or not. also, are these votes meaningless or meaningful? will they actually change anything at all? also speaking of gaza, luton town hall has been flying the palestinian flag. i can tell you now opinion on that one is certainly divided. where are you on it? also uk housing has been described as the worst value for money of any advanced economy. what on earth has gone wrong here? and aid uk have warned that the increasing digitisation of pretty much everything, quite frankly, is alienating the elderly. do you agree with that or not? and my favourite story. i've been desperate to talk to you about this for three days now. tonight finally will be my chance. some criminals will be required to wear high vis jackets now and clean up the community that they have damaged. i this is damaged. i think this is absolutely fabulous , but other absolutely fabulous, but other people are saying it's wrong to humiliate the criminals. this way. your thoughts ? we'll get

way. your thoughts? we'll get stuck into all of that and more. but before we do, let's cross live for tonight's latest news headlines. >> michelle. thank you. good evening. in the united states tonight, president biden says the search and rescue operation is the top priority after a ship crashed into baltimore's main bridge. with all traffic now into the busy port remaining on hold. if you're watching on television, this is the moment the francis scott key bridge in baltimore was hit at around 130 in the morning local time , in the morning local time, plunging cars, their drivers and road workers into the water below with no warning. the ship's crew, we understand, had notified the authorities of what's being described as a power outage on board, prompting contract runs. sorry, construction workers on the bndge construction workers on the bridge at the time to try to stop more traffic from driving

onto the collapsing bridge. let's show you the scene in baltimore this afternoon where those six construction workers remain unaccounted for. president biden has promised an immediate response from the federal government. >> we're going to send all the federal resources they need as we respond to this emergency and i mean all the federal resources, and we're going to rebuild that port together. everything so far indicates that this was a terrible accident. at this was a terrible accident. at this time, we have no other indication, no other reason to believe there was any intentional act here. personnel on board the ship were able to alert the maryland department of transportation they had transportation that they had lost vessel , transportation that they had lost vessel, as lost control of their vessel, as you all know and reported. as a result, local authorities were able to close the bridge to traffic before the bridge was struck, which undoubtedly saved lives . lives. >> president biden, talking about the baltimore bridge collapse there now here at home, a former british museum curator has been ordered by the high court to return stolen artefacts within four weeks. doctor peter higgs, who was dismissed from

his conduct, faces allegations of theft and damage to over 1800 historical items, accusations he denies . the historical items, accusations he denies. the courts historical items, accusations he denies . the courts also ordered denies. the courts also ordered mr higgs to disclose records from his ebay and paypal accounts. following claims he listed the hundreds of stolen items for sale online. the director of russia's security service says the uk, ukraine and the united states are responsible for last week's terror attack near moscow, though he provided absolutely no evidence at least 139 people lost their lives when gunmen stormed a concert hall on friday and the terror group islamic state claimed responsibility. russian president vladimir putin has admitted that radical islamists carried out the attack, but continues to insist that ukraine was involved, allegations kyiv denies , gb news allegations kyiv denies, gb news can reveal today the number of small boats crossing the english channel so far this year is now

25% higher than at the same point last year. another five small boats made the crossing this morning, with almost 300 illegal migrants on board, including a number of children. it takes the total number of migrants who've made the dangerous journey so far this year to just under 4600. that's up from 3700 at the same point last year . a mini reshuffle has last year. a mini reshuffle has taken place in downing street following the departure from government of james heale lee and robert halfon. we've heard in the last couple of hours that nus ghani becomes minister for europe. leo docherty is minister for the armed forces to replace him. kevin hollinrake moves to be for minister business and trade and luke hall takes education. alamak becomes under—secretary of state in business and trade and the cabinet office . chemical attack cabinet office. chemical attack suspect abdul ezedi was granted asylum in the uk by a judge ,

asylum in the uk by a judge, despite concerns that the sex offender was a proven liar, with a criminal past. a range of previously confidential documents show for the first time, the lengths ezedi went to prove he was a christian convert. as eddie's body was pulled from the river thames last month amid a major manhunt after he was suspected of dousing his ex—girlfriend with a corrosive chemical . julian corrosive chemical. julian assange, his wife, says a decision to delay a final appeal on his extradition to the united states is utterly bizarre. us authorities have been asked to provide assurances on whether the wikileaks founder can rely on the american first amendment, which provides a right to free speech, or whether he may face a death penalty. a further hearing will now be held in may. it's after the disclosure of national defence information relating to the afghanistan and iraq wars. stella assange says today's a delay is an attack on press freedoms , but the courts have freedoms, but the courts have done have been to invite a

political intervention from the united states to send a letter saying it's all okay. >> i find this astounding five years into this case, the united states has managed to show the court that their case remains an attack on press freedom and an attack on press freedom and an attack on press freedom and an attack on julian's life . attack on julian's life. >> all the latest news stories for the top stories, do sign up for the top stories, do sign up for gb news alerts. scan the qr code on the screen right now or go to gb news .com/ alerts . go to gb news .com/ alerts. >> thanks very much for that. polly and michelle dewberry . and polly and michelle dewberry. and i'm keeping you company till 7:00 tonight alongside me, my panel 7:00 tonight alongside me, my panel, the former brexit party mep anunciata rees—mogg and the former adviser to jeremy corbyn, james schneider. good evening to both of you. and you know the drill date on this programme.

it's not just about us three. it's not just about us three. it's very much about you guys at home as well. what's on your mind tonight? you can get in touch all usual touch with us all the usual ways. vaiews@gbnews.com is how you or you tweet you email me. or you can tweet me at gb news. and yes, i know it's called x before you all start telling me it's just not not really on that. not really moved on with that. for will be twitter for me it will always be twitter anyway. thoughts. anyway. tell me your thoughts. did just see that horrendous did you just see that horrendous situation there in the headlines? the collapse of that bndge headlines? the collapse of that bridge in baltimore? i mean, it is absolutely staggering. i'm not an overly religious person , not an overly religious person, i must confess, but sometimes i look at things and i think people must want out there. but for the grace of god go. i, of course, the mayday call was issued and luckily lots of vehicles were actually stopped being prevented actually being on that bridge at that time. i mean , that disaster could have mean, that disaster could have been much, much worse. of course , they are still searching for people, and i obviously hope that we have the happiest ending

that we have the happiest ending thatis that we have the happiest ending that is possible. but it's just incredible, isn't it? you see it. it's like something out of a movie, yeah. very sad. anyway, let's move on and talk about, matters that really have divided people , we're in a situation now people, we're in a situation now where we've had , the first un where we've had, the first un security council resolution that have called essentially for a ceasefire in gaza . now, david ceasefire in gaza. now, david cameron has come under fire because, of course , one of the because, of course, one of the countries that voted for that was the uk. in fact, actually, out of the 1514 countries voted for it, the only one that didn't was the us. there's lots i want to unpick here. i want to look at whether or not these votes are meaningful or meaningless. i want to look at whether or not the uk was right to avert it in the uk was right to avert it in the way it did. and then there's a couple of interesting things that to it back to that i want to bring it back to in this country about this conflict. first all, do conflict. but first of all, do you uk was right to you think the uk was right to vote way that they did? vote the way that they did? >> no, because i think it gives credence to a meaningless vote. >> no, because i think it gives cred thee to a meaningless vote. >> no, because i think it gives cred the us a meaningless vote. >> no, because i think it gives

cred the us abstained, less vote. >> no, because i think it gives cred the us abstained, less with and the us abstained, and with good in my view, that good reason, in my view, that this is resolution 200. sorry 2728 from the un. how much power have the previous 2500 had? how much have they actually changed? and i think the un should act when there are really important things that they can affect. and this is not one of them. so >> so what, you don't think they should have had the vote at all? do you? >> i think it's meaningless that they any power to they don't have any power to backit they don't have any power to back it up. it doesn't make any practical difference. everyone has been calling for release of hostages and a ceasefire that can be made sustainable. since this tragedy. a horrific incident happened on the 7th of october. this isn't going to change anything, but i think by taking part, countries like the uk give it a credence it doesn't deserve. james do you agree with that? >> no, not at all, first, lee, we have an international system where states try to uphold

internal law and security, and that's what's happened through this vote. and yes, of course, what's really required is the us and its little brothers like the uk and germany, to stop arming israel. so it is, is no longer able to carry on its genocidal assault on the people of gaza. but but there can be sanctions that are placed on israel within the un system if it fails to comply with a security council vote. so i think if we don't say that they're useless in all other circumstances . and fair other circumstances. and fair enough, if annunciator says that the un security council is useless,, then that is a position. but if you say that it has value in some circumstances, but not this. i mean, right now what is happening is an a, an atrocious crime. more children have been killed in this conflict in the last five months and have been killed in all of the last five years. in all the conflicts in the world, you have tens of thousands of innocents who are being killed. there are over million people who face

over a million people who face starvation , a famine, being used starvation, a famine, being used as weapon of war. i think when as a weapon of war. i think when something so large happening, something so large is happening, it ridiculous for the it would be ridiculous for the world only through the mechanisms that it has to not be involved. >> you not only are conveniently forgetting why israel is doing this in gaza, but also that in fact, this this resolution is calling in the very first instance on hamas to release all of the hostages . they are not of the hostages. they are not listening to the un. it is therefore pointless for the un to just pontificate when it can't actually do anything to make any difference. now, that argument would make some sense if you said the everyone has to listen to the un. and therefore, it you by the same token, it's pointless telling israel that it should stop using starvation as a weapon of war in terms of getting the hostages released. >> the best way to do that is to

have a negotiation to release the hostages. of course, the hostages should be released. it is a crime to take civilians, but you know what has actually hamas said that they will negotiate for the hostages. some have already been released . and have already been released. and there was some have been. there was an exchange of prisoners. there was. and in the same penod there was. and in the same period of time, the prisoners on the other side or actual criminals, there is a very big no, no, no, that is, that is that that is not true. there are thousands. there over 6000 thousands. there are over 6000 palestinian prisoners palestinian political prisoners that have not faced trial, that are in administrative detention, many of them are are children . many of them are are children. many of them are young boys throwing a stone at a tank or that sort or that sort of thing raided in their homes while they're being ethnically cleansed from from the west bank. these people are also hostages, and they should be released. the hostages, of course, should be released. there should be there should be an but you do not need an exchange. but you do not need to continue the destruction, the destruction of a people in order

to have the hostages. >> please tell me the question was how important and was this resolution? what difference has it made? what difference will it make? aid i agree with, but that should have been done anyway. but what difference does it make to the people of gaza or the people of israel? of now ? people of israel? as of now? >> it does make a difference because what we have seen through this process is a moving of line of the countries of the line of the countries that support israel and in the ways in which they do support israel, an effect not israel, that has an effect not only on those countries, but also businesses that also on businesses that do that are with israel's war machine. >> and the us did not support this resolution? >> no, but the for the first time, the us didn't didn't veto . time, the us didn't didn't veto. they did for the first time, they didn't veto it. and that in itself is significant. and the reason why they didn't veto it is because the unbelievable pressure that has been brought to bear in support of ending this destruction, both within the , huge protests, many of the us, huge protests, many of them led by jewish groups and organisations. >> oh, have been horrific

>> oh, there have been horrific events alongside that , that how events alongside that, that how horrific the anti—semitic attacks that have rocketed, the arson attack that was just last week that we are seeing a lot of violence that we none of us want to see in our own countries. no, of course, an issue a long way away that we have a moral duty to support in, but not one to we have a moral duty. >> we are complicit in this conflict because britain arms israel and provides it diplomatic support and diplomatic support and diplomatic cover and if they weren't able to protect themselves, hamas would have achieved its aim of wiping israel off the map. i'm firstly, israel off the map. i'm firstly, israel can defend itself. that's the first point, but not without not unless someone's providing it with arms. secondly, the reason why hamas exists, the reason why hamas exists, the reason why hamas exists, the reason why there are resistance organisations in in palestine is because that is a colonial

occupation that hasn't been resolved for 75 years. the palestinian people have been dispossessed and denied. they have been ethnically cleansed . have been ethnically cleansed. they have been chased from their land. why? >> the un is wasting its time that this is an incredibly complicated and long standing intractable issue where two lots of people do not want to live next door to each other. you can add lots more details to that, but that's the fundamental issue. >> it's not very complicated. it's really not very complicated. >> un complicated. >> u n pontificating complicated. >> un pontificating in this way is not going to change that at all. >> it's not pontificate anyway. look, i the, the argument about how, how much teeth the un have of course , i mean, not not very of course, i mean, not not very much. we have a global system which is structured basically to permit things that shouldn't be happening, to carry on happening . however, the fact that mozambique, which drafted the resolution, got together the then non—permanent members of then non—permanent members of the security council to bring it

forward, does show that the balance of world opinion is hugely on the side of a ceasefire, is hugely against the crimes that the state of israel is committing now and has been committing for decades, and the moral pendulum has swung from now. the global north to the global south. they are the ones that are leading, on behalf of humanity as a whole, to stand against these crimes that are taking place, which are historic crimes and which are a stain on humanity as a whole. >> but then what's going to stop this then? because we can sit there and we can say that the un resolution is it meaningless? is it you know, people sitting resolution is it meaningless? is it this you know, people sitting resolution is it meaningless? is it this country»w, people sitting resolution is it meaningless? is it this country going)ple sitting resolution is it meaningless? is it this country going one sitting resolution is it meaningless? is it this country going on marches in this country going on marches and not just this country, but much than this country, much broader than this country, what's going to draw what's actually going to draw a halt this? what's actually going to draw a hal'there is? there what's actually going to draw a hal'thereis? there are many >> there are there are many things that people can do if they're sitting i mean, they're sitting here. i mean, yes, course there's political yes, of course there's political pressure, there's going on marches. are companies marches. there are companies which complicit israel's which are complicit in israel's war probably several war machine, probably several hundred people hundred of them. many people sitting work in sitting at home will work in them. not know that

them. they may not know that they work in them. there are things people in things that people can do in their there their workplace. there are things people do things that people can do politically. things politically. there are things that people can do to blockade arms to put pressure that people can do to blockade arrus to put pressure that people can do to blockade arr us to to put pressure that people can do to blockade arrus to no to put pressure that people can do to blockade arrus to no longer put pressure that people can do to blockade arr us to no longer send 3ressure that people can do to blockade arrus to no longer send armsire that people can do to blockade arr us to no longer send arms to on us to no longer send arms to israel. all of these things have effect. all of these things which people have already been doing very bravely, doing all over us to over the world, has got us to this point, has got to this this point, has got us to this point where the british government off by government started off by saying, do what it saying, israel can do what it likes, and now we've got a position where at least the foreign secretary being foreign secretary is being criticised the right his foreign secretary is being critparty the right his foreign secretary is being critparty voting right his foreign secretary is being critparty voting for, tl his foreign secretary is being critparty voting for, you his foreign secretary is being critparty voting for, you know, for party voting for, you know, common and decency. common sense and decency. but everything you've just described, said, described, though, when i said, how stop it? how do you stop it? >> everything just >> everything you've just described, to put described, then is to put pressure israel for them pressure on israel for them to stop activity. people stop their activity. many people watching, doing the bombing. >> they are doing starvation >> they are doing the starvation . many people, they are doing the watching. the many people watching. >> will say, well, >> this will say, well, actually, in gaza , people actually, over in gaza, people could come together and essentially and root out essentially try and root out hamas . they could be putting hamas. they could be putting pressure on, get rid of hamas, put on to hamas to put pressure on to hamas to release, ducking the bombs and eating grass. release, ducking the bombs and eating grass . well, is it as

eating grass. well, is it as simple as that, though? is it as simple as that, though? is it as simple as that, though? is it as simple as every single person in palestine is so oppressed and can't actually do anything to affect their outcomes? is it? that's a question. it's not an insinuation . no. insinuation. no. >> the question. no. i mean, as well, the palestinian people in gaza, the west bank, the refugee camps, east jerusalem , east camps, east jerusalem, east jerusalem in the diaspora, they, of course, struggle for their own national liberation and self—determination of course, they do that every single day. but that they don't have to do that alone, especially when we are sitting here in a country which is complicit in these crimes that are taking place. i mean, really horrific crimes are taking place, right now. the number of people who have died is expand . and is going to expand. and horrifically, you look horrifically, when you look at the , when you look, the malnutrition, when you look, the malnutrition, when you look, the weather is going to change and cholera is quite likely to break out. i mean, the humanitarian situation is extreme , and that's why it extreme, and that's why it merits the of radical merits the kind of radical action, must say. action, i must say. >> i know many people will >> and i know many people will disagree me at home. i've disagree with me at home. i've

never all never felt comfortable with all of these protests being described marches and described as hate marches and stuff because i've stuff like that, because i've always maintained so many people stuff like that, because i've alwea; maintained so many people stuff like that, because i've alwea normal|ined so many people stuff like that, because i've alwea normal ,1ed so many people stuff like that, because i've alwea normal , everyday|ny people stuff like that, because i've alwea normal , everyday people. le just a normal, everyday people. i'm sure that there are some hate filled people among them , hate filled people among them, but people, they see but so many people, they see everything in everything that's going on in palestine , particularly, when it palestine, particularly, when it comes children and those comes to the children and those children being killed and maimed and orphaned. and it just i mean, i've got goose pimples, even just saying that it just galvanises your everyday person to the street and try to take to the street and try and stop it . where do sit on and stop it. where do you sit on it? i want to bring it back it? and i want to bring it back to the uk after the break because over in the because over in luton, the palestinian flag now been palestinian flag now has been flown town hall there flown from the town hall there in solidarity with gaza. i can tell you now that has divided opinion. where are you on that, you see me if you're just you can see me if you're just watching her on the screen. you can that is the flag being can see that is the flag being raised. do support that raised. do you support that activity or not? and tell me why. we'll come back why. either way, we'll come back to in two.

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry, and i'm keeping you company at home till 7:00 tonight. we were just talking before the break about whether or not or. how should i say you could even get a ceasefire in gaza. and whether or not the uk was right to vote along with that, un security council resolution, you can keep your thoughts coming in. but i also just want to bring the situation back to this country, because you seen luton, you might have seen in luton, actually town hall there actually in the town hall there actually in the town hall there a flag was raised, the palestinian flag was raised, to be precise. i'm just showing it to you , on the screen as we to you, on the screen as we speak alongside me. i've still got the former brexit party mep nunziata rees—mogg and the former adviser to jeremy corbyn, james schneider, to discuss. annunciato. i can tell you now, this has really divided opinion andifs this has really divided opinion and it's created quite strong emotion among people that are seeing that footage. where are you on that? >> i don't think we should have any foreign flags on public

buildings that whether it was palestine or anywhere else, i think it's not the job of town halls to put up foreign nations flags under any circumstances. >> i do want to just be clear. so just in case you're not aware of the context of this, long story short, there was an event, a fundraising event that took place, within that to place, within that building to raise for money people that are affected in gaza. the raising of that flag was essentially seen as a 24 hour thing, to express solidarity with those people. so that was the context, so you say that was the context, so you say that even in that situation, just 24 hour thing. >> absolutely. i think it it remains turns the flag of a foreign nation being put on a pubuc foreign nation being put on a public building in the uk. and it's one thing if you are greeting a specific dignitary and you put all the flags down the mail for them to go to buckingham palace, but on public buildings we should refrain. >> and do you extend that to

things like then? because the ukrainian flag was popping up everywhere and still is in a lot of places, i think it is better to just be completely equal across the board and not put up foreign flags. >> james, i completely respect that position because i do think in general terms, it is odd to have the flags of, foreign countries on public, but not just town halls. i mean, on, on, government ministries projected onto parliament and so on and so forth. i think in general terms, it's odd. i think given that it is allowed and that this is for 24 hours, it's a perfectly reasonable thing in the context of the fact that it's allowed. and i think if you take annunciators line, then that's completely that's that's completely that's that's completely fine and correct , completely fine and correct, i.e. you say the israeli flag shouldn't be flown, the ukrainian flag shouldn't be flown, the anything else flag shouldn't be flown. if you shouldn't be flown. but if you have selective outrage over the palestinian being flown for palestinian flag being flown for 24 hours, during a fundraiser for a charity for humanitarian aid, but you don't mind the

israeli flag outside the health ministry as it was after the 7th of october, or the ukrainian flag, then you're saying more about your own position rather than what you actually. >> and i think that is absolutely why i wouldn't let any go up at all, because because you're picking sides, you're making them political when they're actually there to just serve the british public, whatever their views. >> well, you're jewish, and i wonder if there are any jewish people living in luton, how that would make those people feel, because i imagine that for some jewish people that could potentially be seen as quite intimidatory. >> it's not intimidatory. the flag of palestine. >> well, it's not intimidatory to you. but for other people it might be okay. >> but firstly, you don't have a right to be incorrectly offended . you know, you can't say, well, i you know, i don't like flowers and you've got a flower pot over there. therefore you've, you know, you've offended me. and just because you've known that

sometimes don't like flower sometimes i don't like flower pots, know, by having one, pots, you know, by having one, you've offended me. the flag. >> on. that's a bit >> come on. that's a bit disingenuous, isn't the palestinian flower pot the palestinian, palestinian palestinian, the palestinian flag is. >> it poses no threat whatsoever to jewish people as jewish people . if you are an israeli people. if you are an israeli supremacist who wishes to see the ethnic who's goal is annexation, whose method is ethnic cleansing, and his excuse is self—determination, is self—defence . yes. then okay, self—defence. yes. then okay, fine. you won't like it, but we don't have to kowtow to supremacism. it's a flag that represents a people. that's fine. >> yeah , but the flip side of >> yeah, but the flip side of that will be that some people will see this as a islamist supremacy. >> if you like sitting there, then they are. >> we've we've now managed to get this flag. >> then they are ignorant, then they are ignorant. the, the, the flag palestine is not a flag of palestine is not a supremacist flag. it isn't saying that only palestinian

people can exist in the world. it's not saying that everybody has to be muslim. i mean palestine, palestine is a multi confessional, people anyway, i mean, there are there are christian palestinians, there were jewish palestinians. i mean, there are there are those of all faiths and none. well you tell me what you think to it at home. >> you can have the final say on that. i know that there will be very strong opinions. what i would personally like to see is packitin would personally like to see is pack it in with all any other country's flag flying. and actually, i'd like to see more of our flags flying on public buildings. all the time. quite frankly, i think we should actually a little bit more actually have a little bit more pride in our own nation's flag. but there you go. you will have strong opinions. i'm i am strong opinions. i'm not. i am absolutely of that. absolutely sure of that. vaiews@gbnews.com is how you reach vaiews@gbnews.com is how you reacuk's housing is apparently the uk's housing is apparently the worst value for money of any advanced economy. this is looking at things like, the size of the property. so square footage, the ages of the property , what you're getting

property, what you're getting for your bang for your buck. really? where are you on why you think this is the case? >> well, i think that these, findings are potentially taken slightly that on slightly out of context that on the expense side, they estimated because as the uk has so many more home owners than the countries it was being compared to, they couldn't compare costs. yeah but our housing stock is clearly limited and that has been inflated in cost because we haven't allowed more houses to be built and we have got to government after government has said we will build 100,000 houses a year, 300,000 houses a yean houses a year, 300,000 houses a year, and it never happens whilst our population does nothing but grow . nothing but grow. >> yeah, but why is it not happening? >> because we need a massive reform of planning laws that the planning system in this country is so overregulated. it is so over complicated, and we should be encouraging people to be able

to build small developments, not just the clever big landowners who want to build 200 homes, 5000 homes and can jump through all the hoops that are put in the way of building houses, that inflate the cost of building those houses . and so, along with those houses. and so, along with restricting supply, inflate further the cost to everyone of living in them. >> james. >> james. >> so i agree with some of that. and we do need more houses to be built. and there are reforms to planning that could that could help do that. but if anybody says most of the debate on says and most of the debate on this issue seems only focus this issue seems to only focus on number of houses that can on the number of houses that can be built as if the number of homes per capita had been falling massively in this country, which actually it hasn't. and if you look at, comparable countries , we are at comparable countries, we are at the lower end of the range, but we're not, you know, we our per capha we're not, you know, we our per capita ones is a bit lower than the netherlands, for example,

which is a pretty densely populated, you know, small country near us, similar levels of wealth and so on. so there are other issues for why we have such extremely expensive housing and it is extremely expensive. the average rent is something like £1,300 a month. tenants in the last year that there are records for 2022 paid £89 billion in rent to landlords. this is, you know, that's money that people aren't saving for their deposit to buy their own home and so on and so forth. so there are a number of big policy interventions that are required. the first is to have many more social housing, rent at social rent, keeping that down. the second is there needs to be private sector rent controls rent. it's not possible to carry on rising at the rate the third is. there need to be tax strong tax disincentives towards holding property only for investment and it not being used for homes, which is one of the

things that you see. and one of the ways in which you could fund these policies wouldn't involve raising taxes or anything like that at all. there's over £4 billion which are in tenants deposits, private sector tenants, their deposits , which tenants, their deposits, which are registered with the tenancy deposit scheme. you could take that money and use that to capitalise a housing policy bank, which could then lend to councils to build to developers , councils to build to developers, to build homes which could be used for , for if you wanted, for used for, for if you wanted, for mortgages, if mortgage rates were going up or to subsidise things and you could use that bank to capitalise a housing policy to bank deliver the kinds of quantity of house building that we need in the types of tenure that we need. >> so you're going to take you're going to take the tenants deposits, and you're going to be lending those on a much longer time basis, because a lot of tenants are quite time. tenants is are quite short time. >> so take tenancies, so you

>> so you take tenancies, so you take the tenants, deposits take the tenants, the deposits as a whole. yeah. which is over 4 billion. yeah and say when i move out my flat i'll get my move out of my flat i'll get my deposit back. but someone else will my flat will move into my flat and they'll put the deposit they'll put the, put the deposit in. it's a stable, it's a in. so it's a stable, it's a stable amount which you then, which you then use as your, as your capitalisation. >> some people lend out, some people will be saying it sounds a bit like a glorified ponzi scheme that does. no, no, that's not it's not a ponzi scheme in the slightest. >> what doing not risk free. >> but if we had rent controls, no would rent out houses no one would rent out houses because still to cover because they still have to cover the repairs, the mortgages, all the repairs, the mortgages, all the other costs associated with renting out of property, buying it in first place. and there it in the first place. and there would no landlords because would be no landlords because they wouldn't be able to cover their costs. and that would make it harder for all the tenants, not easier by any stretch of the imagination. the uk does have one of the smallest per capita housing stocks. as you mentioned that if you look at comparable countries in europe , second

countries in europe, second homes account for 22% in spain, 17% in finland, 9% in france, we've only got 4. and yet there is so much discussion on penalising second home owners because they're using up an extra house. i don't have two houses. if in case declare no interest in this one at all, but we actually have a very small number of them compared to the other developed countries, and we do just need to build more. >> there's a couple of different factors that we're not discussing , greed. you know, discussing, greed. you know, when you look at properties that are up for sale at the moment and you actually look at the asking price of the current property, and then you look at the pnce property, and then you look at the price and the gulf the purchase price and the gulf between the and i can't between the two. and i can't help wonder is driving help but wonder what is driving this other than greed this sale price other than greed of an estate agent trying to maximise their commission and of course, understandable, some might a profit motivation of might say a profit motivation of the the selling , the person doing the selling, also as well, something i worry about these, hmos . there's about is these, hmos. there's companies serco now popping

about is these, hmos. there's conoffering serco now popping about is these, hmos. there's conoffering very erco now popping about is these, hmos. there's conoffering very lucrative popping up, offering very lucrative tenancies to tenants like asylum seekers, where you're taking properties now, you're splitting them into multiple dwellings. i think that's personally is a recipe for disaster for a number of reasons. what do you think to the housing situation? gb views at gb news. com is how you get hold of me tonight. your thoughts very much. welcome after the break, i want to talk to you. do you think digitisation of pretty much everything now is excluding people uk say it's, people age uk say it's, absolutely. excluding the elderly . but what about those elderly. but what about those that are not tech savvy as well? do you all feel alienated or not? and also criminals, do you think they should have to don hi—viz jackets, get out into their communities and fix what they did wrong? or is that a little bit too humiliating? you tell me

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry, and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, my panel remain. i've got the former brexit party mep annunziata rees—mogg and the former advisor to jeremy corbyn, james schneider. welcome back everybody, audrey was just saying, we've just been talking about whether or not the palestinian flag should be flying on top of luton town hall, so many of you say no. and the reason that you're saying no is you think that actually no foreign country's flag should be flying on a public building. audrey says michel, she says she can't even fly, a flag in her own garden without planning permission. i have to say, i didn't actually realise that was the case. and you've just been updating me and nunziatella, so i appreciate that. i didn't realise that if you wanted to stick a flag up your flagpole and stuff, you had to get planning permission to do that. how you learn something how bizarre. you learn something new that new every day. but that sentiment really coming sentiment is really coming through. by through. let me ask you this, by the you have that the way. did you have that sentiment when it was the ukrainian flags were

ukrainian flags that were getting different getting flown on different buildings? views at buildings? tell me gb views at gb news. com i want to talk to you now, though, about whether or not people are being alienated from of different alienated from lots of different aspects society , really aspects of society, really because of digitisation age uk, they the alarm about they raising the alarm about elderly people, saying it's almost impossible now for them to do it. a lot of elderly people have been watching this, shouting how dare you? because i'm a whiz with technology, so i'm a whiz with technology, so i'm not sure it's always an age thing as opposed to a technical competency perhaps competency thing. perhaps i agree with that. >> think are young >> i think there are young people whatever reason, people who, for whatever reason, don't understand or don't like using tech, and i'm slightly suspicious age. uk's estimate suspicious of age. uk's estimate that around 1 in 5 over 65 do not use the internet. that does seem exceedingly high. well, unless i know incredibly technologically advanced over 65 year olds, all of whom seem to contact each other on whatsapp and email all the time, and but i think that is, however, a

really serious issue about leaving people behind and preventing them from accessing services that they need , and services that they need, and whether it is only being able to order prescriptions online, or whether it is only being able to pay whether it is only being able to pay for parking with a smartphone, you are constantly limiting who can get hold of those services. i think we've got to be realistic that we are heading to a fully digitalised world, but that there must be in the interim , support for people the interim, support for people who could otherwise completely drop off the system. is that fair? >> james? i think it's fair. >> james? i think it's fair. >> and i would take it a little bit further because i think it's not just in public services, but also in, in commercial services. the use of, digitisation and automation can either be something which is win win win for everyone. it makes the service cheaper to run. it makes the people who are running the service, it makes their life eafien service, it makes their life easier. and the people who use the service, it makes their life

eafien the service, it makes their life easier. but that is not always the case. and you know, quite often it's the case as it makes the service user basically do some work that that some of the work that that service provider used to do or that company used to do. you know, you have chatting with the chat bot about your problem, not being speak to a person , being able to speak to a person, all these, all of these all of these, all of these various things. i think various things. so i think especially when it's public services, companies, services, of course, companies, if away with if they can get away with externalising costs onto their consumers, they will will consumers, they will they will do so . but public services do so. but public services shouldn't be doing that, especially when the way in which it happens is going to happen in a way with distributional a way with a distributional impact. are going impact. some people are going to be very other be impacted very badly. other people less so. so i think for all of these processes , it's not all of these processes, it's not just having checks to not leave people behind, but to see is this actually something which makes the service better for users, or is it essentially a cost cutting exercise which puts i'm wholeheartedly in favour of government departments and local councils cutting costs that this seems very sensible, but not if

it's at the cost of the taxpayers , getting the getting taxpayers, getting the getting to the services they require. >> what was there about cutting costs? but so many public sector projects it's that are all about digitising and it they go completely wrong. and then we end up having to pick up the tab as the tax payers that are actually save us that much money in some cases, i can tell you, many people are getting in touch. about the housing thing. peter has said, michel, it's simple. we don't need more houses. we need basically houses. we need to basically stop the population growth rising as quickly as it is. i completely agree with you on that one, barbara . or you're that one, barbara. or you're going to upset a few people. barbara. she says it's simple, michel. the problem is when it comes to housing is that young people keep wasting their money on nightlife, booze , fashion, on nightlife, booze, fashion, holidays and anything else other than money for a deposit. barbara, you're a brave woman. i can hear the young shouting back at you. i can tell you that for free, colin, says michel.

simple, we can charge ten times the amount of council tax on all empty properties that he says will focus the miners. they're already trying, aren't they? the flirting. a few different ideas about potentially increasing council tax on empty properties in a few different places. but doesn't that actually kind of undermine the whole council tax system in some way? isn't it a little bit unfair? i don't know if you want to leave your property empty. isn't up to property empty. isn't that up to you, in touch and tell me you, get in touch and tell me your thoughts again. this sentiment through sentiment is coming through thick that you do not thick and fast, that you do not think that foreign should think that foreign flags should be flying across any public building. ask you again , building. i'll ask you again, did you think that when it was the ukrainian flag that was popping up the ukrainian flag that was popping up all over the place or not after the break? my favourite topic. i've been desperate to talk to you about this for a few days now, when a criminal commits a crime and they to go into the to they have to go into the to community serve their sentence, should given high community serve their sentence, shojackets given high community serve their sentence, shojackets made iven high community serve their sentence, shojackets made to n high community serve their sentence, shojackets made to stand high community serve their sentence, shojackets made to stand out gh community serve their sentence, shojackets made to stand out an vis jackets made to stand out an element humiliation, if you element of humiliation, if you will, they clean up their

will, while they clean up their communities, yes. what communities, i say yes. what says

? hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you. it's 7:00 tonight. a row has broken out . everybody. row has broken out. everybody. i've got the former brexit party mep nancy the tories mogg alongside me. the former advisor to jeremy corbyn, jim schneider. but ian, one of my viewers. you confused everyone, ian, because before break we were saying, before the break we were saying, well, me. annunciato i was well, not me. annunciato i was saying that you need planning permission to get a flagpole in ian's having it. he says ian's having none of it. he says he works in local planning and actually, need, actually, you don't need, planning permission. and you're not having any of that. i think the jury is still out. we're now talking about metres. and how high is too high for a flagpole. i'm going to let you guys fight that out in your own time, lots of people responding as well to all viewers. barbara, all of my viewers. barbara, who's barbara basically said that the young people's

that it's the young people's fault the get on the housing fault the cat get on the housing ladden fault the cat get on the housing ladder. carol, you're not having any of what saying, any of what barbara's saying, because saying, barbara, because carol's saying, barbara, we the same when we was we all did the same when we was young. we our lives. she young. we enjoyed our lives. she says, weren't the says, but the houses weren't the price are now. you price that they are now. you didn't the deposit . that is didn't need the deposit. that is equivalent now, and she says, look the house market, look look at the house market, look at wages. different at the wages. it's a different league. she says , oh, you're league. she says, oh, you're a feisty bunch tonight i like it. let's talk, shall we? criminals because offenders now potentially have don potentially will have to don these jackets to get out these hives jackets to get out into community and fix into the community and fix things like graffiti and all the rest of it. of course, there was a trial about this that went well, and now they're going to roll out. of course, if you roll it out. of course, if you ask me, it's all about freeing up space. i think this is up prison space. i think this is a wonderful idea, this whole nofion a wonderful idea, this whole notion you have this high notion that you have this high vis jacket on, you'll be vis a jacket on, you'll be identified a criminal. identified as a criminal. brilliant you like it? brilliant do you like it? >> i think absolutely >> i think it's absolutely brilliant idea. and fully support it. and not not particularly because it embarrasses people or shames them, but because if you have damaged your community by doing

whatever crime it might be that has led you to this point, then you should be made to pay back in some way and demonstrate that you can support your community and be part of it and part of making it better. and i think this is a wonderful scheme to do that. >> james, i would like to see the evidence that it reduces reoffending and that it reduces antisocial behaviour at all, rather than, make whoever is the justice secretary. this week seem tough by putting in words like chain gangs. i don't think that sounds particularly like it's been. >> i don't think that was his word, because it's not. it's not attributed with a direct quote. i don't know who has said the first sentence. >> it's chain gangs in inverted inverted commas, which therefore must come from the government's briefing, given they've handed the story to the to the telegraph. so i don't think chain gangs are a good idea. the in general terms , people, paying in general terms, people, paying

back to their community, cleaning things, etc. that's all that's all very well and good. i agree with that. i would like to see the evidence that this, that this reduces reoffending and it doesn't backfire at all. if you remember when new labour went very big on on asbos and said, you know, in holidays and that, i think david cameron was the one who said he wanted to hug a hoodie. he didn't actually say society. he didn't actually say he. anyway, we're going into the history that probably all history that we probably all want to forget, but with the asbos anyway, i think it was a lot of it was an attempt to get. >> i think it's highly unlikely to increase reoffending rates, but would help people but i think it would help people that often, out of control lives is a reason people end up in, particularly pettier crimes. and i'm assuming this is not designed for, mass murderers , designed for, mass murderers, but for those who've shoplifted

or the lower end of the crime spectrum. and in fact, having a kind of very regular routine, having something you have to do every day is proven to really help that. and i think it might well help reduce reoffending, not because they are embarrassed or ashamed to be out in public being, quote, humiliated and but because they discover that there can be a pattern to life that you can live by that might very well be right. >> and if the story were presented in that way , i would presented in that way, i would be far more likely to think that someone has looked at some evidence and gone made the sort of argument that you've made. but when it's done with, you know, we're going to humiliate them we're putting them them because we're putting them in in high viz, it sounds like it's we've got a day it's a oh, look, we've got a day in the grid for justice, what should we do? oh, i think i can get a page. >> i am not going to defend the government's pr machine , but, government's pr machine, but, i mean, i, i agree that things that help people, get back into

structured life support for community, that give people skills and, you know, some, you know, some hope, some things to, to look forward to are very good.i to look forward to are very good. i don't get the feeling that that's where this is, where this is coming from. it could be, you know, we don't know what's the underlying policy behind that sits behind the, you know, the newsy top line with chain gangs. we don't know if that's actually what the minister said or what a press officer thought would get a good headune officer thought would get a good headline in the telegraph. we you we don't know. you know, we don't know. >> don't like the notion of >> i don't like the notion of chain gangs, but i absolutely and i don't even care about the reoffending to, you reoffending rate. so to, you know, why we should be know, is that why we should be deciding on policy or not? deciding on a policy or not? i actually think that if these criminals understand that actually, be shamed actually, you will be shamed if you're a criminal, you will be laughed at, you will be mocked. then maybe, just maybe , it might then maybe, just maybe, it might even stop. just even it just even stop. just even if it just stops to do with one of them. that's just one of them re—offend. >> that's to do with reoffending

and offending the first and offending in the first place. but again, let's, you know, see the evidence, know, let's see the evidence, the evidence that asbos stopped that of that kind of the kind of behaviour that you got an asbo for not well founded. for was not well founded. i mean, there's now there was a decade academic research. decade of academic research. >> yeah, i do actually >> well, yeah, i do actually remember young some remember some young people, some young actually thought young kids that actually thought that asbo was badge of that an asbo was a badge of honoun that an asbo was a badge of honour. they loved honour. they absolutely loved it. i remember a story about it. i can remember a story about some twins, actually, set of some twins, actually, a set of twins, i remember that. twins, i'm sure i remember that. in i think one in fact, actually, i think one of viewers got in touch with of the viewers got in touch with me related those twins. i'll me related to those twins. i'll have dig deep into my memory have to dig deep into my memory to remember that story. you to remember that story. but you know what? a little bit tougher on wouldn't go amiss, on criminals wouldn't go amiss, if do you make if you ask me. what do you make to all when, says michel, we to it all when, says michel, we have these and have hives with these people and we've it for ages. we've been doing it for ages. it's south. they just need it's the south. they just need to catch up this. it's not to catch up on this. it's not a new policy, he says. well, there you go, look, thank you very much, guys, company much, guys, for your company tonight. thank you. at home, do not anywhere because not go anywhere because nigel farage but that's it farage is up next. but that's it from me tonight. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb

news. >> hi there. time to look at the met office forecast for gb news rain and snow across northern parts of the uk during the next 24 hours. showers moving in elsewhere. although interspersed by at least some brighter interludes . low pressure still interludes. low pressure still well and truly in charge. that low mainly sitting towards the southwest of the uk and it is sending a band of rain north dunng sending a band of rain north during the evening into northern ireland, where some wet weather could cause issues. rain warning in force well central and in force as well as central and northern england, parts of wales and eventually that rain and then eventually that rain moves into scotland, where it mixes cold air to give some mixes with cold air to give some snow above 2300m. the far north stays dry but chilly, and further south some clear spells , further south some clear spells, although the next area of rain moves in by dawn to affect southwest england, wales, northern ireland as well. heavy downpours , gusty winds and then downpours, gusty winds and then that rain well, it tends to turn to showers as it moves into central uk by the afternoon.

further showers arrive later from the southwest with gusty winds, hail and thunder. a lively afternoon , although with lively afternoon, although with some pretty clouds in the sky. now in the far north. we're going to see wet and windy weather remain until thursday morning. and then thursday starts bright across starts off bright across scotland and northern ireland. elsewhere for england and wales, a start further a blustery start with further heavy come, followed by heavy rain to come, followed by showers those showers showers and those showers developing fairly widely as we go easter weekend. go into the easter weekend. i suspect good friday, saturday and easter day mostly we're going to see sunny spells and showers before more prolonged rain on monday. >> it looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news

news. >> good evening. well, the uk votes for a ceasefire in gaza at the un security council. and two jewish people from israel are given a very, very hard time by border force. have we effectively betrayed israel? small boat crossings. james cleverly boasting at the start of the year that the numbers were considerably down and his aim was to get it to zero? well, so far this year the numbers are up so far this year the numbers are ”p by so far this year the numbers are up by 25. come in. james cleverly . we'd love a comment cleverly. we'd love a comment from you and a new poll out showing 60% of people think we should apologise for slavery , should apologise for slavery, but i thought we'd already done that anyway before all of that, let's get the news with polly middlehurst. >> nigel. thank you. the top story this hour. president biden has said this afternoon the search and rescue operation is now the top priority for the city. after a ship crashed into baltimore's main bridge with all traffic into the busy