gb news. >> good evening. well, birth rates in the uk are plummeting, and some think the answer is yet more immigration. but with 2.8 million people off work, sick because of mental health, maybe the answer is to get people back to work. we'll talk pensions. the waspi women have been campaigning again today saying how unfair things have been, and they've got a fair point. yet we now have a two tier pension system where some people are getting more than £3,000 a year than others . how can the whole than others. how can the whole thing be as unfair as this? and joining me on talking pints, well, he's been commentating on

the television on horse racing for 40 years. he's negotiated with the ira , believe it or not, with the ira, believe it or not, and he's going to have some top tips for us for the national in a couple of weeks time. derek thompson joins me on talking pints before all of that, pints but before all of that, let's get news with polly let's get the news with polly middlehurst. >> nigel, thank you and good evening to you. well the bank of england has held the interest rate at 5.25% for the fifth time in a row today. the bank of england governor, andrew bailey, saying the economy is not yet at the point where rates can be lowered. but he said things are moving in the right direction. inflation is expected to fall below 2% by the summer, but the bank of england said the conflict in the middle east and disruption to commercial shipping in the red sea risked further price surging . the work further price surging. the work and pensions secretary is warning that britain's acceptance of a mental health culture has now gone too far. speaking as he unveiled plans to

get 150,000 people back to work, mel stride said that the benefits bill was being pushed up benefits bill was being pushed ”p by benefits bill was being pushed up by a sharp increase in the number of people who are on long term sickness benefit . in an term sickness benefit. in an interview with the telegraph, he suggested an increased public focus on talking about mental health issues had led people to self—diagnose. it comes as the welfare bill is set to hit £100 billion. this year. within the last half hour, we've learned that irish government minister simon harris has thrown his hat into the ring to become ireland's next taoiseach , ireland's next taoiseach, announcing he'll put his name forward to become the next leader of fine gael first. it comes a day after leo varadkar's announcement that he was standing down and would step aside taoiseach, once his aside as taoiseach, once his successor was appointed. if he is appointed fine gael leader, mr harris would be expected to formally be elected in april and would be the country's youngest premier at the age of 37. thousands of women born in the

19505 thousands of women born in the 1950s may be eligible for compensation , after a report compensation, after a report found that the department for work and pensions failed to adequately inform them that state pension age was changing, the parliamentary and health service ombudsman looked at potential injustices resulting from the decision to raise women's retirement age, to bring it in line with men's back in 2010, the women against state pension inequality campaign, that's the waspi campaign is suggesting there should be £10,000 in compensation per individual, claiming that the women weren't properly warned about the changes and they couldn't plan for their financial futures . number 10 is financial futures. number 10 is said today. it's dealing with a migration emergency after a record number of asylum seekers crossed the english channel yesterday , 514 illegal migrants yesterday, 514 illegal migrants were picked up by border force officials. that's the highest daily number so far this year. and today we learned at least another 300 migrants were crossing the english channel in

six small boats. the government says it hopes to get its rwanda bill into law by april the 18th, and the home secretary, james cleverly, has said today he's determined to deliver on the government's pledge to stop the boats, meaning a south sudanese man has been jailed for piloting a dangerously overcrowded small boat as it made its way across the channel last august. 31 year old cool pharmaca was caught steering the vessel with 52 migrants balanced on board, many of whom were forced to perch dangerously on both sides. that's the news for the latest stories, do sign up for gp news alerts. scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. common alerts. >> the medical journal the lancet talks about falling birth rates. it talks about them falling across the western world. but of course it talks also about the really quite steep decline here in this country. and it says that the

only way we can deal with this is through open immigration. otherwise, the magazine says we won't be able to sustain economic growth, but they do concede that it will lead to staggering social change. yet an ever increasing number of people are not working . they're being are not working. they're being registered as disabled , and most registered as disabled, and most of them are for reasons of mental health. and it's extraordinary. they can get an extraordinary. they can get an extra £390 a month if they register with mental illness, and they don't even have to go out and look for a job. this is 14 times the number anticipated by the government when it put in this category, called substantial risk of mental health problems in 2011 and into all of this , the pensions all of this, the pensions minister and obviously, i have to say mel stride full marks to you, has said we should not let

normal life anxieties be classified as mental health problems and that the whole thing has gone too far. and he believes we need to get a chunk of those who are claiming these benefits back into the workplace. i have to say, it's not always that i sit here and agree 100% with ministers, but i do on this one. i'd love to get your thoughts. should we get more people back into the workplace who are registered right now as having mental health issues, is that, health issues, or is that, frankly just too tough and unpleasant in 2020 for farage at gbnews.com? please give me your thoughts now i'm joined by paul morland, demographer. paul, give us the facts. give us. let's talk the uk to begin with. yes. give us the facts. >> the facts are that we've had 50 years of what's known as below replacement fertility rate. that means a couple doesn't have two. slightly more than two kids. technically, it's slightly more than two, but effectively you can think of it as two. in a world where almost all kids make it to adulthood,

and that's been going on since the and that's been the early 70s, and that's been accumulating problem. meant accumulating a problem. it meant that when we joined the workforce the 80s, there were workforce in the 80s, there were lots baby boomers lots of us late baby boomers coming through. there weren't that older people retiring that many older people retiring because had because that cohort had been small. had population small. there had been population growth. but eventually it catches up you. and that catches up with you. and that means even though we've got means that even though we've got sluggish economic and sluggish economic growth and mass immigration, we are short of workers in almost every sector and it's only going to get worse. >> but isn't this a fallacy ? you >> but isn't this a fallacy? you know, when the lancet talk about open immigration being the only way to sustain economic growth, surely figures we've seen, surely the figures we've seen, the economic figures we've seen over the course of the last 12 to 18 months actually point out the mass immigration has led to a decrease in productivity and that whilst gdp, the total sum of the economy has grown, gdp per capita , i.e. the per capita, i.e. the individual's real wealth during this period of open immigration, big immigration is declining. >> i think there are two elements. first of all, in terms

of immigration, if we focused immigration on where we actually needed the labour, that would not mean the sort of mass immigration we've seen . we are immigration we've seen. we are getting lots and lots of immigrants, but they are coming for sorts of reasons. many for all sorts of reasons. many of them are dependants, many of them supposedly students. so them are supposedly students. so part one is, if you want to fix this problem with immigration, focus immigration in focus on your immigration in that but there's that respect. but there's another it, which is another angle to it, which is there are two ways of fixing this problem. is, yes, this problem. one is, yes, immigration. other is fixing immigration. the other is fixing the fertility rate. now, we have never had a government in all these years of below these 50 years of below replacement fertility, which has had on this, a comment on had a view on this, a comment on it. you may think, oh, it's it. and you may think, oh, it's only people like viktor orban and putin and the weird and vladimir putin and the weird and vladimir putin and the weird and wonderful dictator, not very wonderful dictators of the left and right of the 30s who worried about these things. actually, macron sees it as a major issue, and you couldn't be much more centrist think centrist than him. so i think urgently and too late. we urgently and much too late. we need bring the debate back to need to bring the debate back to what actually encouraging what about actually encouraging people in this country not to

just say we're too busy, we're too important? we'll skim off the qualified labour of other countries, but we'll actually do our own bit. we'll raise our own children , we'll educate them and children, we'll educate them and we'll bring them into the labour force and a large force as you and i and a large cohort brought in back cohort were brought in back between the 60s and the 80s, and maybe encourage some who are off work on disability benefits because they're suffering from depression, encourage depression, maybe encourage a few to get back to work. few of them to get back to work. >> think that would obviously >> i think that would obviously be wonderful. >> do think we have >> i do think that we have a relatively high participation rate in the labour back rate in the labour force. back in lot of women in the 60s, a lot of women didn't who work. now back didn't work who work. now back in the 80s, unemployment, in the 80s, mass unemployment, that's that's no that's gone, but that's no reason say so. now we've got reason to say so. now we've got all these people with these various health problems, various mental health problems, a my scope, a bit beyond my scope, but clearly where you've got a pool of labour that could go of local labour that could go into workforce , everything into the workforce, everything you to encourage it to go you can do to encourage it to go in very important. in is very important. >> it's a very strong point. >> no, it's a very strong point. and joined down the line by and i'm joined down the line by sharon gaffka, campaigner and ambassador against ambassador for violence against women girls. you know, women and girls. and you know, we've this pattern haven't

we've seen this pattern haven't we, that, you know, 1964, the post—war baby boom ends , but post—war baby boom ends, but then women become more liberated. women go to work , liberated. women go to work, women choose careers. you know, paul was making the point just a moment ago that it wouldn't be a bad thing to encourage women to have more children. what's your take on that ? take on that? >> i mean, you only have to spend five minutes looking at the news in the morning to understand why women aren't having more children. you know, i'm i'm in my late 20s, coming closer to 30. and my parents, my grandparents would have had children and been married by my age. but i the older i get, the less interest i have in having a family. and that's because we are seeing things like the motherhood where there motherhood penalty where there is a disparity between the salaries of women who have children before they're 42, and women who are of a similar education that don't have children. i think it's a 15% difference, and 80% of the gender wage gap is actually

contributed to down the fact that women have children, and i don't want to have to forego my career and i'm penalised if i do, and i'm penalised if i don't. and then we're looking at a childcare crisis. many providers saying that they can't keep up with the demand, many people saying that it costs more to send their child to nursery people saying that it costs more to seiti their child to nursery people saying that it costs more to se it does' child to nursery people saying that it costs more to se it does torild to nursery people saying that it costs more to se it does to payto nursery people saying that it costs more to se it does to pay the ursery people saying that it costs more to se it does to pay the mortgage than it does to pay the mortgage on their home. yeah so i actually think we want to actually think if we want to have having children like have women having children like myself, then we need give myself, then we need to give proper policy in place for those women to be able to maintain their careers and a family life. >> okay, so if government was to say, right, this really is a priority, you know, and paul has given us reasons why, perhaps it should be a priority . and i should be a priority. and i absolutely get your point about childcare . you know, it's so childcare. you know, it's so expensive, it's almost not worth going out to work in many cases. if the government did find a way, somehow of making life easier for those that wanted to have children in terms of the cost, do you think it would encourage more women to have

children ? children? >> i mean, it may encourage more women to have children. i wouldn't encourage me to have a child, i think that there is a big a wider societal issue as to the reason why i don't want to have children. i mean, i very recently was in the dating pool, and a lot of the times there's a phrase now online that we call single married mothers, where women are expected to maintain all of the unpaid labour in their home and in their families, and in their work in the workplace. and then you're penalised by society if you can't maintain both, or either. so i think for me, it wouldn't encourage me at all. >> and i'm sharon for somebody in their 20s. you know what mel stride said at the despatch box today? the minister, you know, overseeing pensions and work, he said that what would be just normal life crises that happen to all of us are now being categorised as being mental health issues . and there are health issues. and there are financial incentives in some ways for people to go on to that

disability register to get an extra £390 a month, and it's mostly young people. this is happening to is there some way, should there be some way that we say to young people, look, you know, you're suffering from short tum? i'm upset. trauma, loss, depression, it happens to every one of us in our life at some point. and actually, what you need to do is pick yourself up and get back to work and be fulfilled rather than going on benefits. or am i saying something that sounds to you that it's completely outdated? >> i mean, in some aspects i consider it to be outdated. >> i can understand that. well, we have to look at what the what we have to look at what the what we consider the normal anxieties of life. you know, when my dad was my age , it was a lot easier was my age, it was a lot easier to buy a home if you went to university. it pretty much guaranteed graduate job. guaranteed you a graduate job. not so much now for young people. and then when you're looking at wanting to start a family, it's too expensive. if you want to look at going on holiday, too expensive. holiday, it's too expensive. the

cost it's too cost of living, it's too expensive. i empathise and expensive. i can empathise and understand why a lot of young people are are suffering from mental problems. and when mental health problems. and when you want to access mental health facilities, funding isn't facilities, the funding isn't there. a lot of people are there. so a lot of people are now to self—diagnosis. now turning to self—diagnosis. i mean, this is like , your other mean, this is like, your other guest this is very much guest said, this is very much out scope because i'm not out of my scope because i'm not a mental health practitioner. but, seen lots of but, you know, i've seen lots of young people who are working in the example , on the the nhs, for example, on the front line during covid, who had to of mental health to sign off of mental health illnesses weren't illnesses because we weren't looking they looking after them when they were workforce. and then were in the workforce. and then they're affordability they're available. affordability to like an adult to be able to live like an adult the way our parents did is the same way our parents did is drastically different. unless drastically different. so unless there's massive change in the drastically different. so unless ther

her point about the cost of child care. and i guess she does have a very good point that in the 50s and 60s, most houses had one income and could live perfectly reasonably. not you know, in the lap of luxury, but perfectly reasonably. and now it's quite tough, isn't it? if you've got children to run a household without both of you working well, it is tough. >> on the other hand, why is it the when have never the case that when we have never been off economically as been better off economically as a indeed, all rich a society, indeed, all rich societies having societies are having this problem . we say we're now richer problem. we say we're now richer than have been, but we can't than we have been, but we can't afford children. i do think it's about priorities , and about people's priorities, and it's about what people want to do with their lives. i totally support idea of helping support the idea of helping women work with women combine work with childbearing. in fact, that's absolutely critical. that's the only way we'll solve this problem. i do believe in helping young with housing and young families with housing and childcare, but we need be childcare, but we need to be careful. that's a good in itself . of scotland have got . parts of scotland have got quite cheap housing. has quite cheap housing. germany has very cheap childcare. both places low

places have got really low fertility, so we should absolutely be supporting young families. we should be supporting women to combine career and family, don't career and family, but don't think that's itself going to solve the problem. what we actually need is a real change of our priorities as a society . of our priorities as a society. >> paul morland, thank you for joining me. well, it is a fascinating debate, and it's one that won't go away. i do not believe that more mass immigration the solution. believe that more mass inmoment,1 the solution. believe that more mass inmoment, sticking;olution. believe that more mass in moment, sticking with on. believe that more mass in moment, sticking with the a moment, sticking with the subject of women, the waspi women are out protesting today, but are the only group but they are not the only group of pensioners suffering suffering. i think terrible inequality our country at the inequality in our country at the moment. in a moment we'll talk about that and the numbers i think will shock you

well, pensions are a very complex business. but in the case of the waspi women, about 3 million women born in the 1950s who thought they were going to get their pension from the age

of 60, suddenly found. no, it was going to be 65. and their complaint is they weren't given enough notice. and the ombudsman today has suggested a level of compensation is awarded to those women. but actually the waspi campaign varne think £10,000 each would be about right. well, given there are 3.6 million of them, that would be about £36 billion, which for a country thatis billion, which for a country that is running a very large annual deficit, would seem to be impossible. they have had, i think, a bit of a rough deal of it. but that's not the only that's not the only inequality that's not the only inequality thatis that's not the only inequality that is happening in pensions. well, i'm joined by rebecca o'connor, director of public affairs at pensionbee . rebecca, affairs at pensionbee. rebecca, i was always found it mysterious that women retired at 60 and men retired at 65, but that dates back from a very different world, doesn't it ? world, doesn't it? >> completely. it dates back to a world where couples were mainly dependent on the husband's income, and also the husband's income, and also the

husband's pension. and generally speaking, it was enough. then for two people to live off one person's state pension entitlement and workplace entitlement and workplace entitlement . but now things have entitlement. but now things have changed as your previous feature was alluding to, more women are in the workplace now , and we're in the workplace now, and we're still not on an equal footing. but you know, things have been changing and i think the waspi issue dates back to a time where there was this assumption that one income was going to be enough for two people, and so many of those women will have beenin many of those women will have been in couples where their expectation . it may seem very expectation. it may seem very old fashioned now, but it was that they would have a pension income, you know, from their husband essentially. of course, that hasn't always borne out because things change in life, and they have found that they have short because their have fallen short because their own state pension entitlement hasn't were hasn't been what they were expecting. and of course, the age expecting to get it age they're expecting to get it has also increased. so different time. the time. but you know, the consequences of being faced now by those women. >> no. and i have sympathy for

them, i genuinely do. they should have been a lot should have been given a lot more notice than they were, you know, tony blair told frank field 25 years ago to go away and think the unthinkable on pensions. and field did pensions. and frank field did and for his trouble. and got sacked for his trouble. so should have acted much so we should have acted much earlier many of these, of earlier in many of these, of these but rebecca, it's these areas. but rebecca, it's not the only injustice in pensions. had a few emails pensions. i've had a few emails coming in from viewers over the last few months , and i was last few months, and i was astonished to find that those who reached pension age before april the 6th, 2016, those are on the old pension, the old state pension compared to the new state pension, and that there is a disparity between the two of up to £2,700. how? on earth has this happened ? earth has this happened? >> it's complicated, but we have moved from the basic state pension system, as you say. that was the pre 2016 version of the state pension to the new state pension. the basic state pension

pays out less, the full amount of basic state pension is currently £8,000. when you compare that to the full new state pension, which is actually going to be way more than £11,000 in a few weeks time. so those people on the basic state pension may be receiving less. now, there are some caveats to this. people who were , who pay this. people who were, who pay the serps pension, which you may remember is no longer a thing, may have more than that on the bafic may have more than that on the basic state pension system , but basic state pension system, but if you were contracted out, you paid those additional state pension contributions into a workplace pension . and so you workplace pension. and so you may have had more through your workplace scheme than you would have had through the basic state pension. so it's not the case that everybody who retired with the basic state pension has less, and everyone who has the new state pension has more . new state pension has more. there some intricacies there were some intricacies around payments around the additional payments that been made and that could have been made and weren't made by everyone. under the system. could have the old system. that could have meant the old meant that people on the old system more incredibly system had more incredibly

confusing. i can remember confusing. yeah i can remember serps payments and i didn't understand them then. >> too sure i do >> and i'm not too sure i do now, but but but but isn't the point, rebecca, that to have a cliff like this, you know, that occurred in 2016 and for it potentially to be as and in quite a lot of cases, it is i understand, £2,700 a year. i mean, this is an inequality. surely >> yeah, it is. and it's something that i hear quite a lot as well. like why does my neighbour have so much more state pension than i do when our circumstances almost circumstances are almost identical in every other way? and, know, you could have and, you know, you could have been on the wrong side of been born on the wrong side of that and, and had less that line, and, and had less pension as a result of just, you know, being born a year earlier. and there is unfairness and so there is unfairness there. there were reasons there. now, there were reasons for the transition to the new state pension. and actually, when comes to women retiring when it comes to women retiring on the new state pension, they typically better off on the new state pension, they typic they better off on the new state pension, they typicthey did better off on the new state pension, they typicthey did on better off on the new state pension, they typicthey did on the atter off on the new state pension, they typicthey did on the basic ff on the new state pension, they typicthey did on the basic state than they did on the basic state pension. so there is some kind

of redress happening there, albeit slowly, in terms of genden albeit slowly, in terms of gender, state pension equality with the new system. but of course, the other thing was you didn't need as many qualifying years on the old scheme. you need 35 years now for the full new pension. so you know, new state pension. so you know, you had to you have to work harder now, but you get more. so you know, where where is the fairness? where is the injustice 7 fairness? where is the injustice ? suppose on ? you know, i suppose on balance, people end up balance, maybe people end up roughly the same. the other thing pension credit. so you thing is pension credit. so you can top up your state pension, if it's on the low side with pension credit. so it's always worth checking eligibility there because that can bring up the lower basic state pension income to something a bit more like what people who are on the new state pension getting. state pension are getting. >> useful advice. it >> that's useful advice. it really is. and finally, on this subject , we've seen pensions subject, we've seen pensions rising pretty much in line with inflation for the last few years. but of course, the levels at which people start to pay tax haven't been rising. fiscal drag, as it's known . so we're

drag, as it's known. so we're going to see, aren't we, within the next couple of years, an awful lot of pensioners dragged back into the taxation system. >> yeah, it's completely bizarre that we may actually find that people are being taxed on their state pensions. eventually, with the rate that the increases are currently running at. so yes, pension is typically have, you know, lower incomes when they're pensioners and when they were working. but as the state pension rises and, you know, whatever is the top up from the private pension , it doesn't it private pension, it doesn't it stays the same. the state pension rising means that people are over that threshold are coming over that threshold for paying tax. so, may many for paying tax. so, you may many pensioners will be surprised by this. may have that this. they may have assumed that they paying no tax they would be paying no tax whatsoever or very little tax , whatsoever or very little tax, the amount that they could actually paying as the state actually be paying as the state pension amount could pension amount rises, could be considerably than considerably higher than they were expecting , and which could were expecting, and which could be a nasty surprise. so it's really important for those approaching state pension approaching the state pension entitlement age to just check how much their income is going

to be, how much tax they're likely to pay, and whether they can through the can manage that through the amount income they're taking amount of income they're taking from private pension from their private pension savings. top. savings. on top. >> there'll be >> yeah. otherwise there'll be some unpleasant letters some very unpleasant letters from hmrc landing people's from hmrc landing on people's mats. very much indeed mats. thank you very much indeed for guiding us through what is always a deeply complicated and for many, upsetting issue. thank you. in a moment, let's have a proper debate trophy hunting. the conservatives put it in their 2019 manifesto we would not be allowed to import trophies of things we'd shot or collected overseas. it disappeared in the house of lords. but it's back. is it the right thing? and why are some african countries really genuinely upset about it

? now it's an emotive 7 now it's an emotive subject. trophy hunting is a very emotive subject. many, many articles ,

subject. many, many articles, many campaigns in newspapers to get it stopped. the conservatives did promise in the manifesto in 2019 that they would. it went through the house of commons. it got stuck in the house of lords. but it's come back and john spellar labour mp for warley. john, you're putting back the same legislation and that would mean that brits who go abroad and, you know, shoot a zebra or whatever it may be, would not be able to bring a trophy back , put the case as to trophy back, put the case as to why this would be a good thing. >> well, firstly, because it's clearly the overwhelming view of the british public government said that in their response to the consultation and indeed also were clear about this, as you rightly said in their in their manifesto, they were went through, went through parliament, got stuck with 1 or 2 people trying to talk it out in the house of lords, ran out of time. >> fortunately, i was able to get a slot for a bill and i'm bringing it back. and the again, the overwhelming support is from the overwhelming support is from the public. now. just earlier i

was doing a programme with another channel and you know, there in the background there was pictures of giraffes walking around. the public cannot understand and why someone would want to go out, shoot a giraffe pose on top of its dead body and then bring its parts back. it's pretty disgusting . we don't pretty disgusting. we don't really want it in this country. >> well, okay. no, you put the case with passion. now the argument against and there is a strong argument against, says that actually any trophy hunting doesn't threaten a single species in africa. poaching certainly does. and there are some terrible things that loss of habitat certainly does. i'm joined down the line by professor amy dickman, director of the wildlife conservation research unit. now, amy, whether you approve of trophy hunting itself , if you do think that it itself, if you do think that it can bring some benefits to africa, don't you ? africa, don't you? >> yes. i mean, i am not a fan of trophy hunting . i've spent my

of trophy hunting. i've spent my entire career trying to reduce wildlife, killing , but i wildlife, killing, but i strongly believe that this bill is well—intentioned as it is . it is well—intentioned as it is. it will actually lead to far more animals dying in horrible ways and will local livelihoods and will harm local livelihoods and will harm local livelihoods and drive far greater and will drive far greater threats to wildlife such as you've mentioned, habitat loss and poaching. and when we talk about, john spellar , there about, john spellar, there mentions this sort of public opinion around the bill. i think that strongly comes because the pubuc that strongly comes because the public politicians have public and politicians have been lied on this topic. they've lied to on this topic. they've been told that trophy hunting is a to species . it isn't. a threat to species. it isn't. it can help protect it actually can help protect against threats , as against far greater threats, as we've talked about, such as habitat loss and poaching. and it's important it's really important that we are not the evidence are led not by the evidence around this. these are horrible images, around sorry, not by images, but around sorry, not by the around this. these the emotion around this. these are images, but are are horrible images, but we are led actual evidence and led by the actual evidence and the of scientific the weight of scientific evidence, which is clear on this topic. botswana is topic. now botswana is a country, john, that feels very strongly about this, a country with a thriving wildlife population in africa, which some don't have. >> and their government have

responded saying that they're responded by saying that they're going 10,000 elephants going to send 10,000 elephants to so brits to london's hyde park. so brits can try living with them. and their argument is that trophy hunting and selective culling is necessary in areas that have got a big elephant population . a big elephant population. >> so are they going to fly them back on planes that have gone to rwanda or something? >> well, that's a separate topic. >> but let let's not get you see, and i do slightly always have a question mark when people are told, well, the public don't know what they're doing and they've been lied to, and therefore that means, well, i'll tell you what, i've been gullible and politicians as well. kenya, for well. you see, kenya, for example, is a country which has, very much restricted shooting. and result, have and as a result, they have a very thriving population, but also they have a very thriving , also they have a very thriving, safari industry of people who go there to shoot animals with cameras, not with rifles and crossbows. >> botswana has both. botswana has both . i mean, john, surely has both. i mean, john, surely the thing that we the thing that would unite the public is what

is best for the animals. and the argument that made in african countries where, you know, a rich american or british businessman will go and pay $50,000, $100,000 to shoot whatever it is, and a film , whatever it is, and a film, whatever it is, and a film, whatever it is, and a film, whatever it may be. the argument is that the revenue from that is what gives the rangers the ability, the money, the resources to stop poaching, which is what's really damaging it. >> hard to say to the poachers, of course, you mustn't shoot these animals, but we'll allow these animals, but we'll allow these rich white people to do so. but not. >> but hang on, hang on. >> but hang on, hang on. >> not withstanding that, hang on, on. on, hang on. >> john. trophy hunters >> john. john, trophy hunters are indiscriminately are not indiscriminately killing. are killing. trophy hunters are being right. that is an being told, right. that is an old elephant that's past breeding you breeding age. that's the one you can shoot. breeding age. that's the one you canthat's. breeding age. that's the one you canthat's very questionable >> that's very questionable because, know, michael because, you know, michael ashcroft, who's not only run a campaign but done a lot of research on issues on, a separate issue, but still the same within this of canned hunting, where where lions in particular are specially bred to be shot in close quarters by, by people. that is appalling . and

people. that is appalling. and i'm sure we wouldn't want people to be bringing those trophies back. but there is another point you mentioned about the particularly the large elephants. yeah, elephants have a social structure. they they have a gene pool. and if you're taking the really big, large elephants with the big tusks and you're shooting, shooting them, you're shooting, shooting them, you're disrupting also the, the gene pool and there does seem to be some evidence and i said that this has to be fully tested, that now elephants are now developing or not developing, but those with smaller tusks are the ones surviving. so we're actually changing the nature of the species and not in a good way . and we also know that way. and we also know that caveat that we also know that, for example, with cecil the lion shot, and this is what really kicked it off with the public, i remember shot with a crossbow, who took a long period to, to die. but there was real disruption to that pride, pride of lions , and that really of lions, and that really

damages the i did caveat it by saying you take out an elephant that was past breeding age. >> so i did caveat that quite carefully. look, i think wildlife management is what we all care about above everything. i'm not sure this bill will i'm not sure that this bill will make good make people feel good about themselves, helps themselves, whether it helps africa it's a hot topic africa or it's a hot topic debate. and thank you for coming in and putting your side of the argument such passion. argument with such passion. >> side the >> the public side of the argument? public are argument? well, the public are very behind this. very strongly behind this. >> i say the point is, what the pubuc >> i say the point is, what the public want to see is thriving wildlife in africa and whatever public want to see is thriving wildwhateverica and whatever public want to see is thriving wildwhateverica abest.1atever public want to see is thriving wildwhateverica abest.1ate\yes, was whatever was best. but yes, it's minority. a minority it's a minority. it's a minority sport, and there are all sorts of minority that would of minority sports that would ban do with ball, ban what we do away with ball, with baiting . with bull baiting. >> we away with bear baiting. >> we yeah, i know we'll all finish up vegan. >> no, we're doing all of those because finish up the public mood change. because we accepted that were from the that these were things from the past were barbarous past and they were barbarous things the past. this is things from the past. this is going happen trophy going to happen to trophy hunting. hunting as well. i hope my bill will be a small step on that way. >> i would be surprised if under

labour don't ban pheasant labour we don't ban pheasant shooting and all sorts of things. and this whole things. and i think this whole debate, is going to go on, debate, this is going to go on, this unites the parties, the conservatives, if someone on conservatives, and if someone on the party like the right of the tory party like michael in michael ashcroft can be in the same camp. >> no, no, no, no, >> no, no, no, no, no, i understand that this is, i guess, an area i get, i get that i don't support it. >> i don't think it helps, but i get the passion now, today the government have declared a migration emergency in the engush migration emergency in the english channel. would you adam and eve it. i was saying that on twitter on articles in the telegraph back in august of 2020, but on top of that, we're now told that the 18th of april is the day that the rwanda legislation will go through . i'm legislation will go through. i'm joined by senior immigration lawyer richard bartram. richard, assuming this legislation does go through the commons on the 18th of april, when could the first flight take off to rwanda? >> well, firstly, i think they've missed a trick. i thought they might delay it for five days and announce it on the

23rd, good old saint george's day, but. but no, the flights are supposed to go off in may, put it this way. i've been defending the rights of migrants and refugees for some 30 years. i don't think i'm going out of business very quickly . what, two business very quickly. what, two weeks ago , we had a proposal to weeks ago, we had a proposal to pay weeks ago, we had a proposal to pay migrants £3,000 to go to rwanda this week. we've had the announcements as regards the utter, utter mess made of the accommodation, moving people out of hotels into , into other of hotels into, into other accommodation, it'll drawn up contracts costing a bundle of money and so may i think is going to be unrealistic . sukh going to be unrealistic. sukh the bill to get it through has so many loopholes holes for well, i we've , we've discussed well, i we've, we've discussed those already, and, yesterday and i mean actually yesterday the 20th 514 migrants entered in ten small boats. those are the ones that are detected. so the syrians isn't actually working. so we are . may i i'd be

so we are. may i i'd be interested to see it and, bring it on, we will see what happens. but i can't see any realistic prospect , unless we have prospect, unless we have chartered the planes already. it's not long, is it, till may? so i don't think that the powers that be who have made such a mess of the whole issue thus far . and this is my money. i'm a taxpayer. you know, i might defend refugees and migrants, but i pay my taxes, etc, and this is my money being wasted on this, so sceptical. roy is this, so i'm sceptical. roy is like me will be defending it and it isn't deterring anybody. so yeah, well, richard may yeah, i suspect you're right. >> i suspect it's going to be very for good your business indeed.thank very for good your business indeed. thank you forjoining indeed. thank you for joining me. after the break. thank you. after the break, it's time for talking pints i'm joined by derek thompson. he's been commentating on horse racing for 40 years. he's negotiated with the over the kidnapped the ira over the kidnapped shergar, and he's got some top

tips for us, for the national andindeed tips for us, for the national and indeed for the next few weeks.

it's that time of the week. and i'm joined by derek thompson on talking pints. derek, welcome to the program . are you? well, the program. are you? well, i thought you were this. for those that haven't watched derek, this has been his catchphrase for many, many, many, many years now , derek, little story says that you go to the races. you're about six years old and you pick all six winners. that's true. and i think as a parent, i think this is the worst nightmare come true. he's going to think so. was it i mean, was it love of horses and riding? was it there right from the start? it was. my dad took me to stockton racecourse when i was six years old, we went through the card. >> we had five winners and i think we won £9, 17 and

tuppence. well, in those days and it was great and i was hooked. not betting hooked. not not the betting side. it's horse's side, the side. it's the horse's side, the jockey side, the training side. it's everything combined. and i spent my life going to race meetings around the world. i'm going to dubai next week for the dubai world cup. i'm so lucky. you know, i'm at newcastle tomorrow night commentating. yeah. great have to yeah. so it's great you have to work a living. i go racing, work for a living. i go racing, it sounds good. >> you, and you rode a bit too, didn't you? >> yeah, i rode with. i rode a winner at plumpton one day about 40 years ago. and the guy who finished second to me is now king charles. yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. >> oh, now that is pretty cool, isn't it? >> it's incredible . but nicky >> it's incredible. but nicky henderson, who trained the horse. yeah. who became champion trainer. he just starting off. and so i had one ride, one winner, 100% strike rate. and i said to tony mccoy the other day, i said, what was your strike rate for nicky henderson? he said, 38. i said, 100% can't

be back. >> get out. i went one year ahead. >> but he said, yeah, but he ever wondered why he never asked you back for another ride? >> and it was through, you know, early riding that you struck up this with bob this friendship with bob champion, become champion, who's become a lifelong friend of yours and has sat that very yes, sat in that very chair. yes, yes. >> pints. he sends >> on talking pints. he sends his best, by the way. >> yeah. and what i mean, that is an amazing racing story. i mean, those that don't know mean, for those that don't know it in nutshell, just it in a nutshell, just incredibly, when were 9 or incredibly, when we were 9 or 10 years old, went to redcar years old, we went to redcar races we were interviewed by races and we were interviewed by john rickman. >> remember itv? >> do you remember the old itv? hello, good afternoon, welcome to the jockey didn't to races. and the jockey didn't turn for interview, so he turn up for an interview, so he interviewed us two kids my interviewed us two kids and my brother to brother howard, and he said to me, what do you want be when me, what do you want to be when you i said, i want to you grow up? i said, i want to be a horse racing commentator like you. and he said to bob, who ten years old, and what who was ten years old, and what do you to be when you grow do you want to be when you grow up? he said, to the up? he said, i want to ride the winner of grand national winner of the grand national really? he did. but the really? and he did. but the story, you know, he recovered from cancer. he rang me from america. he was on holiday. he didn't smoke and

didn't drink, didn't smoke and said, to come i'm said, i've got to come back. i'm not right. and he'd fallen off a horse at the last fence, chased after and the horse had after it, and the horse had kicked him the legs. kicked him between the legs. yeah. and i picked him up at heathrow, him to hospital yeah. and i picked him up at hea'they, him to hospital yeah. and i picked him up at hea'they said, him to hospital yeah. and i picked him up at hea'they said, you've) hospital yeah. and i picked him up at hea'they said, you've) ho nine. and they said, you've got nine months unless you have months to live unless you have this treatment which had this cancer treatment which had just and the just been invented and the treatment killed treatment nearly killed him. but he came back and he rode the winner the grand national. yeah. >> 1981. a horse that >> in 1981. a horse that probably should would probably should have would normally with normally have been put down with a broken leg. amazing. that 81 story was an amazing story. >> and the bob champion cancer trust, up, >> and the bob champion cancer trust, up, he's trust, which was set up, he's raised £15 million for raised over £15 million for cancer sufferers. incredible man i >> -- >> that is absolutely incredible. you've committed 40 years of commentating. and i even wondered what makes what makes a good commentator. now there's a catchphrase. let's hearit there's a catchphrase. let's hear it again. are you well, i thought you were . thought you were. >> you know what? me, the peter o'sullivan greatest commentator of all time, bill mclaren, who is my late father in law, he was the greatest rugby commentator of all time. and i remember when

i went to see him in, in hawick for the first time, and he took me into his dining room and there was a massive sheet of papen there was a massive sheet of paper, and england were playing scotland at murrayfield and he had everything and it was covered in all little tidbits about the players. a bit about all of the players. a bit like yourself. he does his homework, do your work and i still do to this day. so tomorrow night i'll do all my colours crayons and i'll do colours with crayons and i'll do them draw order. so that's them in draw order. so that's how do it. how i do it. >> homework and still loving >> my homework and still loving it. >> i'm so lucky. >> i'm so lucky. >> no it shows. it shows now. not anyone . the nationals won by not anyone. the nationals won by all dan azeez. yeah, but there's all dan azeez. yeah, but there's a flat race called the derby, and in 81 that's won by a horse called shergar who a very, called shergar who was a very, very highly derby winner , very highly rated derby winner, went off to county kildare to stud, potentially worth an absolute fortune. and then in the midst of all of this , the the midst of all of this, the ira kidnapped the horse. demand a £3 million ransom. the research party is all over ireland, you know. i mean, front pages of national newspapers

dominated and into the middle of these complicated negotiations with the ira. somehow we find derek thompson. how? why? what happened? it's crazy. >> i was asleep in my hotel. i was presenting a programme called team sport for thames tv, and i was staying in london next to regent's park. and 2:00 in the morning the phone went, hello, is that derek thompson? yeah, thought it was drunk yeah, i thought it was a drunk or something. he rang back. or something. and he rang back. he no, this so—and—so he said, no, this is so—and—so from the association in from the press association in fleet street, the kidnappers of shergar. to fly shergar. i want you to fly across morning to across tomorrow morning to negotiate the release. what? i didn't go back to sleep. we flew across the following morning with lord oaksey. my old with lord oaksey. yeah, my old channel colleague, racing channel 4 colleague, racing presenter . channel 4 colleague, racing presenter. what great man. and presenter. what a great man. and we the europa hotel and we went to the europa hotel and the europa bombed hotel in europe. >> i mean, their hotel in europe. >> and as soon as we walked in, there was a phone call for mr thompson. and i picked up the hotel phone and it was a voice. i'll never forget. and he said, i'm watching you from across the street, i'm looking out. and street, and i'm looking out. and this was in the height of the troubles. to

troubles. you wouldn't go to belfast for a holiday, know. troubles. you wouldn't go to bel1and:or a holiday, know. troubles. you wouldn't go to bel1and hea holiday, know. troubles. you wouldn't go to bel1and he told iday, know. troubles. you wouldn't go to bel1and he told iday,you know. troubles. you wouldn't go to bel1and he told iday,you go ow. troubles. you wouldn't go to bel1and he told iday,you go to. no. and he told me, you go to this lonely farmhouse 30 miles outside of belfast. i was outside of belfast. so i was surrounded all the press. so surrounded by all the press. so obviously police there. obviously the police were there. we ran through the kitchen, jumped police car and drove we ran through the kitchen, jumjwe police car and drove we ran through the kitchen, jumjwe got police car and drove we ran through the kitchen, jumjwe got lostice car and drove we ran through the kitchen, jumjwe got lost outsideind drove we ran through the kitchen, jumjwe got lost outside of drove and we got lost outside of belfast in the middle of the troubles. it was quite frightening. and three guys in balaclavas and machine guns jumped out in front of the car and obviously stopped straight away and the guy came round to my side. i was in the front seat and he went like that with his machine gun. so i wound down the window all could see were window and all i could see were eyes, a mouse and a machine gun pointing at me. he said, are you derek thompson ? yes. what a derek thompson? yes. what a question. >> yeah . >> yeah. >> yeah. >> he said, we're the police. i said, thanks for that. he said, drive over the top of the hill. drive in the farmhouse running. we've got it surrounded. and it was the farmhouse of maxwell's, the, the trainers and, over the next 12 hours, i think i did about 12 phone calls, with the

supposed kidnappers of shergar. yeah. and at half past midnight, the last call came through, and i kept the guy on for about one minute, 35 seconds. and. and the police were sitting next to me, and when the phone went dead, i said, did you trace the call? he said, did you trace the call? he said, no. the man who traces the calls went off shift at midnight. so and then the call came through at seven in the morning. the horse has had an accident. he's and accident. yeah, he's dead and was found . was never found. >> gosh, what an extraordinary thing, derek, to get caught up in the middle of absolutely extraordinary . extraordinary. >> 40 years on, i still remember every. i bet you it was frightening. i bet you can. you know, i just wish we could have found the. yeah. >> i'd like, you know, and like your great mate bob champion, you've had a pretty nasty brush with cancer as well. >> my bowel cancer. >> yeah. my bowel cancer. yeah. not fun , but it's amazing. not much fun, but it's amazing. bob had cancer. i had cancer, and we both recovered from it incredible. and i made a mine. came to see me, and i was sort

of lying at home, you know, feeling terrible after all the chemo. and he said you tried sort of going back to work a little bit, you know, i'm thinking , little bit, you know, i'm thinking, you little bit, you know, i'm thinking , you know, little bit, you know, i'm thinking, you know, i can't little bit, you know, i'm thinking , you know, i can't even thinking, you know, i can't even get off the settee. yeah. and i took his advice. it was a guy called higgy, and i did it. so i started opening betting shops. going back just gently easing. and did it , going back just gently easing. and did it, you see i suppose if, if work is not really work because you love it, that's the thing. >> it's kind of a therapy for you anyway. now the, the viewers, i can't say punters, can i? the viewers , you can for can i? the viewers, you can for me, the viewers. i was at cheltenham last week, didn't didn't have a winner but had a very good day. yeah, lovely day , very good day. yeah, lovely day, we've got the national coming up. we've got the big classics coming up in just a few months time. what should we be looking for in the national? >> derek thompson, there's a horse. well, cora scrambler won the race last year, lucinda russell trains the horse in scotland . she is. absolutely. scotland. she is. absolutely. oh, got already? yeah.

oh, you've got it already? yeah. well done. ahead the well done. you're ahead of the game, nigel. ahead of the game, nigel. you're ahead of the game. third in the game. and third in the cheltenham gold cup. that's pretty respectable form. so correct rambler should the correct. rambler should be the one but as we know, the one to beat. but as we know, the grand national is a lottery. and what was the name the first what was the name of the first winner the grand national lottery? >> yeah, 18. just 1837. that's right. yeah, yeah, yeah, i wasn't there. yeah, yeah, i believe you, i believe you, i believe you, i believe you, i believe you, i believe you, i believe you, lord oaksey may have been, but, so that's the one we're going to look forward to. and derek, you know, you're off to newcastle working tomorrow night. yeah. and you've written your life written a book about your life and the ups and downs and that extraordinary shagger incident. what's it called? >> too busy to die . >> too busy to die. >> too busy to die. >> too busy to die. >> too busy to die by derek thompson. you can get it on amazon. and, derek, i have to say, it's quite extraordinary stories and what a life you've had, what a career you've had . had, what a career you've had. >> well, it's good because it's true. too busy to die because let's get on with life. let's get working . because if you get working. because if you don't work, you don't earn. it's as simple as that. same as you.

absolutely. if you don't get out of bed in the morning, nobody's going to pay you to lie in bed. >> i'll be getting i'll be getting up early in the morning. >> you're incredible. and you did week. you've been did this week. you've been to america yes yeah. but america and back. yes yeah. but you like you, i enjoy work. you see, like you, i enjoy work. it's great. >> aren't we lucky? >> aren't we lucky? >> lucky. >> aren't we lucky? >> and lucky. >> aren't we lucky? >> and by lucky. >> aren't we lucky? >> and by the lucky. >> aren't we lucky? >> and by the way,. >> aren't we lucky? >> and by the way, very good interview with trump. >> good on thompson. >> thank you. good on thompson. thank for joining on thank you for joining me on talking pints. i wonder talking pints. now i wonder jacob rees—mogg, what mel stride was about house was talking about in the house of really what of commons today is really what derek's saying, isn't it? that if you depressed and get if you get depressed and get down and put yourself on a register of having, you know, a mental health issue, it's mental health issue, when it's just and downs of just the normal ups and downs of life, work can be a life, actually work can be a good thing. >> i think work is a very >> oh, i think work is a very good thing. and male mental health closely health problems are closely associated unemployment. associated with unemployment. i think they think when men are working, they are it. yeah are very happy doing it. yeah >> of which, what will >> talking of which, what will you discussing this evening? you be discussing this evening? >> about a new tax >> i'm talking about a new tax that's going to be brought in to augn that's going to be brought in to align european align us with the european union. more union. makes goods more expensive british. the expensive for the british. the carbon adjustment expensive for the british. the carbon itadjustment expensive for the british. the carbon it combinest mechanism. it combines everything we don't like high

tax greenery and following tax mad greenery and following slavishly european union. slavishly the european union. >> i think basis of >> well, i think on the basis of that, just the first. and that, that's just the first. and i might just pop over the road. right. well, that's the end of my broadcasting week. i'm buying, i'll see you on monday. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news. >> welcome to your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. good evening to you tomorrow we'll feel colder for all of us. a bit of a damp start in the south and then a mixture of sunshine and showers. low pressure is dominating but it's actually sitting up by iceland. but these weather fronts draped across the uk, this one in particular is doing a couple of things bringing and rain, but bringing cloud and rain, but also introducing colder air. also introducing the colder air. the will trickle southwards the rain will trickle southwards through this evening across northwest england and wales, a fairly soggy evening and that rain spreading into the midlands and southwest england. by the

end of the night. the far southeast staying mostly dry, staying here, but staying pretty mild here, but colder arriving across colder air is arriving across the a chilly start here the north. a chilly start here and gusty winds through the and very gusty winds through the night. and indeed for most of friday, particularly across northern , but also northern scotland, but also into the coast scotland. the west coast of scotland. blustery showers . some snow over blustery showers. some snow over the highlands. elsewhere the highlands. showers elsewhere for scotland . northern for southern scotland. northern ireland a dull, damp morning across southeast the across the southeast and the rain may linger in kent well into afternoon, but into the afternoon, but elsewhere it will brighten up. we'll see some sunny spells, but it will feel colder temperatures only single figures across only in single figures across the north, maybe or 12 the north, maybe 11 or 12 further south. quite a bit chillier it has been chillier than it has been through this week. cold through this week. a cold feeling start the weekend as feeling start to the weekend as well. start saturday dry well. we may start saturday dry and with cloud will and bright with a cloud will bubble expect showers on bubble up and expect showers on saturday. heavy downpours , saturday. some heavy downpours, rumbles thunder, hail showers rumbles of thunder, hail showers possible and look at the possible as well and look at the numbers for saturday. after being in the teens for most of this week. single digits for many of it is going to feel many of us, it is going to feel a chillier. a lot chillier. >> brighter with boxt >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> hello. good evening. it's me. jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation. tonight, the chancellor of the exchequer today held consultations on the introduction of a carbon levy on goods imported from lower cost countries. why does that matter? it will make you poorer and tie britain into permanent realignment with the brussels bureaucracy . the chairman of bureaucracy. the chairman of dorset's fire and rescue authority described her own force as institutionally racist. but when my fellow gb news presenter lee anderson asked her to explain herself , she said she to explain herself, she said she would, have to get back to him. we'll be delving into institutional racism with femi nylander. a report has recommended that waspi women receive compensation. but don't people have some responsibility for their own financial affairs