>> we're going to bring you news of yet another defection from laboun of yet another defection from labour. from tories to labour. it'd be good if it was the other way around. we're also going to catch you up on day eight of the campaign trail. is it only day eight? good god, we've got a long run to go until july the 4th. we're going to be talking about reforms , idea of taxing about reforms, idea of taxing businesses that use migrants. i'm going to be discussing that with richard tice in just a moment. and let's ask ourselves this question. are the left in danger of eating themselves over the diane abbott fiasco? but first, here's the news with polly middlehurst . camilla, polly middlehurst. camilla, thank you and good evening to you. well, the top story from the gb newsroom tonight is, as you've been hearing, mark logan, who represented bolton north east for the conservatives, is reportedly leaving the party. he's told media outlets the conservatives are now unrecognisable. his word and

he's urging people to support labour instead. it's the third defection by a tory to labour in just over a month, and he told the bbc his application to join labour was going in today. meanwhile, the prime minister's warning that labour's net zero policies will hurt britain's economy . touring a factory in economy. touring a factory in buckinghamshire today, rishi sunak acknowledged that recent years had been tough. but he says labour's plan to achieve net zero is too costly . net zero is too costly. >> i've been very clear that we need to get there in a different way to what had been proposed previously and that means we need to be more serious, hard headed and pragmatic about it, because there are a couple of things that i want to prioritise. i want to prioritise our country's energy security that we've seen in the last couple of years. what's happened right when we're held hostage by dictators like putin, we can't have that happen. so that's why i'm supportive of energy coming out of the north sea. we're going to need it for decades to come. we better off getting it here at home. it's good for our economy, good for our jobs, good

for our energy security. that's something that the labour party opposes. >> rishi sunak well, sir keir starmer says he's standing by waleses first minister, vaughan gething, as labour's campaign arrived in wales today, sir keir thanked mr gething for his leadership and said he was looking forward to a new partnership with the first minister. if labour wins power. sir keir says he's proud of labour's record in wales and said mr gething, who's facing a vote of no confidence next week, is doing a very good job. meanwhile, labour's deputy leader angela rayner says she doesn't see any reason why diane abbott can't stand as an mp with the party at the general election , according to reports election, according to reports in the guardian. angela rayner believes mr abbott hasn't been treated fairly or appropriately . treated fairly or appropriately. the veteran mp had the labour whip restored this week after a long suspension. she's accused sir keir starmer of culling the party's left wing. sir keir says he wants the highest quality candidates and has described

miss abbott as a trailblazer . miss abbott as a trailblazer. the green party set out its vision to tackle the cost of living, improve housing and treat britain's polluted waterways. today in its campaign launch , co—leader caledonia told launch, co—leader caledonia told the event in bristol this afternoon that labour had backtracked on its green investments and that the greens role in the new parliament would be critical. recent polls put the party at 6, and it's hoping to elect four mps at the general election . businesses hiring election. businesses hiring foreign workers should be subject to an employer immigration tax, according to the reform party, their leader, richard tice, said today the new levy would help what he called a deadly addiction to cheap overseas labour. joined by the party's honorary president, nigel farage, they claim that mass migration had driven down wages for british citizens. i think for too many people, work doesn't pay and that's what we've got to do. >> we've got to overcome this

addiction. if you want to bring in people from overseas , then in people from overseas, then there's a price to that because this great country of ours, this incredible nation, we've all paid for it over decades and decades. so it's not unreasonable to expect you to chip in a bit . chip in a bit. >> richard tice that's the news. for the latest stories, do sign up to gb news alert. scan the qr code on your screen, or go to gb news. common alerts . news. common alerts. >> thanks, polly. right, let's just bring you up to date on this mark logan news because he has now defected. he was the former conservative member of parliament for bolton north east. he's been doing that job for five years, but he's got a majority of just 378, which does make this all a little suspicious. anyway, he said that the conservative party is unrecognisable to the party. he joined in 2019. he is now joining the labour party but is

standing down at the next election , so it's a little bit election, so it's a little bit of a natalie elphicke situation once more . who knows what's been once more. who knows what's been promised. i mean, on one hand, the labour party want to abolish the labour party want to abolish the house of lords, but i get the house of lords, but i get the impression that there may have been some pledges to ennoble people along the way should they form the next government. let's then catch up as well on. as i say, it's day eight of the campaign when the pm has been in milton keynes in buckinghamshire discussing tax, apologising for partygate and talking about, you guessed it, net zero. >> now i've been very clear that we need to get there in a different way to what had been proposed previously, and that means we need to be more serious, hard headed and pragmatic about it, because there are a couple of things that i want to prioritise. i want to prioritise our country's energy security that we've seen in the last couple of years. what's happened right when we're held hostage by dictators like putin, we can't have that happen. so that's why i'm supportive of energy coming out of the north sea. we're going to needit of the north sea. we're going to need it for decades to come. we

better off getting it here at home. good for our economy, good for our jobs, good for our energy security. that's something that the labour party opposes. >> after diane abbott vowed to stand in hackney north by any means possible, the labour leader was in wales. >> so six steps, one card. make sure you've got yours. we're going to take this to every single doorstep across wales to make our case for a changed future. one card, six steps wales and westminster working together. turning the page a change. election where we can stop the chaos and division put an end to it . we can turn the an end to it. we can turn the page and rebuild wales and the united kingdom together, working together for the future. that's the way forward. that's the choice vote. labour. thank you so much . so much. >> can i just say it's not actually a card? it's not a pledge card like tony blair's. it's a leaflet. i've seen it. it's a leaflet. i've seen it. it's like an accordion leaflet. just to be pedantic. anyway, how

about the liberal democrats? after larking about in lake windermere and riding a bicycle down a hill, ed davey launched himself down a slip and slide in somerset . there we are. and he somerset. there we are. and he also made a pledge more seriously on mental health. >> today. the liberal democrats have got a really important message on mental health, our children's mental health. and my colleagues, munira wilson and daisy cooper been out there. i'm talking to you now about our policy is to get a qualified mental health professional in every school in our primary schools and our secondary schools, and only the liberal democrats are arguing for that. with a cost of programme. it's so important our children's mental health has never been in such a crisis. huge waiting lists for help. and it's not just about their health. now now, it's how it impacts their whole future . whole future. >> well, before i bring in my superstar political panel, i'm asking you a really simple question. tonight, we're just

over a week into the campaign. who do you think is faring the best? who do you think is having a good campaign? who do you think isn't having a great campaign? has a davies larking about made you think about voting for liberal democrats or never voting for them before? let me know so you can email me on farage @gbnews .com or exe with the hashtag farage on gb news. couldn't be simpler and i look forward to hearing from you. joining me now to discuss the day's events is political journalist and commentator theo usherwood and senior reporter at the i newspaper, benjamin butterworth. theo benjamin lovely to see you. why don't i put the audience question to you both? theo first of all, who do you think is having the best campaign so far? >> labour. there was wobble yesterday. interesting. it was. there was a wobble yesterday. but if you're talking about the eight days as a whole, labour has had a better campaign so far. interestingly, i think actually rishi sunak has tightened it up a bit. if you go back to the very beginning of the campaign, the deluge, the gaffe about talking about football to the welsh, who of

course haven't qualified for the euros. and, and then he had that sort of firewall of a day on saturday where he tried to get his top team around to try and make things better. and, and that's worked to an extent, hasn't it, because we haven't seen the same level of gaffes. we haven't seen the same mistakes. and of course, labour in the last couple of days has been inundated with questions and whether diane abbott is going to stand as as a labour mp or she can stand as an independent. and keir starmer seems to have backtracked on that. so at the moment, apart from one poll which puts the lead down, labour's lead down to 12 points, it's actually remaining the polls so far are actually remaining relatively divergent. somewhere in the 20. >> to be fair, we're going to talk about both polling and this idea of the left eating itself. a little later in the show, benjamin, do you agree with that analysis? because actually, i think because of the whole furore around diane abbott that keir starmer has been quite anonymous in this campaign so far. >> yeah, i don't think either of them have really landed any blows. i think the tory campaign is probably more agile. the fact

that they got several days of people talking about national service, it looks like if you break the polling down, there's evidence that natural conservative voters at the last election rather liked it. so it's probably helping them against reform and i think what the tories have to do is to get people to not talk about the last 5 or 14 years, and i think they've done that quite effectively. they've set out a number of things. the vat pledge, the national service announcement that have got people moving on and it's a pretty low bar, but i think that's helpful for them. what i would say is that, you know, labour had its nhs day, which is absolutely essential to it winning voters over. and wes streeting is probably its best shadow cabinet performer. and that was all drowned out by the diane abbott row. but i think to some extent that is the kind of argument that people in studios like this and people that to love debate politics will get really invested in. but i suspect keir starmer isn't too worried about that, because the message that a lot of voters are heanng message that a lot of voters are hearing are, oh, we don't really want people like corbyn and probably not diane abbott and some of these other lefties. you know, the bbc is leading with

keir starmers purge of the left. i think they're probably quite pleased about headlines. >> maybe that does appeal to righties. admittedly, a lot of telegraph readers sort of writing in and saying that they don't think abbott has a place in the party because she's like corbyn and therefore that does position starmer in a more moderate place. >> yes, it does, but and it and it i completely agree with what benjamin has said in terms of what the, what the public and the voters are seeing out there. they're saying, well, actually , they're saying, well, actually, and i think even there's been some suggestion from labour sources that actually even diane abbott kept on coming up on the doorstep because people were saying, is this is this part of your past? you've still got this issue with mps on the on the left of the party still being in the party. what are you doing in effect? so i think in that respect it will play quite well for keir starmer. if diane abbott doesn't eventually stand as a labour mp and she stands as an independent with voters that he's trying to win over. however, think about the labour party conference coming up in september , october after this

september, october after this election and it's that caucus of labour members who are going out there day after day for the next five, five and a bit weeks, six weeks, knocking on doors, delivering leaflets for them. somebody like diane abbott is a real icon and he needs to. keir starmer needs to keep them motivated. the other thing i'd say is that you can take a bullish a leaders can take a bullish a leaders can take a bullish attitude to purging the party. we saw what boris johnson did with the remainers as he tried to get brexit over the line. we can see what theresa may did before she called that general election and you can feel really powerful and strong. but on the way down you need your friends. yes. and whatever, whatever victory keir starmer secures, there is there are going to be some bumps and he may not. >> i mean, that's the point, isn't it? because this, decision to withdraw faiza shaheen from chingford and woodford green, i mean, i covered that area because iain duncan smith, the tory candidate, former tory leader, got a lot of abuse. and there was a lot of activist activity in 2019 and things were posted through the letterbox of

his campaign office and graffiti was daubed on the wall. and i think the point is, is that those labour activists who were really behind somebody who was basically a corbynista candidate aren't necessarily going to go out campaigning with the same figour out campaigning with the same rigour if they get somebody who resembles, you know, labour's darren jones. yeah, who's much more of a moderate on the economy , for instance. right. economy, for instance. right. >> i suspect the starmer team won't lose much sleep over, you know, at most a few hundred. corbyn easter's not going door knocking. who previously would i suspect they'd be quite pleased about that. and i actually think what's interesting here is that first of all, as you mentioned, you know, when boris johnson took the whip from ken clarke, equally famous politician, well, it had no impact on the election. people didn't have a problem with that. but actually you've had a real problem in politics under both corbyn and bofis politics under both corbyn and boris johnson, where you've had a lot of candidates selected that just weren't up to the job. they were ideological in a way that wasn't constructive . they that wasn't constructive. they weren't sufficiently vetted properly. you know, they said crazy things. they weren't loyal

to the party. >> can we be confident that that won't be repeated? well, i speak to richard tice in a minute. he's got to select loads of candidates. i think the conservatives have still got another 170 to select labour. i mean , this election has caught mean, this election has caught everyone off guard. we know as journalists that at some point over the next 4 or 5 weeks, we're going to have candidates dropping like flies because somebody, somewhere is going to pour over their social media profile and found find out that they've said some pretty stupid things in the past. >> yeah, i mean, yes, on all sides, but that's why i think actually labour is doing the right thing, probably for the country, but also politically the right thing because it's having this round now. it's being pretty rigorous, pretty ruthless. and i think that's going to set them up in better stead for the final few weeks when they can't drop the candidate. but also after an election. >> i want to talk about the lib dem also. >> i think also though, that laboun >> i think also though, that labour, you know, is much easier to recruit candidates, recruit good candidates because they feel like a party going into government, whereas you've actually got to for many tories, they've got to select in effect, paper candidates can't even keep

michael gove on the slate. >> yeah . so that's a very >> yeah. so that's a very problematic for them. more of a challenge. shall we talk about the liberal democrats. what's sir ed davey doing. he's larking about. he faced accusations today on the campaign trail in somerset where he is making a serious point about mental health for being unserious in this campaign. we've had the lake windermere thing riding bikes down hills, slip and slides. >> theo, he just needs attention. he's just desperate for attention. and we see this. we see this . we've seen this in we see this. we've seen this in recent years, ever since 2010. you know, going into nick clegg suffering that huge, huge defeat when he was leader of the liberal democrats in 2015. and you see the squeeze because we have more of a presidential style politics now. and voters are not stupid. they worked out that either one of two men is going to be prime minister. it's either going to be keir starmer or rishi sunak, and that puts the squeeze on. interestingly, i don't think it's lib dems. so, so interesting to watch. just on the labour question, i think it's the greens. they launched their campaign today and i think are they going to become a sort

of a way for labour core labour vote. labour supporters, voters to vent their frustration. watch out to what happens with greens in the astonishing polling today, benjamin suggesting that the greens are ahead of tories in the under 50, according to yougov. >> that's nuts . i mean, that's >> that's nuts. i mean, that's a threat to the labour vote, isn't it? there's no doubt about it. you've got george galloway, you've got the greens, you've got the potential for independent candidates like jeremy corbyn sucking up votes on the left. >> yeah, i mean i think, you know, the gaza issue has been a big push of people towards the green party. and i don't know whether that will last, but certainly it's going to be a problem at this election, i think in terms of the lib dems, theois think in terms of the lib dems, theo is absolutely right that they just need attention, which is rather odd because they probably will be the story of this election. they may well gain 1520 seats. they may well be the party that takes out some of the cabinet ministers, like jeremy hunt. and i think the fact is that, you know, the lib dems, if you look at the polling, when they do well, they do well. when people don't know what they stand for, when they can just be the local candidate and people project onto them

what they would like. so the idea that we're seeing the lib dem leader, who i think only 13% of people know who the lib dem leader is in the first place, but that it's not uncontroversial. politics on divisive policies is probably an ideal scenario for them. >> can i say something a bit controversial? although, to be fair, nigel said it on this show. is this just a giant bore off between two pretty uncharismatic matic personality free zones ? free zones? >> i think the main event of the yearis >> i think the main event of the year is going to be biden versus trump. and if you if you win before the election was called and i was just speaking to friends in whitehall, especially working across whitehall in different departments, they see the big hop being truss to sunak in terms of going from somebody who's quite out there to somebody sensible , and now we're somebody sensible, and now we're going from somebody sensible. if labour win in rishi sunak to somebody more just as sensible in keir starmer, and that's how the whitehall machine would view it as, as the tories are arguing more of a security risk. >> i mean, benjamin actually in this kind of man in white shirt

versus man in white shirt, you know, not really big personalities like johnson and farage and others when you're going head to head like that and you are making it a very presidential blue versus red. if sunak can land this point that because of his association with jeremy corbyn and because of lammy statements on trump and all the rest of it, that he might be sensible but he isn't safe, maybe sooner does manage to control the narrative in that regard. okay, they're both a bit boring, but stick with what you know because actually inflation's come down and this bloke used to be an investment banker and keir starmer were never expected to be in this position did he. he thought it was going to be a neil kinnock for the next ten years i think. >> yeah i mean i think it's an irony all this sunak is trying to present himself as the safe choice. and yet he comes on the back of years of utter chaos that pretty much everyone agrees felt anything but safe government. and meanwhile starmer is trying to say that he's the moderate. he's not the lefty, but he only got there by being part of an incredibly

radical and left wing labour party. so they're both trying to make arguments that are the reverse of how they got their jobs. but what i would say is that i suspect the fact they're both boring isn't their biggest problem, because people are really tired of the noise, of politics, of the characters, of people like boris johnson, who some fell in love with and fell out of love with. and i actually think that keir starmer is the luckiest man in politics because he is boring and people are willing to accept that. and the only person more boring than him is probably rishi sunak. >> agree with that, theo, very briefly, i think i think keir starmer, if people are bored of politics and they want less politics, keir starmer has cottoned on to this, hasn't he? >> and he said i want a politics that treads more lightly on people's lives. so i think there's yeah, i think there's a he recognises that people kind of had enough and if they want to switch off, well, i'll be the safe, safe option to switch off to. you can leave if you like. you can leave the telly on and it's just going to just play in the background and it's not going to offend anyone. and he's starmer is well well attuned to that. >> theo usherwood benjamin butterworth, great debate. thank

you very much indeed, gentlemen, for joining me in the studio forjoining me in the studio this evening. well, coming up next, i'm going to be speaking to reform richard tice about migrant tax plan. don't go

welcome back to farage with me . welcome back to farage with me. camilla tominey. i'm going to speak to richard tice in just a moment. he's in the studio sitting next to me about reforms planned for a migrant tax. but first of all, let's go over what

you thought when i asked you the question. who's winning the campaign so far? steve says rishi has talked more sense than any others. interesting. karen ann says nigel and richard are rocking the campaign trail like a breath of fresh air. mr tice, you'll be delighted to hear that . another viewer says labour are performing very well, although isn't hard when they are against the tories. might be a good point. nikki says the conservatives have already won. labour are tearing themselves apart . better the devil you apart. better the devil you know. i think that might be wishful thinking. nikki when you look at the polls. but do you know what a week's a long time in a in politics. so a month's even longer. another viewer says of the lib dems. ed seems to be having a great time. indeed he does on his slip and slide. right? well let's get stuck into reform's policy announcement today on an immigration tax. i know we've got richard in the studio, but let's hear him as he launched it earlier today. >> the british economy, our great economy. it has a deadly deadly vie addiction. that's the harsh truth. it's the drug of

cheap overseas labour and the cure is an employer. immigration tax. so what we need to do is we need to incentivise business to say actually , if you want to say actually, if you want to employ people from overseas, that's fine , but you've got to that's fine, but you've got to pay a that's fine, but you've got to pay a price for it. >> well, the man himself joins me now in the westminster studio. nice to see you, richard. good to see you, too. the hours aren't we? you and me? >> absolutely. it's got to be done. we're on the campaign trail. it's great fun. >> make hay while the sun shines. a little bit of sun. >> a little bit of rain. right. but this was i mean, this was a really important announcement. and you might say it's a surprise to be thinking of something where you actually need to raise tax. yes, but it's really important that as you saw from the clip there, the truth is that the business community have become addicted to cheap overseas labour, like a drug and there's no contribution. it's unfair on british workers because the cost of housing, the

cost of our infrastructure, which we've all paid for over as taxpayers for decades. and yet what actually mass immigration, it's basic supply and demand. it depresses wages. it suppresses wages for british people. and that's what we're seeing. and that's what we're seeing. and that's the reason why we've had almost zero real wage growth for 15 years. and while we're in the longest recession per person, which is what really matters over the last two years because of mass immigration, there is a direct link. and yet business don't need to pay for training. for example , and all of these for example, and all of these things. so we're saying to business, we're saying, look, it's the choice is yours. but you have to recognise that part of your responsibility to our community and our society is to train up and progress and pay the right wage for british workers. let's delve a bit more into some of the detail, because there's a few aspects to this policy that aren't clear to me. >> so i do think that you're open to the attack line, that you're now taxing business more, not less. and you have been banging on about bringing corporation tax down. so that seems slightly counterintuitive

to me. i mean, you're actually taxing businesses more now. that's the proposal. >> but that's a proposal. and if business didn't change their current behaviour , then that current behaviour, then that would generate additional about over an electoral cycle about 20 billion. but that would then be invested in apprenticeships and training for young people. but businesses have the choice. so we're saying to business we think that you should do more for young british people who are currently trapped on that cycle of do i work? >> don't i work on benefit businesses that put adverts in where they need to, in recruitment agencies and the local press and all the rest of it, and they can't get the british workers because they don't want to do certain kinds of jobs. >> i don't accept that because the reality is we know it worked in the 80s and 90s before mass immigration. what's happened is the businesses have got away with paying lower wages. and it's very simple, basic economics. if you can't find the laboun economics. if you can't find the labour, you've either got to offer a higher price or you invest in capital equipment to improve the productivity, to replace the labour. that's what's happened for 200 years until mass immigration came in

the last 20, 25 years, businesses more tax on those migrant workers, then you could arguably say that they'll have less money to pay on wages in general, to employ british workers. now, what history shows is actually, if they can't afford it, they'll invest in capital equipment, they'll improve productivity. we've got a productivity crisis and all the experts are puzzling, scratching their noses, saying how does this work? >> how do you judge how you identify by the work of being a migrant? are you saying that they non—british passport? yeah, but do you understand? do you realise that 8 million people in the uk don't have a british passport? well there's about there's about 4.4 million foreign nationals in work according to the ons. >> so that's i know, but there's a, there's quite a surprisingly large proportion of working adults in this country that don't actually have a passport because they don't travel. >> so how would you deal with those? >> that's that's what we're looking at. it's for business to come back and say, have you looked at this proposal? >> why is it for business to come back and give the details? >> because because that's what we put forward a proposal and

the business say we understand what you're trying to do. it does work here. it does work here, but it doesn't work there. we're saying for example, right in there would be an exemption for health care, of course, and social care because that's sensible. >> but equally things have got a huge number of absolutely. >> and that's great. so that's why we've got that exemption and also an exemption for small businesses. >> five people and you say five people. and below i mean most businesses, one of the employers employees is usually the director. maybe there's also the secretary. so that takes two out. you're not talking about small businesses really. you're talking about micro businesses being exempt. but that's also aren't. that's how ghosts hang on a minute though. you're disincentivizing people to grow their businesses beyond five with more migrant workers . with more migrant workers. >> no, no, it's completely the opposite. we're incentivising people to be ambitious, to be entrepreneurs, saying, you've asked me a question. let me answer foreign workers. >> then we're going to tax you more so people will think, my goodness me, right? let's just keep our employee count down and therefore you're not growing the business. in fact, you're doing the complete opposite. they've got a choice. >> and that's a great thing. that's how markets work. you have a choice. do you want to

pay have a choice. do you want to pay more. because there's a brilliant person over there that i want to pay, in which case i'll pay a bit more. or actually i'll pay a bit more. or actually i want to employ british workers, young people, train them up, get some loyalty, grow them up, get some loyalty, grow the business that way. that's how it used to work. >> say a business has five migrant workers and a sixth comes in. are you taxing the business on the basis of all of those workers? six of them, or just the extra one? >> it'd be just the extra one, right? >> let's bring rocco forte, sir rocco forte to give him his precise name. who's based in rome? he's the chairman of rocco forte hotels, where he's got a hotel or two, and he joins us now. sir rocco, really intrigued to hear your reaction to this story. indeed, this proposal , story. indeed, this proposal, because i know i've interviewed you many times in the past. because i know i've interviewed you many times in the past . you you many times in the past. you know, you've got a large foreign workforce. there's a lot of people working in hospitality in the uk who don't have a british passport. rocco >> yes, indeed. and i like, of course, a lot of , what reforms course, a lot of, what reforms approach is to dealing with the

economy and the problems of this country. but i think this is the most crazy thing i've ever heard. and it's nothing to do. it's nothing to do with businesses . it's government. is businesses. it's government. is government not controlling immigration. and clearly it's a it's a policy of the current government to allow 2.5 million people to come into this country , over the last two years when they have complete control of their borders, they can do anything. we can do anything we like with our borders, and we can exclude people from coming here. immigration in itself is not a bad thing. it's the right kind of immigration that we want, not the wrong kind. and what we've seen in the last two years completely the wrong kind of immigration, 2.5 million people coming in and a million leaving the country as well. and they're leaving because a lot of them are leaving because conditions this country are not very attractive to the moment because of government policy. and the, the job, the, the job vacancies have not improved with

all these people that have come in in my, in my i have two hotels in the uk, browns in london and the balmoral in edinburgh, browns in london. 60% of the people who work there are not english. they don't have engush not english. they don't have english passports, they're all people who stayed after brexit and have pre—settled or settled status. so am i going to be taxed for employing for employing those people in edinburgh? it's, 40% of the workforce is in is. edinburgh? it's, 40% of the workforce is in is . british 60, workforce is in is. british 60, yeah. 40% is british. 66, 60. 60. no. sorry 47. i know what you're saying. >> 40% is british and 60 isn't. >> 40% is british and 60 isn't. >> yes. >> yes. >> these these i have very good training schemes, and development schemes. i go to all the english, hotels , schools and the english, hotels, schools and training colleges. we advertise

for labour. we employ the best people to do the jobs out . the people to do the jobs out. the wages we pay are well above with minimum wages and not wages, you know, on the breadline and people, people who are foreign workers we employ are living in this country and have to afford to be able to live in this country. so we're paying very good wages. okay. so let me put all this to richard scirocco. >> let me put this to richard, because you basically lambasted this as a crazy idea . and you've this as a crazy idea. and you've made, i think, the pretty valid point that why you penalise businesses when it's a governmental responsibility to control migration and to make sure that we employ import skilled workers, not unskilled . skilled workers, not unskilled. i mean, you would be saddling sir rocco forte, who's somebody who has flirted with the idea, by the way, of switching allegiance from the tories, who he was once a donor for, to reform . you'd be taxing him to reform. you'd be taxing him to the hilt. >> well, at the two points that rocco quite rightly makes there. the first is that on government

immigration policy, yes, we've got mass immigration over the last couple of years, which is a complete disaster. and it's been too low skill. so i agree with him on that . but the other point him on that. but the other point is, look, we've got over 9 million economically inactive people in the united kingdom, and we've got to get those people back into work. we've got to train up and skill up and incentivise and motivate our own people. so what we're doing is giving businesses the choice. if the business wants to continue employing , the business wants to continue employing, you the business wants to continue employing , you know, wants to employing, you know, wants to employing, you know, wants to employ people, that it's the right people, whether it's in hospitality or whatever, then then that's their choice. but there is a there has to be a cost. there's a recognition of a cost. there's a recognition of a cost of bringing people from overseas to the uk. and it does , overseas to the uk. and it does, without question, have a depressing effect on local wages. and that's what history shows. so you know, i understand rocco's point there, but the reality is the current system is failing everybody. so rocco briefly, is this now going to affect the way you cast your vote on july the 4th, i haven't

decided how i'm going to cast my vote on on july the 4th, but you talk about productivity. productivity is just as bad, in continental europe as it is in the uk. the worst level of productivity is found in government departments, much worse than anything in industry that's got nothing to do with foreign workers. and in europe, it's nothing to do. it's to do with restrictions on, it's restrictions on businesses and the way businesses are , are the way businesses are, are controlled. and also it's to do with the welfare system and, and the, the tax that you pay the marginal tax you pay, if you go back into work, there's also a post, covid syndrome where people have decided that perhaps they don't want to work after all. and so i don't think it's a i don't go out to india to recruit people to come and work for my business. i'm not i'm not actively involved in recruiting people from overseas. i'm employing people who apply to me. in, in this country. and i'm

taking the best people to do the jobs. it's a service industry. you can't invest in machinery to employ less people actually need more people to give better service. it's about the number of people you have on on the job and luxury hotels. you've got to employ more people. i'm not going to put in machinery to serve richard tice. he wouldn't come in to my, my hotels if i did. >> perish the thought. sir. rocco forte and richard tice, thank you very much indeed for joining me this evening. well, coming up next, we're going to be talking about why the tories aren't moving the polling dial rishi sunak acts working hard. look at him there. he's standing in front of a digger talking about net zero, the economy, tax and partygate. and yet polls aren't moving. we're going to analyse why that is in

welcome back to farage with me. camilla tominey. can i just caveat the next two chats? because something quite weird has happened in the booking process . i'm actually going to process. i'm actually going to be speaking to two different scarlett mccgwire. so we're going to have a chat with scarlett mccgwire one about polling, because there's been some interesting polling since the campaign started. and then in just a moment, i'm going to be discussing labour with a different scarlett mccgwire. so don't be confused. i'm not naming one two guests with one name. they're actually both called scarlett mccgwire. who knew? it must be a gb news first. so just to run you through the latest polling,

we've got savanta saying that labour are 71 percentage points ahead of the tories. scarlett mccgwire, who represents jl partners, has actually come out with a poll suggesting that they're just 12 points ahead. so we'll discuss that in just a moment. we've also got some personal polling starmer's considered more honest, trustworthy, genuine , strong, trustworthy, genuine, strong, likeable and intelligent. sunak is apparently seen as more arrogant and dangerous. starmer is ahead on questions such as who is more likely to repay you after borrowing money and win? i'm a celeb? for what it's worth, starmer is also ahead on who would you prefer to change a tire? would we call on starmer or sunak to perform that function? i'm not so sure . so as function? i'm not so sure. so as explained, joining us now is scarlett mccgwire one director at jl partners, scarlett lovely. and i know you you know the other scarlett. >> yeah we were just at dinner. >> yeah we were just at dinner. >> that's very cosy, wonderful. so look, how did you come up with that jl partners poll which suggested that labour were just 12 points ahead? i mean, that's

staggering because some of the other polling, this is why polling confuses me. some of the other polling has put labour at 27 points ahead. that's a massive gulf and gap. yes, absolutely. >> so we're at the opposite end of that. you're quite rightly said we're at 12 points. it's important to say we've been using the same methods as we've consistently used over the last three months. we're now going to be updating that weekly. now that the campaign has started, we do something quite different to yougov, and that's part of the reason why we get quite a different answer. so whereas yougov leave don't know. so people who tell pollsters at the moment they don't currently know how they vote. yougov leaves them be at the moment and says that's fine. what we do is we try and work out how they will likely break. so who will return to the conservatives, who will break for labour, and who will remain, you know, not voting at the time of an election that tends to squeeze things in the conservatives favour because there are more conservative, don't knows for them to win back. and actually we did see in the underlying data. so not just that 12 point lead that rishi sunak was starting to be seen more favourably by conservative 2019 voters, and that he was

increasing his lead with the over 65, now , increasing his over 65, now, increasing his lead with the over 65 is a very important, not just because it's his base, but because they're much more likely to turn out and vote than younger voters, so their votes will count for more. >> but is that why we've had this kind of over 65 offering, you know, talking about quadruple locks on pensions, talking about bring back national service, not a great appeal to the 18 to 24 year olds. maybe the tories think they've lost them already. >> it looks to me like the tories are conducting a very defensive strategy. so at the moment they're holding on to less than 50% of their base from 2019. of the people who voted for them, that is obviously not a great place to be in when you're fighting an election campaign. so what i think they're trying to is to shore up that base to think, okay, we're not going to get back the people who have switched from conservative to labour, we're very unlikely to win over people who voted labour last time. so what we need to do is to focus on those who've switched to reform and those who are currently saying don't know. those voters tend to be older. they tend to be more socially right wing, and they're fans of the quadruple pension lock and they're fans of the national

service. >> i see that the farage factor may have resulted in reform going down from 11% to 9. >> yes. so this is a trend that we're starting to pick up. actually, most pollsters are showing this at the moment that there is a dip in reform. now we'll see how this plays out over the next couple of weeks. but i do think it looks like reform may have peaked. i think it could have been quite a different story had nigel farage made a different announcement a few days ago. but as it stands, i think it looks like reform are going to suffer, especially as the question is going to increasingly become a choice between rishi sunak and keir starmer. and now, if you are one of those voters that have switched from the conservative to reform, they are disproportionately conservative voters. and i think a few of them will probably think, okay, looking at the choice, the false choice between rishi sunak and keir starmer, i'm going to back rishi sunak after all. >> but when you talk about these don't knows, the so—called undecideds and maybe we can call them the disgruntled, the assumption seems to be that they will go back to the tories. is there evidence that some of them, a lot of them, i don't know whether it's a majority or minority, are considering going with labour, like in a kind of

blair 1997 way. >> i think some of these undecided voters will end up breaking for labour in one way, is one of the biggest sort of known unknowns that i think a lot of pollsters are trying to get their head around at the moment is how many might stay at home and not vote at all. so one of the biggest questions we're trying to look at coming up to this election is how to predict turnout, how to work out who's going to come and vote, how to work out which voters who voted before, who normally vote in elections might not come out and vote. and that will change your answer as well. >> and then literally in 10s scarlet, the greens polling ahead of the tories in the under 50 bracket. >> yes. well, i mean, i think this is because the conservatives are doing atrociously with the under 50. so currently less than 1 in 10 people or around 1 in 10, depending where you look under 50, say they're going to vote conservative. i think it's more a sign of that than the greens doing especially well, hence why they're targeting the oldies. they want to shore up the oldies to make sure they come out, because they think not many other people will scarlett mccgwire scarlett mccgwire one, thank you very much. >> in just a moment, we're going to be speaking to scarlett mccgwire two, who was a former adviser to tony blair and gordon brown, because we want

take on what's within labouris within labour is labour eating itself to

welcome back to farage with me. camilla tominey second scarlett mccgwire joins me in the studio now. former labour party adviser to both gordon brown and tony blair. now, scarlet, the diane abbott situation. let's just summarise it as this. she's vowing to stand in hackney north. we still don't know whether she's going to stand for laboun whether she's going to stand for labour, having had the whip removed and then restored or as an independent. she's basically saying i'm going to stand come what may. we've got starmer saying, oh, we're still deciding what's going on, and we've got his deputy, angela rayner, saying, oh, i think she should be allowed to stand alone with, along with a load of other tory mps, including jess phillips and all the rest of it. this is a bit of a mess, isn't it? yeah, it is a mess. it's been really, really badly done because

actually it should have been. they've had months to do it. yes. and people feel very, very strongly that diane abbott needs to be recognised as what she is. i mean, you you cannot have keir starmer saying, you know, she was a amazing trailblazer, which he says quite rightly. and then say, i don't know whether she's going to stand or not. so the national executive committee will decide and all of this noise that's going on is to try and persuade the national executive committee one way or the other. i think that actually it is such a mess that that the national executive committee do understand that if they stop her from standing, it will be very, very, very bad. and i think , i very, very bad. and i think, i don't know, i don't know anything of war going on with starmer saying, no, i need to appear moderate. i've got to purge the party of the corbynistas and an argument that he's personally having with the

executive because the executive is saying, i'm sorry, this is backfiring on you badly. and now , “0, backfiring on you badly. and now , no, everyone's talking about your links to corbyn now because they're reminded of it by diane abbott herself. and nobody's talking about your plan for the nhs, your plan for the economy or anything else . well, i mean, or anything else. well, i mean, that's why this has got to be got over with. and we've just got over with. and we've just got to have diane come back in as a candidate fighting, fighting for the labour party and, and, and, and of course, the last thing we want is to have an argument about diane abbott instead of, as you say, actually talking about what would happen when labour got if labour gets into government, you've got a problem with party unity on the right, you've got a problem with party unity on the left. i mean, does broadchurch politics work ? this is going to politics work? this is going to be a perennial problem for starmer, isn't it? if he wins power, there's lots of different chatter going on in westminster about the size of the majority, and if it's a small one, he's going to have to really pay

nofice going to have to really pay notice of the harder left elements within labour. if it's a bigger majority, then maybe he can just do his own thing . well, can just do his own thing. well, i mean, i think it's really important to have a broad church because because actually labour and frankly, the tories have always had internal arguments and i think they're very, very healthy that you say, you know, i mean, one of the obvious is, is about university fees is should it have been a graduate tax or a fee? i mean, i think labour went the wrong way, but actually there was an argument. i think you've got to be allowed to have debates within parties. i think it's a shame when it's just factional and it's not people saying, well, what is the best way? i mean, i think we need more pragmatism , but but i, need more pragmatism, but but i, i'm not worried. i mean, i frankly, the left of the party, i mean, i, i'm not i don't think they're a danger. they want labourin they're a danger. they want labour in they want everybody in. labour is desperate for is a labour government so that you

can make a difference. look, i mean, you can have, as jeremy corbyn pointed out, you can have incredibly socialist policies. right? but if you don't get in, you don't actually improve life for anybody . although briefly, for anybody. although briefly, really briefly, because we'll bnngin really briefly, because we'll bring in tom to tell us what's on state of the nation in just a moment. blair never purged. no. he was cleverer than this. i think purging is completely unnecessary . i think i think unnecessary. i think i think that what you do is, is, is you accept broad churches and then you have the debates by the way, how influential do you think tony blair is on starmer's administration, it's sort of yes and no . i think they talk to and no. i think they talk to him. they talk to him quite a lot. but i mean, what we can't do is, is, is to fight the last war because we've got a very different one. so you've got peter mandelson quite close there. now you've got the tony blair institute sort of coming out with policies that seem to be adopted. i mean, do you think blair could have a role in the writing of the manifesto, even if it's a few stages removed , i if it's a few stages removed, i don't think so. i mean, i think the manifesto is most written by

now. yes. which is i mean, because whenever you ask labour for any of its plans, they say we don't know because we haven't written the manifesto, but i think that's writing it for weeks. i think that's quite right. but i mean, obviously everybody many people thought that might be a may election. so labour was ready for may. okay. >> tom harwood on that point, you know , you and i know lots of you know, you and i know lots of think tanks in westminster. >> lots of them have, you know, 20 people who work for them. the tony blair institute has over 100 getting nearer to the 200 mark. lots of these people have been taken on in the last few months and indeed the last year. many expect to be special advisers within the next government. it might be less that they write the manifesto and more that they staff the next government. very interesting stuff there. but on the programme coming up at state of the nation, we're going to be exploring two attack lines that have been developed between the labour party and the tory party. one side is saying that there are 70 billion worth of unfunded spending commitments. the other side is saying there are almost £200, £200 billion of unfunded

spending commitments. do you know what they're both telling porkies? and we've got the we've got the facts to prove it. so we'll be diving into those numbers. >> looking forward to that. stay tuned for state of the nation. you're going to find me here on sunday. but first here's the weather with mark wilson . weather with mark wilson. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello mixed fortunes in our weather as we head through friday. best of the dry fine weather towards the north and the west, but more cloud across eastern england with some showers and still feeling warm though in that sunshine we look at the pressure pattern . then at the pressure pattern. then you can see this area of high pressure it's trying to build in across the uk. so settling things down towards the north and the west, but further east close to that area of low pressure, more cloud and some rain here. so through thursday and evening and overnight we do hang on to more cloud down the eastern parts of england. like i said, with some further showery outbreaks of rain spreading their way southwards and some quite brisk winds here once again further towards the north

and the west, though drier, clearer and not totally too cold overnight as we hang on to still that breeze. so temperatures not dropping below 10 to 12 degrees in towns and cities as we start friday morning. then we get off to a pretty fine start across parts of wales and southwest england. some cloud around to start the morning, but also some sunshine. but then we run into that thicker cloud across central and eastern parts of england, with some showery outbreaks of rain affecting lincolnshire, east anglia, southeast england through the morning. so quite a wet start to the day here, but a fine picture across northern ireland. much of northern england and scotland. lots of sunshine to start the day, just a few showers across the very far north and the west of scotland and it's more of the same really, as we head through the rest of friday. always the thickest of the clouds across central and eastern parts of england, with further showery outbreaks of rain spreading the way southwards, particularly across east anglia and the south—east of england. so by the afternoon some pretty heavy showers possible across the southeast, with some thunder possible too. here but elsewhere, though the further north and the west you go generally more in the west sunshine, slightly lighter winds as well. so in that sunshine feeling pleasantly warm, we're

looking at highs of 17 to 20 degrees. there which is slightly above where we should be for this time of the year. and it's more of the same as we head into saturday. high pressure still dominating across most of the country. still a few showers across the southeast, but elsewhere. largely dry. some cloud around at times, but that cloud around at times, but that cloud will to break give some spells of sunshine, so staying largely settled as we head into sunday. into the start of next week, with some sunshine, temperatures rising 23 degrees there possible in the south, a brighter outlook with boxt solar for sponsors of weather on

>> and it'd be interesting because i expect people will be going over their political affiliations with a fine tooth comb . comb. >> okay. now, look, if you are just watching us on telly or onune just watching us on telly or online now, that is the president's motorcade, former president's motorcade, former president's motorcade, former president's motorcade pulling away . it's 11 president's motorcade pulling away. it's 11 pm. huge breaking news tonight. former us president donald trump has been found guilty on all 34 counts in his hush money trial. he was accused of falsifying business

documents to cover up a hush money, $130,000 payment to adult film star stormy daniels . the film star stormy daniels. the jury film star stormy daniels. the jury of 12 new york residents returned the verdict about one hour ago, just before justice juan merchan was set to release the group after a full day of deliberations. so the unprecedented conviction marks the end of the six week long trial in manhattan . donald trump trial in manhattan. donald trump has made history now after becoming the first criminally convicted former us president. we are going to be hearing this hour from nigel farage, a close confidant of the former president, a man who has already said that this is a ridiculous verdict and that trump will win. but here is the former president outside that courthouse . outside that courthouse. >> this was a rigged, disgraced trial. but the real verdict is going to be november 5th by the

people and they know what happened here. and everybody knows what happened here. you have a soros backed d.a. knows what happened here. you have a soros backed da. and a whole thing. we didn't do a thing wrong . i'm a very innocent thing wrong. i'm a very innocent man. and it's okay. i'm fighting for our country. i'm fighting for our country. i'm fighting for our country. i'm fighting for our constitution in. >> well, i'm joined now by jennifer ewing, who is from republican overseas. jennifer thank you very, very much. is trump right? this was rigged. >> i mean there's it's definitely politicised. >> absolutely. you've got a district attorney who ran on getting trump. you have a judge whose daughter is one of the biggest democratic fundraiser and, you know, has raised millions and millions of dollars for democrats and basically sells merchandise with trump behind bars . behind bars. >> and then yesterday we heard, you know, sort of later in the evening was the instructions

that had been given to the jury was telling them that this mystery felony that we waited, what, six weeks to find out what it was , was basically a pick it was, was basically a pick your felony. they had a choice of three, and the 12 jurors did not need to agree on what felony that was. so there's been a lot of unusual things about this, andifs of unusual things about this, and it's disappointing for sure, it will give alvin bragg what what? >> yeah. what do you make of the district attorney alvin bragg here? because they're trying to claim that this isn't politically motivated , but many politically motivated, but many people point to alvin bragg, and they say, well, that very much shows that it is. >> yeah. i don't i don't know who these people are. i think anybody, regardless of your political leanings , can see that political leanings, can see that this, was politically motivated and several people had turned down this for case years thinking there's nothing to see here. it's a bookkeeping error, right? why did we only have the revival of this case, turn up after donald trump decided he

was going to run for election. so let's not forget, the department of justice was weaponized against not a former president, but but the top running mate of president biden . running mate of president biden. >> yeah. okay. what does this mean now, though? do you think americans are going to be more or less likely to vote for him as a result of this ? guilty of as a result of this? guilty of all 34 charges? well, conceivably , i mean, absolute conceivably, i mean, absolute worst case scenario. i will stress that this is unlikely, but could face 20 odd years in prison for this. there's the classified documents case up to 450 years in prison. so that is a that is a life changer. the federal election interference case up to 55 years, the georgia racketeering case, 67.5 years. i mean, you know, if this was supposedly going to be the weakest of the cases against president trump, are we looking at a man who might die behind bars , no, i don't think so. and bars, no, i don't think so. and don't forget that this is the only one that was going to take place before november 5th. the other ones and you mentioned the

documents case in miami that was postponed indefinitely because of some of the evidence, so that that we don't even have a date for that one. and that's what a lot of people thought was the strongest one. but going back to this one, you know, will it change voters mind? actually, pbs, i believe, is pbs and npr. so both very left leaning organisations , we would say, did organisations, we would say, did a poll in the last couple of days and asked people would a conviction in the new york child change the way you voted in? 67% of the people said, no , look, of the people said, no, look, i'm so i'm just going to ask i'm just going to ask you to just pause for a second, please, jennhen pause for a second, please, jennifer, if that's okay. >> but please do stay where you are. so for you in there, republicans overseas, i am now joined by donald trump's former adviser, seb gorka saib . thank adviser, seb gorka saib. thank you very much for coming on to gb news here. all right. look, you were in the white house with trump. you you know, this guy. what's going to be happening now? what's going to be going through his mind? >> well, everything he said for

the last five months during this kangaroo court of a show trial, as he said, this isn't about him. >> this is about everybody who wants america back from the left wing crazies who've opened our borders, have their kids chanting from the to river the sea in pro—hamas demonstrations who've let 8 million illegals into the country, seen record inflation, record increases in the price of energy and petrol . the price of energy and petrol. so look, this man is undaunted. his challenger for the presidency, vivek ramaswamy, who i think will be in his next cabinet, god willing, said it correctly 48 hours ago. whether he's found guilty or innocent will redound to his chances. he's already defeating the incumbent , joe biden, in all the incumbent, joe biden, in all the battleground states. if he were found innocent, then he would have been vindicated. if he's found guilty, as he were today, by this travesty of a decision . by this travesty of a decision. the people who say, you know what that's rigged are going to support him even more. he now

has the majority of the hispanic vote in america. he now has upwards of 28% of the black vote. if those turn into actual propensities on election day , propensities on election day, the democrats are stuffed. they're dead. >> okay , now just enlighten us >> okay, now just enlighten us over here on this side of the pond as to exactly why you say this is a kangaroo court , why? this is a kangaroo court, why? >> where to begin? how many hours do you have? so let's start with the fact that the judge, juan beltran, illegally, according to the state regulations of new york, donated to the joe biden campaign judges aren't allowed to donate to campaigns. not only that, he donated to an anti—trump super pac as well . donated to an anti—trump super pac as well. his donated to an anti—trump super pac as well . his daughter, lara pac as well. his daughter, lara merkin, has made $93 million off the democrats since the trial began and off her daddy's case number one. number two, we have this outre , bizarre, perverse this outre, bizarre, perverse jury this outre, bizarre, perverse

jury instructions from the judge. two days ago, he said, you know that thing about 12 of you know that thing about 12 of you have to agree on the guilty thing. no, don't worry about that. for the first time in history, for a felony trial, if four of you agree on one of them and not the rest, and then another four of you agree on another four of you agree on another of the charges , that's another of the charges, that's good for me. i'll take that as a unanimous verdict . it is unanimous verdict. it is stalinesque. it's kafka. it's out of control. you don't have that option to say. you can pick and choose like you're on the buffet line at a smorgasbord. no 12 have to say he's guilty or he's innocent . he's innocent. >> do you think they'll see the inside of a prison cell if he if he does, the democrats are more stupid than i ever thought. >> look, he's a free man today. he just about ten minutes ago, left the, the court in his secret service motorcade back to his home. they said the

sentencing will be in july, of course, right before the republican convention, because none of this is political at all. look if they put him in prison, he's just going to stroll into the white house a few months later because the democrats are cretins. they're evil sons of but they're also cretins because they haven't read the constitution . the read the constitution. the constitution is very explicit. there's only three requirements to be president. you have to be over 35. you have to be a natural born citizen and you have to be resident in the united states for the 14 years pnor united states for the 14 years prior to the election. doesn't say anything about being a convicted criminal. that's how dumb the democrats are. >> okay. all right . now, just >> okay. all right. now, just purely because this show gets replayed , possibly. anyway, in replayed, possibly. anyway, in the early hours of the morning, i want to apologise for some minor bad language there, but i think that emphasises the strength of feeling sad, which, while i've got you and thank you for your time, i know you've not got too long here, but what's the reaction to this going to be like? i mean, there was the

january 6th stuff. i know that a lot of that was massively overplayed, you know, but but there was there were serious aspects to it. oh, we're going to see things like that again here. do you think. >> well, we still don't know who the provocateurs were in the january 6th. so that's a very good question , i think one of my good question, i think one of my callers said it on my national radio show about 30 minutes ago. what we need to do right now, we don't even have to buy anything. get a piece of paper, write in big felt tip trump and stick that on the window of your car. because we are in solidarity with the 45th and god willing, if we do our part , the 47th if we do our part, the 47th president of the united states said , thank you very, very much said, thank you very, very much for your time today , we really for your time today, we really do appreciate it. and no doubt we'll be hearing a little bit more from you over the course of what is going to be a bumper news day. that's sebastian gorka there, who's a former adviser to donald trump in the white house. what i'm going to do. so what

we're witnessing here, by the way, if you are watching us on television, again, i would also just say, if you're listening to us on radio, then do try to get near a television or a laptop and watch this as trump's motorcade is driving through new york. this has been going on for quite a while now. as he leaves that courtroom, he has been found guilty of all 34 charges. what i would like to do is to just read out to you what's on the front of some of our, newspaper front pages, right here in this country. i'm going to start with the daily telegraph trump guilty. and the picture of trump not really looking downcast, just looking down. really, former president is the first to become convicted of a crime after hush money verdict. so that's on the front of the daily telegraph we've got the front of the daily times as well. and these pictures , you well. and these pictures, you know, sometimes you just see, oh, don't worry, when trump gets to his destination, i'll show all of these to you. but some absolutely iconic images that you just know these pictures.

yeah. there it is. look at that. now, that might seem a bit innocuous now, but mark my words, that is a shot that will live forever . trump found guilty live forever. trump found guilty in hush money trial. he's in the courtroom. there he's looking defiantly down the lens like he's a barrel of a gun. defiantly down the lens like he's a barrel of a gun . donald he's a barrel of a gun. donald trump has been convicted of fraud by a new york jury in relation to falsifying business records to conceal a payment made to a porn star during the 2016 campaign for the white house. let's see, shall we? how the daily mirror have reacted to this historic trial verdict . this historic trial verdict. acts president faces trial after jury acts president faces trial after jury convicts him on all 34 counts over hush money trial . counts over hush money trial. there is that picture of him there for added emphasis of him with stormy daniels , the daily with stormy daniels, the daily star. why not? we've come this far. orange man baby is guilty on all counts. you've been tango'd so a variety of different ways in which president trump, former president trump, former president trump, former president trump has been treated there and they've done tango'd in orange writing, i will just

say to you, we're going to hear from nigel farage very shortly. so stay tuned for that. this is the man. let me remind you that he's going to be heading off to campaign with president trump as well. so there is that. suzanne evans still joins me in the studio, political commentator alongside former labour party adviser matthew laza. suzanne, i'll start with you. what do you make of that overview of the front pages there? >> it's such a dramatic front page, isn't it? i mean, i just keep can't get get my head around the fact that this is a former president, the leader of the free world, who's basically been brought down by a stripper. yeah i mean, that is what has happened here. and that is, i think, absolutely historic. >> it shows you the power of the stripper. >> isn't it quite incredible. jul, very interesting actually. the times there take on it is that, yes, he's got a possible penalty of up to four years in prison. but given his age, let's not forget, this is a man who's 77 and lack of previous convictions, and that he's non—violent. he's likely to be spared incarceration by the

judge. but remember what he said when he came out of that courtroom, he had a right pop at the judge. >> yeah, he said it's rigged. >> yeah, he said it's rigged. >> you know, he's i've often thought that trump is his own worst how to win friends and influence people. yeah, he's the exact opposite of that , isn't exact opposite of that, isn't he? he is so often his own worst enemy. and there he does. he comes out, this man, he's got his life in his hands, basically, and he decides to have a pop at him. it's quite extraordinary. >> i thought there'd be more reaction to this, you know. so we are witnessing now live shots from downtown new york. all right. so everyone in new york is aware of the news that their former president has been found guilty of relatively serious offences , quite serious offences, quite serious offences. i thought the streets would be packed full of people, but no. and it wasn't that busy outside the courtroom. matthew, what's your take? the front pages here. trump guilty. >> i mean, the daily star, you know, has got it for me with the orange man. baby is guilty on all counts. you've been tango'd. it's become the sort of political paper of record after the liz truss lettuce, but i

think this is one of those days where people are going to remember where they were when the verdict came through, isn't it? and these front pages are going to be framed on a lot of walls because this is absolutely an incredible moment, not just for the united states , but for for the united states, but for the world. this is the man who was the leader of the free world and who may well be the leader of the free world again. and he's just been convicted on 34 counts. what a difference to us. and the slice of cake , he's been and the slice of cake, he's been brought down by a stripper. our prime minister was brought down by her slice of cake. >> all right, so. so look, what we're looking at now is that the trump motorcade has just stopped. i believe that he will be getting out of that car, so we'll be getting another look at former president donald trump any moment now as the doors to his vehicle are open by the secret service agents who have been flanking him throughout this journey from that courtroom to , his property there in new to, his property there in new york. just to emphasise , if york. just to emphasise, if you're just joining us, yes, donald trump has been found guilty of all 34 charges. any

second now, he will come out of that vehicle. i wonder what he's going to do. i mean, he's obviously going to come out swinging. he has already come out swinging the door has just opened.then out swinging the door has just opened. then that is that is trump walking quite casually, quite slowly , into his property quite slowly, into his property there or down the road? actually, at least it's a seems like a slightly odd thing to do to have him walk for that length of time in the open there. after this verdict, i must say this is quite bizarre what we're looking at here. i think that former president trump, i wonder if he's going to deliver another media. i think he's going to deliver another media statement here. he's waving to crowds. i just wonder if we might be able to see if there is another camera shot a bit closer down. i know martin will be working on that, but it appears there he is. there we go. can we take some audio on this, please? just see what the what the situation feels like on the ground. if we can possibly as trump there, outside trump tower, stopping and waving to the crowd. so that was okay. no statement . he's

was okay. no statement. he's decided that he was just going to go and wave around. i will say that there weren't that many people there, actually. so, you know, he was doing a little bit of a wave, but there weren't that many people there. he has headed up now and will go back into trump tower. so trump has left that courtroom after saying it was a rigged trial. the judge was bent and he is just going to continue to fight it, i believe i'm just trying to figure out if he's actually gone inside now. i think he must have done. but yeah, in fact, there he is , just yeah, in fact, there he is, just walking into trump tower . so, walking into trump tower. so, suzanne, do you think that nigel farage would be wise to still go and campaign for president trump? >> i think he almost certainly will. i mean, he's made it quite clear he's put out on twitter. he thinks that the trial was rigged, you're going to be talking to him very soon. be very interested to hear what he has to say. but yeah, this isn't going this isn't going to put up nigel. nigel loves the cut and thrust of politics. he doesn't shy away from controversy. absolutely not, he clearly thinks trump is innocent, so of course he's going to support

him. yeah, absolutely. >> what do you reckon, matthew? do you think it's a good luck for nigel here? we are going to be hearing from shortly. i think. >> yeah. i mean, i think nigel has to be careful in how much he condemns the court process because americans may feel that it's rigged, but to british eyes, it looks, you know, it looks like justice has been done. >> i'm joined now by journalist spencer critchley. spencer, thank you very much. it's a fast moving picture here. so the news broke about . well, yes, an hour broke about. well, yes, an hour ago now. exactly. former president trump guilty of all 34 counts. okay. this includes hush money payments , fraud, etc. in money payments, fraud, etc. in relation to stormy daniels . he relation to stormy daniels. he has come out straight away, said this is rigged. it's not real. don't believe it. and i'll be fighting this election on november the fifth. and you better vote for me. what's going on? >> well, one way to look at this . despite what former president trump too all predictably claims is as a triumph of what's best about american democracy and about american democracy and about liberal democracy generally, as shared with

britain and much of the modern world, much as trump wants his followers to disbelieve it , the followers to disbelieve it, the fact is that we have a separation of powers for very good reasons, the judicial branch is separate from the executive branch and the legislative branch for very good reasons. and those reasons protect all of us, protect the rights of all of us. and by trying to train people to believe that everything is rigged. and he for some mysterious reason, this person with a well—established reputation over a lifetime as a con man is the only person in the world we can trust, that itself is a direct assault on democracy, so whatever he claims and whatever his most devoted followers desperately want to believe, this is actually a triumph of democracy here, because it's a relevant point. >> you've mentioned his devoted followers. okay and they are absolutely, completely and utterly devoted. some people

have been camping outside that courtroom since day dot, and what we are seeing now is , as what we are seeing now is, as i think some of those followers, outside his residence, do you predict that there might be some trouble afoot here? >> i certainly hope not. we have to assume that there's a fair likelihood of that anytime something happens to trump, or any time he stirs people up. we've already seen terrible violence in this country , violence in this country, including murders, which seems too all clearly to have been inspired by trump, if not directly organised by him, as in the january sixth insurrection at our capitol building. so i know it's something that the fbi and other federal authorities and other federal authorities and state and local authorities take very seriously. and i hope and expect that they're prepared for it . for it. >> right. and what do you make of his chances at this election? people are saying that this is

the best thing that could have happen to him. i mean, tucker carlson says that if he isn't killed before november the 5th, then he actually will walk it . then he actually will walk it. >> yes. and tucker carlson's remarks are another example of this kind of all out verbal assault on democracy, trying to tearit assault on democracy, trying to tear it down by tearing down people's confidence in it. this this utterly irresponsible and truly life threatening lie about the supposed plot against former president trump's life by the fbi puts the lives of fbi and other law enforcement officials in grave danger. it's frankly disgusting . disgusting. >> can i just say one thing, spencer? i am just getting news through to me. this is interesting. donald trump's donation websites are crashing with the volume they cannot handle. i'm. this is this is what i'm getting from several different media reports. i obviously i'm talking to you and i am in a studio here right now, so i will caveat this by saying ihave so i will caveat this by saying i have not myself tried to

access a donald trump, donation website. however, i have no reason to disbelieve it. they are saying that they are crashing. so in terms of actual pubuc crashing. so in terms of actual public support and money, it looks as though this already has been quite a good thing for the former president . former president. >> yeah, certainly among his most devoted people. that's what i would expect. now of course this news is coming from trump world. so it's safe to assume it's at least misleading. if not outright dishonest. and it's also safe to assume that if a trump affiliated website crashes, it could simply be technical incompetence. but i think i'm quite willing to believe that it's true in this case, because we've seen before that any perceived attack on donald trump is seen as an attack on his devoted followers. as i see, and i think really, if people are trying to understand what can look like madness, to rational people, whether they're on the right or the left, it helps to think of trump as a pre—modern figure from feudal times , you know, before the times, you know, before the world was transformed by enlightenment reason and political liberalism. okay, he's

more like a more like a feudal king. and once you've sworn loyalty, there's no going back. >> look, i'm just going to emphasise, i have i have received a message from nigel farage and we will be bringing him up on your screens, hopefully in a matter of moments . so stay tuned everybody, for that. spencer, i have just logged on to a website donald trump's one of donald trump's websites. okay so this is donald j. trump. com on that website it says this breaking news political prisoner. i am a political prisoner. i am a political prisoner. i am a political prisoner . i was just political prisoner. i was just convicted in a rigged political witch hunt trial . i did nothing witch hunt trial. i did nothing wrong. they've raided my home, arrested me, took my mugshot, and now they've just convicted me. crooked joe biden needs to get the message right here, right now that his chances of a second term end today . but for second term end today. but for that to happen, our immediate pushback must be so massive it will go down in history.

pushback must be so massive it will go down in history . we must will go down in history. we must make joe biden regret this forever happening, make joe biden regret this forever happening , spencer, forever happening, spencer, look, thank you very much. i'm sorry we don't have the opportunity to go back to you right now, but can i just say thank you very much for coming on and at such short notice that spencer quraishi there, who's a journalist, this donald trump website now as options to donate, it says never surrender. and a picture of his mug shot. you can donate anything from 3500 to $250. by you can donate anything from 5500 to $250. by the you can donate anything from 3500 to $250. by the way, this is not a plug . but 3500 to $250. by the way, this is not a plug. but forjust before someone decides to investigate me, i am simply reporting something that i think is quite interesting that you can do, that you can do now, on the donald trump website. so, donald, donald trump's team , donald, donald trump's team, matthew, i've already come out. he's a political prisoner. that's the line. >> they will absolutely try and weaponize the conviction , then weaponize the conviction, then they obviously need to try and get the momentum back because the absolute bald facts of 34 convictions, 34 charges being convicted on, are out there. so they'll just be trying to get back the momentum. they'll manage to do that with their own supporters. the keys of those independents and those swing

voters. how will this play? and that's what we'll be looking for over the next 24 hours. >> sources. so just before i go to you on this, nigel farage is ready, and he's joining to you on this, nigel farage is ready, and he'sjoining us to you on this, nigel farage is ready, and he's joining us now, so this is nigel farage. nigel, look, thank you very much. i was not expecting to talk to you about this tonight. maybe we could have dissected question time, but here we are. what do you make of. what do you make of this? i mean, this is landmark. it's groundbreaking. it's trump, it's guilty, and it's all 34 counts. >> yes . it's counts. >> yes. it's enormous. but you know, when you look at the fact that the jury was chosen from a district, that only had 10% republican support, you begin to understand the sheer politicisation of the american judicial system. this is something i railed against, actually, for many, many years, and said to friends , you know, and said to friends, you know, it just it isn't working anymore. you know, 98% of cases in america that go to court result before they go to court in guilty verdicts. result before they go to court in guilty verdicts . everything in guilty verdicts. everything is wrong about american justice. i can give you some breaking news, from team trump , which is

news, from team trump, which is that the trump donation website has crashed in the last half an houn has crashed in the last half an hour. that tells you one awful lot about what this means, because , okay, you're just because, okay, you're just having that conversation about, you know, the middle swing voters , any fair american can voters, any fair american can see that this whole case was concocted from day one. they knew exactly what they were doing . they got this judgement. doing. they got this judgement. and i have to say , i have to say and i have to say, i have to say that i now think i really do genuinely think that trump is now going to win the presidency by a very big margin, because people realise things are rotten in america. >> could you just explain to us, i mean , look, you know, american i mean, look, you know, american politics inside out, really? could you just explain to us exactly why you think this is so rotten? because they have a very different way of doing things over there, don't they, when it comes to their judicial system ? comes to their judicial system? >> well, they do, and they talk about magna carta all the time, but actually they've got it wrong, elected judges, judges

are elected on manifestos, get trump and they get and they're elected, jury juries who are well, they were certainly i mean , this judge told them exactly what they had to do. and they jolly well did it. the absolute politicisation of judiciary from top to bottom in america, it's not working anymore. it needs a really radical president to look at this system and to change it. and, you know , how on earth can and, you know, how on earth can anybody can anybody ? we have a anybody can anybody? we have a judge presiding over their case who openly, publicly says he hates trump and wants to get in the whole thing. patrick you can't believe how rotten this has become. and the left, the modern left in america and parts of it in the uk, and we see it through cancel culture and much else. they are so obsessed with beating their opponents they will sink to any levels to do it. i repeat the point,

will sink to any levels to do it. i repeat the point , fair it. i repeat the point, fair minded americans will look at this and say it's simply wrong. >> do you think he will see the inside of a prison cell? >> i think that's unlikely because there is an appeals process . he will obviously use process. he will obviously use that, and you would have thought, that any judge that wanted to maintain peace and order in america then do it. but i'll be honest with you , i never i'll be honest with you, i never thought on the very odd case that because this had happened , that because this had happened, it might have affected the election, i never thought a jury would unanimously find him guilty on all 34 counts. so i could be wrong. maybe he will go to prison. maybe he'll be a modern day martyr. for all i know . know. >> are you still going to be going out and helping him out in his campaign then, despite this? >> oh good lord, yes. in fact, patrick, i plan to be there today, but because of the uk

general election, just too much else going on. but i will definitely, definitely be there on the 11th of july when this sentencing takes place. and i'll be there with the gb news film crew, and we'll capture every moment of something. i mean, this is one of the biggest stories in history. >> yeah. it is. what's your message to donald trump? you know, you i'm not going to go as far as to say you've got him on speed dial, but you have got a very good relationship with him. i've seen that first hand myself. what are you going to say to him? >> stay strong and he will. he will. he is the most remarkable human being . whatever they throw human being. whatever they throw at this bloke, he is tough. he is resilient. in fact, the worst they behave. and we've been through it all before, haven't we? the russia hoax, the ukraine impeachments and now this, whatever they throw at him in some ways makes him more determined , and makes him feel determined, and makes him feel that he's even more of a figure that he's even more of a figure that has to get america back on

track to being a decent, sensible country. >> you mentioned in the statement that you put out the day after the general election was called, that it's vital for the world that america gets its next choice right ? okay. who are next choice right? okay. who are the big winners from trump's guilty verdict here? now, do you think the warmongers , the think the warmongers, the warmongers, those that want america , those that want america america, those that want america to go to war? >> trump has been a peacemaker. this is what everyone forgets. you know, the abraham accords, crossing the line into north korea, you know, this is not really what they wanted , this really what they wanted, this this sort of neo con attitude that took root 20 years ago is as deeply embedded in the democrats, actually, as it is within the republicans. and they can't bear the thought of trump going around the world negotiating peace deals, they all seem to want the ukraine to war go on for as long as it

possibly can, whereas he wants to try and find some, if it's possible. negotiated settlement . possible. negotiated settlement. so they are big winners and the democrats think they're big winners . but you know something? winners. but you know something? they're going to come out of this as very big losers in my opinion. >> i really appreciate your time this evening. and i know that you've raced home and you come on for us, and i hope that you don't mind. i would just like a couple more, a couple more points with you, if that's okay, because i want to know what you think this means for britain, okay? because, you know, we're looking at live shots here from new york. we've been camped outside that new york courthouse for however long we've just spoken about. you know, very internationalist. look there about what this might mean on the geopolitical stage. but what does this mean for britain? how does this mean for britain? how does our government now have to respond to the fact that president trump has just been found guilty of all 34 counts? >> they're going to find it very awkward , very awkward. but then, awkward, very awkward. but then, to be honest, this government's been pretty arm's length with trump all the way through. interesting that david lammy has been out to meet trump's team .

been out to meet trump's team. maybe labour will take a different view, i don't know. look you know, the most important thing to remember is this america are our key ally. they are our biggest trading partner in the world as a country, as opposed to a trading bloc , and i've just always had bloc, and i've just always had this view that we're living now in a more dangerous world than any points of the cuban missile crisis. and i put it to everyone, whether you like this man's style or you don't, whether you like his outlandishness or you don't, the world will be a safer place if he's back as the 47th president and not not joe biden and the democrats, who frankly , have democrats, who frankly, have been disastrous. and ever since the fall of kabul, been disastrous. and ever since the fall of kabul , the world's the fall of kabul, the world's bullies have seen this as an opportunity to advance. so. so it is in britain's interest that we have a president who is pro britain. biden's not, by the

way, as you know, very much on the side of irish nationalism, a president that can bully the other nato members into actually upping their defence spending and a president as the leader of the free world who people like putin actually fear , yeah. no, putin actually fear, yeah. no, indeed.i putin actually fear, yeah. no, indeed. i also know that you're you're very close with with the wider trump family , this is such wider trump family, this is such b'zz tweeted donald trump junior, piers morgan says this is a sad, shameful, ridiculous day for america to drag a former president who is running for president who is running for president again through criminal courts over something so trivial feels a massive overreach and incredibly divisive and obviously politically partisan action. well, it's interesting, i'm not, i'm not going to ask you to recreate your ding dong out earlier tonight with piers morgan, by the way, but it is interesting because piers morgan fell out with trump, didn't he? really? and for him to say this

is an incredibly divisive and obviously politically partisan action, varne really does lend a lot of weight to what a huge amount of people are saying over there who are in that middle ground, who are maybe predisposed to dislike trump, actually , they can say, well, actually, they can say, well, hang on, look, we can see, we can see straight through it. i'm just not really sure how this ends, nigel, because , you know, ends, nigel, because, you know, we saw what we saw on january 6th. are we going to potentially get a repeat of that on piers morgan, by the way? >> morgan now thinks trump will win. so he's being nice to trump when he thought trump was going to lose he was beastly to him. in newspaper articles , morgan in newspaper articles, morgan believes in nothing absolutely nothing other than the self promotion of morgan, who is now, of course, a youtuber , which and of course, a youtuber, which and i had a very interesting exchange with him this evening, when i did point out, he said, well, you should be ready for the election, nigel. i said, well, unlike you, piers, i have an evening tv show. yours got cancelled anyway, that's by the by. i just couldn't resist saying it.

>> oh, oh , you've been saying >> oh, oh, you've been saying you've been saying on that line for a while. >> are you? >> are you? >> well, i was waiting for the moment, patrick. you know, and of course presented itself. and look , i, i do think there is look, i, i do think there is a genuine worry, about the political divide in america. the sheer hatred that the left have for the conservative movement can provoke an equal. and sometimes more than equal opposite reaction. it is very, very, very worrying indeed . and very, very worrying indeed. and i just hope that trump says to his supporters , you know, for his supporters, you know, for goodness sake, stay within reasonable bounds. whatever happens to me, the worst they do to me, the greater our chance of winning and the polls today have shown that, as i said to you, the donation site has crashed tonight as people are dying to give this man money. >> yeah, indeed. i mean, and he's got to say that especially in light of the fact that some

of the other charges that he's facing are in relation to that. we've got quotes and quotes. insurrection election interference, as well. you know, he's got he's got to play this one very, very carefully. hasn't he. you know, he could get up to 55 years for that 76.5 years for this georgia racketeering case, which , as far as i understand, which, as far as i understand, is one of the more bizarre ones in all of this, as well. look, nigel, can i just say a massive thank you to you for coming on and for giving us so much of your time on what has been an incredibly busy day for you. so, you take care, nigel. we'll chat to you very soon. thank you very much. that's nigel farage there, right. let's just remind ourselves, shall we, of what former president trump said in the immediate aftermath of that unanimous, or i should say, sorry , being guilty on all sorry, being guilty on all counts of those 34 charges. let's go . let's go. >> this was a disgrace . this was >> this was a disgrace. this was a rigged trial by a conflicted judge who was corrupt. it's a figged judge who was corrupt. it's a

rigged trial , a disgrace. they rigged trial, a disgrace. they wouldn't give us a venue change. we were at 5% or 6% in this district . in this area. this was district. in this area. this was a rigged disgrace . awful trial. a rigged disgrace. awful trial. but the real verdict is going to be on november 5th by the people and they know what happened here. and everybody knows what happened here. you have a soros backed d.a. happened here. you have a soros backed da. and a whole thing. we didn't do a thing wrong . i'm we didn't do a thing wrong. i'm a very innocent man and it's okay. i'm fighting for our country. i'm fighting for our constitution . in our whole constitution. in our whole country is being rigged right now . this was country is being rigged right now. this was done by country is being rigged right now . this was done by the country is being rigged right now. this was done by the biden administration . administration. >> well, i welcome into the fray. now the spokesperson for republicans overseas uk , errol republicans overseas uk, errol moorcock. errol, thank you very much. your initial reaction to this. absolutely bombshell verdict. former president trump

guilty on 34 counts. >> well, thank you for having me in this most historical moment. >> i guess the takeaway i have is initially not partisan or political , but is initially not partisan or political, but as an american and it just tells me how much hate one half of this country has for the other half . has for the other half. >> because regardless of who donald trump is and what donald trump has done as president or as a private citizen, everybody with any sort of rationality would realise that these charges are a complete overreach of, of justice. this is a weaponized trial. they're they're they're launching it specifically right before an election. they somehow believe that turning our , our believe that turning our, our candidate into a martyr is an ideal strategy, which is, i believe, going to backfire. personally i'm baffled. i thought there was going to be at least one decent man, woman or other who was going to be on that jury, who was going to stand up for the values in the

country that i grew up in. >> can i just thank you for this? can i just interject because i am getting some breaking news in my ear? as you would imagine, on an event like this? i'm going to i'm going to ask you to pre—empt something for me, if that's all right. look in your crystal ball, errol. we're going to be hearing from the district attorney. so supposedly in the next few minutes, there's a podium at the ready here. what is he going to say? errol >> he's going to say i got him. he's going to say that i ran on targeted persecution of a citizen. and i got him, and i got him for you. my voters, the people here who did this. and he's going to be right. he did achieve what he what he promised he would do. and you know, history is never going to forgive him for that. there's ramifications to all behaviour. and this one is going to cross a line. but this is a moment of jubilance and celebration for the corrupt cabal of, of, of biden actors who have essentially tried to play the final card before the election. this stops the president from campaigning. you'll you'll expect to hear the da revel in

that ability. if imagine donald trump is put into into prison, which, by the way, i dare them to do it. i dare them to do that, prove prove themselves right and see how much of an overreach that is, because the american people aren't as foolish as the people of new york city obviously are. >> if you're just joining us now again, i'm going to tell you what you're looking at here. so this is new york city, and we are about to hear from the district attorney who has now made history with the first district attorney that has got a conviction from a former or serving us president trump has been found guilty on all 34 counts. there's a bank of media in front of that podium. the second that that district attorney comes out there. we will take that for you. but what is interesting, errol as well, is interesting, errol as well, is that there appears to be a little bit of drama here going on. all right. so i can see two, i don't think they are whiteboards. i suspect there's something behind those, things there. this has been this has been prepared. doesn't say quite significantly . you can tell we

significantly. you can tell we are we appear to be looking at a lectern here that is about to be used for a solidly pre—prepared and pre planned interview and statement in anticipation of having found this guy guilty in front of in front of the gawping media errol . media errol. >> not only that, which is absolutely correct on all accounts, but they knew this and they flaunted it. the other day by sending robert de niro down as an official biden—harris campaign, a part chick who went and made these ridiculous announcements. they wouldn't have done that if they didn't already know the verdict. this verdict came out immediately. it was a cooked and booked thing. it's basically like betting on turkish third division soccer. it's not legitimate. this is this this election. and this thing is being influenced by outside actors in a way that has never crossed a line. it's a proverbial rubicon. yes. there's political gamesmanship. yes there's been, you know, legal attacks, but never have they crossed the line into criminal

persecution of a, of a citizen. and this is going to reverberate in ways i can't imagine. this is this is i'm getting texts from people on the left, people on the right, people out of the country. it's not, it's not, it's a human instinct. this is obviously corruption . and it's obviously corruption. and it's obviously corruption. and it's obviously going to corrupt our. >> well, let me just let me just emphasise what's happening. i mean, we were right. they've turned those whiteboards around. i can't make out exactly what's on them now, but we're going to be told soon. there's a gentleman there who's at that microphone testing the microphone. the press, they're all ready. they're all waiting. there's a bank of photographers and a bank of journalists. they are getting a little bit of a snapshot. so hopefully we'll see this on social media and we can bnng this on social media and we can bring that to you. if there is a delay here of what is on those boards. what do we know about alvin bragg? this is the man that any moment now is going to take to that microphone and say, trump, we got him. what do we know about alvin bragg, the district attorney? >> well, we know that , president >> well, we know that, president trump refers to him as fat alvin. so we can start with

that. but going from there, he's a vindictive , petty individual a vindictive, petty individual who has brought a case that nobody else would take. the state of new york wouldn't take it. the federal government wouldn't take it. but alvin bragg, this individual here believes that he's above all forms of the process, and he is going to be the one who takes it. so he's a megalomaniac. he's a narcissist. this is his 15 minutes of fame that he stretched out into a year . and stretched out into a year. and now, against my biggest wishes , now, against my biggest wishes, this man has had a substantive and real impact on the way this election is going to go. and that's terrible for the country because he does not represent anybody, let alone the good people of new york, who i thought one of them at least would be on this jury. so alvin bragg cooked and booked it, and now he's going to have his moment of, of, i guess, glory over all of the people in this country, the 80 million trump supporters who are watching their political candidate for president be put into prison, potentially for truncated charges based on nothing. and,

yeah, the sentencing date is going to be the 11th of july, 2024. >> so we have that to look forward to, i suppose, if that's one way of putting it. anyway, you are adamant that this is going to work in trump's favour. the breaking news that nigel farage brought to us not so long ago was that apparently the donation site on donald trump's websites has crashed , which websites has crashed, which implies that so many people are now desperately trying to, get, the information , get some the information, get some donations there to him. yeah. and what you're looking at now , and what you're looking at now, again, i'll just emphasise the, the district attorney is expected to give a statement any moment now, what do you say , moment now, what do you say, though, that he brought a case against trump that nobody else would. i mean, look , is that would. i mean, look, is that strictly true? because there are actually already quite a lot of other cases against trump. so clearly people were were happy to bring them against him in georgia. they were happy to

bnng georgia. they were happy to bring it against him elsewhere as well. so they they those cases were related directly to at least something that you could tie to reality , i would say. >> i mean, if you look at the records cases, the classified classic documents, there were physically documents in mar—a—lago . so like we just mar—a—lago. so like we just dispute who can declassify and this and that. just as joe biden had documents in his garage . but had documents in his garage. but this case was so far beyond the realm of reality. we're saying that by paying stormy daniels this hush money and technicality of calling a legal payment, this impacted the entire 2016 election. >> i've got to i've got to ask. i've got to ask. do you just not believe that donald trump has sex with stormy daniels? and then paid her off? >> well, i believe that he has a sworn affidavit from her saying that they didn't have an affair , that they didn't have an affair, and he denies it and she had to deny it, and she has to pay him over half $1 million in legal fees based on him winning the lawsuit against her. so based on

that, yes . i lawsuit against her. so based on that, yes. i don't think that it happened. i have no reason to disbelieve the president. >> okay. because i mean, if it did happen, the other aspect of this, which we've not actually discussed yet is, you know, as a as a conservative, as a republican on the idea of an affair with a porn star, no less, and then lying about it whilst and you'll correct me if i'm wrong on this arrow, but while married, i believe, you know that that wouldn't play well with the base, would it ? well with the base, would it? >> it wouldn't play well with the base if the base was stereotyped as a very, you know, puritanical evangelical base. but we have a big tent and america has a 50% divorce rate and majority of divorces are based on infidelity. so if anything, americans at least statistically understand a flawed candidate. if that is how they see him. i don't think that donald trump is alone in having erred, and even the christian voters often point to the fact

that god chooses interesting people , this and that. people, this and that. >> i'm going to stop you there. thank you very much. please stay where you are. we're going to go now to alvin bragg, the district attorney. let's take it. if we can live from new york city. this is alvin bragg, the district attorney who has just secured guilty verdicts on all counts against former president donald trump . he's about to take donald trump. he's about to take the stand there in front of the waiting media. let's just see if we can drop in now, hopefully, and get a little bit of the action there. i wonder what he's going to say. he must be a happy man. he has rightly or wrongly, made history , so hopefully we made history, so hopefully we can hear him. let's just let's just try to take that now . there just try to take that now. there might be a couple of issues with the connection that we've got there, so we will just keep endeavour ing to take alvin bragg there. who is the new york district attorney, just to emphasise why he's such a controversial figure, the trump

campaign are saying that he's politically motivated. he is a democrat. people are saying that , you know, he's run on campaigns like get trump and all of this stuff and that that posed a problem. and that was by definition a political interference . donald trump is interference. donald trump is staying in new york city tonight . he arrived back at trump tower. we showed that to you live here. so alvin bragg is speaking after this guilty verdict , he speaking after this guilty verdict, he was in the courtroom when the verdict was read. bragg is a former new york state and federal prosecutor and drew national attention when he made history. we can't go to alvin bragg, who is now talking bank statements and calendar appointments. >> this type of white collar prosecution is core to what we do at the manhattan district attorney's office in the 1930s, district attorney thomas dewey ushered in the era of the modern

independent professional prosecutor . we're now nearly 90 prosecutor. we're now nearly 90 years dedicated professionals in this office have built upon that fine tradition . a major part of fine tradition. a major part of our practice during that nearly 90 years has been public integrity work, including cases involving jurists, local and state electeds, public servants and others. i want to thank this phenomenal prosecution team , phenomenal prosecution team, embodying the finest traditions of this office. professionalism integrity, dedication and service , they are model public service, they are model public servants , and i am proud and servants, and i am proud and humbled to serve side by side with them . the 12 everyday with them. the 12 everyday jurors vowed to make a decision

based on the evidence and the law and the evidence and the law alone. their deliberations led them to a unanimous conclusion. beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant, donald j. trump is guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records in the first degree to conceal a scheme to corrupt the 2016 election. and while this defendant may be unlike any other in american history, we arrived at this trial and ultimately today at this verdict in the same manner as every other case that comes through the courtroom doors , by the courtroom doors, by following the facts and the law and doing so without fear or favour . i and doing so without fear or favour. i want to and doing so without fear or favour . i want to conclude by favour. i want to conclude by expressing deep gratitude to the nypd and the officers of the

officers of the office of court administration, for securing the courthouse. all of our safety , courthouse. all of our safety, making sure the courthouse and all of the other matters that are important in their own right continued, seamlessly , they will continued, seamlessly, they will continued, seamlessly, they will continue to be and have always been , incredible partners. thank been, incredible partners. thank you . thank molly, thank you . you. thank molly, thank you. >> and do you plan to request a prison sentence for that, donald trump's multiple violations of the gag order that was in place should factor in that request at all, the judge scheduled a sentencing for july 11th, we will speak in court in that time , he also set a motion schedule. we will speak in our court filings as we've done throughout this proceeding . donald trump this proceeding. donald trump has repeatedly targeted you personally, and members of your prosecution team need a response

to the former president. this trial is concluded . trial is concluded. >> i do not. february, you decided not to bring a case against donald trump. brookside belem competitive. march 2023. >> you criticised when you really started to understand that this . that this. >> how do you think of all that now, seeing the result of that, any kind of put that in context of your personal history. >> i did my job. our job is to >> i did my job. ourjob is to follow the facts and the law without fear or favour, and that's exactly what we did here. and what i feel is gratitude to work alongside phenomenal public servants who do that each and every day , in matters that you every day, in matters that you all write about, and make the press and in lots of matters that you don't, i did my job. we did our job, many voices out there , the only voice that there, the only voice that matters is the voice of the jury. and the jury has spoken . jury. and the jury has spoken. >> i asked mr steinglass , many

>> i asked mr steinglass, many people said the prosecution was masterful and flawless. i just want to know how you feel at this moment. sorry i'll let you back, how do you feel , mr steinglass? >> i think some of you probably saw him speak for a little bit. the other day, so he's done his job, as has this, team, and he just told me. tell them how i feel. i think you said that. i would just say just enormous gratitude. you know, our system. i talked about the jurors, at the beginning of my remarks , we the beginning of my remarks, we have a phenomenal system, 12 everyday new yorkers, they listen to the, the judge's directions. they follow the evidence . you saw them in court evidence. you saw them in court every day. they were careful and attentive , and so i feel deep attentive, and so i feel deep gratitude to work alongside them, to be a part of this system , and i just want to echo system, and i just want to echo that this is what we're doing

every single day. i mean, during this trial , you know, just this this trial, you know, just this week, right, ghost gun indictment , week, right, ghost gun indictment, grimaldi's wage theft. plea resolution, sex crimes. convictions, all sorts of work that's being done by phenomenal public servants. so we're we're before you today on this obviously consequential matter , but this is what we do matter, but this is what we do every day. we follow the facts and the law without fear or favour , if a jail sentence is in favour, if a jail sentence is in the cards , it is likely that the cards, it is likely that trump and his attorneys would seek a stay on enforcement of that sentence pending appeal . that sentence pending appeal. >> if that were the scenario, would your office object to staying, staying the sentence . staying, staying the sentence. i'm going to let our words in court speak for themselves when we get to the sentencing matter. >> i'm not going to address, hypotheticals. they raise arguments, we'll respond, and i think your question really

underscores an important point. this is an active, ongoing matter, right? we have other phases of this going ahead. we will continue to do our speaking about this matter, about issues like that in court right from day one. >> how did the viability of this case has been questioned in all sorts of media outlets all over the place, including from the defendant himself? can you respond to any of that? >> how you feel now that you've gotten the conviction? >> so my response again is i did my job, and i think particularly i talked about the history of the office, you know, my personal history. i started as a prosecutor in 2003, and the pubuc prosecutor in 2003, and the public integrity unit in the new york state attorney general's office. i served also in the pubuc office. i served also in the public integrity unit in the southern district of new york, these are the kind of cases i've done personally, and it's a hallmark of the tradition of this office that i'm proud to lead, and i. i don't want to go into the whole body of

litigation , you know, but we now litigation, you know, but we now have a federal court decision . have a federal court decision. varne, ruling on the legal theories . we had, a state court theories. we had, a state court decision on the omnibus motions. but most importantly , today, we but most importantly, today, we have the most important voice of all. and that's the voice of the jurors. they have spoken. donald j. trump has been convicted of 34 counts of falsifying business records. thank you. >> attorney. your office has been investigating this case since 20, are you concerned about retribution , okay. so that about retribution, okay. so that was alvin bragg, the district attorney who was speaking in front of the american and the world's press. he was saying that the most important voice that the most important voice that was heard there was the voice of the jury. it's fascinating , though, isn't it, fascinating, though, isn't it, when you hear the way that i mean, this with respect, foreign press asks people questions. so one of the questions , put to him one of the questions, put to him there genuinely by a reporter was people have said that the

prosecution here was masterful and flawless. how do you respond to that in the 1950s when people say, prime minister, would you care to address the country , care to address the country, it's extraordinary, isn't it? it is just, you know, we complain about the british press, but at least we have a vibrancy that some rather lacking in those questions. >> you're listening to the voice there of matthew lazo is a former labour party adviser. susan evans is still with us here in the studio. and i keep threatening to go to susan, and they're not quite doing it. but thatis they're not quite doing it. but that is because we do have a us attorney, deborah blum, who's on the line for us right now. deborah, thank you very , very deborah, thank you very, very much. and so donald trump is holed up in trump tower as we speak, where we think he's, spending the night. and, we've just heard from alvin bragg, a man who has had repeated personal insults from donald trump. he declined to hit back there, but, he's as far as he's concerned , he's done his job. concerned, he's done his job. would you mind reacting to what is an absolutely historic moment

in in history here? i'm shocked by the verdict. >> i really don't believe that the prosecution proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt . case beyond a reasonable doubt. i don't believe that they proved intent to defraud. don't believe that they proved that trump had knowledge of what was going on, the ledger entries being manipulated , things of that manipulated, things of that nature. so i'm absolutely shocked. i think that this is a historic verdict. it definitely is going to be overturned. i think that there's good reason to appeal it. and i'm really cunous to appeal it. and i'm really curious if the judge is going to sentence donald trump to jail time. he's a first time offender. it's a non—violent crime . typically, these types of crime. typically, these types of charges do not carry a jail sentence. but he was convicted on so many counts. and also we know that there was violations of the gag order contempt. so i'm really curious if judge merchant is going to sentence him to jail . him to jail. >> yeah. i mean, are they at

risk of creating a monster here? trump obviously will appeal this. there's no two ways about that. he could then be found not guilty. he could be found guilty again. he could be sentenced to prison. i mean , i just wonder prison. i mean, ijust wonder whether or not either way. and you know, trump has become more powerful in all of this. what's your view? >> i definitely think that this is only making his base stronger and stronger and getting him more and more support. i mean, alvin bragg has $41 million in his bank account. people question how that happened. i think that people are going to question some of judge merchant's rulings in this matter , especially how he matter, especially how he handled the defence witness . i handled the defence witness. i think that a lot of people feel that this was a political i got you, you know, and i'm curious to see how it's all going to end up. i'm really curious if the judge is going to sentence him to jail. typically, somebody of this background of his age would not get a jail sentence . but not get a jail sentence. but also we had the contempt, so

that could factor in. >> okay. yeah. i will just point out that alvin bragg isn't here to defend himself . so, you know, to defend himself. so, you know, there we go. we are seeing these are these are live shots right now of new york city. and