the republican's campaign have gone up . in a speech at trump gone up. in a speech at trump tower, mr trump described the conviction as a scam verdict. >> i'm doing something for this country and i'm doing something for our constitution. it's very important far beyond me and this can't be allowed to happen to other presidents. it should never be allowed to happen in the future. but this is far beyond me. this is bigger than trump. this is bigger than me. this is bigger than my presidency . presidency. >> well, donald trump also attacked joe biden, describing him as the dumbest president even him as the dumbest president ever. however, speaking in the last half hour, joe biden himself said trump is confused , himself said trump is confused, desperate and defeated, and his statement is proof he can't be president of the united states of course, i respect the justice system of the united states, but it's not my place to comment on a live judicial process, which i would also not do in our own . would also not do in our own. >> it's also not subject to conclusion. you do not know if someone's going to appeal or not. and i wouldn't also comment

on judicial processes while they're ongoing in our own country, because there's a separation between politicians and judicial systems. and we should let judicial systems do what they need to do independently of politics. >> you sunak there. commenting on trump's conviction, he says trump's trial is not exactly his focus . focus. >> of course, i respect the justice system of the united states, but it's not my place to comment on a live judicial process, which i would also not do in our own. it's also not subject to conclusion. you do not know if someone's going to appeal or not, and i wouldn't also comment on judicial processes while they're ongoing in our own country, because there's a separation between politicians and judicial systems, and we should let judicial systems do what they need to do independently of politics. >> apologies for that. we played that clip twice to election news now, and sir keir starmer has given the green light for labour veteran diane abbott to stand as a labour candidate in the general election in july. it's after the mp was suspended over comments she made suggesting

that jewish, irish and traveller people experienced prejudice but not racism for days. the labour leader had declined to confirm whether miss abbott would be defending her seat. but this afternoon sir keir said she could stand labour and a vote for labour is a is a chance to end that chaos , to turn a page, end that chaos, to turn a page, to change for the better of the country , to change our nhs, to country, to change our nhs, to change our public services to make sure our economy is stable, to make sure our communities are cared for and to move forward and rebuild our country. >> that is the choice i accept. not a single vote has been cast. i'm humble about this and i know every vote must be earned. but the power now, under our democracy is with the voters to how. >> now. >> man has admitted threatening to kill the former labour leader ed miliband. the 56 year old michael donaldson made the comments about the mp for doncaster in march in an apparent reference to the murders of mps jo cox and sir

david amess. a judge told him it was a serious crime to threaten a politician given recent history. he's been remanded in custody ahead of sentencing in july. and finally, some sporting news for you. hopes of british tennis success at the french open have ended in yet more disappointment, this time in the doubles, where hearing in the last half hour andy murray and dan evans, along with the pairing of katie boulter and heather watson, have all gone out in the first round. that's all british hope out of the roland—garros opening stages in paris . that's it. back now to . patrick. >> good evening and welcome to the gb news general election. special things were going so well for sir keir starmer until this. >> i'm not going to allow myself to be intimidated right now. >> and then the hard left labour

rebellion kicked in. >> i don't think there's any reason why diane couldn't stand as a labour mp . as a labour mp. >> then scottish labour's anas sarwar piled in and as a trailblazer in the labour party, someone with a proud history of delivery both for our party and her local community, and someone who made history by being elected as the first woman, first black woman mp. and then sir keir caved in. >> the whip has obviously been restored to her now , and she is restored to her now, and she is free to go forward as a labour candidate . candidate. >> well, to make matters worse, he went to launch his flagship environmental policy and then this happened . yes, he took a this happened. yes, he took a private jet there for the tories, though rishi sunak pitted the old against the young , there was this day. >> what we've announced is the triple lock. plus we're going to increase the personal allowance for pensioners delivering a tax cut worth around £100 to millions of pensioners . millions of pensioners. >> followed by this no more mickey mouse degrees. and his

aide had to rescue him from an awkward eye roll in the audience. that is the secure future i want for all of you. >> that's a secure future i want for our country, and with your support, i will be delighted to deliver it for you. thanks very much. right, okay. we're going to open it up to some questions. >> yes. blinking almost. it's tough there. now reform have come up with this which is bad news for some people, including the company i work for. companies like gb news employ more than five foreign workers . more than five foreign workers. all right. i don't think we're getting them on the cheap. i mean, they might they might disagree with that, but i don't think we're getting them on the cheap, you know? so all of a sudden companies like gb news will be paying through the nose under a reform policy. have you thought it through? >> yeah. well, quite right too. if you won't employ brits, don't employ brits. >> yeah. cheers. and the greens announced their campaign. >> green party is ready. we've been ready for this general election for a long time. >> weirdly, though, they didn't want to mention the environment that much, and hopefully they've

not been infiltrated by more of this week will not be silent. >> we will raise the voice of gaza. we will raise the voice of palestine. hello hello. >> oh, yes. and the lib dems . >> oh, yes. and the lib dems. sir davey is still on a mad one. >> are you enjoying this? honestly oh. come down. >> so here are the latest polling numbers from yougov. the tories are on 21. labour on 46% reform, uk on 15, lib dems 8, green party 6% and the snp 2. however if you want the most up to date definitive picture , you to date definitive picture, you had better tune in to my show tonight at 9 pm. when we have got a big general election exclusive for you, so that is 9:00 pm on my usual show patrick christys tonight, right at the start of it, a huge general election exclusive that will probably be leading the news agenda, i imagine, throughout the weekend. and you will get it

first there. but what a panel i have tonight. we've got angela knight, former conservative mp and economic secretary to the treasury, bill rammell, former labour mp and minister for the armed forces . labour mp and minister for the armed forces. norman brennan, former liberal democrat. brennan r baker . former liberal democrat. brennan r baker. sorry, i often get a police officer called norman brennan. apologies, norman. there we are. i watch crime prevention minister, former liberal democrat mp and stickler for facts and home office minister, as well . look, plenty minister, as well. look, plenty to come from them tonight, but i wanted to start with an interview. i did a little bit earlier on, so i caught up with shadow secretary of state for scotland ian murray, and started by asking him about labour's plans. this was the big one today for a great british energy company has all been costed in the £8.3 billion of capitalisation would bring in 3 to 1 in terms of private spending, and this is about what the big operators are trying to do. >> they are already transitioning away and have their own plans away from fossil fuels and having great british energy to give us clean energy by 2030 is a way of the government backing that, backing private enterprise to help us deliver it and having a national

mission towards it. it's a pretty exciting policy and what it will do is create jobs in the new industries of the future . new industries of the future. keir was very clear today when he announced the policy, and ed has been very clear. miliband, as the shadow secretary of state that this will create a lot of jobs. it will mean that we'll have a proper transition money, though, with respect. >> do we have any idea how many jobs? because they are saying that 42,000 are going to be lost. so there is that number knocking about at the minute. >> well, we're predicting 50,000 jobs in scotland alone. it will be headquartered in scotland and fossil fuels will be around for decades to come. there is no doubt about that. we're not turning this off overnight. there's no cliff edge and our union colleagues have been demanding a plan for the transition away from fossil fuels in the north sea. well, this is the plan. this is the plan we're putting forward. this is the plan is very exciting to try and get to clean energy by 2030. and it's about government backing it. what the industry haven't had over the last 10 or 15 years is any government that's willing to back this put their money behind it and also

make it publicly owned. so the pubuc make it publicly owned. so the public benefit from it and the energy crisis has hastened people's antennae in terms of what this needs to do. and we're very excited about it. >> look, there's a heck of a lot to pick apart about those numbers. now, we'll do that shortly. but i did ask mr murray there why, if there is such a climate emergency, would their leader take a private jet to talk about clean energy? he did say, of course, that he offsets the carbon for that. >> it's an election campaign where you want the leader to be all over the country, sometimes particularly giving a crumbling pubuc particularly giving a crumbling public transport infrastructure, which of course, we'll renationalise is one of our policies in terms of the trains. sometimes it just has to get one from a to b, but he does offset all of that carbon . all of that carbon. >> yeah. do you know how much that renationalisation of the trains is going to cost? >> it won't cost anything because they'll come into the pubuc because they'll come into the public arena at the when their tenders expire. and they'll all expire over the period of the next labour government in the first term of it. if we're lucky enough to get back into power, yes. but i can't help but wonder whether or not that was not true

ehhen whether or not that was not true either. another thing to get into with my panel, but just finally on this, i did have to ask him, didn't i? sir keir starmer's handling of the diane abbott debacle. >> it's been utterly consistent since wednesday, when this story broke. utterly consistent in saying that the whip has been restored to diane abbott, utterly consistent in saying that no decision has been made. and he repeated that when he was asked to questions by several journalists in scotland this morning when he was launching the six steps for scotland and the six steps for scotland and the green energy plan. and of course, a few hours later, decision had been made then to allow diane abbott to stand and as diane abbott has said herself on thursday night at hackney town hall, she wants to continue to be an mp. so we look forward to be an mp. so we look forward to her being the candidate and endorsed by the nec on tuesday. >> well, hang on a minute. this is surely double standards. i mean, the diane abbott comments were anti—semitic and you all remember when labour went after lee anderson when he was a conservative there for the remarks he made about sadiq khan?i remarks he made about sadiq khan? i put this to him. >> i think everyone can see what lee anderson said and make their own conclusions from that. the bottom line is that, diane

abbott was punished. there was an independent investigation. she's done what the independent investigation has asked her to do. she's been restored to the whip. hopefully the course that she's done has meant that she has now learnt from her lesson from that. and we look forward to being back. but like any other party member, whether it be the leader of the labour party, diane abbott, myself or an ordinary party member anywhere in the uk, they are deau anywhere in the uk, they are dealt with with the rules of the labour party and if such things happen, they are dealt with harshly and quite rightly so. there's a zero tolerance approach in the labour party to anti—semitism, as keir laid out in his leadership, and we will continue to have that zero tolerance approach. >> all right. heck of a lot to go out here. i will now bring in my panel. look, i'll start with you on this, this great british energy. okay and the industry has warned that labour's plans will cost 42,000 jobs. some of the big beasts shell, exxon mobil, they're already leaving the area could cost £26 billion in economic value. this does not make economic sense, does it? >> i think it does, because it's about the energy and the economy

of the future . of the future. >> we've said oil and gas is going to be part of the mix for many, many years to come, but we're not going to commission new contracts. and, you know, the backdrop to this is the huge rise in energy prices, prices that we're still living with. and this government has made us overly dependent on oil and gas, subject to the fluctuations of the international markets. with great british energy, a publicly owned company, driving renewables, we will give ourselves greater security . ourselves greater security. >> we don't we don't know whether we're going to be buying existing assets from the private sector, building new assets from scratch or investing in new projects. do we don't know, because only the last two of those things would actually add to the uk's energy generation and storage capacity. >> and that's what we're we're determined to do. i'll tell you what i think. if you told me, i think this policy has got real cut through. if you look at the opinion polls, if you look in focus groups, it's one of the most popular pledges that we're putting forward. >> okay. all right. now, andrew,

i'll bring you i'll bring you in on this. i mean, he cares so much about the environment. he took a private jet there. >> yeah, well, i imagine that dunng >> yeah, well, i imagine that during the course of this election, all the party leaders will mess up on something. so, frankly, yes, you can say that was pretty stupid thing to do, but i'm not going to say that nobody else is going to do a stupid thing after all, diving into lake windermere or whatever it was. yeah. >> well, which is supposedly full of sewage, by the way as well. >> yes, but but i think the key thing, you know, let's come back to great british energy and let's come back to what we really need, because i absolutely buy the argument and always have that moving towards net zero, doing something more about renewables, bringing in private finance, mixing the money is a good thing. private finance, mixing the money is a good thing . i think money is a good thing. i think to me there's three fundamental issues. first of all, the timetable. you can't do this too quickly for two reasons. firstly, you haven't got the supply chains and the second is that it's going to cost a lot of money regardless. somebody's got to pay for it. but the second thing is that renewables are by their very nature, intermittent. so every time you build a

something of renewables, you've got to have an equal something of back up the whole battery area is not properly developed. so if i was going to say, what do we need now and really quickly to get to net zero, it is the small scale nuclear. it is. you know, whilst we catch up with what we've done as wind, because we are a leader in offshore wind around the world, which is good. and it's this balance of cost. what's really needed, looking at what's underneath, which i think is absolutely important to bring any policy home, whether it's yours, whether it's lib dems, whether it's green, we are a bit or whether we are a bit pressed for time and there's something i really want to bring norman in on because this is something that i know you are very keen to chat about. >> now i deliberately asked that question about the rail nationalisation there, which is a policy that appears to have gone under the radar from labour a bit. he said it wouldn't cost anything. do you think that's a lie, don't you? >> well, it's first of all the changes to the rail system, which have been proposed by the

government, actually, and by labour and lib dems, which aren't significantly different in most regards, will cost money because gbr will be set up and there's a huge need for changing tickets and everything else. so a whole lot of stuff on rail is going to cost money. as far as the specific policy that labour has, which is unique to them, which is taking back control in each of the franchises, that will cost money indirectly. and the reason it will cost money is this patrick, because you are going to have the executioner's axe posed, above the existing companies who got contracts which are going to run through, in some cases, 20, 30, as soon as the executioner's axe has been announced and it's there, they'll stop doing anything creative. they will just say, we'll do the absolute minimum on our contract and the stuff we would have done otherwise to improve customer service and drive up numbers will not happen, so they will lose from that. but can i come back on the energy point, which yeah, it's a very important point to come back on. i mean, first of all, i should say that i was advocating this on behalf of the lib dems. this sort of move we've seen from labour today back in about 2005 and was told by the labour

government at the time it was all rubbish and couldn't be done. so i'm glad we did come round to our way of thinking on that. it's absolutely right to go towards net zero and it's absolutely right to say as the labour party fairly has done today, that if you invest in this area, you create jobs in renewables, you generate business, which makes you a world leader, which means you export potential for what you're doing. you stop yourself being dependent upon vladimir putin and other people around the world for their energy. and that's fair enough. >> but can i just say we're already investing? it's just not the taxpayer paying for it. so look at this. the department for energy and net zero, that is us recently estimated there will be £100 billion worth of. no. there we go. private investment put towards uk energy by 2030. national grid only this week plans to invest £31 billion. sse is investing 18 billion, there's also going to be other billions and billions of billions of pounds. why does a small state owned company need to be set up? >> well, first of all, it gives a lead. it gives confidence to the private sector that the direction of travel is such that when they invest, the government will match it or add to it in some way, shape or form. that's

necessary because the private sector in any regard, not just energy, but anything wants certainty from the government. and if the government's policy is not clear on any particular issue, then they don't invest. it's as simple as that. >> but those those numbers have got to be paid for and somebody's got to pay for it. and it's a guy. they're going to be us on our electricity bill, because don't forget, we talk about energy, but this sits on the electricity bill or it's going to come out of general taxation because nobody, you know, this isn't free money. no, no, no. but renewable energy to be absolutely clear to everybody that if they want net zero and i'm not disagreeing with net zero, then there is a big sum of money which each and every one cheapen >> but to get the private sector to invest, they want predictability and they want confidence. and that's what's been sadly lacking. we're also playing private investor has invested hugely look look look at some of our to make this work we need more. but we're also playing catch up because the tory government set its face against wind farms in in a no. >> that's onshore populist offshore gesture very well . offshore gesture very well.

>> yeah but why why did you set your face against it onshore. >> it is very easy to answer you that question and that is onshore in theory is great. people do not like it. okay. and in the end. >> but you have to leave people. >> but you have to leave people. >> let me, let me just because i'm going to get shouted out by by everybody watching and listening if i don't raise the other big story in in relation to labour of the day, which is which is diane abbott. okay, bill, i'll start with you again on this. i mean, sir flip flop in full flow here, isn't he? he was distancing himself from it. then he's caved in to the likes of angela rayner. i mean, is she running the show? >> he's he's not caved in. but look, i'm not i'm not going to pretend it's been our best 36 hours. look, i've disagreed with diane abbott for over 27 years on a whole range of issues, but she's a very significant figure in the black community, the first black female mp and a lot of people look to her. this case has gone on for far , far, far has gone on for far, far, far too long. my understanding was that a putative deal had been done whereby the whip would be restored to angela and she would retire with dignity. some somebody . retire with dignity. some somebody. diane. >> diane.

>> diane. >> sorry, diane. some somebody in their brief gets taken away later on. >> sorry. >> sorry. >> somebody then briefed the times that she wasn't going to be allowed to stand. my view is that person should be taken out and metaphorically given a punishment. beating and that created all these problems. and it was a distraction. all right. and i think we've reached the right decision. >> i wonder, though, if there are double standards here, what she said was anti—semitic. it was also, by the way, offensive to irish and the traveller community, although they didn't get much of a look in there the way that labour went after the likes of lee anderson. sadiq khan comments i mean, do you not think this is a double standard, it does look like that to me from the outside, actually, and it's not a very long ago, earlier this week that i was speaking with a lady who is both jewish and had red hair, and she's still very, very upset about what diane abbott said. but i think that, you know, that is one thing. the second is that if as a party, you're going to look into what one of your members of parliament said to have taken as long as this, apparently there was some sort

of agreement . but as you rightly of agreement. but as you rightly say, bill, there's some sort of agreement at christmas. tomorrow isjune agreement at christmas. tomorrow is june the 1st. and suddenly this all comes up that strikes me as something really wrong there, both for her because she was, you know, i agree with you. she is, she is a lady of stature. so that wasn't fair. but also, sorry , one last thing but also, sorry, one last thing also. also, it seemed also, it seems to me that keir starmer is taking a huge period of time to actually make a decision and that doesn't sit very well. >> i'll tell you what, the leader, i'll tell you what the double standard is. it's a double standard is. it's a double standard. a double standard is the way he's treating people on the left of the party in a way, the right of the party in a way, the right of the party, because people on the right of the party get away with murder. people on the left of the party are excluded and had their seats taken away. >> all right, all right, all right. >> okay. lovely stuff. what a star. all right, still to come. two huge hitters, lee anderson and sir bill cash. but next i speak to tory minister of state for enterprise, markets and small business, kevin

hollinrake, and i

gb news. welcome back to our general election special. now, the tories think they may have salvaged their election hopes with the plan to bring back national service. but is that really going to do the job? and crucially, as well, we need some detail on this, don't we? who's exempt? who is going to be exempt? who is going to be exempt from this? i caught up with minister of state for enterprise markets and small business, kevin hollinrake earlier today. >> he will be exempt from it when it's in place, it will be, introduced flexibly. it's subject to a royal commission who are going to put the detail, are going to inform us about what the right way to do it is. but, the intention is that every 18 year old will do it. it will work flexibly so that people can, potentially , do it around, can, potentially, do it around, do their service around other commitments they have, such as some work commitments where that, where that's required. but

there's no exemption as such because conceivably that could include footballers who played for england, couldn't it? yes, exactly. and that's why you want to make sure that they can do it in the time they're not playing football for england, which we clearly want them to do. >> so you would be happy for 18 year old english footballers to be doing a bit of national service on the side. yeah well, i remember distinctly you may not. >> you're too young to remember patrick, but elvis presley going to his service in the as a gi. i don't know if you remember that, but it's i think it's fantastic that we all play our part. it's fantastic that we, that we contribute to towards, society and, and that thing that builds pride in the country. and i think the people i speak to on the doorstep feel the same. i think jude bellingham should stay in spain, as a result of that. >> but anyway, another proposal from the conservative party this week was scrapping the so—called mickey mouse university degree . mickey mouse university degree. so basically, courses that don't propel graduates into, well paid

jobs. instead, there will be an increase in spending on apprenticeships . increase in spending on apprenticeships. but increase in spending on apprenticeships . but look, what apprenticeships. but look, what are these real mickey mouse degrees again, it would be nice to have a bit more detail, wouldn't it ? wouldn't it? >> degrees are ones where people don't get a decent job, so they just go through the process of getting a degree and they might even get the degree, of course, where dropout, rates are very high, or whether people move into jobs that are lowly paid . into jobs that are lowly paid. we're going to give the power to the regulator, the office for students, to look at these and advise us, which they think are the worst performing courses. so it's not a case of particular universities. it's not a case of picking out and naming and naming and shaming at this stage. it's taking an objective view as to which courses are good value in terms of the individual, to make sure those people have good earning power and also, again, they can contribute to the economy, which we clearly need them to do. >> it just strikes me that there was a potential opportunity to have really clamped down on student visas, that that has not really formed a major part of

this campaign. but but meanwhile, reform have got their flagship immigration business tax. so firms would pay a 20% rate of national insurance for foreign workers, up from the current 13.8. i believe that was originally put forward by suella braverman. actually, should you have done that, do you think ? have done that, do you think? >> well, i wouldn't like to comment. i mean, i think it's interesting policy. i think we have already it's already quite expensive to bring somebody in from abroad. various different in terms of the cost of a visa and the cost of, the contribution to the nhs, for example, significant costs for employers. it's all about a balance , making sure our balance, making sure our employers can find good people, good skilled people to fill the jobs where we need them to, so and we are already clamping down in terms of some of the abuses around student visas, dependence and the like. we're stopping those routes in. so the measures were put in already will reduce net migration by around 300,000 a year. so a lot of that work is ongoing. but as well we need to

make sure that the universities are , equipping people for good are, equipping people for good jobs into the future. good jobs for them and good jobs to our economy. we want this . economy. we want this. >> okay. >> okay. >> all right. well, joining me is angela knight, former conservative mp and economic secretary to the treasury. bill rammell, former labour mp and minister for the armed forces. norman baker, former liberal democrat mp and home office minister. angela, i will start with you on this . might, this with you on this. might, this national service policy , many national service policy, many people think might be a decent idea in principle, but it has been drawn up on the back of a fag packet, hasn't it? >> well, that doesn't seem to be many details underneath. and that, of course, is why they've said we've put in place the royal commission. but it is quite interesting that it is getting a lot of positive comments because instinctively we all know that there is something about 818 year olds coming out, not sure what they're going to do or whatever, and to channel them somewhere , and to channel them somewhere, whether it is into community service, which they've got to do on a regular basis, or whether

it is something with the armed forces. and interestingly, i asked a few reservists what their view was and their view was, well, if you put the structure in place, yes, we're quite positive about that. so i don't think that sort of high level idea is going to go away. and yeah , i would hope that and yeah, i would hope that a royal commission does get put in place. it can broaden out the question, but i don't think it should put the question away, because it's not right for young people who don't quite know what they're doing, where they're going. >> well, it will it would be nice to have a bit of detail and, you know, just spend a bit of time there talking about labour's policies and maybe some, some holes in that. and, you know, i think that there are, there are very much holes in this. i know, bill, you were, you were shaking your head. but the other one, from the tories, really the big one there is about these mickey mouse university degrees and that appears to be doing away with tony blair's idea that pretty much everyone should go to university. and i think that thatis university. and i think that that is a good thing, isn't it? get the apprenticeships going, get people in trades know well, i declare an interest. >> i was a former, armed forces

minister. i was also the higher education minister that brought in the new fees act and the expansion of higher education. what i think is interesting about both these subjects is it's a desperate core vote strategy. it's appealing to the over 65 who are tempted to go to reform . it's not a winning reform. it's not a winning strategy. and in terms of university education, you know, a lot of what people call mickey mouse degrees are actually modern vocational degrees. in another sense, people in the tory party say that they want to be supported and, you know, not the taxpayers shouldn't pay for somebody to do a three year tourism management degree or sort of public administration. >> why is it paying for that if it gives you the critical thinking, analytical skills that you need to thrive in the workplace, ever phase of the expansion of higher education has been attacked by people who've got vested interests. >> and you know, the tories talk about expanding apprenticeships. they've actually cut apprenticeships by 40% during their term in office. >> all right ,

their term in office. >> all right, norman, your views on on this mickey mouse stuff because that's been one of the big ones today. >> i mean people come out apparently from university with an average of £45,000 worth of debt. and there are plenty of courses, plenty of them. i've just named a couple there where even after five years out of university, you are not expected to earn more than 22 or 23 grand. why is the taxpayer paying grand. why is the taxpayer paying for all of these people? >> keep them off the unemployment register. i think it's a simple answer. no, i think honestly, there are there are degrees which shouldn't be taken forward because there are no prospects of jobs at the end. that's perfectly true. i think it's insulting to call the mickey mouse degrees, but nevertheless, that's what they are called. can i come back to the issue, however, about national service? because the idea from bill hollinrake that england footballers would be forced into national service is an own goal, if you like, in football terms. certainly not worth pursuing. and bill's right, actually, this is a tack to the right. this is a this is a sense, along with the so—called triple lock, plus this £100 for pensioners. and by the way, pensioners are are worse off because they've got no tax threshold increase like everybody else. this is what

this is about. it's about trying to make sure the vote on the right doesn't disappear off to reform. but 18 to 24 year olds by and large, don't vote if you're going to. and if you did vote, they wouldn't vote tory. >> and labour wants to let them vote. >> and the one way and the one way to galvanise young people to vote is to tell them, got national service. so that's another although the dice by letting them do it from 16. >> look it doesn't mean that it's wrong. >> it doesn't. we should not continue to ignore the fact that there are 18 year olds, 19 year olds. >> then why did a tory defence minister, two days before the announcement say that there would be no national service because it would do more harm than good? >> well, because it's all chaos, isn't it? we know it's not. >> the answer is because we're now in a period and, as you rightly say, still to come policies from all. >> sorry about this. we are on the clock. apologies still to come, still to come. i speak to sir bill cash. he is standing down as an mp after 40 years of service. but next, lee anderson from reform will be here. i'll him why they to tax businesses for employing overseas workers.

is an odd

welcome back to the show. now, then. as we mentioned earlier , then. as we mentioned earlier, reform are planning an immigration tax on firms. i know ispoke immigration tax on firms. i know i spoke to one witkam last night. we played you a clip at the start of the show, asking other businesses, even like gb news or dare i say, actually, most businesses that employ foreign nationals, that they would be taxed to high heaven.

as a result of this. it is time now for lee anderson, who usually occupies this slot on a friday from the pub . lee, thank friday from the pub. lee, thank you very much. great to great to have you on what used to be your show. so i hope you're doing all right, mate. but, look, this, this flagship immigration business tax. so firms would pay a higher 20% rate of national insurance for foreign workers , insurance for foreign workers, up from the current 13.8. have you really thought this through? because a lot of businesses might go to the wall over this? >> no absolute nonsense , >> no absolute nonsense, patrick. i mean, this is about putting british people first. >> it's about putting young british workers first and giving them more opportunities. it's far too easy now for some of the big corporations, the big businesses in this country, to recruit cheap foreign labour. and what we're saying is to these businesses, it's all well and good that you're, you know, you're producing and manufacturing stuff around the country and telling people to buy british. what we're saying is buy british labour, especially young people. if we can do that, we can grow the

economy and make this country a much fairer and better place to live in. it's the right thing to do. and by the way, patrick, i've had many tory colleagues over the past two days messaged me to say what a fantastic idea this is. they've missed the bus on this one. >> well, apparently suella braverman did put it forward originally, and if that is the case then then yes, they have missed the bus. what i would say on it though, is that it's all very well and good talking about the big companies like your amazon's of this world or, you know, pret a manger or tesco or all of these people where you regularly go in and a lot of their staff are obviously foreign labour. but that's not everyone, is it, lee? there are a lot of just ordinary businesses in cities that just have loads of british workers and quite a few foreign ones as well, because they're the best ones for the job. but but your policy would hit them, so you've not been paying attention. >> again, patrick, i'm very disappointed in you on this one. we've already said that it won't affect employers. that's got less than five employees, and there will be a transition period. and over the coming weeks, you know, people like me and richard and nigel are speaking to local businesses. i

know for a fact i'm speaking to local businesses in ashfield to see how that will affect their business and make sure that we have a smooth transition period. look, this is about protecting, you know, british people's jobs , you know, british people's jobs, making sure that british people, especially young people , get especially young people, get into the workplace and they're not disadvantaged. there is nothing wrong with that. it's the right and decent thing to do i >> -- >> all lyman >> all right, lee, thank you very much. that's lee anderson there. who is standing for reform and norman, i'm, i like lee anderson, but i don't i think he's being wilfully, misleading about some of those things there because all well and good saying. well, businesses who employ less than five people. yeah. fine. but there is a world of difference between your overtly small business and a company the size of tesco's. and as it stands under reform, they would all end up paying a 20% national insurance for foreign workers, which would be very damaging. >> look, i mean, there are two other aspects to this. one is that, if it were implemented, you would end up with companies trying to make people redundant in to order go below that particular level, which would actually be very unfair. you'd

end up with a major problem, including people suing for unfair dismissal. i suspect, the second issue is there are a lot of industries, including the care sector, where there aren't british workers. i mean, we perhaps it should be. well, there aren't apparently. >> apparently they are. okay. >> apparently they are. okay. >> but there's other sectors too , which are the nhs generally are very dependent on foreign workers. you know, you've got to be very careful about this. you don't damage industries all right. >> what i will say though, angela, is that actually for far too long in this country and under a conservative government, we have seen people relying on the drug of cheap foreign labour when there were british workers. and there are british workers who could do those jobs. there may be just too proud to do them for the wages that are on offer. >> yeah, well, i think i mean, what this has done is it's hit a few points. one, the immigration point and, you know, there is a very real concern about the level of immigration and i don't just mean the illegal immigration, i mean the legal it's got that as well. so it's hit that spot. there's the second one which that statistic, which i don't know the accuracy of, but there's something in it

which came out a few weeks ago, which came out a few weeks ago, which was something like 20% of the working population in age terms. yeah. yeah. isn't actually working now. the chunk of that is because they'll be caring for people and other things, but there's a chunk who 1.9 million, 1.9 million economically inactive, 18 to 25 year olds. so i can see why the reforms come up with its policy. i don't think compulsion is correct, and i don't think putting tax on is correct, but i do think that focusing on those people and getting them into jobs, and i do agree that there is a hierarchy which we seem to have forgotten , where actually have forgotten, where actually employing people locally is a good go on then that hierarchy , good go on then that hierarchy, because that's what reform are trying to do, put brits at the top of the hierarchy. >> what's wrong with that? look i agree with you, patrick, that we have been overly dependent on overseas labour, but you need a skills strategy and you need better wages to actually tackle that problem . that problem. >> this proposal from reform, i don't think , adds up. it would

don't think, adds up. it would add significant costs of business without the skills strategy being in place. they say it will raise £4 billion a yeah say it will raise £4 billion a year. i'm really struggling to see that . that would make sense. see that. that would make sense. one thing i think we should do in the labour party is proposing it is to bring back the resident , labour market requirement, where firms have to have demonstrate before they recruit an overseas worker that they've tried to recruit a british worker. >> all right. okay. >> all right. okay. >> no, no, no no lib dem gas this week. we did have one last week. no lib dem guess what. apart from you but no serving i mean but we have christine jardine coming on to join us next week. there we go. in the meantime though, we can get the lib dem viewpoint from the one and only norman baker, former home office minister, the coalition government. one quick question to you, norman. what is ed davey doing and where? what's he on and where can i get some what ed davey is doing? >> i think he's trying to recognise the fact that the media traditionally has been very bipolar, if you like, between labour and conservative and trying to get trying to get any coverage for the lib dems is any coverage for the lib dems is

an uphill struggle, as it is for the greens and other parties. and in order to try to get some coverage, he's adopted this approach of interesting photo ops, which has given him some coverage. now is it maybe maybe not the ideal coverage, but it's a way of getting the news. and, you know, if you're if you're not getting the news and there's a general election coming, then you have to come up with some inventive ideas, some inventive ideas. >> well, look, yes, it remains to be seen how much the wider pubuc to be seen how much the wider public actually know about any of his policies. but we are certainly it doesn't matter. >> well, it's an embarrassing. >> well, it's an embarrassing. >> everybody knows. >> everybody knows. >> everybody know what i mean? it doesn't matter is there's such an appetite to get the tories out. >> that, combined with tactical voting, means i actually think the lib dems are going to win 40 or 50 seats. >> well, interesting, interesting stuff actually. >> and i'll talk to you about something in the break on that. but anyway, still to come tonight, last but definitely least, sir bill cash is stepping down as an mp after 40

welcome back to the show. now, many mps have decided this election is the right time for them to step down. but few have done so. after giving as many years of service as sir bill cash, he won his staffordshire seat in a by—election in may 1984 and has been serving his constituents and holding governments to account for 40 years since then. he was knighted after being recognised in the queen's birthday honours list in 2014. he was seen as a driving force behind brexit and indeed many other things. i'm delighted to say that sir bill cash joins me now to discuss his

remarkable career. good evening. thank you very, very much. well, did you step down with a heavy heart? >> well, it's a bit of a wrench. i mean, after 40 years, you get pretty used to it all. but i must say that, you know, i've had an incredibly interesting time. but more than that, i've really loved being in the houses of parliament, we have a very , of parliament, we have a very, very great parliament. it's real democracy. and thank heavens we've now got it back, our sovereignty back again, for which i've fought for the past. well, 35, 40 years. and it really does matter because it gives back to people the right to govern themselves and, leaving the european union was absolutely essential . and you absolutely essential. and you only have to look at the mess the european union is in at the moment to realise what an incredible benefit it is to us to be outside. >> is that the thing you're most proud of? >> yes, it is really. i mean, that, you see, is i made up my mind within a matter of months of being put on the european scrutiny select committee, of

which i've been chairman for the last 14 years now. but that was back in 1984 when i went on the committee. and i've been on it ever since. and basically i discovered really quite quickly that really it was a complete rubber stamp, as far as we were concerned, because they were telling us what to do, we were subjugated to their law making, and the laws are made by the council of ministers behind closed doors and without even a transcript and by majority voting of other countries . now, voting of other countries. now, nobody can say that we're in a democracy. if that's the case. so as far as i was concerned, oncei so as far as i was concerned, once i made up my mind, that was my main issue. and it did take quite a long time. i mean, from 90, my first sovereignty amendment , 90, my first sovereignty amendment, in a in a piece of legislation which i put forward was in 1986. and when we got out in 2020, the words i'd used in that, which is basically that the sovereignty of the united kingdom must prevail over all

other legislation, was actually entrenched in what's called section 38 of the withdrawal agreement act in 2020. so it took from 1986 right the way through to 2020. and i can only say i'm absolutely thrilled to bits. of course, the referendum, enabled us to be able to do that. >> yes, bill. >> yes, bill. >> who's who's the most impressive political figure you've come across in your 40 odd years, margaret thatcher? absolutely i was devoted to her. i got to know her extremely well, in, sort of the latter part of my, my career and, or at least in the latter part of her career when i was with her and she was absolutely fantastic, she was absolutely fantastic, she was absolutely fantastic, she was the dominating force in british politics. and in fact , british politics. and in fact, in british politics as a whole. she really was an amazing person, she had terrific values , person, she had terrific values, terrific principles, she was a leader . and terrific principles, she was a leader. and she also was incredibly successful .

incredibly successful. >> okay. >> okay. >> just now we're going to have to be quite tight on this, sybil, but how do you see it going at this election now? you know , it may be tricky, a tricky know, it may be tricky, a tricky time for you to stand down. i'm sure that you probably would have would have loved to continue fighting. but how do you see this going? >> well, i at 84, i felt it was time to go, you know, because that's the honest truth , but i that's the honest truth, but i didn't want to be carried out in a coffin. but the fact is that this particular election, has always going to be a difficult one, we've been in power for 14 years. i am a real conservative. i remain a conservative, and i believe in conservative values and principles, i do not believe that anybody else could have and nobody else did get the referendum through and get the leaving of the european union through parliament in the way in which the conservative party did. but i must say, at the moment we are apparently well behind in the polls. i think they're narrowing, and i think

they're narrowing, and i think they're narrowing, and i think they're narrowing because the more light that is shone on keir starmer, the more uncertain people are . and if you look at people are. and if you look at the turnout in elections , the the turnout in elections, the fact is that if there is a fairly substantial turnout and people have on the day of the election itself, and i've fought ten general elections, ten so i can say this with a bit of, experience , people sit down the experience, people sit down the night before at breakfast that day and they say, the family, what are we going to do now? and i think when they really ask themselves , what are they going themselves, what are they going to do? i think a lot of people are going to come back to the conservative party because basically reform are not going to be able to win seats, so voting for reform is, is, in my opinion , going to lead to, opinion, going to lead to, a landslide for labour. and as far as the labour party is concerned, a lot of people are having second thoughts. keir starmer's policies don't add up.

and i think that we're right to say they don't really have a plan for anything. >> all right. well, sir bill cash, thank you very, very much. and i do hope that your political retirement means that you've got more time to turn up on my other shows as well, that i do here, because i would love to have you. and we are bang out of time, i'm afraid. but i do have enough time to say a massive thank you to my wonderful panel this evening. angela knight, former conservative mp and economic secretary to the treasury bill rammell as well. former labour mp, minister to the armed forces, amongst other things, a norman baker as well, former lib dem mp and home office minister. thank you very much to all my guests tonight as well . just guests tonight as well. just a little reminder, i will be back for hopefully another brilliant show at 9 pm, including a whopping great big exclusive for you right at the top . so make you right at the top. so make sure that you sat down there at 9 pm. with your popcorn ready. it is probably, i think, going to be leading the news agenda, certainly on saturday, possibly into sunday. so you will not want to miss it. but mark dolan is with you next for friday night live .

night live. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers, sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello. very good evening to you . here's your latest gb news you. here's your latest gb news weather update brought to you by the met office. there will be a bit of rain around at times this weekend, and also some cloud, but for many a decent amount of fine dry and sunny weather because of an area of high pressure that's building in from the west. any rain that we saw today across the southeast that's now clearing away. so a dry picture here. however, we are going to see some cloud pushing its way in from the east across eastern parts of england. as we go through the night further north, some spots of rain across parts of scotland, perhaps northern ireland too, but most places staying dry. some clear skies , especially some clear skies, especially towards the west, under which temperatures will just about dip into single figures, perhaps a little bit lower than that across parts of scotland. so a chilly start here for some. otherwise, as we go through saturday morning and it is going to be quite cloudy across parts of the southeast, and we do need

to watch out for a few showers , to watch out for a few showers, and some of these could turn heavy as we go into the afternoon. much sunnier further west though some cloud building as we go through the day. a few spots of rain, then for parts of northern ireland, perhaps northern england, southern scotland where the clouds are thick enough. but for many it is going to be a dry picture and there will be some sunshine for some. not all of us. some of us will be stuck under a bit of cloud, particularly across parts of northern england, the far south of scotland. here the cloud is likely to linger through a big chunk of the day and we could see a few showers developing as well, even elsewhere , 1 or 2 showers are elsewhere, 1 or 2 showers are possible, but any that do develop will be pretty light and short lived, and most of us will avoid them. there will be a decent amount of sunshine for most of us. however and with lighter winds than today, it should feel pleasant enough. temperatures generally in the high teens or low 20s, perhaps some mist and fog patches first thing on sunday morning, and then we are going to see some cloud and some drizzly rain pushing its way in from the northwest. some of that rain could turn a little bit heavier as we go into the afternoon.

however, towards the south, across many central southern parts, it's going to be largely sunny and feeling pretty warm with that sunshine to some more changeable weather to come next week. enjoy your weekend! >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening. from the world headquarters of gb news. this is friday night live with mark dolan. the weekend starts here, so bring your own drinks. the admission is free. and let's be honest, there's an election going on, so we need a drink on tonight's show. is this election campaign the most boring in history? our opinion polls are scam. will the outcome of the election be decided in a tv studio? and has a democrat supporting us court just made donald trump president again ? donald trump president again? should donald trump already buy new curtains for the white house? presumably wide red curtains like that tie of his well, to fight out over those topics and many more. tonight, my friday, a team . the wisest my friday, a team. the wisest young person in britain. maybe

the only wise person