gb news. >> good evening and welcome on tonight's show, as the tories announce a cap on migrant visas, i'll be joined by policing minister chris philp and. and ahead of tonight's leaders debate, labour's liz kendall . debate, labour's liz kendall. we'll also be discussing nigel farage being milkshaked on the campaign trail in clacton . campaign trail in clacton. imagery there of that quite shocking moment and we'll be speaking about labour's energy plans. will great british energy work .7 this is vote 2020 for the work? this is vote 2020 for the people decide .

people decide. lots to come on tonight's show. but first, here's the news with polly middleton first. >> camilla, thank you and good evening to you. well rishi sunak and sir keir starmer are going head to head tonight in the first tv debate of the general election campaign. the cost of living, migration and defence all expected to be points of contention tonight. and that comes as a yougov poll suggests labouris comes as a yougov poll suggests labour is on course for a historic landslide with a 194 seat majority . meanwhile, up to seat majority. meanwhile, up to six conservative candidates are reported to be weighing up whether or not to defect to reform uk. the candidates, including at least one former mp including at least one former mp in the last parliament, have to decide by friday when

nominations must be in. one told us that rishi sunak's performance in tonight's leader's debate with sir keir starmer will impact his decision . meanwhile, a 25 year old woman has been arrested on suspicion of assault after nigel farage had a milkshake drink thrown all over him. the new reform uk leader was leaving a pub in essex after launching his election campaign in clacton on sea. party chairman richard tice said reform won't be bullied, while the conservatives and labour have both roundly called it unacceptable behaviour . it unacceptable behaviour. elsewhere on the campaign trail, the liberal democrats have been promoting their plans for social care today and the conservatives are pledging to give mps a vote on the number of migrants who will be allowed uk visas. however the home secretary, james cleverly, has refused to confirm the exact cap they would put on worker and family visas if they get back into power. >> if we are returned to government, we have committed to a scheme to cap the level of

work related visas. the migration advisory committee will crunch the numbers to balance the economic needs of the country against the pressure on public services and suggest to the government a level. >> james cleverly meanwhile, the total number of illegal migrants who've arrived in the uk so far this year is now more than 10,500. that's up 38% on 2023. the labour leader, sir keir starmer, blames the conservatives for the rising numbers . numbers. >> the conservatives have let immigration get out of control. we've got record numbers of people coming to this country and they've now said they're going to have a visa cap. they've not said what the number is. they've got a visa cap without a cap. we did have a visa cap before. rishi sunak are you to get rid of it, which visa cap before. rishi sunak are you to get rid of it , which they you to get rid of it, which they did in 2020 and now they're going back to it. but without a number it is utter chaos. >> and that comes as more than 200 migrants arrived in the uk

on small boats this morning. now major hospitals in london have declared a critical incident after a cyber attack . it's led after a cyber attack. it's led to the cancellation of operations today and the loss of blood transfusions. staff at king's college hospital and guy's and thomas's, including the royal brompton, all been told their sites have been hit by what is being described by some as a ransomware attack . some as a ransomware attack. three injured military horses who bolted through central london during a training exercise in april are, we're told, making a remarkable recovery . now the army says recovery. now the army says trojan, tennyson and vanquish are all back on duty and are expected to take part in the trooping the colour ceremony next week. the remaining two injured horses, vida and quaker, are enjoying. let's call it a summer holiday. if you're watching on television, you can see them there in buttercup laden fields, but hoping to return to work soon. that's the news. for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts. scan

the qr code on the screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts. >> thanks for that, polly. well, welcome back to vote 2024 with me camilla tominey. lots to get through tonight we're going to be discussing immigration. we've had the tory plan for a migrant cap, although they won't give us a figure on what it should be capped to. we've also got labour saying that they'll bring down the numbers, but again they won't set a target. and we've got reforms suggesting that migration should be at net zero. so we'll be discussing all that a little later in the show. we're also going to be discussing, of course, nigel farage being milkshaked on the campaign trail in clacton. not the first time he's had a drink thrown at him. this was the scene there earlier today as a girl walked up to him, threw a milkshake and then walked away and we're of course, going to be discussing tonight's tv debate . discussing tonight's tv debate. and actually we'll cover all of those subjects and more, i hope with chris philp, who's the policing minister, he's the prospective tory candidate for

croydon south as well. chris, lovely to see you this morning . lovely to see you this morning. good evening. this evening. good evening camilla, i'm used to doing the show in the morning. my doing the show in the morning. my whole day's been discombobulated by being on screen , right. let's start. screen, right. let's start. first of all, farage might not be somebody that you particularly like or admire, but at the same time, he shouldn't be being attacked with a milkshake on the campaign trail, should he? >> no, he certainly shouldn't. no one running for elected office should be attacked like that. presumably by some kind of deranged leftie. you know, in the last nine years that i've been an mp, two of my colleagues, one labour, one conservative, have been murdered. so we have to take this seriously. the way we decide things in this country is through reasoned debate, discussion, argument, being questioned by by the media. we don't do politics by acts of violence, and throwing a milkshake at someone is just is one end of a spectrum that has a very, very dark end point. and that's why i'm very glad police have made arrests. we should have made arrests. we should have zero tolerance for that

kind of thing. >> it's worrying, isn't it? because that person got quite close. you all have to be out and about amongst the public. that's the whole point of an election campaign, right? you're shaking hands. you're cuddling the proverbial babies. you're knocking on doors. you are quite exposed in many ways. lucky it was milkshake in that cup, is what i'm saying, i suppose. chris. >> that's right. i mean, political candidates do expose themselves to the public as they should. i mean, the whole point of an election and the whole point of being in public service is to meet people the whole time, talk to people, listen. i always listen to people in croydon, what they're saying, and then take that obviously back to back to parliament. and that's why this kind of incident is troubling you know, i've seen another colleague, mike friar from finchley, had his constituency office burned down just a few months ago. who then who then decided to step down? that's right, can we talk about the farage factor? i mean, obviously the commentariat today andindeed obviously the commentariat today and indeed the polls seem to reflect this idea that it's going to be apocalyptic for the conservatives now to have nigel farage back in the hot seat for reform and running for that seat, it is difficult this ,

seat, it is difficult this, isn't it? i mean, you're being squeezed in the polls as it is. you had that disastrous mrp poll which suggests you're going to be reduced to 140 seats. that would be worse than in 1906. and yet that poll was conducted before farage announced his candidacy . candidacy. >> well, let's start with nigel farage. nigel farage, i think, has run for parliament now seven, eight times. i've lost track and has lost on every occasion. he, you know, ran in a similar way to this in 2015, didn't win a single seat when it was ukip. and i think most pollsters, most commentators would say that reform are not going to win a single mp in this election. >> so polling does suggest he's more popular with conservative voters than rishi sunak. that's a massive problem for you. >> well, the point i was going to make is that given that reform are not going to win any mps, if people are conservative minded, like as i am, then if anyone votes for reform, they are simply risking letting labour win. more and more mps , labour win. more and more mps, giving keir starmer the keys to number 10 downing street. and we know that keir starmer has

absolutely no interest whatsoever in controlling immigration. he's got no interest at all in personal liberty or controlling taxation and handing that point on immigration. >> when 2 million people have come into this country in the last parliament alone, under the conservatives, that was following a manifesto in 2019 which pledged to keep immigration down and take back control of our borders, we all remember that boris johnson esque slogan , what's happened? esque slogan, what's happened? i mean, this is why you're behind in the polls . it's one of the in the polls. it's one of the main reasons, isn't it? you fail to control immigration, both legal and illegal. >> well, firstly, on the on the numbers, many of those, for example, came from ukraine. that was a hundred thousand, couple of many from hong kong, fleeing the chinese communist party, who we welcomed here. but we do agree that immigration needs to go down a lot lower. and in fact, even before today's announcement, we took action last year to, for example, significantly raise the salary threshold you've got to earn before you can come here. we're saying that if you're coming to study or working on a social care visa, you can't bring spouses or dependents with you .

spouses or dependents with you. now, those measures will reduce the number of people eligible to come here by 300,000 a year. thatis come here by 300,000 a year. that is a huge reduction. and we're seeing that take effect already because in the first three months of this year, 2020 4th january, february, march , we 4th january, february, march, we saw the number of visa applications down by 25. so we've taken action already because immigration does need to because immigration does need to be a lot, lot lower. >> will rightly ask themselves, you know why are you having to undo your own policies? this has happened over the course of the last 14 years. okay. there's a statistic to suggest that in the 25 years leading up to 1997, you know, net migration is around 60, 70,000 a year. it's subsequently, in the next 25 years, gone up to 5.1 million. i think it is. that's 100 fold increase . we associate that with increase. we associate that with sort of tony blair's era, but the conservatives have continued it. that's one of the reasons you're being punished. i mean, why do you think, for instance, that rishi sunak, with everything that you've been announcing national service cap on migrant visas, tax cut in the

form of a national insurance reduction, why isn't it cutting through? why aren't the polls shifting for rishi sunak? >> well let's see, we're four weeks away from an election as i say on on the migration numbers we've taken like decisive action already. that's going to reduce it by 300,000. that's happening already on the boats. we said today, i think the first, if we're re—elected, the first rwanda flight is now firmly scheduled for the 24th of july. and we know the deterrent effect of sending people somewhere like rwanda does work. we saw it work in australia about ten years with their operation sovereign borders. so there is a clear plan, and i think as this election campaign unfolds , we're election campaign unfolds, we're right at the beginning of it now. we've got four weeks, i think just over four weeks to go. we will see movement . i go. we will see movement. i think the debate tonight is going to be important. people will see keir starmer has essentially no idea. he's got a blank sheet of paper. he will say whatever he thinks he needs to say to get elected. you saw him on that clip then claiming to be tough on immigration when as a as a left wing lawyer, he

was the one that was insinuating that immigration laws were somehow racist. it was the labour party who voted 139 times in the last parliament against our immigration laws. and let me finish and voting. >> then why not give a target? because you could have scored a win there against shadow home secretary yvette cooper, who on my show on sunday refused to put a target on it. and i think people watching and listening to this will say, well, if you don't put a target on it, then you can't control immigration. really. you need a kind of you can say to yourself, look, immigration is a good thing, but we've had too much of a good thing. therefore we're going to cap the numbers at, say, 200,000. why don't you put a cap on it and say what that cap is to give the public reassurance that you can control this issue? >> well, some numbers i can give are the measures we've taken already, the higher salary threshold, banning the dependents and spouses for students and for care workers. that's going to reduce the number by 300,000. so that's a firm number that your listeners and your viewers can take to the bank straight away. in terms of the new announcement, the cap, we're going to consult with the migration advisory committee

because we do need higher skilled. i think higher skilled people. it's reasonable to have them come in. so things like you know, doctors, it professionals, finance professionals, research scientists, those are the kind of people that i think we should be welcoming. we'll consult with the migration council to work out what the right number is. parliament will vote on it. they'll put a cap on it. that cap will reduce every single yeah cap will reduce every single year. but we need to go through that exercise to work out what it is. but the number you can take to the bank is the measures we've taken already. we've legislated for that in law already 300,000 reduction. and thatis already 300,000 reduction. and that is happening already as we speak. >> all right. chris philp, i'll let you get back to the good people of croydon south. >> i'm off there now to knock on some doors. >> good man. thank you very much indeed for joining >> good man. thank you very much indeed forjoining me this indeed for joining me this evening, so nigel farage is standing as reforms uk candidate in clacton. here is a full list of the people who have declared their candidacy in the constituency so far. we've got jovan owusu, nepal, who's for the labour party , natasha the labour party, natasha osborne, who is for the green party, giles watling is the conservative party candidate. matthew benson is for the liberal democrats and as i say ,

liberal democrats and as i say, that's the list of candidates. it's not finalised as the deadune it's not finalised as the deadline isn't until later this week. it will also be published on the gb news website once it is finalised. well, jonathan porter's, the professor of economics and public policy at king's college london, joins me now to discuss the immigration debate. professor, thank you for your time this evening . debate. professor, thank you for your time this evening. in general terms , do you agree that general terms, do you agree that legal migration is too high at the moment , legal migration is too high at the moment, no, i think it has been very high over the last couple of years. but as your previous guest said, that is partly temporary factors. refugees fees and the recovery after the pandemic, which led to shortages in various sectors. it is , as he and others have also is, as he and others have also said, and i pointed out now coming down very sharply, so you can, you know, you need to look at this over a period of several years, how the system works for the uk, its economy and society

as a whole. so, it is coming down of its own accord. it's natural that it should fluctuate up and down in recent years. but overall, we need immigration, it's for good the economy overall and in particular, the people who've coming over the last couple of years, most of them are , in fact, working. they them are, in fact, working. they contributed essentially all of the employment growth that we've seen since relative to before the pandemic, partly, of course, because we've had problems getting , you know, with sickness getting, you know, with sickness and disability on among people who are already here, so, they're boosting the economy. they're funding public services because they pay in more in tax revenue than they take out, and if we reduce immigration too sharply, we're, you know, the next government will be faced with a choice as how to respond to that. are they going to put up taxes or are they going to cut public services , professor, cut public services, professor, just explain that correlation between immigration and a boost to the economy, because there

are some that might argue that because growth has effectively flatlined for quite a long time now, and indeed, even the obr forecasts aren't particularly generous when it comes to future growth. for great britain. that's aligned with a large amount of immigration. i cited that figure of 2 million people having come into the country in the last parliament alone. so some people might say, well , some people might say, well, immigration doesn't equate to economic growth, but you'll probably argue there are other factors for that flatlining . factors for that flatlining. >> yeah, that's absolutely right. immigration is absolutely not a silver bullet. there are all sorts of other things going on, we've had a, frankly, a set of fairly incoherent and damaging economic policies over the past few years, but too sharp a cut in immigration certainly would, as the obr has also said, and the obr has quantified the impact it would have on growth, on the public finances and a very sharp cut in immigration, in their view, and indeedin

immigration, in their view, and indeed in mine , would lead to indeed in mine, would lead to this big hole in tax revenues. hence requiring, you know, tax rises or public service cuts. >> on the other hand, though, prof. there is an also cogent argument to suggest that if the obr bakes in that forecast of around 330,000 people coming into the country a year, and we haven't got the infrastructure to make up for that, we're not building enough houses and indeed there's already strains on the nhs, doctors and dentists appointments, then it's going to be difficult to sustain that level, well that's right. but and, but of course that 330,000 represents a pretty significant fall. so we have, as we discussed before, that fall is already , in some sense baked in. already, in some sense baked in. but remember, we have to pay for things like the nhs and we have to staff things like the nhs. and so for the nhs, for example, when you have young , relatively when you have young, relatively young migrants coming in who tend to work often in the nhs and care their, their , they're

and care their, their, they're putting more in to both the financing and the staffing of the nhs and they are taking out, in fact , we hadn't had that in fact, we hadn't had that large influx of people for the health and social care sector over the past couple of years. the whole thing really almost certainly would have fallen apart completely. >> okay, professor jonathan portus, thank you very much indeed for joining portus, thank you very much indeed forjoining me this indeed for joining me this evening. thank you. well, let's talk about the tv debate now, which is coming up in over an houn which is coming up in over an hour, about 90 minutes time. and let's bring into the conversation broadcasting legend and gb news own alastair stewart. big al, i hope you can hear me now. i know that you, of course, hosted the first ever tv debate back in 2010. we remember it for one phrase. well, at least i remember it for one phrase. i agree with nick, which was uttered three times by gordon brown. do you know what? i went back to the transcript and searched for it because i wanted to know how many times the then labour leader said it. in reference to this, clegg mania that developed after this particular debate. but what's your abiding memory of that

night? alastair >> my abiding memory of that night, ironically, is , dave night, ironically, is, dave cameron, who i knew quite well and have liked a long time. he used to work at carlton television, and at the back of my mind, i was utterly convinced that gordon would come out as the kind of quasi academic which he is. he was a brilliant young student at, nick, i didn't really know terribly much. but i expected gordon to be a bit cold and, inarticulate. and i was right on that. but dave looked to me to be quite frightened, whether it was because nick came on glowing with a kind of charisma , and gordon was charisma, and gordon was slightly more lively than than perhaps we'd all anticipated. but the other thing i'd underline, and i mentioned this to a number of people, is the day after i remember. i to a number of people, is the day afteri remember. i agree day after i remember. i agree with nick, his rating and that of the liberal democrats shot up. but on polling day itself,

it was about where it was immediately before this debate, which folk at home watching on television are seeing, and those listening on radio, i hope, are heanng listening on radio, i hope, are hearing . the other thing, just hearing. the other thing, just while we look at that image is there was a fantastic audience there, and about 11 of them had questions to ask on the economy, on housing, on defence, china was a fascinating issue in that debate. and look at what's happening now, what we didn't do. and i think adam boulton on sky and david dimbleby on the bbc also regretted it is we didn't have enough direct action from the audience like you and i do on gb news people's forum , do on gb news people's forum, like i did with rishi and liz when we did the leadership hustings, and if julie etchingham has licensed to do a bit of that, it can really come alive and it can be a game changen >> very briefly , alastair, who's >> very briefly, alastair, who's your money on tonight? who do your money on tonight? who do you think will fare best in this format? >> i my money quietly, although

i am professionally impartial, is on rishi because i think that when i've watched them very closely on all of the coverage that you and chris and other colleagues have done so brilliantly out on the stump, i think rishi has just got the edge.i think rishi has just got the edge. i think keir still looks like he is, and that is an accomplished barrister, and a bit dull and a bit quiet, and i think rishi is up to the cut and thrust if julie etchingham allows them to have a bit of it. >> good man. thank you very much, alastair. lovely to see you this evening. thanks for joining me. we will of course, be getting all of the reaction to the debate a little later in our programming. now, coming up next, we're going to be discussing labour's energy plans and whether the idea of decarbonising the power grid by 2030 is total folly. don't go

welcome back to vote 2024 with me. camilla tominey. let's get stuck into what labour is proposing when it comes to energy. you'll probably be familiar with this idea of setting up gb energy . that's the setting up gb energy. that's the keir starmer's idea, which he has been talking about on the campaign trail today. that would mean the establishment of a publicly owned clean energy company that would help to protect the uk from spikes in the price of fuel, like those that have followed russia's invasion of ukraine. the party says the firm would be headquartered in scotland and funded through a windfall tax on big oil and gas firms, with an initial 8.3 billion capitalisation over the course of parliament. so i suppose the question that we want to answer this evening is whether it will work. lord marland joins me. he's a former minister for energy and climate change and business, and clive moffatt is also in the studio , a former also in the studio, a former government adviser on energy shapps. let's start with you, lord marland. will it work? >> well, i think it's a great idea, these things, and one should always applaud an initiative that, looks to smooth

out the energy prices. and there's obviously a lot of thought gone into it. it is slightly the same old, same old. i mean, we started the green investment bank, really to, help energy . energy. >> but we haven't been self—sufficient enough, have we? no, but the but but the reason why we haven't been self—sufficient enough is we haven't taken a long term enough view on the subject. >> and we've we've bounced from cutting off north sea to reopening it again. we've bounced from, the original oil, miliband scheme, of which was a 15 billion, subsidies to people who put in solar panels and, and wind farms and things like that. and and, the point is it's all been knee jerk reactions to what has to be a long term strategic planning and transition, camilla is the thing that's missed. >> then people agree with that, and then they see the setting of arbitrary targets. net zero by 2030, 20, 35, 20, 50, depending on who you listen to. and it

seems unrealistic. clive. >> yes, i would agree with that. i think that's a crucial point. i think that's a crucial point. i think that's a crucial point. i think the there's been almost a conspiracy of silence between labour and the conservatives about exactly how realistic or let's put it this way, how affordable and feasible 2030 and 2035 targets are . and i think we 2035 targets are. and i think we need a far more strategic approach to this transition, which means to some extent, questioning those targets we haven't ever had in the time that it's been talked about decarbonisation of electricity system. we've never really had a proper overall comprehensive cost benefit analysis. what we have had is a lot of advocacy, which has replaced a robust analysis, a lot of wishful thinking. yes i think gb energy is an extreme example of wishful thinking . i is an extreme example of wishful thinking. i pick up is an extreme example of wishful thinking . i pick up lord thinking. i pick up lord mullen's point. i think it doesn't on our face of it. look more than anything more than a pump priming investment vehicle, whereby government might put in

some money into some capital projects, but that's not new. what we really need to look at is the strategic management of the energy markets. and i have recently, last week launched my own on behalf of the uk energy security group, which i am chairman and founder of a ten point plan, one of which, the most important part is that we should place two points really. one put a moratorium on renewable development at the moment pending a detailed cost benefit analysis, and also, at the same time, look at the governance structure of the market and look at the possibility, look at the for case setting up an independent strategic energy authority, which would give us the strategic momentum beyond 2050 and would replace ofgem , would and would replace ofgem, would replace the carbon the climate change committee , and would take change committee, and would take the system operator function out of grid into this strategic authority .

authority. >> i mean, lord marland, the point is, i think the british pubuc point is, i think the british public try and do their best, don't they? they're much , much don't they? they're much, much better when it comes to being green than we were 30 years ago. absolutely. carbon emissions have indeed come down. yes. equally, i think people think that net zero is an ambitious target, but they have to get there in their own time and they can't be impoverished while they're doing it. the other thing is suggestions about banning diesels and petrols are all well and good, but not if people can't afford electric cars, and also not if there isn't the infrastructure there to charge them . to charge them. >> no, you're completely right. and it's all about planning , and and it's all about planning, and it's about continuity and moving gradually into this net zero thing. and the trouble with this policy, and this isn't a political point, because i've been here before, you know, they mentioned putting greening people's homes. we had the green deal people's homes. we had the green deal, which we actually did . we deal, which we actually did. we sort of kind of inherited from labour that didn't really work terribly well, this is all about

, green energy, but the grid can't take it, the green energy at the moment. that's why people aren't building offshore, why people aren't building onshore. because they can't get it into the grid. and if you can't get into the grid, there's no point creating electricity. so the grid has to be completely, upscaled, which is happening, but it's going to take years. so it's this transfer that everyone wants as you completely are. right. >> but in good time. >> but in good time. >> but in good time. >> but but in a timely fashion that people can cope with. >> i mean, is it possible to decarbonise the power grid by no. in six years? simply gets in it. >> simply it's not. this is what we know at the moment. it's not feasible to actually to take all fossil fuel out of electricity generation mix. and we are 40% dependent on gas for power, for natural gas, for power and 70 to 80 for domestic heating. we're not going to change that overnight. and in many cases, it wouldn't be possible to do so,

even if we wish to do so and even if we wish to do so and even if we had the billions available to actually transform the network, what we're creating effectively is a gas to power developed system. over the last 30, 40 years, and seeking to overhaul that within a space of 4 or 5, six years, which is simply going to be very costly. the point about funding is very important. all of this has to be funded and the only way it can be funded is through electricity charges and gas charges. >> yes. all right . i charges and gas charges. >> yes. all right. i think charges and gas charges. >> yes. all right . i think we've >> yes. all right. i think we've got some agreement across this panel tonight. who would have believed it? net zero a good thing, but let's not race towards it at the expense of the taxpayer. effectively and indeed common sense . exactly. thank you common sense. exactly. thank you very much indeed, clive moffatt, lord marland, thank you very much for joining lord marland, thank you very much forjoining me. well, coming up next, we're going to be seeing chris hope, gb news political editor. edit interview liz kendall because they're both in that itv spin room. i can see it filling up now ahead of the

big leaders debate between sunak and starmer. stay for

welcome back to vote 2024 with me. camilla tominey. now, as christopher hope runs around the spin room at the itv debate, which is starting in, well, just over an hour and a half's time . over an hour and a half's time. we're going to speak to patrick christys because he's got a special show tonight. he's going to be reacting to what is said because he's going to be reacting. he's going to be ringside and reacting to the punch up between sunak and starmer. aren't you patrick? yes that's all about it. >> absolutely correct. yes. okay. so at 9 pm. ben leo is going to be doing a special version of my show. i'm going to be in the boardroom here @gbnews with some very special guests actually watching that leaders debate live so that you, the gb news viewers and listeners don't have to. we'll be cherry picking

the very best bits out of that, and we'll be playing them to you at 10 pm. and it's at 10 pm. that we go to the spin room with our political editor, christopher hope, who's going to pull the curtain back on what is a bumper night in british political history. i've got a tory minister right at the top. i'm going to have a fantastic panel with me here in the studio. we've got labour frontbenchers as well coming out of our ears. it is going to be an absolutely monumental show. just make sure to watch gb news nine till 10 pm. there's no point you watching that. leaders debate, because we will be picking out those best bits for you. and then at 10 pm. i'm going to be doing everything that i said, but there's going to be a couple of other little twists as well, a couple of surprises. camilla, for our audience, we're doing it in true gb news style. so make sure you watch this space. >> patrick. don't you worry. we'll all be watching. i love your energy. he's absolutely pumped this man for this election and for this debate tonight. so we very much look forward to that. now, christopher hope has been trawling around the itv debate spin room trying to find a labour shadow minister to talk to. we thought he was going to

talk to liz kendall, who is i think shadow pensions and work. but actually i think he's found jonathan ashworth, the former shadow health secretary. i think christopher, who have you managed to snare ? managed to snare? >> that's right. in doctor who , >> that's right. in doctor who, camilla we see the, the doctor who changes form every few years. we've replaced liz kendall with jonathan ashworth , kendall with jonathan ashworth, his shadow cabinet office minister. jonathan. well thank you for joining minister. jonathan. well thank you forjoining us on gb news with camilla tominey tonight. you are 20 points ahead in the polls. you don't need to debate rishi sunak. why are you even here? >> a single vote has not been cast yet in this general election. and this is a fight. but if people agree that after 14 years of decline and chaos and other tories, that it's time for change, i think they will see tonight from keir starmer, a strong leader, someone who's changed the labour party and who can also change the country. he'll be setting out a plan for

how he'll deliver that change. and in contrast, you've got rishi sunak in a sort of splurging out in a scattergun way, announcement after announcement. i've totted it up £70 billion worth of commitments that he cannot fund. i'll tell you, i'll fund it by putting up tax or forcing up mortgages on working people all over again . working people all over again. >> we'll hear those issues played out in the debate, but hasn't keir starmer got more to lose this? the ming vase, this the lead in the polls is so precious . the lead in the polls is so precious. he's risking it all on a debate he doesn't need doesn't need to have in the first place. >> now we're working really hard to win the trust of every single voter, working really hard to win the trust of b of gb news viewers. and i think gb news viewers. and i think gb news viewers will see that tonight. keir starmer is talking about our plan to fix the nhs and deliver 2 million more appointments. our plan to bring order to the borders and stop the boats. do you know how many people have crossed the channel since rishi sunak promised to stop the boats? 40,000. we'll see tonight . if rishi sunak is see tonight. if rishi sunak is brave enough to admit to that

failure , i'm sure small boats failure, i'm sure small boats will come up. >> and also labour's approach to that. when you last talked to keir starmer, i speak to keir starmer. >> all the time. i saw him today. >> and how is he? is, he is he up for it? is he full of energy and how long has he been been preparing for this? he's he's in good spirits. >> he's determined. and you know why he's determined? because he knows great britain can be so much better than this. we don't need to have so many people on an nhs waiting list. we don't have to have to have young people priced out of the dream of home ownership. we don't have to have this chaos at our borders. keir starmer has got a plan to fix these problems and make britain great again. >> he'll be challenged by his support in the past. first for jeremy corbyn, that might hurt him. jeremy corbyn is not a candidate in this election. >> liz truss is still a candidate, though, does she? sunak's done nothing about her and she crashed the economy. but look, this is a completely changed labour party and keir starmer's own strength in changing the labour party and he will change the country as well. >> he says change and change is your big idea, but you're not changing much at all. a lot of

your policies are basically tory lite policies. >> no, no, no, no, not at all. after 14 years of chaos and decline, i think people want change. look, we're going to deliver 2 million more appointments to the nhs. so you'll have viewers tonight watching us who are perhaps waiting for an operation, a hernia, a hip replacement, a heart valve operation, waiting weeks and weeks and weeks, if not months and months and months. we're going to cut waiting times. that's a big change for people tonight who are sat in discomfort and pain because they can't get an operation in tory britain. >> it's make or break in a way, for rishi sunak. he might go all in and attack your guy and he's not very good debating, is he, keir starmer. not good on, not good on a quickfire questions. we will. >> well we'll see tonight. but i think when rishi sunak tells tries to tell the british public that they've never had it so good, i think his insistence will jar with the real life experiences of working people across the country are paying more on their mortgage, who are paying more on their mortgage, who are paying more in tax, have been paying paying more in tax, have been paying more in tax, have been paying more on their energy bills and more in the shops because of conservative chaos.

>> the all the websites today and the channels are full of nigel farage return. is that damaging to labour a bit because he tells us, mr farage, he will take support from the labour party as well as the tory party. >> well, i mean, rishi sunak, spin doctors have spent two weeks telling us the first two weeks telling us the first two weeks of our campaign will be about squashing reform. well, the end of the two weeks. and nigel farage has announced he's a candidate. but look, at the end of the day, it's either going to be a labour government or five more years of a tory government. and if gb news viewers want change, they've got to vote labour. >> what's your advice to keir starmer? >> my advice to keir starmer is to talk about the change that he wants to bring to this country after 14 years of not you keep saying change, jonathan, he's not changing much at all. >> it's basically no risk, no risk. >> labour tell you something, you go and talk to somebody who is in so much pain that they can't get out of the house because they can't get a hip replacement. that's a massive change to them. you talk to, you talk to parents who are not getting their mental health care for their children. and we're going to and that investing in

mental health services, that is change. this is really important . this is about people's lives. and i think people want that change after 14 years of the tories getting governing right is actually just your pitch to the to the gb news viewers , the to the gb news viewers, getting governing right, most certainly after the chaos of the last 14 years of these tories, absolutely . it is. economic absolutely. it is. economic stability in this country is actually change. so economic stability first, strong defence, deaung stability first, strong defence, dealing with the chaos at the borders and rebuilding our nhs. >> and you think sir keir starmer is up for this? he's previously been called a judge's lawyer. not really a jury lawyer. not really a jury lawyer. is he good at this kind of thinking on his feet? some thinking he isn't. >> well, i mean, i don't really know what it means because i'm not a lawyer, but but i but i know this. >> i mean, he convincing judges, not a jury. >> well, what i know, what i know is that we're working hard for every single vote to win the trust of everybody in this country, because we want to deliver change in this country after 14 years of failure. and you'll see tonight, i suspect, a

strong performance from keir starmer and a plan of what that change. >> how long has it been been rehearsing for? >> i don't know, i'm not a i'm not a spin doctor, i don't know. >> his team has been rehearsing. i think rishi sunak had oliver dowden standing in for your guy. i think there's an aide standing in as rishi sunak against keir starmer. >> i think he, i think he will voice the hopes and dreams of the british people who want change in this country. >> jonathan ashworth i think i got the message there, come home and change is what, sir keir starmer is offering . starmer is offering. >> thanks very much indeed for that, chris. and to jonathan ashworth , who seems just about ashworth, who seems just about as excited as patrick christys tonight , as excited as patrick christys tonight, don't forget. stay tuned for his results. show his reaction show at 9 pm. you won't want to go anywhere because we're going to have a special report next from normandy. as we approach the anniversary of

as well as the world prepares to

mark the 80th anniversary of d—day on thursday, ellie costello , gb news presenter, is costello, gb news presenter, is in normandy. ellie, i think you've been speaking to some special guests there. tell us, what's today been like ? what's today been like? >> we certainly have. camilla. yes, we're in arromanches right now. gold beach is just half a mile that way, where we know thousands of british troops landed on d—day, many of them falling to their deaths on that day. they are here to be remembered. they're here to be commemorated. and we are now on a campsite very close to gold beach, with veterans from different services , more modern different services, more modern services. so i'd just like to introduce you to dave and aid. thank you so much for joining us. and why is it so important that you're here? >> we've come out here to celebrate and to remember all the fallen heroes that have gone in the past as as much as we can be an expert military ourselves. >> and i can see you've both got so many medals on your chest. obviously, this is something that you feel so passionate about that, that you commemorate

these heroes that went before you. >> that's it. that to remember them and the fact that what they gave up gave these children today what they get for free. and it's a it's a heavy cost . and it's a it's a heavy cost. and it's a it's a heavy cost. and i think that coming here to celebrate it to be part of the commemorations and there will be vets here, but they're getting very few and far between to be with them just makes it a very special day. >> that's something that struck me. actually being here over the past few hours is it does feel as though this is the last big event to commemorate and remember, we are losing that great generation that went before us. so how does that make you feel? >> it makes us feel sad, but it we still have to go on and but make sure that it's always remembered in going forward. >> yes . well said. and this >> yes. well said. and this vehicle behind us now this is really caught our eye here. >> this is the oldest vehicle, the oldest surviving morris commercial. it's a 1935. it's been well looked after. it's in a private collection that they bnng a private collection that they bring it here so that everybody

gets to see it. and it keeps the commemorations alive. >> so this vehicle is 90 years old? >> yes . this old? >> yes. this vehicle is 90 years old. and it was here during d—day and through the conflict. >> isn't that just the most remarkable piece of history? it is absolutely pristine. so lovely to speak to you both. thank you so much and thank you for your service as well. just so much happening here, camilla. we can show you now, this is an raf medical van. the way that it would have been during d—day. we can hear that music coming through the speaker now, the war planes here, how to identify war planes, just as it would have been back in 1994, 1944. this is the most british scene you've ever seen. here, look at this. food, music all gathering and listening to that beautiful music and just camilla, i wanted to show you the most sweetest sight i possibly seen here in normandy. hello all of you. so, what are your names? >> my name is fletcher . my >> my name is fletcher. my name's parker. >> lovely. and what's your name ?

>> lovely. and what's your name? >> lovely. and what's your name? >> hello, bella. grace and grace and bella particularly. >> you look very beautiful. do you enjoy dressing up? yes, yes. and you love it so much. you >> where? where am i dressing up? clothes at bedtime . up? clothes at bedtime. >> exactly. she wears her dressing up clothes as her pyjamas. and fletcher. what do you love most about your jeep? you love most about yourjeep? >> well, i like it. how the way it goes, how fast it goes. because i'm more of a racer. >> are you okay? i feel like you might be showing off now. i think you might have to show me how fast you can go. do you want to take it away, fletcher? >> well, it might be well, it's. the battery isn't that fast. it's only fast when it charged. really should we give it a go? yeah. >> do you think? let's see how it goes. so you've got the keys in your hand. parker, are you feeling confident? okay okay. all right, let's see how this goes. take it away. well, the battery wasn't charged. we might have had a false start here. we? lovely stuff . isn't that the lovely stuff. isn't that the most beautiful sight you've

seen? thank you , you for. and seen? thank you, you for. and thank you. all of us. all of you, for having us. and we've been talking today about commemoration. camilla. what a more beautiful sight than that. children, the next generation handing over that torch. >> couldn't agree more . ellie >> couldn't agree more. ellie fletcher, parker, bella and grace. what a credit you are to your families and also how encouraging after we did see that polling in the week suggesting that just 48% of young people aged 18 to 34 knew what d—day was all about. those children they're setting the example. thanks, ellie, and i know you're going to be bringing us much more news from the next two days. we'll be covering every cough and spit on gb news, don't you worry. well, let's just get into another story as quickly as we can. now, just to summarise, something that is really, truly tragic, you may remember that there was a baby called elsa that was abandoned in january in minus 5 degrees temperatures. absolutely awful . temperatures. absolutely awful. it's now emerged that that baby had two siblings, which were also abandoned in the newham area of london. so three babies,

all related. there were reporting restrictions on this story, but the idea that three siblings from one family have been abandoned in london and now are being cared for by adoptive and foster parents, has obviously hit the headlines and caused a degree of shock. let's bnng caused a degree of shock. let's bring sophia worringer into the conversation now . she's the conversation now. she's the deputy policy director for the centre for social justice. we're slightly running out of time here, sophia, even though this is a really significant story, i suppose my question , not just as suppose my question, not just as a journalist but as a mother, is how has this happened? you know, we've had a mother here with three pregnancies, and none of the authorities seem to have noficed the authorities seem to have noticed that she isn't with three of her babies . three of her babies. >> it's absolutely tragic. and we can only imagine the anguish that she is going through. and the decision that she felt like she had to make because she felt like she had no other options. and i think this story just shows how hard it is for many families at the moment. thankfully baby abandonment is

rare. one study has shown that tried to systematise baby abandonment across the uk, so there's a maximum of 16 a year. it's good that those numbers are so small, but obviously for that family and for those children , family and for those children, the impact will stay with them for the rest of their lives. so it's completely tragic. >> i mean, on one hand, there's a hopeful ending because the two older children have been adopted and equally , you know, one could and equally, you know, one could be quick to rush to judgement here. we simply don't know what's gone on. and i would suggest if there's a situation where a mother has had to conceal pregnancies, these babies were left in sort of prime view, so to speak. they weren't hidden away. there was clearly a desire for them to be found . but again, i can't help found. but again, i can't help but ask the question of the authorities . having had three authorities. having had three babies myself. obviously that's within the nhs system. not only are you cared for before you have the babies, you've also got a health visitor coming round almost weekly. when you've got a newborn, we don't know, but maybe this woman wasn't on the register at all.

>> it sounds like. obviously we can't speculate too much, but it does sound like this woman, unfortunately, was not getting the support that she needs. and you raise a very good point there about health visitors. so unfortunately , since 2015, the unfortunately, since 2015, the numbers have fallen by a third. and that's why at the centre for social justice, we want those numbers to go back to what they were 2015. we know that health visitors have such an important role walking with a woman through her pregnancy and through her pregnancy and through the early days of being a mother. they are trusted professionals who are welcomed into homes and they can be one of the few people that has eyes on a family that is struggling, and we think that there needs to be more of them across the country because many families are facing dire circumstances, many families are really struggling. that's why we also want family hubs. so any family of any shape or size can walk in to a family hub in their local authority. they're currently in 75. we want them in every local authority. they can walk through the door and they'll get support. they don't need to

explain themselves. many, many times the different agencies , times the different agencies, they can make one appearance and they can make one appearance and they get support. that's why we think it's really important that we have family hubs in every local authority, and that families are valued for the incredible service they do, and mothers particularly are supported through one of the most vulnerable times of their lives. sofia warringah. >> thank you very much indeed for joining us this evening. deputy policy director of the centre for social justice. the other thing about health visitors, by the way, is it's not just for the baby, it's for the mum. you know, we don't live in this world anymore. where a new mother lives next door to her mother and her grandmother and her aunt, and you've got a whole family bringing up a baby. people are living far apart. that's why we need these people, andifs that's why we need these people, and it's a very, very, very sad story, which i'm sure we will keep a very close eye on. tom harwood is with me in the studio. lovely to see you here, tom. thank you. big night again. big day on the campaign trail. >> huge night, big day on the campaign. and big guests on the show to come up. shadow health secretary wes streeting will be

speaking in the run up to this debate. of course, on another channel, also, the health secretary, victoria atkins , will secretary, victoria atkins, will be on the show, but also we're going to be talking about the issues, not just the people. big announcement today from the tories on immigration, a big reiteration from the labour party on energy, energy versus immigration. we're going to have some detailed policy analysis and debate. but crucially, that spin room ahead of the debate, we'll be back with christopher hopein we'll be back with christopher hope in the run up to what will be one of the spiciest moments of the campaign so far. >> i know they've called it a bore off, but at the same time it is compelling stuff. >> well, here's the thing the prime minister needs something to shift in this campaign. yes. what might he say that could be the big gambit to try and shift. how things might move. it will be interesting to watch if he does have a big, bold and comprehensive offer. >> imagine if it becomes rishi mania like cleggmania. you know, stranger things have. >> somehow i doubt it. >> somehow i doubt it. >> stranger things have happened. tom. look, we look forward to state of the nation next, of course, with tom harwood. i'll be back here

tomorrow at seven. and don't forget that reaction to the debate coming to you with a excited patrick . you can't keep a good

>> good evening. i'm tom harwood, deputy political editor of gb news, bringing you the state of the nations 2024 election coverage . tonight. election coverage. tonight. rishi sunak and sir keir starmer are gearing up for the first of the election debates. they're geanng the election debates. they're gearing up as we speak. we're going live to the chopper who will be joined by both the secretary of state and a shadow secretary of state and a shadow secretary of state and a shadow secretary of state. we'll get all the updates as and when they happen.the all the updates as and when they happen. the conservative party has, in other news, announced its latest immigration plans, vowing to implement an unspecified cap on the number of visas each year. but could this be a mere reaction to nigel farage's announcement yesterday ? farage's announcement yesterday? and keir starmer has vowed to close the door on vladimir putin