>> good evening. i'm tom harwood, deputy political editor of gb news, bringing you the state of the nations 2024 election coverage . tonight. election coverage. tonight. rishi sunak and sir keir starmer are gearing up for the first of the election debates. they're geanng the election debates. they're gearing up as we speak. we're going live to the chopper who will be joined by both the secretary of state and a shadow secretary of state and a shadow secretary of state and a shadow secretary of state. we'll get all the updates as and when they happen.the all the updates as and when they happen. the conservative party has, in other news, announced its latest immigration plans, vowing to implement an unspecified cap on the number of visas each year. but could this be a mere reaction to nigel farage's announcement yesterday .7 farage's announcement yesterday? and keir starmer has vowed to close the door on vladimir putin

by reducing britains reliance on fossil fuels . by reducing britains reliance on fossil fuels. he's announcing labour's latest plans for gb energy , an investment vehicle. energy, an investment vehicle. he announced those in the north—west of england today . but north—west of england today. but is the plan all it's cracked up to be? plus ahead of the 80th anniversary of d—day, a new people's poll for gb news found that less than half of brits under the age of 24 know what d—day refers to . what does this d—day refers to. what does this say about the state of education in this country? state of the nafion in this country? state of the nation starts now . nation starts now. i'll also be joined by my panel. the former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, and the pr consultant and former labour aide, stella stella centrarchidae. that's all coming up after the latest headlines with polly middlehurst.

>> tom, thank you and good evening to you. well, last minute preparations are underway tonight as rishi sunak and sir keir starmer go head to head in the first televised debate of the first televised debate of the general election campaign, the general election campaign, the cost of living, immigration and defence all expected to be topics up for discussion . topics up for discussion. meanwhile, both the conservative and labour parties have been condemning an incident involving reform's nigel farage, who had a milkshake thrown over him in essex earlier on today. one woman has been arrested on suspicion of assault and elsewhere on the campaign trail. the liberal democrats have been campaigning on social care, while the snp has condemned conservative plans to kerb visas for migrants. but the home secretary, james cleverly, insists it will strike a balance between the benefit and the costs of migration. >> if we are returned to government, we have committed to a scheme to cap the level of work related visas. the migration advisory committee

will crunch the numbers to balance the economic needs of the country against the pressure on public services and suggest to the government a level james cleverly. >> but more than 200 migrants arrived on uk shores on small boats this morning. four vessels made the trip from northern france after 63 people managed to cross yesterday. that takes the total number of illegal migrants who've arrived in the uk. so far in 2024. now to more than 10,500. that's up 38% on 2023. the labour leader, sir keir starmer , blames the keir starmer, blames the conservatives for the rising numbers . numbers. >> the conservatives have let immigration get out of control. we've got record numbers of people coming to this country and they've now said they're going to have a visa cap. they've not said what the number is, so they've got a visa cap without a cap. we did have a visa cap before rishi sunak erg to get rid of it, which they did in 2020, and now they're going back to it. but without a number

it is utter chaos. >> sir keir starmer now gb news can reveal that up to six conservative candidates are reported to be deciding upon whether or not to defect to reform uk. the candidates have to decide by friday when nominations must be in. one told gb news that rishi sunak's performance in tonight's leader's debate with sir keir starmer could impact on his decision . a group of british decision. a group of british veterans has arrived in france today to take part in commemorations marking the 80th anniversary of the normandy landings . earlier, there was an landings. earlier, there was an raf fly—past and crowds waving flags gathered on harbour walls in portsmouth as the men set off for france. they're carrying with them a commemorative torch from the commonwealth war graves commission, which will form the centrepiece at a vigil tomorrow . centrepiece at a vigil tomorrow. that's the news. for the latest stories, do sign up to gb news alerts . scan the qr code on your alerts. scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts .

slash alerts. >> good evening and welcome back to state of the nation. it's 8:04 and my name is tom harwood. well, let's get a sense of the feverish atmosphere ahead of this night's leadership debate. we're going to the spin room as rishi sunak and sir keir starmer geanng rishi sunak and sir keir starmer gearing up for the clash this evening, our political editor christopher hope, is there. live in the spin room. and christopher, you're going to be speaking to the shadow home secretary in just a moments time. but first give us a sense of the atmosphere . of the atmosphere. >> yeah. yes. hi, tom. and welcome to the spin room here. we're in coronation street territory where itv make the world famous long running tv soap. but there'll be a different form of soap opera , i different form of soap opera, i think on stage within, within the hour when it starts on itv , the hour when it starts on itv, we will have sir keir starmer against rishi sunak. we will have sir keir starmer against rishi sunak . and of against rishi sunak. and of course, sir keir starmer is miles ahead in the polls. he's a debate he doesn't need to have,

so he'll be trying to be very careful not to make kenneth do anything which damages that ming vase, that lead he's got in the polls. but of course, rishi sunak, he's got to make some take some risks here. he's got to try and rebuild a difficult week. with the ms3 mrp polls dropping in the past five days, giving labour a three figure majority on july 4th, one month away from today at the general election . so a lot to play for. election. so a lot to play for. i think the risk is really it's really on all on rishi sunak. how can he how can he show that he's he he can he can command. how can he be the head master, not the head boy. how can he show that he's the person with the authority to be given another chance at prime minister after this general election, he'll try and paint sir keir starmer as a risk. this country can't afford to take. sir keir starmer will be saying back well, listen, you've messed up for 14 years. we need change and change is stability. of course, rishi sunak will say, well , you rishi sunak will say, well, you back jeremy corbyn, that leftwing revolutionary back in 2017, 2019. so a bit of ding dong and we'll see who, who,

who, who wins that with the spin room. and we're expecting wes streeting, the shadow health minister, to come and talk to us shortly, and we'll bring him over as soon as we get him and other tory cabinet ministers and ministers will be here shortly, too. >> very , very good stuff, >> very, very good stuff, christopher. we'll be right back with you when you're with the shadow health secretary. but for now, joining me is my panel, of course, kelvin mackenzie and stella santa kidu. kelvin, we have seen many debates now . they have seen many debates now. they were a thing that was alien to this country. but ever since 2010, they've been a mainstay of general election campaigns. does tonight matter? >> no. it doesn't. it won't make the slightest bit of difference short of this firm of if starmer punched rishi or something dramatic happened, there was nothing that can be said on the policy side, which is going to move the needle. the tories have heard it all. labour has heard it all. i in fact, even had some. an estate agent forecast to me that the housing market would basically collapse for the full 6 to 8 weeks of the

election. right? he said. absolutely not, he said nobody's taking any notices. houses are being sold ten to the dozen at the moment. nobody cares about this. i there will be some watching tonight. nobody will watching tonight. nobody will watch the second one and it won't make a slightest bit of difference to the polls. i'm afraid the game is up, stella. >> games up. no one's listening. >> games up. no one's listening. >> i'm afraid i have to agree . >> i'm afraid i have to agree. we see that a lot less people view them. i love, i love debates, and i love, you know, gathering with my friends and watching them and tweeting about them and all of that. but i don't think they're going to make a difference. i think most people, if they do watch any parts of the debate, it would be through clips on social media, perhaps, or maybe they will be tuning in and out. i doubt that a lot of them will be paying much attention because there's a big lead. >> or is this down to the personalities of the two men that are on the stage tonight? if it were boris johnson or nigel farage or jeremy corbyn, these are perhaps bigger personalities than the more bonng personalities than the more boring people, dare i say it, that are going to be on the stage? well you could say that

the election was boring up until maybe yesterday, and i'm not sure anyone would be saying that today , but i think has to do today, but i think has to do more with the place of, live tv and, televised debates and what appetite people have to see to politicians and spewing out lines and not really, not really for a lot of people, they will not be really analysing any policy. they it will not be a genuine snapshot into how they're going to govern. it will just be a lot of lines , that just be a lot of lines, that they will then be able to consume on twitter. >> i think, i think the issue really is that if it was farage versus rishi, i think actually a lot of people would be very interested. that would be boxer or even farage versus starmer. but you've got, you know, a couple of middle class, middle aged, you know , guys simply aged, you know, guys simply spouting the stuff which nobody is reading anyway and doesn't want to be involved in. honestly, i, i'd be astonished if this were interesting. why do you think in previous general election campaigns, the debates

have seemed perhaps a bigger moment? well, one of the reasons is that both of these people, completely wrongly , as far as completely wrongly, as far as farage does point out, have decided. right. we're all heading to the middle. right? so starmer has said, left wing. never heard of him. no, no, no, not us mate. not asked me. and then sunak has said right, right wing, no load of nutcases in, in the reform, has he. >> i thought he was trying to steal reform policy . steal reform policy. >> he's he's trying to do both. you're quite right, tom. you're 100% right. he's trying to do two things at the same time. and he's going straight down the plughole. and i'm afraid that the game is now officially up. >> well, there we go. i suppose one of the big questions is what could change things tonight? does keir starmer literally have to fall flat on his face? i think it was ed miliband who once tripped up on the stage on his way up in 2015, although he recovered quickly, it would have to be something as dramatic as that, wouldn't it? >> i think we could see the polls widen even further. no, no

, “0, polls widen even further. no, no , no, i agree with that. >> because the thing is that the thing is, rishi sunak the irony is rishi sunak wanted this to be a presidential campaign. >> for some reason, his strategy thought this would be a good idea, completely disregarding the fact that keir starmer, he's not a rock star, he doesn't have the nick clegg tony blair kind of energy, but still his personal poll ratings are much higher. >> so interesting, because i understand that both number 10 and keir starmers team wanted a one on one debate. that's very rare . generally, what happens is rare. generally, what happens is that the person who's in the lead wants many, many different people and the person behind wants it to be seen as a one on one contest. but perhaps keir starmer was actually quite wise to chase after sunaks gambit of a one on one because he doesn't want, played comrie up there saying how disastrously, they view the welsh labour government to be. and the scandal around vaughan gething and all of that. the leader of wales. no, no laboun the leader of wales. no, no labour. he also well he knows, he knows at worst at very, very worst he'll bat a draw and

batting a draw when you're 20 to 25 points in front is fantastic . 25 points in front is fantastic. >> right. whereas rishi is saying, what can i do ? and the saying, what can i do? and the answer is, unfortunately, thanks to nigel coming out in the way he has, there is nothing he can do. nobody is listening and i'm afraid it's time to move on. thank you rishi, it's been a pleasure. >> the emotional state is also going to shine through, right? because obviously keir starmer is flying high, whereas rishi sunak, no matter how strong he is as a character and how hard working and whatever sense of responsibility he feels to lead his party into the elections, he's going to be feeling horrible and this is going to shine through. >> it's interesting, though, because , would would rishi sunak because, would would rishi sunak have been better placed trying to argue that some of the more minor candidates should be included? perhaps rishi sunak should have argued, as david cameron did in 2015, that the snp should be invited into the debates and then the snp, as they are wont to do, would go after labour relentlessly, as they always do at prime minister's questions . minister's questions. >> but then wouldn't that end up

being basically all of the leaders putting rishi sunak in the corner and blaming him for all of their problems? >> well, the other the other thing is that the snp now under swinney, are trying to move to the who under . yeah under. under the who under. yeah under. under who doctor who are trying to move to the centre themselves. there is nobody with the exception of farage. there's nobody on the left who's got a voice only farage has got the voice only farage has got the voice and he's got it of the right. and we will be returning to scotland because it's an actually an underappreciated story in this general election campaign and something that could change very, very dramatically the political makeup of that part of the united kingdom. >> but let's cross back now to the spin room at the debate where christopher hope is joined by the senior political correspondent at the daily express, christian kalgi. >> he tom harwood that's right. with me now is christian kalgi from the express christian. why on earth is keir starmer here? >> well, keir starmer is here because he has to be. and we saw what happened in 2017 when theresa may tried ducking the debates. the reality is that , i debates. the reality is that, i think a lot of parties might

somewhat regret this new tradition that's been in place since 2010. but there's no ducking it. it's part and parcel of the election campaign now, and he'd look for it if he wasn't here. but of course, he's not as many debates as rishi sunak wanted him to be at rishi wanted a debate every single week because traditionally , the week because traditionally, the underdog has more to gain from these debates, and the person in front has much more to lose. so for keir, it's a traditional performance of carrying that ming vase across the slippery floor. and for rishi, he's really going to be biting and tackling starmer on every point of contention. he's got a problem, though, hasn't he, mr sunak, if he interrupts too much, he looks a bit preppy, a bit keen to get involved a bit. >> the school boy, the head boy, not the head teacher. how does he manage to make his points challenge the labour leader and yet not look a bit irritating to viewers? well this is the this is the crucial point because in 2022 and he was debating liz truss. >> those were exactly the complaints that many viewers. and of course, liz truss's team

had . in fact, they even accused had. in fact, they even accused him of sexism. obviously tonight that isn't an accusation that can be levelled, but that really is rishi's point. he's got to be quite calm and level headed, but forceful, and that really remains to be seen . and that remains to be seen. and that will make or break whether he has a good night or a bad night. >> well, there you have christian khalife from the express with the challenge facing the person behind the polls. in this case, rishi sunak. tom. >> well, christopher hope, thank you very much . it's all gearing you very much. it's all gearing up for something that we hope is going to be slightly more exciting than many people perhaps expect. but of course, we're going to have, we're going to be having much, much more to come after the break. we're going to be discussing not only the personalities of this election, but the policies. yes. the conservatives have proposed a new immigration cap, but can you guess what number they're putting on that cap

good evening. welcome back to state of the nation. it's 818, and i'm tom harwood now, it's been described as the immigration election by some, with the topic heading ever more to the forefront of the debate . to the forefront of the debate. following nigel farage's decision to throw his hat into the parliamentary ring yesterday, both the labour party and the conservatives have committed to stopping the boats and cutting net migration numbers , both legal and illegal, numbers, both legal and illegal, on this . on the day nigel on this. on the day nigel farages candidacy announcement was the conservatives latest policy pledge, a cap on the number of visas available for migrants to be voted on by parliament each year. now, before the break, i asked if you could guess what that cap would be set at, what number? the tories have arrived at? well, the answer is they haven't. they haven't given a number. they'll be asking the migration advisory committee that quango, for its

recommendation. well, let's get some of the detail down now with journalist and commentator jonathan liz, as well as my panel jonathan liz, as well as my panel, the former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, and pr consultant and former labour aide stella santaguida . hi, aide stella santaguida. hi, jonathan, this is clearly an issue where there is an element of , at least issue where there is an element of, at least nominal consensus. all parties are saying migration should come down. >> yeah. so keir starmer was a criticising the tories today for allowing migration to get too high. and that's why i actually am opposed to the labour party on this particular issue, even though i support them , more though i support them, more broadly, because i think that party should be making a positive case for migration, we've allowed ourselves to get stuck in this trap, where we kind of each party has to sort of out, anti—immigration , the of out, anti—immigration, the others, to sort of appeal to a narrowing base of the british public. actually, we see that people are actually quite relaxed about immigration in the way that they weren't as much, say, ten years ago. and that

obviously the government has made a big point about stopping the boats because they want to distract attention from the fact that, regular legal migration has got to record highs under their watch. but a really important point. >> if everyone's very relaxed about didn't say everyone, but i said that more people, more people are very relaxed about what are record numbers aberrational high numbers. i mean, we're talking about gross. more than a million people coming in each year, net over 600,000, over 700,000 the year before . so, if people are more before. so, if people are more relaxed, why are all the parties seemingly converging on a more restrictionist policy ? restrictionist policy? >> i think that when you get into the weeds of what people want and don't want, if you ask people, do you want fewer foreign students to come here? most people say, no. foreign students are a positive thing. they contribute to our universities. it's one of the britain's remaining success stories. they sort of contribute positively to the economy, and then afterwards they have the chance to make this country their home. these are skilled people, if you say we have skill shortages in these particular,

sort of industries, do you think we should have more or fewer people coming to fill those shortages? most people say that we should have more people. so even nigel farage, that great anti—immigration , populist, when anti—immigration, populist, when sort of pinned down on this issue on the radio this morning, agreed that we had to have hundreds of thousands of people coming to this country. so really, although he did say net zero, he said net. but the problem with the problem with net having caps on net migration, tom, is that you can't control how many people leave unless you're actually going to physically deport people, which is not the policy of any main party at the moment. >> and kelvin, i suppose it is true that the last time we had net zero emissions nation or even net immigration, it was when the country was in decline. >> yes. so the so i have two points to make about that. i don't agree with your speaker that everybody is relaxed about. i didn't say everybody migration. i'd love to know what that percentage was. i suspect it would mainly be lefties and people who had actually benefited from coming. we'll be surprised. i don't think i'd be surprised. i don't think i'd be surprised at all. but anyway, so

i think most polls do show that it's still a majority want lower numbers. yeah. everybody everybody wants lower numbers for lots of different reasons. >> jonathan is correct to say that there are some polls that show, compared to where it was in 2016. well, some things may have moved and yet may have moved, but those, those issues around, around and, the national health service and your local doctor not being able to see them for a month and those kinds of things and a house housing rentals and all those kinds of things which is exactly the point of the conservative, kind of policy document which came out yesterday, which will come out yesterday, which will come out to a very large raspberry, because what is the point , when because what is the point, when nobody is listening to the conservatives right now of issuing such a detailed policy document ? document? >> now, i didn't know about your speaker there may know about the migration advisory committee or whatever they're called, but i've never heard about it before in my life. it's a quango which i didn't know existed. and now i'm told that they're going to

be sitting there going, right, care care workers, what do you think? eight what do you think, tom? 83,000, i'll tell you what. they need a nurse down at saint peter's hospital in, in addlestone, what what about that? the whole thing to have that? the whole thing to have that lumped on us in the middle of an election . totally preposterous. >> it's hard for the tories when they when they're speaking. and they when they're speaking. and they should have been showing and i suppose show not tell is more powerful. >> why didn't they do all this 2 or 3 years ago or whatever? >> i want to turn to what keir starmer is saying today, which is of course, he wants to see the numbers come down. if he inherits the current migration policy, they will collapse by more than half. according to all the forecasts, thanks to robert jenrick reforms. but just a few years ago, when keir starmer stood to be leader of the labour party, he said he wanted to make the positive case for migration. he said he wanted to defend open borders with europe, defend free movement. he seemingly u—turned on all of that . on all of that. >> i'm not sure these are the words he used, but i really do hope that he's going to defend immigration. there is a good case to be made about

immigration. >> ian, i do agree that quote from keir starmer, as he was campaigning to be labour leader, it was one of his ten pledges. well, he said well when free movement as we leave the eu, he said plenty of things when he was running for, for, for labour leader and obviously does that matter and obviously to whom clearly doesn't matter to people who voted for him, thinking they were getting one thing and ended up with another. >> there is no prime minister that has managed to get elected, let alone a labour prime minister that has managed to get an elected who didn't have to move to the centre ground to appeal to his wider variety of voters as possible. no labour prime minister has managed to do that, so i'm not going to sit here and criticise rachel reeves keir starmer or whichever other labour party politician who have managed to completely reform the labour party and bring it to the winnable position that it is right now. >> or are they telling the truth now? >> no, i think they were saying the truth both of the times. i think. oh, because because i'll tell you why. because i think that deep inside, both of them do realise that if you want the united kingdom to be able to do the house building that it needs to do to build the

infrastructure that we need, and if you really do care about energy security, which keir starmer says he does and i do believe him, then you have to listen when hinckley point, see, and the national grid and thames water and all these other big companies are coming and telling you we don't have enough construction workers, we are offering to pay them twice, three times as much as we used to. and yet we are. that's a good thing. and that's a good thing. we want to, we want to, we want to pay. >> we want to pay more so that some of the lazy people in our own country actually do these jobs, and we don't have to import people from around the world offering these young kids. >> they keep on offering them construction apprenticeships that they don't want to take up. they don't want to take up. >> why don't they? because they're lazy british workers, lazy, youngish workers. >> you start paying them 100 grand a year. they don't make your life miserable. >> on that point, let's give a final word to jonathan. >> liz, here in this conversation, you say, you say that you don't like what keir starmer is saying on this. do you think that he was telling the truth in 2020 and was trying to perform a bait and switch, or is he telling the truth now?

>> tom, i can't tell you what's inside keir starmer's head. obviously i would have wanted him to follow through that pledge to defend free movement. he wasn't in government when we left the eu. so there is an argument to be made that, well, he didn't have any power over free movement. if he had been the prime minister, there would have been a different policy about the single market, etc. i think it's the right policy now. the labour shouldn't be sort of opening up the single market issue within the first couple of years of the next parliament, but certainly what i would like to see more from starmer is a positive case of migration, because we know that we need it. even liz truss accept that we needed it. immigration. that was sort of the forgotten story of the liz truss premiership. and when you look at what the government has done to get numbers down by cutting spouses of university students, for example, that is actually seeing a declining numbers. and that's not good for universities, although a lot of people would say they have been aberrational high numbers in the last couple of years. >> but thank you both to my panel and to jonathan. after the break, we'll be picking apart the new energy policy from the labour as sir keir pledges to close the

next. welcome back to state of the nation. i'm tom harwood. now, before we go to anything else, let's head back to that spin room as rishi sunak and keir starmer are gearing up for their big tv debate tonight . of big tv debate tonight. of course, with us is christopher hope, our very own political edhon hope, our very own political editor. and christopher, you're with a cabinet minister >> yeah. hi, tom. thank you. i'm here in the spin room in the home of coronation street. ahead of the debate today, i'm joined by victoria atkins, the cabinet minister. victor atkins. thanks for joining us on gb news. forjoining us on gb news. you've met with jonathan ashworth. he's on the channel here. an hour ago you had a bit of words with him. what was that about? >> well, he was being a typical labour boy. >> we keep hearing about the labour boys club surrounding sir keir, and he was shouting in a way that i think he was trying to distract me from the interview. i was doing. but, you know, he should never have made that mistake and in fairness, he

apologised. you gave him what for? >> well, you know, again, it's all about discipline. >> we have to make sure that these male politicians behave themselves. >> now, your guy rishi sunak. he's challenged sir keir starmer to six debates over the course of this campaign. there's two of them, bbc and itv. rishi has got a lot to do, hasn't he? i mean, you're miles behind the polls. if you were with him now, if i was him what would you be advising him? >> well, i wouldn't advise him at all because i think he will come across really well in this debate. you know, the rishi sunaki debate. you know, the rishi sunak i know is an incredibly warm person, a lovely, lovely man, great sense of humour, but also a seriousness. he takes his responsibilities as prime minister incredibly seriously. he works his socks off for us and he's got real excitement and energy about the policies that we're putting forward for the future of our great country. so i will be cheering him on, and i have no doubt that he's really , have no doubt that he's really, really going to knock it out of the park. >> he gets in trouble in debates. he was accused of mansplaining to liz truss. he

interrupted, i think a dozen times in 20 minutes. he wants to get his point across. but how does he do that without interrupting sir keir starmer? >> well , it shows how much he he >> well, it shows how much he he has to contribute and also his wish to get get his ideas across. so i'm not he will be he's more than capable. he'll do a great job of handling sir keir starmer because he does this every week in pmqs. but interestingly what's going to be i'm going to be paying great attention to is how sir keir starmer has really handles the pressure that he will face. there are some very , very big there are some very, very big questions for him to answer. it's not good enough to liken, you know, governing our country to walking across a floor with a big vase. it is much, much more complicated, much more serious than that. and i think the labour party have got to get more serious and explain how they're the thinking behind some of their ideas. >> and that vase is the poll lead, which has been set around 20 points for a while now. i suppose what you mean is that sir keir starmer normally asked

rishi sunak. the questions at the weekly prime minister's questions announce the chance for him to be put on the pressure himself. that doesn't happen a lot in public. no, it doesn't, and he's used to being the prosecutor. >> you know, i am a barrister as well. and i my question to sir keir starmer would be what is the evidence for your damascene conversion to the cause of tackling immigration? for example, he and his party voted against our measures to tackle illegal immigration. more than 100 times. suddenly, he's woken up to the issue of immigration. and what is more, he's using policies that we are we already have in in play. so he's got to show the thinking and the substance behind some of these ideas. the truth is, the reason he hasn't explained this is because he has no plan. and when we look at their refusal to follow our lead and bring in the triple lock plus, which is ensuring that basic state pensions never , ever have to pay pensions never, ever have to pay income tax because we raise their threshold , labour have their threshold, labour have refused to follow that. we've

asked them the straight question are you going to raid people's working workplace pensions to pay working workplace pensions to pay for your, goodness knows, £38 billion black hole? they refuse to answer that. and we know we as conservatives , it is know we as conservatives, it is in our dna to want to cut taxes. we also understand that we can't pass our debts on to our children and grandchildren. that is not in the labour party's dna and we know that a vote for keir starmer is a vote for higher taxes and higher immigration. >> but the polls aren't moving. i mean, as my colleague tom harwood is saying repeatedly, people aren't listening to what you're saying. that's your problem. >> well, i think they are actually. and look, i there have been times in the past where the polls haven't been in step with where the british public were, and we absolutely have the energy and the determination to go out and secure every single vote we can. i've got conservative friends and candidates across the country working every hour to get votes out, because we don't take the british public for granted,

whereas labour, i think, have supped whereas labour, i think, have slipped into complacency and arrogance when it comes to the results of this election and the great british public shows time and time again, they will not be taken for granted. >> there's another mrp poll out tonight, a mega poll giving labour well over 400 mps after the election. do you think at some point you might regret calling the election right now? >> i think this election has ensured that we have a clear choice between on the policies and the people that will be in power on the 5th of july. the choices start a vote for anyone other than the conservatives will mean that keir starmer is walking through that big black doon walking through that big black door. that includes a vote for reform . and so if you want rishi reform. and so if you want rishi sunak as your prime minister, you've got to vote conservative. >> just quickly draw back the curtain on the preparations. the pm has taken part in. you. apparently, oliver dowden stood in for keir starmer. is that right? were you part of them? >> i haven't been, i've, as you'll appreciate as health secretary, there's an awful lot for me to do in the health

department. so i've been concentrating on that today. >> but he can do it can he. he's got all the odds on him. on him triumphing tonight, i think. >> i'm not a betting person, but ihave >> i'm not a betting person, but i have i have everything i've got my complete faith and my, you know, all of my, confidence and everything in him. i think rishi is going to knock it out of the park . and i think the of the park. and i think the choice for the british public is becoming clearer. and it will be by the by the 4th of july. it's going to be absolutely clear. do we want to wake up to a country where a labour administration will raise our taxes , will see will raise our taxes, will see higher immigration, or do we want a conservative government continuing to cut taxes, cut immigration, but also do all the policies that we have for a brighter future for this great country? >> victoria atkins, thank you for joining us tonight on gb news. and there you had an increasingly noisy and tense spin room here at the home of coronation street . we wait coronation street. we wait shortly for the debate at 9:00. back to you, tom. >> things are gearing up. well, christopher, hope we will be, of

course, catching up with you in the spin room after everything has happened. but we should hear now from pat mcfadden. labour's national campaign coordinator. he's been talking ahead of the debate this evening, saying that the choice at this election is simple five more years of chaos with the conservatives or change with the conservatives or change with the conservatives or change with the labour party . now, he with the labour party. now, he says tonight the british people will have a chance to see the choice firsthand between a desperate rishi sunak, who's scattergun approach has shredded his economic credibility or keir starmer, who has changed the labour party and is offering a credible plan to change britain. see if he can spot all of those political slogans squeezed in there. well, let's move on now to one of the biggest issues of this general election today. sir keir starmer claimed that labour would close the door to vladimir putin by reducing the uk's reliance on fossil fuels . along reliance on fossil fuels. along with these plans to introduce gb energy, a new green energy investment vehicle. the party has also promised to decarbonise the grid by 2030. now that's five years earlier than the tories have promised. it's been

estimated by policy exchange that this could cost more than an extra £100 billion to do completely, but more than this , completely, but more than this, it isn't entirely clear how the grid could be decarbonised. of course, when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow, the national grid uses gas as a backup, as an infill. how the labour party plans to tackle this very issue isn't entirely clear , but with me now in the clear, but with me now in the studio is the director of the climate media coalition, donika mccarthy. donica. thank you for joining me. i want to ask this specific question because there isn't a plan for baseload. there isn't a plan for baseload. there isn't a plan for baseload. there isn't a plan for backup short of installing a battery in everyone's home. how's the labour party going to do it? >> well, the i think the an effective policy has to be fast. it has to be economically efficient and has to be fair. and some parts of the labour party's policies are those and others aren't. some are going to put up prices. but actually, to be fair, tom, the tories party policies are the same. the

tories party's policies on carbon capture and storage is a huge subsidy to the oil and gas industry and their proposals to build nuclear are horrendously expensive, both parties are committed to those. what labour is proposing is that investment in energy efficiency slashed back from what they originally proposed , but that will make proposed, but that will make bills cheaper for the famous £48 billion, which is now somewhere below 48 billion. >> but we're not quite sure. maybe, maybe 20 something billion, we're not entirely sure. >> looks like there will be additional, maybe 1 or £2 billion a year invest in making people's home energy cheaper. the other thing that the labour party is proposing is abandoning the ridiculous tory ban on onshore wind, which is one of the cheapest forms of energy. now, coming to your point about storage, i mean, actually having a battery and a solar panel in every house is a good idea. >> my bill expensive though not necessarily and not funded. >> not necessarily. it's around 6 to £8000 per household. that's a lot of money for a household. so we do three things. we subsidise the poor. we actually give interest free loans to the middle class and we require the rich to do it. >> so that's more taxes to pay

for it a tax. >> no, i would actually argue that what we need is, is changing to our bills at the moment . poor people pay higher moment. poor people pay higher cost per unit because they pay a standing charge. what we should do is abolish the standing charge for poor people and actually put a premium on high use, like the rishi sunak who's got an electric swimming pool. >> but it isn't the issue building nuclear power stations to power rich people in 2020 doesn't make sense. >> when the price of energy went up, there were lots of calls from think tanks actually on the centre right saying, let's do a targeted approach, let's subsidise those who are worst off and let the rich pay more in the end, the labour party and the end, the labour party and the conservative party both said no, we're going to cap the unit price of energy because it's just too complicated to do a cut off to subsidise the poor and make the rich pay more. both parties said that they couldn't do that in practice and if they were to, then you would get some really difficult edge cases, some deeply unpopular edge cases. it would be the squeezed middle being squeezed yet again. >> well, the first thing, the first simple step they could all

take is to abolish the standing charge. it's a poll tax on on poor people's electricity bills . poor people's electricity bills. you take that out first step. that removes £150 from everybody's bills and allows poor people to have access to . poor people to have access to. we need to electrify our household heating. how do we do that? we do three things. we ramp up renewable energy, which is the cheapest form of energy. secondly we ramp up storage and renewable energy. the cheapest form, according to most almost almost every according the international energy it is almost everywhere in the world. a report came out this week . a report came out this week. >> why then do we have a windfall tax on north sea oil and gas? but we don't have a windfall tax on on our wind farms. the government on the east anglian case, the government did impose a windfall tax up after around six months to a year after they imposed the in tax on, on fossil fuels. >> they did on, on the on the, on renewable energy. well what they didn't do is with fossil fuels, they gave a huge loophole to allow that. if you invest in new fossil fuels in the north sea, which is very unpopular with the public, they gave they

gave a loophole there, but they didn't give the same loophole to renewable energy. again, hammering loophole energy, which is why so many tory supporters who are in favour of renewable energy, who are in favour of a carbon free britain, are moving to, to the to the labour party. the most extraordinary polling came out recently that for people under 50, the tories are now third after the green party. >> no, it is extraordinary. the conservatives have managed to sort of say we're going to do net zero and annoy some of the anti—net zero people, but in the same breath say we're going to do net zero slightly more slowly and then annoy some of the pro net zero people. i do wonder, though, every single policy proposal that you have raised here, whether it's adjusting the standing charge or, or, somehow enabung standing charge or, or, somehow enabling families to pay £8,000 for a big battery in their loft. these all cost a lot of money. >> well, if you're if you've got a £2 million home, investing 8 to £10,000 on making it renewable, everyone has a £2 million home. lots of people have. and we need to make the rich one. >> you might you might be living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that most people have £2 million that i said, there are

many rich people who have £2 million, of course poor people don't have £2 million. homestar, why would anybody say that? well, then it's not a policy proposal for the whole country. no, but what i'm saying, there's three bands. the rich have to do it. and in stall it, the middle class get an interest free loans and the poor need to be subsidised. >> i want to commend you on being much more detailed this evening than i'm afraid. we've yet seen from either party in terms of their proposals for decarbonisation, particularly for backfilling when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow. but coming up, a new poll ahead of the 80th anniversary of d—day has found that less than half of brits know what d—day refers to or, at least that's young brits. i'll be joined by two historians to discuss how history is taught in this

good evening. now the countdown to the 80th anniversary of d—day is on. of course, that's on

thursday. now, earlier, veterans set sail from portsmouth to normandy ahead of the commemoration. but get this, a new people's poll from gb news has found less than half of brits know what d—day refers to . brits know what d—day refers to. know that it refers to the beginning of the allied liberation of europe, perhaps more concerningly only 31% of 18 to 24 year olds actually know what d—day refers to . well, with what d—day refers to. well, with me now is the historian and former board member of the international churchill society, rafe heydel—mankoo, and the historian and podcaster oliver webb carter oliver, we'll start with you. how important is it to keep the memory of d—day alive? >> oh, it's vital, absolutely vital. and so i'd argue that the poll itself is, is mistaken. the question talks about the beginning of the allied liberation of europe, which actually took place in sicily july 43rd, just under a year before d—day. so i'm surprised that the polling has asked that

question. >> of course, the sicilian invasion was, was was accompanied with much espionage venerated in the, in the, in the, in the new movie of operation operation mincemeat, the west end musical about it as well. i suppose that is keeping the flame of that story alive as well. yeah. >> and these, these shows do really well. and i think there is a fascination to the second world war, 18 to 34, 18 to 24 year olds. that's an age bracket that it's a i'm a glass half person full. so i would like to think that as they get older, they'll get more and more interested in things like operation mincemeat. >> well, rafe, do you hold the same optimism or do we need to do more to, to get the next generation really listening to these stories? because what i found so moving about perhaps the last few days of veterans returning to the normandy beaches and making that journey, is that it was 80 years ago. there were fewer and fewer of these people left. >> this generation of youth are

probably the last ones who were ever going to be able to engage with veterans , is going to with veterans, is going to become, for the youth of today, what the boer war was for people of my generation within the space of a decade or two. >> you know, i went to my first d—day commemoration in 1984 when i was eight years of age. so i'm deeply disheartened when i see these polls. this is just the latest of a long series of polls over the last ten years showing the inability of a majority of adults as well, to understand all of this. and you can't be an informed and engaged citizen of the world today if you don't know how the world about you came to be. if you don't understand the development of our history, of our culture, of our history, of our culture, of our society, and most importantly, if you don't understand how the freedoms and liberties we enjoy today were hard won and the struggle to preserve those. and so the reason that we commemorate that d—day is to honour those veterans who gave their today for our tomorrow and for the fact that they risked and in many cases, actually sacrifice their lives to secure our

freedoms, our peace, our security and our democracy. and we should actually really be asking in what way are we carrying on that legacy today? and that, i think, is the challenge we face in the future. >> is it a challenge? oliver >> is it a challenge? oliver >> well, i think that, you know, you've mentioned films. there are plenty of tv shows as well. we saw dunkirk, the christopher nolan film . i think younger nolan film. i think younger audiences have the opportunity to engage here. i'm as i say, i think that perhaps more than half of the respondents were thinking of sicily. when and therefore, do you think that's an overly churchillian view? >> of course, he referred to it as the soft underbelly of europe . stalin didn't view it that way. he was urging the allies to make the make the french assaults. it was . assaults. it was. >> and actually, it makes for a great what if. i always think that had we not gone in in june 44th, waited a little bit longer , the soviet union, the red army would have would have advanced further into europe. and so who can tell where that would have

ended? >> and of course, to the poles particularly, perhaps at the end of the second world war, wasn't a liberation . they didn't get a liberation. they didn't get their liberation until 1989, 1990. >> that's right. much of eastern europe as well. so so yeah, i think that the second world war i think the other thing to point out is that the d—day, whilst a vital operation and a massive success, it was the largest amphibious landing in human history . indeed, indeed, but it history. indeed, indeed, but it was an a particular operation dunng was an a particular operation during the war and i think if, if you were to flip it and ask many respondents , such as me on many respondents, such as me on a scientific question, i would probably not be able to tell you the medical table, the chemical table term for h2 for water or something like that. you just did it. well, that's water. ask me lead and i won't know. ipp. >> well done. there you go. rafe are we being too specific with these questions that we're pulling young people, they know what the second world war is. do

they need to know every operation? >> i think so, i should say my great uncle was adc to the poush great uncle was adc to the polish president in during the second world war, based in london here. so the polish question very, very important to me and my family. we couldn't go back to poland after. that's why i'm still here in this country, but, you know, a majority of british schoolchildren do not know who winston churchill is. really? a quarter of british schoolchildren believe he is a fictional character like sherlock holmes. those are the challenges we're facing. so, yes , it's lovely to say there are films to watch, but the failure is what our education system. we only teach history till the age of 14. in this country, on the continent, it's to the age of 15 or 16 to the age of 14 is far too short a period of time to teach the broad sweep of our history, particularly when you also are teaching children about the mayan civilisation or african or islamic civilisations. we need to extend the curriculum to the age of 16. primary school teachers only get six hours of teaching in history in a one year course, and there are very few specialist teachers now in secondary schools. so the

problem is with our education system , very limited time. system, very limited time. >> but oliver, should we be having more mandatory history at schools? >> you will never hear me arguing against that . arguing against that. >> well there we go. thank you for keeping it so short and brief because we have come to the end of the programme. but don't you worry, there is so much more to come on gb news this evening, not least the reaction show for the debate tonight. you won't want to go anywhere because after all, all the action and all the reaction is right here on gb news. so stick with us. not only is patrick christys going to be coming back with all of that information, but also ben leo is going to be there for us and a live studio audience for gb news at our main studios. so stick with us. and of course, i'll be back here on state of the nation at 8 pm. tomorrow. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb

news. >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update. some rain to come . parts update. some rain to come. parts of the southeast and the far northwest, but otherwise clear skies will develop this evening andifs skies will develop this evening and it's going to be a cold night. that's because this cold front is pushing south and eastwards through the rest of the evening, and behind it we've got much colder air arriving and clearer skies as well. so some rain for at first this evening across the southeast, but it will turn much drier through the night, and i think most of us will see a dry and clear night away from the far northwest, where frequent, quite heavy showers will continue to push in through the night. it's going to be a much fresher start to the day tomorrow. we could be down into the low single figures rurally and the higher single figures for many towns and cities, but there will be a fair amount of sunshine around, particularly across eastern areas. so eastern scotland could see a bright start to the day. but across the west there's a big difference. across scotland, some frequent, very heavy, possibly thundery showers . possibly thundery showers. there's a risk of some hail,

possibly some hill snow across scotland as well. showers will continue to push into parts of northwest england , north wales northwest england, north wales as well, but the further south and east you are, the more likely you are to stay dry through wednesday and i think it will stay fairly bright, particularly across the south coast into eastern areas of england as well. through the day. there is a risk of the odd shower developing into more central areas of wales, parts of the midlands, possibly by the afternoon. but it's really northern areas that will see the most frequent showers through wednesday . but they for most of wednesday. but they for most of us it's going to be a much cooler day. temperatures only reaching 11 or 12 degrees across northern areas, 16 or 17 across the south. it will still feel fairly pleasant in the sunshine across the south, but for many of us, a cold northwesterly breeze, and that will continue as we head into thursday as well. another very similar day. a fresh start with showers moving in from the north and west. staying much drier though across the south and the east. still showers to come for northern areas on friday, but by saturday it looks much drier and brighter and a little bit

warmer. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. >> hello and welcome to a very special patrick christie's tonight. >> it's cutting taxes, cutting migration , or cutting your migration, or cutting your energy bills. it's the conservatives in me that are going to deliver that. >> i'm looking forward to the opportunity to speak directly to voters through the debate to and put our case. >> it's the leaders debate . the >> it's the leaders debate. the verdict at 10 pm. we'll be going live to the spin room with our political editor, christopher hope. he's got tory minister johnny mercer and labour frontbenchers as well. there's plenty more to get stuck into today . into today. >> we will on july the 4th, win

this seat