gb news. >> good morning, and welcome to the camilla tominey show . well, the camilla tominey show. well, it's been an extraordinary week in westminster. following on from the prime minister's rain soaked announcement of a july 4th election. and we're going to be starting six very intense weeks of political coverage . weeks of political coverage. we've got that date fixed. to the surprise of many of the prime minister's tory colleagues, labour and indeed reform . will fortune favour the reform. will fortune favour the brave, or has the pm gambled away the keys to number 10.7 the home secretary, james cleverly, will be here to share his take on all of this. will be here to share his take on all of this . i'll also be on all of this. i'll also be asking the former defence secretary and gb news presenter , secretary and gb news presenter, michael portillo, for his thoughts on whether a number of tories who have stood down may have done so to avoid their own

portillo moment. he doesn't mind me using that language, by the way . we'll also be speaking way. we'll also be speaking about whether challenges from the lib dems and independent candidates will also play a part on the result night. nigel farage will be joining me in the studio. i'll be getting to the bottom of why he suddenly decided not to stand as an mp , decided not to stand as an mp, amid rumours he was just days away from announcing that he was intending to run for reform. shadow work and pensions secretary liz kendall will be here to share whether we're close to hearing what will be in sir keir starmer's long awaited manifesto , and i'll be asking manifesto, and i'll be asking former chancellor kwasi kwarteng whether he thinks the tories can win on july the 4th, despite the bookies putting the chances at just 2. it's going to be a roller coaster. 90 minutes of packed political thinking do not even think of going anywhere . even think of going anywhere. this . who better on this day of

this. who better on this day of days to go through the sunday newspapers .7 and michael newspapers? and michael portillo, former defence secretary and my fellow gb news presenter. he is, of course, on air. at 11. he's doing a double shift with us this morning. and by the way, it's his birthday. many happy returns. >> thank you michael, and good morning camilla. >> you're the perfect person to comment on the idea of bringing back national service. it's all over the front pages. i think the mail on sunday got the scoop initially because the prime minister has written an opinion piece for them saying that he would be happy to his see his own two daughters do their national service. is this a good idea, michael? i think the announcement has brought the electoral campaign alive. >> it's the most interesting thing that has happened so far. i think the idea has lots to recommend it. it has a number of merits. the arguments that the prime minister indeed is making, that it brings society together, that it brings society together, that it's a way also of adding to our resilience as a country. however, the way in which this policy has been produced worries me very much indeed. that is to say, i very much doubt whether it's been thought through. i

very much doubt whether the armed services and all the charities that need to be involved have been consulted and are on board. it represents an increase in public expenditure, and that's very important because it puts the conservatives on the back foot, because on the whole, the conservatives should be saying we've got clear plans. we're the government now asks labour how they're going to find the extra money. yes. now this reverses all that because now labour can say, the conservatives are making promises which aren't funded and the conservatives are saying vaguely the 1.5 billion or 2 billion could be paid for by clamping down on tax avoidance. he won't have consulted conservative members of parliament or candidates who will now have to defend this policy on the doorstep, whether they like it or not. and one of they like it or not. and one of the reasons they might not like it is it's another extension of the state. and rishi sunak seems to be absolutely in love with the state. yes. you know, the party that brought us lockdown and furlough? yes. and the ban on smoking, which has not been legislated as it labour says they will reintroduce it because

they will reintroduce it because they love big state. >> let's be honest. >> let's be honest. >> but but do they love it more than rishi sunak? i mean here is rishi sunak now saying that all sons and daughters around 18 should be doing some element of national service. i mean, if the idea had been debate over the last couple of years and the case had been made for it and the groundwork has been laid, yes, it might be a terrific policy in these circumstances. i think it looks i think it's going to be a lot of trouble for the tories, a little bit desperate. >> does it look as if they've got into a room and thought, right, what can we do to try and convince people watching gb news, who might be flirting with the idea of voting for reform to come back to us? there is a refrain bring back national service. we've all heard it. incidentally, i just checked the telegraph website earlier before we came on, and we put an online poll up there, and 8000 are in favour and 2000 are against. so it might well appeal to righties. >> that is interesting, but it depends which sort of writer you are. because if you're the sort of righty as i am, who cares about public spending, you might be quite suspicious of it . and be quite suspicious of it. and if you're worried about how big the state is as i am, you might be quite suspicious of it. so

i'm not at all sure that it will, in the end, unite gb news viewers and i'm not at all clear that it's going to unite. the conservative party should we go back to wednesday and talk about sunaks soggy start ? sunaks soggy start? >> where were you when you heard the news, michael? i was in the dentist, i think. >> were you at 230, sorry. pardon, pardon ? the bad crack a pardon, pardon? the bad crack a joke, you were in the dentist , joke, you were in the dentist, presumably. did you feel more pain when you emerged from the dentist and saw this announcement for the tory party >> well, of course, like so many people, i thought, how could the thing have been so catastrophically mismanaged? yeah how could you possibly stick a prime minister out in a rainstorm with. >> also, he's not a fair weather politician, he pointed out afterwards . afterwards. >> however, also with all the with all the noise, i mean, yes , with all the noise, i mean, yes, we've more or less lost control of the streets of london, so there's bound to be a megaphone out. >> to be fair, we all know, don't we? anyone that has ever gone into westminster on a wednesday knows that stop brexit man steve bray is there with a loudspeaker, a loudhailer,

megaphone. >> and even if you weren't, because for about two hours people pretty much knew there was going to be an announcement, there was time for anyone with a megaphone to get there. yeah, that's right. but i mean, you know, there is an interior to number 10. it has an inside as well as an outside. >> there could have been well, i've spent millions on that covid briefing room. why not do it. >> could have done it from the house of commons. they could have hired the methodist hall. >> he said he wanted to be a traditionalist. and i think that's interesting. there's a bit of a tale of two stories going on in the papers today, because you've got the sunday express saying five reasons why. it was a good idea to call the election when he did. then you've got the observer, quite predictably, sort of saying the whole thing's been a gaffe prone mess from start to finish. so the express is doing its best to put put the you know, good spin on this, but at least two of its reasons are very unheroic that there's no stopping the boats. >> so they're going to be arriving all summer, so might as well have the election before the numbers get even worse than they are. and the other is that it's not at all clear that the economy is going to get better. it might get worse. so those two reasons as to why he's done the

right thing in calling the election are, as i would describe them, very unheroic reasons. i think the only one of the reasons listed by the express that i give any credence to, and you've touched on it a moment ago, is that i think it has been quite disruptive to reform. >> yes. >> yes. >> now it's very interesting. you're going to be speaking to nigel farage. i wonder what's going on there. but a lot of conservative candidates will now be extremely relieved . yes. that be extremely relieved. yes. that farage is not standing. >> well, i'm going to ask nigel, does he appreciate that he's handed a gift to rishi sunak in not standing , isn't there some not standing, isn't there some sense in this positioning of rishi sunak being quite presidential ? well, one of the presidential? well, one of the reasons he said himself why he stood in downing street is because he's a traditionalist and he's the prime minister. and that's the way the prime minister does things. he didn't want to be indoors, because when you address the public, you address them from the downing street podium. okay. fair point . street podium. okay. fair point. so the conservatives now are very much making this a blues versus red punch up between safer with sunak and in peril with starmer . let's be honest,

with starmer. let's be honest, starmer never expected to be in this position. he came in thinking he was neil kinnock , thinking he was neil kinnock, having to be an opposition leader facing an 80 seat majority with boris johnson, you know, rampaging around the country campaigning and doing the thing that boris does. >> i don't know of any tradition that it takes. you have to stand outside rather than inside downing street. i cannot imagine margaret thatcher standing there looking drowned in the rain. can you? it just it perish the thought. it simply would not have happened, however. i mean, it is about time we talked about starmer . i it is about time we talked about starmer. i don't think he's had a great campaign so far either, by any means . a great campaign so far either, by any means. he's finding it very hard to answer questions. he's extremely vague and listening to a listener and viewer feedback from shows that he's been on. a lot of people are saying, this man has no answers to any of the questions . answers to any of the questions. now, i saw the conservative campaign would be about six weeks of exposing starmer's uncertainty and lack of clarity. but of course, by introducing

the, national service idea, we're now going to have at least a week of focus on that. and that means a week that we don't focus on whether starmer has any answers. so i'm not sure you see whether the national service announcement doesn't act against the campaign strategy. >> well, also, i agree that the strongest campaign strategy is to say they don't have a plan. he's floundering. he's acting like he's a professor of politics, sort of theorising what he might come up with in the manifesto without actually nailing his colours to the mast. and, you know, he's flip flopped more than a havaianas shop, but at the same time , this is going at the same time, this is going to be one of many policy drops. i was told by somebody at downing street yesterday, you know. yeah, national service is just the beginning. we've got a whole week or two planned of dropping these policy bombshells as well. >> a bombshell is quite a good metaphor because it's not quite clear whom they injure most. i mean , if they're going to be mean, if they're going to be more policy announcements that have not been consulted with the tory party, you imagine now you're a candidate on the doorstep . yes, you may be you

doorstep. yes, you may be you may be someone who is a member of parliament, or you may be doing it for the first time, but you now have to defend this policy of introducing national service. well, in no way were you consulted about it. and you don't know the details and goodness knows how strong the details are. i mean, is someone from the armed forces going to say we absolutely welcome. this is a terrific idea. i suppose there had to be careful what they say because we're doing an election campaign . but as we election campaign. but as we know, you know, the armed forces aren't very keen on this sort of thing because they feel that their you know, they're getting involved in a kind of social service because putting someone in for a year, particularly if they're not particularly willing, does not at the other end produce a particularly good soldier. but it may, by the way, produce a better human being. i'm absolutely it may well do so, but we might not get military chiefs speaking out against it. >> but you're a former defence secretary. you've suggested it's not the wisest of plans . i secretary. you've suggested it's not the wisest of plans. i think michael fallon in the past has questioned the wisdom of national service, making the point that the armed forces have

got a job on their hands to make sure that they're training the recruits that are willingly there, let alone people who are sort of forced into it. >> well, i think i could be persuaded if long enough were given. and, you know, if the case had been set out and had been argued over a period of time, possibly i would be persuadable, because i do understand that in the in the present situation that we find ourselves with a very aggressive russia, that to have an increasing cadre of people with some experience of the military. yes might be quite useful. i mean, it begins to constitute a bit more of a reserve. so whilst i don't think they're probably be brilliant soldiers by the end of the year, if, on the other hand, you needed them at some other point they would have some experience. so i go back to my very first point. i don't say the idea is without merit. i think it has quite strong merits, but the way in which it's been produced worries me very much. >> should we talk about portillo moments ? yes. do we mind saying, moments? yes. do we mind saying, are you happy with me saying that there are some tory mps that there are some tory mps that appear to have jumped ship because they feared they may have a portillo moment? yes. and

this is the idea of sort of the ousting of a big beast on election night, which is something you personally experienced. this is suspicious suspicion with michael gove. yes. deciding he's going to stand down in surrey heath where a little bit like jeremy hunt, he's got the liberal democrats breathing down his neck. is that why you think he's done it? michael >> i think it's very, very possible. but i also say another word and it's just about courtesy. members of parliament got elected because they have, constituency associations that have worked very hard to them and given them tremendous loyalty. i think it is the most profound discourtesy to give up your seat when the election is announced. if you want to leave, you should give six months or 12 months notice. these poor constituencies now are scrabbling around to find candidates , the ones that are candidates, the ones that are won in this case by the conservatives will they be certain that the candidate they've chosen is of quality ? they've chosen is of quality? will they have had time to do background checks and all this sort of thing? yes, but i think members of parliament who leave at the last moment like this are using their constituencies like

a public convenience, i really do, i think so discourteous. >> you're really angry about it. >> you're really angry about it. >> i really am angry. >> i really am angry. >> but you were there in 97. you have to stand up. you have to face the music. if you lose and you become this kind of totem for the failure of your own party, you've got to own it. life continues. life goes on. you think it's lacking in courage to give up? >> yeah, well, i don't know what michael's. i don't think there's any lack in courage in deciding you want to leave parliament. i just think, as a matter of courtesy, you've got to make the announcement at the right time. yes, i mean, it seems so ungrateful to all the people who worked for you, for all these years just to say. oh, well, i'm off now and good luck. and i don't care what kind of stew you're left in trying to find a decent show on a macro level, because the record now has been beaten. >> so in 97, 75, tory mps announced that they weren't standing. it's now at 78. and it's not just gove. let's be honest . andrea leadsom and honest. andrea leadsom and others are also thrown in the towel. jo jo churchill at the

last minute greg clark, a former business secretary, but it shows a complete lack of confidence in the tories election strategy and indeed rishi sunak as well. >> well , we indeed rishi sunak as well. >> well, we hear that michael gove congratulated the prime minister urge the prime minister to take this decision, said it was bold , blah blah blah, but was bold, blah blah blah, but apparently not bold enough to be part of the team during the election and not bold enough to be a candidate at the election . be a candidate at the election. so i think that doesn't look very good. i just want to make a rather pedantic point. i think a portillo moment is a is a big beast losing his or her seat that was not predicted. yes true. >> that's very true. >> that's very true. >> at the moment. >> at the moment. >> it was a bolt from the blue for you. >> we're predicting it could be penny mordaunt. we're predicting it could be kemi badenoch, etc, etc. but i think for it to be a portillo moment, it's someone that was never thought about. i mean, that would have to be what rishi sunak , perish the thought. rishi sunak, perish the thought. >> right. michael's going to stay with me because we're going to talk in a moment about the lib dem threat to the conservatives. and we're also

going to be talking about independents like jeremy corbyn and whether they may affect the labour vote. back in a sec

welcome back to the camilla tominey show on gb news. now, we had hoped that we might have a liberal democrat to represent the party, to represent the yellows on the show, but unfortunately, they weren't putting anyone forward for the show this weekend. so instead, what we're going to do is have a look at what sir ed davey, the liberal democrat leader, said yesterday in chichester when he explained the difference between the lib dems and the labour party. >> listen, the liberal democrats have got a fantastic set of policies on the health service, on the economy and on the environment. today we're campaigning against the sewage problem and we've led that campaign. i think overall we're just much more ambitious than some of the other parties. and critically , we want to transform critically, we want to transform british politics. we think the

politics in our country is broken. it needs to be changed. and we're the only party talking about that, whether that's electoral reform, whether it's pushing powers down to communities, we want to transform our politics. and that will unlock the ability of the next parliament to deal with the problems in our health and care system, to get our economy back on track . on track. >> michael portillo is still with me in the studio. michael, let's talk about the threat from the lib dems, because i felt particularly in the locals, they had a little bit of a resurgence. but previously to that they'd been very anonymous. obviously they faced almost total wipe—out in 2019. the days of cleggmania are well and truly over post coalition ian, and now i think the forecasting suggests that they may win 39 to 40 seats. so although sir ed davey isn't the most charismatic leader and he's not particularly visible, he's certainly not being visible on gb news. we've asked him since i started the show to come on, and he never has. however either, the lib

dems could do okay. yeah i entirely agree with that. >> i mean, i did not find anything that ed davey said there very compelling. i didn't i thought it lacked clarity and edge.i i thought it lacked clarity and edge. i don't think he's going to be a very important figure dunng to be a very important figure during the election campaign, but in the end , if there are but in the end, if there are a lot of people who are determined to get rid of the tories, and that seems to be, you know, the mood, at least in some places, then they will engage in tactical voting. yes. and so people who might want to vote, labour will see in seats where the liberal democrats are second and have a good chance south—east of england and so on, down into the west country. the labour vote will switch. this is what happened to me, by the way. i had liberal democrats switched to vote for labour, got rid of me. and so i think voters will be doing that. so i think it's i think it's perfectly plausible for the liberal democrats to have a very low profile, ineffective campaign under the man i regard as an ineffective leader . and man i regard as an ineffective leader. and yet, man i regard as an ineffective leader . and yet, nonetheless, leader. and yet, nonetheless, they do quite well. yeah. >> also, do you think that there may be the prospect of some kind of lib—lab pact, i would doubt

it at national level, but at local level for sure. yeah. and it's not even a pact. it's just, you know, you if you if you know, if you're if you're organising the labour candidate in a seat where the liberal democrats are strong, strong second to the conservatives, you just take your foot off the pedal and you allow your volunteers to go off to other seats. and you you don't try very hard with your leaflets and so on and so on. and the effect is therefore to raise the profile of the other campaign . profile of the other campaign. >> i agree he's not convincing, although he probably does make a good point about the whole sewage thing, which is really angered people, particularly in the blue wall. i mean, this idea that lib dems, you know, i don't necessarily like their overall strategy , but at a local level, strategy, but at a local level, they're good at filling potholes and getting the bins out, and they care about the rivers. that could be quite an attractive offering to tories that are kind offering to tories that are kind of not particularly convinced by sunak it could. >> and also, i mean, he was talking there about reforming the system. i mean, but i would not agree with him about how to reform the system. but i'm

slightly impatient with the two main parties, neither of which seem to think the system needs reforming. no. and i think you're jolly well does. but as i say, my solution would not be ed davey. it would be different. >> okay, let's also talk about the independent threat to laboun the independent threat to labour, and let's focus on jeremy corbyn. obviously, once the party leader, now an independent who's standing against labour in islington north, this is what he had to say in his campaign launch video i >> -- >> the prime minister is i'll be holding him to account by holding him to account by holding them to account on child poverty, holding them to account on hunger, holding them to account on health, on jobs, on the environment, on global issues of peace and justice. thatis issues of peace and justice. that is what an mp should do. and that is what i've done and will do. and i hope that those people that have always supported labour and indeed are members of the labour party, will understand that i am to here represent and serve the people of islington north on the same principles i've always had

as the mp for this area. >> so i was reading jeremy corbyn's sort of statement , in corbyn's sort of statement, in the week, and then he had listed all of his priorities . and all of his priorities. and interestingly, i just noted it. he had put mosques ahead of churches. and then i thought, well, clearly this is appeal not just to the sort of more far left elements of labour support base, but also to the muslim vote. you've then got george galloway, workers party fielding candidates that again. iain duncan smith told me the other day that he thinks that a workers party candidate is going to stand in chingford and woodford green. he's on a very small majority there and actually if it splits the labour vote that could be a good thing for some tories in london. what do you think is the extent of the threat to labour from some of these independents as well? >> from corbyn? i would think quite a small threat. it's a very interesting case because he's been the member for decades and he's got a huge majority. but my guess would be that none

the less. most people in the constituency who vote labour will vote labour. yes because actually they're getting rid of the tories and voting for jeremy corbyn threatens to split the votes. i was been there for decades. >> he's got a lot of local support there. >> i would guess he'll do very, very well. but he's got such a big majority that labour can lose a great chunk of that majority and still hold the seat i >> -- >> we're not going to have a situation where suddenly, in some bizarre turn of fate, the conservatives rise to victory in islington north. >> i don't see that happening on on the broader point, i think the labour party is going to lose quite a lot of votes, from muslim voters that otherwise it would have got . i think there's would have got. i think there's the possibility over time, not just during this general election, but later of there being a sectarian party. and george galloway's party is the embryo of that. but for this election, i think keir starmer has decided that he can probably win without having to change his policies unduly on gaza and israel to try and get back the

muslim vote, i think he is comfortable enough that he thinks he can win, even though he's going to lose quite a lot of votes and maybe even a couple of votes and maybe even a couple of seats. >> and this is why he's flip flopping all over the place when it comes to him being, do we his launch video when he ran for the labour leadership in 2020, was this unashamed sort of socialist offering. we now have him being more moderate, pretending to be a blairite. is this why he's doing this whole i'm a labour everyman? because he wants to cover all these bases ? cover all these bases? >> yes, although i think that's slightly unfair to him. >> yes, although i think that's slightly unfairto him. i mean , slightly unfair to him. i mean, he's he's clearly has moved to the right, you know, whether you believe in the sincerity. he's clearly moved to the right and to the centre and actually, i've said it a couple of times before, i think he's been quite firm and quite bold on the gaza position, even though it's been very difficult for him within the labour party and it's risk losing muslim votes. so i would give him some credit for that. i mean, as a general point, i think it's very difficult to know who starmer is because, yes, the starmer of 4 or 5 years

ago was extraordinarily different from the one we have today. and who knows what the one of 4 or 5 years time will be? >> i know, but my argument and i made it in my telegraph column this weekend. you know, once a socialist, always a socialist. theidea socialist, always a socialist. the idea that he's a blair out blairite when actually he seems to be quite a staunchly left wing eco warrior , remains to be seen. >> that does remain to be seen. and then , of course, you have to and then, of course, you have to compare that with her, with the rishi sunak who thinks the state should be extended. >> well, indeed. so there are contradictions at play. all over the place. michael portillo, thank you so much for joining the place. michael portillo, thank you so much forjoining us on your birthday. you'll be presenting from paddington at 11, so stay tuned for that . 11, so stay tuned for that. we've got an absolute cracker of an hour planned now because we're going to be speaking to nigel farage. we're going to be speaking to home secretary james cleverly, and we're going to have liz kendall in the studio to give us labour's point of view. so do not even think of touching that dial, because we've got an hour of great politics still to come. thank you very much, and we'll see you very, very shortly indeed

welcome back. so much more to come. in the next hour, i'm going to be joined by home secretary james cleverly and honorary president of reform uk, nigel farage. but first, here's the news with cameron walker . the news with cameron walker. >> camilla. thank you. it's 10:00. i'm cameron walker here in the gb news room. compulsory national service for 18 year olds will come into force if the conservative party wins the general election. the prime minister says young people will be given a choice between 12 months in the armed forces , or months in the armed forces, or one weekend a month volunteering in their community. it's hopes the scheme would help unite society and what rishi sunak called an increasingly uncertain world. applications would open in september next year with a new national service act introduced by the end of the

next parliament. well, meanwhile, more people trust sir keir starmer on matters of national security than the prime minister. that's according to a new poll by more in common for the telegraph. the survey also found a majority of people are not confident in britain's ability to defend itself against threats from russia or china, and almost half believe the next few years will be seen. will be some of the most dangerous the country has ever faced . it comes country has ever faced. it comes after rishi sunak promised to increase britain's defence spending to 2.5% of gdp . a spending to 2.5% of gdp. a private school in hampshire says its decision to close at the end of the current term is due to a drop in demand. alton school caters to boys and girls from nursery to sixth form. it says that despite higher demand across the school system, independent schools are in decline . according to the decline. according to the independent schools council, average annual fees are around £18,000 a year. it warns that

labour's plans to charge 20% vat on private school fees is looming large in parents minds. now fans were left disappointed last night when the pop star they'd paid to see at the co—op live arena in manchester was arrested. nicki minaj was detained in the netherlands after allegedly trying to take soft drugs from schiphol airport to another country . the 41 year to another country. the 41 year old singer of starships and many other hits was later released after spending what she said was 5 to 6 hours in a police cell. a new date for the show is expected to be announced today , expected to be announced today, and richard sherman , who's whose and richard sherman, who's whose music delighted generations of disney fans, has died at the age of 95. >> feed the birds , tuppence >> feed the birds, tuppence a bag to pence. >> tuppence, along with his

brother robert, his music became inseparable from the mythology behind some of disney's best known classics. the duo won two oscars for their work on the classic musical mary poppins , classic musical mary poppins, which came to life after they approached the author, p.l. travers, with the idea of adapting her much loved books . adapting her much loved books. other credits include the jungle book, chitty chitty bang bang, and the forever catchy chin chin up and the forever catchy chin chin up from charlotte's web . for the up from charlotte's web. for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts. now it's back to . camilla. back to. camilla. >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show still lots more to come in. just a minute. hopefully i'm going to be getting to the bottom of whether the rwanda plan was ever meant to take flight with home secretary james cleverly. we're just waiting for him to be miked up and prepared to speak to me. i'm also going to be speaking to the man who may have been the

catalyst behind this early election, called nigel farage. has he made a mistake in deciding not to stand as an mp for reform? i shall be asking him that very direct question later on in the show. i'm also going to be joined in the studio by shadow work and pensions secretary liz kendall. our labour plans for adding vat to private schools already backfiring. there's a story on the front of the telegraph this morning suggesting that one private school has already announced it needs to close down because its parents can no longer afford the prospect of a rise in fees. so i'll be speaking to her about that. also going to be joined by former chancellor kwasi kwarteng, who will be here to dissect if the tories have a problem with the mass exodus of their mps. and if you are watching earlier i had michael portillo in the studio doing the paper review and he's spoken quite punctually about the idea of mps like michael gove actually doing a disservice to their constituents by standing down at the last minute . he's saying that if you're going to stand down as a tory mp, what you do is do what kwasi

did, which to us announced many months ago, i'm not going to stand you then give your constituency a chance to select somebody who can replace you . at somebody who can replace you. at this stage, we now have a situation, i believe, where we've got 200 tory mps still wannabe wannabe tory mps still to be selected . and so you've to be selected. and so you've got a strange situation where conservative campaign headquarters is rapidly having to parachute candidates in to replace the mps that have just stood down. there's been concerns expressed by no less than nadine dorries in the mail on sunday. she's saying that some boris backing mps have not made it on to the selection list. and actually what's being happening is that liberal rishi sunak clones are being placed in these selected seats, which i think is difficult for the conservative party to justify, not least because we have to make an analysis of what is going to be left of the conservative party on july the 5th. there's all of this talk about uniting the right. and

again, this is a subject i'm going to be discussing with nigel farage, because i think there's a contradiction in his positioning here on one hand, he's saying that he's going to be somebody in the future who can unite the right. and equally, he's saying that he thinks that the tories are taking the country to hell in a handcart. and now we've got a statement from him saying that that's all well and good, but he doesn't feel that he's got the time to campaign as an mp and stand as an mp for reform . so stand as an mp for reform. so instead he's going to prioritise instead he's going to prioritise in america and go and help donald trump. i don't know whether people watching and listening to this think that's a bit of a betrayal. i've been speaking to people involved in reform overnight and they're saying that this has blindsided them, that they felt that nigel was going to run as an mp and that the whole positioning of reform to get as many seats as it wants to get , and indeed to it wants to get, and indeed to push the tories and pressure the tories in the polls, is completely dependent on nigel being at the helm of that organisation. we actually interested to hear from you. if you want to email us at

gbviews@gbnews.uk .uk, because actually we need to find out what you think about the fact that maybe you might regard nigel as having sort of reneged on his responsible duties. and we're just waiting for james cleverly, the home secretary, to be ready in just a moment. i'm also going to put to him this idea of whether the conservative party itself has been taken by surprise, by this announcement by the prime minister that july the 4th is going to be election day. james cleverly, hopefully you can hear me . you can hear me. >> he's just about to be with us there you are. >> great to see your your bearded face this morning, home secretary, look, i'm going to get on to kind of tory party matters in just a minute. let's talk about national service. is this seriously the best that the conservatives can do? you've got keir starmer offering young people votes at 16 and 17. you're offering is maths to 18 and compulsory national service. >> yeah. well i'm interested . so

>> yeah. well i'm interested. so i'm very interested in the details of the labour party's policy on votes for 1616 year olds, according to the united nafions olds, according to the united nations convention on the rights of a child, are children. children are, humans under the age of 18. and, if the labour party are now saying they're going to be treated as adults , going to be treated as adults, is that true for the criminal justice system? is that true for consumption of purchase of alcohol, okay. >> so let's just talk about national service, though, you know, it's an important thing because that really does strike me as a really quite , cynical me as a really quite, cynical move because, i think investing in young people is really important . important. >> and this electoral, bribe, i think is quite cynical, but you can pull the labour party up on that. our national service scheme is about addressing something that we really have seen increasing in society recently , which is kind of this, recently, which is kind of this, this fragmentation, this, this polarising, an increasing number of young people say that they

don't feel they could be friends with someone, that they disagree with someone, that they disagree with their political views. and so we do need to take action to kind of rebuild that societal cohesion. and actually having having people mix from different geographies, different ethnicities , different ethnicities, different religions, different, social classes, different income levels, and getting them getting to know each other, i think is a really important part. okay. >> but but but look, nobody's questioning it. nobody's questioning it. nobody's questioning it. nobody's questioning it as an idea. but as former defence secretary michael portillo, who's been on my show earlier , points out, the my show earlier, points out, the execution of this is really poor . it's back of a fag packet stuff, isn't it? slightly desperate , you know, you're 20 desperate, you know, you're 20 points behind in the polls. i think the bookies give you a 2% chance of securing a majority. what you're doing in a very political way is you're throwing some red meat to reform in a bid to try and claw back some of the electorate that have abandoned you. because, by the way , in you. because, by the way, in your home secretary, you've

failed them on immigration, both legal and illegal. so this is kind of like you're in last chance saloon and you've come up with this policy out of nowhere . with this policy out of nowhere. >> so camilla, i'll come back to the immigration bit because obviously it's my portfolio. it's a very important thing, something i do want to discuss, but when i was at city hall right at the start of my political career , i put forward political career, i put forward a plan for young people to be more involved in, things like uniformed youth groups to help address , youth criminality and address, youth criminality and youth violence . it was youth violence. it was a conservative party that set up national citizens service. one of the criticisms of national citizen service is that it really was only attracted to attractive to fairly well—off, middle class kids. so there is actually a long standing , actually a long standing, tradition of looking at ways that we can that we can invest in our young people. we can, you know, bind society together and actually , the military bit of actually, the military bit of this, will be limited to about

30,000 people. that bit will be voluntary. so the scheme overall will be compulsory. but the military bit will only be for people who volunteer to do that element of it. >> is there a chance that those who volunteer for the military bit? because mums and dads will be very interested in the answer to this question. is there a chance that any of these youngsters who end up doing the military part could end up in any way serving in the military and being required to serve should the worst happen? >> well, the point is that the military element of it, and there's both military and the cyber security element will of course, look to feed , inevitably course, look to feed, inevitably some people will do that and then go to , on future careers in then go to, on future careers in whether it be the armed forces or cyber security or whatever . or cyber security or whatever. but the point is, nobody is compelled to do the military bit . so anyone that does the military bit will volunteer for the military version of it. we have a volunteer army volunteer armed forces . we're very proud

armed forces. we're very proud of that. so no one will be compelled to do the military element. >> will they be deployed ? >> will they be deployed? >> will they be deployed? >> well, there is there is, of course, always , the chance that course, always, the chance that someone who is in the military gets deployed. but the point that we're saying very, very clear is that no one will be compelled to do the military element. so anyone who's really not comfortable so somebody so some well—meaning, a well—meaning 18 year old who says, yeah, okay, i can understand what this is all about. >> i'm going to sign up and do some military service. could end up being deployed to the front line. >> well, any i mean, any 18 year old, whether they join in the more traditional routes, 16 year olds, of course, can't be deployed. those going to the college age. the harrogate military college can't be deployed . but but someone joined deployed. but but someone joined the military of 18. and of course, it is. it is the military. but as i say, no one is compelled to do that, and there are plenty of roles within that which are, you know ,

that which are, you know, support functions, logistics functions or the cyber security element of it, which of course will not have . a deployable will not have. a deployable element, as i say. and this is really important. no one is compelled to do the military bit. the compulsion is the we get that. >> but you're saying that they could end up being deployed, which puts a new dimension on this whole proposition? >> no, it really doesn't. it's the military. i think people understand that the military has a function, but no one is made to join the military. >> okay. can we move on to the election? michael portillo has said that mps like michael gove are disrespectful to their constituents for standing down this late on in the game. he's right, isn't he? what are these mps playing at? jumping ship as the titanic sinks ? the titanic sinks? >> well, i think that every everyone when it comes to election elections are about forcing choice mainly. of course, the choice is for the voters. it's the choice about who is going to govern conservative party with a plan or the labour party with their

vacuous, lack of a plan. but it also, of course, forces a choice on individuals and, and, and, you know, when people talk to their families, when people look at what, their, their future life plans are, they have to wait. >> so they're saying they're saying rishi sunak isn't going to win . i don't want to serve in to win. i don't want to serve in opposition. so i'm going to leave now . just leave land my leave now. just leave land my constituents see in it. land all the activists on the doorstep with not even somebody selected for the seat. you've still got 200 seats to select six weeks out from a general election. it's showing complete lack of trust in sunak's plan, isn't it? >> well, i disagree because the i mean, i've been part of that's exactly what it shows. i know that you always have people that announce they're standing down once the election is called . once the election is called. they they do that little bit of soul searching. they ask themselves whether , you know, themselves whether, you know, now is the right time in their lives to move on to other things , and everyone's got to leave politics at some point, and, and i'm not going to criticise late on in the day this late on what's michael gove thinking. >> he's absolutely landed the

prime minister in it. >> no, you're making it sound as if it is unusual that people announce they're standing down after an election is called. that happens at every single election. labour, hang on a minute. >> it is unusual this it's an unprecedented number of tories in 1997 75 stood down. now that number of tories is up to 78. i'm putting it to you that it shows a complete and utter lack of confidence in the prime minister and his election campaign. if people are basically standing down because they don't want to lose , that's. they don't want to lose, that's. >> no, i'm sorry, i fundamentally disagree. if you look at the numbers of the people that stood down in 2019, a significant number of conservative mps stood down. >> the this many 19 general. >> the this many 19 general. >> we didn't have as many conservative mps in 2019. that's the point, we had a significant number of conservative mps stand down in 2019 when everybody, was suggesting that we were going to

win in 2017 when we went into the election with a very significant poll lead. and at the start of the election, everyone assumed we were going to win a number of mps stood down. you're you're creating a narrative which is frankly, just not borne out by not creating it. >> this is michael portillo , who >> this is michael portillo, who was the defence secretary and served under thatcher, saying it . mr cleverly, i'm not saying it. i'm saying what he has said. let's move on to let's move on to immigration because it is your brief. we haven't got much time, unfortunately, so we must move on to immigration. isn't the truth of the matter that you are this far behind in the polls and that you're haemorrhaging support to reform, regardless of farage's positioning, because you failed the country on immigration, you failed to stop the boats. we've now got 10,000, a new record of small boat arrivals . it's up by a third and arrivals. it's up by a third and legal migration is complete , out legal migration is complete, out of control. after 14 years of tory rule . that's why you're so tory rule. that's why you're so far behind. and it's now too late to change the situation, isn't it? >> so legal migration is coming

down because of the actions that i've taken and recent years have seen a couple of, a number of unique sets of circumstances. after covid, we saw a large number of people leave the country, particularly going back to their families who they thought might it might be the last time they see them. so we saw a lot of people going out dnnk saw a lot of people going out drink covid and a number of people come back. also, those figures have been , distorted figures have been, distorted because of our offer to ukrainian refugees and those british national passport holders. so has the home office got control of our borders because it feels like they don't. >> 40,000 failed asylum seekers are still in the uk. why >> why so though? so let me finish the question you asked me first, those figures are now coming down because of the action that we are taking with regard to illegal migration. we are operationalising the rwanda scheme, which labour's votes have delayed and delayed and delayed very frustrating for your viewers, very frustrating for me as home secretary, labour

voted against border control measures over 130 times and with regard to reform voters, i understand their frustration in areas like this. but the simple truth of the matter is reform are not going to fall the next general election. and if we have a labour government with their complete open door attitude to border control , with their border control, with their opposition to the rwanda scheme and their zero plan for migration, those figures, which are , you know, the legal are, you know, the legal migration figures which are heading in the right direction, that will be reversed. and with illegal migration, then they've said they're going to scrap the rwanda scheme and their big offer, their, their big idea, okay, is to create a border command which already exists. so they're saying do less and somehow get more. and a vote for reform will just open the door to a labour government. all right. and the government will open the door to our country. >> okay. thank you so much for joining me this morning. home secretary james cleverly, lovely to have you on the show . well, to have you on the show. well, i'll get nigel, nigel farage's reaction to that in just a

minute. don't go anywhere

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. it's all kicking off here this morning. fun and games. anyone would think there's an election on. let's bnng there's an election on. let's bring nigel farage into the conversation. reform uk president and gb news presenter. nigel, you're in paddington. thanks for joining nigel, you're in paddington. thanks forjoining me. this morning. can we just nail down what happened last week because my intel , for what it's worth, my intel, for what it's worth, was that you were going to make this grand announcement on may the 30th that you were going to stand. my suspicion is that you were going to run for clacton, because the polling suggests you're a good 10% there, ahead there. and then i feel that reform and indeed reform supporters are being quite blindsided by your decision. then to say, no, you're not going to stand. and i can't

quite work out what difference the timing makes. i appreciate you'd be squeezed, but you're either running for reform or you're not. regardless of whether it's a six week campaign or a six month campaign, it's very interesting. >> journalists who write about elections talk about elections. in my experience and i've never, ever fought elections. and that's why very often what you read in the newspapers is rubbish. i had a plan to say, right , i'm rubbish. i had a plan to say, right, i'm going rubbish. i had a plan to say, right , i'm going to rubbish. i had a plan to say, right, i'm going to give this six months, a six month campaign, up to an october or november general election. that would have been enough time to work in a constituency and to go around the country, to visit other places and to do media. and i'll admit, i was extremely disappointed last week. i really was very, very down indeed, that i'd lost perhaps first mover advantage , that there was very advantage, that there was very little time. and i realised very quickly i couldn't do both. i mean, i wouldn't be, i would not be to talking you now. i would

not be going to dover on tuesday , to ashfield on saturday to boston and skegness on friday. you know, i simply couldn't do both, i could you didn't need six months because you're so recognisable. >> everyone knows who you are. you would have been in a head in a seat like clacton. yeah you don't need to do the grand tour for six months. you're nigel farage again. >> you know, if you've ever fought an election , you'll know fought an election, you'll know that what it comes down to is data. and particularly now, in the last 20 years since we've had postal voting, a place like clacton, labour and conservatives or boston and skegness or any of the other seats . thanet, wherever i chosen seats. thanet, wherever i chosen to stand, they've been knocking on doors there for 100 years. they have a massive data about their loyal voters , about their their loyal voters, about their possible voters. they're able when the postal votes go out two weeks before the election, to go and visit those doors where they know people are inclined their way. if you walk in, if you walk in with zero intel, you've got a very, very major problem.

>> but look, and i understand that you're individual, you've got a private life, you've got other concerns apart from your life as a political campaigner and also i don't take away from you at all what you have achieved in your political career. right over the course of recent decades . however, there recent decades. however, there is a central contradiction at the heart of this decision, and it's this you have been banging for on years about how terrible the conservatives are that the right needs to be united, that the country is going to hell in a handcart, your man of the people, and you've basically turned around and said, but you know, at the end of the day , know, at the end of the day, america is bigger than little england. therefore, i'm going to go and help trump. so you're saying england and the uk is going to hell in a handcart, but actually i'm off right ? actually i'm off right? >> right. first things first, by choosing the path i have for the next six weeks, i'll be speaking to millions of people. if i decided now i'm going to go for a constituency i'd have been speaking to about 80,000. all right. so, you know, is the argument going to be out there?

and by the way, isn't it the dullest election campaign you've ever seen in your life? that's why you should have been in it. no, i am in it. i couldn't have beenin no, i am in it. i couldn't have been in it. and for a constituency that is the point. i couldn't do both. it's literally impossible. when you start with zero data, it can't be done. so i'm going to be part of the national debate. you bet. your life on economics. you can't put a cigarette paper between these two parties, at least in terms of what they're telling the electorate . on the telling the electorate. on the big subject of the massive population explosion and the impact that it's had on your ability to get a house, a gp appointment, there'll be no proper debate. and even on even on the farcical rwanda plan. well, as members of echr that's never going to happen anyway. so i want to be part of those debates after this election is oven debates after this election is over. yes, i will be spending time in america . why does it time in america. why does it matter? it matters because we are closer to global conflict than we've been at any point since the cuban missile crisis of over 60 years ago, and a

strong america as a genuine deterrent for our safety is absolutely vital. >> i'm familiar with your statement , so i >> i'm familiar with your statement, so i understand that argument. but the central point here, do you agree with the argument you have? i agree with the argument that we need to be worried about security. i think you're taking an enormous gamble because you've got no guarantee that donald trump is going to win the us election, but bringing it back to home matters. you've handed an extraordinary electoral advantage to rishi sunak, the man you've been spending recent months and years criticising. point one and point two. i know because i've spoken to telegraph readers about this. they're now not going to vote for reform because you're not at the helm of it. so you have sacrificed reform votes. okay. lee anderson said to you, you should have manned up, apparently. did he say that in the week? man up. no, because there's this sense that you've been there for training, you've been there. you're going to be the key striker. you're the lionel messi of reform. and then when the game days come, you've said, no, sorry, i've got an ankle injury.

>> i'll tell you what i could do. i could change my mind this morning. move down to kent, fight a seat. all right. and you won't see or hear of me for the rest of the election campaign. >> of course we would. see and hear of you how you would. you'd be seen and heard on gb news. you've got an extraordinary social media following . you've social media following. you've got millions on twitter, you're. and tiktok. you're always telling me, yeah, no, no, i can do all those things, but i can't do all those things, but i can't do that and focus on constituency. >> that's the point . six weeks >> that's the point. six weeks made it very, very difficult . made it very, very difficult. impossible to do both, difficult to fight a seat i've chosen. i want to be part of the national debate, not just in a constituency. vie and i will be there. and believe you me, i'm going to do my to best expose some of the absolute nonsenses that are being discussed over immigration and economics. they are absolutely top of my list. >> all right, let's talk about one policy, because i note that you advocated bringing back national service in 2023. you said it would be a very good idea to. so presumably you're in support of this tory

announcement today, nigel. >> a good idea, but impossible. and you know why ? because the and you know why? because the army has shrunk from 100,000 to 75,000. the army itself has a massive recruitment problem. national service on any scale is literally impossible unless you build up the size of the army and you need another 20,000 people to be trainers. if you were doing it seriously well , i were doing it seriously well, i learn from james cleverly that only 30,000 people out of 700,000 school leavers would be doing military service , which doing military service, which shows you what a joke it is. the only reason they're doing this is because they've had a focus group, and the focus group of potential reform voters have said they think national service would be a good idea. well, i tell you what, that is what followership is as opposed to leadership. everyone knows he doesn't mean it. everyone knows he'd never, ever implement it. and we've had 14 years of this, 14 years of lying to the electorate, pretending you're conservative and then doing the opposite in government. well, this time it doesn't matter. the labour lead is massive. the

conservatives start to the campaign has been catastrophic. the election is over in terms of who forms the next government. it's done well. >> not necessarily what if, as the local election picture is translated to nationals, albeit without scotland , that actually without scotland, that actually labourin without scotland, that actually labour in a position, i mean, it could be worse for you than forecast. we could be in a situation where labour needs to rely on the snp and lib dems for some kind of left wing confidence and supply situation in the extrapolation of the local election results was ridiculous because of the geographical location of those local elections, which were much more much more in the conservatives favour than laboun >> so look, it's a 25 point lead even if the lead narrowed, it's still going to be a big labour majority. but i've got a feeling just looking at the last 2 or 3 days, i've got a feeling the conservative vote actually could collapse from here. i think there is a risk of

disintegration of the entire conservative campaign, and i and that's where people will say, you know, what a vote for reform matters. it matters not just to send a message, but it matters because of this, the conservatives will be in opposition, but they won't be the opposition. it's impossible. they hate each other. they disagree on virtually everything. they don't have a unified stance on any major national policy. so what the country needs is a voice of opposition. okay. and if what i can do is to help the party get millions of votes by being out and about all over the country, appearing in debates, national media, big tv programmes, radio, etc. if i can do that and we can get we can get a cluster of reform. uk mps in the commons, then we will be the opposition. all right. >> but final question then, is the plan to hold off riding back to the reform rescue, to take the helm after we've witnessed what you're predicting, which is electoral annihilation for the tories, the right in a mess.

maybe in one, two, three years time you come back into the fray. >> i've always reasoned at age 60 that i've got one more big card to play personally , in card to play personally, in terms of putting myself forward as a candidate. the question is when to play it. i had decided i'd do it this year and i thought i'd have six months of it. i didn't, i had six weeks. will i at some point in the future, come back to try and reshape it, to actually create a centre right of british politics? because there isn't one.the politics? because there isn't one. the conservatives have been high tax , big states, mass high tax, big states, mass immigration, you know, they've not even been vaguely right of centre at some point in the future, i'll do what i can now for the next six weeks. i think we're i think we're going to surprise people with how many votes we get. i genuinely do, but at some point in the future, the answer to your question is yes, he'll be back . yes, he'll be back. >> nigel farage, thank you very much indeed forjoining me this much indeed for joining me this morning , just to let you know, morning, just to let you know, i will be presenting nigel show monday to thursday until july the 5th because i don't have

enough to do with my telegraph day job. so i will be on there and i'm sure nigel will be a regular guest coming up next, i'm going to be joined by shadow work and pensions secretary liz kendall , and work and pensions secretary liz kendall, and i'm going to be speaking to kwasi kwarteng in

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. i'm delighted to be joined by liz kendall, the shadow work and pensions secretary and labour mp for leicester west. hello. lovely to see you. thanks for coming on. first time on the show. i think so. so lovely to have you here. can we talk about a story on the front page of the sunday telegraph, which suggests that the first private school has closed because of the vat raid that's being pledged by labour. so this is a catholic school, alton school in hampshire. that's closed down. so a labour happy about the idea of their policies even before they've been enacted. closing schools down. >> i want to see all children have the best start in life. let

us take a step back from this. i don't know the details of that case and the finances of the school and what's really happened, but i do know that children in all schools deserve to have the teachers that they need, and the curriculum and subjects they need to get the best possible education. and that we're saying, you know, we will end the tax breaks , that will end the tax breaks, that private schools have to put the money into our state schools to recruit those 6500 new teachers in key subjects to give children a better start in life. i don't know what's happened on the finances. >> okay. there could be other reasons for it, but we know anecdotally that there are a lot of parents who are really worried that they won't be able to afford the fees come september. obviously, a july the fourth election does focus the mind somewhat for parents. we've got the institute for fiscal studies, so an independent body, not the people involved in independent schools , but the ifs independent schools, but the ifs predicting that 40,000 private school pupils could have to

leave the private sector and go into the state sector . leave the private sector and go into the state sector. i've leave the private sector and go into the state sector . i've had into the state sector. i've had so many shadow ministers in this studio and down the line, and i've asked them this repeatedly what will you do with those private school pupils where will you educate them in the state sector, when you're already saying that it's overstretched, that class sizes are too big, how will you accommodate these pupils? >> well, if we look at what's happened over recent years, schools have put their fees up for many different reasons. we haven't seen that sort of exodus that you're talking ifs prediction . prediction. >> it's not my own one. >> we've had we've had other people make predictions that actually this money can be raised and it wouldn't necessarily have that impact, but our priority has got to be the children right across the country, including my constituency , who need those constituency, who need those teachers, who need those changes in that book. >> can we just answer this central question? let's be really conservative about the ifs estimate of 40,000. let's say it's a quarter. it's an

exodus of 10,000 private school pupils into the state sector, genuinely shadow minister, where will you accommodate them? please answer the question because it's parents are watching this really concern about the fate of their children i know. >> can i just say i do know of course all parents whatever , course all parents whatever, wherever their children go to school, are concerned about their children's future, i don't believe that those are the figures that we'll see. say, if they are i. but i don't. politicians don't deal in. well, let's put it this way. let's put it they don't deal in. >> no, but let's put it this way. there is no way on earth that no children are going to be leaving private schools if 20% extra in some cases has been put on the fees. you know as well as i do because we're from the same neck of the woods and we we're from an area of hertfordshire which has got a really good consortium of schools, which are part selective. you went to one watford grammar. i send my son to one, i send him to a state

school. i've got two girls in a private school. i know what private school. i know what private school. i know what private school parents are like. yeah, there are the eatons and the marlborough colleges of this world where everyone's driving around in a porsche. okay, we've got parents at my daughter's school, which is. which is a independent school where the parents, they're both working. i've spoken to mums saying, i don't know if we can afford this. so at a conservative estimate, let me be even more generous than the ifs, which is a body the labour party loves to depend on when it's critical of the government's spending plans. let's say 5000 private school pupils have to leave their schools . what are labour going schools. what are labour going to do with those pupils ? where to do with those pupils? where are they going to be educated? come september ? come september? >> we don't believe that that scale of figures is what's going to happen going round in circles here. our priority has got to be those children right across the country who need. >> surely your priority should be all children. it absolutely is. but it is private school pupils who might have nowhere to go in september.

>> we have to take decisions in tough financial circumstances about how we're going to get the funding that we need to give all children that better start at the moment. >> labour doesn't have a plan for accommodating private school pupils. i don't believe the pubuc pupils. i don't believe the public sector. >> i don't believe you will know there are many different views about what will happen, about what will happen and the impact it will have. i believe it is a strong policy that will increase standards right across the country. >> parents , parents are watching >> parents, parents are watching this going what? i can't afford the fees where is my child going to go to school in september? many you can't even answer that. >> but there are also many parents across the country , parents across the country, including in my own constituency, where the schools are crumbling, constituency, where the schools are crumbling , where they cannot are crumbling, where they cannot recruit the teachers that they need and they deserve for the private sector. they deserve the private sector. they deserve the private sector. they deserve the private sector and its pupils aren't putting extra pressure on those crumbling schools . they those crumbling schools. they deserve a better chance. and, you know, i came into politics to make sure that your chance of fulfilling your potential and living your hopes and dreams doesn't depend on where you're

born, what your parents did, what their income is, your gender or the colour of your skin that every child deserves a good start in life. and that's why we're saying we want to have those breakfast clubs in every primary school. we want to recruit the extra teachers into our state school because we have we have saying that state schools struggling under financial pressures, yes, we need to get extra funding and resources into that. and that's how should we talk about tuition fees quickly as well, because we had keir starmer pledging to scrap them. >> we've had some talk from angela rayner that they should be reduced. and now bridget phillipson, the woman who wants to be the next education secretary, is saying they might actually go up. which is it? >> we want a fair system of funding in our universities. i'm sure you'll hear more about that in the coming weeks. but the key here is how do you give all children the skills and opportunity that they need for the future? and money is tight . the future? and money is tight. i mean, one of the other things that you will often and rightly ask us, how are you going to fund things? you can't make promises . promises. >> how will you will you put tax

up? because darren jones has said that you probably will. he hasn't ruled out tax cuts. so in order to fund all of these big spending pledges with not much money in the coffers, as you keep on repeatedly pointing out , keep on repeatedly pointing out, aren't you going to just have to put up taxes or is it borrowing? well, we up, we have said where we'll we'll put up taxes. >> we have said that you're definitely going to put up taxes. we will scrap the non—dom taxes. we will scrap the non—dom tax status. we'll income tax. >> and this is why we have no plans to be increasing income. >> how do you pay i want i want taxes. i'll tell you how we'll pay taxes. i'll tell you how we'll pay for it. we'll pay for 40,000 extra appointments in the nhs every week by closing tax loopholes and the loopholes in the non—dom tax status will pay for 6500 extra teachers in our state schools. by ending the breaks for private schools, we will pay for the increase in mental health staff we need by reducing those tax loopholes that private equity fund managers when will we have? actually we have. so you ask me a question, camilla. i have said where we will increase taxes. those are our priorities. the other thing i would say to you is reform . i don't believe the

is reform. i don't believe the answer always comes in more money. no, i think you can make better use of it. >> so will you reform the nhs then so that it uses its money more effectively? >> absolutely. and let me give you a really clear example of that. you a really clear example of that . you know, currently we that. you know, currently we have so many elderly people stuck in hospital beds when they could be cared for in the community, at home. >> social care plan is going to cost a lot, isn't it? >> but the first thing that you can do is to bring together the teams, because i don't know if you've hopefully you haven't had to deal with an elderly parent stuck in hospital. you are on that phone ringing around five, six, seven, eight people trying to get it all. there's one person. there should be one team. that's the sort of reform we need there. and i think you can make better use of taxpayers money. we have seen, let me just say this as well . we have seen say this as well. we have seen i just wanted £10 billion, £10 billion last year in the benefit system. waste on fraud . we've system. waste on fraud. we've seen £15 billion in defence procurement wasted. we want to use people's money wisely and that's what labour's committed to doing. >> quick question will you

aboush >> quick question will you abolish the house of lords in the first year that you're in office? >> you will see. i'm sure you'll be eagerly awaiting our manifesto commitments, and that will be coming out in the coming weeks. and months. >> will the manifesto also say how much it's going to cost to decarbonise the power grid in six years time? >> well, it'll have a very clear commitment about clean power by 2030, and it will have a cost and it will have a it will have anything that we put forward will be fully funded and fully costed because it's not our money, it's the it's taxpayers money. and we will use that wisely. >> liz kendall, lovely to see you on the show. this morning. thank you very much. up next, i'm going to be talking to former chancellor and soon to be independent citizen and non—mp kwasi kwarteng. don't go anywhere

welcome back to the camilla tominey show i'm pointed in this

direction because kwasi kwarteng is in the studio with me. we've had a fun packed show, kwasi. we're fast running out of time. let's rattle through a few of these questions. how do you think the campaign is going so far? well, it's had a rocky start. there's no question about that one way of describing it. >> but i think, you know, these are long campaigns are six weeks. and generally, in my experience, you're talking about something completely different at the end than you were at the beginning. yeah, maybe that's right. >> the dial moves. that's right, michael portillo was in your chair earlier today saying that he thought that michael gove had been disrespectful to his constituents for standing down at the last minute. you did the right thing. you said early doors. that's it. i'm out and then you can allow your seat of spelthorne to prepare for a new incumbent and equally, you can plan what you're going to do with the rest of your life. portillo has a point here, doesn't he? >> i think he does have a point. but but also, i think two things. i think also that, you know, a lot of mps don't decide until the very end because they don't know they're genuinely conflicted. >> no, but it looks like you're looking at the poll numbers. they look dire. you don't want

to be in opposition. you don't support rishi sunak, you don't think his plan is working. so you're basically cutting loose. >> so i think that actually in michael's case, i think he had a lot of legislation on he had, rent reform landlords reform. i think some of that's going to be not going to happen because of the wash up. i think that's a factor . and there are lots of factor. and there are lots of other reasons. you know, as i think nigel said it, you know, a campaign is a very, very intense affair . and campaign is a very, very intense affair. and at campaign is a very, very intense affair . and at the campaign is a very, very intense affair. and at the point that it's announced, a lot of people say to themselves, well, actually i, my heart's not in it for whatever reason. >> what did you make of the nigel farage interview? because you were in here watching it. >> yeah, i was, i was quite interested in what he said. i mean, i think you're right that there is a contradiction. he's saying britain is going to hell in a handcart. and the tories are completely, you know, useless. but at the same time, he doesn't want to get involved as a, as a, as a candidate. >> i didn't quite get the argument about i haven't got the data. i can't campaign in seat. >> and nationally, i think he was trying to say that it takes i mean, i've fought in five general elections and there's no

point trying to just start as a, as a, as a candidate in a, in a, in a constituency the day the campaign is called, i know makes things very different to other candidates. >> he's slightly different. he's slightly different nigel farage from reform. he's slightly different. >> but the other thing is that, you know, politics is a lot more local even than it would have been 20, 30 years ago. he'll have to know what the local issues are. but are we seriously saying the good people of clacton don't understand who he is, and that he hasn't got a grasp of politics and local politics? >> well, you need to pick up on local issues. >> i mean, any candidate even, you know, if it's boris or whoever. yeah, as a local mp, they're going to have to be abreast of local issues. and i think nigel's point, i think it's a fair point was that six months is a lot longer than six weeks. >> talking of the b word, boris johnson has now said he's not really around for this campaign. yeah that's what i said. this is an error isn't it. by rishi sunak. he could have his main big blonde campaigner out on the streets and instead boris is apparently got some work to do in ukraine and elsewhere and going on a family holiday. well, look, boris has a new life. >> he'll have lots of commitments and the election has

come as a bit of a surprise. so the idea that he's going to him, couldn't they? well, i mean, that's something for rishi to have thought of or rishi sunak a good campaigner , well, i think i good campaigner, well, i think i think he enjoys the campaign trail, he's people to join him on the campaign. >> probably not as experienced in that as other politicians. yeah, but i think he can. he can he can come into his own in the next six weeks. >> should he have launched the campaign inside rather than in the pouring rain in downing street? do you think kwasi. >> so my view was that he should have done it inside. but you can't win if he'd been done it inside. people have said, you know what's he afraid of? you know, this is the tradition and it's a finely balanced . it's a finely balanced. >> we'll have a moment of silence for his dry cleaner, on this whole seat selection things. i riffed about it a bit earlier when i was waiting for james cleverly to come on air. there's a problem here, isn't there? and it's been identified by nadine dorries that 200 seats are still to be selected, 190, 190, which is a lot. it's double the amount that labour have to select . and what that then select. and what that then engenders is a panic dropping in candidates left, right and centre that probably haven't

been properly vetted. also if it's to be believed, conservative campaign headquarters seems to veer towards, you know, anti—boris remainers and not pro boris brexiteers and therefore the complexion of the future party. if these people win, could be that it's just a kind of what might be described as a wishy washy liberal mess rather than a properly constituted thatcherite. let's see. >> i mean, i think it's regrettable that individual associations haven't wouldn't have had the time to have a proper contest in terms of, you know, who is going to be their candidate. and i think that's a shame . but of course, you know, shame. but of course, you know, if you've got a snap election and we've had three, right, this is the third after 2017 and 2019 where they were snap elections. you've got to act, really react very quickly and move the machine. >> very 32nd answer needed. do you think that one of the reasons he called this election early is because they realised that they couldn't give any tax cuts in a last minute budget before election if it was in autumn, because they've spent all of the money on defence

spending pledges bailing out thames water, giving money to infected blood victims and all the rest of it. >> i think i think the economic picture obviously had a role to play picture obviously had a role to play because if you thought the economy was generally getting much stronger, why wouldn't you wait till people felt that? very good point . good point. >> and on that note, we're going to leave it there because time . to leave it there because time. time has just stolen away today because we've had so much to discuss. kwasi thank you very much indeed forjoining me. don't forget that birthday boy . don't forget that birthday boy. michael portillo is up next at 11 with a load of great guests . 11 with a load of great guests. i'll be back next week at 930 on sunday for more election coverage. see you then and have a great weekend . a great weekend. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello there! welcome to your latest gb news weather. the day aheadis latest gb news weather. the day ahead is going to be unsettled. we'll see. heavy showers, some

thundery downpours as well, but there will be some sunshine this morning though it's a cloudy start across much of the uk, outbreaks of rain pushing northwards, but it will brighten up from the south. but we will see heavy showers developing, becoming quite widespread as we move through into the afternoon. a met office thunderstorm warning in force, some local disruption possible frequent lightning, hail and some localised flooding in between. there will be some sunny spells, breezy around the coast. temperatures a little lower compared to saturday. highs around about 20 celsius, but for some eastern areas it will feel a little less chilly compared to saturday, so looking at the details into the evening time, we can see plenty of showers still across central southern parts of england and wales. some of these thundery and then further north into northern england, northern ireland southern scotland cloudy, generally with outbreaks of rain but still some rumbles of thunder possible in that two, and then across northern scotland, generally a little bit dner scotland, generally a little bit drier here with some sunny spells for a time before

clouding over as well for the rest of the evening, and overnight. further showery rain pushes northwards to start to clear from the south, but 1 or 2 showers are still possible as we move through into the early hours and then further blustery showers moving into the southwest later, with some clear spells around . temperatures will spells around. temperatures will be a little lower, but generally for most, holding up in double figures to take us into bank houday figures to take us into bank holiday monday. so for england and wales, a brighter start. some sunny spells , scattered some sunny spells, scattered showers from the word go further north and northern ireland into scotland. generally cloudier. outbreaks of rain , most outbreaks of rain, most persistent across western scotland and then generally for monday afternoon, a day of a sunny spells and scattered showers. again, some of these could be heavy at times, some thundery as well, particularly northeast scotland, eastern england, and temperatures around 18. >> it looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good morning and welcome to sunday with michael portillo. roald dahl once wrote. if i had my way, i'd remove january from the calendar altogether and have an extra july instead. or perhaps rishi sunak is also a fan of that month, as he has risked all on a general election on us independence day. over the next two hours we will have reflections on his decision and the claims campaigns that it has launched and on the announcement that the tories would introduce a form of national service. but there will also be time in the next two hours to bring some light and warmth to your sunday with arts, culture and world affairs, which is your next

surprise. many of his colleagues,