on the 5th of july. >> either keir starmer or i will be prime minister and he has shown time and time again that he will take the easy way out and do anything to get power. if he was happy to abandon all the promises that he made to become labour leader once he got the job, how can you know that he wouldn't do exactly the same thing if he were to become prime minister? we conservatives have got a clear plan with bold action to secure our future board. so let's take that message and that vision of a secure future to every corner of our united kingdom. and let's show labour that the british people will never be taken for granted . granted. >> meanwhile, the labour leader, keir starmer, responded to the announcement, saying the election is the moment the country has been waiting for night. >> the prime minister has finally announced the next general election , a moment the general election, a moment the country needs and has been

waiting for, and liberal democrats leader sir ed davey vowed to remove the tories from power across the country. >> people are crying out for change and this election is the chance to make that happen in so many parts of the country, it's the liberal democrats who can beat the conservatives, who have taken people for granted . taken people for granted. >> and in other news, uk inflation has fallen to the lowest level in nearly three years. in april, lowest level in nearly three years. in april , driven by lower years. in april, driven by lower gas and electricity prices. the latest figures show. inflation dropped to 2.3% last month. one person, one person has died in a mudslide on the edge of the nonh mudslide on the edge of the north yorkshire moors as rain continues to batter the uk . it continues to batter the uk. it happened at carlton in cleveland at around 130 this afternoon in nonh at around 130 this afternoon in north yorkshire. police have asked the public to avoid the area and former subpostmaster alan bates has said he has no sympathy for paula vennells after she broke down twice

dunng after she broke down twice during her first day of evidence to the horizon. it inquiry. during her first day of evidence to the horizon. it inquiry . the to the horizon. it inquiry. the former post office boss at the centre of the scandal admitted making mistakes during her time in charge, but she insists she didn't know about the horizon system when she joined and that no one had told her of any bugs. she's also denied any conspiracy to cover up the scandal . and for to cover up the scandal. and for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news common alerts. now it's back to . patrick. back to. patrick. >> good evening folks. it's wednesday the 22nd of may and it's happening. it's started with twitter rumours. there's a lack of denial from number 10 and usually reliable government sources going underground sent westminster into a frenzy. then david cameron failed to attend a meeting with the albanians, a massive blow for the albanian government, who had rolled out a welcome mat, including a giant poster of him on a building in their capital. then sunak was

asked about it at pmqs. >> mr speaker , speculation is >> mr speaker, speculation is rife so i think the public deserve a clear answer to a simple question does the prime minister intend to call a summer general election , or is he faked general election, or is he faked a mid beds? >> mr speaker ? as i have said >> mr speaker? as i have said repeatedly to him . there is. repeatedly to him. there is. >> there is the speaker. >> there is the speaker. >> spoiler alert there is going to be a general election in the second half of this year. >> then for about 20 minutes, it all became about jeremy hunt quitting. they say that he'll lose his seat anyway. he hasn't got any money for tax cuts. so he's off. and we were about to get a cabinet reshuffle. and then it swung back round to being all about a general election again. there was an emergency cabinet meeting at 4:15 pm. last week. rishi sunak said book your summer holidays, we're going for autumn holiday , we're going for autumn holiday, so you need to let me know. >> family to come back and tell us when the election is.

delighted to have you with us then. delighted to have you with us then . november, thank you very then. november, thank you very much for your holiday. >> thank you for sir. thank you. >> thank you for sir. thank you. >> book your holidays , he said. >> book your holidays, he said. but as the afternoon progressed, one date emerged. july the 4th, and it was all eyes on downing street. and then there we go. and then all eyes on the downing street door after that wasn't it? and out strides rishi sunak into the pouring rain to remind us all immediately about the time this government locked us down and smashed our economy to pieces. >> i introduced the furlough scheme . i did so not because scheme. i did so not because i saw a country simply in need of desperate help, albeit we were, but because i saw a country whose future hung in the balance . i have never and will never leave the people of this country to face the darkest of days alone and you know that because you've seen it as i did, then i will forever do everything in my power to provide you with the strongest possible protection. can. >> no one in downing street

thought to provide mr sunak with an umbrella as he got soaked to the bone. then the music started and his message to the nation was drowned out. >> prices will ease and mortgage rates will come down. this is proof that the plan and priorities i set out are working . i recognise that it has not always been easy. >> things can only get wetter. a rishi finally , the prime rishi finally, the prime minister got to the important bit earlier today i spoke with his majesty the king to request the dissolution of parliament. >> the king has granted this request . request. >> but there was a stark comparison between sukh sunak and slick starmer, who looked more prepared and prime ministerial than the prime minister >> night. the prime minister has finally announced the next general election, a moment the country needs and has been waiting for. >> so here we go . prime minister >> so here we go. prime minister rishi sunak has gone for it. the

general election will be on july the 4th and we go now to downing street with our political edhon street with our political editor, christopher hope. christopher, how's rishi played? a blinder or has he got this all wrong ? wrong? >> well, time will tell , won't >> well, time will tell, won't it, patrick? and good evening from downing street, where jeremy hunt has just arrived back from this fundraiser. the pm has been in charge of over in east london. the election starts today. it has caught virtually everybody , apart from a few everybody, apart from a few people around the prime minister, completely unawares . i minister, completely unawares. i was talking with a member of the whips office earlier tonight. they told their flock there two dozen mps or so. there will be an election in november. i have been told for ages it will be in november because that's when it makes sense, because by then you may have had some cuts in interest rates, maybe two of those from the mpc, the monetary policy committee. by then, inflation is down to well under or around 2. net migration falls . patrick. illegal migration may start to tick down. even you

might have tax cuts announced by the chancellor in a fiscal moment in september. all those levers the pm has chosen not to pull. instead he has gone from an election that no one was expecting in the pouring rain . expecting in the pouring rain. and the campaigning starts tomorrow. tory mps are cross. at least one letter has gone in, or a letter of no confidence in the prime minister. tonight they tell me there is a chance they can depose the prime minister as leader of the party before next thursday, when parliament is dissolved. i think the jury is out on that. i think the chance of that happening is slim, very slim. but that gives you an indication of the fury of a lot of tory mps tonight. the ones speaking to me just don't understand why he has gone for an election now when he didn't have to. why not wait six months and see if all those things that might happen have happened, and then further doubts emerge about sir keir starmer instead, the pm has gone for an election that no one expected. >> yeah. look, christopher,

thank you very, very much for keeping us bang up to date all day. there. just one more. oh, that's all right. let's get the thoughts from our panel this evening. we've got the director of the popular conservatives, mark littlewood. businessman and activist adam brooks, and author and journalist rebecca reid. mark i will start with you on this. what a calamitous way to announce a general election in the driving rain with steve bray and his massive megaphone shouting at you. >> yeah , he sort of came across >> yeah, he sort of came across as the little kid in the playground who said, come on then, i'll take you all on. you've got to kind of you know, it's quite courageous in a way, whether it's completely wise . whether it's completely wise. i'm unsure of. chris went through some of the reasons that he might have waited until november, or possibly even later, but i'm not sure much would have changed. the one thing that chris didn't point out is oftentimes when a government is in trouble and thinking about whether to go early or late, it's some of it is what's going to happen to the economy . what do we think's economy. what do we think's going to happen to inflation? but some of it's just crossing your fingers and hoping for a black swan event. you know that

something will come out of thin air that changes the polls. he's decided that's not very likely. so it's game on. it's i've never known a government that is 15 or 20% behind in the opinion polls to trigger an early election. it's without precedent. >> well, you've mentioned the opinion polls, and we've got a few of them that we can actually show you very shortly here now. so the latest opinion polls for rishi sunak are actually pretty dire. actually he is if we have a look at this voting intention . a look at this voting intention. labour 43, the conservatives 26, the lib dems on ten there, reform on nine and the greens on five and the snp on three. so thatis five and the snp on three. so that is the latest polling data from savanta and adam. i'll throw it over to you. now, do you think that rishi sunak can do anything between now and the 4th of july to change what we're seeing on our screens there? >> no, i think they will narrow slightly, i think the polls are always sort of wrong in some way, but no, they're finished . way, but no, they're finished. and, you know, it was maybe two

years ago when i was on, on this channel saying , if you get rid channel saying, if you get rid of boris, there's going to be severe trouble for the conservative party. i always say, better the devil you know, they got rid of the uk's only superstar, politician. someone that could walk down any street. his haters would go up and get a picture with him. you know, we haven't got many of those in this country . haven't got many of those in this country. boris was that man. rishi is a disaster, right, he's he's, you know, they're going to get annihilated and rebecca, there was an issue, a massive issue. >> i think with the professionalism of both of those announcements, given that rishi sunak was the one who was deciding when to call the election and to how do it, his team is crack team of advisers . team is crack team of advisers. yes, that was crack, decided that they were going to have him outside in the pouring rain with steve bray with a megaphone, next to him as well, playing a load of music. in fact, i can show what went on here with that ring blaring a

load of music is kind of an international annoyance. this guy here, he is . are you proud guy here, he is. are you proud of yourselves? >> fascist . this is not law. >> fascist. this is not law. >> fascist. this is not law. >> this is not law. this is not law . a law was broken law. a law was broken specifically to do this to this man. >> there is a long established constitution rule against particular law , long established particular law, long established this country has fallen to fascism. so you've got a guy in the shape of rishi sunak who's getting drizzled on. you've got all that going on on downing street. they couldn't organise an umbrella, they couldn't stop the protesters shouting as well. we've got a little side by side for you of this now and i'll put this to you. rebecca rishi sunak , they're absolutely soaking wet on downing street . keir starmer on downing street. keir starmer inside, you know he can't see them in this video. inside, you know he can't see them in this video . a couple of them in this video. a couple of union jacks next to him. nice and dry. difference in

professionalism. >> so i have a semi conspiracy theory about this. and i think it's that if you have ever watched a film where there's like a sports match, if you want people to side for one team, you start them as the loser and then you see them come back up. and i my theory is i don't think they can be stupid enough to send him out without an umbrella. so all i can imagine is that they want him to have had the worst possible start, so that then in the six weeks which we're going to have, we have a very short attention span. the news cycle flips around a lot. in theory, maybe this is done so that he can actually only get better, literally. >> like the music was saying, no, they are that stupid and i've said it. i've said it numerous times. the people that are advising our mps, some of them are extremely stupid and they've let the mps down. yeah, but you're pretty sure it was cock up, not conspiracy because again, what does that say? >> mark? i'm sorry, but seriously, what does that say? he can pick and choose when the next election is. he's already up against it. we've just shown you the polls there and he's got the ability to make that decision. he caught everyone by surprise . david cameron was

surprise. david cameron was dragged back. he didn't quite make it to baby reindeer. but you know, he's dragged back from there. there's all this speculation going and he's on the steps of downing street and he's in there ruining a nice suit. >> yeah, he can probably afford a new suit, i'm guessing, but no, you're right. i mean, what one might say in his defence is i suspect that the number of people who knew this for certain at lunchtime today numbered about 3 or 4, so usually for an announcement of this significance, you'd have a communications team planning it out weeks in advance, working out weeks in advance, working out who was going to be standing to the left of him, to the right of him, and all of the rest of it? this was it's not really a snap election, is it? the government's been in office for four and a half years, but it was a snap decision to do it, and it came a little bit unstuck through the optics. >> maybe there was an element of him looking for pathos there, that he was a very sort of humble way to announce it. maybe he's trying to engender sympathy, but the rhine was clearly could not have been organised by him. >> they could. they could have said, you know what, actually, let's not do it like that or let's not do it like that or let's give him an umbrella. >> did he know that there was a

coup to dethrone him in the next few days? has he been panicked into this decision? you know, was there, was there a move to install another leader of the conservative party that is probably more likely for me? or why would he do this ? why? why would he do this? why? >> it's well held that he might want to move to america and american schools start in august, and he might want his kids in situ to start school in august. that would be a very cynical, very cynical reason to dissolve parliament. if i knew i was going to leave, i'd be like, well, well, let's have a look. >> let's have a little look at some of the things. the state of play some of the things. the state of play when it comes to the timing of rishi sunak's election. okay so we've had inflation now is at its lowest for nearly three years. is the visa dependent apps are down okay. so that has happened. apps are down okay. so that has happened . we're expecting the happened. we're expecting the net migration figures to be lower tomorrow, mainly because they couldn't really get any higher. otherwise we'd all have a newcomer all around us, everywhere we see, everywhere we go. so they're going to go down as well. flies to rwanda. he thinks we'll take off in the first week of july. that could coincide with this election if he plays his cards right on that. the european union or a

variety of different member states have now come out and said they are going to copy the rwanda plan. meanwhile, this week, labour have basically said they're going to make it easier to change gender, which means essentially more blokes in women's changing rooms. and also they, and i'm paraphrasing here, would quite like to make an enemy of israel by the looks of things. good timing. >> well, you could say good timing. here's my conspiracy thoughts for what they're worth . thoughts for what they're worth. firstly, i suspect you might be right that rwanda plan might get a plane or two off the ground. it's possible, but i think he might have reached the conclusion it's not going to have any discernible impact between now and november, so you might as well just get the opfics might as well just get the optics if there are going to be any now. but he's not anticipating that the small boats won't be coming over the channel over the summer, which would be bad optics for him. second consideration may have been, reform . the uk have not been, reform. the uk have not yet got their act together. they've been promising for as long as anyone will listen that they're going to field 650 candidates. i think they've only got a few dozen in place . we'll got a few dozen in place. we'll hear from nigel farage, i think tomorrow, whether he's going to run or not. but it's going to be

quite difficult for reform to actually slot in place 600 candidates. that's quite helpful to the conservatives. if you'd give them reform till november, i think they could have been more up and running . more up and running. >> well, just just on that. we're going to park it there for now. a reminder to you that we are expecting an announcement at 11 am. tomorrow from reform uk. it is expected that at that announcement, nigel farage will decide whether or not he is going to actually run. so make sure that you watch this space because we'll bring it to you here first on gb news. but look, i wanted to play you a little bit of how sir keir starmer delivered his first speech after this general election was called night. >> the prime minister has finally announced the next general election. a moment the country needs and has been waiting for. and where by the force of our democracy, power returns to you a chance to change for the better. your future, your community, your

country . now it will feel like country. now it will feel like a long campaign. i'm sure of that. but no matter what else is said and done, that opportunity for change is what this election is about. change is what this election is about . over the course of the about. over the course of the last four years, we've changed the labour party . we returned it the labour party. we returned it once more to the service of working people. well i am delighted to welcome former conservative mp david campbell—bannerman. >> david, you are widely regarded as mr grassroots when it comes to the conservative party. the grass roots i am heanng party. the grass roots i am hearing are not particularly happy about this election. >> no, i think it's i think it's very selfish announcement, >> no, i think it's i think it's very selfish announcement , to be very selfish announcement, to be honest, you know, it will condemn a lot more mps to having a really tough time, unfortunately, and i it seems

very thoughtless. and that's why it's caused such a prize, you know? i mean, things are going the right direction. you know, the right direction. you know, the economy is getting better. interest rates seem to be on the verge of coming down, and that could all help these mps. but, no , he's decided to go now, and, no, he's decided to go now, and, we've got to live with that and, you know, get behind the conservatives. but it's going to be much more difficult. >> it's going to be much more difficult. let me just bring up onto the screen now and we can talk through this. what would a tory government look like? okay. so it would be rishi sunak as prime minister, oliver dowden as his deputy, over at the treasury, we've got jeremy hunt, he's going to be the chancellor and we've got james cleverly there who would have the top job at the home office. lord cameron is going to be the foreign secretary and victoria atkins would head up the health department. so that is the tory top team. david, let me whizz us through what labour would look like now. so sir keir starmer

would be in charge with angela rayner as his deputy. rachel reeves would be chancellor, yvette cooper would end up at the home office. david lammy would be foreign secretary and of course wes streeting will be in charge at the health department. when you look at those two teams side by side, is it difficult or otherwise for the tories to make the case to vote for them ? vote for them? >> well, i think the labour team is very weak, and you can see that from some of their announcements, and i david lammy, to be honest, some of the things he said do worry us about brexit, about, foreign affairs, support for palestine, that sort of thing , so i think, i think of thing, so i think, i think labouris of thing, so i think, i think labour is pretty fragile and he may be found out in this election . you might be looking election. you might be looking at a 92. i think the issue is, is this going to be like a 92 election where, conservative has really surprised the john major, actually surprised labour, neil kinnock, or is it like a

disaster zone with blair winning the day? and i think that is going to be the contest. and of course, you know, theresa may managed to lose a 20% lead, when she called an unnecessary election, so , so it's possible election, so, so it's possible that things change, but i think it makes it very, very difficult. and it's a real challenge to miriam cates . it challenge to miriam cates. it wasn't necessary. we could have given it a bit more. >> so you fundamentally do not think it was necessary for rishi sunak to call this election right now, then? and you think that that could actually have a detrimental thing? can you expand on the reasons why you think that rishi sunak is selfish for calling this election now ? election now? >> because, i mean, you know, no one can understand what he's doing and why he's called it at this particular point. you know, things are, as i say, are going in the right direction. they are getting better. i think that will increase the prospects for many conservative mps in tight battles, and we could actually hold on to many more tory mps

had we left it until november or december . had we left it until november or december. but, but look, the decision is made , and, and, you decision is made, and, and, you know, i think he's in a hurry. really and, you know, we've got to live with this decision, but i don't think history is going to be very kind. >> but you're you're you're big in the grassroots. just one last one with you. are you going to struggle to go and knock on doors for rishi sunak? >> well, i'll do it for the conservatives and do for strong local candidates. but i do struggle. and of course, you know, others like ben horsham, the mayor that the one mayor we held to , on he, he wrote out held to, on he, he wrote out rishi sunak wrote out the conservatives. there are ways of doing it. we've got about conservatives, but i'm afraid, she has some hole. you know, there's some problems there that are holding us back. >> all right, look, david, thank you very, very much. and we'll be chatting to you, no doubt quite a lot over the course of the next six weeks. as david

campbell—bannerman. now, all the best. and well, i'm very pleased now to say that i am joined after having heard quite a bit from the so—called grassroots to the right anyway, of the conservative party. i'm very pleased to now be joined by former labour minister bill rammell and the former tory party special adviser, lauren mckevitt , bill, i'll start with mckevitt, bill, i'll start with you on this. keir starmer and the labour party looked more prepared for rishi sunak's announcement than rishi sunak today. i think . today. i think. >> yeah, i mean, i thought the prime minister's statement outside downing street was a shambles, covered in rain. >> you know, huge music playing and actually quite a long, rambling speech. >> and then it immediately cut to keir starmer indoors. prime ministerial short, punchy time for change. and then even ed davey was short and on the money. so i think the contrast was quite significant. >> it was now actually i can articulate that a little bit because we have got , a social because we have got, a social media comparison for you. so this is, this is sunak just on

his speech. he's on downing street . he's gone into dry off. street. he's gone into dry off. okay. and, this is basically what happened. all right. so this is the conservative party twitter page. all right. the moment that their leader announced the general election on the 4th of july, stick with the plan that's working and a checklist there. so it's a it's a sticker. so that's that's what thatis a sticker. so that's that's what that is that picture with all of that is that picture with all of that stuff. now what can only be described as that sticker with bullet points. this however, was what labour had ready to go instantly . instantly. >> political chaos, feeding decline feeding, chaos . feeding decline feeding, chaos. feeding decline. the answer is not five more years of the tories . more years of the tories. >> they have failed. >> they have failed. >> give the tories five more years and things will only get worse . britain deserves better worse. britain deserves better than that . only a changed labour than that. only a changed labour party will get britain's future back. and make no mistake, the labour party has changed. >> lauren, you were a former spad. there's no way you would

have advised them to do this, would you? >> i think the advice that went to the prime minister today is, is something that will probably begin to leak out over the course of the next couple of days, and i suspect strongly that there are things that we, we haven't factored in in the pubuc we haven't factored in in the public domain yet. >> it's entirely possible that they're looking at a summer of not being able to stop the boats coming across the channel, and a significantly increased number of people arriving illegally in the united kingdom . it's the united kingdom. it's possible that they've got bad news on the rwanda scheme that they feel that this sort of nips in the bud because they're going in the bud because they're going in advance of it. the thing that i find the most interesting is that the, the, the inflation drop today was not good enough, and it was not good enough in certain areas. and i think that that means no rate cuts are coming down the line, which doesn't give them room fiscally for any kind of fiscal event in the autumn that could have put more money into public services or given a bit of a tax giveaway. and with that being the case, it's possible that you look at the you look at the hand that's coming and say , no, that's coming and say, no, actually, we should go now. you know, i take david

campbell—bannerman's point. you know, things are going things are going really well. why would they why would they do this? it's entirely possible to make the argument that, yes, things are going well, and that means it's exactly the right time to do this. but i think the labour party exists solely in opposition. they've got a lot of time to put videos like that together. yeah, the conservative party is governing, and i think it's very bold, by the way, for keir starmer to have put vaughan gething anywhere near his leadership campaign when he's under investigation for, for some really interesting campaign donations during the labour leadership election in wales. so i think , you know, a changed i think, you know, a changed labour party doesn't look that changed when we're talking about vaughan gething. >> well, and i do put it to you as well, bill, that labour party is not that changed. we had zarah sultana standing up today. we've had david lammy talking about how he would essentially he'd i'm paraphrasing here, don't sue me, david. but he drank benjamin netanyahu to the hague kicking and screaming, wouldn't he? presumably that means that we would stop selling arms to israel as well. a massive shift in foreign policy there by by the labour party, i think i think most people would think i think most people would think to try to appease the

quote unquote muslim vote in britain. is it really that change the labour party? it's fundamentally changed. >> you look at the selection of parliamentary candidates that has been undertaken under keir starmer. it's been utterly ruthless and no one with a far left corbynite perspective has been able to get through. and i know the tories are going to try and, you know, create this impression over the coming six weeks that, you know, keir is the face for a still very left wing labour party. i don't think that's the case at all, you know, he's not a scary figure that comes across clearly in the polls. and i think that's going to cut, cut through during the campaign. i also agree that the reason i think that sunak has gone now , rather than waiting gone now, rather than waiting for the autumn, is they actually think that the polls aren't closing. there's no sign of them closing. there's no sign of them closing. and actually it could get worse because rwanda by the autumn is going to be shown not to be a deterrent. there are going to be no further tax cuts. and there's even been some feverish speculation around westminster today that the

rebels had enough letters. yeah, well, that's to mount a vote of no confidence. and that would have been toasted sooner. so he's gone earlier. >> yeah. lauren, let me just ask you about that actually, because thatis you about that actually, because that is a persistent rumour. yeah and can you shed any light whatsoever on what the scene was like behind the curtain there in downing street with letters of no confidence? what that could have meant, what it still could mean? >> i don't think for now. i think, you know, they've gone. that's it . i think, you know, they've gone. that's it. i don't think that it changes anything. if suddenly they announce, oh, there's all these letters. i think now that these letters. i think now that the statement is made, i think they that sort of puts an end to that. >> do you think that might have been a factor in today's decision? >> it's possible, but there's no way of knowing unless you're graham brady. and graham brady keeps these things so close to his chest. and i really hope that everyone's going to buy his bookin that everyone's going to buy his book in the autumn when it comes out, because i certainly am. and i can't wait to read all the things he's hopefully going to divulge that have really gone on in the last seven years. well interesting. >> now let's just deal with where we are right now in terms of what we're going to be getting. we're going to have to getting. we're going to have to

get something that resembles a manifesto from both of these parties at some point soon. so as of today, sir keir starmer six pledges, which were unveiled last week deliver economics, don't ask wes streeting to name all of these , by the way. all of these, by the way. deliver economic stability, cut nhs waiting times, launch a new border security command set up great british energy, crack down on antisocial behaviour . and on antisocial behaviour. and recruit 6500 teachers. can i just do a little comparison straight away with rishi sunak's five pledges halve inflation, grow the economy, reduce debt, cut waiting lists and we've also got in there as well, saying probably the most famous one, infamous one, maybe stop the boats. lauren, i'll start with you again on this. has rishi sunak done any of that? >> i think he's certainly been attempting to growing the economy. you know, the economy has shown to be growing. we aren't in the recession that we thought we were going to be in at the end of last year. the figures have been revised up again and probably will do so again and probably will do so again later in the year, halving inflation without doing

anything. basically, inflation was likely to halve this year, so that was a fairly easy one to meet without accidentally stuffing up. and yet what i said earlier is still the case. it sort of hasn't gone far enough to guarantee that they're going to guarantee that they're going to be rate cuts, but that's largely not the uk's fault. the fed in the us in december said they were anticipating six rate cuts this year, and they've revised that to one. so that's a global issue. debt falling. that's a problem in relation to the rest of the economic picture. the small boats issue is probably why he's chosen to gone early rather than late, because i suspect that that's going to be a problem this summer. >> summer. >> yeah. okay. and just to just to revisit what keir starmer has had to say as well, bill, you know, some of these deliver economic stability , cut nhs economic stability, cut nhs waiting times, launch new border security commands. that's a great british energy crackdown on anti—social behaviour. recruit 6500 teachers. i mean it's a little bit wishy washy isn't it? >> it's not. there are real echoes of the run up to 1997 here. small small, credible first steps without the flag. >> you mean ? >> you mean? >> you mean? >> look, we're in different times and it requires different

leadership, but small, credible changes on top of that, within the manifesto, you're going to see the commitment to a massive house building programme, both houses that are needed, but also to kick start the economy, and a strong programme of workers rights to increase security within the workplace. but but i think it's about credibility and the huge contrast between sunak and a failure to deliver, you know , the boats are not know, the boats are not stopping, the numbers are actually increasing . nhs waiting actually increasing. nhs waiting lists still at an all time high. the failure to deliver against a credible programme of change. and that's frankly what the country is crying out for. >> okay . interesting stuff. >> okay. interesting stuff. look, both of you. can i just say an absolutely massive thank you for everything so far tonight from both of you. let's just go now as well to i think we've got a little clip to actually play. yes. another little sign , i think of rishi little sign, i think of rishi sunak. this was this was him basically discussing his decision i think, wasn't it, to, to talk about the next election .

to talk about the next election. >> this morning we received the welcome news that inflation has returned to normal. now this is sign that our plan and our priorities are working. and i know you're only just starting to feel the benefits, but this hard won economic stability was only ever meant to be the beginning . and that's why i've beginning. and that's why i've called the election. now, i believe that our plan and the bold actions that we're prepared to take will deliver a secure future for you, your family , and future for you, your family, and our united kingdom. >> yes. okay so there we go. so thatis >> yes. okay so there we go. so that is rishi sunak dried off a little bit after re—announced the election. he says this is why i called the election. but i welcome now political correspondent for the spectator , correspondent for the spectator, james hill. now, james, you noficed james hill. now, james, you noticed something quite interesting earlier on, which is actually how woefully unprepared for this election the conservative party is. explain >> well, i was talking to some london tories earlier and there was a rather sort of irritated by about how sudden this was all thrust upon them, and they were actually saying that rather than

getting the people who were speaking at this event tonight, which i was at the first stump speech of the campaign, there's 100 or so. most of them actually were sort of tory candidates. and special advisers, rather than the kind of activists that, you know, of course, who four weeks ago, patrick, were out campaigning for susan hall, you know, the poor bloody infantry, as it were. >> yeah. it's interesting, though, isn't it, because i was having a look at one of your tweets earlier as well, james, you know, and you were saying about how few candidates, they actually appear to have ready to go. >> yes, of course, yes. this is the issue about how many actually candidates have been selected for certain areas. >> obviously, we know mps like chris heaton—harris in northern ireland. and also you know, theresa may in maidenhead are going to be standing there and there's a few sort of tory plum safe seats there, but there's also a lot of other marginals and seats where frankly, you know, a really good candidate could make a massive difference. and there are dozens and dozens, a dozen of these seats where basically you're going to have tory hq cchq, you're going to have to impose by—election rules, which means they'll get three candidates thrust on them. often there's the case, there's one semi—decent candidate and two no hopers. and so we're going to end up with some of these next time who, frankly, haven't been subjected to an

awful lot of scrutiny from local members. >> look, you are so plugged in. i often say, you know, you've got your finger on the pulse so much. you perform open heart surgery in the corridors of westminster. james, what was in your whatsapp today? give us a flavour of the kind of things that people were messaging you today. james, i think some of them i can't read out on polite society, but, there was a lot of shock, a lot of surprise, shall we say, one of them compared it to the charge of the light brigade. another then said that, unfortunately, the charge of the light brigade only had 40% fatality. so, i think look, there's a lot of doom and gloom from mps. interestingly, you know, some of the people around, you know, kind of, you know, special adviser type level, etc. are actually quite pumped up for this fight. they think that not enough scrutiny is being given to sir keir starmer. they're looking forward to taking their policy area to the to the shadow cabinet. but i think, you know, a real divide in the tory party tonight as they consider six weeks time election day. >> yeah that is going to be something we're going to be discussing about later on in this show. what level of scrutiny have we actually seen from sir keir starmer and some of that front bench? i brought up what the front benches are going to be like a little bit

earlier on. we'll do it again later as well. but that is really what people are voting for. what are their views on things. and just in the last week, there's been a flavour, i think a flavour of a couple of things to the labour party, more men and women's changing rooms. you could easily sell that as the old easier to change gender stuff. you can also certainly pick them apart when it comes to israel and foreign policy. what else will there be? i expect taxation could be another big one, but james heale there from the spectator. thank you very much, my good man. you're going to be a busy boy over the next six weeks, so i hope to see you again very soon. and i am going to introduce and welcome into the fray now, conservative mp tobias ellwood. tobias, thank you very much. were you caught by surprise today? >> no, not at all. >> no, not at all. >> i mean, i try and look at these things more strategically. when you look at the number of elections that are taking place across the world, two of the biggest ones are in britain and the united states. >> we cannot go to the polls at the same time. to do so would encourage , opposition, encourage, opposition, competitors, our adversaries , to competitors, our adversaries, to take advantage of us being distracted. >> and i'm sure conversations

took place between number 10 and washington to ensure that we perhaps went early, we could have gone late in december, but that obviously wouldn't have been possible, because obviously trump's election, with biden was going to happen on that fixed date. that's why i think we've ended up with july. >> what do you make of the way that he did it today in the pounng that he did it today in the pouring rain with the megaphone, playing music along the side of him? it's not a good look. tobias >> no, it's unfortunate , but the >> no, it's unfortunate, but the battle commences. you know the rumours today were everywhere. but the king has now been informed. the announcements have been made outside number 10. let's get on with it. let's get on with it. you know, many of us have been knowing this is going to be happening in the next month. so you can't say it's without a surprise. oh my goodness. there's going to be an election. we should all be prepared for this. and not taking away it will be the toughest election that i've fought. it's been a turbulent penod fought. it's been a turbulent period in british politics. in

some cases would have tested any occupant at number 10, but that starting gun has been fired. and actually the backdrop that we now see ourselves in, with inflation falling to 2, you know, growth better than in the continent and so forth, business confidence returning . we've got confidence returning. we've got much to much play for, if anything, we've just got to sort ourselves out. we've got to show a sense of purpose, a sense of vigour, a sense of unity that we actually want to do. this beanng actually want to do. this bearing in mind that all manifestos will now be scrutinised because you were just touching on there just before, labour's really got away with it for some time because we've hogged the headlines for the wrong reasons. so we're going to have those leadership debates as well . it's going to debates as well. it's going to be interesting, but it's up to us to make the case and in most cases this is clinton's got it right. it's the economy that still counts. the economy is so important. if we can show that we're, you know, proper, responsible custodians of the economy with a fair chance. >> how much? yeah. how much of this tobias relies on rwanda working? how much of this relies on those flights taking off in

that, in that, in that first few days he's got four days really in july to get a plane off the ground. >> i think that's one aspect that's everybody's pushed this off to be totemic. you know, that's one element for which some people find it very , very some people find it very, very important indeed. i stress again, most people are more concerned about their wallets, about their bank accounts, about looking after their families, of getting through the cost of living crisis . and what we've living crisis. and what we've seen, as is manage that. we've moved into far calmer fiscal waters politically, we're into calmer political waters as well. and the other aspect of this, which you and i have discussed many times, i was getting more dangerous, not less who's best to lead us to be able to protect british interests, to advance our defence posture , to make our defence posture, to make sure that our economy that's so globally exposed is actually protected? these are the big questions that are how do you go after keir starmer? >> you know, are you guys going to go on the front foot a bit here in the last couple of weeks? i'll keep banging on about this. but literally in the last week you've had the gender

stuff from keir starmer, which you could easily sell us on. if you could easily sell us on. if you vote for labour, it means more blokes in women's changing rooms that doesn't go down well. we know that from the snp. you could easily sell what's going on in israel at the moment. labourin on in israel at the moment. labour in the in the pocket of the pro—palestine marches , are the pro—palestine marches, are they is that how you go at keir starmer? what do you do. >> well, that is one approach. i don't believe that just telling people what's wrong with the other side is going to win you. that's populism, okay? that's opportunism that doesn't show that you've got the responsibility where you take britain , all it does is say what britain, all it does is say what labour would do badly. well we can figure that out anyway. what we need to do is actually show where we're going, how we're going to lead the country. and i stress again that given where we are economically now, we need to look at ourselves and show that we have the passion, the discipline, the unity, that sense of purpose, that vigour to stay in number 10, i'm afraid that sense of purpose has been suboptimal. let's be honest about that. so if we want to narrow the polls, you know, if we want to get that towards a

hung parliament or win or indeed, you know, lose well, let alone lose badly, all those variations are actually up to us. >> us. >> and one thing that i'm, one thing that we're going to be talking about very shortly, we're going to hear from him as well. is nigel farage. he's deciding, apparently, and announcing tomorrow at 11 am. whether or not he's going to run, how much of a concern is reform uk to you? >> well, nigel farage should ask himself whether he wants a labour government or a conservative government it's as simple as that. and if he wants the labour of a government, then step up, you know, push reform because all they're going to do is deny people the deny the support the conservatives. and in many marginal seats that will see the pendulum tilt towards laboun see the pendulum tilt towards labour. and then you get a labour. and then you get a labour government . is that labour government. is that really what nigel farage wants? >> well, well we'll have to wait and see. we'll find out won't we. we'll find out. tobias, thank you very, very much. that's tobias ellwood, our conservative mp. let me just reintroduce to the fray the voting intention just to ground ourselves in all of this. so this is where we actually are. so you take all the noise today out of it. this is the latest

voting intention. labour on 43. the conservatives on 26. lib dems there on ten. reform on nine. the greens on five and the snp on three. i am still joined now by bill rammell and lauren mckevitt as well. bill, i'll start with you. you know, he's he's talking he's talking relatively tough there, isn't he, tobias ellwood saying, you know, labour are going to come under absolutely massive scrutiny now. and i think one of the areas they're going to come under scrutiny is the economy. he said. it's the economy stupid. well inflation is at its lowest level for nearly three years. the tories there could say they've steadied the ship. we are staring down the barrel of tax cuts. but if you vote laboun of tax cuts. but if you vote labour, non—doms and vat on private schools probably won't cut it, you'll probably end up with i'm just reading this off here. more inheritance tax, more capital gains cutting tax relief on pensions contributions, battering second home owners and even introducing a wealth tax. he'd vote for that. >> but that's not what's going to happen. you know, the labour party has been absolutely clear. we know we've got the biggest tax burden since the second world war. we know that's

hitting people hard and we're not going to commit to, you know , huge spending increases backed up , huge spending increases backed ”p by , huge spending increases backed up by tax rises. the only way we're going to get the level of pubuc we're going to get the level of public spending that we need is through improved economic growth and therefore stability, ending the chaos. a huge house building programme to kick start the economy is part of the way that we get that. but also tobias talks about division . you know, talks about division. you know, david campbell bannerman, the voice of the grassroots coming on your programme the day the prime minister calls the general election and massively criticising him . the tory party criticising him. the tory party is riven from top to bottom. the pubuc is riven from top to bottom. the public recognises that and that's why . and it's part of the that's why. and it's part of the reason that we're going to get lauren. >> i'm going to ask you to sell the conservative party now, if you don't mind , to our to our to you don't mind, to our to our to our viewers, to our listeners, because , you know, it's looking because, you know, it's looking like a tricky job at the moment. >> i actually think that you're not entirely wrong. i think labour are going to come into power if they do come into power

and revert to type and say that they're going to start taxing, that they're going to introduce a wealth tax, i think they're going to have enormous pressure on trying to change how taxation is, is weighted within the united kingdom between generations, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but i think that labour are going to , think that labour are going to, revert to what they always do, which is to end up with a higher tax burden. and the one we've got at the moment is unsustainable. >> anyway, this is the biggest i'm really sorry, i'm going to cut across to you because i have just received a message from our political editor, christopher hope.so political editor, christopher hope. so strap yourselves in here, extraordinary. but true. some furious conservative mps are tonight working on a plot to call off the general election by replacing rishi sunak as leader before parliament is dissolved next thursday. one rebel tory mp tells me. that's christopher hope that he believes several more letters of no confidence in sunak have been submitted to graham brady. today. the mp , graham brady. today. the mp, who's unnamed, says today has clearly been an absolute disaster but the election is not irrevocable. up until the point of the dissolution of

parliament, when the writs are moved to begin the contest, it can still be aborted. in other words, if enough tory mps who are clearly going to lose their seats in this already utterly shambolic campaign write to sir graham brady tomorrow. the election could still be revoked. lauren, your reaction . lauren, your reaction. >> i don't know about the 22 rules on once an election has been called and versus versus when dissolution actually shows up because one is one is a parliamentary procedure and one is a conservative party procedure. and they may actually be in some conflict there. i do, however, think that once an election announcement comes, everybody's got to start rowing in the same direction. we can't use this as an opportunity to fight like ferrets in a sack, because no one's going to vote for us. >> and it's really stupid things with respect, it looks like it's happening really, really dumb to go down that road because all that ends up happening is you look like you can't run the country. >> combat, chaos and division demonstrated before our eyes and

the cut through phrase in keir starmer's press conference this afternoon was country first, party second. and what we've seen from the tory party over the last 14 years is party first every time. >> okay, right. both of you, thank you. and sorry to spring that little bit of breaking news on it. but there's the joy of live television. on a general election announcement evening, isn't it, both of you. thank you very much. really, really top drawer stuff that bill rammell there and lauren mckevitt as well. now there is a man whose name is, well, who's not been not been as prominent as it as it might have been, but nigel farage has reacted initially. this is how this is. this is how he initially reacted. okay, so rishi sunak standing on the steps of downing street getting rained on while steve bray screamed him through a megaphone. here is nigel's hot take. >> there it is, july the 4th, independence day in america, and for this country, deliverance day from a bunch of charlatans who call themselves conservatives but govern as big state liberals. i mean, look at it. look at the images. the

state liberals. i mean, look at it. look at the images . the lack it. look at the images. the lack of professionalism is unbelievable. to stand there getting soaked in the rain, to read from the notes like a robot without passion, without belief, without passion, without belief, without vim, without vigour. but it sums up 14 years of conservatism why they are going to get wiped in this election . to get wiped in this election. but what he has done, he's chosen suicide over total obliteration. because as the months go by, it will get worse and worse and worse. no planes will go to rwanda whatsoever. got to tell you, i don't like the look of a labour government one little bit. but this lot, having betrayed brexit, having betrayed everything i gave them in 2019, all the help i gave them back five years ago deserve everything that is coming to them. >> wow. so that was nigel initially, just moments after rishi sunak announcing a general election and then later on gb news. he said this fight, the election. >> as for what i do, i'll think about it overnight. >> so that's no commitment

either way. >> no commitment either way from me at the moment. i will think about it overnight and get this reform . reform. >> have announced a press conference at 11 am. tomorrow. so at 11 am. tomorrow, it's looking likely that we will find out , all of looking likely that we will find out, all of us, looking likely that we will find out , all of us, whether looking likely that we will find out, all of us, whether or not nigel farage is officially back. this is going to be probably the biggest news story of the day tomorrow. help me look ahead. i'm joined now by former conservative minister ann widdecombe. ann, your reaction to whether or not nigel farage will come back ? will come back? >> well, he will do us a by us i mean reform a power of good. if he does come back, he will almost certainly send, you know, our percentage , which in most our percentage, which in most polls, at any rate, is now well into the teens, he will undoubtedly add a few percent of that, he will invigorate the campaign . he will be a huge campaign. he will be a huge challenge to both conservative and labour. so i very much hope he does, but even if he doesn't,

reform will now go full steam ahead. i mean, all that sunak has done today , apart from has done today, apart from apparently demonstrating that there was no such thing as an umbrella in downing street, are all he's actually done today, is to hand the opposition power six months before he had to. and if anybody understands that don't. >> okay. i mean, some people will say, look , rishi sunak has will say, look, rishi sunak has got inflation down to his lowest levels in nearly three years. the economy is looking in better shape than it has done for a little while, he's also got the visa dependence, the number of people, bringing family visas, i suppose you could call it. that's down. we're expecting the net migration figures out tomorrow. there's no way. i mean, touch wood, touch everything . there's no way everything. there's no way they're going to be higher than they're going to be higher than they were last year or the year before or so. maybe now is the right time. has he even got the eu singing to his tune over rwanda? so is he going to get a better time than this , i think, better time than this, i think, no time is good for him, quite honestly, you're there saying,

you know, that he's got inflation down and the economy is much better than it was, than it was when i mean, during covid, immediately after covid. of course, it's better now , than of course, it's better now, than it was then. and as for rwanda , it was then. and as for rwanda, honestly, patrick, i'm tired of heanng honestly, patrick, i'm tired of hearing about rwanda. i believe it when the planes take off. >> yeah, no, i think i think that's fair enough, to be honest. and actually, rishi sunak started his speech today. am in the driving rain. okay. and he then decided to start it by, talking about that time that the government locked us all down in relentlessly and shattered the economy with some of the decisions that were being made there by the likes of chris whitty, etc. what a way to launch an election campaign. what do you make of that? >> well , as i what do you make of that? >> well, as i say, you what do you make of that? >> well , as i say, you know, >> well, as i say, you know, i didn't find that a performance impressive on several levels, but if i were going into an election campaign, i would be talking about all the positive, and what, what i intended to do ,

and what, what i intended to do, and what, what i intended to do, and i can only assume that he's rather short of those . rather short of those. >> i mean, one of the big noises out tonight, and i am just going to reiterate this, because this this is just coming through to us here @gbnews so forgive me as i read this again, but this is from our political editor , from our political editor, christopher hope. okay. and it is absolutely extraordinary what he is saying and that there is a currently a coup going on to try to stop the general election from taking place. i mean, that is remarkable stuff. conservative mps submitting letters to graham brady, having had submitted letters to sir graham brady, the chairman of the backbench 22 committee, he says extraordinary , if true. says extraordinary, if true. some furious conservative mps are working tonight on a plot, to call off the general election . he doesn't say if true, he says it is true. so it is this is true, christopher hope. he's always bang on the money and he's saying that they are desperately trying to stop the election . election. >> well, i mean, first of all, you say it's remarkable. it

should be remarkable. but it's so entirely typical of all the infighting that's gone on and all the undermining of rishi sunak position that's gone on oven sunak position that's gone on over, you know, the last couple of years, that is not remarkable at all. it's almost predictable, but it just shows you what an utterly chaotic circus they are, and the only choice , if it were and the only choice, if it were just keir starmer is choice between chaos and no policies at all. yeah >> look, let me stick with this breaking line that we're getting here @gbnews from our political edhon here @gbnews from our political editor, which is there is an ongoing plot to call off the election. i think i might know why. i think we all probably know why, but here's how many seats each party is projected to win. if the general election was held today , labour 443, held today, labour 443, conservatives 124. lib dems 43. the snp 19. greens two. let me the snp19. greens two. let me reiterate that labour 443 seats, the conservatives to down 124,

the conservatives to down 124, the lib dems on 40, the snp on 19, the greens on two. is that why the tories want to call it off, ann? >> well, almost certainly because, as i've said, he's just handing power to the opposition, you know, six months before he actually has it. and so i can imagine that tories who are about to lose their seats, lose their livelihoods, probably do think, well, you know , we should think, well, you know, we should have another six months. but i mean, the idea that you can stop a prime minister calling a general election is, is far fetched. >> so the majority for labour, there will be 236. apparently. that's my math isn't great, but that's what i believe it is. it will be a 236 seat majority for the labour party, which is apparently why now, if you are just joining us, there is an ongoing plot, apparently to submit enough letters to sir graham brady to call this election off and with respect, this is the exact kind of chaos that when we compare this with the way that sir keir starmer deau the way that sir keir starmer dealt with today's announcement, he was standing in a room . he he was standing in a room. he had the two union flags behind

him. he was dry there was nobody shouting through a megaphone with him as well. and he had a very simple message and it was a one word thing on a plinth that just said change and, and i wonder if they've actually got that better than the tories on this. >> i have got it better than the tories, but that doesn't take much doing, does it? hey, starmer doesn't offer change, every policy and i could go through them yet again. every policy that he's announced, he's reversed. sometimes in very short order indeed. he doesn't stand for change. reform alone stands for real change. the question is , will people have question is, will people have the courage to go down that route? okay >> and a lot of people will be saying now, and indeed, i do know a lot of conservative voters that do say with absolute respect, ann, that there is no point bothering to vote for reform. we've had richard tice making his election announcement from what looked like a hotel room today. you are going to hand the keys to the labour party, aren't you? so what's the point of voting reform, am i

right? >> let me just spell it out . >> let me just spell it out. vote tory, get starmer, vote starmer , get starmer, vote for starmer, get starmer, vote for real change. vote for reform and you get reform. as i say, it's a question of people now finding the courage to do it. but the idea that reform is going to cost the tories the election when they cannot beat starmer anyway, is just ridiculous . anyway, is just ridiculous. >> and thank you very, very much. that is that is ann widdecombe there reacting to a heck of a lot of news. i'm just going to reiterate to everybody at home this breaking announcement from our political edhon announcement from our political editor. okay, extraordinary but true. some furious conservative mps just not working on a plot to call off the general election by replacing rishi sunak as leader before parliament is dissolved next thursday. christopher hope is bang on it. we will keep you right up to date here. now when i return after the weather, i'm going to have a very special guest . we have a very special guest. we have a very special guest. we have got a labour frontbencher, it's jonathan reynolds and i think it's fair to say he's got a heck of a lot to answer for as

this general election gets going. today is the day people, let's do it . let's do it. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello. good evening. here's your latest gb news weather update brought to you by the met office. it's been a very wet day for many of us today , and the for many of us today, and the rain is going to continue for many parts as we go overnight. all this unsettled weather is in association with an area of low pressure that is gradually making its way northwestwards, but it's progressing pretty slowly and the rain as a result is going to linger across many northern parts of the uk as we go through this evening and overnight, it's going to be heavy and persistent for many parts, which is why we're going to continue to see rainfall totals building up, leading to some issues . temperatures aren't some issues. temperatures aren't going to drop a huge amount because of the unsettled weather, even in the south, where it's going to be largely dry, likely to stay in double digits as we go through tomorrow. then a bit of a north

south split across northern parts. it is going to be wet and we'll see rain through the morning. two the rain doesn't look like it will be as heavy as through today, but because of the high rainfall totals we've seen recently, there could be some further issues making flooding a little bit worse in some places. also, heavy rain across parts of eastern northern ireland, northern england and north wales in particular. like i said, some further ongoing issues, some more disruption to travel possible a drier story further south. quite cloudy through the morning though i am expecting some bright or sunny spells to develop as we head into the afternoon , particularly into the afternoon, particularly across parts of east anglia and southeast england. here there's a good chance of seeing some sunshine and in the sunshine here it should feel pleasantly warm. temperatures likely to peak just about in the low 20s towards the southeast. further north and west, where you have the rain, temperatures will be suppressed. some places staying in single digits. and watch out for some blustery winds towards the northwest as we look towards friday, and there will still be some further outbreaks of rain, especially across northern parts. though these look fairly

light and there will be some dry spells in between. further south, likely to stay mostly dry, and there may even be some bright or sunny spells developing. saturday looks set to be the driest and sunniest day of the weekend, before a bit more rain on sunday for many. see you later! >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> welcome back to a very special episode of patrick christys tonight here on gb news. it's a massive show for a massive day. the general election is on. it's on on july the 4th. there is a heck of a lot to pick the bones out of , lot to pick the bones out of, but we're going to start with labour because we're joined now by shadow business secretary jonathan reynolds. jonathan, look, thank you very much for joining us tonight a big day. it's fair to say can i just start now because labour are going to be scrutinised in a way that perhaps, maybe they haven't been previously. can i start with you on immigration? when it

comes to things like rwanda, eu countries are looking to copy us now, 15 of them. if labour decides to stop rwanda, does that not make us look ridiculous? and look like brexit? britain doesn't care about controlling our borders . about controlling our borders. >> no it doesn't. and good evening . it has been quite an evening. it has been quite an interesting day, hasn't it? no. look on illegal immigration, right. it's an incredibly serious issue. and the choice that the election, because it is a big choice election is whether you want gimmicks, whether you want a huge amount of money wasted on things that will make no impact on it. i mean, the government got 100,000 people nearly in hotels, costing £8 million a day. if they take 300 of those people to rwanda for half £1 billion, that doesn't fix the problem. we'll take that resource . we'll put it into the resource. we'll put it into the proper border command that is necessary to have the real action against criminal gangs that are behind this and really enforcing it. if you're spending so much money on illegal immigration, on something which is not going to make any substantial difference, that is completely unjustifiable. so it's one of the choices people will have in this election. and to be frank, you'll see this

across a whole range of areas. if people are happy with how things are at the minute, of course they will stick with rishi sunak and the conservative party. but if they want something different, something better, if they want change, it's a vote for labour that will do that. and labour can say, we can say we can be the change the country needs because we look at how we've changed since 2019, look at how we've had the humility to respond to that record defeat and be competitive. now there's a long way to go , but we can be proud way to go, but we can be proud of where we've got to, and we can be the change. >> can i just say, i know you're very keen to say that. i do suspect, mr reynolds, that one thing you're less keen to say is that currently under the illegal migration act, which was passed in july last year, it effectively bars anyone who comes to the uk illegally from claiming asylum. well labour has apparently clarified a few weeks ago that those people potentially between 90,000, possibly 115,000, will be entitled to claim asylum. can you confirm that ? you confirm that? >> well, what's the alternative? keeping them in hotels at the cost of £80 million, £8 million

a day, indefinitely? they're going to have to reply. and if they haven't got a right to be in the uk, they've got to go. and if they have a right to be in the uk, if we're going to accept those people, we can integrate them into british society and they can benefit from putting something back into the uk rather than just be that mean the halfway house we have at the minute. so it's about a serious policy rather than a gimmick that will make no difference and cost the country a lot of money. >> that serious policy, though, mr reynolds, does mean that the asylum backlog is probably going to increase almost overnight by around 90,000 people, though, doesit around 90,000 people, though, does it not? under a labour government ? government? >> well, it means that we would have a huge amount of money that we're not going to spend on rwanda because the costs of that have already gone to over half a billion pounds. and we can put it into the kinds of things that will make a difference. and crucially, patrick, we can say if you're spending under the conservative party £8 million a day, you can take some of that money and employ caseworkers, process those claims, get people integrated if they should be here, if they've got a right to be here, and if they haven't,

they've got to leave. the alternative. just having people at a huge cost to the uk without ever resolving the issue is just not a serious approach. but that is the approach, as you say, the conservative party have taken at the minute. >> all right. i just want to whiz it over to foreign policy now, if that's all right, because david lammy essentially would support calls to have benjamin netanyahu arrested if the icc decides that labour also i was hearing today, is quite keen on recognising the palestinian state, a free palestine that salman rushdie said would be a terrorist state is a vote for labour, a vote to make an enemy of israel ? make an enemy of israel? >> and no, it's not. and it's very clear to say that what david lammy has actually said is we support international institutions, whether that's the united nations or the international criminal court. it's not for ourselves to make ourselves part of those deliberations, but we support the rule of law internationally as a as a country. the uk has always supported those institutions because we recognise that's in our interest to do so. and when it comes to israel and the palestinians, what we want to see is a real

peace process.