children, parliament included children, parent, elderly and the disabled. marching outside downing street, protesters waved flags and placards and chanted slogans including in our millions, we are all palestinians as various speakers, including the palestinian ambassador to the uk, gave speeches from a stage outside of parliament. in other news, penny mordaunt clashed with angela rayner over issues including nhs waiting lists and the economy in a televised debate last night. both were reprimanded for speaking over one another, whilst miss rayner received applause after claiming former prime minister liz truss had crashed the economy. >> keir starmer confirmed this earlier this week . they are earlier this week. they are going to put up your taxes by £2,000 by 2000 per working anymore. >> you're using you're using a figure that's been criticised by the uk statistics watchdog costings and labour's own. >> stand by your record and

you'll record levels of taxes on working people. 26 separate tax hikes in the last parliament as you just heard. >> penny mordaunt was criticised for repeating the claim that labour would increase taxes. sir keir starmer now says labour's manifesto is complete and insists there'll be no tax surprises. >> well, we finalised our manifesto yesterday, which was a great moment because at the end of the meeting it was acclaimed by everybody in the meeting and, you know, good manifestos are those that tell a story about the country and those that succeed. everything in our manifesto won't be any surprises on tax. all of our plans are fully costed , fully funded and fully costed, fully funded and none of them involving tax rises over and above those that we've already set out . already set out. >> the prime minister received a warm welcome on home soil this afternoon as he continued campaigning ahead of next month's election. rishi sunak visited the gardens at auckland

castle, where he spent time meeting with volunteers . he also meeting with volunteers. he also spoke to people at a village fete in great ayton in north yorkshire, village in his richmond constituency. it comes after mr sunak faced criticism for leaving a d—day memorial event early. labour has now criticised the prime minister for, quote, ducking the cameras and dodging media questions on the campaign trail. today part of london's ultra low emission zone could be scrapped if the conservative party wins the next election. senior tories say they table a backing drivers bill, which would reverse the london mayor's controversial ulez expansion and rule out any blanket 20 mile an hour zones. the party says the plan would protect drivers from what they call the draconian policies of local labour politicians. latest figures show that 95% of vehicles in the capital are compliant with clean air standards. that's up from 39% in 2017. in other news, more than 2

million cats across england are unregistered just days before a new law takes effect. from monday , all cats will need to be monday, all cats will need to be microchipped before the age of 20 weeks. it's hoped that this new requirement will cut down on the number of lost pets and discourage thefts . but the cats discourage thefts. but the cats protection charity says more than 2 million felines remain unchipped, and they're now urging people to act quickly to protect their furry friends . and protect their furry friends. and veteran film star dick van dyke has made history as the oldest ever winner of a daytime emmy award. the 98 year old star of classics including mary poppins , classics including mary poppins, took home a trophy for a guest appearance on the long running soap opera days of our lives. he joked that he'd been playing old people for his whole career, and he said winning the award tops a lifetime of 80 years in the business. for the latest stories, sign up to gb news

alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts. now back to the saturday five. >> it's saturday night and this is the saturday five. i'm darren grimes along with albie amankona benjamin butterworth, doctor renee honerkamp and ella whelan. tonight on the show farage beasts bbc debate claiming that men have ovaries is degrading may the walk be with you yet again. di ruins another franchise. >> hippie greens have ignored the maternity scandal, and i'm speaking up for the elderly . speaking up for the elderly. >> i think we should let people over the age of 80 stay in the house of lords. it's 6 pm. and this is the saturday five. >> a very warm welcome to the

saturday five with me, darren grimes. order is restored . i'm grimes. order is restored. i'm back and ready to make, well, more noise than penny mordaunt and angela rayner. i mean, they got up to it last night, didn't they? right, folks? the premise of this show is very simple. each host gets 60s to outline their argument about a chosen topic. then we all pile in and the fur starts to fly. and of course we want to know your views as well. send your views and post your comments by visiting gbnews.com/yoursay i'm in it. get involved right? let's get this show on the road. who's going to lead us off tonight? >> i'm going to be leading us off tonight. i'm back. and guess who else was back last night? nigel farage, the newly minted leader of the reform party, was the clear winner of the bbc's election debate last night, according to the bbc's own polling done by the think tank called more in common.

apparently, according to the polling, 24% of bbc viewers watching the debate last night thought that nigel farage won the debate. he did get one particular stinger in when he called keir starmer something quite funny. we're just going to get that clip for you right now. it's hilarious. >> i think this has been one of the worst general election campaigns so far between the two main parties i've ever seen in my lifetime . it isn't just that my lifetime. it isn't just that their leaders are dull or don't clearly, well, very dull. in the case of labour, i mean sort of sort of blair without the flair. i mean, the real leader of the labour party is here tonight on the stage. at least she's got some personality. vie, blair, without the flair in deed. what does this mean for the troubled tory leader, rishi sunak ? what tory leader, rishi sunak? what doesit tory leader, rishi sunak? what does it mean for the labour party? who knows? but there was one clear winner of last night's debate and that was nigel farage. benjamin butterworth blair without the flair . blair without the flair. >> oh, look, it's good to have you back on the show. i know

that you were the future once . that you were the future once. now, miaowi i watched this debate last night, and i have to say, i'm not sure if i didn't have to, whether i would have. i think it was very difficult for any of them to make a real impact when you have a seven way, and i don't think having wales and scotland's leaders in there made much sense, because most of us can't do anything with that information. they should do ones for the, for the, for the devolved nations, i think. but look, farage has this advantage that he can almost be advantage that he can almost be a commentator on that stage. he can just point out the problem, and no one really expects him to offer a resolution, because that's not the position that he's in. i think actually, angela rayner came across very well, and i suppose i would say that, but i thought she was much more put together, much more impactful than maybe i had expected, but the truth is, none of it mattered, because the only thing anyone's heard is that catastrophic d—day comment behaviour by rishi sunak and the apology, the comment by penny mordaunt. and i think once she'd had to apologise to the prime minister, the rest of the debate was was going to have little

impact. >> if we think about the fact that penny mordaunt was in that debate, a brexiteer l.a, that penny mordaunt was in that debate, a brexiteer la, and she actually was not able to answer the question on migration, i think particularly well. in fact, she started talking about the conservatives cutting taxes before she got on to migration. why do you think she was so flustered by that question? >> well, one, they're obsessed with tax. i actually tweeted saying, please just stop talking about tax. it's not that it's not an important issue, but it's the place where politicians feel safe because it's not very interesting. they can't do very much with it. and there's nothing revolutionary going to come out of a conversation about tax. but with the immigration issue, obviously penny mordaunt issue, obviously penny mordaunt is aware as many conservatives are, that they've monumentally failed in all their attempts to poor attempts to get to grips with it. and unlike farage, who was a kind of natural political animal, he made this quip at the end about i don't need an autocue, which was funny, but true because you i mean , i true because you i mean, i thought angela rayner looked terrified when she was giving her last speech, you know,

really wanting to. she did a bit script and it just didn't feel natural. whereas, i mean, i don't agree with his politics, but he's somebody who has an ideology and he's he gets it. and i think that's why he's able to just quite authentically put it, put his view forward . it, put his view forward. >> and i think that's the key. i don't think, benjamin, that he did so well just because he can stand there and say whatever he wants. i think he did so well because he can stand there and speak without having to have cards. you saw the green party leader having to look at her cards throughout her sentence. she couldn't say one sentence without looking at her cards. he speaks naturally. he speaks to what the man on the street actually believes. and here's that's why he's a natural, and that's why he's a natural, and that's why he did so well. >> and he's been doing it for 30 years. you know, almost as long as you've sort of disgraced this planet, you know, like like the fact that he says, i'm not a career politician. >> he's been doing it for 30 years. he's definitely a career politician, but, you know, i just also wonder whether there's something else in this, which is thatis something else in this, which is that is the ability of them to perform on a stage like that. is it not a mistake that we make so much judgement on whether they'd

be good at running the country, on whether they have fast quips on whether they have fast quips on a debate stage. haven't we seen that with the likes of bofis seen that with the likes of boris johnson, who's clearly a brilliant debater but wasn't qualified for the role of prime minister? >> i think it's not just the performance aspect, it's that he is he and again, i just i really is he and again, ijust i really for example, i was really angry that the only rebuttal to him was stephen flynn calling him a bigot. i mean, it was just this useless. it's plays exactly into farage's hand. i wanted someone to take him up on the immigration issue on a substantial level. but it's not just a performative thing, it's the fact that he has something that he believes in, whether you agree with it or not. and he's able to articulate it. labour doesn't know what they agree or believe in. the conservatives don't know what they believe in. the lib dems are shaky and the greens want to talk about everything other than climate change. so the whole thing feels weird. >> bizarre? >> bizarre? >> yeah, because nigel did make some claims which have been fact checked afterwards, like his claim that 40% of immigrants are dependents. that has actually been proven to be untrue. that doesn't mean that the question about there being too much immigration isn't a problem. but

darren, do you think he was given too easy a ride by the bbc? >> absolutely not. i think benjamin butterworth did. the casting of that audience. it was so stacked against nigel farage. every time nigel farage spoke, they had this churchill dog like man shaking his head like this. and it was bizarre. every single time he opened his mouth, it cut to this one bloke sat in the front row and i thought, oh well done, auntie beeb . you scripted done, auntie beeb. you scripted that one quite well. yeah, i thought it was very biased. >> you watched, you watched the sdp basically say they want open borders and immigration is not a problem because all of our services are provided by immigrants. and the audience went wild with applause . that is went wild with applause. that is not the view of every man on the street. and then the polling, as you've just mentioned, derby said, oh, he won the debate. >> well, you wouldn't know that, judging by the audience. >> but does it matter about what the audience think if we if we see the polls and actually 24, 25% of brits watching it thought nigel won, 19% thought angela rayner won, and then the rest were really away with the wind. >> it influences people here

heanng >> it influences people here hearing the applause . i think hearing the applause. i think people watching will be influenced by it. >> the thing that struck me was that nobody interrupted him. michelle hussein didn't interrupt him once and she was interrupting other people. none of the all the rest of the politicians were silent. he just got these long times to give his sort of manifesto, which is, i think, because nobody has an answer to it. >> i think it's because they wanted to sort of pretend that he wasn't there. i think penny morton was basically told to just ignore him. wow. i do like to just isolate him, let him rant on a bit, but don't actually argue with in any substance. >> benjamin, was there anything that nigel said in the debate last night that you thought was a decent point? >> benjamin said, get him out, i mean , not that i can recall. no, mean, not that i can recall. no, turn back the boats, but, stop and search. you know, i just think these things are pretty pointless. i don't think i don't think it'll have much impact on the election. and you know, i think some of the politicians rather like the ego of it. i just don't think they will affect the result. but look, you

know, i think one of the notable things is what ella just said, which is that penny mordaunt didn't interrupt, didn't rebut nigel farage at any point. and i thought that was clearly an intentional strategy because they're terrified of him. >> do you think? i actually think rishi sunak should have done that? i agree, i agree, given the backlash to the d—day comments and all the rest of it, i think he should have said, right, i'm going to, take the bull by the horns and actually say to the public, you know, you're all tuning in for this debate to find out what the conservative party standing for. i owe you an apology for what happened yesterday. >> that's almost a very kind of alister campbell tony blair strategy. if you do something wrong, sort of go out in the media and kind of the masochism strategy, i actually think that could have worked for rishi sunak last night, because really at this point, after a gaffe of that big being 20 plus points behind in the polls , he has got behind in the polls, he has got absolutely nothing to lose. all that happened last night was that happened last night was that penny mordaunt went out there looking fantastic , and there looking fantastic, and look at that amazing hair as she did. and we'll talk about that

later on. but it almost looks like rishi sunak is too scared to engage with the public, which is not a place where the prime minister should be all right. >> just to point out, he's refusing to do any interviews today. and so, you know, i think i think he is afraid of the pubuc i think he is afraid of the public now. >> okay. well, now i'm going next. i've decided. all right. you'll just have to deal with it. but i'm going from the political galaxy to a galaxy far, far away, because actually. well it's the walk be with you these days, not the force. be with you and star wars. you know, it was the one thing as a kid that brought me and my brother together pretty close. and i love it with all my heart. but ever since disney took it over , this diversity and over, this diversity and inclusion has ran rampant and throughout it. and actually, we've had, the actress from the latest star wars spin off, a series on disney, actually saying that making white people cw saying that making white people cry was actually what she wanted to do . have a listen. to do. have a listen. >> when people watch the hate u give, what do you want them to

walk away with? because i know everyone has a slightly different feeling. >> well, i mean, white people crying actually was the goal. we >> yeah. so that diversity , >> yeah. so that diversity, eqtu >> yeah. so that diversity, equity and inclusion running rampant throughout hollywood and ruining really good franchises, actually ensuring apparently r2—d2, the little robot, you know, that scoots about and gets on the starships and all the rest of it. apparently that could be a lesbian now. i mean, the whole thing is complete and utter absurd. i don't know why this identity politics has to run rampant through things that we all adore and hold dear. she's half white, this actress. >> this is what i don't understand. she's half danish than half african american. i don't know how you could say. the point of a piece of work that i've just done is to make white people cry. when half of her family are white. >> this is the problem. people and i have skin in this game as you know, with a mixed race child, nobody ever sees a mixed

race child as half white. they see them as black. and so that's probably how she views herself. but aside from that, how have we moved to a point in society where two presenters are on stage laughing to black presenters at making white people cry? >> ella, is there a broader point here that actually we've sort of gone full circle and we're now actually we're saying we're now actually we're saying we used to say that to focus on the colour of someone's skin was rampant racism, and therefore we ought to reject it. now we're saying actually the potentially the only thing that we should nofice the only thing that we should notice about a person is the colour of their skin . yeah. colour of their skin. yeah. >> and, well, it becomes very performative because actually perform ative because actually there's performative because actually there's no when we're talking about diversity, equity , about diversity, equity, inclusion, whatever the, abbreviation is , you know, if abbreviation is, you know, if you want to look at inequality in the film industry or any kind of the arts industries, it's class based . it's not, it's not class based. it's not, it's not identity based. and so they don't really want to have a proper conversation about inclusion . and it becomes this

inclusion. and it becomes this sort of, as you say, identity politics game . and i think the politics game. and i think the main point is that i don't, you know, i don't really think she was actually wanting white people to be sobbing. and it wasn't malicious, but it's just this silly kind of rumination of something that's meant to be entertainment and fun. and i wouldn't go as far as to say, star wars as art. i'm not as elle edwards, but but, you know, it's some it's a bit like marvel or any of these things. it's things that people really enjoy and actually escapism that you go to get away from. yeah. yeah. exactly. the news, the world, into a different story. and yet it has to follow. and i think it's just, it's turning people off. there's a reason why people aren't going to the cinema, but also, is it not? >> we're talking about diversion, equity and inclusion, but actually it's the complete opposite to that. it is, you know, excluding people. it's actually dividing people. once again by the colour of their skin. we are teaching people to not like each other . not like each other. >> i mean, benjamin, as you know, the only reason you're on this panel is because of our diversity, equity and inclusion policies. so you must be in

favour of it all. >> are you am i the token heterosexual ? i'm not. heterosexual? i'm not. >> the >> the audience >> the audience is >> the audience is stunned >> the audience is stunned at home, wife and kids. >> you know, i think that clearly she's making a joke. right? and i thought people like you were meant to say that. we don't. >> director, i'm not saying that she should be cancelled, but the director also said we're going to make it the most gay star wars yet. why does r2—d2 have to be gay? >> well, i mean, look, i've never seen star wars and beyond the very basics. i know nothing about it, and i'm not likely to turn it. the films are like three hours long. it's far too much like commitment for me to be able to cope. >> but you do know who r2—d2 is. >> but you do know who r2—d2 is. >> is that that's the robot, little one. yeah, but aside from star wars specifically. look, i think these films, you know, they've always had these messages in them. it's nothing new. it'sjust messages in them. it's nothing new. it's just that we talk about them more and maybe it's more common to have those messages. but i think that, you know, the idea that you should have diversity of that nature in films is really important because it sets a good example to lots of people that are

watching them. >> are they? do you agree with that? can i just say why? >> why, why, why would it make more sense to say that there should be no character who were gay or lesbian, which is obviously a relatively common characteristic in people, that it is more strange that disney, until only a couple of years ago, had never had a character of that description in any film. >> well, that's because why make a robot gay? >> no, i mean, sorry, i mean, i mean all disney films and cartoons and tv programs there had never been a notably gay character, a you know, one that was explicit. >> but benjamin, then why make why make a robot gay? you know, why make a robot gay? you know, why not make a lead character gay and just have them falling in love with someone in the film? like it's not it doesn't need to be a big thing. we've got to a point in society where it's normal there. >> no, i'm not. >> i'm saying make it authentic. don't just say a robot is gay for the sake of it. >> i agree. all right, folks, still to come tonight labour want to overhaul the house of lords. but how will they do it? we'll find out. you're with the saturday five live

gb news. welcome back to the saturday five, as always. cheers. very much for all of your messages about tonight's topics. now alan has written in. it's the first thing he says on that debate last night. it's the first thing the bbc have got correct. you'll be putting me out of a job. nigel farage won by a mile. he's the only sensible one and the only one with any practical ideas. helen says what? i've just nearly choked on my tea. did benjamin butterworth just say he was sticking up for the elderly? yeah, you'll find out more about that in a second, he's not sending you to rwanda anymore. and john says i don't need the autocue . was a need the autocue. was a brilliant line. and then, dicky, has written in and says, d stands for dead end initiatives. well, here we are now, though , well, here we are now, though, it's well, here we are now, though, wsfime well, here we are now, though, it's time for our next debate. it's benjamin .

it's benjamin. >> it is. and i am here to speak up for the elderly , as i do most up for the elderly, as i do most weeks on this programme, labour is proposing an age limit for people that can be a member of the house of lords. they're saying that when you get to the age of 80, you should lose your post or at the end of the parliamentary term. this is in a bid to deal with the fact that we have just shy of 800 members of the house of lords and some of the house of lords and some of them hardly attend and contribute to public life . now contribute to public life. now look, usually i'm all for the elderly leaving their posh houses to the rest of us, but on this occasion i can't help but think, doesn't it undermine the point of the lords? the idea that you have wisdom and experience against some of the whippersnapper careerists that go into the commons and often don't have much to contribute to national life. so actually, here is where i would say i disagree with the labour party's proposal . i think the idea that you have baroness owens, who's that 20

something year old, 29 year old who is baroness of alderley edge.i who is baroness of alderley edge. i was livid she got that post because i'm from alderley edge and was hoping. i was hoping i'd get that title, but she would be there for 50 years. but someone who's just retired from, i don't know, running m&s, for example, could be gone in a few years. darren. >> just after saint percy pigs with that line. yeah that's true. >> darren what do you think? >> darren what do you think? >> i, i don't agree with it either actually, but i do i because i don't agree that the house of lords should actually be a thing. i would abolish the house of lords. to be honest, i think that it's a, anachronism . think that it's a, anachronism. some of the most grotesque distortion of democracy. really? well, it isn't democracy. it's quite the opposite , i don't quite the opposite, i don't think it works. i think increasingly it's stacked full of cronies, by the way, i mentioned in cronies, i think rishi sunak stacking the house of commons with so—called conservative safe seats from number 10 advisers. those people aren't fit to run a bath. never mind the country, never mind being put in positions of power. so i think the whole thing is an

absurdity. i think the labour party should have been bold and brave and gone ahead with what sir keir starmer actually said he was going to do, which was the abolition of the house of lords. >> but then, wouldn't you be a little bit concerned if there was an elected second chamber, that it would compete with the commons in a similar way to we see the, the, the two houses in the united states of america. look, i take the points on it being anti—democratic. it is, in a way, anti—democratic. there's not really a defence for it, but it does work at doing the job that it's meant to do, which is scrutinise, which is scrutinise the legislation of the commons and should they be fired at 80? yes, i think they should be fired at 80 because the lords is too big and there needs to be a way that we get rid of lords and you can't vote them out. so having some sort of limit on how long you can stay in there seems sensible to me. >> well, i think it's just a just number one to use that overused term. but i mean benjamin ace, by the way, there is i mean, there's a limit to what, you know, when you're in

your 20s compared to what you know, when you're in your 70s, if we're talking about knowledge. but i just don't i think the house of lords should be abolished and don't put anything in its place. labour has always argued that, you know well, keir starmer argued aboush well, keir starmer argued abolish the house of lords, but putting a have a second chamber that was elected, however, which is really not changing very much. the whole point of, you know, commitment to direct democracy is that the house of commons works properly , commons works properly, represents the people properly. they actually politicians actually believe in democracy. and there's a direct relationship there. a second chamber, whether it's hereditary lords, whether it's appointed lords, whether it's appointed lords elected, i don't know knowledgeable people is always going to dilute that direct line of democracy from voter to mp. and so no one actually has the stomach to argue properly for democracy . it's always countered democracy. it's always countered by a second change. >> do you not think if we look, if we look at the past two weeks where both labour and tory have had lots of, workers party workers parachuted to in be politicians, would you not be in danger of having politicians,

you know, in all the worst ways, just filling up the house of lords, whereas now you have people who have, you know, had remarkable achievements in business and in other lines of work, like the arts and stuff that would never put themselves forward for election and failed prime ministers like david cameron. >> i mean, you know, there's it's them. i'm not suggesting that there aren't people in there. my boss at the academy of ideas, claire fox, she's brilliant here, but i'm not suggesting there are. there aren't people in there who don't have knowledge to contribute to a political debate. but it's the fact that they get more of a say than i do. and i'm just an average jane, and they're an appointed lord. that's not fair. >> and we have absolutely no way of influencing that. and i think it's getting to the point now where the public are looking at these young people, 27 going into what is a meal ticket for life, if they turn up every day, it really is. and having what is a 27 year old? no, honestly, i didn't know who i was till i was in my 30s. even now i have my doubts . so i mean, i think it's doubts. so i mean, i think it's ludicrous and i think the public

are slowly becoming more and more tired of it. so i don't think we should retire them at 80. i think we should just retire them all. >> but i don't understand how the labour party have the position of saying a 16 year old is old enough to vote and know well things like their sexual identity, gender identity rather, and things like that. and then also an 80 year old is too old. it seems that there are two extremes, but it's the way to bring down the numbers of lords and ladies in the house of lords that that is the function of this policy. why don't they just stop filling it with their cronies? >> well, that is another way to do it. but the point is, the incentives, once you are political options are running out. not to be benjamin butterworth. you just said you wanted to be the baron of old ledger, and i think baron benjamin butler has got a great ring to the point that i was making is that the incentives once someone is the leader of a party or becomes the prime minister to fill the lords with people that are going to vote through your policies, are their keir starmer will do it. he might say he wants to do all of this. he wants to say he wants

to do all of this stuff to kind of reform the house of lords. he will fill it with his cronies. so way to reduce the number of lords at the top end is to have an age limit on it. and really, why do we want eight year olds to be doing this really quite hard work of scrutinising legislation? >> do they not have more limit would be a better idea. the problem with that? so you have to be reappointed after, say, ten years. i think that would be a better idea. the problem is that then you get these people toeing a party line, which arguably undermines the point of them being you know, a chamber that looks over things. >> so why wouldn't you do what ella said and just scrap it outright? >> well, keir starmer's original idea was made up of people from the nations and the regions, which i don't think is a bad idea because those are people that are engaged in a democratic way on the front line of politics. but in a very different front line. >> but isn't that just what we're doing with the mayoralties, for example? >> it'sjust mayoralties, for example? >> it's just diluting it and diluting it and diluting it. and you mean cronies don't have to be 80 year old lords? they can also be young go getting local

councillors. i mean, there's the problem at the moment is that no politician, whether a appointed or elected anyone involved in politics at the moment, has a real commitment to the idea of direct democracy. so if you don't have that, you always have a problem. >> but do you fundamentally think that unicameral political systems are better, which is when there's just one house, by the way, are better than in the ones where there are two different scrutinisation chambers, you know, will norway, for example, i think is one example of a country where they just have one chamber. do you think democracy works better in norway than it does in the uk or the us? >> well, it's not an automatic fix. obviously. they still have the issue of the fact that the parties at the moment aren't serving the people that they are meant to represent, but if you the more it's a bit like the brexit issue. the reason i was in favour of leaving the european union wasn't was simply because it would allow us to put more direct pressure on our elected representatives here. you didn't have, you didn't you weren't. the british political elite weren't able to say, oh , elite weren't able to say, oh, sorry, not my fault. someone over there. so the more the more

you can have pressure on an elected representative to do their job elected representative to do theirjob in the elected representative to do their job in the way that you want them to do it. i think the more you will get out of politics. so it's not a it's not like a abolish the lords now and everything will be wonderful. i mean, i think we should go for the crown as well. but maybe that's another debate. but it's a, it's about the fact that it gives you a more direct line to put forward the arguments you want and not have it diluted. i mean, take the i'm not a fan of the rwanda plan at all, but i think the fact that the lords made it their business to stop it showed the problem that you you know, but it got through in the end though, didn't it? i know, but but after being, you know, but but after being, you know, wasting so much time and being sort of stripped of all its teeth and it was just, it was who are these people? why are they allowed to do that? oh, right. it's pretty outrageous, but somewhat refreshing to hear benjamin butterworth actually speak about the elderly and not wish them to be and disagree with labour. >> that's what i'm more shocked about. >> yeah, they've got a safe seat. i'm never going to get a place in the lords because i'm

clearly not enough of a crony. >> no. >> no. >> right. still ahead folks, the green party party have quietly removed a rather big policy from their manifesto that no is talking about. what could it be? find

gb news. >> boxt solar. >> boxt solar. >> saturday five. i'm being very unprofessional. i've just left your emails over here, and it's this one i want. susan says there is something wrong . i am there is something wrong. i am an oap, and i love benjamin. are my word. my word? that doesn't happen. >> susan. >> susan. >> robbie says i like this is 80 the age limit or the iq? the iq, the age limit or the iq? the iq, the iq would get rid of the labour peers in the house of lords. benjamin shaking his head , clive says there should be no age limits on anything . it age limits on anything. it should be on your capability. so much discrimination in the uk and not enough in the usa. dare

i say? and john says the house of lords should not be a retirement home for ex—mps. it really is the most glorified retirement home in the country. isn't it, you get £300 a day for turning up and wayne says, get rid of them all and have a second house that the public vote for. and someone else wrote in and said, the saturday five more like loose women. and then you've got ella and doctor renee alongside loose women. i wish we were paid as much as loose women. thank you very much for your emails. continue bringing them in. ella whelan is up next for first time and you be. >> yes, and i've picked an issue that's only relevant to two people on the panel. but anyway, here we go. so nobody seems to have picked up on this but the greens in their manifesto and the literature policy literature had a really quite astonishing argument. they and i'm going to read this to you. they said that

we will work to reduce the number of interventions in childbirth and change the culture of the nhs so that birth is seen as a normal and non—medical event. now, that might just sound like what's the problem with that? lots of people have birth and lots of women have birth in different ways, but this is coming after months and years of news of the maternity scandal in nhs trusts up and down the country, where women and babies have been dying in horrendous numbers for reasons that should not have happened due to medical negligence, and whether it was the donna ockenden report or a recent report from the telford trust that said that normal birth was pursued at any cost by staff working in that nhs trust, this green policy announcement arguing for less intervention, less help for women and actually arguing that it was because things like caesareans were expensive is disgusting and just shows how little they understand about the actual serious issues facing women who are going

through having kids. as i know at the moment, being pregnant again are facing, and it was just quietly taken out. nobody noficed just quietly taken out. nobody noticed anything. and i just wonder what people think about the fact that we talk about the nhs so much and austerity and money into the nhs. this seems to be blaming nhs lack of funding or lack of resources on women , and suggesting that we women, and suggesting that we shouldn't have help during childbirth because what? it's too expensive. renee oh look, i'm going to agree with you 100. >> and as a doctor, obviously i see women that have had the most horrific birth experiences at the hands of their local midwives and hospitals . i was midwives and hospitals. i was left alone in a room to give birth alone . my baby was born birth alone. my baby was born with no one in the room because they just didn't take me serious enough. when i told them i was about to give birth. we have to listen to women and things have changed then and hopefully things are getting better. but this, this obsession that women are just acting up, this, this obsession that women are just acting up , that, you are just acting up, that, you know, they need these interventions because they're too posh to push or they, you know, they're just not brave enough. it'sjust

know, they're just not brave enough. it's just this wouldn't happenif enough. it's just this wouldn't happen if real men actually gave birth. it wouldn't. it's as simple as that . it's because simple as that. it's because it's women and the greens. what has happened to the greens? why don't they just care about the climate , well, i mean, that's an climate, well, i mean, that's an interesting i know i'm asking three young men to try and put yourself in the shoes of a woman giving birth. but actually, it's about more than that, which is that you have this sort of competition between resources, which everybody knows in the nhs are, you know, being fought oven are, you know, being fought over, let's put it that way. and the idea that patients should pay the idea that patients should pay for it. so, i mean, darren, even on a sort of global scale on the nhs, isn't this a bit shocking? it's a bit victim blaming. >> it is shocking. it is totally shocking. and the fact that it's got so little coverage as well, and you've got middle class people sort of applauding like demented seals saying, i'm going to vote for this green party without actually looking at the really horrible consequences that would be borne out for women, for example. there are other consequences. you know, there's a real entryism by some of the most extreme people, i would argue, in this country,

into the green party shouting all sorts of islamist chants and all sorts of islamist chants and all the rest of it, and i think actually we need to talk about why they're doing this and that to me is because the nhs model automatically requires rationing because there are finite, finite resources within that model itself. i don't think any woman should have to go without and be put through immense pain, unimaginable pain and suffering. and actually the baby as well , and actually the baby as well, in order to appease what? i don't really understand what they're trying to ipsis this is they're trying to ipsis this is the crux what emma just said about patients being up against rationing. >> this is why we need , as >> this is why we need, as a country in the nhs, to have a conversation where we say, look, guys, this is how much money we've got. it's a lot. it's £180 billion. these are the services that we offer because there's so much tut around the edges that we don't need. there isn't medical and we need to say to people, what would you like us

to do? would you like babies to be safe? would you like mothers to have the choice that they should have and keep their babies safe and forget doing varicose veins and whatever else? >> but i think in a in a roundabout and wrong way , that roundabout and wrong way, that i think is probably what the green party were trying to have a conversation about, but they just picked the wrong service to try and say, we're not going to do this anymore. i don't agree with the policy, but i do agree with the policy, but i do agree with the policy, but i do agree with the question that you just raised, which is, do we need to have a conversation about what the nhs does and what the nhs doesn't do? the nhs absolutely should be providing absolutely all the help that mothers need dunng all the help that mothers need during childbirth. but there does need to be a question about what don't we provide? and every time someone says what don't we provide? there are going to be these kinds of discussions that go on. >> i mean, the green party has said that they've removed this from their website, which is where it was found. obviously, the manifestos will mainly come out this week . they say that out this week. they say that they update all the time and that they weren't sure it was there. i'm not quite sure how you accidentally come up with that policy.

>> well, yeah. >> well, yeah. >> sorry. no no, no, i just i think the thing that we have to also understand is that and maybe it's because i'm thinking about this all the time, is that this isn't just a resources issue. it's also an ideological issue. it's also an ideological issue.i issue. it's also an ideological issue. i mean, i think the green party want women to go in a field and squat. basically, it's their kind of there's been an infection of sort of hippie mentality around childbirth. it's not just down to the green party but is in midwifery in general. and we it's kind of like an old fashioned sexism that we think that childbirth should just be this thing that women have to do and labour oven women have to do and labour over. and it's difficult and that's life. when we have invented things like caesareans, epidurals. >> yeah, i don't think people realise that even in the western world today, childbirth and pregnancy are the most dangerous thing a woman ever does. >> exactly . and can i just say >> exactly. and can i just say very briefly, quickly, that the idea that a gp, a professional doctor giving birth wasn't listened to, you know, if you weren't listened to in that experience , that incredibly experience, that incredibly sensitive moment, then what chance does a regular woman trying to express someone correct you? >> at that point? i wasn't a

doctor. sorry. right. >> okay, folks, still ahead. >> okay, folks, still ahead. >> can men have ovaries? well, there's a question for benjamin butterworth. you're with the saturday five live

>> welcome back to the saturday five. it's time now for our next debate. doctor renee. take it away. oh! it rhymed. i'm a poet, and i didn't know it. >> thank you. so, claiming that men can have ovaries is not only degrading to women, it's also dangerous . as this week, the dangerous. as this week, the charity ovarian cancer action decided to kick off pride week. lord knows why there are ovarian cancer charity by asking the question can men get ovarian cancer? they followed it up because it needed some explanation, obviously, to say that anyone with ovaries regard less of their gender identity can be at risk of ovarian cancer

. i won't bore you with the rest about genes, so you get the idea . yeah, we need to now think about men and whether or not they get ovarian cancer. i'm sick and tired of this gaslighting of women by making them buy into a delusion and deny that there's anything unique about them. women are unique. we're unique because we have ovaries, and from those ovanes have ovaries, and from those ovaries can spring potential men and women of the future . and and women of the future. and it's only the fact that they are women that they have ovaries. now, if we boil this quote down, yes , of course there are some yes, of course there are some women who decide to present to the world as if they are men. in all intents and purposes, everyone must believe they're men, but biologically they are women and they have ovaries. and that's the important fact here. so let's just think about why it's dangerous . up to 40% of it's dangerous. up to 40% of women don't know they have a cervix. so if you reduce them to a woman with a cervix and then you call them forward in that way for their cervical screening for a very treatable cancer of

the cervix, 40% of them won't come. and are potentially at risk of dying because of this delusion . iron and making men delusion. iron and making men feel happy. i'm sure that the same applies to ovaries, because if women don't know where their cervix is, they probably don't know what their ovary is. so the only way to keep women safe is to actually and stop them dying at the altar of hurting feelings. because let's face it, that's what we're talking about, is to call them women. how how do 40% of women not know they have a cervix? you know, you'd be surprised at people's medical knowledge. i'll be. i mean, i'm in gp every day and people often don't know things that we would think of as really straightforward things people don't know sometimes what renal means. we call it a renal function . is that liver, spleen, function. is that liver, spleen, it's kidney, kidney. you see. >> finish illustration a. never mind. >> ella, where are you at on this?

>> i think i mean , in terms of >> i think i mean, in terms of the realm of medicine and biology , the key has to be the biology, the key has to be the number one focus has to be clarity. it just there can be endless dangerous consequences from mixing up the political realm of debates about gender identity. whatever side you fall on that with the fact that when you step into a gp's office or into a hospital, you're not a citizen in the political world anymore, you're a patient and you need to be treated as a patient. and the most important thing is your sex, whether you're a man or a woman. that's why we have different blood tests. it's why we have different responses to medicine. i mean, if we were pretending like we were all the same and all that mattered was the name that we put down on the form, then people would be dying because you wouldn't be treating people properly. and i think, i mean, you use the word gaslighting renee. i think the most infuriating aspect of this is that we're told that if we want to speak in terms of truth, that men are men and women are women in a biological sense, when it matters is that there's something wrong with that, something wrong with that, something mean about that you

term, not feelings, or that it's that that it's cruel, and it's the idea that doctors and nurses and staff and hospitals are being cruel by telling the truth is ridiculous . is ridiculous. >> it's absolutely ridiculous. >> it's absolutely ridiculous. >> benjamin butterworth but i think the failure to recognise some of the services that a transgender person would need, someone who appears to be something that's not how they were physically built, also has serious consequences. >> so ian duncan, who's a conservative member of the house of lords, his brother, who was born his sister died of ovarian cancer. born his sister died of ovarian cancer . and it was because they cancer. and it was because they were not invited to have checks that that was able to get out of hand for that to be possible, because nobody was asking this person that looked like and was referred to as a man. nobody had had acknowledged the fact that they were physically a woman, that no , i think you've just that no, i think you've just perfectly, perfectly made the case. but they're not a woman. they're they're a man. >> no, they are a woman biologically. and that's all that matters in medicine. and when biological women are allowed to have their medical

notes changed so that the gp who sees them has no indication whatsoever that they are dealing with a with a woman who looks like a man and says that they're a man. why would that gp ask them about their ovaries? why would they ask them if they had any symptoms of ovarian cancer? who is the responsibility with? once somebody has taken the decision that they no longer want to be seen as a woman, it's their responsibility. they know they're a woman deep down. >> but that's the point of this campaign that you started your monologue with, which is that they're saying anybody with ovanes they're saying anybody with ovaries now, in this case, that's a person that, you know , that's a person that, you know, recognises themselves as a man, but they also have ovaries. it's a woman and they know they're a woman. woman. >> woman. >> they know they don't. >> they know they don't. >> but also no one ever. what why why are there never campaigns saying anyone with testes? yeah or a prostate anyone. yeah. it always i think we have to acknowledge the political bias here, which is that it's always this always centres around women and women's services having to give room to anybody. that's such a great word. anybody. i mean, all right

, we're gonna have to unfortunately leave that one there. >> but, i think that could have went on. but thank you very much for that. right, folks? there's lots more coming up on the show tonight, including compulsory voting, penny morton's hair. and of course, we'll be discussing miss alabama 2024. see you after the break. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boiler , sponsors of weather boxt boiler, sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello! here's your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. the weather stays rather mixed across the uk over the next few days. a mixture of sunshine and showers and staying quite chilly for the time of year two. the cool conditions are all down to a northerly airstream low pressure anchored towards the north—east of the uk, high pressure out towards the west and that's generating that northerly flow across all parts. so looking at things in more detail for this evening and through the overnight period, we'll see showers towards the north and north—west of the uk. quite blustery winds, so many of those showers rattling through quite

quickly, the rain giving way to more persistent outbreaks as we head into the early hours of sunday, particularly across northern ireland and the south—west of scotland. whereas across england and wales the cloud tends to melt away, so it will turn quite chilly here by sunday morning. in fact, in rural spots we could see temperatures into low single figures, giving a touch of grass frost in 1 or 2 places. pretty unusual for this time of the yeah unusual for this time of the year. looking at things in more detail for early on sunday and towards the north—east of scotland, we'll see a mixture of sunshine and showers quite a brisk north westerly winds. then we run into an area of more persistent rain across northern ireland, southwest scotland, parts of north—west england, whereas elsewhere across england and wales it's set fair. quite a chilly start, but there'll be plenty of sunshine around and we hold on to some sunshine here, certainly through the morning on sunday, before cloud starts to increase from the north, whereas across northern ireland we hold on to outbreaks of rain on and off through the day, and that rain slipping its way south eastwards across southwest scotland into northern england and eventually parts of northern wales too. further north, it's a case of sunshine and showers towards the far north—east of the uk and staying chilly here with quite a brisk northerly breeze. temperatures generally

no better than 12 to 14 celsius up to 20, though in london that's 68 in fahrenheit. as for monday, we'll see an unsettled picture across england and wales, certainly through the morning. outbreaks of rain gradually clearing away to the south and east, giving way to a mixture of sunshine and showers across all parts of the remainder of the day. and with that northerly breeze still in place, it's staying quite chilly for the time of year two. we hold on to a showery picture into the middle part of the week, and temperatures stay quite disappointing for the early part of june as well. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers as sponsors of weather on

gb news. way. >> it's saturday night and this is the saturday five. i'm darren grimes, along with albie amankona ella whelan, doctor renee hoenderkamp and benjamin butterworth. plenty more to come

tonight, including the saturday scrap. l.a. tonight, including the saturday scrap. la. and albi are going head to head on whether voting should be mandatory. head to head on whether voting should be mandatory . what do you should be mandatory. what do you think that's going to get? liveli. it's 7 pm. and this is the saturday five. also to come on this jam packed show. during last night's debate, we discovered penny morton's hair has its own postcode and benjamin will be whingeing on about something. i can't remember what. then we'll be answering your questions in ask the five. send them through to gb news. com name.your kwasi. first of all, though, it's your saturday night . saturday night. news. >> darren. thank you. the top stories this evening. an israeli special forces officer has been killed during an operation in

gaza in which four hostages were rescued. noah ajmani almog, marjan andrey kozlov and shlomi ziv were recovered by the idf and this is the moment that the hostages disembarked a helicopter after that rescue, and they were welcomed by cheering crowds. the four of them were kidnapped by the hamas terror group on the 7th of october. israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu visited the hostages and their families in hospital. he says he remains committed to bringing all of the hostages home. penny mordaunt clashed with angela rayner over issues including nhs waiting lists and the economy in a televised debate last night. both were reprimanded for speaking over one another, whilst miss rayner received applause after claiming former prime minister liz truss had crashed the economy . crashed the economy. >> keir starmer confirmed this earlier this week. they are going to put up your taxes by £2,000, a lie by £2,000 per

working anymore. >> you're using you're using a figure that's been criticised by the uk statistics watchdog costings and labour's own stand by your record and you'll see record levels of taxes on working people . working people. >> 26 separate tax hikes in the last parliament. >> meanwhile, sir keir starmer now says labour's manifesto is complete and insists there'll be no tax surprises. >> well, we finalised our manifesto yesterday , which was a manifesto yesterday, which was a great moment because at the end of the meeting it was acclaimed by everybody in the meeting and, you know, good manifestos are those that tell a story about the country and those that succeed. everything in our manifesto won't be any surprises on tax. all of our plans are fully costed , fully funded and fully costed, fully funded and none of them involving tax rises over and above those that we've already set out. >> the prime minister has been

criticised for, quote, dodging media questions on today's campaign trail as the fallout continues over his early return from d—day events in normandy . from d—day events in normandy. an opportunity for reporters to quiz the prime minister did not take place as was originally planned. today, rishi sunak did receive a warm welcome, though, as he visited the gardens at auckland castle, where he spent time meeting with volunteers. he also spoke to people at a village fete in a north yorkshire village in his richmond constituency . and richmond constituency. and michael mosley's wife says his family will not lose hope as the search for the missing tv doctor continues. an emergency helicopter arrived on the greek island of symi today as efforts focused on the mountainous terrain , where he is believed to terrain, where he is believed to have been walking amid very high temperatures . the 67 year old temperatures. the 67 year old was last seen in cctv footage in the village of perry on wednesday . for the latest wednesday. for the latest stories , sign up to gb news stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning that qr code on your screen. or you can go to

gb news. common alerts. now it's back to the saturday five. >> it's saturday night, folks, and you're with the saturday five. i'm darren grimes, and i can promise that you're for in another very lively hour. i want to read out some of these emails before we go to our big guest. vicky says men do not have ovanes vicky says men do not have ovaries with no uterus and a womb. it's not likely. i mean, vicky speaks common sense, doesn't she? and mark said, actually , i want to read this actually, i want to read this one out from susan. susan says, can men have ovarian cancer? that has to stop. the most ludicrous statement i've ever heard. men do not have ovaries. stick them on a list to have a full hysterectomy, and i'll tell you what they'll change their minds pretty quickly. i think susan may well have a point. right, folks? we'll move on to our big interview tonight. now, rishi sunak was heckled by a gp. we're talking a lot about

doctors today, aren't we? for his handling of the nhs. but one man took it upon himself to go to x, formerly twitter, to condemn the heckler. christopher snowdon wrote she's rattled gps says no, that pretty much anyone could do their job and their little racket is coming to an end . well, i'm pleased to say end. well, i'm pleased to say that we're joined by christopher snowdon . chris, a lot of viewers snowdon. chris, a lot of viewers at home may well be in agreement with you, but some of them may well be saying, you sly little fox. gps have had a hard time recently . recently. >> well, were they i don't know. >> well, were they i don't know. >> i mean, yeah, i've had a bit of pushback on this tweet. i must admit, i have to say that, you know, it wasn't 100% sincere. i do enjoy winding up doctors and gps in particular, because they're so precious and self entitled, you know? but there is a serious point there, which is this gp was complaining about physicians associate s who are people that you can see in

addition to seeing a gp or instead of seeing a gp. and look, we've got a shortage of gps in this country and it's not going to change any time soon. and although gps complain about being overworked and over stretched every time anyone tries to do anything about it by giving more power to pharmacists to prescribe, for example, by having nurse practitioners, by having nurse practitioners, by having physicians associates, they kick off. and it seems to me that they're just hoarding their power rather than genuinely caring about patient safety. all right. >> so renee, chris is saying there that basically she, well, i mean, he's he's not speaking to politely about you, maybe. do you feel let down like chris's rhetoric there. do you feel that actually gps really do have a hard time of it. >> hi, chris, look, i have been super critical of gps , super critical of gps, especially across covid not seeing people, seeing people by telephone. and i've fought all of the time that the option of seeing a gp face to face should always be with the patient, so

you can see them by telephone if that's what they want. but if they want to be seen face to face, gp should step up and do that and i have done that. so, you know, i've actually walked the talk, as it were, in terms of power. believe me, gps feel they have very little power in they have very little power in the scope of their work. we can't actually get anybody referred anymore because the hospital system is absolutely broken. we see as many patients as we can. we are absolutely snowed under by useless , wasted snowed under by useless, wasted bureaucracy and paper all day long and hospitals knocking things back to us that didn't need to come back, that we then have to do over and over again. but the joy for us is still seeing our patients. we are also inundated with patients who want to see us for their verrucas and colds. they could see the pharmacist for that. but guess what, chris? they don't want to see the pharmacist. they want to see the pharmacist. they want to see a doctor because they think that a doctor will give them more than a pharmacist can, even though that's not true. i mean, for me, i'd like anyone like

your good self who wants to criticise what i do all day and cling on to my power to come and spend a day with me. and you might then feel differently. >> chris. >> chris. >> well, firstly, it's nice to see a gp at the weekend. it's a very unique experience. i think most people in this country, you know, gp's used to the idea that there's such a thing as a family doctor, it's just died away in this country . they don't work this country. they don't work weekends, they don't do house calls or certainly very rarely. you know, you can't get in touch with them after 6:00. they have this appalling system by which you can only book a appointment if you ring them at 8:00 in the morning, at which point everybody else is doing them 8:00 in the morning and you've got an engagement. now, that's not the government's fault. there's a lot of things that are the government's fault in this health care system. but remember, gp's are part still of the private system. they didn't want to be nationalised. they can decide. you know, we talk about power. they've got a lot of power over us and it seems to me that they really exert it and, you know, this 8:00 in the morning thing is like worse than living in the soviet union.

you're queuing up for this kind of health care. i've got nothing against gps. they do a great job. don't get me wrong. they do a very important job. but for things like verrucas, they shouldn't. they shouldn't be going to gps. i don't care whether people want to see a gp. they should be going to a pharmacist or a physician's associate. i don't really understand why gps are so against anything that's going to take, you know, alleviate the burden from them. >> yeah, but you know what, chris? we're not. but people don't want to go and see a pharmacist. that's what i'm saying to you. i did an emergency surgery last week . i emergency surgery last week. i did an emergency surgery last week. my receptionists are not doctors. if people say it's an emergency, they get put on my list. three young people under the age of 25 started the emergency consultation with. i've got a terrible cold. so that's what we're being, you know , blocked up with. they know, blocked up with. they don't want to see a pharmacist. isend don't want to see a pharmacist. i send them back to the pharmacist, trust me. but that appointment has been used. but you're also wrong on something else. you've just said there are lots of gps who only have this 830 in the morning system. my

own gp that i'm registered at has it. it's awful. i absolutely object and i agree with you. my practice, we do have that for an emergency on the day appointment. you'll be guaranteed to be seen that day , guaranteed to be seen that day, but if you want to make an appointment with me next week, you can do that at any time of day. just phone reception. it will be made so you're not absolutely right. like anything, there are good gp's and there are bad gp's, but they're being told by you, by the own brush there with one brush and you're also telling us that our job is so easy that it will be over soon. >> well, it's a diagnostic job so look, as i say, i was kind of exaggerating for comic effect in that tweet, but the reality is it is a diagnostic job. it is easy to see a! taking over a significant proportion of a gp's job, and that would be a good thing. in the same way, i think it's a good thing if nurse practitioners and physician's associates take over things like spotting verrucas , prescribing spotting verrucas, prescribing paracetamol, smear tests, even

why, why, why gps are having to do smear tests. this can easily be done by somebody else. >> so sorry you say this a young woman has recently died because she saw two physician associates in the same practice who both said she had anxiety. she actually had a dvt and she died of a pe. so physicians associates who get paid , by the associates who get paid, by the way, about £58,000 a year are not doctors. they have not been to medical school. and every company that has tried an ai company that has tried an a! system like babylon has slowly gone out of business. you know why? because you need someone who asks the right questions and listens well. >> look , gp's love this shroud >> look, gp's love this shroud waving of looking at instances where physicians associates have made a misdiagnosis. i put out a whole load of tweets and everybody wants to have a look at them. and gps is making mistakes. people make mistakes, but the reality is that with nurse practitioners, to take an example where we really have solid evidence, there's very good peer reviewed evidence not only that they're as good as

gps, but actually better that the patients spend more time with them. they they feel they have a better treatment and they're often better outcomes. so, you know, i don't think gps should be using these unusual instances and trying to claim that these people who are pretty well qualified, albeit not gps themselves, but have more than qualified for dealing with so much of what gps deal with. and this is what i don't get about this is what i don't get about this debate. gps are often telling me we are working on things that are way below our pay things that are way below our pay grade, that somebody else could easily do that we have malingerers and hypochondriacs coming through the door. we get triaged. i'm glad that you know you don't have this 8 am. system, but a lot of people watching this will be very familiar with this system. and you have the receptionist who basically triages people in other words, just asks them lots of personal questions that really none of their business. but the point of triaging is you can then send in the right direction. so you can get the people with the verrucas, and you just need a repeat prescription, send them to somebody else, and people like you can deal with. the more

serious cases. >> all right. ella whelan well, i don't want to now start war against pharmacists , but any against pharmacists, but any time i've gone into a pharmacy and said the, you know, i think this is more than just your average cold, they shake a bottle of beecham's at you and tell you to get out. >> so i understand why people want to see a doctor, and particularly as you get up the age range, you know, there's this whole issue of older people playing down and making out, like all they've got is a cold, and actually what they've got is the onset of lung cancer or something. so you know, rather than just saying people should go elsewhere and we should, parcel out these sort of the, the mean resources we have. chris, what about, you know , the chris, what about, you know, the argument for hiring more doctors, getting more resources and then making it a more attractive job, and also like to tackle the holier than thou gp kind of thing, which is your your politically a very good gp renee particularly around the lockdown thing, but there is this sense that they're like across the nhs that they're saint like and they're very, a lot of them are very precious.

but what about just getting more of them in there? why isn't that the solution? rather than saying people should go elsewhere ? people should go elsewhere? >> well, it takes a very long time to do that from start up. yeah. ideally there'd be lots more gps, but that's not going to change overnight. this is a, you know, physician associates thing is a fairly short term solution. but also you know, they do cost half as much . gps they do cost half as much. gps run well into six figure salaries and a lot of the time thatis salaries and a lot of the time that is just for sitting around talking to people. and i think somebody else should be doing it. >> but chris, a lot of people would be saying screaming at their tellies maybe saying, well, all these doctors are going off to australia and all these other things. so it's right that we pay them these salaries to keep them in the nhs. >> yeah. look i mean, most doctors get into it for the money and we need to find a way of channelling their rapacious greed in a way that benefits society. one example i would give one very easy policy solution if wes streeting is watching, listen up right at the moment , gps watching, listen up right at the moment, gps get paid for the number of people on the books. they should get paid per appointment. in my opinion. i

don't see any argument against this. for one thing, it means that you've got gp practices where they're massively oversubscribed, people are waiting weeks and weeks to get an appointment. the gp, the people running the surgery, the gp's themselves. usually they can employ another gp, but why would you bother? if you're getting paid for the people on the books make it a per appointment. surely that's an easy solution. >> benjamin, do you agree with that sentiment? because there will be some people who are saying, hang on a minute. you know, i call up at 8 am. and it's like trying to get into fort knox to get an appointment. >> i mean, look, you know, i have a gp system whereby you fill in a, an online form that breaks down what your problem is. and i've always been able to get in on the day. so i think that's good. but do you know what? i don't want to disagree with renee when she's sort of within swinging distance of me. but i do actually think, for example, you know, i've had eye problems, as you might be able to figure out from the spectacles, and you can go to your! spectacles, and you can go to your i remember i had an issue like a year or two ago, and i went to the optician for my eye

test, and then they said, oh, you need to see an eye specialist and an optometrist. so then they have to write a letter to send me to sit down with my gp, who just looks at the letter and then goes, oh yes, they wrote that and then sends me on to the optometrist. i mean, that was a farcical waste of resources. why on earth did i need to see the gp to stamp a letter? >> i agree, is this a system problem? >> chris? is this the nhs? is it the nhs itself? like do other countries comparable to us have sort of. are they mired in all of this bureaucracy . of this bureaucracy. >> well, you know, every country obviously has the kind of the front line of the health care system, we've got an exceptionally state run nhs , exceptionally state run nhs, healthcare system, you know, the hospitals and all the rest of it. well, we got this weird anomaly where the gp practices are private, which normally would be very much in favour of. the thing is , i mean, they are the thing is, i mean, they are private companies and there's no desire whatsoever in gp's to be nationalised , but they're nationalised, but they're private companies with effectively one customer. right. me and you, we're not really the

customers. the customers is the nhs. so go back. for example, i would be harping on this 8 am. thing a little bit too much perhaps, but it's quite a good example actually, of how bureaucracies get around and, you know, diddle targets. tony blair years ago introduced a target for gp seeing patients on the same day and so the gps just said, well, in that case we'll introduce a system where people have to ring up at the beginning in the morning and we'll get them in the same day rather than having it the day after which people were quite happy in the past to ring up at 3 pm. can you get me in tomorrow? yeah great. no. now we're all on, on on the line at 8 am, so it's a private system, but we've won, in one, you know, one client and the client effectively makes and renee. >> a lot of people are saying that made a lot of people are very frustrated with the fact that they they say, i'm paying all this money. it's a lot of it's going into the nhs and i cannot see a doctor. >> so what i want to answer that, and i was just about to say this is that what people

don't often understand is that gps each day see 90% of the nhs contacts that go on, and they get about 9 to 10% of the overall budget. so we're seeing most of the patients for hardly any of the budget , most of the patients for hardly any of the budget, more than a million people a day in gp paid. >> is that what you're claiming? >> is that what you're claiming? >> gps is underpaid . >> gps is underpaid. >> gps is underpaid. >> underpaid? i you know, i'm quite happy with what i'm paid. i've never argued that i need to be paid more, but this is about budget allocation and how we use it. so we see most of the patients for very little of the budget. and yet people think that we're bad value. so that's not bad value. >> what what do gps need budget for? forgive me. you would expect budget to be spent on things like expensive surgeries or expensive drugs higher up the chain in the nhs, rather than a gp who was going to refer you on to someone else? >> well, firstly, we treat lots of people, abby. we don't refer. in fact, i refer probably just 10% of the patients i see are the treatments that you give particularly costly? well, it's not the treatments we're paying

for. you've got to pay for me. you've got to pay for the admin, the backup, the receptionist running it, the building . running it, the building. >> everything all right, chris, final word to you there. because i tell you what, some of these receptionists in these gp surgeries terrify me. put the fear of god into us. i mean, you know, these british people that are walking up to the reception desk and saying, oh, you know, maybe i've just got a little cough because, you know, stiff upper lip and all that. maybe they're really ill, but i don't think receptionists should be triaging people. >> they're not medically trained. they could miss things. i don't think they should be triaging. >> so, chris, final word agree. >> at the end of the day, gp's basically are middle men and middle women, and a lot of the time they're just dishing out penicillin or aspirin to people who shouldn't even be in the condescending in the first place, or come and spend a day with me. chris, you go in with a bad back, they go, i'll send you to a specialist. go in with a bad knee, i'll send you some money. >> so true. you obviously don't know what goes on the work that they're doing. >> you clearly have no view. you

clearly have no idea what goes on in a gp surgery. and it isn't that i on in a gp surgery. and it isn't that! can on in a gp surgery. and it isn't that i can tell you. >> all right. okay. right. we'll leave it there. christopher snowden, thank you very much for your time there. now, folks, that was a spicy one. still to come tonight. our ed davey. do you know who that is? our ed davey stunts. he's leader of the liberal democrats. just cringe worthy. or do they serve a purpose? and how is penny morton's hair breaking the internet? but next, it's about to get lively as albie amankona and elianne ella whelan go head to head on whether voting should be made mandatory like it is in australia. yep, it's almost time for the saturday scrap. you're with the saturday five live on gb

>> on mark dolan tonight, i'll be dealing with the shocking hypocrisy and double standards of comedian stephen fry in the big story. what has happened to missing bbc star michael mosley? i'll be asking one of the

country's top detectives and my mark menzies guest is blue peter and most haunted presenter yvette fielding . plus the papers yvette fielding. plus the papers and my top pundits. we're live at nine. >> a very warm welcome back to the saturday five. as always. cheers very much for your messages about tonight's topics. grumpy grandad has a messaged in and no, it's not me. same old problem. too many people to deal with. you had none of these issues back in the 60s. population crisis. marie says the hospitals are overwhelmed because doctors don't see you . i because doctors don't see you. i agree with chris. the most doctors tell you to ring at 8 am. and cares though says it's not gps that have the power, it's their receptionists and as i said, they terrify me. and pauune i said, they terrify me. and pauline says in capital letters, mind, pauline. serious. we have to ring 8:30 am. to get a same day appointment. but when you

ring dead on 830 and was 28th in the queue, by the time they answer you , it's too late. what answer you, it's too late. what are you going to do then? >> can i ask a question? >> can i ask a question? >> why is it that gp's receptionists are so often so intimidating ? intimidating? >> i don't know, i mean mine aren't, they're lovely, but then they don't triage people. they wouldn't ask you what was wrong with you. they'd just. well, you say that, renee. >> but i bet if i turn up at your surgery, they'll say, what are you here for, a verruca? >> get out of my shop. i wish they would. >> i wouldn't turn up for a vote by the way, i don't actually have a verruca. but anyway, moving swiftly on. >> yeah, yeah, you can have a check later. >> now, though, it's time for tonight's main event. >> i thought that was . the. >> i thought that was. the. >> i thought that was. the. >> should it be mandatory to vote the election? of course. around the corner. many voters are disengaged, disenfranchised, and they won't take part . and they won't take part. disillusioned with the political debate, there are some countries

around the world, such as our cousins in australia , where it's cousins in australia, where it's illegal not to vote. so, you know, some people may go and scribble in their or write rude things in there, but they still have to go out and do it. so should we do the same here in britain? should it be mandatory? i'll be. you're for the motion. so you go first. yes. >> voting should be mandatory. it's worked in australia. i don't see why it couldn't work here. we have a real problem in british politics, which is that so many people are disengaged from the political system . and from the political system. and then those same people complain about politicians not doing the job correctly, not working in a way that benefits them. but then we have such a high proportion of the population which doesn't vote, whereas if we had a system like in australia, where it was mandates to vote, everyone had to take part in the democratic process. everyone felt that they had skin in the game. perhaps we would have a political system

which better represents the will of the british people. >> ella whelan no , i don't think >> ella whelan no, i don't think it should be mandatory to vote. i think forcing people to the ballot box completely strips the power and will and importance of voting away from that political act. if you are being marched to go and give your vote with your hands tied behind your back and being forced to put your ex or name, or even to spoil your ballot, it means your it means that your vote is worthless. i think that forcing people to vote wouldn't necessarily well, it wouldn't make the political system better or more representative , because it representative, because it completely ignores the fact that the reason why most people don't vote isn't because they're lazy or they can't be bothered, it's because there is no one exciting in parliamentary politics at the moment. i mean, i've for almost all general elections that i've been alive for and able to vote for, i haven't voted. when i was youngenl for, i haven't voted. when i was younger, i used to spoil, but i mean, even now, i think we don't count spoilt ballots in the same

way that, for example, france does. we don't give them political weight. and i think the onus really is it's almost like a victim blaming voters , like a victim blaming voters, the owners on why the faults of politics, why people are disengaged shouldn't be just because we're not encouraging people to vote. it should be because politicians aren't getting the right ideas out there aren't exciting people aren't putting forward anything different. so, you know, making votes mandatory might make us feel better about the political system. it might make the numbers look a little bit better, but it will actually be corrosive to the whole political process of being involved. well you see, i think voting is so important. >> it should be mandatory, actually. and i think it's actually. and i think it's actually really quite despicable. if i may say, ella, that you don't vote in general elections and then you, you come on political shows like this and have a go at the government and that's fine. but i just think that's fine. but i just think that if you are going to complain about the way the country is run, but you don't vote in general elections ,

vote in general elections, what's the point? >> well, there's more to life than parliamentary politics. i mean, either i'm despicable or it's fine. you've got to pick one. i'm fine with being despicable. i think that it's , despicable. i think that it's, you know, the if you really want to understand why people get involved in, in going to the ballot box and, and giving their vote, it should be about being a believing in someone, believing in a party, believing in an ideology. and at the moment, we've reduced it down to just simply believing in the voting system itself. it's completely hollowed out. i mean, if you look at the conversations about voting at the moment, you know, the row, whether you should have sixteens vote or actually post brexit, there was a sort of suggestion that older people should be there should be an age cap on voting. disgusting. we it is pretty vile. but we've also sort of fetishised the whole process of voting . voting is in process of voting. voting is in every four years or whatever it is. it's important. every four years or whatever it is. it's important . obviously, is. it's important. obviously, you know, i'm not suggesting that who runs the country and is in the house of commons is irrelevant, but it's not everything that's to do with politics. and actually, most of

the time, the more exciting change driven stuff happens outside of the realm of parliament. >> final brief word i'll be, i think, one of the most important democratic votes in this country was the brexit referendum. >> and we saw people come out to vote who don't often vote. and it actually delivered what people thought was going to be real change. but then you go back to this, they didn't deliver it, so why would you? but then you had but then you had this system of general elections and voting share went back down again. and then we get the politicians that we for. vote and then the same people that complain about brexit not being developed, i.e. you just admit that you don't vote. >> no, we you vote for brexit. >> no, we you vote for brexit. >> people in record numbers voted for brexit and they tried to stop it for years and then it was eventually watered down to nothing. people voted in quite significantly large numbers in 2019 election for the conservatives, changed their rosette from labour to conservative and they screwed that up as well. so really, why on earth would people in this upcoming election be bothered? >> okay, thank you very much. to the two of you. we'll let the viewers decide who clinched that

one. but albeit i wonder, can i ask you engage with that argument about lsa and that actually it's the onus is on political people like you to make politics seem more interesting. i think the onus is on all of us. >> we are all participants in democracy , and i sort of don't democracy, and i sort of don't like this argument that it's all it's all on the politicians or the government to do something for me, to make me interested in politics. no, you as a citizen, we are all citizens in a liberal democratic nation. and we are all responsible for the democracy in our country . and democracy in our country. and that's why the onus should be on all of us to vote a legal onus in the same way as it is in australia. >> but then you can't argue that someone like ella is not politically engaged, despite the fact she's not being voted right. >> and it is an act in and of itself. it's a political act to not vote, is it not? >> well, i mean, i think again, i just don't think we should fetishise it. it's this thing that we that has to happen every four years under a creaking system that currently doesn't work. we've had rouseabout the house of lords on this program. we've talked about the fact that

there's a lack, you know, how poor the leaders debate is. there's a sort of lack of representation. and i think it's wrong to see the solution as just trying to force people to engagein just trying to force people to engage in this rubbish process when actually you could say, well, what is it that's really at fault? if there were great politicians and great ideas and not just the individuals, but i mean the party politics, big ideas, big ideologies coming from labour, conservatives, whoever , then people would. whoever, then people would. there are times previously when people really did march to the ballot box in huge numbers, when things mattered. at the moment it feels like nothing works in this country and no one cares. >> i just think there's a bit of a complacency about democracy. >> people just sort of think it's going to be this thing that's always there. and do they think, oh, it's okay. i just, i just won't vote. cheapening it, voting it, voting is important. >> all right. >> all right. >> let's see what doctor renee think. yeah >> so i find there are bits that both of you have said here that i agree with. i actually agree with albie that if you don't vote, you shouldn't moan. it's as simple as that, because you've not engaged with how you can actually change the system. however, i also don't think marching people to the ballot

box and forcing them is a credible idea either, because i think it's totally meaningless. and i think you kind of answered your own thing here, that when brexit something really, really important to everybody was on the table. people came out in massive numbers. i would say that our two party system does not inspire anyone to get off the sofa, and we need to change the sofa, and we need to change the system. >> benjamin, what do you say? >> benjamin, what do you say? >> and it's kind of an obvious argument, but to the fact that clearly women died and protested for a long time for the right to vote. and at the time they got it, i doubt any of the political parties really had much constructive to say on women in their place in society, but they went out and used that right. i think that the history of arguing for the vote and not just women , why does everybody just women, why does everybody say particular women when actually load masses of working class men, sacrifice themselves and committed years of political campaigning to this argument? the history is important, but it shouldn't be used to emotionally and blackmail us in the present. and i think that it's about what does the vote actually mean? if i'm being forced to go to a ballot box, whether it's

mandatory or whether just through people saying i shouldn't have a voice, if i don't vote, if i'm being blackmailed and i go there and i pick the best of a bad bunch, and i don't really mean it, and i don't have any excitement about it, any desire for it. why is that to be celebrated? just because i'm enacting this sort of performative act of vote that thought benjamin would you make it mandatory? >> no you wouldn't. >> no you wouldn't. >> i think the party politics that would benefit most from it would be groups like reform. i suspect if it were mandatory, i think you'd get an anti—politics movement among those people. so i don't think it would benefit mainstream or traditional. >> i've changed my mind . >> i've changed my mind. >> i've changed my mind. >> i'm joking, i'm joking, but i'm joking. >> i also don't think that , you >> i also don't think that, you know, i mean, voting numbers are compared to other countries, are reasonably, you know, average or decent compared. so we don't have compared to similar countries, a serious issue. the us is much lower, for example. but i do think that a lot of those people that don't vote do so not clearly, but lots of them are because they don't. they don't care. it's not an interest. they haven't invested interest. they haven't invested in some of the basics of how

politics, you know, parliamentary democracy works . parliamentary democracy works. so i don't think most of them are making a grand statement. >> so then i'll be just very briefly sorry because we're running out of time. but i mean, come back to that point then, surely, as ella has said, you have to make politics want people to go to the ballot box, surely? >> of course we have to. of course, politics has got to be interesting. >> but people have also got to vote. and i don't particularly care if there's a large proportion of the population who have more important things to do than watch politics shows like i do all of the time and aren't as interested in politics as me. that doesn't mean i don't want them to go out and vote. in fact, i think that more apathetic voter more represents the general public than someone that's really invested and engagedin that's really invested and engaged in politics like me. and that's why i think it's so important that everyone votes so important. in fact , that it important. in fact, that it should be a legal requirement like it is in australia. >> all right, folks, let me know what you think about that topic. gbnews.com/yoursay. right. coming up, we'll be discussing

penny morden's. hey, speaking of vital voting issues and why ed davey is doing our heads in. and of course, the winner of miss alabama 2024, you're the saturday five live on

gb news. welcome back to the saturday five. as always. thank you very much for your messages about tonight's topics. gary has written in. gary says those who don't vote are not disengaged at all. politicians just don't do what they're asked by the people . and diane says, so i'll be. what would the penalty for non—voters be? plus, how would you actually implement that penalty? would you send them to prison? >> i don't know that i'd send them to prison. i'd look to australia for advice on that policy. there's a policy in australia that works. let's follow them. all right. >> be ironic if you sent them to prison because then they lose their right to vote. >> i thought you were going to

say because then they would be sent to australia, and finally, dennis says everyone should be required to vote, even if they spoil their slip. >> however, postal voting should be severely restricted to only those who can prove their inability to get to a polling station on the day. a lot of people agree with that one right now . it's people agree with that one right now. it's time for this. people agree with that one right now. it's time for this . yeah, now. it's time for this. yeah, bunch of five. alby, what have you got for us? >> so we were all watching the leaders debate yesterday. >> well, you might not have been, but i certainly was watching it. and the first thing that jumped out at me was penny mordaunt's hair. how fabulous was penny mordaunt's hair? it was penny mordaunt's hair? it was this wonderful margaret thatcheresque. well, you know, thatis thatcheresque. well, you know, that is actually a meme of her hair. and it wasn't it wasn't quite it wasn't quite that big for radio listeners. that was just a picture of her hair there, which was kind of a bit over the top. but we're just watching a conversation here of penny mordaunt and angela rayner . and don't you just think

penny's hair looks much better than angela's? >> no. you know what? >> no. you know what? >> i've just sat there for five minutes telling ella whelan that actually we, you know , need to actually we, you know, need to force people to vote. and now you sat there saying, wasn't penny morton's hair gorgeous? >> oh, we need to lighten up the mood, don't we? and wasn't it wasn't it wonderful? renee. >> no it isn't. she looks like she's gone back to the thatcher years, which is obviously what she's trying to do. it's awful. i can't imagine a woman wanting hair like that. >> well, maybe i'm biased because obviously me and angela rayner are the only thing we share is hair colour. i think she looked much better and it looked like, well, you could feel penny mordaunt wanting to exit and leave the show and ditch rishi sunak, and it felt like her hair was doing it for her, lifted inches off her head with every contribution, all right, doctor renee, is this my bit now? >> it is . oh sorry. okay, so on >> it is. oh sorry. okay, so on my twitter feed this week, something came up that was in america. but it's so got me going that i thought i'd bring it here today. the new miss alabama has been crowned and there she is. and i'm sorry. she's now complaining that people online are fat shaming her. and i think this word fat

shaming is designed to not allow us to talk about something which is massively damaging, being morbidly obese, which this young woman is , can knock 25 years off woman is, can knock 25 years off your lifespan , and in that time your lifespan, and in that time cost a fortune in health care and stop you doing the things safely that women do. get pregnant, give birth. we need to be able to talk about how dangerous it is to be obese and morbidly obese. >> all right. benjamin butterworth, you're someone that self—identified as a larger woman of colour. how how does it make you feel that, doctor renee sits there and says , you know, sits there and says, you know, it's not my fault you're a fatty. you shouldn't be winning beauty competitions. >> well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder . and clearly. the beholder. and clearly. >> do you think that woman is beautiful, well , i don't know beautiful, well, i don't know her, so i can't behold she is. i think that, you know, it shouldn't just be about people having to look in one way. and she, you know, she looked beautiful. she was dressed up. she's clearly making a great

effort. and i think the idea that it's one thing to say it's unhealthy , clearly, there's unhealthy, clearly, there's a practical reality there. but to say that they can't be beautiful is quite. >> i didn't say that. >> i didn't say that. >> yeah, i want ella . ella, do >> yeah, i want ella. ella, do you think actually what renee is saying about the glorification of being larger is that is that a problem? >> but we seem to have just totally flip flopped from what it was when i was a kid. >> which or a young teenage girl, which was everybody was obsessed with anorexia and the use of that zero size. and now we're obsessed with people being fat, i think in a variety is the spice of life. the woman probably knows that she's a little bit heavy, as you do when you're more than a little bit heavy. and it's her business. she looks nice in the beauty contest. why are you so het up about it? >> all right. a range of views. >> all right. a range of views. >> because it's killing us. >> because it's killing us. >> well well well, well, right now she needs a. no, i'm kidding. of course, other drugs are available, and, i want to talk to you about the duke of westminster. now, if you haven't heard of him, he's a very, very wealthy man who put on quite a fabulous wedding. i think it's

safe to say, i think even the winner of miss alabama could have been invited. and it was interrupted by those green extremists. just stop oil. have a look at this. extremists. just stop oil. have a look at this . oh, no way, no a look at this. oh, no way, no! >> idiots ! >> idiots! >> idiots! >> so i absolutely agree with the people in the crowd that shouted you idiots, because i think that this is a disgraceful way to behave. you know, i don't care who it is. it could be anybody. but i think disrupting what is the most beautiful and important, potentially apart from having kids, moment of your life is a disgusting, despicable thing to do. but benjamin butterworth, we've got an exclusive here because it was actually you . actually you. >> it wasn't, it wasn't. but i am from cheshire, so it could have been. it could have been, but the wind stopped that from getting anywhere near the bride or anything, so nobody was actually disrupted. i just

think, though, i'm afraid that those i was watching videos on gb news yesterday of people that had, camped out from 6 am. to go and watch the duke and duchess of, of westminster get married. and i just think it's incredibly weird to be so deferential to people that, you know, own half of london, half of the country , and they don't of the country, and they don't know those people at all just because they're rich and aristocrats that you adore them. i think it's pretty lame people. >> everybody in chester and ice cream. cream. >> cream. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> what a man. >> what a man. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> he took the house off them 200 years before they had a chance to buy it. but he gave them an ice cream back. i mean, it really speaks volumes about modern britain, right? >> ella whelan. what have you got for us? >> well, speaking of slightly silly political moment, it's ed davey. >> remember him from the post office when we all didn't like him not so long ago ? has gone on him not so long ago? has gone on a charm offensive, doing silly stunts, falling off wakeboards . stunts, falling off wakeboards. and if we can just watch this clip playing tennis while trying to answer political questions . to answer political questions. >> and it's saturday morning, you're out playing tennis on the campaign trail in a park.

>> why? >> why? >> well, it's part of our , two >> well, it's part of our, two pronged message on the environment and b the health. >> so today we're talking about creating new national parks, people to have leisure in. >> we've also seen him flying down a water slides and trying to fall off a paddleboard. i mean, there's some kind of midlife crisis going on with ed davey. there he is coming down the water slide and it really that's what we were talking about just now with voting. it speaks to the idea that all you need to do with politics is make it a little bit more fun, put on a bit of a show, definitely dive off this paddleboard if you watch what's about to happen. that was definitely a fake fall andifs that was definitely a fake fall and it's just insulting. it's boring. put real politics to people, not this sort of showmanship. and we all still remember the post office ed davey when you get it. >> wow. i mean, he fell off in inverted commas that paddleboard five times. so it was obviously for the cameras. but has he not learned from boris johnson? on yeah. >> you've never done anything for the cameras before have you got stuck on that zip wire?

>> and that became an iconic image of the future prime minister. >> what have you got for us, ben? well, mine is the good news that four hostages who were taken by hamas from israel on the 7th of october have been released, they are no almog, andre and shlomi and, you know, it's been horrific in more ways than one. what we've seen in the middle east since october, but as well, one israeli soldier lost his life in this operation , lost his life in this operation, which i understand was incredibly difficult to carry off. and after all those images we've seen from the capturing and i've seen the original footage, sadly, of the attacks at the israeli embassy, as well as the tragedy that has unfolded in trying to resolve it. i think to have some hope in this situation is welcome. the world over. >> oven >>i oven >> i absolutely agree right now, folks . still ahead, you folks. still ahead, you wonderful viewers call the shots. you're in control as we answer all of your questions in ask the five. nothing is off

limits. well, within ofcom compliant reason, you're with the saturday five

gb news. welcome back to the saturday five. folks. it's time for this . five. folks. it's time for this. all right, let's see what you lovely viewers have got in for us. now. jackie has written in, and jackie says, if you had to pick what celebrity would you want to be, prime minister? well, i say to that one, ricky gervais. i think that would be hilarious. >> i think piers morgan, piers morgan yeah, i really like piers morgan. >> he blocked me on twitter about three years ago. >> what did you do to piss over covid anyone? >> i'm really not a celebrity follower , but the only person follower, but the only person i really like is michael palin. i think he's bring a kind of calm.

>> i thought you were going to say michael portillo, though, benjamin. >> i think philomena cunk. benjamin. >> i think philomena cunk . okay, okay. >> now, from rodger. rodger threatening if you could ban one thing, what would it be? benjamin butterworth as in, i would ban benjamin butterworth . would ban benjamin butterworth. benjamin what would you ban? >> oh, i'd ban those bikes that you hire and then dump on the pavement. they absolutely dry. i mean i like cycling, but i agree they just drive me mad. >> they are horrible. >> they are horrible. >> they're a menace. >> they're a menace. >> i would ban those, you know, when there's three manholes on the floor, i think it's bad luck if you walk over them. >> i always skip over the third one. >> yeah, i feel like we should fund therapy rather than elle edwards. ella, thanks for that contribution. >> i'm going to be really, dull and say i'd ban banning things because i think we ban too many things, and lime bikes. >> i'd ban smart phones for under 16 seconds. >> yes. no right.

>> yes. no right. >> we haven't got time to debate that one. this one's from ian. ian says if you didn't work in the media, what job would you have? >> oh, let me answer that. >> oh, let me answer that. >> all right then. >> all right then. >> go on. then you'd be a gp doctor . not if christopher doctor. not if christopher snowdon gets his way . i'll be. snowdon gets his way. i'll be. what would you be? >> well, i have another job in >> well, i have anotherjob in finance, so i would. i would keep my job in finance as well, and just probably do something similar to what i'm doing now. really. so that's not very fun answer for you. but yes, financial analyst is the other thing i would do. >> benjamin, you'd be up crap creek without a paddle. yeah i'd be on universal credit, i think. >> i mean, you know, look, i am a journalist by profession, a proper one, not just one that has opinions. and it's the job i always wanted to do. when i was always wanted to do. when i was a kid, i obsessively watched the news. i watched gmtv in the morning, in the media. yeah, i watched gmtv in the morning, and then i got home and watched richard and judy. so you'd watched daytime television? >> i could see. >>— >> i could see. >> so yeah, i think i'd just watch other people doing it, but no, maybe a teacher, but i mean, i hate children, but you know,

what would you do? >> you're also worthy. >> you're also worthy. >> i'd be a, you know, superstar , >> i'd be a, you know, superstar a , >> i'd be a, you know, superstar , a model or something. i don't know, you'd be. you're all like, you want to be nana. >> all right, well, we'll have to leave it there. thank you very much. brilliant guest tonight, doctor renee and ella whelan. next up it's leo kearse with the saturday night showdown. cheers for watching. we'll see you next week. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers . sponsors of boxt boilers. sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello. here's your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. the weather stays rather mixed across the uk over the next few days. a mixture of sunshine and showers and staying quite chilly for the time of year two. the cool conditions are all down to a northerly airstream low pressure anchored towards the north—east of the uk. high pressure out towards the west and that's generating that northerly flow across all parts. so looking at things in more detail for this evening and through the overnight period, we'll see showers towards the north and north—west of the uk. quite

blustery winds, so many of those showers rattling through quite quickly, the rain giving way to more persistent outbreaks as we head into the early hours of sunday, particularly across northern ireland and the southwest of scotland. whereas across england and wales the cloud tends to melt away so it will turn quite chilly here by sunday morning. in fact, in rural spots we could see temperatures into low single figures giving a touch of grass frost in 1 or 2 places. pretty unusual for this time of the yean unusual for this time of the year. looking at things in more detail for early on sunday and towards the north—east of scotland, we'll see a mixture of sunshine and showers, quite a brisk north westerly winds. then we run into an area of more persistent rain across northern ireland, southwest scotland, parts of north—west england, whereas elsewhere across england and wales it's set fair. quite a chilly start, but there'll be plenty of sunshine around and we hold on to some sunshine here, certainly through the morning on sunday before cloud starts to increase from the north, whereas across northern ireland we hold on to outbreaks of rain on and off through the day, and that rain slipping its way south eastwards across southwest scotland into northern england and eventually parts of north wales to further north. it's a case of sunshine and showers towards the far north—east of

the uk and staying chilly here with quite a brisk northerly breeze. temperatures generally no better than 12 to 14 celsius up to 20, though in london that's 68 in fahrenheit. as for monday , we'll see an unsettled monday, we'll see an unsettled picture across england and wales, certainly through the morning. outbreaks of rain gradually clearing away to the south and east, giving way to a mixture of sunshine and showers across all parts of the remainder of the day. and with that northerly breeze still in place, it's staying quite chilly for the time of year two. we hold on to a showery picture into the middle part of the coming week, and temperatures stay quite disappointing for the early part of june as well . early part of june as well. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. >> good evening. the top stories from the gb newsroom . new cctv from the gb newsroom. new cctv footage has been released showing tv doctor michael mosley

before he went missing on the greek island of symi. the footage shows the 67 year old walking by himself on symi marina on the 5th of june. an emergency helicopter arrived on the greek island today, the rescue effort continued amid soaring temperatures. michael's wife says his family will not lose hope. rishi sunak says it's a huge relief to see the return of hostages who were kidnapped in hamas's attack on israel on the 7th of october. noah argaman almog , magen, andrey kozlov and almog, magen, andrey kozlov and shlomi ziv were recovered by the idf. the prime minister posted on x, saying it's heartwarming to see the pictures of them reunited with their families . as reunited with their families. as the rescue operation took place in central gaza's al nusrat, in the heart of a residential neighbourhood, israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu visited the hostages and their families in hospital. he says he remains committed to bringing all of the hostages back home. the conservatives have pledged

to reform the benefits system if they win the general election , they win the general election, to halt the rising cost of welfare. they say the offer would help save around £12 billion a year by the end of the next parliament, by ensuring more working age people currently claiming benefits have a job. the number of out of the number out of work has risen sharply since the covid pandemic , driven by early retirement and long term health conditions . long term health conditions. meanwhile, labour has criticised the prime minister for dodging media questions on today's campaign trail as the fallout continued over his early return from d—day events in normandy . from d—day events in normandy. labour has set out plans to relieve pressure on prisons by unblocking the planning process and boosting the prison building programme. the party said. the prison estate is bursting at the seams due to inaction and mismanagement, they say, by the conservative party. earlier this yean conservative party. earlier this year, chief constables were urged to take fewer suspects into custody amid overcrowding .

into custody amid overcrowding. this followed plans to expand the