opinion is divided and many are absolutely furious. so i'm asking you, is all of this a step in the right direction or not.7 and mps will be getting a pay not.7 and mps will be getting a pay rise, taking their salary to a whopping £91,000 a year? not bad work if you can get it, is it? one of my panellists says this is way too low. the other one says it's way too high. what says you? and halifax is going to impose 70 years old as an age limit on many of their mortgages. what do you think to this? is it a good move? the right one or not? and we've all followed the post office horizon scandal, haven't we? all the subpostmasters for subpostmasters fighting for compensation now, though many of their children seeking their children are seeking compensation for the impact it all had on their childhood. do you support that fight or not? yes, indeed. i look forward to some very robust debates. i can

tell you my panel don't really agree on any of this stuff, and all of that comes up over the next hour. but before we get stuck in, let's cross live for tonight's latest news headlines as. >> good evening. it's 6:01. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. your top story this houn newsroom. your top story this hour. michael gove has named some of the groups to be investigated under a new definition of extremism , which definition of extremism, which she says will mean the government can express more clearly than ever who poses a risk to britain. some of the groups include those who are alleged to have islamist views , alleged to have islamist views, with others described as neo—nazi. today's new extremism definition will be used to assess which groups should be blocked from public funding. but michael gove insists it's not about silencing those with private and peaceful beliefs . private and peaceful beliefs. >> we have to be clear eyed about the threat we face, precise about where that threat comes from and rigorous in defending our democracy. that means holding freedom of

expression, religion and belief when they are threatened, facing down harassment and hate, supporting the communities facing the greatest challenge from extremist activity and ensuring this house and this country are safe, free and united. >> russia has been accused of disrupting the gps signal on the defence secretary's plane en route to poland. the incident occurred as the raf jet flew close to the edge of kaliningrad . gps navigation and internet access was lost for around 30 minutes during the flight, but the pilots have confirmed the aircraft was never at risk. the incident happened as grant shapps visited british troops participating in nato exercises in poland . a review into air in poland. a review into air traffic control issues that caused widespread chaos during last august bank holiday weekend has found some engineers were working from home near 750,000 passengers were disrupted when flights were grounded at uk airports on the 28th of august. it was after national air traffic services suffered a

technical glitch. an interim report found a lack of rehearsal for an incident of its nature and scale, and a significant lack of pre—planning . scotland's lack of pre—planning. scotland's former health secretary has been found to have breached the code of conduct after racking up an £11,000 bill on a parliamentary ipad. mike matheson quit his role in the wake of the scandal over his data roaming charges, which happened during a holiday in morocco . he later said that in morocco. he later said that his teenage sons use the device to watch football . a high court to watch football. a high court judge overseeing a case to determine who invented bitcoin has ruled that it wasn't an australian computer scientist, but doctor craig wright had claimed that he was satoshi nakamoto, which is a pseudonym widely attributed to the cryptocurrency's creator. but a judge ruled today that he created an elaborate false narrative and forged documents terrorising anyone who questioned him. a lawsuit was brought against him by the crypto open patent alliance ,

crypto open patent alliance, which is a non—profit group. a spokesperson called the decision a win for developers and the open source community. mps are getting a pay rise with an inflation busting 5.5% boost, pushing salaries to around £91,000. it means pay will increase by more than £4,700 next year, or almost £400 extra each month. the westminster watchdog says it's in line with an award for senior civil servants , but it's above servants, but it's above inflation, which is just 4. the chief of deliveroo says the effects of high inflation on food are starting to recede after rising costs, or consumers paying after rising costs, or consumers paying more money for fewer orders . will shu says cost of orders. will shu says cost of living increases saw many customers tightening their budgets and forgoing takeaway dinners. he said food inflation was outpacing wages by about 2 to 1, putting a squeeze on spending power. economists expect inflation to fall over the coming months , helped in the coming months, helped in part by lower energy costs , and

part by lower energy costs, and the office for national statistics staff could strike after being asked to work from the office for two days a week. it's understood staff have been allowed to work from home since the start of the covid lockdowns , but they are now being asked to return to the office on some days. to return to the office on some days . some say took their days. some say they took their jobs the understanding that jobs with the understanding that working arrangements were flexible. a spokesperson said the ons had made a hybrid model for several years , and it's for several years, and it's enforcing the rules to balance business and personal needs . and business and personal needs. and the prince of wales has expressed concerns about the amount of time children spend on phones as he visited a youth club today. the prince asked some of the children how long they spend on their phones, with one girl saying she spends up to 15 hours a the future king 15 hours a day. the future king said grown ups were also guilty of excessive time and of excessive screen time and said all got to get better said we've all got to get better at managing it. he also poked fun at his apparent lack of artistic as he took part artistic skills as he took part in a decorating biscuits, in a decorating some biscuits, saying wife is the arty

saying that his wife is the arty one. and for the latest story, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts. now it's back to . michelle. >> thanks for that, sophia and michelle jubin i'm with you till 7:00 tonight. that last story there in that news bulletin, 15 hours a day. i'm sure i just hours a day. i'm sure ijust heard that correctly. how on earth can a child spend that long on a telephone? where are the parents in all of this? the mind absolutely boggles, doesn't it? anyway, i'm with till it? anyway, i'm with you till 7:00 alongside i've 7:00 tonight. alongside me, i've got editor of the sun got the former editor of the sun , mackenzie, and the , kelvin mackenzie, and the broadcaster journalist ella broadcaster and journalist ella whelan. good evening to both of you. i heard you, by the way. kelvin during those bulletins, the the civil the story there about the civil servants saying that they don't want to go to work. it got want to go back to work. it got a bit of chortle from you, a bit of a chortle from you, didn't it? why? >> because we've just seen >> well, because we've just seen that the whole people's holidays

were august . that the whole people's holidays were august. bank were destroyed last august. bank houday were destroyed last august. bank holiday as turned holiday because, as it turned out , the bosses and i blame the out, the bosses and i blame the bosses for this had not rostered on an engineer to be at the headquarters. and so when everything started going wrong and all, all, all the airlines were grounded , literally nobody were grounded, literally nobody andindeed were grounded, literally nobody and indeed some people ended up six days away. they couldn't get back to this country. right was entirely due to the fact that there were no all the engineers were working from home. that cannot, cannot be right. that is a management issue. and there should be a management sacking for that. and the idea that people are now saying that they're to go on strike they're going to go on strike because can't work from because they can't work from home, the real cost home, i understand the real cost issues.i home, i understand the real cost issues. i understand the child cost actually it's cost issues, but actually it's bone actually bone idleness. and actually management a grip on management should get a grip on this . this. >> is bone idle? if you've >> is it bone idle? if you've been hired on contract that been hired on a contract that says you can work from home says that you can work from home or be and then your or be flexible, and then your employee says, actually, no, you've to work, is it you've got to go to work, is it bone idle to then say, no, i'm

not that. no not having that. no >> would legitimate >> that would be a legitimate challenge. have challenge. if these people have been started contracts that, been started on contracts that, you enshrined flexible you know, enshrined flexible working. mean, you know, working. i mean, you know, we all know the of all know that the reality of working from home that working from home is that in times not as times of crisis, it's not as good being together in the good as being together in the office or workshop floor if office or the workshop floor if you're an engineer, i mean how engineers can work from home. i need that explained to me. and because that doesn't seem right. but know what kelvin but there, you know what kelvin said? that he knows about the costs and cost of costs of rail and the cost of childcare. those are childcare. that is, those are issues are very real for issues that are very real for people, particularly in relation to if was to childcare. if that was something that solved by something that was solved by making a bit cheaper and making it a bit cheaper and a bit more accessible, they did making it a bit cheaper and a bit imoreaccessible, they did making it a bit cheaper and a bit more peopleile, they did making it a bit cheaper and a bit more people mightey did making it a bit cheaper and a bit more people mightey diwork say more people might not work from say more people might not work frorthey did say flexible working >> they did say flexible working now, flexible works on both sides five day week. sides is a five day week. flexible in days, flexible is come in three days, be home two or a version of be at home two or a version of that. what these people are saying we are staying at home saying is we are staying at home five days week and if you five days a week and if you don't like it, we're on don't like it, we're going on strike. disgraceful. don't like it, we're going on strike. let'sjraceful. don't like it, we're going on strike. let's see eful. don't like it, we're going on strike. let's see what the >> well, let's see what the outcome that is. how can outcome of that is. how can anyone from home when anyone work from home when they've small children, it's they've got small children, it's incredibly isn't it? incredibly difficult, isn't it? get touch and let me know

get in touch and let me know your though, because your thoughts, though, because there's to there's a lot i want to talk to you about. come on to the you guys about. come on to the extremism story in just a second. also want to talk to second. i also want to talk to you about the new pay rise for the mps you about the new pay rise for the mp5 £91,000, you about the new pay rise for the mps £91,000, is that too much enough much money? not enough money or what? children of these what? and the children of these subpostmaster , do think that subpostmaster, do you think that they compensation for they deserve compensation for they deserve compensation for the of this has had the impacts all of this has had on their lives or not? so i'll be getting into those be getting stuck into those stories 7:00 gb stories and more before 7:00 gb views gb news. com is how you views at gb news. com is how you email me. or you can tweet or text me at gb news. but of course, the main story today we have a have ourselves a new announcement. everybody, relation to what extremism means. let's listen to michael gove explaining it. >> extremism is the promotion or advancement of an ideology based on violence, hatred or intolerance that aims to negate or destroy the fundamental, fundamental rights and freedoms of others or undermine, overturn or replace the uk system of liberal parliamentary democracy and democratic rights, or intentionally create a permissive environment for others achieve these results. others to achieve these results. >> i just want to remind you, in

case not familiar , the case you're not familiar, the previous definition, which was published described published in 2011, described extremism as vocal or active opposition to fundamental british values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and belief, as well as calls for the death of members of our armed forces. well, of course, there's been lots of reaction to this. let's listen to angela rayner when it comes our national security, comes to our national security, when it comes to the threat of radical ization, when it comes to the toxic scourge of islamophobia, neo—nazism, anti semitism or any other corrosive hatred , the whole house can and hatred, the whole house can and should work together. i can tell you now, right? all of this really has divided opinion. at some point i'll play it as well. george galloway, i'll bring in the responses as well from some of these groups that have been mentioned today. but before i do that, let bring you in.

that, let me bring you in. kelvin, where are you it? kelvin, where are you on it? >> well, the truth about the matter is that this is a political event, and it's not something think, which unifies something i think, which unifies the or the country felt the country or the country felt very strongly about . i the country or the country felt very strongly about. i think the country or the country felt very strongly about . i think the very strongly about. i think the issue is the war in in the middle east has divided , two of middle east has divided, two of our, you know, planks of religion in our country, one represented by 4 million people and the other represented by 250,000 in our country. and the politicians have decided, i think , unreasonably and think, unreasonably and ridiculously, to get involved in a definition of extremism rather than actually doing the one thing which this country would like to see, which is deal with the economy. so i think it's personally, i think it's a waste of time. >> i'm going to get the definition up on screen as definition up on the screen as well, in case you want to well, just in case you want to be reminded, you can browse that at leisure, but it's at your leisure, but it's exactly as michael gove just described. where are you described. ella, where are you on i don't think that. on it, i don't think that. i think this is big mistake. think this is a big mistake. i think this is a big mistake. i

think fact, actually, think that in fact, actually, even though has sort of even though gove has sort of tried couch this caveat it tried to couch this or caveat it by well, it's only by saying, well, it's only really about what sponsorship government groups government gives to groups and sort of tried to define sort of almost tried to define it a sort of technical it as a sort of technical technocratic issue around what the does. it will the civil service does. it will have chilling effect on have a chilling effect on freedom of speech. the new definition around extremism, even though it doesn't bring in sort of criminal offences , sort of new criminal offences, will mean that, discussion about, you know, phrases like, our democratic system, you know, dissent from that will could be you could see a situation which people got into trouble for criticising, criticising our democratic system. i've got a lot of problems with our democratic system . i think most democratic system. i think most people can understand the difference between isis , hamas, difference between isis, hamas, which doesn't have issues with our system. it's a our democratic system. it's a death cult that wants to kill a lot of us, to put it, frankly, and those of us who might want to see, i don't know, a completely different political system in the uk. it's you know, the government's answer to the issue of skyrocketing cases of

anti—semitism. a big issue around islamism is to try and crack down on freedom of speech, to try and narrow the realm of pubuc to try and narrow the realm of public debate. and i think that's a really big problem. it's also a problem that, you know, angela rayner there, in response to michael gove , listed response to michael gove, listed off the problems with off all the problems with extremism and radicalisation and didn't say islamism. she said she said islamophobia, neo—nazism , which neo—nazism is neo—nazism, which neo—nazism is a bad thing? but it's not exactly a massive problem in this country. you know , i'm not this country. you know, i'm not saying they don't exist, but they're certainly not in the same , you know, category as, for same, you know, category as, for example, anti—semitism. but she didn't mention islamism, which is the, you know, the pretty much the number one threat at the moment. it's the threat that many of her own mps within her own party are facing. >> so why do you why do you think she didn't mention it then? >> because there is this sort of unwillingness to have an open discussion issue that discussion about the issue that we face, is that there is we face, which is that there is a problem with, know, small

a problem with, you know, small groups, of islamists within the muslim who are being muslim community who are being given both by people given a free pass both by people within community. also within that community. but also by sort latte clutching by the sort of latte clutching protesters , white middle class protesters, white middle class protesters, white middle class protesters, on these pro—palestine things that shout things like yemen, yemen, make us proud, turn another ship around. you know, there's apologism for islamism and anti—semitism , and there's, you anti—semitism, and there's, you know, the because they're terrified of being called islamophobic. they don't want to go there. what you want is someone to come along, a politician or someone else to come along and say, the solution to this is solidarity with jews against anti—semitism. and to tackle properly, tackle that problem properly, but also to engage in this discussion, ask the question discussion, to ask the question you just asked, why is this happening? what is it that people are not understanding about and tolerant, about a free and tolerant, tolerant society? have tolerant society? let's have those than just those debates rather than just trying everyone jail trying to put everyone in jail as an extremist. seems like as an extremist. it seems like such cackhanded kind of way to such a cackhanded kind of way to deal with this. >> yeah, in parliament today , >> yeah, so in parliament today, michael gove, he actually mentioned a collection of groups

. he used basically what they called parliamentary privilege, which that you which basically means that you can't essentially. so can't get sued essentially. so he that privilege he used that privilege to mention five groups, three of which, he would say are basically under the kind of basically fall under the kind of islamist, branch, two of which he would describe as falling under far right, potential under the far right, potential branch. now, what he's saying is he's mentioned these organisations , but he's not organisations, but he's not saying they necessarily saying that they necessarily will under this, will fall under this, description that is yet to be assessed. we're going to have a list in a couple of weeks, i think maybe three weeks or so, where we get all of these different lists. but notwithstanding i tell notwithstanding that, i can tell you these lists, some of you some of these lists, some of these that have been these groups that have been named in parliament, named today in parliament, they certainly happy they've certainly are not happy they've been this, so, been responding to this, so, for example, tell you now, example, i can tell you now, mend this is one of the groups they said that this is a blatant attack on civil liberties. the muslim association of britain, said it was a blatant effort to stifle dissenting voices. cage said it would challenge the government's deep dive into authoritarianism and the patriotic alternatives. said it

was a dangerous step towards a totalitarian state. see, i find it quite interesting. and i was listening to a lady from one of these groups. she was giving an interview somewhere else earlier on today, and she was saying this whole notion that michael gove is talking about about islamism and islamist , she was islamism and islamist, she was essentially saying it's almost like a like a made up word to try and fit the narrative that people are trying to push. and she was basically saying it was very discriminatory towards all muslims. do you agree with that sentiment? >> well , i sentiment? >> well, i think one one of one of the problems i have with all this is if they are extremist and they're dangerous , surely it and they're dangerous, surely it doesn't take a law to find these things out. surely if they are doing something which is dangerous to our nation, they should be arrested under the million and one laws. we've got to protect our country. so why is it if cage are a problem or

mend are a problem, why haven't we acted against them already? well, they. and the reason i suspect we haven't is because either they're very cunning or very clever or they're not doing anything currently, which you can be arrested for. and just to describe somebody as an extreme list, honestly, if you walk around london, any day, you're likely to bump into extremists all the time. well, so he hasn't proscribed these groups as extremists. >> so what he's saying is, is mentioned them in this parliamentary privilege. there's going to be this investigation into those and wider it's into those groups and wider it's not going to there , not just going to stop there, and we shall see. some of these groups actually they groups have actually said they want to mention want michael gove to mention them parliament, so them outside of parliament, so that can start legal that then they can start legal action him. they're action against him. they're completely notion completely reject this notion that they are extremist. one of the things that people have pushed back on is this whole kind of almost like slippage and expansion, sino miriam cates, for example, she was raising concerns then. well, today you're about islamists you're talking about islamists and neo—nazis. what's going to

stop you tomorrow? speaking about gender critical people, i.e. people that believe that you can't change your biological sex? >> yeah . the broad, woolly >> yeah. the broad, woolly language that is used around this is open to all kinds of abuses. this is open to all kinds of abuses . i mean, today, you might abuses. i mean, today, you might say this is used for the noble cause of fighting against anti—semitism or for doing something about islamism. and, you know, i think all of us feel the desire to try and, you know, do something to stop the kind of open naqui jew hatred that's been prevalent on uk streets and, and the sort of, you know, you feel sick watching people wear pro—hamas headgear and badges on these marches when you know what hamas has done, on the 7th of october, you feel like you want to do something. but the government's approach is to use the kind of language like, you know, michael gove in his, broadcasts this morning and in parliament talked about the idea of hatred. and anyone who is inches of hatred. and anyone who is incites hatred. i mean, what

does that mean? you could you could see someone coming along for example, in the gender critical or gender wars and say , critical or gender wars and say, well, this person, by saying that a woman is a woman and a man is a man, is inciting hatred against me as a trans person. and boom, got a case for and boom, you've got a case for extremism. it'sjust it's a extremism. it's just a it's a i think it's a really crass way of deaung think it's a really crass way of dealing with some very deep and important problems. dealing with some very deep and imfso ant problems. dealing with some very deep and imfso the problems. dealing with some very deep and imfso the questionroblems. dealing with some very deep and imfso the questionrchave s. dealing with some very deep and imfso the questionrchave is, >> so the question i have is, why they bother? why did they why do they bother? why did they bother? anti—semitism actually is illegal, right? and if they if you could actually prove islamophobia and every so often there's court cases on it. yeah. then that's illegal. so why is it they felt right in the middle of an economic milestone of our country. did they feel they need to waste they hate freedom of speech. >> the government's, you know, suspicious of us and our ability to openly debate. and think we to openly debate. and i think we should it. should challenge it. >> well, look at that. is >> well, let's look at that. is that what you think is behind all this? what you all of this? and what do you make kelvin's point there? make to kelvin's point there? why why this? think

why now? why this? do you think it's even going to be effective at all? george galloway of course, he lot to say course, he had a lot to say about this, this afternoon. course, he had a lot to say about look this afternoon. course, he had a lot to say about look thiandternoon. course, he had a lot to say about look thiand more�*n. we'll look at that and more after break. see you in two.

hi there. michelle dewberry. i'm keeping you company till 7:00 tonight. alongside the former editor of the sun , kelvin editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie. and the broadcaster and journalist ella whelan . and journalist ella whelan. welcome back, everybody. we've just been talking about the new definition of what an extremist apparently is in this country. whether or not we need this, is it a step in the right direction or what, frank, can i just ask, please, this whole definition of extremism, will it include hate speech against christians ? speech against christians? hannity shane says they are just so busy tweaking things to make free speech even harder . free speech even harder. according to them, they will never be enough legislation . never be enough legislation. john says this is a pathetic gesture and a complete waste of

time. john says perhaps as our country disintegrates before our very eyes, our wonderful gang of mps could perhaps discuss the definition of useless instead . definition of useless instead. i'd. so i was just mentioning the last time , the definition of the last time, the definition of extremism was put forward was 2011, and i think then it was pretty clear, actually. it was like vocal or active opposition to fundamental british values, including democracy, and it was going on about you had to have mutual respect and tolerance of different beliefs. different faiths and beliefs. this new definition, so many people are saying it stretches. it's overreach now and it infringes on free speech. one of the people that's been speaking out is george galloway. should we what he had to say? we listen to what he had to say? >> it is obviously true that this is part of a culture war wallpaper that's being created for the general election, soon to come . it's not good enough to to come. it's not good enough to say that it doesn't seek to ban or jail say that it doesn't seek to ban

orjail anyone. you try getting or jail anyone. you try getting a bank account once you've been branded by michael gove as an extremist . extremist. >> you see, i find this quite interesting because this new definition, it's not about trying to find stuff that kind of, exceeds criminality. that's not what it's about . it's about, not what it's about. it's about, things that fall, perhaps short of that, threshold, but still would be deemed, quote , would be deemed, quote, unacceptable. and that's what many people are struggling with. yeah >> the government's been quite openin >> the government's been quite open in the way in which it's sort of justified this by saying, look, we had this problem where there are all these people and groups who we couldn't up and we couldn't couldn't lock up and we couldn't do anything or we couldn't do anything with, or we couldn't shun sponsorship because shun for sponsorship because they actually taking they weren't actually taking action. actually action. they weren't actually organising terrorist organisations. weren't they organisations. they weren't they weren't doing anything that crossed the line. and so we've brought this expanded description in so that we can get at them . and that is a get at them. and that is a that's an open and actually quite naked attack on freedom of

freedom of speech. i mean, you know, i don't agree with george galloway on barely anything, but what he is right on is that this will have a chilling effect because you are labelled as because if you are labelled as extremist extremist, adjacent extremist or extremist, adjacent or whatever they're describing it the government, then it it by the government, then it will on your ability to will impinge on your ability to act society. and i think the act in society. and i think the most important this is most important thing for this is not we're all bleeding not that we're all bleeding hearts for, these often quite foul organisations, it's foul organisations, whether it's patriotic alliance or anyone else. it's not that i deeply sympathise with them and wish that they could spout their nonsense more openly. it's that the any clampdown on public debate, one drives this kind of, you in some cases, you know, in some cases, genuinely hateful awful genuinely hateful and awful views it can views underground where it can fester and become more potent. and number two, it stops us from actually changing people's minds the the is a cultural the way the this is a cultural issue that is quite wide reaching. like i said, a lot of those people, there's a mix of those people, there's a mix of those people, there's a mix of those people on those pro—palestine marches, many of whom shocked at what's whom are just shocked at what's happening many of

happening in gaza, but many of whom in support of or whom are either in support of or apologising for pro—hamas sentiment . but one, you can't sentiment. but one, you can't lock all them up. two, you can't call them all extremists. and three, to change those three, we've got to change those people's and get them to people's minds and get them to realise that there is something worth about democracy, worth defending about democracy, tolerance or they've tolerance or, or or if they've crossed the line, arrest them under the plenty of charges that there are already. >> and that's my argument. my argument is we don't need this, and this is just a distraction by a government that is collapsing before our very eyes. well actually, you mentioned the prevent strategy in 2011, michelle. and you know, the thing about prevent and rishi sunak actually, when was it? two weeks ago in his speech, sort of said, one of the things we're going to do is ramp up prevent at universities. we're going to crack down on, you know, people spouting radicalisation and universities in practice, prevent a lot of the time prevent has a lot of the time targeted people who it sees as at risk of radicalisation, which at risk of radicalisation, which a of the time means just a lot of the time means just going after. ordinary muslims often ordinary muslim young men

and harassing them and asking them questions and, and, you know, intervening into their student lives for no reason other than that they are muslim. so it's an extremely blunt instrument which strays into the realm racism. realm of racism. >> entirely true. it >> it's entirely true. is it isn't. about the isn't. the truth about the matter that probably matter is that probably a colleague something been colleague or something has been worried about things that this person been saying, then person has been saying, and then prevent been fired at them. prevent has been fired at them. that's the issue. now, you may be right that you can't, but if you are saying things which perhaps , perhaps threaten the perhaps, perhaps threaten the nation, right? and you're a student and you're hearing this, then you are going to fear that something might happen and therefore you should act. you are asked to act. and if that happened to you at university and you'd heard a colleague talking about blowing something up, the strongest up, or not even the strongest that hoping that that hamas that but hoping that that hamas came through front door came in through the front door or through the channel or something like that. you something like that. then you you act in that way. you might act in that way. >> there's a very big difference between speech and between freedom of speech and expression. i was expression. and when i was i certainly never expressed support hamas. when

support for hamas. but when i was university, we did have was at university, we did have lots of discussions about change the system the political the system in the political system the uk from leftie system in the uk from a leftie point under the point of view, which under the new extremism new sort of extremism definitions about which, you know, seeking protect know, seeking to protect democracy, i am all for to champion democracy. i'm all for. but you don't do that by undermining and attacking democratic include democratic rights, which include freedom of speech and the ability by the way, say you ability to, by the way, say you hate the nation. there's a difference between saying there's in this there's lots of things in this country people hate, that country that people hate, that viewers home thinking, i viewers at home are thinking, i hate this government. hate about this government. there's difference between there's a difference between that to action thing that and taking to action thing that's not kill people is who defines whether you have crossed a line or not. >> if it's words is there going to be a committee that does this and is going to be sitting on there? >> just if you look, there's really you know, a of people really you know, a lot of people are saying the police should get more involved. well, they must, and at what the and if you look at what the metropolitan police recently has done, know, a lot done, it's gone. you know, a lot of say it's been very of people say it's been very soft on the marches, particularly when have particularly when things have boiled just, know,

boiled over into just, you know, outright the outright violence, but at the same you the other same time, you know, the other day was a young man called day there was a young man called niyak ghorbani was holding niyak ghorbani who was holding up is up a sign saying hamas is terrorist counter to . terrorist in sort of counter to. yeah, in counter to a demonstration which, you know, involved some anti—semitic tenants. he was wrestled to the ground and arrested , for stating ground and arrested, for stating what is actually legal fact, but more importantly , which is more importantly, which is something that we need to be going and saying is hamas is hamas not just terrorists, it's an amoral death cult. so i just don't trust the authorities on this. >> i thought it was really interesting that many interesting that so many people said he agitating the said that he was agitating the crowd. i think if you're in crowd. and i think if you're in a crowd and you're agitated by a statement of fact that hamas is a terrorist, you need to a terrorist, then you need to get massive mirror out and you get a massive mirror out and you need look in it and have need to look in it and have a serious word with yourself. >> okay, so i a very good >> okay, so i have a very good friend, henry, who carried friend, wendy henry, who carried a of hostages and a picture of the hostages and was waving an israeli flag in westminster two weeks ago for that big on the wednesday night in that big thing like that. right. and she walked, walked up and the next thing

and down. the next thing that happened there happened to her. and there was literally i don't literally how many, i don't know, protesters there on know, 3000 protesters there on the, on the palestinian the, on the, on the palestinian side, was one it was side, there was one it was wendy. she's walking up and down like what happened her? like that. what happened to her? cops her to one side and cops took her to one side and said, you this up, took said, you packed this up, took the flag off her, took the took the flag off her, took the took the off her and said, the picture off her and said, you up because you're you pack this up because you're agitating agitators, right ? agitating the agitators, right? yeah. it was honestly she is. i literally saw her about a week later. i didn't know anything about it. right. she was beside herself that how on earth could she a problem when there she be a problem when there were, when there were literally thousands on the other side . so thousands on the other side. so i it's unfair on the i think it's unfair on the police , actually. police, actually. >> but the police, the police would say in that instance. oh, we took that lady away for her own safety. that's what they didn't have a problem. >> she was she getting on >> she was she was getting on fine. was getting on fine. i fine. she was getting on fine. i think it's unfair burden on the police to make that decision, to be fair. >> well, this is what a lot of people are coming through in my inbox they're saying inbox and saying. they're saying that moment the police,

that at the moment the police, they police stuff they don't even police stuff properly is, whether properly as it is, whether that's as many you that's burglary, as many of you saying as it is today. saying or laws as it is today. so what the question is, is people saying, how on earth people are saying, how on earth will any of this so—called will any of this be so—called policed? i to say as well policed? i have to say as well that this isn't necessarily about it's about about criminality, it's about something about criminality, it's about sometis1g about criminality, it's about sometis raising a lot of which is raising a lot of eyebrows. and that whole notion in terms of slippage and expansion, you know, today it's all talking about so—called islamist groups or neo—nazi groups or far—right or whatever tomorrow. that whole notion , tomorrow. that whole notion, perhaps, of if you have the audacity, everyone to believe that you can't change biological sex, will it be you next that have got a big fat label of extremism on your door? but what i found most interesting about all of this, and i have to say, none of this extremism stuff announced today, washes with me for simple fact. i fail to for a simple fact. i fail to take it seriously because you can all the definitions in can have all the definitions in the land. you can have all your meetings in land, and you meetings in your land, and you can and do all the tough can stand and do all the tough talking you want, but all talking that you want, but all the while that you have a

teacher in hiding batley teacher in hiding in batley who is then is fearing for his life, then you not combated extremism you have not combated extremism in this country and everything else. for me is just words and thatis else. for me is just words and that is the point. i get stuck at all the time in these conversations. if the government are serious about you can't threaten democracy. you can't be intolerant. you can't celebrate diversity. whatever the sentence is that they want to say that day, if they truly felt that that fella wouldn't be in hiding, i don't know what i would have happen to him, but i would have happen to him, but i would certainly ensure that he is in safety and security, and i would also ensure that he has a way and means of financially supporting his family. >> yeah, and all of that should happen for his personal protection and comfort and of his families. protection and comfort and of his families . but you also have his families. but you also have to say, well, how can you get a situation in which that that doesn't happen at a school again ? because the, you know, the, you know, there was two things that were wrong in that situation in batley grammar. number one, there was the sort

of agitating and threatening from islamist groups, you know, from islamist groups, you know, from the outside at school from the outside at the school gates. and worse was the gates. and almost worse was the cowardice the school to not cowardice of the school to not stand up and say, hang on a minute , our teacher who shows an minute, our teacher who shows an image of the prophet of muhammad or, you know, has a conversation that makes some students feel uncomfortable . well, that's his uncomfortable. well, that's his academic freedom. we support our our staff, and we're going to stand up for his right to be safe. teachers unions. >> yes. whereas the teachers unions. >> but the fact that none of that happened has to make you ask, why is it that we are not in our schools or in other situations, you know, there's been lots of examples of, you know, screenings of films being taken at cineworld because taken down at cineworld because of islamist agitation outside and like that. you have and things like that. you have to ask, why don't we why aren't we able to defend freedom and tolerance and democracy? what are we lacking? need to get are we lacking? we need to get better it. we need to get better at it. we need to get more courageous. we need to get more courageous. we need to get more fervent about it. >> well, people to get >> well, people need to get local by the way, local politician, by the way, who never said word about

who has never said a word about that, on to become, mayor that, went on to become, a mayor elected of, west elected mayor of, west yorkshire. and she had a tracy brabin. yeah. she had a tweet out today announcing in all her glory that they were going to take over the running of the buses in, in that particular area, never once not not once, when she was the local politician for batley , she never politician for batley, she never said a word in defence of that man. she never said a word about the whole thing. we have politicians with no backbones and this man is now living a life and his family under a different name, and we don't even know where he is. >> i just think it's appalling and it undermines you can stand on the steps and you can talk tough, you can do whatever you want. but all the time that that scenario continues and i've noficed scenario continues and i've noticed days, now, many noticed these days, now, many people start rolling their eyes. if audacity to if you have the audacity to mention in batley, if you have the audacity to mentgo, in batley, if you have the audacity to mentgo, oh, in batley, if you have the audacity to mentgo, oh, she in batley, if you have the audacity to mentgo, oh, she goes,in batley, if you have the audacity to mentgo, oh, she goes, there ley, they go, oh, she goes, there they go, oh, she goes, there they go. but actually it's current, it's here, it's present day. think appalling. day. and i think it's appalling.

and to know what he and i'd love to know what he thinks when hears all of this thinks when he hears all of this ridiculousness extremist ridiculousness about extremist definitions. so many of you getting touch one, getting in touch on this one, john says of this is john says all of this is a pathetic gesture and just a waste of time , that sentiment, i waste of time, that sentiment, i can tell you right now, is coming through thick and fast. i want to talk to you after the break about mp salaries. they're going to be earning over £90,000. is that too much or too little? your thoughts? i'll see you in two.

come on. hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me. my panel remained right through till seven. former editor of the sun , seven. former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie. and the broadcaster and journalist ella whelan , we have just been whelan, we have just been getting in touch, getting stuck into that whole conversation about extremism and whether or not necessary. all not it's even necessary. all this stuff and, crucially, will

it blind bit of it make a blind bit of difference ? yes. i've got to difference? yes. i've got to say, coming through really strongly , on this inbox, is that strongly, on this inbox, is that actually you just don't think that it's going to make that much of a difference. you're saying that actually it will all come down why aren't police, come down to why aren't police, etc. policing things? as it currently stands, there's enough rules regulations when it rules and regulations when it comes extremism as it already comes to extremism as it already stands, they're not being stands, but they're not being effectively managed, let talk effectively managed, let me talk to about mps pay to you next about mps pay because, we've had confirmation now it's going to set to rise to more than £91,000. this is after the watchdog there gave them a massive inflation busting 5.5. now, i can tell you now, right. some people say that, you know, whatever you pay them, it needs to be much, much more . other to be much, much more. other people are saying they're getting too much as it getting way too much as it stands. but pay increase stands. but that pay increase translates to about an extra just of £5,000 a year . so just shy of £5,000 a year. so 91,000 just over with the total that they're getting , is that that they're getting, is that good value for money to much to little kelvin?

>> i think i think it's entirely appropriate. and these politicians matches , i mean, politicians matches, i mean, after all, gb news wouldn't exist without them. these politicians do seven day weeks. it is a 52 week, job. you're always you're always on parade. you can't afford to. you can't afford to do almost anything without it being a major news story. i think they make the money. and on the conservative side, as distinct from the socialist side, of course, many of them will be taking pay cuts to come and represent the good people of our nation, whereas on the socialist side, of course, they'll all be, either councillors or trade unionists, in which case it's a hefty great pay in which case it's a hefty great pay rise. which is why why so many socialists want to become mps and are likely to do so in the november general election. >> so what do you think a fair salary for an mp is, then? >> i don't look 91 grand. it's

not too bad. they can hire the messes, they can hire their daughters as agents and representatives. a fair representatives. there's a fair amount of money coming in. but what job you know where what other job do you know where you. you're flogging yourself to death dealing with death and actually dealing with the be enormously the public must be enormously hard work, you're hard work, right? you're flogging death. and hard work, right? you're floggevery death. and hard work, right? you're floggevery years,eath. and hard work, right? you're floggevery years, three and then every five years, three years, boom. out the years, four years, boom. out the door you go. and then nobody but nobody wants to put a an mp on their board. >> hello? oh, no , i don't agree >> hello? oh, no, i don't agree at all. i mean, it's not really the amount , that gets me. i the amount, that gets me. i mean, i don't think most people care about that. it's this justification that if you've justification that if you've just had politicians say to striking nurses, rail workers , striking nurses, rail workers, people who are on a fraction of what they're on, you know, we're all in a recession. times are hard. i'm afraid we can't , you hard. i'm afraid we can't, you know, raise your pay to inflation rates because, you know, there just isn't enough money in the person. we've all got to pull in together and make our sacrifices. and then our own sacrifices. and then this thing happens. it this kind of thing happens. it completely undermines the nonsense there is

nonsense argument that there is some kind of national effort to tackle the economic crisis. so i think i've rightly a lot of people will be quite annoyed by this. you know, the £90,000, wage. i might be okay with if politicians were working for some sense of public good, if there was sense of flogging their guts out for democracy. but particularly, i mean, never mind about the there's no socialists mps out there. if only there were. there might be a little bit of more interesting debate . in of the debate. but in terms of the conservative party from grant shapps to suella braverman to rishi sunak , you can see that rishi sunak, you can see that all of them are looking to the end of their parliamentary career to get the cash cow of career to get on the cash cow of the after dinner party circuit. so this a lot of our politicians at the moment are on a careerist track. they don't really care about the 90 grand a year. what they're looking for is the kind of celebrity and publicity they'll their they'll get post their parliamentary careers. >> so sympathy >> so, okay, so sympathy for them. have i know a story them. i have no i know a story through family. i know through my wider family. i know a about jeremy hunt. okay a story about jeremy hunt. okay chancellor. bloody working chancellor. bloody hard working

all he took time out. all the time. he took time out. he took time out to do something in relation to damaged children . in relation to damaged children. right. challenged children. there was nothing in it for him. he's never had any publicity for it. he worked damned hard at this. almost single handedly. and it has happened. it's and it has happened. and it's only happened because of him. he did not seek any preferment. he did not seek any preferment. he did not seek pr. nobody knows about it. i happened to, i happened to i happened to hear about it right. i think a lot of goodis about it right. i think a lot of good is done by politicians and the bad as as in julius caesar lives after them. the good is often turned in their bones. and thatis often turned in their bones. and that is that is my issue. i do not i that is that is my issue. i do noti do that is that is my issue. i do not i do not. i don't know how much i agree with ella. i don't know what is the right number, but the idea of quoting railway drivers, drivers is a bit rich, isn't it? they make 65 grand for about 32 hour week. well, they're hoping all day long the train break for a lot of people don't need, you know, if only jeremy charleton navalny jeremy

hunt was a bit of a better chancellor. >> he's a crap chancellor, and he's not doing anything for the economy. >> a about drivers. >> you a lot about drivers. country not in good shape. no country is not in good shape. no child his work, do a child drivers do his work, do a job that, you know, transporting people country is an people around the country is an important thing. >> the point. i >> but this is the point. i think that, you know, you don't score points as to who's more valuable, who does more work. the has we can't valuable, who does more work. the striking has we can't valuable, who does more work. the striking workers we can't valuable, who does more work. the striking workers any we can't valuable, who does more work. the striking workers any morean't valuable, who does more work. the striithererorkers any morean't valuable, who does more work. the striithere just rs any morean't valuable, who does more work. the striithere just isn'ty morean't valuable, who does more work. the striithere just isn't any)re1n't because there just isn't any more pennies the coffers. more pennies in the coffers. that's obviously nonsense. >> lot of nurses did >> i think a lot of nurses did get about 5, so some would argue that actually it's probably a similar of similar amount. the chairman of ipsa, the body, of ipsa, this is the body, of course, that decide what this course, that decide on what this pay course, that decide on what this pay they've pay amount should be. they've said an mp not said serving as an mp should not be reserved those wealthy be reserved to those wealthy enough fund it themselves. we enough to fund it themselves. we believe recognises believe the decision recognises the play in our the vital role mps play in our democracy , and considers the democracy, and considers the continued economic challenges facing the country. well, there you go. where are you on that conversation? tell me gbviews@gbnews.com is how you get a hold of me. and speaking about money, we know about the, subpostmasters scandal. by now the compensation coming their

way. but what about the children of those subpostmasters . here's of those subpostmasters. here's some of them now are saying that there should be in line for compensation because of the impact of it all them. do you impact of it all on them. do you agree with that or so i'll agree with that or not? so i'll see you in two.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, the former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie. and the broadcaster and journalist ella wheeler. and welcome back, everybody. we, we've been talking about we've just been talking about mps whether or not the mps pay whether or not the £91,000 just over. actually, it's soon to be. is it right about figure or not? paul says if you pay me, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. michelle have we paid more? we might actually have a better quality of person rather than the dross that we currently have. his words, not my words, carol are you having a carol said, are you having a laugh? £91,000. they should all be on performance related pay,

if that , they'd all be if we did that, they'd all be having a pay cut, and rightly so, says. how dare they, i so, she says. how dare they, i can tell you now, trevor again , can tell you now, trevor again, mp should be on performance related pay. they would all be skint . so many. says again, skint. so many. mark says again, get on performance related get them on performance related pay- get them on performance related pay. 95% of them would probably need to use the banks , if need to use the food banks, if that was the case. is there anybody out there that actually thinks that £91,000, is not enough ? anybody. can you get in enough? anybody. can you get in touch and let me know your thoughts? neil actually says giving them £150,000 a year with no expenses whatsoever , and half no expenses whatsoever, and half the number you could have about 325 of them instead of the 650 as it stands. would you support that or not, now we all know, don't we, about the horizon scandal by now, the fight there for justice and compensation, by forjustice and compensation, by the subpostmasters will now, a group of the children of these subpostmasters are seeking compensation . apparently their compensation. apparently their lives were left in tatters , by

lives were left in tatters, by the impacts of the goings on with their parents, what do you make to this? now? i have to just be transparent that the person leading this group, the person leading this group, the person leading this group, the person leading this group, she says she recognises this. she probably won't get any taxpayer compensation, but pushing probably won't get any taxpayer conperhaps)n, but pushing probably won't get any taxpayer conperhaps fujitsu pushing probably won't get any taxpayer conperhaps fujitsu for pushing probably won't get any taxpayer conperhaps fujitsu for pustorg for perhaps fujitsu for them to look at this compensation level. >> well, i mean , the reality is >> well, i mean, the reality is that lives do change edge for the worse when you're a child. it depends what the atmosphere was at home. you know, i was lucky . i was raised originally lucky. i was raised originally in a council flat. i was as happy as larry. i had a very, very happy , happy upbringing. very happy, happy upbringing. >> well, it wasn't a happy life. that's what they're saying. they're saying that their parents were bankruptcy. >> very flexible and >> kids are very flexible and can get get it over. somebody has come up with a good idea and they're trying to get some money out it. honestly, they're out of it. honestly, they're parents were treated disgracefully i be am disgracefully and i be i am 1,000,001% behind them receiving a very large payouts. and

there's some extraordinary changes happening in the just in the, in the justice system in order to accommodate it. and i think that that is enough. i'm not in favour of the children having money. >> so some of these kids, by the way, they're saying that their life was massively impacted. they were bullied, of course, because many people thought that their wrong'uns their parents were wrong'uns were some of were criminals, etc. some of these their parents these people, their parents perhaps perhaps perhaps even prosecuted, perhaps even you know, even ended up in jail, you know, so many children saying that they really did struggle as part of group. where are you on of this group. where are you on it, ella? >> i'm genuinely you know, >> i'm genuinely torn, you know, i that they if you read i think that they if you read some of stories , you know, some of these stories, you know, if, your father or mother was if, if your father or mother was a postmaster and was either sent to jail or it has to also be recorded that there, you know, there were people who also took their own lives because of their true accusations. so you have some serious events some very serious events happening people happening in family life, people splitting up, people being ostracised from their, you know, small communities and neighbourhoods , and children neighbourhoods, and children having feeling the knock on effect of that, know , being, effect of that, you know, being,

as know, bullied at school, as you know, bullied at school, being shunned by your people who don't trust your parents, all of that. i have the utmost sympathy for. and if i was one of them, i'd get all i could out of it to try and get some kind of joy back into my life. but like calvin, i think there's, you know, you have to ask, take a step back and ask about the precedent of this, which you precedent of this, which is, you know that mean for know what does that mean for expanding, compensate outwards? is there a problem with making it too broad? in actual fact, in the article we've got in the telegraph, they ask a sort of legal expert and he says that actually, this isn't a legal question. it's a political one, which is that if fujitsu and the government decide that it's politically expand the politically right to expand the compensation out to families, wives , children, then they can wives, children, then they can do it. you know, it it is possible to do it. it's not there's no legal barrier to it. but when at the moment the government is, you know, and post office is being very tight fisted with helping the actual postmasters, i don't see it

happening. >> well, apparently the head of fujitsu, has expressed an fujitsu, he has expressed an interest, in meeting interest, apparently, in meeting the these young people's the head of these young people's group. so we shall follow that story interest , david says, story with interest, david says, i agree with these kids i don't agree with these kids getting a payout. he says it's just kids trying to get money for nothing. coolblue me, richard says, of course these children should be entitled to compensation because they suffered along with their parents. there's £91,000. natalie says. not lot of natalie says. it's not a lot of money as a salary for an mp. when you look at the amount of abuse and threats on their life that these people have, they should be paid much, much more, there you go , so many people there you go, so many people have this idea about performance related pay, though. i keep coming back to it. that is coming back to it. that is coming through thick and fast. i don't think it'll ever happen. but for now, ella, thank you for your kelvin. thanks for your company. kelvin. thanks for yours. and of thank you. yours. and of course, thank you. at home it's nigel farage up next, don't go anywhere. but next, so don't go anywhere. but i'll tomorrow night. i'll see you tomorrow night. >> a outlook with boxt >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar of weather on . gb

news. >> good evening. welcome to your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. tomorrow will be a case of dodging the downpours. some pretty heavy ones around, but also some bright spells when low pressure is dominating . sitting right is dominating. sitting right over the uk, never going to have dry weather for long, but this low has been providing some very soggy conditions through central and southern scotland through the day. and it stays wet overnight here, showers elsewhere drier elsewhere becoming a bit drier for england wales through for england and wales through the then more heavy the night, but then more heavy downpours coming the downpours coming from the southwest early southwest through the early hours. winds with as hours. gusty winds with that as well, even the odd rumble well, maybe even the odd rumble of that might wake you of thunder that might wake you up. mild night for most, up. a very mild night for most, but enough for a touch but just low enough for a touch of in northern scotland. of frost in northern scotland. in countryside . so damp in the countryside. so a damp and start most of and chilly start for most of scotland. further heavy showers further south. a lot of spray and surface water on the roads for the morning commute . those for the morning commute. those downpours should ease through the but it stays dull and the day but it stays dull and damp for southeast scotland.

northeast elsewhere, northeast england elsewhere, a mixture bright spells but mixture of bright spells but also further showers. again also some further showers. again pretty mild for england and wales. 1516 where we see some sunshine but a cold feeling day, particularly that particularly with that persistent scotland , persistent rain over scotland, gets pretty cold on friday night. of us will start the night. many of us will start the weekend a touch of frost, weekend with a touch of frost, but many of us will start but also many of us will start with some sunshine. stays fine for of eastern england, for much of eastern england, northern england and scotland. further cloud will be further west, cloud will be edging with some patchy rain. edging in with some patchy rain. temperatures the teens in the temperatures in the teens in the south, single figures once more further north. despite some decent of sunshine. decent spells of sunshine. >> goodbye looks like are >> goodbye looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening. a new definition of extremism is put before us by michael gove today. but i worry. could it be abused to start stamping out free speech and political opinions governments disagree with? and we've got a new proposed piece of legislation. yes, it's nigel's law. that's what i'm going to call it, because they're saying they're going to make it much harder for banks to close people down. i'm very, very pleased this massive very pleased with this massive step right direction and step in the right direction and joining me on talking pints fresh from being in the celebrity big brother household. and of course , the uncle of the and of course, the uncle of the future queen of england, gary goldsmith , here for talking goldsmith, here for talking pints. but before all of that, let's get the news with sophia wenzler . wenzler. >> nigel. thank you. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. your top story this hour. michael gove has named some of the

groups to