. the prime coverage tonight. the prime minister has vowed to shut down so—called mickey mouse degrees in a new policy that will target courses that don't deliver good enough outcomes, while also promising funding for 100,000 extra apprenticeships each year. i'll be speaking to the former chairman of the conservative party, jake berry , and the party, jake berry, and the british medical association has announced a five day walkout of junior doctors coinciding with the same week as the election. is there a very faint whiff of ted heath's1974 election ted heath's 1974 election gambit? when ted heath's1974 election gambit? when he asked who governs britain and got back the answer, not you. as the labour party ties itself in knots over whether diane abbott was banned from standing in the election, will be assessing a poll that has given the tories a little glint of positive news news they desperately need. plus, as the first election debate has been confirmed for next tuesday, we'll be speaking to a man who's trained some of the most successful politicians in our time in public speaking and presentation. i'll be asking him

for his predictions. state of the nation starts now . the nation starts now. and through it all, i'll be joined by a most theatrical panel associate. associate comment editor of the telegraph, mumtaz ahmed and the historian and broadcaster tessa dunlop. that's all coming up after your very latest headlines with polly middlehurst . middlehurst. >> tom, thank you and good evening to you. well, the top story tonight is that the labour veteran mp diane abbott, has vowed to be the mp for hackney nonh vowed to be the mp for hackney north and stoke newington for as long as is possible. she said tonight she told a rally of local supporters in london that she would always stand with them. earlier, sir keir starmer said labour had not taken any decision to bar her from

standing as an mp. but mr abbott reportedly told the media that she had been blocked from running for the party. but sir keir said this afternoon those reports were not true. she had the whip withdrawn after comments she made about jewish people not suffering racism or their lives, but had the whip restored after an investigation yesterday . meanwhile, the prime yesterday. meanwhile, the prime minister has been hitting back at plans by junior doctors to stage another round of strikes next month . members of the next month. members of the british medical association are due to walk out for five days, starting from the 27th of june. speaking at a campaign event this afternoon , rishi sunak said this afternoon, rishi sunak said it was politically motivated and not in the interests of staff. meanwhile, nhs waiting list targets would be met within five years of a labour government, according to a new pledge by sir keir starmer. the plan would see an additional 40,000 appointments, he said. in england each week, making use of evenings and weekends and bringing wait times within the 18 week target . the

18 week target. the conservatives called it copy and paste politics and pointed to its plan instead to invest in nhs technology . gb news can nhs technology. gb news can reveal that environmental activists plan to target the uk's biggest and busiest airports this summer. in fact, over the last two weeks of july , over the last two weeks of july, just stop oil plans to target airports, including heathrow and gatwick at the height of the summer getaway , in order, they summer getaway, in order, they say, to cause maximum disruption. the group is also running a series of online courses aimed at encouraging and informing volunteers on the best way to carry out a protest . and way to carry out a protest. and sir keir starmer has thrown his support behind the welsh first minister, who is facing a vote of no confidence after less than three months in office. the welsh conservatives tabled the motion against labour's vaughan gething following months of controversy around donations dunng controversy around donations during his election campaign. the vote is due to take place next week on the 5th of june,

and an investigation into severe turbulence that hit a singapore airlines flight last week has found that a rapid change in gravitational force was what caused the plane to suddenly drop thousands of feet. the flight was diverted to bangkok. passengers and crew were thrown into mid—air mid—flight, with some hitting the ceilings and walls and sustaining bad injuries. a 73 year old man, in fact, died of a suspected heart attack on that flight. as it happened, dozens of others suffered injuries. the investigation's preliminary findings suggest the turbulence caused a sudden vertical acceleration . that's the news acceleration. that's the news for the latest stories. do sign up to gb news alerts, scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts . gb news. com slash alerts. >> thanks, polly. now, first of all, tonight this is the scene

outside hackney town hall where constituents have gathered in support of diane abbott . support of diane abbott. the mp for hackney, diane abbott, told the cheering crowds, as long as possible, i'll be your mp for hackney north and stoke newington. i'll not let myself be intimidated. well, does this prose pose a problem for labour? we'll be getting that to that discussion in a little bit. but day seven of an unexpected election campaign now is almost over. election campaign now is almost over . labour's election campaign now is almost over. labour's big nhs announcement was overshadowed by confusion and controversy over the party's hokey cokey handling of diane abbott's suspension. tonight, no one knows if she'll be allowed to stand or not. she's schrodinger's candidate . she's schrodinger's candidate. meanwhile, the liberal democrats have been in wales and the west country talking about farming. ed davey has swapped paddleboarding for bicycling today, and the tories have another eye catching policy.

well, an end to mickey mouse degrees. that's what they're calling it, saving the taxpayer and all that cash going to fund 100,000 new apprenticeships each year. 100,000 new apprenticeships each year . well, this is of course, year. well, this is of course, just the latest policy after a slew of policy announcements from the conservatives. first, we had mandatory national service for people turning 18. then of course, we had further announcements on the triple lock turning it into a pensions quadruple lock or triple lock squared , whatever you want to squared, whatever you want to call it. but it's been a third day in a row and a third new policy. what on earth is going on in the conservatives i'm joined now by the former chairman, jake berry. jake why on earth are you coming up with so many new policies all of a sudden? haven't you been in office for quite a while? aren't you proud of the record on which you proud of the record on which you could stand before all of these new announcements? >> absolutely, tom. i'm really proud of it. and that's why i'm delighted to be now talking to people here in lancashire and rossendale and darwen about everything we've done. but this is a general election. tom and

people expect the government to demonstrate what planet has for the future of britain, because every election is a referendum on your future and people want to know what a conservative government will do for them. compare that to the labour party, where keir starmer isn't announcing anything. he just wants to win by default. he wants to win by default. he wants to win by default. he wants to sneak into downing street and have carte blanche to do whatever he wants. we're setting out very clearly what we have achieved and what we will continue to achieve for you and your family . and my big message your family. and my big message to all of my voters here locally is don't risk it on labour, because frankly, no one has a clue what they're going to do to us when they get in the labour party today has been talking about tens of thousands of new places trying to get down those nhs waiting lists. >> of course, it's not a new policy, i'll grant you that. it's something they've said before, but you can't say they don't have any policy in that area. >> well, there are very few, don't they. let's look at that nhs policy. i listen to it very carefully this morning. i think wes streeting is probably one of the best performers in the labour party. he's a brilliant

communicator. so i listen to him with interest this morning. and what he said is the conservatives have introduced as a pilot this brilliant new scheme in saint thomas's, a hospital in london. and guess what? it works. and it's reducing waiting times massively . now what i'd say is, well, given that we're the ones who've done it, it's working. we're going to continue to roll it out. don't take false promises from the labour party, some sort of la la land that they're projecting where, you know, just because you change the government, everything will get good. you got to trust what you see with your own eyes. if something is delivering, and it's the conservatives who have implemented it, i would suggest you carry on with that, because we know the plan is working well. >> let's turn now to mickey mouse degrees. your big policy announcement today . the prime announcement today. the prime minister has been talking about it, saying that more people should do apprenticeships and potentially fewer people should go to university. what does that say to the many voters who might be thinking of voting conservative, whose degrees are suddenly being derided by your party leader ?

party leader? >> well, i'm not quite sure what, mickey mouse degrees may be, but, i don't know if that's the terminology they use, but the terminology they use, but the office for students came out with some extraordinary figures saying that up to 25% of degrees, you're actually worse off having done them, having spent those tens of thousands of pounds as a young person to do them, you're actually worse off than if you've never gone to university, a conservative government. one thing to you, tom, about the apprenticeship, which i think is hugely important, i live here in east lancashire, i'm in rossendale and darwen. we have a fantastic manufacturing base. our economy, whether it's furniture making chemicals, the aerospace industry is driven by apprenticeships. now you can get apprenticeships. now you can get a degree apprenticeship , people a degree apprenticeship, people can still get a degree, but every single business in east lancashire i'm sure is shouting hallelujah i the government is hallelujah! the government is going to push apprenticeships and drive our economic base or industrial base here in the united kingdom. and these are proper, highly paid, secure jobs where people don't go into debt to get them. and i think that's a good thing for young people.

>> well, jake, i'm really glad you've brought up the apprenticeships side of this policy. it's really important. let's listen to what ed davey, the leader of the liberal democrats, had to say about it earlier today. i think the conservatives have really not thought this through properly. >> we need more apprenticeships, but actually the conservative record is really poor. they've let young people down time and again. and since 2015, they've cut the number of apprenticeships for young people by 170,000. so this is a mission of failure. >> jake berry, there's the leader of the lib dems saying your party has actually cut apprenticeships in recent years. how do you respond? >> well i certainly here in lancashire that that isn't a figure i recognise . i haven't figure i recognise. i haven't seen the figures he's referred to. i'm glad to see you tried off, but, you know, certainly for our economy . look, if for our economy. look, if i could say one thing should be our three priorities for the lancashire economy . it would be lancashire economy. it would be vocation, vocation, vocation. we have businesses crying out for

young men and young women to come and take high quality, highly paid, secure apprenticeship here in our in our businesses. that's why the prime minister is right to focus on this. tony blair famously said , i want 50% of young people said, i want 50% of young people to go to university . that's to go to university. that's great, i support that. what about the other 50? what about the forgotten 50? we need to be prioritising apprentices, so those young people who don't go to university can get those highly paid, secure jobs that we are creating here in lancashire how. >> now. >> jake berry, just finally, the labour party today has sent out their attack dog, darren jones, to claim that the conservative party has an enormous black hole in its spending plans. this is what he said. >> well, look, the conservative party has set out a number of policies in this first week of the general election campaign, which is over £70 billion of unfunded spending commitments. and it's for the conservative party to answer the question, how are you funding these commitments ? as we've said it commitments? as we've said it today, there is a real risk of

unfunded policies affecting directly family finances, as we've experienced after liz truss and kwasi kwarteng lost darren jones, saying that there's £70 billion of unfunded spending, you've signed up to. >> well, if that's your attack dog, i think you might want to go back to battersea dogs home and see if they've got something and see if they've got something a bit fiercer. but their figures are complete and utter nonsense. they're trying to scare people. they're trying to scare people. the government is, quite rightly, set out a desire to get rid of national insurance over the very long term. it's not going to happen any time soon. and they're saying, well, that's, you know, you can have to pay for all of that in year one. no you don't. you should be having an economy where working people are able to keep more of their own money in the first place. we should be talking long term about tax cuts . and i say term about tax cuts. and i say this, tom, to your viewers and listeners at home, anyone who believes that if you vote labour and you get a labour government, that all of the pie in the sky promises they'd made national rising, the railway industry nationalising, apparently some water companies giving trade

unions carte blanche to renegotiate all their terms and conditions. anyone who believes as keir starmer, the self—proclaimed socialist, this week said that that can be paid for by putting vat on school fees and closing a non—existent now tax loophole on non—doms is dreaming. if we get a labour government , they're going to put government, they're going to put your taxes up. they've set out a massive shopping list. all of thatis massive shopping list. all of that is unfunded and that is the real risk. my dogs just walked into the background there. he could be their new attack dog thatis could be their new attack dog that is the real risk. if you vote labour. >> well, jake berry, former chairman of the conservative party, really appreciate your time. thanks for joining party, really appreciate your time. thanks forjoining us here on state of the nation. now, delighted to say that. joining me to discuss the latest developments today are the associate comments, editor of the telegraph , mumtaz ahmed, and the telegraph, mumtaz ahmed, and the historian and broadcaster tessa dunlop, as well as our prime time provocateur. as i'm told, your new title is adam adam cherry, adam, we're going to start with you because you've beenin to start with you because you've been in hackney today and diane abbott has been speaking on the

steps of the town hall saying she's going to stand no matter what. >> yeah , in the last hour or so. >> yeah, in the last hour or so. it's really interesting. right. so i will stand. i will be your candidate no matter what. no matter if i'm suspended or what, i will be there. so this is really revealing because we, i think, had assumed that regardless of what happened with this year long investigation, ultimately her, real desire was to stand down at this election with a red, you know, as part of the red team, as a labour mp at least have the dignity of doing that. now it looks like she's staying. and i was, as you say, i was in hackney earlier today asking the locals what they thought of her, what they thought of her, what they thought of her, what they thought of the labour party and the what, how they handled this hot mess and, and almost everyone i spoke to said they would back her over labour. you don't forget she has got a 33,000 vote majority in there . i 33,000 vote majority in there. i mean, in 2019 it was enough to just keep your seat. if you're a labour mp, that was enough to

get the bubbly out of 33,000 votes is enormous. yes it's a very, very labour area. >> but also, as you're saying, a personal vote attached as well. tessa dunlop, the labour party hasn't handled this well today just for balance because we've had a tory attack boy there we had a tory attack boy there we had on jake. >> it's so good to see by the way, so many television presenters remain for their constituents and return home briefly. jake, they're giving up talk tv. >> we have also heard from sir ed davey and of course darren jones as well. >> clip of ed davey not looking particularly fresh actually on the campaign trail, but he's exhausted. he's been going down sudes exhausted. he's been going down slides and wearing wet suits and etc. and no longer in the first flush of youth. so you want me now to return to diane abbott? i mean, it's a complicated situation. i think ideally, probably by 70, maybe a full time, full on, quite physical job. being an mp is something for the young ones. but jeremy corbyn, of course, at 75, some of these old boys and girls speak to their constituents. diane has not just put in time, but she established a precedent. you don't , you know, jump over you don't, you know, jump over a bar like being the first black woman in parliament, make a couple of errors a year ago when

you're into your late into your seventh decade and not be forgiven. the issue here isn't diane. it's the leadership's equivalency over the matter. keir starmer this lunchtime didn't even seem to be knowing how to direct his party. and that for me is a problem. >> and mutaz this has this raises questions about how labourin raises questions about how labour in government, if we're to believe literally every single poll or even any one of them, they're going to get into government. but they haven't handled this, sharing themselves in glory. only last friday, keir starmer said this whole investigation into diane abbott was not yet concluded and now we learn it was actually finished up 5 or 6 months ago. >> yeah, yeah, it hasn't been handled well and it's not the first thing they haven't handled well. just look at how they handled the recent by—election where the candidate had had to stand down after the nomination forms were put in. they're constantly indecisive. but i just want to challenge what you said about precedent, right. diane abbott is a symbolic mp that does not make her a good mp. >> and it does. she was good and it doesn't make say she was a

good mp. >> it's not the same as putting putting in time or doing good work, right? >> look at who suggested the age 70. she may not be able to put in all that good time. >> i just want to make the point that diane abbott is the problem. she's the one who tripped up here. but look at who she was elected with. keith vaz, are you going to defend him? >> paul boateng it's a broad church. it's a it's a broad church. it's a it's a broad church. there are many unsavoury characters on both sides of the big party. >> it is a fantastic thing that she was the first black female mp. it doesn't mean that she deserves special treatment. right? but labour says this is what this is what i think perhaps is the problem for a lot of people at the top of the labour party. >> they see, on the one hand, diane abbott being close to jeremy corbyn, wanting to turn a leaf and wanting to say goodbye to diane. on the other hand, they play into the identity politics side of things, thinking diane abbott was a trailblazer part of labour history. the first black female mp been there for almost 40 years and they find it hard to let her go. it's the duality at the heart of the labour project right now, and they need to make

their mind up right? >> if i had it my way, she wouldn't be back in the party. she'd be suspended because she made a mistake. right? they obviously the labour party obviously the labour party obviously doesn't want to upset its black mps. some of whom know. >> it's not just about making the mistake, is it? it's about how they have handled doing that mistake. the lies, frankly, they've told the media about whether this investigation was concluded or otherwise and whether she's allowed to stand or not. still a big question mark. >> i think for me, the biggest problem is the length of time it's taken to resolve, which feels a bit deliberate and it feels a bit deliberate and it feels quite cruel. this happened over a year ago to read that letter, you know, where the travellers and irish and jewish people apparently didn't experience full time racism and there was red heads thrown into there was red heads thrown into the mix and no mention of the holocaust to read it. i'd yet to go way back into the sort of annals of the observer or the guardian. that's how long ago it was published, so this feels like it should have been dealt with. and it deliberately wasn't. i think, so that they could sort of squeeze her out before the election. and this election has come soon. >> this is as much about the plp as it is about the public. i know personally that black mps have been putting pressure on

keir starmer to let her back in right. the 1987 group, which is of black mps and party members, have been putting pressure on keir starmer. that's the issue. he just needs to make his mind up and he needs to show some authority. >> and let's not forget, keir starmer was also squeezed from his muslim vote because of the equivocation over the gaza. >> an important point to make. well, tessa and mutaz, you'll be back in a little bit. and adam cherry, thank you as well. after the break, we're going to be discussing those new plans for the nhs, which have so coincidentally coincided with the announcement of a new junior doctors strike in general election week. what's

next? good evening. i'm tom harwood gb news, deputy political editor. and this is state of the nation. now, the british medical association has announced that junior doctors will strike for five days in the week leading up to the general election . the to the general election. the union is demanding a 35% pay increase, and the strikes were announced on the same day as labour's big push on the nhs.

interesting well, earlier, the health secretary, victoria atkins, criticised junior doctors for walking away during negotiations. in her words let's have a listen. >> junior doctors had a 10.3% pay >> junior doctors had a 10.3% pay rise last year. they walked out of negotiations towards the end of the year when i wanted to give them more. i've tried to keep the channels of communication open. i have gone over and above the junior doctors committee heads in order to produce a programme of work with nhs england to improve working conditions for junior doctors, because i understand they have genuine concerns and i want to help them. and now i've entered mediation with them in good faith to try to find solutions to this . but they walk solutions to this. but they walk away yet again . away yet again. >> well over to labour and it said it will not meet the 35% pay said it will not meet the 35% pay rise demand either , whilst pay rise demand either, whilst also promising to clear the nhs waitlist backlog within five years. well, the whole situation has echoes of february 1974 and that general election . britain

that general election. britain back then was in the midst of the three day working week , a the three day working week, a drastic measure brought in to conserve coal and electricity after prolonged industrial action, with union action grinding the country to a halt. the conservatives fought the election under the slogan who governs britain? while the electorate famously answered back not you. the strike will take place during the official pre—election period. this nhs strike well, that period is known as purdah, when ministers are not allowed to make political decisions. this, of course , prevents government from course, prevents government from properly entering negotiations with unions during an election campaign. so what exactly is this strike for, other than posturing? well with me still is my panel associate commons editor of the telegraph mutaz ahmed, and the historian and broadcaster tessa dunlop . mutaz. broadcaster tessa dunlop. mutaz. i'm going to start with you because this is a pretty extraordinary announcement . i extraordinary announcement. i can't i can't remember a time where there's been a strike just days before polling day. >> yeah. they've given credence to the game, to the claim that

they're just a political front. it's the worst thing they can be accused of. they're doctors. right. they had a huge amount of pubuc right. they had a huge amount of public sympathy , a huge amount public sympathy, a huge amount of goodwill before this all started. now they just look like political actors, right. you've got to ask, who benefits from this ? it's a small clique of this? it's a small clique of leaders in these unions who do the political liaising, who, you know , want to make a political know, want to make a political point, who don't particularly have hands on experience with patients, who does net benefit . patients, who does net benefit. it doesn't benefit patients. they're going to have to wait longer because these guys want to make a political point. it doesn't benefit doctors because they're losing the goodwill. it doesn't benefit the nhs because it's going to have to solve this backlog, this extra backlog on top of all the other inefficiencies it has. right? so it's not just political. it is just terrible, terrible. and it doesit just terrible, terrible. and it does it does look political, doesn't it, tessa. >> well , of course it's >> well, of course it's political. the nhs knows it'll probably get more money and fresher feet on the ground if the labour party get in. they've got their brightest button wes streeting, you know, coming out

40,000 new appointments. he's going to work them at weekends and in the evenings. goodness knows. how many strikes are we going to get then. but this is more for the conservative party because they didn't put this strike to bed before they called the election. remember, rishi, they have given 35. rishi sunak was in charge. he decided when the election was called this could have been avoided. i don't know, i'm not at the table. i don't believe that historically the restorative 35% is realistic. i want 35. i used to earn more of my 20s than i do now . yeah, so i think there are now. yeah, so i think there are huge issues. we are the generation of wage stagnation, which is why, by the way, i have an issue with the extra plus lock on the pensions. it's the young people or the young people who are having babies who need the money. and by the way, i'm past my prime on that front too. but the likes of mutaz, how much are you paid ? what is your are you paid? what is your salary? >> i do think that's appropriate to ask at all. >> the point is, we've got wage stagnation. so my sympathy for the doctors is limited. but i, i don't i don't think it's foul play. i think this is fair play because strikes the political. >> rishi tried to put it to bed.

right. | >> rishi tried to put it to bed. right. i think the really interesting thing this time is keir star is keir starmer tried to put it to bed. he asked them not to strike and they didn't listen to him. and that's really concerning because if even the prospect of a labour government doesn't stop these guys, what will, what will, what did we expect when during the pandemic, we literally hailed them as gods. >> we made them untouchable and we clapped them every day , and we clapped them every day, and then they were going to turn round and go, well then treat us like god. >> i didn't clap, i didn't clap, neither did i. >> you didn't. >> you didn't. >> i clapped. oh, you're i clapped. what a nice thought. what else was there to do? i was trapped in my flat. it was so obvious that the clap would have to be followed by cash. oh, really? >> so damn well. >> so damn well. >> okay, well, well, let's let's end on this question because. because the current general secretary of the royal college of nursing has declared that she is going to quit her job in is going to quit herjob in order to stand at the general election for sinn fein in northern ireland. and i suggest that that shows that actually these union leaders are deeply,

deeply political people. >> why are you looking like that? surprised i thought you meant to be the deputy political editor of gb news. and you look like you've just been struck by a thunderbolt. i mean, sinn fein is no longer a dirty word. they're the majority party in northern ireland. fair play to her if she thinks she can. if she thinks that she can run it better than the rest of them, why not? we've all got to have a political colour if we're going to stand. unless we're jeremy corbyn. >> independent has a final word to you. >> sinn fein hates britain, in my view. right it doesn't surprise me that someone who paralysed the nhs for a short period, or perhaps more, would join a party like that. >> so you have an objection to the nurses striking, did you? historic strike. women are 90% female workers who are historically underpaid. >> i have an objection to all people in healthcare striking right ? i have family members who right? i have family members who work in healthcare. i think they should put patients first. and i think actually and from the goodwill they get out of that and the respect they get out of that, they do get pay rises. but this isn't this isn't a way to handle it. well on that note, we've got much more to cover. >> so tessa and mutaz, thank you

very much indeed. after the break, we'll be discussing the tories new plans to go after so—called mickey mouse degrees . so—called mickey mouse degrees. how would you feel about studying serf management

good evening. i'm tom harwood gb news, deputy political editor . news, deputy political editor. it's 30 minutes. 8:32. this is state of the nation. now, are the polls narrowing in this general election? one poll yesterday took westminster by storm, showing a narrowing of labour's lead against the tories .jl labour's lead against the tories . jl partners labour's lead against the tories .jl partners found that labour's lead had been reduced from 18 to 12 points since april, albeit other polls still show the gap being much, much wider. well, what's behind this confounding result ? joining me confounding result? joining me is the co—founder of jl partners, james johnson . james, partners, james johnson. james, what what are you doing in your

methodology ? vie. that seems to methodology? vie. that seems to show a tightening here in this race. >> yes. there's two things going on, tom. one is how we end up with this smaller labour lead of 12 points compared to some of these other pollsters that have 27, 28 point leads. two things going into that. one is how we deal with people who say they don't know. there are significant number of people in these polls who are saying they don't know how they're going to vote. what we do is we use what's called a machine learning model without making your viewers go to sleep, which reallocates them based on how they voted before, but also how they're answering the rest of they're answering the rest of the survey. so, for example, if you're answering the survey, you say you don't know, but later in the survey you say that actually you think rishi sunak is best on the economy, you're a bit worried about keir starmer's record on on immigration, for example. then that will reallocate you to be a conservative or indeed, if it's the other way around, labour or lib dem or form whatever. we also have a turnout model that, based on how people have generally voted in the past . we generally voted in the past. we know, for example, that younger people vote less than older people vote less than older people . it will also reallocate

people. it will also reallocate people, in terms of in terms of that, that's what puts us a bit lower down in terms of labour leads compared to our competitors. we think that's right. we think that's the right approach because of those reasons. i've explained, you know, don't know is will make up their minds and people will turn out and vote. there's something else though, tom, which is what's happened since april. and that's amongst older voters amongst over 65. we had the conservatives eight points ahead in april. now they are 20 points ahead of labour. so we think that the conservatives are firming up that grey vote as it gets called and when. >> when did you conduct this research? was that after the announcement on the double super good plus lock triple quadruple , good plus lock triple quadruple, whatever we're going to call it was that after some of these, perhaps election bribes to the older, older voters . older, older voters. >> so interestingly, this was actually conducted on friday and saturday. so it was just before those announcements actually dropped. so it could even be that the tory party policies could shaw that vote up further. it could even win more over more reform voters. we've still got

12% of reform voters saying they'll vote reform in our poll. that's obviously quite significant . and it could show significant. and it could show there's more for the conservatives to squeeze. however, i would say the conservatives shouldn't get too excited. we put out another report today called, red votes, blue values by jl partners. and what that shows is it shows that actually the average labour voter who's come who's part of labour's lead, 40% of labour's lead, i should say, they are actually more likely to share policy views with the conservatives than with labour. but they're voting labour anyway. they're they don't think rishi sunak can lead the country convincingly . they don't back convincingly. they don't back the conservatives on their overall track record of governing. so even though these policies might be popular , policies might be popular, voters might say, yeah, but the guy behind it, he hasn't got the wow factor for me. so some caution there . caution there. >> i think it's almost this sort of 14 years argument that words that we keep hearing in focus groups, that it's time for a change. these guys have been in for a long time. perhaps this

was the biggest folly of getting rid of boris johnson with boris johnson. this was a first term government with rishi sunak. well, it's a fifth prime minister in a very long time in power. perhaps that is something behind all of this. although of course boris johnson would come with his own problems too. but james johnson, thank you so much for talking through that remarkable poll and the mechanics behind it. well, here's what the prime minister had to say on mickey mouse degrees earlier today. >> what someone who believes that you have to go to university and all the apprentices i've been to talking this morning are part of that, describing it as a best decision they ever made. >> and what we do know is that there are university degrees that are letting young people down independent studies say that around 1 in 5 people who are on degrees would have been financially better off. not doing them. about 1 in 3 graduates are on non graduate jobs, so actually we are better off providing those young people with the opportunity of a high quality apprenticeship. the regulator will be given the powers to look at underperforming degrees, looking at the progression rates, the

drop out rates, the earnings of people on those degrees and instead we will use that to money fund 100,000 new apprenticeships . apprenticeships. >> well, in response, the shadow education secretary, bridget phillipson, pointed out well, she said it was laughable that the tories had had presided over halving of apprenticeships . she halving of apprenticeships. she said it was laughable for them to now be announcing this with labour pointing out apprenticeship achievements among the under 19 are down 50, while starts have dropped by 30% in every english region. that's according to labour research. well, joining me are my panel, a commenter, associate commentator of the telegraph, mutaz ahmed, and the historian and broadcaster tessa dunlop. tessa is the sort of anti mickey mouse degree angle , a potentially a degree angle, a potentially a vote winner for rishi sunak. you know what? >> what was rishi sunak all about them, man? trying to pretend that he's saving young people money by steering them into worthwhile degrees and apprenticeships. what he's concerned about is the one in

every £4 that the government lends as a student loan, not getting repaid because we are not hitting the target, earning figures to repay our student loans . figures to repay our student loans. that's about figures to repay our student loans . that's about wage loans. that's about wage stagnation and it's so soulless , stagnation and it's so soulless, isn't it, that you judge the value of your degree on your earnings? i consider myself vastly superior to you, tom, but i probably earn less than you, you know. does that mean i'm actually somehow worth less than you as a human being? no, of course it doesn't. and the government ? government? >> this is about pounds and pence, isn't it? >> because we could have used to be, but we. >> it never used to be. it neven >> it never used to be. it never. we never had. we never had half the population going to university 2012 and 2019. >> do you know which course has seen the biggest slump in applications? which is it in english? that is a travesty. >> well, let's turn my daughter in. >> who's as good at english as she is at maths, is doing maths because she looks at the state of the economy and says, i ain't taking a punt on english. i'll do maths. by the way, if you do

a maths a—level, your earnings will be 10% higher than other people. well, is that such a bad thing? >> after all, it's just soulless. >> it's like china, isn't it? i'm just. i'm just saying we need to muscle up. but i don't like being told to muscle up by my prime minister. and that song. >> mutaz. what do you make of this? are we becoming like china? >> future earnings matter a lot to students from low income households, right? they they want to move up the ladder. >> we've got more households with low incomes these days than we did 40 years ago. >> they want to move up the ladden >> they want to move up the ladder. and this is the tragedy of these scams, right? are they not mickey mouse degrees? they give these people a false hope, right, that they will obtain this piece of paper and they'll be able to get a good job with it. instead, they're saddled with 50, £60,000 worth of debt, and then they have to work in retail for 18 to 20. >> could you name which which degrees ? which degrees are you degrees? which degrees are you predominantly concerned about these nick gibb because rishi sunak didn't cite a single degree that he considered to be. >> we know it's about 13% of degrees. >> name one. name one of these degrees. >> why do i have to? why? >> why do i have to? why? >> i want to know what? >> i want to know what? >> how about how about this? i think we've got some examples. i think we've got some examples. i think we've got some examples. i

think we've got some examples. let's see if we can draw these up. because there's a degree called surf management at, at a university in cornwall. we're going to see if we can get these up on the screen studying the, the science of surfing. should you really need , to a degree to you really need, to a degree to go off and teach how to surf the waves in cornwall? >> quite a big part of the local economy in cornwall. but i just want to cite an example. we had this little conversation should it need to have a degree. well, what was your degree in tom? my degree was in politics. right. so you're one of the rare people who did politics. he's managed to cash convert it. but at staffordshire university earlier, mutazz was citing, oh, you can do a david beckham degree. and i thought, that's absolute codswallop that's the sort of thing somebody who writes for the telegraph would come up with. so i googled it. staffordshire university offered as part of their sociology, sports science and media studies, a module on david beckham as part of a module of from football from folklore onwards to the modern era that is. and that was then somehow dubbed down into david beckham studies . studies. >> surfing studies would be a

perfect apprenticeship, right? it's a practical thing. you learn how to do it, blah blah blah. >> great place to here it is, i was saying, here it is on the cornwall college university centre surf science degree, a two year degree in surfing. yeah. you got the word science in there haven't you though? you do, you do. i'm just thinking. i'm sure there is some science to surfing, but perhaps this is something that's better as an apprenticeship than going to university and racking up all that debt. >> why not earn while you're doing it? >> but i suppose it's about looking at our the national value of being allowed to learn for learning sake. experiencing, a time in your life that you'll never reclaim a pursuit of the dream. and i don't think that's so damaging. >> university is in britain today are not about learning. they become machines. they become factories. >> although i have to say, i have to say the value of the degree , the value add at degree, the value add at university for me wasn't necessarily learning how to do regression analysis. what was it was it was going to debate and

associate and make friends and sort of use all of the society stuff. so perhaps it doesn't actually matter that much what you study, as long as you make your own progress there. we're going to pause this conversation though. but mutaz and tessa, thank you so much. it's been a thoughtful discussion on next up, who has the right stuff. sunak or starmer? we'll be judging the public speaking skills of the men competing to be our next prime minister with professional politician presentation coach graham davies . don't touch that

good evening. i'm tom harwood gb news, deputy political editor. and this is state of the nation. now right out of the blocks. when the prime minister announced that snap election last week, he challenged sir keir starmer to six television debates, claiming that starmer didn't have the courage to face him. well, the leader of the opposition , sir keir starmer, opposition, sir keir starmer, rejected that offer, opting to

stick to two tv debates one fewer than were agreed to in 2010. well, he said, he'd prefer to engage with voters in, in person, out and about in the country and that he knew what the prime minister would say. however, another spanner was thrown into the works when gb news presenter nigel farage, though not a leader of any party, challenged rishi sunak to a debate on immigration. just yesterday, a spokesman for the prime minister rejected that offer on the grounds that only two people could win the race to be prime minister. and those are the two leaders of the main parties. but just today, itv confirmed it will be hosting that first debate of the campaign between sunak and starmer next tuesday. the two are hardly known for their charisma, so it'll be interesting to see how much character will be on display. but one man might have a better idea than most of us. i'm joined by a man who knows most more than most, about public speaking. he's trained the likes of michael gove, sajid javid and kemi badenoch . the political kemi badenoch. the political presentation coach graham davies

. well, graham, thank you so much for joining . well, graham, thank you so much forjoining us in the much for joining us in the studio , i suppose a lot of studio, i suppose a lot of people, when they think about political presentation, they think of the past masters, people like tony blair would, would be generally considered to be a gifted communicator. i think a lot of people would ask the question , who's who's at the the question, who's who's at the top of their game today? well well, there's an interesting contrast between keir starmer , contrast between keir starmer, rishi sunak and i have to say, david cameron , because he was david cameron, because he was a political presentation performer on a par with tony blair. >> and actually some of the performances that david cameron has put in on television and on video, where he does that amazing thing that only experienced tv presenters can normally do of talking and walking to camera , it showed walking to camera, it showed that really he was one of the outstanding presentational polymaths of politics, and keir starmer and rishi sunak are quite significantly below that. i would say . i would say. >> do you think that's just

experience? david cameron was leader of the opposition for five years, before he was prime minister and then prime minister for six years. he's he's been in the game. he's worked through that experience. or is it something natural? >> well, i think that presentation, public speaking is not necessarily something natural that people are born with. it's not a science either, andifs with. it's not a science either, and it's not an art. i see it as and it's not an art. i see it as a as a sport. it's a highly adrenalized activity that takes place in front of an audience, but you only get really good at it if you learn some specific techniques and you rehearse those techniques under pressure , those techniques under pressure, hopefully with a coach. >> brilliant. well, let's get into some of those techniques . into some of those techniques. now i want to show you a clip of keir starmer speaking earlier today, and we'll have a look at his hand movements , which is his hand movements, which is nearly 8 million on the waiting list. >> this is shocking, by list. >> this is shocking , by the way. >> this is shocking, by the way. it's never been that high, and certainly in the hospital where my wife works, it's bearing down on the staff because every day they're concerned about the fact that they , in a sense, can't get that they, in a sense, can't get on with the day job because the

backlog. so there he is. >> he was bearing down on the staff and sort of crunching his hands together. he's almost showing the words that he's speaking. is that a good thing to do? >> well, he looks a bit choreographed when he's done that, because you have to remember that he was a criminal barrister and criminal barristers tend to be a little bit stiff in their presentation . bit stiff in their presentation. often i should know because i was one myself for 12 years. stiffness was my stock in trade and so he's trying to break out of that stiff mode when he's talking politically, especially when he's doing it in the shouting match known as prime minister's question time. i have to say that it doesn't really enhance his rather stiff image when he does the occasional gesture, which looks as if he's been told to do it right. >> so because it's less fluid, it's more jerky , it perhaps it's more jerky, it perhaps comes across as as less natural. well, let's have a look at the prime minister as well. this was the prime minister attempting to be quite friendly with voters earlier today that you need.

>> i love the nhs. i'm from an nhs family . my dad was a gp, my nhs family. my dad was a gp, my mum was a pharmacist and i've worked incredibly hard to get the waiting list down. he's almost clutching his hands together towards his heart when he says i love the nhs. >> i'm from an nhs family. my dad was a gp. i suppose he's trying to be meaningful there. he's trying to be meaningful and he's trying to make every word and every sentence more important than the one before. >> and sometimes he tries too hard and it comes across as being too earnest. you'll notice also in that speech that actually, if we did listen to the words, you'd find that he's actually relying on some old phrases. i wonder if there's anybody in the country who doesn't know that his dad was a gp and his mother was a pharmacist . oh, at the moment pharmacist. oh, at the moment what he lacks is probably not enough new ways of phrasing old ideas. he's going back to stock phrases , and it's not long phrases, and it's not long before he always starts talking

about delivering for the british people. >> although a lot of politicians would say it's that repetition of messages that they have to use to get through into people's heads. but some do it better than others. >> well, of course, if you listen to the lynton crosby view from about, 7 or 8 years ago, he would say that about the time that professional journalists and professional coaches are getting tired of a particular wording, that's the time when the general public are only beginning to absorb it for the first time. but i think that actually , because of the actually, because of the preponderance of tv stations now and social media, we're getting and social media, we're getting a bit wise to that and getting bored more quickly. we live in the adhd generation. the strong and stable government trap that theresa may fell into . theresa may fell into. >> well, should we have a look at someone else? this is a rather old video of nigel farage in the european parliament of filtering out extremists in favour of people fleeing in genuine fear of their lives , and

genuine fear of their lives, and as such, there's a certain passion to the way he's speaking there, but just one sort of rather jerky hand there, but just one sort of ratherjerky hand movement. well rather jerky hand movement. well he recently described both keir starmer and rishi sunak as essentially middle managers. >> you never accuse nigel farage of that. he's a cabaret man and you can tell that he enjoys the whiff of greasepaint and the smell of gunpowder. i think that when he has passion, it's very effective . he doesn't always effective. he doesn't always have the substance to back it up and is that important? >> because in all of this conversation, i suppose you can only ever put some lipstick on. i'm reaching for a metaphor here that i think would be rude about certain politicians, but but substance matters as well as style it does. >> but nearly all politicians that i've worked with benefit with a specific process which leads to precise material. and then a perfect performance. actually, no, i'll rephrase that . there's no such thing as a

perfect performance. i'd say you can lead up always to a powerful performance. if you've got the right presentation preparation structure. well graham davies, it's been an absolutely fascinating conversation. >> thank you so much for coming in and for being put on the spot there with those politicians we showed you. well, that's it from me this evening. coming up next. it's patrick christys. >> yes. well it's all action tonight from diane abbott. the chaos has taken a new twist in the last hour or so. so i'll be talking all about that mickey mouse degree. should we bin them off? is it time to destigmatize apprenticeships? i've got a labour frontbencher on a lib dem big hitter as well. lee anderson has got some serious questions to answer. by the way , about the to answer. by the way, about the way reform's campaign is going, and i will also have all of tomorrow's newspaper front pages. it is two hours of non—stop action. don't miss it. brilliant >> sounds like an exhilarating show. patrick christys up next. well, that has been all from me. i'd like to say a big thank you to all of the guests on state of the nation this evening. and of course, i'd like to point out a

little fact about the weather. and that is it's always sunny in somerset. of course, i'm contractually obliged to say that while i sit and keep this seat warm for a certain member of parliament who ceases to be a member of parliament at midnight tonight. yes, it's the dissolution of parliament at midnight. from then there are no mps. that's a fact . keep you mps. that's a fact. keep you going. and this is state of the nation. see you tomorrow. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update. it's going to be another showery day tomorrow. the showers will be much more focused across eastern areas and it should stay a bit drier across the west. that's as high pressure is slowly building in from the west, but in the east low pressure is still in charge and that will continue to bring some pretty heavy outbreaks of rain to parts of southern scotland, northeastern england , scotland, northeastern england, through this evening. that's where there's a weather warning in force until the early hours of thursday. heavy rain will

push into parts of wales , push into parts of wales, possibly the south—west of england as well. by tomorrow morning. so risks of outbreaks of heavy rain by tomorrow morning. a fairly mild night, though temperatures only dipping down as low as 11 or 12 degrees for many towns and cities. so a mild start to the day, but it will be quite a cloudy day and there will be some heavy rain around across the north—east of scotland. actually, it will turn much drier than it has been today through tomorrow morning. some brightness across parts of the central belt as well, but elsewhere further south across northern ireland, northern england as well. cloudy, with a risk of some showery outbreaks of rain. it's particularly this band across central england into parts of wales where it could be quite a wet start to the day. there's also a risk of some heavy showers breaking out across the south coast. first thing some areas will stay dry and i think across the west it will get drier through the day as the rain becomes more focused across central and southeastern areas of england. low pressure still not too far away from the east coast, and that will be

dragging in more in the way of cloud and onshore breeze as well. so that will bring a cooler feel tomorrow for many of us. but still in the sunshine, temperatures climbing up to the high teens, that's not too bad at all. it will still feel fairly pleasant. there'll be more in the way of sunshine to start the day on friday, particularly across western areas in the east. it's still going to be a fairly cloudy day, with some outbreaks of rain that could turn heavy as we head into the afternoon, but signs of things improving for the weekend. much more in the way of sunshine to come and temperatures climbing towards the low 20s. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> it's 9 pm. i'm patrick christys tonight. >> decision has been taken to bar diane abbott.

>> labour in chaos over diane abbott. >> do you feel comfortable about what's happened here with diane abbott? >> no. not particularly. i think this has gone on for a very long time. but should she be allowed to stand for labour? >> and one of my teachers actually suggested to me that i look at apprenticeships. so i appued look at apprenticeships. so i applied for a number of apprenticeships. but the one i. >> the tories will scrap mickey mouse degrees. the lib dems ed davey's running a wheelie . weird campaign. >> i'm not asking for anything other than i've done them some huge favours over the years as a party. give me something back. we might have a conversation. >> is nigel farage about to do a deal with the tories? >> people were chanting death to america. >> some people were not everyone, but some people were. >> find out what a prominent member of the muslim faith had to say about that. and can you spot what's wrong with this? >> i've been a centrist conservative all my life , but i