football hooligans before it had even began . i can't remember even began. i can't remember seeing so many police, quite frankly . vans, horses, you name frankly. vans, horses, you name it. and by the way, after a certain outcome of a certain court case today, you'd have thought that had perhaps been advancing things a little bit more caution. but no, it feels like two tier policing is alive and well in this country. like two tier policing is alive and well in this country . am and well in this country. am i wrong or not.7 and rishi sunak has increased defence spending to 2.5% of gdp. is that enough .7 to 2.5% of gdp. is that enough? i can't help though, but think it sounds a bit rich talking about defence when you fail to defend your own border each and every single day. but were it not the rwanda plan to the

rescue and get this one neighbourhood in birmingham has a 32 page rule book of what you can and cannot do if you want to live there. is this a step too far or common sense and something we need more of also as well? a simple question for you. do you think we need more pubuc you. do you think we need more public toilets or not? see you in two. well, we're going to get stuck into all of that and more. but before we do, let's cross live for tonight's latest news headlines. >> good evening. i'm ray addison in the gb newsroom on the day that five channel migrants died off the french coast, including a four year old child, gb news can reveal that more than 250 others have crossed to the uk . a others have crossed to the uk. a small boat got into difficulties off wimereux beach near boulogne before 2 am. a number of other migrants were rescued, with at

least one now critically ill in hospital . five other small boats hospital. five other small boats have now been received by border force and the dover lifeboat, with migrants transported to the processing centre in dover harbour. a further two boats were seen heading towards uk waters . senior figures from the waters. senior figures from the united nations and the council of europe have criticised the government's plan to send asylum seekers to rwanda, warning that it sets a worrying precedent. the prime minister says nothing will stand in the way of flights getting off the ground after the bill finally passed through parliament late last night. but un officials say it breaches the refugee convention and reduces the ability of british courts to scrutinise removal decisions. labour leader sir keir starmer says the scheme will not work. >> government has lost control of the borders, but this rwanda gimmick is not the way to stop it. it cost an absolute fortune. £300 million already another 50

million either this week or to next remove a few hundred people. that's a drop in the ocean . to put that into ocean. to put that into perspective, a week ago sunday, over 500 crossed the channel in small boats . that's more than small boats. that's more than the entire number. the government plans to remove in a whole year. >> the prime minister has announced plans to increase defence spending to 2.5% of gdp by 2030. during a trip to poland, rishi sunak said the budget will reach £87 billion by the end of the decade. addressing troops in a military hangan addressing troops in a military hangar, he also said the uk defence industry will be put on a war footing. mr sunak described the plans as the biggest strengthening of our national defence in a generation. >> as churchill said in 1934, to urge the preparation of defence is not to insert the imminence of war. on the contrary, if war was imminent, preparation for defence would be too late. i

believe we must do more to defend our country, our interests and our values. so today i'm announcing the biggest strengthening of our national defence. for a generation . we defence. for a generation. we will increase defence spending to a new baseline of 2.5% of gdp by 2030. >> well, that announcement comes as rishi sunak warned that president putin will not stop at the polish border if his assault on ukraine is allowed to continue. earlier, britain pledged its largest ever package of aid for kyiv worth £500 million. during the warsaw trip, the pm is holding talks with the leaders of poland, germany and nato , warning that the defence nato, warning that the defence of ukraine is essential to our joint security. ukraine's president zelenskyy has welcomed the package , which includes the package, which includes long—range missiles, armoured vehicles and boats as well. as we've been hearing, police were faced with violence today. saint george's day event in whitehall this afternoon when a group

tried to force its way through a cordon . mounted officers on cordon. mounted officers on horses needed to intervene when the group broke through the police barrier. the force earlier said it expected some, quote, far right groups and groups linked to football clubs, end quote, to attend the event. police say six people have been arrested . labour have outlined arrested. labour have outlined plans to tackle rural crime. research shows that crime rates in the countryside are surging faster than in urban areas . the faster than in urban areas. the strategy would see increased police patrols with tougher penalties for thefts and anti—social behaviour . the anti—social behaviour. the government is dismissing that idea as a toothless tweak around the edges. however, sir keir starmer says it will mean communities will be better protected. and finally, in the united states, the judge overseeing donald trump's so—called hush money trial has warned that his lawyer was, quote , losing all credibility by quote, losing all credibility by claiming that he didn't violate a 939 claiming that he didn't violate a gag order. the order was intended to prevent the former

president from criticising witnesses. his lawyers claim that comments he's made publicly were simply responses to what they called political attacks. but the judge said that argument was without any evidence . okay. was without any evidence. okay. for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on the right hand side of your screen right now, or go to gbnews.com/alerts now back to . michelle. back to. michelle. >> thanks very much for that round michelle dewberry. i'm with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me, the man that was just chuckling away through the headunes just chuckling away through the headlines there when was talking about toothless tweaks, the parliamentary sketch writer for the daily mail, quentin letts, and also alongside me, the author and journalist ella whelan. good evening to both of you . i always say i need to do a you. i always say i need to do a spin off program, which is the paneps spin off program, which is the panel's reactions to some of the headlines, because i think it's almost like a gogglebox style show in itself. >> toothless tweak i love. we

don't actually know when you heard the trump thing as well. do you know there was a mr. pecker giving evidence in a mr. pecker? >> i did not realise there was a mr. pecker. some of these names you couldn't actually, make up if you tried, could you, anyway , if you tried, could you, anyway, we are dewbs& co tonight, and as i said, we're with you till seven. it is about you guys at home as well. what's on your mind tonight? you can get in touch with me all the usual ways. you can tweet me, you can email me. you can get yourself over to the website and go on gb news .com/ your say wherever you are tonight you're very welcome indeed, but lots of you by the way, have been getting in touch with me today, showing me your flags. i love a good flag, i do. let's have a look at this one, this is tom's. oh, that's look at that. he's wearing it. he's got it on his head. he's got it on, wrapped around his shoulders. very patriotic. would you like that one? who's this up next? barry, let's have a look at barry's glorious little set up there. very nice. who's next? dave? oh, double flagging it there. like it ? who's next? there. like it? who's next? theresa. let's have a look . very

theresa. let's have a look. very nice. and thomas . oh, look at nice. and thomas. oh, look at thomas i think i know where you are. i think that's london, isn't it. is that the event in london? i'll come on to that in a minute. are you flying a flag outside your house, quentin? >> i'm a bit embarrassed, actually, because i left home on monday. yesterday was it? and i left the union jack flying, and i haven't changed it to the saint george's job, so. really, i will be in bad odour with the union jack flying outside your house all the time. >> yeah, we've got a flagpole. really? yeah. i did not know. >> and we have the flag of herefordshire. sometimes. >> i don't know why i didn't have you down as a flag flyer. i'm not sure why. >> my father was very keen on flags, and i inherited his flag pole. did you really have to transport it? glorious. rather long on top of the car. >> we had a whole debate the other night on this programme about whether or not one needs planning permission for a flag pole, i don't know, i haven't got it. >> it was it was like it was anunciata rees—mogg. >> she was saying, i'm sure it was her. she was saying you didn't. one of my viewers was

saying you did. if it was a certain height, i'm not sure whoever actually got to the bottom of it anyway, a flag flyer. hello. >> i'm afraid not. i'll be lynched by my ancestors. the irish thing. >> there you go. >> there you go. >> anyway, keep your flags. the irish flags. >> keep your pictures coming in. one of the things that caught my eye today was, a tweet from the metropolitan police, because, of course, we know by now we've just been talking about it. saint george's day. and there was an event planned in central london, very quick, off the mark. the metropolitan police came out and said an event to mark saint george's day is expected to take place on richmond terrace off whitehall, which is near downing street. basically for anyone that's not familiar with london, anyway, the police said we believe those planning to attend include far right groups and groups linked to football clubs travelling from elsewhere in the uk. well, you can imagine everyone was desperate for it all to kick off, you can just imagine how many people would have been lined up there, absolutely desperate for something to go horribly wrong, i've got to say, look, i'm showing you a bit of footage now. so this is from the area where they were allowed to

stand. everybody in this free country , a designated area where country, a designated area where they were allowed to stand, anyway, it didn't take too much time before the next set of images , started coming through, images, started coming through, this one was actually tweeted out by the metropolitan police. what you can see there , if you what you can see there, if you ask me anyway, is the police the kettling in, people that are attending this event because heaven forbid, they had the audacity to step out of the pink shaded area where they'd been allowed, to stand. you can see there the police horses in there come charging in. i've got another perspective on this one as well. you can see now, this is film directly from the other side of that police cordon there. really. and i look at that and i think, is there any need?is that and i think, is there any need? is there really any need? was there any need to kettle these people? was there really any need to go charging in with that horse ? i've got a, i've got that horse? i've got a, i've got a strap a text box running so you can't actually see the

bottom of that screen. but there was just three fellows standing there against the wall when that police horse kind of charged in, like that, apparently, someone else walloped one of those horses with an umbrella. and if thatis horses with an umbrella. and if that is indeed true , then of that is indeed true, then of course i don't condone that, but anyway, as the event kind of carried on, i saw lots of tsg units piling in police with their , helmets and all the rest their, helmets and all the rest of it, and it feels to me like there is a two tiered approach. quentin when it comes to protesting in this country, because i don't see every week that kind of police approach . that kind of police approach. >> no, you don't. and i think that's a fair point. however i would also just sound a little note of caution about this event . first i heard about this event today. was the helicopters flying over westminster and suddenly thought, well, there's something something going on here, but this was it seems to have had some sort of political flavour to it because it had, speeches. we're going to be organised, i think, by laurence fox and tommy robinson, who's not a particularly hygienic

fellow, and therefore it sounds it certainly wasn't. this was not a it could not have been mistaken for a church of england fete. >> well, hang on, by the way, because i do want to in case anyone's not familiar, you say about tommy robinson, whatever you just described him as, he had the final day of a court case today when the met police were found to have acted in a way against him that was actually unlawful. all he essentially had his case chucked out of court. apparently, he shouldn't have been arrested in the way that he was. he shouldn't have had bail conditions attached to him, the way that he should have . way that he should have. >> yeah. be that as it may, i'm just not sure that, he's an entirely neutral figure, anyway , entirely neutral figure, anyway, well, cycling through the price of fish, if someone's not neutral. well what i'm saying is, i think this was undoubtedly a political event and that the police would have had their eye on that as a result, this was not a civic family gathering. >> but what's not. but. okay, you can say that these, pro—palestine marches. yeah. >> which the police also form of political statement by many. >> yeah .

>> yeah. >> yeah. >> with the police do i don't see police horses charging people. i don't see people. >> the police certainly turn up at those events. >> and in that manner, quentin, i am reluctant to attack the police without strong evidence otherwise. >> so you think that it's all nothing to see here, the way that they're pleased? that event today is exactly the way they pleased. everything else. >> not saying that. not not not not at all. and i don't like seeing police horses charging into crowds. however i am not yet convinced that the police are bang to rights on this. >> hello. i think there's two things happening here. >> on the one hand, these kind of saint george's day events, gatherings , protests, whatever gatherings, protests, whatever you want to call them. historically, do quite often descend into, you know, shoving around police horses, you know, crushing police, all the rest of it. that kind of behaviour that, you know, is probably most of us wouldn't engage in. there's images of it now on the screen of you know, a bit of a bit of disorder, a bit of drinking, all the rest of it. so, i mean, on the rest of it. so, i mean, on the one hand, that happens , i

the one hand, that happens, i suppose the police have to respond to it. and, i think quentin was fairly light on tommy robinson. he's very litigious . tommy robinson. he's very litigious. i'm tommy robinson. he's very litigious . i'm not going to go litigious. i'm not going to go into it, but certainly i wouldn't want to go drinking with him. i don't think he's a nice bloke. i don't think his views are very nice. and so there's that. >> nobody has to like everyone in society. not at all. >> but i'm. that's me politically judging what's going on there. i also think it's kind of interesting that the saint george's day thing has turned into this kind of culture war. maybe we could get into that. but the second point, which is almost kind of like you say, so what if that's your view of those people ? the second point those people? the second point is that the police are treating this differently. so you know, for example, they've got to put in a section 60 order, to allow them to increase stop and searches in cyst on people removing their masks. and, you know, that kind of quick , hard know, that kind of quick, hard and heavy action has been absent from some of these saturday pro—palestine marches, for example, where you see a tenor within the police or a sort of approach of much more kind of, well, the jihad thing, it's debateable. well you know, we

we're kind of doing a hands off thing or even worse, you've seen, as has been documented over the last week, police officers escorting people out of the way because they're openly jewish. so you know, the police pick and choose where they want to politically intervene. and obviously tweeting that the group is far right and even worse, even worse than far right, perhaps football supporters. that was the worst bit of that. >> it was a stupid, stupid tweet is a political intervention, which is at best unnecessary unrest and at worst biased . unrest and at worst biased. >> so there's two points here. you don't have to like the whole kind of, i think, pantomime nature of the saint george's day thing , which, you know, has thing, which, you know, has a political edge to it, that i personally don't agree with. but the point about different styles of policing , i think, stands the of policing, i think, stands the met can do what it wants and come in hard and heavy with the police, with the riot gear and the horses and the charging when it wants to and when it doesn't want to. it doesn't. so the disparity between what happens on the saturdays and what happens now is, is probably clear for all to see. i would like police to not ever charge

people with horses and stuff like that, unless it's absolutely necessary because of the threat of physical violence. so i'm not suggesting that the police repeat what they've done to the robinson fans and the rest of them this coming saturday. >> i just don't know why you have to have any. i don't know why this protest had to be outside downing street. what's that got to do with saint george? saint george's day is nothing to do with politics, really. >> but this is what i mean about the sort of culture war thing. it's been interesting watching social media today. there's been i've seen far more how dare you say that about saint george posts than i have outrageous posts than i have outrageous posts about saint george. there's a kind of maybe the nature of social media. well, there's a bit of a sort of i think there's a bit of a kind of, i suppose it speaks to sort of, i suppose it speaks to sort of the question of, well, what doesit of the question of, well, what does it mean to be you know, english. what does it mean to be, you know , fan of saint be, you know, fan of saint george? what are we what are the values that we aspire to be, which we often talk about on this show, and i think on days like saint george's day, people, you know , rightly or wrongly,

you know, rightly or wrongly, resort to the flags, the fish and chip, the, you know, isn't it lovely to be english thing, which is fine, but as a political kind of understanding of what it really means to live in this country is unsatisfactory. >> i don't understand your point about when you're saying about why do they want to be down whitehall. >> well why not? >> well why not? >> what's it gonna do? what's it gonna do? >> what's that got to do with saint george? saint george to me, is about shakespeare. it's about, the broad, forgiving culture that we have right . and culture that we have right. and it's to do with, the beautiful countryside we have and our sense of humour. and it's to do with our grub . it's got nothing with our grub. it's got nothing to do with having a protest outside . outside. >> that's your interpretation of it. >> and a lot of these people, by the way. no, no, of course, i mean, you know, it's a free country. >> they're allowed to do generally we're allowed to do what we want. but at the same time, part of me recoils from our patron saints. not that i feel very strongly about the patron saint because i'm a protestant, but , the idea of my

protestant, but, the idea of my national identity somehow being politicised by tommy robinson, i just i don't want that to happen, but i just found this such a peculiar nature because, sorry, such a peculiar point that. >> why are you down, whitehall? because what saint george got to do with whitehall or whatever. but this was undoubtedly a political gathering. white march is going to pass. whitehall all the time. this march, it wasn't even a well, i'm reluctant to even a well, i'm reluctant to even call it a march. i think it was just an event, a gathering, a central destination that happened to be that central point in london. and they were told, you've got to be stationary, you've got to stand still. and then the police are tweeting out. you've got an hour to go before the commencement of the event and look what they're doing. they're pushing past police lines. but why are you kettling people ? kettling people? >> this is it. >> this is it. >> it's interesting. if you just before the show came on, ellie costello interviewed some people in dartford and i was listening to one of the interviews with a couple in a pub and when she said, you know why? why do you feel, why do you want to come

out and celebrate on saint george's day? and he had a very defensive position, the, the man interviewed her. he said, you know, it feels like you're not allowed to be, you know, patriotic. it feels like you're not allowed to fly the flag and support saint george's day. and so that's why i think it's important to come out and do it. and i think that defensiveness is because, you know, we have had culturally and politically a very snobby attitude to, you know, as much as i'm not a fan of it, the saint george's flag, you know, let's go back to emily thornberry doing the whole kind of tweet about, was it rochdale? there's a real sneery attitude to the kind of, a lot of the time, working class expressions of patriotism and so that defensiveness might be justified in some senses . defensiveness might be justified in some senses. but it's defensiveness might be justified in some senses . but it's not in some senses. but it's not it's not political. it's not politically substantial to go down the kind of bang the drum patriotic route. it's a bit of fun. and, you know, i think we should take it lightly, but the idea that it would get turned into this big protest movement, which i think it was outside of whitehall, it was it was quite far in political. there's no problem with that. >> that's because the police wouldn't let them go on whitehall. so they they had

their shaded area where they had to stand stationary, on and around richmond terrace or whatever it's called. and then those people wanted to whatever they wanted to do, wander around, have the audacity to walk down a street . from what i walk down a street. from what i saw. the police then cut that line off. so you had some people there, some people here and the police going, well, you're not going through well. so if people 90, going through well. so if people go, well, actually my mates there or i want to go that way, that's not massively unreasonable. i saw old people knocked down to the ground. i saw police horses, like bashing up against people that were stood absolutely stationary. and i can't help but wonder. and this is just me wondering out loud if that group of people were standing there waving pride flags, or if that group of people would stand there waving palestinian flags, would they get that reaction from the metropolitan police? i don't think that they would. >> well, no, that's probably the best, comparison is , you know, best, comparison is, you know, go back to the sort of interventions made by just stop oil or extinction rebellion, where there was people in papier mache all lying all along the routes in, around westminster.

and the police were very unwilling to take out or remove people who were literally causing public disturbance and blocking roads and things like that, that in comparison to which essentially is the kettling of people this afternoon, whatever i think about those people down in whitehall, the kettling of them i think is pretty outrageous. and quentin, i don't know, maybe you disagree, but i think there is a disparity there. and i think, you know, i agree, agree. >> no, i think i think there is two, two tier policing. >> well there you go. what do you make to it, at home as always, you can have the final word. i just think, i always, you can have the final word. ijust think, i mean, both of my guests have mentioned tommy robinson. anyone that's followed that court case today , followed that court case today, it was, i would say, quite humiliating, for the police, actually . and i would have actually. and i would have thought that there perhaps would have slightly adjusted their attitude today, but alas, not what do you make to it all? get in touch. all the usual ways. coming up after the break, i want to talk to you about defence. we have got an extra £75 billion announced for defence over the next six years. is it enough? will it be spent in the right area or not? see

you in two.

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. the parliamentary sketchwriter for the daily mail. quentin letts and the author and journalist ella whelan are alongside me until seven, your thoughts coming in thick and fast on that saint george's day topic. i'll bring some of you into the conversation in a few minutes. but for now, rishi sunak has announced that uk defence spending will increase. let's listen to some of what he had to say . had to say. >> we've entered a period in history in which competition between countries has sharpened profoundly an axis of authoritarian states with different values to ours, like russia , iran, north korea and russia, iran, north korea and china are increasingly assertive . so the new assertiveness of these authoritarian states far

from our shores must concern us because they are increasingly acting together against the fundamental values that we all hold dear of democracy, freedom and the rule of law . and the rule of law. >> they occur so long story short, defence spending will go up. now it will be 2.5% of gdp. and also apparently that means about £75 billion across the space of six years. i mean, it's all well and good talking about these agitating states and these aggressive states and all the rest of it. i think i look at it and i think you can't even defend your border, against a group of men in a rubber dinghy. so how do you think you're going to defend this country, against the likes of your china , your the likes of your china, your russia and all the rest of it? is it just money? is that is it as simple as that, quentin? >> money is important in defence and this is a proper a good and serious decision , whether or not serious decision, whether or not it's going to solve the short tum problems is a very different matter, because defence spending

takes an awful long time , to get takes an awful long time, to get through. and also arguably actually one of the big changes in the last year or so is that in the last year or so is that in defence, big heavy duty projects are now possibly going to be less important, spending in defence is possibly going to be more agile and nimble in future in that drones have become such a big story, and it's much cheaper to have drones . it's much cheaper to have lasers as well. and so some of the, some of the one of the big stories in defence spending is that we're going to need less of it, funnily enough, which is slightly counterintuitive to this. today but i think the prime minister is right about the danger of russia and iran particularly. i'm less convinced by the military danger, certainly to us, of china and nonh certainly to us, of china and north korea. but certainly the iranians and russians are colluding at the moment. this axis of authoritarian states. that's a phrase, shades of, george w bush there. >> hello? >> hello? >> yeah . i agree that it's >> yeah. i agree that it's a welcome move. i mean, it's a lot of money, but there are some people saying it's not enough.

you have to remember that there was there has been a real failure to, keep up with what's neededin failure to, keep up with what's needed in terms of defence spending. there's also the sort of , you know, relatively large of, you know, relatively large elephant in the room, which is that you can spend all the money you like on equipment and preparations and deterrence, but you need to have a population of citizens who are a significant portion of that population, who are willing to step up and use that equipment and do the defence, because you're very good point, people. and we know that there's a problem with that in terms of, you know, let's let me be clear, a nice problem that we've not had to have generations go to war for a significant amount of time. and i don't lament that, but it does. one of the effects of that means that and i'm i'm no fan of war. certainly nobody is. but it means that in terms of willingness to make that great sacrifice, to imagine yourself being able to do what needs to being able to do what needs to be done in war is something that i think is just out of the realm of possibility for certainly for

a lot of young people, that's the kind of that's a cultural hill we're going to have to climb. >> not so much cultural. >> not so much cultural. >> i mean, you're talking i presume you're talking about recruitment here, military recruitment here, military recruitment and one of the reasons one of the big things that affects that is unemployment rates. and because there's been low unemployment recently , it's meant it's harder recently, it's meant it's harder for the military to recruit youngsters. but that, you know, is in a way that's quite a nice problem to have too. >> but i don't i don't think it's just a practical one. i think, you know, sunak is talking about making some statements. you know, i would get behind some big, big statements about the fact that the difference between russia and iran or , you know, various and iran or, you know, various islamist groups in the middle east, the civilizational differences between us as being we believing in freedom and autonomy and democracy and sovereignty, and them not believing in that. well having that strong sense of what it means to be part of this country , what it means to fight for your country, means that you have to have that kind of coherent national identity. and i think that we've just had a row about it in relation to saint george, but that is that

has suffered that sense of what it means to be a british citizen. you know what it means to want to fight for your country. and so that that sort of ideological cultural battle has to be waged a bit better by this government or any government that comes in in the future, because at the moment it's a bit of an ask to say, well, fight for your it's not like it was in previous generations where there was a clear sense of what you would be fighting for. and, and, and, you know, the kind of values around that, so i think you make a very good point because on the one hand, if, heaven forbid, anything was to go wrong to the point where you need, particularly young, fit and able bodied people to stand and fight for the country, if you were in that situation when you spend years telling those people you're far right, you're racist, the younger people, you can't afford to get a house, you have all of these kind of, forces going against you. but i think particularly if you're a young white male in this country, you seem to be at the lowest level of the pecking order for pretty much anything, really. but then when you then call upon those

people to actually stand and fight for you, i think that you probably would find yourself with quite a big problem. and i don't know the answer to that, by the way. i'm just sharing and reflecting your point. >> i hold back a little bit on the self—hatred of britain here. i think this country is a fantastic place, and i think it's a much more fantastic place than russia or iran. and i suspect a lot of young russians would agree with you. also and a lot of young iranians. and so let's not be quite so down on our country. >> nobody's been down on it. i've said , no, michelle's having i've said, no, michelle's having a girl. >> it's the whole time, i think i think this place is a different i think you will find there will be no shortage of pride in this country. >> if it came to a serious emergency. >> comparing us to russia is a bit of. i mean, i consider it to be a bit of a low bar, but that's what we're doing, isn't it? >> that's what we are doing. >> that's what we are doing. >> but but to make a cheap point, it's also the case that the british army is itself, creating a situation in which sort of the thing, the things that you need to fight a war sort of hardiness , having sort of hardiness, having a tough neck, being sort of resilient are seem to be sort of

dirty words, whether it's rows about, you know, gender and diversity quotas or kind of the woke stories that keep coming out of the army about so and so being reprimanded for misgendering or whatever it is. it feels like there that , you it feels like there that, you know, the one place in the country, the one institution that you think should be just intolerant of any nonsense like that and be focused on getting yourself like you said, fit enough and mentally resilient enough and mentally resilient enough to let's not beat around the bush here, potentially kill people in defence of your country. the greatest sacrifice you could ever make. >> and just to be clear, i'm not having a go at doing that job. well, i'm not having a go at you too. i'm just getting absolutely sick and tired. there's nothing aimed at you. >> i know it's not being tired all the time of anyone. that is patriotic . there is proud of patriotic. there is proud of their country. that's not ashamed of whether it's the flag or the anthem or whatever. i'm sick and tired of those people being called racist, being called far right, being kettled, into streets and being told you

can't move, whereas other people that seem to be able to celebrate their rights and all the rest of it, they don't seem to have that level of abuse or restriction placed upon them. i'm fed up of the majority of this country being told that they continuously have to bend over backwards to accommodate the whim of each and every single minority group , and if single minority group, and if they don't, they are a horrible, awful human being that's xenophobic or whatever else it is. i get a little bit tired of it anyway, if i bring it back to spending on defence. donald trump, he very passionately spoke out and said that countries that were not willing to spend enough money on their own defence shouldn't be perhaps bailed out by nato. did you agree with his sentiment on that? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> do you remember when he told off he went to a nato meeting when he was president trump and i think he had angela merkel opposite him and she was she was looking at him like he was a dead sausage. by the end of that one, because she didn't like being told off, he was absolutely right . and as, as absolutely right. and as, as a result and since then, european countries or other nato

countries or other nato countries have, shown a little bit more enthusiasm for, contributing to the budget . contributing to the budget. quite right too. and one of the good things about this thing today , i think sunak is showing today, i think sunak is showing some leadership among other nato leaders. he's saying to them, come on, look, we've this is this is our responsibility as much as america's. and we've got to show that we are willing members of the club because , you members of the club because, you know, you can't rely on washington doing everything. >> indeed , one of the things >> indeed, one of the things that gets me last night, i swore to myself i was not going to mention rwanda again. i've got so bored of going around these ridiculous circles when it comes to the rwanda plan. i never wanted to see it mentioned again until it had crossed the line. anyway, it did cross the line at about quarter past midnight. so now that is apparently imminently going to become law. do you think this will actually change anything? i mean, you've had those people very sadly, including a little girl, die crossing the channel you know, will this actually change anything? the rwanda plan? >> no , i don't think anyone's >> no, i don't think anyone's under the illusion that it's anything other than perhaps sunak. but i actually don't even

believe that he that he believes it himself. that this is anything other than a sort of tokenistic show of wanting to do something . i believe the letters something. i believe the letters there's, you know, the very if you're talking about a deterrent, i mean, anybody who pays any attention to british news, watching the farce that has been the implementation of this bill knows that there is in terms of deterrent, it isn't going to be effective. i also just i mean , in terms of the just i mean, in terms of the sort of practicalities of stopping people traffickers and stopping people traffickers and stopping the tragedy of deaths like we've seen over the last 24 hours, it isn't necessarily going to be the quick fix. what we need to do is tackle the issue of immigration much more broadly. >> just quickly, you just said that you do. >> i do, yeah . >> i do, yeah. >> i do, yeah. >> i do, yeah. >> i interrupt this misery fest to say that i think yesterday was, i mean, it's long overdue. and the blasted house of lords and a whole legal apparat that was trying to stop this, this , was trying to stop this, this, this this project, i think they're disgraceful behaviour because they're basically helping the people smugglers. but i think potentially this is

a very good policy , and i think a very good policy, and i think there's a potential here for it. and the home office is in discussion with other african countries for it to be rolled out , as they say, to other, out, as they say, to other, african countries and there is also the possibility of other european countries then taking the lead from britain and doing the lead from britain and doing the same . and i think that in the same. and i think that in the same. and i think that in the cumulative effect and the message going out could be extremely good. and the home affairs committee went to france, north france, and saw they heard evidence of the impact of the original announcement on the rwanda plan. and it was instant, instant it the asylum seekers were were immediately taking this on board. >> there you go, andrew. i think andrew, you must be one acquaintance. friends. you've got in touch and said, michel, you are a drama queen. please can you calm down, luckily for you, i've got a break now. i'll take a chill pill within it. when i come back, i want to talk to you about neighbourhoods. do you think we need to have stricter rules among our communities to help build up a sense of belonging and unity?

tell me. i'll see you in two.

thousand hello there. i'm michelle dewberry with you until 7:00 tonight. the parliamentary sketchwriter for the daily mail. quentin letts alongside me, as is the author and journalist ella whelan . welcome back ella whelan. welcome back everyone. liam says, please, can you say a happy 41st anniversary to my wife , wendy dacre? to my wife, wendy dacre? consider it done. liam says, why is anyone who flies a saint george flag automatically accused of being far right and a supporter of tommy robinson ? are supporter of tommy robinson? are you not allowed to be english and proud to be so in england these days, who else is this defence? lesley says michelle, we can't even get people in this country to go out to work. let alone try and get them to go out to war. harry says the only reason the armed forces cannot recruit is because kids today do not like being told what to do,

he says. do you agree with that or not? get this everybody, a housing estate in a very nice area of birmingham. they've created a like a neighbourhood code if you would like. it's a 30 odd page handbook. it's got all kinds of different rules, as to what people need to do . you to what people need to do. you can't have artificial grass to the front of your property , all the front of your property, all your railings and your gates need to be painted one colour. if you want a satellite dish, you've got to get permission. you can't park your caravans and motorhomes for a long period of time on your driveway. you can't hang your washing on set and days.is hang your washing on set and days. is this the future of neighbourhoods? quentin i don't know. >> i hope not, because i don't like being told what to do ehhen like being told what to do either, and i would probably be very disobedient about this . and very disobedient about this. and if you if you're told you can't put down plastic grass, then i think in certainly speaking for myself , it would think in certainly speaking for myself, it would make me just want to do exactly that. there are parts of germany, i'm told, where you're not allowed to mow your lawn on a sunday. i don't know what the reason for that is. it may be an old calvinist

thing, i don't know, or perhaps it's just that the germans like to, go to sleep on sunday afternoon. i don't know, but, the. anyway, this is edgbaston village. it's called, in in birmingham . very nice part of birmingham. very nice part of birmingham. very nice part of birmingham. i say, you know, you've got to have money there, but these people are complaining about it. presumably when they bought their properties, did they not look at the terms and conditions. i don't know. >> that's a very good point. >> that's a very good point. >> neighbours. >> neighbours. >> yeah. yeah. i don't know where it says, it's , calthorpe where it says, it's, calthorpe estates. we've always invested in maintaining the integrity and penod in maintaining the integrity and period charm of the estates to provide a quality environment where people want to live. >> well, it's interesting , i >> well, it's interesting, i mean, expanding from the conversation we've just had about what it means to be, you know, english, the whole sort of englishman's home is his castle is quite sacrosanct. and we don't we don't like to be told what to do, and we don't like to be pushed around. so this seems to be sort of in flying in the face of that. but it's fascinating to me that there is this trend towards wanting to live in perfect toytown , almost

live in perfect toytown, almost stepford wives kind of neighbourhood. >> hyacinth bucket close. >> hyacinth bucket close. >> exactly. yeah. the sort of a sort of suburbia on steroids, that in the in throughout the lockdown sort of hellish period, there was this big trend of people partly wanting space and a bit of quiet, moving out to the countryside, moving into all sort of very rural little idyllic towns that had never seen someone move there for, for decades, and part of that was a desire for space, like i said. but it was also sort of a i think it's a longing for a kind of community. i've just commissioned a really good essay in defence of suburbia, which i don't particularly agree with. as a born and bred londoner, central londoner myself. but but, you know, an interesting point that people want a sense of kind of neighbourhood , of kind of neighbourhood, community and collectiveness. and this might be the sort of slightly more bureaucratic , slightly more bureaucratic, maybe slightly fascistic side. >> another thing driving it is looking after each other's property values. and i've lived, times in my i've been posted to

new york a couple of times, and in new york, in your office in your not your office blocks, your not your office blocks, your apartment blocks , there's your apartment blocks, there's always the superintendent. who's the person who looks after the building . and there are there building. and there are there tend to be very strict rules in those buildings, too. and it's to do with, first of all, living at close quarters and getting on with each other, but also preserving the value in a in a communal building of your own flat. >> i was just about to say something and i thought well i can't say that because quentin will tell me off for being negative. >> good. you see i was going to say what the positive vibes are seeping through. >> i'm going to say obviously they've not seeped through, far enough as i was going to say. that's all well and good, but a lot of people, they do everything possible to maintain their property to a good standard. and then along comes some developer and transforms the terrace house down their street into some hmo, shoves it full with god only knows who. and down go your property values, and you don't have a lot of influence on that , but i'll of influence on that, but i'll try and be more positive. >> i'm not sure that'll happen in edgbaston village. >> i think that you're absolutely right on that one. i must confess, i want to talk to

you about something that i'm led to believe by many of you. is a very important topic. i'm asking you a simple question. do we need more public toilets? tell me. see you in two. however

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry till 7:00 alongside me. the parliamentary sketchwriter for the daily mail. quentin letts and the author and journalist ella wheeler . and, journalist ella wheeler. and, now the wales senior forum , now the wales senior forum, which is a national forum of older people, has basically warned that older people are deliberately doing things like avoiding drinking water or liquids, etc. before they go out because of a lack of public toilets . i because of a lack of public toilets. i read a comment piece about this in the telegraph today, and it was saying the headuneis today, and it was saying the headline is the shortage of pubuc headline is the shortage of public lavatories is proof that britain despises its old. ella

whelan, what do you think to this? >> i feel really passionately about this. i think public toilets are a central part of social public infrastructure, of they're vital. there should ten , they're vital. there should ten, be 100 times more of them, you know, pregnant women and old people, older people or even a vast number of middle aged men, need to go to the toilet regularly, regularly, regularly . regularly, regularly, regularly. and it's you end up sort of bartering with restaurants, trying to force your way back into the dirty loos at the back of corner shops and, or, you know, doing things that you don't want to be doing in public behind bushes because you're just desperate to go and it does mean that it hampers your ability to go around in in public. we know that public toilets often have double the number of urinals than they have women's toilets. and actually, there's a really interesting i'll just give you a very quick potted history on this, which is that there, there was, you know, no toilets for women pre—victorian era. and there was this sort of campaign by groups

like the ladies sanitary association was a kind of high faluting one. and then there was a sort of more working class one that formed in camden , arguing that formed in camden, arguing that formed in camden, arguing that women were on a urinary leash. that's what they talked about, because you basically weren't able to leave the house for extended periods of time because there was nowhere for you to go to the toilet. and so it has , you know, public toilets it has, you know, public toilets actually have quite an interesting progressive social history that a lot of them started opening after women were getting more involved in public life through work in world war |, life through work in world war i, and it became more normalised and that sort of boomed in terms of public infrastructure , and of public infrastructure, and it's really tapering off now. pubuc it's really tapering off now. public lives are closing all over the place. in the royal parks, you have to have a contactless card to go to the toilet. they don't even take 20 peas anymore. so it's i think it's a really big issue because it's a really big issue because it means making public spaces more accessible. we want more people to be out in the community. we want more people to be out in parks. you know, having a good time, feeling relaxed and particularly for old people, this stops them from

doing that. >> what do you think to this ? >> what do you think to this? >> what do you think to this? >> i don't think an enormous amount, but i suppose i ought to declare an interest 61 year old bloke. but i remember when our children were young, it used to be quite a big thing then, in that, you know, if nature struck, then, it did need to find a place. but we used to go into a pub or a caf and, buy something and then use their loos, i don't know. i mean, it's where the old spend a penny comes from, and isn't it in that expression that you really did have to spend a penny? now you can't. you can't even spend 20 pennies. >> but i asked someone today, use your plastic card. apparently i asked someone today because i was debating whether or not to cover this story, and i said to someone, but why? if you needed to go to toilet, why wouldn't you just go to a cafe or a restaurant similar to what you've just said? and they said, well, michele, a lot of people in this society are well mannered and they don't feel that they can go into to a cafe or a bar or whatever and use their facilities if they're not customers of said facilities. >> well, perhaps my wife and i were extremely rude , i don't were extremely rude, i don't know, but i think we used to do it in a in a reasonably polite

way. >> but it just it should be part of public infrastructure. it's a it's a lot to get too graphic about it. it's a human need that we all have. and i think that we, you know, it's to come back to the sort of lockdown point we had this period of horrendous anti—social, you know, tension and enforced anti—social ability. and we sort of i think, i think a lot of us, particularly on this channel, realise the importance of social life, public life, anything that facilitates that and makes that eafien facilitates that and makes that easier, particularly for intergenerational mixing . you intergenerational mixing. you want to you don't just want parks to be the places of mums and toddlers or young people. you want it to be all kinds of people. and if it's particularly for elderly people, if having a few extra toilets is what's going to make the difference, which i think actually for a lot of people, it would then build them. >> some of them got quite high tech, so tight. >> do you remember those self—clean ones? they used to alarm me slightly dreadful. >> they used to. you were worried about that. >> and the funny, one of the funniest things i ever saw was john prescott on a train. when they brought in those , the ones they brought in those, the ones with the sliding doors, and prescott was desperate to go and he couldn't work out which

button to press to open it . and button to press to open it. and someone had to tell him, it was deputy prime minister at the time, and he couldn't operate an electric door, i have frequent nightmares about train toilets, you know, the ones. >> and you have to wait for the doon >> and you have to wait for the door. it has to slide. that's the one. you have to wait for it to go. >> oh two jags was absolutely hit them scratching his head. >> and i always think about george michael when i think about public toilets as well which is not how about john gielgud . very good image. no, gielgud. very good image. no, i actually don't spend toilets in hampstead . hampstead. >> a lovely actually, i don't spend much time thinking about pubuc spend much time thinking about public toilets, i must confess. >> but many people are getting such.it >> but many people are getting such. it can't be right that you've got elderly people in society that are doing things like stopping drinking . if you like stopping drinking. if you believe that two hours, if you believe that two hours, if you believe that, why would you lie about not drinking before you go to. >> no, i think that may be wales senior forum trying to get themselves into the papers talk to talk. >> there's a lot of, you know, older guys i know who do do that. who because they've got

wellness issues with their prostate or whatever. i know it's something that people often feel embarrassed talking about. they shouldn't that they go without. and that's that's not right. you know, it's just pubuc right. you know, it's just public convenience is meant to be a social issue. and why not? i think that it would be if it makes life more comfortable for people. we sort of have this interesting that public spaces at the moment are often about making life more difficult, whether it's sort of rainbow zebra crossings that freak out guide dogs or whatever. there's the idea of having accessible , the idea of having accessible, open and proper functioning pubuc open and proper functioning public spaces sort of going out. >> well, there you go. >> well, there you go. >> how important are public toilets to you have inadvertently opened up a can of worms. i'm gonna write a book on this. you're all getting in touch with me, and you're rating the book. you're all telling me the book. you're all telling me the best and the worst of public toilets. apparently, i need to avoid them at stansted airport, adrian has told me, talk. he. apparently they're not very good. some people saying that there's none at all on the harbour. apparently, leeds have a good selection of them. i'm not sure what this is for a swim, yeah, well, there you go . swim, yeah, well, there you go. but dave says i'm incontinent and i'm practically a prisoner

in my own home. this is a very important issue. he says . so important issue. he says. so there you go. but for now, that's all i've got time for. ella. quentin. thank you. thank you. at home, don't go anywhere, not even to the toilet. because nigel farage is up next and you don't want to miss him. see you at. see you later. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update. it will stay dry, but it will be quite a cold night. tonight and throughout tomorrow the best of the sunshine will be across north and western areas once again. that's because high pressure is dominating over here. meanwhile, to the east of the uk we've got low pressure and this weather front that's brought cloudier skies throughout this afternoon to the southeast. that should clear away overnight, though , and away overnight, though, and we'll be left with this northerly wind that will bring a cold feel to coastal areas through wednesday, but also a few showers overnight. tonight should be fairly light and mainly just restrict coastal areas further north and west, though clear and dry and quite

cold. by tomorrow we could be down as low as minus three or four for some scottish glens, but the frost should be fairly patchy and should melt away fairly quickly as well. then we'll be left with a dry and bright day for many western areas of the uk in the east, though, with this northerly wind that's always going to drag in a bit more in the way of cloud, and that risk of showers will continue into wednesday afternoon. we'll feel a little bit brighter, though than today as the cloud will be a bit higher and then the best of the sunshine could see highs of 15 or 16 degrees. another cold night to come on wednesday night. so a cold start on thursday. and then this area of low pressure in the north sea will bring this band of rain and cloud across northern areas of england, southern scotland, through thursday should be drier and brighter in the south, but then friday and saturday look that much more unsettled. however, notice temperatures will start to rise by saturday. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers as sponsors of weather on

weather >> good evening. within hours of the rwanda bill passing, five migrants die in the english channel. and yet the french navy continue to escort the boat over . it really beggars belief. rishi sunak in poland today tells us that defence spending will increase to 2.5% of gdp. all of which rather proves my point of last night that an early general election is now favourite, and the british medical association warns that more doctors will go abroad . more doctors will go abroad. lord. but surely if we're spending huge amounts of public money training doctors, surgeons, consultants, shouldn't they actually be made to stay in this country indentured for a few years? i'll debate that with

some doctors who may disagree .