think to prison. what do you think to this? is about sentencing this? this is about sentencing guidelines changing, saying that actually birth actually pregnancy and birth should be a mitigating factor. do you agree with that or is it basically trying get off basically trying to get off the hook your wrongdoings? hook for your wrongdoings? also, eco protesters that are being accused of criminal damage can no longer claim a climate emergency justifies their actions . good. it's great to see actions. good. it's great to see some common sense finally prevailed , but do you think it's prevailed, but do you think it's the right move or not? maybe you think that actually this climate emergency justifies any emergency circle justifies any action whatsoever. tell me your thoughts on that. also in today's society, when it comes today's society, when it comes to the upper echelons of society , do you think they should still be closed shops male only members clubs? should they still be a thing where the hobnobbing of the rich and the famous and the powerful goes on and excludes women? your thoughts on that ? yes, indeed. we've got that? yes, indeed. we've got debate on all of that coming up over the next hour. but before we do, let's cross live for

tonight's latest news headlines . tonight's latest news headlines. >> michelle, thank you and good evening to you. well, the former us president donald trump has fired a warning shot at nato, saying it's time to pay in a gb news exclusive, he told nigel farage member countries need to stop taking advantage of the united and he said if he united states. and he said if he wins the us elections, america will only defend those who pay their bills. >> united states should pay its fair share, not everybody else's fair share, not everybody else's fair share. no, no. fair enough. i believe the united states was paying i believe the united states was paying 90% of nato. the cost of nato could be 100. it was the most unfair thing. and don't forget, it's more important to them than it is to us. we have an ocean in between some problems. okay, we have a nice, big, beautiful ocean and it's more important for them. they were taking advantage and they did. they took advantage of us on and they took advantage. >> on if play fair, if they >> on if they play fair, if they start to play fair, america's

there. >> yes, 100. »- >> yes, 100. >> well, you can see that full interview with the former us president donald trump on farage in an hour's time, right here on gb news from 7:00. now, the first person to be convicted of cyberflashing in england and wales has been jailed for 66 weeks. 39 year old nicholas hawks sent unsolicited, explicit photographs to a teenager and a woman. the justice secretary described the offence as a distressing crime which couldn't be normalised, saying the sentence would send a clear message that that behaviour merited severe consequences . merited severe consequences. meanwhile, four people have been hurt and a dog believed to be an xl bully has been shot dead by police in south london. and a warning for viewers watching on television. the following footage contains some distressing content . let's show distressing content. let's show you this clip captured of the attack that happened in battersea just after 10:00 last night. a group of people desperately trying there to stop

the dog with one person tried to throw a blanket over it to stop it attacking. the four victims were taken to hospital for treatment of non—life threatening injuries, and the met police saying a 22 year old man and a 21 year old woman have been arrested on suspicion of being the owners of a dog dangerously out of control . the dangerously out of control. the high street fashion retailer ted baker is set to be put into administration 32 years on from its creation. the chain's owner, authentic, which bought ted baker in 2022, said the business had built up a significant level of debt. ted baker employs almost 1000 staff and runs more than 80 shops across the uk, but the owners declined to say whether any shops or jobs would be lost. the financial problems come after years of turmoil at ted baker, when the business parted ways with its founder, ray kelvin, after allegations of harassment . britain faces a 1979 harassment. britain faces a 1979 moment the shadow chancellor

will say in a speech tonight, as labour seeks to bring about a new chapter in britain's economic history. addressing finance leaders this evening, rachel reeves will liken the challenge awaiting the next government to that faced by margaret thatcher when she took oven margaret thatcher when she took over. she's made it clear she plans to reform the treasury if labour wins the next general election, and the shadow chief secretary to the treasury, darren jones, outlined the plan . darren jones, outlined the plan. >> we are on the cusp of an opportunity in this country, an opportunity in this country, an opportunity for a decade of national renewal where we can get growth back into our economy, make people better off and start to turn the page. on 14 years of failure from the conservatives if labour to conservatives if labour is to win the election later this yean win the election later this year, will be the worst year, it will be the worst fiscal inheritance that any party's since the second party's had since the second world war. and that's why we talk a of national talk about a decade of national renewal. there will some renewal. there will be some things immediately, things we can do immediately, and are and public services are obviously one our priorities . obviously one of our priorities. >> the minister of wales >> the first minister of wales has an emotional has delivered an emotional resignation speech after facing

questions in the senate for the final time today. he said he's now looking forward to life on the backbenches. mark drakeford, who is stepping down after five years in the job, was quite emotional as he talked about how difficult last year has been i >> -- >> he personally the last 12 months have been the hardest and the saddest of my life and people will not see beyond the chamber those small acts of kindness that happen every day from people in every part of this chamber that help someone to get through those very, very difficult times. >> mark drakeford, speaking earlier on today, now the prince of wales has been visiting housing initiatives in yorkshire today promoting his homelessness project at the future. king spoke to landlords in sheffield as well as the local authority there, to see how his homewards venture could help ease pressure on councils. the outing comes

after the sun published pictures and a video of prince william with his wife, the princess of wales, at a farm shop in windsor at the weekend. it follows weeks of social media speculation surrounding the health and even the whereabouts of princess catherine. those are the top stories for the very latest , stories for the very latest, sign up to gb news alerts. scan that qr code on your screen right now or go to gbnews.com/alerts . gbnews.com/alerts. >> thank you very much for that. polly middlehurst. i am michelle jubin. i'm with you till 7:00 tonight. what did you think to that last story by the way, about william and kate? do you care about this story? are you into it? are you sitting there analysing the pictures, wondering what on earth's going on? or are you just sitting there going pack it in your thoughts and that determine thoughts and that will determine whether we touch on that whether or not we touch on that story a little later on on story a little bit later on on the program or not. alongside me till panel, the till seven, my panel, the parliamentary sketchwriter for the the former labour

and the former labour adviser mike . good evening, mike buckley. good evening, gentlemen to both of you. michel, you know the drill as well, don't you? one of my viewers got in touch yesterday and said, can tell me and said, can you tell me shelter? that we shelter? stop saying that we know drill yes, we know the drill because yes, we do, but yes, but what about any new viewer just tuned in new viewer that's just tuned in tonight? might not know the tonight? they might not know the drill, ever stop drill, so i can't ever stop saying just in case. because saying it just in case. because you drill. it's not you do know the drill. it's not just about us three, it is about you guys at home as well. what is mind tonight, is on your mind tonight, especially, that princess is on your mind tonight, es walesy, that princess is on your mind tonight, es wales there? that princess is on your mind tonight, es wales there? d01at princess is on your mind tonight, es wales there? do you rincess of wales there? do you care about that story or not? you get which queen is snoring . i can't which queen is snoring. i can't i quite work out whether i can't quite work out whether or not that's because he doesn't care about the prince of wales or listen to me for the last one minute. >> nothing against princess. i just find that story. i mean, it's such a worn out story now. >> well, the viewers will be the judge. we might. yes, we might. come on to it. we might not. you will be judge at will be the judge of that at home. at gb news. com. home. gb views at gb news. com. or can tweet or text me at or you can tweet or text me at gb news. i'm going to try and

keep quinson awake. coming home. coming tonight, shadow coming up tonight, shadow chancellor reeves, she is chancellor rachel reeves, she is giving a speech reckons that giving a speech she reckons that britain facing a 1979 moment britain is facing a 1979 moment all over again, quicker than i don't know what, tim. my viewers said . omg michelle, i would love said. omg michelle, i would love to have that 1979 experience again. a ford capri three litre and a new date every night, he says , tim, you sound like quite says, tim, you sound like quite a smoochie, but i don't think she means that. quite frankly, i think she was talking economically , it's got me economically, it's got me wondering, do you think this country is as bad as it perhaps was then? is it worse or better? your thoughts on that? >> quentin leonard cohen records. that's what i was listening to, was 1979. i remember eating a lot of that election as well. i was a twinkle. you were a twinkle. i you still are a twinkle in some of us, opinion. but no, the poor old rachel reeves, she's desperate for something to say because she's boxed in by, constrained thoughts on spending and tax and all that. so poor old sausage . she's. she's old sausage. she's. she's looking for something to say. she's come out with this 1979

line. it's i looked before i came here. i looked at a 1979 hansard for treasury questions. >> did you? you live the high life, don't you? rock and roll, rock and roll and the comparisons just don't work. >> although some ways we're >> although in some ways we're worse now in 1980 than we were in 79. the national debt is much worse now. it's 85. now it was 55% of, of gdp in those days. but in other ways, this is this is nonsense. and if you look at everything from sort of top rate of tax inflation, inflation, interest rates, it just doesn't bear any sort of comparison, i'm afraid. no. >> do you agree with that, mike? >> do you agree with that, mike? >> well, i mean, everybody's misunderstanding this. she isn't saying the economy in saying that the economy is in a similar state now to where it was in 1979. what she's saying similar state now to where it was that�*79. what she's saying similar state now to where it was that 1979/hat she's saying similar state now to where it was that 1979 was she's saying similar state now to where it was that 1979 was ale's saying similar state now to where it was that 1979 was a sea saying similar state now to where it was that 1979 was a sea change in that our economy was in the way that our economy was run, you know, from a, you know, fairly centre left model mrs. fairly centre left model to mrs. thatcher's, you know, very much right market model. thatcher's, you know, very much right rachel market model. thatcher's, you know, very much right rachel sayingt model. thatcher's, you know, very much right rachel sayingt nthatl. what rachel is saying is that when into power when labour gets into power after next election, there after the next election, there will a sea in the way will be a sea change in the way that our economy is run. so

she's making that point, not making point that economy making a point that our economy is the place. yeah. the is in the same place. yeah. the will, the will how so, because we will labour will introduce rather labour will rather not me, labour will introduce that introduce a set of policies that will the economy. we'll introduce a set of policies that willthe the economy. we'll introduce a set of policies that willthe economy economy. we'll introduce a set of policies that willthe economy growing, we'll introduce a set of policies that willthe economy growing, which get the economy growing, which it certainly not doing it certainly has not been doing for last years. for the last 14 years. >> like the headliner >> what's like the big headliner will investment parts of will be investment in parts of the that haven't seen the economy that haven't seen investment long time. investment for a long time. >> there'll they'll >> there'll be free. they'll free up planning controls so we'll able to build housing we'll be able to build housing in this country, which is desperately and so they desperately needed. and so they will green will be able to invest in green infrastructure, which is desperately needed. infrastructure, which is desso ately needed. infrastructure, which is desso do ly needed. infrastructure, which is desso do ly need> hear anything in >> i don't hear anything in that. with great respect to mike, that's convincing. mike, that's really convincing. it's to radical. every it's going to be radical. every party we're going to change party says we're going to change the system. in the planning system. it's in every they all talk every manifesto. they all talk about stuff. well, about green stuff. well, actually of that actually a lot of that has happened in some happened rather too much in some of but, just of our opinion. but, i just don't think reeves and

don't think that, reeves and starmer are going to, if they get get in, are going to have the room for any this. the wiggle room for any of this. it's very to see where the it's very hard to see where the investment or spending, it's investment or spending, as it's called, going to come from . called, is going to come from. >> will argue that >> well, she will argue that we're going see decade of we're going to see a decade of national renewal. >> we have to see a decade of action. i mean, what we've had in economy, an economy in economy, we've had an economy that really grown in the that hasn't really grown in the last 14 years the last 14 years since the conservatives came to power. our wages gone up since the wages haven't gone up since the since financial crisis, since the financial crisis, which this is a which was in 2008. this is a result of successive government decisions, result of successive government dec fact s, result of successive government dec fact that they just the the fact that they just suck the life out the economy. a life out of the economy. a brexit deal which has harmed our economy. the economy. and then the last couple liz couple of years, you had liz truss with mini—budget, truss with the mini—budget, which disaster. of which has caused a disaster. of course. and rishi sunak's been there 18 he's there for about 18 months. he's done fix the done nothing to fix the situation. desperately need situation. we desperately need a new model this new economic model in this country by the way. >> a new party in >> we need a new party in control is so broken is because the whole economy was shut down for long period time, for a long period of time, literally ground a halt literally ground to a halt because an illness, and because of an illness, and labour were championing longer lockdowns earlier lockdowns, perhaps earlier lockdowns, perhaps earlier

lockdowns, lockdowns , lockdowns, deeper lockdowns, again with no idea, no consequential thought in terms of if i do this, what will be the impact on what? anything. whether it's when labour was last in power, the economy grew from when we got in in 1997, right up to 2008, in the global crisis. fascinating. but you're not my question. not answering my question. what's talking about? what's i'm talking about? that what talking about? of what i'm talking about? one of the that we're in the the reasons that we're in the absolute mess economically, that we of we are, is that politicians of all would desperate to all stripes would desperate to close down this economy during covid, that it was an act of covid, and that it was an act of self—harm economically. >> i mean, in fairness to the government, the current government, the current government, think they got government, i think they got lots things in the lots of things wrong in the pandemic. what they got right was that they did put us into lockdown to, which lockdown when they had to, which they especially they had to especially pre—vaccine prevent pre—vaccine to prevent many, many people dying. i'm many more people dying. and i'm glad did that. glad that they did that. >> i thought even when boris >> but i thought even when boris was trying to bring us out of that, one of that, it was labour was one of the voices in saying, the loud voices in saying, actually, be actually, no, we shouldn't be lifting that. at this stage, no. >> labour largely supported government actually government action and actually government action and actually goverweznt into lockdown and when we went into lockdown and when we went into lockdown and when out, actually. when we came out, actually. >> that's not entirely true.

>> so that's not entirely true. >> so that's not entirely true. >> not recollection. >> it's not my recollection. >> it's not my recollection. >> it's not my recollection. >> it's largely true. >> it's largely true. >> keir starmer was saying, no, this all being, released, this is all being, released, stopped and i mean, stopped too early and i mean, i think, i mean, we'll have to go back through the records, but but largely, i think labour supported government timing on that. >> i mean, to be honest, at the time i was one of the people thinking have stayed thinking we should have stayed in and you in lockdown longer and you regret now, when you look regret that now, when you look back see the damage that back and you see the damage that was done? no, don't, i mean, was done? no, i don't, i mean, i think you, you, you know, as a country, we're a rock and hard country, we're a rock and a hard place. if we we hadn't gone place. if we if we hadn't gone into we'd out into lockdown, if we'd come out early people would early and many more people would have died. of course, we couldn't choice. but couldn't make that choice. but granted, resulted granted, lockdowns have resulted in mean, most in damage. i mean, i'm most concerned about the damage was done particularly young done to kids, particularly young kids kids, which kids and pre—school kids, which is a long to undo. >> so let me ask you this then. right. so if labour are the answer everything, there's right. so if labour are the ansvfantasticallyiing, there's right. so if labour are the ansvfantastically exciting re's this fantastically exciting innovation and all this investment and this renewal and it's be so exciting. we it's going to be so exciting. we probably sleep night probably won't sleep the night before whatever. probably won't sleep the night before i'm itever. probably won't sleep the night before i'miteveryou're so >> well, i'm glad you're so excited about it. >> is labour wales then? not >> why is labour wales then? not this beacon of this shining beacon of absolutely everything in

absolutely everything being in a perfect labour perfect state because labour have, quite a quite have, you know, quite a quite a lot of opportunity there to be influential the of influential and all the rest of it. shining it. so why isn't that a shining star then? >> mean, because what? well, >> i mean, because what? well, i think the worst government is in a good job. mark a very good job. i think mark has done good job. but of has done a very good job. but of course, have work within course, they have to work within a united in which labour a united kingdom in which labour isn't power. once labour a united kingdom in which labour isn't power'er. once labour a united kingdom in which labour isn't power'er.westminster. ioui’ is in power in westminster. >> many of us >> so, for example, many of us will in with me in will get in touch with me in wales they'll talk about, wales and they'll talk about, for the welsh nhs as for example, the welsh nhs as one examples. for example, the welsh nhs as one they've examples. for example, the welsh nhs as onethey've had|ples. for example, the welsh nhs as onethey've had power devolved to >> they've had power devolved to them, but they had extra them, but they haven't had extra money them. so money devolved to them. so that's the limitation. so the wales great wales government can have great policies. wales government can have great policthought they did have some >> i thought they did have some elements of decisions elements of tax decisions devolved to them. >> think they've got any >> i don't think they've got any more tax raising powers than, say, council has. say, a local council has. >> so you're >> i thought they did. so you're saying actually you're saying that labour. that the reason that labour. sorry not a beacon sorry that wales is not a beacon is they don't have is because they don't have enough money, they don't have the raising say that the tax raising powers say that scotland has. >> scotland can vary >> so in scotland they can vary income rate. in wales they income tax rate. in wales they don't that got don't that they've got effectively. but effectively. yes i do but they've, very they've, they've had very limited because of limited funds because of austerity which has in austerity which has been in place years. place for 14 years. >> does this wash you >> so does this wash with you then, that whole notion

then, that this whole notion that only labour have that if only labour have got more everything going more money, everything is going to of some kind of, to be kind of some kind of, i don't know what most noticeable thing. >> i live near wales. do you on the welsh border and, the welsh english border and, it's the only border that the welsh have actually, the, the thing you noticed most about it is the 20 mile an hour speed limit, and also the fact in wales they're much more liberal about buying coal. you're about buying coal. so you're allowed still in allowed to buy coal still in wales, it's the speed limits wales, but it's the speed limits that drive me nuts. >> well, they became >> well, they they became enforced didn't they. >> yesterday had to said. by >> yesterday had to be said. by the drakeford earlier, the way mark drakeford earlier, he controversial figure. i wouldn't agree his politics wouldn't agree with his politics at but i thought was at all, but i thought there was rather something rather noble about moving, about him and rather moving, seeing his wife seeing him doing that. his wife died and, you know, seeing him doing that. his wife died off and, you know, seeing him doing that. his wife died off to and, you know, seeing him doing that. his wife died off to marki, you know, seeing him doing that. his wife died off to mark drakeford w, seeing him doing that. his wife died off to mark drakeford as hats off to mark drakeford as he, as he retires from public life, even though some of the things he's done may not be great. >> i think he's a very decent man , actually. yeah. man, actually. yeah. >> and because we did we showed that clip, didn't we, where he was and was getting very emotional. and obviously when obviously you don't hear us when the are running, but the headlines are running, but you in didn't you? you actually came in didn't you? and know, getting and said, you know, he's getting that emotional because perhaps

of what happened his wife. yeah. >> 9 mean, you 9 mean, you forget, >> and also, i mean, you forget, michelle, pressure that michelle, the pressure that these politicians are i know we all love complain about all love to complain about politicians and i'm a sketchwriter, for goodness sake. i'm always chucking pies at them. actually them. but, actually extraordinary and when extraordinary pressure. and when they down the there must be they step down the there must be just a, a sort of a release of adrenaline or stopping of adrenaline or stopping of adrenaline something but that they wanted that does it does they wanted that does it does they wanted that pressure. >> they wanted that kudos. they wanted that power. they wanted that still that platform. but it still comes at a cost, you know, and particularly when have particularly when you have a family tragedy, choice. family tragedy, it is a choice. >> choice. but i think he's he's served for years. think >> choice. but i think he's he's servedone years. think >> choice. but i think he's he's servedone very,ars. think >> choice. but i think he's he's servedone very, very think >> choice. but i think he's he's servedone very, very good; >> choice. but i think he's he's servedone very, very good job. >> choice. but i think he's he's servhe'se very, very good job. >> choice. but i think he's he's servhe's standingvery good job. >> choice. but i think he's he's servhe's standingvery g(and ob. >> choice. but i think he's he's servhe's standingvery g(and as but he's standing down. and as was earlier, he did have was shown earlier, he did have support sides the support from all sides of the house, including conservatives support from all sides of the hou others. jding conservatives support from all sides of the hou others. yeah,conservatives support from all sides of the hou others. yeah,c(just vatives and others. yeah, i just don't really buy whole oh yeah, really buy this whole oh yeah, the pressure that they're under because forces them. because no one forces them. >> no, >> you're a tough old bean. no, i many people, so many >> you're a tough old bean. no, i go many people, so many >> you're a tough old bean. no, i go intov people, so many >> you're a tough old bean. no, i go into politics , so many >> you're a tough old bean. no, i go into politics becausey people go into politics because they are, egotistical. people go into politics because the aare, egotistical. people go into politics because thea lot egotistical. people go into politics because the a lot of otistical. people go into politics because thea lot of them:al. people go into politics because thea lot of them get drunk on >> a lot of them get drunk on their own self—importance. >> i don't think anybody would describe mark drakeford that way. >> i'm talking more generally in

terms politicians. not terms of politicians. i'm not saying have sympathy saying i don't have sympathy for him individual. him as an individual. i'm talking i don't talking more broadly. i don't look when look at any politician when they're go, oh they're retiring and go, oh gosh, the pressure gosh, yeah, but the pressure must so difficult. must have been so difficult. i don't a hard nosed you don't maybe i'm a hard nosed you are maybe hard nosed nurse notpla but to you make your notpla but to me you make your choice. get paid well for choice. you get paid well for what you you a huge what you do. you get a huge amount don't know, power amount of, i don't know, power for i hate that phrase. for what i hate that phrase. i hate the notion that these people seem to think they've got all this kind of power over everybody, but to some, some degree, do. degree, they do. >> let them to improve >> well, we let them to improve people's lives. and mark grapefruit down grapefruit can step down believing knowing that has. >> you're tough norwegian beef >> and i wish wish that >> and i wish that i wish that were case for all were the case for all politicians. it isn't , politicians. sadly, it isn't, which why it's important to which is why it's important to you later this you vote for later this year. >> well, and it'll be >> well, yeah. and it'll be interesting, actually. you interesting, actually. do you think, perhaps think, labour will perhaps galvanise that galvanise people that are disenfranchised, disconnected with politics at the moment? >> i mean, who knows what turnout will be in the next election when you look at the polls and certainly there's i mean, was poll yesterday mean, there was a poll yesterday when were when twice as many people were saying going to vote saying they were going to vote

labour were going to vote labour as were going to vote conservatives. so a conservatives. so there's a massive terms massive gulf there. but in terms of what will be, i don't of what turnout will be, i don't know. i mean, the things know. i mean, one of the things that concerned about is just that i'm concerned about is just how dropped a how trust have dropped off a cliff, in large part because of bofis cliff, in large part because of boris being an boris johnson being such an inveterate boris johnson being such an invetepeople have, over the last think people have, over the last 14 become quite 14 years, become quite disillusioned politics disillusioned with politics because much because things have got so much worse terms public worse in terms of public services, of income, services, in terms of income, and in terms of just people's general well—being. do you think bofis general well—being. do you think boris to do with. >> well, they had they will have. >> i believe they did, >> i mean, i believe they did, but don't think they as but i don't think they had as much with public much to do with the public disengagement think. funnily enough, i think the >> funnily enough, i think the fact got booted out, fact that boris got booted out, people for him and then people voted for him and then see that the person voted see that the person they voted for longer prime minister. for is no longer prime minister. i that's a very i think that's been a very i mean, you can't argue that partygate a huge partygate wasn't just a huge shock nation, fact shock to the nation, the fact that of us were doing that the rest of us were doing our bit in the pandemic, funnily enough. >> meanwhile, he was having parties. mean , that was huge. parties. i mean, that was huge. and course the and that was of course the number one for him going. number one reason for him going. >> going to disagree with >> i'm going to disagree with you because actually don't you because actually i don't think such an on think it was such an issue on the that, well, i had it. >> i mean, it.- >> i mean, i it. >> i mean, i knock it.— >> i mean, i knock on

it. >> i mean, i knock on doors for the labour and people talk the labour party and people talk to about a to me about it a lot. >> yeah, well, i think people are they don't now, are more they don't now, admittedly, to admittedly, want a shock to me. >> thought all a bit >> i thought it was all a bit pathetic that people were having work and were work meetings and people were desperately around, desperately scrabbling around, taking from office taking pictures from office meetings taking pictures from office meetithey they're work close they they're having work meetings, to meetings, desperately trying to make out when work make out when those work meetings involve going to meetings don't involve going to tesco , filling tesco with a suitcase, filling it alcohol, someone had it up with alcohol, someone had the bit of the audacity to bring a bit of cake and celebrate happy birthday! at end, people had birthday! at the end, people had a thought was a meltdown. i thought it was a bit a little bit pathetic, really a little bit pathetic, really a little bit but, many of bit embarrassing. but, many of you touch and say you will get in touch and say but that michelle is because you didn't during didn't lose anyone during the pandemic. if had lost pandemic. and if i had have lost someone, you tell me someone, many of you tell me then would feel then perhaps i would feel differently. did differently. i did you do did you? and feel you? and did you feel differently about partygate as result? >> i agreed with you about it. >> i agreed with you about it. >> you? well, there you go, >> did you? well, there you go, many opinions, many different opinions, i'm sure, there. in sure, out there. get in touch and thoughts. and tell me your thoughts. gb views coming up views a gbnews.com coming up after the break if you're pregnant and i mean actually pregnant. not a fella trying to pretend to be, in order to be let off. do you think you should be given a lesser sentence? if

you have to go to prison or not? your thoughts? i'll see you in two.

>> if they know something about the drugs. and if he lied, i'll have to take appropriate action. okay let's get out of here. i got to go back to work. >> join me tonight at 7:00 on gb news. the full interview with donald j. trump. and he makes it absolutely clear he's running. he believes that he is going to win . this is an interview you win. this is an interview you will not want to miss. britain's questions answered tonight exclusively on gb news at 7:00. join me . join me. >> hello there. i'm michelle dewberry keeping you company till 7:00 tonight. parliamentary sketchwriter for the daily mail. quentin letts and the former labour adviser mike buckley is alongside me. and it's hot in here. everybody and it's not

just because of the spicy stories that some of you guys are telling me at home. 1979, seem to be quite an interesting year for a few of you. there was a nice story there that one of you said that you met a lady and you said that you met a lady and you went on, to get married. and you've been married ever since . you've been married ever since. i like that story. that's nice, i like that story. that's nice, i asked you, didn't i, about, william and kate. this whole ridiculousness that's been going on, i've got to say, divided opinion. there are so many of you getting in touch saying, please, please don't talk about this nonsense to other people, though. people though. other people are actually are interested. actually they are interested. they are engaged. in case you've been asleep, this story dominated so many the front dominated so many of the front pages did you see it? pages today. did you see it? it's , it was on the it's something, it was on the front of of them, actually, front of most of them, actually, in or another. in one form or another. >> the princess of wales. >> i find this really ridiculous. quentin. yes. this obsession is obsessed . obsession is obsessed. ridiculous. what's the matter with people? >> i don't know, i would make such a bad newspaper editor because i've got no interest in the story at all and couldn't

get worked it. but that get worked up about it. but that is am merely a is why i am merely a sketchwriter and not are you one of our great organs. >> sorry. >> sorry. >> i mean, i'm glad she's okay, but basically thought with but basically my thought with this leave her alone. this has been leave her alone. she's had an operation and she's recovering. leave her be. recovering. just leave her be. i know you know. i don't understand why this is in this. this of her. this hounding of her. >> you cared about the >> you know, you cared about the photograph well, photograph being tweaked. well, exactly. photograph being tweaked. well, exa i :ly. it's common. you >> i mean, it's common. you know, common back in know, it was common back in elizabethan time. it's. never mind mr holbein mind now, you know, mr holbein to bit of. well, exactly. i to do a bit of. well, exactly. i mean, this has happening mean, this has been happening for people for centuries. people >> i don't know anyone. i mean, all you've got do. i said all you've got to do. i said this other day, if you go this the other day, if you go on, example, dating site, on, for example, a dating site, what they what people pretend they look like like what people pretend they look likreality like what people pretend they look likreality is like what people pretend they look likreality is two like what people pretend they look likreality is two different like in reality is two different things. when you go on newspaper by—lines, i mean. >> they shouldn't >> exactly. they shouldn't have done really the done it, but it really isn't the big that it's been made out big deal that it's been made out to anyway. she's fine. we've to be. anyway. she's fine. we've seen her walking. >> . >> yeah. >> yeah. >> it's very, you know, it's good. >> there was a split. i said to the viewers, they can decide there was a split opinion. what they decided. some people are not some them not interested. some of them are. it was. well,

are. is it 48, 52? it was. well, let's hope not. >> not counted it all, but >> i've not counted it all, but ihope >> i've not counted it all, but i hope not 48, 52. i hope it's not 48, 52. >> we're going to rerun this >> we're not going to rerun this referendum on here. we've given it that'll do. now, i do it a nod. that'll do. now, i do think it's a little bit pathetic. she's fine. pathetic. and she's fine. somebody. sitting somebody. yeah. who's sitting there with your there literally with your magnifying glass out trying to find, there a bit of a find, is there a bit of a pattern here or there that's perhaps wrong? is there something , editor? bit of something, editor? get a bit of a don't mean to be mean a life. i don't mean to be mean or anything, but come on. i thought was supposed be thought she was supposed to be out till easter, out of duty anyway till easter, it's not even easter yet. don't wish away, everybody. wish time away, everybody. anyway i hope she well, anyway i hope she is. well, she'll draw line and move on. she'll draw a line and move on. yes, that's what i say. let's talk about pregnant women, shall we? because pregnant women and women just given birth women that have just given birth are going to have potentially their sentences reduced for most type of crime if they find themselves having to go to prison . this is all because prison. this is all because pregnancy, childbirth and postnatal care will now be determined as mitigating factors, this will be here in england and wales , and it'll england and wales, and it'll come into effect at the start of april. and i wonder what you

make to this now. someone's been in touch, wants to remain anonymous, so shall honour anonymous, so i shall honour that. i think their comment that. but i think their comment is so read is interesting. so let me read it out. this person says i work as a medic a prison as a medic in a female prison with and baby unit with a mother and baby unit on site. registered site. i'm a registered paramedic, this person says that pregnancy , in their view, should pregnancy, in their view, should absolutely not lead to a reduction in sentence because crime is crime, no matter what, they should be treated the same as everybody else. and they go on say there's health care on on to say there's health care on site and support mums. site and support for the mums. there midwives . there is even on site midwives. there is even on site midwives. the care and support they get is second to none and they're on and they're forth. what this person says is reducing sentence is will essentially just become an opportunity for an easy way out of being punished for criminal what do you criminal actions. what do you make an interesting point of view? >> but i feel i disagree with that. i'm surprised that there isn't already a regime where, mothers to be are given lighter sentences. it depends entirely, in my view, on the offence. if the offence is one of violence

or murder, for instance , you or murder, for instance, you couldn't possibly give someone a reduced sentence because with those sort of crimes. but if it's other offences, then i strikes me. this sounds a rather humane thing and i to me i slightly recoil from the idea of, someone giving birth in prison. it seems to me wrong, but perhaps i'm just being a wet liberal. >> mike, i mean, i didn't know the stats on this, actually. >> i was just reading about it, and women in prison are seven times more likely than women and not prison to have a not in prison to have a stillbirth. and they're twice as likely to give birth prematurely, which puts both mothers and babies at risk. so given those numbers , this should given those numbers, this should absolutely have been in place donkey's ago. i'm donkey's years ago. and i'm very, that it's being very, very glad that it's being put into position. now. clearly, there to punish there are other ways to punish somebody a crime, but what somebody for a crime, but what is absolutely is that the is absolutely true is that the mother may have committed a crime. and crime. the baby has not, and anything baby at anything that puts the baby at risk needs to be done away with, including, necessary, including, if necessary, the mother being in prison. including, if necessary, the moobviously,in prison. including, if necessary, the moobviously, the rison. including, if necessary, the moobviously, the argument that >> obviously, the argument that

is maybe the baby is the argument maybe the baby would be better looked after, which is the eyewitness which this is the eyewitness account we just heard. >> well, clearly that's for social services decide . social services to decide. >> better looked >> yeah. might be better looked after prison. after in prison. >> if the baby isn't >> i mean if the baby isn't going be well for, going to be well cared for, there's provision in place through that through social services for that to be addressed. >> do state the >> i do want to state the obvious point that there is a really way, to have really obvious way, to not have women giving in prisons women giving birth in prisons and rest of it. and that and all the rest of it. and that is for women not actually is for those women not actually to committing crimes the to be committing crimes in the first obviously, saw first place. obviously, i saw the same stats that saw the same stats that you saw mike, pricked my eyes and mike, and it pricked my eyes and ears as well when heard ears up as well when i heard those kind stats, because those kind of stats, because they alarming. what they are really alarming. what was about seven times was it again? about seven times more have stillbirth more likely to have a stillbirth or something that. more likely to have a stillbirth or stwiceiing that. more likely to have a stillbirth or stwice as] that. more likely to have a stillbirth or stwice as likelythat. more likely to have a stillbirth or stwice as likely for:. premature? >> yeah, times more >> yeah, seven times more likely. stillbirth likely. likely. stillbirth twice likely. but don't know if but then and i don't know if i was being harsh, i was thinking, but then and i don't know if i was beingmuchi, i was thinking, but then and i don't know if i was beingmuch of was thinking, but then and i don't know if i was beingmuch of that thinking, but then and i don't know if i was beingmuch of that th aking, well how much of that is a reflection the they're reflection of the fact they're in prison? i know in in prison? because i know in male a lot of the male prisons a lot of the population, for example , take population, for example, take drugs, if there's female drugs, and if there's a female prisoner taking and prisoner that's taking drugs and happens well, happens to be pregnant, well, then going to then of course you're going to be yourself to greater be exposing yourself to greater risk of stillbirth or stillbirth and the of it. so for

and all the rest of it. so for me, saw those stats, but i me, i saw those stats, but i didn't really conclude anything from than were from them other than they were sad. i would want a bit sad. and i would want it a bit more information what else? >> well, on there, the >> well, going on there, the piece i've read, probably the same piece you've same as piece you've read, doesn't as to doesn't go into detail as to why, nonetheless that is why, but nonetheless that is the outcome. we're either outcome. so we're either something done something has to be done in prison make not the prison to make that not the case, those women be case, or those women need to be not prison. whatever not in prison. but whatever happens if you're going happens now that if you're going to you're a lady and to be if you're a lady and you're coming up a court you're coming up for a court case, might and case, you might go and get yourself duff. case, you might go and get youwell, duff. case, you might go and get youwell, that's duff. case, you might go and get youwell, that's exactly the >> well, that's exactly the point one my viewers, point that one of my viewers, michael, makes. says, what's michael, makes. he says, what's going next is any going to happen next is that any would be criminal try would be criminal if they try and themselves pregnant in and get themselves pregnant in advance crime, perhaps, advance of their crime, perhaps, or gap sentencing, or in the gap before sentencing, then they'll then they know they'll get a lesser says. i'm lesser sentence. ian says. i'm a retired officer. i've retired prison officer. i've worked and female worked in male and female establishments well establishments and it's a well known says , that female known fact, he says, that female criminals are found guilty of comparable to men already comparable crimes to men already have reduced sentences given by the courts, he says. if anything, we need to be going the other way and female sentences need to be increased in line to fall, as a comparable

to men. what, all this prisoner cell block h well , we already cell block h well, we already have a massive prison population compared to most other nations that are comparable to us. >> let me ask. we already have way too many people in prison. adding to that, particularly women, a unaffordable b, women, is a unaffordable b, there prison space there isn't enough prison space and probably wouldn't lead to and c probably wouldn't lead to any any beneficial outcomes in terms though, you said terms of on you though, you said you've knocked back on what you've just knocked back on what michael terms of michael said there in terms of equalising sentences men equalising sentences between men and must confess, i've not >> i must confess, i've not studied hugely whether or not there is disparity, so i'll there is this disparity, so i'll take on his word. he's take him on his word. he's worked in that profession. he suggests is why would suggests that there is why would you if that you suggest that? if that was the why shouldn't the case, why shouldn't those sentences be equalised? why should get different should a woman get a different sentence man for sentence to a man for a comparable crime? >> probably sexist >> because i'm probably sexist and just am more suspicious of and i just am more suspicious of blokes. and i don't know, it's probably very wrong of me, but, i am inclined tend to be softer on female suspects. i guess . on female suspects. i guess. >> you see, i find that fascinating because, i mean, i

haven't thought it through properly, but that would be my honest answer. as a woman, you can't have, on the hand can't have, on the one hand start and begging start crying and begging everyone when everyone for equality when it suits and on the other suits you, and then on the other hand, start saying, whoa, there, you female, so you know, i'm a female, so therefore me better and, therefore treat me better and, you know, more loosely and softer. >> you can make that argument. i can't , do you think, though, can't, do you think, though, that all this. actually, that all of this. actually, we've ourselves in a real we've got ourselves in a real pickle in this country in terms of prison population and prison capacity? got any capacity? we've barely got any capacity? we've barely got any capacity already had capacity now. we've already had that conversation of that conversation a couple of weeks when we weeks ago or recently when we was about we're going to was talking about we're going to release prisoners to release now prisoners early to free up space. why isn't all this kind of stuff about how can we reduce sentences, just tinkering around the edges to free capacity? don't we just free up capacity? don't we just need prisons? need to build more prisons? we probably do, because the population do population is going up. do you think need more prisons? >> no we don't. we need to question why put so many more question why we put so many more people prison than comparable people in prison than comparable nations. there nations. why do you think there are other ways? are other are other ways? there are other ways with criminality ways to deal with criminality than more ways to deal with criminality than in more ways to deal with criminality than in prison, more ways to deal with criminality than in prison, nthe people in prison, like at the taxpayers for extended taxpayers expense for extended penods taxpayers expense for extended periods what? i'm periods of time. like what? i'm not an expert in this

not i'm not an expert in this area, but clearly are doing area, but clearly we are doing something wrong a country. if something wrong as a country. if we're many more something wrong as a country. if we're in many more something wrong as a country. if we're in prison many more something wrong as a country. if we're in prison many say,a people in prison than, say, france, germany, other nations that put enough that are like us, put enough people prison, i think people in prison, i think there's too many people that know can wander know that they can wander around doing all kinds things, doing all kinds of things, either or to either to other people or to people's properties to people's properties or to people's properties or to people's possessions, they people's possessions, and they know that the worse that they're going to get is a slap on the wrist . well, we need to look at wrist. well, we need to look at why are committing crime why people are committing crime in you know, in the first place. you know, what are causes of that? and what are the causes of that? and then need at other then we need to look at other ways of punishing people that are sentences. are not custodial sentences. i mean, know, one the mean, as we know, one of the problems is you put problems is that you put somebody and, you somebody in prison and, you know, many, many criminals say, or criminals learned know, many, many criminals say, or to 'iminals learned know, many, many criminals say, or toiminicriminal learned know, many, many criminals say, or toiminicriminal properly know, many, many criminals say, or to 'imin('criminal properly in how to be a criminal properly in prison, come prison, and then they come out and something because of and do something else because of the people that they're spending time isn't good time with that isn't good for them, isn't good for them, that isn't good for society i think can society either. i think you can get intellectual this. >> e- e reasons el— this. >> crime reasons people this. >> crime is�*asons people e crime is it'sns people e crime is it's easier3le e crime is it's easier to commit crime is it's easier to go nick than to do a job. go on the nick than to do a job. >> and this whole notion now i see all the time. i shared see it all the time. i shared this video the other day of this fella. think can fella. it was in i think i can say it was, was in a

say where it was, it was in a marks spencers store and he marks and spencers store and he had not one but two bags, ladies and gents and he was filling them, swiping them, he was swiping the up—market his bag. them, he was swiping the up— amount his bag. them, he was swiping the up—amount people his bag. them, he was swiping the up—amount people that s bag. the amount of people that responded you responded and said, well, you know, cost living know, there's a cost of living crisis. i thought, how crisis. and i thought, how pathetic think this pathetic you think that this fella filling two bags fella is filling up two bags worth luxury chocolates worth of luxury chocolates because afford to eat because he can't afford to eat or his family? or feed his family? how pathetic. doing pathetic. he's doing that because chancer because he's a chancer who thinks away with thinks he can get away with it. >> mean, we want in the >> i mean, what we want in the criminal justice system is obviously we want people who have criminal to have committed a criminal act to be and need to be be caught and they need to be punished. absolutely punished. that's absolutely right. to get them right. but we want to get them to point where don't to a point where they don't commit crime any more. and for a lot people, putting in lot of people, putting them in prison does result in that. prison does not result in that. they into prison, they get they go into prison, they get out, in crime. out, they come in other crime. and what to do is and what we need to do is rehabilitate have rehabilitate people. i have to say, on this, say, i'm not an expert on this, but been a lot good but there's been a lot of good thinking done to punish thinking done on ways to punish people be rehabilitate them people and be rehabilitate them so don't commit crime so that they don't commit crime anymore. is not just anymore. that is not just incarcerating people leaving incarcerating people and leaving them everyone's >> do you think everyone's capable of all criminals are capable of all criminals are capable rehabilitated? capable of being rehabilitated? >> i i think >> no, i don't, i think obviously there are some exceptions, i think

exceptions, but i think i think that true for the vast that is true for the vast majority. clearly majority. but clearly some people to be away for people need to be put away for life. mean, wayne couzens life. i mean, wayne couzens spnngs life. i mean, wayne couzens springs nobody springs to mind. i mean, nobody that never that person, you know, can never be prison. and it be released from prison. and it wouldn't for society if wouldn't be safe for society if he was, because some people would you've got would say, when you've got someone likes of wayne someone like the likes of wayne couzens back death couzens bringing back the death penalty, with him. couzens bringing back the death perwhy with him. couzens bringing back the death perwhy spend with him. couzens bringing back the death perwhy spend allvith him. couzens bringing back the death perwhy spend all of] him. couzens bringing back the death perwhy spend all of this]. couzens bringing back the death perwhy spend all of this fortune >> why spend all of this fortune keeping prison? >> why spend all of this fortune kee for; prison? >> why spend all of this fortune kee for what? prison? >> for what? >> for what? >> that what we >> because that isn't what we do. it. clearly you do. and also it. clearly you cannot even somebody cannot do that even for somebody like all know that like him. and we all know that he what he but you he did what he did. but you can't do that because there are miscarriages justice miscarriages of justice which take miscarriages of justice which takiwhat do you think to that >> what do you think to that that'll spark up some thoughts within you in the case where there's no, uncertainty whatsoever. clear as day whatsoever. it's clear as day that the person did those kind of you think we should of acts. do you think we should even engage? people might say even engage? people might say even a referendum even just perhaps a referendum on the subject of capital punishment. what that punishment. what about that whole what prison is whole notion of what prison is actually it punishment? actually for? is it punishment? is rehabilitation? is it rehabilitation? is it a mixture of two of the birth? sorry. and do you think we need more less prisons or more prisons or less prisons or what? thoughts on all of what? your thoughts on all of that really fascinating subject, law and order and the way we

manage it or we don't, should i say more accurately in this country. and i want to speak about that after the break, because now , he's because a judge now, he's basically, these eco basically, you know, these eco protesters that they protesters that think that they can pain can walk around chucking pain everywhere rest of can walk around chucking pain ev becausee rest of can walk around chucking pain ev because they rest of can walk around chucking pain ev because they think rest of can walk around chucking pain ev because they think that ;t of can walk around chucking pain ev because they think that the it because they think that the climate is basically fire and climate is basically on fire and about somehow combust. well, about to somehow combust. well, anyway, now anyway, a judge has now said that actually acting like you do because a so—called climate because of a so—called climate emergency longer a emergency is no longer a reasonable excuse. what do you think see you in two.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me. i do like it when you're in quincy. because. should we wear our bikinis next time? i've got to say who it is. >> you're a calf. it's quite warm. >> i've got to say, we're pushing on through, though. we're the male menopause. i'm feeling hot. we're troopers here. the parliamentary

sketchwriter for the daily mail. quentin letts and the former labour adviser mike buckley are with me till seven divided opinions on that last story there, in terms of whether it's fanning himself, everyone is fanning himself, everyone is fanning himself. close your eyes. you might think you're in barbados . oh, that's you. it is. barbados. oh, that's you. it is. it's that it's that warm london w2 . your freckles will be coming w2. your freckles will be coming out anyway, look, divided out soon, anyway, look, divided opinion, one of my viewers has said mike is . you're right. he said mike is. you're right. he says there are alternative punishments to prison. he kind of loses you a bit, though. i think on his final sentence. firing squad. he says, bring back the birch. i'm not quite sure that's what mike has. >> not really what i was aiming at. >> no, you started off together, but you did kind of diverge. >> hey, you know, let's let's take the positive , yes, take the positive, yes, elizabeth says, mike mentioned we put so many more people in prison than other comparable countries . she says some might countries. she says some might question whether or not that is because we seem to be a magnet for other countries. criminals she says, let me know your

thoughts on that one. >> hyperventilating at ofcom with all this stuff. >> charles says, charles says, what about getting the less serious offenders to work more in the community so that they actively give something back to society and feel a part of it? well, there you go. >> great suggestion. >> great suggestion. >> great suggestion there, charles. that's got mike's nod of approval there, let's talk, shall we? these so—called, like, eco warriors, these eco protesters. now, whether or not i always found it fascinating when they think they can wander up somewhere and, for up to somewhere and, for example, pin over example, chuck pin all over it and all of it, it seems and all the rest of it, it seems to me that there was some kind of said, to me that there was some kind ofyou said, to me that there was some kind ofyou genuinely said, to me that there was some kind ofyou genuinely believed said, to me that there was some kind ofyou genuinely believed that, to me that there was some kind ofyiclimateinely believed that, to me that there was some kind ofyiclimate , ely believed that, to me that there was some kind ofyiclimate , you 3elieved that, to me that there was some kind ofyiclimate , you know,ed that, to me that there was some kind ofyiclimate , you know, damage the climate, you know, damage and the of it was so and all the rest of it was so intense that somehow you could perhaps you did perhaps get let off if you did criminal damage in this way, because you could argue if because you could argue that if the landlord property or the landlord of the property or the landlord of the property or the of the property or the owner of the property or whatever understood whatever it was truly understood the nature of the emergency, then there be somewhat then there might be somewhat sympathetic to your actions. anyway, short, anyway, long story short, a judge has ruled now that that cannot be used as a permissible

defence. where are you on this, mike, well, there's a balance that needs to be had between peaceful protest, for example, or like the climate or things like the climate crisis, is clearly the crisis, which is clearly the biggest that face, biggest crisis that we face, not just country, but as a just as a country, but as a planet, and people's private property. so i actually, i'm in favour of this because i think people do need to be able to protest about the climate emergency and the lack of action on the climate emergency. that's absolutely that doesn't absolutely right. that doesn't need it shouldn't need to me. and it shouldn't mean people's private mean damaging people's private property. so i think this is probably good judgement and probably a good judgement and i'm glad see it there. i'm glad to see it there. >> good. i think it's nuts . >> good. i think it's nuts. >> good. i think it's nuts. >> it's nuts that anyone was ever let off, vandalism ever being let off, vandalism charges just because they're doing this patronising argument. oh the owners of the property, would have, didn't didn't understand the issues at hand here. it's outrageous that was ever the case, mind you, it does strike me that climate change protests. it's very 2023. do you really is. it seems to me all

the wind has gone out of that. and the new thing is palestine. that's what we're protesting about this year. that's that's the must have look. and you just get the impression we're hearing less about just stop oil than we were, 18 months ago. >> i mean, my understanding is that just stop oil and they've changed their tactics. so i think they're probably doing this protesting less this kind of protesting less anyway, a mob gone anyway, the rent a mob have gone off. so don't think it's so off. so i don't think it's so much that they're still much that they're not still passionate the i passionate about the issue. i mean, of course they are still passionate issues because mean, of course they are still pas still|te issues because mean, of course they are still pas still|te still issues because mean, of course they are still pas still|te still there.; because mean, of course they are still pas still|te still there. but:ause it's still it's still there. but you're right, there has been a much gaza and much more coverage of gaza and palestine recent times, and palestine in recent times, and for reasons well. for obvious reasons as well. >> giving coverage. you >> i hate giving coverage. you know, sit on know, when people go and sit on roads or they go and chuck paint on theirs, they smash this or on theirs, or they smash this or i it. i hate giving them i hate it. i hate giving them the oxygen publicity . i think the oxygen of publicity. i think the oxygen of publicity. i think the thing you do with the best thing you can do with those processes is they those kind of processes is they just they just ignore them more. they should be on telly. >> fully understand why >> i fully understand why they're doing what they're doing, see the doing, because you see the disconnect between what the scientists saying and what scientists are saying and what politicians are doing, it's

politicians are doing, and it's absolutely . i'm absolutely gargantuan. so i'm glad they protesting, absolutely gargantuan. so i'm glaci'm they protesting, absolutely gargantuan. so i'm glaci'm glady protesting, absolutely gargantuan. so i'm glaci'm glad that protesting, absolutely gargantuan. so i'm glaci'm glad that they're ing, absolutely gargantuan. so i'm glaci'm glad that they're making and i'm glad that they're making the they're making. the point that they're making. but i don't approve of what it what it to making, what it comes to making, you know, causing damage to other people just getting people or indeed just getting in somebody people or indeed just getting in sonlebody people or indeed just getting in soni think they should be >> i think they should be obuged >> i think they should be obliged pay for damage obliged to pay for the damage that they cause. >> i think it should be obliged to it up. to clean it up. >> up. >> clean it up. >> clean it up. >> i mean, the damage the other day to an painting, of day to an oil painting, of balfour, that was. >> absolutely >> yeah, that was absolutely awful. should be forced to >> they should be forced to repair thing. repair the thing. >> course, was linked >> that, of course, was linked to israel—palestine to the israel—palestine conflict. wasn't it, conflict. that one, wasn't it, not sympathy. i have to not much sympathy. i have to say, coming through for the protesters here. nigel says, any protesters here. nigel says, any protesters that behave in a criminal way like this should be financially liable for the damage that they do or the delays that they cause. that's quentin's point there. there'd never be able to pay back some of those costs, though, would they? they not >> well, then they might not do it. >> is also a >> well, yes, that is also a good anthony says good point. anthony says our criminal system has criminal justice system has become over the become far too soft over the years. he says it swung too much in favour of criminals. years. he says it swung too much in favour of criminals . they in favour of the criminals. they forget, he says, about the

victims of the crimes. is that fair or not? coming up after the break, do you think the kind of, upper echelons of society, the men should have their own spaces? male only members clubs? should they still be a thing? i suspect that one of my panel could perhaps be a member of such , establishment. i bet you such, establishment. i bet you can't guess who. see you in two. >> hello there. michelle

dewberry with you until 7:00 tonight. don't forget as well. straight after me, you've got nigel farage with none other than donald trump. you don't want to miss that, everybody, i shall certainly be watching that. the countdown is for on it. but coming back here with you till 7:00 tonight, myself and the parliamentary sketchwriter for the daily mail , sketchwriter for the daily mail, quentin letts and the former labour buckley . labour adviser, mike buckley. now, the guardian's not happy. everybody because one of their

headune everybody because one of their headline stories today was about a private member's club. that is for gentlemen only, the garrick club. i refer to in london, there's accusations now, quentin , that it's all the kind of upper echelons of society, all the powerful. >> it's a cabal of important, powerful people who are running the country. >> and i thought to myself when i heard descriptions like that , i heard descriptions like that, i heard descriptions like that, i quentin letts is somehow i bet quentin letts is somehow involved. you? i've been. involved. are you? i've been. >> i've been to the garrick a few times. it's all right. are you a member, johnny? no, i'm not a member that one. i'm a not a member of that one. i'm a member of another gentleman's club. madame fifi's massage parlour street , but they parlour on dean street, but they do a very good savoury, but, no, i've been to the garrick a few times. it's a beautiful building. and the grub is pretty good.i building. and the grub is pretty good. i had a very good veal chop there last time, but the idea that these people are running the country is, i think, a little far fetched. >> right. well, why can't . >> right. well, why can't. >> right. well, why can't. >> women are old geezers who've got of custard. can't got a lot of custard. why can't women members? it's women be members? because it's a gents club and my daughter, one

of my daughters, is a member of an all women's club called the university women's club. and, they don't allow blokes in. it's an outrage. it's not. it's a free country, so fair's fair , free country, so fair's fair, says quentin. >> mike. >> mike. >> i mean, it's archaic and it needs to change what is. you know, it's my view, the fact that the garrick doesn't admit women members. there are lots of these members clubs, you know, across london, other across london, probably in other parts country well. parts of the country as well. and you have and they're, you know, you have to for membership. so it is to pay for membership. so it is well—to—do society well—to—do members of society that against that go, i've no nothing against them existing, all of them them existing, but all of them have their constitution . have changed their constitution. and were once men and those that were once men only, know, now only, you know, they all now admit women. exception admit women. the only exception now garrick. no, no. now is the garrick. no, no, no. the time the garrick had the last time the garrick had a vote, its members vote, over half its members voted women in. but they voted to let women in. but they need a thirds majority, need a two thirds majority, apparently, change the rules. apparently, to change the rules. so there are hopes, if they have another vote, that they'll change rules . to be honest, change the rules. to be honest, though, mean, of my though, i mean, one of my thoughts is is archaic. thoughts is this is archaic. it shouldn't my shouldn't exist anymore. and my other is, why other thought is, well, why are we why we talking we genuinely why are we talking about if we've got nothing we genuinely why are we talking aboutimportante got nothing we genuinely why are we talking aboutimportant going othing we genuinely why are we talking aboutimportant going on?1g more important going on?

>> guardian journalist who >> the guardian journalist who wrote story amelia wrote this story is amelia gentleman. surname , and gentleman. that's a surname, and she in law she is the daughter in law of stanley johnson, or a daughter of stanley johnson. father of boris. and, he's a member of the garrick . so i boris. and, he's a member of the garrick. so i think it may be a tricky. they may have differing views. >> i mean, that family has proven that there are different there were different political cultural views present within the johnson clan and family issues here. we could possibly be. i do hope that they be. so i do hope that they change the rules, because it does seem odd in this day and age that this institution exists and don't admit women members. >> and i think the thing i mean, just frank, i genuinely just to be frank, i genuinely could less if there is could not care less if there is a that not allowed a club that i'm not allowed into because my sex, i do think because of my sex, i do think that you're going to be that if you're going to be allowed there, let them allowed in there, they let them in. not as members. in. yeah, but not as members. yeah, i do if you're yeah, but i do think if you're going having going to start, you know, having all kind respect and all of this kind of respect and all of this kind of respect and all of this kind of respect and all of it for a all the rest of it for a single—sex spaces for men, then you a society , allow the you can, as a society, allow the ridiculousness goes ridiculousness that goes on in female when a man sticks female spaces when a man sticks a dress on and a wig may be in a bit of lipstick, if he's feeling

bold and says that he's called sharon then wants sharon and then wants to be allowed that space, allowed into that space, and then establishments , then then those, establishments, then buckle those men buckle and let those men actually things like actually into things like changing rooms of women. that really, really me. but on really, really annoys me. but on these socialising clubs, these kind of socialising clubs, i really mind about i don't really mind about it. but the side it would be but the flip side of it would be that actually, mike, if you're trying to get on life, trying to get on in life, i don't know if you want to get on in whatever, whether it's corporate politics corporate life, politics and all of of networking is of the kind of networking is going after hours among the going on after hours among the men only it's quite then, men only it's quite hard then, isn't it, to climb your way up, i don't think i mean , i don't i don't think i mean, i don't really know, but i don't think you need to be a member of the garrick club to get it on in any particular sector of society, whether politics or whether it be politics or banking or anything else. >> lots others of >> there are lots of others of these clubs. people want to these clubs. if people want to be of a club, they be a member of a club, they can choose their choose another one and do their networking there. if need be. i'm if this networking i'm sure if this networking to be had at the garrick, whatever your gender, you can be invited to member. your gender, you can be invited to obviously member. your gender, you can be invited to obviously that member. your gender, you can be invited to obviously that memberember. your gender, you can be invited to obviously that member would but obviously that member would have to be a male. >> have a transsexual in my >> we have a transsexual in my all do you and he

all gents club. do you and he turns up at the bar. she turns up at the bar. dressed as a woman now, and, nobody bats an eyelid. but there was discussion about this. and could this person still remain a member of an all male membership club? well, yes , as a woman and yes, well, yes, as a woman and yes, yes, yes they can, because when elected, they were a he. yeah but hold on, because it's even more simple than that. >> a trans woman is a biological man, don't get me on. >> so, yes, they can still be. >> so, yes, they can still be. >> i'm not. i'm not going to get myself a biological club anyway , myself a biological club anyway, i reached out to the garrick and i reached out to the garrick and i what is their i asked for what is their transgender policy? >> because thought myself, >> because i thought to myself, do what i might start do you know what i might start identifying michael identifying as michael duberry? i like man for the i might feel like a man for the night and see whether or not i can get in, funnily enough , they can get in, funnily enough, they didn't reply to me on that one, so i suspect allowed not to so i suspect i'm allowed not to be a member, your thoughts on all of you saying, all of that many of you saying, though many men getting in touch, well, touch, saying, well, i can't join the women's institute, so why have our own

why can't we all have our own spaces? lots of you getting in touch please, michelle, touch saying, please, michelle, please many need a bit please, many of you need a bit of away from your wife. you of time away from your wife. you want private spaces, want your private men's spaces, it's time for us to it's almost time for us to finish which is wonderful, finish now. which is wonderful, because to quentin because i'm going to ask quentin to the secrets of to let me in to the secrets of what on among gentlemen, in what goes on among gentlemen, in gentlemen clubs . a lot of gentlemen clubs. a lot of boozing. that is not for, six o'clock hours , i can tell you. o'clock hours, i can tell you. boozing and snoozing after the break. for now, though, thank you. gentlemen for company. you. gentlemen for your company. farage the farage and trump. up next, the big tonight's big one. tonight's >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar, sponsors of weather on . solar, sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hi there and welcome to the latest gb news forecast from the met office. cloud will thicken for many of us over the next 24 hours, turning damp, but the rain does ease later on. now we're going to see a weather system approach from the southwest associated with an area of low pressure that's forming at the moment, and that's going push finger of that's going to push finger of

rain into much of wales, southwest england , and then southwest england, and then overnight, northern ireland. southern eventually central scotland, as well as parts of the midlands and east anglia, now the far southeast, likely to stay mainly dry. ten celsius here and the far northwest of scotland also dry with clear spells . touch of frost as we spells. touch of frost as we start off wednesday, that's the best place for any bright weather first thing. elsewhere. a lot of cloud cover those spells. rain continuing through the morning, turning heavy for a time parts of wales and time across parts of wales and northern england before eventually fragments eventually the rain fragments and pulls away. but it does tend to stay damp across this central swathe of the a few showers swathe of the uk. a few showers elsewhere, but actually western scotland, northern ireland brightening . feeling brightening up nicely. feeling fresh here but feeling warm in the southeast where there will be afternoon sunshine and be some afternoon sunshine and highs celsius. is highs of 18 celsius. thursday is a different day. we start a very different day. we start the day with outbreaks of heavy rain the northwest , rain across the northwest, strong winds moving in as well, the spreading across the rain spreading across northern ireland and scotland dunng northern ireland and scotland during morning early

during the morning and early afternoon, thickening cloud across england and wales. but the arriving here until the rain not arriving here until much a return much later on friday. a return to sunny spells and blustery showers. the heaviest downpours towards the northwest along with gusty winds. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening. well, this is it. farage. the trump interview . it. farage. the trump interview. a couple of snippets for you. here's what he had to say about prince harry. >> if they know something about the and lied , i'll the drugs and if he lied, i'll have to take appropriate action. okay >> and his thoughts on october the 7th. you wouldn't have

ukraine. >> you wouldn't have had israel. the attack on october 7th would never have taken place. and crucially, absolutely crucially, he puts to bed many of the myths about america, him and nato . about america, him and nato. >> nope. >> nope. >> i'm not going to pay you. we're not going to do it. we're not going to defend you if you're not paying your bills, we're not going to defend you. it's very simple. >> at first, the news with polly middlehurst . middlehurst. >> nigel, thanks very much indeed. >> nigel, thanks very much indeed . and good evening to you. indeed. and good evening to you. well, our top story tonight concerns the economy in britain. the shadow chancellor has been speaking at a meeting tonight setting out labour's plans for britain's saying it's britain's economy, saying it's like a new chapter in british history. addressing finance leaders this evening, rachel reeves has been likening the challenge awaiting the next government to that faced by margaret thatcher in 1979. she made it clear she plans