i know wants to ensure that those standards are maintained. okay, i'm really sorry. i've lost my earpiece, so i'm just going to i can assume that i i'm just going to i can assume thati can i'm just going to i can assume that i can see the health secretary, victoria atkins, has lost earpiece. secretary, victoria atkins, has lostbut earpiece. secretary, victoria atkins, has lostbut thankece. secretary, victoria atkins, has lostbut thank you very to

>> but thank you very much to her joining this morning. her forjoining us this morning. coming next, amid reports coming up next, amid reports that become go that london has become a no go zone jews weekends , i'll zone for jews on weekends, i'll be speaking to the government's anti—semitism john anti—semitism tsar, lord john mann. is rishi sunak doing enough to combat extremism in the u.k? tuned

welcome back to the camilla tominey show on gb news, let's get back to reading now. catherine forces with the people's panel. i tried to get a few of their questions in there. catherine. i hope they recognised that. but what's the verdict? from reading ? verdict? from reading? >> yes. thank you very much , >> yes. thank you very much, camilla. we did hear that. i'm going to ask, charles, first of all, because i think you asked two of his questions, both to kwasi kwarteng and victoria atkins and charles, first of all, what did you make about

what that former chancellor had to say about the current chancellors budget, first of all, and then also his response to your question , i don't think to your question, i don't think he was too, too in praise of the present budget. >> and as we said earlier on, it's sweets today, but it's best if we all go out and get to know a good dentist, because we're going to need him down further down i think. down the line. i think. >> also your question about >> and also your question about liz truss's comments about the deep state were put to kwasi kwarteng. what did you think of his response? >> his response was neither here or there. actually, he didn't deny didn't consent deny it, but he didn't consent to it either. he gave typical to it either. he gave a typical politician answer, but i think there's definitely something was going on in the background all the time. >> a typical politicians answer. we do get a few of those. unfortunately and john, i'll come to you next because we're talking a lot about health. the fact that we're spending more and more, we seem to get less and more, we seem to get less and less. and you worked as a management consulting within the nhs and what did you think of

what the current health secretary had to say? and also what do you think the solutions are for the very big are for the nhs? very big problems. yeah, i think she, she basically repeated the initiatives, the extra funding, but i didn't detect anything strategic in her responses. i didn't i haven't detected anything about a strategy to fix the fundamental structural problems in the nhs. the long terme trends of population growth and greater complexity, ageing profile of the population. there's no strategy there. it's all itsy bitsy bits of money here and initiative there. but there is no holistic approach and there's no strategic approach to solving the biggest problem we have in the biggest problem we have in the public sector. and that is the public sector. and that is the black hole of the nhs . the black hole of the nhs. >> thank you for that, you've all been conservative voters. fair to say. you're all pretty disaffected ed with them. as things stand, as are many people, nicola, if i could ask you, there was a bit of chat,

wasn't there, about boris johnson's some speculation that he might stand and come back, what do you think about that? he used to be your mp, didn't he? >> and i would say he was a very good local mp. and i had such high hopes when he became prime minister. having said that, i was very disappointed . he showed was very disappointed. he showed himself he wasn't churchillian when came down to he was when it came down to it. he was weak pandemic. locked weak in the pandemic. he locked down, advice of down, on the advice of scientists without taking a broader view, and he he's also been very heavy on net zero, and i consider him to be actually more of a lib dem than a conservative. and i think many conservative. and i think many conservative voters would feel the same way. >> yeah, interesting that many people think he's of the right, but in fact quite on the left of the party in many ways. so at the party in many ways. so at the moment , the party in many ways. so at the moment, of these three former conservative voters, i'm afraid there's not a single one for the conservatives as things stand, they've got a big mountain to climb ahead of the next election. back to you,

camilla. >> great job in reading , >> great job in reading, catherine. thank you very much. and thank you to the people's panel. don't forget, if you'd like apply, it couldn't like to apply, it couldn't be eafien like to apply, it couldn't be easier. have email easier. you just have to email people's panel at gb news. .uk, now i had planned to speak to lord john mann, the anti—semitism tsar , but anti—semitism tsar, but unfortunately we're having trouble getting contact with trouble getting in contact with him . so i think let's say that him. so i think let's say that we'll table that interview till next he's available. next week. if he's available. but worry, because but don't worry, because up next, , i will be next, as promised, i will be speaking to stanley johnson to hear about latest ventures hear about his latest ventures and ask what he makes of reports of comeback. don't go of a boris comeback. don't go anywhere

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. as promised. as billed . author. environmental billed. author. environmental campaigner. former mep , father campaigner. former mep, father of boris johnson. stanley johnson joins me now in the studio. >> father of quite a few others, actually. >> actually, father of a lot of children, a lot of very

successful children , not just successful children, not just a former prime minister. that's a good point. i might ask you about your parenting skills later. however, all, later. however, first of all, let's about polo , the let's talk about marco polo, the subject of your latest book. >> have been so lucky, so >> i have been so lucky, so lucky.i >> i have been so lucky, so lucky. i set off in 1961 just over 60 years ago, with tim severin and michael de larrabeiti on a motorcycle to try and get from venice to china on a motorcycle, where we got right to the chinese border . and right to the chinese border. and 62 years later, with my son max, we have had a chance to finish that journey off. and i did eight weeks this summer. one tribe tv, working together with chinese cctv put a fantastic team in the field and we went from mountain to mountain, from prairie to prairie. we went from the himalayas . the himalayas. >> we're seeing some footage how. >> now. >> we went from the himalayas. >> we went from the himalayas. >> fabulous. oh that's it. were you on the back of a motorbike, though, stanley? that's what i want to know. >> were as our main >> oh, we were not as our main means transport, but means of transport, but i certainly on a motorcycle

certainly got on a motorcycle once twice. and son. once or twice. and your son. that's are. are that's where we are. we are coming down now the high coming down now from the high pamirs that, by pamirs towards kashgar. that, by the was glacier. the way, that was the glacier. that's biggest that's one of the biggest glaciers china. glaciers in in china. it's a 7000 that mountain. wow. 7000 foot at that mountain. wow. 7000, 7000 7000m litres footage. >> now, stanley and his son max. and they're kind of going through. >> oh, look, that's me on the yak road. that is me mounted on a yak. and actually , it's a yak a yak. and actually, it's a yak race. you could say it's a yak yak yak . yak yak. >> i mean, of all of the things you've achieved in your career so far, sadly , i think yak so far, sadly, i think yak racing is probably up there. why should care about marco polo? should we care about marco polo? >> was fantastic. >> because he was fantastic. he was set off from from was a man who set off from from venice with his uncle and his father, set off in 1271. father, and he set off in 1271. it took him four years to reach china . and he four years, four china. and he four years, four years, four years. well, he spent one year, for example , in spent one year, for example, in gansu town called zigi, gansu at a town called zigi, which also went to. and there which we also went to. and there was the biggest lying butter in the world in, in, in xinjiang. he spent four but he was he spent four years, but he was able to take advantage of the peace prosperity . which

peace and prosperity. which would you believe it wrought by the mongol empire , the mongol the mongol empire, the mongol rule? yes. you had genghis khan, marco polo had to pay homage when he got to beijing, to kublai khan . kublai khan, who kublai khan. kublai khan, who was genghis khan's grandson. so, yes, it's very strange. for me, it was a historical revelation to realise i know. >> i love that you're calling this work, by the way. i mean, it looks absolutely fantastic. >> well, it was fantastic. >> well, it was fantastic. >> but i tell you something. i have a serious have written a very serious book. is 70,000 at book. it is 70,000 words at first. first part, then first. it's the first part, then it's the second part, as you might say. and here we are in the desert. some dancing might say. and here we are in the deon.:. some dancing might say. and here we are in the deon. and some dancing might say. and here we are in the deon. and it'll,ome dancing might say. and here we are in the deon. and it'll, it'll, dancing might say. and here we are in the deon. and it'll, it'll, it'scing going on. and it'll, it'll, it's going on. and it'll, it'll, it's going to be called in the footsteps of marco polo and it'll out actually at the it'll come out actually at the same time i hope as the of same time i hope as the film of this series, which as i said, film well is fourth number book. >> this stanley? h >> is this stanley? because i know written dozens. know you've read written dozens. >> afraid this is >> you know, i'm afraid this is my 26th. 26. there were 13, 13 novels, 13 fat books and two volumes of talk about china or

china, as donald trump likes to describe it. >> do you think we're i mean, i know you're a cinephile . i know know you're a cinephile. i know this about you. and therefore, do you think that we demonise china a bit too much in the west? >> well, i have been following china fairly closely, as china fairly closely, not as closely isabel closely as people like isabel hilton, obviously , but i was hilton, obviously, but i was actually the eu actually part of the first eu delegation go to china in delegation to go to china in 1975. august 1975. mao was still in power, i think 10 or 15 of us went representing an informal way. the eu. and i learned a lot then, and i've been going back ever since. three of my novels have actually had a chinese base . one was even called dragon river, how built river, about how they built a huge called are we huge dam called are we mishandling relationship mishandling our relationship with mean, obviously got >> i mean, we've obviously got concerns about taiwan invaded. >> bit of a fan of the >> i'm a bit of a fan of the osborne. cameron. yes golden era of chinese relationships. i'd like to see president xi back in that pub in chequers, really, what with everything going on with chinese spying and infiltration of, i think , infiltration of, i think, parliament. well, all i can say is i live by what i could see.

and we had eight weeks moving from place to place, being fairly under unscrew opted, i've got to say, and i came out. but for years from my point of view, because you were a westerner, you're very kindly introduced me as an environmentalist. i as an environmentalist. and i looked . every hilltop we looked at this. every hilltop we saw a wind turbine on it. saw had a wind turbine on it. the solar panels, every desert had solar panels. imagine you're a country like china. >> i know, but china hasn't got the best record when it comes to fossil fuels. sadly i mean, we can't be holding it up as a beacon. >> i will hold you up as a beacon. >> even those building ever more power stations. well what it is doing really galloping. doing is really galloping. >> down the renewable >> galloping down the renewable energies front. i mean, the other day, the secretary—general of the united nations said we needed 11 terawatts china account for like the majority of global carbon emissions. and no, it doesn't it absolutely doesn't. it is it is a big emitter as the eu is and as the united states is glad you

mentioned the eu. >> should we talk about the eu and talk about the fact that obviously keir starmer is advocating a closer relationship with the eu? i know you love the eu, therefore , nor would you be eu, therefore, nor would you be tempted to vote labour at the next election . next general election. >> nothing tempt me to >> nothing would tempt me to vote labour. what would tempt me is a coherent policy now to rebuild bridges with europe. i mean, it seems to me absolutely absurd that we are setting ourselves up, having come out to say, oh well, now we must more and more separate ourselves out . and more separate ourselves out. >> now, if somebody close to you once leave means leave . once said leave means leave. well, is that a point, mark? well, is that not a point, mark? >> i've built bridges between east and west. i'm now in a bndge east and west. i'm now in a bridge building mode, and i would like to see, for example, i think, do you know something? i think, do you know something? i think, do you know something? i think i would vote for any political party, which this political party, which at this point said, want to bring point said, i want to bring europe uk back into the european environment agency. we were always there. okay. >> well, therefore you're voting

for starmer then? >> well, no, he's not said that. well almost said he has well he's almost said no. he has not that. needs to say not said that. he needs to say that said that would that because he said that would you vote for him. >> that what said. >> is that what i said. >> is that what i said. >> well well i tell >> well i might well i tell you something. something >> well i might well i tell you s might ng. something >> well i might well i tell you s might gb something >> well i might well i tell you smight gb news something >> well i might well i tell you s might gb news exclusive thing >> well i might well i tell you smight gb news exclusive alert. i might gb news exclusive alert. >> labour. >> i might vote for labour. >> i might vote for labour. >> what is more important? >> what is more important? >> johnson, what is >> says stanley johnson, what is more end, a more important at the end, a political some political party or some absolutely massively important topic, environment absolutely massively important topic, pins environment absolutely massively important topic, pins down environment absolutely massively important topic, pins down what ironment absolutely massively important topic, pins down what you nent absolutely massively important topic, pins down what you cant absolutely massively important topic, pins down what you can do which pins down what you can do for generations to come and i would say that's more important. l, would say that's more important. i, you know, i would buy i would buy into any by the way, if i go back, if i go back to the, let's say, the 2015 tory manifesto , say, the 2015 tory manifesto, which had a lot of good stuff. and i think my son joe was pretty heavily involved in writing 2015 manifesto. i'll writing the 2015 manifesto. i'll vote for anybody who does not like the 2019 manifesto, the 20, you know as well as well as joe, i think was involved in writing that. >> well, i think boris, if you actually mentioning bob, were you mentioning boris joining boris? >> funny you should mention boris. he's the subject again of

some speculation in this morning's papers. >> i it something like >> i saw it something like 20,000 words by camilla camilla tominey. >> i did write a long piece yesterday about whether i read it. boris should be brought back to henley. what do you think? >> actually slipped >> well, you actually slipped into that henley into the fact that henley already candidate. already had a candidate. >> oh, no. but it has a candidate very close to candidate that's very close to bofis candidate that's very close to boris yeah, boris johnson and 1. yeah, he was . was. >> you'd have to be pretty close to yeah, i've actually been to say. yeah, i've actually been selected in selected as the tory party in candidate going candidate and now i'm not going to deselect. although to say deselect. although i noficed to say deselect. although i noticed today you were running a piece about dear people. piece about dear resting people. >> deselecting is thing. >> de—selection . but to be >> de—selection. but to be serious for a moment, presumably you've had conversations with your son, whom you're your son, of whom you're extremely proud and therefore who am i am well pleased. indeed so and so . if there was a call so and so. if there was a call from rishi sunak for him to go back to campaign, and indeed he had an a cincinnatus style sort of inkling that he wants a comeback, would you? i mean, is that credible? would you? >> i notice you're cincinnatus reference in that in that piece?

well, cincinnatus actually came back, and i don't think the fate which greeted cincinnati on his return totally to totally return was totally to be totally emulated. do you know emulated. no do you know something? i think i would take a pretty tough line and if my eldest my eldest son were eldest son, my eldest son were to say to me, look, dad, i'm thinking of, you know, starting again off in politics would you support me? i say, look, i'm going to make a pretty tough, tough bargain here, boris, in terms terms my support, terms of in terms of my support, i'm only going to support you coming back into the political fray . if you start really fray. if you start really pushing again on the environmental stuff, which you've pushed very hard on. and if you really say, look, i may have been responsible for brexit, job is to brexit, but now my job is to rebuild that, rebuild that bridge. those are those are bridge. so those are those are two pretty, pretty firm bids i'd make before i voted again. >> well, it sounds like you're going to be saying to him, you'll this. you'll have to do this. otherwise i might vote for keir starmer. well, i think have to >> well, i think he'd have to take seriously. take this very seriously. i think to take the think he would have to take the threat disapproval . threat of parental disapproval. >> if i want to be >> i'm not sure if i want to be around johnson table

around the johnson dinner table for but do you for that debate, but do you concur with who say, concur with people who say, stanley, that he could prove to be the saviour of the tory party, a tory party on its knees right now? >> well , well, right now? >> well, well, again, i'm going to say i would make a conditional or a conditional on this one. i don't think the tory party is going to be saved by a move to the right. the tory party is going to be saved by someone who says , look, we were someone who says, look, we were going well. it was tedious . going well. it was tedious. >> boris isn't on the right. so he could be the saviour of the centre. well i'm on for that. >> i'm absolutely i'm absolutely on for example, on for that. for example, you take plastics. yes, plastics. a world, world issue, a fantastically important issue. i mean, i happen to believe that we ought to be making a lot of fuss plastics. fuss about plastics. >> he makes about >> so if he makes a fuss about plastics , then vote plastics, then you'll vote for him. a future tory him. if he were a future tory leader and not keir starmer, i think nailed that, think we've nailed down that, at least sadly. least today, sadly. we look forward your and indeed forward to your book and indeed your marco polo. thank your film on marco polo. thank your film on marco polo. thank you joining your film on marco polo. thank you for joining your film on marco polo. thank you forjoining joining your film on marco polo. thank you forjoining jbiting me and forjoining a little bit of joshing, charitable of joshing, which is charitable of joshing, which is charitable of well, that's of you. thank you. well, that's it for today. don't

it from me for today. don't forget, i'm going to be back next week at 930. as ever. don't forget, you can up on my forget, you can catch up on my show at 6 pm. if you haven't caught all of it today. and don't that michael don't forget that michael portillo next 11. portillo is up next from 11. have day and happy have a great day and happy mother's everyone mother's day to everyone celebrating . celebrating. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello. good morning. welcome to your latest gp. news, weather from the met office. it's going to be a cloudy day today. there'll be outbreaks of light rain and drizzle and it's still a chilly feel for the time of year two. and looking at the picture for this morning, lot picture for this morning, a lot of cloud across uk. of cloud across the uk. outbreaks rain many outbreaks of rain across many areas , just a bit of sunshine areas, just a bit of sunshine towards the southwest and that remains so for the afternoon too. but this could trigger 1 or 2 showers as we move through into the evening time elsewhere.

generally it stays cloudy for much of the day, outbreaks of light rain and drizzle, and the wind coming in off the wind still coming in off the nonh wind still coming in off the north so a chilly for north sea, so a chilly feel for many of us into the evening time. this rain will continue to push its way westward. still, a lot of low cloud behind it. some drizzle in places too, so a damp evening to come and that takes us into monday as well . it us into monday as well. it remains cloudy through sunday night. further outbreaks of light rain and drizzle in places, some low cloud leading to some foggy conditions over the higher ground and temperatures again falling to around mid single figures due to the cloud cover not falling too low at all. but it does mean another cloudy grey start to monday. of and monday. outbreaks of rain and drizzle feeding in off the north sea, particularly down these eastern remaining quite eastern areas, remaining quite damp for much of the day. best of any brighter spells will be towards coast, but even towards western coast, but even here will remain largely here it will remain largely cloudy through the day. some showery rain for northern ireland too, and temperatures just about getting double just about getting into double figures. you soon. figures. see you soon. >> like things are heating

>> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. away. >> good morning, and welcome to sunday with michael portillo. let us escape the gloomy weather. with a gambol through the golden gates that give on to culture, politics and world affairs . the nation was waiting affairs. the nation was waiting to hear whether jeremy affairs. the nation was waiting to hear whetherjeremy hunt would cut our tax burden in his budget on wednesday, only towards the end of his hour long statement did he reveal that national insurance would be reduced by two percentage points for the second time in six months. the reduction was parcelled in a pledge to

eliminate national insurance