of have called for the removal of the funding from that museum. but isn't that a stretch too far as well? your thoughts on that also? ltns low traffic neighbourhoods government guidance says councils need to get approval now when they want to these things. do you to launch these things. do you have one in your area and do you backit have one in your area and do you back it ? also? get this the back it? also? get this the owner of scottish widows has issued guidance to issued new staff guidance to avoid, others, word avoid, among others, the word widow because it may be triggering. i just to press triggering. i just need to press pause the stupidity of all of pause on the stupidity of all of this for a moment, and i want to instead focus what makes instead focus on what makes companies way. there's companies act this way. there's esg d0 companies act this way. there's esg do you even know esg strategies. do you even know what is? where they what that is? it's where they desperately and tick boxes desperately try and tick boxes around things like environment and ifs around things like environment and it's all of this and diversity. it's all of this much needed and a force for good or not. and the lengths that stores are now going to try and stop shoplifting are absolutely eye—watering. any it eye—watering. but will any of it make a blind bit of difference, or has the ship already sailed ? or has the ship already sailed? indeed.so or has the ship already sailed? indeed. so we're going to get stuck into all of that across

the next hour. but before we do, let's cross live for tonight's latest news headlines. >> michelle, thank you and good evening to you. well our top story tonight the government has started to identify. it says which illegal migrants will be on the first flights to rwanda . on the first flights to rwanda. downing street says the initial cohort of people is now being contacted , with the prime contacted, with the prime minister still determined. he says see the first plane says to see the first plane leaving later this spring and mps are due to vote this evening on separate changes to the rwanda bill suggested by peers from the house of lords . rishi from the house of lords. rishi sunak saying he is committed, though, to getting flights off the ground. >> it's important that we get the rwanda scheme up and running because we need to have a deterrent, we need to make it clear if you come here clear that if you come here illegally, will be able illegally, you will not be able to stay and we will able to to stay and we will be able to remove that is the only way remove you. that is the only way to properly solve the issue of illegal migration. now we've made both made good progress on both numbers a third

numbers were down by a third last year, so that shows that our plan working. but in our plan is working. but in order finish the job, we need order to finish the job, we need the rwanda scheme through. we're getting parliament. getting it through parliament. everyone block everyone is trying to block us, including the labour party, because a plan because they don't have a plan to problem. we do. to tackle this problem. we do. i am determined see it through, am determined to see it through, get the deterrent up and running as as possible . as quickly as possible. >> response, the shadow as quickly as possible. >> secretary,onse, the shadow as quickly as possible. >> secretary, yvette 1e shadow as quickly as possible. >> secretary, yvette cooperow as quickly as possible. >> secretary, yvette cooper ,n home secretary, yvette cooper, told us at gb news the government does need to get a grip on the situation . ian. grip on the situation. ian. >> we need to strengthen our border security and fix the chaos in the asylum system because under the conservatives we've really seen criminal gangs take hold along the channel and then this huge soaring backlog with asylum hotel use that is costing the taxpayer billions. so instead of all the gimmicks that we've had from rishi sunak and the conservatives, our plan is to get a grip that starts with the new cross border police to go after the criminal gangs to go after the criminal gangs to smash the gang networks and prevent boats arriving on the french coast in the first place.

>> meanwhile, the prime minister has been announcing plans today to create 20,000 new apprenticeships on a visit to coventry in the west midlands . coventry in the west midlands. he was pledging £60 million worth of new investment , he was pledging £60 million worth of new investment, in fact, to cover a series of reforms, including fully funded training for young people and a reduction in red tape for small businesses. labour has accused the government of economic failure, but mr sunak says action is being taken and the full cost of apprenticeships will be offered to applicants aged under 21 at small firms. from the 1st of april. small business owners seem to have welcomed the move. >> i think the apprenticeship and payment in full would be fantastic. we've had an apprentice before, she did phenomenally well and but funds have been quite tight the last couple of years and that's not something that i've been able to enter into again, although i want to. so that will be is a benefit. >> i think there's lots of positives in there. i think there's some great stuff for helping small businesses for our

business. we need a bit more for the small businesses in the uk will see it as to what it is. >> it's probably a last ditch effort to get some confidence back.i effort to get some confidence back. i don't think he's done enough. i don't think it's going to the confidence to small businesses. >> well, the prime minister has also busy today, rebuffing also been busy today, rebuffing the a the speculation about a leadership challenge, saying he isn't interested in the politics of westminster. he said to his party they should stick to the plan. he told backbenchers the economy was turning a corner, but he was forced to speak out after rumours suggested right wing tories were lining up penny mordaunt replace him . well, mordaunt to replace him. well, the former us president, barack obama has been in downing street today for private talks with the prime minister in what's been described as a courtesy visit, mr obama served two terms in the white house from 2009 to 2017, a whitehall source has told us. at gb news, president obama was there for an informal meeting and they discussed the work of the obama foundation . the former the obama foundation. the former president was in downing street

for about an hour now. the former environment minister, zac goldsmith , has been banned from goldsmith, has been banned from driving for a year. it's after he was caught breaking the speed limit seven separate times, driving in london between april and november last year. the conservative peer was also caught speeding on two motorways, most recently in december in his hybrid electric car. december in his hybrid electric can he december in his hybrid electric car. he pleaded guilty to all the offences and was fined 5500 pounds. as well as being ordered to pay a surcharge of 2000 plus costs . now nine police officers costs. now nine police officers have been recognised for their incredible bravery , risking incredible bravery, risking their lives to rescue residents from a mobile phone mobile home fire in windsor in berkshire. take a look. get back . take a look. get back. >> move back from it now! move back. move that way , move that way. >> if you're listening on radio, that's the sound of thames valley police. they've released body cam footage of the incident at that caravan park in 2021,

where emergency crews had been called in to respond to an explosion after several mobile homes were catching alight. one of the policemen, who took part in the rescue said it was the first time he'd had a chance to look back at the video and properly reflect on just how close he and his colleagues came to harming themselves or even to death, he said. the selfless act was driven pure was actually driven by pure instinct . and finally, britain's instinct. and finally, britain's most successful female olympian, dame laura kenny, has announced her retirement from professional cycling. the athlete posted the news on her instagram page, saying it was time to move on. the five time gold medallist had been expected to compete at the paris games this summer. the 31 year old welcomed her second son last year and said spending time at home with him and her family was proving more important to her at the moment. for the related stories do you sign up to gb news alerts? scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. common alerts .

news. common alerts. >> thank you very much for that, polly. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight alongside the deputy leader of reform uk, ben habib, and the broadcast journalist judy ta da silva. good evening to both of you. you know the drill on this programme, don't you? it's not just about us three. it's about you guys at home as well. what's on your mind tonight? you can get me all the get in touch with me all the usual ways. views at gb news. usual ways. gb views at gb news. com my email. or you can com is my email. or you can tweet me at gb news. but first up, i mean, i long for the day, right? where never need to right? where i never need to mention this ever again because it's dusted one way mention this ever again because it':another. dusted one way mention this ever again because it':another. but dusted one way mention this ever again because it':another. but tonightd one way mention this ever again because it':another. but tonight is»ne way mention this ever again because it':another. but tonight is notnay or another. but tonight is not that day because of course i'm speaking of the bill. speaking of the rwanda bill. it's back forth like i it's been back and forth like i don't know what. and now it's back in commons being voted back in the commons being voted on much we speak. on pretty much now as we speak. i'll live to westminster, i'll cross live to westminster, where political editor, where our political editor, christopher us christopher hope, can bring us up speed. evening. up to speed. good evening. christopher, please tell us all what's this what's going on tonight on this one. please

>> hi, michelle. evening and great to be on your show. yeah. the votes have been delayed till 8:00. we had led to believe there were at 6 pm, but they were delayed till 8:00. so they won't come on your show. but there are ten attempts by the house of lords to water down or they would say improve the rwanda bill. ten measures passed by the peers which mps here tonight will try and reverse. just very briefly, they cover things like making sure the bill is fully compliant with the rule of law, which you might expect that to be the case. it's passed by parliament, but anyway, that's one of the measures which the peers put in. they're that's one of the measures which the [checking put in. they're that's one of the measures which the [checking that in. they're that's one of the measures which the [checking that rwandai're also checking that rwanda is a safe country. if safe country. that's if amendments three. and so amendments two and three. and so it on, there should be it goes on, there should be mechanism parliament mechanism which parliament should on should be notified on the progress treaty and others, progress of a treaty and others, and protections for people who are who have helped to be allies of the uk , who arrive here of the uk, who arrive here illegally, should they be sent to rwanda or to their own country. so there ten. there country. so there are ten. there were amendments made to the were ten amendments made to the rwanda by and rwanda bill by peers. and tonight the government will seek

rwanda bill by peers. and t0|reversea government will seek rwanda bill by peers. and t0|reverse those. 'nment will seek rwanda bill by peers. and t0|reverse those. it'sent will seek rwanda bill by peers. and t0|reverse those. it's at will seek rwanda bill by peers. and t0|reverse those. it's a process ek to reverse those. it's a process called ping pong, a very boring, but it basically means the house of commons overrules house of lords . it goes back to the lords. it goes back to the lords, probably on wednesday, then back to the commons for another vote. that could another vote. and that could happen 3 times before. the happen 2 or 3 times before. the lords is likely to fold. it's unlikely they're going ask unlikely they're going to ask for, going to say, we for, they're going to say, we are not going to put up with this. very rare this. that's only on very rare occasions so, all occasions that happens. so, all part the democratic part of the democratic process. we know, though, from number we do know, though, from number 10 are now approaching 10 that they are now approaching what cohort of what they call a cohort of people arrived here people who arrived here illegally informing they illegally informing them they will back to rwanda on will be sent back to rwanda on the first flight. how big is that cohort? we don't know . that cohort? we don't know. labour it's only only labour has said it's only only a few hundred. if that . and if few hundred. if that. and if it's that small and it's not working, they will. they will act rwanda plan if they act the rwanda plan if they become the government and become the next government and they've own plan to they've got their own plan to hire many as thousand hire as many as a thousand people to with returns. people to help with returns. and in deportation unit in the in a new deportation unit in the home office. so we are getting towards the end of this interminable debate about the

rwanda plan . rwanda plan. >> fascinating stuff. i say that with my fingers crossed , because with my fingers crossed, because i can't wait for the day when it's all done and dusted. christopher, one way or another. but for now, thank very much but for now, thank you very much for bringing us up to speed. you look you're about to look like you're about to spontaneously combustion in some of habib, what's the of that. ben habib, what's the matter you? matter with you? >> mean , you know, the >> well, i mean, you know, the rwanda is going to rwanda plan is not going to work, it? it can't make its work, is it? it can't make its way through parliament in a manner makes sense. the manner that makes sense. the idea that the commons be idea that the commons should be directed lords to not directed by the lords to not break law , when actually it break the law, when actually it is parliament that makes the law just says it's testimony, i think, to how discombobulated our whole legislature and legal system has become in this country. we simply cannot protect our borders. and we've seen this spectacle of the rwanda plan. i'm completely with you. i've got my fingers crossed for it. just to end. can we stop talking about the rwanda plan? even if it comes in, it's not going to act as a deterrent. it's no deterrent. a few hundred people might and according people might go, and according to the financial times today, the of the hundred that

the cost of the few hundred that might would be £3 billion. might go would be £3 billion. i mean , we just lost the plot in mean, we just lost the plot in this country. it's very simple to police our borders. what we have to do is enforce our borders. that's a physical process which takes place at our borders, and the prevention of those who wish to enter our country illegally. it's worked for thousands of years. and we need to rediscover the political will to protect our borders. >> i want to come back to you on that. but before i do, i want to bnng that. but before i do, i want to bring you in. what's your thoughts on it? >> i just think the whole the messaging and the optics of the whole process, where rishi sunak was meant to be was saying it's meant to be a deterrent. i do agree that it's not going to deter anyone because they've seen that it doesn't water. the idea doesn't hold water. and the idea that come we'll that if you come here, we'll send rwanda and rwanda is send you to rwanda and rwanda is somehow, unquote, a somehow, quote unquote, a deterrence people who want to deterrence to people who want to migrate, is, of all, like migrate, is, first of all, like i've before, offensive to i've said before, offensive to rwanda. second all, not functional. >> yeah. i mean, did have >> yeah. i mean, we did have this before this conversation before i remember this conversation before i renander this conversation before i renand it's that people like >> and it's not that people like you made a good point last time

that actually people have done their to try undermine their best to try and undermine certain countries. then when their best to try and undermine ce suits, :ountries. then when their best to try and undermine ce suits, people s. then when their best to try and undermine ce suits, people actually|en when their best to try and undermine ce suits, people actually they hen their best to try and undermine ceslook people actually they hen their best to try and undermine ceslook at ople actually they hen their best to try and undermine ceslook at how actually they hen their best to try and undermine ceslook at how wonderfuliey hen their best to try and undermine ceslook at how wonderful this en go look at how wonderful this is. know that actually is. and i know that actually a lot of viewers got in touch about that point. that was and is a good point. but i'll bring you this you back in, ben, because this whole like you say, oh whole notion, like you say, oh yeah, just need protect yeah, we just need to protect our borders and all the rest of it. you see, can't even get it. you see, they can't even get a like this across the a process like this across the line. all of a sudden, this line. so all of a sudden, this policing the border, whether policing of the border, whether you whether armed you mean whether it's by armed forces it is, it's forces or whoever it is, it's going to push. i'm assuming that you and turn you mean push back and turn back. these boats. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> you're not get >> but you're not going to get that anywhere near across that land can't even get land if you can't even get something land if you can't even get someth what we seeing the >> but what we are seeing is the extinguishing the nation extinguishing of the nation state united state that is the united kingdom, a fundamental aspect of being state is being a nation state is territorial if you territorial integrity. if you can't your borders, you can't enforce your borders, you cease as country, but can't enforce your borders, you ceaswon't as country, but can't enforce your borders, you ceaswon't across)untry, but can't enforce your borders, you ceaswon't across the ry, but can't enforce your borders, you ceaswon't across the you ut you won't get across the you work line if can't. work past the line if you can't. >> government today can't >> if the government today can't even get across the line, this situation whereby you'd fly people be people to a safe country to be cared all the rest of it cared for and all the rest of it there, you're going to there, then you're not going to get across the line. you're not

going do, we're to going to do, we're going to stick in the stick the royal navy in the middle pushing these boats. >> you're not going to get people to do it, but that is the correct, right to correct, right thing to be doing. border force doing. that's what border force is meant to do. >> going to happen. >> it's not going to happen. >> it's not going to happen. >> no. >> no. >> but but do you concede it's not going to happen? concede not going to happen? i concede it's happen. it's not going to happen. >> decent can is going >> decent policy i can is going to i concede it's not to happen. i concede it's not going to happen, i will not going to happen, but i will not stop it because it is the stop saying it because it is the common sensible, correct common sense, sensible, correct thing these thing to be doing. and these people plot people have lost the plot and those charge country those in charge of this country are deliberately it, are deliberately destroying it, and stop. and it has to stop. >> do you think to all of >> what do you think to all of this home? you know, this at home? because, you know, i actually, i'm i confess, actually, i'm a little bored of going around little bit bored of going around this circle of the this exact same circle of the rwanda it's back and rwanda situation. it's back and it's forward. it's this amendment and it's forward. it's this am the �*nent and it's forward. it's this am the rest: and it's forward. it's this am the rest of and it's forward. it's this am the rest of it, and it's forward. it's this am the rest of it, is and it's forward. it's this am the rest of it, is just and all the rest of it, it is just getting a little bit pathetic. now it? even those now isn't it? even for those people perhaps this people that perhaps support this as deterrent, whole as a deterrent, this whole ridiculousness, ever ridiculousness, do you ever actually going to actually think it is going to cross line or not? rishi cross the line or not? rishi sunak the this rwanda sunak by the way, this rwanda situation, the situation, this is some of the least his worries of least of his worries because of course, economy made course, the economy he's made that his five big that one of his five big pledges. been speaking out pledges. he's been speaking out today. think can just have a today. i think i can just have a

listen him, what has to say. >> all conservatives are united in wanting to deliver a brighter future and that future for our country, and that is are cutting people's is why we are cutting people's taxes. £900 for a typical person in work. we're increasing the state pension by £900 in just a few weeks . we're in the middle few weeks. we're in the middle of one of the biggest expansions of one of the biggest expansions of childcare that our of free childcare that our country we're getting country has seen. we're getting the boats down by the number of boats down by a third last year tackling illegal migration, announcing migration, and today announcing new numbers apprenticeships new numbers of apprenticeships supporting businesses. supporting small businesses. these are all the things that matter to people. if we stick with that i can deliver with that plan, i can deliver a brighter future for everyone in our country. >> plan stick with sunak. >> plan stick with sunak. >> i just think that rishi sunak is kind of reaching critical mass now, where it's just a series of lofty rhetoric on the campaign trail because like when they talk about the first 100 days in an administration, is where you can be most effective and effectively leave a legacy by what you make, change how you affect at this, at this affect change at this, at this point in time, what he's talking about goes to goes to show about only goes to goes to show that a country that's that in a country that's

suffering of living crisis , suffering cost of living crisis, there's problems with the health service, transport, pensions , service, transport, pensions, where is all the money going to come that you to constantly come that you seem to constantly , constantly you're , constantly be pledging? you're saying turning at saying the economy is turning at the end of the day, what i will always give rishi sunak, he's a numbers man and excellent numbers man and he's excellent at you reading? at it. but what are you reading? numbers nothing to the numbers means nothing to the everyday does he everyday man. how does he how does feel? tangibly in does he feel? it's tangibly in his functional existence to his functional existence day to day. it there. day. he's not feeling it there. so your lofty rhetoric so what's your lofty rhetoric does make you come does is just make you come across a perception across with a perception of disingenuous ity. >> is that fair, ben? >> is that fair, ben? >> is that fair, ben? >> i think it's entirely fair , >> i think it's entirely fair, with the exception of your with the one exception of your flattering to flattering his ability to be numerical . i know the gdp per numerical. i know the gdp per capha numerical. i know the gdp per capita has gone down every quarter for the last seven quarters on a per capita basis, we've been in a recession for longer than any other recession since world war two. rishi sunak has not got a grip of the of the economy. and when he talks about our plan is working, all the policies he's delivering are exactly the same policies that were in place before inflation took off. in fact, a lot of the

reason inflation took off was because of the policies he, as chancellor , promoted and what chancellor, promoted and what they needed to do in 2022 when they needed to do in 2022 when they ousted boris , was to have a they ousted boris, was to have a 180 degree u—turn turn on the policies by which this country is governed , both economically is governed, both economically and in virtually all other respects . and what he's done is respects. and what he's done is more of the same. you don't get your way out of a cost of living crisis by going down inexorably. the economically emasculated policy that is net zero, which adds about £60 billion per annum to the exchequer's output every yeah to the exchequer's output every year. you don't do it by big state intervention, borrowing, taxing and spending . he talks taxing and spending. he talks about taxes being cut, but actually taxes are going up. when you take into account the inflationary effect of pulling people, you know, the stealth tax of pulling people. yeah. fiscal drag, people pulling people into higher tax bands , people into higher tax bands, this man has got no vision. his

idea of steering the economy is to sit there doing nothing different to what's been done before, practising all the policies that got us into trouble in the first place, and hoping that the passage of time will get him out of out of trouble. >> well, there was rumour at the weekend. penny mordaunt perhaps, would a good suggestion for would be a good suggestion for the next leader the tories. the next leader of the tories. is that an opinion you can get on with, not exactly, on board with, not. not exactly, but better but anything would be better than they are now. but i than where they are now. but i think, like the i made, think, like the point i made, one of the times i was, i was on your show was the fact that you're with a situation you're dealing with a situation where sunak not an where rishi sunak is not an earned leader, he's a leader of circumstance, now finds circumstance, and now he finds himself having the bag, himself having to carry the bag, part he's responsible part of which he's responsible for post—covid, but also navigated a where you navigated to a point where you can hand over. but at the same time, you're creating more problems than you are solving because unfortunately, how do you problems that you didn't you fix problems that you didn't create completely on your own because you know how to because you don't know how to navigate through them? navigate your way through them? and what he's suffering and that's what he's suffering from. lack of

from. and now you have a lack of confidence within your own party, you look party, which makes you look incompetent. still incompetent. are you still confident tories? confident in the tories? >> many of you perhaps >> i know many of you perhaps will you will have voted for them. do you stand do look stand by that? do you look on now yes, it's all going now and say, yes, it's all going swimmingly or not? your thoughts on the way, so many on that? and by the way, so many people in touch people are getting in touch saying, the could saying, michel, the navy could police the borders. me then police the borders. tell me then how cross this? how how would you cross this? how would across would you get this policy across the can't the land? because they can't even the rwanda one even seem to get the rwanda one across line. and that far across the line. and that is far less controversial. would less controversial. some would suggest knocking your suggest i'm not knocking your ideas just give ideas by the way. just give me some practical as how some practical ideas as to how you think you'd get that across the when comes the line when it comes to parliaments the parliaments coming up after the break, to you break, i want to talk to you about low traffic about ltns low traffic neighbourhoods. do you have one of things you of these things and did you support a support it and get this as a museum the that's now got museum in the uk that's now got margaret described margaret thatcher and described as a contemporary villain alongside osama bin alongside the likes of osama bin laden hitler. really? laden and adolf hitler. really? your

? 7 hi ? hi there. michelle dewberry

until 7:00 tonight alongside me. my until 7:00 tonight alongside me. my panel remain. i've got to say, we've just been having a good chat in the break. there i've got ben habib alongside me and greta de silva. we're just talking. i was just saying getting a little bored and getting a little bit bored and fed these circles fed up with these circles that we and around we keep going around and around in to the rwanda in when it comes to the rwanda plan. you guys are plan. but you guys are quite rightly out the rightly pointed out all the opposite that. michelle is opposite of that. michelle is basically a dictator, a dictatorship, and i want dictatorship, and i don't want to of those to live under one of those ehhen to live under one of those either. you what? we'll either. so you know what? we'll carry talking about the carry on talking about the rwanda it reaches rwanda plan until it reaches some also some kind of conclusion also as well. something that caught my eye seen this? eye today. have you seen this? the victoria albert museum, the victoria and albert museum, they've this new exhibition they've got this new exhibition basically is alongside like a punch and type thing. and punch and judy type thing. and one the descriptions here is one of the descriptions here is it's about villains, and it's talking about villains, and they're saying they used to essentially be the devil , but essentially be the devil, but things have evolved. and now what is they're talking what they do is they're talking about using a different type of villain that reflects on popular pubuc villain that reflects on popular public figures, which is fine. you might think. public figures, which is fine. you might think . but then they you might think. but then they start talking about hitler start talking about adolf hitler and bin laden, and and osama bin laden, and alongside them, margaret

thatcher, a villain alongside the likes of osama bin laden and hitler. really? >> now what i'm going to say is going to sound as if i'm using hyperbole to exemplify my point. but we talked in the last segment, or i did, about the extinguishing of the nation state that is the united kingdom. and actually it's trivial might seem. this trivial as this might seem. this is that attack on the is part of that attack on the united kingdom. margaret thatcher was a democratically elected leader. i think the longest serving minister longest serving prime minister since world war two. she set many records. she broke the grip that the far left had on our economy , liberated society, put economy, liberated society, put aspiration first ahead of dependency. she's someone, whether or not you agree with her legacy, someone who we should regard as a great british historical figure. but they attack her, and in doing it, they're attacking our history. they're attacking those people who we should hold in high regard and so the board of the vna, whoever made this decision , vna, whoever made this decision, i collectively the board should be sacked . really? yeah,

be sacked. really? yeah, absolutely. they should. they're not at liberty to vilify margaret thatcher. their discretion when they when they're taking the public purse in to order discharge their obligations. >> and by the way, i do have to say that this museum got most of its income, which was more than £67 million from the taxpayer, apparently this is via the department of culture . where are department of culture. where are you on this? >> i'm first of all, i think that it has been taken out of context and it's misguided politicisation of something that isn't political at all. there were the exhibit is talking about the evolution of humour , about the evolution of humour, and they're using punch and judy and they're using punch and judy and also references to the puppets, the puppetry show spitting image . and they said spitting image. and they said that the origin of punch and judy is it seemed very british, but it wasn't. it came from italy and the commedia dell'arte. and when it evolved over time, became a very over time, it became a very quintessential british thing. and in the narrative of it, there's always a villain. it began as the devil, but over the over the course of time, based

on different iterations in different locations , the villain different locations, the villain is depicted differently. so in a particular setting it would have been adolf hitler. in another setting, it would been setting, it would have been osama bin laden and a different setting. margaret setting. it was margaret thatcher. at the location, thatcher. look at the location, the the where it was the time, the era where it was done and it would give it context. i'm sure that if you saw punch and judy in ireland at a certain time, it would have british figures british political figures depicted villain. it's depicted as the villain. so it's not that we the museum not saying that we the museum has an opinion on thatcher and is endorsing that opinion for other people to join them. it's talking about the evolution of humour and different kinds humour and the different kinds of depiction there is of it. when you pick a classic, a classic piece of art like punch and judy. >> that fair? >> is that fair? >> is that fair? >> is that fair? >> i don't think it is fair. i think that i, you know , to we're think that i, you know, to we're very good. the british at laughing at ourselves. you know, it's something we do traditionally extremely well and spitting image was a fantastic show in which everyone was equally belittled, but what they've done here is put

margaret thatcher alongside osama bin laden and adolf hitler. and even though it might be done in a semi—humorous humorous way, if that is genuinely the aim at the very least. and it's not, i'd use the word subliminal, but it's much more than subliminal. they are promoting her as a villain. that's what they're saying. margaret thatcher sits here as villain. >> they're not promoting anything. they're depicting the facts of what is, because she was depicted as the villain in punch and judy in certain iterations of that puppet show, and virtually everyone was and but virtually everyone was in that puppet but in that puppet show. yeah, but then what? i'm trying to then now what? i'm trying to challenge when say that challenge is when you say that people must stick to one perception, you're doing it on the other. the flip side of the other. on the flip side of that coin, saying that there should depiction of should be only one depiction of thatcher regard thatcher when it comes to regard for her legacy. but the for her and her legacy. but the key this what have to key is this what you have to accept. are people who do key is this what you have to accethatcher are people who do key is this what you have to accethatcher as'e people who do key is this what you have to accethatcher as a people who do key is this what you have to accethatcher as a villain who do key is this what you have to accethatcher as a villain whenio see thatcher as a villain when it comes to discussions on poll tax. catalyst she was tax. the catalyst she was a catalyst the demise of catalyst for the demise of british manufacturing and social housing. was against the housing. she was against the unification germany . she

unification of germany. she called nelson mandela a terrorist. there are people who do not have a very positive opinion of thatcher or her legacy. she she is what she is, but to she might not be but to others she might not be that thing. well as far as that same thing. well as far as i'm concerned, there is basis i'm concerned, there is no basis on can be put in any on which she can be put in any comparable fashion to adolf comparable fashion next to adolf hitler and osama bin laden. >> and a lot of the things that she did. i agree with you. poll tax wasn't her brightest move, but actually the tax was a sensible was sensible sensible was a sensible suggestion. just that the suggestion. it's just that the people it. it was people didn't like it. it was typical . it was typical thatcherism. it was promoting what she thought was the right thing to do. >> query the validity of let's say there punch and judy in say there was punch and judy in south africa, them depicting thatcher as the villain . thatcher as the villain. >> well, that's not the that's not the nation state that was. >> but then that's the actual context of the exhibit saying that it context of the exhibit saying thatitis context of the exhibit saying that it is depicted differently in different and over in different places. and over time, villain has been these time, the villain has been these particular figures that then actually makes you think, and hence this conversation we're having today, how what is perception? how do people see the thatcher you speak of is the

same thatcher that when i see her, i think of what she said about nelson mandela and the rhetoric about the unification. >> he did advocate violence >> but he did advocate violence against didn't he? against the state, didn't he? >> what was the motivation for what nelson mandela did? >> whether one >> well, well, whether one one man's freedom fighter be man's freedom fighter may be another man's terrorist and vice versa, there is no is no, versa, there is no there is no, as as i'm saying, there is as far as i'm saying, there is no debate on apartheid. >> what it was. and it is >> it is what it was. and it is abhorrent. well, i'm not anyone who that purely for the who was pro that purely for the bafic who was pro that purely for the basic financial gain basic the financial gain of economic oppression of a people on their own land. >> you say that margaret thatcher was pro to say that margaret thatcher was pro—apartheid she pro—apartheid because she described mandela as a described nelson mandela as a terrorist . they're not the same terrorist. they're not the same thing. if someone's advocating violence, illegal violence against the state, that is, with against the state, that is, with a political motive by definition , that is terrorism. >> since you considered since you clearly are on that side, what was the very platform that generated the qualification of nelson mandela as a terrorist? what was he doing that qualified

him? >> he said that violence was justified in the pursuit violence? >> yeah. it was justified. for what cause? like what was his the platform for the end of apartheid. okay, that's . and apartheid. okay, so that's. and that not qualify what he apartheid. okay, so that's. and that there not qualify what he apartheid. okay, so that's. and that there are qualify what he apartheid. okay, so that's. and that there are that's! what he apartheid. okay, so that's. and that there are that's taking he apartheid. okay, so that's. and that there are that's taking it said there are that's taking it out of context. >> no what thatcher was i mean we're getting we're going down into what into the weeds. but what thatcher was challenging was the mechanism by apartheid was mechanism by which apartheid was was itself challenged. and there is no excuse for killing innocent people. none, in my view . none. innocent people. none, in my view. none. we innocent people. none, in my view . none. we have innocent people. none, in my view. none. we have a innocent people. none, in my view . none. we have a first view. none. we have a first minister in northern ireland who will not denounce the ira. as far as i'm concerned, the ira is an outright terrorist organisation. and how we have a first minister in northern ireland that won't call them out is absolutely beyond me. and again, it plays testimony to the fact that we're seeing slowly the extinguishing of the united kingdom. we've seen it now three times in this conversation , times in this conversation, firstly over the inability to police our borders , then the police our borders, then the vilification of our national heroes and our past great prime

ministers. and now we've got literally we've got a first minister in northern ireland who wishes to promote the, you know, who won't denounce the ira. and we've got a first minister in scotland that wants the end of the united this is a the united kingdom. this is a really bad place at this country's in at the moment. >> think it's >> well, i don't think it's going be getting better going to be getting any better on these issues. anytime on some of these issues. anytime soon, i've got say soon, do you? i've got to say the v&a said that the v&a apparently said that they're feedback they're always open to feedback from apparently from visitors, and apparently what is what they're going to do is review relevant label text review the relevant label text and wording if and update the wording if necessary. so time will tell. what, if anything , they do about what, if anything, they do about that. i want to talk to you, though, about ltn so—called low traffic neighbourhoods. of course, are popping course, these things are popping up all over the place now. have you got one where you live now? government guidelines, basically saying not, saying that if there's not, proper public support for this and they shouldn't be going ahead.ben and they shouldn't be going ahead. ben habib well, they're not about support not talking about public support for this, are they? >> actually, what they're saying, local saying, michel, is that local communities need to vote against their own ltns in order for them to be removed, or that there

needs to be popular support for unsin needs to be popular support for ltns in a community for them to be imposed . and that is very be imposed. and that is very different to talking about general public support and what the government is doing here in in, from what i can see is embedding using nimbyism , in embedding using nimbyism, in order to promote ltns because of course, if you have a house on a street, you want that street as quiet as you possibly can get it. so there will be local support for ltns . absolutely. support for ltns. absolutely. but is that the right policy for london or other cities? i don't think so. and i think we need a much bigger debate on ltns, which are being imposed on us by radical people like sadiq khan, who have some kind of agenda against the car and against people using cars as sort of war on the car is taking place and we need a proper discussion about it. >> and i think it's a triumph whether whichever way you look at it, for democracy , because it at it, for democracy, because it is such a universally like abhorred policy that if you're going to say that, oh, this is

them just posturing by saying we're listening to the people to affect how it's going to be governed and how it's going to be policed, that that should make the government good. make the government look good. fine is, is fine but what it is, is reactionary to the opinion of the . british people do reactionary to the opinion of the like . british people do reactionary to the opinion of the like this.british people do reactionary to the opinion of the like this. byish people do reactionary to the opinion of the like this. by and)eople do reactionary to the opinion of the like this. by and large, do not like this. by and large, they don't ltns ltns i completely agree and it affects them and when you think about even the emergency services, it is almost fatal in certain circumstances. so if you're going to say that we need to be on board to make it work, that's a good thing. that is a democratic position. >> but they're not invoking the general populace view. they're going local community wise going to local community wise and saying they're going to councils and saying, you've got to the support your local to get the support of your local community a local ltn. so if community for a local ltn. so if you that street, you're you live on that street, you're going a nimby, aren't you? going to be a nimby, aren't you? that's that's the way they're promoting they're promoting their agenda. they're stepping democratic stepping around the democratic voice. they're using voice. they're not using democracy it across. democracy to get it across. >> they have these >> when they have these consultations the consultations is one of the things coming is the things that's coming out is the low of engagement . low amount of engagement. >> of people are not >> a lot of people are not engaging with some these

engaging with some of these consultations the consultations because often the people that actually, consultations because often the pdon't that actually, consultations because often the pdon't feel that actually, consultations because often the pdon't feel like that actually, consultations because often the pdon't feel like tiviewztually, consultations because often the pdon't feel like tiview isally, i don't feel like my view is going listened to anyway. going to be listened to anyway. >> and this is something that would a catalyst to would actually be a catalyst to turn around. because when would actually be a catalyst to turnfeel around. because when would actually be a catalyst to turnfeel thatjnd. because when would actually be a catalyst to turnfeel that our because when would actually be a catalyst to turnfeel that our opinion; when you feel that our opinion collectively changed the way collectively has changed the way they're around executing they're going around executing policy, you're going to engage more. they say like more. that's why they say like talking about, look, thinking about local government, that when to that when you're going to vote that it's really important. the minutiae politics, when you minutiae of politics, when you come to the grand scheme of things is very effective, because lot people have because a lot of people have this that i'm not going this apathy that i'm not going to really affect change it's to really affect change and it's not going help me in any way. not going to help me in any way. so sit back and let so i'm going to sit back and let the chips fall where they may. when the when you feel that within the minutia, own minutia, as you say, of your own community local council, community or your local council, i effect. you engage and i have an effect. you engage and that snowballs into bigger that snowballs into a bigger participation and a bigger engagement comes to engagement when it comes to looking at things across the board. >> so how engaged are you with matters? and you are matters? and when you are engaged, do you feel actually your and that people your view counts and that people listen ? jill barnsley listen to you? jill in barnsley she michelle, i just she says, michelle, can i just chip this margaret chip in? and this margaret thatcher if thatcher conversation, if margaret prime

margaret thatcher was a prime minister today, is minister today, jill is absolutely that absolutely certain that we wouldn't much of the mess wouldn't be in much of the mess that we currently are in. and many people been emailing many people have been emailing in saying about this in as well saying about this whole within whole situation within the channel crossing the channel and people crossing the channel and people crossing the channel that. you channel like that. lots of you are suggesting actually, if margaret still margaret thatcher was still around, still around, none of it would still be happening. would it? how are you so sure that? and how you so sure about that? and how do margaret thatcher do you think margaret thatcher would well? would have fared as well? with the of social media, the advent of social media, every scrutinise every single person scrutinise using inch of what using every single inch of what everyone have using every single inch of what everycae have using every single inch of what everyca difference have using every single inch of what everyca difference to have using every single inch of what everyca difference to her1ave using every single inch of what everyca difference to her we using every single inch of what everyca difference to her or not? made a difference to her or not? your thoughts that? your thoughts on that? i'll bnng your thoughts on that? i'll bring you the conversation bring you into the conversation after break. lots coming up. after the break. lots coming up. i to talk to you about esg. i want to talk to you about esg. do what is? you i want to talk to you about esg. do in what is? you i want to talk to you about esg. do in a what is? you i want to talk to you about esg. do in a couple at is? you i want to talk to you about esg. do in a couple at minutesyou i want to talk to you about esg. do in a couple at minutes ifu will in a couple of minutes if you don't already. i'll see you in two.

hi there. michelle dewberry with you till 7:00. alongside the deputy leader of reform uk, ben habib and the broadcast journalist judita dasilva. welcome back everybody. i've got

to say, there's quite a lot of love for margaret thatcher. so many people absolutely adamant that if she was here and in charge of this country, i said it before the break that we wouldn't have half the mess that we have at the moment. and your challenge you, though, challenge to you, though, continues. media was continues. if social media was around it is now, do you around like it is now, do you think that would influence things not? your things with her or not? your thoughts that ? this story thoughts on that? this story caught lloyds bank caught my eye. lloyds bank right. insurance right. they own the insurance company scottish widows. they have some kind of have now issued some kind of suggested guidance about which where to try and avoid, to try and avoid upsetting people or perhaps be as inclusive as possibly can be. one of these words is widows, which really caught my eye because of the amount stupidity . if you own amount of stupidity. if you own amount of stupidity. if you own a brand literally called scottish widows, then scottish widows, you can't then be saying that the word widows is an offensive. is triggering an offensive. anyway because it is so ludicrous. i need move over ludicrous. i need to move over from part because i want to from that part because i want to talk about the broader issue. so many organisations , they have many organisations, they have what call esg. i'm to what they call esg. i'm going to bnng what they call esg. i'm going to bring a up on the screen

bring a graphic up on the screen in case you're not familiar with what it's a sense what this is, but it's a sense of kind of government. and i would say almost like would say it's almost like a spine. underpins so much of spine. it underpins so much of what does today. what business does today. it stands environmental, social stands for environmental, social and around and governance. and it's around things , how does a business things like, how does a business perform when it comes to their environmental impact? how diverse are their employees , how diverse are their employees, how diverse are their employees, how diverse is their board, and so on and so forth . do you think on and so forth. do you think esg is a force for good and much needed within business or not? ben. >> it is a force we've talked about now three times, and i'm going to talk about it again, the extinguishing of the nation state that is the united kingdom and i can tell and the theme here. i can tell everyone. that's what that everyone. and that's what that is what delivering is partly what esg is delivering . it is the shutting down of the debate that you so correctly advocated for earlier. you know, general democratic debate is to shutting down the debate about whether or not net—zero is the right policy, first of all, so they can force businesses to adopt net zero, through this regulatory requirement. and it is the imposition of prejudice

within business. and it's not just business, by the way. it's government institutions, the armed forces, the police force, educational establishments, all of it requires the promotion of ethnic and other minorities over and above, if and if necessary, to the detriment of the majority. it is the introduction of systemic, institutionalised prejudice in the united kingdom, which is going to damage dreadfully our economy, but also our culture, our cohesion as a society. and it's undermining again, coming back to it, the nafion again, coming back to it, the nation state that is the united kingdom esg has to be ditched. strong wage data . do you agree strong wage data. do you agree with him? >> i don't agree because i think that with esg, when you have them, what you're having an increase in is specialists in esg being introduced into companies to, to kind of imbricate it into how the company if you're company functions. if you're moving in a direction of making your your company's functionality be be optimised in a way that is inclusive of

anyone from any background who has the qualifications occupy has the qualifications to occupy that position. that is a good thing. it is not a when you think of affirmative action in america, the whole point was that students actually have the capability, but based on their origin and background, they do not enough not have a robust enough platform stand to on even, platform to stand to on even, even compete. what you're doing is the playing field. is levelling the playing field. so look at everyone and pick the person with the qualifications, not somebody who has the, the, the deck stacked in their favour. esg is something that's if you're saying you're moving towards a net zero. net zero is a good thing. because when you think of generations that are going after, what are going to come after, what are they going to inherit? >> net zero good thing? >> why is net zero a good thing? >> why is net zero a good thing? >> it's if you think the preservation climate preservation of the climate is not, net isn't not, but net zero isn't equivalent preservation equivalent to the preservation of climate protection towards. >> no. net zero is a government policy which requires the united kingdom to aim for zero carbon emissions by 2050. that is quite different it to wishing to protect the environment, which

all of us wish to do. net zero. you think that net zero is the government's know net? well, it's an entirely arbitrary policy chosen by the government to deliver what it says is the right way to deal with climate change. but we're not allowed to have a debate on it. we're told that by 2050, if we haven't got the united kingdom's carbon emissions down to zero, and there number of steps that there are a number of steps that we to achieve on way , we have to achieve on the way, the climate of this, of this planet going to burn and planet is going to burn up, and we're all going to die. first of all, assumption all, i challenge that assumption that date. that 2050 is this magic date. secondly i challenge robustly that the measures being taken will actually get us to net zero by 2050. | will actually get us to net zero by 2050. i don't think the technology exists to get us there without, i don't think we can we can survive as an economy. on the in order to get to the position that they wish to the position that they wish to get to. and what you don't do is save the planet by destroying the economy. we will all just die off if we don't have a

viable economy. it's as i mentioned at the beginning of this program, it's costing a 60 billion minimum minimum per annum for, for delivering net zero. it is by it is not synonymous with wishing to conserve the environment or protect the planet. that is the government's idea of what the right thing to do is. and we should be at liberty to challenge it. >> but first of all, i would say like you're being negatively hyperbolic the idea of hyperbolic because the idea of having organisations be accountable and be answerable, it's going to be difficult and it's going to be difficult and it's going to be difficult and it's going be very it's going to be very uncomfortable, it's moving uncomfortable, but it's moving in right direction. in the right direction. whichever, makes you whichever, however it makes you feel, destroying our feel, it's destroying our economy. destroying the economy. it isn't destroying the economy. it isn't destroying the economy. through economy. it's going through a teething that's going teething process that's going to be you're moving be difficult while you're moving in direction. the in the right direction. and the fact that at the end of the fact is that at the end of the day, the uk function in day, the uk doesn't function in isolation. countries around the world same world are employing the same kinds because kinds of policies because everybody there everybody recognises that there is needs to be is something that needs to be done and needs to be done soon. before get to, as you've before you get to, as you've said, hothouse is said, hothouse earth, which is the end, quote end of the end, quote unquote, end of the end, quote unquote, end of the you feel that the the world. if you feel that the way it's going now, which the

rest world is on board rest of the world is on board with, and everyone doing it with, and everyone is doing it to within their to varying degrees within their capacity, done. capacity, should not be done. do we things carry we sit back and let things carry on were? on as they were? >> united kingdom is >> well, the united kingdom is actually incredibly good as far as it comes to carbon emissions. yet we are adopting a policy in the teeth of a cost of living crisis which burdens the working class and middle classes much more than it burdens the upper class. who can? absolutely. the wealthy can go through all these net zero policies with ease , but net zero policies with ease, but it's the working and middle classes who pick up the burden. it's the ulez charge, the congestion the green congestion charge, the green taxes on your fuel bill, vat on your fuel bill, 48. >> additionally, i completely agree with that, that the time it's being done is extremely difficult and puts excessive strain on. but the bastardising of the actual policy itself is what i disagree with. so it is the right thing to do. but doing it now is just harder than it would in normal sinner what i would be in normal sinner what i was my break talk was going to after my break talk about shoplifting, i'm not. was going to after my break talk abol'mhoplifting, i'm not. was going to after my break talk aboi'm goingting, i'm not. was going to after my break talk aboi'm going to;, i'm not. was going to after my break talk aboi'm going to stick i'm not. was going to after my break talk aboi'm going to stick withnot. was going to after my break talk

aboi'm going to stick with esg >> i'm going to stick with esg for a bit because so many of you are getting in with this are getting in touch with this and so much more be and there's so much more to be said. anthony says, please, can you right name? you give it its right name? he says, esg marxist says, i call esg marxist communism, that is coming through we through from a lot of people. we just on the just touched on the environmental side of it. one of the sides i want to explore environmental side of it. one of the sthe i want to explore environmental side of it. one of the sthe i wan iso explore environmental side of it. one of the sthe i wan is the plore environmental side of it. one of the sthe i wan is the diversity after the break is the diversity element through element that comes up through and time again. and through time and time again. when it comes to organisations, is thing is this a good thing or not? i'll you in two.

hi there. michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight, john. my viewer says. come on, michelle, read out some more viewers emails and working my butt off trying to get you to read mine out. john, this is very embarrassing to admit, but i've managed myself my managed to lock myself out of my screen normally bring all screen that i normally bring all of guys in. so i'm bringing of you guys in. so i'm bringing as you of you in as as many as you of you in as i can. but tonight i am, by my own stupidity, bit stupidity, a little bit restricted , ben habib juditha da restricted, ben habib juditha da silva alongside me. we

silva remain alongside me. we were talking about esg. so were just talking about esg. so many people are getting in touch saying it's basically some form of kind of cultural marxism. we've just been touching upon the environmental side of it. but another aspect of this, a very key core tenant of it, is the diversity angle, where so many companies, they're desperately trying to tick diversity quotas, opinions and so on. is this a good thing for business or not? >> no, i think it's i think it's awful for business. i run a business which is regulated by the fca, where listed on the stock market. and we're obliged to, you know, comply with their regulations and we have to produce endless reports on the composition of our board, the gender balance that we've got on our board , the gender balance our board, the gender balance we've got on investments we we've got on the investments we make on behalf of funds, the ethnic mix. and i count myself, i can tick that box because i'm half pakistani by origin. i'm entirely british, but half pakistani, so i can tick that

box. but what we're doing is dumbing down the economy by, ejecting meritocracy and choosing people based on the colour of their skin and other, minority. determine tenants over and above what we should be doing, which is choosing people purely on whether they're the best for that job. if we want a prosperous economy, the way you get that is by having really prosperous companies, businesses and so on. and you do that by ensuring that everyone is treated equally. so everyone has an equal opportunity, but only the best get the job for which they're best at. >> so equal opportunity, but not necessarily manufactured equal outcomes. absolutely. is that fair, i agree with certain points that you've made where i do believe a meritocracy is the way any optimised society should function . function. >> but at the same time, what you have to recognise is there are certain vast swathes of people based on ethnicity and cultural heritage and where they

come from don't even get in the room. what this is designed to do is engineer things. i agree it says engineering engineer things to create a level playing field. then the meritocracy kicks in. >> but it's not doing that judyta it depends on how you execute, because i say every company has the autonomy to execute the way they see fit. >> but you have to be seen to be engaging with that policy. the policy exists because it's something ignored something that has been ignored up and i'm like up until now. and i'm like friends, are testament to friends, family are testament to that. where there, for instance, i was in an uber taxi where my driver is a doctor in in bulgaria, but here he has to drive an uber because they say they don't recognise his qualifications. but he was a high earning but he had high earning doctor, but he had to his, his wife to move because his, his wife wants to for to get wants to study for him to get into that , that niveau of into that, that niveau of societal function, needs societal function, he needs something to kind of give him a boost. and this is the kind of thing that would do that, because once you hear him speak, once he actually shows you the qualifications and the actual practical them, practical application of them, you enough. you know, he's good enough. >> a bit strange

>> but that sounds a bit strange to so if someone's got to me. so if someone's got medical qualifications in a different country and respect different country and i respect that, to have that, surely you've got to have some standard in this some level of standard in this country says, actually, country that says, actually, this the expect. this is the thing we expect. this we expect, and this is the thing we expect, and this thing. this is the thing we expect, and thisas thing. this is the thing we expect, and thisas he thing. this is the thing we expect, and thisas he said,g. this is the thing we expect, and thisas he said, he doesn't even >> as he said, he doesn't even he didn't get that he didn't even get that opportunity they opportunity because once they said qualifications said that your qualifications are school in are from a medical school in bulgaria, he can't get in bulgaria, he's he can't get in and cant bulgaria, he's he can't get in and can't at age, in his and he can't at his age, in his late go back to medical late 40s, go back to medical school requalify the uk. school to requalify in the uk. but supporting his but he's he's supporting his wife going to university wife who is going to university here. do you here. but it's. so how do you give an opportunity to give him an opportunity to function the he is capable? >> but it's a very dangerous slope and gone down it far slope and we've gone down it far too where you choose people too far where you choose people based on the of their based on the colour of their skin and that's what we're doing. you know, the armed forces spent £2 million last year trying to get ethnic minorities to fly jets because they didn't want white jet fighter pilots. as far as i'm concerned, what matters is the defence of the united kingdom, and i want the best fighter pilots in the i don't care what colour they are, there could be any colour. i couldn't care

less. and that's the message i want to drive home, is that people have to be treated equally. king people have to be treated equait.. king people have to be treated equait. he king people have to be treated equait. he said king people have to be treated equait. he said we king people have to be treated equait. he said we should king people have to be treated equait. he said we should notng said it. he said we should not be judged by the colour of our skin, but by the content of our character and esg, esg and the s in it. the dei policy is actually championing colour and ethnicity. >> it's his in champion colour. i think that is a reductive way of describing it, which again , of describing it, which again, triggers people into seeing it as a race thing. it's about origin and where different countries from, countries that you come from, you might look that you might happen to look that way, about coming from way, but it's about coming from countries than britain way, but it's about coming from counis es than britain way, but it's about coming from counis what than britain way, but it's about coming from counis what it's:han britain way, but it's about coming from counis what it's engineered to police. >> what to promote foreign people the workplace over people in the workplace over british citizens? no. british citizens? no, no. >> opportunity to >> promote the opportunity to hire the best person for the job and the possibility that the best person might be the best person might not be the person was born. person who was born. >> that's how it's being. >> that's not how it's being. that's being implemented. >> ability >> organisations ability to police see, and i can police itself see, and i can tell you this is conversation. >> i could have carried that on just this one conversation, because is so because i think it is so fundamental so much of what's fundamental to so much of what's going on, whole going on, this whole esg scenario. have to scenario. but i will have to continue that conversation for

another continue it. another day and continue it. i will are will so much of you guys are getting with me getting in touch with me tonight. sorry that i've tonight. i'm so sorry that i've not been able to read out as many, emails as i would have liked. i blame but liked. i blame nothing but my own for that, so own fat fingers for that, so apologies thank you very apologies judita. thank you very much your company tonight. much for your company tonight. and habib, thank for and ben habib, thank you for yours will continue yours too. so i will continue that conversation. so anyone out there got strong opinions that conversation. so anyone out theesg got strong opinions that conversation. so anyone out theesg and got strong opinions that conversation. so anyone out theesg and lot strong opinions that conversation. so anyone out theesg and i can:rong opinions that conversation. so anyone out theesg and i can see] opinions that conversation. so anyone out theesg and i can see s03inions that conversation. so anyone out theesg and i can see so many; that conversation. so anyone out theesg and i can see so many of on esg and i can see so many of you saying that you do tell me why and tell me whether or not you think has been a force you think it has been a force for good or anyway, that's for good or not. anyway, that's all i've time for tonight. all i've got time for tonight. up all i've got time for tonight. up is farage, hosted up next is farage, hosted tonight camilla tominey. so tonight by camilla tominey. so don't i will see don't go anywhere but i will see you tomorrow night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello and welcome to the latest gb news forecast from the met office. rain spreads east dunng met office. rain spreads east during the next 24 hours. breezy along with that rain, but it does turn drier and brighter

later on tuesday . weather fronts later on tuesday. weather fronts responsible attached to this area of low pressure anchored off the west of scotland overnight. and those weather fronts will bring outbreaks of persistent rain to the north and the west initially, before transferring east. the rain does turn more showery. it tends to fragment through the night, but still some of those showers will be quite heavy, particularly in the north and the west. not much rain reaching south—east at rain reaching the south—east at all. in fact, some clear spells remain but the cloud remain here, but with the cloud and the increased breeze, gales for north—west well , it for the far north—west well, it is going to be a mild start to tuesday, albeit a cloudy and a showery run. quite, quite a lot of showers, think around of showers, i think around dunng of showers, i think around during tuesday morning, breaking up the afternoon to hit and up into the afternoon to hit and miss downpours. most likely northern and central england. seeing those downpours with some brightness either way and actually feeling warm in any sunny spells 17 or 18 celsius. but more rain is on the way, spreading up from the southwest on tuesday night and into

wednesday , reaching the wednesday, reaching the grampians and persisting through much of the day across eastern and northern england, wales and the midlands. before eventually turning back to showers. further outbreaks of rain to come on thursday, particularly towards the northwest where it will be windy and cool and then showers to on friday. to come on friday. >> it looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb

news. >> good afternoon. good afternoon. good evening even. and welcome to farage with me. camilla tominey, do not adjust your set. am not nigel farage. your set. i am not nigel farage. where could he be the last time i think i covered for him he was in the jungle, you can have a bet as to where he might be. i'm going to tease you until i actually reveal where he and actually reveal where he is and what he's doing . but he is doing

what he's doing. but he is doing something there will be something big. so there will be big nigel and what he's big news on nigel and what he's doing little in doing a little later in the show. also, course, show. we're also, of course, going be covering the rwanda going to be covering the rwanda vote. expecting that vote vote. we're expecting that vote at 8 it going to be at 8 pm. it was going to be six, eight, it at 8 pm. it was going to be six, six eight, it at 8 pm. it was going to be six, six again.ight, it at 8 pm. it was going to be six, six again. then it's it at 8 pm. it was going to be six, six again. then it's eight was six again. then it's eight again. we're to be again. we're going to be speaking hope speaking to christopher hope chopper house of commons. chopper in the house of commons. he us atmosphere he can give us the atmosphere down and us exactly down there and tell us exactly what's on with that what's going on with that landmark legislation. what's going on with that landmarkwe're legislation. what's going on with that landmarkwe're goinggislation. what's going on with that landmarkwe're goinggislbe on. and also we're going to be debating zero. it the debating net zero. is it the future for a number of different reports, again, saying and warning about the cost to the taxpayer? is it just all we can see a heat pump there on the screen? apparently some people have not very many, may i have them. not very many, may i add. still, people having add. still, people are having far many gas boilers far more many more gas boilers installed than heat pumps. it installed than heat pumps. is it all a lot of hot air? we'll be discussing that a little later on first ever as on the show, but first ever as even on the show, but first ever as ever, here's the news headlines with middlehurst . with polly middlehurst. >> camilla, thank you and good evening to you. well mps are due to vote this evening on ten