nomination for camra pub of its nomination for camra pub of the year award revoked. but why.7 because it had a swastika on display. but it was brought back from the world war two by a british soldier who wanted it in the pub. as a reminder of the victory over the nazis. is context. everything or are some symbols just beyond the pale and plus talking military stuff, plus, talking of military stuff, the got rid of a 100 the army has got rid of a 100 year ban on beards. is this year old ban on beards. is this the the army's the answer? the army's recruitment crisis. more beards? well, we have a proud owner of a beard on the panel. not me, by the way, on the panel this evening. and he has some interesting views on that subject. and it of course, subject. and it is, of course, good a time for most to good friday, a time for most to have a day off, sit back and enjoy a nice hot cross bun. but what flavour? chocolate salted caramel, blueberry or even bacon? can i just have a normal one please? hello, people are kicking off left, right and centre about this. are we desecrating an easter tradition or just bit of hot cross or is it just a bit of hot cross bun ? that's all to come in the

bun? that's all to come in the next hour. but first, let's get the news headlines with sam francis. >> dawn, thank you very much. and good evening from the newsroom. just gone 6:00. and the latest developments in our top story of the day, the new interim leader of the democratic unionist party has said that today's shock resignation of sir jeffrey donaldson has been incredibly challenging . the incredibly challenging. the departure of the dup's former leader and longest serving mp in northern ireland came after he was charged with serious historic sex offences. a 57 year old woman has also been charged with aiding and abetting additional offences in relation to that same police investigation. gavin robinson says it's been a devastating revelation. >> it's caused tremendous shock, not just for myself personally or my colleagues within the dup, but for the community right

across northern ireland. it came as a great shock, but we are a party and individuals that believe in justice. we have faith in our criminal justice system , and so in the coming system, and so in the coming days and months, i think it is important that none of us say anything or act in any way that would seek to prejudice what is now an ongoing criminal investigation . investigation. >> as dawn mentioned at the top of the hour, one of the conservative party's major donors has received a knighthood as part of a controversial honours list rishi sunak. honours list from rishi sunak. mohamed gave £5 million mohamed mansour gave £5 million to tories last year and he's to the tories last year and he's a senior treasurer for the party. he was knighted for what's described as services to business, to charity and politics. other recipients included mp philip davies, who is also a former presenter on this network. the timing of the list is unusual, though, coming while parliament is in recess and on the eve of the easter bank holiday weekend , police are

bank holiday weekend, police are appealing for help in their search for a man suspected of raping two women in london. the attacks took place four years apart, first in westminster in 2018, followed by another incident in shoreditch in 2022. those offences were being investigated as separate crimes, but forensic work has helped to draw a link between the two. detectives say that it's highly likely the suspect has also committed other attacks. the metropolitan force has released this e—fit image you can see there if you're watching on television and they're asking anyone who thinks they may have information to contact police or call crime stoppers . and in call crime stoppers. and in other news, police have issued an urgent appeal to help them locate a disabled boy's specially modified van that was stolen from a family in east london. the cariaso family's 13 london. the cariasofamily's13 year london. the cariaso family's 13 year old son, elijah, has a rare muscular condition and survives with the help of medical equipment. if you're watching on

television, you can see here this cctv footage released by police of that grey ford ford transit custom van. as it was being stolen in hackney in the caphal being stolen in hackney in the capital. it's used by the family to transport vital medical equipment for their son. elijah's mother, anisa told gb news earlier that she's hoping it will be returned before her son's birthday, which she said could be their last holiday together . together. >> it's not the van that you took, but it's our freedom as a family, his freedom as to whatever life he's got. he's got a limited time here and we just hope that you pull something in your heart to look at this as not a material thing, but look at this as what you could give to elijah into whatever life, whatever we could squeeze in to whatever we could squeeze in to whatever limited time we've got . whatever limited time we've got. >> campaigners have criticised a series of promised reforms for renters, describing them as a charter for landlord as the

practice of forcing tenants out of their home for no stated reason was to be abolished in what the government had described as a once in a generation overhaul of housing laws. but a leaked letter from communities ministerjacob laws. but a leaked letter from communities minister jacob young has suggested the bill may now include several concessions on behalf of landlords. the renters reform coalition says that weakening the bill breaks the government's promise, leaving most renters still at risk of no fault evictions . and to the us fault evictions. and to the us finally, where the wall street journal has published an edition of its paper with a blank front page marking one year since their reporter, evan gershkovich, was jailed in russia. the 32 year old was detained last year on charges of spying , though no evidence has spying, though no evidence has ever been presented for those charges . and despite president charges. and despite president putin's hints of a potential exchange, no deal has so far been reached here in the uk. meanwhile the archbishop of canterbury has called on people across globe to pray this across the globe to pray this easter weekend for the jailed

journalist . those are the latest journalist. those are the latest headlines. more in the next houn headlines. more in the next hour. in the meantime, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the code on your screen, or go to gb news. com slash alerts. now though, it's back to dawn. >> thank you very much, sam. welcome to dewbs& co with me, dawn neesom. joining me until seven, i've got a brilliant panel for you tonight, a journalist and author, benedict spence. journalist and author, benedict spence . and trade unionist and spence. and trade unionist and writer paul embry. and of course, the show isn't about them or me. it's about you. so you can get in touch with about what we're talking about, what you about, you want to talk about, anything. friday. do anything. it's good friday. do what all of that is what you want. all of that is very easy. gb views at gb news. com or on twitter stroke x at gb news. now rishi sunak has been criticised again, i know, for announcing a surprise round of honours which included four tory mps and a major donor to the

conservative party. mohamed mansour gave 5 million to the tories in 2023 and is a senior treasurer at the party. labour's chair, anneliese dodds, reacted to the news on gb news breakfast this morning by saying this seems to be an almost automatic pass now under the conservatives and particularly the individual. >> mr mansour, who was last year last january the biggest ever donor to the conservatives, £5 million at that stage, the biggest individual donation that had been given then seeming to have that automatic pass through to receiving, an honour under rishi sunak. i think if anything, it demonstrates yet again his weakness that he's focused on internal party issues all of the time, rather than on the needs of our country . okay. the needs of our country. okay. now, one of the four mps receive an honour. sir philip davies , an honour. sir philip davies, who represents shipley, gave his reaction to britain's newsroom on gb news this morning. i asked

him what he thinks is done to deserve the honour. >> a bit cheeky, it's not for me, it's not for me to decide that. that's for the people and, people will have their own opinion about whether any honour is or not. and you only is merited or not. and you only have to look at social media and you'll see that some people think best decision you'll see that some people thinirishi best decision you'll see that some people thinirishi beshas cision you'll see that some people thinirishi beshas ever1 you'll see that some people thinirishi beshas ever made, that rishi sunak has ever made, and people think it's an and some people think it's an absolute disgrace. twas ever absolute disgrace. and twas ever thus but it's not for thus i suppose. but it's not for me say whether i deserve it me to say whether i deserve it or not, or what i've done. it's for, say, i didn't award for, like i say, i didn't award it to myself. >> spoken like true politician >> spoken like a true politician . didn't actually answer why he thinks he got a gong. i mean, you must know, surely. but this bnngs you must know, surely. but this brings me to ask. do we need to reform the honours system? i mean, is it really, you know, giving gongs for your mates, basically, and, you know, who do we deserves these honours? we think deserves these honours? is makes is it people that just makes a rishi let . me ask my panel rishi sunak let. me ask my panel about this one. now, basically, at this time of year, paul, most of us are giving easter eggs to

our mates. rishi sunak has to go one and give gongs one better and give people gongs as well. >> the whole system needs to be democratised or it needs to be abolished because this makes people very cynical about the whole honours system. how can it be right someone gets a be right that someone gets a knighthood for having donated £5 million to the tory party, and within year he he gets within a year he he gets a knighthood? the idea that this has been given to him for his, you know, public service for as they claim services to charity and it is not in any way linked to the fact that he's given mega millions to the conservative party the biggest donation the tory party has received, by the way, something 23 years way, for something like 23 years is nonsense and i think is arrant nonsense and i think it's an insult to people's intelligence. there should be something like a time bar, i think, where major donors have given large amounts of money, whatever the limit should be, large amounts of money to a party, that they should be barred from, you know, getting a knighthood, being elevated to the lords for a certain amount of time, whether it's five

years, eight years, ten years or whatever. because the reason that they give them to them is because they're more because they're inviting more donations. reason that rishi donations. the reason that rishi sunak giving him, know , sunak is giving him, you know, the knighthood is because he wants to send the message to people. look if you donate millions to the tory party, then this is what you get in return. if you're a rich businessman and you're after being elevated to the lords, or you're after a knighthood, if you're a woman, you want to become a dame. give us a few million quid. and this is what happens. and the problem is, the whole thing is, it makes the whole thing seem corrupt. and for seem completely corrupt. and for ordinary out there, many ordinary people out there, many of give of whom i would give a knighthood to far before i would give it to this person, i have to say, they think it's just the old network. they think old boys network. they think it's, scratch my it's, you know, you scratch my back, scratch your back jobs back, i scratch your back jobs for kind of for the boys, that kind of thing. it makes people rightly very cynical. >> well, isn't this the problem, then? in then? are there are anyone in then? are there are anyone in the rishi sunak the tory party rishi sunak listening to what people are thinking is the thinking is saying, this is the worst in the world, worst move in the world, especially saying, you know, we had the dodgy donor story the

other we? frank other week, didn't we? frank hester, actually was the hester, who actually was the biggest giving million. biggest donor giving 10 million. is get a gong next is he going to get a gong next yeah >> do think this is going to >> do you think this is going to massively affect polling massively affect their polling given they're already given how badly they're already doing? think they care? i doing? do you think they care? i think this is the exact right moment. if you're going to reward mates you're reward your mates because you're not get back into not going to get back into office a good few years. office for a good few years. >> this the thing, isn't it? >> this is the thing, isn't it? this is the thing, is it? this is the other thing, is it? the timing just for easter? i mean, is signalling that they mean, is it signalling that they know they're a busted flat? i think this a very good think that this is a very good way drumming up support way of drumming up support in the short time, but also in the long given that the long term, given that the opportunities actually opportunities for actually handing going handing out gongs are going to be thin ground, be very, thin on the ground, to be very, thin on the ground, to be to people, be able to say to people, well, look, know, are look, you know, there are opportunities get opportunities for you to get things perhaps in the future it might take ten years until you get your hands on them. >> i think that this >> but still, i think that this is mechanism, therefore, for, >> but still, i think that this is youzchanism, therefore, for, >> but still, i think that this is you say,1ism, therefore, for, >> but still, i think that this is you say, potentiallyore, for, >> but still, i think that this is you say, potentially for for, as you say, potentially for drumming support for drumming up support or for incentivising also drumming up support or for incent got ng also drumming up support or for incent got ng be also drumming up support or for incent got ng be it also we've got to be clear, it is a way of incentivising of way of incentivising people, of getting in politics in way of incentivising people, of grwayg in politics in way of incentivising people, of grwayg might n politics in way of incentivising people, of grwayg might otherwisein way of incentivising people, of grwayg might otherwise not be a way who might otherwise not be interested. actually, we're very good businessmen interested. actually, we're very goorwomen businessmen interested. actually, we're very goorwomen this;inessmen interested. actually, we're very goorwomen this country,n and women from this country, partly because pay in partly because the pay in politics you need

politics are so poor. you need other things to incentivise people i'm people to get into it. i'm afraid those things afraid one of those things are things knighthoods. things like knighthoods. now, i would say that most people actually it's actually do accept that it's a bit dodgy, bit rotten, bit dodgy, it's a bit rotten, but actually nowadays most people if people do not really care. if somebody whozit of somebody is lord whozit of watsonville, don't. it's watsonville, they don't. it's you longer a title you know, it no longer a title is thing is no longer the sort of thing that great weight that carries any great weight because landowners. that carries any great weight becaldon't, landowners. that carries any great weight becaldon't, know,ndowners. that carries any great weight becaldon't, know, it owners. that carries any great weight becaldon't, know, it doesn't they don't, you know, it doesn't carry great power. carry sort of any great power. it something it is literally something you give who has given give to somebody who has given a political party a of money, political party a lot of money, which would go, which most people would go, okay, like being okay, i'd quite like being being a i actually a knight, but i don't actually think think does is it think i think what it does is it adds the whole perception cronyism. >> don't think people are cronyism. >don't don't think people are cronyism. >don't think1't think people are cronyism. >don't think people; people are cronyism. >don't think people are ople are cronyism. >don't think people are ase are i don't think people are as relaxed about it as you say. i'm not necessarily suggesting that when the polling when they go into the polling booth election day, booth on general election day, that going affect that it's going to affect their vote but it vote at the ballot box, but it just the general just gives the general impression know , the impression that, you know, the westminster elite completely westminster elite are completely removed us. they don't removed from us. they don't understand our lives. they don't understand our lives. they don't understand outside the understand people outside the m25. you've got rishi sunak and jeremy hunt who have got wealth beyond what most ordinary people jeremy hunt who have got wealth beyon possiblyfost ordinary people jeremy hunt who have got wealth beyon possibly imagine, ary people jeremy hunt who have got wealth beyon possibly imagine, and)eople could possibly imagine, and they're giving gongs out to their , to, to their mates, who

their, to, to their mates, who are also mega multi—millionaires . and i think ordinary people out there, while it may not be decisive on election day, it does add, i think, to the general sense of alienation and the general contempt people hold. >> the general sense and the political elite. but i just don't think it's that important a thing you okay, let's a thing you know? okay, let's give nurse give let's give a nurse somewhere or somewhere in surrey or wolverhampton . let's give them wolverhampton. let's give them a damehood. that damehood. fantastic. does that actually change their life fundamentally? no. it has absolutely no impact at all. it is a very little other is a very little value other than congratulations than to say congratulations on doing sterling . good job. now than to say congratulations on doiback sterling . good job. now than to say congratulations on doiback torling . good job. now than to say congratulations on doiback to work. good job. now than to say congratulations on doiback to work iniood job. now than to say congratulations on doiback to work iniood system w go back to work in the system that doesn't just that doesn't they could just always pay her what it's about. well but this exactly always pay her what it's about. welpoint. but this exactly always pay her what it's about. welpoint. what this exactly always pay her what it's about. welpoint. what this aexactly the point. what does a knighthood cost? knighthood actually cost? it costs a costs what you pay to a political party what put political party or what you put into political into the political system. actually, if you had a knighthood to charity knighthood out to a charity worker, nurse whoever, what worker, a nurse or whoever, what does actually do to improve does it actually do to improve their lives? nothing. why does it actually do to improve tisay lives? nothing. why does it actually do to improve tisay most’ nothing. why does it actually do to improve tisay most people g. why does it actually do to improve tisay most people will why does it actually do to improve tisay most people will aty i say most people will look at this yeah , it doesn't this and go, yeah, it doesn't really very fair, but ever really seem very fair, but ever thus always a thus was it. it's always been a way rewarding friends of way of rewarding the friends of the be clear, and way of rewarding the friends of thdoesn't be clear, and way of rewarding the friends of th doesn't actually clear, and way of rewarding the friends of th doesn't actually affect and it doesn't actually affect materially people's materially ordinary people's lives. what lives. you're right to say what is more interest to

is perhaps of more interest to people saying, okay, people is saying, okay, great, you're a you're giving this person a knighthood donated knighthood because he donated 5 million. track million. what is your track record in government? what are we getting million? we getting for that 5 million? >> message i think, is >> but the message i think, is a better way. >> the message it sends is that we society not value we as a society do not value productive labour, that actually the person who the nurse or the person who spent 30 years sweeping the streets, or the lollipop lady or the lollipop lady, the people who do do really important socially productive work in their community, their their community, commit to their community, give value to their community, give value to their community day after day, year after year , have got no chance after year, have got no chance for the most part of getting a look but if you're a captain look in. but if you're a captain of industry, work in the of industry, if you work in the city, the head of city, if you're the head of a financial institution or bank, city, if you're the head of a firyou're institution or bank, city, if you're the head of a firyou're a1stitution or bank, city, if you're the head of a firyou're a median or bank, city, if you're the head of a firyou're a media mogul bank, city, if you're the head of a firyou're a media mogul, ank, city, if you're the head of a firyou're a media mogul , then if you're a media mogul, then you've got every chance of getting into the lords . getting into the lords. >> so i don't think that what it doesisit >> so i don't think that what it does is it speaks to it speaks to fundamental of to the fundamental unfairness of our the our of our society and the fact that is a class ridden society. >> i mean, people like to claim it's increasingly a classless society. actually, i think we're seeing more divisions getting w0 i'se. woi'se. >> worse. >> i agree with you. >> i agree with you.

>> i agree with you completely. but the honour system doesn't signify fact this but the honour system doesn't siga ify fact this but the honour system doesn't siga no fact this but the honour system doesn't siga no no, fact this but the honour system doesn't siga no no, the fact this but the honour system doesn't siga no no, the fact that this is a no no, the fact that this is a no no, the fact that this is a no no, the fact that this is a country that is run entirely off of accumulated, unearned wealth is actually the manifestation, is right manifestation, but it is right at bottom . and this is this at the bottom. and this is this is why say actually is why i say what actually matters people is it and matters to people is it so and so getting that says so getting a gong that says you're now, or is it you're a knight now, or is it things houses? is things like building houses? is it building it things like building reservoirs? and that's why i say, it's an irritant. but say, okay, it's an irritant. but what a more about is what i care a lot more about is saying, we get for the saying, what do we get for the political that political donation that puts a party government? am party in government? i am much more record more irritated by the record of the in the conservative party in government to government on their failure to do whether or do things, than on whether or not decide to hand out not they decide to hand out by that well. not they decide to hand out by tha but well. not they decide to hand out by tha but i'ml. not they decide to hand out by tha but i'm also irritated by >> but i'm also irritated by this. it's like they're not concerned. waste concerned. it's just a waste of time. the anymore? time. what is the point anymore? >> it does is it >> i think what it does is it signals sunak knows signals that rishi sunak knows he's win he's probably not going to win the next election, and benedict's probably right. get all handed out now, all the gongs handed out now, you know, let's, let's, let's do everything for mates everything now for my mates because let's be blunt, we're not going around, you not going to be around, you know, foreseeable future , know, in the foreseeable future, politically to politically expedient thing to do at this moment. >> exactly. >> well, exactly. >> well, exactly. >> that's why that's why >> and that's why that's why labour going. well, labour are going. yeah. well, you busted flush, you know, you're a busted flush,

mate, what that mate, but that's what that bnngs mate, but that's what that brings to anneliese brings me back to anneliese dodds, a speaking to dodds, who was a speaking to the breakfast morning, breakfast show this morning, who was but stopped was very critical, but stopped saying labour would scrap saying that labour would scrap the . and the the honours system. and the hypocrisy, though, was a bit much. remember cash for much. anyone remember cash for honours? yes, yes, i remember it because my head teacher at my secondary school was involved in it, desmond smith, who was a very good head teacher , by the very good head teacher, by the way, but he was exposed by the sunday times for being involved. >> he was ambassador for the >> he was an ambassador for the government, exposed government, and he was exposed by times having by the sunday times to having been in it, and he been involved in it, and he ended a prison cell. ended up in a prison cell. i mean, was was freed , but mean, he was he was freed, but he arrested and ended in mean, he was he was freed, but h was that blair >> that was that was blair elevating people to lords, elevating people to the lords, his to to the lords. his mates to the to the lords. >> exactly . that's >> exactly. that's my understanding. point. understanding. that's the point. >> political >> that's how our political system always worked a system has always worked on a bafis system has always worked on a basis of patronage. whether basis of patronage. and whether people that and people like it or not, that and it's interesting, isn't it? it's very interesting, isn't it? anneliese did say, anneliese dodds did not say, yeah, sweep this yeah, we're going to sweep this whole system away. no no no yeah, we're going to sweep this whcno.;ystem away. no no no yeah, we're going to sweep this whcno. because vay. no no no yeah, we're going to sweep this whcno. because because |o no yeah, we're going to sweep this whcno. because because they no

no, no. because because they would it would like to utilise it themselves. because for some reason people some people when you get higher up in the echelons of society, think echelons of society, i think some about these some people do care about these things. men things. the ordinary men and women do not women of the world do not particularly is lord? particularly care who is lord? who is dame, who is this, that or other? nice or the other? it's nice if a sports a charity sports person or a charity worker gets worker or a musician gets something you feel that something because you feel that you've of affinity you've got some sort of affinity with person. but the with that person. but the average, banker average, you know, banker or hedge funder who gets a gong, actually, they don't know who they don't they are. they don't particularly. they they are. they don't particcare.r. they they are. they don't particcare. and they they are. they don't particcare. and that's'hey they are. they don't particcare. and that's the don't care. and that's the thing. how you grease thing. it's how you grease the wheels ladder. doesn't wheels up the ladder. it doesn't necessarily affect people lower down unless the down the ladder unless the greasing of the ladder higher up allows political allows for a better political system is what we ought to system that is what we ought to be what have we be talking about. what have we got millions that mr got for the millions that mr mansoor lord mansoor, mansoor or lord mansoor, as he is actually into is now, he's actually put into the tory party. has the the tory party. what has the country got for that country in general got for that money? it's just a gong, money? if it's just a gong, i would a rather would say that's a rather expensive gong if it's, you know, helped with some sort of other policy that perhaps helps with or with house building or something, you might argue something, you might then argue maybe that's money that's worthwhile, of maybe that's money that's wortrthough, of maybe that's money that's wortrthough, benedict, of maybe that's money that's wortrthough, benedict, is of that, though, benedict, is you're into the area you're then into the whole area of for influence, of cash for influence, aren't you? of cash for influence, aren't youyou're the area of >> you're into the area of saying, you millions saying, i'm giving you millions

of i want of pounds because i want to dictate i want major dictate policy. i want major influence over party policy and by government policy. by extension, government policy. so actually, by doing that, and if the government goes along with that and says, okay, we'll listen to you, we'll listen to you, we'll acquiesce your you, we'll acquiesce to your demands. what does that mean for ordinary got ordinary people who haven't got tuppence their tuppence ha'penny? and their only into the only power is going into the ballot box? >> isn't that the point of a trade just go down trade union? just don't go down that quickly, boys. just >> just quickly, boys. just quickly. one word answer. we're running out of time. if you're offered honour. say, offered a gong, an honour. say, sir sir benedict, would sir paul. sir benedict, would you accept it? >> dukedom or nothing? dukedom >> a dukedom or nothing? dukedom >> a dukedom or nothing? dukedom >> working class boy from dagenham. >> on. what i was being >> come on. what i was being offered it for. if it was because i'd given a few quid, then i'd say no. if it was because of my, you know, public service and whatever, because of my, you know, public servile and whatever, because of my, you know, public servi�*i would and whatever, because of my, you know, public servi�*i would consideratever, because of my, you know, public servi�*i would consider it.ver, then i would consider it. >> thought dame dawn >> and i thought dame dawn sounded nice, don't you sounded quite nice, don't you think, it's not think, dawn. right it's not going to happen, is it, coming up, a pub in cornwall has got itself in hot water over displaying nazi armband , which displaying a nazi armband, which they claim was given as a trophy displaying a nazi armband, which thea claim was given as a trophy displaying a nazi armband, which thea british vas given as a trophy displaying a nazi armband, which thea british soldieren as a trophy displaying a nazi armband, which thea british soldier who a trophy displaying a nazi armband, which thea british soldier who served|y by a british soldier who served in world war ii. are some

symbols , though, simply just symbols, though, simply just beyond the pale. or is context everything we find out after this

break? >> on patrick christys tonight, nine till 11 pm, a tv exclusive with former immigration minister robert jenrick. and he is scathing about rishi sunak. would you try to talk about legal immigration? and it was just batted away. yes. and sexual assaults are taking place in migrant hotels . in migrant hotels. >> i did see some very concerning incidents , for concerning incidents, for example, at the asylum hotels, individuals committing sexual assault also find out why quieres for palestine. >> want us to boycott your revision? and is ramadan more popular than easter? don't miss patrick christys tonight nine till 11 pm. be there .

till 11 pm. be there. >> hello. welcome back . this is >> hello. welcome back. this is dewbs& co with me. dawn neesom keeping you company until 7:00. brilliant panel with me, a journalist and author, benedict spence. and trade unionist and writer paul embry. i have to call them both, sir. now, after the last debate. obviously don't like because they're going for their quite right. so i'm their gongs. quite right. so i'm afraid a busted afraid i'm a bit of a busted flush, of you are flush, but loads of you are getting so really getting in touch, so really keep them views gb news them coming. gb views at gb news there screen. you know there on your screen. you know it's friday. message me. it's good friday. message me. talk okay. let's see what talk to me. okay. let's see what some have saying. some of you have been saying. rishi. mike. good, good evening. mike. god knows what time of day it is, mike should have mike says rishi should have knighted boris. bit boris. that's a bit controversial , isn't it. controversial, isn't it. meanwhile. oh, this is one for you, benedict. here we go. this is from ryan. newfound boy benedict speaking such truth. great debate then. thank you very glad you're enjoying very much. glad you're enjoying it, your money's in the post, ryan. >> yeah, exactly . yeah. he related. >> it could be. yeah. >> it could be. yeah. >> yeah, brother. meanwhile, val says there are plenty of trade

union leaders who have had honours and peerages from labour for funding their party. it's not. well, we did discuss that, didn't we? we mentioned our, cash which tony blair didn't we? we mentioned our, ca the which tony blair didn't we? we mentioned our, ca the labour hich tony blair didn't we? we mentioned our, ca the labour party, tony blair didn't we? we mentioned our, ca the labour party, whichy blair didn't we? we mentioned our, ca the labour party, which isilair in the labour party, which is why being why anneliese dodds was being a teeny weeny bit hypocritical there, and jeff , you're on my there, and jeff, you're on my team, here, says team, jeff here, jeff says the whole thing should be scrapped as it's always goals the as it's always goals for the boys. even when it's gongs boys. and even when it's gongs for the girls, i still think it's a of busted flush it's a bit of a busted flush now. right let's move on, shall we? by now. right let's move on, shall we?way by now. right let's move on, shall we?way , by now. right let's move on, shall we?way , a by now. right let's move on, shall we?way , a pub by now. right let's move on, shall we?way , a pub in by now. right let's move on, shall we?way , a pub in cornwall)y now. right let's move on, shall we?way , a pub in cornwall has the way, a pub in cornwall has had its nomination camra pub had its nomination for camra pub of the year revoked. but why? because because it had a swastika on display. but baa baa . but it was brought back from world war ii by a british soldier who wanted it up in the pub as a reminder of our victory over the nazis. it was a good thing we defeated the evil people . so in that context , thing we defeated the evil people . so in that context, is people. so in that context, is that okay? or are just some symbols beyond the pale, let's come to you first on this one,

paul come to you first on this one, paul. i mean, if you'd have walked into that pub and i have walked into that pub and i have walked into that pub, by the way , it's a very lovely pub, by the way, and seeing that nazi, it's an armband. it's a nazi armband with a swastika in it. and seeing that, what would you have done? >>i done? >> i would probably have asked if i was particularly interested. i might have asked the landlord or the barmaid or the landlord or whoever the bar, whoever was behind the bar, what? know, the. what? you know, the. >> we can see it in the pictures there. >> we can see it in the pictures the it's lovely pub, you know , >> it's a lovely pub, you know, the story was behind it, i the story was behind it, but i would probably assumed would probably have assumed something the i would have been the case. i wouldn't thought. mean , wouldn't have thought. i mean, especially seeing as it seems to be the case that there's all sorts paraphernalia on be the case that there's all so that paraphernalia on be the case that there's all so that pub,|phernalia on be the case that there's all so that pub, ihernalia on be the case that there's all so that pub, i wouldn't on be the case that there's all so that pub, i wouldn't have on in that pub, i wouldn't have thought, into thought, i've walked into a bastion fascism that's bastion of fascism that's been here time, and to here this whole time, and to nobody about . and nobody told me about. and i don't it's don't think that it's necessarily thing to necessarily a bad thing to display . i know display these things. i know that are there rules that there are there are rules around trophies things around war trophies and things like armband, like that. but a nazi armband, i don't think the worst thing don't think is the worst thing to taken from a defeated to have taken from a defeated enemy, to say person's been enemy, to say this person's been defeated, would defeated, but, you know, would a french taken at french tricolore taken at waterloo pale? waterloo be beyond the pale? would unacceptable ? the would that be unacceptable? the french, know, killed an

french, you know, killed an awful people during awful lot of people during napoleon's where awful lot of people during na you on's where awful lot of people during na you on's the where awful lot of people during nayouon's the line? where awful lot of people during na you on's the line? well,where awful lot of people during na you on's the line? well, thise do you draw the line? well, this is acceptable. do you draw the line? well, this is this acceptable. do you draw the line? well, this is this the :eptable. do you draw the line? well, this is this the thing le. do you draw the line? well, this is this the thing ,5. do you draw the line? well, this is this the thing , isn't it, >> this is the thing, isn't it, paul? this time i'm going to look say your name. look at you and say your name. paul look at you and say your name. paul. trick, i mean, paul. it's a trick, but, i mean, this now, evidently, this is a thing. now, evidently, one person complained, and the landlord this landlord reckoned that this person in person has never even been in the been this has been the pub. it's been this has been there for 80 years, by the way, andifs there for 80 years, by the way, and it's hidden in a very dark corner. you wouldn't even notice it. this one person it. okay, but this one person has and camera have has complained. and camera have stripped the pub of its coveted pub of the year. but this, this has got to be an overreaction. >> surely you said it yourself. context is everything, dawn. if this if this were flying from the roof, then it would be a different kettle of fish. it would be different. that's would be a different. that's a good you know. but it good point, you know. but it wasn't. presented in, you wasn't. it was presented in, you know, what you've said, know, from what you've said, quite tasteful as a item quite a tasteful way as a item of historical interest inside a glass cabinet and so on. it's not like someone was trying to use it politically in any sense to offend the local community or to offend the local community or to direct it towards certain people. it was the sort of thing

i imagine, that you would possibly see in the imperial war museum. i mean, there is there is stuff in the imperial war museum that was taken from the battlefield during the war, german paraphernalia and, and what have you. and if you saw that in the imperial war museum , that in the imperial war museum, presented in that way as a war trophy with a sort of write up underneath it, i suspect that most people would not bat an eyelid, but it seems to me that someone has decided, for reasons we don't know, but can probably guess, to take offence. and, you know, unfortunately, camera who i like. i think they do a great job, but i think they've caught it completely wrong on this one. and they're so quick. and they're just so quick. people are quick. people are so quick. institutions quick institutions are so quick to jump institutions are so quick to jump complaints where someone jump to complaints where someone has alleged offence. we have to deal with it . we have to wield deal with it. we have to wield the sledgehammer even when there isn't any call for it. isn't really any call for it. and that's what's happening. >> is really good >> i think that is a really good point. i mean, are we just becoming permanently offended, becoming a permanently offended, whining , woke, complaining

whining, woke, complaining society where, oh my god, you can't that . and then can't have that. and then institutions in that way. can't have that. and then insti:utions in that way. can't have that. and then insti mean, in that way. can't have that. and then insti mean, it in that way. can't have that. and then insti mean, it is in that way. can't have that. and then insti mean, it is the that way. can't have that. and then insti mean, it is the strange. >> i mean, it is the strange sort of juxtaposition that on the one hand, you might have a swastika armband, of swastika armband, which of course memories of the course denotes memories of the second world war and the holocaust the horrors holocaust and all the horrors that that. at the that came with that. but at the same time, seem to be same time, we seem to be reaching where reaching a stage where historical the historical illiteracy on the subject at subject of the holocaust is at an high. the last an all time high. over the last 80 we're people 80 years, we're actually people seem moving away from the seem to be moving away from the idea was some idea that it was some sort of unrwa, beatable nightmare and seemed it's seemed to think, actually, it's something that you can use to sort of link to any conflict that like this genocide, that you like this is genocide, this fascism. awful, this is fascism. this is awful, you actually, when it you know? so actually, when it comes of people comes to the subject of people being i'd being offended by it, i'd say ironic , given that this country ironic, given that this country is post—imperial history is almost predicated on we almost entirely predicated on we were that defeated the were the ones that defeated the fascists. good fascists. that makes us good people . the average person is people. the average person is moving very much away, i think, from of what from their understanding of what true and what was true nazism was and what it was that fighting against, true nazism was and what it was that it's fighting against, true nazism was and what it was that it's just fighting against, true nazism was and what it was that it's just become] against, true nazism was and what it was that it's just become aigainst, true nazism was and what it was that it's just become aigainstall and it's just become a catch all tum don't this. i tum for i don't like this. i find this offensive. >> i think you think of that famous where all famous photo where all the german were doing the

german soldiers were doing the nazi salute, there that nazi salute, and there was that one middle, very one guy in the middle, very famous was refusing one guy in the middle, very fardors was refusing one guy in the middle, very fardors for was refusing one guy in the middle, very fardors for his was refusing one guy in the middle, very fardors for his own was refusing one guy in the middle, very fardors for his own reasonsising one guy in the middle, very fardors for his own reasons .ing to do it for his own reasons. now, that photo, understandably and shared and rightly, has been shared around the world, and people look as a thing of look at that as a thing of historical importance and say there's a really important political message there, despite the fact that there dozens , the fact that there are dozens, possibly hundreds of people doing the nazi salute the doing the nazi salute in the photo . and that's the point photo. and that's the point about context being everything you would not ordinarily want to see a photo with lots of people doing the nazi salute, you wouldn't want to parade that photo. you wouldn't want to circulate that but circulate that photo. but in a particular context, such as look at the guy in the middle who's not doing the nazi salute. i think it's a really good thing that it think it's a really good thing thatitis think it's a really good thing that it is circulating things going here. going on here. >> i think. think you're >> i think. i think you're completely is completely right. there is diluting we use words like diluting when we use words like you're and sort of you're a nazi and sort of holocaust, and we're forgetting what they actually mean . but on what they actually mean. but on the other hand, we're also by taking like this down, taking things like this down, we're in of not being we're in danger of not being able from that path. we're in danger of not being abli from that path. we're in danger of not being abli think from that path. we're in danger of not being abli think it's rom that path. we're in danger of not being abli think it's important�*ath. we're in danger of not being abli think it's important tor. we're in danger of not being abli think it's important to say >> i think it's important to say that didn't to war against

that we didn't go to war against the nazis, so that 80 odd years later, we could find ourselves in a situation where people's languages , language and thought languages, language and thought and demonstrations and history can policed quite so can be policed quite so aggressively without any kind of recall context or anything recall to context or anything like that, where somebody simply calls up and dobs you in to the police or to the authorities or whoever, says person is whoever, and says this person is displaying something that is verboten, allowed, verboten, that is not allowed, and or the camera and the police go or the camera 90, and the police go or the camera go, whoever go. yes, go, or whoever it is, go. yes, you're right, not you're right, they're not allowed. be punished. allowed. they will be punished. that like that sounds a little bit like we're a certain we're going off in a certain direction, which i thought was the we were the antithesis of where we were supposed charlie supposed to give the charlie chapun supposed to give the charlie chaplin film great dictator, chaplin film the great dictator, where adolf hitler where he parodied adolf hitler brilliantly, i suspect that no one would be brave enough to do that today. and if somebody if somebody were to do that today, then their career would probably be destroyed because the very mention , in a, in mention of nazism, in a, in a kind of funny, comical way , kind of funny, comical way, would be seen as unconscionable. i think in today's society , and i think in today's society, and that's, you know, we've got to i

think we've got to be able to mock the nazis. we've got to be able to laugh at them. we've got to to them, and to be able to parody them, and we should be grown up enough to understand when understand the context. when somebody . we're not somebody does that. we're not talking about people doing it in somebody does that. we're not téwayg about people doing it in somebody does that. we're not téway that)ut people doing it in somebody does that. we're not téway that venerates doing it in somebody does that. we're not téway that venerates the ng it in somebody does that. we're not téway that venerates the nazis1 somebody does that. we're not téway that venerates the nazis , a way that venerates the nazis, or in some respects that pays homage them. it's about homage to them. it's about context. and we've lost when it comes to, you know, investigating complaints and people taking offence . we've people taking offence. we've lost context. we are and i think we need to we need organisation like camera to be a bit braver and to say, you know , we're not and to say, you know, we're not going to do anything about this. we've looked at the situation. don't up. there's don't be silly, grow up. there's nothing this is not nothing wrong here. this is not some pub landlord who's some neo—nazi pub landlord who's trying to peddle hate. no, this has taken in context, has got to be taken in context, but we don't have institutions brave that. but we don't have institutions bra'hole that. but we don't have institutions bra'hole in that. but we don't have institutions bra'hole in the that. but we don't have institutions bra'hole in the wallthat. but we don't have institutions bra'hole in the wall init. but we don't have institutions bra'hole in the wall in baldwin, >> hole in the wall in baldwin, if the way. if you're passing, by the way. meanwhile, getting in meanwhile, you keep getting in touch. lovely message meanwhile, you keep getting in toucialison, lovely message meanwhile, you keep getting in toucialison, good vely message meanwhile, you keep getting in toucialison, good evening;sage from alison, good evening alison. my father alison. alison says my father was given a gong for his service to the brigade. he did not to the fire brigade. he did not give the political give money to the political party this. was party to earn this. i was extremely proud of him. so

that's that's really nice that's a that's a really nice message, alison, because, i mean, you know, i'm getting a bit cynical about it's bit cynical about it and it's just, know, gongs just, you know, gongs for the boys know, boys type thing, just, you know, and get it. but and over a few bomb, get it. but they given to people that they are given to people that have their so have really given their all so exactly like your dad said. thanks for that message. i appreciate that. right. we have to unfortunately, to move on. unfortunately, coming british army has coming up, the british army has had lifted by had its beard ban lifted by royal command . is this the royal command. is this the answer to the recruitment crisis? don't go too far

hello. welcome back. this is dewbs& co with me. dawn neesom and keeping me company until 7:00. is a journalist and author, benedict spence. and trade unionist and writer paul embry. of your messages embry. some of your messages coming, i love these. please just keep to talking me. it's good friday. you've got much else to do. however, you as else to do. however, you may as well with anna, well have a chat with me, anna,

this interesting point this is a very interesting point and for giving the and thank you for giving the balance. were talking about balance. we were talking about the the swastika the nazi armband. the swastika armband it armband on display in a pub. it was war. it had was from the war. it had context, says, i think context, but anna says, i think it's inappropriate it's completely inappropriate considering historical considering it's historical connotations. it about connotations. but is it about the context? anna. meanwhile, mary a point i think all three of us made here, if they'd put a little note underneath it saying lest we forget, there should surely complaints. surely be no complaints. i wouldn't be, i wouldn't be that that that convinced of that, to be you. meanwhile be honest with you. meanwhile carol ladies here. carol says lots of ladies here. carol says lots of ladies here. carol oh, for goodness carol says, oh, for goodness sake, just memorabilia. but sake, it's just memorabilia. but not memorabilia. not in the memorabilia. sort of like, know, a gold disc or like, you know, a gold disc or something. context, something. i mean, a context, a reminder that we defeated the nazis. surely a good thing, right ? okay, now we're going to right? okay, now we're going to talk. i've got an expert in the studio with me on this one, it's been set in stone for 100 years, but now members of the british army have da beards. army can have da da da beards. it's all be with it's be with some length and style some strict length and style rules, it's not to easy

understand this, and it has to be signed off by the king's approval . be signed off by the king's approval. but we be signed off by the king's approval . but we have be signed off by the king's approval. but we have a recruitment crisis in our recruitment crisis in all of our armed forces . recruitment crisis in all of our armed forces. i think the navy is suffering more than the army. but all the same. and but i mean, all the same. and but, know, is this way but, you know, is this the way to go, actually people to go, actually allowing people to go, actually allowing people to now let's go to to have beards now let's go to our beard expert. hello paul. you've got a beard. and what do you make of this? >> i think it's a sensible decision. i think unless there's an operational reason, a good operational allow operational reason not to allow it. to say, i don't it. and i have to say, i don't think think think there is i think the argument army been argument in the army has been done been done to death. they've been arguing years, and arguing this for years, and they've the conclusion they've come to the conclusion that there isn't, other that actually there isn't, other than circumstances, than in specific circumstances, a reason for a good operational reason for generally banning beards, then i think it's a sensible thing. and of course, with sikhs for example. of course. yeah, they, they, they make, you know, adjustments to make sure that sikhs can, can serve in the army and other people who may, through religious reasons, wear a it seems to me and a beard, so it seems to me and beards are a bit back in fashion anyway, as you can tell.

obviously, me being the height of i wouldn't of fashion, i wouldn't be wearing otherwise, wearing one otherwise, so it seems that, know , the seems to me that, you know, the cultural thing. more and more men and if we men wearing beards and if we want men to join the army and we say, well, you can't if you want to wear a beard, that seems to me be a when we can't get me to be a when we can't get enough people to join the army, in case. in any case. >> but mentioning during the >> but you mentioning during the break as break about how as a firefighter, have firefighter, you couldn't have a beard practical reasons, correct. >> i was riding >> when i was riding fire engines, still the fire engines, i'm still in the fire brigade, but i've a desk job brigade, but i've got a desk job at so i get away brigade, but i've got a desk job at it. so i get away brigade, but i've got a desk job at it. but so i get away brigade, but i've got a desk job at it. but when get away brigade, but i've got a desk job at it. but when i get away brigade, but i've got a desk job at it. but when i was away with it. but but when i was riding, engines, have riding, fire engines, you have to breathing apparatus when to wear breathing apparatus when you're going a fire and you you're going into a fire and you have face mask, have to wear a face mask, obviously. and if you're wearing a beard, then chance a beard, then there's a chance you might not get a perfect seal on mask. in case, on the face mask. in which case, obviously and obviously smoke can leak in and so a good so forth. so there's a good operational reason in the fire. and this is a good example in the fire service, there's a good operational frontline operational reason for frontline firefighters not wearing beards, but i don't think that applies to the army. >> no i mean i'm not being funny here, benedict, but i mean, you know, we've got putin letting

rapists and murderers out of prison in the prison to go and fight in the ukraine. and we're about ukraine. and we're worried about people having a beard. >> interesting, as >> i mean, it's interesting, as you mentioned, we've got a recruitment shortage, as you recruitment shortage, but as you said number shortage is said, the number one shortage is the to be in the most acute, seems to be in the most acute, seems to be in the it's always been the navy. well, it's always been allowed in allowed to have been in the navy. fact, encouraged navy. in fact, it's encouraged for same reasons for many of the same reasons actually, the crimean actually, that in the crimean war, encouraged war, soldiers were encouraged to have it'll keep war, soldiers were encouraged to hav

did had . a ferocious nd soldiers had. a ferocious reputation across the world. they did very well out of the empire . for all the scots say empire. for all the scots say that they the colonies. but that they were the colonies. but i when it comes to the i think when it comes to the issue of recruitment into the armed this know, armed forces, this is, you know, as is a sort of as you say, this is a sort of a passing fad. the beards currently being back fashion. currently being back in fashion. i that's going i don't think that that's going to persuade somebody to make an entire because to persuade somebody to make an entire up because to persuade somebody to make an entire up the because to persuade somebody to make an entire up the b isause to persuade somebody to make an entire up the b is very signing up for the army is very much choice in the much a lifestyle choice in the truest in it can take your truest sense in it can take your whole life, so speak. i don't whole life, so to speak. i don't think that somebody who is perhaps, you know, perhaps facially endowed, so to speak, when it comes to, the beard when it comes to, to the beard is going to look at the new recruitment posters and go, oh, fantastic, armed forces are fantastic, the armed forces are clearly for me because i identify very strongly with the fact that can grow out fact that you can now grow out your hair. nobody's going your facial hair. nobody's going to decision. to make that decision. ultimately address ultimately it doesn't address the hold you say the scots >> hold on. you say the scots guards are big, ginger guards are big, bushy ginger beards intimidating . beards to be intimidating. >> king charles actually king king was in the king charles, when he was in the navy. there's a photograph not many people i suspect have seen it, commander of, it, but he was the commander of, i minesweeper called i think, a minesweeper called hms bonnington, and prince

philip, you may know no king charles. oh, king charles. yeah, he was in the navy and he he there is a photo of him wearing a in his navy uniform on a beard in his navy uniform on board. i think it was. >> navy is different, wasn't it? >> the navy was different. i don't exactly know the reasons >> the navy was different. i dorthat.ictly know the reasons >> the navy was different. i dorthat. it ly know the reasons >> the navy was different. i dorthat. it mayow the reasons >> the navy was different. i dorthat. it may be the reasons >> the navy was different. i dorthat. it may be because)ns >> the navy was different. i dorthat. it may be because they for that. it may be because they needed save and they needed to save water, and they didn't shaving every didn't want people shaving every day they're board day on board. they're on board a frigate aircraft frigate or an aircraft carrier or whatever . but yeah, or whatever. but yeah, traditionally, you know, people is thing , traditionally, you know, people is thing, isn't is a very common thing, isn't it, to see people in the, in the navy with beards. >> is this new policy >> but this is this new policy is ridiculous, right? the is ridiculous, right? by the way. like, know , but way. it's like, you know, but they're very, very strict rules. the length be between 2.5mm the length must be between 2.5mm and 25.5mm, which is an inch basically in old money and must be trimmed off the cheekbones and neck , and there must be no and neck, and there must be no patchy or uneven growth. and no exaggeration , colours. exaggeration, colours. >> again, this is presumably the reason that they kept this ban in place is it's about discipline. it's about keeping people them, them people looking them, making them look there's no look uniform so that there's no sort individuality . so if sort of individuality. so if you're going allow you're then going to allow beards you've to beards and then you've got to bnng beards and then you've got to bring these bring in all of these new, different regulations, different sort of regulations, what going have the

what are you going to have the drill up and drill sergeant going up and measuring whilst they're measuring them whilst they're on parade? a waste measuring them whilst they're on patime. a waste of time. >> time, you know, you wouldn't want the band of the want to see the band of the royal marching and royal marines marching out, and they've bushy they've all got big, wild, bushy beards, you beards, would you? i mean, you know, you wouldn't be able to see trumpets for a start. know, you wouldn't be able to see but trumpets for a start. know, you wouldn't be able to see but mean, its for a start. know, you wouldn't be able to see but mean, its for needs:. know, you wouldn't be able to see but mean, its for needs to but but i mean, there needs to be wasn't euphemism. >> there wasn't no, no . >> there wasn't no, no. >>— >> there wasn't no, no. >> the watershed tom >> before the watershed tom moore. not quite, but, you moore. no. not quite, but, you know, i think there know, they need i think there does some discipline does need to be some discipline around otherwise around it because otherwise they can unkempt. and can grow wild and unkempt. and that wouldn't, that wouldn't depict the, i mean, quickly running out of time here. depict the, i mean, quickly run but out of time here. depict the, i mean, quickly run but (mean, ime here. the >> but i mean, you know, the recruitment shortage we know. recruitment shortage as we know. but you know, but there have been, you know, all adverts for sort all these woke adverts for sort of people even of like people who can't even pass the fitness tests. >> i was say, you know, >> i was going to say, you know, when getting closer to when we're getting closer to a war, the adverts war, because the adverts suddenly being suddenly stop being about diversity can do diversity and anybody can do anything air anything in the navy or air force, it becomes force, and suddenly it becomes about, to about, we need men to kill people , blow things be people, blow things up. you'd be very this. that's how very good at this. that's how you we've moved a you know that we've moved from a peacetime might peacetime army to one that might actually somewhere. >> on. have beard, >> come on. fight! have a beard, see beard, see the world, grow a beard, right. okay. still to right. okay. right. still to come good but have come. it's good friday, but have you able to locate

you been able to locate a traditional hot cross bun? people are kicking off left, right and centre about the plethora different flavours plethora of different flavours available now, including. oh, i'll tell you after the break. okay. does it demean the values of easter? let me know. but don't too far.

oh. welcome back. this is dewbs& co with me. dawn neesom on good friday night and keeping me company until 7:00. is a journalist and author, benedict spence. and trade union. whoops. >> i'm outraged. you couldn't wait , wait. wait, wait. >> and benedict has just said to me, he goes, oh, i can't eat hot cross bun live on air. i won't be serious, will i? we've be serious, will i? and we've just caught him swigging a pint at honestly at work. honestly >> aside, but i'm a fat person in a slightly less fat person's body. just. just just body. i just. just just just just the script .

just just read the script. >> don't look at nutrition. >> don't look at nutrition. >> i can identify as a thin person. >> i just want to read. >> i just want to read. >> oh, god. honestly, what have we started here? i just want to read email and read this, this email out. and this subject of this one is on the subject of beards in army. this one's beards in the army. this one's from hello, mark, that from mark. hello, mark, is that beards are only ever frowned upon grow upon by people who can't grow them. me , although them. well, that's me, although i a guess, i could have a go, i guess, or is having a go at you. >> you know, you don't frown upon you like you said off here. you like beards. >> i like a man with the beards. >> i like a man with the beards. >> wait until you'll >> wait until november, you'll see. moustache see. you'll see my moustache again. make an again. oh, it does make an appearance, again. oh, it does make an appokay,:e, again. oh, it does make an appokay, well, you can >> okay, well, as you can probably dewberry is probably see, dewberry tavern is open, have given open, benedict might have given that away . whoops. and i'm that game away. whoops. and i'm serving until michelle gets back, so. cheers. have a good friday and hope you're having a smashing weekend out there. now it's time for most of us to it's a time for most of us to have the day off, sit back and enjoy nice hot cross bun . but enjoy a nice hot cross bun. but what flavour? salted what flavour? chocolate salted caramel, blueberry cheddar cheese is bacon. i'm not making this up, people . people are this up, people. people are kicking off left, right and centre about this. are we

desecrating an easter tradition or is it just a bit of hot cross bun, right. which one of you got a mouthful? >> at the moment i've just swallowed some blueberry . it was swallowed some blueberry. it was all right. it was. the chocolate was euphemism . was bad at euphemism. >> i don't know what you stir on tonight, paul, let's come to you first. got first. you haven't got a mouthful, you? mouthful, have you? >> never it be >> i haven't, i never let it be said is not a model said gb news is not a model employer. mean, cross employer. i mean, hot cross buns have different varieties. and a pint lager on a friday pint of german lager on a friday evening. i cannot imagine any other outlet would treat other media outlet would treat its guests right. >> okay, but i'm going tell >> okay, but i'm going to tell you weird combination to be honest. >> but not an unpleasant one. >> you don't get this on question time, you ? right. question time, do you? right. let's for the chocolate one let's go for the chocolate one first. have mouthful first. go on. i have a mouthful of reckon i'm of that one, sir. you reckon i'm not hot cross bun. >> mean, that's that's >> i mean, that's that's stretching isn't it? wrong stretching it, isn't it? wrong now? it wrong. now? it sounds wrong. >> yourself. >> talk amongst yourself. >> talk amongst yourself. >> it sounds wrong, i think it tastes wrong. actually. >> that one actually comes with a health warning, right? i mean, even called hot even though they're called hot cross no, not the cross buns. no, not the nutritional even though nutritional content. even though the hot. you can't actually heat

that one up that well, because the hot. you can't actually heat thyou ne up that well, because the hot. you can't actually heat thyou putp that well, because the hot. you can't actually heat thyou put itthat well, because the hot. you can't actually heat thyou put it in,t well, because the hot. you can't actually heat thyou put it in,t vactuallyause if you put it in, it actually says packaging nanny says on the packaging nanny state way, don't state warning. by the way, don't put the toaster because put this in the toaster because it's chocolate and it's got chocolate in it. and it'll melt. and the same applies to the caramel one, which is this one here that doesn't for me semblance of a hot me have any semblance of a hot cross bun. >> that's more that's >> that's that's more that's more chocolate more like a bit of chocolate cake, actually. more like a bit of chocolate cakyeah.jally. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> that chocolate takes away >> that is chocolate takes away from whole kind of. from from the whole kind of. >> bit sticky one. >> that's a bit sticky that one. yeah. like design flaw, >> sounds like a design flaw, but leave you to it. but we'll just leave you to it. >> do you want to? >> do you want to? >> he review. can review >> do you want to? >> four. review. can review >> do you want to? >> four. re one. can review >> do you want to? >> four. re one was can review >> do you want to? >> four. re one was reallyview all four. this one was really good. this good. demolish them all. this was . was the classic. >> very nice. >> and it is very nice. >> and it is very nice. >> yeah, that one's nice. >> and it is very nice. >> i yeah, that one's nice. >> and it is very nice. >> i mean h, that one's nice. >> and it is very nice. >> i mean ,, that one's nice. >> and it is very nice. >> i mean , it'sit one's nice. >> and it is very nice. >> i mean , it's notle's nice. >> and it is very nice. >> i mean , it's not just1ice. >> and it is very nice. >> i mean , it's not just the but i mean, it's not just the buns, right? that messing buns, right? that we're messing around with. you can also get hot bun flavoured cheese hot cross bun flavoured cheese now, and hot cross bun bun flavoured cheese . flavoured cheese. >> cheese. not the other way round. >> no no, no, but you can actually get hot cross buns with cheese in them. and look, i did some obviously some research. obviously i'm a serious journalist so serious journalist here, so salted caramel chocolate. we've got sticky toffee got blueberry sticky toffee pudding, lemon and white chocolate. anyone >> that's nice. i've had that. >> that's nice. i've had that.

>> that's nice. oh. have you? >> that's nice. oh. have you? >> sounds a bit weird. no, no. lemon and, chocolate and raspberry. >> lemon drizzle is nice. yeah >> lemon drizzle is nice. yeah >> lemon. well, yeah, easter doughnut, buns . doughnut, hot cross buns. anyone, hot cross anyone, chilli cheese. hot cross buns. now, that's a winner. fancy that. boys. >> oh. who came up with that? i've not me. i was just reading out mature people are depraved. >> oh, this one, this one sounds up your street. see if you're drunk off your beer already, rum and raisin. can't just and raisin. why can't you just get bun , rum and get a hot cross bun, rum and raisin ice cream? >> but i'm not sure about rum and raisin. hot cross, hot cross bun. >> well, they've got salted caramel. >> it's fairly similar. it's got rum it. rum in it. >> yeah. i mean, to be honest, i've tried now three, i've tried now all three, apart from classic and the from the classic and the blueberry and the caramel is good.the blueberry and the caramel is good. the chocolate not so good. yeah, well, that's a classic. but for me, the classic is still i >> -- >> it's got a cross on it as well. >> it's the flagship hot cross bunisnt >> it's the flagship hot cross bun isn't it. yeah >> and it's not got a tick on it. >> it's actually can be sweet. >> it's actually can be sweet. >> it's actually can be sweet. >> it can be had by itself. >> it can be had by itself. >> you can put a bit hungry, aren't you, by the way. yeah.

yeah. you're not eating day. aren't you, by the way. yeah. yeaireally?e not eating day. oh, really? >> no no, no. >>— >> no no, no. >> want seconds. >> you want seconds. >> you want seconds. >> there more we >> are there any more when we pan. when we pan over there i'm going steal. going to steal. >> yeah. because >> right. yeah. because everyone's eat. everyone's going oh go and eat. well i'm talking i'm actually supposed here. supposed to be working here. but you it's actually you know what? it's not actually just buns. just hot cross buns. i had a problem with. it's eggs. problem with. it's easter eggs. okay why? like getting okay why? you know, like getting an in an shape . an easter egg in an egg shape. you know, call old fashioned, you know, call me old fashioned, but gesture eggs but they're called gesture eggs now, was one shop, >> well, that was in one shop, to fair. to be fair. >> come mean, that was >> come on. i mean, that was that a story over. nothing, that was a story over. nothing, really, getting an really, but actually getting an easter egg that's shaped like an egg. easter egg that's shaped like an 999- get easter egg that's shaped like an egg. get dogs , dog egg. you can get dogs, dog shaped eggs. you can get cat shaped eggs. you can get cat shaped this is caterpillar shaped eggs. this is caterpillar ones, you can get i had one a couple of years ago, that was shaped like an aubergine. aubergine even. oh, right. okay. yeah. because it was sold by marks and sparks. other other supermarkets available, but supermarkets are available, but it was for vegans and vegetarian. >> that was the up—market. >> that was the up—market. >> but it was. yeah, i was going it these are it was better that these are just these things just shaped like these things rather flavoured these things. >> yeah, was things. >> yeah, the >> yeah, that was clearly the next step the next logical step in the marketing ploy. >> wouldn't want it >> and you wouldn't want it flavoured wouldn't want >> and you wouldn't want it fl.flavoured wouldn't want >> and you wouldn't want it fl.flavoured like wouldn't want >> and you wouldn't want it fl.flavoured like a wouldn't want >> and you wouldn't want it

fl.flavoured like a dog ldn't want it flavoured like a dog or a cat, wouldn't you? >> that it depends what >> that would be it depends what part you're selling part of the world you're selling this people like. honeybee. >> exactly. oh, you >> are you? exactly. oh, you have no idea. >> i'm enjoy this long >> i'm going to enjoy this long weekend and drinking, weekend of eating and drinking, especially seeing it's been weekend of eating and drinking, espec to .y seeing it's been weekend of eating and drinking, espec to .y seforg it's been weekend of eating and drinking, espec to .y sefor free. it's been given to me for free. >> exactly okay. >> exactly right. okay. have we got coming got any messages coming in about hoti think they're just >> i think they're just horrified. the viewers are just staring just thinking, staring at us, just thinking, what wrong? staring at us, just thinking, whtlt's wrong? staring at us, just thinking, whtlt's wrorwho are these >> it's like, who are these gluttons just gluttons that are just ploughing? well, gluttons that are just plougrt0]? well, gluttons that are just plougrto say, well, gluttons that are just plougrto say, even well, gluttons that are just plougrto say, even though/ell, i have to say, even though i don't the chocolate don't like the chocolate one particularly, washed don't like the chocolate one partic nicely washed don't like the chocolate one partic nicely by washed don't like the chocolate one partic nicely by the washed don't like the chocolate one partic nicely by the german ed don't like the chocolate one partic nicely by the german lager down nicely by the german lager that down nicely by the german lager tha yeah. it's a good >> yeah. it's a good combination, isn't it? >> yeah. now lots of people are going, god, that going, oh my god, that is disgusting. but disgusting. our. yeah. but i mean, it , disgusting. our. yeah. but i mean, it, it's. look, on a serious note, right? have we lost all our, we've you know, everyone's been discussing till the blue in the face. our, you know, the chick hot cross bun and the ramadan lights down oxford street. yeah. at the height what is officially, height of what is officially, obviously the most religious christian. christian festival of the year. so we're joking about this , but are we losing this, but are we losing traditions in this country? do you think benedict i think so, i

think, to be honest, i don't think, to be honest, i don't think there's anything wrong with celebrating ramadan in parts country where there parts of the country where there are large muslim communities. >> i think what people what gnnds >> i think what people what grinds on, people is that there is the celebration of ramadan and no apparent of and no apparent celebration of easter. it's easter. at the same time, it's almost christianity almost as if christianity is sort dispensable a of sort of dispensable in a sort of a feel that almost people a way. i feel that almost people look at as we sort of get christian festivals more sort of commercialised and more secularised. therefore commercialised and more seculydisposable therefore commercialised and more seculydisposable actually; more disposable and actually they can be shunted to one side, whereas i think a lot of christians are looking at what's happened christians are looking at what's happene a no, my hang on a second. no, my religion the largest religion is still the largest one. the one at the one. it's still the one at the cornerstone many aspects of cornerstone of many aspects of this society. why is it that this society. why is it that this shunted to one side? this can be shunted to one side? and you say, we're and i mean, as you say, we're sort joking about sort of joking about the commercialisation sort of joking about the comn buns. isation sort of joking about the comnbuns. but,yn sort of joking about the comnbuns. but, you know, cross buns. but, you know, whilst are not, you know, whilst these are not, you know, there's nothing in the bible that talks about hot cross buns. they are something that were invented stage in order they are something that were inyshiftd stage in order they are something that were inyshift things stage in order they are something that were inyshift things andtage in order they are something that were inyshift things andtagorder)rder they are something that were inyshift things andtagorder to,er to shift things and in order to, you something you know, have something to celebrate. not religious >> but they're not religious pagan times. >> they're they're >> yeah. they're not they're not sort of christian. they're not sort of christian. they're not sort line , part of any sort of hard line, part of any sort of hard line, part of any sort of hard line, part of any

sort of christian theocracy. at the i do feel that sort of christian theocracy. at the christians,o feel that sort of christian theocracy. at the christians,o lot that people, christians, a lot of christians, feel that their faith has been faith and their holiday has been slightly cheapened in much the same way as christmas has as well. >> there's a there's danger >> there's a there's a danger that become so that as a society, you become so tolerant and so inclusive to the extreme that what you do is you end up losing your own identity . end up losing your own identity. you end up losing that common thread, that common identity which is sustained you for, in our case, hundreds of years . our case, hundreds of years. >> and i think that's the path that we're unfortunately, on that we're unfortunately, on that have to go running that note, we have to go running out time so you tuck in, out of time so you can tuck in, boys, so just lovely. thanks to paul mbappe benedict paul mbappe and benedict spence, who enjoying their buns and who are enjoying their buns and their pint, next is lee anderson . don't go far. you don't . don't go too far. you don't want miss this. want to miss this. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello there. welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast on the metrics as we go through the rest of this easter weekend. for of us, we continue to

for most of us, we continue to see the some sunshine, see the mix of some sunshine, but also the risk of some rain at times. it's all courtesy of this low pressure, which this area of low pressure, which is going to hang around as we go through few but through the next few days, but winds up from south, winds coming up from the south, it feel bit less it should feel a little bit less cold. as we end good friday, cold. so as we end good friday, still, of some showers still, the risk of some showers across parts of scotland, northern western northern ireland, maybe western fringes of england and wales, but clear with but elsewhere turning clear with the risk of a few misty patches forming come dawn and also a touch of frost in the countryside. so we do start saturday off on a bit of a chilly note, but some sunshine from word go. risk of from the word go. risk of a little bit of and patchy little bit of cloud and patchy rain just reaching the very far east of england and the main focus of any showers tomorrow will again across more will be again across more western and northern parts of the country, but there should be a little bit fewer and further between compared today. between compared to today. temperature in the temperature wise in the sunshine. not feeling too bad. highs reaching around 14 or 15 degrees. having a look at easter day. a bit of a cloudy start across many eastern parts, but that will burn its way back

towards the north sea. so for many again, it's another day of some risk of a few some sunny spells. risk of a few showers, potentially a little bit more in the way of persistent rain arriving persistent rain just arriving in the south western the very far south western corner and that sets us up for a bit of a north south split on monday rather grey and wet in the hanging on to the the south, but hanging on to the sunshine north. the south, but hanging on to the sunlooks north. the south, but hanging on to the sunlooks things h. the south, but hanging on to the sunlooks things are heating >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. now. >> welcome to the andersons. real world. got a cracking line

up tonight. we've got greg svensson , vince cable. he's back svensson, vince cable. he's back on the show. christine hamilton, she's on the show for the second time. youtube sensation paul davis on the show for the first time. and beatles biographer philip norman. but first, let's go the . news. go to the. news. >> very good evening from the gb newsroom. just gone 7:00. i'm sam francis and we start with news from northern ireland, where the new leader of the democratic unionist party has tonight condemned what he calls conspiracy theories cheap conspiracy theories and cheap political point scoring following criminal charges brought against sir jeffrey donaldson. the departure of the dup's former leader and longest serving mp in northern ireland came after he was accused of serious historical sexual offences. a 57 year old woman has also been charged with aiding and abetting additional offences in relation to that same police investigation . well, same police investigation. well, gavin robinson was unanimously appointed interim leader appointed as the interim leader of the dup after sir jeffrey's