paying our respects. also tonight, roll up, roll up. free social care for the elderly. everybody if we win, say the lib dems. sounds good, right .7 but is dems. sounds good, right.7 but is it realistic? also, dems. sounds good, right? but is it realistic? also, there's lots of talk, right now about political revolts. so i'm asking you, what do you think is actually now the party of the working class , if any at all? working class, if any at all? also, we're told it's the immigration election. we're being promised zero net

migration from one party caps by another. and so on and so forth. who is actually going to fix this issue and . how? also, this issue and. how? also, tonight's happy discussed milkshakes . who do you reckons milkshakes. who do you reckons had one thrown right in their face before we get stuck into it all, let's cross live to the legend that's polly middlehurst for tonight's 6:00 news. >> the top story tonight. rishi sunakis >> the top story tonight. rishi sunak is facing another blow in his general election campaign, as gb news can reveal that up to six conservative candidates could switch to reform uk. it follows nigel farage's decision to stand as a reform candidate himself and lead the party. the candidates, including at least one former mp in the last parliament, are in a race against time to make up their minds before the nomination deadune minds before the nomination deadline on friday. one of the

candidates weighing up whether or not to jump to reform uk, told us their mind could be made up told us their mind could be made ”p by told us their mind could be made up by rishi sunak's performance in tonight's leaders debate with sir keir starmer. meanwhile, in essex , a 25 year old woman has essex, a 25 year old woman has been arrested on suspicion of throwing a milkshake over nigel farage, where the reform uk leader has been campaigning. the party chairman, richard tice , party chairman, richard tice, says they will not be bullied, while the conservatives and labour have both called it unacceptable. it comes just hours before we see rishi sunak and sir keir starmer go head to headin and sir keir starmer go head to head in the first televised debate of the general election campaign this evening. the economy, migration, defence and security will likely be points of contention . yesterday, of contention. yesterday, a yougov poll suggested labour's on course for a historic landslide, with a 194 seat majority well elsewhere on the campaign trail. liberal democrats have been promoting their plans for social care, while the conservatives are pledging to give votes mps a vote rather on the number of

migrants who'll be allowed uk visas. but the home secretary, james cleverly, has refused to confirm the exact cap they'd put on worker and family visas if the conservatives return to power. >> if we are returned to government , we have committed to government, we have committed to a scheme to cap the level of work related visas . the work related visas. the migration advisory committee will crunch the numbers to balance the economic needs of the country against the pressure on public services, and suggest to the government a level james cleverly , now the labour leader, cleverly, now the labour leader, sir keir starmer says the conservatives are responsible for the rising numbers of migrants . migrants. >> the conservatives have let immigration get out of control. we've got record numbers of people coming to this country and they've now said they're going to have a visa cap, they've not said what the number is, so they've got a visa cap without a cap , we is, so they've got a visa cap without a cap, we did is, so they've got a visa cap without a cap , we did have is, so they've got a visa cap without a cap, we did have a visa cap before. rishi sunak. are you to get rid of it, which

they did in 2020. and now they're going back to it. but without a number, it is utter chaos coming as more than 200 migrants arrived in the uk on small boats this morning. >> now major hospitals in london have declared a critical incident after a cyber attack. it's led to the cancellation of operations and the loss of blood transfusions for patients. staff at king's college hospital and guy's and saint thomas's, including the royal brompton and their primary care services, have all been told their sites have all been told their sites have been hit by a major incident. some sources telling senior representatives within the nhs that it is indeed a ransomware attack . now a group ransomware attack. now a group of british veterans has arrived in france to take part in commemorations marking the 80th anniversary of the normandy landings. earlier, there was an raf fly—past and crowds waving flags gathered on harbour walls in portsmouth as they set off for france . they're carrying for france. they're carrying a commemorative torch with them from the commonwealth war graves

commission, which will form the centrepiece at a vigil tomorrow. george chandler, who was on board a torpedo boat on d—day, told gb news how it's affected him. >> i was 19 at the time. these kids were younger than me. i know they were. every time i talk to somebody about d—day , talk to somebody about d—day, i'm there . i'm there. >> for the latest stories, do you sign up to gb news alerts , you sign up to gb news alerts, scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts . alerts. >> thank you very much for that, polly , i am michelle dewberry. polly, i am michelle dewberry. this is dewbs& co and we're with you until 7:00 tonight alongside me, my panel , the former me, my panel, the former conservative mp sir bill cash and the labour life peer lord glassman. two brand new faces to the show tonight, gents. you are indeed very welcome, as are each and every one of you at home

tonight. wherever you're watching or listening, you can get in touch all the usual ways. you can email me gb views @gbnews. com you can of course go to the website gbnews.com/yoursay and get in touch there. or of course you can go on to twitter or x and reach me there, wherever you are. as i said, you're very, very welcome. but i will start by just picking up on that last story from the headlines there. of course, the anniversary, the 80th anniversary, i should say, of d—day is almost upon us. we've had some fantastic scenes today as veterans have departed from portsmouth and crossed the channel over to france , and i'll channel over to france, and i'll be playing some of this footage as we discuss , but, sir, bill as we discuss, but, sir, bill cash, i want to bring you in first, because you've got a wonderful story, actually, about your father. tell us more . yes, your father. tell us more. yes, i was born actually, on the 10th of may, 1940, the day that hitler invaded france and holland. and actually, churchill became prime minister. by 1944,

my father had been doing his training in the royal artillery and he was 25. >> and he went over your father on the screen. >> is my father there? indeed. and i can remember him because i think a photo shutter came down when he was killed , and i was when he was killed, and i was actually given the telegram by a postman, when it came through to her, my mother collapsed, you know, and it was completely shattered. and i, i apparently, according to my grandmother, i said to my mother , don't worry, said to my mother, don't worry, mummy, i'll look after you. oh, which is rather sweet, but i can only say that was what my grandmother told me. but the reality was that my father got the military cross, in the artillery, and he was fighting against the ss panzer division in the tiger tanks, around core and hill 112, and he won the military cross in malta. and i've got the letters from his other officers and the other men

who he loved, and they wrote he said he was a wonderful leader and he was op, which means he was at the front of the front of the front, and then he'd be in a tank or in a, in a, on a jeep. and he was directing the fire against these panzer tanks, which actually had the most amazing, armour. so which actually had the most amazing, armour . so anyway, they amazing, armour. so anyway, they were going to get the op one way or another because he's the person who was who was actually directing the artillery. and in fact just mentioned this. i'm going to d—day , the going to d—day, the commemorations tomorrow with the british legion. and i think the prime minister will be there. and the king, i'm not quite sure, but i believe so. but my interest is primarily to be with the men and i can only tell you this that i'm hoping to take with me and i've already arranged and we're trying to fix the arrangements now with somebody who puts roses on my father's grave because he's buned father's grave because he's buried at a place called sammelvuo, near cannes, and he

puts every single year he puts them there, and he arranged for them there, and he arranged for the little or not the little, but the village town of fontaine—etoupefour to have a community centre. and i was asked to go over with my wife, which i did, and actually, funnily enough, his sergeant was still alive at the age of 93, and i took him over and just to finish the story, we drove in through the gate into my wife turned to me and she said, have you seen that? and i thought i was having tea with the mayor. in fact, it was a community centre that they had built and called it the paul trevor cash. wow community centre. and it's up there now in fontenay four in normandy. what a story. >> there's your father again. i'll put him up on the screen . i'll put him up on the screen. it's paul. >> paul really honouring and his memory. this was our. these were amazing achievements. >> they were they were astonishing people. and i watched the war films. and

sometimes i think about the spitfire pilots, and, i mean, i know just down the road from us, because i lived in surrey, there was a squadron leader and his his son, who was called rollison. i remember the name even though i was only 4 or 5. it's amazing what effect it had. but these people were the ones who saved us. and i say to people, please remember this because they fought and died for our freedom and our democracy. and that is the key issue . and and that is the key issue. and we've got it back again. and i'll say that because i'm quite frankly, a very strong brexiteer as some people may have gathered, you know, i thought you was a remainer for a second. >> you're not alone, are you? >> you're not alone, are you? >> no, i got to say as well, look, you're seeing on the screen, some of these veterans on that ferry, going over to france and, you know , you see france and, you know, you see them and they were passing over some reefs over the side, obviously, in memory of some of their colleagues who unfortunately , we were not able unfortunately, we were not able to make that crossing and just the immersion in that. so many

of those veterans still feel all these years on, and you listen to some of their stories and they will talk about the fact they will talk about the fact they were just 18 years old. some of these people, you know, i mean , you think about anyone i mean, you think about anyone that's got teenage children or grandchildren, but just cast your mind back, even to when you was 18, to be faced, as you're saying, at the very , very front saying, at the very, very front line. it makes me go all goose pimplv line. it makes me go all goose pimply . and of course, there was pimply. and of course, there was a torch being passed, today as well, to signify essentially the legacy and passing that legacy of, remembrance and respect through the generations and this is one of the challenges, because these people have sacrificed so much, and many of them, of course, sacrificed their tomorrow. so we could have our today. and we've got to and that's why i decided there's so much political tittle tattle going on. and we'll come to that, don't worry. but i just wanted to start the program just with a nod of respect, of course, to people like your father and all of the other veterans and absolutely, that's

been kind of affected by these stories. and i think long may the conversations continue. >> and we'd be governed by the nazis now if they hadn't won with the americans and the others , we might their name be others, we might their name be remembered forever. >> we've got to keep the torch alive in our hearts and in our culture. >> we really do. i've got to say as well, that one of my viewers has got in touch and said, hang on, michel, let me just get this straight. whilst we've had those veterans, those heroes crossing the channel, please don't tell me simultaneously we've had the dinghies crossing the opposite direction. well, i've just, you know, you've been hearing in the news we have indeed had lots of crossings again today. we'll come on to that. perhaps, slightly later in the programme, but for now, thank you for your contributions on that. keep your thoughts on that topic coming in. but i do want to touch on politics today, let's cross live to christopher. hope he can bnng to christopher. hope he can bring us up to speed with the goings on on the campaign trail today. i believe that you're in salford . salford. >> hi, michelle. yeah, great to

be on your show again. yeah i'm in salford here, the home of coronation street , the longest coronation street, the longest serving soap. one of the longest serving soap. one of the longest serving soaps in the world. televised soaps, of course, made here in manchester. well we'll here in manchester. well we'll here for a different kind of drama tonight. a battle between rishi sunak and sir keir starmer. who will be the best prime minister in the election one month ago from today in july. today's been quite quiet day on the election trail because all of these two main party leaders have been getting ready for what will be a make or break session in front of the millions of viewers at 9 pm. on itv , but don't despair. gb news itv, but don't despair. gb news is here in the in the spin room. we'll be talking to ministers, shadow ministers, ministers going into the debate and then coming out of it. so make sure you can be with us all the way till nine, maybe be aware or follow it on twitter, but also watch gb news and then make sure you're following all the action from the spin room here, big. the big issue for rishi sunak. he's so far behind the polls, michelle, he's going to take a

lot of risk here, sir keir starmer, he's got his ming vase strategy. the ming vase, of course, is his poll lead he's had from maybe a year or two now. anything he says might wreck that. and really, i think mr sunak has got to go all in to convince voters why they shouldn't risk everything . on shouldn't risk everything. on sir keir starmer being prime minister. that's the intention. i think in a sense rishi sunak can't get too keen, he can't be trying to interrupt too much like he did with liz truss back in 2022. in those tory leadership elections back then, he was called accused of mansplaining against liz truss by being like kind of a preppy head boy . he's got to be more head boy. he's got to be more headmasterly, more authoritative to convince voters that don't risk all the kind of concern over the next five years with the uncertain world on an untried person like sir keir starmer. so they've been quite quiet for the main two main parties, but the noises have been elsewhere . we've seen, of been elsewhere. we've seen, of course, nigel farage, he's been in clacton , where he'll be in clacton, where he'll be standing as an mp at the general election. he had a milkshake thrown over him, then the person

who did that has been held by the police as we speak. and of course, i was back there for his last milkshaking in may in 2019, when he was on the brexit party bus and he was very shaken up. i think it's very, very serious. lots of people on social media, his critics are laughing about it. it's not funny having things thrown at you in any part of pubuc thrown at you in any part of public life. you don't know what's being what's being thrown at. you could be acid or some corrosive instance. difficult. but of course the lib dems too. they've unveiled plans for social care by taxing bankers. but we're hearing more about that shortly in the programme. yeah. >> chris hope, thank you very much for that. and he just gave it away. ladies and gents , i was it away. ladies and gents, i was asking you, who do you think managed to get milkshake today? he just told you, i'll show you some footage of that a little bit later on. but before i do the lib dems, they are promising day after day on that political campaign trail. let's look, we also need to invest in social care. >> these are the care workers who are paid . we need to make who are paid. we need to make sure they get a decent minimum wage. and we're saying £2 an hour above the national wage. at

least because we need more people to be supported in care, to look after loved ones who are either waiting to be discharged from hospital, or so they don't have to go into hospital. if we do that, we rescue our nhs . do that, we rescue our nhs. >> herm morris look, if i had a pound for every single time in the run up to an election campaign that someone's wheeled out, this conversation about social care, promising, we're going to do this, we're going to do that, we're going to do the other. nobody ever does anything. the situation never gets resolved and the messages continues for years to come. however notwithstanding that, do you think that this solution is the one that finally sorts it all out? >> no , not at all, you're right. >> no, not at all, you're right. remember in 2017, bill, theresa may ran on lose your mind, lose your home. it was a catastrophe. she tried to engage with the conversation about the cost of social care, and it nearly killed you. i mean, and if that election had gone on, jeremy corbyn would be prime minister. precisely on that issue . we're precisely on that issue. we're not capable of it. there's only

one merit. i really am reluctant to acknowledge any merit in the liberal democrats . but i'll do liberal democrats. but i'll do one thing, which is this royal college of carers is that we treat carers despicably they're on short term contracts, they're really badly paid and it needs to be understood that those people who care for our parents, it's a vocation and a calling and it should be treated as a vocation . that's the one aspect vocation. that's the one aspect of this. but to talk to people about free social care is, i think, irresponsible . think, irresponsible. >> do you think more of us should be caring for our own parents? >> well, that's the key, i think. i agree with that. is intergenerational family life. i think it should be much easier to build more rooms and caring facilities in your house. i think the planning laws should be absolutely changed and that's where the investment should go in. so that families can care for their parents. this is a fundamental issue and not this institutional care. and in covid, we actually got a glimpse of what life is like in some of these care homes. and it was

horrendous. bill. >> yes, i, i very much agree with what lord glassman said. and also there is a problem to that. sadly we hear too many stories about abuse of elderly people in care homes, which are very, very serious problems indeed.i very, very serious problems indeed. i don't think that just throwing money at it and there's no costing with this proposal at all that i'm aware of, so i'm not sure that it's being costed out. the motivation may well be understandable, but the real question is frankly, whether, as we said just now , and i'm sure we said just now, and i'm sure we'd agree about this, that the elderly people should be looked after primarily by their families. i mean, i'm 84 now and i mean, okay, so i've been lucky in my life , but some people have in my life, but some people have not. and i know people , for not. and i know people, for example, who've got elderly relations, who've got serious

dementia. i know heroics that are going on, heroics, looking after people who, when their parents can't cope and they they have lost their touch with their families because of their mental condition or that wonderful rob burrow issue that we looked at yesterday as well. that was amazing. that man's courage . but amazing. that man's courage. but many people are not given that degree of courage . and the fact degree of courage. and the fact that the parents who get dementia or whatever are looked after or not looked after by their parents is a real social issue and we have to address it. >> we certainly do. and i'm glad you mentioned rob burrow, because there was a really poignant message that he wanted to be played after he had passed away, and i'll bring that to you before the end of the programme. but i just want to say on the costings for this lib dem plan, he says there's going to be a ed davey says there's going to be an estimated £2.7 billion cost by 2028 2029. he says they would

fund that by, i quote, reversing the tax cuts given to big banks by the conservatives, he says , by the conservatives, he says, look, i just want to say lots and lots of you are getting in touch about that first conversation about the d—day, about the veterans. many of you really appreciating that, duncan says. my son served nine years with tours in iraq and afghanistan, but very sadly, we lost him to ptsd in 2021, he says. when i watched gb news just now about the veterans, i get upset, he says. but i also feel so, so proud. we must neven feel so, so proud. we must never, ever forget what all those heroes have done for us, he says . we owe our way of life he says. we owe our way of life to them all. hey, hey, to that. it's actually made me feel very emotional that. duncan, i'm really sorry to hear that your son didn't get the help and care that he needed. we really do sometimes feel our veterans in this country and i think that is one of our great nation's shames . anyway, look, there's lots that i want to talk to you about

after the break, who do you think is the party now that suppons that supports the class people? is there one

people. hello, everybody. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 here on dewbs & co alongside 7:00 here on dewbs& co alongside me tonight . two new faces to the me tonight. two new faces to the programme. i have the former conservative mp sir bill cash and the labour life peer, lord glassman . welcome back glassman. welcome back everybody. before the break, we started the programme reflecting on the anniversary of d—day, 80 off anniversary, one of my viewers, duncan, got in touch and said about his son that served nine years, tours of afghan and iraq. very sadly, he says he died, due to ptsd in 2021. it really touched me. it did. and it spurred a conversation actually, during the break, sir bill cash, i mean, that is a really upsetting, very upsetting thing. >> it is.

>> it is. >> do you think the conservatives have done enough for veterans in this country? >> well, johnny mercer stands out . he was actually rather out. he was actually rather rebellious as a minister standing up for the veterans against all the, establishment, if i can put it that way round. and my great friend mark francois, who, by the way, his own father was actually in normandy on d—day, believe it or not, both of them have fought very, very strongly for the veterans who are quite often as it was, in fact, after the war as well, in the second world war, abandoned after they'd done an amazing heroism and this really upsets me, and i'm afraid that it's reflection, in my opinion, of a sense of moral compassion which people seem to have, lost, which i think was much more who's lost the sense of moral compassion. >> well, i think it's the people who believe that institutional care can substitute.

>> it goes back to the conversation we had earlier about social care, families and communities, the british legion that the veterans societies, they constantly remind us of the fact that these people have, in fact, done immensely valuable service to the country, and they need to be supported. that is my absolute conviction. but they're not getting that. but i don't think they are getting enough. no, they're not. >> i think a big issue here, bill, is that we're becoming an increasingly contractual society. so when the contracts oven society. so when the contracts over, when you leave the army, but that kind of service is covenantal . that's what i mean. covenantal. that's what i mean. it goes through the generations. >> i agree with that. >> i agree with that. >> and that's the essential thing that we have to capture here. and the abandonment of these soldiers is unbelievable. the army is despicable. and we're all responsible here. you know , there's got to be i really know, there's got to be i really respect what johnny mercer has done. there's been moves also on the labour side. >> but johnny mercer, if he was here, i'm sure that he would actually say he doesn't feel

like he was. perhaps supported enough. >> he would certainly say that he wasn't supported because the government is contractual, utilitarian and merciless, and they don't have this sense of moral compassion . and i'm not moral compassion. and i'm not going to pretend that it would be like that under labour either in this, in this case. but this is an issue that we have to work together across parties and across. it becomes too much of a tick box society. >> that's the problem. whereas in fact, i mean, but it goes even. >> it goes even deeper once you've left the army, then they have no obligation to you. and thatis have no obligation to you. and that is completely wrong. >> well, we found this from reports that we've seen, and i think it's been going on for generations and even went on after the second world war, went on after the first world war and the first world war that had. >> yeah, i can never understand it, but it's absolutely i do. >> i said before the break, i think it's one of our nation's shames, the way we treat veterans. i mean, you can walk down the high street. i would probably argue in most major cities, and you will see at least one person, who describes themselves as a veteran on the

streets of britain. you often see them now with their army numbers, because unfortunately, as well, i've got to say, there is also quite a lot of, despicable people that pretend to be veterans to try and muster up sympathy from helpful, kind, decent people as well. i do not, like that at all. >> and could i just. michelle, you can add another point, which is post—traumatic disorder , if is post—traumatic disorder, if that's the correct expression, ptsd, post—traumatic stress. this is this is an actual consequence of being in war. these brave people go in there and some people are luckily not affected as much as others are. but when they are affected , they but when they are affected, they need to be protected and looked after. >> but i just want to say, when you talk about consequences of being in war, i have to say, i really do wish that politicians of all stripes would pack it in, leading us into unnecessary wars. we always seem to be stoking the fires in pretty much any conflict we never seem to be leading the charge. how do we

de—escalate things? how do we create peace? we seem to be desperately wanting to poke our nose into everyone's affairs all over the place. >> well, you've got a fight. and the second world war is an example of that, where we absolutely. there was a lot of talk like yours. why can't we have peace with hitler? why can't appeasement neville chamberlain, munich, munich 1939. you know, speak for england. we i mean, in this case, labour. oh, come on. absolutely. bring it to present day. >> we're pumping billions into ukraine to prolong that conflict. what does the end of that conflict look like? no one even seems to know the answer to that. >> talk about that. we pump billions. >> well, not billions, perhaps at this stage into funding israel. that situation there in gaza. so i'm not talking about the dark days of world war. >> if i could just intervene for a second, actually , the problem a second, actually, the problem in the case of the second world war and the first world war, and again in relation to the israeli war, is that there are people

who start wars and there that is the problem. and war is tragic. i remember famous poet talking about the pity of war. yes. it's tragic and it is absolutely appalling the consequences. but but it's the people who create the circumstances in which war becomes a matter of necessary self—defence. and that is the problem . it's a very complex problem. it's a very complex question, and we don't want to overlook the fact that sometimes war is necessary as a matter of self—defence. >> and i'm absolutely prepared to reach out to engage with, with you about ukraine on this, because i think that that is a very frightening prospect of, of, of russian domination , which of, of russian domination, which which is absolutely contrary to democracy and liberty, just as hitler did in relation to the. but the w.h. auden poem do not say with such great zest to a young man ardent for distant glory. dulce et decorum est pro patria mori. we mustn't glorify

war. that's completely right. yeah, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't fight, i saw the scenes outside of the eiffel tower. actually vie, macron. i think he was hinting perhaps , at think he was hinting perhaps, at french soldiers potentially getting involved on the front line in ukraine. i don't know if anyone saw the stunt. i mean, you can call it whatever you want. actually, of all those coffins that was displayed at the bottom of the eiffel tower, they'd been , kind of the french they'd been, kind of the french flag had been draped over them and it had been inscribed with this is essentially the french ukrainian soldiers. is that what you want for those people to be on the front line in that war? i shall leave it to you guys if you think if the final sale that there aren't british soldiers in ukraine, you'd be mistaken. yeah, well, there you go. what do you think to that? that's a conversation we could, carry on and on and on. but there's other m atters. matters. >> i'm willing to have that conversation. >> we're always willing to have the tough conversations. but i think there's a really important conversation that we need to have in this country at the moment, which is when it comes to, i would say, one of the key

players in this next election outcome as to, who's going to go where and who's going to hold how much power. i would say that sits in the hands of the working class. there'll be many people, you will perhaps describe yourself as that watching this program, who will you vote for? who do you feel is that party that that represents you? one of my viewers. i said, can you just start this conversation right at the beginning by defining what the beginning by defining what the working class is. >> well, working class people are people who depend on a wage for their living and on the whole have to leave the house and go out to work. we found out in covid, you know, there was a whole class of people who could do their work from home on zoom. no. not them. it's the people who had to leave the house and do things for other people. and that's working class. that's my working class. >> do you agree with that definition? >> i think i think there's a lot of truth in it. and i would like to say, as a conservative, that actually the conservative party in the 19th century actually began to think very hard about the working class. my own family

included somebody called john bright, who was actually a liberal statesman, and he was dedicated to the working class and the first political organisation that i belong to was what is now regarded as a rather archaic organisation. it's been disbanded since called the primrose league, the primrose league was the essence of conservative working class people and lord randolph churchill founded an organisation in the 1880s. and do you know how many members it had by the year? two to, 1900, 2.5 million people. and most of them are what people would regard as working class. the thing is, it was about values and it was about giving people democracy, giving them freedom and improving their condition. and i want to pay tribute actually to those who created the cooperative movement, because that was also part of it. and i if i may be allowed to

say so, we, my family founded the abbey national building society that was a mutual, the national provident, both of which were aimed not at they were in mutuality , not just were in mutuality, not just profit. and so this attitude , profit. and so this attitude, which i've been describing in this program to me, is terribly important . this program to me, is terribly important. it's about this program to me, is terribly important . it's about not this program to me, is terribly important. it's about not just being focused on your own personal, improve moment. it's about trying to help other people as well. it's a community effort, and the whole of the working class question, which many people don't talk about now, does require serious attention, but i think it's a bit rich , actually, if i may say bit rich, actually, if i may say so. for some politicians to get out there and say, oh, it's the fault of the conservative party. absolute nonsense. covid, for example , and the amount of money example, and the amount of money 400 billion, as i understand it, was paid in order to protect people during that period only because the tories took the decision to close the economy

down. well, i think that's a very big issue, which we probably haven't got time to go in for now. i mean, i was living through it like you were, and people can have different views about this. what i can say . about this. what i can say. >> but i just think when people say, oh, the tories, we, we gave you such a safety net. and by the way, there'll be many self—employed people who will say that they were part of the excluded group that got nothing, but anyway, the conservatives will say we helped all of the working people, but that help was only necessary because a decision was taken to literally close down the entire economy without seemingly in my mind, anyway, much consideration for the consequences on intended albeit of that decision. >> well, i think a lot of people would also argue that nobody really understood what covid was until it had actually taken off. and when it did take off, the consequences for a lot of people who died in circumstances because was nobody really understood exactly how the disease was being transmitted, did lead to a lockdown , which did lead to a lockdown, which some people do disagree with. other people regard it as

essential. >> yeah, i know, but i would just argue that once you've locked the country down and then you reopen it again and up it p0ps you reopen it again and up it pops again, perhaps repeating that cycle over and over again is not necessarily the most fruitful look after the break. i do want to carry this conversation on because maurice, he's got some very important points that he wants to make on this topic. i'm absolutely sure of it. nigel farage as well, he has been speaking out about the needs for a political revolt , needs for a political revolt, also as well. i want to look, i don't want to trivialise it anymore by calling it a milkshaking. i'll call it an assault. actually nigel farage having a milkshake thrown in his face. i want to look at that. and i also want to explore comments that you made many years ago that caused some problems for you, where you said that the labour party should essentially embrace supporters of movements like the edl. let's explore that. is that what needs to happen in modern day politics? i'll see you in two.

hello there. welcome back. michelle dewberry. all seven former conservative mp sir bill cash and labour life peer lord glassman, alongside me. i want to carry on this conversation. then who is actually now the party for the working class, if indeed there's any party for them? you might even say that there is not. you said some comments a few years ago where i mean, because many people will say you were one of the architects of what became known as blue labour, you were then saying that you should, as a party, extend arms to people like supporters of the edl, etc. it caused you a lot of trouble, didn't it, a lot of trouble was obviously polarised and misunderstood. but my point was, if you abandon and hate working class people and don't address the concerns that they have about their lives , then you're about their lives, then you're no longer a labour party . you're no longer a labour party. you're no longer a labour party. you're no longer a socialist party. i mean, all over europe in the 30s, they did this popular front getting together the communists,

socialists, the liberals against the fascists, and it failed in every single case. and the labour movement , my party, the labour movement, my party, the tradition that i work within, is an absolutely unique and fantastic thing . so what bill fantastic thing. so what bill was talking about the cooperatives, the burial societies, so they're working class people wouldn't be abandoned to a pauper's grave that they built. a dignity of death was a reflection of the dignity of their labour and their lives and that's spread to other areas to educate on to the issue of mutual support and insurance as well massively important aspect. but it's a long story, michelle. over a penod long story, michelle. over a period of time, we just talked about d—day, an enormous point of pride for my party is that when the british people voted in 1945, they had no hesitation about supporting attlee and bevin and those who worked in what must be the greatest government bill, which was the war cabinet, which which was an

astonishing government with churchill and attlee and bevin and morrison and so, so my party grew out of the working class for the working class of and it was a mixture of conservative and radical. now, what's happened over the years is that increasingly the policy people and people like me, academics and people like me, academics and intellectuals, took it over. so it lost its distinctive, paradoxical form by which i mean that it became more and more liberal and progressive, which led to an estrangement. and we saw that when i was talking, i was talking after the new labour government, which assumed that the working class didn't matter. and brown was part of that. yeah. >> well, this is gillian duffy bigot comment. yeah. >> so i was i was saying don't despise an abandoned working class people. they are our leaders. they are our hope and they are the hope. >> it's absolutely sensible what you said. >> yeah. so i wasn't talking about talking to the leads. i was saying if there's edl supporters, you've got to engage them and you've got to engage

people in building a broad based coalition. and if you do that, you have a much better politics. now, the issue in this election has been going on is that all the assumptions of globalisation are false. they assume that nafion are false. they assume that nation states didn't matter. they assumed that technology would erode borders. they and they assumed that working class people didn't matter, that they we had to go for look , when we had to go for look, when i 1979, when i went to university, 8% went to university, 50% did vocational training. now, 8% do vocational training. now, 8% do vocational training. now, 8% do vocational training of 50. it's all wrong. you've got to honour work. you've got to honour the people in covid you were talking about. there was one moment at the beginning where suddenly the invisible became visible, where people started applauding, bus drivers, applauding shelf stackers . what happened to that? stackers. what happened to that? that insight. suddenly we recognise how we depend on the nhs workers and people who go out to work for their living. well, this is very important. don't hide behind this because on my website my view is are getting in touch with myself and

each other. >> many people are saying the party that represents the working class is reform. >> do you know i don't subscribe to that. actually, i'm afraid this is this is a misunderstanding of what's going on.and misunderstanding of what's going on. and if i just made just briefly give you a personal insight, i was, as i said, i'm 84. i was brought up in the post—war period . we'd been post—war period. we'd been bombed and all that, and my father had been killed and we moved to sheffield. and when i was in sheffield , we actually was in sheffield, we actually had, i grew up and i used to play had, i grew up and i used to play cricket and rugby and i used to play with miners and steelworkers. i had real love for these people, the miners, and that's what led me to end up as being one of the advocates of the miners . during the miners the miners. during the miners strike, i wasn't on the side of the num so much as the udm, but because i understood the nature of the work that they did and how important that was in society, it made me very, very

conscious and very supportive of the working class people that i used to grow up with. yeah, but in present day now , there is a in present day now, there is a huge amount of working class people that either a work votes because they feel entirely disenfranchised from the whole thing, quite frankly, or b they are desperate for an alternative. >> and they do see that a party like reform for example, would be the answer to their political prayers. well, there's talk about tory defections, perhaps over to that reform party as well. you've also seen the situation, of course, with lee anderson, but. well lee lee, of course, was a great friend of mine and still is, i hope, because he's a great man in his own way. >> and i say that i did say to him i was obviously unhappy that he moved across to reform. but let me just say this , actually, let me just say this, actually, i'm afraid that the question of what is going to happen in this general election is very much in the hands of some of the people who yet haven't made up their

minds and there are more of those than people might appreciate. and even if they've said they've made up their minds, just watch this space. because actually and i'm the polls haven't moved, though. >> well , the polls since the election. >> no, but if i'm what i'm about to say hasn't been explained as well as perhaps it could be. and it's very simple. if you want to change legislation to improve the lot of people, you have to be able to have a majority in the house of commons. if you don't have a majority in the house of commons. no, no, listen, if i may just say this, actually, we're talking about this general election and what's going to happen. my view is that brexit has actually achieved far more than people imagined , more than people imagined, because it's given back the freedom and self—government to the people of this country, so that when they vote, they can have their own mps, whether they're labour or conservative or any other party. but you have to have a majority in the house of commons to pass legislation. i'm afraid the reform have no prospect whatsoever, and it's very dangerous this well, if you

listen, people, if people wait a minute, if i may just finish, you have to produce a you have to have a majority to pass a single word of legislation . and single word of legislation. and i'm afraid that's not going to happen with reform. >> well, if you were to listen to nigel farage, he would say that it's essentially a done deal that the labour party have already won. so now he wants them to become the opposition? >> i think he's i think he's talking nonsense. >> it's good to have strong opinions on that. i tell you, we'll carry on. the conversation will break. i'm sure you will at home. let's continue it as well. in two minutes. i'll see you then. i also want to pay respect as well to rob burrow. we mentioned that at the start of the programme and i'll speak about immigration to see you.

hello, everybody. michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 alongside me. i've not kicked either of them out yet, so we're making good progress. everyone,

the former conservative mp, sir bill cash and the labour life peen bill cash and the labour life peer, lord glassman . lots of peer, lord glassman. lots of appreciation for you two tonight. i want to say one of my viewers. peter, i don't know if you're in scarborough or if scarborough is your surname, but he says, the labour party, so—called party of the working class, has a problem. they support people who do not work, have no intentions of working, and contribute absolutely nothing to a society . is that nothing to a society. is that fair? yeah. >> i mean, there's fairness to it. this is a long story, and i think the brexit is a crucial part. now we can actually be a sovereign polity , the politics sovereign polity, the politics is going to get more real. well, and this is how it's going to go. and this conversation is not happening at this election. but i just want to honour the memory of a dear friend of us both, frank field, who went to the funeral two weeks ago. yes and he was, you know, seriously thinking about the creation of mutuals . we're bringing back the mutuals. we're bringing back the contributory principle that's for social care, which we began with. that's also for and other aspects. and i think that's

really worth revisiting . so really worth revisiting. so labour has got to get closer and restore its relationship with working class people, that's for sure. >> and frank field is a great friend of mine and he was also a brexiteer. >> yeah, well there you go and you can decide whether or not you can decide whether or not you think that, if you are working class and you were once in the bosom of the labour party , can the newsreel back in there or has that ship sailed? give me your thoughts on that. also today i want to talk about something pretty serious, actually. nigel farage, he was in clacton, talking about his candidacy there. did you see what happened, some individual, they have apparently, someone's been arrested, so i need to be careful what i say, but someone launched a milkshake in his face. i can tell you now, i think that is pretty damn disgusting. however there are many people absolutely celebrating this on social media because, you guessed it, they dislike the politics of nigel farage. i say shame on all of you. that's our celebrating that we need better kind of politics. and we do, of course, live in a democracy. we are allowed to politically disagree. i also want to say in clacton there are

many candidates we've invited them onto. the programme should they so wish. here is a list of varne, i want to sue nepal from the labour party. giles watling from the tories, matthew binissalem from the lib dems , binissalem from the lib dems, nigel farage from reform uk, natasha upston from the green party. of course, that candidate list isn't finalised and may change. look, sir, bill cash mentioned a wonderful man at the start of this programme, rob burrow . he's very sadly passed burrow. he's very sadly passed away. you will be familiar with his story . he away. you will be familiar with his story. he made a statement that he wanted us to listen to after he's very sadly passed. here it is. >> i hope one day we find the cure and live in a world free of moeen ali. by the time that you watch this, i will no longer be . watch this, i will no longer be. here. i am just a lad from yorkshire who got to live out his dream of playing rugby league as the father of three young children , i would never

young children, i would never want any family to have to go through what my family and children have since my diagnosis . i children have since my diagnosis .i hope children have since my diagnosis . ihopei children have since my diagnosis . i hope i have left a mark on the disease. i hope he chose to live in the moment. i hope you find inspiration from the whole story . my final message to you story. my final message to you is whatever your personal battle , be brave and face it . every , be brave and face it. every single day is precious . don't single day is precious. don't waste a moment in a world full of adversity. we must still dare to dream . to dream. >> rob burrow god bless you and all of your loved ones. thank you gents for your company. god bless each of you also that's suffering with mnd. i'll see you tomorrow night. thank you . tomorrow night. thank you. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb

news. >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update. some rain to come for parts of the southeast and the far northwest, but otherwise clear skies will develop this evening and it's going to be a cold night. that's because this cold night. that's because this cold front is pushing south and eastwards through the rest of the evening, and behind it we've got much colder air arriving and clearer skies as well. so some rain for at first this evening across the southeast, but it will turn much drier through the night, and i think most of us will see a dry and clear night away from the far northwest, where frequent , quite heavy where frequent, quite heavy showers will continue to push in through the night. it's going to be a much fresher start to the day tomorrow. we could be down into the low single figures rurally and the higher single figures for many towns and cities, but there will be a fair amount of sunshine around, particularly across eastern areas. so eastern scotland could see a bright start to the day. but across the west there's a big difference. across scotland some frequent, very heavy,

possibly thundery showers. there's a risk of some hail, possibly some hill snow across scotland as well. showers will continue to push into parts of northwest england, north wales as well, but the further south and east you are, the more likely you are to stay dry through wednesday and i think it will stay fairly bright, particularly across the south coast into eastern areas of england as well through the day, there is a risk of the odd shower developing into more central areas of wales, parts of the midlands, possibly by the afternoon, but it's really northern areas that will see the most frequent showers through wednesday. but they, for most of us it's going to be a much cooler day. temperatures only reaching 11 or 12 degrees across northern areas, 16 or 17 across the south. it will still feel fairly pleasant in the sunshine across the south, but for many of us, a cold north westerly breeze, and that will continue as we head into thursday. as well. another very similar day. a fresh start with showers moving in from the north and west. staying much drier though across the south and the east. still showers to come for northern areas on friday, but by

saturday it looks much drier and brighter and a little bit warmer. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening and welcome on tonight's show, as the tories announce a cap on migrant visas, i'll be joined by policing minister chris philp and. and ahead of tonight's leaders debate, labour's liz kendall . debate, labour's liz kendall. we'll also be discussing nigel farage being milkshaked on the campaign trail in clacton . campaign trail in clacton. imagery there of that quite shocking moment and we'll be speaking about labour's energy plans. will great british energy work ? this is vote 2020 for the work? this is vote 2020 for the people decide