at risk? after two public at risk? after two decades of talks, a film recreating the notorious 1967 rolling stones drug bust resulting in what could have been the end of the band before it even started. later exonerated thanks to a leading times article written by my own late great father, has finally been given the green light. i'm going to be joined by rolling stones biographer to look back at this remarkable episode in british history . state of british history. state of the nafion british history. state of the nation starts now. i'll also be joined by my most theatrical panel barrister and former tory mp , jerry hayes, and former tory mp, jerry hayes, and the author and journalist michael crick. as always , i want michael crick. as always, i want to from you. it's a crucial to hear from you. it's a crucial part programme. email me part of the programme. email me mar—a—lago mynewsgh.com. but now it's of the it's time for the news of the day with wenzler .

day with sophia wenzler. >> thanks, jacob. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. your top story this hour. downing street has said comments allegedly made by a tory donor about mp diane abbott were racist and wrong. it comes as the police are understood to have been contacted over francesca's alleged remarks. the conservative party's biggest donor reportedly said miss abbott made him want to hate all black women and she should be shot. mr hester has now apologised and says he abhors racism. mr abbott, who's now an independent mp, described the comments as frightening and worrying in a statement issued this evening, the prime minister's spokesman said mr hester has now rightly apologised for the offence caused and where remorse is shown, it should be accepted. lee anderson made his first appearance in the commons this afternoon since defecting to reform uk. he took his seat on the opposition benches next to george galloway. mr anderson was stripped of the conservative whip last month after refusing

to apologise for saying that islamists had got control of the mayor of london. new gas power plants will be built to protect britain's energy security, despite concerns over the potential impact on climate change. the government says the new stations are needed to avert what ministers described as the genuine prospect of blackouts and provide a back up for the growing electric economy. it's understood they'll replace existing facilities, many of which are old and due to be retired. the prime minister insists the uk's net zero plan is still on track, but says it must be met in a sustainable way. labour supports the new plans , but shadow energy plans, but shadow energy secretary ed miliband accused the government of failing on its energy policies, leading to sky rocketing bills. children in england who identify as trans will no longer be prescribed puberty blockers. the government said it welcomed the landmark decision, which they say is in the best interests of children. puberty blockers , which pause puberty blockers, which pause physical changes in young people, will now only be

available to children as part of clinical research trials. and what does the queen have in common with elton john, marilyn monroe and elvis presley ? monroe and elvis presley? they've all been immortalised in the form their very own the form of their very own barbie doll. her majesty was presented with toy today. as presented with the toy today. as you can see, wearing matching outfits in recognition of her support for the women of the world foundation , joking that it world foundation, joking that it made her look 50 years younger. she's the latest in a long line of notable people, past and present, whose likenesses have been by the world's been captured by the world's most doll . and for the most famous doll. and for the latest story, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts. now it's back to . jacob. to. jacob. >> the net zero fallacy means we have some of the world's most expensive energy cost per kilowatt hour in the uk is

$0.44. in the united states, $0.17 in china $0.08, and in india again $0.08 per kilowatt houn india again $0.08 per kilowatt hour. at the heart of britain's energy infrastructure is a fundamental untruth . the untruth fundamental untruth. the untruth is that net zero is affordable, achievable. it is not net zero. the push towards it, the budgets towards it is making us cold and poon towards it is making us cold and poor. and the prime minister has recognised that it could get worse without today's announcement of the continuation of old gas power stations as well as the building of new ones, as a means of preventing blackouts . this news is blackouts. this news is certainly welcome and i'm pleased to see he accepts the unreliability of renewable energy and how it increases the risk of blackouts, mainly because the sun doesn't shine enoughin because the sun doesn't shine enough in britain and there's plenty of time when the wind doesn't blow either. often, when demand highest, he's demand is at its highest, he's right to point out that the labour party's plans to decarbonise the grid by 2030 are a fantasy , which really would a fantasy, which really would expose us to the real prospect

of blackouts. but as ross clark in the spectator today has pointed out, this plan isn't much better under the conservatives. the grid is to be decarbonised by 2035. a mere five years later than labour's fantasy plan. so if we need gas power stations to meet the failure of supply from renewable energy now and in six years time, what makes them different in 11 years time, the answer is very little. we may have developed some energy storage technology or some carbon capture , but the point is that capture, but the point is that he is effectively proposing continuing and building new gas power stations , only for them to power stations, only for them to be out of use in a few years, unless the prime minister or sir keir starmer, for that matter, has plans for britain to be moved to iceland during the summer, sun always summer, when the sun always shines equator during shines and the equator during the also ensuring the winter, whilst also ensuring that always windy. the grid that it's always windy. the grid decarbonising cannot decarbonising strategy cannot not work at an affordable price. we will always need a reliable form of energy such as gas , to form of energy such as gas, to shield us from these moments where renewables fail and even

before decarbonisation, when we're willing to use the gas power stations. there's another fundamental untruth at hand. this stop start system makes gas more expensive. if you run gas power stations the whole time, they are cheaper and more efficient . the intermittency efficient. the intermittency when you have renewables coming in and out makes the cost higher because they have to get up to full speed and then be wound back down again. and this is the hidden subsidy of renewables that underpins that $0.44 a kilowatt hour, compared to $17 in the united states. these operating costs are inevitably passed on to you . so it's passed on to you. so it's anywhere in this net zero. untruth is fully recognised by our leaders that we will be able to ensure british people have cheap energy. and it's interesting indeed , it's rare interesting indeed, it's rare for our non—democratic institutions. the quangos , institutions. the quangos, regulators, expert committees to engagein regulators, expert committees to engage in thought that breaks with consensus. bureaucratic orthodoxy . so it does happen.

orthodoxy. so it does happen. it's worth listening to. that's why it's so important and interesting that ofgem, the energy regulator , has affirmed energy regulator, has affirmed what we knew to be true that net zero hits the poorest in society in the hardest because they spend more of their disposable income on energy than the richest in society. what we need is a sensible energy policy that prioritises cheap energy for you, and industrialisation as well . we therefore need well. we therefore need indefinitely to postpone the net zero 2050 pledge until other countries catch up. otherwise britain would be fastened to a cold and poor future. as ever. let me know your thoughts mailmogg@gbnews.com . and let me know your thoughts mailmogg@gbnews.com .and i'm mailmogg@gbnews.com. and i'm very pleased to be joined now by a friend of the programme, senior meteorologist for the british weather service, jim dale. you for coming dale. jim, thank you for coming in. good evening, renewables are always going to need backup supply, aren't they? and this is where the cost comes in. that is making us uncompetitive as a

country. >> i think at this moment it is fair to say that there needs to be a backup because we're not there. in transition zone. there. we're in transition zone. what given the what you just, given the audience is to me is a volte face from the conservative party that's what's happened today. let's make that absolutely clear. and you wonder why . and clear. and you wonder why. and you wonder why. and you think to yourself, well, i think to myself, it's election year and there captured there needs to be votes captured from another party called the reform party, because what you've just actually said , you've just actually said, jacob, is more or less what reform say as well. and i wonder why. i why that might be why. i wonder why that might be the case, the that the case, that the fact that you've lost mp you've just lost an mp two reform now sitting reform and now we're sitting here a day later and we're suddenly advocating a reform uk party, proposition because the current policy isn't working. >> well, we're not there yet. it's making this country poor. >> i'll tell you what's making the poor . your the country poor. your constituents in somerset, isn't it? okay have you it? that's right. okay have you seen the somerset levels of late? >> well, i don't cover the somerset levels. no. >> but you. >> but you. >> yeah. i'm under water. but

that's. but that's at least in part because the environment agency refused to dredge the failure dredge in the failure to dredge in the somerset levels led to the flooding ten years ago. we used to be able to control the levels, that was done from levels, and that was done from the 18th century. dutch drainage engineers brought over and engineers were brought over and the somerset levels did not flood excessively because of the drains that were put in. and then the environment agency, as part of this green obsession, stopped dredging and then it flooded. low and behold . what flooded. low and behold. what would you expect? >> well, let me give you another one. if you think that dredging is the answer, maybe it's a pious answer. that's fair enough. been raining enough. but it's been raining heavily people are heavily and people are complaining. are losing complaining. farmers are losing their crops. farmers can't get out livestock. out into the livestock. but let's a little bit let's just go a little bit broader that . we shouldn't broader than that. we shouldn't just ourselves as just look at ourselves as an island the of the island in the middle of the atlantic, or on the edge of the atlantic. should atlantic. we should look globally what's going sea globally at what's going on. sea temperatures their temperatures are at their highest particularly highest level ever, particularly the particularly the atlantic, not particularly like, let me make the point, particularly the atlantic ,

particularly the atlantic, global temperatures, global air temperatures rising year on year for the last eight, nine years in a row. and the world has not seen the world house. >> the world hasn't ended, and we're only 1% of emissions. but what we do makes no difference. we're only 1% of emissions. but waou ve do makes no difference. we're only 1% of emissions. but waou and) makes no difference. we're only 1% of emissions. but waou and imakes no difference. we're only 1% of emissions. but waou and i stopes no difference. we're only 1% of emissions. but waou and i stop breathing,ence. we're only 1% of emissions. but waou and i stop breathing, it ce. if you and i stop breathing, it wouldn't blind bit of wouldn't make a blind bit of difference emissions difference to global emissions because shut down whole because we shut down the whole uk wouldn't uk economy. it wouldn't help. >> it's not case of turning a >> it's not a case of turning a switch and it happens switch and it all happens tomorrow. we all know that. we know sense to say know it's common sense to say it's to the it's going to take the transition. slow. transition. we're slow. >> is doing it. >> nobody else is doing it. >> nobody else is doing it. >> they are. >> but they are. >> but they are. >> they are. the european >> but they are. the european union but the united union is. but but the united states isn't. >> if we're talking about economy grown . economy has grown. >> china isn't. india isn't. china is growing. >> india is. they're >> china is. india is. they're trying. even though they put emissions out more than we do, they their and they do their emissions and their emissions growing and their emissions are growing and their emissions are growing and their is growing and their economy is growing and their economy is growing and their people are getting richer. >> standard of living >> i want the standard of living for to rise. for my constituents to rise. >> you believe that that man >> do you believe that that man made climate exists? made climate change exists? >> what i'm talking >> that's what i'm talking about, is how you respond to it. not i'm not trying to argue about whether it exists or not.

that's different. that's completely different. question. point to be made is >> well, the point to be made is it's because it's linked to it's not because it's linked to fossil i'm saying there's it's not because it's linked to fospoint i'm saying there's it's not because it's linked to fospoint in i'm saying there's it's not because it's linked to fospoint in doing aying there's it's not because it's linked to fospoint in doing anythingre's it's not because it's linked to fospoint in doing anything about no point in doing anything about it the rest of the world isn't. >> and we're just making the british people and having british people poor and having no effect. >> is now conservative >> is this now conservative party >> is this now conservative parthat's what i'm advocating . >> that's what i'm advocating. >> that's what i'm advocating. >> i want is >> i want locating i want my is that mr sunak is? that what mr sunak is? >> i'm glad to say he has rolled back on the commitment to get rid of petrol cars. i want petrol cars. i want my constituents to be free to decide their what decide on their choice, what type of they buy. type of car they buy. >> there is still a choice going forward. to you, it's forward. as i said to you, it's an not a revolution. an evolution, not a revolution. we can't revolutionise simply because haven't the because we haven't got the infrastructure there but infrastructure there yet. but you in by in ten years you will find in by in ten years time you will find that gas power , for example, as power stations, for example, as you've of you've mentioned, the use of those will be down to around about 10. the rest will be coming from renewables. >> use them as long as they're the cheapest energy. the cheapest form of energy. they be market they should be a market solution. shouldn't have solution. you shouldn't have these costs. $0.44 to these huge extra costs. $0.44 to these huge extra costs. $0.44 to the uk for a kilowatt hour against $0.08 in china. how can

we ever compete? >> point in moving in that direction is to stop and mitigate climate change, which will be. and if you don't think we're not going to do it, you need you need to look at some of the stuff that i look at. >> we're just not going to do it well. >> so you're giving up is that well. >> answer?! giving up is that well. >> answer? let's1g up is that well. >> answer? let's thep is that well. >> answer? let's the restthat well. >> answer? let's the rest of it the answer? let's the rest of the answer? let's the rest of the world party dressed up the world tea party dressed up praying to god, is it? >> rest of the world isn't >> the rest of the world isn't doing 1. what we do doing it? we are 1. what we do makes not a blind bit of difference. so if it were difference. so even if it were possible to do what you're saying, do it saying, we're not going to do it on own. why should my on our own. why should my constituents be? they should do. hold let me finish. it hold on. let me finish. it should why my should be. why should my constituents be made poor for something improve world? >> they're going a lot >> they're going to be a lot poorer when they're in water and not going to be up their arms. when you see when you see extreme temperatures that we've seen the last couple seen in the last couple of years, scaremongering. no. >> tell you what, more >> i'll tell you what, more deaths cold, as even deaths come from cold, as even the united nations says, the united nations body says, from from heat. from cold and from heat. >> tell you what >> let me tell you what scaremongering is that? that >> let me tell you what scare blackout.] is that? that >> let me tell you what scare blackout. okay at? that >> let me tell you what scare blackout. okay how hat >> let me tell you what scare blackout. okay how many word blackout. okay how many blackouts have we had in the

last 40 years? >> when i was briefly secretary of state for energy, i was very worried about blackouts. if we hadnt worried about blackouts. if we hadn't with a hadn't been lucky with a very mild have had mild winter, we could have had blackouts in 20 2223, governed by weather. by the weather. >> that's absolutely the case. we are governed by the weather, but seen any. that but we haven't seen any. that word inserted simply as word has been inserted simply as a to say, you've a scare tactic to say, you've got to roll back from this, because otherwise you're going to be in blackouts, you're going to be in blackouts, you're going to trouble, and you're to be in blackouts, you're going to to trouble, and you're to be in blackouts, you're going to to berble, and you're to be in blackouts, you're going to to be poorer. d you're going to be poorer. >> worried about blackouts >> so worried about blackouts that it's trying persuade that it's trying to persuade people metres, people to have smart metres, so they switch their they get asked to switch their equipment us equipment off to stop us blacking our blacking out. we're at our lowest electricity blacking out. we're at our lowes1974, electricity blacking out. we're at our lowes1974, when electricity blacking out. we're at our lowes1974, when we tricity blacking out. we're at our lowes1974, when we trici have that. >> so what we have to do is produce more energy. i think under under , under, under pm under under, under, under pm truss, we be coal truss, we should be using coal as we were you not in as well. we were you not in favour of more offshore wind farms, was that the case? i think i'm happy with more, but i'm also in favour of fracking. >> from that i want, i want fracking to get cheap sources of domestic gas. >> that's a slightly different issue. >> i want it's got i want to make my constituents better off and standard

and raise their standard of living. want make living. i don't want to make them they've in them unless they've got that in their back garden, which they won't with. they'd get their back garden, which they wlot: with. they'd get their back garden, which they wlot of with. they'd get their back garden, which they wlot of money with. they'd get their back garden, which they wlot of money from they'd get their back garden, which they wlot of money from it.|ey'd get their back garden, which they wlot of money from it. thanket a lot of money from it. thank you jim, illegal you very much, jim, illegal migrants falsely converting migrants are falsely converting to christianity, making a mockery system . mockery of our asylum system. after the we'll be after the break, we'll be assessing asylum system assessing how our asylum system can whether someone can determine whether someone isn't truth. plus, isn't telling the truth. plus, it surprise you hear that it may surprise you to hear that my late father held the rolling stones prison time

welcome back. well, as you may remember , we've been talking remember, we've been talking about net zero and gas power stations. and you've been sending in trenchant views. steve says jacob, net zero will bankrupt this country. immediate hold on future ridiculous net zero initiatives would win a huge number of tory votes. well, i agree with that. and heidi says with the wonderful sunny weather that somerset enjoys year round , now is the time for

year round, now is the time for somerset to step up to the table and save the nation . cover it in and save the nation. cover it in solar panels, heidi, that's a great thought and i'm glad you're listening to my weather forecast with such attention . so forecast with such attention. so an seeker whistleblower an asylum seeker whistleblower has to the daily express has spoken to the daily express revealing how migrants have been converting to christianity as a means of having their applications granted . he applications granted. he explained that migrants have been faking conversions by retrieving papers at churches and then simply not returning, and then simply not returning, and that there are also cases of people pretending to be homosexual transgender. people pretending to be homosexual transgender . while homosexual or transgender. while it easy to dismiss these it may be easy to dismiss these individuals bad apples, individuals as a few bad apples, there are serious consequences to phenomenon . both the to this phenomenon. both the clapham chemical attacker and the hospital bomber the liverpool hospital bomber were supposedly converts to christianity today . the home christianity today. the home affairs select committee sat to assess the phenomenon, but the question is how can our asylum system know when someone is lying ? jerry happens to be the lying? jerry happens to be the feast of saint gregory the great is a good day to be talking about conversions to christianity ? yes. how do you

christianity? yes. how do you tell whether people are telling the truth? you're a barrister of years experience. you years experience. when you talk to somebody, can you tell is there an instinctive way? >> absolutely. if there are politicians, if their lips move . politicians, if their lips move. yeah, yeah. you, you you can never really tell. you just look at the evidence. but i was prosecuting these cases ten years ago. there's nothing new in any , is it? in any, is it? >> just the numbers have gone up.and >> just the numbers have gone up. and with large number of up. and with the large number of small the numbers using small boats, the numbers using human rights law, saying they're converting and then saying they're up. they're at risk has gone up. >> yeah. the worst thing i think i don't think it's too much to do that. i think it's do with that. i think it's dishonest people. are dishonest people. these are clergymen. people who clergymen. these are people who believe they're the representatives of god, but they're the that of god, but they're the that of god, but they're the that of god, but they're the representatives of mammon . they want to earn money mammon. they want to earn money out other people's misery, out of other people's misery, which is appalling. >> okay, that's a really interesting point, michael. do you think these people who are involved, the who are involved, the vicars who are doing conversions, are doing doing the conversions, are doing it or it because it for cash or doing it because they're naive? my guess is they're naive? and my guess is that naive rather than that they're naive rather than

that they're naive rather than that corrupt. but i be. >> well, i'll come on to that in a minute. >> yeah. okay. >> yeah. okay. >> i ask you a more topical question? >> you can try if it's relevant to the subject. >> fred hester should, should, should do think the should should. do you think the conservative return conservative party should return its donation to fred easter? >> when do you that, mr >> when do you think that, mr hester, you racist. hester, when you racist. michael, when your own michael, when you get your own program, ask the program, you can ask the questions time being, program, you can ask the quesviewers, time being, program, you can ask the quesviewers, the time being, program, you can ask the quesviewers, the time being your viewers, the time being michael, michael's . michael, michael, michael's. michael, michael, michael's. michael, here to discuss michael, michael, michael's. mic subjects here to discuss michael, michael, michael's. mic subjects underere to discuss michael, michael, michael's. mic subjects under discussion. ss the subjects under discussion. thank much. it's what thank you very much. it's what you're let's stick to you're paid for. let's stick to what and if you get what we're doing. and if you get your program, people want to your own program, people want to know get your own program your own program, people want to kn0\invite, get your own program your own program, people want to kn0\invite, invite 'our own program your own program, people want to kn0\invite, invite 'our oerhat'sam and invite, invite me on. that's and invite, invite me on. that's a matter. we're here a different matter. we're here to issue, but i can to discuss this issue, but i can ask jerry dodgy because we're talking about dodgy vicars. jerry, please. jerry, carry on please. >> well vicars, i >> yes, well dodgy vicars, i mean, again, i said this mean, i again, i said this a moment ago. i was prosecuting these people years ago. there is nothing new in any of this. and it's not naivete. some well, obviously in some cases it is. but by and large it is a business that is appalling . business that is appalling. >> how do you stop it? i mean, is it is it a problem with the

human rights act or is it an issue? >> oh, it's honesty, it's honesty. >> we always have people trying to use a system. yes and find loopholes within it. so as a lawyer, how do you devise a system that minimises the loopholes? >> well, in the same way that we devise a system or have a system of criminal law, we look at the evidence . were there people evidence. were there people there who were deliberately actors , pretending to be part of actors, pretending to be part of actors, pretending to be part of a ceremony which didn't really exist? were there photographs? and the other thing with photographs, we're saying, oh, hallelujah , that sort of thing. hallelujah, that sort of thing. >> i mean, when you were last an mp, there was a very good system of the primary purpose rule of making sure that people who got married were really married. >> yes. >> yes. >> but and that quite effective. >> yes. >> yes. >> you emm- eam— >> but you have to rely on people. have to rely. people. you have to rely. >> have to rely on trust. >> you have to rely on trust. you to do that. and then you have to do that. and then you have to rely on judgements. yes, you we can't. >> we've got we've got a clip.

you can't. there is a clip we've got, we can go to matthew firth before the select committee earlier today. it was interesting see he had interesting to see what he had to because he's the whistleblower. >> i honoured the baptisms that were baptism requests were all the baptism requests that already in system . that were already in the system. but then you a pattern and but then you spot a pattern and then think, hang there's then you think, hang on, there's something going here. and something going on here. and then try to press a then you, you try to press a pause button, which is to make sure that people are requested to come to church and start getting involved and attending church regularly, events and so on.and church regularly, events and so on. and that was the thing that kind of made the numbers fall off a cliff in a sense, because those people kind of melted away, really . away, really. >> people just melting away. people disappear. yeah. having come over and said they converted, but then they're here, they're british and the system doesn't catch up with them. so it's almost back to another occasion where the home office just isn't able to keep control immigration control of our immigration system purpose. system fit for purpose. >> said years ago >> that was said years ago by john reed. then most john reed. and then the most recent who was in charge of recent chap who was in charge of

migration, he said, you know, it takes well, it dates back well before john reed, that the home office wasn't up to the job. i mean, i remember in the 1980s suggesting when i was at channel 4 should be doing an 4 news, we should be doing an investigation why the home investigation into why the home office badly. why doesn't it? >> you've got the problem. you've here is look, i mean, you've got here is look, i mean, you're, you're a very you're, you know, you're a very committed christian. >> that there are, you >> you know, that there are, you know, parts the know, horrible parts of the world where christians are persecuted faith and persecuted for their faith and sometimes murdered or , or all sometimes murdered or, or all sorts of terrible things for them. and the same is true with gay people, and if you if you were involved in making a decision , somebody was sent back decision, somebody was sent back and something terrible happened to them, you would feel dreadful. >> and people like jim shannon and fiona, bruce reynolds in parliament regularly issues from nick gibb to and from china and from pakistan of christians who are really seriously persecuted , are really seriously persecuted, andifs are really seriously persecuted, and it's very difficult. i mean, it's a line of elizabeth first

not liking to make windows into men's hearts. you don't really ever know whether conversion is genuine or is to tick a box. >> and of course, you welcome converts. of course we do. >> i mean, the christianity. >> i mean, the christianity. >> some of these people will be genuine and, i don't know genuine and, i just don't know what is. but i mean , what the answer is. but i mean, i it does concern me. you can smell a scam. and that vicar smelt a scam. yes >> and felt that other vicars were smelling it and going along with it. exactly yeah. and he's been brave to. >> very brave. >> very brave. >> i mean, they've just been giving the benefit of the doubt, i is what's been happening. >> they may scams to . yes. >> they may smell scams to. yes. they feel that in that they have to give the benefit of the doubt in case, you know, something terrible does happen to these people. if they then get sent back to their home countries. >> excellent. well, thank you very much. my panel coming up, british prisons full, and it british prisons are full, and it means criminals are being let out streets. i will be out onto our streets. i will be revealing a simple solution to free up space, we'll be free up space, and we'll be

discussing the extent of britain's crisis

well, thank you for staying with us. we've been talking about false migrant conversions. have you been sending in your views? colin says our borderless country is open to everything thatis country is open to everything that is bringing it down. when even its religion is betrayed by our clergy. and natasha says, i hope you don't mind me saying. but nobody christian would deny jesus died on the cross. but in all honesty, it shouldn't be involved an asylum involved in an asylum application. though, more application. now though, more importantly, no christian would deny jesus rose again on deny that jesus rose again on the third day. even non—christians happy to non—christians are happy to accept that died on the accept that he died on the cross. the resurrection cross. it's the resurrection thatis cross. it's the resurrection that is fundamental. it's no secret prisons are secret that british prisons are full, with a recent study suggesting english and welsh prisons are at 99% capacity, and today's news merely confirms this. the lord chancellor, alex chalk, announced burglars and

shoplifters will be released from prison up to 60 days early. and while this doesn't include category a prisoners such as those were guilty of violent or sexual crimes, the policy undermines the justice process. if government needs space in if the government needs space in our prisons, the answer is simple and something i thought the planning the government was planning to do foreign criminals. do deport the foreign criminals. nearly 12% of people in prison are foreign, making up 10,000 of are foreign, making up 10,000 of a total of 85,000, with the average cost per prisoner at about £48,000 a year. this means the british taxpayer is paying nearly half £1 billion a year on these individuals. nearly half £1 billion a year on these individuals . surely these individuals. surely there's no simpler way of freeing up space than by deporting those people and permanently banning them from entering the uk , which we can do entering the uk, which we can do now. we've left the eu in the old days we couldn't ban eu nationals, they could come back. michael 10,000 spare spaces would be a great benefit . would be a great benefit. >> yeah, i think i think this is the right thing to do . i don't the right thing to do. i don't say that with any great enthusiasm because people, they were sentenced to a certain time

and they knew what they were getting. and if everybody thinks, well, it's going to be, you days shorter, in you know, x days shorter, in reality, that the prison reality, that means the prison is of a deterrent. on the is less of a deterrent. on the other hand, you've got the benefit. if in prison benefit. if they're in prison for bit less time, they've got for a bit less time, they've got a less chance of learning a bit less chance of learning appalling ways of being appalling other ways of being criminals . so and, you know, criminals. so and, you know, there comes a point where all there comes a point where all the prisons are full and all the police cells are full, and then what do you what you do? what do you what do you do? >> yeah, i mean, i suppose that's point. but the one that's the point. but the one thing is and thing that concerns me is and you this again and you must see this again and again, honesty again, the honesty and sentencing people get sentencing that people get sentenced years sentenced to ten years in prison. and don't prison. yeah. and they don't serve anything ten years. serve anything like ten years. and to me to and this always seemed to me to be the public. be misleading the public. >> parliamentarians >> you parliamentarians put this stuff do the stuff forward. you do the sentencing guidelines with the sentencing council , sentencing guidelines council, andifs sentencing guidelines council, and it's very, very sensible. we send people to prison than send more people to prison than the whole equivalent in the whole of equivalent in europe. let's go back to the europe. but let's go back to the thing burglars. let's release them. there is a contempt for people who've been burgled in this country. very often the

police don't turn up at all, and for many people it's almost like a rape of their property, everything has sometimes been destroyed. or there's people who, you know , defecated on the who, you know, defecated on the floor. it's absolutely appalling. people don't turn up. nothing much happens and it feels like a let off. now, there are lots of people in prison who shouldn't be there. drug addicts. let's do more for rehabilitation and things like that. >> a lot of drug addicts commit burglary. yeah, yeah, but let's let's solve well, let's solve the problem. >> let's put them in, rehabilitate station. let's deal with that difficulty, and then they won't be in prison drunks. they shouldn't be imprisoned. they shouldn't be imprisoned. the trouble is that all of these solutions to, you know, all of these alternatives to prison and deaung these alternatives to prison and dealing with drug addicts and so on, and so on. yes on, drug takers and so on. yes are costly. and the department of justice, which administers, stops the problem. well, it it it may do. yeah. but the budget is tighter in this part of

pubuc is tighter in this part of public spending than in most and, and that is another problem. i mean, if, if there was lots of money to invest, you can see all sorts of ways out of this. there's a great myth about sentencing. when i was 12 year old, 12 year old, my grandfather was murdered. was sentenced was murdered. he was sentenced to , do you know how long to death, do you know how long he actually got ? seven years in he actually got? seven years in prison. now the minimum nowadays would be 15 years. and plus. so when people say in the old days , when people say in the old days, the sentences were harsh compared to now , they are compared to now, they are totally, utterly wrong. >> a lot of them have hardly changed. actually, they're broadly the same. you look at the 1930s and now there was less crime in the 1930s. >> i'm not so sure about that. there was less reported crime, well, there seems to have been less crime. >> well, that's an assumption. assumption is the mother and father of all mess ups. >> but but, jerry, think you >> but but, jerry, i think you encapsulate the conundrum. you say, first of all, burglary is a horrible, horrible crime, which it is. and then you say , but

it is. and then you say, but actually prison isn't working because they're drug addicts. and this the political and isn't this the political problem? you want to to problem? you want to respond to the horror of the crime, but what we're currently doing doesn't seem to work . and it's doesn't seem to work. and it's not just whether they're in for an extra two months or not. no, no, not fundamental, jacob. no, it's not fundamental, jacob. >> the >> that's not the problem. the police are going to houses, police are not going to houses, by large, who been by and large, who have been burgled all right. >> joined >> well, we're joined by a former metropolitan police detective bleksley, detective, peter bleksley, peter, much for peter, thank you very much for joining me. jerry's point about not attending burglaries is very important, isn't it? because if you're not catching the burglars in the first place, if you take 60 days off their sentence, it doesn't really matter. >> there far too >> indeed, and there are far too few burglars being arrested and charged. these days because the police are simply not investigating burglaries in a manner that i would like to see them investigating it. and of course, we've got chief constable using deceptive language by saying our officers will attend every burglary .

will attend every burglary. well, there's a huge difference between attending a burglary and investigating a burglary properly, so 88,200 people in our prisons at the weekend? yes. this early release scheme is regrettable. i wish it didn't have to be done, but simply some space has to be freed up for more dangerous offenders who are going through the courts as we speak. going through the courts as we speak . the unfortunate thing is speak. the unfortunate thing is that the government's programme of building extra prisons, which really got into gear in 2020, has been frustrated by planning application issues and the suchlike and all those extra prisons that were due to come on stream next year , are probably stream next year, are probably going to be delayed until 2027 or thereabouts, but really, they cannot lay those bricks and put the bars in the windows quick enough , fast enough. enough, fast enough. >> and tell me, how did you investigate burglaries when you were doing it, to make sure that people got caught and got prosecuted and to prison ?

prosecuted and went to prison? >> well, every burglary was attended and the scene was properly researched and investigated together with what investigated together with what in those days were called a scenes of crimes officer, now people are more familiar with c51 people are more familiar with csiand people are more familiar with cs1 and such like that sort of csi and such like that sort of terminology. but of course , not terminology. but of course, not only did we go to the scene of the burglary , but we knocked the burglary, but we knocked next door and we went to the neighbours on the other side of the house as well. and perhaps if we had the opportunity to neighbours over the road and on more than one occasion people would say to me, do you know that's funny? only last night i was in the garden and i found a glove and it's not mine . and glove and it's not mine. and then all of a sudden you get the evidence back called the sock, go in, and perhaps you're going to start getting a really good trail of evidence to catch people. those who are responsible. burglary is difficult. detection rates have never been very, very high, but they were higher in the days of operation bumblebee and the

simple fact is, if you don't investigate it, you'll never know whether it was easy to solve or not. and this is a question of policing priorities, isn't it? >> because there are as many police as there ever have been. but clearly this isn't the focus . and could be because from . and it could be because from what saying, if you're what you're saying, if you're diligent it, you do get diligent about it, you do get the clues. you get the the clues. you do get the prisoners. the burglars. >> you're you have a far greater chance of arresting people. certainly. yeah senior police officers have told us in recent weeks and months that they will attend or certain officers have, but as you quite correctly point out, it is not a priority . and out, it is not a priority. and in policing, there's that old saying that when everything's a priority, nothing's a priority. chief constable peter, a quick question. >> no, we must move on, unfortunately. but thank you. thank you. peter, a really interesting. i hope you'll come back on again, but there are more concerns about britain's unemployment crisis, which have ansen unemployment crisis, which have arisen amid new figures. a arisen amid new job figures. a shocking 9.2 million people of working age in britain are

economically inactive, 700,000 more than pre—pandemic numbers , more than pre—pandemic numbers, or 6% of the population. more troubling is our welfare system is encouraging people not to look for work roughly a fifth of working age adults, in fact . and working age adults, in fact. and i said a quarter when i was talking to nigel, it's a fifth. so sorry for that. the most prominent cause for this has been cited as long time sickness, with, bizarrely, people early 40s more people in their early 40s more likely to be suffering from long time than those in time sickness than those in their 40s. must be time for an overhaul welfare system overhaul of the welfare system so that employment is properly incentivised . so my panel is incentivised. so my panel is still with me. michael this is a real problem, isn't it, that this bout of extreme , illness this bout of extreme, illness thatis this bout of extreme, illness that is taking so many people out of the workforce , how do you out of the workforce, how do you help people get back to well enough health? because one of the things about unemployment , the things about unemployment, it is particularly in men, it creates mental health problems . creates mental health problems. and a lot of the reason for being off work is mental health rather than physical health.

>> well, i mean, it's a i don't know what the answer is, but and by said people by the way, you said people in there, meant in their there, you meant people in their 20s rather people in their 20s rather than people in their 40s. said and 40s. you said 40s. and i'm sorry. yeah. mean, people in sorry. yeah. i mean, people in their are you know, a huge their 20s. are you know, a huge numbers i think the numbers of work. and i think the problem is arising with people in their teens and schools are experiencing huge amounts of mental health. mental mental health problems, anxiety problems , and that is carrying problems, and that is carrying on, into their 20s. and i mean, goodness knows what the reasons for this is. and, and if we and i think the pandemic didn't help. yeah. and all sorts of other bad news around the world, i think young people, for example, are incredibly worried about, global warming, the, the nuclear proliferation, what's going on in, in europe, all of those issues, which we didn't have in those quite, quite those we had nuclear war. well well you did, you were a bit older, but i mean, it. well, it was less, less of a possibility, i

think still around when i was child. >> all right. >> all right. >> well, that won't stop me from working. but the other issues too. yeah. and but i think that's only part of it. but are we diagnosing? >> do you think. >> do you think. >> i don't think we're over diagnosing. i mean, there are all problems with all sorts of problems with mental with young people, mental health with young people, and have been. i and they always have been. i remember, gosh, haven't been remember, gosh, i haven't been an for over 27 years, but i an mp for over 27 years, but i can remember the 80s 90s. if can remember the 80s and 90s. if you a child and i'm talking you had a child and i'm talking about someone, usually a teenager under 16, who had potential mental health problems, they wouldn't be seen by a psychiatrist or be assessed for their school, membership , for their school, membership, you know, for 18 months. and it's the same nothing . no, it's the same nothing. no, nothing has changed. but i know what you're saying that, you know, are people doing the thing we used to call yuppie flu? do you remember dyslexia and things like that? i i don't think that's right. but of course, what you didn't mention in your introduction is that if you have health problems, you don't have

to actually go for work . that is to actually go for work. that is the incentive. >> i mean, it has to some extent , mental health become the bad back of the 80s that people who don't want to work say they've got mental health problems. well possibly. >> and of course, we're back to the issue before actually , if the issue before actually, if people tell you something, you can't as as we used to be backs didn't it. bad backs. yes, exactly. and if they tell you that they've converted to christianity in the issue we were discussing before. how were discussing before. now how you mental health, or you prove mental health, or disprove mental health is a terrible problem . and of course, terrible problem. and of course, there's the other problem you've got, which is that sometimes people are waiting or often they're waiting and they're waiting months and months and months before they can ever see a specialist. >> then that is that is certainly, a problem. certainly, certainly a problem. >> there's cost >> there's a there's a cost implication there too. all implication there too. so all of these end being these things end up being related. people, you to be related. people, thank you to be encouraged. to work. encouraged. back to work. >> well thank you >> work indeed. well thank you very much to my panel. coming up, i'll be discussing one of my

late father's greatest legacies helping the rolling helping to save the rolling stones jail . stones from jail. >> on patrick christys tonight, nine till 11 pm, i have the very first tv interview with former church of england priest matthew firth, who's blown the lid off the asylum baptism scandal. >> they did, mention to me the fact that there might be people quote out to get me as a result of giving such evidence is time fast running out for the woke justin welby and after six illegal migrants break into the uk, hiding in a lorry, the company's boss has been fined £66,000. >> they tell their story in an exclusive. don't miss patrick christys tonight nine till 11 pm. be

i >> -- >> well. welcome back. we've been talking about prisons and unemployment, and you've been sending in your mail. mogs. robert says make it law that no legal migrants get to stay in britain they work on britain unless they work on building new or join building new prisons. or join the prove themselves to the army and prove themselves to be protectors of the country. and a brilliant and francesca, a brilliant message francesca. not on message from francesca. not on what we've said immediately, but please show this. it would make my birthday wish true. my birthday wish come true. i wanted to show you my birthday card. my teenage children made for me today. jacob rees—mogg is a favourite in our a firm favourite in our household in bolton. as always, the somerset is

the weather in somerset is absolutely beautiful , while absolutely beautiful, while francesca happy returns of absolutely beautiful, while frarday:a happy returns of absolutely beautiful, while frarday . happy returns of absolutely beautiful, while frarday . saint happy returns of absolutely beautiful, while frarday . saint gregory'sturns of absolutely beautiful, while frarday . saint gregory's days of the day. saint gregory's day back in 1967 when my own late father was the editor of the times newspaper, two young and sprightly pop stars by the names of mick jagger and keith richards were busted by police dunng richards were busted by police during a party in which some illegal, mind altering substances were being taken. the two rockers were subsequently tried and sentenced for drug charges, with both being given sentences that many found to be excessive and politically motivated . and that was until motivated. and that was until the times and the editor of my father published one of its most famous leaders, which took its title from some lines of alexander pope who a alexander pope who breaks a butterfly on a wheel, condemning the draconian sentence handed to mr jagger and arguing that his treatment be the same as treatment should be the same as anyone else's would be under the law . on the article's 50th law. on the article's 50th anniversary. now, sir mick told the newspaper , that editorial the newspaper, that editorial got me out of jail. one day it dropped and the next thing i was out. well, now , after two

out. well, now, after two decades of talks, the saga is set to be created on the big screen, with iconic actor nigel havers touted to play his own father, the late lord havers, a former lord chancellor . but mr former lord chancellor. but mr havers has now said he feels too to old take on the job. with me now is the biographer of the rolling stones, philip norman. philip, thank you so much for coming in. my pleasure, so the film is going to be made about this extraordinary period because it was very important, wasn't it? the sentence was harsh, but that this was supposed to be the summer, summer of love and jagger gets three months in jail for having four pet pills. >> amphetamine based , which were >> amphetamine based, which were legal everywhere else in europe except in this country. at technical offence. even the police in court when he was sentenced were saying this is ridiculous. he should get probation, and he was he was sent he was in brixton jail. keith richard was in wormwood scrubs and keith had got a year, actually, for allowing his house

to be used. and it wasn't. again, there was a lot of lsd on the premises that the police never found it. this was all about pet pills and bits of hash in ashtrays. tiny offences . in ashtrays. tiny offences. >> and they were made an example of weren't they? this really of weren't they? this was really what my father was getting at, because said that they because it was said that they were so influential that therefore they should be severely punished , whereas my severely punished, whereas my father argued that actually we're before law we're all equal before the law and therefore you shouldn't be more punished if are more harshly punished if you are a star. yes. a pop star. yes. >> and in fact, it was courageous because technically the affair was subjudice indeed, and therefore he wasn't supposed to comment on it. and in fact, not only did it get them a very quickly out of jail , but it quickly out of jail, but it actually got their hearing brought forward . they could have brought forward. they could have been waiting on bail until september . been waiting on bail until september. but in fact, been waiting on bail until september . but in fact, the lord september. but in fact, the lord chief justice of england, lord parker , was so struck by the parker, was so struck by the unfairness of this whole thing, this show trial, in fact, that he heard their appeal almost

immediately. and they were they were free. jagger got a conditional discharge for a yeah conditional discharge for a year. keith, his sentence and his conviction were just quashed. >> and how important was this to the rolling stones and what? keith richards had been in prison for a year ? that would prison for a year? that would have been quite a to their have been quite a blow to their performing schedule. >> was going >> i don't think he was going to. yes, it would have to. well, yes, it would have been. thing was it been. the thing was that it wasn't this was not politically motivated. motivated by motivated. it was motivated by the forces of law and order. this a plot this was a result of a plot between m15 and the cia , and the between m15 and the cia, and the cia had sought the help of the british coppers to stop the stones ever going back to america, because they were thought to be such a terrible influence that this influence in america that this the american establishment just wanted to keep them out. that was the whole thing, really. it was. it was the police and it was. it was the police and it was the security services. >> so it was a coordinated effort by security services with our police to try and stop amazing british export going to the united states wasn't thought as an export.

>> it was, you know, it was pop music used be very much a music used to be very much a sort rebel medium. it wasn't sort of rebel medium. it wasn't like they were all like today when they were all national and getting national treasures and getting knighthoods. this music knighthoods. yes. and this music was thought to be aberration was thought to be an aberration that to be over in a that was going to be over in a couple of weeks, not a couple of months, possibly, and in fact, they were earning lots of earning lots of money for themselves , of course, also themselves, of course, but also a money, you know, they a lot of money, you know, they were was a british were there was a british export. the in particular, were the beatles in particular, were enormously export. the enormously valuable export. the beatles through a period beatles went through a period of notoriety people forget notoriety as well. people forget that it's interesting that the >> and it's interesting that the lord and the lord chief justice and the editor the times, sort editor of the times, both sort of such establishment figures , of such establishment figures, thought that the rights of the individual trumped this sort of social engineering policy that was coming from the united states . states. >> well, yes. i mean, it was a little local judge was little local judge who was playing to gallery in playing to the gallery in chichester assizes. and, you know, he he was proud of the fact he said he made a speech afterwards saying we tried to tie rolling stones down, tie these rolling stones down, but we didn't succeed. we tried to stop them rolling . he was

to stop them rolling. he was enormously pleased with himself and and mick both told me and keith and mick both told me later that the lord chief justice, the most important legal figure in the country, seemed so very nice and reasonable after this horrible little local judge who was called judge block block, a very good name, blockhead. yes, he was a blockhead, a blockhead and if the times hadn't been published , what do you think? published, what do you think? >> it would still have gone to the court of appeal rapidly, or that would have been delayed? >> i think it would. it wasn't only times, only that the sunday times, which linked which was only tenuously linked to times in those to the daily times in those days, had also published the same piece by their political hugo young, their political correspondent, and there was a general feeling that, you know, this local court had just gone batty. really. even the police, the police agreed the local police agreed with that. the local police agreed with that . and so i think something that. and so i think something would happened. but that would have happened. but that particular, you know, the first leader in the times was extraordinary for the times in those days, perhaps today, those days, perhaps not today, but well, it's but in those days. well, it's one changes in society one of the changes in society that now many

that there are now so many newspapers so on. newspapers and so on. >> but at leader was >> but at times leader was a very powerful , awful, very powerful, awful, journalistic tool in the late 1960s. >> it was indeed. and i mean, it was in written in the most sort of sober you know, sober and sort of straight language, but all the more powerful for that. it was not treating them as , you it was not treating them as, you know, as sort of freaks. >> well, i love the fact that when you read it, it says mr jaggen when you read it, it says mr jagger. it's very formal in the approach that the times took. that's right. >> the new york times is still doing that. >> actually, it's rather nice. and only concern at and my father's only concern at the of it was that alexander the end of it was that alexander pope misquoted because pope had been misquoted because the of space, it the for reasons of space, it said, breaks a butterfly on said, who breaks a butterfly on rather than upon a wheel? and my father thought that was most unsatisfactory. >> well, he was he was famously punctilious, of course, but also later on granada television, which was also very much behind, you know, the groundswell of opinion against this ridiculous sentencing had a sort of summit

meeting with your father. yes. and also , a couple of clergymen and also, a couple of clergymen and an mp, sir frank. >> yes, we all have come back on and talk about that again. thank you.thank and talk about that again. thank you. thank you very much indeed, philip. and finally and arguably most importantly , a supposed an most importantly, a supposed an alleged creme egg superfan by the name of zara winstanley has claimed to eat 50 creme eggs a month, saying, quote, no amount is enough. and while i admire miss winstanley's penchant , 50in miss winstanley's penchant, 50in a month hardly seems an entry level quantity for a creme egg aficionado. although i never counted my creme egg intake in my youth, and i confess i did once have a youth when i ate more of them than i do now. it would have been well above 50, which amounts to under two a day. not the five a day that i believe nutritionists recommend. a three a day bring the a modest three a day bring the total 90 in a month. so 100 total to 90 in a month. so 100 would be a modest target for anyone really likes these anyone who really likes these famous chocolates. so now a promise you . between now and

promise to you. between now and easter, i will count my daily creme egg intake and report back after we have celebrated the resurrection of our lord and saviour. and i've got one in front of me that i will eat shortly. that's all from me. up next is patrick christys patrick. excellent news patrick. what excellent news have you got for us in a moment? >> yeah , i've got massive >> yeah, i've got massive exclusives you. the biggest exclusives for you. the biggest one is about the vicar who's blowing the lid off. easy for me to say. justin welby's asylum seeker conveyor belt. so make sure that you tune for in that. >> oh, well, that will be extremely exciting . i'm sure extremely exciting. i'm sure everyone will be tuning in. thank you. patrick. that's all coming back after the weather. i'll be on tomorrow at 8:00. i'm jacob rees—mogg. this has been state of the nation and as francesca told us a moment ago, the weather somerset is going francesca told us a moment ago, th

news. >> good evening. here's your latest gb news weather update brought to you by the met office. whilst in the south southeast of the uk , it is southeast of the uk, it is actually going to turn largely dry we into wednesday. dry as we go into wednesday. it's different story towards it's a different story towards the west. that's the north and west. that's because a frontal system because we have a frontal system here eventually to here that is eventually going to start to edge back south eastwards. as we through the eastwards. as we go through the night going to bring night that is going to bring some heavy, persistent rain across scotland. across much of scotland. northern ireland and then later into england and wales. into northern england and wales. as through the hours as we go through the early hours of tomorrow south and of tomorrow further south and east the rest of england east across the rest of england and wales. a picture, but and wales. a drier picture, but and wales. a drier picture, but a cloudy one and a windy story for all. and so temperatures really aren't going to drop much. places staying in much. many places staying in double as we go through double figures as we go through tomorrow itself. then this band of does gradually push its of rain does gradually push its way a little bit further south in doesn't make in eastwards, but doesn't make much progress so going to much progress. so it is going to unger much progress. so it is going to linger bring quite a bit of linger and bring quite a bit of rain northern and rain across northern england and some of wales to a some parts of north wales to a dner some parts of north wales to a drier story further south. the limited bright or sunny spells here, but temperatures rising to

highs of around 15 celsius. windy for most of us, but the strongest winds will be across northwest scotland , where northwest scotland, where there's of gales there's the risk of gales but also sunshine. as we go also some sunshine. as we go into thursday and again staying mostly towards the southeast mostly dry towards the southeast . but elsewhere there will be quite bit of rain around. quite a bit of rain around. outbreaks feeding outbreaks of rain feeding up from southwest many from the southwest across many places, band of more places, with a band of more persistent rain across northern ireland and scotland pushing northwards . showers to come as northwards. showers to come as we through some of we go through friday. some of them be heavy and then them could be heavy and then saturday likely to wet saturday is likely to turn wet again. again soon. again. i'll see you again soon. bye bye. >> looks things heating >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

i >> -- >> it's 11:00. lam >> it's11:00. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb news room. your top story this hour. failed asylum seekers will be paid

£3,000 to move to rwanda under a new voluntary government scheme to clear the migrant backlog. the agreement with rwanda is designed to remove migrants who have no legal right to stay in the uk, but cannot be returned to their home country. new to their home country. the new home plan is separate to home office plan is separate to the stalled deportation scheme, which blocked by legal which has been blocked by legal challenges since june of 2022. the safety of rwanda bill, which is designed to secure the deportation flights, returns to the week , downing the commons next week, downing street has said. comments allegedly made by a tory donor about mp diane abbott were racist and wrong. it comes as the police are understood to have been contacted over frank hester's alleged remarks. the conservative party's biggest donor reportedly said miss abbott made him want to hate all black women and she should be shot. mr hester has now apologised and says he abhors racism. miss abbott , who's now racism. miss abbott, who's now an independent mp, described the comments as frightening and worrying. meanwhile, shadow paymaster general jonathan ashworth says it's staggering that rishi sunak has taken so