water, an ocean of deep blue water. >> why are so many people seemingly getting weirder by the day? seemingly getting weirder by the day.7 and also, do you think there is really a clear blue ocean between the two main parties.7 because if you ask me, it's more like some kind of deflated paddling pool between them. also, the rich list is out . the top spot has a net worth of almost £14 billion. many people are saying it's immoral for people to have that much money. is it also , do you reckon money. is it also, do you reckon the uk should be accepting refugees from gaza? i can tell you my panel tonight, including professor matt goodwin, have very different opinions on that. also, the double child killer colin pitchfork er, he has lost his appeal for his parole heanng his appeal for his parole hearing to be held behind closed doors . good. shouldn't all doors. good. shouldn't all parole hearings be done in .

parole hearings be done in. public? that's all to come before 7:00. but first, let's cross live for tonight's latest news headlines . news headlines. >> very good evening to you. it's just after 6:00. i'm sam francis. a look at the headlines this hour . a teacher has been this hour. a teacher has been convicted of having sex with two schoolboys becoming pregnant by one of them. manchester crown court heard 30 year old rebekah jones was lonely and flattered by the teenager's attention. jurors were told today that she brought one of the boys, who can't be identified, a £350 gucci belt detective constable beth alexander said earlier that miss jones will be sentenced in july, is a sexual predator. the israeli military says it's recovered the bodies of three hostages from gaza. all of them had been attending the nova music festival in southern israel when it was attacked by hamas. among them was the german

israeli woman, 22 year old shani luke. a photograph photograph of her twisted body on the back of a pickup truck had circulated across the world following the 7th of october attacks. here, an asylum seeker who murdered a 70 year old man in what a judge described as a terrorist act, has been jailed for at least 44 years. 45 year old ahmed ali ali repeatedly stabbed terrence in hartlepool town centre last october, eight days after the hamas attacks in israel. during sentencing, the judge said his actions were in apparent revenge for the conflict in gaza . the for the conflict in gaza. the chancellor, jeremy hunt, has declined to give a cast iron guarantee of tax cuts, but insists the tax burden will go down under a future conservative government. he warns that labour will be forced to raise taxes to pay will be forced to raise taxes to pay for their spending pledges, as he reiterated his own commitment to eliminating national insurance . well, national insurance. well, speaking in london this morning,

the chancellor accused his shadow, rachel reeves, of resorting to playground politics with her criticism of the high levels of tax on uk households. it comes to labour policies on jobs, welfare reform and tax . jobs, welfare reform and tax. >> the difference, if they are elected, will be profound and damaging for every family in the country. labour like to criticise recent tax rises, thinking people don't know what caused them , the furlough caused them, the furlough scheme, the energy price guarantee and billions of pounds in cost of living support. but labour supported those policies, which is why it is playground politics to use those tax rises to distract debate from the biggest divide in british politics today. what happens to the tax burden next? jeremy hunt there. >> well, there are now 46 confirmed cases of cryptosporidium , according to cryptosporidium, according to health officials, after water suppuesin health officials, after water supplies in brixham in devon were contaminated. it means

cases of the diarrhoea inducing illness have more than doubled in less than 24 hours. 16,000 homes and businesses have been told that a parasite got into their water supplies after possible contamination from cow manure . two police officers, who manure. two police officers, who took a two hour meal break for a kebab on the night of the manchester arena attack, have been handed final written warnings today. their absence meant that there were no officers patrolling the area. when salman abedi made his final approach to the city room, where he then detonated his explosive, the police watchdog has also recommended that british transport police apologise to the victims of the families in the victims of the families in the us. world number one golfer scottie scheffler has been charged with multiple offences, court records show that scheffler had been booked on four charges, which included second degree assault of a police officer, the masters champion was handcuffed on his way to the pga championship this morning, but he was able to arrive on course in time to tee off in the second round of the

event. he's described his arrest as a big misunderstanding following what he called a very chaotic situation . excuse me? chaotic situation. excuse me? and finally some royal news. the king, the queen and prince william will attend ceremonies in france next month to mark the 80th anniversary of the d—day landings. his majesty and queen camilla will join a commemorative event at the british normandy memorial, while the prince of wales will attend a separate canadian ceremony. buckingham palace says though the princess of wales is not expected to travel to france, the visit comes after the king returned to public duties as doctors were pleased by his response to cancer treatment . response to cancer treatment. for the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts. just scan the qr code there on your screen or go to our website gb news. common alerts . news. common alerts. >> thank you very much for that. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight alongside me, my panel

are professor of politics at the university of kent, mark goodwin . and a new face everybody. we love those, don't we? the journalist and the broadcaster zoe grunwald. welcome to you. you know the drill, though, don't you? it's not just about us three. it's very much about you guys at home. wherever you are tonight. you are very welcome indeed. fascinated to hear what's on your mind tonight. you can get in touch with me all the usual ways you can email gb views @gbnews. com you can go to our website gb news communaute and talk to me there. of course you can tweet or x me and if you are by the way a very unfortunate enough to be in one of those areas mentioned in that news bulletin. there you'll be pleased to know you can even take me to the toilet with you if need be, because of course we are on the radio. i am one of those areas. it's not very nice, is it? i've got to say. tell me your experience without being too graphic, anyway, look, every single day now we seem to have this kind of jockeying for position, don't we? when it comes to politics, you can tell we're on the build up to a

general election, can't you? i won't be talking about the rich list in a few minutes, by the way, but i just want to get this one out of the way first, because jeremy hunt, of course, it was his time to take to the stand today. let's have a little listen. >> tax, jobs and welfare reform. there isn't just clear blue water between the parties. there is deep blue water, an ocean of deep blue water. that is the difference between more jobs or fewer jobs, difference between more jobs or fewerjobs, more people on welfare or fewer tax cuts or tax rises, more growth or less growth . in short, a prosperous growth. in short, a prosperous future or a poorer one. >> and i shall be listening intently to every word that was spoken there. but i can't help but just i just kind of get distracted by some of the communication style when they start going into this whole deep blue ocean, deep blue. i just found it all so bizarre, anyway , found it all so bizarre, anyway, i do. i can't help it. i think i think everyone is getting weirder by the day. or maybe it's just me. but anyway, it's not just you, michelle. i'm the

same, is there? this massive deep blue ocean water thing separating these two main passes? it doesn't feel like it's me, does it to you, matt? >> no it doesn't. i think what we've got is a is a new post—brexit big consensus in this country, which is irritating a lot of people, probably many of the people watching this show. what is that consensus? big state, high debt , consensus? big state, high debt, low growth, mass immigration, still pretty london centric. we've given up on trying to level up those northern regions. and i think many people now look at the conservatives and the labour party. they think they're not going to bring down migration , they're not going to migration, they're not going to control the borders, they're not going to deliver high rates of growth . they're not going to growth. they're not going to bnng growth. they're not going to bring back national debt. they're not going to revive the north. they're not going to lower taxes for individuals, households and businesses. what's the difference? and i think, you know, to be blunt, a lot of voters have got good reason to think that way. >> indeed. what about you? have you got your swimming suit at the ready to swim in this vast ocean of difference or not? i've never seen a politician look so unenthused by their own speech. >> i mean, it's just watching it. i'm not surprised you felt

like you were falling asleep. i think at this point, the conservatives are quite clearly out of ideas. i mean, it's been 14 years. they've got nothing to speak of for their own record. they're trying to pretend that there is this clear blue water between them and the labour party. the one thing that they can say is they are trying to lower taxes, and that is part of their overall picture for what they'd like to do. but i don't think actually people in this country really want to see taxes lowered. they want to see public services better off. they want to feel more money in their pockets. they don't just want endless national insurance tax cuts that they're not feeling. while public services are getting worse and worse, while the cost of living stays high. i mean, it's completely out of touch. and i think even jeremy hunt doesn't, quite frankly, believe his own hype. are you, what do you think to that? >> are you at home saying that you do want tax cuts, or do you share that sentiment that actually you're happy with your taxes as they are, as long as things perhaps start to improve ? things perhaps start to improve? >> just a quick one, because i'm i'm shocked. i'm actually agreeing with somebody on the left of politics, if you look at polling, what's fascinating to me is if you ask the brits, what do you want to happen with tax

and spend? about a third, say, lower taxes, spend less on pubuc lower taxes, spend less on public services, about a third say, keep taxes and spending the same, and about another third, say, increase taxes so we can spend more on the nhs and schools and so on. now, when the conservative party talks endlessly and relentlessly about tax cuts, they're actually really only speaking to about a third of the country. two thirds are saying, well, hang on a minute , okay, tax cuts are fine. minute, okay, tax cuts are fine. but what about mum and dad in the social care system? what about my local gp? what about the nhs? what about my local schools? and it's that public service issue that i think the conservatives are going to have to take head on if they're going to take head on if they're going to have a fighting chance at the election. i suspect, which will come in october. >> well, there you go . tell me >> well, there you go. tell me your thoughts. would you be prepared to pay more tax if it was ring fenced and if you wanted it to be ring fenced, where would you want it to be actually going? is it in places like the nhs, social care or perhaps somewhere else? i'll tell you what people that perhaps you will dispute how much tax some of these people

pay- much tax some of these people pay. but a story that caught my eye today is of course the rich list. it is out. have you had a look at this little gander? the top spot on this rich list. everybody do you know what it's worth? the net worth £37.196 billion. that's a top spot there. the second spot is where? 29 billion. the third spot? 25. almost billion . the fourth spot almost billion. the fourth spot a fella i like a lot actually, sir jim ratcliffe, i like him, sirjim ratcliffe, i like him, he was raised in hull. he's just done a massive stake into man u, hasn't he? he's worth, 23.5 billion. and then the fifth place we've got just shy of 21 billion, which is james dyson's family now a lot of people, matt, they will get in touch and say, oh, it's immoral for an individual to be having tens of billions of pounds. is it ? billions of pounds. is it? >> are you in the list? >> are you in the list? >> unfortunately, they don't . >> unfortunately, they don't. unfortunately, the list doesn't go to about 17,000. whatever, whatever. it only does the top

ten. do you know what? i missed out by a smidgen. i don't think it's immoral to have billionaires in the world. >> what i think is immoral is when those billionaires withdraw themselves from the community in which they were raised, and the community which supported them at other points in their lives. and i think more generally, we do have an issue here with, let's call it, unseemliness in the amounts that we pay ceos , the amounts that we pay ceos, senior leaders in business without them often giving back . without them often giving back. you know, we see extensive tax avoidance. we see tax evasion , avoidance. we see tax evasion, all those sorts of things. and i would like to see these leaders and tycoons and so on, giving back to the community and giving back to the community and giving back to the world. if they do that. i'm pretty relaxed, actually, about how much they make. i think we all aspire to be more than we are, but i want to see obligation and responsibility embedded in the conversation. >> do you agree with that? sorry. >> i mean, i agree to an extent. i mean, i don't think it is possible, unfortunately, to have an ethical billionaire. i think as as matt was saying, people

deliberately withdraw themselves. they try and hoard as much of that wealth as possible. it's not redistributed back into the economy. people with more money find more creative ways to get around paying creative ways to get around paying tax , and often i think paying tax, and often i think when you've got this amount of money, you have to ask what sort of things you've been doing to achieve that level of wealth, often within someone who's been a billionaire within their business, there will be some level of exploitation there. so i don't think it is. i don't look at this list and see aspiration and see good things. i see people who are hoarding far too much money, which i think is totally inexcusable. when we live in a country where poverty is on the up, food parcels are being handed out on the daily. i mean, ijust parcels are being handed out on the daily. i mean, i just think the daily. i mean, ijust think it is extraordinary that these people feel comfortable with the amount of money they've got. and i would like to see more redistribution. >> i would feel entirely comfortable sitting on a personal fortune of £235 personal fortune of £23.5 billion, or even on that top spot of £37 billion. i would feel absolutely delighted . and, feel absolutely delighted. and, but and i have to say, but i'm not sure we'd be doing this on a

friday evening. >> michelle, i love, i love the people of britain. >> i like talking to them. i probably would still be doing it, but what i would say, i would feel absolutely delighted. but and there is a book, a big book. one of the things that i would take extraordinary amounts of pleasure from if i was in one of pleasure from if i was in one of these positions, would be changing the lives of others. i would take such pleasure in helping people that genuinely needed help and support, and making a difference. and i've got to say, by the way, there is also a giving list, a giving list, and the person that's at the top spot. and i've not been asked to say this, by the way, i'm just saying it because i'm genuinely interested in this is sir paul marshall. he is one of the backers of this channel, it says according to this list, anyway, he's given £145 million. he's got that top spot. and i think you must take so much pleasure from helping others. >> yeah. can i just just on that. i think it's very to easy say, well, we shouldn't have billionaires or we should have more redistribution. the reality, i mean, you know, being

fortunate enough to have met some of the individuals on the list, i think the way hobnob are you i think we talk the way the way we the way we talk about billionaires, actually, is, is quite misleading. many of the people, that i've met over the years care a great deal about the country. they're doing a lot of work to improve civil society , to improve the quality of, of daily life for lots of less fortunate people. bill gates, obviously, would be one of the prominent examples. the amount that he's given back. okay. i don't agree with everything bill gates says. but, you know, he's given away billions and billions. >> well, give him pledge dirty. that's one of the things, the giving pledge. >> i mean, you mentioned it. you mentioned, you know, paul marshall, there are many others in the uk who i know for a fact have changed tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people's lives in areas like africa and asia and so on through improving quality of water and so forth. so i think it's easy to say, well, we shouldn't have billionaires. it's not ethical and we should have more redistribution. i

mean, also what message is that going to send to everybody else, you know, don't aspire to be more than you are because we're going to redistribute and take everything away from you. i don't think that's really in tune with human nature, but you can i mean, you can be so successful without being a billionaire. >> you can make money, you can have a brilliant business, you can give back. you don't need to hoard that extreme amount of wealth. i'd be really interested to know if anyone on that giving list is in this top ten rich list. >> well, i think some of them, i think i just want to come back to your first point, though, about you don't need to hoard this money. at what point does your kind of trigger for that kick in? when you get to the billion point or is it are you do you feel like that when you get to the multi—million point, like where's your threshold for where you think you shouldn't have that kind of wealth hoarded away and all the rest of it? >> i think it's hard for me to say because it's so beyond the realm of money that i believe i would ever earn in my lifetime. but i think if you are getting to the point where you have so much wealth that all you can do with it is invest it and find new ways to keep it and hoard it.theni new ways to keep it and hoard it. then i think there's,

there's we need to have a serious conversation about why you're doing it. because you cannot look around, even in britain and say there aren't serious problems with the social fabnc serious problems with the social fabric in this country, that there aren't serious issues with poverty. i mean, children who are going to school hungry, who aren't eating and be happy with that amount of money. >> those people you're assuming you're making a sweeping assumption that those people aren't helping those social problems. >> well, i mean, but we still have them and they're getting worse and people are getting fichen worse and people are getting richer. so clearly problems. but they're getting worse and people are getting richer. so clearly people aren't reading attributing in the way that they, they should do. i mean, you say you would take so much pleasure. i mean, i would as well. i take so much pleasure from having that money and give it giving it away. but quite clearly people don't. or they don't like to give enough of it away. and i just, i don't like to give enough of it away. and ijust, i don't don't like to give enough of it away. and i just, i don't maybe it's just a different in difference in my kind of ethical outlook. i just don't understand how people like this can have that amount of money and feel good about themselves. >> oh, i'd feel fantastic . >> oh, i'd feel fantastic. >> oh, i'd feel fantastic. >> i'd feel so good. it would make it easier. >> i would be skipping down the street. i'd be singing. i'd probably end up locked in some kind of asylum because people would think i was that demented.

i'd be that happy with myself because i actually find so many of these things. i mean, i've mentioned him , sirjim mentioned him, sir jim ratcliffe, mentioned him, sirjim ratcliffe, i find him so inspirational because he was raised in the same hometown as me . his company, ineos, he me. his company, ineos, he employs tens of thousands of people. he is from very, very, very humble beginnings. he didn't have anything handed to him. he's grafted, he's made his own success and if you want to and let me be clear, not everyone has aspirations to be a billionaire or a multi—millionaire or a millionaire. a lot of people, in fact, i would say actually some of the most content people i know, they are just, average people there and not much more than minimum wage in some cases. but they are truly content with their lot. and i think the biggest thing that you can strive for in life is good health and contentment . and one health and contentment. and one of my viewers, actually, tippy, he's got in touch and said, you can have all the money in the world, but if you don't have your good health, it's all irrelevant. and i agree with that. but of course, you can access the best health care , if access the best health care, if you've got all the money in the

world. jim's gb news member. thank you. james. he says it's absolutely none of our business how much money anybody has. philip says it's not immoral to be hugely wealthy. it's laudable . well, jim said, i've got a big wad of money. michelle because i listened at school, got good grades, did an apprenticeship, got a degree, worked hard for 45 years, max, says michelle. many people on the rich list don't even have the uk as their home residence place . do you think residence place. do you think that's a problem? >> yeah, i think that's a problem when people are, you know, investing their money here in the uk, they've got businesses, they've got a stake in uk society, and then they take what they can of their profits out of the uk to, to to, hoard it, to keep it for themselves. i think that's a huge problem. we definitely need to do more in this country to figure out ways to clamp down on tax avoidance and tax evasion, i don't think either labour or the conservatives have really got their head around how to do that. it's a difficult problem. some people argue it can discourage investment because people want to know that they

can keep their profits. but i think we need to have a conversation about what people do with this money and how we can encourage them to keep it in the uk, going through our public services, going into our schools . and you know, that redistribution element, i think is really important . is really important. >> what do you make of it all at home, get in touch all the usual ways and let me know your thoughts. after the break, i'll tell you about the way there's at least one person on this rich list that's doing very well out of providing accommodation to asylum seekers. fits nicely with what i want to discuss with you after the break, because do you think we should be accepting refugees from gaza? different opinions on the panel on that. but what's your opinion at home? i'll see you in two.

hi there. welcome back. everybody. michelle dewberry till 7:00 tonight. alongside with the professor of politics at the university of kent, matt

goodwin and new face journalist and broadcaster zoe grunfeld, who's joey? i almost called you joey. i don't know either. anne called worse and has got in touch saying that she's loving the panel tonight. but as one of them just pointed out in the break, it's early days and it's early days. a lot can change your number. anne yeah, he's asking for your number. i'm saying a lot can change, and we're also just discussing whether or not all of that rich list was predominantly all men. where's the women? where are you ladies? it'd be nice to see a few more on there, wouldn't it, let's talk refugees, because there's a petition , basically there's a petition, basically that asks that the uk should be housing refugees from gaza. it reached 100,000 people. so of course, then it was debated , course, then it was debated, what's your answer to this question? do you think we should be taking in refugees from gaza? matt. >> no, i don't i actually wrote a piece this morning on, on my substack about it, saying that i think it would be crazy , think it would be crazy, actually, for the uk to accept refugees from gaza , firstly,

refugees from gaza, firstly, i think there are neighbouring countries that should be doing a lot more egypt. jordan, you've got to ask questions as to why they're not taking more refugees from gaza. secondly, we know the track record in this area is pretty dismal. when denmark took a significant number of palestinians, a large number of them went on to commit crime . them went on to commit crime. they became dependent upon the welfare state. and i think there's a massive security risk here. surveys of palestinians in particular show that large majorities, support hamas , they majorities, support hamas, they support very radical islamist ideas , as unfortunately, do ideas, as unfortunately, do a significant number of british muslims, as we've seen recently in the polling and surveys. and i think to be frank, after the hong kong scheme, after the ukrainian scheme , after the ukrainian scheme, after the similar scheme for afghan interpreters , my view is britain interpreters, my view is britain is a tolerant open country , but is a tolerant open country, but britain actually has done enough in terms of helping people from elsewhere in the world. it's time for other countries to step up and do their part. so i'm against this move that's being pushed by the labour party, by the greens, by others on the left. >> so are you against it, i

think we should take palestinian refugees. and the reason i think thatis refugees. and the reason i think that is because i think anybody who is in a war torn area who is suffering trauma, intolerable trauma , intolerable levels of trauma, intolerable levels of loss to life, destruction should be considered as a refugee and should be taken in by countries with the means to do so. my grandfather was a german jewish refugee, when he tried to come to the uk , he was met with all to the uk, he was met with all kinds of hostility, partly because he was german, partly because he was german, partly because he was jewish. the arguments about him being german were that he was the enemy, and that he shouldn't be taken on those grounds. there are 45% of the palestinian population, are children . they are incredibly children. they are incredibly vulnerable. i think we should be doing our bit. we now look at all those german, jewish refugees we took during the second world war, and we feel really proud that we did that. and i think we're at danger of demonising a whole population of people. we should definitely think about the way we talk about refugees, because i worry we dehumanise them when actually they're they're important. it's important we take them. it's

important we take them. it's important we're empathetic and many of them have made brilliant contributions to this country. and i think we forget that when we talk in these terms. >> i think, you know, i think that sounds really nice. and it sounds really, you know, it makes us feel good. the reality is we've got 80 million displaced people around the world. britain cannot take people from every war torn country around the globe. i haven't heard people on the left, by the way, falling over themselves to say, let's take people from sudan or let's take people from sudan or let's take people from sudan or let's take people from the refugee camps in china, i haven't heard well, i would say anybody actually saying that. and secondly, we know actually what happens when we accept palestinians into this country. the two cases i wrote about this morning, country. the two cases i wrote about this morning , the two about this morning, the two young palestinian women who went to one of them went to the university of manchester to study law. another one i'm not i can't remember exactly where she went, but they both came out very quickly after october the 7th and they put on nice paraglider stickers onto their clothes and they ran into the streets saying how proud they were of the murder, rape and violence that was committed

against jews. and i wonder what your grandfather , or indeed jews your grandfather, or indeed jews today in britain would feel and think if we were to open the country to people who, to be blunt , celebrated the murder and blunt, celebrated the murder and rape of jews on october the 7th, which many of us found utterly appalling and have struggled with the response to that on britain's streets ever since . we britain's streets ever since. we have to draw a line somewhere. we cannot just keep taking people from war torn countries, least of all people who, to be blunt , don't really share our blunt, don't really share our way of life and the values that make us who we are. >> so i'll try and tackle there are a few issues in there. so the first i would say is that absolutely other countries should also be taking refugees as well. of course, it's not simply up to the uk. i think globally all countries should be talking about what they're going to do about the increasing number of refugees who are going to want to pour over borders because we have increasing global unrest, we have climate change. all these things are going to contribute to the amount of people who are moving across the world. so yes, all countries should have a duty to take refugees. on the point about those two palestinian

people, you mentioned refugees who had come into the uk and had expressed views that were sympathetic to hamas. obviously that's appalling, and i don't think we should be tolerant of those views at all. i think they're terrible. what happened on october the 7th was a terror attack. it was an appalling loss of life. it should never happen again. but we have to remember that refugees are all individual people. some of them aren't going to be perfect , some of going to be perfect, some of them aren't going to be nice people. they're not all going to have great views, but to demonise a whole group because of the actions of two people. i think you know that that's wrong. i think you know that we cannot hold all palestinian people responsible for the few that do terrible things, just as you wouldn't with brits, just as you wouldn't with brits, just as you wouldn't with any country. i mean, you're not saying that we should that that should be representative of all palestinian people. >> well, i use representative surveys. and if you look at those surveys of palestinians, over 60% of them, the washington institute, i wrote about it this morning are hyperlinked into the survey. people can go and look at it themselves. over 60% of

palestinians express support for hamas . and also a large majority hamas. and also a large majority of palestinians support this idea of islamic jihad. they hold views that to be blunt, are not the views that most british people want to see on their streets. and it comes down to this basically, i think it's about time we prioritise the british people . that's basically british people. that's basically what i think we need to do. we need to we've done a lot over the last ten years. we've helped hundreds of thousands of ukrainians, hong kongers, people from afghanistan and not to mention 2 million legal migrants from around the world and another 125,000 on the small boats. it's about time now that we actually prioritise the british people above others from around the globe. >> i'm curious to know in those surveys, because if about 45% of the population of palestine are children, is that including children, is that including children in those in those surveys? i mean, if half the population is so young and so vulnerable again, i'm i don't think anybody i don't think anybody in this debate is saying

we shouldn't be helping children in gaza. >> we shouldn't be helping children in palestine. but i'd love to see people on the left, for example, say, well, why don't we put more pressure on, i don't we put more pressure on, i don't know, egypt or jordan to perhaps take more refugees? why is it why is i don't just say that, didn't i? >> i did say i think other countries should have. >> why is it down to us? >> why is it down to us? >> but i think, i think we need to have global conversations about migration. it's going to be one of the biggest challenges of our time because there is going to be increasing wars, conflicts. there's going to be, you know, struggles for energy, climate change. all these things are going to make some parts of the world inhospitable . the world inhospitable. >> can i make a radical suggestion on the day in which a man has been sent to prison, an islamist asylum seeker who entered the country illegally and went to on murder a 70 year old who was simply walking on the street in the morning, can i suggest that before we start a debate about who else we're going to take in that we just fix our borders and our asylum system before we start considering who else we're going

to take into this country. let's do things in a logical order. let's strengthen the borders. let's strengthen the borders. let's fix the home office , which let's fix the home office, which is clearly not fit for purpose. and let's actually regain control of the country. then let's have a conversation about who else we can help around the world. but until we have a functioning immigration system with robust asylum laws that are that are that are seen through and properly monitored, this whole debate is, i'm sure many people at home are watching this thinking, this is complete lunacy. britain's done enough. >> well, i, i disagree with that point, but i do agree with the fact that there are plenty of issues in this country, and i think the constant use of migration as the biggest issue of the day by conservative and right leaning governments who want to detract from the fact that public services are in a dire state to detract from the fact that the nhs doesn't have enough money. i agree with that. i think actually our country is very tolerant and there have been forces at work to make immigration seem like it is the biggest issue in this country. like immigrants are the source

of so many of the problems in this country. they're not. the conservative government have underfunded so many services in its towns and streets. you can see the damage of tory rule. it's not if you demonise immigrants. don't be surprised when it becomes the main topic of conversation . of conversation. >> yeah. nobody here i, i would say i'm nobody's demonising immigrants. what i'm saying, to be clear, is mass immigration is managed decline. okay. now what do we mean by that? we've entered a population trap. we have so many people coming into this country that the capacity of the state, it can no longer provide basic public services like housing, like a functioning nhs, like gp appointments, like school places for kids. canada's talking about it. germany's talking about it. germany's talking about it. we seem incapable of having an honest, frank conversation about the full effects of migration. we have too many people coming into this country. we have another 6.5 million forecast to come into britain over the next decade. we can't even fix our housing crisis right now. we can't even fix our nhs crisis

right now. we can't fix our borders right now. this is lunacy. the british people have had enough. we need to give them what they asked for in 2016, 2019. lower migration. keep some. maybe net migration 100,000. keep it high skill. support the nhs , support parts support the nhs, support parts of the social care system. but we need a revolution in this country that is in tune with where british people are on this issue, because we've lost control. everybody can see it, everybody can feel it. every time they go out, they use a train, they go to their gp. we no longer have a functioning state in this country. >> i would just say, i think we're just going to disagree. i would say immigration is a convenient excuse used by a government that has deliberately underfunded its services and not built enough houses. i mean, you're completely right about housing, but the but the only people who are responsible are the blockers and the government who have refused to build things in this country. >> so we just keep building and building and building and building and building and building without actually having a conversation about demand and supply. i mean, look, for example, i would have more time for the left and the labour

party and others if they were just honest about what's happening in this country. we have 2 million people come into britain over the last 3 or 4 years. 15% of those people, one over five came in on a high skilled working visas . what i'm skilled working visas. what i'm saying is we are basically flooding the economy with low wage, low skilled workers. that's why gdp per head is so weak. that's why we don't have growth in this country. we're just throwing people at this economy, getting them to consume , but we're not actually generating growth. so we can have a kind of fantasy conversation about it. or we can have a realistic conversation about it. i'd like to have a realistic one. >> let me just ask you quickly say, would you put any limits or caps on this? because obviously the displaced people right across the world, there's conflicts right across the world, there's people suffering and struggling and all the rest of it. would you apply any caps restrictions? >> well, my problem with caps and restrictions is i don't know how practical they are because laws say you have a cap of 100,000, but then you have a family with a pregnant woman and three children. do you just turn

them away? i don't i don't think that's necessarily a good way of deciding how much immigration you take in a country. i mean, i think i will go back to the point i've made several times, which is this is not a domestic problem. this is a global problem. this is a global problem. and the only way we're going to get to grips with the issue of mass migration, is by working with other countries. and i think unfortunately, britain has turned itself into a very isolationist country , we very isolationist country, we haven't i mean, we've seen how small boat crossings have been impacted by us leaving the eu. i just think we can only tackle this issue if we work with other states. and james cleverly made actually what i thought was a fairly decent speech in the us a couple of months ago where he spoke about needing to cooperate on this on a global level. what do you make to it all at home? >> i know you, you'll have some strong opinions on it for sure. i'll get in touch and let me know your thoughts after the break. colin pitchfork even that name just sends chills down my spine. the double child killer. he's lost his appeal to get his parole heard behind closed doors. let me ask you a simple

question. don't you think that all parole hearings should be done where the public can scrutinise the goings .

on? hello there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight, right through everyone . tonight, right through everyone. you're keeping me company. and you are really divided in that last topic . i you are really divided in that last topic. i can tell you you are really divided in that last topic . i can tell you now, last topic. i can tell you now, we've just been debating about whether or not the uk should accept refugees from gaza. caitlyn said whatever happened to love thy neighbour? who on earth would want children to suffer? she says i agree with zoe. yeah, but they're not really our neighbours, though, are they? and this is one of the questionable points here. why aren't the neighbouring countries, the likes of egypt, jordan or whatever, doing more? lots of you getting in touch and saying that absolutely no . saying that absolutely no. lorraine says. we have an overpopulated country as it is.

we don't have the infrastructure to support any body else, really, you are pretty much divided on this one, i can tell you. i wonder though, the fact that so many of these people are children. does that make a difference in your mind or not? of course. matt goodwin is alongside me, of course, as is zoe, grindelwald. welcome back everyone . let's talk. colin everyone. let's talk. colin pitchfork, shall we remember him, it's just that name. it makes me feel sick. he's, of course, the guy that killed two children. we're focusing though tonight, not on him, really, but on the premise of parole. because he actually wanted his parole hearing to be held essentially behind closed doors. it was ruled instead that in the interests of justice, essentially, this was going to be a more public hearing. i say good to that . what do you say, good to that. what do you say, though, zoe? >> i'm just not sure what the benefit of a public hearing is apart from, apart from having people who are very, very angry and upset getting very, very

angry and upset about this. i mean, this is an incredibly horrific case of the murder, of two women, two girls, 15 year olds. yeah. two girls. i mean, it's just absolutely appalling . it's just absolutely appalling. and i know there's a lot there'll be a lot of hurt in the community, a lot of people who want to see this man behind bars, for good. but. but i just don't know what benefit it provides for the justice system , provides for the justice system, for the families involved to have the parole hearing. >> do you feel like that? because i. i quite like open justice. so, like, now you've got your cameras in the courts, you've got all of these things. so do you apply your sentiment to more, the justice system more broadly ? so would you say, for broadly? so would you say, for example, we shouldn't have cameras in courts , etc? cameras in courts, etc? >> it's a difficult one because i think there are some issues in this country because we have such a close system. sometimes the reporting of cases aren't, we don't we don't get all the details. we'll get what the media is reporting on that day. and i think sometimes that can lead to especially in the age of social media, it can lead to misinformation. it can lead to, you know, online internet

sleuths trying to fill in the gaps. so and, you know, that can often retraumatize families that can make things worse, that can spread misinformation. but then i also do think that the families of those impacted do deserve privacy and also people who are on trial do deserve a fair trial. and sometimes the media can compromise that. >> well, what about letting the victims decide? then you could maybe go to the victims and say, right, what do you want? you get the final say. do you want a pubuc the final say. do you want a public hearing or a private heanng?l public hearing or a private hearing? i don't know, maybe that's a compromise there. where are you on it? >> well, i think there's something about trying to increase public trust in the legal system. there's something about. it's a bit like the royal family, isn't it? you know, you've got to see it, to believe it. and i think there's something about allowing people into the heart of the legal judicial system that sort of appeals to me. i think. secondly, just thinking about the people that zoe said, you know, you're going to get emotional people and so on. but there is something as well here about, encouraging , helping about, encouraging, helping people go through the process of forgiveness, acceptance, reconciliation . and is there

reconciliation. and is there something in this that's actually going to allow people to go further on that journey, you know, by watching the proceedings, by being close to the proceedings, by seeing the perpetrators, by seeing the justice system in action. and i imagine, you know, if i was caught up in one of these cases, i'd want to be, you know, as close as possible to it, whether i was a neighbour, whether i was a friend, relative, whatever. >> the only part of me that questions my own thought process because i do believe in open justice, i want kind of, i feel i feel like i'm a little bit almost medieval sometimes because i am really harsh when it comes to punishment, i really do. i think if you really, really, really punish people, don't get me. i'll get kicked off national television. if i told what i really thought. but i'm really harsh on punishment, and i think that we need to be harsher on criminals. but the only part of me that kind of stops myself sometimes i think you don't want to inspire other wrong'uns if you've got the wrong'uns if you've got the wrong kind of people. following these trials, gripped to every twist and turn of what people

did, are you actually then going to inspire someone? actually, thatis to inspire someone? actually, that is pretty bad, but maybe not as bad as that. and then they sit there and think, oh, actually, yeah, i didn't think of that. i could possibly add that to my plan or that to my plan. so that stops me in my tracks sometimes. that sort of copycat criminal. >> yes, maybe. but by the way, your views on longer sentences, tougher sentences is, don't make you unique. about 70 to 80% of brits. and no, i'm not just about longer sentences. >> i would actually i would at least go to a referendum about things like capital punishment in situations where there was absolutely no doubt whatsoever, like those people , for example, like those people, for example, that lee rigby to death, what are you doing in prison ? just are you doing in prison? just just briefly, just briefly on that begone. >> overall, you look at the data on this. since the 80s, support on this. since the 80s, support on capital punishment has come has been coming down to about 4,045. >> i'm out of touch. >> i'm out of touch. >> no, no, no i'm not. but when it comes to murderers of children , murderers of police children, murderers of police officers, support is much higher. people are outraged by some of those incidents . yes.

some of those incidents. yes. >> rightly so. i do often say to you all, dare i say it pretty much every night. i always do acknowledge it's a damn good job for the nation that i'm not the prime minister, quite frankly, anyway , keep your thoughts anyway, keep your thoughts coming in. get in touch with me all the usual ways. coming up after the break, of course. jubilee tavern opens my favourite time of the week. i'll bnng favourite time of the week. i'll bring you guys back into the conversation, but also , have we conversation, but also, have we got some kind of problem? why are so many brits not welcome abroad? but apparently the tide might be turning. i'll see you in two.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry, and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight. mark goodwin remains alongside me, as does zoe grunwald. welcome back everybody. one of my viewers makes a very interesting point, actually. we've just been talking about whether or not parole hearings should be done in a more public, way rather

than being entirely behind closed bars. but gary says, michelle, anyone that kills a child should not even be eligible for a parole hearing . eligible for a parole hearing. even eligible for a parole hearing. ever. i like your style. me and you. we'd get on quite well. i say. anyway. look, it's friday, jubilee tavern is open . my jubilee tavern is open. my favourite time of the week. cheers to you, matt. cheers zoe. i complained last week, everybody, because my glass was not full enough. but now, look, they've, taught me a lesson with this one. i can't even i can't even do a cheers without accidentally spilling it on myself. >> your glasses runneth over. >> your glasses runneth over. >> it is. it is, i'm definitely a cup that's full lady to this evening. anyway. cheers to you all, and i wish you the best with your weekend. let's talk booze, shall we? because, we get quite a bad reputation abroad , quite a bad reputation abroad, don't we? you've seen already many countries have been starting to take to the streets in protest about tourists more generally . well, anyway, now the generally. well, anyway, now the government of majorca have cracked down, apparently, on boozy brits by imposing heavy fines for street drinking shops as well. they've decided to stop

selling alcohol at certain times as well , selling alcohol at certain times as well, magaluf though, i got to say. i say michael olise when ieven to say. i say michael olise when i even say things like magaluf. it makes me go all misty eyed. i look back with fondness at my teenage years and the things that we used to get up to. anyway, i think we're quite welcome in magaluf still. i think as as long as we behave ourselves, what's the problem with us and booze? matt i don't know. >> i mean, look, i went to a boys school and we had a wonderful summer in tenerife that will look at him . that will look at him. >> he's going misty eyed, thinking about forever. >> remain in the secrecy locker, look, i just think the brits, you know, going back maybe to the, the, the vikings and all the, the, the vikings and all the invasions we've had over the years. i mean, it's part of our culture. we like a few drinks, we like to cut loose. we you know, we like to go out and just let off some steam. and i don't think that's ever going to change. i think we just like to express ourselves, the young ones less so, though the young ones less so, though the young ones don't seem to drink drink as much. >> yeah. that's what, polls say,

don't they? they say that more and more gen z are , not not not and more gen z are, not not not drinking and not doing drugs . drinking and not doing drugs. and, you know, that's probably great from a public health perspective. i mean , i am on the perspective. i mean, i am on the cusp of gen z and millennial, and i think because of my drinking habits, i'm a millennial, i went to malia, didn't have a good time, but not because of the drinking. >> how did you not have a good time? >> oh, we were just not in a very nice, flat. and you know it just as as these holidays do. sometimes they get a bit messy. >> all right, well, what goes on there will stay there , i think. there will stay there, i think. so, anyway, you're going to get fined, as i said, up to £1,300 for drinking in the streets. these party boats, see all that? they bring back the memories , they bring back the memories, don't they? those party boats. do you remember those? i do , do you remember those? i do, i'll tell you what i remember. >> i remember the 90s, i remember. oh i love the 90s. talk about. i mean, you're too young to remember this, but i'm a geriatric millennial, which means i was born in 1981. that means i was born in 1981. that means i'm sort of on the cusp of gen x and millennials, and i remember the 90s, and they were

a lot of fun. everything. i've got a theory, everything before social media was a lot more fun. is that everything after social media? >> because i bet i bet viewers at home, you look back, don't you? and for some reason , it's you? and for some reason, it's always you look back at certain aspects of time, certain moments in time, and that's the best one according to you. so i think it just depends on your life's experience. but do you think there's something in that life was better? pre—social media? >> well, i mean, i don't really have much of a comparison because i grew up just on bebo and facebook and everything, so i don't know, but i was oh, bebo, bebo, i know, i know the person that founded bebo. >> i've got to say that was, i think that was magaluf. i think that was a strip on magaluf that i was just showing you there. i've grown up a little bit now, so it's not for me anymore, but by gosh, look at that. that would have been my kind of place, when i was about 19 years of age, i can tell you now, i would have had a very good time indeed. what i could remember of it the next day would have been, slightly lacking, i can tell you that. anyway, look, there's been a lot of appreciation for you two this evening. one of my

viewers, elaine, though she does want you to lend her your rose tinted glasses. she says when it comes to immigration, many of you, though of course, have agreed with the debate. of course, it won't surprise you to know that people have been in touch saying matt goodwin for prime minister. hey thanks. never say never. never. thank you ma'am. never. there you go . you ma'am. never. there you go. well, look, that is all i've got time for. thank you to my panel. thank you for sharing your friday night with me. i appreciate it, but don't go anywhere, though, because lee anderson is up next. and i'll see you on monday night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello and welcome to the latest forecast from the met office for gb news. >> plenty of warm, sunny spells this weekend, but it won't be sunny or indeed dry everywhere . sunny or indeed dry everywhere. >> there'll be some cloud development, there'll be some showers here and there. we're in between high pressure and low pressure at the moment. >> weather fronts are tending to stay away, but there is a feature that's been bringing some heavy rain to germany over the last couple of days , and

the last couple of days, and that's just going to swing some cloud and outbreaks of rain into the far south—east and east anglia overnight. >> and there'll be some low cloud drifting into eastern scotland, north—east england so grotty conditions first thing here on saturday. otherwise further west, plenty of sunny spells a fresh start but soon enough where we've got the sunshine it will warm up quickly. where we've got the low cloud, it's going to be slower to warm up and we will have some showery rain first thing along the south coast into kent , south the south coast into kent, south wales, perhaps into southwest. as the morning goes on. wales, northwest england, southwest scotland, plenty of warm sunshine but northeast england into eastern scotland low cloud and mist. northern scotland likewise, that will take some time through the morning to burn back to the beaches . northern back to the beaches. northern ireland lots of cloud. first thing that will tend to break up and allow some sunny spells to come through as the day goes on. so for the majority it is looking like a fine day. there'll be some decent sunny

spells, but there'll also be showers developing as temperatures rise. the odd shower for wales, central and northern england central scotland as well, particularly over the highlands, but the most frequent showers are likely towards the southwest. devon, cornwall, dorset somerset could see some heavy downpours continuing into the evening, dying away overnight. so a dry start to the day on sunday. a lot of cloud first thing, particularly in the north and the east, but quickly there are some very pleasant, warm, sunny spells developing through the morning and into the afternoon. again, there'll be showers, but they're most likely to be focused towards the southwest. similar conditions on monday. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boiler as sponsors of weather on

gb news. away.

>> welcome to the andersons. real world. tonight we've got a cracking show . we've got stephen cracking show. we've got stephen pound back on the show for about the 10th time. sir vince cable, former leader of the liberal democrats, is back on the show. political commentator , third political commentator, third time on the show. that's chloe dobbs, who got the former political editor of the sun newspaper, trevor kavanagh . and newspaper, trevor kavanagh. and reality tv star precious muir. the first. let's go to the . news. >> very good evening to you. it's just after 7:00. i'm sam francis, a look at the headlines this hour. israel's prime minister says the deaths of three hostages whose bodies have been recovered from gaza are heartbreaking . the israeli heartbreaking. the israeli defence forces say that they

were discovered overnight