you manifesto. i'm asking you a simple question. was it enough to get your vote or not.7 and nigel farage has suffered yet another public assault. what is causing this toxicity in the election campaign, and how on earth do we stop it .7 and earth do we stop it.7 and yesterday's plan was schools feeding all the kids their breakfast. today's plan is schools organising teeth brushing. where is the line between parenting and the nanny state? and this absolutely horrendous case of 12 year olds hacking a lad to death with a machete has sparked a massive debate. today i'm asking you should those kids be named? some people say yes. don't even stop their name. their parents to others say absolutely not what say you and why ? all of that's say you and why? all of that's come and more. but first, let's get the 6:00 news with a legend thatis get the 6:00 news with a legend that is polly middlehurst.

>> michelle, thank you, and good evening to you. well, rishi sunak says he's not blind to the fact that people are frustrated with him. as he launched the conservative manifesto today, the prime minister promised a multi—billion pound package of tax cuts, including a reduction in national insurance . the in national insurance. the pledges amounting to a total of more than £17 billion in cuts by 2030. labour's called it a desperate wish list, but rishi sunak says he's the only leader with bold ideas. we will keep cutting taxes in the coming years , meaning that by 2027 we years, meaning that by 2027 we will have halved national insurance to 6. >> that is a tax cut, my friends. worth £1,300 to the average worker . average worker. >> rishi sunak well, responding to the conservative manifesto, the shadow chancellor, rachel reeves , stood up this afternoon reeves, stood up this afternoon in central london and said the conservatives plans will lead to

a second tory mortgage bombshell. >> the tories claim that they can make £12 billion in savings in welfare . but the truth is in welfare. but the truth is that claim is simply not credible . it is true that under credible. it is true that under the conservatives, the welfare bill has spiralled since 2019, spending on benefits to support disabled people and those with health conditions has risen in real terms by £20 million. and under rishi sunak as prime minister, the taxpayer has been losing £1 million every single hour to benefit fraud and error. thatis hour to benefit fraud and error. that is their record and there are savings to be made. but the idea that the conservatives proposals can save £12 billion is pure fiction . is pure fiction. >> rachel reeves well, the conservative manifesto also includes help for first time buyers with changes to stamp duty and what's being called a new and improved help to buy scheme. there is a pledge, too, to address a shortage of housing by building 1.2 million new homes, and there's also £8.3

billion to fix potholes and resurface roads. there'd also be a total ban on smartphones in schools and on immigration. there's a promise to get flights off the ground to rwanda every month . rishi sunak saying that month. rishi sunak saying that deterrent would be key to britain's migration plan, clearing the asylum backlog within six months and ending the use of hotels . use of hotels. >> that is why if you vote conservative on july the 4th, the flights remove . illegal the flights remove. illegal migrants will depart in july , migrants will depart in july, establishing the deterrent that will stop the boats . because will stop the boats. because when people know that if they try to come here illegally , they try to come here illegally, they won't get to stay, then they will stop coming . and if we are will stop coming. and if we are forced to choose between our security and the jurisdiction of a foreign court , including the a foreign court, including the echr, we will always choose our nation's security. >> rishi sunak well, jamie oliver says a ban on the sale of

energy drinks to young people would be a welcome relief for parents and teachers . the tv parents and teachers. the tv chef says he supports labour's plan , which would see children plan, which would see children under the age of 16 blocked from purchasing drinks with more than 150mg of caffeine per litre. studies have shown that high levels of caffeine among young people can cause sleep disturbances, as well as behavioural and mental health problems . as you've been problems. as you've been hearing, the home secretary, james cleverly, has condemned the attack on nigel farage, the reform party leader , after reform party leader, after objects were thrown at him dunng objects were thrown at him during a campaign event. this morning. police have arrested a 28 year old man on suspicion of pubuc 28 year old man on suspicion of public order offences . it's public order offences. it's understood a coffee cup and possibly building rubble narrowly missed mr farage, who was on top of the party's battlebus in barnsley in yorkshire. mr farage was addressing supporters there when he was interrupted by a crowd of hecklers. he said he'd been warned by police locally not to

get off that bus. international news and the hamas terror group has now accepted a ceasefire proposal that was passed by the united nations last night. the un security council backed the three phase plan, which includes the release of hostages and the withdrawal of israeli forces . a withdrawal of israeli forces. a senior member of hamas says the group will accept the deal and is now ready to begin negotiations over the detail . negotiations over the detail. and just lastly, the charity fundraiser for russ cooke, best known as the hardest geezer , has known as the hardest geezer, has set off on his latest running challenge, which will take him to germany to support the boys. he says in england's euro 2024 campaign, the 27 year old has left wembley stadium today in a bid to reach west germany by sunday in time to see the england men's squad in their opening fixture against serbia . opening fixture against serbia. following the 352 mile run. mr cooke will then run from city to city to follow the manager, gareth southgate , and the

gareth southgate, and the england team throughout the tournament . good for him. for tournament. good for him. for the latest news do sign up to gb news alerts, scan the qr code on the screen or go to gb news. carmelites . carmelites. >> thank you very much for that, polly. >> i'm absolutely intrigued to see the length of the so—called hardest geezers beard . by the hardest geezers beard. by the time he arrives in his destination. i will follow that with interest. my name is michelle dewberry and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight here on dewbs& co alongside me, my panel dewbs& co alongside me, my panel. we've got a new face to the programme tonight. the associate professor at the university of cambridge, james orr, alongside him, we've got the journalist and the author. ella whelan. good evening to both of you. we love a new face. you're very welcome tonight . and you're very welcome tonight. and you know the drill. all of you are very, very welcome , too. are very, very welcome, too. there is a lot i want to discuss with you this evening. you can reach me in all the usual ways. you can email gb views @gbnews.

com you can go on to the website and get in touch with me there. or of course you can tweet or text me. i can tell you a big topic that has got you all talking today, and i'm running a poll on it as we speak on twitter is whether or not you think those 12 year old kids that hacked that guy to death with a machete should be named or not really, really, really strong opinions on that one. i can tell you get your votes coming in on that poll. also reach me the usual ways and tell me what you think. i'll be reaching that topic very soon, but of course i will just start on the tories. they have released their election manifesto campaign at a racecourse , as you've just been racecourse, as you've just been hearing. let's cross live to christopher hope. christopher, good evening to you . polly good evening to you. polly middlehurst has done a great job of whipping us through, whizzing us through the tory, key points that we're going to debate them in just a second. what else has been going on on the campaign trail today ? trail today? >> yeah. very briefly. here is the manifesto launched today at civil silverstone racetrack in

northamptonshire. exactly you knew a lot about it. we've heard a lot of coverage recent weeks. a few surprises in there. national insurance for self—employed. and a few other areas. but that's about it really. largely known . not as really. largely known. not as bold as some might like it to be. certainly on the right of the party. but elsewhere in election land, we've had a poll out tonight from, from yougov showing that reform uk is now one point behind the tory party reform on 17 points, tories on 18 points, labour 38 points. so 20 points ahead of the tory party. that's that lead is in fixing cement, it seems, since rishi sunak became prime minister liberal democrats up for 15 points. this poll carried out monday tuesday after the lib dem manifesto. so we may see a bump of the tory party, from this manifesto dropping. we haven't yet seen, of course, reform uk's manifesto dropping, reform uk's manifesto dropping, reform uk's manifesto dropping, reform uk numbers, by the way, up, up reform uk numbers, by the way, ”p, ”p by reform uk numbers, by the way, up, up by 50% since nigel farage became leader . 45,000 members. became leader. 45,000 members. now that's worth an extra

£350,000 into into their bottom line. so the farage effect is taking effect. we haven't yet reached crossover when reform become the second biggest party, ahead of the tory party. that may happen, may not happen, but the trend looking like it could happen. labour party quite quiet today. we've had a push back from rachel reeves about this tory manifesto i showed you in there. it says there might be £17 billion worth of tax cuts. the tories claim labour are saying the sums don't add up and that the sums are built on big cuts to the benefits bill. by the end of the next parliament and closing what they call the tax gap. that's the difference between what the treasury, the treasury, the hmrc should pull in in tax and doesn't because of avoidance and evasion. so and they do they do claim politically that sunak is copying liz truss and just finally liberal democrats, again they've been attacking this , they've been attacking this, this manifesto saying that it's not worth the paper. it's written on. yeah, indeed. >> let me ask you this as well,

because you i know you've referenced this on social media as well. after rishi sunak's kind of speech and presentation, the first journalist that got to ask a question from broadcast media was yourself . many people media was yourself. many people very upset about that saying, i quote , it was a disgrace. that's quote, it was a disgrace. that's what gina miller said. what says you ? you? >> yeah. i don't know what jameela is on about now. she she obviously is. she leads a party called true and fair, and she wrote on twitter after i was called by the prime minister as the first question of all the broadcasts and all journalists, journalists . it was a great journalists. it was a great moment for gb news, i think, she said, it's disgraceful that sunak takes the first question from gb news, and i just said, i from gb news, and ijust said, i don't know what you're talking about. why is it disgraceful? i mean, people who attack this channel, frankly, michel, just don't watch it because they if they watched it, they wouldn't say these things. adam bolton, the former political editor at, sky news, said that sunak calls gb news first at manifesto launch and then feet. i don't know if that was meant to be an

inqu know if that was meant to be an insult or what, but i think the people who have a go at our journalism just aren't watching it, so it's their fault. >> indeed. i find it all ridiculous, and of course you will remember adam bolton. he was the fella on that really balanced episode of newsnight where they all sat around and reflected on how, in fact, we should all be closed down. and adam bolton was the chap that piped up and said, that we were disrupting the delicate broadcast ecology or whatever it was, how dare we? anyway, christopher, it's going to carry on very much for that, keep doing what you do. we very much appreciate it, james, what do you think? to the tories manifesto today? do you think it will win people over or not? >> well, there's that old phrase, isn't there, michelle, that you should, you campaign in poetry, but you govern in prose. and i think here we've got a manifesto that is just not just full of prose, no poetry, but full of prose, no poetry, but full of prose, no poetry, but full of really, really stodgy prose. the tories needed a game changen prose. the tories needed a game changer. they needed 2 or 3 clear binary pledges that would have broadened the gap between them and labour. that would have

helped to control the rise of reform . and that was targeting reform. and that was targeting issues that really matter to voters. so that's immigration. cost of living, nhs on immigration. there are a few pledges there, but it's really the idea is to hand control over to a quango. they could have gone for much more aggressive rhetoric on strasbourg, getting out of the european court of human rights. they could have maybe offered even. >> so, why do you think they didn't do any of this then? >> well, i don't know. i mean, maybe they're caught between there's a sort of pincer movement, i mean, but i'm slightly mystified by it. i mean, i remember back in october, you remember the party conference, and it was a real, you know, sunak had to do something. he had to pull something. he had to pull something out of the bag. it was probably a year out from the election campaign, and we're all waiting with bated breath. what's it going to be? a levels smoking, scrapping a railway line. and he blew it. and i think here although there are some eye catching details. i mean i like the fact that the tories are going to specify in the equality act sex means biological sex, i think this idea of family hubs is pretty, pretty sensible. they're recognising trade offs on net

zero. but the language, it's all very managerial. it's very gradualist. it's about controlling, strengthening that kind of thing. they needed something a lot more eye catching as i said, a lot more dramatic, a lot more binary. so that would that would cut through and lodge in voters minds. >> and i noticed when the mentioned this thing about sex, meaning biological sex, i noficed meaning biological sex, i noticed there was a massive round of applause. and i sat there and i thought, how pathetic in 2024 that you even need to sit there and make a statement that sex is biological and that that statement, gets some kind of round of applause as though it's this really bold, pioneering thing. i thought it was pathetic and quite embarrassing, but anyway. but it's. >> well, yeah. what a low bar. but it's also the case that i mean, somewhere in in his speech , sunak mentioned the fact that, you know, labour has done all this terrible stuff in relation to gender and not knowing what a woman is and not recognising that the conservative party brought in the whole self—id thing. it was i mean, it was theresa may's big thing, you know, changing the gender recognition act or whatever it was. so it's not some kind of

labour legacy , it's them. and labour legacy, it's them. and there's you feel a little bit bitter. we want them to say, recognise that you were wrong on this. but i mean , i think james this. but i mean, i think james has adequately explained how dull this manifesto is. but i think it's not just it's just also unambitious. if you take something around, you know, the echr you've got, it's not just the tory right who are who want to leave the echr. there's also a sort of general understanding that this is a genuine roadblock in determining democratic processes for immigration, sunak says. processes for immigration, sunak says . well, you know, i don't says. well, you know, i don't quite want to leave it, but if i'm forced to, maybe i will. so it's really weak on the net zero thing. again, a big issue, something he can make a big impact on. and their big announcement is that they will, roll back the expansion of the ulez. it's not the expansion of the ulez that's the problem. it's the ulez. that's the problem. it's no good just reducing the expansion . so all reducing the expansion. so all of it just feels really mealy mouthed. yeah, but hold on, because if you lived in one of those areas that was chock a block, with fumes and traffic

and all the rest of it, you might actually think that it was great that they were, slapping things like ulez and stuff like that on. i know, but they're just bringing it back from the from the ludicrous expansion out to the outer boroughs of london, but not to, you know, i mean, people still need to drive into central london. they're still as workmen, still need to get in and change people's pipes in their bathrooms in, you know, islington and in kensington. so, islington and in kensington. so, i mean, what the point i'm making is that it just it feels incredibly unambitious. and the reason why i think it's unambitious is because both sunak and starmer, what they both have in common is this idea that what the country needs is just stable , chaotic, dull. they just stable, chaotic, dull. they make a sort of a kind of victory out of being boring . so out of being boring. so obsession with tax, obsession with costing and the idea that anyone would do something bold, whether it's in relation to the economy or immigration or anything else, is sort of irresponsible. we don't do that because we're not irresponsible. and so what the conservatives did was they announced all their all of this. as christopher hope said, it's nothing new. they

announced all of this apart from the two of the national insurance and was meant to become the manifesto launch, a sort of reiteration of, you know, all of this. we're very sensible. it's all fine. he screwed that up with his d—day idiocy and so now they just look boring. and ideas like , craig boring. and ideas like, craig says, i cannot wait to see who gets the keys to number 10 on the 4th of july, because with all of these promises , we are all of these promises, we are all of these promises, we are all going to live like kings, he says. >> that is absolutely for sure, livy says, how many trees have been felled for all these manifestos of lies ? how can manifestos of lies? how can anyone preach to us about net zero and the planet? peter says, i'm a pensioner and i can't see anything in their manifesto. for me as a pensioner to vote for them. that's quite interesting because a lot of people would say that they've actually tried to really get the pension over on board with some of their ideas. so interesting to hear from you that it hasn't worked. mel stride he was speaking to us on gb news this morning. he loves it. let's have a listen to him. >> it's going to be very

positive for anybody out there in my party or not in my party, but this is the general electorate. anybody who wants to see taxes coming down, who wants to see greater financial security in the future, who wants to see us continue to grow the economy, we're now growing at the joint fastest rate of the countries in the g7. people that want to see that progress maintained rather than higher taxes under labour. >> let me ask you then, is there anyone that's on the fence and actually what you saw today in this manifesto as then made you think, actually, yes, the tories. i was wavering , but they tories. i was wavering, but they are now the party for me. they are now the party for me. they are the ones that are going to get my vote. i'd really like to hear from you about what it is that swung you to that kind of way of thinking. i know a lot of people will be still very unsure as to who they are going to give their vote to, anthony says michel. can we face the facts, please? compared to the labour party, the tories are definitely going to be better. lots of you making that point again, saying

essentially, manifestos are not even really worth the paper that they're printed on because so many people reverse ferret, on what they've promised in there. look, i want to talk to you after the break about the toxic city surrounding the election campaign. did you see today nigel farage was attacked for a second time? i've got to say , second time? i've got to say, credit actually to the police officers. did you see that? go on. absolutely. grab that fella. an arrest has been made. let's look at this in full after the break. you tell me, what do you think is causing this toxicity? and on earth do you reckon we fix it

hello, everyone. i'm michelle dewberry with you till seven here on dewbs & co. alongside here on dewbs& co. alongside with the associate professor at the university of cambridge , the university of cambridge, james orr, and the journalist and author ella whelan. we were just talking about the conservative manifesto. steve says , yes. the national service

says, yes. the national service for 18 year olds is a thing that will swing his vote. he says it will swing his vote. he says it will do the next generation some good, alissa, is that how you say your name? you say it. you like their manifesto? we need to judge sunak on what he has done for our country, not what previous tory leaders have done , previous tory leaders have done, she says, i have hoped that we're better off with sunak than starmer, that is for sure. but lesley says no matter what, sunak says, i can't help but think, well, what have you done about it over the last 14 years? but what about alyssa's point there? she's saying judge the man by his record, not those that went before him. can he convince you to do that though? thatis convince you to do that though? that is $1 million question, was it radical enough? that's what we've just been discussing, james, in the break, you just said then perhaps one idea is they could have scrapped the. what was it you wanted to scrap the gender recognition act 2004? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and be bold basically, and say what i mean at that point when you're 20, 20 points behind andifs when you're 20, 20 points behind and it's an issue that a lot of people care about, but that when you try and explain it, oh,

we're going to try and amend this definition of this protected characteristic under section four of the 2010 act. >> it's just not going to cut through. so you need something big and bold. and i think i think for speaking, you know, gender critical feminists, this movement is so exciting. that's opened up in the uk over the last few years. we're really leading the world in, in the sort of trying to slow down the trans train, something like it needs a brexit moment, you know, it needs a horizon, an organising policy horizon. and i think repealing that, it would, it would have really sort of set the cat among the pigeons and, and sort of, sort of sharpened the boundaries of the cultural. >> well, let me throw that open to you at home. how much of an issue is that for you? could that have been the thing that swung it for you? if they'd come out and said, you know what, we're just going to rip that whole thing up. a man is a man, a woman is a woman. and that is the end of that. would that have been perhaps something that got your vote? get in touch and let me know. but look, one of the other big stories of the day is what's happened to nigel farage again. he's been assaulted for the second time whilst out on his campaign trail. look, he was

out on an open top bus, i might actually see if i can bring the sound up. let me get the sound up on this clip. if i can. stop so i'll just describe it as well, in case you're listening on the radio, you've got some fellow, you've got nigel farage doing his thing on his campaign open top bus. you've got people in the street that are supporting him. you've got then some fellow who kind of gets into what is like a building area really, and starts getting items out of what to me looks like a bin and starts chucking them at nigel. i mean, people have speculated on what those items are, but there's been an arrest made, so i kind of want, indulge that speculation. but anyway, credit where it's due because people kind of grabbed him, yanked him out of there, and the police grabbed him and arrested him. now this is the second time this has happened to nigel farage, but of course, there's been other examples. we had a tory candidate the other day. she's saying the excrement has been pushed through her letterbox. there's been lots of other examples from people , you

other examples from people, you know, it's not just nigel farage. what do you think is at the heart of this, james? >> it's very troubling. you know, last week it was a milkshake, this week, a piece of rubble. what's it going to be next week? we had an mp murdered in cold blood at his constituency surgery. what, two years ago, sir david amess a few months ago. mike freer, who's a constituent, who's got a constituency , i think, in constituency, i think, in islington, he's now stepped down because of islamists and islamo leftists threatening to burn his constituency surgery down. so it's a real it's a real pattern . it's a real it's a real pattern. and the response has always is never been adequate enough to send the kind of strong signal that would that would prevent these things from happening again, that would at least sort of deter people from acting like this. >> i do just want to say mike fri—yay, it's not islington, it's golders green. sorry, finchley, but it's very it's london based , notwithstanding london based, notwithstanding that, ella, what do you think? >> i think i agree with you, james, but i think we need to be careful because the difference between what happened to dave david amess and the attacks

that, nigel farage has suffered last week and this week. the difference is, sir david amess killer was an islamist, and it was a very specific and what happened to mike fri—yay? that's a very specific threat that's happening to labour, to tories and labour politicians. obviously wes streeting and others, not violently, but were had a lot of quite unpleasant pressure put on them outside their homes and things like that . what happened with nigel farage seems to be attention seeking morons . i mean, in that seeking morons. i mean, in that clip farage was on a bus . clip farage was on a bus. there's actually a peaceful protest against him going on in the background. someone holding up a sign saying immigrants are welcome. all fine . he he's he's, welcome. all fine. he he's he's, you know, has that a lot. and he says, i'm used to it. that's absolutely fine. but it's an individual , absolutely fine. but it's an individual, lone individuals who decide to do this kind of thing. so when we talk about toxicity, we it's important we should have the discussion. but i think actually farage has set the tone for us not letting this turn into a moral panic, because whether you agree with him or not, politically , you really not, politically, you really have to give it to him that he is committed to being a

politician, much like sir david amess that gets out there , isn't amess that gets out there, isn't afraid. he doesn't let any of the attacks stop him . and he the attacks stop him. and he says, he says, actually, i'm quoting him here. i'm best at going out, meeting people, talking to them, debating with them. it's what i do . and so them. it's what i do. and so i think that, you know, when we ask, what should we do about this? i actually think farage should inspire other politicians to be more brave about getting out there and to not fear attacks. >> let's look at how farage, nigel farage responded to this then, because he's been speaking out . out. >> i tell you what i'm worried about. let me just make sure it's the right one. if you think about this, a week after we commemorate d—day, which was done so that we could live in a democracy where we can agree to disagree, we can be very passionate, but indeed agree to disagree. what we've now got is a mob that wants to close down all debate , a mob that had all debate, a mob that had prepared to use violence to achieve their goals , and that achieve their goals, and that for a democratic country is very, very worrying indeed. be okay. me i'm used to it. i don't

like it. of course not. >> because this is stopping me doing what i want to do. >> you know, i'm at my best going out, meeting people and talking to them, having debate with them, you know, going around the pubs or whatever. i do . and these violent youngsters do. and these violent youngsters are stopping me. it's very, very frustrating . frustrating. >> it didn't hit you this time. >> it didn't hit you this time. >> it didn't hit you this time. >> it didn't hit me this time. but, yeah, i mean, you do wonder to what lengths these people will go. >> you see, i think that's absolutely disgraceful that he goes about his business and is assaulted in that way. and i do just want to say credit to the police for actually arresting the individuals involved, what i found interesting, the individuals involved, what i found interesting , though, is found interesting, though, is this kind of narrative. so we saw it yesterday , when people saw it yesterday, when people became aware then of the outcomes of the european parliament results, people were immediately rushing out everywhere talking about far right. this and, hard right that. and, you know, i saw twitter absolutely swamped with nazi this and hitler that and

1930s. there's this whipping up that if you reject many of the policies that are foisted onto people and forced onto people, now your net zeros your gender, lunacy. if you reject it, open borders and all the rest of it, then somehow you are this far right nazi. and that is one of the things that i think is whipping up things like this. >> well, yeah, there's a huge amount of sort of, hyperbole around the, around discussions, particularly about immigration. >> i mean, obviously in europe there are some there are parties and groups that i would call far right, whether it's the afd or, you know, to a certain extent , you know, to a certain extent, le pen, even though she's tried to soften herself a bit, you know, in relation to some pretty nasty anti—immigrant stuff out there, which i would vehemently disagree with, you know, nigel farage is softer than all of that. but obviously i also disagree with his position in immigration. but the it doesn't matter even if he's far right, though. do you know, i think he's, you know , pretty right. if he's, you know, pretty right. if that's putting it in a nicer

way. but the but the point is, even if i did think he was ultra conservative far right and politically objectionable , there politically objectionable, there is no excuse for me turning that view of him into a violent act. or you know that this is what i think we have to get better at making a clear distinction between political debate and words and free speech. and, you know, whether that's doing stupid things like calling everyone a nazi, which is pointless and silly or engaging in a silly . in a silly. >> i think that those words have meaning. and when you start calling someone you disagree with politically or they're a nazi, they're it's done deliberately to try and shame people and to try and create a collective against that individual , collective against that individual, and it whips people up into a frenzy. it's awful. i think you do have to be. >> you do have to be mindful of the language that you use because words have impact. that's what i mean. i'm a journalist, i know that, but i think we've got to be careful in making direct links between i mean, farage has called this a left wing , a violent left wing

left wing, a violent left wing mob. we don't know whether that guy was in that red hoodie was left wing or not. but there's the arguments against saying, oh, this is whipping up a certain kind of violence, what governments and others people use to censor speech , to say, use to censor speech, to say, you shouldn't say that because someone might throw a rock. i think we've got to be careful there. you know, farage is a great defender of free speech. as it happens. he's quite brave in all of this. he keeps going out. he says he wants to debate people. let's keep with that rather than going down. the kind of moral panic. >> james was saying this in loads of ways. i mean, i'm even loved to even mention this because i think the best thing you can do with some of this stuff is to ignore them because they want the oxygen of publicity, but you've got all of these people now that seem to think that they can do whatever they want, because they believe in their cause. so you've seen these pillocks today. they've gone up to the king's portrait and done what they've done onto that. you see, very recently, people going around smashing up banks, spraying them with red paint because they don't like some of the things that's going on there. you've got people at universities doing protests and all the rest of it locking themselves into halls and all themselves into halls and all the rest of it. people do seem to think that they can do

whatever they want. >> yeah, i think that's absolutely right. and the law is not or at least law enforcement. and the government is not signalling strength on these sorts of issues. of course , free sorts of issues. of course, free speech is important. i've, you know, got scars on my back and various from various free speech battles. but there got to be clear bright red lines which when they're crossed, proper action needs to happen. so when it tips into violence as we've seen in recent weeks, or when it tips into criminal damage, as we see with just stop oil protesters, there should be a really robust response . i'm not really robust response. i'm not sure i've not followed the story closely, but i don't know if the milkshake girl, the only fans girl, was arrested and charged. she was arrested in charge. but i mean, i think there should be a clear public statement that should have been widespread condemnation across the political divide . actually, i political divide. actually, i saw 1 or 2 labour politicians, to their credit, getting up and condemning it unequivocally like yvette cooper. but there were a lot of people, a lot of people on the left who who didn't and who effectively said, this is yvette cooper now look as well, she has spoken out against this one today in yorkshire. james

cleverly spoken out about it as well. so to be fair, to and give credit where it's due, people are speaking out about this and this is what it needs, because often people will think they are acting on behalf of or, you know, the opposite side of the political spectrum, right? >> good and good for yvette coopen >> good and good for yvette cooper. she's come out strongly again here. and look, ella's right. you know, one way of looking at it you could say is looking at it you could say is look at these. just there's just one off incidents. is this a crazy moron, this sort of person who doesn't like farage. and that's true. but when you've got a kind of sort of demonising rhetoric in the public square and, and you've got the sort of implicit permission from people who ought to know better, even though they're free to say whatever they want. yes. then you are going to start to see these, these events happening, especially when there's no clear when they're consequence free actions , so yeah, it's a real actions, so yeah, it's a real concern . i would have thought concern. i would have thought that the least the government could do at this point is give nigel farage some round the clock security until just as all home secretaries and former home secretaries do , and the prime

secretaries do, and the prime minister has until at least until the election . until the election. >> the thing about that, though, is it's sort of hard to argue against security for someone if they have been physically attacked. but i think the powerful thing that farage is doing is saying and again, it's much like what sir david amess always said is that i don't want always said is that i don't want a barrier. i don't want to be this kind of, you know, someone wrapped in cotton wool away from the public. you know, sunak does a when he does a meeting with a public, it's like completely staged. everything is, you know, so orchestrated. it's so fake. and the appeal that farage has , and the appeal that farage has, whether it's whether you believe in it or not, is that he does go out and talk to people. and, you know, he does he he goes that clacton meeting , for example, clacton meeting, for example, people were sneering at it because it had a guy with a speaker on his head. but i mean, that's what that's what real politics is for. a lot of people. >> i mean, it doesn't stop him going out and meeting people. i mean, he's had round the clock. he's been paying for his own bodyguards for the best part of a decade. so he's got them anyway. it doesn't stop him going out, but it just, you know, it seems reasonable that if a politician is under threat and, and there's been more than,

you know, been a pattern of violence against him, then it seems pretty, pretty reasonable for the government to lots of you in some robust way. >> lots of you getting in touch about this situation. of course , about this situation. of course, many people are concerned by this, some of you pointing out the fact that many people seem to think it was almost funny when nigel farage had a milkshake thrown in his face. i've got to say, anyone that thinks that's funny just because you don't like the person you want to try standing in public and having an unknown liquid chucked into your eyes and your face, and then see how funny you find , i suspect you might change find, i suspect you might change your view, dickey says the words so—called far right are just now used to try and silence the debate . people have decided debate. people have decided they've had enough of many policies that have been put on to us now, and our voices must be heard, tony says, isn't it ironic that since brexit, europe is swinging to the right and the uk is swinging to the left, graham says this so—called far right, the words he feels are misused. he says he sees it as the green shots of sanity , the

the green shots of sanity, the green shoots of sanity sprouting up, he says, and not before time, sally says, can i just say the rise of what she calls the far right in europe is a huge concern to her, keep your thoughts coming in after the break. nanny states. where is the line now ? you're going to be the line now? you're going to be giving all kids, free breakfast at schools. according to the labour party. toothbrushing, and so on. and so forth. where are the parents in this? where's the line? tell me

hi there. michelle dewberry with you tall seven. james orr and ella whelan remain alongside me. let's cut straight to the chair, shall we? where is the line when it comes to parenting? between what you should be doing at home and what the state should be doing? reason, i ask. you'll be familiar with the fact yesterday .laboun familiar with the fact yesterday . labour. we're talking about perhaps all children getting free breakfast at school. so now school is going to be feeding them all sorts of day. now

looking at actually supervised toothbrushing . i mean, where are toothbrushing. i mean, where are the parents in this l.a? >> well , they're not trusted by >> well, they're not trusted by laboun >> well, they're not trusted by labour, that's for sure. i mean, given kids a few extra bits of toast at school, no one really argue with that. sounds like a very nice thing. but the messaging behind it on a lot of people would argue with that . people would argue with that. >> a lot of people. >> a lot of people. >> what i mean is what i mean is, you know, it's not a removal of choice, is it? but the message behind it is that parents can't be trusted to feed their kids. parent can't be trusted to brush their kids teeth or watch what their kids are buying. in relation to this sort of proposed ban on energy drinks. and it just is so undermining for parental authority. a good parent is a confident parent and one that feels that they are in charge and is supported by a state to do the things that they think are right for their kid. and from the blair years onwards, the labour party has has bit by bit chipped away at that parental authority and confidence and, you know, through kind of messaging and breathing down people's necks and these kind of, nanny state

as you put it, policies made parents feel like they , they parents feel like they, they don't know how to do this thing. raising a kid. raising a kid is difficult. it's hard work, but it's not rocket science , you it's not rocket science, you know, particularly when they're young. it might get a bit trickier when they're in their teen years . but, you know, there teen years. but, you know, there is this idea that we need to have expert intervention at every level to raise a healthy new generation. that's nonsense. >> but if you don't know that you need to feed your own kid, then you probably shouldn't be able to look after children, if that. if you're telling me that that. if you're telling me that thatis that. if you're telling me that that is the level , of that. if you're telling me that that is the level, of a that. if you're telling me that that is the level , of a lack of that is the level, of a lack of knowledge that goes on around parents because many people you said people might not have a problem with that. yesterday when people were talking about this, lots of you got in touch. it's why i did this topic tonight, because one of my viewers got in touch and said, but michelle, you know, that particular viewer, he didn't have a child. he'd made the decision not to have children. so then he's asking why am i then responsible with my taxes for paying for the feeding of all children, irrespective of whether or not their parents are millionaires or whatever? there was a lot of strength of feeling

that that wasn't the right approach. james, where are you on it? yeah, well, i mean, i know when the shadow minister responsible for the breakfast policy was interviewed yesterday, she wasn't able to come up with any of the numbers at all. >> in fact, it doesn't seem like it had been carefully costed in any way at all, there's i mean , any way at all, there's i mean, to her credit, i think rachel reeves has been pretty clear eyed about how little money there is to spend. so it's a little bit alarming when these big uncosted policies are thrown out like this , you know, we joke out like this, you know, we joke about the nanny state, but what could be more literally nanny state than, helping kids to than the state intervening to make sure kids are brushing their teeth , i mean, i agree with ella teeth, i mean, i agree with ella that we need to be we need to trust parents and we need to trust parents and we need to trust families. but i don't think labour would be to their credit. i don't think they'd be in their defence. i don't think they'd be coming out with these policies if there wasn't a real problem to be addressed, i was speaking to someone the other day who was saying that 90% of teachers, primary school teachers, primary school teachers are , have had teachers are, have had experience of five, six, seven

year olds coming to they're coming to their classes in nappies. so you know, this is a there's a real, you know, basic, rudimentary skills, life skills for come on early years. >> if you don't potty train your own child then that is on you. that's laziness . yes that's right. >> but but what are we going to do about it? you can't just say, look, you're lazy, you've got to be. >> what you would do is say, you can't. you can't go to school in a nappy. so you've got to sort that out. as a parent. >> i mean, i really do think this is this is labour's legacy because you have to remember that, for example , the sure that, for example, the sure start program, that was the sort of blair's big flagship childcare kind of child development issue , was a little development issue, was a little bit of nursery provision and that was sort of fine and welcome for some people. but the messaging of sure start was that families shouldn't be allowed if families shouldn't be allowed if families are allowed alone, left alone, to make decisions about their how their kids are raised, discipline or whatever else, then kids will turn out terrible . and that has led to a situation in which parents feel like they don't know what they're doing. i hang out with women in mums, in playgroups,

and they're terrified by every decision they have to make, and that hasn't just happened overnight or it hasn't happened by accident. or, you know, people , kids turning up in people, kids turning up in school and nappies is, you know, partly because the pandemic was such an extremely corrosive come off. >> it doesn't wash with me. i had a baby in the pandemic. >> you know, i think it at least it contributed to some of this issue seller . come it contributed to some of this issue seller. come on. it contributed to some of this issue seller . come on. well, issue seller. come on. well, i just don't accept that there's a sort of a generation of young parents who are just lazy or getting it wrong for no reason. there are there are, there are, you know, the things that we do in society and the policies we implement have effects on people. >> well, you guys will have a strong opinion on that. dan wootton i'll say your name. you're saying you can't believe that the labour party think that people that are just under 16 are not old enough and sensible enough to consume fizzy energy drinks, but a couple of weeks later, they're apparently mature enough to vote. colin says. where are all these new dental appointments coming from? no one can get in to see a dentist, christopher says. rather than nanny state teeth cleaning lessons for children and mental health support, how about guaranteeing one hot meal per

day for each oap who has paid fully all of their dues from working all of their lives? mark says there's no such thing as a free breakfast. why should we be paying free breakfast. why should we be paying for everyone's children? what do you think? speaking of children , these 12 year olds children, these 12 year olds that have hacked someone with their machete, should they be named or

break. hi there. i'm michelle dewberry till 7:00, alongside with the professor of young at the university of cambridge, james orr. and the journalist and author ella whelan . look, one of author ella whelan. look, one of the most shocking, stories come to light in terms of these two young 12 year old boys that have been found guilty . vie of been found guilty. vie of hacking a 19 year to old death. i mean, they had one of them had a machete , and just when you. a machete, and just when you. i won't go into the details because it's tea time and children might be watching, but it's absolutely horrendous , i'm

it's absolutely horrendous, i'm asking a simple question. james should these 12 year olds be named, my intuition is no, they shouldn't. >> and we've basically got two issues here. one is the age of criminal responsibility. now in england and wales that's ten. in scotland it's 12. so they qualify. they were 12 year olds. yeah. but there's also concerns about children's privacy . and about children's privacy. and that's a sort of separate area of law. and i think there are there's a good case to be made that the, the importance of securing making sure that they're secure when they come out. suppose they get 20 years, 25 years, they'll be coming out of prison in their late 30s. and if with with a story that's had this much media attention, there's a real question as to whether or not they can return to ordinary life. >> oh, come off it. >> they have to go through all the expensive witness relocation programs and change their change their identities. what benefits come from naming them if they're treated by by the law as , as treated by by the law as, as children for the purposes of their privacy, but they're treated , unlike in many other treated, unlike in many other countries at the age of 12, as

morally responsible adults. and that's pretty good. >> i mean, i have very strong opinions on this. completely disagree with you, but, ella, your thoughts? >> i think there definitely shouldn't be named , and not just shouldn't be named, and not just because of a practical, you know , important, practical question about when they leave and the kind of, you know, living a normal life and the practicalities of that. but because, you know, either we do believe that there is a difference between children and adults or we don't. and i think we do . and that means that they we do. and that means that they do not have the rational capabilities that you develop when you become an adult, even a young adult. >> oh spare me. >> oh spare me. >> no it's not, it's you know, i think there has to be a balance struck between these kids having taken an action and feeling the consequences of that. i mean, we talk about that in relation to knife crime, but also if we, you know, we don't believe that we should just lock people up and throw away the key. we do believe in rehabilitation. >> no, i do well, i think you should. well, i believe very strongly in rehabilitation and the idea that human beings can change. >> right. and that they can change for the better. and if you can't and if we if we give

up on the idea that we can change, we can't change a 12 year old, then humanity. yeah. >> i'm not on board with that gone out the window to just just take a second to bring it, inject a smither of sanity into this panel because i'm not insane about. >> no, but we're talking about 12 year olds and whether or not they've got this rational conscience and all the rest. you know , i mean, i would say much know, i mean, i would say much lower than 12, actually, you know, that if you're wandering around with a machete down your trousers and then you are hacking people to death, you know that that is absolutely wrong. not only is it wrong, it is a criminal act. you know that. >> of course you know that. it's well, you hope that you know that it's wrong. but the what you don't understand necessarily as a 12 year old is the ability to control impulse, to understand that the long term consequences of what you're doing. i mean, we know that these two kids work had a kind of glorification and a glamorising of weapons. it was actually a lot of their actions, in a perverse way, were

extremely childish. this altercation happened because of bumping into someone. you know, all of that has to make you think this isn't the same level of criminal activity as someone who plans a murder, right? >> so for the record, i absolutely think that these kids should be named because i believe in the principle of accountability. so if you want to walk around acting like the big i am with machetes in your pants and you want to think that you're enacting some kind of video game on the streets , video game on the streets, that's up to you. there are consequences for that. and one of those consequences should be accountability, i absolutely think that there should be locked up for a very long time. i don't buy into all of this. or you can rehabilitate this and you can rehabilitate this and you can rehabilitate that. i would say people's names like jon venables. what about him? the guy , the child that tortured the guy, the child that tortured james bulger. the guy, the child that tortured james bulger . what about him? james bulger. what about him? how did his rehabilitation go? >> well, obviously it can fail, but you have to try. >> just to be clear, i'm with you, michel. the point of prison is to punish whether it achieves rehabilitation or not. and in this case, they're going to probably get, i hope, a very,

very long sentence. it may be that it should be adjusted to take account of the fact that they're 12, not 16 or 20, but nevertheless, i think they should be punished properly. i think that is that long prison sentence will be the accountability that they need. my accountability that they need. my worry is that by naming them, there's a kind of there's the there's a kind of there's the there's the kind of spectre of vigilantism. and what exactly are we gaining out of naming these people, giving, you know, and an element of accountability? >> why should you be able to roam around in society hacking people to death and then kind of languishing under this cloud of anonymity because because they're children, but they're not acting like children . not acting like children. they're acting like barbarians, but they are children . but they are children. >> and it comes back. it comes back to the fact that murderers i mean, whether it's discussions about votes at 16 or anything like that, we treat children and adults differently. and this has to be the in this case. look, i can tell you all now, i've been running a poll on twitter or x, in my mind, anyway, i've got to say, the majority of you see

sense 94.1% of you said that yes, they should be named, 5.9% of you said no, they should not. >> let me ponder you. you can ponder james's question then, by naming them, what would you like to achieve? you can sleep on that for now. i'm out of time. camilla is up next, thanks to the panel to and you at home. nanites >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hi there, and welcome to the latest update from the met office for gb news. >> there will be fewer showers dunng >> there will be fewer showers during the next 24 hours with an increased chance of clear spells, particularly in the west as higher pressure moves in. but we keep the northerly air flow so we keep that cool air with us and as a result, where we do see clearing skies overnight, it is going to turn fairly chilly. the clearest skies will be across central western scotland, parts of northern ireland and western

england and wales, although still the possibility of a shower or two running into west wales and cornwall. there'll also be some showers into the northeast of scotland, eastern england, where there will be more cloud ten celsius here, but where we've got the clear skies further west, the potential for the mid single figures by dawn. nevertheless, it's a beautiful start to the day for much of central scotland through the highlands, grampians, western isles as well. we've got this cloud cover into the northern isles and the far north—east of the mainland, giving a few light showers in places. northern ireland, though mostly bright and dry. first thing likewise for northern england, a thicker cloud there for the east of england into the south—east. 1 or 2 showers about first thing. likewise for west wales and cornwall . but these are the cornwall. but these are the exceptions, i think, for the vast majority, blue skies and patchy cloud around first thing, but mostly dry now as temperatures rise through the morning, there's always the possibility of the odd shower breaking out once again across eastern england. but for many it's a fine and bright day still

on the cool side, but the winds won't be quite as brisk , so won't be quite as brisk, so i think it's good to feel a bit more pleasant. temperatures of 18 celsius, perhaps 19, in the south, mid teens generally elsewhere. another chilly start to the day on thursday. plenty of fine weather. first thing, but in the west we've got the cloud building, the wind picks up, outbreaks of rain push into northern ireland, western england and wales by lunchtime and in the east it turns cloudy by the afternoon as well. that rain clears to showers on friday and into saturday. >> it looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of

gb news. >> good evening, and welcome to vote 2024. >> the people decide with me. camilla tominey. on tonight's show, we're going to give you every cough and spit of the tory manifesto. we're going to get

the reaction to the conservatives plans for migration , for tax, for housing migration, for tax, for housing in the next hour. i'm going to be hearing from former chancellor kwasi kwarteng . we're chancellor kwasi kwarteng. we're also going to be discussing nigel farage under attack again. i'll be speaking to a personal protection expert about politicians safety while out on the campaign trail. politicians safety while out on the campaign trail . plus, we'll the campaign trail. plus, we'll bnng the campaign trail. plus, we'll bring you the latest after hunter biden becomes the first sitting us president's son to be convicted of a crime. that's all coming up on vote 2024. the people decide . don't forget you people decide. don't forget you can join the conversation by heading to gbnews.com/yoursay for all of those comments on those subjects, we want to hear what you think of the tory manifesto. but first, let's get the latest news headlines with polly middlehurst .

polly middlehurst. >> camilla,