news. >> good evening. i'm tom harwood, deputy political editor of gb news, bringing you the state of the nations, 2024 election coverage tonight . the election coverage tonight. the labour party has accused the prime minister of lying about a starmer government increasing taxes by 200 by £2,000 per household . so has what seemed to household. so has what seemed to be a victory for rishi sunak backfired. sir keir said last night he would never use private healthcare to help a loved one off a waiting list, even if that was the only way forward. is this principled or callous? the king has paid tribute to d—day veterans ahead of tomorrow's 80th anniversary of the largest amphibious invasion in history. we're going live to normandy very shortly. plus, as nigel

farage has milkshake thrown over him, we'll be discussing the dangers of political violence with someone who's experienced it first hand. state of the nafion it first hand. state of the nation starts now . nation starts now. i'll also be joined in the studio by my panel associate commentator at the telegraph, mumtaz ahmed , and the historian mumtaz ahmed, and the historian and broadcaster tessa dunlop. state of the nation starts now . state of the nation starts now. >> tom. thank you. good evening to you. well, the top story tonight from the gb news room is that vaughan gething in wales has lost a vote of no confidence in his leadership in the senate , in his leadership in the senate, something he's called a desperate gimmick by the conservatives. the first minister's been criticised over accusations of accepting donations from convicted

criminals and misleading the covid inquiry over deleted messages. he was defeated in the welsh parliament because two of his labour colleagues were sick and didn't vote. but mr gething says he will not be stepping down. >> he was an exercise in muck throwing, the range of different things that were said that members know are simply not true is really quite disgraceful. i'm going tonight to normandy. i should have been in portsmouth today honouring our d—day veterans. i will go to normandy to do my duty for my country. as any first minister should. that means a long drive overnight to arrive, to do the right thing tomorrow . that's how i feel tomorrow. that's how i feel about serving my country and that's my intention now and for the future . the future. >> vaughan gething speaking this afternoon. well, regarding those d—day commemorations, both his majesty the king and queen camilla were both visibly upset

heanng camilla were both visibly upset hearing about veterans experiences of d—day during their commemorative events they attended earlier. the royal couple have been in portsmouth to mark 80 years since the world war ii operation began, while princess anne has attended a service in france. speaking earlier today, his majesty paid tribute to veterans, saying their stories could not fail to inspire the nation . inspire the nation. >> let us once again commit ourselves always to remember, cherish and honour those who served that day and to live up to the freedom they died for by balancing rights with civic responsibilities to our country . responsibilities to our country. for we are all eternally in their debt . their debt. >> king charles, now the statistics watchdog , says it's statistics watchdog, says it's looking into allegations made by rishi sunak that a labour government would push up taxes

by £2,000 over a four year penod. by £2,000 over a four year period . the pair are clashing period. the pair are clashing over alleged black holes in financial plans. sir keir starmer and rishi sunak, that is . but until manifestos are published, the numbers aren't clear . rishi published, the numbers aren't clear. rishi sunak claims treasury officials came up with the figure. but sir keir starmer's called the prime minister a liar. starmer's called the prime minister a liar . well, in more minister a liar. well, in more exclusive election news, sir keir starmer, as you've been hearing, has also defended his choice to rely solely on the nhs , despite his £128,000 a year salary as an mp and opposition leader. in an interview with gb news, the labour leader said he was unwavering in his confidence in the health service and referenced the life saving treatment his mother had received in earlier years. he said it was the nhs that pulled her through. >> every time i grew up with my mum's suffering, she was extremely ill, she nearly died several times and she was treated on every occasion by the nhs on an urgent basis. i have

100% confidence in the nhs and thatis 100% confidence in the nhs and that is why i wouldn't use anything other than the nhs and i wouldn't for my relatives. but this is a lived experience for me because as i was growing up, particularly when i was a teenager, i was in the high dependency unit with my mum and we nearly lost her a number of times, but she was absolutely clear that it was the nhs that pulled her through every time i say thank you to them and i would use them and when you. >> well, also on the campaign trail today, the liberal democrat leader, sir ed davey, has been calling for regular mental health mots. it comes as he was forced to apologise for a speeding offence after he was caught doing 73 miles an hour in a 60 mile an hour zone on the m1 , when he says he paid a fine and had three points added to his licence . some quick space his licence. some quick space news for you. boeing's troubled starliner capsule has at last taken to the skies with two astronauts on board. let's show you the moment it's thundered to life and roared off the launch

pad . khalife . pad. khalife. always impressive. a previous starliner mission, though at the weekend, delayed by a last minute fault. so cheers. today in the control room as today's flight went into space. it's the company's first attempt to fly its spacecraft with astronauts on board to the es as it steps up its competition with elon musk's spacex. that's the news for the latest stories. do sign up to gb news alerts. scan the qr code on your screen or go to gbnews.com/alerts. >> thank you polly. now welcome back to state of the nation . so back to state of the nation. so the first debate has been fought, and the prime minister's key tactics seem to revolve

around the claim that labour would increase the average household's taxes by £2,000 a yeah >> inflation is back to normal, wages are growing. taxes are now being cut. keir starmer would put all that progress at risk . put all that progress at risk. he would put up everyone's taxes by £2,000, £2,000 in higher taxes for every working family in our country. taxes for every working family in our country . after all the in our country. after all the hard work and sacrifice we've been through, that's not the right course of action. i don't know why you want to put up people's taxes. >> the conservative campaign seemed to think of this as a bit of a strategic win, with the tory party twitter accounts taking full advantage . well, the taking full advantage. well, the message from the conservative party is clear. as we can see in this twitter video, an enormous piggy this twitter video, an enormous piggy bank floating across the sky of a major uk city. the cost of the labour party . well, as of the labour party. well, as rishi sunak said last night, if you want to vote, labour, you'd better start saving. but the question is, is that really

true? rishi sunak claimed these figures came from impartial civil servants in the treasury, but it has since emerged that's not entirely the case. while it is true that civil servants at the treasury did review some of labour's plans, the £2,000 tax claim comes from a document called labour's tax rises , which called labour's tax rises, which was put together by conservative advisers only in part using costings produced by the treasury. this morning, the bbc obtained a letter from the permanent secretary to the treasury, james bowler, to the labour party, claiming that tory ministers were told those claims should not be presented as being having produced by the civil service. but the key point is that labour hasn't yet published its manifesto , so it's really its manifesto, so it's really impossible to say how accurate the claim is until they do, people might say these are dirty tncks people might say these are dirty tricks from the tories , although tricks from the tories, although on fairness. on the other side of the fence, labour does precisely the same thing. this was shadow chief secretary to the treasury, darren jones last week. >> well, the conservative party

has set out a number of policies in this first week of the general election campaign, which is over £70 billion of unfunded spending commitments , very spending commitments, very tenuous claims. >> they're being made by the shadow chief secretary . but shadow chief secretary. but since repeated by shadow cabinet colleagues . yet, just as with colleagues. yet, just as with the tories costing labour before their manifesto is published, this is labour doing precisely the same thing . the tories are the same thing. the tories are yet to publish their manifesto too, so to try and clear up this almighty mess, i spoke to the city minister, bim afolami, earlier this evening . city minister, bim afolami, earlier this evening. bim afolami treasury minister, there's been a lot now today about the issue of costings about the issue of costings about the issue of costings about the issue of tax. the labour party is accusing accusing you of lying . accusing you of lying. >> well, i'm afraid we're not lying. we're being incredibly straightforward. and frankly, the labour party, if they had been honest with people in the debate yesterday, if keir starmer had been honest with people or indeed if they were honest with people before or after the debate, they wouldn't

be in the trouble that they're in. it's because they want to hide. they want to hide the fact that they are planning over £2,000 of tax rises for working families, and that is wrong. >> it was an extraordinary moment this morning when a letter was published, was revealed from the permanent secretary to your department, the permanent secretary to the treasury, asking your government to not use this £2,000 figure, to not use this £2,000 figure, to not use the annual £38 billion figure, saying that this wasn't compiled by the treasury. it includes costings that didn't come from the treasury. is it wrong to use that figure? >> no it's not, and actually that's not what he said . what he that's not what he said. what he said was there were in fact a majority of the of the costings that were done came from treasury analysis. not all of them. some came from other. i've got the quote, some come from hold on, some comes directly from james bowler is costs beyond those provided by the civil service and published onune civil service and published online by hmt.

>> you're using costs beyond those that the civil service provided you. >> but we never, ever said that the overall £38 billion figure was a treasury analysis that was done by analysis from the conservative party, but that analysis was done using independent civil service. independent civil service forecasts . in addition, by the forecasts. in addition, by the way, to labour party's numbers themselves , this is opened up to themselves, this is opened up to themselves, this is opened up to the accusation that the party is lying. >> the shadow chancellor said as much earlier today the shadow chancellor is not being straight i >> -- >> she has had every opportunity over the last four years or so. she's been shadow chancellor to set out her plans for the tax rises that that they're planning for the british people that we have clearly documented is going to be just over £2,000 per working family. if keir starmer has another number, he should come out and present it because there are 27 costings there that are done mostly independently by treasury civil servants. also labour party own figures and

other government departments. the key reason why they've spent the whole of today trying to obfuscate is because they know that keir starmer has been rumbled and that that that fact is why they're panicking, because rishi sunak in the debate yesterday gave keir starmer every opportunity to explain where his tax rise is going to land, how much extra borrowing he wanted to do in order to fund his promises and he refused to do so. keir starmer said that there will be new taxes on schools, that there'll be new taxes on non—doms, and there will be new taxes on the oil and gas sector. >> those are three areas where he was explicit that there will be tax raises from the labour party, it's simply wrong to say he didn't say that the labour party wouldn't raise specific taxes , but the sheer number of taxes, but the sheer number of things that those three comparatively small taxes are supposed to pay for, is, is just so many. >> you can even list them on this programme . the key thing is this programme. the key thing is this programme. the key thing is this labour has been rumbled .

this labour has been rumbled. they are planning tax rises of more than £2,000 for working people. and it's an in an election campaign. they have to be honest with people about how thatis be honest with people about how that is going to impact their finances. >> isn't the problem with the conservative party doing this sort of analysis of the labour party that also the labour party is doing this sort of analysis of the conservative party. they say that you have a £70 billion black hole in your finances. >> i mean, i have no idea where on earth they came up with that number. i suspect they came up with it with the same place that they're saying that we're not being straight about their £2,000, you know, working families tax rise . everybody families tax rise. everybody knows the truth, right? everybody knows we're doing this now in an interview. everybody in westminster, all senior politicians know the truth, which is starmer has been rumbled and they have been planning this tax rise on working families to fund their priorities, not the priorities of the british people, to fund the labour party's priorities and rishi sunak in the debate

last night showed the country that that was their plan. >> most economists say that whoever is elected as the next government will need to raise taxes, that no one sums really add up. and doesn't it take the biscuit when conservatives stand here saying the labour party will raise taxes? after all, it's been the conservative party over the last two and a half years that has frozen tax thresholds , dragged people into thresholds, dragged people into higher tax brackets and therefore , issued high, high tax therefore, issued high, high tax rises on ordinary working people. >> but there's a difference, a very big difference because of covid, this country had to spend over £450 billion protecting the people. the government had to spend over £450 billion because of putin's illegal war in the ukraine, the government had to spend over £90 billion supporting people's paying their energy bills. the difference is we yes , taxes did rise in order we yes, taxes did rise in order to help pay some of that back, because we all know that nothing comes for free in this world. but we've now committed to a

path to bring taxes down and bnng path to bring taxes down and bring growth and economic growth up.the bring growth and economic growth up. the labour party wants to do precisely the opposite. tax is up, growth down, and that is the wrong path for our country at this juncture. >> it's true to say the conservatives are announced a shift in those frozen thresholds for retirees so that the state pension will not be taxed . but pension will not be taxed. but you haven't made the same commitment to those in work. why not? >> well, our priority in the treasury, i can tell you, has always been to cut taxes for working people. that's why we've taken a third of national insurance, a third in the last two fiscal events, the budget this year and the autumn statement last year. so that is our priority. we've been very clear about that. but it's also true to say that people who are retired need security and dignity in their retirement. that's why the triple lock, we've increased it by about 9% or sorry, forgive me, almost 9. in april and we're making sure now that the basic state pension

will never be taxed . the labour will never be taxed. the labour party, that's another tax. sorry, i forgot about that. the labour party wants to tax the bafic labour party wants to tax the basic state pension for pensioners in this country. their retirement tax was the conservative party policy until about a week ago. >> no, no, but. >> well, no, but this is, this is really important because the only reason why this why we've had to make sure that the basic state pension shouldn't be taxed is because we've raised the state pension by enough that now it's coming up to that level. and so we're making sure that that mostly to catch up with inflation. but the older people, we are not out of time in their retirement. thank you. labour will put their retirement tax on older people. >> thank you very much for joining us bim afolami. thank you. cities minister speaking a little bit earlier. but let's get reaction now with the senior market fellow, the senior fellow at the social market foundation, sharon a&e nanda, and their head of campaigns at the taxpayers alliance, elliot keck, shira, what did you make of what the city minister had to say? he's

pretty adamant that the labour party will have to raise taxes in to order come up with its, its funding. >> well, i think that's the bigger question behind this whole debate about the dossier is, you know, i think there's quite a lot of agreement that we're going to need to tackle the shortfall in public spending across our public services. and labour have said they want to go in the direction of investment, and they've said that's going to be fully costed , how that's be fully costed, how that's going to be funded and potentially from borrowing and some from taxes and the conservatives have said they want to go down the path of tax cuts. and i think investment is a better way to deal with the situation we find ourselves in than going down the path of tax cuts. so i'm not really sure what the conservatives plan is there. >> i do get the sense that both parties here are seemingly suggesting that they'll get more money from limited taxation than they actually will. is your assessment that both of these parties potentially will actually be raising more tax than they're saying? >> well, i think we have to wait till the manifestos come out. but i think, you know, if one party is promising to go down

the path of investment and the other is to go down the path of tax cuts, then it's not clear that the conservatives are going to be in the same boat of having to be in the same boat of having to come up with taxes to fund investment if they're not making the case for that investment in the case for that investment in the first place. but then they're not answering the question of how they're going to deal with the crisis in public spending that's going to follow that. >> eliot keck taxpayers alliance, this is an interesting point for the conservatives to be making, because, after all, for the last two and a half years, we've seen tax rise after tax rise from this government. >> yeah. and listen, you know, the irony is that all the labour party has to do to increase taxes is to stick with existing fiscal plans that the conservatives have already laid out under existing fiscal plans that the conservative government had brought in the obr projects that the tax burden is going to go that the tax burden is going to 9° up that the tax burden is going to go up to an 80 year high by the end of the decade. another percentage point on gdp. so the great irony is that the reason why labour are going to have these additional resources is additional revenue to spend on their priorities is precisely because of conservative tax plans , which, you know, plans, which, you know, obviously we oppose. >> it's interesting, though, we've talked a lot about this, this triple lock plus idea , the

this triple lock plus idea, the idea that thresholds will be raised for those in retirement under the conservatives. that's created clear blue water between the two parties. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> it has in clear blue water that i'd argue is probably inappropriately created. i think we need to prioritise people who are in work, people who are actually generating economic growth. i mean, if you look at, let's say, the 40% tax threshold, it's barely budged since the conservatives came to power. i think when the conservatives came to power, it was about £42,000. it's now at £50,000. once you take into account an inflation, you know you are dragging in a significant number of relatively ordinary working people. >> well, the labour party has come out swinging today claiming that the prime minister was lying directly lying about this. over £2,000 per household figure. let's listen to what the shadow chancellor, rachel reeves, had to say today. >> well, the letter from the permanent secretary of the treasury confirms what labour had said last night that the prime minister lied in the debate. last night, labour has no plans to increase taxes on

working people . in fact, i have working people. in fact, i have ruled out increases in income tax, national insurance and vat for the duration of the next parliament. >> shreya, do you think that it's credible to say that there won't be any new taxes on working people when the labour party is committed to these frozen tax thresholds that do drag people, working people, into higher tax than they would otherwise be paying. >> i mean, i think labour have said what they've ruled out, and that's increases in vat income tax on national insurance, not against inflation though . yeah. against inflation though. yeah. which is obviously different from saying they're not going to freeze the thresholds. and i think again we have to wait and see what's going to be in the manifesto. but i think we've seen labour change their policies in the past in response to changing fiscal circumstances. so it's possible that we could see that again and, elliott, do you think that this entire conversation is pretty moot because neither of these parties have released their manifestos? >> are we just talking completely complete nonsense ? completely complete nonsense? >> yeah. well, i think this is the hugely frustrating thing is that while it's positive, the

rachel reeves is ruling out increasing the three largest taxes imposed on on working people and british people, more generally, no party is really talking about serious, sustainable tax cuts. and with the tax burden heading to, as i said, an 80 year record high, the highest level that it will have ever been. i think one of the key issues on the agenda of all political parties should be, how are we actually going to reduce the burden of government on the british people? >> it's been an interesting conversation. i'll share and elliott, thank you very much for talking through what is no doubt going to be a conversation in this general election campaign that does run on and on. well, after the break, we'll be continuing our assessment of what's been going on in this general election campaign. turning to the nhs, indeed, something that the leader of the opposition said yesterday and raised this question should people use private health care if they can afford it?

welcome back to state of the nation. i'm tom harwood , and nation. i'm tom harwood, and last night, rishi sunak and keir starmer were asked if they. if they would use private health care. indeed if they would support a family member, a desperately ill family member using private health care. sir keir starmer said this. >> absolutely no. if your loved one was on a waiting list for surgery , no, thank you very much. >> i don't use private health, i use the nhs. that's where my wife works in one of the big hospitals. as i say, it runs through my dna. okay well, keir starmer is a wealthy man. >> he can clearly afford private health care. so should he. if there were a situation where a loved one of his was languishing on a waiting list when there was no other option, should he pay for their private health care? i'm joined now by independent health policy analyst roy lillie because roy , after this debate,

because roy, after this debate, i went back and i rewatched that section and i just had it going around and around in my head. i found it extraordinary that there would be an ideological opposition to the use of private health care, even in a case where it could be life saving. >> i think starmer handled it badly, to be honest. >> but you've got to accept the fact that he spent the last, what, three, four years fighting the left wing of his party. so to suddenly say in public, yeah, i'm going to go , i'm going to go i'm going to go, i'm going to go private with the nhs. >> i mean, i think he'd have had all kinds of grief. >> what he should have said was, look, i'm no different to you. if one of the members of my family was in trouble and the nhs couldn't help, and i had a few quid and i could get it done privately, i'd do it. i imagine a lot of you would do it, but the reason i want to become prime minister is i don't want any of you to do it. i want to change the nhs and improve it.

so there are no waiting lists and we can all use it properly. but he didn't say that. >> and the reason he didn't say that he's not really politician. >> he's a he's a kind of lawyer and a process person. >> and he's not kind of nimble on his feet like you have to be if you're going to be the top man in the top job in the country. >> so he made a mess of it and now he's paying the price for it because everyone's chased him around all day with the same question, are you sure that this was just a misspeaking? >> because he has said the same thing before. in 2021, a video has resurfaced. let me just let me just say this because a video has resurfaced in 2021 of keir starmer talking about his ill mother, where she said, don't you ever, ever use private health, don't you? it seems to be something that is perhaps more to his core in a different way than we would have expected from someone like tony blair. is he simply more ideological about this than other labour leaders in the past? >> maybe he is, but he's going

to be prime minister, and tony blair was a good prime minister and he wouldn't have handled it like that. >> it's the difference between the two personalities. and i mean, i'm an agnostic about the private sector in the nhs. you know, i've run hospitals. i you know, i've run hospitals. i you know, when you've got , people know, when you've got, people you can't treat, you do a deal with the private sector . the with the private sector. the fact the nhs now has more contracts with the private sector than at any time since before covid. i mean, there's a shedload of money and people are going private because waiting lists are in such a shambles. i mean , there's a thing called mean, there's a thing called self—pay in the private sector where people pay for their own, so they're not insured or it's not part of their job and emolument with their job. they they shell out in cold blood. and the reason a lot of people are doing that is that the pension rules changed. and it means now that people, you know, got a pension can dip into it, take a few quid out without being in any kind of tax penalty. and they're getting their hips done or their cataracts or whatever. and the self—pay has gone gangbusters in

the private sector. they're all rubbing their hands, which is why the private sector, the boss of spire health, which is one of the biggest providers of private sector care in the country, said last week he didn't want any more nhs work because nhs work is done at tariff. but but if we charge people for their individual care, it it's done at a premium, a hip on tariff , a premium, a hip on tariff, uncomplicated hip for an otherwise healthy 65 year old is going to cost about ten grand. if you want to try and get it done yourself, they'll charge you 15. so that's why they don't want to do the job. >> it's a very, very interesting point, roy . thank you so much point, roy. thank you so much for the for the technicalities. they're really, really important stuff. roy lilly, independent health policy analyst well, with me now is my panel, the associate commentator at the telegraph , mumtaz ahmed, and the telegraph, mumtaz ahmed, and the historian and broadcaster tessa dunlop . i'm going to start with dunlop. i'm going to start with you. i have i have now watched keir starmer say this again and again and again. does it

keir starmer say this again and again and again . does it reveal again and again. does it reveal something very different? have we got him wrong? is he perhaps not the centrist that he's presenting himself as now ? were presenting himself as now? were his original ten pledges to the labour left, where he pitched himself as the ally of corbyn, perhaps more to his true character . character. >> he's an ideologue and he puts ideology before practicalities . ideology before practicalities. well, he's either that or he's a fool or he's a liar because anyone who's seen a cancelled nhs appointment at the last minute as i have with my mother, knows that feeling of wanting to do whatever you you can. some people can't afford private healthcare, but most sensible people know it's more efficient. it's more efficient because it has a profit motive. that profit motive encourages them to provide operations on time, to give appointments as quickly as possible, because if they don't, they lose money. if the nhs doesn't do these things, it keeps going and they can ask for more money and it gets more inefficient. tessa. >> well , funnily enough, i've >> well, funnily enough, i've got first hand experience with this because my mother needed a hip replacement and she'd overreached herself financially because of other matters and couldn't afford a hip replacement. and she said that

the family that we grew up alongside were more successful in her children because they had paid for their parents hip replacement, and we weren't paying replacement, and we weren't paying for hers. wow so i did a keir starmer and i said, i don't believe in hip replacements. really? on the private mum, why don't you get on the phone, use your sharp elbows and your sharp tongue and squeaky wheels will get served, and within six weeks she'd got a cancellation and she had her hip done. she'd waited six months to a year before that , and boy did i pay for it. it would have been easier to shell out, to be honest. but i actually think what you create is a two tier system. i think the bigger question is, and wes streeting is right, by the way, he needs to buy up the surplus space in the private healthcare. it shouldn't be. you know, tom has done very well with the election. got all that spare cash, you're going to go and get your varicose veins done? i don't want to see that. i'd rather that wes streeting when he becomes health secretary, presumably he will. he's the big hotshot, isn't he? the currently the shadow labour secretary. he buys up the spaces and distributes them evenly. where? i think the question for the nhs

is, is where or what services do you provide? i'll give you an example. my daughter's acne. is that a concern for the nhs or do i that a concern for the nhs or do l pay that a concern for the nhs or do i pay private in cold blood? i love your expert. the way you said that and fork out for it, because i chose to do that because i chose to do that because you're only 1516 once. yeah. and i was staggered by how much it cost. it cost me £340 for an appointment. >> but in many ways, these this is what costs the taxpayer when people do it on the nhs. >> three i know this is the real cost of health. £340 for an appointment with a charming man. and then the and then the subscription. so what do you call them? prescriptions? yes. another £80. >> it really does show us the cost of health. and no wonder billions, tens of billions more into the nhs . it doesn't feel into the nhs. it doesn't feel like it. the cost of health care is expensive . mutaz the phrase is expensive. mutaz the phrase that was used towards keir starmer is if it was the only way forward and the only way forward, would you , recommend or forward, would you, recommend or pay forward, would you, recommend or pay for a family member to use

private health care? and he said no.the private health care? and he said no. the only way forward implies to me there's no other way out that he would rather a family member die than use private health care. >> that's ideology. right? it's really cold blooded . really cold blooded. >> and i think we have to remember his personal backstory, too, where his mother was ill for years, she had a debilitating condition which really impacted the whole family and clearly got very good nhs treatment locally , and that's treatment locally, and that's informed his story. but i don't think he's caught up with is the reality. he lived no longer appues reality. he lived no longer applies because the waiting lists have ballooned. but this was a condition that was if it was a condition that was if it was the only way forward and he still said no. >> yeah, it was really. but just you made an important point there. the nhs dream is dead. it only lives in the minds of people like keir starmer. right? >> i hold on to it when it comes to my mother's head, we already have a two tier system in health where poor people have to wait and the rich can get private health care. >> i'd prefer a two tier system where poor people get good provision and people who can afford insurance , which actually

afford insurance, which actually is quite a lot of people, even those who don't know they can afford it, get insured health care. >> so you want to you want to basically contentious issue, don't you? >> i think that will produce better outcomes for cancer. >> on that note. on that note , >> on that note. on that note, the european french is where exactly we will be going after the break. we're going to be live in normandy. speaking to ellie as the king pays tribute to d—day veterans in advance of that

good evening. this is state of the nation and now straight to normandy, where ellie costello has been throughout the week. ellie, what's the atmosphere like ahead of the 80th anniversary of d—day ? anniversary of d—day? >> well, it's been such a moving day , tom. at the war cemetery day, tom. at the war cemetery today. day, tom. at the war cemetery today . but the juxtaposition today. but the juxtaposition between today and tonight is really quite astounding. you might be able to make out the

crowds of people behind me. it's a carnival atmosphere. it is the celebration of liberation, because this is where d—day started. just after midnight on the 6th of june, 1944, british gliders landed in that field. they took this bridge from the germans and they came and liberated this building. you can see on this sign here. it is the first house in france to be liberated . the fifth and 6th of liberated. the fifth and 6th of june, 1944 is cafe gondry. and i'm delighted to say that i am joined by the first liberated child at the time in nazi occupied france, now known by veterans as madame arlette. it is an absolute honour to have you with us today. what was it like 80 years ago? hearing those sounds and seeing those british troops? well we were aware that he was aware because he was warned by the last british spy just shortly before it was due to happen. >> so we are extremely grateful

that they arrived very quickly . that they arrived very quickly. and i will correct you, if i may. yes, because you were in engush may. yes, because you were in english timing. i was in german timing. so 2316 and indeed two bridges. but the one at the foot of the cafe was the important one to the family, because had the germans succeeded in blowing it up, then the house would have gone up with it and perhaps the family as well. so we are very grateful to the british, who have risked their lives to give us the freedom which we all enjoy today . enjoy today. >> and tell us about what you did with the british troops, because your family did something very special to those men that came in and liberated you. >> that is absolutely right. my father had hidden his wine, his champagne and liquor so the germans would not find it, or he would be forced to sell it. and so in the garden, almost 3000 bottles. but when the british troops arrived, and they were to be comforted also to say thank you to them, daddy said to the

british soldiers who were digging the trenches, dig it up , digging the trenches, dig it up, it's all for you. so that's the reason why the champagne ceremony is specific to the gondry's at cafe gondree and madame arlette, you host the champagne toast every single d—day, now, don't you? >> and she will host the veterans tonight, as you do every year, and toast with your very best bottle of champagne. madame arlette is an honour to meet you today . thank you so much. >> all soldiers of the time. but the young soldiers of today. so i'm very, very thankful for helping me transmit the mission which i carry . which i carry. >> thank you for everything that you do, madame arlette. thank you do, madame arlette. thank you very much. an honour to meet you. so, tom, from cafe gondry , you. so, tom, from cafe gondry, the first liberated house in france tonight . it is a france tonight. it is a celebration of the freedoms that we so enjoy today. >> ellie, thank you so much for bringing us that story. what a magical moment. i can't think of anything more french than 3000 bottles of champagne there for our boys as we liberated that

house behind you, ellie costello , live from normandy. really appreciate it. well, with me is still mutaz ahmed and indeed tessa dunlop . tessa, you've been tessa dunlop. tessa, you've been to normandy on countless occasions . you've been to gold occasions. you've been to gold beach, the main beach where the brits landed . brits landed. >> yeah, i have that. the terrain is fascinating, the stories fascinating . i can't get stories fascinating. i can't get enough of it. there's so many different aspects. there's a brilliant podcast series, actually. tide turns d—day by noise. that's just dropped, with paul mcgann voicing. it's absolutely spellbinding. the drama, the tension. my only fear is that it becomes at the moment the way it's covered. and i'm doing pick of the week friday. of course, i'm listening to all the networks. i'm a little bit wary that are we joining the dots ? what are we choosing to dots? what are we choosing to learn from this? i love the feel good factor stories. we want to hear about champagne buried in french gardens given to british troops, but we also need to bnng troops, but we also need to bring the story bang up to date, because at the moment we've got a line that needs held and it's in ukraine, and at the moment we've got an equivocal america. we've got a guy who says he wants to potentially pull out a

nato, possibly heading towards the white house, and we need to remember, the reason we succeeded on those beaches was because of the alliance between canada, britain, america and so forth. 30 nations, as the king told us today. forth. 30 nations, as the king told us today . and we need to told us today. and we need to work on that collaboration and we need to really reinforce that line in ukraine. >> is there a risk that we learn the wrong lessons from d—day that were too vainglorious about it all? >> i think we need to be more inglorious. i think we need more narrative history and actually here i have an admission to make. which is that up until perhaps a couple of years ago, i didn't know much about d—day at all. >> were you the one who got it confused with dunkirk and the dardanelles? no. too many ds for i said that i also didn't know much about dunkirk until i watched the film. >> i didn't learn much about it at school. i've had to learn outside of school. i think we need more narrative history where we emphasise the things that we did very well, but we do quite a lot of that . quite a lot of that. >> we depends where you watch and where you do enough. >> we need to teach more of it in schools. i think we need to teach a bit less about the

bolsheviks, more about d—day, more about dunkirk, and to make students feel proud about these moments. because, you know, you look at the pictures of the of the veterans. and this is probably the last big celebration, celebration we're going to have with so many people. we really need to , you people. we really need to, you know, get to work on making this an educational thing. >> i hear you, but there's to an extent, if you asked a young person what is a veteran, they would say somebody aged 99 with clinking medals when actually we've got veterans from the falklands, from afghanistan, from northern ireland, from iraq, these conflicts are far more complex, far harder to tub thump about, far harder for the gb news listeners to get gooey eyed over and crack open their own champagne under the counter, but actually so important. we've got stories of asymmetrical warfare, wars that can't be won, and we've also got this war that arguably is the by—product of us arming the russians to the teeth in the second world war, them setting off and getting to berlin before us, should we have gone faster and further and quicker with. >> although, after all, it was stalin urging churchill to get d—day happening early? >> yes. and churchill was very cautious about d—day, which is

interesting. and so we didn't get to berlin as quickly as the russians did. people like poland. we go to war for the polish. they don't celebrate v—e day because their war ends in 1989. >> we were right to ally with the russians . the mistake we the russians. the mistake we made, of course we were, was to not crush them afterwards. >> well, churchill wanted to and there wasn't the will once again from america. >> but could you imagine what would have happened in 1945, in that world weary war? no, you couldn't have done it, that we would have gone further. we would have gone further. we would have gone further. we would have sort of suddenly stopped fighting the nazis. and then pushed on through poland. >> well, i think it's really key to remember is, and this is one of the reasons why the germans got away with it for so long in the late 30s is that we were far keener to our last hours with the national socialist germans, especially the right in britain than the bolsheviks, the grubby little bolsheviks in russia . we little bolsheviks in russia. we loathed the russians. we were not terrified of them, but hugely wary. this was a totally different system. >> we were right to be wary of them. but we should have been more wary of the nazis as well. and one man above all else in parliament was. and his name was winston churchill. but there we

go. when he was chancellor, he was luther's . appreciate your was luther's. appreciate your time. coming up, the author and edhoh time. coming up, the author and editor, andy snow joins us to discuss the consequences of something much current. what is going with regard to political violence

next? good evening. this is state of the nation. now, a woman has been charged with assault by beating and criminal damage after a milkshake was thrown at nigel farage yesterday. the incident happened as the new leader of reform uk launched his constituency election campaign. obviously, with the arrest, it would be improper of us to comment on this particular case much further . however, we much further. however, we thought now would be a good time to discuss attacks on political and public figures. one man, one journalist with personal experience of that is andy neo, the author of the new york times best seller unmasked inside

antifa's radical plan to destroy democracy. andy, thanks for joining us in the studio. first of all, can you tell us what happened with regard to the attack that you faced ? attack that you faced? >> well, back in 2019, i think it was in may was the first time that mr farage had a drink thrown on him. and at that time, the americans were responded, much like a lot of british did. oh, what a is a drink on him. and i think that was my initial reaction to is like a very unpleasant thing to have witness. but then a month after that, when i was documenting a pubuc that, when i was documenting a public demonstration in portland , oregon, where i was living at the time, i was beaten by the mob with people having weapons in their hands and punching me repeatedly on the head. and as i was stumbling to get away from the beating, bleeding from my ears , bleeding from my eyes and ears, bleeding from my eyes and face, then the mob hurled drinks into my eyes to blind me and.

and i suffered a traumatic brain injury from that mob beating . i injury from that mob beating. i was very lucky to survive it. it gave me a whole different perspective on acts of political violence that people minimise . a violence that people minimise. a lot of people in media or activists minimise . lot of people in media or activists minimise. in this country you have hundreds of acid attacks a year. and i think in that context , just having a in that context, just having a stranger come up to somebody and hurl an unknown , unknown liquid hurl an unknown, unknown liquid into one's face, that's when milkshaking is not milkshaking. and i think that's how insidious this whole act is on the outside . it does look like someone's just dumping a drink on you. what's the problem? you don't know who this person is. you don't know what they're throwing at in your face, in your eyes and that act is meant to terrorise an individual, and that it's being done to a political person in your country , i think speaks to the state of democratic culture here.

>> of course, in our culture, in western democratic culture, there's always been egging . there's always been egging. there's always been this sort of perhaps medieval tradition of throwing what rotten fruit at the person that you dis like. is it not too dissimilar from that, after all, we can name many, many politicians. ed miliband , many politicians. ed miliband, david cameron indeed, a look alike of rishi sunak only a couple of weeks ago got egged when the person thought that they were actually egging the real prime minister is there a risk that we over interpret what's going on here? >> no, i think the risk is we're under interpreting what's happening in egg. we know what an egg looks like. we don't know when someone's coming up with a liquid in a container , and that liquid in a container, and that person is a stranger, and throwing that in your eyes, you don't know what that is. >> no. and i suppose that context that you raise of the acid and indeed alkaline attacks as well, attacks with corrosive substances that we've started to see more and more in cities like

london, in our major cities in the uk. it's been a more recent phenomenon. perhaps that's shifted the dial on this. >> i would hope so. on the social media responses i've just been tracking from particularly left wing activists and commentators, it's been disappointing, although not surprising, to see a lot of them minimise and mock the attacks that have happened , and again, that have happened, and again, it's this rhetorical trick. it's just milkshaking it's not just milkshaking, you're blinded and also it encourages other people. i think as people make excuses for it, we may see that people will feel empowered to treat politicians in that way. >> now , you were attacked in the >> now, you were attacked in the united states of america in a in a highly political city. do you sense there's a difference in political culture on this side of the atlantic that things are perhaps less tense than they are overin perhaps less tense than they are over in the united states of america, where you often now

hear talk of almost civil war, things are less tense here. >> but i worry for your country because a lot of the political culture of america does seep into the united kingdom in various ways. and as i said it, your democratic culture is at risk if people continue to normalise acts of violence, it is a slippery slope. one day it's a egg, next it's a milkshake next to some other liquid. then it's not too far from punch. and this is also in the context of people , a mob and the context of people, a mob and somebody taking that initial physical encounter with another person inspires other people to take action as well. well antonio, thank you so much for joining us and talking through your experience above everything else, next up, it's patrick christys patrick, what's on your show? yeah. >> great interview that, by the way, some good stuff. and look, i've got an exclusive about a

protest that's going on at a migrant detention centre, and i am asking whether or not some illegal migrants are actually quite ungrateful, reform a two points behind the tories in the polls at the moment. lee anderson is on to discuss that. would you let a loved one die on the nhs instead of going private? there was a lot made of rishi sunak like ing about tax. what sir keir starmer lying about that police are too afraid of misconduct hearings to make arrests. those are the words of mark rowley. and we go live to normandy to celebrate our greatest generation , our greatest generation, our brilliant stuff. >> patrick, thank you so much for that teaser. will, of course, be with you through from nine. that's it from us on state of the nation tonight . be back of the nation tonight. be back with us tomorrow, of course, from eight, where we'll have the roundup of what is turning out to be perhaps a more exciting and unpredictable general election than was first expected. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello! welcome to your latest

gb news weather update from the met office. tomorrow is going to be another fairly cool day across the northwest, with a risk of some further heavy showers , and we could see some showers, and we could see some further heavy showers this evening with a northwest wind pushing showers into similar areas. its northwest in scotland, where we're going to see the highest rainfall totals through the next 24 hours or so, we could see a mix of hail, possibly some hill snow in there as well. we could also see some showers as far south as southwestern england overnight tonight. many western areas seeing a bit more in the way of cloud tonight compared to last night . so it will be a bit of a night. so it will be a bit of a milder night for some of us, but i think still where skies stay the clearest, there's a risk of a rural grass frost. so potentially another chilly start for some areas, particularly across eastern scotland, where it will be a bright start to the day. plenty of early sunshine, but notice we've got some bright colours on those showers showing the heaviness of them through tomorrow morning. we could see some spray on the roads because of that. across western areas of scotland in towards northwestern england, as well as parts of

wales, the midlands as well potentially seeing some fairly heavy showers but most of us getting away with a dry and bright start, despite the chillier feel to things at the moment. so another fairly cool day to come tomorrow, especially for the time of year. and if you are further north and west, where it will be another showery day , there's another risk of day, there's another risk of thunderstorms, potentially some hail as well in those showers, especially as we head into thursday evening here. elsewhere across wales, central areas of england and across the south coast in particular, they still feel fairly pleasant in the sunshine . feel fairly pleasant in the sunshine. highs of feel fairly pleasant in the sunshine . highs of 18, possibly sunshine. highs of 18, possibly 19 degrees, so that's too not bad for the time of year. now into friday we start to see a band of more persistent rain push across the uk, so that will bnng push across the uk, so that will bring a greater risk of some showery outbreaks of rain. a bit more widely across the uk. so a bit more in the way of cloud and it will still be another fairly cool day. but looking ahead to the weekend does look like there's been more in the way of sunshine, more widely across the country, and temperatures returning to the low 20s. >> for some of us, looks like things are heating up. boxt

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gb news. >> it's 9 pm. i'm patrick christys tonight . migrants kick christys tonight. migrants kick off outside their detention centre. plus i don't use private health. >> i use the nhs. >> i use the nhs. >> would you let a loved one die on the nhs instead of going private and the met chief says that cops are too scared to take on crooks. it's no wonder crime is going through the roof plus. >> or is it can't get up out of that ground and they're the ones . i'm filling up. >> we'll be live in normandy as

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