we' re we're going to bring you news >> we're going to bring you news of yet another defection from laboun of yet another defection from labour. from tories to labour. it'd be good if it was the other way around. we're also going to catch you up on day eight of the campaign trail. is it only day eight? good god, we've got a long run to go until july the 4th. we're going to be talking about reforms , idea of taxing about reforms, idea of taxing businesses that use migrants. i'm going to be discussing that with richard tice in just a moment. and let's ask ourselves this question. are the left in danger of eating themselves over the diane abbott fiasco? but first, here's the news with polly middlehurst . camilla, polly middlehurst. camilla, thank you and good evening to you. well, the top story from the gb newsroom tonight is, as you've been hearing, mark logan, who represented bolton north east for the conservatives, is reportedly leaving the party. he's told media outlets the conservatives are now

unrecognisable. his word and he's urging people to support labour instead. it's the third defection by a tory to labour in just over a month, and he told the bbc his application to join labour was going in today. meanwhile, the prime minister's warning that labour's net zero policies will hurt britain's economy . touring a factory in economy. touring a factory in buckinghamshire today, rishi sunak acknowledged that recent years had been tough. but he says labour's plan to achieve net zero is too costly . net zero is too costly. >> i've been very clear that we need to get there in a different way to what had been proposed previously and that means we need to be more serious, hard headed and pragmatic about it, because there are a couple of things that i want to prioritise. i want to prioritise our country's energy security that we've seen in the last couple of years. what's happened right when we're held hostage by dictators like putin, we can't have that happen. so that's why i'm supportive of energy coming out of the north sea. we're going to need it for decades to come. we better off getting it here at home. it's good for our

economy, good for our jobs, good for our energy security. that's something that the labour party opposes. >> rishi sunak well, sir keir starmer says he's standing by waleses first minister, vaughan gething, as labour's campaign arrived in wales today, sir keir thanked mr gething for his leadership and said he was looking forward to a new partnership with the first minister. if labour wins power. sir keir says he's proud of labour's record in wales and said mr gething, who's facing a vote of no confidence next week, is doing a very good job. meanwhile, labour's deputy leader angela rayner says she doesn't see any reason why diane abbott can't stand as an mp with the party at the general election , according to reports election, according to reports in the guardian. angela rayner believes mr abbott hasn't been treated fairly or appropriately . treated fairly or appropriately. the veteran mp had the labour whip restored this week after a long suspension. she's accused sir keir starmer of culling the party's left wing. sir keir says he wants the highest quality candidates and has described

miss abbott as a trailblazer . miss abbott as a trailblazer. the green party set out its vision to tackle the cost of living, improve housing and treat britain's polluted waterways. today in its campaign launch , co—leader caledonia told launch, co—leader caledonia told the event in bristol this afternoon that labour had backtracked on its green investments and that the greens role in the new parliament would be critical. recent polls put the party at 6, and it's hoping to elect four mps at the general election . businesses hiring election. businesses hiring foreign workers should be subject to an employer immigration tax, according to the reform party, their leader, richard tice, said today the new levy would help what he called a deadly addiction to cheap overseas labour. joined by the party's honorary president, nigel farage, they claim that mass migration had driven down wages for british citizens. i think for too many people, work doesn't pay and that's what we've got to do. >> we've got to overcome this

addiction. if you want to bring in people from overseas , then in people from overseas, then there's a price to that because this great country of ours, this incredible nation, we've all paid for it over decades and decades. so it's not unreasonable to expect you to chip in a bit . chip in a bit. >> richard tice that's the news. for the latest stories, do sign up to gb news alert. scan the qr code on your screen, or go to gb news. common alerts . news. common alerts. >> thanks, polly. right, let's just bring you up to date on this mark logan news because he has now defected. he was the former conservative member of parliament for bolton north east. he's been doing that job for five years, but he's got a majority of just 378, which does make this all a little suspicious. anyway, he said that the conservative party is unrecognisable to the party. he joined in 2019. he is now

joining the labour party but is standing down at the next election , so it's a little bit election, so it's a little bit of a natalie elphicke situation once more . who knows what's been once more. who knows what's been promised. i mean, on one hand, the labour party want to abolish the labour party want to abolish the house of lords, but i get the house of lords, but i get the impression that there may have been some pledges to ennoble people along the way should they form the next government. let's then catch up as well on. as i say, it's day eight of the campaign when the pm has been in milton keynes in buckinghamshire discussing tax, apologising for partygate and talking about, you guessed it, net zero. >> now i've been very clear that we need to get there in a different way to what had been proposed previously, and that means we need to be more serious, hard headed and pragmatic about it, because there are a couple of things that i want to prioritise. i want to prioritise our country's energy security that we've seen in the last couple of years. what's happened right when we're held hostage by dictators like putin, we can't have that happen. so that's why i'm supportive of energy coming out of the north sea. we're going to

needit of the north sea. we're going to need it for decades to come. we better off getting it here at home. good for our economy, good for our jobs, good for our energy security. that's something that the labour party opposes. >> after diane abbott vowed to stand in hackney north by any means possible, the labour leader was in wales. >> so six steps, one card. make sure you've got yours. we're going to take this to every single doorstep across wales to make our case for a changed future. one card, six steps wales and westminster working together. turning the page a change. election where we can stop the chaos and division put an end to it . we can turn the an end to it. we can turn the page and rebuild wales and the united kingdom together, working together for the future. that's the way forward. that's the choice vote. labour. thank you so much . so much. >> can i just say it's not actually a card? it's not a pledge card like tony blair's. it's a leaflet. i've seen it. it's a leaflet. i've seen it. it's like an accordion leaflet.

just to be pedantic. anyway, how about the liberal democrats? after larking about in lake windermere and riding a bicycle down a hill, ed davey launched himself down a slip and slide in somerset . there we are. and he somerset. there we are. and he also made a pledge more seriously on mental health. >> today. the liberal democrats have got a really important message on mental health, our children's mental health. and my colleagues, munira wilson and daisy cooper been out there. i'm talking to you now about our policy is to get a qualified mental health professional in every school in our primary schools and our secondary schools, and only the liberal democrats are arguing for that. with a cost of programme. it's so important our children's mental health has never been in such a crisis. huge waiting lists for help. and it's not just about their health. now now, it's how it impacts their whole future . whole future. >> well, before i bring in my superstar political panel, i'm

asking you a really simple question. tonight, we're just over a week into the campaign. who do you think is faring the best? who do you think is having a good campaign? who do you think isn't having a great campaign? has a davies larking about made you think about voting for liberal democrats or never voting for them before? let me know so you can email me on farage @gbnews .com or exe with the hashtag farage on gb news. couldn't be simpler and i look forward to hearing from you. joining me now to discuss the day's events is political journalist and commentator theo usherwood and senior reporter at the i newspaper, benjamin butterworth. theo benjamin lovely to see you. why don't i put the audience question to you both? theo first of all, who do you think is having the best campaign so far? >> labour. there was wobble yesterday. interesting. it was. there was a wobble yesterday. but if you're talking about the eight days as a whole, labour has had a better campaign so far. interestingly, i think actually rishi sunak has tightened it up a bit. if you go back to the very beginning of the campaign, the deluge, the gaffe about talking about

football to the welsh, who of course haven't qualified for the euros. and, and then he had that sort of firewall of a day on saturday where he tried to get his top team around to try and make things better. and, and that's worked to an extent, hasn't it, because we haven't seen the same level of gaffes. we haven't seen the same mistakes. and of course, labour in the last couple of days has been inundated with questions and whether diane abbott is going to stand as as a labour mp or she can stand as an independent. and keir starmer seems to have backtracked on that. so at the moment, apart from one poll which puts the lead down, labour's lead down to 12 points, it's actually remaining the polls so far are actually remaining relatively divergent. somewhere in the 20. >> to be fair, we're going to talk about both polling and this idea of the left eating itself. a little later in the show, benjamin, do you agree with that analysis? because actually, i think because of the whole furore around diane abbott that keir starmer has been quite anonymous in this campaign so far. >> yeah, i don't think either of them have really landed any blows. i think the tory campaign

is probably more agile. the fact that they got several days of people talking about national service, it looks like if you break the polling down, there's evidence that natural conservative voters at the last election rather liked it. so it's probably helping them against reform and i think what the tories have to do is to get people to not talk about the last 5 or 14 years, and i think they've done that quite effectively. they've set out a number of things. the vat pledge, the national service announcement that have got people moving on and it's a pretty low bar, but i think that's helpful for them. what i would say is that, you know, labour had its nhs day, which is absolutely essential to it winning voters over. and wes streeting is probably its best shadow cabinet performer. and that was all drowned out by the diane abbott row. but i think to some extent that is the kind of argument that people in studios like this and people that to love debate politics will get really invested in. but i suspect keir starmer isn't too worried about that, because the message that a lot of voters are heanng message that a lot of voters are hearing are, oh, we don't really want people like corbyn and probably not diane abbott and some of these other lefties. you

know, the bbc is leading with keir starmers purge of the left. i think they're probably quite pleased about headlines. >> maybe that does appeal to righties. admittedly, a lot of telegraph readers sort of writing in and saying that they don't think abbott has a place in the party because she's like corbyn and therefore that does position starmer in a more moderate place. >> yes, it does, but and it and it i completely agree with what benjamin has said in terms of what the, what the public and the voters are seeing out there. they're saying, well, actually , they're saying, well, actually, and i think even there's been some suggestion from labour sources that actually even diane abbott kept on coming up on the doorstep because people were saying, is this is this part of your past? you've still got this issue with mps on the on the left of the party still being in the party. what are you doing in effect? so i think in that respect it will play quite well for keir starmer. if diane abbott doesn't eventually stand as a labour mp and she stands as an independent with voters that he's trying to win over. however, think about the labour party conference coming up in

september , october after this september, october after this election and it's that caucus of labour members who are going out there day after day for the next five, five and a bit weeks, six weeks, knocking on doors, delivering leaflets for them. somebody like diane abbott is a real icon and he needs to. keir starmer needs to keep them motivated. the other thing i'd say is that you can take a bullish a leaders can take a bullish a leaders can take a bullish attitude to purging the party. we saw what boris johnson did with the remainers as he tried to get brexit over the line. we can see what theresa may did before she called that general election and you can feel really powerful and strong. but on the way down you need your friends. yes. and whatever, whatever victory keir starmer secures, there is there are going to be some bumps and he may not. >> i mean, that's the point, isn't it? because this, decision to withdraw faiza shaheen from chingford and woodford green, i mean, i covered that area because iain duncan smith, the tory candidate, former tory leader, got a lot of abuse. and there was a lot of activist activity in 2019 and things were

posted through the letterbox of his campaign office and graffiti was daubed on the wall. and i think the point is, is that those labour activists who were really behind somebody who was basically a corbynista candidate aren't necessarily going to go out campaigning with the same figour out campaigning with the same rigour if they get somebody who resembles, you know, labour's darren jones. yeah, who's much more of a moderate on the economy , for instance. right. economy, for instance. right. >> i suspect the starmer team won't lose much sleep over, you know, at most a few hundred. corbyn easter's not going door knocking. who previously would i suspect they'd be quite pleased about that. and i actually think what's interesting here is that first of all, as you mentioned, you know, when boris johnson took the whip from ken clarke, equally famous politician, well, it had no impact on the election. people didn't have a problem with that. but actually you've had a real problem in politics under both corbyn and bofis politics under both corbyn and boris johnson, where you've had a lot of candidates selected that just weren't up to the job. they were ideological in a way that wasn't constructive . they that wasn't constructive. they weren't sufficiently vetted properly. you know, they said

crazy things. they weren't loyal to the party. >> can we be confident that that won't be repeated? well, i speak to richard tice in a minute. he's got to select loads of candidates. i think the conservatives have still got another 170 to select labour. i mean , this election has caught mean, this election has caught everyone off guard. we know as journalists that at some point over the next 4 or 5 weeks, we're going to have candidates dropping like flies because somebody, somewhere is going to pour over their social media profile and found find out that they've said some pretty stupid things in the past. >> yeah, i mean, yes, on all sides, but that's why i think actually labour is doing the right thing, probably for the country, but also politically the right thing because it's having this round now. it's being pretty rigorous, pretty ruthless. and i think that's going to set them up in better stead for the final few weeks when they can't drop the candidate. but also after an election. >> i want to talk about the lib dem also. >> i think also though, that laboun >> i think also though, that labour, you know, is much easier to recruit candidates, recruit good candidates because they feel like a party going into government, whereas you've actually got to for many tories, they've got to select in effect,

paper candidates can't even keep michael gove on the slate. >> yeah . so that's a very >> yeah. so that's a very problematic for them. more of a challenge. shall we talk about the liberal democrats. what's sir ed davey doing. he's larking about. he faced accusations today on the campaign trail in somerset where he is making a serious point about mental health for being unserious in this campaign. we've had the lake windermere thing riding bikes down hills, slip and slides. >> theo, he just needs attention. he's just desperate for attention. and we see this. we see this . we've seen this in we see this. we've seen this in recent years, ever since 2010. you know, going into nick clegg suffering that huge, huge defeat when he was leader of the liberal democrats in 2015. and you see the squeeze because we have more of a presidential style politics now. and voters are not stupid. they worked out that either one of two men is going to be prime minister. it's either going to be keir starmer or rishi sunak, and that puts the squeeze on. interestingly, i don't think it's lib dems. so, so interesting to watch. just on the labour question, i think it's the greens. they launched their campaign today and i think are they going to become a sort

of a way for labour core labour vote. labour supporters, voters to vent their frustration. watch out to what happens with greens in the astonishing polling today, benjamin suggesting that the greens are ahead of tories in the under 50, according to yougov. >> that's nuts . i mean, that's >> that's nuts. i mean, that's a threat to the labour vote, isn't it? there's no doubt about it. you've got george galloway, you've got the greens, you've got the potential for independent candidates like jeremy corbyn sucking up votes on the left. >> yeah, i mean i think, you know, the gaza issue has been a big push of people towards the green party. and i don't know whether that will last, but certainly it's going to be a problem at this election, i think in terms of the lib dems, theois think in terms of the lib dems, theo is absolutely right that they just need attention, which is rather odd because they probably will be the story of this election. they may well gain 1520 seats. they may well be the party that takes out some of the cabinet ministers, like jeremy hunt. and i think the fact is that, you know, the lib dems, if you look at the polling, when they do well, they do well. when people don't know what they stand for, when they can just be the local candidate

and people project onto them what they would like. so the idea that we're seeing the lib dem leader, who i think only 13% of people know who the lib dem leader is in the first place, but that it's not uncontroversial. politics on divisive policies is probably an ideal scenario for them. >> can i say something a bit controversial? although, to be fair, nigel said it on this show. is this just a giant bore off between two pretty uncharismatic matic personality free zones ? free zones? >> i think the main event of the yearis >> i think the main event of the year is going to be biden versus trump. and if you if you win before the election was called and i was just speaking to friends in whitehall, especially working across whitehall in different departments, they see the big hop being truss to sunak in terms of going from somebody who's quite out there to somebody sensible , and now we're somebody sensible, and now we're going from somebody sensible. if labour win in rishi sunak to somebody more just as sensible in keir starmer, and that's how the whitehall machine would view it as, as the tories are arguing more of a security risk. >> i mean, benjamin actually in

this kind of man in white shirt versus man in white shirt, you know, not really big personalities like johnson and farage and others when you're going head to head like that and you are making it a very presidential blue versus red. if sunak can land this point that because of his association with jeremy corbyn and because of lammy statements on trump and all the rest of it, that he might be sensible but he isn't safe, maybe sooner does manage to control the narrative in that regard. okay, they're both a bit boring, but stick with what you know because actually inflation's come down and this bloke used to be an investment banker and keir starmer were never expected to be in this position did he. he thought it was going to be a neil kinnock for the next ten years i think. >> yeah i mean i think it's an irony all this sunak is trying to present himself as the safe choice. and yet he comes on the back of years of utter chaos that pretty much everyone agrees felt anything but safe government. and meanwhile starmer is trying to say that he's the moderate. he's not the lefty, but he only got there by

being part of an incredibly radical and left wing labour party. so they're both trying to make arguments that are the reverse of how they got their jobs. but what i would say is that i suspect the fact they're both boring isn't their biggest problem, because people are really tired of the noise, of politics, of the characters, of people like boris johnson, who some fell in love with and fell out of love with. and i actually think that keir starmer is the luckiest man in politics because he is boring and people are willing to accept that. and the only person more boring than him is probably rishi sunak. >> agree with that, theo, very briefly, i think i think keir starmer, if people are bored of politics and they want less politics, keir starmer has cottoned on to this, hasn't he? >> and he said i want a politics that treads more lightly on people's lives. so i think there's yeah, i think there's a he recognises that people kind of had enough and if they want to switch off, well, i'll be the safe, safe option to switch off to. you can leave if you like. you can leave the telly on and it's just going to just play in the background and it's not going to offend anyone. and he's starmer is well well attuned to that. >> theo usherwood benjamin

butterworth, great debate. thank you very much indeed, gentlemen, for joining me in the studio forjoining me in the studio this evening. well, coming up next, i'm going to be speaking to reform richard tice about migrant tax plan. don't go

welcome back to farage with me . welcome back to farage with me. camilla tominey. i'm going to speak to richard tice in just a moment. he's in the studio sitting next to me about reforms planned for a migrant tax. but first of all, let's go over what you thought when i asked you the question. who's winning the campaign so far? steve says rishi has talked more sense than any others. interesting. karen ann says nigel and richard are rocking the campaign trail like a breath of fresh air. mr tice, you'll be delighted to hear that . another viewer says labour are performing very well, although isn't hard when they are against the tories. might be a good point. nikki says the conservatives have already won. labour are tearing themselves apart . better the devil you apart. better the devil you know. i think that might be wishful thinking. nikki when you look at the polls. but do you

know what a week's a long time in a in politics. so a month's even longer. another viewer says of the lib dems. ed seems to be having a great time. indeed he does on his slip and slide. right? well let's get stuck into reform's policy announcement today on an immigration tax. i know we've got richard in the studio, but let's hear him as he launched it earlier today. >> the british economy, our great economy. it has a deadly deadly vie addiction. that's the harsh truth. it's the drug of cheap overseas labour and the cure is an employer. immigration tax. so what we need to do is we need to incentivise business to say actually , if you want to say actually, if you want to employ people from overseas, that's fine , but you've got to that's fine, but you've got to pay a that's fine, but you've got to pay a price for it. >> well, the man himself joins me now in the westminster studio. nice to see you, richard. good to see you, too. the hours aren't we? you and me?

>> absolutely. it's got to be done. we're on the campaign trail. it's great fun. >> make hay while the sun shines. a little bit of sun. >> a little bit of rain. right. but this was i mean, this was a really important announcement. and you might say it's a surprise to be thinking of something where you actually need to raise tax. yes, but it's really important that as you saw from the clip there, the truth is that the business community have become addicted to cheap overseas labour, like a drug and there's no contribution. it's unfair on british workers because the cost of housing, the cost of our infrastructure, which we've all paid for over as taxpayers for decades. and yet what actually mass immigration, it's basic supply and demand. it depresses wages. it suppresses wages for british people. and that's what we're seeing. and that's what we're seeing. and that's the reason why we've had almost zero real wage growth for 15 years. and while we're in the longest recession per person, which is what really matters over the last two years because of mass immigration, there is a direct link. and yet business

don't need to pay for training. for example , and all of these for example, and all of these things. so we're saying to business, we're saying, look, it's the choice is yours. but you have to recognise that part of your responsibility to our community and our society is to train up and progress and pay the right wage for british workers. let's delve a bit more into some of the detail, because there's a few aspects to this policy that aren't clear to me. >> so i do think that you're open to the attack line, that you're now taxing business more, not less. and you have been banging on about bringing corporation tax down. so that seems slightly counterintuitive to me. i mean, you're actually taxing businesses more now. that's the proposal. >> but that's a proposal. and if business didn't change their current behaviour , then that current behaviour, then that would generate additional about over an electoral cycle about 20 billion. but that would then be invested in apprenticeships and training for young people. but businesses have the choice. so we're saying to business we think that you should do more for young british people who are currently trapped on that cycle of do i work? >> don't i work on benefit businesses that put adverts in where they need to, in

recruitment agencies and the local press and all the rest of it, and they can't get the british workers because they don't want to do certain kinds of jobs. >> i don't accept that because the reality is we know it worked in the 80s and 90s before mass immigration. what's happened is the businesses have got away with paying lower wages. and it's very simple, basic economics. if you can't find the laboun economics. if you can't find the labour, you've either got to offer a higher price or you invest in capital equipment to improve the productivity, to replace the labour. that's what's happened for 200 years until mass immigration came in the last 20, 25 years, businesses more tax on those migrant workers, then you could arguably say that they'll have less money to pay on wages in general, to employ british workers. now, what history shows is actually, if they can't afford it, they'll invest in capital equipment, they'll improve productivity. we've got a productivity crisis and all the experts are puzzling, scratching their noses, saying how does this work? >> how do you judge how you identify by the work of being a migrant? are you saying that they non—british passport? yeah, but do you understand? do you

realise that 8 million people in the uk don't have a british passport? well there's about there's about 4.4 million foreign nationals in work according to the ons. >> so that's i know, but there's a, there's quite a surprisingly large proportion of working adults in this country that don't actually have a passport because they don't travel. >> so how would you deal with those? >> that's that's what we're looking at. it's for business to come back and say, have you looked at this proposal? >> why is it for business to come back and give the details? >> because because that's what we put forward a proposal and the business say we understand what you're trying to do. it does work here. it does work here, but it doesn't work there. we're saying for example, right in there would be an exemption for health care, of course, and social care because that's sensible. >> but equally things have got a huge number of absolutely. >> and that's great. so that's why we've got that exemption and also an exemption for small businesses. >> five people and you say five people. and below i mean most businesses, one of the employers employees is usually the director. maybe there's also the secretary. so that takes two out. you're not talking about small businesses really. you're

talking about micro businesses being exempt. but that's also aren't. that's how ghosts hang on a minute though. you're disincentivizing people to grow their businesses beyond five with more migrant workers . with more migrant workers. >> no, no, it's completely the opposite. we're incentivising people to be ambitious, to be entrepreneurs, saying, you've asked me a question. let me answer foreign workers. >> then we're going to tax you more so people will think, my goodness me, right? let's just keep our employee count down and therefore you're not growing the business. in fact, you're doing the complete opposite. they've got a choice. >> and that's a great thing. that's how markets work. you have a choice. do you want to pay have a choice. do you want to pay more. because there's a brilliant person over there that i want to pay, in which case i'll pay a bit more. or actually i'll pay a bit more. or actually i want to employ british workers, young people, train them up, get some loyalty, grow them up, get some loyalty, grow the business that way. that's how it used to work. >> say a business has five migrant workers and a sixth comes in. are you taxing the business on the basis of all of those workers? six of them, or just the extra one? >> it'd be just the extra one, right? >> let's bring rocco forte, sir rocco forte to give him his precise name. who's based in rome? he's the chairman of rocco

forte hotels, where he's got a hotel or two, and he joins us now. sir rocco, really intrigued to hear your reaction to this story. indeed, this proposal , story. indeed, this proposal, because i know i've interviewed you many times in the past. because i know i've interviewed you many times in the past . you you many times in the past. you know, you've got a large foreign workforce. there's a lot of people working in hospitality in the uk who don't have a british passport. rocco >> yes, indeed. and i like, of course, a lot of , what reforms course, a lot of, what reforms approach is to dealing with the economy and the problems of this country. but i think this is the most crazy thing i've ever heard. and it's nothing to do. it's nothing to do with businesses . it's government. is businesses. it's government. is government not controlling immigration. and clearly it's a it's a policy of the current government to allow 2.5 million people to come into this country , over the last two years when they have complete control of their borders, they can do anything. we can do anything we like with our borders, and we

can exclude people from coming here. immigration in itself is not a bad thing. it's the right kind of immigration that we want, not the wrong kind. and what we've seen in the last two years completely the wrong kind of immigration, 2.5 million people coming in and a million leaving the country as well. and they're leaving because a lot of them are leaving because conditions this country are not very attractive to the moment because of government policy. and the, the job, the, the job vacancies have not improved with all these people that have come in in my, in my i have two hotels in the uk, browns in london and the balmoral in edinburgh, browns in london. 60% of the people who work there are not english. they don't have engush not english. they don't have english passports, they're all people who stayed after brexit and have pre—settled or settled status. so am i going to be taxed for employing for employing those people in edinburgh? it's, 40% of the workforce is in is.

edinburgh? it's, 40% of the workforce is in is . british 60, workforce is in is. british 60, yeah. 40% is british. 66, 60. 60. no. sorry 47. i know what you're saying. >> 40% is british and 60 isn't. >> 40% is british and 60 isn't. >> yes. >> yes. >> these these i have very good training schemes, and development schemes. i go to all the english, hotels , schools and the english, hotels, schools and training colleges. we advertise for labour. we employ the best people to do the jobs out . the people to do the jobs out. the wages we pay are well above with minimum wages and not wages, you know, on the breadline and people, people who are foreign workers we employ are living in this country and have to afford to be able to live in this country. so we're paying very good wages. okay. so let me put all this to richard scirocco. >> let me put this to richard, because you basically lambasted this as a crazy idea . and you've

this as a crazy idea. and you've made, i think, the pretty valid point that why you penalise businesses when it's a governmental responsibility to control migration and to make sure that we employ import skilled workers, not unskilled . skilled workers, not unskilled. i mean, you would be saddling sir rocco forte, who's somebody who has flirted with the idea, by the way, of switching allegiance from the tories, who he was once a donor for, to reform . you'd be taxing him to reform. you'd be taxing him to the hilt. >> well, at the two points that rocco quite rightly makes there. the first is that on government immigration policy, yes, we've got mass immigration over the last couple of years, which is a complete disaster. and it's been too low skill. so i agree with him on that . but the other point him on that. but the other point is, look, we've got over 9 million economically inactive people in the united kingdom, and we've got to get those people back into work. we've got to train up and skill up and incentivise and motivate our own people. so what we're doing is giving businesses the choice. if the business wants to continue employing , the business wants to continue employing, you the business wants to continue employing , you know, wants to employing, you know, wants to employing, you know, wants to employ people, that it's the right people, whether it's in

hospitality or whatever, then then that's their choice. but there is a there has to be a cost. there's a recognition of a cost. there's a recognition of a cost of bringing people from overseas to the uk. and it does , overseas to the uk. and it does, without question, have a depressing effect on local wages. and that's what history shows. so you know, i understand rocco's point there, but the reality is the current system is failing everybody. so rocco briefly, is this now going to affect the way you cast your vote on july the 4th, i haven't decided how i'm going to cast my vote on on july the 4th, but you talk about productivity. productivity is just as bad, in continental europe as it is in the uk. the worst level of productivity is found in government departments, much worse than anything in industry that's got nothing to do with foreign workers. and in europe, it's nothing to do. it's to do with restrictions on, it's restrictions on businesses and the way businesses are , are

the way businesses are, are controlled. and also it's to do with the welfare system and, and the, the tax that you pay the marginal tax you pay, if you go back into work, there's also a post, covid syndrome where people have decided that perhaps they don't want to work after all. and so i don't think it's a i don't go out to india to recruit people to come and work for my business. i'm not i'm not actively involved in recruiting people from overseas. i'm employing people who apply to me. in, in this country. and i'm taking the best people to do the jobs. it's a service industry. you can't invest in machinery to employ less people actually need more people to give better service. it's about the number of people you have on on the job and luxury hotels. you've got to employ more people. i'm not going to put in machinery to serve richard tice. he wouldn't come in to my, my hotels if i did. >> perish the thought. sir. rocco forte and richard tice, thank you very much indeed for joining me this evening. well,

coming up next, we're going to be talking about why the tories aren't moving the polling dial rishi sunak acts working hard. look at him there. he's standing in front of a digger talking about net zero, the economy, tax and partygate. and yet polls aren't moving. we're going to analyse why that is in

welcome back to farage with me. camilla tominey. can i just caveat the next two chats? because something quite weird has happened in the booking process . i'm actually going to process. i'm actually going to be speaking to two different scarlett mccgwire. so we're going to have a chat with scarlett mccgwire one about polling, because there's been some interesting polling since the campaign started. and then in just a moment, i'm going to be discussing labour with a different scarlett mccgwire. so don't be confused. i'm not naming one two guests with one name. they're actually both called scarlett mccgwire. who knew? it must be a gb news first. so just to run you through the latest polling,

we've got savanta saying that labour are 71 percentage points ahead of the tories. scarlett mccgwire, who represents jl partners, has actually come out with a poll suggesting that they're just 12 points ahead. so we'll discuss that in just a moment. we've also got some personal polling starmer's considered more honest, trustworthy, genuine , strong, trustworthy, genuine, strong, likeable and intelligent. sunak is apparently seen as more arrogant and dangerous. starmer is ahead on questions such as who is more likely to repay you after borrowing money and win? i'm a celeb? for what it's worth, starmer is also ahead on who would you prefer to change a tire? would we call on starmer or sunak to perform that function? i'm not so sure . so as function? i'm not so sure. so as explained, joining us now is scarlett mccgwire one director at jl partners, scarlett lovely. and i know you you know the other scarlett. >> yeah we were just at dinner. >> yeah we were just at dinner. >> that's very cosy, wonderful. so look, how did you come up with that jl partners poll which suggested that labour were just 12 points ahead? i mean, that's

staggering because some of the other polling, this is why polling confuses me. some of the other polling has put labour at 27 points ahead. that's a massive gulf and gap. yes, absolutely. >> so we're at the opposite end of that. you're quite rightly said we're at 12 points. it's important to say we've been using the same methods as we've consistently used over the last three months. we're now going to be updating that weekly. now that the campaign has started, we do something quite different to yougov, and that's part of the reason why we get quite a different answer. so whereas yougov leave don't know. so people who tell pollsters at the moment they don't currently know how they vote. yougov leaves them be at the moment and says that's fine. what we do is we try and work out how they will likely break. so who will return to the conservatives, who will break for labour, and who will remain, you know, not voting at the time of an election that tends to squeeze things in the conservatives favour because there are more conservative, don't knows for them to win back. and actually we did see in the underlying data. so not just that 12 point lead that rishi sunak was starting to be seen more favourably by conservative 2019 voters, and that he was

increasing his lead with the over 65, now , increasing his over 65, now, increasing his lead with the over 65 is a very important, not just because it's his base, but because they're much more likely to turn out and vote than younger voters, so their votes will count for more. >> but is that why we've had this kind of over 65 offering, you know, talking about quadruple locks on pensions, talking about bring back national service, not a great appeal to the 18 to 24 year olds. maybe the tories think they've lost them already. >> it looks to me like the tories are conducting a very defensive strategy. so at the moment they're holding on to less than 50% of their base from 2019. of the people who voted for them, that is obviously not a great place to be in when you're fighting an election campaign. so what i think they're trying to is to shore up that base to think, okay, we're not going to get back the people who have switched from conservative to labour, we're very unlikely to win over people who voted labour last time. so what we need to do is to focus on those who've switched to reform and those who are currently saying don't know. those voters tend to be older. they tend to be more socially right wing, and they're fans of the quadruple pension lock and

they're fans of the national service. >> i see that the farage factor may have resulted in reform going down from 11% to 9. >> yes. so this is a trend that we're starting to pick up. actually, most pollsters are showing this at the moment that there is a dip in reform. now we'll see how this plays out over the next couple of weeks. but i do think it looks like reform may have peaked. i think it could have been quite a different story had nigel farage made a different announcement a few days ago. but as it stands, i think it looks like reform are going to suffer, especially as the question is going to increasingly become a choice between rishi sunak and keir starmer. and now, if you are one of those voters that have switched from the conservative to reform, they are disproportionately conservative voters. and i think a few of them will probably think, okay, looking at the choice, the false choice between rishi sunak and keir starmer, i'm going to back rishi sunak after all. >> but when you talk about these don't knows, the so—called undecideds and maybe we can call them the disgruntled, the assumption seems to be that they will go back to the tories. is there evidence that some of them, a lot of them, i don't know whether it's a majority or minority, are considering going with labour, like in a kind of

blair 1997 way. >> i think some of these undecided voters will end up breaking for labour in one way, is one of the biggest sort of known unknowns that i think a lot of pollsters are trying to get their head around at the moment is how many might stay at home and not vote at all. so one of the biggest questions we're trying to look at coming up to this election is how to predict turnout, how to work out who's going to come and vote, how to work out which voters who voted before, who normally vote in elections might not come out and vote. and that will change your answer as well. >> and then literally in 10s scarlet, the greens polling ahead of the tories in the under 50 bracket. >> yes. well, i mean, i think this is because the conservatives are doing atrociously with the under 50. so currently less than 1 in 10 people or around 1 in 10, depending where you look under 50, say they're going to vote conservative. i think it's more a sign of that than the greens doing especially well, hence why they're targeting the oldies. they want to shore up the oldies to make sure they come out, because they think not many other people will scarlett mccgwire scarlett mccgwire one, thank you very much. >> in just a moment, we're going to be speaking to scarlett mccgwire two, who was a former adviser to tony blair and gordon

brown, because we want take on what's within labouris within labour is labour eating itself to

welcome back to farage with me. camilla tominey second scarlett mccgwire joins me in the studio now. former labour party adviser to both gordon brown and tony blair. now, scarlet, the diane abbott situation. let's just summarise it as this. she's vowing to stand in hackney north. we still don't know whether she's going to stand for laboun whether she's going to stand for labour, having had the whip removed and then restored or as an independent. she's basically saying i'm going to stand come what may. we've got starmer saying, oh, we're still deciding what's going on, and we've got his deputy, angela rayner, saying, oh, i think she should be allowed to stand alone with, along with a load of other tory mps, including jess phillips and all the rest of it. this is a bit of a mess, isn't it? yeah, it is a mess. it's been really, really badly done because

actually it should have been. they've had months to do it. yes. and people feel very, very strongly that diane abbott needs to be recognised as what she is. i mean, you you cannot have keir starmer saying, you know, she was a amazing trailblazer, which he says quite rightly. and then say, i don't know whether she's going to stand or not. so the national executive committee will decide and all of this noise that's going on is to try and persuade the national executive committee one way or the other. i think that actually it is such a mess that that the national executive committee do understand that if they stop her from standing, it will be very, very, very bad. and i think , i very, very bad. and i think, i don't know, i don't know anything of war going on with starmer saying, no, i need to appear moderate. i've got to purge the party of the corbynistas and an argument that he's personally having with the

executive because the executive is saying, i'm sorry, this is backfiring on you badly. and now , “0, backfiring on you badly. and now , no, everyone's talking about your links to corbyn now because they're reminded of it by diane abbott herself. and nobody's talking about your plan for the nhs, your plan for the economy or anything else . well, i mean, or anything else. well, i mean, that's why this has got to be got over with. and we've just got over with. and we've just got to have diane come back in as a candidate fighting, fighting for the labour party and, and, and, and of course, the last thing we want is to have an argument about diane abbott instead of, as you say, actually talking about what would happen when labour got if labour gets into government, you've got a problem with party unity on the right, you've got a problem with party unity on the left. i mean, does broadchurch politics work ? this is going to politics work? this is going to be a perennial problem for starmer, isn't it? if he wins power, there's lots of different chatter going on in westminster about the size of the majority, and if it's a small one, he's going to have to really pay

nofice going to have to really pay notice of the harder left elements within labour. if it's a bigger majority, then maybe he can just do his own thing . well, can just do his own thing. well, i mean, i think it's really important to have a broad church because because actually labour and frankly, the tories have always had internal arguments and i think they're very, very healthy that you say, you know, i mean, one of the obvious is, is about university fees is should it have been a graduate tax or a fee? i mean, i think labour went the wrong way, but actually there was an argument. i think you've got to be allowed to have debates within parties. i think it's a shame when it's just factional and it's not people saying, well, what is the best way? i mean, i think we need more pragmatism , but but i, need more pragmatism, but but i, i'm not worried. i mean, i frankly, the left of the party, i mean, i, i'm not i don't think they're a danger. they want labourin they're a danger. they want labour in they want everybody in. labour is desperate for is a labour government so that you

can make a difference. look, i mean, you can have, as jeremy corbyn pointed out, you can have incredibly socialist policies. right? but if you don't get in, you don't actually improve life for anybody . although briefly, for anybody. although briefly, really briefly, because we'll bnngin really briefly, because we'll bring in tom to tell us what's on state of the nation in just a moment. blair never purged. no. he was cleverer than this. i think purging is completely unnecessary . i think i think unnecessary. i think i think that what you do is, is, is you accept broad churches and then you have the debates by the way, how influential do you think tony blair is on starmer's administration, it's sort of yes and no . i think they talk to and no. i think they talk to him. they talk to him quite a lot. but i mean, what we can't do is, is, is to fight the last war because we've got a very different one. so you've got peter mandelson quite close there. now you've got the tony blair institute sort of coming out with policies that seem to be adopted. i mean, do you think blair could have a role in the writing of the manifesto, even if it's a few stages removed , i if it's a few stages removed, i don't think so. i mean, i think the manifesto is most written by

now. yes. which is i mean, because whenever you ask labour for any of its plans, they say we don't know because we haven't written the manifesto, but i think that's writing it for weeks. i think that's quite right. but i mean, obviously everybody many people thought that might be a may election. so labour was ready for may. okay. >> tom harwood on that point, you know , you and i know lots of you know, you and i know lots of think tanks in westminster. >> lots of them have, you know, 20 people who work for them. the tony blair institute has over 100 getting nearer to the 200 mark. lots of these people have been taken on in the last few months and indeed the last year. many expect to be special advisers within the next government. it might be less that they write the manifesto and more that they staff the next government. very interesting stuff there. but on the programme coming up at state of the nation, we're going to be exploring two attack lines that have been developed between the labour party and the tory party. one side is saying that there are 70 billion worth of unfunded spending commitments. the other side is saying there are almost £200, £200 billion of unfunded

spending commitments. do you know what they're both telling porkies? and we've got the we've got the facts to prove it. so we'll be diving into those numbers. >> looking forward to that. stay tuned for state of the nation. you're going to find me here on sunday. but first here's the weather with mark wilson . weather with mark wilson. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello mixed fortunes in our weather as we head through friday. best of the dry fine weather towards the north and the west, but more cloud across eastern england with some showers and still feeling warm though in that sunshine we look at the pressure pattern . then at the pressure pattern. then you can see this area of high pressure it's trying to build in across the uk. so settling things down towards the north and the west, but further east close to that area of low pressure, more cloud and some rain here. so through thursday and evening and overnight we do hang on to more cloud down the eastern parts of england. like i said, with some further showery outbreaks of rain spreading their way southwards and some quite brisk winds here once again further towards the north

and the west, though drier, clearer and not totally too cold overnight as we hang on to still that breeze. so temperatures not dropping below 10 to 12 degrees in towns and cities as we start friday morning. then we get off to a pretty fine start across parts of wales and southwest england. some cloud around to start the morning, but also some sunshine. but then we run into that thicker cloud across central and eastern parts of england, with some showery outbreaks of rain affecting lincolnshire, east anglia, southeast england through the morning. so quite a wet start to the day here, but a fine picture across northern ireland. much of northern england and scotland. lots of sunshine to start the day, just a few showers across the very far north and the west of scotland and it's more of the same really, as we head through the rest of friday. always the thickest of the clouds across central and eastern parts of england, with further showery outbreaks of rain spreading the way southwards, particularly across east anglia and the south—east of england. so by the afternoon some pretty heavy showers possible across the southeast, with some thunder possible too. here but elsewhere, though the further north and the west you go generally more in the west sunshine, slightly lighter winds as well. so in that sunshine feeling pleasantly warm, we're

looking at highs of 17 to 20 degrees. there which is slightly above where we should be for this time of the year. and it's more of the same as we head into saturday. high pressure still dominating across most of the country. still a few showers across the southeast, but elsewhere. largely dry. some cloud around at times, but that cloud around at times, but that cloud will to break give some spells of sunshine, so staying largely settled as we head into sunday. into the start of next week, with some sunshine, temperatures rising 23 degrees there possible in the south, a brighter outlook with boxt solar for sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening. i'm tom harwood, deputy political editor of gb news. bringing you state of gb news. bringing you state of the nations 2024 election coverage tonight. first, it was diane abbott, then lloyd russell—moyle, and now faiza shaheen. all claimed to have

been blocked from being labour's candidates. pfizer in chingford following an inquisition by labour's national executive committee. are we witnessing a new shady form of mccarthyism ? new shady form of mccarthyism? meanwhile, the reform party has issued its first immigration policy. today, businesses will be forced to pay higher national insurance on foreign employees , insurance on foreign employees, but to higher taxes on businesses sound particularly concerned . native and a row has concerned. native and a row has unfolded over the conservative party's supposed spending pledges. shadow chief secretary to the treasury had this to say yesterday that the party has set out a number of policies in this first week of the general election campaign, which is over £70 billion of unfunded spending commitments . £70 billion of unfunded spending commitments. but was he telling the truth? the tories have come out fighting , claiming using the out fighting, claiming using the same logic means labour promises a cost. a staggering unfunded £196.4 billion. well, who's really telling the truth? plus, the message is that islam is

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