of arrest. d0 of arrest. do you agree with that? does it fly in the face of innocent until proven guilty? also school support staff have walked out over issues surrounding equal pay for men and women. is it really as simple as just women being paid less than men for the same job? also, rainbow lanyards be gone, says esther mcvey, the minister for common sense, as she bans them from the civil service. she is also clamping down on equality, diversion and inclusion roles. is this basic common sense or not? and what on earth do we do about anti—serb martial kids? their blights the

lives of many, but when everything else fails, do you think that finding them is the answer? and a new portrait of our king has been unveiled? trust me, you won't want to miss it . we'll get stuck into all of it. we'll get stuck into all of that and more. but before we do, let's cross live for tonight's 6:00 news. michelle, thank you and good evening. >> the top stories from the gb newsroom . a major manhunt is newsroom. a major manhunt is underway in france after two prison guards were shot dead and three others seriously injured dunng three others seriously injured during an ambush on a prison convoy. vehicles were rammed tollbooths on a motorway at anchorvale in the northwest of the country . anchorvale in the northwest of the country. images on social media showed at least two men in balaclavas carrying rifles near an suv that was in flames. the car appeared to have been rammed

into the front of the prison van. local media is naming the suspect as mohammed amara, who's 30 and reportedly has ties to powerful gangs in the city of marseille . in georgia, huge marseille. in georgia, huge numbers of riot police have now broken up. crowds of protesters who believe their nation is on a path to dictatorship . path to dictatorship. demonstrators broke through the barriers outside the parliament building, where a controversial law has been passed. the foreign agents bill puts limits on media and non—governmental organisations, which receive at least a fifth of their funding from abroad . these are live from abroad. these are live scenes from tbilisi, where crowds are still gathered outside after clashes with officers. critics are calling it the russian law and think it will damage aspirations to join the eu. however, georgia's government insists it's needed to promote transparency in the united states. house speaker mike johnson stood silently beside donald trump outside court this afternoon as the

so—called hush money trial continues. he's the most senior member of the republican party to appear with mr trump during the case. the former president is accused of trying to cover up a payment to former adult film star stormy daniels to boost his 2016 election campaign. speaking to crowds outside the court, mr trump criticised the case. the prosecutor and the judge. >> the gag order has to come off. so when you ask me a question about the people that we're talking about, i'm not allowed to answer . there's never allowed to answer. there's never been anything like this in the history of our country. it's a scam. it's election interfere at a level that's never taken place before . before. >> a home office minister says the good friday agreement should not be read so creatively as to cover migration issues. it's after a judge at belfast high court ruled that parts of the government's illegal migration act should not be applied in northern ireland. responding to an urgent question from the dup, tom pursglove said the

government intends to appeal against the court's judgement and would not be deterred from its rwanda plan . in other news, its rwanda plan. in other news, the families of three people stabbed to death in nottingham are demanding the killer is never released. after the court of appeal ruled his sentence won't be changed. valdo calocane killed barnaby webber , grace killed barnaby webber, grace o'malley kumar and ian coates last year . the 32 year old, who last year. the 32 year old, who suffers from paranoid schizophrenia , was given an schizophrenia, was given an indefinite hospital order. the bank of england says there's some way to go getting inflation down after the latest wage growth. data from the ons shows wages in the first three months of the year were unchanged at 6, outstripping cost of living increases . meanwhile, the rate increases. meanwhile, the rate of unemployment is at its highest level for nearly a year. there were 26,000 fewer job vacancies in the three months to april. while the number of people in work dropped by 85,000. the prime minister is calling on shoppers to back

british produce as he hosts the second farm to fork summit at downing street. labour says the conservatives have driven farmers to breaking point and have pledged a new deal they say will put money back into their pockets. but rishi sunak told members of the food industry that britain must reduce its reliance on fruit and vegetables from overseas . from overseas. >> we are going to stick to our plan, supporting you to keep creating great jobs across the united kingdom and keep making the food that we know and love so dearly , and specifically to so dearly, and specifically to our british farmers. i do want to say this we are with you . to say this we are with you. >> and finally, the first official painted portrait of the king since his coronation has been unveiled at buckingham palace. the oil on canvas shows his majesty in the uniform of the welsh guards, of which he was made regimental colonel in 1975. the portrait by british artist jonathan yeo was commissioned in 2020 to celebrate the then prince of wales's 50 years as a member of

the drapers company. in 2022. in the drapers company. in 2022. in the new portrait, the king is depicted sword in hand with a butterfly landing on his shoulder. for the latest story, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen, or go to gb news. com slash alerts. now back to michelle. >> thank you very much for that , >> thank you very much for that, tatiana. i am michelle dewberry and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight alongside my panel. the labour candidate for central suffolk and north ipswich, kevin craig, and the conservative peer in the house of lords, sean bailey . good evening gentlemen. bailey. good evening gentlemen. posh new title for you there. evening exciting times here, also, you know the drill . it's also, you know the drill. it's not just about us three. it's very much about you guys at home as well. what's on your mind tonight? you can get in touch with me all the usual ways. you can email gbviews@gbnews.com, or you can go to the website gbnews.com/yoursay and talk to

me there. or of course you can x or tweet me. did you just see that in the headlines? of course i'm referring to this official portrait of king charles. i'll get that back up again. if you've only just tuned in. hum. you know, sometimes when your mum tells you if you can't say anything nice, say nothing at all, i shall hand over then to sean bailey . what do you make of this? >> i really liked it. it's a little bit red, but other than that, i really liked it. i thought it was a nice sort of artistic interpretation of a very proud uniform. that uniform has a lot of history. and the men who've worn it in the past will be very pleased to see it in a portrait on the king. >> absolutely right. really. jonathan yeo is a brilliant portrait painter, one of the best british artists in generations. >> maybe i need to give my glasses a wipe, but to me , i glasses a wipe, but to me, i think it's absolutely ridiculous. i think it looks like it's. maybe i'm just not very sophisticated when it comes to interpreting art, but it's

like, to me, it looks like he's smeared in blood . smeared in blood. >> but, but, but your your reaction shows you that it's a successful picture. art is meant to generate conversation. it's meant to generate opinions . and meant to generate opinions. and that's certainly got a rise out of you. and i really do think it's quite striking. and you've got to imagine that in an enormous room next to hundreds of other bits of art, what's going to stick out? it'd probably be that, yeah, let's hope that the king doesn't do what churchill did when he didn't like one of those pictures. >> he went and bought it and then stuck a knife through it. so. >> well, let's hope actually, it doesn't do what one of those banks's did and halfway through the auction get shredded, do you remember that one? yeah, it got shredded. and then actually, ironically, it was worth even more when it was part shredded. do you remember that one? anyway, you know what? tell me what you think, to that artwork. maybe i'm just being an unsophisticated kid. so and so. i'd love to know what he actually thinks to it, because obviously you've got to put a polite face on, haven't you? you've got to go. yeah it's like really amazing. yeah. whereas inside, i bet you're probably going like, what on earth is

that really, anyway, let me know your thoughts. let's talk about more serious matters though. this of course was being voted on last night whilst we was on air, and it was all about the issue of at what point should an mp basically be essentially banned from attending parliament if that person is accused of being either a rapist or serious sexual violence? and there was kind of some debate about whether or not it should be at the point of being charged or whether or not it was at the point of being arrested. well of course, the vote passed by one vote. i have to say . and it will vote. i have to say. and it will now then be the case that if you are arrested for rape or sexual violence or sexual violence as an mp, you won't be allowed to attend parliament. do you think that's right? shaun bailey? >> i think there's two there's two angles to this, isn't it? because an arrest isn't a private affair and it will no longer be that for an mp, because now it will be public straight. if you get arrested and you can't go in. but having said that, if the person you're accused of that assault is also

in parliament, mps are the senior bodies in parliament and they should be asked to leave. while that's sorted out, i think it puts the police under a little bit extra pressure. a to be accurate with arresting and b to be quick with their investigations because that's often been the case. they've taken a very long time to investigate, so they'll have to do that quickly. but i was surprised that a how close the vote was, even though the government had given what looked like a reasonable sort of, you know, place to stand, you know, if, if charged. but mps were not having it at all, were they? >> well, many people have said, thank you, natalie elphicke because of course it passed by one vote. so many are saying that perhaps she was the deciding vote, which of course is quite interesting given that she was coming under scrutiny, apparently for, trying to defend her husband previously. anyway. kevin craig, what do you make to it? yeah >> and i think it was interesting that it passed by one vote. and i would broadly agree with shaun , and i think, agree with shaun, and i think, it's a reminder i mean, it was a very moving debate. i thought yesterday in parliament, it's a

reminder , michelle, of i think reminder, michelle, of i think what viewers and listeners will be shocked by is just how many mps are currently under investigation for mr viner's misdemeanours of various natures. you know, you're up, you're talking up to 10% and you see, are we because i've heard this 10% figure banded around today , the likes of carol today, the likes of carol vorderman for example, saying that. >> but then i've also seen a great number of people disputing that figure. and i was trying to find out what the actual figure is, and it's proven quite difficult. >> well, i think there is a level of opaqueness, if you like, around some of this, but picking up on sean's interesting point about the rights of mps who are charged with things, i noficed who are charged with things, i noticed there are safeguards in this vote so that any investigation or any decision to exclude would remain confidential , and exclude would remain confidential, and an exclude would remain confidential , and an excluded mp confidential, and an excluded mp could still apply for a proxy vote, meaning another mp could cast a vote on their behalf. because i think the bigger thing underpinning all this, which was why i was so moved by what jess phillips mp said, is that not

enough , accusations of rape lead enough, accusations of rape lead to charges? >> well, let's look at what jess phillips says. you've teed it up nicely for me. in case you're not familiar with it, watch today. >> just today, just on this one day, i've spoken to two women who were raped by members of this parliament, but two just today. that's a fairly standard day for me. and i noticed that these are not the people who've so far been mentioned much today, and some of them told me what they wanted me to say today, and so i will just read out, actually, some of what they sent to me. so it to the exclusion at the point of charge sends a clear message to victims that not only will we not investigate unless a victim goes to the police, but we will not act unless their charge, which happensin act unless their charge, which happens in less than 1% of cases

. so what's the point with essentially what this victim said to me ? said to me? >> and she got celebrated a lot for saying that. yeah i mean, the stats that she mentioned sounds a bit odd to me, to women , raped that day by members of that parliament. she said. that was a fairly standard day . was a fairly standard day. >> i mean, she wasn't saying that happened yesterday. she's saying that that she happened to speak yesterday to two women who'd been raped by mps. >> but then she said that was a fairly standard day. what it's a fairly standard day. what it's a fairly standard day that she speaks to two women that have been raped by members of parliament, that. >> yeah, i didn't take it from that. but i mean, what i think the point i would still maintain is that there is not enough, not enough rape accusations lead to charges, but this is a thing. >> so jess phillips's comments , >> so jess phillips's comments, if you take them for what? she's trying to really add some pressure to what is a horrible situation for people, says women who've been raped and men too.

and they do deserve justice and they deserve protection while you're looking for that justice. but there is another side of that coin. if you make an accusation against someone and they're arrested, what if they are innocent? you've you've devastated the life . that person devastated the life. that person who may have to go home and look their daughter in the eye, they're certainly going have to look at the constituents in the eye when all of the when the speculation starts, because they've been banned from parliament and there's a balance to be trod there. jess phillips's point, and i think she's largely right, is that we need to lean towards a victim. but we must be careful about how we treat people who are innocent until proven guilty, because thatis until proven guilty, because that is the basic tenet of our law. and i and mps are in the limelight in a way most people are not, and vexatious claims could be something they'd have to deal with in a level that other people would not as well. >> jess phillips actually responded to that point, and she was saying, it's actually very difficult to be arrested for something like this. and she was saying vexatious claims. she didn't really think that that would be too much of a problem. but listen to the tory mp miriam cates. she was responding to this issue as well. today on gb news. >> is this not being found

guilty? being charged is still not being found guilty, but i think there are more arguments for safety when somebody is charged with an offence . but i charged with an offence. but i think we have to recognise that parliament is not an ordinary workplace. there are only 650 mps and we don't represent ourselves, we represent our constituents. and if an mp is banned from the premises, that's 100,000 people who are not being represented. we should be speaking up for the rights of mps and their constituents in ten, 20, 30 years time and we should be taking decisions that will encourage good people to come into parliament and want to be in parliament. and i'm afraid last night we did the opposite. >> i've been asking people on twitter what do you think? where do you think is the right, point in the process to be potentially suspended? and i gave you four opfions suspended? and i gave you four options at the point of allegation, the point of arrest, the point of charge, or the point of conviction . i've got to point of conviction. i've got to say, by a very small amount, i grant you most most of you at the moment are saying it should be at the point of conviction .

be at the point of conviction. 35% of you saying that so far, 32% of you are saying it should be at the point of charge . now, be at the point of charge. now, i know you're saying, by the way, you can keep voting in that i'm not going to close it for another kind of half an hour so you can get your thoughts coming in. and i know you said there'll be an element of confidentiality to this, but unless you're blind, you're probably going to nofice blind, you're probably going to notice that one of your colleagues is no longer there. and people gossip. that's just a fact, right? so if you are indeed suspended, then that confidentiality clause is irrelevant. really? yeah. >> i mean , i take your point, >> i mean, i take your point, but i think the bigger issue is the way that victims of, of sexual crime, whether it's in parliament or in other situations, are not listened to. the numbers of cases that don't lead to convictions. i do agree with your inference. it's finely balanced, but i think i am really glad that this vote has gone through by one, because again , if there's a side i have again, if there's a side i have to come down on, it is the side that we need to listen more in to, to victims . and as sean said

to, to victims. and as sean said in parliament, where somebody who's making this accusation may have to see that person day in, day out, but i take it it's not without complication. and if there was an issue of vexatious, fabricated accusation, that is thatis fabricated accusation, that is that is difficult. >> well, yeah, because it would be incredibly and one of the reasons, just to be clear, because often we hear about this low conviction rate, for crimes such as rape and all the rest of it. and believe you me, i am firmly in the side of the victims getting justice. i passionately believe that nobody has got the right to abuse a woman or a man in any way, especially on their physicality. without their consent. i think it's appalling and i want people to be brought to justice. but the fact of the matter is, notwithstanding that it's very difficult to prove these allegations because ultimately, very often it comes down to, let's just say a man and a woman in a closed private space, and often it will be that person's word against that person's word. and it's very, very hard.

clearly, given the statistics to convict. >> but the problem with this is the court of public opinion, which is very important to an mp because that's how they retain their position or not, will absolutely convict them every time. and when you when you're your survey wants to do the point of charge, let's say, because i think people are more comfortable with that because they feel like the police would have sought very good evidence to do that. jess phillipss point, though, is there's a lack of justice. she feels that 1% figure shows that more people get away with it than get caught. the public are like, well, we need more evidence before we condemn someone. and putting it at the point of charge and let's be clear, if you're an mp and you go missing from parliament, right, you that speculation will turn into a problem for you. i mean, you stub your toe, you're at home. they think you got suspended for a sexual offence. that's how social media works, unfortunately. and there's a balance to be created there . i balance to be created there. i still i still think the public are in the space where they think you are guilty. you are innocent . you are innocent until

innocent. you are innocent until you're proven guilty. and this might suggest something different. >> do you still think that, herm, that you're innocent until proven guilty, john says michelle, look, it's becoming easier and easier to try and ruin a man's life in the uk without any evidence, ronald says what would happen to the accuserif says what would happen to the accuser if the accusation was proved to be false? i guess the question back to you, then, ronald, is what do we mean by false? because as we're saying, just because someone doesn't perhaps then get charged, let alone convicted of those kind of offences, doesn't necessarily mean that they haven't done it. this is really tricky. how do you prove two people in a private space? nobody else around this person's word against this person's word. it's very, very tricky to get that conviction . conviction. >> yes, yes. »- >> yes, yes. >> but i just still think that not enough is done for victims of rape. and i think, you know , of rape. and i think, you know, until somebody is convicted, they're not convicted , but i'm

they're not convicted, but i'm not i'm not saying it's not tricky, but i think , you know tricky, but i think, you know what? just. jess phillips said yesterday i was very persuaded by there is a bigger thing. mps and parliament still just have to clean up its act. and i think that, you know, there is a dispute, you know, that's and people across all sides of the spectrum agree on that. and, and you know, i remember in recent years where some mps have been wrongly accused of stuff. i remember liz truss really stitched up one of her own mps and ruined his ministerial career for a while. so it does work all ways. but generally people want to see parliament cleaned up a bit. >> i completely do agree with that. lots of you getting in touch and saying it should. absolutely. michelle only be at the point of conviction. so if you're one of those people, perfectly valid opinion. but let me put this back to you if you think it is only at the point of conviction. now that we've just gone through the fact that those convictions are incredibly rare and incredibly hard to get, do you think it is okay if you were the victim, then perhaps that you'd been raped, that the person just got off with it and

nothing happened? would you be okay with that? david says if an mp is arrested, his salary should essentially be arrested. at the same time, he says, most people will be sacked on the spot , he says, but not the spot, he says, but not the elites. there seems to be different rules for the privilege. but anne says michelle innocent until proven guilty always. otherwise, how on earth would you prevent malicious accusations? there you go. let you ponder it, in the brick. when i come back from the break, though, i want to talk to you. have you seen the latest strike? now? you've seen support staff at schools going on strike over equal pay. is this all just as simple as men being paid more than women? or is it a little bit more complicated than that? i'll see you in two.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00. the labour candidate for central suffolk and north ipswich, kevin craig. alongside me is the conservative

peerin alongside me is the conservative peer in the house of lords, sean bailey. you really are, divided about that previous conversation at home about the point of which an mp should be essentially banned from going into parliament when they're accused of something really serious, like rape. one of my viewers made a really interesting point about , you know, if you are in made a really interesting point about, you know, if you are in a situation because let's be honest, right. politics is pretty damn nasty, on more than, infrequent occasions. so if someone wanted to scupper, i don't know , the potential don't know, the potential chances of a candidate at a next election or someone that they just, i don't know, disliked from another party or whatever , from another party or whatever, then, making those allegations could perhaps be a way of doing it. but what if someone's just asking me? well, what then should happen if you make these allegations and they're not true, what then would happen to that person? and this is that age old debate about anonymity . age old debate about anonymity. and should you have anonymity if you're accused of something , you're accused of something, look for an mp or anyone in pubuc look for an mp or anyone in public life. >> it probably isn't that simple . so someone makes an accusation against you, it gets disproved.

do you want to prolong the pain by going after them? you'll then be seen as a bully. potentially. you'll then be seen as this big man. if it's a man versus a woman, you know, pursuing someone, you probably want to do it. and of course, your family will probably just want the pain to go away. what would be interesting is what does the law say about that? what are the actual figures for? do people have these cases proved and does the judiciary go after them? because if only 1% of rape cases are proven, it would be a surprise to me if any significant percentage larger was proven that the cases were false. but it happens. a man, you hear people say it's happened to them. so let's see what the what the police want to do about it and more importantly, the crown prosecution service. >> yeah. and i guess, it's, you know, everyone, i think everyone comes out with a good intentions, don't they? which is ultimately, you do not want wrong'uns wandering among parliament. that is, of course, i would argue, the central theme and desire of everybody. but how you get to that is a completely, issue that's open for debate. certainly among you guys at

home. let me ask you this then, equal pay . surely that was equal pay. surely that was sorted out a long time ago, wasn't it , it's unlawful to sorted out a long time ago, wasn't it, it's unlawful to pay a man and a woman of equal kind of talents and merits doing the same job at the same level differently. you can't do that . differently. you can't do that. so what's going on then? because we've got instances such as birmingham city council. i mean, they've got themselves, you know, into an absolute mess when it comes to equal pay stuff. and now you've seen support staff walking out of 35 schools, this is, people like teaching assistants , catering staff and assistants, catering staff and other workers. and it's all aboutin other workers. and it's all about in fact, actually, let me let me throw it open to you. you are a former councillor yourself, not at birmingham, but more broadly. what do you think is going on in some of these cases? >> well, let me just say, michel, the reason why i was really glad you focused on this story today was a number of reasons. i am a gmb member, as was my mother, which is a union, by the way, that's focused on this. >> sorry. >> sorry. >> yeah, my mum was also she was a dinner lady and the gmb were

absolute brilliant in representing her for various issues during her life. now i am i mean this is the latest episode in birmingham council who are in a real pickle. and it's happened across administrations of different political colours, they do need to sort the claim out . the to sort the claim out. the council says that they are trying, the gmb , they are very trying, the gmb, they are very energetic in how they represent their members . it won't have their members. it won't have gone down well that they took the action around sats because they think that. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> did think that that's a terrible that's the that's the that's the issue here. >> then you're punishing the kids, right. >> you're punishing the kids. well, the kids are suffering and the parents is as you will find out in the future. >> michelle. i can't remember how old sean's kids are, but sats is a time of a lot of stress, so that that's the challenge here, and i'm hoping that that will be, you know , that that will be, you know, this won't be happening again because, you know, it doesn't help pupils and their parents, but the union, they need to get this rectified.

>> let's listen to someone from the gmb union then seen as again, you teed up, you're like my left hand man. >> you know, told me to do it. >> you know, told me to do it. >> you know, told me to do it. >> you like my foil, i love it. come on then, let's have a look. >> gmb union women in birmingham city council have been fighting for equal pay for decades, and they are owed thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of pounds of stolen wages . and they're out of stolen wages. and they're out because they've had enough. it's time for the council to take this seriously and pay back those stolen wages. some of these workers lodged their last wave of equal pay claims back in 2021. so this is not overnight. this campaign has been building for now years . and it's not just for now years. and it's not just the campaign that's been building, it's the liabilities that the council owes that's been building. and that's why the figures are now in excess of £100 million that are owed court blaming that little lad. >> there . he wasn't he wasn't >> there. he wasn't he wasn't resting at all. did he see him? he made me dizzy. anyway. sean, your thoughts. >> here's two things. firstly, this is a council that's in a lot of trouble. but the biggest version of this looks at £760 million. that will absolutely wipe them out. there's no chance they could raise that money. so

they're going to have to get into a negotiation. this is going to surprise you. what i say i actually think the gmb are right and the right people to deal with this, because i wonder if this is as much about unequal pay if this is as much about unequal pay as it is low pay. i think a lot of what's gone on here, people have been paid a very low level, and that's probably what sparked. i think actually we do a lot. we should we should be paid more. i think the problem you're going to see here, in one sense it should be simple. it's illegal to pay a woman and a man a different a different sum for the same job. and if they have done that, the gmb will land them in court and then they will lose permanently. but i think at this point in time they should be leaning on the gmb actually as a supportive friend, to help them solve this, because that lady in the vie talked about 100 million. the council have a better chance of dealing with that than they do this. 760 million. >> yeah. so i do want to just, be a bit clear on this because what we're not talking about a man, i was going to say a man and a lady and a woman dinner lady. but that's not make no

sense. although in this day and age, never say never. but anyway, we're not talking about, like, two dinner people or whatever one's a man and one's a woman being paid differently. what we're talking about here is that in roles that are traditionally female orientated. so your dinner ladies, your cleaners, those kind of things. and then when you then compare that to, i don't know, like your road sweeping your dustbin men. yeah. those kind of things. what they're arguing is that those roles of equal value where essentially remunerated differently. now to me that is slightly different, because if you had a dinner man and a dinner woman. yeah, that's right. you're not paying them differently. so now what we're trying to do is we're trying to look at these two separate roles and what we're trying to say is the value of the role is equal, and therefore the salary should be equal. i do have to say, though, that if a woman decided to be a dos, a dos man, or you know what i mean, people are going to write in and say, you know what i mean? a dos, a refuge collector. then that woman could apply for that job, and she would get that pay, and and she would get that pay, and a man could apply to be a school

chef, and he would get that pay. so i suppose to me it's not necessarily an equal pay thing. it's about how do we value roles in society and i do find it quite interesting that we place such low value on roles such as care. and i'm not talking about schools, by the way. i'm talking about any kind of caring in this, in this country, we don't seem to pay nursery staff, care workers, those kind of people . why? >> well, i think your your comparison about the pay rates for, you know, ta's catering staff versus other roles traditionally undertaken by men does bring to the fore the point that often there were roles, whether in local authorities or or companies, where the roles that were done more often by women were paid less, you know, and that it's not that long ago where women didn't have the vote, they weren't in the workforce. so it's society takes time to catch up. and i think there's some hangovers from that. >> so are you suggesting that that, that, role is paid less specifically because it's a

woman doing it? because if a man was doing that job, he'd be on the same wage as that woman. so let's be clear about that. >> well, you know, that's where we could probably have a more of a ding dong debate, you know. but i think i think over time, there were roles where, you know, women were paid less, but it it's not that simple, isn't it? >> it.7 >> so it? >> so and the reason i talk about gmb having to think of it because they have members all over the place, dustman dinner ladies, dinner men, whatever it is. but let's be clear, if you want what makes a role of any value, it's economic impact. it's physicality. being a binman right? you're outside, it's cold. the bins are heavy. it's dangerous. you have to do training, you know, so you don't get sucked up in a bin machine. there's all manner of things that make you value a job differently. some jobs have shift patterns. so a bin man is far more, unsociable hours than maybe being a dinner man, as it were. the point is, the gmb, can. spain looked good when they said it's women being robbed of salary. actually it's job value. and then and then there are equations. there's an opinion there as to what's valuable or

not. if the bin men go missing, what impact does it have if a if a dinner man or lady goes missing, what impact does it have? all of these things need to be taken into account. and the traditional place of a role is almost of , of the time of the is almost of, of the time of the time. and if you're going to change that, fine. but the finances have to change with it. >> but then also be clear, because if you take away that's all well and good for like band, what i would call it almost like a bandage roll. but if you take any of the job where there isn't really bands or if there are bands, they're not really transparent. you do often end up in a situation where a man will be paid more than a woman. >> traditionally that's been the case, but banding a role helps you. >> why do you think that is? then go back. and you said traditionally why? >> i think it's been two things. traditionally, we've paid less for care because we had a society that's very patriarchal and families care. no no no no no no no. because we had a society that delivered a lot of its care for its family structure. so therefore care in a professional situation was downgraded because most of it came from elsewhere. your family

didn't do the admin for tesco's, tesco's had to pay for that so they would pay more. that's, that's why. the point being though, if you look particularly at this case, you are now asking people to judge roles against each other. good luck with that because you'll make these people happy when you lift dinner. ladies up to bin men, right. bin men are going to say, right, we want to be lifted up the bankers because that's how we value ourselves. this is a never ending, spiral. and someone like the gmb, who has members all over the place, is going to have a tough time equalising all of their members. >> but there have been successful. they took this, to one of the, i think it was the supreme court. they took it to one of the highest courts. they won, appeals against these councils. and one of the arguments from the union is that actually the council has been too slow, essentially, to pay out some women take move it away from the band, move it into the like the offices or whatever. some people might say, well, actually we need to negotiate better. >> and i think that's a really interesting point because and just go back to your previous question, why has this happened in corporate life? i think, you know, women have historically

been paid less than men for the same jobs. >> why? >> why? >> well, i think the answer was that in the past, business was a male dominated thing. right? the number of women in senior roles in corporations, in public bodies was less and i think historically, women , have found historically, women, have found it more difficult, for whatever reason, to assert themselves, ask for pay rises. there's this data out there . there was data out there. there was certainly historically how men were, apparently more assertive in asking for salary rises. i mean, that's just i think there is data out there. i think it's changing. and the pay gap is definitely the data says it's been closing in business since 97. we're not there yet, but it's getting there. >> but it's also also men were in professions that had much more union representation as well. and that made that made a strong difference. >> true. but also as well sometimes not as simple as man and woman. it can be sometimes masculine traits and feminine traits. can't say if you are, i don't know. you have that whole

phrase about women a lot of women are often more agreeable than a lot of men. that doesn't necessarily apply to me. i must be honest, but often no, you're very agreeable. often women do have that, is there something in that? i don't know? get in touch and let me know. coming up after the break. lots. i want to talk to you about esther mcvey, the minister for common sense. is she speaking common sense or is she speaking common sense or is she drink ing the gb news kool—aid? that's what one of my panel thinks. also, you didn't think i was going to mention that. also, unruly anti—social kids. what do we do about them

? hi there. i'm michelle dewberry and with you till 7:00, alongside the labour candidate for central suffolk and north ipswich, kevin craig, and the conservative peer in the house of lords, sean bailey. when it comes to pay , by the way, one of comes to pay, by the way, one of the really interesting aspects is pay transparency . how is pay transparency. how transparent would you be willing to be, to try and find out

whether or not you earn the same as other people in your organisation, if indeed that was important to you, because historically, many of us were quite kind of private about what we earn, aren't we, michael says michelle, equal pay arguments being framed as man versus woman. but it isn't. it's simply about people wanting the same pay about people wanting the same pay as another employee who does a different job, one of these views as well, tracey says. michelle, historically, women have accepted lower pay because they weren't the main breadwinners , and as a second breadwinners, and as a second income, they were perhaps willing to accept reasonable pay- willing to accept reasonable pay. even, she says. if it wasn't equal , equal pay for wasn't equal, equal pay for equal work, says john. and he says, i mean equal with no discrimination. excuses for genden discrimination. excuses for gender. well, there you go, let's talk basic common sense, shall we? the minister for common sense, esther mcvey, says she's going to crack down on diversity initiatives. it's all about this diversity and equality and inclusion . she equality and inclusion. she wants to ban external consultancy roles. also, she

wants to scrap the wearing of rainbow lanyards . as you told rainbow lanyards. as you told one of my producers earlier that you thought she was drinking the gb news kool—aid. what do you mean? i bet you thought i wasn't going to say that, didn't you? what do you mean by that? well is this really. >> is this all we've got for government ministers to get aerated about? >> lanyard colours? is that it? >> lanyard colours? is that it? >> yeah. but don't you think it's important that, when i said those remarks about the gb news kool—aid, then what i'm referring to is. >> and she used to work on it, didn't she? until recently? she did. she still does or stopped. >> i don't think so. >> i don't think so. >> so , i just don't think for >> so, i just don't think for the government of our country, the government of our country, the lanyard needs and what's on them is a priority. i think the economy, nhs , crime, the economy, nhs, crime, the environment, schools, mortgage rises, but that's someone else's remit. >> no, no, no, that's not her. >> no. because why i said kool—aid is that gb news and i come, you know, the amount of stick i get from coming on here

right. and i say i come on because a lot of people of all different politics watch this channelin different politics watch this channel in my view. and i think it's good to be in debate. but this channel does like to choose stories about wokeness , stories about wokeness, lanyards, the world's falling apart because of lgbt rights, blah, blah. and you know, it's ironic the toilets in here, you know, they're awful. why can't we get those toilets sorted out and have male female toilets ' 7 m. again? >> don't even get me started, rikki neave. i mean, look, so let me just respond to this kool—aid. let me just respond to this gb news kool—aid because i have got gb news mock and i am sipping the liquid within it. but i assure you, there is no such thing as gb news kool—aid. i honestly have never been rounded up by any of my bosses and told there's a topic. michelle, think about it. what we might be doing, though, is sipping the nectar of common sense. i mean, if you would like a sip , if you would like a sip a sip, if you would like a sip of this juicy goodness of common sense. i don't mind sharing it with you here, but i actually think and i applaud gb news. you might call it a kool—aid and

focusing on issues that don't matter. i think that some of the things that we talk about on this channel that don't get focused enough on, on other channels are absolutely key. so like what i would call things like what i would call things like the oversexualization of children, which is all to do with this absurd, diverse city and inclusion. you said, does it really matter if someone's got a lanyard that's wearing a rainbow? i would say yeah, because where do you draw the line? if you can wear your rainbow lanyard , can you wear rainbow lanyard, can you wear your palestinian one or your israeli one? can you wear i don't know, whatever, whatever you do to the detriment or to the potential exclusion of other people. i think it's an important matter. where are you on it? >> shaun bailey? i'll tell you why absolutely matters. >> because you had outside agencies take control of government policy. so you had stonewall writing policy for the education department that confused the whole country. the government was then under pressure because apparently he wasn't given a clear line. but stonewall were very clear about what they wanted to achieve. and actually, to my mind, it's subverted democracy in this country because nobody voted stonewall into that position of power. so actually, it is very,

very important. a lot a while ago, i was speaking to a muslim woman who was talking to me about being on, on, on, on gb news but she did say to me that she watched the home office run a campaign about the hijab, and she said, i happen to wear one. but she said her sister does not, and her sister didn't appreciate the government being involved in that conversation. they don't believe it's a space for the government and it certainly isn't a space i would add, for unelected officials to be pushing that, because, of course, in in the in the islamic community, they'll be very different views on how that's done. so actually those things come from which are from somewhere, which i think has been a real problem for, for, for the civil service. while estimate is completely right, we have activists, civil servants, which is it's an anathema to what the civil service is about. they are there to deliver a job. they are there to deliver a job. they are there to deliver a job. they are very neutral job. and that's why i think what she's talking about is important . talking about is important. very, very important. >> well, i respect your views on that, sean. i fundamentally disagree with you, but i respect your your opinion.

>> well, look at this. it's, time for a break. so i'm going to gently hand over the, liquid kool—aid. also known as common sense juice. i'm going to not spill a drop to kevin craig. he's going to swig it all down. goodness. only knows what it'll be like when we come back after the break. we shall wait and see. i want to talk to you about unruly kids and anti—social behaviour. what are we going to do about these kids? see you in two.

hi there. michelle dewberry with you till seven. labour candidate for central suffolk and north ipswich. kevin craig and the conservative peer in the house of lords. shaun bailey. he declined my juice. what can i say? i'll work on him. maybe next time. let's talk unruly behaviour , shall we? on our behaviour, shall we? on our streets. what do you actually do about it? so many people will have examples of anti—social behaviour. do you remember that whole as birthing many years ago

, a lot of those kids paraded it around like a badge of honour. they absolutely loved it in liverpool city council. now they reckon that they've got the answer. perhaps when all else has failed, fine. the children. is that going to work? finding these kids ? these kids? >> i think the first thing to say i was a youth worker for over 20 years, anti—social behaviour can be absolutely terrible and why i think it's grown over the last few years is because we've raised up a whole generation and all we ever say to them is about their rights, and we only talk to them about how they feel. a small example of this will be when you're on a train now on a bus, people just playing their phones loudly, and don't assume for a minute that somebody else might not want to hear their conversation or their music. it'sjust hear their conversation or their music. it's just a little indication of that. look, the finding of children is almost utterly useless because they don't have any money. and what's important with any sanction, it has to be realistic, because if it isn't, you drive the anti—social behaviour because they feel like they've got to wave it. but here's the thing. realistically, you're finding their parents now. the first thing you have to find is are

you finding a parent who can't cope or a parent who doesn't care? that's a very different group of people, because if you're finding parents who can't cope, you're making their situation worse. if you're finding parents who don't care, you might be at the beginning of turning their behaviour around and by extension, their children's behaviour around. but only if you can enforce some real pain. i used to live on an estate and we had some pretty outlandish anti—social behaviour. the only thing that got hold of it is when the resident landlord started evicting people. all of a sudden people took control of their children . now that was very children. now that was very extreme and it took a long time to get there. but what they showed was there is a consequence for your behaviour and that drove a change. >> yeah. i've got to say i feel sorry though, for the people that when those parents and families get evicted, all you're doing then is you're shoving that problem family on a different neighbourhood. kevin, where are you on it all? >> i mean, in theory, i support any, any, any tough measures because i share what sean said. i've always been i grew up with a lot of it on the estate where i grew up. i hate anti—social behaviour. i hate this

selfishness of any kind at all levels of society. it makes me really angry. i totally agree with, you know, these little, little behaviours which are selfish, you know, phones on trains, just litter, litter, all of it, you know? don't get me started. i mean, i, i hope that these measures have some impact. l, these measures have some impact. i, i do share the reservations about the ability to, to pay if people in these groups i like policies that are that are whether they're national, local level, some of the stuff in london aimed at prevention, you know, and working with the families that sean's talked about, you do have to be tough as well. you know, i think in society over recent decades , you society over recent decades, you know, we've lost a bit of values, you know, traditional british values. i think i read somewhere your grandparents , somewhere your grandparents, sean, served in the military. right. you know, these come down through our generations of people, as did my father in law, respect and thinking about others . and that's what i'm others. and that's what i'm interested in locally or nationally policies that bring that back. >> john, one of the viewers on the website says, bring back

borstal laws. >> i think borstals is a bit above the age of ten. i think we might be pushing our child cruelty thing there. but look, at some point i would make sure that the parents felt some pain if i had a magic wand. that the parents felt some pain if i had a magic wand . the thing if i had a magic wand. the thing i would start with is pre parenting . when you when you parenting. when you when you have a child in this country, people talk to you about babies. now, babies are hard work. they're tiresome. but what's really tough is children and teenagers and people should be preparing themselves to deal with their teenagers behaviour, and we'd have less of this. and i think that's something we could do in policy to talk about that. but right here, right now, this council has to do something . and this is a start. if only if it sends the message, they're not going to take it lying down. because the idea that because if you don't intervene, it builds and it builds and it builds and antisocial behaviour becomes crime very quickly. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and it's sorry, michelle, just to add to sean's point, the worst thing now is what is anti—social behaviour is amplified the impact of it on social media. you shared a clip

the last few days. some terrible stuff in woolwich. oh it was awful. so these things, you know, almost the effect of it is, is amplified. so i think like like sean said, i hope these measures in liverpool have some success. but and it has to be challenged. but it's going to take a long time to get where we need to. >> the video that kevin's talking about, if you don't follow my social media, it was this gang of kids trying to get this gang of kids trying to get this bag off this other kid, and one of them pulled out this knife. it is just appalling. and of course, you'll be familiar with that lady. 60 odd year old grandma. she got knifed, didn't she? because she wouldn't hand over her handbag. many people, they are often afraid of their own kids, aren't they, look, i was asking you , what do you was asking you, what do you think? when should you be banned from parliament on twitter again? lots of youth, 86.3. ultimately you want out. you said it should be on the point of conviction. 13% of you say it should be on the point of allegation. goodness me, i hope no one actually goes around accusing you of anything just because they don't like you. can you imagine it'd be an absolute

free for all? anyway, look, i've really enjoyed your company . really enjoyed your company. tougher punishments is what you guys want to stop unruly kids. but look, i'll be unruly with my timings if i don't pay attention. the show is over. thank you for your company. thank you for your company. thank you for your company. thank you at for home yours. farage up next night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hi there. welcome to the latest forecast from the met office for gb news. low pressure remains close to the uk for the next 24 hours and beyond that means further showers at times, but it's not going to be a complete washout. there will be some drier and sunnier interludes. some places will avoid the showers for long penods avoid the showers for long periods of time. that low pressure is sitting to the southwest. that's where we'll continue to see showers feeding into cornwall and devon overnight, but otherwise drying up nicely across northern ireland, wales into the midlands, southern england staying largely dry in the far northeast of scotland. in

between areas of cloud. some outbreaks of rain but some drier interludes as well. many places under the cloud staying at 12 to 13 celsius but cooler there as we begin the day for northern ireland. for southwest and west scotland , some decent sunny scotland, some decent sunny spells first thing and actually for many places it's a bright day. but there will be this zone of cloud and outbreaks of rain from east anglia into the east midlands, northern england, the far south of scotland, keeping temperatures suppressed and some low cloud hugging. the north sea coast of scotland and northern england. elsewhere, sunny spells and a few showers and it's a similar theme as we begin thursday . this zone of cloud thursday. this zone of cloud edges north into parts of northern england , southern northern england, southern scotland and then eventually northern ireland, either side of that, showers will develop the far north of scotland. the far south of england stays dry and sunny on thursday day. friday. further sunny. spells and showers. highs of 21 or 22. >> it looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> the migration advisory committee. tell the government that if the number of foreign students gets cut, some of our universities could collapse. but, hey, would that really matter? a big summit at downing street today on farming, where rishi sunak tells farmers we are on your side. but has that always been true of this government and have we now found a wonder drug that doesn't just deal with obesity, but actually could reduce heart disease as well? we'll discuss all of that and how much we trust big pharma and how much we trust big pharma and much, much more after the news with tatiana sanchez . news with tatiana sanchez. >> nigel, thank you very much.

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