lam time, i am out. >> no, owe few people some >> no, i owe a few people some cigarettes for the protection. >> yeah. snout.7 >> yeah. snout.7 >> he's

>> yeah. snout.7 >> guests. ; >> yeah. snout.7 >> guests. msp with a series of guests. msp murdo be them. murdo fraser will be among them. a tweet he sent criticising the scottish government's transgender policy was logged by police as a hate incident . transgender policy was logged by police as a hate incident. but in another hugely significant case, whistleblower julian assange's extradition to the us has been placed on hold for now. we're going to be talking about that with julian assange's brother , the film producer brother, the film producer gabriel shipton, and of course, myself and my fantastic panel will be answering questions from our audience . and our lovely studio audience. and my comedian guests this evening are wetton and bruce are cressida wetton and bruce devlin. welcome to the show. >> both of you. hello. >> both of you. hello. >> i hope you're in a chirpy

mood. bruce >> i'm always in a chirpy mood. >> i'm always in a chirpy mood. >> sometimes you can be quite brusque, do you think? >> well , every now brusque, do you think? >> well, every now and then, you know, not criticism. no. know, it's not a criticism. no. it we'd it was funny because we'd gone out did, out after the last one. we did, and from the audience and a woman from the audience came and she went, oh, came with us and she went, oh, i'm glad i spoke you i'm so glad i spoke to you because really me. because you really scare me. >> we you >> wow. oh, there we go. you inspire bruce. don't >> wow. oh, there we go. you inspir how bruce. don't >> wow. oh, there we go. you inspir how you uce. don't >> wow. oh, there we go. you inspir how you do. don't >> wow. oh, there we go. you inspirhow you do. but on't >> wow. oh, there we go. you inspirhow you do. but you do know how you do it, but you do it. so it's nice that you guys are going out audience are going out with audience members after the show. >> mean, i don't >> it is? yeah. i mean, i don't remember it. no remember all of it. no >> were doing you've >> well, you were doing you've missed the home. missed a stop on the train home. >> oh, that right ? >> oh, is that right? >> oh, is that right? >> that. >> that. >> i can't keep up >> look, i can't keep up with him, otherwise you him, otherwise i'd be fine. you were doing the aftershocks. >> sell that? no. >> do they still sell that? no. that am, doesn't that shows how old i am, doesn't it? i it? okay anyway, let's get. i definitely drink that definitely didn't drink that stuff. questions definitely didn't drink that stuff. audience. questions definitely didn't drink that stuff. audience. qourtions definitely didn't drink that stuff. audience. qour first from the audience. so our first question from jill. hi, question comes from jill. hi, jill . jill. >> hello there, my question actually to your actually relates to your introduction. april fool's day sees the intro of the snp legislation on hate crime , and legislation on hate crime, and people like jk rowling have been advised to delete their tweets for fear of what might happen, so i'm just wondering if,

for fear of what might happen, so i'm just wondering if , as so i'm just wondering if, as comedians, what do you think the implications of this are for comedy? >> it's interesting you mentioned that, jo, because there was a lawyer online specifically wrote to jk rowling saying, delete your saying, you better delete your tweets because come april the 1st, you'll be breaking the law. ist, you'll be breaking the law. do you think, jill, that she will do that, that she'll go along that? what you along with that? and what do you think? >> definitely not. i looked back through her twitter stream and shewell, that's it, it? >> well, that's it, isn't it? people are going to have to, i think, take a bit a stand on think, take a bit of a stand on this and it's a tricky one this one. and it's a tricky one because never advise because i would never advise people but people to break the law. but free sacrosanct. free speech is too sacrosanct. i think, society . think, for a liberal society. what do you make of this? do you think be in think comedy is going to be in trouble ? trouble? >> i emil wu- wu— >> well, i mean, it could be, couldn't that's the point. couldn't it? that's the point. we're definitely safe, can't be sure if you're breaking the or that's a the law or not, that's not a good place start. although

read the an act and they read out the lines, it makes lines, you said, yeah, it makes it sound awful because they have no no comic ability, no timing, no comic ability, and it's not my or any of that. >> well, the context is. yeah, absolutely . but i >> well, the context is. yeah, absolutely. but i just >> well, the context is. yeah, absolutely . but i just do absolutely. but i just think, do the really have more the police really not have more to do? >> they have loads to do. they have loads to mean, but have loads to do. i mean, but it's interesting because later in the show i'm going be in the show i'm going to be speaking to dankula

sneakmn to count dankula. marcus , is scottish hate crime law is about the the victim. scottish hate crime law is about the you the victim. scottish hate crime law is about the you perceive the victim. scottish hate crime law is about the you perceive that/ictim. scottish hate crime law is about the you perceive that i'm m. scottish hate crime law is about the you perceive that i'm being hateful? >> well, i perceive you know, it's fact and it's based on fact and knowledge. hateful and knowledge. you are hateful and despise you, am i joke? no, she's very nice. but no, i really think it is open for abuse because you can take things the wrong way. yeah. and like as i said before, when i'm down the waitrose or in the middle because middle of lidl because i can keep real, i'm, it's like, keep it real, i'm, it's like, you if i to someone, you know, if i say to someone, oh, filthy goat pelt oh, get that filthy goat pelt away me because i don't away from me because i don't like wearing. what? like what they're wearing. what? suddenly i'm in barrel doing suddenly i'm in the barrel doing a 12 year stretch. >> i mean, is quite >> i mean, that is quite offensive, to be fair, bruce, but also from them .

but it's also stolen from them. >> i can't where >> i can't remember where i think abfab. >> well, let's get another question now. this is from abdi abdi. hello >> hi, just a question. are there pro—palestine marches ? there pro—palestine marches? just a front for hate? >> yeah. hate is a bit of a theme tonight, abdi. i mean, did you see some of the marches yesterday? some of the footage? yes. what you make of that? yes. what did you make of that? >> have most of my >> well, i have said most of my friends those marches, so friends go to those marches, so i answer is so i think the answer is yes. so you're happy with them? >> hateful?

>> you think they're hateful? luff—w err—where —— >> you think they're hateful? luff—w err—where he ~ —— — ~ >> you think they're hateful? luff—w err—where he was——— — ~ >> you think they're hateful? luff—w err—where he was he ~ >> you think they're hateful? luff—w err—where he was he was hussein, where he was he was polling sort a polling people, sort of doing a survey saying, oh, you survey saying, oh, do you support houthi on support the houthi rebels on this? king's this? i think it was king's college london. and lots of college in london. and lots of these young people these very young people were saying, yeah. and he kind of said, you know about said, oh, do you know about them, . kind of i'm them, yeah. kind of and i'm thinking, people in thinking, how many people in those don't actually those protests don't actually know the detail? >> that good i mean, >> that is a good point. i mean, because seen interviews because we've seen interviews where people have been asked about from the about their chanting from the river and people have river to the sea and people have said and sea, said which river and which sea, and know . and they don't know. >> but if the police stepped in and the first person and arrested the first person who's , yeah, i love who's saying, yeah, i love hamas, that's that begins the conversation, and conversation, doesn't it? and the can't well, they the police can't just well, they have they can't just have been, but they can't just let things go. you've got let these things go. you've got to with those people. >> but i say, i mean, >> but like i say, i mean, i kind think the best way to kind of think the best way to approach is approach this is counter—protest. like approach this is coumot—protest. like approach this is coumot comfortable like approach this is coumot comfortable with.ike approach this is coumot comfortable with people approach this is coum(arrested,:able with people approach this is coum(arrested, even with people approach this is coum(arrested, even ifth people approach this is coum(arrested, even if they're le being arrested, even if they're saying . think saying horrible things. i think people standing people should be standing up and saying, for just saying, that's that's for just instance, there was a trans

rights london recently rights rally in london recently where a trans activist stood up and people to punch and called for people to punch women who believe biological women who believe in biological sex. terf, punch sex. if you see a terf, punch them in the effing face, and everyone cheered. and that made me think, is actually, that means it's become normalised within movement , right? within that movement, right? it's not so much that there's a couple bad apples. everyone's it's not so much that there's a couple itiad apples. everyone's it's not so much that there's a couple it . d apples. everyone's it's not so much that there's a couple it . that)les. everyone's it's not so much that there's a couple it . that worrieseryone's it's not so much that there's a couple it. that worries me.|e's cheering it. that worries me. that really worries you that really worries me. you know, kind of know, i think that you kind of have a bit of have to take a bit of responsibility for what's going on own movement. anyway, responsibility for what's going on get own movement. anyway, responsibility for what's going on get a own movement. anyway, responsibility for what's going on get a question ement. anyway, responsibility for what's going on get a question emerfrom yway, let's get a question now from luke. luke luke. where is luke high? >> should displaying >> should pubs be displaying nazi question , well, they >> what a question, well, they don't at my local, i can tell you that, but this is a pub called the hole in the wall pub. you. not the kind you're yes. not the kind you're thinking of, bruce, but there's a pub in cornwall, and it was an interesting story. i saw it this week about . they've basically week about. they've basically they've got this old memorabilia. this pub has won they've got this old menand)ilia. this pub has won they've got this old menand lots this pub has won they've got this old menand lots of|is pub has won they've got this old men and lots of awards 1as won they've got this old menand lots of awards .as won they've got this old menand lots of awards . bestn lots and lots of awards. best pub in cornwall. i don't know if that's accolade haven't that's an accolade i haven't been to cornwall, but they have. i'm it's a lovely and

i'm sure. it's a lovely pub and because public order bill crime and public order bill scotland into effect scotland is coming into effect north border. and the north of the border. and the proposed well, proposed new law. well, the actual new law going to be actual new law is going to be making hatred making stirring up hatred against groups against certain groups a criminal offence, the criminal offence, even if the person making the remarks hadn't intended to do so or made them intended to do so or made them in private and critics are saying that bill could saying that the bill could lead to police to a slew of police investigations . but first investigations. but first minister yousaf says minister humza yousaf says people punished if they people will be punished if they will be punished if they make vexatious . so we're vexatious complaints. so we're going to discuss this new bill in a series interviews, and in a series of interviews, and we're start by we're going to start by discussing laws discussing how the new laws could freedom. could affect religious freedom. and reason, have and for that reason, i have here, mcclatchey millar, here, lois mcclatchey millar, welcome to the show, lois. >> welcome back to the show. >> welcome back to the show. >> obviously, you've been on the show a few times, and obviously we've talked about this before, but it's getting pressing but it's getting very pressing now hate crime law. now with the new hate crime law. we was coming. what we knew it was coming. but what do yousaf now do you make of humza yousaf now coming out and saying, look, people going make people are going to make complaints, will punish people are going to make complaithe will punish people are going to make complaithe complaints punish them if the complaints are vexatious.

them if the complaints are vexatiousfirstly, april >> well, firstly, happy april fool's from the scottish fool's day from the scottish government to us all and kind of reinforce the point about the clarity of the language. how will when will you now define when someone's with someone's being vexatious with their theme their complaints? the theme throughout hate speech laws has been that with a lack of clarity, the government get to decide what speech is legal and what speech isn't, and now which complaints are legal and which complaints are legal and which complaints aren't. confusingly. and with and that's the problem with these . we're not clear what these laws. we're not clear what we can say and what we can't have chilling effect free speech. >> well, aren't saying >> well, aren't they also saying that complain that anyone can complain anonymously? that anyone can complain anortheyusly? that anyone can complain anorthey even possibly will they even possibly investigate nature of the investigate the nature of the complaint? also, they're not referring to these people as complainants. calling complainants. they're calling them victims, which presupposes that there is something to investigate in the first place. all of this stuff just feels as though are borrowing from though they are borrowing from some totalitarian some kind of totalitarian playbook , right? playbook, right? >> hate can often be in >> well, hate can often be in the the beholder. and the eye of the beholder. and i think about this on think you wrote about this on your substack, andrew, that your own substack, andrew, that hate human hate is a condition of the human heart, what heart, and no matter what legislation yousaf or legislation humza yousaf or justin trudeau or any of these

guys through, they will guys puts through, they will never be able to stop never actually be able to stop the human heart emotion of hate. >> i mean, i'm not >> well, that's i mean, i'm not saying i support hate. i don't like but it's the like it, but it's a it's the reality. it's of the human reality. it's part of the human condition. know, great condition. you know, great playwrights condition. you know, great playwri about for written about this for centuries. though centuries. it's not as though you can just eradicate it with a few laws. >> indeed. and censorship has never effectively never been able to effectively control . no. control bad speech. no. throughout history we've seen this fail time and time again. but what this will do is instead of only targeting speech of only targeting the speech that somebody doesn't like, it's going to be whatever the going to be whatever speech the scottish deems scottish government deems on that be considered that day to be considered hateful. makes it very hateful. that makes it very difficult for anyone who has a belief that falls belief or a view that falls outside mainstream, falls outside the mainstream, falls outside the dominant religion, if of the day. you if you like, of the day. you know, it's interesting, and i think it was that last think it was 1697 that the last man 34 year olds have said

18 to 34 year olds have said they would ban a religious text, such as the bible, if it was found have hate it . found to have hate speech in it. and i think really shows and i think that really shows a religious know. right i think religious i know. right i think that shows a religious that really shows a religious illiteracy our generation, of illiteracy of our generation, of our institutions by saying, oh, whatever this faith is, i presume that it's hateful and therefore it should be banned and it hasn't engaged with the reality of those conversations because we're being censored, you know, fascinating and chilling you know, fascinating and chi|lois mcclatchey miller, >> lois mcclatchey miller, thank you for me you so much forjoining me so much. you so much forjoining me so mu thank you . >> thank you. >> thank you. >> so next up on free

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me . andrew doyle. nation with me. andrew doyle. we've just been talking about some of the reasons to be suspicious of the new hate crime laws, which will be introduced in but it'd in scotland this week. but it'd be wrong say that that the be wrong to say that that the bill also enjoy bill does not also enjoy widespread support with its proponents, making that widespread support with its pr0|laws|ts, making that widespread support with its pr0|laws give|aking that widespread support with its pr0|laws give certain that widespread support with its pr0|laws give certain groups that the laws give certain groups some much needed protection from abuse. some much needed protection from abuse . so let's talk now to the abuse. so let's talk now to the former councillor, austin former snp councillor, austin shendan. former snp councillor, austin sheridan . austin, thank you ever sheridan. austin, thank you ever so much forjoining on free so much forjoining me on free speech can i just speech nation. can i just begin by asking why it you by asking you, why is it you feel that this new hate crime law necessary ? law is necessary? >> i feel that it's necessary because of maybe some of the things that we've actually seen, not scotland, but not just here in scotland, but across entirety of the uk. across the entirety of the uk. say, for example, look at what's happening in the middle east and

we have both muslims, we have both people , for example, both jewish people, for example, who that they have who feel that they have been targeted , you know, through targeted, you know, through their religion. and mean, their religion. and i mean, at this moment in time, i feel like current legislation since 1986, we've legislation that we've had legislation that protects people against racism, as in people's race and everybody in the uk and benefits from that. and this would simply extend, that kind of legislation to cover things like religious, and background . and it could and background. and it could also cover things like people's sexuality. and so on, because, you know, no one has the right to be abusive. absolutely have the right to free speech. but we don't have the we don't have the right to free hatred and to and to discriminate against people. >> i ask about that, >> can i ask you about that, austin? you specifically austin? because you specifically mentioned to the legislation relating to the protected characteristics, which of in the of course are enshrined in the equality 2010. so just equality act 2010. so i'm just cunous equality act 2010. so i'm just curious what kind of crimes would be covered by this new law that aren't already covered by existing law ? existing law? >> so, for example, it could be,

you know, if there's someone outside an abortion centre who's holding up placards , which has holding up placards, which has been very distressing, you know, towards women . now there's towards women. now there's separate legislation going through the scottish parliament, for safe access zones. but some of the things that have been said on those placards have been deemed deeply offensive, have been towards been seen as hateful towards people, women that are people, towards women that are trying , at trying to access services, at the moment and the things that are written on those , on those are written on those, on those placards aren't covered, and this new legislation would then review what has been said , and review what has been said, and then there would be a decision on whether that would that that would constitute as a hate crime, circumstances would would constitute as a hate cri|protests circumstances would would constitute as a hate cri|protests , circumstances would would constitute as a hate cri|protests , for umstances would would constitute as a hate cri|protests , for example,; would be protests, for example, i attended one at the sandyford centre , in glasgow, which is centre, in glasgow, which is a sexual health centre, and it was to do with where trans rights and it was to do with people being able to access transition services and through sandyford and there was people there

holding up extremely offensive towards trans people. again and the current legislation doesn't cover those, however , can i cover those, however, can i explore that a little more? >> it's about making sure >> so it's about making sure that specific sorry, just that a specific also sorry, just to of to be clear, what sort of messages are you talking about? >> because we all to >> because we all need to understand it you mean understand what it is. you mean so signs at the so you saw some signs at the protest. give me an protest. can you give me an example something that was example of something that was said on a placard think said on a placard that you think would covered law? would be covered by this law? >> give an >> well, i'll give you an example that i example of something that i watched from one of your shows. i was watching darren grimes and he showed a video, of a protester of , of, of a protester protester of, of, of a protester and how he can put his supporters to march, which is a terrorist organisation, and actual fact. darren grimes called for these kind of protests to be banned based on that one view. i that one man's view. now, i don't believe protest don't believe that protest should be banned in the forum because in freedom because i believe in freedom of speech. for people that, speech. however for people that, you that are showing those you know, that are showing those kind things, know, kind of things, you know, regardless, you regardless, i agree with you then kind of then then this kind of legislation could cover. >> to be clear, >> i just want to be clear, though, because i agree you though, because i agree with you

that shouldn't be banned. >> but i wanted be absolutely >> but i wanted to be absolutely specific. saw specific. you said you saw a sign the sandyford clinic at sign at the sandyford clinic at a that that would a protest that would that would be covered

judiciary, the snp, to make a sensible declaration about where that line is drawn ? that line is drawn? >> yeah, well, the snp would never make that decision on its own because because they the judicial separate, judicial system is separate, you know, political know, from the political system. so that would be a matter for the police and for the courts. and i say in terms of and as i say in terms of guidance, i am aukus sources in scotland . and, you know, obe scotland. and, you know, obe trained in what the new and what the new law means. and what

could be deemed offensive in our faith and police service and faith and our police service and our prosecution service. our and our prosecution service. and are and for example, if there are examples and for example, if there are exeablezs and for example, if there are exeable to take that forward. be able to take that forward. and always and that should always be without interference, without political interference, because to because it is up to them to implement the law. and for those judgements passed, it's judgements to be passed, it's for not politicians to look at individual is broken individual cases. it is broken the law. and who hasn't broken the law. and who hasn't broken the law? >> i suppose concern is later >> i suppose my concern is later we're going to be talking to someone who was prosecuted in a scottish court for posting something that was something online that was grossly offensive. well, it wasn't grossly offensive to me because joke, but it because it was a joke, but it was grossly offensive to that particular does particular judge. does the subjectivity of the notion of offence not concern you at all when it's on the statute books? >> well, mean, so i mean , i've >> well, i mean, so i mean, i've spoken to people have concerns regarding things like that. for example, it might have been a joke yourself , for other joke to yourself, but for other people deemed people it may have been deemed offensive , so but just because offensive, so but just because something is happening between two people and a private conversation of other people that can impacted by it, then that can be impacted by it, then of you know, is of course, you know, that is something that the law would

have to take into consideration. and but there's other and so but there's other examples. i mean, even with current legislation, say, for example , if you were your example, if you were in your home as i do, i live in flats and you heard, you know, potential domestic abuse happen and i would want the police. and even that person had even if that person had been assaulted, and said, even if that person had been assijlted, and said, even if that person had been assi don't and said, even if that person had been assi don't want and said, even if that person had been assi don't want to and said, even if that person had been assi don't want to pressi said, oh, i don't want to press charges . well, the police would charges. well, the police would then say actual fact, you then say no, in actual fact, you have assaulted. is have been assaulted. there is a case of domestic abuse. i case of domestic abuse. and i have crime have reported that as a crime and even had nothing and even though i had nothing directly , ocean, for directly to do, ocean, for example, you know, if someone, you , has been hateful you know, has been hateful towards someone else and somebody else, you know, it feels impacted by it or feels it, that that person it, that that that that person has been unfairly and has been unfairly treated. and of people have of course, you know, people have the right to report that to the police, as i say, and for the police, as i say, and for the police to take that forward, once that once the police take that forward and the prosecution forward and once the prosecution service look at that, is then up to decide whether to them to decide whether that goes court or not. goes to court or not. >> well, austin sheridan, it's very people on very difficult to get people on this do take your very difficult to get people on this so do take your very difficult to get people on this so i do take your very difficult to get people on this so i really, do take your very difficult to get people on this so i really, genuinelye your view. so i really, genuinely appreciate coming talk

appreciate you coming on to talk about former snp about it. that's former snp councillor sheridan. councillor austin sheridan. thank much . very thank you very much. very quickly, a response from you, lois . lois. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> well, it's striking to me that when austin was pulling out examples, he was pulling out what he would deemed to be what he would have deemed to be offensive. for example, outside the outside the sandyford clinic outside an abortion that abortion facility. i reckon that if somebody had said no child has been born in the wrong has ever been born in the wrong body , but austin and may have body, but austin and i may have interpreted differently, body, but austin and i may have inteithat'si differently, body, but austin and i may have inteithat's the differently, body, but austin and i may have inteithat's the cruxferently, body, but austin and i may have inteithat's the crux ofently, body, but austin and i may have inteithat's the crux of this, body, but austin and i may have inteithat's the crux of this law. and that's the crux of this law. thatis and that's the crux of this law. that is the problem we need to have clear definitions if we're going speech, and going to ban any speech, and that achieved , and that cannot be achieved, and therefore we must have free speech everybody. okay. e but it's fascinating stuff. and next nation we're next on free speech nation we're going to be talking

next on free speech nation we're going ll, be talking next on free speech nation we're going ll, unbeknown next on free speech nation we're going ti, unbeknown to me, then activist, unbeknown to me, then reported that to the police, as a hate crime. now i knew nothing

about that at the time that the police recorded it as a non—crime hate incident. the only reason i found out about it was that the complainer then reported me to the ethical standards commissioner, who is the individual who oversees the conduct of parliamentarians

the individual who oversees the conduin of parliamentarians the individual who oversees the conduin a parliamentarians the individual who oversees the conduin a list. iamentarians the individual who oversees the conduin a list. isn'tntarians the individual who oversees the conduin a list. isn't thisans these in a list. isn't this going to get whole lot worse , going to get a whole lot worse, though, after tomorrow, after april when , these are april the 1st, when, these are going to be recorded with greater aggression. i mean,

haven't the police said they've pledged every pledged to investigate every single complaint? >> yes. this is the real concern about the new act that comes into play in midnight tonight, because police have said because the police have said they will investigate every single complaint that they receive. they are likely to be deluged complaints against deluged with complaints against people in public life already on social media. there are there are activists, who are who are making a call for complaints to be made to the police. you can see people who are prominent in pubuc see people who are prominent in public with gender critical public life with gender critical views, as jk rowling, for views, such as jk rowling, for example, hundreds example, generating hundreds or potentially thousands of complaints. the police have said that they will investigate every one, and if they're going to record every single one as a non—crime hate incident, that's going to not only take up a huge amount of police time, but if they're currently operating an unlawful policy that's going to mean they're going to fall foul of the law and be open to potential claims from a huge variety of people. >> you put variety of people. » you >> so apparently you were put on the vulnerable persons the interim vulnerable persons database, or at least the

complainant was on the basis of your tweet about the cat. apparently there's over 850,000 people on that database. there's 1 in 6 of the scottish population. humza yousaf is now saying that i make” " investigated if they make vexatious complaints. you've

vexatious complaints. so you've well, it is disturbing but >> well, it is disturbing, but bearin >> well, it is disturbing, but bear in mind my tweet dates back to november. this is before the new hate crime act comes into force . so it was being dealt force. so it was being dealt with under the pre—existing policy of police scotland, where everything that is reported to

them is recorded as a non—crime hate incident. if it doesn't meet the threshold of criminality and that decision is based entirely on the perception of the complainer. so if any complainer says i regard this as offensive and hateful, police scotland under current policy will record that as a hate incident . now what's interesting incident. now what's interesting about this is following the harry miller case in the court of appeal. i think two years ago, three years ago, the college of policing in england had to change their policy to comply with law they no comply with the law so they no longer record non—crime hate incidents in that way , for incidents in that way, for reasons best known to themselves, police scotland didn't take the same action.

for cancer . for cancer. in his treatment for cancer. in his easter message , the prime easter message, the prime minister paid tribute to the work of churches and christian communities across the country. >> happy easter everyone i this >> happy easter everyone! this weekend, as people come together to celebrate and reflect on the message of the heart of the easter festival, i want to pay tribute to the incredible work of christians in this country the churches, charities, volunteers and fundraisers who live the christian values of compassion, charity and self—sacrifice, supporting those in need and demonstrating what it means to love thy neighbour. >> thousands of people turned out to see pope francis preside over easter mass at the vatican. the pontiff delivered delivered his urbi et orbi blessing from the balcony of saint peter's basilica. pope francis, who's been dealing with health problems in recent weeks, used his address to renew his call for an immediate ceasefire in gaza along with the release of

all israeli hostages . meanwhile, all israeli hostages. meanwhile, israel's prime minister says more than 200 gunmen have been killed by forces killed by his country's forces at a hospital in northern gaza. another hospital tents on the

airstrike. several tents on the conservative. so yeah, conservative. so yeah, conservative probably conservative people probably won't vote for them. >> isn't that it's not rocket science, is it? you know, if you're conservative party,

you're the conservative party, but like labour being but it's a bit like labour being so insufferably class. so insufferably middle class. they're labour. they're called labour. so it's supposed working supposed to be about working class people. >> is that keir >> the difference is that keir doesn't a reform doesn't have a reform type situation , does worry situation, does he, to worry about moment. that's about at the moment. no that's true. clear run to the true. nice. clear run to the finish. whereas no finish. whereas rishi no no i mean what what can they do at this point. >> should they just give it up. >> should they just give it up. >> yeah i think they should just be quiet. yeah. be quiet . just be quiet. yeah. be quiet. just admit move away. admit defeat and move away. >> there isn't >> yeah. because there isn't really anything they could do to turn it around at this point, i don't you maybe, don't think. do you think maybe, bruce, it's because there's a kind fatigue we've kind of general fatigue we've had too long and now had them in for too long and now we a change, if we just want a change, even if that labour. we just want a change, even if tha yeah.bour. we just want a change, even if tha yeah. no,. we just want a change, even if tha yeah. no, i think people are >> yeah. no, i think people are tired and i go back to tired of them. and i go back to i mean, i know you like liz, but you know, she is responsible for a few wee financial problems for a few wee financial problems for a lot of people. and i think that's pretty much been the straw that has broken the camel's they camel's back. but yeah, they have in. and what if they have been in. and what if they actually done? >> what about in >> but then what about in scotland? people scotland? because aren't people bored people very bored >> some people are very bored of the including snp . the snp, including the snp. >> yeah, that's what i think.

>> yeah, that's what i think. >> not allowed to >> they're just not allowed to say it. >> right, let's move on to >> all right, let's move on to another question. now who's our next questioner? rob is it rob? hi, hi. hello. next questioner? rob is it rob? hi, hello,i. hello. next questioner? rob is it rob? hi, hello, andrew, does peter pan >> hello, andrew, does peter pan contain examples of white supremacy ?

joking. it 77 77 joking. it asks for their not joking. it asks for their current sex, and it also asks for romantic orientation . and for romantic orientation. and one of the options is grey romantic abrosexual , is another romantic abrosexual, is another one, isn't it? abrosexual. when you're attracted to someone because of their, i don't know, their shoe size or something. actually, no. it says no. >> there's people >> it changes. there's people who up yes, who are always up for it. yes, there's people who are up for it occasionally. and there's occasionally. and then there's abrosexual, all abrosexual, which i think is all of humanity. we all have good days days. days and bad days. >> what about >> and then what about stephanie's grey romantic? >> oh, that's. are they're >> oh, that's. are they they're not often not very often people. >> rarely. >> they're rarely. >> they're rarely. >> rarely want to >> yeah. rarely do they want to engagein >> yeah. rarely do they want to engage in any kind of sexual activity. that's just most engage in any kind of sexual activity. people, at's just most engage in any kind of sexual activity. people, isn't ust most engage in any kind of sexual activity. people, isn't it? most married people, isn't it? >> are they >> yes. yeah. why are they asking this? is asking people about this? why is the nhs asking you? i don't think it's the nhs. >> i think because it's somewhere in the article it says the nhs didn't approve of this. so it just leaves you thinking, well who did then. >> here's the thing. >> well look, here's the thing. >> well look, here's the thing. >> know, for years gay >> you know, for many years gay people discriminated >> you know, for many years gay people the iscriminated >> you know, for many years gay people the workplace.! you mainstream commentators, you know, casually

know, just people casually homophobic. kind

know, just people casually homopthat:. kind 7— — know, just people casually homopthat they're kind 7— — know, just people casually homopthat they're going 7— — know, just people casually homopthat they're going be : . scared that they're going to be seen homophobic. but seen as being homophobic. but i don't you would don't understand why you would put any kind put the animal in any kind of bother. >> know any gay people >> i don't know any gay people who this. who asked for this. >> know any people. >> i don't know any gay people. >> i don't know any gay people. >> there in hemel >> i do know two there in hemel hempstead. >> i do know two there in hemel hempstthat's different . >> oh, that's different. >> oh, that's different. >> yeah, but they've got very little going on in their lives, you that little going on in their lives, you of that little going on in their lives, you of attention. that little going on in their lives, you of attention. yeah. that little going on in their lives, you of attention. yeah. butat little going on in their lives, you of attention. yeah. but you kind of attention. yeah. but you know. weird. no. gay know. but it's weird. no. gay people i know have said, oh, you know we have we've know what we won't have we've got got got equal marriage. we've got age of consent, equality. we've got visiting rights in hospitals. what we need now is road crossings. hospitals. what we need now is road criabout;. hospitals. what we need now is road criabout awareness, isn't >> it's about awareness, isn't it, in case you forget, it, andrew? in case you forget, for seconds that are for 17 seconds that there are gay people. >> you kidding >> are you kidding me? >> yeah. >> em- em.- >> we don't shut up about it. it's boring. it's so boring. >> bonkers. how in the >> bonkers. i love how in the article times it said >> bonkers. i love how in the arinoe times it said >> bonkers. i love how in the arino extra times it said >> bonkers. i love how in the arino extra cost. imes it said >> bonkers. i love how in the art no extra cost. they've;aid >> bonkers. i love how in the art no extra cost. they've got at no extra cost. they've got somebody to pay for this. so desperate police desperate to tell us the police aren't money rafe. aren't spending money on rafe. >> they've already spent >> no, but they've already spent loads painting loads of money on painting the damn and, you know, it's damn things. and, you know, it's actually do actually really expensive to do this. for this. it's not just bad for horses, by way. guide dogs horses, by the way. guide dogs really it. and really can't stand it. and it's also bad people also really bad for people who suffer disability suffer from disability issues

with autism , it's just with sight and autism, it's just an and an absolute disaster. and they're with this they're just persist with this stuff because they you know what it is. it's patronising. it's like people , we need to like you gay people, we need to look you make you feel look after you and make you feel secure and we'll secure and safe, and we'll do this. like one wants this. and it's like no one wants it. then are we on the >> but then why are we on the ground? people walking over >> why are people walking over us? exactly. us? yeah, exactly. >> homophobic hate crime. >> treating us like >> yeah. treating us like absolute >> yeah. treating us like absyeah. absolutely. >> yeah. yeah, absolutely. >> yeah. yeah, absolutely. >> yousaf >> yeah. yeah, absolutely. >> sort yousaf >> yeah. yeah, absolutely. >> sort this yousaf >> yeah. yeah, absolutely. >> sort this out. yousaf and sort this out. >> i think i don't think he's that bothered about it. no. probably not homos. no. >> he not? no. okay, well, on >> is he not? no. okay, well, on that note, next up on free speech nation, film producer gabriel shipton is going to be here to discuss his brother, juuan here to discuss his brother, julian assange, and his attempt to avoid extradition to the usa. it's going to be very exciting. don't go anywhere

it's going to be very exciting. don't weeksiwhere it's going to be very exciting. don't weeks to |ere it's going to be very exciting. don't weeks to provide the uk three weeks to provide the uk court with the assurances they seek. to discuss this seek. so here to discuss this hugely significant free speech case, i'm joined by julian assange's brother, the film producer gabriel shipton, gabriel, be by gabriel, you must be thrilled by this reprieve. at least a temporary reprieve at the moment. what do you make of some of the critics of julian assange, your brother, who assange, of your brother, who say, well, did put people's say, well, he did put people's lives and therefore he lives at risk and therefore he needs to face justice? >> well, we asked them for the proof where is the proof that he put lives at risk? i think, dunng put lives at risk? i think, during the leakers trial, chelsea manning, during the leakers trial, chelsea manning , there was a chelsea manning, there was a general who was hired by the obama administration to actually try and find anybody who was

harmed by these leaks. and they admitted under that they admitted under oath that they couldn't find any anybody who'd been harmed, or came to harm because of chelsea manning's leaks and because of what had been published similarly, during the extradition hearing, the prosecution had to admit exactly the same ” state

he went into the state department and eventually when juuan department and eventually when julian was taken from the ecuadorian embassy in 2019 and charged with this unprecedented ,

charged with this unprecedented, espionage act prosecution. i mean, what you're seeing here is the us, using its secrecy laws to reach into the united kingdom and grab people that they don't like. what what what's been published . i think it's really, published. i think it's really, really an attack on the sovereignty of the united kingdom, an attack on free speech and journalists in the united kingdom. >> i've been very surprised, actually, at the lack of coverage story generally coverage of this story generally in mainstream media. are you in the mainstream media. are you surprised that free speech campaigners rallying campaigners aren't rallying behind this, because you would have thought that even the us government would quite government would be quite grateful elements within grateful when elements within their intelligence services or military services are being exposed for doing things that are wrong, so that improvements can be made. >> well, that's how western democracies are supposed to work, but, you know, we see more and more these institutions trying to cover up their wrongdoing , their own crimes, wrongdoing, their own crimes, and that's become pretty

prevalent these days. but i think we have seen quite a bit of support from the uk press, you know, slowly , slowly, you know, slowly, slowly, they've been coming around to this idea that this could actually affect them. it could affect, you know, what they want to publish. if they want to pubush to publish. if they want to publish national security journalism , particularly with journalism, particularly with one of, their closest allies in the united states, we have seen in australia, we've seen the australian government

in australia, we've seen the australjust,)vernment in australia, we've seen the australjust, you1ment in australia, we've seen the australjust, you know, a they're just, you know, a political note from the from the us, political note from the from the us, doj to the political note from the from the us, doj to the uk. it's not actually , able to be enforced actually, able to be enforced once julian is on us soil, but it would be very interesting if, us, you know, first amendment free speech laws were actually able to be applied to everyone in the uk. i can't see the us making that sort of assurance. >> do you feel as a family member, this is your brother that we're talking about? do you feel relief that the feel a sense of relief that the british is seeking british government is seeking these , or the these assurances, or the judiciary, rather, is seeking these that at least these assurances that at least they go for death they can't go for the death penalty case? i mean, penalty in this case? i mean, this must be a relief for this this must be a relief for you family . you and your family. >> yeah, it's certainly is. but we have mixed feelings about this, this judgement. there are points that the uk judges refuse

to allow, in this appeal . and to allow, in this appeal. and those points we believed were very significant , those were very significant, those were regarding the plots. by the then pompeo cia plots to kidnap julian, from the ecuadorian embassy that is

scottish hate crime law that is coming in on april the april coming in on april the 1st april fools talk now to fools day. so let's talk now to someone who has actually been prosecuted for hate crime in the past. comedian and youtuber marcus meechan, who goes under

the name count dankula, was convicted of a hate crime after posting a video of a dog he taught to perform a nazi salute for a joke. there's the dog buddha , and we and marcus joins buddha, and we and marcus joins me now. marcus you were, found guilty in a court of law. you were fined £800. but it was a joke, wasn't it? >> yeah, it was 100% a joke like that. like that was that. like anyone that was watching the video would be able to tell that like that was clearly the intention. i even gave context at the start gave the context at the start of the video explaining why i did what i did. but you know that didn't really help me much in court. >> and can you tell us what happened? when did you first hear and when did hear about this, and when did the up? well, i was the police turn up? well, i was in iceland at the time when the video started blowing up, so i really figure

apparently a judges can't figure that part out. >> the snp is saying and >> but but the snp is saying and the police are saying they're >> but but the snp is saying and the going are saying they're >> but but the snp is saying and the going toe saying they're >> but but the snp is saying and the going to target|g they're >> but but the snp is saying and the going to target comedians , not going to target comedians, they're not going to target actors or anything actors or performers or anything like that. but do you do you trust they said trust that they also said they weren't go afterjokes weren't going to go afterjokes with the original legislation? >> you know, section one, two, seven of the communications act. they jokes are they says, oh, no, jokes are fine. back then fine. they said that back then that not the case. that obviously was not the case. no, i, i fully believe they're going go after any type going to go after any type of artist , any type of, you know, artist, any type of, you know, pubuc artist, any type of, you know, public play performance or anything. street performers like onune anything. street performers like online comedians, youtube channels, tweets and everything. i mean, you're already getting people activists online people leftist activists online lined up, counting down the day till they get to grass. everybody in like they'll they're excited about it. and they're excited about it. and they even have humza yousaf saying, oh, please don't use it

to make vexatious complaints. even though he's of even though he's guilty of making complaints making vexatious complaints himself . himself. >> yeah, it's tricky, isn't it, because you can because they're saying you can complain , so there's complain anonymously, so there's not to any not going to be any ramifications and ramifications there. and they're also pledging to investigate every single complaint, the idea that trusting that they're just trusting activists not to behave vexatiously does seem kind of bizarre , doesn't it? but do bizarre, doesn't it? but why do the scottish put up with the scottish people put up with it, there come it, you know, doesn't there come a point where the snp's excesses, they're authoritarian instincts, just makes the electorate turn away? >> it's because of the three things that, you know, scottish people are raised with. you know, say please and thank you, don't get into a stranger's car. the are evil and the tories are bad and evil and you oppose them in every, the tories are bad and evil and you mannerpose them in every, the tories are bad and evil and you manner that them in every, the tories are bad and evil and you manner that youn in every, the tories are bad and evil and you manner that you possiblyy, every manner that you possibly can. so even if you know the right proposes something right wing proposes something goodin right wing proposes something good in scotland, it's bad and we hate it and we don't like it. we hate things like freedom and stuff like that. apparently you know, despite, you know, i mean, braveheart would kind of make up most of the world think that we loved freedom, but not apparently not. fine apparently not. we were fine enough the english,

enough to take on the english, but where but hearty words is where we draw the line. >> saw that film where >> yeah, i saw that film where he freedom! didn't >> yeah, i saw that film where he down freedom! didn't >> yeah, i saw that film where he down with om! didn't >> yeah, i saw that film where he down with hate didn't >> yeah, i saw that film where he down with hate speech,t >> yeah, i saw that film where he down with hate speech, did shout down with hate speech, did he? you know, didn't quite work that way. okay, so are you confident that that after confident that that that after april things will go april the 1st, things will go on as do you think that as normal? do you think that there's any way that maybe this has just been overblown? people keep saying to me, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. do you think that's possible? that maybe right maybe things will be all right in end? in the end? >> no, the exact same thing >> no, no. the exact same thing happened to me. section one, two, seven. like when you first introduce a law, you make sure you apply it to like, the real bad guys. so they going bad guys. so they were going after white after like the full on white nationalists, ones nationalists, you know, the ones that the public that are palatable to the public where the average person on the street of course street would go, oh, of course that and then that guy got arrested. and then everyone to support the everyone starts to support the law. happen law. more convictions happen under precedents. under it, which sets precedents. and is nice under it, which sets precedents. and strong, is nice under it, which sets precedents. and strong, know, is nice under it, which sets precedents. and strong, know, within,a and strong, you know, within, you know, the scottish legislation, that's when they flick right, flick the switch and go right, let's going let's start going after the government dissidents now, okay. >> well, we'll see what happens, where can people find more of your material, on your problematic material, on youtube? under count dankula, i'm not recommending my twitter

because i behaved very badly on twitter, not to twitter, so i'm not going to inflict that on upon more people. you find people. but yeah, you can find me youtube under account. dankula. >> fantastic. marcus meakin, thanks so much forjoining me. thanks, andrew. so next on free speech nation , david quinn is speech nation, david quinn is going to be here to tell us about the progress of proposed hate crime laws over in ireland. and plus, we're going to be going through our social sensations of the week and some unfiltered dilemmas. don't go anywhere. on this is the

the latest on this is the columnist sunday columnist at the sunday independent, quinn . david, independent, david quinn. david, welcome back the show. always

independent, david quinn. david, wpleasure ack the show. always independent, david quinn. david, wpleasure aci> okay, so and thanks for having me on. so three weeks ago there was two referendums in ireland and i think your viewers heard that couple of heard about that a couple of weeks there was one weeks ago. and so there was one on word mother's on removing the word mother's from and favour on removing the word mother's frothe and favour on removing the word mother's frothe gender and favour on removing the word mother's frothe gender neutral and favour on removing the word mother's frothe gender neutral carers. 'our of the gender neutral carers. and there was another one about putting this, alternative to

dramatically announced that he's stepping taoiseach. stepping down as taoiseach. and that's the next that's to happen in the next couple then couple of weeks. and then this fellow, come fellow, simon harris is to come in , this was of like in now, this was kind of like what party that what the tory party does that they a new leader, a new they elect a new leader, a new prime minister and don't consult the there's no the public. and there's been no election. and there's a fair amount of outcry about this. so simon harris was kind of the one man who actually wanted be man who actually wanted to be t shirt ruling fine shirt within the ruling fine gael party. and so he's coming along now. he's very much a fella who blows with the

along now. he's very much a fella 'whatilows with the z —— — — along now. he's very much a fella 'what morewith the ’—— — — along now. he's very much a fella 'what more you the ’—— — — along now. he's very much a fella 'what more you can ’—— — — along now. he's very much a fella 'what more you can sayéa . . along now. he's very much a fella 'what more you can say about — — know what more you can say about that monumental stupidity. >> well, exactly. >> well, exactly. >> it's sweet that >> yeah, it's very sweet that they try . they try. >> it is very sweet. okay, well, at they didn't and at least they didn't try and give mouth mouth. at least they didn't try and give know? mouth mouth. at least they didn't try and give know? i mouth mouth. at least they didn't try and giveknow? i mean, th mouth. at least they didn't try and give know? i mean, anyway, uth. at least they didn't try and give know? i mean, anyway, let's you know? i mean, anyway, let's move the show move on to the part of the show where about your where we talk about your unfiltered dilemmas. you're very, kind in all unfiltered dilemmas. you're ve your kind in all unfiltered dilemmas. you're veyour kind problemsall unfiltered dilemmas. you're ve your kind problems in of your personal problems in the hope will them. hope that we will solve them. bruce this. so bruce is very good at this. so let's what happens. let's let's see what happens. the comes the first dilemma comes in from harriet. says, i'm 27 harriet. harriet says, i'm 27 and mum hasn't bought me an and my mum hasn't bought me an easter egg for the first time this because i'm too old. i this year because i'm too old. i wouldn't mind if she gave me money i money instead, but i got nothing. being ungrateful? nothing. am i being ungrateful? >> you think? >> yes. do you think? yes. >> yes. do you think? yes. >> just gets point >> so it just gets to a point with easter where you shouldn't get but the thing she wants money

>> but the thing she wants money now. like what are you doing >> but the thing she wants money now. your what are you doing >> but the thing she wants money now. your own are you doing >> but the thing she wants money now. your own money,| doing >> but the thing she wants money now. your own money, harriet? with your own money, harriet? yeah do you not have a job? >> bruce very harsh. >> bruce is very harsh. >> bruce is very harsh. >> lying around >> are you just lying around waiting people to buy your waiting for people to buy your confectionery that? >> your that? >> your parents at that >> surely your parents at that point shouldn't buying point shouldn't be buying you easter eggs? >> should they be? >> should they be? >> won't fat >> kind of. they won't be fat shaming you. >> i think what's >> and i think that's what's going think it's fat >> oh, you think it's fat shaming for you, shaming enough eggs for you, harriet? what is? no. >> well, look, we don't know what looks so, what harriet looks like, so, you know, as know, you are perfect just as you are. >> harriet. >> harriet. >> don't worry about what the evil, nasty cressida says. let's move on to another dilemma from jasmine. jasmine and my jasmine. jasmine says me and my colleagues were playing snog, marry, picked marry, avoid. i picked a particular colleague to avoid and he took it very personally. he hasn't spoken to me for over a week now. do i apologise or is he being too sensitive? >> bruce i think jasmine's the one with the problem here. really? yeah, and i think she should apologise , guys. should apologise, guys. >> but surely if you're playing the choose the game, you have to choose someone. you? someone. don't you? >> yeah, but then be mindful of who because must who you choose because you must have of group who you choose because you must haviwas of group who you choose because you must haviwas and of group who you choose because you must haviwas and if of group who you choose because you must haviwas and if that of group

she was in. and if that information was going to get back. >> but maybe he's in love with her, or maybe that's, you know, i think making stuff i think we're just making stuff up she's appallingly >> she's behaved appallingly and she . she should be punished. >> okay, that's brutal >> okay, that's a brutal response, annie. >> it with >> you're supposed to do it with celebrities, aren't you? >> you're supposed say ant celebrities, aren't you? >> �*dec'e supposed say ant celebrities, aren't you? >> �*dec and pposed say ant celebrities, aren't you? >> �*dec and alaned say ant celebrities, aren't you? >> �*dec and alan titchmarsht celebrities, aren't you? >> �*dec and alan titchmarsh go and dec and alan titchmarsh go or something like that. really? >> all three? all three? absolutely. >> that's where you're going >> so that's where you're going wrong there. you should have done celebrities. so to done it with celebrities. so to speak. let's have a quick dilemma every month dilemma from peter. every month or my friend and i go out for or so my friend and i go out for a the past few times a drink. the past few times i've been he always been paid and he always says that me but that he will send me half, but never we only have never does. we usually only have one but it's all one pint each, but it's all starting i'm due starting to add up. i'm due to see again week, but i see him again this week, but i really pay. do see him again this week, but i riraise pay. do see him again this week, but i ri raise the pay. do see him again this week, but i ri raise the issue pay. do see him again this week, but i ri raise the issue without do see him again this week, but i ri raise the issue without it do i raise the issue without it being have been being awkward? have you been in that well, being awkward? have you been in that people well, being awkward? have you been in that people just well, being awkward? have you been in that people just don'tell, being awkward? have you been in that people just don't pay where people just don't pay their share. when you go out for drinks, they pay their share with me. >> believe me. >> believe me. >> yeah they do. >> yeah they do. >> i've been there. >> i know i've been there. >> yes. >> yes. >> yeah. >> yes. >> ieah. >> yes. >> i think you just say i don't have can't come have any money. i can't come out. as simple as that. out. oh, it's as simple as that. yeah, out. oh, it's as simple as that. yeawhat you think. out. oh, it's as simple as that. yeaiihat you think. out. oh, it's as simple as that. yeai think you think. out. oh, it's as simple as that. yeai think hints think. out. oh, it's as simple as that. yeai think hints never work. no. >> i think hints never work. no. he's got cut he's just got to cut the friendship and admit life is lonely. >> e“- en—

w brutal advice from >> wow. very brutal advice from both of our panellists tonight. >> but the thing is, how much is a pint? >> it's pretty expensive these days. this been days. bruce. look, this has been our special. thanks our hate speech. special. thanks so joining us for free so much for joining us for free speech nation. this was the week, of course, when the scottish prepared scottish government prepared to launch on free launch an assault on free speech, peter launch an assault on free speech, whiteifiagé, . . . . .

and rain, particularly northern england, southern scotland, 9 or 10 degrees in the best any 10 degrees in the best of any sunny this sunny spells either side of this up to around 14 or 15 degrees for tuesday. a mixed picture. we'll have sunny spells and scattered showers across much of the country. however, low cloud rain and drizzle will affect parts of scotland. then later on in day , further wet and in the day, further wet and windy weather starts moving into the remains the southwest. it remains unsettled through into wednesday and thursday, further rain and thursday, with further rain at times. temperatures around average . average. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news