royal easter service at windsor. in his more significant public appearance since he was diagnosed cancer. we'll diagnosed with cancer. we'll have the latest on the royals easter weekend. labour's water plans and as sir keir starmer's party unveils tough sanctions on companies who treat our rivers as dumping grounds , can labour as dumping grounds, can labour tackle that significant sewage crisis .7 and of course, this show crisis? and of course, this show is absolutely nothing without you and your views. let me know your thoughts on all the stories we'll be discussing today. i want to know what you're up to this easter sunday. email me on gbviews@gbnews.com or message me on at at gb on our socials. we're at at gb news. first of all though, here's your news with sophia wenzler . wenzler. >> thanks, darren. good afternoon. it's 1:01. i'm sophia

afternoon. it's1:01. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom . your wenzler in the gb newsroom. your top story this hour. king charles has made his first significant public appearance since his cancer diagnosis. joined by the queen, he smiled and waved as he left an easter sunday service at saint george's chapelin sunday service at saint george's chapel in windsor and went on to greet crowds as he shook people's hands. one member of the public urged the king to keep going strong, with another telling we've got your telling him we've all got your back. of royal back. other members of the royal family there, the family were also there, but the prince princess wales prince and princess of wales missed as catherine missed service as catherine continues treatment . continues her cancer treatment. our royal correspondent cameron walker says this was an important moment for the monarch. >> king was very much determined to attend this very important eventin to attend this very important event in the christian calendar. he himself, of course, is head of the church . of england, so he of the church. of england, so he would have had a very strong religious feeling , needing to be religious feeling, needing to be there. but of course, there's another reason, that is to another reason, and that is to provide a message of reassurance

to following to the british public following the princess of wales's separate cancer and her treatment. >> meanwhile, the archbishop of canterbury has wished the king and the princess of wales well in an easter sermon at canterbury cathedral, justin welby encouraged the congregation to pray for charles and catherine as they both undergo treatment for cancer. and pope francis has presided over easter mass at the vatican. tens of thousands of people turned out to see the pontiff, and the delivery of his ubi a obe to the city and the world, blessing from the balcony of the saint peter's basilica, pope francis , who has been dealing francis, who has been dealing with health problems, used his address to renew his call for an immediate ceasefire in gaza, as well as the release of all israeli hostages . and in his israeli hostages. and in his easter message, the prime minister paid tribute to the work of churches and christian communities across the country. >> happy easter everyone i this >> happy easter everyone! this weekend, as people come together to celebrate and reflect on the

message of the heart of the easter festival, i want to pay tribute to the incredible work of christians in this country the churches, charities, volunteers and fundraisers who live the christian values of compassion, charity and self—sacrifice, supporting those in need and demonstrating what it means to love thy neighbour. >> sir keir starmer also posted on social media saying it's a time for optimism and new beginnings . the easter messages beginnings. the easter messages come as a new poll suggests the tories are on track for their worst general election result. survation found the party could win fewer than 100 seats, with labour predicted to sweep to power with a landslide victory of 468 seats. the 15,000 person poll indicated the conservatives would be wiped out in scotland and wales, and hold just 98 seats in england . the energy seats in england. the energy secretary has warned that labour's dangerous net zero plans would leave britain at the mercy of china . labour has mercy of china. labour has pledged to convert the country to clean power by 2035 years

earlier than the conservatives but claire coutinho told the telegraph the plan would leave the uk overreliant on chinese made metals cables and batteries, just as europe was weaning itself off russian oil and gas . and for the latest and gas. and for the latest story, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts. now it's back to gb news. sunday >> thank you as ever, sophia. let's get stuck to in today's topics now. a poll was published in the sunday times, and it suggests that if much talked about general election being held in the last few days, that the conservatives would have been wiped out in scotland and wales and would ultimately end up holding just 98 seats in england . that would mean only 13 england. that would mean only 13 of the 28 cabinet ministers

would actually hold their seats. this was a 15,000 person mrp poll means it's some highfaluting algorithmic poll that goes into the far end of absolutely everything, and it was conducted by survation on behalf of for best britain. now it has labour on 468 seats, the conservatives on 98 seats, the snp on 41 seats and the liberal democrats on 22 seats. joining me now is gb news political correspondent, katherine forster. catherine, i must say, i'm absolutely delighted that i'm absolutely delighted that i'm with you in the studio and not at a pro—palestine rally, but, you know, but, catherine, this is utterly damning for the conservative party. and dare i say that looking at those numbers, the conservative party has no friends in the house of commons. there is no way that this is going to be, you know, they're going to be kingmakers even shape or form, even in any way shape or form, is it? >> no, there's absolutely nobody

that they could do a deal with. the lib dems would certainly not go there again , nor would the go there again, nor would the dup. of course, they've got major problems of their own. this poll, if this came to happen. and of course things can change and change fast and it would be complete catastrophe. most of the cabinet taken out less than 100 seats, a majority for sir keir starmer of 286. bearin for sir keir starmer of 286. bear in mind that when tony blair got that labour landslide back in 1997, that majority was 179. so there's no way of sugar coating this for the conservatives at all. and of course, what it is going to do over easter weekend is make conservative mps who increasingly are convinced that they are doomed, panic and wonder what they should do about this. now, another poll says

that the majority of the public do not want the conservatives to change leader yet again , and of change leader yet again, and of conservative voters, 70% of them don't want them to change leader again. that may not stop the letters of no confidence going into sir graham brady , into sir graham brady, especially if, as expected, after the local elections , those after the local elections, those results are really very bad indeed. so what could happen is there could be a vote of no confidence in the prime minister, but there's no clear person to take over from him. and according to this poll, a lot of the people that would ultimately like his job, people like penny mordaunt, james cleverly, grant shapps and look set to lose their seats and worth. one quick note i think about the reform party. there's been a lot of talk about them and how high they are going in the polls. this poll projects

that they would get 8.5% of the vote behind the liberal democrats. however they stand to do huge damage to the conservative party. they also say that if some sort of deal was done with them, as happened with the brexit party back in 2000 to 2019, that the conservatives rather than getting 98 seats, would get 150. so it looks likely that the conservatives are going to be, frankly, eaten alive by labour on the left and by the reform party on the right. >> absolutely. i mean, i'm looking at the, you know , my own looking at the, you know, my own part of the world. there are mayoral elections going on for the first time in the whole region of the north east as nonh region of the north east as north yorkshire for example, that whole host that there are a whole host of ways you can see ways in which you can see conservative party politicians thinking, the is very thinking, well, the game is very much up, you know, so that would then support your theory that potentially conservative party politicians accidentally end up

triggering the starting gun for a leadership election. >> yes, there just doesn't seem to be any real way out of this, and there is no agreement. to be any real way out of this, and there is no agreement . and and there is no agreement. and of course, the very public spectacle of conservative mps arguing amongst themselves over what to do some of them publicly saying that they should take out yet another prime minister is pretty unedifying to the public, who tend not to vote for divided parties. also dominic cummings remember him ? no friend of the remember him? no friend of the conservative party has been saying that basically he thinks the potential for leadership, challenge and ultimately chaos after, may the 2nd is not sufficiently priced in. so we've had a lot of chaos, a lot of turbulence over the last couple of years, and it may well continue. rishi sunak will be hoping to get towards the end of the year, hoping the economy will improve , hoping to get will improve, hoping to get

people on flights to rwanda, hoping for interest rate cuts and a lot of hope. but who knows whether they will be able to recover from this pretty dire result at the moment. >> absolutely. and i mean the likes of dominic cummings, you know, have been tweeting pretty vociferously against the conservative party. but there are also , you know, former are also, you know, former conservative party politicians that are reported to have now become labour party advisers . become labour party advisers. catherine, i mean, this is just extraordinary. is it not? >> yes. and that's been happening for some time. i mean, marina wheeler, boris johnson's ex—wife, has been advising them for some time. there's been a steady drift because increasingly people in whitehall can see which way the wind is blowing. it's like the political oxygen is with labour. i saw it at party conference last year. there was an energy , there was

there was an energy, there was an enthusiasm with labour that simply wasn't there with the conservatives, the conservatives for the leaders speech, there were spaces. it all felt a little bit flat. and keir starmer, despite the glitter , starmer, despite the glitter, there was an energy, yeah. we have to see what happens. but it does look very unlikely at the moment that that the conservatives can turn things around. well i mean, catherine, the easter messages, mind watching rishi sunak's easter message? >> i thought it had been done by l, >> i thought it had been done by i, i thought it was one of those deep fake things. but anyway, we'll leave it there. katherine forster have a marvellously. so we'll to you again we'll be speaking to you again later you. as ever . later on. thank you. as ever. now i want to start then with my marvellous panel. i've got ben habib, who was deputy leader of reform uk , and benjamin reform uk, and benjamin butterworth nye gb news contributor and of course, host of one of the hosts of the saturday five, ben habib, i want to start with you . you do you to start with you. you do you feel like you're laughing all the way to the bank as far as

polling numbers are concerned? >> well, think you made very >> well, i think you made a very good point when you said that if the were held the election were to be held today, this what the results today, this is what the results would to survation would be. according to survation . but it's important to understand that the polls are changing quite radically. and i suspect we'll continue to change quite radically. so, for example , in the case of reform uk, which is the insert party, it is the party which is going to catalyse dramatic change in the political landscape of the united kingdom. we were polling 5% in october 2023. that's what we got in the tamworth by—election i got 13% in the wellingborough by—election so that nearly trebled our vote and now we're polling at 16% in the north of england. we're ahead of the tories. in the midlands we are neck and neck with the tories and i think it's only a matter of time. dare i say it, without tempting fate, that we will overtake the conservative party in a national poll. >> well, yougov say with men you

have done that. >> we have done that with men and that's a seismic political moment . we haven't had a poll moment. we haven't had a poll like that in this country since polls began. and, you know, we got the brexit party over the line in the euro elections in 2019. but that wasn't a general election. this is in respect of a general election . so it's a general election. so it's dramatic is happening. the dramatic what is happening. the other want to other thing i just want to quickly say salvation quickly say is salvation typically concerned , typically is more concerned, more cautious in predicting reform. uk's polling numbers. it's always at the lower end. yougov, savanta and others have us typically higher up. so salvation having us at 8.5% isn't representative of where the polls typically would be. and the last thing i'd like to say is this, by the way, is not, conservative move of voters moving to the labour party. there's no enthusiasm for laboun there's no enthusiasm for labour. if you look at how it's actually polled in the various by elections, their votes been steady. what's happening here is

small c conservatives absolutely and rightly fed up with the conservative party either switching to reform uk or staying at home. and the challenge reform uk has is to get those small c conservatives to vote on the day for us. >> easier said than done of course, of course. now benjamin butterworth no enthusiasm for the labour party. do you accept that is a soft vote, albeit that this is a soft vote, albeit a large vote? do you think people will turn out when it matters, which is on polling day? okay, so there's not a day? well okay, so there's not a tony blair style enthusiasm for labour or for keir starmer. >> that's a fair comment. >> that's a fair comment. >> but i think the idea that that means it's that automatically means it's a soft is, is a way that you soft vote is, is a way that you would in a normal election, maybe think, but there's no evidence now because evidence for that now because what's said time what's been said for some time is that you get closer to the is that as you get closer to the election, you into the election, as you get into the election, as you get into the election as are, that election year as we are, that that squeeze. that vote would squeeze. >> what you've >> and actually, what you've seen average polling seen in the average polling numbers labour's vote, numbers is that labour's vote, it's, how far ahead it is of the conservatives has actually grown slightly in the last few months.

the first few months of this yean the first few months of this year, rishi sunak is polling at the numbers liz truss had when she left office. so the direction of travel is ever so slightly to labour and away from the conservatives. i think one of the problems that they have, the tories, this is that, the tories, this is, is that, you've got this yellow wall, the southern seats, which the lib dems and labour can take, and you've got the blue wall, which is what got them the majority with now with boris johnson. now they want things. and with boris johnson. now they want what things. and with boris johnson. now they want what you're things. and with boris johnson. now they want what you're seeing and with boris johnson. now they want what you're seeing is1d i think what you're seeing is that rishi sunak can't have a consistent message. he can't have a government that's placed in either david cameron in either the david cameron space boris johnson space or the boris johnson space, he's trying to space, because he's trying to hold on to two very different types of voters. and think types of voters. and i think that's a nightmare. >> right. benjamin >> all right. so benjamin mentioned actually mentioned in there that actually sir perhaps is sir keir starmer perhaps is building of coalition building the kind of coalition that johnson built in that boris johnson built in 2019. think be able 2019. do you think he'll be able to hold on to such a coalition were he to win an election? because you know, small boats, i don't going to be don't think there's going to be any real action. >> there'll be no action, there'll net zero,

there'll be continued net zero, there'll be continued net zero, there'll be continued high taxation. there'll be an order. >> do you think they'll get a great opportunity? >> they won't, they'll be continued migration on continued mass migration on a legal basis. continued mass migration on a leg so3asis. continued mass migration on a leg so therefore then do you not >> so therefore then do you not accept some of the arguments that should step aside that say you should step aside in prevent that from happening? >> absolutely because the >> absolutely not. because the conservative party has delivered this point of an this country to the point of an existential threat at multiple levels, economically , we've got levels, economically, we've got national debt at a post—world war two, high taxation at a post—world war two high gdp per capha post—world war two high gdp per capita collapsing, inflation may be under control, but prices are much, much higher than wages should be in order to be able to meet that demand, meet the cost. demand immigration. mass unskilled immigration is undercut . british worker. we've undercut. british worker. we've got illegal migration out of control . the public services are control. the public services are broken. the private sector is issued, and almost, almost not, not almost. it is in competition now with the government is in competition to the private sector. we have a conservative government that actually sees the an

the private sector as an annoying in attempt annoying pimple in their attempt to raise capital because of their needs to raise more and more . we have a more debt. we have a conservative government that has practised for practised labour policies for the last 14 years. what this country needs and neither the conservative party nor the labour party offer it, is a 180 degree handbrake turn against the policy direction that both parties will take it in. if you look at labour, they've got no new policies beyond what conservatives say. it's all the same as the conservative party. it's just slightly worse, what we need is a complete change in direction. we need the manifesto, with the exception of net zero that boris johnson promised but did not deliver lower taxes. deregulation, get rid of net zero, slash immigration, bring the country together , ditch diversity, together, ditch diversity, equality and inclusion, which embeds in my view, prejudice in this country. we've got to change direction completely. >> all right. i mean, would you accept that assessment that the labour party is basically

continuity conservative government? >> no, i think what it's doing is trying not to scare the horses, which is what a labour party always has to do to get in power, because people have anxieties spending anxieties about spending and the economy, i would suggest economy, which i would suggest are borne out periods of are not borne out by periods of labour know, if labour government. you know, if only the kind of growth labour government. you know, if onlythe the kind of growth labour government. you know, if onlythe kindthe kind of growth labour government. you know, if onlythe kind ofe kind of growth labour government. you know, if onlythe kind of investment»wth labour government. you know, if onlythe kind of investment in h and the kind of investment in pubuc and the kind of investment in public services that happened from 97 to two thousand and seven. but i would just say one other thing on the tories hopes, which that idea that the which is that the idea that the economy slightly less economy getting slightly less worse probably worse are probably better description that description than improving that that will have a knock on to their polling results, i think that will have a knock on to thforpolling results, i think that will have a knock on to thfor theing results, i think that will have a knock on to thfor the birds sults, i think that will have a knock on to thfor the birds ,ults, i think that will have a knock on to thfor the birds , because nk that will have a knock on to thfor the birds , because if: that will have a knock on to thfor the birds , because if you is for the birds, because if you look at the last the look at the last time the country a similar country was in a similar position in 90s, the economy position in the 90s, the economy was doing really strong was actually doing really strong under and the tories under ken clarke and the tories by absolutely no by 97, and it had absolutely no impact . and i think what you're impact. and i think what you're looking at now with things like inflation it takes inflation falling, it takes a long for people to the long time for people to feel the benefits that , not the kind benefits of that, not the kind of months that rishi sunak has. and think any idea that and so i think any idea that that change in that marginal change in the economy help the economy is going to help the tories inflation tories and, and inflation dropping make the

dropping doesn't make up for the enormous economic damage that the inflationary has the inflationary period has already , because you need already had, because you need wages to go up to match what already has taken place. >> and inflation has been much more rampant than wage growth has been. >> and people emailing >> and so many people emailing in you know , wages may in saying, you know, wages may be but bills be going up, but my bills are going even faster. be going up, but my bills are going even faster . that's the going up even faster. that's the problem, right? okay. we're going more analysis from going to get more analysis from you two on. thank you as you two later on. thank you as even you two later on. thank you as ever. for the best ever. now for all the best analysis and opinion on that story much more. you story and much, much more. you can go to our website gbnews.com fastest growing thanks to you. you're with me darren grimes on gb news sunday. we've got loads more coming up on today's show. we'll discuss the king's easter service at windsor. all of that and more. you're with gb news, britain's news channel

welcome back to gb news sunday with me.

darren grimes on your tv, online and on digital radio. now, his majesty king charles, the third has made his first significant pubuc has made his first significant public appearance since his cancer diagnosis during an easter service. very easter sunday service. this very morning. the monarch was joined by his her majesty the queen and other members of the royal family in saint george's chapel at windsor castle, but not the waleses. our royal correspondent, cameron walker has the story for us. >> well, this was the most significant public appearance by his majesty the king since his cancer diagnosis. he appeared well . he was cancer diagnosis. he appeared well. he was smiling. he was waving to the crowds who had gathered outside saint george's chapelin gathered outside saint george's chapel in windsor ahead of this easter sunday service. he was with other members of the royal family princess anne, tim lawrence, prince andrew, the duchess of york, the duke and duchess of york, the duke and duchess of york, the duke and duchess of edinburgh and the earl of wessex as well. it was very much a scaled back service that was to protect the king, who was still undergoing cancer

treatment. he cannot be around too many crowds at the moment, and he said he was saddened that he couldn't attend the maundy thursday at worcester thursday service at worcester cathedral and peter phillips, his nephew , earlier this week, his nephew, earlier this week, spoke of his frustration at spoke of his frustration at spoke of his frustration at spoke of the king's frustration. but he couldn't carry out public engagements at the moment, so the very much the king was very much determined this very determined to attend this very important event in the christian calendar. , of course, calendar. he himself, of course, is head of the church of england , so he would have had a very strong religious feeling, needing to be there. but of course, there's another reason, and that is to provide a message of reassurance to the british and that is to provide a message of reasfollowingy the british and that is to provide a message of reasfollowing the british and that is to provide a message of reasfollowing the princess of public following the princess of wales's separate cancer diagnosis and her treatment. she, the prince of wales and their three children prince george, princess charlotte and prince louis were not at the easter sunday service because prince louis were not at the easteare jnday service because prince louis were not at the easteare atiay service because prince louis were not at the easteare at home vice because prince louis were not at the easteare at home in:e because prince louis were not at the easteare at home in private.se they are at home in private. because of that , because of her because of that, because of her cancer treatment and coming to terms with that. so it was very

important for the king to provide that message of reassurance to the public. certainly not a, the start of him returning to public duties, but it's certainly a step in the right direction. but it's certainly a step in the rigicatherine]. but it's certainly a step in the rigicatherine walker there gb >> catherine walker there gb news is very own royal reporter benjamin butterworth . i wonder, benjamin butterworth. i wonder, looking at the his majesty the king shaking hands there and being we were all told, you know he had to sit away from the congregation, at the actual service. i don't understand that . how can he shake hands and still have to sit away from this, this service itself? >> i mean, i don't know, i don't know, i've never i've never had any sort of contact with cancer in my family life. >> thank goodness . and, you >> thank goodness. and, you know, presumably, god forbid, immunosuppressives. >> he's taking is it. and it might be that i mean, i'm not a i'm not a medic. just say that very straight off. but it could be that outdoors. he's less susceptible than he is. >> wonder is >> well, i wonder our view is i'm we'll put me i'm sure we'll we'll put me right email in. but it was right and email in. but it was reassured all the same to see

his majesty the out there his majesty the king out there shaking , meeting people shaking hands, meeting people very the outpouring very touched by the outpouring of love and admiration for him personally. but his majesty the king has always had a profound christian faith . he, like his christian faith. he, like his late mother, is a deeply rooted christian and, anglican. and this is a very important time of year to him. >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, it'll be a problem if he wasn't, because it's pretty essential to the but, but, know, the job. but, but, you know, i think , you know, here is a man think, you know, here is a man that's 70 years to get that's waited 70 years to get the job he was destined for. and so only imagine how so you can only imagine how frustrating it is, not just as a person to have that terrible health battle to manage, to overcome, but also to not be able to carry out those kind of duties. you know, you hear people that have worked with him in past, they talk how in the past, they talk about how he will, have dinner he will, you know, have dinner and back to his work and then go back to his work until or 11 pm. night, until 10 or 11 pm. at night, much like late mother, much like his late mother, clearly very committed to the actual way you actual job in a way that you know, most of don't see. and

know, most of us don't see. and so, know, it must really so, you know, it must be really frustrating . and so day like frustrating. and so a day like today, he can justify today, when he can justify meeting some of the public and being seen and giving us that confidence think must confidence in him, i think must be, be a great comfort to confidence in him, i think must be, as be a great comfort to confidence in him, i think must be, as a, be a great comfort to confidence in him, i think must be, as a, asa great comfort to confidence in him, i think must be, as a, as a great comfort to confidence in him, i think must be, as a, as a humanymfort to confidence in him, i think must be, as a, as a human being to confidence in him, i think must be, as a, as a human being .0 him as a, as a human being. >> absolutely. i mean, ben, you know, you and i are perhaps two peasin know, you and i are perhaps two peas in a pod some ways, and peas in a pod in some ways, and ihave peas in a pod in some ways, and i have certain disagreements with over with his majesty the king over the years . the years. >> so do i, but but i think it's profoundly moving, actually, the way in which they have come together at this time. >> the royal family, the monarchy, during a time especially for prince william. it must be torrid to have your wife and your father suffering the same disease. >> yeah. and i think obviously , >> yeah. and i think obviously, you know, one expects one's parents to pass, but, you know, your wife is your children's mother and your life partner. and so it's a very human level, you know, it must be very difficult for him, particularly

with all the public scrutiny and criticism that was made of her. it was awful, frankly . it was it was awful, frankly. it was awful. and one of the things that i think we've forgotten as a nation is the respect, the kind of discretion that we used to have when a someone was suffering, you know, you'd absent yourself from the debate, you'd show respect by not discussing and certainly not criticising. but i'm delighted that to the extent that things needed be open to needed to be in the open to quell that public, you know, questioning that has happened and that the king is back in action. and i hope to see kate middleton doing her formerly middleton doing her formerly middleton doing her thing again, princess of wales, princess of wales , as they might say. yeah. wales, as they might say. yeah. >> i do think, though, that , you >> i do think, though, that, you know, i'm not sure that in the past people were kinder to the royals because you think back past people were kinder to the royals previous you think back past people were kinder to the royals previous princessink back past people were kinder to the royals previous princess of back to the previous princess of wales, , obviously she wales, diana, obviously she faced harking further back. well, i was just going to say , i well, i was just going to say, i think anne robinson think of how anne robinson exposed diana had exposed the fact that, diana had bulimia, you know, that was revealed in the daily mirror.

>> think without any permission. >> and so, you know, think we >> and so, you know, i think we probably aware of the probably are more aware of the fact we need to treat them fact that we need to treat them decently. think we've had decently. but i think we've had a last couple of a period in the last couple of months where we've seen how a period in the last couple of monthmediaa we've seen how a period in the last couple of monthmediaa we'v

when she should actually when she should have actually constrained her position and treated the office and the position held with great position she held with great respect care. and think position she held with great respallowedcare. and think position she held with great respallowed the. and think position she held with great respallowed the paradigm nk position she held with great respallowed the paradigm to she allowed the paradigm to shift. and it's obviously that's very challenging as well with the queen dying because she really knew the benefit of, you know , stiff upper lip, get on know, stiff upper lip, get on with the job. don't bear your heart and soul in public. be typically british. >> i think that entire generation knew that, didn't they , and to lose them was to they, and to lose them was to lose a big part of who we are. but let's move on. thank you very much to my panel there, ben habib and benjamin butterworth. we'll see what they have to say in a bit. now, coming up, you're with , darren grimes, but with me, darren grimes, but we've got loads more coming up on the show today . we're going on the show today. we're going to discussing labour's water to be discussing labour's water plans. are they? will it plans. what are they? will it change? you're dying. we'll have a first of all, though, a look. first of all, though, it's news with sophia.

it's your news with sophia. >> thanks, darren. it's 131. it's your news with sophia. >> thanks, darren. it's131. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. your headlines, king charles has made his first significant public appearance since his cancer diagnosis. joined by the queen, he smiled and as he left an easter and waved as he left an easter sunday service at saint george's chapelin sunday service at saint george's chapel in windsor and went on to greet crowds shaking people's hands. greet crowds shaking people's hands . other members of the hands. other members of the royal family were also there, but the prince and princess of wales missed the service. as catherine her cancer catherine continues her cancer treatment , tens of thousands of treatment, tens of thousands of people turned out to see pope francis preside over easter mass at the vatican, and the delivery of his urbi et orbi to the city and the world. blessing from the balcony of saint peter's basilica, the pontiff, who has been dealing with health problems, used his address to renew his call for an immediate ceasefire in gaza as well as the release of all israeli hostages . release of all israeli hostages. and a new poll suggests the tories are on track for their worst general election result. survation found the party could

win fewer than 100 seats, with labour predicted to sweep to power with a landslide victory of 468 seats. the 15,000 person poll indicated the conservatives would be wiped out in scotland and wales, and hold just 98 seats in england . and for the seats in england. and for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts . news. com slash alerts. >> thank you sophia. remember folks, you can get in touch about all the topics we're going to be covering today. you can do that by emailing me on gb views at gb news. com or message me on our socials. we're at at gb news. loads more coming up on today's show can sir keir starmer stop the sewage or are his party's plans a busted flush? did you see what i did there? we'll be finding out more. all of that and more. i'm darren you're with gb darren grimes and you're with gb news, channel

>> 2024 a battleground year. >> 2024 a battleground year. >> the year. the nation decides. >> the year. the nation decides. >> as the parties gear up their campaigns for the next general election. >> who will be left standing when the british people make one of the biggest decisions of their lives ? their lives? >> who will rise and who will fall? >> let's find out together for every moment. >> the highs, the lows, the twists and turns. >> we'll be with you for every step of this journey in 2024. >> gb news is britain's election . channel. >> welcome back to gb news sunday with me, darren grimes on your tv, online and on digital radio. now, with all the excitement and the chaos of politics and the news, it's easy to get caught up in the hubbub and bubble, isn't it? we should.

however, i think, especially today, take moments to reflect on the quiet and little things that matter to us, especially over a very special and holy weekend. and what better way to do it than through art? well, the grove gallery in london are today showcasing new artists at the ideal home exhibition as a way of attracting a new audience of art lovers so that many more people can actually take an interest in culture and reflection. well, i'm delighted to say that harry redknapp, of course, former premier league manager supremo , joins me now. manager supremo, joins me now. harry, cheers very much for your company . hey, go on then. tell company. hey, go on then. tell us what you've seen today. what's it all about? has it been is it a veritable success? >> it's an amazing art. >> it's an amazing art. >> it's an amazing art. >> it's there's so many things. >> it's there's so many things. >> i'm taking some home with me for sure today. >> yeah . i'm for sure today. >> yeah. i'm at the for sure today. >> yeah . i'm at the grove >> yeah. i'm at the grove gallery here today with a friend of mine, james, who's got this amazing exhibition here. amazing exhibition over here. and, yeah, it's a nice way to spend a sunday and i'm here for

the next couple of hours helping him out. and, then i'm going to watch football . watch the football. >> so what? what does it mean to you then, harry? got you you then, harry? what got you involved project ? involved in this project? >> well, it's just some amazing young, young artists who are making their way in the world, and they've got so much talent. >> and you see a chance for them to showcase what can do. to showcase what they can do. >> anything that helps the >> so anything that helps the younger people, you know, we all need a break in life. and why having these exhibitions, it gives them a chance to showcase what they can do. people come along and see it and that's world of great art is probably start according to me. you know, somebody, somebody somewhere loved what they do and their careers take off. and that's what some of these young artists are hoping for in the future. >> all right. so, harry, if people want to find out more about what's going and what about what's going on and what what been involved what work you've been involved in, they actually do in, where can they actually do so ? so? >> well, this is this is the ideal home exhibition. is that the grove gallery here, so i'm

sure, you know, you can go onune sure, you know, you can go online and see the art. the grove gallery and, and see what sort of stuff they do. and they've some amazing, they've got some amazing, amazing they can amazing works that they can look at and prints at some originals and prints that you haven't got to spend a fortune if you want a great print, i'm going to take a couple that have got some great sayings with them, you know, and, know , great to have and, you know, great to have around the house. yeah real quality stuff. >> absolutely. well, harry, brilliant stuff. thank you very much for joining brilliant stuff. thank you very much forjoining us today brilliant stuff. thank you very much for joining us today of brilliant stuff. thank you very much forjoining us today of all much for joining us today of all days. good luck with it. and i hopeit days. good luck with it. and i hope it brings in a crowd. harry redknapp there. thank you. now labour are going to put polluting water companies under special measures with a package of tough sanctions to protect britain's beautiful holiday spots . of course, the oxford and spots. of course, the oxford and cambridge race yesterday they couldn't get into the water because apparently it was so full of e coli . doesn't sound full of e coli. doesn't sound very nice, does it? this pledge

comes as as this easter holiday makers, of course, they they're going . beach goers, wild going out. beach goers, wild swimmers, apparently they exist . swimmers, apparently they exist. they've all been warned against swimming in dozens of rivers and coastal areas across england, including many famous spots that i've no doubt you'd recognise. well, joining me now is jim dale, senior meteorologist. meteorologist. even at british weather services. jim, thank you for your company. i mean, do you support these labour measures ? support these labour measures? are they going to be enough to prevent this from happening? just what's going on? >> well, we have our >> well, we have to bide our time because obviously there's going to an election and going to be an election and they've win election they've got to win the election before there. they've got to win the election befyand there. they've got to win the election befyand by there. they've got to win the election befyand by the :here. they've got to win the election befyand by the looks of things on >> and by the looks of things on that poll, they will be that savanta poll, they will be doing yes, step step, doing so, yes, step by step, little by little. but nothing's going to be worse what going to be worse than what we've seen , over the last we've seen, over the last several years. and this really goes back to the privatisation of water companies. should of water companies. never should have . it's happened. have happened. it's happened. and so there's your first cog in, what is a almost a in, in what is a almost a quadruple whammy. the next one

was brexit, which removed, the eu stringent environmental laws, which allowed then, water companies in concert with a very feeble tory party that were in concert with the, the shareholders. so all, all the emphasis shifted to profit rather than necessarily to public, well—being and safety, and then you've got ofwat off water, which is basically a line without teeth is going nowhere fast. put all that together and you end up with what you've got at this moment in time and you're dead. right. you know what? i watched the boat race yesterday and it was over yesterday and it was all over there. and to be frank with there. and it to be frank with you, you hear stories. and i don't think they're stories. i think they're true. >> the sewage was going in into the river thames as they were rowing. the river thames as they were rowir mean, crass the river thames as they were rowirmean, crass is the river thames as they were rowir mean, crass is this the river thames as they were rowirmean, crass is this ? >> i mean, how crass is this? how crass is it? >> so, no, we need a major, major change. and i hope that the party, once they get the labour party, once they get to , will make those to government, will make those changes in a robust way. >> well, labour party ,

>> well, the labour party, though, aren't proposing to take us european union. us back into the european union. >> , you say brexit >> i mean, you say brexit is partly for this partly responsible for all this waste pumped into our waste being pumped into our rivers. it was happening before brexit, come jim , you brexit, though. come on jim, you know, many people agree with you on particular issue. but on this particular issue. but when bring brexit into it i when you bring brexit into it i think slightly do think that's slightly unfair. do you not not really know 2016. >> our beaches had what's called blue flags, blue flags were, were an idea of the, of the eu in terms of ensuring that those laws, the environmental laws that they brought in, stayed there. and if you didn't have a blue flag, it meant your blue flag, it meant that your beach some way, beach was, was was in some way, polluted or not as good as the next, next beach. so people strove for that. they strove for environmental. and i'll say this openly, okay, this you talk, you know, people talk about the red wall and a lot of emphasis on the in terms of the the red wall in terms of the direction of travel. as far as i'll you what, this is the i'll tell you what, this is the blue wall. it absolutely blue wall. make it absolutely clear that these areas, including , the pm's own own including, the pm's own own constituency in richmond , this

constituency in richmond, this is where the rivers and the seas come together . and those users come together. and those users that you already mentioned, the wild swimmers, the fishermen, the boaters, you name it, those sort of people, they love their waterways . and this will be waterways. and this will be a death knell in those blue wall seats for the tory party. and i think that's been shown in that, in that savanta poll. >> all right. so i mean, in the, in the interim, i mean, how soon do you think this is going to be resolved? because does seem resolved? because it does seem that across that there's consensus across parliament now that something needs happen. how needs to happen. i mean, how quickly can we actually sort out this issue? because it's obviously unacceptable . obviously unacceptable. >> yeah. first of all, foremost, we've got get the we've got to get the perpetrators , and as i say, perpetrators out, and as i say, the tories in, in, in, in with the, the water companies, the shareholders at and the ceos of these companies, well, that's a tall charge , jim. tall charge, jim. >> you know, rishi sunak is not in bed with thames water , who's in bed with thames water, who's in bed with thames water, who's in charge of this country? well, rishi sunak but you just

mentioned the shareholders of thames water. >> that's a that's a serious accusation . accusation. >> yeah. darren. they got power when they go to shareholders meetings , they can actually meetings, they can actually vote. they can vote ceo in and vote. they can vote a ceo in and out. they can they can vote change agenda. you change the agenda. i think you know that what's happened is, is all of this in, in fairly rapid time as, as almost sunk under the bridge the river. and the bridge in the river. and that's what we're now picking up. so yes, it will take time. there's no doubt about that. the first part of this first the first part of this is the . clean up the mess. the cleanup. clean up the mess. but in order to get there, we've got to get rid of this government. we've got to move it. by the way, i know ben it. and by the way, i know ben sitting alongside you there. it won't the reform, that won't be the reform, party, that same savanta poll showed that, they might come second in, in six seats. that doesn't get you anywhere . there's only going to anywhere. there's only going to be two parties that have the chance of forming the next government and doing anything about the about this, and that is the labour party and the conservative party. pick your choice . choice. >> all right. jim dale, thank

you very much for your thoughts . you very much for your thoughts. now you're with me, darren grimes. i'm going to go to the panel the break, by the panel after the break, by the way. for habib to be way. so wait for ben habib to be given right of there given a right of reply. there you're me, grimes on you're with me, darren grimes on gb more gb news sunday. lords. more coming up and those plans coming up and on those plans actually , labour, do we need actually, labour, do we need a labour government to sort this out? that's we'll be out? that's what we'll be answering. all of that and more to you're

welcome back to gb news sunday with me. darren grimes. on your tv, onune darren grimes. on your tv, online and on digital radio. now before the break, we were, of course, discussing labour's water plans with jim dale. a lot of you emailing in with some pretty strident thoughts on jim dale and ashley has written in to say the dirtiest rivers in europe are in the eu. so unless some the sun or the danube and the rhine in particular for the

seine was filthy. >> yes, yes, yeah , i'll start >> yes, yes, yeah, i'll start with you, ben habib, because he, he was pretty vociferous. well, he was pretty vociferous. well, he was pretty vociferous. well, he was he was fundamentally , he was he was fundamentally, factually wrong. is it brexit's fault? >> yeah. so let me just address the brexit point. when we left the brexit point. when we left the european union, we signed a trade and cooperation agreement which continue to which required us to continue to hold on our statute books. all those laws in relation to state aid, competition, the environment and employment, aid, competition, the environment and employment , the environment and employment, the environment. we have not repealed any environmental laws since we left the eu. our statute book is the same as it was then. brexit's got nothing to do with the water companies behaving badly. jim needs to go and do his research. i know he's consumed with a hatred of an independent, sovereign united kingdom, but he should go and do his research before he attacks a tax . you know, our tax. you know, our constitutional move out of the eu, that's the first thing. the second thing is he talked about

reform uk not being able to get seats , and that it would be seats, and that it would be a choice between labour and the tory party by that declaration. what he is saying is that no one outside the two main parties is entitled to express a view. well, i whole wholly disagree with him, particularly when the two main parties are of the same complexion delivering. as we discussed in the last segment, pretty much the same policies that have driven the united kingdom to the precipice of disaster . and the last thing disaster. and the last thing i'll say for a left winger such as jim , the one point he should as jim, the one point he should have made, which fundamentally escaped was that you can't escaped him was that you can't successfully privatise monopoly businesses such as thames water, especially if they're essential to public well—being and health, which the water companies are. and these water companies have been abusing their position as a private sector in private sector ownership , not just by private sector in private sector ownership, not just by pumping sewage into water, but by allowing billions of gallons of water to leak. for years, the leaks that have gone on in the

thames water have gone on for decades. thames water have gone on for decades . and that, you know, we decades. and that, you know, we have a we have a drought every summer. that's not because we haven't got enough rain. it's because thames water hasn't been doing and problem doing its job. and the problem with privatising essential pubuc with privatising essential public services, which cannot be subject competition, is then subject to competition, is then you then have to set up a regulator and the regulator for ofwat. in this case it's like playing whack a mole every time they try and close down some mechanism which the mechanism by which the management and shareholders are enriching management enriching themselves. management and being bright, and shareholders being bright, entrepreneurial, capable, find other to do it. and so the other ways to do it. and so the essential point here is thames water should never have been privatised in the first place. >> so despite the great cost of nationalisation in reform, uk would support it. >> absolutely . you may >> i think absolutely. you may want you want want to have you may want to have private management, have private sector management, but you mustn't have private sector that sector ownership because that ownership goes in, goes against the principle service which that industry is meant to be providing . providing. >> now, benjamin butterworth ,

>> now, benjamin butterworth, you're a man familiar with a bit of sewage. >> most of your views, you know, are reminiscent of what the boat race experience yesterday , do race experience yesterday, do you actually do you agree with ben?! you actually do you agree with ben? i assume that nationalisation of the industry is necessary. >> i mean, at least in theory. the problem is how expensive it is. you know, once something's been privatised, much like the railways, which also the majority of public are majority of the public are clear, majority of the public think should be nationalised. but practicalities of it are but the practicalities of it are labour on the railways. >> labour's just say, well, you let the franchise and let the franchise expire and then automatically brought then it automatically is brought back under to state control and some bus companies are doing that, some local authorities and so on, allowing bus companies to go into state control, go back into state control, indeed. go back into state control, indeed . and maybe that's the way indeed. and maybe that's the way to do it, i think. i think that's probably not something that's probably not something that's likely to happen that's so likely to happen with water. honest. water. to be honest. i don't think something that think it's something that labour's to pledge. labour's going to pledge. but but say is that you but what i would say is that you have problem and hit on

have a problem and ben hit on it, that, it, which is that, these shareholders continue to take it, which is that, these sha fantastic, continue to take it, which is that, these sha fantastic, youinue to take it, which is that, these sha fantastic, you know,» take out fantastic, you know, dividends while these things are failing. and i think the proposal that she should change the law so that they can't make those payments so long as they're failing to clean up the water, they're failing to stop the they're failing the leaks. they're failing indeed, reservoirs , indeed, to build new reservoirs, which we haven't in this country for three decades, which for about three decades, which is , you know, as we enter is why, you know, as we enter british summertime today, you know, hosepipe time know, it's british hosepipe time usually. think that's usually. and i think that's a serious problem. which government could solve pretty easily. know, you shouldn't government could solve pretty easable know, you shouldn't government could solve pretty easable to know, you shouldn't government could solve pretty easable to be ow, you shouldn't government could solve pretty easable to be making shouldn't government could solve pretty easable to be making fabulous be able to be making fabulous profits you're doing profits when you're not doing the is pretty the basic job. water is pretty bafic the basic job. water is pretty basic job, but we'll bringing the water companies under state control actually solve that issue, because we still have a problem with people not wanting to build anything in this country. >> so how will we get reservoirs where we them? where we need them? >> have to say, >> i mean, i have to say, i strongly agree with what keir starmer his , conference starmer said in his, conference speech last year, which was that you need to take some power away, actually from local councils and very small numbers

of local people being able to object to a house being built or a reservoir being put in place, you need central you actually need central government take over those government to take over those things. get stuck government to take over those things.quagmire get stuck government to take over those things.quagmire where et stuck government to take over those things.quagmire where we tuck government to take over those things.quagmire where we are; government to take over those things.quagmire where we are now in the quagmire where we are now very quickly. >> ben, what i would say to that is, we actually is, you know, if we actually reduced migration reduced the mass migration coming country , that coming to this country, that would the burden on would help with the burden on pubuc would help with the burden on public vast . public services is vast. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> all right. ben habib there, deputy of uk . and deputy leader of reform uk. and benjamin butterworth be benjamin butterworth will be coming weather. coming back after the weather. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news . news. news. news. >> hello there. welcome to your latest gb news weather. we've had some sunshine across the north and the west, but over the next 24 hours it does turn more unsettled. pressure unsettled. low pressure dominating the weather yet again. over the next few days. we see further spells of rain, heavy showers pushing across the country , some brisk winds later country, some brisk winds later on in the week as well for the evening time, we do have some

heavy showers pushing into central southern areas. we could see localised flooding central southern areas. we could see metofficeised flooding central southern areas. we could see metoffice warning ding central southern areas. we could see metoffice warning in|g central southern areas. we could see metoffice warning in force here. metoffice warning in force for the evening time and then overnight rain pushes overnight this rain pushes slowly northwards, further rain pushing eastern areas too, pushing into eastern areas too, with northern ireland and scotland the driest scotland seeing the driest weather with some clear spells. but the vast majority of us temperatures remaining above freezing. so a mixed start on monday, outbreaks of rain across northern england into central parts and wales as well, some of this heavy at times brighter skies following across central southern areas. but into the afternoon we'll see some heavy thundery showers developing, some possible parts of some hail possible parts of northern ireland and scotland will drier weather, will see some drier weather, some sunny spells and here temperatures lifting to around 13 or 14 celsius feeling quite cold under the cloud and rain. temperatures in single figures . temperatures in single figures. for tuesday, we'll see areas of rain across the top and tail of the country. in between we'll see some sunny spells, but some scattered showers also developing and it remains unsettled for the week ahead. further showers and some heavy

spells of rain as well, and temperatures just climbing a little . little. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers as sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> hello and welcome to gb news sunday. thank you very much for staying with us. i'm darren grimes, for and this next hour, i'll be keeping you company on tv, online and on digital radio. coming up this hour, tori paul disaster is. the sunday times reports that the tories could get under 100 seats. it would make blair's 97 victory look like child's play, and voters seem united against a coup against rishi sunak. is there now any hope for that party? asylum seeker conversions home secretary james cleverly has

warned churches not to allow asylum seekers to exploit the system by converting an inverted commas to christianity, should religion play any part in our asylum system? union flag backlash labour activists complain to their leader about union flag branding on leaflets. would a red flag be more to their liking? or maybe a trans one? or maybe the palestinian one? or maybe the palestinian one? this show , though, is one? this show, though, is nothing without you and your views. let me know your thoughts on all the stories we'll be discussing today. you can email me please do gb views gb me please do gb views at gb news. com me company. this news. com keep me company. this easter or message me on our socials at at gb news. socials we're at at gb news. first of all though, here's your news bulletins with sophia wenzler . for. wenzler. for. >> thanks, darren. good afternoon. it's 2:01. i'm sophia

wenzler in the gb newsroom . king wenzler in the gb newsroom. king charles has made his first significant public appearance since his cancer diagnosis. joined by the queen, he smiled and waved as he left an easter sunday service at saint george's chapelin sunday service at saint george's chapel in windsor and went on to greet the crowds. other members of the royal family were also there, but the prince and princess of wales missed the service as catherine continues her cancer treatment. our royal correspondent cameron walker says this was an important moment for the monarch. >> the king was very much determined to attend this very important event in the christian calendar. he himself, of course, is head of the church of england, so he would have had a very strong religious feeling , very strong religious feeling, needing to be there. but of course, there's another reason, and that is to provide a message of the british of reassurance to the british pubuc of reassurance to the british public the princess of public following the princess of wales's separate cancer diagnosis and her treatment. >> meanwhile, the archbishop of canterbury has wished the king and princess of wales well

dunng and princess of wales well during his easter sermon at canterbury cathedral, justin welby encouraged the congregation to pray for charles and catherine and praise their dignity as they both undergo treatment for cancer . dignity as they both undergo treatment for cancer. and pope francis has presided over easter mass at the vatican. tens of thousands of people turned out to see the pontiff and the delivery of his obe, a orbi blessing from the balcony of saint peter's basilica. pope francis, who has been dealing with health problems in recent weeks, used his address to renew his call for an immediate ceasefire in gaza, along with the release israeli the release of all israeli hostages . and in his easter hostages. and in his easter message, the prime minister paid tribute to the work of churches and christian communities across the country. >> happy easter everyone ! this >> happy easter everyone! this weekend, as people come together to celebrate and reflect on the message of the heart of the easter festival. i want to pay tribute to the incredible work of christians in this country the churches, charities, volunteers and fundraisers who

lived the christian values of compassion, charity and self—sacrifice, supporting those in need and demonstrating what it means to love thy neighbour. >> sir keir starmer also posted on social media saying it's a time for optimism and new beginnings. the easter messages come as a new poll suggests the tories are on track for their worst general election result. survation found the party could win fewer than 100 seats with labour are predicted to sweep to power with a landslide victory of 468 seats. the 15,000 person poll indicated the conservatives would be wiped out in scotland and wales, and hold just 98 seats in england . the energy seats in england. the energy secretary has warned that labour's dangerous net zero plans would leave britain at the mercy of china . labour has mercy of china. labour has pledged to convert the country to clean power by 2030. that's five years earlier than the conservatives but claire coutinho told the telegraph the plan would leave the uk overreliant on chinese made metals cables and batteries,

just as europe was weaning itself off russian oil and gas. and for the latest stories , sign and for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen, or go to gbnews.com/alerts . now go to gbnews.com/alerts. now it's back to gb news. sunday. >> thanks a lot, sofia. let's get stuck into today's topics. a poll published in the sunday times suggests that if the much talked about general election had been held in the last few days, the conservatives would have been reduced to a rump in scotland and wales completely wiped out and hold just 98 seats in england . only 13 of the 28 in england. only 13 of the 28 cabinet members would actually hold on to their seats, and as for the british public, well, according to a sun on sunday poll , a according to a sun on sunday poll, a whopping 62% say the conservatives shouldn't change leader just conservatives shouldn't change leaderjust now

conservatives shouldn't change leader just now , while just 38% leader just now, while just 38% back the move. so what on earth do they do? well, joining me now is gb news political correspondent, katherine forster. catherine, always a pleasure . i mean, to what extent pleasure. i mean, to what extent would this make 1997 catherine look like child's play? where it actually to be borne out in an election? >> yes. i mean, labour would if this happened in reality and of course, the election probably not for a few months. things can change and change fast, but tony blair, that huge labour landslide , he got a majority of landslide, he got a majority of 179 seats. this mrp poll 15,000 people. they tend to be quite accurate. but of course it's just a snapshot now i would give sir keir starmer 286. so over 100 seats more than labour back in 1997. there's really no good news in this poll for the

conservatives at all. rishi sunak the prime minister in his easter message, talking about this being a time to reflect he is likely to be reflecting on this poll as indeed, i imagine are all conservative mps now . we are all conservative mps now. we know that over 60 have already said that they are not going to stand when rishi sunak came in after the chaos of liz truss and bofis after the chaos of liz truss and boris johnson, the feeling was that rishi sunak would restore stability. that he'd be calm, competent. he made what was seen as quite uninspiring pledges. the thinking was they would achieve that. the polls would narrow. that is not happening and they are running out of time. so by these forecasts, a lot of the conservatives are already thinking about what happens after the general election and who would like to be leader, and there's plenty of

them. but quite a few of those people. penny mordaunt, for example , the leader of the example, the leader of the house, james cleverly, the home secretary , grant shapps the secretary, grant shapps the defence secretary on these projections, would all lose their seats in fact, most of the cabinet would . pretty much. the cabinet would. pretty much. the only good news for rishi sunak is that a different poll says the majority of voters do not want an early election, if that's what they're thinking about doing . so i don't want to about doing. so i don't want to change policies, don't want to change policies, don't want to change leader before the election, in fact, 70% of conservative voters think that that would be a bad idea. that doesn't mean of course, that it's not going to happen because it's not going to happen because it could happen by accident . but it could happen by accident. but if enough disgruntled mps put in letters to sir graham brady. >> yeah, because the sun on sunday do say that their chances

of any form of poll bounce or upfick of any form of poll bounce or uptick would be under penny mordaunt. but as you rightly identify , she could be set to identify, she could be set to lose her seat. so that leaves you with alternatives such as kemi badenoch, who's the mp for saffron walden, and that is a very, very safe constituency. if there is such a thing, catherine, as a safe constituency these days, i don't think there really is. >> but yes, as you say, darren kemi badenoch , the business kemi badenoch, the business secretary, looks like one of the few should be safe. now we few that should be safe. now we know that she would like to be in charge of the conservative party she may be one of the few left standing , but the bad news left standing, but the bad news for her is that another poll, the same poll that shows that penny mordaunt would narrow the gap with labour slightly, shows that if kemi badenoch were put in and the gap with labour would get even bigger. so although she's popular with many on the right of the party that think that she could be the answer, it

looks like with floating voters, they're not wildly keen on her. >> yeah, i mean, catherine, what makes this poll particularly different, this mrp poll, because one of my viewers, an, has emailed in and she says lies, damn lies and polls have they ever been accurate. and she's got a point. you know in 2016 they said brexit wouldn't win . in 2017 they said theresa win. in 2017 they said theresa may would win. and in 2019 it wasn't predicted in an 80 seat majority for boris johnson . so majority for boris johnson. so just how much can we actually trust this will be how the trust that this will be how the makeup of parliament that is actually reflected on after polling day? >> well, we simply don't know. and as you've said , polls have and as you've said, polls have been wrong time and time again . been wrong time and time again. i remember the morning of the brexit referendum. they gave remain something like an eight point lead . i think millions of point lead. i think millions of people went to vote feeling pretty sure that we weren't going to leave. and then of course, there was this huge

political earthquake. so no, we don't know. but the way that this mrp poll is done, the way it's worked out , they do tend to it's worked out, they do tend to be fairly accurate. and you can go on the sunday times website . go on the sunday times website. you can go constituency by constituency and look at see what projected , who's projected what projected, who's projected to be in charge. lee anderson, for instance, who's recently defected to reform his ashfield constituency, currently is projected to go back to labour, but yes, it is just a snapshot and voters are changeable. the days of people saying they only vote for one party. yeah sure, that does still happen, but there's a lot of floating voters , a lot of people undecided and something like about 51% of people , according to this poll, people, according to this poll, who still don't know . so lots to who still don't know. so lots to play

who still don't know. so lots to play for, but difficult to see as things stand, how the conservatives win the next election. >> absolutely a sticky wicket in the extreme . katherine forster the extreme. katherine forster there. thank you very much. as even there. thank you very much. as ever. i'm going to see what my panel make of this. of course, i'm still joined by ben habib, deputy leader of reform uk, and benjamin butterworth , certainly benjamin butterworth, certainly not leader of reform uk not deputy leader of reform uk and, ben habib, i mean, i'm reminded of that wordsworth quote bliss. was it in that dawn to be alive but to be young was very heaven. when catherine mentions the brexit vote and the poll surprised there. are you suspecting a poll surprise or do you think you'll wake up, read your paper on the morning after the election and think, well, there we are. that's that. >> and richard tice is prime minister? >> well , no, i minister? >> well, no, i mean, i think that there are a number of things have taken place. things that have taken place. >> is electorate >> the first is the electorate has fact that has woken up to the fact that the two party system has produced roughly the same direction of policy for the country , and that that direction

country, and that that direction has delivered this country into peril . people are aware of that. peril. people are aware of that. people want to punish the tories. i want to punish the tories. i want to punish the tories. the reason i joined reform uk was because i wanted to obliterate the tory party. >> but then what do you say to people, though, that say, oh come that's well come on, ben, that's all well and good. maybe i agree with you. i feel very let down by the conservatives they promised me levelling promised levelling up. they promised to get in a real, get brexit done in a real, meaningful so that it could meaningful way so that it could deliver people. deliver for the british people. we'd have tailor made solutions. instead, we've got a straitjacket with the windsor framework, as you've identified many times on this very channel, and whole of and a whole host of other things. i for vote reform things. and if i for vote reform uk, all i'm doing is wasting a vote party that's going to vote for a party that's going to do i don't like. do things i don't like. >> only way country is >> the only way this country is going to really make policies for united kingdom and the for the united kingdom and the betterment of its people is if people change the way they vote, if they keep voting for the conservatives they will reward bad behaviour because this government has behaved abysmally and they'll embed bad

governance. the conservative government has to be absolutely annihilated at the general election and it will happen. what is clear is to what what is not clear is to what extent reform uk will be known by the broader electorate , and by the broader electorate, and whether the political wind that is carried reform uk from 1% three years ago to 5% six months ago, and now 16% if those political winds continue once you get under the first past the post system, once you go north of 20, every percent thereafter, we get a lot more seats. >> so are you telling me then in 2010, we had cleggmania, are we going to have tice mania? >> well, i think that the political science in this country have changed dramatically and the notion that the there's an entitlement for either the conservative party or the labour party to govern is going and people recognise that if they want to save the united kingdom, they've got to change the way they vote. and the only change on ticket is reform change on the ticket is reform uk. of parties is

uk. any other of the parties is roughly the same policies . roughly the same policies. >> tasmania benjamin butterworth i'm all right. >> thanks. i mean, look, as lovely as it is to hear a party election broadcast, the fact is that, you know, this poll today and this a far more and this is a far more sophisticated , far larger poll. sophisticated, far larger poll. these very expensive these are very expensive to carry why you carry out, which is why you don't get many them. and don't get many of them. and there more reliable. there are a lot more reliable. it it puts reform on 8.5, it puts it puts reform on 8.5, which is than a third of which is less than a third of what the tories are getting. it's a long way from some of the outliers which which are basically being referred to . i basically being referred to. i think, you know, you might see reform doing all right in the polls, but if we talk about the squeeze to happen, squeeze that's going to happen, it's going to be on a party like reform, because that reform, because you know that about a third voters about a third of those voters could be back to the could be tempted back to the tories . it's interestingly, only tories. it's interestingly, only 4% of reforms. voters would go back laboun 4% of reforms. voters would go back labour, which is why back to labour, which is why it's such a nightmare for the tories, because this is not like ukip or the brexit party, which took significant chunk of took a significant chunk of people would otherwise people that would otherwise support party . i

support the labour party. i think in reality, you know, the fact is that it will make the conservatives do incredibly badly. this poll has them on 98 mps after election . however, mps after the election. however, you know, the fact is that the tories have governed so appallingly and they've failed to satisfy either the typical floating voters or those on the right that care about things like immigration. yeah. >> well i mean immigration is going to be one surely. going to be a big one surely. and don't think either of the going to be a big one surely. and partieshink either of the going to be a big one surely. and parties seem ither of the going to be a big one surely. and parties seem to er of the going to be a big one surely. and parties seem to havethe going to be a big one surely. and parties seem to have ae going to be a big one surely. and parties seem to have a plan main parties seem to have a plan do they. >> yeah. i mean ijust, ijust develop the point benjamin's made. know, he's saying that made. you know, he's saying that the conservative parties fail to satisfy those on the left of the, party those on the, of their party and those on the, of their party and those on the fundamentally the right. it's fundamentally they've failed the nation. that's the point. but immigration is huge and immigration is a huge issue. and immigration is a huge issue. and immigration is a huge issue. and immigration is not a cultural issue. it's not a cultural issue. it's not a cultural issue. it's not a cultural issue. it has economic ramifications. it has constitutional ramifications . constitutional ramifications. you know, this is a very big issue. and the conservative party and those who wish to shut down the debate over immigration will accuse those of us who want to have the debate of being

xenophobic not xenophobic or racist. it's not xenophobic or racist. it's not xenophobic to xenophobic or racist to recognise that british citizens wages will be undercut if you import cheap labour. it's not racist to recognise that companies will not innovate, they will not upskill , they will they will not upskill, they will not automate if they have access to cheap labour. embedding a third world economic model in a first world country, people have to recognise that multiculturalism, which is, you know , gone to the forefront of know, gone to the forefront of this cultural debate, is damaging for the united kingdom on that point . on that point. >> then there, ben, ben habib raises there. benjamin butterworth , you're a big, butterworth, you're a big, supporter of the state of israel . you must look at the scenes that we've seen last night where people were openly saying they support people were support hamas, where people were openly i mean, apparently there was one swastika spotted in the in the, crowd of protesters . you in the, crowd of protesters. you must listen to ben habib saying multiculturalism hasn't worked and think maybe ben habib has point. >> no, i've never thought that,

what? >> that i've made a point. i've >> that i've made a point. i've >> it's never, never occurred to me, not even on the generosity of easter, look, you know, i think the scenes that we've seen with those protests, first of all, many of the people those all, many of the people in those protests are you of protests are not, you know, of an ethnic minority, a great many of them are white and british born. and so i think it's a bit of a mistake to say it's simply immigration, i think what you've had difficulty the had is a difficulty with the police those rules. so police enforcing those rules. so there was a video that i watched onune there was a video that i watched online of a woman who'd been on the israeli side of the counter protest , talking about how a protest, talking about how a swastika placard swastika had been on a placard and police declined to take and the police declined to take any action. i don't think that's got anything to do with multiculture think that's multiculture ism. i think that's ill who ill trained police officers who don't know how to manage those situations. fact is that situations. the fact is that i wasn't making that point, by the way. >> right. >> right. >> but i'm yeah, responding to darren. but the fact is that i think, you know, britain has benefited enormously from immigration. you look at city immigration. you look at a city like london and it is the centre of it has so much

of the world. it has so much incredible talent, a incredible talent, such a vibrant economy that produces far more than it takes out of the country. and i'm sorry, but only two regions of this country put more into the country than they take out. that's london and they take out. that's london and the east, which have the the south east, which have the heaviest levels of immigration. if we didn't have immigration, if we didn't capital if we didn't have this capital city, the of the city, then the rest of the country , some it as poor country, some of it is as poor as no . as 110. >> as no. >> ben habib is xenophobic then, because he said that's i don't think i need to say that. well, well, what do you think he is to argue that he's entitled to? is there a misconception there? >> he's entitled to disagree with levels of immigration with the levels of immigration and shows and actually nothing shows the fact that the tories have lost the the that the argument, like the fact that when 700 odd when the figure of 700 odd thousand immigrants in one year came out, yvette cooper, the shadow we could shadow home secretary we could easily far much. easily say that's far too much. labour the immigration labour will cut the immigration levels compared, because that is pretty idea pretty extreme. but the idea that immigration principle that immigration in principle is bad i think, bad for this country, i think, is no, no, has said is no, no, no, no one has said that. is no, no, no, no one has said tha no said immigration >> no one has said immigration in principle is bad for this country. it's not about the

principle of immigration. it's about the speed and quantity of immigration. we simply can't cope. had to create cope. and we've had to create government regulation, regulations and laws which mistakenly set out to welcome immigrants. and i'm referring to diversity , equality and diversity, equality and inclusion, which is in resulted inclusion, which is in resulted in effectively the embedding of prejudice in the institutions private enterprise, education establishments, service establishments, civil service against the white majority in this country. so tell me, how many people whose parents are in care should have their care homes should not have their their ones? nothing to do their loved ones? nothing to do with that. there are. >> it has everything to do. >> it has everything to do. >> it has everything. benjamin there are 6 million. >> everything with that. >> everything to do with that. >> everything to do with that. >> got >> because benjamin it's got nothing. no >> if you saying by >> if you are saying run by immigrants, you're you made you've you've confused and you've you've confused cause and effect what you've said. >> the first is you said london is a city. we've got lots is a great city. we've got lots of immigrants. therefore immigration good immigration must be good for london. not true. london's always a great city. london always been a great city. london is city for many is a great city for many fundamental reasons, have fundamental reasons, which have got the got nothing to do with the racial of london. number

racial makeup of london. number one. two, notion that one. number two, the notion that we can't look after our elderly without preying upon third world countries who've trained care workers, who've trained nurses. we go there, we recruit them , we go there, we recruit them, bnng we go there, we recruit them, bring them back, create a bigger burden for our own public services. and we've got 6 million people on universal credit to a greater or less extent . we need to train our own extent. we need to train our own people. and by the way, last thing, there's a cap on the number of people who can do medical degrees in this country. we that cap at we have to remove that cap at a very fundamental level. i agree. >> of all, very briefly, >> first of all, very briefly, ben, conflate ben, it's wrong to conflate people credit with people on universal credit with people on universal credit with people because most people out of work because most of are in full time of those people are in full time work, making enough work, but not making enough money out of the 6 million. no, out of the six sufficient wages, you've had your chance and the fact. you're factually fact. but you're factually wrong. in the wrong. the fact is that in the care know that care sector, we know that considerable number of those people, come to people, people that have come to this do jobs, and if people, people that have come to thisdidn't do jobs, and if people, people that have come to thisdidn't have do jobs, and if people, people that have come to thisdidn't have thoseys, and if people, people that have come to thisdidn't have those immigrants, we didn't have those immigrants, you would not have people being we didn't have those immigrants, you wfor.i not have people being we didn't have those immigrants, you wfor. you have people being we didn't have those immigrants, you wfor. you would 3eople being we didn't have those immigrants, you wfor. you would notyle being we didn't have those immigrants, you wfor. you would not have ing

cared for. you would not have the level of nurses that we have, and our care sector would collapse. and so say collapse. and so when you say that be lower that there should be lower levels of immigration, you're saying people go saying that people should go without because without those services because that's the reality. no. >> right. >> all right. >> all right. >> only million out >> only 1.5 million people out of the 6 million people who are on universal credit are actually working . 2 million aren't even working. 2 million aren't even looking for a job. that's not true at all. well, it's an absolute fact. you can catch people on. >> benefits are in work . people on. >> benefits are in work. in work. poverty is a fundamental wrong. >> you're just wrong. benjamin right. >> i'm going to let the viewers decide right for and all decide who was right for and all the best analysis and ding dongs, actually look at dongs, you can actually look at that. find that story online gb news. com we've got lots of opinions there. you're with news. com we've got lots of opirdarren there. you're with news. com we've got lots of opirdarren grimes you're with news. com we've got lots of opirdarren grimes onl're with news. com we've got lots of opirdarren grimes on gb with news. com we've got lots of opirdarren grimes on gb news me darren grimes on gb news sunday lords more coming up on today's show. we're going to be discussing the in asylum discussing the rise in asylum seekers converting to christianity to avoid deportation. that deportation. all of that and more , you're with gb news, more, you're with gb news, britain's news channel

welcome back to gb news. sunday with me. darren grimes. on your tv, onune darren grimes. on your tv, online and on digital radio. now, james cleverly has warned churches to not allow asylum seekers to cheat the system by converting to christianity in order to obtain asylum status, claiming that there's a real difference between welcoming someone to a congregation and vouching for a person in an asylum tribunal . now, the home asylum tribunal. now, the home secretary's comments come after it emerged clap and substance attacker abdul ezedi was granted asylum by a judge who had accepted that he had converted to christianity. this was despite concerns that ezedi, who was a convicted sex offender, by the way, was lying. it also comes, however, as the house of lords debated this week, christian persecutions around the world as more than 8000

christians were killed in nigeria alone in 2023. that's according to the open doors charity joining me now is international security and border control expert henry bolton. henry, thank you very much for your company. >> where do we draw the line here between , giving a si king, here between, giving a si king, giving asylum, granting asylum to christians who are being persecuted in the likes of nigeria, pakistan. >> it could be a multitude of places . and actually recognising places. and actually recognising that there are going to be some people who say they are christian, who say they they could say they are gay, they could say they are gay, they could say they are gay, they could say there are multitude things, in order to actually get status, to stay here. >> indeed, they're gaming the system. i mean, i think there's three things. and you just two things and you've brought up a third, if you like, which is the persecution of christians abroad. haven't heard abroad. and we haven't heard enough british enough about that in the british press. i don't know why and enough about that in the british palso i don't know why and enough about that in the british palso don't't know why and enough about that in the british palso don't't knctherhy and enough about that in the british palso don't't kncthe church, and i also don't hear the church, the archbishop of canterbury and the archbishop of canterbury and

the calling the church of england, calling this out and saying, what are we going to do about this? but, with regard to the ezedi case and james cleverly's comments , and james cleverly's comments, look, first of all, the church of england has got an issue internally. that's a matter for them. but it has political connotations because it is political. but we've just had an archdeacon of was it norwich? i'm not quite sure , who has said i'm not quite sure, who has said that she's she wants to put an end to whiteness , but she's not, end to whiteness, but she's not, she's not anti—white. i mean, i don't know what that means . don't know what that means. quite. but there is a i think we all accept that the church is taking a position on, on, on, asylum seekers, on refugees, on, on various things that is essentially political, not purely religious , and ethical in purely religious, and ethical in that sense that involves the church in a whole quagmire of issues . and that's what they've issues. and that's what they've done here. they've got an issue to, to deal with. and indeed they're being i believe that they're being i believe that they being abused. they are

they are being abused. they are being exploited. their goodwill, if you like, is being exploited by liars, by cheats, by people who should not under any circumstances , be given refuge circumstances, be given refuge in this country or frankly, any other who are using the church of england to try and game the system. all right. and that's an issue for the for for the, the church of england, really i don't and an interesting point . don't and an interesting point. do we see conversions to the greek orthodox church or the serbian orthodox church or the russian orthodox church, or to the jewish church or anybody else like that in the uk? i don't think we do know. and so there is a they are exploiting there is a they are exploiting the church of england specifically , and there's an specifically, and there's an issue to be addressed there, however big but the church of england itself as an institution or ethically is not or legally is not responsible for safeguarding the british people against the people who are coming to this country, who might do harm to the public or or national security for that matter. that is what they argue.

>> that's what they say. henry. yeah >> and they're actually right. and james cleverly and the home office are trying to pass the buck here to the church of england. no if you think somebody is lying and trying to gain gain, the reject gain gain, the system, reject their simply their asylum claim, don't simply say , oh, well, it's a matter of say, oh, well, it's a matter of fact that they've they've followed the process to become to convert to christianity . it to convert to christianity. it means diddly squat. okay. they are gaming the system. if you let them do that, then more and more will do so. and we need to reject those asylum claims . yes, reject those asylum claims. yes, there'll be an outcry because, you know, that's why they do it. but the home office has got to stand firm on this. its job is to protect the british people. and in the yazidi case, it's a clear example where didn't and in the yazidi case, it's a clethat. ample where didn't and in the yazidi case, it's a clethat. theye where didn't and in the yazidi case, it's a clethat. they failede didn't and in the yazidi case, it's a clethat. they failed bitterlyidn't and in the yazidi case, it's a clethat. they failed bitterly to 't do that. they failed bitterly to do that. they failed bitterly to do that. they failed bitterly to do that. and so, you know, let's not allow james cleverly to pass the buck here, but also , let's the buck here, but also, let's say to the church of england, look, you have got some issues here. you need to address them because undermining the

because it's undermining the christian faith, your congregation, entire congregation, the entire institution of the church. and we're talking at easter now at a time when, you know, instead of celebrating easter , this celebrating easter, this country, half of this country seems to be putting up lights and doing all sorts of other things to show that actually we don't about well, the don't care about it. well, the church of england has some church of england has got some responsibility church of england has got some responsibfailing. that's a think it's failing. that's a matter the archbishop matter for the archbishop and the but but you the synod and so on. but but you know, have that know, so let's have that conversation. don't let the conversation. but don't let the home off with this home office get off with this part by passing the to part by passing the buck on to somebody else. the buck starts with cleverly in home with james cleverly in the home office. and henry, one of our >> yeah. and henry, one of our viewers, has emailed in timothy, a good afternoon to timothy. and he actually he's talking he says, actually he's talking about it being a cultural issue. he says, i don't want a lot of people coming to this country because culturally they are not augned because culturally they are not aligned with many of us who are here. >> that's very true, darren. i agree. and look, you cannot bnng agree. and look, you cannot bring and nowhere in history

have we brought two cultures together without integration and an effort to integrate those two cultures and if there has not been that effort, a successful effort, then you end up with tension, social tension that quite often spills into confrontation, conflict and violence , and because you end up violence, and because you end up with an attempt at what i call a nato called in kosovo and the united nations called in kosovo , united nations called in kosovo, cultural displacement or passive ethnic cleansing. in this case, it's we're talking religious stuff. so it's cultural displacement, not racial displacement, not racial displacement, where you end up dominating certain localities through, having built up a certain degree of, of a community of another culture that then insist on dominating that then insist on dominating that geographical space, which makes it then uncomfortable for people from other cultures, including the indigenous . if you including the indigenous. if you like culture. and yes, people

will argue that there's nothing indigenous about the british culture. but, you know, we've had immigrants come in in had more immigrants come in in the last few decades, couple of decades, probably, than at any time between the norman invasion and 1950s. it's about and the 1950s. so it's about pace of change here. it's about people feeling insecure and it's about the government, the home office again , failing to ensure office again, failing to ensure that people who come in are properly integrated. you know, darren, interesting piece of research. we don't need to get into now perhaps. but is the number of exclusions as from people coming into this country for them to require for the requirement to learn english. so family members, the dependents , family members, the dependents, asylum seekers, asylum seekers and their dependents , it's and their dependents, it's a real problem. >> yeah, it's a real, real problem . all right, henry problem. all right, henry bolton, we're going to have to leave it there, unfortunately. but that's henry bolton, the international security and border control expert. i do have a comment, statement rather,

a comment, a statement rather, by the church of england who have said it is the role of the home office and not the church, to vet asylum seekers and judge the merits of their individual cases. we wrote to the home office and they said had no office and they said they had no evidence to show us in regards to well you're to these claims. well you're with me, darren grimes, on gb news sunday. we've got stacks more coming up on today's show, including my panel has to including what my panel has to say about that issue itself. migrant conversion phenomenon. but first of all, we're going to get headlines with get the news headlines with sofia . sofia. >> thanks, darren. it's 233. i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. your headlines . sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom. your headlines. king charles has made his first significant public appearance since his cancer diagnosis. joined by the queen, he smiled and waved as he left an easter sunday service at saint george's chapelin sunday service at saint george's chapel in windsor, and he went on to greet crowds shaking people's hands. other members of the royal family were also

there, but the prince and princess of wales missed the service as catherine continues her cancer treatment and tens and thousands of people turned out to see pope francis preside over easter mass at the vatican and the delivery of his urbi et orbi to the city and the world. blessing from the balcony of saint peter's basilica . the saint peter's basilica. the pontiff, who has been dealing with health problems, used his address to renew his calls for an immediate ceasefire in gaza, as well as the release of all israeli hostages . and almost 600 israeli hostages. and almost 600 people intercepted people have been intercepted crossing the channel in small boats this weekend. despite deteriorating weather conditions. it brings the total number of migrants who arrived in the uk illegally to more than 5200 this year. that's a third higher than the figure recorded this last year , and a new this time last year, and a new poll suggests the tories are on track for their worst general election result. survation found the party could win fewer than 100 seats, with labour predicted

to sweep to power with a landslide victory of 468 seats. the 15,000 person poll indicated the conservatives would be wiped out in scotland and wales, and hold just 98 seats in england . hold just 98 seats in england. and for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen, or go gb news. alerts . go to gb news. common alerts. >> now it may be easter sunday, but these two are going to go for each other. i can smell it in the air. remember that you can get in touch about all the topics we've been discussing today emailing me on gb views today by emailing me on gb views at or messaging us at gb news. com or messaging us on our socials. we're at gb news. we're going to discuss james cleverlys comments about churches and the ability to allow asylum seekers to actually game the system. all of that and more to come. let me know your thoughts. i'm darren grimes and you're watching gb news

>> 2024 a battleground year. >> 2024 a battleground year. >> the year. the nation decides. >> the year. the nation decides. >> as the parties gear up their campaigns for the next general election. >> who will be left standing when the british people make one of the biggest decisions of their lives ? who will rise and their lives? who will rise and who will fall? >> let's find out together for every moment. >> the lows, the >> the highs, the lows, the twists and turns. >> we'll be with you for every step of this journey in 2024. >> gb news is britain's election . channel. >> welcome back to gb news sunday with me, darren grimes , sunday with me, darren grimes, on your tv, online and on digital radio. before that break there we were discussing the rise in asylum seekers converting to christianity. let's see what my panel make of this. gb news contributor benjamin butterworth and deputy leader of reform uk ben habib,

two. ben's with very different views now . ben habib, how can we views now. ben habib, how can we actually avoid this from happening ? how can we stop happening? how can we stop people gaming the system in this way , abusing the established way, abusing the established church to actually have, you know, sympathetic judges, members of the judiciary with middle class guilt saying, come one, come all. >> i mean, it's the simplest thing on the planet to resolve. you need to determine what religion this individual was when they ostensibly left the country. that was a compromising their human rights. and were they christian then? if they weren't christian, then what is it that motivated the motive that motivated to that motivated them to leave their ? they can't come their country? they can't come to the united kingdom, decide they're christian, and then argue because they're christian. they can no longer go back to the from they the country from where they came. come in came. why did they come in the first is only first place? that is the only adjudicated matter. why did you leave what the leave your country? what was the persecution suffering? leave your country? what was the perscan't)n suffering? leave your country? what was the perscan't develop suffering? leave your country? what was the perscan't develop s excuses’ you can't develop new excuses

for and but having for persecution and but having said that, the church of england, i think , and the england, i think, and the institution of the church is doing damage to doing untold damage to christianity in this country. justin welby has politicised the church . he stood famously, as we church. he stood famously, as we know, i'm not going to digress into a brexit debate, but he stood against brexit. he is firmly on the remain side. we know where his credentials are. he trashes the history of the church by giving in to the narrative that our forefathers were all slave traders, that the church should put £1 billion aside in order to compensate for the slave trade , when actually the slave trade, when actually william wilberforce was an evangelical christian, and without william wilberforce, the slave trade would never have been damaged. and we've heard justin welby say that refugees are welcome to the united kingdom . he's the head of the kingdom. he's the head of the church of england. he should be silent on political issues. he should get on with trying to

convert to convert people genuinely to christianity and keeping their faith succour, faith and giving them succour, not incessantly faith and giving them succour, not politics. incessantly faith and giving them succour, not politics. incethe1tly faith and giving them succour, not politics. incethe last about politics. and the last thing, example, which thing, last example, which absolutely made the hair on the back of my neck. and by the way, absolutely made the hair on the bacinot my neck. and by the way, absolutely made the hair on the bacinot christian, and by the way, absolutely made the hair on the bacinot christian, i'm by the way, i'm not christian, i'm culturally christian, but i'm not the thing not christian. but the thing that the hair on the that really got the hair on the back neck standing up was back of my neck standing up was the trinity college, the dean of trinity college, cambridge, in cambridge, suggesting in a congregation that jesus might have been transgender , you know, have been transgender, you know, the church is doing untold damage to christianity. >> yes, absolutely. i mean , >> yes, absolutely. i mean, benjamin butterworth, at this rate, you'll be joining up a church of england. you could be the next archbishop of canterbury. yeah. >> i, i won't go for that one. look, think the question i look, i think the question i think church england's think the church of england's response , which you out response, which you read out earlier, perfectly earlier, is a perfectly legitimate it legitimate one, which is that it is for the home office and for the to decide who the court system to decide who gets these asylum cases. and i don't think it's fair to try and pass the buck as this government does, on so many issues, onto another party in this case, the

church of england. i think there's clearly been a massive failing in the case of the chemical attacker, because he actually failed the test to illustrate his christianity. so there was reason to believe that he wasn't telling the truth. and he wasn't telling the truth. and he later had a muslim i he later had a muslim burial, i believe. he did. we know believe. and so he did. we know that did not convert. i think that he did not convert. i think the habib says, the idea, as ben habib says, that if you that fundamentally, if you shouldn't the shouldn't be allowed into the country issue when country on another issue when you get here might be wrong because someone could be fleeing persecution and they've been here and they here for a year, and maybe they started as a gay started living life as a gay person. that would person. and then that would obviously cause a problem if they've then illustrated that online, for example, to go back. so can be secondary so there can be secondary reasons. the idea so there can be secondary reas

despair, really, because it doesn't seem like either the labour party or the conservatives are ever going to really get a grip on this. no, they don't care. >> i mean, the conservative party and the labour party don't care. don't see they don't care. they don't see they don't see fundamentally, they don't see fundamentally, they don't see of the see the nation state of the united an important united kingdom as an important concept. that with the concept. we see that with the way it. no, they don't. way we see it. no, they don't. that's obviously just no, it's not about it . not about it. >> you think the people that give their lives to running the country in the country? >> no they don't. that's why they it away to the they wish to hand it away to the european. absolutely. that's why they over they wish to hand over governance an unelected bunch they wish to hand over go bureaucrats an unelected bunch they wish to hand over go bureaucrats in unelected bunch they wish to hand over go bureaucrats in brussels.d bunch of bureaucrats in brussels. what is schengen zone if it is, is the schengen zone if it is, isn't the end of individual nafion isn't the end of individual nation states in europe? and that's where our political class has its head. that's where tony blair has its head. that's where the origins of mass legal migration were founded, in the belief that nation states stand against the global good. and actually, these people were elected by the british people,

and they should stand up for british interests. and we should absolutely enforce our borders stopping illegal migration is easy. we need a border force that imposes force at the border. that's why they're called border force. that's historically no one would have been able to make it across the channel. but now we don't have the political will or courage to exercise our international right to protect our borders. that's how far this nation state that was , the united kingdom is was, the united kingdom is falling. and the fact that labour party won't put union jacks on its leaflets for fear of offending people is absolute testimony to the points i'm making. does the union jack on a leaflet offend you, benjamin? >> no. and of course, that's factually incorrect. a phrase you're keen on today. it's factually say factually incorrect to say labour jacks on. labour won't put union jacks on. it's a big it's well, they've had a big debate labour. people kick debate about labour. people kick off put union off labour. labour has put union jacks people jacks on all of its. so people are apparently that's are upset and apparently that's mps upset. are upset and apparently that's mp mps upset. are upset and apparently that's mp mps ufthe party are. >> mps in the party are. >> mps in the party are. >> first of all don't

>> well first of all we don't know which how many. know which mps or how many. i suspect it's few and suspect it's very few and i suspect it's very few and i suspect from the hard suspect it's very few and i suspywhich from the hard suspect it's very few and i suspywhich is from the hard suspect it's very few and i suspywhich is a from the hard suspect it's very few and i suspywhich is a tiny, the hard suspect it's very few and i suspywhich is a tiny, tiny hard suspect it's very few and i suspywhich is a tiny, tiny part left, which is a tiny, tiny part of party today. so of the labour party today. so i think it's completely ridiculous to that . but i also to suggest that. but i also i think it's deeply unpatriotic to suggest that people who take a different view on working with the european union, on brexit, on global trade orders and global rules based orders that that makes you somehow not proud or defensive of the country you live in. there is nothing patriotic about saying someone with a different view on how britain should integrate with europe means that you don't believe in britain. that is nonsense. >> didn't going to >> i didn't say i'm going to have to go to a break what you said, because you people said, because you said people that in the eu don't that want to be in the eu don't care nations. that want to be in the eu don't care nation tions. that want to be in the eu don't care nation state by >> the nation state by definition, is of subsidiary importance. if you're a member of right? by definition, importance. if you're a member of come'ight? by definition, importance. if you're a member of come back. by definition, we'll come back. >> we'll back. there will >> we'll come back. there will be promise. gb news be more, i promise. gb news contributor benjamin butterworth be more, i promise. gb news contdeputy benjamin butterworth be more, i promise. gb news contdeputy leaderiin butterworth be more, i promise. gb news contdeputy leader of butterworth be more, i promise. gb news contdeputy leader of reform vorth and deputy leader of reform uk ben habib. you're with me darren grimes on sunday. lots grimes on gb news sunday. lots more coming up on today's show, do think? well, we sort

do you think? well, we sort of nearly touched on it there. do you union flag is far you think the union flag is far right ? some labour activists right? some labour activists apparently surprise all apparently do. kale surprise all of that and more to come. you with gb news, britain's news channel

welcome back to gb news sunday with me. darren grimes. on your tv, online and on digital radio. now, have you annoyed the nhs by eating that easter egg all in one go? let me know in the inbox. but now keir starmer is facing discontent from labour party mps over the dominant use of the union flag. clutch your pearls. the horror in actual election campaign material. some labour mps have said that the flag may alienate ethnic minority voters , with ethnic minority voters, with that some associate with the far right . can you believe that it

right. can you believe that it concerns were allegedly raised at the recent meeting of the party's black, asian and minority ethnic group, bame , at minority ethnic group, bame, at westminster. i actually find that label to be pretty racist in and of itself. but this was by london members of the parliamentary labour party . parliamentary labour party. there's also unhappiness around some activists who are reluctant to handle the actual material, saying that old age, old phrase that we hear time and again now, the far right, the bogeyman of the far right, the bogeyman of the far right, let's see what my panel make of this. benjamin butterworth, i want to start with you under jeremy corbyn's leadership, there was a general idea. general acceptance, that the labour party had become deeply unpatriotic, that it had lost the working man because it shunned the flag, shunned our values, perhaps, a whole values, perhaps, and a whole host of other issues, including anti—semitism. does this not prove that your party has not changed one iota? >> well , no, because first of

>> well, no, because first of all, we don't know who these mps are, and i would strongly suspect two things. >> one, that there's very few of them, and two, that they are people who, continue to adore jeremy corbyn and loathe keir starmer. why they're starmer. and that's why they're making these points. you know, what they're saying is that they disagree labour what they're saying is that they disag has labour what they're saying is that they disag has been labour what they're saying is that they disag has been doing labour what they're saying is that they disag has been doing in_abour what they're saying is that they disag has been doing in changing party has been doing in changing its its its image and changing its approach changing approach and changing its attitudes. shows attitudes. so i think this shows not that it hasn't changed, but that it has, because that's why they're frustrated. and i actually have a lot of actually do have a lot of sympathy with the people that point seems to be point out that there seems to be a those a correlation between those types are types of left wingers who are delighted palestinian delighted to fly the palestinian flag, and yet they seem to have a problem with the flag the a problem with the flag of the country. keir country. they live in now. keir starmer have been starmer could not have been further that attitude, both further from that attitude, both on his opinion of the issues in israel and the middle east and the rest of it, and on his attitude to the union and attitude to the union flag. and i it's only right that i think it's only right that someone to the someone that wants to run the country country. country should love the country. >> fair enough. but >> well, yeah, fair enough. but i i would i mean, the flag i would associate sir keir starmer with ben would be the european

ben habib would be the european union's flag. >> absolutely. know, >> absolutely. and i'm you know, i go back to i don't want to go back to a debate on brexit. but if you wish to hand over the governance of your country to a third country, have freedom of movement, which is what came with it, and no borders, movement, which is what came withare and no borders, movement, which is what came withare standingio borders, movement, which is what came withare standing in borders, you are standing in confrontation with the nation state. think they'd state. do you think they'd prefer the palestinian flag on their leaflet? well, you say that there's no evidence of starmer preferring the palestinian flag. i remember on armistice had poppy armistice day he had his poppy on when he addressed the cameras on when he addressed the cameras on the issue of armistice, and then took it off when he was addressing a private muslim gathering, and he was filmed with the poppy having taken with the poppy having been taken off and there is and this is my point about multiculturalism, not working pace of not working and the pace of immigration working. we've immigration not working. we've got to integrate people who come to the united and to the united kingdom and immigration must be at a pace very briefly, allows us to very briefly, which allows us to integrate. are going to be integrate. we are going to be a divided society. >> well, many ethnic minorities, especially black christians, >> well, many ethnic minorities, espeytolly black christians, >> well, many ethnic minorities, espeytolly blymoreiristians, >> well, many ethnic minorities, espeytolly blymore traditional tend to have more traditional small c conservative views than

many white british born people. all right. indeed, they tend to be far more proud of britain than a lot of lot of people born here i i think here are. so i think i think it's pretty mistaken. >> all right. thank very >> all right. thank you very much. panel. that was ben much. to my panel. that was ben habib butterworth. habib and benjamin butterworth. you've me darren you've been watching me darren grimes gb news sunday. thank you've been watching me darren grinvery gb news sunday. thank you've been watching me darren grinvery much\iews sunday. thank you've been watching me darren grinvery much for's sunday. thank you've been watching me darren grinvery much for your1day. thank you've been watching me darren grinvery much for your company1k you've been watching me darren grinvery much for your company .1 you very much for your company. don't go anywhere. nana is up next. all though, we're next. first of all though, we're going a the going to have a look at the weather with greg dewhurst. >> are heating >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello there! welcome to your latest gb news weather. we've had some sunshine across the north and the west, but over the next 24 hours it does turn more unsettled. low pressure dominates the weather yet again. over the next few days we see further spells of rain, heavy showers pushing across the country, some brisk later country, some brisk winds later on week well for the on in the week as well for the evening time, we do have some heavy showers into heavy showers pushing into central areas . we could

central .southern areas. we could see some localised flooding here. metoffice warning in force for the evening time and then overnight. pushes overnight. this rain pushes slowly northwards, further rain pushing areas too, pushing into eastern areas too, with northern ireland and scotland seeing driest scotland seeing the driest weather with some clear spells. but the vast majority us but the vast majority of us temperatures remaining above freezing. mixed start on freezing. so a mixed start on monday, outbreaks of rain across northern england into central parts and wales as well. some of this heavy, times bright this heavy, at times bright skies following across central southern areas. but into the afternoon we'll see some heavy thundery developing, afternoon we'll see some heavy thundery possibleeveloping, afternoon we'll see some heavy thundery possible partsping, afternoon we'll see some heavy thundery possible parts of g, some hail possible parts of northern ireland and scotland will see some drier weather, some sunny spells and here temperatures lifting to around 13 or 14 celsius feeling quite cold under the cloud and rain. temperatures in single figures . temperatures in single figures. for tuesday, we'll see areas of rain across the top and tail of the country. in between we'll see some sunny spells, but some scattered showers also developing and it remains unsettled for the week ahead. further showers and some heavy

spells of rain as well, and temperatures just climbing a little. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers. sponsors of weather on gb news as

i >> -- >> well . >> well. >> well. >> hello. >> hello. >> good afternoon. it's just coming up to 3:00. i'm nana akua, this is gb news on tv, onune akua, this is gb news on tv, online and on digital radio for the next few hours , me and my the next few hours, me and my panel will be taking on some of the big topics. hitting the headlines. this show headlines. right now. this show is . it's mine, is all about opinion. it's mine, it's theirs. and of course it's yours. we'll be debating , yours. we'll be debating, discussing and at times we will disagree. but no one will be cancelled. so joining me in the next hour, broadcaster and journalist danny kelly and also broadcaster and author christine

hamilton . in broadcaster and author christine hamilton. in a few moments time, we'll be going to head to head in the clash with gb news senior political commentator nigel nelson and also former tory aide claire pearsall. well here's what's coming up. king charles has attended the easter service. his first royal appearance since receiving cancer treatment after it was revealed the clapham chemical attacker converted to christianity. i'll also be asking whether the church leaders held leaders should be held accountable for the migrants they does the they convert, then does the union flag put off ethnic minorities ? some labour mps have minorities? some labour mps have reportedly concerned that it could, and the controversial gender clinic, the tavistock centre, finally closes its doors. we'll be discussing that before we get started. let's get your latest news headlines. >> nana. thank you. the top

stories this hour.