if indeed vat was applied to those fees. what do you make to this? do you think this policy stacks up or not? is it fair to tax them in this way with vat or is it a policy of envy, serious emotions flying around ? when it emotions flying around? when it comes to that topic? i can tell you also when it comes to pensions is the triple lock has yesterday's news everybody. because today it's all about the triple lock plus basically meaning that no tax should be payable on the state pension. he's had a good solid policy or an attempt to buy voters. your thoughts also, do you think it's good news that they will finally be an independent investigation into grooming gangs in oldham ? into grooming gangs in oldham? yes, i hear you cry. let me ask you, though, what on earth took them so long? and we saw a horrendous crime which saw robbery at a watch shop. the victim of that crime has now sadly been found dead. do you

think we do enough to support victims of crime in this country or . not? victims of crime in this country or. not? we've victims of crime in this country or . not? we've got it victims of crime in this country or. not? we've got it all to come and more . or. not? we've got it all to come and more. did you or. not? we've got it all to come and more . did you see what come and more. did you see what the bbc had to say about nigel farage today? we'll look at that. and lots of other stuff. but. but before we get stuck in, let's cross live for tonight's latest headlines . latest headlines. >> the top story this evening . >> the top story this evening. pensioners could be in for a tax break worth up to £24 billion every year as part of an election pledge by the conservative party it could see cuts worth around £95 in the next tax year, rising to £275 by 2029. the prime minister says it will be funded by a clamp down on tax dodgers. labour, though, has described the plan as a desperate move. rishi sunak says it's part of the government's broader plan. however for what i

believe is that if you work hard all your life, you should have dignity in retirement. >> that's why we've protected the triple lock, which is going up the triple lock, which is going ”p by the triple lock, which is going up by £900 this year for pensioners. but today what we've announced is the triple lock. plus we're going to increase the personal allowance for pensioners delivering a tax cut worth around £100 to millions of pensioners, demonstrating our commitment to them, making sure that we can deliver a secure future for them. and in contrast, the labour party has said they oppose that policy, which means pensioners will be paying which means pensioners will be paying tax under any future labour government. and that's the clear choice on offer at this election . this election. >> rishi sunak, speaking earlier on this afternoon, will the shadow chancellor has told gb news that pensioners are paying more tax because of rishi sunak's government. rachel reeves used her first major speech of the election campaign to criticise liz truss's mini—budget which she blamed for costing homeowners around £240 more every month . speaking to gb more every month. speaking to gb news political editor christopher hope , miss reeves

christopher hope, miss reeves said wages remain flat and taxpayers were being asked to pay taxpayers were being asked to pay more for less. everything that i put forward will be fully costed and fully funded because i will never play fast and loose with the public finances, because when you do so, you put family finances and pensioners finances in peril and the conservatives are now adding bauble after bauble to the christmas tree without any idea of how they're going to fund these new commitments. >> yesterday they said they were going to use this money to create national service scheme. today they're saying they'll use the same pot of money to give a tax break for pensioners. well, the reason that pensioners are paying the reason that pensioners are paying more tax today is because of decisions by this conservative prime minister. >> rachel reeves. well the deputy labour leader, angela raynen deputy labour leader, angela rayner, has accused the conservatives of using desperate tactics after police said it will take no further action in its investigation into her

housing affairs. labour's deputy leader has faced some scrutiny over whether or not she paid the right amount of tax on the sale of her council home back in 2015, over confusion as to whether or not it was her principal residence. well, in a statement released this afternoon, greater manchester police clarified that matters involving council tax didn't fall under its jurisdiction . fall under its jurisdiction. pope francis has had to apologise for using an offensive word to describe gay men after reports appeared in italian media, two of the country's biggest newspapers reported that he used the slur when suggesting there were too many gay people in the priesthood. he's in the past told bishops to carefully vet priests and reject any suspected homosexuals . the suspected homosexuals. the vatican says the pope didn't intend to use homophobic language , and he apologises to language, and he apologises to anyone who was offended . new anyone who was offended. new research has suggested that a lack of progress on insulating british homes is costing

billpayers £3.2 billion every yeah billpayers £3.2 billion every year. analysis by the energy and climate intelligence unit found that upgrading the average british, home to an energy performance rating of c would have saved billpayers around £200 a year, despite rise in energy costs , the government energy costs, the government scrapped a target last year that would have seen all privately rented homes rated c or above by next year . latest rented homes rated c or above by next year. latest figures rented homes rated c or above by next year . latest figures show next year. latest figures show that fewer than 5000 homes have been insulated under the government's scheme . and in government's scheme. and in international news, israeli tanks were told are advancing on the city of rafah following a night of heavy airstrikes which killed at least 21 people. the offensive on gaza's southern city is pressing ahead despite international condemnation. people could be seen in the streets carrying their belongings away in an attempt to escape the area. israel for its part, saying it wants to root out hamas fighters in rafah and rescue hostages who are still being held by the terror group.

that's the latest news for the latest stories, do sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or going to gb news .com/ alerts. back now to . michelle. to. michelle. >> thank you very much for that, polly. and i've got to say, i can't let you go without saying the legend polly middlehurst is back.i the legend polly middlehurst is back. i can tell you now, polly, we've been inundated in your absence with people asking where you are. and just as i hop onto your set tonight, tommy says it's fantastic to have you back. june says she's really missed you. kevin says, please send much to love polly. it's great to have her back. and she says it's fabulous and lovely to see polly again. so there you go. you've been very, very mish gb news. >> welcome back. thank you very much. i've been supporting my family through a bereavement, but very glad to be back in the hot seat. >> there you go. thank you very much for that. polly. right this is a dewbs & co. i am michelle

is a dewbs& co. i am michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, the former brexit party mep nunziata rees—mogg is here, as is the former labour minister and new face to this programme. bill rammell. minister and new face to this programme. bill rammell . good programme. bill rammell. good evening to both of you. you're very welcome tonight, as are all of you at home. what's on your mind tonight ? you can get in mind tonight? you can get in touch all the usual ways you can get on email gbviews@gbnews.com. it's how you reach me there. or of course you can go to the website. i've just been reading some of you out there gb news. com slash your say. by the way, that's gb news .com/ your say that's gb news .com/ your say that's not the email address. that's the website address where you can hop on to chat amongst yourself. and indeed to me as well. and of course don't forget you can tweet or x me. we've got it all going on here on gb news. however you're watching and listening, you are very welcome tonight. it is 37 days until the next general election. are you still there? have you lost the will to live yet or not? as always on this programme, i will kick off by doing a quick round up of what has happened on the

campaign trail today. we'll stay across it so that you don't have to. so let me cross live to our political editor, christopher hope. christopher good evening to you. last time i spoke to you, i think it was on the m40 on a bus somewhere. it's good to have you back in the studio. what have we missed today? >> hi, michelle. it's great to be back in the studio with you. yeah, it's been a busy day for rachel reeves. now she's been making a speech in derby setting out what the labour government might do or more often than not, won't do if they win power. in the speech and an interview with me for gb news afterwards at rolls—royce's plant, there , she rolls—royce's plant, there, she made clear labour would not increase national insurance will not increase income tax will not increase corporation tax and have no plans for wealth taxes, thatis have no plans for wealth taxes, that is a big sub space moved, moved to one side to raise money for any plans. the labour's idea is to fund tax growth, tax cuts from growth and the economy is forecast to grow. if labour does win power on july the 4th. so that's where they are and they've been responding and i

think slightly tetchily, i would argue to these, these rather bold ideas from the tory party. they're looking of course, at this triple lock plus on pensions. so, pensioners on the national, on the state pension won't be paying , basic rate of won't be paying, basic rate of income tax at all during if the tories win another five years in government, the labour party won't back that because they're terrified of unfunded tax pledges , pledges or spending pledges, pledges or spending pledges. and then we heard from the on the weekend on the national service idea for young people. again, that's been dismissed as a gimmick by laboun dismissed as a gimmick by labour. so in order you have a role reversal. michelle, from 2019, when jeremy corbyn was criticised having a magic money tree and the tories said these are unaffordable ideas. well, this time you have the tories making their claims or they would do. they're making the radical offer almost and labour, because they're ahead in the polls, are not going anywhere near it. so you have this kind of role reversal. of course, the

tories do say that their plans are costed. i'm looking at some polling just dropping michelle, by the way. quite interesting. the tories are now , according to the tories are now, according to jail jail partners, just 12 points ahead, 12 points ahead, 12 points behind labour in a new poll, just 12 points behind . poll, just 12 points behind. laboun poll, just 12 points behind. labour, of course, has been as much as 20 points, 25 points aheadin much as 20 points, 25 points ahead in recent recent weeks. so you are seeing a narrowing of the polls. we did expect to see it, and that's why some are saying the hung parliament is a distinct possibility. >> interesting stuff. just tell me briefly if you will as well. i've got a lot of viewers writing in on the your say about the angela rayner situation. so the angela rayner situation. so the police saying they're not going to progress, that situation. what's the response been to that. that's right. >> so we heard from greater manchester police around 4:45 saying no further action being taken, but in a three paragraph statement making clear that there was interest to look into it. but at the end of the day, council tax and personal tax issues to not fall into the jurisdiction of policing . jurisdiction of policing. shortly after that, we heard from stockport council this all

goes back, i should explain to the sale of miss rayner's home in 2015. it was a main home, she said . but she also was living a said. but she also was living a few streets away with her husband, whether any capital gain, tax was paid and whether it was an initial a main home when her house was sold was at issue and we have heard from stockport council. they're also saying that there's been no further action taken. that leaves hmrc now. hmrc never comment on tax affairs of individuals but labour are clear. louise hague is shadow transport secretary. she said that this is over. a line has been drawn and hmrc are unlikely to say anything about that. so i think as we speak tonight, angela rayner is in the clear. michelle, after all those weeks of speculating about whether she owed a small amount of tax in cgt, well, there you go. >> interesting times for sure christopher hope, thank you very much for that. now one of the stories that was dominating the headunes stories that was dominating the headlines today, this whole row about whether or not there should be vat applied to private

schools or not, we've been going round in circles that debate for quite some time. but now apparently there's a new report out that says that actually, if vat is indeed applied to those private schools, we're going to see an exodus of about 40% of those pupils going into state school. long story short, that suggestion there is basically the maths, therefore don't add up and theatre . what do you make up and theatre. what do you make to this idea anyway of vat being appued to this idea anyway of vat being applied to private school fees? >> i think it's absolutely ridiculous that parents who send their children to private school are obviously not taking up a space in a state school, which is beneficial to state education, but also state schools. do private schools do generally do a lot of outreach and charity work within their communities , opening up their communities, opening up their facilities to the local community and indeed the local state schools, makes it too expensive for parents to be able to send their children to the school of their choice is going to have a knock on effect for them. as this report says, the

number of pupils in state school, but a particularly profound effect in sen education, where an awful lot of the provision is private, often funded by the council , not by funded by the council, not by the parents, because there are not the facilities within the state sector. and i'm afraid those children are the ones most likely to lose out. >> so it's a big no, a big thumbs down from you for that policy bill. you used to be you're a former education minister. do you agree with annunciator or not, no, i don't. and just immediately, particularly on kids with special needs, my understanding is that those will be exempted from the change. but on the general principle, i don't think the taxpayer should be subsidising private schools, which is effectively what happens at the moment. if you look at the polling evidence, the public back this labour commitment by 2 to 1 and even allowing for behavioural change, and there may be some at the margins. the institute for fiscal studies says it will raise about £1.4 billion, which can pay for 6500 new teachers in

the state sector and given only 7% of children go to private schools. we ought to be investing and supporting the 93% investing and supporting the 93% in state schools. >> but do you think the maths stack up, though? because when you look at some of the numbers quoted that's based on quite a small, migration number, essentially from private school to state school, reports like what we're seeing today say that actually it's not going to be that tiny. you could potentially see up to 40% of pupils moving, in which case the maths do not stack up. >> i think what you're seeing is self—interested lobbying by private schools to create the impression there'll be a massive exodus. i don't believe that will happen, in part because i actually think private schools are. a lot of them will suck up the additional charge rather than passing it on to the people who choose to send their children to those schools. so this is about tax fairness, and it's about investment in the state sector. >> so he's basically saying, why should every other parents subsidise the rich kids? >> they're not impacted . is the

>> they're not impacted. is the other way around that by paying private school fees and taking the burden off the state, the parents are supporting the state education system. this is just the politics of envy. and we saw it before under labour when they scrapped the assisted places scheme, which was an incredible scheme, which was an incredible scheme that gave bright children the opportunity to have the very best educations at the best schools, paid for by the taxpayer . and because of the taxpayer. and because of the hatred for the private school system . tony blair scrapped that system. tony blair scrapped that within months of coming to power and it had a massively damaging effect on children who really needed that foot up onto the ladder and have made great successes for their lives that the generation behind them aren't able to do. >> is this just jealousy? so when you say all of these people in these polls can't remember what you start out, you just gave me, but that's because their children are not in state school. they've been fed this narrative, about kind of you know, oh, look at those wealthy people. it's all their fault. but actually a lot of people that go to the private school,

their parents are not really that wealthy, because if you're really wealthy, you're going to suck up this 20% if indeed it is passed on to you, or 15% or whatever, it'll end up being, in practice . but you're going to practice. but you're going to suck that up. you don't care. your kids education is not going to be disrupted. it's the ones in the middle bill that people have actually, they do go without. they sacrifice. they don't get a new car or a holiday or whatever it is, quite frankly, because they've prioritised their child's education. it's those people that's going to be disrupted. it's those children that are perhaps potentially going to be taken away from their friendship groups, their education disrupted. they're going to go into state school. you're probably going to see bullying of those kids . do probably going to see bullying of those kids. do you probably going to see bullying of those kids . do you know, does of those kids. do you know, does that not bother you? >> it's not about class envy. and look, i respect did you say that with a straight face. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> no, i do really i do because i respect the right of parents to send their kids to private schools. but what i don't think should happen is that they should happen is that they should be subsidised in doing so. and that's effectively what happens at the moment. but in terms of priority for government, the 93% of children in state schools and state schools have been pared to the bone over the last 14 years.

they should be the priority for investment. you know, and this team can generate that. >> lots of businesses and all charities have vat exceptions. you're making it sound like it's just private schools that are having this. it's not true at all. small businesses have it. one man enterprise houses under the vat threshold and all charity is. there is a lot of charitable work within private schools, and i would like them to continue doing that, not have that leg up taken away from them so that they don't help their communities and don't feel they should. >> i think if you scratch beneath the surface, there's nothing like the degree of charitable work undertaken by private schools, as is often claimed. but look, this is about a level playing field. obviously fairness school by school, but it only takes 10% of pupils to leave most schools for the school to close. >> and at that point, whether the parents can afford it or not, you've got all the children trying for a place at a local station. >> i don't think that will happen because i think the schools will suck up a lot of

the increase. >> having had a child at private school, i don't currently, a lot of the parents really are scrabbling to get those fees together that increase piece thatis together that increase piece that is proposed £3,000 a year will be out of reach for more than 10% of them, unless the schools absorb it. >> and i think that in major part is what will happen. >> i just want to probe you on this kind of subsidy and all the rest of it, because the fact is, a lot of these people, they'll be higher, if not additional. rate taxpayers. so they're already essentially inputting a huge amount of tax into the state's education. often they're not putting their child through that. so they're essentially paying that. so they're essentially paying over the odds for everyone else's children to be educated. while simultaneous paying educated. while simultaneous paying for their own children to be educated . and i just i don't be educated. and i just i don't believe that this isn't motivated by envy . motivated by envy. >> i do, you know, under the last labour government, the number of children going and this wasn't a commitment that we made under the last labour government, a number of children going to private schools decreased because we raised standards and we raised investment in state schools. >> and you scrapped assisted

places? yeah, absolutely . places? yeah, absolutely. >> right. >> right. >> because it was children who needed it the most, couldn't go to private , needed them, have to private, needed them, have the giving unfair advantages to some people and not all people who couldn't afford it. people who couldn't afford it. people who needed it most. >> what we did and, you know, school standards, school investment rose significantly dunng investment rose significantly during the 13 years in labour was in power. and that's what we're determined to do this time. and part of the way we will pay for it is ending the unfair treatment of private schools and investing that to employ 6500 new educational standards at the end of your last term hadn't improved . they last term hadn't improved. they had most certainly, if you feel so strongly , i think i'm not so strongly, i think i'm not putting words into your mouth, but i think you basically said, like a lot of the charitable stuff that they're doing, it's not really all that it seems. >> why did labour row back on the plans then to remove charitable, charitable status from a lot of those schools because it was under legal advice that the what we're now doing was the better and fairer and less subject to legal challenge to make the change. and if these if because i do

know that not all the schools are charities, but those ones that are they do have to do regular checks and balances to demonstrate that they are giving back and meeting the criteria to continue being classed as charities. so do you know something that those charitable commissioners don't ? commissioners don't? >> i from, from what i have seen, there is not the level of charitable commitment that that is generally claimed by the private schools, but look, this is about a level playing field. it's about fairness. it's about prioritising the 93% of kids who go to state schools. and i think that's the right priority. >> it's about bringing everyone down to the same level and where we want to lift everyone up. yeah i look, you know, i've spent the best part of my life as a politician and as a university leader wanting to raise everybody up. >> but you do that by delivering a decent state education system thatis a decent state education system that is properly resourced , and that is properly resourced, and we have to be prioritising the majority of children. >> let's come back to this perhaps after the break. but i also want to talk to you about another key policy announcement

today. so triple lock, i told you that's yesterday's news everyone. it's all about triple lock. plus now, a sense of fairness we've just been discussing. do you think it's fair that anyone should have to pay fair that anyone should have to pay tax on the state pensions ? pay tax on the state pensions? of course, income thresholds have not been increased. so going forward, a few years, that's currently what indeed would happen. your thoughts? see you in two.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight alongside the former brexit party mep anunciata rees—mogg and the former labour minister bill rammell. welcome back everyone. we've just been talking about private schools and vat. matt says this is a tax of stupidity . vie. and it will of stupidity. vie. and it will only make private education a privilege for the very wealthy. it's typical labour and their race to the bottom. let me just return to this briefly before we move on to talk about pensions bill. you say it's all about

fairness and stuff like that, but, the viewer there, matt, he makes a very good point because everyone, you know, walks around getting really upset about all the x amount of people in the top jobs, went to private school and all the rest of it, and these all boys networks, whatever. but ultimately, why isn't this policy just going to serve to make them even more elite? because what you're going to do is you're going to pull out the middle, middle ground and only the really rich people will be there. and happily, to continue the priority should be getting a decent and a better invested state education system. >> that's where 93% of people's children go and look. we can debate this back and forward, but those parents pay over the odds into the state education system already, don't they? look, this is about fairness . it look, this is about fairness. it is about a level playing field. and the ultimate arbiters are the public. and if you look at the public. and if you look at the opinion poll in evidence by 2 to 1, they jealousy envy. no, i think it's a sense of fairness and wanting everyone to have decent opportunities. >> so if it ends up actually

costing so not saving these amount of figures that are currently calculated but ends up costing the taxpayer more because you have more people coming out, is it still fair then? >> well, i genuinely don't think it will. and you know, don't listen to me. don't listen to the labour party, listen to the independent institute for fiscal studies. they've estimated that even allowing for some behavioural change, some people pulling their kids out of private schools, it will generate 1.4 billion. but they estimated between 3 and 7% of migration. >> if my memory is right, not the institute. and i think i thought the date, i thought that they'd said that if it was about between 3 and 7% and middle ground, just say five, then you'd get that tax, that's that cost saving . whereas the report cost saving. whereas the report out today says it's going to be likely 40. >> and that's a, that's a report on behalf of private schools who are self—interested and are trying to lobby against the change. you know, the ifs is the most respected independent institute looking at fiscal plans of all the parties, schools, schools are already going bust.

>> as you've seen this week won't be reopening in september. thatis won't be reopening in september. that is just adding a burden onto the state sector in those areas that for the sake of tokenism because of jealousy. carol says private education is a luxury and it should absolutely be taxed as such. >> so yes, she says to var t, keep your thoughts coming in all the usual ways. but another key policy announcement that was, lots of discussion between you guys at home today about the pensions we know about the triple lock by now on pensions, but now there's another suggestion that actually, this is all to do with the income thresholds they have been in place now for a long time, projected to stay at least for a few more years. long story short, what that will mean is that there will be some pensioners that now find themselves having to pay income tax on that state pension, because the income tax thresholds have remained static. these new proposals will essentially change that and mean that nobody would then be paying any income tax on the state pension. do you agree with that

bill? >> no, i don't, and i find this proposal bizarre. the only reason that this is an issue is because this conservative government froze personal tax thresholds until 2028. i think they first did that 2 or 3 years ago. they've had successive budgets and autumn statements to make this change. they've not done so. and now, at the fag end of their time in office, they're making this proposal. it is costly. it's £25 billion. it's virtually a spending commitment a day from the tory party at the moment. no real sense of where the money is going to come from. and i think, you know, objective only if you look at the last 14 years, pensioners have been protected and whilst others, particularly the young, have been hammered and i don't think this is the right priority to move forward. >> oh, i can hear a few pensioners out there shouting tell me your thoughts and on to yours. well, i think it's absolutely ridiculous that you work to pay in, to be paid out when you retire. >> and now if you're taxed on

it, to pay it back again, that to then be paid back in your own pension. this seems like a crazy zigzag of unnecessary bureaucracy . what the government bureaucracy. what the government should do is unfreeze income tax. that young or old, you should not be paying income tax on levels of this kind. it needs to be substantially raised. it's not going to be cheap, but it will help the economy by increasing growth and people being able to spend their money more freely rather than it disappearing to the tax man. but the level of 12,570, which they think pensions will breach in 2025, 26 and has got to be increased to a wage upon which people can survive . people can survive. >> so what would you have the income threshold being then? i would put it right up personally, what i haven't done the costings, but certainly 20 grand is often suggested. >> so that those who are on the minimum wage do not pay income tax. >> well, would you say that's a grain of agreement between us? >> because i think we ought to

raise thresholds and i hope that once labour is in government, we will actually do that. but there's actually a broad and i agree with you as well, an answer to equality of treatment. and this proposal isn't about equality of treatment, but there's a bigger issue here. and thatis there's a bigger issue here. and that is one that neither the labour party or the tory party are facing up to. and that's that. the triple lock as it stands, is unsustainable in the longer term. we currently spend 124 billion on pensions. the ifs again estimates that by 2050, on current trends, the triple lock will add £45 billion. so what are you saying then? >> you you think the triple lock should be scrapped, it's a personal view. it's not. >> the labour party's going to say. yeah, it's completely odd. >> i do not think it's sustainable. you know, you look at all the pressures on public spending. i don't think we can go forward with that commitment. and i'll make a bet that at some stage over the next ten, 15, 20 years, whichever government is in power, something will be done to unlock it. >> well, do you think we should have the triple lock? >> our pension system is very

badly arranged in the first place, so it is essentially a ponzi scheme, and we are heading rapidly to a position of a population pyramid, which means that more people need to be paid out than are paying in, and which obviously is unsustainable. we saw ten years ago or more germany in this situation, and they had to make really very drastic changes. and i do actually agree with bill. there will need to be big changes here purely. so we can afford it, but that people still must very importantly have dignity in retirement, you've got really strong opinions about this , ian says. can i just say this, ian says. can i just say i'm 73 and i've paid the pension of others for 50 years whilst going out working so gen z should shut up and pay up. he says, surely we are one of the worst countries pension wise , worst countries pension wise, lorraine says please can this not be a pensioner bashing session? we've worked save hard and earned what we have , we also and earned what we have, we also now have the privilege of having to pay for care in our old age.

we pay tax on most things, so we're not opting out. we don't need to apologise for achieving what we have . keep your thoughts what we have. keep your thoughts coming in that if you're slightly younger , you're. what slightly younger, you're. what do you feel about this? do you think this is fair or not? also, one of the things that caught my eye today was the bbc and how they have been reflecting on some of the things that nigel farage had to say. >> listen, about the wave of and i'm using his words, not mine. aggressive young males that are coming into poland, having crossed the mediterranean and he has said that this is now a matter of national security. >> nigel farage, with his, customary inflammatory language there at a reform uk press conference, he declined to stand as a for a seat. >> but we will have more . >> but we will have more. >> but we will have more. >> how ridiculous. it wasn't even his words, by the way. he already just said he was directly quoting somebody else, bill, what do you think to all that? well, they had to apologise as well. >> sorry. i might surprise you

because i disagree with about 95% of what nigel farage says, but i think the bbc broke the ofcom editorial guidelines by making that statement today. >> i welcome the fact that she's rectified it, by, you know, making the apology. interestingly, she's krishnan guru—murthy is , a sister and the guru—murthy is, a sister and the family have form on making these incendiary statements about politicians . politicians. >> i remember a c—word. i won't tell you what that c—word is, ladies and gents, because it's tea time and i don't want to curl your hair. but you might remember that comment that bill's referring to. what did you make to that? >> it was clearly a breach. i'm glad she's apologised. she shouldn't have thought it, let alone said it. he did make it exceptionally clear that he was quoting, i believe, donald tusk, who is so far from being a brexiteer, little englander as you could possibly get, and i think he was demonstrating how broad the fears on this subject are. not just quoting himself. >> yeah, we've had a bit of this, haven't we? because i recall, for example, the reform party being described as far

right and an apology had to be issued on that. i remember watching a press conference where they had, the union flags up and one of the commentators on sky, i think it was, was basically saying, oh, here we go. they've got their flags up. read into that. what you will. it's just to me, it's almost like a snobbery. the words far right have just become so meaningless. they're just chucked around like confetti anyway, so they just become they meaningless. now those words i, i completely agree and worse than far right is thrown about for nonsensical reasons as well. >> that , people for nonsensical reasons as well. >> that, people on the right of politics are regularly called nazis , though they would have nazis, though they would have the polar opposite beliefs to the polar opposite beliefs to the very awful nazi party and i think the media has a tendency to be part of the london metropolitan elite, and they don't actually know what's going on in the rest of the country or how people are thinking. >> do you know, i think there's abuse on both sides. so there is

abuse on both sides. so there is abuse of people on the right. there's certainly abuse of people on the left. and i'm a passionate believer in free speech and open debate and the broadcasting regulations need to enable that to happen. and it needs, particularly in election campaign broadcasters who don't overstep the mark by criticising individual politicians. overstep the mark by criticising individual politicians . that individual politicians. that happens. i don't it was wrong. >> well, yeah, but it's also just very embarrassing because like literally hours or so later, then they come out with their apology and it just undermines you going forward , it undermines you going forward, it makes people think that you're slightly more ridiculous. i'll tell you something else that caught my eye. that was ridiculous as well. ed davey. on the campaign trail today are really. i have never been a political adviser in all my life . it might not surprise you to learn, but if i was, i really think that i would be able to advise candidates, etc. not to do stupid things like this. watch . ed davey .

watch. ed davey. so oh my, oh my, oh, i'm enjoying this. >> honestly . oh two down, two down. >> i mean, i've just got no words. it's absolutely ridiculous and embarrassing. we can grow up. get your suit on, get in your office and start communicating properly. and i can tell you what. there'll be a lot of, victims of the post office scandal that won't be feeling sad at all, or perhaps feeling sad at all, or perhaps feeling quite cheered up by those images. what do you makes? we'd all get in touch all the usual ways, and i'll see you in two. lots more. i want to talk about crime, grooming, gangs and more. see you in two.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry till 7:00. the former brexit party mep and rees—mogg and the

former labour minister bill rammell alongside me. now very important topic next, because of course, you'll all be familiar with the grooming gangs, scandals and a lot of the failures. quite frankly, associated with that. well, finally, everybody , there's finally, everybody, there's going to be an independent inquiry in oldham . i can't help inquiry in oldham. i can't help but wonder why on earth did it all take so long? i reporter charlie peters is here to update us on the latest. hello, charlie. >> hi, michelle. well, for years the labour run council in oldham has rejected calls and several motions to put forward an independent judge led or panel led inquiry into the town's grooming gangs scandal. but earlier this month in the local elections, they lost overall control of the council. they went from 31 to 27 seats and in doing a deal with local independent groups that had been campaigning for that independent inquiry, they've returned in a minority government and they will now support and facilitate

a motion to launch that inquiry that comes on the back of some seven motions that have been voted down in an extremely toxic political atmosphere in the town . some history here in 2022, the greater manchester combined authority launched its own assurance review into the situation in oldham, and it found vast failures from just a sample of cases where social services and the police were not communicating effectively and were not following the correct practices. one survivor, sophie, named in that report anonymously. of course, she was found to have been failed appallingly when she was abused by five men on one single day in the mid—noughties. she is now part of this process to launch the new inquiry, and told me today that she had supported the new launch of this inquiry. today that she had supported the new launch of this inquiry . we new launch of this inquiry. we understand that council officers will be leant towards the independent lead team to facilitate this motion and now, after independent inquiries in telford and rotherham, we could

soon see one in oldham. >> fascinating stuff, charlie peters, thank you for that. this disgusts me, you know, because , disgusts me, you know, because, i think why on earth how is it even possible when you've had a scandal of this nature? children? we've just been heanng children? we've just been hearing those stories there about that 12 year old as a small example, how is it even possible to sit around and have a vote about whether or not there should be an independent inquiry into this? surely that is just a given, inquiry into this? surely that isjust a given, i agree, i is just a given, i agree, i think what has happened in oldham is shocking. >> i think the labour council has been too slow to agree to the independent inquiry. i welcome the fact it's now going to go forward, and i think what they've rejected it, they've voted to reject it multiple times. >> why ? what right thinking >> why? what right thinking person would say actively reject an independent inquiry about children being abused ? children being abused? >> you know, i agree with you, i do understand that there's been massive misinformation campaigns going on against the original manchester authority inquiry

back in 2022, and i've no doubt that that's been taking place with regard to this proposed independent inquiry, but it should have been put in place soonen should have been put in place sooner. it is now going to going to happen. and what i think is really important is that regardless of your ethnicity, regardless of your ethnicity, regardless of your ethnicity, regardless of the colour of your skin, if there has been wrongdoing , skin, if there has been wrongdoing, it's skin, if there has been wrongdoing , it's got to be wrongdoing, it's got to be investigated and the perpetrators have got to be brought to book. >> yeah, just it just blows my mind. it beggars belief that you can actually sit there and vote to reject an independent inquiry into children. children being groomed and repeatedly abused. it's disgusting, anyway, your thoughts i it defies belief that the labour council have fought against this inquiry for so long that there are decades of children whose lives have been ruined, who are now adults, no doubt suffering the repercussions of that. >> they don't just deserve justice, they deserve a future

where they can be sure nothing like this could happen to their own children. they need to know that where they live is a safe place . and by not inquiring, not place. and by not inquiring, not trying to find out what happened, who did what, how was this allowed to happen on such a huge scale? they are letting all of those victims and all the current children in oldham down. i think it's revolting that they have voted against it for so long. there are still activists in oldham saying we will never. the labour party will never bnng the labour party will never bring this to the floor of the chamber. officially, the two independent councillors who crossed the floor to support labour believe they've got a deal with them to have a vote on this inquiry, which they will support . the tories and lib support. the tories and lib dems. the rest of the council are supporting it already. laboun are supporting it already. labour. their position is actually still quite unclear. >> is it unclear? >> is it unclear? >> well, my understanding is that and i think they were wrong not to support it before now. my

understanding is they are supporting it now and not a moment too soon. i think the wider context here is , is and wider context here is, is and i don't in any sense justify this, but i think it is the community pressure in in a multi ethnic community that has blocked the investigation in particularly given the campaigns of misinformation, i think that's wholly wrong. >> what do you mean? >> what do you mean? >> what do you mean? >> what campaign of misinformation? some of my viewers weren't know what you're talking about. >> so my understanding is there's been social media campaigns attacking the original manchester authority inquiry, saying it was biased against muslims, it was biased against people from ethnic minorities. that was not the case. and that's been fuelling some of the resistance to the inquiry . that's been fuelling some of the resistance to the inquiry. but the bottom line is appalling abuse took place and it should be investigated independently. >> and as you said , your >> and as you said, your ethnicity should have no part to play ethnicity should have no part to play in this, right? well hang on, wrong is wrong and these children need protection. >> but hold on. i mean, you've

got to be clear, because if someone's ethnicity or any other characteristic is actually part of the reasons or a contributing factor to some of what's gone on, then it absolutely is relevant. it absolutely should be explored . be explored. >> i completely agree, i meant it shouldn't stop you investigating. all right, well, you know what? >> all i will say to this is anyone any of you that voted against this. shame on you. you are absolutely disgust me. you've got no place in public life . the most basic tenant of life. the most basic tenant of society is that our children should be safe on our streets. wherever those streets may be. so absolutely disgusting behaviour and it should never, ever have been tolerated to vote against those inquiries. but your thoughts on it all, all the usual ways coming up after the break. there's an awful story you perhaps will have seen it. the watch dealer that was robbed over the weekend. well, unfortunately he has sadly been found dead less than 24 hours after that robbery. do you think we're doing enough to protect victims of crime in this country

or

not? hello, everyone. i'm michelle dewberry, and i'm with you until 7:00 tonight. the former brexit party mep, nunziata rees—mogg and the former labour minister bill rammell remain alongside me. now, did you see this awful, situation ? this was, a jewellery situation? this was, a jewellery store essentially in richmond, which for those people that are not familiar with that, it's in southwest london. you could argue that it's a kind of affluent area of london. a watch dealer there was working these two men, and i'm deliberately putting these two men's faces on the screen because these two scumbags went on whilst being served to then essentially get that watch dealer in like a, like a headlock, basically. and they helped themselves to whatever they wanted to filling up a backpack, on one of their backs as they went. those two people are still at large. how they can still be at large is

absolutely beyond me, because you've got very clear footage of them. one of them has got massive tattoo on his neck. so somebody somewhere knows who these two people are, we need them to be found. not least because the man that was the victim of that crime has very, very tragically, now been found dead at 24 hours after that robbery. and i've got to say, i chose not to show it, but the cctv footage of that attack absolutely went viral. do you think we do enough to support victims of crime? >> i think it's very difficult for the police that how? it's not entirely their fault, that people are affected by crime . people are affected by crime. and in fact, the police's real skills are should be focused on preventing the crime in the first place. that richmond is an affluent area of london. it's not where you expect to find this kind of thing happening, but i bet they haven't seen a policeman on kew road in years and that if we had police actually preventing crime, they

wouldn't need to be supporting the victims. true. so tragically get horrifically affected. >> well, i think we do need to do more to support victims, you know, one of the huge issues at the moment is it's massively traumatic to be the victim of any crime. and one of the huge issues is the massive delay of getting cases to court . and i getting cases to court. and i think that's a huge concern. the labour party has proposed that there ought to be a duty on chief constables and chief crown crown prosecutors to provide support for victims, and i think that's absolutely the right way forward. there ought to be support for victims of sexual abuse and rape to be supported through the courts and the legal system, and we need to tackle the delays . do you know the delays. do you know something i discovered looking at this today? we waste thousands of hours of police officers time redacting reports, names of people on reports before they send it to the crown

prince. people, people who've been involved in the investigation before it goes to the crown prosecution service . the crown prosecution service. that's part of what leads to this delay, and it needs to be tackled. it needs to be speeded up.and tackled. it needs to be speeded up. and we do need to give more support to it. >> and in the court process, a lot of the support is actually provided by volunteers, all the london courts have a system. i don't know about the rest of the country, whereby volunteers will help guide the witnesses through the process and literally through the building, by trying to whilst trying to support them emotionally as well. and of course, all of that needs to be provided . but the police's provided. but the police's number one job is to fight. >> i'm half tempted, you know, to set up some kind of rogues galleries or some kind of scumbag watch because you've seen the other cctv footage, haven't you? those images of another guy that's wanted and yet still not being found. that guy ' yet still not being found. that guy , him look at the state of guy, him look at the state of this guy. he, is wanted , cctv this guy. he, is wanted, cctv footage. they want to talk to him about a stabbing in bournemouth. i mean , come on,

bournemouth. i mean, come on, guys, people must know who some of these people are. get them found, and let's help make our streets safer, shall we? look that's all i've got time for. there's not a lot of love i can tell you. for the labour party when it comes to voting against those independent inquiries, thatis those independent inquiries, that is coming through thick and fast on the inbox tonight. but look, that's all we've got time for. thanks, bill. thanks for non—theater. don't go anywhere. farage up next night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> good evening from the met office. here's your latest gb news weather update. whilst it is going to turn drier for most of us by the weekend before then, we still have some thundery showers around. earlier on today we had a weather system pushing its way north eastwards across the country, bringing some heavy, persistent rain. for many of us, that's now starting to clear though lingering across some northeastern parts through

this evening and overnight. and behind it, it isn't turning completely dry. further outbreaks of showery rain and some of these could still be heavy. possibly the odd rumble of thunder overnight, many places staying quite cloudy so temperatures aren't going to drop a huge amount. but there will be some clear skies around, especially towards the south. and here we could see a few pockets of mist and fog developing tomorrow morning. if we take a closer look at what's happening tomorrow morning, though, quite a cloudy start across northeast scotland and some outbreaks of lingering rain here. maybe some brightness across northwest scotland around the central belt. but on the whole largely cloudy further outbreaks of showery rain to be had, similar for northern ireland and northern england, though some bright spells possible. a brighter picture, though, across central southern england. greater chance of seeing some sunshine, particularly once any mist and fog patches clear away as we go through the rest of the day, and it is going to be quite a showery picture for most of us. any rain lingering towards the northeast may continue for a time, but the greatest story will be the fact that there'll be some hefty showers,

particularly for eastern scotland, northeast england, some of these turning heavy and thundery. elsewhere, the showers may be not quite as intense, but some rumbles of thunder are possible . there will be some possible. there will be some sunny spells in between the showers, though, and temperatures rising into the mid to high teens or possibly low 20s towards the southeast. but thursday is going to be another showery day for many of us. perhaps the showers not quite as intense as on wednesday, but nonetheless some thundery downpours are still possible, though there will again be some bright or sunny spells in between. any showers like i said at the start, it is turning dner at the start, it is turning drier into the weekend and so particularly by saturday and sunday it's looking mostly fine and quite warm. >> by by looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening and welcome to farage with me. camilla tominey big show lined up for you. of course. we're going to be reflecting on nigel's big speech on immigration in dover. and of course, that extraordinary bbc apology we're also going to be talking about whether this is a tiktok, election dominated by social media. and we're going to be speaking to the female fly fisher woman who wants to join an all male angling club. but first, here's the news with polly middlehurst . polly middlehurst. >> camilla. thank you. well, the top story tonight . pensioners top story tonight. pensioners could be in for a tax break collectively worth up to £25 billion a year as part of an election pledge by the conservative party. it could see tax free allowances rising, netting around £95 a year per pensioner rising to £275