socks on give you a little shimmy with that because as i said, it is well down syndrome day. but did you know that in this country you can abort your baby right up until the day it's born.7 if it has down's syndrome? the born? if it has down's syndrome? the liam fox wants to stop the mp liam fox wants to stop that. do you agree with him or not? and get this, thousands of so—called waspi women are owed compensation due to the way that changes in their state pension was managed. so should they get it? will they get it and who will pay for it? and we talk about building houses all the time, don't we? but you know

what? it's time to move the conversation on. never mind houses. we need to houses. do you think we need to start building whole new towns? if where. also if so, tell me where. also council tax rises have been announced today. how much is yours up ? also, kemi yours going up? also, kemi badenoch says that workplace diversity courses are snake oil. is she right ? diversity courses are snake oil. is she right? yes, indeed. that's all to come over the next houn that's all to come over the next hour. but before we get stuck in, let's cross live for tonight's latest news headlines . tonight's latest news headlines. >> michelle, thank you very much indeed. and good evening to you. well, the top story from the gp newsroom today is that the bank of england has held the interest rate at 5.25% for the fifth time in a row, the bank of england governor, andrew bailey, said the economy isn't yet at the point where rates can be lowered. but he said things are moving in the right direction. people have been telling people in hull have been telling gb news what they thought of the

latest interest rate figure , but latest interest rate figure, but it me about the elderly it concerns me about the elderly who are just on old age pensions because that affects them quite a lot, and young families as well, you know, particularly single parents, you don't really get much if you think about it. >> if you look in your bank and you look at it, it's not really that much because you've got your pay. and if you've your bills to pay. and if you've got debts or anything to got like debts or anything to pay, got like debts or anything to pay, that's just going pay, that's just they're going to you're going to go. so you're not going to see benefit. i've been see it in the benefit. i've been working hospitality, which working in hospitality, which isn't the best industry isn't the best the best industry for income, i was for an income, so i was struggling. i'm struggling to keep therefore i've keep afloat and therefore i've had had back in with had to, had to move back in with my parents up here. >> news today, >> well, in other news today, thousands women born in the thousands of women born in the 19505 thousands of women born in the 1950s eligible for 1950s may be eligible for compensation after report compensation after a report found department for found that the department for work pensions failed to work and pensions failed to adequately them that the adequately inform them that the state pension age was changing. the parliamentary and health service ombudsman looked at potential injustices resulting from the decision to raise women's retirement age to bring it in line with men's in 2010.

well the women against state pension inequality campaign , pension inequality campaign, waspi is suggesting there should be £10,000 in compensation for each woman claiming they weren't properly warned about the changes. the new report suggests, though they should receive a payout of between 1 and £3000. shadow home secretary yvette cooper says it's important to take the report, though very seriously . though very seriously. >> i think this is a really important issue because many women across the country just feel like they had the goalposts moved from them at the time when they didn't know what was changing . and so that's why changing. and so that's why i think it's really important that we at this report . i we look at this report. i haven't yet, but i know haven't seen it yet, but i know that people be looking that people will be looking really at really seriously at it. >> cooper. well, >> yvette cooper. well, the waspi angela says waspi chair, angela madden says she's pleased with the news so far. >> three years ago in july 21st, the ombudsman agreed with us that the dwp had got it seriously wrong and mal administered the changes to the state pension age, not ever so happy with the suggestions he's

made to the government, but i'm really glad that he's laid the paper before the government because i think it needs to be debated in the house. >> angela madden of the waspi campaign. now, in other news, today, number 10 says it's deaung today, number 10 says it's dealing with a migration emergency after a record number of asylum seekers crossed the engush of asylum seekers crossed the english channel yesterday , 514 english channel yesterday, 514 illegal migrants were picked up by border force officials. and that's the highest daily number this year so far. and we understand today at least another 300 migrants have arrived across the channel in six small boats. the government hopes to get its rwanda bill into law by april the 18th. we hear this afternoon . and the hear this afternoon. and the home secretary, james cleverly, says he's determined to deliver on the government's pledge to stop the boats. >> i am absolutely determined to get the legislation through the house to prevent labour peers continually, continually delaying and obstructing what i am trying to do , what the

am trying to do, what the government is trying to do to break the business model of these criminal smuggling gangs, to deter people making those dangerous crossings across the channel to protect our borders and to stop the boats. >> james cleverly means while a south sudanese man has been jailed for piloting a dangerously overcrowded small boat across the english channel as it made its way overseas last august , 31 as it made its way overseas last august, 31 year old hall farm worker was caught steering the vessel, with 52 migrants balanced on board. many of whom were forced to perch dangerously on each side of the inflatable boat. the home office has released this series of images. if you're watching on television, you can see them. they were taken by border force officials off the overcrowded boatin officials off the overcrowded boat in conditions across the engush boat in conditions across the english channel. now, channel 4 says their investigation into the allegations against the comedian russell brand brand has found no evidence that its managers were aware of any sexual allegations against him . sexual allegations against him. in september, the 48 year old was accused of rape, assault and

emotional abuse after a joint investigation by the broadcaster and the times and sunday times. mr brand has vigorously denied all accusations against him . all accusations against him. iphone maker apple has been accused in the us courts today of monopolising the smartphone market. in the case against apple, brought by the us justice department. it alleges the company used its control of the iphone to illegally limit competitors and consumer options. apple denies the claim and has vowed to vigorously fight the claim . four fight the claim. four environmental protesters have pleaded not guilty to criminal damage at the prime minister's yorkshire home, the greenpeace activist draped rishi sunak constituency house with anti—oil and gas banners last year. each of the accused denied the charges of criminal damage to roof slates after the group was pictured sitting on the prime minister's roof whilst he was away on holiday. the two day trial will start july , the trial will start in july, the queen has said today. his majesty king charles is doing

very well. she was on a visit to belfast today in northern ireland during her first engagement there. queen camilla was handed a get well soon card for her husband, who's undergoing treatment for cancer. meanwhile, king himself has meanwhile, the king himself has been new high been meeting the new high commissioners for tanzania and singapore ceremony in singapore at a ceremony in buckingham palace in london. those are the top stories. if you want those gb news alerts, scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news .com/ alerts. >> thank you very much for that, polly. i'm michelle dewberry keeping you company until 7:00 tonight alongside me in my panel tonight alongside me in my panel, the former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, and the visiting professor at staffordshire university, tom buick. good evening, both of you gentlemen. hi, there, you know the drill on this program, don't you?ifs the drill on this program, don't you? it's not just about us. it's very much about you guys at home. what's on your mind tonight? i've got a packed show coming there's lots coming up for you. there's lots

i to talk to you about i want to talk to you about housing council tax. have you got your new rates through yet? eye mind. by eye watering, i won't mind. by the if councils doing the way, if councils were doing a the stuff that they're a lot of the stuff that they're actually supposed instead of actually supposed to, instead of spending of money wasting spending a lot of money wasting it, actually, on some ridiculous stuff. panel, you can stuff. one of my panel, you can guess which one? a former councillor. so has lot guess which one? a former co sayllor. so has lot guess which one? a former co say on'. so has lot guess which one? a former co say on that has lot guess which one? a former co say on that issue. lot guess which one? a former co say on that issue. i lot guess which one? a former co say on that issue. i also lot to say on that issue. i also want to talk about the thing that you've inadvertently come dressed because i dressed as kelvin, because i want talk the it's want to talk about the new. it's all kicking have you seen all kicking off. have you seen it? been covering it on gb it? we've been covering it on gb news, but this whole notion of the saint george that's the saint george flag that's been amended on these england kits, matter or not? been amended on these england ksaid, matter or not? been amended on these england ksaid, kelvin,1atter or not? been amended on these england ksaid, kelvin, it'szr or not? been amended on these england ksaid, kelvin, it's a or not? been amended on these england ksaid, kelvin, it's a or ncbig i said, kelvin, it's a very big coincidence, actually. dress like today. get into like it today. we'll get into all of and more as the all of that and more as the programme progresses. and i'm also the first time ever, also, for the first time ever, i'm with interacting i'm dabbling with interacting with guys online as well. with you guys online as well. you join conversation you can join that conversation gb news .com/ viewers. nice to chat to those of you that are already there. but for now, i showed you my snazzy, odd colourful socks earlier on, didn't i? i'm wearing them because today is world down

syndrome day. now, someone who's very passionate about this topic is mp , liam fox. he joins me is the mp, liam fox. he joins me right good evening to you, right now. good evening to you, sir. liam, now, you are very passionate about down's syndrome. i've read your stories. you grew up with a little boy next door, and that was really kind of affected your outlook. you've been very successful in your campaigning, but it hasn't stopped for you yet, has it? you are currently campaigning for yet for additional changes. tell us more i >> -- >> well, you know, gavin newsom mentioned that it was getting in the regulations and the government zheng qinwen in education and healthcare and care, but all the anomalies yesterday that prime minister testing that. >> liam just hold that really important thought because i'm just going to re—establish a connection with you. >> and whilst i'm doing so, because it's really important for me that everyone can clearly hear saying. so what for me that everyone can clearly hea going saying. so what for me that everyone can clearly hea going to saying. so what for me that everyone can clearly hea going to do saying. so what for me that everyone can clearly hea going to do is aying. so what for me that everyone can clearly hea going to do is i'm g. so what for me that everyone can clearly hea going to do is i'm just) what i'm going to do is i'm just going to show you, one of the

reactions that sunak reactions that rishi sunak had in to a suggestion, in pmqs today to a suggestion, that is making here that liam fox is making here about changing the law. let's listen. >> grateful to my right >> i'm grateful to my right honourable friend for his dedicated work passing the dedicated work in passing the down syndrome act into law, as he when grounds for he knows when the grounds for abortion were amended, parliament agreed doctors parliament agreed that doctors were placed to make those were best placed to make those difficult decisions women difficult decisions with women and families . and also, as and their families. and also, as he knows, it's been a long standing convention that it would be for parliament to decide whether to make any changes the law on abortion changes to the law on abortion and these issues have and that these issues have always been treated as an individual matter of conscience . individual matter of conscience. >> so there you go. that's what rishi had to say on the matter. let's go back now to the conservative mp, sir liam fox. we can hear you much better now, as you were saying . as you were saying. >> so yes, there's an anomaly in that. why? we met them at the station . over to you . we knew station. over to you. we knew and we. kc but at the same time,

i also realised at the onset of labour and clearly, that i don't think anyone's intention. but until we change it, that's the reality. we all want to reduce that to the same age indexation as you can see there. and, van—tam west lindsey tessa jowell people with zheng qinwen entry into the second class. >> indeed, i do apologise because i thought your sound was much crystal clearer, but unfortunately it's not. but i certainly got the gist of what you're saying, and i thank you very much for your time. this, i'll come over to my panel now, this is a very sensitive topic. if you weren't able to hear that clearly, let me just bring you up to speed, the law in the land at moment where currently at the moment where we currently are, actually you can are, is that actually you can have an abortion, but you get to a cut off point. now what, liam fox was basically saying there that if someone has if they know that if someone has if they know that their child has got down's

syndrome, then actually they can terminate right terminate that pregnancy, right up the point, up until essentially the point, just they're due to give just before they're due to give birth. he wants to change that. what he's trying explain what he's trying to explain there these people, they there is that these people, they have equality in law once they're so essentially, they're born. so essentially, what is they what he would argue is they should a quality of law, should have a quality of law, essentially be treated most essentially be treated like most other or babies or other children or babies or foetus, people want to foetus, whatever. people want to use terminology all the use the terminology as all the other pregnancies. where are you on right . so the situation on this, right. so the situation was that this law, i think, has existed since 1967. that's true. l, existed since 1967. that's true. i, i, i didn't know that you could carry out. it's after 24 weeks a normal, you can't have the abortion. and with these children, it can last the full term or basically within half an houn term or basically within half an hour. my, my view is that it is up to the parents. now, the. so i wouldn't change the law i and i'm pleased that rishi did not get involved in this and said it's up to up to each individual mps and their conscience, which they go. if it were me, i

definitely wouldn't change it. i wouldn't change it because it is the parents who will have to carry the burden of the child . carry the burden of the child. now that you might say, well, that's a very unfair thing. the child should be able to make their own decision . i would say, their own decision. i would say, i would say in relation to down's, that is not an appropriate reaction. and anyway, the truth about the matter is the parents after 24 weeks will have made a decision . weeks will have made a decision. we are either going to have the abortion prior to 24 weeks or almost certainly we are not going to do that. so i think this is an unnecessary law and i hope that it fails . hope that it fails. >> tom burke, first of all, i mean, you mentioned it's world down's syndrome day. i think we should celebrate, obviously, the contribution that those with down's syndrome make. >> i've got my that's >> that's why i've got my that's what you've got. >> wonderful. >> wonderful. >> i am getting on a bit now, so i be a bit more relaxed i need to be a bit more relaxed with way i got my socks on. with the way i got my socks on. but i think you can kind of see

them there. i've got to put them down. i'm getting on a bit now. everybody you're as everybody if you're watching as opposed the opposed to listening on the radio, adjust your set. radio, do not adjust your set. >> look on the serious >> but look on the serious point. the debate here is should parliament pass into law a change to the 1967 act that calvin just referred there calvin just referred to there and, perhaps unusually, some rare between calvin rare agreement between calvin and i? i absolutely agree that the law should not be changed. and the reason for that, michel, is because actually, when you look at number of so—called look at the number of so—called late that take late terminations that take place , actually 98% of place, actually 98% of terminations take place actually below ten weeks, never mind below ten weeks, never mind below the 24 weeks. and when you look at the reasons for terminations, so—called late gestation termination signs that take place, they're often because of the health of the mother. in other words, there a change in circumstances . i read change in circumstances. i read some harrowing accounts earlier, actually, from a women's reproductive of charity that had captured some case studies for late terminations, and, for example, women who were subject to domestic violence and didn't

want bring child into the want to bring a child into the world financial situations. a partner who had died . in other partner who had died. in other words, there were very, very complex reasons for why parents, i know that very rare situation take a very, very difficult, morally charged decision about whether to go for a late termination. >> i mean, if, liam fox was still with us, he i'm sure will be saying things like, he says on average, 25 babies with down syndrome are aborted every year. beyond. sorry, between 24 and 40 weeks. he says it's an absolute travesty. he says people with down syndrome are not second class citizens as also as well. he points out that this is a first generation, perhaps where the down syndrome children are going to potentially outlive their well. so he's their parents as well. so he's got really interesting , got some really interesting, information for me personally, i think this is a very sensitive topic, and i'm very, i am kind of pro—choice for a woman. but then i think that there's also when you look at some of the other caveats to this, because it's not just down's syndrome

that you can abort that this affects, you can abort your child, right up until essentially the day that that child is born, if they have a condition such as a cleft, a cleft lip, a cleft palate, a clubfoot, things like that. now, what i think goes on sometimes is when you get diagnosed and you're going through your pregnancy, you want everything to be rosy. your biggest wish as a potential prospective parent is is healthy. is that your child is healthy. so when you out, heaven so when you find out, heaven forbid that's not perhaps forbid that that's not perhaps the outcome, that's you're going to destiny , then it's to be your destiny, then it's incredibly overwhelming. and then that of then i imagine that a lot of people get frightened, especially you you especially when you hear, you know, terms like that for you. you might associate it with, i don't know, some people call things disabilities when perhaps they're not really strictly speaking. and i think people get anxious and frightened. but for me, it makes me incredibly sad that you can terminate a child on the basis of, that you can terminate a child on the basis of , for example, on the basis of, for example, a cleft in this country, because a cleft in this country, because a cleft can be treated with a minor surgery, a clubfoot can be treated with minor surgery.

things are different things i didn't know that was true. >> i didn't even know, frankly, that down's syndrome children could be terminated right up at almost a full term. so, look , almost a full term. so, look, liam fox is a clever guy, and i very much doubt whether this is going to fly, though. >> well, i think i've just been told i've got it on good authority. third time lucky. i've been assured this time that everyone, is going to be able to hear absolutely crystal hear him. absolutely crystal clear. i brought everyone hear him. absolutely crystal cleto i brought everyone hear him. absolutely crystal cleto speed. brought everyone hear him. absolutely crystal cle to speed. i'veught everyone hear him. absolutely crystal cle to speed. i've beenzveryone hear him. absolutely crystal cleto speed. i've been speaking up to speed. i've been speaking on behalf what i think you on behalf of what i think you might be i've been might be saying. i've been reading out some of your quotes. you've been saying that 25 babies each year babies are aborted each year between 24 and 40. so i think i represented your position, reasonable. well, just if reasonable. well, but just if you will, tell us briefly, though, are you so though, why are you so passionate this? my panel passionate about this? my panel don't think you're going to be able get across the line. able to get it across the line. what you say about that? what would you say about that? >> well, see, because the >> well, we'll see, because the reaction of most mps was the same as calvin, which was i didn't even know that this was the case. many of them think

that in an era where we've been passing legislation, on disability and equality , that disability and equality, that it's not tenable to maintain this differentiation in, in the law. and again, calvin is quite right, given the level of diagnostics that we have. most parents will have made up their minds by the time they get to 24 weeks. so to have it extended on this case in for these children up to 40 weeks, i think is utterly unjustifiable in this day and age, and it needs to be rectified. >> but what would you say the flip side of this, liam, is that people will say, well, hold on, that's really well and good, for an outside individual to have this view. but when it's the parent, it's going to be their responsibility bring responsibility to bring up that child life . so shouldn't the child for life. so shouldn't the actual final decision come down to that parent? >> well, yes. and that that decision is and what we are proposing is that the age limit should be the same , in abortion should be the same, in abortion for children with down syndrome as with other children, diagnostics are there and this

is an argument about disability rights. and it's an argument about equality, not really an argument about abortion , argument about abortion, although i understand how emotive that is. but i think it's very hard on this world down syndrome day to say to many of the people that i met today, many of the children and adults , many of the children and adults, that you should be treated differently from the rest of the population when the when it comes to the choice about whether you could be aborted up until hours before you could be born. >> yeah, it's a very, very sensitive topic . sensitive topic. >> i think you do great work on this, i have to say, and i know people's opinions at home will be divided. so i'm looking forward to, hearing what people have to say. and i know also, liam, you know, i've you liam, you know, i've heard you say before you're very say before you, you're very keen, explicitly focus on keen, to explicitly focus on down's in this kind down's syndrome in this kind of work, know, is anyone work, but do you know, is anyone more broadly focusing on the points that i was just raising earlier about, you some earlier on about, you know, some of situations to of these situations apply to things lip, cleft things like cleft lip, cleft palate, clubfoot .

palate, clubfoot. >> yes. well, i mean, we have to ensure that we have equality, that we don't simply say to one group of people, you have less right to be born than than anyone else. it's about making those judgements, that we should have equality , across our law. have equality, across our law. we've got a lot of legislation in place to ensure that, it's about just making sure that we don't say to people , down don't say to people, down syndrome, you are less worthy than other people. and the reason that i wanted to bring in the down syndrome act was to give us conditions, that would actually improve the quality of life of people with some of these conditions that for the first time in our law, we would recognise that people with specific syndromes required specific syndromes required specific help and i think are trying to ensure that we get a quality of life for people, it is absolutely key to a society where we maximise the benefit of our society by maximising the

potential of everybody within it. >> indeed, just very briefly, what's the next step for this? and we just heard, of course, rishi sunaks, response what's next? >> well, it will be an amendment to the criminal justice bill. it's not yet clear when the government's going to bring the criminal justice bill back to the house of commons, but it's at that point we will put an amendment down to law. at the moment, of course, there's a bigger abortion debate on bigger abortion debate going on at same away from this at the same time, away from this question rights and question of rights and disability, the age limit disability, about the age limit itself , and so it's disability, about the age limit itself, and so it's going to be an issue, that is debated quite hotly in the house of commons. >> indeed. we'll certainly follow it. >> but for now, thank you very much for your time. that's the conservative mp there, sir liam fox. you. i do apologise fox. thank you. i do apologise again. about slightly again. just about the slightly muffled there. it wasn't muffled sound there. it wasn't your , i can assure you of your ears, i can assure you of that. will divide opinion that. that will divide opinion though. me your thoughts. though. tell me your thoughts. where you this one? where are you on this one? coming i want to talk to you coming up, i want to talk to you about waspi women. should about the waspi women. should they compensated? that's they be compensated? that's what a which well

a report says, which is all well and good report stage. is it and good at report stage. is it going to happen? should it happen? how is it going happen? who and how is it going to tell me. see you to be funded? tell me. see you in

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry keeping you company until 7:00 tonight. now, today is a big day for the waspi women. i'm sure you've been following this story, but long story short, it was about, a group of ladies. there were many of them. i can tell you now, that had their state pension age adjusted and many would argue they were not consulted properly. they weren't given the right amount of time and notice in plan their life . in order to plan their life. well, we've been waiting a very long time a report to be long time now for a report to be out and that report has landed today. story short, the today. long story short, the ombudsman many of ombudsman then said that many of these were treated these women indeed were treated badly. i'm going to summarise it in that way. and in fact are due compensation. well, i can speak

now to sheila simmons. she is a coordinator for a waspi group. good evening to you. is today a good day for you? >> well good evening michelle. well it's a bit of a mixed bag actually because we welcome the report after all these, these months and years, 67 months. and we welcome the fact that the ombudsman found that there was maladministration, that we needed an apology and that we should be compensated. so we welcome those findings. so it was extraordinary to then find out that the dwp was refusing to accept the recommendations or the findings of the report . the findings of the report. >> so what do you think is going to happen? i mean, i know what you would like to happen. obviously you want this full compensation be paid in full compensation to be paid in full and the wrongdoings to be and for the wrongdoings to be acknowledged the of acknowledged and all the rest of it. realistically, you it. but realistically, do you think going to happen? it. but realistically, do you thirwell, going to happen? it. but realistically, do you thirwell, we're»ing to happen? it. but realistically, do you thirwell, we're not to happen? it. but realistically, do you thirwell, we're not asking)en? it. but realistically, do you thirwell, we're not asking for? >> well, we're not asking for our pensions to be paid back to 60. we're asking for compensation for the maladministration of the dwp in its communication failure. so

what we would like now is the ombudsman's put it back to parliament. we know a lot of mps support us, so we ask them now to step up and put their money where their mouth is and some people watching this, the opinion will be divided . opinion will be divided. >> so there'll be many people in the camp that say, yes girl, ladies, we have your back. we want this to happen. then there'll be the flip side of it that perhaps we, you that perhaps say, yes, we, you know, support you. know, we support you. solidarity. times are tough. solidarity. but times are tough. the purse is not as, you the public purse is not as, you know, bustling as it once was. times are hard. we can't afford it. what would you say to those guys ? guys? >> well, it's all about political choices, isn't it? and also, the other thing is that by raising our state pension age, the treasury has saved a massive £181.4 billion. so to compensate us to the level that we would like, which the all party parliamentary group has supported, which is a basic £10,000 at least, would be a fraction of the money that's

been saved. >> so are we going to follow this story? >> i can assure you of this because it really is of interest to many, of our viewers. but for now, thank you very much for giving us your reaction on that. kelvin where are you on it? >> oh, we shouldn't give them a penny. we should say how sorry we are that they failed to understand 1995, the understand that in 1995, the government day said that government of the day said that in in 15 years time , after 15 in in 15 years time, after 15 years, we're going to, equalise pensions entirely appropriately . pensions entirely appropriately. and in 2010, 15 years later, along came cameron and he said, we're doing it. the fact is that these women failed to follow this right is their responsibility . we as with responsibility. we as with things like, you know, versions of the capital gains tax being changed through through the chancellor's statement just now, you are. and so i wouldn't pay them a penny. they're not entitled to it. in my view. the fact that they didn't use their eyes and their ears to protect

their own, their own future is an issue for them. and thank you and good night. >> and if cor blimey, i can hear them, i can hear them. kelvin, i can hear you from here. i bet people be furious because i'm telling you now, i don't know. i don't know how you spend your spare time, but many people will not be spending spare time not be spending their spare time just randomly , casually just randomly, casually listening pension listening out for pension announcements or may announcements that may or may not affect them in a decades plus time. many, many , many plus time. many, many, many women. ernie, like i've got an example of one here. she got her letter about her pension two years, she expecting , years, before she was expecting, to retire. so many people, some people, women , by the way, say people, women, by the way, say that they never got any comms at all. and i mean, this report is ombudsman report even validated that it said that the communications were lacking, to put mildly. tom. put it mildly. tom. >> well, back to business >> well, it's back to business as usual on this panel because i could disagree with kelvin could not disagree with kelvin more on that point. i mean, look, let's clear here. look, let's be clear here. there's communication there's two communication points. right. points. kelvin is quite right. the act, which did signal the 1995 act, which did signal that between 2010 and 2020, this

equality law essentially would come in where we'd equalise pensions for men and for women. at 65, there are 3 million waspi women affected. but what's important today, and i know it's not a legally binding judgement by the ombudsman, but it's a it's an important and why it took them five years. i haven't knows but the point is there's been an injustice here. dwp department for work and pensions. are you really digging in on this? and actually, whilst i agree with kelvin up to a point that we can't afford 30 odd billion pounds in terms of the backdated payments, but i do think we can pay somewhere between the and £3,000 between the 1000 and £3,000 compensation the on compensation that the on ombudsman is actually suggesting, which would be a fraction really of the price. >> and as my bet, by the way, tom, is that a lot of the women are simply making it up. it's actually a good thing. it's, you know, like those compensation schemes where a lawyer writes to you saying, have you you and saying, have you have you and saying, have you have you ever mercedes that you and saying, have you have you had mercedes that you and saying, have you have you had no mercedes that you and saying, have you have you had no idea/iercedes that you and saying, have you have you had no idea/iercethe, that

you and saying, have you have you had no idea/iercethe, the,hat you had no idea that the, the, the fuel worked in that way. so let's be clear. i am not in favour and nor is the public purse in favour. we have some massive scandals coming down the track. we've got billions going out the door with the post office. right. that's a taxpayer thing. we have the scandal of the blood, the tainted blood . the blood, the tainted blood. now that is a 20 to £30 billion. we are, as far as i know , under we are, as far as i know, under laboun we are, as far as i know, under labour, under tory, under lib dem. we are completely skinned. i'm afraid we've got to say to these ladies, i'm very sorry you have our apology for it, but we haven't got the money and nor do we believe that all of you are at it are suffering and that the dwp, unusually for somebody like me, i'm 100% behind them on this. on this particular waspi ladies, what do you make to what you've just had to hear from kelvin? >> but tom, go on. >> but tom, go on. >> we are the respect, the rule of law in this country or not. we are the setup, not a lawman. well, it's a law. it's not legally binding. but the point

is, an ombudsman who's effectively referee effectively an umpire, a referee has agreed that the department for work and pensions engaged in maladministration actually maladministration and actually goes back george osborne's goes back to george osborne's austerity i mean, i read austerity years. i mean, i read austerity years. i mean, i read a case from one of the waspi women who got letter in women today who got a letter in march that her pension was march 2013 that her pension was changed for another five years to march 2020, when she'd made her own personal retirement plans for the following year. well, that's reasonable thing to do. >> that's what she said. that's a reasonable thing to do, she said. >> well, what are you going to do if i, if i, if i thought i was going to get ten, ten grand by just agreeing that i was totally, totally, look, if somebody is coming up to retirement, are playing retirement, they are playing a lot interest a lot of on lot of interest in a lot of on what they're on, on what their payment is going be. payment is going to be. >> and, and what percentage of them are relying totally. have you noticed how have all you noticed how many have all come saying we were relying come out saying we were relying on was pension be at on what was the pension be at that time, say 6000 year? is that time, say 6000 a year? is that time, say 6000 a year? is thatis that time, say 6000 a year? is that is that if they were, if they were relying on six grand a year to get through, to get

through life in, in the, in through life in, in, in the, in the mid 2000, then there than they have massive problem they have a massive problem would support. it's not a would you support. it's not a problem going fund. problem i'm going to fund. >> support means >> would you support means testing compensation. testing the compensation. so you have your as to how have to put your case as to how you were financially. >> i'm not. >> no i'm not. >> no i'm not. >> they're not going to get for me. they're not getting one penny afraid. penny i'm afraid. >> sorry but not >> well i'm sorry but that's not how system works. they how the tax system works. they don't to you, kelvin and go don't come to you, kelvin and go right. you know, you've paid your pay or dividends your pay or your dividends or whatever sir, how whatever it is. please, sir, how do you mind if i spend do you. do you mind if i spend it on this? >> i totally agree with that. and it's down to parliament. and that's saying to that's why i'm saying to parliament haven't the parliament we haven't got the money. believe of money. i don't believe some of the women are or not the women who are or not unreasonably saying wouldn't unreasonably saying i wouldn't mind in mind ten grand. in fact, i wouldn't mind three grand pay for nice holiday. right. but for a nice holiday. right. but i'm to parliament, they i'm saying to parliament, they should should not bow should not they should not bow at knee this. otherwise at the knee to this. otherwise god many other god knows how many other compensation are going to. >> are you going do strap >> are you going to do strap them on to a lie detector test? >> not a bad idea, actually, most of them. >> gonna shut up. >> i'm gonna shut up. >> i'm gonna shut up. >> them will fail. >> most of them will fail. >> most of them will fail. >> i can't believe giving

>> i can't believe i'm giving the pam. pam used to the guy ideas. pam. pam used to say i really used to like kelvin, but now i think he is an absolute bleep. i'll tell you what bleep is in the brain, what the bleep is in the brain, but i'm not gonna i'm not gonna, i'm people's i'm not going to ruin people's teatimes that, linda teatimes by saying that, linda says, i can tell you, i don't think that the government will compensate women, think that the government will comgoesate women, think that the government will comgoes on women, think that the government will comgoes on to women, think that the government will comgoes on to say women, think that the government will comgoes on to say a women, think that the government will comgoes on to say a lot women, think that the government will comgoes on to say a lot ofymen, she goes on to say a lot of pensioners by the way, still pay income tax. yes they do. so a lot of these people potentially will still be taxpayers , as will still be taxpayers, as philip says. got to say, it is a lot of men, saying that they don't support this, philip says i was born in 1952 and i was treated very fairly . they treated very fairly. they weren't paying attention. yes, but philip, my love, you're not a woman. i don't think that you will have had your state pension age, changed so quickly with perhaps so little notice. caf says waspi women absolutely deserve some recompense for the diabolical changes that were made in such an untimely fashion . she says yes, of course, changes need to be made, but the

way it was done was absolutely appalling. they don't like you very much, kelvin? >> no. >> no. >> well, i'm pleased i'm putting that mildly. >> i'm pleased about that because truth about the because the truth about the matter they they have matter is they they will have known when were going to known when they were going to retire. at the retire. they had 15 years at the minimum get this right. retire. they had 15 years at the minimum get this right . why minimum to get this right. why on earth weren't they concentrating on their future in a positive way? and i'm afraid that they should have kept their what about what about things and their eyes open and none of this would have happened? >> what about like, >> what about things like, i don't know, people that got divorced and they their divorced and they had their settlements calculated on a particular and particular retirement age, and then sudden found out then all of a sudden found out that they're have to that they're going to have to work, i don't know, half a decade longer whatever else decade longer or whatever else it about people like it is. what about people like that? it is. what about people like tha well, i normally divorces are >> well, i normally divorces are matters of great joy for one partner and i and a pensioner. >> can't you. he's really he's coming out with all the lines tonight . tonight. >> well, i can tell. i mean, i do have to say there are divided opinions to be fair to you , opinions to be fair to you, kelvin, there are a lot of

people that are actually saying the same thing. william says take some responsibility. women i've got to say it's mainly men that have that sentiment. how would you feel? i'll throw it back on all these men that back on you. all these men that get in touch, and people get in touch, kelvin and people like that saying it's the women's how you women's fault. how would you feel if you're. i don't know who's planning your retirement at . forget, at whatever age. don't forget, there recently some there was talk recently on some report the retirement report that the retirement age could 71, could even go as high as 71, would you be up for that? would you think would be cool? and you think it would be cool? and if missed it for whatever if you missed it for whatever reason, you weren't communicated properly, it up reason, you weren't communicated propsay, it up reason, you weren't communicated propsay, you it up reason, you weren't communicated propsay, you know it up reason, you weren't communicated propsay, you know what, it up reason, you weren't communicated propsay, you know what, maybe and say, you know what, maybe it's on me. i bet you wouldn't. get tell me though get in touch and tell me though your thoughts views gb your thoughts gb views at gb news. com can hear you. i can news. com i can hear you. i can hear those waspi ladies. ezedi are going to be burning is kelvin mackenzie. during the break, tell you for break, i can tell you that for free. let's housing when we free. let's talk housing when we come never mind building come back. never mind building houses. time that we houses. is it time now that we just we've got to build just accept we've got to build whole on earth whole new towns? where on earth do these things? tell me . do we put these things? tell me. i'll you in two.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry till seven. it's still here. i've not kicked him out. the former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie and the fist team professor at staffordshire university, tom buick, who have divided opinion tonight. kelvin someone on twitter got in touch and said. michelle, you called kelvin my love. he says if a male presenter said that to a woman , yeah, the fella would be woman, yeah, the fella would be getting the boot, don't i? >> don't worry. yes. >> don't worry. yes. >> and don't worry. i take it back.i >> and don't worry. i take it back. i normally call him even far worse things. everybody. >> i've already reported you to ofcom . the chances of this show ofcom. the chances of this show surviving very well. surviving am very well. >> a long queue. ofcom >> there's a long queue. ofcom they're working long they're working through a long queue they get to that queue before they get to that one. i can assure of one. i can assure you of misogyny, by way, is misandry. >> so misandrist misandry. >> so misandrist misandry. >> yeah, but you see, i think it's dialects. it's just it's just dialects. it's just regional dialects. called regional dialects. i called you love. you love, it love. if i did call you love, it must have slipped out, because that's i was thinking.

that's not what i was thinking. i tell you that, but yeah, i could tell you that, but yeah, regional dialects are they no longer on television? longer allowed on television? am i get myself in i going to get myself in trouble? grief, so i going to get myself in troublof grief, so i going to get myself in troublof you grief, so i going to get myself in troublof you getting so i going to get myself in troublof you getting in so i going to get myself in troublof you getting in touch, many of you getting in touch, about this situation, barbara wants eyelashes back. wants your eyelashes back. kelvin. those, kelvin. she's missing those, lots and lots of you. carl says it was really great of liam fox to speak up on this difficult and people with and sensitive issue. people with down absolutely should down syndrome absolutely should always and always have the same rights and protections every body else, protections as every body else, elizabeth said. it's horrifying that she says, in her words, you can murder an unborn baby at full time just because it has down syndrome and many other things i've just explained as well. the cleft situation, the clubfoot . gary says down clubfoot. gary says down syndrome people most syndrome people are the most loving kind people . paul, loving and kind people. paul, margaret, i love this, she says. can just say , down. babies are can i just say, down. babies are not ill. they just have an extra chromosome . and if you are lucky chromosome. and if you are lucky enough to be a parent of a down, a baby with down syndrome, you are blessed special. i like are blessed and special. i like that, margaret. and i've got to say, i completely agree with you. thanks for all your thoughts. you're sending in on that one. now let's talk that one. but now let's talk housing we dabble around

housing because we dabble around these all the do it. these edges all the time. do it. we we know the situation. we will. we know the situation. the population is massively growing. housebuilding growing. the housebuilding is not keeping now not keeping up. well, now there's plans build 63,000 not keeping up. well, now there's inans build 63,000 not keeping up. well, now there's in and build 63,000 not keeping up. well, now there's in and around 63,000 houses in and around milton keynes. houses in and around milton keynes . you guessed it, many keynes. you guessed it, many people are outraged by that and don't want it to happen. do you think this is where we need to get to, though, essentially building just massive new towns? and if so, where? >> absolutely. adding >> absolutely. we're adding a city. the size of brighton and hove to this country. in population terms every single yeah population terms every single year. that's where i was formerly councillor. frankly formerly a councillor. frankly michelle, not building michelle, we're not building enough need to be enough homes. we need to be building housing building 300,000 housing units a yeah building 300,000 housing units a year. over this country , year. you fly over this country, see the percentage actually, of land. great islands of land. these great islands of ours that we're building on is 6. so the idea we don't have enough build these enough space to build these homes, be building homes, we need to be building new . we need to be taking new towns. we need to be taking the nimbys on. but actually the elephant is this if elephant in the room is this if we start building more homes, more supply market, it's more supply in the market, it's going in a real terms going to result in a real terms decrease in house prices. and i'm afraid for those that are that own their homes or they're

on the property ladder, they treat homes like atm cash treat their homes like atm cash machines, and they machines, many of them, and they don't the idea of house don't like the idea of house pnces don't like the idea of house prices falling. understandable. but we're going be able but we're not going to be able to house the population unless we lots. we get building lots. >> want to say. but let me >> i want to say. but let me bnng >> i want to say. but let me bring kelvin in, well, i'm against new towns. why? i'm in favour. well, because what happens with new towns and with the developers? it's an absolute scandal , is the developers? it's an absolute scandal, is that when you have a development, what have you got? you've got loads of so you've got loads of people. so have loads doctors. have we got loads of doctors. are there clinics? are there are there new clinics? are there new are there new new hospitals, are there new schools? every these schools? every all these developers, all promise this stuff? then damn stuff is stuff? then the damn stuff is neven a stuff? then the damn stuff is never, a thing, never never, never a thing, never built. and what you up with built. and what you end up with is group of houses , all with is a group of houses, all with people then drive 20 people having then to drive 20 miles to take part in miles to go to take part in facilities. so i in favour of facilities. so i am in favour of existing towns being expanded . existing towns being expanded. and i do accept totally that the green belt is an idea that doesn't work in an exploding population. so you tell me why it is . we can't have homes where

it is. we can't have homes where actually all that's happening on that on that field is a horse, right? grazing i just cannot understand how this argument has been that we're robbing the robbing the world of our countryside. we're not robbing him. i accept tom's argument completely that we are going to have to build on it because otherwise, do you know what happens to rents? do you want i mean, rents, rents around my way. i'm in north surrey, the rents there are literally if you've got a terraced house, it's 2000 or 1900 a month. it is incredible . two and a half grand incredible. two and a half grand for a for a semi, right? i mean, and this is a place 20, 22 miles outside london. so you live in clapham, you live in clapham or somewhere like that . you are somewhere like that. you are literally now paying 1200, £1,500 for a room. right. and you and there'll be four rooms. there are four rooms in the house. this cannot be solved unless we build more. yeah. >> go on. are you saying, michelle, we shouldn't be building more? is that why you wanted to take an on.

wanted to take an issue on. >> i'm going to take an >> no, i'm not going to take an issue. what going to say issue. what i was going to say issue. what i was going to say is this whole notion that the population expanding at population is expanding at a rate of knots. so therefore, let's expand houses let's expand the houses at a rate of knots. i always just press pause and but hang on press pause and go, but hang on a second, why aren't anyone actually saying what actually saying that? maybe what we should is trying not we should be doing is trying not to expand the population as quickly, of it quickly, and all the rest of it as currently are doing by as we currently are doing by ways uncontrolled ways of uncontrolled immigration. there's a debate >> yeah, well, there's a debate about of net migration. about levels of net migration. but budget but look, even the recent budget and office of budget and the office of budget responsibility, and the office of budget responsibthe, and the office of budget responsibthe tories changing as obviously the tories changing as to the migration, the legal migration, that migration, are still saying that even from the even if it falls from the 700,000 migration figure 700,000 net migration figure that had in the past that we've had in the past couple of years, it's going to that we've had in the past cotaround years, it's going to that we've had in the past cotaround 300,000. going to that we've had in the past cotaround 300,000. that'sto that we've had in the past cotaround 300,000. that's what be around 300,000. that's what we're about size of we're saying about the size of the city of brighton and hove on the city of brighton and hove on the coast, as calvin's the south coast, as calvin's indicating to indicating we've got to get building and, you we've building and, you know, we've got are now got young people who are now spending something like 60, sometimes of their sometimes 70% of their disposable on rent. disposable income on rent. that's not sustainable. and actually, think of actually, i think part of deaung actually, i think part of dealing with the nimby issue is that if we do develop the new towns, it's going to be easier

towns, it's going to be easier to get the planning permission. but you're calvin, you but you're right, calvin, you need the gp surgeries, the primary need of primary school, you need all of the infrastructure. >> good luck finding >> yeah. and good luck finding all way. and you all that by the way. and you speak about rents and places like that. well tomorrow, what i want explore bit more want to explore in a bit more detail the so—called and, detail is the so—called and, emergency, migration emergency, the migration emergency, the migration emergency government emergency that the government have decided to wake up have finally decided to wake up and that we found and realise that we found ourselves and about ourselves in. and you talk about rents and like that, rents and stuff like that, you've companies like people you've got companies like people like have you what like serco. have you seen what they're doing the moment? they're doing at the moment? good even trying to find, good luck. even trying to find, rental everybody. rental houses, everybody. but anyway, we'll into that anyway, we'll get into that properly tomorrow. the properly tomorrow. after the break, you break, i want to talk to you about kemi has about what kemi badenoch has been saying. it comes to been saying. when it comes to diversity. i'll see you in two.

hello, everyone. i'm michelle ju brit school seven, the former editor of the sun. kelvin mackenzie, also known as you like. the poster boy. now for the man that women waspi women

don't like anymore. oh, good. yeah. excellent. i don't think he cares, but i'm listening to you. waspi ladies, i hear you. i appreciate you anyway. also, alongside visiting alongside with the visiting professor at staffordshire university, tom buick. welcome back get back everybody. let's get straight we? and talk straight in, shall we? and talk about the next topic diversity because badenoch she because kemi badenoch she basically says these basically says all these workplace courses are workplace diversity courses are essentially just snake oil apparently. i mean, don't be under any illusion, right? this is such a massive industry in this country . get is such a massive industry in this country. get this right. the uk employs almost twice as many diversity and inclusion workers per 10,000 employees than any other country. the pubuc than any other country. the public sector. there's more than 10,000 public diversity and inclusion jobs, at a cost of £557 million a year. >> tom buick well, it's the new health and safety officer racket, isn't it? again, you know, i don't, having been a ceo to five organisations since the age of 34, i do take the responsibility that we don't want discrimination in the workplace . and i think training workplace. and i think training on anti discrimination is important, it's just got to important, but it's just got to the point now where, you know ,

the point now where, you know, effectively a whole industry has been sprung up to effectively, you know, coin it out of a lot of companies and some of it may be useful. i don't completely agree with what baden is saying about it's the new snake oil. but that same survey you quoted there, michelle, interestingly, two thirds of british employees also said that they look for a new job if their employer didn't take diversity and inclusion seriously. so there's a there's a generational shift, i think, in the workplace where actually this is something now that people expect. >> kevin. well you know, if you are a if you are an employer , are a if you are an employer, the idea that the quality of many of the people turning up for your job is absolutely, astonishingly awful and the idea that you are because they know they're going to work with you, so they send all the bad ones, right? >> the idea, the idea that you are going to discriminate as a

boss against a clever black person, brown person, somebody from the far east, it's absolutely preposterous. right? what where? it doesn't help very much, actually, funnily enough, is the number of diversity officers that were , and this was officers that were, and this was this was the point, by the way, that the, the, the dyson made to jeremy hunt the other day, the number of diversity people in hospitals is off the scale. and yet and yet the one minority within hospitals is white medical staff. i mean, you know, for 1001 different reasons. so i, i my point about this is we shouldn't need them because we don't have enough good people generally . and i do not believe generally. and i do not believe i know one single boss anywhere who would discriminate against against anybody. they are desperate for good people. >> well, there you go. you'll have some thoughts on that. also, when we're talking about this like diversity, this this new like diversity, this inclusion thing , a story i mean, inclusion thing, a story i mean, we've covered this i think

yesterday, at least on gb news have about have you seen this? it's about the shirts. kelvin's the new england shirts. kelvin's got his ties almost dressed as it, they've come under fire as like, basically they've said that the saint that they've amended the saint george , flag the back of george, flag on the back of these, england strips because they say they want to unite and inspire . this is a playful, inspire. this is a playful, modification on this. >> totally wrong. can you imagine doing that to scotland? can you imagine a scottish, a the people of scotland embracing the people of scotland embracing the change to their flag from blue? honestly, i cannot understand it. and you know what it's about, don't you? it's actually about a people. and we don't need an american company to do this either. we. it's actually about the fact that they look upon that, that red cross as some kind of right or far right , flag. and honestly, far right, flag. and honestly, it is so, so wrong. and, and i see that the faa are, you know, the faa is a correct description

of probably most of the executives in it, but they say that they're sticking by it. they should not stick by it. we should insist on it being changed. >> tom, i think the key point here and boy, calvin's mr angry at the sea isn't he very angry? i think the key point here is, look, this is our our national kit. actually, it's a well—established principle in sport internationally, around the world that the, you know, the world that the, you know, the national kit is not a commercial kit. this should not be, used by nike as. so the latest air jordan range. and latest airjordan range. and they want to show a bit of creative flair. i think that's really the key point. so absolutely terrible idea. >> well, keir starmer is, even he said apparently, that they need reconsider , the make me need to reconsider, the make me laughter because the hypocrisy in all of nike they reckon in all of this nike they reckon what that they want unite and what that they want to unite and inspire. don't make me laugh. this is the same brand that sit there . do you remember, was it there. do you remember, was it mary the, goalkeeper mary earps, the, goalkeeper shirt ? if you want to inspire. shirt? if you want to inspire. they didn't even make replica they didn't even make a replica of shirt they were of her shirt until they were forced to by a public outcry. if

they want to unite, why do they use biological men ? that dylan use biological men? that dylan mulvaney guy to female mulvaney guy to model female women's sports bras? i mean, give me an absolute break. anyway, thank you so much for all of the stories that you've been sending me about your family pictures. i love them, thank you gents, that's all i've got time for farage next. got time for farage up next. have night. night night. have a good night. night night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar, sponsors of weather on . solar, sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> welcome to your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. good evening to you. tomorrow we'll feel colder for all of us. a bit of a damp start in the south, and then a mixture of sun shine and showers. low pressure is dominating, but it's actually sitting up by iceland. but these weather fronts draped across the sitting up by iceland. but these weathis fronts draped across the sitting up by iceland. but these weathis fron'indraped across the sitting up by iceland. but these weathis fron'in particulaross the sitting up by iceland. but these weathis fron'in particular is; the uk, this one in particular is doing of things doing a couple of things bringing and rain, but bringing cloud and rain, but also introducing air. also introducing the colder air. the rain will trickle southwards through this evening across northwest england and wales, a fairly soggy evening and that

rain spreading into the midlands and southwest england. by the end of the night. the far southeast staying mostly dry, staying here, but staying pretty mild here, but colder is arriving across colder air is arriving across the north. chilly start here the north. a chilly start here and very gusty winds through the night. and for most of night. and indeed for most of friday, particularly across northern also into friday, particularly across noriwest also into friday, particularly across noriwest coast also into friday, particularly across noriwest coast of also into friday, particularly across noriwest coast of scotland» into friday, particularly across noriwest coast of scotland .into the west coast of scotland. blustery showers, some snow over the highlands. showers elsewhere for southern scotland. northern ireland a dull, damp morning across southeast and the across the southeast and the rain linger kent well rain may linger in kent well into the afternoon, but elsewhere it will brighten up. we'll see some sunny spells, but it will feel colder temperatures only figures across only in single figures across the north, maybe 11 or 12 further south. quite bit further south. quite a bit chillier than has been chillier than it has been through week. a cold through this week. a cold feeling start to the weekend as well. may start saturday dry well. we may start saturday dry and with the clouds. will and bright with the clouds. will bubble expect showers on bubble up and expect showers on saturday. heavy downpours, saturday. some heavy downpours, rumbles of thunder, hail showers, as well and showers, possible as well and look at the numbers for saturday after being in the teens for most of this week. single digits for many of us, it is going to feel chillier. feel a lot chillier. >> like things are heating

>> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening. well, birth rates in the uk are plummeting, and some think the answer is yet more immigration. but with 2.8 million people off work, sick because of mental health, maybe the answer is to get people back to work. we'll talk pensions. the waspi women have been campaigning again today saying how unfair things have been, and they've got a fair point. yet we now have a two tier pension system where some people are getting more than £3,000 a year than others . how can the whole than others. how can the whole thing be as unfair as this? and joining me on talking pints, well, he's been commentating on

the television